And That's Why We Drink - E140 Psychedelic Conversations and the Frogman's Lazy River

Episode Date: October 6, 2019

We're officially into Spook-tober! And we're advocating for fingerprinting every "pillar of the community" just in case! We're also bringing the creep factor with the Loveland Frogmen of Ohio, which may or may not be frozen iguanas? Meanwhile, Christine covers the wild tale of the Rotherham Shoe Rapist and the advances in familial DNA that played a role in his capture. Also please congratulate Christine on her latest Stardew Valley child and tune in to hear who she named him after... and that's why we drink toilet wine!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Try Zip Recruiter for free when you go to ZipRecruiter.com/drinkFor a limited time, thredUP is offering an extra 30% off your first order when you go to http://thredup.com/drink Go to Rothys.com/drink to get your new favorite flats! Visit http://ritual.com/ATWWD to start your ritual today

Welcome to our first real episode in October spooky ooky season. Spooky ooky season! Spocky October! Nope, never mind. Look at this. What does it say? It's the great pumpkin sweatshirt that I got from ModCloth. It says the great pumpkin is coming. It's my great pumpkin sweatshirt that i got from modcloth says the great pumpkin is coming it's my favorite fall sweatshirt you want to learn today about linus what's that is that linus i think so yes his last name is van pelt well that's cute why on earth did you learn

that today it's noon like where did you learn this on wikipedia i don't know how i got there god um we spend our time very wisely speaking of things i found online i would well i didn't find it online but i gathered uh i just wanted i just want to tell everyone i want everyone to be as involved as christina's in my personal life oh great and run away guys run for the hills before trust me it's too late she knows better so she's telling you uh i wanted to announce to everyone my top 10 that i sent oh god here we go so it was 3 a.m i got bored so i decided i was going to create my top 10 celebrity list of all the uh women i would gladly marry um so here it

is christine's already heard it but i would like you're gonna say christine's number three on here i was like yeah that sounds about right she's actually 11 out of 10 barely almost made it i'm working hard to reach that list uh i do want your opinion though because i like your take on these things gave you my opinion you might have changed them here we go i just want people to know like you know what's going on in my heart uh obviously i'm in love with brie larson we know so we know that um this is a no particular order by the way and the next one is uh reese witherspoon sure good answer who i've loved since i was six years old so that's nothing new part of her little book club love it rachel mcadams i believe is timeless she's like one of the most beautiful people on in the world she can

do no wrong she really is gorgeous gal gadot duh duh um elizabeth olsen who plays scarlet witch sure um she's pretty great jennifer anderson another timeless babe god uh amelia clark oh yeah that's a good one emma watson always timeless and then these two ended up making it on the list that night, although they are interchangeable with a few others. So at 3 a.m. that night, I picked Megan Fox and Hayley Atwell, who plays Peggy Carter, Captain America's girlfriend. But I also am a big fan of Letitia Wright and Laverne Cox. Sorry, you actually hit 10, so. Okay. But I realized what all of them have in common. What? Because they all look a little different in some ways, but I figured out... What?

Okay, so here's the combo. Here's the secret recipe to winning my love. They all have a great jawline. Uh-huh, important. They all have the trifecta combo of good eyebrows, can pull off dark red lipstick, and have the ability to smolder. Mm, smoldering. Smoldering. They have the hourglass waist to hip ratio, and they all play characters that are confident women.

Okay, good. So I've hit maybe not one of those. I maybe had some decent eyebrows in high school. So that's about as far as I got on that list. That's as far as you go. Sorry. I'm never going to make it on Em's list. And that jawline?

Forget about it, Christine. Listen, when I was younger, people used to make fun of my jawline and say I looked like the guy from AFI because it was so pronounced. Because I always have had kind of an aggressive jawline. Look, apparently that's what I want. I am telling you. Okay, so that's one more check on the list. All right, there you go.

You're closer up there to Megan Fox now. Finally. It's all you. All right. So that's one more check on the list. All right. There you go. You're closer up there to Megan Fox now. Finally. It's all you've ever wanted. Listen, I can't even count the number of guys that I've either had crushes on or dated who were just obsessed with Megan Fox. I feel like that's the most R generation high school boy thing ever. I know. I know.

I know. I have always tried to live up to Megan Fox. And guess what? Here I am doing a free radio show in a sweatshirt with no bra on. So you know what? I think I've made it pretty far. And you have at least one thing in common with Megan Fox, which is you're sometimes confident.

Including right now. This is the peak of my confidence. Anyway, I only wanted to share that because I've been sharing that list with everybody. I think you were one of the first people I texted. Oh, wow. I feel special now. It was 3 a.m. and you didn't respond for some reason. So I kept sending it to everyone.

So I just thought everyone else should be involved as well. I'm really happy for you. Anyway, let me know if you end up finding your top 10 list. I'm sure people would want to hear that. Yeah, I actually started thinking about it when you sent me that. So I'm going to work, like, refine it. Do you have a main person? Not really.

It's been, I feel like it's changed a lot. I need to like really think about it. Well, obviously. It's, listen. It's your waist to hip ratio. I just can't control myself. Listen, I play a character of confidence. Well, that's for sure.

I also wanted to add before we get started that um uh so we posted our listener episode on youtube and i had made i was very proud of my like halloween logo that i made and i sent it to my brother like before the video posted and he was like why does it say thot and i was like what do you mean and he's like that pumpkin makes it look like an o instead of and that's why we drink and And I was like, oh, shit. And so then I was like, well, maybe it'll be funny. I don't know. And so I posted it with the caveat in the description that we understand.

And that's why we drink. Is that how you say it? I thought it was though. No, thought. Oh. Two mistakes in one, Christine. I'm a thousand. I'm sorry.

No, thought. Thoughties. I thought it was. Okay, whatever. Listen, listen I don't know but everyone keeps commenting about it I'm like I know I put it in the show description I'm sorry we're gonna pretend I did it on purpose to be funny if you don't know what that word is go look at urban dictionary because I'm not here to explain it to you I'm too old I'm almost 30 leave me alone so I'm sorry but I'm not changing it because it took me way too long to figure out how to do Photoshop. So that's that. I mean, look, I've always wanted to be associated with thoughts in the title of my...

I thought it was... I promise it's not. Fuck. Okay, well, obviously, I don't know anything. I love this. There's a podcast apparently. Food for Thought. Food for Thought.

That's hysterical. I don't even know what they are. So I'm not endorsing whatever this is i just saw it on google uh other than that is there anything going on in your life um yeah that you want to share well a couple things i wanted to let you know that something really magical has happened um in a game i play called stardew valley um i've been blessed with a second child and uh my wife and i um i mean her name's emily don't get it in your head don't please don't emily and i she has blue hair it's a whole thing and she has a parrot but anyway so emily and i

got married and we adopted a child our first child was named wumbus the third after my um void chicken and cow and um then i just was blessed with a second child and it said christine sweetie or x teen sorry that's my name in the game x teen sweetie what would you like to name our second child and i thought you know i'm gonna name my child m no you didn't m junior and so now little m junior and i have are bonding wait a minute well that's actually precious and you're this cute little boy and that's the truth run around the house really fast and it scares me so i have to leave the house that's exactly how it used to be too so exactly and you and my mom have something to text about now and so i just wanted to let you know i named my second born after you oh that's so precious i did not see that coming i'm doing this now so that in

a few years i don't actually have to name my child after you that hurts never mind it went from precious to just downright mean i'm just kidding but but here's the thing i used to i don't understand this game at all christine and eva both play it and i hear them talk about the most like like acid trip experiences i'm like oh well grandpa came to visit me in the diamond cave and i was like what's happening like what tales are you telling under a bridge he was like i gave sebastian some sashimi it's his favorite food i think we're gonna get married the only story i've been able to retain somehow is that Eva walked up to a different... This is me saying it without understanding the concept at all.

I can't wait. It sounds to me that once your character in the game is destined for one other person, like your soulmate, and the only way to let the soulmate know that you're their soulmate is to throw food at them yeah and so at one point eva found this her soulmate in the game named sebastian and she walked around with a giant plate of spaghetti and then like threw it at sebastian and now they're like like matt what's the thing in twilight where you're like connected for life or something? Oh yeah, you're like bonded.

I don't remember the word. It sounds like it's that kind of game. Well, I- Apparently Christine bonded with some girl named Emily with blue hair. She had a parrot. I couldn't help myself. But even I did learn that you can divorce people in the game. And so I want to really recreate your childhood and I'm going to divorce your mother.

Oh, okay. Sure. Let's do it. Let's make it weird bring sebastian into the picture that would be actually very akin to my thank you i'm trying very hard there would be somehow i don't know how but i the drama sounds at the right level i hope the parrot stays i don't think the parrot's gonna stay if i get rid of emily but well who knows custody is a tricky thing but because I don't understand this game at all by you naming a character after me I'm now almost like obligated to actually learn what this I think

it's more fun if you don't though it's more fun for me just let me know when I start throwing spaghetti at people yeah or when they throw spaghetti at me I want to know who I'm bonded yeah yeah yeah um I will say this if you're like most people on the planet including m you're like what are they talking about skip skip skip uh this is a game on the switch that a lot of you recommended on twitter and i've even i've both become like deeply obsessed to the point where i'll be on it like two and it's like eva has joined and is online and i'm like thank god it's not just me so it's a very fun game and i don't have a switch and i i'm not really like like into video games at all and so the two of them it's really bad when we were traveling they would

just have the most i'm telling you the most psychedelic conversations i've ever heard and i had to sit in a goddamn car with them you were like having fever dreams on fever dream like what are you guys talking about so anyway so that's that if you're lost you're not alone because i too am lost that's the update we're all lost i'm i will say i'm very honored that something is named after me in your life so thank you you're welcome now i've got to name something after you that's awkward i know okay sorry we just had a little jump cut here um i don't know because i had to ask him if this was like appropriate conversation i don't know but um I did want to add, in addition to, I probably should have said this before my Stardew Valley updates.

Yeah, it would have boded well if we said the sad thing first. The sad thing, right. But unfortunately, this weekend, past weekend, my Oma passed away in Austria. And it was very, I don't't know we're recording late because of this and I apologize to Em and Eva for editing um but it was just a rough weekend and um I took it a lot harder than I thought because we knew she was sick for a long time she's been sick for 14 years with like Alzheimer's and dementia that sucks and so like we've known for a very long time that this was coming but for whatever reason on Saturday it was like the honestly I think the reason it hit me so hard is I was this is just I don't even know how to wrap my brain around this

but I was fine all morning and Blaze and I were Blaze had the day off so we were like running around doing stuff hanging out I did some laundry I threw the laundry and then all of a sudden I got like so overwhelmed with like full panic and I was like blaze I need to leave the house so we went for a walk with the dogs and like on the walk I started like hyperventilating and blaze is like what's going on and I was like I don't know I think I'm having like I mean I have panic disorder but I haven't had a real like like I have anxiety attacks but not like a real panic attack in years and so i was like years maybe it's an exaggeration in like minutes maybe minutes and so i had this like i was like i can't breathe like my my heart is racing i was like i'm gonna die of a heart attack and blaze is like you're fine you're fine like we'll get you home and so we got home i was like okay i don't

know what's going on i think i'm having like a real meltdown like i don't know what's going on and i like lay down in bed and just had this like i mean full- a real meltdown like i don't know what's going on and i like lay down in bed and just had this like i mean full-blown meltdown like conniption like blaze was like oh dear god and like he's seen me at my worst mostly at my best but also at my worst i wish i can't wait for the day where i see that my best your best it's never gonna happen um even your most mediocre would suffice you look at this jawline and you be happy okay and there's the confidence there it is it's back yeah m draws it out of me but i had this like meltdown and it was like six o'clock and i just i like started like i mean like dry heaving like i was full-blown panic and it's like what's like everything's fine everything's fine

and i was like it's not he's like what do you mean and I was like my grandma died and he's like what he's like no no everything's fine like just lay down he like got me a Klonopin he was like here you go and I was like this is love he brought me like a La Croix and a Klonopin and like after a few minutes I finally like settled down I was like whoa sorry I felt it and I kept saying I'm not here like I'm just like I have, you're learning a lot about me. I have like, dissociative problems. And so I was like, I was like, out of my body. And I was like, I'm not here.

Like, I feel like I'm in a well. And he was like, Jesus Christ, like, he was getting really freaked out. Like, quite a fast trip. It was a deep well. I just like felt like I got sucked into like, and I was like, it's, it doesn't matter. But I was freaking out. And so finally, I calmed down. I was like, God, sorry. I'm like, I'm back. I'm sorry. I doesn't matter. But I was freaking out. And so finally I calmed down. And I was like, God, sorry.

I'm like, I'm back. I'm sorry. I don't know what happened. And he was just laying with me. And then like 20 minutes later, I got a text from my uncle that was like, OK, I just want to let everyone know that like grandma just passed away about like half an hour ago, 3 a.m. Their time, which is. And then I like Googled it and it was like 6.05 p.m. Our time.

And I was like and I looked at Blaze and he was like, I was like, I told you. And he was like, how'd you know? I was like, I don't know. I just knew. And it was really weird because I was like, I didn't think it was going to be like that. You know, it was a happy thing in a way because like she was really not in a good place and everything. But it was just so weirdly, I don't know.

I felt like this is, I felt like I was not here like it was very weird and I think it just scared me a lot um and so anyway so my grandma passed away I'm unfortunately unable to make to the funeral um but she was a she was a great lady and um she's up with my grandpa now what's your favorite story about her um my mom actually I called my mom and we were talking about her and it's my dad's mom but my mom back in the 90s when they first met they she visited Austria to meet her new husband like my dad's parents and she was like I was so nervous and I went and I bought a bouquet of flowers oh my god it just got really dark in here the class it's your your oma say something nice quick oh god yeah I know she's like i don't like this story my grandma

or my mom showed up with this bouquet of flowers and she's like but it was so cold and like the heater wasn't working that the flowers froze in the car and so she showed up with these like frozen flowers and my grandma was like thank you and apparently she my grandma like pretended that they were perfectly fine and like put them in a vase and was like, they're so beautiful. And my mom's like, they were just like dead and frozen. She's like, that's kind of foreshadowing maybe for the marriage. But sure. In any case.

Yeah. So I don't know. I didn't know them as well as most of my cousins, which is also why I'm a little bit weirded out that I like had that weird connection. Yeah. Do you think she was a spiritual person? That it actually weirdly in my family run that's the side of the family where like my aunt always has weird dreams about what everyone's doing and like i often dream like my grandpa comes to me a lot in my dreams like that whole family is just kind

of in this weird like dimension where they're all like it's very weird i don't know and i never felt like i was part of that so and i apparently showed up and gave me a freaking panic attack so thanks well your mom gave her frozen flowers anyway i know that was long i'm sorry i just wanted to throw it out there because uh i feel like by next week you know we'll have moved on and i just wanted to give her a little shout out and oh look and the light's coming back holy cannoli anyway i hope oma and opa are happy and healthy all right and together all right all right sounds good thanks for letting me share that yeah i feel like we're in a sharing circle i love a good sharing circle pass the talking

stick to you the talking frozen flat bouquet nothing i love more than a frozen bouquet okay so my story is one you're gonna like oh i'm already god it better be i'm afraid you already looked at the title of it i didn't know oh okay that's interesting i you're usually sneaky on the eyes no i sometimes i do but now i i blur my eyes if i happen to look at your computer i intentionally blur my eyes like a crazy person because i know otherwise i'll like accidentally read it oh good i haven't seen it uh well i mentioned it by accident not by accident it was in my notes so pretty intentionally no most of them even if they're in our notes most of the things we say are accidental oh i i mentioned it it might have been last week's story

i i'm having a hard time remembering where i place it in my notes but um you mentioned that you told me to cover it a long time ago and i had never had it from loveland yeah oh the loveland frog person right oh my god oh my god i'm excited so this is the loveland frog man the loveland frog man slash the loveland frog men what oh see i don't know anything about it because i remember when we first started the podcast my dad's friend patrick who they play pink they play tapes are table tennis together they started a table tennis together they started a table tennis club it's a whole thing but he lives in Loveland and he told my dad like you have to tell Christine or he's like can I have Christina's email address I have to speak to her I was like

sure here's her social security number and phone number etc and so Patrick Hinder wrote to me and said you need to cover this Loveland and we were two weeks into the show and i was like i don't even know anything about this or i don't even do paranormal so anyway we're finally here patrick finally here it's not too long of a story but it's still good okay um so this is an urban legend in loveland ohio it's also known sometimes as the loveland lizard okay fun fact usually i feel like with urban legends everyone has a story about seeing the creature right but apparently this cryptid they only really fall back on three different reports or three different sightings so the first really yeah so the first time that the loveland frogmen were seen was in 1955 also the year that um marty mcfly's parents fell in

love i mean look at that i'm not saying i'm just saying it can't be a coincidence right if it was on november 5th 1955 that day was bananas that's geo's birthday i mean listen listen that's why for a scorpio it worked out because there was a little back to the future love that's true um so 1955 this was along the little miami river i know you've heard of the little miami yes it runs through cincinnati it blows my mind as someone who did never lived anywhere near ohio i always think miami florida and when i first met you and you kept telling me that blaze into miami i was like i don't get how you fucking met then in florida no i never understood yeah it's sad we

have to say miami ohio to be clear that we're not I never got it because you would always tell the story and at some point I was like I just have to pretend like I understand oh no because you were like oh yeah well he went to Miami and so we always met like obviously you know like well I'm from I'm from Cincinnati and he went to Miami so we always we were you know we were so close and I was like what no you weren't I just flew idiot no wonder you have all those Delta SkyMiles. Idiot. I was so confused. And eventually I was just like, apparently they just really had no problem traveling. It was like, I believe, a Native American tribe.

And so the name is. I hear you. But yes, it is confusing. I agree. But when I was reading my notes, it kept saying Little Miami River. And I was like, every time. I just think of my confusion for the first full year that we were friends oh my god i didn't know that sorry no it's it's fine very confusing just if you are not from the area

miami is also in ohio it's not just florida um so it's along little mi River, 1955, and the first story goes that a local businessman saw three frog-like men with leathery skin, webbed hands and feet at the side of the road. Okay. The businessman watches them talk to each other, and then one of them lifts up a cylindrical metal object and holds it like a wand and sparks fly out of it. And the businessman runs away. And the guy's like, no, like my shocks of my car broke in the house. You asshole. So there's different, that's literally the whole first story. Okay.

So the different versions of that story, some say that it was an unnamed road. Some say it was in the neighborhood called Branch Hill. Some say it was on a bridge. It probably was on a bridge. That seems to be most of the storylines. But there are so many bridges near the river that it's impossible to know which one. So the entire story is a guy somewhere seeing, it's very vague. And you don't even know the name of the guy.

You don't know the date. All you know is it's 1955. Okay. the guy you don't know the date all you know is it's 1955 okay so there's already a lot of plot holes there of not being able to figure out any details or corroborated it in any way right a lot so the original story was that oh there's these humanoid frogs running around but because of the cylindrical metal object or the wand that immediately started swaying people to suggest that the creatures were extraterrestrials so it's a cryptid slash alien depending on what part of the story you're focused on okay

um so the next uh story or the next sighting was several years later in 1972 this one was on march 3rd at 1 a.m. So already a lot more detail. The Loveland Police Department had an officer named Ray Shockey who was driving on Riverside Drive. And apparently he saw an unidentified animal run in front of his car and he stopped his car before hitting it. But in his headlights, he did see that the creature was four feet tall. It was 60 pounds and had leathery skin. Around 60 pounds. So Ray went to the police station and drove. He was like freaked out.

He drove back with his friend and his friend was named Officer Mark Matthews. He ended up going back to the police station and trying to get one of his friends because apparently after he almost hit the creature with his car, the creature moved around the car and then crouched like a frog and then it stood upright climbed over the guardrail while staring at him oh and then headed towards the river so that was enough to make him want to go to the police station and bring someone back there to look around right um and some variations when of the story when they did come back to when they came back to the site where he saw this creature the whole area smelled like almonds and alfalfa oh whoa what a specific so i guess that's part of the legend now if you smell almonds or alfalfa that means that a frog man is

near that or someone's been poisoned with cyanide or that that. Let's remember that. Both pretty awful. Both are terrible and leave the vicinity. Maybe don't stay in Ohio. If you smell almonds, run and run fast. So when they went back to the location where Ray Shockey saw this creature, they did find scratch marks and scrape marks leading down towards the river where the creature had run off. And that was all that they found. It could have been from anything but true could have also been from this thing um mark matthews his friend said quote naturally i didn't believe him but i could somehow tell from his demeanor that he did see something it's like that same with zanfredo where they're like i know this guy like something shook him up yeah something's not right even if it's not I don't know what it is but clearly something to really get right so then two weeks later

Mark Matthews actually had his own experience where he saw an unidentified animal dead in the road and so he went to move it to the side of the road to stay away from traffic but as soon as he opened the car door his car door to get out the door squeaked open and the animal freaked out and got up trying to run away because it heard a loud sound. The animal also crouched like he was a football player, allegedly. Okay. And then he tried climbing over the guardrail again. But Mark Matthews freaked out and he didn't know what to do. He just knew it was an unidentified animal.

It freaked out his friend two weeks prior. So he shot it. No, I was like, I know where this is going, but it escaped. Mark assumed that it must've died later of the bullet wound or eventually just from the cold weather because this was,

it was still icy outside. Wow. These encounters, the two from Ray and Mark, they have much more detail. They have exact dates, times, and Matthews is a witness to Ray Shockey. Some say that Ray Shockey is actually a fake alias for the actual cop who just didn't want to be known by the story. And they just picked a random name. And they're like, oh, his name's Ray Shockey. And so that became the legendary cop who just didn't want to be known by the story and they just picked a random name and they're like oh his name's ray shocky and so that became the legendary cop that saw him but it's just an anonymous random name that they assigned him okay but there was i guess there i

think it was on skeptoid podcast um they tried to do as much research as they could and they did find a ray shocky who was quote born in loveland in 1928 and died in loveland in 2014 oh who served on the loveland police department for 40 years beginning in 1971 the year before the sighting no way so he was a newbie so he would probably he probably existed yeah that's cool okay in 1999 um mark mat Mark Matthews actually, I guess, changed his tune. And he explained that he was tired about talking about the frog man and what he actually just saw was an iguana. You can't come up with a better story than an iguana? So both... In Ohio in the frozen temperatures of December?

Okay. frozen temperatures exactly okay and so but both men did confirm originally that they saw an upright humanoid lizard that they even both had sketches made of their sightings and like they were both giant frogmen they were bipedal leathery skin so now he's just saying it's an iguana it's like that thing where people just won't leave you alone so you're like i don't even i wish i'd never said anything that's what the internet thinks happens. I see. He's backing away from it now. And that's what we think, I bet. That's what I think. That's what we think.

I'm always going to be on the side of the believer. The weirder story. So in 2001, during an email interview, Mark Matthews actually spoke even more openly about it. This was two years after he said it was just an iguana. And he explained that the incident was, was quote habitually blown out of proportion he also said it was and is no monster it was not leathery or had wet matted fur first of all no one said that to begin with but okay you're just adding more specifics to this you're making it weirder you're

making it exactly it was not three to five feet tall it did not stand erect the animal i saw was obviously some type of lizard that someone had as a pet that either got too large for its aquarium or escaped by accident or they simply got tired of it it was less than three feet in length ran across the road and was probably blinded by my headlights it presented no aggressive action so he's just making up oh i don't know if he's making it up but he's telling the whole of the story okay which is also really sad like when someone just dumped their pet i don't like that yeah it doesn't make it better just makes it sad and scared and got shot like i don't like that yeah exactly okay um so people assume he's was either freaked out by the creature or just tired of being like a

spectacle in the news so he's just changing the story but he could also be telling the truth there's really no proof either one way or the other um in 2016 he like stood his ground again and he contacted wcpo he reached out to them because apparently they ran a story about him got it or about the loveland frogman and he said the creature again did not walk up walk upright it walked on all fours he was quoted saying it's a big hoax there's a logical explanation for everything he says again that it was probably just an escaped pet that was living uh by a nearby factory just like for its warm pipes because it was still cold outside um but in that same year on august 3rd in 2016 the era era of Pokemon Go. Oh. Two teenagers, Sam Jacobs and his girlfriend, were playing Pokemon Go between Madeira Road and Lake...

Madeira. Madeira Road. That's where Renee grew up. Oh, well, there you go. Aw. History is happening. How precious. Madeira Road and Lake Isabella.

Oh, my God. Sorry. That's where we'd go on Mother's Day every year. Aw, so sweet. To go fishing. Well, apparently... Sam Jacobs and his girlfriend were playing Pokemon Go in that area, and that's when they saw a giant frog near the lake that apparently, quote, stood up and walked on its hind legs. Oh, sorry, that was me. I wish Mother's Day.

It was actually just someone really reenacting Pokemon Go. I went through a hard time in high school, okay? My skin was a little bit leathery leave me alone dare i mention that i nicknamed you kermit on my phone that's true listen i'm getting a lot of shit about my jawline about well i've talked i kermit the frog has a great jawline what are you talking about thank you it's not easy being green it's not i tell you what so sam jacobs was quoted, We saw a huge frog near the water, an actual giant frog. I took a couple pictures and videos because I'd never seen one that big. Then the thing stood up and walked on its hind legs.

I swear on my grandmother's grave that this is the truth. I'm not sure whether it was a frog man or just a giant frog. Either way, I've never seen anything like it. Ew. And it walked on its... Even if it's a giant frog, like... Yeah, absolutely not. Not okay. So there have been a few other reports that aren't really taken seriously but if you really wanted to argue that the frog

man is real then these stories usually come into play um one report is right after mark matthews had his experience there was a local farmer that reported a large frog-like or lizard-like creature during the same month um he said that its eyes were large and circular the skin was a pale greenish gray and its mouth was wide with sharp teeth oh question real quick yeah did we did they did the first pokemon go guy ever post the photos anywhere like uh i think he did i couldn't find it um it's a lot of people suggest it's a hoax though so sure okay i don't know like if you're gonna say oh i took videos and photos like you better step up i'm

sure you can find it online somewhere okay i just i couldn't find it sure okay i didn't know if we were gonna green screen it no no no i'm sure i'll green screen some footage something there'll be something we'll film it ourselves actually we'll just put a picture of kermit the frog you put me dancing just do the video of kermit dancing the one that i always put i always send you oh you just do me dancing it's easier to film do a side by side oh no um so also in 1955 all the way back in the very first year when there was a sighting of the frog man apparently there is a story of a woman named miss mrs johnson who was swimming in the ohio river in evansville indiana big mistake

well while swimming there was a creature that attacked her from under the water told you and tried pulling her down by her leg oh my god eventually she was able to kick away after a lot of struggle and swam to shore but there were contusions in her leg and a green palm print that seemed to stain her skin for days. Ew! So, and for some reason that is the loved one frogman, but a lot of the arguments are that, yeah, I think the main connection is that the little miami river drains into the ohio river and so they think like oh well he could just be swimming around in all the water and just grab you like lazy rivering down right inner tube yeah but uh basically like there was never any sign that he was aggressive there's never been any story like that before. And Evansville is like 240 miles away from the other sightings.

They just kind of threw it in, I guess, because only a couple months before there was this, the stories began of this Loveland Frogman. So I think it just kind of got connected that way. But it was so distance wise far away. And it was the only thing we have of it showing any aggression. So it doesn't really sound like like it's mo if you will um but if there were multiple too remember like they said right at the beginning if there were multiple maybe they were just spread out with maybe but also the biggest argument is like okay well you were in the ohio river where there's massive catfish

and snapping turtles yeah it's not a great place to go swimming and also quite dirty a green handprint could be just be like a series of bruises from getting attacked true so the argument is not strong hand i don't know oh god i don't know either way i don't know if there's a person down there is also scary i'm just gonna be honest but uh but yeah so it's not usually a strong argument, but if you're trying to find additional arguments, it's used. Allegedly, there's no Native American folklore of this creature. I'm pretty sure there is no Native American folklore. I don't want to come off as ignorant, though. There is an alleged story of a creature like this. And I say alleged because there's a lot of talk that there was never folklore about this until

the frogman showed up and now they're trying to use corroborating they're like creating a folklore to like a backstory to validate yeah it sounds like there was no story until there was a frogman and then they were like oh yeah well you know this doesn't this haven't you heard right exactly so the alleged folklore is of a creature named Shauna Hawk, which apparently means river demon. Oh, well, there you go. The stories of this creature start in the 17th century when the Shawnee and Twightee tribes warned French settlers about it. Apparently, Shauna Hawk, it's S-H-A-W-N-A-H-O-O-C. Shauna Hawk apparently is a large bipedal reptile that lives in the Little Miami River,

who is a hairless humanoid frog with dark, wrinkled, slimy, bumpy skin. So it sounds kind of like on brand. Yeah, it does fit. Apparently, Shauna Hawk threatened the natives until they fought him off, and it went into hiding until the natives eventually were moved from the territory wow um they again they say it's alleged because it was only referenced after the fact that frogmen came out um so they say like oh yeah well they were talking about in the 17th century but they also weren't talking about it really until 1955 i see um so apparently they i think this is also skeptoid podcast they did a lot of research

to figure out if they could even find shauna hawk and they can't confirm that it actually means river demon there's no like native words that actually make up the phrase shauna hawk there you go um even after trying to translate the word using shawnee and like algonquin languages it just like doesn't really fit that could also be totally wrong but i'm gonna go with the people who researched it the most i'm just their quote probably smart their quote is uh shauna hawk is quote likely a false appeal of antiquity or the wisdom of the ancients as well as a possible attaching of sasquatch-esque to frogman so they're just like appropriating this culture and being like look exactly oh that's fucked so there are no articles or police reports from 1955 or earlier or later okay on online archives but the argument could be that those those reports were just never digitized so they do exist but you just can't find them online sure also weather

reports do suggest that it was probably cold and icy out but the argument then is well if anything reptilian was out there during that kind of weather it would have not been able to like like handle that weather right right because usually frogs and reptiles like hibernating and shit right yeah uh frogs hibernate that yeah i mean and they're they live in like warm moist yeah yeah so it doesn't really make sense like okay if the weather was that bad why was there a reptile just hanging out in the middle of the running around ice skating no thanks so if people were to assume that it was there a reptile just hanging out in the middle of the road? Running around ice skating? No thanks. So if people were to assume that it was this massive reptile, the largest

lizard in the region is a broad-headed skink, but it's so small compared to a four-foot... It's like you can hold it. There's also a common wall lizard which was introduced to the region in 1950, so the argument there is it may not be the biggest

but it was it wasn't a newer it was a newer species that no one was familiar with in the 50s so maybe they saw it and freaked out sure but it's also still small it's still smaller than the largest lizard which was also small right okay interesting so one of the other arguments is just the you know one that always works is dog mange. Oh, sure. Where with mange, the animal ends up getting hair loss and scabs, and it kind of looks like it's got, like, leather skin because of all of its wounds. Sad. So they think it could have been a coyote, or it could have been a coy dog, which is like a breed between a domestic dog and a coyote.

Because if that had mange, it would look even weirder and more unknown. Oh, yeah. And coyotes have that like skeletal. Yeah. And they can be in packs or they can ride solo. And we got a lot of those in OH. Yes. Ride solo.

Yikes. It could also, if you're really trying to like stretch it that far, they could be lizard people from another planet because oh right i forgot that was part of this because a lot of people do think that it's probably an alien or that they're they're somehow extraterrestrials and in a lot of ufo abductions a lot of people say they see lizard men on board like yeah so it could remember that one oh wait you already is this what it was where you saw a large frog and we were like oh it might be from another planet and all this yeah whatever that story was

that's zan freda story yeah yeah so they thought that maybe it was oh god i got the loveland frog that's where that came in okay thank you for that i just totally forgot the connection so they think it could they think it could be a uforestrial that was either researching Earth or crash landed on Earth or, I don't know, something along those lines. The stories are more believed that this thing actually existed in 1955. It just happened to be a perfect year for people to just agree that these stories are real and that the sightings really happen. Because the year before the creature from the black lagoon came out oh no way so there's just like probably a mass conspiracy that sort of happened where they socialized it and then people thought they saw something near

the water and and it's just turned into a thing where you hear about and you're like huh like like what you're talking about bridge water triangle how it like starts a web of and the person in evanston is like oh i also exactly saw it yeah exactly so interesting that seems to be the main argument of like it's just like kind of a mob mentality yeah pretty weird timing otherwise that a year after that movie came out people are now seeing something yeah um it's usually described as an american tall tale like paul bunyan um and it's classic though it's definitely more of a legend than a cryptid or an alien but it's you know it's still like a big legend in the area um loveland ohio actually adopted

the frogman as their mascot they have a lot of teams called frogmen they have marathons like the frogman 5k and shit um in 2010 there was a movie called the legend of the loveland frogman created by someone who actually lives in loveland was it patrick no okay it was actually just you and your dad it might have been in 2014 a blue this is the thing i need to go check out immediately in 2014 a bluegrass musical came out called hot damn it's the loveland frog get out of here which i'm i need to see get out of here and in 2019 a band in atlanta called Sweater wrote a song called Loveland Frogman. Old Sweater. So that's everything I got.

But that's the Loveland Frogman. I love that story. I never heard about it until we started the show. And people from Cincinnati were like, cover the Loveland Frogman. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I handled it. Wow. Okay.

There's also a castle in Loveland. The Loveland Castle. Yeah, that got mentioned a lot in the story. I just actively didn't read it. Good. That sounds about right. I'll figure it out. I'll bring it up somehow, someway, in another form.

I'll bring it up. Don't worry. Okay. I guess it's my turn. It is. So this is a story that I have actually had bookmarked, again, since like the beginning of the show. Oh, that's fun.

Sometimes I go through my old like bookmarks on Chrome and I like just click old links that I was like, I don't know why I saved this. And this was one of them. And I was like, how have I never covered this? Oh, bingo. Bingo, bingo. This is the story of James Lloyd, the Rotherham shoe rapist. Ooh.

Bringing things down, as usual. I was going to say, that sentence started really happily. It did, didn't it? It took a dive quick. Yeah, well, needless to say, I've now deleted it from my bookmark, so my computer's a little cleaner. Sure. Okay, so I figured out how to say Rotherham. It's spelled Rotherham, but it's like in England, so, you know, you say things the way they're how to say Rotherham. It's spelled Rotherham, but it's like in England.

So, you know, you say things the way they're not spelled. Rotherham. The Rotherham shoe rapist. Okay. Well, we all say that the same, apparently. That word, unfortunately, is the same. Just Rotherham is the tricky one. Yeah, across all languages.

Okay, so this takes place in the metropolitan borough of South Yorkshire, England. For four years in the 1980s, a man stalked the streets of South Yorkshire, terrorizing women who were walking home after a night out. So this would typically occur in the early hours of the morning. The man would grab them from behind, drag them off the street to secluded areas, tie their hands behind their backs with stockings and tights, and then gag them also with stockings and tights. Oh, my God. And would then sexually assault them. He would take his time with the victims because they'd be in a secluded area. And so it was just terrorizing these women. terrorizing these women um and then he would leave the woman behind alive but he would take uh her shoes uh with him as well as often their jewelry purses and perfume so this is kind of the

mo was this guy's doing this and taking the women's shoes with him got it um so most of the women were in their teens and early 20s but the victims ages ranged from 18 to 54 uh police tried even at the test so police were on this at the time um in the 80s they used a decoy to try and snare the rapist they had a woman wandering alone in the streets in high heels hoping that this guy would jump out and attack did not work they yeah they then spoke to victims to try and create a composite sketch of the attacker. And they released that to the media, but still no hits. And then basically after this whole wave of attacks, leaving women in fear, panic, suddenly and inexplicably the attacks stopped. So at the time, the crimes were also featured on bbc's crime watch and that actually

prompted 350 names uh to be called into authorities but while several suspects were identified and interviewed not one person was apprehended none of them fit none they either had an alibi or it just wasn't the right guy huh um and eventually the case grew cold especially because the attacks had already stopped um it wasn't until years later that the case again gained some traction. And this was in the early 2000s. I know I've talked about this a lot, but like DNA profiling, forensic DNA became a thing. And so a lot of places started opening cold cases and trying to see if they could strike up matches on things that had grown cold since back in the day. So they actually produced a list of over 40 individuals who could possibly be connected

based on the DNA of the semen left at the crime scene. So thank God, again, that they saved this DNA back in the day and not even knowing how useful it would be. Just keeping it and just being like, hopefully something will come from this exactly and like preserved it properly because a lot of times it'll happen and then it'll be like degraded or won't work anymore so thankfully they had um some dna left and so they created a list of 40 people who could possibly somehow be connected to the case and um they went knocking on doors, basically. And, like, just on the third door, the third house that they went to, they met a woman. This was in 2001.

And she had actually, her DNA had been collected after she was arrested for a drunk driving conviction. And when her DNA was provided to police, it struck a match to a person on their 40-person list. And the DNA was almost an identical match to the long lost rotherham shoe rapist a man who happened to be this woman's brother so that's not good she gets arrested just on a whim for a drunk driving charge and suddenly bingo bango even though this other guy has never been put in the system because of familial dna profiling they're able to connect them so it's been 17 years since the case had kind of grown cold and finally police had a name the guy's name was james lloyd he was a local family man from thurnscoe i think it's pronounced we'll see if you yell at me well no one way or the other um a local family man from thurns go in south yorkshire and a loving

father of two now these phrases are actual ones that i pulled from the article so like i'm not putting my spin on this i'm reading what the media spin was on this oh god okay loving father of two he was a manager at deer or dern valley printers a printing firm where he'd worked since the age of 15. He was regarded as a, quote, pillar of the community. They always are. Always. It's like laughable at this point. If you know a pillar of the community,

call the police. Just be like, we should check it out. I live next to this guy named Jim. He's a pillar of the community. I think he should be arrested. If you're a pillar of the community, just offer up your fingerprints now. Just do. Just to save everyone trouble later.

Clear your name. Exactly. Yeah. Especially if you're a loving, normal neighbor. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. If you're as normal as they come, I'm watching you. Yep.

We are. We don't like it. We don't like it one bit. Okay. So in the Yorkshire Post, he was actually called a paragon of virtue oh me too obviously not like why are you calling him that yikes he proved exactly the opposite okay can you change my name in your phone to paragon of virtue if you delete the kermit thing no that's never gonna happen huh no you can put me as the afi lead singer and just the jawline though just zoom in on the jawline

people used to print that out really fucking computer lab i know people listen i had a hard time in high school just listen there's a reason i listened to afi and it's not because i looked like the singer okay um so this guy's sister she is like called in on this has no idea about any of this with her brother so she calls her brother and is like hey the police are gonna come ask for your dna like they're saying that you're linked to some sort of crimes from the 80s so she calls him and tells him after he finds out the police are onto him lloyd calls his father and says look after my children i have committed a series of offenses 20 years ago. Then attempts to take his own life by hanging in the garage.

However, the suicide attempt was stopped when his son found him in the garage as he came home from school. Oh, no. Yeah. Talk about traumatic. Police immediately swoop in and investigate. Turns out not only did James Lloyd work at a local pruning shop, he had also taken on a second job as a taxi driver where he would roam the streets at night, interestingly. Okay, now I see.

To kind of cover up why he was out of the house late at night and that kind of thing. When police searched his home, they found nothing. Did they? At all. But then his wife inadvertently tipped them off by mentioning how much time he spent at work at the printing firm he ran okay and they're like oh great we'll go there let's go do some digging then let's go do some digging police went straight to his workplace dern valley printers and also found nothing but then an employee explained yeah uh he spent a lot of time in his office and he doesn't really like any of the employees going in there. And they're like, okay.

Jackpot. Got it. A search of his office revealed, once again, nothing. I don't like this game anymore. They found a trap door. I know. How do you even actually make a trap door in a building surrounded by people? And also, like, what constitutes a trap door?

Because I'm like, a trap door sounds like you're going to a lever and like indiana jones is gonna fall through it or something that i don't know like this seems less like a trap door and more like a just like a closet full of terrible things oh okay i don't really know like just like a hole and under there maybe yeah i don't like it you don't like it either it's bad it's all bad so they found this quote-unquote trap door this quote unquote trap door. In the trap door, there were hidden bags containing more than 100 pairs of high heeled shoes, as well as stockings and tights that Lloyd had used to tie up his victims. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

Yeah. Not a fun trap door. No. So Detective Inspector Angela Wright, who was actually credited with catching lloyd and was at the scene when they discovered all this was later quoted as saying i just remember them bringing these shoes down it was marvelous i knew then we finally had our man so they were watching as as detectives literally or police literally just dragged down bags of these shoes from his office like it's just so creepy um so some of the shoes looked like they had been

purchased on like shoe fetish websites and had never been worn and she said even like were so absurd that like a woman probably couldn't even wear them because they were like so they were like created as like to look at not to wear sure display shoes yes yes yes display them in your trap door. Yes, exactly. But she said many of the shoes had obviously been worn and they did belong to someone at one point, which was like very unsettling. Oh, no. So back in the 80s, detectives had actually asked the question whether the shoes were taken just to slow the woman down. Like if that was the reason he stole their shoes or to stop her from escaping but now they finally

had their answer no these were trophies and he was keeping them after he attacked his victims awful basically his undoing um according to detective inspector right some of the shoes were indeed identified by victims as their own shoes from the 80s oh my god can you imagine that's terrible like i just got chills from that like they would literally look through hundreds of pairs of shoes and say those are mine those are mine he took those from me it's really really really oh my god so when asked about the significant number of shoes recovered detective wright said there may be other victims who haven't come forward there probably are so they are searching they're pulling out all these shoes these tights etc they also find a

document called the perfect victim what oh god it the document detailed rapes identical to those committed by lloyd and it also described the trussing up which is like the tying up with like like tying your limbs behind you and stuff like that the trussing up and raping of women in the way lloyd carried out his attacks but it was not clear whether lloyd wrote the document himself or whether he just had it and copied it like it's not clear who wrote the document but it clearly described attacks exactly the way that he did them wow i imagine he wrote it i don't know why else i mean they didn't seem to find any copies anywhere else so i don't know why else. I mean, they didn't seem to find any copies anywhere else. So I don't know why else it would exist. But they couldn't confirm for sure that he had written it.

So interestingly, while he was active in the 80s, like I said, remember the attacks just like suddenly stopped inexplicably. You get married? Yep. Exactly. They always do. They always do. Apparently he stopped his crimes when he got married and started a family at least he's committed to his wife well yes never mind exactly that is exactly true part of the reason may be explained by a series of videos they found in lloyd's possessions

the videos show him and his wife pat having sex she was often tied up and appeared to be comatose while lloyd was extremely interested in the stiletto she was wearing and would replace them if one fell off and the videos also allegedly showed lloyd using stilettos as part of penetrative sex and obviously this is not wrong in any way because the wife said i was a willing participant oh okay yeah okay this is not attacking you should preface that sorry okay i just well they found the videos and they were like holy shit and then they talked to her and she's like no no i know about the videos like i was part of it i thought he was filming them you said she looked comatose and i assumed she was unconscious they did too they did too so that's why i didn't press it because like they they saw this and thought oh my god he's drugging his wife and attacking her that's what i thought

she herself said she consented to all the acts in the videos she wasn't being drugged got it it was like role play um but the point of that story is basically it may explain why his attacks on strangers stopped because he was like able to do this exactly at home with pat so when he was arrested uh lloyd told officers i knew that was coming i was a bastard 20 years ago so like he had been basically knowing eventually he would get arrested, but how can you not act in 20 years? So it's like really creepy. It's like this. It's like Golden State Killer.

Like he's just sitting in his house like for decades. Yeah. And finally, years after the attacks even stopped, someone just shows up and is like, we finally found you. So he basically was like yep i did it um wow he hadn't attacked like i said a woman in i think 17 years at this point and he probably would have remained free to this day if either his sister hadn't been arrested on a drunk driving charge or if he hadn't um had his undoing of collecting trophies sure collecting because

if they hadn't found anything in his house office or etc like they wouldn't have been able to pin this on him um and this is especially true considering how normal and a pillar of the community this guy was yep uh so i actually got a bunch of quotes because this seems to be like a very um it's like it seems to be just one of the favorite things for the news to write about like how normal he was you know okay let's hear it like it's just such a classic story like the everyday or the girl next the common man the common guy that hosted barbecues all american next door neighbor totally hiding a secret like it's just one of the best like the favorite spins that newspapers put um on these stories so i'm gonna read some of the the clips that i found to

describe how just how normal this guy was so let's see former neighbor said quote we can hardly believe it it doesn't seem real that someone like jim could do something like that he was a typical family man just a hard-working bloke oh my god okay just a hard-working bloke who seemed decent he was a workaholic who sometimes worked 13 hour days i'm like that's not what he was doing he had a trap door yeah uh uh somebody said our child used to play at his house this has made us feel physically sick yeah yikes really scary an acquaintance said a lot of people are really upset about it because they liked him and now they just don't know what to think so it's almost that feeling of like oh i never sensed anything off about this person and how scary is

that that like it makes you wonder about yourself like oh if i never felt fear around him i should have who else should i completely yeah like and you don't that you that way you don't trust your own instincts at that point it's like or you question your own instincts like i never thought anything was wrong um so it's a little unsettling for a lot of people um people in his own family were like utterly shocked by this news they had no idea about it when he met his current wife by the time he had met his current current wife pat uh he had already stopped his crime so there was no way she could have like accidentally like saw him sneaking in exactly exactly so he had already stopped and um in the years since then, he had not done anything to arouse suspicion as far as like getting arrested or anything like that. He actually spent so much time at work that he had apparently little time for outside hobbies.

So like he was either at work or at home. So his wife never thought like, what's he doing out there? Right, right. And it makes sense now that he had all this stuff at his office. So it's like he didn't need to go anywhere. His brother in law. So his wife's brother, John Willis, said that Pat was under extreme stress, obviously, as a result of the situation. She didn't know what the hell to make of it.

She was like, this is my husband. Like, I had never had any reason to question him. And her brother. So his brother in law saidlaw said quote it has taken everyone completely by surprise he's such a well-respected man that it takes your breath away i have known him for 22 years through my sister 22 years that's like i can't imagine knowing someone for even five years and having them so i mean how long have i known you how long we know each other imagine no no so it's like and you especially if your family you live

together it's like the fact that you would just have no idea it must be so traumatizing to like learn this about somebody imagine if you like found this out about blaze like i know 10 years into your marriage we've been married like one year almost like i can't fathom 22 years um and so he continued to say there was no indication about this guy whatsoever that he had any interest in anything other than being mr boring pipe and slippers pipe and slippers he didn't even go out for a drink words fail me so like this guy didn't even have vices that they knew of like they were like he's so boring he's just the everyday guy like goes to work goes home go watch his tv goes to bed just so blends in with society yeah pipe and pipe and slippers

that's what i always say slippers oh god so if you know a guy like that careful um he said if you were to paint a picture of someone who would not commit that sort of crime it would be my brother-in-law that part of his character was like a closed book he was a workaholic with few outside interests so point being this is how people saw him this is how shocking this was to the community and his own family it's not even like a neighbor being like oh like i never knew it's like his own wife yeah yeah uh so he once he was arrested he said i was a bastard 20 years ago i knew this would happen he admitted raping a 21 year old woman uh in december of 1983 a 21 year old woman in october 1984 an 18 year old uh woman in december 1984 an 18 year old in august 1986 he also admitted two

attempted rapes in february 1983 and june 2004 attempted but denied stealing a pair of black and gold stilettos from a woman in october 1982 that they had that's where he draws yeah he's like okay i didn't want those shoes no and he also denied another attempted rape that they had tried to pin on him so officially only four victims came forward um police believe have stated they believe lloyd may have had as many as 120 victims yeah wow that's that takes a jump yeah yeah wow big jump right so four were like the confirmed step forward and he admitted to them and then they said based on the shoes not all of them were worn but like a lot of them were clearly worn by people before and again he could have purchased those as well sure but just based on what they found they believe he could have had

up to 120 victims it was probably not that high but even half of that like even it's even four you know but it's just very scary so not um everyone has come forward they believe so lloyd was 50 at the time of his trial he apparently sobbed in court as he heard his sentence it was life in prison then he was told he would spend 14 and a half years in jail but his time was later cut to seven years and 263 days and he is now out so that didn't last they didn't last very long oh my god several of lloyd's victims attended the trial and as he was led out of the courtroom by two security officers one of his victims shouted rot in hell okay yeah agree because of the shortened jail sentence of about seven years which was handed down in 2006 he's been out for i don't know like five six years now is his wife still with him i

don't know i couldn't find anything i think they'd like really pulled themselves out of but she was with him like on during at least the time of the trial when all the news was coming out she was definitely with him still okay but it's i who knows i couldn't find anything about now um that being said lloyd's arrest and conviction even though he's out now is now hailed as the biggest success using familial profiling well probably not since golden state killer but sure one of the biggest at least probably um in the uk in fact while the technique which costs around 5 000 euro per, isn't used routinely at this point yet, it's believed that this case directly could influence the use of familial profiling and lead to much more widely implemented

use. So they said, you know, even though this guy got out, hopefully the fact that this worked so well will like convince funding for this type of research and hopefully use it on many more cases in the future. I mean, we've noticed that even in the U.S., cases are reopening finally from decades ago. And hopefully, we're getting closer to catching the Zodiac. Yay! Scientists also expect DNA technology, obviously, to advance in the next few years uh lester university academics are working on ways to predict surnames so last names from dna which is really interesting so basically what they do is they study the dna on the basis that many people

sharing the same last name have the same distant heritage and genetic similarities so they can try and narrow down like what someone's last name could be based on their dna get out that's pretty cool i just said it's like ancestry.com and like but using their dna in a very different way like murder like murder murder murder crime i don't know i don't like it i don't like it at all i love it but it's great a lot of opinions sorry sorry we just it's spooky ooky it is spooky ooky y'all give me that um yeah no it's very good but it's it's definitely like it's a little crazy and scary how like technology is able to do that but also i'm terrified every day of how i'm like i mean granted i have never done anything that i know of like as an illegal crime but I'm terrified of the technology that hasn't actually shown up yet that I'm gonna get like busted for something yeah you never know

I've already decided in my like paranoid state that I've committed thousands of like bloody well I'm glad that you're admitting it on air they're gonna cut that part out and use it in your trial I can't to date I can't think of anything but I've already decided I must be responsible for everything and one day technology is going to come and like i'm gonna get framed i don't know what's gonna happen but when people get really scared about that i'm like dude everyone is now being i'm sorry everyone is being tracked like i know when people are like yeah oh facebook knows what i'm saying i'm like what you're saying is probably not that interesting aunt jane like when

my aunt is like oh that's a made-up name to protect identities because aunt jane thinks that literally the government is tracking her every move and i'm like you're a stay-at-home mom with a three-year-old and you just go to like quilting on the i think the government is tracking our every move in case they ever need it but they're not listening right now like right i'm like they're not looking at you they're looking at like isis member you know what i mean i'm like also the second the time travel exists and cops can use that to go back to exact moments and find out when things happened everyone is in trouble when like any criminal any criminal you don't think it already exists i do but i'm trying to sound a little more like

coherent for your trial your characters i'm trying to pretend that i have some competency um anyway yeah point being um it's pretty cool i mean it's really great because they are really catching people now and like using this for for the betterment of society but it is crazy you know that it can happen yeah and 10 years 20 years ago like this was absurd to even think that this could be possible and now they're like predicting people's last names based on their dna which is just so fascinating to me um i didn't change my last name so they're not going to catch me hey you're just connected genetically to bernie sheaffer oh wait i guess that doesn't make sense so i should change my name and then maybe they won't connect okay forget it i actually just change your name to something totally different

and we're both going to end up in jail together. Let's just... I think we knew this from day one. And that's why we hope we get out early. That's why we drink toilet wine. Hooch. Hooch. Yes. That finally I'll get you to drink with me.

Hopefully. If that's what it takes, I'll bring you to jail with me. If I ever end up locked up or something, I'll drink some Hooch. Yay. Fingers crossed I never do, though. Fingers crossed we get there oh my god I'm sorry this is not funny okay so paranoid we are not criminals thank god I'm listen we'd be the worst criminal if we were criminals you would have figured it out by now just trust me do I I we don't even know what salt is made of we don't even know when the civil war is we don't know much about

anything no shapes how on earth could we cover that kind of stuff you can't expect that from us um one day the inquirer will put out a story about us like being some wild like genius criminals sure and i'll let it happen and we'll let it happen we'll finally be famous okay i'm so sorry they were pillars of the community see that's other things we're not pillars of the community see that's other thing we're not pillars of the community so we couldn't be anything yeah we don't blend in we don't blend in okay sorry i'm gonna get back to the story now um so they're basically trying to get people's last names there's also research being conducted into identifying racial features stature and eye color from dna to be able to create a

better profile of who an attacker might be so this case actually inspired a novel called dead like you by former crime reporter phil turner and when he was interviewed he explained why he wrote the book saying quote many of our worst monsters don't walk around with the words rapist or serial killer tattooed on their foreheads they wear suits and spectacles they are often successful professionals or businessmen most of them with adoring wives and children and viewed by their friends and neighbors as pillars of their community and i think that is something interesting to keep in mind we always say trust your gut and 100 do that but also you can't necessarily trust everyone um maybe that's just me being paranoid but uh there are people hiding in monsters hiding in plain sight and a wolf in sheep's skin exactly

and this is one perfect example of that and that is the story of james lloyd the rotherham shoe rapist and because i used so many quotes and i didn't want to put them all within the text because it was just a lot i just want to add the sources that I used were The Sun, Mirror, Metro, The Guardian, BBC, Yorkshire Post, Telegraph, and Rotherham Advertiser. Because there were a lot of quotes in there about pillars of the community. And I had a lot of tabs open. Great. That's that. Thank you for that.

I can finally delete that off my freaking bookmarks list. Thank God. Well, that's that on that story about trapdoor not a fun one though well i wish i had a nice anecdote to end this on but i don't think i do some people have sent in new suggestions for like endings they said maybe we read like a listener story but that just adds so much more work having you know uh we're not usually that well prepared we could do that no we're not it. I know it seems like we have our shit together. We don't, though.

This green screen is very, very deceiving. It is. Yeah. It is. Hmm. What should we talk about? I don't know. I mean, I guess we can just say bye.

Oh. Just kidding. I'm sorry. List where they can find us. Oh, right. If they're new. I don't know how we still don't know how to do this podcast if you want to find us on social media we are on

Twitter and Instagram at ATWD podcast we have a website and that's whywedrink.com where you can find all of our goodies and information and fun stuff go find our goodies you can also find our YouTube if you are not currently watching it at youtube.com slash c slash atwd podcast uh youtube.com slash c slash and that's why we drink oh lol lol um what else is going on we have an email and that's why we drink

at gmail.com where you can send in your personal true crime and paranormal listener stories and they will go into the running for potentially being read in our next listeners episode we're trying to do doppelgangers this time so we'll see if you guys have any good ones send them in and we always post our listeners uh our monthly listeners episode on the first of every month uh i think that's it i think that's it guys thank you for listening um hopefully i figured out the audio i know everyone's yelling about the audio listen it's a lot of it's a learning we told you we're trying look we told you in episode one on youtube that this would it was only going to get better and then the next time you tuned in we had a green screen and everyone's like well where's the audio and i said look beggars can't be choosers

we're gonna get there someone was like yelling i woke up to this comment about the audio and i just wrote back i'm trying and then I just closed the app. So I probably just yelled at someone and I'm sorry, but like we're trying. It's going to get done. Everything's going to look and sound so much better. Just step by step, day by day. That's at least what we tell ourselves before we go to bed to make ourselves sleep. That's the truth.

So anyway, thanks for listening slash watching, guys. We are so happy you're here with us. And that's why we drink. Bye.