And That's Why We Drink - E148 Fro-Yo Fridays and 15,000 Slices of Dirty Meatloaf

Episode Date: December 1, 2019

Merry Christmas Tanner! Let's all go tap-dance on Em's coattails. This week we both accidentally end up in Salt Lake City, which seems to be a pretty messed up place (no offense, SLC). Em tells the story of Kay’s Cross, arguably the most haunted spot in SLC. It’s full of demons, shadow people, and an alarming amount of cult leaders. Oh, it also exploded. Meanwhile, Christine covers a different kind of horror, the murder of Franklin Bradshaw, a wealthy grandpa with a cardboard briefcase and oatmeal full of amphetamines. We also learn that Em went to modeling school and Christine…well, didn’t. And that’s why we drink!Visit http://rothys.com/drink to get the shoes you’ve been waiting for! Listeners get $60 off on their Embr Wave by visiting http://embrwave.com/drink! Get 30% off your first order at http://thredup.com/drink! Get 10% off during your first three months at http://ritual.com/atwwd!

um hello everybody we are so excited i don't know when does this come out in a million years from now okay we're recording this way in advance um but we're really excited oh i think this comes out the 8th which means that tickets are officially on sale yay for our 2020 tour we're so freaking excited we're very excited um hey guys side note so i am editing now and i'm realizing that this does not come out on the 8th it comes out on the 1st so please disregard that silly mistake uh meaning tickets go on sale for patrons tomorrow on 12-2 and tickets go on regular pre-sale on 12-4 and tickets go on all the sales on 12-6.

Okay, back to the show. We're going to be gone from January to May, just like last time. Yes. Bopping around 25 cities. Uh-huh. Hopefully you can make it. Hopefully you can. And we've said it before.

We're saying it again. The format is different. We are not doing hometown stories this time. It's a big surprise. It's a surprise. But it's going to be worth it. Yes. You'll see.

You'll see when you get there you'll see you'll have to be there to find out do you have anything to update everyone on christine you know i don't really do you i don't either this is so far in advance and yet any update we would have we're gonna be three weeks later like i wish we could have could have inserted something i don't know maybe i'll insert something hello my baby hello my honey that's what i inserted in the future by the way i just put that in this is not happening live that was my future update okay good i inserted it thanks um i yeah first it's not even thanksgiving for us yet so that's so true we're way early this comes out the we're trying to be prepared because now that you guys

know about the tour we are intentionally trying to do as many shows in advance as possible so that way when we get on tour we don't have to worry about trying to record while we're on the road because we are aware that we all sounded very tired and we sounded really like just like out of our minds exhausted and that weird series of episodes that we were putting out while we were traveling last year yeah i don't know if you guys know this but we do see what you write on reddit and places like that and we also experience our actual lives you didn't have to tell us we were tired we knew people were like they're not even friends anymore i was like well i well yeah you're not wrong we're just teasing we were friends we were just very sleepy friends we were just like we're so tired we can barely function it really did feel like we were we unfortunately it felt like we had

to get a job done and it didn't feel fun because we were so stressed. We had so many things we had to do and we don't want that to happen again. So A, we've revamped the tour so that hopefully it's less strenuous day to day and more fun overall. And then B, um, we're also recording in advance and, uh, getting as many done when we're at our peak. Yes. When we're, when we're happy and not sleepy all the time.

And then that way, when we're on the road, and not sleepy all the time and then that way when we're on the road we can actually enjoy the the road yes there were so many times that people gave us such great advice every city tips like oh while you're here you need to try this out it's like we're not going to be able to try it man the worst is when we'd be in town for something they'd be like oh the festival is in town on that day only and i wouldn't be able to see it well fuck like because we were we were in the middle of doing um notes for our shows because i mean we were doing so many shows eventually we like what started catching up to us and we were like doing notes as we were traveling to that city right and we were trying to do notes for our weekly recordings and we were trying to like just make it out alive through all of the airports and like late nights we were doing

so we were just we knew we were running on steam and so we are just trying to get out ahead of that ahead of it so a lot of our episodes are going to now be pre-recorded and so for future for well future for us present for you if we're not talking about something that's currently relevant it's because it hasn't happened for us in real life yet you're listening you're talking to us in the past like the episode we recorded last time that came out that comes out this weekend okay whatever you guys don't know where where the hell we are anymore but an episode that comes out while we're recording now that hasn't even come out yet i talk about rodney reed and then like that was like the whole everything went down with rodney reed like two days later and i was like well now you're gonna have to i sound dumb but so we're gonna sound dumb but at we're going to sound happy and lighthearted and fun. They're like, you're going to sound dumb.

What a novelty. I know. Exactly. So sorry in advance if you want to hear us talk about something that's current, but it hasn't happened to us yet. So we don't, we can't talk about it. I mean, we're not that. We're like several weeks away.

We're not like, you know, many moons. Not yet. But we're still far away. We're trying to get as far ahead as possible. So we'll see how far this race goes. We haven't stuffed ourselves full of stuffing in Turkey yet. So no, we'll get there soon. Other than that, we're very excited to go on tour.

I know that if it's December 8th right now, I'm so freaking amped about Christmas. I know I already got my tree set up. Do you? Well, in the future, you will. In December 8th, I will have it. Put a little G on the tree, maybe? A G on the tree. Yeah, I usually stuff him up there.

The fake G. Not the real one. The fake one. When he's really bad, you just shove him little G on the tree. Maybe a G on the tree. Yeah. I usually stuff him up there. The fake Gio, not the real one. When he's really bad, you just shove them on top of the tree. The real Junie does go up there, unfortunately for everyone. But, um,

are you going home for the holidays? Yes. Um, I'm trying to go home for as long as I can. Yep. To get away from me. I'll need to talk to you about it. Actually about dates.

Just make sure that we're all on the same page. Yeah. I'm going to Connecticut for the first time since blaze and i started dating going to his family for christmas so this will be new for me i get to experience christmas tanner do you remember christmas i know about christmas tanner it's the day before christmas eve yeah because blaze's siblings are named tanner and eve and tanner used to get his feelings hurt that eve had a holiday and he didn't so they invented christmas tanner where everybody plays like precious it's really sweet where everyone plays different games and there's like a whole uh olympics basically and blaze is one of six kids so there's like this whole olympics and it involves like nintendo and then it involves

like physical sports and then it involves like uh mind games i don't know it's all really crazy i haven't been a part of it yet and i'm very very excited and nervous. I'm sure competitive Christine won't come out at all. Oh, my God. Well, when I'm surrounded by I can see them coming out of you right now. And has this idea that I'm some crazy competitive. You're like Monica Geller from friends. I'm really not. You should have seen me bowling yesterday. Like you have this idea that I'm extremely competitive. I'm like, I'm not good enough. I think because I'm so like below the line competitive any version of competition to me is threatening and i'm just like do i compete with like i don't ever like i'm not good enough at anything to be competitive at it i guess is what i'm trying to say and yet i'm sure you i'm

sure you are compared to me i mean i literally was saying i've seen you play that stupid tv game with your brother oh uh drawful yeah you guys get weirdly competitive that's fun it's like pictionary fun whatever whatever just because you don't like games don't rain on my parade okay fair um anyway so i'm excited it'll be fun i don't know it'll be fun to see his family and um yeah i think sherry blaze is the only person left on either side of my family that listens to this show so sherry i can't wait to see you god bless you sherry no anyway so um anyway i guess we go do we do the thing yeah we do the thing okay um let me close this by the way you guys weren't here but um we've had the most insane technical difficulties today the computer just decided to just stopped working stop it was just like that was fun for you wasn't

it because for like a solid two hours in the middle of us recording ads it was like no you don't get to record those anymore and i was like well we've gotta it was like you said rothy's one too many times we're shutting you down all right so my story um oh uh are we gonna talk about how we're not on close friends together i'm sure's going to get brought up at some point by you. So, well, Em, I found out yesterday people were posting like being close friends with Em is the best perk of being a patron. And I was like, huh. Close friends on Instagram. Yeah, sorry.

Not like intimately close. Not like the thousand people on Patreon were suddenly like getting fro-yo with every Sunday. But I would love that, by the way, to be clear. Fro-yo Friday? Fro-yo Sunday. Oh, yeah yeah doesn't have the same ring to it you're right um no so one of the perks of being a patron on patreon is getting in our like close friends list and perk is a relative term some people seem to enjoy it it doesn't have to be a perk for everyone after last night maybe they don't enjoy it but basically it's like a kind of a closed viewing audience where we just post stupid shit that we don't necessarily want to put out publicly and m was posting all these apparently fun videos and

coming up with all these like gags and i'm like somebody posted about it and i was like wait what and i went to m's profile and i was like i don't see anything and then this motherfucker didn't put me on their close friends list i i don't know and i'm goes why am i so bad at instagram i was like yeah you're so bad. You verified Instagram personality. There it is. There must be your lack of technology. I don't I really don't know what it is with you and Instagram, but I just I refuse to include you for some reason, because this is like the third time this has happened. What if somehow you were the one holding me up from being verified?

Like you were like, I forgot that I put it. I actually wrote a very heavily worded message to instagram headquarters and i was like do not ever let this person be verified i wouldn't be surprised i forgot i forgot i submitted that injunction to have you like never verified by the internet like why am i so bad at helping you get verified it's my fault anyway so now i'm finally friends with or close friends with em on instagram and i posted a lovely video about how special of a day it was it's gonna change my life and then em came back at like at least i know what our child looks like and i was like okay we're playing this game now so anyway things have been getting heated on close friends i bet we've been blocked by many people who don't want to see that

anymore but yeah we're past us are saying this as if we still have close friends on instagram they're probably all gone just you and me now that's the irony the full circle of it was not you and now it's only you. The sad thing is you were my first, like literally the only person I had on there for so long. And then I was like, oh, I'm not even on it. I didn't even know. Okay. I'm such a, like a grandparent. I didn't know what close friends was until it got suggested to us that we start using it. Yeah, that's true. And then I was like, what the fuck is that? I didn't know what it was either. I just saw close friends and went, oh, M and I put you in it. Oh, I never used it, but I didn't know what it was either. I just saw close friends and went, oh, M, and I put you in it. I never used it, but. I didn't even know how to, I had to like Google how to add close friends.

Yes. Oh, I did too. It's very weird and confusing. But now that you're in there, everybody, you're in there. So you're in there until you don't want to be in there. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Sorry.

Now we're really going to start. So I brought that up because one of the things I'm trying to do now for my close friends is if you are a close friends is if you are a close friend uh slash if you're a donor on patreon um that's how you become our close friend on instagram and i am now trying to prioritize suggestions from people through close friends yes so i can i steal that because i think that's really a great idea yes to like involve people and i don't want to be like you know i like that i like that we're like yeah yeah yeah i like that i like the permission about you're doing something to your coattails i don't want to be like you know i like that i like that we're like yeah yeah yeah i like that i like the permission about you're doing something to your coattails i don't

know riding my coattails that's the one right away stepping on them cutting them up i don't know but just doing a ritual or something on them tap dancing um so okay but you don't mind if i try that out no because that's a great idea to get like suggestions and prioritize so many i got like 80 in a day. I bet. And like prioritize the people who are like, you know, really involved and close friends to us. So awkward because everyone suggested them.

This story, because we're trying to also do two episodes a week now, this story and next week's story are from the same batch of people. Oh, okay. So I, so I, cause I came here prepared to do two stories today. So until the computer said stories today so until the computer said no until the computer said no come back tomorrow um but the so these stories both came from my first round of asking people on close friends um I tried to figure out the names of the people who asked but by the time I went back to look at my story it had been 24 hours and already

deleted so oh I don't know oh my god no i really should have written down everyone's names first but i think one when i say the name you'll know who you are so i hope you enjoy your pride we're uh it's a learning curve always for us it won't be like this anymore but i for me it might but not for em's learned i'm sorry i'm still tap dancing on em's coattails tweet me or something if you're the person who suggested this and i'll say hi to you okay um so this is the the first story i had never heard of this um i really liked it this is the story of k's cross um which is in utah okay oh my story's in utah too i'm not kidding you gotta be kidding me you taught okay you taught me you taught me so much and i love you i just wrote that you wrote that yourself i did holy shit i wrote it for you specifically i went to your instagram yesterday

because i was mad at you for not adding me not really when are you not mad at me well i'm not mad at you but i went to like check to see if i was your on if i could see your story because people were like posting about it all excited and so i went to your profile and i saw this photo of like you and allison from your uti and i was like oh and i clicked on it because i'm like a stalker i guess and i was like oh this is sweet and i went and reread it i already liked it but like i went and reread it and then there was like a comment from me i was like oh my god and i don't remember writing this at all but it had 1500 likes and i clicked the comment and it said your comment had 1500 yes oh my god i know well you posted 13 000

but my comment like 1500 and it said you're in my heart you're it had rod stewart lyrics but it said you're in my heart you're in my soul i love you ti or something really obnoxious like that and i know i'd posted it sometime in the evening after several glasses of wine and then forgot about it sounds like it was wine o'clock when you sent that because i never i have no memory of that it's almost worse than that time you made me read aloud the song you sang to me about being inside of you that was the worst oh no you're right if you don't know what that is you're welcome like keep that memory out of your head oh my god well still have that card by the way you better to be clear i haven't covered that story on the show yet so like someone you guys coming you'll figure it out one day so uh anyway this

is k's cross this is in apparently this is in kaysville Utah, and that's 25 miles out of Salt Lake City. And I'm so mad now that I didn't know about the story, because when I was covering, when we did two live shows in Salt Lake City, I remember scrambling for a story. Like, I could, like, for some reason, I couldn't find a lot of Salt Lake paranormal stories. Dude, my story is Salt Lake, too, and it's one that I was like, why did I not know about? How are we both ending up with a Salt Lake story? It's so weird how we're so alike. And like the synchronicity. Try not to be, but somehow.

The world refuses to let us be our own independent people. Okay. So this is in Kaysville. It's 25 miles north of Salt Lake City in Davis County. So Kays Cross. I want to, I'm also reading this off my phone and my email because my computer died. It's been a long day. It has.

So some of my notes are kind of jumbled. So I want to make sure I read this properly. But Kay's Cross is in Kay's Hollow. Kay's Cross is a literal cross, like a monument that is in a hollow in Kay'sville. Wow. Okay. So in Kay'sville, there's Kay kays hollow which is like a series of wood wooded wooded spaces okay and in kays hollow is kays cross okay got it do you like how i did a

chop like a cross i liked it a lot and it really um illustrated for me what was going on so kays cross is a 20 foot stone cross in a hollow and it has a large k on it just like the letter the letter k like the letter k is emblemed on it somehow um and like i said this is in k's hollow which is the area but k's cross is um the cross that's in the hollow and it's also the most active area of all of k's hollow i know it sounded really confusing k's cross is the most paranormally active space of the entire hollow. Got it. So many people still, so many people still trespass

in the area to actually see the cross for themselves. And the property manager has just come to terms with that because at some point they had like landowners literally shooting trespassers

with rock salt, with rock salt. But like doing anything to keep these people away and like calling the sheriff all the time and so now the property manager has decided that it's going to uh allow like tours and attractions to go through i don't think it's like a wild like jump scare fun house place but they're at least doing paranormal walkthrough tours of the hollow okay um just because they're like so many people are trespassing

and like at this point it's so out of hand that even the police can't do anything about it so we might as well just be okay like if you can't beat them join them it's like when you let your kids drink under your own roof so you're like at least they can do it in a safe way exactly not that my mother let me do that but just as an example of what some parents i didn't drink but my mom absolutely offered that to me many times. Yeah, I know, I figured. La, la, la. My mom was like, I'm going to be deported.

And I was like, okay. My mom was like, please have fun. And I was like, no, I don't want to drink. And she was like, where did I go wrong? Okay, so people here at the cross say that they have seen faces in the cross. Oh. The cross will apparently um it it's known to glow during a full moon like even from far away you can see it glowing and if you touch

it when it's glowing it will burn you apparently people see uh dog men with literally dog body human-faced creatures guarding the cross what people will see shadow figures hovering uh following you talking to you. They'll see glowing eyes in the middle of the woods. They'll see shadows just peek around a tree. Oh, forget it. And then smile and then hide again. Smile?

They'll see people or people who go there will hallucinate. They'll get violently ill. They'll hear voices in their head and have conversations with someone that isn't there. Apparently, they will also very easily be possessed oh so great over the years um because of this activity um it has brought devil worshipers um that's the phrase that a lot of the internet has used so i'm going to use it but i don't know exactly where what world they live in what constitutes devil right what what the people who actively participate in dark rituals right i'll say dark not like satanism which is right different which is

different and like you know you know good witches you know i'm not saying that it's like there are people with dark intentions dark intentions going to this place to provide rituals that include sacrifices yeah that can't end well um sacrifices no. So people have been going to this area because they know how active it is. And so now they don't even know where these spirits come from because it's not just from the history of the place. It's all these things that have been conjured. Okay. So it's just super dark and you never even know who you're talking to.

You never know what spirits are near you because they might not even be from this world. They might just be pure old demonic great so um to to a point where it's so dark that yes there are animal sacrifices there but people that go there actively report um never having felt this way before but when they walk into the woods um feel compelled to attempt suicide. Holy shit. So nobody knows for sure how the cross, the cross specifically, not just the hollow, people don't know exactly how the cross got there or how it was destroyed.

Because in 1992, now it's just a pile of what the cross used to be. But in 1992, the cross mysteriously exploded to and loud enough for the whole the town exploded exploded like not like fell apart like as if there were dynamite within it and then and the town heard it called the police the police were there within minutes um but nobody's ever been able to explain what happened the when the police showed up nobody ever got arrested the case still remains open um a lot of the locals have said that people in the town actually tried to destroy it together to get rid of the evil that was held there some people say that the property owners and the police actually

teamed up and did it themselves to avoid trespassers whoa that's quite ballsy of the police to blow up a cross yeah and some people say that the cross actually was never touched by anyone and it itself could not contain its own evil anymore and exploded on its own. That was Ems saying that. I said that. I said it the loudest, but other people followed way before me. No, that's really interesting. Okay.

People also don't know how the cross was built, especially since it was in the 40s during the Great Depression era and nobody could have really afforded that much concrete um so whoever did build it wanted it to be a statement and so the theory is that wherever it came from it was very intentional and it wanted to make a point oh so there are three main theories and when i say three main theories i mean there's like 10 urban legends minimum but these were like i tried to compile them as well as I could. And the three main ones, I did my best. But first of all,

the internet surprisingly didn't have a lot of information on this compared to other stories I've covered. And every single article seemed like it had a different kind of like a half version of the story. So you'll see. But I tried to get as many theories down as i could for who actually built this cross so the first theory is that the cross was built um by i'm double checking that i say this right so they think that the cross was built um as a

monument or was built by okay sorry i'm. I know my own brain is freaking out. Okay. So there's a person. You sound like our computer. Oh, no. There's a person named Bishop William Kay. Okay. Kay.

Kay. And Bishop William Kay, he was the founding father of Kaysville. Makes sense. Mm-hmm. They think that either he built the cross or it was a monument in honor of him or it was in honor of his wife slash wives because we're in utah i see okay so that everyone in utah has multiple wives not that every but maybe a little more than other states sure um, and then this story, the story I'm about to tell about why they think that it was about Bishop William Kay, this story also is apparently an urban legend, but instead of

Bishop William Kay himself, it's just the property owner. So I will repeat it multiple times. A lot of people say that Bishop Williamiam k or a landlord depending on the story you heard it's either bishop william k or a landlord lived on this property and had seven wives um and then went crazy one day and murdered all of them what another version is that either bishop william k or a landlord went crazy and buried his wives alive what so also killed them but in just a more gruesome way yeah it's a lot of that's what i'm saying like oh variations of like the same story i know i sound confusing because i don't know how to use my own words but it seems like everything has a slight difference i see what you're saying to the story so i'm trying to cover all of it so

whoever is listening to this at least here's their version in some way. So Bishop Kay or a landlord either murdered their seven wives or buried them alive. In the stories where one of them murdered their wives, they then buried them around the cross. So they'd already built the cross and then buried their six wives around it. And then their favorite seventh wife, they either buried standing upright in the base and sealed her inside what the fuck or another version of the story is they killed her and took her heart out and stuck it inside of the cross i like how the favorite one gets just such vip treatment her heart gets cut out thank you i'm so glad that i thought i was your favorite either bury me alive or stick me upright inside the base or harvest my heart i really it's so romantic i really thought you were gonna say the seventh wife the favorite got to help bury the

other or something like she no it's much worse it's much worse she died oh no so i don't know what version you have heard um off to all the people in utah but it's one of those many versions okay so then after the wives were all buried and one of them may or may not be inside of the cross sure legend has it that he then hanged himself next to the cross god damn it as like penance for his crimes um there are other versions where before he hanged himself he actually summoned demonic wolves to guard the cross once he was gone this is a wild story there's just so many this but this but maybe this but don't forget about the demonic wolves but it's all bad it's

all very bad it sounds like so a lot of people um say that sometimes it's a landlord sometimes in stories it's bishop william k however a lot of locals have stood up and vouched for william k even though like hundreds and hundreds of years ago but uh he people will say bishop k was a good man he was one of the first leaders if not the first leader of the lds and he never killed anybody take that name out of your story it was just a landlord so that's probably where people started shifting i see from calling it bishop william k to the landlord right i mean that's quite some slander if you're literally saying this man this like quote-unquote pillar of the community pillar of the community murdered seven of his murdered and buried and or murdered seven of his and harvested

their organs it was quite a day for him well so i don't know if it i don't know if it's the chicken or the egg i don't know if it was they talked about bishop william k and then it kind of morphed into talking about a landlord or it was always a landlord and they assumed it was bishop k because he was a prominent figure and also because his last name was k and none of us really know what the k on the cross stands for got it okay so i think they were trying to piece that together and they're like oh well william k that would make sense because of his last name and all his dead wives and all seven of his wives and the one without a heart so i know i like jumped everywhere and gave everyone a headache with my attempt at explaining that theory but here's the second one

no i get it the second one is that the cross was actually built by followers of the kingstons so if um you guys don't know the kingstons are a really powerful um polygamist family in utah i don't know if they still are but they were a really prominent family um and they owned the property at the time in the early 1900s oh okay so uh it could be a monument to the kingstons or just a property marker since they literally lived there it makes sense with the k. And Kingston could mean K. But it could also be in honor of them, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So that's a much more simple theory. That's it. Okay, good. That's it. We're done. There's no murder. Okay. So they think in that reason K could mean Kingston.

Interesting. And it could just be because they owned the property. I'm going to just like got on a limb and say maybe I'm going to stick with this one for now. It sounds more realistic, right? Yeah, we'll see. Or at least like less upsetting. Like, I will see what you come up with next.

So the first one, the one with Bishop William K. slash Leon Lord, seems to, from what I'm gathering, I cannot confirm or deny this, but it sounds like that's the urban legend that teenagers have come up with since. And then the Kingston sounds the most realistic. But then number three seems to be the most documented. So the most verified. Interesting. But then number three seems to be the most documented. So the most verified. So number three is that the cross could have and most likely was built by the followers of Krishna Venta.

So which would be the K, Krishna. Sure. So I got most of this information about this theory specifically from a website called The Dead History. And it was very useful because this was a story where I couldn't get a lot of information. And I luckily got a lot from this website called the dead history and it was very useful because this was this was a story where i couldn't get a lot of information and i luckily got a lot from this nice website um so krishna apparently used to be called francis penkovic um and krishna was a cult leader in the 40s and 50s and he claimed to be the second coming of christ um so there was an interview in 1992 the same year that the cross blew up um in 1992 one of the kingstons his name was merlin um merlin kingston says that he actually knew krishna and claims to have helped build the cross himself for krishna in 1946

so if he's telling the truth which i don't know why he wouldn't like a weird lie yeah yeah so if this story plays out and i'm sure there's other evidence elsewhere it confirms that in 1946 it was built for krishna um by a guy named merlin which is so i kind of so here's a quick uh background about krishna he had followers uh build cross for him. The K actually does not stand for Krishna like you would think. It actually stands for kingdom because that was a word that he apparently used a lot in his lectures. Jesus Christ.

And Blaze terrified the shit out of me. Blaze has jury duty and I keep forgetting that he's not going to work. I thought he was going to work afterward. I love you. I love you more. i loved you being here personally everyone loved it it's been the best part of the episode so far no blaze i can't edit your head out i can't like photoshop your head um we can see what happens

let's just put a picture of blaze here i thought the cat was coming you know i was on blaze's head i thought it was a cat and then i saw a human hand and i was like juniper has changed yeah so k actually stands for kingdom because that was actually part of a lot of krishna's lectures okay so another debunked thing it does not stand for krishna um so merlin actually met him through uh so merlin's brother was in the army with krishna so that's how they ended up meeting oh okay so merlin uh says that krishna left the army and i don't know why merlin said this and there's documentation that krishna left the army after only a year that's how he ended up meeting merlin um merlin knew that he was leaving the army to become a traveling minister and so merlin kingston invited him to do lectures on the kingston property um which is and exactly where the cross was built so he ended

up where the cross is is where merlin allowed krishna to give his lectures on the property okay does that make sense yes yeah yeah so there is a rumor i only saw this from one site and this was probably another like urban legend that teens are now saying to freak everyone out teens but there is a rumor that one of the things that krishna did in his cult was he told everyone that the cross once it was built was talking to him and telling him to sacrifice his followers oh no and so oh no when he would sacrifice the followers he would throw them down a well nearby what and apparently people now say that they can see bodies climbing out of the well holy crap how many of the followers could they fit in that well enough that seems like a deep well so krishna actually branched off from

here and started his own foundation called wisdom knowledge faith love foundation of the world or the foundation okay um sounds very cultish yes very cultish and it's to a point where he was like taking people's belongings everyone had to wear robes everyone was barefoot also they were in the bottom of a well at some point maybe they were in a well who's to say oh no um but at the same and then they were also like they all had to combine their money together and so everyone yeah very like, they all had to combine their money together. And so everyone. Yeah. Very like communal type situation. So then Krishna was apparently, despite all of his rules that he made for the foundation and all their members, he was still gambling.

He was still stealing. He wasn't paying his child support. And he was explaining it to the judge that he couldn't pay child support because it was everyone's money now. Oh, geez. And so he couldn't take child support because it was everyone's money now. Oh, jeez. And so he couldn't take money from the group. He's like, I have so much of it, but none of it's mine, even though it is. Oh, my gosh.

And he started sleeping with the members' wives. Well, why wouldn't you at this point? So two of the members were fed up with the fact that he was doing this. And so they tried to actually film him admitting to his crimes. And it didn't work. And so their plan b was a little extra oh and they set off a bag of dynamite what they're like hold on at that moment they were like well i guess this is that our hidden camera didn't work yeah plan the tnt plan a didn't work so plan go. Oh, no. So they set off a bag of fireworks, dynamite. It's not pretty.

It's awful. Dynamite. It's not pretty. They ended up killing Krishna themselves and I think seven other people in the foundation. I think they were women and children. Oh, my goodness. Fun fact. fun fact the foundation continued without krishna for another 10 years until who moved onto the property and forced out the foundation members but charles manson

okay wow that just took me for a little spin yeah so apparently spin cycle krishna actually inspired some of manson's early beliefs sure and manson later made them much more violent obviously um but when the foundation fled so this is three stories all in one because krishna lived on this property when he died 10 years later charles manson moved in charles manson then started getting violent and he scared out the foundation members so they fled the property and they went to the people's temple which was uh i was hoping we wouldn't end up there which was created by jim jones don't drink the kool-aid that was episode two oh my god what was episode one how do i not

know it wasn't it was episode one wasn't it it's episode one why why did i pick jones town as my first one ever that's intense well i was probably going through a phase anyway so anyway there's three stories all combined for you that's nuts wait is this okay i'm gonna sound probably really dumb no too late for me but so krishna is this like the same like hari krishna no no this is krishna venta so how so what he just picked this name his name was francis and he decided that he was gonna create this movement and called himself krishna venta so they weren't the ones that would say hari krishna and stuff oh oh i don't know i don't think so okay i don't i didn't see that anywhere i feel like i was like i've heard some interesting tales about that group too interesting okay anyway i don't want to i don't

want to slander true crimey but i promise that it gets if we get to the ghost i don't want to slander any krishnas around. I'm too stupid to make a decision. So anyway, that was just like kind of a weird fun fact where all these stories combine. At some point, it feels like we're our own Marvel Cinematic Universe, because if we talk about enough stories, they will overlap. It's our universe that we've created. It's our own Marvel. But like so much more fucked up.

where it's our own marvel um like so much more fucked up so uh february 25th 1992 comes around and at 10 p.m like i said the k's cross randomly explodes and this is like 50 years later after it's been built the 90s right this was in the 90s and the cult happened in the 40s and the 50s oh oh so so i was thinking when you said we got they got out the dynamite that it still had to do with the cross but that was no they that so what's interesting is the parallel there is that like 30 not 30 in 58 versus 92 so like 30 years 30 plus years before the cross ever happened his the person who demanded the cross be built was also killed by dynamite i see and so then 34 whatever years later it was blown up by dynamite wow okay weird okay um or by demonic forces demonic forces we don't know but interesting that the cross and the person the cross was built for right both they both exploded um so and people have asked this was another article i saw i saw where someone tried to

actually figure out what happened to the cross um they ended up asking for like original police reports but no one would get back to them the police were being kind of shady they were saying like oh well we weren't part of that county or you would have to go to the sheriff's department and we're not part of that jurisdiction but then the sheriff wouldn't say anything it was very like hush hush whether or not it was on purpose it just came off weird right also they went to city council and there were no document minute meetings uh no documented minute meetings from the week that that cross blew up even though there were a lot of people calling in reporting it it's just weird that like all the archives are gone okay but it did happen right it did happen it's a myth it did happen okay and it's it's still i mean it only happened in 92

there's still people who live in that area who say like oh yeah i heard it i was there um that is wild okay and so fishy that's all we know but based on the lectures that that guy gave and how seemingly or allegedly violent uh his cult either became or their whatever their beliefs were um and then on top of it the fact that there's this random explosion and now there's all these satanic rituals it i've have been told they were satanic rituals i cannot be i cannot. But there were, like, demonic things happening and all this paranormal activity. It's apparently a wildly concentrated haunted area. Okay. I mean, yeah.

Bad things seem to be happening there no matter what. So, like I said, I couldn't find a lot of information on this. So that's all the information Google provided me until I watched the Zach Bagans episode. He went there? Yes. No way! So I actually got, like— I'm actually surprised baggins episode he went there yes no way so i actually got actually surprised for once that he went somewhere he he went and it was a really it was pretty good wow okay so he ends up actually interviewing one of the kingstons who now

owns the property i guess it's been passed down um and his name is joshua kingston and he confirms that the cross was in honor of krishna so for all the people saying, I don't know how the cross was made or why it's there, it seems like the most realistic or well-documented and also verified by the Kingstons who own the property. It seems like the most reliable information. Apparently the tree next to the cross, a man has hanged himself. Plus there's been another suicide

where someone was camping and shot themselves. Well, with the hanging, that kind of combines the urban legend of the K guy. So I wonder how long that urban legend's been around, because maybe it came out after that story. Right, right, right. Maybe somebody kind of pieced it together. Embellished. This whole story sounds wildly embellished in many ways but anyway so uh the clearing under the tree apparently has a lot of activity um the whole area seems to draw people

to go further into the woods and die by suicide holy crap although there have only been two suicides on document on document documented um they ended up interviewing a person named bennett and bennett said they were at the cross for the very first time they've been like 20 times now but um the first time they went was probably the scariest thing that's ever happened to them but they're walking around with a bunch of friends um they felt drawn to the tree behind uh or drawn to the trail behind the tree and to go walk down by themselves. Don't do it.

Bennett said that the spirits felt male and female, so there were two of them, and they were both pulling Bennett. Bennett said that it felt like the female one was pulling them to give them to the male almost as an offering like pulling them down the trail to then sacrifice leading them i'm not sure um but that's what apparently it felt like so ben it goes to the gate bends down and hears someone talking and uh said that the spirit felt male dominant and unfriendly and bennett could hear the voice saying follow me follow me forget it this is insanity apparently bennett's

eyes glazed over and then they began to start throwing up what and apparently at the beginning of this they were super happy like having a great day it was a super beautiful peaceful day and now eyes are glazed over vomiting hearing a dominant man saying follow me follow me and then when someone says what's wrong he's like someone's leading me to be sacrificed and you're like yeah what and it's it is also like kind of very synonymous to like a possession or an attachment i mean like all of a sudden your eyes are glazed back and you're throwing up and then projectile vomiting and then bennett tried to stand up and run away but their legs didn't work anymore and all this they eating edibles i hope so this part's starting to sound familiar to me so ben couldn't move their legs so

bennett's friends had to carry them out and the whole time apparently uh bennett saying that they saw a shadow figure following them back up it was a massive black shadow that did not want them to leave. Felt very angry and very possessive and was pissed off that Bennett was leaving. Thank God they got him out of there. Yeah. So apparently the place is very peaceful during the day. But the second that it's dark out there, apparently the energy totally changes. And everybody. Oh, this was a good quote. Bennett said that this place leaves a toll on everybody. The second that it's dark out there, apparently the energy totally changes and everybody...

Oh, this was a good quote. Bennett said that this place leaves a toll on everybody. Pretty gross. Wait, what? The energy of the place takes a toll on everybody. Oh, sorry. You said gross, so I thought I missed something. No, just gross.

You're just like vomitous. Yeah, I'm just yucko. Got it. So also, Zach interviewed Vincent. Vincent's friends with Bennett. gross like vomitous just like yeah just yucko got it um so also zach interviewed uh vincent uh vincent's friends with bennett and vincent said that he was one of the people that helped carry bennett out um vincent said that it the whole area has its own energy one time vincent found a cow's heart in the woods one time vincent came across actual people in the middle of a ritual and then to get him to leave they poured pig's blood on his car what um he said he didn't believe the cross could actually burn during a full moon like the rumors say and so to prove it just to see what would

happen he lied on it on his full body not just touched the cross and felt if he got burned, but literally lied on the cross while it was a full moon. Went home and had three burn marks on his back that were the shape of upside down crosses. Ew! Wait, so you're saying he laid on it like... Like, it's like a big pile of rubble. Right, okay, while it was on the ground. And he just lied his entire body on it. Oh, ugh.

And then a few hours later... I got confused. I thought you meant he didn't believe it could burn like go up in flames because no no a lot of people say that during a full moon it will burn you if you touch it got it okay and so he lied down on it bullshit and then he got yucky yuck oh in the middle of this interviews uh zach's radio actually picked up random audio and you could hear a woman's voice through it. Say goodnight by itself. That was me.

Goodnight. I don't want to hear this anymore. Goodbye. So under the cross. So they were walking back in after their interviews and Zach stops by the cross and they see something under the cross that is wrapped up in cloth. What? off what um and usually that means it's like remnants of like a some sort of ritual um where like you have to bury or hide what you were using during the ritual to like and so they found it they then open it up yeah like open up this bag of like used ritual items and they found teeth in there. Ugh. Ugh. Talk about vomitous.

For everyone who believes in rituals and bad energy, they did a closing ceremony where, like, they relieved the items from attaching to them or anything. Okay. Just to keep everyone at bay. They ended up going from door to door and asking locals if they, like, knew anything that was going on. Did you lose your teeth did you are your teeth still there um apparently one of the neighbors named mary said that she has

heard uh evil growls in the woods and both of her children have started seeing things in the front yard oh my god mary also says that the previous owners told her that one time i guess they used to have chickens out front, like a chicken coop. And they found all their chickens were missing and went down to the cross and saw them slaughtered and put in a circle around the cross. No! So there are people doing rituals down there who are like sneaking onto property and stealing people's animals. What is wrong with people? So Zach also heard objects crashing and banging during their investigation.

He saw a black shadow run past him the thermal imager actually picked up a heat source in the middle of the woods that was getting brighter and brighter and it ended up being lacrosse which is super creepy that being said rocks do absorb heat during the day so i just want to make that clear but it was very creepy um then billy started acting really weird he said that something tried stopping him from continuing walking. He felt like something was standing in his way. Zach literally says Krista's name. And then something urges Zach to stand on top of the remains of the cross. And he starts acting weird. And he starts saying that he feels really sick.

Oh, no. And then what's really creepy, he kind of, like, goes into a daze, and you can hear Aaron and Nick being like, I think you should come down. And Zach says, I think you should, too, even though, like, no one else is up there with him. So he's talking to the third person. Ew! Okay, that one got me. I thought I was going to make fun of him, but that one spooked me.

And so they were like, what are you talking about? You just said, I think you should, too, as if someone's talking to you through you. And then he started saying that he could see like contorted black shadows walking toward him. For God's sake, no, thank you. And as he's kind of blacking out, he's holding the spirit box and it literally is a woman that in the spirit box says, Kay's cross. What? And then he says, what is under this cross? What is in this area?

Or what does it mean? And the spirit box said, remembering, which is very creepy. Goose cam indeed. Billy starts hearing chanting that nobody else can hear. He's like, how do you guys not hear that? It's so loud. And they're like, we don't hear anything. That's spooky.

So Bill and the fact that he earlier was also acting weird suggests that they were already attaching to him. By the way, who the hell's Billy? He's like one of their camera people. He's one of the, when their crew got bigger, they added like Jay and Billy. Oh,

I don't know about them. Okay. Um, so he started hearing chanting that apparently was so loud that he was bewildered that people did not hear it with him. And then he's like, he starts walking around and he starts, he says,

he says, uh, yes. As if like, he's talking to someone. And, he says, he says, uh, yes. As if like, he's talking to someone. And then Zach and Aaron are like, who are you talking to? He's like,

what are you talking to? You guys have been talking, you guys have been talking to me this whole time. Like I'm answering you. And Zach and Aaron were like, we've been quiet. You're just over there talking to yourself and like responding to something that's not there.

And Billy was like, no, it's what are you talking about? You've been talking to me this whole time. must be so frustrating like you feel like you're being gaslighted and people are like we're literally not it's like we're not speaking and you can hear him go like uh yeah yeah yeah and they're like what are you responding to yuck okay ew and it was using their voices yeah yuck so then at the end you can hear loud growls billy smells rotting flesh which is like absolutely a sign of a demonic presence um you can hear loud growls billy smells rotting flesh which is like absolutely a sign of a demonic

presence um you can hear squealing sounds as uh that were caught on one of their x cameras and you get an evp of a female cackling oh my goodness and that's k's cross that is how have i never heard of this before i don't know i hadn't heard of it either wow okay well we're not moving very far so hold on one moment while i get my laptop okay well my story weirdly enough is also from salt lake so you guys so weird you guys are weirdos you have a lot going on huh i hope salt lake was just really like thinking of us today it must have been hi salt lake hi we had fun at you we did have fun in you on you oh nothing about it it's good that we're saying i hate it at all yeah um but salt lake was fun we did the double shows there in we did september yes oh my oh my how the time has flown okay so this story um is the story of the Franklin Bradshaw murder.

Cool. I don't know what that is. Okay. It's pretty cool. So my sources were New York Times, Chicago Tribune, The Lineup, and a book by Shana Alexander about the topic, which, to be clear, I didn't read the whole book. It's several hundred pages, so I did not have time. But I did find a lot of excerpts, and that's kind of what I used. So this story takes place in 1978 in Salt Lake.

I think the cross was there. Yeah, already? Probably. Wait, what year? 78? Yeah. Okay. Franklin Bradshaw.

He was an oil and auto parts millionaire from Utah whose estimated worth was believed to have been several hundred million dollars. Me too. Yep. Same. Can't even say it with a straight face uh possibly up to 400 million dollars so he wasn't born into wealth he kind of moved he so apparently what he did was he um was smart and he started investing in the auto industry before it like blew up and then when it did not blew up like the cross i blew up metaphorically speaking got it to be clear um and then exploded with talent and success yeah yeah much like you and me much like us again not no straight face um and he apparently set up shop like right at a really tough road where cars broke down a lot oh that's really smart right and so he made like

a shit ton of money selling auto parts and then he built up this kind of empire not not to be confused with the empire are you sure you're not talking about me this might be millions of dollars exploding talent based on the time based on the title you don't really want this to end the way that mine changed my story you branched off into your own path um so he ended up selling all these auto companies or auto parts companies and made a fortune um anyway so he like i said was not born into wealth um he had worked his way up to fortune having been born in a working-class family in salt lake city in 1901 by the 70s he owned 31 auto parts stores and dozens of gas and oil leases in the region but he kept his kind of like um attitude about about being frugal but like to an extreme so he

continued to live in a working-class neighborhood he drove an old beat-up buick he shopped for his clothes at the salvation army only he got his copies of the wall street journal secondhand from a friend because he refused to pay for the subscription. All right. In other words, he was extremely, extremely frugal. That's how it probably helped him keep his millions of dollars. You could say that for sure. I'm sure it helped.

He also continued to work 16 to 18 hour days well into his 70s. So like he was very almost people called him obsessive over his work and his industry and his money to a fault, some may say. So Franklin's workaholic nature took a toll on his marriage. He had married a woman, a farm girl from Idaho in 1924. Her name's Berenice. And they were pretty happy at first but then because of franklin's crazy work schedule and his frugality they when they had children their parenting styles drove them apart so franklin and baronice had four children together and franklin hated that

baronice like doted on the youngest her name was francis and she was born in 1938 oh um he was afraid baronice was spoiling francis rotten not teaching her the value of money um and lo and behold uh so it's like kind of the extremes because francis didn't seem to inherit any of her father's hard-working tendencies or frugality um she developed an intense entitlement to money uh and after high school she was sent to brynmar but she was caught stealing from classmates and forging checks so she was kicked out okay and she was told she could only return if she received psychiatric help but instead she moved to manhattan where despite having no real income she lived in a five-star hotel on the upper east side called the barbizon hotel for women barbizon yes i went to modeling

school in barbizon god damn it maybe this is about you i went to barbizon modeling school in Barbizon. God damn it, Em. Maybe this is about you. I went to Barbizon modeling school. I knew that name sounded familiar. That was that, like, God, Linda is an interesting creature, I'll tell you that much. Look how I turned out, Mom. Aren't you so proud? The most beautiful model in all the land.

Modeling school really did exactly what it was supposed to for me. Holy shit. Anyway. G anyway glamour shot if anyone asks i'm a clown model yeah you've really i have a i have a what is a multi-hyphenate yeah multi-hyphenate i've got like reverend model clown uh-huh i'm sure many others ghost hunter we're lucky to have you in our presence listen i'm happy to be here meanwhile you're telling me i'm competitive i'm just sitting here like attempting to learn how to bowl over 70. You learned a second language. I think you already win when it comes to talent.

Okay. I learned a second language. I think learn is a relative term. Thrust upon you. It was thrust upon me. Barb is on Hotel for Models. Well, yeah, that's the one. So she also shopped at Tiffany's, where she was known to buy $40,000 pairs of earrings at once, like just in one trip.

She sat on the board of the New York City Ballet, where she donated a lot of money, even though she didn't really have it. And she lived an overall lavish lifestyle. Meanwhile, her dad, one of the richest men in the country, and he was actually known as Utah's Howard Hughes, was still living his frugal life. He was like completely the other extreme. So he drove this rusty pickup truck. He was still buying his clothes at thrift stores. And he used an empty Coors beer carton as a briefcase. That's like ultra dad.

Like extra. It's not even like he goes to like Kohl's and buys like the discount briefcase it's like he literally won't buy he uses cardboard instead that really is like a dad power move right yeah that's like finger guns on a tractor dad power move in your like jorts you are multi-hyphenate you're gonna get there someday and we're gonna be like you've hit every extreme of the talent spectrum there's nothing my dad loves more than a pair of jorts and he recently uh he started cutting his pajama pants into into shorts now he calls them ports or something oh my god he's just like such a fucking dad i can't handle it oh and he'll say like jorts but like p jorts like pajama shorts pajorts yeah that's insane anyway i guess my dad wears like only

pastel colors so i don't know what's worse but they've all got a crux yeah so she lived off her dad's money um to his chagrin until she met and married a man named vito gentile in 1958 he was a gem dealer which is much like what i consider myself in 1997 when I was selling rocks and pretending they were geodes. I was also multi-hyphenate. Sure. Well, you were in modeling school. I was selling rocks. Business woman.

To my neighbors. Yeah. Door-to-door geode salesman. That's me. And proud of it. Look how far I've come. Okay, let's see. so she married that guy um they had two sons lorenzo and marco who were born 10 months apart in 1959 and when the marriage failed francis

refused to consider work and again relied upon her parents for support oh gosh um especially secret bounties from her adoring mother is what they called it secret bounties yeah that sounds like a lifetime flick it does sounds like something i want i would like someone to give me a secret bounty though i guess like if you're talking about the candy bar sure um okay so once they got divorced um she also renamed her sons larry and mark instead of lorenzo and marco she took the italian right out of him wow i know um and she got married again in 1969 uh this time to a dutchman named frederick schreuder and they had a daughter together uh before divorcing as well but francis changed her name to francis schreuder and then mark and larry took that last name too so she changed their

first names and then she gave them a new last name so these so they just were not even they just have totally different names than who they were yes they're basically being dragged through all of this got it um during the summer of 1977 uh francis sent larry and mark who were 16 and 17 and they were really close um to salt lake city to work for their grandpa at the auto parts warehouse for the summer their grandpa franklin Franklin, at this point, he's 76 years old, but he's extremely involved in his business still. He comes in early every morning. He actually worked so obsessively that over the last 35 years,

he had rarely had dinner with his family. Wow. They counted on one hand how many times he actually had dinner with his family. Wow. According to author Shana Alexander, Franklin followed the same routine each morning. He ran a tepid bath. Good start.

Cozy. Did 31 pushups. Specifically. He ate oatmeal with evaporated milk. He dropped a chunk of meatloaf into a brown paper bag for lunch. Ew, without like a plate or anything? Plop. This guy uses cardboard as a briefcase.

Yikes. This can't be as a briefcase. Yikes. This can't be sanitary. No. Then he headed to the warehouse. So the author, Shana Alexander, did the math. She said it was 15,055 tepid baths and 15,055 pots of oatmeal. And slices of dirty meatloaf. Dirty meatloaf.

Yikes. Oh, there's all sorts of euphemisms in this story. I can't handle it. Oh, my God. Yikes. So one morning, as Franklin walks into the warehouse before all of his employees, as he did every morning, employees as he did every morning a gunman approached him from behind shot him twice in the head with a 357 magnum before emptying his pockets and fleeing the scene wow he was left on the floor of the warehouse to bleed out before his employees later found him as they arrived for work

and there's photos of this and he's laying on the ground like his face is in shock and his arms are out and um he'd been shot once in the base of the head and once in the back and it was a messy kill let's put it that way very very very fucking traumatic so his employees found him that way obviously called the police and based on the scene and the robbery they suspected a transient who wasn't local to the town had committed the crime but then a year later i mean this is just i don't even know how to explain to you how this happened but the murder weapon surfaced in manhattan so what happened was i guess i'll just explain to you so francis had a friend who she owed who it

was actually a high society coach uh-huh who taught her how to be like i guess these people exist socially yes who teach you how to be a socialite. And she owed this man $6,000. And he kept saying, you owe me this money. And she refused to pay him. And so she refused so often that he got pissed off and called the police and said, hey, by the way, Francis gave me this gun. That is not high society. I think something happened.

And they looked at the gun i went this is the gun that killed her father so that's how they found it in manhattan i see she had been in possession of it when they trace how can you first of all if you're gonna give your gun to anybody when it's a murder weapon why would you give it to the person that is judging your state of caliber literally caliber caliber wait a minute but i mean let them all laugh okay but truly like if if the only person whose whole job is to just judge the shit out of you until you're perfect and you're like by the way take this dirty used gun everyone else your society you're socializing with like your literal your whole life years criticizing

your life until you have perfected it. If you'd given, you know, your Barbizon modeling coach a knife. Right. And then like, just hang on to that. Hold on. Don't worry. I murdered my somebody with this. You understand. You get it. You're high society.

Make me look good. I wonder how high society a high society coach is, though. Like, I wonder. Right. You know, I mean, like how like an athletic coach might not even be athletic they're just good at coaching right maybe that's what i kept yelling at bowling yesterday when i was losing i just kept yelling i'm just a good coach and trying to tell everyone how to bowl and they were like please stop nobody wants i don't know because if you think about i'm going gossip girl here but if you think about like

serena right and blair that's true like they wouldn't just have like some like piss poor coach to tell them how to like but yeah but who high society would be like yeah i agree to like coach people you know what i mean like nobody who's really high study wants to like maybe maybe it's like a i would imagine if you're high society and you're actually from it and grew up in the culture and then you like retire and have nothing to do you could coach the next generation but that's when you play like croquet oh right you know you're right i don't know listen i'm not high society enough to know oh that's that explains it that's why i can't give you the answer oh i see okay maybe someday we'll we'll find a coach anybody out there okay serena serena help me vanderwoodson oh I wish. Okay. I don't, actually, because this all sounds terrible.

All right. So, anyway, a year later, the murder weapon surfaced. He was like, she gave it to me. So, they traced it, and they discovered that the gun had been bought in Texas by Francis' son, Mark Schroeder. Franklin's own grandson, Mark Schroeder, who was 16, had purchased the gun that had shot him in the back of the head. Interesting. And he was working there that summer. So Mark was arrested and charged with the murder of his grandfather.

When questioned, he told police this was not his doing. It was his mother's. Turns out this was not the only attempt on Franklin's life that summer. Oh. this was not the only attempt on Franklin's life that summer. Oh. While Mark and Larry had started working for Franklin in Salt Lake that summer, their mother, Frances, had begun to worry.

So she's back in Manhattan, but she starts to worry that she's being disinherited. So her father, Franklin, threatened to cut her out of the will. He demanded she get a job, but she, you know, liked her ballet lifestyle, whatever she was doing over there. So she took matters into her own hands. First, she sent her son's amphetamines to put in her father's oatmeal oh no in an attempt to give him a heart attack that didn't work uh apparently not so instead she pressured them into stealing upward of two hundred thousand dollars in stocks and cash throughout the summer so they over that couple months managed to steal 200 grand in like valuables from their grandfather

awesome and it wasn't in his it couldn't have been like his actual stuff because clearly he had a cardboard beer briefcase so i don't know what they were stealing but uh she also hired a hitman she went as far as to hire a hitman and mark had actually taken his grandfather's photo in secret to give to the hitman to be like here murder him and they paid him and the guy took the five grand and ran so that didn't work either kind of the best version of a hitman story i can think of that's true everybody well yeah don't murder anybody no don't murder anybody um yeah she she clearly wasn't good at this she needs another coach i think um other plans uh included setting the warehouse on fire and one of the plans was to drop a toaster into his tepid bathtub

god they're thinking of everything here everything that like wiley coyote's done they're trying to do like drop an anvil on him but like how in god's name he's taking his bath well you're gonna just barge larry and mark are gonna barge in and drop a toaster and plug it in they gotta plug it in you gotta like really wire out a lot of electric, like a lot of extension cords. Like have it, you got to like, like reel it out and then throw it in once it's already plugged in. Don't, you're coaching them all. Right. I'm sorry.

I'm too good at being a coach. Yeah. We got to pay you first. Of high society. Before you give us those, those really hot tips. But so obviously that, that didn't happen either so instead mark just purchased a gun and shot him in the back of the head i mean it's just fucking terrible his own grandfather so francis was obviously arrested as well and she was put on the trial

for uh for the court on trial for the murder of her father when mark testified he told the jury all about the above plots that his mother had masterminded, as well as the fact she told him he would have no home to return to if he didn't kill his grandfather that summer. Oh, my God. Yeah. What a catch. What a fucking. What a catch 22. Sort of.

That's not really what it is. I was like, I'm just going to go with it. I was thinking hard and like rock and hard place. That's right. That's right. That's a good. I was like, I'm going to just I'm just going to roll this this one out but it didn't work yeah i mean i like i like where you were going with it thank you um he arrived in new york with the deed done and mark said for the

first time in his life his mother hugged and kissed him and said she was proud of him oh yeah so fucking twisted twisted shit uh he told the quote, if she wanted you to do something, it was very difficult to say no. You didn't say no to mom. But I want to be clear as well that Mark and Larry were not angels either. According to Shane Alexander's book, Mark and Larry apparently delighted in torturing their grandparents. Uh oh. When Mark was eight, he stayed with Berenice, who tried to limit his TV watching. He went after her with a butcher knife

okay yeah meanwhile at school larry had taken to dropping on all fours and barking like a dog at his classmates that one's not as bad that's that's the i hope that's the worst it gets from now on unfortunately not um the nuns told his mother that he had tried to gouge out one another child's eyes with scissors and he was asking little girls to take down their panties absolutely not so they were troubled children at a young age so by the time they were 16 uh they were not well-behaved children um kelseprese yeah kelseprese apparently the year before the murder larry and mark had also gone to salt lake for the summer to work at the warehouse and they kept threatening to quit because obviously they're like not they were not taught to

be like hard workers i mean their mother's literally like this is bullshit can i go home now forty thousand dollar earrings right so they were like we're not we're fucking doing this like we have money we don't need to work so instead this year and since the grandmother was like so doting on them and stuff this year the grandmother berenice, let Larry stay at home and sleep in each morning, and she paid $3,500 for him to take flying lessons instead. Of course. Why not? Why the hell not? I mean, croquet and flying lessons.

That's what this life's all about, I guess. When do I get there? I don't know, man. Maybe someday. Maybe someday. As we gaze into the audience for help. Help! Give me $3,500 a day for pilot lessons.

Did you ever take a pilot lesson? No! I did. It scared the hell out of me. How did you do that? Don't you have to, like, go to school first? Well, I went to... My stepdad got me flying lessons when I was 18.

17 or 18? 18, yeah. And so I did a couple flying lessons. Did you ever fly a plane? Yes. Good for you. I mean, not by myself. There was another instructor there, but yes, I did fly it. But then I was like, this is right. I don't like to fly in general. So I was like, this is not a hobby. I think I want to, especially when you're in case I'm like only something besides you can sit in like props to everyone who can do that. I just am too anxious to be controlling something that high up in the air. I'm going to leave that to actual pilots and stay on the ground as often as I can.

Cool. Yeah. So but that was a fun gift for that summer. I can't believe you flew. Yeah, I did. Were your arms tired? Yes. Finally.

Finally, you appreciate my joke. Thank you. Now that I'm your close friend, I think you finally get. Oh, you're also my high society coach. Yeah, I'm really good at it, clearly. Anyway, so Larry had also apparently been to jail before. He had served time for bludgeoning his college roommate with a hammer. Holy shit.

Nearly killing him, but not quite killing him. Oh, thank God. So thankfully, the guy survived, but also he went to jail for that, obviously. god so thankfully the guy survived but also he went to jail for that obviously uh mark was uh so mark was the one who had shot his grandfather admittedly so he was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 12 years in prison he was also 16 so like for that reason and because his mother clearly had forced him to do it he was charged with second degree murder a year later uh his mother was put on trial and he testified against her she was actually arrested in her luxury upper east side manhattan apartment after police forced their way past her french maid oh uh-huh according to the la times that is how

she was arrested um she was charged with first degree murder since this was like her mastermind plot i guess mastermind is really a relative term i think um perhaps the wildest part of this whole trial this whole story is that her mother fully funded uh her trial and her attorneys and said she's innocent like the widow like franklin's widow uh funded this whole thing she funded the entire defense provided francis with a million dollar trust and ensured that she was set for life no matter what happened. During Francis' trial, Mark testified that his mother had told him, quote, It's not really killing. It's the right thing to do

for us. Which really, you couldn't come up with a fucking more compelling You know, she's sticking to her guns. That's... It's not really killing. It's good for you. It's just useful to the rest of the family it's just amphetamines and your grandfather's oatmeal it's just killing him with a gun i mean god damn it these people are nuts okay so anyway uh but despite the funding

and her mother's insistence that her daughter that like bernice's insistence that her bernice is that how you say it i don't know i think it's bernice i think i'm saying it wrong i'm so sorry i've always thought it was bernice it's spelled like b-e-r-e yeah n-i-c-e okay i don't know whatever so despite bernice insisting that her daughter had been framed and it was her grandsons who were at fault francis was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to 13 years in jail oh she was not put on death row though oh although the attorney did try oh mark got out of prison in 1994 after serving 12 years and francis got out um in two years later in 96 after serving 13 years so neither of them could have been the culprits of the exploding cross at least we know that two people have been checked off the list um the year francis was released from prison at the age of 58 her 92 year old mother bernice

passed away believe it or not despite having multiple siblings so alive and literally having been in prison for the murder of her father francis was the main beneficiary of her mother's you've got to be kidding me. They had some weird bond. I did not like it. Yes, I know. Because at first it's like, oh, the little one gets spoiled. But it's like, whoa, that went too far. Yeah.

And she inherited everything that was left of her father's estate. According to Bernice's will, Frances would receive lifelong income from half the remaining estate, as well as a luxury condominium in Salt Lake's Avenues District, a safe deposit box full of jewelry, and her mother's full-length fur coat. All of these things, the condo, the jewelry, the furs, had been bought with Franklin Bradshaw's money after his death. So, like, he wouldn't allow any of this to be spent during his life. Of course.

So his wife went crazy when he died and bought everything. His own wife confessed that he'd have quote died a second death if he knew how she was spending his money how charming that's the worst to have worked that hard your entire life for someone else to use it so willy-nilly yeah and it's it's actually really fucked up because um well i'll tell you in a minute but so this her siblings were like frustrated and like disappointed and they actually tried to file a court like to try to sue to be like can't she can't she was in prison for killing him and now she has his money but since it was bernice as well they were like we can't do anything about it it's her money technically um so they

were disappointed but they weren't really surprised um according to them francis and her mother like you said had always had a quote mutually manipulative relationship. Sounds healthy. Yes. Her sister Elaine told the LA Times, quote, Francis is the big winner. Nobody who ever met Francis Schroeder can truly believe that crime doesn't pay. Sometimes it just takes time. Which is, like, so disheartening. Both her sisters tell the same story,

that the only person to cry at their mother's passing was Francis. The rest of the family was relieved that she passed peacefully and had lived a long and happy life but frances wept because she had been pestering her mother for a car and now she didn't think she would get it oh my god yeah oh my god she's not a great lady uh one of my favorite comments in the la times article was from her sister marilyn who said she's got the jewelry and the fur but where is she gonna wear them I was like oh at her gala duh so she's such in prison high society not anymore man maybe she could just be high society in jail I mean actually she was I'm sure there's the popular kid in jail I'm not kidding she was you know why well okay I'll tell you okay I'm sorry okay you're not wrong so unfortunately for francis despite her

father having been worth hundreds of millions of dollars like we said by the time her mother passed there was barely any money left in the 18 years since franklin had died her mother had quote traveled extensively lived lavishly and gave millions to westminster college and the arts oh my god she even funded a state prison college education program for $110,000. Frances was its first graduate. So she literally did like an education program at the prison where she her daughter was just so her daughter like had something to do. That's so stupid. OK.

So, yeah, her mother was still just like putting her up basically in jail. She actually got two sociology degrees. Believe it or not good for her so she uh so bernice had also spent nearly two million dollars on attorneys during the trials of her daughters and grandson so with all of this although the details of the trust were confidential francis's sisters estimated to the la times that it couldn't have been more than a couple million dollars if that left over which of course is a lot of money still but not compared to 400 million dollars right can you i don't even know how someone spends 400 million dollars i mean you must just be and she's giving it away like she's like truly here's the ballet wants money like apparently they made the new york city ballet got like the highest contribution

it's ever received from her in the history of the new york city ballet and i'm like what in the world wow because oh because francis's daughter did ballet like not like professionally like as a child but oh my god i don't know did your mother give 350 grand to uh barbizon modeling school she gave more than she should have though what about loves and laughs college loves and laughs i think was a cheaper a cheaper degree than modeling? Than my modeling degree. I actually didn't even get my degree. I walked out of there. Oh, God. I didn't even get to walk in there.

My mom was like, nice try, lady. You know who else did Barb's on modeling? Ashton Kutcher. That doesn't surprise me, really. See, you two are in good hands. Listen, I know. Yeah. I mean, I'm a model school dropout, but.

Oh, you guys are both. Which, by the way, it was also, it was not just modeling school. It was also beauty school. So I'm a literal beauty school dropout. Okay. There's a song written about you. I'm not surprised. And it's not cosmetology school.

It was like, it's not that fancy. It was like, it was like very much like a cotillion school, like acting and modeling school. Yuckaroo. it was terrible yeah my mom was really desperate to like make me do a uh a hobby like no like to have a hobby like all my friends were like playing sports and i was like i'm not playing a sport or like playing and you would do modeling my no at that point my mom was forcing me into these things i was forced into playing the fucking piano which now it doesn't sound so bad. I begged my mom to do any of those.

And she was like, look at you. No offense, but she was like, look at you. I mean, listen, she was brutally honest from the start. She's German. But yeah, we really should have swapped moms sometimes. I don't know. Things might have turned out real weird. Maybe.

They're already pretty fucking weird. But me in modeling school doesn't work out for anybody sorry either don't worry yikes um i was literally selling rocks and playing the piano god damn it i was such a dork compared to you okay that's okay look we're all popular now right m yeah we ended up in the same place in the empire yes the christine chapel okay sorry yada yada yada so although the so there was only like max a couple million dollars left um and like this it's not a lot compared to 400 million dollars especially when it's going to someone who's spending 40 grand on a pair of earrings like right that's not gonna last her very long if the if her mother spent hundreds of millions of dollars in 18 years like 2 million is not going to last her

very long right right right also after inheritance taxes she actually only received about half of the total and it was paid out in yearly increments so like she was very limited with her money but only eight years later unfortunately in 2004 francis schroeder died of lung disease at the young age of 65. According to an article called The Greedy Heiress in New York Daily News, quote, Frances would have adored her newspaper obituaries. They described her as a Manhattan socialite. And that is the story of the murder of Franklin Bradshaw. Wow. I just love that quote.

She would have been so happy to hear that she was described i'm sure she would have i'm sure she would have a greedy heiress that's what they call me yes it is glad you found out we were talking about you behind your back but now that you know well thank you for that story oh my anyway salt lake you got a little spotlight on you today for better for worse consider this a live show um well thank you salt lake for those stories thank you uh for people and close friends who suggested those stories yeah um thank you christine for telling your story thank you for telling your story you're welcome uh i guess that's it that's it come see us live we we cannot wait uh happy

holidays if you're someone who celebrates a winter holiday. Yay. And hopefully we'll get to see you in your city soon. I think that's it. Yeah. Go to That's Where You Drink dot com. Everything's there. It's all there.

Follow us on ATWWD podcast. Everything else is there. Yay. And join our Patreon if you want to be a part of our close friends. Or a weird group. If that still exists by December 8th. Okay. I guess that's it.

That's it. And that's why we drink yay