And That's Why We Drink - E155 A Teatime Seance and Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Next Big Hit

Episode Date: January 19, 2020

Don't worry, it's not me, it's not you, it's Houdini... This week Em is bringing us the first in their two part series on Houdini and his badass involvement in 1920s spiritualism. After which Christine takes on the lesser known cold case of the Tweed Morris triple murders. Do you smell the rats before the incense too? And that's why we drink!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com/DRINK2 and get 2 free months of Premium Membership!Order 5 pairs of glasses and try them on for free for 5 days! Head to warbyparker.com/drink For 20% off your first purchase, visit nativedeodorant.com and use promo code DRINK during checkout!Go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in DRINK - never go to the post office again!

hey m hello happy new year happy new decade it's 2020 we said this in the last episode but now it's actually 2020 yeah well we did also our listener episode for the first of the year but now right this is our first real episode of the year anyway no it's not well never mind episode for the first of the year. But now it's our first real episode of the year. Anyway. No, it's not. Well, never mind. This is the first one we're recording in 2020. That's for sure.

That's true. That's true. That's true. Hi, kids. Can't wait to see you. Well, so when you're home, speaking of which, I would like to introduce a new member of the And That's Why I Drink family. I'm not pregnant.

Oh, my God. This is Skylar. Oh, Skylarlar here's the thing about skylar okay i wasn't gonna mention skylar but if you want me to roast the shit out of you publicly do you think my dad just fainted should i call an ambulance my dad probably just had a heart attack i think he's about to when he finds out who skylar is okay maybe he's so here's the thing i've mentioned the skylight and christine's in our studio a few times because i said christine's spare room i mean our studio um so there's a skylight in here and usually when we uh start the way that we're set up or the way it used to be set up is i would sit right under the

skylight so when dusk happened and the sun was starting to set it was always in my eyes it was very painful nowadays the new thing about the skylight is for like how long have you lived here now christine two and a half years two and a half years she has never once cleaned the skylight well what the fuck am i supposed to do clean a skylight in the spare room it's i mean it's kind of hard to get to but and that means you know why i don't clean the goddamn skylight because you show up here with confetti cannons and then walk out the door and say good luck cleaning all that i'm surprised there isn't confetti in the dust collector i'm sure there is so this skylight is really just gnarly there's a spider web that's been growing for two and a half years well and every time it used to be like a little spider web and i was like oh there's something there one day she'll dust it and then it got bigger and bigger and i was like i don't think she's ever

gonna dust it and then one day i mentioned it to her and she was like oh i've never noticed that now that i'm sitting in this direction it's pretty wild and then since then i've got i've grown attached to it and so now we were saying what if there's a little spider up there and christine was like surely there is and i was like we should just clean that she was like no i named the spider and i was like you have what on earth is a spider skylar because the skylight so but it didn't occur to me i just screamed she literally screamed the name skylar hoping it would land and it worked you were threatening to get rid of my pet and then i was like well i he has a name and you're like well what is it and i don't even know if the skylar

is the spider or skylar is the whole web i'm named the the web deb so that's a whole difference skylar the spider and dub the web but deborah the webber but as a whole web i'm named the the web deb so that's a whole difference skylar the spider and deb the web but deborah the webber but as a whole unit i think we just refer to the skylight space as skylar's spot now so yeah this is skylar's room this is definitely skylar and i'm not pregnant to clarify again once again so apparently we are really just building up quite the collection one day someone's gonna give us like an abstract collage of random creatures that we've taken in like now because you know it says that all mummified fruits and all furry pets and all to be clear i'm not a spider fan for people who are wondering if i'm like into like spiders but like who in the world is wondering if you're in because i because my stepsister's

like she has like two tarantulas and stuff like there are spider people out there i'm not one of them i'm not either but this is named this one skylar also the reason i love skylar currently is because i've never once seen skylar if i see a spider come out of that damn thing i'm gonna lose my mind that's scarier because you're like where is he he's the invisible man behind you maybe anyway anyway so there's skylar that's our new friend skylar and um I do love that I just I'm like one of those I just like collect uh creatures dust oh and dirt uh I guess I was listening to some old episodes recently uh don't ask me why I've been in a weird headspace and I listened to some old episodes um and I happened to listen to two of the ones where I saved bugs I'm sure there were many more but

two of the ones where I saved bugs and the first one i was crying because i was in the kitchen like and you were like christine just throw it in the trash and it was episode i don't know really early like negative five like negative five and you kept saying throw it away and i was like i have to dry his wings off first you're like it's a gnat it's revolting to me i like i'm also not a bug person if you don't have either like i don't enjoy having insects well i do have skylar so i can't talk i i take it all back so but anyway so and then also the grossest part was as we were talking about skylar we got we were like so happy and then all of a sudden like a draft came through and the uh the web started waving like it was rippling it deb was waving to us it was rippling and so we were like oh look skylar's waving and then we just started waving to the wet we're 27

and 28 years old and there's no children here we're trying to like play make believe with we legitimately waved at a spider like we weren't doing it as a joke we were waving to hello and then we it stopped waving we're like why won't it wave back anymore like real crazy people like we pissed skylar off anyway it's getting bananas i don't know why this is happy new decade nothing's changed new year old me as you can tell we've grown a lot of people right right right um so uh how are you doing i'm okay i i haven't i haven't spoken on here since I was home. I went to Virginia. That was fun. Oh, God. A lot has happened. I went to... What did you do for New Year's, Christine?

I stayed home by myself with Skylar. Yeah, with Skylar. And I had actually four animals in the house, and I guess five if you include Skylar. And I did a little ask me anything for my close friends. And at first, I didn't think anyone was responding because I didn't know how to check the answers. And so for half an hour, I was like, I am the biggest loser on the planet it's new year's eve what kind of cocky asshole do i think i am i'm like hey guys let's hang out and no one's responding but there were a lot of people chatting with me so i had fun what about you um i was in richmond with deirdre and all my hometown friends you went to a roar in 20s

i did we had reserved early on a club there was like a bar bar club lounge place that uh was decked out to apparently we were all supposed to dress like we were from the 20s you did have suspenders i had suspended i actually had a costume change only in the suspenders i had two suspenders i had a like a like a classic 1920s black pair and then that was during pre-gaming and then when we went out I uh had neon green light up led suspenders so there was a costume change but the pre-game was very fun I learned a playlist that um I then introduced to Christine we had a birthday party for Blaze that I told you guys about but it was not a surprise party because I realized pretty quickly Blaze hates surprises so I was like i'm just gonna tell him about his party it was fun though it was a

blast thank you christine had fun christina a lot of fun at that party nope christine let her let her uh freak flag fly and we can put it that way uh i kept whispering things apparently i don't know first of all by the way the playlist that we were listening to it was a 1920 it was 1920s music but remix for now that was a deirdre recommendation it was pretty cool i will say alison did the charleston my fucking girlfriend can do the charleston it was pretty wild it's bananas my fucking ex-roommate can do the charleston can you believe it okay well also anyway for this party uh alison and i were i think the first to arrive and then we were the last to leave and once we were the last to leave. And once we were the last to leave, Christine had had a little wine. And I guess she hadn't had a lot of wine recently.

So it hit her. It actually was not wine. It was my brand new invention. Oh, it wasn't like a combination of everything you owned? I made my own jungle juice. It was like the kitchen sink. It was awful. I made jungle juice.

And then I kept running out of... Not that I tasted it. It looked awful. The bowl was so large because I went to Party City. And I bought the largest bowl they had thinking oh this will fit my punch and then i put all the ingredients in and i went oh my god it's like an eighth full and i'd gone to costco and bought like the giant two liter vodka so i just put the entire thing in there and it finally filled up glug glug it was delicious and the party went on and so allison and i were the last ones and christine was like i totally forgot to like bring out um blaze's ice cream cake earlier so like everyone's gone but like the

four of us are here and i was like well i guess we're eating some ice cream i guess so and christine was holy shit drunk no i wasn't no you weren't you were holy shit tipsy i don't remember it you were i must have been you weren't sober you were not sober i haven't had that much drink in a very long time but you were like fun christine like there it wasn't like a there wasn't a bad version like you were in the good zone and misses me when i love drunk christine and there's no one i love more on earth than drunk blaze and they were when they're drunk together it's a powerhouse and they were both drunk i was having such a blast i was like alison we cannot leave i don't know and i'll get this again i was so glad you were still there because Blaise's brother went to bed in the adjoining

room five feet over. And I was like, thank God you guys are here. No, I had a blast. And then no one except me and Allison wanted to eat the cake. So Allison and I basically ate a whole caramel cake. Oh, I was eating that because I found frosting down my neck the next morning. I have videos on my phone of Christine. Literally.

I'm not kidding, Christine. You put your entire face in the cake. No, I didn't. Do you want the video? No, I don't want the video. You had your whole face in the cake i didn't do you want the video i don't want the video you had your whole face in the cake and then apparently there's videos she shoved her face in the cake and then she tried to lick her own face but she couldn't reach any of it because she was trying to lick her fucking face and then her hands were covered in like the

blue car bell stuff her nose she had a big blotch on her face and then i started whispering and then she started whispering things um i woke up the next morning and thought, I was whispering in Allison's ear. I have no idea what I was saying. She was trying to play telephone by herself. Nobody else was playing. Because it's my favorite game. But she would whisper things, hoping the rest would announce things. I was like, I'm playing telephone by myself.

Apparently, she whispered to Allison that Zach Bagans, Robert the Doll, and Peggy the Doll all hate me. It's like, why would you say that?'s my subconscious anything mean my subconscious thoughts are like let's bully you if drunk words are sober thoughts you have some weird ass thoughts well also surprised so then at the end like everyone else was done eating cake and i was like all right free for all like i'm gonna eat the shit out of this cake oh my and i started like digging in and i guess christine without saying anything like no didn't say like oh you're done with that she picked it up as i have like my fork in the cake she picks it up and she's like blaze what are we gonna do with this cake and she's holding it and swaying

and she flips the whole cake upside down right onto me it was that part i do remember i suddenly sobered up real quick because i just looked at it I was like, that should be in my fucking mouth. And it's in my lap. I remember because your eyes, when I pulled the cake away from your fork, your eyes darkened to a point that I had never seen in my life. And I remember my food. And then so, of course, I wobbled. And then, oh, dear.

The whole thing. Imagine one like sheet cake of Carvel ice cream cake. And like it's half eaten mostly by me and i'm not done and my fork is in there she rips it away while the fork is in the cake no goddamn reason for no reason just to hold it and then flipped it upside down and then i just and then she tried to pick it up but she forgot that it's literally just sitting on a cardboard slat so she tried to pick it up by literally just picking up the cardboard part and throwing that away and now there's just all this cake on a table that i can't eat anymore and then i was like you can still eat it and you're like i'm not eating that i don't want any part of that anymore christine

um so and i had just by the way i just cleaned her entire house and then she threw an entire fucking cake across the kitchen yeah so blaze is 30 now welcome to this life welcome to this life thank you m for being the best party take me out party guest ever anyway uh i also wanted to announce that i it's this has been driving me crazy i pronounced sisyphean wrong i'm sorry i'm really upset about it it's pronounced sisyphean not sisyphean or whatever the fuck i was saying i like your way better thank you it's a lot more syllables she sells seashells down by the seashore sisyphusian so sisyphian is the right word i'm sorry about that uh nobody even corrected me unless eva just really she probably shields me

from that good she knows i'm a little baby uh also our patron of the week is devin garcia who has also been a patient for a really long time wow bless you devin sorry uh one other note san antonio we're coming to you soon and you're the only show in january that hasn't sold out so come on sell out please please please we would love to sell it the first month we'd love to sell out the whole show but let's be realistic let's sell out the whole month at least can you guys can you just pretend like it's like that thing that you have with Austin Texas where you compare tacos can you find like whoever your rival is pretend we that they already bought out all of our tickets what I'm saying Austin bought all the tickets and they have a rivalry about tacos so can you pretend can you play that into the buying the tickets

listen yeah please please buy tickets make sense in my head but it would make us it would make us feel very good sold out better sold out whoever has a sold out show has a better tacos let's put that way okay there you go so buy tickets um a couple a lot of shows still have tickets so please buy them and thank you to the people who've already bought tickets we're excited to see you yes thank you for the people who already bought people i burped i tried to cover it up it didn't work also because people won't stop tagging me in this that came out wrong i didn't mean it to sound so aggressive uh but it's it's uh people keep tagging me in the um don't fuck with cats thing oh i'm not watching it she won't never watching it she won't i won't even read about it. I watched it.

If people are trying to, if people are wondering, I watched it. And then I even told Christine, I was like, I didn't know, by the way, it was about Luca Magnata. I just, I saw the trailer when I was like on Netflix and I've started playing and I was like, oh, that looks like pretty, like something I watch. And then I texted Christine. I was like, hey, it's about cats and it's true crime. So if you want to watch it.

And she was like, no, it's about. Do you have any idea what you're saying to me right now it's about Luca Magnata I'm not gonna watch that I'm like do you think even I want anything to do with this nonsense and then I will say it was a it was a good it was a good documentary but like it's definitely something you wouldn't watch and I can't even bear the thought of you killing Skylar like I can't even you certainly would stop me that's let's just say it's about animal cruelty partially and it's about luka magnata and that story was hard enough to tell now that i have a cat i don't even want to parts of it were really disturbing um yeah i can't even but it was it was a really well done documentary like i feel like i learned a whole lot about that whole case yeah i

mean i heard it's very good but there were some people who were writing me saying it's really good but i've been sobbing for hours i'm like like, okay, no, I don't want that. Nope. I'm such a baby. This is not me convincing you. I'm just saying out loud for other people who are wondering. It doesn't show the actual, like, the acts, but it shows, like, the first, like, three seconds of a clip before anything happens. See, like, even thinking about it makes my stomach hurt. Yeah, that's why I never recommended it to you after I knew what it was.

I appreciate that. And sorry, guys. I know that, like, everyone wanted me to watch it i i'll watch pretty much any crime documentary out there and i have but that one i can't do i can't do the animal cruelty stuff or like severe torture stuff i can actually watch it on my way to virginia yeah you were texting me after you left yeah it was a good documentary anyway so that's all i have so uh how you doing you ready to i'm good uh this is one of those things where i hope you have a long drive because my story is long and i'm sorry yay

um let me see the first one actually isn't that bad the second uh the second one is so this this week you guys are kind of off the hook it's shorter than next week but next week's gonna be a little long sorry um so i'm doing a two-parter so don't go on your road trip until next week right i'm doing it i'm doing a two-parter this don't go on your road trip until next week right i'm doing i'm doing a two-parter this time around so this is part one next week okay i get it i was like how do you already know your next week's story you because i i prepared i did two episodes so um this story let me tell you what's going on here because the 1920s uh or 100 years ago everyone's freaking out or at

least they were when new year happened everyone was like we have to dress like we're for the roaring 20s and stuff we probably all forgot but okay well that's what happened uh so since it was like the 20s i was like oh maybe i'll do a story from the 1920s because fun i wanted to keep in theme i was trying to be aesthetically pleasing i love when we do themes that we don't tell each other about so that only one of us does the theme yes it's always really good that way so anyway i was trying to think like what are big things that happened in the paranormal world in the 1920s and so i decided that i'm going the original thought was oh i will talk about spiritualism from the 1920s because that was when like yes the ouija board and seances were like at the peak of their

like oh yeah parlor games and stuff. Oh yeah, the spiritualists were wild, folks. So I started getting into spiritualism in the 1920s. That was a large pill to swallow. I imagine. I imagine. I ended up reading a lot and then I ended up finding out like, it sounds like a fever dream, but I found a story that really just like hits every part of our show. What?

Like it has a, I don't know how I've never heard of this. And I'm sure someone out there is like, how the fuck didn't you know about this? And you might also say that, but I doubt it. I found out that through spiritualism, oh, there were a lot of,

there were a lot of famous people who were also spiritualists at the time. And one of them at one point was Houdini, Harry Houdini. Did you know about this? Yes. About what, do you know about this yes this about what do you know what story i'm gonna tell yes which one the one where he died and then he wanted or he died he wanted them to contact him after his death or whatever the fuck no oh well i will talk about his death but that's not it so apparently houdini at one point who if you don't know was a like the

world's most famous magician yeah he apparently while in the middle of his magic act in the 1920s he actually canceled his tour to start a second job as professionally going undercover and debunking yes fraud mediums and then that's why he was like when i die try and contact me and it didn't fucking work or something his wife tried oh sorry his wife tried to contact him i don't know it doesn't matter but okay you tell him the story i'm sorry i don't mean so anyway i didn't know that there was a magician who literally like hell yeah like went on a spree trying to expose mediums like penn and teller i did not know any of the same thing i guess so here is my attempt and then i'll you'll i'm amped about this okay good because i don't know where i'm starting i also don't really know the story i just like know of the fact i had no fucking clue

i was like how did i not know that like the world's most famous magician also like a huge was in the paranormal world yeah he was like a huge like skeptic in the in the way yeah well you're about to tell me tell me let's just talk about it in 10 different ways roundaboutly without telling the story and then just close your computer and i'll go the end and that's why we drink um okay so i'm just gonna start i'm with like a quick little blurb about spiritualism that way i can say that i still covered it um remember that time i covered it for four seconds well i am gonna i'll say that i'm gonna talk about a quick little blurb about spiritualism in the 1920s but like i will at some point probably also cover spiritualism when it first

really started in like the 1840s. I'm just teasing you. Um, just because that also had its own slew of stories, but we're sticking with the 1920s on principle because it's not 2020. You're starting off strong here. Well, it'll be a steep decline.

Don't worry. So, um, yeah, cause mine's after you. So spiritualism peaked from, like I said, the 1840s to the 1920s um around then there was eight million followers in the u.s and europe mostly were uh middle upper class women or socialists or those that were advocating for social reform or were against organized religion so it was pretty much uh a bunch of progressives

out there that were like we really need to stick together and find our community and it usually ended up being spiritualists right um they believed that uh contact with spirits was possible and that spirits are on a higher plane aka they can answer questions for us from the beyond and of several other things but that's the the leading theme through this sure um there were some really famous people who also got involved and converted to spiritualism, especially like Charles Dickens and Marie Curie. And a fun fact, one of the people who did a lot of writings or contributed a lot of things to spiritualism, his name was Frank Mesmer.

And he was the one that developed hypnotism, which is inducing trances to speak with spirits and that is where we get the phrase mesmerizing yay you're saying a lot of things like your brain is not blown but every bullet i went through i was like what i feel like i've what either watched a documentary or maybe astonishing legends or something because like this is like i i like vaguely know this every single thing i read i was a changed person i was blown away at every turn i was like wow that makes so much sense maybe you know how i go through phases i think one of my phases was this and i think specifically houdini in 1923 but the whole spiritualism like debunking the all the i don't know i hope someone else out there is mind blown because i was freaking

out well but do you remember that story i did um of the family who would say they were spiritualists and then they would fucking murder people yes so there was like all sorts of weird stuff i've like quote unquote studied i've researched like i studied it yeah around because clearly i know it really well but around that topic like i feel like i had murderers from that time and it all boils into well let me know when i blow your mind because i need i need to i need you're gonna blow my mind don't worry i'm sorry i'm sorry i don't let me know what happens i'm not trying to be a hater no no you're not being a hater i just i really thought that i was gonna get you on some of these things but you're already on top of it you're so smart with your big fat brain okay oh shut up earlier today em read me

a list of the most obvious things that you've never thought about and everyone i just started screaming like what like for example eeyore is the sound a donkey makes that's why it's called eeyore i mean so things like that you've already that's what blows my mind not this okay so tell me tell me when i really get you okay so while while spiritualism in the 1920s was still on the up and up there were organizations that were created such as and i think this was actually before the 1920s too too. But at this point, organizations had been created. What's wrong with me? Organizations had been created, such as the Society of...

Is it Psychical Research? Yes. Remember? Because we had this whole... You said cyclical. Yeah. Well, now I'm freaked out that I'm going to say the wrong thing. It's called Psychical.

Psychical Research. And they even had their own committee called Haunted Houses. What? Does that not sound like something I want to do? Now you blew my mind. There was also the London Spiritualist Alliance, and they had a newspaper called The Light, which I would love to subscribe to now. Man.

Because they have articles such as Evenings at Home in Spiritual Seance, Ghosts in Africa, Chronicles of Spirit Photography. And then there was also like a whole bunch, like a whole listener story section where people would submit their personal experiences. It's like like early podcasting it's like we are the light sure yeah we are the light it sounds like a freaking uh don't assume your christian stories oh by the way thank you to everyone who started watching green leaf i'm you're welcome by the way because you're gonna have a blast well you never mentioned oprah was involved if you had told me that i would have jumped on board much she's the executive producer and she acts in it.

She stars in it. Not stars in it. She's in it a lot, though. But it's not fictional. She's an executive producer of a show. Oh, you said she acts in it. But is it like a fictional show or like a... Yeah, it's fictional.

I thought it was a reality show. No, I told you it was fiction. I am so confused. Sorry. I brought this up last time. I thought you meant they were all like reality shows. I'm confused. Never mind.

I literally said it was a fiction. Oh my goodness. So apparently spiritualism was also one of the first forms for mixed public audiences. And in the UK, invitations to tea now often included a seance. What the hell? That sounds so fun. Bring it back. Bring it back. I would. First of all, there's nothing I love more than a good tea time. Also nothing I love more than a good seance. You slam them together. What do you get? You get a recipe or fun. You know what tea time also nothing i love more than a good seance you slam them together what do you get you get a recipe or fun you know what tea time is right that's when you start golf so you don't really love that tea time is also when you get together and drink tea i know but i feel like everyone's my what is with you today oh my gosh because you're like i love a good tea time and i'm like god does he sound like my dad i do love a good tea time we had a tea time when i was home

it was very lovely uh in the 1880s uh the credibility of spiritualists suffered from con artists posing as mediums foreshadowing for the future and during the 1920s uh there was a revival when world war one and the spanish flu pandemic caused a rebirth because there were so many people dying oh weird so after those two things happened so many people especially women were losing their sons and husbands oh geez and they wanted some sort of closure and so uh they started bringing back seances and things like that to try to communicate one last time with their family really interesting okay so two of the popular parlor games of the 1920s were seances and

Ouija boards and uh spiritualism because it was considered a mental gift or an innate gift and not based on gender anyone could communicate with spirits it interested women specifically and that they could do something women could find they couldn't vote but they could talk to ghosts they could literally speak to spirits but also how dare they vote how dare they have a say um so another revival after world war II came for spiritualism, and there was another rise in it. But at that point, instead of it being more paranormal based, it was generally supernatural based. So that was like the UFO phenomenon and things like that. So but we're focusing on after World War I.

Weird. So after the 1920s, spiritualism involved. This is my last little bullet about spiritualism. But after the 1920s it broke off into kind of three different branches of practicing there were independent practitioners there was a the spiritualist church if you wanted a community and there was just the general new age movement which we probably fall into a lot so yeah i'm sure that's like crystals and astrology and just like being in los angeles being in los angeles eating a lot of kale um and so uh

current spiritualism though does not have as much showmanship as it used to because back then it was very let's all have a seance and do table tipping and automatic writing yeah very visual theatrics versus now it's more of a mental state of being or being a sensitive or things like that that being said that's all you need to know for that let's bring back the theatrics though come on i'm walking theatrics so let's that's what i always say here comes my watch me at tea time it's gonna get weird my walking theatrics coming stomping on through so i'm gonna give you a quick little thing on houdini to figure out how he blends into the spiritualism. Great.

So Houdini was born. I don't know how to say his name. I think it's Eric. It's Hungarian. It says Eric. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does. Not the way I want it to sound.

Eric Weiss. And he was born in Appleton wisconsin in 1874 uh apparently he was already like they knew from birth that he was a little trickster and an illusionist oh that's cute as a kid he would pick locks on his crib and he would make his vegetables disappear by hiding them in different magical cups and making them disappear and reappear just wait that's amazing can you imagine being that kid's parents like eat your vegetables and then you think he finally did and then they're like in your plants or like please don't die and then like he's out of his crib like wait what we put a safety lock on that so at one point he so he wanted to be a magician when he grew up and he read a book by jean robert

houdon houdon houdon don't look him you're the one who says you speak french once upon a time and so this uh i think it's houdin this author slash magician magician actually taught him some of his very first tricks and so when he decided he was going to be a magician himself he changed his name to houdini which is houdin with an i at the end i love that yeah does that mean like houdini's uh houdin student or does i think he was just trying to an eye on it i think think he was just trying to do an homage to him. But maybe it means something that I don't know about. So at 19, now officially going by Houdini, he performed at a school and accidentally spilled acid on a girl's dress during an act. Oh, dear.

And so Houdini went home and told his mom what happened. So the mom made the girl a new dress and had Houdini deliver it to her. And then that girl ended up being his wife. I was like, tell me they fell in love. And that's a sweet story. And then quickly after that, he became famous. So poured acid on her and we fell in love. It was all she needed.

That's what Blaze and I did, too. Oh, really sweet. It sounds nicer than how you guys may be met sometimes. Probably. Yeah, I was on a Tinder date and got stood up. Oh, and you just wish acid fell on you it's more romantic i think so after his mother's death uh apparently they were super duper close and that's when he started looking into spiritualists because he wanted to find a way to reach her and at the time he not necessarily was a believer but he was

super open-minded to it and uh he kept meeting spiritualists that were willing to help him but then he could never get in contact with her or they would get in contact with her, quote. But then they were definitely like kind of conning him for his money. And he can probably tell, sniff out right away. Yeah, he's literally a master trickster. Yeah, this whole thing. And so he kept trying to find ways to talk to his mom. And apparently this is really sad.

to talk to his mom and apparently this is really sad he used to go to her graveyard or to her grave site after every time he went to a spiritualist or a medium and he would stand at her grave and be like i haven't found you yet it really fucking sad dude so anyway he eventually got his hopes up so many times that he was like fuck these guys they are not real like there's no way this is real i've gone to enough of them that someone would have been able to help me and eventually he decided that he he even called them uh he called mediums causing quote victimization of the bereaved well actually like that's a really good point i mean i feel like this happens a lot i mean not to say that there aren't real mediums out there but i would say a lot of them a lot of them are phony aren't are just using you for your money and taking advantage of the fact that you're really

sad and you just want to talk to your mom again vulnerable people you know and it's and they also give real mediums a bad name in my opinion yeah exactly so eventually he just got super mad and he now believed that all of their quote gifts were illusions just like the ones that he was tricking people with wow he just thought that he was at least up front with the fact that he was tricking people you gotta give him props though because i feel like a lot of people are like that's all bullshit at least he was like let's find out and like really tried you know so as a quote master illusionist he took it upon himself he was like there is no trick i cannot do or replicate or duplicate i am going to figure out what the hell all these memes are doing and i'm

going to expose them so nobody else gets hurt like I did. What a badass. What a badass. So he eventually became hellbent on preventing other, quote, mediums from giving people false hope and became an active debunker. And in 1923, he took time off from his magic act to travel across the country and give lectures against going to mediums. act to travel across the country and give lectures against going to mediums so if you are a medium out there um i'm sorry this is going to be very uh anti-medium have you ever seen pen and teller yes i didn't know what it was like it's a great show it was a great show but i was i left like they're wrong and the place was like they're right christine i was like no anyway i'm sorry

if i offend any mediums out here it It's not me. It's not you. It's Houdini. So put that on a shirt. It's not me. It's not you. It's Houdini. It always is. In 1924, I'm going.

So here's the problem. There was so much information that I'm going to tell you a part of the story, and then I'm going to come back to it later. Oh, that's fun. So there's this thing, and then i'm gonna come back to it later oh that's fun so there's this thing and then more people get introduced but i want you to know their backstory so we have to kind of time travel to the past again so you know how everything adds up so i'm just going to tell you this about houdini and then we're going to do a little time traveling great um so in 1924 he wrote a book called a

magician among the spirits and this book uh had houdini debunking a bunch of the tricks that mediums often did so that way you could do them yourself like a diy i suppose um and to expose fake psychics this is where the first part of the story comes in because i didn't know if i wanted to give you the full title yet but the first half of the story and the story that we're telling in this episode is about rose mackenberg and rose mackenberg was his assistant oh so this is the story that we're telling in this episode is about Rose Mackenberg and Rose Mackenberg was his assistant. Oh, so this is the story of Houdini's assistant. I don't know anything about this.

Okay. So to expose fake psychics, Houdini hired a small army of undercover agents calling them quote, my own secret service. Oh, come on. So Houdini had his own secret service and these investigators would get into town a few days before Houdini's next act. And he would check out.

They would check out local mediums. They would often go disguised as different types of people in the area and use false names. Often these false names were also had puns to them, such as Francis Rod, where if you spelt it out, it was F Rod. She would sign herself in. So she would sign into the medium appointment as fraud. This is the I was going to say this. Someone should make a movie. I'm sure there is a movie.

OK, I'm so glad you said this because one, there isn't a movie. But two, hang on, hang on. I had the most ingenious idea where if anyone knows Lin-Manuel Miranda, I need him to hear this exact sentence. My brother, my brother, me knows him. so can we somehow somehow bring them in the loop podcast connect please so the way that hamilton happened is he became obsessed with the story of hamilton and wrote a broadway about this how is there not a houdini exposing mediums in the paranormal broadway like how is there not a hamilton version of houdini called houdini called

houdini or what's the thing he called you call it hellbent houdini hellbent or apparently one of the nicknames that his undercover agents went by was spook spies and i don't know when manuel miranda where are you the children's version this sounds like an award-winning show what about f fraud i don't even want the rights you can take all the money lynn i just no no i want the okay lynn we'll split it but if there's a if there is a broadway musical one day about houdini exposing mediums in the 1920s i just want it to be out there like tmtm i at least have the idea yeah lynn uh honest to god i think it'd be genius be perfect for this think of the special effects on stage get out of also just side note i just watched the fiddler on the roof documentary on the plane because this is

what i do great instead of don't fuck with cats uh about murders i watch uh fiddler on the roof but lynn was in it and uh it was really a beautiful story and i loved it so um this is delightful man i just think he's a delightful man someone get this get this sent over that way please it would be bananas think of the magic trick it would you be going to a magic show and a paranormal show and a broadway show all in one like for skeptics too i can't i can't breathe this is such a good idea okay don't eva cut all this house to no one feels it okay so uh so they would go disguises different types of people and use false names such as f.Rod. I love when they would sign in.

And many of these mediums claims to. So, for example, many of the memes that they went to would be speaking to these undercover spies, thinking that they're like bereaved mothers or someone who just lost their husband. I see. And the mediums would give them all of these. They'd be like, oh, I'm making contact with your husband. And but like that person in real life like never once right was married as single so like they had this whole list of things that mediums were saying to them that was just not accurate right and houdini's

investigators would write detailed notes to debrief him when he got into town for his next show this is so cool so that way when he got into the into town for that show, he would then go on stage and debunk the local mediums in front of everyone. So he would literally to be fair. They I'm sorry. I know. I know. I know. They literally took so much money from all these people who are like, I miss my son, my dead son.

I mean, come on. So he would always say so he would literally go on stage and in the middle of his magic act, he would have a specific portion of his act where all he did was the same tricks that mediums did and he would say oh if you like these tricks you can go to this person down the street and that person down the street they all do it because they're fake that's a little cringeworthy i hope he locked his doors at night they were probably out to get him so apparently he always carried a gun on him because so many spiritualists who were on obviously on the side of mediums and didn't believe that any of them were frauds they all actively threatened him regularly and he almost actually he didn't ever buy any of his investigators guns but he suggested

all of his undercover jesus secret service carry a gun on them um also guys this has just become also a crime drama so can we just right talk about how this is covering your, as far as I know, he never used the gun, but he was always nervous because so many people were threatening to kill him because he was, this is a wild ride. It's a roller coaster. You were not kidding. This touches on every part of our show. That's why like this is a two parter.

Okay. So, uh, he always announced also like he knew that he was pissing people off, obviously, because whether or not there were mediums in the audience or believers in the audience he would always at the end of that act or at the end of that bit in his act he would always announce that if the mediums wanted him to stop then he would pay them ten thousand dollars to do anything that he could not duplicate like prove me wrong and i'll stop oh my god wow some sources said five thousand dollars some said ten but i think ten is a little more dramatic so i like it so lynn write down ten i think that's a good one lynn ten rhymes with more things i think so if you were thinking about like rapping a song

about who you know and you were right i know you were i could feel it i can feel it wherever you are in the world right now your ears are tingling okay so sometimes houdini actually came to the sansa's himself also in disguise and then halfway through he would reveal himself and expose the medium to her face now that is a scene i want to watch you know what would have been fun though is if he decided he was also going to do some spooky illusions to her like to like the medium and trick them into thinking that there's or make them think that there's really a ghost because that's something they're not doing and she's like wait a second yeah oh my god like that's actually not supposed to happen like oh shit yeah i totally uh oh that's fine so sometimes uh oh yeah houdini would go to the seances so the

leader of his team because he had this whole little secret service team by the way most of them were women and he i mean to be fair i think that it was easier for women to probably fake uh to like they probably were the most clientele yeah exactly they're probably like the right demographic anyway but in the 1920s he happily hired women to give them a job because it was so hard for women to find jobs i think uncarried gun now that's fun i want to be in this play i just decided in this musical lynn are you listening i can't say i want to be houdini can i no that's lynn's job oh however i can't sing but i don't think that's a problem i'll be one of the ghosts i'll be like the fake ghosts you like have on pulleys yeah yeah yeah

you pull amicross sage i'll rap lynn suddenly out okay he was never in let me open the box of possibility and then slammed it shut and padlocked it threw it into the trash can so uh the leader of his team was rose macken, who, by the way, in the beginning also believed in psychics and fortune tellers and mediums. So in the 1920s, she was working on an investment case. She did like a like financial fraud. That's what she worked in. And she was working on an investment case where a psychic had given bad advice to someone on their money matters. OK.

And so she knew that a psychic was involved had given false information and then caused this whole financial problem so she reached out to houdini i don't know how easy it was to just like fucking tweet at someone in the 1920s but she got a hold of houdini and uh and was like i need help i don't know anything about mediums can you help expose like what tricks she used so i know how to help this case. So after getting to know each other, Houdini liked her so much that he hired her for his undercover team because he taught her all the little tricks of the trade. What a badass. So she claims to have over in the course of her time with Houdini, she claims to have investigated over a thousand mediums.

Wow. um she claims to have investigated over a thousand mediums wow i think in the first two years she investigated like 300 and then at least by now uh she's investigated over a thousand and every one of them she says was a fraud wow um she has been known to say quote i can smell a rat before i can smell the incense that is a hamilton listen this hamilton that's t-shirt that's like the i'm not throwing away my shot line right there that's like intermission that's like the cd that on the track on the cd that in the car i just like keep like they're like it's like the skylar sisters but they're like a band of like medium exposers okay like my skylar or like no not your skylar the spider no no i was a different skylar i thought maybe

now you're finally coming around there's a lot of weird full circles happening here so uh yes well yeah so uh rose mackenberg she had investigated uh so many cases for houdini and she had gone to so many spiritualist retreats and churches getting information that she actually got the nickname through this little group as the rev because she had been known to have been like been awarded so many spiritualist titles and degrees with all of the people that she had met that they were like oh you must be the rev so in 1925 one of the cases she actually covered was she was investigating a medium named charles gonzalez and he claimed to be like one of the greatest spiritualists on earth um and she disguised herself as a mom who lost her baby and wanted to make contact with the baby so charles said that he

was like oh i'll help and so he said okay i'm channeling an 800 year old hindu guide and for 25 if you would like to also be able to channel the 800 year old hindu guide what i can teach you how to look into water and see the dead for 25 that sounds like a good deal to me well in 1920s i don't know about that also i don't really want to see the dead so never mind charles also said that the experience would work better for her if she took her clothes off uh what so that's what she said and then she walked away told houdini what happened and since he was coming to town in a couple days for his show he took his clothes off was like i'm ready he got naked and that was the magic we all wanted uh yeah um so he knew like well okay well i'm gonna be in town anyway like i'll figure out

what like where this guy's going apparently charles gonzalez was actually going to houdini's show and houdini found out about that so when he got on stage to debunk all the mediums in the area he singled out Charles Gonzalez and told everyone what he had said to her behind closed doors cringe cringe cringe but also like of all people to fucking call out in public the guy who told a woman to take off her clothes so that she could see her dead son yeah fuck off

exactly so Houdini handled it and apparently he got he was in the audience and he ran out because he was getting booed so heavily by everyone so thank you houdini for being an ally to women seriously um another case that rose was on top of was in 1926 when apparently houdini had actually urged congress to pass a bill to make fortune telling illegal in dc doesn't this sound like a fever dream yes this is i'm like i'm sorry no houdini is at congress and he's trying to like stop the paranormal spirits like were you the one who taught me about abraham

lincoln's wife and how she had yes in the 1920s or i don't know if that wasn't that wasn't in the 1920s at all no but one of the early i think of the first way of spiritualism was yeah was it mary todd lincoln is that her name yes she was huge on that because their son had died and so when lincoln was in office there was a lot of seances. She kind of fell into and hired someone to live there and stuff, right? Like an in-house seance orchestrator. And it was really sad. And during this Congress, by the way, it was House Resolution, I think, 89-89, if you're looking at the bill.

69-69? 89-89. But close. Houdini was the star witness, and he obviously supported the bill because they were trying to make fortune telling illegal. And Rose also testified and told how she before they ever went to this committee meeting or this hearing, she came in a few days early like she normally does. And she went undercover and talked to local D.C. mediums. And one of the more famous D.C. mediums at the time, her name was Jane Coates. more famous DC mediums at the time. Her name was Jane Coates. And Jane had Rose as a client and didn't know that it was Rose thought it was someone else and told her that the bill would never pass. And she wasn't worried about the hearing coming up in a few days, because at least four of the senators there were her clients. And so she was outing the fact that people were trying to pass a bill, but behind closed closed doors they were supporting mediums because they were going to them jane also said it wouldn't pass because

quote seances are held at the white house with president coolidge so the white house has always just fucking had seances i guess so lincoln was big on that and i guess the tradition carried out but at the time at this time coolidge was in the office was in office in the office just hanging out and uh but apparently like that was very hush hush like nobody knew about that so she ended up this time Coolidge was in the office, just hanging out. But apparently, like, that was very hush-hush. Like, nobody knew about that. So she ended up, like, outing President Coolidge as using seances and, like, talking to mediums for, like, political decisions.

Game, quote-unquote? So that ended up helping Houdini for a second because the whole argument was like well people can't just think this isn't a big deal and people are just using mediums for fun but like clearly politicians are making like our national decisions of our nation right like this these are our government is handling really serious matters with seances to be fair that does explain a lot just saying but so it ended up like damning the government and president coolidge got kind of dragged through the mud and so houdini ended up

having to make like a public apology to president coolidge whoa whoa when i was that sound like a fever i was trying to explain it i had i was hanging out with a friend last night and i tried explaining it to her and i was like so houdini publicly apologizes to president coolidge for using a medium i was like i don't know how to explain this to you yeah let's yeah so sorry let's stop shop talk and like there was like heavy press on this like the new york times was covering this like crazy they there was a quote that today's session was unusually disorderly and came near winding up for a free-for-all fist fight because all these politicians were like now having to defend themselves and they felt back into a corner that they got called out for using mediums.

Holy shit. Everyone was in denial that they believed in this stuff and they were for the bill. But then they were also like there was proof that they anyway, it got very messy. So eventually Congress declined to outlaw fortune telling because it was part of a religious practice. So they were able to kind of scathe that seems to be about right um prior to his death which i will get to i'm not just scanning over that prior to his death houdini had actually said like you know what i am still open-minded to the thought that there could be a spiritualist out there or like a real medium out there i just

haven't met them okay well that's an interesting uh twist yeah and he had actually set up 20 different codes with 20 different friends so if he came back from the dead that's what it was right sorry there would be at least multiple different ways that they could prove this i think well it's gonna be quiet i'm not trying to guess what happens in your story so i'm gonna be quiet i'm sorry uh so he ended up giving out multiple codes different people and so someone would be able to make contact with him if he died uh just so we know in 1945 rose had actually come up come forward with an update saying that the message had not gone through yet because she was one of the people who got a code from him and she had not been able to

make contact that's amazing i mean that's really incredible though we should come up with some codes i guess we have enough just like hello fresh that's it yeah for sure um after his death rose continued investigating mediums for another 20 years and gave lectures on psychic fraud around the country and she actually helped the chicago tribune and exposes on spiritualism called spook spies and those articles were featured in magazines such as look popular science saturday evening post all that good stuff delight she was also in national magazines on tv and she testified in more court cases in the future and she warns that uh for the future public she warns that anytime a country is at war the belief in spiritualism will rise because more frauds

will come out to trick us or since spiritualism will be on the rise because people will want to make contact with people who passed on more frauds are going to come out of the woodwork so always be careful man that's oh it's alarming fun fact she lived at 310 west 24th street in manhattan until she died i think she died in 1968 and uh for her whole time after she retired she always slept with the lights on because after years of seances, quote, I got tired of dark rooms. Oh, my God. Whoa. What a weird.

What a weird way to end that. Fun fact. So I also do want to mention Houdini's death a little bit. I'm not going to talk specifically about how he died yet because I'll bring that up next week. about how he died yet because i'll bring that up next week but after his death because he'd given so many people specific codes for when he died you know what might happen or who they should expect a certain thing for him to say during a seance and after his death his wife bess offered ten thousand dollars to anyone who could help her contact her husband that's the one i sorry so in 1928 arthur ford announced that he had received a message from Houdini or his mom, depending on the source that I was reading.

It was like Houdini or Houdini's mom finally came. Oh, got it. And Bess asked for a seance, was like, OK, well, if you say that you found them, like, let's check this out and I'll pay you 10 grand. The wife, right? The wife. So Bess would know if there was a real if it was a real seance or not, because Houdini had already told her the phrase before he died. So Bess met with Arthur and a group of spiritualists and during the seance houdini allegedly came forward and houdini said to best quote rosabelle answer tell pray answer look tell answer answer tell

and everyone was like what the fuck is going on i have goose cam and i don't even know what that means so bess took off her wedding ring and showed the engraved lyrics stop it in the ring that said rosabelle sweet rosabelle i love you more than i can tell over me you cast a spell i love you my sweet rosabelle and best even so that apparently that was a song that they used to sing together on stage i am fucking shook dude and that was their code apparently she agreed she's like that was the code those words specifically were the code like mega goose cam right now in the right order and everything that was this actual code that was the code holy shit and apparently she had been told by houdini if that ever comes through in a seance it means believe i am losing my mind okay so best even signed us like a sworn statement

affirming that the seance was successful and legitimate and this gave spiritualist reason to freak the fuck out they were like the one man who was always a non-believer has confirmed an afterlife for us and unfortunately years later best had to retract the statement because she found out that their code phrase had actually been leaked in a 1927 biography somebody must have found it i knew it was too good to be true damn it so after that she officially was like fuck that she told all of her friends that makes it so much worse yeah what a slimy bastard she told all of her friends when i it so much worse yeah what a slimy bastard she told all of her friends when i died don't even come looking for me if someone tells you they made contact with me in the afterlife they're lying to you i will not return so she was like

fuck that i'm gonna go be with houdini like we're not coming back here ever again so uh for the next few years after that though she would still regularly hold a hallow Halloween seance just to see if they could bring him back. Just I mean, I don't think she ever expected anything, but it was Halloween and Halloween was the day he died. And so they were like, let's just see if anything comes out. If not, then we'll have fun. It's probably also a nice homage to all his times. Like, right. Yeah.

Yeah. So her last seance, though, where she tried to make contact with him was in 1936. Apparently it was covered with press it was broadcast everywhere because she really this time was like i'm gonna find houdini this is my one last shot if i don't find him then then that's it i'm not gonna try again yeah and houdini never showed and so when she came up apparently a huge storm broke out that night only over the house whoa like only in that area of town and nowhere else. But it was like super rain, super lightning, super thunder. Apparently just over them was a massive rain cloud.

And that was the night that she gave up and never tried to make contact with him again. And when they've asked her why she has not tried to reach out since she said quote because 10 years is long enough to wait for any man and that's the story of i don't know houdini kind of i am like i want to cry but i don't know why and i have goose cam but like also also what a strong like badass woman of like i've waited a goddamn decade for him and i want to rap about it too i'd listen strangest feeling i've ever felt so that's supposed to be about rose mackberg, but I now realize that I only talked about her for a chunk of that. Think about it.

Rose. Mack. That's me. Let's just call it Houdini Part One. Wow. Let's just, for Eva to title this, Houdini Part One. The end. Eva does not title it with things that make sense.

Remember that, right? Okay. Okay. Title this like Lin- Lin- Lin-Manuel Miranda's- Lin, are you listening next big break we have the secret to your next big six because you need it from a podcast i'm sure

i'm sure you can't come up with one on your own oh my god all right anyway the end and i am like you'll get more of that next week and before you told me is that what you knew is that the stuff you knew yeah well no i mean i knew that she had tried to contact him over and over and it never worked um but that's all i knew like i knew that he had told her i didn't know about all the secret people but i knew that he had told her code and that he said if you ever hear this code it's me and then i i think i knew she didn't hadn't heard it so when you said it was like, I want to believe it so bad. I mean, like Houdini had an undercover army of people exposing mediums. He ended up going to Congress and publicly apologizing to President Coolidge because it got too out of hand.

Hey, Lynn, there's presidents. Does that make you feel a little more comfortable? You could talk about, you could talk about Coolidge. You didn't get to mention him last time. Does Hamilton, did Hamilton ever have a seance? I don't know. Maybe. maybe I not that I know I have I've watched the play and that's about as much as I know like soft pitch a uh we could imagine Coolidge wait a minute wait a minute Lynn are you listening there we'll do us like it this is just inspired you're you're it's just gonna be an inspiration it's not based on the story just inspo what if

coolidge has houdini do a seance with him and they bring back hamilton hey okay wow wait a minute okay and then m gets pulled across the stage with a big fat cane i just get dragged away like vaudeville yep vaudeville indeed anyway okay yeah and then i'm just there because i said forced my way in okay all right um and then also skylar makes an appearance apparently skylar's obviously there too okay um that's our spider it won't be the skylar sisters but we'll find two female spiders with skylar and it'll be skylar's sisters yeah it'll be a. Look, everything's gonna be a knockoff. It's just like the 99 cent store version of Hamilton.

Moving on. That's so much better. No. 99 cents but worth a million dollars. We have a whole million. Lynn, I bet you've never seen that money in your life. Million dollars. I bet we've piqued your interest now.

I don't know why, but I can already tell this is one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. This is such trash. Before we recorded this episode, we literally spoke to a spider. Non-ironically, not with any sort of humor. Just talk to the spider. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm in a good mood. I'm pretty sure I have a carbon monoxide leak.

And if that is the case, it seems to be doing okay for us. Look, I'm going to ride this wave. Whatever's going on, let it continue. Holy smokes. uh and if that is the case i'm pretty sure it seems to be doing okay for us like i'm gonna ride this wave whatever's going on let it let it continue holy smokes and to think that i thought not drinking was fun what is your story okay good luck by the way thanks i don't even remember what my fucking story is anymore i think i don't even need to tell it i just want to kind of rehash what we just went over um okay so now this is kind of a weird thing that happened uh so last week remember i did uh the story of god sorry i'm using uh the zach bagans manual as a um a coaster sounds right and a talisman and a bunch of other things but primarily a coaster and a mouse pad um

so remember how i covered that story that i had found in the in the um list first article about strange coincidences and it was the two mary morrises who were murdered yes i do know this one they think it was a hitman it doesn't happen often but i do know what you're talking about it's amazing we found one and also we haven't recorded in that that we recorded that like a month ago so it's i'm very proud of you my memory doesn't usually go back that far uh but don't worry we're really good at memorizing lines so yes if you need us for that we're very good at rapping about president coolidge kind of rapping you wouldn't believe it but it's true uh okay so anyway i when i was writing those notes i looked in our inbox like in our main inbox i typed in mary morris because i was thinking a lot of times

if i cover a story i check our inbox to see like some people will write in like that's my uncle or you know this murderer and so it's like yay i know or like you know i have a connection to the case and so sometimes i want to see if anyone has written in or suggested or whatever so i typed in mary morris and actually part of it was that i thought i'd covered it before which i remember last week i was or last time i was freaking out like have i done this maybe it might be the finally the time yes i had but i was searching our inbox and i came across this email from uh page and first of all just most importantly page sent a picture of these magnets that she had made on shutterfly okay i've been looking at those on your computer this whole time and i did not know what

i was looking at it looks like it looks like it's part of a marvel thing it will one says andrew andrew jesus what's wrong is it andrew basiago for president oh once with yeah and one says uh love your hair hate your guts wow i'm a button right next is that a button it's a magnet magnet i'm a magnet right next to andrew basiago that's super dope for president for prez uh and then this one says resident fuck boy of the virgo super cluster is that a thing i don't know that sounds like it sounds that's what they call me sounds pretty cool um i think that's what they call me i'm pretty sure also but no uh so from zoomed out it looks like a magical superhero belt so that's what i've been thinking was gonna happen this whole time well maybe we can go with that instead

i'm just a fuck an astrological fuck boy apparently you can make those on shutterfly superhero belt you meant an astrological fuck boy you can make those on shutterfly yeah it's easy just like quick formula just you just go on tinder you find uh thousands of them swipe right uh so anyway so i was like obviously immediately intrigued by these and then i thought maybe she knows mary morris nope she was talking about a different more uh different morris she was taught she so she says oh these are my magnets also hey you should look into this unsolved triple homicide in my hometown and i was like you have piqued my interest and this is the story of the tweed morris triple murder so okay that's how we

came from morris to morris i see what's happening now and because uh a lot of people are like why don't you ever respond to my email it's because we have like tens of thousands so i promise truly tens of thousands i just wanted to explain how i stumbled upon this randomly because she typed in a very lucky combination of letters specific storyific story. And so here's the thing. Paige literally researched the story and sent me a bunch of information on it. So, of course, I was like, well, that's very thoughtful. And, like, thank you for your hard work. And so this is what she wrote.

I have a newfound respect for Christine because that shit took me literally all day. Yeah. Granted. Yes, it does. Granted, I had a two-year-old interrupting me the whole time but christine has g o and m so that's pretty much the same thing can relate and then said i hope this case is interesting can confirm for you xoxo page so i was like okay and i do like also want to say i uh i don't like if i think this happened like one time before with the rabbit hole podcast sent me some information i don't just like print out the notes and then like read them to you because no she like redoes them really feel like that is cheating um but i do kind of use it as like its own article almost and then like find a bunch of my own shit and youtube and stuff and

then kind of like make like mega notes you know i hear you but as i was right i was like voiced to texting this because you taught me about that now we're both grandpas and i typed in mega notes and it changed it to mega notes so i don't know how to feel about that i know how i feel about it not great uh anyway so that page that speaks ad page uh was extremely thorough to the point that she used 10 sources. And then I looked up all the sources. Those were like the 10 sources on this story. Oh, wow.

Look at you. This is like not a well-covered story at all. Wow. Thank you, Paige. I know. And so it's kind of cool because I love like the smaller cases that nobody has ever heard of. So there were no podcasts on this. There was no YouTube on this.

Like there was nothing. So Paige had already used a lot of the information online. So anyway, I found a few things to add but here's the thing you're a treasure page thank you for your help for bringing the story to light it is fascinating and i'm going to tell it to you now so this story takes place in east liverpool ohio in the 1970s is that near you is that near cincinnati no i don't believe so well i don't think so i've never heard of it okay it said it was in a county i've also never heard of so i imagine it's probably at least several hours away but then again i don't know too much about geography in general as you as this really shocking for you to learn i'm sure oh gosh maybe

oh gosh oh god oh darn oh my goodness oh my gosh so east liverpool ohio not really sure where that is but apparently it was a quiet oh you know what i did look this up i remember now it was near pittsburgh so it was like on the eastern side of ohio and i'm on the western side of ohio uh in the 1970s it was a quiet riverside town and the former pottery capital of the world i'm sure you know that wow if i didn't before you won't shame on me shame on me at the time which was so this took place 1973, the population of the town was about 20,000. And amazingly, their Wikipedia page says nothing about this murder, which I thought was pretty

strange. Well, it's still a small enough town that they knew how to cover it up, apparently. I was like amazed because there's information about all their pottery, but not about their murders. Their pottery must be pretty freaking good then. Maybe it really is just so good it glazes over the murders uh lynn i'm sorry stop listening here i hope you stopped listening a long time ago uh however it was the final resting place of famous bank robber pretty boy floyd who was taken there to be embalmed so

that's my fun fact about the town interesting and pages from there so yay okay page so here's the murder okay july 30th 1973 uh a nurse from chicago named francis dugan decides to enter the local furniture store in east liverpool to do some shopping the store was owned by a man named earl a tweed he was a 75 year old local of east liverpool who owned the furniture store. It was called National Furniture Store. And he had owned and operated it himself since 1912. And his name is Mr. Tweed, which is just like the most 75-year-old man name I've ever heard.

He also owned eight or nine low-rent apartments in town. He was a member of his choir and his men's Sunday school class. He earned honors in Eagle's Lodge. He belonged to Masonic Orders and the Moose the moose lodge oh fellow moose yep uh anyway he was known as like the town's like kind elderly gentleman which is wild because that's how i want to that's how i want to be seen before i go like i know i mean we all know how i feel about nature cozy but i really do hope to retire in like a wonderful little mountain cabin space where like everyone in my community knows me as like the kind old man i will say don't commit too soon

to being this character maybe like divert now i want to be a version of what i already know and nothing else fate okay let's just put it that way i want to just be known as wonderful and like an actual pillar of the community and that's it yikes careful with those words not a killer of the community pillar of the community uh so earl a tweet is this like kindly old man he owns a furniture store anyway uh and he he was he owned some apartments in town and as page put in her notes he was always willing to help struggling families like with their furniture their groceries he even let his tenants skip rent if they needed time to catch up like he was what a kind man just a really kindly gentleman so anyway this nurse from chicago francis enters the store to do some shopping and is immediately met with a horrible bloody sight oh no she sees the body of

a young woman and a child laying on the floor of the furniture store only 30 feet from the entrance oh my god so obviously she sees this she runs out of the furniture store only 30 feet from the entrance oh my god so obviously she sees this she runs out of the store she shouts to someone across the street call the police something terrible has happened police come quickly and francis waited at the store to give her statement and for whatever goddamn reason her husband daniel had stayed in the car the whole time because his leg hurt okay well right sounds like something i would do it's at a leg problem but page said he's just an asshole uh but so like this woman literally just said i found this child murdered and he's like i'm just gonna wait in the car honey he was like i want nothing to do with that i know i want nothing

to do with it he's like ah can we just go back to chicago you took me to this weird town in ohio i didn't ask for this um so when police entered the store they see the bodies of linda morris age 22 and her daughter angela lynn morris only age four they had been beaten to death and were bloodied linda was declared dead at the scene but angela was still alive and was transported to east liverpool city hospital where she died from her injuries only 10 hours later but that wasn't all they found so about they kept wandering farther in the store apparently the store was like packed with furniture and antiques it was like um you know like a local yeah antique store like so they had to kind of go back through all the furniture about four feet from the basement stairway in

the back of the store police found the body of mr tweed lying in a dim hall near the bathroom he had been beaten and stabbed 27 times in the chest oh my god and then nearby on his chair were some pieces of meat and bread where he was preparing his sandwich for lunch it's just like the most fucking tragic scene to stumble upon uh turns out linda was also pregnant oh no so that makes four people involved in this mass murder i mean i guess it's considered a triple homicide but she was pregnant which just makes this sadder right that way right um so the store was a freaking mess uh police found a serrated steak knife that had been used to stab Tweed. Oh, shit.

Yikes. Sorry. I have nothing else to say except, oh, shit. Yeah. I'm sorry. Usually that's pretty accurate response for pretty appropriate response. Although another source apparently says he was beaten with a hammer and then stabbed with some carpet shears that were later found in a garbage can near the store.

So. Wow. That sounds like five different horrible ways to die all at once. It's like clue. Oh, my God. some carpet shears that were later found in a garbage can near the store so wow that sounds like five different horrible ways to die all at once it's like oh my god it's like clue but just like it's like clue but no locations just weapons just nobody wins uh we all lose wow yeah uh yeah especially him especially right especially these people who actually died wow uh so they also found a wrench and a claw a literal wrench like this fucking clue game okay it is clue then they also found a wrench and a claw hammer which they believe were the weapons used to beat linda and angela to death

and they weren't like associated with him at all they just happen to be in the same store they just happen to be like collateral damage yep yep exactly they were just shopping there so of course it's a tiny town news travels fast linda's mother in law letty morris was shopping nearby when she heard of the murders and she actually this is heartbreaking she knew that linda and her granddaughter angela were going to the furniture store that day so she hears a woman and her child have been murdered and she's like oh my fucking god they were going to the store and she's like desperately hoping obviously it's not them so she hears a woman and her child have been murdered and she's like oh my fucking god they were going to the store and she's like desperately hoping obviously it's not them so she races to the scene is like please tell me that's not my daughter and granddaughter and the officer is like well they were wearing these clothes and she just like broke down and was like that's

linda and angela oh my gosh and linda was only. Keep in mind, they were very young. Linda's husband, Lou, was at work nearby starting a new job. And he was also told about the deaths pretty quickly and was taken to the hospital. As far as the investigation, the Columbiana County is where it is. I may be near Columbia. I don't know. Interesting. The Columbia County, Columbiana County Sheriff and local detectives

took on the case along with four men from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation, a.k.a. the BCI. They conducted a thorough search of the store and Dresden Avenue,

which is the street it was on. They collected more than two dozen items which were checked for fingerprints, blood analysis, hair evidence, and other clues.

The murder literally happened in the middle of the day in a busy area but nobody saw anything like there were no witnesses who could be like oh i saw a man go that way or interesting and there's no security cameras or anything i mean it's 1970 oh right right right no i keep thinking it's like recent no okay got it. I don't think so. Unless this was like the most high tech. Unless it was like a spy station. Right. Got it. Police determined that the last person who saw Mr. Tweed alive was a man named Charles Inman,

who did part time work for him and visited him that morning, leaving around 1130. But he didn't seem to fit the bill. There was one young boy who was walking in the area and said a man had run from the store bumped into him grabbed him demanded to know where he lived and when the boy didn't answer the man ordered to tell him where he lived or i'll kill you uh i don't know why this would help a murderer i i really don't i can't think of a reason like did i miss it i don't know maybe tell me where you live or i'll kill you to a small child i don't know maybe like to hide out there i don't know it doesn't make sense but that's i don't know i don't know so the kid apparently managed to twist loose and run away which was

like what a little badass i would have been like i would have just i would have literally turned into a puddle i would have been like i'm already dead i'm clearly already dead i would have been like i don't know where i live i'm not alive but i'm not i'm pre-dead i'm pre-dead aren't we all uh-huh i'm just just yeah anyway uh so the kid just apparently ripped loose from the guy and ran and he described him as a red-haired man that's about it they kind of created like a composite sketch and circulated it throughout the region uh members of the detective department flew to an ohio city to uh to a different ohio city to quiz a suspect who was kind of charged in a similar case and who fit this like red hair description but nothing came of it

it wasn't the right guy police also talked to a man who lived in a house owned by tweed uh that was located behind the store and this man said he had heard nothing uh so it was during lunch hour obviously like well not obviously but like during midday and he said he had heard nothing uh he saw no one leave through the basement door which apparently hadn't been opened for a long time there was a high window like in the store that that was open but like a skylar space or skylar oh skylar i hope you never have to bear witness to anything that tragic he's like i listen to your podcast live every week i listen to your podcast and all the shit that happens outside of you you have no right asking

me to not experience anything tragic okay you're so right then i take it all back skylar must be like a chain smoker at this point just skylar must be in therapy oh god i probably owe you some therapy i'm sorry skylar uh so this window was open but apparently it was open during the summer because it was hot so it would that like didn't mean anything yeah well it doesn't yeah it doesn't give you any information no so later in the afternoon a telephone call to police reported that there were papers strewn about on outdoor steps and along the freeway fence a block from the furniture store and uh patrolman jim buckley went to find the papers and they were they belonged to mr tweed and his wallet was there too

so it's implied at this point that this guy was camping out at tweed's house right uh that's what it sounds like it sounds to me like all this stuff is there so well uh along the freeway i mean i would i without knowing anything i would think that this guy was staying at tweed's house and like just like taking his stuff and now i don't know what throwing it around i don't know wait i'm confused i'm sorry i don't know keep going i think i'm i think i well they found his paperwork in his wallet on the side of the freeway yeah i feel like someone was like like threw it out of his car or something or right i don't know where does his house come in from this i imagine they found the stuff at his house and he was they were staying at his house and they robbed him of it at the store like oh okay they took his wallet oh right because he was dead

at the store yes okay that makes more sense okay i get okay i think that was the disconnect here yes yeah yeah yeah he was murdered in the store yeah that i knew i had decided without i decided in the middle that you were wrong and he just died in his house sure okay i mean listen i could be who knows uh but also that would mean page is wrong and i don't want to accuse her of that so uh so right they found a block from the furniture store they found his wallet okay okay uh put so they went picked it up the money was gone so it was believed that obviously this was a robbery uh it was believed the man then ran through a vacant lot that was kind of attached to the store toward the freeway and that's where he like tossed the shit he didn't

want like the empty wallet the papers he didn't want whatever got it uh so police surmised that uh mrs morris and her little girl were killed because they just happened like you said collateral damage which is so fucking tragic um happened on the robbery and like maybe could identify who it was and so he killed them he just like didn't want any witnesses exactly and they were pretty much helpless so mr tweed himself he was apparently described as like a pretty tough guy he had been through the depression and had obviously run his business through the depression which i'm sure was like the hardest thing on earth right like quite a task um but again he was 75 so he probably could not have fought off like a strong attacker right and then of course there's um oh so linda's wife

of linda's wife jesus christ uh linda's husband lou described linda why am i so confused with their name sorry there's linda angela as the daughter and lou is the husband so lou described linda as a friendly and old-fashioned country girl who stood five feet tall and weighed 110 pounds at the most so she's super tiny she's not defending herself and was 22 probably trying to protect her four-year-old was also pregnant i mean they were just in a terrible most vulnerable triple you can think of exactly so apparently the fraternal order of police of east liverpool and wellsville jointly offered a 500 reward at the time but it has never been collected it's been 46 years and the case remains unsolved uh the case was obviously uh one could say botched i don't want to say botched but like

in today's standards it was botched as in people could walk into the crime scene you know right right right like contaminated in some way exactly and like things that matter today didn't exist dna was not a thing that they were probably security cameras security cameras how did they get how did any crime ever get solved without today's technology honest to god i think about that a lot because i'm like anything get done how could you prove that someone and you think about the witch hunts and stuff and it's like they literally just made shit up they're literally like well i don't like her oh right none of us do yeah it's like i would have been killed instantly oh yeah the second i was born they would have been like throw it in the river throw it in god

damn it oh this one's a bad one yeah we can smell it oh what was it i can smell a rat before i smell the incense yeah that's one of my favorite new quotes by the way um yeah so uh i don't know either because nowadays like you have to be so there has to be like i mean not necessarily that's like it's like the john mulaney bit when he's like in in the old days like two cops would show up and be like ew there's a pile of blood mop it up like yeah it's like now back to my hunch like or they'd be like here we're charging five dollars to come see this fucking crime right right like steal the raisins off this pie i mean oh yeah that was a fucked up story right like i just think about

that eating the cake that they had baked before they got murdered shocker that one's unsolved too which i'm actually kind of amazed i'm like at least they didn't charge someone not knowing who it was right right right i don't know which is worse i mean i guess putting an innocent person in jail is worse obviously yeah but so okay uh compromising evidence uh in 2010 a local photographer released a documentary called 759 dresden which is the address of the furniture store now i swear to god i cannot find this goddamn documentary and uh it was shown locally and aired on a local tv station but it was never released on dvd never released online oh it is nowhere unless somebody put it on a vhs yes on had public access in east liverpool interesting so i like could not find

any of it there were like a couple bits of footage i found on youtube but like not the whole movie so that's kind of a bummer um but they did have uh interviews with people who are close to the events they even had like archival footage in this documentary uh they interviewed mr tweed's daughter which is really sad and then lou who was uh linda's husband and uh angela's father and it also talks about some other apparently 20 unsolved murders in this same county so yikes um uh anyway lou the husband says in the film that the east liverpool east liverpool police had been overwhelmed by the case because they weren't accustomed to such mayhem which oh well i feel like makes sense in a small town you suddenly have this like violent yeah i can't imagine us like a like a tiny town just all of a sudden having this

right massive like coverage and then being like wow i don't know what to do i feel like that probably still happens today when like in a small town something crazy happens like i don't know i don't know what the hell am i supposed to do like typically i'm following drunk teens around right right home i don't know apparently another triple homicide happened six years later in the same fucking town so i don't know what's going on there but page be careful good uh so mr morris lou uh went on to marry again after his wife's death. He had five children. Wow. But it's just so tragic that the first...

Yeah, his first daughter died. Yeah, and the baby. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He spent 27 years actually as a police officer in Michigan. And in hindsight, this is interesting, he was puzzled as to why authorities never questioned him or any other relatives about his wife's murder.

Yeah. Right? Isn't that wild? I mean, it sounds kind of incriminating, but... Well, no, he was like, they literally never... I mean, he's a police officer. He's like, they never fucking interviewed me. I know, but it sounds a little...

It sounds... I know... Yeah, I agree. I actually thought it sounded the opposite because I was like, if I never got interviewed, I'd be like fucking zip it. Like, I'm not going to point attention to the fact that no one ever asked me anything. But it is weird because you would usually think the first person would be. Right. Well, that's what he said.

He was like, well, usually like the husband did it. You know, that's kind of like the cliche. Maybe it was such a small town. They like just knew he would never do it. I don know maybe but even he was like it was really weird they never interviewed us because i mean maybe but maybe not even as the suspect but maybe like do you know anyone who could have hurt them right i mean like yeah nothing just for information anyway so he it's just weird anyway lou passed away in august of 2010 in west virginia st mary's wow west virginia that's basically virginia to

some people i got confused did you really yeah you've got to be kidding me west virginia wrong wrong state you said it in a way like how about that and i was like yeah i literally like tapped you like good for you that's like me being like and it happened in kentucky and you're like okay 10 minutes away you would be more right than i am to be fair west virginia is like two or three hours away from my bad i think it's actually like two or three hours away from me so maybe maybe that's our that's our meetup point next time we're home just some john denver make a little cabin cozy nature cozy let's fucking let's just move there and what are the odds that our meetup spot is the epitome of nature cozy it makes a lot of sense listen i'm just saying and also in the

middle of nowhere it's exactly where i want to be yes uh so he passed away just oh just three months before the release of the documentary which is really sad and he was interviewed in the documentary so um he was only 63 years old his okay this part actually made me cry a little bit his second wife who he had the five children with arranged for his ashes to be buried in Spring Grove Cemetery in East Liverpool next to his first wife, daughter, and unborn child. Oh, that's tough. That's tough. And also, it's very sweet, but also very sad. I know, but it's just so heartbreaking.

And also, just the fact that she knew how important that was to bring him back to his first family is just the most... So sad. Anyway. to his first family is just like the most so sad oh anyway um so mr tweed's daughter uh who at the time of the documentary was 72 and living outside of cambridge ohio also don't know what that is i need to get better at my whoops uh said police never questioned her either and it was her father's store her family's store her father's murder never asked her a goddamn question maybe the maybe the even the killer's like i can't believe they didn't fucking interview me like oh my god like maybe they just never interviewed anyone he's like that was too easy like damn and then it had to happen again six years later right maybe he's like testing and he was like maybe

this time they'll interview me i love this triple murder habit i've got going right uh yeah so she was actually in her 30s the time it happened so i mean she would have been the perfect person to interview and ask about the maybe the store like if they had any enemies like i don't know but current officers can't speak to the specifics of who was or was not interviewed because the case is actually still open um but apparently an old uh a review of the old file showed that police did hundreds of interviews okay i forgot about this of potential suspects and witnesses so not just suspects but like they did hundreds of interviews but somehow skipped uh the most important people right just kind of skipped a

circle outward i guess um obviously there were it is still also shocking that there happened to be no freaking witnesses when this happened like in the main road of this town on a busy day like a lunch hour i mean like what's uh the the nurse walked francis walked in like right after this happened right right people were out shopping you know it wasn't like wow this person waited till closing to rob the store it was like just in the middle of broad daylight but yet nobody saw anything and he fled on foot presumably um somebody said oh a retired police officer named uh dave mumaw said he would have had to been have been covered with blood so like the fact that no one seemed to spot in this small town yeah unless he like brought a jacket or something but even on a giant parka

it's just like fucking the middle of august all right don't mind but then that would be something weird too like that guy was in a jacket probably covering up probably even weirder than walking around covered in blood right um he also is he also said i've also felt that the person lived in that area and knew the area which probably maybe maybe explains like how they got away so quickly without being seen like maybe they knew how to escape through an alley i have no idea um not everyone believes a killer could be a local obviously like on the other hand of that like you it makes sense that it could be a local because it's like oh they knew the store they

knew how to get away but at the same time like it's such a small town that everyone knows everyone and like it must be so hard to keep a secret like that that no one would ever be suspicious that you came home in a giant parka one day right right my roommate was acting really weird like it must be so hard to keep a secret like that that no one would ever be suspicious that you came home in a giant parka one day right my roommate was acting really weird um and also it's hard to believe i guess too this is actually page's point it's hard to believe that someone like your neighbor could be capable of like murdering an old man a pregnant woman and a child yeah so it's like nobody was like pointing fingers in town like just very baffling basically the whole thing uh some people think that the suspect was just

passing through um or that it could have been a serial killer which i feel like often often happens to be like just a like a like a throwaway excuse exactly like must be a serial killer that we don't know and apparently don't care enough about just lump him in with all the others um but another retired officer uh says in the documentary that an out-of-town robber would have been more likely to hold up the gas station down the street than a small used furniture store which is a very interesting point right like why would you go rob like this random furniture store when you could rob like a more lucrative yeah lucrative place i don't know no i guess that doesn't make sense yeah i wouldn't peg a furniture store as like the place with the most money like an antique used furniture it wasn't like right like a place with seemingly probably makes less money than other storefronts yeah yeah i guess

the only thing i could imagine is like because he's an old man maybe easy to take he was vulnerable which would make me think that they he they knew the owner yeah but then you'd think that they would have done it when there weren't people in the shop you know this makes no sense anyway it sounds like it was his lunch break maybe they thought he'd close for lunch oh maybe so then maybe it was just random that there were two people there but they were hoping no one would be there do you think that they would kill they went to kill him or just rob the store i would imagine just rob the store like it's not like a 75 year old man is gonna like do too much damage to you

for the most part but i i guess they were but the fact that he was stabbed 27 times it sounds really personal like overkill you know yeah literal overkill but like he the robber whatever okay no i'm with you like the robbery makes no sense but it's also like why the 27 times sounds personal unless you are maybe not maybe if it was someone passing through and they weren't obviously mentally well for committing random murder but maybe like to have that much violence and passion for no reason you know and then maybe it was a serial killer who knows i mean i don't know but that seems just so random apparently like people who knew mr tweet also knew he was known to carry cash usually at least 200 bucks so maybe it was someone who knew him and knew hey this guy tends to carry cash on him uh i could just go in and easily so maybe they were

trying to rob him personally like i want your wallet maybe he fought back i don't know i don't know who knows i'm gonna solve it right now actually it sounds like you're on it we're not leaving you're on the case hot to trot oh i wish uh mr moomaw so the detective said the secret could be quote locked up in a family which sounds like the best movie title like locked up in a family like a family secret that no one has shared you know what i mean uh but yeah okay like like the people who know it are like just members of a family but he thinks by now someone would have said something so perhaps not but he does believe the killer by now is dead that's his theory sure it was like 40 years ago yeah it was a long time ago yeah 50 years ago i think for 50 you're right it's almost 50 god damn the 70s were 50 years ago yikes how i wasn't even here for the 70s and it

doesn't feel like 50 years ago i know it's not good it's not good um if people and people born in the 70s were like were they in high school when i was born that checks out right it depends on when but like they were near like high school college age right yeah yeah and now 50 wow yikes um anyway the uh so the daughter of mr tweed says in the documentary quote i can't imagine somebody doing that kind of thing that much violence and then going on and living a completely normal life after that that kind of person is going to continue with that kind of behavior she says she tries not to dwell on what happened all those years ago and would like to see the crime solved but she's kept some distance uh she's kept some

distance from a local group columbiana county family jesus columbiana county families of homicide victims and the vigils they've held for murder victims. She says, you have to pick up and move on with your life after something like this. Otherwise, it takes over the rest of your life. And that is the story of the Tweed Morris triple murder. Wow. Thank you, Paige, for literally helping me discover this for being our like research assistant for the day honestly like the sources are all here like it's unbelievable um one of

them is called ghosting12.com so that's fun oh wow um but every time i would search for it and i would like find an article i'd be like oh shit sure sure he did sure he did however i did find a new article oh okay you did good too christine i did too i tried uh also like i gotta check can you imagine someone sends me this whole story and then i read it and everyone's like that none of that is true or you just someone's suing you now because you just like please don't sue us we're trying really hard over here murder uh no somebody wrote an article in june of 2016 because guess there was, I had actually heard about this. There was a man who died by suicide in an East Lake apartment in 2002. And it was discovered that he had been living under the stolen identity of an eight-year-old boy who died in 1945.

Have you heard about this? No. So I'd heard like briefly about it. it um and so this author or the author of this article on uh pressurelife.com uh he the article is called the curious case of the unknown man part two and at first he had tried to link john doe this guy because he had this assumed identity for his whole life and so they were trying to figure out who he was so first this author um adam he said he was trying to link him to the zodiac killer because it was like the same region but that didn't interesting interesting yeah that didn't pan out but so his next theory was that

maybe it was the killer of the morris tweed morris triple murders that was his theory then i read this whole article going wow that's amazing oh my god it could really be and then i was like didn't they hold on and i googled the guy and in 2018 they uh figured out who he was and it was actually a man named joseph newton chandler the third so oh wow and i mean it could i guess it could have been the murderer maybe i didn't there's no way of saying that joseph newton chandler the third was not the murderer i guess well but there hasn't been any proof since then that uh he could uh he was the guy but maybe well but look at even his wikipedia says that uh he could possibly have been on the run after committing one or more violent crimes some people did believe he was the zodiac killer that that was never

confirmed what a fun theory i like how everyone is possibly the zodiac killer honestly it's gonna be like it might be me when weiac killer honestly it's gonna be like it might be me when we figure it out and then we're like oh you could really tie anyone to one part of it and be like oh yeah that's them ted cruz thousand percent thousand however it also says he could very well have been like a nazi official um hiding out which hiding out from war crimes obviously and apparently they're following a link a potential link to the unsolved 1989 murder of amy mikhailovic so all right maybe i'll have to cover that um anyway so he was in the area maybe that is him maybe adam's right i don't know but uh it's just

a potential speaking of uh nazi officer or nazi officials hiding out uh if you have not watched the devil next door it's probably my favorite docu-series i've ever watched in my whole life i keep telling people that but like i don't think i've ever watched a documentary that good in my whole life so anyway it's always a gamble when a german says speaking of you know nazi war crimes i try to keep sound bites like that out of the podcast so people know this time you really got my eyes wide open there. Yeah.

You know, keep you on your toes. But like, I don't need anyone clipping clips of me and throwing them out there, you know. Sure. Speaking of slander. But anyway, so that's the story. And thank you, Paige, for sending that in. I like stumbled upon it completely randomly. And then I was like, Ohio.

And then I was like, unsolved. And here we are. All right. So thank you, Paige. so thank you page and thank you everyone for listening thank you everyone and uh if you want to hear more about what lin-manuel miranda is gonna be uh writing about we'll probably be doing a live stream with him soon so yeah you can check that out if we ever got him on the show that would be bananas uh let's do it all right everyone has some ghost stories everyone let's manifest that like right now okay can we figure out if lin-manuel miranda has ghost stories and then please can

he come on our show to tell them because that would be so fun so at least enough people tweet about us to him so he knows who we are and then maybe he'll hear the episode where we just like vouch that he'll do a broadway show off of my story but in a really normal way don't be like but like be a cool like be cool it's organic have it organically happen i mean i love you but you've almost gotten me re-blocked by zach bagans a number of times so like watch it we'll have to start making like on a spectrum from like lynn manuel miranda to zach bagans we would like to be in the good graces you know let's keep it up here we'll have to stay near lynn this time okay okay all right thanks i guess and that's why we drink bye tickets to our shows bye