And That's Why We Drink - E156 The Chairman of the Haunted House Committee and Too Many Walters

Episode Date: January 26, 2020

Don't worry, we have that DIY "How to Be a Medium" guide you've been waiting for. Well, Houdini does! Em is on to the second part in their series on Houdini's war against mediums and spiritualists, the Witch of Lime Street, in particular. Then Christine brings us the story of La Pistolera, Sharon Kinne and her wild string of "good" luck. Also, Walter might be trying to contact us through our stories... and that's why we drink!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Get an exclusive offer of an extra 30% off your first ThredUp order when you go to thredUP.com/DRINKDownload Best Fiends FREE on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That’s FRIENDS without the R – Best Fiends!Go to HelloFresh.com/whywedrink10 and use code whywedrink10 during HelloFresh’s New Year’s sale for 10 free meals including free shipping! Get 10% off during your first three months at ritual.com/ATWWD

greetings hello wow you're excited to see me i see i'm trying to find the uh i'm trying to find my notes i was waiting for the day you came over all the way to my house from burbank and then finally said i don't like this anymore and it's finally happened i just okay i well it lasted a really long time it definitely took a lot longer than expected but i i'm just a little sleepy today that's all i know m ate a lot of carbs i yeah wow i ate a whole lot of well i actually ate a lot of like starchy potato stuff on my way here but then i also ate a literal lot of, well, I actually ate a lot of like starchy potato stuff on my way here. But then I also ate a literal half of a watermelon.

So I'm feeling very full. My belly feels full. And so I just want to take a little nap. Oh, my gosh. Well, you can do that during my story. You usually do it anyway. I'll definitely show signs of it per usual. Oh, there I am. Hello to the people who are listening we just flipped the camera around on youtube and now i realize i'm probably not even on the screen so i figured i should it's probably best that way i think so too i've seen the comments people would prefer if this was just a one-man show um how are you what are you doing i'm'm great. I did want to tell you, so Blaze recently, this is like a brand new update as of like 30 minutes ago.

Oh, okay. I really don't know about this. So this woman keeps ringing our doorbell and I do this thing where I go and I hide. Right. And then I turn on the ring doorbell and I look at who it is and it's this older lady. Every time? Yeah. Okay. It's been a couple days now.

And so, of course, I think first, oh, I'm in trouble. Right. I've done something wrong. I would think that. Right? And so I hide. Or someone's stealing my shit or someone's trying to break in. Or that.

Right. None are good. Oh, okay. So Blaze finally was home during one of these of me hiding under my covers so he literally by the way so he went down to answer the door and he was gone for like five to ten minutes she killed him i almost i almost blazed where is he no i well he did go into her home okay wait okay here's the thing she wanted to give us a gift this is not a joke the universe has been really wild lately guys and you'll see if you go to a live show you'll see what we mean about like

the universe is just i mean we definitely have just thrown a caution to the wind we can't like the we can't make this shit up so this is what uh blaze walked back in the front door with this i have to grab it i was hiding it from you oh thank god because i would have been like no here i go riffing christine is walking walking away stay stay away this is my show now oh here she comes shit she's on to us she She's back. It's no longer a onesome. It's been fun, guys. I guess Christine's hosting us again. Now she's got a bag. Okay. Okay, she's chill. The suspense is killing me.

He walks in with a bag and he goes, Christine, this woman literally looks at me and goes, I have a lot of lemons. I'm sorry. Do you want a bag of lemons? And Blaze was like, I just stared at her for a solid 10 seconds, contemplated saying no. Is she a fan? No. If she's a fan and knows where you live, that's a whole other ball of wax we have to figure out. No, she has a lemon tree and she's like, we have like hundreds of them.

So she's like, we're just going to deliver you lemons now. Okay. Okay. Look at this he literally there's i'm literally saying at least 30 lemons there's dozens of them um she also gave us oranges but blaze was more concerned about the lemons can you imagine though like she has no idea no idea who she gave a bag of lemons to and like if she just gave up on trying to like pre-warn you and like just left a bag of lemons we would have thought there was some stalker going to kill you yeah she has no idea what she almost what crisis she almost well this poor one is like very elderly like i really didn't think she was going to murder me maybe she has an accomplice

but um no yeah she uh she apparently just had she said my fruit trees grew a lot of fruit today or this year and uh her garden is prospering i mean look at this i mean literally i'm looking at a massive bag of lemons and i just walked in the front door and i just like i couldn't believe that he's like is this god is this i don't know it second one second one for sure el diablo no real god would uh let this happen anyway certainly not mine so that just happened literally probably 10 minutes before you showed up i'm telling you interesting i wonder i think blaze is so a little shook because i did see him on my way in and he was very stunned and i was like what's going on yeah oh yeah he still

hadn't processed maybe i'd set this up i was like listen i don't have the energy for that i don't have the literal time so now we have like 45 lemons um congratulations i don't want any of them please don't give them to me um i will say christine one thing we are not talking about what we just had our first leg of a tour oh yeah i got distracted by lemons as everyone did but guys we just had our first leg. And I will tell you, we were scared. We did not know how it was going to go. It went, dare I say, phenomenal. It was great.

It was bananas good. You guys were so fucking supportive. And it was our first three, so they were a little bumpy. But everyone was so kind, so supportive, amped. The show went really long. It went really long. Two hours really hours long we need to figure out a way to shorten it because we've been told it must be like a 90 minute set and we keep doing a solid 120 yeah oopsies but we can't there's and also there's so much stuff that like we want

to talk about and we just like there's no there's no time to fit it all in so we're trying to figure out a way to shorten it but it's very hard i can't even tell you there's so much and like we haven't told you a word so everyone showed up and was like what is going on oh yeah a lot of people i'm sure have like i've seen online people speculating what the new format could be or even wondering if the format is really all that different the answer is a fat fucking yes and we don't even really know what it is to the to the people who either went to the phoenix la or san diego show they are all like probably giggling in their cars being like i know what they're talking about but it is truly fucking bananas compared to last our last tour it really

there's like a little bit of everything um you're gonna cry you're gonna laugh you're gonna awe in or in uh honor i'm wearing our our new merch look at this we have new merch it's so fucking cool fun fact someone that helped do animation for the Muppets designed it for us by the way that's right I forgot about that we always forget to like we bury the lead so quickly with these things

but Kirk helped us and Kirk was like oh I have a friend that used to work for the Jim Henson company is it okay if they help design I was like oh yeah also there's a friend that used to work for the Jim Henson Company. Is it okay if they help design? I was like, oh, yeah. Also, there's a little Easter egg on the back in the tour list. So you got to find out. You got to buy it to find it.

Yep. Also, you can go to ATWWDmerch.com. That's our new merch site. And it's a little sparse right now because we're building it up. But all the tour merch, we're selling it only at shows right now. But then after the tour uh whatever's left we are going to sell online so it'll be available at some point and uh speaking of things you can find online we've already mentioned uh oh my god we've already mentioned that i kidnapped a lemon at one

point and i did an escape room for the people who've gone to the phoenix la and san diego shows you know uh how i ended up getting lemon how lemon was lemon wound up in m's grasp exactly and uh and then ever since for like months now i've had lemon i kidnapped him and then i literally with my bare hands and a sleep deprived brain built an escape room and made christ complete it to win Lemonback. And then I made a feature length film of the experience because Em filmed it and it was the wildest escape room. Like, I mean, people who are watching it are like, this is the most elaborate, like well thought out escape room. Thank you, guys.

I really tried to make it a professional grade. Like multiple people have called you a genius. So you should screenshot that in case you're ever feeling. I have and I will again. Yeah. If you're ever feeling down because you it was the it was amazing and so just bonkers and so uh even i did attempted to do the escape room and m filmed it and it was like an hour and a half of footage so i made it's not that long anymore but i made like a trailer and i made it it's like 28

minutes total but it's like a whole episode basically but it's only on patreon so um this is our special little because we feel like we've been kind of um slacking on there so we're making more content and this is one of uh yes and uh for the people who either have gone to a live show or about to go to a live show you may or may not know what we're talking about right now but when you do see the show uh there is additional content that we will also be putting on patreon oh that's right over time so if stuff that didn't make it into our live show that we didn't have time for is also going to end up on patreon um just because we want to make sure people see it uh which i promise you want to join you want to see this content if you've been to one of the three shows we've already done i know you also want to see more of what we showed you but it's truly this show like i

and i've even said i know we're talking a lot but um uh it's our fucking podcast i know we're talking a lot i know we're using our mouths a lot i'll stop real quick um but our like last tour not that i was ever ashamed of our show but i am just such a naturally nervous anxious person that my own friends i was like please don't come to the show i don't like i just don't want you to see me on stage what if i mess up and of all people the closer you are to me the more i really don't fucking want you at my show because your opinion matters more it's true so aka i never want my mother at my show ever because i'm so terrified of like that's going to be the one time that like the place catches on fire because of me and but I texted my mom a couple days ago and I was like I'm really excited for you to see this show and I've never ever thought those words

would come out of my mouth I was going to ask you because I was like I know how much you like hate people coming but I was going to ask if this changes things yeah I like I've never felt not and again I don't want to at all like hate on our last tour but like compared to our last tour where it was basically this format of a live it was just a live version of our podcast this one i'm telling you like we are so trying to keep our mouths shut but christina and i put I'm not kidding, hundreds of hours, hundreds of hours into this. And I think we just put so much work into it that I am so proud of it because I've never put this much work into fucking anything by a light year. Even if it didn't work as a lot.

Me neither. I've literally never worked on anything so hard. I've never worked this hard on anything. In such an intense amount of time. And anyway, we're really proud of it. And we really hope you guys can come see it. we've told audiences not to spoil too much online so please be a good person to not do that because we want everyone to be super excited when they come fun surprise anyway just come to our show we really hope you do we're going to san antonio this this

week yes and uh also san francisco we're at like the coolest venue ever and we'd love it's like palace of fine arts it's like Palace of Fine Arts. It's gorgeous. We don't deserve to know. We are not good looking enough. No, by far. So if you could if you could maybe buy to hop on over, I'm promising you will not regret this. Even if you're like brand new to the show and you're starting from the from the end or if you like need to drag someone with you you are not going like i've never been so confident about something i've done i'm usually

very self-deprecating but christine and i are so fucking proud of this show please please go and we have so much fun that like it's yeah it's less scary now because when we did the show last year we loved the shows we did but we there was different every time so we never knew we were like what if this is the one where yep we mess everything up and like thankfully you guys were all great and it never really happened but there was like an element of the unknown now we're like so pumped and confident and i think it's getting better each time we do it yep oh my god it's so much fun also this merch is just my favorite yes yes yes anyway now that we're done like bragging about ourselves i guess look and what 150 160 episodes we've i don't think we've ever bragged about ourselves this I guess. Look, what, 150, 160 episodes?

I don't think we've ever bragged about ourselves. This is our moment. 2020. 2020, man. You guys brag about yourselves. Thank you for getting us where we are, by the way. Tell us about what you're proud of. Also, as of right now, I know you're going to hear this a week later to all of our listeners,

but happy three-year anniversary to the podcast. I know. Well, it was just the conception day. Just the conception day. Our anniversary is like February something withary something with a seven yeah okay we'll figure that out it's coming up soon though it's coming up but three years ago today we had the idea of a podcast and believe it the weekend because this comes out on the 26th sure i don't know okay i think it does if this comes out on the 26th that's a full three years of the day i venmo'd you for the microphones oh my god seriously this is wild three years three years and i venmoed you for the microphones oh my god

seriously this is wild three years three years and now we're begging you to come to our shows because we're so proud of them not because we don't think it's not good and yeah we still think we're too ugly to perform at them but a thousand percent we'll never not think that okay all right i'm so sorry for everyone who's not able to make it to a show i'm sorry if we're just making you feel like shit we're not trying to we are also hoping that this is just how we do shows from now on. So like, even if we're not going to where you are, this is, this is our new thing. So don't worry. This is our new thing and it's not going to, we change a lot of things about ourselves,

but this one is not going to change. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I'm going to, I think for, wait, I have to do a Patreon, patron of the week. Okay. While you do that, I'm going to take my sweatshirt off because it's getting a little toasty. No, it's not going to look pretty. I don't know how to do that smoothly.

Literally, my notes are lemon napping on Patreon and Sacramento and San Francisco biotics. Biotics. Also, real quick, actually, let's just do elevator music because this is going to get loud and obnoxious. Okay. Okay. Em has taken off all their clothes. single one naked tune into youtube right now i know right just kidding um also the patron of the week i know you're so lucky lacy brewer thank you

lacy brewer good for you i know what a cool name you have what a cool name um welcome to you get like one of the big lemon episodes. So congratulations. Yeah. Well, congratulations. If that's something you wanted. If not, I'm sorry. Oops. Thanks for your support. Oh, OK. So.

All right. That's all I have. I have a story, as I should, since this is my job. This is part two. This is part two. Oh, I'm so excited. So for everyone listening to these in a row and who uh may be listening to them in chunks this story goes off of the houdini story from last week and it may seem more recent to you

because we actually recorded that a while ago so i'm gonna have to catch me and christine up a few times so i hope you're okay with us catching you up um so the last place that we where did we where did we end up so well we never got a call from lynn no you guys are really not helping us spread the word of this houdini broadway i'm gonna be honest a little lackluster out there lynn manuel miranda would scream if he thought of this i he there's no way that he has heard this idea and there isn't already something in the works but i haven't heard anything from him so maybe he's maybe i went to maybe i went to voicemail that's exactly it i thought maybe let me check my spam folder fax him well that'll get him i mean i'll see that page him real quick okay so the last place that we uh left off was that houdini in the 1920s uh intentionally went out of got out

of magic for a while um or maybe even like kind of broke up his magic act so that he could go on the road and expose mediums in the 1920s for being frauds um and then he would even perform on stage some of their tricks and call them out and try to keep mediums at bay from ever tricking anyone again as the master illusionist he thought it was fit for him to be able to do that just the best plot for a musical just saying so many magic tricks come on think of like the faux fireworks and the levitating all the stage and the singing while levitate oh uh listen okay and then m gets dragged across the stage happily. I'm like, drag me, Lin.

Okay. So. Oh, my God. So another fun thing about, I almost said Lin-Manuel Miranda. Another good thing. The main topic last episode was that Houdini actually had his own little crew of women who would go into these mediums homes and get personal readings from them so they could then take notes and give them to houdini right right so that was the mainly the story of rose mackenberg who was in charge of his whole little

army that would do that spook spook spies spook spies again len manuel miranda that could be the leading song title um okay uh so what we're gonna talk about this week is uh we're not talking about the spook spies anymore we're talking about houdini himself personally having this hell-bent vendetta that he is going to stop one of the most powerful mediums of the time excuse me i just burped um i don't care it's still funny to me like three years in i don't know i don't know why and also like you think by now i know my body and know when it's gonna happen just like it's also those gross burps like when your dog's sitting on the couch and just you're just kind of like you okay oh my god um okay so this is the story of the witch of lime

street and her name was mina marjorie crandon what and mina crandon who went by marjorie um was one of the biggest mediums of the time and houdini was like i'm fuck i'm gonna fucking change that that's not how this is gonna play out i'm gonna end this and she's going down wow so um let's get into this and also this i did warn last time this is a little longer than the last story so i apologize oh right you're allowed to start your road trip now yes now start you can start the first one i'm sorry we delayed it it's not you it's me it's houdini as said in the last episode that's a great quote someone put that on a shirt or i'm gonna lose my goddamn mind also put that on a shirt yeah that's your job now i guess um no somebody also made a uh design of uh i i can smell a rat before i smell the incense i saw that and i love it it's

so good i think that was atwwd memes i think that and it's not you it's not me it's houdini should both be in should be lyrics in a really empowered like impactful song just saying when so many possibilities okay so one of the mediums i just heard us talk about finding 45 lemons i think he does not want to be involved anymore and he's like look i wait he didn't hear it at all to be clear he didn't he's never gonna hear it but if he were to ever reach out to us though and be like i'm down to do this houdini thing i would absolutely fall over and my brain would melt out of my ears we need a new vision board dude okay my brain melting out of my ears that's number one let's go to michael's after this okay done i need new glitter so of the mediums that houdini debunked which was many

in the 1920s his worst nemesis and the medium he is best known for attacking personally was mina crandon so originally mina stinson grew up in canada hey and had an older brother named walter who died in a car crash in 1911 um and i've lost my place already cool um in 1918 mina married dr crandon hence mina crandon whose family dates back to the Mayflower fun fact. Oh my, that is fun. And they moved into 10 Lime Street in Boston, aka when you and I do our Boston show, we should pop by. Hey, do a little photo shoot.

Yes, exactly. Of the medium that Houdini hated the most. Correct. In 1923, her husband became interested in spiritualism and he had his friends over to try a seance. And when nothing happened, Mina started nervous laughing, as I know all too well wow and they told her hey this isn't funny this is a serious matter so nobody knows exactly what happened next it could either be truly magic or it could be the fact that she wanted to like stick it to her husband for embarrassing her in front of people

or whatever but pretty sure pretty soon after um he kind of scolded her in front of everyone soon enough the table began to move tilting upwards and crashing onto the floor seemingly by itself huh and mina said that she had been overcome by a spirit that made her do it so her husband was impressed with the new powers that she just learned i'm sorry i'm a little bit on Houdini's side right now. But for sure, we're look, we're committing to hearing this story. So this is how it's gonna have to play out. So Mina's husband was impressed with the new power that she had just learned. And they began practicing regularly and found out that or Mina found out that Walter,

her brother that had passed on was her spirit control so spirit control is essentially the higher powered spirit and during a seance that will speak for the rest of the spirits what oh like the like the mouthpiece yes so those he'll speak through you so walter was speaking for the other spirits in the room if you're a medium and i'm fucking that up i'm so super sorry that's really cool i've never heard that phrase so walter was apparently her spear control i guess she learned this through enough practicing seances um so soon walter could speak directly through mina with a deeper unfriendlier voice that often had her cussing which apparently she was not known to cuss um walter became her spear control and with enough practice she could soon levitate tables, do trance writings, and apparitions would appear in the middle of seances.

Oh, God. Okay. Her first skeptics said that she was, quote, too attractive for her own good. For, God, nobody can win in this world. No. But their argument was that she was so pretty that she was able to distract people at the seances while she did sleight of hand illusions to cause all of these manifestations this is its own superpower i guess look if your looks are your superpower fucking own it m does it every day i i tell you what it's it must be tough it's the cross-eyed bear so uh she argued that it was uh oh a lot of people argue

that it was to keep people from seeing the tricks that she that she was pulling. And a lot of times she was also known to be wearing kind of like a frumpy or loose dress. But people thought that that was her kind of implying that, you know, men were assholes at the time. So they thought that since it was loose clothing, she was implying she was a loose person or her clothes would be easy to take off and all that. Seriously. So if you were tight clothing, you're showing too much if you're a loose clothing it's because you're loose okay super and her argument was like no i'm wearing loose clothing so you know that there's literally nothing like strapped to me or like that's gonna like fall out of my pocket like i'm wearing loose clothing so you know nothing is attached to me that i'm going to use later as

a trick or like yeah you know i mean like maybe i'm not hiding anything under my clothes layers and right okay got it but others said it was to distract their eyes of course sure sure sure um so uh she got very famous very fast she her name just got spread across like wildfire probably because of her loose moomoos um and her seances became invitation only and she started going by marjorie as like her stage name that's a nice name though but she refused to be paid so that added to her credibility of like she wasn't doing this for money wow but she was already she was already famous for it so she was at least doing it for her reputation maybe she got like sponsorships from gatorade or something i mean hello fresh obviously that obviously. That's true.

That's true. From the other side. You're just like, hello. And then the apparition. Yes, exactly. This has been a commercial. Hashtag ad. So one of the people to come to her home seances, and remember, these were invitation only,

happened to be Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Oh. And like I said in the first episode, or the episode last week, he was one of the most famous spiritualists, and he was very close at one point with Houdini. Did I say that last time? I don't think so. I'm about to tell you then.

Cool. So Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. I could be forgetting it, so don't trust me, but... I don't know anymore. But either way, I'm surprised. When I did these notes, he was a big name, and then I broke them in half, and I don't know where I placed him him but it looks like i'm about to talk about him now he's here now okay so if we didn't hear about him last time we're hearing about him now so sir arthur conan

doyle he was the creator of sherlock holmes and other books such as the lost world which was the inspiration for jurassic park um so he's like he's a big guy he was also one of the most famous spiritualists of the time in the 1890s he he joined the British Society for Cyclical Research and London's Ghost Club, which, by the way, is still active. Wait, really? Charles Dickens was also in that. Fun fact. Can we do it?

Christine, do you think I have not looked into like applying to every single group? We'll talk about it later. Okay. So can I come too? And he's like, no, you're not invited. Remember the one last uh last week who has like the committee for haunted houses yes obviously we're the party planning committee on that the party it is your birthday we're the ppc of the hhc it is haunted a thousand percent

uh so uh oh so sir uh conan doyle he and houdini, they, oh, I'm sorry. The organizations he was part of, they both aimed to investigate scientifically the claims of spiritualism and other paranormal activities. So it was pretty much like a debunking group. While in these groups, Sir Doyle, I'm just going to call him Doyle from now on. Sir Doyle. He started being open-minded to the paranormal and donated lots of money to them. Hence why he started becoming really well known as a spiritualist. Um, cause he was one of the bigger donators, donors, Patreon donators. I don't know. Uh, just like you could be. He also

can watch the lemon napping. Yeah. I'm sure he really wants to. So after world war one, where Doyle's son Kingsley died, um, that's when he began holding his own seances with his wife and became a devout believer in the afterlife because he's so desperate to see his son again. After creating Sherlock Holmes, he decided to abandon writing fiction and devoted himself to just studying the paranormal. I had no idea about this. Oh, yeah. It's bananas. So some thought that he was losing it, though because uh he actually fell for a doctored picture of fairies existing and he literally started publicly announcing that fairies were real and

people were like oh this guy's kind of losing it he like took it too far for yeah well because then people said that like the picture was doctored and then he still swore that it was real and they're like oh boy oh yeah he's off the deep end so um he later actually fun fact hoped and wishes that he will be remembered for his psychic work rather than his novels and he died in 1930 sorry bud oops that didn't happen hey we're doing our part we're trying right now everyone forget everything you know about Sherlock Holmes and start thinking about the party planning committee for the haunted houses. First tweet out Lin-Manuel. Then wait a minute. Then do something about forget about Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Why are you not writing something about Sherlock Holmes turning into like the writer of Sherlock Holmes becoming a ghost, a paranormal expert? That's a whole other thing. Hold on. That's our second musical. And he becomes best friends with Houdini. And you could add that into the storyline of Houdini Broadway. When you are wasting your your talent here think of the merchandising opportunities think of the

magic tricks you could start selling we know a guy at jim henson we do i don't know if he knows us anymore but so uh sir doyle he even saw mina um or marjorie either. He saw her perform at one of her home seances that he was invited to. And he was convinced at that point that she was the real deal. Even though one was a believer and one was a skeptic, him and Houdini were really, really close friends for a very long time. Both had interest in spiritualism, but just opposite beliefs where Doyle was all about it and Houdini was very much a skeptic. Sure. But Doyle for a long time believed that Houdini was also purely 100% made of magic. He was like, there's no way you're an illusionist.

And I can't imagine their dinner conversations where Houdini was like, no, dude, this is a fucking joke. Like, I'm telling you how I'm doing it. I'm literally showing you the magic trick. And Doyle's like, amazing, genius, great, brilliant. I can't imagine how you're, you're magic. So he's literally the most gullible person, even. he's really desperate for magic to be real or for spiritualism to because first the fairies now this he's just really excited about it and i can't blame him no me neither so their friendship actually ended in 1922 when doyle's wife offered because doyle's

wife was also sensitive and um suggested that she could try to make contact with Houdini's mom, because remember, that's why he got into spiritualism. He was trying to contact his mom. Turns out that Doyle's wife had actually just recently talked to Houdini's wife in a lot of detail about his mom. Oh, come on. And so she ended up tricking him into talking and saying a lot of things that only his mom would have said because Bess, his wife, had just told her. That's extremely hurtful.

Especially your friend's work. Yeah. Like your friend's or your husband's friend. That really. Plus, a lot of things during the seance didn't add up. So, like, Houdini's mom was Jewish, but Doyle's wife was drawing crosses during automatic writing um yeah it's just so disrespectful yeah it was like a lot of things just didn't add up also i think um the mom only spoke the mom didn't speak any english or couldn't even write couldn't write english and also didn't speak perfect english but everything that was

coming through um during the seance it was just adding up to someone who like fluently understood english also the sands happened on his mom's birthday and that never got brought up and houdini's like my mom would absolutely mention that she loves her birthday she fucking loves it's her day just like emin christine so exactly if you ever do a seance for me on my birthday and i don't say something it's not me then the universe is that there's no afterlife exactly you would come through oh i would i'm making it clear now every single person who's listening try to make contact with me i will find a way to show the fuck up i will be there if you didn't get a meet and greet ticket for this

year's show please don't kill me to have a meeting wait wait on that one otherwise i'm gonna meet in green i'm not gonna be in a good mood um so ultimately houdini felt played obviously and the friendship ended but i wanted to add that in before i got back to mina so mina is making a big famous medium in boston and in 1922 right when their relationship when uh houdini and doyle's relationship had ended, spiritualism was having a rebirth at this exact same time, and the Scientific American Magazine launched an investigation. And they had two different rewards that they were willing to pay. They were going to pay $2,500 for a spirit photograph or physical phenomenon under test

conditions. Oh. Oh, and during that one, Dr. Cndon actually wrote in suggesting his wife because he was so convinced that his wife had magical powers right and sir arthur doyle also vouched that they should consider her because he had seen her in real time and been like this person's the real deal but he'd also seen a lot of things and said he'd also seen this person's the real deal but he was also like a well enough known person at the time where his opinion still mattered for sure so two people were vouching for mina and so when they when scientific american

magazine put out this request two really powerful people were vouching for this person so she she came in first got it um to be looked at and the investigating panel was a harvard psychology professor an mit physicist the head of the american society for psychical research and a psychic investigator and one of the assistant editors on the scientific american magazine named malcolm bird so all pretty like high up people who aren't fucking around like when it comes to test conditions they're not going to mess around with this so at one point apparently houdini had actually suggested that Scientific American magazine do an investigation like this. Like forever ago, he suggested this panel and they never got his approval for it.

They just did it without telling him. Rude. Like they took his idea and ran with it. Lynn, do not follow their lead. You need our permission first so houdini ended up finding out like through the like these classified um through the literally through the classifieds i think of like all these requests for people um that were sensitive or mediums sure to be investigated he found out at the same time as everyone else and he was like what the fuck like they're literally doing this panel that i suggested

and didn't add me to ask me to be on it didn't get my approval so he found out while he was on tour for his own magic act and uh he was pissed off so he found out where they were gonna go meet up with mina and he canceled the his next shows to go infiltrate the panel and be on it himself i love this guy he's literally just not fucking around he really isn't so before their first seance so houdini but at this point like fast forwarding houdini is on the panel because he's decided he's on the panel because he is on the fucking panel he was like there's nothing you can say about this so i'm here he is not leaving and i've canceled my tour so i'm here now can you imagine if i texted you and i was

like by the way our show is over i need to go find out about this medium yeah the haunted house committee had a meeting and i just decided i'm on the i'm a chairman on the board now so uh so before the very first seance that houdini was now part of and they were going to be testing mina um houdini wrapped her uh wrapped his own legs for hours um to make them super super sensitive um that way apparently walter the spirit control that mina uses or her brother the past on one of the Walter, the spirit control that Mina uses, or her brother that passed on, one of the ways that the spirit would present himself or show that he was there is he would ring bells during the seance. There were these phantom bells or bells that were misplaced in different areas of the room, and nobody knew where the bells were or who was controlling them.

So Houdini wrapped up his legs so they'd be super sensitive and he asked to sit next to Marjorie. And he asked that the bell be placed between his feet. So that way, wherever the bell usually is, where it's ringing by itself, he was like, I want the bell next to me, next to my super sensitive leg. And sure enough, he felt Mina's leg brush up against him and try to ring the bell sure under the table okay so he's trying to do it to like debunk her and want to make sure his leg was as sensitive as possible to feel anything that was coming near him she must have been so nervous like oh uh sure we could put the can we just a couple inches forward also like no big deal but the master of illusions is coming to see what illusions you fucking come up with your stupid illusions and at this point like he's created this panel because he's all if you

have listened to the the previous episode first then you know that he has been hell-bent i keep saying my word but he really is obsessed with um like getting these mediums out and like exposing them and yeah he uh and so at this point for him to be said he already suggested a panel he's already been on this this is not his first debunking he is known in the medium community as he is going to ruin you if he can so imagine he just shows up hey if he walks through the door like oh you know your career is over at that point so um so he uh catches marjorie and several other tricks too including throwing items that uh looked like they had thrown themselves because she had literally asked people to close their eyes that's what i was about to say like is she just saying oh everyone

it works better if you close your eyes and people are listening like sir arthur doyle he's like this woman's a goddamn in all her loose clothing she just has like shoes in there she's throwing them well apparently when she at some point i'm imagining she had everyone close their eyes but he like must have peaked at some point or something but he noticed that she was literally like while she was having her hands held like she was using her head to move the table like just like digging at it like a dog trying to get to food you are kidding with me so he waited to expose her until a few more tests could be conducted but he was like she is absolutely a big old phony i wonder if the whole time she's like i don't think he he's not that slick maybe i got him

so literally open your eyes houdini okay so uh he was like i know she's guilty i know she's not like this is not a spirit but i'm gonna wait until more tests are conducted. But the press kept claiming that she was stumping them, that there was like the panel could not figure out how she was doing this stuff. So Houdini, at this point, pissed already with the other mediums he's trying to expose. He vowed to outwit her. He was like, OK, fine. Let's have the press think that you're fooling me. But like, I'm going to fucking get you. I love this.

have the press think that you're fooling me but like i'm gonna fucking get you i love this but desperate to make her out to be a fraud he ended up contaminating the investigation by planting his own traps to catch her and she knew about that like he wasn't slick on his own so deanie she had her own trap set to trick them but then he had his own traps to trick her to trick them and it was a mess so he was so desperate that he ended up fucking up the investigation and like there was no way of seeing like which traps she had set sure so like nobody knew who was right or wrong and the panel was already pissed at houdini for just like fucking waltzing in and deciding he's on the panel and now he's like contaminating the investigation so they're more likely to side with mina at this

point be like you're the one doing all this stuff saying that she's not doing it yeah yeah yeah so uh oh my god one time even houdini brought his own bell to the seance room and told the spirit to ring it for the circle and he thought he's like being real fucking slick but the panel at this point pissed at houdini they were like we have to check everything he brings in now because he's a master illusionist. So they grabbed the bell from him before they even tried to use it in the seance. And he had literally rubber banded all the contact points so that it would be silent. Oh, so that's cheating. Yeah.

So there was no way the spirit was going to be able to do it. So even if there was a spirit. Even if there was a spirit, spirit was gonna be able to do it so then there was a spirit even if there was a spirit it wouldn't have worked but then he could say mina if you can't get the spirit to ring the bell then you're clearly not a medium sure but he was preventing that from happening anywhere to fail no matter what exactly but where my biggest question out of all of this m is where are they getting all these bells truly i don't know where is where's the bell store like where's this there must be a bell store right so it reminds me speaking of this uh the lemon napping i there's one clip in there

where you're like what are you gonna do with all these locks like there's a lot of locks guys i locked like 15 boxes for this goddamn thing and you kept going where are all these locks gonna go honestly it struck me all of a sudden like you, you have 45 padlocks now. You're going to need... Listen, next time you need a padlock, I fucking got one of every size, shape, and color. That's true. So, weirdly enough, though, when they did take the pieces of rubber band off of the bell, it did start ringing by itself. He must have been so pissed. Walter was like, I'm going to fucking ring this. He finally came through.

So, one day, also, Houdini came to mina's house with a special human-sized box for marjorie to sit in during the seance the box would only allow her head neck and arms to move but not her legs and feet so she couldn't move them under any tables or anything and marjorie said that it would stifle the psychic process and houdini was like i fucking bet yeah i'm sure would so uh but she tried it anyway. And during one of the seances, and the lid of the box did rip itself off, allegedly by Walter, her spirit assistant. But the next night, Houdini added locks to the lid to make sure that the members of the committee, he also, sorry, he added locks to the lid, comma. And he made sure that the members of the panel were holding

her down to make sure her hands were not god we're not moving anything um if only they just had like a ring door but like a video camera like a nest in the corner of the box yeah because yeah they wanted to make sure that she wasn't doing something that manipulated the lid to fly off by itself sure so during that seance apparently walter the spirit control that mina is speaking through or speaking through mina accused houdini of leaving some articles in the box oh and walter claimed that houdini had left a folding ruler like a ruler that literally is like switchblade kind of like it folds out to be a full-blown ruler sure uh placed a folding ruler in the box which if unfolded could have helped to like pry

the box without really moving her hands like she could have grabbed it and then it was so tall it could have moved the lid for her sure so houdini denied any part in leaving anything in the box but years later even houdini's assistant admitted to planting the device there oh so wait so he did it on purpose houdini was hoping that the panel would find out that Mina was using a ruler to move the lid. He was like planting things, hoping she would use them so he could call her out and say, you put the ruler there. Holy shit. He was like trying to help her fail so that way he could say you failed. Yeah.

It was, he was too desperate. I was going to say, he's hell bent. Hell bent. I don't know what else. Hell bent houdini lynn that's what i said last time and then you changed it to spook spies i like yours i do oh hang on i like both i don't know i haven't decided we could do one for the prequel and one for the listen i think you're right i think you're on something obviously we're in both of them that's

the only way that's the only confirmed obviously we're the only two people singing on stage and everyone else just looks at us with just like enamored okay enamored yes i'm sure so uh again this could have been let's in a world where walter is not an actual spirit that is speaking through mina she could have gotten in the box seen that something was there that she did not put there and then pretending she was walter accused Houdini in front of everyone. So it looked like even Mina didn't know. Sure. So it looks like the spirit found something that Houdini planted.

How did it say it? Did it, like, speak? Well, apparently, yeah. So Walter speaks through Mina, but apparently in a deeper voice that cusses. Oh, so? Which apparently is not her style, so it would be a different. She's like, there's a fucking ruler in here. And he's like, apparently is not her style so it would be like there's a fucking ruler in here that's not her man that's walter that's for sure walter um also why are there so

many spirits named fucking walter i cannot get my head i wasn't gonna say anything but like every spirit we've met recently has been somehow named walter it's the truth it's the truth and there's one here somewhere in here somewhere i haven't felt him in a while, but I mean, either. Despite everything, some of the committee members were still reporting that Mina was passing her tests because they couldn't tell at this point if Houdini had planted all of the things that made her look like she wasn't credible. Right. And to investigate the spirit voices, though, this is pretty interesting. The committee carefully measured an amount of colored water in her mouth. Like they put it in her mouth.

Then they had a seance. And with her mouth full of water, Walter was able to speak freely. And afterwards, the water in her mouth was the same amount when they measured it again. So gross. She just spit it back out. Yeah. But apparently, like, she should have swallowed a little bit of it to be able to speak or something or maybe move just to the side i don't know but they did everything they could they even had her at one

point um like blowing a balloon in the middle of a seance and while she was blowing into a balloon where she should not be able to speak at all you could still hear walter's voice so can't you just watch her yeah like i don't really understand the whole there's like so how do you maybe her husband was like a ventriloquist and like was speaking for her you know but also like how do you know she's blowing the balloon yeah if you're closing your eyes she could just be like yep i'm blowing it here i go um so one time she was encased in a different lock box which would only permit her arms and legs to move but she could still ring bells snuff out candles and actually made a rocking chair across the room move that's pretty good so there is some stuff that like doesn't get explained but houdini felt like it was

obviously he needed to prove the truth right and he started feeling like obviously personally challenged as an illusionist if he couldn't figure something out like what was going on with him right so uh his hatred for spiritualists and mediums were also highly publicized at this point which i've mentioned. And so his reputation felt threatened that if he could not get Mina Crandon to confess, then he was not a good enough illusionist and his own reputation and show would be damaged. That's wild. So since the committee refused to report that Mina was suspicious or fraudulent, Houdini began publishing his own report, which is what I talked about in the last show so i remember in the last episode i said there was gonna be a lot of time traveling here yeah in one of the in the early part of the last episode i brought up that he started creating

his own report called houdini exposes the tricks used by the boston medium marjorie so like he literally made like a diy book of uh the Marjorie was just one of them. But a lot of the a lot of the mediums that he had been exposing with his little group of spook spies, he had been taking all of their tricks and literally making a booklet and selling it essentially as a DIY, like be your own medium. Yeah. So Mina got her own chunk in there. Be your own medium. Be your own medium be your own medium 101 so one of them it was titled who or this was actually a newspaper article when her part came out

houdini exposes the tricks used by the boss in medium marjorie and it literally had diy drawings in it so you could also manifest your own spirits mediumship for dummies i'm trying to like market this too for our show i mean it's i mean if show. I mean, if Zach can do the ghost hunting. Ghost hunting for dummies. But imagine a picture of Houdini on the. So cool. So he also began incorporating and performing her miracles in his acts, just like he was doing while exposing other mediums. And then I said this in the last one too, but he did this specifically for Amina at one point.

He also did this for other mediums when he was in their town. He challenged that if they wanted him to stop, then he would literally pay them sometimes five times, sometimes ten thousand dollars to do something that he couldn't recreate. And he would leave their town and stop exposing mediums. Let me guess. It never happened. Never happened. happened never happened so houdini is quoted saying i am willing to be convinced my mind is open but the proof must be such as to leave no vestige of doubt that what is claimed to be done is accomplished only through or by supernatural power so he's like i will stop but you have to

prove to me first that like this is supernatural like it's not something i can recreate right right so uh his hatred for mediums was at also at the height of his stardom and he started arguably uh assisting in the decline of spiritualism so because he was so big and was so against spiritualism there's theories that he helped actually make spiritualism decline after the 1920s sense people are like oh yeah you know what i've been skeptical and now he's saying it so i'm on board so um despite being roasted as i wrote in my notes um mina retained her good reputation as a medium and grew in her quote abilities but some would argue that this was just to stay relevant as an a-list celebrity is telling everyone to stop believing in you right she had to like up her ante sure so um she ended up having

more of a showmanship based uh set of illusions during her seances and so she was saying that her powers were growing but maybe it was just because she was desperate to keep her fame maybe so they said that she was able to manifest ectoplasm at this point for god's sake which looked uncommonly like lung tissue and awful awful which sounds awful it's um animal entrails super and apparently so it looks gross it looks like organs from an animal sure and uh apparently this ectoplasm would also produce a hand at some point like a hand would just show up out of the ectoplasm it can you imagine being that assistant like really you had to pick pig guts for this so mina claimed that the ectoplasmic hands were the ones ringing the bell box and now that's her her powers were

growing you can now see the physical manifestation of her spirit controls ringing the bells instead of just hearing it you can now see it with your own eyes. That's just beyond me. Here's the grossest part. Uh-oh. The ectoplasm, and this is alleged, but it's also the only sources I found. Uh-oh. The ectoplasm would come from her orifices. What?

Huh? Huh? orifices. Huh? Apparently there was in 1925 one investigator who looked under the table when she thought everyone's eyes were closed. He looked under the table and

manifesting this ectoplasm he saw her go under her dress and pull out strands of animal tissue and then kind of splatter them across the room. So it was coming from her kooka. Emma!

So to speak. At least around it. I don't know if it's coming from her literal body. Inside it. Or if she had it in her underwear. But it was under her dress. My first thought was, I thought you meant at first it was coming out of her orifices. They were her internal organs leaving her body. Actually, yeah. Her spleen came out of her ear. My first thought was, I thought you meant at first, like, it was coming out of her orifices, like, they were her internal organs, like, leaving her body.

Actually, yeah, her spleen came out of her ear. It's pretty weird. I was like, how many did she have that she could just, like, give them up? Her spleen came out of her ear. An investigator in 1925 saw her reach up her dress and pull out some animal tissue and call it ectoplasm. She must have just gone to the butcher and been like, no, I need those, and then stuffed them up her dress.

She was friends with the butcher. There we go. So, meanwhile, Marjorie's supporters went on the offensive, threatening to, like, literally kill Houdini because he was, this is why he wanted his spook spies to carry a gun, because so many people were threatening their work and exposing mediums that the people who were active, staunch spiritualists were like, you are ruining our good name so we're gonna we will hurt you we will at the very least beat the shit out of you if you ever come to our town yeah just and then we'll go back to our crystals exactly and then we'll all hold hands and believe in peace um so

okay so here are some of the other things that actually happened uh sorry i lost my brain apparently so it came out of your ear it's everywhere uh so sign up on youtube so uh houdini or uh mina these are some of the other things that actually happened during some of her uh seances so once there was a live pigeon that just appeared as if conjured out of thin air like it didn't fly in it just showed up i fucking hope so too now i'm curious about what she's what else is up there yeah where is she hiding it what she how's she getting it out yikes um so there's also been like at this point now large flashes of light sometimes there there was a like a their version of a record player, like a phonograph or whatever.

It would start by itself and then stop on its own. Even the table apparently at one point had rose up so high to the ceiling that it started pushing the guests to the ground. And what's interesting. So those are some of the things of her powers growing. And as that's happening and people are still becoming more and more believers in her, they're becoming more and more haters of Houdini. Right. And so now he's being threatened more often. And in 1926, Walter, in a seance, spoke through Mina and said Houdini will be gone by November.

Oh! Oh! So people were like, okay, well, if if it's not real then is it a threat yeah is she like is she plotting something so houdini was one of houdini's big acts was that he apparently had very very very firm muscles where he would challenge people to like literally gut punch him and he would be totally fine because he'd firm up and tense the right way. Damn. So in 1926, the same year that Walter said this, a fan went backstage to one of his shows and without warning him, gut punched him. I guess to catch him off guard to see how powerful he really was.

What the fuck? And because he didn't properly prepare to get punched, Houdini ended up dying. Oh my God. From peritonitis, which basically a ruptured appendix caused it. So he literally just died from getting punched in the stomach too hard. A fan murdered him by accident. Please don't punch me in the gut, by the way, if you ever meet us. We don't have a plan or prepared note for that.

No, no, no. That's not a trick that we do unfortunately literally not a trick we do so some people think that this death was actually a planned murder by spiritualists who didn't like houdini's opposite beliefs like i can sense that his appendix is weak punch him in the stomach when he's not looking that'll get him and in 2007 even his great nephew tried giving his body exhumed for signs of poisoning because they think they might have done that as like uh like to make it look like that was how he died oh interesting but they think that spiritualists were on to him for a while and all planned that by november because mina said so so they like poisoned him and then they were like to cover it up like oh a fan's

gonna punch him and it's gonna look like an accident. Yes, exactly. Wowza. So after his death, Mina has praised his determination in trying to stump her. What a dick. But by this time, she was gaining more skeptics each day because she was getting more powerful and Houdini was no longer there to say this isn't right. Right. So there's actually one investigator that apparently was known to be kind of a sleazeball. His name was Eric Dingwall. He was literally known apparently as like Dirty Ding or something awful.

Wow. He was the one that ended up looking closer at the ectoplasm that was now like showing up on the ceiling and stuff. And he said that it looked like it was hanging from wires. He also said that the hands that were coming out of this ectoplasm looked like they were connected to an umbilical cord to the medium so it was like almost attached to her so when she moved these hands on the ceiling would move ew so everything was like wires it seems um and this guy also wanted to test that nothing was under her clothes so he told her to perform naked so that's why he's doing this man They're always doing it. And so obviously that didn't fly. Okay, good.

So J.B. Ryan, I think I've mentioned him before, but he's considered the father of parapsychology. So big name. He actually saw her and wrote a report that he was not impressed with her. Oh, but Sir Doyle, who's still ever in love with Mina and her powers, he ended up actually buying spots in local newspapers just saying J.B. Ryan is an ass. Oh! Just to, like, defend Mina's credibility. You can do that?

This was actually the first event that caused a rift in spiritualism, by the way. This was the first one where, like, two... For real? I mean, J.B. Ryan, who was super, super well-known at the time arthur conan doyle yeah are now post like literally just dragging each other in newspapers being like he's an asshole it's like twitter but olden times exactly so this actually uh at this point it became spiritualist versus parapsychologists which the difference is spiritualists believe in the power believe in their power comes from spirits like they're almost a channel or a vessel for spirits

parapsychologists believe that the power is your own energy you have your own powers oh so this was the first time that there became a difference in opinion and spiritualists started having one of two different opinions so it was the first real rift after this spiritualist ends up getting control of the american society for psychical research and wrote articles siding with mina and this caused one of the members of the investigating committee from way back when houdini's panel one of them actually was so grossed out by that that he resigned from the american society of psychical research and he founded the boston society of psychical research which is now set which now is saying saying that Mina was a fraud and only writing articles about that.

Wow. So people are losing their minds over. Seriously. Is she real or not? She's probably just fucking living it up. Yeah. Well, up until Mina was soon losing her touch, more and more investigators were finding up like holes in her performance.

And one of one investigator saw her producing the hand, the ectoplasmic hand from her lap, like people had said they had seen before. And it looked like it was made from stitched up animal parts, which means that was hidden under her dress. And she was pulling it out and making it move with wires. And she probably didn't make a new one each time. It was probably the same one, which is just rancid.

Another actually traced another investigator that went to one of her seances because now it's like this huge thing people are trying to go to her shows so she's gaining fame but people are there very with only one intention not even to be amazed anymore but to see if it's real or not wow so now all these investigators are coming and one of them traced back the ectoplasm on the walls to having like fishing line, like super thin, clear line. And it was tied to a knitting needle that was in her teeth. So when she would move her jaw, they would move. That's kind of brilliant, though.

Later, the assistant editor for the American magazine, who was also on the panel, he ended up admitting that he helped fake her of effects in the seances because he was having an affair with her no he was having an affair with her after all the guts in her dress he was still like he was like you're the one for me that's what i like he but so apparently while he was on the panel ways that people were still siding with her and not agreeing with houdini and in ways that even houdini was being stumped apparently the assistant editor on the panel i see was helping what a jerk which mina denies but you know he said she said um so in 1928 the final nail in the coffin for mina was that walter began leaving ectoplasmic fingerprints during seances and the fingerprints did not match mina or her husband's

and they uh their dentist eventually came forward wait what their dentist said that he had taught them a long time ago how to make fingerprints out of uh through soft wax no and just leaving your finger there and then like peeling it off and so he had given one of his own samples to be like look like this is what that looks like. And apparently they kept it. And investigators checked to see if it was like maybe a perfect match for Walter or if it really was Mina. But somehow she had like changed her fingerprints. But eventually they did find out that it was their dentist sample that they had been using as a mold and creating new fingerprints everywhere. It was a strange turn of events

like the dentist is like here's my fingerprint yeah it's like sorry baffling baffling mind boggling as christine says mind boggling so the boston society the ones who were against mina this was like their opportunity to publish the expose of a lifetime and after that mina was officially no longer a legitimate medium and she was to this day she's known as one of the most investigated and controversial mediums of the 20th century which was all sparked by houdini hating her so fucking much and she has been described as quote the most ingenious persistent and fantastic complex of fraud in the history of psychic research i mean fraud for sure and persistent for sure and fantastic wow all the

above so one quick fun fact um someone actually mentioned this on twitter not knowing i had it in my notes but houdini and doyle is actually a show on fox oh yeah that got i think canceled but it is a turn of the 20th century series which follows harry and sir arthur conan doyle as they join forces with scotland yard to investigate unsolved and inexplicable crimes that's pretty fucking cool though i mean i as soon as i found that out i was like well now i gotta watch it after hearing all this it's canceled you said i think it's canceled there's only like one season or two seasons this is our shot lynn if that didn't spark interest in you i don't know what will but anyway that is the story of

mina marjorie crannon the witch of lime street oh the witch right yes that's just her nickname i guess she's just known as the witch wow wow wow wow that was crazy a lot of info but it was very juicy it was juicy i was in for the ride i mean that was like i was too that's a reality show it was one of those um it was like a whodunit and also like i usually not that my notes are ever boring to me but these were notes where i specifically like was excited to do my research i was like oh fuck like this is getting where you're like intrigued by your own story exactly i was like i gotta know what happens oh my gosh so anyway there you go i hope everyone

enjoyed their little journey through houdini's life. I'm like sad it's over. I wish it just ended so abruptly of like, oh, nope, she's not a medium. We've officially figured it out. I'm also sad he died. I mean, yes. I wish Houdini would got to see what happened. I agree. That's what it.

Yeah, that's a little bit sad. Like the day that she was found out officially, he must have been chuckling in the afterlife, except he doesn't believe in the afterlife. well yeah that's right and uh apparently he never came back so never ever and neither did his wife oh okay here we go let me find apparently i still had the wrong notes open no cool fun uh okay Apparently my notes were exactly the same, except the patron of the week. I'll switch those out. Oopsie daisies. This is what happens when we actually prepare in advance.

Yeah. We don't know how to do that. Things go awry very quickly. When you have too much time and you double check, you end up messing up more often. I've noticed. Yeah, there's a lot of things. Me too. Because we're overconfident.

We suddenly get cocky with our own abilities. We're noticed. A lot of things. Me too. Because we're overconfident. We suddenly get cocky with our own abilities. We're used to making like quick decisions and then when we have time to think about it, all of a sudden our opinions change.

We're like, let's get creative. Right, right, right. Oh no. Okay, so the day this comes out is our Patreon live stream was my only relevant note. Oh, yay!

Speaking of Patreon, if you want to watch Lemon Napping and see if Lemon survived and also if you want to join our live stream Q&A where we answer your questions, then sign up at patreon.com slash ATWD podcast. Yes, please. So this is the story of Sharon Kinney. I don't know who that is, but I'm excited. We were on the train from San Diego and Em had to listen to me as I subscribed to Sling.

Oh, is this from Sling? wow christine i know i had to listen to christine talk about sling for a long time and i knew one minute in that she was hustling and bustling and ready to watch everything on there but i still had to hear about it for 30 minutes i literally watched it on the train with you this episode that i ended up covering so you were there for my research and you didn't even know it. I don't even have sling, but the way that you were hyping it up to me on that train, it was like, you found gold.

It was so exciting because we had a trial back in the day and then we kind of canceled the free trial and I never really thought about it again. But lately all the stories I've been covering, I've wanted to watch like the investigation discovery or like travel channel or whatever, you know, channels have episodes and and like I can never watch them or like 60 minutes 2020 um and so sling is basically this is not an ad I mean sling if you'd like us to do an ad for you please let us know um I would love to just not pay for it, but here I am. No, so Sling is great. And it's basically like cable without cable, without having to pay for cable.

Yes, got it. Like you have your regular cable channels, but it's all through, you know, the internets. And it's live TV. But also I watched this episode on Investigation Discovery. I've watched so many now. So I think I've already made it worth my while. Oh, I'm very proud of you. i'm very excited for you thank you i also want so the two episodes i did watch are um a crime to remember okay which i was watching and i was like doing notes and then i

heard a voice and i was like she sounds familiar and i look over and it's karen kilgariff on the episode shut up and the host of generation y was on there i was like how do we do this can i do this someone tell us how i want that me too it was so cool so she was telling the story of this murder i was really cool anyway um and then the other one i watched was killer women okay so let's go oh and i used the lineup wikipedia and murderpedia so this takes place in independence missouri in 1960. It's May 28th, middle of the night. Detective James Browning receives a call about a body found off the side of the road near the town's lover's lane. It's the body of a young woman.

She has four bullet wounds, one on either side of her neck by her collarbone one on the left side of her face and one directly in her abdomen oh my god they can tell that uh the gun was shot at point blank range because there's like gunpowder residue on her dress like on her clothes um and her dress was pulled up above her waist and her underwear had been ripped off near her body at first they didn't know who was but near her body police found a purse with the id with the id of a woman named patricia jones okay who was a local woman in the town oh yikes uh the way the bullets had entered it looked as though as though she had been kneeling when she was shot like they were kind of facing downward so they were like someone shot her execution style yeah it wasn't like she was running or like you know it was like right directly at her

multiple times i have a question that's like very fucked up but i still probably don't have the answer but you can get execution style either uh facing them or behind them as long as they're on their knees because i always thought execution style was just from behind them you know i actually was wondering this because they said execution style and i was like i thought that was like a specific yeah i thought like behind them while they're i mean maybe it's all terrible and you are executing them so i suppose i mean maybe it's just like oh god i wish i had looked it up i really do someone will tell us i know execution i'll tell us gosh the police finding your computer would be the worst thing for us you gotta clear my browser m you gotta clear it um kills at a close range okay okay so it's like they're they're at

your mercy basically and you murdered them okay got it makes sense i mean doesn't make sense but you know logistically by definition i understand i'm glad you asked because I always thought the same thing, that it was from the back. Yeah. Anyway. It's all bad. Well, the more you know, guys. Yay. Welcome to this educational show.

Okay. So they focused on thoroughly processing the crime scene, and in an attempt to find the murder weapon, they just, this is a fun fact, they deployed a troop of Boy Scouts to search for the gun. Really using them for real life experiences. Yeah. Really teaching them. Right?

Holy shit. We're not going to learn how to like help an old lady cross the street this week. We're going to solve a fucking murder. Nowadays they're probably not even allowed to talk to strangers. And now it's like. Right. They probably just like. We just like made rice cakes and shit like that in Girl Scouts. can you imagine though being a member of that boy scout troop and going to other

boy scout troops one day and being like do you know what my troop had to do look at this badge i got for finding a gun in the woods truly like how do you for that you first of all you deserve a badge if not anything else and make a badge just for that you deserve your eagle scout badge correct immediately absolutely you guys skip all the levels yeah you're just for that you deserve your eagle scout badge correct immediately absolutely you guys skip all the levels yeah you're just you win you win you win you found the gun yeah um yeah so i just thought that was wild i was like wow the 60s were a different time absolutely also how small must that town have been where they literally needed the help of 10 year old boys just that they needed like a force of people.

It's all we can. It's all we've got. Let's go. Don't send the women. Send the small children. Right. Also, as a Girl Scout, I would have been so jealous. Oh, yeah.

I mean, fair. Especially if you're like one of the brownies or something like that. Like you have to literally be at home and learn how to like macrame. Right. You're making flower crowns. And your brother gets to go solve crime. Seriously. It's not fair.

A real dichotomy. He's literally at the scene of a murder like a dead body and you're making fucking rice cakes it's the only example i can think of um anyway so the boy scouts uh did not find the gun so no one got their badge but they did find a bullet the police did not the boy scouts oh i was like okay i know nice try uh they did find a bullet that had lodged in the ground after having shot through her abdomen so they collected that the other ones were gone um and it was a bullet from a 22 caliber pistol so the man who discovered the body and had originally called police was named john boldies and he claimed he

had been driving out there and he had to pee. So he wandered into the grass and found her body. Police immediately immediately knew something was wrong with him. They kind of described him as like not the sharpest tool at making a good story sound legitimate. OK, got it. So they were like, something's going on here. It was also pitch black middle of the night. And he she was like really far into the tall grass and they're like he wouldn't have wandered all the way out there got it and you can't see her from the side of the road so

they were it was fishy um so around 5 a.m they bring in patricia's husband so the victim's husband walter you must be kidding me i don't it feels like every story is fake now is this a sign i don't know like we can't name our grandchildren walter or our children walter we can't name anyone we know walter this is bananas i swear to god this is like the fifth walter i really walter here being like you said you never hear from me here he's like i'll insert myself in every story don't worry oh my god that's really weird yeah i hate that maybe it's a sign i like how you said these stories sound made up and like the only name we can invent is walter like truly we can't even make also but to a point where if someone came up to us and was like what was the name of

this person and if i had to make something up i'm just gonna naturally now say walter because i just hear it all the fucking time. Dude, odds are you'd be right, probably. True. Actually, wait a minute. Statistically. Statistically speaking. Out of the five stories we've covered recently, I feel like there's at least 10,000 Walters.

Oh, my God. It's crazy. Okay. So around 5 a.m., they bring Walter in, Patricia's husband. He's only 23 years old. They're a really young couple. um patricia's husband he's only 23 years old they're really young couple he's an ex-marine turned car salesman and he is like completely shook by this news sure um he claims at first he didn't even realize she'd been missing because they had gotten into a huge fight two nights

before and he thought good luck no terrible terrible good luck to the police really not um and he thought she was angry and like didn't come home, like stayed with a friend or family member because they got into this huge fight and was off to cool down somewhere. So the next day when she didn't show up during the day, he was like, OK, I'm calling the police. Sure. With a little pressing, though, he admits the reason for their fight is that he was having an affair. Not a good look. Also not a good look also not a good look walter man come on he explains that two months earlier he had sold a thunderbird because he's a car salesman to a woman who came to his dealership um and had recently come into some money

and the two uh fell for each other and started dating in secret you had me a thunderbird yeah we could just be greased lightning together i mean actually though hard to turn that life down hard but he tells detectives that by this point oh fuck who was that is that a person walter it's blaze it's blaze hell am i love him tell him i love him sorry blaze is bringing geo to boarding and asked if i wanted to say goodbye which makes me sad precious but i'm not gonna say goodbye because i have to do this for for all of you look at this yay sacrificing just kidding i'll see him in like two days okay so so they had started dating i really that really frightened me i thought walter actually

had shown up the door opened so quietly and so slowly i was like absolutely i'm hallucinating right and then an arm came that tired literally the hand like from the ectoplasm yeah it actually came right from mina's underwear undercarriage yes gross undercarriage yeah i'm gonna bring that back that yeah why not the one thing i will never bring back and if you say this goddamn word stop saying it panties i will lose my god you said it you i literally put underwear in here for that very reason thank god now here you are saying it is revolting okay moving on okay so uh thanks for saying that a lot okay so they'd started dating but he says the relationship is completely over at this point uh he says basically she had kind of gone off the deep end

he went to her place one night and she said she's in love with him and that he needed to leave his wife and kids for her and start a family with her uh but when he refused to leave his family she told him she was pregnant with his child and that he had to leave yikes leave his family wow immediately pregnant with his child yeah so he didn't believe her he thought this was just like a last minute last-ditch effort to get him to leave his wife um so he broke up with her he's like this is too much for me and he went home but at this point his wife pat had figured out what was up they got into a huge fight and the next day when he got home from work, she wasn't there. And so he assumed she was still angry at him.

Sure. So he called the people that she carpooled with every day. And they gave him a surprising bit of information. They said Pat was at work that day when she received a call from a mysterious woman who said, my sister is having an affair with your husband. Oh. This mystery woman asked patricia to meet her after work and the car she was in the carpool and um they met this car at like an

intersection or something and she's like i have to go meet this person and they're like don't do that we don't know who that is you don't know who that is right and she's like no i want to know about this affair yeah i'm trying to think if someone randomly called me at work and I didn't know them at all. And they just said, meet me after I have something to tell you. I'd be like, you're going to murder me. Yeah. You meet me. How about that?

Exactly. You called me. Yeah. So unfortunately, reluctantly, they let her out of the car and she got into the car and drove off with the mystery woman. At this point, Walter is like like fuck that mystery woman is my girlfriend god damn it oh no so uh he's fucking furious he goes over to her place that night to confront her um and at this point i'm trying to see if i'm supposed to tell you yet what her name is it's her name christine schieffer yes surprise okay no not yet sorry

just wait a minute okay i want to tell the story in like a mysterious way obviously i'm ruining that with the effect of that i'm so sorry i think we both started this podcast with hopes that we would have the illusion of mystere and now and the allure and now we're just like uh you're just like burping i forgot my notes saying panties okay so she so okay blah blah blah so he's like fuck i know this person has to be my girlfriend or ex-girlfriend because like who else would be calling his wife and clearly he said she had kind of gone off the deep end with this trying to desperately get him to leave his family he's like god damn it that was her i bet so he's furious he goes over to her place that night to confront her she admits to walter that she did

indeed tell patricia about the affair because she quote felt bad for her okay felt sorry for her but said she that uh pat patricia didn't seem overly upset and it probably wasn't a big deal. OK. Sure. That seems likely. That checks out. She said Pat probably had just gone to cool off at a motel. So she's like, chill.

I'm sure she's just like with a friend or at a motel to cool off. But the next day when police call, call him in and say your wife was found dead. He's more sure than ever that his lovely girlfriend had something to do with it police ask walter what is your girlfriend's full name he tells him her name is sharon kinney okay and there it is now you got it sharon kinney got it so she is the bad one not the dead one bad guy got it patricia's the good guy yep yep yep and detective browning's blood runs cold. He fucking storms out of the room.

And the other detective's like, dude, what's up? And he's like, you remember two months ago, he had questioned a woman named Sharon Kinney after her husband had mysteriously died in his bed. And this is a small ass town. Oh, no. He's like, we just investigated her husband's death. And it's the same fucking lady. And she just came into money to buy that Thunderbird. Exactly.

Exactly. Interesting. Interesting, huh? So Sharon is only 20 years old. Beautiful, known in town as like a beauty. She had called. This is what happened to her husband. So it's two months earlier.

She called police. She to her husband. So it's two months earlier. Um, she called police. She found her husband dead. She told police she was in the bathroom getting ready for supper at church when she heard her two-year-old daughter, Catherine, walk up to her husband as he was napping on the bed. She said she heard Catherine ask, daddy, how does this thing work? And then a gunshot fired. And they came and James Kin kinney her husband had been

shot in the back of the head while sleeping in his bed blood everywhere and they were able to confirm that like there wasn't gun residue on her child or anything so that's a very specific question that i have a very specific answer okay got it shockingly i feel like the more i listen to the to you talk the more i become an expert it's amazing how like usually i get really nervous because i'm like i probably don't have the answer just like the execution style thing but finally i have an answer for you um so normally in this scenario oh it's literally the next bullet okay thank you for asking em i feel on top of it normally in this scenario police would issue they did these

like paraffin wax tests where they would put your hand in like hot wax and then like test for gunpowder residue. But Sharon and little Catherine were so distraught they didn't want to subject them to hot wax. So neither of them got tested. OK, well, that was just sloppy police work. Correct. And they regretted it from then on. The police were like, that was the dumbest thing we ever did. Yes.

The wildest thing, too, is like they gave. they gave so they were like well it's still fishy like how can a two-year-old hold this gun so they literally gave her this place is wild with the with the boy scouts and the little girl they gave her a gun and she's two years old they ever obviously unloaded and asked her to pick it up and her dad apparently let her play with guns all the time so this was like not out of the ordinary what delivering okay i'm sorry you let you play you let the baby play two year old okay two years old okay your your skull is still soft like don't give you don't give her a gun if you can't speak full sentences a hundred percent of the time and that was part of the temper tantrum seriously oh my god that was part of the problem they couldn't interview her because she's so little she barely spoke and so then they gave her a gun what family is this well well pretty fucked up

well got it so the she picks up the little girl's able to pick up the gun and pull the trigger so they were like well like but also has no concept of death or the criminal justice system sure goodbye goodbye so they can't but at this point they're like damn it like we were gonna hopefully disprove like she can't even pick up a gun it couldn't have been her but now they're like well she can pick it up so got it it's hard to disprove that um theory so he'd been shot in the back of the head when they got there they picked up the weapon and it happened to be a 22 caliber pistol what are the odds remember the bullet was 22 uh-huh oh you're a lucky number i heard it that's how i remembered actually i should have known um so clearly they didn't do this paraffin wax thing

uh but it's stuck in sergeant browning's mind because he's like i knew something was fishy about that lady and now she's back in another fucking murder story within two months. And he also knew Sharon had gotten in today's money, $230,000 in life insurance. So clearly, like you said, she bought herself a nice new Thunderbird and a new boyfriend. Yes, she did. So he knew something was up. But when he when they tested the little girl, they were like, well, I guess guess we're just gonna rule this an accident because we didn't do the test and the girl can pick up a gun and there's no way to prove otherwise so now two months later which is just so

fucked up to blame your daughter whatever so now two months later after her husband is shot in the head with a 22 pistol the wife of the man she's sleeping with also happens to be shot with the same weapon um so they go back to be shot with the same weapon. So they go back to that first guy, the not the sharpest tool in the shed. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember him. So he, John Boldiz, he had found the body. He's clearly lying about something. So they were like, we need to figure out what is up with this dude.

So they put a little pressure on him. And finally, he admits he wasn't alone when he found the body. He was with his girlfriend and she spotted the body. Was her name Sharon? It was. Oh, no. They said, who's your girlfriend? He said, her name's Sharon Kinney.

And there it is. Wow. So she first of all, she she never rests. Quite some golf and quite a lot of boyfriends quite a lot she is juggling a lot and she has no problem throwing all of their exes and partners into each other's lives absolutely not not even a little bit yeah so uh basically what happened he says is that they were out there they were making it out because it was lover's lane and she said oh weird i see something i need you to go check it and she couldn't have seen it from the car but she's like i see something right and so he went and found the body quote unquote

and then she told him you can't tell police i was the last one to be with her and they're gonna think i had something to do with it oh no so he basically she went home and he said no i was by myself got it she tricked him into saying it was him who found the body so got it um anyway so now they're like god damn it we gotta bring sharon back in here so they finally bring her in and she claims she's never heard of patricia jones and then they bring up walter jones her lover she says oh that's the guy who sold me my thunderbird and police are like we know you're sleeping with him and he she's finally like yeah okay um and they say oh well he says that uh he broke it off because you were in love with him and he she's finally like yeah okay um and they say oh well he says that uh he broke it off because you were in love with him and she freaks out she's like he's a liar he was in

love with me and like as if that's what matters right now right this is not the time this is literally not the time right so uh they were like hey by the way uh people saw patricia getting into your car on the day of the murder so can you explain yourself please and she's like i just felt really sorry for patricia so i wanted to finally admit that like i was sleeping with her husband and they were like why did you say it was her your sister and she's like i didn't want her to be mad at me right i wanted her to be mad at her husband uh-huh she wanted her to break up with the husband. Sure. Right. Tale as old as time. Tale as old as time.

Yes. She says, you know, we just drove around a little bit and then I dropped her off a couple blocks before her house. When he says, Sharon, you were the last one seen with her and you found the body, that's one hell of a fucking coincidence. She literally goes, yeah, it is one hell of a coincidence. This is not the is one hell of a coincidence this is not the time or place for that this is not the time or place she is just not giving is ballsy i know she just like doesn't give a shit that's exactly right what are you gonna do about it yes what what a nice observation you've made detective um so at this point detective browning is pissed he's like i need to pin this on her i i fucked up the first murder by not getting her tested for gunpowder i need something i need to pin this on

her because she did it but unfortunately things um don't go great for doctor for detective browning um sharon gets a lucky break when it turns out the coroner's department screwed up the autopsy and did zero tests on the body before burying her. So nothing, nothing there that he could use against her. Right. Then they go ahead and search Sharon's house and they find a box for a 22 caliber pistol. But the gun itself isn't there. And the gun had actually been purchased two weeks before Patricia's murder. Okay.

And she explains, oh, I forgot to tell you about it. That's how she explained why she never brought it up she just forgot and they're like well where is it and she says oh it i lost it on vacation what okay i mean to be fair she's they're letting their two-year-old play with guns i mean at this rate that's not totally gun crazy there's like oh i'll just bring it on vacation oh oh shucks i forgot it i forgot in bermuda again it's classic me it was actually katherine the two-year-old left it by the pool by the kiddie she's so silly like that she's so silly with her gun so uh yeah she says i lost it a few weeks ago they interrogated her

for 13 hours and she admitted nothing like they just couldn't break her steel trap honestly and she was so abrasive and smug that police took a bold step bold perhaps not the smartest and despite not having any direct evidence they risk it and decide to arrest her that day oh so at this point the story blows up she's obviously front page news all over town um this you know independence missouri is not a huge place um it turns out she actually was pregnant oh and she claimed it belonged to her husband however the child was born 10 months after her husband had been shot in the head so riddle me that riddle me that um nevertheless she absolutely adored being the center of attention

which is not shocking at all to me nope um she dressed and acted like a movie star like she felt like she had adoring fans because all the reporters wanted to talk to her like just took it as like i'm famous now okay and people who knew her actually said like growing up and in high school she just like dreamed of being a movie star and basically her whole goal in life was for a man to like whisk her away to hollywood or to like a bigger city and she was like stuck in Independence Missouri and um so this is finally she's like I have a moment yeah my limelight basically so um they have two murders they're like okay we gotta pin one of these on her yeah yeah so they start

with Patricia's murder um now this is wild this lady is the luckiest person in the entire universe except that she's dead except no noelle who's dead patricia oh not patricia is the least lucky person i'm saying sharon you said patricia and then you were like this person's the luckiest person i was like she's she's murdered how great i can i could debate that oh for god's sake no sorry they started with patricia's murder sorry sharon is the luckiest lady on the planet. I hear you. Crazy enough, the prosecution was able to find the man who owned the gun before Patricia bought it. Wow.

And they're like, do you have any bullets left? Because we can match those bullets to the one we found that had gone through Patricia's stomach. And he's like, I don't have any here, but I had shot my gun into a tree stump near the airport. So they're like, OK, we we're gonna go get that bullet so they literally go find this tree stump and they literally found a tree stump yeah well there's seven bullets in it so apparently it was used i guess got it it's target practice i don't know okay but they it had multiple bullets in it so they chainsaw it but they chainsawed the bullet And so it was not admissible in court as evidence. It was the same bullet, but it really is the luckiest thing that happened to her. Just chainsawed it right in half.

Oh, my God. They were like, well, fuck, it is the same bullet, but we can't use it in court. So that really blows. Oopsies. So Sharon had gotten another lucky break and the jury did not find enough evidence to be like, she for sure did it. So they found her not guilty. One juror even asked her. Sorry, you said she for sure.

And I was like, she for sure. Oh, I didn't even hear it. She for sure. She for sure. Sorry. That's why I went, ah, instead of, oh. Well, because I'm about to say something funny so i was like how did how did you know i'm actually a psychic my name's mina crandon fuck no wonder

you're always like spewing guts everywhere that's exactly it yeah damn um say hi to walter for me which one that's true um so sharon like was not guilty and one juror even asked for her autograph after the verdict was read. Yikes. I know. So, like, she really is living it up at this point. Detective Browning does not want to give up, though. He is like, OK, fine.

We messed up on this one. How about the murder of her husband? We'll get her on that one. So he talks to John Boldy's, the guy, her boyfriend, the guy who found the body. Uh-huh. And he admits that sharon had actually asked him to kill her husband for a thousand dollars oh but then on the stand prosecution asks um asks him the question and he says no she was just joking she's just fibbing

yeah she's joshing isn't she she's just joshing around joshing if you don't know that you don't even know her you clearly crazy like don't know sharon at all she's just a hoot she's being a silly goose you know such a silly goose such silly goes sharon the silly goose that's what they say um so just joking around just joshing so uh yeah thousand dollars to kill to kill him but then on the stand unfortunately he changed he flip-flopped and said nope she was joking so prosecution was pissed um so instead the sergeant browning convinces john to drive sharon around in his car this is the wildest shit so john so sergeant browning's like so desperate it sounds like houdini like he's literally at this point so desperate that he's like fucking up because he's just trying bent episode he's he's trying so he's

in her trunk he hides in her trunk with a recorder and asks john to drive her around and convince her to admit to the murder and he's just in the back like recording it it's what they did a reenactment in one of the episodes i bet it looks stupid no it's hysterical because he's just like hitting his head. Like clearly they make him out to be kind of a bumbling buffoon buffoon because like he's just trying everything and nothing going his way. And then he's just in the trunk for like hours and they're in the front talking about like, what's your favorite type of ice cream? Oh, my God. It's just the saddest thing. He's just like flying around.

He's like, please. So, yeah yeah so it doesn't work every time she's like he tries to bring up the thousand dollars like hey did you actually mean that when you said like you'd give me a thousand dollars right or were you josh and were you just being a silly goose you never know with sharon he every time the topic goes near she literally just changes the subject to something completely random, like ice cream or it sounds like our fucking podcast. Hold on. Or a ghost or anything. Trying to talk about murder, but instead we talk about everything else. Yeah.

So she is not that stupid and she cannot. She probably can tell John is up to something because he's also not good at lying. And so she admits absolutely nothing. But the case does go to trial. And ultimately, Sharon actually is found guilty of the murder of her husband. Oh, wow. She is sentenced to life in prison. But because she's the luckiest person in the fucking world, the appeals court overturns it after only 18 months.

And she's out of there. Yay. You must be kidding me are you being a silly goose wait a minute surprise i'm silly oh man that's what they call me that's my superlative silliest the silliest goose the silliest christine she for sure in all the land sounds like a nursery rhyme yes it sounds like a really ass backwards nursery rhyme. Well, it's German, so yeah. Oh, yeah. You actually also have like scissors for eyes and shit.

And there's pig guts coming out of me. Yeah, actually. The silly goose with pig guts and scissor eyes. There's like a needle in my mouth and I'm pulling some hands. Listen. It's really confusing. It sounds right. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, cautionary tale. Read it to your children. Or don't. Or don't. Throw it away. Burn burn it in a fire launch it into outer space okay um so the next trial so they they were like okay we're gonna do this trial over again because it was appealed the next trial lasted for years and it ended in a mistrial then the third trial ended in a hung jury then so she literally is getting trial after trial. And the first one she's convicted but gets out of jail.

And then the next two are either mistrials. So she just is like not getting freaking caught for this. So on the morning of September 21st, 1964, Sergeant Browning is just in his office. He opens the newspaper and he sees the headline, Sharon Kinney arrested for murder in mexico and he's like wait what and this is like his described it like as his white whale kind of like uh what what's her name sorry mina mina mina mina um i thought you were gonna say something about whale sounds god don't they were waiting for it there it is oh my god that one you're not allowed to dm me about okay uh it was like her it was like his white whale like he could not this is a case where he's like i need to pin this on her she's so smug and like she's just like she's slithering out every time exactly so um it turns out she had so he's like thrilled

because he's like holy shit someone got her for something so it turns out she had gone down to mexico with a boyfriend she met an american tourist down there and uh who's a mexican national she took him back to her hotel room and uh shot him she told police he was trying to rape her and she was defending herself or yeah defending herself um but he had been shot square in the back from like a distance like across the room so they were like so he wasn't on you or near you yeah so regardless so she really it sounds like she just has no rhyme or reason to why she's murdering men she just feels like it yeah well all his money was in her bag so clearly she was just trying to rob him but that's kind of an extreme move yeah run like grab the bag and run right

there are easier ways to rob someone i would think right also don't rob someone when you're in the middle of many trials or just got just got cleared right moving to a new country doesn't change it's like she wants to get caught so bad i know i think she just thinks she's invincible which she kind of is at this point yeah i mean she's not wrong for the yeah so uh it didn't make a lot of sense to police that like she was self-defense it was self-defense because he was shot square in the back like i said um it also doesn't help that a hotel employee who heard the gunshot came in and she shot him too for no apparent reason she was just like oh you'll do too and he survived thankfully but like

wow but like he's like she just fucking shot me like i just i was like is everything okay and she shot me in the arm so now that makes me feel bad for anyone who's in customer service like how are we doing here honest to god like can you imagine reading that one star review on my show like truly oh well someone shot me right in the it didn't feel good and it fucking sucked it felt bad i had to only ask i just asked a nice question i even had to finish my shift just bleeding out it's awful okay so um she's like i was just here on vacation but when they looked in her bag they found 300 rounds of ammunition a fake id and several guns including a 22 caliber pistol so clearly she was trying to book it and run away book it with the

right equipment too but also not with the right brain wrong moves right yeah for her to be like oh here's all my ammunition and money also i'm gonna kill two more people on my way out of being sneaky like nobody even knew she was there she literally could have she literally could have just even locked the door behind her and stayed there by herself and continued on with her life. He wouldn't have known she's down there. So Mexican authorities fired the gun several times to send so that they finally had like samples to match. So they fired her gun, matched the bullets to the one that was in Patricia's abdomen, and they were an exact match. So this literally proves that her gun killed Patricia.

Wow. All that, though, for one piece of proof for one little bullet when that was in the mail can you imagine he's like oh god you gotta ensure that you gotta yeah hand deliver that shit to me and deliver oh my god so based on the physical evidence um sharon had driven so they're like building this story now sharon had driven patricia out to the lover's lane with the guise of being like, my sister slept with your husband. I want to tell you about it. Walked her into the grass, probably with a gun. Got her down on her knees. Possibly told her she was pregnant.

She was pregnant, so nobody knows if she told her that or not. Right, right, right. My guess is she's pretty cruel, so perhaps. And then pulled the trigger not only once not twice but four times and as she's laying down on the ground the final shot was directly into her abdomen um as she's already on the ground um then she stages the crime scene as a sexual assault which is why she pulled her skirt up and threw her underwear um and then she apparently went to a birthday party talk about a sociopath i mean can you imagine now i'm wondering everyone who's come to my birthday parties like where were you a second ago we should start like having people what were

you doing an hour ago sign a waiver most of my friends be like eating tacos i don't what do you like facetiming you um so but jumbled jumbled deputyy god damn jumbled jeopardy as i always say jesus christ and we'll continue to do so and now i can't escape it oops double jeopardy she can't be retried for patricia's murder she's already been acquitted for it right because they jumped the gun literally too early really is the luckiest woman in the world. I know. So she's tried in Mexico for the murder of the man in the hotel room. And she is convicted. She gets 13 years at a prison in Mexico where she quickly develops a nickname, La Pistolera, or the Woman Gunslinger. Wow.

That was Karen Kilgourif said that on the show. And I was like, yeah, Woman Gunslinger. So. Cool name for a shitty person. Yeah, right. why does she get a what's my nickname i don't know probably lemon's best friend i'll take it saddest woman alive just as badass featuring skylar somebody tweeted like oh i have a spider in my house too what should i name it and i just said m junior oh i did see that i saw that on the way here i was

like you got some goddamn nerve, Christine. I know. I didn't tag you in it for a reason. I saw that. Yeah. I was hoping you'd find it. It felt good. Good.

But of course, the story does not end there. So it had been five years since the murder. She's finally in jail in Mexico. Four years later, Detective Browning is at his office back in Missouri when he hears some breaking news on the radio. Sharon Kinney has escaped from prison. Damn it. On December 7th, 1969, so now it's nine years since the murder, Sharon Kinney had not shown up for daily roll call in prison.

And by the next morning, it was clear she had escaped. There had been a movie night for prisoners and and the families the night before and during a blackout that night it's believed she had either she had escaped during the blackout but they didn't know if she'd either bribed the guards or perhaps convinced her boyfriend she had a boyfriend to help aid in her escape so somebody must have helped her um whether it was she had conned somebody or you know right talked somebody into helping her escape one theory actually which is pretty wild and i don't know if this is any has any weight but um one theory claims that the family of the man she killed in the hotel room broke her out of prison

for the pleasure of killing her themselves what but that was only juicy i know i was like this dramatic but that was only in one source so I didn't that nothing else confirmed that. To be clear. But the number of things that went right for her just by chance is bananas. So I'll list them here in case we forgot the botched autopsy, the bullet getting sawed in half by a chainsaw, which would have just like that. Like that would have helped. Exactly. Would have gotten her in jail because they confirmed it was her gun.

Not performing the wax test on her and her daughter because she convinced them it was too. Her daughter is too fragile. Her daughter being able to pick up the gun. She probably didn't even know whether the girl could do it. Right. The appeal going through on her first conviction and then escaping. So she's just had quite a time getting out of three murders. conviction and then escaping so she's just had uh quite a time getting out of three murders um despite extensive manhunts after her escape her whereabouts remain unknown to this day but

she is believed to be alive wow wow and potentially killing people yeah who knows it sounds like she really was just doing it for fun like within a within like no not a year but a couple years yeah just murdered i can't imagine she just stopped. Yeah, two in two months. And also the one with the husband. I never, like, the one with the wife, there was the motive of, like, I want to be with your husband. But, like, the husband, she just shot him in the head? Just shot him for the money?

So, like, she, like, was in Mexico and just, like, shot. Right, right. Like, she's clearly doing it very haphazardly. So she can't possibly have just stopped she's clearly like she has a compulsion yeah yeah exactly she got a taste for it clearly enjoyed it can't stop so that's great news for the world great according to the lineup kenny's warrant for the murder of her husband james issued in 1964 is still active to this day, making it the longest outstanding arrest warrant in the Kansas City area's history. Wow.

And one of the longest outstanding felony warrants in U.S. history. Wow. Bonanza. That's not the right word. Bo- Bananas. Bananas. It's a bananas bonanza.

I think I'm trying to come up with new words because we say bananas so often, but that's okay. Lemons. It's fucking lemons. We say lemon a lot too uh detective browning this is sad retired from the police force in 1969 the same year sharon kinney escaped from prison he just gave up yeah she really just did him in it's really sad yikes although she's never been found most people firmly believe she's still alive and will probably never be caught at this rate no one's really looking for her anymore um karen kilgariff actually ended the a crime to remember episode with a quote that i loved so i'm gonna end the story on that same

quote she says i think everybody would want the luck of sharon kinney but most of us have the luck of detective browning yeah it doesn't matter how good you are it doesn't matter how right you are life is stupid and some people get away with murder and that's the end of the story of sharon kinney that's bananas and lemons and fruit bonanza it's bananas bonanza so that's that yikes yeah thank you you're welcome i loved it thank you sling for letting me watch so much more tv now because that's clearly what i if you want to join christine on her sling adventure her sling quest yeah then uh go join sling it's fun um yeah so that's that i guess great come see us live we're come see us live we're doing something completely different from this completely yeah we won't bum you the fuck out.

If anything will hype you up and you're going to leave, it's going to be great. There's still alcohol, so don't worry. Oh, yeah. That stays the same. Yes. The drinking is still there. We are called and that's why we drink. And that's it.

So and that's why we drink.