And That's Why We Drink - E160 Parry Hotter and a Choose Your Own Sad-venture

Episode Date: February 23, 2020

It's not you, it's not me, this week it's not even Houdini... it's the Minnesota Iceman! Em brings us the storied past of a cryptid who's rumored to have ties to Jimmy Stewart. Then Christine takes on the wild story of the notorious Dorothea Puente in honor of our recent Sacramento trip. And don't worry, we're on Tik Tok now and we have a lot of ideas to trademark... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Get an extra 30% off your first ThredUp order at thredUP.com/drinkGet 10% off your first three months of Ritual when you go to ritual.com/ATWWDExplore your creativity at Skillshare.com/DRINK2 and get 2 free months of Premium Membership!To match with your perfect therapist, go to Talkspace.com or download the app. Make sure to use the code DRINK to get $100 off your first month!

welcome to and that's how you drink studios what if we just did it just sat here silently for a little bit that sounds good i feel like we do that anyway by accident uh hello it is 3 30 we got here at 11 30 um we ended up eating a lot of pasta we literally sat there and went well we should probably for the sake of this show we should feed ourselves first ordered a bunch of pasta we and also with the last few uh weeks we've been like really good about like getting things done so quickly usually we're done by now and now we're just beginning we we got cocky and thought oh look how good we are at time management i had a feeling last night i was like tomorrow's gonna be a long day you literally planned for it um also i'm i didn't wash my hair so i'm wearing

this hat but it keeps like how do you do it oh i guess yours is to the side you just gotta learn you gotta learn the ropes i'm smacking my hat too green into the microphone uh How are you? What have you been doing? Oh, man. I'm great. I went to visit my family in Cincinnati, looked at some spaceships. I feel really bad because somebody, this lovely young woman recognized me at the museum and my sister was making, like,

laughing because I don't think she's ever seen me recognized anywhere. And I feel like I looked kind of dear in the headlights and all i said was i have to go tell my mom and then i walked away and so i if to you i didn't even ask what your name was and i'm so sorry and uh hello to you and thank you for all the wonderful work you do at the cincinnati museum center the weirdest way that i've been recognized so far it wasn't that i was recognized in a weird way but the weirdest experience was

that i was being recognized in front of deirdre oh and it was weird to see my friends see me being recognized that happened with renee and my best like you i know my best friends thinking like why on earth do you give a shit about this person but i guess like not to you no like saying it to them about me right like why would you possibly i don't get it the worst was when this happened when on my birthday weekend when renee was visiting me and renee ordered tequila shots at like 10 in the morning and we were like just having the time of our lives and two hours later we asked our server for the check and she's like by the way are you christine sheever and i was like no you can't do this three hours after watching me take tequila shots at 10

in the morning um so anyway hello to you too uh thank you uh how are you doing em i'm fine i'm sleepy because we just ate a lot of carbs i truly though i got this nice little fancy soda we now uh are trying to uh be hip with the youth we both got tiktok we're not doing anything with it to be clear we're not like staring at it and laughing acting i do they act do they perform we're not trying anything with it to be clear. We're not like staring at it and laughing. Acting. Do they act? Do they perform? We're not trying to be TikTok stars. They dance a lot. I definitely don't do that. We just are now involved in it and understand why other people are obsessed. We get the teens now suddenly. So yeah, Em sent me a TikTok yesterday and I thought this is the final straw. I'm going to download this thing. And I was with my sister all week

and she just was showing me things that were so nonsensical. I kind of get half of them now. It's fun though, yeah. I feel like I'm back in the loop. We're youthful once again. Finally. Finally.

But yeah, that's all that's going on with me. I probably have a patron of the week so you say something while I find that. Hmm. Allison and I went to an escape room and it was uh harry potter themed and it's fun it was fun because they didn't have any of the license to like any of the trademarks or copyright to say anything about harry potter so everything was like one letter off so it was perry hotter themed yeah it was like you could be like you

were in gaffandor and and like god and uh slitheris and like oh everything was kind of off like snape was the nape and what the hell it was like knock off harry potter escape room and we did it by ourselves and we actually won i was like we beat it i was surprised oh i'm so i'm not surprised why are you surprised i'm surprised because she was the king of escape rooms. She's not. Oh, Allison. Allison was my guinea pig for, uh, to, before I showed Christine her escape room that I made. The lemon escape room.

Allison did not even come close to winning on time. So I thought, oh boy, I'm going to have to carry the, carry this, uh, this team here. But she actually probably was carrying me. We did a good job. Teamwork. Uh, sorry. Found the patron of the week. It's two people,. Teamwork. Sorry, found the patron of the week. It's two people, Kara and Richard.

Oh. Thank you, Kara and Richard. A little duo there. A little duo. Thank you so much for your support. Yeah. Glad to have you. Glad to have a duo.

You should probably make separate accounts and pay us each separately. You could do it. That's a TikTok thing, I've heard. Oh, yeah. I did see that hashtag on there that would uh double our income on uh your behalf yes i'm just kidding don't do that oh thank you karen richard i appreciate it but do it um so that so i don't know what else to say my toes are a little cold it's a little chilly here yeah it's pretty chilly in february

in los angeles about 65 degrees out can you believe it's freaking cold freezing my toes need socks and that's that's how cold it's gotten recently um okay so my story i have wanted to do for a while oh okay um i'm actually glad in hindsight that i didn't do it um back I planned on it, which was a few months ago. I was kind of overwhelmed with the information on it and that there's a lot of not necessarily twists and turns, but the story got changed a lot over time. And so it was kind of hard to keep up on where everything actually fit into the story. But now that you have TikTok, you can really keep up. actually fit into the story but now that you have tiktok you can really keep up honestly now i'm like i'm scared that i found something else i'm addicted to on the social media in the social media field because uh i got tiktok maybe three days ago and i don't think i've done anything else

truly em and i sat here we were like we should probably record for a bit before our food gets here and then tiktok half hour of full silence punctuated by like truly i got into it because rj my roommate got into tiktok and then he told me later but he was like oh i did tiktok and then he was like three hours later i had to like get rid of tiktok because i was so consumed it will suck you right in i tell you what the worst part is the algorithm it figures out what you like so the videos get better so you become more addicted to it it's a nightmare tried to show me some anatomy crap and i was like don't show me the inside of my muscles i'm gonna throw up oh i'm sorry the mail is here please uh is it the smell of cardboard in taxes if it were the smell of cardboard in my home would be just a haven of dog anger no uh so what i learned fun fact everyone is that uh dogs they

if they learn to bark when there is an intruder coming at their space like say a mail carrier um it's reinforced every time because this person walks up to the house and leaves and they're barking and so they learn like oh if i bark really loudly this person will walk away just like a delivery person etc and so um i was really good the first year and a half with geo of like avoiding that scenario but now that we live somewhere with windows right to the front of the house lost cause man i'm sorry for you so sorry sorry for you people with your ears um really sorry for eva for having to edit out the worst parts of it oopsie um okay so back to you back to me back to reality so um oh there goes gravity mom's speaking of gravity did you try

the broom thing yesterday no i didn't try it yet i don't know where my broom is i have a dice and does that work yeah it definitely balances upright it actually does and i hurt myself a lot with it well before people freak out apparently it's like a it's a like it's not real a meme yeah it comes it shows up like every couple years like people forget about it just long enough for you to be able to do it again and pretend it's this new thing so before people tweet me a million times saying it's fake wait what's fake oh they think it's like a ghost or something no it's that um nasa they say that nasa says this is the only day where the gravity wait what oh i did not know about that part i just think people were just balancing their bones i did and i thought how stupid is this there was a reason for it but

apparently it's like it's a thing that's going to happen in another couple years and people are going to forget that we did it but it's not a thing apparently it's not a thing i'm being told brooms just do that i think so and we just never try because every time you have a broom you just lean it against the wall this is the weirdest thing okay i thought it was just everyone's like cool broom stand up i was like yeah okay no it's supposed to be like nasa announced something but anytime you i looked it up yesterday it was like oh the broom challenge is back and it's like okay well it sounds like that's why i thought it was just people standing brooms up i was like the broom challenge is back and it's like okay well it sounds like it's that's why i thought it was just people standing brooms up i was like the broom challenge sounds super dumb no apparently

it's it's a thing that happens every now and then so all right um remember that cool roomba ouija board meme don't if you're guys if you're listening please stop sending us that picture we've seen nobody sends it anymore and what are you talking about i still get sent all the time people lose their minds because they get so angry and i'm like dude this person doesn't know what happened they don't know the the big chaos of 2018 or 2019 where our facebook group almost slacked floor that someone like went and painted a ouija board on their floor and then they had a Roomba that looks like the pendant or the... What's it called? I don't know.

No, it basically just says... Penchant. Petchant? Nope. Leave me alone. Planchette. But no, it says like, oh, my Roomba's going to summon a demon. And it was funny for a second.

And then like 4,000 people shared it to the point where the mods of our old Facebook group had to create a rule like you are no longer allowed to share this and it will be deleted. And it caused so much chaos that now it's like the fucking broom challenge. Every like six months, one poor person who's new to the group will say, guys, have you seen this? And the world just loses their minds. It's always fun because like you can tell like when there's like a new slew of people who just started the podcast because we get sent all the stuff that the people six months ago whale

which is i mean we appreciate obviously it's hilarious i love it it's just like we all of a sudden get this influx of tweets about whale noises and we're like well i guess a whole new group of people are listening welcome this is your hazing ceremony every day there's a new person who finally gets to the lemon episode it's i finally understand lemon i'm like your life must have been real weird the last two months you must have not known why we post lemons everywhere okay so i'm trying to get to this goddamn story i'm sorry do you mind no i do actually yeah so so uh this story i was saying i'm glad that i didn't actually cover it a while ago because I recently actually experienced the story. What could that mean?

Is it an alien? No. I'm waiting for the day you get abducted. Oh, shit. I won't be here. You'll be recording alone. That's exactly why I can't wait. Okay.

Make that a meme, TikTok. I'm sorry. We also don't really understand tiktok clearly can you tell we were just watching the office and we heard the theme song and we were like that'd be a good tiktok hey don't give my idea away i'm doing something with that don't you dare steal that that's mine okay tm tm tm so damn it i'm kidding that was a surprise that was a surprise uh so i am covering the story of the minnesota iceman so what this is a cryptid um when i say i have recently come in contact with it i will get

to that a little bit later i have i have had a run-in with the minnesota iceman what could that mean christine's confused like tell me right now i'll tell you in like a good half an hour however long this usually takes talks are 90 are 90 seconds, so I think we should make these episodes 90 seconds to fit in. I actually bet someone would love that. Yeah, like 15-year-olds probably. We should probably get on it. Eva would love it.

Someone teach us how to make a TikTok podcast and we'll be the first to do it. A TikTok pod. If you keep giving away all of our freaking ideas, you are the worst. I am TMing all of this. Don't you dare. I will sue. She's talking to everyone that's about to tweet this out and make their own thing.

We just said this. So if we find something that's dated later, we know you heard this. I don't know how to sue anybody, but I'm going to learn. I'll Google it. The Minnesota Iceman is a cryptid, almost like a Bigfoot creature that was found frozen in a block of ice and is allegedly, it could be, the missing link in human evolution between ape and man. Stop. Now I'm excited. And here's a fun fact.

There are two songs written about the Minnesota Iceman. There are metal songs, naturally, called Where is the Minnesota Iceman? And the Minnesota Iceman C cometh by the band's impaler and troglodyte great here's another we also understand heavy metal very well i actually am like really into metal music no i'm not i'm kidding i was like wow this is a new fun fact about you i'm into broadway and doo-wops from the 50s actually so that part's true so uh here's another fun fact the minnesota iceman has been featured on several television shows including shipping wars uh i was waiting for that because i thought christine would enjoy it i did a little

head tilt like geo does what is that sound uh mysteries at the museum love and unsolved mysteries oh classic so uh here we go i'm gonna try this out for you let me know how it goes do it but only see the nice things to me so in the late 50s to the early 60s the quote ice man there's a few theories as to the how this ice man was found um like i said there are different stories over time that came out so i really we don't know what the proper one is but here are two of the most common ones excuse me so the ice man was found for sure in a warehouse in hong kong but how it got there um it said that either the ice man was found in the bering sea

did i say that right you did i always get so goddamn nervous we all know i'm so bad at it right basic geography um by a russian sealing ship but chinese authorities confiscated it once the ship docked in china they're like what's this block of ice filled with a man what's this iced up gorilla we're gonna take it corpse and so so that's one theory another is that it was found in hong kong because it was discovered floating by a Japanese whaling outfit. And then it was sold to an exporter in Hong Kong where it stayed stored in the warehouse. So from the warehouse, the Iceman was then sold potentially and most likely to a wealthy American collector. Sounds about right.

Fun fact, the anonymous wealthy owner of the Iceman is widely rumored to be Jimmy Stewart. What? We cannot confirm, but we all believe. But we also will not deny. For those of you who are not watching YouTube and listening to the audio, I am cleaning my glasses, which means I'm blind and cannot read my notes. Fun. Christine, riff. I love this idea of becoming a wealthy American collector who just buys corpses of potentially cryptid animals and just is like, this is mine now.

One day if you and I just make bank and like we can just slowly collect like we'll be like the cryptid Zach Bagans, just slowly collecting weird creatures for different parts of my mansion. If Rick and Kara finally double up on that Patreon donation. You heard it here first, folks. So I hope that's their names i just tried to remember uh yeah that would be let's pinky swear it but tm you can't do the same thing can you imagine if we had a cryptid tiktok get out of here tm tm tm tm m i swear to god m you are literally giving away every good idea we don't have any more that's it those are all three of them it took us a long time to find all three and i just said them in five minutes so uh yeah so the the owner may or may not be jimmy stewart although it is widely accepted apparently there's a lot of evidence that

suggests that so for the rest of the story just pretend it's jimmy stewart oh i will so it now enters this man named frank hansen frank is the main character of the story, by the way, not the Minnesota Iceman. So Frank, he was actually I I'll relay this later. Like I'll kind of explain how I know this, but this is actually kind of harder to find on the Internet. This is something that I in the middle of my personal experience, I learned this information. God, I'm just dying to know so uh frank was actually up before he had his encounter with the minnesota ice man he was traveling around the area in his tractor trailer and he was charging 10 cents to the public for them to see uh depending on the story either the smallest or the oldest john deere tractor in

history he had it he had it in the back of his trailer and he would charge people a dime to go into his trailer and just like get to look at it and then walk away and that was the smallest or oldest we don't know which we don't know could it be both the story i heard was smallest and then i tried to look it up later online and in frank's obituary it says something about him trying to show off the oldest because the oldest is more impressive because like okay oldest let show off the oldest. Because the oldest is more impressive. Let's say the oldest. Because smallest, I have that personally.

You gave it to me when you proposed. That's a fact. On a bracelet. And that also took a lot of hard work to find. Because let's not forget, I actually bought you a tractor-sized tractor. You did. From Amazon. Because I couldn't find.

No, it wasn't that you couldn't find. It's that you misread centimeters and inches and feet somehow. The picture on the internet made it look small because it was in the size of my hand. Because it's a thumbnail. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. You know what? You're lucky that someone's willing to buy you a tractor and then another one.

Oh, trust me. I'm fully on board with that. I don't have the oldest, though, and I'm a little bit salty about that. Okay. Someday. Hold on to it for longer than any other tractor that's ever existed, and one day you'll have the oldest. When the earth inevitably just corrodes everything else. Yeah, implodes.

I'll keep my bracelet. So Frank was known to travel around and show a tractor in his trailer. Okay. And that's when this eccentric Californianian millionaire showed up one day and he was like hey frank i've got something better that you'll probably want to show people instead of that tractor and then he shows frank the minnesota ice man and he hires frank to care for it because he's like i don't know what to do with this he's like i bought it because i'm fucking rich but i don't know how to take care of a giant ape man covered in ice you don't and so frank was now like okay so i'll be your agent he literally

would refer to himself as his agent great so he was the agent between the owner and the ice man so he would look after the ice man kind of keep the wealthy owner updated and he now instead of charging 10 cents for people to see this tractor he was now charging people a quarter 25 cents oh man to see this minnesota ice man although he was not called that yet he was just called uh a few different things i'll read those off in a second but let me just describe really quick what the ice man looks like because as i said i've seen him so i can't believe you've seen him so he is still today encased in glass um probably but not ice i meant ice oh oh oh one i was a clear thing that's made of water i i didn't

mean i was not calling you out i was like really curious i didn't mean no i just did that thing where my mom says gas station instead of grocery store i just assumed everyone was following my my weird brain ice ice got it okay um that's cool though yes uh and so it looks like some version of a sasquatch it's a very very very hairy humanoid creature that's probably it looks like eight feet tall oh my god so he is currently in ice slash glass slash the grocery store. The post office. Who's to say? And you can – so his right arm is kind of covering his groin and his crotch. And his left arm is kind of going in front of his face.

So it's covering part of his face so it's like he turned around saw somebody standing there was like oh wait no yeah he looks kind of scared yeah or my privates please don't oh god it looks like he's covering his crotch and then part of his face so you can see the outside of one of his hands you can see the inside of one of his hands which is interesting um you can see how hairy he is you can see the inside of one of his hands, which is interesting. You can see how hairy he is. You can see his toes and his fingers, and they're very ape-like. You can see there's a, it looks like there's almost like a couple wounds on him. So it looks more humanoid because it's not perfect. Sure.

Oh, what, because humans are perfect? I am. Well. You can also see that his mouth is open and the teeth are kind of bananas. They are very like square and large. Pretty crazy. So it's very it's an ape slash man, which is why they think it might be the missing link. So in 1966, that's when Frank started taking the Iceman out on the road and he was displaying at affairs and carnivals still in ice, but was off like you know pay a quarter and you can come look in the back of my truck because it

was never on display like on a stand or upright for people to look at you always had to go into his tractor trailer and then you would kind of just it was lying horizontally so you kind of start at its feet by the time you got in the tractor trailer and you could just look over the side of the fixture he was in and you could look into the glass and and see the ice man and so he was referring to it as a lot of names he was testing out what to call it on the road definitely uh not politically correct today but it was originally called the oriental mystery oh dear god i'm sorry i that was what what it was originally called it was originally called the oriental mystery oh dear god i'm sorry i that was what what it was originally called it was also called the cyber skoy cyberski creature s-i-b-e-r-s-k-o-y-e

creature oh like like siberian yeah but i don't i don't know how to pronounce the specific word i don't know and uh the creature in ice and so it eventually thank god he chose the creature in ice yeah that's probably the tamest shit the tamest of all wow i really like i felt gross saying those okay so anyway he said the creature in ice and so he started painting um different like i guess banners and signs saying like come meet the creature in ice and uh so many people start hearing about this thing when you knew the next carnival or the next fair was coming into town you would hope that he would be there to show you cool the creature in ice and so a lot

of people obviously into cryptozoology and things like that were really interested and so there was one naturalist his name was terry cullen and he went to go see the Iceman in Chicago. And he actually knew other cryptozoologists who were now considered experts at the time. One of his name was Ivan Sanderson. His last name was Huelvman? Huelvman? I always get nervous. You show me. I don't know. Hoivelman, it looks like. Okay, Hoivelman. So there's two guys, Sanderson and Hoivelman. I don't know. Hoivelman, it looks like. Okay, Hoivelman. So there's two guys, Sanderson and Hoivelman. I don't know that that's true, but I'm guessing.

Great. I am too. So they were in the middle of looking for evidence of Bigfoot because this is like right at the beginning of the 70s. Bigfoot is becoming like a huge sensation. Sure. And so a lot of cryptozoologists were hearing about this thing that kind of looked like Bigfoot encased in ice. And so people were really excited to see it. And Frank actually invited them to his home to study this creature to see if it maybe was Bigfoot.

Originally, they thought it was a forest cryptid called the Ngoi Rung, which is a Vietnamese forest people cryptid. So that was their original thought. They ended up writing about that a lot in a couple books. cryptid so that was their original thought they ended up writing about that a lot in a couple books and now they think a couple years later that it was a quote huge ape that was actually killed in vietnam where frank was actually stationed so they're like very interesting that you were he was in the air force he was stationed in vietnam at the same time that this huge ape actually was reported to have been killed there and so they think either he might

have made up this whole story and then shipped this thing back to america or maybe it really did coincidentally happen when he was there and then it got shipped on its own from vietnam and then he found it we don't really know but it is an interesting coincidence um and in that same year there was kind of like a like a stag magazine called The National Bulletin. What is that? Does that mean like a... They would publish some raunchy stuff.

Oh, got it. And they published a story about a woman named Helen who actually shot and killed a cryptid in the Minnesota area that looked a lot like this huge ape. Helen's pretty raunchy, I gotta say. Oh, so there is one article. I'm not even going to mention the title of it because it's too not pc these days super and uh it that was pretty raunchy apparently um oh i've i've seen that it's um uh it makes some like penthouse articles seem tame for today cute but so there was the story that this woman named helen and her name was helen westring and she shot and killed a cryptid while hunting in minnesota and that story has been used a lot to suggest that um that creature was also the minnesota

ice man a lot of people and a lot of sources have said that it might be the same creature that being said um the only helen westring the time, like in the country, was said to be in her 50s and in Nebraska at the time of the story. So it sounds like it was kind of a made up story that people are now leveraging into evidence. Sure. OK. But anyway, so the two cryptozoologists go to Frank's house and the three of them are examining it. They start calling it Bozo. That's like their loving pet name for it, which is what I was going to say.

Yeah, I wanted to get there before you did. Well done. You usually beat me to it. The words were coming out and you were like, no, no. So they declare that it's a new homo genus. It's called Homo pongoides. Whoa. And here are some of their findings.

called homo pongoides whoa and here are some of their findings so first i looked at the freshness of it and it looked like it had been deceased for a maximum of five years which validated the case that it might have come from vietnam oh so it was like not like from thousands of years no or millions of years ago they also actually both of those cryptozoologists had another theory that there was still neanderthals living in our time today. Holy shit. And so that also kind of confirmed that if it's only five years old and this is real, it looks very much like a Neanderthal. Wow. It could confirm their theory of that.

I do have a question. When they examined it, did they take it out of the ice or was it like through just looking? Excellent question, Christine. Finally, for once after three years, I have an answer. No, you always have an answer. I feel like I never have an answer. Yeah, but I have an answer that I'm not going to bullshit this time,

which is definitely a first. By the way, happy three years. I know. I was going to... We were already into your story and I was like, I guess I'll say next episode. I forgot.

But yeah, three years together. Yo, three years. And look how far we've come. Still calling each other bozo. Still not knowing how to pronounce things not even a little bit life is good eva just carries us carries the entire goddamn show we just close our eyes and let eva pull us along um so okay so you asked how did they examine yes okay uh so they were just looking through the ice they They weren't going to like melt the entire thing and then look through it.

That being said, there's one story on the Internet that says that a crack in the ice started showing up because since they were examining it for so long, it started melting and a crack in the ice showed. But the story I heard from someone who has a more personal relationship with the Minnesota Iceman. Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart. I spoke to him apparently when they were examining this one of them was trying to get a really good picture of it but because some of the ice is more fogged up than other parts um they were trying to figure out the right lighting to get the picture oh no and they actually had like a really hot lamp that

when they went to go bend over and like pick something up, they put the lamp literally on the ice. Oh, for God's sake. And it was so hot that the ice shattered. Oh, God. So the story online is that there's a crack in the ice. The story I heard is that the ice shattered. And so you could see a lot of it up close. Wow.

Which I don't know if I necessarily believe because if that's the case, while the ice isn't there, you should be taking a lot of pictures of it. And I couldn't find any like up close. Yeah yeah you'd think that was like the moment to get in there it's like an accident that like actually helps that like you might as well take advantage of right and there was so i'm kind of leaning more towards the um the crack in the ice theory sure but the crack in the ice did let air escape from inside and they immediately smelled rotting like decom which the big question was is this thing even real or was it like uh something that he just made as like a carnival event um like rubber or something like right yeah but now that they've literally smelled decomposition they're like this thing is fucking real like something this was once alive and it is not think about that yeah so that was their like biggest aha of like oh it's smelling

like putrefaction like it's it's this was alive so um bozo stinks bozo is smelly that's what christine says about me he's a dead fucking body. Honestly, to be fair, it smells like he's fucking Bozo the Iceman. Have you heard? Have you smelled his locker? It smells like a dead fucking body. Wow, we gotta bring Megan back. Good times.

They also noticed that there was a lack of a neck. It was just very muscular from the head to the shoulders. The extreme hairiness. The toes, I mentioned this earlier actually actually the toes were short stubbing all about the same size and length no like there wasn't any change oh interesting and they had callous pads which suggests that this creature walked on all fours at least some of the time and so it was on the on the hands it was there were pads on its hands yeah got it and uh and then also they noticed that there were also injuries like i know like i said earlier so um the ice man looked like it had been

shot in the eye and it looked like it had a wound in its right arm so interesting that it's like yeah covering both of the things or it's like both parts are wounded in some way oh weird so you know they say when you're being attacked your in your human instinct is to cover your head and your like internal organs so it would be like the natural right defense pose exactly wow so in 1969 sanderson and huevelmans however we agreed that that was said huevelman uh their findings are published and bozo officially becomes quote the minnesota ice man much more distinguished name i would argue yes no offense um no no i agree bozo and sassy that's fine for a little bit um so this actually makes people at the smithsonian interested because two expert cryptozoologists are saying that this thing is real and it smells like a dead fucking body and it like it looks like

it could possibly be real. Dr. Megan has a lot to say. Well Dr. Megan's name in this is Dr. John Napier. Close. And John is the director of the primate biology program at the Smithsonian. Cool. So he went to go see the Iceman and after viewing the Iceman he said that it was made of wax hair and latex. Oh uh-oh smithsonian having spent a bunch of money on trying to like go examine this thing they're always getting getting the wool pulled over their eyes so to speak so they ended up uh um making this release and announcing it to the public and this is a quote from it the smithsonian institution has withdrawn its interest in the so called minnesota iceman as it is as it is satisfied

the creature is simply a carnival exhibit made of latex rubber and hair information has been received from a reliable source that the smithsonian is not at liberty to disclose concerning the ownership of the model as well as the manner date and place of its fabrication this information combined with some recent suggestions has convinced us beyond reasonable doubt that the original model and the present so-called substitute are one in the same so when i say the original and the substitute the reason i bring that up or the reason that they even mention them um in their quote is because despite that release frank swore that there actually was an original and the one that the smithsonian saw was a replica

so now the story's starting to change a little bit so he's saying like oh the ones that these two cryptozoologists published about that one was real and that's why they that's why they say it was real the one you saw was fake and that's why you're saying it's fake so why i my thought is if you're gonna show the smithsonian something show them the real one you know what you're saying it's fake. So why? My thought is if you're going to show the Smithsonian something, show them the real one. If you know what you're doing, why are you giving them the fake one? The story starts to kind of break off here. Okay. So to be fair, the cryptozoologist did defend Frank from the Smithsonian saying, like, no, this thing was real.

Like, whatever you saw was not what we saw. Wow. like whatever you saw was not what we saw um wow but so the story starts to change and frank basically says that the ice man is actually a latex replica of the original because on the advice of an attorney he switched it out for the protection of its body because the ice might start melting again or it needs to kind of go into hiding because people were getting like frenzied about trying to see this thing um so he just got advice like okay you have the real thing get a fucking fake one made and then just charge people to see that one so you're not carrying that around sure the country and then he was also starting to go on tour like in like canada and

stuff so he was like taking it outside of the country and it was just getting really chaotic right that's why we hired um stunt doubles to go on tour for us it makes life so much easier yeah there's actually also a replica of evo we just don't like to tell anyone even doesn't even know actually oh oops awkward surprise but our replicas they're much funnier than us and they're they're obviously um so frank apparently was bringing like once he felt like people now knew there was a fake one he was sometimes bringing the real one out on tour and then he would like tell now knew there was a fake one he was sometimes bringing the real one out on tour and then he would like tell the showman like no this is the real one this time

like i felt like bringing this one out this time then when the story came out that it might be real it might be fake then he just went back to it being to only showing everyone the fake one it just like it got really messy this is why i didn't want to do this story for a while because i don't know a lot of it's a lot of like he said he said yeah yeah yeah yeah um and it's all the same person saying all these different things so later the story changed again that he never actually got the body from a wealthy owner um but he actually has had it since 1963 when he was stationed in the air force and while he was hunting he says he came upon three of these ice men he saw three of them oh one of them charged at him and he got scared

so he shot it in the eye and then he also shot it in uh like his arm deflected it so that would explain the two injuries that the two cryptozoologists saw apparently he freaked out because he never seen anything that big or scary so he ran away but he was not like he couldn't believe what he had seen so he went back to see if it was still there to prove himself that he had actually seen this creature and then he didn't think anyone would believe him when he described the creature that he shot so he brought it home oh so he uh he's like i know he literally didn't know what to do with it and so he told his wife that they were keeping it in the freezer until spring oh my god so now there's like this bigfoot kind of thing in their freezer oh my god and this

freaked people out because it was in the middle of i think think, the Vietnam War. Right. And he was stationed there, and he shot a humanoid creature in the woods and then dragged it home and kept it in the freezer, which means now the FBI thinks he might have killed a human being in a ghillie suit that was also stationed there. Oh, like an American. Like a person. I was going to say, they killed a lot of people over there.

I don't know why they're suddenly concerned, but I guess if it's another soldier or something. Well, now that he's admitting, like, I shot something that kind of looked like a human, and then I dragged it home and put it in a freezer. The FBI is now like, you might have committed a homicide. If this is... Yeah, but wasn't he

at war? Yeah, but it wasn't because he was in the middle of... Well, this was just attacking him look i don't know i don't know why i'm arguing with the fbi i don't know why either they were like you potentially committed murder because you were you just shot someone in the woods and you know we have to investigate this now because not only are you because it's not like it was like i said it's not like he was in the middle of a battle or anything. He was just deer hunting. He didn't know what he was looking at, but it was something humanoid and just shot it.

So even if it was in defense, the fact that the police don't know if it, because it's humanoid, they don't know if it's human or non-human. So like you might have killed a human being. And also you might be just carrying it around and charging people to look at it. Yeah. So they were afraid that he had been transporting and exploiting a dead body while crossing national borders. Yeah, that doesn't look, that's not a good look, I guess. So he, like, got wind that that was even a possibility. And so he, like, we never really heard from Frank again.

He was just like, the Iceman just kind of tapered off, like he wasn't really being shown at exhibits anymore. And slowly the uh i think because he was fearing a potential murder investigation all of a sudden the ice man goes missing which you would think this is when the fbi would really care like oh a potential murder victim is now gone just like poof but apparently they didn't care enough anymore they were just like okay well we threatened you with an investigation. You at least stopped charging people to see the body.

Maybe it was kind of like, this is probably a non-patriotic thing to say. But maybe they were just saying a statement of like, oh, well, we will look into this because this could be a murder and then like not be super. Maybe they weren't super into it. A lot of horrible shit happened to Vietnam. I think it was a dark time it wouldn't shock me that like this was down low on the priorities list of uh of war crimes but who's to say i don't know it's not me it's not me who's to say so don't listen to me it's not you it's not me it's not houdini it's definitely not don't it's the minnesota iceman it is because you're right we had to add an addendum to Em's original thing.

So the Iceman goes missing. And this is where the story varies again, because some people say that they have no idea on earth where it is. But sometimes Frank implies to people that he hid it in the Midwest. That's where I'm from. It's actually Christine. Why do you smell like fucking death? No, only when you break my icy exterior so i do can i have a quick ask a question yeah ask a quick question now you can't i clearly can't i'm physically incapable um but i don't again i don't know if this is something that's even

answered but like i know he kept the body in the freezer and then brought it with him but like how did it get encased in ice like did he um i think because when he went back to shoot to see what he had shot it was already in snow so it already kind of been frozen and then he kind of just threw it in the freezer maybe filled it to the brim with water and called it a goddamn day i'm not sure so it is like in a block it's literally like in like a han solo so he yeah so he probably just like not not you know what i mean not ice but frozen in that position in a tube of ice i love the star wars reference got it the very bad one the really correct one that blaze is definitely on board with um so uh sometimes frank implied that it

was hidden in the midwest sometimes uh frank would actually say oh well i don't have it anymore because it got lost in u.s customs when I was bringing it back from Canada. But the U.S. and Canadian customs, neither of them have any reports on a hold for this thing. I think maybe it would be written down somewhere. Somewhere. You'd think. So it's still missing in 2004. We don't know where it is.

And Frank dies. So and it's been hiding since the 80s. And now it's 2004. Wow. No deathbed confession. No deathbed confession. Damn. So, that being said, in 2013, the actual sign, like the old wooden banner that Frank had painted that said, like, the Minnesota Iceman or the Creature in Ice. That actually was found and sold on eBay.

And it was found from, like, when it had been made in the 60s. Cool. It sells on eBay for 20 grand. I want it so bad it hurts well it got bought damn it by a guy named steve boosty and we're gonna talk about steve boosty real quick so he was a kid in the 1970s and he grew up in honesdale pennsylvania and this is a quote from him when i was maybe four or five years old it must have been 1974 at the time i was really into dinosaurs caveman and the bigfoot craze that was just starting there were tv shows like in search of and my aunt knew that i was gonna love this thing which was touring around the country in

this tractor trailer it came to our town and set up in the parking lot at a kmart by the way it didn't matter if there was a carnival he just would drive up and be like do you want to see this thing or not or i'm gonna go to the next town kmart's like you need to get off our property he's like give me five minutes uh it was my aunt ginger my grandmother and me and i saw the sign creature in ice i went up these stairs into the dark tractor trailer and inside was this big frozen box like a freezer with glass on top all these adults were looking down into it moving around trying to get a good view and i wasn't tall enough to see so my aunt positioned me next to it ginger and what's funny about this is apparently aunt ginger picked him up so he could like look into the glass but

the the specific spot where she like picked picked him up and put him over the glass was right where the minnesota ice man's face was oh so he came face to face with this thing um wow so he says i jumped up and came face to face with the minnesota ice man i screamed everyone around me laughed it was a shocking thing to see big teeth blown out eyeball hair all over its body i studied it intently people had to go around me because i wouldn't move oh later i did some research as an adult and after years on the sideshow circuit the ice man was missing for years and I became obsessed with finding it. Yes. So not only was he obsessed with finding the Iceman and not only did, was he so obsessed, he eventually found the sign on eBay that he saw as a child and bought it. Yeah. But I think when he came face to face with this thing at five years

old, it's opened a whole interest in just creepy, cryptid, supernatural, paranormal. He just got super into it and it was always a big obsession of his. Wow. So he ended up building a museum and collecting all of these weird things just because he was obsessed with the Minnesota Iceman originally. This guy is cool. I take it back. He deserves the freaking sign. I mean, seriously. get back he deserves the freaking sign i mean seriously so in 2016 steve actually what he had

been looking high and low for this goddamn thing since he was like 20 or wow whatever and he finally found the ice man no and he was like i fucking need this yes and he found out that it was actually still in that wealthy man's family. The family had inherited this thing and they were like, we don't know what to do. Like literally, what are you supposed to do? He's like, they were like, please take it away from us. So he bought it from them. The thing that he's been obsessing about since he was five. Unbelievable. He now owns it and he made it part of his exhibit at the Museum of Weird in Austin, Texas. Oh my God, it's coming full circle. So we just had a show in Austin, Texas. Oh my god, it's coming full circle.

So we just had a show in Austin, Texas. Yeah. And it was we got in really not really late, but like eight o'clock at night. And I was like, what are things that are open late in Austin, Texas? Because I only have even I were like margaritas and tacos. And I was like, no, I was like, absolutely not. I need to do some weird shit. And so I was like, what's open late in Austin, Texas? By the way, the answer is everything. And when I was specifically looking for something weird, the first thing that came up was the Museum of Weird that's open until midnight. And I was like, well, well, here I go.

So I hopped on a little bird, went over to the Museum of Weird. And I didn't even know, by the way, that the Minnesota Iceman was there. I found out all this information after the fact, but I had been way, that the Minnesota Iceman was there. I found out all this information after the fact. But I had been wanting to cover the Minnesota Iceman for months. I just happened to hear about this thing called the Museum of Weird. And you walk through the whole thing. And then the Minnesota Iceman is at the very end. And I didn't even know what I'd walked into.

So you go into this museum. By the way, I got recognized by a very lovely mother and daughter. Oh, my goodness. And they were very excited. They were like, we're only in town for your show. i can't believe we ran into you here so hello to them of all places they run into you they were like of fucking course we'd see you here it's kind of clock at night it's pretty easy to find us because like when even i were spotted in new orleans we were definitely just at a bar that had really good drink deals notice that i'm always alone

when we go to cities and eva and christine are drinking because m leaves us okay it's not we don't ditch you no i really likes i really like going on like self quests yeah and so usually when they're like oh i'm thirsty and i want to go get a margarita i'm like good i don't drink i'm gonna go do something really fucking weird yes yes so uh yeah that's usually how you can find us we really are like so predictable like people are like wow it's this isn't even shocking that you're here no they ran into me they were actually coming out of the room from seeing the minnesota ice man and they were like and i was like yep here i am it's literally like i was saying i was at the space exhibit just staring at the ceiling for like 10 minutes and this woman's like oh i saw you so uh

so you go through this whole um museum a lot of really cool stuff there and then the last part of it is like a walking tour and they take you into this room and you see this weird like cryo chamber and i was like what the fuck is in there like am i gonna die here and i'd forgotten totally about the minnesota ice man i hadn't thought about it in like a few weeks and then i was looking at all the signs around and the sign that he bought from ebay from the 60s is hanging above it cool so you can still see the original sign and then look down into the chamber and see the minnesota ice man and there was a whole that's how i found out some of this information that i couldn't find online yeah but so i did get to see it i got to go

up and look in the cryo chamber a cryo chain it looked super bananas and like i said it's now in its own temperature controlled chamber and i did ask if they plan on doing any more tests because there's apparently the real one and the fake one that he also would switch out every now and then apparently this is the real real real one and um one. And apparently the Smithsonian is now in the next couple of years going to reinvestigate is what I was told. So they're finally like less heard about their original. Yeah, I guess they're like, OK, if this is the real deal, maybe we'll try it again. I don't know if maybe that was the tour guide just like hyping me up. But it was told to me that new investigations were going to be happening soon oh my god cool

and um and yeah so a quick fun fact is uh special effects artists from fox and disney specifically a father-son team called bob and ken howell they actually say that this is not real it never was because in 1967 they were hired to create the ice man but frank says they were hired to create the replica not the real thing the replica from the real thing and another fun fact is that they wouldn't they know that there was a real one to be like we had to copy the real one to make the fake one that's what i would think it's a little fishy they also are the ones that made the mammoths down at the labrea tar pits oh my god oh i love the guys if you have not been it's so cool well so for them since they seem to have a a lot of experience and knowledge on that specific time

period oh sure they already know how to like fucking build a mammoth they probably it's it's just interesting that they're also making other either prehistoric or mysterious creatures. And what's a coincidence about that is Jimmy Stewart was actually a large donor to the museum of La Brea Tar Pits. So interesting twist. I'm not saying Jimmy Stewart owned the Iceman. I'm not saying that the special effects people made this thing. We don't even know 100% it was him who even owned it but but it's interesting that the wealthy potential owner of the ice man also made a large donation to this place where he could have possibly funded a replica being made wow and keeping it hush hush which is interesting because if you go back and look at the public release that the smithsonian said they said because of people who say that they were they helped

fabricate one of these creatures which we will will not disclose. They were probably talking about. It was probably these guys who were like, hello, we've said it. Yes. So anyway, that's the Minnesota Iceman. What? I have no clue about this. I've never heard about this. I was shocked.

I'm really, it really happened in a very weird way because all of a sudden I was next to the chamber looking at the Minnesota Iceman. I was like, you son of a bitch. I was about to. You little sneaky bastard. I was about to talk about you and have never seen you. I see you wagging your finger yeah and then i saw a little and i was like well now i have to report it about it i have to report this to somebody i have to report this that's a fact oh my god that is so cool well when you said you came face to face i was like

like in the woods were you hiking despite everything you go everything against in your body that goes against hiking feet away from him unbelievable that is banana grams yeah it is it's really banana it's really noodles it's noodles by the way we're starting that up um you already told that remember i don't care i'm gonna say it again okay i said noodles one time it fucking killed yeah by the killed i mean like the audience of christ of Christine and Eva so now we're saying noodles a lot yeah I remember we were saying how like I personally had never heard Eva laugh so uproariously and uh suddenly I felt really good about myself we just kind of stared back like I stopped laughing to look at Em like wow you really got Eva back there that was pretty good anyway it was noodles it was noodles wow this is a good one, Em. I liked that a lot.

Thank you. I have a story for you today that I'm also extremely excited to share. Oh my goodness. Look at us go. Look at us go. Who would have thought? Look at us. So this is the story.

It's one that I've heard of for years and never really had fully committed to doing until now. Finally bit the bullet, so to say okay and this is the story of Dorothea Puente aka the death house landlady aka the shadow killer oh that's arguably the creepiest one of all that is I am excited I don't know what this is though okay perfect perfect, perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Just how I like it. Okay, so I'm gonna just kind of start from square one here to give you a little background. Best place to start, I think. The beginning. I usually start at like square 48 times two. Have you ever seen me try to figure out floors on a house? I usually start on the ninth floor

and end on floor three. I was like, okay, so we're on the first floor then we go up two floors and we're in the basement and i'm like wait you just said we went upstairs i'm so confused we're in the attic and then we're going upstairs but you know what actually is that's i'm completely wrong because what happens is you say that and i go uh-huh okay and i follow completely until we post it and people go that's why we're friends. Yeah. I just follow along. You really just follow blindly, which I appreciate. One always. One hundred percent.

OK, so let's go. So early life. Dorothea was born. Dorothea Helen Gray in Redlands, California, which incidentally is where my brother went to college. Fun fact. Fun fact. University of Redlands, baby.

I one time visited him and I was just shocked at how unbelievably beautiful this place was. Never been. It's gorgeous. He didn't love it, but that's besides the point. So she's born January 9th, 1929 in Redlands, California. She is the sixth of seven children born into a pretty impoverished family. Her parents died when she's pretty young and she is sent to an orphanage and is uh later adopted by relatives so fast forward five years in 1946 dorothea reportedly marries for the first time to a guy named fred and she the two of them have uh so this is where it gets a little dicey because i love it so quickly so quickly quickly. But it's more just like that. It's unclear what exactly happened to the children, which is slightly alarming.

Oh, boy. So she, depending on the source, either had one or two daughters who she either put up for adoption, left to live with relatives or one of them could have died or the her husband left her and or he died of a heart attack so we don't really know this was very early really just go anywhere huh it's like a choose your own adventure but everyone kind of ends up in a very bad place at the end it's like choose your own adventure every one of them is sad everyone loses your adventure just sucks uh ready sad venture oh oh choose your own sad venture tm for tiktok don't steal that swear to god so instead of a tm we should call it a tt a ttm a tiktok tttm tiktok trademark to take me out this is so stupid it's a ttt a tiktok trademark sure okay whatever. Don't steal that either. Okay. So in 1948, Dora Thea has her first little foray into crime.

She is convicted of forging checks and is originally sentenced to one year but serves only six months in jail. Then in 52, she marries another man because remember, we don't know if her first husband died or left or what happened to him. So she marries a Swedish man named Axel Johansson. And the relationship is abusive, violent, but they remain legally married for 14 years. In the 50s, so looking back, Dorothea now claims that, well, not now, but in later years, she claimed that in 1957 uh she toured with the Rockettes great interestingly that claim is fully unfounded uh as is the fact that she won ten thousand dollars so I don't know both sound awesome both sound awesome if they're true um

but there is kind of this whole notion that you'll come to learn about her is that she just fabricates a lot of things and lies a lot. So she's here for the theatrics. Here for a walking theatric. As am I. Yes. All of you are just walking theatrics, walking through my life. So in the 60s, Dorothy is back in her crime life. She's sentenced to 90 days in jail for starting a brothel.

Oh, boy. That's fun. Okay. Shortly after her release the same year, she serves another 90 days for vagrancy, which is like, okay, totally different level here. And then in 1961, Johansson has Dorothea committed to a psychiatric hospital. So it's slightly turbulent, her life at this point. She's no longer with him. Choose your new sad venture choose the next adventure on your journey uh yeah so she the children she's not connected to her children anymore uh is now not with either of her husbands and has been sentenced

to a psychiatric hospital sometime in the early 60s she so she's out of the psychiatric hospital she begins working as a nurse for the elderly and the infirm. And she starts to manage boarding houses. She divorces her Swedish husband. And she marries another man. He is 16 years younger. They get married in Mexico City. And at this time, so she has some family friends.

They're called the Ordorica family. And they have this like beautiful Victorian house that she. OK, so by the way, I forgot to tell you. The reason I picked this story for this week is that it's set in Sacramento and we're going to Sacramento this week. That's fun. So fun fact. This is a shout out. By the time this comes out, we'll have left. But in honor of Sacramento, I'm doing this story.

So the family has this house in Sacramento and they are moving and they're trying to sell it. And she proposes this idea to the Ordo Rico family. She's like, well, why don't I just move in and I'll pay you rent. And that way you don't have to go through the trouble of selling the house and yada yada. And they like are like, that's a great idea you can move on in and she's uh you know older at this point and she's like very trusted in the community like a pillar a pillar you one might say a pillar one might one might one might and a killer of the community a killer of the community a killer of the community pillar killer killer pillar we'll work on it okay wait no one okay uh so happily you got it happily okay so now she's like in her middle age at this point uh her husband robert puente

where she ends up getting her the name that she keeps for the rest of her life noted he is unfaithful to her and so uh she separates from him in 1969 and she opens a 16 room boarding house in the victorian mansion that she had bought from the ordorico family or she's renting from them now basically so this is located the building's located on 21st and f streets in sacramento if you want to go check it out maybe we can stay there em when we're there yes i'll be there tomorrow i'll let you know how it goes you're literally flying there tomorrow that's true for my self-quest by the way i asked christine to let me go a day early happily i'll let you

go daily i was like i'd like to explore please and thanks yeah i uh that'll be fun maybe you'll get recognized at the weirdest thing in sacramento i'll meet the puentes please don't okay you'll see why okay uh so now we're in the 70s yay all right tubular i mean far out i mean radical groovy in the early 70s uh dorothea began to cultivate so she has this boarding house right she begins to cultivate relationships with social workers who are really on board with this new boarding house she's created because they're looking, they're taking care of these people who are down on their luck. A lot of them are struggling with mental illness. A lot of them have addictions, that kind of thing, and have trouble holding a job, staying, holding a residence, that kind of thing. And so she opens this boarding house, is super welcoming, and is like, I want to open this up to people who are in need.

And so she befriends a lot of social workers who are like, this is great. An older woman in the community, a pillar, who has this beautiful Victorian house where she wants to help these people stabilize, basically. Get back on their feet so mid-1970s uh there's neighbors begin to notice a local man known only as chief who um there he is that's they call me that's they call you uh who he he worked for dorothea on the property nobody really knew how this kind of relationship was set up um and he didn't have he was living at the building he didn't really have like a stable residence and what he would do is he would bring wheelbarrows and buckets filled with dirt she

so she gardened a lot oh okay that was like he just said like he brings wheelbarrows i know it sounds like okay literally it's so weird because that was so she had a driver. I don't know. She had a driver and this driver always described like, God, every six months she would go to like whatever the Home Depot or, you know, and buy like all this crap for the garden. And she was obsessed with building this beautiful garden. And so whenever the landlords who own the house, her friends would come over, they were like amazed because she like fully landscaped the backyard, made it gorgeous.

And so she hired this guy, Chief, who was like this really kind of grumbly, quiet man. And he basically spent all day like working for her and filling up the wheelbarrows with dirt and helping her. I don't know. She was driving him around. She was kind of old and he was strong. Just throwing shit around. You know, you know how you do. the wheelbarrows with dirt and helping her i don't know she was driving them around she was kind of old and he was strong just throwing shit around you know you know how you do just digging holes i garden like a gopher clearly clearly we spend a lot of time in nature emini are gophers outside yeah no and they're in they're under your bed what do you think they are okay um right so one day neighbors were like

huh that's weird we haven't seen chief in a while oh no he went he hold even hold digging like a gopher yeah he would just go for it away i will say he goes for is it so okay i'm sorry oh god oh no go for so let's just say this is the first kind of red flag people are like well this guy just kind of disappeared she had no really reason but but a lot of it was easy to explain because these you know a lot of these people came in and out and they hadn't held regular steady jobs or you know a lot of them again like we're struggling with addiction or mental illness so it was kind of easy to say well who knows like he just wandered off or right whatever how long did he work for her um so it seems to be a couple years early 70s it looks like long enough to be friends i would say yeah yeah and she was also extremely close with um the

people who lived in her boarding house there were 12 rooms and she had also extremely close with the people who lived in her boarding house. There were 12 rooms, and she had also, I want to add too, like, very, very strict rules. So people, like, for example, in the morning, she served breakfast at 5.30 a.m., and if you were a second late, you were not allowed to eat. Like, you would have to go, you couldn't even have coffee. Yeah, you had to go back to your room. And this was really hard on a lot of them because, you know, if you're really struggling mentally or however. You're getting out of bed at the right time every day. At 5 in the morning?

I mean, come on. On my best day, I can't do that. No. So she held very, very, very strict rules in this house. But she also was very, very, like, nurturing towards the people in the home. Like, most of them were men, some were women, but she became very like she was sort of like a mother figure to a lot of them who didn't have families of their own and that kind of thing. So in the mid 70s, Dorothea is just becoming a stronger and bigger pillar of the community as years go by. She's donating to charities, political campaigns.

She's very involved uh later she said that in the mid 70s she met clint eastwood spiro agnew jerry brown and ronald reagan however there is zero evidence of any of that being true so just like the rockettes thing kind of like the rockettes thing um there is actually a photo of her meeting uh jerry uh meeting jerry brown but like the other one like i don't think she met ronald reagan maybe she did like she could have like waved at him yeah yeah yeah kind of like a slight exaggeration in the same diner as him perhaps yeah uh in 1976 she could have been like us like we just kind of blow everything out of proportion like she was like oh

yeah i saw ronald reagan like at the space museum taking selfies and i saw him so i'm so we're friends so we're married now right right right yeah i saw i saw him at the museum of weird before i ran to the menace at iceman uh yeah so who's to say but uh it's just worth adding to that like throughout this whole time she's kind of making herself seem way more grandiose than she probably was. She, at this point, marries for the fourth and final time to a guy named Pedro Montalvo. But that marriage only lasts a few months before it goes down the drains. And at this point, she comes up with a really fun new habit, which is that she starts going to bars. And she's like an older woman.

And she kind of has this very kind of grandmotherly look like if you look her up she looks very much matronly like like a 80s grandmother like yeah like she wore you know little house dresses and giant glasses and well maybe some moomoos had like a perm yeah yeah like a day moomo yeah yeah and she looked very people were very charmed by her because she just seemed very gentle and like sweet and charming, you know. So she began going to bars and she would meet, she would kind of like sniff out the people in the bar who were older, who had, you know, alcohol addiction, who a lot of times had social security checks that she could somehow con her way into becoming a part of uh-huh and so this is uh what she started doing she started forging social security checks after kind of sneaking information out of people and so in the late 1970s she is arrested for this

forged check scam because people in the communities where she would do this finally caught on and basically reported her. But so she is when she's on probation, she continues her scam. She just cannot help herself. And this keeps going on and on. And in 1981, she starts renting an apartment in downtown Sacramento. And this is at 1426 F street uh and this is where things get pretty wild okay okay so pretty noodles pretty noodles one might say like a little new new whoa that was fucking new new i'm not scared the shit out of me i did the table thing again oh m oh that was noodles oh my god thank god we already drank our starbucks that could have ended really poorly thank god you drank that beer on the table thank god i drink beer to make your life a little

easier i'm just gonna stop touching it okay go ahead okay great what's the noodles part okay so this gets really noodles and now that i'm reading this i'm thinking i'm confused. I understood that the house that she had purchased originally was from that family that I mentioned. It might have been this house. Are there a lot of Victorian homes up there? Sure. Okay. I don't know. So in the early 80s, okay, so she buys this house.

And if it is based on what I learned i mean then again i watch a lot of these investigation discovery things and they kind of tend to condense information and you know it's occurring in multiple houses but maybe they make it seem like it was one place you'll see at the end but so she starts creating this boarding house even though legally she has been banned from creating a boarding house because of all her illegal activities. But because she's kind of a charming older woman. Love it. Nobody seems to suspect the pillar of the community. Why would you? Why would you?

Right. So over the course of the 80s, she adopts more matronly, as you said, mannerisms, clothing. She even ages herself intentionally 10 to 15 years to appear more harmless and trustworthy so yeah she has some nefarious plans let's put it that way various we gotta start bringing that word that's a great freaking word i love it feels right yep it feels wrong so right and so wrong in the early 80s she begins acting as a home caregiver and this is that same idea of you know she would find people who are down on their luck who had addictions who struggled with mental illness and she would basically talk either them or their social worker into letting them live

under her care and uh at this point it is believed that she drugged three separate women to steal valuables, cash and checks from them in April 1982. Again, like all of this did not come out until later. So it's very much a timeline of like everything seems fine. And then later on, they look back and they're like, holy shit, all of this has been going on for decades. Yeah. Hindsight's 20-20. Yeah. Just sprinkling some fun facts in here for you. Please do. Keep things interesting.

Yeah, just sprinkling some fun facts in here for you. Please do. Keep things interesting. So in April 1982. My apologies. The dogs are truly driving me up a wall right now. This is what happens when we wait until the end of the day when they get all rowdy. That's the thing is they sleep in all day and we're eating pasta and they're asleep and we're like, this is so perfect and calm we got way too cocky why do we do this we gotta start remembering to do it earlier in the day we gotta know better man okay three years still have no idea oh there's a hole

in my sock oh no not that too that was the last fucking straw this is the podcast has now ended the hole in the sock choose your sad venture oh my god okay here we go okay i don't even now anymore know where i am nefarious so nefarious okay guys yeah so nefarious so dorothea had a tenant uh at her home named Ruth Monroe. In April of 1982, Ruth Monroe is found dead in her room. Oh, boy. Dorothea tells police that Monroe was distraught, was suicidal. The death is ruled a suicide. Okay. I have a hunch it wasn't, though.

Do you? Yeah, I think so. Hmm. Okay. I have a hunch it wasn't, though. Do you? Yeah, I think so. Hmm. And Dorothea was, oh, wow, named a beneficiary of Monroe's. And so she collects a cool six grand from her. A cool six grand. A few weeks later, in 1982, Dorothea drugs and robs 74-year-old pensioner Malcolm McKenzie. Oh, okay.

She even stole the pinky ring off his finger as he was dying just like looking at him die and was like hmm i'll take this too let him have his goddamn ring i mean for god's sake yeah last just for five more seconds really truly um so on august 18th 1982 the same year Dorothea is convicted of three charges of theft and is sentenced to five years at the California Institute for Women in Corona, California. I was going to say, she's just getting away with this. Yeah, she's getting caught for theft, but not for the maybe for that pinky ring, but not much else. Not the dead person attached to the pinky ring.

Not all the dead people. Yeah. So while she's in prison dorothea begins to correspond correspond with uh a guy named everson gilmouth of oregon okay and in september of 85 she's released from prison and guess who's there to pick him pick her up who it's a good guy named everson gilmouth from oregon perfect he shows up in his red ford pickup truck and uh comes to uh pick her up and immediately they begin talk of marriage oh he moves into the apartment with her uh for six hundred dollars a month he's paying her rent to move in there and uh her federal probation at this point um extends to 1990 okay so it's the mid-80s at this point and her probation is set until 1990 but during this time she is prohibited from having a license or a permit to operate a boarding house for very obvious

reasons which she like grossly disobeys so don't even worry about it obviously she's a pillar of the community because she can do whatever she wants yeah that is has been made clear in november of 1985 she hires a handyman named ismael flores ismail ismail ishmael maybe there's no h but ishmael oh i don't know uh in exchange for labor and 800 she gives him everson gilmouse pickup truck oh and people are like that's weird wouldn't he want to keep's pickup truck. Oh. And people are like, that's weird. Wouldn't he want to keep his pickup truck? Did he know about this deal? What an odd payment. Yeah. And also that's not yours. But then they realize that's odd also is that Gilmouth has not been seen for a week. Also, where is he? Also, hold on. Why are you giving away his car? And where did he go without

his car? Oh my. Yeah. So that's a weird fun fact that people were like huh anyway let's move on moving on so before flores finishes his work who's the person that she just gave this truck to uh her missing lover uh dorothy requests that he build her a little something something for the backyard she requests that he build her a wooden box that's six feet by three feet by two feet so a coffin he does so and then i mean listen this woman gave him a big red pickup truck he's probably like okay like if you want me to build a box it's like an elderly woman you don't think like oh she's so nefarious you know right she's not even elderly woman. You don't think like, oh, she's so nefarious, you know? Right. She's not even elderly. She's just making herself look 15 years older than her kind of middle-aged self.

So he does this. He helps her build this box. And then he helps her dump the box alongside of the highway. So that's good. And he's not aware of what's happening? No. Okay. He's just like, sure.

All right. She's like, wow, look at that pillar of the community in her mumo just killing it sweet killing it killing people choose your own adventure um so uh now i got really worked up here okay goofy sorry we got goofy how dare i so uh he helps her dump this box on the side of the highway i wonder if she she was just like, never mind. I don't want it anymore. Can you put it over there? My thought was like, if I were her, I'd be like, I wonder when he's going to notice. Like, what is happening here?

If I were her, I'd be like, let's push this a little farther. Like, hey, could you also light it on fire and push it down the hill? Also, could you send the police a letter saying never look for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Dorothea continues to collect uh her lover's gilmouse pension and social security checks obviously she even writes letters to his family pretending to be him so she didn't pretend to be him but she did say that he's pretty sick so she's writing on his behalf and that he says hello and is doing great he just has kind of she's a little

under the weather so he's unable to write but so she's gonna write for him so she continues this like weird charade and then on january 1st 1986 uh he someone is perusing the side of the highway uh discovers everson gilmast decomposed body in a wooden box on the banks of the river nearby uh he weirdly enough remained a John Doe at this point so what okay he was discovered the body was discovered but again nobody would have tied this to her like there's no way to tie this to her so at this point there's just this John Doe been found on the side of the highway. Dorothea continues to take tenants at this time up to 40 total, like spanning the whole time that she ran this illegal boarding house, by the way.

She had 40 residents. What she would do is she would steal their mail. She would forge their checks. She would then give them a small stipend to kind of keep them going and keep them quiet uh if they complained then this is pretty fucked up she would report an anonymous report to the police saying that this tenant was being disorderly and drunk and like violent and then like they relapsed or something yeah yeah she would take advantage of exactly that she would take advantage and report them anonymously so it wouldn't even come back to her and then they would get picked up and taken in and she'd be like oh that's so tragic he was so like a son to me oh my god yeah and

there's actually so while they would sit in jail and usually temporarily because it would be like a drunken disorderly they would sit in jail for a month or two and this whole time she would continue to steal their checks and now it's obviously even easier because they were in jail and uh the mail carrier even said like she was the only she would wait outside for the mail and take it in her own hands and would not let anyone touch it or look at it like she was super weird about getting the mail because she didn't want and remind me what was her reasoning if they ever asked like where can i have my check she would they she would just say it's like for rent or yeah i don't know if she would pay them oh but i think she would steal so it's like take a cut of it yeah i think i think she probably would take a cut of it she would give them some and she would

feed them and house them so you're probably right that a lot of it was phrased as like well you're living with me so i'm going to right take some of your money i don't know but a lot of the times like there were people there who were really really couldn't survive on their own who were had were battling schizophrenia like really bad cases of schizophrenia who could barely function on their own right and so she it was just super easy for her to take advantage of these people who wouldn't even know to ask for their social security check so that happened a lot as well and then when they did notice obviously she would just be like i'm gonna call the police real quick on you and have you sent to jail meanwhile through all of this bullshit

dorothea is still like the social worker's little angel because she's just like no bring them to me they're like a really difficult case they're really struggling like i will take care of them you know and and it's it's just so fucked up and uh and so a lot of times anytime they had a problematic person that they didn't know where to place or they had struggle finding a spot for them they would call dorothea and she would always take them in so in august night on august 19th of 1986, one of Dorothea's boarders, a woman named Betty Palmer, vanished. Weeks later, Dorothea began using her ID with Dorothea's photo to collect her benefit checks. So she disappeared. But then, you know, this was even better for Dorothea because this person would disappear. This time Betty, for example.

Right. And just like the people who were in jail, they couldn't say anything because they didn't know. dorothea because this person would disappear this time betty but for example right and like just like the people who were in jail they couldn't say anything because they didn't know and so if they were vanished she could just be like i don't know but the mail's still coming to my house and keep collecting it so fast forward a couple years uh in february of 87 a woman named leona carpenter age 78 takes up residency in dorothea's boarding house she is never seen again okay in july this is where it just like rapidly declines there's no other way to kind of phrase it like just people just start disappearing people just start going away going bye-bye very quickly uh very nefariously don't you i'm overdoing it huh don't you dare in july

of 1987 62 year old james gallup is put in dorothea's care also never seen again geez wow october 1987 so this is all the same year by the way 62 year old vera martin moves in and disappears shortly thereafter february of 98, I'm sorry, of 88, so a couple months after that, a guy named Bert Montoya, he actually, so he's 52, he actually was referenced in one of the Investigation Discovery episodes I watched.

I think it's called like A Stranger in My House or something. But so they talked about, they used him as kind of a focal point for the episode and they have video of him, like original footage, which makes it even sadder because you can like see this man he was struggling deeply with um schizophrenia and his social worker was really trying to find a place for him and finally thought it was like such a blessing that she discovered um dorothea and was like such a shame yeah it is it's really tragic and uh this this man you know didn't have family he had lost his social security number and so he was unable

to collect uh any sort of benefit from the government because he was just he just was really struggling to function they in the show they mentioned like the medications that he'd been put on just weren't working um and he he said he could still hear voices no matter how many medications they put him on and so she of course said oh please bring him to me and basically from this point on bert became like her like her uh project yeah kind of like her project he basically thought of her as his mother and and he was really uh they got a weird codependency yeah yeah exactly and like i mean you know she fed him take care of him he didn't have any other family and so to to him she was like a mother figure and she took a liking to him and like really tried to help him on a one-on-one

level that apparently the other tenants actually were a little bit jealous of because they're like well we're paying rent and stuff and like he's getting extra right like why are you taking care of us like that yeah exactly and so like she definitely played favorites and burt was definitely a favorite of hers um and he really liked living there at first okay let me see now i lost my place again oh so she took over his affairs because he needed help with managing his, you know, all his financial get his financial stuff in order. So she would an angel took over and made sure that she would take care of it for him. In October of 1988, it's said that suddenly people started realizing he wasn't around anymore. And because he was such like a primary resident of this place and was like her right-hand man,

like he helped her with every project. Like he kind of took over. So that other guy who would like help the wheelbarrow guy. Yeah. So he would help with all of that same stuff. He kind of took over a lot of the residents. Just the right-hand man. Yeah, the right-hand man.

And a lot of people, again, got jealous because it was like, well, I was being paid to do that. And now suddenly he's here and he takes over all the tasks. Right. Yada, yada. So all of a sudden neighbors are like, that's weird. He's not around. And, of course, immediately his social worker is like, where did he go? Because I'm in charge of making sure he's okay.

Where is he? That's important to my job right this is kind of my entire thing is i need to know where the hell he is um and so she the social worker files a missing persons report and the police come to dorothea's house and are like well we're looking for bert and she says oh here's a note uh that he wrote and it's it's a note saying he left and didn't want to live there anymore and she's like he just kind of left and then a tenant of Dorothea's passes a note to the officer so

okay so she gives the police a note that's from Burt quote unquote and it says hi I decided to leave dorothea's house okay see that's proof he left on his own another tenant passes a note to police and this note says she instructed him to lie about burt's whereabouts so he's like something fishy is going on here and i need to tell the police because they're looking into where he is got it so things are starting to unravel

okay so november 1988 police talked to this social worker who filed the missing persons report and she's like i don't care about this note i I don't think that's real. I think she's full of shit and shady as hell. And she also says, I think you should check the garden. And the police are like, what do you mean? Like, why check the garden? And she says, you know, every time I would go over there, there was a guy with a wheelbarrow running around and there were piles of dirt fresh piles of dirt uh-huh aka potential bodies aka she was like people seem to keep vanishing and there's piles of dirt everywhere and also good place to start looking good place to start and she also said and obviously

the the the man in my care is missing now too so. So this has now become very personal. Yeah. And so police are like, all right, let's go back with a search warrant. And they show up and she's very much she's like, no, come on in. Come on in. And like stay away from the yard almost. No, no. She's like, come on. Welcome to my home. And, you know, this elderly woman and they're like, this is so weird because she's so charming and old and frail.

Like you would never think, you know? Yeah. But when you walk in the house, there's like this terrible reek, like this terrible, terrible smell to the point that neighbors had already reported this multiple times. And so basically things are adding up at this point where they're like, OK, we smell it. The neighbors have reported smelling it. A couple people have now vanished without a trace. And the social worker says there's piles of dirt in the backyard right i mean all signs point to this so they start digging and the guy who actually is the lead investigator was interviewed

in the investigation discovery episode and he describes looking um doing the doing the dig and they did it by you know on their own they were like we'll just dig a little bit he's like we dug three holes we didn't find anything and then um we dug another hole and he's like and i started finding these like pieces of leather and i was just like putting them in a pile i was like i don't know what this is there's also a lot of trash like she would bury her trash and so he's like going through trash he's like we found all these pieces of leather he's like then i hit a tree root and so I was trying to get past it. And I yanked on it with all my might and pulled out a femur. Goodbye.

And it was a human leg bone. Goodbye. Later found out that the pieces of leather were pieces of skin. That he was pulling out of the ground. And did not know at the time. Thought it was just a piece of clothing. Nope. Pieces of skin.

Good to know skin becomes leather. How fun is that? I think Ed Gein taught us that. Nipple belt, fun times. Yep. Okay. So, oh, I also want to add fun fact. The people who, the family that was friends with her who had rented the house

to her uh they so they came back a lot and to like check in and they were always amazed at like the garden and how much she worked like i was saying and they were like god she kept the house so beautiful and the garden so beautiful but they started to notice the smell and they were like okay this is like you're renting but this is our house like we don't like this right right right and um the one thing the mom of this family noticed that that she had all these beautiful roses that she had like spent years cultivating in the back and one day she showed up and it was just concrete block like all over where the roses were and she she was interviewed in this episode and she's like and at the time i was like pissed. And she was, okay, she said this in Spanish. So I'm doing a lovely translation of my own mannerisms on top of what she was saying.

But she was basically like, I was so furious. Like, why would you pave over my roses? Like, I worked so hard on those. And, you know, we never agreed to this. Right. And you had taken such good care of the garden. And her only response was, I don't like roses. So, OK, rude.

So just all this stuff is kind of adding up, obviously. So anyway, lead investigator pulls out a femur and a bunch of skin. And apparently she's like, oh, my God, I have no idea what that is. Like, of course, you know, know she's like how on earth could that end up how did a human body get here i mean i guess to be fair you could argue that someone else boarding there could have been exactly all this exactly because there were so many people 40 in and out going in and out all the time yeah so yeah of course people that she could easily blame saying oh they had like so people with like more like bad like

or like not bad past but like who had criminal histories a lot of them who had uh you know probably not great altered state of mind mutations to public society exactly and so there was a lot of of stuff she could turn on other people um but so they actually had come back for this dig and so so not smooth and the investigator like said this himself he was like she said oh do you mind if i like head down the street to grab something from a friend's house or something did she just bolt she fucking pieced she just ran off in her little heels her little moo moo they like showed her little heels and she was like all dressed to the nines and just like waltz right out the front door and then it was right after that they discovered the first body and they were like so wait where is she and they were like uh-oh oh boy we let her and she asked she's like do you mind if i head down the street and then just peaced yikes yikes

um so the first bodies they did find are of Bert Montoya. You know Bert, the one that she treated like a son who had struggled with schizophrenia. Sure. And then Betty Palmer were also discovered. Betty was found with her head and limbs removed. Torso. Yeah, I heard it. My least favorite thing. Head and limbs. So it was just the midsection. Just the torso. Yeah. I heard it. My least favorite thing. Head and limbs,

so it was just the midsection. Just the torso, yeah. And I will also add, they, to this day, have never found them. And they have looked. They dug under the porch, they dug under the whole property, and the lead detective says, to this day, it still baffles him and haunts

him that they couldn't find the rest of her body. Whoa. It's also also at this point okay well i'll get to that i'm skipping ahead they found seven bodies buried in her yard dorothy miller 64 benjamin fink were found in addition to the previously mentioned who vanished uh from her care finally they are able to connect gilmouth the one in the shoddy right right the red truck red pickup yeah it suddenly makes sense that uh that this is connected so they finally are able to connect him to this case and the case is reopened and so she like i said just kind of peaced out one of her tenants john mccauley uh is arrested and he uh he's actually not formally arrested he's taken in for questioning because they're like how could this small woman you actually hear the interview she's like i'm how could i carry a 250 pound body like burt was 250

pounds and six feet tall she's like look at me how could i carry them and so they're like yes someone must be working with her they because they said, for example, the homicide lieutenant said, we do not believe that this could have been done solely by herself. We know she's had people help her dig the holes. So they had arrested him or at least taken him in. I don't know that he was officially arrested. But questioned. He was questioned.

And he was let go because there was no proof they had that he had done anything wrong and i think a lot of times she had these people doing chores for her but they maybe didn't necessarily know the full extent keep everyone kind of blind yeah the situation exactly and then if maybe they knew too much like bert for example started feeling uncomfortable in the home and was trying to leave and actually left a few times and she brought him back and and then he ended up dying so they think like he knew too much basically um so the autopsies revealed uh that the all the bodies had like traces of sleeping pills in them but not enough to kill them but enough to kind of incapacitate them okay so they're like maybe easier to drag or yeah perhaps and and actually possibly one of the worst things uh to torture them while they're

alive no is that they think some of these people were buried alive yeah which is my worst fear in the whole world um and so for example uh leona who i'd mentioned earlier who had vanished she's one of the first people to vanish her body had been found in a way where her legs had kicked up and packed the dirt in inside the space she was buried in i know it's really bad um and so they think they were like incapacitated with sleeping pills and made them easier to move. Or maybe she tried to smother them and they just couldn't. They hadn't died all the way. Yeah.

And when they actually went into the home originally to like look around, you know, this horrific smell, they went into one of the bedrooms and they lifted the carpet. The lead detective guy lifted the carpet and he said it was like the most repulsive putrefied smell and he said it was a smell of body fluids he's like i know the smell of putrefied body fluids and that's what it was and so they kind of what they pieced together was that it was like a crime of opportunity so she would decide to kill somebody whenever and then if it was not the right time if she didn't have someone to help her if she didn't want she would leave the body sometimes up to weeks in this spot and then the hardwood floor underneath would just soak in all of the body i know it's horrifying horrifying so it's just rotting wood filled with yes rotting fluids

correct and and so the fact that they discover this underneath the carpet in this one room which they called the killing room fun uh yeah uh then when they dug open the graves a lot of them had no smell whatsoever of decomp so they were like they probably mostly decomposed in the room and then she would bury them afterward which is why obviously the house reeked so freaking bad people were like breathing that in while they were sleeping yes the neighbor said apparently the neighbors every time they turn on the air conditioning it would suck right into the house so they would have to they were like we basically lived outside like we would just be outside all summer because he's like we couldn't turn on the ac it would like take all that air and bring it into our home which like knowing afterward oh you must have thrown up knowing

what you had been smelling oh yeah horrifying and it's awful because i mean the woman who worked in the family that or sorry a member of the family who had was renting the house to her was like it's awful but we would show up and smell it and she would be like you know a lot of them don't really follow basic hygiene and so everyone just assumed like it was the fault of these men and women who couldn't take care of themselves also like i am not in a position to know the experience of someone who suffers from addiction but like i imagine that that scenario must really like would want anyone to like want to take a drink or like to like i'm sure it was like very triggering exacerbate it probably wouldn't help right it's not like it's like definitely like an anxiety and stress induced environment now that you know what you've been breathing in yeah like

how like now it's just like additional things you have to like oh for sure control yourself i mean at the very least it's added stressors and a very uncomfortable living environment especially when the person running the house makes you get up at five if or else you can't eat you know right i mean that alone starve you yeah so there's find out you're breathing in human oh god liquid when he said putrefied body fluids i almost threw up in my mouth um yeah so they found this these sleeping pills they were her prescriptions so they were not the prescriptions of the people in the boarding house leading them to believe she was using her own prescription on these tenants that had died so this is the wildest thing this is how i mean it's not all of that was the wildest

thing but one of the wildest elements is how she was caught okay because remember she had run away sure what she had done basically she just scooted off she just birded away bird scooter no so she what she had done is she had taken a car she was in sacramento she had driven like a few hours south and then got a bus to la to kind of reroute herself so that they couldn't find her. When she got to L.A., she literally could not control herself. So she just continued to do this fun play. Wow. Yep. She didn't even hide.

She went to a bar using the name Donna Johansson, which is interesting because I think that was the name of her ex. Remember? Yeah, Axel. Johansson. Yeah. So Donna Johansson. And she went to the Royal Viking viking hotel in downtown los angeles

now this is november of 88 and there's this statewide manhunt going on uh as directed by the fbi at this point this is like national news and she goes to a bar and she finds she like she knows how to like seek out these people she finds this guy who's like older kind of vulnerable who falls for her little charm who she can tell is like has pension payments that she can take advantage of and so he really likes her he's like totally charmed by her and they kind of become friends and she's like oh like maybe you can room at my place and uh you can pay me rent and then he turns on the tv and sees her he's like holy shit that's donna johansson oof but it's not it's dorothea puente so he calls police and is like yo i just befriended this person who's apparently also trying to murder me um and so he thank god recognized her before she could do anything. Imagine the feeling of knowing what was about to happen in like five minutes.

How horrific, right? Like she was fully about to take advantage of him. So she is arrested, thank God, and taken to trial. So the pretrial begins April 1990. And on June 19th, the judge finds that Dorothy Puente will stand trial for nine counts of murder. February 9th 1993 so this has been three years almost uh they've had to change venue there's been a couple delays finally the trial begins july 15th 1993 a couple months later they had brought in 153 witnesses

and 3 500 documented pieces of evidence and, the case goes to the jury. So the jury sends a note to the judge on August 2nd saying they are deadlocked on all nine counts. So the judge, instead of calling a mistrial, is like, no, go back in there and try again. So they go back in, they try again. Finally, 24 days later, on August 26th, the jury reaches a verdict. They find her guilty for the crime of murder in the second degree in the case of Leona Carpenter, guilty of murder in the first degree in the case of Dorothy Miller, guilty for the crime of murder in the first degree in the case of Ben Fink, who, by he had a swastika tattoo. And there's debate as to why that is the case. But that's how they identified his body.

So that helped kind of solidify that he had been murdered and buried in the garden. And then additionally, allegation under special circumstances found that Dorothea had committed multiple murders. So the remaining six that they could not agree on were listed as mistrial. OK. But she had been found guilty of three of them on were listed as mistrial. Okay. But she had been found guilty of three of them, of three of the nine. Right. Got it. Which, you know, is at least enough.

Better than nothing, I guess. Nothing, right. At least enough to put her away. So December 11th, 93, Judge Vargas handed down his sentence. And she, by law at this point, was sentenced to life in prison. And in 2011, she died of natural causes in jail. And I have one final fact that takes a quick right turn from all of this. Okay.

And this is also, weirdly, a connection that I have to this case. Very, very limited. Huh. But somewhat. So in 2004. You met her in a glass chamber ice chamber in austin texas cryo chamber and there she was she actually is the minnesota iceman that checks out wait now it all makes sense um so in 2004 dorothea had this pen pal because like which fucking serial murderer

does not have a pen pal at this point uh his name is shane bugby and he published a book called cooking with a serial killer which contained 50 of dorothea's recipes and is available on amazon i have signed copy by her yeah shut up because somebody had given this to us at a live show wow like years like two years ago i think somebody gave this to me at a live show get out yeah and so she had signed it and i remember looking at it like i don't know if i want to touch this i feel like it has bad she's held it yeah well yeah yeah so i don't think feel super great about that but that was kind of a wild like oh yeah i have that book strange it's here yeah it's somewhere here i know wow we gotta we gotta pull that thing out make a couple couple chicken wings or something.

Although I am glad to learn more about the case and know that she wasn't like cooking with human or something. Like that could have ended much worse. Could have been a lot worse, yeah. Still bad. It is still bad. And normally that would be the end. But I have one little last bit for you, which is that her house is hella haunted. Well, wow.

And not surprised. I think that's why I was confused because a lot of the different episodes I watched framed the house as they put it as like one house. And I don't know if it was like two or three houses overall. But the house that these last several nine murders, at least, took place in is now considered an extremely haunted location. And I had the pleasure of watching a little GA, a little Ghost Adventures. Of course you did.

You watched a little Bagel Bites. Big Bagel Bites night for me last night. And I got to say, I really like this episode. I know. They are really good. The newer ones I don't love. I think they're a little too in your face. This one is several years older and it's he's just a lot

more chill like he didn't hype up his own hype up it's so much less in your face um which you know whatever but i really enjoyed it and it scared the absolute shit out of me to the point that i had to watch um the good place afterward the one about heaven and hell and demons yeah i don't know troubling my brain is troubled uh so i will say if you guys want to watch it i really recommend it it was very good um and they do give a little background and the same guy the lead investigator who pulled out the femur bone is in is in the episode he talks about he's like and then i hit a tree root and i went no i've heard this story and you should have seen zach like whoa with the femur anyway so i wanted to add um that now the house has signs like one of them says trespassers will be drugged and buried in the yard oh shit they clearly lean into this pretty hard

sure um there's also a lot of creepy signs that say like she did it it's not me the house's fault and i'm like it's all pretty creepy. So they talked about how the leathery material is human skin and all that stuff. Now they talked about something that I had not heard of, which I think is so fascinating. And I started reading into it. Do you know about the stone tape theory? Oh, not enough to riff with you, but I have heard of it. It's super fascinating because I... I think I was planning on doing a whole story on it. So it's the idea that...

That would be really interesting. It's basically the idea that ghosts and hauntings are analogous to tape recordings and that... Here, I'm just going to read it and that mental impressions during emotional or traumatic events can be projected in the form of energy and quote-unquote recorded onto rocks and other solid items and then replayed under certain conditions so the idea is basically in this context is that the wood floor underneath like where the body said decomposed is they kept the wood floor that's the same floor they never replaced it jesus and so uh so it's still covered and it still has absorbed a bunch of really awful fluids and stuff. Yes.

The putrefied fluids were in the and the stairs are the original stairs where the bodies had originally been dragged down. And so kind of Zach brought it up as like, oh, if you think about the stone tape theory, the idea is like this. All these solid objects have like absorbed this trauma to them yeah and can now like project it and replay it essentially so i thought that was super interesting and another creepy thing they mentioned was that apparently things calmed down when she was arrested and put in jail for like those many years that she was in jail okay and then apparently the year she died things just went like crazy it's like she went back home. Right. You just gave me chills. Thank you. And the woman who lived there, her name's Peggy Holmes.

She's in her 90s. And she talked to Zach early in the episode. And she said she she's like, oh, after I talked to you like a week and a half ago, things started picking up. And he's like, what do you mean? He's like, and she said, after I talked to you the night after, i woke up in the middle of the night and dorothea was standing in my room good night and he was like wait what and he's like after talking to me and she's like yeah after i called you guys and explained the whole story of the house and how i feel like she's i sense her presence uh then i woke up and she was standing there and i was like and this is a good episode

guys seriously watch it um and she was basically saying like she was standing there in a yellow dress with big black stains all over it like dried blood yeah or something or yeah just dark petrified liquids or petrified body fluids and she said she was smiling but not with her eyes and that was how people always described her as like she always seemed so happy-go-lucky but like she was so sinister and nefarious yeah um and so she she said after that in the last week and a half she's like this is the first time ever since living here i've started feeling like i'm being pushed like when i'm on the stairs like when i'm walking down the hallway i keep feeling like the second you you mentioned Zach, spirits go all bananas.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, that seems to be the case. And so the first thing that happens is they have this recorder and they're asking her, like, well, what would you want to ask her if you could ask her something? And she said, why are you here and why me? And then they played it back like five minutes later and you can literally hear it go, why

are you here? And then you hear, to die. And then you hear, why me? And it played it back like five minutes later and you can literally hear it go why are you here and then you hear to die and then you hear why me and it just says you're dead what it's so creepy like you would have been the next victim if i could have done something yeah like i'm here to fucking get rid of you too this is my house so of course at this point zach is like we want to banish your ass out of this house. Direct quote. Direct quote. Said it from his biceps only. It was tattooed. He just flexed and we all saw it. It danced. He made it dance.

Listen, I love the episode. I'm not going to stop making fun of it. Okay. They also brought in this couple who I would love for you to do a story on too someday. Their names are Michael and Marty Perry. Do you know them? I don't think, I've never heard of them before, but. Are they psychics?

They're psychics. Yes. They're psychics and I believe they're a couple uh and basically what they i think i know who they are yeah um but i think so are they like a couple that zach regularly has on the show probably i don't watch it did one of them was the woman uh like have like more like dark features like brown hair brown eyes kind of like a looked like she was from Jersey? She was blonde, I think. But maybe she dyed it?

I don't know. There's one psychic couple that he always had on his show that actually you should cover. Were they scam artists? No. They were murdered? The husband murdered the wife. Oh, fuck. After being on many episodes together

of ghost adventures holy shit like zach knew them very well like they were like very good friends of his i'm just saying if you wanted like the ultra paranormal true crime story oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god yeah ghost adventures couple mark and oh debbie okay it wasn't okay what was the ones i said? You said Michael or Michael and Marty. Oh, my God. I remember. That's terrifying. Yeah.

It was really bad. Okay. So now we both have a story. Great. We should do a double psychic episode. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. That's. Wow. Okay. Chilling. Horrifying. I'm so sorry about that. Yeah.

I did not know. I thought you were going to talk about them. And then you're like, you should cover them. And I was like, you don't even know. That's your job, actually. You don't even know like christine you don't know what you're saying which usually i don't but yeah sorry the couple mike and marty yeah so mike and marty are this couple and what they do it's like really interesting so she'll be in another room and she'll draw she's like i get things as drawings and he will he will communicate and then they will

like match up oh and see compare their notes and it is pretty wild i gotta say so what they did he's like we want we flew them into sacramento did not tell them anything about where they were going they literally blindfolded them and walked them into the house so they wouldn't see anything like had them blindfolded in the car all of it they walked them in there and they said okay we're not going to tell you where we are but we just want you to do kind of a like a scan an assessment right and so he starts walking around um oh my god goose cam he starts walking around and he's like huh and he's kind of like weirded out in the kitchen he's like what what's going on he's like i just feel like this is wrong he's like what do

you mean he's like this setup is wrong he's like why and he's like there should be a wall here and it's just like really weird there's like the refrigerator is like four feet in front of me he's like what do you mean he's like this setup is wrong he's like why and he's like there should be a wall here and it's just like really weird there's like the refrigerator is like four feet in front of me he's like there should be a wall here and they're like okay and he kind of keeps wandering around and he's like they're like is there anyone you're connecting to and he's like yeah i'm seeing it through his eyes he's like this huge man he's really tall he's like really massive and i'm getting the letters ab and so they're like like zach's face is going like oh my god oh my god and uh he's like there's also a lady but she's standing way back and she refuses to come near me and does not want me to be here and does not want to communicate and he's like

and i think this guy was murdered and so i'm like holy shit so i'm listening and ab and i'm thinking okay ab like the guy's name was bert who his real name was alberto shut up so he's like i can't tell if his name starts with an a or a b and it was alberto slash bert was like his nickname alberto and so then they bring in this lead detective and they're like hey has anything changed about this house and he's like well yeah they did some remodeling there used to be a wall right here and i just let everyone in the room was like what it scared the shit out of me i was like holy hell like holy hell and then and then oh god the woman is drawing in the other room she's like i don't know i picked up a couple people mostly men but then like this

older woman and she's like kind of doing this weird smirk and they show it to the woman who lives there peggy and she's like she what did she say she said it's something like well sorry to say that's her and she's like so matter of fact she literally looked at it and she's like and it had the same curls and everything in the glasses and she's like she's like see she's smiling but not with her eyes no it was just the creepiest fucking thing and so anyway i just loved it so much it was so creepy and then of course there's this whole thing where zach falls out of a bed and says i'm drugged and i was like okay i can't watch this anymore but the rest of it was really good and really creepy.

And her house looks hella haunted. And I'm actually terrified. And they used a spirit box, the one that has all the names that come up. Oh, the obelisk. Sorry, the obelisk, yeah. And apparently they kept getting the word 15 because they said, oh, are you the victims? They kept saying 15, 15, but there were only nine bodies found. And so they were like, and they got uh six additional names and they were like oh my god maybe these are the six additional

victims that nobody knows about wow because it adds up to 15 right and they kept getting 15 on two different ones in different parts of the crazy and then they asked to betty like where are your arms and your head like where's the rest of your body and she kept she wrote or it said east east and they kept getting east and then it said dig and then it said cement and I was like I'm out of here and that was where they just threw cement down right the concrete over the roses it was just beyond me I I just was like so horrified and they never found her body parts so who's to say but anyway that was a long one i am so sorry but i just i started it a couple weeks ago and went

this is a lot this is a lot more than i thought i thought it was gonna be a pretty basic story but then with the ghost stuff right and all this bullshit like ended up being longer than expected but i have had a quite a few requests of that and now that we're going to sacrament i thought i mean that was a good one and maybe that's where you go when you're going early oh great i can't wait now i have something weird to do there's even a bunny statue outside of a full-grown man in like a bunny costume kind of like donnie darko and zach literally walked up and was like okay guys first i have to check if like there's a person in there and there like wasn't but it just stands outside the house anyway super creepy sorry so that was my hull along story i'm so sorry about how long that was but thank you guys for enduring that thank you

both of those uh i guess that's it i mean you know where to find us and that's why i drink.com and we're traveling all over the place so come see us live please buy tickets we would like to have as many sold out shows as possible so we can brag to our moms, so they can brag to our grandparents. Yeah, that's all we want. Okay, thank you. Thank you. And that's why we drink.