And That's Why We Drink - E161 Bald Anchovies and the Golden Birds

Episode Date: March 1, 2020

Gather 'round all our little anchovies, are you ready for some stories?! Well, we may or may not have to Google ourselves first. This week Em brings us the history of the legendary Thunderbird and Christine covers the disturbing cold case of the murder of Dorothy Jane Scott. And don't forget to play this episode in reverse to hear a very special satanic message (just kidding, we think)... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Go to Felix GrayGlasses.com/DRINK and get a pair of Blue Light glasses from the pros! Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE, when you go to ZipRecruiter.com/DRINK!Go to Rothys.com/DRINK to get your new favorite flats!Go to THIRD LOVE.com/DRINK now to find your perfect-fitting bra… and get 15% off your firstpurchase!

You're gonna what, be complimented? You called it fuzzy. I could call it worse. I'd be grateful. Oh yeah? Yeah. Do it. No, I don't wanna. Alright, hello everyone. We are talking about our butts.

Well, we're talking about Christine's butt specifically. Actually, we were talking about Gio's butt and then I compared his butt to Christine's butt. And now it's turned into only Christine's butt. Now it's turned into real awkwardness for you. So I'm so sorry. Let's keep doing it. Never mind. Let's not. Welcome, everyone, to our show where we talk about murder. And butts.

Always. Just like Tina Belcher. Yeah. How are you? Oh, I'm okay uh i'm pretty good i wanted to say one quick thing is that um yes we now know that jim henson was involved in sesame street thank you for telling us a lot of people yelled at us about that i'm sorry i don't even remember what we said probably no it was me because i was talking about uh our the design on our shirts oh sure jim henson and then i was like are we muppets and then we

were like no and then we were like i'm elmo and you're kermit and then someone sent that really awful horrendous picture around the intersphere oh i love it uh yes i will say thank you for correcting us but now we know yes i appreciate it um anyway how are you um good i'm good great i'm leaving tomorrow for maine yes we're going to maine for some lobster some i don't like lobster so don't you like it so why would i that's true we don't like the same thing for those of you who i don't know who i've yelled at this i don't know who i've yelled this too so i'm just gonna keep screaming it until i know i've covered all my bases but everything christine does not like to eat I like to eat everything I do I do not like to eat Christine loves so it's usually the other way around because there's barely anything I don't like to eat I will

literally eat pretty much everything in this world most of the time if Christine says oh let's get dinner here they have a delicious blank I will not order that except for I don't ever say that because I know better in the beginning i think that's how things went though i remember like oh i don't know how to tell her one of the first night oh you knew you you told me real quick one of the first nights you came over blaze and i made pizza homemade pizza and there were anchovies on it i didn't need to say anything let's be clear you should have known i should have hey here's someone i don't really know their food preferences yet let's make anchovy pizza you You literally walked in and said, oh, what are you making? We didn't even offer it to you.

You were just like, that's your first and second problem. You went gross. I'm going to order my own food. We went, OK, welcome to our home. And that's how our friendship has been ever since. Anyway, so speaking of anchovies. What? Speaking of anchovies, let's hear it. I've updated Patreon. That's my segue. That's my segue to all of our little anchovies, let's hear it. I've updated Patreon. That's my segue. That's my segue. To all of our little anchovies out there.

To all of our yummy little anchovies. I love that. I've updated. Oh, I wanted to say, too, I forgot to mention. I feel really bad about it that last week. So I did Dorothea Puente. And that was sent in on Instagram close friends by Autumn Beth. And I, like, forgot to give them credit for it so i apologize um but speaking of patreon and anchovies uh i just wanted to point

out i spent a long time on it so i'm gonna yell it into your ears but oh yeah christine worked very very hard i reorganized the entire patreon because i wanted to make sure i found there was content from 2017 that we had made that like blooper reels and things that were just buried under like hundreds of posts and so i was like how do we make this accessible to new patrons and so i reorganized it there's like i made a youtube playlist of every unlisted youtube video that like you can't access unless you're a patron so on our youtube channel um you can find that if you are a patron um and you can uh i've pulled out all our old blooper reels and they are wild m i'm gonna show them to you later.

Great. There's one of you just screaming in Chio. Sounds right. There's one of you seeing a ghost dog in my old apartment. It's a lot of fun stuff. Check's out. A lot of spilling wine, a lot of yelling at each other. But thank you for organizing that because you definitely put a lot of work into it.

Oh my God. Sorry. I'm proud of you. I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm proud of us because I listen to all the old content. I was like, like oh my gosh we should like reintroduce this because it's so much fun um and so i found so i found our first ever birthday exchange which apparently we turn into like a 45 minute episode that sounds right on patreon and it's so funny because we were like just gushing over one another's like birthday

gifts and it was so fun you you had invited me to my first ever escape room that was like my present oh i do remember that yeah and it was super fun um and oh in that one i we introduced the thanksgiving song for the first time in that was when on patreon which i didn't even know also i'm seeing the full circle now of the point you made about like your first birthday i took you to an escape room and then for christmas i literally just made you one exactly i see the climb now and now there's a lemon escape room on Patreon anyway there's also a bonus episode I found where we tell our own scary stories like I don't remember doing these things I truly you could tell me pretty much anything happened in the last two years and I'd be like okay oh my god there's one where we played strip poker and we just put it on Patreon first the first half of

that sentence I was like I don't know if that's a joke. Do I laugh? Or do I go? Oh, yeah, I remember that. Anyway, so I organize also at the top of Patreon. Now, if you're a patron, you can click like the categories. There's like live streams, there's a bonus episodes, there's blooper reels, all that. So if you are a patron, I want to make sure you guys have access to all that stuff. So that's my little spiel. Please go watch all the things we blacked out from doing, apparently. Yeah, come on, my little anchovies. Also, if you look far enough, I know enough of you fucking Google me with my long hair. I know y'all are trying to fucking find that.

First of all, rude. Second of all, I fucking know because Google tells me what people look up. Google tells us the weird shit you guys Google. Third of all, if you are that desperate to see me with long hair, if you look far back, I'm sure there's a video of with me like oh i don't know if we did videos back then we didn't have we didn't have fancy fucking phones back then we had a microphone but when we started i did have long hair yikes yeah but you put it all always in like you're under your hat so many things have changed i know i didn't even see it though when you had long hair you put it under your hat

meanwhile i'm currently in a hat because i got a haircut yesterday and my hair is like the shortest it's ever been and i kind of hate it. You finally know what it's like to have a bald spot like me. Thank God. Do you know how long I wanted a full bald spot on my entire head? Okay. Speaking of bald spots, back to Patreon real quick. We have a patron of the week named Brady. Our favorite little bald spot. Our favorite

little bald spot anchovy. A bald anchovy. That probably sounds like something gross. I'm sorry. Brady D. Brady Dizon. I don't know if I'm supposed to say their last name too gross. I'm sorry. Brady D. Brady Dizon. I don't know if I'm supposed to say their last name too late. Hello, Brady. Thank you so much for being a patron. We appreciate your support.

Yes. Hopefully you can go watch or hear content on Patreon now. You can hear Em's long hair and my bald spot. You can hear my long hair blowing in the wind probably. No, you can't. Blowing in the wind of my old ass tiny apartment. Yeah. The longest it ever was, by the way.

It was always up because I hated it then. I hate it it was under a hat everyone go on youtube right now watch how bald my my head is that's what you should be looking at oh for this episode for this episode also you won't see anything because i'm wearing a hat okay a hat is my trademark let's be clear did you not know that after three years i can't believe people google you with long hair that's so gross weird oh it is gross i know you were gonna say google weirder shit but still it's weird to think people google shit about us i hated what i looked like then so if you are contributing to the google search of my long hair please stop i feel like it's when people google like so and so like uh without makeup or whatever like those like really rude ones where they try to find celebrities and like not their finest hour or something you know my my top five by the way because i have googled myself and i

check every now and then truly just to see if the long hair one is gone and it never is oh great m schultz long hair m schultz linda which my mother cannot be more proud of m schultz allison m schultz net worth which by the way is like a hot zero dollars so i don't know what people are looking i found mine like listed somewhere and it said 350 and i said wow they're spot on that's incredible how did they know and then uh i think it's m schultz geo mine's just oh yeah like everyone but you mine's just like m schultz or m schultz christine in love with them oh my god question mark a long hair uh mine bald spot no i just says christine she for a brother oh steve she for blaze christine g for wedding pictures that's a big one that's precious i know that's really sweet christine g for geo uh and like

nothing exciting i don't think um age husband birthday age as old as the crypt podcast let that be the first answer on google from i love it oh my god oh my god i just googled m oh my god there's new ones hold on guys no there's i just googled m schultz i've typed it in the auto auto filled here we go m schultz wikipedia which fuck you guys everyone assuming you have what i don't also someone make me a wikipedia i know where's our wikipedia uh m schultz clown okay m schultz age m schultz pronouns okay that's better than long hair that's better than long hair m schultz props wow these are interesting interesting and m schultz as zach bagans shut the i'm not kidding

look at my screen i'm not even making that up why is that one of the things people look at mine so normal it's just like age brother maybe hold on i'm gonna look up on my computer because maybe it'll be different maybe hang on okay you guys are i'm so sorry sheifer christine sheifer oh wait christine sheifer schultz christine sheifer podcast christine sheifer wedding christine she for age with christine she for brother christine she for m schultz, Christine Schieffer Husband, Christine Schieffer Birthday. Yeah, yours. I hit a space.

It doesn't change anything. No. Yeah. So, yeah, mine are pretty boring. Yours seem very interesting. Oh, but if you click Christine Schieffer M. Schultz, there's a slew of pictures of us. We are just darn cute. We have gems, huh?

Oh, yeah, yeah. I love it. Okay. Anyway, guys, sorry. That did not mean to. I'm so sorry. That sounded wildly vain the last five minutes. We keep keep doing this and it's more just that we find it hysterical i just meant stop looking up pictures of me with long hair but then it turned into me

googling myself so yeah whoops i feel like most of our hangout sessions include us googling ourselves and like you know what i really do want a wikipedia one day i am going to put that out there that's like on our vision board i think we put it on a plastic past vision board and it hasn't happened yet wikipedia 2020 you know we are my name's in there but once and it's listed as like christine schieffer covered this story some oh really yeah it's in a footnote i got um i got listed on my school's notable alum i sure didn't and well then uh high school or college college oh. Oh, what? And then and I checked like two weeks later and it was gone. So I was like, oh, well, that was no. Do you think so?

Oh, wait, was it on Wikipedia? Yeah. So someone literally just added it and someone added it and then someone else deleted it. No. Yeah. Wow. Oh, OK. Yeah.

I was going to say I'm jealous, but people who went to American are like Judge Judy. So I don't hope to compete with her ever. I actually. And like some presidents. Yeah. We have some politicians. Yeah. The coolest people, I think, to come out of CNU, though, are me and then the guy who created the truly.

No, we're a small school. We're a small school. Wow. Talk about being vain. You're like, the coolest people are me. And that's me, me, me. But no, there's a guy, Randall Monroe. He he created the comic, the XKCD.

If you look them, it's like a stick figure comic oh you've shown me this yeah yeah and he's made a bunch of books he also came from cnu well i want to be as cool as him one day i think jul what's her name juliana ransick or whatever went to my school you know him and uh goldie hahn too where did zach bagans go because did he if you went to the same school as zach bagans went to you should immediately be put on now i fucking see what people are googling about zach bagans and it's like dating girlfriend can you imagine if on google it said zach bagans and m schultz or zach bagans and christine schieffer or zach bagans and then that's why we drink to be fair you are now listed on google as m schultz with zach bagans name next to it that's pretty cool moving on to and that's why we drank.

Oh, my God. So sorry. We're going to get sued really soon by that guy, by the way. Or by somebody, by one of you. I don't know. Someone's going to sue us pretty soon. It's funny until all of a sudden we get a literal lawsuit sent to us. And then we just start crying.

We don't know what to do. And then all of a sudden we will, for some reason, stop talking about him 100% of the time. Yikes. Okay. Okay. Let's try and tell a story because we've definitely done this for 15 minutes. Oh, God.

Sorry, y'all. Oh, we're on Urban Dictionary. Go away. Okay. We as a team? You and me? And that's where your drink is. Oh, I didn't know if it was like-

Go away. Christine and Em. Trying to make you feel better. With Urban Dictionary, now I feel like it's a weird sex thing. It probably is. I didn't read the- The definition's in there. I don't want to know what it says.

It probably says like shitty podcast where they only talk about themselves all the time shitty two shitty people that google themselves okay so i'm gonna try to quickly just get let's go get through this okay so i am covering another cryptid this is one that i wanted to cover since i covered the bridgewater triangle okay i love bridgewater triangle that was a great love a good bridgewater triangle and i said i would cover this back then put it on hold now we're back in the game oh i think i might know what it is say it uh thunderbird yes no i guessed it i'm surprised did you look at my notes no no because um that was the one where i was like i've heard about those and then you said i'll cover it someday well

today's the only creature i really remember except those weird little ones that you already covered the puck wedgies oh we're also from that right yes bridgewater okay because i remember like i've heard on jim harold a lot of people call in with thunderbird stories so i don't know much about oh i wish i knew that before i did these notes no but it's written them up yeah but you can't like i don't think you can search through the yeah you have to listen to all of them yeah okay so yes i'm covering the thunderbirds okay wow the first time i've literally ever guessed your story it's a wild it's a wild day uh so what is a thunderbird some like christine may ask i do what is it uh it is a giant bird

with a pointed beak and razor sharp talons with a wingspan of on average 15 to 20 feet oh dear god and it is known amongst specifically different uh native tribes it is sometimes seen as a deity i think for the most part it is um otherwise it's just um a creature in their uh in their stories that they tell um they are apparently so large that some of the northwestern tribes like quileute um they say that this bird is so big it can carry lakes on its back whoa and it can block out the sun when it flies by and it can carry whales and its talons so like a whale in in a lake a whale like its little toes are just grabbing it oh and its talent oh i see yeah imagine like scooping something up with your toes, but it's the size of a whale. By the blowhole? That's exactly it. Just one little dip. Disgusting.

Gross. So apparently when its strong wings flap together, they actually create the sound of thunder. So that's why they're called thunderbirds. Oh, okay. Makes sense. And lightning comes from their eyes. Sure it does. Of course. So it's like Thor as a bird. Sure.

It's a Thor bird instead of a thunderbird okay sure yeah let's appropriate that into the marvel verse marvel verse i apologize to anyone i'm offending me i want to i want to make that clear only me uh so typically they are seen right before a severe thunderstorm and most often they are seen in the spring and summer months which makes sense because it's also usually when the most storms are. In native traditions, thunderbirds are associated with both life and death. And if you are a native, and I'm saying this wrong, please correct me. I tried.

If I'm offending you, I'm certainly not trying to. So they are associated with both life and death. And they come around in the spring usually and bring the rain, which is like their version of creating life because they're helping nourish plants um they also bring storms and destruction though so they have the power to give us rain but they also have the power to give us storms and if the lightning strikes somewhere a fire could start so they're known for like life and death because they can create and destroy um many sense. Many legends say that the Thunderbird, the Thunderbirds are here to protect us, but they also will deal out harsh punishments if they feel like you are morally askew. Oh, I don't know anything about that. We're so morally not askew.

We're morally skew well there's actually there's one story where i guess a thunderbird killed a whale for food and then a whole village found the whale and ate ate the whale before the thunderbird could and he was so mad that they stole his food which this sounds like me if i were a mythical creature he turned the entire village into stone like people included oh shit like he was like you'll just be rocks for the rest of your life i know that i'm supposed to use water to do this but i'm just gonna turn you into rocks it's like bada bing bada stone okay oh man uh some say that there was a thunderbird who uh fought a big like enormous killer whale at one point it wasn't a killer whale it was uh some other name um but it's apparently the ancestor of the killer whale

oh and when the two of these creatures fought they destroyed a lot of the land in the nearby area knocking down a lot of trees and causing a lot of destruction but eventually the thunderbird allowed the like let the whale escape and that's why we have killer whales today is one of the stories i read oh i see um they're also those seen as benevolent nature spirits that will sometimes assist uh tribes with finding food during periods of famine. As, quote, spirits of the sky, they are links between the spirit world and the physical world, so they're considered sacred. They were created by, I hope I'm saying this right, Nanabazo, which is one of the spirits in a lot of native stories in the story of creation.

So Nanabazo created the thunderbird to fight underwater creatures and to protect humans against evil spirits so it's known to specifically protect us from underwater spirits because since it kind of rules the sky its natural enemy would be what's in the water right okay a little yin and yang there sure sure so apparently they are also known as wak wakanyan tanka uh the great thunderbird and uh this originates from one of the seven western tribes known as the brule i never know how to say this tribe sweet sue sue okay sorry guys i'm really trying over here uh and a sioux medicine man named john fire lame deer he recalls the uh the story of the thunderbird um he talked about in 1969 saying that the thunderbird lives on top of a mountain in the black hills um although he's probably moved away at this point

um because a lot of white people have just like come in and like ruin the land oh we would never listen you're complaining about white people as you fucking should, by the way. We would never do such a thing. What are you talking about? Destroying land and getting in the way of natives? Taking things that don't belong to us. That sounds absurd. Sounds like nothing like us.

So he thinks that the Thunderbird was like goodbye and fucking flew away. Don't blame him. Fair. So this is a quote from him about the the thunderbird his voice is the great thunderclap and the smaller rolling thunders that follow his booming shouts or the cries of his children oh so you're like the big one and there's the echo and those are all of his little kitties oh that's cute they're like calling out after him yeah like echoing what he says there are apparently four large old Thunderbirds, like the OG Thunderbirds.

Okay. Like the Golden Girls, but like Thunderbirds. Yes. Blanche, obviously the best. Golden Birds. Jesus. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, guys.

The Thundergolds. Uh, so. What? You're right. I like the Golden Birds better. Thank you. Uh, so there's one in each cardinal direction. So the one in the West apparently is black.

The one in the North is red. The one in the East is yellow. So the one in the west apparently is black. The one in the north is red. The one in the east is yellow. And the one in the south is white. Oh. And so Lame Deer, again, this is the same conversation in 1969. Lame Deer says, from time to time, a holy man catches a glimpse of a thunderbird in his dreams, but always only a part of it. No one ever sees the thunderbird as a whole, not even in a vision. Wow. So the way we think a thunderbird looks is pieced together from many dreams and visions combined oh i just got

goose cam about that super cool that's fascinating that like over time there have only been pieces that come up in visions even yes wow so remember that comment later i'm going to get back to that okay so there's different information told uh about the Thunderbird based on different tribes. Some of this, to my understanding, to the best of my very ignorant understanding, is that a lot of this kind of overlaps. But based on the tribe, there's little small details that are different. Got it. I don't think they're like completely different stories based on whatever tribe you're from. Okay. So in one tribe, Menem mini the mena mini tribe thunderbirds

live on a mountain that floats in the sky they control the elements and they are highly respected by these people that seems to be an over an overarching theme and the ojibwe ojibwe i'm so sorry i'm sorry fuck i'm like such a shitty white person um Jesus Christ. It's not you. It's me. Let's just blame Houdini again. Let's just blame white people as we should really start doing all the time. Lordy. So the Thunderbirds were punished. The Thunderbirds would punish humans who broke moral rules.

Like I said, they were said to fight underwater spirits through the springtime until migration, specifically. Oh. And then they would come back because apparently that's when all the underwater spirits would kind of cool off for a while. Sure. The Winnebago tribe says that the Thunderbirds would also grant people powers. So any man who had a vision of a Thunderbird during fasting would become a mighty war chief. Wow. The Sioux tribe say that they protect us from reptilian monsters.

Okay. war chief wow uh the sioux tribes say that they protect us from reptilian monsters okay the arapaho tribe says that the thunderbird is actually a summer bird only and it's opposing it's the opposing bird to the white owl which represents winter oh interesting okay um the algonquin uh tribe says the thunderbirds were ancestors of the human race actually and they were involved in the creation of the universe they rule the upper world and they are specifically geared at always protecting us from the great horned serpent which actually i think was also in the bridgewater triangle oh i don't remember but you're probably right um and then the shawnee tribe says that thunderbirds could change its appearance essentially shapeshifters um they appeared specifically as little boys oh interesting

but you could identify if it was actually a little boy or a shapeshifting thunderbird because the thunderbirds could only speak backwards oh god so if a little boy's just screaming in reverse you know it's not a little boy oh my god have you ever tried playing songs backwards like when you're little we always thought there was like secret back masking yeah demonic messages i actually have that on my list of stories to cover really yeah yeah we would upload like um i don't know the grateful dead or like the rolling stones into uh into a back masking website and then like play it backwards and it was like these are the lyrics like uh the devil is coming well if you played the pokemon theme song backwards you can hear them

just chanting i love satan i love yeah yeah yeah or like stairway to heaven backwards heaven is like uh yeah yeah the devil oh shit i forget it but then there's one of a beetle song where before and it was like paul is a dead man oh oh no it's save him save him i heard miss him miss him oh i don't know maybe it could be i remember playing the same song i mean i think it's save him save him i heard miss him miss him oh i don't know maybe it could be i remember playing the same song i mean i think it's probably none of them but i actually might i mean miss him miss him makes more sense the one that i put that song into on a website gave you the lyrics i think i just it decided for me what it said and i read it but there's like a queen song too that if you play um oh my god another one bites the dust if you play it backwards there's like a queen song too that's if you play um oh my god uh another one bites the

dust if you play backwards it's fun to smoke marijuana that's my favorite one i forgot it's fun to smoke and we were like wow it is demonic it's so funny so we should play like our podcast backwards and see if there's anything weird don't do that because i'm sure it's full of satanic messages did you see the tiktok uh where they god damn it i can't remember now is this our podcast now we talk about tiktok there's three words or if you say they're not really three words or three sounds but you say it um if you play it backwards it says something like fuck my life or i'll do it later it's like it makes you say the word fuck but uh wow i know i'm not really nailing this like this the illusion here but it's a big tiktok thing and i was like oh i should do

that on christine sometime and then i forgot until just now well that worked really well for you also i just think that's really creepy that the little boys talk backwards well it's even creepier because this is how they shape shift they literally just remove their feathers like it's a giant blanket like a cloak okay so imagine like a blanket of feathers i love that i'm on board with that and then they take their beaks and then like a mask just put it on their forehead oh so they walk around with a little party cat party hats yeah and then all of a sudden they're little boys oh it makes no sense who talked backwards oh that's creepy though i really don't it really freaks me out imagine if it were as simple as like throwing a blanket off of you and putting a mask on your head and then just, like, talking in reverse.

Just putting on a little party hat and being like, it's me. It's fun to smoke marijuana. Surprise. So here is the, here are some of the sightings. They're all kind of vague sightings, but it has been seen for a long time, like, since the 1800s. I'm going to get into a specific story from the 1800s in a little bit so i'm just going to start at the 1940s and the 1940s there's a guy named robert who spotted a thunderbird allegedly sitting on a

road and it had a 20 foot wingspan in 1948 there were also several witnesses that saw a condor like bird about the size of a small airplane oh in 1969 a woman saw an enormous bird with a wingspan that was as long as the creek was wide very southern i imagine knee-high grasshopper knee-high whatever as the crow flies but as the thunderbird flies that is what we should get siri to start saying wide i wide. I don't know. In 1970, there were several people who saw a gigantic bird soaring with dark colored feathers and its wingspan was that of an airplane. Oh. Casual. And then in 1977, this story got a lot of traction because it was actually written about in a newspaper.

In Lawndale, Illinois, there was a 10-year-old little boy named Mar Lowe, who was reportedly attacked by two of these giant birds. Oh shit. His mother, Ruth, saw these two birds hovering a few feet above her yard. One of them grabbed Marlon off the ground and then dragged him 30 feet. Oh my God. And then Ruth went out and scared them and the birds dropped him and flew away. But apparently a lot of people saw this, like a lot of witnesses were here so uh the police actually took the report really seriously and in the newspaper called the freeport journal standard they had a description of this bird that said it had a white ring around its half foot long neck the rest of the body was very black the bird's bill was six inches in length and hooked at the end the claws on the feet were arranged with three front one in the back so like i imagine a normal claw on a bird each wing less uh each wing was four feet at the

very least and the entire length of the bird's body from beak to tail feather was approximately four and one and a half feet okay four and a half feet sorry they spell four and one half feet sorry um but so that becomes a running theme that the thunderbird from the sky is on average it has a wingspan of like 15 to 20 feet and when people see it sitting up close and personal it's about four to five feet tall so it's still a four foot standing bird it's terrifying um i can't believe multiple people saw this child getting attacked yeah to a point where like it was taken seriously by scary in 2001 there was a 19 year old who saw an enormous winged creature flying over route 119 in pennsylvania apparently this witness heard a sound that resembled flags flapping in a thunderstorm whoa and saw a bird that had a wingspan of 10 to 15

feet and its head was three feet long on its own the witness said quote i wouldn't say it was flapping its wings gracefully but almost horrifically flapping its wings very slowly and then gliding above the passing big rig trucks and then the bird landed on a branch and almost broke the branch because it was so heavy sad me in a tree by the way um tree so another witness in 2001 saw a quote dark creature flying thinking it was a small airplane but it had a fully feathered body and estimated the wingspan to be about 15 feet and its body length was another five feet wow another witness saw a bird with a wingspan again 15 feet wide and was the best bird was described as a dark gray bird with little or no

neck and a circle of black under its head its beak is very thin and long about a foot in length so a foot long beak yeah i don't i don't like that in 2012 alaska a lot of alaska residents reported seeing this bird and it was everyone said it was the size of a small plane with at least a 14 foot wingspan god and in 2013 there were two more people in the woods that saw a large bird saying quote it was extremely loud and i glanced up and saw a huge black bird sitting above us and we seemed to startle it it flew about 100 feet to a nearby branch its wingspan was at least 10 feet long and judging how far it was it looked to be around four feet tall in 2018 on a in a facebook group on uh for a woman

named tabitha bauer who lived in juneau alaska this is all in alaska tabitha said um a huge i just saw a huge black bird flying above the road the wingspan was at least 20 feet long it was as wide as the road i have lived here all my life and have never seen anything like that it freaked me out it was not a raven or an eagle. This isn't a joke. This thing was huge, almost the size of a small airplane. I believe you, Tabitha. And then also, quick fun fact, investigations of earlier sightings in the 1800s were published in 1870, 1874, 1881, and also 1904. They were all Thunderbird reports in Alaska.

They were all Thunderbird, all Thunderbird reports in Alaska. So it's weird that, I mean, sometimes it's, you know, in the Bridgewater Triangle, which was in like Massachusetts. Right. Other times it's like the other side. It's Alaska. Wow. So because there have been so many sightings in Alaska, people have actually taken it seriously of like, what could it possibly be?

And a lot of people think it might just be a giant bird, because if you think about a lot of animals in Alaska, they're all enormous compared to their species. So there's like the moose is fucking massive, a Kodiak bear, a polar bear. Apparently those are like two of the largest bears. So they think like it would make sense that based on like environmental factors of you need to eat a lot, you need to be big and have like a lot of fur or feathers on you to stay warm. It's not hard to believe that there would be another massive sized animal and there's so few people comparatively to like a place right so they think that it might just be like maybe sorry i realized when i said

out loud it didn't make sense but i think i think i was trying to say like they aren't what was i trying i don't even know what i was trying to get it i think what you were trying because i my brain understood you okay good i was like i think i said the opposite i don't know i'm confusing myself i'm sorry because there aren't as many people or there's not a big of a population that there's less reports there is that what you were gonna say or that like uh maybe they're not spotted maybe if they're there we don't know as much about them because there are fewer people to report them but when they are seen it's like a bigger deal i would say they were located somewhere like in boston or whatever people would see them all the time i don't right yeah i guess

that is what you're saying yeah yeah i'm sorry i hear you and you hear me but no one else hears us our brains are you know like everyone else is like just fucking move on okay just play it backwards and you'll understand it's actually the formula to life um so uh they think that it's probably honestly just a giant fucking bird in the pacific northwest or alaska and it's like not a monster it just happens to maybe have evolved into a bigger version of itself just to stay warmer oh interesting during the winter yeah so like maybe it's not a monster could just be a big bird uh big bird. Hey, Muppets, Jim Henson. You know all about that. We know all about it. So the biggest, most famous account of the Thunderbird is in April of 1890 in Tombstone, Arizona, in the newspaper called Tombstone epitaph there they printed a story about these two ranchers in the desert who saw a quote seemingly exhausted winged creature flying a short distance okay the creature was described as quote a huge alligator with an extremely elongated tail and an immense pair of wings what so a flying alligator we'll get to that in a second okay so the ranchers they were on

horseback they saw it they were like well we have to shoot it because i guess it's what you do when you're a rancher in 18 in america sure sure you're just like i've got a gun it's time to shoot something so it's been a while it's fucking been a while i've never seen anything like that gotta have it it's mine remember how white people don't take anything from nature or exactly like i see it i I want it. Like that Ariana Grande song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it. I love it. I want it.

It's about actually giant alligators. If you play it backwards, you can hear her saying, alligator, alligator, alligator, alligator. It's mine. It's mine. So they went on a horseback. They chased it down. They shot it. It ended up falling to the ground, and they killed it.

Congratulations. Wow. Cool. You did it. Now it's falling to the ground and they killed it. Congratulations. Wow. Cool. You did it. Now it's taxidermied or what? So they ended up examining it because they were like, what was that thing in the sky? And then they measured it, found out it was 92 feet in length. What?

And the greatest diameter was 50 inches. It had a 160 foot wingspan. Wait. And they shot it with one bullet and killed it? Oh, I don't know. And it had an alligator't know and it had an alligator head and it was listening to ariana grande it was yes uh it now belongs to her it so it had 160 foot wingspan which was difficult to measure because the wings had folded under the

body and so massive they couldn't pull it out okay so the wings were apparently remember i said it was like an alligator head so it's kind of reptilian looking instead of it being necessarily bird-like. Sure. And the wings were made of a thick, almost clear membrane with no feathers or hair. It had an eight-foot head. So two feet more of me is the head. Oh, for God's sake. We don't need any of that.

Sharp teeth, which goes without saying, I imagine. Wait, but the beak, it has has teeth it has teeth and its beak yeah see like that's weird though because birds don't have teeth you know well i guess when you're half alligator you got teeth i know um and quote its eyes were as large as dinner plates awful um so the ranchers cut off a piece of the wing to have proof and they went home to prep skinning it and they also had made uh arrangements to bring it back into town to have it studied and so they came back to the site with quote several prominent men who planned to help bring it into town and we never got an update after that the paper just stopped there they just said that well they're

bringing it into town. And then we never found out what the fuck it was. So then a lot of people thought maybe it's a government conspiracy or something of like, oh, they came in and took it. Yeah. Information got leaked. We're going to leave it at what it's at. And no one's ever going to find out about this. Shush the media.

Exactly. So the paper never reported again. But the story got picked up later by an L.A. paper. And the author believed that the creature was actually the, quote, monster of Elizabeth Lake, which I have not covered. But apparently that monster had been missing for a while. And like, where did it go? No one had seen it. And they were like, oh, it now learned how to fly. And someone shot it down in terrible in Illinois or something.

So the sightings continued from from the 1830s to the 1880s uh this is for the monster of elizabeth lake okay there had been sightings from the 1830s to the 1880s and then this happened in 1890 and they were like we haven't seen this monster in a while maybe you shot it by accident but not by accident very much on purpose right exactly so the monster of elizabeth lake is described as having the head of a bulldog the neck of a giraffe the wings of a bat six legs and is 50 feet long and smells nauseating okay very specific apparently it would kill farm animals and occasionally fishermen around the lake um so they thought okay maybe it's this creature even though they never mentioned like it's this creature even though

they never mentioned like it can fly and like has a massive 160 foot wingspan sometimes it goes to arizona on vacation i guess yeah exactly and also it's part alligator all right it definitely one had an alligator head one had a bulldog yeah yeah yeah very different animals so uh one story says that a rancher shot at it but didn't kill it so maybe it got scared and fled to tombstone arizona they think that that's what he was injured or tired or whatever yeah so it since it was the monster of if it was the monster of elizabeth lake maybe a fisherman really tried to get at it when it was in the lake it got scared up and out of the water and flew to arizona and then it was tired it was like btw i have wings what is what a fucking story what

a story let me lift my beak over my face and now i'm a shapeshifter and i can fly and also i'm an alligator so all of this if it's hard to believe that maybe this isn't real let me assure you now in 1963 there was a guy named jack pearl who claimed that there was actually a photo of the capture of this creature. Remember all those prominent men came and took a picture with this thing? All the prominent men. So apparently they all took a picture with this creature and it was published in the Tombstone Epitaph article. And the picture showed six cowboys in front of a large winged creature, which had been nailed to the side of a barn. Okay, come on. So a lot of people, if you look up that picture,

people will say, oh, I've seen that before. Like, oh, I know about that. But something weird's happening. I remember something about this. Have I seen this picture? I don't know. Look it up. Is it the one and it's like kind of spread out?

Yeah. And it's all these people in front of it? I mean, that's what you just described. I mean, if you're a mentalist, you really... Yeah, it's like sepia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen that. Sorry, but what what you just described. I mean, if you're a mentalist, you really... Yeah, it's like sepia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen that. Sorry, but what were you going to say?

So that's the picture. And in 1963, Jack Pearl claimed that this picture existed. But since the 60s, many people claim that they saw this picture, including... So apparently at the time for the 60s, it went viral. People saw this picture. Yeah. Including cryptozoologist Ivan T. Sanderson, who was one of the people who was involved with the Minnesota Iceman. Oh, yeah.

So even he says like, I've seen this picture. Absolutely. But in the 1990s, for 30 years now, nobody can actually find this picture. Mandela effect. That's where I've heard it before. Yeah. Oh, my God. OK.

I was like, I've definitely because I know the picture. And then I remember them on Reddit being like, you know, that Thunderbird picture. And I'm like, yeah. And it was nowhere on the Internet. So they've been saying since the 60s it exists. We have this picture, but nobody could ever show it. Everyone said I either saw it in National Geographic or I saw it in this magazine or I saw it on this news outlet and no one can find it. So in the 1990s, because the photo was still nowhere to be found

strange magazine searched everywhere for it and like reached out to their readers like someone find this picture they found dozens of readers who said that they had seen the picture but nobody could place where they had seen it so in 2006 crypto mundo.com published two photos and one drawing of the the thunderbird just to gauge people's reactions and they post these pictures with the caption lost thunderbird photo found and many commenters commenters said that uh this was not the photo they were thinking of so just to see like if everyone had the same understanding yeah they put out fake pictures oh god this is freaking me out to be like is this the lost picture everyone is thinking of yikes just to like trick everyone and every single person who has no idea where they saw the picture from was

still able to say this is not the picture so it wasn't like a mass thing where they were like oh wait yeah that was it yeah yeah they were like i know what i'm thinking of but that's not the picture i can picture exactly the photograph in my head yeah so it's like a group of men standing in front of i know exactly the photo because i've seen it on reddit and people are like no i can describe it and it's exactly what i picture but i don't know why i would have seen it i mean it's because everyone's seen it for a second i think it's so weird do you guys know what we're talking about well hang on i'm in the middle of my notes where they'll find out well no i'm asking like if they've seen it i want to know if other people like are like oh i know that photo yes Yes. Oh. Shut up. Wow.

I'm sorry. I'm trying to be inclusive. Play along with us. In the comments. In the comments below. Subscribe. So some people had said they'd seen the picture in a book, but when they looked again, it was gone.

So then there was this argument that there was like a glitch in the matrix or an alternate reality because this picture no longer existed in places that people swore they'd seen them yeah and many people also actually thought there was a theory that the government sent time travelers to erase the picture because they didn't want us knowing about it oh my god so where is this picture christine what the phrase you've been saying mandela effect that one yes oh or a collectively shared uh false memory which i i don't believe in the mandela effect sorry in advance everyone i don't think it's real because whatever it doesn't matter but um when you cover it we can discuss we can just i think it's interesting but i think most of the time it's like a mass shared thing

however i did fall into this one i don't know i can't explain this one there you time it's like a mass shared thing. However, I did fall into this one. I don't know. I can't explain this one. There you go. It's fascinating. So the photo was never taken, but its description is so vivid that it created a shared false memory that people still swear by. Oh, so it is a false memory? Or that's just one of the theories? No, it is a false memory. It doesn't, the picture does not exist. How do we know if it's not a Mandela photo?

Oh, so, okay. But we don't know if it's not a Mandela fact? Oh, so, okay. But we don't know that it's not. It was never put any, like, someone made a fake picture and then put it somewhere and just through a collective false shared memory. I think someone was able to doctor a version that everyone saw in their head. So in the 1930s to the 1940s, one of the actual ranchers from that shot it down said that they never caught up to the creature and the horses got spooked and it flew away so it confirms like we never caught it to be able to take a picture or the government came in and said tell them you never caught it that's the thing we're gonna believe conspiracy more fun also in 1970 that story was confirmed because one of the ranchers

childhood best friends was like yeah i've heard that story a million times my whole life they never got that thing. Okay. Well, so no one ever took a picture with it. The only one that could exist is a doctored one that was created after so many people swore they'd seen a picture that someone actually drew it so well.

And it matched with everyone's memory, fake memory of it that now people are like, oh yeah, that's the picture I saw. But people are like, well, I drew that after the fact., oh, yeah, that's the picture I saw. But people are like, well, I drew that after the fact. That's so weird.

Okay. So interestingly, according to a lot of native tribes, even if people think they have seen the Thunderbird, none of them could actually be a real Thunderbird. Because if you remember the very beginning quote that I said, no person has ever seen an actual Thunderbird. Right. Even in their dreams or in visions um thunderbirds have no actual physical

form if they do have any physical form at all and if you were at all able to see one it would still be only a glimmer or a piece got it you've no one's ever seen a whole thunderbird it doesn't even matter if you're a prominent man exactly so any eyewitness sightings by definition cannot be thunderbirds they're something else and in fact it's probably disrespectful to suggest that anyone could see a thunderbird right um so modern sightings and cryptozoological accounts say that a thunderbird could be a giant eagle but that still doesn't make sense because it has such a massive wingspan that like totally like it like counts dwarfs the idea of of a bald eagle weird it's so massive and if estimates are real let's pretend that everyone who thinks they've seen a thunderbird really has it was definitely a thunderbird and their estimates from far away guessing the wingspan of this creature

was real um then these are birds that have not been identified by science the largest known bird is the wandering albatross with a wingspan of 12 at the largest at 12 feet um and then the largest predatory birds which are the most like a thunderbird um are condors with a 10 foot wingspan so the fact that on average it's 15 to 20 is unheard of scientifically so they could be a descendant of a pterosaur um so like a pterodactyl or something like that the ranchers did describe it having an alligator head so it is more dinosaur than than bird like reptilian yeah and uh so fun fact pterosaurs are flying reptiles they're the very first vertebrates to have evolved uh powered flight fun fact birds are or wait what pterosaurs oh pterosaurs they're flying they're the only vertebrates to have over time understood developed um crazy

powered flight crazy so historians adrian mayer and tom holland yes spider-man not actual spider another tom holland okay but we're gonna pretend spider-man like had something to say about the thunderbirds around a lot they said that the thunderbird is based on pterosaur fossils found by natives at one point and so they probably um found these fossils created this like image of what the creature probably looked like and then through oral stories over time the thunderbird kind of evolved into their traditions interesting that being said if we're talking realistically like what this could be pterosaur is a good idea like it's a good argument but it's more likely that it's actually a terra torn which is

an extinct giant bird which is an ancestor of the vulture oh ew vultures are creepy which did live among humans so there is a chance that someone could have seen one and talked about it and it could have been passed on oh interesting so those fossils have been also found in the labrea tar pits the argentinian mountains, Cuba, and Nevada. Wow. And the largest teratorn fossil to date suggests that the bird was 180 pounds with a 20 to 26 foot wingspan. Holy crap.

And that's a real creature. Yeah. Oh, God, no. Oh, God, no. So the biggest argument to this is that the thunderbird, the biggest argument against this, like, no, it's not a teratorn, is because the thunderbird wings are feathered and a pterosaur or a teratorn wings are bat-like. But it is still the most likely theory. Like, they could have just added colorful feathers onto this creature over time through the stories.

Wow. But they think it's probably, if it does exist, it's probably just a descendant of like a really large vulture and that's the thunder that is so crazy okay that's so cool i feel like there's so much in there there's like cryptozoology and folklore and like the mandela effect potentially or you know it's all spooky yeah yikes oh my god i got a lot of goose cam in that one oh good thank you m of course yeah that was fun and of course there's many um movies and shows and stories and books and items about the thunderbird i just never mentioned any of those but but but just know like there's there's a lot of scary movies and stuff about the thunderbird

and things like that right right okay great well so i'm gonna tell you my story now um so this one uh was suggested also by close friends on Instagram. Danny Beaupre. Beaupre? Beaupre. Hi, Danny. Danny. So Danny suggested the story of Dorothy Jane Scott.

And this one is super creepy. Oh. Well, I do love the creeps. Give them to me. Super creeps. OK. She's a super creep. Super creep.

Super creepy. How? I hated that. OK. don't play that one backwards it's not gonna end well for anybody okay so this is a story of dorothy jane scott which is interesting because i just realized i did dorothea puente last week so i think i'm on a weird kick but okay so may of 1980 32 year old single mother dorothy jane scott she lives a pretty mundane life she lives in stanton california which is like in kind of orange county southern california area cool and she has a four-year-old son named shaunty and his nickname is shaun and um she's a single mother and so she

basically her whole life is like going to work uh taking care of her four-year-old kid she didn't have a lot of money um so don't let the orange county part fool you sure uh she actually would sew her own clothes from old curtains so that she could like buy clothes for her boy like she was like so she's a spectacular mother spectacular mother i see gave him whatever he needed uh was a great mom and so the reason she ended up in southern california she had divorced sean's father and they had moved uh from miss to Southern California where they would live with her parents and her aunt. So they moved into her aunt's home in Stanton and her parents, whose names are Jacob and Vera, lived a few miles away in Anaheim. So when she moves there, she starts a job and she works as a secretary in a shop called Swingers Psych Shop and Custom John's Head Shop, which was next door.

Okay. So those are both in Anaheim. And her dad had owned those companies and had sold them. So she stayed on and worked as a secretary in those stores. So every morning, she would drive to her parents' house, drop Sean off, and go to work. And in the evening, she would pick him up, drive home, try to spend as much time with him as possible before bed, and then do the same thing all over again the next day.

Oh my gosh. Day-to-day routine. She was a devout Christian. She didn't drink. She didn't party. She rarely went out outside the house. She mostly just wanted to spend time with her son and go to work, went to church, you know, just basic just basic routine i mean a friend actually of hers said that this is kind of rude i think but they called her life dull as a phone book i'm like well i mean that's just her priorities as a phone if i didn't have to leave the house ever i wouldn't either so okay um so anyway so she's super generous though and people like knew her as being an extremely generous

person um her brother once said that she exemplified the word give because she would just give and give and give no matter what it cost her wow so she's just like a spectacular woman she's just like a yeah a spectacular human and um unfortunately things did not go so well well i never expect them to i never expect them to no they don't i'm glad imagine the day where you end a story with oh when they lived happily ever after i'd be like what that would be uh someday maybe we'll get to that in like 200 years if you play any like fairy tale backwards actually then you get in that's why we drink oh oh that's right we're literally the opposite of a fairy tale no one lives happily ever after how sad. Sorry that we're doing this to you.

So in the months prior to May 28th, this is still in 1980, Dorothy begins to receive taunting phone calls from an unknown male. Oh, no. Sometimes the caller would call at her home in Stanton, but more often they would call her workplace. The random calls would alternate. So sometimes they would be really complimentary, call her beautiful, like pledge their love to her and their devotion to her. And then they would switch. Sometimes they would be sinister, angry, extremely violent and threatening. And let's not forget, like, that he this person knows her home and work number. Oh, yeah.

It gets worse. So it's not like she's like safe at home because they're taunting her at work. It's not like there's prank calling her work. Exactly. Exactly. dorothy tells others so she tells other people about the callers or the calls and she says the voice sounds vaguely familiar but she can't remember she can't place it she's like i feel like i've heard this voice but i can't figure out who it is and so the caller tells dorothy like you said he's following her every move he even will like pretty much every time he calls describes what she's wearing to prove said he's following her every move he even like pretty much every time he calls

describes what she's wearing to prove that he's watching her oh my god so he literally knew like her day-to-day so she he was there yeah he could yeah he could see her or he followed her and so he could he could he knew what she was wearing which was like the creepiest part because like you said it means he was there um and her routine so if he's like oh you went to church this morning or you went to here today like he would know um one day he told her to get out of her car or sorry to get out of work and go to her car because he had left a gift for her she walks out to her car and discovers a dead rose on the windshield oh yikes neither alive or dead i hate it right it's a little worse dead's like you intentionally waited for it to die before you put it there or you don't care a whole lot about me because you just pulled

one out of the trash or you pulled it out of the trash right like oh she'll love this hold on she gets it i'm on a budget it's fine um yeah maybe next valentine's day don't take uh this person's advice it doesn't seem it doesn't seem very romantic at one point the caller says it escalates obviously and he says okay now you're going to come my way and when i get you alone i will cut you up into bits so no one will ever find you and what'd she do go okay like how what do you do at that point so she at this point considers buying a gun she was like very anti-firearm and she considers buying a gun but she like lives alone with her young son and she's like i just don't feel comfortable having a gun in the home so instead she starts taking self-defense classes um and she starts she's like

i don't know there's nothing else i can do i mean she doesn't call the police you can't call the police what are they gonna do if someone's calling me over and over like there's nothing you can do it's like the same in all these stalker stories it's horrifying because like they have all the power i mean there's nothing you can do you can be like oh somebody's calling me but like if you don't know who it is you don't know where it's coming from and they haven't even done anything to you except give you a dead flower um there's just not much room to do anything so she starts taking self-defense classes which i guess is the best thing you could do in this scenario um and then may 28th 1980 so it's like any other day uh she takes sean to his grandparents house her parents house and arrives at work so after a long day she picks up sean heads home for a few

hours and then she has a meeting with like an employee meeting at the shops so she like routine goes to the scheduled employee meeting and drops her parents off and it's 9 p.m at this point she's at this meeting and she notices that her co-worker whose name is conrad bostron he doesn't look well like he looks sick and he's pale he's agitated he's like sweating and they're like are you okay and he's like no no i'm fine i'm fine and then she notices that he has like this red mark on his arm and it's swelling and there's like a rash around it. And she's like, I need to take you to the hospital. Something's wrong. So they go to UC Irvine Medical Center and one of their coworkers named Pam volunteers to go with them. So Dorothy drives, three of them go to the hospital and on the way she stops by her

parents home to check on Sean. And for whatever reason, she changes her scarf from a black scarf to a red scarf, hops back in the car and then drives the two to the hospital so 20 to 25 minutes later they arrive at the emergency room it turns out that conrad had been bitten by a black widow spider so like this is like he was not doing hot oh no he was uh dying he was in very big trouble so uh at this point it was very good that she brought him to the emergency room as i I said, she was very caring. Was he hoping he would become Spider-Man? Maybe. Maybe. I do think if I got bit by a spider, I'd be like, give it

five minutes. Let's just see what happens. That happens in a good place. He's going to get an MRI and they're like, what are you holding? And he's like, nothing. And they're like, are you holding a spider? You just never know. Maybe. Maybe. It's going to happen one day. I have a feeling about it. It's happened before.

It could happen again. It has happened in three different versions of the same story if you look at Marvel. So statistically speaking, the pattern is there. Look, either I'm going to be bitten by a spider or I'm going to be dressed in iron and fighting in space. It's fine. There's only two potential options. Potential. We'll find out which one it is.

in space it's fine there's only two potential options potential we'll find out which one it is so it turns out he had been bitten by black widow um which is obviously high well not obviously i guess if you're not from this part of the world but it's a highly venomous spider uh found in southern california and doctors rush him in for treatment it is treatable um if you catch it in time so pam and dorothy are hanging out in the waiting room they're reading magazines they're just talking um and pam said like the only time dorothy would get up was if she had to use the bathroom but other than that everything seemed pretty normal and then around 11 p.m so only like two hours later uh conrad is discharged but he needs to fill a prescription before he leaves so dorothy's like okay i'm gonna go get my car she drives a 1973 toyota station wagon she's like i'm gonna go get

it from the parking garage you guys go to the pharmacy real quick in the hospital and i'll swing by and pick you up out front got it so uh pam and conrad go to the pharmacy while dorothy goes to get her car 20 minutes later pam and conrad have their prescription they're waiting out front and they are a little confused because dorothy's still not there and they're like oh my god that's weird like the garage only five ten minute max away um so it's a little weird it's been 20 minutes and she's still not out front and so then suddenly they see Dorothy's station wagon heading their way and they're like okay thank god there's her car at first they're relieved um but then they notice that the car is speeding toward them and like driving erratically and like speeding all down the road and like swerving and they're like okay so they try to flag her down but when they try to flag her down um the car's

high beams turn on and like blind them so they can't see it's middle of the night they can't see into the driver's seat and so they can't confirm who was driving the car yikes then uh the car takes off and pulls speeds out of the parking lot and they're basically like i mean maybe there was a family emergency like who knows what happened um and so they kind of waited for a while so pam actually waited for two hours hoping she would return because she's like why wouldn't she come back she knew we were waiting for her and then she calls dorothy's parents being like where the heck is she and dorothy's parents say we're like sean is still here she hasn't come to pick him up we haven't heard from her either so

this is two hours later and they're like we need to call the police at this point because where the heck is she where did she go so um it's up for speculation whether like some people think like right at first people the police didn't necessarily take it that seriously but also you know she's a 30 something year old woman like and they said oh it's been two hours since we saw her that's you know not the most alarming statement yeah and i guess you're not taking every case really seriously right i mean a lot of times people are found yeah you know and also but like if they knew like she's very by the book like super routine and right like she is pretty selfless with her time like she and she was expected to show up and then she almost runs them over yeah like it's all very out of character it is very out of character but at the same time they're like but

we did see her car maybe she ran off somewhere had to do you know so at first yeah exactly so they weren't sure um if they should take it seriously at first. But a few hours later, at approximately 4.30 a.m., which is less than six hours after she was last seen, police find Dorothy's 1973 Toyota station wagon in an alley more than 10 miles away in Santa Ana, and it's engulfed in flames. Oh, no. They check the car. All of her belongings are inside, but Dorothy is nowhere to be found. Well, great.

Yeah. So they're like, okay, never mind. You were right. This is something has gone terribly wrong. Okay. You're right. You're right. You're right.

You're right. You're right. My bad. My bad. My bad. Yeah. So police, uh, at first tell Dorothy's family, like her parents, I don't feel like I need to turn toward you.

I feel like I keep like, hold on. Look into my eyes. No, I'm like craning my neck. Oh, I thought you just wanted to be closer to me i do that's my i just want to look into your baby browns and melt that's my big secret is it worth it they're piercing you're like you looked away immediately i looked for a second and i hated it now my face is covered oh well whatever okay i'm just gonna tell the story okay so at first police tell uh dorothy's family to

please keep quiet about dorothy's disappearance they say don't talk to the media don't publicize this in any way because um we want to make sure that the details are not in the paper so that if we actually find this person we can test whether they are the real culprit or not you know what i mean yeah so one week after dorothy is a disappearance vera her mother receives a phone call at her house fuck i already hate this yes it's bad the male caller asks vera if she's related to dorothy so at this point she's hopeful like oh maybe this person has information for me oh so you're so quick to say yes yeah so she's being like no who the fuck is yeah exactly because she's waiting for tips you know and she she also hasn't been able to talk to the media or anybody so she's like oh

yeah i am i'm her mother and the caller simply responds i've got her and hangs up oh goose cam so after two weeks um after this phone call and they have heard nothing more from the police jacob dorothy's dad, is like, fuck it. I'm going to contact the media because he's like, if nothing else is going on, like I need all the help I can get. So he goes to the media and the Santa Ana Register runs a story about Dorothy's disappearance on June 12th, 1980. The following day, the managing editor of the newspaper receives a fucking phone call and the caller does not identify himself shocking but tells the editor quote i killed her i killed dorothy scott she was my love i caught her cheating with another man she denied having someone else i killed her what and like are we referring like she cheated by taking a man to a hospital?

I don't know. Is that what this means? Okay. Maybe. I don't know. I would think like he was following her the whole time and then he saw her take him. Take a man in the car, maybe. And then lost it. Right.

Perhaps. Perhaps. So Pat Riley, who was the managing editor of the newspaper who received the call, said the caller knew details about I thought it was her clothing about Dorothy's's clothing got it he knew about the red scarf yeah so he was definitely following her to the hospital so it was that guy because at first they're like well it could be a prank call you know people call and are like i did it and whatever but she said they knew it was real when he said she changed her scarf from black to red okay yeah so he's following this whole time he also tells the editor that

dorothy called him from the hospital although pam was who was with her this whole time was like no she didn't because i was with her right she got it briefly to use the bathroom but like she never went to find a phone or anything and obviously they didn't have cell phones at this point so like there was no way so she's like that's bullshit so the investigation continues um police obviously check the first culprits her ex-husband, who's Sean's father. He had the airtight alibi of being like 2,000 miles away, tons of witnesses. Like there was no way he would have done it. And the police also rule out coworkers.

Customers at the shop weren't really considered suspects because she worked in the back and like rarely interacted with customers. So it wasn't like there's somebody who came in every day to see her or anything like that but the worst part is the taunting calls to Dorothy's mother continued every single Wednesday she received a call and she would always answer because she wants to get as much information as she can thinking maybe her daughter's still alive you know even though he's admitted he he killed her well yeah but then he also said I have her at one, you know? Even though he's admitted he killed her. Well, yeah. But then he also said, I have her at one point. Right. He could be just taunting her.

Just desperate for answers. Exactly. And even if she is dead, like, she wants to know where is she. And so basically Vera gets a call every single Wednesday and Gia wants to go out the door. Yes. I am so sorry. You talk. I'm out of breath. Those stairs were steep. All right. I'm so sorry, everybody. I so sorry. You talk. I'm out of breath.

Those stairs were steep. All right. I'm so sorry, everybody. I'm sorry to Em. I'm sorry to Eva. This is my big apology. Sorry to my lungs. I'm on an apology tour. Okay.

Sorry to your nervous system. All right. Can you hear me? No. Okay. What are you doing? I was like, can you hear my heart beating? I'm just like threw their

neck onto the microphone i wanted to know if you can hear what i feel your pulse okay i'm so sorry we were on a really creepy part um and geo interrupted what else is new okay so where could we be who the heck knows where could we be who the heck we could be where he reckoned uh the she's still getting calls every wednesday yes so the caller always called on wednesday yes and always hung up before it could be traced so obviously she told the police like hey maybe we can you know they're like maybe we can track him but every time he called he was smart enough to hang up the phone before a trace could be made sure the calls go on like clockwork every wednesday for almost three years oh my god at that point i would just be like my kid's dead isn't that horrific yeah well i think they knew

she was dead but they wanted to find her oh i find him i thought he she was like still hoping for leads on the phone calls i mean maybe but like leads at least like where her where she is or who he is i mean who he is no that is especially um and so the calls continued for almost three years then in april of 1984 um jacob answered the phone instead of vera and the caller just said nothing and immediately hung up and they were like that's strange huh so a couple months later august 6 1984 so this is four years later a construction construction worker along Santa An... Nope. Santa Ana Canyon Road in Anaheim discovers... Whoa. That's a lot, right?

Santa Ana Canyon in Anaheim. Yeah, it's a lot, huh? Yeah. I'm glad it's not just me. Discovers the skeletal remains of a human body alongside some dog bones on the side of the road. The bones were partially scorched, but this was... And at first I was like, oh, the car fire. But apparently it was due to a wildfire that had engulfed the area in 82.

So the bones had all been burned by this wildfire. I see. And through dental records, a watch that was found with the bones and a turquoise ring found with the remains. The body was identified as Dorothy Jane Scott. And the watch, this is horrifying, had stopped at 1230 a.m on may 29th 1980 the night she disappeared wow so she was dead the whole time well i think perhaps but i think like whatever happened to her the the killer like either took out the battery i don't know i don't know how he would stop i feel like at least assaulted her enough that like her watch her watch went off. Oh, that's true.

Like, got funky. That's true. Like, she could have banged it on something. That's true. That's true. That's true. Yeah, that's probably more likely. Still super creepy.

Yeah. So, 1230, the night she disappeared. So, police speculate she had been killed, like you said, within hours of her abduction. But the condition of Dorothy's remains make it impossible to determine how she was killed. Because they had been out there so long. And had been in a fire and all this stuff. So there was one more call made. By the unidentified caller. He called after it was released. That Dorothy's remains had been recovered.

And he called Vera. And said is Dorothy home? Fuck off. Are you serious? Is that not just the most sickening bullshit you've ever heard? And with that. As fucking horrifying as it is, her case went cold. And to this day, no, not one person has been charged with her presumed abduction and murder. It blows my mind that people, someone got away with like someone.

Oh, yeah. So I could have walked past them at the grocery store. Exactly. Someone got away with it and barely like even and fucking had fun with it for years without even getting caught. It's sick. Like was so confident. I, I always love the stories where someone is so overly caught, like the narcissist cases

where they're so overly confident, of course get caught immediately. It leads them. But like when someone is so cocky about, I'm not going to get caught and then actually don't, it's like it's like they added. It's an added jab of like, oh, absolutely. They win. It's awful. And the parents just get basically no closure.

They're traumatized. Fuck. Yeah. And so obviously, like there are theories as to who it is, but nobody's ever been charged. So I'm going to read you the theories real quick. Yeah. So a prevalent theory reportedly from Sean sean scott her son himself who believes this uh is there was this guy named he was a transient mountain man is what he was called

okay and his name was mike butler uh he was this eccentric religious zealot whose sister uh apparently became a well-known singer and used to work at swinger's psych shop and custom john's head shop oh and because his sister worked there he would come in to visit from time to time right and that is perhaps why they think dorothy found the caller's voice familiar but not so familiar that she could pinpoint who it was because maybe she had heard it a couple times apparently reportedly allegedly he was obsessed with dorothy he was also rumored to be involved in cult-like activities which people kind of connect to the dog bones that were found with her bones interesting thinking like maybe there was some cult or occult meaning

behind dog bones which some people believe i don't know if you know anything about that i don't know about i don't think there's like dog bones have meant anything, but I know like black fur, like dog fur. I Googled it a little bit and I found like dog skulls sometimes as people use, which is disturbing to me deeply. Um, I don't know. I know fur, like black fur is sometimes, and I'm speaking totally like out of what I've heard and it could totally not be accurate, but I'm, I think black dog fur is used in curses.

Oh, ew. Creepy. Yeah. Well, black dog, I guess that's fur is used in curses. Oh, ew, creepy. Yeah. Well, black dog, I guess that's like a huge symbolism. Yeah, it's like a, isn't it like the escorts of hell and all that? Yeah, yeah. Yikes. Okay.

Well, so there were dog bones found with her. Some people, like, I mean, but then you have to remember it's the 80s, like satanic panic. Everyone was like, oh my God, it's a cult. It's a cult, like satanic worshippers. It could not have been a cult. Right. It might have honestly just been like a happy Wiccan and like. or it could have been a dog that or it could have been a fucking dog found her body and died or i don't know like who knows what it could be exactly but like as soon as

you hear that like someone's into rituals it's like you're you just immediately assume it's like something awful so yeah well i just i like i think to assume her murder was like some sort of occult ritual is a little bit like outlandish. Outlandish. Yeah. I mean, it's possible. Yeah, it is possible. But also very much not.

And if he really was like involved in occult stuff and it wasn't just a rumor, then sure. Like this seems right on the nose, but, you know, it's all alleged. So this is an interesting like potential side note on that is that he since he frequented the shops, he would have also known Dorothy's dad, Jacob, who like owned the shops. And so that's why they think maybe the caller hung up when he answered because he knew he knew her dad personally. I see. And didn't want to get recognized. So when Vera answered, who like didn't work at the shops. Right.

He would taunt her. But then the second her husband answered, he was like, I don't want to be recognized because he knows me. Isn't that disturbing? Mike Butler died in 2014. And his obituary apparently said like this is just like a side note. It's not really related. It's a weird coincidence. But he was like a roadie for the Beach Boys who were also associated with like the Manson murders.

So I don't know. There's just weird shit going on there, too. Unfortunately, there's no like solid evidence that ever connected him to dorothy's murder but it's pretty much like the main running theory i would say got it um and thanks to obviously the dog bones and the satanic panic of the 80s um it's possible people have suggested as a possibility that this was just an occult ritual and that's that which i'm like well she had a stalker so i don't know that it was necessarily right a random happenstance occult ritual that just you know they just find her on the road and they're like we're gonna use you as perfect perfect yeah um another theory suggests that dorothy was a victim this is interesting of the golden state killer oh because he actually was operative in that area sure at the

time so like the timeline actually matches up and you know actually kind of think of it he did call his victims to taunt them for years right oh wow i never really thought about that one but like yeah he would he would call his victims afterward and taunt them years free decades interesting okay all right all right i'll keep it in my head as a potential i'll bite yeah i'll bite and then a final theory is that she was connected this disappearance was connected to um the disappearance of another woman named patricia jean schneider who disappeared two years after dorothy in pedley california which is less than an hour from where dorothy's remains were found um but they've never

actually discovered patricia's remains although her car was also found on fire within hours of her disappearance so it's like a similar mo if that makes sense sure and come to think of it i don't think the golden state killer like set anyone's car on fire but he did a lot of other shit so who knows yeah um sadly jacob scott her father, died in 1994 and Vera passed on in 2014. So 20 years after Jacob. And they never found justice for Dorothy. Yikes. Sean, though, her son, is still alive and he is still seeking information.

He's still hoping to find his mother's murderer. he's still hoping to find his mother's murderer if anyone has any information by any chance at all um about the murder of dorothy jane scott please contact the orange county sheriff's department in california at 714-647-7000 and then um i want to add one thing about like stalking in general which is something that i just uh always want to add a little note to um and like you know the first thing you might think is like, why the fuck wouldn't you go to the police? And at this point, like, if you think about it, the laws on the books today, like, are different than the ones in the 80s.

And there was no, first of all, there were no laws against stalking or harassment. It just wasn't considered a crime unless you, like, actually physically harmed somebody. Or, like like broke into their home um and so it was very easy for people to just kind of do this without any sort of repercussions and obviously so like it's just a phone call there's no proof who it was there is no way to trace it and so um this just was not considered a crime whatsoever and uh the state of california was actually the first in the nation to implement stalking laws because of, like, remember Rebecca Schaefer, who was shot by her stalker? Yeah.

And there was a mass shooting in 1988 in Sunnyvale, which was committed by Richard Wade Farley. I have not covered that one yet. I did cover Rebecca Schaefer in episode 28, though. And so these are all, like, cases of stalking leading to murder. So it's like, like hey this is a serious crime right that can result in death um and so it's much more difficult now for stalkers to obtain information about their victims but this didn't happen until 1990 and even today as far as i'm concerned stalking laws are not nearly stringent enough or strict enough as they

should be um oftentimes stalking like the safety of stalking victims is not prioritized. It's extremely hard to, like, if, I mean, I watch that show Obsession sometimes, and it's so frustrating because, like, people go to the police and they're like, this man, I know who he is and he keeps calling me, but it's like, okay, he's calling you. There's not much we can do. Like a restraining order that he could probably walk right through. Right, exactly. And restraining orders are proven to, like, often not and most of the time not work.

Or sometimes piss them off even further. Or lead to actual violence. Exactly. And if you have children or you're scared for your life, I mean, anyway. So on April 4th, interestingly enough, 2019, the Violence Against Women Act of 1994, and to be clear, it is a gender neutral law, even though the name suggests otherwise. Oh, wow. Passed the House for reauthorization. But ever since, it has stalled completely since April of last year and no action has been taken. So it's been sitting on the Senate majority leader's desk for almost a year.

So we can hope that it's reinstated. But at this point, it's kind of in limbo. And that sucks. So, yeah, if you want to learn learn more about that there are a lot of resources online and if you are being you know a victim of this or know someone who is uh there are people who will take it seriously even if maybe you don't think the police will so that is my note on stalking and it's horrific so yeah that's that yikes okay sorry about that that's the story of dorothy jane scott and the creepiest fucking unsolved thing in the world who is he

and the fact that he was so obsessed with her before i want to know what the car movement was i wonder if that was me too did he break into her car and oh was he trying to drive and she was trying to stop him that's my thought right i mean my thought was that she got in the car to help he was hiding in the trunk and then she was trying to either like get their attention that like i need help right or maybe she was like trying to like stop the car and he was fighting her and making her continue to drive or they were fighting over the wheel or yeah my thought would be like he probably saw her leaving the hospital approached her got her in the car and was like dry i mean that would be my thought was that he was hiding in the car and she got that i mean no matter what it's awful it's fucking terrible yes it's horrific so uh yikes no matter what it's bad and i'm sorry and

that's our podcast and i hope it made you happy I hope this really put a smile on your face. Just play it backwards to soothe yourself. We really do have some wild people like who are like, this is the best part of my day. When I listen to you guys. I'm like, Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry that like, this is such a sad story. I hope you like a better a better thing. Think about my my godmother, my grandparents being like, What do you do for a living? I'm like, Oh, yeah, this is my passion. I don't know how to tell people what I do, because depending on when I'm in L.A., it's fine. So if I say I'm a podcaster, they're like, oh, yeah, well, that it's kind of becoming entertainment industry.

Right. But then I go back to Virginia and my mom's like, we're going to have a party and all my friends are coming over. So be on your best behavior, she says to her 27 year old. And then they're like, oh, what do you do? And I'm like, I'm a 27 year old and then they're like oh what do you do and i'm like i'm a podcaster and they're like so what do you actually do and i'm like i don't know i'm so i just sit here i'm so self-deprecating about it i'm always like oh believe it or not i'm a podcaster it's so millennial and stupid and i hate it i hate how stupid it sounds and people are like she calmed down i'm like i know you're gonna make fun of me okay god well because there's other people who say oh everyone's got a podcast what are you actually doing i'm like no mine's kind of good i think no i mean i don't

know somebody well rothy's lets us do it sometimes like sometimes i talk about christine's boobs does that make it better actually like so much not um thank you guys for listening and also allowing us to be self-deprecating and also allowing us to talk about Googling. We go from vain to like really hating ourselves so quickly. Isn't that the, it's the Gemini lifestyle. Yeah. Welcome. Um,

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