And That's Why We Drink - E181 Upside Down Eyes and Tiny Doll Hand Shaped Bruises

Episode Date: July 26, 2020

Cheers to the dolls! This week we're drinking because episode 181 is not just about one doll but a whole island full! That's right, Em is taking us to the notorious Island of the Dolls in Mexico. And you might be surprised who the mayor is. Then Christine takes us on a deep dive into the mysterious murder of Rey Rivera, a case recently covered on the new reboot of Unsolved Mysteries. Don't forget to tell us if you hear any murmuring in your house... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Get 10% off your first Glossier order on http://www.Glossier.com/podcast/DRINK Go to http://www.Theragun.com/DRINK and get your Gen 4 Theragun TODAY! Get a 4-week trial, free postage and a digital scale when you go to http://www.Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in DRINK Go to http://www.Nativedeo.com/drink or use promo code drink at checkout for 20% off your first order!

Hi, Christine. Hi, Em. I miss you. I miss you, too. This week, I actually, I had, like, a really down day where I was like, oh, I wish, like, I could just go drive over to Christine's. And, like, not down for any reason except for the fact that I miss you. I was just like, oh, I wish I could pop on over but and the saddest part is

even before I moved it was still that way because of corona so it wasn't like anything has changed it's just been months of unending sadness that's exactly what we're gonna call this in the history books yes um but no I just I just I don't know why maybe it's just like the third month is the one that hit me where I was like oh you're just never you're not nearby so just gone forever well I am never gone really because I do constantly barrage you with text messages and I never quite leave you alone so don't worry I'm not quite I thought you to, I thought this was the moment we were going to be like, oh, well, I'm never really gone because I'm here. And just like waltz through the door. No, I already did that.

We already pulled that. I already pulled that trick and it worked amazingly. Um, what, hello, why are you drinking today, Em? Oh, well, I'm drinking because I miss you, I think. Oh, I guess that's, that's what I was looking for. I was just fishing for that exact answer. So, uh, no, I, I guess that's what I was looking for. I was just fishing for that exact answer. No, I think that's probably it. Other than that, nothing else is really going on.

I have a good week. Oh, good. Okay. Well, that's good news. I'm glad I'm the only dark spot, dark cloud on your horizon, I guess. You're my bald spot on my head. Why do you drink? Well, okay. I do have a slight house update, which I was about to read. And then my Google Home thing started talking to me. And I was like, oh, no, it knows. But so a couple people have mentioned like, oh, I think I know what is going on in your house. It must just be the house settling.

And first of all, I know that's like the classic. Unsettling? That's unsettling. Unsettling. The house is unsettling in my presence and I don't like it. And so obviously that was my first thought too, because I'm like, okay, it's a new house. It's old. But A, I've lived in old houses my whole life. I know creeks and stuff aren't anything spooky, but it's the other stuff that's throwing me off, that feeling of being watched. And the other thing that I think I didn't mention last week for some reason that's also started happening is that I'll hear... Okay, now I'm really scared. Okay, Christine, I don't even want to hear the end

of the sentence. What? What do you hear? Chanting? Latin? What? You're waiting for the day when I hear Ache Romane playing. I'm waiting for the day where we pop on to Zoom together to record an episode and you're speaking Latin. My eyes are like upside down. Your eyes are upside down? I don't know. That's how I picture possession. I don't know.

That's like more disturbing than like what other people think of just only your eyes listen i'm home alone a lot i have a lot to think about okay anyway i'm sorry myself you hear something so i hear um this like talking and whispering noises and it's i live in like a empty house i mean not empty but like it's just us and i live in a really quiet neighborhood for the first time ever like i lived in la before which was not quiet ever um and i keep hearing like what sounds like whispered conversation like two people talking and i'll i'll go around the corner and it'll just like stop like it's not like it's oh it's coming from outside or it's coming from a different spot it'll just kind of of stop. And this has, like, since I talked about this on a recent,

I think it was two episodes ago, it's kind of slowed down the whole feeling, but the whispering has happened a couple more times, which reminded me to bring it up. And it sounds like the same voice every time. So I don't know if I'm going crazy. I don't know what's going on, but it's unsettling. I hate it. I hate that. Do you know

if they're whispering? Do you know at all what they're saying in the whispers or is it just murmuring? No, I hear it's murmuring. That's the exact word. It's murmuring. And I will like be really quiet and it'll keep going. And then the second I move or like turn, it'll stop. And it doesn't sound like anything in particular. Like it doesn't sound like words that I can make out, but it does sound, it does sound like English as far as I can tell. But I don't know. And I, people keep being like, pull out the Ouija board.

I'm like, not alone, man. I have to wait for him to get here. No, you will not. You will literally, I will not do that. You know what? Honestly, at this point, sure. Let's do it in your house. That's now on the other side of the country now i'll now all of a sudden i'll whip out a ouija board because it's not gonna mess with me okay fair i mean maybe some people have

also said maybe it's walt which maybe it is walt but why is it more active all of a sudden right and like it's not the ways he used to like the the seeing that things out of the corner of our eye that walt used to do that but the whispering that has never happened before. So I don't know. I've seen I've seen Walt and felt Walt. I've never heard Walt. And I don't know. I do not want.

I do not want. No, you were a gentleman. Walt, when you were a silent man. Drink your gin and stay quiet. Just stay by the whiskey cart. You'll be okay. So I don't know. I mean, I'll keep you updated. It really has stopped a lot since I talked about it on that episode. So I don't know what's going on, but I just wanted to update you because I'd forgotten to mention that. So that's your update for the day.

What a, it's more like a down date, i appreciate it i do really like this information being so far away in proximity to me doesn't that make you feel better that i'm far away now yes now all of a sudden i do not miss you please don't bring anything with you next time um okay i have one more note before you start your story and it's just that i uh for patreon i posted the video of em and eva surprising me the day of my move to Patreon. And you can see what M and Eva delivered to me for our road trip. And it's really sweet. I was like going through footage for my own YouTube, because I'm doing like a road trip video. And I found out the footage of M and Eva coming like I just walked outside and they surprised me and

they had all these little gifts and stuff for the dog and the cat. And it was really cute. So I posted that to Patreon. So if you are on Patreon, you can log in and see that there. That was fun. You know, since,

since you've been gone, even I have been able to conspire more often without you nearby, which has been fun. So somehow even I have also been able to conspire and fly me across country. So fair. Actually in, in a new level, a new, a new level of,

maybe Eva's just taking like a breath. She's like, okay, I can handle both of you like at an arm's reach now. Like you're not smothering me. Yeah. I mean, like it has been nice. Like I've gone over to her place and we were able to FaceTime you. That was fun. Oh, that was cute. I loved that experience. That was precious. And then, I mean, I remember that day when we got you all those presents. She was the one who suggested doing stuff for the pets, too. She was like, oh, we should get stuff for the cats. So cute. She got a cat sack where you're supposed to carry.

She showed me that on the way, and I was like, good luck presenting that to Christine as a good idea. Putting Jennifer in a sack. I was like, good luck presenting that to Christine as a good idea. Putting Juniper in a sack. I was like, this is not going to go well. But anyway, it's super cute and that was really sweet of them. And that is on Patreon now. So just an FYI. Cool. Coolio.

All right. Now that's all my notes, Em. It's all you now. Well, I have a question. Did we ever put up the Space Camp video? Oh, no. That one is still taking me it's 45 separate videos that i'm attempting to um put in one which is why i keep uploading short

things to patreon because the the space camp one is the one i cannot wait for because that was just a day of fucking chaos and the thing with the lemon napping video that's on patreon took like also months or like at least four weeks. And so this was at least one video. Yeah, that one was six videos. This one's 42. So I'm just giving you kind of like an S like a reason for why it's delayed. But I know when it shows up, it'll be amazing. I just want I just want to talk about I just want to be able to finally talk about my favorite part of the space camp or have we already talked about it on the show is it you know who oh i know you know who i know who yes frappuccino yes oh my god that's no there's nothing i want to talk about

more forever so you're right maybe that'll give me the boost that'll give me the the kick in the ass i need to get started do it for the Frappuccino character where we can't talk about you. Welcome to our paranormal true crime show. I have a ghost story for you as that is my literal job to provide. So this is going to be fun for people because most of the information I found, so this was a story that was requested a lot. I actually thought I'd already done it. So I kept telling people like, no, I'm not going to cover it. And then I found out that I hadn't covered it. And then there wasn't a lot of information online. So most of this information is from

Ghost Adventures. Oh, some GA action. Some ZB. Everyone's favorite so zb from the ga yeah so um everyone's favorite except mine well i think maybe it's your extra thing okay well let's not go there so uh yes so this is basically written by zach bagans and yours truly so So this is the story of- Dream, dream collab, by the way. Can you imagine? One day, I have it in my heart, at some point we're gonna have to network with him and he's just gonna shit all over whatever idea we have. He's going to hand us a notarized letter from his lawyer

that says, I am suing you for everything you own. And I'm waiting for that. I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to say he, he's going to hand us our asses, which is also true. Also that both at the same time, I,

which is sad. Cause I kind of want to be friends with Zach Bagans after all we've been through together that he doesn't know about. Yeah. Same. Um, anyway, maybe he'll have it in his heart to forgive one day that's all um hope so this is the story of the uh island of the dolls oh i've been waiting for this one so i thought this was pavilion island and i don't know why i thought they were the same thing but i assumed because i had covered pavilion and that was a ghost

adventures episode two i think i just mixed them up so i kept telling everyone i'd covered it when i hadn't i remember when you covered that and i i was waiting the entire time for the dolls to show up and then they didn't and so now yeah so i think we have similar maybe it's some sort of like like weird uh glitch in the matrix thing maybe or maybe it's just two haunted islands and we got them mixed up so or maybe it's just two idiots who don't know what we're talking about so uh this is the island of the dolls also known as oh i was to try to say it in Spanish and I remembered I don't speak Spanish oh what Ila de las

Munecas okay goodbye I'm just going to be silent anyone who speaks Spanish please don't come at me I'm aware of how terrible that was so in this is apparently in the channels of Xochimilco which is south of the um south of

mexico city um and apparently the island is in a chinempa chinempa which is apparently uh like an area of land surrounded by a lake so it's like just several channels and it happens to be on one property, like one of the little chunks of land surrounded by all this water. Okay. Does that make sense? Okay. So on the, it's on the Laguna de Tuxilo.

This is literally why I haven't fucking covered this story. This is why. It's all making sense. is so uh basically so basically there are these channels and on these different uh chunks of land throughout the water channels that you're rowing through or i think they even have like a ferry or a motorboat that you can go through if you're doing like a tourist attraction version of it. Different sites have different attractions, basically. So there's one land like when you like dock your boat, you can get off and you can see like a play or something like that. One of them happens to be like the abandoned island of the dolls is what I'm trying to get out here in English.

I follow now. Um, I follow. So yes. Uh, so there are other spots. Uh, the other spots are ones, a museum.

Uh, the play is the play that I was talking about is actually the La Llorona play. It's about like the, and I covered, uh, I covered La Llorona in episode 92. Fun fact, if you want to go listen to what that story is about. Um, but so the only access is

through the waters. So most people row or at least willing to transport people on their own boats personally. Um, but when it comes to the actual island of the dolls so many people like refuse to row tourists there because they're so superstitious about what's going on oh okay um but if you're lucky you i think they actually do a tour now that will take you there during like halloween i think during like the the week of like the day of the Dead celebrations. Right. I think they do a tourist attraction to that island. But other than that, I think you kind of just have to know somebody who's willing to take you. Or be Zach Bagans.

Or be Zach Bagans, exactly. Yes. Another reason why I wish we were friends with him so we could have those connections. You understand what I'm saying? I understand, actually. And now I actually am kind of on the same boat as you. I know. It was bad, let's let's not address it we have to be careful in the future because what if he pretends that he's friends with us so we can make connections like that and be like can you send us to the island of the dolls and then he'll pay people a million dollars

to never bring us back I don't think he's gonna have to pay anyone a million dollars to leave us somewhere to be honest with you I don't think he's going to have to pay anyone a million dollars to leave us somewhere. To be honest with you, I don't think he's going to have to pay very much. So, um, so the Island of the dolls has been featured in articles, um, in the Huffington post.

Uh, it's also been on the travel channel, ABC news, a lot of places have covered it. Um, and it's the world's largest, according to Guinness world records, it's the world's largest collection to guinness world records it's the world's largest collection of haunted dolls and a major tourist attraction so um i like how there's like

apparently competition for that of like no the most haunted dolls in one spot um so there is so the company i was talking about is called Flashpack, and they're the tourist company that has going to this island as part of a package to go to Mexico during the Day of the Dead celebrations. So travelers can be a part of the rituals to honor the dead. I'm going to pretend that people are actually there for genuine cultural education and not just because they're shitty wealthy people appropriating anything. But so you can come to the Island of the Dolls. To be in this package, by the way, it's a nine-day package, $3,300 for the whole package. Oh, my. Wait, so how many days?

It's a nine-day package where you do several different things across Mexico for the Day of the Dead celebrations. Got it. I mean, I guess if that includes food, maybe it's worth it. I don't know that it includes food, though. I don't know if it does. I'm going to have to find out. I appreciate that it's a little expensive. So like not everyone's just going to go do this, you know.

Sure. Including us. Including us. If it was 20 bucks, I'd be like, we're going to Mexico. So in the 1950s is when the Island of the Dolls

story begins. So the dolls were collected by a former resident named Don Julian Santana Barrera. And the story is kind of fishy, but the general consensus is he found, he saw a girl drowning in the water by his land and he tried to save her but couldn't get to her in time. Ugh.

know if he saw her drowning tried to save her and then couldn't or already found her dead assumed she drowned and then just had this overwhelming guilt that had he gotten there earlier something like that i see so he later on after she had died saw a doll in the water and assumed it was hers so he grabbed it from the water and hung it up on a tree in honor of her goose can already already yeah i know so after he hangs up this doll on the tree he begins to hear weird noises and whispers he starts hearing screaming he starts hearing crying um he hears footsteps on the island which keep in mind like this is a plot of land surrounded by water and it's his property so like nobody else should be on this land um and so he's the day the day i hear crying in my house that's like i mean it's usually me but and it's his property. So like nobody else should be on this land. And so he's hearing footsteps. The day I hear crying in my house, that's like, I mean, it's usually me, but if it's not me, then like I'm leaving forever.

I'm sorry. I'll literally, you're going to show up in another box at my goddamn door and be like, this time, this time it's permanent. I feel like hopefully I didn't bring anything with me. You won't even tell me you made it to LA. You'll just text me like, meet me at the Cheesecake Factory. I already ordered you your cheesecake. Meet me at the factory. So, oh yeah. So they're miles from anyone, so he should not be able to hear anything. And he starts hearing screaming like directly on his property. Don Julian later

started having other paranormal experiences on the Island. Um, he thought that the spirit of the girl probably couldn't move on or maybe even wouldn't move on. Like maybe just felt safe there and didn't want to move on. Um, and he would find more and more baby dolls drifting up to the Island. Oh God.

Um, find more and more baby dolls drifting up to the island oh god um he took it as a sign and began collecting the dolls as offerings to the little girl but also like i would immediately be freaked out if i were surrounded by water and from all directions these random dolls were coming up on shore like i would just be uncomfortable like where the fuck did these dolls come from like why are there so many there are a lot of questions already that have not been answered i like how you just thought ah offerings for the girl spirit that ah this makes sense i'd be like a doll warehouse clearly like caught on fire and these little toy stories escaped like um okay so he yeah he found more baby dolls. He started hanging them up everywhere as a way to either help the little girl move on. Or if she decided to stay on the land and she was maybe evil in some way,

it was to keep her happy and appease her. And so basically the, the rumor is that Don Julian was kind of losing it and believe that the dolls, this is one random rumor that I found on one source, by the way. So I don't know if this is a universal understanding, but Don Julian apparently is rumored to have started losing it and thought

that the dolls were actually real children or the spirits of real children possessed these dolls that had also died in the canal. Okay. To be fair, if we were experiencing this and we heard crying at night like we would assume the exact same thing i mean maybe doll factory but probably we would assume dead children so i don't know like maybe toy story gone wrong maybe it's actually that there's just a slew of dead children spirits in these toys and now it's actually that there's just a slew of dead children's spirits in these toys and now it's no

good it's no good so in 2001 don julian had a heart attack on the island and he ends up dying ironically at the exact same spot where he found the girl oh okay and after he died the island became a major haunted tourist attraction um and locals claim the dolls come to life at night. So this literally is Toy Story gone wrong. Very, very wrong. Locals say that this is kind of precious, but also like maybe a little Stockholm syndrome-y. And that like the locals say like, oh, it's not haunted. The land is just charmed.

It's like, okay. Okay. We're really sugarcoating this one. Because they say it's not haunted, but they all do say that the dolls will call you, whisper to you, move on their own, open their eyes, laugh, smile, turn their heads, and lure people onto the island, presumably to kill them. But the island's not haunted. It's just charmed. It's just charmed. It's just magical.

A magical place. I just really hate that I just started talking about hearing voices in my house, and now you're talking about this. This is not a good combo for me. If those murmurs turn into, like, direct orders, that's when you gotta go. Oh, okay. So it's become common practice at this point for visitors

to actually bring their own offerings. Oftentimes they are their own dolls in exchange for either like blessings for the land or like protection on them as like, please don't follow me off of this land. Okay, stay here.

Fair. I would literally, I'd be like, what was that girl's favorite 10 to 100 favorite candies? I'll bring literally all of them in a basket. That's like Robert, you know, like turning up his Robert the Doll. Literally. I mean, Robert the Doll would fit very well here. He's probably the mayor of this goddamn island.

So that's the only information I could find after looking through multiple sites so the rest of this is just um ghost adventures so okay what makes this super fun is that zach bagans has a massive phobia of dolls and makes it very clear that he like does not want to do this episode then why does he have peggy in his museum i guess for that reason i guess everyone's got a an achilles heel and his his name is his is named peggy so um so is mine by the way so So I'm just gonna, I literally just kind of wrote an account of the episode. Basically, the canals are well known, according to this episode, to have very negative energy because on these waters was the Mexican Revolution in 1911. And bodies were apparently dumped here and skeletons were later pulled out like kind of by the bundle.

There was just like lots of bodies in the water. And Zach is going over by boat and he sees the theater company performing the La Llorona play. So that's where I got that information. So just to recap in case you want to go listen to episode 92 where I covered La Llorona, it's about a woman who drowns her children and is trapped kind of between life and death. So apparently on the island where they perform the show, which is interesting because it's a separate island than the island of the dolls. But on that land where they perform La Llorona, one of the, they think the original little girl ghost actually wanders over there sometimes for the play. Oh, well, that's fun.

I mean, it's fun when I'm not there for sure. It's fun to like think about from a very far distance. Yes. It's, it's fun to know that she's not near me because she's over there. But so apparently, uh, where they perform the show, the little girl will literally sometimes appear in the performance and then there'll be like, why was there a little girl here?

There is no little girl on the Island. Um, so again, they think this could be the same little girl from the Island of the dolls. Um, apparently Don Julian on his own he was visited a lot by the girl um and the dolls were just obviously there to keep the peace um one of the boat rowers i don't know if he was the guy who actually rode uh who rode zach to the

island or maybe he was just passing by and saw that they were doing a segment and he asked to be on camera. And he said that two weeks previously to them, to when that recording was happening, apparently this boat rower, he was going through the canal and heard drumming and it was getting closer and closer to a point where he felt like the drumming was coming from his boat. And he thought he was going to have a heart attack.

And he said that it became really violent and then all of a sudden he just went completely catatonic he couldn't see or hear what people were saying um he wouldn't respond to his family and they he literally had to be exercised by a shaman oh goodness um and apparently after this he got at least he had to be on camera, though. Like, hey, can I can I step in here for a moment? Honestly, if you I feel like you deserve five minutes in the spotlight if you're going to. Absolutely. So apparently after the ceremony, he said he could feel the shaman get scared and he felt the energy leave his body and go into the shaman. So like the shaman became

possessed on his behalf um so that's pretty terrifying so anyway they think it's interesting that that happened while he was rowing through the canals which is on the water that's has all these bodies underneath it um so they don't know if the land is necessarily haunted, but the water surrounding all the islands is. So they get to the island. It looks very, very disturbing. It looks exactly like what you're expecting an island of dolls to look like. Zach does not want to get off the boat.

Surprisingly, he does not look like he's acting this time around. He very much does not want to get off the boat. he does not look like he's acting this time around he very much does not want to get off the boat um and they meet up with don's nephew uh anastasio and apparently he's the one that found don's body in the water oh shit so apparently there's i hadn't seen this anywhere excuse me i hadn't seen this anywhere. Excuse me. I hadn't seen this anywhere. But in this episode alone, all of a sudden there's talks about like mermaids in the culture that apparently they believe in mermaids. And so they think that apparently there was a big fish in the water when Don's nephew went to go grab his uncle out of the water. He saw this massive snake in the water. And apparently that snake or this, not a snake, sorry, this big fish was in the water next to the dead body.

And apparently that big fish is not common in that area. And so they think that the fish is either a mermaid or some sort of underwater demon that took his soul. Oh, oh, that's not. Zach sees the shrine, the original shrine for the little girl.

And he, they also point out to Zach, the original doll that Don found in the water that he thought was the little girls who died. Um, and basically Zach is very terrified. I recommend this episode if you're interested in watching that. I am. I am.

This is a quote when they were pointing out some of the dolls near, like, the original shrine. Dawn's nephew says, they move in a particular way, not like they move just one arm or their eye it's the whole body oh so the doll's literally just like come to life oh god okay one apparently makes crying sounds as if the doll has batteries but it's not a battery powered doll. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Uh, so they leave the Island for more research and Zach,

uh, basically says, okay, this is my favorite part of the whole fucking episode. So like, just get ready. Crystal me. So,

okay. So they leave the Island for more research and Zach tells the, the rest of his crew, like, okay, well, we have, we're bringing a guest with us to the island tonight. And he has this old fucking suitcase, right? He's like, the guest is in the suitcase. Stop. So he warns the crew, not just his crew, but like the camera crew. So he warns the crew, not just his crew, but like the camera crew.

He's like, nobody except me is going to touch this suitcase tonight. And nobody's going to look, speak to, or touch our guest. And he opens up the suitcase and it's Harold the doll. No. The Harold. I remember watching the episode at three in the morning and I was like, I am lucid dreaming. Like I'm having like some sort of like Marvel cinematic universe, like a crossing of worlds here. Right. Like he doesn't have Harold.

Right. He has Peggy. No, he has. He has Peggy. And then I assume at some point, I don't know if he has yet, but I expect him to own Annabelle because Annabelle is in the Warren Museum. And since the Warrens are dead, I kind of just expect that he's gonna buy the whole fucking museum um we got Harold apparently I don't I don't know but the owner was on site and so the owner like just warned them uh it was like I'm not letting you take him without my my chaperoning right so by the way if you have not if you're listening backwards

through our podcast and you haven't gotten to Herald the Bell yet, probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. That was the creepiest thing. That was a good one. And,

so it was episode 86, by the way. Also, to remind everyone of the update we got after that episode was Herald the Doll literally fucking reached out to us.

Like, his owner tweeted us and said that he'd listened to the episode and said that he listened to the episode and said that we did a good job with it which is terrifying they're just terrifying exactly so we have a link to harold and now zb has a link to harold so we have we're one degree away basically like wait a minute like six degrees of kevin bacon like we're one degree away from harold the doll actually zero because he's spoken we're zero we're one degree away from Harold the doll. Actually, zero, because he's spoken to us. We're zero. We're one away from ZB, though.

I see what you're saying. Yes, I agree. And it's, I don't like it. Another little recap real quick on Harold the doll. So, he laughs, sings, moves on his own. One time, a priest told the family to burn it and it wouldn't burn. It wouldn't catch on fire. It's just a fucking terrifying doll.

It's really one of my favorite episodes we've ever covered. A lot of people did not like it because it was so scary. You're welcome. Doing my job. We got people, I mean, legitimately saying like I got into a fender bender or I had a migraine for the first time in 20 years. And we were like, we really should have put out a waiver or something because we got a lot of emails after that one.

Well, I think because PTD, I think, came after Harold. And so I wasn't taking any risks with that one. I was like, OK, the last time a lot of people said they like one was like, oh, yeah, I was listening to the episode. And then my dad got like a heart attack, like something really traumatic remember that one we were like what do we do I was like okay well so then I talked about ptd and I gave a content warning and I was like I will never say that doll's full name um anyway so another thing about Harold one of the things that freaked me out was apparently if you look into the doll's eyes or at least with one of the family one of the owners who got passed down to at one point

looked Harold in the eyes and then said that she had a massive migraine and went to the hospital later and found out she had a brain tumor um I mean this which like by the way if you have a migraine right now and you're listening to our podcast you do not have a brain tumor I'm not like fucking no no no no no no no I promise don't listen to em and don't listen to webmd both not medical professionals just turn off the podcast um so anyway so harold the doll will be their uh escort through the island of dolls this is insanity and so don's nephew uh definitely feels a lot of energy on the island when he's there um and apparently when people come with bad energy, that's when the negative vibes happen. So I think that kind of ties into their belief that the island is charmed, not haunted.

Because if you come with a good outlook and good intentions, then nothing scary will happen. But if you bring scary intentions with you, then it's got it. Not a good look. So Zach takes Harold to a psychic on the island who says that Harold has five spirits inside of him, and it says that he likes to make people sick. How fun. It's his favorite playtime activity. You know, the swings swings giving people tumors so so don uh makes contact

uh so like don julian who died makes contact with the media while they're having this uh conversation and says that his favorite doll is named uh augustinita who i i guess has her own shrine on the island and when this is a very Christine thing from Beyond the Grave. Says, when you go on the island tonight, I want you guys to cheers for me with my favorite drink. Oh, that's fun. That's another playtime. I think so. That's Christine's favorite playtime activity, pressuring people to drink with me.

No, no. Christine's favorite activity is doing the drinking. Okay, fine. My favorite activity is waiting for somebody to ask me to drink on their behalf. How's that? Yes. You wish someone in your Gemini spirit, you wish someone would hand you a drink and then say, this is for you because you're amazing. And then you face it. And always the times when I say, I'm not going to drink tonight, I don't think. And then I'm like,

hello, where's my spirit guide? That just kind of says, come on, you're okay. You're going to be fine. So a medium, the medium says that the big fish in the water is a massive snake said to be a spirit living with the dead. Sometimes takes the form of a mermaid, which kind of matches with the cultural belief, I think, at the time. The little girl is said to also be taken by the snake. So in that case, Dawn and the little girl were both killed by the same thing in the same spot. Oh.

And the medium says to look out for their hands and arms because that's where the ghosts on the island like to attack first. Oh, to watch out for their own arms. Watch out for your hands and arms. And apparently. No, no, no, no. I think she meant that specifically for Harold too, where she was like, look out for your hands and arms because Harold's going to try to hurt you there first. Oh my God.

Okay. So interestingly enough, Zach, because he's the only one that's touching the doll they have it on camera that when he pulled harold the doll out of the suitcase he grabbed him by uh he kind of grabbed uh just his full body the full body of the doll but he had been told earlier to be careful with harold's left arm because it was slowly starting to kind of tear off excuse me and interestingly zach's left arm starts to feel a lot of pain and you see these bruises. Literally, I mean, I don't think this was makeup or anything. You could see real bruises forming on Zach's arm that looked like a little baby hand. Ew!

It was the creepiest. Like little doll hands that I'm sure if you put harold's arm up next to it it would have matched his fingers um so uh this is i i can't obviously tell the ghost adventures episode without giving you like a zachism of the episode thank you so here is what i found to be the most, uh, emo dramatic sentence to come out of him. Yes. They were rowing towards the Island for their nighttime investigation. And he says, which I don't even think by the way,

is a full sentence. Um, this ancient canal system is like a network of veins pumping this cursed water mixed with the blood and souls of all the bodies dumped here polluting the bottom with bones it just sounds like he's trying a little too hard it sounds like i would have written that that's like the title to my zanga article yeah your zanga article yeah that's like the title of like one of my uh journal entries from 10th grade just like just like a quick poem i wrote it's like it's a post it's a myspace survey post and like then you click it and it's not as dark

as you thought because it's like have you been kissed before um it's like when they fill you they make you fill those things out hoping like that your crush or whoever reads it where it's like when was the last time you cried what was your what's your favorite color and then it's like, when was the last time you cried? What was your, what's your favorite color? And then it's like, what's your favorite line of poetry? The bottom is cursed with bones. So it's like, this is the only poetry you need. It's by Zach Bagelbeitz. So immediately they start hearing knocks on the building and they hear someone throwing cans around on the island.

And for no reason at all, I got to say like, if this is real, it's real fucking freaky. Um, for no reason at all, all of a sudden, right where they had been standing when they got off of the boat and no

one has gotten off of the, or has gotten on or off the island since right where they originally stood, they turned around and all of a sudden a fire has started itself no what literally and it's getting bigger like they're filming it being like how the fuck did this happen and it's like slowly growing into like a kind of big campfire i mean that had to be like a pa or something right like they're i really like to think it's someone like smoking a cigarette and they just kind of toss it or something. Right. And then they're like, it wasn't me. I don't know who did it. It's a ghost. If that were real, I hate it.

And so Zach goes into the shrine of the dolls, is about to take out Harold the doll. And one of the dolls on the wall starts cackling by itself when it doesn't have batteries. Nope. No, no, no, no, no no problem full-blown like the creepiest little girl like tickle me elmo laugh and you can hear it you can hear it for sure oh god okay and it's i again i like to try to keep an open mind on this but again i it didn't look like he was acting he was definitely more freaked out than in most episodes because he was literally on an island full of the thing he hates the most.

His worst fear. And like it started laughing and he bolts it. Like he's like, fuck this. Oh no. And so apparently you can also see a shadow man walking on the island. They heard people singing. They heard a girl screaming and crying. They also go to the hut where Don actually lived on the island.

um they also go to the hut where dawn actually lived on the island and uh they have his friend come with them on the island to like talk to dawn for them and uh basically they say if you're not comfortable with the people here let us know and then a black orb shoots out from the hut which you can see on camera they all take a shot together as per the per his request that's fun and then they bring out the spirit box, and the spirit box seems to react whenever his friend is talking to him, whenever Don's friend is reaching out. And then they hear footsteps and a shadow appears on the camera. And Zach basically says,

are you trapped inside of these dolls? And an EVP said, or I think he's holding Harold as he says that, are you trapped in these dolls? And he gets an EVP of a man very clearly saying, I don't like her, stupid. And he's like pointing at a bunch of like feminine-esque looking dolls. Oh God.

And he says, I don't like her, stupid. Zach then says that he feels a hand run down his back and he feels ice cold. And infrared does show there are extreme temperature changes near Harold the doll. So he goes from extreme cold to extreme heat on its own without being touched like the doll itself does. So that is the story of the island of the dolls, mainly through eyes of zach bagel bites oh my goodness i just love that they took a shot in the middle of all of that i do too also like you know if you go before me christine i'm gonna have to learn how to drink in honor of you i'm gonna be like you gotta help me out what did they take a shot of do we know we do but i didn't write it down but it was apparently Don's favorite drink and I hadn't heard of it before.

Okay. Damn. I'm curious. Um, okay. Well, that was terrifying. Thank you so much for bringing dolls back into our subconscious.

You are welcome. All right. Um, I am very excited for my story today. Uh, and I hope you are too. I am very excited to hear about it. Uh,

I heard the excitement in your voice, which spiritually boosts my levels as well. Oh, good. Okay. Well, I think other people are going to be excited about it too, because this is an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, which recently just came back on Netflix. And we've gotten a lot of uh requests to watch it and questions about whether we're watching it and i so i binged the whole thing in about one evening and um everyone was i noticed everyone was asking me to cover the disappear or the murder of ray

rivera and i was like i don't remember that at all. Then I went to Netflix and somehow I skipped that episode only. Like, I don't know how it Oh, well, actually, I think what happened was I watched the UFO episode first. And so then I somehow accidentally skipped Ray Rivera. But I felt like it was a sign. So I started watching it and I took some notes and then I got like way in deep in a few rabbit holes about it. So this is the mysterious murder. There's so many of them and we always fall into them. This is the mysterious murder of Ray Rivera.

And I'm just going to I'm also like on an unsolved kick. So like the next couple of stories that I'm covering are unsolved cases. So just knuckle and buckle, baby. This is going to be fun. Knuckle and buck. Knuck and buck. That's what I always say. We try it.

We keep trying to make it a thing. It's not working. When I say that's what I always say, I mean, that's only me. That's all that I say. That's what I say. No one else enjoys it or wants to say it themselves. So I guess I'll say let's crack into it. Okay, so this is the story of Ray Rivera.

So Ray Rivera was a 32-year-old screenwriter and aspiring filmmaker. He and his wife Allison lived in California, but in 2006, they decided to move to Baltimore, where Ray could work with his lifelong friend, Porter Stansberry. Porter, his friend Porter, had an investment company called Stansberry and Associates, and he had always wanted Ray to come work with him. And Ray initially declined this offer. And then after a while, he realized he wasn't really making much headway in the film industry. So he and Allison compromised and said, okay, why don't we move to Baltimore for two years, 24 months, and like he'll work and make some money and then he can try his hand at screenwriting

again to like try and get back into the industry. So Porter and Ray had been friends since high school. They had played water polo together, like had gone to proms together. Like they were just really, they went way back. And so when Allison and Ray moved to Baltimore, they were a little anxious about like moving all the way across the country, but they pretty quickly found a beautiful home. They like made a really happy life there. And like within, I think like a month they were like set and they were like, we were so happy we moved. They had only been married for six months at this point. And by all accounts that I've heard, they were very much in love, very happy, like hadn't, you know, super early into their marriage to probably still like honeymoon phase. And from what I've heard from the fam, both families, like they were just, you know, living their lives and happy as clams. clams um so on may 2 okay may 16 2006 allison uh left for a business trip early in the morning and ray woke up with her he made her breakfast he carried her suitcase to the car um they kissed

each other goodbye and she said i love you so much and he said thank you for loving me so much which i just thought was the sweetest little exchange um it is really sweet they were apparently lovebirds um allison heads out on her trip and throughout the day gives ray a call but for whatever reason he's not picking up and that's pretty unusual because they talk multiple times a day um so she just thinks it's strange that he wouldn't be answering i feel like the last like I guess maybe not consistently but in the last several recordings I feel like your stories have all been like oh and the husband didn't answer the first time in 18 years like didn't answer the phone. I feel like you had that

in the last one too where like all of a sudden like he ended up probably killing his wife or something like that and. But Jeffrey Dahmer? No, it was one that you just, you must have just covered only within the last couple weeks. But it was, like, the, they always had, like, a scheduled, like, standing call at 8.30 in the morning with each other. I already forget what that was. Oh, well, I remember you just, like, told that story, and so that was oh well i remember you just like told that

story and so that immediately came back i was like this has been like a month ago or a while ago though because before jeffrey dahmer i did the two cases the two um right uh dominique fells so i don't know i mean i'll i'll go back and peruse my brain doesn't hold that much information no i do remember that i just am back and peruse my brain doesn't hold that much information thing up no i do remember that i just am embarrassed because i should remember the story but i don't remember what i covered last week it's fine don't worry about it it's okay i shouldn't have i don't know why i did that thing where i like challenged you on something you probably had no no we always do that to each other and i should remember it i do i do vaguely remember that story oh yeah and

like oh god i forget yeah i do remember telling that story though um okay so right he doesn't pick up the phone um and they had a house guest named claudia staying with them who was one of allison's colleagues and allison calls claudia and is like so ray isn't answering my calls do you know where he is and claudia says okay so ray received a phone call around 5 30 or 6 30 this evening during which he said oh shit and rushed out of the house and uh allison's like has he come back and she says oh he came back inside shortly after as if he had forgotten something then ran back out jumped in allison's suv and drove off okay so allison's like alarmed by this because she knows

he's working on this huge project for stansberry and associates where he works um but at this point he's been working from home for a really long time so there's like no reason he should be going into the office um especially so like frantically so she's a little weirded out especially because he's not answering her phone calls and then the next morning claudia calls allison again and says okay i have some bad news ray didn't come home at all last night after rushing off in the suv so allison's like something is definitely wrong um she calls ray's mom who lives in puerto rico and his brother angel and they both fly in like immediately because they immediately know something is not right. And they know Ray is not one to just vanish and not tell anyone where he's

going. So when Allison returns from her trip, her house is almost like, it was described like a time capsule almost, or like it was like stopped in time. So her black SUV is gone, but in the kitchen, there's an open can of soda, a half-eaten bag of chips. His Invisaligns are sitting on the counter. All the lights are on in the house, like his office and bedroom lights are on. So it just almost looks like as if somebody just like plucked him out of the scene, basically. It's so wild. I know I've mentioned this before, and this has nothing to do with the story, but I'm

a Gemini, and I'm going to make it about me. But the slaughter pen that I used to always go to in high school. Oh, God, yeah. It was so weird when you would look into the windows and like, I don't, you would think they would have an explanation publicly stated about what happened there. But like, you can look in the windows and literally it looks like someone was just plucked out. Like you can see like cat food sitting in a bowl, just waiting to be given to a cat.

You can see a cabinet is open, and you can see dishes and cups in there. It just looks like a scene where the legend in Fredericksburg is a family just straight up abandoned, just walked out one day and just never came back and it looks like in a in a frenzy it's very creepy so it's just left everything that's the creepiest part is like it's just untouched something about that just like like something scared them they just ran off and never came back right like it was that that alarming or that scary that it wasn't worth like even putting

your invisaligns away or whatever it may be right right or grabbing your soda right so it's just like extra spooky so she's definitely on edge at this point all the lights are on too and they had been overnight so something's really weird um allison's and ray's families both arrive they uh stay at allison's place and they the dining room becomes like their kind of home base for their search. They didn't call police right away. They were like, OK, maybe this is just a misunderstanding. And he went somewhere and forgot to tell us. So they start searching hospitals looking for a John Doe. They're canvassing the streets, hoping they can figure out what's going on without calling the police. hoping they can figure out what's going on without calling the police and porter who the guy the friend who had convinced him to move to baltimore um put up a reward of a thousand dollars and got the media involved in an attempt to find ray and at this point there had been no transactions whatsoever made on ray's credit cards um their his cell phone was dead when they called it uh allison's and ray's bank account like no money had been taken out so this is all a bad sign because the phone's dead the credit cards are

silent right something's not right um like i said the car was also missing so every so often um so ever so often a few of them would go searching the streets like looking for the suv because at least then they'd have kind of a clue um where they went maybe or like another step to like yeah where they dropped the car or exactly because it was at this point it's just like he's been like plucked out of his house and they have zero idea like no clue where the hell he could possibly be just vanished just vanished so they want like one thing to go off of and fortunately um six days after his disappearance allison's parents are out searching for the car when her mom spots it in a parking lot downtown so they find the car

yeah and this is like a huge deal like the first quote-unquote break in the case if you will um so the car had a ticket on it that was dated the day after ray disappeared uh leading them to believe it had been parked there pretty much since the night he vanished. Oh, boy. Yeah. So the parking attendant said the car was not there the night Ray disappeared when he got off of work, but when he arrived for work the next morning,

it was there. So essentially, it had been parked there that night and had been there for six straight days. So not good. And this part, this was in the Unsolved episode. And I don't know why, but this kind of broke my heart. It was Allison kind of, she said, I was standing here when we found the car looking around in this random parking lot. And she's like looking up at the sky and at the buildings.

And she just keeps saying, why are you here? Why would you be here? What were you looking for? Or who were you meeting? Like she's like saying she was trying to get into his head and trying to understand. Cause she's like, we were so close.

Like I just wanted to understand what the hell he was doing here. Like if there's any way I could figure out what purpose this parking lot holds. It's a, it's a, it's like the sad version of in the office when like Holly, like is able to trace Michael's every step. It's like, oh, well, he clearly wants to know, is that the biggest egg roll?

I got to go over there and go to that Chinese restaurant. And they find his photo on the wall. But yeah, I imagine it's a very sad version of that, like trying to figure out what direction he would have even walked. Right, exactly. Like get into his head and be like, what were you thinking um and that's actually really creepy that you brought that up because the next thing they do is a couple of his co-workers go up to a rooftop um to see if like i'm not even making this up to see like if they can figure out uh anything

from up high or like look around and see if they can spot anything. And so they climbed on top of this parking garage roof to look around. And while up there, they spotted something odd down below on one of the roofs attached to a building called the Belvedere Hotel. So the Belvedere Hotel used to be a historic hotel. It had since been turned into condominiums but it has that very classic like creepy old school hotel vibe where they're like leaning into the traditional decor and everything and it looks haunted and spooky um so that's kind of the the vibe that this hotel has um kind of like the fister or wherever we stayed uh yeah i remember milwaukee yeah like yes the fister yeah damn that was a creepy fucking hotel that was a freaky hotel i mean that's so i think the

most freaky was that one in uh new orleans but where we met michael but hands down but i mean we literally we were not even we were boarding our or uh we were buying our plane tickets to new orleans and we were like well obviously this boarding our or we were buying our plane tickets to New Orleans and we were like well obviously this is going to be the creepiest fucking experience we've ever had that's true we knew that going into it you're right and I booked us like the most haunted hotel I could find so that was my dad I came into New Orleans a night before you guys and I wanted to stay at the the Delphine or the oh yeah some the Delphine hotel I think yes it's all it's supposed to be like the one of the most haunted

hotels outside the one you went to and the second i got in there i was like unpacking my bag and the tv wouldn't stop turning on and off by itself and i was like okay well great and like christina's even here for me to run to yeah that was the only good thing is that we could go to each other's rooms in that one hotel every time the ghost child showed up yeah um yeah so this is a creepy ass hotel let's just put it that way um so they look down and they see uh this rooftop and they see something odd on top of the roof and it's uh a small hole so they spot this small hole um and it's like this flat white roof and then a smashed hole kind of into the otherwise smooth surface. So they see this hole and they call 911 immediately to be like,

hey, we're looking for our friend who disappeared and we found this weird hole. Can somebody come check it out? So the police arrived to check out the Belvedere Hotel. They asked the property manager to open the door and apparently where this roof was um the room was the old racket club uh or it was also called the old church space so already sounds haunted as hell to me i would not go there and like creepily enough on top of the next to the hole upstairs they took a closer look and they found a pair of flip-flops and a cell phone so that's what's on top of the roof now they go inside the space um and the property manager opens the door and immediately they are hit with a foul stench and it is the stench of a dead body yeah so they see blood coming down the wall.

It is Ray. His legs are positioned toward the door and you can look up through the hole and see the sky through it. So the ceiling is this like metal roof and the hole had just been busted right through it. They actually interviewed like the former. I was going to say, so did he like it's like he just fell through the roof and then just lied there looking out at the sky, hoping someone finds him. Well, he wasn't looking out the sky. I'm just saying, like, if you looked in and looked up, you could see through the hole like it was big enough where you could look out. But I mean, yes. So the idea is that he fell through the hole and obviously died at that point.

I see. On impact, presumably. and obviously died at that point um i see on impact presumably um but so basically i just said that so that you can understand how big like the hole's big enough to look out of um where you can see and it's not very big like you could kind of you'd kind of have to like squeeze your way into it um but it is big enough uh for somebody to fit through it gotcha um so they interviewed the former manager gary and he's the one who had found the body. He mentioned in this Unsolved episode that to this day, when sometimes when he opens a door, he'll have a flashback of the body. And he says it like haunts him. So I mean,

this was like extremely traumatic for him. I just thought that was really sad and scary. That he still has like flashbacks to this day when he's just minding his own business and opens the door and finds a body. Ray's body was examined. It was a wreck. He had broken ribs, punctured lungs, multiple lacerations that were seven to nine inches long. He had damage to his skull, two breaks in his right leg to where the bone was protruding through the leg. Um, and just more,

even more injuries than that. Um, pretty immediately. Yeah. It was very, uh, gruesome, just very,

his body was destroyed basically. Yeah. So at this point they pretty immediately consider, uh, Ray's death a suicide. And, uh, and by that,

by they, they they i mean the baltimore police um they believe he had jumped from the top of a nearby building onto this roof and had busted through and died on impact so they're looking at this as a fall kind of going through like a projectile sort of um and and hitting the floor of this like abandoned room pretty much and so and i is is the uh the general unsolved mystery why was he jumping from roof to roof like parkour or something or going back to the office um i mean i can't think of another reason why you're unless you're spider man or some shit like that well so they believe it's suicide at this point oh fuck wow i'm an asshole okay i thought we were just jumping from building to building for like recreation okay no no no sorry so the baltimore police assume right away that

this is a suicide and that he jumped from a high roof onto this surface and was killed on impact um i'm sure you literally said that and it just clearly didn't. My brain was clearly trying to think about parkour as you're giving me the answer and I'm not listening to you. I'm so sorry. That's okay. I should have said it more assertively. I don't know. You literally probably said the word suicide and I was thinking about parkour. So I was not paying attention. My bad. Okay. Well, there it is. There's theour. So I was not paying attention. My bad. Okay. Well, there it is. There's the update. So I guess now we're hopefully all on the same page. Yes. I was the last one to get suicide.

It's okay. We'll wait for you. Don't worry. So like I said, they're looking at this as if he had gone through the roof, like a projectile sort of. But this is where things start to get weird. Okay. So remember how I said his phone was found near the hole? Yes. With flip flops. With the flip flops.

So they take his phone and they find it completely undamaged, not a scratch. It literally works like they charge it up and it works like a normal phone. And I mean, this is before iPhone. So it's like it wasn't like a glass, you know, fragile object. If what you're telling me is it was a Nokia, then of course it survived. Right. Okay. Fair point. If it was like a BlackBerry or something. Yeah, those are pretty tough. But it didn't even get a scratch. Like was perfectly preserved um his flip-flops were fine and then the other weird thing is they found his glasses nearby and they also were completely uh preserved no scratch nothing on his glasses okay and it's just weird because the state of his body was so damaged that like not even a scratch on the

glasses is just a strange uh inconsistency i guess um so along with that the medical examiner also ruled ray's death inconclusive saying the injuries were inconsistent with a fall and this is kind of like one of those contentious points because a lot of times a medical examiner will not make a statement either way because there's not enough evidence so it's not necessarily like damning if a medical examiner says like, oh, I don't know that this was a fall. Like it could just be they weren't 100% positive. But that being said, Allison said she met with a medical examiner, quote,

and I closed the door and she said, I know what they're trying to do. And we are not closing this case. And that is a weird mystery that even allison says that they said that what wasn't consistent with the fall was the way that his shins were broken and that's all that she would say so basically allison talked to the emmy who was like i who said i know what they're trying to do and allison was like, I don't know what she meant by that, but it sounds really ominous. And also said that the shins, the way they were broken, didn't look like a fall. So a little bit fishy already.

So could this then be just like he owed money to a loan shark who did the classic breaking your kneecaps thing? like did the classic like breaking your kneecaps thing yeah so that there's definitely theories as to like whether this was a murder a suicide whatever um but i'll tell you those theories but i don't know if loan shark is one of them because they didn't have any money problems um okay and he was actually making pretty good money um but there are a couple theories that will get into that concern foul play so okay we shall see um so they okay so it would have been this is another weird point is that it would have been a 45 foot jump from the roof of the belvedere to the hole that he went through um and we'll put a picture in the youtube video basically that jump was described by one investigator as virtually impossible.

So this jump would have been 45 feet. And the jump was described by one investigator as virtually impossible. Of course, like Reddit sleuths are all over this trying to like, figure out the formula of a jump and how fast you'd have to be running to make this jump happen um there's one user named peanut baron who posted an engineering study obtained by the examiner concluded that based on the distance that rivera's body landed from the wall estimated uh to be roughly 43 feet he would have been running roughly 11 miles per hour and according to the telegraph the average man jogs at a speed of 8.3 miles per hour in 27 seconds. And he didn't have that much space to run on if you were on a rooftop. So essentially, he would have been having to like run really fast to be able to get that.

Sprinting with all his might. Yes. And the other weird thing is he was really in shape, but he was also wearing flip flops. So like, right. Okay, kind of weird. He would have had to be like sprinting really quickly other weird thing is he was really in shape but he was also wearing flip-flops so like right okay it's kind of weird he would have had to be like sprinting really quickly in order to make it that far of a jump which is just a strange you know i guess you don't necessarily always see that if someone is jumping off a building uh like such an extreme running start i don't know i mean maybe but right especially with such a short distance you said like he didn't have yeah a lot of time to gain momentum or anything. Exactly. That was the other weird thing. And since his flip flops presumably came with him to the bottom and weren't even like, you know, messed up, then that's another just strange fact. So let's see. The other weird thing is that Ray's so Ray had this money clip that Allison had given him. It was heirloom of her family and it was never found and it's weird because he was always known to carry with him um like always his wife actually saw it that morning when she left for her business trip

he had it on him that day so it's just strange like it could have fallen somewhere else but since all his other belongings were right there it just seemed weird that it was missing it wasn't on his body um so that's just another strange thing and since then it's never been found right um and now this is like another thing that these are all very circumstantial so i'll just put that out there but they are you know a little they put they put a little doubt at least in my mind um and another weird thing is that he had this extreme fear of heights and it was like debilitating to the point that allison was like he would never she was like even if he was taking his own life like this is not the way he would do it like right he would never have been on this rooftop

under any circumstances um and so this is just another weird inconsistency where she's already at this point being like this something's wrong this is not what you're saying it is not doesn't check doesn't doesn't track right um so on top of that again i know very clearly that this does not count as solid proof or evidence um but from by all accounts ray was in an extremely happy place in his life and in his marriage um at least according to family and friends they couldn't find one person to say he was like depressed or considering taking his own life, which again, that doesn't prove anything. People have thoughts that other people don't know about. People don't always share their fears and anxieties and depressions with other people. So I am fully aware of that. It just sowed a seed of doubt in his family and friends who were like, we talked to him

every day. Like he was so fine and happy. And, um, he was already, they were already planning their move back to California. Um, he and Allison had been married six months. So they were like in blissful marriage heaven. Um, there was just, they had good money. Like they didn't have any money problems, which is often, you know, a stressor in these kinds of scenarios and uh he was also really really looking forward to having a baby

and so that was like their next step was moving back to california and he wanted to have a kid and so it just was a little bit strange that all of a sudden he would do this so dramatically um and there would be no inkling in anyone's mind. Again, this is just like other people's opinions. And I know in a lot of times in a suicide case, family and friends don't want to believe that that's what it was because there's like an element of guilt. Like, why didn't I see it or say something? So I do fully understand that that could, you know, just be what it was, but it is something else to take into account in my opinion right so this is where things start to get really weird um like like really creepy and strange okay so when searching

through their home allison um finds something that takes the case in like a super weird direction um she finds taped to the back taped to the back of ray's computer a teeny tiny folded up note containing a message okay according to marie claire i know i don't know they wrote a good write-up of the story so that's where i went all right according according why not um according to marie claire allison says she knows he wrote the note the day they that he disappeared because there were scraps in the trash can to indicate that this had just been written or typed out sure the font was like shrunk down to this like super tiny size um and the entire note was contained on a single piece of paper that had been folded so it was seven inches long

a piece of paper and then folded really tiny and taped behind his laptop or his computer in like a really hard to see spot. So like this was definitely mysterious already. Yes. The note begins, brothers and sisters, right now around the world, volcanoes are erupting. What an awesome sight. Whom virtue unites, death will not separate. So that's the beginning of the note. And,

uh, she's like, what? There's more. The fuck. There's a lot more. And, uh,

that last line is apparently a Masonic phrase. Um, okay. So that's, that was the first thing she kind of figured out. And apparently in the days and weeks leading up to his death, Ray had expressed an interest in joining his local chapter of the Freemasons. And actually the day he disappeared, he had bought the book Freemasons for Dummies.

So it did kind of fit that he was quoting the Masons, but also the note itself just becomes even weirder and wilder. I mean, this is kind of like a throwaway question that's not really important, but how did they find this note behind his computer? Were they just trying to take everything out of his office? Oh, no, so Allison found it. So she was digging through their stuff

and trying to find any clue about whether he... She was just trying to find what the hell is going on, and I guess she moved his laptop or looked behind his computer and found it taped to the back of my happenstance so she was looking yeah she was like digging around for anything she could find um okay and so according to the baltimore police department commander fred bielfeld quote based on what we've seen his interest in the masonic order was not to do charitable work somehow it was linked to his interest in the movie industry and this theory that there was control being exerted by the masonic order so the maryland lodge member who spoke with rivera told 11 news there was

nothing unusual about the conversation that they had had um he's he described it as typical of someone who wanted to learn about becoming a member. And the rest of the note was written in this sort of strange stream of consciousness style. It began and ended with Freemason's quotes. And then according to Newsweek, other excerpts included, quote, I'd like to welcome those who accepted our invitations for membership during the game. We couldn't have done it without you. I took on the endeavor to find the truth, but not for its own sake. In accepting this quest for the truth, I hope to make myself with the help of others into a man worthy and ready to receive it. And finally, it said members of the council, please note that I

will lend careful concentration to the traditional responsibilities. In light of those proceedings, I will satisfy the standard request of this council within the appropriate time and it just like made no sense to anybody uh including the masonic guy was like i don't know what he's talking about um wow okay really strange the note also listed several people that he knew although it was a little weird he left out some of his like closest friends family, but he listed as many people as he could think of. And he made a request in the note to make his friends five years younger, whatever that means. He also wrote out a list of movies, books, and music he found inspiring, including Meet Joe Black, Minority Report, The Bourne Identity, and Lord of the Rings. He also referenced film director Stanley Kub kubrick m night shamalan as

well as actor christopher reeve who had died a year earlier so it's like all over the place and like i mean i like how the police wanted like just one thing to go off of and now they've got just too much like exactly they're like this is now there's like 400 doors open all of a sudden of possible routes. Right. And all of them make less sense than the previous one. Exactly. Like they're just it's just like a jumble of nonsense. And Allison herself was like, I'm turning this in. So she turned this into the police. They turn it into the FBI. And the FBI actually looks at it, analyzes it and says they do not consider this a suicide note. They were like, based on the way this is written, this is not a suicide note. And that is not what he was intending

with this letter. So just another odd point. His brother Angel, for what it's worth, thinks this is a red herring and is like, I don't know what it is, but I don't think it necessarily has to do with his death. So that's possible too. but it is just a really weird coincidence that Alison found this and it had been written like right before he died. Interesting. I know that the only thing I know about Freemasons is like to, to join the, to join the next level or to get higher up or even to join it all.

Like your first big thing is you have to memorize a shitload of scripture. So like it would make sense if like like freemason scripture like i oh like i know that they have like books and it's basically like their version not literally like a religious bible but it's like their i don't know their guidebook or their the Jeffrey Mason book. And you have to memorize like hours of scripture or something like that. So maybe he was, maybe he kept it by his computer, like just to like, to memorize it. And if he could remember it,

he could like open it up and like read through it or something. I don't know. Like as like a study guide. What's that? Like the note you mean? Yeah. Like the notes. I'm just thinking about the notes specifically, but maybe like he left it on his computer.

But there was only two lines. Like there were only two lines that actually had to do with the Freemasons. And then the rest is just like lists of movies and actors. Oh, I thought those were, in my head, those were separate notes. And one of them was just like all about the Freemasons. Okay, I understand. No, so the note began and ended with Freemasons quotes. and then everything else was just like random ramblings all over the place about like his friends and family and um volcanoes and just like weird stuff that made no sense

whatsoever um idea that i was i was trying so hard i was, maybe that's it. I mean, maybe, but maybe it was some like a mnemonic device where like Christopher Reeve stands for like the Freemason. Maybe Minority Report and Lord of the Rings are like his favorite Freemasons. I don't know. I know. It's very strange. I mean, the only thing I know about the Freemasons is that they do not welcome women. So I was like, fuck you guys. So I don't really know what the hell this was about. And Allison had no clue either, which I think is telling. um ray was known to scribble random thoughts onto pieces of paper but this was different like allison was like it was never like this and he never like hid them out of view so that was a little weird um the fbi actually said it's not a suicide note but it may be a code so that was kind of creepy but to this day nobody has been able to decode it so if you guys want to try your hand at it you can look it up and see. Good luck to you because it's really confusing. Also, I will say that since the Unsolved episode aired,

there have been a couple more theories put out there by viewers of the show. And there's this one user named Zuma Lightblue who wrote, I am watching the Ray Rivera episode on Netflix. And what really caught my eye was the note Ray wrote on the day he died and he, and hid the note behind the computer. It had all these names of actors, his friends and family quotes from the Freemasons and a list of movies. One of these movies was the game. Immediately.

I thought, of course, there is one big scene at the end of the movie where the main character jumped off the roof of a fancy hotel and goes through a glass roof. The similarities to Ray are truly astonishing. The whole movie is about this crazy game that makes you think you lose everything in order to let you appreciate life again. Ray was an unsuccessful movie script writer, and maybe he got involved in something that tried to imitate the game in some way. So that's just one user's theory of like, maybe that's a connection. I see. Who knows? way so that's just one user's theory of like maybe that's a connection um i see who knows uh it's

still kind of out there in my opinion but it is an interesting like poll i guess yeah um again what like i said angel thinks it might just be a red herring but there are other weird inconsistencies um that kind of don't add up so for example no one at the hotel saw Ray the night he was killed. And like, the hotel is now condos, but it does have like a bar and a nightclub kind of right where where this secret room was, or this like blocked off room. And not one person saw him that evening, which is a little strange. And although the hotel cameras are fully option or operational, the footage from that night specifically was accidentally lost because the cameras malfunctioned so i know that happens but it's just a really

weird timing that they seem to work every other day yeah very convenient so another strange thing then there's a fact that before ray's disappearance allison noted that he had started to act pretty strange. So he seemed unsettled or worried and like paranoid almost, but nobody really knew why. So according to that same Reddit user, Peanut Baron, in the weeks leading up to Ray's death, his wife Allison stated that Ray had become much more protective of her, often insisting on accompanying her wherever she went. So this is a quote from Stephen Janis, who's a reporter and host of a podcast that I listened to called The Land of the Unsolved, who did a story on this. So

Stephen says, in the spring of 2006, the couple visited Los Angeles to plan their move back. But when they returned to Baltimore, Ray began behaving oddly. Allison recalls he was edgy and nervous, uncharacteristic behavior for her usually self-assured husband. It started then, Allison said. He started going everywhere with me. He wouldn't let me do anything alone. A week before he disappeared, Ray accompanied his wife to a running track. Whilst there, something spooky happened.

Allison recalled as she jogged and Ray sat in the bleachers reading a book, a man appeared. Her husband, she recalls freaked out even though the mysterious interloper left without incident allison says ray seemed unnerved it was not like him so that's just one example of kind of him being super paranoid um and as if as if that's not creepy enough a few days later the couple woke up like a few days after this mysterious guy appeared and ray freaked out um the couple woke up like a few days after this mysterious guy appeared and Ray freaked out. The couple woke up to the sound of their alarm system going off in the middle of the night. And Allison, I know it's just so much weirdness happening all at once.

Allison explained it was 1 a.m. Ray came flying out with this big bat and this fear in his eyes that scared me to death. Someone was trying to get in the house. I believe it was connected to his death. Creepy. Police determined it was a false alarm and that a squirrel had probably tripped it. That was their theory. Okay.

But the next night, the alarm went off again around the same time. And Ray acted just as terrified, if not more so. Allison went and checked herself and noticed that one of the downstairs windows looked as though it had been tampered with and like the screen had been removed. And it looked like the window was trying to be opened. I see. Okay. And the police just said they think it's a squirrel. So it's just a weird.

I don't think it's a squirrel two nights in a row at the same window. Right. But whatever. just a weird i don't i don't think it's a squirrel two nights in a row at the same window but whatever um and finally there's the freaking phone call that he got the day of his disappearance that like nobody knows what the hell was said that made him yell oh shit and run into the car right take off um so what they do what they did figure out is that the call was made from stansberry associates from the place where he worked and they were able to figure out that it came from the company's switchboard um but there is no way to figure out who at the

company made the call so that's just another weird uh weird mystery at that company and like be looking around wondering who was who did it right yeah well the company comes back too i'll tell you in a second but um so porter who was the friend who owned this company and had convinced him to move out to baltimore um he had initially like i said put up a thousand dollar reward and got the media involved but as soon as attention turned toward his business he completely zipped up he refused to cooperate he went as far as to put a gag order on all the company's employees, forbidding them from speaking to police or giving any interviews whatsoever. And Michael Bayer, a detective with the police department at the time, said Ray's best friend,

Porter Stansberry, would not even return our calls, would not talk to us, would not give us any answers. So to me, that's really suspicious. And it is strange because at the beginning, he was really worried and was getting the media involved. And it is strange because at the beginning, he was like really worried and, you know, it was like getting the media involved. And then all of a sudden, the second they bring his company in and said like, hey, this phone call came from your company. He completely shut down and like blocked all access to the company and refused to, you know, cooperate anymore.

Gotcha. So according to an entertainment site called cheat sheet.com besides the gag order the company was in trouble with the sec over financial advice dispensed to investors and ray had actually joined the firm about a year after this huge legal issue that had happened um some viewers of the unsolved episode think stansberry had something to do with rivera's death either directly or indirectly like maybe he knew something that he wasn't supposed to know and got into trouble for it or had to be killed for it. And some people think maybe he was killed at the office.

Like maybe he was called into the office and then killed there and then put in the hotel to make it look like a suicide. So those are kind of just the, uh, the theories, I guess. Um, another theory is that, uh,

people have considered the possibility that Rivera was killed by members of the Russian mob. So I know that sounds crazy, but apparently, uh, this company, Stansberry had a major connection to Russia. Um, and this also had to do with the

huge trouble they were in with the sec and like a lot of legal issues and they were associated with some shady characters out of russia um and so that just seemed like another weird angle that nobody had looked at yet um so but oh yeah so for like for example the sec complaint that had happened um mentioned false insider trading involving specifically a russian corporation so just a little bit of shadiness there um some people think i it feels very mobby and that like the one thing only but that like his chins were broken in a way that doesn't make sense with his with potential suicide so that's yeah you did say that in the beginning and i was like i don't know how to explain the mob yet without jumping really far ahead but yeah i mean that was a weird a weird

thing and the fact that his belongings were then found just like perfectly intact above we're gonna call it an accident yeah yeah um so this is strange but again like even that like 45 foot jump like again that would still have to have somebody throw him that far which sounds just right difficult if not more so um so it's it's just very confusing um so some people actually think porter the best friend is involved um and maybe he was even the target and uh kind of got out of the way and put uh ray in his place um so like for example they've noted how insistent porter was that ray come work for him over the years and like just insisting after this sec issue insisting that he come work for his company, but at the same time,

like they were best friends. So maybe they just wanted to work together, you know, just needed a job. So I don't think that's super fishy or anything. Obviously one of the main prevalent theories that we cannot ignore is that Ray's death was the result of an undiagnosed mental illness that was showing itself in the paranoia that he experienced in the note he had written. That was pretty nonsensical.

What is weird and kind of sad that one Reddit user pointed out is that if this was just paranoia that had to do with mental illness, the fact that his alarms were going off in the middle of the night and stuff is just would have been such a terrible coincidence like yeah triggering his paranoia even more if it really was a squirrel say like totally perpetuating that everything he's believing is true exactly so the timing of it is really weird so it's obviously possible that that's a coincidence but it just kind of doesn't add up completely um as for allison she still doesn't have the answers she's seeking, sadly, but she does hope somebody, especially now with the episode that's out, comes forward. She says, I kept saying there's something bigger.

There's something more going on. I think he turned over some rock and he shouldn't have turned it over, but I know he didn't kill himself. My hope is that there is somebody out there who knows the truth. So anybody who does have tips is asked to submit them at unsolved.com. But for now, this remains an unsolved mystery. The death of Ray Rivera. Wow.

The end. You did a good job on that. Oh, thank you. I feel like I was talking so fast. Sorry. No, I haven't watched Unsolved Mysteries yet. And I know a lot of people are going to scream at me about that. But no, I haven't watched it yet.

So now I'm excited to actually watch the show and be like, I know what's coming. And also, I can maybe look at that note and see what we're... I'm trying to think, like, I've made some weird fucking notes at two in the morning. Right. So, like, maybe there's someone out there who has some sort of understanding but if no one has by now i don't think i'm gonna be the one to crack it but it'll be fun to try i mean who knows we have we have some smart listeners so uh certainly we're not gonna figure it out but maybe one of you will um but yeah and the fact

that he hid it behind his computer is really like folded it up really small. It's not like it was just on his bedside. Like he had a weird dream or something. It was like, right, which is kind of weird. But you're right. There's a sneaky intention. Yeah, it wasn't meant to be found, which is also kind of weird. So anyway, that's my story. And thank you, everybody, for listening.

Well, I mean, yeah, thank you you uh very juicy and if you haven't watched unsolved mysteries yet i plan to so you know check it out check it out all right well uh thank you for listening we i mean check us out on and that's why we drink.com and submit your listener stories there if you'd like to um you can also uh find us on our social media at atwwd podcast our patreon at atwwd podcast our personals uh vm schultz and xing chiefer and that's it and that's why we drank Drink! Yay!