And That's Why We Drink - E190 An After-Life Reality Show and a Hypnosis Session Spec Script

Episode Date: September 27, 2020

We're not here to solve your migraines today, folks! We've got two wild rides to take you on in episode 190 (wow, we're getting close to 200)! First Em covers the supposed first documented ghost in America, the extremely dramatic Nelly Butler. Then Christine takes us back to California for the Keddie Cabin Murders and a sheriff's department that straight up forgets about one of the victims. Interested in family trees? We've got those this week too! And that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies who support us! See why Feetures has quickly become the #1 running sock in America.For listeners of And That’s Why We Drink, you can receive $10 Off Your First Pair of Feetures by going to feetures.com and using my code DRINK.Get Boy Brow by visiting glossier.com/podcast/DRINKAll new customers will get 10% off their first order on Glossier.com/podcast/DRINK (certain exclusions apply)Try Warby Parker’s free Home Try-On program: Order 5 pairs of glasses to try at home forfree for 5 days – there’s no obligation to buy! Ships free and includes a pre-paid return shipping label.Try 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com/drink.

Welcome to Smoky LA. Yeah. It's not looking hot out there. Oh, it's looking too hot out there. Too hot. A little too hot. I flew into Burbank and I got off the plane. First of all, they're really tired.

And then I got off the plane and it was like, they make us walk the tarmac because it's like such a small airport. And it was like, you just got hit. Everyone started coughing. Like the whole plane just filled with smoke. So anyway, I'm glad to be back. I'm glad since you've been back, the sky hasn't been as orange as it was. I just take the color out of everything. That's exactly it. You make everything a little more blue. It was a little blue yesterday. So anyway, hi. Welcome to our, this show featuring our hair accessories today. That's right.

I wanted to jump on the cool hair wagon. Yeah. I went to buy scrunchies and I came out with this cool headband and I walked in and Emma was- I've never seen that on, like that style. I've never worn a headband before. It's very 70s, I think. I don't know the

generation maybe I don't either it feels I'm not from this country or 60s yeah I uh I've never worn a headband before but it suits you I didn't wash my hair so I figured why not it suits you thank you also like weirdly pairs well with your eyeliner I don't know what I'm talking about but it all it all the puzzle oh that's so kind of you. Well, I think your hair looks voluminous as hell today. You know, here's the thing. I brought, well, I didn't actually mean to do this on camera. I brought a hat so I could, like, switch out. But I was like, I'm too lazy.

But it's too long. It's in my hair all the time, or in my eyes all the time now. So I needed something to give me a little lift. Now we can see your nice, beautiful face. You can see my my weird forehead um I hear you have things to catch me up well okay we have a couple things to talk about first of all we are finally this comes out we're recording this a little bit early but we are finally caught up on close friends on patreon and I wanted to say that because I know how bad we've been about keeping up but now em and I have

in our calendar a weekly like update our close friends list from patreon and so on instagram we're being much more intentional and avid about it beautiful people have also sent in some really nice suggestions of things we should do like for content building on there same i think i'm doing like what did you get any good ideas i got tiktok tuesday since i always talk about t talk about TikTok. So they want me to upload like my favorite TikToks on close friends. That's fun. Because I don't share my account. That's great because then you can share what you're watching.

Oh, that's fun. I'm going to watch that. What did you get? I have been doing it. Some people said like Wine Wednesdays or Geo updates, which is like so easy to do. You should do Wine Wednesdays for sure. I'm like home alone anyway with wine and geo. But another one was like house update or like house things.

And so I was like, oh, cool. So I got to show like my haunted staircase or like, you know, little things like that where I'm like, I don't think to post those things. But since we talk about them on the show now, you can see them on Instagram. Since your house is full of old estate sale haunted items. Dead people's objects. You can have that one. I don't want to.

I'm not going to copy you on that one. I'm just going to talk about the ghosts in my house. I'll have TikTok and you can follow Christine for all the weird haunted content. I can just follow actual demons through my home. Okay. Also, sorry. I have a couple things to mention here. All very important.

So close friends updated. Oh, we're going to release for Patreon. A, 85 gift videos because we finally did that. And B, we're going to release on Patreon the, whatchamacallit, Space Camp. That's the only update I have. Space Camp. Oh, is it? Okay.

I didn't know if we remembered. No. Who could forget when you shoved that piece of content on my throat yesterday. So, yeah, so we, just to backtrack real quick, so we have posted a lot more gift videos or gift opening videos just because we haven't been together long enough or things got in the way. We didn't, like, get the mail for a long time. We haven't been able to have all of the gifts since quarantine in one spot. It's like six months worth. We got them all yesterday.

Yeah. And it felt like we spent all day opening presents, which was like quite a Christmas experience. It was like our birthdays. One of them, by the way, my hands smell like maple syrup. And I think it's because one person gave us a homesick candle, but it was the Canada one. So whoever you are, thank you. But I found out that they use real ingredients that's right because I think on the way to the apartment for us to open

them it melted in the car a little bit and when we opened it up it was like this whole like the smell of maple syrup took over the entire room someone mailed you a flapjack and if you looked at it maple syrup was like running around it was like guys and like picked it, maple syrup was like running around. Eve was like, guys, and like picked it up. And there was like literal liquid maple syrup in the sides of the glass. So that's how prominent that was. Someone literally gave me a glass jar of maple syrup and wax. So I appreciate you. That person gave me a lemon mug and I used it this morning in the new apartment. It's our first mug in the apartment.

So it's very exciting. A lot of excitement. I arguably my favorite, which I know I probably shouldn't say, but it was hysterical and topical as we got our own corn husk dolls that's right from jen it was so perfect so thank you to those are great i think there's a photo of them online anyway go on patreon to watch the rest of that um and the other thing that you just mentioned is uh if you remember way back in march in march literally like the day when Seattle was canceled. Seattle was canceled and people started shutting down everything around the world because of COVID.

And we were like, it can't be that bad. We were celebrating Eva's birthday that day. So it was like the last real happiness we had before all of the doors shut down. And we threw Eva a space camp party. Right. And we filmed the whole thing. And this whole time, Christine has been editing a video

out of all of the footage we got that day because it was three people's phones for like 12 hours. It was chaos. You had like 36 hours of footage. Yeah, like dozens of hours of footage. And somehow got it down to 40 minutes.

Yeah, it's now like a feature film, but it is 40 minutes. And a feature film, it's like the most most insane it's like i took absinthe before i watched an already crazy movie and kept like glancing over with their hands over their mouth and was like you're psychotic she i know i think i said you're the most brilliant lunatic i've ever had in my life brilliant lunatic and i actually wear that badge proudly now. Thank you. It was the weirdest, but exactly what I expected product. There were like, I put like, I learned how to do like sports graphics just for this video. Apparently you bought like six different like Barcelona sports packages and editing.

And soccer and football and cricket. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing here. It's the wildest thing I've ever seen. And if you would also like to see our experience during space camp, you can also see on Patreon. And also you'll meet Xenon, who's our friend that we haven't been able to talk about. We've wanted to talk about Xenon for so long. That's with an X, by the way. And two I's with hearts.

And an umlaut over the L. Xenon is our friend. Please go. And she loves frappuccinos. You'll see. Just watch it. She wears falsies. She wears falsies. She wears falsies.

So sue her. Sue her. Yeah. You don't know what we're talking about, but if you would like to. We barely know what we're talking about. If you'd like to, please go to Patreon and watch Space Camp, fall in love with Xenon as we did. Yes.

And then you'll know what the hell we're talking about. Okay. I think that's the last thing. The only other thing I wanted to say is. Oh. You missed me. I missed you. Yep. Okay. That's it. No. Okay. Well, I missed you. I did miss you a lot, but I wanted to also mention that this is, I'm just very excited for one of my friends. His name's Alex and he is basically the only reason

I survived my job at Disney back in the day. Oh, hi Alex.. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hello. I don't think you haven't met him. It was sort of like pre-you. Got it. He was a filler before I got here. Yeah. He kind of, you kind of stepped in and pushed him off a cliff or something. I said, hi, Alex. Your time's up.

My turn. You're so psycho. You're a brilliant lunatic. Anyway, so Alex has a podcast and he's had it for a while and they're approaching their 100th episode and it's called Camp Strange and I'm like I'm finally getting back

and caught up on my podcast and I'd been listening to it a while ago but I'm listening again they did like a really good Ed Gein episode and like recently

and they're approaching their 100th episode it's called Camp Strange and it's very it's like the same stuff we talk about like ghosts and spooky

true crime stuff anyway he's a good friend of mine. And I feel like we recently reconnected a little bit. So I just wanted to give a shout out. Yeah. And congrats because I remember our 100th episode was chaotic. It sure was. Avoid confetti because that was a big problem. It was so chaotic that the people who live in your old house still have confetti stands on their floor. I'm for sure not getting my security deposit back. Anyway, so that's my little update for the day. I'm sure I'll have more in like two hours when we record the next episode. But excellent. For now, let's talk about our actual show.

Sure, let's talk about spooky things. Okay, so. Excuse me. I know. Cute. Look, I don't think it's cute. I have a dairy complex, I think. And my throat is closing. Cute. Look, I don't think it's cute. I have a dairy complex, I think. And my throat is closing.

Okay. So my first story, I had not heard of this. I'm very excited about it. Oh. And. Oh, God. Trey Songz? He follows you here?

Did you come to work with me? Bring your neighbor to work day. Okay. P.S. I slept in the apartment last night. I was telling Em for the first time by myself at like the and that's where i drink apartment and i uh we'd always slept in the living room even though there is like literally a bedroom but so two bedrooms yeah so i dragged the air mattress into the bedroom and like slept in there and i was

so freaked out because there were so many noises you know when you're in a new apartment and it's by the way empty basically it's just boxes so there's like so much clanging and like pipes and the people upstairs. And, um, I had to put like our, uh, armadillo doorstop that someone gave us in Texas, like against the bedroom door in case someone broke it. And like that would stop them, I guess. I don't know. And, um, anyway, so I feel like I woke up every hour from like a clanging. So my nerves are fried. My favorite part of this weekend with, uh, Christine is the fact that she stopped by my apartment and asked if she could borrow the company card because she needed snacks at the apartment. And so then like two hours later, I go to the apartment expecting like some snacks on

the counter. And instead I found a Keurig, a bed frame and a 40 inch TV. They were all business expenses. And then we're sitting there, and I, like, walked to the door, and I was like, what are you doing? And I was like, oh, nothing. And I opened it. And you're like, oh, I also got some Oreos.

And they were just, like, boxes from Amazon. And I was like, oh, I ordered a Keurig. You're like, what? Give me that fucking card back. Listen, if I'm going to be living in this place, I need coffee. Someone already mailed me a lemon mug. You're right. You're right.

And I've been sleeping on an air mattress, and I'm almost 30. I'm too old for this in this place. I need coffee. Someone already mailed me a lemon mug. You're right. You're right. And I've been sleeping on an air mattress and I'm almost 30. I'm too old for this. My back fucking hurts. I needed to order a mattress on Amazon. So, so sue me. I understand. It was very funny though, where I was like, didn't you want a snack? You literally walked in there like one box of goldfish and then like a television.

And I walked in, there was like a couch set up. There was a whole fucking television. Okay. Anyway, back to the story. Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, you're good. So this is, uh, this is apparently America's first documented ghost. What? I feel like I've covered a topic somewhat like this at some point. I, I must've covered like an America's first ghost, right? Maybe not. Maybe not. It seems like you would have. not this time not in this way okay so uh this is the story of Nellie Butler Nellie Butler I don't think I know that name I feel like the name Nellie should come back it's a cute name I have a cousin named Nellie that's fine step

cousin yeah and she's she's like very cute she like embodies that name Nellie I don't think I've ever met anyone named Nellie I have a cousin named Mellie, like Melanie. Huh. I mean, I'm maybe, I guarantee her friends don't call her Mellie, but growing up, that's what we called her. Yeah, I think Nellie, my step-cousin, that's like her full name, I think. Hmm. Anyway. I know an Ellie.

Okay, let's stop. We're just, we're coming up with rhymes now. I know a Billy. It's almost there. Okay, so this is the first ever documented ghost in america this was in franklin maine and nelly butler uh her parents were david and joanna hooper um and this was in the late 18th century okay so there were no ghosts before then apparently not i don't understand maybe so okay that's a fantastic point because like anyone lived in this country before you know

as someone who was an investigator in virginia i've spoken to a lot of ghosts from the 1600s so you're on this so you're about to do like an expose on this wait a minute bs calling you out nelly um so okay this is it says the first documented so maybe this is just the first one that was written up in papers we're the I mean, we're the first podcast, like, ever. So I guess I get her point. You know what? That was the most insane thing you've ever said. Thank you.

I'm a brilliant lunatic. So Nellie Butler's dad, David, he fought in the American Revolutionary War. And then afterwards he started a business with his wife. And they had nine children in nine years. Holy shit. Ouch. It's like competing with the Duggars. This is actually the first documented Duggar case.

I forgot to say. The first Duggar family. And in 1776, Nellie was born. She was the second oldest daughter, apparently. So in 1795, when Nellie was 19 she met george butler who was a sea captain um his father's name was moses and we're gonna get back to him in a little bit okay um also never met anyone named moses me neither um i just maybe haven't met a lot of people um we're pretty uh antisocial so that might be the problem so uh the butlers were one of the first english settlers

in the area um nelly and george ended up getting married and they lived in franklin um they got pregnant and nelly had a baby and unfortunately her and the baby both died during childbirth so she is buried uh in the same area in an unmarked grave. And in 1785, so this is a little backstory to someone else. So in 1795, Nellie was 19, married George, blah, blah, blah. Ten years before that, there was another girl named Lydia. Okay. Also a nice name. Also a nice name.

Lydia Chlamydia. That's right. I was like, why is that so familiar? You've met a Lydia. So Lydia was born. And this is where their stories merge. So when Lydia was 15, she had a disease that they did not actually outrightly name. So she was sick.

And she was dying. She was laying in bed. And she had her first encounter with nelly who had died two years before oh shit so like on her deathbed she yeah sees the ghost of nelly she's like hey me too hey girl hey what's up we're closer than ever in veil wise um so while in bed lydia was hearing knocking from the cellar she told her family about it but they couldn't hear anything. The family went to investigate, but they didn't see anything. And so eventually Lydia's dad, Abner, I'm going to say not a cute name. Abner. I just think of little Abner, like the from Hey Arnold's, the little pig. I was like, is that a pig? I was

going to say from a classic novel, but no, like literally from Hey Arnold's. Is it from Charlotte's Web? Is that the pig also? Maybe. Last time I charlotte's web i was a child um you don't read it every weekend like maybe abner's just the name of all pigs is that true could be could be um okay so she heard knocking her family didn't believe her the family didn't see anything in the basement so abner lydia's dad uh made the family pray to make sure that the sounds were not coming from hell. Oh, that's nice. Let's pray that they're from heaven or a prank. And basically a few days later, the whole family started hearing the knocking and they also started hearing the voice of a woman.

And apparently the first thing that they all heard together was, I'm the dead wife of Captain George Butler, born Nellie Hooper. So like very detailed. Very well spoken. I officially know everything I need. Also love that before the name we learned her standing as wife of blank. I also appreciate that if they were to use a Ouija board, those are like two of the first things I would have wanted to know. It would take forever, though.

Yeah. I am, like, it would take forever. We would be way too impatient. We'd get like four letters in and go, that means nothing. Maybe she sensed they'd be impatient and was like, I'm just going to tell you now. I'm just going to yell it from the cellar. So the family found nothing in the cellar again,

but they kept hearing the woman's voice throughout the month. And eventually they started seeing the figure of a woman wearing a white dress and she was always in the cellar and in the nearby field. So that was just where they always found the dead wife of captain George Butler. Great. Born Nellie Hooper. Right. Two months later,

she began to talk to them directly like would approach them herself from the cellar or the field and speak to them that way oh no um she said again she was nelly butler and she'd been dead for a few years great introduction um and she said that she was going to their house because remember these are it's like a totally random family. Like, why are they dealing with Nellie? Oh, so this wasn't even her house. No. Oh, I thought they would, like, moved into her old house or something. No, it was like Nellie and George got married and then Nellie died.

And then elsewhere, like in a couple towns over, Lydia's sick. She's like, I guess I like this field and this basement. It's a sharp field. Okay. But yeah, so I guess at some point they were like, why did you pick us to never leave? How nice of you. Nellie basically said, well, I know that Lydia and George have been dating. What a little.

Petty, petty, petty. She's really just calling them out. To be fair, that's what I do. If I died. I know it is. I know it precisely that it's what you do. If I died and I know it is. I know precisely that it's what you do. If I die and then Allison start dating someone, I'd definitely go knock on that guy's door and be like, um, what's up?

She's like. What are you doing? I know. It's like, oh, look, now I'm going to haunt you forever. You think I don't see you. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be like, I know too well what's happening.

I'm watching you from the cellar. I'm in your cellar permanently. So don't think you're going to get away with this. And I'm the wife of. Now it makes a lot of sense why she's like, by the way, I'm the you from the cellar. I'm in your cellar permanently. So don't think you're going to get away with this. And I'm the wife of. Now it makes a lot of sense why she's like, by the way, I'm the wife of blank. That makes so much sense. It's like, you'll know exactly who I am before I even say my name. Oh, my God.

So here's the creepy part. Lydia was 15. George was 29. Uh-oh. Even back then, apparently, that was odd. Even back then. You know how like the age gap didn't yeah like matter like it does today can you imagine if i was dating a fucking a sophomore

in high school that sounds like your sister hell yeah but that's like literally my sister's age yeah oh boy okay um so basically she said i found out that you're interested in each other or talking to each other or i think the early signs of courtship were there. Okay. Again, Duggars. Any way I can shove them in a conversation I will. Yeah, I know. Poor you. I do feel bad for you sometimes that you're friends. I also feel bad for myself. I don't feel bad enough to do anything about it. Sometimes I'm talking and I'm like, I feel bad for what's happening right now, but it's not going to stop. I mean, I show up with the literal televisions after I told you I'm going to buy Oreos. So I think like we're even. I'm going to call it even

from the time I literally showed up at your doorstep and said, I need $500 in cash. And you just gave it to me. I had friends over too. And I was like, you had a party I wasn't invited to. It wasn't a party. I had three Nickelodeon coworkers because we had homework to do. And so we were watching. It looked a lot like a party. We were watching Jaws. We were having too much fun with your homework. I was having so much fun that I walked outside and gave you $500.

That's how much fun my party was. Anyway, where did I get $500? Okay, that's besides the point. Anyway, let's go. You're my best friend. I better be at this point. There's nobody i'm trying really hard i hope you feel safe in our relationship that you're the only person i thought to go to you drove from like fucking pasadena and i was like okay i was like you want to watch jaws you were like no i don't i was like, okay. I was like, you want to watch Jaws? You were like, no, I don't. I was like, well, you gave me $500 so

I should stick around. I'm going to leave. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay, so yeah, they're dating and there's an age gap and Abner, Lydia's dad is not happy about it either. And basically Nellie lectured Lydia and the family

on quote the reality of the afterlife and then complained that when she revealed herself to the family originally, I guess Lydia has a brother. She revealed herself to Lydia's brother and he apparently was very rude by not speaking to her. What a little jerk. So she like held this grudge that she, a ghost, approached someone and then that guy was probably freaked out and didn't talk to her. And now she's upset. I'm'm just gonna close my eyes right which makes me think how many ghosts have i pissed off because i didn't interact probably a lot i was just scared they're like they talk to everybody else on this planet and they're not gonna talk to me that's why they launch your starbucks off the counter well so i guess for a while she didn't there was a gap

from when she was originally showing up and then she was gone for like a month and then she came back and started talking to people so like remember she was just doing the knocking right and then eventually she started talking that gap was because she was insulted that the brother didn't reach out a lot and then she came back swinging she started opening her mouth and chatting okay um so nelly said that she had greater plans that would require the belief of more people. So let's remember that. Okay. And Nellie spoke to Abner where even Abner said that her voice flitted around the cellar from corner to corner.

Nellie wanted to encourage George and Lydia's relationship. Like came back. It's the exact opposite of what I would do if Allison were dating someone. Yeah. Um, she wanted to encourage George and Lydia's relationship and ordered Abner, Lydia's dad, that it must happen. And it was their quote, divine mission. Whoa.

Um. Okay. This is becoming troubling very quickly. Then she said, quote, what God hath joined together let no man put asunder? Yeah, which is like what you say in a wedding. Asunder? Asunder, yeah. That word's going to be at my wedding?

No. No. Why would, no. You're not getting married in the Catholic church, are you? Maybe I want to spice things up. Okay, so now it's 1800, Maybe I want to spice things up. Okay, so now it's 1800, and Nellie is still in their cellar demanding that Lydia and George take their relationship more seriously.

What? That's so creepy. And she said that they need to visit George's father. This gets real Desperate Housewives-y real quick, because you have to remember a lot of people, and none of them are directly related to each other to each other so like she wants to go to her ex-father-in-law's got it house with her husband's new girlfriend and her father so like keep george himself out of the picture and everyone else is going to go to the show you as a ghost you're like okay let's see what i can conjure up here let's do a drama i can watch and create that's exactly it so uh she said uh because i guess abner because he was so hesitant about allowing lydia and george to continue talking to each other nelly was like well let's go to

george's dad and see what he has to say and you guys can like negotiate and so they go to george's father's house and then she says that the two need to get married and then said a verse from Mark 10. Okay. Which interestingly is the section titled Divorced. Oh. The section. The one section in Mark 10 is titled Divorce. And it's where Jesus says that the two people that marry, the two will become one flesh and all that.

Don't asunder it. Asunder, a word I just learned today. Therefore, what God joined together, let no one separate and anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. That was the quote. So it's like, okay, so in a way you're like, your husband is cheating on you because he's marrying another woman?

Because she died. Oh, right. If you're a widower, you have to remarry in the Bible, I'm pretty sure. If you are divorced or you can't get divorced is basically the idea. Don't do it because then you're a big cheating bastard. Fascinating. Isn't it wild? Yes.

I kind of just want to read the Bible and treat it like an action-packed. I mean, I feel like certain parts, yeah, but then it's real dry. No, no, also Revelations. Okay, excellent. Yeah. We'll do a little Bible study. I'm just jaw-dropped the whole time. We just read like eight pages.

So Abner and Lydia left to go deliver this message of this part from Mark 10. Um, they were there during a snowstorm and they'd like crossed a river that was frozen. It was a very dangerous travel. Um, and while they were getting to George's dad's house, Lydia began to think about marriage and realized that she wasn't like actually that interested in George and like didn't want to totally marry him. She's like, I thought it was fun when no one, when it was secret and no one wanted me to do it. When I wasn't peer pressured by his dead wife's ghost. And so apparently Nellie could sense her doubts and appeared to Lydia and then like apparently

made the travel a lot easier for them to get there. Like to be like, no, no, no. Like cleared the road. Yeah. Like tried to like help it be less taxing of a journey. Like, helped, like, push the cart and everything so it moved faster. This is a weird ghost. Nellie's very dead set on this.

Dead set. So Abner and Lydia eventually got to Moses, George's dad's house, who was also against the marriage. So Abner and Moses were like, no, neither of us want our children to get married. But Abner said that this was Nellie's like last request from beyond the grave. And even though Moses said like he wasn't interested, he did wonder like, why would this random couple, why would this like daughter that i haven't even met yet and her father show up in like the worst weather conditions and like require like make this like wild claim unless they were serious or i thought would have been like who yeah my thought would have been like they're wackadoos yeah wackadoo indeed um so that being said he like it kind of opened him up to

like okay maybe oh boy you should take this seriously easily convinced they also decide that to like kill two birds with one stone they're like while we're in this town let's also go to david hooper's nelly's dad oh and uh they're like let's just go to everyone's fucking dad and get a bunch of weird road trip. So they decided that they were going to invite George. They're like, look, we already talked to your dad. You're also welcome. Join us. Basically, they were like inviting everyone to come to their house and see Nellie for themselves.

And be like, if you come here, Nellie will definitely show up. She won't shut up in our house. She'll definitely be there if you want to go talk to her. So they invited George's dad, George. They also invited go talk to her so they invited george's dad george they also invited david hooper who was nelly's dad um so they invite everyone over and then david who's nelly's dad lydia who's nelly's ex's ex and abner who's nelly's ex's ex's dad they all get in the cellar together they start talking to nelly and uh basically nelly's dad was convinced immediately this was his daughter that he was talking oh really well um this is a quote

from nelly's dad by the request of the specter sent by two messengers i went to abner blidel's house and by converse and by conversing with he obtained such clear and irresistible tokens of her being the spirit of my own daughter as gave me no less satisfaction than admiration and delight. She gave a reason satisfactory to me why she put me to the trouble of coming here there instead of me coming to my own house. And then George showed up later that night and said, when I was called to talk to this voice, I asked, who are you? And it answered, I was once your wife. Oh, well. I like how it was so, like, if Allison were like, who are you? I'd be like, it's me.

What are you talking about? What kind of question is that? You better know. You're wasting my energy with that question? Yeah. I was once. Okay. That's not how that would go.

And then George keeps saying, the voice asked me, do you remember what I told you when I was alive? I answered, I do not really know what you mean. The voice said, do you remember I told you I did not think I should live long with you. I told you that if you were to leave me, I should never wish to change my condition. But if I was to leave you, I could not blame you if you did. What? First of all, what a... That's a lot of words.

That's a lot of words. And also it doesn't sound... I don't think I would have... If I understood what was going on, I don't think I'd like it. So is it bad news? Is that what we're hearing? It sounds like she just always knew she wasn't going to live long. Yeah.

She wasn't going to be with him for very long. George keeps saying, this passed between me and my first wife while she was alive and there was no living person within hearing and but she and myself and i'm sure that this it's very long basically he's saying that was a conversation so she would have only known that yes if she were actually they were the only two people in the room when they had that conversation when she was alive so for this voice to be saying it uh-huhhuh. So he's- I'm developing a theory here, but anyway. I'm thinking it's Jeff the Talking Mongoose

this whole goddamn time. And also I'm so primed- He would. He would show up and be like, I'm bored. What can I do? I'm so primed at this point that every time I read a ghost story, I'm like, when does Harry Price get here?

Yeah, yeah. I need him to like do some experiments. So George's friend also confirmed that uh george uh saw nelly's apparition and george's hand actually passed through her so that's a whole other random person believing okay nelly's dad went to george's dad oh my god this is so fucking confusing to confirm that nelly spoke to him and uh basically george's dad agreed like okay like i've seen her i'm convinced that like you really got this request from her i'm convinced that she sent you to us if she really means it and has this divine mission that i don't really understand but she brought you into my life then yes,

I think our children should get married. Yeah. So I think that this is my son and your daughter should get together. Um, so that being said, he gave his blessing Abner, Lydia's dad gave his blessing. And so even though neither of them were thrilled, they set a date and with the news of the marriage, plus the sightings of Abner and Lydia always hanging out with George's family and gossip about a ghost at their house. The tea was hot. Yeah. Sounds like as the folks would say. Yeah.

The youth. And so these are some of the theories going on. Or these are some of the questions that people in town were asking. They were asking, was this one big ruse by lydia just to get with george um but then again lydia was saying she wasn't really like okay but i think i have a theory about that what's your theory my theory is that lydia was doing pulling this off and then when it got too far she was like okay never mind i'm changing my mind or she's 15 and was like okay never mind i actually changed my mind she's like i'm 15 but then her parents were like oh no this is real and she's like shit i'm too far deep in this

okay or it was the guy the creepy third year old yeah who was like no my dead wife definitely my wife she it's her dying wish she never would have known that you know yeah it's i bet you it's one of these so okay so those two theories valid theories thanks um some people also thought maybe this was witchcraft from lydia they thought like maybe she had conjured the spirit like hexed it somehow yeah um and they but they said like well she was before nelly got here she was really sick and like miraculously was fine now so they thought maybe witchcraft was involved with that so many stories where teenage girls get bored and then start like throwing their voices and

right tricking their families but people could see lydia like they could see like a woman that looked exactly like her in a white dress that you could like put your hand through okay and later apparent i was gonna bring up later, but apparently many people confirmed that the way that they would see her is when you first walked into a room or walked into the cellar and she was there. Apparently she started out really tiny, like a borrower. Oh my God, what? And then as time went on, she grew to life size. Maybe it's like a projector thing. Maybe.

In 1800 though, were there projectors? I mean, probably not. I don't know. Maybe it was a mirror and the light. Or maybe she's just really small. Maybe she's a borrower. I get it. I don't know.

Maybe she's one of those sponges you put in the water and it grows to a hundred times. Um, but yeah, so that was also weird. I was like, that's a new one. I've never heard that before.

A little fishy to me, but so some people think it was one of your theories. Um, some people think it was one of your theories. Some people think it was witchcraft. Some people think Nellie's ghost is just Lydia's voice being thrown. Some people. Oh, and one of them was. So Nellie's sister, Sally, didn't like at first believe that this was true. Sure.

Like, oh, my sister is haunting that space specifically. And so she even kind of spread around the theory that maybe it was supernatural, but it was a demon posing. Yeah. Being like, I think this child should marry this grown adult. Right.

Well, a lot of people started saying like this, if it's real, it must be demonic. And so that's why apparently later on Nellie gets more and more religious whenever she talks and so people think that that was either the demon trying to prove to everyone like compensating bingo or that it was it was actually Nellie and she was like I'm not the work of a demon look I'll say a bunch of

bible shit like but either way it got weirdly more religious as time went on. Oh, my God. So Sally, Nellie's sister, went to go visit the house. It's interesting. It's almost like a sideshow. You have to go to their house. See, that's the other thing that's fishy to me. The dad was like, oh, she explained why she couldn't come to our house.

Yeah. Like, what? Why? If you wanted to talk to her, you had to go to their house. So Sally, Nellie's sister, went to their house to talk to her. And wait for her to grow from a little peanut. Wait for her little spongy sister to just grow on up. And Sally said she heard the sound of knocking and then, quote, Lydia spoke and a voice answered. The sound, which also sounds a little Harry Price-y of like you go into a seance room and like there's a routine here where someone knocks. I think he would have debunked

this. I really do. A voice answered and the sound of what brought fresh to my mind my sister's own voice in an instant appeared but I could not understand it at all. It was within the compass of my embrace and it had been a creature which breathed

but it would have breathed in my face. So she's hearing voices, and it's close enough to her that she should have felt breath on her. I see. But she's not feeling breath on her. I passed through the room, which led to the cellar into another room, and there I was much surprised when I plainly understood by the same kind of voice still speaking in the

cellar these words, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness. From this time, I cleared Lydia as the voice bible verse well she said from this time uh i cleared lydia as the voice and accused it was the devil because she was like lydia was with me i should have felt breath on me and i didn't i could still hear the voice in the cellar it was not lydia because lydia was with me and so she assumed it was the devil she's like there's only one answer it's the devil at that point i'd be's only one answer. It's the devil. At that point, I'd be like, thank God I'm not in the cellar with her.

It's not you, it's not Lydia, it's the devil. So her sister went on to say like, no, it was the devil and believed this until Sally herself died. She claimed that the voice sounded so much like Nellie that there's no way it could have been replicated by someone unless it was a demon trying to trick someone because you know how there's a lot of stories where like the demon will sound like someone you love

do you think demons can quote the bible i feel like they're like allergic to it that's a good question i would also maybe if you're like powerful enough and like doing it purely with the intent of manipulation oh you're like you know. You know? Yeah, I get it. Maybe. I don't know. I don't want to know. I'm happy not knowing. I want to know. Somebody tell demons, get at me.

So they basically, this poor family, if Nellie's real or the devil is real, the family kept living in this house with Nellie talking to them every fucking day. Apparently, she would wear a white dress, wearing a cap sometimes um and sometimes holding and cradling the body of her dead baby so it goes from cute to not cute real quick yeah um oh sorry when was it cute just wearing a little cap with a white dress and then she's

like holding a dead baby so yeah i i listen i wasn't really charmed by this creature so far but so nelly would usually appear in the form here it is no bigger than that of a toad and would over time grow to normal height um she was weird apparently for a spirit she was very polite and she only ever stayed in the cellar because she didn't want to interrupt their daily living upstairs bullshit bullshit she's like screaming from the cellar like I don't want to bother you but I'm gonna keep talking until someone pays attention to me then I'm gonna push your wagon down the street. It's like I'm not gonna go upstairs and bother you but I will bother you from down here until you come talk to me. Didn't she like come to the house with them like to and like push the wagon there? Apparently she can leave. She was

also in a field at one point so. Listen I don't believe this chick for one second. Sometimes Nellie would get bored and she was seen walking around town. Oh, let's see. But she wouldn't speak to anybody. People just saw her around town. And a woman named Mary Gordon once visited the house to encounter Nellie. And she said, at first the apparition was a mere mass of light and then grew into a personal form about as tall as myself.

We stood in two ranks about four or five feet apart, and between these ranks she slowly passed and repassed so that any of us could have handled her. When she passed by me, her nearness was that of, I can't understand old people talk. It's so beautiful, but I don't get it. I certainly should have felt her but I didn't.

The glow of the apparition had a constant tremulous motion. Like shaking. So they're seeing her. They should be able to feel her. They can't. I'm convinced now I have a new theory. I think this is like a distant cousin or someone who came to visit and they're trying.

The family is pulling this prank. Yeah. Or the mom is pulling it. Somebody who wants the kid to marry this weird dude. I guess so. I mean, there's no way of knowing if you're right or wrong. Maybe they had a light and they would shine it really strong and she would walk out of a curtain or some shit. Like, I don't know.

I'm like, this is this is a little too physical for my liking. I agree. All these people are seeing this apparition. I think it's phony. Well, so by, so anyway, it, I don't know what to tell you, man. I don't either. So Lydia was, uh, also routinely telling people if they got near her to fear not, which sounds like something a demon would say. If you're saying fear not, you probably are hoping people are afraid. I'm already afraid. Right. So by the time Lydia and George actually got married, because even though she didn't really want to do it, she like stuck it out because obviously Nellie was pressuring her.

That's so fucked up. So by the time of their wedding, news of Nellie had spread to other towns and people were coming to witness her. And so they would go to the Blydell's house and talk for hours. So it seems, again, like a paid attraction. Yeah. Meanwhile, Lydia wasn't looking forward to marrying George and she actually had plans to run away before the marriage.

This poor child. It's a literal child. And the family, I guess they had family in New York. So she was like, or not New York, maybe. No, New York. So she had family there. So she thought, okay, well, if I leave before the wedding, I can just go stay with them. And basically Nellie confronted Lydia and said that you have to do this or her afflictions would sail with her.

Oh, creepy. That's pretty nerve wracking. Yeah, that's not good. So Lydia stayed and married George. And the next day, Nellie visited both of them as like a congratulatory. This is so gross. And basically like not even a nice thing to say. Showed up and went, oh oh now that you're married i should

tell you lydia that you're gonna die very soon what apparently shut up lydia she like gave this prophecy of like just like me you're gonna carry a baby full term and both you and the baby will die what's the actual fuck and then she left she like never talked to anyone for like 63 days, like over two months. She ghosted her. Literally. She literally ghosted her. Oh my God. Em, this is so fucked up.

After those like 60 something days, Nellie came back and the townspeople still wanted to see Nellie. They were like, oh, well, now that she's back, we want like our turn at this basically attraction. Apparently over 100 people saw her at different times. And when they came to visit her, the dad, Abner, would take them to the cellar, blow out a candle, and Nellie would knock, and then all of a sudden,

it seems very routine. It seems very say-on-say. There's a panel in the wall. Walk through the panel. Once we've turned out the lights and like you do a signal like a signal right so uh apparently this is when she came back and she was super religious everything every response had something to do with god um she would say that she loved christ she would sing hymns um she said i am from above and come on God's message. Um, she apparently was, uh, she started also doing more prophecies and telling like Abner, Lydia's dad went to him and said, I'm really sorry to tell you this, but your dad is in

heaven. And Abner was like, no, he's not. And then found out a week ago he had died. Oh no. So she was like correctly prophesying things. And Abner, so that freaked Abner out. Apparently on August 13th alone, Nellie got like almost 50 people to gather because there was this guy in town named James who didn't believe that Nellie was real. And so she like assembled like a 50 person squad to go knock on his door and like,

she like prove that she was real. Um, so, wow. Yeah. That's a lot of drama in this town. She like, she's got a lot,

she's building up her own pettiness. Yes. Like she didn't even have that many things to worry about when she was alive. I know she's like create, you're right. She's creating like a afterlife reality show for herself uh so basically uh once she appeared at the house nelly kept like from this james guy she got to his house with the group of 50 people and commanded them to march back to the farmhouse they were just doing a protest essentially walking

to james's house and coming back to her house. So, again, like a hundred people marched with her from four different towns to prove that she existed. Throughout all of this strangeness, Lydia and George did get pregnant.

Yeah, well. And childbirth was very difficult and Lydia nor the baby survived. Just like Nellie said what happened just like I'm honestly so just the most disturbing part is that there's this child who's like I don't want to marry this grown man and then she's pregnant like she's forced to marry this man now she's pregnant and then died and then her and her baby were buried next to Nellie I mean what is going on maybe it's this husband guy I don't know I don't trust him for a goddamn second. So also if he's innocent, if, I do feel bad.

He has two wives and two babies all buried next to each other. Maybe he's murdering them. I mean, what? I'm just trying to figure out here. There's no right or wrong answer at this point. I think they're all wrong answers because I don't like any of it. So George Butler went on to remarry a third time. Oh, God.

To a woman named Mary, and she had four children. And Nellie apparently only appeared one more time to a guy named Abraham Cummings. Okay. But Abraham apparently said he was unimpressed with his experience with her. Oh, no. Honest Abe. The reboot just wasn't as good. So when he returned later, Abe, he was very intrigued

and had collected all of these testimonies, and then he published them in a collection of letters. So he was like, I wasn't impressed, but here's everyone who was impressed. And in 1806, he was alerted by two men that Nellie had been seen outside of his house. Uh-oh. So she was like keeping tabs on him, apparently. But this is what he wrote about the experience. Looking out towards the distance from the house, I saw there, as I accidentally looked in the same,

or I saw there one I accidentally looked in the same, or I saw there, um, one of the white rocks. This confirmed my opinion of the specter. I paid no more attention to it. Three months after I accidentally looked in the same direction and the rock was gone. So like,

whatever, that doesn't, that does not convince me of anything. Um, and then apparently he also did see uh a woman in a dress at one point appear in front of him um he said that he'd heard her voice before um she he said that he'd gone out to see her one of the times when he caught her but then she vanished before him still unimpressed apparently um but he published all this in the 1826 pamphlet called

Immortality Proved by Testimony of Sense. Sure, yeah. In case you wanted to go read that classic. And that was really it. So people don't know if she was genuinely trying to give George happiness. No. If she was real. She showed up and said, by the way, you're going to die.

Oops. Or if she was a total ruse made up by someone. I think that one. Or a demon. Or a demon. But the last time we heard of her at all was when Abraham Cummings wrote this pamphlet of letters. And he was like, I saw her a couple times, but she vanished. And it wasn't really that special.

But we never got answers. So fishy. Maybe if it was a ruse done by Lydia and then she died. True. But also how would she have predicted for herself that she and her baby were going to die before she was even pregnant? Hmm. Hmm. I don't know.

Or maybe she said. Wait. No. Maybe it was easy to assume you'd become pregnant if you were going to marry someone. Well, I mean, yeah. And there was no birth control and you're 15. You no say in the matter i'm sure right i guess she just assumed like i'll probably be pregnant soon and maybe people twisted it like no she totally said predicted it it's one of those like quote unsolved mysteries because like i have no fucking clue what

happened to her like who somebody's something's off I can't tell who's lying. Also, there's never been any other ghost like Nellie where like anyone could just go see Nellie at any time, talk to her face to face for hours about anything. Yeah, that hasn't been debunked or that hasn't been like part of some spiritualist baloney. It sounded like parlor tricks where you're like, you have to blow out the candle and then you wait for everyone to be quiet and then you knock on the door and then she talks to you and then weirdly one of the people in the room happens to be gone for some reason and then comes back with a wig on yeah and then harry price is there and then harry price he should have been there i'm mad he wasn't i'm mad he wasn't too because he would have fixed that really he flies to the mongoose but he doesn't fly to the lady in the dress in the field this one at least had some like quote evidence to it. She's pushing wagons around. So anyway,

I think since people saw her in town and stuff that it was like somebody from out of town that had a very distinct look or saying, and people were like, no, that's, I don't know. I don't know, but I'm sorry that was so long,

but that's the story. The unfinished story of Nellie Butler. Wow. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm just going to jump right into mine because mine is also long. And it's, it's a lot. It's kind of like-

Hopefully it's not as dramatic. I feel bad that half my story was me trying to continually remind people how everyone was related to each other. No, that's literally what my story is. Oh, great. Two family trees you get to learn today. My fear was that this would be too convoluted. Oh, great. Well, I've clearly given you something to compete with. The second you said that the first time I went, well thank god it's not just me. I hope no one

started today with a headache and thought, wow the new episode of And That's Why We Drink is really going to solve all my problems. If you thought that we would get rid of your headache, you have another thing. You clearly don't understand this show. Okay, so this is the story of the Keddie Cabin murders. Great.

Keddie Cabin? Yeah. Sounds precious. Anybody? No, not me. Okay, so this takes place in Keddie, California, which is in Northern California. So in 1980, Sue Sharp, who's a 36-year-old, so remember these names

because there's just a lot of people. Look, we just had to go through like a round of Degrassi with my story. This is like Degrassi plus all their extended family. Let me get my shoes off. Let me get a little comfy. Oh, boy. Okay.

Okay. No fish flops today, huh? No fish flops. No, no, no. This was a serious day. Thank God. Okay. So Sue Sharp, she's a 36-year-old mother of five living in Connecticut.

And she is stuck in an abusive marriage. She has five kids with her husband. The kids are Johnny, Sheila. Okay, sorry. Johnny's 15. Sheila's 14. Tina, who's 12. Rick is 10, and Greg is 5.

Okay. So basically she has two daughters and three sons, five kids. All 10 years apart. All total within 10 years. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All 10 years apart. All 10 years apart. She's had one every decade. Um, so she's in this marriage. It's unhealthy,

unhappy. Um, so in 1980, she, uh, takes her five kids and leaves her husband. She's in Connecticut. She travels all the way to Keddie, California, which is, uh, her brother lives in nearby Quincy which is um in northern California it's a so Keddie is a small town um it has a population of less than a hundred people it's yeah very small quaint cabin listen under other circumstances this would be my new favorite town extremely other circumstances I love I love a quaint nature cozy town have you not heard of this story no none of those hundred people have talked to me before. No, really?

Okay. So anyway, so she picks Caddy, California because her brother lives nearby in Quincy. And it's a very small town, sense of community, less than 100 people, yada, yada. She wants to start fresh. So she moves her five kids. They move in and basically they immediately fit in. Like they're making friends. The kids have friends. They play in all basically they immediately fit in. Like they're making friends. The kids have friends. They play in all the different cabins. It's working out well. It's

working out well. And they live in cabin 28. Ooh. Cabin 28. So, uh, this is in Plumas County, California. If anyone has any grasp on where that is, uh, me neither. So at the center of Keddie was Keddie resort and it's these 33 rustic cabins that could be rented out long-term. So like long-term rentals. Um, and it was about $170 a month. So she and the five kids rented cabin 28. So they tended to keep to themselves. Um, but the kids went to local school and had friends in the, basically in the forest, like it's in the woods and there's all these cabins. So they would run to each other's houses and play. Um, so here we go around 7am on the morning of Sunday, April 12th, 1981, 14 year old Sheila Sharp. So she's the

oldest daughter was at a sleepover at her friend's cabin across the road, the Seabolt family. Okay. Meanwhile, 15 year old John, and he has a friend named Dana, who's another boy. He's 17 years old. And the two of them hitchhike to Quincy for a party and return that night. So Sheila, the oldest daughter, is at her friend's house. And Johnny's gone. Johnny and Dana are at a party and then they hitchhike to the party and then home that night. Gotcha.

So Sheila, the next morning, finishes her sleepover, walks home, opens the door, and is met with a horrific sight. The cabin is full of bodies tied together, covered in blood. She sees a hammer and a bent knife. And she just fucking runs. Good. Good girl. She's like, I don't know if anyone's there.

I don't want to know. She said she didn't even know, like, register who was there. Yeah. How could you? She just fucking bolted. So she runs back to her friend, the Seabolt's house, her friend's house. She says, I remember dropping my stuff, running back next door, screaming. So the Seabolts call the police and send their older son jamie to the cabin to take a look

they're like not even sure if this killer even the parents themselves are like our oldest can go check it out yeah and like we're busy calling the sheriff you go check yeah like they don't even know if there's a murderer in in the house yeah like yeah so they send the oldest um to check it out and he goes over there jamie. And he kind of creeps around quietly to get a look at what's going on. And he sees a back window and he glances in the back window and he notices that the younger boys are in their bedroom. They're in their beds, fast asleep and they're alive. Oh, shit. Yeah. OK, well, that's kind of good. Yeah. So 10 year old Rick and five year old Greg. And then they had a friend over named Justin who's 12.

They were all still alive and they were sleeping. Can you imagine if you were Justin's parents? You're like, you're never going to sleep over again. Well, Justin's parents come into this whole story. Oh, no. But yes. Okay. Okay.

Because you're like, yeah, go to your friend's house for the night. And then it's like, well, this is what happened. That terrifies me about my own kids going to sleepovers. Seriously. I'm like, oh, my gosh, please, please don't let there be a mass murder happen. Yeah. I'm going to be that parent who's like, I'm going to do a quick background check real quick. Oh, my gosh.

On everybody. Okay. So the kids are alive. So Jamie and Sheila, Sheila's the sister, open the window and help out the kids so they don't have to see what happened in the front of the house. They help kind of pull them out of the window. Sure. Pretty soon the sheriff arrives and Sue Sharpe's brother, Don. So Sue's the mom. So her brother, Don, who lives in Quincy, comes as well. So the sheriff and Don arrive and Don has to identify the bodies. Yikes. So

according to Sheila, it took her uncle Don a couple of times to determine that it was definitely the bodies of 15 yearyear-old Johnny, his friend Dana, who had been together at that party, who's age 17, and his sister, the kid's mother Sue, who had been murdered. So the three of them are the victims. Sue was found nude from the waist

down, but showed no signs of sexual assault. Sheila's brother and his friend Dana were found bound with electrical cord and wire, gagged, and had been brutally tortured for a long period of time. Oh, fuck. So in the room, so in the room, it's covered in blood, literally floor walls and ceiling covered in blood. The investigation team finds a bent stake knife, a bloody butcher knife, and a claw hammer. And because of the marks of the blood,

police believed the victims had been moved and rearranged after they were murdered. So they had been like pulled together and tied up. They noted the room hadn't been ransacked. Nothing had been stolen. So it seemed like a personal crime. It was just an attack. Right.

Rather than a burglary. So again, this is like a tiny ass town. There are fewer than a hundred people in this town. And like this lady and her five kids show up and within a year, there's just like a brutal, multiple murder in one of the cabins of like kids too. So it's just like, obviously rocks this town. After a few hours to kind of allow the survivors to like readjust, Justin, who's the friend that came for the sleepover. So Justin, his name is Justin smart and not to be confused with sharp,

which is the family. So that's like, it's a little confusing adjectives. Yeah. Um, yes. Two good adjectives. Yeah. Yeah. So Justin is taken for an interview by sheriff Thomas, um, inside his patrol car. In the interview, Justin remembers continuously saying to Sheriff Thomas, where's Tina? Tina's missing. Oh, no. I totally forgot for the other kids. So did everybody else. Okay. So apparently the sheriff did not acknowledge him on this statement. Great. Tina Sharp was Sue's 12-year-old daughter, and she had been at the Seabolts watching movies with Sheila the night before

and wanted to stay over, but Sheila and her friend told her, it's just going to be a sleepover for the older girls, so you have to leave and go home. So you know how kids are. Like, no, you can't hang out with us, like the younger sibling. So Tina wanted to hang out with her older sister,

and her older sister made her go home. And then her older sister walked home, saw this, and now her sister is missing. Right. So she had headed back to the cabin around 9.30 p.m. because her older sister was like, you can't play with us. Right. So it took Justin's mom, Marilynilyn smart to interrupt sheriff thomas to

say will you be quiet for a moment and listen to what this boy is telling you he's telling you that tina is missing for them to finally be like wake up oh shit so basically so far there are three murders sue sharp the mother john sharp the son and dana wingate who's the friend of the son right then there's one child missing, the daughter, Tina Sharp. And the three boys who survived are Rick and Greg, the sons, and Justin. Right. Their friend and neighbor. And so now with the knowledge that Tina is missing also, the FBI are called to the scene.

But now it's been several hours. They've lost like hours of time because nobody jumped on this fact that Tina was missing. So the police collected evidence throughout the house, anything that might have a connection to the homicides, including the hammer, knife, the steak knife, the hammer. I said that. The hammer, the knife, and the bent steak knife, which they deduced had been bent in the torture.

Yeah, that was assumed in my mind. Really, really, really doesn't feel good. And they noted that the only thing missing from the house was a shoebox that Tina had been using for a school project. Okay. Strange. So according to one of my fave websites, all that's interesting, the cabin's telephone had been left off the hook and all of the lights had been shut off and the drapes had

all been closed. The home didn't show any signs of forced entry, but detectives did recover an unidentified fingerprint from a handrail on the back stairs. But this was pre-DNA testing. So even though they could check fingerprints, they couldn't check DNA in the blood. There were panels taken off the walls because they had blood on them. And then a former FBI agent named Larry Ott recalled that quote, the most strange thing for him was that the walls had knife marks in them. Like someone had been throwing a knife, trying to stick it in the wall.

It's all very gruesome, just horrible. So they went through all of Sue's exes because, you know, they look into the husband first. So Jim was the guy she had just left in Connecticut who had apparently also allegedly sexually abused Sheila and Tina, his daughters. Oh, fuck.

So but he was on the other side of the country, still in Connecticut. Like there was no way he could have been involved. So they had him off the hook for now. And they're focusing on Tina because they're like, well, most importantly,

we need to get her back. So they narrowed in on one of her teachers, a guy named Joel Lipsy, who apparently had a fixation on her. Yeah. He had a picture of her on his desk and at his house that he just kept.

And like nobody fucking did anything. They were like, oh, he's just kind of creepy. It's like, this is how these things happen. Okay. So people around town said he was obsessed with her, but he had an alibi. But fun fact, he quickly left town and was later arrested in his new town for molesting a young girl. So, wow, shocker. Okay.

So now they're thinking maybe Tina wasn't the target, even though she's missing. Sheila herself even said she thinks her mom was the intended target. And maybe the kids were just in the way and had witnessed something. And so they were murdered. Right. So a neighborhood reported they had heard a muffled scream around 1.30 a.m. but went back to sleep because they weren't sure where it was coming from. And then, like, one thing you wonder is if the neighbor heard the scream,

why are the three boys asleep and didn't hear anything? And not one of them woke up. So it's just a little strange to me huh you know what i mean i hadn't even that i hadn't even processed you know there was screaming yeah that's awful but yeah and like they were being dragged the knives were being thrown into the wall bodies are being dragged around like you'd think one of the three would have heard something so then my theory did the kids leave at? The kids were definitely there the whole time? They got home that night and nothing was amiss

when they got home. So it happened after they got home. And they weren't drugged to fall asleep or anything. Oh, and the two kids were five and ten. So they were like home the whole... Oh, sorry. No. The ones who had been gone came home and were then

murdered. Right. The youngest ones, five, ten, the ones who had been gone came home and were then murdered. Right. The youngest ones, 5, 10, and 12, were all asleep the whole time. Yeah, that's weird. Right? I thought so. So now they're focusing on the kids who are alive. So Justin, Smart, the friend. Yes.

Maybe the killer, like, gagged them first or, like, threatened them and said, like, you don't want to wake up your kids because then I'll do something to them. Good point. So like to save them. They're like, we know there's kids in the other room. To save them, made them stay quiet while they were getting tortured. Which I find impossible. Yeah, that's a very good point. I don't know.

I mean, I'm trying to think like a killer. It's true. My only thought then would be like, what about like the bent knives like being thrown in the wall? I feel like if you're torturing people to a point where the knives are bent, like there's no keeping quiet even if you want to. Yeah. You'd think. I don't know. Anyway, but yeah, that's a good point.

Like maybe they threaten them into silence. That's true. So now they're talking to the kids and Justin, the friend who stayed over, says he has something he thinks could help. Let's hear it, Justin. Justin says he keeps having dreams that mirror the attack okay so now the sheriff's department decides they're gonna learn how to do hypnosis fuck off so they go to two different training sessions to learn how to do hypnosis couldn't they just bring in a hypnosis nope uh nope i guess not hypnotist wow i'm so stupid okay well yeah but so maybe you need a course maybe and how to say the word

um okay so they do hip hypnosis with justin and this is a month after the murder which by the way like they should have fucking really interviewed him whatever it doesn't matter earlier but yeah according to sheriff thomas quote under hypnosis he didn't actually say that he had saw anything but described watching the love boat and then in detail talked about a fight and talked about sue and at the end sue was thrown overboard so this makes me wonder if he's like projecting if he had seen something or heard something and he's, this memory is playing out as like projected onto like a TV show that he loves. Like framing it in a way that his own brain can process.

As like a child. Right. That's what I was thinking, especially when he says he keeps having dreams and needs to tell somebody about it. Yeah. Also, Justin was able to indicate body placements, which were very close to being correct, if not fully correct. And descriptions of the attacks, including a yellow blanket that was covering Sue's chest. And remember, he had been pulled out of the window, so he didn't like

see presumably hadn't seen anything. So he unless maybe he like saw it and then it was so traumatic. He was like, I, I need to go to sleep. Right sleep right like i'm just gonna this is not real yeah yeah so uh basically he knew about this yellow blanket which just like how would you know that and how would you know where the bodies were placed this is sometimes how nosy neighbors are important yes true maybe we should send our kids to sleepovers in case they need to be witnessed to a murder you know you never know um so according to crime and investigation quote under hypnosis justin recalled his dream he described two men in the home one had a mustache Maybe. Sue a murder, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You never know. So according to Crime and Investigation, quote, under hypnosis, Justin recalled his dream.

He described two men in the home. One had a mustache and long hair, while the other had shorter hair and was clean shaven. Justin recalled that one of the men had a pocket knife in his right hand, which he used to cut Sue in the chest. In his dream, the same man had a hammer in the other hand. In another hypnosis session,in described tina waking up and walking into the living room to see what was going on oh no according to justin a man then snatched tina up in his arms and carried her through the kitchen and out to the back steps

moments later the man then returned on his own so now either the thoughts are he did observe this and had as a defense mechanism his brain had like repressed the memory or shut it out completely. Or told him like you're dreaming, go back to sleep. Yes, exactly. And like turned it into like not reality. Or was he just hearing what everyone was saying about the case and had created kind of like a narrative. Right. Because he knew Tino was missing.

He knew that this was probably two men or multiple people. I'm going to go with the first one the first the repressed memory yeah i mean it makes sense with the blanket and everything and again but it was also a month later so it's like i'm sure he's heard a lot of rumors i'm sure he has had to be grappling with this the whole time so who knows how much of it is like real or how much of it is in his head um So in any case, under hypnosis, he had described the men he had seen as wearing jeans and denim jackets and gold framed sunglasses.

So then they created these sketches that police released for identification. I'm going to show you the sketches actually. Here you go. I have them here. I mean, it's like old timey from the 80s. Oh, okay. So if this wasn's like old timey from the 80s. Oh, okay. So if this wasn't like a really serious crime report, they look like cartoons. They do look like cartoons.

They look like outlines of The Simpsons. Yes, they do. They look like cartoon characters. So interestingly, Justin's mother saw these and goes, I know who those people are. Oh, fuck off. It's The Simpsons character. No, I'm just kidding. Oh.

I'm just kidding. It's Ned Flanders. It's the Simpsons character. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, it's Ned Flanders. It's Love Boat characters. He's really there. No, she said she knows who it is. It's her husband, Martin Smart, who's a Vietnam vet and Justin's stepfather. And the other guy is John Boe Boubade. So his name is Boe. So Martin and Boe.

And Boe is a family friend who was living with them at the time and they had met at the va hospital in reno also shout out to her for like like ratting out her husband being like hey i know these people they're in my living room right now right so but then part of the question then becomes well wouldn't justin have been like it was my dad and maybe it was too hard for him to process yeah that's the other thing too we've heard i feel like that's happened with kids where they're like no it wasn't like you know your brain is very powerful again if he's explaining it away as a dream in my head i would

be like oh and i know it was a dream because like i watched my own dad do it and like i know that's not true yeah true you know you'd think that would play a part. Like if you saw your stepdad, maybe also maybe he didn't pay attention to who the people actually were because he was paying attention to the bloody tortured people. And if you write, you're not like assuming your dad would be in the liver. Your stepdad is your brain probably wouldn't even go there. You'd be like, there were these two men. Yeah. Your brain wouldn't be like, I wonder if I know them.

Like, yeah, I don't know. And wonder if i know them like yeah i don't know and also we're wearing sunglasses at night and like disguises oh right yeah they could have done like the the the stockings on the face thing or something well he said he because he drew their faces yeah huh it's kind of weird also i wonder like so does that mean maybe he didn't get a good look of at them because if he had then when his own stepfather if it were him go to him later and be like you can't tell anyone what you saw like maybe they didn't see each other well okay you'll see you'll see more sorry no no that's like remember that okay so uh martin and beau had met while they were in the psych unit at the VA hospital in Reno.

So Marilyn, Justin's mom, is like, that's my husband and his friend. Other locals also saw the sketches and went, that looks a lot like Martin and Bo. And apparently if you put the top half of one face with the bottom half of the other face they were like really spot on really so part of me thinks maybe he just kind of disassociated with what he had seen and like didn't his brain didn't want to connect it right but here's a picture i'm pretty sure of a picture here um so this is when the faces are like combined and then here's a picture of martin which again like it's hard see, but he does kind of have that skinny face. Also, yeah, in a town of literally less than 100 people, like you better expect everyone knows who everyone is.

Wow. So anyway, so a lot of people are like, yeah, that looks exactly like them. As mentioned earlier, Martin and the Smart family lived nearby. They were the neighbors of Kevin 28. And on the night of the homicides, Marilyn, the wife, who was like, that's my husband, recalled Martin and Bo had gone to a hotel bar wearing, according to the Plumas News, three-piece suits and sunglasses. wearing, according to the Plumas News, three-piece suits and sunglasses.

Now, the description that Justin gave was that they were in jeans and T-shirts, but again, they could have changed, but they were wearing sunglasses in his description at night. So that's still weird. They were wearing sunglasses. And then you wonder why on earth are they wearing a three-piece suit to the local bar? And people have theorized maybe. Like it was an alibi?

Like, oh, we wouldn't wear jeans. Theyibi like oh we wouldn't they wanted to be seen or that they wanted to be remembered that people like yeah we saw them they were being real weird in their suits or like we we remember them not wearing or yeah we remember them wearing something so different from denim that like you would never believe it yeah that's a good point it also would make sense if like that's why maybe there wasn't like a I forget what the phrase is. But like there wasn't like a broken entry or anything in the house. Oh, right. If you just like, oh, my next door neighbor.

He knows them. The guy who has. Whose kid is here. Whose kid I'm watching. Totally. Maybe he wants to come in and talk to his kid. Totally. It's like that would make sense why there wasn't.

Yes. Why they didn't have to break in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's a good point. yes why they didn't have to break in yeah yeah exactly that's a good point um so before going out apparently martin wanted his wife marilyn to go to cabin 28 to see if sue would go to the bar with them because martin's friend beau kind of had a crush on her and was like i want her to join us ah marilyn was like sue's not gonna come she doesn't drink she's not gonna want to go but her husband martin

insisted that beau wants her to go so marilyn went down to ask sue and apparently sue refused and apparently martin and especially beau got very upset by this rejection and um apparently uh she had there was allegedly she had said also also that she was not interested in him. She was kind of grossed out or like, no. Wasn't the vibe. Wasn't it. Wasn't happening for her. They weren't vibing. They weren't vibing, according to her. So apparently this

pissed Bo off and Martin and said they went to drink. So apparently the co-owner of the bar said they left after a few hours when the music changed from country to rock and they were very disappointed. So that's what people remember from that night. Allegedly that night, Marilyn went to bed early while Bo and Martin were still at the bar. She does remember waking up around 2 a.m. after hearing noises from another room in the house and saw a glimpse of them burning something in the stove.

Although Martin told her it was just a log. Okay. The day after the homicide, Martin spontaneously drove to Reno, um, around five or 6 PM, allegedly quote high on something, according to his friend,

Glenna Meeks. And he kept saying, I got to go to Keddie. I got to go to Keddie. To which Glenna responded, Marty, you don't need to go to Keddie. I gotta go to Keddie. To which Glenna responded, Marty, you don't need to go to Keddie. Someone is out there killing people.

By this point, Martin was walking up and down the room saying, but I need to go. There's something I started that has to be finished. So at around 9pm, Glenna finally persuaded him, like, you're not driving back there. Sleep here. And he stayed there until 4am and went

back home. So he basically left town, had like a meltdown, and then drove back the next morning. Strange. So the police conducted a thorough search of the Smart residence. They found plenty of knives, but Marty was a chef, so it wasn't like weird that he would own a steak knife. Right. Apparently one of the knives was missing.

But again, that doesn't prove anything, but it's still a sign. They also found duct tape, a hangman's noose and hustler magazines, which again, doesn't really prove anything, but interesting. They then searched a shack nearby where the kids sometimes played like an abandoned shack. Okay. Fun. Marilyn joined the search and noticed some floorboards had been torn up that weren't torn up before. And she asked the kids if they had done it and they said they didn't do it.

So somebody had torn up these floorboards and it wasn't the kids. The police then interviewed both Marty and Bo in great detail, the sheriff claims. But he interviewed them at the same time. Okay. You don't do that them at the same time. Okay. You don't do that because. You keep everyone separate. Yes, because then they can fucking like play off each other. And create their own story.

You need to separate people who are suspects. Right, right. To make sure they, you know. Okay. So anyway, the sheriff is like, oh no, we interviewed them in great detail. He was convinced they weren't involved. Sure. Is what the sheriff says. Uh-huh. The guy who they weren't involved. Sure. Is what the sheriff says.

Uh-huh. The guy who also wasn't listening to the child saying there's a missing kid. Thank you. Yes. And who interviewed him in his patrol car.

The guy who also tried to become a hypnotist. Yeah. Not tried to become. He did become. He did. You know what? I'll give him that.

He got a new script out of that. He got a Love Boat screenplay out of that. He got a spec real good. A spec script out of that hypnosis session. So around two days after the homicides, Justin, the friend and his brother were playing on the floor and Marilyn overheard Justin saying, no Casey, you have to do it this

way. She glanced in and saw that Justin was instructing Casey on how to fake stab him with Justin, then defending himself from the stabbing action. Justin went on to say, I have to protect Sue. I have to protect Sue. Oh, no. Yeah. And he's 12.

And so at this point, Martin, his stepdad, saw what was going on, grabbed Justin, and yelled, you will never talk about this again ever. Aha. Okay, so guilty. So back to the stepdad. Guilty. Knowing that the kid knows something.

Yeah. And interesting that the kid wasn't touched. Uh-huh. Do you know what I mean? Like. Yeah. There's a reason they left the kid's bee in the other room. Right.

So Martin then took Justin outside. Marilyn doesn't know what he said or what was done. But before this incident Justin was able to describe the crime scene so clearly as if he had walked in there after the fact or as if quote he could have been standing in the hall next to the doorway and seen it all so there was a spot too where he could have been standing and like they wouldn't have necessarily noticed he was there um so after Martin had threatened Justin he seemed to have forgotten everything never brought it up again.

So this is just bad news bears. And this is despite the fact that the police had taken Justin's tennis shoes and reported there was evidence that he had walked through the crime scene in those shoes. Really? Yeah. And he just was like suddenly forgot everything. Weird. Yeah. forgot everything weird yeah um police nowadays say they have no clue what happened to those tennis shoes and sheriff thomas quote did not recall anything about justin's shoes so this

guy's also getting paid off right something's up with this guy like he's sketch he apparently retired shortly after the murders oh did he oh did he i bet that was a fun retirement party. Hellsaprees. Hellsaprees. So no shock here. The case went unsolved. So the Plumas County Sheriff's Office did not investigate the full potential, obviously. Either Sheriff Thomas didn't want to, had something to hide perhaps, or was getting paid off or was involved. Like, we don't know. But something fishy happened.

Years later, the sheriff's office admitted that some of the DNA evidence was never analyzed. Justin believes he saw something on the night of the homicide or something of the aftermath, but can't remember it. Then, this is worth, remember Tina? Who could forget? Oh, wait, the cop. Oh, wait, the literal sheriff of the town. Good point.

Three years to the day of the homicide, police got an anonymous tip from a caller saying they knew where Tina was. Oh, God. They followed this tip and they did find Tina's remains. They found a skull. Yeah. In a remote location known as Feather Falls, approximately 50 miles from the Keddie Resort in a Boy Scouts camp. The call was not investigated, was not documented properly, but it directly led them to her remains. Unfortunately, there was too little of her body left for investigators to determine what happened to her.

Excuse me, but according to All That's Interesting, near the remains, detectives found a child's blanket, a blue nylon jacket, a pair of jeans with a missing back pocket, and an empty surgical tape dispenser. Oh. So creepy. So they used dental records. It was identified as Tina. Wow. According to the medical examiner, Tina had died sometime after November 1st, 1981, which was six months after the Keddie murders. Oh. Yeah.

So either she was being held or who knows what. When Sheila, that was really sad too. She was interviewed in like this People Magazine documentary I watched. And she was like, they told me they found Tina. And I was like, oh, when can I see her? And they were like, and I'm like, you have to find a better way to phrase that. Sorry. Like, oh, we found.

So she was like so excited and her little sister was found. And then like, yeah. So apparently Sheila went to go visit her family's graves in the late 80s and saw that Tina only had a little tin plaque. So in 2002, she was able to afford a headstone for Tina and gave her like a full memorial service and everything. Wow. In 2004, the Plumas County Sheriff's Office agreed to show Sheila a timeline of her family's murders, but refused to answer any questions about Martin Smart. But here's what we do know.

So we found out later that Marilyn's daughter, Lori, who was living with her for a while, who's Martin's her stepdad as well, so I guess Justin's sister, Lori, confessed that after the events she was terrified of her stepdad Martin and went back to Oregon to live with her stepmother. A week after Lori leaving, Martin called the cops and said that Lori had run away, but then he later confessed that he had put Lori on the bus and sent her away. What? I don't know. Apparently he wanted her out of there. So who knows what she knew or whatever. According to Maryland, the night after the murders, Lori also received a call from an unknown number telling her she could be next if she didn't keep her mouth shut.

Ugh. Yeah. So she didn't even know about the homicides yet at that point when she got this call. And she's like, what? So she was terrified. She didn't know who it was. You'd think if it were her stepdad, she would have recognized the voice. But maybe it was a friend who would like

covered up his voice a little bit. I'm not sure. Then according to Lori, on the Monday after the homicides, she was called to the principal's office where they said there was a family emergency. And on the phone, her stepdad Martin said, Justin, her brother,

had witnessed the murder of five people, which is odd because there was a murder of three people and one was missing. so it was just like so maybe he witnessed tina or maybe the plan or something was or yeah maybe tina i mean he witnessed clearly according to her being taken he saw her being taken out it's true i don't know who the fifth person yeah i don't either oh god so that was just odd too because like it's just a very specific number um months

later martin went to jail for a different crime and marilyn literally never saw him again um well does marilyn say that it's probably him yes oh okay while incarcerated martin reportedly got into it sounds like everyone was scared of him too you know while incarcerated martin reportedly got into an argument with another inmate named Meeks and yelled, you know, I got her Meeks and I'm going to get you in the same way. So not a good sign.

In 97, the Pluma Plumas County Sheriff's office told Sheila that Martin smart was dead. Although he had wouldn't die for three more years. What? So like this, this sheriff department is effed up. I don't know what is going on,

but apparently he was literally remarried and living in Portland, Oregon, and they called her and told her he was dead. What the fuck? It's just really strange. Okay. The only thing she ever heard from Martin again was a postcard she received saying, Bo is dead, Marty. But Bo literally was still alive and wouldn't die for seven more years either.

And he lived in Holiday, Florida. So like they both went to like opposite side of the country and then tried to tell Marilyn that the other one was dead. Sounds like. That's so weird. So that maybe she would drop it. I don't know. Weird.

So in 2013, the case was reopened by the current sheriff, whose name is Greg Hagwood, and an investigator named Mike Gamberg, who both knew John and Dana, the kids, because they were the same age when they were murdered. Right. Which also goes to show, like, how long this has taken, that, like, now their sheriff in the town and, like, their close friend

or acquaintances, they finally want to solve this murder. He said the case continued to haunt him because he was now in charge of the evidence that had been left ignored or deliberately buried by law enforcement for three decades. Sheila says, for what it's worth, she's relieved. Finally, somebody cares and has taken over the case. Gamberg has re-interviewed it. Excuse me. She's re-interviewed anyone still related related to the case, although Martin and Bo by now are dead.

But like they can still be charged posthumously or like at least you know solved um cabin 28 was demolished in 2004 and actually in the buzzfeed unsolved um they did an episode on this and they went to the site in the woods oh wow and it was so creepy they were like walking through the rub like the rubble of it it's really creepy um so gamberg organized boxes from the case reports and noticed that like certain evidence had been put to the side, including one,

a letter from Martin to his wife, Marilyn, sent shortly after the murders. And this is literally what his fucking letter from Martin to Marilyn says. I've paid the price for your love and now that I've bought it with four people's lives, you tell me we are through. Great.

What else do you want? Oh my God well there you go which begs the question was Marilyn also involved and she didn't she didn't partake at the end yeah she didn't want to like didn't deliver didn't want to implicate her husband or I don't know she claims she doesn't remember the letter but she does recognize that it's Martin's handwriting. So it is confirmed to be a letter from him to her. Wow. Even if she doesn't remember it, which is like, that seems like something you'd remember. But Gamberg also found the anonymous phone call,

and they had never been analyzed, that told them where Tina was. And Greg Hagwood commented, why that sat in a sealed evidence envelope never opened. I don't have the answer to that, but we have it now. Years after the homicide, Marilyn came forward with a jacket she had found in their basement that had blood on it, thinking maybe it belonged to Tina. But Sheriff Thomas dismissed it and it vanished and he claimed he never remembered getting it. Uh-huh.

So. Okay. Shady. uh-huh so okay shady uh gamberg spoke to so martin the v he you know he was part of the va hospital in reno he had a counselor there and martin's counselor said in his seventh appointment just weeks after the ketty murders he confessed to the murder but like don't you have to tell if someone confesses they murdered someone like don't isn't that i'm pretty sure like isn't that like this is no longer patient confidentiality here like uh-huh you murdered somebody um so according to the counselor in may of 1981 martin said quote i killed the woman and her daughter but i didn't

have anything to do with the boys the counselor passed oh okay sorry the counselor passed this information on to the police at the time and was surprised investigators hadn't used this confession against Martin. I'm somehow not surprised. Yeah, so I forgot that piece was even there. The, oh, that's right. The agents the counselor had met with dismissed the confession as, quote, hearsay.

What? That's not how this works. That's not how it works. Someone had found a claw hammer using a metal detector also near a pond near the cabin, which matched the description. But when he found it, he didn't know what it was. So he just threw it into the lake.

Oh, my God. So he was watching. He was on a website later and like was reading about the case and was like, oh, shit, I found that hammer and called police. Fuck. And they went and got it out of the lake. Um, and they tested it, uh, for blood as an additional murder weapon, but still to this day, nobody's been charged. The case still remains cold, but there are six people of interest still alive, which just means

they might know something. Um, so according to Sheriff Hagwood quote, there are people locally who know more than they've said. And I believe we've identified some of them and we know who they are and we know where they are and I have every confidence that they either participated after the fact or they have first hand information. It's a theory we are working that Martin and Bo are involved to the degree possible to conclude or dismiss. There's a disproportionate

amount of evidence and information that points in their direction. Right. So yeah. To say like oh we have a hunch. Like whatever. Like they did it. They literally. They did it. They did it. I mean, he wrote in a letter, I killed four people. What more do you want from me?

No, no, no. That's your say. Right. That's right. We all forgot about that letter. Right. That love letter. Also, a lot of evidence just vanished after the sheriff already saw it.

That bloody jacket. Just nobody remembers it. Oh, my gosh. In 1987, Sheriff Doug Thomas, fucking, you know sheriff thomas his uh uh his deputy lieutenant don stoy recalled to the sacramento sacramento b the strangest thing is that there is no apparent motive any case without an apparent motive is the toughest to solve so they really just acted like they had no fucking clue what was going on but like yeah okay yes that's what i was gonna say sorry so but they're like, okay, well, what?

So now we're thinking, well, what is the motive? Because if they did it, but, like, why? I don't think you need one at this point. You don't need one. Like, clearly it's going to take another 30 years for you to find the motive. Just admit that they did it. Well, I have some theories, and I'm going to see what you think. Okay.

So many believe that, obviously, Martin and Bo were guilty, including Marilyn, who says Bo once said to her, it would not have bothered him to kill a child or abroad. Okay. Well, that's a red flag. Yeah. This theory would also explain why the three boys, which included Justin were spared, uh, even though there was blood found on the doorknob. So somebody either opened the door and looked in to see them. Someone knew they were there and didn't kill them, which leads people to believe it was them. Some people think they were part of, quote, a big dope deal and someone was at the wrong place. Apparently, Keddie had kind of a reputation

connected to the Chicago Crime Syndicate. And some believe Bo was actually involved with the federal government as a police informant. And the Department of Justice covered up the crime to protect their asset. And reportedly, Department of Justice special agents flew over in a helicopter right after the murder and they were like, and the FBI got involved as we know. So some people think there's a conspiracy here that like the government covered it up because Beau was involved with them on some sort of like sting operation.

That's, I think, a stretch. It's a stretch. It's fully a stretch. Because also, like, why is he murdering people? That's like a big stretch. Yeah, it's not like the department's just like, shit, he killed a kid. Let's just not tell anybody. It's just weird.

In another train of thought, according to Martin's counselor, Marilyn Smart said she had wanted a divorce the day of the murder. Okay. And Marilyn had apparently sought advice from sue weeks before because martin was abusive and cheating on her and uh sue had said you need to leave him right so it was her fault that's her fault yeah so when martin discovered marilyn had gone to sue sue became quote responsible for marilyn wanting a divorce. And especially if they were drinking and who knows what. And some people believe Martin was having an affair with Sue. And Sue was counseling Marilyn to leave Martin. And so Martin took her out of the picture.

But there's also a theory that Tina was the target, like with that creepy teacher. Maybe something was involved with the creeps. Who could forget? Who could forget? Everyone. The sheriff. Everyone. But more than likely, it was part of a cover-up with Keddie.

According to Martin Smart's counselor, Martin told him he and Sheriff Thomas were good friends. It's even been suggested they may have been involved in nefarious activities together. Sheriff Thomas used to live in Cabin 28 and even let Martin live with him for a while when he and Marilyn, so maybe he had a key. Who knows?

That just occurred to me, but perhaps when he and Marilyn were having marital problems, apparently he doesn't only do hypnosis. He also gave them marriage counseling, the sheriff at one point. So anyway, end of story, the Keddie murder still remain unsolved.

It's sheriff, Sheriff Hagwood's belief that there were more than two people who were involved in the totality of the crime, including the disposal of the evidence and the abduction of the little girl. Quote, we're convinced that there are a handful of people that fit those roles who are still alive. So it remains unsolved,

but investigators hold on to hope that Sheila, Ricky, Greg, the Sharp family, and the investigators will find justice. So anyone who has any information on the Keddie murders, including a counselor who works at the VA hospital, I guess, is asked to call the Keddie murders hotline at 283630. Wait, that's not a number. It's not a phone number.

At 123. Okay, it says 2830360 with no area code, apparently. Sure. Just go to Keddy Ked murder hotline on Google. Just talk to the sheriff. You'll find it. Just ask Jeeves about it, and they'll tell you where to go. Anyway, end of story.

Ask Sheriff Jeeves. That was long. He doesn't remember anything, though. No. That was good. That was a long one, but it was good. I knew there was going to be a lot of moving... You really followed it very well,

so thank you for helping me tell that with all the moving pieces. Listen, thank God for Justin. If it weren't for Justin, we would have not had a... Poor kid, though. Well, yeah. Yeah. Just like playing out like,

here, no, stab me here. Like... I hope he's had a lot of therapy and been given a lot of hugs. I hope he's had a lot of therapy and been given a lot of hugs i hope he's been had led a fulfilling fulfilling life filled life i hope it he's led with uh love and light and everything i hope everything sparks joy for justin okay okay anyway thank you for watching and listening to us talk for watching listening experiencing in 3, listening, experiencing. In 3D. Oh. OmniMax. Surround sound.

Are we on someone's surround sound? Don't be digital. Okay, well. Okay, let's hang up. I have to be. Let's hang up. Let's let's uh. Okay. Yeah. Let's close the door. What's wrong with me? Close the door. You go. Okay, thanks everyone for listening and

and and. No, and. Oh, right. You go. Okay. Thanks everyone for listening. And. And. And. No. And. Oh, right. Stupid me. That's. Why.

Me. Drink. Apparently.