And That's Why We Drink - E192 Comfy Chic and a Full Ass Exorcism

Episode Date: October 11, 2020

Move the embalming fluid aside and get comfy! Because this week, episode 192 is ushering in the spooky season! Em gives us an old-school haunting with an '80s talk show twist in the Snedeker Haunting. Then Christine takes us to Scotland for the wild and fucked up tale of Bible John, a dance hall murderer who confounded police for so long they gave out business cards to every man they eliminated as a suspect that said, "I'm not Bible John". We're also pretty sure this episode includes the sound of a hundred thousand bats flying out of our souls and leaving our husks behind... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Make an investment in your health today and try the ultimate all-in-one wellness bundle and support your immunity, gut health and energy by visiting AthleticGreens.com/DRINK. You’ll receive up to a year’s supply of Liquid Vitamin D for FREE with your first purchase!It’s time to customize your FabFitFun box for the Fall season! Sign up today to receive your first box and join a community of over 1 million women who are already obsessed. Use coupon code “DRINK” for $10 off your first box at www.fabfitfun.com.

yeah happy october october i don't know what day in october but i think this comes out in october i mean we're in september it's not like we're far away from october right now but i think this is broaching into Halloween season this episode that makes sense to me I'm glad because I don't know that it makes sense to myself I'm on I think I'm on my way to understanding excellent that is what I used to say all the time in high school I think I am on my way that's actually a really diplomatic way of being like what are you talking about I'm on my way to greater understanding to your level of have i crossed the finish line absolutely not i don't know i don't think i'm at i think i

accidentally created a bootleg finish line wait a minute somewhere far away and you got off course and now we're just kind of in the woods yeah i was by by finish line i mean the one that we created in like an industrial park we just drew it far away from the marathon with chalk and got lost anyway welcome to our show it's called and that's why we from the marathon. With chalk and got lost. Anyway, welcome to our show. It's called And That's Why We Drink. It's about ghosts and murder and all our inadequacies. Speaking of inadequacies, I have two things I would like to say, both about my own inadequacies.

Congratulations. Okay. One, I decided that I was also going to do the Myers-Briggs test again because I haven't done it in a while. Yeah. And if you listened to one of our last episodes. I think the last one. You said you were INFP turbulent. Yeah. I did it because I'm always kind of like on the fence. I'm like apparently a perfect ambivert. And so every time I do the test, I'm either INFP or ENFP. It depends on like your week that week. Yeah. Today I'm ENFP. Okay. Turbulent. Turbulent. turbulent no way i like how i'm so shocked also

are you calling me inadequate no i'm calling myself inadequate well maybe both of us yeah yeah i think you just took me with you on that ride i never knew turbulent was like part of the the deal here but apparently that's the funny thing was i read because my mom was like i'm assert she took it too and got assertive and i read them it was like what's the difference and turbulent was all negative. Like there was nothing like, but also turbulent people have this benefit. It's like, no, you're just kind of. I mean, I've never heard turbulent used in like a positive way.

So it checks out. It kind of has a connotation to it. Anyway, well, welcome, sort of. I mean, maybe you're a little more talkative than I am sometimes. Maybe because I today today apparently i am uh 65 extrovert 35 intro really oh i didn't look at the numbers but mine was pretty high i think people think i'm an extrovert but or maybe they don't i think it's because we're good at talking and so that like gives away like alludes that like we're very like yeah we're open to being

social loud um so there's that wait a minute you're onto something everyone's turning the volume down in their car um anyway well uh we have a couple things too oh you had another one i did i want to apologize to you because to me yes and i know you're gonna tell me that i'm being silly and i know you're gonna tell me that i have no reason to be to apologize but i like lost sleep over last night but like because like because of the the fucking the comment again that i made yesterday of classy trash why we've literally okay we've had this conversation separately outside from the podcast multiple times where i'm just like so into it and gets mad when i bring it up well i got mad i'm mad at myself i'm

not mad at you i'm projecting because no but so here's the thing okay so last night i was like i couldn't fall asleep and i was like i can't believe on the radio i literally called her fucking i'm from ohio like i get it well so i decided that i was going i went i spent like all night trying to find um what did you do well because i remember i said i was like there's you look like no there isn't a photo i tried though but i was like you look like something and i don't know how to describe it and then classy trash is what came out of my mouth and I was like there's got to be a better way to phrase what the hell I meant so I did a bunch of um I went on a bunch of vogue magazine what inserts to like figure out what style you made me a vision board in your head in my head yes okay so i an infpt and definitely turbulent and here's what i broke it

down to because there is a list where it's like the like the 40 main types of women's style 40 got it so i went through the 40 and i was like okay it's a hybrid of of a couple of these so i nailed it down to i think two and it actually goes well with today like i would still my my first rough draft would say this is also classy trash great but what's the rough draft the rough draft and now my second draft i would call it um boho farmhouse or modern cottagecore that's what i got it to so cottagecore yeah wow i like that it's like because it's like comfy but chic yes comfy chic i guess is really what the final draft oh well shit maybe you should have just said it out loud um i like cottage core it sounds a little scary um it's like if little house

on the prairie happened today but like they were kind of like in a city but like you're trendy they had tiktok or something like trendy prairie you trendy prairie we we like to come up with little house in the city okay okay anyway that's where we are well thank you i mean i loved i'm not gonna lie to you i really like the rough draft also so i might boho farmhouse i feel like that's also kind of working with you i don't know you boho farmhouse sounds like something you would like and I would like it sounds like a good combo so I feel like it fits also so thank you there you go I wanted to do a corrections corner on myself even though it was not needed but there you go I appreciate it deeply and now I have more words to now if blaze ever says like what style are you going for you've got quite a range yeah blaze asked me most days what style I'm going for that day

especially when we're both at home all days and I wear the same pants every day. And by pants, I mean no pants. But today you actually brought new pants to the studio. It's because I was wearing pants with a zipper and I went, I don't enjoy this anymore. I don't know why I did this. You look good. Thank you. So I bought these joggers and I was at Target and I realized this was coming out in October and I thought Halloween's coming up. So I bought this Drink Up Witches shirt. Looks good. you really can rock an olive green like none other it's one of my favorite colors um you're lucky it's like in these days i know because i just looked up all the styles last night i feel a lot i feel a lot of luck that olive green is in mustard mustard another one of my favorite colors and that one piece swimsuits are back

in style i was not having it not having it with the other situation um the monokini for a second oh boy it's just trash that hurts i think that was classy trash christy tegan's the only one that like really pulled that off um so good bless uh anyway well also happy almost spooky season or happy spooky season i started decorating my house already oh me too yeah it is looking great the cockroaches are impressed yeah the cockroaches are loving all the wow where am i fake spider webs mixed with the real cockroach nest um and then oh i had an update um a ghosty update oh hell yeah that i wanted to bring up on the show so uh since it's spooky season um so something else weird happened because a lot of people ask like oh are, are you still seeing ghosts or whatever?

Are you still hearing voices? And I haven't heard voices in a long time. And then, uh, like two, it was right after I got home from my last trip. So it was like end of August. I would say a couple of weeks ago. Um, I was talking to Blaze about, he was sitting on the haunted sofa, you know, and I was talking to Blaze. As you do.

Where do you sit that isn't haunted in your house? Poor Blaze. Where do you sit that isn't haunted in your house? Poor Blaze. And I was talking about the live show. And, like, it turns out the virtual live show, he had turned it off because it scared him too much, which I thought was, like, a good sign. Right? I was like, that's a big compliment. So I was talking to him about it. And then, like, out of the corner of my eye, I saw something going down the stairs again.

And I went, oh oh it's geo and then blaze was like look and i turned around and geo was over there and i was like and he's like christine i don't want to hear this like don't say this to me because it was right above his head and i went okay remember when we started this show and he was a skeptic yeah he's not having it anymore especially in his own house now um and so then i heard i heard footsteps upstairs and i was like okay it's got to be the cat because my cat stomps a lot. It's got big ass feet. Certainly was not the cat either because he was also downstairs.

So we were like, well, this is fun for us. And then that night I woke up like it was this does not happen often because, you know, you and I both have sleep troubles. But I like woke up like in like startled awake. Yeah. And I woke up and i was just like wide awake and everything was like silent and then all of a sudden like a few my heart was racing then a few seconds later um every like phone and uh electronic device in our room like pinged like it was being plugged in and i realized like the power had just like shut off and turned back on.

Like everything lit up and pinged all at once. That was plugged in all the alarm clock, whatever. We don't have an alarm clock. I'm not like 100. But you know what I mean. And so everything like the iPad and our phones went like the plug-in noise. And I was like, what the hell? So I was like, oh, the power must have like gone out for some reason.

And then I went to my like ADT security app. And it was like, no, no cut to power. Like no issue with the power. So like gone out for some reason and then i went to my like adt security app and it was like no no cut to power like no issue with the power so something is fucking with your in our room and it was such an incredible energetic surge that it also woke you up it woke me up before it happened which really freaked me out so i was like i wanted you to see i don't yeah it was uncomfortable at best and then so i'm like lying there and i'm like i just need to go back to bed and i like all of a sudden i heard the stomping and it was junie this time and he walked in and he like i don't know he has never done this before but he walks in jumps on the bed walks directly up to my face

and just like stares into my eyes and i was like bitch i know i know and i was like frozen because i was like hi juniper like can I help you I don't know what you're doing and he just kind of breathed like I could feel him breathing he was that close to my face and then he just stood back up walked out the door and I just like went back to bed but it was like the most unsettling face being like you better fucking fix this yeah he was like what have you done um anyway it was just very unsettling and it all happened in like a three hour period and I was like this something it was when I was saying oh i haven't had anything creepy happen in a long time and yeah my ghost was like okay anyway so that's my little update the thing with the everything

turning off and on at once after i woke up with a start was really unsettling and then juniper was like watching it was very creepy anyway well there's our weekly reminder that I'm never flying to Ohio. Okay. Well, we have one last update that's very important. Oh, oops. I'm not trying to totally take that away from you. Oh, I know what it is. Yeah, take it away.

No, no. Oh, no, no. Oh, no, no. It is that we finally did our gift videos, as we were saying, and we opened the big gift that we mentioned that a bunch of people apparently got got together and gave us a gift the patron group eva apparently knew okay eva also super downplayed it but maybe they also downplayed it to her i don't think any of us knew what was going on but basically we haven't been able to open our gifts or we've also been lazy and in the last two times you were here we said we would do it and then didn't but our we've had a lot of gifts since quarantine began right um that we needed to open and so we decided to

like do like a series of videos where we opened up a bunch of them and in the very last video we did which you can see all these if you're a patron right of ours but we got a wooden dildo we got we got two wooden dildos thank god thank finally it's been about time i finally have seen it all yeah um and was like what is this i was like hello it's a wooden dildo don't you remember someone like in their own like wood shop made us they smell great we have a lot of we have a lot of gifts of uh christine rubbing them over her face A lot of pictures of it, yeah. Just because it smelled good. But so in the last video that we did with our final gift that we opened, apparently a lot of people in the Patreon Facebook group

have been like getting together and arranging this big birthday gift for us that Eva was kind of in on. And Eva said like, oh, well, they're just, you know, like one of the bigger packages is going to be from like a group of people and so when I heard group I assumed like a couple people like group chat like a friend group or something yeah like they like you know I didn't think it was as many as it was but we opened this gift and the first thing we saw was

this card where it was like 200 people had all gotten together yes and, unbelievable. And not only gotten us some amazing gifts, which we're about to discuss, but on top of the wonderful gifts that we got, they also all together donated $1,000 to three different charities. Yeah, to Black Lives Matter, the Bail Project, and the Cincinnati Bail Fund. And I mean, I started like-

You started weeping. I was weeping. I was like really crying. But we also opened it and I was like, what could be in this big box? Like a giant lemon. And we also opened it and I was like, what could be in this big box? Like a giant lemon? And we literally pulled out a giant lemon. It was like a massive lemon purse.

Yes, it was like a big Kate's. It was a Kate's Made lemon purse, which I've already packed in my suitcase as if I'm going anywhere cool and hip and trendy. We'll take a picture of it and put it here for you. So cute. Also, if you're watching the YouTube, the YouTube, how old am I? Also, we each got a, if you don't know what crown and paw is shout out to them uh oh my god but we each got a little canvas painting of i got one of geo it's his head on captain america's body it's like a painting it looks like an oil

painting it's an oil it's a wonderful i should put it if i had a fireplace it would be above the fireplace and i got the like farmer and his wife which apparently is actually a farmer and his daughter i learned but of uh geo and juniper and it it's gorgeous it looks beautiful it i would pay i would pay so much yes it like it should be in a museum yes it should but this isn't tomfoolery no no this is no tomfoolery and then and then arguably the best thing that happened was i dug to the bottom of this box and all of a sudden i saw this uh this large box that said back to the future part two on it and i stopped dead in my tracks and i looked at christine and i said i think i'm hallucinating i need you to look in the here and tell me if you also see this you stop breathing because i have i knew it wasn't at the second i saw that box because i know what was in that box

because i've been wanting them since i was eight years old and now i officially own the nike air mags and they're light up by the way they're lit up uh back to the future these are not the like sixty thousand dollar ones that auto lace very disappointed in you guys but uh we were saying i was like if they donated a thousand dollars to charity and then gave you fifty thousand dollar shoes i would think we'd have a lot to talk about uh I have one of these since I was a child. But they're like so cool. Since the first, it's also I'm wearing my Back to the Future Part 2 hat. Right. I told Christine she's lucky I didn't even think about bringing my hoverboard or my jacket today. I feel very lucky, thanks. Could have gotten real crazy today. But so this

is, I have one of these shoes forever. They light up. They're gorgeous. They've got the little like the blue spackling on it um and etsy has a couple delightful shops where you can get all the extra modifications to make them look like super legit so i've already purchased those oh and sorry they also included like a little cork but usb drive that thumbnail my dumb ass i literally thought they gave us a wine cork and then christine was like no it looks like you pulled apart i was like don't put it on the trash it was a usb and they apparently all gave us birthday messages on there and i haven't been able to we don't our dumb computers don't have a usb drive so we're gonna watch it later today but wow it really that was

heart-stopping like we were totally taken aback so thank you and thank you to everyone else who mailed gifts especially that it took us months to even get to open yeah we're we're sorry i i just want to blame uh covid every way i can but also it was partially it was just hard whenever i would get together we had like a million things to do and it always got pushed as much as like it's shocking that em and i pushed back opening presents it sounds like impossible but it happened um so usually like for example you were only here for like 48 hours and like we had to do like here for four days but are you yes i thought yesterday was the first thing i saw you um oh no yeah space camp yeah i got there two days ago and then i leave tomorrow but fucking feels like 48 hours has not been does not feel

like 48 hours to me i can tell you that much the person who didn't travel it feels like i've only seen you it ends up being five days for a full day. It ends up being five days. It's a long time. We've hung out a lot. We've hung out three days in a row now. I know. Okay. Well, anyway.

Yeah, so it's hard to get everything in, but we did that finally. So we'll post those on Patreon. And we're just really thankful for everybody. Yes. Sorry this was such a long intro, but a lot to catch you up on. But I'm also really excited about my stories today it's just so wild and creepy like i lost sleep last night i was so creeped out so spooky time spooky season is beginning well this is uh this is one that i thought i had covered apparently

i had not i think i was mistaking it for the enfield poltergeist oh i remember that one um so this is the snedeker family haunting or the snedeker house uh this was the inspiration for haunting in connecticut where i think the enfield poltergeist was inspiration for the conjuring got it so i think i got those none of that means anything to me but great i got it well let's learn about half of it i am on my way to understanding what you're saying at the finish at the bootleg finish line you're almost there uh okay so this story takes place in 1986 um and this uh the house belonged to carmen and al snedeker uh they moved to this house it was in south uh salvington southington connecticut um and the address of the house by the way uh is 208 mer meriden avenue um i'm only saying it because it does exist all over the internet you can find the address in a

lot of places but it is a private residence so you're not like doxing well you are doxing them but everyone's doxing them it's very easy to find so i don't feel like i'm like spreading private information it is a private residence and apparently the people who live there are fine with you taking pictures from the road you don't don't do any further especially with the social distancing like we don't need that oh especially during that um but yeah so it's in southington connecticut and carmen and al snedeker moved from moved there from new york to be closer to the yukon hospital um and not yConn like University of Connecticut I think UConn yeah not like Canada UConn oh oh I was like what other UConn is there I was thinking like why UK oh yeah like UConn the

school to be closer to the hospital because they had a son who was dealing with cancer oh no and so they wanted to move closer to the hospital so that they would be able to so just be easier on all of them um so i'm gonna they were like it's gonna be so much easier if we move to this house and i imagine whatever's coming is not right exactly like oh we had a great idea and it ends up not being a great idea so one thing i'm gonna say is i am confused about the children's names it's definitely carmen and al or the parents but different stories have made it sound like there were three kids of theirs and one or two nieces that lived with them okay but the nieces either already lived with them or show up later in the story and i'm not sure

where what the accurate like the origin is yeah okay i don't know if they moved in and the their the niece also moved with them or if the niece moved in later okay um also their names are kind of wild so like the son who had cancer name is snedeker like it i'm expecting something there well i mean like it's like based on different stories there's different names i think some stories were for their privacy but then other places use their actual names so and then there's a movie based on them so they have their own names like fictional names as well so every character every character i mentioned has like three different names i see and it was for a while hard to keep up with like oh who's who but i i know from an actual interview that carmen and al did that the son with cancer's name was Steven. Okay. Although in a lot of

articles he's known as Philip and then there's another son they have named Michael according to their personal interviews but a lot of articles named him Bradley. Well I know this happens a lot at least in true crime where minors are given fake names or yeah in the media and then a lot of times later on the family will refer to them by the real name and then yeah it gets like mixed up so that could be i think that maybe that's what i dealt with and maybe uh i also didn't like watch the movie in preparation so maybe philip and bradley are the movie names oh sure or maybe there's a whole other set of names i'm not sure but steven is officially the son's name got it um and so they they originally moved into this house not only because it was closer to the hospital but they kind of like lucked out quote and that it was a very big house that could fit

their whole family which had at least their three kids and maybe one or two nieces got it um and it was cheap enough for them to also cover their medical so affordable uh-oh a big ass house that's cheap i wonder what's happened there yeah um and also uh they realized that it had enough rooms when you also included the basement where the boys would be sharing a room nope or at least sharing the space so on move-in day apparently steven right away said we have to leave immediately this house is evil and something bad is going to happen if we stay can you imagine if your kid said that you'd be like i just put down a like an act just got a mortgage on this house

oh god it's too late sorry go in the basement uh and so uh again there's different versions to this story and i don't know what's necessarily the movie versus what is reality versus what the alleged claims are okay so there's again three different versions because i'm gonna get to him later but there's an author named ray garten and he wrote a originally they were calling it like uh like a non-fiction book about everything that happened and he was using as much detail as possible to give as accurate of a story as possible and then later he says like oh no it's fiction so like you can't even really trust what the archives of this are

right um but the main story is that al when they are moving in goes down to check the basement um before the boys start moving their stuff in and he sees that the room is full of embalming table embalming stuff uh tables and medical tools oh no oh no and they just left that there apparently they just abandoned they just left all the equipment there and it apparently in that room they also had a chain powered body lift and one of the walls either was stained with blood or had a drain for blood goodbye and good night to everyone i'm not participating in this anymore so uh they realized that the house i don't know how they realized it or how they got this information but they find out that the house was called the hallahan funeral home and the body

lift was literally to lift corpses from the basement to the first floor well yeah i kind of guessed that at this point if we're lifting bodies anywhere i'm imagining they also allegedly found a small graveyard um out the back no um they also found drawers full of corpse photographs toe tags and personal items of the dead oh can you imagine just like what's in this drawer toe tags it's like moving into a totally stocked morgue yeah and like not cleaned apparently and there's like and that's where you and little timmy sleep like yeah they're he's like this house is evil it's like what no not this house can you imagine if you're al the dad and you're like no no no this place isn't evil don't worry let me go check the basement for you and then you're like oh shit i

can't really tell them it's like that thing where you tell your parents there's a monster and they're like no i'll check watch mom will go in the closet and look and it's like mom will open the oh there's a lot of embalming fluid in this drawer you weren't kidding so uh carmen and al actually did one of their interviews that is on youtube is uh they were on the show sally jesse rafael do you remember that show no it was like I mean I don't think it was around during our time it was like 80s well I don't know early 90s so it was our time but we were obviously not the bays we weren't watching it yeah maybe our moms were but it was like a it was a talk show oh no I don't know it my mom probably wasn't watching it either she only watched like um what you would call it Walker Texas Ranger and that's it i don't i'm i have a hunch my mom was watching

sally jose rafael um i i can see linda watching i don't even know what it is and i already know the answer yeah um and so uh on the show carmen said quote i didn't know it was a funeral home when i so this is also where the story gets weird because they say, oh, Al went in there and then he saw this embalming stuff. She says that they found out later and that there's also some, I'll read the quote in a second. I don't know if it's in this quote or if it comes later. But one of the other stories that came out was that Al didn't go down there during move-in day and saw all this stuff. But the basement was actually blocked up when they moved in. And it took a while for them to get all that stuff out of the basement and then found that stuff sure i mean if they were just full of crap you probably wouldn't like explore it until you

had the time so i don't really know but this is what um carmen had to say on the show okay i didn't know it was a funeral home when i came in the first time the downstairs was full of workmen and lumber when you went down the hallway to your left there uh to your left was where there used to be the chapel which is now our dining room oh my this is like getting worse and worse this sounds like your house right now I'm like oh what have I done here now you're a third person party to what I have to hear you talk about in your house I get it now and then she says i got the tv from an estate sale and there was a dead no i'm kidding oh my god i went wow i really you really you got me there i went like holy crap you were like oh man but i didn't get a tv from an estate sale okay everybody got a couch from

an estate sale be clear no electronics though you know well uh yeah so the to the left was the chapel where the dining room used to be. If you kept going into the kitchen and through our French doors, okay. What a flex. You would get to the basement, which was the morgue. Got it. The hoist went up to our bedroom. And to the right of the staircase was a blood tank.

Cool. I'm not going to ask. I don't know. I know we're all waiting for somebody to ask what that is i'm not i don't want to know i don't either i mean it sounds like it's a tank of blood you guys can google this for yourselves i'm not interested and then as you walked through there uh there was a sink where they flushed the blood and things of that nature okay we're going on with the blood got it on the sink was makeup and wax used to prepare the bodies so that was still there they really like just abandoned just left there were also three coffin pillows if you went on you'd find the north coffin room which is where my son steven slept if you made a right you'd get

to the south coffin room where michael slept i'm like so astounded at how extremely ridiculous this is that's like starting off pretty strong. I mean, the second they signed that paperwork, the people selling it were like, thank God it's off our hands. Exactly. They're like, wow, I can't believe some horse apps really just bought this place.

So soon they started having experiences, like pretty damn... I mean, it was asking to haunt you. Yeah, not surprised by this um and just so everyone knows too like a lot of people would say like why are you why would you stay well first of all they already just got this place because they barely could afford anything else because of all the medical bills for their son and they were convinced and became more and more convinced over time that the spirits were attached to them so So no matter where they went, it was going to follow them.

So they're like, we might as well just stay put. Right. So the kids first started hearing footsteps, which kept them up. And then they started hearing the sound of, quote, hundreds of birds taking flight. Ew, what a weird specific sound. I don't even know how that would sound. Ew, like flapping? Yeah, I just think of like a lot of bats.

That's really freaky um and they started seeing strange people in the house well like people that were not their family just walking around that's like an escalation if i ever heard they heard footsteps and and then all of a sudden i heard a hundred bats and then i saw a stranger man was in the bathroom yeah um woof let me see oh and then electrical sockets and light bulbs were described as having an unnatural glow or flickering on their own or completely turning off um on their own so there is one reference that i saw which i don't know if this is true or not but apparently um excuse me al was saying that the kids were this is kind of fucked up but it like does explain it realistically not supernaturally i guess all the kids were saying that they were so scared at night that they were

keeping the lights on and al was afraid of the electric bill sure and so he took all the light bulbs out oh no that's such a dad move it's like fucked up that like now the kids are still scared but it would explain why the lights would magically like disappear or like turn off and they wouldn't be able to turn them on in the middle of the night when they were right flipping the switch dad was like no no right under this roof steven apparently and also he's the one that is very ill yeah and um this it just reminds me so apparently he was the most afflicted by these spirits right and i've said this before on the show but um one of my own friends uh had a lot of medical issues um at one point in her life and she actually died on the table and in the hospital like 12 times right

and so and she's the one who has some uh psychic tendencies medium mediumship um and i in she attributes it and i also it makes sense to me she attributes that she's um able to uh have talents like that just because she has been so close to the other side it's easier to connect with i've heard that like near-death experiences or like right temporary dying yeah temporary dying i mean it is kind of temporary death it's like a quick death yeah yeah quick coming back uh but uh so i think that could be attributed to this too thinning the veil each time exactly spooky spooky so because he is the one that's kind of um more ill then he's probably closer to being able to see them or maybe they i mean this is really

fucked up but like um a lot of people have suggested that when you're sick because there's less quote life vitality yeah you're easier to um you're vulnerable your soul is easier to manipulate or something like that which i don't know how i feel about that but yeah heard it before and just a theory it's a theory. It's a theory. But even like they say with teenagers that you're more susceptible to poltergeist because you have so much more like frenetic energy or like hormones happening. So I wonder if there's any connection with like if you're... When your energy is out of whack, they will take a hold of it, whether it's you've got too much energy or not enough right um so he started immediately seeing things i mean day one he

said this place is evil so like that should have been the first time the family thought that he was hallucinating from his medications although like they went to doctors and said like he says he's seeing people he says he's hearing things but the doctors were like, that's not a side effect of his medication. Do we know how old he is? I think. I mean, he was a teenager. OK. OK.

So he's old enough. He's not like three and being like, I see. No, no, no. He's the oldest of the kids. He's like, this isn't normal. I know that this is not normal. He's like, he's seeing something. Right.

Yeah. And the doctors were like, no, that's not a side effect of his medicine. Wow. And Carmen, at first, obviously didn't believe believe them because the smaller kids were also seeing things. And she figured out that, or she assumed at least that, well, they know it's a funeral home. And we, like, gave them a lot of PTSD with them walking into a morgue and saying this is where we live now. So maybe they're just, like, coming up with stories. Put the embalming food aside and put your coffin your coffin put your toothpaste there put your coffin pillow on the

bed and lay down exactly so she's like they're probably just trying to like process that we live in a funeral home i get it yeah and so throughout the first months of living at the house apparently steven also started showing radical personality shifts super angry, super irritable, super violent. There is also, I saw one source that said that he allegedly broke into the neighbor's house and like got a gun and said that he was going to use it on Al. Oh my God, his dad? Yeah, I don't know if that's true, but that was something that was out there for the world. something that was out there for the world. And I think, I don't know if that was necessarily true,

but he just, most sources said that he was incredibly angry and super irritable and not himself. And the parents thought that maybe it was just adolescence or a reaction to like his radiation treatment. And like, they were like, we're not going to bother him. Like he probably feels like garbage. Like I'd be mad too. And then they realized that the sun was turning his anger towards like just writing poetry just as an outlet

but it was all about necrophilia yeah um so what's the what's the but in reverse what's what's all in reverse wow it's actually the sound of a hundred thousand bats just like flying out of my soul and leaving me here leaving my husk behind bingo so um so this is where i'm confused like apparently this at this point his cousin was already living there um i'm not that must have been the case because um what happens next is he attacks his cousin and um trigger warning but uh it's implied that he tried to sexually assault her no um and apparently that happened a few times and that's the end of that so if you if that's a trigger warning for you, we're done talking about it. It's over. Okay. Until we get to my story, which, as we know, at this point, every trigger warning is applicable every episode.

But apparently he tried attacking his cousins. And, again, there's that rumor that he grabbed a gun to hurt his dad. So basically the parents immediately, like, they heard that that happened to the cousin i don't know if he did it or he just said he was like considering it or something but they took him out of that fucking house and they were like they put him in a uh mental institution okay for a while to get um to just check like his vitals and make sure that he's what is going on take his temperature temperature maybe like read him a book let's calm him down heart rate's a little high um so they found out that on top of his uh like his already horrible

illness um that he was also um unmedicated or he wasn't even diagnosed yet for schizophrenia so he they ended up diagnosing him with that imagine that double i mean that's horrifying i can't imagine going through all of that in your mind like all the same time that's got to be really something else so um they got him on the right medication for that um he was doing better and after being there for 45 days they brought him home how do we address the minute i was like i think there's because we always some not we always we sometimes walk that fine not we but like the stories walk that line of like when we talk about like old timey hauntings. And it's like, is this maybe mental illness that was not detected or not taken seriously? Yeah.

The second I always see the note like, oh, and I started seeing things. I'm like, OK, but were other people confirming this? Right. Especially when it comes to like sexually assaulting someone. Right. And that, you know, that kind of. And also like wanting to like violently like sexually assaulting someone right and that you know that kind of and also like wanting to like violently hurt your parents right right right so okay well i'm glad that at least that was clarified a little bit wow so according to that

guy's book the ray garten who now they're saying like his book was like just a bunch of like sensationalized nonsense um ray says that steven actually admitted to his family um that he he did all those horrible things that he like said he had attacked people in his family um wait so sorry he had in the in the book it says it says that steven admitted to actually doing these violent things okay but then again like we don't know if he was just trying to sensationalize the whole thing or the author you mean if yeah if the author's lying um but uh so this basically aside from that whole like ball of wax while he was gone and the spirits weren't attached to him they started focusing on the rest of the family i see so there's still ghosts happening here yes so like on top of like cancer and schizophrenia and

assaults there's also spirits and toe tags and toe tags so he while he was gone for those 45 days the spirits took likings to other family members um and basically he when he came home it like the spirits came right back to him um but it took a year for carmen to start believing the kids and it was when the nieces kelly and trisha i think are their names when they moved in with them i guess they moved in with them because their parents were getting divorced and the snidekers were like well you can come stay with us sure i guess the ghosts weren't that bad yet or like i know maybe carmen still you know didn't believe in them plenty of room so she was like oh the kids think it's the place is haunted but you can come stay with us um so hmm okay what i'm trying to i'm trying to tread this lightly because- You're scaring me. Uh-oh. It's not paranormally scary, but if you are someone who, you know, if a trigger for you

is sexual assault, it gets kind of weird here. This story, we find out that the ghosts become succubus and incubus. Oh, no. Which, if you don't know what those are, they are spirits that- It's a creepy little thing. It's the creepy little thing that also their MO their mo is to sexually assault you okay so it i i won't get really in depth but we are gonna toe that line so if that is something that you cannot listen to that i would skip ahead maybe a minute yeah starting now um so one night kelly got into bed and she felt an unseen

hand groping her and that was apparently not the first time um and hands started moving under the covers that weren't there they tugged at her underwear and she felt hands on her on her body where they shouldn't have been she heard scratching on the walls she heard voices and she saw a black mask over her um kelly also felt her bra straps being pulled down she'd feel icy hands on her and she's this apparently she tried to um she was holding on to a rosary and she could feel something trying to peel her hand open no no no so she couldn't hold the rosary oh no no no no um and she said that she felt like the bed was vibrating or breathing and the rosary on the nightstand eventually the cross fell off on its own like it like popped off the rosary so she ran to carmen and carmen sat with her and read the read the bible but that was when she realized, that was when Carmen realized that there were spirits here because she saw for herself movement under Kelly's shirt as if a hand should have been there.

Oh, God. Saw a hand, wrist, arm kind of like go up a shirt and outside. Ew. So that was when Carmen realized what was going on. And so they ran downstairs. They ran to the dining room slash chapel and prayed and the incubus started getting more aggressive now towards Carmen and Al um this is kind of and by kind of I mean very fucked up oh but on Sally Jesse Raphael

Carmen and Al reenacted it what with like studio lighting and music oh my god which also makes people wonder like okay this must be a hoax because nobody who's ever been a survivor of assault like happily talks about it super openly on a television show like in a studio set setting like and maybe some people are comfortable and have like coped with it enough where they can talk about it but they were talking about it like it wasn't even hard for them to go back i wonder if it's different though i mean not i wonder if it being a paranormal thing it was just more detached feeling maybe maybe i mean not that i'm saying oh that was probably a fine experience for everyone but like sure i wonder if it's just i imagine that if you are

if this is an experience where you know a stranger or whomever it could be much more traumatic right versus not being able to see something and it seems less i don't know but then i could you could also argue it'd be super scary that like you can't see what's happening well yes and i think i imagine that a talk show in the was it 80s or whatever or at any point is probably going to have a an easier time making light of it sure if it's to be fair it was never no there was no like audience laughter or anything like they weren't trying to make it funny but they were still and also i'm speaking as one person and i have no right in making a sweeping uh generalization on this but it came across as like they were very very casual about it when i i would have not been so open to that right so i don't know

it just that was just a lot of people have said like they were really casual about it like i wonder if it's like also explaining it because i feel like you don't have to demonstrate what right and they all they did was sit in the bed they didn't like and like they didn't uh reenact anything graphic they just for some reason sally jesse rafael wanted them in a bed while they told the story well yeah i feel like there's probably some really amped up producers are being like oh let's get the most out of this also i imagine in the 80s like that yeah like you said like that was probably taken a lot more lightheartedly yeah anyway i'm sorry for like talking about that but also you should be warned that it's interesting if this is something that you wouldn't want to see on a talk show. Maybe don't go watch the interview on YouTube.

Right. Ugh. So without getting into a lot of detail, both Al and Carmen said that they were both completely assaulted by this thing many times. Okay, that's just beyond. I hope that's not a hoax. I mean mean i hope it's a hoax because i don't i hope it's a hoax but i also hope that it's that would be like so horrifyingly fucked up if you're like let's make up this story you know yes so i'm hoping it's not real but i'm also like what you know you know what we get it it's like i don't want this to have happened of course also please god tell me they're not making this up right so um apparently they would know something was about to happen because they

would hear music from the 1930s and they would hear multiple men laughing oh my god which is awful this is horrible i mean this is really freaky now that i've said that i promise i'm not talking about this stuff anymore for the rest of the story but it is it is a big part that i think should be brought up um first of all i would feel like an asshole if i didn't sure if i like tried to like skim over it throw that under the rug but also if you plan on looking further into this story you should be prepared that like this is the stuff that you're gonna see yes um okay so so that all the violent stuff is happening um confirmed by not just the nieces but al and carmen now that yeah and uh they all said that all of their beds regularly felt like they were breathing or vibrating which is really weird they also said that they would

see little um like footprints on the bed that looked like a cat like a ghost cat walking around but then they would feel like but then you could even see the indents looked like a cat like a ghost cat walking around but then they would feel like but then you could even see the indents of like tiny little footsteps walking on the bed but then all of a sudden you would see the indent and you would feel like the weight of a grown man sit on the bed so it's kind of like were those little cat footprints or was it a guy standing by the bed doing this with his fingers and then sitting down? That's so much worse. It's all bad. It's all bad. But so indents on the bed, potentially a cat.

I pray to God it's a fucking cat. Yeah, me too. Let's see. Apparently, there were times where they would literally like be running out of their house and they would feel something like trying to chase them. Michael once saw the ghosts and this kind of confirms the cat theory that when he saw the ghosts a few times but when he first saw them they looked different than how they slowly transitioned to look for him in the beginning they looked like they had cat-like eyes and they would be on his ceiling staring at him while he slept okay i don't love that and then uh

and then it turned more into like a general black mass but his sister he would hear his sister laughing or he would see the lights turning on and off by themselves oh okay um so carmen also said the spirits would and going into like his sister would be laughing obviously his sister was not actually laughing it was something impersonating his sister sure and carmen said that the spirits loved to impersonate the children um so they he would she would regularly hear them calling for her from another room and then over time once she got familiar with that it would stop doing that and it started becoming a much more guttural raspy voice cussing her out from different rooms um spirits would again follow them and not just follow them like you know they would

feel unsafe in random other buildings but like if you were in a building away from your home they would also like mess with the electronics there that's scary so it's like attached to them yeah like the it said um machines would malfunction one time al's car they were like they he drove somewhere and he got out of his car the car started itself and drove into a building what i don't know if maybe he just forgot to like park the car and like he's saying no it's really shitty driver um but uh that's the only upside to all of this is you'd at least have something to blame if you messed up right at any point in your life how do you call an insurance company they'll be like listen the ghost turned yeah you definitely don't you lose that one you lose it so carmen also said she would mop the

floors and the water would turn into blood cute and when other people would come into the room it would change before they could see it so she was alone i mean and that's like that whole thing of making you feel crazy crazy yeah like insecure in your own beliefs or whatever and uh the house started smelling like rotting flesh every now and then cute good stuff good stuff um items would go missing crucifixes apparently turned upside down. No, I don't like that. This sounds pleasant. Dishes would put themselves away. That's absolutely.

That's the best part of this whole story. Absolutely. 100%. Something I need. But apparently it was like at inconvenient times. Like the kids would set the table for dinner. And then as they're sitting down or they turn around, they'd be like, where the fuck are the dishes?

And they'd be back in the cabinet. I bet that's also like, now this is just me going way past our finish line and like making shit up but i wonder if also part of it is is pitting each other putting them against each other right separating like saying oh you're seeing this thing but as soon as you call in your husband he's not going to see it and oh the kids are going to set the table but now we're going to make you think they didn't and like steven like, no, I already put the dishes out. And then he gets in trouble. And then the mom's like, no, I did mop the floor, but there's blood everywhere.

And the dad's like, no, I didn't drive the car into the building. And everyone's like, dad, you definitely drove the car into the building. It's like, dad, that one's for sure on you. That one's you. And the younger brother, apparently, I don't know why he put himself in this situation, but apparently he once got on one of the gurneys and then it started spinning uncontrollably and he couldn't get off of it.

Oh no. And also that was a scene from the movie. So I don't know if it's more exaggerated in the movie than it is in real life. Maybe he like just couldn't get off the gurney. But I was gonna say the second it starts rolling, I'm like, help. So if it rolled a little inch

where I could definitely get off of it, I would tell everyone for the rest of my life, it spun uncontrollably. You and I would be like, what? One time the shower curtain wrapped itself around Carmen so she couldn't breathe. Nah. And her niece had to pull her out of the shower. Nope. Apparently Carmen also saw demons, and this was how she described one of them

one was very thin with high cheekbones with long black hair and black eyes the other had white hair and eyes and wearing a pinstriped tuxedo oh god um and his feet were constantly in motion so i just imagine like someone's standing there tap dancing oh i just picture like walking but not going anywhere. But yeah, that's what I picture. But either way, it's bad. It's all bad, as we like to say. Let me see.

Where were we? Oh, yes. The tap dancing thing. So eventually they got fed up. Can you believe it? And they contacted the Warrens, who were like fresh off their Amityville high. And so. Riding high. They brought brought so the warrens

actually brought their nephew john to come with them and they brought some other investigators and they were there for i think nine weeks and while investigating the team saw people getting like slapped and beaten and slammed to the floor and like just my god i mean these things were not hiding themselves they also heard the body lift chains moving on their own that's no good this is a quote from lorraine in a separate interview from sally jesse rafael lorraine said in the basement it was absolutely terrible when i walked down in the basement area i wasn't afraid of the darkness it was the dark oppressive feeling as i walked around the home that was absolutely horrifying just horrifying and the more i walked from the first room and the more i walked from the first

room that was a bedroom um we which we were to find later was referred to as the north coffin room something horrible had occurred in this place and i could see all the charred bodies because remember she was the medium between them so that sucks so lorraine like in there i think the way it went is whenever the warns would go into a house they did a walkthrough and she would just kind of go into her own zone and she would use her um mediumship right and try to sense spirits who were there and all she saw were charred bodies oh my god um and in that interview they said like out of all the cases you've done if you were to rate this like one to ten what would you call this and she said this was a seven wow and she said ten is like full-blown exorcist possession okay that's pretty high up there seven is like not a house i want to live in i'd prefer not

um and so one night during the investigation carmen was actually lying down in bed and she remembers she wasn't doing anything like the warrants didn't ask her to do anything she just on her own ended up in this eight hour long trance oh no and this is a quote from carmen on that i was transported into complete darkness i couldn't feel the temperature of my own skin i couldn't hear myself speak i couldn't see anything but blackness the entity opened up a hole above me and started shouting obscenities at me, which got worse if I prayed. So if she prayed, it got... What was it trying to do, you think? Take her soul away?

Maybe. She was apparently transported to this world that she, like, inherently knew was called Ethrium. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. Which was, quote, a desert road of hot tears and i was taken down this road of souls where i could feel the anger the emotion the hurt the desperation the sadness through my skin what the fuck yikes um apparently around this time john the warren's nephew where it was down uh sitting in the dining room and this is a quote from him he said the room got bitterly cold i could sense a presence around me and i saw an apparition starting to form and as this happened

john smelled a quote disgusting odor so fought so foul that it restricted his breathing and he heard the sounds of flapping wings and the apparition slowly walked down the stairs staring at him and apparently it was the ugliest thing he'd ever seen. This is really freaky. The thing got down to the last step, turned towards him, and said, do you know what they did to us? And John apparently left the house and didn't come back for three days. I can't believe he came back at all, but okay.

Whoa. The Warrens were also there to either confirm i think they were the ones who who were the first people to say this to the family but the warrens found out on their own that necrophilia had happened in the house which would explain why steven was writing poetry about that and they were attached to him and yikes you know what i mean yeah it's just a weird coincidence it is yeah the warrens found out that necrophilia had occurred in the the funeral home which probably is what caused the demons because the energies weren't at rest um so they brought in a priest and things were fine for a few days

after the priest blessed the house but pretty soon after carmen and al had objects thrown at them there there were scratches on the kids bodies and and the Warrens decided that they needed a full-ass exorcism with multiple priests. Full-ass. Full-ass. Full booty cheeks. Let's all go. So they did it, like, they brought in a bunch of priests,

had a huge exorcism, and apparently this was on September 6th, 1988. And this was, keep in mind, they moved in 1986. Wow. So this is two years of this nightmare um so it was a three-hour exorcism um apparently during it the dishes rattled picture frame shook there was banging in the walls and two of the priests left because they couldn't handle it um after the exorcism the last thing that they saw was a red footprint on the living room floor. Oh.

They don't know what that means. But apparently it was there after. The last remaining thing. Maybe like he was walking out. I don't know. But their nephew, John, the Warren's nephew, he said, quote, The house definitely felt lighter and the smell of roses came upon us. We all felt a sense of calm and relief.

And the Snedekers ended up living there for a couple more years without any problems wow they moved to tennessee um steven unfortunately he did go into remission for a while but it came back in 2012 and he passed um he's buried in elizabeth ten tennessee and uh the family has been on national talk shows in 2002 there was a documentary about them in 2009 the haunting in connecticut came out um there is controversy like i've been mentioning that the family maybe a lot of the family maybe didn't experience the activity but made it up because they needed the money for medical bills for their son no that's a weird way to go about it though so they think like maybe if they stirred up enough attention. I mean, they were in Connecticut, which isn't far from, you know, upstate New York.

Amityville. Oh, I see. Had just happened. So maybe they were like, if we draw up enough attention, we can get the warrants here, publicize this. A lot of people think that they wanted to do this for the press tour and all that so that they could get the money. But it is also hard because I feel like if you talk about it, then people immediately are it's a hoax but if you don't talk about it then like nothing happens people are like why aren't you talking about why aren't you telling people so it's a weird like that's that's the big crux of it or that's like the big uh assumption is that it was for medical bills sure

um which like i understand wanting to do anything for your kid that's sick. Yeah. And, but at the same time, like, when you think about, like, the assault accusations and all that. Yeah, that's a lot. You could have just said you had ghosts, you know? Right. And I think, well, I wonder, too, maybe if some. Or maybe it happened. Maybe some of it happened and maybe they were like, let's amp this up. So that's another theory.

You know what I'm saying? Like, make it. Oh, oh, oh. You know, you're on track here. So you're. That's never happened before. You are. What is it again? You're on your way to understanding. I'm on my way to understanding what you're on you're on track here so you're you're it's never happened before you are what is it again you're on your way to understanding my way to understanding what

you're talking about um so dan daryl kern is uh the former owner of the building and he confirmed that the building was hallahan funeral home okay um but like i said earlier carmen has said like well we didn't know it was a funeral home until later um so neighbors say that the family absolutely knew it was a funeral home even though they're saying oh we didn't know until we moved in and moved things around no no everyone that knows them for the most part is like there was literally a sign that said funeral home on the house oh but carmen says like well it was covered with plywood because they had closed up shop and then we were moving in so we never saw because it was under plywood we never yeah i guess maybe if you're frantically trying to move in while dealing with the health issues maybe you were just kind of like

skipped over that so a lot of that's a lot of people are on either side of that being like okay if it literally said funeral home like you could have known if you took the plywood off. Maybe there was no plywood on it at all. Who knows? A lot of neighbors say that they never heard about any activity until all of a sudden they started getting behind on their rent. And so all of that, they're saying, well, we didn't hear anything. But then you can argue, well, they were probably dealing dealing with this privately and then it came out in the middle of them also trying to figure out rent um another big argument for like this is a hoax is that

the house they were in was a duplex and they had an upstairs tenant who never had a fucking ghost and so a lot of people are like why on earth like when she at least hear something oh you know yeah and uh or like experience something so their neighbor was sandy and sandy also like just to like the chef's kiss of this argument is that she also worked for the real estate agency that the snedekers used to find this house yeah and she was like as someone who worked for the company they used to find this house they would have been told this was a funeral home like there's like I lived there and there was nothing what if like what if like Al was told but he just like didn't say it you know what I mean and then he was like I didn't know maybe

and she was like so he didn't upset anybody in the family or something I don't know that's a great argument I don't know it's just like maybe one of them knew but didn't want to say it. But so like I said earlier, I couldn't even like know all the kids' names. And there was like a lot of like, I don't know when the cousins moved in. I don't know. So there is no, allegedly, there's no solid details about the story at all except for the fact that Stephen had cancer. That's the only thing that we can confirm across the board. Which is such a the fact that steven had cancer that's the

only thing that we can confirm which is such across the board bummer i'm like that's such a true fact okay great um but then again you know there's an argument to everything like it could have been like oh well they were minors so their names were changed so right right maybe it's not really controversial it's just like they were trying to protect their identity. So Carmen and the niece also happened to apparently love the movie The Entity, where one of the characters was, quote, attacked almost identically to their experiences. Oh, dear. So there's an argument that they could have just reported what they'd seen in a movie.

And who knows, like, if not again to just like throw them under the bus but who knows like how much could be like subconsciously trying to you know uh project like what they've seen in a movie onto what was they were experiencing right right i don't know man also there's a neighbor named joan fucking joan there's always a neighbor named joan and joan apparently she was on their side for a while. She was like, I've seen the family running out of the house in the middle of the night. Oh, dear. And like saying they would not go back inside. But there's another quote from Joan saying they never seemed to be afraid.

They were always laughing. So it's like maybe the family was, you could argue again. The parents are trying to like keep their spirits up and like trying to distract the kids and make something light of it. But also like why were they running out of the house to begin with? Joan also did say that she herself had seen a mysterious green glowing coming from their windows and she was stung by a mysterious force when she walked into their house one time. Could have been a bee.

Oh my God. And Joan says, quote, every time I have been a b um and jones says quote every time i have seen carmen on tv on tv so like maybe the sally jesse jesse rafael show um anytime i've seen carmen on tv the story became more and more involved and got bigger so even jones like i believe it to an extent like maybe there were ghosts but they really amped it up right right um which again you can argue like if they were doing this for medical bill money like of course they'd want to amp it up for tv right um which again you can argue like if they were doing this for medical bill money like of course they'd want to amp it up and also that's a hard thing once you're like signed up on a tv show to like you want to tone it down when the producer are trying to get you

want to deliver yeah exactly um so when asked again why they didn't leave carmen said that she was afraid they would get followed but then there's other versions of it where she was like apparently unaware that things were going on. She said that only things happen to the kids. But then it's like, well, you also said you got assaulted. So there are some inconsistencies. But also that could just be a timeline thing because she didn't know for like a year. And then things started happening to her.

So maybe those are just taken out of context and two different perspectives from different times. texts and two different perspectives from different times um it has been said that rather than being attacked by supernatural creatures maybe the family was coping with being abused and harassed by steven right because he allegedly admitted to being violent with his family and even if he wasn't he was he still had attitude shifts and like was writing about necrophilia and so apparently right and he was very ill like theyrophilia and so apparently right and he was very ill like they were probably coping with the trauma of like right they're probably sure yeah exactly two diagnoses coping with many levels of things um and so ray garden the book that he wrote was in a dark place and this is also he's not loved by the family because apparently he

remember he did like this like really outlandish version of the story. Right. And so members of the family really don't like that book because they're like, he made us look so fucking bad. He made it seem like this was what really happened. And so therefore, a lot of the stories out there about this case are muddled now. And like nobody really knows what officially happened right unless you look at some of the interviews that the family did um but that being said like he also can he also like helped confirm that this was sensationalized because just hang on a second

let me just say it so ray garden he was actually commissioned by the warrens during their investigation to document everything so that he could write a tell-all book about it and so a lot of people with that backing were like oh this must be a non-fiction book because the warrens themselves are telling you to write this book right um but now ray claims that the book was fiction because apparently just like how a lot of people have said well their stories don't always add up ray himself was like their stories didn't add up. And I was the one in the house with them talking to them. And I couldn't get straight answers from them.

Yeah, I see. He said, quote, I found that the accounts of the individual Snedekers didn't quite mesh. They couldn't keep their stories straight. The family was going through some serious problems. And I became very frustrated. It's hard writing a nonfiction book when all the people involved are telling you different stories. Right, right um right and so even al's sister nancy has spoken out so that she hates ray for some of the things that he said about the family but then ray defending himself is like i didn't want to say

those things about the family but one i was confused by what people were saying and apparently not only were the family stories inconsistent but the warrens told him to sensationalize the case oh which makes people wonder about the legitimacy of the warrens yeah then i gets no fucking house of cards at that point apparently the warrens quote arranged for an exorcism but they never provided any evidence of this apparently ed only ever referred to the priest as father a and if you ever ask for more information about this guy, he would get real fucking hostile. Whoa. He, like, did not want to talk about it. And apparently, the local Roman Catholic archdiocese even says that there's no officially sanctioned exorcism from this house.

That's not a good sign. And Ed accused one of the neighbors of being, quote, paid off by the landlord to say the activity wasn't real. Even though maybe that's not true and the got and sandy was like no i fucking live here nothing happened yeah um and also one uh very famous skeptical paranormal investigator named joe nickel he even said that he had doubts and ed allegedly threatened him jesus um and during an interview one of the reporters realized that ed was like being real hush hush about like giving direct answers and said like, hey, can you answer some more questions for the sake of credibility? And Ed Warren said, I don't care about your credibility, pal. Pal.

Pally. You hear me, pal? So Ray says that he went to the Warrens upset that the Snedeker's testimonies didn't match up. And I guess because the Snedeker's have said like, Ray made us look like trash. Ray in defense is like, whoa, the Warrens made me do this because they're the ones that commissioned me. And this is a quote from him. He said that he went to the Warrens to complain that like the Snedeker's testimonies didn't match up and he wanted to do the book justice. But Ed said to him, quote, oh, they're crazy. All the people who come to us are crazy.

You think sane people would come to us? Just use what works from their testimonies and then make up the rest. Just make it up and make it scary. Whoa, that's not a good look. That's not a good look, especially because the Warrens are like, I'm a big fan of them. Yeah, they're like the tops. This is not a cute look, pal. So the last thing I'm going to say is the current owner, her name is Susan.

And Susan says, quote, most people are respectful. They stay on the road. They might take a picture. But we have had some problems with people kind of rudely coming up to the door and scaring our kids, telling them that the house is haunted. Don't do that. Why would you do that? And then she says, we've lived in the house for over 10 years.

Our house is wonderful. This is all Hollywood foolishness. Hollywood foolishness. Or you could say the exorcism worked if one existed father a so his job i'm sorry that was so long but holy shit that was a juicy one every step of the way there was something to talk about so that is the i can't believe i've not heard of this and you can watch their interviews on youtube and all that um snnedeker is spelled without a C, in case you're wondering. It's S-N-E-D-E-K-E-R. I was wondering. Wow, thank you.

That was a tale. A tale. A tall tale. A tall tale, indeed. This is the story, Em, of Bible John. I've heard of Bible John, but I don't know what the hell this is. Well. Is it a guy from the Bible?

No. Okay. I mean, John is a guy from the Bible. Okay. But this is a dude who calls himself Bible John. Is he a priest or something that did something bad? No, no, no. And he does not call himself Bible John either. Oh, see, I clearly know nothing. Yeah. I am learning. I am on my way to understand. You're actually not not i think you are about to be way uh they haven't shot the gun in the air yet for me to go yes you're running in the other direction okay actually but um i'm still in the bathroom changing you're stuck you got stuck in the bathroom okay this is the story of bible john and it takes place in uh scotland where the bible took place where also the bible took place and ck took place takes place took place um so this is the late 1960s in glasgow and uh it's the biggest second biggest city in scotland just surpassed by edinburgh the capital remember that time i

called edinburgh because i yes i do not that intelligent when it comes to scotland just when it comes to scotland only it comes to Scotland. Only Scotland. That's the one Achilles heel. You tell me anything about Canada, maybe I'll have an answer. And maybe it'll be right. Probably like 1%. Perhaps. OK.

So let's see. We have a lot of fun things from Scotland. We have CK. We have Haggis. We have the Loch Ness Monster. We have David Tennant. We have the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. We have one of my ancestors, according to Ancestry.com. Congratulations. Thank you. So now there's this case, which is no good.

Okay. It's the bad part of Scotland, I guess. Fingers crossed my ancestor is not Bible John. I really hope not. I certainly hope not. I certainly hope not. That would explain the turbulent in my personality, though. Yeah, it would a little bit. Yeah, it wouldn't explain mine, but it would explain yours. So February 22nd, 1968, an auxiliary nurse and mother named Patricia Docker, who's 25 years old, put her parents in care of her son, Sandy, who's four years old, while she went out dancing with her friends from a hospital to a dance called the Majestic, otherwise known as the Magic Stick. Okay.

So Majestic, Magic Stick, close enough. Remember that time we got wooden dildos? Magic Sticks. After dancing for a few hours, Patricia suggests they hop over to another dance hall, but none of her friends want to go, so she goes by by herself and she goes to a dance hall called the borrowland also known as the bars i'm probably saying this all wrong because i'm not saying in a scottish accent say it like shrek and you'll you'll have it down no i'm not going to and i suggest neither of us do because excellent we get enough emails um so the borrowland ballroom has a huge neon sign says

borrowland surrounded by images of like explosions and yellow pink blue green um the sign according to their website is believed to be the biggest of its kind in the uk oh which that's fun yeah why not um so on a thursday night they would have these things called grab a granny night that's fun well it was the the idea was that if you were over 25 and single you were a granny because you weren't married yet or you were single you're a spinster i thought it was like take your grandma to the club no no no i've been fun it's also a little iffy in my book because I'm like, don't grab anyone, please. In my head, it was like, bring your grandma to the club night. Me and Jackie Glickman would tear it up, OK?

Miss Jacqueline Miriam Glickman would tear it up. So this was this secret, quote unquote, weekly night where people didn't use their real names. They would take off their wedding rings uh if they had them and uh basically if you were unhappy and over the age of 25 and married this was kind of where you would go to hook up with a partner on the dl you know what i'm saying yeah um a little creepy with the grabbing don't love that part but um i don't love that like we're grannies at age 25 but you know whatever uh so patricia was married to sandy's father who was living in lincolnshire lincolnshire i don't know in northern england where he was an raf corporal which we learned that raf raf we were doing a

ouija board and they he kept saying raf and then I remembered that the guy Eva said Royal Air Force or something yeah she figured it out she was like do you mean Royal Air Force and we were like and it like shot to yes and we were like oh we're dumb okay Eva uh so it's unsure like they weren't divorced but so we don't know if she was going to meet somebody or if she was just going to dance and have fun. Like, we're not sure why she was going because she was married. So who knows? But it's Thursday night and it has some reputation, you know, attached to it. So maybe that's why her friends didn't go with her. She went by herself.

We do know she got there because people reported seeing her in a distinct yellow dress. But unfortunately, this was the last time she was ever seen alive. So the following morning, February 23rd of 1968, Maurice Goodman of Carmichael Place was heading toward his garage around 7 or 8 a.m. when he saw in the doorway a naked body. He ran indoors, still shaking from his discovery called police and the corpse which was found half frozen because it was from winter time uh was patricia so they were able to figure out that she had been strangled to death with a ligature

but there was nothing nearby so they didn't know what it was um they also did not see a purse or a handbag uh dr james imri who's a pathologist believed it might have been done either with a belt or her own tights perhaps gotcha uh and the way in which her body was lying the police also believed the murder took place um somewhere else and then the body had been placed there after she had died okay um so it's more this is just where things get really weird and wild is she was clearly on her period when she was found and or when she had died and there were several sanitary napkins lying around okay like scattered huh so just woof i'll remember that i feel like that's important it is is. Or at least it comes back. So the police lost vital time on Patricia's murder because they initially went to the magic stick, the majestic, because that's where she had gone.

And it wasn't clear at first. It took a couple of days for them to realize she had gone to the borrow land afterwards. And so that is probably where she met her killer right yeah so uh locals were asked questions divers went into the river to see if they could recover any belongings um there were like signs everywhere asking for more information but unfortunately no justice was found for patricia and because she had gone by herself to the bar um there wasn't much to go on there was no CCTV this is the 60s there's no DNA um well there is DNA but we just didn't really get it yet

uh so this is all until 18 months later in August of 1969 32 year old Jemima McDonald left McDonald left her three children with her sister Margaret and went dancing at the bar land, wearing a black dress over a white shirt. So it was a Saturday, and Jemima regularly went to the bar land. This was like she was a regular, basically. The following morning, Margaret became concerned when her sister was not at home to pick up her kids. Uh-oh. Yeah. became concerned when her sister was not at home to pick up her kids oh yeah so later on in the day margaret overheard some children gossiping about finding a dead body oh god in an abandoned tenement housing nearby or an abandoned tenement yeah right so this must be a really hard decision

she decides to go check it out herself having kind of like a sinking feeling so uh she passes through the crowd she sees this body and she sees exactly what her feet what confirms her fears a corpse wearing a black dress over a white shirt that is her sister jemima so when the police come to investigate they noticed a few similarities um between patricia's murder 18 months earlier both mothers had been at the bar land both had been strangled and even though jemima was not found naked her handbag was also gone um and both were on their period she was also on her period so once again jemima was found with sanitary napkins kind of around her body so police again

questioned locals and interviewed people who were at the barlands that night didn't get much information the only thing they could gather is that she had been spotted on the dance floor with a man in a blue suit he was described as six foot tall thin with short hair short fair red hair and was aged like 20s late 20s early 30s um and then people said at the end of the night they left together so very generic description of a man not much to go off of yeah uh especially because in Scotland it's much more common to have red hair it's not like a wild wildly ridiculous you know not that it's wildly ridiculous here either but it's more common for sure definitely i would say more common yeah um so jemima's siblings tried to offer cash reward uh for any information but nothing just dead end um then for the first time in the history of scottish murder

investigations police released a sketch to the media and apparently this was not a common the crime junkie covered the story and according to them at least it's it wasn't a common thing because law enforcement was worried it would lead to legal troubles if they did catch the person and then had like a sketch and if that would hinder their proceedings because maybe like if they got the wrong guy or something like or maybe that i think it was maybe that the defense could use it as saying like well what you're gonna like go off a drawing and that's how you're gonna identify it so i don't know if that's what it was but it seemed like it definitely was not a thing they'd ever done before it was not commonly this was like one of the times where

they actually use this is the first time ever oh wow yeah so first time in history of scottish murder investigation police released a sketch to the media um they had a local portrait artist named george lennox patterson uh paint a portrait based on the collected testimonies and again he was six foot tall thin with fair red hair and was aged in his late 20s to early 30s so um just kind of a generic dude uh so while this investigation was going on, on Wednesday, October 30th, 1968, which was about two months after Jemima's murder, 29-year-old Helen Puddick and her sister Jean went out for a dance at the Barland. Helen's husband was not super amped that she was going, but Helen was like, I'm just going to go dance. Like, it's all good. No worries.

amped that she was going but Helen was like I'm just gonna go dance like it's all good no worries and uh the two of them went out so they started off at the Trader's Tavern on Kent Street then arrived at the Barland uh just after 10 p.m. so at the Barland Gia and Helen were seen dancing with two separate men both named John and again it's iffy because people would go there and change their name because they didn't want to get recognized so of course everyone would pick fucking john too exactly so it's not clear if their names were john or if like they were just like friends and they were like oh let's go call call ourselves john right right so it's it's uh that makes it even more complicated. So John Jay was dancing with Jean and John H was dancing with Helen, which that's interesting that it's John Jay with Jean, H with Helen. Didn't even realize that until just now. So John Jay was apparently a builder from an area called Castle Milk, but John H never revealed where he lived or in town, like where in town he lived.

So approaching midnight, different sources say either Jean or Helen's money got stuck in a cigarette machine when they were trying to get some Embassy Blues cigs. Okay. But either way, John H. begins arguing with the manager. He gets really worked up, really upset, and he calls the dance hall quote a den of iniquity oh those are fighting words i think those are strong words so after this john jay is like peace i'm leaving y'all can get a figure your own way home so john jay leaves and john h says why don't i take you gene and helen home in a taxi bad news uh-oh so weirdly enough we have a photo of this too but helen's flat is first on the route like her flat comes first but um they he dropped off Jean first. Right.

So it was almost like they went farther to drop off Jean. And then, yeah. They didn't do it in the right order. Right. Just weird. So Jean is dropped off before the taxi continues on to Helen's flat. The taxi driver says he drops Helen off around 1230. And after dropping her off and driving momentarily john gets out of

the taxi is what the taxi driver says okay so they dropped her off and then he says we drove for a bit for a few moments and then he got out of the car it's like he didn't even really need to go anywhere it's like he just seemed like he probably wanted to know where she followed her out of the taxi like once they dropped her off he's like good night and then like drove a block and was like let me out if that makes sense i thought in my head it was like he was he just wanted to like drive her to her place so he knew where she lived so he could come back later and do something but no it's instant yeah that's why i think he dropped off gene first because he was like i have plans yes i'll be busy tonight one yes um so the following morning a body is found by a neighbor

walking his dog and later that day when george goes to the police to report helen missing uh detective superintendent joe beattie took him aside asked what helen was wearing that night and when george described her outfit joe said i'm sorry i'm sorry son your wife's been murdered and it's just like really sad because george was like i don't know if i feel comfortable with you going out alone with your friend that's awful yeah imagine the guilt yeah if he didn't if he was already hesitant and now it's like yes exactly it just didn't end well and he had a feeling about it yeah so uh although joe beattie wasn't originally convinced that the cases were linked, there were like a lot of weird similarities between the cases of Helen, Patricia, and Jemima's murders.

First of all, all three had been at the same place the night of the murder. Secondly, all were found relatively close to their homes. And then thirdly, there was this MO of they were all strangled and they believed Jemima was also strangled by her own tights fourthly oh my god although helen was fully closed her handbag was also missing so that was another part of the mo and fifthly helen was also menstruating when weird found her right it's not just a strange just like coincidence yeah or like how would he have known that exactly weird right it's not like you run around like telling people you just met i mean i do but you know i'm not necessarily also like

it's not like you can really find a way to like weave that into your conversation and get a direct answer from someone like he couldn't have directed that information out of her it's just a weird way especially in the 60s i don't think it was as like yeah commonly spoken about as it is nowadays no like women didn't even pee or fart or anything right right god forbid god forbid um period that's just that's that's lore lord no no no shivers uh what was my name again um surfer red surfer wow the red surfers reporting on that's me quite a tidal wave so again helen was also menstruating so although the murderer had strewn sanitary napkins about with the others he had tucked one under helen's armpits huh it's not strange i don't know what

that means i mean it probably means nothing it probably maybe like he was like damn you're sweaty like let me just throw something in there you're a little moist i don't know should i start doing that with you when you get sweaty maybe that actually might throw a pad on your arms a pit pad a pit pad so question do we oh well never mind they were strangled i was gonna say maybe if it was like a really bloody death then like it was just like blood on a different part of her body placed there but no i'm trying to think of like because it's so bananas yeah and they also had like pads with them or like sanitary napkins with them so weird okay yeah it's really weird um it's really weird

so there was a difference though between the bodies of patricia jemima and helen and that is that the murderer had left a bite mark on helen's body oh so arguably if this is the same person he's getting more and more intense yes because also he left a semen stain on her clothing yeah so it's just bad it's just getting worse so were they all actually assaulted? I don't think the first two were. Just the last one. I don't even know if they checked or like if in the.

They just saw semen on her. On the third woman. And the first two. All they said was they were on their period. So I don't know if that was like. Weird. Checked or not. Okay.

I mean, again, there was nona sampling so no answer's good i just yeah so on the third victim they actually saw a semen stain so they knew but i don't know about the first two um so jean helen's sister was brought into questioning three days later and when she went to the police office she was shown the sketch that had been drawn after jemima mcdonald's case the portrait artist sketch um to which she said that this man was him she claims to have never seen the picture before um although it was a little strange because it was like all over like plastered everywhere the sketch and it was even at the borrow land like up for people to see so it was a little strange she'd never seen it before right and then saw and went that's him but maybe she is oblivious like me and just didn't

um anyway so the things she remembered from that night were that at the bar land john h had said he had a sister he mentioned having a caravan in irving and he mentioned that he had a cousin who recently hit a hole in one in golf you know what with that amount of information you could find just about anything I'll just find his myspace for you anything Christine can do it's drive in reverse and find anything on earth about a person if you just give her like the color of one of their eyes yeah i i'm that is one thing that i'm what a skill i mean i know most especially especially quote girls like are very good with like internet sleuthing yeah but you really are like queen of it oh well i appreciate that because i work very hard to

develop those skills and then when i got a temp job and was literally placed at a private investigations company i was like this is my dream you're mecca yeah and you could tell christine i saw someone three years ago who had a blue shirt on that day and i don't remember where in the world it was could have been beijing could have been my own house and christine will be like i'm on it that was jude law it's always jude law what if that was the point of the story is that i'm always just like, I found him. And it's like always Jude Law. Anyway, with that much information, that's my Achilles heel is that everyone is Jude Law. So it's a little bit of a struggle.

It's weird that you can find anyone and yet you only find one person ever. Yeah. So in some ways, I have a little bit of a hitch there in my plans. But one day when you finally get him in your car, you can show him how well you drive in reverse. God, I can't wait. And then you'll be like tapped out on Talon, I suppose. No one will believe me that I actually saw him.

But it's OK. I'll know in my heart. So anyway, she tells them his cousin hit a hole in golf on you as a sister. And they're like, OK, that's good news, I guess. She remembers him being around six foot tall, slim, with auburn or reddish hair, wearing a Reed and Taylor branded suit, and having an overlapping tooth. So, Jean has said, quote, he wasn't the Boroughland type. Many of those who used to go were kind of rough or drunk,

but he was nice, very nice, polite, and well-spoken. Sounds like a pillar of the community it's certainly of that community indeed it does uh in the taxi home with her and helen jean remembers his full name either being john templeton john semplson or john emerson she said she can't remember but it sounded like something similar to that so he apparently in the taxi continued to speak about quote adulterous women and uh to lighten the mood one of the sisters asked what he got up to for hogmanay which is new year's celebration over there to which he replied i don't drink i pray which like wolf oh my god congratulations okay this um den of iniquity it's all making a little more sense now

um and so that is the kind of anecdote that the media latched on to and nicknamed him bible john because he seemed very virtuous i didn't know how to tell you that at the beginning without explaining the whole story okay well i was wrong yeah well what i thought it was not that we usually are so it's okay uh john i this whole time i've been here in the name john didn't even click it was bible john yeah that's him there he is well that's okay that's okay i like when i can make it click you know what i mean you know what's fun is like it was a really easy switch to flick on and i just didn't even but i like doing it where where i get to to be the one who watches it happen.

It's shocking how shocked I am. It's really the thing. Oh, Bible John. They then began to talk about foster children. John said they were all right. Great. So-so. They're all right.

Come see, come saw. Which is, I guess, John's biblical opinion. And he cited Moses as an example. Is this our fourth fucking Moses? You're right. Holy going on that's really weird is there a nelly in this there's not i don't think so there's a jemima though that's pretty good a george jemima there is a george that was uh helen's husband's name remember oh shit yeah we really need to find that nelly yeah we got to find her um so yeah uh he mentioned moses being found in the reeds as an infant and so he was a foster child so it's okay to be a foster kid whatever

moses had to deal with i guess we can also deal with whatever moses thought is okay with me um jean's testimony became the base of the investigation because she had actually interacted with this man and like was in a car with him right before he murdered her sister. So she had like a very close interaction with him. Someone who chose to remain anonymous thought they saw Bible John around 2 a.m. on the night of the murder getting on the bus. He had mud stains on his jacket and a red bite mark on his cheek, which shows that maybe they were fighting.

So contradictory to Jean's description, the manager of the bar described Bible John as dark haired and around five foot eight. So not red headed. Not red and not six foot tall. So it's a little odd because you'd think, well, she spent more time with him, but also this guy yelled at this manager

and was like, this is a den of iniquity. So they had an altercation. So you'd think he'd remember that one of them would remember that they saw the same guy but maybe he got them confused maybe he thought john h and john do you know what i mean like maybe yeah no no other one was yeah you know the non-bible i finally get it don't worry i'm glad someone gets it uh either way a new portrait was drawn um but at the glasgow school of art based on gene's testimony and released to the media um i'll show you a picture real quick there it is look at him i mean that's like a real like portrait that is some that's that's over the mantle the next uh captain geo not on my mantle oh well i don't want this fella on my

mantle you know if he weren't a killer, he looks like a sharp man. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's why he kind of could get away with getting these women alone. Get away with murder? Literally, yes. Correct, yes. I gotcha. So on top of this, police went to golf clubs to see if they could get information about

anyone's cousin who got a hole-in-one recently. I thought you fucking meant that they walked up to a thing of golf clubs. Like, golf clubs. Like, the club. Uh-huh. What? I said they went to some golf courses. No, you said golf clubs.

Oh, I did? Yeah. Oh, well, then that's my bad. I meant golf course. But then I thought maybe in scotland they called them like club houses like country club but when you said it i thought they literally all tried to interview a fucking bag of clubs but i was like i immediately don't get it again no i'm so sorry that's my bad uh they walked up to a golf course they didn't walk up to it i mean

i guess club houses they walked up to golf courses i meant golf course and i my dumb ass just said maybe you said it and i heard club who knows they'll play it back whoever's listening knows except we don't someone else is like i'm skipping 15 seconds this is so stupid this is really dumb um you're you would be correct in that assessment so they went to these oh i did write golf clubs just kidding but yes a golf club like a country club i understand that golf course they asked a bunch of golf clubs just kidding but yes a golf club like a country club i understand that golf course they asked a bunch of golf clubs what they had seen okay jesus that's how it came across yeah i get it i get it i did write golf clubs and then the golf club said i was like doing this at like three in the morning i'm so sorry um so yikes so they went to these golf courses to see like hey

did anyone get a hole-in-one and do they have a cousin um so then they went to these golf courses to see like, Hey, did anyone get a hole in one? And do they have a cousin? Um, so then they went to the dentist to see if anyone knew about this overlapping tooth fella. Uh, then they went to churches to see if anyone knew Bible John, because he was clearly very religious. Uh,

then they literally had a group of police officers known as the Bible John dancing squad, dancing squad, who went out to the bar land pretending to be people just wanting to have a good night out but were actually undercover to see if they could find wow they actually did a lot with very little information well that's what i'm thinking right i was very impressed by all this they even had an art tutor like create a beautiful oil portrait holy shit um so then they said we would go for the months for months we went to all the clubs not the golf clubs the club clubs i said we would go to the bar land where bible john had picked up

his victims we all also went to the majestic the denison palais palais oh god the plaza we talked to hundreds but we never saw him um so they tried didn't work unfortunately they also had tip-offs from people who had seen the sketch on tv and that led to 5 000 different suspects but none of them all didn't oh my god uh gene then had to attend 300 police lineups or what they call over their identity parades which is a lot more so much more exciting festive yes uh which sounds fucking nightmarish she had to go to 300 of them and every time thinking maybe i'll see that man who murdered my sister must just be so fucking exhausting jeez they took 50 000 statements on the case and whenever a man who looked like he could have been bible john was cleared um according to another article in the Scotsman, the police gave them a card that said, I am not Bible John.

So they got a special card just in case. Someone has that and is selling it on eBay. Can you imagine? I would have purchased that, actually. If anyone has that, I'd put that up on my mantle. Because it's also true if we have it. If it is correct. I am also not Bible John.

I deserve a card that says it. So everybody got a special business card, basically. if we have it if it is correct i am also not bible john i deserve a card that says it so this is so um so everybody got a special business card basically i guess so you could go to the club and be like no no you can come home with me i promise i swear this is police this is official this is officially licensed yes there's wax seal on the back it's it's official um however there wasn't much evidence like or there's not much information explaining what they did to even protect the women it was more just like here young men we don't want people thinking you're a murderer so here's a card to go pick up the pick up the chicks but you know at

the same time like i don't know what the hell they were doing to actually protect women at this point but whatever um internationally acclaimed dutch clairvoyant i don't know if you know about this guy's name is gerard crozet i don't know how to pronounce i sure would love to know crozet i have no idea um he helped out as a quote gesture of goodwill uh according to the daily record when they interviewed a former detective he remembered gerard crozet having stayed in the murder investigation suite for about two days, then asking for a pair of Helen's underwear because he said it would help him solve the mystery. So creepy. He then stood on the underwear and declared.

I'm sorry. Was that a typo? No. It's what happened. He stood on the underwear and declared bankruptcy. I declare bankruptcy okay he stood on a pair of helens underwear i'm not even making this shit up and declared there would be another murder committed by bible john near sterling that's the ultimate prophet right there yeah well my next bullet is quasi i don't know how to pronounce the name i'm probably doing it terribly

is widely known as a fraud is he yeah and according to wikipedia a dutch parapsychologist psychometrist and psychic who is often asked to help police detective trace missing persons though authenticated successes were few and compared against the failures his success rate was ruled no better than chance so he would just kind of like stand on people's underwear and yell i guess of course which like i mean i could probably do that but okay he said that bible john lived in govern i don't know i think that's how you say it near glasgow and gave a detailed description of his house which also i think is really shitty if you're a fucking fraud and now you're like derailing the investigation and right picking random you're like oh it has shingles it's like what if it doesn't and now

you're just leading them to the wrong place yeah it's like an amateur getting in the way of a stand yes of a real operation in 1996 because of dna advancements uh the police finally had a key suspect they thought bible john might have been an army officer named john mckinnis who had originally been questioned uh but wasn't identified during one of the identity parades if you will um he however he had died by suicide in 1980 so they couldn't like re-interview him um and unfortunately his family was hounded by the press claiming that he was bible john even though there was no proof of this um and so john mckinnis's sister provided a a DNA sample, which came back as... So they...

John McInnes' sister provided a DNA sample, which came back as an 80% match with the sample found on Helen's body. And then they exhumed the body of John McInnes and DNA tested him, but it was not a match. Okay. Okay. Long story short, it wasn't this guy. Right. Okay.

So now this is... We're 27 years later. It's 2010 gene passes away and uh because the dna sample found on helen is no longer usable the case has been cold ever since so even with all that so with originally 5 000 suspects um there are theories as to who it could be there's a book called dancing with the devil written by a former police officer named paul harrison who claims that he has evidence that whoever bible john was he was definitely a police officer at the time golden state killer wouldn't be the fucking first time um in the book harrison claims that joe beattie the detective had questioned the officer who was bible john but was then told to drop the investigation so there's like conspiracy

shit there. Harrison states that Jean told him she was sure that Bible John was a police officer and also believes that Helen wasn't the last of Bible John's victims. So if that's true, that's creepy. Some people believe the murders were the crimes of a famous serial killer named Peter Tobin, who's a Scottish serial killer

who's currently serving a life sentence for three murders he committed since 91. In May of 2007, he was found guilty of the rape and murder of a woman named Angelica Cluck. And after this, when police were searching his previous property, they found traces of the remains of two other young girls,

Vicky Hamilton and Dinah McNichol. And he is linked to multiple cold cases. He does have a link to they they found a link to him in the bible john murders and launched an operation called operation anagram um but they didn't find like any real proof but the the theory is supported by the following information he did live in Glasgow until 1969, and according to the Scotsman newspaper, he met his first wife at the Barland.

Yeah, when she was 17, and then he raped and tortured her before she escaped the marriage. If you see photos of him, it does look quite like the portrait of Bible John, but it's kind of generic looking dude again so uh you know he employed multiple pseudonyms in his life including the name john semple sempleton right remember yeah she said either emerson sempleton or templeton john semple uh peter tobin's ex-wives have gone on to say he would be very angry when they were

on their periods aha but still how did he know that so that's an interesting theory that i also heard which could be that he had been sexually assaulting women and then when he found out that any of them were on their period maybe he was enraged and he would kill them yeah so the goal wasn't always to kill them that's at least a theory which i and then he hit a triple whammy and all of them had well like maybe he was raping other women and they just didn't come forward oh and so when they were on their period he maybe snapped that was one theory that i thought was actually very interesting because it's like that would explain why he wouldn't know that right you know if it happened after the the fact yeah wow okay so that's one theory that i thought

was very interesting and very horrific um he was also known for keeping souvenirs and uh he even kept one of his victims purse so could be that he was also obsessed with religion and he bragged in jail that he had murdered 48 people. But that's also a thing people do sometimes to just look cool, I guess, in jail. So although the Barland murders were in 68 and 69 and Angelica Kluck went missing in 91, at that point, Peter Tobin would have been in his 60s. And so Detective Joe Beattie is like, I don't think this man would have started murdering people in his 60s and so detective joe beattie is like i don't think this man would have started murdering people in his 60s like he probably had victims before that so they could have been his victims does that make sense yeah no that makes sense um okay so angelica's body was discovered a year previously under the floorboards of saint

patrick's roman catholic church in uh glasgow not far from where helen was discovered in 1969 um now the only thing that like throws a wrench into this theory is that he got married on august 6th august 6th in brighton in england and stayed there until august 20th with his now ex-wife um and that was the period that the murder would have taken place so he would have had to be in scotland and england at the same time so it doesn't add up it doesn't add up uh because jemima was murdered on the 16th and he apparently didn't come back until the 20th so uh bible john targeted three women in their 20s and 30s whereas tobin targeted

teenagers typically young women vicky was 15 and although angelica was 23 she looked much younger so people think he just his victimology like his type was a lot younger sure so that doesn't really match um in the murders of patricia jemima and helen have at this point gone unsolved and no one has been charged as being bible john um detective jackson who was on the case, has regrets. He says he can't shake the sense that the investigation was doomed from the start. And although Detective Joe Beattie is like typically spoken about with admiration, a lot of sources say he was using the case as like a publicity, trying to make a name for

himself. And that one officer, I guess, says that he knew something and didn't like he knew it was another police officer so that would be real shady yeah so i don't know the bar land is still an operating music hall uh they've hosted the likes of david bowie u2 snow patrol and a band called the stranglers which ah not very tasteful uh in a 97 book called bible john hunt for a killer written by two journalists from the scottish sunday mail there is a postscript with some words from helen puddick's son david who was 28 years old when the book came out in 1997 he never really knew his mother and has said quote i wanted the murderer to go through the same pain mom did the killer was on the loose and i was doing nothing about it i find that hard to cope with

he didn't exist i can't let her memory go and that's the story of bible john wow i've heard of bible john and obviously did not know any of that but like yeah wow i can't believe he never got found isn't that horrifying i thought it was kind of like such a classic story that had an ending to it i know because he has a name and you'd think like oh bible john he must have been identified but no right that's why i was that's the first kind of generic drawing of him and then they made this one of him when uh gene said he had red hair it's a shame he's kind of good looking yeah he is he's a you know that's i guess the ted bundy complex white dude i would say um yeah so that's that on that on that end of story wow thank you for

listening to me talk yeah i think that was a pretty action-packed episode it was really wild huh yeah first good way to start off uh halloween i suppose spooky season is upon us and my next one is very spooky too oh yeah we still have a whole other one we're gonna record right now lord alive a whole other episode where people can be dazzled by my shoes dazzled by your hat and your shoes that give them the old razzle and the dazzle you know i just i'm so glad those stupid fish flops are not involved anymore oh yeah the second that i found these i was like the fish flops you literally said you're i said fin and gill you're fired that's right uh and on that note i will say uh goodbye and good luck you can follow us and that's why i Drink.com and our social medias are ATWWD. Nope.

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