And That's Why We Drink - E200 The Burbank Fish-Flopper and a Homicidal Rhombus

Episode Date: December 6, 2020

Episode 200 is finally here!! Can you even imagine a world in which Christine doesn't know Em is a clown?! Or that Em would be surprised that a member of Christine's family set a bear loose in town? We're taking quite a few walks down memory lane today and we've got some fun, throwback announcements to go with it! We just released a kick ass, limited edition ATWWD comic book that brings our very first episode to life! We also released vintage merch that's lived with us in all our recording studios (and Em screen printed with their very own hands). Em also made us all a digital escape room so we can celebrate together from afar. And we've got some surprise guest appearances from Lemon (who is safe and sound and quarantining with Em) and the story of a newly blossoming, real life friendship with Farmer Bob. For our stories today we decided to keep with the throwback theme and revisit the topics from our first episode: The Winchester Mystery House and Jonestown! We had a blast giving these OG topics a fresh coat of paint with our current research methods. We even discovered some new details we missed the first time around, like the Winchester Mystery House is even more of a fire hazard than we previously thought and Jim Jones just might have been the only straight person in the entire world. Most importantly, thank you to everyone who has stuck with us on this wild ride. We can't thank you enough for helping us spiral this small idea of ours into the chaotic fever dream it's become. We couldn't do it without you! But perhaps most importantly, even after 200 episodes, you can still call us daddy and we'll sell you a monkey... and that's why we drink!Get your copy of our brand new, kick ass comic book and vintage merch here: atwwdmerch.comCheck out Em's digital escape room here! (For the best quality, please use a laptop instead of a phone. Thanks!) Bit.ly/atwwdescaperoomPlease consider supporting the companies that support us!Don’t spend a minute of your holiday season at the Post Office this year. Sign up for Stamps.com instead. There’s NO risk. With our promo code, DRINK, you get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in DRINK. That’s Stamps.com, enter DRINK. Stamps.com – Never go to the Post Office again.Shop Native’s holiday collection TODAY by going to NativeDeo.com/drink, or use promo code drink at checkout, and get 20% off your first order.ThirdLove knows there’s a perfect bra for everyone, so right now they are offering our listeners 10% off your first order! Go to THIRDLOVE.com/DRINK now to find your perfect-fitting bra… and get 10% off your first purchase! That’s THIRDLOVE.com/DRINK for 10% off today!You can get $10 Off your first pair of Feetures—just in time for the holidays! Use promo code DRINK at feetures.com for $10 off your first pair.

all right take it away christine i was hoping you'd start that way uh i'm very glad that my improbability is kicked in immediately hello mom and dad wow okay so Okay. So our first hypothesis back in 2017 went a little different than expected. More people than just our moms listened to this episode. Oh my gosh. I can't believe it. It's so weird because, well, okay. Hello, everyone. This is our 200th episode. Welcome to us being arguably the most extra we've ever been. Can you believe it? This is so wild. I've been so emotional like the last two days. Christine texted me yesterday out of nowhere just to say, I'm proud of us. And I went,

I'm just like, I was so emotional. I texted my mom. I was like, I can't believe we're doing our 200th episode. Em, did you listen to the first episode? I did. We sound so tiny. I got hives. I was like, I can't do this. I had to do it in chunks.

I was so stressed. I was really embarrassed for myself. I've just because like, not that there's really a right or wrong way to podcast, but obviously we didn't entirely know what we were doing yet. No, we didn't. I think it's a nice pinpoint in the scrapbook of my memories to be like, oh, look how much I've grown. I don't really talk like that anymore. I'm like, look how little I've grown.

I sound just exactly the same and I drink just as much but did you do you remember recording it I remember where we were sitting I remember it kitchen table we kicked Blaze and Alexander out of the room and I was so nervous oh my god I remember not really knowing you well Gio fucking hated me and i hated him let's talk about that uh geo really you guys did not get along we did not it was one of those friendships where like later on your first like real confession to each other is when i first met you i thought you were a bitch and but like now i love you that was the relationship we had for sure it was oh my god i i honestly am i was like like emotionally i was like tearing up listening to it i was like this is so a weird glimpse into our friendship it was

one of those things i obviously hello i'm dramatic so one of my uh things that i do often that probably no one else does is when i get really nostalgic I play things in my head like a dramatic montage that they do on like the 100th episode of a tv series and like it like all the flashbacks like kind of play one by one and I was thinking when I listened to that episode like you said uh that like you were nervous about getting on stage for improv and like look what the fuck has happened to us since so like and you were like yeah I would never get on stage well it's wild to think that when we were having that conversation I we really knew nothing about each other and you were telling me about Linda you were talking about Linda and I was like oh like I had no concept of who Linda was

now I'm like oh my god can you imagine a world in which I don't know Linda it was one of the last days where you didn't know I was a clown and well, that's the one part that I really miss is that part of my life where I didn't have that information. Also to get like selfishly sappy too. Like I had no idea you'd introduce me to Allison. Like I know I didn't either. Trust me. We had no idea I would officiate your wedding either.

Like a lot of things have happened specifically to me. So specifically to you. I know it was your wedding but you know i take backseat and watch it happen as usual i'm good let's put it this way at your wedding i was center stage you were slightly to my right you're right you're you're right you were literally in the middle of the church like or it's not a church but like in the middle of the aisle that's true um well okay okay. So we wrote some notes, I think, here on like things that happened. Sure did.

Or do you want to talk about like what's happening? We have big news, I guess. Let's say that. We have, we have, wow. Okay. Oh my gosh. So much is going on. We didn't prepare for this very well.

So that's, nothing's changed in that regard. 200 episodes might as well be one. So, yeah, let's talk about uh let's talk about the big news first let's get all updates out of the way okay okay okay big news big news we've been working on a big project it was m's amazing idea and it's come to life i take it away oh my goodness so um i don't know if it was it was it was a small idea that uh just kind of spiraled which seems to be our chaotic neutral correct and um obviously i i don't read books so obviously that has also not changed but i but i do read comic books and uh i thought wouldn't it be cool if we had and then that's

why we drink comic book and so we decided that we were going to hire one of my friends who is a very wonderful artist his name is justin and uh he made a comic book of our first episode that we did i mean i was like oh okay m i mean go for it i don't really know what that means but it is is, I mean, great. Good on you, because it is, like, just primo. Good on Justin. I had the idea, and then he just ran with it. It's so cool, guys.

And also, again, because I don't read, it's a very short comic book. It's only, like, a dozen pages or so. But there's so much art and detail that went into it. And he found a way to make like Jonestown like uh yeah it's like the top it's like basically a comic book of us telling going through our first episode so like uh uh Winchester and then Jonestown but like in comic book form with us as kind of like guides it's so cute I'm so excited very precious so anyway uh that is now as of the time you're listening to this available but we only have a limited amount of yeah comic books comic

books have very specific guidelines you have to follow apparently so you have to order them in a very specific amount like a certain batch of sorts and then like yeah so anyway we only have a certain amount there's only a couple hundred out there right or no a couple thousand there's five thousand i'm not sure how many we ended up with it's either 500 or 5000 so it could be really really rare could be really rare um but if while it's available it might only be available for like today only then uh then uh you can get that at our website so thank you and it's at atwwdmerch.com because it's being sold through our merch, folks. They're lovely enough to help us send those out.

So thank you, Justin. Thank you to our merch folks. Thank you to everybody listening who is considering buying one. I'm going to buy one because I don't know how else to get my hands on a copy. So I'm very excited. And then we have other merch selling too right

we do okay so we thank you to eva because my ass would have forgotten um but so evo actually brought one in uh if you happen to recognize this um let me do like a little backsplash if you were to recognize this this is one of our original wine glasses. So if you recall from a couple episodes ago, last time Christine was in town, I surprised her and decorated our entire apartment and like unboxed everything. Right. And while I was there and when I was unboxing things, I found just so much like old school first time merch. I had basically taken it from my house where it had been stored in a

closet for over three years and then just dumped it in the apartment. So yeah and it used the last time that we used that merch was when Christine was literally shipping everything out from like from House of Pies. Yes. And and so then we ended up working with a merch company, and then we never really had to ship that stuff out. So we never thought about it again. But I realized how much stuff we still had. And so we have original wine glasses. We have original koozies that used to get sent out to all of our Patreon people when we had like 10 Patreon members. That was one of your special gifts.

members uh yeah that was uh one of your your special gifts and uh all of the original and that's why we drink shirts that i personally screen printed on my lunch breaks at my old job at work and handmade them and then geo hand covered them in his own dog fur that's true though they're the ones you might have seen them um before or um on on tour a lot of people who had original shirts would wear them um to our shows but on the back it has it looks like a tour it was us manifesting a tour one day right and it was uh the locations were the original 10 stories that we covered so there's like guyana for jonestown like to this day people are like did you really go to Guyana? And yeah, we did. We went to the jungle. But anyway, so we only have so many of those.

And they are never going to be made again. I'm never going back to my old job to screen print these shirts. Em is not. I'm never going on to like custom ink or wherever I was making those wine glasses and like hand spinning the logo. So whatever we have left left we are now also for our 200th episode we are putting that out on our website as well so please go get that while you can it's a limited edition it's like a throwback to our og merch exactly um what else was i gonna say was there one more thing yes there was so also speaking of merch, we are very aware that our Black Friday slash Cyber Monday deal went a little too well.

And a lot of things are completely sold out. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah, it went really well. A lot of people have also been asking us to, you know, offer merch again or to put out more sizes. So we are on top of all that. or to put out more sizes.

So we are on top of all that. But just so everyone is aware, if you're hoping like, oh, I hope I can get something before the holidays, there's a chance that we're probably not going to have things back in stock again until after the holidays. Right. So just be prepared for that. So there are things available still,

a few things that are still available, but then a lot of the ones that are out of stock, basically,'re saying are they won't be restocked yes okay they will be they will be eventually but if you're hoping to get it by christmas i we cannot promise that that's the case um just letting you know it will be there eventually though there's a live laugh lemon hoodie y'all so somebody better get on that and buy that before it goes out of sale because i'm gonna be mad speaking of lemon uh what we have a guest an honor an honorable guest today you brought lemon i brought lemon um my sweet boy everyone here at cast studios is just calling the authorities just like they're like i don't want to do this anymore i fucking quit um here is a a dried up lemon from a hotel encased in glass um i i just wanted to prove to everybody because for the last year he's been with me during quarantine and everyone thinks i like killed lemon

who's a lemon by the way way, a dead lemon already. He's already dead. Everyone like, I'm not saying I get legitimate hate mail, but I get a lot of people like getting real wordy in defense of Lemon being like, where the fuck is he? Because you won't show us to him on Instagram live. I was starting to get worked up. People were like, riling me up in my DMs. Like, you need to make him prove it.

He's fine. I'm holding him hostage. If anyone asks, he's doing great and he'll agree today. And then he goes back in the closet. So he has to hold up a newspaper with today's date on it to prove. He has to do like a free Britney thing and like wear a yellow shirt or something. He's wearing a yellow shirt. Oh my gosh.

That means he's in trouble. Uh oh. Anyway, lemons in the house so there you go thanks lemon love you love you mean it um wow em well that's a very exciting update thank you you're welcome um also before i forget uh because we obviously started with uh you know wine and a milkshake i did bring a little milkshake in before people are wondering it's hanging out right here so okay well since since we're doing that then i i just want to add that in the first episode i was drinking boxed trader joe's wine and this morning i drove all the way to trader joe's oh whoops and i bought this box of trader joe's shiraz and i had a chocolate milkshake so look at us look oh my god i just sent eva a picture of my shopping cart i had to wait in line in 29 degree weather because trader joe's is has a line out the door so you're

gonna be real warm after you drink that baby so don't worry open this while you tell your updates you're gonna crack into it crack into it okay well now that we've uh had that little 200 episodes later moment i would like to give you two updates so one of them i'm nervous well i'm nervous about both of them to tell you i'm nervous about everything well one of them i'm nervous about because by the time this episode comes out fingers crossed it will be completely done but um i haven't finished it yet so i feel nervous and i'm motivated by fear that i uh that i actually get it done in time but as i i couldn't do this i feel bad because you're for our 100th you were here and wow was that an extravaganza where there was yes presents galore and as i posted on instagram i

lost my security deposit to the confetti yeah that's how big of a celebration it was that was one way to go um but uh i feel bad that like we have to do this digitally and you're not here for to get any presents so i was like well i I want to give Christine some sort of digital present. What? So I'm currently in the middle of slash by the time this episode comes out, there will be. I am trying my best to make you an online. And that's why we drink escape room because we know how the first one went.

I promised I would never make another escape room. But here I go lying to myself. And we're going to make it available for everyone else to also do. What? So I know I'm panicking because I'm like, fuck, I really got to get this done. But I'm in the middle of it. And I'm really liking it. But I'm also disappointed with technology that I I literally

tried to like figure out how to like code video games it's been really wild oh my gosh it's gonna be a definitely a dumbed down version because guess what I learned I can't code video games so so it's like gonna be like basically like a google drive situation but we're going to give access uh to everyone so if you are listening to this and i have done my my work and my job and you will be able to play exciting so we'll have that link somewhere in on the cyber sphere so i cannot believe that how cool so i i hope you uh i hope you like it i'm sorry i can't just present it to you but the second that i'm finished with it it will be sent to you. And I would like a review.

Well, there's something coming your way too. But I'm not going to reveal anything because I feel like I'm going to give it away. But it is also digital. Okay. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, then this is the last gift because there had to be. I can't just do one gift.

So it was supposed to be a much better gift. And Eva knows about it because I called her frantically about it. Right. So don't ask me how, but I got Farmer Bob's phone number. Ah! And. Stop. I'm hyperventilating right now just thinking about it.

Are you serious? Yeah. So I have spoken to Farmer Bob. And so here was what the original plan was, right? Amethy. I was going to call Farmer Bob and record our conversation. I was going to ask him if he had any ghost stories. And for the 200th episode, I was going to read the ghost stories of farmer bob to just do a full circle of 200 episodes for anyone

who knows christine and i became friends on a tractor ride in 2016 and the tractor driver happened to be named farmer bob and that was where we learned that we both like true crime and ghosts on said tractor and that was was, by the way, so we all have a lot of wonderful skills. And amongst the, and that's why we drink family, Christine is known as like the internet sleuth. If you give Christine, if you give Christine like someone's eye color, she will learn everything about that person.

And I was like, you know what? I'm going to pull Christine. I'm going to figure it out. And all I had to go off of was his name is Farmer Bob. But I figured it out and I got his phone number. Oh my God, I'm so proud of you. I was a mess when I called him. First of all, I got his phone number.

And then because I got it so close to us recording this and I needed the recording, like a crazy person, I was calling him a bunch of times and he didn't know who I was I was just calling this number frantically I my phone anxiety is giving me like again hives hives but then uh and then I I was stupid I didn't leave a voicemail and what I know I will because I was panicking I was like how what first okay Christine you tell me what you would have said on that voicemail i would have written it down and spent six hours script like i do for every when i call my doctor i write down what i'm gonna say like that's how bad my anxiety is well allison was

like batman is never going to call you if he thinks you're like spam or something like you have to leave a voicemail so i like after the 20th phone call i left a voicemail and i was frantic i i mean i didn't know what i was doing first of all i'm pretty sure i called him farmer bob on the voicemail wait you mean his voicemail wasn't you've reached farmer bob and then it ended with a yeehaw uh i think in the i blacked it out but i'm pretty sure in the voicemail wasn't you've reached farmer pop and then it ended with a yeehaw uh i think in the i blacked it out but i'm pretty sure in the voicemail i went hi um you don't know me this is very random but in 2016 you were my tractor driver at a harvest festival and i've been trying to find you for three years thinking about you every day my god i i tried to like explain i tried so hard but in like

the length of what a voicemail allows oh god i was just like this makes no sense to you but i host a podcast and it's like gone really really well and it wouldn't have happened if my friend and i hadn't like really met on your tractor ride and you've become this kind of lore in our lives and we've always wondered you know where Farmer Bob was so we want to know all about you so I like got really panicky and uh when I hung up I looked at Allison I was like that man is never gonna fucking call me why would he no sane man I feel like if we were in the world of like landlines she would have unplugged the landline like five seconds and been like i'm sorry i had to cut you off well then i i was like okay well that was a bust like i've just signed my death warrant on that relationship and then like uh five minutes later farmer bob calls

me no and i was like holy shit allison was right that was the name of the game here because like the second I threw out a voicemail he showed up I can't believe you didn't okay anyway go on he answered and thank god he's probably also a little insane like us because he seemed very jovial uh he seemed lovely and uh I did I think he also for as confused as a man would be with a phone call like that, he came off as very kind. And like, I was trying so hard to like reiterate now that I had more time than a voicemail. I was trying to tell him what had happened. And I was like, I know I already talked about this on the voicemail, but like, you were our tractor driver. And I know this is really

wild. He's like, yeah, that much i've gathered and i was like i don't think you realize it but like you kind of have a fan base like i've i've gotten messages from people before saying like if it weren't former bob like none of us would have this show and so like we if we just always wanted to find you and at least say thank you and uh so i thanked him probably too much and he was very appreciative and uh and then i said you know we even the year after the show came out we tried to go back to the festival and get a tractor ride from you and he said oh well i i only 2016 i was the last time i did it and then i actually went back this year so i'm going to start trying to do it again and i said 2021 farmer bob i'm going to see you

and we want to shake your hand and say thank you and get a picture with you and i did ask him if at any point if he would want to either be on the show or be willing to like answer some questions for us um and he he did say if if you ever call again i'll definitely answer and he was very very kind and uh he didn't have any spooky stories which i was disappointed by but also i told that to allison and she was like well did you ask anything else like did he have any like true crime experiences or what's his favorite cryptid and i was like i just started talking to this man i was like i literally like what do you do when you pick up a phone and someone says you were my tractor driver three years ago i I can't get you off of my mind.

People love you and you don't know it. Who's your favorite cryptid? Also, I'm not weird. How do you feel about the totsle worm? Anyway, I am going to try to call him again sometime this week and hopefully get an email address from him because I would love to send him.

Oh my God, that's so exciting. I'd like to send him a link to this podcast that he'll probably never listen to. But I want him to send him exciting. I'd like to send them a link to this podcast that he'll probably never listen to. But I want him to feel included. And if I do get his email address, hopefully we can do some sort of Farmer Bob present that includes everyone like doing shout outs for Farmer Bob or something. I know I had to bring it there. Well, Farmer Bob, if you're listening, I hope it's okay that we call you Farmer Bob. First of all, we invented that name, to be clear.

I hope it's okay that we call you Farmer Bob first of all because we invented that name to be clear and second of all thank you so much for giving us like a life changing tractor ride Christine I I'm going to end it on this note the thing I told Allison and the thing I told Eva and the thing that made me lose so much sleep last night is

I remember on the phone call I kept calling him Farmer Bob and like to a point where in my head I remember thinking you calling him Farmer Bob. And like, to a point where in my head, I remember thinking, you're saying Farmer Bob a lot. And he's probably like, that's really not my name. And I was like, I gotta wrap this up. And so I ended the phone call before I could say Farmer Bob a thousandth time. But he at least, you know what, he's a dude who ran with the punches. He seemed receptive to it.

He did. So Farmer Bob, we welcome you. We embrace you. And thank you for 200 episodes. Thank you for being unknowingly part of our family. And that's why we drink family. He's probably filling out a restraining order right now on us. Yes, correct.

You're going to come home to police presence at your home. Exactly. Wow. Well, thank you. And that's, that's just such a thoughtful and I mean, as someone with phone anxiety, that's like the boldest thing I've ever heard of. It's a true gift from me. Yeah, it is. I could never do something like that. So I really do thank you. So I guess we should announce what we're doing

for our 200th episode. Oh my god, welcome to a half an hour later. Did you miss this? Did you miss this this is how this is going to be just like our first episode where it's eight hours long um our first episode was actually pretty short because we didn't know how to do research yet so we had very minimal stories um but we uh we decided uh what we're gonna do for our 200th is we're gonna revisit episode one and redo our stories with current research methods abilities current uh internet access we've had 200 times to practice researching so this is i do want to say before we get into it i did bring with me my original notes that were i remember them on a legal pad they were handwritten and uh just so

we know i usually have a lot more to say wow look at that it is the most chicken scratch i've ever seen in my life but if you can see it at all i don't know what i remember you left it on the tape i can't see it but i remember what it looks like the date says uh February 4th I wrote these wow February 4th okay so I remember that uh you left those on my table and I said what am I supposed to do with this and you said throw them away and I went I'm not throwing them away and so I put them in my filing cabinet for like years I had my filing cabinet um and then there were a couple more i had i had like six sets of your notes because you would hand write them all and i couldn't bring myself to throw them away so i was like there's no other copy well if it weren't for

you um this wouldn't be possible so i don't have my first notes but that's probably for the best well you know what else you did keep which i found with this because this was all at the apartment so i just ran over and grabbed it this morning but um so our original notes and uh without showing your old um address this is our receipt to our first audio equipment yes i kept that too i forgot about that when we uh spent literally every single dollar we had combined. Because I was like, I might need to call my parents and be like, I did this thing and I have zero dollars. I need help. So that's why I saved that receipt.

This is where we show the picture of my screenshot for my Venmo to you. Yes. Oh, good idea. And remember, episode one, this show was actually called Eerie in Theory for a hot second. It was called Eerie in Theory. Also, it's so funny. We called it, and that's why we drink, and it was about how we disappointed our parents that week, which still that hasn't changed.

So I don't know who has listened to episode one recently, or if ever, if you're listening backwards and you're very confused. But I listened to it. First of all, my notes are that it was terrible audio which i remember being so upset about at the time but i was like well we're not redoing it so it was terrible audio for for a first podcast episode it was better bad audio than some other podcasts yeah that's true i was like tweaking it too much and then it got out of control um also i misgendered you so that's fun so if you didn't know for the record, let's say it wasn't like I had.

Yeah, I wasn't intentional, obviously. But before anyone writes in and tries to get protective, I appreciate you. But Christine had no fucking clue. I was like, do you want to be called Emily? And you're like, um, no. That much I knew. Yeah, that part was clear. So I apologize for that.

That was cringy um i just was so i was using my like really nervous stage voice and i was like oh my god i'm listening to this like i'm taking this so seriously and i was so nervous and we were just like i don't know it was just so fun to listen to our first ever episode we were uh we were trying our best which i appreciate and like yes for someone who had 1,000% performance anxiety, or both of us, we did a pretty good job, apparently. We were so scared. I remember shaking.

I was like, and we were just in my living room. It's not like we were doing this in front of anybody, but I was so scared. Let's read the original little prompt in our show notes for episode one it was called francis ford cupola 200 episodes later i still don't know how to say it i think it's francis ford cupola okay and the off-brand kool-aid and it was released february 9th 2017 and here is the prompt i wrote it in my handy dandy phone book okay uh get your wine and milkshakes ready good writing christine thank you it's time for the first episode of and that's why we drink m tells christine all about one of the most haunted places in america the winchester mystery house

christine tells m about the most famous mass suicide in history yay though the flavor of the kool-aid is still up for debate thanks so much for joining us if you like this episode please take a moment to write and subscribe hashtag and that's why we drink love putting hashtags in our show notes that's sensible um well i also thought found something very interesting which was that we immediately came up with a celebrity nickname creme which uh by the way later we were to birth a child named cremette is that not the weirdest thing in the world it is weird cremette and uh i was like wow we didn't even think and you said like crime which i thought was funny but we didn't even think of like creme de la creme

like there were so many things we could have done with that like we should have should have thought of cremette cremette is way better yeah so uh i was just very impressed and you brought up lemons in the first episode i was gonna say which a lot of people still say yeah yeah that was making lemonade out of lemons or something it was my lemonade it was my own um future self kicking myself all right it was somehow there was something uh celestial about that i think it was me coming back and just whispering in your ear like talk about lemons you'll understand later um but yeah and then uh really quick just to give people um uh i just wanted to tell people what was also happening in the world real quick

uh tiktok uh had only been released five months ago and it wasn't worldwide yet so you probably hadn't heard of it i can't believe tiktok existed back then me either i feel like i just discovered twitter back then yeah also uh la saw the women's march after trump's inauguration and it was yeah i remember that day it was the largest single day protest in uh u.s history at the time now does anyone understand now the context of our podcast like this is what my depression this is where i was in the lowest part of my life. And Em was like, do you want to start a podcast? And I was like, no.

And then Blaze said, you need a hobby. Because I was just moping around. Because two weeks before our podcast, Trump became president for the first time. Yeah, and I was like, I'm not ever leaving my bed again. And that's why we fucking drank. And then also, we are older. Our show is older than the Nintendointendo switch and we're only four years younger than zach bagel bites's haunted museum that's wild it's like it's like the the ghosts

had something in store for all of us they were they were also manifesting anyway uh yes so i just wanted to put everybody back to a a time before 2020 if you don't mind i was gonna say a simpler time but i'm like it wasn't though like if you think about it it really wasn't it wasn't much simpler it was less complex but it was still slightly a fucking nightmare it was like it was still on fire it wasn't totally a dumpster fire it was like the match had been lit in the dumpster and we didn't know what was happening yet and we were kind of closing our eyes and pretending we didn't see it. But here it is. So my favorite part of episode one was why we were drinking that week. Yours was because you had an improv show and it was scaring you that you were going to

have to be on stage, which is now comical. Yeah, right. And I think I don't know if you mentioned it in the show anymore, or maybe you said it at the time after we recorded. But that was the first time I ever heard of propranolol. And I went, oh, yeah, I was you were like, how do you do it? I was like, this is the only way I can function. You again, that was just like so foreshadowing. And then I was drinking because I lost my credit card.

And my mom was currently helping me survive until I was able to get money back in my name. And I remember being like, I remember thinking, it doesn't even matter that I don't have my credit card because I just spent every last dollar I have on this fucking recording equipment. So. Oh, right. We don't have money anyway. Right. But also, I love that you are, weren't you moving?

You were moving. I was moving in with RJ for the first time I think I was moving in with RJ oh that's right and you had a roommate who I lived in Glendale and I was renting a room out of a townhouse and he was never around so it was like a pretty swanky deal for me because I lived in arguably a very very fancy space and on a very um desirable location and he was never home so i just had like a two-bedroom townhouse to myself but also it was super expensive and i had no money as i just said so um rj was like i have a really really cheap room for you and i went great you're my new roommate for the rest of my life so yeah that's why i was drinking that's so cool guys anyway

should we get into it yeah i'm excited i'm gonna pour my my oh i'm gonna pour my box wine oh excellent i love watching you struggle i like that just like in episode one you can just hear it uh in the background like a asmr asmr also i i wore and then that's why we drink sweatshirt and i'm drinking out of and that's why i drink glass it's like an homage to something we never thought would happen that we had our own merch i'm wearing a boston sweatshirt for us and the my iss hat because that's where i was working when we started i surprisingly don't have any bu merch i had like one shirt and that's it so i have one of your shirts that's the shirt i had and then you took it so anyway that's kind of romantic on its own so uh here is uh my story uh the winchester mystery

house 2.0 um so as you remember from episode one uh or maybe you don't, I don't know. I remembered it. But I think the reason I picked this story originally was because it starts in Boston and ends in California. Right. Just like you and me. So the year is 1862, a much simpler time. And it's actually starting in New Haven, Connecticut first.

So hang in there. There was a guy named William Wirt Westchester, three Ws, and he married Sarah Lockwood Party, and they soon started building their home. Sarah Lockwood Party becomes Sarah Winchester, the main character of this story. And William was the son of Oliver Westchester, who manufactured the, he was part of the manufacturing for Winchester Rifle Company. Right. And so Sarah married into this family. um he was really important for the company because he reorganized it and he also helped manufacture this very specific rifle that was like the first ever repeating rifle which i'm

not sure what that means because i am not really a gun fan but um oh you're not apparently all after all this time we're still learning things apparently all of the soldiers from the civil war really dug it so uh okay it became like the gun to have or the rifle to have and uh so they ended up making this huge fortune and like the company like just exploded because not literally because of the guns or anything but like it like financially it was doing very well um because it was like right right after uh or during the civil war and right after the civil war was when it really got big so um so sarah before she married she was a socialite and she was known as the bell of new haven um this is a quote about her by the age of 12 sarah was already fluent in latin french spanish Italian. Okay, you're not special. Me too.

Same. Furthermore, her knowledge of the classics, notably Homer and Shakespeare, along with her remarkable talent as a musician for playing three instruments, was well noticed. Jesus. Okay. So, like, by the time she was in seventh grade, she, like, ran the world.

She would have been a TikTok star for sure. Oh, my God. Yes. She would have gone viral. Like, she would have been on Ellen. Let's put it that way. She would have been a tiktok star for sure oh my god yes she would have gone viral like she would have been on ellen let's put it that way she would have been on ellen she yeah she would have done like the little press circuit um yeah yeah for sure speaking all of her languages uh for sure in 1866 uh sarah and uh william had a daughter named anne um only five and a half weeks later though she died from a disease called, I think it's pronounced marasmus. And it's basically like, I guess her body had this issue where it couldn't metabolize protein. And so she ends up just being like wildly malnourished.

Oh, no. So she passed away and then they never had kids after that. That's so sad obviously after five and a half weeks and then your your baby passes um she went into like a wild depression um and then in 1881 both william and oliver um they or i think it was will, Oliver, and her own father all died, like all back to back. Oh. Yikes. And so, or at least like within a few months of each other.

I know William died of tuberculosis and then the father died from unknown. Fun fact. From unknown. From unknown. Okay, got it. Cool. So tuberculosis slash consumption and unknown. unknown um so tuberculosis slash consumption and unknown and uh so when william and oliver both die they like left everything to sarah in the will and so uh she basically inherited all 300 of their

shares in stock and she ended up accumulating or uh being in she ended up inheriting almost 50 of the company um and this was in 1881 and income tax didn't become a thing until 1913 so she so none of that money was taxable um so she basically was handed 20 million dollars which in today's world is 540 million dollars casual actually real fun fact when i first did this episode the number was like 510 but since yeah i remember it was lower yeah so now it's five 540 million also like imagine first of all getting 500 million dollars or 540 million dollars but i'll try and then find out like oh that's not all she because she also uh with this will she earned a daily income of a thousand dollars a day from the company which in today's world was is over 25 000 i don't even know what that means like i can't comprehend that with my brain imagine being told

oh you're you're gonna get 25 grand every single day for the rest of your life until you die also let's just add an extra 540 mil just as a backup plan just in case in case you blow through it so it's like tough life um so she was really struggling obviously financially um she just couldn't spend the money fast enough so what a problem to have what a problem but so even despite all this money she's still in this wild depression everyone that she loves has died around her and she's starting to think that this isn't just a coincidence so keep in mind that this was right after the civil war aka the first rise in spiritualism because right everyone's husbands brothers sons friends all died in the war and so now all of these women back home and children back home are really getting into the idea of

the afterlife and then after uh one of the world wars i think world war one yeah after i forget which one after the world war there's a res one yeah after i forget which one after the world war there's a resurgence later in spiritualism um i see which was uh i think like the houdini era so uh so she thinks like maybe it's not a coincidence that everyone died around me and so she goes to boston um because apparently over there is like this like very well-known medium his name is Adam Koons and he is known at least in Boston as the Boston medium and I remember that I remember commenting how original that name was I still stand by that comment well and I I remember saying in the first episode I was like maybe in the 1880s like he was the only medium in Boston so like you just got that title

yeah so it can make sense I don't know otherwise I mean like today I'm the I don't know what am I I'm the LA you're the Burbank fish flopper look I couldn't I couldn't come in today without representing so I mean you could have, but you didn't. Finn and Gil are my support system today. Moral support. So, yeah. So she goes to arguably the only medium around. And basically, the Boston medium says, you're right.

This is not a coincidence. Your family's cursed. And you are being haunted by the spirits of all the people who have died by winchester rifles oh dear including every single civil war soldier because it was the most popular gun so like everyone in the war in like if you stretch it like all the violence all the violence of the war is your fault every person who died in the civil war is your fault also any indigenous people anyone who just happens to own one of your rifles and killed someone um so my god it's all bad so uh this medium says to appease the spirits and for them to uh forgive you or to at least leave you alone

you need to move west and you need to build a house for them in honor of them. But construction must never stop. And if it does stop ever, you will die next. Which is a specific demand. It's such a ridiculous. I'm sorry. And I remember we talked about it. And I was like, wait, what? Because, I mean, now I know the story more.

But it's just so absurd. Because you'd think, what does he get out of that? It's like, did his whole family also die by a Winchesteruster rifle and he just wants to throw you on this goose chase or but what you'd think is that like what he would get out of it is like keep coming back to see me and i'll tell you all the ways that you can you know what i mean like yeah he could make money off it but no instead he's like drive across the country and build a house and i'll never see you again it's just so odd to me i think he was just like i don't have to have to see that woman again and i'll know for the rest of her day she's gonna suffer like okay that's fair maybe that's what he was going with satisfaction enough or maybe he's

really good at his job and the ghosts are way too real right maybe that's like literally what they want it i guess um so uh some people doubt that this is the reason why. Some people think that this is just lore and not a real reason why she built this house or why it was always under construction. They think that her saying, oh, because I feel bad for all of the victims by my rifle. They think that's kind of a bunch of phooey because some historians are like like if she felt that bad profiting off of their deaths then why did she never like pull out on any of her investments or any of her stocks it's like i get it's like i get it that's a fair argument but then a lot of people also say that uh that's also not true so i there's kind of a who's to say what's what. But a lot of people try to dismiss this rumor. Okay.

But anyway, regardless, she moved to San Jose. And she said that she moved there specifically because her sister was moving out there. But a lot of, even though that's what is on official documents, people are like, she didn't really like her sister. So I think that might have just been her way of covering up that she was moving west at all like oh i have i should move to a place where i know people to cover up why i'm really going yeah like don't worry about it i promise there's a normal reason for this uh and so there's a quote actually about her sister isabel um that says isabel was her polar opposite outspoken and spunky when she was 74 she beat up

a man on a trolley after a political dispute i love that lady sounds like sarah went one way and this girl went the other it's not like sarah was like the posh uh educated uh socialite who like attended all the events and this girl's just hanging out on the trolley beating people up which i kind of want to hang out with her more yeah i like both of them um so in 1884 sarah bought a farmhouse which ends up becoming the winchester mystery house but at the time it was a simple eight bedroom house you know sure sure sure sure sure and started construction immediately um and this was in 1884 i was curious what else was out there in 1884 just to bring you back to the simpler time so it's easier to swallow um so here are some other things that

happened in 1884 the washington monument had been finished uh evaporated milk and kellogg's cereal had been patented tiktok was invented it's it was in beta though so like no one's right right right right um but it is fun to think like oh she could have been eating some corn flakes and how weird is that yeah uh the hip new thing the hip new thing also the 40 hour work week was instated which like don't get me fucking started oh god what a horrible invention and uh she was like not for me bitch like no but for all the employees who are going to be building my stairs i guess she was like that sounds terrible um and then my favorite part because it's uh kind of a little connection to us is that in 1884 was the first ever long distance call and it was from boston oh my gosh went to new york so it wasn't too fun but um but

yeah and then also uh another not fun fact um since the deaths uh when ever since sarah moved into this house and then until the end of her days she was always in a black dress so a lot of people said she was just like constantly in mourning um okay so a lot of the people who say if they see a ghost she's in a black dress um so after buying the house she originally had an architect and then she fired him immediately and started designing the house by herself and uh i think one she was bored and it was like i have all the money in the world to do whatever i want but also a lot of people say say that because her dad was in construction, she probably knew a little something and felt like the architect was holding her back

from a really like weird looking house. Yeah, he was probably like, I don't know why you want to build these stairs. And she's like, it doesn't matter why. Just do it. They go nowhere. Just do it. Here's a million dollars. Do it.

In 1888, so only four years into her having the house, Sarah's niece niece who apparently was nicknamed daisy um her real name was marion marriott which like okay like you're bragging and you sure sure calm down um so her niece moved in and ended up staying with her for 15 years and became her assistant in the house so probably helps her with a lot of the construction plans yeah um and some historians say that uh even though people say like or even though the medium said construction can never stop you have to keep building keep building your building apparently historians also like to try to dispute this and say she was known for regularly dismissing her workers for months at a time but then other historians have come back and been like yeah she was rotating the

workers like like nobody was staying on all the time sure that makes sense can't work 24 7 right you can work 40 hours though um but uh so yeah a lot of people get um weird about that statement too but i like to uh fly under the belief that it was she was just uh building the house non-stop yeah um so paranoid about the spirits finding her in the house she decided to build essentially whatever the fuck she wanted and she started building some of the most bizarre things in the whole wide world in hopes that the house would be so complex that she would trick the ghosts into never finding her yeah um the house okay originally was eight bedrooms and it was on six acres but by the time construction ended when she passed away the house itself was six acres oh my god um it had uh seven floors it had at depending on the

time it had five to six hundred rooms that were built at different times uh it has 20 000 gallons of paint it had 10 000 windows 2 000 doors 52 skylights 47 fireplaces 40 bedrooms 40 staircases 13 bathrooms six kitchens three elevators two basements only two mirrors and one and one shower you'd think like with all that the two mirror like there'd be more mirrors to confuse everything you know like i just feel like that adds to the whole fun house effect she'd clearly never been to a mirror maze because she would have gone real fucking weird with that she'd been like i want this whole room to just be a complete mess i think that's a great idea so the two mirrors apparently she thought that ghosts were um actually you're right because apparently she thought ghosts were afraid of their reflection so then you think the whole

place would be mirrors yes i think that would make a whole lot of sense i mean as far as sense goes in this story i think it would make maybe she just couldn't look at herself she was like what are you doing she's like well i only have one shower so it's hard for me to really take myself seriously my favorite fun fact about the shower is that i mean everything was obviously custom made in this house but the shower was made for her so it would hit her exactly from the neck down. So she wouldn't like get water in her face. And it would, she had one of those like really swanky showers that are still swanky where like the water shooting from different angles. Yeah.

But it all hit her exactly neck down. Whoa, that's fancy. But imagine being a guest in her house because she was 4'10". So like hits your belly button down. So you're, like, crouching in there. I'm sitting on the floor, actually. So, anyway, there, I know I said there were 13 bathrooms, but I'm also going to take this moment to have us really appreciate the number 13. Right.

Because Sarah was obsessed with the number 13. If she wasn't, then this is a really weird coincidence, at least. Right. Because a lot of the house's features had to do with the number 13. Which isn't like a normal feature in a house. No. Like, things are usually even numbers. I think staircases are usually 13 steps or something like that but that's the only one i can think of

right like lamps and things aren't usually well odd numbers one of them like chandeliers usually come as a dozen or at least at that time they came as a dozen she had to have um like welders come in and install a third light bulb for her chandelier. So like, so then she must have been doing this on purpose, right? Right. I just like convinced myself, I'm a lawyer. Wow. Well, okay.

But I will say from the first episode, I remember being like, how could they say otherwise? And then you mentioned like some people think that once she died, people, her family or whoever went in there and added a bunch of stuff to make it seem weird make it more attraction like i remember you mentioned that yeah it seems ridiculously excessive it does but then i think like if you died i would for sure make a spectacle of it if i could find a way to i would make you look like the craziest person i i mean like you know how they say like a true friend will like when they find out you're dead the first thing they'll do is like erase your browser history i will erase yours and only put the weirdest shit yeah you will add to mine i'll make it worse like you'll wish people saw your real one you'll make mine public and then right i'll be my instagram post you'll be

like we'll always miss her mind and it'll just be a picture of your browser. It's like a screen recording of scrolling through all my shit. Yeah. Thanks a lot. So you're welcome in advance. Hopefully I go first so we don't have to do that. Although seriously, if I go first, I give you permission. And honestly, my ghost would find it hysterical if you made a post like that on Instagram.

I think I would have a great time. Just saying. Okay. So anyway, yes yes so the number 13 um so there are a lot of features in this house that had to do with the number 13 and here are just some of them the entrance hall was divided into 13 sections all of the stairs had 13 steps which i think is uh actually I got to go count my stairs. I have no clue. Maybe not. Maybe not at the time. I just know like in, the only reason I know that is my stepmom

used to work in construction. That was like the only fun fact I ever retained. That is a fun fact. Let me see. Oh, the stairs had 13 steps. Windows had 13 window panes. There were 13 walls per room. In the 13th bathroom, there were 13 windows that each had 13 panes to it.

And they each had 13 candles. Also, every banister had 13 railings. The elevators had 13 panels. The greenhouse had 13 glass copulas. There were 13 holes in all of her drains she had them custom drilled out oh god uh she had 13 tiles on each ceiling she had 13 bulbs on each chandelier um and the seance room which is a thing uh she had 13 hooks for the 13 robes that she would wear for every 13 seances that she had with the ghosts.

And when she died, this is the weirdest part. When she died, she had 13 sections to her will and she signed it 13 times. This is just, I mean, you can't say that this is a coincidence, you know? Yeah. And if she really signed it 13 times, then that makes me think her family didn't go out and change everything up because like she was already onto something. Also to add new window panes to everyone, like that's, nope, who, why?

So I have seen the house and I think this is a collection of over time because there are some rooms that are just normal, like four walled rooms and things like that. But I think throughout construction, these were requests that had to do with 13 and then maybe they got demolished and rebuilt into something else. But that was at least a list of the times where she

made things specifically 13 i see um so we don't really know why but there is really there's one really interesting theory which i like to think was exactly why she did this but it's who knows at all it's just the theory i like to latch on to um so in some cultures 13 uh means femininity and uh it corresponds they they think it means femininity because it corresponds to how many lunar cycles aka menstrual cycles lunacy right all the lunatic women yeah well she was doing a little lunacy in this house the house itself was listen i get it lady a little lunar um but uh like a loony wait a minute oh lunatic i already knew that okay um it's like where are we going with this

never mind i already knew that information um but uh so so they thought that it uh meant femininity because it had to do with you have 13 cycles a year because 28 every 28 days oh yeah every 28 times 13 is like i think exactly 365 or just off so um they think that it means femininity. And as the solar cycle, AKA masculinity, as it slowly takes over the lunar cycle, each year, femininity becomes weaker, AKA 13 becomes an unlucky number. Oh,

that makes sense. So like, as the, as the year goes on in the solar cycle, I don't know enough about cycles, but apparently at some point the solar cycle equals masculinity. The lunar cycle equals femininity and masculinity starts taking over the lunar cycle i had no idea about any of this so it's just like a fuck the patriarchy moment and i like to think

that she's just like claiming her femininity throughout this house embracing the unluckiness yeah she's like i'll show you men here's all my femininity all over the walls and she's like in 13 different robes and they're like okay i guess we get it you are quite a lady we got it um so anyway back to this wild house the room uh the front room of the house has two doors side by side um but one of them is shorter and they think it's because she was 410 but that also makes like no sense like why would she make the bigger door then yeah that's weird unless she just has really tall friends over she's like you can't use my door you have to use this door it's like i'm thinking of you here's another door that you can go through um there was uh let's see there was also a hidden room which the only thing in there was an old victorian couch and an antique doll yeah i hate that part love that part hate it um and here i'm gonna just say

some of the wild things that i have also personally seen in this house um and this is more or less verbatim from the first episode but it's it still reigns true so here are just some of the um bizarre things in this house there are trap doors and false passageways there are stairs that lead to the ceiling there are stairs that lead to uh walls just random walls there are doors that open into walls there's windows in the middle of the room just like standalone sills that you can like walk around 360 so there's no reason for it to be there um oh man where was i oh windows that would look out into absolutely nothing or they would even like look out into like another part of the construction like um like you would look out the window and there would be like a chimney right in front of you so like you couldn't actually see

outside okay um there would be uh windows in front of front of you. So like you couldn't actually see outside. Okay. There would be windows in front of the elevator shaft. So there's one window that's basically like a picture frame in the wall. And it's just like a clear, instead of wall, it's clear. And you can see like the backside of an elevator. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I thought that was actually kind of dope. Just like. There's one of my favorites is a skylight in the floor there are skylights between different floors some of the posts um in this uh

house are upside down uh and some of them just jut out in the middle of the floor for no reason at all there's just like random posts that will stick out sideways from a wall it seems like such a tripping hazard i would injure myself every day if I lived here. It was absolutely a fire hazard, this place. Let's see. There were also chimneys that were so tall that they would go through four floors. And there were also chimneys that were so short that you could see between the chimney and the ceiling. Like it never got completed.

So it was like basically rendered useless. Yeah. And there was, I think there was one chimney that goes like up through a bunch of floors. And then when you get to the top floor to see the chimney continue, it like doesn't actually hit a ceiling. So it's like, it's just this ruse. That's like the ultimate fire hazard. Like a literal fire hazard.

Someone on like floor one is going to be like, why is the smoke coming into this room? Oh my God. There's also a room that has, this is actually the seance room. It has one entrance but three exits. So you can walk in through one door, but two of the doors that you can leave out of don't have handles on the other side. So if you walk into the next space and then close the door behind you, there's no reopening it to get back in. And one of those rooms brings you into the closet of another room. So it's almost like a Narnia situation.

Yeah. Talk about a magic trick, though. You could just like show up in a closet. That's pretty cool for a seance room, especially. You could do all sorts of fun tricks. That's actually pretty genius. Yeah. And then my personal favorites.

Oh, also there are, there's a cabinet door that opens to a hive of 30 other rooms. So like, Oh, you just open a cabinet and then you're like in a whole other world. And my personal favorites, some I just mentioned,

but I just want to shout them out again, the door to nowhere, where it's like on the second or third floor and you open it and they don't let people do this because you would die but like if you opened it it literally leads to it's the side of the house that you're opening up and you would just fall out that's so dangerous there's also staircases to nowhere there's a staircase that goes up to the ceiling which i mentioned but i remember when i did the tour myself you can climb up the stairs and like you slowly have to hunch until like your the ceiling is on you um so uh there are also cupboards i remember taking pictures of this because i was just so fucking floored

there are cupboards that make no sense there's like just one tall cupboard in the middle of the room like it's not attached it's not like cabinets it's just basically a box with a door that you can open but it's a cupboard that only is half an inch deep so like you can't put anything in there it's just basically a solid block in your way and she just had all this built like she just like could anything that she thought of she just she's like maybe the ghost will think i'm hiding in this cabinet like what and then there's a wall yeah I don't get it there was also another cupboard that opened into the other side of the house so like almost like broke through the wall and so if you opened if you open the cabinet from one side you would then look into like the other half of the house um so basically what I'm saying is like I want to get married in this place I was gonna say like this sounds like something we would want to build as our future talk about an event space yeah yeah um anyway so posts were upside

down the chimneys were installed but like weren't functional um there were switchback chairs which were uh so if you ever look it up it looks really like these really windy narrow stairs so you have to do like a bunch of essentially u-turns to like get up these stairs so there's like seven basically u-turns on this staircase it's a hundred feet long but it only trust me yeah it only brings you up nine feet to the second floor oh my god no that's awful so it's just this really long snaking staircase for no reason just to get you like basically nowhere oh no um and that it's because there were like 40 plus steps on this thing and they were two inches low two inches tall no no no no no so it was basically like you were

doing an incline the whole time but these were not the original steps those steps were replaced with these two inch ones called easy riders, which Sarah Winchester started putting throughout the entire house as she got older because she'd really bad arthritis. And so it was making it was a bunch of very tiny steps versus a short amount of tall steps. Got it. That way she could still walk around the house. She's like, I still want to wind through 100 feet of this but i just want easier steps i'll take my afternoon uh on a stroll up the stairs um and then there was um also the sprinkler system in this house ran seven miles throughout the house it was that windy um she had a garden room with

hoses and faucets in the cabinet so you didn't see them when they weren't being used and the wooden floors in the greenhouse or in this garden were made of pallets so you could lift them up and you could spray all of the flowers. And then the water would drip out onto just cement and the floor. That's so smart. And the floor was slanted so all of the water would drain off and you could just put the wood pallets back down. That's so smart. She was like, I mean, and you could just put the wood pallets back down that's so smart she was like i mean for a crazy person she was she's also a genius yeah i love this woman she also did that for all of her um for all of her countertops for like the kitchen and stuff she made them slightly slanted so with like divots in them so water would drip out into the sink instead of like so smart like sit

on the counter um there was also the halls of fire oh well okay let me take back what i just said and hold on to it for a minute until i hear what you're about to say it actually is also genius so it's actually this hall is actually a series of little rooms but they're all right next to each other and they're very small and it's called the hall of fires because it has seven sources of heat it had four fireplaces and three vents and so the room would get really really hot and she would go into this room when she had arthritis and she would just sit there and all of her joints would loosen that's nice that's comforting actually isn't a bad idea i love that she's like this is my nice cozy room

i'm gonna call it the hall of fire this is where i feel my my most sane that's like how i built this nice little or decorated the studio and just put skulls all over the wall. I'm like, this is my happy place. Amen. Yeah. We're no different. No, we're not. So the sinks and everything was obviously super expensive.

Everything was imported and hand painted from like Italy and Vienna and Japan and all that. She actually had one room called the $25,000 room because when she died, that room alone was valued at 25 grand, which in today's world is almost 400 grand. Whoa. Whoa. There was also the South Conservatory, which is next to, well,

I don't want to confuse anyone. There was the South Conservatory and it's the space with the most windows. I think this is the coolest room when I go. It's just like everything. It's like 150 plus panes of glass. One of them happens to be in the floor, and it's the famous skylight in the floor. Oh. So you can actually look down into other floors.

Cool. And also near this place with the most windows in the house was the most expensive window. It it's called the most expensive window. Um, which like says something if everything else in the house is so wildly expensive. Um, it was made of all these really tiny, tiny crystals. So they acted like prisms when the sun hit it and the whole room would become rainbows. Cool.

when the sun hit it and the whole room would become rainbows cool but she fucked up uh structurally twice because she put this window on the north side of the house where the sun never shined oh my gosh well that seems like a pretty basic fuck up well here's the next one that's even more basic she then where the sun would have come in from she added a whole wing of rooms so like no sun is ever coming through this thing that's depressing okay so no rainbows for you i guess it feels homophobic um but that's okay uh so then the the ballroom alone cost nine thousand dollars which was three times the amount of the average house back then oh god but what's really cool about it is the entire place is i mean so wildly intricate and like completely made of wood,

but barely any nails were used in the construction. All of it is wood and glue because apparently it's better for the acoustics because that's where she would play her organ and her instruments and stuff. Wow, that's weird. Also, what's weird that people, the last time I went on the tour,

they were like, we don't know what this fucking means, but we like to point it out. There's stained glass windows in the ballroom with an inscription on it and it says wide unclasp the tables of their thoughts these same thoughts people this little world what she was an alien i don't know hold on she was a black eyed child goose cam yeah that is like can i have ketchup with my apple also whatever you just said can you send me that later i want to like creep yeah look at it and drink wine and think about it just drink too much and then maybe i'll crack the code i might we have to call nicholas cage actually he might figure it out um so once the room had 20 once the house

had 26 rooms from its previous eight, rail cars- Which is double 13, by the way. Holy shit. Just saying. Ooh. Also just saying the seance room had one entrance and three exits. I don't know. 13's just in my brain now, I think.

It's because you're drinking. Keep going. Wait a minute. Yeah. It's this boxed wine. I can't believe. I haven't had it in months it's all coming back uh so once the once the house had 26 rooms rail cars actually had made

a stop that was closer to her house which meant more imported furnishings and materials could come in so the house started growing even faster than it was with the first 26 rooms. Oh boy. And the house, by the time that she died, the house was being promoted or marketed as the house with 148 rooms. But every time they would do a room count, people would get a different number. And eventually they were just like, fuck it.

And so it's widely just accepted that the number is probably 160. Oh, so they just kind of averaged it out. They were like, I guess it's around 160. So Sarah also had two conservatories built with these really wild watering systems and a garden. And she, which I already explained, sorry, I think I just put that twice. Also, in her seance room, she was the only one allowed in that room and she always held the only key for it oh creepy yeah and this is weird because it has so many exits and stuff why like if it's only her i don't know yeah like strange sometimes she just wanted to be in the

closet now that feels homophobic wait a minute did we figure it out my Oh, my God. You can't leave the closet. Oh, my God. Because the door only opens one way. Metaphor. Okay. Wow, so deep. So, fun fact about the seance room, because I always thought it was, like, a really spooky, eerie-looking room. It's actually a really pretty white and green color. Oh. So, it's not actually, like, dark and terrifying.

I thought it looked kind of like this setup here i thought i was thinking about robes and stuff it sounds very very ominous like freemasonry yeah yeah um but no it's just a white and green room it's got those three doors but it does i mean i'm literally in a white and green room and you're in a creepy uh dark room so maybe we're playing both sides of this thing here it's like she it's like she knew um the weird thing about this room the other weird thing about this room excuse me uh that there are some windows in there and only two of the sets of windows have spiked bars on them oh but the other windows are fine i don't understand okay i mean i guess this goes back to

her believing these ghosts are coming for her like she was probably like trapping them or something she was like i don't know if you hate glass or iron more but like here's some of both i don't know if you can go through closets we'll try everything maybe maybe you need to be in the closet yeah it's i never thought about that if that's the if only she was allowed in there then why it's just so odd all these different exits that's weird um so some of the this is where people think like people start asking well how was she coming up with these like um construction like ideas like these wild bizarre thoughts yeah so she i guess there's a few theories to like how she came up with these construction thoughts, but a lot of them are based around that the ghost suggested them to her, which is weird to me because I feel like either she was coming up with them to keep spirits out.

Right. Or like, because if they were suggesting them, then why were you taking the advice? If you were trying to hide from them. If you're trying to, maybe she was like you know double blinding them or something and like getting the information and then altering it in a way that like was different than what they were suggesting but there's also a really interesting theory from one tour guide who says that they the there were

good spirits helping her keep bad spirits away but these good spirits although they were trying to be really helpful because they were on a different realm they really don't have a proper understanding of our physical world and so they didn't really know what they were they didn't realize that like the wall can't go to nowhere it has to go somewhere because in a ghost's mind it's like well if the if the stairs lead to nothing i'll just walk through the wall it doesn't matter so like they were not thinking they're like the world like ghosts are the world's worst architects is what i'm right i get it i get it but they it was really like a five-year-old playing sims for the first time of like that makes sense there and that makes sense there and you should do this and she was

just listening so oh i love that idea i kind of love it too it's really adorable that they're trying to help but they're so bad at it um they're like wait you can't walk through this wall yeah what do you mean this isn't useful that's fun or i mean maybe she was trying to appease the ghosts like she's like okay what if i build whatever you want right maybe i don't know who's to say maybe the ghosts not me but um but so yes that's it's one of those theories in some way um so sarah would have uh seances uh and talk to all these ghosts about construction ideas and then the next morning she would come to the foreman each morning would have a completely different task for them so like even if they were how annoying if they were even halfway

through one thing she would just cancel and be like never mind i've decided i want this here or the ghost like i know she was paying them but like that just must be so infuriating where you're like i just put like so much sweat and energy into this project and now you're like take it all down i imagine being a construction worker like i don't know i'm in the world of entertainment but i like to think they'd want to build a portfolio of what they're capable of. And you just like never can build your resume because you're like constantly destroying things before it's finished. Well, you know what I remember in the first episode,

we, I think you commented like, Oh, this sounds like our jobs in entertainment. Yes. Truly TV studios being like, Oh, 12 hours,

12 to 14 hour days where they're like, do this for six hours. Nevermind. I hate it. You did it all wrong. Throw it away and start over. Like that's so true. I love that in today's world where I'm not like thinking about like movie stuff all the

time. I didn't think about that. But at the time when I was, I guarantee you when I said that it was because earlier that day someone had been like, I hate everything you've done. Start over. It was like so spot on. That was probably the day I was scraping lettuce off the floor after like buying lettuce for someone who decided they didn't want lettuce.

I don't think you've ever actually told that story on the show. But wow, you really had like the quintessential like Hollywood intern. If I'm giving scissor eggs, I have to say it was kale, not lettuce. Uh-huh. Yeah. I want to be clear that it was kale. Please tell that story real quick because it- Right now?

Yeah. Okay. 200th episode special. There was this producer who, by the way, I've heard through the grapevine, not saying names, that he has fallen from grace. Let's just put it that way. Wow. Shocker.

Yeah. So I was at a job and it was horrible and it was 12 to 14 hour days and I was making like minimum wage but like almost illegally like they stopped paying you at a certain number of hours it's always almost illegal yeah yeah right it's not technically legal uh there was no hr all that good stuff um and i would have to go get lunch for for the producers and i went and got lunch for this one guy who was very specific about his diet and he wanted extra lettuce in his salad which i was like i don't know what that means but he wanted extra lettuce in his kale salad so i was like okay so i went and got him extra lettuce in his kale

salad i did everything the way that it was written and i brought it to him and he literally he like looked at me and i had a master's degree i want to be clear like we were grown-ups like we were like children like 24 yeah and he just looks at me and he fucking dumps it on the floor and he's just like i don't even know at that point what he said because i think i just blacked it out but it was something like um he's like are you gonna pick that up or something yeah yeah there was so much lettuce in it and i was like oh i thought you wanted extra lettuce and he was like oh does it look like i want to eat like an entire bowl of lettuce and i was like i mean kind of but okay so i was like uh and then he literally just stares at me and i stared at him and he goes are you gonna pick

that up and i was like oh and so he just like walked around it left the room and i spent the afternoon because it was fucking he walked on top of it and so now this kale was just like walked around it left the room and i spent the afternoon because it was fucking he walked on top of it and so now this kale was just like smushed into the ground underneath the refrigerator i had to like get up and they didn't have any like i was like is there something i can use and someone's like there's plastic knives in the drawer so i'd use a plastic knife and just like scrape the fucking kale off the floor i was like this is what i'm getting paid for but basically i i was losing money with gas it was an hour and 40 minute drive one way and i had to drop geo off at daycare i was

losing money every day and i'm like what a waste of my life this is it really is like i mean i've had i i haven't had that exact experience but i've had some pretty darn close ones similar ones yeah um and uh yeah but they're what you see on tv about like interns just having the worst of it is very true it's true and i remember i sometimes tell that story and renee's like i always remember the time you texted me that you were eating lunch and i was like oh where like at a cool la restaurant and you were like oh no i'm in the parking lot and crying what do you mean in the parking lot and i was like well they told me i had to sit in the parking lot today and she was like why and i was like i have to watch out for like security concerns and she

was like well what are you sitting on and i was like the floor the ground and she was like they didn't give you a chair and i was like no the children's stars needed the chairs so they didn't have any left so i was literally just sitting in the fucking dirt eating my salad it was like the saddest thing the fucking worst i also there was one there was one movie i worked on and this was when i before i got the job at iss and i was working like on set and the child actor fucking hated me the child actors oh my god fucking hated me and because like everyone's terrified of like upsetting the kids because like you only have so much the thing you have so only have so much time legally to work with children yeah whatever the kid says you fucking do and so that kid fucking hated me and every time he was on set

the producers would be like don't even bother coming to set and i'm like but i'm needed on but like my my job was to hand him the props that he needed like i needed to literally be there so he could throw his truck or whatever in the fucking movie i had to give him the truck and they were like don't even bother and i was like legally i'm the only one who can do this and we need to have a child actor episode because i definitely think we could share stories we haven't shared before oh what a mess anyway anyway back to this nightmare um so yeah so she would wake up every day and go to the foreman and be like i need this done immediately so welcome to hollywood guy so anyway um and so

and she would just randomly i mean literally it was like i said this in the first episode too but it was like oh i want the walls red today and then like the next day she'd be like never mind paint everything blue i mean it's literally la i can't imagine um but uh also to confuse the ghosts even more she started sleeping in different rooms every night which like at least she's using every square that's true of this of this place that's true can you imagine having 40 bedrooms and not using them no uh i can't well i can't imagine the first half of that's the first part yeah um so in 1906 uh there was actually a really terrible earthquake it reached 8.3 on the richter scale and it severely damaged the house it also trapped sarah in one of the rooms

and the i guess the structure of the wall kind of leaned into the door so So it pinched the door shut and she couldn't get out. I mean, what did she think was going to happen? Again, fire hazard. With all these buildings. Yeah. Something was going to happen.

And her staff ended up using a crowbar to pry the door open. And you can still actually see the mark from where the crowbar got the door. No way. Super creepy. So so cool but after this earthquake a lot of the fourth floor had to be removed so now the um winchester mystery house is shorter than it used to be um still pretty fucking big though don't worry um and she basically she took this as a sign this earthquake and the house being damaged she took it as a sign that the spirits thought she was spending too much time decorating versus mourning and grieving the spirits.

Oh, dear. So she told the builders to seal up that whole section of the house. And actually, years, years later, they found a bunch of hidden rooms where she had asked them to seal it up. And they were like halfway through construction. So they're like kind of like the bones of the house which is cool creepy um she said seal up the section of the house and she ended up moving 30 minutes away so she didn't stay in the house anymore but she would still visit literally daily with the most ridiculous plans um so she uh was still there all the time she just didn't stay there anymore but fun fact she also had a house boat um on the san francisco bay and people called it sarah's ark like noah's ark i love that because

apparently on top of being paranoid about ghosts she had a regular fear of like a noah's ark sized flood coming so she had a houseboat and she needed to see a therapist. She did. Ironically, too, the boat caught on fire and was destroyed. No. Stop it. So she lived in this second home for 16 years, but she still literally every single day for 16 years came back, and she would make wild requests. Later in life, when she was suffering from arthritis,

she started most of her requests were just making the stairs shorter so she could still walk around in it. But in 1922, she was 83 years old. She had a seance and went back to bed. And that night she died in her sleep from heart failure. And she's buried in New Haven, Connecticut with her family. The construction ended immediately. Like, I remember this being my biggest takeaway from the tour um that i went

on uh that literally when the workers heard that she died they just walked away like there are still nails that are half nailed in because they were like oh she's dead i can finally stop they were like not even finishing this hammer motion. I don't even care anymore. Wow. They just walked away. Weirdly, there is weirdly, there's this like moon shaped hedge that actually points directly to the room

where she died. And so they've always left that hedge alone. And so they maintain that really well. And people say now there's like a lot of spiritual activity there where if you're standing there and you look up at the window, sometimes people see her. When she did uh die the house they valued the house officially as it was at five million dollars at the time or 71 million dollars today wow yikes holy shit um when she died her bank account obviously had depleted at least a little um i would think so yeah and

some people think that she actually hid her fortune in a safe so her family wouldn't try to come after her money. But her relatives, one of the things that I think I was trying to mention in the first episode but probably hadn't gotten this far in the research, her relatives did actually come to the house. So maybe that's where I thought that they were trying to alter things. Or maybe that's where the stories come from of like, well, the relatives were there. They could have fucked around with the house so maybe that's where i thought that they were trying to alter things or that's or maybe that's where the stories come from of like well the relatives were there they could have fucked around with the house but realistically they were there purely for the will and were breaking down walls trying to like find safes in the walls and like they were trying to and they found some of the safes one of the safes was in the ballroom and uh wild this should be a movie all of it should be a movie yeah

it actually is a movie we'll talk about that in a second oh okay um so uh they found one of the safes in her in the ballroom and she only had a few things in there there were like newspaper clippings and shit but the main things that she had in there which are noteworthy is she had um locks of hair that were her father and her daughters and their and their obituaries so like she had so that's precious but then the weird one is that with it was a a bunch of wool underwear oh i don't know why that was like whose was it i don't know why was that what she felt she must keep i hope it was clean i hope so too um so up until her death um the house had 18 servants 13 carpenters 8 to 10 gardeners two chauffeurs um and they were all very loyal to sarah so they um sarah spent a lot

of money to make sure that they had like perfect you know grade a amenities i mean i've i've done the i've seen the torrent scene like what their their like servants quarters were which usually i'm like yikes what a phrase yeah but like wow i wish i lived in that fucking space like it was they had they had offices they had these big ass rooms they had um she had custom made specific um like machinery and equipment so that their chores would be easier than the average person like she figured out what all the issues were with like how laundry was done at the time and how cooking was done at the time and so she made all of these basically inventions so that wow all of the hard parts of those jobs would be easier for the servants.

And she paid everyone double the average rate, including the construction workers. Wow. So they were very loyal to her. Some people could say, of course, she was being nice. She needed them to like help her keep the spirits away. And of course, they were loyal because she was paying them double the rate and treating them so well. Right. I mean, at least there's that but a lot of people think just throughout the years they just like all really loved each other and she treated them like family um and so uh the staff were so loyal that um for the whole time they worked there they never spoke to any journalists about

like her behaviors or her choices wow um they were just like we love sarah winchester like we're not saying anything so after her death all the furniture was removed it took eight truckloads a day every day for six and a half weeks which was almost 400 truckloads and movers told the press that they got lost in there so many times so it like made it even longer to actually get everything out of the house wow because they were getting on stairs thinking it led to downstairs but it led to upstairs and shit it was imagine um her niece inherited uh three thousand dollars uh or no yeah three thousand dollars and all of sarah's personal possessions but she also got a cushy two million dollar trust fund which in today's world is 31 million wow um the house was bought and turned into an attraction and a

landmark to the public after only five months of sarah being dead it was immediately an attraction five months wow like they the family decided immediately like oh we know what we're doing with this um and they actually i think they sold it to a tour company um fun fact the house was a major inspiration for the haunted house ride in disneyland oh another fun fact one of the one of the first people to see the place when it became an attraction was robert ripley of ripley's believe it or not oh my god and uh another fun fact is so it's called the winchester mystery house but guess who coined it that i don't know it's not you and it's not me

it's houdini houdini so he was also in 1924 he was one of i guess you know if we're since 2020 he's seen as one of the first people to visit the house and he called it is so cool the winchester mystery house oh thank god i caught on to what you were saying me too i was like i'm gonna real idiot i was like i'm gonna look real stupid in a second i think people if you go back on youtube you can see fear in my eyes building i was like oh my god please say it um so this house has been dubbed by uh a lot of people usa today time travel channel a bunch of them it's been dubbed as one of the top 10 most haunted houses in the country um there are no official documents of any paranormal experiences for sarah but i mean she had a fucking seance room um i'm gonna guess also hmm she literally was hiding from ghosts so

and like taking their blueprint advice exactly they were they were her architects so um i'm gonna say she did have some paranormal experiences safe to say um like you don't just go out and get 13 robes for no reason no i can certainly say with confidence you don't just go out and buy 13 robes 12 maybe 13 not a baker's dozen come on now so uh people who were who people who work there do report frequent paranormal activity including temporary blindness. Yikes. Oh, God.

I remember that. Can you imagine being blind in that fucking house? Temporarily. Good luck. Yes, temporarily. Can you imagine losing your vision and you're like- Like halfway up the stairs to nowhere. Yeah.

Imagine if all of a sudden I couldn't see and then I went, Christine, help me out of this house. And you're the worst person with directions so you know me I would go I say walk out this door and then you'd walk out of the third floor onto the onto the ground and as I as I fall to my death I would hear your echoing voice go I'm bad at directions your eyesight would come back halfway down and you would just see me going I would just see the impact no uh yeah so temporary blindness or if you're christine like just constant loss of where you are welcome to my life um and then icy chills people feel handprints on or they see handprints on their arms they also feel hands

stroking them and like rubbing their back sometimes um people hear organ music even though the organ that is in the house does not work if you press the buttons it won't play oh um even neighbors hear the organ playing apparently um people see moving lights they see red flashes in her room people hear doorsteps thumping voices and windows apparently bang so hard that they've shattered oh gosh um people have also seen a quote bushy haired woman standing out on one of the windows um on the second floor from the garden bushy haired woman is that her i guess i never heard about her hair i heard about everything else um people also see a small woman dressed in black near the picnic gardens um and one worker while he was on a ladder he said that he almost fell and he felt a hand push him back up wow well that's nice which is

precious and it also kind of confirms for me like her love for her workers yeah exactly um or she's like i'm the only ghost here now i don't't know. Don't you die on my property. Not here. Not now. So one of the guides, I mean, every guide there, or most of the guides there apparently have some sort of experience. But one guide in particular said that he went into the room where Sarah was trapped during the earthquake. And he heard a very loud sigh in the hallway and saw um something glide around the corner and heard another sigh but never found anyone arguably though like you could hide in a

lot of places in that house that's true um one of the winchester mystery house's like own pr coordinators said that when he was taking pictures he found a lot of weird stuff in them apparently on the winchester mystery house facebook people will post their own pictures like trying to see if like can you see anything in my pictures um in 1975 a paranormal investigator and reporters went into the seance room and they had a seance together and this is a quote from the reporter who said that uh they were looking at someone else in the seance room and saw their face, quote, age right in front of my eyes. Her hair grayed and she formed deep crease lines in her forehead.

She experienced staggering pain and was unable to walk. And right before she passed out, she screamed, help me. Someone get me out of here. Oh, God. Yeah, it got dark real quick. Yeah, that's not good. Employees also hear their names being called when they're closing up doors are always flying open if you close it and then walk away and come

back it's open people smell soup in the kitchen um okay i actually remember that from episode one i was i remember i listened to that i went wow we really didn't make a big deal of that but like in my mind that's a big deal i like i'm like why didn't we talk about that more like what kind of soup like is what kind of soup wasn't her favorite soup was i think we were trying to take ourselves so seriously that we were like okay we gotta we gotta stick to the subject meanwhile i'm sitting here and i'm like soup sounds pretty good right now oh my god uh so people also feel a hot spot where the stove used to be installed i love that i think that's super cool yeah um it's usually cold spots which i feel like is easy to explain is like a breeze or

whatever but a hot spot is like i would injure to me i would be interested to stand in that spot and see if i also got a cold spot because that's like a real fluctuation of temperature there oh like a ghost walking into the place where the oven was yeah like i'll stand here now i feel hot and then a ghost approaches me isn't that how tornadoes form though oh okay never mind never mind when i think i know tornadoes have like hailstones i'm not a meteorologist if you didn't you're not about me oh i know we're still learning things about each other still learning the more you don't love guns and i don't know anything about weather or directions i'm also a clown by the way i don't know if i've told you that yet but oh there's that fun fact when we get to five episodes and you'll know um so some of the tours

have actually found a like the chandeliers in each of the rooms swinging right when they're coming in it's almost like someone was greeting them into each room or like beating them to it like i like to thank the spirits for like hurry up like i'm already in here hello run run yeah so uh a lot of tour people will end up seeing chandeliers swinging as they're going through on the tour and one of the guard dogs which precious they have guard dogs he gets scared going down one of the hallways and he won't go down unless the guards shine a flashlight for him oh buddy um he's very brave everywhere else though he's a good boy what a good boy um one investigator said that the room felt

weird um and like had a really weird vibe so he tried to listen for any weird sounds and started hearing what sounded like screws being unscrewed like hearing them like come out of the wall and he was like that that's weird. But he like ignored it. And a couple minutes later, three screws fell from the ceiling. Oh, God, with the swinging chandeliers. That seems like a bad combination. It sounds like Final Destination. Wait a minute. A ghost was seen and later identified as one of the servants who used to fix the fireplace. Apparently, he's seen in the ballroom a lot trying to fix the fireplace now and people just know him as like the ghost worker but imagine that's

eternity for you you can just never fix the fireplace fixing a fireplace that probably also never worked to begin with because it isn't a working place to the floor three yeah because it goes to the elevator stupid um so uh the bell tower where sarah would call the servants in people still hear it ring at midnight and at 2 a.m which apparently those were the two times when she would ring the bell to release spirits from her seance room like she okay that was like part of her ritual where she would like close out she would ring the bell to like say goodbye to the spirits okay and so now at the same time that she used to, she would ring the bell to like say goodbye to the spirits. Okay. And so now at the same time that she used to do that,

people hear the bell ring. In the 2000s, they started a behind the scenes tour. So they were opening up the basement and other places that the normal tour didn't actually go. So this meant a lot of the staff had to stay extra hours and clean out all the spaces that they were going to be using and organize it. And so they hired on extra maintenance just to like get it done faster and everyone was noticing this one guy and he was

in like these white coveralls and he a lot of times was uh with a wheelbarrow and nobody knew who he was the like normal staff was like who is this guy the maintenance supervisor was like we didn't hire him i have no idea who this guy is we thought he was with you and they just like kept seeing this guy around until they got to the basement and started clearing it out and then they found this portrait of him from sarah winchester's time and and so now that picture hangs in the basement um so that's pretty terrifying did he just want a photo of himself hung up on the wall? Now he's like, okay, I'll leave you in peace now. Thank you for hanging my portrait.

Let me have my Insta moment. Thank you. Thank you. I'll catch you on TikTok in 2016. So the, in 20, actually in 2016, he was on TikTok. Oh my God. Oh my God also uh a previously

undiscovered attic space was found that's pretty terrifying i don't like that and in 2018 vanity fair said that there have been 12 million visitors since it opened and also in 2018 the movie winchester was released starring helen mirren right 14 on rotten tomatoes woof yeah um i also for a horror movie that's bad i did go see it in theaters with allison and i remember being like yikes this was i remember everybody tagging us in that on twitter i was also disappointed in that i mean first of all like i wanted something a little more accurate with like all the like the craziness to it like with this story i'm telling right now that could be a great movie a great film yeah and instead it was just one it was just helen muir running away from invisible things so and i'm like with helen muir and really like come on i know like come on someone i respect

too it's like what a shame so um in 2019 uh the winchester mystery house actually this is one of my favorite spookier ones um they hired an architectural historian to research who made the stained glass windows because they had never figured it out and this guy was like i'm not really sure but after my research i think it was this company called the pacific american decorative company i'm not sure but i think that's where my research is implying okay um and they were like all right well you know i wish we had some concrete evidence but whatever the next day after they were told that the very next day a restorer uh uncovered in the house a perfectly preserved envelope that was hidden inside a wall for 125 years and it was addressed to mrs s l

winchester and it had the logo pacific american decorative company so it was the company that he had just talked about and confirmed that they made the windows oh my god that's super bananas i'm just like that stuff fascinates me holy shit can you imagine finding something i know my favorite murder always talks about this but like finding shit in walls is so fascinating or like i love it preserved like documents oh my god i'm just mad it hasn't happened to me yet but maybe i don't want it but maybe i do i don't know what i want i've stuffed enough random shit into like newel posts and walls when and vents when i was little in different houses I lived in that like eventually someone will find it and be like, this is worthless.

But to me, I thought it was pretty cool. To you, it might have just, it might just be like a five-year-old left something in the wall. But like if I found anything in a wall, I would already decide the creepiest fucking story behind it. That's true. I wrote weird stories and put them in the newel posts of one of our old houses. And I'm like waiting for someone oh my god and it's like literally me as an eight-year-old

writing and drawing pictures so yeah it's probably pretty fucking creepy you know what's funny is i just i've seen it before but it just resurfaced there was this like tumblr post back in the day love it and uh it was saying like isn't it wild that, like, for years, like, decades, we had scientists trying to, like, figure out hieroglyphics and, like, figure out, like, what these, like, really, like, cryptic phrases could mean until we could, like, actually translate it finally. us people had like just said like the word penis or like like it's like these were like sacred texts that people like wrapped their beliefs around and it was like like christine was here like it was like harvard scientists yeah well there was my brother and i did a bhc sandy episode on um on italian uh historic sites we did pompeii and the earliest it was like the some somebody wrote an article about the earliest basically like yelp reviews in history and it was like back in pompeii and the earliest it was like the some somebody wrote an article about the earliest basically like yelp reviews in history and it was like back in pompeii before the volcano hit so

it's preserved and it was like uh old etchings that said like uh this innkeeper gave me like shitty soup and you shouldn't be here like one star basically and like uh he overcharged me even though my friend pompeius like didn't get over or whatever and they found out all these like reviews sketched into rock it's fascinating anyway so yeah and then one of them literally said um i have a big penis yeah i mean yeah so funny it's like okay so we arcade we are cavemen. Got it. We haven't changed. Yeah. We haven't evolved. Not even a little bit. Okay. I'm wrapping up here.

I just wanted to say that this place is on the National Register of Historic Places and a San Jose, it's a San Jose landmark. The gift shop, it looks like an old timey attraction on its own. They've got like an old, like a 25 cent psychic where it's like one of those automated wizards that like i love those tells you if you're cool or not and then um i don't need 25 cents i know the answer uh and they have like a 1916 movie box for you to like look in and like see a charlie chaplin video playing. They sell a bunch of products. I remember going into the gift shop alone

before I actually went on the tour and I was like, this is fucking noodles. And then, and here's my favorite update. As of 2020, due to COVID, so Winchester Mystery House usually has a shitload of tours. Like they have a garden tour. They have a normal tour.

They have an even longer extended normal tour. They have like a behind the scenes tour like they have a garden tour they have a normal tour they have an even longer extended normal tour they have like an a behind the scenes tour they have a flashlight tour on halloween i think they host seances or something um but obviously they're not making any money right now because of covid so winchester mystery house has done quite um a a charitable thing here charitable like to me only like um but they have uh built out an entire virtual tour on the website for a very very reasonable price of like reasonable price of like 10 bucks really so you can do the entire tour also um one of the things i did you can become like a winchester member which i did online and uh I think you get access to this all the time but it's a not just like a virtual um like a they have a virtual documentary

that's like 45 minutes long where it teaches you all about Sarah Winchester and they have a 360 virtual tour where like you can literally click through it and go through all the rooms and how cool I feel like like they don't realize how like good of an idea that is because on the normal tour, you only get to see a chunk of the house, but this thing for 10 bucks, you can see the, you can see every room that's even off limits.

Wow. So it's really, really cool. And through it, there are like little dots for you to like click on and it'll play. There was one that played like a haunted video. Like they, like there was like a played like a haunted video like they like there was like a chandelier and when you clicked on it there was an actual like embedded youtube

video okay someone someone who went on the tour and you can see the chandelier swinging like crazy by itself that's cool so it was also its own little haunted tour because you got like little clips like that so i highly suggest it um i am actually going to go home and redo the tour again because i'm trying i'm trying to memorize the whole layout so i can be like i know that house like it's easy i want i know been there done that i want to go with you we've never been together no i would love to go with you i would love and when we went to san jose which was lemon's birthday birthplace also uh we were there for so like such a brief amount of time we didn't get to go but i would love to go it was to this day it's one of my favorite uh attractions i've ever been to and you're right that now i'm that i'm mentioning the episode where i mentioned the house from

san jose and i mentioned lemons all in one episode and that's true oh my god and san jose is lemon's birthplace so um so there's the 360 tour you can see uh surprisingly a lot of the house um also you can see that there's a lot of things in there that have like this like old-timey spider web design on it which um is pretty interesting in theory because like i looked up the meaning of a spider web or spiders in general and apparently it quote spiders embody women the creative force and weaving the designs of life and fate spider bestows the power to work magic over people and things by weaving it gains a certain amount of control which sounds very much like exactly what she was trying to do i just got like intense goose cam that is so on point so the last this is um this is also i miss skylar shout out to skylar and deb the web oh my

god skylar's like thank god you're gone okay this is my last part i couldn't i couldn't do this right um without talking about zb so i knew it i knew it um there isn't too much to go off of here but i still wanted to mention it because he's as ridiculous as ever um so he introduces by the way the episode uh his episode at the winchester house uh he introduces the house while holding a rifle and then he shoots at the camera sorry wow somehow that took me by surprise i for whatever reason i was not expecting that he shoots at the camera and like obviously it's like it's like a dummy ballistic but he it like goes off the but also you're not ever supposed to fucking point even an unloaded gun

maybe it was aaron behind the camera that's the only that must have been it um there are several shots where he's like pointing a gun at the camera god um there's one in the middle there's like a b-roll shot of all three of them pointing a gun at the camera stop it so a lot of the beginning parts of like their walkthrough is just shots of zach being lost and just being like but it's like almost like that douchey freshman sophomore high schooler lost where he's like he's not lost but he like just wants the attention he's like he wants to make a scene he's like wait but you're over there but i'm over here but you're over there it's like yeah zach it's a fucking maze like that's the point um and then he like is just like constantly blown away by this house he says it's like being in willie wonka's chocolate factory and then he licks the wallpaper no that's not he went to no he oh my god he got a little too wonka with it um so he

this is my favorite part because i think i have a feeling and if this is true please god write us and let us know if i'm telling the truth here i'm pretty sure one of the workers or whoever was on the this episode she must be a listener of and that's why we drink just her attitude I just kind of get a vibe I was like she would listen to our podcast um because she'd be a she'd be a friend she'd be a friend like if I ever mentioned Zach Bagelbites to her she'd be like let me fucking tell you about this guy um so the worker like pokes fun at him for getting lost because he has to go to the bathroom so bad and he's like and there's like fucking 13 bathrooms but none of them work anymore and a fun fact in case you do go to this house the actual bathroom

is like outside because they don't want anyone accidentally going to the wrong bathroom so they have a totally separate bathroom on site um but he was like trying to like get into the bathrooms but they all have like this glass panel on them so you can see in to the bathroom but he was like trying to like get into the bathrooms but they all have like this glass panel on them so you can see in to the bathroom and he's like trying to yank the door and it's locked and he can't get in so he goes up to this worker and he's like i have to use the bathroom like a camel which like don't camels hold their pee really well yeah you're supposed to say like a racehorse right but apparently i need to pee like someone who doesn't need to pee okay um that sounds about correct.

And the worker pokes fun at him for getting lost. And so Hugh could tell, like, maybe he still has to pee or something. And it's really bad. Because he went, you've worked here for four years. I've been here for four minutes. And then the worker goes, I learned the entire house in two days. No wonder Em wants to learn the virtual tour to be able to say the same that's exactly why i was like i could learn that in two days then i gotta like i could just keep clicking back and forth

i'm like that asshole who's zach who's like yeah i'm lost okay i get it i'm terrible directions i just need to pee that i get it zach for once i get it i i really liked her like snap and i like her snap back at him and i feel like her eyes suggested like i know exactly what i fucking said and someone out there is going to appreciate this and i do we do so uh only like really small things happened during the first part of this investigation they were like um it was like like some evps that were really like not very specific there was like an orb in a picture that he fucking freaked out over the most important thing that i should mention is before the investigation they thought

it was important to prep for this with like to like really bring out the spirits who are mad about the winchester rifle and so they went to a shooting range and they shot at a white poster that said demon on it so really piss him off oh my god so um so that's what he fucking did it was at least like a like arguably a five minute segment of him just shooting out a white piece of paper oh my god i don't need like and he looked so badass i'm sure he wore the exact shirt to show off the exact tattoos he wanted to show off on his exact biceps um so uh the main thing that happened during this investigation which like i guess is an interesting experiment during the tour he found out that some people think that this house is actually on either ley lines or some sort of vortex or it could be a portal to another realm or something

okay love that yeah and so he ended up saying uh there have been some other houses or some other locations that we've investigated that we felt like we had really strong attachments to or we had really interesting experiences at and they also claimed to be portals to the other side one of them was the washoe club in nevada and the other was bobby mackie's in kentucky right which by the way i found out is 15 minutes from my freaking house and we have triangulated ourselves just like house of pies it's 15 minutes from cincinnati so that doesn't really give you much direction but i didn't realize how close it was to cincinnati but when you visit we have to go oh without question but 15 minutes i do think it's fun

that we've made a full circle here in our triangulating we've learned nothing this whole time uh we've learned nothing well is anybody surprised if we had learned something i'd be disappointed we uh we have not changed so um so i haven't seen the bobby mackie's episode in a very long time but i vaguely remember that it was like one of his earlier very dark episodes where oh he was actually they performed an exorcism on him at bobby mackie's oh dear because he was like there was he had an attachment and then he went to this place that's supposed to be super powerful and got an exorcism and like the demon like kind of low-key came out at bobby mackie's or something so bobby mackie's apparently just the thought of it makes him feel really uncomfortable so he thought since these are other places that are

really powerful that are said to be vortexes and i'm currently in one of them one of those houses what if we he made it try he tried to make it sound much more scientific and elaborate than it was really. What it was, was he was Skyping to other people. Um, he was calling those places in those places while they investigated. And the thought was that they, they could all talk to each other, um, while they were all investigating at the same time.

And if Zach said, like, if you are a spirit at Bobby Mackey's, please come to the Winchester Mystery House. And they would try to measure, did any of their equipment go off after that demand? Or was there any evidence at both Bobby Mackey's and Winchester Mystery House that something was happening at the same time during a transfer of the spirit? So it's an interesting theory. Yeah, I mean, I get the concept.

He tried to make it sound like he was like a secret agent and like figured out he was like we're going to connect with these other people through a satellite network and i was like okay the internet right skype um so basically what happened they ended up getting some good stuff um right when the washoe club asked the spirits to jump to the winchester house aaron feels cold spikes and the bobby mackies picks up a demonic growl and on an evp so it's interesting that all three of them interacted in some way they didn't know that it was happening they were all saying at the same time there was like oh this happened to me oh this happened to me but they didn't know like oh right now i'm gonna say this no they didn't know okay got it got it they like lined

it up later yeah got it and uh some of some things they were able to pick up in real time and other things i think they just found out later in post were happening at the same time um but so they picked up a growl and then later zach says like this the voice that i heard was at when i was at bobby mack he sounded exactly like this demon so in his theory this thing heard them from the winchester house and like wanted to scare them all over again from the last time um skype with him got it they he to facetime yeah so uh zach asked the spirits to come through and at the same time something at the washoe club moved and an investigator got touched and there was a female evp that came in that said hey you um that's nice yeah aaron feels a cold spot at the same time that things are going on at bobby mackie's and they think that they both feel uh the spirit jumping

from one place to another because they're both having cold spots and called it at the exact same moment um while bobby mackie's is trying to figure out connection issues on their satellite network um they ask if the spirits are responsible for their shitty wi-fi and and evp says yes um then at the washoe club there was a male voice that came through um in real time that said enter which is terrifying and then aaron all of a sudden feels like he wants to throw up at the same time an evp comes out that says aaron kill oh that being said i listened to it and it doesn't sound like aaron kill um okay but there was knocking on the wall that made no sense and a lot of their equipment started going off at the same time um aaron starts getting like hot and cold sweats he wanders off and doesn't realize that he wandered off which is like one of the first signs of a possession which apparently he also did at bobby

mackie's i think um he says he wants to be alone and he feels like he did when he was at bobby mackie's and he's like really scared but he goes off to be by himself and says that he he tells the spirits i'm alone come get me um and at bobby's mackey's they said did you go after aaron and an evp in bobby mackey said he told me to so that's kind of cool that is creepy uh aaron walks up to zach and apparently he has like one of those like really sinister looks where he's not himself zach freaks out um and says like you look really scary you look like you don't normally look and aaron says that he the whole time didn't realize he even approached zach but he saw a man standing by him

um and then an evp shows up that says aaron you're an ass so after all this this is the after this portal test one of the um uh members from the washoe club investigation they apparently didn't feel really good and like couldn't shake it after the investigation and their symptoms got so bad that only 10 days later she went to an exorcist oh dear so i apparently they even put a disclaimer in the show where they're like she she apparently was already dealing with some dark attachments. So we don't know if we made it worse or not, but probably didn't help. Oh, dear. Okay.

And then this is probably actually my favorite thing that's happened on Ghost Adventures, but it's kind of sad. But it's the most goose bumpy, goose cam thing for me. Okay. Is that after that portal test happened, they were on their own investigation for the night and everything's really calm. Nothing's happening at all, but they're holding like a piece of equipment

and it goes off. You can hear the alarm go off. And with, he did not have his like human body physiologically didn't have time to react to this. So it's not like he heard this and then all of a sudden said something. He at the same time that the sound goes off, he like looks at the camera and goes, I have to stop. I have to go. And he just was acting.

He also said it really calmly, like nothing was happening that should have freaked him out. But he looked like he wasn't doing good. He said that like before the equipment went off, felt really really weird and like really off and then like literally as he starts talking the machine goes off so i don't think he could have known about that and he just looks at the camera and says i have to stop i have to go and then he radioed the property manager to let them out and it's the only time he's ever like exited a location and that happened at 1 a.m and they were in pacific standard time and the next day he found out that at 4 a.m eastern standard time which is the same time his grandmother died yeah so not like the best note to end on but you know

holy shit still creepy still very that is so goose cammy uh anyway that is the winchester mystery house again so good thank you wow i'm sorry welcome to the longest episode we've ever done but uh the laptop says one hour 59 minutes super duper listen i'm that was wild i'm like i was just enamored also the thing about his grandma that's isn't that crazy oh boy i mean i like when my grandma died i had the same kind of like weird full-on body panic attack like couldn't breathe thing and i didn't even know why until later so it's like the same like your body's reacting you don't know why it was super weird too because like it was almost like when the meter went off it was like his grandma like went to say bye or something yeah like it triggered the thing oh that's so crazy it was weird that it almost like registered the

experience he was having and he was so calm he literally just looked at the camera like we have to go it was very weird but um anyway i i'm i would like to apologize and say, sorry, this is so long. But the last couple of times we've done that, we've gotten a slew of DMs from people being like, we love your long episodes. Please stop apologizing. Yeah, they keep yelling us to stop apologizing. So I guess maybe eventually we will stop. So today we'll own it.

It's in our nature. But I am going to justify it. Today we'll own it. I'm going to justify it with saying I've wanted to uh get a uh get some like redemption on researching that location because we didn't know what we were doing the first time we got to talk about it we just were like what's our favorite thing and then we talked about it and then like 100 episodes later we were like oh i wish we could have like really taken the time to like yeah go into it yeah um so there you go well uh i do want to say one one really quick note i forgot when we were talking

earlier about our flashbacks of like wow we did like this hadn't happened this hadn't happened this hadn't happened yet we also forgot to mention the best part we never we hadn't met eva yet no we hadn't even had eva in our lives so no wonder we were so dismal and dark we should do a little clinky clink oh yeah here we go clink cheers to eva to eva without eva this we would not have 200 episodes surely so um without eva i'd probably be buried somewhere in the ground i would have buried you but that's okay that's exactly it yeah okay i wouldn't have survived anyway thank you eva for your service we love you eva forever and ever and ever don't ever leave us okay i have a story for you today this is the story of

jonestown i've heard of this one have you yeah oh my gosh i'm so excited about this this is another one where em and i covered like a story we were super excited about in the first episode and then we're like shit I want to do it again. So we did it again. I'm very excited. Oh, my gosh. I also I so I intentionally did not listen to your half of the episode. Oh, you didn't?

I wanted to make sure that I didn't just copy myself when it came to like the banter. I want to like. Oh, I probably did that with yours. But no, I loved it. I tried not to. I felt bad halfway through because I was like, man, like she's really like helping me out here. enter i want to like oh i probably did that with yours but no i loved it i tried not to i i felt bad halfway through because i was like man like she's really like helping me out here and i like did not do this but i silly i wanted to make sure that i came in with a fresh mind okay if i'm being

fully honest i listened to it last night so it's very fresh oh perfect okay i i just wanted to uh give a hot take that's all i love it okay wait So now I'm ultra excited because there's a lot of things that we said that are so dumb. All I remember is that there is a woman named Christine who like saves the day at one point. Yes. I mean, that's the most important part of the story, I would argue. I mean, and her last name is not Schieffer. Wait a minute. Okay, hang on.

Well, we didn't need to add that detail. Okay. But I guess we could add it if we have to it's too late all right so before 9-11 that's how we're beginning uh before 9-11 this incident was known as the largest single incident of intentional civilian death in american history holy shit okay followed only by 9-11 so let's start with jim jones he was born on may 13th 1931 so he's a taurus i love it sounds stubborn you're right uh this was before we ever added our zodiac obsession into our stories but yep lo and behold he was a taurus he was from indiana

which you told you told everybody everyone all the problems or all the crazy people come from Indiana or something like that yikes I uh well I'm from like 10 minutes from Indiana so I was like yeah I mean you're not wrong I just know that the here's the thing uh as someone who's always lived on coasts I just don't know the Midwest well enough to trust it the middle is scary I feel like it's such a like a gray blur and you know it so you know you can get away with a lot there's a lot happening there and it's so yeah it's all blurred together yeah uh no you're completely spot on also let me take this moment to say i don't know what uh sarah winchester zodiac was but i can pretty much guarantee she

was a gemini she sounds like a gemini she sounds like a that's probably why i kept saying wow i get it i guess i mean also like i'm sure a million people are about to tweet us what her was a Gemini she sounds like a Gemini she sounds like a that's probably why I kept saying wow I get it I get it I mean also like I'm sure a million people are about to tweet us what her actual birthday was but like I do think she you're wrong I'm telling you she's a Gemini I'm sure like her rising sign was Gemini if nothing else without question yeah okay um so if you so I don't know who remembers what from episode one but I'll tell you jim jones on his wikipedia page uh the top suggestion in the see also section is list of people who have claimed to be jesus and drinking the kool-aid so those are kind of the two tags he gets those are those

are his uh his most notable hashtags yeah exactly got it that's like his tinder bio um so in episode one uh you so you had commented that you thought this was kind of like a story that our parents had known about while it happened and we only heard second hand yes which is kind of true like drink the kool-aid you hear of it but, you know, during a time when we were not alive. I just remember, I don't know why I ever saw it, but I only have, maybe because it was the most dramatic or the most traumatic, but I remember like the image of like everyone on the ground afterwards. Yes, horrific. But that's the only thing I ever knew before really hearing the whole story. So I think I made up the story in my head to match that picture. Well, you did talk about a documentary you watched, but you did say you didn't pay attention

to it. So make sense if I don't remember it three years later, then. OK. I thought that's what you're going to mention. But yeah, that's what you talked about. So Jim Jones was always known as a really weird kid according to a childhood friend named chuck wilmore so there's this 2006 documentary not sure if that's the one you watched called jonestown the life and death of people's temple oh maybe it is there are quite a few documentaries so i don't know which one's

which but um maybe it's the one his childhood friend said he was obsessed with religion he was obsessed with death a friend of mine told me he saw jimmy kill a cat with a knife so shit like he's you know homicidal homicidal triadding all over the place yeah they say yeah as nobody says but me it's there it's looking not a hundred percent it's not looking great no things aren't starting off great. So according to a book called The Road to Jonestown by Jeff Gwynn, Jones also had an early fascination with Adolf Hitler. Yikes.

Yikes. TM, TM, TM. Let's make that a quadruple threat then. Yes, this is a homicidal quadruple. Quadrad. I don't know. The homicidal quadrad. You know what it is. What is it? The homicidal quadruple. Quadrad. I don't know. The homicidal quadrad. You know what it is.

What is it? The homicidal rhombus. What have we done here? Goodbye. Hang on a second. Cruel world. How did we? Goodbye, cruel world.

I'm leaving you. I'm leaving this earthly plane. Leaving my husk behind. It's the love triangle. Nay. It's the homicidal rhombus. It's the homicidal. I feel Eva writing that down for the episode title. the homicidal rhombus. It's the homicidal. I feel Eva writing that down for the episode title.

The homicidal rhombus. Wow. Hang on. TMTM. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it.

When we make shirts with a rhombus on it, don't you dare tell us that we copyrighted anything. Okay. Don't tell us that's a triangle because we don't know. Yeah. We don't know what shape it is. No, it could be. It's a rhombus.

It could be a hexagon for all i know well that's a big word okay there was an x in there i felt really really smart with it yeah way to like who won over me okay so according to his friend he had i'm sorry according to this author this biography uh jones had an early fascination with adolf hitler when hitler this is a quote when hitler committed suicide in april 1945 thwarting enemies who sought to capture and humiliate him jimmy was impressed he wrote so i feel like a um a lot of my reactions are going to just be like recreations of jim halpert's face all the time i'm just like yeah like the side eye yeah yeah the groan yep uh as a kid jim speaking of jim was a regular churchgoer he graduated from butler university and you can actually find his transcript online um at jonestown.sdsu.edu uh and actually here i don't know you probably can't see it but i have a picture

of his actual transcript oh i i kind of see it i kind of see it it looks dark yeah it's hard to see but his transcript basically says that he got a b in public speaking which is very interesting since he became a cult leader yeah it's it's fun to find the little the little figments of your youth yeah the faults the little fault what were your youth. Yeah, the faults, the little faults. What were the foreshadowing moments that no one paid attention to? Yeah, he might have been overcompensating because he got to be in public speaking. And then he decided to enter the ministry. Okay.

So in 1955, Jim Jones decides he's going to start a cult in Indianapolis. He described this as a church. I was going to say, did he wake up and go cult it is that's today's plan um his church quote unquote was originally called the wings of deliverance uh but then he changed the name to the people's temple which is the one that stuck sure he wanted to build a type of ut, and he preached that his church would be communist, anti-racist, and socialist. He adopted many interracial kids. He strove for a community that was inclusive of all races and ethnicities.

And he claimed to have special powers to heal the sick and dying. He would often stage healings, which reminds me of like the evangelical. Yes. Yeah. Like speaking in tongues type yeah yeah yeah like the super fundamentalist people yeah like the heart yeah exactly like the hardcore he would stage these big healings um in front of audiences and he would always wear i have a photo of this for the video he would always wear dark sunglasses inside outside whether it was sunny or not i remember him looking looking a little like Elvis Presley or something. Yes.

He was very flashy. Yeah. Yeah. He always wore his like greased hair and his sunglasses. Exactly. So there is a there's an academic named Catherine B. Abbott who wrote her master's thesis about Jonestown. And here's a quote from one of jim

jones's sermons about women so i'm just gonna read you this quote i can't wait imagine me in sunglasses okay and this very day this very day you women are treated not like a whole piece of shit men are treated at least like a whole piece of shit but women are treated like a little side shit the big shit show goes for the man you say well why are women not able to make as much wages women have the same jobs and make half the pay we need women to be free women just cannot even get free they can work just as hard when do you nope who do you blame for it you blame your bible you can blame your bible You can blame your sky god because a woman has never accounted for nothing but a little side shit. She's never been anything. She's never amounted to anything.

Woman's supposed to have been the fault of man's fall. Poor damn fool. Okay. So. So. Oof. That's a lot to unpack. Yeah, there's a lot going on there.

It sounds. So it started. Is it misogynistic at some point i felt like he was rooting for women and then it sounded like he fucking hates them what happened no no he's saying like women you've never been treated right like men are treated like so much above you even though you work just as hard ah shit was shit was being used positively yeah he was like yes well he's like he's like you're treated like a little piece of shit at least men are treated like an entire piece of shit and you're only treated like a side shit that's how i that's

how i i heard it originally negatively of like oh like you're uh i don't even know how i took it yeah it doesn't matter and to be quite honest'm not 100% sure I'm even understanding it correctly. I think it's good that we're, it shows our logic that like we can't comprehend something that's illogical. It's hard to, it's hard to fully grasp. He also recounts the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. He mocks the story. He calls Luciferifer lucifart oh

well wow okay um and he asserts god was a liar the snake told the truth so i'm pretty sure he's basically saying like christianity is a lie i'm starting this utopia all races are equal all humans are equal like i mean it's basically like that classic story of a utopia like everything's gonna be great right we're all just gonna be happy la la like you know and so clearly it doesn't end that way but that's how it began right so as he gained more and more traction he would preach less about the bible and more about social activism he called himself a prophet he had hundreds of followers and he was preaching to a very diverse audience and then sometimes in the sometime in the early 60s he found this article in esquire uh the like men's magazine that listed the nine safe places in the world in the event of a nuclear catastrophe

written by my father i think and uh edited by me yes uh one of those listed in the article was eureka california which esquire said escapes damages in the war games attack because it is west of the sierras and upwind from every target in the united states so jim jones was like well i guess that is where i'm gonna move my church so he is now in his mid-30s he moves his church to california and basically the way that he do you remember how he made money um for the church no let me give you a hint call me daddy and i'll sell you a monkey oh bm schultz, 2017. I was going to say, let's throw that on a shirt.

I'm guessing he sold monkeys. Oh, he was a door-to-door monkey salesman or something. And then you mentioned your stepmom had a bear or something. Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he... Right? Didn't that happen?

Or am I blacking out? Fully, 100%. Okay. He basically would sell imported monkeys door-to-door, at the time we were like that's cool and now i'm like that's just really sad now that i've learned a lot more about animal cruelty and all that good stuff um but yeah he would sell imported monkeys door-to-door and then i told a story how my stepmother and her brothers bought a bear from a catalog. Yes. And it escaped, ended up on I-75. You know, now, so let's reflect.

Because the first time I heard that story, I didn't know you. Now that I hear it, today I would not react. I would be like, okay, when does it get different? When does it get unique? You're like, yeah, I figured that probably happened. I was like, I'm shocked it took this long to know that about you but okay yeah they bought a bear from a catalog kept it in the sunroom of the playroom and then their parents got home from like a six month trip and found it in the sunroom and then they kept it and then one day it escaped and they

found it on i-75 and then the cincinnati zoo took it in and they would always come visit it on weekends and then eventually obviously it died because this was many many decades ago but yeah it lived there for a long time yeah anyway just the wildest story um and the cincinnati zoo did take good care of it even though this is just a horrific thing that people are selling animals on in catalogs it's just wild but anyway so he sold monkeys door to door uh he also would drain all of his churchgoers bank accounts um and you know took all their money basically scientology style to fund the church uh and it grew and grew and according to a journalist named tim reiterman uh the people's temple attracted decent hard-working

socially conscious people some highly educated who wanted to help their fellow man and serve god not in uh not embrace a self-proclaimed deity on earth and people would flock to the people's temple uh because one of the big reasons was because of its marketing so there were these like he just was like a king he was a salesman i guess so he was like good at marketing so he was a schmooman i guess so he was like good at marketing so he was a schmoozer yeah he yeah he was very good at selling his product whatever it may be monkeys churches i don't know monkeys check churches absolutely absolutely you say it i got it bada bing bada boom yeah let me open my briefcase yes uh so you can find pamphlets there's actually

a photo for the youtube video you can find pamphlets there's actually a photo for the youtube video you can find pamphlets that were handed out um there are these like flowery quotes about how great of an example jim jones set for humanity um and there were these photos like candid photos of the community with quotes alongside them so there's this photo of all these children uh lifting up a log and the caption was children are given the opportunity to work and play in pleasant outdoor settings they even find that work projects can be fun yikes so yikes right it's like okay read between the lines children are working yeah this is child labor unpaid child labor this pamphlet also mentions how that year the people's temple were doing summer vacation

tours where pastor jones took hundreds of members from all three churches on a tour of the country for example in 75 jim jones took hundreds of members to disneyland so okay it was presented pretty great like they're like oh well we have fun uh we serve humanity we go to disneyland like i mean it's all paid for it sounds like the perfect first ingredient to a utopia cult where it's like okay it starts as a utopia and then it's a cult the classic two-step right the one two-step as uh as missy elliott has uh said before was that missy elliott that'sy elliot right sierra sierra oh my gosh or was it maybe both of them were in that song i think i'm failing my my my all my 90s babies i'm so sorry i think it might have been both were in that song though so anyway um so but in exchange

for all of this like disney trips and you know this affection and support followers were expected to devote themselves completely to this utopian project so basically they would turn over all their finances um classic cult move they would work long hours of unpaid labor they would have to break contact with their families um so like that reminds me of heaven's gate where like they just were cut off unless it was like monitored communication and uh followers were expected to raise their families and children within the commune. So as now this reminds me of NXIVM, speaking of cults, as a show of commitment, people's temple members were asked to sign false testimonials that they had molested their children. As like as like as as as collateral, like collateral.

In case in case something happened they had this like fake evidence to make you look terrible it's also my thing of scientology where they like yes like fair game it's a similar exactly a similar idea and um like in nexium they they had that too where they were they were like we need black or we need blackmail and you're we need collateral and they'd be like i don't have any and they were like well then you need to make it up like that's just how it operates so um jim had everyone in the church call him either father or dad which is where you came up with your lovely call me daddy and i'll sell you i was quote i immediately heard dad and went oh daddy like i'm sure someone fucking called him daddy yikes they did and and like you can hear it in the audio tapes that they still

have of the commune it's pass the grant nope we're past we're past that holiday just fucking pass hard pass no thank you period uh he described himself as christ and he won at one point also announced that he considered himself god uh he also took a lot of drugs which no i know i know that was shocking get out of town man and uh it was these drugs and maybe his past job history that may or may not have led him to acquiring a pet chimpanzee or maybe the the brain activity that made him think you should get a chimpanzee to begin with yeah yeah there were a lot of steps a lot of one two three four five six steps that led to this chimpanzee being acquired by mr jones and the chimpanzee's name was mr muggs shut up

i know and we have a photo um i'm gonna put it the video. I don't think I have it for you here. That's okay. We have a photo for the video of Mr. Muggs, and he's very sweet. He eventually became sort of like a mascot, much like Gio, for the cult. Okay, wait a minute. Now I'm starting to see too many similarities. Wait a minute. Yeah, it's a little parallel.

Remember that time at one of the live shows when someone screamed and shouted and called me daddy? Em, do you remember like multiple live shows where that happened? Because you literally called yourself daddy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, just I thought maybe I'd add that. It's out of context. Nobody knows. You started it.

Okay, wait a minute. Sorry to myself. Sorry. I want you to apologize to me directly. sorry christine it's i regret it and also like we've we've done so well at keeping everything a secret about the show that i definitely made it sound more mysteriously x-rated now so everyone if you went to the show you get it if not or maybe you don't get it you're still like i don't get it which is fair i still don't get it okay but anyway everyone's being called daddy we've got it we've got a mascot there's

a mascot got it yeah who's more popular than us yeah i get it um according to a 1973 article from what they called the temple reporter which was like literally their own newspaper i love it uh what a what a business and i'm, who was in charge of that? Here's the quote. Only 18 months old. This is about Mr. Muggs. Only 18 months old, he has the intelligence of a four-year-old child. It may sound anthropomorphic, but Muggs will follow every command of Pastor Jones and will

defend him when anyone comes up casually to pet the chimpanzee. So he was like a member of the family um and though the people's temple had gained significant admiration from a lot of left-wing icons including angela davis harvey milk and the black panthers um jim developed this like really intense paranoia and he was convinced that the fbi and cia were after him okay and his church like was still growing though and he heard there was like this expose being written about him and the people's temple so he decided it was time to move from california to somewhere a little more isolated and that is when okay he took his big

fam and his monkey and went to guyana oh where where we've performed, obviously. Oh yeah, our stage is still down there, yes. He flew all of his hundreds of members to Guyana in 1977, found a remote section of jungle, he leased it from the government to relocate the people's temple, and it basically became a working agricultural commune called Jonestown, named after himself. And it was basically considered a utopian settlement away from the meddling media and government of the United States. I see. So over time, more and more people would come and like fly to Guyana to join the movement. There were about 900 people in total. And unfortunately, not shockingly, Jonestown was not quite as utopian as people had envisioned.

So it was a small place. It was a small, tiny place. There were not enough cabins. So everyone was kind of piled on top of each other. There weren't enough resources. It sounds a little bit like Fire Island. Remember? You know, I was going to say Fire Island.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That was actually one of our first real uh outside of the paranormal that was one of our first real friendship like gossip chit chats where we like when you came over before we recorded and i said sit your fucking ass down you've got to talk yeah i remember that day i remember that was one of the first times i remember thinking during that conversation we're finally not talking about ghosts and i still like her wow we're finally talking about

another type of crime yeah shocker yeah so that's what it sounds like a little bit um so the uh so people came to this place looking for utopia they ended up working 11 to 12 hour days which again sounds pretty fucking familiar to our hollywood lives absolutely the cabins were gender specific so married couples were split up and according to an ex-member named tim carter jim jones hated romantic relationships within the temple because he was worried that they would be like a threat to his religion like they would band together yeah like they yeah exactly so the members he would was worried they would be focused um on the relationship instead of their work so this ex-member named tim carter said my wife gloria and i were one of those couples who never really talked to each

other about what our true feelings were about jones because we were afraid that the other might get called up to the carpet so basically like you didn't know if you could trust the other person it's also like scientology again yeah i'm sure it's like a lot of other cults but at least with scientology i know like you're afraid to even go to your like your own parents about things because they'll write you up if they're in the church right exactly um so furthermore according to an ex-temple follower named joyce houston uh jim said that all of us were homosexuals what all of us were homo homosexuals yes okay all all of us except him huh he was the only heterosexual on the planet what okay was this did you say this the first time around no

i didn't know about this and when i i was gonna say this and i went what this is the most shocking information of this entire 50 hour episode when i found it so hold on so he so it was gay camp or straight camp but gay camp he made everyone gay he prayed yeah you may not yeah you may not be straight pray this i can be pray the straight away finally one of those oh my god straight away except unless you're like the person running the camp then you're like as straight as a fucking arrow then you're immune yeah yeah oh my god that is exactly what it was so he said he was the only heterosexual on the planet and that the women were all lesbians the guys were all gay and so anyone who showed an interest in sex was just compensating

though a married man himself jones would supposedly engage in sexual relations with sexual relations with some of his female and male followers and there were quite a few accounts of harassment misconduct and abuse which wow oh shocker he was sleeping with who he thought were lesbians so i'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say if he thinks they're lesbians he's forcing them to sleep with him right it doesn't make any sense but also he's like kind of gay like if he's sleeping with the guys right right there's a reason i i think there's reason he's like so outwardly aggressive about everybody's orientation i'm straight as an arrow i think you're straight as a circle bro like look at you sleeping with men screaming about how straight you are and yelling that everyone else is compensating and it's like what they're already

married like leave them alone yeah i don't know why is being gay so involved in both of these stories and we didn't even know it. It's weird, right? It never, I mean, it's kind of like the first episode of our show. It makes sense that this is how we would devolve from there. But this is some queer shit. I'm so about it. Okay. Yeah, me too.

So he would manipulate his followers from things like, so everyone's passports were confiscated. He would censor letters home. Also, if he didn't like your name because it reminded him of someone he didn't like he would just change your name i mean to be fair we do that to megan's so again another similarity also like the queer thing is really i feel attacked um i don't like how close to home this is becoming well you're not gonna like this then because the first example is a woman named linda and he said i don't linda i don't like your name so he changed her name to sharon oh i'm sorry girl i know and uh obviously this place was also in guyana so

it was super duper hot people were getting sick and if you resisted any of his orders you'd have to answer to his armed guards which he called the red brigade lord okay yikes so uh he was like constantly off his face on drugs basically um and his followers were always working in this like labor camp basically and he would basically spend all his time talking into a loudspeaker over the PA system. Okay, again, we spend all of our time talking into essentially a big-ass PA system. Uh-oh, uh-oh. And he would basically go on, rant about his philosophies.

And by the way, if you look at his friggin' transcript here, he got a B in philosophy. So I think someone else is overcompensating, and it's... He just wants that goddamn A. I know know it's like public speaking in philosophy and now he's shouting into a pa system about his personal religion oh boy um so basically like at two in the morning he would just get on the pa system and start ranting so like nobody got sleep everyone was constantly working it was miserable um and then when you were done working you'd have to attend what they called mandatory propaganda classes so oh i don't like that okay that one i that one i i i turned i turned uh i turned my back on uh really because i got an a in that class um so the guyanese government actually turned kind of like ignored the the authoritarian ruling of

this cult because jim jones had sort of sweet talked his way into acquiring this land and he basically presented it to the government as like a benefit because he said uh they would so he would basically speak of their advantages as being an American presence near Guyana's disputed border with Venezuela. So he basically framed it as like a political benefit to them that these Americans were living kind of near the border. And this would add to your resistance against Venezuela, basically your defense. Got it. basically your defense got it um so back in the u.s parents of inhabitants of jonestown began to get really concerned by like the weird letters they would get or the lack of letters if they were being censored so they started uh lobbying the government to investigate and this is where

our hero comes in one of our heroes uh u.s congressman leo ryan and we i gotta i think you know what i'm thinking too do you what no just just tumbleweeds in there okay so uh no i mean just another like we didn't know then but like one of one of the people that work for us his name is leo and he's our business manager an actual hero he's an actual hero he saves us every day so like saved us from tax accidental tax fraud really truly i we but like wow just so many things that we like had no idea about at the time that are now just like we're just foreshadowing and we had no idea it's just like uh uh synchronicity yeah anyway leo's wife uh listens to our show pretty uh religiously so give leo's wife uh listens to our show pretty religiously so give leo a hug for us because again we would not be here 200 episodes later if it weren't for leo keeping no we wouldn't

we really wouldn't so out of jail out of podcasting jail yes um so oh my god so congressman ryan had heard reports about jonestown and memory many family members of people who were basically asking him uh oh and in the episode by the way i said i was taking myself so seriously and you called me out because i basically said congressman leo ryan and i said he was a congressman um his name was leo ryan and you were like oh really like you repeated yourself with the same information and you were like and let me guess was he a congressman and i was like okay wow i'm funny i would listen to a podcast you gotta listen to episode one it was pretty funny oh that's good um and i was like all flustered oh my god so basically this guy congressman ryan flies down with an nbc tv crew which like i think

in episode one we failed to like see the potential of this being like an amazing tlc reality show without question he flies to occultant guyana with a tv crew like hello that sounds like that screams tlc that screams fire fest hulu documentary wait a minute actually like come on that's literally uh pretty much the same premise yeah so he flies down with his nbc tv crew and and they brought along again tlc brought along some of the relatives who were like super concerned about what their families were doing down there what a what a move uh as a producer good call right like filled up a plane with all families were doing down there. What a move as a producer. Good call.

Right? Like filled up a plane with all the drama, flew down there. And so unfortunately, Jim Jones knew that they were coming. So he basically prepared this like elaborate show for his visitors. Basically, once the congressman and his posse flew in, they flew into an airstrip called port kaituma airstrip which we were going on and on about is there an airport in guyana in the jungle which i guess there's rip jungle airways jungle airways that's right yeah so a truck full of

people's temple members were there to pick them up and bring them to jonestown and when they arrived uh things looked like pretty okay like they were surprised at how normal everything looked um a survivor named Vernon Gosney later said that uh the congressman coming to visit was a huge deal uh they had to repaint the houses they spruced up the plants basically they sharpened up the whole place to make like a positive impression they really zhuzhed it up. Yes, they zhuzhed it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because they knew he was coming and it was a big deal. So there was a lot of rehearsal also in the community about what they were allowed to say to the congressman and what they weren't allowed to say. Yikes. Yeah. So in a documentary called Jonestown Massacre Paradise Lost, when the crew asked one Jonestown member, how long would you like to stay? They replied forever.

Just like fucking terrifying. If I asked that question and got that answer, I would be like, I immediately don't believe you. I would be calling 911 in my pocket. Like, oh, really? I'd be like, aren't you sure? We're leaving now. Yeah.

Blink twice if you actually meant i want to go lemon put on a yellow shirt i need to come rescue you don't look at lemon's yellow uh exterior today because it's too fishy too fishy i knew it um in a lot of the footage there's like all these i love it here like they were just clearly putting on airs it's really creepy um and jones was well aware of how this visit like depended how much right like basically wrote on this visit um and how he needed congressman ryan to to leave with a positive report basically so he also scheduled a fun event uh it was a dance in the pavilion for congressman uh ryan's arrival so right yeah so things were seemingly normal um they're like having this dance and he's like okay i mean i

guess they're fine and then all of a sudden someone slips him a note and the person who slips him a note is that same guy i mentioned earlier vernon gosney who was a survivor and the note says help us get out of jonestown so now this is becoming like a horror movie yeah um but also if you're the producer of that tlc show you're like oh i fucking hit the jackpot like yeah you're like write it a little bigger on a clearer make your handwriting a little better and then hand it again and also you over there pick up my fucking lettuce here's a plastic knife oh god so uh that night he got more of these letters it wasn't just from vernon like he got multiple notes from people being like i want to leave so at this point he's like okay things are not as great as they're making it out to be right so the following morning november 18th congressman ryan

makes a decision that he will be returning to the u.s with the people who have slipped him a note saying they want to leave he says you know he makes an announcement basically and he says anyone who wants to leave jonestown can come with me back to america and there are about 20 people that came forward oh okay so like as far as context goes uh if you wanted to leave Jonestown at this point, you had to have Jim Jones permission. So while this like clause, this get out clause from Congressman Ryan may have sounded appealing, a lot of the community was too scared to come forward because they knew they weren't allowed to. Right. So even though even though 20 people said yes they still it was more than 20 yes those were just the 20 bravest ones exactly those were like the ones desperate enough to leave and there were

a lot of people who were too scared to go with them right um so as vernon explains in the documentary his roommate had previously attempted to escape and was apparently punished so badly that he never tried to escape again and it's unclear like what happened but like i mentioned it later but they had like sensory deprivation boxes and like really scary you know torture mechanisms in that way so who knows but it was bad news um so congressman ryan and his team loaded these like 20 some people uh onto a truck and they drove to the airstrip and congressman ryan actually stayed behind to kind of like triple check that everything was okay like hello is anyone else wanting to come yeah like blink twice come with me exactly trying to save as many people

as he could but no one else came back uh or said they wanted to go back so as the truck was getting ready to go uh so they hop in the truck they go to the go back. So as the truck was getting ready to go, so they hop in the truck, they go to the airstrip. And as the truck is getting ready to leave or he's heading to the truck, sorry, to leave, a devout member of Jonestown runs up to him and attempts to slash his throat, Congressman Ryan's throat. Now, he fails. Okay. But Congressman Ryan's like, cool, I get it. I'm out.

Like. It's been real. It's been real. Too real, maybe. Catch you later. Catch you on the flippity flop. Yeah. It's been a little too real for me.

So he's like, okay, I get it. No one else wants to come. I'm leaving. So the truck goes to the airstrip, but the plane is a bit delayed. So they're waiting for the plane when all of a sudden a truck from jonestown turns up oh fuck it's full of cult members all armed with guns and they start shooting so basically almost everybody was killed it's horrible killed including congressman leo ryan fuck who was a congressman named leo fuck that guy yeah that guy our guy our hero he is killed uh there are journalists who are killed

um there are multiple most of the members who are trying to escape are killed um and there were only a few survivors including vernon gosney who later reported some of the stuff I've mentioned. So how did they get out? Was one of them just like luckily a fucking pilot? I think some of them were able to get on the plane and leave. And the rest had just been murdered. And they just left them behind. If it was just you and me at some point and we were stranded and the only way out was a plane, that worked perfectly.

I'd be like, Christine, I'm sorry, but we're stuck here perfectly i'd be like christine i'm sorry but we're stuck here we'd be like let's just sit down and have a snack we're done i wouldn't even like i couldn't even tell you the first 100 steps to start a plane well they were waiting on a plane so i i assume a plane came at some point and then the whoever was killed was like obviously dead and then the the remaining survivors i assume left okay with the plane and were like holy shit i see i thought it was like a completely grounded plane and everyone was boarding all together or something or no yeah the plane hadn't gotten there yet so i'm pretty sure um the survivors left on the plane uh and obviously not most people did not survive i got another survivor was actually uh one of

congressman ryan's aides named jackie spire who actually she survived five gunshots holy shit and is now a congresswoman representing california's 14th district the wildest news yikes but also like okay so that also for me is shocking because I just said that, to me, that story is so much older than me. But then, like, you realize, like, oh, people from that are still alive. Yeah. And, like, have those memories. It's one of those, I don't, time doesn't make sense to me. It's so hard to conceptualize.

Yeah. Yeah. Completely. Completely. completely um completely so as this was happening at the airstrip so back at jonestown uh jim jones assembled all of his followers in the pavilion and he told them that something was happening at the airstrip but he was not the one responsible for it but i know everything about it but it's weird it's weird that i know everything but yeah i had nothing to do with it and also there's a lot of us missing right now coming back from the airstrip but don't worry about it they just wanted an annie ann's pretzel it's a coincidence

um he told them that someone was going to assassinate congressman leo ryan but jim was not the one behind it i know about it and i could prevent it but i don't know anything i could have prevented the entire thing but i didn't um he tells the community that when the united states finds out about this attack they are going to come down on us they're going to quote torture and kill us and we've got to do something about it so basically he starts fear-mongering in this way of like we're now the culprits behind killing this congressman and like we're gonna be in such big trouble and so when once he gets the news that congressman ryan has been killed he basically like loses it he goes full steam ahead into his plan for a mass

suicide wow now there's an audio tape which i mentioned in episode one that you can actually listen to on youtube it's very disturbing um it's very creepy but you can hear basically like the whole leading up to and during this event this mass death so some quotes from uh jim jones in what is now known as the death tape uh include the following if we can't live in peace let's die in peace we are not committing suicide it's a revolutionary revolutionary act. We can't go back. They won't leave us alone. Congressman Ryan is responsible for this. He brought all these people to us.

They're purposefully agitating the death of our children. They're going to come after our children, and then our children will suffer forever. Don't be afraid to die. 50 people will land here and torture some of our children, our seniors, our people. We can't let this happen. And then finally, die with a degree of dignity. afraid to die 50 people will land here and torture some of our children our seniors our people we can't let this happen and then finally die with a degree of dignity don't go down with tears and agony this isn't the way for socialist communist people to die so he he i mean i could see why he convinced a lot of people he said the word children a lot and a lot right of just like do this for the

kids do this for the kids they're gonna get tortured if you yeah yeah yeah like weaponizing them like if you don't kill them they're going to be killed it's like exactly and also i'm jesus and can control everything but this i can't stop and also i have sunglasses on so i really can't see very well but as far as i know yeah um so i mentioned this in the first episode and you remembered it is that there is a woman named christine her name's christine miller and she was born june 4th she has the same birthday as me so that's fun for me and not her i'm sure but fun for me um and she's basically the only one who like resisted jones and you were not allowed to resist

jim jones like that is not a thing that was allowed uh but she basically just spoke her mind whenever she wanted to and people just kind of let her do it um so some of the punishments were sensory deprivation boxes being drugged in the medical unit, being threatened to be shot. But Christine kind of, like, passed by all that. One time she was threatened to be shot. And she said, shoot me, but you'll have to respect me first. Oh, shit. Wow.

And she said it three times and then Jim backed down. So she was a badass. She, like, kind of had nothing and everything to live for. Wow. Yeah. She was kick ass. That was bold. I wonder why, like, everyone just kind of let her and everything to live for wow yeah she was she was a she was kick ass that was bold i wonder why like everyone just kind of let her get away with that bullshit i don't know i think she just was like a strong independent woman she was like the only person

not entirely she's like the only person not entirely falling for this stuff so i guess maybe yeah like maybe they all at least all the people who should have done something kind of knew that this place was like something was up and maybe they really respected her confidence. Yeah, I think they were kind of like respectful and like maybe a little intimidated by her. Yeah. Wow. So actually on the death tape, you can hear Christine Miller retaliating and she tries to plead the case that everyone is an individual. They should have their right to their own opinion and she suggests instead that they airlift to russia and jim jones says it's too late for that and then she point out blank says i'm afraid to die and then she makes the following

case i think the babies deserve to live and then jim says i know it's it's fucking terrible and then jim says i agree but i think they deserve peace and she tries to use this belief system against him but he is not having it so finally the crowd turns on her and they start heckling her for speaking out against their leader basically oh shit um and finally about 22 minutes into the recording we hear the report that the congressman has been murdered to which jim responds it's all over so he starts going get moving get moving get moving and you can hear this on the tape and he orders for large vats of flavor aid not kool-aid yep to be brought to be brought out do you remember your guess of what flavor you guessed well i remember well i

know the answer is grape but i remember it being i remember always thinking it was just like classic red kool-aid yeah so i guess grape you guess cherry turns out it was grape so i i got one point in the history of our podcast so good for me um so yeah it was grape flavored which a bunch of people told us later on in the show uh laced with cyanide and valium you know when we first started this that was i like didn't hear the word cyanide every week back then yeah that was like the first time i ever heard it and i was like what's cyanide and now every time you speak on or off air i'm like when are you going to mention cyanide you're like stop talking about cyanide christine there time you speak on or off air i'm like when are you going to mention cyanide you're like stop talking about cyanide christine there's other things like fire

fire fire not everything smells like almonds christine okay we gotta go can we get a move on oh yep that's our life yep um so they had had these like trial runs over and over and over like these practice drills and And they were called White Nights. And he would basically like N-I-G-H-T-S. And he would it was a test of his followers faith and loyalty where he would wake everyone up in the middle of the night at like 3 a.m. and say they're coming for us. They're coming for us. You need to drink the Kool-Aid.

And so they would like all line up drink the Kool-Aid. And then he would say that was just a drill so it was would he actually have would they have to drink non-laced kool-aid like go completely through with it oh so when they finally did it this time maybe they some thought it was a drill again yes so there's no way to know if they even knew that this was like the time that it was actually happening or if they thought it was another drill because that's what they were used to and he would make it feel really real like he would be like wake up wake up they're coming to the comma compound like they're coming for us they're coming for the children drink the you know i mean this is a very obvious statement but that's

so manipulative like it's just so manipulative it's just wild like of course you would like always like give them like really low lows and then really high highs it's just wild like of course you would like always like give them like really low lows and then really high highs and like just to like keep them always like keep them on their toes and be like i'm testing you always it's yeah it's so fucked so they had done this a million times um and he would say this is just a drill there is no cyanide in your kool-aid so they knew what was the what the plan was basically um and so most of the group basically made their peace with drinking the kool-aid and anyone who was in the resistance would be injected with it even if this was just a drill so like if you resisted

it like you were injected with it anyway then they found like needle marks on people later so that's how they confirmed that it's fucking awful it's horrifying um so in the recording there's a woman who advises the crying people not to be crying this is something that we should all rejoice about just relax like it's so fucking creepy to listen to um it's so so creepy you can hear screaming children you can hear uh people approaching the microphone to thank dad for giving them life yeah and also to thank him for giving them death and then i think like the creepiest most like eerie part is not the screaming but when the screaming stops oh yeah so they made the dissenters go first uh you know to eliminate basically any resistance right i was gonna say the people who like were literally running around and chasing people with

needles i assume they were the most trusted people and yeah they went after the fact yeah yeah exactly the people who were like totally on board yeah went last yeah exactly and they also had guards with guns so like you didn't really have much of a choice unless you want to be shot um but like if you okay sorry just stupid like uh if you don't do this you'll get shot but if you live then other people will come and shoot you like it yeah it's just like lose lose lose yeah no matter what you're dying i've already decided yeah yeah you're screwed exactly jim jones himself was killed by a single gunshot wound and actually nobody knows whether it was

self-inflicted um or if somebody else did it and the the guess is that he did it to himself um but obviously you know we still don't know if because there were many guns on this compound we don't know if somebody else did it or if he ordered somebody to do it. But he did not drink the Kool-Aid. So that's an interesting tidbit. Wow. But he was also straight and nobody else on the planet was. Right.

Only gay people have to drink Flavor-Aid. Oh, my God. So Guyanese troops were the first to reach Jonestown. They came the next morning, discovered a total of 913 people dead in a field this included 276 children so almost a third of these people were children um two-thirds of the victims were classified as african-american mr mugs the champion chimpanzee was also killed oh uh it's really fucking sad all of it the military who's the one do we know who the one was that like killed mr mugs i don't know because someone had to do it and like he didn't know whether or not he should drink the flavored right or did they just hand him a cup well apparently they said

he did whatever jim jones told him to so maybe he was like drink this fun water i don't know shit okay makes me sad makes me really sad um so yeah uh mr muggs was also killed the military came in the following days and there are these like as you mentioned these horrifying pictures of just bodies hundreds and i mean almost a thousand bodies on the ground like it's just a mass mass tragedy it's it's really horrific um there was one elderly woman named hyacinth thrash who this is a great line she either slept through the whole thing or hid under her bed to discover everyone dead the next day holy shit that is we should have done a story where she was the main character and we just wrote the whole story around what she'd been doing the whole time.

TM, TM, TM. TM, TM, TM, TM. It's just called Heisensnap. And she wakes up and she's like, what happened? It's on Discovery or TLC or something. And it's just like, instead of like, you know, strange addiction, it's like, I just slept all day. And then I woke up to a really bad scene

i just love that like they don't know if she did it on purpose or if she just fell asleep i i think it'd be like i didn't know i was pregnant but it's like yes i didn't know how fucking exhausted i was i didn't know everyone around me was dying by mass suicide yikes oopsies oopsies um so the u.s air force was sent in to clear the bodies um in a new york times article in 96 hyacinth remembers jim jones saying uh or sorry hyacinth remembers that jim jones was nice at the time and revealed that he urged her to sell her indianapolis home for 35 000 and then give him all the proceeds okay yeah and then on uh the night of the suicide when jim jones called everyone to the pavilion she said she refused to go declaring to her sister

that she was sick of jim jones wow i love her hyacinth is my hero yeah she probably was like another one of these drills like i'm like so tired of off-brand Kool-Aid flavor grape. Can we get some cherry in the mix? Come on. Just wake me up when there's like a blue raspberry situation. Yeah. Oh, my God. A couple other people did survive, including Jim Jones' son, Stephen.

And in a weird turn of events, days before the arrival of Congressman Ryan Stephen and the Jonestown basketball team had left for the capital of Guyana, Georgetown, to play a series of games against the Guyanese national squad. And according to Stephen, his father, Jim Jones, was really nervous and was like, I don't want them to leave because they might turn against the religion. But Stephen said he believes his mother kind of knew what was going to happen and was trying to help him get out by sending him and the basketball team out of town got it that's kind of a weird fact um and there was another lady who was an original member but she didn't make it down on time quote unquote for the suicide and to this

to the day she died she said i wish i would have been there with my colleagues to have committed suicide with them end quote holy shit so like someone out there still believes everything yes which also sounds like heaven's gate where they still maintain the website and are like no no my colleagues are out there and i can't wait to join them like same thing i thought she was gonna be like you know starring in the tlc episode of i didn't know how late i was i missed my flight yeah but no okay so wow she is one of a kind regretful yeah um so despite this being called a mass suicide there's a lot of deliberation uh understandably so over whether this is actually a massacre or a mass murder rather rather than a suicide right because um it basically boils down to jim jones like forcing this upon his members because he didn't want people to know what was going on inside his community well some of them were certainly murder murders if they were being

stabbed with it so exactly exactly and according to the new york times the first trained uh medical official on the scene was the guyanese coroner and he and his assistants examined over a hundred of the bodies and he found that the adults had all been injected with cyanide in places which they could not have reached without assistance such as between their shoulder blades and many of them had also been shot so this is over a hundred of the 900 so who knows how many there were that were forced into this so that means like on some level like almost a tenth of them at least kind of knew that this wasn't right and they all wanted to leave we're against this idea yeah which is horrifying um so one of the first u.s soldiers named charles huff on the scene also reported

having seen seen many gunshot victims um as well as victims who had been shot with a crossbow who appeared uh to have been attempting to flee oh my god and the coroner also felt that children were incapable of consenting to suicide so that eliminates them from the equation understandably so and they were almost a third of the group. Wow. And so based on these findings, the coroner speculated that the majority of those who died may have been murdered rather than have died by suicide. And so despite Guyana requiring an autopsy for any unnatural death, the Americans insisted that the cause of death was readily apparent. So they didn't need any additional inquiry yep uh and for a number of reasons the bodies weren't flown out uh for up to

a week and then the bodies were so decomposed it was really difficult to they couldn't find any like injection marks at that point so it just was off the table that that was even something they could count um so there's some weird speculation as far as like the cia being involved so the day that congressman ryan was killed his top aide joe holsinger uh who later became head of the dnc received a white house call detailing the exact number of people killed based on a cia report from the scene which is weird because like nobody arrived until the next morning so the fact that he had gotten a call that day was very odd um according to a 1980 washington post article a cia agent may have witnessed leo ryan's assassination as well as the murder suicides wow um and then

congressman ryan's lawyer said he plans to prove that the State Department and the CIA possessed vital information about the Jonestown situation and were aware of the extreme danger involved in Ryan's ill-fated fact-finding mission so they believe the CIA knew this could happen I I believe that the CIA would have gotten involved after the fact because like this was at the at that time like one of the biggest travesties of the country right but like yeah for to for them to have already had some sort of intel yeah that's disturbing yeah and apparently on the death tape you can hear jones jim jones himself barking the instruction about 20 minutes in saying get dwyer out of here before anything happens to him

and then he says i'm not talking to you daryl i said dwyer which i love but apparently investigators say the reference was to richard dwyer who was deputy chief deputy chief of the u.s mission in guyana who was part of congressman ryan's party to jonestown um so they're saying that jim basically was like okay get him out of here keep him safe and they think he was in on it or knew about it um and when they asked him he said if he had worked for the cia uh he said no comment so that's an odd comment oh shit okay um so there's just a lot of weirdness and like, obviously conspiracy theories. Uh, after, so this is kind of just like a, a summary here about episode one. You basically, your take on this whole thing was that if you were to leave this plane,

this planet earth, the last thing you would want to drink, uh, would not be flavored. And I still concur with you on that one i also concur with myself even you said i'd like a glass of wine uh and i said yeah a valium and a glass of wine is how i'd like to go as well i well i do have uh uh i've said it many times but i'm like if i haven't drank yet like my tolerance is so low that like if i knew if i saw that the apocalypse was like within 24 hours was going to happen i'd get obliterated and it wouldn't take very long and that way i wouldn't have to even like know what was going on i sometimes think that i'm like

i would just take a bunch of like i would just be like where's heroin give it to me i don't know where is it i would need something so much i'd'd be like, where's a Smirnoff Ice? Where's Mike's Hard Lemonade? Where's my wine cooler? I can't. And for us, they would be the same level of fuck up ability. I'd be on heroin and you'd be on Mike's Hard and we'd be like, goodbye, cruel world. I really do think if I found out that like i was gonna die in 24 hours

i'd be like i'm see you at the bar then i'm getting fucked up i'd be there waiting for you so don't worry anyway that is the story of jonestown and i know this is the longest episode maybe in history but uh i think you know it was worth it it's fine we had to do justice to episode number one we really did i i don't think you know i think for as long as it was like look y'all last week told us that you didn't mind the long episode so ta da this is your fault uh no i think it's it's a an homage of sorts so yeah but no i i i think you did a great job also in the middle of you telling the story i remembered the movie that i had probably mentioned last time in the first episode I don't remember what it was called but I don't think it was a documentary I think it was like a

movie retelling of it oh you called it a documentary and then you said well I guess it wasn't really a documentary but I don't know because the only scenes I remember are like scenes of it actually happening and what you said that jogged my memory was that people were like getting stabbed with the needles and I remember that's actually what you brought up in episode one where i hadn't really realized that or it wasn't even in my notes and you were like that's you were like i'm about to blow your mind and then you told me that fact well look a year later i'm still blowing my own mind because like i i remember that scene of like watching people like struggling and not wanting it and then like a bunch of people holding them down while another person injected it and they're just like

i just remember screaming it was really terrible it's all horrific and i think the biggest travesty is like the number of children that were unwittingly like brought here and i remember a scene where like the mom was like talking to her kids and like god damn it pretending like saying like oh we're just going to sleep like it was really terrible god i mean it's just bad um well look i think last time we uh we finished out these stories we said that like hopefully our moms listen one day and pretend to like it so and then you i texted that to my mom and she's like oh well i still don't listen and i was like yeah thanks i know my mom doesn't either she. She listens every now and then. And I can tell that she isn't caught up because she'll be like, I didn't know that you're

doing this this week. And I'm like, I did that eight months ago. But so I guess some things just don't change. But it's nice to know that more people than just our moms ended up listening. So first of all, before we close, I do want to say thank you to cast for giving me such a nice spooky setup seriously it's beautiful it's very very nice and if you have been to our live shows which again we're trying to keep very very private except now you guys know the daddy thing which probably brings out a lot of allure everyone's trying to return their tickets now uh but if if you have been to our show or if you've seen pictures um of the stage before our

show then you know that this is uh inspired off of our tour that we are currently not on but uh you cast did a very good job so i want to say thank you um also cast thank you to everybody who has made 200 episodes possible holy shit i know it's so mind blown every time i think about it there are some people um only like this morning who on twitter are like posting like that they were on like their spotify like spotify list and they're like i've been listening since day one so there are some people who've literally listened to 200 episodes not including listener episodes like so 250 episodes wow and uh so just it means a lot thank you to all of you and especially to farmer bob makes my heart swell and farmer bob and thank you em i feel very very

honored and blessed that you still are you know wanting to be by my side despite all of my flaw my many flaws stop it no i can't believe and it's in 200 episodes we have uh learned a whole lot about each other and done a whole lot of things i never thought would happen yes and wow we just what what a what a story for the grandkids i know i mean if it all ends today like we still have quite a tale to tell so if it all ends today i'll catch you at the bar and i'm getting all right on my wine cooler i'll go go to Bobby Mackey's. It's only 15 minutes from my house. Perfect.

I'm going to go see you there. And also after this, I'm going to text you Farmer Bob's phone number. So I can't wait for a three way call. Anyway, thank you, everybody, so much for everything. And that's it. We'll see you next week for our usual bullshit. Yeah. Damn.

I still don't know how to close these out after 200 episodes. We still don't. Yeah, it's never going to happen. So don't get your hopes up. All right. Well, and? That's. Why.

We. Drink. Yay.