And That's Why We Drink - E213 A Trashy Bunny and the Podcast Built on a Thousand Demons

Episode Date: March 7, 2021

Excuse me, Spotify? We'd like to submit our podcast for a new category, that will only include us, called "Podcasts Built on a Thousand Demons". We anxiously await your response. In the meantime, Grandpapa Emothy is bringing us a wild haunting from Connecticut in the Trial of Arne Cheyenne Johnson, also known as the "Devil Made Me Do It" case. Then Christine takes us to England for the chilling White House Farm Murders. And in case you've ever asked that age old question, "when will I ever need to know math in the real world?", we've got an answer for you and it's apparently while telling ghost stories... and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Calm is offering a special limited time promotion of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at CALM.COM/DRINKVisit athleticgreens.com/DRINK and get your FREE year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs today!Right now, you can get $75 off your first order at Burrow.com/DRINKUse coupon code DRINK for $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.comGo to Flexfits.com and use code DRINK for 20% off Flex Disc Starter Kits—or 10% off your first Flex Cup—PLUS free U.S. shipping!

all right miss christine hi hi are you are you are you well you've got your little trashy classy situation on your head i do i thought you'd notice i'm so pleased that you saw my headband that this is the one that that prompted the initial trashy classy comment the beginning of it all the beginning of the end and the end of the beginning well uh i i'm always going to notice when you've got your little weird cloth cloth bunny ears so that's they're very cute you very look like a cute little trashy bunny i i love to be a trashy bunny especially with easter approaching my catholic upbringing really works you know it's seamless really um

but i mostly use them when i don't this is not an ad i don't know why i'm talking like it is but i mostly use them when i don't wash my hair which is like often on almost every day these are the real ads it's like the easter bunny is coming to town. So I'm their cousin, Trashy Buddy. And I don't take showers. This is how we used to do ads until every company was like, stop calling us trashy and stop comparing us to the Catholic Church. None of this is what we want you to say. No, my sweet little bunny. It's very nice to see you.

I missed you yesterday. I feel like we talked a lot and I didn't see your face enough. So, yeah, you we had a meeting and Em was just like, I don't know how to turn on my camera. So you were kind of voice of God in the background the whole time. I really couldn't figure it out. We were using a different meeting. There's like a million of them nowadays. I mean, whatever. We all miss you. Em painted a beautiful picture saying, oh, I'm in a don't worry. I'm in a white robe with the sun setting behind me. I added a cigar for my own, um, for my own taste. And it was beautiful. You painted a picture in my mind. So thank you. Thank you. I really,

I wanted everyone to still feel like I was above them. Um, in some way I, you know, you couldn't, you couldn't see me, but I was going to make sure you could see something. Right. And so there, there comes that illustration. I did see something. Yes. I, was it like a nightmare or a vision of you running forever? Yeah. It was a lot of night terrors in my sleep. Yeah. I wanted to thank you. I'm sorry. I keep, I feel like I'm keep interrupting. You're welcome. Something really wise and sageful, but yeah. Um, I wanted to thank you for those of you who don't know, Christine surprised me and Eva with a literal bouquet of donuts

at each of our doors. I'm sitting here going, what are you thanking me for? I didn't send a plunger this week. I don't think. No, but that plunger has come in use so much in terms of being my new door knocker on the ceiling.

No, no, no. We've got other plungers. But no, because Trey songs has right needed a stern talking to and he's gotten it on the business end of this plunger by me doing a little ceiling tapping so very powerful you're you're just full of weekly presence and anyway i wanted to thank you publicly that those donuts were some of the best donuts i've ever had oh really um i'm glad you liked your uh donuts i was kind of annoyed that they didn't uh ship from la to kentucky so i didn't get any donuts but i'm living vicariously i'm pleased

that you like them i have never heard of a donut bouquet before so i'm glad it worked out thank you anyway i wanted to beat you to the punch before i forgot and that is why i drank this week is that you treated me to some fine gifts recently and I feel very loved so thank you oh well you are very loved I feel like ever since I left town I have to prove it all the time to you guys not because you asked me to but because I feel uh insecure that I left you I mean if the result is a box of donuts every week I'll let you feel like shit that's okay you're gonna keep like letting me believe this horrible truth about myself oh christine i don't feel loved what to do send me another toiletry object why do you drink this week oh thank you for asking i actually don't

drink this week because i am going on a road trip today oh right yes i'm so excited about this tell me yeah i'm going driving all the way to lexington kentucky uh an hour half south of me to get my big old needle in the arm covid vaccine i'm soentucky uh an hour half south of me to get my big old needle in the arm covid vaccine i'm so excited i got an email a few days ago and they were like you have like a window of two hours to snag your spot and i jumped in picked uh it was the only day they had was our day of recording so i'm sorry i've been like aggressively rushing you guys i feel like in weird texts like no i'm leaving honestly we we as a unit need this because do you know how many times we've started beyond like late is even a word at that

point no i know now we're like we've already got through our ads and everything and it's we're 23 minutes usually we start at 10 it's 10 23 like this is pretty good this is actually honestly pretty amazing and i felt like i was being kind of um aggressive about it uh but thank you i'm very excited um initially i was going to go down by myself and it's an hour and a half drive there then you have to get the shot then i guess they watch you for a half hour then you have to drive back and my shot isn't until 6 40 so it was going to be really late but my sister's coming over to watch geo blaze and i are driving down little road trip little couple bonding while i probably have a fever in the

passenger seat and um as you gain a a love for the taste of flesh as yeah some people might think that's right as i take over the state of kentucky and uh become a monster yeah uh so i'm very excited i get my i'm as knows, I'm terrified of needles. And I get needles in my arm constantly, like I did Monday for Remicade. And I'm just fulfilling my prophecy of surrounding myself with my worst fear over and over again. It's your calling.

I feel for you when it comes to the fear of needles. I'm terrified of needles. And apparently, Allison didn't know that until way late in our relationship. I didn't know that about you oh i'm so beyond i oh yeah if i were to get like a like a wildly invasive surgery the thing i would care about the most is getting the like the initial needle to fall asleep yeah that's always my thing when i go to a place i have to be like i want you to understand that like i need you to like for my wisdom teeth i cried for days i didn't give a shit about the actual surgery i sobbed about the fucking um iv and i got one the other day on my hand and it still hurts it's bruised

as you can see and um it's like now i've been having this thing this remicade for 11 years now and um still every single couple every eight weeks i'm uh petrified and uh well it's really terrible to be fair i i feel like even if you didn't have a fear of needles before like just getting something like that every x amount of days for your entire life is just gonna cause an issue with needles think but everybody says like oh well you'll get used to it because you know at a certain point you just have to give up and sort of but not really i'm still terrified but anyway yeah sorry so that's a derail but yes uh covid vaccine very excited blaze has already been vaccinated so we're

gonna be hopefully a somewhat safer household nice well yeah rj has been vaccinated he's gotten through both uh oh good wow shots already i don't know how i don't know how it works but apparently in california maybe this is all over but it feels like a very california thing that he's a lifeguard during the summer and so that that makes him a frontline worker which i don't understand but I was like very beach yeah beach oriented I was like okay that sounds very Santa Monica um can you imagine if I told Lexington Kentucky I'm a lifeguard they'd be like please go home it's snowing outside well he also so he still has to work um and he works with kids and I guess since the aha that's a big one too yeah i guess since the because he's a like a first grade swim coach on top of being a lifeguard he's like a jack of all swimming trades but so i mean i guess since

the pandemic started they've been doing like remote it's been the funniest thing in the world christine remote swim lessons with six-year-olds stop it it. So on Zoom, they'll like, you know, like float around. Oh my God. It sounds like a scene from Barney. RJ is the front line Barney. Yeah. The new purple dinosaur that everyone needs. Yeah.

So they like fake tread in water or something. He also has been really good about, because he also does a whole lot of like manifestation videos and things like that so he's like he'll do like little workshops with the kids where they sit there and close their eyes and imagine they're in the pool and imagine they're gonna be there last time the sweetest thing ever and you can hear all these little six-year-olds go bye coach rj stop it very sweet so okay i would run over there with and stab him in the arm myself so i understand now why california said sir get in the front of the line i think they're trying to start up the the classes in real life so that's why he had to yeah working with kids is definitely

like up there in the first phases i think yeah anyway sorry that was another derail welcome to and that's why we drank where we just derail every five seconds this is the last this is the first non-q anon episode in like a month oh my god that Christine I'm first of all the influx of just kind words from everyone after my q anon uh you did a great job people were on into it thank you I really appreciate I really worked hard to make sure i didn't offend anybody um while we actually are talking about q anon i have a little bit of an announcement which i'm not in q and you're joining you it really sounded like you were doing q anon surprise you convinced yourself no i've been thinking about i haven't seen anyone complain

about this but like i kind of think it's a matter of time if I don't address it. So I'm just going to do it now. And for good reason, by the way. But I realized that in the midst of doing a first of all, in in being a kind person in general and someone who I like to think is pretty empathetic, I should have been more aware of it before, but after doing the QAnon episodes, I'm realizing it was just very tasteless of me that during all this London Fog nonsense we've been bringing up, people are calling it the London Fog cults. And I would like to rebrand us because I've had my time in the limelight as a cult leader. And it's been fun. My turn. It's been fun.

But I think we need to do a little hmm judging if you will yeah i get you some brand uh brand what's the word restructuring i don't know yeah anything anything that sounds really professional that's a marketing term i'm sure um and so a revamping maybe revamp yeah that's the one and so uh i've decided i've been i've been flirting with a bunch of other um group names and just i just want to avoid cults just because i have just discussed for the last several weeks like you know there's a lot of victims of cults out there to be fair i called it a cult too so i apologize if that was um setting the train in motion i think neither of us were really aware of what was going on i think i was just so excited that people were listening to me about the world's greatest drink but so i have

decided on the london fog society and that's so classy i know it sounds so swanky i feel like we should all get membership cards by the end of this yeah you all gotta have your pinky up when you're drinking your london fog well i'll have like a little lapel pin at our chapter meetings by a by a smoky fireplace oh yes your cigar can come back your white robe can come back beautiful oh listen i i circulate that that robe in and out of my life in many ways. I see. I need to look like a presence. Very versatile accessory, yeah.

I'm saying. So anyway, the London Fog Society is how we shall now be named furthermore. Furthermore? Is that how you use that word? Here unto furthermore we shall be called. Thus the end. Your founding father emothy um but yeah so if you are to um be spreading the good news uh i i would suggest that you refer to us from now on as the society

don't even have to add london fog society in there if you don't want just the society actually i recommend you just call it the society because i think that alone has its own mystere you know i love it because then you can tell people like oh i'm part of the society never heard of it oh no no it's it's too it's too grandiose to talk about here not here not now not here not now yeah and then you can you can take your robe and go whoosh and turn around you know i'm so glad i like painted a picture of me in a robe one time. I can't stop thinking. I like that I got you a tie-dye robe and instead you're just envisioning yourself in a white, glorious, godly robe. Yeah, they're two different types of parties.

Got it. Yeah. The tie-dye ones when you're chasing down the ice cream truck. That's my after hours robe. That's a party robe. Oh, it's a emothy at night. Anyway, oh my gosh. So there you go.

We're part of the society now. Welcome. Am I part of it? Yeah. Yeah, you've been drinking Lennon Fogs. Yeah, you sounded a little unsure of yourself there. I forgot that you had been drinking Lennon Fogs, but then I remembered you are obviously part of the society.

I drank them before there was a contest, okay? I went and had one in your i walked through snow you sure did grandpa by their feet both ways to get my my classy london fog with oat milk okay just like grandfather did grandpapa in the olden days i you know what i like to think in terms of the london fog society i am everyone's grandpapa. Grandpapa Amethy. You're certainly my Christopoulos' grandpapa. Okay. Well, anyway, that is my only announcement.

I just wanted to, you know, zhuzh things up. I don't want to be making fun of anyone or anything like that, so. Oh, Christine? Yeah. Oh. I'm on board. You just sat so still. It was like I was in a haunted movie with a doll.

You were like, this has never happened. Christine, stop moving and stop speaking. Something is very wrong. I was just trying to tell myself to stop interrupting the flow of the episode. Clearly, I've just created a whole new disruption. I apologize. My heart stopped. I was like, I'm to like hear a little girl giggle or something it's very creepy my eyes glassed over like doll doll eyes yeah i apologize um i was just kind of uh leaving open a window for you to tell me your story for today thank you that's the first in four years

between either of us but i appreciate it we let the let the other talk. Yeah, isn't that fun? No, it's not. Apparently it's terrible. It doesn't work. No, I appreciate you trying not to interrupt me as I regularly interrupt you. I'm so sorry about that. Okay, so my story this time is a paranormal story. So everyone can relax for a second. I'm not going to talk about like your personal loved ones anymore. This is from 1981 is in Brookfield, Connecticut. If you are from that area, you might know the story I'm about to cover. And it sounds like it's a true crime. It is actually a demonic story. This is the trial of Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, aka the devil made me do it case what okay i'm so

excited aka the demon murder trial aka the brookfield demons case holy shit why can't we all just ever settle on one goddamn name never things anyway so this is uh 1981 brookfield connecticut and at this point brookfield, Connecticut had been around for 193 years, had never had a homicide. What? Wow. They're apparently at this time or around this time, the papers were like raving like it's been 193 years without a homicide.

That's called it. You're jinxing it, friends. Yeah, someone should have knocked on some wood. Also, it's funny that that's how they're phrasing it because that's like me being like 28 years without a homicide over here it's like well it's been almost 10 decades since i murdered anyone also why why are you celebrating on year 193 why why didn't you pick like three years earlier or you were so close to 200 years you couldn't maybe they just had a feeling because can you imagine you get so close to 200 then someone murders someone you're like well we couldn't have the parade is off tell the mayor to go home that's an excellent point actually

someone was like we're getting too close to dangerously i like how they held up for 193 years though they were like something is hmm something's afoot we might as well go for it so uh anyway so february 16th uh there was a 19 year old named arnie johnson who went by cheyenne and uh i think that was just like a family nickname or something so uh february 16th 19 year old cheyenne stabbed his landlord multiple times with a pocket knife um his landlord's name was alan bono and alan died later in the hospital oh no um cheyenne was arrested and eight months later he pled not guilty by virtue of demonic possession sure sure sure sure sure which was the first time in u.s history that this defense was used. You don't say. This is not to be confused, by the way,

with the other story of Elvazona Heaster, which we have covered before, where she was the, she had already died and with her, through the Ouija board, she like helps her mom find her murderer or something like that. So when people hear the devil made me do it or anything along those lines,

it sounds a lot like I know who my murderer is case or they just get kind of combined. So that is not the same story. Elvizona Heaster is a different story there. So Cheyenne's attorney, his name was Martin Manilla. And when they decided to use this demonic possession defense, Martin Manilla said the courts have dealt with the

existence of god and now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil so just to give you some background arnie was 19 he was known as cheyenne by his friends and family he had a 26 or 27 year old fiance named debbie glatzel and And Debbie is another big part of this story. So in July, the year before the couple had recently signed a lease for a rental property from Alambono. And apparently they were super in love. They actually met when Arnie was a kid. He was 12 and had like a crush on her. She was older than him. And I think Debbie actually became friends with his mom. And so she was always around and he says it was love at first sight and eventually when he got older he asked her out and

she said yes and uh they have been together ever since apparently it's a little touch and go because arnie was 16 and she was 23 but we're gonna ignore that because they are still in love to this day at least and when he was 12 she was like 20 19 i think and so and she was like not about it when he was 12 right to be fair but yes yes but she was about it when he was 16 so right i don't know i don't know what you want to do with that information they ended up being very much in love and are still together, I think. So it worked out in this case. So eventually they found this rental property and it needed some maintenance though. So the family was regularly going over and they were going to start cleaning. I think this day happened to be, it depends on the reports. There's a lot of like, the details are sort of muddled. So I don't know if it was just the couple and Debbie's little brother or if the mom was also there.

It doesn't really totally matter. But so Cheyenne and Debbie went over to the rental property to start cleaning it up a little bit. I'm pretty sure Debbie's mom was there and Debbie's little brother David were there. So I don't know how weird this is supposed to be. It was like a random fact that i saw and i don't it doesn't become like a big detail but i guess for the sake of spookiness it was supposed to be spooky um i guess the previous tenants left a bed sitting in the middle of the master bedroom the entire place was completely empty but a random bed was still sitting in a room. And it only felt eerie and

creepy. Once I watched there's a like a dramatic reenactment of this story on this show haunting a haunting. And all of a sudden, the bed became like the spookiest thing in the fucking world. Beforehand, I totally ignored that fact. But if you watch the if you watch the haunting episode about this, you will see that there was a little I think artistic license used in the story. You don't. So while they were there cleaning, they asked David to go clean in the bedroom where there was that bed. And suddenly David got pushed onto the bed. And he said that the old man in that room pushed him. Oh, and no one else was there uh-huh okay i was

like we don't know that man right okay we don't know about that man apparently nobody was there but david swears that an old man pushed him onto the bed and the man apparently had a plaid shirt that was torn at the elbow and he had jeans and david said that the man pointed at him and said beware he said that he was going to hurt the family if they moved onto the property. And when David ran to tell Cheyenne and Debbie about this, they just thought he was like trying to get out of helping clean. So they were like, OK, whatever, like go out in the yard. It's a very Evan Christine move. No, you don't understand.

There's a ghost. I'm going to sit outside in my robe. And Eva's like, please leave. Please leave the premises. I can't stand this. i've been trying to get you to leave for hours please finally get out of here so uh that night apparently david actually saw this guy again when they got home so like i don't it followed them home oh at their oh god yeah so they've been staying at debbie's mom's house while they're cleaning out the rental property. So their version of home right now is Debbie's mom's house. Right.

So they were all there, and David, the little brother, saw this man again. And this time he said the man was starting to look different. So he was already shifting into something else. Apparently he had burnt-looking skin, and he was barefoot. And this time he spoke Latin. And he said said beware he said he was going to take david's soul like all the classics um and soon david started calling him the beast and started seeing him throughout the day so it wasn't even just like a creepy thing at night it was happening all the time um apparently david said that he could see the beasts quote big black eyes thin face with animal features jagged teeth pointed

ears horns and hoofs uh-oh hoofs hooves hooves hooves hmm eva I thought hooves. It behooves you to say hooves. Hooves. It behooves me to say behoove. Wait a minute. All of it's wrong. All of it's wrong. Okay. We don't know this language very well. It's okay. So, uh, yeah, so he started, the beast man kept finding him and saying, beware. Uh, don't, you know, move on the property. i'll hurt your family and david very quickly started changing from a very bubbly happy kid to quiet and anxious oh at the same time they started hearing noises from the attic that were unexplained but you never hear anything more about that so i don't know how that plays into things maybe that was completely irrelevant um but there started to be scratches and bruises all over david's body when he was

going to sleep at night so it was like these injuries were just showing up when he wasn't even causing them and he was now starting to wake up every 30 minutes and have seizures and uh he was also having really terrible nightmares and the family basically had to start taking shifts staying up with him or trying to hold him down because he would start fighting in his sleep. How old was he at this point? Do we know? He's 12. Okay, wow, that's terrible. He would start he started spitting on them. He started kicking them. He started biting the

family. He tried to apparently attack his grandma with a knife, according to one report. And he regularly was acting like he was being choked or stabbed by something that they couldn't see. Oh, geez. So that's pretty terrible. Yeah. Here's a quote. That one time he looked, quote, strangled by invisible hands, which he tried to pull from his neck. And powerful forces flopped him rapidly, head to toe like a rag doll.

Oh. So he told his family what was going on he was telling his mom about this and his mom judy said uh said quote i believed him instantly i've read about the supernatural i've heard the warren's lectures and when he first explained it i thought it was a ghost so she's on top of it she's like like right away she was like all i need to hear is half of that information and i'm on board to get you help old man i'm in uh-huh yep you said there's not not a man near my house no no um and so david's parents went to their pastor and the pastor tried to help i think they did like some blessings around the house or something but eventually they said there's

nothing we can do here you should call the warrens so and lorraine warren hopefully you know who they are by now but they're um a very famous power couple let's call them i would say power couple definitely um ed is a demonologist and lorraine is a clairvoyant and together they have gone on some of the most intense supernatural cases to try to help however they can so are they still alive no they're they've both passed okay but they also happen to live nearby brookfield connecticut so i think they were kind of relatively close so they could just pop on over um because they're from monroe connecticut i think that's right yeah so they called the warrens and they called the war the Warrens 12 days from the first event.

And apparently only 12 days in, it was just, like, awful. Yeah, that's fast. So Lorraine was quoted saying, we were contacted by the family who believed the weird phenomena that was surrounding their child. And here's where it gets kind of weird, too, because later I'm going to get into the shadier part of the Warrens, just because a lot of people think that their credibility isn't 100 percent. And that goes for most of their cases. There's a lot of skeptics.

Right. And one of the things that people are skeptical of this time is that apparently Debbie and her mom Judy were like big fans of the Warrens and so it's not a good look yeah it sounds like they were just willing to to agree to whatever the Warrens were saying like they had especially when she was like right away I was like it's a ghost uh-huh yeah he's not having real seizures it's a ghost call Lorraine and and that quote of her she said like I have seen the Warrens' lectures and all that. Right. So they apparently were just like a Warren fan family.

So it doesn't really help that they were probably just willing to believe whatever the Warrens had to say. Sure. So in an initial visit with the Warren family, Lorraine said that she saw, quote, a black misty form next to David. Soon the child was complaining that invisible hands were choking him and there were red marks on him. He said that he had the feeling of being hit. David would be doodling and he'd be concentrating and then he would look up and he would no longer be an 11-year-old boy.

Ooh, okay. So that was like on their first goddamn visit, apparently, that he was just like, his face was contorting in front of them and only she could see it oh and judy said that she thought originally it was a ghost but ed and lorraine i guess educated her later that it actually wasn't a ghost that he was being afflicted by so the warrens told the washington post the washington post by the way had like the longest article on this i could find so oh interesting shout out to the washington post um the warrens told that paper that quote ghosts after all are

small potatoes in the supernatural scheme of things which oh i like i'm down with the small potatoes i don't need to know anything else i small potatoes keep me down here um sad little spirits that somehow haven't crossed over properly lingering on in the material world close to old associations sometimes mischievous rarely malevolent this was different the spirit infesting david glatzel is inhuman and evil so i guess if they if his face was contorting and they saw a shadow figure behind them or whatever they were like okay this is no bueno this is saw a shadow figure behind them or whatever they were like okay this is no bueno this is no longer a sad little human or whatever they call the ghost

this this ain't no small potatoes oh i love small potatoes so i do too you and i let's stick with that yeah yeah let's let's stick with the all the walters and uh all the small of the potatoes the starches this yeah walter does sound like if it had to be a type of food it would be a starch absolutely so the gin is gin is isn't gin a starch oh my god i'm just making shit up but i think it is hang on a second that's we're on to something here is gin a okay the internet's like, what does this mean? Okay, well, vodka is... Corn, right? A starch.

This is like the worst home ec class. Home ec? Yeah, here's what vodka is for kids. Or 4-H or whatever kind of class this would be. But no, it's... I don't know. I know that booze is made of starch. So, you know, I'm close enough.

Okay, so booze is made of starch. Ghosts like'm close enough okay so booze is made of starch ghosts like booze ghosts are potatoes ghosts are starch and like their starch that's fine like 4h and uh algebra i'm pretty sure we're biologists now did you hear that happen yeah i heard regular biologists 100 100%. My brain unlocked something. I heard it happen. Anyway. I think it was just snapping, but yeah, I guess. It was just my soul clawing to leave my corn husk behind. Leave your husk behind.

Oh, boy. The Warrens went to Brookfield to investigate, obviously. They apparently brought along a guy named reverend francis vergelich and uh ed ed warren claims that the that reverend vergelich and them had worked on previous cases together the catholic clergy cannot confirm this which also makes it interesting in terms of if you're on the skeptical side so they did three quote lesser exorcisms on David, which I guess are more deliverances versus exorcisms. And I'll explain later why they didn't do like an official exorcism. But they did three lesser exorcisms on David where at the time of these lesser exorcisms, they saw him levitating.

He stopped breathing at one point. He gave the names of 43 demons possessing him jesus 43 what an escalation from 12 days ago when you saw an old man and now there's 43 demons also the old man had jeans on like what happened he's not made of starch like the others i guess i guess not um there is another report that said that he was actually made up of 43 demons and two devils, which I found interesting that the devils and demons were different. Yeah, I'm clearly not equipped to teach this class anymore. So I'm stepping down. I'm not a numbers kind of person.

I'm more of a meat and potatoes kind of person. We're a big picture meat and potatoes kind of folk. we're a big picture meat and potatoes kind of folk uh but anyway because there were potentially 45 entities if you count the two doubles uh his mom judy anytime she referred to the entities in david she would call them they and they then pronouns hey um we're normalizing pronouns however we have to however we have however this if this is the angle that it takes if this is what gets you to pay attention we'll throw in 45 demons sure um but so apparently judy started referring to david as they because of all of these that's creepy though yeah so um that's why i call you they i know well i have more demons you're built of a

thousand demons i was gonna i was gonna make a comment about like skeletons in my closet or something but the the built on a thousand demons is just so grunge that is so seen oh my god i feel heard that was the name of my live journal uh in 2005 built on a thousand demons if you had if you were the person who had the aim screen i don't even know what the name is anymore a screen name a username if you had the screen name built on a thousand demons please god write us your entire autobiography and we will read it on the podcast i want to be your friend i bet it was zach bagans oh it was you're definitely right i tried to get it but he had it so i had to change the z the s to z um but i had the knockoff version obviously

ears was just built on a hundred demons oh yeah i was like the lesser yeah that's sad i was like the bargain bin version of uh the bargain a hill of demons um you are built with that that's why we use they them pronouns i know a lot of people don't really get it but i know because they're built on a thousand demons and two devils finally we can have this conversation i feel safe enough okay good good good good good so thank, good, good. So thank you. Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. I thought it's about time.

I kind of want to be known as someone. I kind of, like, that's such a badass. I feel like you get to be immediately a hell's angel or something. Absolutely. I think our podcast would, like, take over. Let's start this rumor, folks, that this podcast is built on a thousand demons. I want to get up in the charts like spotify has to create a new uh category for like featured podcasts that's just

called like podcast built on a thousand demons and it's just us that's like the category is just our podcast ten times in a row um a thousand and two oh right my bad okay so yes they david and his 45 friends um they frenemies yeah good point good point apparently david started in front of the war and started hissing he was having more seizures he was speaking in voices he apparently started quoting the bible a lot and he was also quoting passages from paradise lost which is very interesting. Creepy. I don't know what that means in terms of like demons and ghosts, but I can't do it. So that's true. I can't do any of that.

All of the above. So the family and the Warrens could also sense whenever, quote, the beast was about to take possession of David because, oh, this was a quote of how they could tell. His head would lower to his chest and he would slowly lift it. And when he did, his features would have contorted into a snarl. And there was nothing to be seen but the whites of his eyes. And then he would laugh a hideous laugh. Ugh. I mean, 12-year-olds are terrifying already. And now imagine that they look down for a second and

come back without pupils and they're cackling and their faces all twisted up nope no no no no nope i don't like that um end of story the end period the end um another quote about uh this time and are hanging out with david um uh quote they say the plates have levitated that rocking chairs have flown through the air and books moved mysteriously away and that a cake pan floated straight to the ceiling the beast has called up david's brother on the telephone and warned him to beware ew which means like ring, who could it be? And you don't have caller ID. You, it's just,

it's just your friends. Oh no. And to keep going with the quote, and Debbie says, she has been clawed by a mysterious green hand rising from the floor and attacking her

in her bed at night. Ugh. And she too has seen the face of the beast. Debbie has said, quote, I saw a face with jagged teeth and coal black eyes it had horns and pointed ears flashing lights appeared on the wall and then i heard my mother and cheyenne call my name so almost like she was also in a trance from this

thing yeah because all of a sudden she could hear people calling her name um there were some more boring instances i guess of the 45 living within him. Some of them just had to get the daily chores done because... Not everyone can be, yeah, the star of the show, I guess. Not everyone can be the beast. So apparently Judy, the mom, said that she would also experience random things like her clothes getting dumped out of her drawers

and cosmetics getting thrown on the floor. Just like really inconvenient situations. She also said that she would call them punks to their face. Like she would like scream at them about how they're being punks and she would tell them to go back to where she came from or where they came from. Okay. And apparently when David that one time was getting thrown around like a rag doll this was judy tried to defend david by saying he can't even do a sit-up leave him alone okay i'm starting to feel like this is personally attacking me um i'm starting to feel like i am

at risk if uh yeah i mean if allison saw my body getting thrown all over the place like i was a gymnast and and she knows what i'm capable of she'd be like something is very wrong yeah something and this body has never moved so quickly and so with such agility so limber why what's going on it must be many demons the only explanation minimum 40 maximum 50 i can't decide it's somewhere in there it's gotta be so one day when things were getting really bad during all this investigation with the warrens david all of a sudden predicted a murder would be coming soon oh that's nice okay i don't know how the details i don't know how specific it, I don't know how specific it was, but I do know that Cheyenne himself was very nervous. So I don't know if that means that Cheyenne was the one that he claimed

would be involved in this or whatever, but everyone, let's just say, was disturbed in a little bit. And actually after that lesser exorcism or whatever they were calling it, the Warrens did call the local police and they were like yo so this house is super dangerous and uh the kid that is probably possessed by a demon is now like screaming references about violent acts in the area so like just like be aware well that's why the freaking newspaper put out that article because they were like well we gotta do it now did you they were like we've got to pull this trigger we don't have much time the guy it's like christine listen i studied journalism i know

a thing or two okay not very much you know a thing or two about a thing or two you really just figured that out that makes so much sense now it's like that movie the post where it's exactly like the post what it's exactly like the post where he goes to his editor and he's like you gotta listen i don't know i haven't seen it i fell asleep on the plane while i was playing so i i'm not maybe the best person to reference it but i do like to think mark ruffalo went to Brookfield, Connecticut and was like, you got to listen. This is our moment. This child is predicting the future. And so the parade went ahead as, how many, seven years early.

It really, I mean, you really just blew my mind because that probably is exactly how it went down. Because it happened a few weeks before they called the police and warned them a few weeks before that it actually happened journalist was like i've been waiting to write this story my whole career and i gotta do it before my chance is over and that journalist was mark ruffalo and that or christine or christine's ancestor being like something about this feels like it's gonna surpass generations um okay wow well we've solved that fucking riddle haven't we okay what's next hmm uh oh yeah so the warrens did warn the police as we all know now and apparently the local press and uh the warrens do say that out after everything that happened and of those exorcisms there was a one report that said it was actually six exorcisms not three okay i'm gonna

stick with three because i saw that most i think oh or i think it was three but there were two priests at each which equals six priests it math i don't know why is this all about equations and formulas if i knew that i was gonna have to know this much math for fucking telling goat stories one day i would have paid attention um that's what they should say in algebra that'll get that'll get the youths you need to know how to count so you know exactly how many demons are inside you want a podcast you gotta learn some basic addition and also take a health class so you know about starch um so when the exorcism was over they called the police and the warns say that the biggest mistake that happened out of all of this was that um cheyenne who was involved in a lot of the lesser

exorcisms he started to challenge the demons inside david trying to coax them out of David. Uh-oh. And Cheyenne was apparently, he like was very protective of the family and he hated seeing David in pain. And so he was saying like, take me, I'm bigger, all this stuff. Also, this sounds very reminiscent of The Exorcist,

which Debbie and her family have also said they loved that movie. So I don't know what that means, but there you have it. But yeah, so Cheyenne kept saying, come into me, leave the little lad alone, which is precious. The little lad. The little lad. Okay.

And once while challenging these demons, apparently he said something like, I'm not afraid of you. I'll fight you. And David, who could see these demons uh said back to cheyenne they're laughing at you which is terrifying so can you imagine 45 how many was it 45 total can you imagine going around the room being like one two three four five six yeah okay they're all they're all laughing every single one of them you are the laughing stock of this room how sad you're a clown um so anyway after he challenged them nothing really happened but a few days later all of a sudden

cheyenne got in a huge car crash where he according to him lost complete control of the car and watched it drive itself into a tree oh god again if you're on the skeptical side of things you can be like okay he got in a car crash now he's blaming it on right related events um but he swears that like he was not in control of the car he tried to control the car and it yanked itself into a tree shortly after that um a few days later so he ended up being unharmed by the way but uh only a few days later him and debbie went back to the rental house and they were looking out the window. And Cheyenne, apparently, when he looked out the window, was looking in the direction of this well on the property. And apparently it was a well that the Warrens had told him not to go near because that was the well was one of the sites where David had seen the old man.

And because he had challenged the demons they were like you're too vulnerable right now don't go near any of the sites where david has seen any of these demons right so chan was on the property and just looking at a well but he wasn't near it but while he was looking at it he all of a sudden kind of fell into this weird trance that debbie remembers and i thought you're gonna say he fell into the well i was like how i thought he was okay okay he was just looking out the window rants his eyeline fell into the well i suppose okay um and he said there he is the beast there he is and all of a sudden he started growling and debbie started slapping him to try to get him out of this trance and he didn't react and so that is when

debbie remembers him all of a sudden also becoming possessed by this demon oh no apparently it was so cheyenne he said there he is there's the beast because he saw like the demon hiding in the well and according to cheyenne when their eyes met him in the demon's eyes in the well that was when he last remembers having like a clear autonomy a self-autonomy like autonomy for himself oh no right um I think so I don't know anymore sure so after that apparently he doesn't remember much but Debbie says that he started showing signs of possession specifically there were five really scary times um she didn't list all of them but she did say uh one time in the middle of the night he woke her up and stared at her and said go to bed yeah even though she was already in bed like you woke me up okay yeah exactly uh another time he oh and then after he said go to bed he got out of bed

and started hitting all of the furniture and yelling about hell. Another time they were at mass and he started freaking out about being there, which was very out of character for him. He was like very much a happy churchgoer. Another time Debbie heard two voices come out of his mouth at once. And that was the day that he killed Bono. So let's talk about that day um so their landlord was alan bono he apparently uh when they were looking for a rental property and he offered a space for them he also happened to manage a kennel and he and debbie was like oh

i'm looking for a job and so he she started working for him at the kennel while they also were cleaning out his rental property. Okay. And I guess he knew them. They were very good surface level friends where he would like take them out to lunch every now and then. So like even though Cheyenne didn't work for him, sometimes he would like call sick into work just so he could go visit Debbie. And then he would take them out to lunch and so things like that. could go visit debbie and then he would take them out to lunch and so things like that um and right around the time that cheyenne was showing all these signs of possession and growling and going into trances and not knowing who he was on february 16th in 1981 cheyenne called in sick to go visit

debbie at the kennel he brought his sister i think he also brought one of debbie's sisters and debbie's cousin because they all wanted to go since she worked at a kennel they all wanted to see the dog so i'm imagining this was just a precious scene and uh bono decided to take them all to lunch and this is off of the little sister's testimony so one of the girls who was there okay um bono took them to lunch depending on the report that you read uh either bono was drinking by himself or cheyenne was drinking with him and when they got back to the kennel bono was being belligerent and he grabbed one of the kids and i guess cheyenne got defensive and according to wanda the sister um she said that he didn't look like himself. She tried to, like, shake him to, like, kind of wake up from his, like, weird state. And he wouldn't move.

He just stared straight ahead and eventually just charged at Bono. Oh, my God. And apparently on him he had a five-inch pocket knife. And that's all. And then his sister remembers him just kind of staring off not reacting and walking off into the woods and she remembers seeing bono just standing there and then falling over and apparently he had stabbed him a lot and uh cheyenne's lawyer later said that there were quote five four or five tremendous wounds, including one that extended from the stomach to the base of the heart.

Oh, my God. Slice. Yeah, because you think of pocket knife, you think of like little Swiss Army, but five-inch pocket knife, Jesus. Yeah, it's basically five inches of knife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At that point, yeah, I guess you can put a butcher knife in your pocket too, but. Yeah, exactly.

So anyway, Cheyenne was arrested, and Bono ended up dying uh hours later in the hospital when he was arrested Cheyenne told cops that they were fighting over Debbie although there's no real proof of that um and the cops originally wanted to consider this an open and shut case but the Warrens heard about this and they said no no no like please look deeper into this especially since we warned you that there would be a death coming up in a town where there had never been a death before and i guess david confirmed that his vision was of involved the family somehow like knew that someone in his family was going to be involved in this death david apparently quote saw the beast go into

cheyenne's body and it was the beast who committed the crime so that was the the testimony they really fell into or leaned on right um and so the family told the police that Cheyenne had visited the well before the murder when he was told not to and his lawyer apparently tried to get Cheyenne a plea of not guilty by reason of demonic possession. So the lawyer, again, his name was Martin Manella, and he found two cases in England where possession had been used. Neither of them ever made it to trial, but he used those two cases as reasoning for why they could use it right now.

And Manella said, quote, I could put the Pope on you. I could put the pope on and he'd tell you that if a guy is demonically possessed he is not responsible and that was his big reasoning that's like a threat like a paramedic like i could bring the pope don't make me bring the pope in here exactly don't make me turn this car around and visit the vatican because he'll tell you don't you dick don't you fucking try it so uh the trial was on october 28th in 1981 and apparently uh the priests from these quote lesser exorcisms were supposed to be subpoenaed but the church ended up ordering them to not publicly discuss their practices love the church how they can just do anything ever that they want ever love it love it say it with me thanks priest thanks priest so the uh diocese of bridgeport uh or the area that they were near i guess they said that we're not going to say anything except that the priests did work with david during a difficult time that

was all that they said okay i've been to a catholic church in bridgeport connecticut said okay i've been to a catholic church in bridgeport connecticut have you maybe you maybe they know these maybe maybe i do they were like oh my god it's the trashy bunny run quick oh no she's back and it's easter sunday get her out of far far away no you're the trashy bunny comes on easter saturday and we all know that um so of the people in that church father nicholas grico um in the diocese of bridgeport this was his official statement quote the policy is not to speak to the press at this time it would be true of any situation of a pastoral nature no formal exorcism was ever asked for or performed no one from the church has said one way or the other what was involved and we declined to say apparently they their reasoning for never performing an official exorcism which

is what some people might be wondering is because apparently the bishop declined to authorize it because the family didn't consent to the psychological tests that the church would need but the family disputes that and says like we literally took him to a psychiatrist right good point good point good point good point um they apparently when they did take him to a psychiatrist all they found was that david had from what i can tell or from what i see in the reports a quote slight learning disability and trouble sleeping but i i don't i don't know what that's like less than you and I have and we don't I know I mean well I've I'm literally hello I have demons with a z so I don't really count but yeah you have

emotional demons I think certainly a lot of those that's for sure but so uh the family was like we took him to get psychological testing and I I'm not too sure of like the details on that but it sounds like they got the wrong psychological testing but the church'm not too sure of like the details on that but it sounds like they got the wrong psychological testing but the church wouldn't help them figure out what testing they needed to be able to get approved in the first place so uh weird that that was a weird argument also the warrens are disputing that um when father graco said no formal exorcism was ever asked or was ever asked for or performed the warrens were like no no we fucking asked for that like we wanted that yeah um and ed warren said that the priests did in fact

ask if they could do an exorcism and this is a quote from ed warren the two younger priests went directly to the bishop we have it on tape we hope that the priests will do what's right and come in and testify if they don't we will have to subpoena them to testify and we will have to use our tapes to prove it wow apparently that didn't work anyway they ended up not saying anything more but the police chief of uh his name is john anderson and he also wanted to speak to the priests during this investigation but and he does confirm that the warrens called him in advance to warn them about like this these references of violent acts from david oh wow and i mean he was really hell-bent on making sure that like this got taken seriously first of all it was the first homicide i kind of imagine as a police chief and like there's never

been a homicide in your town and now there is one you're like mother and it's not even just like oh somebody like a robbery a botched robbery it's like oh it's your first homicide and also it was because of a bunch of demons at a possession i mean damn he literally there's a quote from him where he said after like 193 years since the town has been established not a homicide and he goes we couldn't have a simple uncomplicated murder exactly like you couldn't even have just a straight like yeah black and white botched robbery situation nope well also this was like right this was a few years later but this was i think right around the time of the or was it it had to have been after the amityville right the amityville case was in the 70s yes which also makes me wonder sorry i didn't mean to

interrupt you there no it wasn't in the amityville didn't the defios like claim demonic possession and they're yeah or the didn't the boy say like he murdered his whole family because he was possessed by demons so is this not true and being the first maybe this is the first documented one well it was in the town not in the state right they're saying that this is the like the one of the town like the town or the u.s the national first time oh of demon oh sorry of demon possession you're saying i don't know we'll have we'll we'll have to look back at that i don't know what do you was that claimed in court like as the defense because didn't maybe he just claimed like insanity i think he that's probably maybe

what it was i don't remember at this point wow i really should know well it's been a long time since we've covered that since episode four was it four wow yeah uh okay well anyway yeah imagine being the police chief of a murderless town and now it's your it's on your shoulders and also it's full of demons apparently the story and the catholic church is involved i mean god and they're not helping and uh also because the amityville story had happened so recently and it was pretty nearby right he was terrified as the police chief that this was just their town was going to become the new amityville right and so he was like not only am i dealing with a murder which yes i'm probably well trained for but i've never had to deal with before also like i broke the the fucking good curse i suppose and now there's demons and now also like

people are flooding our town because they think it's new amityville especially because the warrens are involved yep so it was just not fun for him so he was really desperate he was like i want the priest to talk to me i want anyone to give me information because i'm at a loss here yeah um but so anyway that never happened and the last thing i want to say is that so martin manila the attorney and also the warrens were both mocked at different times for trying to sensationalize the story for their own gain the warrens have dealt with that a lot in their history um but also the attorney was guilty of doing that too he was just saying some really weird things where it just sounded like he didn't really care so much about the case maybe he cared about winning the case but he didn't really care about the family at all he was just like invested in the fact that this was

a wild story that would like really make his name get out there in terms of trying to defend uh cheyenne this was a quote of his why the devil decided to pick on alan bono as the instrument of arnie johnson's destruction think about it what's the guy's name bono right and what kind of name is bono italian right so what does bono mean in italian it means good and evil likes to destroy good apparently for him that means case fucking solved what it sounds a little q and on e of like let's just like connect all of these little things hang on there's a dot like 83 miles to the west let's just put a pin in that and then drag his red stirring all the way back here yep i mean that is okay sure all right he also wanted in during our in court he also

wanted people to uh examine alan bono's clothing because he thought quote the lack of any blood rips or tears would help support the claim of demonic involvement i wasn't there but i guarantee there were some rips in clothing and blood considering he was sliced from the stomach to the heart so i don't know what that guy was talking about there yeah or did he mean in the kids clothing i don't know i think he meant he wanted them to look at his clothing yeah bono's clothing in the victim's clothing so he was saying oh no a demon did it so he didn't ruin his clothes okay whatever uh he also said quote the wounds in alan bono's body were too deep for them to have been uh the work of human hands end quote so he was really pushing for like no no no this is demonic possession

and the judge ultimately rejected the plea because he quote any testimony on the matter was unscientific and thus irrelevant so cheyenne ended up getting convicted of first degree manslaughter and sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison he was released in five damn and lorraine warren um because if you've listened to me talk about some of her other cases she likes to rank her cases out of 10 in terms of scariness um and she ranked this 9.5 out of 10 oh shit wow because uh and the only thing that would have made it the only thing that would have made it a 10 is if there was another catastrophe apparently i think you're gonna say one more demon just like one short 46 is where i draw the line um but no so he she does have like a category like a some sort of ranking system and i guess very few of them ever hit in the eights or nines

because that requires like a true full body possession or a death. Something like that. I don't know the actual rankings, but nine is pretty hard to get. And this was a 9.5. That's yeah. So Cheyenne ended up marrying Debbie while he was incarcerated. And as of 2014, they were still together.

And Manila and the Warrens have both, again, again said some shady stuff i mentioned this earlier and prioritizing going to the press with the story manila has been quoted saying everyone is interested in this case everyone we got calls from australia from switzerland from england everywhere when i went to london they recognized me on the street all the top studios are interested in this all the top producers of course my position is that we won't talk to them until the trial is over my client is very important to me uh-huh okay okay slick and then lorraine warren which is not a cute look lorraine uh when asked about this she said will we have to write a book about this yes we will will we lecture about this yes we will and then asked if they were talking to movie producers she said no we're not our agents at william morris agency are shut up so okay all

right lorraine calm down and when challenged on selling books up and like you know profiting off of these families um she said quote why not inform the public in informing the public you are warning the public about trespassing in the supernatural. And then her husband said, instead of the church hiding facts, they should be yelling them from the rooftops. This low-key nonsense. I just can't stand it anymore. You mentioned demonology to a young priest and he almost grins.

We're bringing home the positive, the reality of God, because that is the other end of the spectrum. So I think that would have been a much slicker way to handle the situation let him speak next time because marion saying oh my wme agents are going to handle the movie producing is like not the greatest look for your uh validity it's not cute she ended up they ended up writing a book about it called the demon from connecticut and she said that the profits were going to be shared with the family but apparently only like two thousand dollars was given to the family and the book was republished in 2006 and david himself and his other brother carl sued for

quote violating the right to privacy libel and intentional affliction of emotional distress oh wow so there are some arguments that this was just the brother carl others say it's the brother david which makes this a lot more damning because david was involved in all this but um either way carl was definitely uh suing them and carl maybe david also said that the case was a hoax and the warren said that the book would make enough money to help cheyenne get out of jail and that's why she should write the book and that she would help them get to get Cheyenne out of jail Carl ended up writing his own book called Alone Through the Valley which was about his version of the events and the Warrens say that the priests involved the Warrens in response to getting sued they said that the priests involved believed that

the boy was possessed and that all the events were true and their author of their book called gerald brittle said that he had hours of interviews from the family proving that they wanted the story told and they agreed on the story before he ever sent it out cheyenne and debbie on the other hand defend the warrens as well saying that debbie's family is just suing for money but the possessions were completely true and they themselves were used as the main interviewers in that discovery channel episode of a haunting the two of them told their entire story then again that episode was wildly exaggerated and they like gave it the green light so i don't know what that tells you but david or judy or no one else was there it was just cheyenne and debbie telling

their side of the story and it did seem very dramatic. There's also two movies, one from the 80s called The Demon Murder Case, which stars Kevin Bacon and Andy Griffith. Oh, hell yeah. And this summer, the third spinoff of The Conjuring is going to be based on this story. Oh, my God, really? So it's going to be called The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It,

and it comes out in June. Ooh, it's got goose cam. That's creepy. The end. Wow. What is up with Connecticut, man? They are just haunted as hell. I mean, there's the haunting in Connecticut, the demon from Connecticut, next door is Amityville.

We got a lot of stuff going on. They married someone from there. A demon, indeed. It's almost like it was Kismet there a demon indeed it's almost like it was kismet at this point it's almost like i knew that that was a haunted state and that's why this smells haunted let's go okay well thank you and that was spooky thank you um i have a story for you today and it is noodles all the way to the top noodles all the way to the top that was a bunch of noodles falling off hold on i was gonna go all the way to the top it sounded like you had noodles in

your mouth i was like yeah they were falling everywhere i'm so sorry i love it um i shouldn't talk and eat at the same time uh this is the story of the infamous white house farm murders i don't know anything about this i didn't either so oops but it is fascinating so this took place in the 80s as well um in 1985 in a small town in essex england called i believe i'm pronouncing this right this is how it seemed to be pronounced in the series i watched tall shunt darcy tall Darcy. Okay. 36 years ago in a crime that horrified and stunned the nation, three generations of the Bamber family were murdered in their own farmhouse. Okay. So there's an HBO series about this.

I don't know if it was, I think it was initially on Netflix, but it's now on HBO. It's called The Murders at White House Farm it's pretty recent I binged it it's six episodes it's I really liked it I thought it was just it is obviously based on this story so it's it's based on a true story very creepy very well done uh there's probably some dramatization like maybe they put a bed in or something like they did with that show you know what some notes said that that bed was a water bed too which makes it extra no why didn't you tell me that that's the most horrifying fact of all the water bed really was like just the peak

80s wasn't it that's didn't know my stepmom has been trying to give me a water bed since i moved here like she keeps threatening to hire a truck to bring it to my house my mom was a huge proponent of the water bed and then she was the first person to be like as someone who lived that that trend let me tell you how fucking stupid it was it's terrible ever comes back don't you ever touch it because like obviously fucking accidental floods in your house also there's like just mold growing inside yeah they're disgusting it's awful also like no lumber support lumbar support lumber support lol i mean it's it's all bad it's all bad it's all sloshy they're terrible i've slept on several because my stepmom is to this day a proponent of water beds

and insists that i need to take her water bed and i'm like where is it and she said it's in the shed and I said when did you buy and she said 1989 and I'm like it's been in your outdoor in Ohio in the woods shed since 1989 no thank you I'm not the lining of that is probably so thin that can you imagine you even pick it up it's gonna fall apart that's just gonna be filled with only mold like solid maybe a better lumbar support with the mold inside it but yes just take it and throw it away just tell her you're gonna take it no trace of irony like she is insisting upon it and i'm like do you not hear that you're trying to make me take your gross ass water bed and she's like it was very expensive and i was like yeah in 19 okay i'm done anyway

before we learned how inexpensive it should have been. Yeah, before we realized what a waste of freaking money that was. So anyway, so there's an HBO series. I really liked it. It's based extensively on a book written by one of the people involved in this case named Colin Cofell. And his book is called In Search of the Rainbow's End. And then another book that was written about the case called The Murders at White House Farm by Carol Ann Lee. So I'm just going to tell you what happened that night and in the months following.

It is bonkers. So in the early hours of August 7th, Chelmsford Police Station received a call from Jeremy Bamber, the son of the Bamber family. He was 24 years old. He called the local police station and said he had gotten a phone call from his father at around 3 a.m he said his dad had rung in a panic saying that sheila his sister so there were there were two i mean i guess i'll just tell you now who's involved

so there's please yes i would like to know the names of the characters well i was gonna bring it in a more dramatic way in a couple bullets, but I might as well tell you now. So two grandparents, Neville and June, and then their two children, Jeremy and Sheila, and then Sheila's two kids who are twin boys. Jesus. That's like all the Duggars. Hang on.

Can you say that again? Wait. Yeah. So two grandparents. Okay. Two kids and two grandkids. Oh, okay. That's less. I was was like it's really not

anything like like we have more family members than our own have families but yeah so neville and june are the grandparents then there's sheila and jeremy are the kids who are adults like in their 20s and then there are two twins twin boys who are six years old who are the grandkids got it so that's who's involved in the story so jeremy the son calls police says his dad neville called him at 3 a.m in a panic saying that sheila the daughter had gone berserk with a gun he says during the call the line had cut off after the sound of a gunshot which obviously made him panic about his family safety so police were sent to white house farm to investigate so when they got there they noticed that the house had been locked from the inside.

And by the time police finally made their way in, they were met by a horrific scene. They found the corpses of the five family members with what they counted to be a total of 25 shots having been fired. Oh, was it five per body? No, it was a mixture of okay eight to the dad i mean it's my thought was if it was like just one and done on four of them and one of them was really shot it would like be a personal more of a personal attack i didn't know yeah no it's uh it was quite a mix so the bodies included now I'm going to give you more detail about them. So Neville and June's two 61-year-olds, their daughter, 28-year-old Sheila, and her twin sons, Nicholas and Daniel, both six, all shot at the property.

Neville was found in the kitchen, slumped over a chair with evidence of a struggle surrounding him. June was found on the floor of her bedroom with Sheila's body nearby. And the six-year-old twin boys daniel and nicholas were found in their beds and appear to have been killed in their sleep jesus at least at least it was in their sleep yeah i mean that was what the officer said like the only uh the only glimmer of like hope in this whole case is that they died instantly but obviously just the most traumatic gruesome situation so sheila was found holding a gun a 22 caliber rifle which was determined to be the murder weapon and

it was lying on her chest pointing towards her neck where the bullet had gone through and she was also holding a bible so sheila had a history of mental health problems mental illness she'd been known to have psychotic episodes where she would bang her head against walls, sometimes even become violent. And she and Jeremy, her brother, had both been adopted by the Bamburs as babies, but from different families. And a few years after she'd been adopted, she'd been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder.

And this was something that was kind of kept quiet by her family. They were kind of traditional, didn't like this news to get out. But she was greatly suffering from her illness. So doctors described her as believing that she had been given powers by the devil. And she believed she could project evil onto others, including her two sons. And she thought that she could project evil onto them and make them be violent. She had in the past spoken about taking her own life but at the time doctors didn't believe she was a genuine risk to herself or others and actually she had been hospitalized several

times the last of which was only months before the murder so she'd actually just gotten out of the hospital a couple months before these murders took place so when she was discharged uh sheila was put on strong medication she had to have a monthly injection of like an anti-psychotic drug it had a really strong sedative effect she was pretty miserable but she was kind of forced to be taking these really strong drugs and her mental health issues were believed to have been worsened by her relationship with her mother june who also had severe mental health issues uh some people tried to make that connection but they weren't genetically they weren't blood related so you

know there may have been a connection but it wasn't right genetic if that makes sense yeah got it so um it's reported that Sheila didn't think June her mother who was extremely religious agreed with her lifestyle which included partying and drugs. She also worked for a while as a model. And when Sheila was 17, she fell pregnant by her then boyfriend, Colin Caffell. But June and Neville, her parents, arranged an abortion for her. So the relationship with her mother became pretty strained after that, if not like completely destroyed. with her mother became pretty strained after that if not like completely destroyed and then when june her mother found her sunbathing naked with her boyfriend it just got way out of control and

like i said the parents were really religious so this was just not okay she'd already gotten pregnant she was doing drugs she worked as a model none of this was flying with the parents wasn't godly it wasn't godly and to the point that june started calling her own daughter the devil's child um oh well that's healthy super good yeah super not good relationship um and after the abortion that her parents basically arranged for her to have uh sheila suffered several miscarriages before marrying colin and then they had their two twin sons daniel and nicholas okay however colin had an affair and the couple split only five months after the boys were born so they split up and this also marked quite a decline in her mental health um she was pretty unstable she was hospitalized several times

and for a while up until their death the boys were pretty much in custody of their father okay so a week-long visit to white house farm had been arranged for august 19 1985 at the request of the bambers the grandparents they wanted nicholas and daniel to visit with sheila before going on vacation to norway with their father so dan So Daniel and Nicholas told their dad they did not want to stay with their grandparents. And they were very against staying there. They said they didn't like it there. They didn't feel comfortable there. June made them pray on their knees. They were uncomfortable. And on their way in the car, they told their dad, like, we want you to talk about this to grandma. And were only six so they were really scared

they didn't want to be there which makes it even sadder that this happened only a few days later so and daniel i guess one of the boys had become a vegetarian and was worried that his grandparents would force him to eat meat so when they dropped him off at the house on august 5th the father was like you know it'll be okay you'll be fine but obviously he had no idea he would never see his twin sons alive oh my god can you imagine the guilt no yeah it's just so heavy and awful like how would you ever expect that you know tabloids uh labeled the murder suicide girl kills twins and parents this was like wildly sensationalized i mean this girl was a model i don't shouldn't say girl this woman 28 years old was a model she was known to be occasionally

do drugs she had just been hospitalized for schizophrenia she now murdered her parents and her kids i mean it was just like the perfect storm for a small town story. That's a media buzz right there. Completely. I mean, just every buzzword. Every buzzword is like exactly what she was hitting. Yeah, it was like mental illness, quote unquote. She went crazy. She killed her own children.

She's a model, so she's beautiful. They could use the photos of her. You know, I mean, it's just like extra icky. So they called it suicide girl kills twins and parents that was kind of the label it was given almost immediately uh so nine days after the murders mourners packed the small village church to celebrate the lives of june neville and sheila and then the two young boys funeral was planned for uh later on so i like that they had a separate funeral for the kids yeah i thought that

was kind of nice as well they had their own ceremony um and also that way you could make it you could make sure there was less risk of there being like media being super disrespectful and like there could be like yeah maybe a more closed family yeah exactly that's a good point and like like i said the grandparents were really religious. The boys were not religious. Their father was not religious. So he could have their own his own funeral for them separately. Right. While obviously his ex wife or his ex partner and her family had their own like very Catholic funeral. Or I don't know if it's Catholic, but it's very religious. So yeah, it was a nice at least one nice part of this. So, yeah, it was a nice, at least one nice part of this. So Jeremy, so he's the one, he's the only surviving member of like the immediate family. He's the son who's 24 and he arrived to the funeral, Jeremy did, with his girlfriend, Julie Mugford and his extended family members.

So as this procession is going toward the church, he has has a breakdown he has to be propped up by julie he is devastated he's grieving there's still photos available of like the funeral and to the world he appeared completely devastated and emotionally destroyed as you may have guessed i used a fun keyword here called appeared devastated. Yes, I did. I did pick that up and I didn't know where we were going, but I liked in terms of storytelling. I was intrigued. Oh, good. I'm glad you're intrigued because I'm about to go straight into that. So family members, even though on the outside, Jeremy seemed to the media, at least very

devastated, something wasn't sitting right for family members. So Colin, the father of the twin boys and Sheila's ex-partner, claimed as soon as the camera stopped rolling, Jeremy changed. So in his book, Colin said that his brother-in-law started cracking jokes and laughing after the funeral. And he later told The Telegraph that Jeremy started making comments about how he couldn't wait to get back to the house with julie and have some fun oh and then in the car on the way to the crematorium he started kind of flirting with julie telling her what he'd like to be doing to her later in the afternoon like in front of the whole family sir oh my gosh yeah out it's a funeral his parents and sisters funeral oh my god and colin said about this really sick and i thought there's something weird going on here and like remember literally

his two six-year-old boys have just been murdered and his partner his ex the mother of his children uh it's it's just really kind of off-putting so the funeral was broadcast on the news obviously so many people tuned in to watch to see jeremy's reaction to his family's murder um it went viral for the time and drew like i said a whole host of media attention and the author i mentioned earlier carol ann lee remembers that she was interviewing different police officers during the case and one of them even said that his daughter at the time was so interested in jeremy because of how he looked like he was like a handsome guy uh-huh and the daughter was saying was saving the newspapers and asking her dad like like how what is jeremy like in real life oh my god he was now all over the media he was his devastated son of this family

and feels very ted bundy yeah he's like he's like charming in that sick way that draws attention but within his own circles people are like no this guy's fucked up so let's see what was jeremy like well i'll tell you so like his sister sheila jeremy was adopted by june and neville when he was only a baby but like i said it was a different from a different set of parents he was put up for adoption after his biological mother a student midwife had an affair with a married army sergeant and they actually later went on to marry and have other children neville and june adopted j Jeremy when he was six months old. They sent him to a range of good private schools, private boarding schools.

However, Jeremy wasn't happy at any school he went to. At one school specifically, he was subject to bullying and a sexual assault. And after his studies, Neville paid, so Jeremy's dad neville paid for jeremy to go traveling in australia and new zealand where he's said to have attended a scuba diving course broken into a jeweler's and boasted about smuggling heroin oh okay that escalated very quickly from i'm sure like you're showing like a powerpoint slide of your photos to your family like like what how scuba trip how i spent my summer like your like third grade presentation yeah uh scuba diving and then all of a sudden it's like bags of heroin yeah so kind of quite an escalation it's not funny uh but so there was

like obviously some family drama there and the like i said they're not the type of family to talk about their skeletons openly and so even while he was in australia new zealand his dad had to send over money to kind of bail him out when he got in trouble uh so they were not super proud of him for that reason meanwhile their daughter is really you know ill and there's just a lot of like hidden stuff that they tried to keep behind closed doors that is now basically coming out once this murder happens. So when he returned home from his wonderful trip, his relaxing vacation. You know it well. You know it well.

You remember the PowerPoint. The spinning word art, custom animation, it's pretty uh it's pretty powerful stuff i would say i would say so for sure the the clip art of heroin was really fun i think i love how many options they provide for that yeah it's fine like clippy just lets you pick from a whole range it's like i i see you're making a report are you going to be discussing heroin hard drugs burglary oh well maybe you could find this link i have just the thing zillennials are like what the fuck are you talking about i know sorry had to be there so when he returned home in 1982 jeremy's father continued to provide for him he set him up with cottage a car gave him a percentage of the family company even gave him a

job where he was paid 170 pounds a week so it seemed like jeremy was basically being taken care of by his parents but he had some issues with his family so let's just say he he always felt like his sister was loved more than him he felt like he was always kind of the outcast even though his parents were like continuously bailing him out supporting him financially he was he was always kind of the outcast, even though his parents were like continuously bailing him out, supporting him financially. He was he was being loved unconditionally. He. Yeah. At least it seems. I don't know.

Yeah. Seemingly. He just had a lot of issues as far as like feeling like he was the second fiddle, so to say, to his sister. So, like I said, something wasn't sitting right with colin the father of the two boys at the funeral jeremy was seen laughing and joking after the burial he was seen coming down the stairs in a hugo boss suit which he opened and pointed at the label where it says boss and said that's me now i'm the boss i'm the boss that's not hoboken it's not Hoboken style. It's not Hoboken style. At a six-year-old's funeral, not quite. Oh, shit.

Oh, I did not realize it was at a funeral. My bad. Okay, that's not Hoboken style. That's not Hoboken style. We're still at the funeral. I totally removed myself from that as soon as I heard an opportunity to talk about being the boss. No, yeah. I mean, he was not the boss.

I take it back. You can be the boss, but he was not the boss. I take it back. You can be the boss, but he was not the boss. I take it back. I didn't mean it. Okay, sorry. So Colin noticed that in the days after the funeral, Jeremy was wanting to go out partying. He was, like, spending all this money

he had gotten from his parents' death. In fact, shortly after the funeral, Jeremy traveled to Amsterdam with his girlfriend Julie Mugford and a friend. He spent a ton of money on weed he even started selling and giving away his parents property from the farm so like he had an antiques dealer come over right away and started selling off their basically like priceless family heirlooms and furniture and his dad's army medals he's like not messing around he does not give a shit wow he even sold his mom's car oh no sorry he gave his mom's car to his girlfriend julie's mom and he tried to sell his dad's car in

the newspaper for 900 pounds he put an ad out like he's just trying to rake in as much cash as possible buying himself suits taking vacations spending money on drugs like i mean also like at this i mean i don't know if it's because we just hear stories like this every week, but like, how did he not think that that was going to not be a good look? Yeah, I think he just didn't. He just wasn't thinking. Well, I think he was just one of those guys, one of those murders that we see who just

thinks they're invincible. Like he's just has this idea in his head that he he gets to do what he wants because he deserves it and things are going to go his way and um yeah spoiler alert they kind of don't eventually otherwise we wouldn't be able to tell this story would we yeah well i was well i'll tell you about it later but you know people do get away with shit that's true bad police work and that kind of thing and that was a huge problem so i mean i'll tell you about it but he almost not almost but let's just say there was uh definitely some possibility that he was going to get away with it uh like some

pretty strong possibility so uh as the weeks went on his behavior got stranger he found photos of his sister sheila like her modeling photos semi-nude he met with a british tabloid and tried to sell the photos oh my god yes and he demanded 20 000 pounds for the photos which were taken like i said during sheila's modeling career and the tabloids refused it uh surprisingly but instead published an article called jeremy bamber tries to sell nude pictures of shula to the sun newspaper which i was like wait that's a way better story and it's free like honestly now i love the press like i'm loving the press today like they're on the right side of history well to be fair they wanted to buy it but he was asking for 20 000 pounds and

they were like we don't have 20 000 pounds and mean, there's a reason they met to buy the photos of the nude sister who had died. That's fair. That's okay. So like they did meet, but when he asked for 20,000 pounds, they were like, are you joking? We don't have 20,000 pounds to give you for some photos. And then he said, well, fine, I'm going to bring them to somebody else then. And so then the next day they ran an article like, okay, we can play this our own way. Let's rephrase then i don't entirely love the press but i really respect their sassy choices in terms of it was a great twist i didn't i didn't really see it coming it was a nice volley

it was a nice rally if you yeah like a back and forth yeah they came back pretty hard and i thought that was a really great return because i didn't expect it. I was like, because of course they're going to buy the nude photos. If you'd given them the nude photos, they would have run them. But I just love that they went with that instead. So it's probably worth noting at this point, as we as I like to say a lot, everyone grieves differently. There's no like only one way, healthy way to grieve. uh only one way a healthy way to grieve however it's just selling nude photos of your dead sister right after her murder probably isn't the most classy way to deal with it's definitely a more extreme way to handle yeah i would say it's not hoboken style but i don't i'm not the expert

look no it's certainly not hoboken style let me take this moment again to apologize to the cake boss. I didn't, I didn't mean it. I wasn't paying attention. I should have. I'm sorry. I tried to insert not. You tried. You tried. And I was too ready for the opportunity to say that's Hoboken style. Speaking of volleyball, I really set you up there to spike that. And you kind of, we kind of miscommunicated where the ball was going but yeah so while people do grieve differently um this is pretty much in my opinion uh particularly callous and quite frankly somewhat evil in my opinion um and it wasn't just colin and their close family who became who started to become suspicious so uh one police officer had watched the funeral and felt jeremy's breakdown was staged um he pointed

at him on the tv and said that's who really did it and basically the whole mini series is kind of telling the story of this one police officer named stan who the whole time is like something is off here because pretty much from the get-go this was ruled a murder-suicide um and so stan was the guy who from the beginning kind of said something's off something's off we have to take a closer look he was getting like railroaded by the police saying like you're going to be fired if you talk about this anymore we're closing this case you know and so well snaps for stan i know and i wanted to bring that up because at the end of the miniseries they say you know like he never really got the commendation or anything he deserved for for keeping this like case going right but so yeah snaps for stan so stan the whole time was like something's up with this kid i don't feel good

about this even though basically everyone else at the time was like, keep it down. We've got this handled. Don't tell us we're doing a bad job. This is clearly an open-shut case. So anyway, it was only when Jeremy's relationship with Julie, his girlfriend, began to crack that the truth started to really come out. So she got pissed when Jeremy started seeing other women like very openly. I don't know how true this was but in the miniseries they kind of had him they had a guy visit from new zealand that he had supposedly met on his trip that he was lovers with and so again i know that the show was also a drama miniseries somewhat fictionalized so

i don't know how true that is but it was pretty clear that he kind of didn't give a shit about julie either and I mean that's not surprising that kind I mean that makes sense to me in terms of like this guy already thought he could get away with everything the real final test was like getting like taking advantage of the person who's probably his closest confidant right yes and he kept calling her his best friend I mean it was very clear that he was using her and you know she clearly like loved him and he didn't really care and was he was was he doing things for her through all this i can't remember like was she was he buying her stuff too yeah so he they went on vacation together to amsterdam um he had bought her a new

dress with some money he had gotten so she was definitely and in the series as well i don't know how true this is but the the officer the sergeant stan was very kind of wary of her because she seemed like she wasn't saying something that she knew and seemed kind of like quiet and troubled almost got it so it was when jeremy really started fucking around on her that she got pissed. She decided she had to come clean. So a month after the murders on September 7th, 1985, Julie went to the police and said, I have to change my statement. So previously she had told police that Jeremy's version of events was true, that he had phoned her on the night of the murders, worried about his family. he had phoned her on the night of the murders worried about his family but in this new statement she confessed that jeremy had told her before the murders that he was planning for a while to kill

his family uh he said i'm sorry she said that jeremy had told her he wanted to get rid of them all and on august 6th he had spoken to her about the crimes and the hefty family inheritance of 500 000 pounds being up for grabs and he called her and said that it was tonight or never and at this point they're kind of like so you knew in advance that your boyfriend was going to murder his family and you didn't say anything and her response was always i loved him which is like uh this is not a healthy situation so is she now considered an accomplice and uh in trouble herself no because essentially the only thing they got her on were she did lie to the police but she also brought them their guy um and i think there wasn't much she was really part of except omitting details or omitting the truth from police.

So, yeah, she had taken a month before she came forward, but it wasn't enough for them to, like, imprison her, basically. Instead, they just used her testimony in court. So Jeremy was arrested the next day after Julie's new statement was taken. Obviously, this turned the whole case upside down publicly people were like how on earth could it be jeremy like wouldn't the police have noticed this before like if he killed his whole family why are we only hearing about this now a month later right well uh behind the scenes there were some things that the public didn't realize first of all the crime scene was never fully secured or properly searched there was entire bouts of evidence that were never recorded oh and the

police were so convinced that sheila was a killer that within days they just started destroying the evidence because essentially jeremy said they said well what do you want us to do with this house full of stuff and he said oh it's too painful i want you to burn it all so they burned the mattresses they burned the clothes they burned everything genius but also like like that's terrible and meanwhile like if i was gonna say that stan guy is laughing in the corner being like i fucking told you like come on like yeah and it was actually really horrible to watch because they're burning all this stuff and it was it was a whole month before this woman came forward so this whole time stands watching them just burn evidence and he's like i know this isn't how it look or like this isn't how you guys are saying it looks and you're burning all the evidence that we could use to yeah put somebody else behind bars and so

it was like almost it was really frustrating to watch wow you weren't kidding because i i said earlier like how how could he possibly get away with this and you're like oh he really almost did wow yeah it's scary and i mean if he had played his cards better and not acted like such a fucking narcissist he probably could have easily gotten away with it if he hadn't like taunted his girlfriend and like brought lovers over to their house and like basically made out with them in front of her and just mentally like gave anguished her and that's probably not a verb um but you know like totally taken advantage of this like weird invincibility he felt he probably could have gotten away with it it's terrifying it's pretty terrifying that there's a lot of crime

sorry i'm totally interrupting you again no no go it's wild to think that there's so much crime out there that probably could absolutely be gotten away with if someone just didn't do that one last thing or didn't yes decide to be decided to have their their confidence elevated that much that day yeah it's like that narcissistic like flew too close to the sun he felt too powerful invincible and it came back to bite him in the ass but like after a month he was basically like i got away with this he was vacationing he was buying himself new suits and they were burning all the evidence so it was like shit you know it was getting insane it was really scary to watch um and again this is a really small town like you were saying about

the connecticut murder like this isn't normal that a whole family is massacred right and this woman had just gotten out of a mental hospital for lack of a better term and had been known by her doctors to be violent and thought her kids had the devil in them so it was to them pretty cut and dry and totally understandable too like yeah i get it like i would i wouldn't fight them on that so yeah and remember like the the house was locked from the inside that was a huge point in the case that i will explain later but when they got there the house was locked and wow that seemed pretty open and shut to them um but not to stan not to stand big stan we stan stan we don't we're the stand stands we're the stands of stan welcome we're the stand stands thanks for having us tonight um so anyway uh so they started burning mattresses clothes

etc pretty immediately anything with blood on it they were burning to help with jeremy's mental state and his trauma they burned bedding carpets uh so so as not to upset jeremy the rifle that had been found on sheila's body was moved several times by officers who weren't wearing gloves oh my god not examined for fingerprints until weeks later uh there were photos from the crime scene crime scene that showed the gun in multiple locations when like nothing should have been touched obviously and several pieces of evidence such as the bible found with sheila were never examined at all for fingerprints or anything they didn't even examine jeremy's clothes yet sorry no so we were like caught up enough on technology that like investigating a

crime scene was supposed to have happened right yeah i mean this was the mid 80s so like they should have fingerprints should have been taken okay i'm just i'm just making sure they're like i get it was like a cut and dry case for them but shouldn't they have still like collected something yeah and that was a huge controversy as well just like the officers who arrived on scene didn't secure it properly which we see so many times i mean even to this day that if they show up and they're like, this was a suicide and that's that and that's the mindset and nothing's secured, then it's like from then on, everything's tainted. Yeah. Even if they realize later that they could have been wrong.

So, yeah, it was just from the start. It was approached poorly. Right. Right. Yeah. Poor Stan. um so uh jeremy's clothes weren't examined until a month after the murders and officers who dealt with him wrote their statements weeks after the events or weeks after talking to him sheila's june's and neville's bodies were released within days of the murders and he jeremy had them

all cremated oh my god it was so infuriating to watch. Okay. Yikes. And remember, they were really religious. They don't want to be cremated. That's not what you do in the Catholic church. You get buried. And so. Excellent point. It was shady in and of itself. But also, once you burn an entire body, there's not much else you can test for, you know?

So he had them all cremated. And so, of course, you're hearing this. this it's like how had he gotten away with this well like i said jeremy was kind of a charming mofo he sweet-talked the police from the beginning uh carol ann lee who wrote that book i mentioned interviewed quite a few of the police officers who worked on the case including some of them that had showed up shown up that night and they they said that the way Jeremy talked about Sheila, his sister, was not very pleasant. He kind of perpetuated this idea that she was crazy, quote unquote, had breakdowns to prime them. Because before they even went into the house,

he was like, oh, well, my sister just got out of the mental hospital. She's quote unquote crazy. She's dangerous. So of course, he was priming them from the start to think that Sheila had done something terrible um and that's just kind of what they ran with without why not other options why not geez why not yikes oh my god so what was taken as fact then later came into question so the first thing that kind of became a turning point in the case was the phone call that jeremy had made to police on the night of the murder so when jeremy had called the police he didn't call the equivalent of our 911 which is

999 he didn't call 999 he found a telephone book like a yellow pages and went and found the local police station's number in the phone book and called that number and apparently at least according to the series underneath it they had him read it in court i don't know if this was just a dramatization or or what but in the phone book apparently underneath the police station's number it says if this is an emergency call 999 oh really still called the local police station you know when you call your doctor and they're like if this is a medical emergency please hang up and dial 9-1-1 sort of like that where they're like don't call your local police station at 3 a.m if someone's if your whole family's being murdered right exactly

emergency numbers yeah so for sure suspicious yeah so strange from the get-go um so instead of 9-9 he went through the phone, found the number of the local police station. He told everybody he thought it would be better to keep it local, whatever that means. Okay. Keep it in the family, you know. Keep it close to the vest. Yeah. Which also didn't make sense because, like, you're wasting time looking up, finding the phone book, looking up a phone number.

Right. What? Just dilly-dallying, you know? Just dilly-dallying left and right noodles all the way to the top so oh the other part was that he said his dad had called and said his sister was going berserk with a gun but they're like well if your dad a if your dad called you and said oh my god your sister's going berserk she's killing us all wouldn't you call 999 second of all wouldn't he have called 999 why is

he calling jeremy to say your sister's going that's a good point i was gonna say wouldn't you be able to see phone records of them talking to each other but that's so much smarter it's like so apparently they don't keep phone records of calls made there was a whole thing about that where they don't keep phone records made within a certain i don't know the details but that was part of it too where they just weren't able to track that but yeah so why would he call right no his son to say i'm about to get shot in the head yeah um strange so now there was the idea of whether sheila could have used this gun. So Sheila was not experienced with firearms. Colin, Sheila's ex, was interviewed on a podcast called The Murders at White House Farm.

And he said, I know Sheila never fired a gun in her life. When I found out it was a.22 rifle rather than a shotgun that killed them, another friend who is a marksman said that if she never fired a gun in her life, she would never have been able to kill someone with a.22 you need to be a good shot and every bullet found its target there were 23 or something bullets which would have meant reloading the rifle which you would never have any which you would never have had any idea how to do as soon as that was pointed out to me i knew she couldn't have done it at all ever because what you need to point out to an american audience is that people in great britain don't know about firearms we don't have gun laws it is illegal to carry a gun

farmers are allowed them to shoot vermin that's it so jeremy on the night that the police came told police hey my sister knows how to shoot a gun we used to do target practice together and later on down the line every single person who knew sheila was like no way she didn't shoot any guns she didn't know how to shoot a gun and they asked jeremy like didn't she say that and he's like i don't remember ever saying that oh so totally changed his story jeremy's team disputed this saying well she lived on a farm so maybe she did learn how to carry or how to shoot a gun. But it's just most people who knew her were like, no, like, she has a perfect manicure still after this whole murder. Like, she didn't shoot 23 bullets directly into everyone's head.

Like, just not. And especially because the drugs she was on were very. Drowsy inducing, right? Yes. Yes. They were, what do you call them tranquilizers and they also caused her to shake a lot so she had a lot of trouble even making herself a cup of coffee lighting a cigarette let alone like she's not gonna load a gun 20 plus times yeah

and and like shoot people directly at their target you know so yeah it was it was really not likely um she also fun fact was not wearing a dress with pockets. So she would have had to somehow store the bullets that she was carrying around the house. Yeah. And shooting with two hands. So also kind of unlikely. So like I said, on top of all that, the medication she was on made her very unsteady, shaky. They were tranquilizers.

It seemed more and more likely that in her state she would have even if she had gone quote-unquote crazy or had a psychotic episode that she would have even been able to physically pull this off so the next staggering piece of evidence in my mind is that Sheila had been shot twice right so twice in the head oh okay, yeah. She didn't do it. So very, very, very unlikely that somebody who had shot themselves once in the head would then be able to shoot themselves again in the head. However, the coroner did say he has seen it before if you miss and, you know, it's more like a flesh wound than actually through the spine or the brain. So it is possible. So for a while they just went with it because the coroner said, I've seen it twice before. So it is possible, technically.

However, now this is very, okay, actually, I don't want to say it yet because it's just a really crazy fact. I'm going to get to it when it's more of a surprise. Okay. So on top of all this, Sheila's body wasn't found with anyone else's blood or residue on it which if she killed four other people you would think she would have had at least some of their blood on her uh so now there's the fact of the silencer so if you think about it if somebody's shooting the family members and the boys are still in bed it was sort of like how is he shooting all these people or sorry how is sheila shooting all

these people without waking anybody up but the gun had not been found with a silencer on it and strangely enough neville the grandfather had always kept the silencer on the rifle so the cousins of the family were kind of like well this is odd because if she had been shooting everybody they would have woken up and this silencer was always with the gun and now it's gone right so the cousins went digging around and on august 10th they found in neville's office uh the silencer oh it was found in a gun cupboard and it had blood on it and a gray hair so they called the police they called stan and stan came over and they were the police they called stan and stan came over and they were like look what we have and he was like oh god you guys have been touching this

huh and they're like yeah stan is like mother fucker every time are you kidding me every time and it gets worse because they give him the thing and he's like i didn't bring any evidence bag so they he puts the silencer in a paper towel tube and tapes up the ends because like sure you don't want to touch it but the gray hair fell off on the way oh my god station so they lost the hair and at first they're like well this is a hunting rifle there might be blood on it it's not that abnormal but they tested the blood and found that it was sheila's and remember this is on the silencer they found in a gun cupboard right so what that means is she would have had to shoot

her family shoot herself with the silencer taking the silencer off gone and put it in the gun cupboard gone back upstairs and shot herself a second time without the silencer right so at first everyone's like well how do we even use that as an argument like what does it mean well fun fact if you put the silencer on the gun it adds quite a bit of length and they determined that i think she was five foot six or five foot seven if she had held the gun to her throat to her chin with the silencer on it she would not have been able to reach the trigger interesting and so it was only once the silencer was removed that it could be placed in a position where she would be able to shoot herself got it in the head got it got it so it's almost like either she for whatever reason removed the silencer put it away in a cupboard came back and shot herself or somebody else just did it

shot her then said oh i want to stage this to look like she killed herself but i need to remove the silencer so it looks like she could actually pull it off right so bamber jeremy he told the police that his ex julie was lying because she was jealous because he had broken up with her and she was just basically they framed it as a woman scorned and um to be fair it wasn't a good look for her because it had been a month she hadn't said a word against him now he dumps her goes off with another person and suddenly she comes to the police like he did it not a great look um at least not at all for the defense was very easily able to take that and be like oh

you're just jealous and this the 80s you know they were able to turn her into kind of like this crying dramatic uh desperate girl who just wanted to get back at her boyfriend who left her oh my gosh um so not a super good look but but she was their main witness. So they basically had to go on her word and prove that Jeremy had done it, not Sheila. So Jeremy was released on bail on September 13th and pretty immediately he went to San Tropez, uh, for a vacation where he partied it up, hooked up with people, um, had the time of his life. And he returned to England on September 29th, where he was arrested and charged pretty immediately with the murders. So Jeremy's trial began on October

3rd, 1986. It lasted 18 days, and basically the prosecution argued that Jeremy, motivated by hatred and greed, had left his family's farm around 10 p.m. on August 6, 1985, after having dinner with his family to drive home. Later, sometime in the early hours of the morning of August 7th, he had returned to the rifle with the silencer attached went upstairs shot his mother june in her bed she actually had managed to walk a few steps before collapsing and dying he then shot his dad neville in the bedroom too but neville was able to get downstairs where he and jeremy fought in the kitchen before bamber for jeremy shot him four times twice in the temple and twice to the top of his head um he had also shot sheila in the main bedroom next to her mother and had shot the children in their beds as they slept um and that

was done last again he had the silencer on according to their argument jeremy then arranged the scene to make it appear like sheila was the killer he discovered that she couldn't have reached the trigger with the silencer attached so he removed it returned it to the gun cupboard then just like sprinkled in a little religious theme by putting a bible on her uh which you know she had that history of having delusions of the devil, so he really played right into that and made it look as though she were in that kind of a headspace when she committed this murder. So after removing the kitchen phone from its hook, he left the house via a kitchen window. They think he may have showered first. And then he was able to bang the window from the outside.

This is what they learned later so that the catch dropped back into position and you couldn't open it so the cousin figured this out and she was like well who else would know this like trick about the house unless you grew up here essentially you could climb out and then like bang it so that the latch fell and locked the window right so that's how they were able he was able to make it look as though the house had been locked from the inside he then cycled back to his house on his mother's bicycle called his girlfriend julie then called the police from the phone book at 3 26 a.m to say he had just received a frantic call from his father and to create a delay before the bodies were discovered he like i said hadn't called 909 he drove really slowly to the farmhouse and then he told police that his sister was very familiar with guns and

was dangerous so that they would be reluctant to enter right and would call for backup before they entered the house so the prosecution further argued that jeremy had not received a telephone call from his father at all because the way they figured this out timing wise is that neville would have had to would have been shot in the mouth before this alleged phone call took place got it so they were like well when your father called did it sound like he had been shot in the mouth right he was like i don't remember and they were like this is really shady like if you're saying your dad called well we just found out he had been shot in the face like twice and right in the mouth so this seems very

unlikely that your dad called you on top of everything else yeah so on top of that there was no blood on the kitchen phone and if he had been shot in the mouth and the face and he was calling would have been something yeah you think there would have been some blood and interestingly enough they actually found june kind of crawling toward the other end of the bedroom and at first they were like this is so weird why would she have crawled in that direction what's over here what was she trying to get to well they found the phone downstairs in the kitchen unplugged but when they looked closer at the nightstand they realized there was like a square where the sun hadn't bleached the table and it turns out the phone was usually on the nightstand and someone had removed it from the bedroom before shooting her

so she was trying to climb to a phone to get to the phone oh no that's so sad i know and so there was no phone there it was instead downstairs with no blood on it and another fun fact is that when he called police he said oh my dad called and the phone line went dead or the phone hung up and then i called police well they found out that the line had never been interrupted and if the line is still on the hook or if it hadn't been interrupted apparently the person on the other end of the line, so Jeremy in this case, would not have been able to dial out until that phone had been hung up. Ah, okay. If that makes sense. Yeah.

So essentially that line had been kept open even though he said like, oh, somebody, I don't know, hung up the phone or there was a shot and the phone died. But it turns out he wouldn't have even been able to make a phone call for like another 10 or 15 minutes once that call had ended if the phone hadn't been hung up right so where are we sorry i'm getting like all worked up um no you're good the wildest story there's so many strange facts that like didn't add up um so uh he had been shot in the mouth before this alleged phone call so jeremy's defense maintained that the witnesses who said jeremy disliked his family were lying or had misinterpreted his words. Jeremy kept insisting he loved his sister and he loved his parents, but they said his defense also

said Julie had lied about Jeremy's confession because she was jealous. No one had seen Jeremy cycle to and from the farm. There were no marks on him, no blood on him, no clothing was ever recovered that had blood on it. And finally, they said he didn't drive to the farm as quickly as he could have because he was afraid, which I was like, okay, a defense or like an argument. Right. That's okay. Sure. So on October 28th, after deliberating for more than nine hours uh the jury had not come to a consensus so the judge agreed to take a majority ruling which basically means 10 out of the 12 jurors have to agree on a ruling okay and basically everyone was like well shit because this means the odds are not good because if 10 out of the 12 jurors have to say that he's guilty for it to go through,

otherwise he's off the hook. So amazingly, shockingly, the jury, 10 of the jurors found Jeremy guilty. The majority of 10 to 2, which was the minimum required for conviction. And the judge sentenced him to five life terms with a recommendation that he serve a minimum of 25 years the judge said your conduct and planning and carrying out the killing of five members of your family was evil almost beyond belief in december of 1994 home secretary michael howard told jeremy he would remain in prison for the rest of his life and since his conviction he sought appeals in 1989 and 1994 for claiming that the trial judge was biased against him.

Okay. Good one. But it was denied both times. The Essex house and the site of the murders was not demolished, as you might expect of a terribly gruesome crime scene. But instead, it has now been turned into the home of a classic car rental company. Oh. Fancy that. You want to order a bentley for the day um i guess i know where to send you we certainly know a place i know a place and maybe a ghost will join you on the ride right right right yikes probably

haunted as hell um so the case has recently gained traction because it's the subject of this mini series i mentioned called white uh white house farm or in the u. because it's the subject of this mini-series I mentioned called White House Farm, or in the U.S. it's called The Murders at White House Farm. It was released last year. It's now available on HBO. I binged the whole thing. I stayed up to, like, 3 a.m. watching it. It's so good and so creepy. And it just puts, I mean, you know, they say, like, sure, some of this was dramatized.

Some names were changed because you know for sake of privacy um but just the way they present this whole storyline is so compelling and well done i just i highly recommend it there's a lot in the six god how many it probably was like five hours worth of tv and so there's a lot in there that obviously I was not able to cover, but it's really well done. So until this day, Jeremy Bamber, who's now 60 years old, maintains his innocence as he serves his lifelong sentence in Yorkshire. Colin, the father of the two twins, went on to train and practice in the field of bereavement and psychotherapy, which I think is really cool. Wow. Yeah.

And he continues a successful career as a sculptor and a potter and also in 1999 he remarried and started a new family so he was able to kind of find some peace and closure uh but that is the story of the white house farm murders and uh some fucking asshole named jeremy piece of work whoa wow no right isn't that horrible that was a good story though in terms like you told it very well thank you i felt kind of bad because i was like i don't know after watching that series it was so dramatic and like obviously they turn it so like you don't expect things but you know it's well it's harder to tell in a well it's also hard to sit it's also hard to tell too because if there really is that many hours of information, you feel bad that you're not giving all the information. Yeah, and also on that note, I didn't know what was added for dramatic effect and what was real.

So I didn't want to throw in facts that I didn't find elsewhere in my research without confirming that this actually happened and it wasn't um you know just added for effect but uh yeah everything that i mentioned here was pretty much what happened um pretty fucked up stuff wow to murder your whole family i mean it reminds me of the menendez brothers of like do you know that story at all yeah yeah i remember also like two years ago like they came back there was like a whole documentary about them that people freaked out about. Right. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I think it's on HBO. They did a series on them because they're two brothers who killed their parents and got away with it for a while. Right. And then they. Yeah. Yeah. They they murdered their parents. I mean, I'll cover it someday. But yeah, they murdered their parents and then like bought cars and clothes and just very, very similar. Not sneaky behavior, not subtle or discreet elaborate behavior yeah yeah apparently jeremy told his girlfriend at one point i should have been an actor oh oh isn't that icky gross god what a piece of shit well thank you for telling it and uh i'm also i am apologizing again to the cake boss that was not Hoboken style of me to the cake boss for when I mentioned the the I'm apologizing to the people who died at the funeral

yes that too let me just apologize to everyone because that was just trash of me why don't we just give a blanket apology to everyone ever maybe we should just do that at the beginning middle and end of every episode maybe yeah Our episode could just be one massive apology start to finish. Let's just do a whole episode where we just say, we're sorry for an hour and a half. We're sorry. Just layer it. Put a beat under there. Yeah.

Beautiful. Exactly. You get it. You get it. Jazzy. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening. Again, if you were once a former member of the London Fog cult we are now members of the society society shut the fuck up do you know how many people were probably screaming that on the other end of the I got there everyone I got there I got there holy shit

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Also, please join our Patreon. We're doing some fun stuff. I also, I'm doing Tea Time Tuesday, London Fog our patreon we're doing some fun stuff i also i'm doing uh tea time tuesday london fog friday we're doing sneak peek saturday love a good alliterate alliteration and alliterati and in the next week or two um if you are a member of patreon you can expect the newest escape room so that'll be super fun um yeah i think that's about it huh i think that's everything um i'm about to go get vaxxed up hey all right and that's hoboken style that's hoboken style baby and that's why we drink yay one day we should finish it with and that's hoboken style baby oh that would have been good

okay and the episode here the end