And That's Why We Drink - E218 A Skeleton's Waiting Room and Christine's New Screen Name

Episode Date: April 11, 2021

Is that the voice of the wise owl in the woods? Is it the ghost of a grandma who wants to cremate her cares? Or is it Chrisitne in her old elementary school play costume trying to infiltrate a secret society? This week on episode 218, Em takes us deep into the Bohemian Grove, an exclusive club and "summer camp for presidents" with some wild allegations attached to it. Then Christine closes out her first two-parter with the conclusion of her story on Richard Ramirez, the "second-hand" nightstalker and true terror of a serial killer. We also contemplate some gossip we have to bleep out and Satan's divine intervention... and that's why we drink! An enormous thank you and sincerest apologies to Talk Murder With Me by Natalie DeGroot. We unintentionally used portions of her article on the murder of Savanna LaFontaine-Greywind (in episode 214) without giving proper credit and we wholeheartedly want to rectify that. Please check out her article, "The Murder of Savanna LaFontaine-Greywind" here and Talk Murder With Me here, both fantastic true crime resources.Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Through May 9th 2021, you can get $20 off your first purchase of $100 or more at Rothys.com/DRINKGo to ZOLA.com/DRINK today and use promo code SAVE50, to get fifty-percent off your save the dates!Go to DAILYHARVEST.com and enter promo code DRINK to get $25 off your first box!Make the switch to Native TODAY by going to NativeDeo.com/DRINK or use promo code DRINK at checkout, and get 20% off your first order!Download Best Fiends FREE today on the Apple App Store or Google Play!Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code ATWWD to get $25 off, with a minimumpurchase of $100!

okay welcome to the show i didn't know how to start i thought that was nice i liked it can you imagine if i was like on a stage that would just be like i okay do you know what it is it's your third grade play hello mom and dad i'm at the play i think i've told you this before but as a kid the way that i would have like on a at a play if i was in it i would just put my entire shirt over my head i'm pretty sure you told the story three weeks ago on the podcast okay yeah because if i couldn't see them they couldn't see me. And so now when I think of even my third grade play, I'm like, oh, God, was I shirtless?

I'm confused. Yes, I'm sure you were, which is great. Anyway, welcome to And That's Why We Drink, where maybe we're shirtless. Well, I just go, I don't speak English. And they're like, I mean, okay, just sit down, I guess. Then you don't have to participate. Just the naked kid and the kid who just refuses to speak you know we're we're meant to be i used to be i did the nativity one year um for school and i got to be

the the innkeeper and i had to wear all these rags like the really cute popular girl got to be like mother mary and then like everybody got these like great parts and then i got to be like the ratty innkeeper who was wearing burl a literal burlap my mom had to sew a burlap sack around my body um so that was i i uh i remember having to play a lot of trees in my day there was a lot of i was an owl once yeah a lot of like objects how are you christy do you have a reason to drink this week oh my gosh what are you drinking it's it's the afternoon there you could get crazy if you want it's only 1 30 so i'm drinking freaking

i'm in a weird gatorade kick lately i don't know why i go through phases um i was in a sparkling water phase i'm over it now i'm in gatorade now um yeah it's a little too early to drink only because if i drink this early then by like 6 p.m i'm like cranky and miserable and when i go to bed so i like to extend it so that i can go to bed after the drinking you know what i mean go to bed on the buzz on the buzz that's right what is what's your go-to gatorade flavor i love all the the frosts you know oh we did purple frost yeah we've had this conversation literally two weeks ago but But yes, anyway. Why do you drink?

I don't really have a reason except that it's like finally 75 degrees every day here. It's gorgeous. They reopened the dog park. It's beautiful. We donated some money to open the dog park. And they have a brick in front of the dog park that says Gio and Juniper. And it has like a little design on it that I made. That's so sweet. so we're very embedded in

our new neighborhood now is what i'm saying but gee wait why why do you drink uh because i'm not very invested in my dog park and also it's not 75 degrees here and i still have not been vaccinated so i'm just like oh man your life sucks i just like live it in the past over here anyway that's why i drink um i i don't think i have a legitimate reason like a super legitimate reason um once your reason was that like you were like tired so i think uh once your reason was that your glasses you had to buy new glasses like your reasons aren't always quote-unquote legitimate but i yeah usually the reason i drink is out of mere inconvenience but uh i will say the the escape room is going very well a lot of people have been reaching out from i mean by the time people hear this i won't be doing it anymore but for this whole week i've

been i'm taking several hours a day and helping people out through the escape room if they need any help i've been available from like four to seven and like had my dms open and it has been a race to the clock every time we've gotten people out of the escape room but there have been some people who see me like see my post like way late now like 6 59 they're like i'm about to start the game and i'm like no so yeah i haven't started yet but only because i've a gotten wildly swamped with my notes this week for whatever reason and then b i wanted to make sure i like could film it and the stars have no you're so no you're fine preparing i uh i will say amanda from wine and crime was my first guinea pig uh when i i i posted something about it or she texted me right as i was in the middle of posting it so she caught me

in a frantic moment and she was like i love escape rooms so i was like look if you want to be my first round at this give it a shot so thank amanda from wine and crime if uh if it's too confusing she gave me the green light on. It was good to post. So there you go. Yeah, so you can yell at her if anything goes wrong. Yeah, anyway, that's the only reason I drink is that I've just spent a lot of hours thinking about escape rooms, aka I feel like I'm becoming a crazy person. So that's it.

Welcome. Welcome to the club. I, before we get started, I want to give a quick apology. Not really quick apology, but a very sincere apology to a blog called Talk Murder With Me. It's this great true crime blog by Natalie DeGroot. And in the episode on Savannah LaFontaine Graywind, it was episode 214, I unintentionally used portions of her article about the story and used them without proper citation in the episode and so anyway basically i'm mortified and horrified and uh i felt it was in like her blog was in the footnotes but i just didn't mention it somehow in the actual reading of my notes out loud so you know to like not to like totally but there are times where i'll just like use a i'll have a footnote at the bottom but i'll just have the quote there so when i'm reading it

through i'll just go oh and you know here's a quote and then i just forget to say where it's from so like i i totally get the accident but also i totally understand the mortifying feeling because we want to always make sure that people know that we're not trying to steal anything from anyone so yeah and you know i take it very seriously especially when it's like storytelling about a murder case like i don't want to ever act like i told this story or i had this information myself or anything like that so um yeah i want to make sure that uh talk murder with me the blog gets the proper credit it obviously it was not intentional but uh it was an oversight on my part, but that's not an excuse for taking somebody's work and then not crediting them. So I'm just here to say full responsibility. I dropped the ball. I apologize. We've added her blog, Talk Murder With Me, to the show notes of this episode and episode 214. Her piece on Savannah is really, really beautifully done.

episode 214. Her piece on Savannah is like really, really beautifully done. Her entire site is chock full of true crime. I'm pretty sure I referenced the blog in a past episode, but it must have been like 2018. So it's been a long time. Like she's great, a great writer. It's a really, really awesome blog. And it was actually bookmarked on my browser when I went in there. And I was like, okay, I clearly have like used this as a resource before, but have mentioned it in the past. So anyway, if you want to check that out, it's a really awesome website. And we've put the link in the show notes. So check it out. I am so sorry, Natalie. And I'm going to be way more, you know, astute from now on about following up on, you know,

making sure everybody's credited properly. There's truly no bigger fear as a podcaster than feeling like you used someone else's notes and didn't give them proper credit or. Yeah, because that feeling, if it happened to you, would be so frustrating and infuriating and devastating. Like it would if somebody took my work that I worked my ass off on and then used it without letting anybody know to check the original source out, I would be very frustrated. So I fully apologize. And thank you. And we've been in touch with Natalie and she's been very gracious and kind. So thank you, Natalie. And check out Talk Murder With Me. It's really a great blog. And there's a lot of entries about some of the stuff we've covered and photos and all sorts of good stuff. can't imagine also yeah definitely definitely on your end talking about true crime wanting to make sure that like you know everything

is very scary you have to be very careful because obviously it's like real people real news stories real sometimes like in process cases and trials and it's yeah you can't joke around or uh yeah well also usually usually most of my stuff is like hearsay also right true one of the things that scares me a lot about most of my stories is that a lot of it is like well then one time someone said this and it's like okay well i don't know if that's real or not like it's like i'm just gonna put it in there but like i can't confirm that the demon you know spoke in Latin, but like I have to. So I it's a different fear, but I thank you for acknowledging it.

I didn't know that that was something that you were going through, but yeah, I'm glad it's been resolved. I was really thankful that Natalie was very gracious and, you know, understood. So thank you, Natalie. Well, my story this week, hopefully the government is very gracious to me oh god em no no i don't want to believe that i don't know what their track record is but i hope that they uh don't come at me don't at me government oh my god all right so anyway hope the government is not mad at me but the sources that i used were vanity fair and then a bunch of blogs so let's see i'm covering bohemian grove which it sounds like you don't know what it is no that's a government thing it is a government thing it's a secret society thing

what i've never heard of this m so some of it sounds really fun some of it sounds really fun. Some of it sounds really incredibly awful. Oh, um, and because it's a secret society, I can only go off of what I, what I've read, but I have no fucking clue what the truth is. It could just be like a good old boys club. Yikes.

Or it could be like really fucking horrible. and that's where the where the mystere lies. All right. Okay, so I'm just going to start out with a quote from President Nixon in 1972. He said, anybody can be the president of the United States, but very few can ever have any hope of becoming president of the Bohemian Club. What? of the bohemian club what so uh the bohemians which i will get into the name of it also in a little bit the bohemian slash the bohemian the bohemian club slash the bohemian grove slash the grovers is an ultra elite club it is basically a summer camp for like presidents and movie stars

and all the people you think are in the illuminatiati. And so it was founded in Sonoma, California in 1872 or 1873. I think it was 1873. And basically the San Francisco area in general is all too familiar with the Bohemian Club. So there are somewhere between 1500 and 2500 members. I don't know if that means there are about 2500 in total and 1500 go every year but 15 to 2500 members and it's basically elites spending two weeks away on this secret retreat to quote get away okay and this by the way bohemian grove is like a real thing but the secret part of it is not knowing what goes on there okay okay so it is like a verified it's a legitimate place it's just we don't know how insidious or politically corrupt or illegal the things that go on there are okay um you know how

like there's always those rumors of like how like um president bush was part of like the skull and bones right college and stuff and there's like some weird rituals that go on there uh bohemian grove kind of has the same more of like oh like there's like weird sex stuff that goes on there and there's uh weird occult rituals that happen. And so, yeah. So there's that. Some of the theories are that there are, quote, secret war rooms there, unquote. And that, like, basically everyone's there having, like, imagine children at a summer camp, except now they're all a bunch of straight white men with power and money. No, it was so fun for 0.5 seconds it was fun until we heard that it was men um so it originally wasn't a secret society but in the

1930s it became more exclusive probably because that was when i think some of the presidents started getting involved in it and so then all of a sudden it became more of a swanky thing right apparently to join you need several invites so like you can't just apply you have to a bunch of people have to want to welcome you in i've seen different things on different websites where the initiation fee ranges from 8 000 to 25 000 um just to even what would be more i feel like it would be more too but i can not to be like oh that's not much money obviously it is but like i mean like if you're the president like country clubs are like quadruple that you know what i mean right well so i thought um i thought it was probably 25 000 but then one of like the more basically i'm going to get into

the fact that a lot of people have gone undercover and tried to like snoop around there. And one of the quotes that I got from someone who actually went there said $8,000, which is kind of shocking to me because I'm like, somebody like whoever you think Bush or, like, what's his name, Elon Musk or somebody. Like, that's not money. Like, that's not a lot of money, you know? That's, like, that's just, like. It's not exclusive. That's, like, that's chump change to them. Yeah.

So I'm going to run with the idea that it's $25,000, but I have heard $8,000. And after that, the yearly fees are somewhere between $2,000 to $5,000. And then it said that there's a waiting list that, again, based on different articles, I have different answers. But the waiting list is at least 15 years long. Some articles say that it's up to 33 years long. And they say thousands and thousands of people are on this waiting list and like literally die waiting to be invited to the bohemian grove i just picture like skeletons so still just like in a waiting room just a bunch of skeletons in line like it's like the

beetlejuice uh purgatory where you're in the lobby so that who are the members so they're pretty much everyone you think could be in the Illuminati. So wealthy big names either in the corporate world or they might be movie stars or a lot of presidents. Basically, if you are a Republican president, you probably have at least a guest pass. So some of the past members have been President Taft, President Coolidge, President Hoover, President Eisenhower, President Nixon. Do you hear the sound? What the hell is that that's a dog it's a dog when i first moved here are you sure i'm sure because when we first moved here i thought it was like a girl being assaulted outside oh god i thought it was a fucking ferret

m geez oh no i thought it was like a like someone screaming for help and i literally in the middle of the night without like pants on sprinted outside and like went to go like try to save somebody and it was this fucking little rat dog it's so annoying and now that dog every every time that dog goes outside it like won't shut up and it just sounds like a woman in distress it's the worst i'm pretty sure everyone's gonna agree with me that it actually sounds like a ferret but all all right. Well, you know what? In the middle of the night when I heard what sounded like screams, I was like, OK, I got to go save a person.

Anyway, a bunch of presidents, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, senior Bush, junior. And then there's like the Rockefellers and Dick Cheney. Apparently, Clint Eastwood was in there. Bing Crosby, Mark Twain twain okay so what i'm what i'm sensing sorry now i'm just like totally derailing here but or at least going back a little bit but like 25 000 to like bing crosby might have been a lot of money you know what i mean or maybe like taft or something like back then it would be a lot of money nowadays like i'm not saying oh to me that's nothing it's's just like picturing like Beyonce, like getting into a place and being like, oh, no, it's $2,000 a year.

What? If even, I mean, $8,000 is the smaller version that I've seen. And $8,000, I would never pay $8,000 for anything. I can't imagine. Like a car, maybe. A child, I guess. Like if I were trying to have a baby. Like kidnap one?

child i guess like if i were trying to have a baby like no like i'd be like like a legal illegal means of getting me to have a child but like even then i'm like oh that's an expensive number it's a big chunk of change and i mean like but for somebody like beyonce 25 grand is like nothing i mean yeah like it's not for like i mean not that i don't know if obama's a member of the bohemian group but like if a president today if someone was like i need eight thousand dollars he'd be like okay whatever it's just baffling that that's so uh that's it's gotta it's gotta not be the right number or it's gotta be an inflated some secret intel that i can't say on the show but i'll tell you later maybe i've probably already told you about this girl i knew who went to this gym I used to go to for like eight weeks. And she went – she worked – her job was basically like she would serve drinks at like really swanky – like she was really beautiful and young.

And like they would literally hire people based on what they looked like to serve drinks at these like crazy parties exclusive things and dinner parties and she went to like this really really really wild one and she's like well i signed an nda but like what are they gonna do and i was like okay i want you to tell me but also like they'll probably kill you i don't know and so she started going on and on and complaining about it and i was like oh my god it's like it's like everything you would think about a secret society and how like kind of effed up it is like actually in real life that she saw it and i was like oh my god but so there are all these people there and they were but it cost like i don't know 25 grand a person just to even like have a dinner there oh my god yeah but which like for people who have billions of dollars that's like nothing you know wow wow

well okay well that person has access to the bohemian grove probably or at least knows one or two things maybe that's where she was i don't know i mean maybe i i have i have one friend in new york who has told me some pretty wild stories because they were uh a paid host at some like exclusive secret parties and stuff like that but i never even heard anything that uh luxurious well i've actually heard the trashiest things about it but it was that house so that's that's why it was so expensive but like i got some she showed me photos of his bathroom because she okay i'm not i'm probably gonna get in trouble she showed me photos of his bathroom because there's some weird like i actually saw actual pictures and i was like holy mother of god this guy's weird let's keep all this in but bleep out the person's name let's do like a yes good idea good idea what tell me about what oh yeah so there

were um all these like different barbie dolls and they were all like posed all over the walls in different sexual positions. What? Yeah, they were like really graphic like. Oh my God. Sex positions and they were like glued all over the, I don't know if they're glued, but they're like all over the different walls. And the bathroom had these weird ass like mirrors on the ceilings and floors and these Barbie dolls were everywhere. It was like very graphic. What in the world?

And that was just like the quote unquote servant bathroom that she used. Oh my word. That's the one she was allowed to use. And they were supposed to take their phones away. And she's like, yeah, I just like said I left mine in the car and then took it in the bathroom and took photos. I was like, girl, you're ballsy. Truly, this person is out of sight.

I mean, like the friend that i have she also said that they used to have like literal like instead of like coat rooms like coat coat racks for you to like check your hat and your coat at the door they had phone rooms where like you left your phone in the closet yeah i need to check your phone out as you were leaving because you weren't recording anything yeah yeah and uh my friend listened i guess they were they were also like being hired to be there so they were like i don't want to get fired but yeah that's the thing is like you have to be careful just to keep your job and she got paid really well because you get tipped and like they would sit on their laps and like i mean the

whole thing like exactly what you would picture somebody serving some young 20 something serving like drinks and his associates and i got a list of the people there oh my god it was we need to have a conversation later christine i've never heard i thought we've talked about this i it's shitty it's just fucking crazy oh my gosh well anyway but he's better i think of when i think secret societies and i'm like it costs two grand per year what okay i'm clearly i'm clearly getting a number that is not true or maybe it's not bohemian grove is lame as shit i'm not sure um maybe it's just so exclusive that like the money isn't even part of it it's just like maybe an afterthought and the the you have to give your blood or

something yeah maybe it's just your blood or like your firstborn well also um i did see a lot of articles say that the bohemian grove group in general is becoming kind of like an old man's club and they're realizing that they're having a hard time getting new people in that are younger so like even everyone on the wait list apparently is super like they're skeletons they're definitely older they're definitely older than like the the cool 20 something crap bros slick yeah. It's not hip and slick. Yeah. It's not happening, you know?

It's not hip-hop happening, as they say. But yeah, so pretty much anyone that was ever anyone, you have to be the top of the top to be invited in. But then even CIA directors, secretaries of state, international bankers, heads of big business moguls right those are all the people who get invited to this and so uh herbert hoover himself has been quoted calling this place the greatest men's party on earth gay sounds a little gay to me uh so you can guess by now most of the members uh i would say 99 of the members are wealthy white cisgender men um and like i said earlier and imagine uh like i said it's like a an elitist summer camp so it gets it gets racist and sexist and perverse pretty quick so i'll get to that a little bit later but just keep that on the back burner if

you didn't already as a woman um so oh yeah don't worry i've been sitting in it over here so much of what happens at a bohemian grove is top secret so there's a lot of mystery and conspiracy about the retreat but uh what we do know is that it's 2700 acres it's guarded by its own like armed security um i've heard whoa i've i saw in one article that there's also like helicopters that like guard it from an aerial perspective um locals that even like live near the area because it's in it's basically in like the redwood forest or in a in a forest surrounded by redwoods i'm not sure if they're the same thing but uh a redwood forest a forest surrounded by redwood trees and uh even locals who are like near the grounds like security will show up and

like question them and tell them that they have to leave according to some people who have broken in apparently the security is not all that it's chalked up to be one guy even stayed for seven of the 16 days and like didn't get no yeah there i saw at least i think it was three but it could have only been two articles where the whole conversation or the whole report was just someone talking about how they broke in and like infiltrated it and like oh my god they played off as if they were like a member or like a guest visiting um anyway so on the grounds there are currently 124 different camps so it's basically like you pick your own i don't know if you select it yourself or your you inherit it like oh my dad and his dad before him were part of this camp so i'm gonna be a part of it i don't know how it works but they're basically like

houses and so you're kind of with your own little camp team. And I think once you select a spot, you're always there. I'm not sure if it gets to change every year. But one of the big ones was called like the Mandalay. One was called the Hillbillies, which is ironic, I think. uh there was another there's another one called like pink onion like some of them are kind of like silly names but you pick one and that's how people identify you and a lot of those camps have their own air about them like oh if you're in this house you are part of either this family or you believe these things or this is your stereotype so there's 124 there have been i think up to like 170 camps at different times but some of them die out just because people aren't members anymore i think because they die out um apparently there are a few rules at the bohemian grove which you must always obey there are two of them one of them which you must always obey is that uh you always have to be drinking. Okay, alright, fine. If you have to twist my arm.

One of the people who infiltrated the camp, I think this was the same person who stayed for 7 out of 16 days, said that they literally have a drink valet that starts at 7am and have gin spritzers and shit for you. Holy mother of god. So you start

hot, and then you end up hotter i think so that's one rule that you have to follow the second rule there's only two rules one of them the drinking one definitely they are strictly enforced on the second one people just absolutely fucking ignore and that rule is what is the club's motto and it is weaving spiders come not here which is from a midsummer night's dream and it means basically like outside business should be put aside and it's like oh so like don't bring like your job here don't bring networking here but like this not gonna happen this is literally the place to fucking network and it's where a lot you're meeting nixon like what you're hanging out with only the presidents so um but

don't network if you're a politician um yikes so it's obviously not taken seriously there's a lot of political and business deals that have come out of the bohemian grove one of them apparently was in 1942 there were meetings there for the manhattan project which um so it was a bunch of government and military officials and scientists and the meetings that happened there led to the creation of the atomic bomb holy i don't like that they're all wasted out of their minds at 7 a.m and are like i have a great idea for a huge bomb yeah i have this idea where we're gonna just fucking explode an entire part of the world blow everybody up uh so one of the quotes that i've seen is quote politicians say there is no place like the grove to help get a campaign rolling and that has apparently there have been a lot of a lot of

president-elects or presidents who were running at least who have campaigned there right before they announced. So it is literally a place where politicians will get their start. And just to be clear, the first people in the Bohemian Club, it has clearly warped since then, because the first people I said, like Mark Twain was a member. Like I didn't say Charles Dickensens i bet he was one of them but like it was all the bohemian club was about poets and writers and artists british are they allowed in oh i forgot that he was british probably i don't think nationality mattered i don't know maybe i don't fucking know i forgot he was british but yeah so the original people in the bohemian club were poets and writers and artists who loved nature which is why they wanted to be out in these woods together and so that's nice yeah and so that also explains like the bohemian club of

like oh we're like kind of like right beatnik artsy artsy yeah yeah it also explains so they were very against the um like business wheelings and dealings happening here and like corrupt politicians discussing things like the A-bomb, you know. So the exact opposite. If anything, it was a full circle of something they'd probably written about. And so anyway, so that's where the original name came from. That's where the original name came from. This also explains why not only are they called the Bohemians, but it explains the tradition at this camp where there is a high volume of theater on the grounds. So apparently one of the biggest things that goes on at this place is that there are, I don't know if daily is the right word, but frequent plays.

There's at least a large scale production. There's two like original shows there's a there's a musical comedy show there's uh a drama all of these are also like written by the members like no so like yeah so it's it's weird that like all of these like politicians all of a sudden show up and there's just like this like weird. So are they in the place? They're in the place. What? So this is like a talent show at a real summer camp, but like they're all old white men who are wasted out of their minds. It's the worst glitch in the Matrix version of Camp Rock.

Holy. Yes, truly. yes truly it's uh so the so bohemian grove has a lot of theater productions during the retreat and their final night is called the grove play um and it's this large-scale musical show created by the club members with hundreds of people in the cast and crew i saw on one article that the budget for this was probably around 140 000 in today's money. Wow. That being said, I've also heard that it is sometimes actually a really boring show. So I, well, I mean, well, duh, it's a bunch of like non-theatrical people trying to write a musical. Exactly.

Like what had you corporate musical? Oh boy. Apparently this has been performed every year since 1902. The only exceptions have been World War II and COVID. So to this day, apparently, they still drum out a little musical together. That's bananas. Also, interestingly enough, a lot of what goes on at the Bohemian Grove, there's apparently a lot of weird streaking and cross-dressing. Well, I'm not surprised by that one bit.

I'm not either, but it's interesting. It's worth noting, I think. But yeah, so there's a lot of art and theater that usually you wouldn't hear people putting this time into. And from what I see, they're part of the production. So somehow Vanity Fair discovered or got their hands on one of the bohemian grove schedules um and when i say somehow what i mean is i ended up finding out that someone that works at vanity fair did their own dec like a little decon recon and found and ended up at the actual grounds themselves and so they did this kind of like

investigative thing um and it's just weird because you would think out of all the publications out there vanity fair wouldn't be the one on top of this like i just think of like maybe i don't even know which one i would think of but to me vanity fair is more of like the like a i don't know more feminine magazine versus like this old boys club in the woods i don't know i feel like vanity fair always comes out with these like intense like mysterious pieces like they're good at like the oh really yeah i feel like they're really good at those long form like expose type pieces i think oh okay well there you go there's proof that i don't read vanity fair i think i just

i think i just i don't know why i assume that maybe the word vanity is in it or something yeah i think the name is kind of uh misconstrues a lot of the well either way i didn't mean any shade to vanity fair because i used one of your articles and it was very telling so you did a great job but one of a lot of true crime sources from there. They write a lot of like long form pieces. Well, I eat my words, Vanity Fair. So let's talk about this schedule. Let's. Please.

I'm so curious. So some of the things at. I'm trying to figure out how I want to word this. What they found with Vanity Fair, and I think there was also another article that found a full program, is that there are, like I said, two original plays, an art exhibit,

there's the musical comedy show, there's lectures on things every day. So there's this lake that all these things are done at the lake. There's like, that's where, like basically the big meeting place. And so they have lectures every day on things that these elites in their field would care about so nuclear science uh oh my god outer space there's like one lecture that seems to be mentioned a lot so either it was really good or it happens every year but it was the relationship

between religion and politics um oh i don't even know what that's the stance on that lecture is but apparently i can't believe it they're so wasted and they're just doing this like college course i know it's strange it's like they're going up and like practicing they're like uh they're professional speaking like it's like their their assignment of like let me just tell you about nuclear science but like while waving a beer and my body around yeah yeah like a drunken speech at the bar but like now we're actually at a podium i guess like a like a best man's speech but also let me tell you about uh the religion and politics aspect of my job nuclear warfare uh they also at this lake always have a fly casting demonstration which is interesting

and and they do have a talent show called the little friday night and this was their caption in the program in your brochure this is what they said about the little friday night quote this is the night that size does matter okay our little show takes over the big stage with big acts from bohemia plus some surprise big names and that big and that means big stars from the big time don't miss our show it's really well big and big was capitalized every time um okay do we get to know who they are the guests no special guests no oh come on one thing i will notice or one thing i will note is that both from this uh schedule that i saw as well as some other quick mentions and people like infiltrating i don't know if that's the right word

someone that just feels right i think so i that. It's like kind of undercover. Well, one thing that I noticed in a few places is that they also seem to have regular musical performances, whether it's live music or I'm not totally I think it's live music. But one night was specifically blues music themed. Another was specifically Motown music themed and another was celebrating sam cook um if you notice that is all black music and they are being uh promoted at this very white elitist place that i'm going to guess has some racist history to it so it didn't it's felt started to feel a little racist there when I was like, why are we celebrating? They're like the entertainment.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so. Wait, so, but wait, so are there actual bands coming to perform the Motown or is it like these guys are performing it? I don't, I don't know the legitimate answer, but based on the energy I was getting off of these articles I was reading, it felt like it was other people from this group performing oh no okay that's very oh boy okay that's how it felt I don't know if

that's right even if they did bring in people I still don't love it that they're only bringing in either other white people to perform black music for them or they're inviting black performers who wouldn't usually feel welcome in this space to entertain no matter what i don't really like the entertainer yeah it's it's kind of weird it's weird felt a little racist so i wanted to just get that out of the way also there was some controversy i think this was also the vanity fair article that there was some controversy about logging in the area and that they were getting rid of the big redwoods and douglas firs for land development so they could expand the ground no i didn't i don't know enough about like the the crisis the deforestation crisis or the logging crisis to give more information than that

but it was clear that there was um some issues with that there were some people who had even left bohemian grove because of what they were doing with the trees and were trying to make like a retaliation group so well especially if the original point was like to be in nature yep anyway so i wanted to bring those up and i also want to talk about the weirdest part of this whole thing uh somehow radio tv host slash conspiracy theorist slash overall trash man alex jones um if you don't know him from info wars uh he's apparently obsessed with bohemian grove and this was like his big break was him uh documenting he was one of the people who infiltrated bohemian grove and actually got on film one of the people who infiltrated Bohemian Grove and actually got

on film one of their weirder ceremonies and I don't really ever in my life want to give that man any credit but I will say this was probably him with his finest work um okay I'll just only because only because it was caught on camera and therefore i can see it with my own eyes but like so and you can find it it's called dark secrets it's on youtube it's a it's two hours so i i'm gonna be completely honest i didn't i did not watch the entire thing so um please give me some slack there if i missed something from that documentary so he caught what is called the cremation of care um ceremony what and it's on like that it's on the first night it's actually like it's more metaphorical than anything it's the uh the first night of the event and basically

the cremation of care or getting rid of your care is getting rid of all of your worries outside of this retreat the whole point is for you to like forget your issues at home forget your issues with work just come here and like get away and take a break so this is almost like they just wanted alliteration involved yeah they couldn't just say like oh like throw your cares away they had to be like cremate your cares it's big toxic masculine men who think that they're all tough and shit. So they're like, creaming your cares. Because God forbid you talk about your cares as if you have emotions. Except right now when they're on fire. The way you just said that sounds like a little Bagel Bites act.

Creaming your cares. He literally would. Is this the spirit of a grandmother who wanted to creaming her cares? So anyway, so it's at least nowadays i don't know what it was like in the past but at least nowadays it's more of like a ceremonial symbolic like today is the first night of the retreat like let's all just like have a good time but it comes with like some secret society flair to it so there's people in robes and shit which is really creepy oh no oh no so this is in 2000 when alex jones and another person they uh together went in to bohemian grove and brought

cameras uh yeah so the cremation of care so what they what they found was that basically folks all gathered by the lake there's this the so the owl is like their big symbol of bohemian grove and so there's a lot of owls everywhere and one of the main owls well you know what hold on can i pitch something i have an idea so remember how i was an owl in the play when i was growing up you said it earlier and i was like this is so beyond for real i could go get my costume and then i could infiltrate and just stand in the corner and nobody would i had water in my mouth nobody would ever know m that was nobody would ever know i'll go like this is what i did in the play i do is that the voice of the wise owl in the woods cremating our care oh my god i think this is a

great idea all i thought of was you with your fucking classy trashy headband and your rothies just standing near a lake and pretending you're an owl oh my god i'm so into this idea actually um someone draw christine pretending she's an owl and she's clearly not i'm infiltrating a secret society dressed as an owl okay go someone draw an owl and an inspector's hat and just and just staying still um okay i wouldn't be standing still i'm not good at that i can't promise that but i i will have the costume you'll at least cool even though you're definitely human um so wow where do i go back i i think we're done i don't think you need to say anymore so uh oh yeah so the the 45 foot owl slash Christine. So folks all gathered by the lake at this 45 foot stone owl who who's and where's Rothy's.

It's 45 feet. What God's name is going on at this place. It's apparently known as the great owl of Bohemia. So that's your new screen name, Christine. I'm so into it. Oh my God. So, okay. leukemia so that's your new screen name christine i'm so into it oh my god uh so okay people go to the lake they stand by this owl and this is where the cremation of care ceremony begins and apparently beforehand there is this massive feast which i'm imagining is like harry potter

style oh i love it and bagpipes play as everyone moves to the lake oh uh people are at the altar and they're wearing different robes but the main one we got to care about is the one in white he's the speaker alex jones actually says that he's he shows a brochure and this is a quote from him even more shocking is the figure of a human body burning in the flames what in fact i've shown it to people that are experts in an anatomy to actual doctors and they say that the anatomical size of is that of a baby or a small child so it what so the picture on the brochure is implying that this ceremony involves a human probably child sacrifice um which is just uh the narrative the narrative at this point like no child was literally sacrificed but that's okay what we're going with here which is also

fucked up like why is that the story we're going with yeah okay so at the lake the cremation of care skit is performed because there's a skit to it obviously oh fun uh it's theatrical and it's about basically making a deal with the wise owl in the woods to give them permission to like take the next two weeks and relax so they're all right it's asking the wise owl if he'll allow them to relieve themselves of their cares each ceremony is paraphrased a different way i mean i don't know i wasn't fucking there but it sounds like everyone who has been there and has explained it has said it in different words so i'm guessing that the script isn't like set in stone like that sure um they uh but the gist of it is that uh the

man in the white robe surrounded by torches by the way tells the bohemians to quote shake off your sorrows and cast to the winds the cares of life um okay and there's by the way when i tell you i'm grossly paraphrasing because there is like it felt like a half an hour of flowery old timey language of yeas and bows and all this oh. Oh no. I just got rid of all, I was like, I'm not even going to talk about that. But it was like a whole sermon that this guy was giving, basically. And eventually, at the end of this

speech, the man in the white says, dull care has been slain. Our funeral pyre awaits his body, the corpse of care. Oof. Okay. And so then there, the other part of this skit is you haven't been paying attention the whole time but in the lake there was this guy dressed as the grim reaper on a paddle boat and he and he brings over what looks like a human body it's like probably like

a dummy wrapped in a blanket or something but it's supposed to look like the so dull care just so we're all on the same page here because i had to learn it now so do you um dull care is the name of the body that is your cares so dull care dull care so all of your cares the embodiment of your cares is this body that they call dull care so when they, dull care has been slain. Our funeral pyre awaits his body. Dull care is the corpse of your cares, the dead body of your cares. So it's just like a flowery metaphor of like, oh, here is a representation of all the cares that we're totally just letting go of. I see.

And so the Grim Reaper is bringing over the corpse of your cares and so he brings it over to uh the man in the white and then all of a sudden as you're about to say goodbye to your cares and say goodbye to the corpse of care the loudspeaker you hear this maniacal laugh and it's the owl hold on i didn't get this in my script hang on and the owl basically says is that better yes by the way i giggle afterward because i can't keep a straight face well by the way for many years the owl's voice was walterronkite, who was also a member of the- Oh, fuck. I can't feel those shoes. Are you kidding me?

Yeah, you can't feel those ruffies. I can't feel those ruffies at all. Apparently, Walter Cronkite was also a member, and he volunteered in some way to voice the owl. Of course he did. So the owl laughs, and then he says something along the lines of, like, you can't slay me. You, like, you can't slay your cares. You can't slay me. I am a Walter Cay your cares i am a walter crock is that okay it's you're doing great thank you uh it basically says like you're fools to think you can relinquish

all of your cares fools and the man in the white says we know we can't ignore our worries forever but we come here every year quote for fellowship to take time away from those cares. And this is another quote from that flowery stuff. The white man tells the white man, the man in white. Also the white man. Which one? The white man in white tells Walter Cronkite slash Christine Sash the owl. Thine malevolence, which ye pursue, has lost its power under these friendly trees.

Which basically says, like, you trying to scare us about, like, relinquishing our fears and relinquishing our cares. That's of the past. We're here to have a good time. Do we have your permission to just hang out? And basically the owl says, you're going to try to burn me? I spit upon your fire. And then there's a firework shut up and then the man in white says oh owl we're begging for this i'm paraphrasing but he

says like please please please like don't spit upon our fire let us burn the corpse of care let us not have these cares anymore and then there's this huge you know music playing i think it's the owl singing the lyrics and basically the lyrics say the only way you can conquer your cares this is not the literal lyrics but sorry i'm preparing basically the the gist of the lyrics is that the only way you can conquer your cares is with fire from the lamp of fellowship which apparently burns eternally and by eternally i mean for the lamp of fellowship, which apparently burns eternally. And by eternally, I mean for the week of the retreat. So then the man in white, basically the owl is saying,

yes, you may now burn the corpse of your care. So then the man in white takes an unlit torch, sticks it into the eternal lamp of fellowship and lights the fake body on fire. And he burns the corpse of care for all of us and he says quote be gone detested care hail fellowship's eternal flame and then there's what i imagine a firework show and everyone's excited because we've all relinquished our cares and we can have a great retreat together this is bananas so here's where a lot of the controversy also starts coming in or at least the conspiracies

behind it because apparently from those who have seen this skit play out they say that it nods to a lot of babylonian or druid rights or um one reporter even said that when they saw this happen they also saw a bunch of little upside down crosses around the lake catch on fire at the same time oh my god which feels like a no-no from ominous from the white protestants um so mainly the theories claim that bohemian grove ceremonies focus on these gods none of which you hear about in the bible i think um ball b-a-a-l uh focuses on the druids it focuses on bacchus who's also the greek dionysus who is the god of wine and the god of wine celebration and sexual freedom so the druids if and no one's

been able to confirm any of this but a lot of people have found connections to like oh so that sounds like this part and that sounds like this part and the things that you're saying sound like they're part of these rights so people have kind of mish-moshed them together to blanket statements say that this is some occult shit i see especially the druids part because they said the druids have an interesting connection to groves because in paganism grove means a learning center and oh interesting also the owl who is like a symbol in general of wisdom of course that would be inside the learning space so like there's an owl in the grove, there's the wise savior or whatever, in your learning center, I don't know. So it's just an interesting thing to note. Also, to add to the conspiracy theory slash secret society aspect, owls have been seen in different kinds of brotherhoods before they've been seen, I think in the Illuminati, they've been seen in the Freemasons, a lot of people say that there's an owl on the dollar bill, which signifies Freemasonry. Also, we never aired this episode,

and I would like to redo it because I think I actually it was kind of trash. But I when we did our second DC live show together, the one where all my friends and my family were there. That's the show that I feel like I butchered and i covered the dc road layout and the conspiracy is cool i would like to redo it i feel like i didn't do it justice last time but i'm trying to remember what my story was because maybe we could just redo that yeah you should redo that story either way thank you i think i should too but there's for those of you who weren't at that show uh there is a conspiracy well it's just your family so no one else fit so mom and deirdre you can leave the podcast you don't need to listen but uh basically there is

this huge conspiracy theory that the roads of dc the layout of the dc roads is all created by either the illuminati or maybe bohemian grove or the freemasons or something secret society-esque that is tied to politics so one of the things i mentioned is that if you look aerially at the at the dc scope a lot of things will actually draw out owls um also uh i remember talking in that episode or at that show that a lot of the main lines through dc actually draw out an upside down pentagram with the White House like inside of it or something. I mean, like just crazy shit like that. Most of the time, however, when talking about Bohemian Grove and the cremation of care ceremony, the owl is said to be a Canaanite god called Moloch, who is usually referenced by a horned animal in general a lot of people think that it's probably not malik because usually a different horned animal will

represent him instead of an owl so like maybe a bull or something or a goat or something um a lot of people say well an owl isn't always used so it's we can't just assume that this is definitely the the god they're talking about. More or less, though, if you're talking about Bohemian Grove and the occult, at some point, the owl named Moloch will be involved or get mentioned. A lot of people have also thought that this owl could be Lilith, who is a demoness, or it could be a few other people. The overarching assumption is that it's Moloch. Wasn't Lilith just a woman from the bible who like was a sinner or is she was she also a demon i'm going off of what these uh articles told me which is lilith the demoness the only thing i know about lilith is from true blood so i don't know

the truth yeah oh i guess yeah a demonic figure didn't realize that. I remember her being a demon in True Blood. Because she was like the one who was Adam's wife. Right. Adam and Eve. That's I don't know anything beyond that. All I know is that I was going off of these articles, which by the way, like, I don't I don't know how legitimate these articles are either. legitimate these articles are either the ones where there was like investigative reporting i i trust a little more but there were some were like i don't know if this is just conspiracy theorists talking out of their tushy or something but anyway you know how they do you know how they do um but so anyway a lot of people say it could be the owl could be malik and uh malik is apparently

the god associated with child sacrifice which would also tie into the brochure that alex jones showed i can't believe it's on a brochure like what a strange yeah okay also let's remember again that these are wealthy white cisgender elite men um so racism sexism perversion in general will get discussed throughout this not to say that perversion is exclusively to men but you know or racism or sexism yeah it's it's all just kind of part of a package i'm working with here and only here so uh let's just say that it's a top secret retreat for powerful white men and they can do whatever they want without consequence. So it just gets dark fast. Let's just leave it at that.

So one of the things that freaks me out a little bit about the owl maybe having something to do with child sacrifice is that this skit was only introduced in the 1920s. But before that, there are suggestions of real sacrifice. Oh, my God. Instead of it being like a fake body wrapped in a blanket. What? So it cannot be, there's no definitive proof, but in 2004,

UC Berkeley showed pictures from Bohemian Grove that looked a lot like a real hanging. And if it was the early 1900s, I'm going to, I think we can all guess who was probably what so the fuck so yeah um hmm that's okay where we'll go there use your imagination on that um or don't or don't but like let's just say we can all probably guess who were the target who who ended up being hanged if that's true again we don't officially know but there are pictures out there stating

this was 1905 1906 at bohemian grove and it is very clearly you know a really traumatic picture jesus so other than that which is horrible enough um there are other rumors about bohemian grove where uh there are quote group homosexual orgies okay which that one sounds cool me um but president better than other stuff president nixon in 1971 this is a quote from him we all know the f word slur for the queer community specifically the gay men correct i mean i sure do okay so it's a it's a cigarette in the in in england sure is that helps you so president nixon in 1971 when talking about the bohemian grove said it is the most f wordy goddamn thing you could ever imagine so my god so there has been some uh hmm i would say that is a a uh a confirmation that it's a probably there's some homosexual

things happening there um and also i mean let's not be shocked because we have all heard the stories that there's a lot of closeted conservative people and now we're in a in the woods by ourselves where nobody can tell on anyone because we're all doing bad shit no rules drinking at 7 a.m so i would imagine this i would imagine this is a place where people are especially super drunk like i am i imagine this is a place where people are being their rawest selves sure so there's that one article who rules america they talked about an aspect of bohemian grove where a priest during some of this at one point during a lecture, I think, a priest or someone dressed as a priest and another person dressed as like a tree fairy or a tree spirit or something. They talk about how, quote, a man's heart is divided between reality and fantasy and how it is necessary to escape to another world of fellowship among men

so it sounds like they're it sounds like it's alluding to like hey let's all really be ourselves once and for all here now that we're separating ourselves from reality anyway okay here's another quote from that same article the main priest wore a pink and green satin costume while the tree spirit appeared before a redwood and a gold spangled bodysuit dripping with rhinestones and they spoke of fairy unjuance aka lube that would free men that would free men to pursue warm fellowship whoa whoa so it just sounds like that's the beginning of a sexcapade if i ever heard one oh yeah so that i'm fine with of all of the things that i'm hearing is that all of these closeted gay republicans and closeted gay conservatives and closeted gay politicians

or whoever they are they're all just finally being themselves in the big gay forest that's great super duper what i'm not cool with is this racism allegation no sure uh or they could just not even be gay and just be like fuck it right right yeah happens that happens too that's true that's true and what happens in the woods stays in the woods and that's and until vice until not vice vanity involved until vanity fair finds out and they go right right right so okay that I'm cool with now it's about to get really rough so I just want to

maybe do a quick trigger warning oh god oh no skip ahead like two minutes and we'll be done with this okay for if you happen to be triggered at all by sexual trauma in any way. Fuck.

So apparently there not only was it all potentially consensual man on man sex at this, but there were also a lot of sex workers who i'm just gonna completely scratch out the word sex worker and put select sex slave oh and they apparently people were brought in to bohemian grove for quote extreme sexual games um but were they like consenting to this no wait what they were not they. They may have started out consenting. They were not consenting by the end of this. So apparently there was also allegations from these, I'm going to say survivors of slavery, of human trafficking. But there was also apparently exploitation of children. Apparently there was a, exploitation of children apparently there was a quote ritual

murder um so if all of this happened that means human trafficking is a very real fucking thing that happened there um one of the most uh loud voices to this is kathy o'brien who is a uh survivor of this and she wrote a tell-all called transformation of america trance is in like a hypnotic trance and also wrote another book i forgot to write it down here but if you look up kathy o'brien and bohemian grove you'll find a lot more detail on this if you care to know that um the only quote i'm going to say is just a very very very quick um paraphrasing of her experience there and also a very sadly this is the light-hearted version but i don't even want to get into the shit that i read

but kathy says quote slaves such as myself were subjected to ritualistic trauma i knew each breath i could take could be my last slaves of advancing age or with failing programming were sacrificially murdered at random in the woods, in the wooded grounds of Bohemian Grove. And I felt it was quote, simply a matter of time until it would be me. These occultist sex rituals stemmed from the scientific belief that mind controlled slaves required severe trauma to ensure compartmentalization of

the memory. I was told, and this is from a separate article but the same person she said i was told quote the next sacrifice victim could be you anytime when you least expect it the owl will consume you what the fuck m and that's the most light-hearted thing i can tell you that it really she does a an excellent job of giving you as much detail as you could possibly want. But also if she went through this shit, that woman deserves every good thing for the rest of her life to come her way.

What the fuck? So if that's true, I hate like not outwardly being like I believe I don't know. I don't know anything. So I don't want to say anything. You know what I mean? I'm going to absolutely just ride with what she's saying. I'm not going to tell her she's wrong. I'm not going to say it didn't happen.

I also just don't want to get sued by massive politicians. Right. Well, I mean, that's just her version of events, which if it happened are fucking awful. If it happened, this is fucking terrible. So you'll notice in that quote, I said the phrase failed programming. Yeah, I noticed. It said, I'm not going to say the whole part in case people have already fast forwarded. But basically, I made mention of like, things happening to specifically the slaves who were

older or quote, failed programming. And so basically, this leads into a whole other thing, which I have not even begun to cover because I it's very overwhelming. Because I want to cover this. And I know it's going to be like a QAnon multi parter. So I haven't even touched it yet. But failed programming comes from Kathy, allegedly also being a part of MKUltra. What? Kathy suggests or claims that a lot of members of MKUltra, once they were in a trance, they were human trafficked into Bohemian Grove. Oh, my God. but kathy claims that her time at the bohemian grove presidents including both bushes reagan ford and bill clinton have all abused her in her lifetime in the quote underground room

i just don't even know what to do with this information um she also says she's been to bohemian grove a lot and there are cameras in each of their quote, sexual perversion theme rooms. So there's different rooms for different things. And she has information about all of it. But basically, Kathy could be making all this up. But there are at least including Kathy, there are three different people who have come forward about all of this. And I guess their stories were similar enough that it should be

worth mentioning that they have all said things and i guess they've also described places that it's like unmistakably bohemian grove i think one of the art i didn't put this in my notes but i think one of those people was he said i was too young to realize it was bohemian grove at the time but in my descriptions, it's obvious. I think he said unmistakably Bohemian Grove. So this is a quote that I saw after I read that there are three different people who have come out about this stuff. Quote, and the government has not dismissed their accounts as false or unsubstantiated. It has simply refused to investigate, which is yikerunies.

simply refuse to investigate, which is yikerunies. Interestingly, to Kathy's point, Kathy says that the first president to abuse her was President Ford, who was also the first to really take advantage of executive privilege in 1947 when the CIA was being investigated on abuse allegations from programs including MKUltra. Aha. was being investigated on abuse allegations from programs including mk ultra aha plus the director of the cia when mk ultra was launched was also a member of the bohemian club and he only became the director like months prior like he was a part of the bohemian club and then he became the director of the cia and then only months later mk ultra started and then there were all these abuse accusations and it got basically covered up by president ford who is one of the people who was also a bohemian grove that kathy says was abusing her and like i said the club is exclusively male which means up until today women have not been allowed to join since its founding

they aren't even allowed to be hired there and the state of california has charged allowed to be trafficked there but not bingo hired there wow the state probably why do you think they're not allowed to be hired there because they might see some shit you know the state of california charged the bohemians with discrimination because of that they even have threatened the bohemian groves uh liquor license oh god forbid that's even worse um but one of their arguments they've had a few arguments where one of them was like and also like this is me trying to completely separate from the shit that kathy has said like i know that like just to try to give it i'm trying to see both sides of this sure and if it is just a good old boys club where you're

hanging out by the lake and listening to lectures and smoking cigars. And Dave Matthews Band. And there's Dave Matthews Band and Christina's an Owl. If that's all of it, then... Just the simple stuff. Then they said one of the reasons that they don't want women included is because they feel like this is finally a getaway with just guys where there isn't any peacocking that's disrupting the uh fellowship of just hanging out together instead of like just it being like a pissing competition on like who can get all the girls you know so that's one of their big arguments another like

okay lesser serious argument but an argument nonetheless that they literally use i think like in court one of their baby arguments was that, well, men urinate. This is a quote. Men, quote, urinate in the open without the use of rudimentary toilet facilities and the presence of women would, quote, alter the behavior of its members. I knew it was going to be something about pissing or periods. I mean, for God's sake. It's literally like they just want to be able to pee wherever they want without women being grossed out by them. They just want to be able to pee wherever they want without women being grossed out by them.

So an obvious fact that goes without mention here is that the Bohemian Grove members use a lot of sexual euphemisms when talking about the Grove. Even the physical location, they talk a lot about how the trees are, quote, towering shafts. There was one tree here that was apparently over 300 feet and there's a plaque next to it that says, quote, I love this tree as the most sound, upright and stately redwood in the grove. Let my friends remember me by it when I'm gone. Yikes. of the San Francisco Bohemian Club and was able to pinpoint a lot of conversations that have to do with either big business or politics that all came or all started from Bohemian Grove. So one of them was when they mentioned the atomic bomb. Others have been when like, I think Reagan and Nixon were like, figuring out like how their campaign would go or something or like, but there's there's

been a lot of conversations that could get placed back to their place of origin being the bohemian grove phillips also asked a few people why men actually enjoy the bohemian club and why they want to join and one response was quote the grove is one of the few places where men can go for ritual and bonding experiences in the grove something mythical occurs that allows white males who now feel under siege to gather and celebrate themselves they don't have anywhere else to do that anyway that's the final quote and the final part of bohemian grove and take what you will from it it sounds like there's some racist undertones which does not shock me it sounds like there's some real sexual

perverse undertones which also sadly does not shock me but sounds like there's some real sexual perverse undertones which also sadly does not shock me but at the end of the day it could just be a group of white people playing croquet together i'm not sure so and pissing everyone and peeing all over the place in which case i still don't really want to be a part of it or involved in any way so right well there you have it not my scene you know not your scene what a time sorry that was so long christine but no that was great that was like something i've literally never heard of before i'd heard of it very passively i knew of like i think because i'm scared to cover secret societies because i don't know what kind of pandora's box i'm opening in terms of research

but i had heard of bohemian grove and i was like yeah yeah i'll get to it eventually and then i read it and i was like oh shit i had no idea i've never even heard of it my god all right okay well i have something for you that you already know what it is yes part two part two of richard ramirez the night stalker so the last thing i remember is first of all i remember your storytelling was because thank you that's nice you really found like the perfect spot to like a good halfway point of like they finally are about to like get the ball rolling on investigation or something well you know i like a good cliffhanger we were at the dentist's office oh that's what it is because he's about to come back in to get his teeth fixed or something because something hurts

really bad and i remember this fucker and his stupid footprints and how much i hated that his shoes got us nowhere every time well the footprints are back okay baby and we are currently still at the dentist's office so the last thing that happened is that uh the suspect had visited the dentist on july 3rd and it was july july 9th so they had missed since they didn't get access to the fingerprints on the car they missed him by a few days which was very frustrating and then salerno one of the detectives had a friend who was a dentist and he brought these x-rays to that friend who said i can tell you he's going to be back. He's got an impacted tooth and it's going to be killing him soon if it's not already.

So they are thrilled. They're thinking, OK, he's going to come back. So they put two police officers on surveillance of the dental practice and then they wait. So that's where we were. OK. That's where we were. Okay. Part two. A few weeks went by and the police force decided they were spending slash wasting too much money on having these two officers doing surveillance every day. So instead, they decided to replace having the two surveillance folks watching. They decided to replace that with a a robbery alarm on the dentist desk and what would happen is the dentist was supposed to ring the silent like panic button basically this alarm bell if

he saw the the guy go in the patient come in and so they said you know what we're pulling these guys where it's been a few weeks he hasn't come. We're pulling these guys and we're going to put a robbery alarm in instead. The first day. Shut up. Shut up. I don't. It really is so infuriating. The first day that the men had been pulled from surveillance, the doctor called Carrillo up at around 10 p.m. and said, where were you?

Why didn't you come? It turned out their suspect had been in that day and he had been smashing the alarm but it hadn't worked it had malfunctioned it didn't connect oh my god are you fucking kidding me so these poor dentists are sitting there going hello mr ramirez and like hitting the button and like nothing's happening was the dentist at least slick and was like you have to come in one more time you know i don't know that's a great question i mean i would have done that i would have been like oh you actually have to come in for one last thing we have to shave down a tooth or something shave down a tooth i don't know anything anything just to like we got to take this thing off after 24 hours yeah that's a good call i think he just was so taken aback that like no one was helping serial killer in his chair i don't know i don't know um but yes the alarm malfunctioned so the day that the force pulled the two surveillance

guys off uh he waltzes on in with his little shoes and uh the alarm doesn't work so now we go to july 20th approximately midnight max 68 and lila 66 conniding were shot to death and they also had knife wounds found on their upper abdomens the police found a pool gate that had been opened and the back door was also opened and it was quickly observed that both were shot with a 22 caliber gun so this is where it gets frustrating again because you're like if they had left those two surveillance guys on one more day i was gonna say like can you imagine being relatives to that those people and being like you mean had your shitty plan b not happened then like my family would be alive yeah yeah yeah it's it's really like horrific it it makes it so much so much worse um so they saw that the two had been shot with

a 22 caliber gun so now they're thinking okay he's still going at it and then the next morning uh because as we know he just doesn't take a fucking break there's another murder reported in sun valley and this time it's like day after day after day it just doesn't stop so china wrong covan covan on age 32 was murdered while sleeping at around 4 a.m and then his wife som kid and their son were both sexually assaulted um so this is another part two like trigger warning that it just basically what you heard last week just continues throughout this week so you know fyi so the suspect had been at the location for two to three hours and it would later be reported that while the suspect was robbing the house he asked the wife som kid if

there were any more valuables to which she replied no i swear to god before he interrupted and said no swear to satan oh oh okay okay i swear to satan okay okay yeah jesus wow full in on his um devil worshiping situation now wow on the porch uh they found a perfect avia shoe print left behind i'm gonna lose my fucking mind are you kidding me and let me guess nothing came from it well on august 6 1985 during a police meeting about the evidence of the case they got a call which notified them that an attempted murder had happened that night in northridge where two people had been shot so chris and virginia peterson's house had been entered and

the suspect went to the bedroom shot virginia in the face then shot chris in the head but in both cases the bullet didn't make a full impact and they both survived. Whoa. Like being shot to the head, they both survived. That's, isn't he, this is the same guy who did the shot someone with the keys, right? Or was that a- Oh, yes, yes, yes. How is he having so many unlucky direct hits?

Well, he's convinced that like he's being led by Satan and that, you know, his actions aren't even necessarily his own so he probably thinks it's some sort of divine wow plan i'm not sure but it's all bonkers so yeah they both survived um chris after having been shot in the head is miraculously able to chase the intruder out wow which is amazing like what adrenaline i was gonna say like that is the human body at its finest right there for sure like fight or flight times a thousand uh so by this point the police knew their suspect was reading the paper uh because in the case of william doy where he had actually saved his wife's life by calling 9-1-1 before he died the killer

was now making a point of disabling the phones before attacking ah so that the family couldn't call 911 if they were able to get to a phone so at least at this point police are putting some pieces together as far as like well now we know he's following he's keeping tabs on what we're reporting about him. So the news was well aware of this man, the serial killer by now. And this is kind of an answer to your question last week about his moniker. So he began to be referred to by various names, including the walk-in killer and the valley intruder. But it was the Herald Examiner who eventually called him the Night Stalker. And then that stuck.

Yeah, because I remember asking last week if he, like that he was named the same thing someone else had already been named in some way. Yeah, I think one of my clues for Patreon was like secondhand, secondhand, like a hand-me-down serial killer. The other, again. The other, yeah, because I was like, that's a really good point. So two days later on August 8th, the Night Stalker hit Diamond Bar near Roland Heights, which was around five minutes away from Detective Carrillo's home. So now it's getting, like, close to where he lives.

The police arrive at the house of the Abbotwaths, where someone had entered the rear of the house. And in this case, they noticed that the killer had left a half-eaten honeydew melon behind. Okay, but also dna right dna if you're eating honeydew can't they separate that uh maybe did they not even look for dna on this fucking melon oh my god they have dna back then what year was this again 85 maybe i don't remember it's been like right on the cusp of when dna was like a commonly when was dna created that was the stupidest question i've ever asked thank god hey god when did the police start using dna the first uh the first use was 1986 the year before after after wow yep 1986 when was dna created uh siri i'm sorry for what you have

to deal with on a daily basis over there okay well so that's what i figured right on the cusp of it was like the late 80s that it became and that was the first time it was used in 86. So it wasn't even like widely used at that point. Sure. It wasn't for years. Like the 90s is when like forensic files and all this business finally started like picking up steam. Okay. So honeydew melon, not going to be very helpful unfortunately except to point out how gross this guy is. Yeah.

Of all things to eat really honeydew melon whatever okay so 35 year old computer engineer elias abitwath was shot with a gun to the temple before his wife sakina had been brutally raped she would later recall that during the assault he would yell don't look at me don't look at me she said i swear to god i won't and he replied don't swear to god swear to satan yep well and also i mean i know you're gonna answer this later so you don't have to answer it now but is he does he not even want to do this he thinks that he's being forced against his own will because don't look at me okay he's having a good time okay got it i think he just kind of added this in as like just another like he's not delusional like he

doesn't really think i mean that's a fine line because i feel like he did have some thoughts like oh my god it's divine intervention that this person was saved but i think only to the point that like we would think that right okay the universe has other plans but i don't think he was there was no like excuse of he was really in deep with the devil and had full on i think he used that as part of his like persona and like maybe believed it to an extent but this was all like his own okay i just didn't know because don't look at me don't look at me feels like he even he was ashamed or something. But okay. Well, there was a there wasn't much in the documentary about why he would say that. I mean, my thought is always like, you don't want someone to look at you when you're attacking them if you intend to keep them alive.

Right, right. That's always my first thought is like, if you look at somebody while they're attacking you, they're more likely to kill you because you've seen them and now you're a witness right it's my first thought but i mean it could also be you know he was missing all his teeth maybe he was like had issues about that or who knows um sure but wasn't really gone into in the documentary so now we move 10 days later to august 18th there was a man 66 years old named peter pan and i'm sorry what there was someone named peter pan yeah a 66 year old man named peter pan and uh well i mean and so it sounds like oh peter pan but also pan is a very common chinese and korean surname so okay like if you think about it true it's just somebody named Peter who happens to have, like, unfortunately has that, you know, really common name.

But Pan is... It's not as fantastical as I'm imagining, I guess. Yeah, I think Pan, I mean, I looked it up a little bit and it's a pretty common, as far as I can tell, Chinese and Korean last name. So you add Peter to it and there you go. So he was 66. He was found dead in his home in san francisco he had been shot in the head and was found lying in a pool of his own blood holy shit his wife barbara pan had been raped and shot in the head but still had a pulse and from the crime crime scene it was deduced that after the murder the killer had opened the refrigerator ate the food inside vomited on the kitchen floor and then masturbated on the living room carpet what before carving a

satanic symbol on the wall whoa okay yeah wow yeah that's a lot looney tunes wow so with this like very obvious mo i mean think about it all of this has happened in like the LA area so far. Now we're in San Francisco. But it's so spot on to the MO that Glendale PD is like, all right, we're heading to San Francisco. So they pick up. They go up to San Francisco. And when they're up there, the media gets a sniff of how this serial killer has moved from LA to San Francisco and has been drawing satanic symbols on the walls. So newsrooms get like flooded with this information and it gets to the point this is another like you want to pull your hair out where the mayor of san francisco diane feinstein holds a press conference where she reveals all the confidential information

that the police so far have begged media not to share such as the shoe print oh my god the size of the shoe print firearms evidence like the 22 caliber gun uh as well as an updated sketch of the of the person so so creo and salerno are livid like they are pissed pissed uh and creo even confesses in the documentary that it got to the point where he obviously like he didn't that it got to the point where he obviously like he didn't want more people to be murdered but he was like well now we need more evidence because exactly she just gave everything away um and so they were just living um so his prayers unfortunately were answered because on august 24th in mission viejo 29 year old inez erickson said a man entered her house shot shot her boyfriend Bill Carnes three times in the head, and then turned on her.

Oh my god. He told the woman that he was the Night Stalker and forced her to swear she loved Satan as he beat her with his fists and then bound her with neckties from the closet. What the fuck? I know. It's just like that shit. I don't know why this is blowing my mind. Like, I know none of this is good that's going to come out of your mouth. But it's just so all over the place.

It's like so chaotic and violent and back to back to back to back. Like it just doesn't stop. Jesus. It's awful. So after stealing what he could find, he dragged Erickson to another room. He raped her. He then demanded cash and more jewelry. Then he made her swear on satan that there was no more and before leaving the home he told erickson

tell them the night stalker was here so clearly at this point he's like leaving her alive to be the messenger yeah he like wants people to know he like now he's like all over this new nickname and he loves being like the scary villain so he tells her like you know tell the media i was here and yikes which like realistically he could have not like he could have just gotten away with it i mean i'm sure he gets away with it based on how the story already goes but like but like he could have still out there no he could have not said that or he could have picked a different name or something and totally thrown them off track. Like it's like almost like he wants to get caught now.

Oh, yeah. But yeah, you're right. But it's like that classic serial killer. Like they, you know, embrace that creepy name. And that's why so many times I say like, don't give them some like cool villain, super villain nickname because it's just going to like enforce their ego. So it's kind of like an iffy thing in my opinion but yeah so he was all about it i guess and said tell them and i mean at this point he probably

feels like he's invincible right basically is like he's done everything yeah he's probably wearing a new pair of shoes he's probably you know got new teeth got new teeth he's got new teeth he's walking around barefoot who knows so fortunately there was which sounds rough but there was a young 13 year old boy called james romero playing nearby on his bike when he saw the car pull up so he was able to remember a partial plate of the vehicle good for him when yeah i was like my dumb ass would have just not even i'd be like there goes a car especially at 13 yeah there goes a car covered in blood anyway back to my cool skateboard trick my razor scooter yeah back

to my kickflip my ollie so magically this child remembers a partial plate and uh he remembers that it was a an orange toyota station wagon So they released this to the media because now they're like, well, we have a car, we have a sketch, like hopefully this will actually get somebody to say I know that guy. So they release this to the media and someone phones up saying they know their friend's car of that description had recently been stolen. So at least now they know like this car is stolen and where it's stolen from. And amazingly, the car was located in a downtown L.A. parking lot. And this time they actually made sure to check it for fingerprints. They weren't like, oh, bravo.

Put it in it. Put it on top of the sun and let it burn into dust. And then we'll see. Yeah. Also, that feels kind of stupid. Like if you're going to steal a car, why would you steal an orange one? Like why wouldn't you steal the stealthiestiest car possible not the most flashiest that's a good point maybe he is just in that like jackass phase of like i'm unstoppable yeah you know i don't know an orange

station wagon really is probably the dumbest thing you could steal you're right there was a uh in fredericksburg growing up there was always this like 1950s chevy truck like you you know like the vintage trucks with like the bubbly yeah the bubbly kind of frame it was lime green and like you always knew that that guy was wherever he was because no one else had that fucking car why why why would you steal something so clear and obvious? Anyway. I know. There's no explanation. No explanation. But, I mean, thankfully, it did let them know that, you know, they figured out whose car it was pretty quickly because he stole such a ridiculous looking car.

And so they found it in a downtown parking lot. They were able to process it for fingerprints. And they were able to pull a latent fingerprint off the rearview mirror where the suspect had reached up and adjusted it. Wow. Isn't that wild? So they were able to get a print from just him adjusting the rearview mirror. And investigators now had a live fingerprint, but they weren't sure who it belonged to. So with information about this night stalker having been revealed publicly, the police get another call on August 27th with more information. A woman says her father, who hangs out by the Greyhound bus depot, had befriended an individual named Rick.

Oh, God. An individual he thinks might be the night stalker. Can you imagine just meeting someone and being like, that guy's a fucking serial killer? I'm just hanging out at the Greyhound bus stop and, oh, stop and oh boy this guy shows up yeah he gives off a real weird vibe he's a one of a kind yeah you must give off a real shitty vibe to be like that obviously a serial killer right so yeah so they call she calls us she's like my dad like says he knows this guy named rick and who like clearly fits this description and he looks like, my dad, like, says he knows this guy named Rick and who, like, clearly fits this description. And he looks like the photo or, like, the sketch you've put out.

All that good stuff. And so Carrillo and Salerno venture out to speak to the father directly. And he tells police that Rick, the guy he met, was from El Paso and had recently told him that he had committed a murder in Monterey Park. Cool, man. What a fun fact. Such an idiot. He really is like, he's really going for the full jackass. Right?

Like, look who I am. Yeah, he's like totally leaning into it at this point. Yeah. And I mean, to be fair, he's gotten away with murder literally dozens of times. So it's like, at this rate, he's probably expecting to get away with it. So the murder in Monterey Park was the murder of Dale Okazaki, which was the first one I talked about last week of where the roommate had the keys, Maria. And then he went in and killed Dale. So that was the murder in Monterey Park.

So in what seems to be the community gathering together to solve this crime in San Francisco, police informant Earl greg surrenders a bracelet he think might be linked to the night stalker case so this is all kind of happening in different parts of california different people are coming forward and saying like i have a piece of this i have a piece of this so he gives this bracelet he says i received the bracelet from my wife's mother who lived in san pablo and she told police she had received the bracelet from her boyfriend named armando rodriguez and armando had gotten the bracelet from his friend from el paso whom she only knew as rick oh and she they said can you describe rick and she said i don't really know anything about him except that he always wears a black acdc hat get out okay i know and so now they have like same guy or name rick from el paso acdc hat this is starting to fit together murder someone in monterey park yep so on august 30th armando

finally revealed the name of the person they're looking for his name is richard ramirez basically this was armando's friend so he was like fine eventually he was like i'll give in and give up his name so richard ramirez a man who had only been charged before with petty thievery and grand theft auto but nothing violent so he hadn't been charged with anything even close to the crimes they were now looking at so with this information the fingerprint of richard ramirez was matched to the print found in the car they have their freaking guy that's amazing finally jesus christ finally right okay finally finally so on august 31st 1985 they start tracking down richard ramirez once and for all and the place they go to is the greyhound bus depot because they learned that he had a locker there so they're like aha

he has actual stuff that he keeps at the greyhound bus station oh my gosh okay so at 8 15 a.m surveillance around the bus depot was like waiting lying in wait they are ready for ramirez to show up but they didn't really realize he had actually been in Arizona to visit his brother so while police think he's going to be entering the bus depot to make a trip he was actually returning from Arizona oh like leaving the bus depot okay which they weren't expecting they were like looking in the wrong direction basically so as soon as he arrived Ramirez spotted the undercover cops straight away so he walked out really quickly darted to a liquor store and he gets to the liquor store and he sees

these newspapers and his fucking face is all over these newspapers wow and so i mean i can't imagine the like full panic i know like when's the next bus when's the next bus somebody get me back to arizona yeah so his face is all over these newspapers he panics he walks out he jumps on a bus actually it goes down olympic and his plan was that he was going to his brother's house which was about eight miles away but on the bus he this is like out of a book on the bus he spots a passenger who was reading the morning paper and sees and so the person is reading the paper about him and fucking notices him oh my gosh and is like uh he sees him referring to the paper then looking up at him then looking down and being like oh my god like that face of

recognition yeah and so the passenger gets off the bus and ramirez is like fuck this guy's about to like he walks up to a pay phone and ramirez is like, fuck, this guy's about to like he walks up to a pay phone and Ramirez is like, oh, my God, this guy's calling the cops. Yeah. So he jumps off the bus. But what he didn't know is that way back at that liquor store, the man who was working there had already flagged down a truck from the gas company and said the killer just got on that bus. Because when he had wandered in the liquor store, the owner of the or the employee had recognized him and had already gotten like police on the case oh my god so he didn't even know he was already being tailed so when he jumps off the bus they're already like on the trail of this bus yeah so ramirez was chased down street several streets he ran across the freeway which

in la like amazed that you even survived i mean that's that's divine that's a feat of all the things that's satan's doing for sure that is definitely divine intervention so he tries to carjack a car but to no success and this is like probably the most uh what's the word like redeeming part of the video because you see this mob of locals just like get together and start chasing him like beauty and the beast style like they're basically coming at him with like pitchforks and they're chasing him down and uh he's running and running and running but he like gets exhausted and he gets circled by like just tons of people in the neighborhood and so all these local folks in this neighborhood are like surrounding him. And then a police car pulls up and they basically citizens arrest him like they basically pin him until police get there, which is just wild. So he's arrested by like the entire city of Los Angeles or like at least a local neighborhood like takes him down, which is just wild.

So Ramirez was brought back to Hollenbeck Police Station, and a lot of people had already gathered to, like, see him brought in because they knew what was happening. And then they drove him to San Quentin State Prison, and he was very excited, which is gross. He was very excited to be put in the same cell as the Hillside Strangler. Oh, my God. So he felt like – I know, hillside strangler oh my god felt like i know it's disgusting like he felt like it was an honor um and that guy's name was kenneth bianchi i've not covered him yet but i definitely plan on it so uh it was quickly discovered that ramirez was a student of serial killers like charles manson ted bundy hillside strangler so he was basically like enamored with these guys

and so when they put him in the cell uh they they were i guess they were trying to use it as a as a piece to butter him up to be like let's get him on our good side we'll put you in the special cell of the hillside that's actually kind of that's kind of genius like let's put you with your celebrity crush or like you're yeah wow isn't that cool like i'd be so bad at playing that part of like pretending to be buddy buddy with the serial killer but you know you gotta do it i guess sometimes so he's placed among a lineup and six-year-old survivor anastasia haronis who i talked about last episode identified him immediately which poor sweet girl six years old and has to a go through what she went through and then b has to stand there and like pick him

out from a lineup so she immediately is like that's the guy yeah and so his trial began july 22nd 1988 his court date or his court his trial was its own spectacle. I bet. This is where some of the famous stuff happens. Like he raised a hand with a pentagram drawn on his palm, which is the picture we see a million times everywhere, and said, Hail Satan. Okay. And then like, this is kind of a weird, there are a couple weird things that happen that are like creepy. So on August 14th, the trial was interrupted because one of the jurors phyllis singletary did not arrive at the courtroom later that day

she was found shot to death in her apartment oh yeah and the jury was terrified wondering like had ramirez somehow directed this from inside his prison cell like were the other jurors in danger as well yeah but it turns out that ramirez was not responsible for singletary's death she had been shot and killed by her boyfriend who later died by suicide using the same weapon so just happened to be while she was on this court case massive court case about a killer wow okay yikes that's so just really terrible terrible timing obviously tragic there was another here let me pull this up so this is weird so ramirez himself during the trial was like i mean unsurprisingly i already mentioned how he just put his hand up and yelled hail satan but he was really erratic he didn't like had no composure basically he was really erratic. He didn't like, had no composure, basically. He was repeatedly warned

to subdue his erratic behavior. Oh, by the way, this information about the trial is from Murderpedia, you know, my favorite website. And so he often joked along like with his counsel at the table while people while victims were testifying. And sobbing, I bet sobbing and crying and being re-traumatized and he's just like chumming it up yeah with his own lawyers who were like joking with him it was super gross which is also super gross about the lawyers like shouldn't the lawyers be like yo act like you fucking give a shit like you're not about to go to jail like yeah like they were called out for being part of this problem um which you're right is not even a good look for the case for their

case like it doesn't seem like it's gonna go well for you um so apparently he laughed a lot he joked with his attorneys he even cackled loudly like during testimony oh my god yeah and once he laughed loudly during a young widow's testimony like you know he killed her fucking husband and uh she several spectators were crying as she tearfully described how her assailant had raped and beaten her while her slain husband lay nearby and he would like he started laughing and then he sneered openly at the prosecution and you can see like photos of the crime of um if you would look at photos of the crime scene that were being presented he would start smiling like every time they put up a new like extra horrific photo of a crime scene he

would like smile in like satisfaction just awful just so gross um another kind of creepy thing that happened is that suddenly you know he was flashing these satanic symbols and saying like i follow satan and all this business and then all of a sudden all the court lights went out it was like turned off what and i know and the deputy marshals drew their pistols and told everyone to hit the floor and then they dragged ramirez out of the courtroom and like restarted the trial later but like nobody knows what that was about what the hell it may have just been like a weird power outage but like with his satanic stuff people were like extra freaked out as you would be you know and you know he's like like slimily laughing the whole time yes like even if he didn't cause it but

like just said how perfect the timing was yes and you're you're right you probably did believe it was like another divine intervention like satan was here i mean oh sicko gross he would also stare down the witnesses at the podium like trying to fluster them basically uh he like knew you know obviously that fear was something he could control people with uh the judge was like fuck your mind games and basically told yelled at him to stop now yeah and of course he didn't stop and he tested the warning again and he started like doing his weird glare i mean if you look him up he's very scary looking he did his like creepy glare slash stare at the anybody who's testifying and so the judge nodded to the bailiff the bailiff physically yanked his head in the other direction oh my god and he grunted so ramirez grunted and leaped his feet and attacked the bailiff for like moving his head and within seconds he was overcome by courtroom guards and they dragged him out to

his holding cell so it's just not not an easy going guy in court he's good together well i mean he's literally a murderer so whatever come on bud what happened to you get it together shake it off shake off your cares shake it off cremate your cares my friend cremate your cares my friend the owl is waiting the walter cronkite owl oh my god i will never get over that so there were 165 witnesses who addressed the court. Most of them brought damaging testimony against the defendant. And witness after witness for the prosecution had sworn under oath, being like, that is the guy.

That's the guy. I know it is. Under oath, that's him. I remember his words. I remember him cursing to the devil. I remember his eyes. They like full on knew it was him, no question. uh i remember his eyes they like full-on knew it was him no question and weirdly enough there was apparently a juror who had to be replaced after a week because they kept falling asleep during

the proceedings which like how that man i'm assuming i didn't know i don't know if it's a man or not that person needs to be uh they need to go to a doctor for narcolepsy or something because like i can't imagine ever falling asleep as a juror. But also, especially during this case, I don't think that person had a choice that they were sleeping. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It's probably not boredom. It's like an illness. They need to get checked out.

I think they're overstimulated and their body is shutting down or something. Yeah, so it's just another weird uh situation weird so like i said there were plenty of survivors who testified against him and on september 20th 1989 ramirez was convicted of all charges which were 13 counts of murder five attempted murders 11 sexual assaults and 14 burglaries wow And then during the penalty phase of the trial on November 7th, 1989, he was sentenced to die in California's gas chambers and he commented

to reporters, big deal, death always went with the territory, see you in Disneyland. What the f- I knew about the see you in Disneyland thing, but I didn't know it was- I didn't know it was him. I knew someone had said that, but I didn't know it was him. I didn't re- I like vaguely knew that, but i didn't know it was i didn't know it was him i knew someone had said that but i know it was him i didn't remember i like vaguely knew that but i didn't remember it was him either the hell the cu and disneyland mean like in paradise or something i don't know i don't know what the hell that means i don't know if it means anything

hey i mean he doesn't sound like a stable person and like i should go far from it i shouldn't try to figure out what he's saying but still i it's odd okay yes uh that is definitely an understatement yes he's very odd um so i just want to add a couple things here too so years later uh his father maintained even after he was put away after all this went down maintained that richard was a good boy quote-unquote whose marijuana consumption is what put him out of control okay uh sure and they kind of okay so his father and some other people kind of blamed rock music specifically acdc and pot smoking for the behavior which like okay wasn't this like during like the satanic panic of sex, drugs, and rock and roll and all that? Yes, 80s. Mm-hmm. Like, rock and roll's dangerous.

Pot will send you straight to hell. Yeah. All this business. So he often drew the five-point pentagram on his own body. He screamed, Hail Satan, regularly, like I said, even in open court. He was a big fan of rock bands who sang about satanism particularly ecdc whose album highway to hell was his favorite and one song on that album night prowler contains the following lyrics ready was that a noise outside your window what's that shadow on the blind as you lie there

naked like a body in a tomb suspended animation as i slip into your room and night prowler night stalker can you imagine being acdc and finding out the like your like like this guy not only like loved you but like was wearing your merch and shit like and yeah and was like inspired by your lyrics as an homage to you in the middle of killing. Sick. If anyone out there listening to this has even thought about doing something violent, please never wear our stuff. And don't ever blame it on us. We do not want you to do that. Don't ever think we would condone it because we wouldn't.

We don't want that. Just like ACDC doesn't want Richard Ramirez murdering people, we don't want people either murdering people. We do want you to adopt a lot of little animals doesn't want Richard Ramirez murdering people we don't want people either murdering people we do want you to um adopt a lot of little animals and we want you to drink a lot of London fogs and also get vaccinated so like wear our merch for that you know we have a lot of demands and killing is not one of them that's true all right it's true great so you know obviously it's hard to believe that rock music and marijuana turns anyone into serial killer, but that was the, you know, 80s cliche, like you said.

So anyway, I just want to say too, like a lot of that was from Stanford.edu and Murderpedia, my faves. And a lot of it was just like, you know, direct statements from there. So I want to point that out. from there so i want to point that out and uh so this is where things get kind of gross which is basically that on it not surprisingly there were some people who got completely swept up by ramirez who were in love with him uh he had fans and wannabe lovers who were writing him letters and paying him visits beginning in 1985 doreen loy wrote ramirez nearly 75 letters during his incarceration and then in ADA he proposed to her and on October 3rd of 1996 they were married in San Quentin State Prison oh my god and she was so it's gross she was so obsessed with him that for many years before his death she stated she

would die by suicide when Ramirez was executed oh my god like that's how that happened infatuated i don't know it did not happen okay i don't understand why you know how could you understand but so she eventually left ramirez in 2009 once he was tied i mean at least at least she has some standard which is that he was tied by dna evidence to the murder of nine-year-old may lung in 1984 so once his dna tied him to a murder of a nine-year-old girl loy was like i'm out okay well i'm glad finally something i didn't know morals could fall all the way down there but i'm glad that you found there's one down there yeah that you could pick up you found one great but it reminds me of his quote-unquote which was like, I don't kill kids unless I

have to, you know. Okay. I will assault them and make, you know, ruin their lives. But yeah, I won't kill them because I'm a good guy. Okay. Whatever. So on April 10th, 1984, Richard ramirez took his uh this is backtrack richard ramirez has taken his first presumptive victim nine-year-old may lung was beaten and raped before she was stabbed

to death uh this is bad she was then hung over a pipe in the basement of her apartment in san francisco whoa yeah wow and uh richard ramirez was not executed because on june 7 2013 which sounds really recent to me uh he died of b-cell lymphoma at marion general hospital or marin i'm not sure at 53 years old he had been on death row for more than 23 years and by some estimates he would have been in his early 70s before his execution was carried out if he had survived. Wow. So anyway, that's the story with like another thrown in horrible story right at the end there. But that's the story of Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker.

And I highly recommend the documentary. It is so well done. So, so scary. It really, really scared me, which as someone who watches these for funsies for breakfast time, like that's saying something. Yeah. So. Wow. Check it out.

Wow. I actually don't think I know what. My first two-parter. Your first two-parter. I'm so proud of you. Do you feel good about it? Thank you. Yeah, it was great because I feel like since last week I was able to like ponder some things and like think about what you had asked about like his name you get us you get

you know getting that hand a redemption episode of like all your yeah it's kind of like anything that was lost in translation get to clear up yeah i'm i'm i'm googling a picture of him just because i don't i don't think i oh yeah google it you know I right yeah I mean I knew I kind of had a vague idea of what he looked like this I'm it's kind of like a vampire he does look a little bit like a vampire he and it's so fascinating eventually if I don't know if this is something that would interest you but at some point you should do a whole episode on just the psychology of people falling in love with serial killers because like I would love to do that because i mean it happened with bundy right i don't know if there's if it's happened oh yeah it's happened with anyone else but like why oh

it happens all the time really all the time yeah it's it's a really strange like i think typically what people think it is is um like a savior complex. Like I can change them. They would never do this to me is at least what I've seen most theories are. But I think there's probably a lot that goes into that kind of thought process. It's something I'll never wrap my head around about like just knowing what they, okay, well, whatever. Anyway, that's just super wild to me. But I would love an episode on that one day

because i that's a great idea i would love to know at least even the statistics if there's any i don't know how you like survey that but like it would be interesting to see how many people have had at least one person romantically obsessed with them you know that's a great idea well i'll look i'll look into like what is available yeah for research if it's something that's even like worth it. I know there's a lot of topics I'd like to cover, but there's just not enough information on it. So yeah, it sounds fascinating. Anyway, thank you. I'm proud of you for your your two parter. And this was definitely like a topic worth a two parter. You know, you inspired me with your multi parters. I inspired you you by a QAnon, so that's nice. We knew it would someday happen. I just didn't know it would be that avenue that would take me to inspiration lane. Well, thank you to everyone who's listening. If you want to go check out any of our stuff, our social media is atwwpodcast.

We also have our website, and that's where you drink.com. You can send in your listeners' stories, your personal listener stories, to either the website, and that's where you drink.com, or to, and that's where we drink.com you can send in your uh listeners stories your personal listener stories to either the website and that's what you're.com or to and that's why we drink at gmail and that's why we drink at gmail.com just go to go with the the website the website's the easiest place and um also if you do want to play the escape room join patreon there's also some cool stuff on there outside the escape room but i just made it so i'm most proud of that currently and yeah i just saw the patreon newsletter is amazing oh yeah this this month it's really great and uh yeah that's it and that's all i got that's why we drink