And That's Why We Drink - E222 The Wine Kill Switch and the Paranormal Vagina Monologues

Episode Date: May 9, 2021

It's Em's lucky episode 222 and the rumors are true... Christine is with demon! We're dishing all the details on reactions and reliving the wild pregnancy genius that is The Maltese Bagans (created because a certain famed demon hunter yet again did not respond to Christine's pleas). Then Em takes on a story just dripping in ectoplasm from every orifice, the story of medium Eva Carrière (NOT to be confused with our Eva, for reasons that will soon become clear). Afterward, Christine takes us to New South Wales, Australia to cover the brutal and heartbreaking case of the Lin family murders and a daughter so incredible we can't send her enough love and light. We also debate the use of planchettes as teething toys... and that's why we drink! Watch the Maltese Bagans here: bit.ly/andthatswhyidontdrinkPlease consider supporting the companies that support us!Go to Canva.me/atwwd to get your FREE 45-day extended trial! If you go to reliefband.com and use promo code DRINK you’ll receive 20% offplus free shipping and a no questions asked 30-day money back guarantee! Go to DAILYHARVEST.com and enter promo code DRINK to get $25 off your first box!Try 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com/drinkStay fresh, stay clean with Native by going to NativeDeo.com/drink for 20% off your first order! Go to Curology.com/drink for a free 30-day trial, just pay for shipping and handling!

hello christine what's cooking man oh my god what is going on you little pregnant crazy person what's going on the cat's out of the back folks you are with demon and i'm very excited about it i am with demon and um my catholic grandmother just rolled over in her grave. Yay! But, yes, you all, you're right. The rumors are true. I am pregnant, and I'm so excited to be able to complain about it openly. And now I get to wear this in public. Oh! Oh, I'm so happy you wore it!

Yay! I have almost accidentally worn it on like three instagram lives and then i went oh and then it's a funkle m sweatshirt for those of you who aren't watching the youtube yeah it's a it's a a charming a charming simple sweatshirt which i appreciate and like a different a little duo duo chromatic color block situation love a good color block but then you gave me the little tinge of buffalo plaid yeah you know i made that on uh photoshop actually because it was uh i thought you were gonna say on your fucking cricket i i actually bought this is not a joke i bought buffalo plaid uh vinyl for shirts but then i was like i should just order it online

because i don't trust myself to make this um but yeah it's true i am uh okay this is the one the big thing so i posted about it okay there's a lot but first of all i posted the video uh the maltese baggins which let's start let's do a deep dive because i still have questions i don't know it's really chaotic it's it's i tried to get zach to tell Em the news and he fucking fully ignored me and nobody's surprised. I mean, like true to form, he did exactly what was expected of him. So he didn't like lower anyone's expectations. He met our standards. He maintained them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, what? First of all, what a wild way. I think like a while ago, I'm sure you remember this, but just to refresh everyone else's memory. At some point I said like, oh, if you ever got pregnant, like I would expect a really like a while ago i'm sure you remember this but just to refresh everyone else's memory at some point i said like oh if you ever got pregnant like i would expect a really like like extravagant reveal for no reason because i'm not actually involved in this but i am um i think i was

pregnant when you said that and i'm pretty sure i was in the midst of this and i was like i don't know we'll see him well i'm glad that we were on each other's wavelength then. Yeah. But I remember saying that. And then the first time I was watching the video, I was like, wow, she really delivered. I was like, I did not expect her to try to. She literally had our manager try to reach out to Zach's team, who, by the way, also ignored her, right?

Yes. That made me feel better that I wasn't the only one being blatantly ignored. Like our manager was ignored. Our manager had some PR folks reach out. They were ignored. Like we really tried and it really failed. They probably were like, oh, and that's why we drank the show that just bitches about you all the time.

We're not even going to entertain them with an email. No, we're not even going to read their message. So it was painful. And so I made a film noir video to to kind of represent my sadness and um i just forced zach into the video itself so uh that's really i mean award winning it hasn't happened yet but it should be that was the the insanity it took to create that um is exactly again you met everyone's standards well i appreciate this is acted because i because you know maintaining standards uh on my end is a lot more work than him maintaining his standards which is just

ignoring this but you know his is do nothing and yours is do everything humanly possible i don't top uh top myself but so i um tell us your story how did you find out oh my god okay well first of all i was gonna say i'm gonna make a video soon about people's reactions to me telling them because i had this weird um it probably tells me something about myself and i probably need to do some introspection because the top three responses so lisa when i told aunt lisa i got her a starbucks cup and i had like i had them put great aunt lisa on the um sticker like on the starbucks cup so i gave her that and i was like they spelled your name wrong and she's like oh that's okay and i was like well maybe you should read it and so she read it and then she screamed you bitch and i was like okay and then i told

renee and renee was like fuck you and then i told em with this video and em facetimed me and went you pregnant psycho and i was like what am i what have I done to deserve this like really antagonistic response? Mine was fucking justified, by the way, because I had just seen this Zach Bagans creation that came out of like the 3 a.m. folds of your mind. And I was like, only a crazy person could make this. So calling you a pregnant psycho felt fair. No, yours is the only justified one. You're completely right. I will say a lot of people have already asked me, because I just did Movie Monday, and a lot of people asked me what my reaction was and if there was a recording of it.

And I want to defend myself before people come at me, because Allison made a bold fucking call. four people come at me because allison made a bold fucking call and uh apparently so i christine told allison before and then they were conspiring to get me to hide a camera somewhere and film me watching this video for the first time allison shows 30 seconds after a deep sleep yeah you were in nap time mode i was in it was one of those naps where like you wake up and you're like what year is it 30 seconds later i was on a couch watching a video that that video so i still thought i was in the middle of a goddamn fever dream and i remember just i did not look happy i was so confused because I was like, what am I still asleep? This cannot be a real thing. And then at some point, I figured it out. And when I when you hear on the video, like

Christine's pregnant, I I kind of also didn't have a reaction because I've already told you this. But for the like the last two or three months, I have been telling Allison, I was like, I think Christine's pregnant. I think Christine's pregnant. I've been saying it nonstop. And then when it said Christine's pregnant, I was like, son of a bitch. I was right. Yeah. A couple of people have commented and been like, yeah, I kind of had a feeling because somebody said, nobody drinks Gatorade, solely Gatorade for several months without a reason. And I was like, hmm. Okay. But I did, to be fair. OK, but you don't drink booze. So it's kind of like, why do I keep insisting on how many different Gatorade flavors I'm drinking? I see.

That was a good astute observation. I thought so, too. So people were very kind and very supportive. People were very kind about the video, which is on YouTube. I'm going to do a video of people's reactions, even Em's stoic and like. It was so, I really wish that we filmed me watching it the second time after... I know, I'm so bummed it didn't film the second watch. After I processed what was happening, I watched it with fresh eyes to be like,

let's just like really go into how fucking crazy Christine's brain is. And then I was cackling and laughing and having the reaction everyone wanted and it didn't get filmed. Oh, I wish that was filmed. Oh, well. is and then I was cackling and laughing and having the reaction everyone wanted and it didn't get filmed oh well I'm sorry I'm sorry to the little baby that you're gonna see me looking really disappointed that you're here I think this baby will be fine because everyone is so kind and supportive and the people's favorite thing so Alexander made a good point the other day he's like I think Emma and i are getting more praise and excitement than blazes like yeah yes it's just so funny people are like funko em and funko sandy i've been getting so many people have been sliding into my dms just saying like congrats

funko em and i've been like is blaze get it like congrats dad like is this happening no i wouldn't have it any other way perfect and also i i just want to say for the thousandth time and i will say it a million times more i cannot wait to ruin this baby with creepy things like i can't wait to be i can't wait to just drop this baby off at summer camp and never and just leave for three months and i'm gonna teach this kid like i i know that we are distanced now, so I really have to make my time worth it when I'm around this child. I'm going to teach them how to, like, point at a corner and just, like, kind of talk to themselves. No, that's not nice.

And then just walk away. And then just leave you kind of stunned. Just remember that whatever you do to my child, someday I will get retribution, depending on what level of evil. Joke's on you. I'm going to have the weirdest kid whether or not you're involved you're only gonna enhance this thing okay fine fine I'm prepared for my kid to be creep factor 3000 so like if you want to make a creep factor 4000 I encourage it do whatever you gotta do I will just don't hand it a goddamn Ouija board okay well that's my one ask everything else you're cool that was the only thing I wanted to do okay whatever you can let And don't hand it a goddamn Ouija board, okay? Well. That's my one ask. Oh, come on. That was the only thing I wanted to do.

Okay, whatever. You can let them chew on the pendant or something. But that's it. What's it called? The planchette. Planchette. Let them chew on a planchette. You need to go to Ouija, to go school again.

I also wanted to say people are excited about Funko Lam and people are excited that it's an october baby because it's gonna be a spooky season halloween baby the only thing is it's cutting it a little i was hoping it would be closer to scorpio season just for m's sake just so the universe could punch me right in the stomach uh-huh i was hoping but no so it's october 1st the due date which is like smack dab in the middle of libra season but my mother told me i was born exactly three weeks late to the day so i actually was meant to be a taurus which i can't picture um and i was i know i was no offense to taurus but like i i don't think i'd vibe with you as well if we weren't on the same chaotic gemini level yeah i can't fathom it would be totally different but different. But so I was meant to be a Taurus,

but so I was born three weeks to the day late. And if this baby is born three weeks to the day late, well, then we're all in big trouble. I'd be like, the show's over. We gotta go. I told, when I called Christine and said like, congratulations after I watched the video, the first thing out of Christine's mouth was,

it might be a Scorpio. And I went, the second it might be a scorpio and i went i went the second it's even near scorpio season you just got to start pushing like it'll figure it out it'll realize what you're doing i'm gonna call the the ob and be like you need to induce this person this pregnant lady just go to the hospital refuse to leave they'll have to put take the baby out they have to oh my god anyway so you know we'll see. But it's not going to change anything for the show. No, but everyone was really kind. Like, nobody was like, oh, no.

You know, I mean, everyone was just, like, super supportive and kind. And yeah, it's not going to change anything for the show. We're still planning on, you know, retouring. I don't know the proper word, but. Yes. And also, we plan on still having weekly episodes for you um we're not i'm not a monster i'm i'm letting christine like have maternity leave i'm not saying we have

we're we're doing backlog recordings coming up so by the time uh the baby's here uh christine gets a nice little break and you will still get your weekly content so no worries there nothing's gonna be it'll just probably be me complaining a lot more which i mean it's hard to imagine since we do it already so much but um question at what point do i get to see your little belly because i well you know i haven't seen it i'm 19 weeks now and i feel like i'm finally starting and i you know i have a a storied past with um your belly well sort of twtw with like eating disorder stuff so i've been very uh very like dealing with the changes of like oh now my stomach's gonna be huge and it's supposed to be that way you

know what i mean educational moment i didn't realize that that would that pregnancy could trigger that which like did not even occur to me because in my mind it would be like well it's expected that it would happen but i guess it could very well bring up trauma yeah it's sort of one of those things where you're like your brain knows obviously this is good and supposed to happen but then like you're kind of i see at least my instinctual reaction is like, oh, no, but obviously, well, then excuse my ignorance. No, no, no, no, no, that's so that's not that's sorry. I just meant that as a side note. But so I'm like, I guess when this comes out, I'll be 19 weeks, which is supposedly when it starts to be, you know, more prominent. But I,

as you know, wear giant shirts anyway. So I feel like it'll be a few more weeks till it's like I can't hide it anymore yes sir so are you so as the pregnancy goes further I mean we can delete this if this is too TMI but as if that as the pregnancy goes further and your stomach gets bigger will your trauma be more intense from I don't think so because i think it'll be more of like oh it's not just like that i'm like gaining a little weight it's like oh this is my body's completely different i don't think it'll be an issue and i've definitely like gotten kind of over it because you know i had to but um no i don't know i'll be i'll be totally fine i'm excited i uh I've got some nice new...

Look, I got my tie. This is actually a maternity shirt. It's a little tie-dye sweatshirt. Okay, but wait. Considering I'm like two or three sizes bigger than you, can I just have that after you have the baby? Absolutely. Because that would fit me quite nicely.

That's the thing is like all the clothes I bought, I'm like, I'm just replacing my entire wardrobe because everything is just XL and baggy and stretchy. I'm like, oh my God, I'm never wearing anything else again. Like, why would I ever wear tight clothes again? You know, I've already said this to you, but the only true curse of this pregnancy is that you are on the other side of the country and finally have the same eating habits as I do. I've actually cried about it twice now. Think of the cheesecake we

could fit into our stomachs right now. It's actually like really like the first time I thought about it I hadn't told you yet and so it was really hard because I was like I can't even like express this to Em how we can't even have a Zoom date where we eat a lot but then the second time I cried about it was when you said it and I was like I haven't said it because I didn't want to like make it a thing but when you said it I was like now we both understand how sad this is the first time we finally are both always hungry always hungry it could be a real nightmare on our watch actually one thing I've been meaning to tell you that I wanted to wait for the show is that the biggest pregnancy craving I have had is sandwiches all year sandwiches it's the I predicted this you are not fucking around like i all i want

is sandwiches day and day it doesn't matter what kind i mean i don't eat meat so it's like you know either vegetarian sandwiches or egg and cheese or pb and j or pb and banana i mean sandwiches day and day out and like it is i literally called it is the year of the sandwiches it was killing me not telling you that wow i am i think a magician yeah you also apparently said this might be the year we meet our kids and so i'm like christine you do say that every year to be fair i actually take it back i'm a sorcerer apparently everything i say is fact uh this is the year of the sandwich oh my god yeah so that's okay that's sorry one more thing and then i'm totally done with this

and we go into the show whatever but you're having a baby we're allowed to have a whole thing everyone understands so i've i've known since january 19th m's known for about i don't know three or four weeks or something uh yes probably a good month a good month um and so it's been killer not saying anything but and i was really nauseous those first three months. So if you listen back, I probably don't. I mean, I'm pretty good at acting. But I was probably a little bit nauseated. But the only other thing that was really tough not saying anything was the week where my

app said, your baby is the size of a lemon. And I was like, I wanted to share that so badly. And I was like, I had to send it to my mom. And she was like, oh, that's nice. And I was like, no, you don't understand. So my mother-in-law was all over it. And I was like, thank you, Sherry, because I needed someone to appreciate the fun fact. What size are they right now?

This week, a bell pepper. Or a bagel. A bagel. They're a little bagel bite well a big bagel okay but they're the appropriate size bagel but they're my little bagel boys and let me see when it comes out when this comes out let's see what my last week was a croissant and i was like absolutely not i want nothing to do with this but i have one app that tells me like 90s style stuff like um that's fun yeah it's really fun like like your baby's the size of a bop it like literally oh my god can you imagine if it was the shape of a bop it just don't bop it you know please don't don't twist it don't bop it don't slam it don't shake it don't shake it don't shake it. Don't bop it. Don't slam it. Don't shake it. Don't shake it. Don't shake it.

Let's see. The one that was, oh, a slingshot. Well, that seems dangerous. And not 90s. And also not 90s. I don't know where my, I may or may not have like 11 apps that I use to just have different fun facts every day. It's actually kind of obnoxious.

If it's a bell pepper, then I'm thinking like a koosh ball, you know? Oh, yeah. That's a good one. I haven't seen that one yet. A Nerf football, maybe. No, that's too big. Because last week it was a cassette tape. Precious.

So I thought that was kind of fun. Okay. I think this is the one. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Emma, I have so also you said um you said uh that i know this is obvious because you're pregnant but wine apparently is the thing that's made you the most sick yes you know like the smell or the thought of wine has made you like ill nauseous beyond all belief like the thought of the honestly the thought of red wine is repulsive

and i'm convinced that my body was like we will not survive this like the baby will not survive unless we make christine like we have to avoid the wine yeah exactly like the kill switch on wine is has been activated i want nothing to do with it which is the wildest thing i've ever experienced because what you know it just doesn't make any sense um so i'm very thankful about that because you know it could be i feel like it could be harder um you know what i don't know i'm i'm gonna find this later because i don't i have so many stupid apps that i don't actually know which one has i'm rocking with a koosh ball i like a koosh ball that's probably that koosh ball. That's probably not wrong.

Let's see. Oh, next week it'll be the size. Oh, last week it was the size of a cheesecake. Look at this. Get out of fucking town. I'm telling you. It's been really hard not fucking harassing you every day about this. So now that I've been let loose out of my cage, I'm going to be just a disaster.

So I apologize to everybody. I can't wait. Oh, I can't wait. I'm going to get the app too, like a true uncle. And just I'll be like, did you know that your baby's the size of a cheesecake now? Two cheesecakes actually. An entire cheesecake. Yes.

So anyway, that's my fun fact of the day. Now that's not about me anymore. No worries. I guess that's my fun fact of the day uh now that's not about me anymore no worries uh it i guess that's it i mean that there's no other reason why we should drink this week i think that's just it uh i drink gatorade as always so as as always apparently yeah i uh i'm drinking tea the end no surprise there society yeah i'm bored all right so if you enjoyed the last half an hour of pregnancy updates we're gonna quickly take a turn sorry this is probably i don't know if i want to tell you yet i'm gonna i'm gonna leave it i'm gonna make you wait for it okay but this is the story also this is episode 222 my lucky that's

right you're welcome just saying thank you for raining on my parade but in the best way we all knew i would do it i know i love it i'm very excited good news i so okay so this story is um i don't know how to say the name properly because it's French, but I'm thinking it's Martha Barode. Because it's Martha with an E at the end instead of an A. Martha Barode? Probably Marta. Marta Barode? It doesn't matter because she changes her own name.

And this is also the story of Eva. She couldn't pronounce it either. Her name's Eva. Wow. Okay. Eva Carriere. Oh, my god eva c is what i'm gonna call her and that's what she also went by a lot of times so eva c was it eva like the french like the european version i don't know i really don't know i should have watched like

one youtube video and i didn't i'm sorry it throws me off because no but it's hard like you'd think it'd be easier to find pronunciation things but it throws me off because no but it's hard like you'd think it'd be easier to find pronunciation things but it throws me off because Eva um obviously is pronounced Eva but for my aunt's name is spelled the same way but it's Ava or Ava and so it took me a long time to get that right so I don't know that's the only reason I ask I am going to ignorantly Americanize it and just say Eva because that say it the way. It's just how I've heard it in my head this whole time. And now I can't undo it.

It's kind of like how I still don't think of her as Hermione. Because when I read the books, I thought her name was Hermwine. That's so much worse. Because I thought it was Hermione. That makes a lot more fucking sense. Or there's I've heard Hermione. There's been quite a few. Hermoine did you say her boy her wine that's rough dude that's really rough so now i can never that's all i hear her so now when i look at her on tv i never think oh there's

hermione i think there's her one that's real rough man her one is a new level it's like one and wine there's like a tang there's like i'm from wine yeah it sounds like i mean it sounds like i'm in reverse it sounds like you're underwater in reverse yeah uh but so this i have so i've been reading this for many moons uh as eva so okay just do eva i'm sorry to even go there. Not necessary on my part. No. Uh, so, uh,

Mart or Marta, Martha Barode, AKA Eva Carrier, AKA Eva C also known by some, uh, like some reports as the queen of ectoplasm. Oh, Oh,

okay. So this, if, I don't want any more photos. Are there more photos of ectoplasm. Oh, okay. So this, if... I don't want any more photos. Are there more photos of ectoplasm? Because I didn't love that. I forgot about it. And yes. So now that you've said that...

No, no. Why do I keep... I can't keep my mouth shut. Let me find it. You know what's so... What's also really weird, or not really weird, but this is for people who feel like they recognize that name, you might have recently played the escape room. Because just like how Helen Duncan, who I mentioned three episodes ago, who was known for her mediumship and ectoplasm and how she ends up being debunked. She got mentioned in my recent escape room and also so did eva c which um you can still get on patreon

by the way do it also i'm i'm gonna call her eva but to like our eva as the story goes on i am so sorry and you're gonna know what i'm talking about it just i'm just so sorry i can't it's hard to it's hard to use eva's name because the story gets a little insane and I we're gonna have to change the name when I get to that point because I can't it gets a little x-rated so why don't you say Ava then okay Ava you're right okay I couldn't do it I couldn't the whole time I was reading this I was like okay so can I add a fun fact before we start I'm sorry yeah I couldn't find the 90s but i did find um a millennial version that says the baby is the size of a pint of ice cream so there you go fun oh my gosh okay super fun okay that's your fun fact uh put you in a good headspace before whatever

the hell is about to happen it's about to be a real ride and And again, so sorry to our Eva. Okay, so yeah, we're gonna call her Ava just to get through this. So a very quick early upbringing we've got here. So Ava was born in 1886. She is the oldest of three girls. Her dad was in the military and they lived in Algeria. That's basically all we know about her youth okay uh as a teenager Ava was engaged to a guy named Maurice Noel or Noel I'm not sure I think it's Noel and she even lived with his family at their villa okay okay and it was called villa carmen so she lived at villa carmen with her fiance and this again she was like a young teenager i think like 17 or 18 and at 18 in 1904 uh her fiance went to the congo and apparently died there from a tropical disease oh no and so he never came back and she was i guess i don't know what widowed means when it's your fiance but she was now just living on his family's property and didn't know what to do with herself but his death interestingly seemed to have sparked psychic abilities in her so um i'm going

to take off the funko lem sweatshirt because it's really hot and i did it for attention and now it's over so i've honored you wore it so i appreciate you doing that oh boy i keep moving the camera away from you look you know what you're nobody needs it i i'm not i'm not an attractive sweatshirt take off. I beg to differ. Well, actually, now that I'm watching it, I'm not so sure. This is really questionable. Also, I've got headphones.

I don't know. Yeah, this is, hasn't been planned properly. Not cute. I didn't think this one through. Okay. Beautiful. So, so her fiance's death sparked her abilities. Beautiful.

So her fiancé's death sparked her abilities. And so her in-laws, they introduced her to seances because their son had passed and her fiancé had passed and spiritualism was kind of, you know, hippin' and happenin'. And so they were like, oh, well, let's start doing seances at our villa. And so they originally had a different medium who did these seances for them but after about a year of ava watching this happen um and like observing the seances learning about them she ended up feeling pretty confident in it and she was like i can just do these myself so love it she started she started being the one to host seances on the property and she was able to materialize spirits like with ectoplasm like how quickly did you just learn to do that but okay um not shady don't be jealous and some people are just naturally talented okay she's just a girl boss um wow that got me by surprise oh by the way just for um millennials abound the

the gen z's have a new name for us it is uh chugi i don't want to know why what's that it it's um it's pretty much like girl boss energy why is it chugi i don't know what where the word came from i don't know what it means but i do know that like the Gen Z's are calling us that. Not loving the sound, not loving the sound of the word, but it's kind of like basic bitch meets like Christian autumn girl, you know? Oh no, like, but first coffee and Jesus. Yes. Yes.

That's super Cheugy, which like apparently it's like Live Laugh Lemon. Oh, yikes. How do you spell it? C-H-E-U-G. C-H-E-U-G? What the hell is that? I have no idea where it came from, but like Live Laugh Lemon, wearing scarves with everything, girl boss, saying girl boss. Okay okay i'm literally looking uh chevron

chevron you know like uh you know anything that's like kind of basic bitchy so basic right so over overdone and uh like wood blocks with like nice words on them or like you know little inspirational moments i'm literally looking to list everything you're saying is appearing in front of my eyes as oh really yeah like live laugh love the wood blocks uh juicy apparently juicy sweat suits uh uggs people like disney adults when you say like people who say doggo that's choogy sorry what about fur babies i bet you that's choogy as hell oh i'm sure i'm sure it is and apparently, like, Saturdays are for the boys. Like, guys can be choogy, too. Thank God at least boys get to be it, too.

I'm so tired of being targeted. But anyway, so it's like a... I don't know if it's meant as a... Minions! Sorry. Minions, yeah. Yep. I don't know if it's meant to be an insult.

It looks kind of like an insult to me, but maybe. It's just, I think it's like their way of categorizing like very overhyped things that we did when we were like the cool generation. Yeah, it sounds sad. It says- Ugg boots, choogy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It says it's the opposite of trendy.

It's no longer in style. And it's the word you never knew you needed which i am i am proud at least that i'm not a person that says girl boss or uh live left love without the lemon part in it so at least i can feel a little better to defend myself against it but i cannot believe i've never heard of this oh my god chugi feels like if you went if you like went to college in our generation and like everyone was like i feel like everyone had the uh the the scarves like that they wore with everything and all that the scarves like those infinity scarves tori birch sandals oh my god uh tori birch sandal that i mean these this is getting

a little painful to hear it's exactly the person you're like if you're thinking of like like people who are like i don't know you, you get it. You get it. I completely get it. And honestly, you know what I was thinking about yesterday that now I'm like extra thinking and I'm actually don't feel guilty about thinking of it anymore. Is like when I have my child and they're a little bit older, I cannot wait for Gen Z to fucking experience this because they're going to be like, what? I thought we were the cool ones. And it's like, welcome to our fucking club where you bully the shit out of us. And then I think it's like welcome to our fucking club where you bully the shit out of us and then uh guess what the cycle continues it's a weird initiation into being an adult because we did

the exact same shit to our parents absolutely and they told us you'll know how this feels in a couple years don't worry you'll know how this feels and we were like yeah and we were wearing like yeah a tory birch seagull one foot and an ugg boot on the other, flat iron hair. And now Gen Z is doing it to us. And I'm trying to embrace it because I'm like, you know what? What comes around goes around. It's like, I did it. It's going to happen to them. It's just the circle of life.

But wow, it really does hurt. It does. I'm too sensitive for this shit. Anyway, we really derailed there. But basically, Ava's being a little choogy here with her girl boss ways. Girl boss? So yeah, so she's being a little choogy here with her girl boss ways. Girl boss? So, yeah. So she's being a girl boss.

So anyway, there's that. Live off love. Doing her own seances after like a year and somehow having expertise, like whatever. The person that she was best known to materialize was this spirit called Bien Boa, who was apparently this 300-year-old Hindu man. Oh, okay. Bienboa also had a sister that often materialized named Bergoglia.

Oh, my. And pictures of them, so, you know, researchers or investigators, excuse me, would take pictures during her seances. know researchers or investigators excuse me would take pictures during her seances and anytime the pictures of them showed up they looked uh hmm more or less like cardboard cutouts oh that's weird i wonder why that is um maybe i should show you a picture and then you can tell me can you please because people were hashtag girl boss hashtag choog okay just opened it oh no oh this looks like it belongs in the back rooms uh this looks like a ghost out of my night terrors okay this is like when people when we posted the the one of um what's her name who did the ectoplasm oh helen duncan helen duncan people were like this is worse than anything you could have which it is it's it was so much worse than

anything you could have imagined but um it's a picture something like that it's literally a cardboard cutout i'm also loving that like in 1904 or whatever they had cardboard cutouts of people like honestly can you imagine if you found this at like an antique store i would buy the shit out of this to put it i'd be like oh my god it's bianbella i know him well it's bb um so anyway so she's like apparently killing it i mean her parents her in-laws are either like really supportive of her grieving her her fiance and being like yeah it's it's that's an ectoplasm spirit you're right or they really believed her um and so they started inviting researchers to the seances including a couple people one guy named gabriel another guy named charles charles we hear about

throughout this entire story because he is a die-hard believer in her oh dear um but so they invite notable people who you know are researching this kind of stuff charles in one month went to 20 of her sessions and later published uh his like results or his opinion of it in the annals of psychical science okay and this so he described a little bit about what the room looked like he said that it was basically this space over the stables or the the coach house and uh they had to get up through there through stairs from the garden uh the windows were covered up to keep the light out because apparently when it only when it's dark do the spirits come out interesting sure sure sure he also said that the setup is has a cabinet made out of canvas which i don't that doesn't totally make sense to me it sounds more like it's

a like a a fitting room in a mall like it's just like a tent thing yeah it's like a curtain space a curtained off space that you can't see unless they open up the curtain to you there's also a table nearby for the sitters and there he made sure to mention there is no trap door in the floor oh okay so in his findings charles wrote quote oh this by the way this whole fucking story is just riddled with quotes i'm sorry i just couldn't some of them are i just could not get rid of no i love a good quote so charles and his findings wrote quote i am able to certify that no one was hidden in the room when the seance began moreover as the curtains over the windows

were securely nailed to the wall and there was no trap door nor secret panel in the walls i am in all certitude able to affirm that no one could enter the room during the seance so he's like there's no way anyone could have come in or out of here i can like there there were no tricks up her sleeve there was just a cardboard cut out behind her sleeve it was actually in the curtain doll space we don't talk about that um so and apparently the way that like the standard was that she would get up and go behind the curtain away from everybody to start almost like meditating or get hypnotized or whatever so that she could really focus in on the spirits and then she would come out and all of a sudden have like this ectoplasm on her oh interesting and nobody thought like we should go in there with her apparently she had an aid who

did go into the canvas room with her but it was like a like that the property's like servant or something and so i guess nobody asked her like are you helping back there like man she should have called tmz like she got the inside scoop the the employee who works there and is like i'm a nobody but i have like the inside she should have done like a reddit ama i would love that yeah get paid good for that so uh during the seances where charles actually witnessed the spirit of bn boa he said that bn boa's head quote was covered by a sort of cask and over this cask a turban and his face was very blurry compared to other faces in the room which is so like it basically was a pixelated image compared to everybody else but whatever that's just how the spirit presented itself i guess

apparently he had a long nose and a thick black mustache quote which appears as though glued to the upper lip but charles said but charles said whatever that's you know like strangely 2d like he doesn't have any he's not three if he turns to the side he disappears it's the strangest thing weird it's so he's got no profile. He's pixelated. I didn't know that could happen in 1905. But also his mustache is going to fall off soon. But anyway, I totally with full certitude believe that this woman is legit.

Charles also said that he had seen BN Boa come out from the cabinet and walk around. And he's heard him breathe, heard him speak, and has felt his hand, which apparently was warm and felt like it had bones and joints in it. Charles also said that he had watched Ava materialize ectoplasm, which apparently came out of her mouth most of the time. I don't want to know what that means. Tell me. The rest of the time, quote quote were variously her navel breasts and armpits oh i'm sorry i don't know which is worse i don't know i don't know the idea of the breasts interesting orifice to work with sure i mean uh i guess if you're lactating you could pull that off uh-huh yeah

or just like if you've got like sweaty underboob baby i don't know true if you got a big little big uh yeah you could just hide it and tuck it over just flop it over that's a good point that's a good cheesecloth in there it'll keep you from sweating you know actually not a terrible idea ava hang on you are a star in the work she's gonna start her own mlm she uh she's gonna contact the spirit world and be like hey girl haven't talked to you in a while i haven't talked to you since i bullied you in high school but i know you're dead now but like i was wondering if you wanted to partner up. So, yeah. So that's breasts.

Armpits, the most unique. Like, A for creativity. Navel terrifies me the most because I have my own fears about one day my belly button coming undone. Yeah, I never had that fear until you gave me the fear. It's a little knot on the inside. What if it gets undone? It just, your whole stomach pours out? happens probably that yes m your whole stomach pours out with ectoplasm apparently oh no okay um hmm where was i oh yeah i don't know but it was all really

unfortunate oh yes yes yes okay so uh variously her navel breasts and armpits as a whitish substance that creeps as if alive you see my little dance here yeah i love it i feel like uh like hocus pocus right here bend the bones and twist the back okay uh as a whitish substance that creeps as if alive with damp cold protoplasmic extensions that are transformed into a hand, fingers, a head, and even into an entire figure. So it starts as this white substance and then it slowly like branches into different limbs

and becomes a figure, a person. Okay, out of her boobs. Right out of the pit. Right out of the old belly button. Oh my God. But yeah, because I mean, if this whole argument at this time in the

world was ectoplasm is just this uh tangible energy that pours out of human life and spirits can use it to harness and rebuild themselves into a figure then it would make sense that it starts as a blob and kind of branches into limbs until it's it does make sense yeah i mean in that in that world it barely makes sense but also according to charles the stem is grayish white so it like kind of pours out in like like tubes maybe or blots or something apparently it starts as grayish white with swellings like an empty snake skin ew the mass is grayish, gelatinous, and barely visible. And little by little, it seems to split into digits at its end. It is like the embryo of a hand, ill-formed but clear enough to enable me to say that it is the left hand seen from the back. So he was just watching this thing.

With certitude, the pixelated hand showed up. So yeah, so he's just saying that you know he was watching like beings form out of this stuff he also did make sure to mention the clothes she was wearing to imply that she had it was so tight on her that she couldn't have been hiding anything underneath it okay um he also did think it was weird though the only thing he had a problem with was that at the end of this she seemed to have really high energy when usually mediums after a seance would be really drained right like when you said oh there were 20 in a month i was like don't they usually like take everything out of

you when you do these yeah and he thought it was apparently she would like run up and down the stairs and shit and be like really jazz like she would have hyped herself up after these interesting he thought that was odd but everything the only thing that's odd right okay everything else checked out for him okay so at any rate uh after so many investigations charles still believed she was like full-blown legitimate medium pretty much like on his deathbed like still says that she was the real deal uh but in 1906 only like a year later she was exposed in the paper by a servant on the property named Areski. Oh my God, is that the person? No.

Oh. Oh, I don't think so. Because the unless one of the sources I read was wrong, the medium that or the person that went behind. Oh. Or the person that went behind. Oh. At some point, one of the people that would come in and sit in on her sittings with her was a servant that was a woman. And this one's a man.

Oh, okay. So. So maybe there were a bunch of hall meeting, this, uh, servant named a rescue said that Ava had been paying him to go into the stances via an actual trap door that apparently Charles totally neglected to see. Um, and he would be dressed as BM Boa.

So no, I guess there were times where she like, maybe when he left or wasn't working there anymore then all of a sudden like she just like had to like get a cardboard cut out just like a little replacement figure yeah yeah so apparently there were um different versions of bm boa at different times um i'm trying to see if i have a picture of him oh yeah okay so here's bm boa the person so this is areski dressed as him oh my oh hold on let me zoom in which by the way looks like the cardboard cutout but with like a turban or something on

his head and i could be using that mustache yes definitely the glued on mustache uh definitely not politically correct i'm certain of it with certainty is that not the right word no sorry i mean dressing someone up with a turban and saying look oh right yeah totally not what you said the only reason i'm saying turban is because that was what charles said in his writing so i'm assuming that oh no yeah i mean i'm just saying like what she's doing is probably not not the greatest uh no no no no no you know but also I just disclaimer, I'm not trying to offend anybody. If I said it wrong and you see the picture, please let me know. So after this scandal, apparently it was like really damning in her town.

And she said, OK, I'm going to go off. I'm going to move to Munich, which is far from Algeria. Is it far from Algeria? To me, it is. I don't think it's I mean, it's far. It's different country obviously but let me see I don't think it's probably as far as it sounds but I could be very wrong it feels far I mean it's probably pretty damn far my my uh google map says can't find a way there okay well that's so not helpful thanks ways wow

okay well you know what i don't know it's probably pretty goddamn far uh let's just put it that way it's not a walk away let's go oh definitely not probably not even a drive not even close i don't know so uh she because of that scandal she moves from al Algeria to Munich. And then there are two stories here. I don't know which one is right. Different sources told me different things. But the one that I was going with up until the end when I found new information was that she left, went to Munich and changed her name herself to Eva, Eva Carrier or Eva C. Okay. But I also heard later that someone I haven't mentioned yet named Albert, he ended up writing a book about everything and he changed her name for her protection. So to Eva, so I don't know. All I know is when she moved to Munich, I think she started referring to herself as Eva C. That's what I was that was what i was writing on and then i i saw that he maybe actually wrote a book many years later and called her eva c in the book so maybe she never changed her name i'm not too sure oh maybe he just changed it and it stuck either she changed when she moved

to munich or what's that sorry here's algeria and then munich okay here oh it's it's surprisingly not as far away as yeah you could take a boat probably across the mediterranean here and then but yeah so either either she changed it herself or then many years after her entire career uh an author changed it just got switched right. But after like 100 years, it's kind of lost in translation apparently. But I was operating under that she now goes by Eva C. So while she was in Munich, she started working with another spiritualist who was also in my escape room called Stanislaw P.

Okay. And this is just her making like a little cameo in here. I actually don't talk about her too much in this. So maybe I'll talk about her one day. But Stanislav P. apparently started a mediumship photography piece with her where they were taking pictures of each other, like producing ectoplasm. Oh, that's fun. That's a fun little game for mediums to play. Yeah.

They hosted their own seances. And when ectoplasm would come out, they would like take little pictures together. Also, while she was hanging out with Sana Slava P all the time, she ended up running into a huge fan of hers. So Eva's biggest fan showed up and her name was Juliet Bisson. Ooh. And her name was Juliette Bisson. Ooh. And she was apparently married to a playwright, Alexander Bisson, who I don't know that name, but maybe people in the playwright world do.

But so Juliette was her biggest fan, found her in Munich and said, like, you've got to move to Paris. Like, I live in Paris. It would be so fun to work with you. We could hold seances at my house. I thought you were going to say we could hold hands. I was like, this girl needs to cool it. But she's there. That's probably what's happening.

Oh, so that is kind of what she wink, wink. We could hold seances. We could hold seances and hold feet under the seance table. Ew. The toes one. The thing that I always send you sending me these pictures of toes intertwining i don't know why i hate it probably that's why yeah i hate it alison also alison also hates it and so i anytime i see it online i just send it to somebody and i'm like how do you so often see it online i don't i follow the wrong people or maybe the right people. I don't know.

Certifiably the wrong people. I just said it's people and I'm like, let me know when you're ready to do this with me. And then everyone says no. But honestly, if someone said yes,

I don't think I'd do it. I think the first time you sent it, I did say yes. And you were like, you're not supposed to say yes. Oh no, I said only if I, I said only if I can do that weird uh toe click thing on the ground

oh yes you said that and i said fuck you okay uh okay so yes you were you were picking up on the queer vibes here so yes uh so juliet was like you've got to move to paris that's where i live you could uh hold house hold stances at my house and whether or not there was some queer tension although i bet there was eva like immediately moved to paris and started living in juliet's house with her husband oh boy this is a novel in the making it we never hear about the husband again so he was probably just like downstairs on the barco lounger the whole time he was like why haven't i heard from either of them watching the history channel out of the loop so uh juliet agreed like oh i'll be your assistant and i'll write notes on seances and we can document you know your success and you can

just work from here so one of her reports this is from Juliet's um journal oh Deirdre is calling me oh my god she heard about the toe thing she was like why haven't you talked to me about this I'd do it I assumed you immediately said it to her too oh I can finally say now so my the reason Deirdre's calling me so now that I am fully vaccinated by by the way. Oh, yeah. I forgot to talk about this. The baby took a little bit of the thunder, but that's OK. That's expected. Oops. Yeah, I'm fully vaccinated now.

And so I'm surprising my mom for Mother's Day weekend, which is when this comes out. So I can officially now announce it because by the time it comes out, the surprise has already happened. She's going to be so excited to see you. She hasn't seen me. She told me recently because I'm about to turn 29. She's like to be so excited to see you. She hasn't seen me. She told me recently because I'm about to turn 29. She's like, I haven't seen you since you were 27. And I went, whoa, really weird quarantine problems.

And so anyway, yeah, I haven't seen her since two Christmases ago now. Wow. And so my stepdad was like, oh, like, do you plan on surprising her anytime soon? And I went, oh, my God, like Mother's Day is the weekend that I'm like officially like free, like free of this household. And so anyway, Deirdre's picking me up from the hospital, not the hospital. I was like, oh, Freudian slip when it's a pandemic. I know. But you're just picking me up and we're having a sleepover the night before so we get to like hang out.

And then the next morning I'm going to surprise my mom. And then after that, I'm going to be in Boston. So I'm taking the rounds. I'm going to spend a week at home and then I'm going to spend a few days in Boston. I'm so jelly. Yeah. When are you coming to Cincinnati? I don't have.

I promise you if you think I'm surprising you I do not have I know but I keep trying listen I want to wait I want to wait till um closer to the baby um okay so I'll be waiting here that's my legitimate answer but um if you get bored and I just want to hang out we'll call no I can't do it I was thinking for a second. I was like, maybe I could go from Boston to Cincinnati. We'll call it a work trip. No, I can't do that. I really did think for a second, like, I could cancel one of my flights and just go from Boston to Cincinnati and

hang out with you. But I, hmm. No, no, no. We'll talk about it later. Yikes. Yikes. No, no. I'm putting too much pressure on you. My brain's doing the Zach Bagans thing. Okay. Uh-oh. But anyway, happy mother's day mom so where were we it's getting gay oh yeah okay so juliet this is a report from her journal since she was the one now taking notes of all of ava's

seances so this is from 1911 and juliet wrote this after a, at nighttime, she was hypnotizing Eva or doing, doing something where they were like, I guess they did some sort of meditation to like help her get in the zone to talk to spirits. And so this was what happened after that. Quote, I had hardly approached her. Just to give you context to this is like one of the first times i think juliet i don't know if it's one of the first times but this is just uh an example of juliet's experience with the ectoplasm okay quote i had hardly approached her when she threw herself

on one side and with her mouth open and with that breathing that you're familiar with i saw descending from her left shoulder masses of material which fell over her chest down onto her right side. I then asked that the mass should come to me. Almost immediately after I had uttered this, a large packet, I think she means like a large pocket of it or something, was thrown on my head from behind.

So she's looking- From behind, I don't know. She's looking at Ava and seeing it like come out of her chest or something and it apparently like snuck up behind her and landed on her head oh god forbid it glided over my face and eyes moving independently like an animal with moist skin okay the living material glided along down my back hanging over from one shoulder to the other and entirely enveloped me the whole mass dissolved quite suddenly and disappeared while i still held the medium's hand after a pause of several minutes eva said to me it will now come into your hand and she then took my right arm with both her hands and in this position i stretched forward my right hand immediately afterwards i felt in the hollow of my hand something resembling a pigeon's

egg sure you know how it is when you're holding a pigeon this egg feels pigeon uh however it was connected with eva's left shoulder by a broadband of substance and the material is ash gray and is traversed by threads like a delicate skin what is happening here apparently that's a very well-written description of this ectoplasm so a year later they're still living together and doing these sessions together and juliet's husband dies oh no no and then. And then Eva stays with Juliet and they continue their seances. Continue holding feet. Holding feet, probably holding more. And Juliet's friend shows up and his name is Albert von Schrenknatzing.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. I'm going to call him Big Al. And he also was, he was an investigator or researcher and he was like i gotta know more about you know eva i'm hearing all of this like i'm hearing all these things that you're telling me about this ectoplasm i gotta check it out and so he agrees i'm also going to start taking notes and photos of these seances and we can build like quite a nice little file so albert who is the one that later wrote the book and called her eva in it so i don't know where okay got it all i know is well in well after her time in algeria at some point

she got called eva so okay um so albert started investigating her and he had already had some experience because he had investigated other well-known mediums. He also, fun fact, was a fellow student of Sigmund Freud's. And he, according to the Guinness World Records, is the first forensic psychologist. Oh, my God. Is that, like, not the coolest thing? That is the coolest. Big Al?

Big Al. Oh, my God. Who would have thought? Not me. Big Al, maybe. So he started investigating Eva. He still also, much like Charles, swears that she's legit. Juliette swore that she was legit.

Then again, Juliette had probable queer bias. And also maybe Albert was like, if there was something going on, maybe Albert was in on it. I don't totally know. Maybe Albert, because they were friends, defended her or I don't know. But he always said that that eva was legit so um when he would do tests and experiments and research on her apparently he would have eva do a strip search before seances which yikes but also i get that they're trying to like make sure she's not hiding anything iffy but in in 1908 or whatever like who knows

what was considered normal take your clothes off okay uh so did a strip search before the seances and then put her in tight clothing to make sure she didn't hide anything in her sleeves or her pant legs and then he had her drink blueberry syrup so that way if she planned on regurgitating anything it would be stained i mean not a terrible idea it's new it's a new one and it's unique yeah and then after the seance he would give her i think like um like some sort of throw up medicine like vomit inducing medicine so that way whatever she threw up you could see like was there ever anything in her system that's a horrible that's horrible so every time you have to chug blueberry syrup and then induce vomiting to to yeah that's awful awful oh well apparently that was her life she chose to be involved in this because he ended up studying her for like years i think he was like a big researcher for

her and apparently that was his like standard practice so she was like all right hit me with the epic act all right big l i was trying to come up with the word for it yeah she really must have like been traumatized by blueberry syrup after that she must have just wanted to throw up every time she you could never think about it yeah repulsive so albert later used these notes to write his book called phenomena of materialization and one entry is from uh the year they started working together and this was like i one of his first uh experiments with her i guess okay after about 20 minutes after about 25 minutes we saw against the dark background the distinct shape of a white half mask of a face near the medium's head with two black eye holes. So this is the first time seeing like ectoplasm or a figure, I guess.

When the curtain opened again, the male face was behind the medium against the wall the medium whimpered and moaned as if in pain and there followed some usually deep tones with a or some unusually deep tones of the convulsive stretching of the whole body suddenly she moved as if in violent pain uh and then he said it was like akin to like maybe like a surgical operation type of pain oh and made lively defensive movements as if replying to a strange power intruding upon her this incident obliged juliet to enter the cabinet and look after eva so this is implying that maybe juliet is the new aid i see or something or it's he's not implying it i'm fucking implying it like yeah we're inferring it yeah yes uh slowly eva grew calmer but the sitting could not be connoted connoted yeah like connotation like oh okay and then he ends it with eva vomited some blood oh no oh ow so apparently

she like just goes into like this like really painful you know jerky movements which then require juliet to go take care of her in the cabinet so a lot of people can be like wow that pretty much explains how she's getting help yeah so the entries from this book led to uh ava c becoming one of the best known spiritualists of her time and one of the many things that she was known for which i mentioned a little bit earlier but we're gonna really kick it into high gear now um she was not only known for producing ectoplasm from her mouth but from all orifices and when i say all i mean all i knew we were going there i knew it so here are two letters from juliet to albert um and i used two because like one wasn't enough wasn't enough trauma

um and this is where we officially call her ava because i cannot process anything else eva is fully divorced from this story from now on eva has decompartmentalized or has completely compartmentalized is uh maybe not even editing worlds apart okay uh a letter from juliet to albert about one of the seances that he apparently missed on my expressing a wish what wish was this by the way the medium parted her thighs and and i saw that material assumed a curious shape resembling an orchid which makes me laugh because georgia o'keefe was right the whole time okay first of all there's that second of all so georgia o'keefe is clearly plagiarizing um but also who wait so who's writing

this letter i thought it was a writing it jule no this is uh juliet writing to albert about like you know since they're both taking notes on her seances, I guess he didn't make this one. So she was updating him. I don't know. This is a personal in their bedroom experience. It sounds like. Yeah, or maybe all three of them were, like, I'm not, like, no shade to poly people, but maybe they were all together. I mean.

I never saw any notes of that. But when I was doing this this research it all felt like the three of them were kind of they seem very together yeah and and i felt like there were some legitimate reasons that they seemed like they were all romantically involved and it would also make sense why they both of them were such staunch defenders of her maybe right or that they were maybe both helping her look maybe he was just like in love with her but couldn't have her maybe i don't know it could be a million reasons but i i definitely just like how you kind of got some like queer vibes immediately about juliet i got

some i got some like throuple vibes the entire time i was doing this research so shout out to throuples i guess um okay i'm sorry this is the representation yeah this is this is not what you deserve um this is not what you deserve so anyway in in that case it also makes me feel weird that they're like both writing about the third person that's not a part of this letter true point good point uh-huh um yikes okay so uh yeah so the medium part of her thighs and i saw the material assumed a curious shape resembling an orchid eva or ava yikes then said wait we will try to facilitate the passage oh what was that sound i don't know i just hate that you changed you already failed at your ava even compartmentalizing i'm sorry that noise

was new i think that was my future baby speaking to me like i don't want to live in this life what are you doing i don't know i don't want to be part of this i'm not even here yet and i don't want it take me back okay um okay uh it gets worse where were we i don't know so ava then said wait we will facilitate the passage of said orchid shaped ectoplasm from between my thighs she rose mounted on the chair and sat down on one of the armrests with her feet touching the seat okay really propping herself up to be uh matched at eye level before my eyes and with the curtain opened a large spherical mass oh no about eight inches in diameter in diameter wait oh my god wait this is a birth i was gonna say that sounds like a full-on childbirth experience but she's literally almost completely dilated okay oh no and then okay uh before my

eyes and with the curtain opened a large spherical mass about eight inches in diameter emerged from the vagina but i've never had to have the word vagina in my notes here before but here we are fun times quickly placed itself on her left thigh while she crossed her legs so she literally pushed this thing at her and then it just flops on her here i am quote i distinctly recognized in the mass a still unfinished face whose eyes looked at me wait wait this thing is like a bowling ball with a face rolls on out it's one of those like um like eyes that are also glued on it's like a two-dimensional pixelated bowling ball face oh no um here's the other letter uh also from juliet to albert yesterday i hypnotized eva as you ava as usual and she unexpectedly began to produce phenomena. As soon as they began,

Ava allowed me to undress her completely. I then saw a thick thread emerge from her genitals. Your face. It changed its place and disappeared into the navel depression. ew ew ew ew ew ew so like an umbilical cord yeah more material emerged from second time the vagina and with a sinuous serpentine emotion of its own it crept up the girl's body giving the impression as if it were about to rise in the air what is happening finally it ascended to her head entered ava's mouth no and disappeared

so homie just ate her own like genital ectoplasm what what the fuck is going on maybe i should have read all that as zach bagans no thank you nobody we want answers my name is zach bagans okay um so their seances were very x-rated if you could not tell um at least to me i know as the prude of every single one of my social circles i would have been uncomfortable at the seance. You are uncomfortable right now. So yeah, I think so.

So sweaty. It's insane right now. Okay, so. Oh my God. Careful what might come out of those pits. You never know. So the seances were interesting of maybe potential sexual nature. And also to be clear clear both of those experiences the letters i just told you one reason that they are very queer coded is because there

was no mention of anybody else sitting in at the seance it was just the two of them playing with a crotch it sounds like it sounds like a very spicy relationship. Like, it's not boring. It 100% is not boring. But also, apparently their seances were very ooh-la-la. So Ava apparently would do this, like, sexy dance to get the spirits stirred up or something. And then Juliet and Albert, before seances, would both examine her vagina for any ectoplasm materials so that's the other thing where i feel like this is exam together both of them would examine her so i'm really hoping they're a throuple at this point and he's just not like a

fucking creepy ass researcher yeah that would be kind of a line that we're reaching a dude involving himself in some very queer play this is scientific let me look yeah yeah yeah yeah so fingers crossed it's a throuple according to uh one source this is a quote uh this is collusion sloman they said i know they said uh quote juliet, during the course of the pre-seance examination, how is there a fourth time, would introduce her finger into Ava's vagina to ensure no ectoplasm had been loaded there, loaded there, before to fool the investigators. Loaded there. The whole procedure was so enjoyable for ava that she often stripped

nude by the end of the seance and demanded another full-on exam okay come on everybody are we seriously pretending that this is a fucking scientific research paper this is those fucking straight historians who are like oh isn't it wonderful that their best friends had never got married and lived in a house forever together and would touch each other's private parts for science like what are you talking about i'm so my vanilla little brain is just breaking i'm so sorry i'm over here going i hope somebody's written a novel because i am like i want to know more about this erotic paranormal erotica i'm into it i mean like to be clear i feel like a lot of people are gonna read me the wrong way and think

that like i'm like against any of like this i'm not against anything queer obviously i just have such a weird thing about like to me that's like such private stuff and like to be reading this out loud to the masses i'm sorry i'm sorry it's just really uncomfortable for me i love it i could i could just watch you sweat and i'm literally blowing on my pressure points to like cool off the sweat oh my god you poor thing you're gonna have nightmares okay so meanwhile i'm like somebody write some fan fiction this sounds like fun so allegedly uh ava would also run around the seance room naked during seances with sitters and do sexual things with the audience oh my god well this is this is x-ray yeah this is becoming quite an experience it's teetering on like some weird private club this is like red light district stuff yeah yeah

uh and there are pictures apparently of so here's my favorite thing of what of what i i tried to find the actual pictures and i just couldn't find anyone that was like juicy enough but there are records that there are several pictures of ava in the middle of like producing ectoplasm that were almost like smutty pictures like meant to be sexual so um this is like zach bagans all the way like this is just like exactly his play honestly that's probably why you can't find them because he has the originals in his like he would buy them he would they're hanging in his bedroom or somewhere and he's not gonna share them well apparently there were pictures some of the examples i heard of were that there was ectoplasm like literally coming out of her breasts um there were also

uh like phallic shaped ectoplasm in a picture with her and she like her posing in very you know suggestible ways she found a niche she did i mean what are the odds that this is where i jump in and say like she was huge for her time and she was clearly fraudulent and yet every man was like oh no she's the real deal a good point like i mean talk about a girl boss am i right like she was like the if they are paying attention all the sexy stuff then they will either intentionally uh ignore the obvious fraud or they will maybe just be so stupid that they're paying attention to something else they don't even notice the obvious distracted yeah they want it to be real yeah but there were so many there were so many people who defended her and still to this to this day until they died probably

just wanted the shows to go on exactly exactly they were like we'll give you money like we don't give a shit about the ectoplasm yeah so uh in case people could not gather yet many people think julia and eva were in a sexual relationship together and they also were intentionally using their business to work up a male audience to keep up their notoriety and that's how they made the big bucks listen smart i don't even want to say girl boss anymore because it sounds so demeaning like it sounds like real entrepreneurial stuff here right here yeah this is an mba in the works um so albert also again because he was taking pictures during a lot of this he has a lot of pictures of these ectoplasm productions but a lot of critics said that the faces that would come out of this ectoplasm much like earlier in her career they

looked like cardboard cutouts some of them odd magazine cutouts um from penthouse and playboy why does why does bb all of a sudden have like a nipple on his forehead what's going on no so also harry price of course chimed in he said that the pictures that he saw of these seances look completely fake the ectoplasm figures look like they were made out of cardboard. And he said that from what he had read of Albert's experiments, the tests were not properly controlled. And there were a lot of opportunities for Ava to have been like fucking around and having tricks up her sleeve. Obviously, whatever he says, Sir Arthur Conan Doyyle has to have a different opinion and so he believed that ava was 100 legit he says that houdini also believed this although houdini

says no that was not i was gonna say uh somehow i doubt that they have such a frenemy relationship where like who even knows who's right anymore but apparently houdini was like staunchly against it which i would believe based on his history with mediums. He even said that her ectoplasm like gimmick was similar to the magician's trick called the Hindi needle. Fun fact. Oh. So he says like, no, she was a fucking fraud, as all mediums are. But Sir Doyle was like, that's not true.

I have letters he wrote me where he was impressed. And it's like, OK, well, then bring the receiptsipts he was probably impressed for other reasons uh amen you know what i mean like you could be impressed but also be like but it's also not real um but also interesting real quick about you said it's called a hindi needle because like wasn't bb a hindu a 300 year old hindu man maybe she had some like connection yeah i don't know i don't know interesting anyway i mean that's what that's uh duly noted uh but at any rate most researchers so harry price and houdini were on the same page sir doyle would like believe that she was legit at any rate um most researchers claimed that albert's experiments were unscientific they were not properly controlled

and they needed to be redone, as well as other people who had researched her in the past. They just said that nothing had been properly controlled. And people didn't trust, like I said, they didn't trust his photos because they said that, he said, all of the ectoplasm figures had like a very two-dimensional appearance. But his argument for why the images looked so weird and not of our world is because ava's figures start in her mind and she has to manifest them and so however she's seeing them

is the way that they appear in which case i'd be like okay girl then like manifest a 3d person yeah like what are you doing cardboard that doesn't even seem like something, like you said, that should even exist by this point, cardboard figures. I know. Weird, weird. Also, people were skeptical about why they couldn't touch the ectoplasm figures during her seances. And Albert would be like, oh, well, because if you touch them, you might get hurt. You might have like a dizzy spell or something. So you can't touch them.

Otherwise, you'll get sick. you might have like a dizzy spell or something. So you can't touch them. Otherwise you'll get sick. Also, Albert defended Juliet from critics because a lot of people were like, oh, she's clearly the aid helping her in the little canvas cabinet. Albert said, oh, that's not true

because we always do exams on her, on, we always do exams on both of them apparently. So it wasn't just Ava getting this weird exam. Sorry, so now he's, oh my God. Apparently everyone was getting some some action was Albert or was it just these two ladies? Excellent question. I don't know. And I don't want to know, actually, why am I even asking? I say all this again, really hoping like that he's telling the truth. Everything was consensual. We're under the we're under the impression this was all consensual because also it happened a million times and it sounds like

they were all having not the worst time yeah i was gonna say it sounds like at least uh ava's having fun apparently she was according to some sources she was like running around asking for seconds so i don't know uh let that speak for itself i guess so uh he also said so like oh well juliet we would examine her also before and after sittings and she wasn't always at the sittings and so if she wasn't there who was aiding ava in these you know stunts fair point even still investigators didn't officially deem ava a fraud because there was no logical way that her conjuring this much ectoplasm could have gone that unnoticed by so many observers like people were just like if she's doing like someone at this point should have that was their

whole excuse someone at this point should have noticed something and no one's noticing but then the argument is like well they were all watching her naked body get all vajayjay yeah yeah like of course no one was noticing so think about if like chris angel sorry chris angel to put you in this position but think about like if chris angel like whipped it out like yeah he would get i mean he already gets away with anything and then the other hand he's literally physically like altering the magic trick and like pulling a visible string right like i mean come on ultimate distraction yeah so the main argument is like well someone would have noticed and the other argument is like everyone was noticing something else much more important distracted

so in 1916 1917 uh it's kind of um i don't totally know the official number but uh from 1916-ish to 1918 there was a new guy on the scene who was like i'm going to investigate ava i guess albert i think he got chipped off to world war one or something i read that on one source i don't know if that's legitimate but albert is like fucking gone so in 1960 and 1918 this new guy named gustav uh he was really interested in ava and so he was going to replicate all of albert's stuff all of albert's experiments or update them since everyone said they need to be redone anyway so he was doing experiments with ava and there were at different times a combination of 150 scientists or observers at her sitting so he was doing these with full-blown witnesses

and he was uh doing these tests over 18 months with juliette by his side so they you know he was getting help and the results ended up being a part of this conference in france called uh i'm assuming it's the physiology of the supernatural. It's in French. So I'm guessing that it's something like that. I'll take it. Okay. Here's an excerpt from his notes about the first time he saw the ectoplasm come out of her fingers and spread to her hands. I will say this picture is kind of badass.

I'm sure it's obviously a gimmick after everything else we've seen. But I mean, does that not look badass to you? That's some like Scarlet Witch shit oh right oh yeah but then like just to like remind you like this is like what some of the goddamn ectoplasm faces look like let me see what you oh wait hold on i lost it just like so we're both clear like it like some pictures look really cool and some of them look really bad yeah yeah this one the one you sent earlier looks kind of like she's holding an electric like a bolt of lightning literally she looks like and realistically maybe it was just

like a metal rod or something and they had flash on like honestly yeah because that balding man to the left his head kind of looks similar to the bolt of lightning so it really could just be a reflection um but so uh anyway so the first time that she that gustav saw this ectoplasm coming out of her hands this is what he said the ectoplasmic mass mounted on eva's chest up to her mouth into which it disappeared. Five minutes wait. And when they saw a mass of white substance exude from her nose and eyes, it descended down to her

knees and thickening as it went. And not like dropping like gravity, but apparently it's live and floating all the way down to her knees. Thickening as it went, giving the impression of skin. after a short time the skin vanished instantly and the substance then reappeared between her hands and in a uh and in it was a very small hand so like something was forming out of this but the phenomenon ceased

almost at once so the hand was being created and then it disappeared because the medium was exhausted resorption into the fingers was instantaneous so it all went back into her hands just like how it started coming out gustav also did say though uh about his own experiments quote the usual precautions were rigorously observed during the stances in my laboratory i do not merely say it there was no trickery i say this with no possibility of trickery further i cannot repeat it too often nearly always the materializations took place under my own eyes and i have observed the genesis and their whole development so he is on board just like every other confused person gosh and he's like this person is legit, important for later, and by later I mean like pretty soon,

he becomes the director later of the IMI, which is the Institute of Metaphysical, the International Institute of Metaphysics. I'm guessing. It's also in French, so I'm trying to do the English translation. But so he becomes the director of that. Okay. So now, I know everyone's been wondering,

where's the SPR? What are they doing about this? So in 1920, the Society of Psychical Research investigated Ava. And their main theory was that she was just regurgitating this stuff. And it was coming out and maybe she had it on strings, but there was no solid proof. And fun fact, one of the people on this investigative team was Eric Dingwall, who was another frenemy of Harry Houdini, who like fucking roasted him after he died. Ah, yeah, I remember that. I feel like. So apparently the SPR went to 40 of her seances and at only half of them did ectoplasm actually appear, which they thought was weird.

But their original statement was, quote, no amount of fraud could explain the certain phenomena that people say they have observed. Comparative studies show that Eva C is not the only medium producing these manifestations. Accounts of the phenomena with other mediums are remarkably similar to those occurring with her. And the appearance of this leads to leads one to suppose that the mediumistic phenomena does occur in Eva's presence. So they were like, maybe this is legit that was their original statement they're like we have no proof to claim her as guilty sure we're not saying it's legit but like we have no proof proven guilty and we don't have enough evidence exactly and like enough of the things we're hearing about her sound similar to the other things we're investigating

sure but like i said fans of her defended her non-stop including charles from the very beginning one of the first uh people who researched her when she was living with her in-laws and he got real fired up about the spr investigating her and said uh the spr admit that the only possible trickery is regurgitation but what is what is meant by that how can masses of mobile substance organized as hands, faces, and drawings be made to emerge from the esophagus or the stomach? The members of the SPR,

when they fail to understand something, say it's quote, difficult to understand. And that's where they leave it. So he was like, you have no fucking proof. Like if it's just regurgitation, that's all I can come up with.

Explain these literal cardboard cutouts that you claim exist. And so they ended up, the SPR report ended up being controversial. Like up until the 80s, there were still people like literally like 60 years later coming out being like, Eva could have been legit. Eva could have not been legit. I don't know how that's possible, but OK. And then in 1922, this was the final investigation done on Eva. And it was, they sat in on 15 seances of hers and nothing happened at 13 of them. Oh.

And so the SPR was like, okay, you're a fraud. Like, how is it that like, you're not doing anything at any of your sittings? Although you could argue like, well well those were moments where spirits didn't come like if she's in control of it why wouldn't she be doing it right exactly um so the spr said that after they investigated and like looked at it um i guess under a microscope or something they said that the ectoplasm was made with chewed paper and magazine cutouts um and one of my favorite things is that there are like documents or there are letters from juliet talking about like when she would um hypnotize ava there were like literal cords that she would see like she would see wires like and she wrote she wrote about them so she was

admitting that there are wires but she would say that they were um like strings produced out of ectoplasm i see okay so she's like straight up saying like there's fucking wires and but she was like but they're in a completely different mindset apparently ghostly wires yep and even with that they still believe believe that Eva was legit. So Juliet ended up dying in 1956. And Eva, they think she died in the 40s. I think 1943 is the year we've all landed on. But I don't know if that's official or not. But even after she died in the 1950s, there was this one guy named Donald West who said that Eva's ectoplasm figures were definitely fake and made from magazines, just like how the SPR had said back in the 20s.

And one of the reasons that he knew this is because he could look at the pictures and literally see fold marks and the names of magazines on the faces. So there's one French magazine called, I think, La Mirare or whatever. M-I-R-O-I-R. And one of the faces that is on one of these pictures, one of the faces that formed out of Ivo's ectoplasm literally says the name of the magazine on it. No, come on. This was also called out back in like 1913 by one newspaper and nobody did anything about it nobody like remembered that i guess like nobody used that as evidence but back in 1913 people were like yeah she's using she's like making these faces like how did you not pick up on that

the encyclopedia of the paranormal apparently says that not only was she using faces from magazines but ava was intentionally i don't know if intentionally is the right word, but seemingly intentionally was using like notable people as like she was trying to like almost feature them as the ectoplasm faces that came out. So like Woodrow Wilson, apparently the king of Bulgaria. I don't know why Zach Bagans didn't make the list um but uh but apparently these faces were of notable people from magazines and she was almost trying to like feature them as her ectoplasm that is bizarro and the nail in the coffin was in the same year that uh in the 50s when donald west said like i mean look at this face it has a magazine name on it another person in the spr named rudolph lambert he reported that he met with a guy named eugene

and eugene had recently taken over i guess gustav from earlier who like was a diehard and became the director of the imi he died and the person who took over was Eugene. And so Eugene had just taken his place and I guess was going through Gustav's old files and met up with an SPR member, this Rudolph guy. So Rudolph and Eugene get together and Eugene is like, look at this stuff that I found from when Gustav had my job. Yeah. And he found all of these pictures that never got published and uh they had they had never gone public intentionally because the pictures were of the ectoplasm faces and they were clearly connected to wires on eva's hair oh my gosh and it seems that in the early when at the time when gustav was the director of it and maybe people before him it

was when spiritualism was at its height and so it was understood that early members of the imi knew about the photos all of them um but they wanted to uh they didn't want to debunk eva because they didn't want other people leaving spiritualism and so they didn't want to get out and ruin the movement so they agreed to keep it a secret and that means the entire time that gustav was like up and down swearing that evil was genuine he knew that there were these pictures that proved that she had was using wires shady and honestly that harms us in my opinion harms the spiritualist movement the most because it's like well if we know that some people are you've got to debunk someone right like if

you're fully covering for someone and then we find out later like you knew all along like how are you supposed to believe any of it at that point exactly so anyway unfortunately that's the ending to it but that is the story of uh that is probably one of the wild like i don't think i could have even when you said it's gonna get weird i don't think i really fully understood what that meant i've never had to say vagina ever before this and this time in my notes i had to say it four times how does that feel it's weird because this is a paranormal show so i never thought that that would have to be the thing but okay you wouldn't think so huh but always something new and i'm i'm again for the record i have no problem saying the correct words for body parts it's just

i did not know i would have to do that and it just shocked me yeah it's one thing to be on a platform speaking to lots of people that's already uh unnerving and slightly scary and then to kind of throw in some some stuff you don't usually talk about is uh just like oh okay apparently we're talking a lot about sexual activity today doing the vagina monologues 2.0 this was definitely the uh the paranormal version of the i love that oh that's fun anyway i'm so sorry that was long but whatever no i talked for 69 minutes that why did i pick 69 i'm clearly regressing i talked for six hours about my pregnancy so i think it's fair that you can talk as much as you want in some ways we both talked about vaginas today that's right we talked about uh the human

body which is beautiful we sure did okay well m i have a story for you if you are ready for it oh yeah yeah okay good this is the story of the lynn family murders cool one day i'm gonna know what you're talking about i never know whether to just keep talking because sometimes you have something to say and sometimes you don't and then i feel like i pressure you into responding so i apologize i just feel bad that i'm always a lot of people think like oh because we like i'm part of a true crime podcast i like am aware of true crime but like this is legitimately you teaching me stuff like i have no fucking clue part is that we get to like surprise each other every time i feel like people always think that like how do i not know a single

true crime case and i have a true crime podcast? I'm like, because the whole point is Christine actually educates me in real time. I've never heard of this. Well, people always think like, well, Christine should probably know about vaginal ectoplasm. And it's just weird how she doesn't. You would think she would. You've been on this earth long enough. I'm lying and I fully know a lot about it.

And I'm an expert. So just saying. Ask me. ask me ask me anything okay this is the story of the lynn family murders i feel like i haven't done a well i was gonna say i feel like i haven't done a family murder case in a long time but i guess i did the snowtown murders which was pretty chaotic but we are currently in new south wales uh in north epping and it is the year 2009 so not too long ago early in the morning july 18 2009 kathy z and that's spelled xie for reference kathy z receives a few out of the blue phone calls she's getting calls from regular customers of her brother's news agency who are calling to ask why the shop which is always open isn't open

today they are like is everything okay what's going on and you know she has no idea so she and her husband his name is leon bin but he goes by robert robert z decide to head over to her brother's house to just check in make sure everything's all right ask why the shop isn't open be like people are trying to get to the shop where are you and his house is only around the corner 300 meters away so they arrive and kathy immediately can tell something is off for starters the front door is unlocked not usually a good sign in these kind of cases and as they went upstairs they were confronted with a horrifying sight. I think we can all see where this is going. I know blood is probably involved and I hate it.

Blood is fully involved. Yes, correct. Ding, ding, ding. So Kathy discovers her brother, Min, who goes by Norman, and his wife, Yoon, who goes by Lily. So her brother, Norman, and his wife, Lily, are are both motionless drenched in a pool of blood oh wow bad start it gets worse in the room next door their two sons henry and terry had also been brutally murdered oh no and in another room lily's sister irene who had been staying with them to help with the shop was also dead oh my Yeah, it is an extensively brutal murder.

So five people? Yes. Wow. All dead, two kids and three adults. So there's blood everywhere. Can I ask how old the kids were? You know, I don't have their names, but from the photos, they look probably to be like 11, 12, like young, you know, like maybe 10-ish.

Yeah, they look little. So obviously, Kathy Lynn calls up the police straight away. And in this, they call it 000, which for us is 911. In the 000 call, you can overhear Kathy describing the crime scene in English and then briefly pleading to her husband Robert in Cantonese and he suggested that he would go pick up uh his parents-in-law from their house so they could be notified as soon as possible so it's it's one of those cases where it's a family and it gets kind of confusing all the names if you don't like know the story so Robert said the husband says you know what I'm gonna go pick up your parents like the grandparents of the family to make sure they're with us when they find out the news right so he go goes to pick up kathy's parents um who are also the parents of robert who has just been found murdered so

if there were any kind of like good silver lining to the story uh it would be that norman and lily's eldest child daughter june who goes by brenda had been away on a school trip to practice french in new caledonia at the time of the murder so okay she was basically the sole survivor of this immediate family which is horrifying um but so she survived and so kathy and robert are like totally you know blindsided by this especially because the whole family apart from brenda who was away had been at norman and kathy's parents house for dinner only the night before which was a family tradition that they had that they would meet together for dinner regularly and they'd all

been together the night before and now five of them were brutally murdered so jesus christ yeah my god that's got to be like this i mean an obvious statement here but like i can't imagine like your next get together for dinner and yeah it's just you like how could you cope with yeah it must be so jarring even on just a psychological level of like how do you even can't reconcile that yeah yeah so mr so his name mr lynn senior who's the grandfather figure essentially he would recall later that his grandsons henry and terry lynn had eaten all their dinner that night and henry had asked his grandfather to fix his tennis shoes so that morning mr lynn senior had actually called the house to let his grandson know that the shoe couldn't be

fixed but he wanted to buy him a new pair. But the phone rang. Nobody picked up. And it almost makes it like extra sad because he had no clue what had happened. But yeah, he was trying to like buy his grandson a new pair of shoes and nobody picked up. So, you know, he was obviously totally blindsided. The sweet grandfather trope had to be the one to find out this horrible shit. Yes, like while you were calling your grandson to buy him new shoes, he had been murdered.

Exactly. So before their murders, Norman and Lily, the parents of the family, had run an incredibly popular and successful news agency since October of 2002. They were very well liked by the Epping community. They had both migrated from china and had individually moved to australia where they met there and fell in love and they soon started a family and brenda who was away during the murders was their firstborn so robert the brother-in-law who's kathy's husband uh remembers norman his his dead brother-in-law as a very nice hard-working

friendly person and brenda the surviving family member would remember her father as an amazing person the hardest working person i know oh so this is just a very beloved family a very close knit family they seem i mean i don't know anything else yet but it seems like they had to have been like a freak accident like a because you were there situation like it sounds like they weren't yeah it doesn't sound like they are enemies of the community in any way right it doesn't sound like they could they would be like they would not be my top pick like targeted the next victims yeah exactly but we'll get there okay we'll figure that out soon don't worry okay so uh lily who's brenda's mother was very loving and henry brenda's younger brother loved tennis and badminton

and was a very outgoing very cheery person who often played badminton with his uncle robert so terry the youngest brother used to follow follow Brenda around everywhere, and she'd often spend hours playing games with her two little brothers. And so that's just to give a little background on how close they are. My heart, like, bleed a little more. Just to make this suck a little bit more for you. You're welcome. It's working. Oh, good.

If there's one talent I've learned from this podcast, it's just making people feel as shitty as possible. So I'm glad I can share that with you, share that joy with you. Well, there you have it. So I'm just going to give a quick recap because I know there are a lot of names here. And please ask me if, because if you have a question or you're confused, I guarantee you everyone listening is confused. So just let me know if anything's unclear. So Kathy andbert are married they get a call that something's odd something kathy's brother's shop isn't open so kathy and robert go to kathy's brother's house to make sure they're

okay they find the brother norman and his wife lily his two sons and lily's sister irene dead and brenda is the surviving daughter who was out of town. So just to clarify. But the ultimate question, obviously, at this point is who possibly, after all this, could have wanted the entire family dead? Yeah, since you opened your mouth this episode, it's been the question I've been wondering. What is going on?

Yeah, what the hell happened? So in the days that followed,athy and robert who discovered the bodies pleaded to the public for any and all information that could be linked to the case in order to solve it um for the video they asked that the media not show their faces because they were concerned for their own safety which makes sense after your entire family's murdered mysteriously you probably don't want to be on the front page of every newspaper uh like you need you need some alone time after something like that yeah you probably need a little privacy um so this massacre the news of the massacre spread really quickly now this is pretty sad uh one

person the news eventually reached was brenda who was on this school trip in new caledonia person the news eventually reached was brenda who was on the school trip in new caledonia that's how she found out so she found out about her parents and family's murder via facebook oh my god yeah oh my god isn't that just like blood chilling oh my god so brenda told the daily mail that a friend sent her a link to a news article on Facebook that included a photo of her two-story house in Sydney. That's my house, she recalled. It was such a surreal sort of feeling. I think I was in so much shock, I didn't believe it.

How could you? I mean, that's the most, like... Can you imagine being the friend, like, oh, that looks a lot like your house, like, not even really realizing, like, wait a second. Wow. Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. i don't know why that hits so close to home i think it's just like it's i guess i never envisioned like how in what way you find out someone's gone and like facebook was not on my radar right i mean you'd think at least

like you'd hear from someone who's been someone prepared to tell you or either an authority figure who has done this before or a family member who can be empathetic yeah so really rough way to find out through the media on social media so brenda got on the first flight home and was picked up from the airport by her aunt kathy and uncle ro And Brenda remembered, as soon as I saw my aunt, she gave me this massive hug. She was crying as well. And I think I knew. Sorry. And I think that's when I knew it was all real.

Oh, my God. I got nothing else to say. It's awful. It's just so sad. I mean, parents, siblings, it's really awful. So Brenda went to go live with her aunt Kathy and Uncle Robert so that they could take care of her as kind of a substitute family while also keeping the news agency running. They kept the business going while they kind of took her under their roof. And the community's love of the Lynn family was evident by the amount of people who attended the funeral.

of people who attended the funeral brenda school principal susan bridge had organized a bus to take students there and she said she still remembers this day because she hadn't ever seen such raw grief in her life because this family was just so loved by everyone wow so meanwhile the investigation of the lynn family murders was continuing behind the scenes both kathy and robert were interviewed by police uh and they told the chilling memories of how they found their family's bodies so robert whose statement had been translated from cantonese remembered the following i saw red everywhere i think i saw my sister-in-law first once i saw her i held kathy and said for her not to look at it but kathy had already seen it it was so red and messy everywhere so i went

out from the room with kathy we ran to the other room i saw terry's room door closed kathy pushed it open and we saw irene on the bed there was lots of blood around there i tried to touch her because i wanted to know if she was still alive but when i saw her she wasn't just lying flat on the bed oh sorry because when i saw her she wasn't just lying flat on the bed so i wanted to try but kathy held me back then we came out again we reached the last bedroom henry's bedroom the door was half closed we entered the room and we saw both children lying on the floor it was very red blood was all around i again wanted to touch them because they were little kids and i wanted to know if they were alive or not kathy held me back and was yelling let's go let's go she was so frightened i was so frightened as well holy oh my god i mean talk about trauma i there's wow you really you really

really came to ruin a day today christine wow i did i did horrible horrible quote you just read yeah the worst paragraph one of the worst paragraphs probably ever written. So with such a gruesome crime scene with so many people having been killed, you'd think that the neighbors must have heard something. But in an interview, neighbor Janelle Ferguson said that although she was a light sleeper, she had heard nothing from the Lynn household the night of the murder, which was odd. What? Okay. Yeah, so it does strike me as odd as well uh in the autopsy it was determined that the family was murdered by multiple bludgeons to the head by a hammer-like object which was never found and most had also suffered neck compression injuries

and asphyxia so assuming you know strangled uh in the investigation the police couldn't find any signs of the murderer breaking and entering. It seemed like the killer had cut power to the house, which sounds like a horror movie already when they like cut the phone lines. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that's just that's just letting them know, like, hey, guess what? You're not safe now. And you're not getting out of here. Something really horrible is about to happen. Exactly. So they thought that the killer had cut the power to the house and then just used the front door and, like, waltzed on in.

So according to ABC News, 24 bloodied footprints were found in the home, all coming from one pair of shoe between US size 8 1⁄2 to 10 1⁄2. And this immediately led police to believe that this was one murderer acting alone not you know multiple and so they followed the footsteps and that's how they were able to track the killer's movements they noted that the killer had moved quickly down the hallway going first into aunt irene's room and from this minimal amount of evidence the police decided to believe that this was not just a random murderer so So based on what we were saying earlier, they believe the opposite, that because of the nature of the vicious attacks, as well as how the killer seemingly-

It was personal. Yeah. And the fact that the killer knew the layout of the house and must have had access to a key because they didn't break in. It wasn't just a burglary that had escalated. And so the chief of police told the news it doesn't bear the hallmarks of a typical home invasion in that we haven't established

anything that was stolen from the home question yes so yeah i think you i you probably already said this and i'm just like totally blank i'm kind of talking really fast i apologize no how how did they die was it stabbings? Was it shootings? Bludgeons to the head and then... Sorry, let me read it again. The autopsy determined that the family was murdered by multiple bludgeons to the head by a hammer-like object which was never found. Most had also suffered neck compression injuries and asphyxia, which presumably means they I'm remembering.

For some reason, I didn't remember the bludgeonings, but I remember the asphyxia. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. Got it. remembering i'm remember i for some reason i don't i didn't remember the bludgeonings but i remember the asphyxia yeah yeah wow okay got it the murder weapon was never found uh but it looks like they had been bludgeoned repeatedly got it thank you for repeating and yeah i'm so glad that you wanted me to say that twice okay well so um because i mean my my thought is like i i mean maybe they were sleeping i guess or something but if there were five people in that house like couldn't there have been like a struggle or something i guess you'll get to it right yeah you know i don't totally you'd think so right because you would think there's it's five against one yeah and you'd think the neighbor didn't

because the neighbor didn't hear anything it's odd because you think if you it's five against one yeah and you'd think the neighbor didn't because the neighbor didn't hear anything it's odd because you think if you're killing five separate people that it would especially two in one room two in another room like there was one person just watching it happen or i don't know yeah you know were they sleeping i assume so because it seemed to have happened in the middle of the night so presumably they were asleep uh and my guess is that irene was in one of the boys rooms because she was visiting and the boys were in the same room because they were like they were sharing a room because their aunt was visiting and staying in so that's presumably why but yeah i don't totally know if there's any clarity on like the fighting back or anything like that.

Sorry. I just didn't know. Okay. So they said it didn't look like a typical home invasion. Nothing had been stolen from the house. So presumably this was a personal attack. So they believed that whoever killed them basically knew them personally, knew the layout of the house knew the family and one of the people that shot straight up the list of potential subjects sorry suspects was robert

kathy's husband who was one of the people who found the bodies so robert had trained to be an ear nose and throat specialist in china before moving to melbourne in 2006 where he met kathy and when he moved to melbourne melbourne according to the daily telegraph robert had opened a restaurant but the venture failed and so he and kathy moved to sydney they had lived there and were kind of dipping in and out of employment ever since they were struggling with money and this had caused a bit of tension in the family it was hypothesized that robert could have a motive for killing norman and his family because mr lynn senior so his father-in-law and his wife so norman and kathy's parents uh his parents-in-law viewed norman and lily's family in higher regard than robert and kathy's so basically they thought

he had this like uh what's the word envy yeah like the Yeah. Like the inferiority complex. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And potentially envy as far as like he was not as successful. His business ventures had failed and his brother-in-law had this successful company and this beautiful family. And he. Feeling like a shadow. Yeah. Yeah. And so they believe that might have been the motive or he at least could have had a motive for killing them. OK, so he's up there on the suspect list.

And with that in mind, according to the Sydney Morning Herald, a heated argument had taken place less than two months before the gruesome murder. And in this argument, Mr. Lynn Sr. had said to his daughter, Kathy, and son-in-law, Robert, we are not happy about the situation with you not working and just getting social welfare. So they were not approving of this relationship. They didn't like that their daughter had married this guy who wasn't making money. And so this had just happened recently before the murder. So this just added fuel to the fire of him being a suspect. So the Sydney Morning Herald continued saying that Mr. Lin Sr. revealed soon after the Lin family's funeral, Robert suggested that he and Kathy should take control of Norman's assets. Mr. Lin Sr. said he told Robert that according to Chinese tradition, once a daughter marries, she ceases to formally be a member of her old family and becomes a member of her husband's family. She ceases to formally be a member of her old family and becomes a member of her husband's family, meaning that Mr. Lynn Sr.'s daughter, Kathy, and Robert were a separate family. So they didn't have, in his mind, access or claim to the inheritance, to the assets of their dead relatives, which totaled, by the way, to approximately $2 million.

So talk about motive. Right. LOL. LOL. so talk about motive right lol lol so now this grandfather father-in-law is saying like well actually technically you don't have any claim to this inheritance but nice try so this inheritance dispute headed toward litigation and the relationship between mr lynn senior and his son-in-law continued to be tense and get worse mr lynn senior observed there had been no conflict between the two families before the murder and in fact before the five members of my son's family were murdered we had a normal and good relationship it was only after the five members of the family were murdered

that we started to have disputes with them the disputes were mainly concerned with the guardianship of brenda and my son's inheritance so now this family is in like you know butting heads over the money and the surviving daughter right where should she go so with this potential motive investigators not only combed through the crime scene at the lynn household but also naturally investigated robert and kathy's house unfortunately in robert's interview on july 18 2009 he revealed that he had just happened to clean up his garage a few hours after the murder just just a casual just like just a sweep just a quick sweep yeah just a quick perusal just you know getting the clutter out just swiffer it

like a little bit into the corners yeah so not a huge spring clean just a just a i'll walk around just see what touch up touch up put slapping some paint on that barn you know just like spray some febreze you know so he revealed that he had happened to clean up his garage just hours after the murders because well it was a bit untidy okay you know yeah that that doesn't pan out unless he's completely like putting that in the back of his mind. Yeah, that's how he deals with locking the trap door. Yeah, yeah. So interestingly, now this is your favorite part of the Night Stalker case.

The bloody footprints turned out to be a... Fucking footprints. It turned out to contain a lot of telling information for investigators. Okay. So much like Richard Ramirez. Finally. Jesus Christ. I i know finally it has something can you put those people on the richard ramirez case and like because those cops do what

they were talking about with feet yeah well remember but the richard ramirez they they tracked the shoes all the way to the shoe store that it sold them but they didn't have a record of who bought them so that was more just like sad luck but it's still trash it was still i didn't like having to be a part of that story wholly infuriating yes so the shoe prints at the crime scene matched the style of an asics gel elevation shoe okay guess who had a pair of asics gel elevation shoes in size nine and a half robert did it robert did it okay i was gonna say no one just kidding it was robert but when you said robert did it i was totally thrown that was the perfect response yes robert robert robert robert had a pair of asics gel elevation right

in that sweet spot of sizing that they had estimated the shoes to be also the investigation observed that the only room now this is interesting where there were no traces of bloody footprints was brenda's so if the murderer was looking to murder everyone in the house how would the killer have known right to like not go into her bedroom unless they knew that she was out of town sneaky sneaky very sneaky sneaky so this all came to a head when a year after the murders a tiny stain that had been discovered under a chest of drawers on the floor of robert's garage was reanalyzed one of the forensic experts jay gerhard who had trained in bloodstain pattern analysis was

convinced that the tiny stain which would have famously become known as stain 91 which sounds like a band in my opinion like area 51 yeah yeah uh said that the he believed that stain 91 was a transfer stain so a transfer stain according to the australian is the kind of stain produced from coming into contact with an object such as clothing a weapon or a bag wet with blood so basically it's like transferred to a surface it's not like dripping from you or something it's like right had been pressed on by another object got it so he believed that's what it was uh so lab tests proved that the tiny mark was consistent with the dna of the slain lynn family members so it was indeed their blood things are not looking good for robert and his shoes and his nice asics uh it didn't help

that a secret camera the police had installed in robert's kitchen saw him cutting up an asic gel elevations shoe box bye well there you have it see ya uh yeah he was cutting it up and then um he was soaking it in water and then he was flushing it down the toilet. Fire is such an easier way to do anything. Valid point, Amethy. Like what a waste of time. I mean, you can't even claim like, oh, that's how I get rid of garbage. It's like, no, it's not. Yeah.

No, nobody does that. You know how you can't get rid of garbage? Incinerator. Just saying. And honestly, that happens a lot where people are like oh i just had a bonfire which i mean to be fair is also sus as a hell but uh-huh whatever so he is literally on a secret camera like cutting up a shoe box of the exact shoes that were uh the prints were found at the crime scene. So not a good look. Robert was arrested, not surprisingly, on May 5th, 2011.

And it took, apparently, it took him, his wife Kathy, and niece Brenda by total surprise. Robert's trial was scheduled for September of 2013. And this is kind of sweet. So remember how I mentioned earlier there was a principal at Brenda's school who had, like, gotten a school bus to, like, bring all the students? So she, her name is Susan Bridge, and she was the one who persuaded Brenda to get a lawyer so Brenda's like in high school and this principal is kind of like taking her under her wing and being like you need a lawyer at this point um which I love yeah I'm loving well not surprised that uh people at I was gonna say teachers but I guess she's the principal or something. Yeah, principal, yeah.

But yeah, loving that educators are taking in kids. Yeah. And they need to be paid more. Protecting them. Right, exactly. Because they love your children. And doing a job that like somebody needs to fucking do and somebody isn't doing. Also, by the way, last week was teachers appreciation week so

just uh taking this segue the sagu to thank teachers for not teaching me how to fucking pronounce segue oh whoa that took a turn okay just kidding i appreciate all of my teachers yes except you a handful of you thank you for you who you are. Thank you for all that you do. We, especially this past year, we appreciate you endlessly. So in a 7 News special, which debuted years later, Principal Bridge described how she had witnessed a strange encounter between Brenda and Robert, her uncle. So this goes, again, to the notion of this principal taking care like keeping an eye on and taking care of one of her students so she said he was so physically close to her face speaking loudly and rapidly in cantonese brenda's head was down and she was crying it was clear he was trying

to get her to agree to something i did feel that i had seen a side of robert that was potentially a dangerous side that night principal bridge had confided to her husband i think i've spent all day with a murderer this girl's on to something she's like she's she's sensing the gut vibes and she's listening to him i love that as a principal she's finally like okay these skills that i've had that have been laying dormant are finally coming to use like in a big way. So in Brenda's meetings with her lawyer, she revealed that this is another dark turn. She revealed that her uncle Robert had been sexually abusing her since well before the murders even took place. Oh my god. Wow. It just keeps getting worse. It just keeps getting worse. And she

originally wasn't even sure if it was relevant to the murder trial um but with this new information brenda's lawyer had no choice but to postpone the trial so it was postponed one more time and then apparently the judge got sick so they postponed it one more time so it was february of 2015 that the trial commenced and remember the murders took place in 2009 so this is like yeah holy shit of time uh basically brenda's had to grow up in this whole span of time too which is really sad like not even knowing the real truth of anything um so just really really dark stuff it was at the trial that brenda was confronted with all the evidence uh previously discussed

you know she hadn't known all this that the prosecutors had all this against her uncle until the trial so now she's seeing all this in front of her which must have been just shocking yeah because i was about to say well if you had six years to like at least process the grief maybe it kind of worked in a silver lining way of like when you got to court you could really like focus and not overwhelm you but then if you're just gonna get thrown all this information you didn't know about for six fucking years and now you're like back to being all jarred and living with the man right like she's been living with these people and like didn't know that they had all this against him that they were building this case so yeah she

didn't even know any of this until the actual trial. So at the trial, she was confronted with all this evidence, which must have just been super jarring. And, of course, Brenda and her grandparents were at the trial as well. And they were all completely, you know, just it's just heart wrenching. They were carrying photos of the family members as they left the courtroom. Just their photos of them holding photos of their kids and their grandkids. It's very sad. So we're back to stain 91 uh stain 91 was presented as evidence and robert's lawyer belinda rigg refused to accept that stain 91 was actually blood and said the dna could have been transferred to the garage floor in a number of different ways unrelated to the murders she urged the jury to

understand how highly uncertain this data is and claimed that the DNA of the two deceased boys could also have gotten onto the garage floors because they played regularly in the garage before their deaths. Which I guess is fair. Like, it's not that absurd, I guess, to think like, oh, maybe they scraped their knee and... I guess so.

I guess. You're right. Like, it's like bullshit, you know, because we are hearing this whole story. But I can see why that wouldn't be the most compelling. It's a lukewarm, solid defense. Agreed. Like, it's not out.

It's not like. I don't want to agree with you, but I can't. Okay. Yeah. It's sort of like, well, I guess you have a point in my personal opinion yeah so i don't want you to have a point but you've got the point you never want me to have a point don't worry i'm just kidding uh so the prosecution made the case that on the night of the murder robert had sedated his wife kathy in order to sneak out of the house unnoticed and the following day when he had gone

to pick up his parents-in-law he had also also, remember when he said like, oh, I'll go pick up your parents to make sure they're with us when they find out the news. They believe on that drive, he had used that as the time to dispose of the murder weapon that was never found. So that's kind of how they pictured the whole timeline going. So now we're all wondering like, well well how did they come up with this because it's like oh then they he threw the murder weapon away on the trip and it's like well how would you like it sounds like a guess right yeah well turns out they actually had some intel that nobody knew about hot goss oh my gosh prison goss let's put it that way. Oh, okay. So it didn't help for Robert's case that while in Long Bay Prison, Robert had confided in a fellow inmate known as Witness A, who happened to be a prison informant.

Uh-huh. Undercover. Why wouldn't you think you were going to get put with like... How stupid. why would why wouldn't you think you were gonna get put with like stupid if you were like the hot ticket like crime that people are really investigating right now why wouldn't you think they'd plant someone plant someone who's asking you about the murder i mean come on and i'll tell you in a minute how this guy witness a convinced him to talk it's just i bet he literally said this talk yeah i mean you're not fucking far off

i'll put it that way you could probably be a prison informant so look if it's just that if it's me sitting on a on a bunk bed going tell me the hot goss then actually i think you already are a prison informant and i just haven't realized it's called tea time tuesday actually oh my god also i've given you so much fucking ammo i need to be more careful oh no you are witness b as in be careful because i'll get you witness t tea time tuesday i love it okay anyway uh sorry witness a witness so witness a whose real name by the way was josh um which was later revealed according to a nine news article robert had told josh witness a that he had bought the hammer he used from a two dollar store

that he had martial arts training and that he had demonstrated on witness a a pressure point in the neck which meant he could easily incapacitate his victims so essentially what he's saying happened is he bought this hammer from the dollar store the two dollar store yeah excuse me everything is twice the price there why would you go there why would you not go listen i'm not gonna ask because maybe the quality of the hammers are slightly different dollar tree is right is right down the road, by the way. Come on. Come on. And in LA, there's the 99 cent store.

Why would you? I mean, come on. Sorry. Moving on. Maybe in New South Wales, they only have $2 stores. Who knows? Maybe. So he's basically saying now that he has this nose because of his martial arts training.

He knows of a pressure point in the neck that will incapacitate you so that is i guess goes to the point of how did they not fight back or like how did they like if he incapacitated them and then bludgeoned them right i guess it makes sense why they weren't moving or fighting right so i i don't know that i guess that's and yeah if it's in the neck maybe it's like hitting their windpipe or something so they couldn't scream and then the light sleeper next door didn't hear anything yeah exactly well if it's i mean i think what he's saying is like it knocks you unconscious basically so oh a pressure point that like incapacitates you i think is what i'm gathering but i mean i could be wrong um so in terms of josh aka witness a's tactics

and getting intel from robert getting the the tea he just kept saying that they had to look out for each other and they built a bond on that and that's literally all he did and the guy was like i'll fucking talk like bragging basically which is so fucked up i'll fucking sing yeah i'll sing for you and also you killed two children too it's not like oh i killed like some guy that did me wrong it's like you murder two children and you're bragging about it it's it's sick i mean yeah and i was kind of wondering up until this point too if he at least felt some sort of shame about it and now i have no doubts got it yeah it's yeah yeah yeah uh he thinks he's hot shit you know um so he says he killed them and he's proud of it blah blah blah uh josh even entered one conversation with robert wearing a

hidden listening device and it picked up robert talking about the murder and the murder weapon so like this guy's just blabbing away at every chance he has kind of care in the world it's probably the easiest undercover job ever but that guy had to have been thinking in his own head like are you i'm getting paid to do this yeah he did actually there was a quote where he said something like it felt like tying on my they said footy but like soccer like tying on my soccer cleats again like i was like back in the game i was like amped up i mean he's doing a good job here he must just be one of those trustworthy people that people just like blab to you know those warm eyes they always get you

just suck you right in yeah yeah so uh on trial, Robert's barrister argued that a jury shouldn't be allowed to hear these taped conversations because the tape was wholly indecipherable in parts and that Josh had misrepresented himself and violated his client's fundamental right to silence because he never would have met with Josh if he'd known he was a police officer. The judge rejected this argument and provided the recordings to the jury to be considered in the trial because that's bullshit so oh if he knew this was a cop he wouldn't have told him all about the well no shit duh that's the point of an informant of a hidden wire like what are you talking about yeah yeah that was a hail mary that did not like what about the security footage and yes exactly kitchen like if he knew there was a security camera he wouldn't be like paper

macheting his shoe boxes i mean like well duh stupid argument yeah so when explaining what rower's motive was according to the sydney morning herald prosecutor tanya smith said the perceptions of him invoked intense emotions, including anger and resentment. And he directed these emotions at Norman and his wife. She added also, he was hurting the people that had not given him the respect and admiration. He believed he was entitled to. So he just felt like he was being, he wasn't being respected by his wife's family.

So maybe they should all die, which is beyond, beyond, beyond. on top of this robert's assault of his niece brenda added another layer to this uh that perhaps by wiping out the whole family robert would be able to guarantee that brenda would live under the same roof as him which is so chilling whoa yeah that's one of those um riddles you play with people of like can you think like a killer or something of like yes how sick is that yeah i didn't even put those two things together me neither because it totally makes sense why would you even think of that but then of course he argued

to have her live with him yeah uh and years later brenda came forward to say the abuse had escalated once she moved in with disease after her family's murder which is just heartbreaking i can't even begin to think about her knowing she had to go live with him yes that's a really good point too like a finding out on facebook your whole family has been murdered and then hey you're moving in with your uncle who assaults you like yeah and and there's nowhere to run this This isn't a temporary hangout. This is like your parents are not going to save you. And every time the trial is set, it's postponed again. So like, it's just going to keep going and going and going.

So just all bad. And that added a whole new layer to it, a new horrific layer. So although the trial ended in a hung jury after 11 days of deliberation, in December 2015, after another trial, Robert was found guilty of murder in a majority verdict of 11 to 1. Who the fuck was Mr. One? Listen, I don't know. Maybe him in a mustache. Maybe him as a cardboard cutout. I don't know who the fuck was in that jury.

I don't think I'm convinced. It's like, OK. What on earth okay so yeah i mean they have it was witness b who wasn't doing his job very well i mean they have a literal tape of him talking about how he how he did it and where he disposed of the murder weapon and that guy literally fell asleep in the middle of the jury and then woke up and was like what what it's like no i don't know i mean what are we voting on yeah it must be like there's no fucking way so just wild but thank god he was finally convicted found guilty of murder and on january 12 2017 after the verdict was announced

robert proclaimed i did not murder the lynn family i am innocent and guess what his wife kathy still to this day believes he is innocent okay albert gustav sir arthur conan doyle and apparently every man albert yeah get with the program it is obvious yeah kathy like fully believes her husband and i mean to me i you know i'm no psychiatrist obviously and i'm not i'm not making a diagnosis here, but it sounds like denial. I don't think you need to be a psychiatrist. I know, you're right. It's a stupid thing to say,

it sounds like denial. Girl, get with the program. But like, you know, to find out your niece is being abused by, I mean, you hear those stories where like the parents don't want to believe it because it would just shatter their whole worldview or whatever, you know, and it just just sounds and that must just be so isolating for

brenda too that like her own aunt doesn't believe doesn't leave but yeah isn't on her side it's really really hard to hear uh again thank god for that principal who was like i fucking truly back you know teacher of the year honestly so uh kathy maintains that her husband was framed by police and that this was a prejudiced cover-up maybe she was on the jury i have no clue um so this insistence to prove her husband's innocence escalated to the extent that during the trial she would bombard her niece brenda with texts trash trash trash and brenda later explained in the seven news tv special i was very disappointed by that because when i gave evidence i told the truth and she used to send me messages saying that

he was innocent he was being framed by police i hope one day she can realize that all i did was tell the truth she's better off not with him oh my god brenda you got a fucking head on those shoulders because i would have been like brenda how on earth have you stayed grounded after so grounded you you deserve to be a mess like so mature so grounded you have gotten it you you are uh a gem you've been put through uh i would say hell but it's probably worse than that so i don't even know the right word hell sounds nice compared to this yes so it had taken four trials spanning over seven and a half years but finally robert was convicted and in february of 2017 brenda courageously talked about the brutal murder of her family on seven news and through tears she said i'd give anything to have my family

back before thanking all the people who showed her kindness quote i started off being really bitter i didn't like what happened to me i blamed the world throughout that journey every day people reached out a helping hand it's really changed my life i mean probably the most mature young person i've ever heard what a star like yeah holy shit i would not like i i would be um not that stable i can barely forgive my like high school ex-boyfriend like let alone like get over something like this and cope with it in a mature way i can't fathom i mean wow snaps to you all good energy to you for the rest of your life truly and i mean thankfully i have a positive update here which is that based on her instagram she lives with an adorable husky named sky so sweet and uh she's graduated from the university of syd Sydney and she did a degree that

seems seems to be law and it doesn't point blank say it's law but there's a picture one of her posts is a shredded textbook all over the floor with the caption the remains of my textbook I guess Skye is not too keen on taxation law and so she seems to be doing well she sounds funny she sounds like a little pistol yes exactly and sounds funny and uh you know posting positive sweet photos and getting a degree in law and having a baby husky pup i mean kicking ass yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh i think this is the first time you've ever been able to give an instagram update on someone i've definitely done some facebook ones because they were like older where you can still see their profiles right before they disappeared or whatever but yeah i think instagram's not one

i usually think to look at uh god maybe i'll think do that more often in the future but yeah well if you hear this i i don't know if you would but if if you hear this brenda like you are such a fucking rock star i can't imagine quite honestly you're my role model uh-huh well you definitely you've definitely got it together compared to me and i really complain about people ever yeah yeah well done yeah you did it you're if um i don't know what your beliefs are but i imagine the universe is smiling on you you've really knocked it out of the park agreed agreed so that is the story of the lynn family murders very tragic um very dark but you know wow another

one of those horrible horrible things but at least the guy's in fucking jail yeah but like not a moment too fucking soon like come on like that guy needed to be in jail at least a decade before yeah yeah before the murders even right like he was before the murders how about for just assaulting your fucking nissan stop jesus christ yeah yeah wow that is just i can't imagine no well i hope he's having a really horrid time there i do too i mean he killed two kids so i can't imagine people love that about him that does bode well for my wish that he's having a horrid time so anyway uh great telling of the story but what an awful story. Dude, my child's going to be born with like some, you said your child's going to be weird.

I think both our children are going to have some real weird like thoughts and stories in their heads. Well, I mean, if it's even like, you know, food and product and stuff that you put on your body and in your body that the baby retains, like imagine the stress of having to read these stories every fucking week. And the baby's going to come out being like that baby's gonna need a gravity blanket immediately my therapist is like what are you doing for self-care and i was like what do you mean nothing what are you talking about so i'm trying to be he's gonna be like i need wine i need it now sorry mom that i made wine and an aversion to you because i think we both need it um yes yes i didn't mean it i didn't know better i didn't know yeah so i uh you know what we'll see what happens too late now well anyway thank you everyone for this very long episode it was literally like a

two and a half hour episode um but i hope that you enjoyed that car ride that hopefully you're on or i hope you deep cleaned your apartment like you promised you would not just a swiffer sweep in the corner a deep clean maybe you're taking i don't know whatever you're doing i hope that you were productive make sure stain 91 is. Make sure Stain 91 is gone. Make sure Stain 91 is gone. And everyone send good energy to Brenda because, again, rock star status. So I guess that's it. Oh, well, no.

By the time this comes out, we will know the results of the webbies. But thank you to all the people who voted in the last couple weeks. Thank you so much. It means a lot. you like listening to us and um it's just a really very humbling experience yes and we appreciate you so um if you would like to follow us anywhere else you can check out our website and that's right drink.com our social media is uh atwwd podcast which is also our patreon if you would like exclusive content such as the escape room that i talked about earlier um and uh i think that's it that's it if you want to re-watch uh the other horror that is uh the maltese bagans you can go check out christine's youtube channel it's there you'll find it and that's why we drink or don't drink in my case

or my case or their case yeah this is uh this is the first episode of and that's why neither of us drink