And That's Why We Drink - E223 Schiefersaurs and Balloonatoons

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

Apologies in advance to all the cuttlefish out there... episode 223 takes us into the depths of the sea for Em's story on the legendary Kraken (as well as some wild facts about squids vs octopi) ! Then Christine covers the infamous Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski and creates a word we're never going to stop using now: "balloonatoons". And if you ever wanted to hear our take on Oswald the Octopus, we've got you covered... and that's why we drink!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Use coupon code DRINK21 for $10 off your first box at fabfitfun.comGo to Vistaprint.com/DRINK to get started on your unregiftable gift!Go to THIRDLOVE.com/DRINK now to get 20% off your first purchase!Go to Brooklinen.com and use promo code ATWWD to get $20 off, with a minimum purchase of $100!Download the 5 star-rated puzzle game, Best Fiends FREE today on the App Store or Google Play!Go to brightcellars.com/DRINK to take their 30 second quiz to get your wine matches, and receive 50% off your first 6 bottle order!

all right we are in a specific mood today i don't know what's happening i love that you say it's a specific mood but a few moments ago you said i'm in a mood that i cannot label or define it's so vague that it's a very specific level of vague you know completely you're you yeah yeah yeah we're both on the same page by we i mean me christine has to deal with this uh in real time sorry no don't worry i'm with you it's a it's a combination of sleep deprivation and also being well rested which is why it's so vaguely specific because i spent the last like two or three nights i'm not kidding not sleeping at all I like could not sleep for some reason and then last night I only slept for a short period of time but really deeply so I can't tell if I'm rested or um not so

I have had that a few times in the last two days where I keep checking if I'm dreaming because I'm like something feels weird like I'm not fully present and alive which maybe I'm just vibing off of you I'm not sure um it's also our second day recording in a row which should be interesting because em is leaving to surprise linda tomorrow i'm leaving inside jim's car oh um i uh yeah i'm going to visit my mom or by the time you've heard this uh i'm i'm already gone. I'm already gone. Hope you're having fun past M because it's over. It's all over now.

Is that why you drank this week? Or is it because you don't sleep? Or is it because of the vagueness? What's the reason? I mean, quite a plethora of things all in one. Right now, the reason I drink drink if i were to give my anxiety a label it would be because i haven't traveled in a year and i'm literally like tomorrow gonna be on a plane so i'm wow surprisingly freaked out um but i think that's probably human nature

because like i have i like my brain only knows one thing now. And now I'm about to like go into the public and interact with people. And I'm, I've definitely developed some like, like very mild agoraphobia after being quarantined this entire time and isolated. The only person outside of RJ and Allison I've seen is Eva. So I, it's kind of jarring to know I'm going to be in a huge space full of people and like I have to sit next to people and it's going to freak me out. Yeah, it's not fun on a regular day, let alone after you haven't done it for a year. I'm I'm because of a pandemic. Yeah, because of danger. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm not I'm a homebody. I don't like to be social. I mean, under very specific circumstances,

maybe but well, I definitely have have some like like germ fears now because even though i'm vaccinated i just spent the whole year telling myself if i even like stepped outside like i might get fucking covid so now i'm about to like go sit like in this little space of recycled air and like i know they say that like it's it's not as bad as i'm making up but like comparatively to like just sitting in my house listen i flew to you four times and you didn't seem to have a problem with that so you know because i'd have to do it i'm i'm happy that uh i'm happy you were safe but i also am happy i didn't have to do it because that sounded really stressful well i'm glad you're safe and uh we're

all vaccinated now and by we're all i mean like you meet Eva. So I'm thrilled about that. The trifecta. The only people that matter. I'm just kidding. Yeah, well, that's a good reason. Why do you drink? Thank you. Sorry.

I knew you were going to ask. I just didn't know how to segue into you asking me. So first of all, I'm drinking taro bubble tea because remember we talked about it recently? Yeah. So I'm drinking some taro bubble tea and it's delicious. Oh, there goes my. Oh, I thought you were like doing a very like, I thought you were so into your bubble tea that you were doing like a pan or something.

Yeah, the pan was dropping the computer directly into my lap and my face and my beverage. I see. I thought it was like like like truly meant for dramatic cinematic effect old school zooming i just like throw my body into the camera um sorry about that i would never be like a qvc presenter because clearly i don't know how to operate myself um so this is my bubble tea it's uh very good also Also, I drink because, Em, I have... Are you... Is it twins?

What? No. Oh, God. Sorry. I can't take it. Not today. Trust me. I don't think I'd be here.

I'd be, like, comatose somewhere, sleeping my anxiety away. But no. So the last couple of days, I've had a feeling something was wrong with Gio. And I swear... It sounds so cliche yeah right okay so i it sounds so cliche but i feel like being pregnant has made me like more in tune and like having weird dreams and be like more sure i don't know i can just like be more astute about things and something was off with geo and basically everyone was like he's fine and i was

like his breath smells bad and they're like his breath it's a dog he always his breath always smells bad and i was like it's different i just knew something was wrong and so you need that you need that damn pregnancy nose to sniff out the different dog breath like i'm just saying that but that's the thing too is people were like well you're pregnant it's probably because you're you know i was like yeah good point but i was like i just like yesterday he came up and like laid his head on me and i was like something's wrong like he's he's a sweet dog but he's not usually like that in my grill and I just I don't know I feel like everyone was kind of like okay Christine and so I took him to the vet and they called to check him in and they were like so what's wrong with him and I was like his breath smells and they were

like is he eating and walking I was like yeah and so I took him in and I felt really silly and then they called me like 20 minutes later and they were like his tooth is fractured and like everything under it is like totally like rotted and infected because he broke his tooth on a bone or something and like and they're like yeah so we need to do surgery and I was like oh my god okay so anyway my poor baby is sick and they did blood work and they haven't given him anything for pain or antibiotics because they're waiting on his blood work. So now I'm just like, oh, my poor baby. But now I'm like, see, I told you guys something was wrong. These maternal instincts are kicking in.

I know. Have you experienced anything like that yet? Any like maternal, like any heightened emotions toward, I mean, I don't know what maternal instincts are apparently. I don't either. Like, I don't know what maternal instincts are apparently but like they're like i don't know i like to think once you become a mom you just kind of deserve that like weird adrenaline strength like you should just have that 24 7 yeah why am i not strong enough yet let me know when you lift a bus that'd be everyone keeps telling me to stop lifting things so i can't test about

yet so i'll let you know um i did go to the doctor today or the midwife and she was like, I know you. She's like, I don't know you, but I know people who are pregnant tend to become suddenly very convinced that they are going to like move or redecorate their whole house or like build a building. And I was like, yeah, I did kind of just buy like six pieces of furniture and decide I knew how to install chandeliers. And she was like, you need to cool it is what she said what's the psychology to that like trying to like control something that you're scared of i think it's like nesting which is like the worst word ever but it's like you're trying to like make your home oh like see i would think see because i am not in a place anyway that i want a child uh congratulations by the way which is fascinating because you keep saying you're the one who's always like oh i have a plan for all my future children it's it's it's

not right now i do have a big plan when i'm ready you're like way more organized and prepared than i am you're just like give me a minute wild is like i fucking love kids and like kids love me like i there i've never met a kid that like we weren't homies by the end of the day like i'm like i'm cool with babies and all that but like the idea of like being responsible to keep it alive for the rest of my life absolutely not can you not say that to me right now i'm oh right okay sorry i'm just kidding we have a show but uh but what was i gonna say oh i would i would be rearranging everything because like i'm gonna go i'm gonna be full-blown panic stricken when i find out that i'm

gonna have a kid and i would be doing that as like distractions oh yeah i mean there's plenty of that there's plenty of yahtzee on my phone and uh other fun things that keep my mind at bay um but definitely a lot of projects and since i was so sick for 13 weeks suddenly you're like i have energy again i'm gonna oh yeah build a fence like i don't know it's really ridiculous i'm trying to learn how to garden i don't know i've just become a weird person you're becoming a mom yeah well too bad my 16 year old sister is coming over and teaching me how to garden so i'm like i guess she's the mom like i don't really know um anyway it's really not that interesting except my poor baby Gio my firstborn is sick and his tooth is ouchy and they showed it to me and it

looks really ouchy and so I just have to wait for him to get his little surgery next week but anyway that's my news sorry that's why I drink you can just uh give him a little straw peanut butter he'll have a good time and it's soft it won't hurt his teeth I know I giving him like little, yeah, soft things. We don't eat meat so we don't have meat in the house, which I'm sure he hates. Not poor dog. Not poor dog, I know. But peanut butter is always a winner. Alright, well, I've got a story for you. I was going to try to relate it to Gio, but I have no idea how I would do that. I was going to try to sagoo really nicely and it's just not going to try to relate it to Geo, but I have no idea how I would do that. I was going to try to Sagu really nicely, and it's just not going to happen.

So this is something I'm shocked I haven't covered yet, but this is the Kraken. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I know nothing. I know the Kraken. That's about it. I feel like, not to give a sour review of my own research but like i feel like i learned some things and then also learned nothing like i feel like we all kind

of have the same like collective consciousness of what the kraken is like even after you've done the research yeah i was like oh so we're i was kind of right so we've all come back full circle to our starting point okay so but there i mean there's uh this is more the history of the kraken and you know what it does the kraken exist so i don't even totally understand what it is so i feel like i'm gonna learn something today all i knew going into this was uh see oh his little mouth is working though that's the thing is like i couldn't take him sorry it's okay he's saying my teeth hurt peanut butter yeah uh um he's being a little cutie pie that's scorpio look he's trying to get all the attention from you he can't until there's a whole ass baby in your house i think

he probably knows you the other day someone on instagram well a few a lot of people on instagram said like oh my god imagine if it's a scorpio it'll be the first scorpio m loves and i'm like has everyone forgotten about giovanni and has everyone forgotten too that geo and i fucking hated each other when we first met everyone's like wow so you like made an exception for one scorpio i was like i got broken down into that yeah yeah that was like psychological warfare on his part it was proximity effect i think because like that dog could not have hated me more when we first met wait that's so cute i mean it's not cute but it is cute now it'll be cute again i guess quote if your baby is a scorpio and it just fucking hates me for three years and then and then we're tight oh i see what's happening our

new litter box is getting delivered it's getting delivered it was delivered a day late so geo probably has a feeling i'm buying presents for the cats oh god um not for again he's feeling like he doesn't have attention just saying the cats get a present what else is new um anyway sorry that's why he's not in daycare because of his teeth i just wanted to clarify that um i see he is a home today work from home today okay so the kraken so my my memory before i did this research my my thought of the kraken was just like i don't know why but in my mind green uh see like sea monster i always thought of like cthulhu like just like this like little like floaty alien

tentacle guy same um i still kind of feel that way um okay he is not as massive in size anymore as my original thoughts were but that's the only thing that's really changed uh and also i will i've seen people actually reach out and ask if i would one day cover cthulhu so one day but that's not today interesting maybe this is his uh his origin story sorry are you one of the people who gets like the actual little balls in your tea yeah it's bubble tea what do you think i asked for it without boba yeah i literally get what's the point honestly the point is it's tea after all the other tea places i go to of clothes for the night you're not a bubble tea person no for my for my birthday last year eva got me a boba making kit i love it it's like my favorite activity i didn't know that about you yeah i well

it just feels like i'm just like chewing on jello while drinking tea exactly that's the point not my jam all right so uh the kraken so some stories of sea monster some stories of this sea monster go all the way back to um ad 77 year 77 what um by plinny plinny the elder oh yeah plinny i learned this from sawbones or plinny i think but it's technically supposed to be plinny plinny no plinny wait shit clearly i didn't learn it at all i was gonna say i didn't learn it well well i need to pay more attention clearly um i apologize plenty or plenty plenty big p um the elder from rome so he he wrote uh this uh this work called the creature that came from the ocean and basically said this is like the very first reference we can come up with of a sea monster in general at least uh for this for this region because there's the interesting thing about the kraken is it's kind of this universally understood uh cryptid at this point because people have been talking about it for

hundreds and hundreds of years and so there's like scandinavian lore there's german lore there's greek lore there's roman lore so for rome rome at least the uh first text is in the year 77 by Big P. And he says that this monster used to be seen when it would show up near all the pigling, pigling, yikes, pickling, near all the pickling

tubs where people would leave their fish to brine and this monster would come up and eat the fish. Okay. I get it. It has some sardines yeah it's just like like me at the pickle barrel at the grocery store it's like me with pickled herrings and you running in the other direction yeah no that's yeah that's exactly it and also especially the part me running away um so apparently one night when it uh went up to the pickling tubs the dogs surrounded it and the people in town actually saw it up close for the first time.

And this is a quote about its description. The size of the polypus was enormous beyond all conception. And then it was covered all over with dried brine and exhaled a most dreadful stench. At one instant, it would drive off the dogs by its horrible fumes and lash at them with its strong arms and i paraphrased there at the end it was really long but basically it would lash out with its strong arms um i can follow that it was apparently so massive and strong that it could barely be taken down by three spears at a time and its head alone was as big as 15 amphorae, which apparently is jars of wine. That's a lot of wine.

So, and apparently it also had a beard, which I'm confused by. That's fun. Just a big old squidward with a beard. Why not? So later on after it was slain, they ended up saying that its remains were 700 pounds. Oh my. Just to give you an idea of how big this guy is. So now we time travel away from year 77.

And now we're in year 1180. And this is when, like, that was probably the most, the earliest reference at all of the Kraken. But in 1180 is when we start really hearing about the Kraken. Which, by the way, makes it one of the longest known and longest... Seriously? The cryptid that has longest been researched on if it exists at all. Okay. So in 1180, it starts in Nordic folklore and uh there's some references to sea monsters but we really uh see it only a couple decades later in the 13th century there's this icelandic story

called the saga saga of orvar odor and it's this character where him and his son have to face these two beasts at different points in the story and the two monsters are called half gufa and lingbacher and half gufa is apparently translated to sea mist and lingbacher is uh translated to Heather back. Fun fact. They sound like Pokemon, Seamist. They do. They do, right? And so in this story, the father and son have to fight off the Huff Goofa and the Lingbacher. And both of them seem to have different traits

of what we later think of as the Kraken. So I don't know if one was supposed to be the literal Kraken or if um just different characteristics of both of them ended up becoming part of the lore so for example the lingbacher is uh it said that every time people would get on the lingbacher's back because it was so massive you could just basically stand on it that's fun oh my god i forgot that it's thursday the fucking i was just

about to say i don't know if you hear it outside but like we have like trash coming up and down the streets clearly there's a reason no it's not your fault we have the same thing going on here and i keep worrying that it's too loud thursday is gardening day apparently yeah that was a gardening day at my old house and we recorded every thursday anyway so clearly we haven't learned our fucking lesson anyway sorry if i have to pause it when he he's gonna get real close and personal at some point so oh i remember him don't worry uh okay so for example lingbacher he was so big that people could just like stand on him and just like apparently ride him if he wanted to fun i don't think lingbacher liked this but someone should

have asked for consent but yeah well apparently uh one of the things that he does is if you were to get on his back he then tries to like shake you off or he'll go underwater to almost like suck you into the water wow how fun why would you ever get on that it's like a bull ride like a rodeo bull it's like a bull ride plus a an ocean vortex where you get sucked into this uh the forces of whirlpools plus like an actual sea monster trying to murder you right i forgot about that but yeah so and that ends up being a part of the lore of the kraken over time it kind of evolves but the the big thing is the Kraken is so big that it sucks you down into the water. Also, in Greek mythology, Odysseus had to sail past a six-headed beast called Scylla.

Or Scylla, maybe. I don't know how to pronounce it. But basically, every region has their own version of a sea monster. And so all of them are kind of this weird mishmash of what becomes the Kraken. I see. So the word Kraken comes from Old Norse, the term at Krake, which apparently means to drag down, which is what this thing like drags you into the water. And Krake has to do with like anchors on a boat or something. Also, in German, german crack is octopus right

uh yeah like crack crack crack obviously exactly like that makes a lot of sense i guess i never really thought about that uh as being actually related to the crackin octopus in german weirdly one of the words i didn't seem to learn before i turned five kraken without the n yeah de kraken damn you say it's so cool octopus or kraken so and a lot of theories which i'll get into it later but a hefty majority uh or not a hefty majority but a close runner-up to the hefty majority is that people think that this could actually just be uh an octopus um so that would make sense why they would name it that so now the kraken is kind of just starting in like the 1300s and still really until now it's just this umbrella understanding of like this tentacled monster that is known to be violent in some way to people out at sea and so by 1250 there's another norwegian text that says it's called the canoes skug sia skugza beautiful i literally have a friend uh

that was raised in norway and could just pronounce these things for me and i didn't even ask i don't know what's wrong with me does she listen to the show i hope not no it's reno i know she's doing her own i didn't know if we were throwing her name out there oh no but i've heard her speak uh like speak the language i'm like oh my god like i don't even know if i could pronounce a single word so no i don't it's probably for the best i didn't even ask but anyway so this norwegian text uh it says that there could have only been two krakens to exist or two sea monsters that would have existed because they were so massive that, first of all, apparently they couldn't reproduce. But even if they could, they were so massive that there was not enough like food in their general vicinity that they would have been able to survive and grow up. Oh my, that's unfortunate. But then that makes me think like like how did the first ones get

there that's a very good question so uh although the kraken uh is now finally gaining recognition one of his downfalls is he was not included in this one book from the fifth the late 1500s called the history animalium which was basically this encyclopedia, which I don't know if it exists anymore, but I fucking need a copy of it. It's an encyclopedia that talked about all known creatures, whether or not they actually were real. So I think I remember, I think I've heard about this. We must have talked about it on a different, maybe there's like, you've talked about it.

Maybe like Nessie or someone was mentioned in there, but, uh, or maybe, um, what's it called? Oh shit. What's it called? Oh, shit. What's it called? What's the German one? Totsail worm. Oh, oh, oh, maybe. I think that's your I feel like maybe around that time you talked about.

I'm not positive, but look, you've got the maternal instincts kicking in. So I'm just going to about the totsail worm. You were able to smell Gio's breath and think of the totsill worm you were able to smell geo's breath and think of the totsill worm on the spot so maybe you're onto something uh but yeah so anyway so it's this text that like it's all known animals including those that have just been discovered and we don't know too much about them or rumored like mythical creatures that's very cool so you would think the kraken who at this point it's the 1500s it's already been mentioned on and off for the last 400 years didn't even get put in the book and unicorns got put in the book so which by the way were described as wild asses so which i think well that's rude uh they are

kind of wild i in terms of like my brain breaking when i think about them maybe it's a thing also realistically the reason the kraken wasn't included in some of the volumes is because um i guess in some of the volumes they didn't list uh maritime animals like nautical animals and then other people say no no the kraken always was mentioned in it he just didn't go by that name it just he was generally listed under sea serpent so so and the debate is roaring i see okay since the 1500s we can't solve it but oh my god but anyway like in in theory uh if you're just looking up sea serpents and he does fall into that category then yes he got mentioned but not a standalone post got it so in 1555 there's this guy named olaus magnus who wrote about this monster that had quote sharp and

long horns round about like a tree root up by the roots okay that was the next cameo we get from the sea monster and then in the 1700s at this point the kraken is a household name in a lot of places especially norway since that's kind of where most of the um original lore started but now the stories are starting to kind of twist into the fact that the kraken will eat a whole like ship of people and then it's becoming this like sailor uh sailor lore of like when you're out at sea the kraken's gonna get you it's just like a casual upgrade that suddenly he's eating entire boats like yeah he was a little scary and some dogs ran away and now suddenly he's swallowing ships he was just he was just eating some briny fish by the seashore and now all of a sudden that's right

well and to be fair they did say he didn't have enough food so So what do you expect? He's looking wherever he can get it. He's hungry. But I guess now he's mad because he wasn't mentioned in the Historiae Anomalia. I would be mad too, my friend. So he's like, time to square up. I'm hungry and I wasn't in that book. So watch out, world. I'm coming for you.

Kraken is making his name. So by the 1700s, are kind of uh shaping the story into the kraken is a a threat a fun fact before we stop before we keep going i wanted to say that my favorite kraken fact is uh i forgot this earlier and i just don't want to miss the opportunity near the north sea they found resin-like fossils that are allegedly crack and poop. And I thought that was very fun. I don't know how on earth they got to that place. I definitely did not do a deep dive where I should have.

But I saw that and I was like, oh, it's going in the notes. That's like for sure you and I as any sort of scientist. Like, I bet I know what this is. Write it down. Exactly. It's like, oh, it's poop. It's obviously Bigfoot's poop. It's obviously not a normal animal. It a unicorn it's a wild ass it's it's mothman sweat or something um

oh swanky oh la la say less so um okay so yeah so uh this is when he's getting big and around this time the kraken has also made his presence or his uh his notoriety notoriety known in uh other countries and okay the the the general threat that he does is that either he takes his big tentacle arms and he either swats or pushes down on the ship and capsizes the ship and then you end up in the water or he's like chamu and like eats the entire ship including you open up open wide what was the what was the whale's name in pinocchio start with an m i don't monster dick oh pinocchio scared me so i only watched half of it and then never saw it again Monstro. Moby Dick? Pinocchio scared me, so I only watched half of it and then never saw it again.

I had to turn it off when he turned into a wild ass, a literal donkey. Remember? No, I'm telling you I didn't watch. He literally turns, the cartoon one when he starts turning into a donkey. Why? Oh, oh, oh, I thought you meant a unicorn. Yeah, I do remember the donkey part. I mean little wild ass not a not a fancy i see i see no because like he was like on the land that was frightening on an island of bad boys or something and bad boys turned into asses i think was like

freaky the adult message that i took from it but yeah i remember watching him transform and i was just so beyond petrified it's horrifying i do remember that actually so how did we get on donkeys oh monstro more more monstros yeah so yeah so it basically just kind of like takes the entire ship down and you go down with it but the the main thing is that either its arms will like it's lying underneath your ship and then its arms will kind of just grab up and pull you down or that um people often think like the original 13th century lore it's so big that they think it's an island or maybe they can like dock their boat on it or something and so then it will pull down really fast and create this vortex in the water and basically you get whirlpooled in and you just

disappear forever um cool cool cool cool one of the two so in 1735 kraken has apparently stepped it up with his with the word on the street how scary he is and so now even though he wasn't mentioned in that first text he's now mentioned by lineus who is the father of taxonomy and he put kraken into the very first edition of the Systema Natura, which was like the taxonomical breakdown of all organisms. So I think it was like the kingdom phylum class, the genus species thing that we all learned in like eighth grade. So I think the Kraken got his own scientific name. Yes. uh so i think the kraken got his own scientific name uh yes okay so according to this taxonomy breakdown that he got put into he is technically a cephalopod which is a cuttlefish octopus squid kind of situation sure and the his scientific name is microcosmus marinus which means the microcosm of the marine oh his manager really stepped it up

i know i gotta get in this fucking book and i gotta make it big he got himself a pr team there to give himself like a like a name like that the micro yeah that's a superhero name to me that's pretty baller super villain so uh fun fact since he is now listed technically as a cephalopod a fun fact is that the cuttlefish is actually classified under the same genus as the kraken so in some cases the kraken is technically a cuttlefish that so what exactly is a cuttlefish because it always sounds like really cuddly and i feel like it's probably not i also always thought it was a like a cuddly fish but it's actually t's not d's that makes it sound a lot scarier like cutting cuddling to cutting yeah cutting me yeah it's i'm looking at it it's something

i'd rather not cuddle with no offense um no offense if you're in the room with me if you're listening to our podcast cuddle fish cephalopods please don't sign into our dms we don't want it we don't want it um okay so fun fact technically a cuttlefish but that's interesting to me because the cuttlefish of the three squid octopus and cuttlefish is like the least likely like the main theories are squid and octopus not cuttlefish even though based on original taxonomy it was more cuttlefish than the other two although a cuttlefish looks though based on original taxonomy it was more cuttlefish than the other two although a cuttlefish looks like cthulhu like with the creepy mouth have you looked at one no i look at it it like has these weird mouth tentacles so that i think is called its beak

you because i know that makes it again like every time you think stop it's happening it's like the worst i know octopi have beaks i knew that so its beak ends up being part of uh the research that people use later there's actually one person i forget his name now but back in like 2011 i didn't keep this in my notes back in 2011 a researcher or a paleontologist actually found a what he thinks is a prehistoric squid beak that was like crazy bigger than normal size to imply that they used to be like dinosaur sized squid which could be the kraken so which is my nightmare and also the kraken but mostly my nightmare so uh although he the kraken made it into this first edition lenaeus i think that's his name or lenaeus he alleged he ended up regretting adding the cryptid to his data and and then

took him out of future editions oh that's not gonna make him happy flew too close to the sun right there he was only the spotlight for a short time too big but in 1752 the kraken is mentioned again in a new book called the natural history of norway and the author was bishop eric pontipeden he says that the kraken has a circumference of two and a half kilometers holy crap that's a big boy and uh he also says that the kraken is so big oh that people mistake him for a mountain or land and so people don't really one of the reasons why he's such a well-hidden cryptid is because he's hiding in plain sight because he you could literally be standing on him and you wouldn't know because a lot of people think he's an island or a mountain or something because he

could just be like half of him could be sitting up over above the water and you think you're just like hanging out on a rock in the water and it's actually the kraken it's his booty it's his tushy and this book also says that he is so big just to give you a frame of reference quote an entire regiment of soldiers could practice their battle maneuvers on his back i hope they they don't because it's probably too she. That's part of the warfare there. That's part of the training, actually, is you have to get away from the Kraken. That's the psychological warfare that, yeah, that convinced you to like Geo. A lot of the same.

All the same. It felt like I was, you know, fighting for my life when I first met him. A battle on a Kraken. Sorry, I don't know where my brain is kind of fried right now i apologize we missed the chance earlier but i'm going to go back to when we were saying that people were sitting on his tushy we're you were sitting on the kraken's crack damn it you're so i'm so glad you came up with that because people would have tweeted it it was a delayed job but the kraken's crack is absolutely something i needed to shout out anyway crack of the kraken i mean it has a nice ring to it yeah yeah so i'm sorry so okay i think so so

the book also tells of the story of a man that had accidentally ended up on the back of the kraken the crack of the kraken the back side of the kraken and uh his name or he was the bishop of meterose and the bishop thought that the kraken was an island when really the kraken was sleeping and so he was hanging out on the kraken i guess and he went there for a mass with his church and apparently in this story the kraken was polite enough and respectful enough to wait for the mass to end and for everybody to leave before he went off on his merry way. Oh, no. So apparently he's religious or respectful of religion. How open minded.

How open minded of him. him uh so this same author also described the kraken as quote round flat and full of arms or branches and the largest and most surprising of all the animal creation oh okay he's stepping it up in in the books again yeah so also in the around this time the kraken was was such a popular monster that he was also now included in the uk's first modern scientific survey of the natural world fun fact and then 30 years later in the 1780s uh jacob wallenberg wrote about the kraken in his own story where he says quote kraken stays the kraken stays at the sea floor constantly surrounded by innumerable small fishes who serve as his food and are fed by him in return for his meal lasts no longer than three months and after three uh and another three

then are needed to digest it so every six months the kraken feeds basically oh okay and apparently there's some weird situation with his throat where he does this belching motion that has it serves a few purposes and one is that when he belches or it stretches his throat enough to catch all of these fish but then something else happens where the grub that the grub that he breathes out afterwards feeds the rest of the fish nearby that was kind of the understanding i had oh why so but so he lures in fish in this way and so um but one of the other ways that apparently the kraken is uh rumored to get his food by wire.com no less the kraken has quote a strong and peculiar scent which can emit at certain times and by means of which it draws other fish to many old fishermen uh it's evacuation poop it's colored it colors the surface of the water

which appears quite thick and turbid basically he shits all over the ocean and then it's so thick and colorful it lures the fish in why it was a bad taste fish quote this muddiness muddiness goodbye is said to be so agreeable to the smell or taste of other fishes that they gather together from all parts and keep and for that purpose directly over the kraken so basically they love they're going fucking crazy it's like catnip for them but it's poop and they find the kraken and then he quote opens his arms or horns apparently he's got fucking horns too he seizes and swallows his welcome guests and converts them after due time by digestion into bait for other fish of the same kind so that is the two he just keeps pooping them out and then drying back in eating and pooping horrifying yep yep so that's the two ways either the belching thing

maybe it's a combination where he does the poop thing and brings them in and then with the belching thing he stretches around them and eats them but those are the ways that we think the kraken probably catches its food and because it takes them like three months to digest you don't have to worry about it after the kraken has eaten recently but how do we know how we know i'm going to guess an answer for you because it kind of goes with the next point i was going to say which is that because the kraken draws in all these fish a lot of fishermen want to find the kraken or want to find this huge source of fish and so i would imagine wherever the fish are the most popular is where that's how you know that the kraken's about to eat maybe if the water looks really fucking gnarly because he's pooping everywhere but so the point i was going to make

though is since the fishermen are always going to make though is since the fishermen are always trying to follow the fish and the fish are always following the kraken it really perfectly sets up this continual lore of like the the kraken could always be nearby because you're you're literally trying to find the source of the kraken it's like danger zone when you're fishing out there exactly so um the kraken is also said uh oh violent belch i already did that okay um no we can go over it again we could talk geo also has a violent belch especially now with his little stinky breath he certainly does i'm not going to deny that i love geo burps though not the not the smell but the sound they They're very interesting. He just kind of goes, uh, and he does it

in your face. He'll crawl up to you and you think he's trying to cuddle with you and he won't even open his mouth. He'll just go like, uh, directly in your face. It's very rude. Okay, so the lore also seems to imply, I have said this earlier, that the Kraken likes to take

down ships with its arms or make whirlpools um and so as of like the 1800s that is the firm understanding of how the kraken will get you it's either the arms like in like those like not that there are many to to date but in my mind there have been at least one or two childhood sea movies where there's some horrible massive creature in the sea and it's almost like tentacle latches on from one side of the ship tentacle latches on from the other side of the ship and so that and the whirlpool vortex thing are just understood by the 1800s that's how it will get you um and in 1848 the ship the ship called the dadalus dadalus it says that it saw this creature firsthand and the sailors say that the creature

was 60 feet long um which to me though 60 feet long is still not oh by the way for um reference i looked up a school bus which apparently school buses are 45 feet long just to give you a reference oh okay well that doesn't seem as big as like... I thought this thing was like Godzilla of the sea. Well, they said two and a half kilometers. I know. But in my head, I just kind of always ignored any numbers that came my way about it. And I was just like, this thing is a fucking Goodyear blimp.

No, but what I'm saying is two and a half kilometers is like half a 5K. Like, that's fucking massive. Not the size of a school bus apparently um so diff so different stories say different things but apparently the farther back in time you go the bigger it is so i think that's why i always thought that it was massive because whenever i think of like a horror story at sea, it's always kind of old timey in my head anyway. But apparently as time goes on and we have more and more modern science,

the Kraken has gotten smaller and smaller. Okay. Cause like how many feet did you say? 60 feet? 60 feet. Okay. I just looked up two and a half kilometers. That's 8,202 feet.

So like that is quite a difference i think also if you think about because i have this is like just a random ignorant opinion but i would imagine at a time when people are writing stories like the odyssey and shit like when like i don't think i don't know if it was more believable or not but i feel like you just kind of expected that monsters were this crazy outlandish godlike you know otherworldly beings and so i feel like since the story was kind of expected that monsters were this crazy outlandish godlike you know otherworldly beings and so i feel like since the story was kind of getting thrown all over the region with those kind of mindsets then maybe they were bigger and scarier i don't really know but basically as we've been trying to prove it more and more and science has been like there's nothing

that big the story of the size begins to diminish it becomes more of an octopus and less of a kraken yeah so back in you know greek mythology times or 77 a.d this thing was like the biggest thing on earth right but now we've gotten all the way to the 1850s and it's only 60 feet i see okay probably just because as time goes on it needs to be become more and more realistic to believe i don't not sure but so anyway so the ship dealt with the sea creature and the sailor said it was probably just because as time goes on it needs to be become more and more realistic to believe i'm not sure but so anyway so the ship dealt with the sea creature and the sailor said it was about 60 feet but apparently sir richard owen i don't know if he was on this ship and was one of the sailors or if he just like came in and mansplained the situation without being there he in fact was the

person who invented the word dinosaur sorry what really sir richard owen was the man who invented the word dinosaur i mean good for him to not say owen sore because i would like for sure name it after myself because she for sore i feel like that's such a good point like damn if i created something as badass as the word dinosaur yeah right it would absolutely be in there i would regret that for the rest of my life like shit i didn't if i knew this term would become so big i would have put my name in there he's probably thinking the same thing so uh sir richard owen he created the word owensor really that's what he told his friends at the barley's yeah poor owen but so he said like oh this story about the sailor seeing this 60 foot monster it

was not a 60 foot monster it was probably a seal and then the cap the captain was like fuck you we know what a seal looks like like this wasn't a seal seriously but apparently it terrified the entire ship and they were they like swore up and down this kraken like creature was in the water and up until now uh because the size is slowly getting smaller and smaller but we haven't really covered the actual definition of what this thing looks like beyond the fact that it has tentacles right um so up until now so from 77 a.d or maybe more or less like the 13th century all the way up until the mid-1800s, this thing has been described as everything under the sun. So this, the kraken was very crab-like to some people. It was like this massive crab. Some

people said it was a massive lobster. I think they were just going with whatever animal they knew that existed in the ocean. Yeah. And there were a lot of stories that just called it this misshapen mass, quote. i think over time it just kind of morphed into just general sea serpent um especially probably because it was mentioned as a sea serpent in the in that book forever ago yeah um so everyone had a different opinion but only until the 1850s did people settle on what this thing looked like which by the way explains why all over the goddamn world for years and years and years everyone had an encounter with this thing because they were just having encounters with sea creatures and it

it could have been anything of any size could have been a fucking lobster and you're like man this kraken really had me um so only up until this point was it super massive super powerful and could have looked like anything but now by the50s, only now is when we're officially deciding that this creature is a squid-like creature. I see. So this happens in 1857. There's a plot twist because all of a sudden this random cephalopod creature was found on a beach. And after studying its beak, this became the first documented giant squid. Okay. Okay. uh this became the first documented giant squid okay okay maybe because it was the most mysterious

thing to come out of the ocean yet they were like ah this thing's the fucking guy we've been talking about but they were like kraken yes okay so that's what this is we're just going to call it so um and it's it was this giant squid in the 18. And it ended up being classified as, its scientific name was Archituthis ducks. Sounds like a drunk person invented that. It does not sound real. But also, this is another step up for the Kraken because now he's officially written back into science. He's back, baby! Come back! the kraken because now he's officially written back into science oh he's back baby after everything he's been written in a bunch of stories he's been written in a bunch of texts as a mythical creature

but now because a creature that we're calling the kraken or calling a kraken like animal has been written into science he has now planted himself really into like i exist but since we're talking about giant squid i wanted to ask you do you know the difference between a squid and an octopus oh no i used to i've always heard that um squidward is actually an octopus not a squid well octopi have eight tentacles i guess right but so do oh shit okay uh octopi i have the answer don't worry one of them have ink squid have ink squids have ink well maybe i i don't know if octopi have ink i think i know i thought that was just a squid i don't know m so i uh squids are bullet shaped with fins

because they and the reason for this is because they actually swim more. Okay. And they have eight legs and they have two tentacles. So the difference is if they have eight legs and two tentacles. Okay. And if you ever look at Squidward, he has six legs that he walks on and two arms. So technically he has a full eight legs and no tentacles, and therefore he is technically an octopus. Okay.

But so if you like, he's bullet shaped with fins, and they also have apparently, I don't know if this is real. This doesn't feel right, but apparently they only have tentacles on the tips, like, or suction cups on the tips of their tentacles versus octopus. Octopi have it on their yeah because if you eat calamari which i don't oh well then never mind but uh a lot of it is just it's not like tentacled but octopus usually is well there you have it so um again they have this the the bowl shape and the fins it's because they swim more versus uh octopi who live on the sea floor oh and so they don't need uh the extra tentacles or fins to swim around they don't need the bullet shape to be more uh to move faster through the water to show off like they're squid

they're here for a long time not a good time i would agree with that and so they instead of having a bullet shape body they have a circular body and they are um they like are those have that creepy thing where they can change into like literally any shape to get through the smallest hole octopi are creepy and they're so smart like yeah i don't eat calamari or squid anymore because apparently they're like extremely intelligent animals and i feel bad about it they are both known to be super smart um but yeah so the reason that they have that ability where they like basically shape shift is because since they live on the sea floor they need to be able to hide under rocks and stuff down there and so they can pretty much morph into anything it's so creepy so based on those descriptions in a sailor story you based on however they describe it to you you can determine

for yourself if the kraken is more squid or octopus but more often than not especially because now it has been listed scientifically as a giant squid people think of it as a giant squid okay so scientific american says that the giant squid the largest one on record is 18 meters which apparently is around 60 feet um so not kraken territory but we can dream and uh wired.com says that there is an even bigger squid uh quote that makes the giant squid look downright cuddly but not a cuttlefish not quite cuddly as a cuttlefish uh quote stalking the waters of antarctica is the colossal squid. No, thanks. Which, while measuring about the same length as the giant squid, aka it's still only up to 60 feet, it has a more robust mantle.

And also it has, instead of on its suction cup tentacles, it also has hooks. Ew. So, quote, the colossal squid is the only reason that we can assume that the kraken is more likely a giant squid versus a colossal squid even though the colossal squid is in theory thicker and larger um the colossal squid is super fucking lazy um so like i wasn't expecting that so like it doesn't give a shit like if there was a ship full of sailors it the colossal squid is not going to be the one that gets you oh you can hang out on his booty all day you can just hang out on that tushy apparently he is literally it's estimated that the colossal squid quote uses up

to 600 times less energy than similar sized creatures that's incredible that sounds like me yeah it does it sounds like i mean not just you but yeah us as a team i don't mean to throw you under the bus but no i i admit i it's like i surely have 600 less energy than my roommate ralph james well i think all of us have 600 at least less than him the olympian yeah we whenever we've played our big uh our big quarantine outing the only time we've left the house is to go play disc golf because literally nobody you're the only people on the field and we have kind of this like more or less abandoned disc golf course near our apartment oh so there's only ever like three cars there it's like never happening like it's so you're

just frothing by yourselves just frothing and so uh that's what we've been doing to get outside and away from people and we brought rj one time that man was off the goddamn walls with his energy he was like literally literally like a 12 year old he was like running up to a tree and then jumping to like kick off of it and stuff and i was like i was like what is your deal like get back in the car it's. Why do you think I invited you to play a sport? Because it requires zero energy. It's like a golden retriever just fucking like running and running and running. He had the zoomies.

He had the zoomies. The zoomies. Oh, Ralph James. Anyway, in the world of animals, I am the colossal squid. Because I... And like the giant squid it sits uh for its prey instead of runs anyone down but in terms of energy the giant squid would be the one that would attack and the giant squid apparently is known to be violent so oh my you don't want to

be the giant squid then no no no so people think that's probably more likely to be the Kraken. So in 1861, the first reliably documented encounter of ship versus monster happened where there was this warship called the Allerton. And it saw an actual giant squid and shot at it. And again, I don't know why they shot at it. No, don't do that. It seems like you could just drive past it in the ocean. And one sailor actually did hit the squid and then they tried to drag it on board and all this. But this was the first interaction that we can truly fully document that a giant squid and sailors interacted. Okay.

But nothing happened to the sailors. So there's that. Did nothing happen to the squid? I mean, the squid died, but that was it. Oh, see, that's what I hate. It's like, oh, these evil squids are like attacking humans. It's like you're literally just rolling up in its territory, shooting it and dragging it onto your. What do you mean?

Like you're the violent one. Hold on to that for two more bullets. So no, you're right. Just hang in there for two more bullets and then I'll let you get all fired up. So eight years after this encounter, this is when Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea book came out, which fun fact and back to the future worlds. This is Dr. Emma Brown's favorite book. We know it well. And but when this book was translated into English, this is when areas near us, when our region started to see more sea monster lore.

And so thank you, Jules Verne. Truly to me, I know I mentioned this earlier, but what I think really solidified like the Kraken as we know it is H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu, which came out in the 1920s. So not for another 50 years since Jules Verne's 20,000 Leaks. I think the English translation came out in the 1920s so not for another 50 years since jewel jules verne's 20 000 leaks i think the english translation came out in the 80s uh the 1880s and then the and then cthulhu came out in i think 1928 so that was a nice 40 years to translate that into english and really develop the sea monster lore and then cthulhu came out so i think those things combined are really what got yeah that makes sense at least at least in and how it got translated to me i think it started with those two works because i've heard i mean i think most of us have heard at least heard of those yeah both of those and for those of you who don't know

a giant squid was part of the 20 000 what if it wasn't what if it just had absolutely nothing to do people were probably like why on earth did you fucking mention that charles dickens a tale of two cities it's nothing to do you know othello so anyway it sounds like cthulhu someone can someone uh recreate othello and cthulhu together that sounds like a big ask but if you can do it go for a cosmic sea monster but also uh a shakespearean drama oh how cute is that a little octopus did you ever watch a show oswald the octopus i'm sorry are you talking like i don't fucking know oswald okay well and his dachshund weenie okay because i watched a lot of kids shows

for way too long and I recognize that. Okay, good. The penguin was such an asshole. I know, he was a dick. I want two marshmallows on my hot chocolate. No more, no less. I'm so happy you know about Oswald because sometimes they say these things

and people are like, that was a rare Canadian show that literally nobody saw except you and your German family. So sometimes I don't know what's like normal, but I loved Oswald. a rare canadian show that literally nobody saw except you and your german family so sometimes i don't know what's like normal but i loved oswald i remember at like i would like to say as a child but maybe like closer to being like a tween i remember watching oswald and being like i don't know much about the world yet but that penguin's a fucking dick i remember he was a dick and my

favorite animals were penguins yeah and i was like my favorite animals were penguins i was like you aren't giving penguins a bad fucking name you know what i think um and i i say this about oswald but i mean a lot of the like nick jr or like disney kids shows from that time i think they really relieved anxiety because if you think about oswald there was no real like it was like really slow background music oswald was literally fucking doing nothing in every episode oh yeah he was like strolling he was like just like strolling walking so goddamn slow and i think like the biggest plot point that ever happened in one of those episodes was he like returned a jacket like he like it was so calming he was like too polite he really would if he got bumped into he would

just spend 10 minutes apologizing and i think that's where i learned my anxiety where like all of a sudden i live in a world of hustle and bustle i'm not in oswald's town wait i just looked up who the do you know who voices oswald fred savage i had no idea i actually didn't know but in my memory i just heard oswald's voice and. Oh, that's hysterical. I can totally see it, but I never would have thought of that. It was just such a calming show. I love Oswald. Wow. With his little hat.

Oh, my God. I feel better already. You know what? He's actually the liberal grandchild of his grandpa, the Kraken. He's made great strides. He went to therapy. He did work on himself. He worked on himself.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. He cut out a lot of toxic folks in his life. I mean. That's why all he's got, he's got one bad apple left in his circle. Oh, I meant the penguin. But he's got Weenie, his emotional support animal. That's right.

And he's got that one last toxic friend he's trying to like learn boundaries with. But it's okay he's there he's on it everyone else is like okay my god please everyone's like literally what are you talking what if it's the only you and i ever watched this show okay but the last thing i'm gonna say is for those of you who don't believe me on this anxiety theory i have just if you have anxiety today go listen to the oswald theme song and you won't have anxiety by the way i know i'm literally have like google image search i just typed in oswald the octopus and i've like felt my blood pressure just dropping like fully i think there was a reason why even though i was quote

older maybe that's why i watch it i think i watched it because i was all of a sudden like 13 and hormonal and dealing with algebra and i was like i need oswald i need we had enough conflict in our lives we didn't want to watch more of it on tv i was desperately in the closet i needed an octopus to hold on to you know like eight tentacles to just grab on tight okay okay uh wow back to back to this okay so in 1874 this is the point where you're allowed to get all fired up. I know we just got you calmed down. Oh no, I just calmed myself down. But in 1874, this was 13 years after the first documented account where sailors shot at a giant squid. 13 years later, there's another giant squid encounter with a ship. And this guy actually fucking takes down the whole ship.

This is the first time some actual Kraken stuff is going on that we can quote document quote i say that loosely but the story that goes crazy in the 1870s is that this squid literally dragged down a 150 ton schooner oh no but apparently the story that i read from it was that like the captain or the sailors were like shooting at it and eventually someone shot it and it got mad and then it like took it down yeah oh so i said loosely that that that happened because there is no actual document of it on like a ship registrar or in maritime museums but this is like this story went more or less viral for the 1870s i just hate that because it's like oh it's so it's vicious it attacked me it's like you're literally shooting it with what like what on earth do you

expect i know i know also this story apparently got so much talk uh through the grapevine that popular science had to do a review about the kraken to try to like break down if it really exists or not. And so probably in response to this story, Popular Science Review said that the Kraken is, quote, a stupendous production of human imagination. Stupendous indeed. That's where they stand on this. And everyone's like, we didn't ask you, Popular Science. Sit down. Nobody asked you so maybe this ended up just kind

of being like sensationalized or you know not totally legitimate uh journalism but here is the article that people read this is from the sunday times may 10th holy shit it's may 6th i thought it was going to be may 10th that would have been so cool wait does this come out on may 10th no it comes out in two weeks fuck i can't get it together okay whatever this is from 1874 it says a ship capsized and then sank the crew of the and also i'm paraphrasing because it was very flowery and i'm just trying to get to the point uh a ship capsized and then sank and the crew of the small boat got into the water but they were picked up by the crew of another ship that was apparently

witnessing this entire experience can you imagine being that sailor being like yo that sucks like oh shit don't look now it'll end up on like barstool usa or whatever somebody's like zooming in with their old like nokia like trying to get a video i like how in 1874 nokia was still considered old okay so uh they were picked up by the crew of another ship the strathoen uh they claimed they themselves shot at a giant squid floating in silence which means it was at peace uh which made the squid furious and climb onto the ship and two sailors died in the squids the squid's arms and a third disappeared the squid body was said to be at least as thick as the smaller ship i mean so stupid but also died in the squid's arms sounds so peaceful that's it sounds like that's that's cthulhu and othello

right there yeah okay thank god written by oswald because he knows what love is i get it presence uh so anyway this is at least the first documentation whether or not it's legitimate but it was the first like written in and seen as fact where sailors are dying because of this creature sure so by the 1930s there are at least three other stories of squids attacking ships and sailors either being lost at sea afterwards or dying or whatever it is so it's now by the 1930s pretty much written in fact that the kraken is out to get you if you're out at sea and you never know where he might be in 2003 just to time travel uh the sydney morning herald this is a a quote from one of their stories about the kraken or a sea monster in general veteran yachtsman

oliver d kursausen kursausen uh said that his boat was hit by strange vibrations so he sent a crew member below deck to try to identify what was wrong suddenly he saw something moving and it was tentacles the squid was pulling really hard so we put put the boat. Oh, this is actually Oliver himself talking in the excerpt now. Suddenly, he saw something moving, and it was tentacles. And the squid was pulling really hard, so we put the boat about. And when we came to stop, the tentacles let go. We saw it behind the boat, and it was enormous. I have been sailing for 40 years, and I have never seen the like of this.

And then one crew member, this is still a quote of the news article. One crew member who spotted the creature through a porthole said that the tentacles were as thick as my arm wearing an oil skin. And I immediately thought of the damage it could do when we saw it behind the boat. It must have been seven to nine meters long. So speaking of creepy stories of squids, I just want to take this moment because we talked about it earlier because you mentioned a little bit how you knew that they can like fit through all these tiny little spaces super quickly. There was this super popular video that went around a while ago that most people probably saw and don't realize you did. But it was like this octopus trying to get off of one side of a boat and onto the other side so he could drop into the water. Oh, no, I haven't seen that it uh i've seen one where they like tested it at an aquarium but i've never seen

one no octopus gets through i don't know whole of the boat i don't know it's probably gonna be the first video that comes up yep first video that comes up uh it's in case you want to look it up it's called huge octopus escapes through smallest look it up. It's called Huge Octopus Escapes Through Smallest Hole. It's so freaky. I don't really want to look it up. I'm a little scared. Here, I'll send it to you. I'll send you the link.

Okay. Am I supposed to watch this now? Sure. Yeah. It's only. Oh, sorry. That was my ads. If you heard anything.

I'm also going to watch it for fun while you watch it. Okay. It's from the Dodo. Yeah. gonna watch it for fun while you watch it okay it's from the dodo yeah so it the whole video by the end it's completely on the other side of the boat oh my god i mean that thing is beyond creepy and doesn't it look like a little kraken this is terrifying look how big he is i know so so i mean this is just for our entertainment we don't have to keep this whole part in but like yeah and apparently they also change color so this is from the dodo and it says a 600 pound octopus can fit through a hole the size of a quarter yep that's a whole ass octopus 600 this thing looks like it could i mean i don't know how big

this one is but it's definitely bigger than a fucking quarter no it's slightly also he said it's changing colors too which look at it it's turning blue it's turning like different colors also he said it can fit through anything that its beak can fit through so that's interesting that's probably a little beak yeah that's probably like the hardest part on it um i'm just going to also read the top comment i need someone who believes in me the same way this dude believes in that octopus he's like cheering him on the whole time oh gross and listen nature's incredible look at that oh but it's so cool like what think that that evolved over all that time i know and then we eat it and shoot it humans suck humans suck that should be the title of

this episode so anyway so that's uh that's one of the more viral things that have come out recently of octopi or squids just because it was such a wild video and then also there is this um famous uh little creature named inky in uh new zealand who escaped from an aquarium and went down a drain in 2016 that's the one i remember that's some finding nemo shit right there that is because even the name inky sounds like a funny nemo character anyway so really quick before we go i just want to say there's one theory that the Kraken isn't a giant squid, but is a colossal octopus instead of a colossal squid,

which better fits the description of how people describe what the Kraken looks like. But like I said earlier, it's still probably the giant squid because it's more violent. There is another one that's even more violent called the Humboldt squid, but it's much smaller.

So it's probably not the Kraken. Although, fun fact, Humboldt squids are called red devils because they turn red when they're about to attack you. Oh, OK. And and then the giant squid, which is most likely or has become the lore that is the Kraken. The giant squid is usually 13 to 15 meters, which is about 43 to 50 feet. And some say it can reach up to 18 meters which is about 60 feet but that's only when it's like stretched out on land so that probably doesn't count um and the giant squid is still like this huge enigma we don't know anything about its social patterns its eating patterns its mating patterns fun facts social

life i was like well it's none of our business to be quite frank to you know what he feels like an introvert to me though so i feel like i can guess his social pattern yeah i get it dude but one thing we do know speaking of mating behaviors we do know that the male giant squid his penis is up to one meter long which is three feet lol uh and based on the beaks of the squid uh scientists say that giant squids can technically get up to 66 feet long and they weigh anywhere between 300 and 600 pounds holy so in theory if you were to see a kraken in in modern day if we were to experience this cryptid it could be guesstimated around 60 feet and probably 450 pounds um with a three foot long penis um so that's definitely that's releasing the

kraken if i've ever seen that um don't sit on that part maybe just be careful that might piss them off uh so now the general understanding is that it's also got hooked or suction cup tentacles has the potential to hide in the water by changing color it will suck you down in a water vortex and little evidence of a genuine kraken exists but we do have hope that it has once existed because cephalopods used to be much be much bigger back in the day cool and so i mentioned this earlier on but there were prehistoric squids that got up to 30 meters which is 100 feet and they used to um they used to eat this one type of maritime dinosaur that was basically the prehistoric version of dolphins it's actually called an owen sore we're trying to take the name

back take the name and we're revamping we're rebranding the name rebranding uh but so basically these prehistoric squids used to eat prehistoric dolphins no just to give you an idea of their size and these there is some criticism because a lot of those prehistoric squids don't have the same behaviors as cephalopods today but people could also just chalk that up to like evolution but the most recent information we have about kraken slash giant squid is in 2004 japanese researchers finally got the very first picture of the giants of a giant squid really and it does look very um krakenany no one had gotten one before 2004 apparently not wow that freaks me out a little bit because i here i mean it looks like it was meant for a horror movie in

terms like they couldn't have asked him to pose better here he is yes first picture of live giant squid oh my god i do a little zoomeroo oh god it is a horror movie very cthulhu crackany yeah he's like underwater too folks if you're trying to picture this he's like in the depths of the sea so this was the first picture this was in 2004 and then eight years later the exact same team of researchers got the very first video footage of a giant squid oh that would be interesting with all his little arms yeah and it was so it was 2 000 feet below the pacific ocean but they have 2 000 feet no wonder nobody's gotten photos i'm sending this to the group chat so even has to say can see it but i'm gonna say has to see it and the video uh so notable mentions of a giant squid slash Kraken slash sea monster is Moby Dick, Clash of the Titans. Although this movie, so Clash of the Titans is based on like, it makes you think that the Kraken is like a Greek myth, but it's not really based on Greek mythology.

It's also been featured in Pirates of the Caribbean. And you might have recently in the last couple years seen release the kraken as a hashtag on social media again this comes from the famous line and clash the titans but it now these days because trumpers have to ruin everything it uh refers to uh trump's uh old lawyer sydney powell who uh promised to promise to quote release the kraken aka release all of the information to prove uh voter fraud so and then from there q anon picked it up and a bunch of other like come on trumpy subgroups and basically now release the kraken is a hashtag meaning like you know release release real info tell us the truth so Give me the emails. What about the emails?

Yeah. So I'm going to end on one thing because everyone seems to love, well, most people seem to love our cryptid slam poetry. Some people were a little less enthused, but we loved it. Some people exactly hated it, but most people really, really loved it. Yeah, including me. There is a poem about this sea monster that comes from 1830,

and the English poet, his name was Tennyson, and this is his poem about, you know, not necessarily calling it Kraken, but whatever this Kraken lore is. Is it Alfred Lord Tennyson? Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. i just have english poet

tennyson 10th grade thanks miss rosero and this is from 1830 okay below the thunders of the upper deep far far beneath in the abysmal sea his ancient dreamless uninvaded sleep the kraken oh he did actually i actually didn't read this until i'm talking about it with you so he mentioned the kraken great you hadn't read it yet i wanted i wanted to live react with you in case it was really wild you are live reacting that's for sure his ancient dreamless uninvaded sleep the kraken sleepeth faintest sunsets flee sunlights flee about his shadowy sides above him swell huge sponges of millennial growth and height and far away into the sickly light from many a wondrous and secret cell unnumbered an enormous polypi window with giant arms the lumbering green there half he lain for ages and will lie

battening upon huge sea worms in his seat and his sleep until the latter flop until the latter fire shall heat the deep then once by man and angels to be seen and roaring he shall rise and on the surface die I know I didn't read that in any like poem like rhythm but I just kind of wanted to get through it quickly because I know I'm over time

I thought your poem rhythm was great it was the choppiest rhythm you've ever seen but then I guess choppy like the sea so it was the choppiest rhythm you've ever seen but then i guess choppy like the sea so if it's it was on brand so anyway that is the kraken that was beautiful uh wow what a what a glorious ending to that thank you i love that well there you have it unfortunately my story today does not feature a poem um i wish it did but uh maybe a song a lot of your serial killers like to leave songs and love notes uh we got some journal entries so we're getting there um this today emothy i'm gonna tell you the story of ted kaczynski aka no aka big ted i don't know unabomber oh okay nope sorry no nothing okay do you know okay so um is he the he's the guy it's the one with the shoe right uh no that's the shoe bomber yep okay

so no so no is the answer it's it's one of the things that like i i heard a million times but then eventually i was too scared to ever ask about it so i just never looked it up well i will tell you all about it so this week we're looking at the case of ted kaczynski ex full-time math professor part-time terrorist otherwise known as the unabomber so between 1978 and 1995 kaczynski was responsible for the creation and delivery of 16 bombs, many of which had the phrase FC written on them, which I will describe to you later what exactly that means. Three people were killed because of the 16 bombs and 23 others were severely injured. So, Theodore Ted Kaczynski was born May 22, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois, to Wanda and Theodore Sr., a sausage maker. Chicago classic.

They said that as a young child, having suffered from severe hives that put him in the hospital, he experienced really extensive isolation where he – it was really interesting. So I watched this miniseries on Netflix. I'm always watching a mini series on netflix but this one is called unabomber in his own words and it features like one of the only in-depth interviews with him so it's really cool um and it's pretty well done it's four parts i've had a lot of weird dreams ever since i binged it so just be careful maybe do some light reading between or some parks and rec or something but take a break take a breather yeah yeah uh but so they described

it where he his parents knew something was wrong he had all these rashes so they brought him to the hospital but the policy was that they could only see him two days a week and he was like two or three like he was really little so he only saw his parents like two days a week for two hours and they said that this created this like horrible social isolation i mean he was just alone in the hospital room as a little baby sure um and so some people believe that's where his kind of psychotic tendencies like psychosis kind of creeped in or i'm sorry not psychosis psychopathy um and perhaps that's where it kind of was fostered because he didn't have a connection to his parents for that very formative period of time. So anyway, his parents described that after that hospital visit, he showed little emotion for months.

And before that, he was a very bubbly and fun, happy child. And he just completely did a 180. Just completely detached from them probably yeah like totally detached not emotional um so really sad and his parents believe that this time in isolation manifested itself in ted showing the biggest sympathy for animals who were in cages that was like his his biggest deepest uh you know emotive response was to animals in cages which oh okay interesting it's better than nothing i wonder if i mean this is such a wild thought like i there's no i have but i wonder if it's like he saw himself in caged animals yes he was alone and by himself and in isolation totally

and i think um the fact that he hadn't had human connection for so long you know it makes sense that he would relate to animals right um and so yeah no i think that makes total sense uh he didn't have any friends at least human ones uh and then in 1952 three years after ted's younger brother david was born who was also featured extensively in the miniseries and is like a very interesting guy like i i could listen to talk about this for days it's just his side of the story is fascinating um so david was born and the family moved to evergreen park illinois and ted attended high school there and in junior high he scored a 167 on his iq test and he skipped which is genius level and he skipped from fifth into

seventh grade and yeah so he's jumping ahead and remember he already doesn't have that many friends so he's kind of already isolated and now he's joining older kids and he immersed himself in a variety of after-school activities including math biology coin and german club clubs those are all different oh german coin it's not german coin club or it's like the oxford comma yeah that's right yeah we got to put an ox actually let me add an oxford comma because what a club that would have been that you know what that's a very good point uh oxford comma is in okay cool so and he also played the trombone in the marching band. Wow.

So busy guy. Busy beaver. Very smart. And he did find some friends who also loved science and math. And they called themselves the Briefcase Boys because they all had little briefcases. I love that. I know. Isn't that cute?

That's such a fun little game. That's a fun little name. I know. And I bet, I feel like kids would be bullied for that back in the day i don't know if they would be now i like to think that maybe we're all a little more open-minded but it's just such a sweet i just it's so sweet i love it yeah i wonder if it's like the world has changed or maybe we've just grown up and like have different like values on like what we think are cool but i would be so jealous of the brief me too i'd be like mom buy me a freaking forget about this lunchbox i want a briefcase

oh i remember the day i got my spongebob lunchbox i thought it would make me cool it didn't but i made me cool to myself so i had a i she definitely listens to this show so sorry in advance in advanced mac but or no mayor uh they're quadruplets and i i mixed one up by accident but how dare you first first grade i had the coolest marvin the martian lunchbox and it was mac and she was standing behind me and just i was like walking with it in in hand and you know how when you're walking your arm arm goes up front, one goes behind you? My arm was behind at the same moment that she had to throw up. And my entire arm and lunchbox just got covered in her throw up. And I could never use that lunchbox again.

I was not expecting that. And she was my best friend at first grade. So I wasn't mad at her. But I was like, motherfucker. This was the coolest lunchbox I'll ever see. Of all days see of all days and of all items it was a brand new one too i had just bought it it was so cool anyway that sorry mac well my spongebob lunchbox occurred in eighth grade which means i was very uncool

but that's okay uh anyway no briefcases i had no briefcase um so according to the washington post when ted turned 12 he and a junior high classmate named Dale Eichelman occasionally played with homemade explosives. And Eichelman later remembered, we would go out to an open field. And I remember Ted had the know-how of putting together things like batteries, wire leads, potassium, nitrate, or whatever, and creating explosions. Fores foreshadowing yeah sounds like it ted excelled at school he was even too advanced for his school's advanced math class which resulted in him skipping 11th grade so now by attending summer school he graduated high school at age 15 i was trying to do the math yeah thank you Thank you for that. You're welcome. 15.

We're not in the advanced math class, so I had to write it down for us. But 15 is when he graduated. And because he was nominated as a national merit finalist, me too, BTW. Fun fact about me. Yeah. Look at you go. Guess what? They forgot to put me on the list um

well and so technically uh there's no proof there is because i was in the local newspaper i was in the photo it's really sad i was in the photo holding the thing and they like didn't put my name in and then we asked them about it and they were like oh we forgot and i was like that's not very nice but anyway classic classic okay so he this part is not like me he was accepted to harvard at age 16 uh so that's me same that's more like your speed i'm more like the one throwing up in the background on your arm so he went to harvard at age 16 he went to college before getting his driver's license like that's how freaking uh mad genius this kid was which like now knowing like what's i mean i don't know the details but knowing like the general idea of what's gonna come it's like what a waste of

potential it's very sad it is it is and it's just fascinating how things kind of morph. So when he was at Harvard, understandably, he was sort of a recluse. I mean, he's 16 and all his classmates are in college age. So and at that point in time or at that point in your life, a couple of years makes a big difference in developmentally. So he would get back to his dorms after a day of classes slam the door and kind of just be alone he always ate alone um apparently his room was always such a mess that smelled so bad that students had to ask staff to have the

room cleaned like that's how gross oh my god which is we had that and we had that with one of my roommates in college the whole place smelled like literal garbage and it was because she was on by the way fun fact i still to this day have no idea who she was i don't know i know her name was ashley never saw her face once she but uh we had like basically apartment dorms and uh she had her own room so we never saw her and her room was the one closest to the front door so as soon as she came into the apartment she was like hidden in her room yeah i literally never once in my life saw her oh no and uh but the room smelled so bad and apparently it was because she was on the basketball team and she would just leave food in there and then she they would be like traveling for weeks and we'd be like i'd be like girl get it together so anyway can you imagine coming home like oh i'm

gonna relax in my bed oh i left a burrito in my bed oh shit and the entire apartment would just reek so we had to like we had to have people come in and unlock the door for us so we could take wow yeah okay that's less sad than i thought i thought it was gonna be like she had you know mental health issues and wasn't leaving the room but it was like she was leaving the room for too long she never she never threw out her garbage like we went in there and she must have had something that where she was weird about her garbage because the garbage bags she wouldn't just throw them away she would like collect them and leave them in her room so it was just weeks old garbage i've done that but it's because i'm lazy but she i don't know what her situation

was but just smells so that's disgusting yeah uh so that is apparently what happened here except the difference is he was in his room not playing basketball i presume right maybe chess but maybe sudoku i'm not sure but not basketball so a weird fact fun fact about ted's time at harvard uh this comes into play later too in his sophomore year ted participated in a three-year 200-hour study led by harvard psychologist henry murray who ended up becoming like a big name in psychology which was later theorized to be a strand of the cia's research into mind control and interrogation techniques and according to the atlantic monthly as strand of the CIA's research into mind control and interrogation techniques. And according to the Atlantic Monthly, as part of the study, participants were told

they would debate personal philosophy with a fellow student and were asked to write essays detailing their personal beliefs and aspirations. The essays were then turned over to an anonymous individual who would confront and belittle the subject in what Murray called called murray the the professor himself called vehement sweeping and personally abusive attacks using the content of the essays as ammunition wow so tell us all your like inner private opinions and vulnerabilities and we'll just completely destroy you with them it completely and there was feels very it feels like one of those tactics and cult behavior yes it like break you down exactly and that's a really good point because uh i mean i'll get into a little bit later but um essentially well actually

i'll just get into now skip down a little bit but so basically these participants were then monitored as this like humiliating abuse was just hurled at them and again like keep in mind he's 16 he's not even an adult yeah you know what i mean kid yeah it makes it so much worse this is prime time to always be embarrassed yes like you're already like in the most vulnerable you're a teenager you're like alone you know in a new place so it's just really shitty i mean they basically said like today this would never ever ever fly like something like this could never pass any sort of right you know especially a minor especially a minor exactly it's just it would never happen and by the way the participants had no idea that was the study of course like they just oh no yeah they just thought it was like oh i'm why don't you

write down what you think and feel and then they just had some guy be like i've looked at this and and they played clips of it in the uh mini series and uh basically it was like you could just hear this guy like berating and belittling him and then he would be like oh okay uh all right like you just like what do you even say and when a full-grown man is just like verbally assaulting you basically i mean i i would shut down i would just be like okay i would cry for sure like i'm crying just thinking about it um so it's very upsetting the psych professor i guess they talked about this was hoping to learn more about the effect of stress on people and he was very involved in developing interrogation techniques um And so there's a thing in the CIA called enhanced interrogation, which is interrogation. But on top of that, they added these kind of mind control techniques like drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation or isolation, good cop, bad cop.

So basically any sort of psychological torment added into interrogation would be called enhanced with a nice name called enhanced interrogation. Fun. Yeah, it's really lovely. It's basically full on verbal assault. And nowadays, obviously completely unethical. And Ted didn't know there was a script. He didn't know that this other person was doing this as part of the study. He just thought this is how some person just came in here and just started screaming at him. Yeah. And he basically thought, like, I didn't of the study he just thought this is how some he was some person just came in

here and just started screaming at him yeah and he basically thought like i didn't do the study right like i just must have done something completely wrong um and that definitely comes into play in my opinion later on when you hear like what his beliefs and aspirations were oh no i know it's it's just like really dark when you're like I just want to go make people feel happy and then they were like you fucking dumbass. Not quite. Okay because that would have been really heartbreaking. But it's it's sort of it's like well you decide because I don't know how to frame it but. Okay.

So there was a former CIA officer that was actually interviewed in the docuseries who was involved with enhanced interrogation of a high ranking member of Al Qaeda. And he was interviewed and he clarified that it is fully he's like it's torture. Like we call it enhanced interrogation, but I was involved with it and it's torture. And he said the tactics the CIA used in these instances were a direct result of what this professor Henry Murray had developed throughout his study so whoa like they took these exact methods that you know he was a part of that Ted was a part of and turned those into interrogation methods and he said he said to specify they weren't inspired by the studies they were directly derived from his work so it wasn't even like a connection it was

like no this is exactly how we developed our process oh my god so really dark um the process being that you can break someone down alter their minds and they would be psychologically broken down and they they called it in the show dislocated to then be reformed to a pliable or cooperative source yeah icky it does sound culty and torture i mean it's psychological torture and again he was a child so it's like wow really unethical i mean i couldn't listen i actually had to skip forward because i was getting like so upset i was like i can't listen to this like cruel verbal abuse it's just too much so i couldn't listen to it but oh and by. It's just too much. So I couldn't listen to it. But oh, and by the way, these records are all sealed.

Like they have like little clips of it, but it's fully sealed. So nobody can people who are studying him can't go back and listen to all of it to make sure like, hey, I wonder if this had any connection. So that's all we know. We don't know that like full details, but it is interesting that it's like fully sealed and we can't actually access it. Yeah, it says something, doesn't it? It does. And like that's a side note, but, you know, I think it kind of comes into play. So anyway, after his time at Harvard, Ted completed a Ph.D. in mathematics in 1967 at the University of Michigan, where his advisor called his dissertation the best I have ever directed.

This kid's a genius. Wow. Yeah, his PhD, in fact, or his dissertation was so highbrow that Maxwell Reed, a member of his dissertation committee said, I would guess that maybe 10 or 12 men in the country understood or appreciated it, which is like, oh, okay. Men. And let me guess, you're one of the 10 yeah of course you are yeah yeah you're one of the special dozen can you remind me what the topic was it was uh just in mathematics just mathematics okay uh i'm sure that it's listed somewhere i'm sure it'll mean nothing to me but mathematics is the overarching umbrella he's a math guy uh yeah we didn't know how to add up to 15 so i don't know if we'll get it but um so this phd led him to gain his assistant professorship at berkeley by the age of 25 so he

literally had a doctorate by age 25 was a professor he was the youngest professor in the history of the university of california and a mathematics professor like you know not that not that certain subjects being a professor is easier harder but it's like such a very specific tract i feel like to become a mathematics professor i remember in psychology there was uh in in because psychology is part of stem but they have like their own list of like like who makes fun of who like like the chemists make fun of the mathematics sure of the whatever and all the way down at the bottom it's like the biologists make fun of the psychologists who make

fun of the sociologists who like i remember being like at the bottom level of like just getting roasted all the time what about the german mate no i'm just kidding uh journalists yeah womp womp um i wasn't even on the list okay so how does that feel no it was like it was specifically for like the like certain science would laugh at other science would laugh at it's funny what was at the top of the food chain uh it was physics or chemistry sure that makes sense chemistry makes sense the top three were physics chemistry and math yeah makes sense so man you gotta duke it out up there i guess geez i know okay so basically 10 or 12 men in the country including this lovely man named maxwell apparently understood this mathematic mathematical concept

that ted had talked about but now he was the youngest professor in the history of university of california and it was all going so well seemingly but then without explanation on June 30th of 1969 he just resigned with a two-line note to his department chairman basically saying I'm out not really any more detailed than that and according to the crime museum's website teaching proved to be too much of a task for his awkward and reserved social nature so he was able to succeed academically but when it came to kind of the social aspect of being a professor and having students it was just too much for him um and as someone who did briefly teach a class

in grad school of a bunch of freshmen it is my worst nightmare and i never want to do it again i still have never learned anything about that from you. It's like it was it was scary. It was scary as shit. I it was scary. They called me professor and I was like, don't call me. I'm not a professor. Trust me.

I'm the farthest thing. But I had to pretend to be like really authoritative because they're a bunch of 18 year olds. I had, I think, 22 kids in my class. I mean, anyway, it was hell, but whatever. OK, we're going to have to talk about that eventually. One of them reached out to me on Twitter and I was like, kids in my class. I mean, anyway, it was hell, but whatever. Okay. We're going to have to talk about that eventually. One of them reached out to me on Twitter and I was like, oh my God, hi. Did they listen to the show or something? Yeah, they listened to the show.

This was like two years ago. They were like, Professor Sheaffer. He was like, do you remember me? I was like, yeah, you were actually a really good writer. Anyway, it was very cute. But sorry, side note. But so I get it. Ted teaching scary stuff.

So after resigning from Berkeley, he moved back in with his parents in Lombard, Illinois. And then in 1971, he decided to move to Montana into a very remote cabin in the middle of nowhere, basically. Wow. So Lincoln, Montana, his cabin contained a bed, two chairs, storage trunksunks a gas stove and loads of books wow and his reasoning was that he wanted to be living a simpler life devoid of money electricity or running water he wanted to go like back to nature back to the basics um and his only source of income would be odd jobs and whatever his family could send him to help him out wow can you imagine being his parents though and being like wow har, Harvard genius, Harvard PhD math genius. And he just wants to go like, I can imagine like

the Jewish mother in me is like screaming. I totally respect his opinion, but I can also just hear the criticism. It's sort of like, wait, you're asking me for 20 bucks. You just got your PhD and had the youngest professor in history and you need 20 bucks to buy like gas for your gasoline stove yeah it's it's pretty wild so he just like totally flipped went out into nature uh it was like this is my life now and according to the wash oh sorry his dream was to be completely self-sufficient and live autonomously in the most natural conditions without any help basically off the grid and according to the washington post in their article called the profile of a loner

for food he hunted squirrels rabbits and porcupines he would skin them and barbecue them in a fire pit outside his cabin so cute nope he's that neighbor where i'm gonna just the like long way around he's my fucking father. You got the Jewish mother, the father in the woods. It's quite a tale you're spinning here. Look, it's clear I was raised by the Jewish mother and not the woodland creature. The skinning porcupines one. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little So as the Montana newsmakers would later report, Kaczynski spent most of his time alone riding an old bike into Lincoln every few weeks to visit the library and supplement the food he grew. And according to the Crime Museum, again, it was all going well until over the years he began to notice the land around him increasingly becoming sort of developed and being destroyed by industrial growth. And he did not like this he developed a hatred of all things industrial gentrified and capitalist in an interview with the new york times after his arrest he discussed nature being destroyed all around him he described a rolling country not flat and when you get get to the edge of it you find these ravines that cut very steeply into cliff-like drop-offs and there was even a waterfall there it was about a two days hike from my cabin that was the best spot until one day i went back to

the plateau and when i got there i found they had put a road right through the middle of it you just can't imagine how upset i was it was from that point on that i decided that rather than trying to acquire further wilderness skills i would work on getting back at the system. Revenge. Wow. That was a turning point. And so far, it sounds lovely. I know, like, I'm totally fine with, like, him being like, I, you know, want to take a stand against, you know, hurting our environment. I get that. Yes.

But it's about to very quickly go downhill. Yes. And there's definitely a line where you think yeah because there's a part where you're like i i get it you're against industrialism gentrification capitalism like i'm fully i get it i'm on board and then but there in my opinion at least there should be a line like there needs to i think there should be a line um as far as injuring other people goes uh right to make your point that part yeah exactly exactly so yeah yeah i'm with you because so far where i am on the storyline i'm like okay yeah get back at

the system that's what we all want but right i keep forgetting you don't have the the the i know the word bomb is in his name let's put it that way okay fair okay fair so this is my next bullet revenge for ted took the form of explosives okay here we go that which by the way bad for the environment yeah well yeah i guess i mean well depending on how big this explosion is about to be well i mean they're like pipe bombs and stuff i don't think it's like he's not bombing like you know canyons got it okay uh so anyway according to the netflix mini series that i mentioned earlier uh he got tips on how to make bombs from chemistry textbooks and he got whatever pieces he needed by stealing from neighbors cars like junk yards junk cars that were kind of laying

out in people's yards he would just kind of creep around and take stuff at will he began making handcrafted bombs from wooden and metal parts by melting metal scraps and his first mail bomb was so he basically was a mail bomber he sent his bombs by mail oh okay wow that fucking sucks i mean i knew it wasn't gonna be good but now that i have the ref they're like that sucks did you ever watch that mormon docuseries on netflix that came out recently oh okay that was also about mail bombing like package but it's really freaky the whole concept of anyway okay so no no you're good uh sorry i'm derailing so his first mail bomb was directed to a professor of materials engineering at northwestern University named Buckley Crist in May of 1978.

So Ted had moved back to Illinois to live with his parents and work with his father and brother at a foam rubber factory called Cushion Pack. Okay. And he had left the bomb. So this is kind of interesting. So he'd left the bomb in the University of Illinois car park with Chris's return address on it. So the package was returned to Chris, who, when receiving it, was like, I didn't send this package. And so some campus security came to check it out and a campus security officer opened it and it exploded. Wow.

That's awful. Yeah. Unfortunately, he survived um but so this is where it's kind of interesting they kind of theorize this on the show that it was a mail bomb with an address on it and a return address on it and it went back to the return address and they were thinking like why didn't it get mailed and what they think happened is that he went to the mailbox with it realized it didn't fit in the mailbox and so he just left it laying in the parking lot and they were like oh this package needs to be returned to sender so thank god so they think it was met for whoever was on i don't know who it was but they think it was met for whoever was on the address label he couldn't get in the mail slot but i mean i guess that's good that if he didn't

yeah because who knows who would have you know maybe it would have gone differently and the person would have died if it got mailed exactly so that's why they think happened because the the rest were mailed and this was his first one so they think like maybe he made it didn't even think about the dimensions it didn't fit in the mailbox. So he just left it there, hoping it would get sent back to the person on the return address. And it did. And he had a history or not history, but he had a habit of putting different people's return addresses on the labels to like throw people off, to like target people.

You know, this was a smart guy. He was like fucking around most of the time. So anyway, this campus security officer opens a package it explodes fortunately it was just minor injuries that he was impacted with uh and his first attack obviously was not as successful as he had hoped but meanwhile his working alongside his family was also not successful because in August of 1978, his brother fired him from the Cushion Pack factory. Uh-oh. Let me tell you why. Was he stealing materials or something? No, but that's a good guess. You would think like a rubber company. You would. I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah. No, it wasn't even that, which actually is a really good guess. But Ted and one

of his supervisors had gone on a few dates and she had given him his first ever kiss and he was very happy very excited uh he was 36 at this point his brother remembers him running into his room and telling like announcing it excitedly and fbi agent kathy puckett later wrote he writes about how she kissed him and he describes it like a martian meeting an earthling he said she was doing something with her tongue that he couldn't quite understand. So like he is fully kind of out of his element here. Clearly, it's a new territory. Never been kissed.

It's Martian territory. He doesn't have a Harvard degree on this one. Oh, right. Harvard could only get you so far. See? See? See? Not all of us are Harvard grads. Okay.

Anyway. But then after a few dates, she told him she wasn't interested in continuing their relationship. And Ted didn't like that. So he started writing what his brother David called these very unflattering,

ugly sort of limericks about her and he would like post them all over the work site oh so it was like these gross demeaning misogynistic like limericks that he would write and he just plastered them everywhere about her and obviously very unprofessional obviously misogynistic so david was like i'm giving you an ultimatum you either stop harassing this woman or you have you're gonna be fired so ted responded by posting another limerick the following day and his brother was like listen i gotta fire you and he was like i was in a corner like he was harassing his supervisor he's my brother but like you know yeah he wasn't listening and he was harassing this woman so he fired him and once he had been fired ted got into the woman's car and waited for her

there and he would later reveal that he had thoughts of waiting for her to arrive and mutilating her but while he was in the car he decided against it got out of the car and went home well good can you imagine finding out later like oh all day he was hiding in the car he decided against it got out of the car and went home well good can you imagine finding out later like oh all day he was hiding in your car someone was in your fucking car and going to mutilate you like contemplating it the entire time while you were inside i mean really terrifying wow that's awful so this just gives you a little glimpse into his derogatory outlook on women. According to psychologist Sarah Reed, because of his lack of experience with them, he felt extreme amounts of rage, shame and humiliation towards women. According to his neighbor, Wendy Gehring, in the Netflix documentary, she said, in my opinion, he hated women.

He had no use for us, is like okay chilling as fuck that is um sorry i just started thinking i started thinking of this tiktok where they they did they did studies apparently on men watching women in certain outfits and like it already starts at a baseline of men seeing women as objects and then sorry it sorry, it just got, I was thinking, like, oh, wow, like, he really just sees them as objects and then it's viral. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, he doesn't even see them as objects because he doesn't even have a use for them because he doesn't even know how to kiss them. Yeah, they don't even, they don't even offer a function.

Exactly. They don't even register as, like, a sex object. just has zero use for them which is just like weirdly creepy because it's like it's not even like the gross misogynistic thing of like i view you as an object i want to use it's just like you literally don't matter to me nothing nothing exactly wow so anyway the attacks continued while in illinois in may of 79 ted left a bomb hidden in a philly's brand cigar box on a table in the technical building on the Northwestern University campus. The device was left untouched until mid-afternoon when a grad student in the civil engineering department saw the box and thought it was just like leftover equipment from the engineering lab. Opened it and it exploded and caused him cuts and burns. No serious injuries thank god so about six

months later in november of 1979 ted managed to sneak a bomb onto american airlines flight 444 from chicago to washington dc not in his shoe right that was another guy but there's apparently plenty of guys who want to bomb airplanes i guess uh jesus like why i don't i never like well i don't understand bombing anyone but especially like why does everyone pick a fucking plane i think it's just so blatantly destructive and dramatic and yeah i mean you have people trapped you know exactly the number of people what a what a full circle then because he used to only love caged animals and then he's like causing people to be a caged animal yes i think um if it were a plane full of dogs maybe they wouldn't have he wouldn't touch it he wouldn't touch it um i'd love a plane

full of dogs how fun would that be okay i love like being on the ground with a bunch of dogs actually yeah maybe not a plane maybe the plane has landed and we're all just like on air force one like having maybe we're at a plane party and everyone's chewing on like plain stuffed animals yeah yeah yeah okay so anyway he snuck a bomb on and thank fuck due to a fault in the mechanism it didn't properly explode and only caused a small fire on the plane however if ted's plan had worked successfully according to time a boeing 747 passenger jet might have just fallen out of the sky that day so it had the potential to take down an entire boeing 747 and thankfully he made

a mistake and it just caused a fire that everyone survived so he's getting pissed by the way like he is watching this and going like i keep fucking up this is not my intended plan yeah thankfully but he is not happy um then in 1980 he sends his next bomb to the president of united airlines percy wood and it injured him didn't kill him but then in october of 81 a package was discovered in a university of utah hallway diffused by a bomb squad he's just getting fucking foiled left and right and this doesn't feel anymore like it's a get like it's for the sake of environmentalism like is there a reason for these yeah what connection does it have they're all people who he thinks are furthering industrialism okay science that is gonna turn us

away from nature so it's not really like anything direct he's just picking people who are like a part of the system yes exactly and his view was it's more destructive to attack like the president of like exxon mobil i mean that's just an example than it is to i don't know that was like his his mo mo or his uh belief was that attacking like the person at the head of it would send a stronger message i guess than anything else mean, not really if it's not working, but he's trying. Just keep causing little fires everywhere. Little fires. That's a book.

Little fires everywhere. Anyway, the following May, a bomb was sent to Vanderbilt University professor Patrick C. Fisher. The package had originally been mailed to Penn State, where it was thought that Fisher was still teaching. But when they got it, they were like, oh, no, he's actually moved to vanderbilt so they forwarded the package to vanderbilt oh my god oh my god and so it turned out he turned out he was away in puerto rico and unfortunately his secretary janet smith opened the bomb and um although it didn't kill her she was like scarred for the rest of her life on her arms and face from the explosion. And the package had been marked with the return address of a man named Leroy Berenson, an electrical engineering professor at Brigham Young University.

But of course, they interviewed him or interviewed him. And he was like, I did not send that. Like, I have no idea what this is. But like Ted was just fucking around and putting like one professor on the return address and one on the to just screw with the system. Jeez. Okay. So he would write another person's or even sometimes just like a fake return address on the package. And it was just like a running element to throw people off.

So that was what they thought happened with that first. This is when they were like, okay, maybe that first package he left in a car park was meant to go in the mail but he fucked up and that's why it got returned to the wrong guy so so is this how when all of these the ones you've listed so far are happening did they they didn't know it was him they were just trying to they were just trying to find yeah yeah they were still in the middle of investigating. They were like, somebody is terrorizing these universities and. Got it. Companies. Exactly.

So they did not know who it was. So Kaczynski's next two attacks span the next three years, and they were both targeted at his alma mater. So he had gone to UC Berkeley. He had gone to UC Berkeley, and on July 2nd of 1982, engineering professor Diogenes J. Angelakos, sounds very Greek, mistook a bomb for a discarded piece of equipment on the floor, and when he lifted the object's handle, it exploded and caused serious injuries to his hand, arm, and face. And then on May 15th of 85, Berkeley grad student and Air Force captain

John Hauser opened a three-ring binder that he had left laying around. And it turned out to be a bomb. Oh, my God. Yeah. So he's not even a box anymore. He's like getting like creative. Yeah. It was like a binder.

And when you opened it, it would explode. And it actually blew off four of his fingers and he lost vision in one eye and he talks about it in the miniseries and he said he was wearing his air force ring and it embedded itself into the wall with his fingers whoa yeah oh my god and that's how and he he described it to the trauma of it and saying like it was slow motion and he just remembers like he described it to the trauma of it and saying like it was slow motion. And he just remembers like he said it was like the Matrix when he's kind of going through the bullets or whatever. He's like it was like that like slow motion. His fingers just kind of blew off his own hand. And oh my God, he lost his vision in one eye.

So it's getting worse. Thankfully, nobody has died yet, but it's getting worse. It's getting worse. Thankfully, nobody has died yet, but it's getting worse. The year of 85, Ted made and sent a total of four bombs, which was, I think, the most in like that brief of a time span. So on June 13th of 85, a brown addressless paper package arrived at the fabrication division of Boeing, like the airplane manufacturer in auburn washington and thankfully employees were able to partially open it see it was a bomb and call the bomb squad who were able to diffuse it but i mean think about it he put it in a dressless paper package to yeah an airline like thank god it was like something really like obviously yeah so people i mean like had he just done it

in a box like someone would have died yeah like a three ring binder just like toss it on the floor exactly so thankfully they were able to kind of just peek at it see that if they opened it would explode to call the bomb squad who diffused it then on november 15th of 85 university of michigan psychology professor which is where he went to get his PhD, James McConnell received a package from a professor at University of Utah named Ralph Kloppenberg. And on the outside of the package, Kloppenberg had written a message to McConnell saying that there was a manuscript inside that he wanted his notes on. So the professor gets a package from this other professor being like hey here's a

manuscript like could you take a look at it so of course it's like okay oh okay like one academic sending another academic sure his work like he's just fucking around with these people and so when opened by the assistant of course which i feel like he's also not thinking through like yeah this is a random person who just got like a nine to five job. Yeah, they're not. And also like these are high ranking people a lot of the time who have assistants to open their mail or, you know, especially if they're out of town on vacation. So the assistant opened it and it exploded and injured his arm and he lost part of his hearing and although at this point now ted has been sending bombs since 1978 it wasn't until

december of 85 that ted murdered his first victim and in his words succeeded with his bomb yeah and how long has he been doing this now so 78 is the first balmy scent and now it's 1985 so seven years took him that fucking long yeah i'm shocked i mean i'm glad that people weren't dying before that but like i you would think that he would have done it faster i know with that with that iq man you know yeah so sacramento-based computer store owner, 38-year-old Hugh Scrutton, he just owned a computer store, this guy. It's not even like he, you know, was running some oil rig. It's starting to feel like the movie Saw, like the Saw franchise, because originally the killer was going after people who, like, quote, deserved to die. And then by the end of the franchise it was just

random fucking killing like it was just like sure like it's really sloppy i definitely never saw this on movies as you can probably guess but i think i know what you're saying and it's almost like an excuse to harm people and then it gets out of hand like yeah like oh no they deserve it and then it's like out it gets out of Yeah, it's almost the same way. And it's sort of like he owns a computer store. He's not like Steve Jobs. You know, he's not creating the next wave in technology. So it's just a little it's just sad.

So anyway, this guy runs a computer store, 38 years old. He sees this package left in the parking lot outside his store. He opens it and the package is filled with nails and it explodes and kills him. And one of the metal plugs on the bomb with the letters FC engraved into it pierces his heart. So he is killed by this bomb. Oh, my God. oh my god and it seems that ted then went on a break because it wasn't until two years later that another computer store was attacked in 87 against a man named gary wright who's the vice president of a computer repair company in salt lake city and he was seriously injured by a package

left in the parking lot um he survived but the explosion severed nerves in his arm and 200 pieces of shrapnel exploded into his body holy shit yeah so oh my god extremely violent and gruesome um and he was actually driving to utah at this point which they didn't know that he was driving to utah to or taking the bus to utah to mail these packages and sort of like whoa to not be in his get caught exactly to not be in his home base so he'd be in salt lake and that's when he would like leave them at in parking lots that kind of thing or he would mail them directly from utah got it so this time however like i said he was in salt lake and he was not as dexterous at escaping because a secretary had observed a man with a mustache wearing a sweatshirt leaving a package in the car park and she hadn't really thought much

of it of course until this happened and then she was like wait i saw a sketchy dude out there so the employee was interviewed by police and her descriptions would help create the famous sketch of the unabomber which would be used in the investigation um have you seen this picture i'll send it to you no this is like the famous unabomber maybe i have seen it i just you might have um so it's him wearing like aviators and a hoodie oh yes yes i've seen this picture yeah so it's it's a pretty well-known photo uh not photo but drawing i guess um and so that's kind of the description she gave to police and that's what started to spread uh around town around um the news and that kind of thing they were starting to finally put more details to who this mysterious bomber was right

right right so when the sketch was released ted kind of stepped back into the shadows and he didn't show up again until six years later so there was almost a lull where people were like okay maybe it's over which is almost even scarier because you don't know if it's over because they haven't caught him but then also because there was like that weird two-year gap yeah and and there was like seven years or eight years before he where it it didn't even... Nothing, like no one was dying. Like, so you just, for all you know, like he just was taking a hiatus and he'll be back. Yeah. Yeah. And some people thought, well, maybe he was arrested for some other charge,

which sometimes happens to killers and he's in jail. But like, nope, he was just hiding out in his cabin. And it's not totally clear what he was up to. But we do know that in 1988 and 1991 he had written a letter to mental health professionals requesting psychiatric counseling wow which is interesting but then he's not coming i know and then but then he went and like freaked out and was like just spewed hatred at the psychiatrist and at one point he requested a sex change but it wasn't because of gender dysphoria it was they described the psychiatrist psychologist described it in the episode and she

was like it's an extremely rare thing where he didn't relate to being a woman but he thought i couldn't full i'll be honest with you i couldn't fully understand it but he requested one and then they set up a meeting to like meet with him and he was like i'd rather die and they were like okay well you said this meeting i don't know like you wanted like gender reassignment surgery and you're now getting and now you're like i would literally rather do anything else then why did you come to this meeting exactly he like wrote like i would like a sex change obviously that's the wording he used and they were like well okay you have to come in and have psychiatric evaluation. Like, we'll talk to you.

And then he went into the meeting and was like, I'd rather die. He just fucking, like, just flipped the switch. Like, just like. Yes. At that point, why wouldn't you just call and say, hey, I'm not coming. I changed my mind. You'd think so. You'd think so.

But so he was clearly going through some things and he had a lot of anger and he he wrote at one point that he was having dreams where he was talking to a psychiatrist and they would be trying to help him and he would become so angry that he would kill the psychiatrist and then he would be happy and relieved so those are his dreams and i don't know why that shocked me i know it shouldn't have it's just odd because on the one hand he's like i'm requesting help psychiatric help and then on the other hand he's like but i'm also dreaming of the many ways i could murder you it's right still haven't mutilated a woman yet yeah it's just bizarre the the goings on in his head at this point

and um it's so six years here where he's going to have gender-reduced semi-surgery not going to have it then hating women then hating psychiatrists then wanting to talk to psychiatrists it's all very confusing anyway so uh we don't know what he was up to uh but his second letter was sent after his father theodore senior who had recently been diagnosed with lung cancer had died by suicide in their family home in chicago and his wife and son were in the other room yeah oh my god so that really triggered a lot of emotional and psychiatric distress obviously and that was part of the kind of that was part of the this all this whirlwind i just described of seeking help and then rejecting help and then

feeling violent and it that was all mixed in in any case so after his hiatus ted traveled to sacramento where he mailed two bombs so it's been six years he's gotten over it i guess uh and now he's back in it he's back on top he mails two bombs one is addressed to dr charles epstein who's a geneticist at the university of california and one to david galanter a computer science professor at yale and fun fact the name galanta in german means the learned one so it's almost like he was meant to be a professor that actually is really cool that's the name that's the nicest thing you've said all day i know right just a little fun fact okay so on june 22nd of 93 epstein's package arrives and his daughter brings it in from the mailbox I mean

it's all just so harrowing to think about so his daughter brings it in from the mailbox and leaves it on the kitchen counter for him when he opens it the bomb explodes he breaks his arm he severs several of his fingers and this is another example of so this man's a geneticist and he's been working on uh developing medical care for people with down syndrome and it's like this is the person that you think is destroying the world you know what i mean it's like that's your target yeah it just starts to not really make total sense it makes no sense anymore yeah it's almost like he just picks people that he feels like or doesn't like or who knows. But truly.

So this man was like that was his research and his life's work. And thankfully, again, he wasn't killed, but he was severely injured. I'm sure his whole family, especially his daughter, who just brought it into the kitchen, was horrified, traumatized. So a day later, the other package arrives for the learned one dr galant i don't know who's it dr galanter which one learned one we'll go with that big p uh and so when he opens it he lost sight in one eye and hearing in one ear but survived um and then shortly after the bombing the switchboard at the veterans affairs medical center received a call saying you are next so now he's like telling people now he's being a

huge serial killer creep type behavior he calls the switchboard and says you are next so in july of 1993 the fbi had had enough and they're like we gotta put together a task force you know how the fbi lives a task force so i have a good task force love it they put something called together called a unabom unabom unabom task force consisting of 125 fbi bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms and u.s. Postal Inspection Service agents in San Francisco to find this bomber once and for all. Wow. And what year is this?

This is 1993. So it's been going on since 78. Jesus Christ. Yeah. And it's all over the place. I think about it's like once it's an airplane and then it's Vanderbilt University and then it's forever. They must have been thinking they were different people. yeah how could you even relate them and then uh oh the way

the way they did though was he would put fc on all of right right but i'll get to that but that is one of the ways that they were like okay this clearly is the same guy but it's very confusing like sometimes it's a computer store parking lot and then it's like the head of some gas company like it's it's all over the place so the name unabomber interestingly enough i'm going to tell you what it comes from they called him that because the bombs were typically sent to universities and airlines so they just said una i never knew that i thought it was like una like one person yeah so wait universities and airlines so they just called it unit bomber una whoa okay i had no

fucking clue i thought it was like a solo bomber you know that's what i thought i thought oh one bomb at a time it was just one at a time solo mission yeah that's what i always thought but apparently it's from universities and airlines because those were his primary targets that they could figure out wow so the unabomber investigation uh they set up a hotline to take calls and offered a 1 million reward for anyone who could provide information what they didn't know is just how isolated this guy was so like a lot of killers they were explaining in the show a lot of killers can't hide as well as they think they can because they have neighbors they have family they have somebody might suspect something or he might slip up or they might recognize his

face in the grocery store but he was so far removed from anybody that like society from society from electricity that like people just weren't putting it together like barely anyone knew him um and we'll get to how he was caught but that's interesting in and of itself but so they were thinking someone has to recognize this guy someone has to know him and like nobody fucking knows who he is wow so there wasn't really much information in fact he actively sought ways to lead investigators off his scent and the problem is a lot of criminals are dumb he was not he was a literal harvard phd genius genius like a literal genius me saying literal genius makes me sound like the literally least literally the smartest person in the whole world he's like

literally a genius um yikes i told you i didn't go to harvard everybody calm down okay so consistently like i said all these bombs contain a metal plate stamped with the initials FC, one of which pierced that guy's heart, the person that he killed. So at the time, police didn't understand what FC meant. One theory was that FC was someone's initials, like he was signing the bomb. Although later, so the Unabomber wrote some letters to newspapers claiming that it meant freedom club and he was saying this was like eco-terrorists like a group of eco-terrorists he was a part of that was responsible for the bombings i mean obviously it was just him but he was kind of

portraying this like big organization sure he wanted it to seem like there was this like group of warriors behind these bombs that were responsible for it even though it was just a unibomber you know solo mission i hear you i hear you know i i'm thinking about those poor briefcase boys like they they're probably like god damn it like we we should have just never even told him that like a club was something you want to be a part of oh you're right they're like i hope they don't think we're in the freedom club the fc we're in the bc the briefcase club the bb the briefcase was no i just feel bad though like they probably are like shit like this guy i i mean they have really have no attachment to this part of it but you brought up a club and i

was like well first club he was in was the briefcase boys they probably feel really club ever since then i guess he's in the german club the coin club he was in was the Briefcase Boys. They probably feel really icky about that now. He's always loved a club ever since then, I guess. He was in the German club, the coin club. He's just chasing the high of a club. Being a member. Yeah. So he said that's what FCE stood for. Authorities have suggested, though, that maybe it stands for an obscene phrase like fuck computers.

Oh. Which I thought was interesting. At one point a university capitalism oh that's good i don't know yeah that's good that's probably better than fuck computers but who knows um so at one point this is really it's like funny and sad uh at one point a university employee whose initials were fc was like taken in as a suspect oh my god they probably were like you need to come with us just fucking in case the fbi was like fucking come with us and he openly had a contempt for computers and technology so they were like well this fits and he's just like wrong name

wrong time like he wrong hobby wrong dislikes and they took him in um and he was later cleared of suspicion thankfully uh so one bomb that didn't detonate there was a note inside that read woo w u sort of like the name woo okay it works i told you it would rv so now they're like oh shit this bomb didn't explode and we've got it we've got some initials we got to figure out who woo is and we have initials rv it was all made up like he just wrote shit well yeah like there's no way i mean realistically if we were chasing down a 15 year bombing purse like person who's bombing people yeah and he never showed any clues before and now all of a sudden

said rv i'd be like okay those are the two letters we can actively not pay attention to the non yeah yeah but so yeah so he wrote like strange notes he put uh oh my god this is one of the wildest things he went so far as to enter a bus stop bathroom grab a few pubic hairs and then put them in the bombs so that they'd be like we have dna and it was just random fucking people from the bus shelter those poor people who probably got pulled in by cops being like are you the unibomber and they were like what just pissed in the wrong bathroom oh my god also gross but i'm imagining fingers crossed there was like a some at least toilet paper in between his fingers a glove random person's pubes he went around and just like picked up

pubic like that's how invested he was and just like fucking around with this he was like i will just send them into different directions all over the place geez so on december 10th of 94 he kills another victim this time it's thomas mosser the executive vice president of an advertising agency called young and rubicam and then in 95 in april he murdered gilbert brent murray president of the california forestry association and he murdered him by mail bomb so now he's gotten it together i guess as far as like his technique and he's now killed three people uh two back to back so around this time dr philip sharp at mit as well as dr richard roberts of the new england bio lab started receiving these sinister letters which warned it

would be beneficial to your health to stop your research in genetics oh my god so he's threatening them um i guess he never sent one to the veterans affairs he gave up on that i don't really know uh but he started sending threatening letters to people who were studying genetics he had this idea that like they were trying to turn humans into computers and like one day we would all be which you know is like that old sci-fi like they're trying to store our brains and whatever and we can up we can download ourselves into androids i think he literally said they will they're trying to download our brains and it's like i mean i get that but also that's not like some of these people are sitting down syndrome like stop that's not what's happening right um so anyway he he killed these two more people he starts writing threatening letters

and then warren hogue of the new york times also received a letter from the unabomber which outlines the attacks thus far to kind of say like here's what i've done basically to prove it's me and he offers explanations as to why and how he picked his victims okay so hang on so before you tell me yeah what do, what are your thoughts? Because it's just that. All of this is all over the place. I'm trying to remember all of them. One of them was the guy who got stabbed in the heart.

What was his deal? Did it have to do with their job? I mean, I know their job has to do with it. He owned a computer repair store. Or vice president of a computer repair store. Okay. Then there was, damn i don't i can only the only thing i could relate it to is their jobs yeah i mean it is it's basically their jobs and he

would go into town on his bicycle go into the library which he was known to do and he would basically just research people's job titles and like decide if they were threatening to him if they were like by the way if you're going off of a standard description to someone's job yeah which is never exactly what it is like that okay so you're just making sweeping generalizations because like so much more goes into a role versus what you know based on the company yeah geneticist i imagine could mean zero a lot of things yeah like total different spectrum owning a computer store is not the same as like developing software like it's just not

right so he would basically go in the library do research find names and addresses and then find someone to be the return address and would just pick them based on their career path so or their industry i guess so here's a specific example according to his own letter mosser was chosen because of his work for a firm that helped exon clean up its public image after the exon valdez incident and the professors were selected because they were experts in certain fields presumably geneticists genetics he claimed to be part of an anarchist group so this is a description of ted himself he claimed to be part of an anarchist group so this is a description of ted himself he claimed to be part of an anarchist group aiming to break down

all society into very small completely autonomous units and discussed aspects of the explosive devices he also suggested a bargain if a lengthy manuscript was published the group would cease their terrorist activities the letter did add though that while group would cease their terrorist activities the letter did add though that while they would cease their terrorist activities they reserved the right to engage in sabotage so even if they stopped their terrorism they would still be allowed to sabotage and sabotage in his words right let's hear those yeah was considered destruction of property rather than people why couldn could you just start and end there yeah you think like that should be the worst of it maximum you'd think and i believe

most people who are anarchists are behind that they're not like let's run around bombing humans yeah random and killing doesn't sound like you're helping anything no especially like if it could be their daughter or their assistant or anyone holding a package and or an entire airplane full of people like it just seems to me excessive um so ted was now on this role of sending letters he uh three of the letters were followed by a series of other letters to major publications which also demanded they publish this 35 000 word manifesto he had written goodbye they always have a fucking manifesto and it's always way longer than i'm even i don't have the energy for that it's just like you love to hear yourself talk we get it

we get it couldn't you why why a manifesto that I have to read now? Couldn't you just like record yourself and then like send me the file at like three times the speed? Yeah. Like just put it in a podcast like everyone else. Yeah. This is our manifesto. Hello.

Oh, right. Technology. Not his thing. Not his thing. And so he had this 35,000 word essay slash manifesto and he called it industrial society and its future. And the FBI called it the Unabomber manifesto. And it also explains what he was doing in those six years where he just like. What was he doing?

Writing this manifesto, this 35,000 word. Of course. I thought in the manifesto it said. Oh, it explains. I took up a cooking class. Anyway, got it. No, that is what it said, I took up a cooking class. Anyway, got it. No, but that is what it sounded like I was saying. It explains that he was writing this manifesto and maybe taking a make sushi at home class.

I don't know. So he claimed that he would desist from terrorism if his demands were met. After deliberation among the publications uh it was advised that the essay should be published so they went back and forth on this a lot like we don't want to give anyone ideas and we don't want to like feed his ego but also we don't want him bombing more people just because we didn't put his letter out um so this guy named bob guccioni uh published. And he owned the magazine Penthouse. I don't know where this is going.

Oh, my God. And yet, I'm fully invested. Okay. So all I said was that. And I was like, well, I need to know what the fuck is going on here. How did he get caught up in this mix? Exactly. I was like, wait, wait.

He's writing letters to the New York Times and Washington Post. How is Pent penthouse involved i need to know now so i went and did a little dig diggeroo and um i found this paragraph on wiki several wildly unsuccessful investments by guccioni including the penthouse boardwalk hotel and casino which lost 160 million dollars and a never built nuclear fusion power plant added to his publishing empire's financial woes guccioni's efforts to regain sales and notoriety which included attempts to get monica lewinsky to pose for the magazine which was parodied in a sketch on saturday night live in 1998 and offering the unabomber a free forum for his views failed to increase readership oh my god with the rise of online access to often free

pornography in the late 1990s penthouse's circulation numbers began to suffer even more so this was a publicity stunt by penthouse wow oh my god how on earth i did not see that at all coming that's why i was like something is fishy like something is up i don't know what this guy is doing but something's going on wow i bet he didn't do this out of the goodness of his heart like there's something not happening so i mean also like his monica lewinsky thing like like no part of this feels genuine yeah yeah yeah he seems like he's kind of dug himself a hole uh and he was trying to build a nuclear fusion power i mean listen this guy this guy was all over the place he needed maybe a life coach is just he had a lot of ideas and really threw them

all at the wall just to see what would come from it and maybe none of it really stuck uh but so penthouse said we'll publish it and ted was like that's not good enough for me ted was not having it he replied that penthouse was less respectable than the new york times poor bob is like wait And Ted was like, that's not good enough for me. Ted was not having it. He replied that Penthouse was less respectable than the New York Times. Poor Bob is like, wait. Ow, I was trying to help. I almost got Monica Lewinsky. He replied that Penthouse was less respectable than the New York Times and the Washington Post. and to increase our chances of getting our stuff published in some respectable periodical he would

reserve the right to plant one and only one bomb intended to kill after our manuscript has been published so basically now he's saying so he was saying like i've got one last last one in me and yeah yeah after that it's over if you publish this manifesto i'll only kill one more person it's like zero how about zero yeah he's basically like upping his end of the or their end of the deal because they didn't follow through i guess but so the washington post published the essay uh in september of 95 and in kaczynski's manifesto he opens with the quote so everyone's buying out these newspapers to read this fucking wild manifesto they literally printed the entire 35 000 thing um and so it opens with the quote

the industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race and in a rolling stone article it outlines the entire point of his manifesto as he states is revolution anarchy quote its objective will be to overthrow not governments but the economic and technological basis of the present society now i'm gonna read you a little snippet let's go you know what this is what i meant when you were like oh maybe there's a poem in yours there's a manifesto there's literally a 35 000 word manifesto put some smooth jazz under it it could be poetry it could be really fucked up like jigsaw poetry for sure jigsaw poetry oh okay here's paragraph 128 electricity indoor plumbing rapid long distance communications how could one argue against any of these things yet all these technical advances taken together have created a world in which the

average man's fate is no longer in his own hands but in those of politicians corporate executives and remote anonymous technicians and bureaucrats whom he as an individual has no power to influence so it's basically 35 000 words of that um boring uh this part's interesting okay feminists are desperately anxious to prove that women are as strong and as capable as men. Clearly, they are nagged by a fear that women may not be as strong and as capable as men. Cute. That's another paragraph. What a fucking, what a catch.

What a catch. What a catch. You're right. You're right. I guess he's on to something that feminists are desperate to be proven and seen as equal. Yeah. He wasn't wrong about everything. What a novel idea mind-blowing mind-blowing um one person whose ears pricked when the manifesto was released was ted kaczynski's brother david's wife uh-oh well duh can you imagine marrying into that family

and all of a sudden this fucking guy is on the scene she's in the thing too and she's basically saying exactly that she's like she's like david always loved him like it's his brother but i was like what the hell is wrong with this guy yeah and like as a sister-in-law she was like he hated me he like sent us this weird letter on our wedding day like it just clearly was not a healthy relationship between in-laws um and so she this whole time is telling david her husband like you need to look into your brother and he said at first when she got this look in her eyes he was like nervous that she knew something and when he said it's your brother he was like i was so relieved i was like well of course it's not my brother like you know he he just was like of

course not like i know david can't be yeah i can't be i know ted's like weird but he wouldn't you know be this weird this extra and murderous so his wife is like we need to read this manifesto and maybe my guy i'm so sorry but we're gonna have to read this my dude you married me and you made a vow um so she was saying to him the whole time basically like yo something is up with your brother. And he was like, no, no, no. And then when this manifesto was released, she's like, well, maybe we should go read the manifesto and see if this strikes any sort of memory or, you know, relation, whatever. And so they went and all the newspapers had sold out at the local shop. So she's like, let's go check the Internet. And he's like, I didn't know what the Internet was.

And so. Wow. Time. I know. she's like let's go check the internet and he's like i didn't know what the internet was and so wow time i know so they went to the library which had the internet and he's like it was so surreal because i was reading this manifesto on the internet which like he had never really used before and he's reading this manifesto and he's like his heart sank like the second he started reading he was like it's fucking ted yeah he was like it's ted and i guess if you see a 35 000 word essay that is this balloon balloon balloonatoons i don't know what i was trying to say oh my god it's like i just can't just stick with the noodles all the way to the top anymore oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry to the artists because now i have to ask you please god can you go draw some balloonatoons wow balloonatoons how is it on a tv show tm tm tm

it's all it comes on after oswald the late night programming it it's just children it's just a it's just a bunch of balloon animals all hanging out together it's like a geo and junie and mooney balloon animals and it's just very cute i can already tell it's june bunch of balloon animals all hanging out together. It's like a Gio and Junie and Moony balloon animals. And it's just very cute. I can already tell. It's June and Moon balloonatoons. I'm so sorry. I can't believe I just said that and then I couldn't escape my way out of it. Oh.

You. My brain is fried. Well done. My brain is gone. I'm not kidding. Anyway, tell me about this balloonatoon. So this is this fucking balloon. I'm so bored of it.

I'm going to pee my pants in like five seconds. It's just such a perfect word. I don't know how. It just made sense. And then I said it out loud and I was like, I guess that there's a reason nobody says this. No, but there's why isn't why isn't anybody saying it? That's the that's a perfect word. That's like on someone like a clown.

Like you're just a balloon. You fucking balloon. Who do you think you are who do you think you are the unabomber i'm sorry that's officially a word like that's in the doc where that that's it documented oh my god oh well so that's i guess how i was trying to describe his manifesto so we could just leave it at that um perfect but so his brother read it was like there's only one voluna tune i know that would write something like this and it is teddy boy and so ted is the one who he was like fuck i know it's him i know it's him and interestingly

enough he wrote david wrote in his memoir uh which is called every last tie the story of the unabomber and his family uh he said he didn't even remember ever hearing the word unabomber before this like this wasn't even something that was like on his horizon like it wasn't even part of his vocabulary like well he also wasn't touching the internet he was clearly like not around yeah he was like you know reading the paper but there's only so much he had like heard about this and and you know his wife saying it's your brother he was like oh he was like dismissed it like oh come on you know preposterous right so he reads this manifesto and he's like okay this reminds me a lot about these letters ted used to write into publications um about the negative effects of technology and so to be sure

he hired a private investigator named susan swanson to kind of take the letters that he had take the manifesto see if they're if she thought they were related if they were written by the same person and it's just very sad because he like you can see how absolutely heartbroken he is because he's the younger brother and he said when he was little he asked his mom like what is like what happened to ted why doesn't he have any friends and his mom described the story of him being in the hospital and right and she said don't ever leave your brother because he doesn't he can't be left behind shit don't ever all these problems yeah and he's like she said don't ever abandon him and he swore to never abandon his brother and now he's like well shit i can't like yeah he's clearly a very very very sensitive empathetic person and so he was just stuck in this horrible position and so he hires this private investigator

obviously praying that she's like no this is not the same person and then he she went i'm sorry my guy it's for sure she's sure your wife is right it's the balloon tune all along um the balloon a tune in law actually yeah so meanwhile david tried to do some snooping of his own in november of 95 he wrote a letter to his brother being like hey why don't i come visit you in montana and uh ted's response was this i get just choked with frustration at my inability to get our stinking family off my back once and for all and stinking family emphatically includes you i don't ever want to see you or hear from you or any other member of our family again so wow not interested in even though him and his brother were like in theory kind of close yeah so his david was like uh okay um it's like well that's the nail in the coffin i'm pretty sure

i was still in denial until all of a sudden this behavior happened so he was very taken aback and i think his brother had been growing distant and living out in the middle of nowhere and like didn't like his wife so i think they were already kind of growing apart but it was still just so difficult for him clearly emotionally to follow through with this despite even his brother being kind of a jackass in this letter and do you think he actually legitimately meant that or do you think he was trying to like keep his brother away so he wouldn't get caught oh i don't know that's a really good question maybe he was like it's just better if you're not around and he just thought if i'm really like if i lash out then

you won't come that's a really good point i hadn't thought of that i have no clue it could very well be just like him trying to keep his solo lifestyle and like not have him visit his bombshell his literal bomb as he's in the middle of almost getting arrested yeah full of bombs surrounded by the fbi yeah um so in early 96 uh an investigator urged fbi hostage negotiator and criminal profiler clinton r van zandt to compare the manifesto and the letters that david had from his brother and when they looked at them the uh criminal profile determined that there was an 80 i'm sorry a 60 percent overlap uh and so they he was like it's worth telling the fbi i think there's 60 chance that this is the same person or at least 60 of the content seems to be written by the same person so they're like let's let the fbi know and

when the fbi took a look at this they were like okay it took a while because at this point there were like thousands of leads coming in every day. And like my uncle, my brother, my boyfriend is the Unabomber, you know, and so they have to filter through all these. But finally, they look at the evidence and they're like, oh, I think this is the guy we're looking for. Yeah. And so they are able to get a search warrant of Ted's house. And when they search his cabin, they find a live bomb uh well there you have it exhibit a i was like what's the phrase uh exhibit a exactly they find a bomb and they have to diffuse it on scene so that's cool and fun um they discovered detached parts of bombs handwritten

journal entries which together totaled 40 000 pages okay so there was more to this manifesto than uh that we knew about oh that didn't by the way include the manifesto so the manifesto was totally separate the 40 000 pages was just were just like journal entries holy shit well i mean to be fair though like if i lived in the woods what else would you do if i didn't have social media and all i had was a pen i guess i'm writing fuck you have a bomb too i mean okay yeah you've got other things to do i guess pen and a bomb but yeah you can only bomb so much in a year so i guess the rest writing is cheaper and easier it is and it's kind of less likely to send you to prison i would think but yeah what do i know so they find these journal entries 40 000 pages of them the entries were comprised of bomb making experiments descriptions

of the unabomber crimes every uh experiment as he called it had a number that correlated to it so like the guy in the um whose fingers had been blown off he was like i was i forget if it was i think it's 125 he's like i was experiment number 125 like it was like listed in so it goes even further to show you that like he didn't just see like women as not even objects he saw everybody as i guess maybe at best an object or like a subject or like a yeah something to observe something like part of a greater experiment that he was doing which like is he legitimately um he has psychopathy or sociopathy or whatever um that was not ever uh determined i don't think because it seems it seems like he like shows some signs and just kind of like being more curious about the world

and like knowing how to empathize with it right like he he could study it to a certain extent or understand it you can really study it by like oh experiment 125 fingers got blown off yes and like i didn't accomplish my goal which was to kill him it said they failed i mean it's it's disturbing um wow so yeah he had a numerical code um a lot of the pages were written in full code and he had it was just all numbers and then he had a key code written next to it uh and so they were able to decode what he had written so for example after his second he had a cipher for himself so okay here's the thing he had his own cipher and he later said he wrote it in cipher so that if somebody like a neighbor or his family member or somebody came over they wouldn't just open and see bomb it was sort of like he wrote

in code just in like he knew somebody could just open it and like decipher it but he was like in case somebody happened to glance at it which like probably wouldn't happen but in case david was like knock knock bro's here you know he didn't want him to just i showed up anyway remember me your favorite friend uh yeah so that was what he said and so there was a code and they were able to decode it and so after bob number two for example he had written experiment number two i had hoped that the victim would be blinded or at least have blown his hand off or be otherwise maimed well live and learn i wish i knew how to get a hold of some dynamite oh my god yeah i mean so really just like critical

critically thinking of these things as just test subjects and no emotion to them trying to right and at one point he even laughed because someone said like do you have any remorse about attacking like an airline or whatever and he was like he's like i couldn't stop laughing at the thought that i would feel sorry for attacking someone who works at an airline i was like uh okay wow yeah um kind of creepy so to be clear also like i said the 40 000 pages did not include you know our favorite book industrial society in this feature um those separate so on april 3rd of 96 the fbi were like okay we got you bud we're gonna arrest you they got him at his cabin

and he was charged with possession of the components of a bomb based on evidence found in his cabin they had looked at it while he was out right and then he's like walk in one day or something then they knew he was home and they like surrounded him yeah gotcha so up until this point the unabomber was the most expensive investigation in fbi history costing over 50 million dollars whoa yeah just one guy 50 million dollars um despite ted kaczynski's lawyers urging him to consider an insanity plea he rejected it and he refused he tried to fire his lawyers for pushing an insanity plea because the whole thing was i did this for a cause for a reason like i don't he wanted the he wanted the credibility yeah he yeah exactly he's like i don't want this to look like the ravings of a madman i

want this to look like i had a a real i'm proud of my work yeah and it was for a cause the like anarchist cause the anti-capitalist cause and so he was like if if they call me insane or say i have mental issues quote unquote then what yeah what credibility do i get it's all down the drain everything i worked on it right okay so it's like i'm so glad you stand by your morals so yeah this you'll this you'll uh commit to i guess yeah so he kept rejecting an insanity plea to the point that he was like i'm going to defend myself in court but um when he found out but the judge was like no uh you it's too late you can't do that so after a suicide attempt in jail he found

out they were trying to do an insanity plea and he tried to take his own life that night that's like how serious he was about not doing that um so a court-appointed psychiatrist diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia but still said that he was fit to appear in court etc um speak for himself and the u.s judge district judge was like no you can't defend yourself you need to stick with your lawyers it's too late right so on january 22nd 1998 instead of going through trial he kind of shocked everyone by just uh admitting guilt and accepting a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole in exchange for not basically going through with the insanity plea wow he was like it's either that or i just

say i'm guilty and go straight to prison so that's what he did oh okay so he's currently serving his sentences in a maximum security prison in colorado and after his arrest it was speculated that he may have had another alias uh one you may have heard of called the zodiac killer really they think he'd be the zodiac killer well they kind of think everyone was a zodiac killer to be fair but there is a theory that he could be the zodiac killer and it became suspicious because ted had lived in the san francisco bay area from 67 to 69 and both he and the zodiac killer were extremely smart had an interest in bombs and codes and both had written letters to newspapers demanding they be published their work right however you know there's some weird crossover but then you think about the mo

and like the zodiac killer didn't bomb people and ted kaczynski didn't stab people as far as we know at least like their mo's don't match so it's a weird coincidence but who knows who knows hasn't been proven yet so for more information i recommend you watch the mini series but other than that that is the story of good old teddy teddy boy wow well done the end the end that was a long one apologies oh my god that was really long sorry mine was really long too i thought mine was going to be short but it didn't happen oops well go figure just us a couple why would we ever say our episodes are gonna be short what a dumb thing to say oh remember when they used to actually be 45 minutes what were we doing i don't know let's

go back to that i think now we have more in-depth info where research is better done. We're not like, oh, what does Wiki say? Right. Okay, the end. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in. By now, we know the results of the webbies when this comes out. I don't know what that is yet, but thank you again to everyone who has voted um i hope everyone had a good mother's day and now we've got no

holidays in our way except until the big ones the big ones birthday time uh christine texted me a couple a couple days ago and was like exactly one month until uh until your birthday and then i had a near heart attack because i went oh my god i have been literally inside since that's so weird i don't remember getting you a text or getting texts from you on the 4th of may you want to know why because i didn't want to say 30 days or until you're 30 well did you see my post on instagram my mom said in one month you'll be 30 haha and i was yes and then i said i'm frantically swiping through bumble bff right now to find a new younger friend i've already done that with you i've got my younger friend i'll have to replace you next year when you turn 30

i know i don't i won't blame you well anyway thank you everyone and uh from our balloonatune hearts to yours i hope that uh everyone has a happy week coming up. Hey! All right. Well, we'll see you next week. And? That's? Why?

We? Drink!