And That's Why We Drink - E224 The Hogwarts of Prisons and Two Generations of Cringeworthy Screen Names

Episode Date: May 23, 2021

It's episode 224! And the Vaccination Trifecta are finally out of quarantine and visiting family so we're super excited to bring you our very first live show from Christine's home state of Ohio! We had such a blast in Columbus and covered incredible stories: Em took us about an hour down the road to the Mansfield Reformatory. Then Christine takes us 30 minutes in the opposite direction for the intriguing unsolved case of the Circleville Letter Writer. And we won a Webby! We're SO thrilled. Thank you so much for everyone who voted and has supported us over the years. Check out our 5 word speech linked below. That's definitely why we drink! Check out our Webby speech here!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Go to Curology.com/DRINK for a free 30-day trial, just pay for shipping and handling!Go to Vistaprint.com/DRINK to get started on your unregiftable gift!Go to ZipRecruiter.com/drink today to try ZipRecruiter for FREE!Head to Rothys.com/DRINK to find your new favorites today!This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and And That’s Why We Drinklisteners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/DRINKGo to HelloFresh.com/drink12 and use code drink12 for 12 free meals, includingfree shipping!

I Feel like a kid about to give a presentation that he has no idea We just flew in from Los Angeles and boy are my arms tired fun fact. He was a long time English is my first language English is my first language. Is camera home? Whoops! Sassy with me.

Sassy the clown? The clown is shy. Ooh, quite cool. Sweet, that's a good one. Finish your drink. And that's why we dream! Oh! Hello, hello, hello! Ohio!

I'm so happy! Welcome kind of home. Almost, almost there, but this is my first Ohio show ever, and I'm so excited. Ooh, that's heavy. I'm not that strong. Have you been having fun so far? Guys, I've been home. The end.

Yep. I've been sleeping and drinking wine with my mom, so it's been good. Who's here, by the way? Oh, my mom. Yes. Sorry. And I also made Blazeze fly to ohio with me so he's here somewhere too so they're bonding they've all probably left already yeah they'll be waiting in the parking lot right when i was

in high school my stepdad drove me to columbus the first time i ever went to columbus was like freshman year high school my stepdad drove me up for a Fall Out Boy concert. Unsurprising. No, not surprising at all. And my friend Renee, who's at OSU Law here, she came with me. And my stepdad drove us up, dropped us off, and then waited in the parking lot with earplugs in for like two hours. That's the most stepdad thing in the whole world. But I will say that time in Columbus was great.

And this one might be even better. So let's see. Oh, good. And that is saying something. Yeah, you're headlining just like Fall Out Boy. You're exactly the same. Mom, I told you I'd do something cool someday. I've never been here.

Welcome. Thank you. I'm having a good time. Actually, so I was in this exact spot yesterday with Eva. We were trying to explore, and we ended up coming to this. This is like near a mall, right? Yeah. We walked the hell out of this mall yesterday.

That's Ohio. And then we were figuring out how to get here, and Eva was like, so we were there yesterday, and we've seen it all, so I felt the need to let you know that I did eat Grater's ice cream yesterday. And then I forced Eva to also eat Grater's ice cream. You forced her. The first time I had it was at your wedding. Right. We did serve Grater's ice cream at my wedding.

That is not a joke. As well as Skyline Chili. Right. We did serve Grater's ice cream at my wedding. That is not a joke. As well as Skyline Chili. Okay. Anyway, I had a great time eating ice cream yesterday and then I also went to the hot topic here.

I recommend the Avengers section. That part I did not necessarily put on our to-do list, but... Sure, good. But Eva also found

a shirt with... It looks like a retro neon... I thought it was like a Grateful Dead shirt. It's just a bunch of cats. Don't get excited. It's a bunch of cats and space helmets, and it says Meowter Space. So Eva's having a good time here, too.

Ohio is treating us well. Thank you. I'm trying to show off. Job well done with your ice cream. Thank you. That being said, show off, so. Job well done with your ice cream. Thank you. That being said, let's crack into it. Yay! Good, good.

Good. Also waiting for the day people are like, mm, no. Please don't. So this is, I have things to say. Great. Good thing I'm here, huh? What else is new?

So I'm nervous that I may have done this before, and I'm really hoping that's not the case. Well, I won't know, so. I looked everywhere, like through all of our episodes, and according to our episode guide, I've never covered it, but it still sounds like creepily familiar. Uh-oh. In another world, perhaps. So, uh, if I have done it, I'm sorry. Uh, just clap anyway and pretend

we're super anxious people. I do have anxiety. So clapping would, would bode well for me. Oh, wow. I haven't even said the name yet. That was easy. Wow. Okay, keep that going this whole time. Okay. So this is the story of the Mansfield Reformatory. Okay. AKA also the Ohio State Reformatory. And I know it's an hour from here. I Google mapped it.

That does sound familiar. Have I done it before? No. Oh, I hear people chanting yes and my anxiety is going i was like let's go it's fine but all right all right it's good damn shit well okay i'll keep going then uh okay good so some of you are from the other world where I did cover it already. That's great. So this was a banana story. So I'm very excited to share it.

Sometimes, not that I ever get any bad stories, but this one I'm actually pretty stoked about more than others. Lots of ground to cover. So welcome to history class with me. So this is apparently the most haunted place in Ohio. So you came on a good night. Some say it is one of the most haunted places in the

United States. It has been featured on many... They seem like that's really... Okay. Ohio, that's cool. I'm trying to get brownie points with Em here. That's awesome! I'll tell you. I'll be like, oh no, it was so cool. That was so interesting.

So, it has been featured on many TV shows and movies, including, but not limited to, Harry and Walter Go to New York, Tango and Cash, Air Force One, Scariest Stories on Earth, Scariest Places on Earth, Ghost Hunters, Lil Wayne,

one, Scariest Stories on Earth, Scariest Places on Earth, Ghost Hunters, Lil Wayne, Lil Wayne's music video, Go DJ, Fallen Angels, Ghost Adventures, Ghost Hunters Academy, Inside Secret America,

Destination America, but it is best known for Shawshank Redemption. Oh! Oh my god, I had no idea! No? No! Well, you're gonna learn some shit. Okay!

So, it apparently was a, it was like a major set in the film Shawshank Redemption. I love that movie. Oh, well, good. Good. Because we're gonna talk about it, so. I'm trying to prove my American pop culture knowledge. I'm up to date.

I'm up to it with 1993 movies. Yep. Okay, so 1860s. Let's travel back. Oh, boy. I remember. Fondly. The 1860s.

The property was originally a training camp during the Civil War called Camp Mordecai Bartley. Ooh, ah. If you don't do it, I will. It's fine. It's fine. It's okay. Oh, that's going to be a long night.

So, apparently, fun fact. Just keep going, Christine. Oh, I've been going for a while. Apparently it's called Camp Mordecai Barley after the first Ohio governor to come from Mansfield. Okay, good. I had to read it, so you have to hear it. In 1867, so six years later, Mansfield was chosen as the build site for, quote,

intermediate penitentiary, which was the original name. Fun fact? I don't know. Half a drink, a sip, if you will. So intermediate penitentiary was going to be 180 acres and it ends up costing $1.3 million. The architects and designers decided to settle on three different design styles for this penitentiary. And all three of them combined were supposed to intimidate but encourage the inmates. Oh my god, this sounds like a 2019 Instagram campaign. Everybody sitting down, like buzzwords, keywords.

Right, right. It was supposed to intimidate them into taking their time in prison seriously. I think being in prison is enough. I don't think you need to work very hard on that, yeah. But also to encourage them to become spiritually reborn. Oh, for God's sakes. So there's that. It was built to look like a castle because they wanted it to look extra intimidating, apparently.

The intimidation factor was more important than the encouragement, I think. Yeah. Shocker. It was built to look like a castle and was considered a gift if you were an inmate that got sentenced to be there compared to other facilities because it looked cool, truly. It's like the Hogwarts of prisons. Yeah. I get it. And that would be the title of this episode.

That's how we do it, folks. So apparently, rumor has it that when the first prisoners came to this facility, the townspeople lined the streets handing them cigars as congratulatory gifts for being selected as the wizards of Hogwarts, if you will. The prisoners. The prisoners of Hogwarts, if you will. The prisoners. The prisoners of Azkaban. Yeah. Shit, now we're just going to start challenging each other on Harry Potter trivia.

Now J.K. Rowling's going to get pissed. She's like, that's not what I meant! Okay. So apparently, can you believe it? It wasn't too great to live there. Um, despite the cigars, right? Yeah. You got cigars day one and then day two, apparently it was very behind in its construction, but

the sense they had already assigned people to be moving in, they were moving them into a facility that was not entirely finished. So part of your job when you were an inmate there was to help finish construction of the jail you're in. That's terrible. And it took 14 years after people moved in. So in 1919

it was finally complete. And fun fact. I swear to God. It had the facility had the largest self-supporting steel cell block in the world. So there were 600 cells on six stories. Ooh, ah. Ooh, ah.

So it was supposed to originally be a mid-level, moderate security prison for first-time offenders. So the goal was mainly rehabilitation. And when it first started, it was very progressive for its time. It also had vocational schooling on sites that way you could learn a trade so when you went back out into society you would have a whole skill set which in the early 1900s late 1800s was like a big deal sure for the facility was self-sustaining so they produced their own food and their own clothes and all that and they have records saying that 90 of the inmates did not re-offend after being there so it was doing pretty hot i was gonna say i get excited every time you get to this point of

a story and i'm like here's the here's the top of the hill yeah we're about to cascade down and then you you heartily push me down the other side and then i kick you as hard as I can. So I'm ready. So things were looking hot in 1919. We got a whole hundred years. The end. Yep. No. Okay. So 1891, in 1891, so this was a couple years before, but I just wanted to throw this in. In the 1890s, it was named to be Ohio State Reformatory. That's where the name came from. Okay. So they changed it once people started actually moving in. Ohio State Reformatory. That's where the name came from. So they changed it once people started actually moving in. In the same year there was a woman who lived

across the street from the facility in a farmhouse. Her name was Phoebe Wise. Oh boy. Phoebe? And she's here tonight. So she's not, I wouldn't say she's the main character of this story but she's definitely a fun one

so I wanted to give her a second. Okay. So Phoebe, people thought that she was rich because she didn't trust banks. It gets more fun, don't worry. Sure, sure, following. Oh, fuck, I forgot. Because she didn't trust banks, people assumed that she had a lot of money hidden in her house. And so she became a victim of frequent robbery. Oh, my God.

And she was right across the street from the facility. So they got used to her walking there to, like, report every time that her house got broken into. And at one point there were even, this is like the main story people tell, this happened on Christmas Eve. Three men broke into her house, tied her to a chair, and lit a torch under her feet. Ugh. What? Demanding the treasure, quote. What the fuck?

She did not have treasure. No. And so she lied and said that there was a diamond ring or something. And they went looking, couldn't find it, so they just left the house. So she had to untie herself and she walked to the jail and i'm sure they were like what do you want phoebe and they're phoebe and she was like it happened again but this was the story that was like i guess the scariest of them all and so she became a local

celebrity which got the attention of a guy named jacob and he ended up becoming her new stalker I was like husband oh no no the opposite I thought we were going love story we did not I think he thinks he's a husband so he would show up at her house at night he would tap on her window

he would knock on the door and he would watch her through her windows and she reported him many times and eventually they even arrested him and they put him away temporarily and then he came back and he was even more aggressive with his stalking and then one night he was uh like throwing rocks at a window that you do it's supposed to be romantic but also if i had a glass window and you're throwing rocks at it i'd be like stop fucking doing that but he would throw through like pebbles at the window for her to open the window and then he called up to her and he said phoebe marry me or kill me so she pointed a rifle through the window

and she shot him a rifle through the window. And she shot him. And since then, stalking laws have changed dramatically. Well, actually for the 1890s, it was very progressive how they handled it. They were like, no, he was being a total asshat. We're not going to arrest you. You're totally fine.

All right. Okay. Self-defense. And then they interviewed her in the Mansfield News Journal the next day. And the headline was, Phoebe Wise Rids Herself of an Intolerable Nuisance. It sounds like they're talking about buying weed killers and spraying her lawn. Weed killer named Jacob. An intolerable nuisance so that was fun wasn't it okay what a fun time we've had uh so after she died in 1933 so several years later from probably in her sleep peacefully i don't know um okay locals believe that she still had treasure in there they didn't quit on this.

Oh, my God. And so they began breaking into her house and tearing apart the floors and walls. But when they started doing that, apparently there also started this rumor that not only was she hiding treasure, but also she was a witch. Oh, sure, obviously. Because if you think of all the traumatic shit

that had been happening to her when she was alive she was described and by the way let's see who else can uh fit into this category aka you and me they thought she was a witch because of these things okay she only stayed in her house talked to her animals uh-oh all right i right, I'm out. Shouted loudly. Uh-huh. And liked wearing lazy attire. Oh my God. So I guess we're all witches. I mean, yeah.

I guess we knew that was coming eventually. So the local children think that it's now, the Phoebe Wise House is also a witch house, and somewhere on the property is still treasure. Oh my God. Okay. Even in her death, she's like, Jesus, I just wanted to be left alone with my animals.

I wanted to shout with my animals. Anyway, that was, I promise there's like a crossover between that story and this later, but that was across the street from the jail. So now we're going to go back to the jail. Oh, I love that though. Thank you.

That's why I kept it in, man. Thank you. So back to the reformatory where it gets nice inside. So I hope you all had fun. Yep. It's over. Stop laughing. In the 1960s, the reformatory was getting overcrowded.

And there became a conflict. It was more regular than usual that there was conflict happening between the cells because now there was three to six times as many people in each cell. Uh-oh. In the 1970s because they had put so many people in there, including more dangerous hardened criminals than first-time

offenders, it was now declared a max security prison. Now the prison's focus had shifted from reform to just punishment and it got a reputation for its punishment being considered inhumane conditions oh no uh including extreme violence between inmates excessive daily shankings and beatings oh the fuck which i didn't add this but i'm gonna say it now great i love when this happens off script we yeah uh so we we've talked before about how much we love slash hate the show uh scariest places on earth oh yes

and which this two people have heard of it so yeah good if you haven't go home and scare the shit out of yourself tonight it's very frightening um so this show was featured on there and they one former inmate told a story where he they were in like the barber section right and a guy that was cutting one of the inmates hair all the hairs um it sounded weird coming out of my mouth what if this was just a dad joke you were like preparing the whole time for just a stupid dad joke. No, it gets darker. I'm glad that made you laugh because the second part is going to be a real bummer. Sorry.

So the barber apparently, the inmate owed the barber a pack of cigarettes. And then the inmate was like, well, I'm not going to give you those. And so, mid-cutting his hair, the barber took a straight edge to his neck. And then apparently it did so much damage that the guy tried to run away and only got down the hall before his whole head fell off. What the fuck, Em?

It started as a dad joke it went a different direction though just a little bit yeah so when i say extreme violence i'm not saying like punched in the face i'm saying like really dark gruesome shit like that so great that was happening on a daily basis super not that specifically but shit that gruesome. The barber was just like on it. The barber was like, Sweeney Todd was working there. So. He just wanted a cigarette.

He just wanted a cigarette. Also, the reformatory was dealing with poor nutrition for everyone, pest infestations between rats and roaches. Super, super. The infirmary was apparently a joke. So people who went there just got neglected and disease just got worse and worse and they didn't separate anyone from each other

and so everyone started getting sick. Occasionally, inmates would also get thrown over the catwalks on higher floors and thrown to the first floor the, like, to the first floor of the jail. And then there was torture. Oh. That sounds like the sequel to our podcast. And then there was torture. And that's why we drank.

Oh, but wait. That's the sequel. But wait. There's more. There is some sort of torture called the butterfly. I don't like it. I don't know what it is. I don't like it.

Here's the thing. No. All I found out was that it's a type of torture called the butterfly. I don't like it. I don't know what it is. I don't like it. Here's the thing. No. All I found out was that it's a type of electro torture. And then I Googled butterfly electro torture. And what I got were a lot of interesting sex toys. Which like you do you, but like i've never seen that stuff before em and i are very sheltered i kind of went to like screenshot it and send it to you but then i was like that's a bad idea that was i'd have to do a lot of explaining they already have enough on us you don't need to right right right more ammo so i'm guessing that was not the type of

thing that they were doing in the jail um probably would have been a little better if it was but yeah yeah so but i mean i guess truly you have to use your imagination because google images did not help so butterfly electro torture then uh people were also tortured with water hoses there was also a sweat box which was a truly a metal box that sat next to or that was in the boiler room so it would get up to 120 degrees and you were in there barefoot and pretty much entirely naked and you just burned and burned great yes thanks them yeah love it look you guys wanted to come here. It's always a toss-up what I'm going to say. You took the risk, so.

Fair. And then the final slash most common torture was the hole, which was just really awful solitary confinement. Ironically, the chapel in this jail was also an execution room. Superb. And many people were tortured and hanged there. What the fuck? Many people also died by suicide. One in particular that I, in every single article and feature on TV,

they all talked about this one suicide in cell 13, where an inmate named James Lockhart, he doused himself with stolen turpentine and paint thinner and set himself on fire. And his cellmates tried to drag him to the infirmary, but his body was peeling off in chunks.

Oh, God! I'm sorry. I didn't like it either. I'm just trying to educate. We're doing this for you. I'm doing this so you look really smart the next time chunks of skin get brought up. All right.

Okay, moving on. La, la, la, la, la, la. So, obviously several people died here is the next thing I had to fucking say, apparently. Up to 215 people died here. They are all buried outside in a cemetery right next to the property. Two of the bodies that are also guards who died while on their shift. One in the 1920s was shot by an inmate and another in the 1930s during an

escape attempt was bludgeoned to death by inmates. Oh no. And then in 1948, there was another prep, another murder on the property, but not actually in the jail. It was the superintendent of the farm, but not actually in the jail. It was the superintendent of the farm, because remember, it was a self-sustaining property.

So the farm superintendent and his wife and daughter all lived on the property. They ended up being kidnapped and shot in the woods by two people that were on parole. They were known as the mad dog killers and they planned the murder for years after they drunkenly started talking about different things that had happened to them in the jail and realized that the uh superintendent they were both talking about that tortured them was the same person oh shit and they decided they were going to kill him and his family. Oh, shit. Okay. So in the 1950s, there was a new superintendent named Arthur, and apparently he was very well respected. Everyone liked him. In the 1950s, he had already been working there for 20 years, and he lived in the administration

area with his wife, Helen. He actually tried his best to personally improve the conditions the best he could. He would play music for the inmates. He tried to get to know each of them personally. He also started playing slow music on the speakers to keep the inmates calm. So he was doing what he could, I guess. Which is good for him. Sure.

Better than anything else you've said so far. No, so far. We like him the entire time. I don't have to be on edge. I really. We just like Arthur. That's all. I was prepared him and helen to really go in my shit list but no i'm glad uh well one day they were going to go on a date and helen was looking for her jewelry box in the closet oh and she knocked over a loaded gun and it went off and shot her in the chest and she died three days later. Listen, I thought...

Yeah, that was a game changer, because I also, when I first started reading about it, I thought we were going to hate Arthur, but apparently a lot of inmates also, because gossip spread, and they all thought that he actually shot her and tried to cover it up. Oh, no.

So he went from really well-respected to people calling him murderer, and it's really awful. But he ended up trying to keep working there. And then in his office, he ended up dying of a heart attack. But both of them died on the property. I see where that's going. Yes.

Hint, hint. Wink, wink. I finally figured out after two years. Their story has not ended. So, yes. So they both died on the property. And then back to the hole real quick. Oh, great.

I was waiting to go back. Yeah, couldn't wait. Super. So, like I said, it's a type of solitary confinement, but it's in total darkness in a dungeon. People were starved and only allowed to eat every three days. Oh, shit. They had to sleep on concrete floors.

Like I said, there was rats and roaches that had infested the area. And this is important for, like, the next thing I'm going to say, but just to have it in your mind. There were only 20 cells, and they were built so that only one person could fit in each cell. Okay? So in 1957, there was a riot that broke out

among 120 inmates, and all of them got punished by being put in the hole, which means there were six men per cell. Oh, fuck. And something that was meant for one person. Uh-oh. And they were all stuck down there for a month without anybody checking on them. Oh. What?

So the guards also accidentally paired up two of the most violent inmates in the same cell great and apparently when they fought the guards heard but decided they weren't going to go down there and one was killed and they didn't find out until that month had passed because they didn't want to go check and they found the body stuffed in the bedding but so oh fuck that's the most violent of several deaths that happened in the whole um someone's like okay everyone's like i get it i'm here okay like i said the infirmary was no better there was a lot of neglect and a lot of people actually starved there because they couldn't fight off the inmates that would just walk in and steal their food oh shit i didn't think of that um and then in 1978 the council

for human dignity filed a lawsuit for inhumane conditions i'm glad that exists finally it's apparently a branch of the aclu oh great so they're okay yeah you like them yeah i think i do i certainly do so in the so that was in 1978 but then it still took them eight more years until the prison was forced to be closed and then due to delays they didn't actually even close it for another four years so this lawsuit came out in 1978 and it didn't close until 1990 1990 yeah oh jesus okay the building was supposed to be torn down but but then a little movie called Shawshank Redemption was starting up. You know, the one that I've seen. Yeah.

And the location scouts were looking at a whole bunch of different prisons to film the movie at, and they were like, oh, I like this one. It's empty. We can use this. This sounds like a deal. And because the movie became so big, it made the building itself kind of famous. And so after the movie, preservationists it made the building itself kind of famous and so after the movie preservationists convinced the state of ohio to not tear down any more of it that they already had

so the front of the building and a lot of the cell blocks have been saved okay um in 1995 the mansfield reformatory preservation society was formed so they turned the prison into a museum and they're trying to restore the building to its original state so it's open almost year-round and then they give a series of tours okay um including the shawshank trail tour yes which is behind the scenes stories and scene locations oh ah they were ready for that one uh a halloween themed tour called the haunted prison experience i like it actually wait no i don't like that well you don't because there's also animatronics there apparently absolutely not they also offer public and private ghost hunts ghost walks for children

they also host ghost hunting classes yes and then they also host special ghost events where famous ghost hunters can be your tour guide for the night. I thought you were going to say famous ghosts were there. And I was like, yes! But that's second best. Ideally, they'll start that one up next. Yeah. I'm hoping.

Ohio. Well, they offer three different guided ghost tours specifically called History Meets Hollywood, Beyond the Bars, and apparently an inmate tour where the tour guides are actual former inmates. Oh, that's cool. And there's a quote that says one of the tour guides here was here in the 1960s and another one's in the 1980s, so their tours are a little different because even though they were from the same cell block,

they lived here under different laws, so they give the history better than most weird weird weird super cool that is cool also uh some people are very excited about this uh including me the building also hosts a music and tattoo festival. What? Cool. A murder mystery dinner theater. Yes. A beer fest. I'm moving back home, Mom. And the Shawshank Hustle,

which is a 7K run, which I will not fucking be at. Sorry, Mom, I'm not moving back home. Never mind. But anyway, so they're just thinking of business plans, and're like that'll do that'll do that'll do so apparently anything you want to do there from music to tattoos to ghosts to beer to running you can all do it all there it's another one of those 2019 instagram like all right sure let's go this way and that way and buzzword it's very much a choose your own adventure so that is the history of the reformatory okay now on to the ghosts oh yay

so the administration area which i think outside of the cell blocks in the front of the building is the only part left that has not been taken down so you can still visit i'm doing this in by room just so you guys i tried to keep it organized because there's a lot of nonsense going on i there was a lot of things in a lot of places. So I was like, I'm just going to keep this, you know, for me, mentally sane. Okay. If that's what we're going to call it. So the administration area, people have reported seeing shadow people.

Uh-uh. They have heard voices and footsteps. They have sensed being watched directly in their face and from afar. It's interesting that it's different. Yeah, I wonder if they're two different entities or like some days he's just more pissed. He's a little more ballsy. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. We'll talk about it later. Yeah, we'll talk about it. People have also felt gusts of cold air hit them in the face. Great. That's better than other things hitting them in the face. Great. That's better than other things hitting you in the face.

So this is very true. People have also heard a man and a woman whispering to each other. They've also smelled roses, which was Helen's perfume. And keep in mind, Helen and Arthur, they lived in the admin area. Oh, got it. So this would be where they probably haunt. And they both died there, right? Yes.

So you can smell roses, which was Helen's perfume. You can also smell cigars, because Helen knew how to party. No, I don't know. I thought that was his perfume. If we're going by the binary stereotype, I'm sure that was Arthur's gig, was cigars. Yeah.

Helen has also been seen walking to her bathroom, which apparently is now known as the pink bathroom. And people can see misty apparitions where the shower used to be. Oh, interesting. Okay, questionable, but okay. This, so I got this from a article, obviously. I mean, I didn't just think it. You made it all up. I'm just saying in the attic specifically, there was only one thing I mean, and just think it. You made it all up. I'm just saying in the attic

specifically, there was only one thing I found, and it was one quote, and I'm quoting exactly how it was said. I did not make this up. So for the attic, all I have is, quote, let's just say a very well-known paranormal celebrity had an experience up there and refused to go back in. I'm not going to say

who it was. I'll just say that he grabbed his scarf and walked right out. We can neither confirm nor deny it was Bagel Bites, but I sure would like to imagine that, so. Who the hell else has a scarf that they're flinging around? I don't know. Maybe it was Aaron.

Or Nick. Oh, his little minions? His little minions, maybe. They didn't say anything. They said a paranormal celebrity, and, I mean, only one comes to mind. Yeah. So, the scarf threw me, but also I'm not really surprised by it either. No! Oh, my God.

The scarf does not throw me. Okay. Well, anyway, that's all we have for the attic. So, Zach was in the attic yes okay i'll go on record i know you won't i'll go uh in the basement so the basement this is where things start getting extra creepy okay so there are supposedly two different entities who are down there one is very nice one is not uh-oh even when it was a running facility, the basement was avoided at all costs by staff. They did not want to

be there, especially when they started seeing a little boy down there. Apparently there is a shadow figure of a boy running and or hiding. I don't know which is worse. Apparently when he runs... Both. Yes. When you get the combo pack, that's

the worst. Exactly. Apparently, when he runs, he runs as if he's in fear and running away from something. Oh, God. And when he's hiding, obviously, he's trying to hide from whatever he's running from. Oh, God. Cell doors slam on their own. People have heard tapping noises on the cell walls. Apparently, why is, I don't know why that's in the basement, but okay.

Oh, oh, um oh because the basement was also where the hole was oh super people have sensed a malicious presence down there staring at them from the corner of the room uh flashlights have stopped working the worst time for a flashlight to stop working people sense being choked no there's an apparition of a guard with quote sinister vibes that stares at you and sways that's very specific the worst uh people also feel a cold breeze down here and they hear whispers in their ears when nobody's next to them psychics have spoken to a spirit down there that said that they were 14 years old, so it could be the little boy,

who says that inmates cornered him and beat him to death down here. Oh, God. So he could have been a child of a staff member or something like that. There's also one investigation team has caught an EVP of a boy saying, hey. Hey.

And then another... Back at you. And another EVP is saying saying where are you going oh well that's a little worse yeah so then the cell blocks um especially the uh the sixth floor happens to be the most haunted apparently so apparently whatever spirit happens to be in this room there is only one chair in that room and it hates when you touch its chair which sounds like me in like I was going to say five years but more like five minutes I've like if someone's

in my chair like if you didn't call fives get out if someone touches your chicken wings if someone touches your anything really yeah food or comfort don't touch it if it's mine please please manners get you far I literally growl, please don't touch that.

Poor Eva. So, obviously there's a chair in the room and it doesn't like when you move it at all. A lot of people have just picked it up and placed it in a different part of the room. But no matter what, when you leave, you're still on the stairs to

go down and you will hear above you the chair sliding back to its original place i don't like that there was one guy who didn't believe it and so i love when skeptics think that they're going to be way cool and then it doesn't work uh one guy said he was going to go up there and provoke the spirit oh super and i'm sure all of the ghost hunters were like, okay, buddy, do you. Bye. So he went up there and said that he didn't like the chair. He was just saying it in the room.

It's ugly. It's gross. And then he said, I'm going to take the chair away and I'm going to smash it into a bunch of pieces and turn it into firewood. Like, just to piss this thing off. That's very rude. So then after he said that,

something shoved him onto the floor, and he felt burning on his back. Uh-huh. And when he took his shirt off to see what was going on in his back, there were massive welts that looked like big scratches across his whole back. Well, I don't know what the fuck he was expecting, but...

I don't know what he was expecting either. Uh-huh. Apparently not that. So, in the chapel, aka the old torture slash execution room. This is the place where people get grabbed the most. Super. There are also a lot of strange

lights and photos, a lot of unexplained noises, and there are especially spirits seen lingering in doorways.ways sometimes they will scream at you i imagine just like a and they're like like that's truly terrible there's no good version of it but that's the way i see it and you somehow made it even worse for me thank you i don't know what i was picturing but that was not good well that's how i see it and you somehow made it even worse for me thank you i don't know what i was picturing but that was not good well that's how i see it in the chapel so thank you that plus getting grabbed a

lot or just like a recipe for why i won't be there so um there is one last spirit slash demon that deserves a second of attention. His name's Elmo. Stop. Everyone's like, oh. Like, what part of my childhood are you about to ruin? Are you serious? Yeah. And he's named Elmo because he looks like a Muppet.

Oh, so they named him Elmo after Elmo. Yeah. Oh, God. Okay. So apparently he appears in photos, and sometimes when you're by yourself, he appears in the corner as a red glow in the shape of a Muppet. That's such a specific...

You couldn't just say, like, a fuzzy shadow figure. It's like, oh, that's, fuck, Jim Henson right there. Yeah. Absolutely not. In many photos, there's a quote. A lot of people have gotten pictures of this Elmo thing. And, there's a quote. A lot of people have gotten pictures of this Elmo thing. And so there's a quote that people say where, if you see the red glow in your pictures, Elmo's posing.

Tickle me. Woohoo, yeah. And then a growl, please don't touch me. Please don't touch me. Please tickle me. I hate this place. No offense. Please don't touch me. Please don't touch me. Please tickle me. I hate this place. No offense.

So apparently he's like, I imagine like a sorority squat from Elmo or something. Yeah. Yeah. This is, nope. Apparently. I was going to say, this is a college town. It is. Okay.

Well, you guys get the sorority squat. I think. You at least know someone who does the sorority squat in every picture in my case it's elmo so he is allegedly demonic let's just shift gears real quick allegedly allegedly allegedly a demon apparently when after people have taken a picture of it they immediately become very angry and violent. Which, like, I feel like if you have a Polaroid, like, that's the time to, like, really be waving that thing and be like, Oh, who, Christine, are you gonna... Your pupils just dilate, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly. Oh, God.

Apparently, accidents also happen if you see him in a picture. Guests are pushed on the stairs. They have been forcefully struck with something that they can't see. Like a big fuzzy fist. And apparently there's another quote where Q is for

quote. Yeah. Are we doing a new skit? I don't know. Sesame Street? I don't get it. Apparently, if there's a cluster of three red dots. There's three of them.

There's a whole Elmo family. Absolutely not. Fuck that. If there's a cluster of three red dots in one of your pictures, then you will begin to smell a rotten, decaying smell, and then all of your electronics will malfunction. That's it about Elmo. That's terrible.

So none of it's really good. Also in the graveyard, because remember there are over 200 bodies buried there, including the two guards. Oh, I remember. In the graveyard, objects apparently move on their own. Equipment fails, and now it is forbidden to even enter the area. In the old infirmary, there are gusts of wind and closed rooms, so there's no reason for there to be a draft or anything like that.

People also hear disembodied moaning. They see orbs, and this happens to be the room with the highest chance of EMF reading. So if you're trying to chat with the ghost, this is the best place to go. In the library, people have seen Helen gliding across the room, and then objects fall to the floor and move on their own. By the stairs, guests are shoved and their backs are slapped. People have gotten like five stars on their back.

Oh. You can hear a quote, wicked laughter. Oh, no. Oh. Elmo? I have literally, since you mentioned that stupid thing, been picturing it over my shoulder the entire time. Well.

I hate this. Okay. Some also feel a small. the entire time. Well, I hate, I hate this. Okay. Some also feel a small, so even though on the stairs a lot of people get shoved or slapped, apparently there's one out of the several ghosts

that actually is trying to help you up the stairs. Okay. So probably gets a bad rep a lot every time you feel something. It's probably the same one tucking you in. It's like nobody asked for this.

She's like, I am carrying all the weight on my shoulders trying to make this place nice people often feel a small pressure on the small of their backs their arms as if they're being guided up the stairs when they are climbing themselves i don't love that i don't like it but i appreciate it more than getting smacked valid valid and then in the whole um people often feel nauseous they feel like they're being watched they feel breath down their necks they have seen glowing eyes heard shuffling in the halls they've also heard deranged babbling fantastic they have heard growling um please don't touch me yeah i will never forget they've also heard crying and sounds of the cell doors being banged on.

Shadow figures are frequently seen roaming the halls and to a point where tour guides have to often check to make sure they're not missing any guests. Oh, no. There was one story of a tour guide seeing someone running down the hall one way and then coming back and then running and running. And they'd be like, there's no running on this tour. And they went to count all the people in their group

and everyone was there. And they were the only people in the jail. People have caught over 100 different EVPs, many of which you can find online. And visitors are most commonly reporting being scratched, having their hair pulled, or seeing apparitions following them. There is camera evidence of spirits walking through the jail at night and following people

on their tours. And in cell 13, where the guy lit himself on fire, people have walked in and immediately felt numb in their face and arms. Oh. And apparently, he has actually appeared to people still on fire. Okay. Okay. People have...

So, I told you I'd bring it back. People have also witnessed Miss Phoebe. Okay. Okay. People have, so I told you I'd bring it back. People have also witnessed Miss Phoebe. Oh, wait. I miss her. Come back, girl. I miss her so much. People have seen her staring out of windows in the administration office. Okay, well.

And people have even seen her walking on the road between the house and, between her house and the jail. She's like, not again. She's still reporting people poor phoebe there are even people who have said that they have seen her walking on the side of the road and have pulled over to see who she was because she was dressed in a very old fashion and she has asked to hitch a ride with them to the reformatory and then when you go to either say yes or no and you look back up at her she's gone that's terrifying also how does she i feel like if you're in the anyway i don't know

i was just thinking if you're from the 1890s i would not get in like a car and like trust it but apparently she's she's watched technology evolve i guess anyway that is the story of the Mansfield Reformatory. Oh my god. Anyway, thank you guys. Alright, hi guys. Do you want to hear about crime stuff? Oh, good!

Because it's too late. you're already here. So I... last week I got really excited and I was like oh my gosh I have the best story for Columbus. I've been saving this for ages and I started doing the notes and I was like none of the links are purple which means I haven't clicked on them before which means I haven't done the story and I did a control f on our stupid episode guide and I didn't see it that's how I do it too yeah yeah look after 200 episodes we don't like 100 episodes we don't remember we have no clue so I did my notes and then somehow in my gut I was like oh I should search our email to see if anyone has I would literally finish them and I was like oh I should search our email to see if anyone has. I literally finished them. And I was like, oh, I should check our email because maybe somebody has sent some interesting fun facts in. And do you have a drink? And why not?

And I saw a bunch of emails that were like, oh, yeah, like how you talked about in episode 68 about this topic. And I went, no, they must. All 11 people must be wrong. Well, they weren't. And so I will not be doing that story. So I did a new story. So the story that I was going to cover, which I did in episode 68, if you want to go listen to it, is the disappearance of Brian Schaefer. Yes.

And for some godforsaken reason, I got just as amped and excited. And then I went back. I was like, there's no way. And I went back and listened. And I was like, well, I was in Columbus this weekend so I'm gonna do a story for Columbus and it's about Brian Schaefer and I was like I don't know you're like I hate myself I hate myself and I think what happened is when I searched our little episode guide you know my name's Schaefer I wrote it like that it's not spelled that way I think I think maybe that's what happened so

oops had to go back to the drawing board um so I'm sorry about that but episode 68 go check it out we appreciate you doing the notes twice though so I think that was the most painful but I do I appreciate that although it's very very bad that I did the notes twice and somehow didn't remember that I had literally done the notes already but thank you very much for the applause so anyway I went back and did a new story and this is the story of the Circleville letter writer ooh

okay alright I'll take it I don't know what that is and I've actually known about this for a while I'm very excited about this one it's very weird and very creepy so okay let's fucking go let's hear it out man this was also oh thanks guys this was also kind of like an angry note taking because i was like i just did all these notes now i'm gonna make these like extra good so we'll see we're gonna be like

weirdly passive aggressive notes like to yourself oh yeah okay 25 miles so 25 miles from here uh is brian schaefer oh that would be a great ending to the story though if i found him that'd been way cool i didn't find him um right i'm sorry that was rude just keep going they'll forget cool so 25 miles from here in circleville ohio yay uh so remember how i covered the watcher house in new jersey yes okay so if you listen to a recent episode a recent because i don't know which one it was but i covered the watcher house in new jersey probably one of the creepiest ones I've done well this is actually its predecessor and is considered like the only other story that's kind of like the same pattern as the Watcher House oh I'm so excited uh yay congratulations congratulations you did it you did it first

Elmo and now this whoo um I want to give credit real quick to the lineup the subreddit unresolved mysteries which goes to my apple watch eight times a day and if anyone's talking to me and I'm just going like this on my that's why um sorry mom and historicmysteries.com and my favorite murder who did a really good episode on this as well. So, and four people have heard of that. Okay, cool. So, right. We're going back to the 1970s. You remember.

I do. Yes. In spirit. What a good year. So, in 1977, in Circleville, Ohio, school bus driver Mary Gillespie began receiving anonymous threatening letters postmarked from Columbus.

The letters were written in this really creepy block font lettering that looks almost Zodiac-like, like just very specifically lined up in grid form and all in capital letters. Very spooky. Sounds very organized, though. Very organized. Part of me is like very impressed you're like that yes i'd be like oh grid like yeah all right to the millimeter ah yeah was it you oh god where were you in 1977 uh right so this these letters start coming and they're

written in this creepy block font and the letters seem to know a lot about Mary's life and her family and how many children she had and what their names were and where they went to school etc etc etc so they the letters also told her that her house was being watched it said quote I know where you live I've been observing your house and I know how many children you have and what their names are oh no this is no joke please take it seriously I take what seriously so far just like she's being watched that I'm yes okay letter this aggressive letter I know you live there take this seriously I know you holy shit poor children that's true I feel like that's what I would write my mother

when I like was mad at her and I would like slide her a note and it was like i am mad at you take this seriously i want more candy take me serious i mean it yeah yeah i feel like it was a little bit so far so far i feel still safe yes yeah well good luck so the letter also accused mary of having an affair with the local school superintendent, whose name was Gordon Massey, and the letters warned her to come clean about her affair or else. Dot, dot, dot. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. That one makes me feel less safe.

A little bit. So over the next few weeks, Mary received in more letters, all with similar accusations and more personal information about her life and her family. At first, she hid them away and she kept them kind of hidden from her family. She didn't want to freak anyone out. She was she started growing more and more concerned, but kind of kept calm. She was also a school bus driver, by the way. So she was always like around in the school district, among children, among students.

And she tried to keep calm and not cause panic right especially in a small town but then one day uh mary's husband ron also received a mysterious letter in the mail oh boy and this letter was also postmarked from columbus and it was a little more blunt and it said to ron that he had to put an end to Mary's affair with the school superintendent or he would die wait what so it's his job to stop his wife's affair on him or else his wife who's cheating will die oh he will die so it's like his fault if like he dies because his wife's cheating on him correct this sounds right you have to remember the block lettering. Right, right. Right, I hear you. So it didn't make any sense. So she's getting all these letters threatening her,

and she's like, I'm just going to put these aside. Then he gets a letter being like, well, she's not listening to me, so you have to end her affair or else you're going to die. That's so much pressure. Yeah. I mean, first of all, if I found out that I was being cheated on, that's its own issue. And then it's like, now you deal with it or else you die it's like wait a minute I'm busy emotionally right now I'm still

grieving hold on so Mary so Ron obviously approaches Mary and is like what the fuck is this letter and she's like I am not having an affair I am not cheating on you um I have no idea what this letter is talking about. But of course, the gossip spread. It's not a huge town. So Mary's reputation was suddenly under attack. She continued to deny the affair. And she and Ron tried their best to ignore the threats and kind of move on with their lives. But then another letter showed up. And that letter read, it was also addressed to Ron, the husband, and it said, Julespy, you have had two weeks and you have done nothing.

Admit the truth and inform the school board. If not, I will broadcast it on CB radio, posters, signs, and billboards until the truth comes out. Damn, but am I still going to die? Good question. I'd be like, post it wherever, man. You're like, does the previous threat still stand or have you moved on per our previous conversation am i alive or am i not about to be alive so in the letter it said posted on cbs and like a lot of people wrote it as like oh i will share it on cbs turns out it meant like cb radio like CBs. But I was like, ooh, CBS, he has connections.

No. I was like, damn, executive producer. Okay. He meant he would literally get a walkie talkie and say it to some truck drivers. I hear you. Is what he meant. Breaker, breaker. Breaker.

We know about truck driving. That's all right. Then I'd get on there and be like, um, here's the 411. So like, I hope you're sitting down. Scandal. Scandal.

I hate you. You know, when my mom was like 10, she had like a radio name, like a truck. What was it? It was something like bubblegum pop girl. I don't know

something stupid it sounds like an username it was her version of a screen name yeah what was yours again oh shit not me in front of people um i had the the first one was one of those like aol made it for me like because i was lame well because i on the tennis team i was the only left-handed person so they just called me lefty. And then I really like SpongeBob. Oh, right. I remember this. AOL created Lefty Sponge.

So that just became my thing. I like that. Anyway, add me on AIM. Catch you there in the middle of the night when there's nothing else to do. Don't worry. Em has their away message up in Comic Sans. You won't be able to reach them anyway. With squiggles and asterisks.

Obviously. Mine still probably has, like, Green Day lyrics in it. Anyway, where are we? I don't know. A whole other planet, it seems. Sorry. We're back. Okay.

So Mary and Ron are like, okay, you can tell it on a walkie-talkie. That're back. Okay. So Mary and Ron are like, okay, you can tell it on a walkie talkie. That's okay. Tell, tell lefty sponge and popsicle girl or whatever the hell. Two generations of awful, cringeworthy names. I don't, to be fair, I don't think I've ever heard of a cool AIM name in 2019. Like, I don't know that anyone's today is still. I'm always crazy.

444. Shut up. Stop. It was always with the Z. Thank you. Oh, no. Okay. So, right.

So they were like, well, we're not going to tell anybody because we don't care if you broadcast it. And so instead they only told three people. They told Ron's sister, Ron's sister's husband, so his brother-in-law, and his name was Paul Freshore, and then Paul's sister. So, right. Hold on. Ron's sister and her husband, and then the husband's sister. Got it. Right. Got it. Okay.

Okay. Okay. So the brother-in-law was Paul Freshdorf. So the three of them come over, and the group tries to get to the bottom of the whole thing. They tell them, like, listen, don't leave the room with this information, but we're trying to figure out who this is. He's threatening us. And at this point, all we know is that they decide uh so that ron and mary decide they think they know who the author of the letters is and they decide the answer to the whole thing

is to write a threatening letter back no that's i i disagree yes hindsight right right yikes so when i say back it wasn't like the letters have a return address, but they had decided they thought they knew who it was. So they were like, we're just going to send that person threatening letters. It's a real risk. Yeah. That's bold. Can you imagine? You're like, wait, I just saw you at the church fair.

Why are you writing these mean letters to me? In block letters. Yeah. So they do. They write four or five letters to this person. And she explains, Mary explains, we thought we'd scare the guy. We sent him only four or five letters. There was no violence in them or anything.

Just that we knew who he was and what he was doing. And then we sent him the letters. Okay. Simple as that. Cool. So for a while him the letters okay what was that cool uh so for a while the letters actually stopped so they stopped receiving letters and they were like okay maybe we kind of like maybe it worked and it worked things started to get back to normal but then on august 19 1977 uh the phone rang at the gillespie house and ron answered and although his family never found out what was said or who was on the

other line ron flew into a fit of rage he told his children he was going out to confront the person who had written the letters he grabbed his pistol and he jumped in his truck and drove out of the driveway okay only leap from writing letters big leap got. The phone rings. This is step two. However, only minutes later, Ron was found dead in his pickup truck. Minutes? Minutes. Wow. At the intersection.

Wow. I think it was two intersections down the street from them. He had driven his car into a tree. And when the police investigated the crash, they noted that strangely Ron's gun had been fired once before the crash, although the bullet was never recovered. So they don't know what the hell happened between the house and there, but that his gun had been fired and then he had been crashed into a tree and had passed away. But so the sheriff was investigating this,

and then he suddenly changed his stance and declared that Ron's blood alcohol alcohol limit was one and a half times the legal limit making it an accidental death so they ruled it checked it accidental death but his family and friends were like he's never drunk alcohol he doesn't drink at all he's a teetotaler and like we were with him that afternoon when he answered the phone like he had absolutely not been drinking. A little fishy. Right. So it was a little odd. But again, the sheriff said, oh, he was drunk. So case closed. So unfortunately, all this did was piss off the mysterious letter writer because he wanted to make a statement. And then the sheriff was like, case closed. It was an accident. Oh, I see. So the letter writer started to write letters all over the place to local Circleville residents. So not just Mary, but everyone in town.

And the letters all explained that Ron's death had been a cover up and that local citizens should not fault for the story that he had been drunk, that the sheriff had lied and that he himself had killed Ron. Oh, OK. So one of the letters was even sent to Mary's daughter uh at home and it continued so the letter that was sent to Mary's daughter said your mother is having an affair with the school superintendent he's still on this thing again uh Gordon Massey I feel like at this point we don't care about that like yes it's like bigger fish to fry there are bigger issues at hand right so her poor daughter gets this letter like, your mom's having an affair with Gordon Massey.

And she's like, I don't know what to do. So Mary sees this and she finally breaks down and admits that, yes, she is having an affair with Gordon Ramsey. But what a scandal. 411. Get your CB radio. I have a lot. P popsicle girl has a lot to say girl come on okay wow that would really be like the plot twist of the century wouldn't it shit i wish that was the story it's not oh well well we're all gonna imagine gordon ramsay now

for the rest of the story that could be fun it could be a good screenplay eva write that down that might be good i'll work on it later so right so she gordon ramsay god damn it okay so she does admit that yes she had been having an affair with gordon massey however she insists that their romance did not begin until after the letters had started coming accusing her of being in an affair. Weird. She said, I didn't sleep with him until after Ron died. And everyone was like, you're...

It's like, well, someone's a fortune teller. Someone's very bad at handwriting and is also a fortune teller. So after that, the letters did not stop. They kept going. They continued to arrive for her kids, her neighbors, other Circleville residents. The letters were incessant. And then one day, years later in 1983, Mary was driving her school bus, and suddenly signs start popping up along her school bus route. And she is finally fed up.

She sees one that says something against her daughter and like threatens her daughter's life. So she gets off the bus and she begins to rip down the sign. And as she starts to pull it down, she notices that it is attached to a string. Oh, shit. Yeah, it's really scary. So she sees a string and she like freezes and kind of ducks out of the way. She follows the string to a hidden box and when she kind of looks into the box she notices that there is a gun pointing at her and it was a booby trap

where if you pulled the sign down a certain way the gun would have shot directly at her height level into her head so in front of the children by the way in front of her school bus she's driving a school bus exactly she's driving a school bus exactly that's such a good and then like how would they have gotten home yeah i know like not like in the in the i i meant more in like the fucked up way of like how do they what do they do at that point cb radio right right bubble gum girl come in right emergency we need you oh man but yes it's terrible so i mean fortunately she was able to avoid it she didn't pull this down the way that it would have triggered the booby trap literally dodged a bullet

yes very exciting i thought they were laughing at your pun. I don't know. I'm confused. But yeah, so she fortunately was not killed by it, but she obviously called the police, and they took a look, and the serial number on the gun was mostly rubbed off, and yet they were still able to track the number down anyway. There were enough digits kind of left on the gun to track it down. And when they did track it down, they were shocked to discover that the gun belonged to none other than Ron's brother-in-law, Paul Freshour.

One of the three guys that... Yep. Remember when I said his name four times? Yep. Just in case you forgot. I'm learning your tricks too, Christine. They're very subtle, so... Paul.

Remember Paul? I'm not going to say any of subtle, so. Paul. Remember Paul? I'm not going to say any of their other names except Paul. So the gun belonged to Paul. Now, obviously, when they asked Paul, he was like, oh, my gosh, my gun was stolen so long ago, I have no idea how it got there. And they were like, what a weird coincidence. And he had also just recently gotten divorced from Ron's sister. But believe it or not, he had an airtight alibi. And so it was extremely difficult for the police to go any further.

But obviously it was still his gun. And because that was the only solid lead police had at this point, they talked Paul somehow into taking a handwriting test in which they were basically like, here's the letter that they got now try to write it down in the same block letters okay like copy it down okay yeah it's a good test right yeah can you just like intentionally not do that yeah you'd think well okay so when I was a child on the school bus also listen I uh I was kind of a butthead sometimes um and my friend Alyssa was like making me mad so I pretended I was like seven or eight and I pretended that she had um

a valance a secret valentine and I wrote her a letter that said I love you Alyssa and then I put it in her locker oh my god I know it was mean I know it's okay on the bus she like knew it was one of us and so she made us all write it down like she's like everybody copy it down and I was like okay and I like did it completely differently and she's like well it can't be you and I was like obviously I don't know if she knows that you're so sneaky wow you really really dodged that one. This motherfucker failed it. They were like, oh my God, your handwriting's very similar. Oh, I did not see that coming.

I was eight and I passed this stupid test that I invented. I know. I'm sorry. I don't know if she knows that. Well, she does maybe now. Well, anyway, my bad. That wasn't very nice of me um so they were like well it looks like it's pretty similar so we're gonna arrest you anyway um literally just be i mean they had the gun evidence so that was a lot but then that and the handwriting was enough to arrest him so

on october 24th 1983 um he, Paul went on trial for the attempted murder of Mary Gillespie. Although he was actually never charged with the threatening letters, they became a crucial part of the evidence against him, and a handwriting expert

testified that he was indeed the letter writer. Mary also testified that she believed he was the writer after his wife, who he had just divorced, visited her

with the same suspicion shortly before she had found the booby the same suspicion, like, shortly before she had found the booby trap, saying, like, I think maybe my ex is the one who had been writing these letters all along. Paul's boss also testified that he was not at work on the day that the booby trap was found. Although Paul's

fingers were not found on the letters, gun, or booby trap, a search of Paul's house also failed to turn up any more corroborating evidence, including ammunition or the gun or anything to write the letters or the signs. Mary Gillespie testified that shortly after their divorce, Paul's ex-wife Karen had said, oh, I already said that. Shh. Eva, cut that part out.

I just wrote it again with more detail. Oops. Why didn't I skip the first one? You wrote it with passion is what you did. I told you. I was very angry when I wrote these notes. Yeah. Okay.

So Paul's ex-wife, Karen, confided in her that she believed Paul might have been the author of the letters. And Paul's response was, so Paul, who's now in jail for this, his response was, if Karen really believed I had done this, why did she never mention it in divorce court? Which is actually a very good point because they were going through like a nasty divorce um years later it was discovered that a key piece of evidence was withheld at trial and that was that 20 minutes before mary discovered the booby trap another school bus driver who had been driving the same route reported seeing the same same sign, but seeing a yellow El Camino parked at that spot, along with a sandy-haired man who did not match Paul's description. He did match the description of another man that Karen Freshour, Paul's ex,

had been dating at the time that she and Paul had gotten divorced. Ooh. And Paul did not own a yellow El camino but karen's boyfriend did interesting shoe prints also were found at the scene um which did not at all match paul's shoe size very odd as well um paul again had an alibi for most of the day however he never took the stand in his defense although he proclaimed his innocence the entire time he was convicted and he was given the max sentence of 7 to 25 years. And he went to prison for it. So perhaps the most compelling evidence of all

is that after Paul was sent to jail, the letters kept coming. Yikes. Oh, no. And there were hundreds of them now. What? And they were taunting and they were saying, nice try. You didn't get me. And they were also postmarked from Columbus, which is not where he was in jail.

Oh, no. And they made sure to check that nobody was coming to pick up the letters to bring them to a post office to drop them off. So he was not writing the letters is basically the moral of the story. And he's still in jail? No, so he was in jail at this point when the letters kept coming. Okay, okay. And it was 90 miles away, so it was not him.

So Sheriff Radcliffe became convinced that Paul was somehow sending the letters from prison, giving them to somebody who was driving them to Lima, Ohio, who was then mailing them. And so he was constant Lima. I know. I don't know. I'm not from this country.

I can't make that excuse in Ohio. Shit. I didn't ever really leave Cincinnati. I'm sorry. Okay. Lima. Sure. Sure.

Lima bean. That's what I meant. I was testing you. Okay. Lima. Sure. Sure. Lima bean. That's what I meant. I was testing you. Okay. So, right. So, um, da-da-da-da-da. So, right. So he is monitoring Paul day in, day out to see if he's somehow sending these letters.

And in response, Paul is placed in solitary confinement because the sheriff is so pissed that he can't catch him sending the letters that he's like, fine, then I'll put you in solitary confinement. And Paul's just like, I'm not doing it. And I also don't own a yellow El Camino. I don't know what to tell you. I can't even imagine being terrible. It's so sad. So he was denied access to writing materials.

OK, sure. He was constantly monitors, and yet the letters continued. And even though the warden at the prison maintained it was impossible for Paul to be sending these letters, he was denied parole at his first hearing because the sheriff was so convinced

that it had been him and wanted someone to be in jail for the crime. And that was in December 1990. A few days after he was denied parole, Paul himself received a letter at the jail. Oh, shit. The letter mocked him for being put away for a crime he didn't commit.

That's so fucked up. Paul just can't get a break. that point i would just shrug and sure i'd be right what do you at this point it's like well sure bring it on um and the letter itself said quote now when are you going to believe you aren't going to get out of here i told you two years ago when we set them up they stay set up don't you listen at all and that was all the letter said and he was like i don't even know like i just didn't do it um so he ended up serving 10 years for attempted murder uh he was eventually released in may of 1994 and by then the reports of the letters had almost slowed to a stop but they had been going on for years during the time he was in

jail paul attempted to clear his name for years after his release. He wrote a letter to the FBI asking them to investigate Ron Gillespie's death in his truck, but nothing ever came of it, and unfortunately he passed away in 2012, never having cleared his name. Very sad. Other suspects included the son of the superintendent. You know him, Gordon Ramsey. Right, right. Oh God, don't sue me.

Okay. As if Gordon Ramsey listens to this. Anyway, other suspects included the son of Gordon Massey, the superintendent that Mary had confessed to having an affair with. Another suspect was a jealous co-worker of hers who had been infatuated with her. So both of them could be likely had a motive of wanting to end the affair. And then another suspect was Ron Gillespie's sister, the one who had divorced Paul, who had been dating the guy with the El Camino. had divorced Paul who had been dating the guy with the El Camino and she was a suspect as well because uh she had also tried to frame Ron after and after the divorce and say like they ruined her relationship and it was just a very nasty divorce that they had so she was another kind of person

of interest uh six months after Paul's release from prison in 1994 a journalist named Martin Yant did a story for Unsolved Mysteries in which he produced a number of theories and none of them involved Paul so like he listed several and he was like it's just not Paul he didn't do it like we can't even make up a way that Paul was the one who did it which is so sad oh that's awful yeah while Unsolved Mysteries was working on the story, their office received an anonymous letter. Shut up. Yeah, and the letter was signed by the Circleville writer, and it read,

Forget Circleville, Ohio. I didn't say it, they did. Forget Circleville, Ohio. Do nothing to hurt Sheriff Ratcliffe. If you come to Ohio, you El Cicos will pay. Oh. Signed, the Circleville letter writer. So Martin Yant, he was like, well, it definitely wasn't Paul because Paul is dead now.

Right. And the list of suspects that he had, there was never anything. There was never enough to kind of bring any of them to trial. And so as of yet, the case of the Circleville letter writer remains unsolved, but that is all I have for you guys today. That was awesome. And I thought you were trying to hold my hand.

I was like, oh, so nice. But thank you. I'm sorry that I tried to do Brian Schaefer and then already did it. Schaffer, is it? Who knows?

Good thing we didn't cover it. Good thing I never ever did it in episode 68. Uh-oh. Thank you guys so much for having us. Thank you. I'm so happy. I drank too much wine i'm sorry i was like oh we're getting cozy again we're having a good time thank you columbus Outro Music