And That's Why We Drink - E239 A Trash Pile of Ghostly Magazines and the Paranormal D.A.R.E. Program

Episode Date: September 5, 2021

It's episode 239 and we've got some big stories for you! First Em covers the history of famed paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren (including the Conjuring universe). Then Christine brings us the first in a two part series on Amanda Knox. Also, Eva may or may not still be in the Zoom waiting room... and that's why we drink! 

well hey everyone we're not letting eva into the recording i feel so sneaky and powerful oh poor eva she's probably like what do they need me what do they what are they we're just we're just talking trash we're just keeping her out of the loop um so what happened was eva's car broke down i guess or something bad happened and she had to go bring her car in and she's like i'll make the day worse we're just saying you're not even welcome to the party sorry people with broken car batteries aren't allowed in um and so she's like oh i'll just hop in the zoo but we were recording some ads and we were like well i'll leave her in the waiting room for a little while we finished ads and now she's the waiting room seems to be empty so i think she i think she gave up on us she took the hint yeah

she was like i think i'm gonna go get lunch now what is wrong with you people yeah so now we just awkwardly are not allowing her in because i don't know how to um so sorry eva it's fine also hi christine i haven't seen you in a hot minute i've missed you emothy i missed you so much cool marvel background emma's like em shows up as like oh i had to order some stuff to like make sure i can record because i'm still in virginia and then em shows up with the most professional looking setup i've ever seen this is not very it's literally a room divider that's just i thought it was like a full-on wallpaper like it looks really cool my my like like i don't i i don't want to say ocd because i have not been totally officially diagnosed but the little spaces in between aren't evenly

spaced out and it's freaking me out so i don't feel like it's totally professional but thank you it's uh this was my room divider in grad school not kindergarten when uh when i was in boston i lived in this little tiny studio and this was my room divider so my bed felt like it wasn't in my living room oh i had one of those too um and then i would i think it was just like a clothing rack and i would put it up be like this is my is my wall. And everyone's like, that's not a wall. But well, it's actually it was at the BU bookstore, which is so weird. It was at like the merch store. Oh, that's cool. I don't know what the deal was, but they had. So I bought it for Boston.

And then when I came back from Boston, it's literally just been sitting in my bedroom for like six years. But think about how our paths cross. Maybe I'm just getting too hormonal. But think about how our paths cross where you were at the bu bookstore my apartment was underneath the bu bookstore like attached to it yeah and you were buying your like room divider and i was sitting in my like fake room divider and we were i was like walking all over your big head i was just only a couple feet up stomping around upstairs uh yeah and also like i had to like care

this was the first time i mean it was you it was literally across the street so i really don't get to make this seem like it was a big deal but it was the first time i like lived in the city and i had to like carry something massive oh yeah in a city to my apartment instead of just like putting it in a car and i felt so silly carrying this big fucking thing through the street but uh it was like the first time i was like oh my god this is city living oh yeah i remember i went to trader joe's and i was like the first time I was like, oh my god, this is city living. Oh, yeah. I remember I went to Trader Joe's and I was like, I have to carry these bags home. What is this? Anyway, no, for people wondering, this is not my actual home in Los Angeles. I... Allison would never allow that. She would not be happy with it. She'd allow it, but she would definitely have... I'm just kidding. She totally would. She would allow it but not not in a good mood

you'd pay for it maybe i last minute decided that i was gonna stay in i didn't even plan so last time i saw you i wasn't even supposed to be in virginia no i know so you're like how did i get i don't know what are you doing here where are you so like three weeks ago i haven't been home in like three weeks i went to south carolina with allison's family for their like family trip and very long story short my mom was actually in north carolina at the same time i was in south carolina and so she said if you cancel your flight and find a way to north carolina instead of going to la we could hang out i could you know i drove here so i could drive you back to virginia you can hang out. I could, you know, I drove here so I could drive you back to Virginia.

You can hang out in Virginia for a little bit. And then I only planned on being in Virginia for like two days. It's now been like a week. So anyway, I needed, and by the way, actually the way I got to, I met my mom in North Carolina. Did you know there's a massive rental car shortage right now?

Yes, only because I didn't. Yeah, it's bad and they're so so expensive i found out the hard way but and by hard way i mean i canceled my flight to la and then i reserved a rental car which apparently only means you're like calling dibs if a car's available but there wasn't a car available you don't get a car oh fuck they didn't tell me until i got there and they're like oh yeah there is no car for you and i was like but i reserved one and they were like that's not how they're like yeah you and all these other people oh my god so i got stranded in the carolinas and allison's already left by now i'm just like on my own with my suitcase walking around the streets and i called like 30 places and i was i even thought like what if i take an uber an hour into another county

would they have something or what if i took three ubers to get all the way to north carolina i ended up deciding on getting a u-haul which is technically a rental car oh wow and i took a but i'm not the only one who had this idea and so the only like available u-haul they had was like one of the massive ones so like i feel like i should have needed another license to drive. Oh no. So I drove that all the way to North Carolina. Are you serious? Yeah.

Wow. It was pretty, it was a fun little adventure by myself. Did you just have your tiny little away suitcase in the back? I literally had one suitcase in the front seat and a massive empty trunk. I feel like you could have used that to your advantage, gone like antique shopping or something i really should have i already had like the ability to lug a bunch of stuff or you could have charged people to like move i could have i also could have just gotten a mattress just like slept in there like i could have made a whole thing of it but anyway so i started in south carolina and planned on only being there but i found my way to virginia and

i haven't left and now you're stuck in your childhood home which happens I feel like every time I go home I'm like I'll just hang out a little longer you get comfortable well I'm in the danger zone now because this is not the mic that I usually record on that's right got my own recording stuff for Fredericksburg now so now I'm now when I go home I don't have the excuse of like oh I gotta get back to LA because I have to record and all my stuff's there. Now I just have all this stuff. Like a full on studio setup here. Wow.

It's going to be easier for us too for scheduling because now I can. You're on East Coast time. That does make it a lot easier. I'm not going to lie. We're kicking Eva out. You're on East Coast time. Like this is getting really batshit crazy. It's getting crazy.

I don't know what we're doing but we're like turning things upside down anyway it's been a really chaotic three weeks because every couple days i think i'm going home and then i find and then i change my mind so it's it's become a big thing but anyway that's why i drink why do you drink are you only you're only two states away from me now i think kentucky to virginia i think there's just west virginia between us. Yeah. Aw. That's true. Aw. I am. I'm waving to you. Yeah. We've got Tennessee, North Carolina, and West Virginia surrounding us.

Yeah. I've got Tennessee and West Virginia. So we're sort of close. We're snuggling. We're trying to weave in there through the borders. There's somebody in between us. Rude. I know.

Ugh. Lordy. But hi. I miss you. I miss you too. How's the baby? Oh my god. my god well you know i know some people are like i don't want to hear about the pregnancy which i'm like okay fine but otherwise we get to hear you get to hear about our loud neighbors or our glasses being broken so i'm like you know

what whatever just like news flash to people the baby's gonna like be around in a much bigger way i think some most people are have been lovely but you know not everybody but that's okay um so i'm just gonna say one quick thing which is that i went to the doctor today and the baby is completely sideways so my doctor is that bad yeah because okay they're supposed to be head down by now because like if they're gonna come out they gotta not be sideways so are we looking at a C-section situation? That's the potential option unless I can make them like flip a roo. So we'll see. Can you just like take your belly and just kind of like. So they actually do that.

They actually do like turn. It's like a, I think it's called CSV or C, I think. And yeah, they can like manually try to turn the baby, but it only works like 60% of the time. Apparently it's kind of painful. So I don't know they're doing an ultrasound next week to like figure out if it's but he was like have a talk with your child i was like oh okay have a talk have a talk okay how about i'll have a talk too put the microphone put the headphones on change switch around maybe you know it's not the baby's fault they probably got your big ass head so it's just can't it can't get there my mom said that i was also uh breech and my i was face up which is

also not good so i was a c-section too so i'm like maybe that's genetic but anyway i was a little bit of both because apparently i uh my head got out and then i was too big and so the doctors like shoved me back in what and then they did a c-section wait what do you mean i couldn't get out i couldn't get out i was i was born 24 inches i was a two foot tall baby that's heinous and i don't think my my mom bless her couldn't shove out my shoulders so i think they were like well let's do it quick oh god i'm a little bit of both fun fact that's horrifying and then well i won't say the rest it's kind of graphic but i anyway yeah see this is what people don't want for me now hem's doing it so there you suck it everybody anyway i it was a big fucking baby we'll spin it that way

i was pretty big too i was like I think almost 10 you were three weeks late I know I know I was bound to be gigantic yeah I was like 10 pounds anyway point being you know I'm just like I knew the baby was sideways I could feel it and I kept saying that because I was like I'm being punched on both sides like kicked and punched at the same time and no one believed me and I'm like well I told you because they're like well 95% of babies are their correct way and I was like I can almost guarantee you mine will not be just knowing um let's start let's start right now doc this baby's not gonna be let's start there yeah the average two steps back baby yeah don't set your expectations so high um anyway but yeah so all good I went to Connecticut for my beautiful mother-in-law through like a really sweet baby shower and it was so nice and

fun and like i don't know no i just feel like no one's ever done something so nice for me before or for i don't know it was like really special and um lovely and there was a hurricane but we avoided the hurricane and uh survived and now i'm back home and i don't know you really do have the mother-in-law of a lifetime i'm like she she is i can't think of someone who i know i've said before like describe people as like a peach but like she is a peach like she's the sweetest just like on top of shit but not in like an you know not in like an in-your-face way just like so on top of it always so warm so loving yes and has six children who are all just like well adjusted and normal i'm like you really found like the brady bunch it's very odd it's yeah and i've definitely dated people where in the past i'm

like are these going to be my in-laws oh no oh no you know so i get the i get the like not having good in-laws thing but like wow wow she's just like such a gem so i'm just very thankful i got to see lisa and everybody and all blaze's siblings and Anyway, so we were very close to each other briefly then because I was driving through West Virginia. Ooh. So I waved. I was on the east. I waved too.

I waved back. Don't worry. I know. I saw you. A chill went down my spine. I didn't know why. You hid under the covers. You were driving by.

Anyway, that's all I've got, Amethy. Just somebody please pray that my child turns itself upside down because I'm not, you know, I'm not feeling this getting kicked on both sides thing it's not great fair enough fair enough um sending good vibes to you and the little parasite who doesn't seem so little anymore the hellion in my belly and yes the hellion in your belly and one day there'll be the hellion out of your belly it's gonna be one day in like four weeks you can't process it no we've only got four weeks left to uh make bets on what this baby's gonna look like i hope it hope it has your little dimples but i hope it has blaze's eyes oh nice eyes blaze some good eyes you know what you should do is do like a little um

a sketch yes okay like i'll'll put little horns on their forehead. It's going to be so sweet. You can describe it to the sketch artist. Like, there were these horns coming out and these sharp teeth. There was a slit in the tongue. It was crazy. It was scary. Hooves everywhere.

And it looked just like the baby. It looked just like mama. Okay, so. Here's my story for this week. Can't wait. Diving in as quickly as I can. So this is a two-parter. I didn't plan on it being a two-parter, but it just turned into a lot of information.

And this, I don't know how people are going to feel about this because it's not spooky in any way, but it's the history of something famously spooky okay and the second one is going to be even less spooky it's going to be more why are you setting up the next episode to be not spooky because it's more true crimey oh that's spooky to me i hope everyone likes these but i have i have gotten a lot of vague tweets and requests for this. And I don't know if I'm giving you what you wanted because I didn't really get any more except the topic. And I don't know what direction you wanted me to go. But this is what we're doing.

Well, it's better than, I mean, it's not better than, but it's, I mean, you did black holes one time. I'll just put it out there. I did. And you know what? Sadly, that was the one that everyone says is like their favorite episode and I was like yeah I've gotten so many people writing and being like the black holes episode was my favorite really that was an accident yeah honestly if we do like a science episode a science

podcast they're all gonna regret saying that because like it was a one one and done one hit wonder on your part I think I like to think that people just thought it was very precious that i somehow found a way to make something spooky when it actually wasn't spooky i had a great time listening to it because it was different you know and like what's true what so what is it what's the topic so this is the history of ed and lorraine warren and the conjuring universe oh the conjuring universe wow okay like the conjuring cinematic universe yeah okay this is exciting it sounds spooky i mean so this one's gonna mainly be a biography on ed and lorraine warren and then the second part is the more scandalous situations which i think your ooh is gonna turn turn into ooh. Yeah, probably.

So we'll worry about that next week. But this is the part you're allowed to be excited about because nothing controversial comes up in it. I feel like you, like walking on glass, you know, trying to be. Hey, I felt like you in the part where I'm talking about scandals because I was like, oh, God, like the last people I want to insult are like famed paraps Paris psychologists and all this. So. OK, so this is part one of Ed and Lorraine Warren.

So this episode, most of my information came from YouTube videos as well as a documentary on Discovery Plus. By the way, Christine, thank you for letting me use your account. Oh, you're so welcome, butthead. Is that what I called you? Poophead? Poophead. Yeah. I didn't ask you either if I me use your account. Oh you're so welcome butthead is that what I called you poophead? Poophead yeah I didn't ask you either if I could uh use the account I just assumed poophead was still an active name. Excuse me poophead is active and waiting for your arrival always. Well poophead had a good time last night watching this documentary it's called

The Devil's Road and it was like the true story of Lorraine Warren and so that was a lot of the basic information I got. The second episode that I'm going to do on this, I got a lot from The Hollywood Reporter. Oh, OK. Because they did an expose in 2017. I love an expose. I love an expose. So you know me on drama.

Oh, yeah. In case those of you do not know, Ed and Lorraine Warren, I have talked about them a lot on the show. They are, I would say, the most famous paranormal investigators. They started back in like the 60s and they were known to be on almost every famous case throughout the 70s and 80s. They're a married couple. Ed is a demonologist and just super fascinated with this stuff. And some would say he's an expert in this. And Lorraine herself is a clairvoyant medium.

And together they just took on every paranormal case that came their way, especially in New England because they lived in Connecticut. So they also worked on allegedly around 10,000 cases during their time i don't know if that's like they were heavily involved in 10 000 cases or if they were just somehow consulting sure in some way their adventures their ghost adventures some might say um it inspired the oh no the police are coming that's a trademark phrase you know he's like trademarked the shit out of that sorry i meant i meant the the spirit quests um so uh everything that ed and lorraine's legacy uh has been inspired the conjuring series the horror movies uh there are several conjuring conjuring movies there's three called the conjuring as as The Nun. There's the Annabelle trilogy. La Llorona is also one, which I have covered La Llorona myself.

Annabelle I've covered. I have their episode numbers as I talk about them. So for our show. So if you want to go back and listen to these in better detail, you can go check out those episodes. So anyway, the fun fact, The Conjuring series grossed over a billion dollars already oh my god behind the godzilla movies it is the second most successful horror franchise whoa and i also like to call it the conjuring cinematic universe because much like what marvel has done all of the conjuring movies tie into one another and all of them at least most of them star patrick wilson and vera formiga as ed and lorraine warren and oh i didn't know that yeah

i've never seen any of those movies that you listed so they're all they're also very well done horror movies well i'm never gonna watch them so don't even try everybody not gonna happen fun fact in the conjuring one lorraineraine Warren actually had a cameo in the movie. Really? That's fun. So Lorraine, while she was alive, she was heavily involved in the production of the films, but Ed actually never lived to see one of the movies. So I think she felt responsible for doing it justice for him.

Sure. So the Conjuring universe comes from the warner brothers company or their division called new line and a lot of times these stories were quote based on a true story of the warrens so i'm only telling you about the conjuring universe because warner brothers slash new line um that made these movies they end up in some legal trouble in the future uh which eventually leads to some general pr issues with the warren's personal history so we'll talk about that next week but for now let's just learn how they came to be so in 1926 uh edward warren miny or miny

m-i-n-e-y miny i would say miny. I didn't know that their last name Warren was actually his middle name. Fun. Oh. So Edward Warren Miney was born in 1926 in Bridgeport, Kentucky. Or not Kentucky. Bridgeport, Connecticut. Oh, I was like, there's a Bridgeport, Connecticut. Bridgeport.

I know Bridgeport, Connecticut. Well, that's where they're from. Both of them were born there. That's fun. 1926, Ed was born. And he lived in a haunted house he says that he heard doors doors opening and closing he heard footsteps he heard names being called out in the middle of the night and in particular he would hear uh something in his

closet and when he would go check to see what it was he would see a ball of light growing and eventually morph into an old woman's face and apparently this ball of light slash old woman's face would come out of the closet and into the middle of his room at night and he would hear breathing he saw shadows kind of the whole haunted shebang and he asked his dad about it eventually and his dad said there was nothing to worry about because there's always a logical reason for everything in this house. But the ironic part is that his father never gave him a logical reason. There's a reason. Don't worry about it.

It's like there's a reason. Maybe you're not supposed to know it, but there's a reason. So his dad was his dad might have also been freaked out and just trying to, cover it up or you know sweep it under the rug so never really heard any more about that from his dad but his dad was aware that things were going on and just said like i don't know something's happening the pipes it's the pipes uh so ed was brought up catholic and he remembers at eight years old the first time he ever heard of an exorcism because he remembers a pastor telling his dad at a church or at church that day that a guy down the street was being possessed and that he this guy that was being possessed was turning into a pig and he would make the sounds of a pig there were like really bad smells of a pig that he was like looking like a pig like

turning into one. It's very weird. And apparently they were going to do an exorcism on him. And this is the first time I'd ever heard it, which interests me in that. Like, I want to know the history about Ed's dad. Like,

why are even pastors going up to this guy and mentioning things like why is he even in the circle of this? Yeah. Yeah. Why is his dad getting mentioned? And he also has his own haunted house that he's like not telling his kid about it yeah well i wonder because catholics are very superstitious and like definitely believe in demons and stuff it's like very much ritualistic

religion like it's very much but but they don't like it like they don't want to talk they don't want to address it they don't want to so maybe it was like a he he was very afraid of it but didn't want to go there maybe i don't know but also he was interested enough to keep hearing about it or be included in that circle i don't know maybe he was just like very involved in the catholic maybe maybe i feel like you got to be so high up in the church for like the pastors to be telling you about but there's also no pastors in catholic or whatever with the priest oh okay okay yeah i don't know what the title is officially title is priests i would say probably okay but yeah like you have to be pretty high up for the priests to be including you in their weird secret stuff that's in the pig exorcism you know like was it actually a pig like

did they show up and they were like see this man and it's like we never hear anything else about it he he just said the first time i ever heard about an exorcism was when the guy came up to my dad and said oh we're doing an exorcism on this you want to come guy down the street yeah so anyway basically all that to say maybe the priest was just like really oversharing and just like told everybody honestly if you were about to perform an exorcism wouldn't you want to tell everyone yes i would tell the world right and i feel like even especially the guy who was not interested and was scared of it i'd be like right somebody to tell you yeah just really fuck them up for the night so all that to say that ed warren just kind of was always surrounded by this stuff from a young age and

that's how his fascination for learning about this came to be so a year after he was born in 1927 lorraine rita moran was born in also bridgeport connecticut connecticut what's going on my voice i can't say any single word today so lorraine is the clairvoyant of the two she's the one with actual psychic gifts sure and she has had these gifts since she was nine years old or around there and she said she could see auras when she was a little kid and she thought everyone could she didn't realize that she was like that's interesting um fun fact good auras are apparently pastel colored and i and then when asked about bad auras she just said they're terrible they're terrible but they're like poop brown or something

i imagine i imagine like they're like the like like so like scary terrible like scary colors or i don't know i don't know maybe just a marble black gray i don't know sharp auras can somebody tell me what color my aura is i'm I'm going to guess a purpley pink. Oh, really? Interesting. Or an orange. Something on the red spectrum. Okay.

Is that good? I hope so. I don't know. Also, I'm curious. What are our auras? Somebody tell us. Also, someone who sees auras, can you see it through a computer? Good question.

Like through photos? I think so, because I follow one. I think her name is mystic mikaela or something and she posts like about celebrities and stuff and will like talk about their auras so i assume you can see it from also do auras do they show up as different colors to different people because they represent different great question like could i see your aura being like purpley pink but that's actually it's green to someone else but they both mean different yeah like my version of purpley pink is like oh she sweats a lot but like green means she sweats a lot someone else like so they're just different colors but that's just my sweat leaving

my body you're seeing that's not my aura why is it purple hang on well because i took a class on auras once in la obviously where the hell else was kentucky no um back in la and uh it was like people would talk about auras but they were all the same like people would see the same color so i think it's this i think it's meant to be the same across the board but that makes me feel a little more safe with it then because i imagine if you if everyone could see a different color but they all meant the same thing there could be a lot more phonies out there saying oh well i see it completely yeah you know what i mean yeah anyway so she could see auras from a really young age thought everyone could do this when she was a kid she went to a prestigious catholic girls school and this is where she realized that she kind of should keep these gifts to herself.

They don't like that. They do not like that. So there was one time at school where they were like planting a tree together as like a class project or something. And she didn't see the little sapling they were planting. She saw a massive tree in front of her as if she could see it all grown up whoa and a teacher asked how come you're looking at the sky and lorraine said she could see the tree and the teacher said uh can you see the future and lorraine said i guess i can or i guess i am and i think that was when the nuns were like okay so that's the devil the devil. Yeah, she sits in the corner now.

Right, right, right. Another time there were two nuns watching over the class, one named Mother Superior and one named Sister Joseph. I think Mother Superior is just like the head nun. Oh, okay. I'm pretty sure. You would know so much better than me. But anyway, Mother Superior and Sister Joseph were watching over the class. And Lorraine said, hey, look, Sister Joseph's lights are brighter than Mother Superior.

Also like roasting Mother Superior. Yep, exactly. Not so superior, I guess. And apparently nobody else could see them. And that's when she realized she was like alone and what was going on. Mother Superior overheard this and probably offended and also spooked uh she told lorraine you don't get to talk about things like that like that don't say things don't talk about my lights like that yeah my lights are fine and uh ignore the fact that they're black as can be dusty um but no so she said it was when she was encouraged to like never talk

about that stuff okay so lorraine said that she never wanted to be different she was so scared uh freaking people out she never even told her parents about it until she got older um i don't even know if she ever actually told them i don't know when her parents passed right i imagine if they were around during her fame they found out but um she never told them as a kid and she didn't understand her fame they found out but um she never told them as a kid and she didn't understand her gifts for a while but she doesn't regret them and she says the only problem with that is that the only problem with her gifts is that after every event where they came in handy it took a toll on her oh interesting so over time it just kind of

time it just kind of wasn't healthy draining draining yes so in 1944 well when they were both 16 this is when ed and lorraine meet oh and she every wednesday would go to the movies with her mom and he ushered at the movies oh and so they started talking and apparent this is i saw this from one interview and i didn't see it anywhere else but apparently lorraine when she saw him just like how instead of seeing a sapling she saw the big tree in the future instead of looking at him she saw an older version of him that she somehow knew was her husband oh my goodness i know that's really sweet i mean it's kind of creepy because if you can't see the kid you're like 16 and you're like, that old man is my husband. But look, at least she saw the old man was like, you'll do. Yeah, that's true.

I guess. I hope that she understood. I don't know. Yikes. OK. I don't know. I don't know. But so she said that she saw him as an older man, the man that she would marry.

That's kind of cute. More or less the quote. And they both had interests in the supernatural from childhood. Apparently, he was one of the first people she trusted about talking with her gifts or talking to about her gifts and only a year later on his 17th birthday he went into the navy for world war ii so most of their relationship was riding back and forth to each other but while he was gone while he was deployed his ship sank and had one of like the worst disasters of the war it was like i think it crashed into like some sort of tanker and there was like fire

all over the water and people were dying left and right and he's one of the people who survived oh my god he said that he remembers like an angel rescuing him or that um he was surrounded by like a ring of fire where he like should have not been able to get out but he watched it just like separate by itself enough for him to get out i don't know so anyway he ended up surviving when a lot of people didn't and he got to go on like i think it was called survivor's leave or rescue leave or it was basically after so much fucking trauma you got a little time off wow how nice yeah and so while he was on leave that's when he married lorraine okay she was 18

he was 19 and like the day after they got married he had to go back to war so that was like near the end right because if they met in 1944 and they got married in 1945. Yeah. That would have been. So he ended up leaving the war at 22. So like two or three years later. Oh, geez. But he did say in the documentary, he was like, oh, yeah, we got married that night. We like left to like go have our honeymoon. And the next day I had to come back and go back to the war.

Yeah. Oh, my God. So anyway, he got out when he was 22 at this point uh i guess while he was on leave this happened but she ends up getting pregnant while he was still at war that honeymoon daughter that honeymoon was a real one and done one and done one hit wonder uh and they had their daughter judy and that's their only kid they ever had. And so he comes back from war at 22. They've got the baby. She's 21.

And originally, according to Lorraine, they thought that they would end up making a living on being artists. They both really liked to paint. That's interesting. But they also had this shared interest with the supernatural, and so one of the things they would do a lot of times is visit haunted houses that they would read about. I gonna say paint ghosts so it's like cool why in your interest close oh so one of the things that he since they thought they would be artists and

that was the only real he went to like art college so i think he thought this is how i'm gonna support the family and he would sell paintings of local houses to tourists oh that's fun and so he would sell them for only three to five dollars a piece which at the time i guess was more than three or five dollars now i'd be like if i painted something and someone gave me three dollars for it i'd be so fucking over it you can have three dollars to look at it for like yeah exactly so uh he he was painting houses and because they had such an interest in haunted houses that just became the thing he started painting that's cool or became like his like side interest of like oh i paint local houses for tourists but also like my my favorite thing

to do is paint haunted houses i love that so he ended up he was really fascinated with haunted houses still they would go visit them a lot. And he was learning about them through, apparently, I only saw this on one source, but it had me go check everything out, that Ed learned about haunted houses around New England or wherever they could travel to from a magazine called Fate Magazine, which I am now a card carrying subscriber to. I officially became a member last night to fake magazine that and arizona highways you are and arizona highways so fate magazine their slogan is over 70 years of covering the strange and unknown so they're wait i want to sign up too that's cool it's a paranormal magazine so and i guess even it still exists they have a digital version it was

15 for the year just so you guys know uh i literally get the digital one or the i got the digital one but i kind of want the hard copy i was gonna say do they have a physical one because i would love that they do but i'm one of those people who all just never throw it away and i'd feel bad yeah i get you so just to save myself some sanity i'm doing just got my trash pile it's okay i know you'll build a little house of cards out of your trash pile magazines so uh he was reading fate magazine that's where he would learn about the haunted houses and they would travel to them and the way that they really got their break into the paranormal world is he would paint everyday houses and sell them to tourists but through fate

magazine he'd find out about haunted places and when they would go visit them he would either paint or sketch that house and then he would have lorraine who i guess was more like friendly and warm he would he would give he would give the painting or the sketch to lorraine and have her go up to the house and then say uh my husband's like a big artist and he really loves your house we heard that it was haunted you know could we exchange this painting of your house for ghost stories of like oh that's cool yeah so that's how they got their big break they started doing it so consistently that people just knew them as like the paranormal artists who just wanted to like draw your house and in exchange would like get ghost stories that's fun they that's what

they ended up doing and very quickly they became known as the local paranormal enthusiasts who just wanted to observe everything hear about everything and eventually they started getting called for being like backup help on cases and that's how from the 50s to the 60s they got really popular as like if you have a weird ghost experience and you want someone to care about it especially in new england you go to the warrens okay and so by 1952 they founded the new england spr instead of just the society of psychical research they created a new england version of it called the new england society of psychical research and that's where they they were in charge of it and they kind of just used it as like a i guess their company where they would file all their logs or keep all their research from all the cases that they got to go on

right and by the 1970s they were known locally as the seekers of the supernatural oh hell yeah and so that was at the beginning of the 70s but near the mid 70s that is where their career fucking skyrocketed okay so this is their first big case which i actually haven't covered i don't think so i'm gonna cover it eventually their first big like groundbreaking case was the lindley street poltergeist oh i'm not going to go into detail on any of their cases because i've either already covered them or am going to cover them so sorry for the vagueness during this but um this was the first case that apparently had a really large media presence and they got to be part of the case they got invited on and so

that really made them popular and then very quickly after in the same general area amityville happened which by the way amityville was episode four for people that was that long ago oh my god episode four which means i really need to redo it because i'm sure my information i would love because i don't remember jackal from those early episodes you should be perfect perfect so um expect a future episode on amityville so excited after they investigated the amityville house they also went on to do the smurl house which was episode five the episode right after oh my god wow you were just doing hard hitters back then so they uh so those three things all happened within like the same like three year time frame i think and they were all massive cases that got huge media amity

ville was like a classic bestseller for like the whole decade i think like and then a movie came out about it only a couple years later so like amity ville everyone knew about amity ville and even though the warrens weren't mentioned in the book or the movie in real time if you did your own research you knew that they were involved in the case and that alone put them on the map okay okay so after like especially amityville but also the lindley street poltergeist and i think it's the smurl haunting but especially amityville that's just like i mean to this day it's still a classic horror story they ended up hitting the press circuit they were on talk shows they wrote books about their investigations they apparently had I mean, to this day, it's still a classic horror story. They ended up hitting the press circuit. They were on talk shows.

They wrote books about their investigations. They apparently had a short-lived TV series called Seekers of the Supernatural with the Warrens, which now I would like to go find on YouTube. Yes. And from the documentary I watched, apparently the best part of what the Warrens were doing during the 70s when they were super big, what they were doing for the paranormal community is that the movie The Exorcist was already out. And so that kind of gave people a glimpse into the fact that there could be an investigator, a paranormal investigator, like in fiction. But this was really this. The Warrens were the people saying, like, these people actually exist. And it kind of opened the door for other investigators to get interested in this.

OK. Because now people were talking about it. And I don't know. It just gave people hopes that they could enter that field. Yeah. So they really were, like, leading the pack. During their rise to fame, though, obviously, there were a lot of skeptics who were super harsh. And the Warrens were ridiculed a lot for the legitimacy, legitimacy of their work. And apparently, they both took that really hard. Because one thing I haven't

mentioned yet is that the Warrens on every case they did, they never asked for money, they never got they never asked to be charged at all they just wanted to help they just wanted to i think they both had their own experiences and just wanted to meet other people who have gone through things and at this point they'd gotten so big that they knew how few other people were in this world right and if there was someone who was desperate for help they were kind of they just wanted to help so and eventually i say all this now but in the next episode i talk a lot how a lot about how people are skeptic of them potentially being grifters because even though they weren't getting charged and even

though they are even though they weren't getting paid for this um it still boosted their fame and it's still they ended up on talk shows and they still made money from talk shows and book deals as i say that's how they made the money then right it's like being consulted probably for movies and being yeah book authors so there's one camp that says they were just helping however they could like and they didn't even ask for money they just wanted to help people that needed somebody and nobody was listening. But then the other camp was like, yeah, but this just got them more and more opportunities.

So we'll talk about that next. We'll talk about that next week. So it's because they kept getting ridiculed and people kept wondering, like, is Lorraine even a clairvoyant? Like, how much does Ed really know? Lorraine ended up actually getting tested by parapsychologists at UCLA just to shut people up.

And they did find that her abilities were very above average. Oh. So that alone was just like her way of also feeling validated for herself. Yes. Because since a child, she's been like, you're not allowed to talk about this. And also another thing that Ed was known for when he would oh there was an ice machine that freaked i heard that and i got your eyes went above your computer and i was like oh my god oh my god i'm right next to a refrigerator right in front of me and it's it's an ice machine also i put a note on the basement door that said

on air and i'm sure my mother thinks that's an invitation to walk in so at any moment where are you on air well it's like it was like a little placard from amazon it's not like i think i'm like that fucking bougie to be like i'm on the air do you fucking mind that's cute but it's it's like a little microphone that says on air and i i feel like my mom thinks that means come on so oh one of the other things that ed was famous for during his cases was that he actively was trying to debunk this stuff he was never looking for ghosts he was always hoping to be able to explain something so that people wouldn't be scared at night so a lot of people thought like he was in it just for the ghost hunting but realistically he was like i'm here to like help people people however i can but also because they were both catholics and like very devout

catholics um even though ed would go into it saying i'm looking for natural explanations he was very prepared to always like have to expose the he believed in the demons. Yeah, exactly. So UCLA found out that Lorraine was very above average in her skills. She also has officially been determined. She's officially been deemed a light trance medium versus a deep trance medium. So with Lorraine, she is very aware of what's going on around her when she goes into her trances or when she's seeing things versus a deep trance person who might wake up and not know where they are what was going on for example the first time that they ever went to a haunted house together when like visiting a haunted house and letting the owner tell their ghost stories she like accidentally astral

projected but she was very aware of what was going on around her so things like that so by the 80s they just early things you know just being a girl boss so things actually asked were projected out of here so by the 1980s they are not only wildly popular but they have helped over a thousand families they also created the occult museum in their home in Monroe, Connecticut, which is next to Ed's office. And in this museum, Ed would collect artifacts from each of their cases, as well as any investigation files they had or any evidence. So it was just kind of where they kept everything. But again, one of the ways that might have been a little grifty is that they were, they could also charge people admission to come to the museum. So that's a hard line.

It's like, well, you don't want people just wandering in all the time for free. Like, right. So I get the need to, like, monetize something to make a living. But also I can see how that could also hurt your reputation a little bit. Yeah. But like, but also it is like, I mean, it was the Zach Bagans Museum before the Zach Bagans Museum. It was come see all of these terrifying things you've heard about right so during their peak uh this is one of the better things that they were able to do for people is that during their real

fandom and their real fame is that uh the church was still super secretive i guess they still are but even more so than about exorcisms and participating and helping with hauntings and even when ed would say like these people need help and the local you know churches would say they didn't want to be a part of it uh that gave ed in his mind the right to then go to the media and like he was like i'm famous like i'll get on tv i'll bring the media to an investigation like i'll really like pump this thing up. So that way the church has to pay attention to it. Okay. And you're just like cornering them too.

Yeah. So he was like, I'm he would record everything. He would do audio. He would bring cameras. He would record all footage. And if he ever found any evidence, he would bring the media with him and like talk about his experiences there and how scary it was and how people needed help and then the church was like okay fine we'll we'll bring

an exorcism so uh or we'll do an exorcism so ed actually was quoted saying you would be shocked how many catholic priests don't believe there's a devil oh interesting so apparently his he was like i will give you proof that there is a devil and you have to do something about it because that's your job yeah um a lot of times the churches still wouldn't want to help after seeing the footage and that was when he would bring all the media with him and this is actually how in the smurl haunting he got one of the future popes to help on an investigation holy shit because it got all the way to the vatican there was like all the way to the got all the way to the Vatican. There was like this family needed help. All the way to the top. So also during the high of their fame, they went on lecture circuits, especially at colleges.

And it was, we'll talk a little bit about that just to give like some insight. This is kind of shady in one way because they were really leaning into like the satanic panic of the time and like people were freaking out and so people would always want to come to their lectures but ed warren took this as an opportunity as a devout catholic to bring a bunch of college students in who might be swindled by the occult and he would have them come to his lectures but like in a in preparation like he would prevent them from ever getting involved in that by saying the devil is real don't fuck with that shit don't play with ouija boards don't open portals so he thought of that class in college oops i failed it probably so anyway he took it as like he was almost like like he was doing like the dare program but instead of for drugs he was doing it for for ghosts that was his idea of the lecture circuit was to keep the devil away and before you even got into that kind of stuff while satanic panic

was among us okay but other people saw it more as like taking advantage of the fact that people were into creepy stuff and now they're coming to your lectures for money so there's a back and forth yep yep so let me see let me see uh when people would call out ed for uh doing all these things for clout and money he would admit out loud that yes i am doing this stuff for clout i am doing it for money because i am quote willing to do anything to expose the devil whoa so he thought he would argue with righteous and he thought he was righteous in this. Other people saw it as like you're admitting to doing this for clout. Anyway, that's kind of the main gist of their storyline.

And in 2006, Ed died and he died after like a long illness. And Lorraine, she retired by this point, but she was still a consultant. And after Ed died, Lorraine refused to go into the museum with all of the items alone and she said after she passed she wants everything to go to the vatican the vatican's like we did not sign up for this it's all this mail coming to our po box that's her dream at least i have a hunch it's actually going to end up in las vegas at zach's house the modern day pope if you will exactly so in 2019 uh lorraine's death was announced on their new england spr facebook group which her daughter and son-in-law now are in charge of um so they've kind of taken on this legacy in a way especially the son-in-law he like

is really into this stuff and has done whatever he can fun fact when lorraine did die the night that she was put into a coffin the undertaker said that on the security cameras there were a bunch of orbs floating around her all night oh um guardians yeah and there's i'm gonna end on a quote from lorraine that says uh just to i don know, revalidate that they really believed in the work that they were doing. Lorraine said, where haunting phenomena has occurred, we have never met a true atheist in a haunted home.

Ooh, I just got chills. So anyway, that is the very condensed biography of Ed and Lorraine Warren. And next week we will talk about the legal scandals that have come out in recent years okay wow i really like that actually em i thought you did a great job thank you i fascinating i i hope i did it a little justice i i'm i hope people that was what people were hoping for yeah i mean it gives context to a lot of the things you've talked about already and yeah yeah i think it's fascinating and next week we will talk about how the conjuring universe has been involved in these scandals as well i love it yeah there you have it i know most

of our listeners have probably watched the conjuring unlike one of the hosts of this show if not maybe this will give you a you know a second try at watching them or an interest in watch them i don't know i don't know maybe not uh you made me watch fucking sinister that one time so i don't know i won't put it that has nothing to do with the warrens to be fair just saying okay emothy oh tell me tell me okay um first of all we just had like a quick break folks and i get back on the zoom call and emma's like wandering around without their headphones on like screaming because i can hear

that they can't hear me and i was like something's on fire like what happened i still by the way i'm hung up we hopped back on i'm a little on edge because i never found out what the culprit is but something does smell like it's burning i'm convinced linda's burning a pot roast upstairs but like hopefully it's nothing worse than that hang on call tom i just want to make sure upstairs that like someone is there let me call my stepbrother actually call brendan because he he works upstairs by the kitchen and i just he's also been known to burn things sorry brendan i don't know if he even has his phone on him i'm like it really does smell like something's burning what do you want to run upstairs hey uh is something burning in the kitchen mom's cooking okay got it thank you okay bye okay cool i really man i called it really good he was like your mom's cooking and i went aha

that's that tracks okay that okay check got it no worries emma was like oh but like so again i'm i'm not em's not able to hear me but i was like well if something goes up in flames like let me know and i'm just watching the screen like what am i gonna be quiet just sit here and watch you go up in flames but we'd we'd have it for posterity's sake i did tell christine m said for insurance purposes i said for tiktok followers but like i did give christine permission and i'm letting everyone else know now that if i were to ever not make it out and it got recorded you have my my I don't know my blessing to do whatever you want with that if it's gonna if it's gonna boost you if it's gonna get you out of a day at work you know do whatever it takes I okay

yeah I mean that goes both ways always um obviously. So we need to send this to our PR team now so that they're prepared for when one of us gets in hot water for tweeting about the other's demise. Anyway. Okay. So now that you're not on fire and Linda is. She might be. I have a story for you. I'm actually doing a two-parter today as well so oh surprise okay we've never done a double two-parter it's a quadruple parter technically

oh little quadruplets what uh what is this one about is it is it horrible christine is it so sad it's not like fun i mean it's it's yeah but is it gonna really bother me you know compared to it's the story just go it's the story of foxy noxy that sounds precious oh you don't know who foxy noxy is okay no it's the story sounds like they hang out in the box with the fox eating locks or something it's a dr seuss children's book actually no um it is the story of amanda knox oh there was a movie about amanda knox yeah right you don't remember this story from like high school or whenever this happened no oh my gosh okay it's a huge okay wow okay well so i get to tell you the story then i guess okay. Okay. First time. Great. Perfect. You don't know any background of it?

I don't know any background. Oh, okay. I know nothing. I like when I get to do this. Okay. Educate me. I feel so behind since it shocked you that I don't know who this person is. It kind of did.

Yeah. It's a big story. It was, you know, when we were in high school and renee was actually living in italy it takes place in italy and renee was living in italy that year so i remember when it happened and she was over there and i was like so she got to live it all firsthand watching what was going on um okay so i'm just going to tell you the story then it's a two-parter because this is a long one um and the reason it's kind of come back to the spotlight is because it's been claimed that Matt Damon's new film Stillwater like rips off the story. And so it's kind of come back into the news because Stillwater, which is Matt Damon's new film, follows Matt Damon's character as he travels to France after his daughter is imprisoned for murdering her lover.

uh matt damon's character as he travels to france after his daughter is imprisoned for murdering her lover and the director tom mccarthy told vanity fair that it was directly inspired by the amanda knox saga so um a man has been dragged back out into the spotlight matt damon is not having a good wait what else happened with him oh god he so the f word slur for queer people, primarily gay men. He very, I don't know if he very proudly, but he did seem proud of himself that he just recently stopped saying it after his daughter educated him on what the word history was. What? So everyone kind of was throwing shade at him of like, it took you how long? We're so proud of you well there was really funny memes about it online where it was like i'm gonna say the meme and if you don't

understand the reference i'll explain it but it will hurt my feelings so please laugh anyway um that there was a a meme of like matt damon potentially saying the f word or saying the f word and then hillary duff coming out in a clothing store and saying like hey that's not cool because remember the mtv psa she did about saying gay is like as a bad word isn't good do you remember that vague like so vaguely there so for those of you who are not our age and are younger hillary duff when she was like at her peak she did this psa uh on mtv remember that where it was there were two girls uh walking through a mall and they like picked up a p and out something some article of clothing you're like oh i hate that it's so gay it looks so gay because we all used to say everything was so gay to imply bad and hillary duff comes out of fucking nowhere in the mall.

And she goes, hey, you can't say that. Like, imagine if I said that is so girl wearing like an outdated top and the girl was wearing an outdated top. And like, but she like she was she's considered a gay icon for this PSA where she was like, think about what you say. Oh, my God. I don't even remember that. So there was a meme going around bringing that back saying that Matt Damon's daughter is the real life Hilary Duff.

Wait, that's very cute. I mean, shocking that like 2021 is the time to figure that out. But okay. I know. Anyway, so Matt Damon in summary is not doing hot this month. Yeah, well, apparently not because now he's ripping off this story allegedly. And on Amandaox's medium page where she writes like a lot of blog articles blog articles okay i'm like a thousand but where she

writes a lot of pieces for medium um in an article published july 29th of 2021 aka like a month ago um the title of the article is who owns my name and she opens with the sentences does my name belong to me does my face what about my life my story why is my name used to refer to events i had no hand in i return to these questions because others continue to profit off my name face and story without my consent most recently the film still water wow so back in the limelight now we're going to go over the real story behind Amanda Knox and what has happened to lead up to this point. I grew up with this case.

Like, I remember this case very clearly. It was one of the first ones that I like followed because I was like 17 or something like that, like late high school. And it was huge at the time. I mean, I guess Em was just watching like infomercials with Hilary Duff but I was following it I was too busy watching MTV and like I don't know going to house parties learning to not say gay learning to not say gay while also coming to terms with the fact that I was so insanely gay what a fun like what a fun time for you I bet Hilary Duff I think taught me I'm gay

I'm confused I'm not really sure so so um So anyway, so that was definitely one that has kind of resonated with me over the years, especially, excuse me, especially because Renee was living over there when this happened. So I remember like visiting her and being like, what the hell is going on? So on November 2nd, 2007, so this is a refresher for all of those who've never heard the story, which I guess includes Em. So I'll give you a quick recap. Or maybe Matt Damon. He seems to be behind the curve on some things. Okay, that's true. Where's Matt Damon's daughter? I need her to repeat this to him. So on November 2nd, 2007, 21-year-old student Meredith Kircher from Surrey, England was found having been stabbed

to death in her house in perugia italy meredith's 20 year old american roommate amanda knox and knox's then boyfriend rafael soleshito i tried to learn how to pronounce it soleshito rapidly emerged as primary suspect in the investigation and uh the key movie that i took a lot of this information was from information from was uh the netflix documentary from 2016 called amanda knox which does like a very in-depth coverage of the case and interviews her and the room not the room and the her boyfriend or former boyfriend um and so and soon you can also watch still water apparently yes i guess that'll be another one um yeah i i can't say how close to to the true story it'll be but um apparently it's a quote ripoff so we'll see but to start going into the story amanda knox was born july 9th 1987 in seattle washington

to a math teacher named edna meellis and Kurt Knox, a vice president of finance at Macy's. She has a younger sister named Deanna and two stepsisters named Ashley and Delaney. And her parents divorced when she was a toddler. She grew up in a middle-class neighborhood and was known to participate in a lot of sports, most importantly soccer, which is where she earned the name Foxy Knoxie among her teammates got it and that was just a cute fun nickname until let's just say it all came back around later on and it was used against her by the media but we'll get there so for fuck's sake okay well so foxy noxy um that was her nickname uh she graduated in 2005 from seattleparatory High School and was accepted into the

University of Washington to study linguistics. Five. Yeah, she was like a really just normal college kid. She had house parties. She was on the dean's list. She worked a couple jobs to pay her tuition. She was known as kind and had a good group of friends. In the documentary, she describes herself as quirky, and I was okay with that. I was ridiculous, and I was okay with that. I thought of myself as like a warrior princess. I'm like Xena. So she was always kind of like quirky and fun and like goofy. Like there's a lot of old clips, video clips of her just being goofy with friends.

I mean, I think we could probably all relate to that. And so when the opportunity came about for her to study abroad for a year she jumped at the chance and off she went to perugia italy to soak up the italian culture and study at the university for foreigners so that's actually named i was gonna say how couldn't get more direct yeah europeans don't like screw around with you know silly names this is for you not us nobody else this is for americans um so in perugia apparently more than a quarter of the population are students studying abroad so it's like a big college student town and amanda found a room in a house with a student from England called Meredith Kircher, as well as two Italian women, Filomena Romanelli and Laura Mazzetti. So the four of them moved into this cute little house. You can look at pictures online. It's kind of like a,

I don't know, it looks just like a quaint Italian house, like on the edge of a road. It just looks really, really cute. So she moved in, in September of 2007, and was able to quickly find a job. So she basically said in the documentary, she was like, there wasn't much schoolwork, like much work being done at this university for foreigners, basically. So she's like, I might as well get a job. Oh, so that's a mature way to think. I would not have been that way. I've been like, hell yeah. I'm like, time to go all over the damn world. Pizza, gelato, like that's my pastime. But no, she was like, I'm going to find a job.

So she started working in a bar called Le Chic, which was run by a man named Patrick Lumumba. And he, I guess, had been trying to promote his new restaurant business. And when he saw like a blonde American girl come in for an interview, he was like, this is a good way to draw in a new crowd of people. So she started working there. And meanwhile, her roommate, Meredith Kircher, who was known to her friends as Mez, was born December 28th of 1985, was a student at the University of Leeds studying European politics and Italian abroad. She was very close with her family she was said to call her mother daily and although amanda and meredith weren't

like best friends like they had only known each other for a few weeks they were still pals like you know they were they got along well they were roommates they didn't have a beef or anything like that sure um and they did a lot of they didn't have a beef you said they didn't have a beef is that not how you say it it's i think i'm pretty sure it's beef oh i thought it was like i have a beef with someone is that not right no like i have beef with someone do you have a chicken with someone too yeah oh my god Well, that's embarrassing. Well, it's okay. It's fine.

I even in that sentence said September correctly. I was so proud of that that I think it just totally didn't even cross my mind. A little Matt Damon-y there to be proud of one thing and then be like, oh, uh-oh. No, I'm just kidding. Oh no. I'm just kidding. No, it's like you've got beef with someone. Yeah, that I know in my head is correct.

I don't know why I said it wrong. But now I've got a beef with you calling it a beef. I really thought that was a thing. Okay, wow. You were one letter off, so it's fine. I just threw a letter in there. It's okay. They didn't have beef.

Got it. Got it. They got along. Oh, that's embarrassing. I was going to talk about about that okay um so they did a lot of things together in october they went to something called the euro chocolate festival which is where we would be a thousand percent all i want now yeah i'm like really bummed we weren't part of this right according to wikipedia euro chocolate offers a variety of activity activities including chocolate art displays experimental chocolate tastings street performances and chocolate sculpting in recent years an igloo has been constructed out of 3600 kilograms aka 7900

pounds of chocolate bricks wow i would eat all of it we would live inside it and never leave i would just like like one of those like medieval torture things with the rats how they like eat through your stomach oh my god imagine the castle i'm the rat and i'm going to eat through the walls and i won't stop until it's all gone in all the scenarios we're the rat okay that's just what you need to remember we're the rat uh and apparently in the 2007 events uh according to italyloglog.com the fun got started on saturday when a giant playstation 3 game console entirely made of chocolate was unveiled and then 200 smaller chocolate playstation 3 controllers were broken up and dispersed

through the crowd for consumption fun oh my god like regina george's crown like yes yes exactly break it off and and the the controllers they were like oh miniature they were like huge and then they would just break them off and it just looked so cool i don't know fine that sounds so fun yeah um so that they were like doing stuff together. They didn't have beef. They were just going to chocolate festival. They just had chocolate. That's all.

They just had chocolate. And like, who doesn't want that with their friend, you know? And then on October 25th of 2007, Meredith and Amanda attended a classical music concert. And it was there that Amanda first laid eyes on the 23 year old italian computer engineering student rafael solescito va va voom va va voom and wowza they were infatuated with each other um he's interviewed in this documentary i think he's really cute and he was very like you could tell he was like kind of dorky when he was younger, but like they were just enamored with each other. What's his name?

Raphael. He looked like they described him, I think, as an Italian Harry Potter, which cracked me up. What's his last name? So it's S-O-L-L-E-C-I-T-O. And I will warn you, like, I don't know if he was cute back then, but now in his 2016 interview, I was like, like oh he's pretty cute he literally looks like a harry potter oh now his twitter picture he is a looker right he's like

really handsome now in the in the he's he's he's he's a good guy he's a good looking guy and he was like so sweet early on definitely the harry potter like you could tell he was, like, dorky, you know? Yeah, he was, like, he, you know, he was someone I would, like, hang out on, like, Twitch with, maybe. You know? Not to, like, rag on anyone else. I mean, I'm doing it, too. But, like, he looks kind of like the stereotype, like, gamer guy, you know? Yes. Well, he was.

And that was, like, even his own identity. He was, like, I was always this kind of nerdy computer guy. And all of a sudden, like, this American girl comes along and like they were just in love with each other. And yeah, so I just thought that was kind of a fun little twist because I. He's a cutie pie. He was always a cutie pie, but he has really aged like a fine. That's what I'm saying.

And like part of it, too. He was describing like, oh, I was such a dork. And I was like, really? And then I looked him up and I was like, aha, OK, you had of the harry potter thing going which it really is like it's it's just like the the 80s horrific trope of like once you take glasses off you're beautiful oh my god it's his glasses were not great though it's it was the transition lenses folks like you know they were just like the thin wire framed like glasses that like all of us had at one point and then realized later we shouldn't have done it and look back and go mom what the

hell were you thinking yeah but then he took it off and he's just like a handsome handsome prince you know his hair out a little yeah so it was kind of cool because i feel like i had already i had always heard about him as being part of the story and in my head he was just like this kind of skeevy italian dude and like i had no clue and so when they interviewed him on the show i was like oh he's really like sweet and dorky like they were clearly infatuated with each other it's just a different spin seeing it in person on a video than like what you what i at least what i absorbed back in 2007 um so anyway she goes to this uh music concert uh she meets this kind of nerdy guy rafael and so amanda and rafael start dating he was like it was really sweet he kept being like i was so

nervous like my and you know his english is all broken he's like i was trying to show her the town and my heart was beating so fast i could barely think like they were clearly in love it all gets shit on so don't worry but at the time it was sweet so yes that's where that relationship began now about a week later uh november 1st of 2007 it was only amanda and meredith staying at the cottage because it was a holiday in italy it was all saints day day after halloween um so their housemates had gone home to be with their families and amanda had been hanging out with her boyfriend rafael she stayed overnight with him she even described like what they did last that night they watched amelie they she read to him from a german harry potter book like they were just and and then they then they made love

she said and i was like oh. They did everything. They did all the steps of the day. They did the full spectrum of activities. The full shebang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one could do. Yeah. So she was staying overnight at Raphael's house, and she returned to the cottage on the late morning of November 2nd.

So when she gets to the house, she realizes things are off. Never a good start. First, she notices the front door is ajar and she calls out she doesn't hear anybody so she goes to the bathroom that she and meredith shared to take a shower and she noticed what seemed to be specks of blood in the sink but they were so small that she thought like maybe someone was on their period or like had cut themselves shaving like who knows um tiny yeah so i like i get that too i feel like um i don't know it's a bathroom it's there's stuff happens there yeah yeah um so she takes a shower and when she gets out of the shower she's stepping onto the bath mat she sees a much bigger stain of blood on the bath mat and that's when she's like oh shit i didn't see that before oh and then she goes to use the toilet and

she finds unflushed feces in the toilet bowl oh and so that's at this point though oh oh she panics okay at this point i'd be like oh someone's having a really bad day yes that was my thought as well like someone either had way too much to drink and didn't know how to like get into bed i would just be like someone's suffering and i need to help along yeah somebody's not okay and like so she saw that and the toilet was like something is off she got like a chill and was like okay something's not right here the you know the specks of blood is one thing. Giant spot on the bath mat is another thing.

The toilet and flush is another thing. Then she's putting together the door was open. Like, she's just starting to freak out a little bit. So she tries to call Meredith, doesn't get an answer. She tries to call her other roommate, Philomena, to tell her she thought there had been an intruder in the house. So she leaves to get Raphael because she's freaked out, and he comes back in the house so she leaves to get rafael because she's freaked out and he comes back to the house with her he and amanda return to scout it out and notably meredith's door was locked and which was not normal um so they're trying to knock and call for her and the

more silence they hear the more panicked amanda gets uh so they they notice the door is locked and they also noticed that the window to filomena's room has been smashed and that's when they're like someone's been in here and so that was enough for them to call uh italy's military police force the carabinieri let's hope i'm saying that right fine yeah yeah and so when the police arrived the first thing they did was smash down Meredith's door. And unfortunately, they found Meredith dead on the floor of her bedroom. She had, oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. The story is like pretty, I don't know, it gets me.

So apart from a t-shirt, which was crumpled up near her shoulders, she was found naked under a duvet on the floor. she had been stabbed in the neck with a knife very very deep wound in her neck there were some nicks on her chin as if someone had been like taunting her or like oh cutting her face uh and in a later autopsy it would be noted that there had been sexual interference with her body and so i looked up that phrase because i wanted to clarify what that meant yeah i struggled to find a real answer the only sources that came up were in reference to canadian law and so i don't know you know this took place in italy and meredith was english so i don't know like where this fits in but at least according to canadian law according to a website called sanders criminal law sexual

interference is a specific type of sexual assault that applies where you touch a complainant who is under the age of 16 years for a sexual purpose with any part of your body or an object but meredith was 21 so i'm not really sure like it clearly doesn't translate properly so i'm not sure what the yeah does that could it be interchangeable with just sexual assault it might be and at the very least it seems to be a type of sexual assault so i would say at least under that umbrella so um we can just call it that to be broader um so we'll just call it that but so meredith's two credit cards 300 pound oh sorry 300 euro which is about 420 in cash and her house keys were all missing so shocking i mean amanda's at her boyfriend's house comes home and finds this scene it's horrible horrible so amanda

and rafael are waiting outside and this is when things start to go sour for them because the press has been gathered outside they hear the story they. They're, you know, recording the scene. And at this point, Amanda and Raphael share a kiss. Now, let's just say the media took that and ran with it. Now, what she describes it as is a casual kiss, just three seconds among hours of standing around, exhausted, scared, waiting for news from the police. And they had started dating literally a week earlier. seconds among hours of standing around exhausted scared waiting for news from the police and they had started dating literally a week earlier and so they were kind of like leaning against each other it wasn't like they were making out like you can see the clip in the documentary they were just

affectionate yeah and like you can see she's clearly distraught and like he kisses her and she kind of like looks down and looks at it's not like, oh, we're making out hot and heavy out here. Right. But it got transformed into that. Like who makes out outside of their murdered roommates crime scene, you know, and I'm sure if you took a still of them kissing, it would look worse than like the peck that it was. But, you know, they were standing there for hours. So it's not shocking to me that at one point he kissed her. He just said like, hey, it's going to be OK. gonna be okay yes exactly you know that's what it looked like it looked like a reassurance type of like

you know like at least we're safe yes i'm here i'm here they didn't look happy like i was looking at the scene like they look miserable so um anyway that's that's kind of the first step that Anyway, that's kind of the first step that happened that didn't start things off well for them. So, the image of Amanda and Raphael kissing broke this into an international story, became the key part in the investigation where people started saying they're behaving inappropriately for the scenario so immediately two police officers uh question amanda finding it baffling that she didn't raise the alarm sooner and had like taken a shower and all that but like you and i said if we just saw a couple flexiblood and called out nobody answered yeah i feel like i'd be like somebody either cut their leg shaving and was trying to you know something like that or like someone might have been on the toilet and somehow hurt themselves and like ran off i don't know i don't know that shows more about us probably yeah i injured myself on the toilet but i mean i don't know i'm trying to think like what

could have happened but something that i clearly don't know what happened yes and i feel like not everybody's instinct is like well mine might be murder but only because i do this show but i feel like especially if it's not like a close friend it's like a roommate you don't know them very well you've only known them a month like you don't know what their bathroom habits are like i mean i imagine if i saw like some blood on the floor and no one was there like later i would be like alison you good like it looks like did you cut yourself or something? Like, I wouldn't think like, oh, there's, I do think that combined with the fact that there was like an unflushed toilet, that makes me feel like, okay, so you hurt yourself and therefore like, were in such a panic, you forgot to do that. Like, maybe they're the same situation. Or like, it's, it's coincidental that, you know, two separate weird things happened in one day that i i wouldn't really feel in danger yet though yeah i think i wouldn't really i think i'd feel on edge maybe like something seems off um i would i would text them and be like are you

okay where are you yes exactly i would try to get a hold of them too and i think having the door open and all that like it would put me on edge i would probably go get somebody to be like can you check the house out with me because nobody's answering like i that is exactly how i would have i assume reacted um so you know of course the police were like why didn't you say anything sooner you took a shower um and amanda and rafael are questioned rigorously by police day for days after this discovery amanda asked for legal counsel but was refused it because italian law only mandates the appointment of a lawyer for someone suspected of a crime so that is i think where a lot of this kind of it diverges from the stories we cover usually in

the u.s because you don't get a lawyer just because you want a lawyer like over there like she's like i need a lawyer and they're like no and it's like that here does not fly right so there's a lot of differences there i wouldn't even think about that though which is so i mean it makes sense once you say it to me they'll like hey different places have different yeah yeah but i just assume like oh everyone's got like a public defender. A standard. Like, yeah, exactly. And it just doesn't work that way, which is really scary. And, you know, she's young. She's 20. Like, all you know is like ask for a lawyer and they're like, no.

And now what? You know, you barely speak Italian. Like she said she spoke it at like a 10-year-old level, if that. So anyway, so from the police's point of view, they still haven't found a murder weapon. They were becoming more sure that Amanda had something to do with this murder. So they tap Amanda and Raphael's phones. And the media are in for a frenzy now. After some time off, after Meredith's body is found, Raphael and Amanda are spotted in town shopping.

The shopkeeper, Carlo Maria Scotti di Rinaldidi spoke to police after recognizing uh amanda and rafael and he revealed according to the evening standard that they came into the shop and were there for about 20 minutes the girl bought a camisole and a g-string i heard her as she was choosing the underwear and as they were ready to pay in front of the till she whispered afterwards i'm going to take you home so we can have wild sex together. Oh. And so this shop owner, DiRinaldi, said the couple behaved in a way that other shoppers noted was exhibitionist. So that did not bode well for them either.

Okay. Reputation wise. And remember her nickname from soccer camp? Sure do. Sure do. Foxy. Foxy Noxy became a headline the media ran with it they're like she's out purchasing g-strings she's purchasing lingerie she's making out with her

boyfriend she's in a brand new relationship everyone chill the fuck out she's 20 yeah in a foreign country like she doesn't think i feel like at this point she's not like oh my god i'm being looked at as a suspect like because if you're not guilty like i feel like it's hard to imagine how much scrutiny or like she didn't know her phone was being tapped i also i would also make the potential argument that like if you go through trauma like that sometimes like hypersexuality is a sign of like you know acting out or like i mean like she could also just nap like just want to like sleep with her brand new boyfriend like that's totally fine yeah and you could also say this might be like a you know she's dealing this is like a way yeah i feel like yeah i feel like

everyone has some way of distraction or you know whatever um and as much as it was like of course this is a traumatic horrible thing like you said it might be maybe it was a distraction from like oh my roommate was just brutally murdered i'm gonna go live with my boyfriend for a while and yeah i'm gonna go sleep with him because that will definitely keep me distracted from thinking about walking into my own home to a dead and finding blood and yeah etc like that could have been me that's at least my perspective on it. So, yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. And also a lot of this shit ended up being way over exaggerated. So who knows how much this story is even true or how much it's been blown out of proportion. So Foxy Noxy becomes a huge media scandal.

And although Amanda had told the police over and over again how she spent the evening with her boyfriend, Italian police just didn't believe her. So as Amanda describes in a Twitter thread written this year in January of 2021, police had found a text message on my phone that I'd sent to my boss, Patrick Lumumba. He'd given me the night off work that day, and I'd written him in my broken Italian, si vediamo più tardi, buona serata. I don't know. I don't speak Italian. And so she was literally attempting to write, see you later, good night. But that English idiom doesn't exist in Italian.

So the cops interpreted it as a literal appointment. Like, I will see you later today. So that she was like, yeah, look at my phone. Like, there's nothing, you know. And they were like, well, it says you're meeting him later tonight. And she was like yeah look at my phone like there's nothing you know and they're like well it says you're meeting him later tonight and she was like no and he they were like it's right here in the text message you must have forgotten blah blah blah and so you know they had that to hang on to and so they basically poor girl yeah it's terrible it's really terrible um she described

the interviewing as torturous later revealing that the italian police had slapped her while urging her to remember what had happened again she had asked for a lawyer no luck the twitter thread continues i was 20 i was 3 000 miles from home my friend had just been killed the killer was on the loose and i spoke italian maybe as well as a 10 year old i was confused and afraid in that state a group of seasoned adults questioned me without an attorney for 53 hours oh my god this is a nightmare yeah i mean night like pure nightmare um and i want to throw this in here because she said this at the beginning of the documentary it like still gives me goose camp but like she said in the beginning because i was wondering like why is this such a controversial story still and she she made a really, really good point. I don't know if she's been in therapy or something, but she made this point.

I was like, whoa, that's exactly it. Where she said either people are either they think I'm guilty or they think I'm not guilty. There's no in between. And she made the point of, you know, it could be if you think she's guilty, it's because you want to put she's like a what is it? Devil in sheep's clothing. I forget the phrase. But if you it's hard to convince yourself she's not guilty because then like this could happen to anybody. That could happen to me.

It's sort of like when you're thinking of a victim in a crime and you want to find a reason. Like, why did this person get killed? Did they leave the door unlocked? Just something to like keep yourself at ease like well i won't end up that way that won't happen to me because i always lock my door or i never go out and party at night or whatever it is and i think that's the same kind of idea of like if this can happen to just some girl on study abroad like it could happen to anybody unless she's guilty and then you can talk yourself into you know well she's evil and a psychopath and i don't know i just think it's so fascinating um

look at humanity so they question her without an attorney for 53 hours over five days in a language i could barely speak and they lied to me repeatedly they told me i was a witness that i was helping them a lie they told me that rafael had contrad alibi. A lie. They said they had evidence that placed me at the crime scene that night. A lie. They refused to believe my simple and true story, that I'd been at Rafael's house that night, that I knew nothing. And so they engaged in a relentless campaign of lies and gaslighting. They isolated me and made me vulnerable. They isolated me and made me vulnerable. They had tapped my phone. They knew my mom was due to arrive in Italy the next day, that I would soon have an adult to protect me. That's when they decided to break me.

They'd recorded all previous interviews, but conveniently not this final session. Interesting. They kept me up overnight. They told me I had amnesia, that I was so traumatized by events I'd witnessed that I'd repressed them. They shouted at me to remember, remember. They slapped me me my phone was ringing on the table it was my mom she'd arrived in italy they wouldn't let me answer it you were there they said if you just remember everything will be fine and so then they see this text

forcing her to like like like beyond coercion completely coercion yeah exactly and then an admission or something yeah and like again this is a scenario where in the u.s like you at least technically i mean it happens but like technically this is not a legal confession if you've asked for a lawyer and under duress under duress exactly and but that's kind of not what happened here um and so they saw this uh text message to her boss that said like see you later and they said they thought see you literally in a few hours exactly so they said you must have met him at the house remember remember the truth and she said they made me feel insane like i couldn't trust my own thoughts my own

memories i started to believe them that i had amnesia that i'd witnessed something horrific they wrote a statement for me a confused and contradictory statement that implicated my boss, Patrick, and placed me at the scene of the crime. Shaking and tired and gaslit into submission, I signed it. They congratulated each other and rushed off to arrest my boss. So her boss is literally like, you have the night off. And next thing he knows, he's being brought in, arrested for this girl's murder. That's sick. And so she says, I was thrown in a cell hours later i

recanted the statement said i couldn't stand by it that i was confused that it was all a jumble they ignored me this was all before any forensic evidence had come back so she's in a shitty situation that's i can't even imagine i can't even imagine the i don't even know what the word would be that's just it's that's so sad and scary it's yeah it's a nightmare like you said it's like a waking nightmare like you can't even fathom being in a situation like this and who would think that they'd ever be in a situation like this especially right on such an innocent trip abroad it's horrible it's horrible so as a man and obviously now people are listening if

you're like i think she's guilty like okay we we disagree then which is fine i mean you know you have your own opinions this is still a very controversial case the way this story is currently being spun to me i don't think she did anything to be fair yeah and this is you know obviously i'm sure different documentaries have different angles and things but like everything i've heard and even back then when it was on the news, I remember thinking like, what is this? This is like they're treating her terribly. Like the way that it was angled about her being the sexual deviant and the psychopathic

like sex monster. It was like it's just fucked up in and of itself, even if it's. Yeah. Even even if she did something wrong. Why are they like slut shaming her? It's completely fucked up in and of itself, even if it's. Yeah. Even even if she did something wrong, why are they like slut shaming her? It's completely. Yeah. That's like for like having a relationship and like coping however she needed to with

a death. It ends up being like really just focused on her. And honestly, I think it also does such a disservice to Meredith, who was murdered. And like no one cares about that anymore. Right. Like everyone's just so obsessed with the aftermath and this relationship she's in and this like it just i feel like it it's just upsetting i don't know how else to say it um so as amanda describes on november 6th she submitted a statement in which

she admitted to being in the apartment while the murder took place with her boss patrick lamumba uh which like is just not true i can't even imagine sorry but like no no go for it i just even just like i can't even imagine being the cops that wrote this like a complete fake story i mean did or did they so get enough information where they genuinely thought they could piece it together and that made sense or was this like a full-blown i think this was one of those stories where they there was so much pressure from the media they needed to solve this case they needed to pin it on someone and once they got it got the idea because the the guy in charge of this whole case which i'll talk about in a minute he is fully to this day convinced that she is guilty of this crime so i think they really believed she was guilty and it took that

it took it colored their view of this whole uh case and it and of the evidence and they weren't able to look at it in an unbiased way and so when they finally got her to say yes i did it or whatever it was like well you said you did it so obviously you did it like there was no backtracking they were never gonna is there any other proof we come up with oh there's a lot of evidence and things that come into play that okay end up becoming even just adding more controversy but yes there's definitely more that comes like when the forensic evidence comes back um so amanda rafael and lamumba are taken into custody are all three charged with the murder of meredith and the man

leading the case against amanda knox was the one i was just talking about who still thinks she's guilty his name is giuliano minini and he was interviewed extensively in this uh documentary i he pisses me right off i'll tell you that much i was like not having it with this guy he was like well at one point he was like well why would you like her behavior so irrational why would you say you did it if you didn't do it it's not it's not hard to say i didn't do it and i was like of course she said she didn't do it she said it 10 000 times until you berated her into saying she did it like he's also like and genuinely let's let's pretend she's the killer and he is you know he he's got a point here i still can't tolerate a man calling a woman irrational like yes he called her behavior irrational and i was like her friend was just murdered.

Like, what are you talking about? Nobody's rational at that point. And it's not fair to, like, again, I mean, we've gone over this before, but, like, nobody knows how they're going to react when something terrible happens. And, again, not to make, like, not to, I don't know, make this sound harsher than it is, but, like, they'd only know each other a few weeks. It wasn't like she'd lost a lifetime family member or somebody that she knew very well not that that should you know obviously she was still it was traumatic and horrible her mental sanity had

is is currently justified to uh not being tip-top like her yes yes she's allowed to be struggling right now yeah and you know the fact she's also it sounds like she's not really struggling like it sounds like i think that was the problem everybody was like well she's just out there shopping like and her friend just got murdered and it's like again i don't like i don't know what people expect like put wear a black veil and like cry for you know yeah i don't know i don't know i feel like everybody again nobody knows how they're gonna react and so it's unfair to just watch honestly if you if something happened to you i'd be going shopping too because i would be like i need a fucking distraction i'd be like i deserve a present right now i'm going through it you know you would you would have made a million dollars on twitter tweeting about my death you'd be on

jimmy kimmel i would i'd be like and now i would also i'm gonna go shopping because christine would want this for oh my god yeah so it's just you know and not to make light of the situation obviously but i just think it's really unfair to look at a 20 year old and say well her behavior was irrational it's like that's just not a also by the way that's not evidence right i just want to point that out too like to say somebody acted somebody acted weird, that doesn't mean anything. Like maybe it can give you a hunch, but like it doesn't count as evidence. I guess it does in this case. Someone in prison.

Yes, exactly. So this guy just pisses me off, whatever. But so he at the time was already pretty controversial. He at the time was already pretty controversial. According to Marie Claire, he had been charged with abuse of office in 2006 for allegedly wiretapping phones during a different case. It was the Monster of Florence case. And he had been he was already kind of off the rails with his police work, like already in trouble for crossing certain lines. So not totally surprising. And the conviction ended up being overturned.

So from the get go, he had his eyes set on amanda he said in the documentary she had an attitude towards authority a bit anarchic i don't know if there's an attitude like that in seattle he was like she had such an attitude toward authority and i'm like she was in there for 53 hours being like battered into saying yeah she did it and being sleep deprived on purpose I would also have an attitude against authority at that point or maybe that's this just the Seattle blood maybe that's what Americans do yeah yeah I just ticked me off I was like if you have to spend 53 hours harassing a girl into admitting who's scared out of her mind and who can you don't let her talk to her mother on the phone you don't give her a lawyer i don't know to me that's like cornering

an animal for 53 hours then being like i don't get why like he wants to bite like he's yeah yeah why is he being so aggressive exactly that's exactly the vibe i got of like he's like it's easy to say you didn't do it why didn't she just say that and i'm like she fucking did over and over and over again right just really pisses me off um very gaslighting it's the gaslighting thing i think that i'm that just really got me um so one of the first questions he had about the case was why was the girl meredith covered in the blanket his thinking was a woman who has killed tends to cover the body of female victims a man would never think to do this and i'm like but that's again not evidence and yeah great hunch next that was literally right after he said oh i was always inspired by sherlock holmes and i'm like oh for fuck's sake i'm serious

i was like that is what you're gonna try and lean this on that so you think you're literally sherlock holmes yeah yes good job sherlock hol Holmes would have not looked at a bed sheet and gone, oh, I figured it out. It's a woman. Yeah. And that's not necessarily true. You can't just say one member of the opposite sex would absolutely do this and therefore it has to be a woman. Whatever.

Like, that's just, to me, shitty bullshit. Like, you can try and do, like, some behavioral profiling. Yeah, exactly. But, like, you still don't have a person like you still don't have anyone to confirm that evidence and like to say again like we've talked about that too where you know they they say like women are more likely to kill and with poison for example versus like yes there are definitely trends like that and there's like you said behavioral analysis and psychological analysis yes sure but you can't just say a man would never think to do this yeah they're all guesstimates and also can't be a man also like i'm sorry but if you're gonna say oh it was a woman because like there was a blanket over the body then you

could also say oh it was a man because it was a violent stabbing yes and it was a sexual assault which we'll get into yeah so where's your fucking hunch now oh well don't worry he twists it all into a great story so okay well here we go he just can't let go of this amanda theory it really ticks me off obviously um so he, a man would never think to do this. He also thought that it was a staged break-in. Someone was throwing off suspicions from someone who has a connection to the case. Again, all because of this blanket, I guess. So Knox first finally received legal counsel on November 11th, where she retracted her confession, stating it had been forced out of her after hours of relentless and threatening interrogation and like physical violence by the way uh by police in italian without a lawyer present uh also la mamba the boss had an alibi he had literally been working that entire night so

everybody at the bar was like so their entire fucking theory just like completely goes out the window was not there exactly so it's like she says oh yeah he was there because they said you must have seen him you must have met with him and she's like yeah okay he was there like he literally physically was not and so he gets off the hook so he's released off so he is but but they're still sticking with the story that requires them to be there for her so they're now twisting the story into okay fine it wasn't the boss it was now amanda and her boyfriend rafael who's still in prison because they've imprisoned all three of them so they let lamumba go and go well then amanda just added this third party and like she's still guilty it doesn't make any sense

um again they hadn't found a murder weapon and november 15 2007 thanks to an order uh ordered search by manini an incriminating kitchen knife is reported to have been found at solish soleshito's home which is rafael's house the eight inch knife had traces of amanda's blood on the handle or not blood sorry amanda's dna on the handle and meredith kircher's dna on the blade so they tell this to to amanda and she was like i literally have no explanation for that like why she's like that when i don't have an explanation for why would meredith's dna be on the blade of my boyfriend's kitchen knife like she just says like that one i didn't know i didn't know what to do or say so rafael disputed this, saying he had accidentally, like, he was cooking with Amanda and Meredith. Maybe that's where it came from, but nobody knew where this DNA was coming from.

And they were getting more evidence returning from the lab. One of the clasps from Meredith's bra was found in her room, which had Amanda's DNA on it. amanda's dna on it and from the investigator's point of view this was painting a clear picture that amanda had been involved uh somehow in meredith's death and she had forced her into some sort of sex game and it had gone horribly wrong and like i laugh because it's like where are we jumping from like to get to this fucking conclusion is insane without any context correct like there's a facebook tag like group that you can tag i think it's like are you a yoga teacher because wow what a stretch or something it's like right yeah what on earth are you talking about like where are you coming from because is there any like do we get any more information on where that comes from or it's just the new theory it's just based on foxy noxy and her behavior

quote unquote oh my god and saying she's just uh a very sexual person which god forbid right like a woman be a sexual person um and so she must have forced this poor girl meredith into this sex game and ended up murdering her and it's like this is like one of those things where it's like a lot of times the easiest fucking solution is the answer. Most basic. And like, this is the most extremely twisted, bizarre adventure you're going on. Yeah. And everyone's believing this. So he kind of has his talents in this theory and the police are just like

trying to build the case off of that. Like they really think she did it and that she is some sex crazed psychopath. And a lot of people still believe that. Cause I because i mean again it got spun so out of control um this poor woman it's horrible it's really horrible i mean assuming that she is innocent assuming she's innocent all signs point in my opinion to her being innocent in which case this poor woman yes and i understand obviously like if it's presented in a certain light yes you're more likely to feel a certain way but i don't know i have a very hard time believing that and you're usually not someone who openly picks a side

i try not to right yeah exactly and like i've always believed she was innocent even back in 2008 or 9 or whenever this was blowing up like i never not that i never knew whether she was innocent even back in 2008 or 9 or whenever this was blowing up like i never not that i never knew whether she was innocent but i always saw like something this is not being covered correctly that she's not being treated right things always just seemed off no matter what the outcome was in my opinion so listen i'm just telling y'all what happened um so they say we got the dna and amanda is like i don't know how that happened it's not good i don't know how that happened so they find the bra it has amanda's dna on it as well it must be a sex thing so more intriguingly the dna that was found inside meredith's body from the sexual

assault uh were not from rafael or lamumba um they were from a different man altogether so now we get a third party back into the case okay so they found dna in meredith's body as well as in the bloody prints on her bedding her purse a footprint around the crime scene and various other places around her body they traced it to that of a 20 year old man named rudy gedde and he is now the third party in this scenario so according to a book called the fatal gift of beauty the trials of amanda knox by nino burley rudy gedde was originally from the ivory coast but had lived in perugia ever since he was five had been adopted at age 17 around the time of meredith's murder he had met a couple of the Italian men from the lower

level of this cottage, and he spent evenings at the basketball court nearby. And he apparently committed break-ins. He was, you know, a petty criminal. He had even broken into a lawyer's office through a second floor window. So that's familiar. He had even broken into a lawyer's office through a second floor window. So that's familiar. And he had burgled an apartment, brandished a jackknife at somebody when confronted.

And a few days before Kircher's murder, Meredith's murder, he was arrested in Milan after breaking into a nursery school where he was reportedly found with an 11-inch knife that had been taken from the school kitchen. Whoa. So this guy already has a rap sheet yeah burglarizing and threatening with a knife um and he hangs out downstairs like of the building like he's friends with the guys downstairs okay so now they find his dna all over the crime scene and inside her body so then he fled town they were like where is he well he's fled the country i'm sorry but so far ding ding ding like this seems like ding fucking ding yeah this is right off to no end i'm like the simplest fucking solution is the answer i like we like to not believe that because it makes it

more crazy of a story especially when it's like you know i mean you just listed like three at least three massive red flags to me of like this person should at least be strongly considered well he was so he is brought in fleas right well so he flees the country so they find him on a train in germany they bring him in for questioning he admits that he was in meredith's room the night of her murder according to cnn he admits to police that he had sexual relations with Meredith, but says another man killed her while he was in the bathroom. Oh, right. That's how it always goes. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Okay. What are you talking about? He's like, I went to the bathroom after we had sex, and then I, like, heard something, and I checked, and she was dead. And it's like, what are you talking about? So he's like, then I went over, and she was holding on to me and i was covered in blood so i got scared and i ran away that's you know what and sadly based on the the people that were interviewing amanda knox said in the beginning of the story it sounds like they would hear that story and go that makes sense

off you go a man of us have climbed through a window with a knife and it's just like what are you talking about so this is his fucking story that he is just and by the way he he said amanda was not there he was like i didn't see amanda nothing to do with amanda so he just like flat out fucking confessed and they literally said he was in the fucking room minutes and then also took everyone else off the hook too being like instead amanda was not there exactly yes exactly this is why i'm so ticked off so so that's what he says happened while all this is happening meredith's parents uh arlene and john her sister stephanie and her brothers john and lyle um led an hour-long funeral service in memory of their daughter in south london um it's really really really really fucking sad and horrible um you can see

stephanie like talking to the media about it um and again i just feel like they get so brushed aside during this whole dramatic sex-fueled story it's like nobody remembers what's about to begin with which is like right it's horrible horrible event so while all this is happening um the you know meredith's being honored in her hometown and meanwhile rudy amanda so rudy get a the guy just talked about amanda and rafael are now all three charged together with the murder of meredith because even though get is basically confessed to fucking being there they're like well you must have done it with amanda and rafa like they must have been part of this why why are we combining a story why are we combining a story that literally nobody none of the three even implied one of them even said hey not true all

me she made out with a guy a boy outside and they're like yeah yeah yeah all you all you but also these two people because you're a sex demon The names that they came up with in these headlines are like, holy shit. I mean, sex demon. This is so fucked, this story. It's so fucked up. It really pisses me off. Really, it does. Oh, my God.

Anyway. So they're charged with the murder of Meredith. A couple months later, on September 6, 2008, Rudy Getty and his defense attorney ask to separate the trials because his lawyer is pretty smart and is like, if we all three go into the trial, they're going to turn this on Rudy, which like, yes, because he did it, but whatever. So they're going to turn it

on him, so we want a separate trial so that we get a fair shot. So the defense attorney commented, in recent weeks, a lot of poison has been spread by the defense teams, okay, and we feel the necessity to find some form of serenity in a separate hearing so rudy is given his own fucking trial i guess he gets what he wants but whatever fine okay so in terms of where nox and where amanda

and rafael are during this time they are still in jail in prison and uh she can't even this is horrible um you're just gonna get even more mad now um by the way we're almost done with part one so don't worry folks sorry i'm like talking so much but no so amanda keeps a diary in prison and it is leaked to the media uh somebody takes this diary and the newspapers print the entire thing because in her private diary she writes and reflects on sex i know it's so cringy it's so so so i this is a nervous smile that is so revolting it's revolting that is so first of all just plain old embarrassing second of all demeaning to her it's just only like discrediting her further while slut shaming her she's got

literally nothing left to do but be stuck in a prison scared for her life she's writing and now all of her secrets have been published while now she's imprisoned and like also like as far as i'm concerned way not deserving of being in prison and it gets worse just how the fuck does it get worse oh um okay so she's writing about sex right like which god forbid a woman do to begin with um right well we don't't, you know, we can't stand the idea of a woman even knowing what sex is. It just happens. It just happens. And we're not part of it.

It's so their headlines released like Secret Diary reveals Foxy Noxy was always thinking about sex. That's from the Daily Mail. There's just they're all like that. And the Daily Mail article writes on one page of the diary, she lists four men in Seattle and New York and three in Florence and Perugia, all of whom she has had sex with. That's seven people. It's, I just don't understand why this is news.

First of all, okay, and? And. Like, big, big, so what? What's the point? Where's the evidence? Why do we care? Why do we care? Of course, everybody fucking cares.

what's the point where's the evidence why do we care why do we care of course everybody fucking cares so this is obviously like she has a right to write about whoever she has her sexual partners but the reason she wrote this to begin with is not for fun it's because while in prison they told her she was hiv positive even though she fucking wasn't it was like a tactic christine i'm not kidding you they literally told i'm like it makes me fucking made her fear for her life yes she literally was sick and so now she's like writing a list of all the people that that might have infected her that she wants to reach out to when she can 100 she wrote a list and she said like i use protection with this person um i use protection with this person and it was seven people she went through the list was like trying to figure out where this could have come from she was freaking out she was like they told

her she was going to develop aids she said um i've always wanted a family but i guess that's out of the question um i just want i just want my life and so all of this is fucking printed across splash across headlines internationally and like again she's not just sitting there going i had which she has every right to do by the way like i had sex with this person it was fun no it was literally a list of potential people she could have contracted hiv from or that she would like you said need to contact and so they fucking printed this as like again the most slut shamey like. And also like very microscopic small note too.

But like those seven guys could have also then read in the paper that they might have HIV. Right, that's true too. So now you're ruining like seven other people's lives when it's like it wasn't true. Yeah, exactly. Sorry. That's like such a small thing. No, but you're right. Like you're just, they're not even, there's no concept of the lives you're ruining. No, no, no.

They're just playing around with, like, fake information. So they tell her she has, she's HIV positive. It's the mental fucking torture. It is. So at this point, like, am I allowed, is this, like, too controversial to say that, like, fuck these cops? I'm over it. I have zero patience for this story. Because, like, fuck these cops i'm i'm over it i have zero patience for this story because like fuck these cops zero patients these cops i know people might be like no but you don't understand she's guilty i'm sorry i whether she's guilty or not sorry i'll

just add right now like whether she's guilty or not that doesn't matter in relation to this like i'm still upset about this none of the last 10 minutes of what you said should have happened whether or not this is a murderer or not they think they're in the right to tell somebody you have hiv someone someone said let's go tell her she has hiv that'll work and see what happens yep then somebody leaked her diary after that to the police or to the media it's the amount of people that all had one horrific idea like like let's go tell her she has hiv let's go steal her diary let's publish it let's like and for what like none of this is even giving you information about the murder like it has nothing it's literally

just turning the world against her um yep sorry i just fuck this story i'm so glad that you agree with me because i was getting i was like ripping my hair out i was so angry watching and like i know the story but i just it but like she's irrational also by the way yeah exactly are you fucking kidding me exactly okay and the guy still to this day claims like oh no like we did everything right she's just irrational and she's the devil blah blah blah yeah yeah yeah it's her fault i'm i'm one of the good ones exactly exactly so according to romper.com um after being told she was hiv positive again she was not uh nox made a list of those she had slept with from the past those sexual partners were then leaked to the media only adding fuel to the whole foxy noxie bullshit and one element of the diary that like sure was a little odd but again it's her personal fucking diary if

anybody revealed my diary i don't think it would probably be cool i would simply disappear i would i would vanish i would immediately melt into the ground and be like well so long yeah it's so she had she wrote at one point in the journal the strange thing is after all that has happened i want to write a song about all this it would be the first song i've ever written and would speak about how someone died in a horrible way and for no reason so of course i was like oh now she's gonna write a song about it and it's like i think she's processing it is my opinion but i feel like that song by the way would be the most epic emo emo screamo it's a little bit like it's definitely cringe but it's also like it's her diary she didn't like release a music video on mtv whatever so she also says i'm dying of hunger i

really want to say that i could murder a pizza but that doesn't seem right which is like again these are the thoughts you have in your head that you don't ever want revealed and like that's kind of what this is like right she would never have said that out loud and sure it seems fucked up but it's like when you think when you think you're alone in your thoughts like you feel safe to say things you normally wouldn't say yeah exactly exactly my thoughts exactly so alongside these confessions and revelations she also writes i'm angry at the beginning i was shocked then sad then confused now i really angry. I don't know. I never saw her body and I never saw her blood. So it's as if it hasn't happened. Followed by, and this is, I think, related to the HIV thing.

I don't want to die. I want my life. And it's like, they're just picking and choosing lines to reveal and make her look, you know, a certain way. And so legally speaking, this is the last bit here. Rudy goes ahead with his separate trial and thankfully on october 28 2008 he's found guilty of the murder of meredith and sentenced to 30 years in prison which like he doesn't i don't think he even served the full 30

so it's like wow okay fuck you but whatever okay so then uh amanda and rafael are ordered to stand trial in three months time as his accomplices as rudy's accomplices in this murder so like he's already been sentenced yes literally confessed to not having accomplices and now these two people have to stay in jail for three more months yes exactly so for for for zero evidence if anything anti-evidence that has confirmed they were not there so fun fact rudy changes his story and says he saw the silhouette of amanda outside the window oh for fuck's sake okay and that somehow still ties back to okay so she was there and it's like what are you talking about her silhouette so so anyway so now he's saying yes amanda was there

because well sure he's trying to get himself off the hook somewhat. Like, of course, he's going to say, oh, yeah. Well, if I'm already going to jail, let's at least shave off a couple of years. Yeah. And like, oh, I had an accomplice or she did it first or. Yes, precisely. So they're ordered to stand trial in the run up for the trial. The media became obsessed with this like sex addict narrative. Again, it's whatever. it is what it is foxy noxy fueled this along um the prosecutor giuliano minini who i do not like is sure that all this

started as literally this is what he says a halloween inspired sex game what that he that they forced meredith to participate in i can't. I can't with this. Is this the second sex game theory? This is his sex game theory that he's now transformed into. It's a Halloween sex game. Oh, right. The only way to play, by the way. But why?

Because it was October? Because it was Halloween or the day after Halloween. What? Because she was found November 2nd. I don't know. There's no right for my own for my own my own morbid curiosity were there rules to this halloween sexy i'm sure he invented them i'm sure he wrote them in his own fucking diary which i would wish they would release to the public um so he describes on the netflix documentary what he believes happened that night

so here's a description of this halloween. That night, let's imagine what Meredith finds. She sees suddenly in her house Amanda, which is okay, but also Solicito and Rudy. And she's like, what? Meredith couldn't take it anymore. She must have scolded Amanda for her lack of morals. Amanda must have felt humiliated, irritated. So you want to judge my morals so harshly? Now I'm going to

show you what happens she is a very proud girl a crescendo of attacks nox stabs kircher in the throat while soleshito held her down and gary tried to sexually assault her that's his fucking story that's his story horrible and also like why is this the first appearing of it if it's are you coming up with this fucking story so all three of them together like we're in in this like formed an alliance and caused this because she's sex crazed and so what like the two of them who are not sex crazy yeah but they he said they wanted to prove themselves to her or please her for any means by any means because they're men and of course they're going to just try to please her but she's sex crazed and evil so she's gonna run the whole show i can't say for fuck's sake one more time i just can't do it and i'm but i'm that'll be the show notes just ffs can that just be the title of this episode for fuck's sake

it's so infuriating it's so infuriating so and there was like a there's a fucking like reenactment that i think it was in taiwan they like created for the news they created like this 3d reenactment of like then uh of this story this is a story that giuliano has come up with um that she's confronted and she's so i'll show you what happens now and like god stabs her throat because the reenactments really get me it's like first of all like it was all right this storyline is cringy let alone someone having to act it out yeah oh it's not it's it's sorry it's like a 3d like pixelated like animation okay which makes it even makes it weirder yeah i can't tell i can't tell either it's all just so cringe so that's the first half and then we'll go over what the fuck happens next

week well thank god because my brain was good i know i know that was a lot i've been absorbed in this for the last like 48 hours and it's starting to really wear on me mentally but you know what gets me jazzed though is like all of this energy you've just given me i'm a i this weekend i'm going to a rage room you are fun now i have something to just think about well that's great i could sledgehammering i could call you all day and give you some stuff if you need it good excellent i'm sure you could well this is definitely going to be the forefront of it so oh my god every time i smash a television this weekend know that it's for amanda knox oh i know this story and it's so controversial because i know some people really

swear that she's guilty i just don't feel that way so sorry sorry as far as i know with the information i'm being given i also do not think that i i i i need someone to prove it to me and this has not proven it to me is what i'm gonna say if you're gonna tell me it's some version of like a raunchy sex game gone wrong but also she wasn't there but also she was but also she's irrational but also she doesn't have hiv and like yeah we're gonna pretend like she does none of it seems right and all of it seems like hr needs to be involved yes and i'm like just fucking i'm like prove it to me give me some evidence there's nothing sorry there's nothing the only evidence there is is all pointing

to the fact that it was rudy and nobody else completely like his like that's the evidence but apparently we're fucking ignoring it so whatever exactly pisses me off well fun fact i i'm gonna go scream into a pillow but first do you have the size of your little hellion in your belly yes this week the baby will be the size of the plate of spaghetti from lady and the tramp you told me it last time and i got so i did yeah because i was like because i'm like how on earth do you have that frame of reference is that bigger or smaller than a normal that's right i did get ahead of myself last wait is this for oh no this is for the week after okay sorry yeah so uh now it's the size of like a car from cars i don't know what tickle me elmo okay i can rock that that that fits better now let's see what

this one says that's a full-blown baby also buzz lightyear in toy story so yeah that love buzz lightyear and by the way sideways just saying does your baby's little wings pop out like to infinity yeah that's what you're feeling i was gonna say wings expand by the way yes they do because it fucking hurts um but yes so buzz lightyear and uh tickle me elmo creepy thoughts i'm gonna have creepy dreams think about your baby tickling you from the inside i'm funny i'mmo creepy thoughts i'm gonna have creepy dreams think about your baby tickling you from the inside i'm funny i'm gonna stop not i'm gonna not think about everything you tell me to think about because it's never a good thing you know i'm just gonna say i just i

i am gonna miss telling you little nightmares uh once you have this baby you know what you know you know i can play this game right back at you right when when when i've when i've got a baby in my belly no but again no try again my friend i have my own methods of my madness i feel like you're gonna mail me a baby monitor and i'll have to listen to them scream all the time i feel like i could just tell you like horror stories and like freak you out i don't know oh we'll see good luck or i'll just say like every time every time whenever you have a kid i'll be like oh my gosh your kid is like looking in the corner all day like what are they looking at like i'll play mind games with you don't worry you're only gonna get

good at it because you're gonna steal my ideas every yeah you're right you're already a step ahead of me i know just get ready when your baby learns how to text i'm gonna be like your kid is seeing some weird shit and like look at our messages back and forth first of all ignore all the ones where we talk shit about you second of all look at like the things that they're telling me in the middle of the night about what they're seeing and they're afraid to say you know oh stop it oh i'm gonna lose this game no matter what anyway anyway thanks for listening thank you thank you for listening thank you thank you for listening i guess and also um i wish you well with your little tickle me i'll know thanks so

much um i guess we have to i have to listen to another whole half of this next week huh um yep come back soon yay and that's why we drink isn't that fucking horrible