And That's Why We Drink - E240 A Haunted Hotline and a Vegan Doc Marten Sized Baby

Episode Date: September 12, 2021

Welcome to episode 240! We've got the conclusions to both of our two-parters this week. First Em closes out the history of Ed and Lorraine Warren and their paranormal fame, as well as their potentially problematic side. Then Christine brings us the conclusion to the infuriating Amanda Knox saga, a story that affects Em unlike any other. And has Christine acquired her own personal dumpster? ...and that's why we drink! 

oh emothy christopoulos i miss you i miss you we were supposed to be recording for the last literal hour and we just were talking the whole time yeah that's how you knew that's how you know it's going to be a good episode though because we're clearly just ready to chit chat we talked about like waffle house like finding bugs in your food you really didn't talk at all i just i reacted with a lot of so a lot of cockroaches have followed me to virginia yeah i don't love that about you i'm not feeling right now now no I'm like kind of paranoid that like one of them like laid an egg on me and I just carry them everywhere with me it's very gross I kept going the eggs it's just so foul also if I'm talking can you hear me fine right now yes I can hear you am I too loud no I'm talking a little closer to the microphone because my mom actually works in

the basement and she's she's like not necessarily super close to me but i also know that my voice carries and tom is right there what's up tom did you need something i'm just checking out oh the food looks good from this angle he was he was uh monitoring the cat food which is nice most stepdad thing i've ever heard i was gonna say my stepdad literally monitors our cat his cat's food so that's by the way i'm next to the cat food in case you didn't know um but my my mom is working in the basement too so if I know my voice carries, so I'm trying to be a little quieter. So I don't scream, what the fuck, while she's on the phone with a client.

Oh my god. That's my grown child in the background. Don't worry about it. Nothing to see here. Just my nearly 30-year-old baby. Who works on the internet. Don't even make me explain it. Anyway, how are you you what's going on

listen well um i have a slight update as to why i drink this week which is that i found out that if this baby doesn't flip itself which i realize i call it like i called it the completely wrong term i called it i forget what i called it but it's an ecv where they try to flip your baby and so you said CSV or something yes or something stupid hey I will bring you something from CVS though if that's the case there actually is a test a CVS test that you can do anyway whatever so either I just already foresee people being like Christine wow you need to like read an article or something but go to school dummy school go back to school i don't think that

they're gonna offer that i don't know though but so it's like where they manually try to flip the baby um but so if the baby doesn't flip i'm getting an ultrasound next week if the baby doesn't flip then i have to they're scheduling a c-section for 39 weeks so i have like the next potential date no well when this comes out maybe i don't know no two weeks from when this comes out i think so like wow that's really soon it would be september 24th i think okay thank god like for sure not a scorpio though so like we're in the clear no it would be closer to a virgo than a scorpio i just if the baby isn't a gemini do we really love it you know so the answer is no

but like i know that's too late for that right like all right maybe maybe it'll be like gemini moon gemini rising you know gemini rising wouldn't be very interesting did you know blaze is a gemini rising and that's why that's not true it is and i was like why on earth does a capricorn marry me and why do i marry capricorn doesn't make any sense he has gemini in him makes a lot of sense now very interesting anyway so okay so the baby will be here only like a week earlier two weeks earlier it would be like a week before the due date but like for some reason still freak you out oh fully and september 24th is like less than a month from today as we're recording this which is like holy crap huh we better catch up on episodes i see where you're coming from now we're gonna

figure it out we i to everyone listening we are going to figure it out i don't know how but there you will still be getting your weekly scheduled episodes we just don't know how because christine won't be available i keep being i'll be here but i don't know where you'll be m's gonna be the mc just like so the mc the mc christine that's very cute uh yeah i'm gonna write that down just kidding i'm gonna carry this show on my back for an entire maternity leave i'm gonna try to come back and i'm gonna be like actually we've kind of moved on to like the demographic has changed we've taken some surveys we've taken polls just aren't into you they're not feeling it with you and they have a big beef a big beef with your fucking baby

actually yeah well so do i at this point so it's fine i get it do you watch i know you don't watch this um but it's called the uh the real life bros of simi valley what the hell are you okay it's so funny so i used to work on it at iss and so that's where i, sorry, I had milk. Why? Why would you do that? Because I'm stupid. So I would have never heard about this show if I wasn't working on it. But I could not.

It was the funniest thing because it was literally like people from Simi Valley in California. Yeah. Like acting out satire of the worst tropes of people that live in Simi Valley like a satirical show yeah it's supposed to be a reality show about these guys from Simi Valley but it's these guys clearly act like overhyping like the vibe which is like very like you know bros I mean if you're not from there it might not make sense but just go watch I think it's on Facebook if anyone ever wants a request it's very funny whether or not you know the area i'd enjoy well they're uh one of them uh ends up getting a girl pregnant and having a baby and uh his best friend has like real beef with the baby and like there's times he's like

this little this little bro's just staring at me yo yo and he's like talking to his best friend who's the dad he's like yo get your boy i'm about to go crazy with him we're about to throw hands oh my god hold me back hold me back hold me back you don't even want this you don't even want this smoke and so uh i think about me and your baby and i'm like one day i'm gonna be like yo christine get your baby it's gonna get crazy over here because they're not letting me share cheerios it's getting where i'm losing it over here so they tried to take your food is probably what's gonna happen and you're gonna lose your mind oh i'll look you in the eye and i'll be like this relationship with the baby sorry it's over it's over okay anyway anyway how are you you're good i'm good i'm i i mean i feel like i've complained about a lot of things. More importantly, how's the cat food? It's, you know, we're at a steady incline.

Oh, that's good. I don't know why he came down here to check when there's a whole extra bag right next to me. Probably because you were screaming about cockroaches. I don't know what his deal is. I do appreciate him. He is quite the house dad. Every time I, like, look around and see what he's up to, he's just, like, doing a different. His love language is acts of service. That's how my stepdad is. It's so funny. dad every time i like look around see what he's up to he's just like doing a different his his

love language is acts of service and so that's how my stepdad is it's so funny he's like i love it i'm just i'm just cleaning the pool i'm just cleaning the garage i'm just like sit down my guy my stepdad will be like can i come over and i'm like okay so he has a project he wants to do he doesn't want to so i'm like sure and i'll come over be like i want to take all these cardboard boxes to the recycling center and i'm like all right come over I'll come over and be like, I want to take all these cardboard boxes to the recycling center. And I'm like, all right, come over. Come hang out. I'll sit in the corner watching TikTok and you can clear out all the trash in my house.

If I ever lived closer to this house, I kind of wonder and fear that Tom would always be over doing something. And I'd be like, I don't need that. But thank you. Yeah, it's very helpful. And my stepdad has a very good gauge of like, I'm not just going to show up, which is nice. But I just, fun fact, we have a dumpster now.

I've never been so excited about something. You mean a permanent outdoor trash pile. Not a permanent, but semi-permanent because they're working on our garage. So with the house, we got this decrepit abandoned dentist's office that's also very haunted yes um and so part of the thing is that we're going to try to turn it into a garage so that's been like a year and a half in the making it's like a nightmare but they're finally starting it this week on I think Wednesday of this week they started

it finally and they brought a massive dumpster and i'm like oh my god all of my boxes and shit that have just been piling up i can put in the dumpster and i'm so excited this is what i get excited about now as i'm 30 years old wow you're a mom absolutely yeah i just love i just love finally having somewhere to put all my trash i just have so much trash all the time i don't know how you accumulate as much i don't either it's bad like my mom will come over and be like again and i'm like i don't know i think it's because we order so much stuff like we order geo's dog food we order the cat food we order daily harvest we order hello fresh like i feel like every week there's like a new box that i get have to get rid of i don't know i also my problem

i also accumulate a lot of trash but nothing like you you. That's Olympic level. It's sad. It's really like I need to be better to the planet. I don't know. So, yes. And I also very much insist on recycling. And then our recycling bin is full. And I'm like, well, got to wait till the recycling bin is empty so we never catch up. You know?

I hear you. Maybe get two recycling bins. I tried that. that they were like you can't have that oh i can't doubly save the planet that's interesting i'm not allowed to so is that why you drink you've got that's why well also because i potential plant c-section for the 24th so good luck is it the 24th now or the 19th is it the 24th now or the 19th oh no it's the 24th if um it's week 39 the 24th of september i see if the baby doesn't flip oh all right good to know we'll see what i can pull off here i got a yoga ball i'll try my best just good luck i don't know what to tell you my doctors like have a conversation and i was like i it's not working they don't baby doesn't listen to me anyway just knock on the belly and be like get out get out excuse me so my story is a is the part two to ed and lorraine warren um the scandals

yes and last week uh if you want to go back and listen to that episode it was the kind of like a quick summary like a like a little biography of how they came to be um and this week is going to be the scandals surrounding them which doesn't always mean that they're involved because so the warrens they are the inspiration for the Conjuring series. And there's also been some lawsuit issues with the Conjuring franchise, which we'll talk about just because I want to cover everything. Y'all, I appreciate that everyone asked for me to cover the Warrens, but nobody really gave me like any direction. I need some guidance and structure.

Yeah, because everyone was like, just do Ed and Lorraine Warren. And I was like, do you want me to just do their entire life? Because if they did literally, what, it was like 10,000 cases or something? I was like, this is me telling about Ed and Lorraine. The podcast is me. You have an episode for the rest of time. Like, we have 10,000 stories, apparently. Apparently so.

And so I didn't know what people meant by that. But then I have seen online. I was unaware up until people started telling me that I guess the Warrens are really problematic. And I did not know that. Oh. Yes. Because I've seen people write in being like, why do you support the Warrens? And I was like, first of all, I don't think I ever said I support the Warrens.

I don't think so either. I just like that they're like, how cool is it to be a main character in all these ghost stories like that's all they just seem like like they're characters yeah it just seems like they're always there but anyway people took that as me like siding with them as if i knew what the other information was so i i'm just covering everything because i don't know what the fuck people are hoping for. And I just want to just make sure I, you know, give them what they want. And if I miss something for the people who seem to know more about this before I did, like, and that's not, you know, me trying to be, if you genuinely know more about this than I do please write in if i missed something because i tried and i don't feel like there was actually like a like any one large specific crisis um i saw i

found like two like one is just like the people being skeptical of them but or like that they are potentially grifters but there was never like a solid issue. Like a mean storyline. Yeah. And then one comes out because of the lawsuits with the Conjuring universe. Okay. But other than that, I don't know what people were looking for. So let me know. Okay.

So let's start with the skepticism people had around the legitimacy of their work slash the chance that they were potentially grifting and just doing all this for money and fame and they weren't actually valid and right so um there's a lot of skepticism about the warrens and the legitimacy of their cases and the main concern was that no one ever saw any hard evidence of a haunting that couldn't be refuted or have an an easy excuse so people even started doubting lorraine's gifts and like i said in the last episode she got tested to prove that her gifts are actually far above average so that was her way of kind of shutting people up and making herself feel valid but apparently the ridicule really ate her up oh no of people judging her so only she truly knows if her gifts were legit or not but i would say at least one person in those 10 000 cases thinks that lorraine really saved their life so um you know run with that how you will. Yeah. Some say that they might have actually just made up each of the cases for,

or like they would have made up whatever proof that they claimed they found purely for clout. So like if they said, oh, we got this audio or we got these pictures. Basically it's like today's version of ghost adventures. Like, okay, you technically got evidence, but like it could all more or less be excused if you're not a believer. It's easy to say like, oh, the picture was doctored or this audio wasn't legit. Yeah.

So and I did mention this last time, too, that they were devout Catholics. Ed happily admitted that he would do things for clout and money if it meant that their fame would rise so people would pay attention to them so that he could have a larger audience to expose the devil to. And a lot of people could see that as like, okay, he's a devout Catholic and doing what he needs to to fight for God or something. But other people could also say like he literally admitted he's a clout chaser. Right. Like he wants an audience yeah and he's like hiding behind the fact that he's catholic to like make it seem valid or something right one of the issues that people take with him and their their intense catholicism and then like using this as like a don't get into the occult they just happened to be really big during

the 70s and the 80s which was during the satanic panic and so it's almost like they put themselves in the front lines of being the prime leaders before there were any other famous experts to rely on about this so whatever they said went especially when there was a bunch of parents fearing for their kids that they were like going to get into the occult and shit. So, you know, parents were making their kids go to these lectures. Colleges were worried about their students. It would make them go to lectures. It was like a huge college circuit that they ran.

That's crazy. Because there was this fear that the teens are going to get into witchcraft. So, by the way, also in 2021, it's like not a cute look that they were using this propaganda to like make people afraid of witches let's put it that way yeah i mean it's all very bizarre and like it's questionable he they also um it was a really uh i always have really intelligent or ingenious idea of like this is a really spooky thing that people want to hear about but also parents see us as protecting their kids and so I mean it was like the perfect storm to have people selling out your lecture halls because people want to go see a bunch of scary pictures and hear ghost stories and get creeped out and but at the same time you're teaching them a lesson so it was like

it was a very perfect storm for them to always um like if that was the class credit i'd be like sure i'll go exactly so it was it was very easy for them to make their money by saying like we've done really scary stuff come to our lecture and find out and so even though they find out how dangerous it is yeah bingo so even if they were never actually making any money off of their investigations um they were still making money off of people wanting to hear about the investigation right and it gives people even more reason to say like they never needed money for the investigation because they knew that they were going into an empty house without ghosts and there was nothing to find and they didn't even want to get charged to just like

stand in a room that they knew wasn't threatening they just wanted the money later to talk about how scary it was um so uh plus on top of their lecture circuit and their speaking engagements they also made uh i'm sure they made a bunch of money from like selling their rights to like the amityville story and things like that which sold like crazy. So just having their name attached to it, you know, made them super big. They were doing press junkets. They were on TV shows.

I mentioned a lot of this last time, but I just want to go over it again that like they were getting a lot of media appearances and all of them, they were getting paid for. A lot of times they would claim that hauntings only came from engaging in a cult activity or sinning in some way they were very conservative yeah so apparently i didn't read the book so i could be totally wrong but the sources i was reading it looks like they read the book they were saying that i know someone read the book so it's called the

demonologist i mentioned it a little bit later actually um but it's from 1980 it's the demonologist and uh i guess it really shows how um stern or how strict in their religion that they were uh that the warrens were but it seems that they would say basically any version of you sinning, you're just opening a portal to the devil. Like they were like really strict, straight out of the forties, you know, good Christian.

Wow. I must be sucked into some wormhole then. Cause I know. So some say that they may have actually, I don't know if this is true or not, but there is the rumor that they might've actually turned families away who weren't religious because they were less likely to fall for any hauntings that they might have been trying to uh convince you of um i don't think that's true if they're doing 10 000 cases in 20 years 10 000 strict

catholics i would say but i mean what do i know but skeptics will probably say like oh and they found people who were the most vulnerable to believe them you know sure sure so uh and also it was a little skeevy to people that they were also bringing in their own film crews for like local news affiliates and things like that i've heard about that so like in amityville they brought their own little film crew okay um and that picture of the ghost boy by the stairs that is like super freaky it like looks like a real alive human child um people are like that literally could have just been a human child i mean everyone in the amityville story says there was nobody in the house there were no children in the house do i know that story that picture i must if you if you saw it you would know it here. Amityville. Sorry. Boy picture.

It's so, the story goes that they, Lorraine felt something by the stairs and took a picture. Okay. And there's a very creepy picture of a little boy leaning over the stairwell. Oh, wait, I do remember this. Did you talk about this in the the amityville episode maybe i'm gonna send you the picture okay um but the i do feel like apparently the boy looks like one of the defao children who was oh yes you did oh my god yes we literally have this on our instagram from way back when from way back when we should repost it we'll repost it but yeah okay i see

where you could be like i mean it literally looks like a child like i mean yeah if you if you believe in the warrens and what they're doing and you also just read the amityville books you just saw the amityville movie you know that they're attached and like everyone is saying that this picture is legitimate you know it would be really cool if it was legitimate it'd be really scary if it was legitimate but realistically a skeptic could be like, they literally just took a picture of a fucking kid. Like,

are you kidding? So I don't know. There's it's like that picture. I don't know if they ever like sold it for any money or anything, but the fact that they even had the local news come, it's, it's almost like they're doing all of this really elaborate stuff just to really blow your mind so that they lecture tickets cost more next time or something.

I mean, a lot of people think that every step was a planned grifting tactic of if your mind is blown here, just wait to see this picture later. And what if you see this later and this later? So it was all building up on their fame. Okay. I feel like a lot of this is repetitive, but I'm just saying as much as I can. No, no, that makes sense. Like, that's the critique. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all of this just sounds like, you know, swindling. Yeah, it's like any sort of skeptic of a ghost hunter medium anything like that i think similar exactly i would love to see a world where harry houdini was alive but at the same time as the warrants because they might have been real opposites you know he would have found a way into one of their investigations and zb i feel like that would have been quite oh my god a daytime talk show situation you know zach would have harry houdini on the show just to

blow his fucking mind a hundred percent a hundred percent um okay so uh oh plus there's this weird information i got this from a youtube channel what was the youtube video called this was the only place i saw this information but um it was called possessed by horror edin lorraine warren were liars question mark and it was kind of a compilation of different cases they've done that felt a little shady but apparently during the amityville case information came out later that um so for those of you who don't know about the story about the amityville horror is that this house in new york the defayo family lived there and their oldest son claims he was possessed by the devil and murdered his entire family

and that was episode five correct four four four and i will do a retelling of that because i'm sure my information will be a little crisper next time um but so he killed his whole family and then only a very short turnaround later the lutz family moved in because it was cheap and they claim to have been haunted by either the children from the the family that died before them or the same demon that was possessing ronald and they only lived in that house for 28 days and when after on the by the 28th day it was so horrible that they literally left the house in the middle of the night and never came back for their belongings so and this house is in new york amityville new york yeah amityville new york. So there apparently was some information that came out, and this could have totally been

someone making this up to make the Warrens look bad, but the information's there, that the DeFeo's lawyer, when Ronald DeFeo was put on trial for murdering his family, his lawyer at one point formed an alliance with the Lutz family who moved in after the deaths oh apparently that lawyer heard that the Lutzes were moving into the house and like hung out with them uh to make that to like almost get a story together apparently they had like a creative writing session of sorts okay um where basically they wanted to figure out a a horrific tale about what the Lutzes are going through it as a way to get basically a testimony proving that Ronald DeFeo was in fact haunted by something demonic okay does that make sense sort of sorry I think I'm so Ronaldonald de feo who killed his family

his lawyer found out that the new lawyer yeah he that lawyer started talking to the lutz family who moved in after the murders right um and he was i i guess they were trying to build a case together or he they made some sort of agreement where the Lutzes were talking about how scary that house was because it was clearly haunted and the lawyer wanted to use that story to defend his client. This is like his defense attorney who's like I'm talking to the new family and they are also saying this place is super haunted and therefore Ronald DeFedo wasn't actually a murderer he was in fact possessed by the devil and you can play insanity see okay that makes total sense yes and there was even discussion that maybe ronald de feo's um lawyer hired the

warrens to be a part of the investigation because they seemed really credible and maybe if the warrens were doing an investigation at the house that someone just was possessed by the devil at yeah then maybe the warns would be able to find something and they could say no no like this guy can plead insanity to murdering his family because we'll vouch for it we found shit there too so it's all alleged right alleged okay um but it the information exists out in the world that apparently this is one theory that happened okay um and so anyway so maybe the the warrens and the lutz the lutz family who did know each other by the way the warrens and the lutz family did know each other because the warrens did come to investigate

the house after everything was going on with the l's so um because they knew of each other there's some rumors that they work together also this same story has been spun into a separate theory when people don't believe the let's family that the house was haunted and they say well you brought in the warren so that way they could confirm it was haunted and you could make a bunch of money the amityville horror story actually um there's a lot of its own individual scandal because i if i ever do the amityville horror again i'm definitely going to cover the the potential grifting part of that because the entire family uh i think went into hiding at one point because like they just got completely reamed by yeah the public of like you did all of this for money you ended up on talk shows you had the

warrants come so i'm sure this story of the defao lawyer working with the lutzes and warrants could also be spun into this is how the lutzes got popular right anyway it's a whole thing that they maybe all were working together to help ronald de feo seem like he didn't kill his family um meanwhile another way that uh the warren's credibility has been judged is that the annabelle doll if we remember the Annabelle doll, if we remember the Annabelle doll, that was episode 10 of In That's What We Drink, which, again, I say all these as if, I mean, they're all very old episodes, so I would like to revise each of them. But for now, we've got episode 10 of Annabelle. And apparently, so for those of you who don't know,

the Annabelle doll actually lives inside ed and lorraine's um occult museum right so after everything happened their house right it's like it's attached to their house yeah okay so um and they would pay people to if they wanted to come to the museum and see everything again they would charge people they would charge people oh yes sorry not pay people um they would charge people which is another thing of like oh you're charging admission for like the world's scariest items that could hurt people why are you letting people go into the house you know like why are you i don't suckers for that too so i know i i don't really blame them for that i think it's a genius move zach bagans copied them you know i mean yeah um and so uh they have the annabelle doll behind glass with

like a giant sign on her that says like don't touch or don't let out of like don't let out of her cage oh my god if you if you get her out of the cage she'll like kill people again i'm not totally sure oh my god but um apparently ed used to tell people who came to visit annabelle that the last person to make fun of the annabelle doll tragically died but there's no proof of that never gave any names never gave any evidence so a lot of people say okay you're just making this even scarier than it needs to be plus apparently the show the twilight zone in 1963 they have an episode about an evil doll and one of the main characters in that episode was named Annabelle.

So a lot of people think like maybe he took inspiration from that episode and just hope no one would put it together. And this is just like he just made this doll evil. I don't know. It's a weird coincidence, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So people like to use that against them. Plus the fact that Annabelle now sits behind glass um at their museum and again people pay to see her if some people are upset that it feels exploitative sure um and then there's the case that i covered a while ago i think it was

episode 2 13 oh i was like two no no i think it was episode 213 i forgot to write it down but the uh arnie cheyenne johnson case of the devil made me do it yep yep yep so which by the way was inspiration for the conjuring three um so in 2007 the boy who was possessed that the Warrens did an exorcism on, his older brother claims that there was never any hauntings, and the Warrens made up this entire story just for, I don't know, I guess money. That's not a good look. So there was an author who I'm going to, you're going to learn his name a lot by the end of this. His name is Gerald Brittle.

Okay. And Gerald Brittle, in this case, at least with Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, he wrote this book called The Devil in Connecticut about about the case. But apparently Lorraine also co-wrote it. So they think like, oh, well, Lorraine could have had some artistic license and you know written in scarier parts that right than what really existed um the older brother to the kid who was possessed who says that there were no hauntings in fact he uh tried to sue for unspecified damages and exploitation oh boy he has a quote saying lorraine warren is nothing but a fraud she says she has documentation but she has nothing um and he basically says that the entire case just destroyed

their family and that's not good meanwhile bad look and uh in a more relevant uh twist of events zach bagans has bought the chair that the little boy was exercised in fun the chair and people who sit in it at the haunted museum apparently like ends up having to go get like corrective back surgery because like that seems really don't let people sit in that so if you'd like to be more attached to this case you can go watch conjuring three and then go sit in a chair don't sit in that chair man i'm telling you apparently when he brought that chair in like within like three hours of them opening the exhibit they had to cancel it they had to like they had to take it down and like shut it down and so they revised the exhibit because people like were leaving ill and passing out and shit so god anyway uh another one is the snedeker case which oh yeah i think i i'm pretty

sure i covered them yeah you did um and lorraine warren uh so the snedeker case was also the inspiration for the movie a haunting in connecticut okay yep um and lorraine warren actually says that she was embarrassed by the inaccuracies in this movie. Fun fact. Lorraine says that. Lorraine says it. She saw the movie and she went, none of that was fucking true. Oh, wow.

Okay. And she says, this is a quote from her. Do you know the amount of time and effort we put into that case? Do you know how many meetings with the clergy we had to finally bring closure to that family? And apparently the book, the movie does not show that so um interesting though that the person being accused of for like being fake is the one saying like none of that movie was accurate but do you think it's because she was like oh they didn't show all the work i put into it it sounded like she was like do you know how much

i don't i haven't seen the movie in so long i wouldn't know what she means by that okay but i i to be fair i think in a haunting in connecticut i don't know if the i don't think that the warrens were actually in that movie so well that's what i'm wondering like is she like oh they didn't even show all the work i did on that case do you know what i'm saying i see like it was inaccurate because it didn't portray her and all her work interesting i don't know she said oh all the um me do you know how many meetings i had to have with the clergy to close right right i feel like i don't know that's a good it's a good point self-focused anyway so there's uh there's the movie haunting connecticut where you can learn about

the snedeker case um and that one didn't actually have people portraying the warrens and then the conjuring universe it does have the warrens and she's like that one's accurate and she's like actually she did say the conjuring was the most accurate well there you go that okay that's not a good book i don't know so uh the there's a book about the Snedeker case, just like how there was a book about the Arnie Shannon Johnson case. There was a book called In a Dark Place, the Story of a True Haunting. And I'm sure that also, I'm sure between the Snedeker case and real life and this book, that was the inspiration for Haunting in Connecticut.

Right. book that was the inspiration for a haunting in connecticut right um but so this book was written by the warrens as well as a few other people one of them being one of the snedekers and one of them being ray garton and ray garton is actually a horror author and so people are like why did you need a horror author to write a case that should have already been scary on its own you know what i mean yep i do if it's already a scary story that that's like good enough for a book it just requires documentation not like fictional although some people who are pro-worn will say well they just wanted someone who knew how to write scary to like really like make sure that the message got across and you know they

wanted like someone who was better at writing and giving you the creeps to like go in with our actual real information and just like make it deliver it a certain way yeah i mean that makes sense too i totally get that but there is also the argument of like okay but like why was why was someone else needed to tell your story blah blahah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So one thing that is odd, though, is that Ray Garten, to help with his piece, he wanted to get interviews of everybody in the family about their experience during this haunting. OK. I guess he just wanted to get quotes from them. So while he was helping them zhuzh the story up, he would have real quotes.

Sure. But when he was interviewing the family for the book, he saw that there was a lot of inconsistencies and the storylines didn't line up. Uh oh. And he went to Ed saying, like, what do I do about this? Like, it doesn't sound like any of this is making sense. It's not the same story every time. And Ed apparently said, quote quote don't worry they're

crazy you've got some of the story just use what works and make the rest up just make it up and make it scary that's not good not a good look not a good look why would you even say that what are you thinking i don't know i don't know oh so um they're crazy that's really nice well so apparently they're this snedeker family also was a family that was dealing with some substance abuse and so now there's the idea that maybe there never was any hauntings and people were just having you know they were delusional or i don't know if that's even the right word to say but they were seeing things and nothing was actually hallucinations or something yeah so there's we don't know we don't know then it's extra bad to call them quote-unquote crazy crazy yep um there's another case which i've never heard of and now plan to cover called bill ramsey the wolf man and uh apparently the warns took on this case of a guy that literally was maybe a werewolf

and so um lorraine claims that she actually has a video of ramsey transforming into a wolf okay but then it's never been seen yeah i was gonna say well where is it um plus uh in the book they wrote about that case there is allegedly no actual evidence of him being a wolf man it was just a book about the case but no like hard-hitting facts that would have really freaked you out okay um in 1990 uh ed claimed that he got footage of the white lady of union cemetery apparently this is like a big connecticut case um yeah or a big a famous ghost in connecticut um the white lady of union cemetery and he claims he got footage but no footage has ever really been seen and also one person has come forward who has said that the footage does exist but it is

literally of them under a bed sheet oh come on and maybe even he's like i got footage and then he like looked at it again and was like oh this actually isn't very good yeah he was probably like it's not actually we should just not even show anyone it's too late we already told everyone we have it oops so there's that um then the enfield poltergeist which i have covered i remember that too um the enfield poltergeist was the inspiration for the conjuring 2 so just just let me run a list down because i feel like i might be confusing people so in the conjuring universe if you're trying to watch a movie and you want to see your favorite case represented in in these movies a haunting in connecticut was the snedeker case conjuring one was about the perrin family and

they're haunting conjuring two was uh the enfield poltergeist and the conjuring three which only came out like last year or earlier this year is uh arnie cheyenne johnson the devil made me do it okay and then there's also a whole trilogy about annabelle okay okay as well those are all in the same bubble those are all in the same bubble those are all filmed by i didn't realize the same production company um there's also la llorona and the nun but i don't think either of those have anything to do with the universe itself. So. Well, are they like somehow.

They're still still connected and like directed by the same people. Oh, got it. Same team. It's the same like production company, I think, that makes all these movies and the same director. But if you're looking for one specifically portraying the Warrens, that's the Conjuring series. So one, two, three. Okay. It's a little bit of a mess. Sorry, no it's good to know i didn't realize all that so because

i keep saying like oh this one inspired this one so just wanted to give everyone i didn't realize how broad this whole fucking series is i know it's pretty great i mean it's also pretty genius like hey with all like here's n lorraine warren they've done 10 000 cases let's make a whole universe of movies i mean seriously and they're all gonna have some connection and we can keep building on it yes genius um so the enfield poltergeist which was the conjuring 2 apparently a lot of activity happened away from investigators but it was implied that the investigators were like it's implied that not only ed and lorraine but all investigators were present for a lot of the creepy stuff but

realistically it was a lot of after a lot of hearsay afterwards from the kids so the enfield poltergeist was there was four siblings and one of them was slowly becoming possessed by a poltergeist in the house and it was just like a really gnarly haunting but so it was like two two of the daughters were sleeping in the same room and so it was a lot of times it was like two of the kids pretending to make sounds or pretending to do something and then they even admitted later like they made some of the stuff up because they were trying to freak out the investigators um so even though the conjuring 2 makes it look like the warrens were majorly involved in this investigation

apparently they only showed up for one day at the enfield house uninvited and then kind of got asked to leave oh which is interesting and not for anything not for like any like wrong reasoning not like they like did something bad and had to leave the house but like they like they just weren't even invited to be there and they showed up oh so i'm wondering if out of their 10 000 cases i'm wondering if like how many of them were they asked to go to and how many of them were like where the warrens and we'll just show up and they'll be grateful we're there there inserted themselves or how many of those were like if you listen to the first episode of this little two-parter um they used to like approach people's houses and like make art of the house and say like we want to give this to you

in exchange for like ghost stories like how many times were they just kind of inserting themselves into a narrative and calling it a case you know right no completely because i mean 10 000 is bananas and like from the 50s to the how do you even i don't know i don't know how you track that yeah and also like i don't know like maybe they i don't i don't know the reasoning i don't want to it doesn't sound like they were necessarily doing anything wrong i feel like if i were known as a massive paranormal investigator and there was a huge poltergeist crisis, I would maybe want to check it out. Like, I'm not saying they did anything, like, super duper wrong, but also, like, no one asked them to be there. Like, they didn't have to be there. That's bullshit.

Em would be hiding under a blanket and be like, don't get me near that poltergeist. I also would have pulled a Warrens and left after one day. Yeah, you would have been like,'m uninviting myself from this yeah it's like i was not invited and now i am really not even i want to be invited here so um so anyway it was interesting when you watch the conjuring 2 it seems like it was one of the warrens biggest cases but there were like other people involved in the enfield poltergeist actually the spr the society of psychical research they were the ones leading an investigation and like they already had to deal with harry houdini showing up every now and then now they're like these fucking guys

so um it's it's interesting the spr there's actually a one member from the spr who was one of the head investigators of the enfield poltergeist, who ended up saying a lot about the Warrens and when he saw them there. So his name was Guy Playfair. Wow, what a name. I know. And he said that he remembers bumping into them at the Enfield Poltergeist house, and he was not impressed. Uh-oh.

This is a quote from him let me um lubricate i could feel i was getting a little parched there guy said quote they did turn up once i think at enfields and all i can remember is ed warren telling me that he could make a lot of money for me out of it so i thought well that's all i need to know from you and i got myself out of his way as soon as i could they just wanted to make money out of it ed like cool it your your quotes are being re-quoted and like it and it's like if he if his argument is like wow this is gonna make us a lot of money because we're gonna be put on the spotlight and we will be exposing people to the devil like like

he's not framing it like if this guy is right i'm i'm assuming that his opinion is is solid and true here i i would if i were ed i would have not said like wow we're gonna make a lot of money i would have been like wow a lot of people are gonna learn about the devil and a lot of people are gonna find jesus you know like it would expose a lot of people are about to be saved you know like something something like that we're helping the world we're doing a service service yeah um but no it's according to this guy ed just was in it for the money um well and to tell the other guy i mean i do get why if if especially a guy he didn't know you just met him that day yeah but like I get why if you were really in it for the money you'd probably be like well I'm sure other people are too right I feel like if if that is your headspace like oh

I'm doing this for for monetary gain you look at another guy there and you're like hey like let me in on this right and help us get a shit ton of money right wrong guy you're talking about meanwhile though in other quotes like the documentary i watched about this every single one of their quotes is like really wholesome and pure and genuine of like we just want to help people like we've always been careful with these quotes it seems wishy-washy it seems like we're it seems like maybe he had a lot of opinions and every person is cherry picking the personality trait of his that they want. Like, it seems like he,

I mean, I don't, I mean, maybe I'm, I'm not trying to sound like I'm defending them. I'm just trying. This is one of the first times where I'm not one of the first times, but this is one of the few times where I have to do your job where like,

there are people still alive that could be like upset by what I'm saying. And I don't allegedly, I yeah i just i don't want to offend anybody because i don't know what's true and what's not so i just feel like i'm have to keep playing the balance game no that's an important caveat like we're just playing around theories it's it's i don't i don't know all i know is they were going into a lot of haunted houses and out of 10 000 maybe some of them really were fucking haunted and maybe some of them weren't and they were like you know what at least i'll make money off of this you know like you could say i'm gonna make money off this and have it still be haunted like it doesn't necessarily mean you're making it all up i mean i would love to go

capitalize on it even if it's real that's what i was gonna say like look at zach bagans like he genuinely wants to go into haunted houses but he also genuinely wants to make some fucking money like we're doing that right like we're telling i'm telling ghost stories and i'm making money and like that it's great to have both wait you're making money from this i a little bit a little bit i am but you know what i'm i'll give you one penny um okay but no like it's like i don't think there's anything wrong with having an interest and you in a job that you love doing and jobs come with getting paid there's like a fine line there because it's sort of like people in the creative field for example like some people get

shit for yeah charging for their creative services like but you're they're doing work there so i get the line there yeah i get it but i do think it's interesting that he a person he had never met who was like the head investigator and now he's saying wow we're gonna make a lot of money that's bad of all the people like you're gonna go up to the head person and say we're gonna make a lot of money you're like at least go to like the like the poor guy who's just carrying batteries around or something you know like get like the one guy who doesn't care about the ghost and is here for the money right he's here for a job no that's a really good point yeah like don't go to the one person who is arguably the most passionate in the room and anyway it was a bad look so um

apparently with the parent family haunting which was uh it inspired conjuring one it's one of the i will say uh it was one of the most backed up cases in the Warren's case log, where even the parents of this, the Perron's family does say to this day, it was an extreme haunting. One of the, I think, I don't know how many of them are still alive, but at least the oldest sister of the Perron family has said a lot about it, and she said that things were haunted. said a lot about it and she said that things were haunted um so uh the parent family their current owner though did sue or no not uh sorry not the parent family themselves they they moved out of the house that right was haunted and the current owner has sued warner brothers though because fans were trespassing so often to get pictures of the house that's not good um apparently it was really bad

like people were publishing info about the family oh my god some people like in the comments like jokingly were like haha it'd be fun to break in there what is what is wrong with people i know so this is my psa if you are someone who thinks it's funny to say it'd be fun to break into a house and like someone lives there like don't do it don't do my half of the show and then realize how unfunny that is this this this is my psa do not break into this person's house and leave them alone you have your airpods in we're talking to you right now and you're halfway up a fence turn around yep yep yep you get it you get it go to waffle house even if you could even if it's in your eyeline you can see it you're so close just don't just get off the fence don't it's not too late it's not too late so um the owner did say that uh so the original parents who lived there the older sister i think her name was andrea

she was saying like oh yeah like this place was haunted there was definitely some creepy stuff going on not all of the movie itself was totally true but i also would say like most movies aren't 100 accurate on a inspired story especially if they're not documentaries right right um and but the current owner wanted to make it very clear that like some of the more intense parts of the movie are not true so that uh in this movie there's a witch i think her name was not bethesda that's maryland bethesda no this one's bathsheba bathsheba yeah that's is that a name that's the name okay i it's like a name you've heard it's from the bible i think wow here i am good name you've heard of. It's from the Bible, I think. Wow.

Here I am with my Bible and full of my brain full of knowledge about the Bible. I've never heard of that name. Em literally has a Bible underneath their microphone right now. Fun fact. My mom married a Catholic man. So we do have Bibles in this house now. Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah. Uriah? Yep. I am learning a lot of names today. Okay. Bathsheba was the wife of uriah uh uriah yep i am learning a lot of names today okay so uh the current owner solomon okay sorry i do know solomon that's a fun one okay you do know

solomon good so uh the the the current owner said that some of the information in the movie is not true one of it being that there was a witch named beth sheba sherman um but in real life that person did exist at the house but she was not a witch and she did not die the same way and which was much more tragic in the movie um they also said that there was never any satanic worship or on the property there's never been any deaths on the property um so i get why you would want to clarify that if you lived there and you were like especially when people are like let's break in because it's a haunted house and don't come into my basement there's no satanic shit going on here yeah she wants to like lay down the law of like my house is just a house with a family

and it leave us the fuck alone i get that um if you do want more information, like more info on like the true debunked story of Bathsheba Sherman, there is a Blogspot page that has all like so much information. Someone like really researched Bathsheba. It is dreamingcasuallypoetry.blogspot.com. Also, I love that. I'm like Bathsheba is from the bible and it's like bathsheba sherman the least biblical last name is that jesus's last name wait a minute it might be king solomon sherman i didn't know that anyway anyway so they uh if you want to learn more about the true story or like how the the movie version versus the real version you can go there there's

a lot of information so um that being said in terms of the nuts and bolts of it lorraine says that the conjuring one was actually an excellent interpretation of the investigative part of the story okay and then the older sister uh what's interesting is that so i've been saying this whole time that she also agreed that the place was extremely haunted um like stuff was definitely going on there. But in terms of the movie, she disagrees with Lorraine and that it was an accurate interpretation. She actually says, quote, it was so distant that it might as well be two stories with the characters just sharing the same names. Wow. So this is the sister.

Yeah. wow so this is the sister yeah so um in the parent family they all include in the in the warrens they all agree that something really fucking spooky was going on there but in terms of the movie lorraine says it was accurate and the parents say it wasn't i'm not gonna lie i kind of am inclined to believe the family that lived it but i yep i you know especially if they're saying it was haunted it just wasn't like like that. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But I think, and maybe they, because she was a kid at the time. And so maybe she just didn't see, I think in the movie or maybe in real life. I have not researched the story in a long time, but I would imagine if children were involved,

the Warrens had them like leave and go to grandma's for a while when they were doing like real intense investigations. So maybe Lorraine is saying like, in terms of the investigation that's true movie was super accurate and the kid who wasn't there because she was taken out of the situation she was at grandma's pool yeah who knows or maybe like we should believe the family or maybe we should believe the warrens i don't know but just giving you every potential interesting um fun fact though about the conjuring movie about the parents story that movie which none of the movies portraying the warrens ed warren ever saw he passed away before the movies were made but but the film that he always said would make a great movie was what became the conjuring uh well he called it and so even before the movie

existed for him to give an opinion on it he always did say that the parent family haunting would be of all their cases the one that should be a movie so it must have been really freaky in real life for him in some way to think like that's the one um so fun fact he kind of just like manifested that one day it'd be a movie and it was the first conjuring movie and it's been a big hit huh like didn't you say the series is almost as big as king kong or something it's the it's the second largest horror franchise other than godzilla godzilla okay close which has been around longer so i'm just going to give them like seniority years or something so uh just like how they run the new england society of psychical research there is a new england skeptical society there oh that's fun

they're arch rivals which by the way sounds it's like spelled out like nessie almost oh that's fun little twist i love that well ness but close enough a little ness and so uh the president of the new england skeptical society named stephen novella says that the warrens never seemed to ever have any evidence that would stand up to rigorous scientific testing and most of it not even to cursory testing oh that's not so stephen is their nightmare i think um he's a hater they think steven is like such a hater um and he also says quote despite ed's insistence that he's engaged in scientific research he continues to jealously hoard his alleged evidence rather than allow it to be critically analyzed and it is necessary in genuine scientific endeavors as it is necessary and genuine scientific endeavors yeah

i mean if he's saying i have evidence of this ghost and then they're like okay let's see it and he's like no thanks yeah or like even and i do think that's fishy but i also think like maybe he got again i'm just trying to do the balance act here folks yeah yeah yeah but uh you know maybe after he showed like the amityville picture which should have been like in his mind like hard-hitting evidence and everyone just shat all over it like which like people had the right to shit all over it like it looks like they literally just had a little boy in the house um but maybe he was like now i'm protective of my footage i don't want people just trashing my hard work you know totally get that too of like i guess then i i would be like don't announce that you have all this great yeah in that case like just say you don't want people just trashing my hard work, you know? I mean, I totally get that too. I guess then I would be like, don't announce that you have all this great evidence. Yeah, in that case, just say you don't have evidence, I guess.

Or just keep it on the DL because I feel like it's kind of a weird look to say, oh, look, I have all this evidence, but you can't see it. Just trust me. Exactly. So one of the reasons I'm being so careful with the balancing act is because the Warren's only daughter, Judy, is still alive with us. And she seems like such a peach. And I don't want to, you know, say.

No, no. I don't want to poo poo on her parents who aren't even alive to defend themselves. No, no. And so Judy actually did a an interview with Den of Geek about her parents. And which is it's a great interview. I'm not going to read everything. But there was one question that I wanted to read her quote from cool and she was asked what would you like to dispel about your parents what's something that people always get wrong about them

and she does she is completely obviously i know people can say bias but she is on the side of her parents not being grifters not being shady sure she says quote that they were in it for the fame or money or anything like that i think that was one thing that came up probably a lot and i had i had a hard time with that criticism they were really really trying and they always tried after my dad collapsed and he was a full patient He was a full care patient for five years. He wasn't even really there. He was in the house, but you know, he wasn't there. My mom, she would take these calls in the middle of the night anyway, and sit and talk to people. We wanted to change the house number so many times, but she wouldn't let us just so people could reach us. She'd sit and talk to you until the morning. Uh, she would sit and talk to people

until they were comfortable enough to get back to sleep or uh if they felt or if they felt okay this will work or we'll talk to you in the morning she would get back to them the next day so like a hotline yeah so like if people were like scared and didn't know what to do about like a haunting in their house like lorraine would just sit up and talk to people because they genuinely wanted to help people so haunted hotline that's very cute haunted hotline I like that a lot so so anyway they I mean she you know I imagine she would know her parents better than anybody and I'm sure she also feels the need to defend them I think it's a good angle to see yeah and I again I don't think Judy is wrong. I have 100% faith that Lorraine really did do that stuff. And I do also believe the Warrens when they say, like, we just wanted to help people. And if you just want to help people, but you also make money from it, I think that's fine.

Like, I just, I don't know how, I don't know where the trickery comes in, you know? Yeah, it's hard to say where that line showed up. True. So,y i these are just three other quotes from the interview that have really nothing to do with anything but i thought they were really precious um or not precious one of them was precious but the three of them were all like worth noting and one of them I thought was precious where she was talking about her dad. And she said, my father always talked about ghost stories in my family. So we had fantastic Halloween parties and we spent a lot of time walking around in cemeteries.

And I was like, wow, you really had the life I wish I led. I was going to say, damn it, I'm jealous. Damn it, I'm jealous. And so another quote, completely separate, is she, they asked if she was ever a skeptic to what her parents did. And she said she saw enough proof being around her parents that she couldn't have been a skeptic about what they did. That she just saw her own shit too many times after being around them. And then they asked if she inherited any of her mom's gifts. after being around them and then they asked if she inherited any of her mom's gifts and um she said she might have inherited some of her mother's gifts but every time she has noticed something

weird happening around her she backs away from letting herself be open to it but there have been times where she was able to like predict a death or things like that and she's been like i don't i don't need that she's like i'm interesting i've seen what it can do at least you know it's an interesting angle to have the child of the parent of the words but also to know that judy's not like following in the family footsteps but it's still really like no i believe like it's not like judy's like now sign up for my ghostbusting course, you know. Well, they asked, the interviewer asked, would there ever be like a legacy, like someone in the family? And she did say like, oh, I think my grandson might be interested in it, but I'm not sure yet. Interesting.

Yeah. I wonder if it's going to pass through. I don't know. Interesting. So the next thing are the two lawsuits. In 2013, after the first Conj conjuring movie came out there was a huge lawsuit with uh warner brothers that is it's not actually about the warrens it's just a conjuring lawsuit scandal which i'll talk about but it leads in it comes back to the warrens later

okay so the conjuring one which was about the parent family haunting soon after the movie premiered one of the producers named tony derosa grund tried suing warner brothers slash new line because new line was the the division of warner brothers that filmed this so tony apparently owned the rights to like 8 000 case files of the warrens um and he was so the people would be like why does the producer happen to also conveniently have 8 000 case files of the warrens yeah so this guy on his own just happened to have 8 000 case files of the warrens that he owned the rights to and he agreed that out of those 8 000 he was going to license out 25 of them 25 of the case files to

warner brothers um which by the way is like less than one percent but he was like here are 25 case files i think you could make a movie out of you know pick and choose whichever ones you want but in return uh i want i want to be paid a fee up like a percentage of the movie and i want producer credits which makes sense that happens a lot in the movie world like if you own the rights to something in a movie wants to make a film about it if you give them if you option out your rights usually they will give you a producer credit because you were involved in the production of the movie and you can often like have a say and yeah how exactly where he goes yeah so he he gave them 25 case files to work with to make movies out of okay um and tony claims that in order to get around this agreement though like warner brothers

didn't want him to. This is all alleged. And this is what Tony is claiming. OK. This lawsuit is that the Warner Brothers New Line division didn't want to give him producer credit, didn't want to have to pay him a percentage of the movie. And so to get around having to use any of his 25 cases while still writing about these movies without. Oh, yeah. while still writing about these movies without oh yeah they ended up using books that were written about the case instead oh that's not fair so they instead of using like his official documentation they were using books that authors wrote in as inspiration so the story

itself wasn't even factual but if they were using that instead of his case files they were technically making a movie about the book and not his official paperwork which is really shady and like not legal i don't think because that's why so many production companies don't accept like blind script submissions because they throw them away right away because if they open it and then they happen to make a movie with the same yeah plot then you have a right to say you have my you have your hands on my script you're stealing it right which is why they like don't accept them so like if they're like oh we already have these but we're gonna go take the story from somewhere else like exactly i don't know i think he has a case on his hands that's what i'm saying if that's true if that's

so the book that they used instead was the demonologist by Gerald so I it's weird because I mentioned Gerald Brittle separately earlier and I was waiting for him to come back he told me I'd know him by the end so Gerald Brittle I used I talked about him earlier because he wrote a book about the Arnie Cheyenne Johnson case oh okay but he also wrote the book that I mentioned earlier the demonologist that talks about how catholic that talks about how Catholic the Warrens were. Right. So he happened to write two books that I'm mentioning in these notes. But so he wrote the Arne Cheyenne Johnson one.

We'll deal with that later. But he wrote the 1980 book, The Demonologist. And that is where Warner Brothers New Line was getting their information from instead of tony's official documents so from the get-go if they're going to make a movie based off of an inspir an inspired book and not the official paperwork the movie's already not going to be super accurate or that could be the fear um and this book hinted that uh oh also gerald brittle had written before that like this book hinted at the enfield of them being involved in the enfield investigation even though that was barely true um this book was used for a few of the movies because they talked about the conjuring they talked about um or they talked about the parent family haunting in it they talked about the enfield poltergeist but all of this book kind of implies like like some of the grifty things of

like oh the it implied that they were at the enfield polter it never said that they were grifters or anything like that but people will use information from this book as reasons that they think the warrens were phonies so um for example in the book it said like oh yeah the warrens were involved in the enfield poltergeist case but really they were only there for a day and so this book itself just to give you an idea of how it's not 100 factual right and that's what warner brother was working off of so tony was pissed that he was like i literally gave you the rights to these case files and you're not using them yeah that's shitty if that's true shitty so basically um warner brothers chose not to use his totally accurate it chose to use this not totally accurate book as inspiration for a

movie instead of using the actual files in the case so that they could get around paying tony for the rights that's that's pretty shitty allegedly it's true um also this makes their based on a true story disclaimer even more false because the movie was based instead more on a loose interpretation of a true story yeah i remember we learned that in grad school that like based on a true story doesn't story based on a true story they're all like varying degrees but they like don't really mean they're they don't mean anything no they don't mean anything there's no like like based on true story like here's a story one time i ate a chipotle burrito and then my face exploded that's that's that's a story i told and now you can write a movie based on a story you know like it's like it it's it could be it's a true story m come on bring it back down

to earth you don't know you ate what my life looks like there was a cockroach so i'm gonna tell a story about how there's a burrito that you ate and there's a cockroach and then your face exploded but it's based on a true story of you fighting you know what i mean i feel like you can like spin a base you can take you can take one true fact and then completely unravel it into a completely different story and yeah and then you could say based on a true story well and then when it says inspired by a true story that's them saying like we weren't even allowed to say based on a true story yeah so we had to take a step back and say inspired by a true story so even less accurate so anyway the based on a true story thing was like even more false than before yeah

that's kind of icky so the official lawsuit that tony brought to warner brothers is because since since they avoided using his official documents but made a movie about the information anyway he thought that he should be paid because they were still using information that like they really shouldn't allegedly they shouldn't have used if without using his rights or without paying for it to them um and so uh on top of that they were still making or they had plans to like make sequels too like not doing the same thing and he was like i want to be paid my fair share in profits for the sequels as well. So at the same time that that's happening, Gerald Brittle, who wrote The Demonologist,

and they used that book instead, he is now suing Warner Brothers and New Line for $900 million for ripping off his book. Because I't know if i didn't get the rights to that either i don't know i don't on earth it doesn't sound like it what are they doing so and also to just to remind you like whether they were using tony's uh 25 case files that he was leasing out to them or if they use gerald brittle's the demonologist either way they were now making a movie franchise or starting up a movie franchise that would one day cost or uh make over a billion dollars so like holy mother of god so uh warner brother slash new line they were fighting gerald brittle like, yeah, we used your book as this movie concept.

But even though you say we were ripping off your story, Warner Brothers says, quote, no one has a monopoly on telling stories about true life figures and events. So not even true, though. Like if he wrote the book and they're using the that's not even true. Warner Brothers, you know that. Like, if he wrote the book and they're using the book, that's not even true, Warner Brothers. You know that. So they apparently, they're saying, like, you can tell a story about the Warrens and we can tell a story about the Warrens. And we, you know.

But we're telling the story that you told first? Like, no. Yeah, I don't totally understand. If this is true, again, allegedly, that really irks me. It blows. really irks me blows so uh gerald brittle who the writer of the demonologist he then says the story wasn't even accurate because the warrens told or this is um just like more awkward proof by the way going back to the potential grifting or the potential like faking everyone out because gerald brittle it came out in the lawsuit where he was like, yeah, you used my book. But guess what?

My book wasn't even accurate because apparently when he wrote the story about the Warrens and the demonologist, he thought that his information was right. But the Warrens later told him that the information wasn't true. So, right. So that's exactly the point. It's like they're telling his story because his story was already a spin from what actually happened so yeah yeah that makes total sense whatever so i don't and to be fair with he i don't know if the warrens told him that everything wasn't true but he ended up finding out later with different evidence that the book he wrote ended up not being accurate so he he thought

he was writing like a true a more true version of the warrens and then later found out it wasn't true and then warner brothers used that book anyway so it was so they were originally given 25 allegedly they were given 25 case files to pick from with all the accurate information of what those investigations looked like instead they picked a loosely inspired book which claims to be true and then after everything found out that it was even less true so right anyway and they can't say oh we didn't use the books it's like well then why do you have all these random facts that are only in the book that aren't even based on reality yeah that's so he ends up claiming uh

the gerald brittle he claims that warner brother used the book's false narrative for the inspiration uh it all goes along with like tony's claims of like yeah i mean we get it we get anyway i get it i get it experts say that warner brothers was within their rights because they used the disclaimer at the end not that it was based on true story but they used another disclaimer at the end of the movie to say that the story was dramatized um come on so it kind of excused them of like none of this was accurate like so many loopholes man so this is where it gets really not cute for the warrens okay so in the middle of this lawsuit i don't totally understand how this happened i don't understand what what steps happened for this to come out as information but during this

legal battle further information surfaced in 2014 so a year after this lawsuit started, more info is coming out. And somehow it surfaces that there is this woman named Judith Penny. Okay. Okay. And Judith Penny, in a sworn declaration, a year after this lawsuit comes out, information that she says in this sworn declaration says that in 1963, when Ed was in his mid 30s, he began a relationship with her and she was 15. With the consent and full knowledge of his wife, Lorraine. What? Again, I don't know if this is true. I am just stating what happened or what I know.

I had no idea about this me either so now i'm this part alone i'm like is this what people wanted me to cover like i'm in which case like wouldn't it have gone to you because it's more true crimey no i assume people just want you to cut because they're such famous like paranormal figures i assume people just wanted to hear the they probably don't even i mean not everybody probably even knows so like right that's why they want you to cover it so anyway if people were wondering how the warns might be controversial well i get it now this is the closest thing i could find to it so judith penny uh says that when ed was in his 30s in 1963 he began a relationship with her when she was 15 with

the full knowledge and consent of his wife and his daughter's name is judy right like that's kind of that is something i was going to mention later his daughter is also named judy yes yeah it's like that's a little odd but okay and she was to be fair i was like oh my god was the baby born after this and the baby was named judy and like because of her that's what i was the baby judy already was born so it's just a coincidence that he ended up already born okay got you got you it's just coincidental that this person's name is also judith okay um she met him when he was a city bus driver because at that time they were getting into the ghost paranormal world but they weren't able to survive off that so he was doing another odd job so he was a bus driver and i think he was

picking her up from high school homie like they tell me it was a school oh my god oh my god oh my god um and their relationship according to her which i guess thank god she says the relationship was amorous and she wanted this relationship i know she was 15 it was a sexual relationship which means it was rape um but at the very least i rest easier knowing that she was not according to her force into this you know what i mean it was like it's still not good it's still not okay it's still not okay but at the very least like she wasn't like this wasn't it wasn't a violent forced situation thing right i got you it's not good this is not good if this is true this is not good if it's not true it's still not good that this is this

information is floating around um uh also side note i wanted to take a moment and educate the two of us i feel like we have been interchanging, and sorry, these are trigger warning words, SA and the R word. But I think a lot of times I have felt uncomfortable saying the R word, rape, because I didn't want to trigger anybody if that is something they've had to go through. But I have also seen floating around the internet that calling it sexual assault is downplaying it so um i am just i don't know what the right words to say are because i don't want to say something that is downplaying a situation but i also don't want to trigger anyone's trauma so but i have seen to be fair like my stories almost very often cover rape anyway and

okay so it's so i hope i'm not offending anyone by saying the word rape but i do want to make sure that it would be clear that a man who's 30 sleeping with a 15 year old is at the very least statutory rape right um allegedly so uh she does say that their relationship started when she was 15 it was quote amorous it was also sexual and many times he allegedly told her that she was the love of his life um judy judith judith also um this is where it gets kind of crazy that like you would think this is like a one and done situation Judith Judith literally moved into

their house. What? And stayed in a room across the hall from them and he would switch rooms every other night for which bed he was going to stay in. Sounds like some medieval shit So over the years she ended up moving out of the bedroom and into her own space that was built onto the house and she lived with them for 40 years sorry four zero

four zero years did we not like know this it's just like since judith was 55 which means eventually so no sorry until she was 55 oh and so from from 15 to 55 right till he died probably in his like 80s or 90s they broke up three years before he died shut up so for his whole not good i i don't i don't know where mean, it's not good that from 15 to 18, it certainly wasn't good. But I mean, if you're there in three or fifties, like, was it at that point a legitimate relationship or was she? I don't know, because I feel like if it starts off as like a manipulative. Yeah. Alert into this. Cause I also, and I, I don't think I, I'm trying. I'm in real time trying to figure out what words I want to use. But I do understand.

I'm not giving this any backup that it started in rape. Okay. Right. But I do want to say, like, I don't want the concept of us being grossed out that someone can happily have multiple partners. Like, if this was a thing where like they were polygamists polygamists or they were into polyamory sorry yeah uh if they were if they believed in multiple partners and were happy that way awesome but it is not good that this started with a 15 year old child no yeah so i don't think any anyone that uh you know chooses polyamory for themselves is you know gonna

be offended the same thing no yeah i don't think they claim that story but i also want to say like we're not grossed out at the concept that like he had two partners if no they were both adults and like cool with it i think it's awkward that he his daughter and his 15 year old partner had the same name but you know that's besides that's also odd and it's not a cute look that um she started she was that young it's not cool that lorraine was also cool with it yeah what on earth is that about yeah i don't like if you're gonna like have like a secondary partner then like go find someone who's not fucking 15 a child who rides your school bus what yeah right oh my god oh my

god oh my god did judy the daughter ever say anything about this we will get there oh god okay um if people ever asked who she was because she's literally lived in their house for four zero years um if she if they ever asked people would say she was a niece or a neighborhood girl that they took in, which makes it real shady. That's sketchy in and of itself. Like, they knew better. They knew better.

Allegedly. If this really happened, they knew better. Well, and I want to be clear here, too. This is not under Catholic rules, okay? So if he's claiming to be a devout Catholic, well, he's not doing a great job of it bingo bango christine um but yeah if you have to lie about who they are you know better right there's something shady oh yeah unless it's like you're protecting but this is not not in this

case no no so apparently in this sworn declaration if uh at some point someone noticed that she was really young and not their child and was living with them and called the police and the police tried to get her to formally admit it and when she wouldn't they sent her to a juvenile center for a month and then she had to do like meetings after that but like even ed drove her to the meetings like it, it was weird. It's weird. I don't like it. No. In 1978, when she is a whole ass woman, by the way, in her 30s, she got pregnant with him. And Lorraine apparently made her get an abortion because it would make the Warren name look

bad. Because in 1978, this was their prime peak fame. Oh, my God. This just gets worse and worse which by the way also not very catholic an abortion um actually the opposite like literal opposite of catholic but in 1978 they were like they could not have been more at the peak of their fame so this was going to be like a real crisis for pr allegedly this is all that happened just so you know um so judith this actually makes it even more sad is that judith there's a quote about this this moment in time

and judith said quote they wanted me to tell everyone that someone had come into my apartment and r-worded me and i wouldn't do that i was so scared i didn't know what to do but i had the abortion and that night they picked me up from the hospital after having it and they went out to a lecture and left me alone this is so fucked up oh my bad again allegedly but also wow so fucked up really bad really sad so fucked up. Now I'm understanding why people were like, hey, like, maybe cover the Warrens and learn something about the Warrens, like, just before you're always talking about them. So I had no clue either. I had no clue.

I've seen The Conjuring. I'm so like, oh, God, I went to the so bright eyed and bushy tailed. I know. Last week you sounded so happy. Well, this is what I do to you every week so I guess it's punishment I just strung it out for a week so um my thought this whole time was why first of all why did Lorraine allegedly agree to this when she was when there was a 15 year old that her husband wanted to sleep with like like, and then move in with. Sure.

I think, by the way, she moved in when she was 18, just to clarify. OK, well, that's good. I mean, good, not good, but it's like at least. I also wonder if Lorraine didn't totally know until she was 18. I don't know. I don't know because I don't want to. I don't know. I just I'm throwing that out there that she might have been fine with it because she didn't know how early it started um just putting that out there as a potential um but also here's another reason that lorraine might have been okay with it quote

okay with it is judith says that ed was abusive and uh would beat lorraine sometimes until she was unconscious fuck me are you serious right and said that they thought she thought they might kill each other so he's just a bad guy allegedly according to her angle allegedly a bad guy especially because and then like but then i'm so thrown because in like other documentaries and videos i saw they are not only painted as like some people who are so in love and like there's no way that that would be the behind the scenes storyline but even like well i guess if this is true and she was the victim she could just be saying things out of fear i mean but she it always seems like her and the kids and everyone were always like they were so in love like i want that relationship so who i don't know i don't know but it's it's

this is very this is only and i'm not trying to if this really did happen i feel so bad for this person however it is one person um who is saying i couldn't there was no other information alluding to abuse or anything like that that I saw except for this one. This is one angle. Declaration. This is one angle. Yes. And if this is what really happened to Judith, I totally ate my words and I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Yes. So anyway, all this information came out because of the conjuring lawsuit with Tony's producer rights. And Tony, what have you done? Tony's producer rights and Gerald Brittle with the demonologist suing them at, I think at the same time they were dealing with these two things. And my question is like, how the fuck did these two people get this information from Judith? Like, how did that happen like i don't know where it came from this information just kind of fell out at the same

time and i i think it was their way of saying like well did you know all of this stuff and how bad the warrens are why would you even want to write stories for these people or make movies about these people did lorraine die before judith came forward uh she was so she was in her 90s and had like really intense dementia i think maybe it was a scenario where like she finally felt comfortable to maybe and it was like in the news and maybe she just wanted to put her story out or who knows yeah so so um i'm gonna mention this a little bit later but she so lorraine was alive but i don't think she was capable of saying anything like i don't think so yeah i don't know maybe that's why judith wanted to like share her peace finally so according to tony uh the warren's daughter judy the. Yep. She apparently lived with her grandma while Judith lived at the house for 40 years.

Which, so, and Judith does say in her declaration, she says, I was the only girl who lived there. And this was confirmed by the daughter, too, in separate interviews where she said that she lived with her grandparents. Maybe it is convenient that her name was the same so they didn't maybe mix it up yikes well she apparently uh because her parents were always traveling for investigate investigations and the lecture circuit and all this it was she just lived with the grandparents and so she was never there and that so that does confirm the fact that judith was there by herself so do we have any proof that like they did have this judith person living with them like do we know that for sure just testimony okay just just hearsay there's no like census records from 19 oh i don't know actually i'm there maybe i should

have looked that up i don't know that's actually not that bad because i do have an ancestry account so yeah i'm gonna go newspapers.com i don't my brother does but i not that bad because I do have an ancestry account. So I'm going to go check. I have a newspapers.com. I don't. My brother does, but I use it. So we can, we'll go check for sure. But then also, you know what it would say? Judy Warren, if they were trying to, which was their daughter's name, it would say Judith Warren if they were trying to just excuse that she was a distant relative. Right. That's true. If they were lying. I mean, yeah, you're right.

They said that she said that they lied about it. Her identity. So yeah. And it would say literally the same name as the daughter. So it just said something. Judith. Judith Penny. Penny. Wow.

Well, now we're going to go get real investigative in a second. But I'm like itching to figure this mystery out. Conspiracy. Well, let me I'll finish. I'll finish with this part then and just say um judith judy warren the daughter states that judith actually oh i'm so sorry i i forgot there actually is a little bit of proof that she lived there so a little bit um judy warren does state that judith was taken in as a house sitter when they were not around so when they were traveling

she stayed there um just to take care of like picking up the phone and things like that the plans um they also say that judith um wouldn't have been uh this is judy warren saying like yeah she was a house sitter but she also wouldn't have been with ed because she had a boyfriend for years who she later married but then again like if ed was married and with somebody like she could be engaged with someone so whatever so judy's saying that's not true is what we're judy says it's not true she did live with them but it was she doesn't know of her and it was as a house sitter and that was it so at least it's not just a random person off the street trying to get in on the story like it's an actual yeah judith just says it was with the family judith just says it was much more i guess she's saying it was more sinister

that part about the abortion makes it sound like it was oh it sounds terrible yeah yeah um and so in after this all came out about like the Warren's character, Tony, who is fighting with them for the producer rights, he said, quote, Ed was a pedophile, a sexual predator and a physically abusive husband. Lorraine enabled Ed to do this. She knowingly allowed this illegal relationship to continue for 40 years and they lied to the public. Wow.

That's a bold, big, bold statement. And wow. 40 years and they lied to the public wow that's a bold big bold statement and wow tony tried to threaten and this by the way this email went to like warner brother top executives like the president of new line i think or something like it or something on that level like so people knew about this as the conjuring movies were coming out and this was they were in the middle of making the sequel like they and they ended up um apparently at one point tony even said like if you are going to make a sequel first of all i want my fucking money yeah and he also said um excuse me he also said that he had promised judith that he would come to the top execs and as his with his rights as a producer, which they were not giving him. He was like, first of all, I want to be made a producer. And then from there, I want to tell you that you need to rewrite the narrative of Ed and Lorraine's love story in the movies, because in the movies they are known as like very wonderfully in love and no abuse, no signs of abuse.

And so he was like, as a producer producer i would want you to be more accurate with their relationship um and he was writing this like top execs of like if you're going to keep doing this at least make it accurate blah blah blah um wow and tony tried to threaten the exact executives that he that he was suing that if he didn't do this if they didn't do this if they didn't change the story up or pay him his rights or you know handle gerald brittle or whatever it was then judith would come forward to the media about the story like if they didn't if they didn't settle judith was going to come out publicly about what the warrens were up to as you're in the middle of writing a sequel about the warrens and how in love they are yeah and the lawsuit said that the studio ignored the truth about

these people quote to protect its billion dollar franchise well sure it did of course it's so um warner brother slash new line their attorney says that tony was quote just pushing the story of the warrens personal lives as part of a vendetta to win his case. And Lorraine, this is kind of odd, and it's not a cute look, apparently, when we're all wondering, like, is this true, was this not true? Like, what version of the movie,

of the book, of Judith's story, what's going on? It is interesting to note that since Lorraine was still alive when The Conjuring came out and probably was put on as a producer or some sort of consultant or whatever it was, she had a contract with the films with a very weird and not common caveat. Like a stipulation or something?

A stipulation in her contract that the portrayal of the warrens would quote never be presented in a light where they were quote engaging in crimes including sex with minors child pornography prostitution or sexual assaults what and neither the husband nor wife would be depicted as participating in extramarital sexual relationships. That was in the fucking contract? That was in her contract, and there were talent agents who were like, that is not a common, that's not normal. Holy crap, that's shady.

Do we know that for sure? It's apparently in there, and it's very, I don't know. I'll say allegedly just to you know because i'm not i'm not sure i haven't looked at the contract but this is written up in the uh i think the hollywood reporter like oh well that's a fucking source wow i think it was a hollywood reporter there was this this was the whole expose i was talking about so wow talk about a fucking expose and so it's very specific language for a contract if there wasn't something they were trying to cover up and it's unclear if warner brother

like took them seriously or did took any action but they did make the couple in the sequel still look very much in love and they like completely ignored the request to change it up i mean i guess that would take away from the story anyway so i don't see why they didn't want to it's shitty i see as a director how you wouldn't even really want to focus on the relationship at all so it doesn't seem relevant i mean in the for a ghost story for yeah for a poltergeist story um so judith apparently again i don't know if this was some stockholm syndrome shit but um judith did actually stay friends with ed after they broke up in 2003 and then for those judith did judith stayed friends with him after they broke up 40 years later um and he died in 2006 she was never close with Lorraine, which does not shock me.

So that's it, basically. Let me. I had no idea. I also had no idea. And if this is what people were talking about, I get it. Like. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. So anyway. Good job not getting this out there. Yeah. If it's true, you know. Anyway, so there's that. And I don't know, you know, do what you want with it. Take that information. And I don't, again, all of this was alleged, although it was like a massive expose where all this information came out. And I don't know how much of it was just to make Warner Brothers try to redo their contracts or use producer rights and things just kind of surfaced i don't know what the deal is but that is apparently how like did any is it still in

progress or like i never found out how it ended up settling now do you know when that expose was written by 2017 okay i think it's still pretty recent yeah i don't know um it didn't as far as i saw in the article i didn't see like a this is what everyone settled on i i don't i i don't know i don't honestly don't even a fucking story i mean yeah december 13th 2017 is when that expose came out it's's if you're interested at Hollywood Reporter. I looked at, by the way, I looked at a bunch of other articles, too. But this was like absolutely the most meaty of information. Hollywood Reporter does some good stuff.

It's called War Over the Conjuring. The disturbing claims behind a billion dollar franchise. I had no clue. I mean, I don't know anything about horror movies or whatever, but wow. Yep. So there you thought there is that. If i do watch those movies i won't but if i do i'll have a different spin on these two lovey-dovey old people involved or i know yeah and it also again it was kind of that thing we always talk about with your stories of like was someone who was a victim of abuse like more in trouble for

enabling the abuser's behavior with someone else sure like but so for lorraine i don't know what her story is and she unfortunately was uh like they they had a lawyer a family lawyer who all said like this woman did house it for them actually the in the book the demonologist apparently she was even mentioned as like someone who, took a message on a phone call at one point. So there's, like, written proof that she lived there. But I don't know what Lorraine's story was. I don't know if she found out once the girl was 18. I don't know if she was getting abused and, like, didn't have a say.

I don't know if she was. Right, that changes the whole thing. I don't know if she was. For all we know, she was, like, super money money hungry and was like you can't ruin our family name but also it could have been like you can't ruin our family name because then ed's gonna be pissed at both of us or something like right if she was a victim of abuse also that changed the whole dynamic of like you can't blame yeah it's yeah oh my god what a fucking story and also like if you're with somebody for 40 years is that a

valid relationship if the first three were you being statutorily raped you know like i don't know i don't know where the i don't know i don't know it's a it's very tricky stuff so get an ethics course conversation yeah wow m you really you really got again let me put this all into the blanket of all of this is alleged because i don't know enough to make a firm stance yeah wow what a story though either way i mean just even the lawsuits alone i know i don't know how you do this every week christine talking about crime like that oh my god i have like i'm like i have a migraine all right amethy well i have part two as well for you this week do you remember our story foxy noxy foxy noxy oh my goodness and so wait a minute foxy noxy so last i oh i just remembered how mad i was it's really stressful

it's a stressful story all Alright, well, I went from like a 10 out of 10 to like a 30 out of 10 instantly. So, essentially the last thing that I talked about in last week's episode was this Giuliano, my arch nemesis,

Giuliano Menini's description where he says, oh, it must have been a halloween sex game of course fucking guy oh what's his last name minini it's m-i-g-n-i-n-i i'm gonna just call him the meanie the meanie yeah because i fucking hate him okay right yes okay so mr meanie had this whole notion and and there was like this taiwanese mock-up of like this 3d animated like where she walks in and she uh meredith's like oh my gosh you have two boys here how could you and amanda's like i'll show you for judging me and then stabs her in the throat and it's like

there's no evidence to support this that's just his story that he came up with. And I guess that's where he stood and the police stood. So that's the last thing I covered. So now we're in January of 2009 and Amanda and Raphael have been in jail for 14 months. And finally, their murder trial begins in Perugia. It's decided that the proceedings can be held with the media president, president with the media present, but there's no live television coverage allowed. So six months later, June of 2009,

six months later. Yeah. These things take forever, man. She's still in jail. Oh yeah. She's been there for 14 months. Now she's on trial,

but like she doesn't take the stand for six months while the trial's happening this shit takes forever man it's not like the actual what happened to this she had to be in jail for like three months because she which like by the way was already horseshit i thought it was just three months uh i don't know was it three months Maybe I just wasn't thinking in my head. I think maybe I added it up and I went, that's not true. That's not possible. Yeah. I'm trying to see.

Last I checked, it was like that Ruby guy. He was in trouble and then they needed to wait three more months. Oh, right. Yes. They were ordered to stand trial in three months time time but they'd already been in jail so like this this is oh no i didn't even process that yeah so yes exactly so that was just a reference to at one point when rudy's trial was happening they had to wait for their trial three months later but they'd already been in there for like i don't know nine months or something so christine chief now it's been 14 months the trial begins she takes a stand

six months into the trial because this is like a huge case so yeah sucks fucking wow i'm angry wow okay and during all this it's just like blowing up everywhere that you know her sex narrative her diary is being exposed. Like she just can't get a fucking break. Oh my God. I forgot about the HIV thing. Yeah. Oh my God.

And she did talk about at one point, like she felt so hopeless. She was like, I considered suicide. Like I just didn't know what to do. Well, yeah. She's alone there. Her family's in a different country. I mean, it's terrifying. It's terrible.

How is this legal? How is this legal's terrifying it's terrible how is this legal how is this legal how is this how is this legal i don't know if you're awaiting trial and you're in jail you're you're in jail even if you found innocent after your trial and you're being held but they proved they like they made it so clear that it wasn't that it wasn't her like well you're not gonna like the rest of this story then because i'm just gonna stop i just have to accept i just i forgot how angry i was yeah it's bad it really keeps coming in waves makes my tum tum hurt a little bit um so she finally takes a stand at her own trial six months in and as she's done already time and time again she explained what

happened that night she had been at rafael's house where she received a text message from patrick lamumba her boss saying she didn't have to come into work she replied with the infamous text saying see you later not literally but that's how they took it they then smoked weed watched amelie had sex and went to sleep and also they read harry potter but that's i guess besides point. What was it? In Italian and German. Yeah. They saw photos of like the scene and there was literally a German. I have the German Harry Potter books. And I was like, oh, I have that book sitting there.

So the next morning she woke up and returned to her house. And that's where she discovered the body called Raphael. Or she didn't discover the body. She saw the blood and the feces called Raphael. Right. He called the military police. They broke down the door etc so when asked about her relationship with meredith um her roommate she denied any claims that they didn't get along i mean they went to the chocolate festival for oh right i forgot about the chocolate festival how could you forget about the chocolate festival because i just got so filled with rage oh yeah

about everything else i'm gonna need a chocolate festival after this my i just got so filled with rage oh yeah about everything else i'm gonna need a chocolate festival after this my mom just got back from germany and she i said the only thing i want is milka chocolate and she's coming over later today and she's bringing me the chocolate can you imagine if she forgets i will literally make her turn get back in the car go get it that's not that's not an option m um i'm very excited anyway so when asked why she had signed this confession saying she was there and her boss did it she explained that she'd only done it because she was put under this intense police like pressure 53 hours of duress yes under duress brutality they fucking hit her in the head um and in the process

yeah i remember they like slapped her no i don't remember that oh yeah they slapped her uh and said remember and they screamed i remember them screaming remember remember but i don't remember them hitting her in the head yeah they physically they hit her in the head it just keeps getting fucking worse yeah a man literally just slapped her so uh-huh didn't let her get a lawyer etc um and so she says like i only said it because i was under this you know pressure and i felt deranged like they were altering my conscious my reality blah blah blah so in the prosecution minini who keeps being like why would you say it if you didn't mean it uh he he pushed the motive

that amanda killed meredith as part of a sex game as we know halloween sex game to be specific a halloween sex game or an all saints day sex game which doesn't sound quite as quite as fun um and of course amanda was like and he says this had to do with rafael and rudy uh and she was like the mastermind and of course she was like the mastermind. And so of course she's like, no, that's nothing that didn't happen. We were watching Amelie leave me alone.

But the prosecution claimed Knox was sex crazed. One quote lifted from Lumumba's lawyer, who I guess turned on her because she had initially implicated him. So even though she was pressured into that, like she said he was guilty so his lawyer carlo pichelli called amanda a she-devil who loves wild sex and who knowingly lied to police to sidetrack the investigation he asked the court who is amanda knox is she the mild-looking fresh-faced person you see here or the one devoted to lust drugs and alcohol that

emerges from the court documents it's like oh wow she had sex with seven people and you told her she had hiv yeah now she's like a she-devil who loves wild sex she's a she's a she-devil because she had sex with her boyfriend one time and that was one of seven men in her entire life and she literally and also she doesn't she kissed him once she doesn't have HIV, but we don't know that. And she's the devil, obviously. And it's like, if this were a sex game, there were two other people involved. But of course it's the woman's fault that she wrangled them in and they had no control.

You know, it's just another fucking like horrible patriarchal look at this of like, oh, well, she was the ringleader. She was the witch who like controlled the men and it's like oh so they had no fucking self-control and they stabbed someone in the throat but it's her fault like just pisses me off um so to support their case the prosecution would refer to amanda and rafael's behavior ever since the body was found aka their kiss the lingerie shopping the diary entries they said it was all part of her evil ways and then rudy fucking get a took the stand and rudy has already been convicted and sentenced

to 30 years yeah and he said he said something that he saw a silhouette of her yes so he's about to show up on stand and speak against amanda i guess like you said to like lower his own guilt in the case to shorten his own sentence who knows but he shows up and everyone's like wait what the fuck this guy's already in prison for this and now he's showing up and so as reported by abc news the one person already convicted of the crime appeared in an italian courtroom today and said he saw amanda knox leaving the cottage as her british roommate lay dying of a knife wound to the throat he ended his statement by turning to the lawyer representing kircher's family meredith's family and said i want the kircher family to know that i did not kill and did not rape their daughter it was not me that

took her life away and it's like your semen was found in her body right you admit it like it's like your evidence was all your evidence was evidence was all over the place that your dna was there you were like the bloody crime scene he literally confessed to this by the way like he like or he said that he was in the bathroom and then someone stabbed he said oh i happened to be in the other room yeah when somebody when and he said oh am Amanda wasn't there. And now he's on stand saying, oh, actually, she was there and she did it. And it's like, you've already been convicted. Sit the fuck down, man.

All the tiny little things that, you know, all the, oh, she wasn't there. Actually, she was there as a silhouette has completely changed who I saw her in person. She was completely there and she was outside the window and she loves Halloween sex games and it's all her fault. And he said, I want, he looked at Meredith. This is sick. He looked at Meredith's family. It was like, I want the Kircher family to know I did not kill or rape their daughter. And it's like, but like you did though.

Like your evidence was inside her. Yeah. Like you did though. So I don't know. You've already been convicted of it. It's not even allegedly like you literally have been you're in prison for it whatever right right so um even though this was like a big gasp moment for the whole uh crowd at the trial uh nox's amanda's legal team were like totally they like got real fired up about this and said today does not affect amanda's trial because no one believes rudy getty he is not reliable he is a liar uh even the prosecutor

said this today he has changed his stories which like yeah he had like yeah so many times like 180 degrees like he completely changed the story so the fact that anybody would be like wow what a hard-hitting testimony it's like no he's full of shit he's just trying to get his jail sentence lowered yep um so as amanda's defense team pointed out get his dna was found all over the crime scene and on the victim inside the victim amanda's and rafael's were only on select items like the bra clasp and the knife and so then amanda's defense team was like how would amanda and rafael have cleaned up only their dna but left but left everyone else rudy's yeah it doesn't make sense unless you're able to wipe all the way around every little fingerprint and just yeah or like skin flake like every little piece of

dna that you would have left behind. They were able to clean up everything except Rudy's, which was all over the room. So it's like, that's a stupid argument. I love fired up Christine, by the way, because I know usually you don't pick a side. And now every other word is like, they're so stupid. I'm totally on her side because I just I can't I can't bring myself to nothing. None of this convinces me I guess like they have yet to prove to me yeah beyond reasonable doubt that she did anything but

whatever and the bra clasp even though it had Amanda's or I think it had Raphael's DNA on it it was discovered 46 days after the murder and yeah and they had not like cordoned off the crime scene like people were going in and out um they were looking at multiple pieces of evidence at once um rudy and amanda had not rudy uh rafael and amanda had been in and out so like it's entirely possible some of his dna got in the room or her dna got in the room without um her having to be involved yeah because it was the it was the knife right that she was like i don't know how to explain that yeah i don't it's like i mean like yeah dna just kind of travels

like just that's the that's why we try to follow it for a crime and hmm yours was there yeah and and and rudy's was all over the room amanda's was found in like very tiny small select places same with rafael's um and we'll get back to the knife because that is just turns out to be a whole oh god okay bunch of bullshit but um right so they're like how on earth dna which is untraceable to the human eye a lot of the time how would they have selectively cleaned up only their dna and left rudy's that doesn't make any sense um they're not pinning it on rudy with his dna and one of the guys one of the forensic experts said something really interesting which because i never totally knew how like you said how easily dna travels but he said like things as minuscule as skin flakes

if you if you he said if you rub your arm in a room like they can find dna i learned this because i i because they say like 90 of dust is actually like skin particles yeah i hate that fact it's something gnarly like it's always in the same listicle where they say like you eat 25 bugs a year in your mouth when you're sleeping god it's like it's like hey all the things you hate about living um no whenever i whenever i think of how much of dust is actually skin i think about it every time i sweep where i'm like oh this is just me rj and allison's skin having a hug sweet yeah you know what you're right i just shouldn't do it anymore i mean i don't but so i always think like how the hell did all of this happen and it's

just got to be like just you know yeah you just if you walk through if your hair falls off you if you end up like sweating or if you're crying or if you're spitting and you're talking i mean who knows but so it's not hard to get your dna spread out so if the bra class was found 46 days later after the murder and the crime scene hadn't been like cordoned off there could be any number of ways that the dna got on there so that's just not a fair argument now it's december so this has been going on a full year um the trial and she's still in jail wait didn't this start in 2007 yeah that's when the murder took place okay but she's been in jail

for a year well i think she's probably been in jail since the murder, since she was arrested for the murder. So, that was July 11, 2008 was when she was arrested. So, a year and a half. Yes, a year and a half. Ah! That's, whoa!

It's one of those things where, like, you don't even have the words to explain my anger, but also like my i like i want to empathize so badly but i could i couldn't even begin to tell you where how to feel i couldn't grasp it no it is and that's why i thought it was really interesting when she said like it's people's fear that this could happen to anyone that makes them want to think i'm guilty because they don't want to think. Right. Oh, well, she's totally innocent.

The world is just fucked up and this just happened and it could happen to me or my daughter. Just stuck in jail for a year and a half for something you didn't do. Well, and not even not even getting convicted. You're just stuck there. You're just like waiting. And I mean, that's happens here. It's pretty, you know, that's just how it works. Oh, my God. Unless you're out on bail. You know,'s happens here too it's pretty you know that's just how it works oh my god unless you're out on bail you know i know but it's just one of those yeah it's also one of those things that not only i hope would never happen to me but i don't

even think about it so for yeah why would you right when all of a sudden it comes into my head that it's even a possibility that i'm like no no no no no in a foreign country you're just like over there with your new love and that makes it so no no in a foreign country you're just like over there with your new love and that makes it so much worse for some reason like you're already in a horrible situation but on top of it you're there's a language barrier and so you just feel even like all you had left was language and now you don't even have that culture yeah exactly you're just learning this new place wow and you're not even 20 you're 20 years old like i can't got them like you're all like you're already so confused for how you even got in there but you're not even 20 you're 20 years old like I can't got them like you're already so confused

for how you even got in there but you can't even talk to anyone about it no no and you write in a diary and they literally put it in the fucking National Enquirer yeah you can't even write to yourself you can't even talk to your fucking self the Daily Mail gets to share it with everybody so yeah so it's December now so the trial

her trial has been going on for a year they've been 50 hearings the whole world has been following this um amanda knox and rafael solicito solicito sorry are convicted of the murder of meredith kircher i want to say i'm surprised but like that was where we were heading right like i i mean every way they it's not their fault and yet they're in trouble so yeah it seems to be sadly this zero percent shocks me yeah they haven't had any comeuppance yet i would say um so amanda sentenced to 26 years in italian prison and 26 years yeah i mean rudy was convicted and sentenced to 30 so you know the number of the set the years in the sentencing is what shocks me more than the fact that she got i mean she hadn't even been

convicted yet and she spent a year and a half so i that her being found guilty didn't shock me but the amount of years is insane well like if they really believed she raped and murdered this girl then like you know they're gonna give her a full scene please tell me she did not spend all 26 years so so well she couldn't have because this was in 2009 so you know okay even if but you're right jury's out on i'll i'll up to you on what happened but okay she couldn't have served all of it yet if she's still there which i'll tell you whether she is or not oh god yeah in 2000 so how many years she that would have been 25, 2025 she would have come out? No.

2009 plus 25 years. 35? Yeah. 35. Something like that. But she would have been like in her 40s or 50. Like in her. I mean, it's terrifying.

She would have been like 40. So Amanda sentenced to 26 years. Raphael's sentenced to 25. And on top of all this, Amanda and Raphael are to pay Meredith's family $7 million. In like wrongful death, I guess. And also, wait, why did she get an extra year? Oh, because remember, she is a mastermind yeah okay what i don't know yeah apparently so damn okay yeah i'm not really sure but

you know okay sure she got an extra seven million dollars yeah they were ordered to pay that to merida's family and she was ordered to pay lamumba sixty thousand dollars for defamation and which pisses me off because i'm like they literally cornered her into saying that he was there like so basically the police just said give us sixty thousand dollars that's what i just heard they were like you said a terrible thing about him you should pay him money and it's like you said it first it's literally like i dare you to say horrible things and now also you owe him money because oh wow what a terrible thing to say it's like wait a second you told me to say horrible things and now also you owe him money because oh wow what a terrible thing to say it's like wait a second you told me to say it yeah so backwards uh so the defamation charges

continued as amanda appeared in court on june 1st 2010 uh facing more charges for saying that italian police beat her during an interrogation she said police used the threat of physical violence to intimidate and pressure her which led to falsely accuse lamumba of kircher's murder but officials deny these allegations and that's according to cnn so basically the police now took her in for defamation for saying that they like hit her and like interrogated her in this horrible way so now they're suing her and it's like christine christine oh my god this girl can't get a fucking break christine i don't i really i don't have i don't have it in me to i don't know how to i'm so mad at that like so i know and i'm used to being mad at the american

justice system which is so fucked in its own way, but it's like, wow, now there's new things to be fucked about a different country's judicial system. In my mind, I'm always so mad at what's going on over here. I like to think that everything is different in another space, but apparently

they've got their shit handled. At least in this one case, that is not at all the fucking truth i mean humans are humans are humans i don't have much faith in in a lot of um this doesn't help so the the police beat her and then and then she says they they hit me and then they say we're suing you for defamation yeah how dare you say that so i don't even know why this shocks me anymore it's just baffling so they hit her in the head they screamed her they keep her up for 53 hours whatever they they keep her they don't let her sleep they don't get her let her get a lawyer they speak to her in italian they they tell her she has uh hiv they

make shit up they like psychologically you know fuck with her and then she finally caves obviously and says yeah okay fine this guy did it and then they say well why did you say this guy did it why did you say that and she's like because you made me and then they're like well we're suing you how dare you accuse you know it's like they're just being cornered and cornered and cornered i don't like i don't even know how you get to find peace or like get justice how could you ever feel like right about anything yeah how do you ever get justice how could you ever feel like right about anything yeah how do you ever get justice again unless you turn into like a superhero and beat the living shit out of these people yeah or you have to go to like a buddhist temple and spend 10 years like recovering

like i feel like i'm so angry that i can't fathom going through it and recovering mentally oh my god i'm just always amazed how people get through shit like this um so she maintained her innocence obviously and on november 24th 2010 amanda and rafael began the process to appeal their conviction so it's a whole nother year later they're appealing the conviction now um and as amanda's lawyer luciano uh girga commented quote rather than prosecutors having to prove she is guilty, we now have to prove her innocence, which is much more difficult to do. But they try. So June 27th, 2011, the appeals of Amanda, who's now 23. And remember, this all happened when she was 20.

So she's been in there for a long time. She literally went for a year abroad and now she's fucking stuck in a prison for years um never when this is all over and she gets to go home if anyone ever tells her like oh my god like i love living abroad she has every right to just you know that i was wondering that too i was like what happens if she's like watching tv and it's like italy is on like i think i would be so triggered i can't fathom how i would not i would not be able to even probably have a tv or couldn't hear italian like i would be looking at a book i don't know i mean like imagine having a kid one day and they're like i want to go travel abroad

are you kidding me i don't like in history class one day and they're learning about rome you know like are you like oh there's little sorry speaking of italian giovanni loves to uh he's so bad a little mouthy you need to be quiet okay thank you thank you good boy okay sorry yes um yeah i don't know how you would cope i i i got angry at illy i was like i don't even have anything to do i'm like mad at all of italy for some reason i don't even want to eat pizza for a whole day are you kidding me till tomorrow probably holy shit that's how mad i am i would be li livid. I mean, truly, if I were her, like, all jokes aside, like, I could not, I would never be, I would never be okay again. No, me neither.

And, like, you can't get peace because everybody knows your fucking name and you're- And, like, just while we're at it, throw a slut-shaming fest on top of all of this. That's true, too. Your reputation's been more than ruined, like, in every way imaginable. Your reputation's been more than ruined, like, in every way imaginable. So, anyway. So she's appealing this, and she's in court for defamation against Lumumba and the police. They're appealing this a year and a half later.

She's 23, Raphael's 26. And the appeal begins with fucking Rudy is back and he testifies against both of them. What does he have left to say? What could come out of his stupid little mouth? Is he bored? Go sit down. You're in jail. Stop. You did it. He must be

bored. He's in jail. I guess so. Like, fucking hell. So, I guess there's been more news about get a since since the last time he testified so according to bbc uh this guy who was in prison named mario alessi he was a convicted child murderer uh he was in prison great great start he was in prison with rudy get a and i guess rudy Rudy allegedly according to Mario Alessi told him a prison confession during recreation time at Viterbo prison and he said that Getty confided in him that Amanda and Raphael were innocent and so he's like wait this motherfucker told me that

they had nothing to do with it. And so Alessi remembered Rudy links arms with me, inviting me to take a walk with him. He has something important to tell me. He said, adding that Gedde was worried because I don't know whether to tell the truth or not. And that the truth is altogether different from what you hear on TV. So Alessi comes forward and is like, this motherfucker said that like amanda and rafael weren't even there like he told me this at recreation time so then get a comes forward and is like that never happened he's making it up blah blah blah and so amanda amanda comes onto the takes a stand and she responds to these statements and says she is shocked at what he said

and the only time that rudy rafael and I were in one room together was in a courtroom. He knows what the truth is. I don't know what happened that night. So that's, like, what else can you say? I mean, that's all she can say. Yeah, honestly, at this point, if I were even a man in ox, if someone ever came up to me and was like, did you do it? After 26 years, I'd be like, what's the point of even giving you an answer? Like, why?

What do you think I'm going to say? I would be so beyond over talking about this. Because I'd be like, it's not like my freedom even matters anymore. I just got 26 years of my life taken away from me. So it doesn't matter what you think. She has a very striking, like her eyes are very striking. And so she's very recognizable and she said you know when she's like in a grocery store people will be like i know you and she's

like i just all i want to she's like i ignore them but all i want to do is turn around and be like you don't know me like yeah like like what do you know that i apparently have like sexy halloween parties like and then kill people like yeah that i'm a murderous halloween witch uh sex sex deviant yeah and i kissed my boyfriend once yeah my harry potter boyfriend oh anyway so she says like listen i don't know what the fuck happened that night he's the only one who knows that he knows that that's the truth so finally forensic experts get involved and take all this old evidence like the bra clasp and the knife and they're gonna run this through a whole new process of forensic analysis which is great because

they're finally like re-analyzing everything to make sure everything's been covered uh spoiler alert it has not been uh properly analyzed what a shock so two court-appointed experts testify that the knife reportedly used in the attack contained no source of blood. There was no trace of blood on it, which they kind of implied there was. They said there was DNA on the knife, but there was no blood on the knife, and there was no DNA on the bra clasp that police used to implicate Raphael. So these forensic experts are like no that's not even true like there's that's just made up like they just made it up um so here's a point by point deconstruction the experts say that because of the errors made by police during the original

investigation the evidence all the evidence that they went over should be considered inadmissible uh and yet it fully convicted them so So here are a couple of things. There's this forensic expert named Dr. Carla Vecchiotti, and her job was to take the original DNA evidence and reanalyze it for the new trial. And in the Netflix documentary, she said, contamination was one of the issues raised at court. The bra clasp was found under a small rug

46 days after the murder. After 46 days, it's possible that other people could have brought dna traces from the hallways or bathroom into merida's room in fact on the clasp there's rafael's dna but there are also there's also dna of two unknown males as well and the police never even mentioned that there's literally evidence on her bra of two men oh my god that just never got brought up like unknown men um their dna was on the bra so a trace of rafael's was found but so were two other men so it's like wow you conveniently left that fact out so okay she also says dna must be objective you can't

interpret it for what you want it to be and i must say there were also problems with contamination in the lab the forensics police definitively identified amanda's profile you could see it very well it was a good profile but with regards to meredith's dna found it was such a small amount so scarce when you have such a scarce dna the likelihood of contamination is very high so with the knife she said that amanda's dna was on the knife which was at rafael's house which makes sense if she cooks there and she hangs out at his apartment and they have dinner together whatever it makes sense that her dna would be on his knife but she said when they said they found meredith that is not provable it was such a small amount that it can't be certain it was actually meredith's dna on the blade of the knife which was the one thing amanda said like i can't explain

why that would be there and now this expert's like no we can't say that's her dna it's too small there's not enough you can't say that it's hers yeah so when the investigator asked when you looked at the knife were you inspecting it by itself the forensics police replied no we examined 50 of meredith's samples at the same time okay So all 50 of these were being in the lab at the same time. So the fact that the trace of it, it wasn't done like in a very clean, like separate each piece was. They weren't an individual rooms or test labs or whatever.

Yeah. So just also like side note, is there when they're doing all these trials is there also a language barrier there like are they just having a translator come in i think there's probably translators because i'm pretty sure amanda at this point is speaking english in in her testimony okay um i will say by the time she like this you see her like at the end of this ordeal she's like speaking italian pretty well so i think right well if that's all you've got if that's all you've got to do with your time and

also like it's like life or death and that like it's the only way you can communicate with everybody yeah talk about like an immersive experience wow i mean because i also do a lingo you just like get Who needs Duolingo to get arrested in Italy? Geez, yeah. Well, also, because I wonder how much... I mean, it's such a small amount of trauma compared to the rest, but imagine the additional fear in the middle of a trial when you can't even understand the lawyers defending you when they're in the middle of a courtroom. Yeah, when there's idioms and that get already got you in trouble.

Yeah. Every every second I would be so uncomfortable. Yeah, I'm pretty sure there were that they were speaking their native tongue and that there were translators because her quotes are pretty intricate. Now, I want to add, remember when you said like we're not eating pizza till tomorrow so are we not eating pizza till next week is that what I'm hearing

no we can eat pizza tomorrow don't worry I'm just going to tell you about what Donald Trump had to say during this whole ordeal what the fuck Christine what that look at this point what curveball couldn't hit me square in the face you sound like donald trump is what i'm saying so it cuts during this documentary cuts to a clip of donald

trump like he was not president at this point right like he's he's not even run like this is 2011 so this mofo gets on tv and says and're like, so you think the president should get involved? And he goes, the president should get involved. We should boycott Italy. So he has a grand plan. Never changed. Sounds like. So on point.

Like, gross. We should boycott Italy. The dumb shitty feds. Unfortunately. So the second I said I shouldn't eat pizza anymore, did you just. I was like, yeah, let's boycott pizza tomorrow. For once, Donald Trump and I have something in common, I guess. I don't think he boycotted jack shit, though, so don't worry.

You're more committed. Great. Yeah, so that was just a stupid quote. They stuck in there. We should boycott Italy. Like, what are you talking about? What does that even mean? Nothing.

Okay. God. So anyway, so the other crucial piece of evidence that this dr carlo vecchiati enlightens us with is about the kitchen knife in the drawer so that was found at rafael's house so detectives already claimed this is the murder weapon amanda's dna is on the handle and meredith's dna is on the blade and like i said amanda was like i don't even that one i can't explain. That one I have no explanation for.

So during the appeal, forensic specialists testified that the quality of the DNA sample on the blade was too small to be reliable as evidence. And not only that, so I'd already said like there was too little of it to even confirm scientifically that it was Meredith's. But on top of that, then they looked at her wounds and said, this knife doesn't even match her her wounds like her stab wounds what it doesn't the murder weapon does not even match this out how long after all of the after they had to appeal her like she was already convicted for this murder who didn't realize that i feel like that's exactly what okay and this motherfucker juliano keeps saying oh i still think she's guilty and it's like you know what there's something to be said for people who refuse to learn when they're wrong to refuse to accept being wrong like that's just there's something to be said for like you won't accept being corrected right it's oh my god are you kidding me yeah it's it's it's and it's dangerous can we fast forward to the part where this gets like a good like we have

like we're happy yeah um we can have pizza tomorrow is that comforting just look forward to that um so all in all um according to injustice in perugia.org the following evidence was stacked up against get a specifically who's already been convicted but this is just proof evidence at least that he acted in this alone okay he admitted he was in the room his dna was found in and on meredith's body his dna along with meredith's blood was found on meredith's purse his excrement was found in the toilet oh it was his it was his his shoe prints were discovered in her blood uh and were found in the bathroom area in the bedroom and the hallway uh-huh his handprint in meredith's blood was found on a pillowcase in her room he had a cut on his right hand that was still visible when he's arrested and he had fled the country so all of that and they're still like oh no but amanda

orchestrated the whole thing which is bad who is running this who is okay it's fucking giuliano i'm telling you it's it's i mean this is so meanie this is so stupid like at this point like he has to not be sleeping well right like there's no way he believes still that a man is not responsible making a point of like about how catholic he is and like they literally show him in a catholic church and he's like he's like they will pay in the afterlife and i'm like you are a you will pay in the afterlife son of a bitch i i just kept wondering i wonder what happens after we die and do you find out like that you really fucked up big time

I don't know yeah like what okay so he's catholic and like what like and also like so her being like affectionate with her boyfriend was like just such a sin that it's now like he's been dead against

god like what is this I really think a lot of it was him looking at her as like this wretched like type yeah like harlot from the bible like she's she's leading these men astray like i really think i feel like at some point he had to figure out like logically it was not her fault but he'd already committed so hard he just has to say yes yeah i wonder if like you get to a point where you just can't and it's too late to go back you know i wonder um he got promoted later anyway so we'll get there but yeah no comment september 27 2011 uh celestitoito, Raphael's lawyer, Giulia Bongiorno,

hammers all of it home, saying that the media portrays Amanda as a femme fatale, comparing her to the cartoon character Jessica Rabbit, who protests, I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way, in the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Oh my god. She says,

There is no physical evidence placing Amanda and Raphael at the scene of the crime. She attacks the credibility of the DNA evidence and says Amanda's statements to police the night of the murder should be discounted because of the hostile questioning by police. So that's their rebuttal, but we all know that already. Right. Okay. Okay. October 3rd, 2011, an appellate court jury of six citizens and two judges overturned their convictions.

Wow. How long did it take, though? So that was October of 2011. 2011? Yeah, so she's been in there since 2008. So yeah, like three years. Oh my god! So the judge wrote,

oh my god so the judge wrote even taken all together the evidence did not prove in any way the guilt of amanda knox and rafael seleshito for the crime um obviously amanda is overcome by emotion and she like collapses and her lawyers like help carry her out of the court she leaves italy immediately oh well duh duh. Duh. Also, let's take a moment to we are talking about Amanda Knox. We are not talking enough about her Harry Potter boyfriend. What's his name again? Raphael. Raphael. That man also deserves the energy we're giving

Amanda. Oh, completely. That man was still also in jail for three years. He was even less involved. He was two degrees away from this person yeah he was like my girlfriend is like getting accused of murder and all of a sudden like i'm part of the alibi that didn't work and now like i'm in trouble like that did they break up so yeah so apparently while they were in jail he wrote to her and said i I still have feelings for you. And she was like, I don't think I can do this anymore.

Like, it was just really heartbreaking. The whole thing was really sad. I wonder. I mean, honestly, I don't I don't blame her. Right. No. Like, I feel like any anything related to that experience could not be a happy one. It's like the one time where you could be like, like, truthfully be like, it's not you.

It's me. I'm going through a lot right now, like, truthfully be like, it's not you, it's me. I'm going through a lot right now. No, but literally, I'm going through a lot. It's not you. It's just, like, the entire nation makes me sad. It's the justice system. Yeah. It's this guy, Giuliano. That poor guy. So, for all the

energy we're giving Amanda, let's, everyone also give snacks to this guy, because I hope he's doing well. Oh my god. Oh, well, he has a cute Twitter profile pic, so I guess he's winning in that regard. Yeah. So blah, blah, blah. They overturn it. Amanda jumps on a fucking plane and is out of there. And obviously she returns home to Seattle. It's pretty fucked up because her dad is like outside the house and the media has like swarmed their front yard and he's standing there and they're like one of the journalists is like

well you know you only have a couple weeks left before she's not a hot ticket anymore and you're not gonna get much money out of this story like you know that right i mean i'm sure they're trying to bait him but it's so fucked up and he goes sorry i don't quite look at my daughter as a hot ticket for the media. Right. I think of my daughter as someone I haven't gotten to see in three years because. Because she's been wrongly accused. Yeah.

Yeah. And it was just like, what do you expect him to say? Like, you're right. We should call Harper Collins. I don't know. It's just bizarre. He was clearly trying to bait this man, but was like oh my god how like low do we have to stoop people um so she signs a book deal with harper collins fun fact so i was gonna say

with that book money please tell me she tried to like sue the cops for defamation so she does do good things with her future which is great but i mean i get it i would write a book too i'd be like listen i need a to process this somehow and b to like share my side of this fucking story when everybody else has been slut shaming me across the headlines for three years i don't i don't blame her for one second also like i need fucking money like i don't have a job right also in the middle of college i got put in prison and like you took a car from me. Yeah. So, and she can't just go work at the Dairy Queen because, like, everybody recognizes her. So it's like, anyway. So that's not the end.

Sorry. What? I thought that was it. No. Christine, I don't think I can do it anymore. I know. I'm sorry. Em, I'm really sorry. Wrap it up. Okay, just when you thought this was all over two years later, March of 2013,

Italy's highest court, the court of cassation reopens the case. Now this is another thing. Well, I guess I'll quote the New York times. I was going to try to explain it, but I'll let the New York times do that job. Quote.

This highlights the divide between the legal systems of Italy and the United States where defendants cannot be tried twice for the same crime after an acquittal. In the U.S., if you're acquitted, you're good. You can't be recharged for that crime. Not so in Italy, my friends. So for the rest of her life, she just gets to live in fear? She can be pulled right back into that fucking trial. So she never gets to feel safe ever again.

This woman is still alive. And at any moment, she just has to be prepared to like go back to jail for another three yeah i don't know if there's like a limit like maybe you can only be tried like i don't know how i don't know the details but that's so she thought she was she never gets to feel safe again yeah she thought she was fucking free now they called two years later and are like oh actually we reopened it because according to the guardian prosecutors argued that the perugia court that acquitted them has lost its or had lost its bearings in the case and had erred in numerous ways and it's like we already determined that y'all fucked up to begin with

now you're saying they fucked up whatever so nox who was obviously in seattle and was ready to release her book was devastated um she said the prosecution's theory of my involvement meredith's murder has been repeatedly revealed to be completely unfounded and unfair and yet again the trial begins again also just so we're clear like she kissed her boyfriend once and was considered a slut for the rest of time and then it got and now she's writing a book after this she is going to be seen as such a clout chaser yep and like this is just proof like all of it was for money oh my god she doesn't even have a 15 year old living in her in her house yeah having a a sexual relationship with a 15 year old like some fucking catholics do allegedly alleged allegedly thank you um so anyway retrial begins on september 20th nope 30th 2013 uh and neither

i don't blame her amanda nor rafael are present for this trial they're home um so rafael takes the stand uh i guess like virtually where he describes his charges as absurd and the evidence against him as an illusion and he continues there was not a basis to charge me to put me in jail i don't wish anybody on earth to go through what i went through and amanda basically sends an email writing the same sort of thing she wrote in italian i must repeat to you i'm innocent i did not rape i did not steal i did not kill meredith so on january 30th of 2014 after 11 and a half hours of deliberation the jury once again convict amanda and rafael for a second time oh my oh my god oh my fucking god and so because of this

the judge adds two and a half years to their original sentences so now she has 27 and a half and he has 26 and a half who sorry can you remind me again who reopened this and why like the italy's highest court it went all the way up to the highest court and they reopened it because they said that the the last trial had been done basically insufficiently and forensically was deficient in the way. So what was the evidence in this, that this time around that like really like, you know, I'm so mind blowing.

I'm not sure. I, I'm, I'm not sure what they could have said to be like, actually the knife did have her DNA. Like my guess is they had other forensic experts come in and say, no, it probably is Meredith's DNA.

Like, I'm not really sure. That's my guess. But I don't think I've ever really been so affected. I think maybe a couple weeks ago or something, there was one that, like, really got me going. And, like, I think this beats it. Yeah, this one's so infuriating. We're thankfully almost the end. But Amanda, Raphael, their families, the entire

world was like stunned, especially in the U S when you're used to, like, if you get off or you're convicted or you're acquitted, you're fine. Like you're with that charge, you're done. Like you don't need to face trial for that again, but everyone was shocked. So, uh, let's see. Obviously they still maintain their innocence. On May 1st of 2014, Amanda did an interview with CNN where she asserted, I did not kill my friend.

I did not wield a knife. I had no reason to. She's probably ingrained these into her fucking brain by now. Yeah, it's probably her daily affirmation. Yeah, like literally, yeah. So then on March 27th, 2015, an Italian Supreme Court, thank the Lord, overturned Amanda's conviction for the murder of her roommate, Meredith Kircher. So she and Raphael were finally free.

I'm guessing there's probably some limit on how many times you can retry somebody. Because now, apparently, they're good. Like, they're good. They're out of there. Why did they overturn it again? It was just the same kind of process all over again their lawyers appealed it they brought the same you know forensic evidence to the table does this mean they had to like sit in jail again while they waited for all this i don't think so i think it was going through

the appeals process and they were just waiting um so they thought they were going to end up going back to jail um but can you imagine having to relive your nightmare and like after everything you went through for three years almost that exact same amount of time you're finally done with this crisis you're home and you're home you're safe you're like that's was the worst nightmare i'll ever have to go through and then all of a sudden someone calls you and says hey you have to relive it all and it's just even if she didn't have to do it the or and rafael too but the mental torture of knowing like this is what you get to go back to it's always hovering over your head and and so thank god it was like months

later that they started the appeals process so they didn't have to go back yet but if that appeal hadn't gone through they would have had to go back and go to prison for 27 years so she it was really cool because they had video footage of her finding out that like the verdict and so she was at home with her family and she just starts screaming like i can't believe it i can't believe it and then she calls rafael and she's like in italian she's like rafael we're free we did it like we don't have to go back and I'm shocked that that was her reaction because I would have been like again like at that point I would be like at any moment they're gonna say never mind again I know it's it's just so heartbreaking because like the amount of emotion still so many years later that you're still probably having to go through and deal with like I don't know how

you don't I'm also i do think it's really precious that her and rafael did bond through this yeah it's horrible but even though they were at least they had something in common like i mean you've got no one else that knows who you've been right who else understands this exactly so she called him and it was really sweet because like even though they're obviously not together anymore she was like in italian and that's when i noticed wow her italian's a lot better wow um so but she was like we're free we did it we don't. She was like in Italian. And that's when I noticed, wow, her Italian's a lot better. Um, so, but she was like, we're free. We did it. We don't. And I was like, wow, this is her family sobbing. I mean, it's, it's heart wrenching. Um, so thank the Lord she got it appealed again. Um, so, uh, Amanda and Raphael were finally free. And she said in a statement,

the knowledge of my innocence has given me strength in the darkest times of this ordeal, and throughout this ordeal, I've received invaluable support from my family, friends, and strangers. To them, I say thank you from the bottom of my heart. Your kindness has sustained me. I only wish that I could thank each and every one of you in person. So September of 2015, the Italian Supreme Court released their explanation behind the verdict, saying they blamed stunning flaws in the investigation and increased media attention for creating a frantic search for guilty parties. their explanation behind the verdict saying they blamed stunning flaws in the investigation and

increased media attention for creating a frantic search for guilty parties the justices find a complete lack of biological traces connecting knox and celestito to the crimes the court said evidence still points to the guilt of rudy get it okay like i could have told you that five years ago but all right glad we're finally all there um and as final icing on the cake on january 24th 2019 the european court of human rights ordered italy to pay knox more than twenty thousand dollars in damages for the interrogation and in her blog she commented i am grateful for their wisdom in acknowledging the reality of false confessions and the need to reform police interrogation methods which still happens in the u.s wrongful convictions happen here coerced confessions happen here more than we'd like to think um so at least this is being drawn you know

some attendance being drawn to that issue and this is the last bit here according to a 2010 nope 2021 in touch weekly article amanda has been married to a man named christopher robinson which wow that sounds a lot like christopher robin but christopher robin but uh buried to christopher robinson since february of 2020 so very recent wow um right right before the pandemic yay she got she snuck that in there uh where guests had to wear costumes um i know it's kind of cute because i remember when this came out in the news and i was like oh what, what a strange update to the Amanda Knox case. Like everyone's costumes. Okay.

So she they're now expecting a baby. Very happy for them. They worked on a true crime podcast together called The Truth About True Crime with Amanda Knox. And it ran for four seasons. I know I was like badass man and they now co-host a podcast called labyrinths which is about navigating their own personal mazes in life and i'm like man she really like she owned this shit wow good for her i know so as mentioned in the beginning she has a medium blog where she updates what did i call them blog articles yikes

she updates them regularly and in 2017 she said she was devoting herself to writing and activism for the wrongly accused which is great sure and rafael himself is engaged to his partner andrea so they're happy hopefully too um and finally as far as meredith's family because again it just kind of wrecks my heart that like her whole story was just sidelined by this, which is like her tragedy is the biggest of all. You know, she was brutally raped and murdered. But so according to Sydney Morning Herald, the Kircher family still celebrates Meredith's birthday. They honor her on the anniversary of her death. Her father, John Kircher, has written a book called Meredith, Our daughter's murder and the heartbreaking quest for the truth.

And he writes, so Meredith, this book is for you and all the people who loved and love you still. So if you want to watch the documentary, it's a great, it has the same, um, same viewpoint that I hold,

which is like, what the fuck were they thinking? Um, but there's plenty of documentaries online, books, et cetera. So, you know,

form your own opinion happily i'm not gonna tell you what to believe but i'll tell you what i believe so that's where i stand yeah wow the end finally no more i'm xing out the page no more fucking like we're reopening the case no more retrials goodbye oh my gosh that you you told it well christine but wow i just am not happy that you had to tell it at all my god when there was a break in the page and it was like and she wrote a book but then for a second i was like whoo that would be clear i'm so sorry yikes well i hope she's doing well sounds like she's doing well having a little covid quarantine baby i know i should look at that look at look it up see if um see when babies do yes same due date as you maybe oh well um yikes do we have an update on your baby

yet oh yeah i did have a fun one today i found out that the baby's the size this is actually early this is for one we're recording this week but they size of a Foreman grill, a George Foreman grill. Oh, my gosh. Michael Scott could burn his foot on your baby. Oh, my God. You're right. Wow. That's pretty big, huh? And according to What to Expect app, the baby is the size of Winnie the Pooh's jar of honey. Which is funny because Christopher Robinson.

Christopher Robinson, which is also funny because I just bought a bunch of Winnie the Pooh prints for the nursery. Fun. Fun stuff. Is Winnie the Pooh your baby theme I love Winnie the Pooh it's one of the I don't really have a theme but it's definitely like a one of the elements like I feel like we talked about this recently I had a crush on rabbit yeah yes oh my god I love Winnie the Pooh so much I got some really great little prints from Etsy. Oh, and then the other one, according to you, is a Doc Martens boot. Oh, well, I remember you and your vegan Doc Martens very well. I was walking around in those neon pink Doc Martens. There's nothing Christine liked more when we were on tour than wearing those Doc Martens. And every time someone pointed at them, she'd go, they're vegan!

They're vegan! Magenta and they're vegan they're vegan magenta and they're vegan wow good times well so your baby has fashion and also can sizzle some bacon very well what a stunner well all right i guess i'm gonna go back to los angeles now yeah have a good weekend and that's why we drink