And That's Why We Drink - E244 A Demonic Cricut Cutter and Mercury's Mindflight

Episode Date: October 10, 2021

It's here! The reunion episode we alluded to on Instagram! We're back together in person for episode 244 to try to make Christine's water break through surprise cryptid baby showers. We may or may not have disturbed every ghost in Christine's home so buckle in for this wild ride. This week Em relives their Denver ghost tour to tell the story of the Peabody-Whitehead Mansion. Then Christine goes to an appointment with her midwife and comes back, still pregnant, to tell us the story of Michael and Suzan Carons aka the Witch Killers. Christine also accidentally gendered the baby on air, so good thing she's already given birth! Check the 'gram for more pics and deets... and that's why we drink! Also, check out Flying Pig Tours in Cincinnati and Denver Terrors ghost tours! 

all right um m where are you weird i don't see m anybody there surprise i am here and so is eva and uh hanging out with Krampus and Gio. In the corner. If you are on audio, you don't know what the fuck we're talking about. But Em just leaned into the Zoom frame. I just leaned. And I'm breaking everything. Listen, it was complicated to try and figure out how to squeeze Em into my little recording corner.

So that's my bad. Okay, so up until, by the way, I look so much taller than you. I know, it's because I'm in my fainting couch. Yeah right. You can finally see me in the fainting couch. So for anyone who is like me which is probably a hot zero people but I thought that there was a massive table here this whole time with like a monitor you were

working with. I had no idea it was just empty space. It's a literal music stand from Amazon that I put my laptop on. Had no clue. So anyway I was thinking like how are we going to rearrange her whole office so we can record together? Oh, you just got a lounge. You just got a lounge. Yes, Eva and I so I was recently in Denver for a wedding

with Allison's family and then Eva had the wonderful idea before I left of like what if while you're in Denver I also go to Denver and see some of my friends from there and then we fly together to Cincinnati and surprise Christine and have a little spooky baby shower. Keyword surprise. I literally went home to my house.

And Blaze was like, can you let Gio in upstairs? He's on the balcony. And I was like, why is this door closed to my upstairs TV room? And I opened it up. I think I screamed so loud. I was scared. I disturbed every ghost in my home. All the Victorian ghosts have woken up. I screamed so loud. I actually? I was scared. I disturbed every ghost in my home. All the Victorian ghosts have woken up.

I screamed so loud. I actually am amazed my water didn't break. So Eva and I, our goal was to make the water break. It didn't work. We wanted to be part of history. You didn't try hard enough. But no, and also shout out to Blaze and Zandy because we've been in a group chat with them for a while now trying to plan this.

I am really impressed that like, I didn't even have have an ink like not even like something's off. Nothing. Not even a clue. I well I got really paranoid once we hit like 20 minutes before you were going to get home. And I was like oh well she's for sure knows because as we all know Christine is has a few loose screws. And she definitely for no reason will check like find my friends or her nest cameras. I'm occasionally like weirdly paranoid for no reason. And it like foils people's plans.

And anytime we've ever tried to surprise her before, if we're oddly quiet on text that day, she'll be like, I thought something was up because we didn't talk all day. This one you really got me. We did decoy texts and everything. No, you did decoy texts. Blaze logged me out of the ring doorbell because I would have been like, oh, did I get any packages today? And I would have been like, well, Em's big, big dumb face is in my doorbell. What is going on? So logged me out of the ring doorbell because I would have been like oh did I get any packages today and I would have been like well M's big big dumb face is in my doorbell what is going on so logged me out of the doorbell like fully fully all the stops were pulled the problem was all I almost created not surprisingly oh wow Christine almost really completely wrecked the whole fucking plan so

let me start from my perspective first it's probably better from your perspective because I was going la-di-da through my life eva's literally at the airport about to get on her flight to denver and to meet you to meet me and then we're gonna fly the next day to cincinnati oh for god's sake and uh blaze texts the group chad and he's like so slight problem um christine might be getting induced tonight because we're going to the hospital and the baby might be here before you get here and eva and eva texts me and she's like um what do we do no no she said oh what did we do what do we do and i was like i guess this is like perfect timing like that the baby would be here as we're also arriving yeah honestly the whole family's gonna be together if i found out later

that you guys canceled a trip i would have i would have had a mental breakdown so i'm really glad that you would have at least still shown up i don't know what we would have done the whole time. We would have just had a time together in Ohio and Kentucky, I guess. You would have been babysitting or something. I don't know what you would have been doing. Luckily that did not happen. But what, so what was the story? Oh, right. Basically I was, uh, I was doing my fun little paranoid thing one night as I do. And I was like, please, can you check my blood pressure? And he was like, why? And I was like, I don't know, just for fun, which is like, this night as I do and I was like Blaze can you check my blood pressure and he was like why and I was like I don't know just for fun which is like this is what I do for fun most Christine fun I know I know I know I know and Blaze obviously has a blood pressure cuff from

the hospital so he's like sure and then he checks it about four times and his face is kind of screwing up a little bit and I'm like what and he's like it's really high and I was like that's strange because I usually have really really low blood pressure so I was like well okay he's like it's really high and I was like that's strange because I usually have really really low blood pressure so I was like well okay it's like it was like two in the morning so I was like let's go to bed we'll check it in the morning next morning it's even higher and he's like we need to call the doctor so of course I go in to the midwife and she's like yeah it's it's really high this is not normal and blah blah I have headaches so you know if you know anything about preeclampsia it's very dangerous so they don't mess around with blood pressure. So they're like,

well, and so she was like, you should just go home and keep an eye on it. And then I heard my doctor in the hallway go like, no, she has to go to the hospital. And I was like, ah, so they shipped me to the hospital and I'm like, I might have a baby today. And they're like, we'll induce you if it doesn't go down. Um, and lo and behold, I get to the hospital check-in and they're like, oh, it seems pretty normal to me. And I'm like, this hospital bill is going to piss me off in a few weeks when it shows up at my door. As Blaze was texting us updates of like, oh no, like we're back home, everything's fine. Then you text him and you're like, I've had a day, Em. And I was like, you've had a day? Like I was wondering what the hell we were going to do on our plane.

And I was like, no way. I know. I was like, why did you tell me? Also, please look at Eva and the cat. Okay. My cat is like, I remember how I announced that my cat was being really weird around me.

Turns out it's not just me. Cause Juniper is climbing on Eva's lap. And he, again, he is not, I'm just convinced that it must be like his LA memories because M and Eva showed up and he's suddenly like up in everyone's business. And he is not a cuddly cat. Speaking of, uh, old LA memories because M and Eva showed up and he's suddenly like up in everyone's business. And he is not a cuddly cat.

Speaking of, uh, old LA memories, Gio, I think I gave abandonment issues too, because he really avoided me for the first day. Yeah. He was like,

not sure what to do with himself. He was like really unsettled about the whole thing. I was like, cause I knew we were surprising Christine and Christine would be mad if she missed Gio and I reunited. So I told blaze, like, can you film this? So Christine can see it if she missed Gio and I reunited. So I told blaze, like, can you film this?

So Christine can see it later. And Gio was like much more excited about Eva. And I feel like Gio was like, yeah, I fucking know you. We know what his, what I should have known all along that Scorpio blood was right. And where his head is.

Yeah. Um, so that's the update here. I actually, we're literally recording this, uh, before my next appointment. So we'll see if my blood pressure is high again. Cause they actually, I didn't tell you this,

but last week they said, um, Oh yeah, we're looking at your chart and your blood pressure like spiked last week and now it's higher. And they're like, so if it's higher next week, then like, we've got a problem. So we're going to get that checked today. Even I are so desperately hoping that your water breaks while we're here. I think. Or you're induced to work here. I think that would be so fun. I mean, it wouldn't be fun. I mean, you won't have fun. For you. Eva and I will have a blast.

We'll be at CVS eating candy or something. Well, I don't know. I like that that's my definition of fun. Blaze actually offered Em to get the plus one position. Plus one to the doctor. So we'll see. It was very kind. I was like, I don't know about that cervical check.

And Em's like, I know all about cervical checks from TikTok. And I'm like, what is going on? I have been learning way too much about your cervix. You know more than I do. About my cervix. I've seen it at 10 centimeters. And I'm like, hmm. I certainly have not.

Don't look until after the baby's here. No, you're completely right. You're going to have a good time. You'll be fine. Also, I have been being that person who keeps touching Christine's belly. No, but I like it because nobody has COVID and nobody else does. Cause like blaze is just like, I've always heard like,

Oh, like pregnant moms hate their belly being touched by people without their consent, which makes sense by the way. It's funny. Cause I'm just, it's never just does it anyway. I just,

well, you have my full consent. If it were a stranger, I wouldn't go up and touch their belly, but I'm like desperate. Like I spent what she's moving. I want to see. Oh shit. I just said the gender. Oh, well oh well um i feel like by the time this comes out the baby will be here oh by the way

was that her yeah did you feel it that's how i expected a little alien that's how i expected to react it's like a little alien it is like an alien it feels like alien oh well surprise the sex also if the baby isn't here by the time this episode comes out, like, you really need to get induced. It's like a month and a half later. What if I tell the doctor, like, oh, yeah, then we're screwed. What if I tell the doctor, like, I accidentally gendered the baby on air. I need this baby out now before the episode releases. Excuse me.

Chop, chop. Do you mind? It's extremely important. Yeah. Everybody on Twitter today is telling me oh your baby's sideways here's what to do and i'm like little do you know it's gonna come out of me in like five minutes yeah you're all the baby is already the size of a 42 week yeah yeah the midwife was like um wow this is a big baby and i was like since when and then i was like i guess

i haven't been measured in like six weeks she's like yeah it's measuring 42 weeks and i'm like that doesn't sound good for me and my body but i guess we'll find out anyway i did have my first conversation with the baby yesterday it was really great i bent down and i got real close to christine's belly and i went your mother's gonna embarrass the shit out of you for the rest of your life or i said something along no you said she's so embarrassed you said i embarrass you all the time yeah she embarrasses me i was kind of just warning the baby that like it's gonna happen to you too so get ready there's a junior here's the cat all right so anyway um we might as well get this show on the road because the baby might be outside of your belly by the end of this by tonight can you pass me my my panera coffee that oh by the way we went mini golfing yesterday and i had to pick up every mini golf ball that

went in the hole okay i was very grateful i kept trying to bend down and I was like, please stop, you're going to injure yourself, which is not wrong. To a surprise to nobody, I learned, but really was affirmed, that Christine does way too much as a pregnant woman. I watched her sprint upstairs. For what? Because Gio was on the balcony, he didn't want to be anymore. That means nothing to me.

I would have been like, I'm pregnant, You can stay outside for the rest of the time. Until someone else gets home or volunteers. Oh, I also booked us a really fun tour. I just want to do a little shout out to our tour. We did a ghost tour yesterday. We did. A Cincinnati ghost tour. And it was really fun.

And our tour guide, Mike, was really, really nice. And at the end, I was like, of course, I was like, we're podcasters. And he listened to the show. And he was like, I know that show. And my wife knows your show. And he's like, I've seen you in the Cincinnati Magazine. And I was like, we're podcasters. And he listened to the show. He was like, I know that show, and my wife knows your show. And he's like, I've seen you in the Cincinnati Magazine. And I was like, wow. Very sweet. That's a local.

Do you want to shout out their company? Yeah. I don't want to give the wrong one. That would suck. But also, it sounds like he used to have a ghost tour company when he lived somewhere else. And he's new to Cincinnati. He lived in Charleston. So I heard he was in Charleston.

I was like, that's a haunted-ass city. He probably has some ghosty experience so he it sounds like he's trying to uh revamp his company for a new city so it's really cool still new but it was a great great tour and we got to the actual ghost hunting at the end too yes they gave us like k2 meters and he's like do you know how these work and i was like em and i are experts i was probably really obnoxious it was called buried secrets and it was. It was called Buried Secrets and it was by Flying Pig Tours. There you go. And it was super fun.

It was super fun and very creepy. I learned about an asylum that I didn't know existed in Cincinnati. And like we were literally in the park and he's like where I go all the time with Gio and he was like, there's a bunch of bodies down there. And I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Yep.

So anyway, so shout out to Mike and his lovely wife whose name i did not get um and check that tour out if you're in town um speaking of tours i want to tell you that my story comes from the fact that i did a separate ghost tour only like three days earlier when i was in denver oh yeah yeah yeah um so i I was in Denver for like four days with Allison's family and then they left and I decided to stay for two days. And doesn't have a home anymore. I'm just traveling.

I fucking float around now. She's a jet setter. But yeah, I wanted to do my own exploration. As much as Allison's family is like super fun to hang out with and their interests are different than mine. So when it comes to like planning a trip, it was just not things that I would have done. It was like mini golf and ghosts is only the things that I wanted to do.

Yeah, if it's not a roadside attraction, I wouldn't do it for myself. And so they were picking a bunch of like hiking experiences, which SOS, you know how that feels to me and my legs. But so like we had a great time, but it just wasn't the stuff I wanted to do if I went to Denver. So I stayed two days and did all this other crazy stuff. And one of them was a ghost tour. And also Eva showed up at some point too. And then Eva was like, eek, I'm coming. I invited Eva on the tour, by the way.

And Eva turned it down for tacos, which I understand. I don't know. I do. When I heard tacos, I was like, oh, nevermind. That makes sense. The ghost tour, it was, I was not expecting it to be two hours long and a two mile walk. So that was interesting, but it was very fun. And I want to say, if you have to go to a ghost tour ever, this one was so good. Like specifically go to Denver one and then

go. And the tour was called Denver terrors and the guide, her name was Sheila. And she was the best. Sheila did say like, if you could write me a review, that would be great. And I was like, Sheila, I've got a podcast. Everyone's step aside. Everyone's going to know your name. So this is the opposite of Beach to Sandy where instead of one star reviews, I'm giving Sheila like 10 out of one star reviews. We love a good redemption is what we love. Sheila, it was a gem. And also I felt like she was an alternate reality version of me because how I was like a ghost hunter and a birthday clown. She is actually a funeral director and Santa Claus's wife, Mrs. Claus for Christmas.

No. And I was like, Oh, so you've, it just is never boring for you. And like, you get the vibe, you get the M vibe.

And she was very funny. She had lots of really good little one liners and all that. At one point she, Oh, we were walking down the street. I'm ruining one of your jokes. I'm butchering one of your jokes, Sheila.

Sorry. But, um, she really tickled me. We were walking'm ruining one of your jokes I'm butchering one of your jokes Sheila sorry but um she it really tickled me we were walking down like one of the I guess more like boring streets in between two haunted locations and so I guess just to like make conversation there was a laundromat down the street and so we stopped at the laundromat she went this one's really creepy this laundromat apparently is super haunted because socks always go missing. Oh my God. And I was like, Sheila, that is what got you your tip,

my friend. So anyway, anyway, um, please go get Sheila from Denver terrors. It was, she was a prize. Um,

so she's a few, what was she? A funeral? She's an assistant funeral director and she is Mrs. Claus during my head. I put, I put like clown and funeral director together and I was like, Oh,

for hire, like you can hire her for a party. i guess for a tour go to denver terrors and get sheila also maybe around december call sheila she said this year for christmas they did zoom christmas meetings with kids and she was like it was so perfect because we could just say we were in the north pole and i was like that's such a brilliant idea brilliant nobody's close enough to pull on your beard if you're santa, that's smart. That's smart. Anyway. Uh, so that's how I found out about this story. Um, also we,

it was one of the last places that she showed us and it was one of the scarier places she showed us. So this is the story of the Peabody Whitehead mansion in Denver, Colorado. A whitehead. I know I had to get through that too. I definitely thought about whiteheads the whole time. Em loves a good pimple bopper video. I love you know what I just I just graduated in my friendship

with uh our other friend named Christine uh-huh oh that's right yes you did I I well I just graduated into another front uh no new level we unlocked a new level because she had a blackhead that she really needed me to get and I and I was like actually she called me from a from my home was like can you come over I was so happy to get. And I was like, actually, she called me from a, from my home. I was like, can you come over? I was so happy. And literally texted me. I was like, I actually am busy. I'm going to pop someone's blackhead.

And I was like, who's? And you were like Christine's. And I was like, no. And then you were like the other Christine. I was like, thank God. Okay. There's nothing I love more than a blackhead. Oh, it makes me so happy.

You know all about my cervix apparently and Christine's blackheads. Look, there's honestly, I would be prepared to witness your baby's birth. I've seen it all at this point. I'm ready. If it weren't COVID, we could get some more plus ones in here. I know. I need it for the gram. No, you don't.

You really don't. Okay, the Peabody Whitehead Mansion. So I'm going to throw a trigger warning out now because I will be saying the R r word and i will start right now i mean i'm always saying that word so whether i guess if you only listen to m's half then it makes yeah i very rarely say it and also um i did see i know i mentioned this in a couple episodes ago but i have seen that there is some contention between whether or not the word rape should be inserted into the general discussion of sexual assault or if it should be separate because you don't want to like water down how bad yeah yeah

so i'm going to say the word rape just because um i saw that there were a lot of people who didn't like that we were diluting it by saying oh i don't dilute it but i guess so there i i never know the right thing to do what do you usually say i usually said essay like sexual assault. Oh, I don't delude it, but I guess maybe. I never know the right thing to do. What do you usually say? I usually say essay like sexual assault. Right, right, right. But apparently that was making it not like really allowing it to know how bad it is. Detracting from the, yeah. So trigger warning, I will be saying the R word.

And if that's not your thing. Me too, by the way, while we're at it. So Peabody Whitehead Mansion. So it's one of Colorado's most haunted houses it is on what used to be called Millionaire's Row because it's the prettiest houses just all lined up it was uh it's 6,600 square feet and at the time of its construction it cost $15,000 which now let me see how much that was not Millionaire row well maybe yeah back then what was a million dollars then that would be a i don't know so whether where's west egg yeah i trust west egg sponsor me west

egg um i was at a fellation calculator yeah so fifteen thousand dollars in 1889 oh shit okay so no wonder it's a millionaire's row so at the time it would now be 43 million dollars wait what what oh i put i put the wrong i put an extra zero i was like what in the world i was like something doesn't feel right okay here we go okay it would have been 483 so not even half a million dollars yeah losers they were at the They were at the end of Millionaire Row. They got like a corner. They were at the dead end. Not even a corner lot.

They got like the back lot. Yeah. It allegedly has about a dozen spirits. Fun fact. Okay. So the building was built in 1889 by architect Frank Edbrook, who also built the two other buildings that were on the tour called the Brown Palace and the Oxford Hotel.

And they are both also haunted. Okay. Fun fact. Wow. This guy has a streak. He is. Can you imagine if that's your job as the architect? You're the spooky one.

It's like, whatever I do in this house, it's going to be covered in ghosts. That's great, actually. So the home was built for Dr. William Reddick Whitehead. Hence, what a poor last name love that for him i wish he had a friend named blackhead and they could they could just be like visits together that would have been the new tlc show that would have been fun yeah dr pimple popper would have like been their next door neighbor yeah um so dr william reddick or riddick whitehead he was born in 1831 in suffolk virginia which is right next to where i went to college um he studied medicine moved to paris and then vienna and then he became an army soldier during the crimean war um and then he moved back to the u.s where he became an army surgeon again for the

civil war okay for the confederates yikes okay um so he was also at different times just to give you an idea of like his um reputation in the medical world um he was president of the denver medical association he was on the he was part of the colorado state medical society he helped found denver college's school of medicine um and that's just some of them he had like six or seven titles that make him like a very well-known esteemed doctor okay um but during his time as a battle surgeon even though he was a really good surgeon with a great reputation just because of the times and the intensity of the injuries like 90 of the people he worked on ended up dying anyway that's that's not a great track record bud bud. Including Stonewall Jackson himself. Ooh.

You would hope he'd be in the 10%, but ooh. So including Stonewall Jackson, who died two weeks after surgery from Dr. Whitehead. Oh, no. And also many even during the Crimean War, which was one of the deadliest wars of the time because not only was the medical treatment so bad, but there was also cholera going on at the same time. So it was other factors that caused all of these random deaths. It's not like he was so bad at there was also cholera going on at the same time so it was like it was other factors that caused all of these random deaths it's not like he was so bad at his job at least we're letting him off the hook in that way that's good it was like well how much can you really help after cholera yeah you know it's rough times so he was considered super successful despite um a mass majority of his

patients dying under his care um but after the wars, he retired and he moved to Denver with his wife. I think his wife was sick or something, and that's why they moved. Oh, no. I think maybe with consumption, and they had to go be somewhere where the air was cleaner. Oh. Something like that. Send them to the mountains. Yep.

Oh, wait. I guess they were. Oh, is that where they ended up? Got it. Okay. Makes sense. And so, because he was originally in New York, I think, for the Civil War. Oh think oh got you got you um so after the wars he retired and moved to denver with his wife they quickly became socialites and he was elected to like city council and was on the board of

health so he just kept climbing that ladder gotcha um and like i said the house was built in finnish in 1889 which is when he moved in and he stayed in that house until he died in 1902 which was only what 13 years that sounds right yep and while he was there they already had poltergeist activity in the house oh no that's like immediately so um items would move there'd be noises all over the house there'd be banging one website gave the very vague description of extreme disturbances. So there's that. Extreme disturbances. It sounds like an extreme disturbance.

And the spirits, they were wondering where the spirits were coming from because it was a brand new house on brand new, like, well, not brand new land. I'm sure it was. Brand new. Nobody's ever been there before. Brand new for white people. Brand new. Nobody's ever been there before. Brand new for white people. Yeah.

And so the rumor is that they had poltergeist activity because, at least according to Dr. Whitehead, he thinks that the soldiers that he didn't save during his surgeries followed him home after war. I'm not going to lie. This sounds a lot like Winchester. Like all the victims are still following you. Victims under your hand or by your brand or something. are like still following you like victims under your hand yeah by your brand or something so he thinks that a lot of the activity was because he was the one that in his mind he said he felt probably felt guilty for quote killing them or not saving them and therefore killing them um and what's interesting is after dr whitehead died and the house changed owners the activity

did die down so oh that is weird so it was attached to him seemingly that's what it how the story goes that it kind of confirms that they were attached to him that would be rough if you were like a 90 failure rate okay failure rate is extreme wording but you know like 90 of your patients died like they said yeah it certainly didn't thrive after the surgery i mean that's you've got to live with that, I guess. So one person who did die in the house, her name was either Eloise or Ella. And the main story is that she was an employee of Dr. Whitehead's, and they got really close, and he thought of her as a daughter

and took her in. Some people say that she was just a random woman that she was getting married. And the main story is that he offered his house to her as the venue for free. Oh, that's nice. But I heard other versions of the story where she was just a random person renting out the space as a wedding venue. But either way, she was like using it for a wedding. Yeah. But the main story goes that they knew each other and they were friends.

Okay. And I guess like Cal's surprise, she was a j jilted bride the husband didn't show up at the wedding and so now you can see a woman in white go fucking figure oh my god our tour guide yesterday had a really great theory which i really liked i liked it a lot i thought that was really interesting he said um he's because i joked he said something about a girl in white and i was like oh my god m there's another girl in white there's always a woman in white or a woman in red. And he said, or black or whatever. And he said, oh, well, I've always thought like, maybe that's just how I can't perceive the color of it.

Or they appear as like a gray scale or black and white. And that's why we see it as white. And I was like, fascinating. Or maybe there was like, when they thought of themselves as photographs or memories, they found themselves in gray scale because they didn't see color portraits. Black and white photos.

Maybe they thought they could project the best version they knew how. But yeah, so jilted bride. And apparently she ended up dying by suicide in the basement. She hanged herself on some of the pipes in the basement. Terrible. And so that's the only immediate death connected to him i think he might have died in the house dr whitehead but other than him um the only deaths up until now is ella that's a pretty traumatic one though pretty traumatic

especially if they were friends too that's true too yeah um so in 1902, this is when Dr. Whitehead died and it, the house was then taken over by Governor James H. Peabody. Okay. Who moved in and rented the home for two years because he was the governor, but there wasn't an official governor's mansion in Colorado at the time. Okay. Um, so he, I think just picked that house. He was like, this is mine now.

That's a nice one. That's vacant. Okay. So he, I think, just picked that house. He was like, that's mine now. That's a nice one that's vacant. Okay. Fun fact, Governor Peabody was one of the most hated governors at that point in U.S. history. Why is he such a fun name? He will also hate him because he was against labor unions for minors and he ended up being a... That's so specifically bad. Not just against anti-union, but anti-child union no my minors

oh my god i was like wait wait that's really extreme okay okay like coal miners that makes sense wrap it up everybody wrap up the laughter i get it for true crime i understand you would think minors like children geez okay all okay. He really hated child labor laws. That's why I was like, damn, what an extra asshole. At least let the children take some time off work. No, okay. He was against labor unions for coal miners. Okay, got you.

Sorry, that was totally my bad. I should have known. No, I just took that into a whole fun direction for myself. All right. Someone's got a baby on the brain. I'm just saying. So he ended up becoming a big part of what is now known as the Ludlow Massacre, which is at least a little better now knowing children aren't involved.

Yeah, I'm pleased about that. Thank you for correcting me. So in 1914, I think it was, there were 1,200 coal miners who were on strike with their families in Ludlow, Colorado. And basically people who owned the mines didn't want to hire union workers. They would have preferred to hire non-union workers because it would have been cheaper. So to keep these owners from hiring outside of the city and finding non-union laborers, the miners that were in unions decided that they were going to barricade the rail lines so that nobody could come into town and take their jobs.

Okay. All right. No scabs allowed. So Peabody was somehow involved in this as well as one of the coal and iron companies. They collectively, I think, hired like a thousand militia men and the National Guard came out to arrest people and attack these coal miners that were in the mountains. And basically like at least 13 men, women, children were killed because the miners were out there was minors and minors, minors and minors, minors with their families. So bad, bad, bad. So he basically like it was like he declared martial law basically and sent out militia on his own townspeople and anyway labor unions ended up losing anyway and non-union miners got hired so it didn't even work out so some of the miners wanted revenge fun fact and tried to blow up his house but they apparently only blew up his porch, which sounds like not a great minor to me,

by the way, they're supposed to know how to like blast dynamite into rocks. And they only got like three feet in front of them. But anyway, that was only one of two assassination attempts on Peabody. Okay. So, but he tried to get killed twice.

Like there, he tried to get killed. People tried to kill him twice. So that he's not a great guy. It a good look yeah um so others suggest that the spirits in this house actually are from when governor peabody was there okay um some say that the reason for the continual paranormal activity is because of his intense negative energy still carrying over but also because so it could either be whitehead's patients from the war it could be the just negative energy still carrying over, but also because, so it could either be white heads patients from the war. It could be the just negative energy or the people that Peabody was involved

in, in killing. Right. Um, it could also be because Peabody hated, uh, like labor unions so much that this becomes a weird theory, but roll with it for now that after um

he ended up leaving it became a bunch of things but eventually becomes restaurants oh and one of the theories you'll understand why if you're confused at all just give me a second and i'll explain it later but they think that anytime there were employees in the building governor peabody would hate it because they might have been part of a labor union in some way um i will get more into that in a second and you'll totally understand what i'm talking about so um by the 19 the mid 1900s so between the 50s and 70s the building was re-bought and turned into apartments and then it became roughly 10 ish bars and restaurants over time okay um i had a list of all the names of them but i i some of them were they seemed tough to pronounce i just didn't even want to risk it so just say let's say

about 10 restaurants and bars okay one of them though uh opened halloween 1983 and it was literally called spirits fun fun love it love it love a good double entendre love it also fun fact in fredericksburg spirits is deirdre's favorite bar really yeah it's a great name for a bar i'm not gonna lie it's a great one um it's also like a very old building where the floor has not been like fixed since the like 1800s so when you stand up there you can feel the floor like moving with you and your three flights up and you're just like at any moment we're all you are full of just fun time it's deirdre as a building yeah yeah i feel like i can just i can see it now so it's just a race it's a lot of fun but you get a little scared sometimes just just like fun with deirdre always a roller coaster so

um yeah so there's a bar and it closed in less than a year um which most of these establishments did um and They have said anytime establishments have closed out of this building, it was because of the ghosts and because of the activity. So they're not even hiding it. So during all these renovations, the old poltergeist activity came back because it's switching at least every

year into a different restaurant. Or even when it was an office space, it was being renovated too. But silverware and kitchen tools like pots and pans, furniture would all get thrown into walls or across the room. Dishes would break. Apparently glasses would break. Even just like sitting on the bar, they would just shatter out of nowhere. Trays would move.

I mean, apparently there was old servants bells that weren't even connected to anything anymore. But people would hear them ringing. That is scary. I don't like that. It's like residual sounds. Yeah. And there was one that we heard on the tour where one of the restaurant managers said that one of the chandeliers, like all of it was glowing except for one light bulb. And it always flickered.

Yeah. And so they were like, you have to fix the chandelier. It's always flickering. And when he it had been flickering for a lot like weeks. Yeah. And so they were like, you have to fix the chandelier. It's always flickering. And when he, it had been flickering for a lot, like weeks. Yeah. And the electrician finally comes in and was like, this chandelier has never been connected to anything. So for it to have been lit at all. Ew.

Yeah. Ew. Ew. It's yucky. I don't like that. My personal favorite is when it was spirits. Yeah. My personal favorite is when it was spirits.

Yeah. One of the cooks in the back says that a whole bottle of beer somehow spilled all down his back, even though nobody was down in the kitchen with him. So uncomfortable. But it was because he said something homophobic. Oh, well, there you go. So why would you even admit that, by the way? Yeah. Asshole.

I don't know. But I saw that on a few websites. So it's apparently a apparently a well known source in which case like thank you to the whatever ally ghost that was maybe the chef was watching and was like he deserved that yeah i tell you he's like you know what i hope you i hope that happened so wow um also during these renovations this is where the r word comes in um during these renovations i think when it was switching from one restaurant to another in the seventies, um, either two strange men or what I saw from one source is two of the

construction workers from the renovation, um, saw a girl walking home past the building and they grabbed her and she was raped in the alley and they killed her and she was buried in the basement of the house. Oh no. Mid renovation. Oh, no. Mid-renovation. Oh, no.

So while the house has, and we're going to get back to that. Not to give you such a strong sentence and then leave you hanging, but we will get back to that in a second. So while the house has been different office spaces, people have still witnessed activity, including books that fall off their own shelves. Apparently there's, this is a very specific one. I'm just going to quote it. Numbers appearing by themselves on a calculator in a locked office. It said 8-0-0-8-5. It said boobs.

And then papers will move themselves. Furniture will move. People hear a baby crying. People have seen different apparitions in there standing in different windows. Books are moving again. People have seen or they've felt getting pushed against walls. People will often get sick really quickly or faint or feel really ill in some way and need to leave. And the second they leave, they feel fine.

Oh, that's good at least. But in some way, they have like a panic attack or feel really drained with their energy right um on the first floor of the women's bathroom there is apparently an apparition of an older man who smells really strongly of um tobacco i think cherry tobacco um and people have seen him smoking a pipe okay in the second floor men's bathroom ella Ella has apparently been seen in the mirrors. Oh, no. Yeah. Sorry.

Love you, girl. But like, no mirror stuff, please, for me. I'm not into that. Apparently, she just generally haunts the second floor. But one of the stories I heard is that she gets jealous of the waitresses getting hit on by men. Or she's protecting the waitresses getting hit on by men, or she's protecting the waitresses getting hit on by men. Yeah, that's quite a different angle. The way that it was phrased is that she was jealous,

but for all we know, she was trying to be protective. Yeah. And literally a table that the guy was sitting at flew up a foot off the ground while he was still sitting there. So the whole table, you're at Ruby Tuesdays, and thes and the table just goes and you're just oh and it fell back down and it fell back down like you got thrown like she was like almost like trying to knock him away or something love that um apparently wine bottles will shatter um you need the usual restaurant stuff things get moved that make employees miserable yeah yeah imagine having to go

tell your manager like the tables are flying everywhere i don't know can i just go home please and so in the basement there's also i didn't mention this death earlier but there's another person who apparently hanged themselves in the basement and it was a woman who worked there after closing hours and she went down and did it with her own apron. And what? That's really fucked up. That's horrible. So I'm sure there's activity in the basement there too. Well, this basement is fucking terrible. Yeah, two deaths down there and a body's been buried down there.

Yeah, so. Today the house is vacant and has been in the middle of renovations for five years and it is in the middle of being turned into apartments including the basements. Good into apartments including the basements good luck including the basements including the basement i said this on the tour i was like imagine being like like you're in your apartment you're like like overhearing through the window

a ghost tour and you hear that someone was buried in your basement in your room in your apartment so um yeah it's turning into apartments now and you're like someone hanged themselves from that rafter and you're like where my where my my my portrait of my dog hangs right like what you would put on a fucking wall but like wow well anytime like maybe if it's like the ceiling like maybe like the lights move or something like the like a hanging i don't know but if anything happened in that house, it was what happened last night. What was he saying on that tour about? Yeah, there was about an apartment building.

And he said there was one time they went through and there was a woman on the fire escape kind of watching the tour and having a cigarette or a drink or something. And she like kind of her her eyes are getting wider because he was just someone was murdered in her room. This horrible murder that occurred. And she's sitting outside her apartment like, wait, what? And I guess the people. He moved out the next day or something. Yeah, the people who lived there, I guess, have always had weird stuff happen. And so the next week they did the same tour on the same day of the week.

And the apartment was, they looked up and it was completely vacant. And they were like, and I thought it was a good point that like, it probably wasn't just the first time she'd ever heard anything weird. She probably had some shit going on. She was probably like, oh, that's why the floor creaks every night and that's why this my pic he was talking about how pictures get like oh the pictures on the walls that was rough apparently there was one guy who lived there before her came home one day and all the chairs were stacked on each other like a poltergeist and all the he went on like a two-day retreat and came home and yeah and all the portraits on the walls had been turned the other way.

They were still hanging, but they were facing the wall, which I was like, that's, that's, that's absolutely. The story behind it is horrific. Like it's like a nun who worked with the school district.

Stalked by a guy who got killed by like an unstable person down the hall with a gun. Who also held people at hostage like on live tv or something yeah he looked at the articles i was like how do i not know this shit you need to cover that i should cover that that was a wild one um but yeah so now the house is vacant i can tell you with my own eyes it is certainly not going to be open anytime soon it was like fancy i love when they're always like i took a picture for you oh sweet because i love when they're really upscale and you're like, someone's going to spend

so much money to be miserable in that place. I was thinking, though, like maybe it's like, oh, I guess in Colorado it's the same thing where you don't have to mention if someone died. Yeah. Apparently you don't have to. Because I was going to say, like, think about the deal you could at least score if like you live in the most haunted section of the house. I don't know.

Yeah. But I guess if other people don't believe it or don't care, there always someone else will take it um here where was it yeah i learned in cincinnati you don't need you're in ohio you don't need to declare that to people fun fact yeah it's super dark it was just because it was night out but it's a massive house creepier looking than i expected everything is so pointy everything in colorado had like gabled i mean really really pointy really like that if you fell on the exact center of the roof you would get you like stabbed all the way in half yeah you would literally get sliced like you could tell like oh just looking at the picture i'm afraid to touch it because i'm afraid i'll get sliced pointy it's very sharp that's a creepy looking building and it's like got all these gates

around it's still like very much in the middle of being built. Wow. Well, good luck to whoever lives there. So here's my, here's the thing that really freaked me out about this story on the ghost tour because I was like, okay, like it's a haunted house and like, yeah, someone died there or two people died there and someone was buried there. Super creepy. And she ended up taking us across the way, which let me get my phone out again. So here's one

building that i'm about to talk about it's called the dan sheedy house okay and again it's like super dark so you can't see anything right now but so it's a it's one of those houses where it's not just a flat front it's kind of angled out so like there's like windows that are kind of diagonally facing out if that makes sense it's not a window sort of like bay windows yeah so here's a bay window on the front of the dan sheedy house which is across from the peabody whitehead so going across the way you can see the house right oh that's the pointy house that's the point okay got it so it's like across the street yeah it's like catty corner a little bit yeah so um at the sheedy mansion or it's apparently also called the Grant Street Mansion, there are windows by the front door that can see the Peabody Whitehead Mansion.

And apparently that house is also haunted. But the creepiest ghost there is an apparition of a woman in the windows who is staring at you, looking very scared. And her mouth is moving like a mile a minute, like she's trying to say something to you. No, no, no, no, no. And she's pointing at the Peabody Whitehead house. Is she in the house? She's in the sheedy mansion,

like almost like looking out the window to the Peabody house. Oh, and you can see her from outside. Yeah. Oh, no. And she's freaking out and like pointing at the house, and so the story goes that it's a residual haunting of the woman who witnessed the murder. And she was trying to get someone's attention of like help her help her i know i know

what the fuck that one freaks me out like the way that the that the tour guide was talking about it was like that the ghost in that house is absolutely involved in that house. The fact that it's like speaking word, I mean, that's freaky. Apparently like she's trying to desperately get someone to look out the window and see what she's seeing. And also how sad that that's like the lingering memory. Also how powerful is the haunting in house one that it's spread into another house.

And it like continues the loop or whatever. And it's still connected in some way. Horrible. So anyway. Does anybody live in that shitty mansion or is it like a i don't know okay i don't know i didn't that would blow that would really blow in the middle of the night you just hear a woman downstairs freaking out you hear people outside going what the fuck is going on yeah truly truly so um people yeah so people have said they've seen a woman in the windows um and so now i'm going to go back to

the speaking of that murder of the woman i'm going to or i guess maybe she only saw her getting attacked i don't i don't know what she saw but the theory is that she witnessed the woman clearly not consenting to whatever's going on right um so let's get back to that story because one of the first things that sheila said on this tour is that the Peabody Whitehead had an episode of Ghost Adventures. Yes. So I had to go check it out. And you were like, I'm in. I was like, and we're locked and loaded, Sheila.

Sheila, you got me. You got me hook, line, and sinker. And we're in the mainframe with Sheila. So Zach's main storyline in Ghost Adventures was he kind of ignored all the other ghosts, and he mainly wanted to get to the bottom of this, like, not potential murder, very real murder. Right, right. He ignored all the, great. He was like, let's just, his whole storyline was like, we want to figure out what the fuck happened to this girl. And where is she?

And if she was buried in the basement, like, what happened to her? So it starts though with a completely different storyline so when we were in tv together we learned we were both in comedy script writing to be clear in tv class being told we'll never be on tv right to be clear um we our first real class well our second class we took together, but the first one I remember you in, uh, was script writing. Oh yeah. What was his name?

Mr. Lohan or something. It was something like L. Yeah. Start with an L. Lohman. Lohman. Lohman.

That sounds right. I don't know. Wow. Um, I forget. We had to write a modern family spec script together. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Fun. I slept the whole time in class. Uh, can confirm. I sat next to em sleeping the whole time it was the first i think that's why i remember you more because it was the first time i actually sat next to you yeah we sat next to each other and i every time you came in i was like i'm okay

like is this person okay i was reverse cycling like your baby might slept the entire you'd put your backpack on the thing and just like pass out and i was like and then they were like so christine you have to write a script with M. Yeah. Yeah. And also it was like, I was that shitty kid in a group project and Christine probably did all the work. It was, I don't even remember that, but it was like 11am and I was like, wow, M just goes to bed at 11am. I mean, sure do. That's exactly correct. So, um, one thing we learned in script writing was like, uh,

like an a storyline, B storyline, sometimes a C storyline based on how many characters are in the show. And I feel like someone who writes scripts wrote this Ghost Adventures episode because it felt like there was an A plot, B plot, C plot. So an A plot is usually the main storyline. The B is like the secondary characters in that episode having their own storyline. And then sometimes there's a C plot, which is like the tiniest thing, but it gets five minutes of the episode. It gets mentioned again near the end. Yeah.

And so there was this, the C plot was that while he was trying to, while Zach was trying to get research on this house, he ends up going to like the University of Colorado, Denver and talking to a professor, but students recognize him on campus. And they're like, there's this haunted brewery on

campus you have to go so there's like a weird five minutes of this whole show or is dedicated to him like investigating something he didn't even mean to investigate on the show okay um the b plot is that the b plot and the a plot are pretty much they had the same amount of time it feels like um but one of the rumors of this house is that businesses always fail and one of them is because Peabody didn't like employees or worker unions labor unions and so he was in some way like sabotaging them somehow sabotaging them or getting into their psyche and ruining their careers it was a weird storyline to run with, but okay. So basically, Zach was told that any businesses that open here close very quickly.

The waiters are clumsy, for example, or they get scared of the kitchen and don't want to go in there, so they don't get their job done fast enough. And potentially, the ghost of Peabody is bothering the workers because he doesn't want them to succeed. Okay. All right. So the B storyline here. That's their motivation them to succeed. Okay. All right. So the B storyline here. That's their motivation. Got it.

Okay. The foil. The foil is that Zach decides that he's going to do an experiment with the crew where he basically gets five sets of five rounds of Postmates. We did that experiment all the time. We're great at that experiment. He decided that he was going to hire that for one night, a restaurant staff of a waiter and a waitress. Oh my God.

Okay. And he was going to have him, Aaron, and I don't know who else was there. I'll sit in the pitch black and do a ghost investigation while they are being catered to. I love this idea. I'd like to follow up on this and just like sit down and have someone

cater for me. So he hired a waiter and a waitress to serve them in hopes to piss off peabody that there were two workers back at it in the house range angle but okay he also said that for the sake of like the the i don't know what the right word would be but to make sure that there was no contamination or anything the waiter and waitress had no idea that this house was haunted. These people are like, why are we here? I was going to say, okay, but you're a one waiter and one waitress in a massive fucking six plus thousand square foot house. Yep.

In the dark. On like a historical millionaire's row in the pitch fucking black serving Zach Bagans and his crew with cameras pointing at every fucking angle. But they have no idea what's going on. No, they would never guess. They thought this might be like an animal planet special. Like, what do you think they think is going on? I mean, come on.

Christine, the waitress literally says, and I quote, to Zach while she's serving him, is this supposed to be the most haunted location in Denver? And then even the waiter comes up later and says, yeah, this place is supposed to be really haunted. Like, they're not stupid, right? Like, okay, talk about contaminating, like, the innocence of this waiter and waitress. There's no placebo. Yeah, this place is supposed to be really haunted. Like, they're not stupid, right? Like, okay, talk about contaminating, like, the innocence of this waiter and waitress.

There's no placebo. Yeah, this is not working. So in their five rounds of food that they had delivered to them and they were served. Serve me my Taco Bell. In the pitch black. The only thing that happens is that an orb flies into Zach's head and he feels something grab him at the same time.

And then the waiters say that they feel off, which like fucking duh. Yeah, I feel off just hearing about this. If you didn't feel off, like what kind of other restaurants have you been serving at? Yeah, you work for a weird catering company. Interestingly-ish, according to Zach,

at least it was interesting, that the wait staff started really moving slower and they started saying that they were like freaking out and they were getting more scared. But like I'm sure placebo effect of being on ghost hunters also by that point it's like 3 a.m of course you're moving slower fifth meal you're serving these people and uh basically the cameras show that they're quote avoiding the kitchen but maybe like i don't know how tv shows are written maybe they were just like they were about to go home or something i'm

not sure yeah they also did get a female evp saying the word waitress oh so okay all right that's something a storyline the a storyline is that zach is super invested in trying to debunk the story of the abducted girl debunk it or figure out what happened oh um and so what do you do when you need to figure out the story of an abducted girl who was buried in the basement? You bring on a guest star who is a UFC fighter named Brendan Schaub. What? I don't know who wrote this episode, but it was very not. I went from like A to like seven.

Like it didn't even go to a letter. It just went like to a different alphabet. It went from H to hashtag. To like nothing that makes sense. Yeah. So I don't know what deal Brendan Schaub scored to be like a guest star on this episode. When catfish hires a random like MTV.

Well, that makes sense because someone like had a baby or Max's directing an episode, but this was just like Zach wanted to bring on another big, scary, muscly dude to watch him get scared. I don't know. He probably is just a UFC fan and was like,

this is my chance. Maybe, I don't know. Or maybe like the UFC fighter had a really good manager and he was like, I like Zach Bagans. Get me on the show. Well, okay.

He, by the way, was not invited to the five course meal. So, um, so this UFC fighter, they all go into the basement together to investigate the girl's murder. And I will say their spirit box,

they use a spirit box to talk to the ghosts. And it was actually pretty scary. Okay. I would have been scared. The spirit box always freaks me out. It was very weird. And also they were clear. It was clear audio.

Not like the normal garbled shit you have to kind of guess. Like maybe the producers made this seem like it's scary. No, this was like, I would be scared. I would be very scared. So they asked, can you tell us what your name is? And the spirit box said, Pete. Okay. Then someone said, are you a nice guy or a mean guy?

And the spirit box said, watch it. In which case I'd be like, you got it, my friend. And I would call an Uber. Pete, got your message loud and clear. See you never. So then they said, what happened to the girl down here? And the spirit box said she was raped. And very clearly.

It said that sentence? Very clearly. Oh, no. Did they play that on air? Oh, yikes. Yeah. Okay. And so then they asked who raped her.

Yeah. And the spirit box said it was. And then it sounded like the name like wit or wit or skip or like something with that kind of sound. It was one syllable. It was, and then it sounded like the name, like, Wit or Skip or, like, something with that kind of sound. It was one syllable. It was Wit. Yeah. So, I don't totally know the name. I assumed, like, Wit, like Whitney or, I don't know.

Yeah. Did you witness, the next question they asked, did you witness the rape? And the spirit box said it is violent here holy mother i hated it i hated it i hated it also i was watching it alone in a hotel room so i was really freaked out um they said are there bodies are there any bodies buried here and where and so the story that even i was told on the tour is that they buried her in the basement but the i guess the way the building used to be constructed was that part of the basement was underneath what is the alley outside okay yeah so um so technically it's like not in the house because it's kind of jutted

out underground and it would be underneath the street. Okay. So, um, they said, are there any berries bodied here and where? And the spirit box said, where is the, you said any berries body? Sorry. Are there any bodies buried here and where? Right.

And the spirit box said street. Ooh. Um, so Zach starts walking towards the, the wall that leads to the alley. Right. And the spirit box said, found it.

Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. And then they ended up later on that same wall finding a crawl space. So all the Zach, the Zach Adventures, yikes. The Zach crew, the Ghost Adventures crew, they later found a call, not really found it, but they walked up to where they saw a crawl space in the wall. Yeah. Next to the alley. The ghost had found it and the body could have been buried there.

So Zach got a picture and he did find like a weird purple mist in the crawl space. Ew. So as they're walking over to the crawl space or while the rest of the people are walking and following Zach over to the crawl space, the spirit box says the words, he's scared. And they say, who's scared? They say, who's scared? And in a completely different voice, they say, Brendan, the UFC fighter. I forgot who that was.

The UFC guy. And like, they say it's very clearly again. Like it's like it's a little either like a little girl's voice or a female voice going like Brendan. Like who's scared? Duh. Duh. It's Big B. So.

Yuck. And the episode basically ends with them leaving Brendan in the basement alone. Wait what? Really? It's like nothing else happens afterwards. But so that's the story of the Peabody Whitehead Mansion in Denver, Colorado. Oh my god, ew. Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew.

That one gave me some goose cam, though. I will say that Ghost Adventures episode at the end was a little freaky. Yeah, I feel like- The first half of it with the dining experience and the- I just feel like they had to prove why they expensed it, and that's why they kept it on the episode. Yeah. Their business manager was like, are you sure that you are you sure you needed this? Actually.

Yeah. Very important. B plot. Anyway, so there you have it. Nice work. And we're back. Round two. How was your midwife appointment?

Well, I'm still here and I'm still pregnant. So. Wow. We had even I had a good time. I snooped through Christine's things. And I was actually very disappointed. I was so disappointed. Well, okay.

So I did find your journals, but I knew better than to open them. I didn't open them. I do thoroughly appreciate that because I'm sure there's something embarrassing in there. There's no way you have a journal from childhood and there's not something good. There's a lot. And also those are probably not even from childhood. They're probably from like the last three years. So I'm probably in them.

So now actually I wish the statute of limitations is not up on those. Don't check. So I was, um, I, so one of the things I'm learning about Christine's house is that every single room has like very weird, multiple offshoots.

Like Alcove, like this room, you wouldn't know, but on the other side of this wall right here that's also we got smoothies um on this wall there's a room that's like a mass like i don't know what to call because it's too small to be a bedroom but it's way too big to be a closet right way too big it's like uh i don't know what it is i don't know it's you can fit a bed in there because on the other side there's's the exact same thing in the exact same size.

And there is a bed in there. A queen size actually fits in there. But the bed fits exactly. Like you can't, there's nothing you can put on either side of the bed. Yeah, you kind of just have to crawl. If you have to reach the printer or whatever's over there, you have to crawl across the bed to get there. So that's what happened. So that was where I found your bin of goods that I was trying to snoop through.

What? What's over there? No, there was like on the other side of the bed, there was a Tupperware. And that's where I found like all your journals and stuff. Oh, fun. Did you know that's there? I do now. So I was trying to crawl over the bed to like put it back because I was bored.

There was nothing in there except all of your straight A report cards. Fucking nerd. And Em literally even sends me a photo and says, Em is proud of you. And it was Em holding like my participation volleyball trophy from middle school. And I was like, what? Fun fact, Christine was on the dean list every single semester of college. And her worst grade was three solid Bs. My mom was so mad at me about that.

I am mad at you, too. She still talks about it. Wow, a B was the best I could do. Anyway, I had to army crawl on the bed to get the tupperware on the other side to put it back when i was done with it and i was like i'm just gonna lie down i mean i'm too tired now it was like got on the mattress it was like all right i just it was like by the way it was a helix mattress so um promo code drink or something and uh i was just lying there and i was like wow i'm just like vibing i'm having such a good time just lying down here poor Eva's what's she doing she's out here like just sitting here like okay bye um so

Eva like looked around the door the the door frame and was like you having a good time in here and I guess while we were talking for a second the bed is not next to the you this in this room where the mattress is also where uh christine does her cricket machine listen if while we're throwing out everything embarrassing about me yes that is my cricket machine room and so what is that what would you call that lazy susan of material the fabric thing oh yeah my vinyl my vinyl carousel so okay so you've got a vinyl carousel of course i do let me show people can i grab it yes absolutely it used to just be all over the floor, so at least I have it sort of organized. I bought it at Michael's, my little carousel.

This is what I bought to make you clothes with. This is a t-shirt vinyl. It's a Lazy Susan. It's next to the bed. So while I'm lying on the bed and Eva shows up. Wait, what happened? Now I'm like freaking out. I was sitting there and we were just talking and this was not touching the bed.

I wasn't near this thing, but all of a sudden it started doing this all by itself. Wait, are you serious? All by itself. Spinning. Wait, what? Like a full rotation. Wait, and you saw this too? Because Eva pointed it out behind me.

She was like, why is that spinning by itself? And I turned around. Wait, and the cat wasn't here? No. Ew, what? It was spinning all by itself. And Eva was like, why is it spinning? And I looked over and it was fully rotating by itself.

Eva's making the eek face and I don't like it. And then I looked over and like, we checked to see like, oh, was there a gap? Like maybe when I rolled over on the mat or I sit and push it, nothing. There was a huge space between it. Well, that's never moved and it's never, it's never moved from that spot and it's never moved by itself. That's for sure. All by itself.

Like it did a full by itself and then rolled back on itself by itself. Are you for real? I'm not kidding. And that's why I sprinted out of the bedroom. What's weird is that, like, if that happened when I was here, I would be able to hear it and see it. So I don't know. Like, that's not something that's ever happened before. I don't like that.

Well, okay. I didn't realize that happened when I was gone. All I heard was, one, I'm disappointed in the lack of gossip I found in your in your I guess Dean's List report cards and me there's a ghost in your closet no it did it really freaked me out I was like that's a very it felt super intentional and also I had just been in the room like totally vibing so maybe it felt like super chill and safe to like try so maybe Eva showed up and it was like get out we're vibing maybe you just like ruined the vibe harsh the vibe but harsh the mellow but anyway so that happened and that's why i came over here and then you guys show up and all of a

sudden by the way the place that i left the helix mattress for was this little nook and on the other side right there yeah best nap of my fucking life it's like a window seat with an air conditioner unit and a Zach Bagans blanket. It's Em's new spot. I didn't care that Eva was here. I woke up and Christine was here from her midwife appointment. I was like, my cervix! Blah, blah, blah. And Em's just like, passed the hell out. Anyway, if you ever like, I don't know,

end up in Christine's house, that's the nook to take a nap in. Please don't end up in my house. Step one. But if you do, yeah. If you did, just go into that nook. You'll find it. You'll know it. It looks cozy. It now has a big label m's spot it also has a big dent from where my big ass body was lying for the last two hours so now we're finishing the story so carry it away christina we're gonna do this i'm drinking a pint some pineapple smoothie i'm gonna uh have some dates and some spicy food and wants to meet the baby before they leave.

So we're gonna do whatever we can. I want to catch the baby on its way out. Oh, sorry. Em wants to deliver the baby, I guess. Look again, I did watch TikTok for all of quarantine. I know how to deliver a baby at this point. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure.

I don't think that last sentence makes me feel very good. If anything, Dwight Schrute did teach me that babies are slippery. So I at least know that to catch it in my shirt or something butter oh yikes okay um all right so tell me about a really horrid thing instead of us being happy okay fantastic i actually have like a pretty wild one today that i feel like you'll get like jazzed yeah or like gasp you know what i mean somebody said that when i told you i forget what i think it might have been casey anthony that you were like your gasps were like oh epic so thank you i didn't know that we'll see i'm excited to do it again um i felt like it was a compliment to

me because i was like finally getting you like as like jazzed you know what i mean well let's try it all right let's try this is the story of michael and susan bear carson okay uh aka the san francisco witch killers oh i do like san francisco and i do like witches i do not like killers so two out of three yeah well which killer is i feel like a double bad then um because they're killers and they kill witches uh well well oh we'll get there spoiler alert so uh the i think the best summation of this case uh is a sentence from film daily which goes as follows when deborah says james clifford carson and susan barnes met things got pretty weird pretty fast so that's the that's the opening fair enough opening line to this movie sorry and now a door is creaking is it the little girl in your room spins my vinyl

was it the ghost of a cricket maybe how embarrassing i feel like if i called jim harold's camper i'd be like i have a vinyl uh carousel i feel like people would just immediately tune out my lazy susan just spends all the time of cricket materials so embarrassing okay 1977 we're at a party in phoenix arizona and a woman named susan is there and she lays eyes on a man named james and in that moment everything clicks in her soul it was love it was love and she says this is the one this is him That's what happened when our eyes met. I was like, if you say Alston, I'll punch you. But me?

Yes. 100%. Except no, because you were just sleeping in Professor Lohman's class. But that's okay. You know, it was a long day. You were totally right about Michael Lohman. That was his name. Right? Yeah.

He worked on Sesame Street. What's up, Michael Lohman? Okay. Okay. So basically, her feeling was she had been waiting for this man for the last three years of her life and she means that in a literal sense so say three years not four okay no so according to oxygen after taking mescaline on one occasion in 1974 now do you know what mescaline is no because i'm like not a big baby i didn't really like a mushroom thing it is a hallucinogen it's the active

ingredient in peyote oh and uh she saw she had she saw things um and according to wikipedia it's a naturally occurring psychedelic known for its hallucinogenic effects comparable to those of lsd so she had taken mescaline in 1974 and she had a vision that she would soon meet the man of her dreams whoa three years later when she finally saw she had a vision that she would soon meet the man of her dreams. Whoa. Three years later, when she finally saw James at a party, she thought, this is the man I've been searching for. And according to James' daughter, Jen, who becomes like a character in the story, Jen said that when the pair met, quote, it was almost like two magnets just shooting across the room and joining.

I think they had great sexual attraction. Girl, okay. It's like. That's their daughter talking? That's his daughter. his daughter that's how you know that's when your own kid can tell dad and stepmom it's just no way to deny it i guess you know what kind of awkward but you know what i guess i appreciate her awareness of the situation for real why not be honest about it yeah it's like yo they were horned up okay i feel like jen somewhere's like i didn't say that sorry for the paraphrase again this is why we're not real journalists um so that party kicked off what would become significant chapters of both susan's and

michael's lives now remember i just um said mich, but if you're listening very carefully, you're like, wait, that's not his name. It's James, which it took me a while to put that together. But there's a reason. So at the party, immediately after their eyes locked, Susan went up to James and told him about her vision, that he was the one she had been waiting for. Can you imagine? Yeah. And so apparently, instead of being like cool i gotta go refill my beer uh he was like wow i love that for us and was all over it good for good for her though like

she did she just went for it right like if you are to approach someone and say like you're the man of my dreams don't you want him to say then let's fucking go yeah i mean what else it works out right like if he's like no i'm not then like you've got problems oh i picked wrong yeah or i shouldn't have yeah because now the man of my dreams is like scared of me yeah i do like to think if someone approached me and said something like that of like we're supposed to be best friends i'd be like i'll give it a whirl i think i would be like i do too much true crime for this i don't't think this is going to fly. I'd be like, we'll text and maybe see each other between a brick wall or something. I'd be like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

I'm really busy this weekend. Maybe some other time. So he is like, hell yeah. I'm in it. I'm on it. And she says, here's the vision specifically. This is what I envisioned in my mescaline high. Okay.

Here we go. Yeah. So she says, james your name is really michael and you are named after the angel who fought the devil and apparently the conversation literally went no my name is james to which she responded no you are michael an angel of god um in that moment he immediately went hmm i was on board and now i feel like i am not on board i think so and you would hope so but did he just like ride he was like okay and he immediately instantly changed his name to michael like not legally but like and started introducing himself she really did find

her perfect match like she for what it's worth they did match up pretty well yeah and he was like instead of like red flag central it was like magical unicorn rainbow central of like this is my sounds like that's exactly what they both wanted yeah yeah they were bound to be uh magnetically horn dogged up or whatever you said a minute ago and not jen i don't i stand by what i said so oxygen Oxygen described it as follows. It didn't take long for the new couple to descend into a life of sex and hallucinogenic drug taking. But it wasn't all fun and games. Which to me sounds like Keith Morrison. Like, but it wasn't all fun and games.

Like he has like a. No, that's not a good impression. Like a narrator. But it wasn't all fun. Like he has this podcast now and it's just like you can just hear keith morrison in your head and it's so i think of like um what's his name zach morrison or zach morris from saved by the bell oh and he's like freeze frame it wasn't all fun and games that's a more fun way to do it yeah it was not i feel like zach morris that was his name right yeah thank you eva for the some 80s knowledge there like check keith morrison, to me, sounds like he's having too much fun with the horrible true crime story.

But it wasn't all fun and games. Just wait for me to tell you what happens. And it's like, okay. It's like he's on the edge of his seat with a really good story. With his own story. So let me tell you a little bit about these two folks. So Michael Bayer Carson. That's his new name, right right because he was james remember right he was born james clifford carson on november 28th

1950 sagittarius and grew up in oklahoma um according to a site called the socians i think that's how you say it like it's s-o-c-i-a-n-s socians? Socians? Socians. I don't know. It looks like social, but Socian. Yeah. Socials with an N. So this website is really wild. So this is their little about me. It says, at the Socians, we bring you lesser known and discussed contents in an interesting and broad range of comprehensive and enlightening articles on the subject range from bizarre

crimes, occult history and mystery, untold stories, mini blogs, blogs hashtag me too and a forum to satisfy your thirst of knowledge and curiosity we strive to maintain a balance of healthy skepticism and entertainment while never losing our sense of humor i feel like we need along with them that's a it's a blast i was on there like are we the socians i love i want to be one now hang on is that like a membership we can join i don't know i want to be invited if someone out there is a socian tell first tell us. First tell us how to say it. Yeah. Because that would be embarrassing in the interview if we don't know how to say it. All I want to do is be a Socean.

And they're like, well, that's not a Socean. You're actually not allowed. That's test one and you failed. So according to their site, James Clifford Carson was a non-traditionalist white collar class dropout. He was learned and he took a unique enthusiasm for history, religions, and reasoning. He was learned and he took a unique enthusiasm for history, religions, and reasoning. It was at University of Iowa where he was getting a degree in Chinese studies that he met his first wife, Lynn. And when they graduated, they had a daughter named Jennifer.

And that's Jen who later meets her stepmom. Who describes him a little too well. A little too on the nose, if you will. So the family moved to Arizona where he worked as a stay-at-home dad taking care of jennifer and lynn worked as a teacher and jennifer remembers her dad as an adoring father and like she considered herself daddy's little girl but when she turned four or five lynn and jennifer both noted problems with james um he started dealing weed and around that time he began becoming really violent according to an article on wBUR, which is like the Boston Public Radio. Okay.

Fun fact. Oh. He began violently threatening anyone who upset him, including his own wife. Oh, shit. He got a gun. And that's when Lynn was like, I'm out of here. So when Jen was five in 1979, her parents divorced after a decade of marriage. And her mom was like

you're coming with me to the little one so meanwhile susan who they have not their stars have not aligned yet uh-huh okay she is um named susan barnes originally now i want to specify it gets confusing but susan barnes is s-U-S-A-N for now. For now, okay. For now. On September 14th, 1941 is when she was born, so she's a Virgo. She was living the classic American rural housewife life in the 60s. She had two teenage sons, but she kind of was feeling trapped, so she wanted more from her life.

She got divorced, started doing drugs, including LSD, mescaline, peyote, etc. And how is she getting her hands on peyote in the 50s or 70s? 70s. OK. You know, a lot of things were traveling about 70s desert life. Like I think, you know, if you're in the right crowds, Arizona, I think she's in Arizona. Yeah. Yeah.

That makes sense. In my mind, I was thinking Boston. No, the other guy. I think she's in Arizona. Yeah. Yeah. That makes more sense. In my mind, I was thinking Boston. No, the other guy. Yeah, I did talk about the Boston public radio. But no. So the one guy's in Oklahoma. I'm not entirely sure.

I think she was from Arizona. Whatever. She found peyote. She did it. If you want peyote, you can probably find it, is what I'm guessing. Sounds like it. Yeah. So she starts doing drugs. Now this gets pretty bad because she starts inviting her teenage son's

friends and schoolmates over and like sleeping with them, which is like, yuck. Oh, um, according to oxygen, uh, it was thought that she had slept with 150 young men.

And by that, I mean like often boys. So, and these are all from her son's high school. Um, probably not all, but just like like that's where she was pulling them from. So they were minors, right? A lot of them were minors. Okay.

So we should clarify. And not coal miners. Not coal miners. Not coal miners. Child miners. And we should clarify it's rape though. I would think so. If they were her teenage son's friends, then presumably it was statutory rape, yes.

Got it. So when she turned 35, while supposedly totally sober, which, okay, we'll see. But allegedly sober, she had an epiphany that she was a mystic because she was having so many mind flights. What in the world does that mean? What is a mind flight big question mark okay that is what led her to believe she is a mystic a prophet she's very special well i would sure like to know what the fuck a mind flight is so i can see if i'm also a mystic honestly like you just wouldn't understand i apparently not i imagine that's like astral projecting that's all

i can that's what it sounds like right a mind flight you fly away from your own body it sounds like drugs like it sounds like you go on drugs and you have a mind flight is what it sounds like to me it sounds like when you're high you are like literally high i don't know but it's it's to each their own obviously i guess so uh she was having mind flights and she was a mystic because of it. So one of her visions told her she was going to meet a man called Michael. And by that we mean James, but she decided he was named Michael because he was the one. And she's like, well,

I guess your name is now Michael. Cause that fits my vision. Okay. So they did meet. This is just a fun, like throwback to horoscopes, horoscopes. We got a Sagittarius and a Virgo which apparently are not

a good match loving that we're doing this I know right that's a brilliant idea because like this is one of those very much like partner crimes that like have you ever done Bonnie and Clyde I did it for a live show once and we did read the horoscopes fun okay

you're like fun that must have been great i bet i was you were excited then i think but it's been well i'm sure i have the notes somewhere um so the star sign compatibility as a sagittarius and virgo this is according to astrology zodiac signs.com there's only a 32 romantic compatibility uh the relationship between a virgo and a sagittarius is not a usual happy ending emotional story. There are many challenges in their way, the biggest being their emotional lack of understanding

and their possible lack of respect. Still, when they find a way to show emotions and share them in the same pace and in an understandable way, they could actually have a lot of fun together. Their communication is often exciting and they both have a lot to say to each other, but their rationality may distract them from an actual search for love. If they discover how well they complement Oh. What?

Oh my gosh. And when it comes to communication, they have a 60%. So like still a D, but way better than a 1 percent for so one percent on compatibility at all no no for trust for oh one one percent that they will work out trusting that trust wise they are good match and 60 communication wise that sounds like some bad bad comments yeah it's not like a good sign um so if you're out there and you're like wait that's me and my partner like i'm sure it's different for you but also like if you happen to be like i feel i feel bad for that one like virgo or sagittarius who's in like having a fight right now with the person they're dating because they don't trust each other it's like oh no well homie one percent

in the stars it's not your fault like it's neither of your fault it's just like it's in the stars. It's not your fault. It's neither of your faults. It's not you. It's the sky. It's the universe did it. The world's mind flight or something. Mercury's on a mind flight. Mercury's in mind flight, and it's not your fault, okay? So don't worry about it. 60% communication. Just talk it out. You got this.

You'll figure it out. I mean, I'm married to a Capricorn. That's not supposed to work out either. So, like, hey, you know what? Sometimes it can work. It's going to have to now. Look at that belly. It's too late. that's not supposed to work out either. So like, Hey, you know what? Sometimes it can work. It's going to have to now look at that belly. It's too late. It's too late to turn back.

So this was allegedly their fate. According to, according to Susan and I guess also Michael slash James, but Jen, the daughter reckons that because of her father's state at the time, quote, if he had fallen in love with a televangelist, he would have become one.

If she had joined ISIS, he would have, whoa. He was that much of a follower. He was drawn to extremists, people he found really exciting. Yeah. What is,

what's their percentage rating on loyalty? A thousand percent? That's a great point. Blind loyalty. Blind loyalty. That's a really good point. I mean, for her to even have the confidence of like,

if I became like a, like a cult member, he would absolutely have came with me he would become a terrorist wow yeah i don't know well that was the daughter saying it oh saying like if this woman like she was saying about her own dad i like to think she still knows him pretty fucking yes no completely and she was watching it from a third party perspective about her own dad too so she was like he was screwed basically with the next extremist he met um so i don't know if that's a sagittarius thing i don't know much about sagittarius so uh i know deirdre is a sagittarius and she's like vastly independent though hmm i don't know i don't know i feel like terry's but i don't know I don't think he would have become a terrorist

I've never yeah I was gonna say I've never met anyone that Deirdre has been like I'd be a terrorist for them maybe this is just a him problem a James it feels like this one involves childhood matters there's a lot more happening behind the scenes maybe than just the stars okay so things have progressed quickly not surprisingly moved in together. Susan continued to have more visions as their relationship progressed. So the next vision she had told her that they should change their last names to Bear Carson. So Bear, B-E-A-R. Just like add the word Bear, Grizzly Bear, to their middle name. So James slash Michael was now Michael Bear Carson, and she was Susan bear.

And, um, she also changed her name from Susan with an S to Susan with a Z. So that's where I was trying to say like, Oh, so instead of Susan, she's Susan. Instead of September,

she's September. Yeah, exactly. Susan, Susan sounds the same to me, but so does September and September. So I don't know anymore, but apparently she changed her name from Susan to Susan.

Okay. Which is like, that's the least wild thing she's done so far. Yeah, so far if that was like Allison's biggest request in our relationship, I'd be like, whatever. She's like, I'm going to take one L out of my name. Yeah. It's going to be wild. It's like, okay. I'm going to be Allison, actually.

I just am like, that's okay. I guess that's the least wild. But I guess she had a whole vision about that um now most strikingly the next vision um susan now urged michael that they had a new calling and this was that they were going to become witch killing muslims holy shit wow that's a deep dive it's that's a big change from just changing your middle name to bear. That part is like, okay, you do you. Have a little crisis. Change your name to an animal.

That's fine. Also, like, a bad look for Muslims. Yeah, these two white suburban folks decide they're going to become, quote, witch-killing Muslims. Which is, like, that's their phrase, to be clear. They did not actually become Muslims, to be clear. This is their phrasing. Right. So, yes, Muslims who kill witches was literally what they were trying yikes holy shit apologies

to witches and muslims by apologies big ones um so as oxygen later specified unfortunately susan and michael missed the part of islam that prohibits the taking of mind-altering drugs and murder while we're at it they're kind of doing their own thing at this point while we're at it. I feel like they're kind of doing their own thing at this point. While we're at it, right. And created their own sick cult-like religion, dragging the name of Allah into it as justification. Gross. The couple claimed to be vegetarian Muslim warriors, that's a quote,

who held the belief that their higher power wanted them to kill people who took part in witchcraft, homosexuality, and abortion. Well, I'm gone. They believed I was gone a long time ago but yeah i guess gone is in i guess the fuck out of the story yeah they believed that they were doing this for the sake of the country's future and that they were initiators of a holy war against witches gross if they were in this day and age though imagine the like ranks they would have climbed

in q anon by now in q anon indeed yeah i mean it's it's story time and time tale as old as time let's put it that way as you say uh-huh as one says sure sure so now there's another cool site called here's the fucking twist which is like that if that's not a podcast it needs to be are you listening here's the fucking twist can we be on your show actually that'd be so fun i love it um in the most recent vision susan rattled off a list and michael wrote it down it was a list of witches including president ronald reagan johnny carson and california governor jerry brown among others and she also included a detailed plan on how they were going to kill ronald reagan so that's good that's great just like just have a

paper trail for your presidential assassination take a legal pad and write it down just so you don't forget. So there's a medium article by, uh, Dela near Bartlett. And, uh, this is a quote. This is,

I've already known about this for a while. Cause it's one of my weird deep dive researches once, but, uh, this kind of shared madness is called folia. Do you know about that? Nope. Okay.

I do, but I'll explain why. Um, or more clinically a shared psychotic disorder. So it's like a delusional disorder that's shared by two people. Oh. And it's often like people who share really close emotional ties. And there's a passive partner and an active partner.

So Susan would have been the active partner in this case. And Michael is the passive one who just joins in on the delusion. So is it like they're enabling each other's like crazy thoughts yes it's sort of like they're both in the exact same like shared psychosis and so there's a fallout boy album obviously called folia and it's obviously it's a great album but so that's obviously when i learned about it back in high school but yes and ins, it's like a common theme of like, it's something called folia de, shared madness of two.

It's like a French term. Anyway, so if you watch Criminal Minds, you probably have heard this term before. But that is what, it's very rare, because obviously. It's tough to find two people who agree to this. Who are like, I'm 110% in on this thing about Muslims killing witches. Sure.

That's what happened. That's a rare find. It's a rare find. But I mean, she, she was right about one thing, which is that's the guy. And it was,

you know, the one time the mescaline hit, right. One time she found her man, the mescaline gave her an accurate vision. So they have this shared madness, the shared delusion, which is very dangerous, especially if it's like violent, because they can both, like you said, like back each other up and approve each other's terrible, terrible ideas. So the problem is, well, there's a lot of problems, but one of the problems is that Michael's daughter, Jen, who was still a little girl had to go shared custody and like stay with them at the townhouse from time to time.

Yeah. And she in like in a Huffington post article, she like recalls, um, she does a lot of interviews, which is kind of cool to like talk about the experience and stuff. So we have a lot of like firsthand accounts from her. And she talks about Susan's living room being painted completely black.

She said there were no furniture, no lamps. It was dark. And there were a hundred potted plants. and she talks about Susan's living room being painted completely black. She said there were no furniture, no lamps. It was dark and there were a hundred potted plants. It looked like the haunted forest in Snow White. It sounds like Eva's place on Halloween. It sounds like just succulents everywhere. Well, hopefully it stops there because she continued, when I would go there for visitations, they wouldn't feed me because they were passed out on the only piece of furniture in the apartment, which was a king-size waterbed.

No, Eva feeds me. They were passed out naked. Okay, stop. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So it gets worse.

So there's one waterbed, 100 plants, everything is painted black, and this poor little girl comes over to stay. Can you imagine the trauma? Trauma. Horrible. That's just like writing the next therapy session. I mean, the fact that this Jen, as an adult, is like, it looked like the Snow White haunted forest is like so sad because as a little girl,

you know that's what she was thinking about. Yeah. Like how scary that would have been. That's awful. So she also says she escaped the house once and tried to call the operator, but all she could say was like she wanted her mommy, but like obviously they didn't know at the time like how to do that so like she was really it was bad so sad and then yeah because

they couldn't help her so she just felt trapped and scared and she wanted she clearly wanted to go home yeah god and so in that wbr wbr article uh she remembers a particularly terrifying moment when her stepmother susan carson came into the room and started rubbing her back she ended up scratching her and leaving five open wounds she was saying things to me like i will scratch the demon out of you oh fuck off what the hell yeah it was horrific you remember when someone is threatening to kill you or tries and harms you in this way i'm like yeah especially if you're a little kid so it's also not just like emotional mental trauma like she's now getting abused yes correct holy shit and the stepmother is like clearly off her rocker and is like you're a demon now you're a witch wow you know and it's like holy crap is jen still alive yes yes she's doing all these interviews um so that was the final straw

thank god for jen's mother lynn who was like who they like went on the run because she was like i don't want her involved sure life took them for she's they were on the run for like four years which sucks that like that's what you have to do to get out of the situation you have to go into hiding basically to like escape this abusive person but you know the world treated them kindly i do too holy crap so lynn packed up the car in the middle of the night took her daughter they left phoenix and they spent the next four years moving across the country. They finally settled in Orange County, California. And Lynn, all she told her daughter was like, your father's sick, so we can't be near him.

That's so sad too. Which is really sad. Especially as a little kid when you don't understand mental illness. Yeah, completely. You just be like, you know, I mean, yeah, like dad's sick. There's nothing you can do about it. Which is like true, you know. And the last thing she remembers is being told she's has a demon inside her yeah wow so thankfully

at least they got out of there before much more happened um after a year of being together susan and michael sold their townhouse and traveled to europe so that they could preach their beliefs quote-unquote beliefs to the people of europe um as part of their travels, they landed in Stonehenge and had a moonlit wedding, whatever that means. It wasn't legally binding. It's not like anybody actually. Well, it sounds like they're,

oh, they're, they're witch killers, not witches. No, they're witch killers. Witch killing Muslims. God damn it.

Okay. Cause I was going to say like, maybe it's like a moon, a nighttime ceremony under the moon or something, but maybe they called it a Muslim ceremony, but like it wasn't, obviously. So they traveled around Europe for a year, but then ran out of money, which obviously, like, I don't think that they were doing anything productive with their time. So they decided to go.

Right. Did they have jobs this whole time? I don't know. Honestly, it doesn't sound like it. Okay. They decided to go to San Francisco where they moved in with a woman named karen barnes which karen well poor karen yeah poor karen okay poor karen poor karen indeed um you're not wrong so she uh was an aspiring actor and her last name is barnes but she's not related to susan barnes

um which is her main incidences in this story i know know. So Karen Barnes was a 23-year-old aspiring actor from Georgia, enjoying kind of the hippie scene of San Francisco. And a while into rooming with Karen, Michael and Susan started to really like Karen and want her to be part of their relationship on a more sexual level. With her consent?

Well, I'm just saying they wanted her to be in the fold in a sexual way. I don't want that for her. I don't either. So they approached Karen with their proposition and she was like, I'm not interested. But Susan was like, oh, I know why she declined. Do you have a guess? Because she's a witch?

Correct. Motherfucker. Yeah. So she's like, I know why she doesn't want to be in a relationship with us because she's a witch. And she would be falling in love with two witch killers, obviously. Obviously. That would be terrible. It's like Romeo and Juliet.

Can you imagine? Do they kill her? Correct, yes. So as witch-killing vegetarian Muslim warriors, they were like, wow, we got to figure this out. They had a vision. It came during a rainstorm. And they decided, wow, Karen is a witch

who is trying to steal our yogic powers. Oh, for fuck's sake. Yeah. And Susan said she believed Karen was taking away her health, power, and beauty. I think you're just aging and problematic, my friend. I think you just have bigger problems. I think you're just withering away. And you're refusing to look in the mirror.

Right. It's someone else's beauty that's the problem. So they were like, we know what to do. Apparently, during the rainstorm, every time Susan thought about killing Karen, the thunder would clap. So she's like, that's the universe telling me, or Allah telling me, this is a sign. So on March 6,

1981, Susan ordered Michael to kill Karen when she got home from work. That evening, Michael stalked the 23-year-old to the kitchen, where he beat her in the head with a cast-iron frying pan and then stabbed her 13 times. Holy shit! In the face and neck uh they then wrapped her body in a blanket put her head on a pillow and did a series of bizarre childlike drawings all over the walls before leaving and that was an oxygen quote oh now there's no photos of these drawings or like much description but we

do know that she had written susan had written her name next to all the drawings so like at the very least we know it was very like there was no doubt that she had done this thanks for giving yourself credit signing your work yeah oh wow and also like interesting that i wonder if the 13 stabs was on purpose oh i didn't think if she's a witch right fuck 100 that would have been a really weird coincidence otherwise i feel like that makes a lot of sense i mean it makes no sense but it makes zero yeah we're trying to make sense out of something that is so senseless so um the following day police found karen's body in the apartment uh unfortunately yeah there's no

pictures of these drawings or any description but they did say sus Susan. A close friend of Karen's who had heard the news went to the crime scene and told police, like, hey, she was living with these two weird people named Michael and Susan. See something, say something. See something, say something. And she thought they were pretty odd, and they had disappeared.

So, hello, suspects. And when the police spoke to Karen's mom, thank God Karen's mom, like, knew their full names, Michael and Susan Bear Carson. However, since those weren't their real names and they were never legally changed, they were not in the database anywhere. Kind of, I mean, for crazy killers, brilliant move.

But like, yeah, that sucks. It's a bummer. Real bummer. Yeah. So unfortunately, they were not able to find them on any databases and they spent a year trying to locate these roommates in california and again this is like the early 80s there's not much tracking you can't track necessarily people's like gps or credit cards you know that kind of thing so

it was very they just couldn't find them um so the case went cold meanwhile michael and susan had hitchhiked to oregon and they believe it was Allah who led them to a mountain hideout where they stayed for refuge, but they got bored pretty quickly. Okay. And decided in spring of 1982 that they wanted to move back to California, so they moved to a place called Alder Point and decided to start working on a marijuana farm. This is where I'm like, man, I wish they had just moved to a marijuana farm, lived out the rest of their stupid lives there and left people alone. But, but no, they just can't drop the fucking fake Muslim thing.

Um, okay. So they had an argument with, with a coworker. He was 26 years old. His name was Clark Stevens. And he was friends with the owner of the farm where they, the marijuana farm.

And because he was loud and drank a lot, uh, the bear Carsons as they were known decided oh he's this is blasphemous he's like insulting our god allah okay so which i'm like you're doing lsd every day right okay but okay you also um i'm pretty sure definitely fucking murder somebody let alone stab somebody exactly yeah they are the wrong ones so he says uh they are like well he's uh blaspheming our god so according to us aka the socians the socians that's us officially whether or not they want us too late i've made the decision uh what had

happened was that for one reason or another susan tried to block clark from entering the farm one day so clark cussed her out. So Susan declared Clark a witch, and Michael was tasked as his executioner. Oh, God. He shot Clark in the face. Whoa. Got rid of the body by burying it in the woods under chicken fertilizer after burning it. He was then reported missing two weeks later to the Humboldt County Sheriff,

who was successful in finding the remains. And James Carson would later explain that, James, a.k.a. Michael, would later explain that Clark Stevens was a demon who had abused his wife, and that's why they killed him. Wow. And for what it's worth,

the end of the story later, he basically explains that everybody they killed was abusing his wife. And it's like, I don't think that's true. I guarantee you you're wrong. Yeah, it's just like a weird lie that he invented to make it sound better, but it doesn't. Okay.

So similar to the whole Karen thing, Susan and Michael fled north again to go back into the woods and hide, which they did. And while they were busy living in the wild and they would only go to town for food, police had discovered some of the couple's belongings. Most importantly, they had left behind a manifesto in which they described how they were going to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. Again, yeah.

Paper trail. Leave it. Just left it there. They really love saying their names on shit. So stupid. Yeah. They wrote their name all over the walls. Yeah.

So now they're writing this fucking manual of how to kill the president. And so, of course, the government is like, oh, this isn't good. These people who have murdered multiple people are now writing like a pamphlet on how to kill the president. And so it was because of this. This is the first time Jennifer and Lynn, like the daughter and ex-wife, ever heard about these murders because the Secret Service showed up at their door and they're like, we have this documentation that like your ex-husband wants to murder the president. And Lynn was like, wait, what? And so they hadn't even heard about any of the murders until the Secret Service showed up and was like, yeah,

they've murdered a couple people and they want to kill the president. And they were like, thank God we ran away four years ago. Yeah, truly truly because we didn't want to be part of this so the case went somewhat cold as they were trying to track them down but unfortunately this time they this is pretty weird so according to here's the fucking twist uh michael ended up being randomly arrested for hitchhiking in los angeles uh in november of 1982 but due to police error, he was quickly released and he disappeared before they realized who he was. So the police brought him into arrest. They arrested him,

but then they let him go. He made up his story? And they were like, wait, that was the guy who we're looking for and he was gone. So it sucks. What was the way that he got himself out of there? They accidentally released him due to police error.

Oh, accidentally released him. They released him and then he was gone and they were like, oh shit, that was the guy that he got himself out of there? They accidentally released him due to police error. Oh, accidentally released him. They released him and then he was gone and they were like, oh shit, that was the guy we were looking for. And then he just was a dash to the races. In the wind. Yeah. And unfortunately there's another victim. So it's like that really could have been. I would have been.

I would lose sleep as the cop who just let that person go. I'm sure. I'm sure that they probably did. So by January of 1983, Michael and Susan caught a ride into town with a 30-year-old man named John Charles Hellyer and his pickup truck. Susan was sitting between Michael slash James and John. And while driving, John touched Susan's leg, allegedly, which intimidated her. And she suddenly had a clarity from Allah that he was a witch. Wow. intimidated her and she suddenly had a clarity from Allah that he was a witch. So just any,

any slight inconvenience that a bot that disturbs her for less than a millisecond. I also feel like being a witch is such a cliche now. Like really, you couldn't think of anything better than like the classic, like, Oh, you look funny.

You're a witch. Oh, you made me, you stole my tomatoes. You're a witch. Like, I feel like it's just such a cliche. Okay. been done by the way like 1692 it's been done really thoroughly we don't need to do it over at least be original i guess they are with their

muslim thing i guess i guess they tried to put a spin on lizard people but then again i guess that's not really original either yeah none of it seems to be very creative or original so um it's like clear it's like they're just coming up with a reason because they don't fucking like because they're just like decided this is this is this is the justification exactly so allegedly he touched her leg she was like wow this man is a witch so uh they michael pulled a gun on John, but John fought back, stopped the car. They were wrestling outside over the gun and Susan stabbed John. And in this moment, Michael grabbed the gun from John and shot him in front of a ton of drivers on the road. Like so many even. Yeah. Like everybody saw this happen. So a UPS driver saw the shooting. So he called the police, ran over to John to help.

And this is really sad. John's last words were help me brother oh and john's brother danny worked for ups and thinks that it was because this guy was in a ups uniform and who tried to help him and his last words were help me brother fuck so his brother danny thinks like that's which he says haunts him oh can you imagine yeah and he just said yeah so it gives me like he was the last person you thought of yes yeah or you were the last person you thought of exactly so um the police ran over to river road um i guess what the i guess the cop who was called had been at a fruit stand which is very california very california oh my gosh i'm regularly called that a fruit stand.

The jicama can wait. Oh God. I love a good jicama. There's one guy right next to my favorite donut place that has a great jicama. Great California combo, some donuts and some jicama. Yep. Um, so the police show up from the fruit cart and, uh, they do a car chase. They follow Michael and Susan in John's car, by the way, because they were hitching a ride. So they had taken his car. Um, the police were able to catch up with Michael and Susan and they spun the truck out of control into a ditch. They were arrested,

brought into the station. And while being questioned, Michael and Susan had no interest in speaking about their motive for murdering John. They only wanted to talk about their religion, quote unquote, and about witches. And police had found a letter michael had written

which said that no one cared that he and susan had killed the biggest witch in san francisco um and when the police were like okay they're admitting to killing the biggest witch in san francisco they were like oh that was karen barnes because they put together like all the weird drawings and the same names and they went on the run. And, uh, so they were basically like, aha.

So he has a letter that says, why does basically bitching that nobody cared that he killed the biggest witch in San Francisco, which is like, which like complaint, cool complaint. But also I do appreciate that he didn't get the notoriety he was hoping for. Yes,

that too. That's true. That's true. But I mean, like I still wish I wish it didn't happen obviously yeah but like i do appreciate when like you don't get what you want out of right it's better than being glorified i guess yeah so they obviously connected the dots and were like aha these are the same people who killed karen barnes thankfully we figured this out however when they tried to get them to confess on on record uh they insisted they would only

confess if they put them on a press conference because they wanted to talk to the masses the public so according to oxygen on march 10th a press conference was held where the carsons ranted about everything from george orwell's 1984 president reagan being the devil and why witches need to be killed michael said susan had the power to identify witches via visions she got from Allah, and that's how they knew they had to kill Karen. Can you imagine them being like, this was a mistake, giving them a press conference? It's like, why did we give them a press conference? Someone's like slowly taking the microphone.

It's just kind of like. They're just turning the volume down. Okay, keep going. We're all listening. So they also admitted to killing the marijuana farm guy, Clark. And after six hours of ranting, keep going. We're all listening. So they also admitted to killing the marijuana farm guy, Clark. And after six hours of ranting, six hours. Not to gloss over that. How come after six minutes they weren't like, let's shut this down?

That's what I wonder. I guess because they were confessing to multiple crimes throughout that. So they were kind of like, we have to keep them going. So at least they'll keep talking. I guess. And since it's a press conference, I don't know. Maybe they didn't put it on TV. I don't know how it worked.

I really don't. But so they were charged after this six-hour rant with multiple crimes, including three counts of first-degree murder. Their trial began in May of 1984. And despite having confessed to everything in the press conference, they both pleaded not guilty. They were like, we didn't do that. It's like, wait a second. Wait, what? both pleaded not guilty they were like we didn't do that it's like wait a second wait what they said not guilty yeah yeah so what did they what i know you're gonna get to it later but like did they was their defense like that they were like high on mescaline or something their defense is that they didn't do it and i'll get to it but they're high on mescaline andlin and that's why they had been rambling and no no they just said wait no we didn't do it okay okay so um i want to say i'll explain but like i won't explain

i'll just say that again in like i'll just repeat it i'll just repeat it um so they pleaded not guilty according to the petaluma argus courier report michael carson said they only confessed to the three deaths at the conference at the press conference because we don't believe in lying which implies to me that okay so you weren't lying right right like I don't know but right right they said they wouldn't tell if they killed anyone else they said but you're not gonna get anything they're breaking a lot of rules that like most that's like a basic tenet in any religion of like don't lie don't fucking murder don't i mean okay sorry just keep going oh my god um that's because you don't know about their religion this is i'm not one of them clearly i mean i am a homosexual might as well be a witch

just throw it in there um so they said we don't believe in lying but we will not say if we killed anyone else don't try us like being secretive about something like that is also not good. Don't ask me. It's like, uh-oh. So they said, we are not fools. We know exactly what we are doing. We are doing it for good reason. Okay.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. That's what they all say. After three days of this trial, which Jen describes as a zoo, the daughter, Michael and Susan were both found guilty and given life sentences. Michael is incarcerated at Mule Creek State Prison. Susan's at Central California Women's Facility. And the most recent update I could find is that in 2020, Michael was denied parole. According to a CBS News report, he canceled his original parole hearing in 2015 because

he didn't want to renounce his religious beliefs. This is where I was surprised because I was like, after all the drugs and decades later, you'd think that they would have at least had like some clarity. I mean, I wonder if they like had the ability to write each other letters or something and he was still holding on. Because like you think if he's like completely separated and removed from her after all those years, he would have had some sort of awakening.

That's a good point and it makes me wonder like maybe if it's just a desperation of like not admitting to yourself that you literally just killed people for no reason or maybe it's one of those things where you think about it for so long like you've convinced yourself that you were right you just can't back out of it i don't know yeah because he said he refused to uh he canceled his parole hearing because he refused to renounce his religious beliefs and he said no one is going to parole me because i will not and have not renounced my beliefs he wrote on a form to cancel the hearing in 2015 susan was denied parole for 15 years and her next hearing is set for december 2030 so i don't know yeah so i don't know where she stands

i do know that he apparently is still claiming that he, uh, he believes what he did. And so that's, that's in like nine years. He's got another chance. Wow. And he was denied in 2020. So he had another hearing last year and was denied parole. So there's a chance she'll probably,

she'll probably get denied. I have a feeling it'll probably be denied unless she's like, wow, you're right. I was so crazy. I shouldn't have done that. I was going to say, what would be a real twist is, is if she convinced him into this kind of

world or like like enabled him into thinking like this but he he refuses to like he's the one who doesn't let it go but she's not but she does i feel like that is a very like like that could be like a movie plot then i imagine he would really fucking snap by like 2031. Then he's going to lose his mind. Yeah. I think that would really break his brain. I feel like that's a very Criminal Minds plot. I think so too.

That could be an episode of Criminal Minds. So the last thing I want to talk about real quick is from that WBUR article. It was written by Yasmin Amer and she wrote a piece with Jen so it was like Jen's first hand the daughter's first hand account from childhood all the way to like the trial and today um and she told she's told a lot of news stations like about her relationship with her dad and how things have been from her perspective yeah have they gotten better does she talk no I don't think they have a relationship I don't blame her if i don't talk at all she yeah i don't totally know um it doesn't seem like all of her viewpoints seem very much like from the perspective of like she and her mom like learning about this and having to like

witness the trial and i can't even imagine like i mean just just that one time of like being in that dark room and like getting scratched on her back should have been that's alone yeah that enough let alone having to spend the next four years on fucking edge all the time yeah traveling around the country hiding yeah i imagine as a child feeling some sort of guilt like my mom is doing this for me and her whole life is uprooted probably some fear and then and then learning like my dad is sick but not knowing what that means and not knowing how to fix it or why is my dad sick and what's going on with that. And not even knowing.

And then on top of that, like, your dad is a killer. Yeah. And now you have to, like, unpack that for yourself. And now he's in jail. And he's also still, after all these years, not renouncing anything. And he refuses to change his, like, perspective. I can't imagine what she's going through. Yeah.

That woman deserves a medal. Yeah, agreed. And so she talks a lot about that experience. And she, this is just a really like sweet anecdote that I feel like is a good like button to this story. Speaking of Lohman's class, he taught us what a button is at the end of an episode. So she talked about the time of her parents' divorce

and the murders and a teacher she had named Mrs. Case. So this is from Yasmin's article. So just to not try and butcher this, I'm just going to read the section from the article. Sure. By third grade, Jen was preparing herself for another difficult academic year. She put her hair in front of her eyes

to avoid interacting with the new teacher. I know. It was then that the teacher, Mrs. Sylvia Case, did something Jen didn't expect. Quote, I just remember her saying, Jenny, I heard you were such a great reader. Why don't you help me hold the book? It makes me want to cry. It makes me want to cry. That was the

beginning of something new. Jen learned to love books, and over the years, she caught up academically. Mrs. Case once brought her hair barrettes as a prize for good grades on a... Mrs. Case. I know. We don't deserve teachers. I know. Especially Mrs. Case. For good grades on a spelling test to help her keep her hair out of her eyes. She also helped Jen get into the Girl Scouts and apply for reduced lunch when she suspected money was tight at home, which it was.

But there's one thing Jen remembers the most. A lot of teachers would say good job. She would say, your cursive M's look like art. Oh, Mrs. Case. That makes me cry. Oh, my gosh. She would give sincere and specific compliments and i think it's one of the kindest things you can do because you're saying to another human i see

you and i see the goodness in you oh jen never told mrs case or any adult for that matter about any of this she just remembers going into her class and asking for a hug which also shows that like this mrs case woman was so intuitive and like this case you know what the fuck was going on she was like i don't know what's going on but i know something is going intuitive and like, what the fuck was going on? She was like, I don't know what's going on, but I know something is going on. And like, you're going through something.

Also like, I love when kids feel safe to give their teachers hugs. Completely. Completely. Um, so she said, uh, she remembers asking for a hug when I found out that my father was a monster

who killed a bunch of people. And my brain started saying, you're worthless. You're a bad girl. I kept going to Mrs. Case. She said I was a good girl and she built a resilience in me that i believe saved my life jen went on to live a full life which included going to college getting a master's degree in counseling and now working in suicide prevention wow oh my gosh wow wow wow for a long time she's tried to contact mrs case to thank her but was never successful

when we heard j Jen's story we also wondered what happened to Mrs. Case. Right. With some research and luck we found her. Oh. It turns out the two women only live around 50 miles away from each other so we arranged for them to meet and you can see the reunion video on WBUR's website and at one point Jen says to Mrs. Case you weren't just doing your job you did it with kindness. So that's the story. Wow, that almost got me. That was really, that was emotional. Oh my God.

So that's the story of Michael and Susan Bear Carson trying to fuck up everybody's life, but some good still remains. Excuse me, that's the story of Mrs. Case and Jen. Exactly. Curveballing the entire story. Exactly. That was well done to the two of them a button a button on the end a nice little button on the end and i'm glad they found each other that's so sweet

i think that's and also shout out to whatever article that was for making the time to like go out there and find someone yeah and reunite them yasmin amer at wbur wow well done shout out at least that ended nicer i know despite the circumstances um let me see the the baby's the size of a baby hopefully because you're right it's supposed to be here by now i forgot that's oh a hydro jug the baby's actually the size of a house of an actual house yeah um let me see what it says on here i think the last i think we already read the last one which was uh it's been a while i think the baby is the size i mean was uh it's been a while i think the baby is the size i mean i think it's literally the pizza from teenage mutant ninja turtles so

like it's a big baby that's a big baby we're at kermit the frog no we're past kermit the frog cabbage patch kids doll i don't know i think we're at the size of a car get it out i guess i'm so upset right before the midwife appointment was like, that baby's coming out tonight. I was like hoping my blood pressure was through the roof. I wanted you to be in almost like danger zone for your blood. Honestly, Em was like, let's piss her off. And Eva was like, maybe let's not do that. I want the baby here so bad.

I know. Me too. And then you came back from your midwife appointment and she was like we can try but like it could still be up to three weeks and it's like oh so that sounds miserable to me some tea and eat some spicy food yeah even i we're gonna we're gonna come up with some sort of spicy food i got a yoga ball to sit on i mean we'll try we're gonna we're gonna get this baby out we'll see what we can do with enough with enough manifestation we will get it done manifest it but i mean by the time that this episode does come out there will be a baby so we will have had that's true we will have succeeded it will have worked eventually it's crazy that when

it comes down people are hearing this happen right now yeah well there's a whole other part of the story we don't even know about yet i know that's super fun how scary is that i think about things like that all the time i do too but the thing is thing is, this comes out on the, I think the 10th. So like it could, listen. No, it will, no. Okay, okay, okay. Cause I could still be pregnant. That week is when I would be in this.

You're not telling the truth. You're not telling the truth. Oh, I really hope not. I hope I'm lying. Check Instagram. It might be there. I don't know. It's gotta be.

Cause if it. You guys know before i do in this episode so like they probably hear us they're like the baby has already cried in a bunch of episodes like we already know what's going on or they're like uh stop stop i don't know they could just be telling us a little baby also i'm very excited to feel it move again later because that freak i touched its little foot earlier. Yeah. You were like, is that its foot? And I was like, yeah. We bumped foots.

I put my foot up on Christine's belly and we. I knew that was going to happen. And I didn't move away in time. I didn't do it hard. I know you didn't. Oh, baby, so sweet. So I'll eat something. I'll eat some ice cream and then you can.

We'll both eat some ice cream. Me and the baby. Yeah. And. That's why we drink.