And That's Why We Drink - E245 Napkin Hating Ghosts and an Immortal Pregnancy Portal

Episode Date: October 17, 2021

Our napkins are on the floor and our wigs are being ripped off by ghosts this week... episode 245 is a doozy! Em takes us to Scotland for the Ringcroft Poltergeist that not only includes some haunted��napkins and wigs but also flying chairs. Then Christine covers the wildly sad and brutal case of Moses Sithole aka the South African Strangler. And we hope this week you heed this warning, "thou shalt be troubled til Tuesday" -- our local demon... and that's why we drink! 

hi em do you miss me or are you like so glad you're gone um hmm that is you're taking way too long to answer this question i yes miss you i am mad at your baby so you are what i'm mad at the baby oh yeah i mean aren't we all at this point uh tell the folks what i had to hear listen everybody i mean i'm just gonna probably tell it better because they're more emotionally distraught about it i feel like you're emotionally you're more of a emotionally invested though so that's fair i was definitely we had a little bit of a I mean this is not a joke and literally canceled their flight it was Sunday and was scheduled to fly home and all of a sudden that morning I started having contractions and they were like back to back to back to back

and I was like are you fucking kidding me the second I'm about to literally I was like what I had to be at the airport at by three and at 250 I canceled my flight you were like well Christine we have to leave in an hour what are we doing and I was like shit I gotta like make up my mind now and I was like Em you can leave and I was like if this baby's coming tonight I'm not leaving like I you know I'll be here and I was like well that's I don't know I just felt terrible and then we went to the hospital because I was like well they're every two to three minutes like they're really they're felt pretty intense like I don know, that's just what the internet and your providers tell you is like, once they're five minutes, you know, and kept doing the quote from the office, like five to seven minutes. And, uh, well also Christine's were like at like four minutes. Some of them were at two minutes. And also she has such a high pain

tolerance that when she said, I think we should go to the hospital. I was like, Oh, the baby's going to be here in a hot second. I really worked myself up. And then of course, being me and being a patient, I was like, well, no, this has to be it. There's no question. Like, I'm just going to decide it right now. So we went to the hospital and they were like, um, well, you're on the way, but like, you're not quite there yet. And they sent us home and it was so disappointing. I had taken a picture of Christine and Blaze as like their last family pick of them was just two of them. And I plan on having a whole sleepover with Gio and walking him around and feeding him dinner and taking care of the house. Big plans we had. Also, you missed out

on some really delicious mac and cheese, Christine, because I my original plan. OK, so my mom always told me that if someone, you know know is like about to have a baby, if you are in their area or staying with them or something, the nicest thing you can do is like get rid of the other things that would be on their mind. Like no one wants to push out a baby and then come home to dishes in the sink. Right. And so I like a plan on like, oh, I'm going to be here all by myself. I'm like, I'm going to like have like Instacart send over a bunch of stuff. I'm going to make them some casseroles. I'm going to clean their house for them and as i was about to put in the instacart order you said i'm coming home and i went uh uh-huh so she's just not gonna get any i should

have waited i should have waited like 20 more minutes to tell you really like a good 90 minutes you would have had a hot fresh mac and cheese to walk home into oh it was such a disappointment i know and it was a few days ago so So then Em finally did leave. And now we've been convinced that like the moment Em leaves, the baby's going to be like, tricked you and show up. But I'm 39 weeks. I went to the doctor today and she was like, the midwife. And she was like, all right, you're chugging along. It could be any day now, any minute now.

And I was like, oh my God. So I'm once again having contractions. But I guess I'm in prodromal labor. Fun facts, everybody. Which is apparently a super fun thing that happens where you're just kind of in labor for days to weeks with it's already weeks I'm pretty sure it's been weeks uh yeah it has been and I I kept being like this must be Braxton Hicks but like no they're way too regular and intense so basically my body's just like this is fun but no baby for you as we were

doing the ads christine was like i am having a really bad contraction and i went take a minute do what so do we record mac and cheese no you you lost your mac and cheese privilege that baby that baby clearly doesn't want mac and cheese enough so anyway so it was a it was a anticlimactic but i got to see em for an extra day um which was great two days two days an extra two days and we had a i it was the best week ever it was the best week ever i'm so honestly like i'm not very good at being emotive but i just want to say thank you for to you and eva for making me feel so special and loved and happy. And it was just the best possible way to like. I had a blast. It was also fun to visit someone in a town that was kind of definitely a

smaller town than LA where like, it wasn't like there were all these events that I felt like we needed to race out the door to like, it had a very sleepy vibe. I mean, I was also literally with a pregnant woman, but like it was, it felt very much like, what do you want to do? Like, let's just go walk around target target it felt very much like being back in fredericksburg like nothing nothing like is really like expected of us you can just vibe and like i really like just sitting on the couch with you and just watching yeah we'd be like let's go out

to dinner and walk around downtown and uh we did we did two ghost tours. Yeah, Christine, who is supposed to be like resting, is like now did two different two-mile ghost tours. And then we walked all around a baseball game. It was crazy. To be fair, they were like, well, if you are having contractions, like just stay on your feet. And I was like, well, I fucking tried that.

It didn't do much. Yeah, we went to a baseball game. We went to two mini golfs. We went to a baseball game we went to uh two mini golfs we went to jungle gyms i'm got to see jungle gyms for the first a dream come true i tell you what and throw in two mini golf games at the end yeah so it was fun it was a lot of fun we watched a lot of reality tv oh my god we have a new show everybody oh and then i've never had like a show i don't think i know and it's also like not a new one i don't think no it's not we're very behind but it's called are you the one and uh let's just

say it's a game of strategy and by season two i had already created like a whole graph template on us like oh strategizing it was very it was very fun by like we had still had three episodes left and we already figured out all the answers it was pretty oh my gosh we this is not a joke so my brother and his girlfriend they were like have you seen are you the one and we were like nah and they were like it's so trashy you guys should check it out and so we were like all right and let's commit let's watch it tonight and oh my god in like three days we were already finishing season two we were like very invested and em was like step aside everybody and open a spreadsheet and there was like a spreadsheet happening and i was just it worked by the way so if you're ever if you're watching that

show it really was amazing because my spatial awareness like everyone knows it's terrible like directionally speaking but like my spatial awareness apparently extends to spreadsheets because i was staring at this going like you need to walk me through every column and row i don't get it like my brain doesn't but em had like like, I mean, just pages of like, it was amazing. Anyway, so Blaze would walk in and we'd be like, look at our spreadsheet. And he had to back out slowly. But it's a great. It was a Capricorn.

The second we said, look at our spreadsheet, he ended up staying. So we were fine. That's true. He did. He did find it suddenly more intriguing than he did before. But yeah, no. So it was, it's a wild show. It's very trash, but that's kind of the point. So it was uh it's a wild show it's very trash but

that's kind of the point so um it was a good time we had a good time um but yeah so thank you for coming in i missed you so much and it's not the same without you the cats and the dog just all they wanted to do was be around you the whole time i know i missed you also mooney and i finally met and we became friends that's so precious um yeah and also thank you for having contractions in the middle of my story because now if i make a joke and you don't laugh i'll just assume it's like the baby's fault i'll go like this and then you'll you'll just like blankly stare at me and be like sorry i'm having a contraction i sorry my whole body is wringing itself out i'm in slight pain right now okay so here's my um attempt at entertaining you and the baby while it's still nearby listen i'm living the dream i'm eating a cliff wire drinking some coffee

i'm having a good time so don't worry i think you're gonna like this story i wondered if i should keep it for halloween um and i no, because I was already halfway through my notes. I didn't want to start over. Also, it has a little bit of like a throwback to the Tooth Fairy episode, which is super fun. So, which I think we'll get there and then I'll do my little spiel. But this is, what is your favorite type of ghost story to hear christine i like cowboys is that not it no what's your favorite um on on the level of scary poltergeist yes oh

poltergeist scared the absolute bejesus out of me okay this is salute full check my story oh boy sounds a little too a little it can't be real i in my mind we don't find out but i can't you've in the recent weeks you've been starting all your stories with it's not real which is the defeats the whole purpose of our damn show it could totally i mean every ghost story i tell we just say it's real and everyone else can decide? It is honestly as real as the gospel. Because I already believe it. And I'm usually the skeptic of the group. Hey, well, there you have it.

It could not be more real. Okay. It is from 1696. 1695. Sorry. Those years were very different. So I would be careful. I know.

I need to watch what I say. 1695, and it is a story from Scotland, and it is called the Rincroft Poltergeist. Yuck. It is also known sometimes as the Rarick Poltergeist or the Mackie Poltergeist. Basically, it happened in 1695, but a year year later people really found out about the story because it was published once in london another in scotland but it was published in a pamphlet by alexander telfer and you're gonna remember telfer because he's part of the story actually so he ends up basically writing his own experience and this pamphlet called this is the longest

fucking title i've ever seen in my life by the way the pamphlet he wrote where this where he wrote the story in is called a true relation of an apparition expressions and actings of a spirit which infested the house of andrew mackie and the parish of rarick scotland in the year 1695 Sorry my audio cut out can you say it one more time? I mean like really like it was a log line. That is the title. Like that's like when people are like you're over you're really over explaining this. It's like when you have to hit the word count on an essay. Yes oh my god exactly you're using the thesaurus and like showing off all your vocabulary. and like showing off all your vocabulary so uh it was then so it started out in that pamphlet in 1696 a year after the actual story happened and then the story was republished in 1818 so a long

time later um in a book called memorable things that fell out within this island of Britain from 1638 to 1684. So it was like history you haven't heard of, basically. Yeah, I love that. Fun fact, I did not get a text back from you yesterday when I sent you a particular link. Oh, shoot. Yeah, I sent you something back and then I realized I never responded to your last thing. Because speaking of memorable things that fell out of history in an area,

at the same time doing these notes just found out about a memorable thing that fell out of history within my own hometown oh my god i'm looking at it now holy chronology should i read the title that of what m sent me sure yeah it's from the freelance star which once by the way featured emothy um and you and oh i guess i was in it too yeah but it's uh m's local paper and the title of this feature is called a doggone good time a look back at long ago dog marts oh my goodness oh my goodness oh my goodness i'm in love with this apparently dog marts were uh yikes i don't know how authentic this history truly is but it was when settlers and natives

it was like a trading mart for them and i guess i know i don't know how pleasant it actually was but the the story that we're running with apparently in this newspaper is that it was a place for the natives to trade furs and produce for settlers hunting dogs. Oh, wow. But then over time it became like a, it became basically like a dog auction for like people to like, and now it's, they still do it. They're bringing it back. I had never heard of this. And then Deirdre sent me this link. It was like, did either of us know about this?

And I guess it had like two big gaps where it stopped at different points. One was like World War II and then something else, but it officially ended in the eighties. Neither of us know about this. And I guess it had like two big gaps where it stopped at different points. One was like World War II and then something else. But it officially ended in the 80s. And now they're bringing it back as like a big dog show where there's like dogs who do tricks. And then you can also play a bunch of games. And there's like a huge adoption rescue foundation that's in charge of it, I think. Okay, so now it's like rescue dogs. It's not like we buy them for...

No, now I think it's like it's much not like we buy them for no now i think it's like a like it's much more ethical um that's fun but uh let me see there was some little it went through the whole timeline starting in the 1600s through the years like every year they have a different update this is wild which by the way i found out in this that 16 1698. You're not kidding. It started in 1698, back when Fredericksburg was called Leaseland. Whoa. And then I just wanted to read some of the little things that happened. Yeah. So at one point, by the way, like, I never heard about this.

And it got so big that there was, like, 15,000 people attending every year. It said that National Geographic did a spread on it yeah it was like bonnaroo but for dogs like how did it was um actually called bonnaroo in case we're wondering like how did i not know about this apparently it's like the biggest dog show or dog event in the country and still is or always held the title wow um even in the 30s i'm just passing this one according to time magazine which holy shit this was mentioned in time magazine 7 000 people and 642 dogs attended the event um i think in one of these there was a like the granddaughter like the dog granddaughter of the first mascot of Purina food was was like

celebrity was adopted there then they also said that there was um uh there was a dog that oh yeah National Geographic there was 12 to 15,000 people at one of them um there was a one of the dogs once he got adopted he ran off and then they did a whole spread about his like day in the woods before he got found and brought back home but they had like crazy competitions here they had like a boy's freckle contest and a girl's pigtail contest and then they had children literally climb street lamps covered in grease to like okay now i'm interested this is i was like it's so not okay for today's world but also i would have given anything to watch a bunch of children climbing grease poles like that would have been so fun remember when you said like

when would you go back to in time with the time machine i would just go to this dog fair and be like what the hell am i watching like apparently like this was like a massive thing and how on earth we never heard about this, I don't know, but, I mean, anyway, so, if you want to go look up the Fredericksburg Dog Mart, there's, like, a Wikipedia page, there's, apparently, it's in National Geographic and Time Magazine, so, like, one of the coolest things to come out of my town, or at least the ethical parts, I'm not sure about how bad the history was. i see native americans in virginia i get nervous um understandably still sounds pretty cool so anyway that was a complete um tangent but i saw memorable things that fell out of history you also wanted to call me up for not responding

to your text which is fair i thought that one was really gonna get you so let's get back to the poltergeist so the first time we ever heard about it was in this pamphlet. Then it was republished in 1818 in this memorable history book. And it is considered, quote, one of the well, it's considered one of the older spooky stories and, quote, must rank amongst the most remarkable in the annals of Scottish demonology. ooooh um so in 1695 this was in Rincroft Scotland which is in the parish of Rerwick which is why sometimes it's called the Rerwick Poltergeist um and it was on the

Mackie family farm which is why it's sometimes called the Mackie Poltergeist and so the family on this farm were was Andrew Mackie and his family apparently in this pamphlet they are mentioned a lot of times as, like, moral upstanding humans. Like, did not do anything that would have caused a demon to, like, show up in their home. And one day, it starts out hot.

So one day, Andrew found that all of his cattle had broken out of their bindings. And he thought that maybe they had bitten out of them or wriggled out of them, but it was weird that every single one had basically fled the bone. Yeah. Like they all suddenly gained the skill to wriggle out of their bindings at once. Yeah.

And so he ended up bringing all the cattle back in and he tied them up with stronger tethers and tighter knots. But the same thing happened the very next day. So this time, Andrew decided he was just going to move all the cows from one barn to another and just tie them up there because he thought maybe the barn was due. I don't know. He just was trying out a new thing, I guess. Yeah. And so the next morning he woke up thinking okay these cows are all going to be tied up in the barn but uh now there was one cow who had not only been wriggled out of his bindings

but was tied with new tethers outside of the farmhouse like almost as like a fuck you of like the tethers had been lifted off of whatever post he was on and then the cow got drug out and then tied to a different thing outside right right like the top the bindings are not the problem here right but he had got and the cow had gotten tied up so tight and so on a post so high that he was still kicking in the air like the cow had been lifted off of the ground but that's like the paranormal part of like who the fuck lifted a cow and like it's now just like hanging like for for you to find so that was when andrew was like what the fuck is going on it's not like someone's just like

like cow tipping in the middle of the night they're like literally someone lifted a cow in the air and it's like hanging from a tree or something oh my god so um that was all very odd and then very quickly after that they also started having some other experiences within their own house for example the mackie family woke up to smoke one night and realized that their house was on fire somehow in the middle of the night i guess a large pile of like peat which is like i think some sort of compost uh it was placed in the middle of the house where it's like who the fuck brought it in but also why was it directly in the center of the house and then it mysteriously caught on fire by itself oh no this is very poltergeisty all of this and very quick like this guy went

from nothing going wrong to a cow hanging in the trees or something zero to 300 like now his house is on fire yeah so soon after this the family also started noticing that items were moving on their own and the most constant symptom of this activity was that rocks out of fucking nowhere were getting pelted at them even inside the house oh that's always so weird when the rocks somehow get in the house yeah and it's like they would materialize out of nowhere like you'd be in a room double check that there were no rocks take a take a sigh of relief and then a rock hits you in the face can you imagine every time you want to like read a chapter of your book by the fire, you have to check for rocks first just to make sure you don't get pelted in the face. But then have the paranoia of knowing that it will still hit you even though there's no rock.

So apparently the rocks getting thrown would be even worse on Sundays, which is kind of creepy like a day of rest um and when they were praying the rocks would especially like to target the person who was doing the place not good um by this time like weeks had passed and this activity was plaguing the family even the kids were getting hit with rocks now um the kids thought that they were even seeing things including what they thought was a man wrapped up in a blanket by the fireplace um and i guess one of the kids actually was brave enough to try to talk to it or approach it and it ended up being just a stool by the fireplace with a blanket draped over it but nobody had done that so it either feels like someone in the family is a really mean prankster while everyone's already

on edge or this thing used household items to almost freak you out yeah intentionally wanted you to think someone to appear as something else yeah that being said all the activity including the rock throwing is still happening the kids are saying that they're seeing things and eventually uh andrew decides he's going to seek out the local minister named alexander telfair who is the guy who ends up writing the pamphlet a year later so uh telfair was able to tell the Mackeys that he was not surprised that this stuff was happening because the McNaught family, the family who lived there before the Mackeys did, also said that the property was cursed. So they I guess the McNaughts, as soon as they moved onto the property, they said that it was just full of bad luck. All of their health declined. The crops weren't turning up.

It was just their farm was not doing well. And I guess in one account, which was also the pamphlet also said this, so I'm just going to assume this is the truth of it. A few of the articles had different versions, so I'm not really sure which one to follow but i'm just going to stick with the pamphlet um once the mcnaught family realized that the farm was cursed they had their oldest son go out to a local psychic and the psychic said oh yeah that farm is for sure cursed um and the oh i like how she just knew this information like yeah for sure like wasn't going to warn anyone who lived there um and so she said the only way to break the curse was that they had to find this stone in the front of the house and they had to pull it up because underneath the stone was a tooth and the family

would have to burn it to get rid of the bad luck which is very tooth fairy vibes because that whole thing the whole reason the tooth fairy became a thing was you had to bury someone's teeth or burn it or get rid of it in some way or throw them on the roof or throw them on the roof or feed them to your dog it would destroy them in some way so that there would be no bad luck interesting which is interesting because that was this is a old-time european and that was when the tooth fairy legends when like the tooth fables all kind of came out so uh it was just interesting that i just covered the tooth fairy and now i'm seeing it in a in action love that so uh basically different accounts say different things,

but the gist that I was able to catch on to was that the family listened to the psychic. They did go to the front of the house and they did find a tooth there. So in the pamphlet, it said that there was some, I guess this, instead of the son going straight from the psychic back home to destroy the tooth the sun ended up like on the way back home got recruited by the military and so it's like very

got recruited by the military so he had like a friend like pass on the message for him like go to his dad's house and like say like oh yeah this is what he got recruited by the military and they're like and we're leaving right now yes that's right it does not make sense but apparently he was like here's a bindle since you didn't pack one since you were going home like what are you talking about it was like now that you're being like shipped off to sea or something i i don't know but he also had time to like go find somebody who would like be passing through town and get the message to his dad. So anyway, it doesn't make much sense, but the way that that story goes is when the friend went to go tell the

message to the McNaught family that, Oh yeah, the psychic says you have to destroy it too. Which by the way, can you imagine if you're a member of that farm and you're waiting for your son to come back and now there's a random person saying your son was deployed in the last like five hours. And also you have to destroy a two thunder.

Like you'd be like, this person is on something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where did you hide? You kidnapped my child, I think, because you're not well. So, but what ended up happening in like the final like nail in the coffin of, oh, the farm is cursed is when the guy, when the friend went to the McNaught farm to tell them, oh, you have to destroy the tooth to break the curse. By the time he got there, Mr. McNaught had died from a mysterious illness or something. So it was just kind of like, oh, they were right.

It was still haunted or cursed or whatever. So anyway, that was the story that he ended up telling the mackie family of like oh yeah people have died on the property this place is super cursed apparently the tooth was at some point destroyed but we don't know by who um so but the people who destroyed the tooth said that there was no longer any bad energy here but maybe now that you're a new family it became this whole kind of like maybe it's cursed maybe it's not so right i don't think i don't think telfer the minister telling them the story i don't think telfer expected the place to still be cursed because as far as he knew the tooth had been destroyed so he was only going to stay there just to tell them the story and like maybe do a

prayer with them but while he was there, some rocks ended up getting thrown out of nowhere and the family freaked out. And so he was like, okay, like I'll, you know, I'll stay with you. Yeah, so he ended up saying that he would stay with the family overnight. And so even though he had only seen a couple of rocks get thrown,

he wasn't really shaken yet. But when he prayed a second time, all of a sudden he was getting hit with rocks. And on top of that, it wasn't just rocks anymore. Now there was like this staff or cane or something inside the house that was now floating on its own and just whacking him in the head. So he was like, there's nothing here. But now he's praying and there's like a cane hitting him in the head. So he was like, there's nothing here, but now he's praying and there's like a cane hitting him in the face. I like the ghost of Ebony the Scrooge is like wandering around, being violent unnecessarily.

Well, apparently it was coming down on him so hard that the family could hear the swings coming down at him. So now there's a staff floating around apparently it was also hitting the furniture and banging on the floorboards at night um and again this was happening most often when people were praying and since he's a minister he was really getting the brunt of it he's like that's all i do is pray i don't know how to live any other way after the rocks and the staff are now the constant and Telfair's living with them, apparently the Mackies and Telfair also started experiencing a phantom hand going around and hitting them,

pushing them, poking them, tugging on their clothes, ripping at their hair. Telfair says that he felt it for the first time while he was mid-prayer. And when he looked at it, it was literally like just a disembodied hand on him. Ew. And then it vanished when Telfair noticed it. Ew, ew, ew. And then the family started seeing a little boy wandering around the house who apparently was around 14, and he wore gray clothes,

including a bonnet on his head, which is so stylish. Very – couldn't be more tan france i hope there was a french tuck involved and uh neighbors who would even stop by after hearing what was going on they would start getting assaulted now and rocks were starting to hit them and the staff was starting to beat them and the family was waking up with bruises and scratches on them. They had blankets getting pulled off them. They were getting pulled out of bed. Apparently, one of them had their hair grabbed so hard

that they felt unseen nails on the skin. Like someone had grabbed for all their hair on their head. They also heard whistling in the middle of the night. No thanks. their hair on the head they also heard whistling in the middle of the night no thanks and the family was truly just getting dragged all around their house their clothes were getting grabbed at furniture was flying around apparently it would even shake so much that the house itself would shake um the furniture would shake that the house so much that the house would shake um there was banging on the roofs and in the walls and i I guess at one point Telfair was like,

this is too much. This is too big for just me. And so he ended up calling in two other ministers to help him. And by this point, Telfair is now calling this entity The Trouble. That's the worst, creepiest name ever. It's like that's not helping anyone, T sounds like a horror movie so when they showed up the activity kelsepreeze got much worse

now that there's three ministers in this house and uh the activity was definitely more directed at them what i thought was funny was one of the first things that happened to one of these new ministers when they came in was during prayer their wigs got ripped off and then whenever they were trying to eat dinner their napkins would get yanked away i like that it's like you're not gonna look respectful your civility is gone yeah no wigs no napkins um apparently it wasn't that the napkin itself was getting ripped away but rocks from out of nowhere were being thrown into their napkin so it was being flown off away from them or something like that they wanted the napkins it was something about napkins this ghost had a real issue with that they were getting away from

um so which makes me think by the way that none of the mackie family uses napkins like for them to all of a sudden have a problem with them when ministers got well isn't it the 1600s did people use napkins i feel like that wasn't like a very common maybe it was like anyway but maybe the thing like in your pocket your jacket a handkerchief a handkerchief maybe i don't know yeah that could be because i feel like it wasn't like oh let's get the paper towels out yeah i feel like true i don't think they had bounty around um but yeah i don't know maybe i imagine farmers didn't have like handkerchiefs but maybe like ministers would i don't i don't know yeah maybe the guys with the wigs were just a little too fancy for this ghost they really you know get the hell out please so uh so they were also getting pelted with rocks but apparently the rocks that were

coming at them were larger than any other rocks before and they were being quote hurled with superhuman force oh um i could kill you oh apparently one of the the two ministers was now having um bleeding from the head because he'd been getting hit so many times. And the other was having several bouts of mysterious strokes. Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, that's bad. Real bad.

It gets even worse because now instead of throwing rocks, we have upgraded to fireballs. Wait, what? we have upgraded to fireballs. Wait, what? So apparently there's like that peat that they found in the middle of the house that like randomly caught on fire. So now that's happening all the time, but now it's also flying around like the rocks.

Fucking fantastic. And catching everything in the house on fire. Why not? Why not? I mean, at this point, I would be surprised if fireballs getting thrown around the house weren't catching things on fire. not um why not i mean at this point i would be surprised if fireballs getting thrown around the house weren't catching things on that's a very good point it would have been weirder that way yeah if it just extinguished itself yeah um it was like never mind but can you

imagine being a like every time you turn around like if the rocks are getting thrown around that constantly and now they're on fucking fire imagine the stress level you're at like you are always walking on eggshells and you're having strokes every five minutes you're like this is people are bleeding from the head like your house is shaking your kids are seeing a little boy you're getting your head your hair ripped out and now everywhere you can't even wear my wig you can't even use a napkin is on the floor now you've got like greasy fingers and you just you're dancing around looking for something i can't wipe it in my wig because i just have to put it in my hair oh gross can you imagine if someone used their wig as their napkin i'm telling you it would have been better than your own hair they could wash that thing true greaser life so

uh telfair called in even more ministers which means now rocks are getting thrown even harder. Learn from your past, my friend. Bring in a town troublemaker or something. Yeah, bring someone in that the demon can relate to. Yeah, exactly. He's clearly intimidated by the amount of ministers. So as soon as he brought in in more ministers more rocks were getting thrown around so hard now that the house is shaking some of them are flying into the walls like getting

thrown so hard that they're breaking the walls um and as soon as uh oh and then during all of this andrew mackie's wife finds a floorboard that was loose and when she lifts it up she found the remains of a body she found at least seven bones um apparently the pamphlet said there was also some flesh left over which like how fucking old was that flesh and how did it retain any image um and then something else but it was all wrapped up in like paper packaging like How did it retain any image of flesh? And then something else, but it was all wrapped up in like paper packaging. Like,

so she ends up bringing it to Telfair. But I guess once she lifted it out of the ground, it was technically disturbed remains. And so it only pissed this thing off even more. And it seemed to cause just even more angry fireballs throughout the house. So now it's even throwing rocks that are so hot that they're catching the bedsheets on fire. At one point, there was a fireball that got thrown at the kids while they were sleeping and the bedsheets caught on fire. There was the staff who could forget this cane that's still floating around. I can't forget it.

It was thrown near the kids so hard that it broke and stuck into the wall. It was thrown near the kids so hard that it broke and stuck into the wall. And the neighbors who were still coming in to check on them, which, by the way, neighbors of the fucking year. Honest to God. Or just like so nosy. Okay. Actually, now all of a sudden I relate to these guys. Yeah.

I'm like, I probably would be like, I'm just checking in. What's up? I brought a casserole. I would literally only bring a casserole to see if it would fly across the room when I gave them napkins to eat them with. I would go to the party store and buy a wig and be like, what happens if I show up with a wig on? Well, so the neighbors who were there, they were also getting stones thrown at them. And the next morning, by the way, this is really burying a lead. And like, I don't get any more information out of it um at some point as the neighbors are getting pelted with rocks um the next morning andrew finds

a letter that is quote both written and sealed in blood and then that's it that's all you fucking hear i was like sealed in blood sealed and like now blood dried blood is holding this letter apparently written in that is repulsive I well I don't understand I feel like I missed a big paragraph of an article or something but like the all I could see from like the writing of the letter was that it was complete gibberish I mean it might have been another literal language that i just don't know maybe it was like what is what's the language in scotland don't ask me okay it's not celtic that's or gaelic that's that's irish right i believe gaelic is irish okay everyone don't ask me okay i'm so sorry i'm a stupid american um but the yeah i but so whatever was written there i could not not, I, it literally

did not make any sense to me. I saw the word Scotland in there, which makes me think they are actually full sentences and I just couldn't read the rest of it. Um, and it was written in blood, written and sealed. Oh God. Um, so Telfair and the other ministers that were with him, they are now, they go into house to pray, and they bring that letter and the bone fragments that the wife found. They bring both of them together to go into the house to pray, and they all get assaulted during the prayer. This is when the Mackie family finally decides that they're going to leave the house.

Okay. All right. Finally. finally decides that they're gonna leave the house okay all right finally but as soon as they leave the house which like lets you know that there's some like weird poltergeisty attachment situation happening as soon as they leave the neighbors and the ministers are all like nothing's happening here like there's no activity oh and the and the mackies took that as like oh problem solved and so they just moved right back in. No, no, no.

They moved right back in. It was like they were gone for like maybe three days. No. Too easy. They come back. And of course, the family keeps getting hit with rocks and fire. And now they're starting to hear this entity. And so whenever it throws fire at them, says quote take that till you get more okay

that sounds like a good song take that till you get more oh hang on a second let's we'll put that on the album that we that we release our album that we're yeah working on right now by the way we're totally doing a paranormal spooky album oh by the way, speaking of paranormal spooky albums, I know we already knew this, but I'm allowing myself to still be mind blown anyway. About ZB? About ZB. But have you,

there's one song that Allison and I recently started listening to unironically because it's so ridiculous. Hang on. Spotify. I'm like trying to find it last minute because i was not planning how did you both find it well well because i told her i was like so zach bagans we were on a road trip or drive we were in la traffic probably that's our road trip um and we we had nothing to do and so i was like when were you on a road? We were just stuck in good old fashioned traffic. And I was like, Oh, you know, like Zach Bagans has like an album, which like, it's not really an album. It feels like someone else used a bunch of his clips and put them in front of music. But, um, there's one called, uh, Oh God. The album I think is called

Necro fusion, right? Do you know this? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So there's one that we love, and I forget what. I think it's the one called Immortal Portal. Oh, for God's sake. It's so funny because he, I'm going to completely butcher it, but it's the one wherever he talks about Rhonda or, like, a spirit named Rhonda. If you go find that, that's the one I'm going to completely butcher it, but it's the one wherever he talks about Rhonda or like a spirit named Rhonda. If you go find that, that's the one I'm talking about.

Because it's just his, he's like clearly talking into like a spirit box or he's doing some sort of like EVP session. And that's the audio clip that they use on top of this like really like headbang-y like goth emo. Yeah, he does like hardcore, like it's like not even house music it's like full-on techno like hardcore yeah it's something weird yeah yeah but so the the audio is like him trying to get a response out of a out of a spirit and the way that he reacts to it he at the end he goes holy shit and then there's like this crazy head-banging music after what why didn't you immediately send me this my feelings are hurt i'm sorry we'll listen to it he at the end he goes holy shit and then there's like this crazy headbanging music after what why didn't you immediately send me this my feelings are hurt i'm sorry we'll listen to it afterwards but uh just if you go i think it's immortal portal please go listen to it and it's

like me and alice it's like one of our favorite songs because it's just so wacky well you know my uh doula said oh you should prepare a, you and Blaze should prepare an album, like a playlist. Do not have your baby come into this. Literally, you are the immortal portal, by the way. So please don't put your baby through that. Oh my God, but can you imagine? Oh my God.

You are literally, your body is literally a portal for someone on the other side to come into this side. And if you play Immortal portal while that's happening that's your baby will for sure come out as a demon we keep joking the baby will be ronda holy shit holy shit ronda's here okay anyway um please go listen to a mortal portal that's anyway so that's on zach's album our album is coming out soon it's called uh what's it take that till you get more yeah so that till you get more holy shit okay so the so then to catch you up because wow what a

tangent is they have come back things are worse than ever and now they're hearing voices while they're getting rocks and fire thrown at them love it so um this is now late april and this all started in february so this is now months of this shit happening um and now the worst begins these last couple of days are the worst of it all because now the worst now the like what's a fireball anymore so andrew now is waking up to voices and this voice is now saying uh thou shalt be troubled until tuesday which basically says like i'm only i'm only here for a couple more days i'm sorry i'm overstaying my welcome but the end is in sight or it's like the demons, like even I'm fucking bored. Yeah. Yeah. So thou shalt be troubled till Tuesday. And Andrew, I guess, speaks back to the voice and says, like, who are you?

What do you want? Basically, this voice tells him that this entity was sent by God to warn everyone to repent for their sins. LOL. Or else he will come back a hundred times worse for everybody okay but like he seems pretty damn evil already yeah what's a hundred times worse like everything doesn't let you pray so like why is he sent from god that doesn't make sense uh-huh well they do say that like doesn't the demon pretend to be oh so we're thinking he's the full he's full of shit like he's lying yes because then he says the quote at the end of all this he says praise me and i will whistle to you worship me and i will trouble you no more and ah worship me got it okay so basically saying like oh like yeah like you know pray to me and so and also god is so totally cool

with this don't even worry for sure signed off on he signed off yeah um and andrew basically says no i love god i'm not gonna be tempted by satan and then the next day the house is set on fire seven times in a row oh my god um so um so big day for andrew but also like kind of a normal day at this point but also just the average like your typical typical tuesday so uh the next day after it caught on fire seven times in a row it caught on fire again but this time every time a part of the house was extinguished another part would immediately catch on fire annoying so it was just like whack-a-mole all day but your house is catching on fire if you lose the game horribly annoying um so this led to actually the part of the house like at this point so many parts

of this house have been caught on fire for months like it was down to happen but on this day part of the house collapses right um and then the next night one of andrew's kids gets pulled out of bed and apparently like up a tree what and here's the voice of this spirit saying, if I had commission, I would brain them. And he kept saying commission in another conversation with, in that conversation with Andrew of like, oh,

I have commission. Like I have approval from God. So scary. If I had commission or if I had approval from God, I would brain them. I would. Oh my God. So like, scary if i had commission or if i had approval from god i would brain them i would oh my god so like and therapy was not widely uh accessible in 1695 so this poor child yeah um so now the kids are getting dragged around and hearing that they're they would get killed if this thing had

the ability to um still all these fires the house is collapsing the the rocks are still getting thrown everywhere the cane's getting thrown everywhere um the house is still shaking the furniture's flying everywhere and the neighbors are getting assaulted and the minister now now requests that other townspeople join them in prayer because they're going to have they're going to create like i don't know guinness world records biggest prayer circle and just like hope that that does something um so they have all the neighbors come over which like if you were that nosy neighbor who just wanted to be in on the drama and now you're getting like swept into this like prayer situation i'd be so over it

um i'd be like i just wanted to know i didn't want to be involved no i didn't ask for this so the everyone starts praying together um apparently rocks and now mud are getting thrown at them by unseen hands all of them at one time while they're praying apparently a lot of them get grabbed or literally lifted off the ground eventually some of them start noticing that while they're praying there is a massive black fog materializing in the corner of the room and it flies out of the house and it catches the shed on fire. But after this event, the activity never came back.

Oh. And so I guess this was like the world's first exorcism or something. I don't know. Or just like that big of a prayer circle did something. So eventually the house, nothing, no more activity came from it, but it was in such disrepair after all of this

that the Macie family moved away and today the property has nothing on it but there is one lone tree there that i guess marks where the location of the house used to be and so just as quickly as it showed up in our lives it fucking left and some think that the activity was just Mackie's kids like like pranking gone wrong and they had to like keep it up but imagine being a kid and you're like now I'm throwing fireballs up dad like now I'm hanging myself in a tree like so a lot of people try to say it was like the kids or like the voices people were hearing was like ventriloquism or um or that they were just like little pyromaniacs and

like had to blame it on something else so um some say that the activity actually came from andrew mackie himself being involved in witchcraft which if you think about it it was 1695 and that was around the witch trial area. Others say that the whole story is fake and was used as a scare tactic because it was literally in a pamphlet written by a minister. So they think like, oh, it's just a scare tactic to convert people to religion, especially during witchcraft era. And that being said, though, it was for a long time. And I guess, depending on who you talk to, is still considered a legitimate source on demonology because there were so many ministers and eyewitnesses who vouched for it, according to the pamphlet. quote saying be sober be vigilant because your adversary the devil as a roaring lion waketh about seeking whom he may devour whom resist steadfast in the faith so oh those are big heavy-headed words there especially for someone who is uh looking for proof of god and

spirituality and all that so anyway just it most people say it's probably just a an allegory or some sort of anecdote written by a minister to convert people but oh well that sucks anyway that is the story of the rancroft slash rarick slash mackie poltergeist that's fascinating i mean i feel like even if say it's exaggerated and like only like an eighth of it were true even that would be wild like even so I mean I know that's probably no matter what probably been exaggerated over time because like that's a lot to have happened but like I don't know even if there's a kernel of truth to something like that I feel like that's pretty crazy I I do think that I mean I guess at this point it's been, uh, so many years,

there's no one to talk to who's been there. It was literally from before the 1700s, but, uh, but yeah, no, I mean someone at some point, like when it was written in 1696,

I would think people at least in 1697 had heard of it. Like, I wonder if it was more fake then because less people could vouch for it versus now maybe it's even more real because we it's gone down in history yeah yeah i don't know and i wonder how much is real like there's no way that it's still completely accurate after sure centuries exactly but then again a lot of that information came straight from the pamphlet from it was written the year after so maybe it was actually shockingly accurate maybe some of it was true yeah i don't know wow fascinating well thank you m i'm poltergeist really do freak me out um one of the stories

i think this was the one tour we went on without eva or i don't remember if it was the one with her with without eva but one of them they talked about a no it was the one with eva where the guy um talked about how the oh we talked about this even last episode but how the pictures on the walls all flipped toward the wall yeah everything was gathered in the middle of the room like that shit is was that cincinnati or the kentucky one that was a cincinnati. That was the one he said. The ghost tour. Yeah. He said we were downtown.

That was downtown where that woman was killed. And then the radio host guy lived in her old apartment and came home from a two day work trip. And like all his pictures on the walls had been flipped towards that, which is almost creepier than them. Like, oh, I just have such me too. I'm thinking about that every time. than them like oh i just have such me too i'm thinking about that every time um just because like it's not like somehow like the wire or string broke and it fell off and you can you can't justify it lifting off the nail to turn around and then flip around yeah and like what is the mean like the symbolism or message behind that is so creepy too yeah it's like either we are

to uh not we're not enough in the know to understand what it means or the only point of it was just to it freak you out intentionally like there's no other reason it doesn't sound friendly it could mean like it doesn't want your like if your friends and family are the ones in the pictures like maybe it doesn't want you to look at them or doesn't want them to look at you they don't matter yeah i don't know something creepy stuff um yeah poltergeist shit is spooky um wait till there's a poltergeist uh cowboy then i will be on board i keep looking for one for you like it's at some point i promise i will do my best at the very my next birthday maybe they'll give you like i need to to know like what a cowboy adjacent is. Like, what if it's a horse poltergeist or like, what if it's like a, like a, I don't know.

I don't know if there's going to be a full cowboy poltergeist. All right, fine. We'll, we'll, uh, we'll let the masses find, find out for us. If anyone knows of a cowboy poltergeist i will cover it i just have yet to see one okay let me mark my contraction all right god every five minutes and 50 seconds right now every minute and 55 seconds five minutes and 50 christine schieffer i thought for i was like get in the car well apparently they told me it doesn't matter what the timing they were like oh the timing between them doesn't really matter as

much and I'm like why does everyone act like it's the most important thing then and then of course they keep saying the thing of oh you'll know and it's like well obviously not because I already went in and they were like you're wrong it would be very cool if your water broke on the show though like talk about like a full circle like, starting the show as strangers. And now, like, your literal water is breaking. Every time you say that, I'm like, wow. That would be mind-blowing. It would be crazy.

I'm going to FaceTime you immediately. Because the whole time Em was here, it was like, did your water break? Like, I would literally go to the bathroom and walk in and, like, look at Em. And they'd be like, did your water break? I'm like, no. You would hear me. I would tell you. Trust me me i was very excited especially i wanted it too i would have loved that i kept like anytime we were watching that reality show which by the way was hours of our lives we'll

never so many hours the last few hours you have left of peace and quiet you chose to watch like an mtv reality show with me and nothing i had my face like fully on christine's belly the whole time trying to pep talk this baby out i was like you can do it i my pep talk and was like get the fuck out of there i was like you do not want to start on the wrong foot with i'm trying every tactic i'm trying like positive reinforcement negative reinforcement like at one point she got the hint because she kicked me in the face. Directly. Directly.

I was like, give me a little kick. And I was like, you're going to regret this. And then bam. The baby went crack a pillow right in my nose. I was like, wow. Okay. So you hear me and yet you're still not leaving. Why?

Okay. Well, I have a story for you today and it's just fucking awful so i apologize for that um is it a two-parter or is it it's a one-parter good i get all the trauma and one fell but it'll be over by the end of it it'll be over uh great until next week when there's a new one but this as far as i know right now, is a one-parter. And this is the case of Moses Sitole, otherwise known as the South African Strangler. Oh, okay. Yeah.

So he has a little nickname. He's also known as being responsible for the ABC murders. ABC murders? Why ABC? I guess I'll find out. You'll find out. Okay. So the last nickname of the ABC Murders is actually maybe not the most helpful. So we're going to kind of leave that aside because it's actually also the name of a novel published by Agatha Christie in 1936.

Oh. The ABC Murders. So just side note that that's a completely separate thing i was gonna say so it's completely not about this it's not about that so usually the south african strangler is probably more specific like just him nickname so december 4th 1997 moses satole was found guilty of 38 murders and 40 rapes. Whoa. Yeah.

Yeah. 38 murders and 40 rapes? Yeah. So that guy is, like, not coming out of jail. Yeah, he's in trouble. Oh, my God. He did a bad thing. A lot of bad things. He was sentenced to jail for, if this answers your question, 2,410 years.

2,000 what? 1,000? 2,410. 2,410. sentenced to jail for if this answers your question 2410 years 2000 what 100 2410 2410 i like how they just threw the extra decade on there just like while we're at it like i think 2400 years is enough there's no estimating yeah we're just gonna be very specific yeah so 2410 years um and the sad other sad part is a significant number of his victims were never identified so this is just all that we know about which so really no total justice exactly like we don't know even what the full extent of it was um so there's not a lot about this online um and there's again not a lot about the victims like there were so many and so many of them are kind of have flown under the radar so we're just going to try to get as much info as possible but um it was hard to find you know really yeah how did you if if it's

hard to find online how did you find well i mean there's definitely information online but it's just like you know they say like 40 victims and like not all of those people are given you know full profile like we don't sure we just don't know as much as maybe you would know about like someone with five victims yeah right well yeah like a more well i don't know documented or i don't know if it's because of the number of victims or if it's because it's just not as covered as some other stories. I'm not really sure, but there's only certain victims that we get like a full picture of and then not everybody. So let's see.

Moses Sotole, he was born November 17th. That is a Scorpio, isn't it? Well, no comment. No comment. November 17th, 1964 in Voslouris Transvaal. Oh, also this is in South Africa. And fun fact, not the easiest dialect for me or not the easiest pronunciation. So if I'm screwing things up, I did look up everything on YouTube.

So hopefully I'm saying it right. But if not, I apologize. Okay. up everything on YouTube, so hopefully I'm saying it right, but if not, I apologize. Okay. So the Transvaal province of apartheid South Africa has one of five children, two, Simon and Sophie Satole. When he was five, his father passed away, and so with his mom, Sophie, as a single mom unable to support her children, she left all of the kids at a local police station, and they were from then on homed in an orphanage in KwaZulu-Natal but after three years of what was described as systematic abuse Moses ran away to live with his eldest brother Patrick where he

made a living working in the gold mines of Johannesburg so tough start yeah it seems to be a pattern started rough okay yeah so as he's working in the gold mines he's also working other small Started rough. Okay. Yeah. Seems like a good thing, obviously. And he had this kind of caring personality that made him, let's just say, very attractive to a lot of women. Because he had this seemingly empathetic approach to life. And I guess, let's say, it was deceiving. I mean, so far he sounds like, the organizations and that, at least, he sounds like a good person. Yeah, it sounds like he suffered a lot and then like came out of it and said, like, I'll help other people who suffered. Right. And then like, no, not even a little bit.

And then, yeah, okay. I don't know what happened or if he was lying the whole time. I don't know. You really could have gone a lot of directions in terms of setting the story. And I could have fallen for this guy real quick. So I'm glad that you didn't do that. Yes.

And we've watched enough reality shows recently to kind of be wary of our initial assessments of people. That's quite true. That is quite true. So I will say from my perspective, and like, I don't know, you'll get a better perspective soon. But from my perspective, this is all a bunch, like all a front. This is a front for him to lure people in who find him empathetic and caring. Got it.

Okay. And he kind of uses his business, quote unquote, to like lure people in. So I think this is all a front, which is almost scarier that you would like intentionally be so empathetic yeah that he knows what yes what he is capable of and yet he's still choosing a different route yes and he's pretending because like his his if his argument would be like oh well i suffered i want to help people who suffered and it's like oh well you're aware that you're self-aware enough exactly and you know what you know what they must have gone through and you're still like it's worth it you're like oh i'm self-aware enough to know this is what i should be doing or could be doing but i don't want to so i'm just gonna he strikes me he strikes me as one of those people who's like oh i suffered and i'm fine look at me and

it's like yeah look at you dude like it's making other people suffer right exactly so that's exactly the kind of vibe i'm getting from this it's a little unclear but that's kind of my theory um so this seemingly caring behavior made him attractive to women he was actually known to be sexually active starting really young and as soon as women would begin a relationship with him he became pretty aggressive and often violent so his relationships were short-lived um psychological analysts have seen his behavior towards women as a backlash toward his mother uh for abandoning him so that's one of the theories is that like he he just viewed women as like an extension of his mother i mean

it's a very classic like freudian situation here yeah um that's one of the theories and so according to one article by nicole guison in 1987 satole committed his first sexual assault he convinced his girlfriend's sister to take a walk with him once they were out of sight and where no one could hear them satole attacked her her name was patricia cumalo she was 29 years old and um although this is the first documented victim a lot of people most people believe there were more victims before this that we just don't know about so okay so she's like technically assault one yes exactly uh in theory so moses had a routine uh he would lure these women usually between age 18 and 45 in broad daylight offering them desk jobs at his organization at his like helping youths get

off the street and so he would offer them a job and then he would assault them yeah i feel like that's also a pretty common thing too of like now you're you've got this power the power situation going on where it's like i'll fire you if you don't a dynamic well they'd never he would like say oh i'll i'll get you a job come to my business and then he would attack like there never was a job he would like use that as an excuse which is like come be in his office alone with him uh-huh okay and I think that's still horrible oh it's horrible and I think that's why my theory is like oh he uses business because it's so it's disarming to say oh I have a business where I'm helping kids

why don't you come help work for me and he was very charming apparently and so he'd say like I'm doing this awesome thing come help me and. And very disarming. And then, yeah, 180. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So Moses's string of rapes didn't come to a halt until February 1989 when he threatened a young woman named Uyesua Doris Swakamisa with a South African machete. And that's actually called a panga. But so he basically took a machete and uh threatened her and um according to vocal media she did not report the attack until three months later when she saw him again standing outside her new workplace oh shit she was like that's the guy that almost attacked me now i'm going to go report this yeah now he knows where i where i am again yeah like where i work

and he's clearly either following her or trying to threaten her. Who knows? So she reported him to the police and he was imprisoned in Boxburg prison for six years, although he maintained his innocence during the trial. He was in prison for four years and then he was released for good behavior in 1993. And during his imprisonment, Sottoli met and began exchanging letters with a woman named Martha. Ah, okay. So Martha, when he was released, allowed him to move in with her and her family. Oh, Martha.

Martha, Martha, Martha. Martha. Girl. Girl. And that was in Pretoria in 1993. in pretoria in 1993 uh and that means and that means the rest of everything that happens is in the next four years because he ends up getting charged or oh my god he has such a good memory how do you remember that so actually when you tell stories i try to remember the year because i try to i know you usually start stories by telling me the ending first. Yeah. And so then when you tell me like when the first incident happens, I think in terms of like.

Look at you. I don't know if it's. You're right. 1997. It's honestly like in terms of just like podcasting business. I just think of how long the episode might sound if you say like, oh, and in 97, he was, you know, sentenced to X, Y, Z. But the story starts in like the 30s. I'm like, oh, we got 60 years of story to cover. It's never gonna stop talking, I guess. It's it's just a way for me to mentally prepare how long my to keep my attention span running. Oh, great. Okay,

so now you've only got four years worth of attention span for me. No, no, no, no, it's I didn't word that right. but i do think in terms of like oh i've got this many years to like keep track of so okay well you did a good job because thank you but then again remember there were 40 40 murders so even though yeah i know this is about to be a jam-packed four years it's a doozy of a four-year period uh-huh yeah yes so exactly he was released for good behavior 93 and then as you as you so astutely recall uh 97 when when he gets back in there yes astute so martha martha martha martha lets him move in in pretoria with her and her family and murderpedia describes the uh the lesson that moses learned in jail which is just this is this

is kind of a summation of the next four years for him the lesson he learned in jail was that quote rape victims left alive can produce consequences oh what okay well you just kind of told me the story well i told you up front with 40 murders and 38 rapes. You sure did. But yikes. Now that I know that like there was. So he is now going into every rape, not just as like, oh, I'm going to do this horrible thing. And then impulsively also kill them.

It's like, I'm going into this with the intention of they will be done. And they're not coming out alive. Yeah. Which is just so fucking dark and horrible. Okay yes so that is exactly that's the turning point that happened for him in this first prison stint where he was like oh that woman that i left alive spotted me again and turned me in and that's how i ended up here so next time there can be no witnesses left alive um yeah terrible so uh no one knows for sure when he began raping women again, but alarm bells were raised when between January and April of 1995, four bodies of young black

women had been found strangled and raped in a town west of Pretoria, which again is where he's living now with Martha. And quickly after those women were found, more rapes and murders were reported in the same town. It's called Adderidgeville. And unfortunately, however, the media didn't do much to cover the case. As the police continued to discover more dead bodies and realize an MO was forming amongst the victims, they realized they were probably dealing with a serial killer. And so to put their theory to the test, the Pretoria Murder and Robbery Unit, is what they were called, created a team specifically established to work on this pattern of murders, uncover whether they were dealing with one or more murderers, and track down the serial killer. So the murders themselves were very brutal.

I already. Well, didn't you say it was strangling? Yeah, he was the South African strangler always terrible basically the MO involved raping the victim tying them up and strangling them with their own underwear oh my god holy shit yeah and so pretty quickly they were like yeah

as we suspected this is a serial killer because the MO remains the same across the board and then oh gosh the body of the two-year-old son of one of the victims was also discovered oh my god and that incited further media coverage but even that was short-lived so it was sort of like that's probably one of the reasons this case isn't as detailed online as it just wasn't covered as thoroughly as it probably should have been in the media um whether that was because the victims were black or what i'm not positive but that's kind of usually

where my mind goes with something like this yeah um so the media coverage even when the two-year-old son was found was pretty limited that's wild yeah it should be the first it's baffling right like what also like do we know anything psychologically about why he picked someone with a baby or was that like he needed it was almost like he needed a new fix or something you know i'm not sure um i'm i feel like that's totally like a complete a completely it's just like that's an extra thing to have my assumption was just this she happened to have a kid with her and he was like well it's another witness is my guess because he was his whole thing was getting rid of witnesses i didn't know if he had like all of a

sudden like just killing women wasn't enough and so i mean i don't think so because that was the only one um okay so i don't think that was like an escalation that went on i think that just was one of the things that added media coverage when there was like none um so yeah i'm not positive but it doesn't seem to happen again so wow um according to various articles over time police noted that whoever was doing this was evolving their murder technique to extract the greatest pain from their victims, which always gets me, assumedly increasing their own pleasure by doing so. The killer's means of approach was also clarified

because in a significant number of cases, the victim had been apparently meeting someone who had promised them a job. So this is the same thing again, where he's saying, oh, I have a job for you. Why don't we meet up? And he hasn't tried a new strategy at all. Yeah.

This one seems to be working for him. So he keeps doing that. And so people who knew the victims would say like, Oh yeah, she was on her way to a new job meeting. So it was also reported that in some of the murders, the killer would later call the victim's families just to taunt them for fun. That's sick.

Sickening on top of everything else. By the way, I know I'm not saying anything new, but like that's just like a whole extra level of twisted. It is. It is completely. So September 16th, 95, a police officer who had been out hunting rabbits was suddenly hit with an awful smell. And it turns out he had stumbled upon a mass grave. Oh. Yeah.

Whoa. So when this grave was discovered, it led to more mass graves being discovered nearby. And one of them contained 10 bodies with varying degrees of decomposition. So he had been going out to the same spot over and over and very which like by the way like if i i mean again clearly i don't think like a killer but like if i were to kill like i would live in constant fear if i picked the woods as the burial ground of hunters like and hikers like people are out in the woods all the goddamn time. It's not as secluded as you think. I mean,

I feel mixed about this because I feel like there are so many times where people do go missing in wooded areas and they're just not found for decades because if you know the place to go, it can be really secluded. I guess he didn't know the right place. Well, he did because he ended up putting 40 bodies there before anybody found it oh you know what i mean well there were multiple

mass graves and uh-huh this one this one alone had 10 bodies so clearly i guess he was on for a while it was working for what i would just i would just live in fear i mean literally but also i think put a body anywhere i know but one of the I just read a book about uh about psychopaths they don't really feel that fear there's not like a fear there it's like you know what I mean there's not really a guilt there's not a fear like we don't have that same mindset in that one way only it must be nice of like right just constant anxiety yeah it's sort of like an overpowering like oh i'm i'm good enough to not get caught sort of attitude um and so i think i think they wouldn't sit in that fear they would be like well i guess it's fair everyone's too dumb to figure me out um yeah

yikes big yikes so he found this mass grave, and then nearby there were several more. And comparing the bodies, police quickly knew this was the same person, obviously. And this is when we have a new character alert. It's a woman named Mickey Pistorius, and she was South Africa's first ever profiler. The first woman in her field, and the aunt to a convicted murderer named Oscar Pistorius. So she is quite a character.

Her nephew is a convicted murderer. She's the first woman in her field of profiling and she's South Africa's first ever profiler. So she's like a big hitter. I wonder which came first, her nephew being a killer and then her first ever profiler so she's like a big hitter i wonder which came first her her nephew being a killer and then her becoming a profiler or her becoming a profile and awkwardly having to study her own nephew i'm pretty sure the crime came first i remember i read a profile on her this was now weeks ago since we're prepping everything in advance so i'm like totally it didn't write it

down but um yeah it was an interesting story how she kind of got into the field but the case had now turned into a case of national security because of the serial killer and so the president at the time you may have heard of him his name is nelson mandela he's pretty pretty well known bloke um he visited the site where the bodies were found and pleaded for people to help with the investigation and stop the killer once and for all and this is now when the media storm finally blows up and uh locals are terrified it's obvious that they're the south african police had never dealt with someone working on such a massive scale and now um local authorities are under like massive amounts of pressure to get this solved so they bring a retired fbi profiler named robert

on the case uh so wrestler arrived in september of 95 so he and now pistole mickey pistorius are like a duo like working side by side to try and figure this shit out which is power couple potential power couple i mean at least in a career way. I don't know. Okay. I'm not here to speak on their romantic interests, but at least on a career front, they are a power duo. Love it. Yeah. So, let's see. He assisted with the development of a

profile of the serial killer, and they decided that the killer was an intelligent, organized individual with a high sex drive, operating with a growing sense of confidence, and perhaps with the assistance of a second killer. So they weren't sure if it was one or two people. Interesting. Yeah, I thought that was kind of interesting, too.

So as Ressler and Pistorius were profiling this killer, as well as investigating the site, they found some new critical information. One of the women who was found, her name was Amelia Rapotele. Okay, I tried so hard to find the pronunciation of this name. Rapotele, I think it's pronounced, had been spotted going to an appointment to see a man called Moses Satole on September 7th. So somebody she told, this guy's name is Moses moses sitole and this person remembered that name thank god interesting he would use his real name i thought so too yeah maybe it's his growing confidence they said he had he just didn't give a shit i don't know i guess so yeah or yeah i'm

surprised too so doing some digging into this authorities were able to find the job application and offer and they found that amelia was not the first victim to have been offered a job by this man, Moses Satoli. Wow, this feels almost like a really easy case once they had his name. Once this one break happens, exactly. Yeah, it seems like they really got everything they needed all at once. Oh, Moses is just out here offering a bunch of women random jobs. Uh-huh. Yeah.

So as soon as they were confident that he was a suspect, they tried to locate him. But at first they had trouble finding him. Unfortunately, while this is happening and they're trying to figure out where he is, he's continuing to hunt and murder women. The next body they found was that of Agnes Mabouli on October 3rd of 95. And strangely that day, a newspaper called the star received a call from a man who claimed to be the one responsible for the murders and when they dug into his identity he claimed to be able or he seemed to be able to provide details about the murders that weren't public knowledge which is always like kind of a big red flag um and so when they hear this they're

like okay i think we found him. So they set up a meeting with the caller, but he never showed up. Uh, so it's weird. It's like, they weren't, we're still unclear whether that was him because he never showed up. Sure. But like, he seemed to know a lot about the murders that weren't public. So yeah, it's at least fishy. It is.

It's for sure at least fishy. Like, why would he be doing that just because he's so confident and like cocky i guess if he's taunting the families maybe he just taunting the newspaper i don't know yeah it has to be something about his there's got to be some i'm guessing some sort of narcissistic tendency there of like i can like get away with literal murder and might as well even give you some information the attention for it yeah i might as well literally feed you information since you're so stupid you can't figure it out on your own or something yeah i don't know it's so weird because

like we don't know if it was him or if it was a prank call but i imagine it must have been him can you imagine if it was a prank call though and that guy was just like weirdly accurate about shit like just like knew the secret information yeah exactly just like spewing bullshit and like actually kind of nailed it on the head like now he's like whoa it was a joke everybody i was teasing which it's like not a funny joke but yeah um yeah so you're right i think it's probably him and he i mean since he was taunting the families all the time like he maybe he just had like some fucking attitude problem and was like i want attention so at this point they're like all right this is the guy um so that so the when the guy didn't show up um they the police released a wanted newscast looking for moses sitole so now publicly they're telling the world like we need to find this guy moses satoli um so during

this time moses had been in touch with his brother-in-law looking to get a gun for protection so in the call the brother-in-law agreed to meet with satoli and he's like yeah i have a gun for you and then as soon as he hung up he called the police and was like i'm meeting with him to give him a gun right so i know where he is which where he is, which is like, whoa, what a badass. I'm thank God. What about us? And also like, I like how the gun is quote for protection when we all probably know, like the gun is maybe the strangling is good.

It's not about to be strangling anymore. Protection. Wait a second. Like who do you need from? Yeah. Right. So the brother-in-law is like, sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. I'll meet up with you. And then he calls the police and it's like, we're meeting on this street corner or whatever.

So according to... Way to go. I know. Thank God. So according to an article on Vocal Media, Sotoli's brother-in-law said, okay, let's meet at a factory. And they secretly... So the police then...

This is like a fun little heist situation. Not a heist, but like a fun little like... A quest, an adventure. Yeah, like an adventure. A secret little, a secret little plan. You know I love a secret little plan. I love a secret little plan. So they're like, all right, we're meeting at this factory.

And the police are like, great. So we're going to replace the normal security guard with a police officer who looks like a normal security guard. So that he doesn't think the police are there and so when satoli arrived he became kind of uneasy and attempted to flee and the police officer was ready for this so he took chase and apparently satoli obviously didn't have his gun for protection yet but he did have an axe um oh what is he four are you i know i know he I know, I know. He had an axe. Why not? So he swung at the police officer. And in response, the officer fired his gun and hit him in the leg and stomach.

So he has now been incapacitated. He is transferred to the military hospital in Pretoria, where he's treated and eventually confessed to the murders and admitted to police. He thought there was a copycat murderer at large who was using his M.O people which i imagine probably ticked him off of like someone else is using my i don't know whatever whatever um so five days later on october 23rd 95 moses satoli was charged with 29 murders and on november 3rd he was transported back to boxburg prison where he had served that initial rape sentence like a few years ago home sweet home home sweet home they remember him well yep uh during this time press reports stated that he was hiv positive and his trial began october 21st 96 with the charges against him being 38 counts of murder, 40 counts of rape, and 6 counts of robbery. He pleaded not guilty to all of them.

Okay. Okay, guy. Yeah, right. Also, did he end up dying? Did it ever turn into AIDS? No. I don't believe so. I mean, random question.

I first originally got super mad that he clearly had HIV and was spreading it to women. But then in my mind, I was like, oh, and he's killing them anyway. So I don't know. Right. True. Fair point. I mean, fair point. Because if they were surviving and now he's also just, like, knowingly spreading HIV to people.

To, like, 50 people or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't believe it. Well, I will get there in a few bullets, actually. Okay, okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no don't believe it. Well, I will get there in a few bullets, actually. Okay, okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, you're good.

It's a fair question, especially, like, I mean, we all remember the fake HIV fucking report from, what's her name's story? Horrible, horrible, horrible. Okay, so the prosecution had a pretty straightforward case, obviously, and with a collection of witnesses, including some of the early rape victims that he didn't kill, like that woman, Bui Suakamisa. It made for a really morbid trial with each murder and rape victim. They went through Moses's tactics of luring women in with his employment offers when actually he was priming them for murder. They also went through evidence of how each of the victims was found and how they were murdered. So it was like just very graphic,

very brutal, probably very traumatizing to sit in on, especially if you were one of the early victims and then you had to watch. Are you kidding? Yeah, of course. Everybody after you. I mean,

horrifying, horrifying. So December 3rd of 96, according to crime and investigation, the prosecution introduced a video that had been shot during satoli's initial incarceration in which he candidly admitted to 29 murders he described his technique in detail although he claims that he began killing only in july of 1995 selecting his victims for their resemblance to the rape victim uyiswa doris Swakamisa, whom he regarded as responsible for his first jail

sentence. So to describe that in a more clear way, that first woman, Uyiswa, who was the one who called him out a few months later and had him sent to prison, he said he killed all these other people as revenge against her because they looked like her. And can you imagine the guilt that to be put on you? Yeah. It's like, I mean,

it's bullshit. It's bullshit. But can you imagine hearing that and being like, wait, what? Yeah. Putting that on me. Yeah,

exactly. And so if anyone ever, sorry, side note, but if anyone ever confidently said that they killed 29 people, I'd be like, that's so confident that I feel like that's like there's i feel like you're saying that too confidently because there's actually a bigger there's more to the story that's the one you're that's the

amount you're comfortable he's like sure yeah 29 let's go with that right and it's like i feel like if you say 29 i'm just gonna immediately assume 50 like just double it right just because like you need to at some point feel shame like that's right no you're a psychopath again they don't feel that and in my head i i would feel some sort of well you would i would a normal i didn't even do anything and i feel shame yeah so anyway yeah so his his whole excuse now is like oh well they looked a lot like uh this this woman who sent me to prison four years ago or to jail four years ago. So that's why I did it.

And it's like, that's the worst excuse ever. It's not even an excuse, but like, what are you talking about? So he said they resembled her and that's why. And so they there was a delay because this tape, the legality of whether it was allowed to be introduced as evidence was questioned. And because they weren't sure if it was recorded because it was recorded illegally in a jail cell. So they were like, is that admissible or not? So there was somewhat of a delay. But finally, the judge was like, yeah, fuck it.

It's admissible. It's part of the evidence. Thank God. OK, so the prosecution rested its case August 15th of 97. And the defense's whole standpoint was that Sotole didn't have anything to do with these incidents. So this is his defense team is arguing. He had nothing to do with these incidents because he was innocent. I know.

I forgot to tell you that part. And that changes everything. I this whole time thought he was guilty. Yeah, I know. It's hard. It's right. Like, it's really tricky. It's very complex

i'm glad i have you on my side to lead the way and say guess what his lawyer says well he's not guilty why because he isn't so they're like oh shit no wonder okay so that was literally all they had there was nothing they had to present to be like oh oh, he had an alibi or he's a good guy. There was like nothing they had. So obviously that didn't bode well for him. He also took the stand, which didn't end well for him either because he just went on rambling and incoherent statements. Didn't help him any. So December 4th of 97, this was more than a year after the case had commenced.

Moses Satooli was found guilty on all charges uh it is said that because of the sheer amounts of counts he was being charged for it took three hours to read the verdict whoa because of the three hours yeah wow so like for each victim it would be like what he was found guilty of how long he was being sentenced for horrifying so uh his verdict was so long that the sentencing had to be postponed until the next day and the following morning the judge despite commenting that he had no issue in sentencing satoli to death actually sentenced him to 2410 years in prison but don't worry he has the possibility of parole in 930 years. Okay.

We'll see. That's funny. I know, isn't that wild? It's like, thanks. Very silly that they even gave him a chance. Thanks. You have a little bit of parole. I always wonder, like, what if they, like, develop some technology

and all of a sudden we are alive for, like, 3,000 years? I think about that, too. I'm like, what if all of a sudden time really means nothing? But I guess that's why they do it. They're like, we'll stick to 2,000 years and hopefully. Honestly, if you can't, like, actually, I was about to say, and it sounds tasteless, so never mind. I was going to say, like, if you survive 2,000 years, like, at that point, like, go on and be free. But, like, nah.

Like, at that point, let's make it 4 but like nah like at that point let's make it 4 000 years let's go to 2410 and then we'll talk maybe around 5 000 since we threw that extra decade in last time we might as well just double the whole thing just do another yeah why not just throw another century on next time i would say that's our call um yeah when you're that nasty let's just keep adding years until time actually does stand still. I'm fine with that, yeah. I'm glad we're on the same page. So, Sotoli was put in Pretoria Central Prison, where, shocker, he is still serving time to this day.

It is said that because he's in prison and has access to good treatment, this is kind of back to your question earlier, his HAV condition is being treated better than it would have been if he was out of prison so he has access to better care now than he would presumably if he were out of prison so according to true crime south africa quote outrageously police allegedly did not inform moses's common law wife martha of his hiv status and she had to find out from a newspaper article that's what i was afraid of that's someone someone got it got to someone yes and uh unfortunately she and her daughter were both tested and were also found to be hiv positive oh his daughter too yeah i know why does this keep happening in these stories where they're just like oops we forgot

it's like also i mean this is like i don't know maybe it's not neither here nor there but is was he ever casually just plain old-fashioned cheating on his wife and just sleeping with someone and walking away or was every time he had sex ending and killing you know i don't actually know and there were so many victims that like because there were uh there were so many, there were dozens. And it's like, that's the 40 rapes are all we know about. But most people believe there are more. So it's like hard to believe he would even have time to be having an wondering if there's anybody else that could have, it could have spread to someone else. Right. Who's alive. Yeah. There's, there's no info on that, that I could find. But it is a fair question for sure.

Cause right. That would have lasting impact obviously too. For sure. So anyway, that's the story of Moses Satole. Pretty fucked up. I'm sorry. I actually was going to record that one last week, but then you came to town and I was like, I'm going to switch it up and make it like not this one for

a really person I was worried that once I showed up and like I was like maybe she has to do her notes tonight and I completely threw that wrench no no it's fine I I thankfully was prepared to do a separate one um and flip them so I because I was like gonna do this one and then as I was reading it the day before I was like this is just gonna be. And then as I was reading it the day before, I was like, this is just going to be, I mean, they're always a downer. Don't get me wrong, but like, just this one's heavy. I had to do, I was doing my notes on, uh, in the hotel. Cause I, so I saw you straight from Denver.

Right. And so when I was in the Denver hotel, I had like some late night thing I'd already signed up for and I ended up having to cancel last minute. Cause I was like, if I don't do my notes in this hotel room, I'm never going to get them done in front of Christine. So we never do. So, but in that moment I was thinking too, like, Oh my God, like I'm not giving her any warning that she needs to do her notes in advance. And if I say anything, it's going to be so obvious what's happening. Anyway, we figured it out. We figured it out. figured listen we always do okay we always wing it somehow or another always by the skin of our teeth yeah we always do so 100 um well since it's 39 weeks technically do you have a different size of your baby or is it just the size of a baby

no because this time it's 39 weeks now but when this comes out you maybe the size of a much bigger will hopefully be here please dear god i don't think it's it'll even be possible at that point um it won't even be the size of a newborn baby it'll just be a baby right this correct exactly so we'll see check instagram i don't know if i'll post on there but if i do that's where it'll be so yeah it's probably weird for people to hear this once the baby's already i know we're just living in la la it's probably weird for me to hear yeah i don't know it's gonna be trippy this is probably the trippiest of like future past things in my life anyway so look i told you this

year you would meet your children and you had all the things to say about it. And now we're proving it right. To be fair, last year I tried and it really didn't work for me. Okay, fair. So I don't want to get my hopes up. 2021 is the year. 2021 is the year. You called it this year.

It's the year of sandwiches and the year of babies. So, oh man, we did have some, we had a fried chicken sandwich. We had some sandwiches. We had some good sandwiches. If anyone's wondering learned christine loves loves a good bagel sandwich i mean i already do that but it's carried over to contend on the last day i kind of did kind of ruin em's life by getting like a trout salad and horseradish bagel sandwich i was like you want me out of here i get it i want the baby out i'm trying anything anyway well i uh i'm glad that you're i i'm speaking i'm manifesting this but by the time this comes out i'm so happy to know that your baby is here

and healthy and a bouncing little babe and i'm so sweet and so cute and i've seen the pictures on instagram looks amazing oh you've seen more than pictures on instagram you'll probably be facetiming me as I'm like. I feel like I've seen a video of your cervix or something at this point. Okay. Well, that's all I've got. Me too, man. Okay.

What are you going to order for lunch? Great question. Well, here it's dinner time almost. So great question. Maybe some Thai. What about you? I'm looking obviously at the factory. I'm looking at the factory.

The CF. The CF. Big CF. Maybe I'll change my mind and do that too. Well, me and my future full belly of cheesecake wish you and everyone listening a pleasant week. I hope you all have a great week and you are loved and are safe and you're loved and drink some water you're loved wanted safe yes and hydrated okay and that's why we drink