And That's Why We Drink - E248 Paranormal Preschool Gossip and June's Podcast Calendar Models

Episode Date: November 7, 2021

Does labor feel like being shot in the stomach? Tune in to Christine's last episode before Leona's arrival!! Em finishes their series on the Perron Family of the real life events behind the Conjuring movie. Then, big trigger warning, because Christine covers a German serial killer so gruesome we're not really sure what to do with ourselves, so Em tries to take the slightest bit of solace in listening to Christine speak German... and that's why we drink! 

now can i go yes christine hi christine just lovely how are you doing i hope at least one piece of glass shattered somewhere in the world when they heard that sound. Or a dog howled, maybe? Well, yesterday I lit a candle in my room and I guess I didn't pay enough attention that the wick had moved, like, really far to the glass. And all of a sudden I heard this shattering and the glass had literally exploded. Christine, I literally said yesterday I would like to see a glass explode. Oh my god, you did! And I was in my bed. That's's right and i was in my bed and i

heard this like huge crack and like the glass the giant glass piece went missing i like i like was under my bed looking for it keep in mind i'm like 40 weeks pregnant i was looking for this this is the last like you're about to have a baby you can no longer just have big missing chunks of glass floating around your house. I was like, this is dangerous. And I mean, I was like, I'm usually pretty cautious about my candle usage because, you know, things can go wrong. But I was like, oh, I didn't realize like, and the problem is this candle, it had a glass, but then the outside of it was paper, like with like a lid. And I was like, so the glass shattered. So now it's just paper.

And I was like, that's going to go up in flames like lid and I was like so the glass shattered so now it's just paper and I was like that's gonna go up in flames like god I was in the room so just a warning everybody be careful out there because um anyway speaking of glass shattering so maybe that was you in the future like singing and it reached back in time you know I love when there's a time travel situation it could be it could be that I was so high pitched that it went back into the past to show like bounced against a wormhole and came back and like hurt me that totally now explains all the times glass has ever shattered in any story it was just m singing it was all just me great wow what a long-winded tangent to start this episode uh hi everybody welcome to is it november yes dude this is like like November 7th, I think.

Brr, it's cold out, huh? You're in Los Angeles, okay, friend? And it's still September, but you know, whatever. Well, it probably will be cold, and it seems far away now. It's like five weeks from when we're recording this. it's September 28th and I fun fact I think I don't want to jinx it but I think I may be in early labor because last night or I'm just still in this stupid prodromal labor thing but last night I started having contractions like one in the morning and usually I go to sleep and it like goes away by morning but like they wouldn't I couldn't fall asleep and then every time I would fall asleep it would like wake me back up but then by like 6 a.m. I was so tired that I would fall asleep and then start dreaming.

Like I would like, so I started dreaming that I was getting shot in the stomach. Okay. Well, like I would wake up and be like, I've been shot. And then I was like, oh no, I'm just having a contraction. But it like kept happening every time I had a contraction. And so I kept just over and over dreaming. I was getting, oh, no, I'm just having a contraction. But it like kept happening every time I had a contraction. And so I kept just over and over dreaming. I was kidding. It was really horrible.

Good to know from my own notes that apparently early labor contractions feel like getting shot in the stomach. I don't think it does. I think it was just, yeah, my subconscious trying to explain like, no, you can keep sleeping. We'll just pretend you got shot in the stomach. I'm like, can you come up with something slightly less traumatizing? Jeez. So I did not sleep. I'm a little flustered. Is that why we had to record later?

Do you need to take a little nap? Yeah, I did. Literally, I fall asleep. I woke up. I was like, oh, my God, we're supposed to record in 10 minutes. So that's my bad. Look, there's no one who understands a nap better than me. Yeah, I don't. I'm not a nap person. So when Christine needs to take a nap, there's no one who understands a nap better than me. Yeah, I'm not a nap person.

So when Christine needs to take a nap, there's something's wrong in the world. Okay, well, no pressure. Just a race to the finish line this episode is. I'm just saying, like, I'm fine right now. But, I mean, all night. And then I woke up and was like, they're still happening. And that's never happened before. Holy, didn't they tell you to go to the hospital once you can't sleep through your contractions yeah but like i could if you can't like if you

can't bear it then they're like go in but it's not and you were like i've been shot 20 times tonight we're fine i can bear it well my doula just texted me because i sent her that text at the morning at like 7 30 i was like i keep dreaming i'm getting shot in the stomach it was like a very alarming thing to send um and she just texted me and was like, Oh, I just realized your text said, getting shot in the stomach. I thought you said you were getting like a COVID shot in the stomach. And she's like, what you said was a lot scarier. Sorry, I didn't react. It's like, nobody cares that I keep dreaming this horrible nightmare. Anyway, so who knows, but we're a november episode in which is very impressive yeah hey folks we made it to november that's the best thing you might be able to do

why do you drink em um apparently i'm hanging out with someone who uh has been shot a bunch of times and a baby baby's coming out and uh i don't i why do i why do i drink um i just i don't know i'm in a i'm in a spell where like i just don't want to get anything done like basic self-care tasks like i still haven't unpacked my suitcase from when i saw you and like it's just sitting in the corner that's a lot though i never unpack the suitcase it takes so much work it takes so much dirty clothes in there you don't want to because it's not just unpacking it's unpacking and the laundry then they have it unfolded then they're hanging it on it's in all the memories of not being with me anymore it's just really depressing and then i and then i pull it out of

the dryer but then it's wet again from my tears yeah you cry into them and need to watch them all i just weep at the thought of them not smelling like you anymore um but yeah so i'm just i'm just staring at a lot of unfinished very simple tasks that i've now built into like a weekend of events the good news is when we do record these though like because i i definitely understand that feeling and get that way a lot too the good news is when we do record an episode it does feel very satisfying of like i got a big task done today so even if you don't end up doing the laundry like at least you know we got like a week's worth of work done basically on this episode but then i'm i but also today we're recording on tuesday so after this i've got tea time tuesday oh yeah you do have that don't you

but then i've got the then i can say i've gotten two big tasks those are big tasks yeah but then i officially really clock out for the day mentally and like don't do anything so then allison's gonna be like can you just because like she does she doesn't mean it in a mean way and she's never directly said this but I'm sure in her mind it looks like you just had an hour-long conversation with your friend and we're on Instagram like can you clean up the room and for me I'm like yeah and in my mind I'm like it took so much energy to do those two things no it's a lot of work it is I feel like it's hard to explain but it's definitely a lot of a lot of it's taxing takes a toll uh-huh yeah yeah it does anyway that's why i drink i've just got a lot of things that i should get done won't so i mean i never

found that piece of glass on the floor for what it's worth it's still down there might fall out tonight you gotta get that i know i'm gonna make blaze get down there i was like i can't crawl under the bed but i literally don't fit so someone else is gonna have to go down there also i feel bad hopefully the kitty cats didn't find it and they're like swatting it around probably like carrying it around yeah um i'll keep an eye out that's a good point there that feels like a geo thing to like have a there allison once had a dog that like found a light bulb and they like it was carrying it around like glass side in the mouth. And every time they would try to like get the light bulb out, they would just hear it kind of crack a little more.

Oh my God, that's terrible. I feel like I vaguely remember that story and it just sparks like every anxiety in my body. Oh my God, of all things to carry. I can't imagine. But so anytime I imagine a piece of glass and an animal i just think of that poor that's the cracking sound well moonshine drowns all of his toy not even his toys like anything he finds on the ground so i need to check their water bowl because if it's filled with glass i'm gonna also you need to check really like swat around in there

because it's clear you might not even see it and all the last thing i need is one of them to swallow it by accident oh lord oh lord just when moonshine and i became friends too like that would be really inconvenient wreak some havoc okay so here's here's where we left off for all my uh for all my people that were here for halloween because i left you on quite a cliffhanger. I can't wait. This was a scary story. I felt good about it because I was nervous about the Halloween episode. I think we both were because we wanted to deliver in terms of like an actual like spooky ooky story. Right. But like obviously early on in this podcast, I really just like ran through the classic like most famous haunting stories. Right. So the fact that this one slipped through the cracks is really a blessing.

So I'm, I'm trying to take advantage of it next Halloween. I can't promise. No, we'll figure it out. But, but so anyway, for those of you who need the refresher,

this is the story of the Harrisville farmhouse, AKA the Perrin family haunting guest starring the Warrens, which is how I figured out that I hadn't covered the story yet so um just a recap this is a a house in Rhode Island and it's a family of five girls and the parents the mom is getting uh completely taunted by this one spirit is having like really bad dreams of this woman with a neck that's snapped off chanting at her and telling her to get out of the house oh she has sticks for hands by the way sticks for somebody does i don't know yeah she has sticks for hands you're

right you're right and they think this might be uh one one spirit in particular and meanwhile she's not telling her five children about this and the five children are also not telling their mom stuff is happening to us too and they have all right apparitions they're hanging out with all these spirits are talking to but now they're also getting dragged out of their rooms in the middle of the night the beds are levitating they're getting trapped in stuff it's very scary stuff yeah it is really it really freaked me out that up that half of the story and uh once it was getting really bad the mom had an experience where after a dream like that she felt that she got stabbed in the leg or something um so she felt like she got stabbed and after that it was almost as if all the spirits in the house were draining

her of energy and she's slowly withering away so now she's doing research on the house and finds out that there were several deaths in this house um including the potential murder of a baby uh by the neighbor named Bathsheba Sherman and I did say last time too I was like I don't know if it's Bathsheba Sherman in the in real life that might have just been the character in the conjuring but the the name I heard more and more often in the sources was bathsheba thayer which is her maiden name i guess even harder to say she doesn't make it easy that no she really what if she combined them like you know modern day bathsheba thayer sherman oh my god long one i'd be like i'm calling you bath that's probably in a b so and also uh one thing i wanted you to remember last week which like this

isn't a super big thing in the story but it's just my favorite element to it um that you kind of noted on was there are some ghosts that like are following their own past blueprint it's like they're like looking out the window, but there's no window there anymore. So they're looking at the wall. Yeah, terrifying. And I just wanted you to remember that because I wanted to talk about it later for funsies.

So, and the last place I left you was in the middle of the mom, Carolyn, doing all of this research. She ended up finding an ad in the paper for two brothers to investigate the house named keith and carl right and the thing that really convinced them that this was a demon was as soon as one of them said oh you should like ask jesus for help they they've been talking about religion he said oh maybe you should call out to jesus A window that had been warped open, slammed shut by itself and made the whole house shake.

And that's when Keith knew it was a demon. So around the same time as this, one of the family friends of the parents had gone to an event for the Warrens and Lorraine Warren. And so I guess my original thought was that the parents, the parents reached out to the Warrens looking for help, but they actually never reached out for help. The Warrens heard about them through their family friend. Oh, okay. So the family friend went to one of their events and said, you got to check out their house. It's super creepy. And I think the Warrens, I don't know if they had yet done anything with Amityville.

I forget what year Amityville was, but this was the early 70s i don't know if they had yet done anything with amityville i forget what year amityville was but this was the the early 70s okay but they were still becoming pretty big as like paranormal experts so uh after some initial discussions the warrens did come to the house apparently from one source uh the husband of the family roger did not like when they came to the house because they allegedly brought an entourage with them groupies so the Warrens did show up though and when they did the kids were so excited to finally tell people that would listen to them what was going on and they had some traumatic shit going on I mean they did there was even one entity that they won't discuss to this day because it was apparently a very evil male entity and there were five little girls aka you

do the math heinous heinous um and we don't officially know what happened i'm just going off of that quote so uh yeah apparently ed would just like kneel down to them and be like okay what's going on and they would just like spill their guts. Which I can't imagine the relief of finally getting to talk to somebody who might be able to help or at least believes you. Who believes you, right. They've been keeping that secret for so long. Yeah. So the Warrens decided that they were going to show up the night before Halloween because they thought that would be the best chance for activities since the veil would be thinnest. And then the daughters in later interviews were like, they really could

have shown up any day. Like the activity was so bad. Like it didn't matter what day it was. They didn't celebrate the holidays, these ghosts. They just be around. And in hindsight, what's interesting is you usually hear people say like, oh, the Warrens really helped us or, you know, but the family does say they do think the Warrens Even 40 years later, Lorraine Warren and the eldest sister of the Perrin family named Andrea. They ran into each other for I think they were both working on The Conjuring or they had both gotten invited to a premiere, an early premiere of The Conjuring. What a party that must have been. Yeah. mirror of the conjuring what a party that must have been yeah and so they bumped into each other uh and lorraine even told her uh 40 years later ed and i quote ed and i were in over our heads as soon as we crossed the threshold and we just didn't know it yet wow oh so she like she gets

it too she's like yeah you're right she's like we did not totally help so they later the pair or the warrens later even called the parent family haunting quote the most compelling most intense and most disturbing and most significant haunting that they ever investigated in their career oh wow yeah so while walking through the house lorraine came into one of the rooms and lowered her head. And she said, I sense a malignant presence in this house. And her name is Bathsheba. Without having had any of the research done that that Carrie had done. So she just called that name out of nowhere. It's not even like a normal like we see a medium and they're like, it starts either an r or a j it's like bath sheba that's a confident answer yeah and a

and a really unique one so lorraine was still walking around the house and walked into the parent uh the master bedroom where the parents slept and this is where the mom was having all these crazy dreams and this this crooked neck like woman all of a sudden was like chanting at her and maybe stabbed her in the leg. Lorraine said this was the room where Bathsheba killed the baby. Oh, no. And that is where most of the activity was. So it makes sense that something that dark would happen. Oh, no.

activity was so it would make sense that something that dark would happen oh no uh they also said that they could tell right away based on carolyn's behavior that there was something attached to her and apparently apparently she was oppressed which is the first which is the step before being possessed oh okay so they were saying you're a're oppressed. And so the next step would be possession. We have to step in now. So they said they needed to do a seance in the conjuring. It's an exorcism, but apparently they only did a seance. The reasoning I couldn't find like a solid reason. But on one source, I saw that they wouldn't do an exorcism because the family wasn't religious or super religious or whatever. And also the Warrens weren't exorcists, so they couldn't officially do it.

So they just did a seance. And I guess the whole thing backfired because, well, first the Ed told the kids, Ed Warren told the kids like, okay, go upstairs. Like you don't need to see this. And Andrea and another one of the sisters snuck back down because they were like no like you just told us that they're gonna do something sneaky like we want to watch so they snuck back down and then because of that they were able to report what

happened good and so the warrens and uh carolyn and roger perrin they circle together i think they also had a medium with them and again just like the rest of the story if you listen to last week's part to this everything happens real quick in this house like day one they saw a ghost week one they had ghost friends every there's no waiting around like these ghosts are ready to get crazy and so they started this seance and apparently after only two minutes quote all hell broke loose oh shit and that comes from the mouth of roger perrin so they did an episode of paranormal witness where both roger and carolyn narrated it with some of the daughters um the family has been pretty outspoken but that was the only source i saw where even the parents

were talking and even roger was like all hell broke loose. Yeah. And Roger didn't seem to be the prime target. So he's saying that he seems to have it the easiest. I saw actually was on that show where they said he felt like sometimes a hand would brush his back or like they were like being really like positively affectionate. Right. But he never had any dark stuff happen until later. He's like, what do you mean, kids? Like, they're just patting me happen until later he's like what do you mean kids

like they're just patting me on the back right what do you mean manny who's eating rat poison in the corner yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh yeah so it was just apparently it went really badly very quickly lorraine later was quoted saying the things that went on there were just so incredibly frightening. It still affects me to talk about it today. And even Andrea to this day doesn't seem to totally talk about what happened, even though they've all been pretty outspoken in general about their experiences in the house. Andrea was able to report what she saw, but I get the sense that they're only telling a very light version of it. She does later. I did mention this last time.

She went on to write a few books about this, and maybe the information is in the book and she doesn't want to, like, give up the good, juicy info from the book. But she did say that any and all TV reenactments you've seen only scratch the surface of what happened that night. She said that Paranormal Witness did an okay job. She said a few of them. If you've seen it on TV, it's just scratching the surface of what happened that night. I want to watch that Paranormal Witness episode after this. Well, you can. It was an hour long and it was a great hour, to be fair.

Was it on Discovery Plus? I watched it probably not in the most legal way. Oh, certainly excellent. Okay, never mind. I just, I don't, I mean, it was available. I didn't have to do any really deep digging. I just typed in watch online and it was like one of the first links. But I feel like it should have been monetized and I don't think it was.

like it should have been monetized and i don't think it was um so between andrea and then her parents this is all of their point of view of what happened so within two minutes of total silence at the beginning of the seance the table has now lifted off the floor carolyn is now slumped in her chair as if she like her soul has left her like she's just like uh kind of hunched over and then her body starts contorting and her facial features start twisting up and roger even said for several minutes it looked like her whole body was being squeezed um even roger again who took the longest to believe ended up saying the phrase she was possessed at that at that seance and eventually as the table's lifting and carolyn and her chair are lifting and she's contorting i also heard that she was speaking crazy languages um in a voice that wasn't hers all of a sudden everything

comes crashing to the floor and i think the way andrea put it was like it's as if the hand of god made a fist and just slammed on the table oh my god um so then even though everything comes crashing down to the the floor carolyn in her chair levitates again it is now thrown across the room like like a ragdoll like however heavy her plus a chair is she got got rag dolled across the floor or across the room. She flips in the air and lands on her head. Oh, shit. Okay, that's violent now. And not moving. And everyone was pretty sure she was dead.

Holy crap. And imagine, by the way, being a child and seeing this happen while hiding. Seeing your mom. Yeah. Yeah. a child and seeing this happen while hiding. Seeing your mom. Yeah.

Um, according to paranormal witness, uh, and Roger's testimony, he freaked the fuck out. He started screaming, you killed her. You killed her. Get out at the Warrens.

And they just, the Warren just left. They just like, this was all within like, this all seems like it was within like a 10 minute thing of like, you need to do a seance. Then the seance happens and then they're getting kicked out of the house. Holy shit.

What a mess. And Roger runs over to her and starts screaming and shaking her. Come back to us. Come back to us. Don't leave your children. Oh my God. These poor children who are watching. I don't know if the kids also ran up to the mom or if they were just silently doing this,

but they said that they were also like begging for their mom to come back um eventually she does come back but she said in this interview that she even had to it must have been the pull of her children that brought her back because it took it took everything she had to come back that's so sad and awful um they said again they said that the warrens had best intentions, but the ghosts never stopped after this. And even the way it's not like they had any animosity towards the Warrens, I guess, because they did end up coming back four or five times afterwards to see if they could help. And it just never did. and it just never did and carolyn if she was already kind of like not doing well after that weird dream and she felt like she was always super drained um now after this seance that went wrong and never really like got closed out or whatever now she's really not doing well um even though

she was able to pull herself back into consciousness she was now super withering away like the energy was getting sucked out of her um to a point where now andrea has to take care of the house and her sisters and the mom is just in bed all the time oh that's sad one night uh this is the thing that i want to tell you about with the blueprint theory and like all my fun, like theories. It's a very, just like, it's gotta be really mind blowing for them, but it is when you take a step back and just think about it.

It's like how fucking crazy. If anyone is stoned right now, get ready for the experience of a lifetime. First of all, good luck to you listening to anything we do while stoned, but also this one will definitely be a good conversation piece for you so the her mom was not doing well it's like i don't i don't know what was going on but she was really falling apart um andrea one night had taken care of all of her sisters had put them to bed and was

now doing her own homework late at night and uh carolyn comes down at like nine o'clock at night and she's like oh what did we what did you make for dinner and andrea says oh i made some stew and uh the mom says like oh can i have some stew can you also make me some coffee and so the the sister so andrea ends up getting up from her homework and crossing through the dining room. And she's, I guess, in the kitchen for a while setting all this stuff up. She's made sure to say in the interview, like, this was a time before a microwave. So, like, I had to reheat the stew in a pot on the stove and do the coffee. And so I guess. There's no, like, Keurig.

Yeah, there's no Keurig. It's all a process. And so she walks through the dining room and she states that like the dining room was basically shut down for the night no one was using it it was completely dark and empty there was nothing going on and she just had to pass through it to get to the kitchen right she left her mom on the other side of the dining room in the living room or the parlor i forget which phrase she used um and i guess at one point, Carolyn, who's waiting in the living room, she hears a laugh from the dining room. She looks around.

She turns around and looks into the dining room. And it is not their dining room. It is. There are lights on. The candles are lit. The table is not theirs. The furniture is not theirs oh my god a whole fucking family is sitting there and they're like having a good time the woman is

cooking in the fireplace that the house actually has but was sealed off a hundred years ago holy shit so it's like a transport back in time to a different scene holy shit that's crazy and so the woman is cooking in this fireplace that's now not sealed off and there's two men sitting at either head of the table wow and one of them turns and sees carolyn oh no and like nudges the person next to him and points at her oh i would want to sink into the floor like don't mind me please well then so andrea's quote about this was to them she was the ghost and they were looking into the future while she was looking into the past that is one of my favorite theories about fucking yeah when you see a ghost and it's like seeing each other and it must have just been just as scary for them to see you.

It's like a time slip. Oh, my God. How crazy. I have such goose cam. The fact that you're throwing time travel into ghosts, like my brain explodes every time. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, I just love those stories. There's a lot of those on Jim Harreld and they get me every time like have you heard the one where the kid sees the teenager in the little boy he's like running through the kitchen of his childhood home and he

sees um he's the caller and he says oh as a kid I like was in the kitchen I saw this man standing at the counter making a sandwich in a hoodie and I like blinked and he was gone and then years later he's like I was making a sandwich at the counter and I saw a little and he was gone. And then years later, he's like, I was making a sandwich at the counter and I saw a little kid run through the room and he's like, and it took me a while to be like, wait a second. Oh my gosh. It's like a flip. Oh, it just gives me shivers. Anyway. Is that not the craziest thing? That's so wild. It's so wild. It's like, and it also, it's like, is it time travel or is it that this house is sitting in some sort of ultra dimension where like they're all layered on top of each other?

And if there's a glitch, you if there's a glitch in some way, you can pass through a window or like pass through some sort of portal or see through it or something. Yeah. In which case that means like the apartment I'm sitting in right now, that's empty. If it were to like have a glitch and all the layers could see each other, there'd be like a hundred people just moving and grooving. Oh, L.A. apartments will be a disaster i but so that just blows my mind that they also saw her that is creepy as hell and uh apparently andrea comes back in with her

with the dinner and the coffee and the lights are completely out The dining room is exactly as it was. But she sees Carolyn standing there and she's apparently beaming like so happy. Oh, and she's like, are you OK? And Carolyn says, all my questions were just answered. And after that, whatever that experience was, she immediately started getting better. What? And so in the interview Andrea was doing doing it she basically ended up saying that the house that had harmed her also began to heal her oh my god i i don't know how that works or why that works no just she i guess that experience of the ghosts connecting with each other i don't know

i have no idea wow in that moment she was like all my questions just got answered and then she just started getting better so she just had some experience that we can't totally that i guess wasn't negative for once i don't know yeah i don't know okay good i mean i shouldn't question it i'm glad i i just don't understand it it's like where those ghosts did they see she needed help and they like sent her some good energy like what the fuck did she like learn that they're good now and not bad or yeah weird i don't know but so uh i wanted to also add that weirdly this was not the first time this had happened in the house because one time andrea also saw quote the spitting image of herself as an old woman

so it's kind of exactly the story you just told of that little kid and the teenager. Shivers. So Andrea has a quote about this saying, I always considered the house a portal, but not only a portal to the past, but to the future. So just wild. Because one way has to go the other way, right?

Yeah. So even though they were totally freaked out by this house for a very good reason due to financial instability they ended up staying at this house until 1980 they just like which was another seven years later i guess they were there from 1971 to 1980 they officially bought it a couple months before so technically it's 1970 to 1980 like a decade years yeah and they just couldn't afford to leave there was um i guess it was the nixon administration the economy was tanking not in this economy there there was also like who on earth would take in like a family of

seven with five little kids like that's a lot to ask from someone and even temporary housing like that's a lot yeah and they had put and even temporary housing like that's a lot yeah and they had put all their money into this house so they had nothing else so and when they bought it like they didn't get any weird vibes or negativity so it wasn't like they took a risk like they just had everything going for them right and also like this wasn't a thought of theirs but i'm thinking too like even if they left like who's to say that these things aren't attached to them fair point of them is the risk worth it or is it just going to keep happening elsewhere without a house yeah yeah and so uh eventually so when they first bought it it was

um it what like one of the selling points was it was a farmhouse with 200 acres okay and it was just like a lot of space but then they ended up having like a pipe burst or something. And they were able to officially leave by selling off the acreage. Oh, OK. So by the time that they because the property kept, I guess, depreciating. But at least they had the land they could sell. So by the time they sold the house house, it only now has eight and a half acres. Oh, OK. Wow.

So they sold a lot of it yeah so um the next residents to move in were the Sutcliffs who I mentioned in the Warren episode uh because they were very adamant that the house is not haunted um okay and they although I did see one source where they listed like some things that had happened and it was like okay so it like is haunted okay they were like it's not haunted at all but we have seen the fog that they mentioned and we have seen lights and the doors do creak and you know and so it was like okay but so there weren't any like bad spirits though is what you're at least telling me like there was no like demon but so they ended up uh they say the house was not haunted and they also had a lot of issues after the conjuring movie came out because people kept trespassing on the property i bet um one of

them even i think the wife said that she had stayed up for like several nights in a row because people kept coming onto the property with flashlights trying to like ghost hunt oh god so like this is a psa like private property is private property. Please don't fucking go there. Like, just, this is not us telling you that, like, it's worth it. And I know when I always say teenage me used to go into houses. I get it. I hear the hypocrisy. Also, they were abandoned, to be clear.

Also dangerous, but, yeah. Also dangerous, but at least, like, I wasn't freaking any people out. Yeah, and also, like, you don't know. It's still not good. In this country, people have guns, and there are some states where they can shoot you don't don't risk it please it's not good it's not worth it so just don't trespass um and they so they ended up trying to sue warner brothers for like um for i guess damages and also they were trying to sue them like can you at least get us like a top of the line security system or something?

I don't know whatever happened with that. I think last I saw Warner Brothers had not commented. Sounds about right. They even have at least because I looked up YouTube that they have a bunch of videos trying to prove that the house isn't haunted and that the movie ruined their home. Well, they have at least one hour long youtube video really going into it wow um and like i said they tried to sue warner brothers and since this is uh since they're not super vocal about it i think that hang on i think there was one i didn't put it on my notes shit i feel like there was one video or one source where like the Sutcliffs and the Perrins actually sat down and tried to like hash out if it was haunted or not.

Oh, I feel like I saw a roundtable discussion. Kind of. I feel like that's what happened. I saw some sort of comment on like the Sutcliffs were trying to say, we're trying to like say something and Lorraine Warren got involved. It was a weird, anyway, I'm not too sure about that,

but let's just say the Sutcliffs are on team. There is no ghosts and the parents are clearly very open about being ghosts. So vocal. In fact, that Andrea has written a trilogy of books called house of darkness, house of light. Apparently,

I don't know if it's because they think they've already lived it so why should they have to read the book or maybe something in there is like too bothersome for them but only the mom has read all three of andrea's books this is oh you mean within the family within the family yeah um so only the mom has read it i guess one of the sisters tried to read it but something in there was super disturbing and she was like i can't i can't read your book sorry i mean it makes sense like you wouldn't want to go back to that necessarily and relive that because she apparently to write these books she sat down with every member of the family and did like really in-depth interviewing so she got all their like super dark experiences and i think they just don't want to

read the book and find out how it got written yeah andrea did say there's only three stories in the books that are not mentioned out of respect to the family because one story was her mom's and two of them were either sisters um what do you mean three stories in the book were not mentioned like three like really scary things that happened three events they were in the book but only there's only three stories that in the book that oh that aren't mentioned in the book oh that are not in the book gotcha gotcha gotcha uh one was the moms and then one was the sisters and another was the sisters and i guess it was too much that they ended up saying please don't put them in the book um but she does say every other story at least 98 of their experiences are

in the books wow um she also said that the conjuring movie for anyone asking does have elements of truth and they got the big picture right but it's mainly not accurate especially the one leaning into lorraine's belief that Bathsheba is the one causing all the problems I totally get though if you're looking at the story of the Perrin family of course Bathsheba would be like the villain in a movie of course yeah but the family thinks that whoever like so in the story of what actually happened that woman who was like chanting over the mom while she was sleeping and like this ghost that kept showing up while she was sleeping and hurting her um the family doesn't

think it's bathsheba even though lorraine said it was because i guess the things that she was saying and the things that she was chanting to the mom were it was such outdated language that it was even outdated for Bathsheba's time in the 1800s wow yeah so this place had been around since the 1600s right so like yeah it could have been someone else maybe it could have been maybe even though it was like outdated if Bathsheba was a practicing witch maybe it was like an old spell or something I like that was one of the arguments but it really just seemed like it wouldn't be what someone would if they're just trying to tell you get out of the house like they would just say get out of the house instead of this whole flowery language yeah

yeah this like culty stuff yeah i wonder yeah i mean this is probably just adding too much to it but it makes you wonder like what if even in the 1800s it was haunted by this character who right haunted Bathsheba and maybe that's part of the negativity that existed in her life maybe yeah and well so Lorraine's thought process with why it could be Bathsheba too because even though she didn't live on the property and she was just a neighbor who did something dark here they were thinking just because even if, because the whole story with Bathsheba was like, maybe she did it, maybe she didn't,

but no matter what the public did not like her and she was really like bitter at the end because she was so hated and despised. Maybe that energy is what came through. So even if it's not Bathsheba herself, it's the hatred that she had to deal with that was haunting the house. They also think that it might's not Bathsheba herself, it's the hatred that she had to deal with that was haunting the house. They also think that it might not be Bathsheba because this woman literally had like her neck snapped and like her head was like kind of hanging off.

And Bathsheba died from like a stroke. Right. Right. It wasn't hanging or whatever. Yeah. So but it did make sense for the movie because in the movie, I think Bathsheba died by hanging in the trees. Was it by suicide or was it by like? I don't know.

I don't I didn't see the movie recently. I'm not sure. But I know that she was like in the tree or hanging in the tree. And so you had mentioned to last episode that like several people died by suicide. So it makes you wonder. So because of that, they think it might actually be Mrs. Arnold, the wife from the original family that lived there who did hang herself. That's who I think it is. Just going to say it right now.

Leave Bathsheba alone. So members of the family, when they were filming The Conjuring, they actually got invited to go to the set and I guess either be a consultant in some way or just got to have approval or got to just see what was going on, but they got invited to the set. And while they were there, out of nowhere, the one day they were supposed to be there, the family all got there, and the mom, last minute, Carolyn just bailed.

She was like, I can't do it. It's too much. It's not for me. And while they were there, there was this freak windstorm like 70 mile windstorm oh my god 70 mile an hour windstorm that went through the whole set the camp the cameras were flying lights were flying all the equipment was flying like it was just complete chaos out of fucking nowhere and at the same moment carolyn called them and said that she had just broken her hip

oh no and so then the whole family freaked out that like it you know at this point they're just calling the spirit bathsheba uh whether or not they think it's the actual woman and they were like it's like a curse like she doesn't want to be exposed she doesn't like that we're telling her story like and so they they freaked out for a minute um at the end obviously the conjuring came out. And like I said earlier, her, the whole parent family and Lorraine were welcome to an early preview premiere of it where they reunited after 40 years.

And Andrea does say about the entire experience, quote, it was not an optical illusion. It was not mass hysteria. It was not a figment of our imaginations. It was real. It is real. It is real. Spirit is real.

There is something beyond our mortal existence. And I find that incredibly comforting as a notion that we do go on. Wow. Who's quote was that? That was Andrea. Andrea. She seems very spiritual. So again, I'm going to shout them out.

I got a lot of my information from a YouTube channel called 757 Paranormal, and they did two separate hour long interviews where I got a lot of my quotes from Andrea. And she seems very open to anyone who is curious about spirit and things like that. And she wants to help you learn, like, if you open the door, you know, you don't know what you're going to get. the door you know you don't know what you're gonna get yeah at one point there was one quote about like she was like with that many experiences once once you've like kicked the door to that world off of its hinges you might as well rip the whole door off and like there's there's no closing that door anymore for me i just see stuff all the time she did say she has a ghost now in her current home but he's very nice so good he's respectful and nice like Walt good good good she said he's very loud for no reason in the middle of the night but that's the worst of them just like a

roommate okay she did say and this goes back to like some of the weirdness of the house whether it's the time travel multi-layer dimension portal I don't know what to call it I don't know what to call it but just to give an idea, a lot of people have asked the family, like, did you know when you first moved into this place that something was weird? And they do say that they felt something the first day that they owned the place. Right. In the times where they had looked at the house and they still hadn't officially bought it, they didn't recognize anything. Yeah. That being said, even though they didn't feel anything was weird being said even though they didn't feel

anything was weird they recognized that events in their life were weird leading up to actually buying the house interesting hindsight so like they weren't even living there yet and the spirit was already attaching to them so shit it was like preparing for their move in oh how creepy is that so andrea said that the house it feels like the house picked them and it was some sort of quote cosmic calling oh my god because even eight months before moving in weird stuff was already happening for example out of nowhere there became this string of people breaking into their house their cat was killed something happened to another one of their pets, which was something else happened to one of their other pets, who was a dog, which out of nowhere, their mom named Bathsheba. No.

Is that not the craziest thing? No. Like, ever before going into this house. I don't like that. This name is too weird for everybody to keep pulling it out of thin air she so they had a dog randomly named bath sheba they used to call her sheba because they didn't know where their mom actually got the name from okay mom whatever they were like what a weird name so they just called the dog sheba it's just a weird coincidence

but like your nickname was bath and they're like how about sheba m's like i'll call you bath okay your nickname for me is emothy and everyone else wants to call me moth so you know there's a win and lose that's fair yeah so uh yeah just weird things like that existed before they ever got to the house and they weren't even i don't think they weren't seriously looking to move uh when they first did but carolyn found this house in the classifieds this like this farmhouse that they ended up at found it in the found it in the classifieds called them that night because she was so invested in drawn to it yikes and drained the family bank account for it that day oh my god bath sheba we can handle mom you can name the dog Bath Sheba and we'll let you have it. But this is like a step too far, I think.

And apparently the poor husband the next day was like, you did what? Yeah, seriously. With our five kids in tow? Holy shit. And so he ended up checking out the house too and he immediately fell in love with it. The kids felt immediately drawn to it. So

it just became this whole family thing. But what's even weirder is when she saw it in the ads or in the classifieds and called them apparently she saw it the morning of the first day that that ad had been in the newspaper and i guess the realtor or whatever the realtor had uh bought out like a 90-day block for it to be in the paper wow and she found it on the first morning of day one of to be in the paper. Wow. And she found it on the first morning of day one of it being in the paper. And after they called and said they were interested for the next three months, nobody ever called. It was still in the paper and nobody called.

See, they were the only people. No, no, no. It kind of makes me think because we talked about it last last week, too. But this house has this way of like bubbling out sound when people were screaming for help it feels like it almost bubbled out its own awareness like it kind of put people away from even looking at it can draw certain people in and push certain people away yeah i mean that's terrifying so uh anyway she thinks that there was already something spiritual in the works before they ever moved in even in the movie they were she was saying it was weird first of all that freak storm on set at the same time that carolyn broke her hip but there were

things that happened on set that were weird just in their way of making the movie so like for the creepiest thing for me was that the set deck um or the people who who build the set who pick out all you know what the bed what the bedroom is going to look like and decorate it from head to toe they have like a stick stick hands look like what the stick hands look like they had um that's wardrobe actually probably oh i'm so sorry you're completely right or special effects special effects um but uh they're the they had very little source material to go off of so they didn't have pictures of the bedrooms or anything to look at. Oh no.

Did they? Oh no. I know what you're going to say. They, as soon as they had to start decorating the house, apparently there was like upwards of like 25,000 different wallpapers that were popular in the seventies and they picked the exact right ones for the rooms or all the way down to like there's

you can even see it in the movie that next to andrea's bed there's this framed picture of a white cat like a folk art piece of a white cat they had never seen a picture of that no one ever told them about it and yet they chose to put that up next to andrea's bed in the in the on the set so like it was saying it was originally in her room or something and it was originally in her room apparently she showed it during one of the interviews she was like it was so weird that they like they picked they knew to put that in the movie without ever seeing anything of it you must have gone in and been like how did you yes like gave you this info why do i all of a sudden feel like i can i can i feel like i'm in my room how

creepy so like the the literal structure of the set and they had a 13 million dollar budget apparently so like they built a house from head to toe that was like a pretty solid replica of the real thing that's with the wallpaper and everything wallpaper and everything um so that's just super weird and then of course i couldn't do this without telling you what happens on ghost adventures yes so this is the season premiere of season 22 um it's a 90 minute special oh yeah and they're freaked the fuck out the whole time um so they're i'm just i did a few quick things i didn't want to talk about them forever and i also you know i want there to still be some yeah i'm gonna watch it watching i think i'm gonna watch it tonight it should be the first in your queue since i watched it on your account

to do these notes oh fantastic you mean the one that you changed from poop head to pee pee head pee pee face yeah pee pee god damn it you're my little peepee face what's wrong with that i don't understand oh my god okay so they're already getting immediately like crazy spike ratings on all their meters and their equipment zach of course is very angry and on edge although i'm unsure if that's the ghosts at this point it's just his his homeostasis that's just how he is at like base level uh everyone keeps it's this is very weird because it sounds a lot like it usually what i think of ghost avengers is like i feel like they get a lot of information from the people telling the story and then if this show were fake they could easily use that information to like kind of uh write their

own story of what happens. Like if they heard from the people on the walkthrough like, oh, we get really angry out of nowhere. And then all of a sudden Zach gets really angry. Right. After I had done so much of my own research on this house, the clearly the to me, the ghost adventures episode only focuses on like very few storylines and it doesn't really go deep into anything like the trances or people getting trapped in boxes or the voices either being thrown so you think you can hear someone in a room where they're not or like the bubbling the sound so you can't hear people screaming for help. They didn't cover any of that and what's weird is those were all the things that were happening on the show. And I feel like-

So you had the intel. Oh my God. I feel like that made it more real because you know if Zach knew that was a regular symptom, he would have narrated that information. 100%. So it was super creepy that like- Is this the same entity that threw the voices? I mean, yeah.

100%. Yeah. I mean, we all know if Zach knew the story of kids getting trapped in boxes he would have sat in a box put himself in a box he would have absolutely been like lock me in the box and get it he actually would have been like aaron get in the box i'm gonna sit on it so uh anyway so like it was weird seeing how much stuff so interesting he could have really highlighted them but he didn't know that information so he didn't it makes it yeah more realistic because you're like well he didn't even know to talk about it wow so everyone on the show seemed like they were going

in and out of this trance like there was at least one scene that was really creepy where like everyone was just weirdly silent because all of them had fallen into like different trances it was super eerie they were all like kind of just checking out mentally and even so andrea perrin even guest stars on the walkthrough with them oh fun just to tell them like oh and this happened here this happened here um and at different times zach is like either getting really angry like literally even tells andrea perrin you are a very nice lady but i am so mad right now i can't cope with this man he's just so much so he uh he ends up like kind of like like checking out like he's like not really there they're like are you okay and he's not responding and then he'll come back and he apologized to andrea and he was like i don't know what to say my mind's just kind of getting away

from me and andrea responded with this she said yeah you're going in between dimensions that happened to us a lot we didn't ever know if it was 1976 1876 1776 1676 because in this house there is no time what oh my god no she was like there is no time don't worry it happens all the time don't worry about it she really did to see she seemed the least unfazed she was like yeah you're going in between dimensions we it's don't worry but you're not the first okay calm down calm down my mom saw a whole thanksgiving dinner in the dining room and a whole thanksgiving dinner saw her yeah i've been doing this and didn't offer to share desserts i'm confused maybe they did maybe that's what changed everything have that's why she started healing she had some real old-fashioned apple pie that's what that fixes everything but so she said there is no time here. Oh, God.

And truly for 90 minutes of this, it felt like a lot of the 90 minutes was people just tripping balls like they were just. Oh, shit. Like they were blacking out. They were completely checked out. Certain times you're getting really angry. At one point, the lights are very obviously flickering and specifically Andrea's bedroom and they're all outside. You can see it in the window which like i'm aware if you're like blaze or someone

it could be an intern at the light switch like i get it but like it if it's you're a former intern like me and m and we're like well we know that that might be something we'd have to do but like if it's not and that was real it was was really fucking freaky. There were people, they all felt different weird icy spots floating around them. They actually saw the black fog a bunch of times after talking to a bunch of people. The SLS, the stick figure machine. Oh, yeah, that thing freaks me out. Caught two full bodies on command. It said, show yourself.

And then two bodies showed up. They got an EVP of a voice saying, leave. Some of the items were, it sounded like they were moving around. You could hear like things like kind of clanking into each other in a room that nobody was in. They heard growls in real life. And all of this has like,

are things that other people have also experienced like the black fog seems like at i've heard of at least four different families yeah even the ones who didn't believe there were ghosts were like oh well we did see the black fog but yeah so like i feel like the black fog is the main character yeah i feel like that's if anyone is bathsheba um the they also got their legs grabbed they heard a huge bang which again if i'm watching it and assuming everything that's happening is real that bang was very very loud and intentional um it was like someone dropped something on a hard floor upstairs um and then zach freaks out because he feels like he's getting stabbed in his side like really badly where he

like falls to the ground oh dear um aaron sees a man behind zach people keep going into trances again and then jay and aaron start a ritual downstairs in the basement and when they light a match in the basement for this ritual the ovulus says cellar blaze so uh also during part of their investigation they invited on carl and keith the two original investigators um and i will say holy crap if you're gonna watch anything watch that part it was like 45 minutes ish in where carl i'm pretty sure was possessed it was very creepy um he he's sitting at the table in the room where they had the seance and he like slumps down kind of like carolyn did and he has this really weird voice and keeps chanting don't leave but in a very it was a

very weird voice don't leave it was like yeah i don't understand it which makes it even weirder to me he starts breathing really heavily and freaking out and then at some point he says he saw the black fog surround him and then he woke up no no and and then he like told his brother like you have to do a protection spell or a protection blessing over me uh jay and aaron have a match and they're doing a ritual they can do one for you so here's my favorite thing this was honestly the most real or relatable at least I think Zach Bagans has ever been because all of them at different times I heard at least two of the main three ghost adventures crew at different times were getting so irritable and so freaked out that they at different points like just were like gonna give up their fucking careers they like

even zach at one point this is a quote from him what are we even here for like what's the point of this like what we just piss them off and then what it's like like wow you must be so scared wall i feel like we've all just had a moment yeah like i was like i feel like every time i've watched ghost adventures with you that's something you scream at the TV. You're like, what are you even doing this for? Like, you're just going to piss them off. And then what? He literally said that.

And then someone else, I think Aaron said it, too. But they were freaked out. Put your shirt back on. I say a lot. You did. I say a lot of things repeatedly. That's a common one, though. Yeah.

Something super creepy, too, with, like, Zach always makes all of them turn their phones off before an investigation. Right. So it doesn't mess with any of the meters. His phone turned on by itself and then an unknown caller calls him. And then Siri on her own, like has a prompt on his phone that says, are you dead? Ew, what? Is that not the creepiest thing in the world? And then at one point, Billy feels something lunge at him and on camera gets all the hangers moving by themselves. Again, could be an intern with a string. I know, blah, blah, blah. And then Billy, what was so similar about the sound of like, or about the house being able to like bubble out people calling for help.

Billy goes upstairs swearing he's hearing footsteps upstairs and thinks it's zach and he's like zach where are you where are you and he's like shouting for them and they're all only like one floor down and never heard him screaming yeah i don't like that so the last thing i'm gonna say is when the ghost of interest crew was at this house it was in 2019 right when it had been purchased by a new family right so the new family to buy it in 2019 was cory and jennifer heinzen and they bought this property together apparently like this feels like me as a dad um cory was a paranormal investigator and he was part of a paranormal facebook page and saw that the house was for sale. Oh, wow. He went out there and did it.

And so he like he had like a family meeting with his wife and kids and they all agreed together they were going to buy it. At least he had a meeting. I mean, it seems like the first what was her name? Carolyn was like, oh, I did a thing. Carolyn was like, I saw an ad for it. We must do it. Sorry, it's too late. I already spent our life savings and so uh the family agreed that they were going to buy it together and they opened it to the public for tours for overnights and for filming that's genius and they even do uh they did like online internet live streams uh in the middle of the night where you could like you could ask questions and all this kind of stuff and while they're doing an investigation you could be a part of the live stream how cool is that so during covid because we were all inside and nothing to do their daughter

was at the house one day and made a tiktok and it blew the fuck oh shit so i want to give a shout out to tiktok handle madison.heinzen207 holy shit how cool and so now she's because she got so big on tiktok with this i think the original uh the original tag was like she was just standing in the house with i think the caption was like oh annabelle scares you my parents bought the conjuring house like something like that i think we got tagged and i think i got tagged in that too on think I got tagged in that too on TikTok. I feel like I saw that. Well, so now that she had this like conjuring house platform, she was doing house tours, showing you different rooms. She was answering frequently asked questions.

She was doing like other live streams in the house too. She even showed one, there's one wall in the house that now has a bunch of signatures on it, including from the Ghost Adventurers crew and the Perrin family. How cool. And she says that the house that now has a bunch of signatures on it, including from the ghost adventures crew and the parent family. How cool. And, uh,

she says that the house is still haunted to this day. They have definitely seen the fog. Even her brother, I think was the one that got interviewed on ghost adventures and because he had just seen the fog and he was a freak the fuck out. Oh, um, and they've seen lights.

They've heard growls and knocking and objects have moved um and she during an interview heard so in the conjuring movie i told you about the hide and hide and seek clapping game in the last episode so they would play hide and seek but they would clap as a way of like a marco polo or hot and cold letting the seeker know where they were in the house and uh i guess during an interview i don't know if she was talking about that specifically or whatever but in the other room on the interview you can even hear it too there are two claps in the other room like in the game ew i hate that so they're and you can see that on her tiktok too she has a video of the interview and then in

the other room you hear did people talk about it in the interview yeah they all freaked out she said it was one of the scarier things that's happened to her um she also saw an apparition of a woman in a dress uh walking past her and as soon as she had looked up it was gone but she told her parents and they were like oh yeah a bunch of people see that woman welcome to the club uh the place she also i don't i didn't see this anywhere but she was able to say this on her tiktok that apparently the place for a brief moment was also a daycare center for children oh what and something happened that she doesn't even know what it was but one day all the moms came in and unenrolled their kids on the same day. They were just like, fuck this.

Do you think one of them called on the phone tree and was like, I found out some hot gossip about this building? Maybe. Honestly, that'd be really funny if just like the gossip of a three-year-old got everyone really researching the house. But it was in the 80s and they all the all the kids just stopped going one day but uh i guess madison on her tiktok she's shown drawings that are still left over from the kids no no and i was gonna say one of them a few of the drawings from different children are a picture of a woman with a crooked neck no. And let me send you this picture too, because I wanted to show it to you.

We can put it on our, we can put it on our Instagram. I don't want it. Here is one picture of that. Oh my God. Stop it. That's horrible. One of the drawings.

And then also what's even creepier um i'll send you this picture too uh on during one investigation an sls camera the stick figure camera actually got a stick figure apparition with its head crooked oh no isn't that crazy oh no oh no oh no oh no oh no no thank you so anyway that left that's just beyond and there that one picture instagram by the way that one picture with the crooked neck uh there was another picture right underneath it of a different kid drawing and it was another crooked neck lady um so i guess that would make sense with the Perrin dream of a woman with a neck snap. Yeah. You know?

So this week, actually, in hot news, which, yes, I have been tagged in it. I appreciate everyone tagging me, but I'm announcing it now. We don't need to tag me anymore. Well, it's going to be five weeks from now that people hear this. So too late. I've been getting tagged for what feels like five weeks. I just want everyone to know I'm very aware of it. Thank you for making me aware of it.

This week, it was announced that the family is selling the house. It's selling for $1.2 million, which is like more than double or even triple what they paid for. So good for them. I feel like they made it. They did it big. I feel like her TikToking really helped. I feel like she was like the promoter of i bet her dad is so proud though because like i'm proud of her i am too but i bet like her dad who was like oh i i'm going into this

with a business plan and then she's like all right dad i can help i just think that's so cute it's like a family affair hold my beer i've got this yeah you're my non-alcoholic beer don't worry who knows who knows but uh so they ended up they're now selling the house for definitely a profit uh good for them and also they did like so many wonderful things from what i can tell on her account of like doing these live streams letting other people and be involved in the live streams doing tours like really promoting the story of her um and uh so they are selling it uh in one of her two of her most recent videos uh she was really upset about it like you can tell that they don't want to sell the house i bet and also now she's tiktok famous

what's she gonna do so she is still gonna do paranormal content she's already said that that's still gonna happen it just good as long as the house is with them she will be doing stuff in the house she has over a million followers yo that her first uh when she first posted that picture i think or posted that tiktok i think the current i think there's like three million views or something already or wow a lot more now but like something X number millions of views on that video. She really blew up. And so this is a quote from her video where she was telling everyone the house sold. She said, please know it was not an easy decision to make. It's something we've been contemplating for months now.

It's taken a huge toll on me and my family's health and well-being, especially my dad's. And we just can't keep doing what we're doing. We're trying to live two different lives in Maine and Rhode Island. And it's just really hard. We're all heartbroken because we've been pushing ourselves so hard to make this work. We just pushed ourselves to the limit. Which, like, I totally get that. They were grinding, at least on TikTok from what I could see.

And then I guess they were back in March or something they were already sold out of like tours and overnights for the entire year of 2021 wow I mean that's a huge business to be running yeah and I think it I think they maybe thought like oh we're just like a small family business and like I don't think they ever expected they would be that sold out all the. So I think it just obviously it became overwhelming. So they are selling the house. They are now. She said she's still going to do paranormal content. Like I said earlier, her dad is a paranormal investigator.

So I feel like this is not the end for them with that kind of stuff. One thing, the last thing I'm going to say, actually, is I did look up the house on Zillow. thing the last thing i'm going to say actually is i did look up the house on zillow and if you it is available to everybody but there is a 3d tour of the entire house hell yeah um i will send you the link i have so much to do tonight all these episodes and wow um but yeah so i just wanted to give a shout out to madison.heinzen207 and even though it looks like their conjuring house adventure might not be uh it might be over it doesn't sound like their paranormal content is going to be over so please go follow them um and yeah that's the story of the parent family haunting aka the harrisville farmhouse i will say the same thing everyone on tiktok is saying uh raise your

hand if you think zach bagans is gonna try to buy the fucking house oh a hundred percent no no joke every comment is like zach bagans is typing like yeah oh shit i am i'm really busy now i'm sorry i'm doing this tour so i can't oh it's it's a long one it's literally the whole house so i'm going through every little of these like corn they did a great job with this tour i kind of wish that i had shown you the tour before i did the entire story so you could see every room it's it makes it so much creepier because it is an old like farmhouse like you can tell this place is old af i saw one of the uh one of the tiktoks uh madison was like no we do not actually officially live here we just bought it out but like we live in maine and we just work here she was like i could

not live in that house yeah i bet i mean i'd be terrified i love this room that has like i survived the conjuring house merchandise in it i'm in that same room right now oh my god look to the right there's a poster of the conjuring oh look at that yeah i mean they've got a signature wall and they have the they have the uh they have the squish squish mellow of the plague doctor that we want oh do they really yeah where is it i'm at the signature oh i see it i see it's by the cv yeah that's what emin i want wow i thought there was so i didn't realize that i thought there was a little signature wall i didn't know it's a room there's a whole room where just all the walls are signed by all these people I'm trying to zoom in oh my god paranormal New England wait look up we're in the same place look look at to the top left ghost adventures oh my god I see it wow we're on the same tour here

this is fun fun stuff this is so cool um you guys should really we'll put this all on I don't know how we'll do it on our Instagram, but. We'll do it. We can, we can post it in our story and do like a swipe up thing or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, there you go. So that's the story.

The Perrons also signed it. So. How cool is that? This is really neat. That's got to be really fun to be one of the Perrons though. And like go in and see all of the signatures of people who want to know your story yeah that's got to be like impacted by it especially when you were there for a decade and like felt like you needed to keep all this to yourself

and now it was like hell for you like yeah and you had to keep it a secret but now like look at all the signatures in your house where it happened and all these people want to hear what you went through and like you don't have to keep it a secret anymore that's so cool also in that same signature room there look in that ceiling there's like a creepy pull-down attic that i want nothing to do with oh i see it's like a string on the ceiling no no no no no apparently in the attic is where a few people hanged themselves okay yep not going up there anyway so there you have it this is so cool and this is one of the coolest stories you ever done see i'm glad we did a two-parter because that was like a full another hour of content yeah it was a long one

i did not know what we wanted to do i just loved that we could fit two whole episodes into it that's amazing um wow what a story um uh okay i'm gonna do this tour later for now i'll get back to the show i guess um would you like to hear a story yes 100 what if i yeah okay sorry if the right answer is no then the wrong answer is having a podcast where i have to listen to this that's exactly right and you've selected the wrong answer no matter what i was going to be wrong okay this time i'd like to hear something remember what i said oh i don't want to do this one for halloween because it's too dark and oh for fuck's sake well it's the notes i had so now we're just doing now i'm just hearing the really fucked up story we avoided last week

yes i had to do it at some point okay fine it's gonna be a lot of this is a trigger warning that children are involved it is i want to uh be up front here and say this is a tough one um it's a particularly horrible story features child abuse um cannibalism oh shit i mean a lot of like really wow sexual assault just like the all the all the big stuff okay everybody it's it covers all the bases and i just want to warn you it's a toughie so if you have to dip out i understand um yikes okay yeah so let's i don't know what I don't know what the actual topic is. Oh, I haven't even told you what it is. No, I just know that it's bad.

Yeah, so the story is Joachim Kroll, and he's a German man who just did some really bad things in the 70s. So I'm just going to tell you about him. I'm so sorry in advance. Okay, let's get started. July 3rd, 1976. police went from house to house oh by the way this takes place in germany so there's gonna be a lot of german words yay okay that's the fun side yeah that's the upside we get to hear christine speak german also are you

teaching your baby german uh i we're trying to i mean it's hard because blaze doesn't speak it so it's like we can't speak it all the time but i like how you said we are trying to and it's hard and in my head i was like because the baby isn't here yet well also that but it'll be hard because yeah we can't like i spoke it because we only spoke it at home we didn't speak anything else but gotcha i can't quite fly with someone who doesn't speak it but you could just teach blaze and the baby at the same time i mean i that's a lot to put on my plate i'm not responsible for that he's a capricorn he'll figure it out he learned it himself then he should have learned it by now it's been seven years he's been with me very true um my mom what it wants to try and you know she's a german professor so if anyone can teach it it's her we'll see um okay you ready all right so july 3rd 1976 police went

from house to house on friesenstrasse there's a lot of german words i'm so sorry and some of them i say in german and some i don't honestly the fact that you're apologizing is really getting in the way of me getting to hear you speak i oh so sorry all right all right just hurry it up okay okay okay okay sorry where am i um they were looking for uh marion kettner a four-year-old who had gone missing okay um one of the locals oscar mueller approached a policeman and told him that he was suspicious of his neighbor when the police asked him to elaborate the main reason he had these suspicions was because his apartment's waste pipe was abnormally blocked which led to a strange encounter with said neighbor waheem kroll oh god okay when oscar approached the neighbor kroll had advised him not to use the shared toilet because it's blocked and quote full of guts oh so like

we're not even hiding it's just you couldn't even say like full of poop like you had to really even full of guts so like there's really no other thing that it could be except that he's a killer except like um this isn't normal something's's wrong here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Well, with this information, police are like, we're going to go chat with this guy. And so they make their way to his apartment.

And when they tell him about what his neighbor had just said, Kroll reassured him that what he meant was it was just a rabbit's guts that were in the drain pipe. Okay. But also, like, I feel so bad for this neighbor because, like, you just got thrown so under the bus and you live next door to this murderer. Yeah. Whether or not you know it's a murderer yet, if I ever thought there was a chance that my neighbor was a murderer and then I told the police and then they told him what I said. Yeah, they're like, this guy called me. Like, are you kidding me? That's a good point.

The police did not give a fuck. Oh, my God. That is such a good point. I would literally have to tell them, like, and also such a specific god it's such a good point i would literally have to tell them like and also such a specific it's not even like you can make up a fake name you're just like like the the gut story was told to one person like to oscar oh my god i would be i would be i would be moving out there'd be no way yeah so poor oscar gets thrown right under the bus and the neighbor's like no no oscar's just being Oscar's just being silly. I meant rabbit guts.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Silly Oscar. It gets really bad here. The police were like, OK. But they decided to look around the apartment just in case. They saw that he was cooking something in the kitchen. And it wasn't a bunny rabbit, was it?

No, it wasn't. It was that four-year-old, wasn't it? Looking into the pan, they found he was cooking potatoes onions a hand and some carrots in boiling water okay so then they went to check on the waste pipe with a plumber and discovered there were other bits of very evidently human remains specifically intestines which had been clogging up the sewer system. Okay. So like definitely human guts. Yeah. Yeah. So Kroll was arrested immediately and it was later confirmed that the

remains were tragically those of the missing girl, Marion Kettner. Yeah. Okay. Well. In the investigation, he didn't deny his crimes at all. I mean, it sounded like he was on the way out already with his, like, gut talk. It seems like he wasn't hiding very well. I mean, he also literally, like, they walked in on him cooking a hand.

So, like, what were you going to say? Right. What were you going to say? Good point. And so within a few days, he confessed to a total of 14 murders. Wow. Which spanned over the course of 20 years. So this is the story of waheem kroll

okay way to way to start it though yeah great in theory start with the bank well is that tell me that's the only child stuff yes no okay well never mind then i was gonna say at least it ends there right there's no at least unfortunately at least you get a taste of what the whole thing's gonna be like are all 14 children no okay well you know great no i'm grasping at straws i know okay it's it's hard to find a positive spin to this but he's known as the roar hunter um which is the area he was in uh just the word hunter we talked about this last week but like it just makes it so much worse really makes it harder with humans so his name is wahim georg kroll he was born april 17th 1933 in hindenburg um near the polish border of nazi germany born

into a mining family wahim had either eight or nine siblings depending on the source there's not much from his childhood but a lot of articles feature the information that that as a young child he frequently wet the bed and more alarmingly was said to have sexually abused animals oh shit okay yeah um so as we know this is part of uh the mcdonald triad which is a set of it's a theory that there's a set of childhood behaviors that can point to violent tendencies later in life do you remember the third one fun pop quiz oh okay so you cruelty to animals bedwetting um uh don't tell me i won't i mean it's not just like that there's a head injury, right? Or is that what you're talking about? Okay.

I'm going to feel so silly when I hear it, but what is it? Arson. Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. So those are the three that are often pointed to as potential precursors to a more violent adulthood. Okay. What?

Yeah. Yes. So he's setting things on fire as well. No, he's not. he's bedwetting and sexually abusing animals oh that was just a fun little quiz for me that was just part that these two were part of the two things he did were part of the mcdonald triad and then the third was the quiz for you just yeah okay i just i didn't know if that was coming up later and we'd be like aha there's the no that was just to see if if i don't know that was me trying to add some levity

to the conversation. Thank you. I love a little trivia and I will get an A next time. Okay, great. I'll hold you to it. So when Kroll was very young, his father was forced into the German army where the Russian army took his dad as a prisoner of war

and he never returned home. I'm sure that triggered not so good things either. Yeah, it did not help. No. And so when this happened, Kroll, his siblings, remember he has like eight or nine siblings, moved into a small two-bedroom apartment where, like a lot of other people during this time, suffered of severe hunger and poverty. Jesus. At school, Kroll was always observed to be much smaller than other students. He was often bullied for having a low IQ.

It seems from a couple of sources that his IQ was around 76 or 78. And apparently he didn't quite know how to read. So he was struggling in all aspects of life. And by age 15 in 1948, he had repeated quite a few grades at school and decided he was going to leave school and become a farmhand instead okay so he became a farmhand which sounds all well and good uh until years later we found out that during this time as a farmhand uh as a teenager he realized as he witnessed pigs being slaughtered he discovered that blood sexually aroused him so okay that was kind of his turning point of aha i found my new hobby i like okay well i wonder what his realization of that looked like like i hope was part of him like this is odd or you know i

wonder what i know side of that experience was or I imagine it was probably like, I didn't expect that, but here we are. I don't know. Yeah. Sick. So he'd later reveal there was one woman who remains anonymous. Good for her. Who he began dating around this time as well. So Film Daily reports that Kroll would feel shown up by this relationship because he felt awkward and inadequate because the only sexual

encounter he had with this woman he was dating at the time was quote a failure and because of this oh my god kroll made his own executive decision that he'd only have sexual encounters with people who in his own words could not complain about his performance oh no oh god okay yeah okay it's just so bad so it started off all well and good he began by buying sex toys and gadgets and inflatable sex dolls uh whom he would strangle for pleasure okay it starts with dolls so you know if it stayed there fine but unfortunately we know it doesn't so yeah i was gonna say nothing wrong with doing whatever you want with the doll but keep it at the doll but like maybe yeah that's draw a line somewhere draw a line somewhere yeah um so when his mother died at age 22 apparently he like fully snapped and kind of went off the rails so speaking to

police in 1976 Kroll remembered his first attack to have happened in February 1955 which was the month after his mother died when he strangled murdered and then raped a 19 year old woman named Irmgard Strahl in a barn uh there's so many german words here sorry uh in a barn near ludenhausen near wahlstätte nobody needs to know that but it's but we all enjoyed it but we all enjoyed it did we that's the levity we're looking for right now yeah just let me distract you with a lot of sounds coming out of my mouth um so irmgard was a 19 year old runaway and had been lured by kroll into the barn and he told her he had a precious gift for her oh god i know so five days later her body was found it had been severely disemboweled crucially no evidence seemed to have been left behind for police to find so even though

i guess he has a low iq it's not that low to. He's figuring some things out. Yeah, he's not dumb enough to like get caught right away, which is a real fucking bummer. So this murder was followed a year later by the 1956 murder of Erica Shuleta. She's a 12 year old. And he raped and strangled her. And he had been known. I don't know why i'm surprised every time i keep going no but but it's like it needs a reaction you know it's like it can't not have a reaction because it's also like that's true it's horrific yeah yeah it is a genuine reaction and then later i'm like why what did i think was going to happen like he said no more

of this and i know the zoo like now that would have gotten a reaction wow you know what no matter what there's going to be a reaction i know oh i wish so he'd been known within his neighborhood to hand out candy to local children um as well as show the young girls his doll collection that he had okay i hate that and so yeah and so that's how he lured erica in the 12 year old girl he said he had some dolls to show her so behind closed doors kroll would then use these dolls as part of his disgusting sexual fantasies it was said oh okay it's just so bad i'm sorry what didies, it was said... Oh, okay. It's just so bad. I'm sorry.

What did he do? It was said that after he'd murdered the children, he would go home to, like, continue these acts on the dolls and relive the violent acts over and over. Oh, ew. So, like, they were all individual souvenirs or something? No, he would, like it kill somebody and then come home and like reenact it over and over again with the dolls right but it feels like that's kind of like the same thing as like having a souvenir from a murder but it's like oh yeah yeah like he's like reliving it right yeah yeah yeah like a trophy type thing yeah okay um so though kroll

would say that between 1956 and 1959 he didn't commit any more murders police don't believe it and think they just haven't linked him to those murders hey i immediately also agree and uh yeah i don't think they're wrong yeah i think it was worse than we think it was and it's already pretty fucking bad okay so it was in 1959 that kroll moved to duisburg where he lived on friesenstrasse which was the one that i mentioned in bullet number one where they were going from house to house on the street and they found oscar who was like hey my neighbor's being really right okay cool so he moved there in 59 and he worked as a lavatory assistant and lavatory assistant. And. Lavatory assistant? Yeah. Like a janitor?

No. So this is a German thing, I guess. Oh, okay. Oh, like a person who gives you like a paper towel when you wash your hands. Not quite. So in Germany, the bathrooms are, you often have to pay for them, like public bathrooms, but they have people constantly there who clean them like right after they're used. So they're like always extremely clean. Oh, okay.

It's a nice setup. It's very German. It's like you pay like 25 cents or something, and then you get like a really clean, nice public bathroom. It's a very good setup in my opinion. That's so nice. Wow, that's a great job. I thought you at first said laboratory assistant.

I went, okay. And then I went, she said that weird. Laboratory. up in my nice wow that's a great job i thought you at first said laboratory assistant i went okay and then i went she said that weird laboratory and i was like it's kind of like september september is it lab or lav anyway in german a laboratory and a lavatory they're all the same no also like how american is it that my thought of like the only thing you could possibly be a lavatory assistant for is like handing someone a paper towel well i mean you know that's part of it too refilling the paper towels like i mean that happens too like it does here i had no idea that they had such a quick efficient system it's well hello who do you think we're talking about it's the germans here man if anyone's gonna do it yeah it's very like even if

you stop at like a rest stop like their their rest stops or truck stops or whatever are really really nice and uh you go and you can use the bathroom and they have someone there who's constantly keeping it like really clean and nice and then when you leave like sometimes you get a token for like a free coca-cola oh my god that's so nice wait so you get rewarded for making some poops oh my god oh my god we should go to germany you would love it i at least would love the bathrooms also yeah it's really nice i feel like i feel bad for that person when it's like a stinky situation well it's also awkward when you're the person who did that and you're like sorry oh yeah like i wish i could warn you away yeah could you tell them like can you stay

outside for a second and then like because like you're gonna what if you make a lot of noise and they just are there for the ride that's the downside and i don't like that part but that's the downside for the pooper not the poopy for both yeah oh yeah true and like there have been times where i've been like they're like standing outside the stall and i'm like all right this is a little close for comfort you know like i guess it's kind of like going to like a doctor where like for you, it feels really invasive. They've seen everything.

They're like, I do this all the time. Yeah, that's true. I wonder if they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're sitting in there for a few minutes. Like, that's not really that wild. What do you think we're all thinking you're doing? Right. Yeah.

Oh, I mean, fair point. Also, I wonder what the sorry. I wonder what the dangers are of that. If you're like at a road stop in the middle of nowhere, like how many of those people get like mugged or hurt i don't know everything's very like at least it's all very tip-top shape it's not really like run down and rugged yeah it's not like you know you don't picture like an abandoned gas station here where it's like an outhouse in the middle of nowhere i don't know this is my experience which is arguably limited so i don't totally know but anyway i have a lot

of questions obviously i just if anyone is a german lavatory assistant can you dm me because i got things to ask yeah yeah but dm me too because i don't want you just dming em and saying like christine was wrong or something i want to be in on the conversation because i'm worried i fucked it up and i don't want to get everybody upset i think i'm pretty i mean that's my experience with it but yeah so i'm assuming that's what his job was um as a lavatory assistant okay so according to a website called serial killer calendar great i just need you to react to that okay oh okay i mean that's like honestly that's our job where that's like that's the doctor with the invasive stuff that's me being

like yeah yeah serial killer okay what am i supposed to react to what do you think you're what do i think you're gonna say okay here oh my god whoa whoa whoa okay i'm trying to add levity you always ask me to add levity so i say serial killer calendar i figure at least you could be like here's the here's what i would like to know first who is june oh who is the month of june yeah let me check that's a good question i bet it's fucking john wayne gacy i bet it's ed gein i don't know why i bet it's ted bundy he was a gemini let's find out oh my god massive hardcover collector's edition of serial killer magazine okay uh you know they're not gonna tell me month by month well then i don't know what to tell you i don't like super love

this it's a little asking for a friend though if anyone does make a podcast or calendar can we be june can i be june can we be june we'll be the twins oh wait a minute someone someone make a podcast please just make us june that's all we want can i be all the other months too oh okay well yeah and and there's the gemini part of it actually someone just make a calendar of us thank you so much okay sorry so there's there's serial killer there's serial killer calendar yes is the website and they make like big books about serial killers so according to this website kroll was known by local children as uncle wahim so they called him uncle like he handed out candy to the kids in the

neighborhood just grody because he handed out the toys candy and dolls he kept in his apartment despite the rules of the building kroll invited all the children into his home feeling they were his true friends big woof uh kroll loved attention from the young girls that played in the area treating them as his own nieces that's not how you treat nieces that is the opposite i got a niece i got a few of them and you know what that's not it that's not it my friend how we do it that's not the funko lifestyle you know no no no no so for years wahim lived on this friesenstrasse indulging the young children with treats and little gifts, and parents of the local families remember him as a pleasant and thoughtful man who seemed to

want a family of his own. Oh my god. Big, big yikes. So on March 24th, 1959, he struck again. He attacked a 23-year-old woman who was experiencing homelessness her name was erica and according to a website called magic.be she was spotted by kroll in a tavern in the old part of dwisbuk and invited for a walk suddenly he hit her with his fist and started strangling her oh geez she lost consciousness and when she woke up he had disappeared so fortunately she did manage to survive unlike a lot of his victims right um so unfortunately a couple months later kroll attacked again murdering 24 year old clara tesmer uh in the reinhausen woods in basically the spot where he left erica so it was sort of like she had survived

and so he like redid it with another person oh like all the way down to the location which is kind of like he left her in the same spot he needed to cross it off his list yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah bad so five boys out on their bicycles discovered her body and the police were quickly called to the crime scene but because this is a running pattern that happens here a man known as gunter k was the person last seen with clara um and because he was unable to provide an alibi he was locked up for her murder instead oh my god and like and did he ever get released or anything or like so ever find out so thankfully after six months a final inquest was held and he was able to prove his innocence and was released okay i mean still terrible he spent six months

in prison for murder that amanda knox bullshit right right stuck in jail and he didn't do anything and so many other stories of like yeah uh uh going to jail yeah yeah exactly um so by this point all three known victims had been subject to kroll's ever-growing mo which included targeting young women or girls before strangling and then raping them so his mo adjusted uh oh my god when he murdered 16 year old manuela knott in the eston forest okay this is where just things again escalate so manuela's body was found naked in some bushes it was evident she had been strangled and raped he had masturbated over her body and taken chunks of her chunks of what oh my god with him chunks of her with him yeah they were gone

what so at the time they didn't know who did it but like pieces of her were missing yeah that i got like where to clarify i mean what like her face like her do we doesn't it doesn't matter it doesn't we don't know we don't know um we don't know but it says part of her buttocks and thighs and jesus skin yeah and how did he i mean again doesn't matter but like when they said chunks like i'm wondering if it's like i don't know they just took he just took a knife and took slices of her yeah my god okay very gruesome um he later admitted that on that day was when he tried cannibalism out on a whim. Oh, okay. Just a casual whim, you know?

Right, yeah. Because he had parts of her on him, so he was just like, I might as well taste one. I think it was like, oh, I'm going to try this. So then he took parts of her with him. Oh, so the intention was, I am bringing this back to cook it. Yeah. Okay. So they later

found out why there were pieces of her missing basically um similar to the case of clara tesmer kroll was never originally suspected in fact the police thought this was the work of a gang of perverts in town oh no just one pervert actually, big pervert, right. And he would continue to murder and eat his victims. That was his new M.O., something he would later justify because... What? And why do you think he did that? What do you think his excuse was, his reasoning? I don't...

I don't... I... I don't know. Religion? Is it a belief system now? No, his grocery bills were too high. Oh, for fuck's sake. Okay.'t know. Religion? Is it a belief system now? No, his grocery bills were too high. Oh, for fuck's sake. Okay. I know.

That's why? That's literally what he said. He said meat was too expensive, so he reckoned he would just eat humans. My meat bill is also wildly high, to be clear. And I can tell you, I still don't want to eat a human. Yeah, I don't think that's it's like that guy i covered recently where he said like oh i was just doing it for money and it's like buddy we all know you weren't doing it for money like you were doing it for other sick reasons like don't pretend this is for grocery bills like don't act like this is budget friendly right exactly what we're doing here you saw this on pinterest yeah you're full this was on like

extreme couponers or something listicle somewhere yeah so that's what he said later i mean at this point we they still think it's just a gang of perverts or a guy named gunter so they don't know yet but the reason that kroll was able to murder 14 people over 20 years is because pretty much every time other men were found guilty for his murders wow he's like the king of like not even having to come up with an alibi evading it yeah and and the wild part is m a lot of them turn themselves in what i know sickos even like i'm so confused so what on earth was their motivation nobody knows that's so wild it's like some criminal mind shit of like, this person just needs to be, get attention, notoriety. Like, who knows?

Oh my God. Wow. That just lets you know how many sickos there are out there. Like, you didn't even do this and yet you want to be known as the person who eats people. The sickos who aren't even eating children are like, yep, that was me. Like, why? I don't know. Yeah. So February 13th, 1960, 24-year-old Horst Otto strutted into the Essen police station

and confessed to Manuela's murder. He was promptly arrested and convicted to eight years in prison because of this confession. Wow. He just walked in and said it was me. And they were like, okay, eight years in prison, which is so shitty, too, because now this other guy's like, great, I got away with it. I'll do it again, you know. So another local man from the area, a mechanic called Heinrich Ott, also turned himself in for one of Kroll's murders.

This time it was the 1959 murder of Clara. And while he's awaiting trial, he hangs himself. So clearly there's some mental health issues happening here. That's what it sounds like. Yeah. so clearly there's some mental health issues happening here that's what it sounds like yeah yeah and so these confessions uh are just like helping him get away with these crimes because can you imagine like multiple times doing this and yeah that someone else like voluntarily took the heat for you you're like thanks buddy oh my god like what a hero again thank you yeah and it's like and then the guy dies by suicide.

So at this point, he can't take it back. Like they just think he did it and then he died. And that's that. Case closed. So it's not for years that they find out he actually did it. So it's just wild. So this plus the fact that Kroll was able to cover his crimes by A, people in different ways and be doing it in different parts of the country um and not always using cannibalism spicing it up i guess uh he was able

to get away with this so the only consistency in each crime was the aggressive sexual nature inflicted after death and when there was cannibal, there were crudely removed parts of the bodies. So those were the only like. It's weird that like he's still able to control himself from not needing to eat people. But he's still like you would think it's like part of the general compulsion or like something that he has to do. But like he doesn't even need to do that every time. So yeah, I feel like that just doesn't. I feel like that's such an active decision of his of like oh yeah like wow matt i might as well eat this one like what made that person well the grocery bills were high at that week you know oh right in town with like only one grocery store it was a whole foods

obviously yes it's like the logic is so flawed and well the lack of logic i guess and police at this time weren't sure like why these body parts they didn't know about the cannibalism so they're thinking like maybe it was like a trophy that he's removing parts of the body which i guess sort of it is that yeah i guess in a way or trophy that you're eating it i guess yeah yeah sick um so according to um an article by all that's interesting other killers operating in in West Germany had the police distracted. In the years before Joachim Kroll began killing, Werner Bust had begun murdering couples in the area starting in the 50s. off kroll's track because there were other active serial killers so he was able to kind of cover up his tracks by also kind of copying what other local killers were doing and like hiding behind them i mean i definitely don't want to give him credit but that is a smart tactic of like

there's already a serial killer that they're looking for i can just do whatever the fuck i want no one would be looking for me like they're already distracted looking for this one guy and if yeah exactly they can just lump this crime in with his other ones so because of these factors including these men like sacrificing themselves up to admit to these crimes they didn't do kroll was still roaming the streets of dweespuak apparently he had a moped and he would just drive around looking for victims wow yeah also like not the greatest getaway situation no like you can't like like at least with a with a car like you can hide the person you're trying to true what are you gonna do like throw them over your shoulder and everyone watches them screaming also balance with one hand on a moped while a body's flinging everywhere like that it doesn't

make a it's just that part isn't very wise if you're gonna try to get away with those yeah i think even if you do convince a woman or a girl to come with you willingly people would still see them with you i would think even if they're alive maybe that was part of maybe he actually was like like more of a like a schmoozer or like more charming and like they thought they were going on a date with him or something and then he drove like more of a schmoozer or like more charming. And like they thought they were going on a date with him or something. And then he drove them into the middle of nowhere. But that's what I'm saying. Like he did do that.

And that's what I'm saying. But wouldn't they, people still say, oh, the last person I saw her with was that guy on the moped. You know what I mean? Like, even if they went willingly,

it was still like, there would still be witnesses. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question.

My guess is he probably just couldn't afford a car, but I don't know i don't know that's a good question my guess is he probably just couldn't afford a car but i don't know i mean he clearly is like money money on the mind so yeah yeah right the grocery bill budgeting um so anyway on easter monday april 23rd 1962 13 year old petra giza was raped and killed she had been visiting a fair with her friend that day oh i know and she was found the following day amongst some bushes she had been strangled with her own scarf and someone had removed her buttocks her left forearm and her hand oh my god wow this is really fucking it's really bad um and police were quick to point their finger at the guy they knew did it a local pedophile and sex offender named vincent's coon so a whole nother guy they were like that's the

one who did it i don't know like i mean it's just he's a this is a very lucky killer lucky yeah very lucky because this guy was arrested and imprisoned for the murder right away. And they were like, we got him. He did it. No question. Like, very convenient, but also so horrible. Yes. So two months later, only two months at this point, June 11th of 62, Monica Toffle was found via police helicopter in a cornfield in Walsum, having been strangled to death.

Parts of her body were missing. Kroll had spotted Monica on the way to school on June 4th and dragged her into the field. Again, the flesh of her buttocks had been removed. And this time, a 34-year-old pedophile named Walter Quicker was accused of the murder. Are you kidding me? I know. And it's kind of like, God, there are so many of these guys running around that are so easy to blame also whatever the name of that other cannibal was who said that the butt actually tasted really bad right oh yeah that was so gross which is so interesting that this person

now keeps taking people's like meat off of their butt so i, I mean, just, it's just a interesting fact of like, I don't, I don't really know what the point is. It's just interesting that I've, the last person said that butts don't taste good, but this person like seems to only be going for that. I'm surprised if this is like his first time, I guess it's not his first time anymore,

but if he's doing this nonstop or enough times that he could be trying different pieces it feels like he already went in knowing what he wanted or maybe it's like what's quick quickest well that he can like run away faster also a hand like i don't know yeah i wonder i mean it really it it doesn't matter but in terms of like being meticulous of with his thinking like is he just going for what's the fastest you can grab off of a body? Or what genuinely tastes good? Because then I think if you're not going off of what tastes good versus what's the fastest, like I feel like there's a conversation there about like power.

Like, I don't know why. I feel like if you're, I don't know. I'm really getting in my own head about this. No, no, it's interesting. And I feel like he clearly this was not a well person. So I feel like I doubt in my head that it was like, oh, I'm going to make a great feast tonight. It's more just like about the like about reliving the kill. Like it probably didn't matter to him as much about what it actually tasted like than the fact that he could like take something from the body and like reuse it i don't know

like the psychology of that yeah i just i wish i knew and i i wish i understood more like under the hood of his thinking like yeah i know it's so stupid like oh why why not this part of body versus this part of the body but i feel like with someone like that you've got a reason for those things i mean my guess would be what you said of like it would just be easier quicker access to take certain parts and he would just do what he could and leave i don't know but i don't know anyway i was getting really in my head about that but i'm just first of all i'd like to know why the fuck you're willing to eat a person but then i end up tangenting to too much yeah i mean i think there's a lot of dark layers that can be unpacked there yes you're correct right so

they had arrested this 34 year old local pedophile named walter uh quicker thinking he had done it but they had to release him when they couldn't find any evidence to time to the crime scene so despite uh said lack of evidence his neighbors were quick to insist that they knew it was walter oh shit even his wife divorced him over it and was like yeah he did it uh so he i mean to be fair he was apparently a local pedophile so like he already had a bad rap sheet you know oh okay he this isn't his first rodeo here with like the police and everything so i imagine maybe this was the point where his family and friends were like well he's done it before okay that makes it i don't think it was out of nowhere but i just thought people

got a weird vibe and everyone ganged up on him the wife was like never mind yeah i don't know but i think since he was already known as a local pedophile there was clearly some sure already yeah yes so it got to the point where shops refused to serve walter quicker and locals would heckle him in the streets he was bullied so relentlessly that he died by suicide um oh my god and hanged himself in a forest uh near his home so it's just there's just tragedy left and right with this story. Yeah, and he's not even the first person in this story to die by suicide. No.

It feels like a lot of people that are getting the heat for him are all doing that. Yeah, true, true. All the branches coming off of this story have really tragic ends too. So on September 3rd, 1962, 12-year-old Barbara Bruder went missing. She was last seen on her way to a playground, but never arrived at the playground. Kroll later confessed to strangling and raping her.

However, her body was never found, so he was never charged with her murder. It's terrible. He literally said he did it, and they couldn't charge him with it. So it's like terrible he literally said he did it and they couldn't charge him with it oh my god unsolved um very very horrible yeah so for the next three years it would seem that kroll made the decision to lay low unless there were crimes that he just never talked about or we could never find which is possible um apparently in the meantime they think sources think that he satisfied his needs with his inflatable dolls he apparently had a lot of hi-fi like equipment that he would use and they saw him hauling it around with his moped oh i don't know apparently they were like he just

did weird shit in his apartment so maybe that's how he got by for three years without attacking any real humans. But it wasn't the end because August 22nd of 1965, Kroll was in Großenbaum wandering around a lover's lane when he spotted a couple having sex in the front seat of their car. So he, this is so weird. He snuck up to the car. He, like, I guess on the ground so they couldn't see him and he stabbed one of the tires with a knife to deflate it wow and i guess they didn't see that he did that they were i guess distracted really in the moment yes in the moment and then he like crawled away and called to the car for help and pretending he had hurt himself.

And so when the 25-year-old man, Hermann Schmitz, got out of the car to check on Kroll to see if he was okay, he sprung onto him and stabbed him twice in the heart. Oh, shit. Just out of nowhere. So Marion Veen, who was Herman's partner, tragically watched as Herman was literally just stabbed to death in front of her like seconds after they were just in the car together oh my god and curl had a clear plan he was going to kill and rape marion next but she jumped in the car in the front seat honked the horn repeatedly and drove the car at full speed despite the flat tire aiming at Kroll good he wasn't physically harmed um he was able to run away like before the car hit him um and she was not physically harmed either because she you know escaped his clutches basically but she held Herman in her arms as he passed away and

Herman it's just really awful and Herman would end up being kroll's only male victim so and it was just to get to her so fortunately with the incessant honking other drivers had like you know heard this and so she got their attention so they arrived at the crime scene and somebody went and called police unfortunately there were no clear traces of kroll left behind and even though marion gave a clear description of him they just like the leads dried up and he escaped once again jesus oh my god how many years has this been by now good question so this is let's see 1965 65 yeah and um he's not caught until 76 so we still have halfway story to go because it's like a 20 year murder span so we're about halfway through the crap time span yeah i mean there's there's

not as much story left like don't worry everybody we only have like a page of story left but no no no no that's not what we didn't mean it like that we didn't mean like that we just like it's like wow like how does he keep evading any trouble this whole time you just wonder like is karma even real if this just keeps well also like like his confidence level like his cockiness must be out the oh absolutely are you kidding me like for him to think like oh well i've done it for x amount of years at this point like and what yeah people are like random men are literally giving up their lives saying they did my crimes for no reason they don't know me like what that's really that's where the psychologist uh in me wants to go oh learn about those people's stories and be

like why the fuck did you do that and like do you realize you're harming other people by saying you did it and then letting him walk free like it's not just you you're throwing under the bus like yeah it's just it's it's it's wild i i imagine there's a lot of question over uh why or how that happens or anyway so he was very close to being caught so they think this is why he laid low for a while because it was um a year until he attacked again september 13th 1966 20 year old ursula rolling was strangled to death in first bush park uh in marl and um he sexually assaulted her uh and left her there and then went home and said he did things with his dolls. And I'm just going to leave it at that. Fair enough. So notably, Marl is further from Duisburg than Kroll had previously ever traveled to commit a murder.

So for this reason, police didn't suspect him at all. What a shock. They seem to just not even care. Yeah. Like, this isn't a surprise, again. And arrested a man called Adolf Schickel who was ursula's boyfriend at the time and they thought he was the culprit um so they had to let him go for lack of evidence but everyone thought he was guilty so he was driven out of town which is like your

girlfriend just got murdered and raped and you got accused and now everyone thinks it was you and you get driven out of town like that's horrible can you imagine just like talk about a whirlwind day on top of everything else so on january 4th of 67 um because oh my god because of this hostility he was facing from everybody who thought he did it guess what this guy uh adolf schickel who was barbara's boyfriend drowned himself in the river well that makes like what three people now near wiesbaden yeah that's the third guy who like third person affiliated tangentially to this story that died by suicide geez yeah um the first guy he was the one who went in and confessed out of nowhere right right and then he in the jail cell he did it right yes yes and then the second two were both accused by police wow um so three months later on december

22nd of 66 kroll abducted a five-year-old girl called alona hark from essen he took her via train to wuppertal where he strangled raped raped, drowned, and butchered her. I'm sorry. His luck nearly ran out, I say nearly, in 1967 when he briefly settled in a town called Grafenhausen befriending local children who also

began to call him uncle. Oh god. He's such a sicko, this man. And nobody's... Okay. Nobody's like, I need to relax. Oh, that's okay nobody's like i need to relax kind of creepy i need to relax because i'm getting worked no but i'm with you just like how has this much time passed and like he's not even he's barely on a radar and on any radar and all the townsfolk are like oh he just loves kids it's like again god again with the level of cockiness he must have though because it's like not only am i not getting caught but also like the children love me and it's like oh my god again with the level of cockiness he must have though because it's like not only am i not getting caught but also like the children love me and it's just giving me

more and more like i don't know ammo is not the right word but i i have access yeah i'm getting more and more access as the days go on with no doubt or question from people like he's not like the weirdo in town like no one suspects him it's it's wild he's a fucking pillar is what i'm trying to say here uh-huh and i feel like everyone's minds are going to be blown when they realize it's him and they're going to be like uncle he was such a nice guy always with that nonsense yeah again i'm not blaming these people it's not their job to know who's like hurting no we're blaming how the world just how it just spins sometimes so how it spins in the wrong way sometimes the world spins a little crazy and no and how assholes like this

can just get away with being like humungo creeps with their just pisses me off causing damage left and right can you imagine being one of those children later and being like i spent time with that man like i was in his house you know you imagine being a parent to one of those children later and being like, I spent time with that man. Like, I was in his house, you know. Can you imagine being a parent to one of those children later? Yeah. Yeah, being like, I didn't know. I mean, oh my God. The guilt that they'll have for having, like, no awareness of it.

Terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's so scary. So he, on June 22nd of 67, he lured a 10-year year old girl named Gabrielle Putman to a nearby field one afternoon. Oh, my God. He promised to show her a rabbit. And that's how he got her to go to the field with him.

I mean, it's the most cliche tropes that he's pulling out. And I hate. We just talked about this, too. We did. We were like, I can't believe that sometimes that still works like yeah because i guess it just has always been the go-to move like it just and like i'm pretty sure like i mean i like to think i would have used better judgment but if i were a kid and someone said like i have a puppy like i can't promise i wouldn't want to go look at the puppy you know a lot of these people are smart and are like oh I have like the exact toy you're

like the exact Hot Wheels car you're looking for or um I have another friend for you who wants to play a game with you like who knows you know they're not they're smart and devious and like this is back in the 60s you know in the 80s was when all this like stranger danger panic happened right so like before then i don't think this was even really a thought on people's radar yeah yeah um so he told her there was a rabbit um instead he produced obscene pornographic photos the child was horrified he was hoping she wouldn't be but she was what did he think would happen she'd be into it yeah he apparently hoped she would be aroused by it god uh she was horrified understandably um she bolted for safety and uh he made a grab for her throat

but he fled town before police could start like digging into who did this because she was left in a coma unconscious for eight days. Oh, God. So. So did she wake up and she was able to tell who it was? No. So I don't think or I don't know if she ever told who it was or, like, knew who it was. or I don't know if she ever told who it was or like knew who it was but um he left town I guess it's a time before they could just track his cell phone or something he left town before they could even like come be like what were you doing with her over there in the field he just fucking

peaced before yeah before they could ask any questions and so once this happened he laid low for two years in hiding because he was like shit i was very close to getting caught so he was like probably rattled him and like yes for a second of like for a goddamn minute yeah exactly so even though he she survived and he didn't get caught he was like almost caught so he laid low for two years um and against his mo crawl this time in 1969 he's 36 he targets a 61 year old woman oh that's new yeah it's like a totally different mo um who's wandering a tourist resort in the south of essen that's the town my grandpa lives in fun fact uh just some light-hearted side fun facts yeah um mine was

from brooklyn but okay cool cool cool yeah after he tried to strike up a conversation with her which she declined he hit her and then raped and strangled her to death wow and police found her body in the bushes the following day a year later on may 21st of 1970 kroll noticed the 13 year old yota ran on the train in breitscheidt and he followed her off the train and into the woods which usually went through as a shortcut to get home and then when he followed her into the woods he strangled her as well he goes right back from zero to 60 he's like i'll try this like other thing and then he he's like never mind he's like i know what i'm really here for i can't hide anymore yeah so so did he ever

did we ever hear him talk about that 61 year old woman because i feel like that is a very different change for no it's not really brought up it's just kind of a random outlier and it makes you wonder like was he trying to switch up his mo because he had almost gotten caught with that child right the last sounds like what it would be right yeah that's my guess is he was like trying to because then he went right back to children again so it's like yeah i don't know if he's trying to switch it up i don't know i don't know i don't know um but so yuta who he had just 13 year old who he just killed in the woods um her neighbor and apparently boyfriend who was 20 year old peter shea um 20 year old 13 year old

a little questionable but whatever i think honestly at this point at this point right there's nothing that's not questionable about about this entire episode so about every bullet that i read yes yeah so he was brought into custody uh he spent 15 months in prison for her murder and rape 15 years or 15 months months okay i mean so bad but you know not 15 years i guess but he was released because of lack of evidence and then kroll wouldn't act again until 76 and this would be his penultimate murder of 10 year old Karen Tepfa who he killed on May 8th while she was on her way to school unfortunately he wouldn't be charged with her murder because of a lack of evidence and now like the times he's finally getting we're getting somewhere it's still lack of evidence it's still like they just can't pin anything to him and it's like i know there's not dna back then but like

anything fingerprints nothing he leaves nothing this guy's like he's like he's even good for today's age which is yeah awful it's terrible to even think about so we're now months before the world would find out about this the roar hunter that nobody even realized was pinned to all these fucking murders at once which must have been shocking the cops must have felt real wild about find out about this the roar hunter that nobody even realized was pinned to all these fucking murders at once which must have been shocking the cops must have felt real wild about right like oh shit how did we not fucking catch this there were like six people who got pinned and like either died by suicide got let go or in prison for this oh my god i can't imagine the feeling yeah so on july 3rd 1976 which was where we started police were brought to friesenstrasse because four-year-old four-year-old i can't i can't even

makes me sick uh marion letter had been missing and that is when they found part of her body in the drain as we talked about right as well as in the pot and according to murderpedia a plumber quickly verified the statement oh my god here we go oh my god the plumber flushed okay i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry a plumber flushed a child's lungs and other organs out of holy crap and detectives went calling on curl in his apartment they discovered plastic bags of human flesh stored in the freezer on the stove a tiny hand was boiling in a pot with carrots and potatoes and convinced that they had bagged the hunter. Officers were stunned by what we said, his long running litany of rape and murder all over the country that they just hadn't connected. And they

had finally caught the man. So it's just like i can't even breathe it's so upsetting um neighbors couldn't believe hey fun fact that this pillar of the community who they thought was so kind and generous and the local uncle handing out candy to everybody was actually a convicted serial killer boy they pillar to killer indeed so he was taken into custody and questioned immediately um this wasn't a difficult task because kroll was literally like i said at the beginning like ready to fucking rumble and tell them everything he ever did um as serial killer calendar elaborates he made a very detailed confession which included how well here we go okay the bodies of very young children were the best meat he was able to find oh well there you have that okay uh he offered

the police so much information that he even as evidenced by a picture taken which we can also put in the instagram uh he would have the police take him back to these crime scenes like in the woods and stuff and he would reenact them for police purposes oh my god which is like horrible because there's probably a line of like he wants to reenact these but also like they need the evidence i don't know i feel like he also partially was hoping that like one cop would like praise would be impressed yeah exactly because it's it's so sick but he was clearly like watch what i did you know he's like i'm proud of himself um and so there's like a gross picture of him like like leaning over a guy like this is how i did it oh fucking i feel

like he wanted to he wanted praise i feel like he went some sort of like validation yeah which i think must be why at the end he was like i did all of them yeah even the ones that all these other people said they did I did them you know yeah truly he could have gotten away with it but now he wants to like yeah like he didn't have to admit to all of those he could have kept his mouth shut and yet he didn't so exactly I don't know what he was thinking exactly so he was charged with a total of eight murders and one attempted murder in a trial that began october 4th in 1979 the trial lasted for 151 days and after the trial he was convicted and given nine life sentences wow but guess what this idiot this is how dumb this man is and this is why it pisses me off that he wasn't

caught for so long he was shocked when he got nine life sentences because he thought if you confessed to the killings he wouldn't be incarcerated for them because like if you plead innocent or if you if you like if you admit to it then you don't have to like do the time which is like wait what so like maybe he thought like being guilty meant like guilty of lying like was that what you thought like exactly and so what he thought was that authorities would quote get him the help he needed to stop killing if he admitted that he did it he didn't think he would have to go to jail well that's i mean i'm not gonna say that is the first illogical thing he thought yeah fair point he seems to have it tracks yeah it's it tracks that

he's not a thinker so he's not the brightest which pisses me off again because it's like how did he get away with so many lucky shots to a point too we're like we have we've i don't i was gonna say we always say we have said in the past so like if we could go back in time and like solve crimes like it would be pretty easy if you just like knew like if you had like you could bring all the dna stuff from today back then yeah and we still wouldn't be able to solve it if he like he wasn't even leaving any evidence or anything well i mean maybe he left dna but they didn't have dna that's true maybe that was something they couldn't solve it but it's still frustrating that like everything they had at the time never picked up on a single

thing yeah or they just decided they knew who did it and didn't even question it they were like no we know who did it couldn't be this random guy so curl died of a heart attack at age 58 in 1991 in the prison of reinbach near bonn and he didn't even make it to 60 nope so he just got to do all of this wait so how old was he when he when he got sentenced um so let's see he got sentenced in 79 and he died when in 91 so he spent like about 10 11 years in prison so that's it even though it was technically a nine nine life he was there for like nine years and then just like went yeah and i like to think maybe the nine life sentences are being served in the afterlife i don't know sure sure we can hope we can hope something at least some sort of learning lesson i don't know but that's like that definitely doesn't feel like any version of

justice justice only really had to go to jail for nine years especially when you hear about like the case of barbara whoever who like he said he did it and they still couldn't pin it on him and so now her family has to go with like an unsolved technically unsolved case it's just so tragic so I'm so sorry that I did that and that this is probably the last episode we'll record before I go into labor

sorry this is what you'll remember me on bye I'm so sorry I'm so sorry the timing was not great with that one that uh that was your call my friend but you know i know it was gonna have to be done eventually i guess i was i was gonna say like i'm just glad i didn't do it for halloween yesterday while i was dressed up like it would have just been that would have been rough that would have been rough yeah yeah when we're all

trying to be happy about it candy yeah let me tell you a trivia game yeah let's talk about our favorite candy it's like that's it just wasn't gonna fly so oh well thank you for what you did even though i didn't like it yeah you don't look happy with me actually you look pretty pissed i'm so sorry i look pissed well you were you said, thank you for that. In a very, like, stern parent way. Thank you for the trauma, I guess. Yeah, you're welcome. But other than that, so you think this is the last one? Because you could be going.

I mean, I don't know anymore. It's like, at this point, I just don't want to hang my hopes on anything. But, I mean, I'm not feeling good. So I'm like. You think you're going to go to the hospital tonight? Probably not tonight. Maybe tomorrow. We'll see question have you been able to take a nap at all and like sleep through it have you been in like immense pain this whole time no I'm just uncomfortable and it like doesn't

stop which usually it like after like 10 hours it'll like go away and it's been much longer than that so I'm it just hasn't stopped so So I'm like, maybe it'll just keep going. We'll see. We'll see. I'll also be like at my due date in like two days or three days. So it's getting like a lot closer. So the odds are going up at least. We'll see. Imagine if I was still there waiting for this baby to be born. You would never leave. I changed the flight like 11 times by now. never leave I changed the flight like 11 times by now you never have left well so by the time so assuming this is the last time we hear from you uh you're you will be back eventually because we gotta go on tour in January I know trust me I'm I'm ready man I'm excited I can't wait

I so that means I wonder when we'll be recording together again. I know. I mean, I imagine since I get a nice like solid several weeks off here, I'll be, you know, ready enough to get back into it. I have a story already prepped for the next one. That's not quite I mean, it's terribly tragic, but it's not quite as like awkwardly heinous. I was going to say, is it the horrible story of giving birth and that's gonna be a fun one. Yeah, that'll be the one everyone tunes out for. Well, thank you. Try to remember it. I know this will be tough for you. But try to remember giving birth to your first born baby. Because I'm gonna have a lot of questions when you get back. I'm gonna have

Oh my god, you think I'm having questions about cannibalism? Wait for him to talk about other we'll have a tell all I feel like I'd like to know every moment that. I'll tell you whatever you need to know. Maybe live stream it. I'd like to just be there. Maybe I'll live stream it to you. Maybe not to everyone. That's not what I meant.

I mean, TikTok and Instagram. Yeah. I would like a public live streamed birth. Can I monetize it? Who will sponsor it? I'm pretty sure there's some fertility thing that will absolutely sponsor that. So let's, if only we hadn't thought about that the day that you might be going into the hospital.

Damn it. Okay, we'll have, we'll make some calls. I want like a snack company to sponsor. I want like food to sponsor. Maybe a wine company of like finally. Oh, hell yeah. Never mind. Reunited and it feels so good

yeah yeah yeah wait till i'm not taking painkillers at the hospital then i'll then i'll indulge and do my little sponsorship endorsement well if this is the last time that that you're on here for a while it's gonna be it's gonna be weird having a podcast without you for a little bit i mean yeah it'll be weird for you. I'll be it. I'll finally have all the control. What if I'm replaced? What if I come back and everyone's like, no, it was way more fun without her. We'll find out the hard way, I guess. I guess this is the time. So we had to find out eventually if one of us was going to be kicked out. And one day I'll have to step away for a large amount of time and we'll see how people do with you as the oh god that might be the moment of like now christine really

needs to go she tried to do it by herself it didn't fly and also well we'll we'll see it also we did try to record enough in advance that you would be able to like no one would know but you know we're not the best planner so So, whatever. It's fine. We got five weeks ahead. That's pretty damn far. We got pretty far. That's five weeks of maternity for you. I love it.

I'll take it. All right. And that's why we drink.