And That's Why We Drink - E28 Fannie and the Floppy Disk

Episode Date: August 13, 2017

We've arrived with our compact discs, haphazardly!Welcome to episode 28, in which we discuss Louisiana's haunted Myrtles Plantation and the tragic murder of Rebecca Schaeffer by her celebrity stalker.(Oh, we also try and speak in Welsh, Christine explains badminton, and Em tells the story of her vanishing keys...)

Ready? No. Okay. I'll wait. That's like your favorite game to play ever since we came up with that. I'll wait. I'll wait. It's every bitchy teacher. I'm a third grade teacher. I'll wait. I'll wait. I wish. Never mind. No, say it. I don't know. No, I want to hear. I just started drinking my wine and imagining I was a third grade teacher and I was like i so would have been a teacher you would have been the teacher with like the the wine bra oh yes for sure usually like anyway on to chapter nine i do like writing writing on a good whiteboard, too, you know? Yeah, but remember before whiteboards, we had projectors. Those were good.

I mean, they were horrible. Right. But, like, they're a good thing to keep in the past. I found a floppy disk the other day. Did you? On the sidewalk. Oh. I was like, why is there a floppy disk here?

A teacher got really mad. Then I was like, maybe I should see what's on it. And then I'm like, in what world do I have something to there a floppy disk here a teacher got really mad then i was like maybe i should see what's on it and then i'm like in what world do i have something to put a floppy disk into the best part is we're probably the last generation to look at that and be like oh i know what that is i asked my sister i showed her one a few months ago and i said do you know what this is she goes no i was like oh no i felt real old. How are you? I'm okay. Okay, I'm happy. Good.

Do you want to know why? Of course. And it's also why I drink. Please. Because we hit half a million downloads. I can't believe it. You messaged me this morning and I was like, what? It was a good time. I told my dad and he's like, are you sure?

I was like, that's really rude. Everyone's like, but that can't be right. No. But that can't be right. You don't know how to count i was like fair but that m does so i do i know how to look at a chart and have the number told to me it's a special skill um why do you drink i'm just gonna skip over how you feel because you don't look great it's all combined you know i had my first migraine today ever yeah in 20 i mean how

old are you 30 shut the fuck up it's the first headache where i've been like this is not a normal headache at least that i've like acknowledged it i don't know i mean i probably have had them before but i get migraines all the time it sucks it was not a fun time and i was like what's happening to me was it the light sensitive ones like if and like a fly was buzzing in the room it hurts and i had to drive and i was like i can't do this so i had to go home and put on one of those like sleep mask things and just lie in the dark yeah yeah all you all you can do is sleep at that point it was very painful um but my body is rejecting me medically you're a fucking mess i was really worried for a minute that we were

going to have to record in the hospital. I thought about that today, too. I was like, I might be meeting you at the hospital later. I also thought about it. I was like, well, it would have been a cool, you know, it would have been on location. Yeah, we could have done a Facebook live. That would have made two of us in the hospital in one month.

Yeah. That's true lucky us lucky look at us go god it's like i can't even have the spotlight for one freaking minute no you're gonna be like my turn take it away i one-up you um do you want to tell people why you were oh yeah because otherwise they're gonna think you had a uti and like when you went camping or something yeah like who would do that not me or they're gonna be like you had a migraine get over it yeah you said i had a migraine so i'm in the hospital i might go to the emergency room it's so dramatic i had to lay in a dark for an hour i couldn't look at anyone it was horrible no let's just say my immune system it does not like me and i have crohn's disease slash ulcerative colitis it's unclear which pretty sure it's crohn's

disease point being i haven't been in a flare in six years oh and uh i recently lost my health insurance so i'm trying to figure it out yeah i get the rummy my infusions authorized that i get every eight weeks and i'm on week 11 without it for the first time ever and I'm getting very ill but anyway point being I'm not feeling great but I'm trying my best and that's all that we can do white knuckle in it just like Em did my predecessor on your holding on to the oh shit bar as you careen down the canyon you know in a metaphorical sense yes i did that in the literal sense you know neither are good you win this time but we'll talk tomorrow um okay so caleb in the secret facebook group which by the way guys go join it i posted about it in the public in like the on our page not so much a secret now no it's more like a closed group but it's really fun because everyone can just talk about like whatever the hell they want um so apparently i accidentally said last episode that wales is in england well wales is in the

united kingdom is what i meant not in england and i apologized to everyone who was offended that's all oh were people offended well they were like wales is not in england and i was like i know oh okay i didn't want them to think I was an asshat. In that regard. You're right. So, Caleb, who pointed this fun fact out to me, also asked me to pronounce this word. It's a town. How long is it? I enlarged the font so that you can see it.

I was like, no. And then they were like, well, actually, why don't you just not tell em about this post because she probably won't see it valid and ask em to pronounce it on air oh so that got that turned very fast but i'll do it too okay because i didn't okay but you look at let me do a fresh a fresh look of it all right here i'm gonna turn it around oh my god it's three rows long it's three rows of letters long is there like a dialect or an accent to this i see a lot of double l's and i don't know what to do with any of them it's just welsh i guess i wonder what the nickname to this place is there is one actually okay i but i don't know it's like half it's like half of this i'm gonna do it phonetically because i there's no

way else sure every time i do an l by by the way, there's two L's. Let's get that straight now. Okay. Okay. Lanfair. Lanfair Pwilgwyn-gol-gogur-yitch-wyrn. I'm not even halfway there. No, keep going.

Sounds like I'm speaking in reverse. Sounds like you're having an actual stroke. it sounds like you after the whole box land fair pwilgwyn gil gogory weirndraalbwil land cilio gogogotch yay um but yes calebaleb where is caleb from caleb is from uh well so and even caleb said it's difficult to pronounce so i was like okay okay so i'm gonna try it i have no idea what i'm doing okay i'm gonna make up sounds because you did the phonetic way so i'm just gonna make up oh just yeah throw a j in there throw a i was gonna start with a j sound okay jean-phil guen gloger which blents a logo lock actually that sounded like a word than anything i did oh no echo's talking oh maybe you cracked her oh that was the nuclear code i broke her okay actually all right i actually

know that there is a like a pronunciation online so I'm going to insert it right here to prove how very wrong we were. Okay, here it is. Let's just assume we were very wrong because we can't hear it right now. We actually haven't heard the sound at all. Me editing it is laughing at us. Oh, yeah. And or maybe deleting all of this. Probably.

Anyway, so if you guys want to join the secret... Wait, what's the nickname? It's half of that word, so I don't... Oh't so only one and a half rows right yes jesus in like size 12 and whales need to not do that they need to relax and then they were like christine do you actually know where whales is and i was like yes it is the home of dylan thomas and they're like you're avoiding the question i was like damn it um anyway so if you guys want to join the secret facebook group we have a lot of fun um my friend alissa started a thread uh about she's like hey i know all about christine what do you guys want to know and i was like no no and i didn't see it for a long time so she brought up ask yeah and she brought up my pilgrim shoes which are these shoes that i wore

and then my mom got involved and was like, oh, I have some photos. And I'm like, no, no, no. I already don't like Alyssa because all of my friends listen to this. And I already know there's going to be like five threads. Oh, yeah. I know. Let's get into it. That's why I'm like, this is a bad example.

And my mom's like, oh, that's fun. And I'm like, this is what this is what like famous people have to talk to their friends about. I'm like, look, you can't tell anyone you know me. Sign this Na right now exactly our friendship is now contractually absolutely you can go look it up guys i wore pilgrim shoes i'll admit to it they had buckles okay next uh we redid our patreon page today too we have a 25 level we're gonna start doing facebook live events for everyone who is a patreon supporter um and we're also going to do monthly videos uh

as part of like for ten dollar and up donators yes um so that's a really exciting addition we're going to do like mini stories um on video and if you're a 25 dollar donator you get to request the stories that we cover instead of us just picking right um so if there's something you really want us to cover it's going to be like listeners episodes where we're going to do a handful of stories. If you've got anything really juicy that you want to hear, we will do sort of an abridged full info version. Yeah, on video. Not full info since it's abridged. That was an oxymoron.

That was an oxymoron. I'm not well. It's late. Anyway, we also have all our merches finally up. I ordered all of it yesterday, so it's all coming within the next week. So go order it now before it all runs out. We assume that it's just going to hot off the price. You're supposed to go with me on that one.

Oh, right. Yeah, no, they're selling like flapjacks, guys. Someone ordered six koozies yesterday. I was like, hell yeah. And they're coming soon, so I'm going to ship them all out. And honestly,. Someone ordered six koozies yesterday. I was like, hell yeah. And they're coming soon, so I'm going to ship them all out. And honestly, it might be a while until we reorder. So seriously, go buy them.

Just saying. Okay. We got wine glasses. We got koozies. We got shirts. Yeah, I do have to go shopping for our stuff. I'm excited. Anyway, that's all I have to say.

I'm sorry. Go ahead with your story. I can't wait. That sounded really sarcastic please indulge me please do your best to entertain me by the way already I'm excited for you to have to edit this later because this is a rip-roaring story oh there's a lot of info so I don't know how you plan on breaking this down. Oh, okay. Thanks. I don't either. So I don't know. It'll give you something to do in the hospital tomorrow.

Oh, no. Actually, I have edited in the hospital before. I know you have. There are a lot of times you'll send me Snapchats of you editing and I'm like, I can see the wristband. I can see you in a gown. You're like, there's an IV. How are you?

Like, are you happy? It's a good distraction. Okay. So a lot of people have requested this through Twitter and just about everywhere else. So I'm just going to humor you guys. Just going to do it. Once again, this is all about you. Oh, wait.

Real quick. Somebody left us an itunes review at first i was mad and then i just thought it was funny oh the the one you told me about yeah because remember how in the last episode we were like god or in the listener episode we're like god everything's about you guys and we were fucking obviously joking but i guess somebody was like offended and they wrote uh you're not that great just because you have a really good podcast so I was like oh I know that trust me we know our our egos are below rock bottom if you can find them our bank accounts our egos everything is telling me don't worry you don't need to tell me on iTunes but but thank you thank you for thank you for your honesty yeah sure is the way my grandmother would

say thank you for being yourself also they said it's a great podcast so it's like well okay that's all i care about exactly sorry if we offended you because we're amazing honestly so it's like this thing where she actually wrote the sunshine the sun doesn't shine out of your butthole and i was like but it does i was like wait but it does it does right yeah okay good just checking she had it wrong okay i was really confused for a minute i was like oh my god my world is collapsing around me anyway the haunted house i'm gonna talk about so let's go it's called uh the myrtles plantation oh yeah why do i i've heard of it i don't know what it is really well it's it's it's one of the big ones in america okay

it's in saint francisville louisiana oh okay so up to 12 ghosts have been documented there and there's a rumored 10 or more murders oh my god in 1796 the house was built by general david bradford uh who was involved in the whiskey rebellion and george washington i don't want to hear anything about you and whiskey right okay were you gonna say it sounds real fun and you would have been involved oh yeah well uh george washington personally was on a head hunt for david bradford for being involved so i don't know if that's like what you're into but you would have been involved in that way as well no a head head hunted by the president yeah i mean you'd feel special maybe so uh i also true to form did not write good notes so if you hear me stutter it's my own handwriting and my

own shorthand where i was like i'll remember what it means so apparently david bradford from now on is gonna go by db that's what I call my ex-boyfriend. Why? Because my stepmom was like, you know what he is? He's a DB. And I was like, a douchebag? And she goes, a dumb boy. A dirtbag.

A dirtbag. She goes, don't say that word. So now we just call him DB. So David Bradford, since he was being hunted by the president and other people, it's not like the president just went and start riding around on a horse just being david david hello marco so because he was a wanted man he fled from pennsylvania where his family was he went off on his own and he ended up in near saint francisville louisiana okay he ended up you know with his

pockets of cash at that time sure bought 600 acres and built an eight house mansion as you do and i also don't know how you would get away with that if the president's looking for you and his like they will never see this eight house mansion they'll never find me he'll never stumble upon it it's like the perfect disguise it's like if i act normal why would they even look that's true if i'm right in the open and you just have enough with you on the way to louisiana as you flee to cover 600 acres i can't cover a six-piece nugget wait what wait cover it what do you mean money to cover it? What do you mean? Money to cover it. Oh, I thought you meant like the building materials. Imaginative nuggets. I was like, what are you talking about?

That's my kind of life. I'm so sorry. That's where I am. Okay. Let's get... Okay, also it was not called the Myrtles Plantation. It was originally called Laurel Grove. Okay. He ended up being pardoned in 1799 by John Adams.

Oh, nice. And so then he was able to go back to pennsylvania and get his family go it's like he they're making it sound like he's snowed in and went to russia like like he couldn't go back into pennsylvania oh my god all right i don't get it were the state lines harder to get through? Was customs a bitch? Can you imagine if Obama's riding around looking for Snowden? And he's just in Louisiana. Come back to Pennsylvania. No!

Okay. Anyway. So once he got his family living there with him, he also was a lawyer at one point. And so he wanted to help other future lawyers. So he would house law students there for free. Okay. So one of the law students that stayed in their house with them, his name was Clark Woodruff. And Clark Woodruff ended up falling in love with his daughter.

Oh, no. No, no, no. Okay. It's not true crime. It's paranormal. Oh, right. I forgot. He's not going to kill her.

Okay. So Clark and Sarah got married, and then they lived in the house next. Okay. With their three kids named James and then Cornelia, our favorite. I picked her as nominee. As Puella nominee Cornelia. As Puella. And then their other daughter named Mary Octavia.

Oh, right. Right out of my own baby book. She's the black sheep, you can tell. right out of my own baby book she's the black sheep you can tell so um his wife and two kids all died in the house from yellow fever within two years wait seriously yeah of each other not so they all uh him and sarah lived in the house um after they got married had three kids and then two of them died of yellow fever while the wife also died of yellow fever within two years of that that's so sad so um before that happened though and she was alive and they were married and she was apparently

pregnant at the time too no he was sleeping with one of the servants that bitch i'm talking about him was a teenager yeah oh no for a second i thought you said that bitch about her and i was like look she didn't want it oh hell no not first upon her fucking her fault i know it so i guess um dickwad she didn't want to but she was afraid that if she didn't then he would make her work in the fields stop it and that's like the apparently the worst of the activities you can make them do um and so she obliged and let him do that with her um and when he started getting bored of her he she was afraid that he was going to put her out in the fields and like find another girl and so being afraid of getting removed from the house she was eavesdropping on one of his

conversations and he caught her and he cut her ear off what the fuck and so for the rest of her life she wore a green turban to cover up the scar her baby her life however did not last much longer oh no because one of the daughters had a birthday and it was her job to make cake. She put poison in the cake. So they thought either she was going to kill him with the cake or she was going to use a light amount of poison so that everyone got sick and she would heal them so that they would be grateful and not put her in the fields. Oh, fuck. One of the two.

Which one do you think it was? I guess there's no way to know. It sounds more crazy girlfriend to do the second one it does very manipulative so not that it's her fault after it's her fault her ear was cut off so the slaves knowing what she had done of possibly poisoning them to kill them or just poison them to hurt them right they were afraid that like the slaves knew what she had done they were afraid that if the family found out that they knew that they would get in trouble, too. Oh, shit. So they all went against her.

No. Pulled her out of her bed while she was sleeping one night and then dragged her out to the yard and hanged her for the family without them even asking. Em, are you fucking kidding? To show their loyalty to the family. What was her name? Do we know? Chloe. loyalty to the family what was her name do we know chloe then they cut her down from the tree weighted her down with rocks and then threw her in the river on the property jesus

so that happened to chloe oh god also the room where she poisoned the girls was in what is today considered the game room okay back then i think of like not an arcade it was like billard sure or it was even i don't know what it is today you play like um par cheesy or some shit oh right yeah the boring stuff yeah you know what is that called um par cheesy no but the one with the chinese checkers no um the one that i always think is backgammon but that's outside that's outside though isn't it no backgammon is with what's the one what's the one that i always think is backgammon but that's outside that's outside though isn't it no backgammon is with what's the one what's the one that's not tennis with the thing oh badminton badminton we used to play badminton all the time at my dad's country club yeah yeah i heard it i

heard it i was like rewind rewind i was like that just sounds like a country thing to do did you go like skiing in the swiss alps afterwards or i mean like not right afterwards we had to wait for the jet come on um it wasn't the right season for skiing i'm kidding i'm kidding guys god everyone's gonna this girl who who wrote the itunes interview is like told you okay so anyway that happened with the woodruff family okay then after so okay this is where i have to be a skeptic so chloe is known as one of the most haunted ghosts most active ghosts at myrtle's plantation okay but the story doesn't add up at all because like and trust me i believe chloe's there i'm not saying she's not there we believe believe you, Chloe. I'm just saying that based on findings, like anyone that's ever been curious, everyone has tried to find a public record of any servant named Chloe.

And also, if you don't remember from earlier in my story, Woodruff's wife and two of his kids died from yellow fever. Right. So how would they have been poisoned by cake? Well, maybe, was it before they died? Or no? I mean, like, how old were they? Okay, so the story goes that Chloe poisoned them, and then they died.

Oh, that she killed them. So she ended up killing them. I didn't know they died from the cake. Yeah, that was my bad. No, okay, I get it. So the theory, like, the story goes that Chloe killed them, but how could they be killed when there's public record that all three of them died of yellow fever?

So do people, like, realize the contradiction? Because that's a big... I mean, it's a very obvious contradiction. So I don't know what people are thinking. She could have just been a girl on the property. I don't really know. Stories also get, like, blown out of proportion over time. Especially because there are so many families that have owned this house sure so of course there's gonna be like playing telephone sure exactly

exactly but just because i gotta play both sides and do devil's advocate it's good to know i mean it could be anything else oh and also because in the story chloe killed the mom and the two daughters oh and after and in the story that's on record is that the wife a daughter and a son all died of yellow fever and woodruff and his only daughter mary octavia both lived until he's 1834 which was a long time okay okay so like if she was walking around for several decades after how would she have died from a poison i got you so but anyway i know facts are facts but also chloe did it but also you know what it happened someone hurt chloe that's all yeah yes yes if she's there she probably is a good reason so woodruff and his only daughter mary octavia the black sheep the black sheep the one and only ended up selling the house to a guy named Ruffin Gray Sterling, who sounds like he belongs

on My Dad Wrote a Porn Out. Oh, boy. Him and his wife remodeled the home, so from it going from an eight-bedroom mansion, they doubled its size, and they renamed it from Laurel Grove to The Myrtles. Okay. Apparently, his name is rgs rough and gray sterling i will only accept you saying his full name from now on rough and gray sterling had nine kids five died on the property oh god and then another one also died on the property later okay

in his adult life wait so five of the they were children when they died nine nine children four of them raised to adulthood and then one of those also died okay okay and here are five of the, they were children when they died. Nine children, four of them raised to adulthood, and then one of those also died. Okay, okay. And here are some of the examples of how they remodeled this house. They built an entire southern section, which Lord knows what that is. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't want to go there. It sounds southern enough to say you have a southern section.

And then the original walls, which I spelled as the OG walls. Oh, sure. Just add some flair. The original walls were removed to be switched around. What? Like they just flipped them? Just flipped the walls. This isn't The Sims.

I don't understand. To then build both gentlemen and female parlors. Oh, for God's sakes. And then also the game room which is where the cake incident may or may not have happened and the badminton and all that right yeah and then uh rough and gray sterling he then died 20 years later of my favorite consumption oh no uh his son also ended up dying that same year by being stabbed over a gambling debt i'm sorry what that's awful so the place got left to his wife mary who people

in town respected as much as a man which is something that has claps for that thank you mary thank you mary for your contribution to society listen i do not want to know what these people's southern quarters were like if if that's their well they had a gentleman's parlor because god forbid you were in the lady parlor oh sure no and um you know what here is an actual quote of what they thought of mary good because she was held in the highest of regards they said we respect mary to the highest esteem she has the business acumen of a man all you need all you need if only i wish i had that i dream of the day i i sometimes men need more business acumen of men you know what i mean right so like if a man doesn't even have the business acumen of

a man like what if you ever get there what if you're what if you're a man your boss is a woman oh god do you want her business acumen god forbid and that doesn't happen no come on let's be realistic here i know this is like a supernatural it's a story that's a little far fetched so uh mary who was just might as well be ceo of the country at this point yes um she decided that she was going to leave the business the business the house basically a business sounds like it uh she's gonna leave the house to her daughter and her son-in-law named william winter so william winter is the only verifiable on record death that happened in this house so even though there are up to 12 deaths in this house oh my god only one of them has actually

been proven and even that story is skewed okay in 1871 william winter who was living there uh he was being a good man and he was teaching Sunday school in the Gentleman Parlor. Oh, sure. As you do. As you do. And he heard someone come out by his house and say they had business to conduct with him. Uh-oh, that's never good. Yeah, I got business with you.

I got a bone to pick. So then he steps outside. Let's take it outside. I got business with you. I got a bone to pick. So then he steps outside. Let's take it outside. And this was cowardly because the guy, so William Winter comes outside to see who's talking to him because he didn't have windows apparently in this gentleman's parlor. Well, they flipped the walls. Maybe that's the issue with it. And he just got shot immediately.

What? Yeah. He just got shot immediately oh what yeah he just got shot and you just so the story is he got shot and then he like stumbled up the stairs oh no back into sunday school oh sorry back to be with god i thought like back to the children like i'm here i'm sorry i thought i'm sorry that sounds like a judd apatow movie it does children screaming at a bloody man i've read too much murder today i think i think sorry that sounds like a judd apatow movie it does children screaming at a bloody man i've read too much murder today i think i think this was an adult sunday school

oh i don't know if i don't it's not oh listen it could just be normal church i'm sorry um but so anyway he like stumbled there's like stairs that led to the house okay so the story is that he stumbled up the stairs and fell into his wife's arms and died in her arms but the story that is on record and was in all the newspaper clippings at the time is that he fell flat on his ass and just died i mean that blank is definitely what happened so but a lot of people say oh no he died on the stairs and that's not actually probably what happened that seems a little notebookish if i got shot i would be on my ass for sure there's no let me use my legs now oh hell no i'm here you come to me i'm like i don't like climbing stairs when i'm not shot so i'm not gonna do it now

okay so the house was then sold to harrison williams and his wife fanny people named fanny i just can't if you know anyone named fanny please tell me because i can't believe that's even a name right what's it short for but oh for a shorter word i'm not even asking about what does it mean i don't know i don't know what is fanny short for but i don't know oh no so harrison williams and his wife but they had seven

i'm so sorry i hope we meet someone named fanny one day i don't i take back what i said about if you know anyone named fanny because i can't deal with it it's everyone's gonna start tagging their friends no no no no so harrison williams and his wife had seven kids over time and their oldest one harry while they lived on the property was trying to gather cattle during the storm oh sure and he somehow felt i don't know why you're by the river when you're i don't know what he was doing because there were this is one sentence that came out of four different stories.

So I'm probably just telling you a whole new story. I'm so excited for it. No, it's actually not. It's very anticlimactic. But so he was gathering cattle. There happened to be a storm. There happened to be a river. He happened to fall in it.

And he drowned on the property. Oh, that's not anticlimactic. That's horrible. Oh, okay. I've read too much of this. So then they ended up not being able to be on the property because they felt so bad that their son died on the property yeah so they're like as his parents we just have to give it away but we want to keep in the family so they gave it

to one of their other sons named surrogate what's surrogate short for but that's like so not funny i don't know why i find it so funny um like surrogate like s-u-r-g-e-t i bet he lives in that weird fucking place from wales so surrogate um was saved at the house quote with his wife and spinster sister jesus christ who wrote this who and all the newspaper clippings doesn't have a name is only known as the spinster sister how fucking sad is that it feels a lot like where we probably were about six months ago yeah i was like well i guess i found another generation then they uh sold the house in the 1950s to wealthy chicken farmers and naturally and then the story ends there because it of course is a bed and breakfast now always they always are always always so with all that information let me tell you about the ghosts

please do i am so ready as am i i told you way too many things about way too many people no they're but i did not sign on for quite a few interesting characters involved so far so here's what happened some of the things that people have seen in this house as visitors to this bed and breakfast slash on ghost tours have been handprints on the mirrors oh that's fucking creepy already but like like they will clean the mirrors and then come back and there will be like handprints all over it of people who are not in the room with them didn't that happen at stanley hotel with like, the breath on the air? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ooh, creepy. Footsteps on the stairs, especially the stairs that apparently William Winter was shot on, even though he actually, by record, was not. Sure. But footsteps on stairs in general. That's always, I feel like that's a common one, though, in haunted places. Weird smells. Ooh.

I'd say is also common. Yeah. Vanishing objects, which you and i have both experienced oh man and people have messaged us like oh i get it oh i never even said it on the show but i i had a vanishing object a couple weeks with you what was it again remember i was supposed to meet you and renee oh my god that straight up happened i forgot that straight up happened okay you have to say it now i was supposed to meet okay i have this thing where i'm always fucking late and yeah we know well

christine really knows at this point she like just tells me the wrong time on purpose so i'll actually get there on time i literally do that yep and i was supposed to meet them for dinner and of course i was late and i was about i swear to god it was gonna be on time i was like i get a text that says on my way i really was and i was walking out the door and i was like oh i don't have my keys so i went back in to grab my keys and i could not find them anywhere and i had intentionally gotten ready ahead of time sat on the couch and waited for the right time to leave so that i i could get in this car i had everything ready and this was right after we talked about by the way if if you're new listeners about like how things in our lives have kind of vanished and then

reappeared. Yeah. And then, um, the whole time I'm cleaning, I'm like, okay, this is really funny guys. Like I'm like shouting at the earth. I'm like, please bring it back. And I'm at the ramen place like, God damn it. And so anyway, I was of course late as usual, incredibly late as usual and hung out with Christine. And I ended up coming home in my Uber, which was the creepiest Uber ride of my life, by the way. The guy was super weird. Oh, God. And I got back to my room and I tore my room apart.

I went through all my laundry. I went through like jackets that were my hangers. I went like I looked under the bed, through my mattress, everything. And I get back to my room and RJ came home just to unlock the door and then he left yeah so he didn't go in the house no one else was home I went home went to my room and they were literally sitting perfectly on my pillow no no no no no no and I was like what the fuck is going on I went through this room like 10 hundred times trying to fuck and it's always right in the center like they, they do it, it's like, just so you'll know. It's like, we had them all along.

That's what happened to my fucking retainer in the middle of a pillow. It just sat right on your pillow, and that's what happened with my keys. And that's really creepy, especially because you were the only one home, and... No. I had the same thought you did about your retainer, where I was like, someone broke in, and someone's fucking with me. Yeah, someone was, like, watching. Yeah. That's what I thought, too.

So, anyway. Vanishing objects. Yeah. Someone was like watching. Yeah. That's what I thought too. So anyway, vanishing objects. Sure. Also random gunfire. The sound. Not actually like fire. Oh, I was like, people just like get shot? No, you'll just hear random gunfire on the property. That's scary.

There'll be random screams and empty rooms and also in the yard where Chloe supposedly was hanged. also in the yard where chloe supposedly was hanged um you will also see three girls a woman and two girls um in the reflection of the mirror and they're either staring at you or all huddled crying together okay that's really upsetting the staring i think is creepier little girls will also float in the game room you'll just see you'll just see a little girl people have seen a little girl just floating there oh so like it's not like you bring your daughter and she floats what a trip let's go it's like cool i'll bring my sister i'll bring myself i thought you meant like little girls just like just toss them in there they'll set off game room it's fine um and also little uh there's

a little girl that will like cover her eyes like she's peering out a window that isn't there anymore probably because the walls got moved around oh yeah and then um kids running around on the veranda oh sure yes um kids running through the halls in empty rooms you can hear them laughing and chasing each other and then one visitor decided to follow a kid that she saw running upstairs and when she got up there she heard a giggle again and then when she went to go look in her room she heard a voice behind her say we're hiding nope that why why follow up nope so another cool story is that uh three union soldiers supposedly broke in and looted the place and when they got in there they were killed in the parlor room i don't know if it was the gentleman or the

lady one but one of them holy shit their their blood stains apparently still appear on the floor to some people and they can't be cleaned off so one maid started work i guess it's you know in the movie it like it's not like the kids will see blood but the parents can't see it i definitely you do you really think that's right you haven't sorry no but like so people will see like they'll swear by that they're standing in puddles of blood and people will be like what are you talking about oh that's in that movie? Right, you haven't, sorry. But, like, so, people will see, like, they'll swear by that they're standing in puddles of blood. Oh, that's so gross. And people will be like, what are you talking about? Oh, that's so gross. And one maid started working there, and she kept scrubbing and scrubbing to get the blood off, and nobody else could see it.

And they're like, why are you scrubbing the same spot? Oh, gross. Also, Fanny, her... My favorite. Her brother lived on the property and was killed during a robbery so he's one of the other murders that's so sad why is everyone like robbing this place but you can still hear uh you can still hear him every now and then you'll hear whispers of someone saying no stop or please don't oh for god's sakes really fucked up that's so depressing then

let's talk about chloe let's talk about it so chloe um since her death she's been spotted a whole bunch of places in a whole bunch of ways but her most famous run-in is she has been seen in photographs and there's a famous photograph where she is between two parts of the mansion one being the general store and the other the butler's pantry can you imagine being a butler in a mansion getting your own pantry i mean i think it just means that's where they like get the stuff to like serve you like a normal pantry i feel like a like that's like a whole butchery okay it's not a butcher pantry it's a butler's pantry right that one's on the other side of the hall there's no such thing as a butcher pantry you

just read it wrong you're right it does say butler's pantry yeah so okay it's not just like full of like what happens next christine meat so what happens what happens to me what's it look like it's just like a big pantry it's like a normal pantry and it's where they go to like get the serving trays and shit to like feed the family okay uh so there's a picture of chloe hanging out between that and the general store okay they. God, why did these places all have general stores? Look, I didn't question the butcher pantry because I heard general store. I was like, oh, yeah, sure. Butcher pantry makes sense, too.

Why not? So the picture was so clear of this little girl, but you could still see through her. You could see the architecture of the house behind this person. While also seeing her figure perfectly. Do you know where the, like, who took the photo? No. Okay. Is it online?

Yes, it's online. Okay, we'll post the photo. Well, also, it's because, so this is such a popular picture that they actually made it their default postcard. Oh, shit. Are you serious and uh they had like they sent it out to the society of cyclical research in england what's that it's like the most prestigious paranormal um paranormal research facility oh shit they take on like the serious cases and like what's it called the uh society of Cyclical Research. Holy shit.

I would love to go one day. I want to go there. I swear to God, if I ever go to England, that's my first stop. Let's go to Wales and we'll visit when we're there. Right, exactly. Let's go to Loughrachoframpic. It'll be there. It's short for butt. It's funny.

God help us. Okay, go on. So basically, they looked at the picture and they wanted to see like oh did someone like mess with the picture yeah yeah so they looked at megapixel capability file size compression system shutter speeds aperture settings iso speed settings focal length of the lens and none of it had been tampered with oh my god and then they also brought in because every person that works there also has a specific skill so they were able to i guess there's a type of person that they can see someone it's like almost like forensic photography where they can like measure out the dimensions of a head and a body

and everything and it was the exact dimensions of a girl of the age that they say chloe was and like they like it's not like it's a mist and they're like well that could be a head it's like they measured out the proportionally it would be that's a human oh wait here it is um so one of the things they did was after enlarging the photo the postcard picture and doing a shadow density procedure they discovered that all the physical measurements of the apparition were of human dimensions and proportions including the circumference of the head the length of the shoulders to the elbow and to the length of the elbow to the wrist they were all indicative of human holy shit one of the other ways that she has haunted besides showing up in pictures is she is still known to be seen with her green

turban she will uh stare at you while you're sleeping maybe oh god um she'll even be holding a candle and you can see the glow hitting her so you know that like she's a real person but you can still see the room behind her i just got so it's like is she solid or is she translucent oh god um she'll wander the grounds and usually she's followed by the cries of several children. Em, what the fuck? So, another one which is unexplained to me, except for the fact that wouldn't you know it, this place was built on an ancient Indian burial ground.

Like, surprise! All of America. Okay, so one of the ghosts that has also been seen is a well-endowed naked Indian girl. Oh, I thought it was going to be a dude. Indian is a fucked up thing to say too let's go with native american i think it's american indian she must be very well endowed for that to be the thing that would be like the descriptor it's like oh the spinster sister and the well-endowed um also the people who live there now will tell you that within the first month of living there you have so many experiences that even if the stories don't add up about like how historically it happened

there's absolutely things there holy crap um there's also a grand piano on the floor on the floor that will play by itself but it will only repeat the same chord over and over again no that's a nightmare it's like an annoying roommate learning how to play an instrument oh my god um sometimes it continues throughout the night and when someone comes into the room to figure out where the sound's coming from the music will stop only to start again when you're about to leave it's like a little kid being like get out of here um and then the last thing i will say is um apparently people will feel like their legs are getting tugged on and, uh, by a ghost who actually had his leg amputated in the room that people feel their leg getting tugged

on. Well, shut the fuck up. Yeah. What the fuck? Um, one of the things that Chloe has been known to do, I don't know why they know it's Chloe, but they say that she will tuck you in at night. And so a lot of people will intentionally sleep with their blankets by their feet and then they'll wake up and it'll be like snug under there, like from over their shoulders, under

their chin, like they're tucked in, like totally tucked in. Like you couldn't just get in that way. So people stay there. If I were ever in Louisiana, I would want to go. Yeah, that's true. So I don't know if I'd sleep there for like a month or whatever the fuck. Well, that was the owner of the bed and breakfast. I was like, why are people staying there for so long?

No, no, no. All right. Tell me all about murder. Fine. A flock of crows. No, I don't like crows and I don't like talking about them. But I love murder and I will talk about it. Don't love it, but I'll talk about it.

Let's get settled in, guys. about it let's get settled in guys okay so I was going to do Sylvia Likens again and then I just got keep backing out I was really sick today and I was like I can't do this oh that's fair okay it was too much so I I saved all my notes and bookmarks for a future date so it's coming up guys we'll get there eventually but i also got a request from um jess on twitter uh at skater underscore girl 11 oh is that your friend yeah i went to high school with her i went to first grade through high school with her oh okay i thought i thought maybe you knew her okay i i know her hi jess hi jess Jess. So Jess suggested we do an episode on celebrity stalkers. And so I looked into it and I went into quite a black hole.

I think part of the reason for my mood today is like stalker stuff really hits home. I also want to add real quick. I was going to do a kind of like mini thing at the beginning where I was going to like spit out some fun facts about celebrity stalkers because there have been some crazy ones. Like one showed up in Selena Gomez's guest house at Halle Berry's kitchen door. No one showed up in Sandra Bullock's house. Like crazy shit has happened. And I was going to go through all them. But there are like I think Gwyneth or Nicole Kidman.

I think Gwyneth Paltrow had, like, crazy ones. Oh, my God. And I wanted to do them. But there's so much. And so I think instead I'm going to make, like, make it part of a bone, like a Patreon episode or something. Oh, that'd be cool. That'd be cool. Because it's not enough to do, like, a whole topic.

But it's, I want to talk about them. but it's i want to talk about them so instead of doing like multiple celebrities i'm just going to focus on the one that turned the tides on um stalking laws and things like that it's a really big one so this is about the murder of rebecca schaefer so this uh took place about 28 years ago rebecca schaefer was a 21 year old actress from eugene oregon whose career was on the rise she began modeling in high school and her parents let her move to new york to pursue her career she landed a role on one life to live so it was like a big starting point but um she wanted to model but she was only five foot seven and even though she was beautiful she wasn't tall enough to get really good modeling gigs so she decided to focus on acting um she got some small roles like in a woody allen film

um and then when she landed the cover of 17 magazine is when she kind of took off and some la producers uh you know they she caught their eye and they were casting for a sitcom called my sister sam do you know that show no i guess it was like really big for a minute and then it got canceled but it was like very popular for a year i don't know so she moved to la um she was really young probably like 1920 the show gets canceled but she was still kind of like a brand new on the scene actress um beautiful young like she had you know a full career starting for her um and around this time she started getting fan mail from a man named robert john bardo okay so now i'm going to tell

you about uh robert john bardo okay if we ever get an email from him we're ignoring that shit but um i really try to respond to every email we get not that one not just not that one that's just my ticket to canada is what that is people are gonna start like naming their gmails like robert oh my god don't do it actually that's not funny don't do that okay so anyway robert john bardo he was the youngest of seven children um he lived kind of like a let's just say not surprisingly he had a rough childhood uh they moved a ton of times but he ended up in tucson arizona he was actually abused by one of his siblings and when he threatened to commit suicide he was placed in foster care and diagnosed with manic depression. He dropped out of high school in ninth grade and started a job as a janitor at Jack in the Box.

One of his teachers later called him a ticking time bomb. Oh, shit. So not good start. In his teenage years, he became obsessed with famous people. So he started this sort of infatuation with like celebrities in the mid 80s uh he was in his late teens i think um he started stalking i don't know you probably don't know this person i didn't know her at least um her name is samantha smith she was a child peace activist no okay so this okay let me tell you i had no idea this was

a thing but someone out there thinks we're idiots but no i don't know a lot of people do i mean that's no surprise but uh yeah so apparently during the cold war era there was this girl named samantha smith who was like a child actor and she was also a peace activist and i guess she wrote a letter to the general secretary of the soviet union yuri andropov and received a personal invitation to go to the soviet union so she did um and then she wrote a book about it and became a goodwill ambassador and so she was america's youngest ambassador basically she was like an activist for peace so this guy bardo became infatuated with her keep in mind by the way she's 11 years old okay oh no yeah so

he's infatuated with her he's probably like 18 17 18 at this point he's 17 18 yeah oh my goodness okay um to the point that he traveled to her hometown in maine to find her um because he wanted to be close to her quote unquote apparently he actually got within several blocks of her home, but he asked for directions and was picked up by police because they were like, why are you like traipsing around this girl's neighborhood? Because she was really famous at this point. So at least the cops looked out for her. Yeah, for sure.

So unfortunately, this is sad, Samantha Smith and her father were killed in a plane crash two years later when she was 13. Oh, shit. I know. Oh, my God. So instead, he redirected his attention to Rebecca Schaefer. Oh, my God. I know.

So he was infatuated with her. She died in a plane crash. All of a sudden, he was obsessed with actress Rebecca Schaefer. Lord have mercy. So he began writing letters to her regularly, and one of which she actually was answered by an employee of her fan service. So, like, I'm thinking you and I should probably work on getting one of those. Right. I actually used to do the fan service for...

I was the fan service. I forgot. You can be our fan service. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have experience. Yeah. I forgot. You can be our fan service. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have experience. Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, just like fun fact for you. If you ever do send someone fan mail, they don't fucking read it. Oh, hell no. People like me read it. I'm just thinking like, but so it's sort of inception if someone writes to you because you're the fan mail person. Oh. So who's your fan mail person?

So actually it would end up being like exactly what people would want to be the direct exactly it'd be direct i have to be my own intern first point of contact right all right in 1987 uh he traveled from arizona to los angeles to meet her because like you know why not because he assumed that a pre-signed picture means let's rendezvous sure time to be in love. Right. So he shows up on the set of My Sister Sam at the Warner Brothers lot. Oh, no.

And security turns him away. Obviously. Right. He becomes extremely angry. And then he's like, you know what? No, I'm going to return a month later with a knife. Oh, shit. And security is like, dude, no, you cannot come in um so he's like

you know what fuck you guys so he backs off of shaffer and starts a newfound obsession with pop stars debbie gibson and tiffany what because you know so they were their his rebounds yes exactly gross in 1989 though bardo sees the, which I didn't know existed, Scenes from the Class Struggle in Beverly Hills. What? That's the name of the movie. All right. It's kind of like a dark comedy, I guess.

Sounds like it. So in the movie, Rebecca Schaefer is lying in bed with a man. Oh, no. And Bardo is not happy about it oh my gosh so he says that she had lost her innocence and had become quote another hollywood whore does he even know how a movie works well clearly not i mean obviously he does not obviously not so he is like okay my attention's back on her so he goes okay so he goes and hires a private investigator to get her home address after he learned that arthur richard jackson uh the man who stalked and stabbed actress theresa saldana in 1982 oh no had also hired a pi to get her address so he's like oh good that's a great idea so he

hires a pi to get uh her address and the pi he paid him uh uh 250 dollars oh okay so the pi literally just got her address from the dmv and gave it to him and then are you serious yeah and then he went to la with her home address this time. Not like he didn't have to go to the Warner Brothers lot. Oh, shit. Because he paid $250 and somebody was like, okay, here's her address. So anyway, let's get back to Rebecca. Meanwhile, I feel like I'm like. I'll wait.

I'll wait. I feel like I'm pitching some like lame screenplay where I'm like, okay, but hold on. Meanwhile. But wait, it gets weird.'m like okay but hold on on meanwhile wait it gets it gets weird but wait wait this is where it gets good yes it's real good i promise just hang in there just please just focus okay meanwhile rebecca schaefer is prepping for an audition she had that day for the godfather part three of course so this was her like next big break like this was supposed to be a huge role for her obviously um and she is prepping for the audition and she hears a buzz on the apartment

complex door and she had been waiting for someone to come drop off a script so she's like okay so she runs downstairs to open the door and instead of the person dropping off the script it's 19 year old uh robert john bardo standing there oh my god and he introduces himself as a big fan and he says you know what one time you sent me a signed photograph and she's very polite to quote my favorite murder fuck politeness she's very polite and she says oh okay yeah it's nice to meet you blah blah and then she says you know what i she signed something for him and said okay like i'm busy you gotta go so he left um and he leaves and he goes to a local coffee shop to have breakfast um and an hour later he decides to come back because apparently i'll quote

this later because it's just like out of his mind crazy but i guess he said he forgot he had a compact disc that he wanted to give her or something some bullshit like that so he returns to her apartment just say cd grandpa a compact disc i know fun fact guys that's what cd stands for he had a floppy disc that he found on the side oh an fd an fd right a save icon oh so he okay so he says an hour later he returns to her apartment and buzzes again she's still there she comes down um sees him says like listen i'm busy and asks him to leave uh but this time he reaches into a paper bag pulls a gun out oh points it directly at her and shoots her one time in the chest holy shit and she just falls over and he flees the scene oh my god a neighbor calls the paramedics um and when they arrive she's

still breathing but yeah but uh they transported her to cedars-sinai and 30 minutes after she arrived she was pronounced dead um no that's so so wrong the fact that like he came back like he went once and she was very nice to him and then he left and then he came back it's just like she was so kind to you and she did not have to be oh it like hurt anyway he had a copy of okay i'm gonna make you guess guess what novel he had a copy of when he shot her do i get a hint yeah it's a coming of age novel was it fucking catch in the rye yes of course there's no one i hate more than holden caulfield in this fucking world i knew you'd get it so he had a copy of the catcher in the rye with him which he tossed onto the roof of a building as he ran away and he's good throw yeah

i know i'm like a roof of a building it's like oh let me just throw it up to that plane in the sky oh hold on i have a book with me yeah what the fuck let me go see things holden is so brooding and deep well dick he said it was coincidental and that he was not emulating Mark David Chapman, who had also carried a copy of the book with him when he shot John Lennon in 1980. Oh, cry me a river. And this guy had a sort of like infatuation with people who, well, A, celebrities, but B, people who stalked and killed celebrities. Like he admired celebrity stalkers.

Yes. Christine. So this guy, anyway, so he's like's like oh it's just a coincidence that i had this book on me when i shot her to death even though like yeah it's like no it's not no even though one of your heroes was mark david chapman who killed john lennon with a copy of catcher in the rye gross anyway um okay so i watched this documentary episode it wasn't like a full documentary but it was like a true crime episode on uh the true crime no oh no i'm sorry what's it called the crime network on youtube okay um and i found some new information uh so the way so paramedics arrived she passed away at the hospital and then they were like they asked her family and friends like does she have

any enemies and everybody was basically like no she, she's 21. Everyone loves her. She's sweet. She's hardworking. Like she has no enemies. And so their theory was it's a deranged fan. And so they had sort of an idea that it might be him. call that this guy was running through traffic in los angeles and they caught him and it was this guy bardo um and he said you better arrest me now i shot somebody oh so yeah clearly it was him it was never a question of like who killed her it was like let's just bring him in and figure out why basically uh and the prosecutor in the trial was Marsha Clark, who became famous later for being the prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial. Oh, wow. She's got the business acumen of a man. I know. I suddenly respect her so much more now that you equate her to a man.

You know? Right. Yeah. How that works. Good for you, Marsha. Marsha, let's call you Mark. Okay. Might as well.

Might as well. Okay. Okay. okay might as well might as well um okay okay so this is where i want to add um that they actually had a tape recorded of his account of what happened so like oh really it's so fucked up so this is kind of his viewpoint uh he said he had been carrying a loaded 357 magnum pistol in a shopping bag uh because he wanted to complete his mission. Oh, my God. He said Schaefer answered the door and he brought up the postcard she had sent him,

the signed one. And she smiled at him and said, please take care and shook his hand as he left the first time. As he walked away, Bardo said he remembered he had a letter and a compact disc. That's where it came from.

Oh, okay. I thought you were just doing your German thing again. it wasn't me it's from this it's from i have arrived with my compact disc haphazardly oh help okay haphazardly oh so anyway he decided he had to return to shaver's apartment is his like that's how he rationalized it he said quote she was in her bathrobe and i was thinking this is the wrong time she's taking a shower she said you came to my door again it was like i was bothering her again hurry up i don't have much time i thought that was a very callous thing to say to a fan. So he's angry, right? That he shows up a second time and she's like, I'm busy. He's offended that she's offended.

Totally. So then he showed investigators how he pulled the gun out of the bag and aimed it at her and fired. He even mimicked the sound of the bullet as he, God. As he showed them how he shot her. It's like he's proud of it. He just like. Is he proud or is he just neutral? He's just like, oh, and I did this. I think it's more of like a.

Here, this is what happened. You'll see in a minute. I'll see. You'll hear in a minute. OK. And then he said she was just screaming and imitated her cries he said she was going why why i was still fumbling around thinking maybe i should blow my head off and fall on her oh my god so her last words were apparently why why um and then during this is also weird during the trial bardo claimed and

this is something i'd heard before because i read a book that uh the gift of fear which i'm going to mention in a minute but it talked about this case and bardo claimed that the u2 song exit was an influence in the murder and so during the the trial they played the song what and also like i don't want to make his point i'm not totally sure but i guess he started like bobbing his head and mouthing the words and it was oh that's so eerie yeah apparently i like read a thing about how he started like getting into the music yeah swaying to the music and singing the words getting into a mood like a headspace yeah so that was just another creepy detail um anyway so another thing that he said that was kind of startling was that

when he saw he said when he saw on tv that she was dead he said i almost had a heart attack when i learned that she had died or that are you kidding me? That she had been shot. And this was after he had already said, like... So, like, he, like... It was one of those things where he, like, disassociated totally. It's just, like, mental illness. He was like, I almost had a heart attack when I saw that she was dead. And it was like...

And then did he have another one when he realized he did it? You know what? I guess he was wandering through... Wandering down the... Listening to you two. I tend to listen to you two, so maybe. Jesus. Oh my gosh.

So Bardo's attorneys said, yes, he had murdered her, but that he was mentally ill. And a psychiatrist named Park Dietz testified for the defense and said that Bardo had schizophrenia and it was his illness that had led him to commit the murder um bardo was found guilty of first degree murder and he was sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole so there was this whole movement on the defense to be like well he's just sick like it's not as you know he's mentally ill blah blah blah but um a jury still found i think the u2 thing was part of that. A jury still said, no, he's guilty of first degree murder.

So he was sentenced to life in prison. And he was sent to, I didn't write this down, but he was sent to a facility that was aimed toward like mentally ill inmates. So it was like people who had serious issues basically right um and it wasn't like a psychiatric ward but it was and at one point he was stabbed 11 times oh uh on the way to breakfast in the morning oh and um he was airlifted to the hospital and then ended up being fine and was sent back sent back to the same spot yeah oh my god that's real hell so he is still there currently um serving time um how much time life okay good but following her murder following rebecca's murder um there is i hate to say a silver lining but there is you know good that came out of it

thankfully um so at the time that rebecca was murdered there were no laws no stalker laws on the books it was 1989 and nowhere in the united states was there one law about stalking um in the books and within five years of her murder every single state had laws enacted oh well that's good stalker regulations yeah um and the california laws regarding the release of personal information through the dmv were drastically altered for yeah obvious fucking reasons so they uh enacted this thing called the driver's privacy protection act in 1994 and that prevented the dmv from releasing private addresses which like why did we have to tell you that right uh i can't imagine calling the dmv and being like where does m schultz live yeah right i want to go to her house like what the fuck you've also

never been to my house i haven't been to your house maybe i should call the dmv uh okay so anyway so within five years every single state had at least some sort of law against stalking so that's where that story ends right so as much as every you know it was good every state enacted these laws um obviously they're still not necessarily as effective as they maybe should be um restraining orders are not as effective as people think they are no they are not nope and no they are not often they anger the people that uh they're yeah it's just like a tease at that point. It's just sometimes infuriates people. And if you have not read The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker, have you read it? No.

It's so good. It's a really, really interesting book about how your intuition and your, like, especially as if you're a woman, you're kind of trained to be polite and suppress feelings of, like, discomfort around strangers. Right. suppress feelings of like like discomfort around strangers right and you know if a man opens the elevator and your thought is i don't want to get in the elevator you're like i don't want to be rude you know right right and that's an actual example from the book where a woman's like you know what i'm not going to be rude and gets in the elevator and is attacked and she survived but it's it's like a story of i knew getting in the elevator you know it was something was off well i so in college I one of the things I studied was um communication but I say human communication so I all of my

background and my education is all like behavioral yeah and I took a whole class on like basic consent and basic etiquette and like the instinct versus your upbringing and like it's just it's crazy how how much will conform absolutely it's that was like probably one of the coolest classes i ever took but it's scary it's like it's scary okay so gavin de becker um is he wrote he works with celebrities the government like he works with with all these, not even necessarily all big profile, but people who are at the risk of being victimized by stalkers. And he has written this book. It's so fascinating. And he talks about how it's targeted toward women, but it's like how women ignore their instincts because

they don't want to be rude or they don't want to, you know, and how to basically it's called the gift of fear. It's like to trust your instinct because a lot of times like your senses understand that something's wrong before your brain does. Well, also, I think secondary, but still important. I mean, guys should still read it read too because they should be aware of what absolutely one of the most interesting things i've ever read which i don't know if it's controversial or not but it's on reddit it's this guy who wrote a post on let's not meet the subreddit where he said i was the person who made someone uncomfortable and he wrote a whole post about how he had um i think it was asperger's

and he was like i realized years later how i like accidentally targeted this woman and made her so uncomfortable in like a blockbuster or something and he wrote this whole from like that perspective so you're right like he's like i didn't even realize it until years later when someone was like this is not okay you're targeting somebody if you talk to them in this way or whatever and like he was very like you know apologetic for it but it's fascinating to think like i do feel bad for good guys out there who still don't understand exactly what yeah women have to go through yeah there's plenty of resources aka you should read this book aka this is the resource but it is really fascinating and it's like interesting because he used a lot of cases and he uses this rebecca shaver case

specifically also and her case actually in um instigated this it's sort of a task force and he's on this task force i don't know if he's ahead of it but he's like he might be ahead of it um this task force to like where they kind of go in and like emergency situations when like there's a stalker which sounds very like criminal minds but actually happens um but i also wanted to add because as much as we're talking about like oh celebrity stalkers and selena gomez um just say it it's just i don't like talking about it but yes okay so i do want to um kind of talk about like stalking in general real quick i'm not gonna like bore everybody with statistics but it's important to know yeah and a majority of people who are stalked are not celebrities um so a lot of people are in danger of it to begin with. I did read a New York Times article that I thought was really interesting.

There was a study done of the backgrounds and psychological profiles of stalkers. And more than half of the 24 male stalkers she interviewed had evidence of what psychologists call an attachment disorder. So from their childhood, they either had a loss or an absence in their life of a caring and consistent parent in the first six years of their life. So that's kind of an interesting little tidbit. And then the National Center for Victims of Crime defines stalking as a course of conduct directed at a specific person that would cause a reasonable person to feel fear. cause a reasonable person to feel fear. And the shit is no joke and can become violent and can escalate and usually will escalate if something is not done. And so some things that stalkers do follow you show up where you are send unwanted gifts, letters, cards or emails, damage your home car or property monitor your phone calls or computer use use technology

like hidden cameras or gps to track you uh drive by or hang out at your homeschool or work threaten to hurt you your family friends or pets um and other actions that oh going through your garbage to find out more about you um other actions that might control track or frighten you uh seven and a half million people are stalked every year in the united states over 85 percent of stalking victims are stalked by someone they know so i think that's important because like celebrity stalking is you know high profile but 85 percent of people or more than that know the person that's stalking them. 61% of female victims and 44% of male victims of stalking are stalked by a current or former intimate partner. Yep. Standard.

About one in five stalking victims are stalked by a stranger. Persons aged 18 to 24 years experience the highest rate of stalking. 11% of stalking victims have been stalked for five years or more. Holy crap. Which, can you imagine living five years? That's five years of fear. With somebody always behind you, always in the back of your mind. And 46% of stalking victims experience at least one unwanted contact per week.

So that's almost half of people hear weekly from this person who's stalking them, which is like the thought. Last thing, two-thirds of stalkers pursue their victims at least once per week, mainly daily, using more than one method, whether that's technology or being there in person or calling them. Whether that's technology or being there in person or calling them. One out of five cases, weapons are used to threaten the victim. Almost one third of stalkers have stalked before their current victim. And intimate partner stalkers frequently approach their targets and their behaviors escalate quickly. So if it's an intimate relationship, it usually escalates to violence quicker. And I can't even deal with this.

Is there a number or something that, if you're a victim of this right now? Oh, sure. Actually, yeah. Let me find it real quick. Okay. Yeah, so if you go to www.victimsofcrime.org slash SRC, you can, there's a ton of resources for, you know, if you feel like maybe you're being targeted or you know a loved one who's being targeted, you can also call them at 202-467-8700 or email them at SRc at ncvc.org um and one of my sorry one of my best friends had a very very very very scary violent experience with this and she was 21 and it it still breaks my heart so i i want to just say that if anything like this is scaring you or happening to you or someone you know, you're not the only person. And there are resources and people who want to help you.

So, okay. That's that. Yes. Good. Yes. Do you want to segue out of this? Yes. I want to hop on one of those nerdy little segways and you want to talk about moby dickhead

way on out what's that the guy on twitter the thread christine wait the guy with the ghost yeah his name is moby dickhead well that's his like oh i don't think i realized that was his handle moby underscore dickhead if you guys haven't seen oh my god if you haven't seen this thread i think he caught an actual fucking ghost no it's it gives me chills we're not gonna say anything just go read it but i'm actively following him and he just posted again tonight he did do you know what he did christine no what's the update the exact thing you're not supposed to do ouija board shut the fuck up yeah listen this dude has a ghost and he got a ouija board out he has a straight up ghost he had like

he was having sleep paralysis and saw this thing that was showing up and has been it's trying to get back to him and he recently moved and his cats are freaking out he's putting salt by his doorways it followed him and he has a photo of it and he has stairs he has a photo of it he's like i'm watching i'm literally this man i'm have chills right now me too he's okay give them the username it's his handle is moby underscore dickhead and he's straight up live tweeting you guys for haunting read the thread i got chills again read the thread i'm it's it's happening so much these chills me too it's really freaking me out like my hair is on the edge right now me too but it's the best thread i've seen in a while and like i don't want to say that because this poor guy's being terrorized by something,

but I can't, it's like a train wreck. I can't stop. Hashtag dear David. Hashtag. Just read it. Hashtag and that's why we drink. And that's why we fucking drink. Anyway.

Listen, go buy a fucking wine glass and put like gin in it. I don't care what you put in it. You can find us at and that's why we drink that big cartel.com and you can go buy yourself one of our wine glasses and get drunk with uh moby dickhead or if you're please because both of you deserve a drink also if you're team milkshake and you don't drink fine well then get a koozie and drink a fucking fanta or whatever you desire you can do what geo's doing right now and drink out of a dog bowl i'm trying to talk loudly so we can't hear him but it's not working anyway we love you guys so much thank you for all your support we'll be back soon from the emergency room

probably in bed and that's why we drink we're getting so good at it i know