And That's Why We Drink - E283 A Psychic Wordle Turtle and a Tangent Lasagna

Episode Date: July 10, 2022

It's episode 283 and Christine has stopped sleep-honking! Join us for another round of Brazilian alien encounters with the Mirassol Abductions, brought to you by Em's Google translating skills. Then Christine brings us a topic she's been emotionally preparing for: the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. In an attempt to lift the mood, we also discover both Christine and Eva were kicked out of their Brownies troops... and that's why we drink!

hey em how are you oh hi christine you really had your uh your i'm on voice going on there i am the broad of broadcasting after all. Well, I also feel like you probably feel obligated to be a little extra chipper because my heart thing's not happening right now, but I'm feeling a little, my chest is acting up, I guess. It gives me a flutter in my chest when Em says, huh, I'm feeling like my heart is a little wonky. And I'm like, oh no. Oh no. Well, no, I just took some medicine, so I should be fine in a little bit. But no, I just, and to not to like totally bomb everyone out, but like, I'm in like just the weirdest mood. I don't know what is going on, but like,

I just don't feel right. And then my heart thing was happening and I just like, I'm overheating. And today's a new moon in cancer. So in case you're wondering about that. I just felt my Gemini powers being stripped away yeah but a new moon and cancer is a good thing it's basically um like a big hug from the universe so maybe you're just getting smothered a little bit maybe i do feel a little smothered actually i feel a little like yeah because i kind of want to be like get off it's all about manifesting okay I manifest a healthy heart oh wait don't have that okay let me try something else um today I got the wordle in two yeses oh and someone really wanted to just talk about that okay no okay I know it doesn't

sound relevant and it probably isn't but I've been practicing my psychic abilities. Oh. And so I was like, I'm going to test it on the wordle because everyone got it in like six. Like it took everyone in my like little wordle group, the wordle turtles, a really long time. Okay. We'll get back to that. Yeah.

And so I was like, well, I'll, I'll try it. And so I can spoil it now for you. Right. Cause you're not going to do it. I've literally never played wordle in my okay so it was droll d-r-o-l sorry d-r-o-l-l like when like when british people would go how droll sure yeah and so uh and so i typed in chili like a chili pepper on the first guess and then i was like okay i'm gonna use my psychic thing and see what i can and i went i literally my head just went dro, like a little pop-up and I typed it

in and it was right. You know, I just said this five minutes ago about you off camera, but you are the scariest person to know because like, you're a little psychic. You're very interested in just learning anything in one night or less. Speaking of which, I was just telling him, I would love to learn how to animate um animate some xenon footage well christine what you really said was oh okay i'll just animate it and then you were like i was like you don't even know how to animate you're like i'll figure it out well here's a picture of me and chris angel that i keep meaning to um show you and so i'm sending it to you right now because on rituals we talked about chris angel a lot and so i need you to see the photo that i

meant to send you while we were recording rituals because i met chris angel and oh for god's sake like okay i can't wait to put this on instagram for this episode's picture you know what first of all when you enlarge it it's the pixelation that really gets it for me because it's so old but also um the fact that you took the time to put yourself in this position and you were like i feel like you the two obviously drawn on hearts that you did what i'm what i'm getting from this is you drew those two hearts and cut off your own arm to push your body closer to his so it looks like you're holding each other and i think in your minds you went this needs nothing else this needs to go on facebook the height of social media

success this is exactly perfect there's no changes changes needed. You know what? My heart does feel better. Thank you. This is what I'm trying to do is distract you and make you feel like superior in some way so that, you know, you just you calm your own nerves. And I feel really bad because Eva is in this call, but she's not on here right now. And I didn't text it to her. So I know she's feeling really left out. So I don't feel bad for her. Eva, you are. I'm going to send it to the Geo's Trio so that should I send it to the wordle turtles while i'm in it maybe i think really you should combine all of your rhyming groups and then we can all know who we are we could all talk about you together eva said oh my god christine i don't know if that's good or bad. Like, it reminds, I mean, it was when, I gotta just be honest, I know where those little

hearts came from, and they are from Microsoft Paint. Yeah, exactly. With confidence. With confidence they were from that. This was when I, back when I had a Toshiba, and I definitely couldn't afford Photoshop, or I didn't even know it existed. This was back in 04. I actually became really good at Microsoft Paint and I became

really good at whatever the Apple version is Apple Preview oh I wait yeah wait yeah you were weirdly good you used that and pages and made like entire yeah I can't photoshop I can't photoshop but you know what I can fucking rock some art on pages. You would like, and the problem became, and by the way, I said, oh, four, that's wrong. I was in seventh grade. This was definitely not before. This was like, you were old enough to know what you were doing. Yeah.

This is way too far into my life. Yeah. But the problem with M's like creepy skills on these like random platforms, like the free platform that comes with your laptop. They don't translate as a document well so we'd be like oh we're pit we're doing our new tour and our booking agent andrew was like okay do you have any graphics and m was like yeah i'll whip one up and it was like wow and m sent this awesome graphic and he was like can you send me and then they'd be without fail the venue would be like could you send me the high res like pdf a layered file and m was like

it's a pages document and they were like we don't know what it's literally word document it's like you were like i can export it into word or take a screenshot and they were like that no i i mean i know that but honestly what a compliment that a production company was like, we need the layered high res version of this. Like my entire escape rooms are made on Microsoft Pages, to be clear. So no, it's really incredible. It's it is a weird skill. But I think it was because I, I have the same need you do to want to know every skill, because might as well know a skill if you can figure it out. Right. But I would get too overwhelmed about not knowing a program. So I would learn it through a program I already felt safe with. Yeah. No, I totally get that. And so I'd be like, well, I can't do Adobe at all. But

man, I know how to rock a Microsoft Word. And also it was free with the laptop. You don't have to pay for it to try and learn it. Like it's such a big undertaking to be like i'm gonna learn photoshop but now i have to pay for it first like oh my gosh no no so you did it you don't need photoshop i well thank you but i i feel like you actually do it right and if you say i'm gonna learn to animate i know if i talk to you in 24 hours you will like work for marvel or something with your yeah right you better believe it'll be the jankiest like stop motion bullshit that takes eight seconds but like christine three days you are shocking for the time crunch and if i gave you three days and you first of all i know christine's up to something when she doesn't answer her phone like i know she has hyper fixated and spiraled so far that she doesn't even know what a Like, I know she has hyper fixated and spiraled so far

that she doesn't even know what a phone is anymore. No, no. I can draw one though on Adobe. If I gave you three days and taught you how to do a skill, the things that would come out of you in those three days are things that people would have spent like a whole summer camp trying to learn. Like, it is crazy.

And then if I gave you a week, forget about it. I don't even want to know. Blaze was like, I'm learning coding. And I was like, what? He was like, I'm taking coding course. And I was like, that's awesome. You know, why not? Like learn a hobby. And I'm like, finally, he and I are similar in that way that you and I are similar where we hyper fixate on things like his bourbon thing collection. And then now he's like learning coding and it's like all he's you know and uh and so I was like oh I took some coding courses but I got like really into it and then I needed to stop because I was like this is not my career like this is wasting my own time. I needed to stop before the CIA recruited me because I was so good at my myspace html. I know my html I know we all have a basic coding knowledge if we if I was so good at my MySpace HTML. I know my HTML. I know we all have a basic coding

knowledge. I was like, but Blaise, you never put pink skulls on your MySpace? And he was like, literally never. So he's like, I don't have a MySpace. I was like, brag. Think of what would have happened if Facebook never happened and we all just kept coding on MySpace. Do you know how many people in tech there would be today it would be stem out the wazoo think of how many people are in tech because of myspace because i was convinced at one point i was like i can same i can be a spy i can hack like this is amazing you and i would be the best spies except we would tell everyone we were spies so we'd be like the word we'd have one fatal flaw i think you're wrong because i think as long as we agreed to the buddy system and everyone gets a one tell no yeah yeah that's

fair we could probably pull that off if you were my one tell and i'd be your one tell and yeah yeah yeah really fuck up the world wow the end that's our podcast folks goodbye love chris angel yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna make megan put so by the way we have someone i know i feel like it's time we say it should i say it well it's you already have said it so yeah might as well finish the sentence we are working with someone named megan and it wasn't my choice it was not my choice to be clear and it't my choice. It was not my choice, to be clear. And it was my choice because I did say, OK, yeah, go for it. I was like, you know what? The world's on fire. What else could go wrong?

Exactly. Let's hire a Megan. Honestly, let's just like step one more step further into the chaos. And so Megan has been helping us a lot on social media. And so if you see any of those fun posts that she's been posting, they're from Megan. And so I'm going to say, Megan, here you go. And I'm going to send her this photo and say, post it on the internet. And I'm not even going to do it myself. She's going to press the button and it's not going to be my fault. So find it on Instagram.

Wake up one day to a bunch of complaints on our Instagram because everyone's like, this picture is too much for my eyes and then we're gonna blame Megan hello it's the perfect scenario maybe that's why we got a Megan so if anything goes wrong I could be like well come on wait a second that's actually genius because you know how people blame their own team like they're like I it's it's not me it's like the people my employees they I mean I'm I'm referencing a specific thing that I'm not going to call out but specific drama that happened on the internet but yeah people always love to blame their social media person and I feel like we could do that especially with a Megan definitely although I will say there are a few Scorpios out there who I have changed my

ways for in this Megan is is pretty much nailing it. Is she a Scorpio? That would be double trouble. Honestly, Megan, if you are, keep it to yourself, because I really am fighting this urge to scream today. We'll pay for you to change your birth date. I don't know how much that costs, but we'll pay. Really, Christine will pay you to tell me that you're a Scorpio. Oh, yeah, in a special animated feature that i created and produced myself oh talk about like a tangent

lasagna like we're just like this is a a disaster of an episode already i haven't i haven't even asked you how you are are you okay are you doing well well thank you for asking i haven't had a drink in several days because i've been trying to cut back because I got to a point where I was like, I mean, and I've done this occasionally and I've talked about on the show where I realized like, hey, I'm not sleeping well, etc. Maybe I should just cut out booze for a little bit and like, you know, make myself. And then is it working? And I did stop making the honking sound in my sleep for a couple days what a side effect interesting no so do you think it's alcohol related i think it's just when i'm really really tired but i've also been taking my iron supplements and i think they're finally kicking in so i think i'm like getting my little mojo back a bit um but so today uh as i warned everyone

and myself last episode i'm covering a very horrific case. That's one of the hardest that I've done ever. And so I am back to my booze hound ways for the evening. So I was going to say for the next hour, you might need more than your iron supplements for whatever. For you to say, I got my mojo back. Anyway, back to ruining the mood because it's going to be horrible here. Talk about self-sabotage. That's my favorite activity. Em, how are you doing? Besides today, I don't know. I really have been in such a weird mood

and I don't know if it's the universe. I don't know if it's just our planet which is just drastically in crisis every second uh but yeah i'm just feeling real bummy lately i'm feeling like not depressed i'm just like maybe it's depressed maybe it's like a a subtle depression where i'm just kind of like i just can't focus also i'm like my adhd has been a little crazy lately. So I just I feel like extra stupid lately. Like every one of my like big issues is obviously with ADHD is my like lack of focus or lack of attention. But I feel like I've been retaining things even worse than usual. So I just feel like I'm clueless and like I just feel like I'm always missing something in every conversation.

So I just maybe I'm just down on myself. I don't know. But my brain is not happy currently. So we'll get there, though. It's just one of those days. Give yourself a break. Give yourself some grace. It's a very hard time.

I, as you know, am a big believer in just energy. And I feel like the collective energy right now among the people we care about is very not good just just internally externally screaming all over the place and I feel like um it's it's totally fair that you feel off and don't know why I don't know how to put your finger on it um yeah because I think a lot of us are uh feeling the hurt yeah i feel like i feel weirdly stressed even though nothing too stressful is happening and i yeah which is the worst because you're like can't i just like relax when i have a chance to relax i totally get what you mean and you're like that's the feeling i have a day like it's i could i could just take a break i feel like

i'm wasting my day yes anxious about something coming up, but nothing's coming up. And then I just am not relaxing at all. I absolutely get that feeling. You're like keyed up. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like ready to fight and I don't know why. Yeah.

You're in like fight or flight. Oh, no. Anyway, I think I just need a... That's hard on your nervous system. I need a chocolate milk and I just need to like relax a little bit. You need a chocolate milk. Yeah, you do need relax a little bit. You need a chocolate milk. Yeah, you do need a chocolate milk. I do need a chocolate milk.

So that might be how I enjoy. I was actually supposed to have a chocolate milk yesterday as a reward for doing my notes. And then I forgot because of my ADHD. My one reward, I forgot to do it. So maybe today I'll have two chocolate milks and get real fucked up. I think you deserve two chocolate milks, but do it afterwards since you do have that phlegmy thing that happens when you drink dairy. Yeah. Fair enough. My reward will be I can't breathe for the rest of the day.

All right. Anyway, let's get into the story. I do feel a lot better, actually. I don't know if maybe it was just I just needed to vent or I just maybe a combo of like, I miss you and all this stuff. I just I think talking to you is always very calming. I always feel better when we after we chit chat. And I think I do, too. I don't know what it is. I mean, we don't necessarily want.

Yeah. And I think we don't always want to record because it's like wow it's such a big undertaking and it's so much time and it's so much emotional energy putting especially with like if we're doing like a dark story and it's so it's just like a big it's not that we don't want to record but it's like oh this is like a big project but i think then once we start talking it's like oh yeah this is also fun so oh yeah it's friendship yeah yeah i like this person a little tiny bit by the way i am keeping your chris angel picture up for the entire episode just so i have something to encourage me in this dark time okay so this is a continuation from the last episode i did which

was the maringa abduction yeah Oh my gosh. And we were actually supposed to record this episode a while ago, but I ended up having to push it with Christine because a lot of my research was in literal Portuguese. And was like, yeah, you know, I didn't realize it would all be in Portuguese. So I kind of need an need an extra hour i was like let's give it a couple days and we'll come back to this i will because i was trying to like run the notes through like google translate so then i ended up like it didn't really help because then i had to translate very very broken probably not right english and so a lot of this is guesswork um by the way have you ever seen i think it's jim Jimmy Fallon who does the Google Translate

game? No, but I love Jimmy Fallon. And you're not a Jimmy Fallon fan, right? I don't like Jimmy Fallon. I love him. Unless we ever get on Jimmy Fallon, then I could not love a man more. Then scrub this from the record. No, but I fucking love.

So I feel like I may have seen it, but it sounds like something he would do. It's like he makes, I think it's like a they he makes i think i think it was like he has musicians come on and sing a song that's been thrown through google translate and then brought back to english really funny actually i think the games are his whoever's creating they're so good whoever creates the games fucking brilliant you need your own show where you just teach us how you create those. It's true. All the bits, they're just excellent. I'm just not a Jimmy Fallon fan. I love him. I think I'm a Kimmel kind of person.

Love Kimmel. I love them all. Well, not all. You know who you are. You know who I loved when I was younger was, and by loved I mean like was in love with, was Chelsea Handler. Chelsea lately, I thought I was going to marry her.

You know it's so funny is my pal Alyssa Evans was also just obsessed with Chelsea Handler and is now also very into women. And I'm like I wonder if that was also a little. I wonder if she's like I wonder if she's like a bridge into the gay world. I don't know. There's something about her. I just, I don't know what her, I don't know. I don't know what my deal is with her, but if I ever met her, I think I'd be incredibly

starstruck. Oh my gosh. Anyway, so basically Portuguese ruined my day last week and I couldn't figure out how to translate my notes in time so we're doing this a little delayed but um to catch you up the Moringa abduction was uh a guy and his brother getting abducted by aliens and uh the main character of the last episode Joselino he um they were separated so we don't know what happened to their brother. But at least for Joselino, he ended up being essayed by a female alien. And with the intention of there was a they were conducting an experiment to try to have a baby with a human.

Yikes. Yikes. baby with a human yikes yikes um and what was the reason that this story is coming up today that i'm about to cover is because this story only happened two months later um and so it's around the same time relatively in the same area on earth um and so they they are usually paired together as a interesting that these happen at the same time and have so many parallels right um so this is the story of i think it's called the mira soul contact um and the our main character is antonio carlos ferreria ferreira Ferreira. Ferreira? Ferreira? I think that's how you say it. And so here we go, I guess.

I guess. You seem very confident. I was going to try to, like, piece them together more, but I was like, well, we'll get there. We'll get there in the story. I don't know what it is in Portuguese, but you should say, vamos. Just vamos will do. That's all we're going to do. Okay. So Mirasol is a city in Sao Paulo. And Antonio Carlos, who is our main character,

the thing that's interesting about him is that he had up to 20 encounters with these beings after his first abduction. So he has been experiencing things through the 70s into the 80s. And I don't know if it continued after that. The furthest we get is to 1986. Wow. And it seems like the aliens were showing up about every 18 months or so. Gee, that's a lot. Yeah. It's like right when you forget about it, they come like you're like oh so much time's passed never mind never mind so this is also

similar to a case from 1957 which um i have not covered before but i feel like now i'm really on a roll and probably should cover this. There's a case of a man named Antonio Villa Boas in 1957, and he was also essayed by extraterrestrials. I think that's why I've never covered it, because I think all of these I was really uncomfortable to cover, because I'm not someone who usually has to handle talking about that kind of stuff publicly and I get really nervous and all that. So it's obviously undertaking. Obviously I have the best intentions and I am on the right side of history, everybody. So I hope if I ever say anything that I just get nervous because I want to make sure I'm doing it justice and while also

not re-traumatizing anyone who might be listening. So yeah, I've been avoiding these topics for a while and now that I'm in the thick of it, maybe that one will also be coming up soon. I'll be honest. That's kind of why I'm doing the Girl Scout murders today is because I've been ignoring them for so long. And I got to a point where I was like, I have the notes. Yeah. It's a very, I've been seeing it around in the news a little bit and I'm like, Hey, I need to like, I don't know. I just feel like I needed to tell the story and even though it's rough so it's rough yeah look at us breaking our own I know well I feel bad for you because for me just talking about essay and my story is rough but for you you have to like really tell a horrible story we're both stretching our boundaries in

different ways but on the flip side you have to react to it which is also not fun it's gonna be a lot of me going oh my god i don't want to be here so yeah yeah yeah how good for you and me and everybody so anyway one of the sources out there about this uh alien abduction or several abductions is called ufo contact at miras. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Mirasol would be the... And like I said, a lot of sources either were in Portuguese or had Portuguese in them or the quotes were in Portuguese and it's just a bit of a nightmare for me. It was just a new challenge

that I don't usually have to deal with. Right. And so I don't really have anything except to just kind of start listing what happened during each of the encounters so uh and i don't have all 20 encounters written out some of them i couldn't find anything on except that he had another encounter and then it just goes into the next date um but there are some dates that are very notable so one of the first ones uh that's very notable is his first encounter with them and keep in mind this was only two months after the story that i did last week so um

interesting timing and how close is this place to where the first one happened five and a half hours away okay but in brazil in brazil got it um so there you go only five hours away two months from the last time that this happened okay so this is june 28th 1979 and at 3 a.m our main character antonio he is working as a security guard uh during the night shift at a furniture factory and so he's doing his rounds and he makes his way to like a a bathhouse or a outdoor bathroom and he's walking around with his guard dog so the two of them are walking up through the courtyard up to this bathhouse and all of a sudden they see a light touch down outside

and not knowing what it is they go out to see a gray metallic UFO with three legs coming out of it it's like it's like on a tripod and it has green and red lights and out of it it's like it's like on a tripod um and it has green and red lights

and out of the ufo come three male humanoid beings oh boy we're coming in hot this is a very for real there's no uh warm-up into this story no so these three and apparently they were similar to some of them at least uh were similar to how the ones looked in our last episode where they were like oddly human like you almost wouldn't even notice it makes you wonder if they're like projecting themselves into a way that you can see them you know yeah um and so these three humanoids they have white jumpsuits and full face helmets. So you can't even see their face, like an astronaut helmet. The jumpsuits had boxes on either side.

So one box on the chest and one box on the back of the jumpsuit. And one of the boxes had a tube leading to the helmet. So I guess this is how they're breathing in our atmosphere oh okay and the jumpsuits had an insignia on it um and the symbol was a cross inside of a circle so it looks like almost like a like an archery like a target oh okay yeah um and so they him and this dog they see these three things come out of a ufo and the guard dog lunges at them and they do something it was like clearly like by using the force i guess and they do something to make the dog stop in its tracks and like kind of fall over so he's not being dangerous to them they didn't kill him though right no they just kind of knocked him over so

he wouldn't charge at them. But I will say, apparently for the next few weeks, the dog did have some behavioral changes. He was probably scared. He had some trauma, yeah. But the dog was fine and that's the end of the story with the dog. So we can remove him from our head. Thank you for gently handling me with care. You're welcome. I struggle through your story.

I knew to even warn you that we were done with that so like you don't even have to think about it so much so much um so so now it's just uh not angelino antonio i was like in my head i was like los angeles i was like los angeles hang on i complete in my head that's where i am right i was like los angeles hang on i complete in my head i messed it up i am right i was like angeline i was like that's what i am technically so um antonio uh he's by himself with these three things he's just watched them knock over the dog without even touching the dog and they have this box and they open up the box and inside is this red laser or red light, and they point it at Antonio, and it paralyzes him.

And then he starts floating and floats with them to the craft. Uh-oh. That's what happened to Joselino. Joselino also floated. Mm-hmm. Yep. And Antonio says that his main way of transit to these ufos every time was through floating so already a similarity there also these humanoid looking beings i don't remember they're them having jumpsuits or an insignia with the last guy but they do seem to be like relatively human looking so i don't know yeah yeah um and this is a quote

so he he's in the middle of the courtyard when he sees this and then he starts floating um onto the ufo and a quote about it later said later investigation showed that a few meters from the bathhouse his steps on the ground disappeared in such a way that it seemed like he went out and evaporated into thin air and there were no other steps besides his oh my goodness confirmation that he just began floating in the middle of the grass but also there were no steps from anyone else so like where were they floating or are they so light they don't leave footprints i don't know oh my god so when he was brought back to the craft he saw he was able to see earth through a window i guess their windows had like

red glass he so he was looking through this red glass window red tinted window and he could see earth but he could tell that he was very far away so this is a quote about him looking through the window twice when antonio carlos came near this window he felt very truthfully horrified to see the earth very small and distant where he could make out small lights very dim and he thought they might be cities oh that's gotta be freaky in like seconds flat this guy is like not near Earth. He also apparently saw while on this UFO, quote, four robot like creatures that were parked in a row along the wall when they were not working. So these aliens also have robots. OK, so it's not the aliens. It's a different thing.

Yeah. They like have their own C-3PO. I don't know okay so here are here's a description of the different types of extraterrestrials you saw there they all had uh for the most part the first group of them were about four feet tall they had very large facial traits so big eyes big ears big nose they had large slanted eyes but no eyebrows they had green or brown skin and the people with brown skin had red curly hair or they were lighter skinned with straight black hair so those are the ones that probably look the most human i guess sure um just because because the combination of green skin with red hair

is not what I find often here. But so there was also dark skin or light skin with straight black hair. So I would say those are probably, maybe those were the ones that he felt. Their nail in it. Yeah, if they were all in disguise, they were definitely doing the best job.

Their parents bought their Halloween costumes instead of making them so the other group of people that he saw some of them had maroon colored skin and some of them were very light skinned with blonde hair and blue eyes and those people were the ones that had a white and blue jumpsuit with a green belt okay so. So he saw like a real variety of people. Yeah, for real. And apparently of all of them, the green aliens, the green skin aliens, they seem to be the alphas because they were the one that he always saw

at control tables giving orders. The green skin ones. The green skin ones. So I don't know if there's a hierarchy but he thinks the green ones were probably in charge okay okay and they had the red hair uh that's what i think green or brown skin with red curly hair okay so he was then uh this is still during his first encounter while he was up there he was put in front of this tv projector kind of thing to have his photo taken. And he thinks this machine

was also somehow able to like read his thoughts. Oh, I didn't get any more information other than that. But he was like, it can tell what I'm thinking. You know, I've heard a few abduction stories where people say, oh, they knew what I was thinking. So creepy, elaborating. And I wonder if there's just a way that you can know like, oh, they're in my mind. No wonder you're so scared of them maybe being able to read your mind because it does seem like a common thread. Right. Like they can. And also like we don't know what their machines can do. Maybe it really was like an x-ray before your thoughts. Or what if it was like maybe it was translating however you speak so then it could

talk to you i don't know um so anyway so then he goes into this room with quote one of these small beings who was completely nude clearly demonstrating her intention to take his hand so this is where i say trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning. Skip a few minutes and hopefully if this is something you don't want to hear, then, you know, I hope you, you know. Good luck. I hope you avoid it. Yeah. So she is completely nude, tries to take his hand, and she's very, very heavily implying that she wants him to kiss her um and he kept saying he kept thinking the whole time that he didn't want to because she was ugly

okay so okay and when they saw but here's the thing because apparently he's even at one point telling her like you're ugly i don't know she's reading his fucking mind so that must be awkward that's actually a good point i yeah that makes me wonder then too because i'm like if they can read his mind that they had to know he didn't want this i don't think they seem to care very much they certainly don't because my next bullet is when they saw he wasn't interested on his own three of the male beings tore off his clothes and when he fought back they got really aggressive oh my god um interestingly they made no efforts to undo his buttons or his zippers or his fasteners at all um they just ripped his shirt from the collar down and um in hindsight researchers have thought maybe this is because they were all wearing one piece jumpsuits and they didn't know how fasteners work.

Sure. I guess if you don't have a button on your planet, how are you supposed to know? Right. So one of the theories is that I know how fucked up this sounds and I'm not in agreement with it. But one of the theories is they didn't mean to be so aggressive. They just don't know how to take off human clothes. Right. And so that was a thought. And then here is a quote. It is very long, but I did not want to mess it up about the experience he had.

Um, it appears that the UFO knots stripped Antonio naked and then rubbed his body all over with a thin yellowish oil, even his face, perhaps as a disinfectant or a germicidal agent to protect the female cosmonaut and possible to protect him also from transmittal of some kind of bacteria that might be harmful to us. This may also have been the reason for stripping him naked. I beg to differ going further, but okay. Then when he resisted the attention of the UFO knot, he was made to drink a different liquid, possibly an aphrodisiac, to stimulate his interest in the act with the woman. Oh my God.

Yeah. When he still resisted, he was held securely by three of the UFO knots and was given an intravenous injection in the left arm. Yeah. And this evidently had the desired effect, but he was still fighting to resist touching her because he thought she was ugly. It was at this point that he was given a shot of something

in the right arm and they fastened an instrument onto his left arm. The shot broke his resistance and he felt weak all over he was lifted and held in position on top of the female extraterrestrial to complete the sex act possibly monitored by the instrument on his left arm because they knew when to let him go so it's as if it was reading. That was bad. Yeah. And also, like, I beg to differ on, like, oh, because he thought she was ugly. It's like, maybe he's just like, I don't want this. Maybe he just doesn't fucking want this. It doesn't matter why.

Right. So I saw one set of notes that said that he was, like, screaming, like, you're ugly. I don't want this. And it was, I don't know. For all we know know that was just him trying to say anything that would hurt her so that he wouldn't have to to like explain or something yes um and interestingly this answers a question i had from the last episode when i was like it's really i'm curious as to why or how it worked that um jose leno when he also experienced something like this not as

physically aggressively i guess but um unless we don't know all the information but in his story he was also on top and i was i was confused because i was like how was that happening but in this story that kind of answers it Where like three different beings held him on top. Yeah. And it seemed to control him with some sort of armband or whatever. Yeah. That could like tell when he was no longer. Disturbing.

This is, that's deeply disturbing. Yeah. This is definitely the most uncomfortable I've ever been, I think, reporting a story on my end. Yeah. I don't blame you it's a toughie so after all this they reapplied that oil on him and then let him put his clothes back on okay um so i think that is probably where we can end the trigger warning it doesn't get more as graphic as that so so if you have been skipping forward, you should be okay.

Yes. No. And the extraterrestrials, I don't know what to call them. I like the word cosmonaut. That was cool. Yeah, they said UFO-naut. Yeah. That's interesting.

So these UFO-nauts, they apparently talked to each other in the room with him after this but they were talking in a language that sounded something like japanese and apparently all of their voices were just in a higher pitch just to give you a description of how they talked um and so he couldn't understand them but when they would look at him and directly talk to him, all of a sudden he could understand them. Sure, yeah. So creepy. Creaky. So maybe it was telepathically that he could hear them.

And these beings basically said that they were now going to, or they had just examined the woman in the other room, and they told Antonio that she was pregnant with his baby. Wait, what? I guess it works differently up there. You don't have to wait a certain amount of time to find out. They were able to see instantaneously that she was now pregnant. Okay. And then

this is a quote from them. Apparently they told Antonio, this was not the first such experiment to succeed. So this has happened the first such experiment to succeed. So this has happened to other people. Dear God. They said they were researchers trying to, quote, produce a child of an Earth man. And then they said they would come back so he could meet his kid.

How nice. He's like, yeah, thanks. Thanks. I did not ask for that. I don't think they also marked him with their sim with the symbol of the cross in a circle i don't know if that means they branded him or something um weird there's there's no proof ever that that i could find that he like shows off his markings to people which like first of all why would you that's not anyone's business

by your own but also if he was looking like, prove anyone wrong or prove anyone right or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it could just be, like, a marker that washed off. um but all i know is that they marked him and i don't know what that word means um but so they marked him with their symbol um and then they made him drink quote a dark disagreeable exotic tasting liquid okay that's awful it's called kalua no um and basically when he came back or when they brought him back to earth all he remembers is waking up near the bathhouse by the courtyard at 5 a.m oh my god and he's like still on the job yeah right oh my god what a fucking suck what a point i didn't even think about that like oh now he's still working now it's 5 a.m. and he's like, super. Yeah. And I don't know if I think that whole story was found out later in hypnosis. I think he just lost time at 3 a.m. to 5 a.m.

That's what happens a lot, too, is that like these stories are buried subconsciously until hypnosis brings it out. Well, that's also what happened with Joselino in the last episode where he had to go get hypnosis to even know what happened to him. And he just kind of woke up in the spot where he remembers passing out, and that's what happened here. So it's like they erase your memory, but they can't fully get rid of it almost. Yeah. I wonder if that's what the gross liquid was,

that maybe it's like a memory eraser. I hadn't thought of that. I don't know but when so when he came to um he saw an injection mark on his arm yikes he saw oh he saw a burn mark so maybe he was burned maybe that was it yeah um and he experienced intense body tingles uh which apparently lasted on and off for years after this oh so well that, that sounds a lot like the, well, maybe not. But in my mind, it reminds me of the electric shock that the other guy. Yeah, well, I was going to say Joselino also, he felt a lot of body tingles.

I remember he said like he was like walking around and he felt body tingles when it was following him for the first time. And it didn't feel like he said they were bad chills. Oh, the chills. Yeah. Oh, ew. So I wonder if those are the same. first time and it didn't feel like he said they were bad chills oh the chill yeah oh ew so i wonder if those are the same but also yeah maybe he was like a little electrocuted or something from because in the last story i covered joselino got shocked when he tried to talk about what

happened about it so when he got home his mom could tell he was acting weird and he eventually told her and she went looking for help um so that was the first encounter and next i guess um i don't know if there was an encounter during this time this was part this was a part that was like all portuguese and i couldn't translate um so something happened during august and september in 1979 and all i know uh about this time is that antonio went to go get hypnosis therapy um with uh a guy named alvaro fernandez uh and he did this to try to remember what happened in his first two sessions were august 5th and and August 19th. And that was when I think maybe he was able to recall what happened in June. Right. So I don't think I even noticed this until right now.

So August 5th is when he had his first hypnosis therapy session, which is when he would have started talking about this to somebody. And maybe the aliens knew about it or heard him talk about it because the next day was his next encounter aha oh see i'm picking up on things i didn't even know i was picking up on okay so that august 5th was hypnosis day august 6th um going into august 7th at 11 o'clock at night there was a strange object that was seen flying through the skies of mirasol um many people saw it in the city it was reported by a lot of people because people were like what the fuck is going on yeah it was apparently uh an oblong shape it was dark yellow and had lights around the rim of it okay and alongside this ufo a one that was red instead of gold was also seen

and it was moving a lot slower like it was on patrol or searching for something ew and it was reportedly disappearing in front of people's eyes and re-emerging in different places so it was like it had either like some sort of incognito and visibility mode or it was teleporting or something um and the main theory is that the yellow ufo was the mother ship and the red one was a lower ranking ship doing a task i don't love that well so that was at 11 p.m august 6th um i think antonio was asleep at the time so he didn't even know that that happened and people were seeing these ufos but six hours later uh he was abducted so it was like six hours after everybody was reporting all of this stuff took them six hours to find this guy

i know it's not a very good little teleporter down there. Well, so he, I, I, we assume he was abducted because he left for work around 4am, but he, um, he planned on going to work, but then he saw this red light and felt dizzy. And maybe that comes from the red ship. So he saw this red light and felt really dizzy and it made him feel so sick. He couldn't remember anything else and ended up walking back home and he got home at 6 a.m so there's two hours of time missing oh no but all he remembers is feeling dizzy sitting down and then getting up and going home but two hours passed and he didn't live that far away on foot from work yeah and while walking home he had body tingles again, and he later found another injection mark on his arm. And that injection site was beginning to bleed at random.

Ugh. Ugh. Now that I do not like. No. So that's maybe the second time that there was an encounter. Okay. After that, in September, he sees a green light that apparently spoke telepathically to him uh the same thing happens to him a month later on october 8th uh and then there's several

months that go by without anything until february of 1980 and all i could find for sources on this was the words trees uprooted so i don't know i don't know what that means but apparently something alien he happened to him and trees were uprooted or he found trees that were uprooted i don't know very scary then nothing happens until like two years later, as far as my notes could find. Maybe there was something I missed. But January 1982, he sees one of these beings in the woods. No, absolutely not. Why is he in the woods? Six months later in July 1982, he sees another UFO similar to the ones he'd seen before.

But it was so close to him that he could look through the window. And in the UFO, he could see a female alien and a smaller alien looking at him, which may or may not be his child and the person he had the child with. I didn't even think about that. The child. Because now it's been what four years or something three years i didn't even think about that oh god m no so they're like anyway here we promised you could see your child exactly so they were looking at him through the window and that was as far as i know the whole encounter a month later though antonio is beamed up to the ufo through a green light and when he gets there uh onto the ufo he's injected with this yellow liquid and he meets two aliens and one of them

is allegedly his child and it's either this is either the right date or it's two years later. I saw different sources say different things. So it was either this August 1982 or in 1984. This happens where he meets his child. But it comes up eventually. And then that same year, four months later, New Year's Eve 1982 at 2 a.m. Antonio wakes up to a bright green light and in his own house he wakes up to this green light in his house and he sees that the back door to his house is open oh no and he hears a noise in the next room oh my god honestly forget it forget it the same three aliens

that he has seen many times at this point they were in the room when he went to go check and they asked, are you scared? And he literally said no one walked away, which at this point, how could you? Like, I think that's such a badass power move of like, oh, no, I'm not scared. Please fucking leave me alone. I just want to go back to sleep. Yeah. And so he was like, no, I'm not scared. And he tries to walk away. But then I don't know if that pissed him off or if they weren't done with their

conversation. But all of a sudden they have this object that can shoot green light and they shot it at him. So I don't know if it was like, are you scared? You should be. What do you mean you're not scared and we don't have power over you? don't know what caused it but all the green light do so it shot at him and the light burned his shirt oh and i i guess maybe either once it hit his shirt maybe he moved or either they were their their shooting was shaky because not only did it burn the shirt but it also burned the calendar on the wall next to him. So, and he doesn't remember anything else after that. But when he comes to, hours later, he sees that his chest and arm have another injection mark

and he has cuts all over him. Oh my God. This is when Antonio went looking for his own help and he finds a guy named Professor Ney Matiel Pires. Pires? Pires? I'm not sure how to pronounce it. I think it's Professor Pires. And he agrees to meet Antonio like the next day.

He's like, listen, it's New Year's Eve. I'm probably very sleepy. I'll see you tomorrow. or z but probably very sleepy i'll see you tomorrow so so the next day he shows up and he goes to the house and he sees his shirt and the calendar and the wall all with these burn marks so he knows that antonio's legit and two months later in march 1983 apparently three different times this month antonio witnesses the extraterrestrials again. Oh my God. So that was, imagine thinking like, oh, I just saw them, but they only show up every six months or so. At least I've got six months off, but now it's March and you see them three times in a month. Like, it's like, it's just

so chaotic now. Like the timing makes no sense. It's scary. You never know. Because then after he saw them three times that month in March, 1983, he doesn't see them again until summer 1984. Okay. So it's really just at random, which is just additionally horrible because you can't even prepare for it. No. So this is July 15th, 1984. And this becomes a thing where he, the next few times he experiences them is when he steps outside for a second. And like the second his foot hits the outdoors, he is getting beamed up by a light. Like doesn't stand a fucking chance.

No. See, this is when my thought is, if they ask me, are you scared? I'd be like, fuck yes. It's like you win. I'm out out i don't want this anymore yeah exactly that's what i would do too um so he wakes up in the middle of the night and every time it seems like he's waking up for a random reason like he was weirdly overheating one night um so i don't know if like they're causing him like maybe they can't beam him up in the house

because for all the times they encounter him they can can't bring him into the UFO from inside a house. I wonder if like they, he would like hit the roof and get stuck on his house or something where like he like can't go through, he can't phase through other objects. They have this pretty decorative grate on the chimney so they can't really like pull him through there either. They have this pretty decorative grate on the chimney, so they can't really pull him through there either. Well, also I was thinking, I feel like, wasn't there a UFO story I covered a while ago where they would almost hypnotize you into walking outside yourself? Or maybe they, I feel like they just floated you through your own house until you could get to the door? I don't know. That's freaky. I feel like something like that has happened.

But I guess they can't get to him if he's in his house or they can't at least beam him up they can only come inside and interact with them there but um anyway so he wakes up in the middle of the night for no reason and he goes outside to get some fresh air instantly beamed up by a green light and he's brought to a planet's surface. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Not even just hanging out in the sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So apparently these are the same beings as usual, but there's one of each. So he sees one with maroon-colored skin, one with green-colored skin, and one with white-colored skin.

Okay. And they put this device on his left arm. Feels normal at this point, probably. They took some of his blood, and then these escorts brought him to a spaceport um which was hidden inside of a crater oh interesting even crazier this crater apparently was inside of whatever living rock is huh they? They said, oh, the crater's inside living rock. I was like, uh, girl, that's rock. Girl, what? I'm confused. So anyway, they go into this crater, they see a spaceport, and he realizes that this spaceport is basically like a garage for a variety of different UFO ships. I saw in one source that they actually taught him how to fly a fucking UFO. Oh!

I saw in one source that they actually taught him how to fly a fucking UFO. Oh. So, but then that's another thing where it's like, is this Stockholm Syndrome-y or is he just agreeing to everything just for his own self-preservation? Or does he not have control and they're just controlling him? That's how I would think it is, that he's just like smiling and nodding and getting through it to survive. Right. But one article kept making it sound like they were buddies now, which freaks me out. But then I also think about the last episode where Joselina was like, they're really good people. And I'm like, are you saying that because you mean it or because you're scared?

It does sound like Stockholm Syndrome. Right? For lack of a better word. Yeah. I don't know what the right phrasing is but like i want to believe everything a survivor is saying but also like it's a little hard to believe i'm like are you do you just not feel safe and you feel like you have to make light of it or also apparently while he's in this crater and in this garage with all the ufos he sees rocks with symbols on them uh in the i guess he's assuming it's the this alien language um on

some of these rocks he sees the same emblem that they have on their jumpsuits he sees a triangle apparently they started marking him with these triangles and symbols that he was seeing on the rocks and during this event they injected him with a white substance and marked him with more symbols. Oh, my God. And while he's here, he also sees hairy extraterrestrials that look like monkeys. And then he also sees what looks like hairy crabs, but they feel cold as ice to the touch. And here's the weird thing. Apparently, the beings told him, oh, yeah, we release a few of those at every place we land.

Like what? The beings, not the crabs. The extraterrestrials said they released the crabs. They released these little crab things at every place they land. So like if you've ever seen a really hairy crab that's ice cold to the touch. I don't know. Apparently he'd never seen one before. But he was like, what the fuck is this?

And they're like, oh, yeah. Like, also, what? Do they have, like, GPS on them or something? Like, is it to track that you've been here before? Like, a bucket list checkoff? Like, what's... I don't know what's happening. But is it for fun?

Is it, like, a weird shitty prank? I don't know. I don't get it. How weird. And so at the same time, before he gets back to Earth, he's looking out of the windows and he can see the atmosphere. Apparently, he actually properly described what was going on in the atmosphere that night because later they were able to corroborate that with like meteorologists.

And they were like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what's happening oh that's freaky but he was like front row front and center being able to watch what was happening it was super creepy so then at the end of this trip the extraterrestrials finally maybe introduce him to his daughter um and i say maybe god i say maybe because there was another source that said this happened two years prior but this this source seemed to have more information um so at the end of this trip he sees these monkeys he sees his hairy crabs and now he's seeing his daughter apparently her name is azalea and uh she seemed bigger than human children are at that age apparently she was very very smart apparently she was was dark skinned with red hair and she had smaller ears.

So I guess she got her ears from him because usually they have, I know, but usually they have like larger slanty pointy ears. Oh, okay. And, and her seemed more human. Um,

and apparently quote, she had no desire to meet her terrestrial relatives so oh there you have that honestly they should have just let it be then but okay exactly yeah if she wasn't he was asking to meet her either so i i mean i can't even imagine what that what that experience is like i imagine part of you is re-traumatized yeah like maybe curious maybe not i don't know um so i don't know what he was going through in the moment probably just shell-shocked again about having to be abducted for the 20th time in like five years um and so that was in july and then they don't talk to him again until November, where, again, he wakes up in the middle of the night.

He goes outside for a moment, immediately beamed up, this time by a red light, which I don't know if green and red light mean different things. But the first time he saw the UFO, he said it had green and red light. So maybe it's just like a random a random luck of the job i don't know yeah um so he gets beamed up then uh a month later it's 11 p.m and he walks outside and is again instantly beamed up um he doesn't remember anything lost a chunk of time but there was an injection site when he woke up and then they leave him alone for another couple months until march 1985 and there's another encounter where he is thought for i think this was thought to be the last encounter for a while um but they just keep showing up so i think this was one of the moments where he actually felt like

ah no more and then it just kept happening a year later may 1986 uh at this time it happens literally at antonio's fucking work and he was apparently so fed up he was especially because like that was like over a year later so maybe he thought like i'm finally getting some peace that must be a nightmare like you just he's like it's never gonna end so he was fed up he fucking snapped and he pulled a gun on the ufo because he's a security guard so he had a gun on him at work so he called for backup which i wonder if that means he had told people already like oh yeah this ufo follows me mobilize or if he was like i don't know if he was just gonna blow their minds when they saw a ufo i don't know what he thought was gonna happen but he called for backup

and pulled out a gun and the backup didn't get there in time and all they found was his hat and gun on the ground and they called the police and everyone was looking for him all day and apparently he had been beamed up again and woke up hours later outside of the factory in some bushes holy shit and the he was still in touch with this professor who was trying to help him the professor i think was aware of like his hypnosis conversation so maybe like he was more involved or invested or in in the know but he came with the police looking for him when he went missing and the professor uh apparently is the one that found uh burn marks in the grass that looked like ufo legs and a ramp like a descending ramp um and i guess he was able to calculate the size of the ufo that picked him up and it was only three meters wide but a lot of antonio's stories seem

like he was first picked up by a smaller UFO and then brought to the mothership. Oh, okay. So the last encounter we know of, or that at least I could find, was a month later in June 1986. It was around 10.30 a.m., which was the first time that he had been abducted in broad daylight. He was beamed up again, and that's really the last of the sightings I could find. And as for Antonio and the extraterrestrials, they apparently know that the professor was trying to help Antonio.

And so of the professor, apparently the extraterrestrials are, quote, aware of the professor and his interests and what he's doing. They showed Antonio how they can see what is happening at a distance. They have not agreed to allow the professor to meet Antonio's extraterrestrial daughter yet, but they have not ruled it out yet either. So what the fuck?

Can you imagine finding out that your friend who keeps getting abducted, like they know about you? Can you imagine if I got abducted and then I was like, by the way, they told me to tell Christine hi. Honestly, yeah, because that is my fear is that they know that I'm thinking about them. They imagine if I got abducted and I came back down and I was like, they told me to tell you they are aware. They aren't sure if you're allowed to meet your niece slash nephew slash nibbling yet um but maybe someday for i mean truly for the i and i mean like this guy was just trying to help antonio through it but i guess maybe they had told him like don't talk to anybody well it sounds like

he was like very invested and interested which is probably not to their benefit right yeah anyway that that is the story of the mirasol abductions oh my god and that happened like two months after the fucking other guy maringa abduction yeah and it does have a lot of parallels i mean they both all the way down to the awful graphic stuff stuff yeah but like constantly losing track of time having these body tingles do you think uh like researching both of these do you think they are the same group of extraterrestrials i don't know because the description of how they looked was different for each of them but um i wonder if that's just like they were different departments of the same research team or something. I don't know.

Or if they like present how they think you personally would react. I also like to think of it. Yeah, that's true. But then again, like I don't think meeting someone with green skin is going to make me feel more relaxed about my abduction. But I do. Speak for yourself i do wonder um you know how like when there was like a the race to the moon like i wonder if there's like there was a race to this experiment competing almost yeah maybe it was like just a because for it to also be in the same location only two months later like same time same place it feels like they were racing to for their second

place yeah that's interesting so maybe that's what it was i have no idea you know i'm freaked out i know you're freaked out and next week i i was thinking about doing the other the antonia villa boas case but i might hold off on that i don't know if I can tolerate talking about essay three weeks in a row so god yeah I mean give yourself a break I guess yeah shout out by the way to um I've got a friend named Emma who works at Starbucks um they oh I wanted those cups so bad she's a real homie she was like a huge fan of London Fog Friday which I wish I could still do, but I still can't figure out fucking close friends on Instagram. Honestly, close friends is letting us down because they make it so difficult.

Astronomically. Like they make it so. Yeah. But so during London Fog Friday, Emma was like, I work at Starbucks. You tell me what you need. You get it. And I was like, Emma, ooh la la. And so got me everything to make a Starbucks El Foggy at home and these color changing cups. And she still texts me regularly to give me updates on like

what the new flavors are that are coming out, but haven't been released yet. Okay. You got to, why don't you text me that? I'm your S-Bucks buddy. I will. It was mainly the last update i think was to let me know that the s'mores frappuccino was not coming back and i'm glad she well it's it's every it's every summer so it would have happened by now they were discontinued i know i'm glad she let me down before i looked like a fool at every starbucks trying to find it so honestly i didn't i don't drink many Frappuccinos, but that's the one I like. The s'mores one rocked my goddamn world. It was the only one. Now I'm

just never going to have a Frappuccino again. I mean, that's the good one. I like that and java chip, but you don't like coffee. So s'mores is the way to go. Well, java chip, if you want it without the coffee flavor, you ask for double chocolate chip and that's what you get. Okay. So it still exists, but there was nothing like that. The s'mores cream frappuccino. Oh, forget about it. It was like just drinking a cloud. That's too bad.

Anyway, if you are Emma, no offense, but if there's someone out there who's higher up at Starbucks, who's like the president. Sorry, Emma. Emma, I know, I'm sure you have screamed for me but it didn't work or did you were you friends with emma before the podcast emma's a listener oh that's pretty badass just was just a big fan of london fog friday just wow always gave me the hookup but so um i'm gonna need emma to find like the ceo of starbucks and get s'mores back on the menu. Sure, yeah. Find the CEO. I'm sure Emma, well, like... It's like that TikTok sound of like, why don't you just call Taylor up? Especially now that four of your stores have unionized and you can finally... No, I'm just

kidding. I'm very proud of all the unionized Starbucks. Downtown Cincinnati is the first in the city to unionize. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm very proud of them. Fun. So, yeah. Emma, come on. Emma, you were doing great for a while, but I'm gonna need you to step it up for s'mores season. Honestly, this is what it's like to be friends with Em. Like, the bar just keeps going higher and higher, and you just can't win. It's my job

to always let you know that you can do more than you realize, and if it benefits me, then let's really make it happen. Oh, I see. Oh, it's all about self empowerment for M's sake.

Um, I don't know if you know this. I am a Gemini and I am a, uh, Gemini. Get out of town. And I really, I,

by the way, we'll always hype people up whether or not it benefits me but if it does now that I've got a stake in it I will really rock your world especially with this animation thing I think once you once you figure out how to animate something and then I can find a way to weasel my way into the success I just might try so good luck honestly it's kind of how the podcast started we were like let's's figure out how to podcast. And then that night at 3 a.m. I was like, let's record tomorrow. And you were like, fuck yeah, let's go.

But that's why I love us. You really do let my chaotic energy control a situation. But then it's like, I think I'm controlling the situation. Like I say, let's do it. No, I do, but it's true. And then you fucking nail it. No, but like it's like a Gemini twin it's a tag team it's a real tag team because i think you have some really chaotic opinions and some really chaotic ideas but maybe don't know how

to execute them and then i'll do it but then it's vice versa i'm like you need something on microsoft word you fucking hold on tight it's gonna be a great bumpy ride get out of here who needs powerpoint well i love our friendship christine remove a train a fucking photo i can remove a background make it transparent i really do i really do love that you let my um my irrationality take over like you just you ride with it but then i also ride with yours yes you do and you support me in. But then I also ride with yours. Yes, you do. And you support me in that.

And I feel like not everyone does. So thank you. I, if you didn't call me with a reckless idea and we didn't try our best to make it happen, I'd be offended. I'd be like, what do you mean you don't want to build a roller coaster at midnight? What do you, what do you mean you think you can

and won't try? I don't get it. I would say it's opposite day. Obviously, I do want to do that. Oh, gosh. No, I will always encourage your rabble rousing, your tomfoolery. Honestly, I deeply appreciate that. And it goes both ways. I will always support you and your rabble rousing as well yeah yeah yeah that's why we uh we belong that's why okay well you didn't ask for this uh i take it back i don't want any any more ideas out of you you don't want this story you don't want it it's bad i'm doing the girl scout murders today i've had these i've had these notes for months it you know what you're doing what you have to and their story needs to be heard that's that's

the thing and I've I've listened to a few YouTubers do it I've listened I've since we talked last aka like two weeks ago when we recorded the last episode I finally went and committed to like listening to other podcasts cover this, other YouTubers cover this. And I really wanted to make sure I did it justice and covered it as like respectfully as possible and as thoroughly as possible. So I hope I do it justice. But I, you're right. I think this story, I think the reason I keep it on the back burner all the time is like, I know I need to tell the story at some point. And so I'm finally getting the personal strength to do it. That being said, there were many months, probably years where I was not in please do not put yourself through this. If you don't, you can always come back if you want to. But if you are someone who feels particularly sensitive about violence against children, which I mean, I think a lot of us do, and you feel like you just can't cope with

this today, please feel free to move on. Is there also an essay trigger warning for you? Feel free to move on. Is there also an essay trigger warning for you? There is a brief one. There's no. Yes. Yes. To an extent.

Yes. There is a mention. OK. Actually, yeah, there are multiple mentions. Yeah, there is. There's there is definitely a warning. There's sexual assault. There's violence toward children.

And those are the main things. yeah good call and i know a lot of stories i covered do have sexual assault and violence toward children but this one for whatever reason um a lot of people myself included find particularly tough um it's a it's a special type of evil when children are involved. It is. It is. And it's it's I think the context of it is also so shocking that it's. And like I know I've covered violence against children before, but and so I always hate to compare the stories that I cover to each other. But there's something about this one that is so shocking because of the context of like a Girl Scout camp. Like it's just so... It's also multiple, multiple children. Multiple children.

It's really hard. It's a tough, it's tough to swallow. So if you are somebody who's like, nah, not feeling it, please by all means skip this episode. Also, if you were here to laugh, I hope you found it earlier in this episode, because I don't think we're making any side comments in this one. I mean, it's a very fascinating story.

So like, you know, don't get me wrong. It's a story that I think needs to be told. And I think it's a very famous true crime story for a reason. And you'll see the many reasons why it's very layered um so if you are willing to listen like don't worry it's going to be you know an interesting episode but don't feel like you have to stick around um if you're not comfortable okay so today's episode is about the oklah Scout murders. Girl Scouts, be prepared. Yeah, that's as far that's that's pretty much the only imagery I have because I don't know any other details other than Girl Scouts are involved in probably, you know, not all of them are making it out at the end of the story. So that's, that's all I know. Just before we get into the really deep, dark stuff, do you have any, you don't have any

experience with Girl Scouts? I mean, obviously I know that like, this is not something you would want to. I always wanted to be in the Boy Scouts. Right. Um, I don't know. No, I've always, um, I've never, I've never been in it, but I've always wanted to be one of those people who went to like, as an adult, I would love to go to like a survival camp. Oh God. Oh God.

Em, you literally are outspoken about hating hiking and you want to go to a survival camp? I know. I know how little sense that makes. You literally told me once you would not survive without air conditioning for more than six hours. Because I've never been to survival camp probably um no like i i know how backwards it is but i think you couldn't even be under my roof without central air without 100 100 lying on the floor and complaining loudly loudly um i think it's my honestly you know it would give me the exact same effect though um i really i think it's just because i love a good fun fact and i would like to be

useful in a crisis and that's the only reason but i wouldn't want to experience it to have to learn it which is so let's learn it in like an indoor controlled setting like like like the worst case scenario books i fucking love those i love those books so honestly if someone could just get me like the big compilation version of that like the comprehensive guide that's probably all i need and then it's survival on the toilet and then read it in the woods if i need to survive i'll just bring my book with me you can just intubate someone with a pen and it'll be great oh see those are truly like if someone was choking in front of me they would die like i that would be a horrible thing okay i mean

learning the heimlich is like not i would like to go to useful survival camp like it's like um i don't know what the right word is but more like practical survival camp like i would love to do like a cpr class a heimlich class a i mean, you can very much do that, my friend. Like I took a CPR class because I had a baby and I was like, I want to know how to do infant CPR. I know I can. I can also go to survival camp. I just refuse to. Yeah, but survival camp seems like a big step up. Like you can take a Red Cross thing in like a couple hours and you're done. I feel like, and honestly, I recommend it because it is nice to know like, Hey, in worst case scenario that you hope never happens. I really would like to do that. I really just want to know how to get myself out of any sticky situation, including the

extreme ones. But then again, if I took like one class and then never attained it in 10 years from now, like I wouldn't know how to do it anyway. So I don't know. It's like one of those fun thoughts from like, wow, maybe if I were a Girl Scout or a Boy Scout that would have that would have stayed with me and then I feel a little regret but other than that honestly this might comfort you because I was briefly a Girl Scout or I guess it was more like a brownie oh you were brownie yeah and then I kind of got I wouldn't say kicked out, but I wasn't really welcome. Did you show them the picture of Criss Angel? They said, this is a class on Photoshop.

And I said, oh, step aside. Let me teach. Let me teach everyone. No, I went to kind of a school that wasn't the most welcoming of people with differences. And I still, you know, had a German accent. And like, I'm aware that that as a white child with a German accent, a Western European accent, that doesn't make me that, you know, different from a lot of other people who have to face like bullying and stuff in elementary school but there was something about my mom was divorced and she was the only parent in the girl scout group that was divorced and she got a lot of flack and people were very weird and like like to refer to her as the nanny it oh yeah there was a lot of weirdness um my Girl Scout troop. And my friend Selina and I, like we sold cookies one summer.

But we lived in an area that was where the riots took place, the Cincinnati riots back in the 90s. And there was like the curfew and everything. And so we would just, our parents would just kind of let us wander around the neighborhood and ring different apartments doorbells and try to sell cookies. And we definitely faced some things in that experience that maybe, maybe our parents should just wander around. Fair enough. Whatever. Okay. Point being, I did Girl Scouts briefly.

It was not a great experience. And I did not feel welcomed in it and i'm not saying that's the fault of the girl scouts i think that was more the fault of my school uh well also there was something there's something polarizing that just happened in the in the boy scouts or something either they were very pro lgbt or very not and i don't remember which one it was well i certainly don't want to make the call because i have no idea no i'm gonna google it because i remember there being like something about like a like a trans boy wanting to join the scouts or something boy see that's a thing

and we said a lot of the pledge of allegiance and even at age eight i felt weird about all that um lgbt advocates applaud Boy Scouts. This is as of 2017. I don't know what the new thing is. The ban on, I don't know what it is, but they have either, they have one of two opinions and I don't know which one it is.

So I don't know if I'm in favor or not of them currently. What a fun roulette game for us. Yeah. 50-50. But they, I did always want to at least like, I wanted to know the cool skills and i think i i like the idea of like being in like a club where like okay but you've always been one of those people who's really into being in like a group like a fraternity or like a i love that

stuff i always felt like i just did not fit into that and And I don't know why, but like anytime I tried to join like a club or like a group, I felt like the odd one out. Um, and again, that's probably a me thing. I don't know, but I just never quite fit into, um, the Girl Scouts. And I think, and I did go on a camping trip and it was very similar to the one I'm about to tell you. and it was very similar to the one I'm about to tell you um and I think maybe oh gosh um I haven't uh cried in many months and I'm I'm getting like already uh why what happened because I'm just thinking like I think I'm finally realizing like the reason that the story is so hard for me to tell is because one of the girls just was felt so she just had such a hard time like integrating into the group and like oh her mom was just wanted her to be you know social i mean

i'll tell you the story obviously but like i think that might be why it was just so hard for me to to swallow the story anyway this is not about me i sorry. I have some fun facts before we tell the story, though. Good. I really appreciate you asking and making some fun banter before we get into the worst of it. But then you cried at the end, so that doesn't work. of it too is like um everybody in the u.s i i don't want to say everybody but i feel like a lot of people who grew up in the u.s have some association with either boy or girl scouts because they at least had a friend who was in it someone yeah or knew of it or have an opinion of it and so i feel like it's a very it hits home for a lot of people. Yeah. So I have some fun facts about these cookies. Oh, oh. See, when you asked if I was involved at all in the Scouts, I forgot to mention I'm very involved

as an adult. I think we all knew that answer, though. Like nobody had a question about that answer for you. OK, before or after these fun facts, I would like to know your top three cookies. OK, so let's hear these fun facts. Caramel Delights, a.k.a. Samoas. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like the peanut butter ones. Are they peanut butter patties? I think they're called peanut butter patties.

Tagalongs. Tagalongs. Yeah, tagalongs. Tagalongs. And Thin Mints. Those are my three, too. But I think I have a minute. Oh. Oh, I meant no. Wow. Oh, oh. Those are my three too. But I think I have a minute. Oh.

Oh, I meant no. Wow. Oh, oh. I thought you meant, oh, I was just like you had a new opinion. But I think Peanut Butter's third for me and maybe Thin Mints are first. See, I think you and I have the exact, it's Thin Mints, Samoa. Yes. Tagalongs.

That's the order. Yeah. I'm trying to look up the newest because they have some new flavors recently. The lemon ones are pretty good. And I don't say that just because of lemon. But I do like the lemon cookies too. I was going to say that can't be right. I don't think I like them.

They're good. What was the one I just had? Oh, I like the shortbread with the chocolate on them. You know what? Oh, this was the one that was the chocolate on them. Ugh. They have a, you know what? Oh, this was the one that was disappointing because I obviously wanted to really like the, they have a s'mores one now, which like how on earth did it take until like 2020 to have a s'mores Girl Scout cookie? For a campfire?

Yeah. Yeah. But also it's kind of stinky. I never tried it. It's not that good. My brother and I did a Beach T. Sandy episode on Girl Scout cookie reviews. That was an episode. The way that y'all can just pull out any goddamn topic.

Because people will complain about everything on the internet. There is one that I'd like to try called the Adventure Foles, which is brownie and caramel. Okay. I'm not a huge caramel, but that sounds good. But but no we have the same top three nice to know honestly that's adorable it is now i know what to get you when uh the season hits yay although we would honestly we just have to get like triple what we normally order because you're gonna get mad if i eat no by the way no pun, but they delivered during COVID. They literally started a delivery service during COVID.

So smart. They have an app. It's a whole thing. Oh, my God. I remember thinking like, oh, man, I have to go leave my house for Girl Scout cookies. And then during COVID, they went, we beg to differ. We're the fucking Girl Scouts. We are women in STEM, and we are going to deliver this

technologically to you honestly you drinking out of a color-changing cup while you say that is the most powerful thing i've ever seen i am a woman in stem said every girl scout in 2020 says the boy scout m schultz that's me well if there was a brownie version of a Boy Scout, I'd like, what's that, a cookie? I'd like that. Honestly? A blondie? Ooh. I don't know. We'll shop it.

We'll shop it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's get into the fun facts. Okay. The fun facts. Yes.

According to a website called Best Life Online, the Girl Scouts have been selling cookies for over 100 years, with the first cookie sale held in 1917 in muskogee oklahoma which you happen to go ahead i was just gonna say it makes it all so sad because the story takes place in oklahoma so it's like oh clearly this is like a home base for the girl never mind i was gonna say do you know if any of the cookies they sell today are originals from the 1917 like lineup that's an excellent question uh i actually don't know i wonder maybe those tree foils they seem like an old person those seem like the grandma cookies yeah uh so with the girl scouts selling nearly 200 million boxes of cookies each season to me alone to m schultz oh yeah sorry did i not clarify that's only burbank california yeah this makes them approximately 800 million dollars making it the largest girl-run business

on the planet honestly girl boss fucking get it girls i love I love that. Power team. Power team. This year, the LA Times released an elaborate graph of how they would rank the cookies with the X-axis being worst taste to better taste and the Y-axis being worst frozen to better frozen. Oh, well, you know Thin Mints was at the top of that one. Thin Mints had to be number one, right? I think so. So here are the three top cookies based on sales. Do you want to take your quick gander? I know Thin Mint has to be one, right? Maybe you should just say exactly what you said earlier. Is it our top three Thin Mints Samoa Tagalongs? Correct. Yep. Okay. So we're basic bitches. Caramel Delights is what I always called them.

Yep. We're basic bitches. We go to Starbs and we eat our three top favorite Girl Scout cookies. You know what? They found a recipe. They found a formula that worked. And why on earth would you mess with it when it's not broken? Good point.

And they still keep those fucking trefoils around i i wonder how much money collectively all of the other cookies make and if it's just worth it to never sell them again like that's a good point if they just like cancel those yeah just like here are three because the others combined make five bucks but you know there's got to be like some people who order like 40 boxes of like butterscotch delight or whatever the fuck. You know it's so actually I have a really I guess I was anti Girl Scout at one point because I remember in like seventh grade there was clearly a Girl Scout at our school who she would bring her like duffel bag of Girl Scout cookies to school with her so she could then sell them at like

the grocery store after school or something oh right and she would leave she would literally just leave her duffel bag of cookies in the public bathroom oh and i gotta be honest i definitely ate like four but i would go to the bathroom wait wait wait what you just took them i was 12 and um mean i don't know i don't know why were you anti-girl scout if you were just taking them out of the bathroom that seems like you'd be pro-girl scout well i was i was anti-girl scout that i was helping a girl scout not make her money back because i would ask to go to the bathroom like five times every class i would just sneak one to be fair i never opened a box but there was clearly someone else had either had beat me to it and someone else

had seen a like i'm not kidding it was like 30 boxes of thin mints and one of them was already open y'all just had this unspoken agreement like i'll open it if someone else helps me eat someone else i was i was i had a limit to my nastiness and i was like i'm not gonna open a box like that's mean like these were closed they're not my box to open but i definitely i definitely thought the open box was mine to eat and so i was like i'm just gonna have two and then i would come back 10 minutes later just have two and come back there just have two two. I would have a hard time saying no if they were already open. It's not like she can sell those, right? Right.

That's what I thought. So anyway, I'm kind of it's weird how I've kind of turned the tides and now I'm on your side. I'm just saying it was already open. Other people. It was funny because there was clearly other people who had the same mindset as me because there would be times where I would leave my class to go to the bathroom and like steal one of them and a whole sleeve was missing so like some and not because of me someone else

was clearly also stealing the cookies so um that's my closest experience to being in the girl scouts was going through a girl scouts bag and robbing her. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I feel like... I wasn't in the wrong. I know. I feel like I would have been the other person.

I feel like somewhere in the United States while you were doing that, I was pulling some similar bullshit. And I don't think that I have any room to judge you. You know, and if you did judge me, honestly, it was over half my life ago. I cannot speak for who that person was. I cannot speak for them. But also, I don't blame them. If my kid, if I got a call from the principal and found out that that's what my kid was doing, I can't act like I'd punish them.

I'd be like, don't do that. But also, I don't want to find out what you're doing. But also, like, bring me some. If you're going to fucking go to the bathroom and take cookies, bring a sleeve home. Have you ever heard of the word accomplice? Because I would like to be that. Have you ever heard of the word blackmail? Because if you don't bring me a sleeve, I might call the principal.

And I might say, you know what? That's exactly right. My kids stole all of them. But that doesn't have to be the phone call I make if some cookies show up for me you know ding ding ding okay you and I are gonna be you and I are gonna raise hellions I'm just gonna say it right now you're already doing it she's gonna leave the pack I know I don't even know what to do about it it's too late if you ever find her on Microsoft Paint drawing a picture of her with Criss Angel you're gonna have to have a weird talk with her and be like we are too similar do about it it's too late if you ever find her on microsoft paint drawing a picture of her with chris angel you're gonna have to have a weird talk with her and be like we are too similar please

oh god i'm so scared uh okay well while we were having this conversation i googled original girl scout cookies um of course you were right and the shortbread was the first cookie. Yeah. The box does not look very appetizing. And I have a fun fact for you here. During World War II, the Girl Scouts sold calendars in addition to cookies because of shortages of flour, sugar, and butter. Aw. In 1943, there were 48 cookies per box. By 1943, Girl Scouts also collected fat in cans to aid the war effort

and sold war bonds at no profit. Oh, wow. Look at them. They are just activists. They are. And then in the 1950s, three more cookie recipes were added. So the first thing that they sold was like just a biscuit. A biscuit, a simple sugar cookie recipe then they added shortbreads savannas which are okay so that's the one i like sorry i didn't mean the um tagalongs i didn't yeah i'm i'm deviating from tagalongs i like the savannas which are the peanut butter sandwich cookies oh i don't think i ever had those i really like those um or they're also called do-si-dos oh okay i i only knew them as do-si-dos i think do-si-dos is what we called them too and they added thin mints so thin mints were one of the earliest ones and they added

samoa's in the 70s okay anyway let me get back to my notes. Back to, hey, that was a great episode. Can we just stop here? I know. I'm like bullet number four. Can't we just end it? Ooh, okay. So on to the Girl Scouts.

So Girl Scouts themselves, this is interesting, alumni have included me, sort of. I don't know if I count. That is interesting. You're right. Stupid Gemini. Let me finish. Me. Okay.

Taylor Swift. Oh, okay. Why don't you just call Taylor up, you know? Mariah Carey. Hillary Clinton. Condoleezza Rice. Katie Couric. Robin Roberts. Dakota Fanning. Gwyneth Paltrow, Venus and Serena Williams, and 69% of female senators. Whoa. Right?

Wow, stardom young. That's the political campaign right there. Damn. Put them in the Girl Scouts. They'll be, just maybe president. Damn, damn, damn. Too bad none of those people have been presidents because they're all women. Yep.

Well, hey, you know what? You said it, not me, but I'll also say it. Because they weren't women. Because they weren't men. I'm just saying. I mean, odds are none of them were going to be president. Okay. So anyway, let's fucking get into the horrible, sad shit.

So anyway, let's fucking get into the horrible, sad shit. It was the summer of 1977, and Girl Scouts across the United States were ready for camp. They'd spent the year selling their Girl Scout cookies, collecting badges, but camp was the main event of the year. So this story takes us to a place called Locust Grove, Oklahoma, which was the base of Camp Scott, which was originally called Camp Modelco. And this Girl Scout camp originally opened on August 11th, 1928. It was based 50 miles from Tulsa's Girl Scout headquarters, and it was amongst 410 acres of wooded area. Wow. It was a big, beautiful part of the Oklahoma wilderness. And as camp counselor Michelle Hoffman would describe, quote, my first year at Camp Scott,

I remember going, whoa, because it is so dark, dark, dark in those woods at night. So we are out in the middle of fucking nowhere as part of the story. So this year, the camp was looking to house 140 campers and 30 staff. On entering the camp, you followed what was called the cookie trail, which led you to 11 various camping units, which all had Native American themed names or names based on Native American tribes each unit had seven tents for three to four campers to stay in along with one counselor's tent and the tents I just want to describe they're sort of like uh a big tent on a wooden platform where there are cots inside i've been in those yeah

yeah same here like when i did almost like a cabin tent yeah exactly exactly like there's enough room for like a bed in it yeah and your stuff um and when i did my one girl scouts camping trip uh we stayed in these exact tents is it like a parent trap situation and their their their camp spaces do you remember that yeah in they're basically in like a little cabin with like a few cots yes exactly yeah yeah it is just like parent trap my favorite movie of all time um yeah it is basically just like the parent trap setup where there are like four girls in one tent slash it's it's a tent but it's like a big yeah like a big tent with cots yeah yeah yeah so we are specifically in camp i was gonna say kiowa but i but I watched a docuseries where they called it Kiowa. So I'm going to pronounce it Kiowa.

Camp Kiowa, which was home to 27 Girl Scouts in 1977. And the way that Camp Kiowa was set out is that there were a total of eight tents, including one of the counselors, and they were shaped in a sort of crescent moon formation. There was also a latrine as well as a campfire pit nearby. And according to the website, abandoned edoc camp, Scott boasted an exciting range of activities, including quote, swimming,

CPR training, and you might want to step up and join archery, pathfinding, bridge building, bird study, insect life, and leadership skills those all sound lovely honestly that is not what i had in girl scouts but i feel like this i would have fucking loved like that just feels like what my summer camp was yes like real skills yeah i just it's

i love archery that was always my favorite in summer camp. Oh, I never went to summer camp. Oh, I mean, in Brownies where they let you shoot arrows. I don't know. Well, I remember we talked a lot. Someone quoted me on Twitter. They were like, because you were like, oh, I rode horses. And then I said, I had a hose.

What? You said something, you were talking about camp and you're like, oh, I had to ride horses in the summer. And I was like, I had a hose what you said something you were talking about camp and you're like uh i had to ride horses in the summer and i was like i had a garden hose that was i i don't remember the conversation but it sounds right and i did have to ride horses and it was not fun um but i was like oh i had a garden hose and you were like well that sounds fun and i was like honestly it fucking was it was i guarantee it was so much more fun than having to learn how to clean horses hooves and stuff yeah i'm not into that uh getting kicked into a stall a stable it was like like a movie i got like like rip breaking kicks into a wall because i didn't

know what i was doing i feel like we are the parent trap kids where it's like we just trade lives and we're like what the fuck is going on you could happily take my spot there you're like you play with this hose all day and i'm like that's i literally drink from it as an only child i've played with worse things for longer so like i'm okay i'm fine with it i could make a i could make a hose work oh boy okay so those were the fun classes and courses they had to take um super fucking cool i mean just bird study bridge building pathfinding like if this is what girls that is it's survival camp that's what i consider survival camp i never thought i would ever put my child into girl Scouts because of the shitty experience I had. But if this is what it is, like, that's fucking great.

I would love for my kid to learn these skills. Oh, yeah. Anyway. So this is what the camp was made of. The cost for the full 10-day stay at the time was $9. Oh, sign me up. Right. And nowadays nowadays i think that's closer to like 70 or 80 dollars but still for 10 days of this full camp sleepaway camp yeah that's amazing crazy affordable so it was two weeks uh and this was gonna be an awesome time. They've been doing this for years.

Girl Scouts have been around for decades. But unfortunately, Camp of Summer 1977 would come to an abrupt end when, on the first official morning, after the first night of camp, Monday, June 13th, one of the camp counselors, 18-year-old Carla Wilhite, headed to the staff house showers at 6 a.m. And on her way, as she passed the edge of camp on the border of the woods, she spotted three sleeping bags lying beneath a tree. Obviously, she spotted these and thought, they're out of place. I should put them back. And as she got closer, she spotted a young girl lying on top of one of the sleeping bags. And unfortunately, the girl was carla spotted was 10 year old doris denise milner known as denise she was motionless she had her hands tied behind her back and she could not be woken up wow obviously terrified and alarmed the counselor ran to collect the other counselors and like listen to this 18 year old susan and 20 year old d they're basically kids

themselves yes and i've heard um some other people covering the story talk about like oh they didn't you know do a good job and i'm like they're children in the 70s they have no fucking clue yeah a 20 year old is not prepared they're prepared to macrame they're not prepared to know what to do with a dead body you know i wouldn't know what to i just hit 30 i wouldn't know what to do exactly exactly call the police i wouldn't know what to do i know nothing about traumatizing yeah and so i have a hard time like giving them any sort of flack because they're basically kids themselves. And so 18 year old Susan and 20 year old D, they do a head count and they get the camp director and camp nurse who were a short drive away. was Denise's tent and she was the one who was found dead on her sleeping bag. This was the first tent that counselor D checked out. And just to clarify this, because this does get a little confusing when you look it up on Reddit or any of the kind of graphics where

people draw out the diagram, the camp called this tent, Denise's tent, tent number seven, but the police called it tent number eight because they were including the counselor's tent as tent number one. Oh, okay. So they were just counting them differently. Okay. But for the purposes of this episode, we're going to go by police records because that's just how everything was notated and called Denise's tent, tent number eight. Okay. just how everything was notated and called Denise's tent, tent number eight.

Okay. So tent number eight was the closest to the bathrooms and the kitchen, but it was also the furthest from the camp counselor tent. Okay. Basically was on the other side of this crescent moon situation. It was 86 yards or 79 meters away from the counselors. And because of the layout of the camp, the counselors had an obstructed view of tent number eight. So they were basically the most removed from any sort of like adult or chaperone figure. Sure.

They're kind of on their own, doing whatever they want and kind of maybe getting away with it. The most distant tent. doing whatever they want and kind of maybe getting away with it the most distant tent um so entering tent number eight counselor d was immediately confronted by the fact that the other two girls who were supposed to be in the tent with denise were blood the camp director barbara day and the camp nurse arrived pretty quickly at the crime scene and pronounced denise as dead and it was camp director barbara's husband richard who first thought to check the other two sleeping bags that were laying underneath Denise's body. Oh, okay. Was there something in there?

Sure enough, the two other girls from tent number eight, eight-year-old Lori Farmer and nine-year-old Michelle Gouzet, were also found dead in their sleeping bags underneath. So they were all stacked. Yep. Oof. Denise's body. Okay.

You're doing great. I'm sorry I'm even putting you through this. No, I'm just bracing myself is all. Yeah. So counselor Carla Wilhite said that denise laurie and michelle were three of the quietest kids at the camp oh i know i think i think like going off my weird reaction earlier and then like this exact reaction you just had is probably why this was so hard for me because i feel like it seems so pure and these are the ones i would

have been like oh we're like the weird like we're like the odd ones out or like the you know they were the quietest kids in the camp but their tent was quote loud and lively before they had gone to sleep because they had all just connected with each other oh oh that's so so so pitiful m it gets so much worse okay so so far there's it's hard to believe so far there's three dead bodies we know of yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so laurie who was eight years old uh was the youngest Girl Scout in the whole camp she was very very thrilled about going to camp and about the prospect of meeting new friends she had been born June 18th 1968 in Little Rock Arkansas and her family had moved relatively recently from Little Rock to Tulsa, Oklahoma.

And according to the podcast Criminal Discourse, Lori, who was the eldest daughter of Charles and Sherry Farmer, had four younger siblings and was known to be a bright, young, mature girl who excelled in school and even skipped second grade. She had just finished her fourth grade year at Jenks Elementary School. She was a little unsure about attending Girl Scout camp that year, so it was between this and a camp sponsored by the YMCA. But in the end, Lori's mom, Sherry, this is tough, made the decision for her. Wow, the guilt. And Sherry said she would later regret this decision for the rest of her life oh i can't even imagine and i'll be honest that's kind of the running theme of this entire story which is also what makes it so hard so michelle heather guzay born july 22nd 1967 in miami oklahoma

had already been to camp scott the year before and was known to be athletic, active, and was enthralled by outdoor pursuits, according to a Medium article by Michael East. So while Lori and Denise were both from Tulsa, Michelle hailed from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. And this is somewhat relevant because in, I think it was may of this year um so like last month as we record this a docu-series came out on hulu um called keeper of the ashes and it's a four-part series about the oklahoma girl scout murders but it's featuring kristin chenoweth. What? Because she's from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. So wild. And she was supposed to go on this. Oh, I see. I see. I see. I connect now. And so the whole show is she kind of is like the entry point. Like the show's not I thought it was pretty good.

It doesn't revolve around her the whole time, but it, it, she's just a narrator of, yeah, it almost like uses her exactly as like an entry point, um, in that she went to school with Michelle Guze in broken arrow and said like, you know, I didn't know her well, but like I passed her in the halls and this is the, and she was supposed to go on this trip, but she was sick and her mom didn't let her go.

And so it is kind of like the entry point into this um docu-series and i will say uh a lot of what i learned from this series is going to be covered in the part two episode but uh the docu-series itself was really really beneficial in answering a lot of questions that i had about like we haven't even gotten there yet but there are a lot of racial issues and racial undertones that happen um in the trial and there's just a lot of layers that get a little clarity um in this docuseries so sure we'll get there but okay well cheers to kristen chenoweth's documentary i know and i feel like i was uh almost uh glad that i waited this long to cover

the story because this just came out last month so i was able to like wow add some a little bit of uh i don't know insight so according to uh the mile podcast, which I also listened to their coverage of this, Michelle liked to play soccer. She enjoyed reading and loved to spend her time with her older brother, Mike. She also deeply cared about her house plants. Aww. And she told her mom before leaving that she had to promise to take care of them, especially her favorite, the African violets. I mean, God. That's heartbreaking. to promise to take care of them especially her favorite the african violets i mean god breaking as for denise milner she was born february 5th 1967 and lived in tulsa oklahoma with her parents betty and walter and younger sister kathleen so denise was said to be the shyest of the girls

intent number eight and she was notably one of the only black girls at camp scott as well that year and they interview betty pretty extensively in the uh keeper of the ashes uh docu-series and so it's it's pretty cool to hear her take but it's also interesting because the camp counselor michelle who i'm going to talk about uh is also interviewed firsthand and talks about finding the bodies and and her relationship with denise and it just adds a lot of uh context to the whole story. Extra heaviness to an already heavy situation. It makes it extra bad, okay? It makes it extra hard to watch. It makes you cringe and cry even more.

It makes it more emotional, exactly. So Denise's family was from Tulsa, and her father was one of the police officers there. She was a straight-A student, and she had recently been accepted to Carver Middle School, which was a prestigious school for exceptional students. And she had spent the year in the run-up to camp selling enough Girl Scout cookies to afford her trip to camp. So sad.

And with camp now approaching, Denise started to get really, really nervous about going. And she was apparently very excited, but she was really scared about being without her mom and sister for two weeks. And this was only heightened when the girls that she actually knew who were going to camp pulled out of the trip. And she basically told her mother, like, I don't want to go anymore. My friends aren't going. I'm scared. I don't want to go. However, her mother, Betty, pushed her to go. She wanted to develop her independence. And she said, I mean, I'll read you the quote. She said, all you have to do is call and we'll come and get you. Oh, my God.

Wow. So this is like, it's not even like this horrible thing happened, but I just feel like a whole camp of mothers. It's horrible. The guilt. Yeah. Already you've told two different stories of moms being like, no, no, no, this will be good for you. And of course it would, you know, like even nowadays. Yeah, they didn't do anything wrong.

No, exactly. nowadays yeah they didn't do anything wrong no exactly it's like it's just an added an added guilt later of i had i not forced them or i'm sure that's what their brain is telling them had i not made them do it then you know like i'm responsible for this it's yeah there must be a lot of yeah there's a lot of guilt yeah the spiraling so her mother betty pushed her to go she wanted her to develop her independence and eventually denise was convinced uh denise was exhibiting signs of being incredibly homesick on the bus leaving girl scout headquarters to camp scott and so 15 year old camp counselor michelle hoffman who is the one i mentioned who was actually interviewed on this docu-series, she noticed how nervous Denise was and she stayed with her, provided her comfort, told her, like, this is going to be great. We're going to have the best time.

I will help you if you want to call your family at any point. She even brought Denise the good news that she would be sleeping in tent number eight because it was closest to the bathroom. So it was like the luckiest tent to be in. I mean, it's just getting worse. I don't know what you want me to do. It's out of a horror movie. It just gets worse and fucking worse. So this is where it gets a little spooky.

Chillingly, when Denise had left for camp her mom betty had a weird conversation with her other daughter kathleen on the day denise left five-year-old kathleen turned to her mom betty and asked what happens when people die oh forget it as betty was responding mid-conversation kathleen said to her mom mama tomorrow everyone is going to die and the following day her older sister and the two other girls were brutally murdered oh my god and they still can't explain what the hell that was all about whoa big old chills right also imagine the guilt of that girl growing up and realizing she was right she was just like predicting something yeah on the day before the bodies were found which was

the first day of camp on sunday june 12th all 130 campers arrived at their respective camps between 3 30 and 4 p.m. and were shown to their tents. This is when Denise, Michelle, and Lori all met each other for the first time and they seemed to really get along. The afternoon consisted of a pretty admin heavy itinerary. There was a storm moving in and so they moved everything into the dining hall and this is where they spoke about camp rules, their schedules for the week. They even had sing-alongs. It was all indoors as they, you know, got ready for the evening.

And eventually everybody returned to their tents for bed. The tent number eight group was still wide awake and seemingly quite bored. And so they all wrote letters home to their parents. Of course I have those letters. Okay. And I'm going to read them to you. Okay, let me readjust and get ready. So this is the letter that Michelle wrote to her Aunt Karen.

Dear Aunt Karen, how are you? I am fine. I am writing from camp. We can't go outside because it is storming. Me and my tent mates are in the last tent in our unit. My tent mates are Denise Milner and Lori Farmer. My room is in shades of purple. Love, Michelle. Here's the next one. Lori wrote, Dear Mom and Dad and Misty and Joe and Chad and Kathy, we're just getting ready to go to bed. It's 745. We're at the beginning of a storm and having a lot of fun. I've met two new friends, Michelle Gouzet and Denise Milner. I'm sharing a tent with them. It started raining on the way back from dinner. We're sleeping on cots.

I couldn't wait to write. We are all writing letters now because there's hardly anything else to do. With love, Lori. And this is Denise's letter, and this is where I had kind of a breakdown. It's very hard. Just going to read it. Denise wrote, Dear Mom, I don't like camp. It's awful. The first day it rained. I have three new friends named Linda, Lori, Michelle. Michelle and Lori are my roommates. Mom, I don't want to stay at camp for two weeks. I want to come home and see kathy and everybody

your loving child denise milner that's rough that's really fucking brutal and so this is basically the last piece of communication that her mother has from her it's her already saying i don't want to be here yeah yeah Yeah. So Lori's letter was useful in particular in placing what time the girls were heading to bed because she said at 745 we're getting ready for bed. So after writing their letters, the three girls went to sleep and the rain continued. The storm continued. And at 10 p.m., camp counselor D. Elder did a final check on each tent. and at 10 p.m., camp counselor Dee Elder did a final check on each tent. At 11.30, Carla Wilhite went to quiet one of the tents, not number eight, a different tent,

who were still up making a lot of noise. Carla also got up at midnight because the girls in tent number two were all going to the bathroom together and being really noisy, and they were brought back to their tent and told to be quiet. Roughly an hour later, at 1.30 a.m., the girls from tent number four were talked to by Carla for not settling down and for being too rowdy. And Carla doesn't remember much happening from tent eight at this point, but she did clock a strange sound coming from behind the tents, which she described as being a low guttural sound but she was not sure whether it was animal or human oh yeah again i know the theme today is guilt but imagine thinking

like oh if only i checked you know yeah so carla shown her flashlight in the direction of the noise and the noise stopped. And I'm realizing I said Michelle was, for some reason I said Michelle was interviewed in the series. I think I met Carla. I think I got them. Okay. I think I got their names mixed up because Carla was saying she checked like multiple times and she would shine her flashlight over and it would stop. And so she couldn't pinpoint it. And then as she walked back to her own tent, it would start up again.

And so she was sort of like trying to pinpoint where the noise was coming from. It was storming. She couldn't figure out where this was coming from. And so eventually she returned to her tent to sleep. And she did say in the series, like, there is a lot of guilt. Like, what if I had walked over and really checked and looked more extensively, you know? And so she does carry a lot of guilt for that. But she continued to hear the noise intermittently.

So around 3 a.m., two other girls reported being woken up by noises. 3 a.m two other girls uh reported being woken up by noises one girl claims that around this time she heard the sound of a girl screaming uh which sounded like it was coming from tent number eight and later another girl uh reported that camped with laurie before thought she recognized laurie's screaming um and she kind of wasn't phased at the time because she apparently laurie was known to wake up in the middle of the night having nightmares so like the mama was probably a normal sound of her like so the mama was a different was a different thing but the um the girl so there was another girl who heard what she thought was uh laurie and she recognized laurie screaming and she later reported she thought the voice came from one of her nightmares no sorry sorry sorry i'm interrupting you and you

can literally just explain it no no no i'll just say the bullet again so um another girl who had camped with lori before thought she heard lori screaming um at one point during the night and she wasn't too phased by this at the time uh because she had camped with lori before and she knew that lurie was prone to waking up um in the middle of the night due to her nightmares so when she heard laurie's voice screaming in the middle of the night she just kind of went back to sleep and thought oh she's probably just having okay another nightmare gotcha so the last thing anyone would remember from that night was that the girls in tent number seven were woken in the night by a flashlight shining into the tent, which they believed was held by a man.

Yeah. As the light was shining in their faces, they were unable to recognize who it was. All they could say was that it was only a mere couple of seconds until the tent flap was closed again and it sounded like the visitor moved on to tent number eight oh i wonder why he moved on yeah it's unclear i wonder if it's because they woke up maybe maybe i was trying to think that's they don't have a counselor in there i was was trying to think. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. Another camp counselor reported seeing multiple lights moving towards Camp Kiowa, but the light soon disappeared, so the counselor went back to sleep.

So it was 6 a.m. when Carla would discover the bodies of the girls while she was on her way to the showers and by 7 30 a.m this is a little sketch the camp had called their lawyers before they ever called the police oh that is a little sketch it's not a good look i guess i get it if like i were in charge of a camp and something happened i'd be like no no no you want the police. You want to figure out what happened, right? Like, you never call your lawyer to protect yourself before you... If three kids are dead, I feel like my first thought would never be, let me call my lawyer. I'm assuming it happened at the same time, like two different people were on two different phones. Or is this like they called the lawyers and then waited and then called the police the camp called the lawyers before then calling the police and before calling the police not like okay definitely before calling

the police yes okay in my mind i was like you call the police you call the lawyers because obviously we're gonna need that when the police get here. No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Well, then, yeah, that is a little sketch. And so local law enforcement eventually turned up at the crime scene. And by 8 a.m., Sheriff Glenn Pete Weaver ended up calling the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, the OSBI. And at 10 a.m., all of the Girl Scouts at Camp Scott were evacuated from the premises. No one told the Girl Scouts why. And this is where it gets also really hard is because they didn't exactly tell the parents what was going on either. They just told them, you have to pick up your

children, but also some of your children are not coming home. Interesting. I wonder if they had a protocol that they were told to follow if something like this ever happened. I don't think so. And not to just be like that 21st century person, but like it was the 70s. Nothing like this had ever happened. I don't think it was even a thought. And most of these people you said were in their 20s or was this like maybe there was someone higher up who was older? The staff? Yeah, they were like 18 to 20. I mean, I don't really blame them then if they were like, I guess we tell the parents to come get their kids. Yeah, there was just no way to know what to do, I think. There was just like no manual, you know.

I think there was just like no manual you know so they basically had these charter buses that facilitated all the girls back to headquarters in Tulsa and there was a girl named Angela who okay basically all the buses showed up the parents were there to pick them up and all the parents knew was that some of the kids had died picked them up and all the parents knew was that some of the kids had died and so they don't know if their fucking kid is on this bus like they don't know and so they did a roll call like they called the names and the kids who got off the bus their parents were like thank god oh my god but some parents just waited for their kids names to be called oh my gosh just the thought is horrifying every part of this is a different no I know it's like a nightmare on a nightmare on a nightmare it just gets worse and so there was a girl named Angela who was actually

originally supposed to stay in tent number eight and she was moved last minute and so her parents later revealed that all parents that day were told three of the girls at camp scott had been killed oh my god and they didn't say who and so as the bus pulled up to the girl scouts headquarters where the parents were waiting the way they were finding out if their daughter was alive was whether their name was called and so counselors were counselors were going through the list one by one and the Girl Scout would exit. But Angela had misplaced something on the bus and didn't hear her name the first two times. Oh, my God. And so only on the third time she heard her name being called and when she exited the bus she saw her mother collapsed on the floor crying thinking she was one of the parents who had lost a child but three other parents there

had lost children they just hadn't found out yet i mean it's just horrific i don't even know i don't even know what to say i don't i don't know what i know i know there's nothing even you know and also like does that like i can't imagine waiting that long but then also like nearing the end of the list and being like why hasn't my kid's name been called yep or like everyone goes home and it's just the three of you standing there now just waiting yeah just waiting you just look at each other and be like well one two three like horrifying is it us so obviously the families of laurie denise and michelle were there and they ended up waiting it out their daughter's name wasn't called and they were informed at the end of this whole fucking charade that their daughters were the ones who had been killed so according to investigators from the oklahoma state bureau of investigation it was suspected

that the killer had entered the tent from the back and it was discovered that laurie and michelle were the first to be murdered they were killed by blunt force trauma to the head and unfortunately their bodies also demonstrated signs of sexual assault uh near the body's duct tape nylon rope and a red flashlight were found um according do we do we know what the blunt force trauma was from like what the object was i don't think so it doesn't matter but just wondering no that's a great question i don't think so i'll look it up before part two um because that's a really good question i'm not sure um so they found this flashlight uh and according to strange outdoors the gag on denise was pre-sewn

which means like someone had planned this in advance and had sewn a gag specifically for this crime as aforementioned the tent was covered in blood there was evidence that whoever did this had attempted to clean the blood from the scene using bed sheets why i don't know that's a poor cleanup like right it seems like it's not gonna do anything why are you doing that uh they didn't do a good job because even a nine and a half uh a men's nine and a half footprint was found in blood on the tent floor so they didn't even do like remotely a good job of cleaning up after themselves they also found a pair of women's prescription eyeglasses which had apparently been stolen from a different tent oh ew campsite that's i don't know

why that's even creepier but it's like it like it's like he went through and checked every place it's horrible a lot more of that creepiness is coming for you oh god after conducting interviews with the camp scott staff it turned out that this was not the first time that year that events at camp scott were forced to end early because get this in april of 1977 which is two months before farmer gusay and milliner were murdered a training session had been held for the camp counselors at Camp Scott. And the weekend was forced to end early after 15-year-old camp counselor Michelle Hoffman returned to her cabin and discovered it had been broken into and was absolutely ransacked. Okay, so get this. I said 18 to 20 years old. This camp counselor was 15. Oh my God. Like little.

I can't even imagine the stress of something happening in front of me at 15. And now it's my job. Yeah. You're responsible for these children. I mean, yikes. You are a child. You are a child.

What are you talking? Oh my God. So she got back to her cabin, realized it had been completely ransacked. Her suitcases had been thrown outside and somebody had been through her and her roommate's bags and even violating so violating and even more menacingly a note was found in a box of donuts that she had brought for the rest of the team and the note someone had eaten the donuts and the note uh had said we are on a mission to kill three girls in tent one what yeah and this is like two months before the murders wait can you read it again we are on a mission to kill three girls in tent one

wow so full and fully intentional well also scribbled all over one of the notebooks was the word kill. And supposedly the rest of the letter referenced something about Martians. And so they kind of thought it was like a prank. And they also found an effigy of a man hanging by its neck from a tree nearby. Oh, my God. And some people said said which this seems like it can't be true but i guess this is what some people said that uh a couple other counselors admitted that this was like a practical joke that all of this was a prank a prank what

but like that feels like they're covering for somebody. It feels like to me that they said, oh, someone said that was a prank, but I don't know that there's any proof that anyone actually said they did it. Like, it seems like a rumor. I don't know what to do with that. There's no facts about that. There's no hard cold facts about what the fuck this was about. But all of that happened two months before the murders and it does not feel like this was a coincidence to me no it doesn't feel like a coincidence at all it killed three girls with a note like that and in the same tent number which

then makes it even creepier or at least near tent one right because they're technically 10-7 but it was really 10-8 it was 10-8 yeah so it was like the opposite side of the crescent maybe they got lost or maybe they maybe they thought one and eight were the same or maybe they went to tent one and like the like they didn't look like i think the council wanted to hurt in tent. So maybe they were like, oh, well, let's just do the opposite and not have to deal with adults. Quote adults. Maybe. I don't know. I have no idea. For them to have a note like that shows a full intention.

You could at least go to court claiming it. I just feel like it has to be related. Like some people say, oh, it was just a prank. And I'm like, what the fuck kind of prank? First of all, like, ha like haha like like not funny but also um yeah that's too on the nose it's too it's not that's that's something that's definitely something well either way after this was discovered the camp really didn't know what to do and so they did nothing to investigate the claims. And that is the end of part one. Tell me in part two, we get closure.

We don't, do we? Okay, don't tell me, Christine. Your eyes hurt me. Your one eye that's open hurts so never mind we get more information okay well it's better i guess but wow okay two-parter two-parter i like when you do two partners you told that very nicely for um a real struggle of a story well i i was gonna come prepared with kind of like a positive spin at the end but instead i forgot and i just opened our text and eva said wait omg christine i got kicked out of brownies too and so i said why so maybe we'll get an answer of why eva

got kicked out of brownies maybe we both got kicked out of brownies for similar reasons. I don't know. I can assure you if I was in brownies, I would have been kicked out. So, you know, my friend Alyssa, who I mentioned earlier about Chelsea Handler, she was my buddy for Girl Scouts and we were camping and we were in one of these tents with the cots and we had to go with a buddy to the bathroom because he had to walk obviously in the dark to go to the bathroom through the woods. Sure. And I had to pee and she fucking refused to get out of bed. Honestly, I don't blame Alyssa.

Also, yeah, you would have been a shitty partner, too. I know it. Well, also, I would hate someone to walk with me. I know I'm sure I'd be like scared in the woods and the journey. I would like a buddy. But someone standing there knowing how long I'd be taking in the bathroom is also nerve wracking as a child. Well, I had to walk there by myself and it's fucking scary to walk through the woods at like age eight. When Allison and I went to the desert, which we don't need to talk any further about that

experience don't um it was not that fun of a time but it was fun but not not also as safe as i'd like um there was an outhouse that we had to use for the bathroom and it was just a little too far away and the the journey was a little too dark for my liking um and i did not enjoy it so i feel like i got a buddy well also i thought like oh allison should be my buddy but it wasn't even an outhouse it was literally a toilet in the middle of okay but i also don't mean like a romantic buddy i mean like when you're seven a buddy who has who also pees and poops like you do i will tell you going going potty out in that in the outdoor toilet where like there weren't even walls or doors around you like if allison

looked out the window she would just see me on the toilet that was an adventure for my confidence the only similar thing i think we've experienced is when we went to Nashville and that there was a bathroom in the condo that the venue Zany's put us in. We're out of the toilet. You could watch people line up for our show. So we would all sit on the toilet. The window didn't have curtains or blinds. No. I was always scared that if I look a little too hard, people will feel me looking at them and they'll look back and see me before our show sitting on the toilet there was like a video m sent me and

eva of like just zooming out of the window at a line of people where it said like and that's why we drink live and like just sitting on the toilet i mean well now we can officially never stay there next time we go to zany's because everyone's gonna look at every window and like if you see a toilet that's the spot after that bathroom and like that haunted attic i climbed into at that place i don't think i want to stay there again and fair enough that was a you volunteered to go up into that attic by the way i fully was it was my fault 100 but i have had i don't know like zany's i don't remember my experience on stage because I was not paying attention. But I have the best memories of you and Eva both times we've stayed in that spot at Zany's when we went.

That house is so fun. Poor Eva got so sick, though. That was her Wisconsin. She probably had a terrible time. She was miserable. But Christine and I had a great time. We had a great time. Oh, Eva, speaking of Eva, text me. She said, I weirdly don't remember, but my mom was the troop leader and I think I just didn't fit in. But then she kept being the leader even after I left. So she got kicked out and then her mom was like, bye.

I like how even your mom was like, get out of my zone. You're in my zone. Sorry, you're not welcome here. It's like, anyway, now that my kid's gone, time to really party. Now that that weirdo is out of my zone you're in my zone sorry you're not welcome here it's like anyway now that my kid's gone time to really party now that that weirdo is out of here oh man well sorry to both of you i'm sure i would have been kicked out we can make up a reason if you feel like you would not have been kicked out and you would have fucking run the whole thing really yes i feel like i would have run the whole thing until they were like, okay, now's our big hiking day. And then I'd be like,

I'm going to cause such a crisis. Yeah, you would have. I will have to be removed. Honestly, you probably wouldn't even be removed. You probably would have just ended the whole program. You would have caused such a stir that they were like, we're shutting this thing down.

Just like you with your 24 hours or less. I would have become president of the Girl Scouts overnight. And then torn it down been like you know what i'm here to crush the system we're inside hiking who don't know her just pull it you were like i want to learn survival skills and they were like let's go on this hill and you were like burn it to the ground we're not doing this i just need to climb the ranks so i can set a match and watch it all ablaze watch it all go down with me oh my gosh anyway excited for excited as excited as i can be for part two at least there's some

answers a little bit yeah well good good storytelling there's also racism so you know yay a lot of speaking of the system and watching it burn. To look forward to, yeah. All right, well, I'll catch you on the flip-flop, cool cat. I'm going to go eat a burrito. Okay, and? That's why we drink.