And That's Why We Drink - E292 Hellhound Belly Rubs and Caveman Ghost Tchotchkes

Episode Date: September 11, 2022

It's episode 292 and we're being very brave about tummy aches! This week Em brings us the lore of U.S. Highway 66 and learns, yet again, about Christine the killer car. Then the not-so-Stephen-King-character Christine brings us the unsolved case of Angela Hammond. And does anyone have any caveman ghost stories? ...and that's why we drink!Don't forget to get your tickets to our final Here for the Boos shows! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

Hey, Boozers and Shakers, we are coming at you live. We're so excited for a fall tour. It'll be the final installment of our current Here for the Booze tour. The final, I think, 10 shows, something like that. Something like that. for the booze one last time this is it folks before we do our next big big big tour so hopefully you can make it to the next few cities if you want to you can check out uh our tickets at and that's why we drink.com slash live we can't wait to see you there some shows are already sold out so get okay i felt like i needed to start recording before we continued our conversation and yeah for some reason the words that i said got missed got jumbled in m's head and i'm thought that the baby was just sitting in the bathtub alone which like I was like well I wasn't against it on board I was not worth not for a second did I think that was like bad parenting I was like we all need a

break yeah yeah I said oh if you hear the baby's yelling it's because Blaze put her in the playpen because he had to use the bathroom and she doesn't like being left in the playpen by herself because she needs constant you know attention and validation um don't know where she gets that from couldn't be me uh and she got it from geo probably oh my god i mean actually i thought you were gonna make a joke but that's actually probably true um and so i said oh yeah so she's in playpen and blaze is in the bathroom and you were like oh so she's just sitting in the bathtub by herself. And I went, what is she? Did I say that? Anyway, no, I promise that's not what happened. I think I, since I'm just getting diagnosed everywhere these days, I feel like I also need

a brain doctor to check on me because I have, I have noticed, um, and my mom always had it nice to make fun of her. And now as I'm getting, as I'm becoming more and more like her as time goes on, I've noticed I'm now doing the same thing as her where words just completely get jumbled in my head. Yeah, you've told me that. I like make my own sentences and then I repeat them back to people and they're like, wait, what? How did you get there? And I'm like, isn't that what you just fucking said?

It's so, you've said that before. There was something we were talking about where it was like the gas station and you were like, yeah, I'm dropping my mail off at the gas station or something. Yeah. Like, it sounds like I'm fucking losing it. But my mom used to do it, too. She always would make what you're referring to is she would always mix up grocery store and gas station. That's what it was. Because they both in her mind are categorized as errands that start with gut.

And she just says whatever word vomits out first but i feel like and i feel like i say things like that but i more often am listening to somebody and the sentence like gets like moved around it's almost like it feels like like a dyslexia the way that people have described like numbers look all mixed up it's like that but words and i just hear completely different stories and it's auditory instead of visual that's interesting yeah because i feel like there have been a few times where you're like wait how did you get that and i'm like i swear to god that's what you just said i swear to god you just said that you put your baby in the bathtub and she just sat there alone and i by the way was fine with it but like that's what I thought you said you seemed perfectly chill um so anyway I just wanted to clarify that

that point um but anyway how are you why do you drink this weekend uh oh I have this shirt that I've worn in front of you probably a million and a half times. It's from Look Human, and it's the little cartoon house, and it says, in this house, we respect pronouns. That was my second time getting that shirt. The first time, I forget what happened, but something happened and it got ruined. I think there were like holes in it over time, so I had to get a second one. I have to now get a third one, because I had the get a second one. I have to now get a third one because I had the same candle wax malfunction. No, I was going to say at least it wasn't the wax situation all over again.

And it's not a, I can just like simply iron out the wax suggestion that I got the last time. It's not that kind of situation. It's caked in wax. What happened? i literally i picked up a candle and i was like man this smells really good you are so dope i picked it up just like i picked it up too quickly and literally splashed my own face it all hit me in the face and i looked in the mirror afterwards i literally just had like a face of wax and it was all dripping down my shirt earth was it worth the smell experience no no but i the the wax the candle had been burning for literally hours so it was just a thick pool of liquid wax and it just all hit me straight in my face extremely christine behavior of you i i was just so shocked i was like i can't believe i just threw fire at my own face.

You just hurled it into your own face. Yeah. And then I looked down at my shirt and I was like, there's no cleaning this. Like unless I was like Betty Crocker or something and from the fifties and only know how to mend all clothing. Yeah. You know, Betty Crocker, you know, her with her cakes and clothes. But other than that, I, I was just, I'd rather just throw the shirt away and start over. So that's where we are. Anyway, why do you drink? Oh, gosh. Your baby's in a bathtub by yourself.

Yeah, who knows? Who knows what's going on there? Blaze is in a playpen. Baby's in a bathtub. We're all confused over here. I swear to God that's what you said, Christy. I think you're gaslighting me. I might be.

Maybe it is. Maybe I'm gaslighting myself. I don't know. But I got to say, I'm a little freaked out because my Remicade is two weeks late now. And they're still not getting it taken care of. And I've been calling every single day. And you know I hate calling anybody. Yeah, it's got to be bad. and I've been calling every single day and you know I hate calling anybody yeah and the number of times I've made phone calls in the last six days should show them how urgent this is um and

since I'm traveling to visit you this week oh shit stuff together I'm like they gotta get me in by Thursday so I am um anyway I'm just kind of pan. I'm sitting here with my phone on in case they call me. Yeah. Are you feeling rumblings yet? Yes. Yes. And that's the best way to put it is like rumblings where I'm like, oh, I don't feel right. And I'm like, that's not a good sign.

Winds in the east. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I'm fine right now. I haven't had a drink since last Monday because I'm just I don't want to aggravate it. You know, I was going to say, do you know what your triggers are at least? I think probably alcohol and pork, but I don't eat meat anymore. So that's out the window. But basically, it's just when I don't get the infusion. So I'm like, hello, people.

I don't get the infusion so I'm like hello people what do if you don't want to talk about you don't have to but um for people who don't know the experience what are these rumblings feel like like is it pain or is it just anxiety of what's to come or like yeah it's just like stomach not stomach pain but it's like lower like it's almost like cramps but like tummy cramps I guess I am sort of like um I know what it means so it's not a good sign I found a sweatshirt I still want to get it for you I just can't find it online again there's a lot of versions of it on like redbubble and all that but there was one in particular I wanted to get you with like the right font and design and it says uh I'm sure you've seen it a million times but it was the first time i saw it and it said uh i'm having a tummy ache and i'm being really brave about it i've never seen that oh

really i assumed it was like your your crones algorithm would be like i would have thought but no i guess not there's a lot of versions on it but there was one that like had like a really like christine aesthetic to it that i wanted to get you. But I also really I also really want to get it for myself for general tummy aches. But then I felt like, oh, that's like appropriating your Crohn's experience. I think that's allowed. I think it's OK. You know, I feel like I might get myself one for when I'm actually having a true tummy ache and it'll be like a limited edition where like I'm only allowed to put it on. You should get one that says I have a tummy ache and I'm not being brave about it.

Certainly. That's totally true. Maybe I'll get like an ally shirt that says like my friend's having a tummy ache, but she's being really brave about it. Yeah, that's kind of where I stand now. So I'm just kind of like live in large. Hoping it gets figured out. But after we record this i have to call them again i'm sorry please squeeze me in tomorrow well i'm i'm trying to call uh to get

like a psychiatrist asap because with all the health stuff going on my anxiety as you know has been more through the roof than ever and so i'm getting particularly nervous about our shows because if my anxiety was bad then and this this is like a version i've never experienced i really don't know how to feel about anything so i'm trying to uh i'm already taking like i have a xanax prescription but it's not doing anything which is weird i always thought like xanax was like everyone could be affected by Xanax was like, everyone could be affected by Xanax in your system. Well, to be fair, you have an extremely low dose. You have the baby dose.

But I want to talk to someone about adding to my propranolol cocktail. So that's where we stand currently. Wow. Listen, we're full of health problems. And ever since my neighbor was like, I listened to your podcast and it really was all about cardiac issues instead of ghosts. I was like, well, that's what happens here now, I guess. This is our new normal. We should just do a spinoff podcast just about people's medical conditions. We're so sickly. At least, yeah, we could probably just cover most things on our own. I feel like everyone's cheering right now.

Like, yes, please move this to another podcast. Oh, hang on. My alarm just went off. This was my... Good morning, Em. Okay, okay, stop, stop, stop. What's happening? I'm one of those people that has an alarm for every minute.

And so I'm desperately trying to turn them off. Well, because I had a feeling I might fall asleep before we recorded. So are you going to say, oh, I need 15 more minutes to look at one more source and then sleep for another 15 minutes? I would have asked for 15 more minutes, but it would have been a direct I'm still sleeping, I think. Oh, okay. I think I would have been honest about it I'm still sleeping, I think. Oh, okay. I think I would have been honest about it. Who's to say? Who's to say?

All my alarms are off. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to tell you a story, Christine. I can't wait. And I am sorry about your tummy. That doesn't sound good. Oh, thank you. That's nice.

I'll call them later and hopefully they get me in and then we'll forget about it for another eight weeks um okay so this is uh a lore a lore a tall tale is what it is um and this is the story of u.s. Highway 66. Route 66? It's a chunk of Route 66, yeah. Ooh. Shall we just crack into it, I guess? Yeah, I'm going to get this nice little chocolate. Look at this. What is that?

It's chocolate? Oh, that's fun. It's a chocolate little tiger. Also, there's pieces of, sorry, my nail polish is so gnarly right now. Yeah, I went to a friend's baby shower yesterday, and they gave out these little treats. Who's your friend? Her name's Chelsea. Is this a new friend? Yeah, so, well, it's Renee's friends that I stole when Renee moved. Renee went to law school with Erica and Chelsea and they live in Cincinnati and then Renee moved

to Phoenix and I was like well I guess I'm taking these friends now yeah I'll take them over and I hope I'm allowed to say it but they're both pregnant and so I'm like bring bring on some friends for Leona you know does it feel nice to have like a little uh a one-up on them of like oh let me let me teach you the ways of motherhood now that I've I've got a couple months experience. It does because I'm like, well, one of them's pregnant with twins. So with that one, I'm sort of like, I don't have a leg up on you at all. Like, yeah, don't know what to tell you. Good luck. Yeah, but it is nice to be like finally i can be uh useful you know uh-huh uh-huh yeah i feel like one day when i have children i will come screaming to you but until then that

it's not a helpful source to me yet but one day you're like i put the baby in the bathtub now what do i do but you said it was okay i put allison in the playpen we're good right um okay so here is my story of highway 66 so it starts in 1926 and this part of the highway was built it's 193 miles long and just this chunk that i'm talking about i think okay uh it's 193 miles long from utah to new mexico uh and also as you're driving that path you go through arizona and colorado and some of like the navajo mountains so um it was the sixth division of historic route 66 so when you put it together it becomes 666 yes it does so sixth division of highway 66 i see uh if you have somehow not been rattled by christianity at some point in your life you may not know that 666 you may not know that 666 represents the devil

that's a cute way to put it i've just been a little rattled we all have whether or not you were shoved into it from childhood or you just like have been on the periphery yeah yeah we've all been rattled a little bit a little spooked a little bit good bad yeah um so yeah 666 represents the devil apparently it's in the book of revelations couldn't tell you what that means i haven't gotten that far in my bible reading read the book of revelation that's the only fun one oh well all right see there's the one where like the world is ending and everything's like on fire and there's great beasts well yeah well yeah. Well, Hey, that's, that's the mention. There's a,

that's where six, six, six comes from too. So you're, you're onto something there. So book of revelations, 13, 18, the passages,

let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast for the number is that of a man and his number is 666. And then there's like really no explanation as to why so which like i feel like it's probably a lot of the bible but um all we know is this arbitrary number 666 is associated with the devil but they say it's because 999 represents god and it's upside down and therefore i think i know why i think it's because three mean three is the number of the Trinity. And,

oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Maybe not. I didn't know about nine. When is nine a number of God?

That's what, that's what I've been told. Again, I couldn't give you a full, uh, sourcing on the Bible, but I heard that, but maybe really,

I always, I, that's what I always, let me see. Let's see if we do. Maybe. I mean, I feel like seven is always a me see. Let's see if we can do a quick dooks of it now. I feel like seven is always a biblical number and three.

Maybe nine is too. 999. The meaning of the number 999 centers around God's Holy Spirit, according to biblestudy.org. Oh, okay. So that makes sense why it would be 666. I'm sorry. I am actually Christian today and I knew something you didn't, which is interesting. You sure did. I mean, I'm impressed. Thanks. Okay, now I'm not, that felt fun for five seconds, and I don't want to be a Christian anymore. Okay. To be fair,

you're the one who allegedly read the Bible already twice or whatever you said. I read it once forever ago, but I realized a big chunk through that I wasn't actually retaining anything. So I'm trying again and it's going just about the same. Okay. Okay. But anyway, blah, blah, blah. 666 means the devil. We don't know how or why.

Your guess is as good as mine. So just because of that, Highway 666, which has also been called Highway 666 uh has earned a reputation throughout the years as cursed and the road itself like the conditions don't really help that reputation it's like a pretty treacherous path um a lot of the edges are near a lot of steep cliffs um and there have been people who have died from that. There are long, long, long, lonely stretches where, like, the only thing you can see is just whatever is ahead of you in your lights if it's, like, pitch black out. It just feels eerie. Apparently, the altitude on this road alone ranges from almost 3 000 feet in altitude to over 11 000 feet

so like you just might be oxygen deprived and you just think there's ghosts you might just be getting like spooked from like plain old hallucinations oh no uh also in like one particular 60 mile stretch there's over 400 curves oh i get throwing up back there i'd be puking altitude sickness car sickness nausea imagine it's pitch black outside you're like basically in the desert you probably don't even have service to download our podcast out there honestly tragic tragic indeed and uh so yeah it's like it's already a pretty spooky road especially considering a lot of people are driving it by themselves and so it's just got that air to it um and a lot of the lore comes from truckers who are driving on this patch of uh route 66 and they claim that there are many uh entities

on this highway so So, for example. I love trucker stories. Oh, I can make, I'll do a whole theme of that eventually. That would be great. We could even maybe do a listener episode of people who write in. I don't know how many people we listen to who listen to us are truckers, but I know a lot of truckers are podcast listeners. So maybe we have a couple out there. Not all.

No. Never mind. I was going to be be i felt like it was gonna be really good profound yeah profound i don't think we're ready for it yet my brain stopped my brain started thinking this is gonna be great and then a split second later my brain went don't say it out loud i feel honored that i got to watch the progression happen on your face of just wait for this. Actually, never mind. Let's move on. Christine, I need to go to a doctor, I think.

Yeah. Something's happening in my brain. I mean, I could have told you that. Yeah. So, okay. So, trucker lore. Let's get into it. So, one story is that very late at night, there was one guy driving on the road, and

he saw this glowing orange light coming towards him. Uh-oh. Very quickly, he realized that this glowing orange light was an 18-wheeler on fire barreling toward him. He pulls off the road very last minute and hears maniacal laughter coming from the truck. And when he looks back back when he hears the laughing it's completely gone just holy crap has totally vanished on this very long stripper road that he should have been able to see something oh no uh so that's one story also fun fact there is an episode of supernatural called route 666 where there's a phantom 18-wheeler on fire

running people off the road. No way. I don't think it's, I think it's set in Missouri or something, but it's like, I mean, the same concept. Same idea. Similarly themed lore on Highway 666 is of an old vintage looking black car

that has been said to be the reason for several unexplained fatal crashes along this road. Oh, no. So there's a lot of unexplained car wrecks. And I guess the theory every time is, oh, it was probably that black sedan. Because out of nowhere, you can like look in your rearview mirror nothing no one near you no cars you're by yourself on this road you look back a second later and this black sedan is on your ass oh shit and there it's like flashing its lights at you it's trying to run you off the road and even if you

try to outrun it and like speed along it will always keep up with you and basically until it rams into you eventually where it will smack into the back of you maybe it'll try to cut you off and side swipe you but it won't leave until it finally gets you and then as soon as it gets you and you look around for it it's vanished what the hell isn't that fucking horrific what do you think the point of that is is that like i don't know i'm just i have goose cam just thinking about it creepy i don't i don't know why like what that would mean or like who that is it feels evil um certainly because i'd like to think like oh that's just a prankster but like that's a really

fucking mean prank yeah a really murderous prankster yeah so eventually just disappears once it's done its job i guess maybe it's maybe it's like reliving like how it how the person in that car died i don't know maybe it's christine maybe it is i don't know it's like i can't say that's wrong i don't know. It's like, I can't say that's wrong. I don't know. There's another ghost. You know what I'm referencing, right? No, I just thought it was you. No, the car. Oh, was it James Dean's car or something?

No, no, no. It's a Stephen King novel and movie called Christine, which is about a killer car. Yes. Okay. I only know about that because I feel like you're the only one who ever mentions that car to me. Really? Yeah. The only one, but you have said it before and I was confused then too. You were like, who's to say maybe it is Christine. I was like, I thought if I were talking about yourself in the third person, you're like, maybe it's Christine. I get that one a lot like oh like the killer car um how many people are approaching you and saying a lot really it's a

very it was a famous movie in the 90s and a famous book i i i'm sure if it was a stephen king book it's like carrie like when people are like oh like you know i see similar idea interesting how does he have any other books with that start with women's names? Oh, that's a great question. I only know about those two. I only know about those two. I wonder if he knew a Christine and a Carrie and he was like, they're fucking evil. I'm going to use that as inspiration. Those bitches.

No, I am even shocked by myself that I don't know those references on my own because it's Stephen King. And you would think, oh, a famous famous spooky situation I should know about that I just it just goes to show you how far removed I am from a library apparently so they did make a movie I haven't seen it though oh okay well that makes me feel better maybe we'll watch that sometime yeah we, we should. Okay, so sure. Maybe Stephen King wrote about this little ditty. I'm just saying maybe this is the car, the killer car, you know. Honestly, it makes as much sense as any other theory to me. So then this is what I want you to really jump in on because you and Blaze have a story like this. And I would like you to discuss it. like you to discuss it uh the next common lore or spooky entity on these uh on these roads is that there is a lady or girl in white she's called the lady in white and the girl in white

so i don't know which one she is but apparently it's a barefoot young woman in a white nightgown and she's seen crying by the side of the road. And sometimes she's been seen to like she's crying as if she's like trying to desperately flag down a car. Or it looks like she got abandoned by another car and now is crying on the side of the road. Either way, she looks miserable by herself on the side of the road. Either way, she looks miserable by herself on the side of the road. And allegedly, those who stop to see if she's okay will then report that she vanishes in front of their eyes. Creepy. And many think that this spirit might actually be stuck here because maybe she was a hitchhiker who got picked up by the wrong person. And the theory is that she's buried nearby that patch of the road.

Oh, that just gave me goose cam that she's like nearby that patch of the road oh that just gave me goose cam that she's like just waiting to be found oh god uh might you insert your own story about the woman i forgot i had told you about that i like didn't even realize i told you about that it gets me jazzed i think especially because like it final something finally rattled Blaze. It really did. It was to the point where Blaze's reaction was making me scared rather than the other way around. So we were at the beach at like midnight. OK, we were at my romantic. Yeah. Well, it was kind of gross and it smelled like seaweed.

So we just took our beer and went home. But we were like, oh, let's go to the beach at midnight it was um we were like visiting my stepmom's house she has like a house uh by the beach on the east coast and we were like oh let's walk to the beach and just like have a beer so we went and walked to the beach and then we were walking back at like it might have even been later it might have been like two in the morning i don't know and we were walking home down this like, and this is a very isolated, like, I don't want to say desolate, but like very sparse area. There were a couple houses, but it wasn't like a touristy area. It's not like a public beach or anything. And so we were walking back down this road, this like path through the wood, like it's almost like wooded on the side of the beach.

the wood like it's almost like wooded um on the side of the beach and all of a sudden we like see this lady in a white dress like probably a hundred yards ahead of us and we were like where did she come from because there's no houses there anything we're like where did she come from and I was like oh she must have just uh she must have just like wandered out and maybe she's waiting for someone to pick her up it was so strange and as we got closer and there was no way we had to walk right past her. There was no way like we could turn to the side or walk a different path or even turn around. So we were like, we just have to go past. And we were so scared that I remember I smashed my beer bottle on a rock because I was like, I feel like I might need a weapon we were so afraid and it was just this girl or like this young woman and she was in a white dress and it was like two two or

three in the morning just standing there staring straight across from her across the path into the woods just stood there the entire time and as we got closer and closer closer blaze was freaking he was losing his mind i've never seen him so scared he freaking out and i was like oh i was the one trying to be rational like i'm sure she's just waiting for her friends and as we got closer she was fucking gone just vanished vanished we walked past i turned and i was like where did she go and we had our flashlights on our phones just like trees like i don't know where she went maybe she saw us and like ducked behind a tree i have no idea but blades was like let's get the fuck out of here and we ran back that would almost make me run faster because like now i'd be like oh she's

hiding because she's like ready to like jump and get us or something i was more worried yeah i was more worried she was like dangerous i don't know why i mean i guess just because why would you be out in the middle of the night but like meanwhile i wonder if she was panicked about you and like i know started hiding when she saw you coming she's like that lady's holding a broken beer bottle yeah of course she should be scared but like we did not see her again and blaze to this day it's like i don't want to talk about it he was so scared but it was creepy because she was in white it was the middle of the night she was just standing there it also freaks me out because like obviously the worst movie in the world the

strangers uh there was like a very quick clip where like they weren't even the killers weren't even doing anything but they were just standing out in the woods just staring at the house straight ahead that's the creepy and it's like staring it's like what are you doing and like why i i can't i couldn't even i don't know i have no idea that was what i kept saying i was like if she would just like look at us like turn glance our way anything i'd be less freaked out but she's just staring straight ahead but blankly and just like frozen in this white dress and i was like it is like two or three in the morning it is cold out she's just standing there in this like desolate part of the island it's almost like you don't even want to open up the conversation to be like hi do you need help because then she might be like i need help killing you like i don't know we do step aside uh yeah exactly it was very freaky

i can't explain it was like one of those you had to be there because we were just feeding off each other's fear probably but also like like this was a really – we were on an island and it was like very desolate part of the island. Like nobody was out there. There weren't houses there. We had walked quite a way to get there. So it was like what are you doing out here at 2 in the morning on the side of the road by yourself? I don't know. It was spooky anyway.

Well, there you have it. I'm getting my chocolate back. I'm – Stress eating? Yeah. anyway well there you have it there's a my chocolate back i'm i'm stress eating yeah uh okay well besides in this situation the girl in white that people claim to see on the side of the road there are other phantom hitchhikers that people have seen that disappear in front of you and some of them some of them my friend do not have faces you know i don't like that i i want to find someone who does like that okay fair point were you trying to be original there because i can't imagine if i told someone oh yeah this person doesn't have eyes and they're just like yes you know is that and then they vanish in front of you

okay so no this they they don't have a face like it's just a blob of a face i guess and others have said that so those other people that i just mentioned they will see a hitchhiker on the side of the road. And then as they approach them, they'll vanish, including these faceless phantoms. But others have said that the hitchhikers will go so far as to straight up get in your car and have full ass conversations with you. And basically, as you're driving, you will look over and they're gone. That is freaky. Now that I just certainly couldn't tolerate tolerate especially as i'm operating a vehicle a vehicle no freaking get it um some people which i think is if they have to be in my car the kinder version is that people have said

a hitchhiker got in their car and they had a whole conversation and then like drop them off somewhere and then they found out later that that was a whole conversation and then like drop them off somewhere and then they found out later that that was a fucking ghost and so many other people have had that experience where they that is kinder because you're not just in the moment sending me into a existential crisis yeah but then again it's like why do you keep getting dropped off at the same place like just like maybe that was the last thing that happened to them or replay thing yeah but like but maybe i is it conversations yeah they're they're clearly reacting to your original words compared to somebody else maybe they're just having maybe they're just meeting talking to people and they just keep going uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh and everyone's

like no we had a great conversation but they're not self-aware enough to realize they were the only one talking. I would like to know if all those people could get in a room and repeat the conversation because maybe the hitchhiker is just asking them the same questions. Maybe the hitchhiker is creating the narrative there. He's just carrying every conversation on his back and everyone thinks. What a terrible way to live eternity. Oh, so where are you driving? cool okay so okay a lot of hitchhiker ghosts um and then there are theories about um hellhounds hanging out in these i keep thinking the woods

because that's all i know apparently about lone roads but in this desert highway apparently there are there are hellhounds which are satan's pets and i guess they are said to be seen in the middle of the night when your car breaks down and you're by yourself oh well never mind i was like cool if i see one when i'm passing through but if i'm stopped, I'd rather not. I mean, my toxic trait is thinking I would run into an actual hellhound and I could like, he would like me. It's like a hundred percent.

It's like, I'm different. He won't eat me. I know you're here to drag me to hell, but like, have you experienced peanut butter? Cause like, I'm a dog person. I have peanut butter belly rubs. I don't see what could go wrong. Yeah, exactly. I've got a tennis ball in my car.

You could go fucking nuts over that. But yeah, so this is especially a problem for people who are riding motorcycles down this road. They seem to have most of these hellhound experiences maybe because they're just like sitting outside and like can hear nature around them um i say as someone who's never been on a motorcycle they're maybe they're just hearing a massive motor but um in my mind i i still i get so freaked out at the concept of being someone who rides a motorcycle because like what about when you're like riding home really late at night and you're at a red light and you just have to sit with your feet on the pavement like

and hope no one comes and grabs you i don't know in my head it's so creepy but like i'm sure there's also the like stereotype that if you have a motorcycle you're like bad and tough and no one's probably going to approach you but like i would still be freaked the fuck out every time oh yeah especially when you stop and like the motor lulls and it's quiet not quiet but like you know quieter like you're just already outside you don't even have the safety of your car anyway they apparently motorcyclists experience it the most there's actually one story uh that a bunch of bikers once got into a fight with these hellhounds. Oh. So not even like being in a pack,

like numbers didn't save you. Like just hellhounds came at this like whole group of bikers. Oh shit. Apparently they lost their arms in this fight. What? Apparently the bikers got in a fight with hellhounds and they got their arms ripped off. And then in the same spooky story one of the bikers got their faces bitten off by the hellhounds but they were not

dragged to hell and thus it was a success oh good well glad to them but think about it they got their face been off now there's a faceless hitchhiker just saying oh maybe those are all lumped into one situation those are the victims of the hellhounds aha and they're cursed to spend eternity having meaningless conversation with drivers and i'm convinced okay yay and just like that you're right um ah look at me go truckers have also said that hellhounds will straight up jump into your car so like if you think like oh well i'm in a massive 18 wheeler i'm safe from the hellhounds uh apparently they will literally break through your windows just to get to you oh they will break

through the window it doesn't even need to be open yes they don't need to put their like cute little hellhound paws up and like wait for you like they're breaking through they're they're taking charge okay they are satanic so it shocks me less i just keep thinking of like a beagle or something yeah i'm like that's so sweet oh no i guess not um which also freaks me out because if i were ever driving on this road and found like an abandoned puppy and like yeah like now do i stop for the puppy like how, how sinister does this get? Are they tricking me to, like, maybe they don't. Do they look innocent? I don't know.

I don't know. Like, what if you saw a little puppy dog just limping across the road? You tell me I'm not going to stop for it? Yeah, as if. I think hellhounds, if they knew that that strategy would work, there'd be a lot more reports of them. Maybe they are. Maybe that's who they are. And we're just all getting duped to left and right aha well geo is a little evil and he well that's true come from the streets so he came

from the woods though oh he was abandoned in the woods i gotta tell you the other than hellhounds there's no other dog i've heard of that enjoys eating rocks solid rocks than geo so i wouldn't be shocked if he was part satanic um it just eats them like they're tic tacs it's so creepy okay so creepo talk about tummy ache i know well okay so here's the thing these they will jump into your windows they'll break through the glass just to get to you and this lore um they're also known that like if you were to see one of them running across the street or i guess if you didn't see one and you accidentally hit one with your car uh it's said to leave like hulk-sized dents in your car but they're but the dog's fine they just like run off as if nothing happened so it's like hitting superman um i wonder if that was someone who actually hit a dog though

and just tried to cover up for it you know or just hit something else and was like oh no it was a hellhound yeah in my car as i drive and don't look back yeah yeah geez um okay so allegedly uh other than hellhounds people claim that there are other entities seen on the road including what i will be renaming uh flesh saunterers uh whatever you see the synonyms i'm doing here flesh and sauntering taking a stroll okay so the reason i am changing up the word is because last time when i talked about flesh saunter ranch if you i did that episode a long time ago people wrote in and kept saying that saying the actual word is like not that wise to do apparently uh culturally it is uh in a lot of indigenous traditions if you say it

it brings a lot of bad luck and they can hear you and you're summoning them and a lot of people actually I think turned off that episode because they felt like by listening to it they were experiencing some dark stuff so out of respect I'm renaming them even though that

feels like the wrong thing to do if I'm trying to be respectful but I hope you understand where I'm trying to come from. Sure. Yes. Okay. So a lot of people claim that those entities walk up and down Route 666. And like I just said, apparently saying their name is very dangerous. It gives them power.

And we're just not going to say the name. I just feel like flesh Sontra sounds way more cursed than anything you've ever said on this show. Right? It feels definitely like I'm not helping the situation. No! I can't think of another word for walker. I mean, Sontra is not the part that's creeping me out. Well, okay. Well, flesh is the only word I can think of other than skin.

The epidermis runner. Oh, no. Okay, never mind. All of this is so bad. It sounds like Ed Gein is involved all of a sudden. Okay. Well, speaking of indigenous people, there have been some Navajo sources that have said that these stories of these entities being on the roads have actually been not accurate and they are usually created by non-Indigenous people for

like content views. Wow shocking. Yeah so. You hear how surprised I am? Yeah well as I'm a non-Indigenous person talking about this for content views like i certainly don't feel that great about it but i will use the platform to at least say uh usually if you're hearing about flesh saunterers um you know maybe pay attention to what type of creator is talking about it because usually a good chunk of it is lore that was just made up for the spook factor when like it's actually a really like sacred part of their practices. So there's actually a Cherokee writer named Dr. Adrian Keene who is quoted saying about these entities. They're connected to many concepts and ceremonial understandings and life ways. It's not just a scary story or something to tell kids to get them to behave. It's much deeper than that.

Plus, as we've discussed before, there's a long and ugly history of involving indigenous beliefs into history to make it scary. Sure. And it's just, let's try to unlearn that, folks. try to unlearn that folks um so there's a chance that these beings have only been inserted into the narrative of this road because especially because the highway is partly on navajo land sure so i'm sure that doesn't like help people bolster when it comes to bolstering that that narrative so sure anyway if you hear someone saying that those beings are walking up and down the road maybe check fact check that yeah um now let's go on to probably your favorite part which is the ufos oh boy okay oh boy uh people also uh alongside all the ghosts claim that there are either alien

abductions happening on this road or some sort of dimensional rifts happening on this road no because people often claim to lose time when driving on this highway and to be fair as i go into this because this was my first thought i was like okay well it's probably just like a bout of like highway hypnosis where like you're driving on a long long long road and you're by yourself and it's dark and your brain is going to come up with things to entertain itself but apparently that's it's not that simple there's one guy he swears that when he was driving quote the air seemed to bend around his truck and light started flashing by him like he hit warp speed in star wars and this went on for like 15 full ass minutes oh shit so it's not like oh shake yourself out of it like it's still happening he

was like he had 15 minutes to look around be like am i losing it what is going on this is happening and like going at impossible speeds thinking he's probably gonna hit something yeah um and then after 15 minutes when it stopped and he went back to a normal speed three hours had passed oh i mean i would pay for that kind of technology to get me through a road trip that's true. And maybe not as dramatic, but certainly something I still don't want to experience. Other people have claimed to lose massive chunks of time on this highway where you'll be driving and then in like the blink of an eye, it's dark out and you're almost out of gas and it's been six hours. Nice that they wake you up before you run out of gas. Yeah, but just barely.

Maybe you'll make... What a crossover, though, if the aliens and the hellhounds got together because you're almost out of gas and then you break down on the side of the road and then the hellhounds are there. Boy. So even passengers, not the drivers themselves,

have experienced this alongside the driver where the two of them will be like, did you experience that? So neither of them can remember anything for the last few hours. And some swear that a minor event will happen right before this time slip. Some people have said that they see a green flash of light in front of them before they lose hours of time. flash of light in front of them before they lose hours of time and others say that their car broke down for a moment so they pulled over and within seconds uh like the problem will fix itself and they're like oh okay let me get back on the road and they realize that in those split seconds where the problem fixed itself it's actually been hours that's gotta be an abduction right an alien abduction right like i mean first of all it's it's i in my mind i'm like oh well that's gotta be an abduction right an alien abduction right like i mean first of all

it's it's i in my mind i'm like oh well that's kind that they at least like pull you over to the side of the road before they abduct you so they don't pull you out of a car going like 60 miles an hour um but it might be because like we've talked before about ufos like kind of making um like taking absorbing energy from machines and breaking them down or something so maybe you think your car is breaking down because it like got restarted or something by a ufo nearby like fucked it up in some way i don't know but it it feels weird that oh my car's breaking down i better pull over and then seconds later your car is fine and it's been hours like what i just imagine that that's uh implanted memory i feel like people talk about like they're abducted and then they have some

weird memory of things like very very inane things yeah oh my car broke down and then it started but like in reality that's just like implanted memory to fill in that space oh okay well next like it um obviously many people attribute this to alien abductions and this also makes sense to me that like this is in kind of a desert-y desolate remote area so probably aliens can be a little crazier over there um without getting noticed and part of this road drives through new me. So it's not far from Roswell if something's going on there. If it isn't UFOs, people often think that they might be driving

through some sort of vortex where they like go through this tunnel where the rules of time and space are different. Oh, spooky. So maybe they pop out on the other side and that feels like only moments to them, but they end up at a different like jump point in time. Some people think that these time jump experiences, a.k.a. allegedly driving through a vortex, they claim that they have gotten to a destination hours earlier than they should have.

Oh. Because I don't know if that means like time stops, but they kept going. Right. You know, I don't know how it totally works out. Or if they got transported. Teleported. Teleported. Yeah.

Yeah. So people will say that they will show up somewhere hours earlier and it makes no sense. But other people claim that it feels like time is frozen and they get places super late and they can't explain why either. Oh, those spook me. Those are creepy too because it's like where did the time even go it's not like you can say oh we were just driving that whole time like i don't know something about getting there late freaks me out because it's like we lost hours and because you can't even explain yourself to people later so then it's

like an it's an additional shame like i feel like i'm late all the time to things and if I ever said like oh I was in a vortex you'd be like what I'd be like honestly it's better than the usual like oh I needed one more source or whatever right right right right like I said I swear I set an alarm for every single minute and a vortex just took me away you know what maybe that's why I set alarms for every minute to rattle myself out of a vortex. Yeah, you never know. So there's one story of a girl named Rachel and her friend who were driving on Route 666 or Highway 666. When up ahead, they saw a massive accident of like several fire trucks, several ambulancesances several cop cars so they pulled off and just like went

to a gas station for a moment to i guess not have to sit in traffic uh they ended up saying all right well let's just keep going and so they get back on the highway maybe only like not even five minutes later and there are no emts there are no vehicles there's no sign of an accident. I don't like that. Right where they had just been. And so people think like, oh, maybe they blinked. They like blinked out of reality in some way. And like they were in a vortex and saw like another universe or parallel dimension. Or maybe the ambulance and the accident, they blinked into our reality for a second and then they were gone so maybe like the vortex works both ways maybe they had like some sort of glitch in

the matrix where they saw something from the past or something that hadn't happened yet maybe right which is super creepy if like oh you saw a future accident i don't know but i mean apparently it was fast enough that there's no way everything could have just, they could have just driven away and there'd be no sign. Like, there was no rubble on the ground from an accident, nothing. That is so weird. Super creepy. So, in recent years, Highway 666 is said to be much safer to drive, and it's been renamed.

One reason was to avoid talk of it being cursed, just in hopes that the energy would not be there anymore. Well, and once again, if part of it is on Native American land and you're calling it cursed, like that's also, let's like move away from that. You know what I mean? which brings me to the next point but another another reason was because linking this road to evil when it passes through navajo territory was not a good look no um and one woman named laverda washburn of the navajo nation um she actually also lost a bunch of her family members in accidents on this road oh no and like also i can imagine there's some like shitty ignorant person who's like oh maybe it was a monster on the road like someone could have said something so fucked up sure uh but at the end of the day as someone who

is like indigenous and had people die on this road and has had to grow up hearing all of the lore um she was quoted saying every day Navajo people use this highway to go to work, to go to school, to go to the hospital, and yet it's named after something evil. It's the symbolism that's important. So the governor said, for years the Navajo Nation tried to get rid of this highway's number and no one ever listened. So what we are doing is a long time coming. And no one ever listened. So what we are doing is a long time coming. So on top of just changing the name and number, they have expanded it into a four-lane highway.

So it's bigger. I don't know why it sounds like it's a highway that doesn't always get a lot of traction. Maybe that was just from several years ago in the past. But they've expanded it to a four-lane highway. And it's had other safety improvements done to it. And it's now named highway four, nine, one. Oh,

two of my lucky numbers. Yeah. I don't know why, how they picked that. I don't know if there's like a highway protocol or something, but yeah. Anyway, four,

nine, one. So that's the least satanic numbers they could come up with technically shouldn't it be 999 yeah anyway that is uh the formerly called highway 666 that was a great story and i got a couple bouts of goose cam um and i want to say too there was a story on jim harrell's camprell's campfire that I don't remember what road they were driving on, but they were definitely on a road trip and they were driving from West Coast to East. So it might have been Highway 66 on a different stretch. I'm not sure.

But they were talking about it was such a like wild story. And they even said, like, I know this sounds crazy, but like, you know, I'm a very science minded person, blah, blah, blah. But they were driving down this road and all of a sudden they saw dinosaurs. They were like, it was as I know. And she was like, what? It was as if I got like transported into like a like for just like a few seconds, got like put into like a totally different time. I got just like flashed back to the normal road and she's like i wasn't sleeping i wasn't anyway obviously i'm not doing it justice but she was like i think

she had like a doctorate like she's like i'm not a dummy like i i and i was not hallucinating that's so fucked up oh my god but she said something like it felt like she got sucked into like a time warp and all of a sudden there were dinosaurs and then she got like that's wild back to normal it's one of those things were part of me before i like think about it i'm like man i wish i'd have something like that and then i'm like no i don't what am i talking about forever i feel like i never recover from that also i really want her to be friends with the paleontologist so now she can go up to like look at the bones and be like that's not how it looked in real life that one's backwards yeah can you imagine the dinosaurs who saw her for a second and were like what the fuck is that

but that's what i always think about when it's like oh i saw a ghost from the colonial era and i'm like they probably saw a ghost from the future and we're like what the fuck are you wearing you know yeah i mean imagine seeing a fucking car and you're a dinosaur and you're like that moves by itself what's going on that's one weird looking dinosaur i don't know what i would think but it is fun to imagine anyway so i don't know if that was on the same road, but the way she told it was obviously much more poignant and scary. And I just probably butchered it. But it was very, like, alarming because you think, oh, well, if you go through a time warp, like, why wouldn't you go back to a million years ago? You know what I mean?

Like, why wouldn't you go back to a time when suddenly there are dinosaurs there? You know what I mean? Like, why wouldn't you go back to a time when suddenly there are dinosaurs there? It's kind of, kind of the same concept of where everyone, like there's that meme of like, how come all the ghosts are from the 1800s and not like a 2007 Britney fan? Like,

but it, it goes in reverse. Like how come everyone has like jumps into glitches in the matrix that are only like a hundred years max away? Like why isn't there a, a medieval Renaissance glitch in the matrix or something great question you know it's i wonder it's harder to get it's too far removed yeah i wonder if eventually like even your soul kind of fades out of existence like i wonder if in the 1800s they

were only seeing like 1700s people and then after all those people died the ghosts were like damn even the people that could see me are dead now i guess i should just go move on like i wonder like eventually are there just going to be no ghosts from the 1900s and you're like 2500 you know that's a great point m because i never see a ghost from year three, you know? So like, where'd they go? Wow. There should be ghosts of cavemen. I know, but there weren't that many of them, right? And there was at least one.

You would think a museum full of like caveman memorabilia. You'd think like some caveman chachka has an attachment and yet i've never seen a fucking caveman in a museum that wasn't a statue okay but you don't see ghosts every day like maybe somebody has seen a caveman ghost and you know what for we are so lucky that we have so many listeners and every time you've ever made a request during listener stories we're like i want a cowboy episode people just flood our emails okay mr armchair ghosts and guess what people flooded somehow there are armchair ghosts enough of them to do a whole episode on and yet i think the real the the one challenge no one can accomplish is caveman ghost stories

i think we would not get a single email okay i just feel like if you're looking at this statistically the number of people that have existed since then are so much higher than the number of people that existed during caveman era so like the odds of seeing a caveman ghost are so much slimmer okay but here's the thing then imagine you're in like year 100 or something like those people should have if they're seeing ghosts they're only seeing caveman ghosts yeah no because the year 100 was not when jesus died allegedly that's fair okay uh which by the way does that mean in year 1 a.d did anyone see jesus's ghost wait hang on no he was born in okay forget it after death right

no honest dominion year of our lord okay oh fuck so uh hold on i've heard help me i've heard of people seeing ghosts of like roman soldiers and things but obviously that happens in italy like what are we you know what i'm saying like yeah i guess if you're in like colonial of like Roman soldiers and things. But obviously that happens in Italy. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I guess if you're in like colonial America, you know, maybe you're seeing colonial ghosts, but like you wouldn't be seeing a caveman in like Burbank. You are totally right.

So I don't know. Maybe it's just the place that makes the difference. All right. In that case, we need to go to the place that had the most cavemen per capita and then we just sit on it and just hope for the best. Okay, you make some good points. We'll go back to year 100 AD.

God, every history major listening is like having an episode. Does it really? I always thought BC was before Christ and AD was after death. That's not true? It was year of our Lord. No, because then he would have died at age zero that doesn't make any sense uh you're totally right why didn't my brain always think that i don't know we don't really need to think we don't need to sit on that why did my brain think that that's a very loaded

question that i don't feel like i have the authority to answer i really my i just hey whatever that's you're everyone who's thinking wow m's an idiot you know what you're right and that I don't feel like I have the authority to answer. I really might. I just, Hey, whatever. That's you're everyone who's thinking, wow, M's an idiot. You know what? You're right. And I'm fine with that. I'm not going to lose sleep about it. It's okay. That's all that matters. I'm totally fine with them. I feel like I was also taught AD after death, but I don't think that that's correct. I think that's just one of those like, uh, things people assume and then nobody corrects it. Do you know what I'm saying? As someone who knew that 999 meant the year of our Lord, I'm going to say that it cancels out today. You should have quit on a high. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell your story so everyone can forget this whole experience.

All right. Well, if we didn't have enough headaches on uh on our minds today i'm gonna bring you an unsolved mystery okay for you to to really scream about and turn and scream about yeah yeah yeah this is the story of angela hammond okay and uh this was featured in an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, season four, episode 16. So a lot of that information comes from that. So in the Unsolved Mysteries episode that covers Angela's disappearance, the host said, for every mystery, someone somewhere knows the truth. So I, for one, I'm still hoping, like all unsolved cases that somebody has a moment and says, hey, I know something or confesses or who knows. But we can only hope. So Angela was born February 9th, 1971.

And this takes place in the year 1991. So she's about 20. And she lived in Clinton, Missouri. And now this is a small farming community with a population of about 9, Missouri. And now this is a small farming community of with a population of about 9000. And I was I was like reading this the other day and I rolled over to Blaze and I went, don't your grandparents live in Clinton, Missouri? And he was like, yeah, why? And I was like, that's where the story takes place. He goes, are you sure it's a really small town? And I was like, yeah. Did the grandparents remember? No no so they actually didn't move there till later

in life so uh because my mother-in-law's from Missouri but she didn't grow up in Clinton but that's where they moved later um but yeah so kind of weird because it's like a small farm like they have a farm out there it's like very rural um so it's just just a weird coinkydink that's all gotcha um but I've been there Gio loved it he met a horse forinkydink. That's all. Gotcha. But I've been there. Gio loved it. He met a horse for the first time. Did they get along? Well, he tried to bite its ankle. And then I had to drag him away so he didn't get kicked in the face.

And then he walked directly into the lake. And I had to pull him out because I don't know if he would have figured out how to swim. So he really is not built for the farm. You know, he to swim. So he really is not built for the farm. You know, he's a city dog. He's not built for the farm. I like how I feel like anyone else would see a creature, a living creature 20 times their size, and the last thing they'd do is try to hurt it.

100%. He's like, I'm going to attack that thing. And I was like, I wouldn't if I were you. I really wouldn't. I would openly be like, you are the alpha in this situation it's time for me to backtrack over here geo's not known for being you know humble or um understanding his his place in the world always takes on a challenge that's for sure yeah yeah he won't uh he won't back down uh easily so anyway angela in 1991 is living in clinton missouri the small farming community she worked at a bank she attended

central missouri state university and her family the hammonds had lived in clinton for three generations and angela was nicknamed angie she was well known she was well liked throughout town she was charming and outgoing. Just one of those classic people you see in one of these TV shows where it's like she lit up a room, you know? She had started dating her boyfriend, 18-year-old Rob Schaefer, in November of 1990. And apparently Rob was a local celebrity. Okay, Rob. I know.

Because he was a celebrity athlete in town. He was like the small town, like a superstar, you know, going places. If you're a celebrity athlete by 18 in a small town, I'm just going to take a stab in the dark and say that he was the quarterback of the high school football team. He played volleyball. No, I don't know. I assume it was, I assume it was a football. It seems to be the most likely scenario. In a small Midwest town. Yeah. Yeah, precisely. But so he was a senior in high school and he planned to enlist in the military when he graduated. They'd been dating for a while and two months into their relationship, January 1991, Angie had found out she was pregnant. January 1991 Angie had found out she was pregnant so Rob proposed to Angie with a diamond ring they were so excited and Angela's mother Marsha said Rob promised Angie he'd always be there to take

care of her he felt very protective of her they loved each other deeply they were very excited about this baby and about their engagement and then everything goes wrong okay just okay just just oh my god this story is so wackadoo okay oh april 4th 1991 angie and rob so she's a couple months pregnant angie and rob went to a barbecue together in angie's car afterward she dropped him off at his house where he lived with his family at 10 p.m. on her way to visit her friend Kyla. She promised to call him later. Meanwhile, Rob was babysitting his younger brother and planned to meet back up with Angie when his mom came home. So this is the timeline and this just becomes important because there really aren't many more clues than this timeline.

aren't many more clues than this timeline. So just a little over an hour later at 11 20 PM, Angie called Rob from a pay phone about seven blocks from his house in the center of town. She said there was a vehicle that kept circling around the block while she was on the phone. Rob later reported that it was an older model green Ford pickup truck and Angie hadn't recognized the truck or the driver so Rob was like oh it's probably somebody who's just from out of town and is lost so don't worry about it. Well then the driver parked at the phone booth and Angie told Rob the driver is getting out of his car and coming toward me. She yeah she said he's dirty he had a mustache scruffy dark hair a beard and wore overalls eyeglasses and a baseball cap.

The man tried to use the payphone next to Angie, got back in his truck, and started searching for something inside with a flashlight. Because remember, it says like 11 at night, 1130 at night. Rob told Angie to ask if this guy needed to use her phone. Like maybe the other phone was broken and this guy was just trying to use the phone. She asked, hey, Serge, you need to use her phone. Like maybe the other phone was broken and this guy was just trying to use the phone. She asked, hey, Serge, you need to use the phone. I can get off this one. And he said, no, thanks. He'd try the other phone again in a moment. So Rob got uncomfortable and said, hang on, I'm going to come meet you. And she's like, no, no, it's fine. It's not necessary. They went back to their conversation. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Rob heard through the phone, Angie began screaming a blood curdling scream. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Rob heard through the phone, Angie began screaming a blood-curdling scream.

And then he heard a man's voice say, I didn't need to use the phone anyway. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Rob dropped the phone, didn't even hesitate, leapt into his car and raced toward the town square. Again, this is only like seven blocks from his house on his way there he sees the pickup truck passing him going the other direction and angie saw him from inside she screamed robbie at him from an open window holy shit as the vehicles pass each other he did a u-turn and began chasing the truck they went down the main road passing through the town's business district.

There were buildings all around. There were some people out, but like nobody knew why they were chasing each other through this town square. So nobody really thought to do anything. So Rob was right on the abductor's tail, like yards away, seconds away from rescuing Angie. Unfortunately, obviously this was not the era of cell phones

yet. And so, you know, if he had had a cell phone, he could have called the police and like had this, you know, sorted out. But it was 1991. The two of them were on their own and the clock was ticking. Rob, when he had pulled this U-turn, he had turned so violently that he basically destroyed the transmission of his car um and he was on the abductor's tail for about 10 miles uh when his car died in the middle of the road oh so he just had to watch her just drive away oh my god did he get the license plate number so that becomes a point of contention so he says he was on the abductor's tail for 10 miles. He said the truck was about a 1969 or 1970 model. And there was a decal covering the entire back windshield,

which looked to be like a fish jumping out of water, some sort of like big vinyl sticker of like a fish jumping out of the water. And as his car died, he recalled later in an interview, all I saw was his brake lights and dust and the hardest thing to cope with for obvious reasons is knowing he was close enough to get them but didn't get the job done and just had to watch as they drove away just like the most jarring horrifying thing um so the people of clinton were in shock. So there's this website called crimegrade.org where they like mark how dangerous and how likely a place is to have violent crime. And Clinton is only in the 27th percentile,

meaning like 73% of cities are safer and 27% of cities are more dangerous. So Clinton gets a D minus for violent crime. So it is considered more dangerous than the average U.S. city. We don't know what the score would have been in 1991. This is a more recent number. So, you know, there's no that just shows like maybe how likely it is to have had some sort of violent crime. But this kind of thing, somebody just grabbing a woman off the side of the road and driving away was still basically shocking to everybody in town, especially because it's such a small town and they knew her.

Yeah. So police and hundreds of local volunteers set out to find Angie both on land and by air, but they could not find any signs of Angie or her abductor. So the first thing, you know, Rob told police about the fishing scene he had seen on the back of this truck, this like big sticker. And so investigators were like, okay, well, let's look at fishermen who drive on these rarely used back roads to access fishing spots. They, you know, went through and interrogated anyone they could come across and ask if they knew anything, and they just couldn't really get any firm leads. So they found Angie's car by the

payphone still, her purse and her money were still inside the car. So there's this thing called the Missouri Rural, it's really hard to say, the Missouri Rural Crime Squad, which is made up from the cooperation of multiple counties, investigative forces. And they asked the public. This is kind of a twist on things. They asked the public to search their own land and their own barns and abandoned houses because, you know, usually the police would search. But, yeah, it makes sense because if you have a lot of land and you have barns, like you know how to search that more thoroughly than authorities would. Plus it's like get the town to help cover the scene.

Cover all that land. Yeah, exactly. It's a very rural area. So there's just like tracts of land and, you know, abandoned barns, things like that. So people were investigating their own land to see if they could find any sign of Angie. investigating their own land to see if they could find any sign of Angie. Property owners individually searching would be way more thorough than police searching every single property. And authorities actually offered a $6,000 reward for anyone who could find any information, which nowadays is about $13,000. Oh, wow. Unfortunately, nobody found anything.

So that did not go anywhere. But the State Highway Patrol did produce a list of 1,600 possible vehicles matching Rob's description. They went through all of those and nothing, no car they looked at, nothing produced any more evidence. So now with no other evidence and no witnesses, Rob became a suspect because he's the boyfriend. You know, he's the last person who talked to her and he's the only witness. So of course, they're going to look at him. Interestingly, Angie's mother didn't think for even a minute that Rob had anything to do with this. That's good. Yeah. So she really fully trusted him and she had known him since childhood. But she calmly said in an interview that she thought it was natural for people to question Rob because, quote, did the boyfriend do it type thing is a common, you know,

way to look at an investigation. And within a week, Rob was cleared. So even though his story was pretty far-fetched, it seemed to check out. That's good. Okay. Meanwhile, statewide media urged women to be careful. Ominously, the Springfield News Leader, the same paper that would later write reports on the disappearance of the Springfield Three only a year later, published a headline, Caution Needed for Women's Safety. And then a year later, the Springfield Three happened and they were the ones reporting on that as well. Very ominous. So as the investigation wore on, papers ran with the theory that maybe there was a serial killer loose in the Ozarks. And investigators told newspapers they were considering that Angie's abduction might actually be related to two other women's cases.

cases um so that same year 1991 in january and february 42 year old trudy darby and 30 year old cheryl kenny who were both convenience store cashiers were abducted at work so just like in their in public doing their thing were both taken from work uh and like angie trudy called her son to report a suspicious man in the parking lot before she was kidnapped, which is so eerie, you know, which is I also like, like, I wonder what really was the I don't know the right word is, but like, what was the aha moment or the X factor that made them so suspicious that because i i feel like a lot of times it's someone who's kind of unassuming and you don't know i mean there's also really creepy people out there but like i just i wonder what they saw that like really struck me was the big red flag yeah you know and i think with um angie it seems like she's on the phone and this guy's just circling the block over and over so that makes sense but i wonder, I wonder if it's, you know, and I feel like this is my moment to pitch my favorite book again that I occasionally

bring up, which is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. And he talks about this gut feeling and he, you know, mostly mentions women in the book just because they're mostly the victimized ones in crimes like this. But he talks about like how, victimized ones in crimes like this but he talks about like how I just reread it recently but he talks about how there's something in you oftentimes that will tell you a situation is wrong and you won't even consciously know why and I get goose cam every time I talk about this because like one of the examples is a woman who went into her house or sorry her apartment building and this guy offered to help with the groceries and helped her carry them upstairs and long story short he ended up assaulting her and she escaped and you know made it out but

looking back she was like I knew something was wrong alarm bells were ringing and she didn't realize why until later she realized when she came into the apartment building, she never heard the lock click. So she never heard somebody come into the building, which means he was waiting inside. And so just things like that where your brain picks up on it, even though you don't consciously know why, but your brain is like alarm bells, alarm bells. even though you don't consciously know why, but your brain is like alarm bells, alarm bells. And I think it was the same woman said he told her, hey, I'm going to let you go in a minute. And then he closed the window and walked out of her bedroom.

And she said, I need, like she said, her fear like overtook her whole body. She barely even controlled herself. And she followed him down the hallway naked and ran out the front door into her neighbor's apartment. And she realized later, even though he said, I'm going to let you go, he had shut the windows. And she was like, I think my brain subconsciously knew he wouldn't be shutting the windows unless he wanted to like not have anyone hear anything if he was going to kill me like oh my god he was closing the windows even though he was saying i'll let you go he was closing the windows to like prevent anyone hearing outside and so things like that where it's like you know if you feel like something is off um your brain might know

something that you don't even realize your intuition quote-unquote your instinct might be like there's some red flag but you're not even consciously aware what it is so i don't even realize your intuition, quote unquote, your instinct might be like, there's some red flag, but you're not even consciously aware of what it is. So I don't know, it's a great book, I recommend it. And it teaches you to kind of, you know, trust your gut, so to speak, on this kind of thing. So anyway, yeah, speaking of the red flags, who knows what the suspicious activity was, but it's just scary that they saw it coming and then it still happened. You know what I mean? Oh, my God. Okay.

Anyway, sorry for that tangent. So anyway, back to this. So these two women had been kidnapped earlier that year at work, and Trudy had called her son to report the suspicious car. Unfortunately, her body was found in a river several days later. She had been shot twice in the head. They never found Cheryl. So that one is still unsolved. And despite no solid links between the women, investigators were like, well, they're close together. They're around similar ages. Maybe they're related somehow, these crimes. And then two men eventually were convicted of Trudy's murder in 1996, and they could not connect these guys to Angie's disappearance. So it doesn't seem like they were related.

Okay. 21st of 1991, which is 17 days after Angie's abduction, the Springfield News Leader ran an article announcing that the multi-county crime squad was calling off the investigation. The squad had this rule that they would only remain on an investigation for five days unless they hit a lead, and that would kind of further along their investigation. But they had no leads, they had nowhere to go, So they were giving up, so to speak. And the case fell back on Clinton City Police, Henry County investigators and the FBI. And one investigator was quoted in the article saying, we have no evidence to indicate that Angela is not alive. But sometimes with this much passage of time, you wonder. Jesus.

Very depressing. Over time, the investigation. Jesus. Which is very depressing. Over time, the investigation slowed to a stop. There really were no leads, no clues, basically no hope. It was sort of like Angie had vanished without a trace, except Rob had witnessed her being taken, and then she had vanished. Like, it's just, like, totally dead end. I mean, obviously, it's an unsolved mystery, a.kolved mystery aka we don't get any closure at the end of this but um thank god that he even saw it i mean she could have just

gone fucking missing and no one would have a lead that's a great point yeah and it's sort of like a double-edged sword because on the one hand it's like well good he saw that but then on the other hand now he has to live with that trauma and guilt of like i could have done something even though obviously he couldn't have i think either way he would have thought i could have done something but at least this gave him like also like it's a good psa for see something say something because they were on the phone and she was like dude this guy's being fucking weird because even if it ultimately never got us answers, it definitely got us closer to an answer. Yeah. It gave us a big clue.

You know, now if maybe they're able to piece things together, maybe that'll come in handy. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like at the time, it's such a big clue. And then it just was like a dead end. Like they just had no way of getting any further, which is so frustrating. For what it's worth, Angie's mom, Mars Marsha said Rob did everything that could have been done but she still knew he blamed himself for losing Angie and basically carried this like crushing weight of guilt for not being able to save her and Marsha said nobody blamed Rob but she worried

that maybe he thought people secretly did blame him for not, you know, doing everything in his power to save her. Rob told interviewers that he still wakes up at night wondering where Angie is, wondering what happened, and wondering if anybody's still looking. He said, you just wonder all the time. I really, I can't talk about like a traumatic, i really i can't talk about like a traumatic unimaginable no yeah so like i said this case was featured in unsolved mysteries um and some viewers this is where it gets kind of interesting modern day so to speak in the reddit forums and all that good stuff because some people have had some trouble or like red flags with this whole story so one person in response to this unsolved mysteries episode said quote if rob's story is true then the guy was more than lucky he was daring to take

someone from a phone booth where they could have been talking to police for all he knew and also skilled to hide his license plate with mud and not getting stopped or drawing suspicion driving with one arm and wrestling Angie, killing her in silence, escaping the APB if there was one, not having someone see you in the highway, disposing the body in a way that no one finds it, eliminating the vehicle after the crime, and also not getting any questioning after the police and FBI investigate 1,600 possible hits. Right. So that's fair. But on the other hand, like clinton missouri is about an hour away from

the kansas border so it could very well have been a kansas car and when the police did the search of these 1600 vehicles these were missouri cars that they looked at maybe he drove from a different state and they just never even had a chance to locate that car. So do the police ever even look past county lines or state lines? No, I think they were just looking in Missouri, at cars in Missouri. And, you know, he said, like, oh, he would have gotten so lucky to not be investigated. But you hear stories all the time of people who were, when police do question the person who did it and they just let them go because there's not yeah they they just have nothing to hold them and it's like oh you just asked him a few questions they answered with the right answers

didn't seem like it was the guy so you know gotta let him go um so maybe he was maybe they were closer than they thought you know you never know um and so you know it could have been like there were there are a number of states nearby so it really would be kind of an impossible task to look at every, you know, green truck in like the number of states surrounding Missouri. I guess so. So, you know, it's it's another red flag. Some people have is why Rob and Angie both noticed such specific details about the truck but didn't see the license plate and that's something you had asked yeah and the theory that people you know defending this case or the people the theory people on the other side of this argument have

is maybe the plate was obscured by mud um if this were like a dirty truck that, you know, I feel like it was on purpose that it was covered. And it could have very well been intentional. Exactly. Otherwise, like that Redditor said, so lucky it was perfectly caked on. Perfectly covered. Exactly. Like very strange. And so that that's the other theory is like he probably hid the license plate if he was smart at all.

Yeah. And finally, one person in a forum tried to figure out why Angie would call Rob from only a few blocks away instead of just driving back to his house. You know, if she were only seven blocks away and they were going to hang out that night anyway, why didn't she go straight to his house? There's really no way to know that. I mean was babysitting his brother maybe she didn't want to bother them like who knows um and why she did that maybe you said it earlier but where was this actual phone booth like was it like just completely by itself or i'm thinking like it's like a 7-eleven parking lot let me check what the description was. It's the center of town.

Just a phone booth in the center of town. I feel like that means like some, there could have been a witness, but I guess it was 1130 at night. Yeah, and it's a small town, so it's hard to say. But yeah, there could be somebody may have seen something that they don't even realize is important,

you know, or relevant. Yeah. Especially if this guy was circling the block over and over again you know either could have been somebody who spotted it you know it's it's just to make it creepier in my mind this whole time he was circling the block and there were like other people on the street but if it was like a lone road by himself and he was just doing donuts and you're the only person to see it that does feel weird it feels like he wants you to see him like he's like yeah like he's baiting you or something and it's frustrating because like you know obviously hindsight is 2020 but like if she had been like this guy's circling the block i'm getting in my car and driving away it's like oh

this could have been maybe avoided but again like you know maybe not he would have just chased you down exactly exactly like there's no way to even say that it's just i'm sure this is what rob's brain goes through every day he thinks about it um just very very scary you know and again like read that book it's a great book um and it just helps you kind of understand why sometimes your your subconscious knows better how to keep you safe yeah um so let's see what else the question about whether why she was calling him we may never know unless Angie is found alive you know uh but like with any unsolved case everyone's left with more questions than answers which i think frustrates you and i quite a bit uh so over the years people reported sightings of angie in several states even

as far away as canada but there have been no solid leads and in an interview angie's mom urged anyone with information to put themselves in her place and come forward she said even if the guy who took her sees this if he would just call and let us know what he did with her. You know, I think any sense of closure would be a benefit to them at this point. Oh, yeah. Even if it's bad news. Yeah. So on April 14th, 2021, so, you know, about a year ago. Wow, that's not too long ago. Yeah, yeah, a little bit over a year ago, a Springfield, Missouri newspaper published an article on the case alleging that the abduction was not a random opportunistic attack, but was planned

all along. Now, this is where things get a little topsy turvy here because the current police captain suspects that Angie might have been mistaken with another Angela. Oh, shit. Whose father was an undercover informant busting up significant drug rings oh god yeah his theory is that perhaps they were targeting angela angela like a hitman was targeting angela but got the wrong angela thinking oh this is the daughter of that guy who's a police informant but really it was a different angela um and the

informant who also had a daughter named angela received a freaking letter made of cut out magazines threatening his daughter and he it was postmarked the day that angie was abducted oh shit so like talk about a theory somehow that just got totally slipped through the cracks until 2021 uh can you imagine other angela like now probably having heard that theory being like oh i wonder what kind of survivor's guilt she's got of like it was supposed to be supposed to be me i was in the right place yeah just the name mix up is so spooky and i mean i remember i covered a story about like remember that story where it was like multiple women named like susan were attacked and it turns out three susans or three susans and it turns out like the kit man

just got the wrong susans oh my god um so it reminds me of that but yeah so the informant received this like cliche like i'm gonna send you a picture of it, letter made from cutout magazine letters threatening his daughter who was also named Angela. So I'm going to send you this photo. You can definitely post this on Instagram as well. Okay, let me send this to the group. And I'm going to read it. Okay. Just sent it.

It says, hello, we know who you are. Some of the lines have been redacted. You can see it. Yeah. Hello, we know who you are some of the lines have been redacted you can see it yeah hello we know who you are people like you deserve what you get we know where your foxy daughter is at she will see us soon uh tell blank she has our deepest sympathy in her further loss goodbye uh and this was postmarked april 4th 1991 the exact date of angie's disappearance and sent to this informant who had a daughter named angela so there's this i think a very striking theory that oh hell yeah could have been the target and it was just a mix-up and they got the wrong girl and somehow this was overlooked for decades until like last year. And recently, an anonymous caller contacted investigators about the case, and they're hoping to hear more from the caller to chase a lead. And police promised the caller they can protect their identity. So I think this is a good sign because it shows like they're taking this really seriously. And they're trying to keep this person's information private so that they can follow up on this lead. So I'm really hoping that means they're going to, you know, be able to bring some closure to this case.

Investigators released this letter to social media, hoping to renew interest in the case, trigger people's memories, say, you know, if you have any sort of connection to this, even if you saw something and you don't realize what you may have seen. I was so, I was like, Blaise, did your grandparents live there in 1991? And he like no i was like damn it i was about to call them and say what did you see yeah truly like what did you hear who did you talk to anything did you know an angela like yeah any green trucks fishermen anything so one investigator on the case said that in 2021 which was nearly 30 years to the day after Angie's disappearance, they said, quote, this has not been a cold case ever as far as I'm concerned, and it's not going to be. So I'm really hoping they're able to put some answers out there and, you know, get some closure for the family and for Rob.

and for rob um and there's a quote in this article too um that says when she screamed this is rob when she screamed at me out the window i put it in reverse and started chasing him so just like how close he was i mean it's i mean he was close enough he could hear her and like i'm sure i can't even imagine i'm sure her fucking that was the last time he ever heard her and it probably is in his head every second. I didn't even think of that. That poor fucking guy. I know. I mean, at age 18.

And poor Angela too, by the way. Well, sure. Of course. But like that poor guy who like just had to like just go to work the next day and pretend like nothing was going on. It's, it's horrific. Just age 18 to have that be like your defining trauma for the rest of your life you know i was gonna say like a developmentally like and you haven't even really started like your uh your passage into like relationships and

now every relationship like i can't imagine how overprotective he probably is the people he cares about yeah yeah that must be a long lasting fear oh god um so you know what uh a man with a mustache beard wearing glasses overalls driving like a greenish yellow ford pickup from 1969 or 1970 with a window window decal of a fishing scene this was the year 1991 if you're like hey my grandpa had that truck he's certainly like it sounds like he's at least grandpa age now if he's still here so i mean that was 30 years ago and he was already a seemingly a grown man so yeah exactly and if it's anywhere nearby you know missouri Missouri or, I'm not sorry, I mean, Kansas or any of the other surrounding states, just, you know, if you're like, I recognize that decal. Maybe everyone go ask your grandpa and uncle, like, what kind of car did you drive? What kind of color truck did you drive in the 90s if you lived in the Midwest? Don't mind this clipboard. I'm just taking notes for my own personal.

Don't mind my phone on speakerphone with the current chief of police yeah don't mind me listening to and that's why we drink in the background as they tell me to to interrogate my poor grandpa yeah exactly boy anyway so it's just another tragedy um and i i am i'm always a little bit uh i don't know pepped up when they're when there's like a new a really recent update because yeah maybe you know after the somerton man thing and the golden state killer i'm like you know anything's possible there's hope there's definitely hope so that is the case of angela hammond wow i am mad that i i don't didn't have a theory for you i feel like usually when you say unsolved mystery i'm like prepared to try to crack the case it's hard because there really wasn't anything you know it's like this guy showed up just randomly stole a girl but maybe not so randomly. And we heard nothing. Nothing seemed to be relevant.

So anyway, that's that. Wow. Wow. Well, thanks, I guess. You're so welcome. How is your tummy feeling? It's okay. I only ate half of my chocolate because I don't want to overdo it, you know?

Right. Okay. You're starting to sound like RJ whenever he eats chocolate with his healthy belly he's like one piece of dark chocolate he's like a little treat for me i'm stuffed yeah a little baking chocolate like 95 cocoa it's like he texted me knowing that i would still be awake at 4 a.am and he was up just because and walking his dog. And I was like early, not like staying up. Right. Like he went to bed. No, he goes to bed at like a normal hour. Okay. I see. And I was, and he, but he wakes up at an abnormal hour because he like goes swimming for fun at 5am and shit. So, um, but he texted me walking his dog and I was

like, why are you, I know why I'm awake. Why are you awake? And he was like, just for fun. And I'm like, you're something's wrong. Something is, you need a brain doctor too, RJ. People think I'm crazy for staying up so late, but like I'm nowhere near as crazy as you for choosing to wake up that early. I agree.

Like if you can sleep. Keep going. Do it. Keep doing it. I'd like to sleep. Sometimes I'll wake up after like a full refreshing eight hours and I'm like, I could keep going. And then I do. I did that this morning because Blaze was back home from his trip and was like getting up with the baby.

And I was like, I can just keep sleeping. And I did. And it was great. Yeah. It's the best activity. I had an excellent nap yesterday and I and then I checked my alarm clock and I was like I mean I could turn this off and try again later and if I want to wake up then but I just kept going why not it was a good time Sunday you know

it was on this couch right here it was my it was my first nap on the couch oh and damn was it a comfy sleep i gotta say i kept going you've slept on that couch i think at my house too so now you're uh you got one of your own i know why did you i didn't even fold out i slept when it was in couch mode in couch mode yeah it's a very firm surface i used to sleep on that too when leona would nap in her room and i'd be i'd sleep on that too it's a it's a very firm surface it's a comfortable couch a grand old time we had a couch at the old pasadena house that we actually brought here when we first moved here and then we ended up selling it and i still kind of regret it it was the it was ugly as sin like it was the ugliest fucking couch i've ever seen but damn the the nap factor on that thing was incredible. Through the roof.

It was over six feet long. And so my whole body could lie on it without having to do anything. And all the pillows were firm but snug. And you felt so held and coddled. And you throw a little blanket on. Game over. So now I'm tired. Okay.

Well, we'll go then. game over so now i'm tired okay well we'll go then let's go do our after chat for uh for patreon and and complain more about being tired okay and then we'll take a nap or i will okay great you can take care of your baby i'll take my baby out of the bathtub oh yeah she's probably all pruney now okay and that's why we drink