And That's Why We Drink - E320 A Lucid Dreaming Banana Experience and the Famous Saint Jack-in-the-Box Ley Line

Episode Date: March 26, 2023

Welcome to episode 320, where Christine is mad at Em and Eva and has demanded to address it publicly, even though it was their dream selves who did her wrong. This week Em brings us a topic Christine has been asking for: Ley Lines! Then Christine covers the tragic cold case of Lauren Spierer. And do we need a pair of surveying stilts? ...and that's why we drink! Don't miss us in Ohio next week!andthatswhywedrink.com/live

hello everybody welcome to episode 320 where christine has said that she's mad at me and eva and i'm about to find out why with everybody else because apparently the only way that confrontation happens is when Christine addresses it publicly so I need an audience what's what's the situation um first let me figure out how to turn up the volume here because I can't hear you so you can yell no I just can't hear you well for some reason it's really quiet oh is it on me it's probably not you i tested my audio i'm sure it's not you for once it's probably not your fault okay okay well we'll just wing it um here's well no you can fix it. Okay. Here's the thing. What? You, okay, so in my dream last night.

Oh, fuck. What, Christine? Because I was about to say I had a great dream about you, but I guess we're officially balanced out now. You were mean to me in my dream last night. Well, you probably deserved it. I don't know what to tell you. It's probably because you knew you would say some, you'd pull some bullshit like this in the real world. And so dream you'd like tried to get some, I don't know, maybe I was trying to get some revenge early on. I don't know. In my dream, we went to a show, a live show, and you and Eva decided to tell me right before the show that you had created a whole new plot point and a new video for the show.

Wow. I hope I died in that world. I hope you murdered me. I tried. And you were like, well, too late now. And I was like, well, what is it? Can I see it? And you're like, no, it's fine. And you wouldn't tell me. And I was like, so distraught. And then you turned to me. And to be fair, this happened in a TV show I watched last night, which is why I think you said it in my dream. But you turned to me and you're

like, honestly, I don't care if you're upset. And was like oh my god and so then I cried and then I was like I have to go back to the green room because I accidentally wore Blaze's sweatpants to the show obviously yeah it's not a good look so I went one time I went to work and forgot shoes so you know we all do it okay one time you went to the airport and forgot shoes because I took them I don't know if I forgot. It just certainly happened that way. And so I tried to go in the green room and the security guy grabbed my arm so hard it left a bruise. And he was like, you're not allowed back there. And I was like, why? And they were like, because Em and Eva are back there. And I was like, wow, I'm getting really shunned out of this group.

I feel like, okay, go ahead. I was gonna say so far if i were a dream interpreter i think you just miss us and you are feeling i feel left out i think you're feeling some fomo when eva and i hang out i think so too and uh and then poor eva got all upset and i was like i was like don't be mad at yourself. It's Evansville. That is probably how it would have been handled. Unsurprising all around. I'm wondering where this becomes a dream versus reality. Okay, so then, get this. I suddenly became lucid in the dream.

Oh, so and then you decided to keep being mad? You're such an asshole. No, because then I was was like this will be interesting because remember last time when i became lucid in a dream and asked you like what's your message for yourself you were like i don't know and i was like well that's not helpful so today i changed up the wording uh-huh and i said i said i know what will get M to respond. What? So I said, M, if you could send future M a message, what would it be? Oh, fuck yeah. And you were like, ooh. Me and all worlds, we all tingled at the same time knowing we were going to hear this.

And guess what your message was to future you? What, the middle finger? What? what no but that would have that's my message to you your message was okay tell future m to brush your teeth and eat a banana i literally ate a banana today no you didn't that was my breakfast before I came, before I started. Okay, well, apparently you heard. It took me, that's why it took me longer to get on because I was in a banana experience. Well, apparently I already knew that. Wow. And I, by the way, I know that sounds like, that was the first time I've had a banana in like months, like just so we're clear.

Yeah, I don't know where it came from. It was like, eat a banana. And I was like, okay, I guess I'll tell was like eat a banana and i was like okay i guess i'll tell em to eat a banana um but i guess he already did interesting i'm a little upset that you forgot to ask where the note is so i did but like oh i didn't ask because i was like you know what there is we were first of all in a different city like at a show so i don't know where we were so i couldn't be like oh m where's the note in your apartment because we were on stage and so i was like this is not the time um but the last time i went to your apartment and said where's the note you were like what note and i was like don't play these games with me m oh well then there then dream

me is fucking with you because there's a note for sure. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to find it next time. I'm going to say. I think you shouldn't rely on me. I think you should just like float here. Why do I feel like I need to ask you? Because you in my brain are just a projection of how I think you would respond. So it's not like you're going to tell me. I don't know.

So and then I flew out the window because I was like, you know, fuck this. And I told I told you and Eva to do the show by yourselves. But at this point, I knew it was a dream. So I was like, this is kind of funny. So I was like, go do the show by yourself. Bye. And I left. And you were like, wait.

And I was like, don't worry. It's not real. And I flew out the window. And then I surfed on the ocean like a Pokemon. Yeah, it was cool. How did you wake up and feel not exhausted from that? I was just a lot of work. So mad at you. Oh, you're just like fueled by rage. Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. But the saddest part is I went up to Eva after I asked you for your future

message. And I said, Eva, what do you want to tell your future self? And she went, I don't want to tell her anything. And went why i was like why and she goes because i'm still so upset with myself for the for for uh like leaving you out of the scene or whatever that we filmed and i was like eva first of all this is my subconscious creating you saying that which is so fucked up like this it would be the most eva thing where her alternate realms like her and other worlds is feels guilty about something you came up with and then i was like don't feel sad and i was like it's not your fault and then i was like it's m's fault even though you know it wasn't really but um and so i said don't feel bad and then she was like well i have work to do and then

went away um so sorry eva once again this is, remember last time when I asked Eva for a message, she went, oh, a message. Interesting. What would I say? And I was like, well, I'm, oh, wait, I woke up because I didn't, you know, you got to be speedier. Yeah, you got to be quick with it. You got to have an answer.

Yeah, but you said brush your teeth and eat a banana. And I was like, okay. Next time, if you have the wherewithal, can you ask future me what sandwich i should eat that day and then from beyond i'll make the sandwich of your dreams now that but it won't if if fuck fuck me if i say like anchovies or something absolutely not i don't think even my subconscious could formulate those words coming out of your mouth like in my wildest dreams i really don't so you would envision me going i would be like thrown out of the dreamscape just for that not to totally make this like just so

beyond dark but i do wonder um because i don't know the concept i actually don't know if it's enough information even do an episode on i don't know it's actually not really paranormally so it wouldn't fit anyway but there's a uh there was some piece of like really like dark art like a like a um uh like a what do you say what do you call it like a showcase or something and there this interactive art piece where this guy had a model, or maybe she was the model. Maybe the artist was the model. And she just stood there and she left a bunch of like, really,

a bunch of random items on a table next to her, standing in the middle of the room. And the whole art was for other people to do whatever they wanted to her with the items on the table. She the artist she was the artist yeah and the it ended up becoming like you know this horrific i mean it was horrible like people like she there was like blood it got like dangerous it got really dangerous like people were like holding knives up to her like it was really crazy. But it was like almost a psychological experiment of like if someone gave you the freedom to do whatever you wanted. With no repercussions.

With no repercussions. What would you do? And so it's interesting that in your dream when you're with me and Eva, all you can think to do is like be mad. Pick a fight. Like you could have like pushed me into like a pool full of chocolate pudding but you were just like i'm gonna have a fucking problem to be fair i was really to be fair once i turned lucid i was like oh okay none of this is real so then i had more fun but before that it was a normal dream where i was just like crying and like sad oh and then I got stuck on the stage and blaze

of sweatpants and um I wonder what that means I looked out at the audience and it was like empty so we know what that means I mean this is all our biggest fears come to light um and then I got locked out of the green room so you know it's it's all you know very clearly a normal dream and then when I became lucid the first thing i did was there was this like bald man and i was like oh my god i'm in a dream and he goes what and i said i'm in a dream and he's like i'm sorry can i help you oh shit and i kissed the top of his head and i said how about that and he was like okay and he walked away and i was like i gotta go find m and see what a future message is how about them apples this is crazy he was not into it

well that also that freaks me out because i really there's nothing eerier than when people in the dream you fucking in theory conjured them and they're confused by you that's why a i love the movie inception and b lucid dreaming is the coolest thing because you can see like people you've never seen before just strangers and like do whatever you want and see how they react and usually in my world there are my dreams they react like what does it matter with you and i'm like this is my feelings it's like i came up with you and you're still judging me like i know but it's kind of freeing because you're like i can literally just like pour a bottle of water on your head and like it won't have any real world consequences but i do get to see how you would react you know if we learned anything about ourselves today it's that

we both know how to hurt our own feelings even while unconscious in an unconscious state how how sad um also anyway i was gonna say earlier that I had a dream that you got. Oh, hang on. It's one of those things where I need to remember it immediately or it's never going to stick. So we were at a show too. Wow. That says a lot about us. We were at our show.

And for some reason, instead of a green room, this is like beyond a nightmare. Instead of a green room, they couldn't find us a green room. And so we had to sit in the audience and wait for our own fucking show. And we were just going to like stand up and like sidestep out of the chairs and then like go up on stage. Okay. That sounds kind of like my dream. Because when I wasn't allowed in the green room, I had to stand amongst the crowd. And I was like, oh, God, this is so awkward. And they were like, you can stand in this alley instead of a green room well huh well so then in i don't remember what happened but you got like um offered to be like on a true

crime panel or something and i kept saying we were doing the thing where before a show we just kept looking at the phone at our phone and like watching how many more minutes until we have to go on and uh i was like i don't even want to do this i just want to like go back to the hotel and like and hang out with you and like help you work on your panel thing but every minute like dragged because i kept hearing because we were in the audience we kept hearing people saying like only only four more minutes and then the panic would in, but the minute lasted like what felt like a year. And then all of a sudden you hear, oh, only three more minutes. Oh no. So then I said to you, cause I overheard other people saying it. I went, oh my God, only three more minutes. And everyone, because I said it, I guess a bunch of people got excited that like I was confirming only three more minutes

left for the show. So people were getting really excited. And all of a sudden I said it, I guess a bunch of people got excited that I was confirming only three more minutes left for the show. So people were getting really excited. And all of a sudden, I just shouted, never mind. And everyone at the same time went synchronized, completely silent. They sat down in their chairs and stopped clapping and just looked away as if they couldn't see me. Ew. It was so creepy.

But also in my brain at the time, I was like wow why have we have such a supportive audience where like they could tell i was nervous and then they just went we see nothing and uh well that's nice i feel like your dream um was had a better better relationships and better you know everybody seemed um healthier psychologically speaking they our entire audience like harmonized on appreciating and respecting a boundary that's pretty beautiful um but we still had to perform um anyway that sucks uh welcome to the guy on youtube who um time codes when we start talking are you having a good time just like enduring this currently this intro is about like something you know like dreams and i mean you know it's at least it's dreamy it's not just talking about like what we ate for dinner

you know it's at least slightly i would i would i would hope slightly more interesting than the usual intro i don't know i don't know we started hot with you being mad. I was mad. And then it very quickly devolved into like, oh, okay. We're not mad. It's just kidding. Oh, yeah. It was all in my own brain. So, yeah. What a shock.

Anyway. Anyway, happy 320. Not 420. But in 100 episodes, I'll catch you with that one. Oh, that'll be a fun. We have to come up with a topic for 420. Okay. What to do?

Should we just start going? I don't know. Okay. I'm ready. In case anyone was wondering, the reasons why we drink is because we. I've squashed my beef with you. That's why. That's why.

Until tonight when I decide to retaliate, I guess, and duke it out with you in the dream world. I feel so bad when I have dreams like that because I wake up like, God, what is wrong with me? Like my subconscious just creates enemies out of people in my sleep. Like I victimize myself in my dreams. It's so embarrassing. You're just always so ready to be on the defense. Play like woe is me. Yeah.

It's like, what is the matter with me? Get a grip. Get matter with me get a grip get a grip get it together k.i.t keep it together um k.i.t hang on i'm readjusting i have if if the if the world could see what is happening at this desk right now i can't even be disgusted with me well exactly because the camera is perfectly placed. But let's just say, like, exactly right here is the only clean part of this desk. And it's just like I'm surrounded at the moment. Oh. Sounds normal to me.

It's just chaos over here. Okay. Do you know what today's topic is? You ought to. You better know. We've been talking about it for like three weeks now. Two weeks. Crossroads. Oh wait, it's still Crossroads?

Which led into me doing a spinoff last week. Hecate. And the other spinoff, which you you requested i don't know if you fully is it liminal spaces no uh hmm how to give you a clue i know i requested it already they're technically liminal spaces they're technically liminal spaces. They're... Lay lines! Okay. I knew I would start it with an L, and it was

mostly because you were making an L with your hand, so I felt like I was cheating, but oh my god, I'm so excited. Okay, I'm ready. Thank you for picking it up as I was about to drop all faith. I was like, I'm just gonna say it. You looked pretty sad and I'm sorry and I I I do regret my actions well I'll see you in my dreams tonight we'll

we'll duke it out we'll talk it through hey if anybody else is coming to the show in our dreams tonight uh you can maybe see us duke it out on stage it'll be dramatic we can you could also we could see you respecting our boundaries please or maybe like helping us find a green room so we don't have to sit in the audience and that would be nice ruin the reveal yeah um all right so yes we're talking about ley lines today christine um which we have touched on in previous episodes but i don't think we've done a full deep dive now would be a bad time to check our episode guide and find out we have. So we're going to move along as if that's not the case.

To be fair, I really don't know anything about them. So I imagine if you had done an episode on it, I would have at least retained something because I think it's such an interesting concept. So I don't think we've done it. I don't think we've done it either. I think we've covered a part of it, which I am am gonna rehash

but um but that's it um okay so the definition would you like to give the definition or would you like me to give it i don't really know it oh i think i give you more credit than maybe in at least in this topic you deserve no it's like I think I say the word a lot because my family. Because Zach Bagans says it a lot. Because my family has used dowsing rods for like generations. And so I know that that's oftentimes what they're used for. But I've never used them for that. So I don't really know beyond that that's what they're used for.

Like that's the extent of my understanding. Well, today we'll get a definition from the energetic plane i don't know i'm just making shit up i mean you're not off you're so there are lines around the world they look they could look like a latitude longitude situation but there are lines all over the world that when they intersect their lines of energy in general but when they intersect that is where they have concentrated energy sitting at these particular spots on the line. And a lot of times,

the thing that's super creepy about these ley lines is the concentrated pockets of energy where these lines intersect often end up being on a map. You'll realize that those spots are also the locations of sacred landmarks. So if you look at a ley line, all of a sudden, you know, the Bermuda Triangle is one of the intersections of two ley lines, or a lot of haunted places happen to be intersections of ley lines. And so they're thought to be incredibly more charged because of that and

now we're we're talking about it so examples of this are great pyramids of giza stonehenge uh sedona arizona the vortex is out there the megaliths in montana the great wall of china bermuda triangle um pretty much if you can think of a spiritual landmark or a historic landmark or sometimes just ancient ruins in general, they all end up being intersections on a ley line. That is so cool. And nobody knows why. Some areas where these lines intersect are also said to perfectly align with star constellations, which I didn't know um but i think that's pretty bananas uh and theoretically these lines connect spiritual locations and their intense energies which amplify them into vortexes so vortexes or vortices what am i thinking of vortices

is not a math term? Whatever. Vortexes. I mean, you're getting into dangerous territory here, friend. Math term. I don't know. Vertices? Oh, vert... Yeah. A vertice.

Okay. Well, we're not going to talk about that today. Let's just say that. Vortexes. Vorti? I don't know. Oh, okay. So these places are often said to be heavily active with spirits

because of their alleged high energy and the ley lines and intersections have also allegedly been used for spiritual ritual and or religious purposes so um they just seem to always have they seem throughout history to have been important at some point um it's thought that people this is another weird one is that some people say well how could we have known to build all these landmarks on these exact intersecting lines and one theory is that these people us our ancestors are subconsciously in tune with these spaces and where we feel compelled to certain areas, which is why we build spots there. The ley lines even predate the druids. They go by many names. In South America, they're called spirit lines. In Australia,

the aboriginals call it dream lines. And in China, they're called dragon lines. Whoa, all of those are really fun and creative. I'm going to talk about the dragon lines real quick. I'm not going to go in depth. I was going to do a whole little blurb about it because it sounded super cool, but it really, we quickly derail. So this was the best I could offer is that fun fact. In China, people believe that these ley lines are the paths that dragons once took to travel across the world. That's beautiful. And here is a quote. It's long,

but it's worth it. When this path of the dragon runs in straight lines for any distance, because ley lines are in theory straight theory straight lines with minimal obstacles. When this path of the dragon runs in straight lines for any distance, the energy that builds up, or like the momentum of it, can become a danger to all living things. So by erecting a barrier, such as a stone circle, a burial mound, or a building on such a line, the dangerous energy is diffused into the barrier. In order to break up these straight lines of energy, the Chinese buildings were built with eaves and roofs of varying heights along a street. Direction men were given the duty of mapping out

the lines of the dragon's path and decided in what order things should be placed within houses and landscaping to keep the good influences of the energy and dissipate the bad. Today, this practice is referred to as feng shui. And the influence of these dragon lines was considered so serious that any landscape that was found to be inharmonious with the path of the dragon was respectfully altered. That's incredible. I think that's so powerful. I had no idea that that was feng shui i i was i was reading that and then i got to this is referred to as feng shui and

i went what yeah it took me a second but i i've always been fascinated by feng shui and i'm a big believer in it um i don't know if you saw that I've altered the apartment. Yes. Because I was like, the feng shui in here is off. Understood. I don't know. I just, I feel naturally like I understand the flow of energy. And I follow some TikTokers who, like this one man from China who talks about feng shui and energy flow. And every time he does, I'm like, yes, I get it.

I could plan out his little, like I can see what he, does, I'm like, yes, I get it. I could plan out his little, like, I can see what he, I don't know. I just, I get it for some reason. It just clicks in my mind. Um, so I've just always been really fascinated by that. Well, that was the, um, that's all I'm going to say about Feng Shui because otherwise there were a lot of, a lot of history. Oh, I bet. So I'm going to skip it today. But I needed to say that part at least because it was just so cool. That's so cool.

So these lines have been around and they're multicultural. A lot of people have different beliefs for them, but they are important. Or they're considered important in a lot of places. This is another fun fact in the uk the most famous lane line is called the saint michael's line and it is first mentioned in a book in 1969 um but this teeters into sacred geometry which like you just heard me try to figure out math i'm not gonna get into this we don't even know what a rhombus is. Exactly. And I got a D in real geometry, so I don't know if I should be teaching sacred geometry. But the St. Michael's line, it's 350 miles long.

And it's called the St. Michael's line because it runs through and intersects so many sites that are weirdly dedicated to St. Michael. Bizarre. Like, it's very odd. Also, there's a St mary's line which like weirdly intertwines with saint michael's line um and even the saint michael's line it happens to all lead towards and face towards the sunrise like if you look like the um i don't know how to just with like the solstices and stuff i don't know how how they do it but apparently the saint michael's line directionally leads and always faces um the

sunrise that happens on may 5th so on may 5th the sun rises in a certain direction and the line is always pointed in that direction and may 5th happens to be the day that people celebrate St. Michael. Feast day. Okay. It's very odd. And St. Mary and St. Michael are somehow intertwined. A lot of people say on the St. Michael's line, they can feel masculine energy and it's more connected to the sun or during the day.

And the Mary line feels more feminine and is connected to the sun or during the day and the merry line is feels more feminine and is connected to the moon so wow in fact there um and then i don't know how else to say this it's gonna jar you for a second but hang with me um there is a place in yorkshire called the swastika stone have you heard of this no okay so this is not um this was back when swastika was but swastika had an original meaning before it was you know you know just completely bastardized yeah yeah um so this there's this etching in a stone in yorkshire that i guess they say kind of looks like a swastika i i it's a very um here'll send you, I have a picture of it that I can send you. It kind of looks like that.

There's other rumors that it's actually someone just drew a boomerang, which I feel like. Just drew a boomerang and they're like, it's a swastika. And he's like, no, it's a boomerang. Yeah. Like talk about like having the worst name for a landmark. And I feel like even if someone squinted their eyes and thought boomerang, I be like please name me the boomerang stone you know please anything but so this is an etching uh but it's from like 2 000 years ago and it has stayed um it's kind of faded at this point but um it's still there and what's weird about this stone is it's said to be, you know, very powerful and have a lot of energy connected to it.

And if you look at it on a lane line map, 20 different intersections happen over the stone. So it's considered a nexus location in lane lines. So this is, so it's small. It's small. Oh, I thought it was going to be like a massive thing that you see like it sounds like a stone that when like it's carved to be the shape but it's literally someone just in stone it looks like when it was wet cement someone drew a boomerang into a got it you know it looks to me like one of those nerf yeah like a nerf boomerang or like one of those in um in spongebob like a

yeah like a flower or something whatever it is those kind of seaweed-y type things it looks like it's like kelp that's like moving with the water so it's bent and thus becomes the shape of a swastika it's the only thing that's i mean it's worth mention though because it is from either the bronze age or even further back it could be from the iron age it's considered only thing that's i mean it's worth mention though because it is from either the bronze age or even further back it could be from the iron age it's considered a prehistoric rock at the time uh as we were just kind of you know towing with is that uh swastikas did not always mean something terrible in fact nazis picked it because it like symbolized freedom disgusting uh but you know they've obviously ruined what it can mean and ancient civilizations this symbol of at least

multi-directional you know that's kind of all it really was is it pointed to the northeast south and west all at the same time um and apparently in a lot of ancient civilizations it usually referred to the sun so it's interesting that it's on a rock and it's it usually referred to the sun so it's interesting that it's on a rock and it's facing the looking up to the sun so we really with it's been lost to time what the actual meaning of it was but what's interesting in ley line theory is that 20 different lines all intersect on that's amazing and so they think it's just very you know electrically charged right Right. Okay. Now moving away from ever having to say the word swastika again.

So here is the beginning of how ley lines came to be, or the theory at least. So in 1921, which ley lines are only as old as 1921, but I think was this right around, was this one of the first waves of spiritualism oh the 1880s maybe maybe it was the end of the first wave but i think uh this is the second one because right because um world war ii or world war one i'm sorry had just slowed like world war one yes you're right so it was the end of the second wave right yes i believe so. So this is in the UK in 1921 and a man named Alfred Watkins. He is an amateur archaeologist, which I love. Me too, by the way. I love that a hundred years later, archaeologists are still making sure we know that he's not one of them.

Right, right. He's like, I don't know what you're talking about um so he was standing on a hilltop i think he they also said he might have been on a horse at one point but he ended up on a hilltop with or without the horse um and when he was looking out over the landscape he noticed that he could see several historical sites in front of him and they all happened to line up perfectly with each other oh okay and the line seemed to intersect if he were to draw them in his head they seemed to intersect at specific landmarks and his first uh draft of this theory he called the intersecting spots terminal points okay um and he was like it's interesting that there's a

bunch of terminal points and all these paths i'm seeing all intersect at different landmarks around me so he bought an ordnance survey map which fun fact ordnance survey maps were like trying to become like like a like i don't know how else to say it except they were trying to market themselves to people that weren't even surveyors they were just like we want everyone to have a ordnance survey map and so they were like in this weird phase of actually trying to like have the common man buy them for disseminate them to the public yeah yeah maybe they like printed too many i don't totally know they actually ordered too many from Kinko's. They were like, get rid of these.

Sorry, I meant they drew too many. Am I wrong? But no, yeah, I wonder. There wasn't a lot going on to do. We didn't have Google Maps back then. Maybe they were like, here, this is your map of the county. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

So anyway, it happened to fall. So then I saw like one website which i did not keep in my research but i think someone was trying to like throw a conspiracy theory twist in this of like this is all the ordinance surveyors like role like they were trying to get us out there like they were trying to make it sound like the only reason we have ley lines is because some like land surveyor decided that it was like a marketing ploy to like get people to buy these fucking maps. OK. Yeah.

Like Halloween was just created by the candy corporations and ley lines were just created by the land purveyor. So anyway, I thought that was funny. But anyway, so he notices all these lines when he's on this hilltop. He goes back and buys an ordnance survey map which i guess is just like so available these days yeah they're just like on clearance probably it's like it's next to the gum at the grocery like it's just check out just pick one up on your way out um and he looks at the land again that he was at to make sure that he wasn't you know losing it and he tracks all the landmarks and he draws a

line from landmark to landmark and he goes holy shit there are all these straight paths um and these sites which he was calling um uh terminal terminal points he's now officially called them lay markers that's his new word for them. Snazzy. And he realized that not only were some of these lay markers ancient ruins, but some of them were also like naturally made. So it was interesting to him that there were naturally made and man-made sites that were all still intersecting. That is interesting. So some of the natural sites were like mounds, riverbanks, hilltops. That is interesting. has the lay hunters manual to help people find them themselves but his most famous one was his first book called the old straight track and uh he calls in this book he calls the straight lines

lays for the first time okay um i guess because they are connected to lay markers um so the name lay which i thought this was like such a fun fact and if anyone is about to go like do spooky trivia here is something you might need to know he called them lays because he realized all of the sites that were connected were going through different towns that all ended in ley what like there was like sudley and dudley i'm just coming up with fucking things done with ley but like that was the only reason is that they all happened to end with L-E-Y. And he was like, oh, okay, so Leys. What?

Isn't that funky? That's wild. And apparently Leys also means a clearing in the woods. Okay. That would have made a little more sense to me. But that's a very wild fun fact. That would have made a little more sense to me. But that very wild fun fact.

It's also it is. I mean, to be fair, like it doesn't mean every site. Right. Ends in L.E.Y. or the town ends in L.E.Y. But he noticed an abnormal amount. But then again, like you're in the fucking UK. I feel like everything ends with either lay or shire. Yeah, true, true, true, true, true. Anyway, so he called them lays which also mean a

clearing in the woods which eerily also makes sense because he's noticing all these clearings in the woods that make that shouldn't be there um or shouldn't be adding up like this so the original paths he lined up could be seen as clearings from only a certain height and so that's why nobody else had noticed these patterns before, because he just happened to be on that one hilltop and saw all these things come together. Without a horse. I don't know if the horse mattered.

Maybe those six feet didn't really do much for him. The horse mattered. We'll say a horse. We know the horse matters. I don't know. Either bring stilts next time you go to a hilltop or something, but get yourself high enough okay either in some way he was able to get to bring stilts don't don't bring stilts I foresee it all of our all of our listeners tumbling down a hill

attached to wooden sticks I don't think stilts are the answer, but yeah, climb a hill. That much I can approve. Get yourself one of those ladders that like pop out so you can stand on it without another person down there. You know, just get yourself to a certain height. And when you look around, apparently that's how he was able to see this pattern that nobody else had picked up on before. Cool. Alfred himself believed that he actually stumbled upon ancient routes or roads that date back to the Neolithic era. Whoa. And with these routes, he thinks that his ancestors would use lay markers as navigation points because originally back then, this area was just super dense with forest.

It was really hard to get through. But in these certain clearings you were able to look around and at least see from that vantage point i mean as you just said google maps wasn't a thing so your best way of knowing if you're going in the right direction is like oh is that church supposed to be to my left is this studley or dudley that I've just stopped in? Whose horse is that? But so it was, it was, he thinks he just stumbled upon roads that originally intersected at parts where you could get, go to that intersection and look around and be able to see other intersections. So you always knew where you were. And it was a navigation tool.

That is so interesting. Okay. He did not believe that these ley lines had any cosmic energy to them. He did not. He was not the one who pushed that there was a mystical lore to this stuff. He really, as again, an amateur archaeologist, he was like, wow, I found old navigation routes. That's really cool. And that was kind of the end of it for him. So I hate to break it to you, but ley lines weren't supposed to be cosmic. I kind of like that, though, because it's like grounded more in reality.

Yeah. Yeah. What is what was he an amateur? What an amateur archaeologist? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like it's it's grounded more in like science, you know, at the start.

Yeah. And it does follow suit with what people were doing in the neolithic era which is where he says these roots might have dated back to um because they were known to create riverbanks and ditches and and intentionally set up navigation landmarks so that way if you got lost you knew where you were um so even though he didn't think of these as mystical lines here's a quote even though he didn't quote a hidden network of energy lines across the earth quickly fired the imagination of the upcoming new age movement so all he did was kind of set the tone and then the new age movement hit and everyone ran with it so laid

the line and then they said let's run for it paved the way yeah so in the 1920s and 1930s there was a real um uprising of ley line enthusiasm love it uh after alfred's book came out and then it kind of died down again and the real fascination hit in the 50s through the 70s oh so there was a writer it's a french name so i don't know how to say it right but i think it's aim a-i-m-e ame i have no idea ame michelle and he suggested that uh in france there were a lot of ufo sightings and they all happened to all the sightings. If you mapped them, happened to all be concentrated on this one grid with a bunch of lines intersecting. And he considered these intersecting lines or intersecting spots on this grid where UFOs were seen. I don't know why, but he gave them their own name and called

them orthotenes okay okay i don't know i don't know he called them orthotenes and it was spots on a ufo flight ley line map that ufos had been spotted and they all weirdly made a grid oh that's creepy also there was one ufo abductee who had heard all these theories and he started running with it and he said that he thought ufos used the ley lines that we already had um like if you looked at any map ufos were aware of our ley lines and they were using them to give their ships power and to navigate their way around Earth. Ew! In 1961, there was a Royal Air Force pilot or ex-Royal Air Force pilot named Tony Wedd, and he suggested that prehistoric societies made these ley lines to communicate with UFOs.

So he's now implying it's not just that UFOs and other, you know, cosmic beings know about our ley lines, but our prehistoric ancestors knew something we don't know when it came to communicating with extraterrestrials. They were in cahoots. Okay. And they intentionally created these ley lines for others to communicate with us. Got it. Other UFOlogists also thought that ley lines could be landing zones for aliens. And they were able to, like, read that on a map better than we knew how. Another theory is one person talked to a bunch of UFO abductees and realized that all of them happened to live at ley line intersections. No, no, no, no no no no that is upsetting and uh another theory is that these ley lines could symbolize portals that aliens used to use

to visit us and we just don't know how to unlock them ourselves and it's probably for the best probably for the best i think it's even um jumping off that ley lines are also now being theorized to just be simply portals to other universes not just other worlds but to other realms and we don't know how to access it i want to open it now i changed my mind all of a sudden pandora's box got the better of you i know it doesn't take much. So now we're in 1969 and ley lines have been the talk of the town in the UFO world, mainly the UFO world compared to the spiritual world. So it really started in UFOlogist's hands. And in 1969, this one guy named John, I think Mitchell or Michelle. It'd be weird if two people with the name Michelle were involved here.

But he wrote a book called The View Over Atlantis, which apparently during the hippie movement, this was a huge book people were reading. They loved that shit, you know. Did they? I don't remember hearing about this one. The hippies? Yeah. Not this one book? I don't remember hearing about this one. You don't remember the hippies? Yeah. Not this one book. I don't remember.

But through his book, not only were ley lines now being talked about in the UFO world, but also for people who are all into Atlantis. Okay. This also, through Atlantis, he also started talking about spiritual dimensions and other worlds that either we've come from or go to. And he says that maybe these ley lines are connected to that and their paths to alternate dimensions. I love that. Which, obvious, I totally get why hippies were into that. Totally. Imagine being so high, like the highest you've ever been, and someone telling you, there are these lines that if you map it out, you can ascend to other realms.

Like, oh, my God. From an archaeologist. Yeah. It's from Alfred. You just have to leave the amateur out of it because that's not relevant. It's from Fred. It's science. So John Mitchell, he went on to try and officially map these ley lines, uh, to go with

his book, I guess. And he suggested that people help him find these ley lines with dowsing rods. Aha. Now, before I get any further, I want to say one fun fact about Alfred, which I think is just so cute because remember he didn't believe in any of this cosmic stuff um he just was really into looking through the looking through land looking at maps and because for one of those maps what are those maps called ordnance survey he was a sucker for an ordnance survey map you know some of us are well he was such an enthusiast and he was so stoked that he discovered ancient roads that he ended up kind of coming out with his own campaign to encourage people to buy their own ordinance survey maps and to go looking for the ley lines in their area and during the first wave of like interest in this

in the 1920s 1930s it was apparently a popular pastime for people to go out and it encouraged people to take walks and learn about their local area pokemon go or like uh geocaching where it's like go outside he was the original pokemon master yes so cute but uh yeah he it was it was very precious that he was like encouraging people to learn about their local history and he was like where are the ancient ley lines for you what sites did you find on your walk it's like a pbs kids show where they're like where's your ley line say it now well i just think it was very sweet that he i mean i only think of alfred as like an 80 year old man at the youngest and i just imagine him being like the youngest go on kids take your map with you

and maybe this is where that one guy in a blog thought that there was a conspiracy with the ordnance survey map i'm starting to see it now he's like why did he create a campaign to make people leave their house maybe he just had the best interest of people's heart health and and i don't know you know what it's kind of giving randonautica there we go i love that m it's kind of just you know walk around find what you find it might be spooky might not might just be historical and fun god about i completely forgot about randonautica because that was something that all of us are going to just like scream in the middle of the night one day when we have flashbacks about covet i think it was like oh it was right in the midst wasn't it it was a genius whoever came up with randonautica

i think they like had had it as an app or something for a lot longer but it really blew up during covet what a genius way to get people to like leave their house while socially distancing activities yeah anyway he's the alfred of our time i don't know where he is but anyway so alfred was like go on kids go out and explore and it became like this thing that people did in the 1920s and 1930s but now we've got this john mitchell fella in 1969 he wrote this book about atantis. He's talking about spiritual dimensions. And now he is also encouraging people to go find ley lines, except as I just said, his tactic was with dowsing rods. So which I feel like that was more the campaign you would have ran with. You would have been like, I'm now absolutely going outside for the first time.

For the first time ever ever probably yeah you've done it so uh his book and this venture of finding ley lines with dowsing rods this led to um this was kind of the beginnings of i guess really running with the concept that ley lines are made out of energy because i, I was going to ask. Because I think in UFO world, people just saw that these lines were weird and invisible to a map unless you drew them yourself. And that was mysterious enough. But once he brought dowsing rods into this and like you can find them through energy. Right.

Then all of a sudden that was so 1969 is the year where ley lines became energetically charged interesting or where people determined that that's it's when it became part of the lore okay got it um so once he basically set the scene of like hey ley line equals you know very charged energy. Now the supernatural worlds in terms of like the paranormal, everyone in the paranormal world is involved. They're writing books, they're going to seminars, they're doing the things, they're buying the dowsing rods. And now we've got ley lines involved in dowsing to UFO crop circle studies to very quickly led into like numerology and spiritual activity and thus witchcraft and

it really all exploded after that especially because right at 1969 now we're in the 70s where people are it's right before satanic panic so a bunch of people are you know exploring the yeah exploring so uh many ancient sites on ley lines happened to also be crossroads. As I said, two whole episodes ago. And as I mentioned, now three episodes in a row, a lot of crossroads happened to be burial sites for, quote, restless spirits. And these spots quickly became known as haunted locations because a lot of these crossroads intersected on Ley Lines.

So on top of them being haunted because of all the other spiritual stuff I've been saying for two weeks about Crossroads, add to the mix that it's also sitting on ley lines and right at the height of ley lines equaling spiritual energy. So no wonder Crossroads took me three fucking episodes. Seriously. So I can't believe I almost like just didn't do that topic. Yeah. You were like, I think I might touch on it next week. And then three weeks later, here we are. Here we are.

So some crossroads actually later became known as Black Dog Lines because these crossroads sat on ley lines that happened to be known as very energetically charged. sat on ley lines that happened to be known as very energetically charged, and people were known to have spiritual activity or spiritual encounters on these roads, mainly at night seeing ghostly black dogs. Oh, how weird and specific. Which is the beginning of ley lines now having a darker tone to spiritualism, or a darker tone to spiritualism or a darker tone to ghosts okay because i mean realistically

if i'm playing like such a skeptic a crossroad is just a fucking crossroad in the middle of the road and at night i'm sure there's some like stray dogs that happen to be next to crossroads you mean it makes sense if you think like okay well if a dog is walking along a road and then there's four roads, like the possibilities that a person or a dog could be walking toward an intersection like that. It's pretty likely. And if you're just completely shrouded and like everything has a spiritual connection, if you're walking at an intersection, you can say, I'm on a crossroad. Chances are it could be a ley line. You can say I'm on a crossroad. Chances are it could be a ley line.

And also like it could be a ley line because if ley lines by Alfred's theory, like the true archaeology theory of like ley lines are paths from point to point. Hello. Of course, a crossroad is a clear path going from point to point. So there's a chance that if you're on an intersection late at night, you're on a ley line because it was once a clear path to go on and there might be a stray dog. So it makes sense why a lot of people who have spiritualism on the mind would be on a quote ley line and see a quote hellhound on these paths. Anyway, all that to say, this was the beginning of things kind of morphing into like, ooh, there could be dark energy here. There could be haunted houses on these locations.

So the theory claims that ley line intersections have energy vortexes and thus spiritual portals making locations particularly haunted. One investigator actually looked into the Enfield Poltergeist, which I covered, I don't know how this is so long ago. A long time ago, right? Episode 56. Wow. Oh, I thought it was even earlier than that.

But episode 56, it's only like a year in to the show. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so someone looked into the Enfield Poltergeist and realized that that house had 13 ley lines intersecting through it. Oh my God. And also, if you think about the power of the

number 13 on top of all that so there's a curious about the winchester mystery house since she was so obsessed with 13 if there were any ley lines under that house because talk about a wild location i don't i don't know on the top of my head, but I'm sure there are ley line maps online. I saw a lot of blogs that said, I use this one ley line map. So there's got to be something. I'm scared to look because I feel like I'll look at my house and it'll be like, you're in the perfect abduction zone for aliens. I'm like, I don't want to know that. Don't tell me that so general beliefs about all this it became uh now that we're talking about like spirits and ghosts the general belief became that ley lines are magnets drawing in all other nearby energy and another theory is that a lot of ley lines are like shifts

or cracks in tectonic plates and that is magnetic energy being pulled through the water which would explain why dowsing rods are affected by it. Again, there is no proof of this, but that's another theory. But basically ley lines are magnets for energy. And if they really are like magnets, then there are some ley lines that are positive and some that are negative, just like how there are positive and negative poles.

Okay, that's interesting. So that leads into more spirit theory on like, well, there are positive ley lines and there are negative ley lines. So on positive ley lines, people can feel healed or enlightened. You know how there's like those certain spots that a lot of people have like retreats to where there's like healing waters and hot springs. The Catholics love shit like that. So one theory is that these places could be intersecting with

positive ley lines okay because it's energy that you can't explain it but you know all of a sudden you're healed or you feel revived after a week there um meanwhile there are also negatively charged ley lines where you could feel something really foreboding or something dark and a lot of people don't even know but they could their house could be on a ley line. So if you happen to have your house on a negative ley line, then your house could feel really chaotic. You might not sleep well. Maybe people get sick more often.

Is it like draining too, since it's like negative? I would imagine if it's a, I would imagine, yes, I kind of just associate it immediately with dark energy. But also if it is a magnet sucking out all imagine yes i kind of just associated immediately with dark energy but also if it is a magnet sucking out all energy that could include yours right yeah that's what i'm thinking so maybe you're just weaker or i like the positive is energizing you know you know what i thought was kind of cool and i'm i have a feeling i think you should just run with this theory even though there's no proof okay but i feel like that one room in your house falls on a ley line a positive ley line the one where you said like anytime we feel sick we just go be in

there oh at my mom's house yeah yeah yeah you know what that's an interesting theory too i like that i like to think it's exactly a dot on the positive ley line intersection map um just because you said like there's no reason i don't know why it doesn't really feel better we just naturally gravitate toward that room yeah yeah and so since energy attracts other energy it would make sense why we feel drawn to certain places or why we know not to go somewhere because just like a magnet if you put you know how magnets like they'll like fight each other yeah that's i mean there's like a resistance to like not go in certain rooms or to like you know something staring at you um so i i like that theory a lot and i also like the there's another add-on to this that if your

house sits on an intersection it could feel like energy is constantly flowing through your house and if it's two positives or whatever maybe maybe there is, you know, an intersection of two good waves of energy flowing through your house. But also if you're on an intersection of two negative lines or, you know, whatever isn't, you know, whichever don't. Are incompatible with each other, then all of a sudden you might have a haunted house. I like that theory. It's interesting. I like it too. And I also, I like that it kind of opens up the possibility

because there are some people that say like, I don't know why this place is haunted. There's never been any people who died here. But it could just mean that maybe when people say a location is haunted, maybe there doesn't have to be a ghost for something to be haunted. Maybe it's just the energy around it just naturally.

So active. Yeah. And I mean, if you are there was one theory like, well, what if there's a positive ley line and it happens to flow through or, you know, in the middle of this ley line? I'm pretending my arm is a line for people who are watching. If like if you're if there's a ley line that's positive, but like there's a house on this ley line and then something really dark and fucking tragic happens. Then like what happens to the energy of the ley line surrounding it? What happens to the house? Does like the positive energy? Right. Like does the ley line enhance or detract from that or

yeah amplify it that's such a good point so one theory is that um there can almost kind of like you know his original phrase of like terminal points or um lay markers is that at these intersections they can radiate their own energy and so on a positive line there can be patches of bad but they could sometimes the the theory was that these bad patches if they're dark enough they can suck the energy and over time expand and like and destroy an entire positive line and so positive lines can become negative no on the flip side i like to think bad lines can become good lines so there's actually uh one theory from i think this was the beginning of satanic panic that if there was a coven or witches doing dark rituals on a positive line if they do the same ritual or the same ceremony in

the same spot over and over eventually they're going to make a bad spot on a positive ley line and that darkness can over time consume the positive line and will quote blacken the line oh god and change its energy from positive or light to dark um so i do like this theory because it gives another explanation outside of actual ghosts and dead people. Yeah. And sometimes they would explain, too, like if people try to get their house cleansed, like, oh, well, you know, maybe you can't cleanse it because it just happens to be sitting on a bad part of property. Like, I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe you just got to move. Yeah.

Yeah. So if ley lines really are shifts in energy or if they're shifts in the a dead person now all of a sudden they're becoming increasingly darker or increasingly more active so now there can be energy bursts on these ley lines um but in instances where a house maybe doesn't have ghosts and it's just because it's sitting on ley lines that gives it activity um because people are said to subconsciously or, you know, subliminally feel even the lower shifts, like vibrational shifts of shifts in the magnetic field. That could explain why a lot of times we feel really off in houses, even if they're not said to be haunted. We can just go into a house and just feel weird. Energy's off, right? And it could just be a ley line. Interesting.

So now I'm going to tell you how you can find your own ley lines, which this is just a very quick recap. There were several instruction sets online, but the one that I found the most was that first, research landmarks near you, which I want to give a very clear warning. A lot of ley line intersections. Yes, they are historical landmarks. A lot of them are also they were or could still be sacred spots for certain cultures. There could be ancient ruins that people still worship at. So please don't be a dick if you decide to go out and look for landmarks near you that you want to walk around in some places are closed spots um some places have you know certain customs and if you don't know them respectful and you know no trespassing that kind of thing exactly so just don't be an asshole um nowadays like i said there are ley line maps that you can print

out and i've heard that people will print them out and lay them on top of another map and then you can draw the lines really easily cool and if you go to these places outside of just being respectful um the main thing is to open yourself up and a lot of people will go up to these places or walk the lines to meditate or do some like intentional healing or just show appreciation to these locations and our history. Um, how do you know if they're positive or negative? I don't know. Oh, Hmm. They never got that far. Alfred never let us know. Okay. Alfred never let us know. So, um, I'm going to try to blow through this part because it's the last section. But I do want to say, if I didn't mention it, I would feel stupid because it's very closely attached.

But ley lines are also, in theory, for maybe some more, like, quote, granola people out there, a lot of people see ley lines as arteries or veins of mother earth i know but hang hang in there i do think it's super cool i'm absorbing it i'm loving it okay cool i i when i first read it i did read my i rolled my eyes a little bit because i was like i've never had to like actually consider mother earth like as a person but there are people out there who do so um anyway ley lines are said to be like her veins and her arteries which i do think is like a really beautiful analogy it is because if the energy is flowing through um on a map it's you know mother earth flowing a value so so anyway i'm into that and apparently it leads into mother earth just like all of us have our own energy chakras.

Mother Earth has her own energy chakras. Talk about granola. Oh, my God. You've lived in L.A. too long. They almost lost me, but then they suckered me right back with Mother Earth has her own chakras. You're like, I might as well learn about this. I was like, I don't know why i ever doubted this so um so for those who don't know energy chakras are said to their energy that travel through our body and there's a there's

a lot but the there's seven that we mainly focus on they go from the base of your spine to the top of your head and with each uh with each chakra they represent something about character and who you become. If one is misaligned, the others can be misaligned. So you have to be in control and be aware of all seven chakras. So Mother Earth apparently also has these. And these ley lines, if they're her veins, they're said to lead to seven sacred sites around the world that are her seven chakras and are said to be massive energy vortexes. So the first one, I'm just going to go through the seven of them.

The root chakra or at the bottom is Mount Shasta, which I've covered in episodes 167 and 168. It's said to be one of the most charged mountains. And this chakra, the root chakra, is said to be based on your inner strength and stability and foundation. And one website even said that the root chakra is a powerful geyser for moving energy upwards and mount shasta is a literal fucking volcano okay now i see a powerful geyser moving energy upward

pretty interesting and if you're all about foundation i mean this is literally it's it is a foundation it's a volcano um also the second one is your sacral uh chakra and that's a lake titicaca in south america this chakra is said to represent sexuality sensuality creativity emotions and uh at this lake new life is abundant here so that represents sexuality um it's there's a lot of uh emotion regulation and creativity that's done here so people go here a lot for you know when they are at a crossroads the third one is the uh your solar plexus chakra which is uh two locations it's ayers rock known as aluru and the olgas and so these are both in australia and they are rocks that seemingly

rise out of nowhere. And this chakra is about personal power, self-worth, purpose, willpower, and inner strength. Oh, beautiful. The fourth one is the heart chakra. And this chakra is known for love, compassion, forgiveness. And the area is Stonehenge or near Stonehenge in the surrounding areas of Glastonbury and Shaftesbury, which has a lot of healing waters. So, you know, there's warmth and forgiveness and healing. And so that's why that represents that. The fifth one is the throat chakra, which is the Great Pyramid and Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. And this chakra is about expression, truth, and communication. And sorry, I'm blowing through these, but I know I'm

already over what I consider my time. Your allotted time that we never determined. The sixth one is your third eye chakra. And what's interesting about this one is that, I didn't know this maybe you do but the third eye chakra is not one location it changes did you know that wait the third eye chakra what do you mean like the like the location of it is not all is not one fixed spot it always like the location on the earth or like the location on your body i think just the location of the earth like the physical location that represents i mean i didn't know any of the things of the earth, like the physical location that represents. I mean, I didn't know any of the things that I didn't know the earth had

shock. So this is all very new to me. Fair enough. Yeah. I don't know about the, I think maybe the third eye also moves on us. Like the, I think it's a pineal gland or pineal gland or however you say it.

But so, uh, so the third eye it's right now the location is near stone hedge but we say right now because this chakra is said to move um oh it must be just the earth because uh because of the movement of the earth's axis it changes but it changes every every eon so right now okay every like 200 years sure so uh in 2012 we actually i wish i gave a shit about this stuff back then because it would have been so cool but in 2012 was the was the last time that we shifted eons so we've been alive for one of these and uh we shifted into the age of Aquarius. Oh, I didn't know.

I remember. I was actually very into that. Oh. Yeah. The guy I liked in high school was also really into it. So we would send each other YouTube videos about it, about the age of Aquarius. That's so cool.

Well, eventually we'll be shifting into the age of Capricorn, in which case the third eye chakra of Mother Earth will be changing from Stonehenge area to Brazil. Oh. Interesting. Okay, so the seventh one is the crown chakra, which I think I'm saying it right. I had to check, but Mount Kalish in the Himalayan mountains is the location for the crown chakra chakra of mother earth it's said to be the most sacred mountain of the himalayas and this chakra is about your highest levels of wisdom how to interpret the divine and also in the himalayas

it's known for mount everest which is literally the closest we can get to the spirit world which i think is super cool um the existence of ley lines, the fact that it like overlaps so well with so many of the chakras or so many of like Mother Earth chakras. These seven locations happen to I think all of them are ley line intersections. That's amazing. Anyway, I wanted to get through that just to tell you that in the world of skepticism, people who have issues with ley lines, there are many reasons why there is a very, very, very large chance that ley lines are kind of bullshit. Yeah. So I was going to say, we don't know that they're real, right? Like, it's not like, oh, you can like fall. Everything. It's like pseudoscience.

It's pseudoscience it's pseudoscience everything i have i have taught you today all came from enthusiasts who really want to believe it's true i see um but and you know what maybe if they were at a haunted location and it happens to fall on a ley line intersection it will i'll find a way to twist it into something cool for myself because I don't know any other way to live. But as I'm currently rooted in realism, in reality, it's said that ley lines do not exist. And there's a lot of good reasons for why they don't exist. To date, there's no empirical evidence of ley lines. Even if you google search ley lines there are a lot of conflicting maps um a lot of people agree that these sacred sites they uh it's just so

to do local maps of ley lines would be arbitrarily picking sites to try to make lines connect right i could see where it would be like confirmation bias looking at a map and saying oh look they line up yeah i can see that and at some locations like the himalayas or you know like there are certain places that everyone would probably agree like oh that's that probably we should find a way that a line connects from there to here right but if you're talking about like a small town map and trying to find the through lines like what hill is tall enough to be considered a landmark you know like is there a river bank that's mind-blowing enough that it would make sense why that was the site of an intersection like it just really becomes a cherry picking game very quickly. And without an approved list, anyone can pick any location when they're trying to make lines make sense.

And so everyone has a different pattern. And there's honestly millions of locations probably. And people could pick a different one each time. So on top of that, not all of the sites were built at the same time. So there's no way that like ancient builders in one area would have known about the sites of other areas to be able to perfectly line them up unless they were cosmically compelled to build in certain spots which i don't think was the case no um they couldn't intentionally build landmarks with like thousands of years ahead you know in mind yeah also um making lines intersect with historic landmarks in the uk which is what alfred

did that was like not hard to do because there's so many fucking landmarks so also i feel like you know michael saint michael it's pretty he's a pretty popular dude like i can see how that would just kind of be like another saint michaels yeah you know exactly yeah and so um and also since there weren't i mean if you go back in history a lot of places the only things that they had in their town was a church so of course there would be direct paths to only churches which would make sense by saint michaels has such a long fucking line yeah um and maybe the ley lines that seem haunted are another theory is that maybe they're not haunted if they are haunted maybe they're haunted by ghosts but not ley lines because um ley lines are a very easy way for us to just explain away eerie feelings when we feel

uneasy in a location um plus a lot of ley line intersections like i just said happen to be at churches or like cemeteries and so we can say oh this ley line is haunted because a cemetery sits on it right like it could also just be haunted because it's a fucking cemetery like or it doesn't have to feel creepy and it's not even haunted you're just creeped out because you're at a cemetery yeah i yeah i see how it could unravel rather quickly yeah yeah um also uh people who see ley lines on a map they could just be looking for patterns which is what our brains just naturally do um another reason is these are another skeptical thing is that these lines could have easily been made by ancient surveyors because they were just the easiest

route for dense forests. Like there's no quicker way from point A to point B than the shortest line possible. Just go straight through, right? Yeah. Interesting. I said earlier, maybe there's like tectonic plates and magnetic energy. There's no proof of that either. And then the last one is that the lines from the very beginning seemed a little embellished in Alfred's work.

Some of the lines were like much thicker than the others so that they would touch more sites on the map. They just widened them. Yeah. So the lines are just a plus on top of that. The lines can be any length you want. want and since there's like no measurable unit of line anyone can make a line long enough where like it takes 600 miles for this point and this point to reach each other with nothing else in between but hey it's a ley line so it just it doesn't make sense and just to show how vague these lines can be and like how there's really no true science to it a lot of people have satirically made ley

line maps between non-places like pay phones and pizza places and yeah like wendy's like people have just made ley line maps to show how an arbitrary spot if you draw a line through enough of them it'll create a line the the famous saint jack-in-the-box lay line for the midwest americas well in 2010 there was one guy named matt parker who laid out and figured out the precise geometry placement of all of the woolworth stores and near him like those defunct general stores that don't even exist take a starbucks and be like you can make any pattern you want there's so many of those and mcdonald's you could probably just create whatever pattern you want this is a quote from him he was truly just being such an ass and i love it

you know just to prove that ley lines are bullshit um so when he figured out exactly how all these woolworth stores linked together i actually have a picture of his findings. Oh, my God. Of the Woolworth stores that I will send to Geo's Trio. Okay. And it is weird that there is actually a symmetrical pattern to this. But it's just to show you that anything could be a symmetrical pattern. Woolworth stores.

So here's a quote from him. We know so little about the ancient Woolworth stores, but we do still know their locations. I thought if we analyze the sites, we could learn more about what life was like in 2008. Okay, that's pretty funny. The ancient Woolworth stores. So he made a good point that anything can be a pattern if you

look hard enough for it and finally i'll say and on bbc uh they said that lane line theory really comes down to uh the natural need to belong and to have answers to why we feel connected to certain places and the bottom line bottom ley line is that the only meaning to ley lines is what energy you put into them okay i mean i can i can back that i feel like that goes toward a lot of paranormal phenomenon like the energy you give to it you know i mean it sounds granola but i think it makes anyway that's ley lines for you good job m what do you what do you think do you know do you believe i mean obviously we don't know but do you what do you think

i don't know i also wonder i don't it feels like it could be one of those like tulpa situations where enough people put their energy and mind into it that maybe they accidentally conjure energy to these spots but i don't know i it probably isn't real i do like the original archaeology thought of like oh ancient routes yeah and i think that honestly that alone i think is very cool like even all the other stuff aside um yeah what do you think you know i don't know i i i'm kind of probably on the same page as you um i i would love someday if you covered dowsing rods as an episode. I think that would be really interesting.

Yeah. Because I've only used them recently in, like, our paranormal investigating. But I've never actually used them. Like, I know a lot of people who live on the land use them, like, not in a spiritual way, like actually find water where to put a water well that kind of thing um and so i think that's kind of a similar concept of like it got hyped up spiritually but it's also used as a tool like outside of that world exactly yeah that'd be like i guess i guess i can follow ley lines if those ley lines are under streams. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Anyway, I thought was I'm glad I finally gave you what you wanted.

I'm so happy. I was waiting for that one. And I didn't even remember that I was waiting for it. Yay. Yay. All right. Now bum me out, please. Can I pee first?

Yeah. Sorry. I drank so much coffee. I'll go get a drink, too. Okay, great. Can I pee first? Yeah. Sorry, I drank so much coffee. I'll go get a drink too. Okay, great. Elevator music. How was your pee? You know what?

It was splendid. Thank you for asking. What did you get? What? Oh, I was going to ask more about your pee. Was it, was it a, nevermind. Did you have fun? I had a great time.

How, what did you get to drink? I said, nevermind. Cause I then realized I didn't have any questions. And I was like, good. No, I just, I will. It wasn't going to be anything too gross. I was gonna be like, did you have a good time? And then I realized that was kind of the only question I had.

Um, uh, what did I get to drink? I got myself an ld uh which i'm having a good time with oh a liquid death i was like i'm sorry my brain is not computing okay don't you call it an ld what did what do i see no i don't i do now but did you see that oh maybe i do anyway did you see that they came out with teas I did I and I'm happy about that I haven't tried them I just I get nervous when I think they were a small business for a very long time and now that they're booming I feel like they feel the need to deliver to keep the momentum going which I understand as a strategy but I get nervous that like I don't

want I don't want the flavors to get too crazy or for them to go to a little too wild. Like example. Um, I feel like liquid death, they had the black can, they had the white can, they had still, they had sparkling. That was it. And it was a good time. Everyone loved, everyone loved it. No, not everyone. But Christine, I only like the flavor ones. And, and then they came up with the flavor ones but here's the problem with that is that now a lot of places i've noticed don't just have plain old fucking water because they're trying to cater because they're trying to cater to people with like all the sparkling stuff water plain water i literally did it i know so it's uh water get it out of your fridge i guess so i don't know there's something

about it mother earth and all her veins and her many chakras that's true but i also i mean not me i'm not included in this but i and you know what in high school i would have been included in this though is that there are a lot of people who can't drink anymore and just want some water but they want to feel the experience and like of like holding a can or like not get questioned at a party like i understand like the whole like i mean it's genius marketing but um as someone who doesn't like sparkling water i have now been affected by them pushing so many sparkling waters you don't like sparkling water at all so you're basically only on the still water train with the, with liquid. Yes. And because they've been trying to cater to the masses, which like, I don't know,

I get why they're doing it, but I kind of don't because I'm like, there's so many flavored sparkling waters out there. Like I don't drink any of the other ones anymore. Cause I'm like, these taste so much better. They actually have like juice in them. They're like 30 calories. They're not like the zero calorie ones. They're're not like they're so good just the way they are that i'm like as a big as a big fan of ld i'm sure that they taste great i have no doubt about that but like they have made they've made a business call that is now boxing me out with my still water because now i wonder if they only get like so much room in a fridge at a store or something and now it's all just fucking flavored sparkling water

and like i one of their og fans now can't just get my goddamn still water that's all i want you just order it online that's what i do i'm look i'm just venting i just have i just i i liked what i had and it's not happening as often anymore and well anyway they just released an armless palmer and i'm very excited to try it on amazon and it's coming in a couple weeks because it's i think a pre-order so i'll let you know how it is um thank you i appreciate that sweetened with agave i'm very excited about it uh that's nice yeah so we'll see but anyway um they are not a sponsor yet they're not a well especially after i just like poo-pooed their sparkling flavored water maybe was that

why you were trying to save face because you just really want them to send you genuinely don't understand why anyone would buy still water at a store but whatever as someone who doesn't drink a lot of things because i have such limited options, sometimes the fun options I get are purely based on the container. I do understand that. Yes. I just, it doesn't surprise me that they were like, okay, that's not our big hit seller. Like we got to move on to other. I'm saying I get it.

I just, I'm in a selfish way. I'm just so upset about it. Just order them online. They're all online. That's what I do. Yeah, but it is a fun little treat, though, when I go to a store and I'm like, yay. And so I feel like that moment is happening less and less. So anyway, I saw them at BevMo and I really ran with it.

So that's why I have them currently. So thank you, BevMo, for hearing my cries. Oh, Christine. Oh my God. Let's talk about something actually sad okay i'm gonna tell you instead of liquid death we'll talk about actual death yeah it's very unfortunate um you know our lives are obviously very tragic when we don't get the beverages we want but okay some people's lives are unfortunately much much much worse. So we're going to cover a cold case today.

And this is the cold case of Lauren Spearer. Spear? Spear? Spearer. Spearer. Okay. Like mirror. Sort.

S-P-I-E-R-E-R. Okay. Got it. So Lauren Spearer was originally from Scarsdale, New York and was born in 1991. So pretty much our age. She was studying textiles merchandising at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, right around the time when we were in college. And she was described as a great kid, very outgoing, very social. She did ballet. She was high energy, had a, quote, zest for life, you know, as this tends to- Lit up a room.

Lit up a room, as it always just so foreshadowing, you know. And so it's just, it's, we're starting off just in the most sad trope ever. She just was a bright light in this world. In a video of her bat mitzvah, for example, people praised her endless potential and her joy of living life. She was 20 years old and a sophomore when she went missing in the early morning hours of June 3rd, 2011. Oh, wow. Okay. What were you doing June 3rd,rd 2011 m um i was busy turning 19 yeah i know what were you doing um what did i do well probably something incredibly happy i think that's good okay well yeah i don't know i can't give a drink no that was my 21st birthday. Sorry. My bad. No. And this one, I probably had a party at home with some people and I. Nope.

I was going to say, I think I hooked up with somebody. Nope. I did not. You did not. You just drank chocolate milk. Oh, wait. No, that also didn't happen. Wow.

I just stood in a corner and like ate goldfish. I don't know. Oh, that's what I was doing, too. All right. Cool. So Bloomington. Do you know anything about Bloomington, Indiana? Okay.

So this is where Indiana University is. I only know it because I'm from the Midwest. And I know people who went. Blaze's brother actually went there too. It's like a classic college town. Just like a big university. IU is a big 10 school. So like sports are really big. Greek life's really big. It's just like that classic, you know, college, American college

atmosphere. Wait, so is it, is it, is it Iowa University itself? No, no, Indiana University. Indiana. Oh God, sorry. That's so embarrassing. It is. I just heard IU and didn't know what I was doing. Okay. Didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, so it's in Indiana, a couple hours from me actually here. And according to Lauren's friend, there's just so many people around and out at all hours. There was always something going on. So like I said, IU was a Big Ten or is a Big Ten school, Like I said, IU was a Big Ten or is a Big Ten school, big into school spirit, big into sports. And local bars were always packed with IU students who drank and partied until the early morning when they would walk home, get a couple hours of sleep before class the next day or whatever they were doing the next day. Just like your classic cliche college campus. So former students describe the feeling of campus as very close knit and they never felt unsafe because they were always surrounded by other students,

which I think is kind of a big part of the story. It's sort of like that false sense of security that you feel somewhere like a college campus where you're all kind of the camaraderie of everybody else as a student like you, and you kind of get this false sense of security. So Lauren's parents even felt that IU was the idyllic college setting for her. They felt like she was away from the dangers of the world, like she was really safe there. And she pretty quickly made a good group of friends who described her as bubbly. One of her friends described her as the kind of person you fall in love with as soon as you meet her. She just did really well in school, just had great friendships.

And the most popular bar at the time in town was called Kilroy's, and this is where Lauren and her friends would go all the time. This was like their regular spot. It was just a safe, familiar space. Even when it was packed, it was just their go-to. So Lauren met most of her friends a few years earlier at a summer camp in Pennsylvania. And that's also where she had met her boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, and her friend, Jason Rosenbaum. So on June 2nd, she had had friends over at her place and it was the end of the semester. Everyone was starting to unwind. The group was drinking wine and watching a basketball game for

most of the day. And that evening, Jesse was at home at his own apartment. So that's her boyfriend. And Lauren texted him that she was just going to go to sleep after the game. Okay. But for whatever reason, her plans changed later that night because at 1230 a.m., surveillance footage at her apartment shows her leaving her house. And when she's leaving her house at 1230 a.m., she looks happy, peppy, like she's about to go have fun. And you can see on the surveillance that she walks two blocks to her friend Jason's townhouse where Jason was hosting a party along with his friends Corey Rossman and Michael Beth. Cool.

And so far, by the way, I know she already said, oh, I'm going to go to bed. And then she ended up going out. College was a wild time. You didn't know what you were doing five minutes from now. It's not that weird, right? I totally agree. It's like... Before it becomes like, oh oh it sounds like she was

up to something she's lying or something but like I totally agree with you because and who knows like you know her boyfriend was probably asleep and maybe she was like I don't want to wake him and text him or or he doesn't need to know where I am all the time you know I mean it doesn't there were so many times where I thought I was in for the night and someone would say oh come come to the gap we I went to someone would say, oh, come to the gas station. I went to a small college. They were like, come to the gas station with us. And I go, okay.

That's the name of the cool hit bar downtown. Well, you know, remember I told you we used to break into the bowling alley? When that got knocked down, all we had was a gas station. But, I mean, you know, you would think that you're in for the night and then five seconds later there's a plan. I mean, that happens to me all the time when I'm like, I'm going to bed. I'm going to finish this curry that I left in the room. And then all of a sudden there's a knock at my door and M has their shoes on and says, let's watch Zach Bagans. And then, and it was the last time I ever had those shoes on. Thank you very much. Suddenly I own the shoes and then the airport does. And it's just,

oh my gosh, what a mess. So yeah, I've been there and I text, you know what? Perfect example. I text the blaze, I'm going to bed. And then you showed up and we hung out all night and it's just, oh my gosh, what a mess. So yeah, I've been there. And I text, you know what? Perfect example. I text Blaze, I'm going to bed. And then you showed up and we hung out all night. And it's like, it's not, I wasn't lying to him. I just didn't update him on my plans. Just life happened. Life happened. And life is showing up at the door.

So I am glad you said that because I totally agree. I didn't find it like that weird. So I am glad you said that because I totally agree. I didn't find it like that weird. But so either way, she decides to go a couple blocks down the street to her friend Jason's townhouse. He's hosting a party with his friends, Corey and Michael. And it was just a pretty classic standard college party. They were drinking. Some people have speculated there may have been drugs available. And Bloomington, pretty much like I would say any major college town, did have an active drug scene, mostly party drugs like Coke and Xanax. A former student said there were plenty of students who had money and could afford not only the drugs, but also the legal risks, which I thought was interesting. That came with drugs. So like they were in a privileged position where, you know, if they were caught with substances or whatever, they could get their way out of it. Slap on the wrist. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So interestingly, Lauren's parents didn't realize that Lauren was somewhat

involved in this scene. And, you know, not extensively, but police did find a small amount of coke in her room after she disappeared and you know this was not abnormal uh for kids in college experimenting with different party drugs um she was kind of doing what everyone in her social circle did and like i said there was this element of feeling safe among your peers and like you know nothing would happen um but the only reason that this really did shock her parents is because lauren had a serious heart condition and like I mean you who have a heart issue like you know you can't take certain substances like you know yeah I mean and so and she knew about her heart condition yes yeah uh yeah I mean sometimes I am so glad that I never had a Coke phase.

I mean, I'm always glad I never had a Coke phase. I mean, yeah, always. But let's just say that if there was a predisposition to having an interest in that, I have it. I don't know if there actually is. But let's just say I've been surrounded by, I grew up hearing a lot of stories about how fun it can be. And I, because I just by choice never did anything. I'm so glad I didn't follow in any footsteps because not knowing at the time I had a heart condition, I could have fucked myself up. And to know, I mean, that's scary. If she knew she had a heart condition and did it anyway, that's super dangerous.

Yeah, it was super dangerous. Her heart condition is called long QT syndrome, LQTS. And basically it's an abnormal feature of the heart's electrical system that can lead to a life-threatening arrhythmia. So if it gets out of whack, she could die. And so it was very serious. She actually had to quit all of her sports in high school like any physical activity because it would activate it too badly shit let me look this thing up hang on let me just add this to the things i'm going to talk to my doctor about lqts yeah long qt syndrome long qt long qt i do have cutie, you know, I don't have the other one.

Boy, I was waiting for that one. Okay. It's added to the docket. Thank you. Yeah. So this had deeply impacted her life ever since she was a child. She had to quit all of her sports in high school. And it was just something that was just a major hindrance in her life. And so the fact that she would be doing drugs, especially drugs like cocaine with this condition, put her at very high risk for dangerous reactions, possible death. And so at some point, Lauren left the party with Corey and walked to Kilroy's, their bar, not the gas station, but you know, that's how you might remember it.

They had just as much fun. they had just as much fun they had just as much fun they did listen they were on cocaine you were getting slushies at the gas station i'm sure it was all equal um so she left the party with cory the friend cory and walked to kilroy's for more drinks they arrived at kilroy's around 2 a.m but only stayed for about half an hour and then this is where things start to go awry because lauren leaves the bar but she leaves oh god i didn't even okay i feel like i made a point of bringing this up and i didn't mean to and i wasn't trying to make light of this but she left her shoes at the bar and like i know we just talked about you leaving your shoes i had completely forgotten that part of the story so i wasn't trying to like make light of this at all.

Wow. All right. But she left her shoes and her cell phone at Kilroy's. And so that alone, I feel like indicates she was pretty intoxicated, you know, just to be that drunk that you go out and leave not only your shoes, but your cell phone at the bar and kind of just wander out. And you can actually see around 2.30 a.m. she's walking back to her place with Corey, which is only a block away from the bar. And when they get to the apartment complex, they get off the elevator on the fifth floor where Lauren lives and they run into a group of four men and these men are IU students as well so there's speculation here that they were perhaps friends of Lauren's boyfriend Jesse who was not around that day they just kind of recognized each other and said hey

yeah so yes so there's speculation that like maybe they knew um but but the reason that that's kind of important is that if they were friends of Jesse's, perhaps they were like, why are you coming home with a different guy? Like, you know, he's walking her home and they kind of run into each other in the hallway outside her apartment. There could have been some sort of like, hmm, why are you here with this dude instead of Jesse, who's at home? with this dude instead of Jesse, who's at home. So it's a little odd, but for whatever they discuss, they get into a disagreement, Corey and these four dudes. So the way it appears is that they didn't like the way Corey seemed to be handling or manhandling Lauren, who was totally wasted. Corey apparently said something that pissed them off and one of them punched cory in the face that's so dramatic oh my gosh like such a dramatic scene in right outside the elevator in the hallway so in the end cory and lauren walk away from this altercation and surveillance footage shows

cory and lauren now turning around and leaving the apartment complex but now on the footage you can see how absolutely drunk she is because she is barely able to walk she falls twice in the alley on camera and again she's barefoot so she's just totally drunk um smashed just totally smashed yes which again it's college good for her but also right it's not like abnormal but it's but so it that that gives um some insight into like oh maybe he was maybe they had some um legitimate concerns about how he was handling her if he i mean did they did they they do you think do we find out later if he had any ill will about that like he might have literally zipped his mouth and never said a fucking word he's never said a fucking word

so we don't really know and i think like kind of looking at it like zooming out a bit i think i see what you're saying too of like that and correct me if i'm wrong but like that she's so wasted and he's like bringing her home and that maybe they stopped them like hey what are you guys doing yeah well like just out of concern for her yeah because i i do i definitely think there can be like friends that are guys that are truly just trying to get you home but like if a group of people who knew her thought that this guy was handling her a bit weird like like felt like something was wrong yeah yeah i don't want to discredit them if they had a legit concern but also i mean we don't know he could have this could have been a totally innocent man it could have been just like a weird drunk fight that had nothing to do with anything

yeah yeah but you know considering the fact that she was so drunk and then they left her apartment after that it's just an odd i don't know series of events um so she's in the alley she's so drunk. And then they left her apartment after that. It's just an odd, I don't know, series of events. So she's in the alley. She's so drunk. She's falling over. She's barefoot. And she falls twice. And at this point, Corey decides to just pick her up and throw her over his shoulder in a fireman's carry, which is just kind of jarring to watch.

Like, it's like, Oh, okay. I don't know. I just like, it's not, things aren't good. Like whether she's just really drunk and can't walk or whatever it is, it's just like a,

not a great site. It's like, she doesn't seem to be doing well. Okay. And this footage, unfortunately is the last time Lauren has ever been seen. So it's literally her just getting carried away, like over this guy's shoulder. Not a good look.

No, no. So Corey, this is what his story is. He insists that when he got home with Lauren, he threw up on the steps and went straight to bed. Okay. Very college. okay very college uh his roommate michael backs the story up and both of them say that lauren went back over to jason's house to keep partying which was only 30 feet from cory's and michael's place so the story is she goes to jason's place but jason says the party at his place was already over at this point it's like you know after three the morning. And when she shows up at his door, he realizes she's in such awful shape that he insists that she crash on his couch.

And, you know, Lauren, who, according to the footage we just talked about, was too drunk to even walk on her own, apparently told Jason she refused to go to sleep on his couch. She wasn't done partying and left his place and headed down the street toward her apartment and if this is the truth like if this is the actual series of events that happened uh then he was the last person to ever see lauren alive at around 4 30 in the morning on june 3rd wow so you know between seeing her with cory in the alley and then um this we don't 100 know what happened here, but this is their story, their version of events. So later that night, Lauren's parents, Robbie and Charlene, got a call that Lauren never made it home that morning, and that she was officially missing. So, you know, the news picked up the story right away and kind of as is expected, it became really high profile.

She's this beautiful young white woman, just like college age, just the exact kind of story that gets picked up by the mass media and goes like wildfire. Celebrities like the Kardashians and Ryan Seacrest even tweeted about this calling for volunteers to help search for her. Uh, there was a hundred thousand dollar reward to find her. Um, and I just like, I just feel like this is in such stark contrast to so many missing persons cases because it's just, you know, I i mean it's something we all know and understand um and i did want to point out that next week i will be covering kind of the opposite case where oh okay yeah where you know the victims are sex workers and people who just got not even the time of day from the media let alone the the Kardashians and Ryan Seacrest.

You know what I mean? And obviously everybody deserves to be searched for on a national level. You know, everybody deserves to be cared for no matter what their background is or what they do. But, you know, I just feel like it's worth mentioning because it was such a viral case. And, you know, so many of these cases don't even go anywhere. So anyway, there's this $100,000 reward. The entire town mobilizes police, military, hundreds of volunteers take to the streets. They search every alley, park, and dumpster for any sign of Lauren.

People are on horseback searching wooded areas. They're searching local creeks, rock quarries, and they're searching the landfill. And yeah, in local neighborhoods, they're opening all the trash bags, which is just so dark and scary. And Lauren's dad in an episode of 2020 I watched said this was the hardest part of the search to just see to just stand there and watch people digging through trash, like looking for his daughter. And he just broke down crying when he described it. He said it was just horrific, a horrific experience. They're just terror stricken, like, you know, you want to find her, but also not like that, you know? Yeah.

So people were going through the woods calling Lauren's name and her friends said they kept fantasizing about hearing her call back to them but it never happened and Lauren's mom said at the time that she woke up every day thinking today is the day you know that we're going to find her and she went to bed every night knowing she had failed and oh my she felt like she just could not do what it took to find her daughter. So hope starts to fade, of course, and days go by, then weeks, and then years. And years are going by without a single clue or sign of where Lauren could have ended up. So it's been five years at this point after her disappearance when Dateline decides to do a special on the case. And at this point, they interview students around IU's campus. And this is really upsetting. The

students they interviewed said they'd either never heard of Lauren or they felt her case was no longer relevant to their lives. Okay, must be nice. And one girl... Like they just were just, oh, I'm bored. bored yeah not interesting one girl said she felt it was old news and people should quote let it go and move on who said that what does it matter with you oh my god well my god i don't even know what to say to that i don't even know to say that i don't either and it's like karma gets you seriously like i hope you kind of reassess things because that's not a great way to look at the world yeah i hope one day you you know are you have an awakening and then lose a lot of sleep in the middle of the night realizing you said that publicly on national tv yeah yeah yeah um maybe

she already did because i bet people were like, fuck you. You know, I'm sure it wasn't a good look. But of course, people who knew and loved Lauren couldn't just move on and let it go. Like, what? Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Very naive way to look at things. Her parents, who posted a banner to Facebook that read, as determined as day one, began a social media campaign, and the goal was to keep Lauren in public consciousness in case one day somebody remembered something or decided to step forward. So Lauren's mom wrote a note on Facebook to whoever knows what happened to Lauren, and the note read, there is always someone actively working to find you someone is always looking for you how ironic just as we are looking for lauren we are just as diligently looking for you i have to believe that someday you will let your guard down that gives me goose cam oh god yeah and they talked about that they were like the most frustrating thing is knowing that somebody

out there knows what happened and what is saying fuck all saying fuck all and could change our lives like could just completely change our lives just an answer just like any sort of information that could at least let them have some closure even if they were like i mean like even though they're like quote the bad guy i just like wish they had one moment of weakness to just own up and be like this is where she is is. Just even an anonymous tip, anything. Anonymous. I mean, it's just heartbreaking that people just go to their graves with this kind of thing and let people just suffer. So from the get go, Lauren's parents felt that the men who had spent that evening with Lauren might know more than they are saying.

And I mean, to be fair, they were the last ones seen with her and the last ones to see her alive. But of course, they all lawyered up almost immediately. And, you know, this is that kind of gray space we touch on where it's like, you know, knowing your rights and defending yourself is not not a crime. And we always, you know, say if you're in this situation your best bet is to get a lawyer someone to defend you but also also i was gonna say if they're i mean they're college kids that from and they go to a school that we've already discussed is like probably got a lot of white wealth like i feel like they probably i don't even think it was up to them i feel like

their parents immediately lawyered up it was like don, don't, don't say anything. Don't say anything. But I mean, to be fair, like, I think that's what my parents would do. I mean, obviously I come from a privileged background as well, but it's like, you know, I'm not saying like a wealthy background, but just like a white, you know, like, I feel like if I were in this scenario, my parents would be like, and I were 19 years old or whatever. I feel like my parents would be like, you're getting a lawyer, you know know it's just like the automatic reaction well i mentioned the wealth thing because i feel like it was it wasn't even a question like they could afford it like i think there were a lot of people who would also lawyer up but maybe would have

struggles in that way but that's true you couldn't afford right that's right that's true not everybody can just like lawyer up and get someone to defend them right away. I think they were just four kids with parents who had access to probably, I'm assuming, a lawyer pretty quickly. And again, understandably, because I do the same thing. They were just like, don't say a fucking thing. We're getting a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. And so like you can see both sides.

It's sort of like, well, you know, in in this scenario most of us would hope that we'd be able to set up a defense pretty quickly or or for our own children like if our own children were in this scenario and you know you don't want to mess with it i can see why you'd be like you know get a lawyer don't say anything even if you did nothing wrong just keep your mouth shut it is such a double-edged sword it is it just looks guilty even though it's just self-preservation you know exactly you know and it's funny you say that self-preservation ends up being a word that comes up here um throughout the story um but so they lawyer up uh almost immediately and it's frustrating because Lauren's parents are like yes we understand

that it's self-preservation but we specifically feel like they know something that they're hiding. So it's just a hard spot to be in. And police were never able to confirm her boyfriend Jesse's alibi because he was home alone that night. So for what it's worth, we're not even sure, you know, whether he was involved or not. And he did initially help search for lauren the first two days of the search efforts but his uh parents actually came to town and removed him from the search so this goes back to kind of being in that position where you're young enough that your parents are still kind of like looking out for you and like making decisions on your behalf

um in self-preservation i suppose suppose. And so, you know, one of the theories that the investigator, he's a former FBI investigator that the family hired, and one of his theories was, you know, potential jealousy, like maybe the boyfriend found out she was out with these dudes and, you know, maybe that had something to do with it but there really is no clear evidence of that so either way Lauren's friends spoke out in defense of Jesse they were big fans of his they said he was a loving boyfriend he'd never hurt her he would never hurt her and so you know he was defended pretty early on by everybody who knew him police could also never confirm that Lauren ever left Corey and Michael's apartment to go to Jason's. And if she had gone to Jason's, they could never confirm that she left Jason's. So there's just no footage like, you know, CCTV footage after that alley. We just don't know

what happened after that. However, as we both can probably tell, it did not look good for Corey that the last time she was seen was him carrying her apparently blacked out away from her home, like leaving her home with her on his shoulder. It's just like not a good look. So Corey later claimed that after having been punched in the face, he was concussed and lost his memory of what happened. Okay. Concussed? Yeah. He claimed that, remember he got punched in the face?

Oh, he got a concussion from it? He claims that he got a concussion and then forgot everything that happened that night. But if you're concussed and also incredibly drunk, that's so much more dangerous. I mean, he did say he puked all over the stairs. So, you know, it's possible that he was also drunk. So who knows?

He said he lost most of his memory from the night as a result of getting punched. But as for Lauren's parents, her dad describes it as self-preservation. He's like, I don't believe that story. I don't believe he lost his memory because he got punched in the face i think it's i feel like it's a reservation it feels a little reaching because well i don't know i feel like he could have just said i was so drunk i was blackout i was blackout drunk and that would have been enough i feel like that yeah the i feel like a a concussion face and all that. If it's not real, it feels like it's it's over kind of convoluted.

Yeah. It feels like a little complex story. And also, like. It doesn't necessarily defend you from anything. It just just lets you just plead the fifth, basically. I don't know. You know, so he actually, Corey, is the only one of the three men of interest who would never agree to speak to Lauren's parents. So, you know, for what it's worth, all the others, even with their lawyers, were, you know, were able to were comfortable speaking to Lauren's parents. He's the only one who refused. And her father says, you know, he can't make any claims. He's not sure of anything, but he feels this memory loss thing is not true and that it's just self-preservation.

So, you know, he's frustrated that the last person who saw their daughter alive will not meet with him, will not talk to him, will not give him anything, give her parents any sort of information. They're just really frustrated about that. But that said, according to Corey's lawyer, he has cooperated fully with official investigators. So, you know, we don't really know. It's just kind of a closed door. So tips started coming in about Lauren. Every single lead, of course, was a dead end. The case eventually went cold and Bloomington seemed to move on. And when this happened, Lauren's parents hired a team of private investigators. And one of those was the retired FBI agent who I described earlier, who says when someone has gone missing, it's usually a case of someone in their inner circle.

And, you know, we've learned that from Law & Order SVU, I think. I certainly think so, yeah. Like most often in cases of abuse, in cases of abduction, you know, all that, it's typically somebody you know most often. And so private investigators and many others felt maybe drugs had something to do with Lauren's story and what happened to her that night. You know, the media portrayed her as this party girl and it kind of put on this sort of shade of blame over her as like she was in party mode when she vanished. So, you know, she should have known better. She was asking for it, that kind of thing, which obviously is fucked up.

Yeah, I think so. But, you know, when the victims are sex workers and it's like, well, they shouldn't have put themselves in that position. And it's like, you know, that's really not a fair way to look at any of this. Yeah. It's just just because of their title, because right now we're talking about a story where the same thing happened. Yeah. Yeah, precisely. So in an interview, Lauren's mom says she didn't make wise choices Lauren's mom says she didn't make wise choices that night, but she didn't make herself disappear. Right. Yeah. Like that's

the best way to put it. And aside from the men Lauren was with that night, police considered that Lauren may have been a victim of a random attack. Like that was definitely, you know, when we said she walked home, maybe, maybe she met with foul play on the way home i guess so lauren was extremely small she was four foot eleven and only weighed 95 pounds so it would have been pretty easy for someone to just kind of grab her off the street um especially when she was so out of it and the 2020 episode i watched talked about campuses being an ideal place. This is very disturbing, everyone. So just, you know, heads up. But if you're if your kid's about to go to college, you're about to say, yeah, if you have have been drinking, who, like I said,

have this false sense of security being on their own campus surrounded by familiar faces, feeling like they're safe. I.e. Ted Bundy, his whole thing was college girls. His whole thing and his whole thing of making people feel safe around him. And so, you know, there's this idea that you could just drive into a college campus and target vulnerable young women like Lauren, especially if they're alone, especially if they're small in stature, like 95 pounds like Lauren. And so this 2020 episode that came out, it was about five years ago. And at the time, they said in the last five years, 56 female college students of all walks of life, all ethnicities have vanished off college campuses, and three were found dead, four were still missing at the time. And apparently, there are people who just cruise campuses to find victims

that don't offer much resistance and who are alone and, you easy prey so to speak and so you know that's definitely a possibility there was actually a white pickup truck seen on camera circling the block uh the morning lauren went missing but you know that lead just went nowhere so it's a possibility but it could also i mean if we're like really opening up any opportunity it could have also just been someone not on the official college campus or driving by it but like my school we had um they were they were very obnoxious but they would i think i already told you about like the bicycle gang yeah okay so i i was always worried that like when they grow up they're gonna like fucking bother girls on campus for sure but

their thing um was that they would always go to places right next to campus so like where all the students would go grocery shopping or where that fucking gas station or like oh let's go off campus and go to a restaurant that's walking distance so it was always like the perimeter of the campus that was even more dangerous because it was just easier access and away from cameras and and they weren't like standing out because they weren't students right they were right yeah yeah that's an interesting they would just they would approach people and make them so uncomfortable and when i was there they were like just middle schoolers i was like i'm scared for like like a few years from now when like they're old enough to like have a car and like threaten

somebody they freaked me out like and and their whole thing was just being near the campus but not on it so it could also it could have been someone i could have been a gas station she could have literally like what i used to do all time, walk to the gas station and grab a drink. She could have done that on her way home. You don't know. You never know. And there's no way to know. I mean, it's just she potentially, if the story is true, she just left her friend Jason's house to walk home.

And, you know, it's only a block, but who knows what could have happened. Yeah, but also earlier that night she said she was going home. Is this true? And then she went to a party. So maybe she was planning on going home and took a sharp left somewhere. That's a great point. Maybe she went somewhere else. I mean, I would imagine if she did go to, like, a gas station or something, it would be on camera.

But you're right. She could have gone to another friend's house. Yeah, she could have ran into another group of people looking to party and then they all wander into the woods or some shit. She could have gotten in someone's car. Like, we just don't. We don't know, which is just so frustrating. Also, this is so disturbing, but it sounds like she was very vocal about looking for

a party. So if she went up to a random stranger and just said, I'm looking to party and they could tell she was already fucked up. I mean, it's not hard to lure her away saying just said, I'm looking to party. And they could tell she was already fucked up. I mean, it's not hard to lure her away saying, oh, we've got a party. It's sort of like that's exactly one of the theories is that someone saw her and said, well, that's a target, you know? And, yeah, that's exactly why it's so frustrating. It feels like you could go in one of, you know, a thousand directions and we just don't know which it is. And one of the, like I said, there was a car circling and they couldn't really pin that down. It didn't seem to go anywhere, that lead. there was another lead uh there was this man in the area who had recently been released from prison after he was convicted for assaulting and strangling his ex-wife uh and an anonymous

tipper called in claimed that he had killed lauren and buried her on a farm oh god yeah and so he just volunteered that information a volunteer an anonymous tip came in from someone else. Right. But I feel like he had to tell someone for them to be the tip. Or maybe he was the tip. I don't know. No, I think the idea is someone else called and said, this guy did it. I know he did.

So they pull him in. And he agreed to do a polygraph test with private investigators. And we know a polygraph test is not a reliable way to, it's not even permissible in court as evidence. So it's just kind of a barometer, but either way, regardless, he passed the test with flying colors. There was no evidence he had done anything whatsoever. Um, and as he left, he just told the investigators, I wish you the best of luck. I really do. You know, it just seemed like he really did have nothing to do with this. So the next lead was a local biker gang. Um, speaking of which, uh, rumors came out that Lauren perhaps owed money to a drug dealer,

but according to all of Lauren's phone records and this private investigator went through like all her phone records and she had never called or received any anything from numbers linked to any local dealers. So that also seemed to be kind of a dead end, just a rumor. And this is at the point where private investigators start to believe that locals are calling in tips on each other just to like get other people in trouble. Like if they like like the like the witch trials or something like just pointing fingers for like to get, if they have a grudge against someone, for example, this like biker gang guy,

someone called in to accuse him. And then private investigators were like, we're pretty sure it's just like his rival gang or whatever. That's calling in and saying he did it to try and get him in trouble. That's such, by the way, what a messy biker gang, like getting the police involved involved the whole thing is that you don't get right like jesus christ what are you new here yeah and that apparently is what they thought people were doing

like the same with calling in tips on uh you know ex-convicts and former felons things like that people were just calling random tips on each other that didn't seem to lead anywhere. And so their theory was, you know, I think people are just trying to get their grudges out, like trying to get revenge on people they don't like. And so it was just causing trouble. It was such a mess. And like, meanwhile, every time a tip comes in, you know, there's a sense of hope for the family and then it just immediately vanishes. So it's just heartbreaking. Meanwhile, Lauren's parents felt that police could have done more in early efforts to find Lauren. Apparently, police didn't release any of the surveillance footage of Lauren's movements on the night she vanished.

And this is odd because in other cases where missing persons were recovered, police immediately released all images and footage of the victims right away. And that often leads to answers pretty quickly. But police, for whatever reason, held back all the footage and the photos, did not release any of it, and just maintained they have their reasons. And that's that. Oh, okay. Yeah, no explanation. And five years after their daughter disappeared, Lauren's parents still had not been allowed to see any of the footage. Like they don't even show her family the footage. They just retained it and then let the case go cold, which is honestly kind of infuriating. story was far simpler than anyone might have guessed and the story went that Lauren simply overdosed at a party that night the people with her were afraid they'd get in trouble for her accidental death so they moved her body dropped it into the Ohio River and that was that so the tipper who called in uh claimed that a man Corey, a different Corey, but a man named Corey who was currently serving prison time and was a former IU student, had told him this story.

And the reason this Corey was in prison when this tip came in is because apparently he had been going through a lot of like alcohol and drug use during college as a student. and drug use during college as a student and then one day he walked outside he kind of like i don't know snapped is the right word but he walked outside totally nude with a gun and started firing it just in the streets in the middle of the day so he was intoxicated he was really fucked up and i think it was drugs and he ended up going to prison for like 20 some years for that wow and so that's why he was in prison but so this other inmate said hey this guy cory told me a story of what happened to lauren like he knew what happened so they go question him but of course cory denies all of it says he he never said anything at all. But when they asked the tipper, the anonymous tipper, like, can you tell us what happened? And when he was interviewed on Dateline, they like, you know, hid his identity so that you couldn't actually see who he was.

But the tipper basically said they were in the rec room or whatever in prison and playing cards. And Lauren's face came up on the TV. And this guy, Corey, said, oh, I know what happened to her. You know, a group of people were hanging out and she overdosed and they panicked and threw her in the river. And so that was the story that, you know, that was the simplest but like potentially true tip they've gotten so far. And is there is there any way people can go looking in the river or was just so many years at that point? That's what I would think is like maybe it's just been so long that like at this point, if she hasn't been washed up that like it would be a tough search. that like it would be a tough search yeah um you know i know i was just watching a documentary about the murdoch murders and um in south carolina and her body washed up five miles down the river

and that was only you know i think a few weeks or months later so I can't imagine like she could be anywhere yeah after so many years it's hard to say why would he admit I feel like if you kept it quiet that long like why would you admit it you know I imagine it was just like like you know bullshitting and yeah I guess like just shooting the shit and you let your guard down and you just say something and then regret it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So, I mean, and again, it could just be this anonymous tipper just trying to get this guy in more trouble.

Who knows? Right. Or he could have. Sometimes you see these cases where people in jail just make up lies and say, oh, I killed that person just for clout. The cred. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's hard to say like how true that actually is. But, you know, there's something to be said for like the simplest solution is sometimes the way that it is. So, you know, even if the tipper didn't really know the true story, police and even Lauren's family think it's definitely a possibility, especially with her heart condition. You know, that her mom said perhaps it was a terrible accident that happened and we can deal with that. What we can't deal with is what we don't know. So they're like, even if that is what happened, like, please tell us so we can, you know, close this chapter. Yeah. So it's just heartbreaking. There really haven't been many answers. To this day, Lauren's mother

still updates the Facebook page. The Facebook page is called Official Lauren Spear Updates from Her Family. This is where she shares articles, memories of Lauren, and even responds to leads from TikToks and other social media angles. In 2020, she wrote prose about trying to go through Lauren's things, which had me tearing up earlier so let's hope I can get through it it says today is the day I think I can start going through Lauren's things it's over eight years I go into her room there are all the boxes standing at attention as if soldiers guarding her memories and so it's just so chilling and heartbreaking. On Lauren's birthday this year, 2023, January 17th, her mom wrote, you are always in my thoughts and in my heart. Maybe next year

will be different. Maybe next year justice will walk hand in hand with you in place of evil. I celebrate you today, Lauren, as best as I can. Know that dad, Rebecca, and I love you more than words can say you are missed all my love, always mom. So Lauren's family, you know, hopes that they can keep Lauren's name out there and people will remember her and potentially someone will remember something or finally decide to come forward with, with any information they have. Um, and so, you know, decide to come forward with, with any information they have. Um, and so, you know, if you do know anything at all, if you happen to have any sort of lead, even if it doesn't feel important, um, you know, they urge you to, to let, uh, you can always submit a tip anonymously. So, you know, yeah, yeah. Please. If anonymously at the very least, if you know something,

anonymously at the very least if you know something say something agreed yeah oh my god well anyway yeah anyway fingers crossed for justice that's fucked up uh so that is the story of lauren spear and um you know we just there's it's just terrible because there's so many stories like this yeah it just makes you scared at least as someone with a child now i'm like ah how will i ever remain calm ever i don't know yeah i think one of the reasons uh having a kid terrifies me is because i know i would just become my mother and tie a leash to my child and never let them leave me. I know there's like such a push and pull of like, you know, go out in the world, be independent. And then you think of something like this where, you know, they go off to college and you're just so happy they're in like a

isolated college community. In the Midwest. In the Midwest with like-minded people. And it's like, you just don't think that's where something could go so horribly wrong. It just becomes really scary when everything feels like a false sense of reality or like a false sense of security. Yeah, that's, that's part of it. And like to think back to, you know, and there was all that kind of media portrayal of her being a party girl and all that. But thinking back on the dumb shit i did so much dumb shit that like was so dangerous and at the time i just felt invincible you know yeah it's amazing i mean i feel like in her case it was just like everyone does dumb shit and sometimes

one person ends up getting hurt because of it or one person doesn't one person doesn't luck out even though there's a sea of people who have done the same thing. Like, exactly. It really I think the scary thing about her story is that she didn't do anything. Everyone I know wouldn't have done. Like, exactly. It could it could have been any of us. It was just dumb fucking luck that it would, you know, unfortunately it was her, you know?

Yep. Precisely. Precisely. So it really makes you, I don't know, sends a chill down the spine, I guess. Yeah. And I just really, really hope that this gets solved, you know, sometime soon. And with that, we've now hit a two-hour episode. Over two hours. I don't know if we do that all that

often but i notice it this time i think we do relatively often i did feel like this was going to be a short story which is usually when our episodes go the longest in my brain and it feels like it's gonna be short the second commentary is welcomed yes we. It's always bad. We opened that Pandora's box and we didn't spend the first 20 minutes talking about our dreams. Okay. Yeah. That's fair. I'm looking through some of our podcast episodes and yeah, this one's definitely a doozy. This was pretty long.

Well, it was fun to catch up. We have our after chat. We also have to do, we actually have two after chat we also have to do we actually have two after chats yes we do lots of chat chat all right well then i guess we'll get to it but if you are a member of patreon please go listen to our after chat also um we're still on tour please go get your tickets if you are in uh the vegas area where i think when this comes out we'll have already done our Carolina episodes or our Carolina shows um oh yeah if uh if we're in a city near you

please come hang out with us and uh I guess that's it that's it and that's why we drink