And That's Why We Drink - E326 Step-Stud Muffins and Microphone Kisses

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

Take a hike... to Superstition Mountain! It's episode 326 and we're giving microphone kisses to spit guards Moonshine has formerly drowned in his water bowl. First Em takes us on a journey of wild abductions in the story of Brian Scott. Then Christine covers the murder of Angie Dodge, a story that makes Em buckle their proverbial seatbelt. And doesn't everyone live in constant fear of being tickled to the point that they want hide in their armpits? ...and that's why we drink!Can you believe we have ONE last live show this season and it's in LAS VEGAS!? Join us May 19th at the Mirage for a creepy good time! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

hello christine my little muffin oh how are you feeling no okay oh i thought you said step muffin i was like sorry you don't want to be blood related to me hello my little step stud muffin i'll be your little biological muffin um ah yummy uh how am i feeling fine how are you feeling i'm sleepy i went to a bachelorette party this weekend oh who's my friend liz who um is my brother's high school friend. And then I moved nearby her in Kentucky and we became close. And so I went down with Dee, my brother's girlfriend, and we went to Red River Gorge and had this beautiful cabin. And it was really fun.

I was going to say, you look very tan. Was that a product of that? No, that was a product of a um a bottle a bottle i found in from australia on amazon so um but thank you for noticing um you're welcome you know there's a hot tub and stuff so i was like i guess i should look a little tan um it worked you look like you're like sun-kissed perfectly thank you i did go hiking one day and oh boy um oh god yeah uh it was a lot it was a lot I it wasn't even that long or that strenuous it was just like at the top there was this natural bridge and it's like this big platform with like basically plummeting cliffs on both sides

and so of course I have I I always think I don't have a fear of heights until I'm on a height and then I'm like oh I'm fearful right now I think everyone has a heights I think everyone has a fear of heights but everyone has a different height they're afraid threshold oh yeah like because well it wasn't even like me like it wasn't me being near the edge it was like anytime someone walked toward the edge I would like stop breathing and be like you need to get away from that right now because if i watch you die you're gonna ruin my whole day see i'm not worried about um i thought i wasn't afraid of heights and then i did a hot air balloon and i was like oh shit i'm afraid of heights that was a bad place to find out you're scared of them i said that and someone was like didn't you go skydiving i was

like yeah i vomited all over the floor afterwards so did you go skydiving? I was like, yeah, I vomited all over the floor afterwards. So did you go skydiving? Do I know this? I don't know. There's a video on YouTube. Please don't find it. A bunch of people have found it. So you'll probably find it. But there's a video on YouTube. into that plane knowing what was going to happen? It's a great question. Um, I, as I, as you know well about me now, I'm extremely good at dissociating. So I just kind of said, I can imagine your YouTube videos. You just like, like, like a thousand yard stare, just totally dissociating in the sky. It was, but I was also, I knew there was a camera. This is the most me bullshit ever. And so I was trying, they were filming it. So I was like being like funny and like joking, but like looking back, back I'm like I don't remember a second of that I just like I think that's what I do on stage at shows I just like leave my body and say good luck I hope you can figure this out yourself and then at least there you can drink wine that's exactly

true yeah I was not allowed I was not given any wine on although on the natural bridge I did have a high noon in my backpack um so I did pull that out to kind of comfort myself, but it was like, then there were people with their kids who were kind of wandering toward the edge. And I was like, I am seriously going to have a panic attack. If any of these kids get too close to the edge, I can't abide by this. Um, but anyway, it was a delightful weekend and I had wonderful fun um and I'm happy to be back here with you um happy Monday happy Monday I I'm I'm having a bit of um I don't know if there's like such a thing as like a flare up for anxiety but like sure is there is there anything so yeah I'm going through right now this is like the third day in a row where like

i like i'm having some trouble breathing and so my then i'm having anxiety on top of that being like this better and before i have to go on tour hang on maybe you knew i was on that bridge and you were like oh no maybe i still i still haven't spiritually recovered your soul maybe my soul visited you and was like my body's on a bridge over there and she's gonna fall off a cliff and you're like oh fuck maybe i did fall and my my soul is still free falling and that's why i'm like feeling so jittery but uh but no i'm i'm uh i have my my body is not allowing me to like relax for five seconds so um i'm a little panicky for fully no reason for no reason so i'm kind of we always have a reason we always have a reason i can't think you know we're going

back on tour i know but shockingly projects i know we're supposed to be but that's who we are maybe i that maybe that's what's happening i'm'm settling into the fear. Your body's like, we're back to our normal routine, our normal bullshit. Well, anyway, I'm hoping that it'll go away in time to see you and be on stage because that's just a total fear tactic of mine. Anyway, if not, our souls can leave our husks behind together and fly away into the sunset holding hands. And Eve will say, come back. And we'll say, no, we can't hear you. Sorry. We're going through a tunnel.

Bye. Well, I will say before I had this flare, it really should have come. I'm not surprised that it's happened. But for the last week, I forced myself to go on a vacation because I was supposed to be on vacation anyway. And so since I ended up staying here, I was like, i'm just gonna like veg the fuck out and like actually breathe because i feel like i haven't breathed in a long time and this is it was this week is all about me i'm gonna breathe some oxygen that's how sad my life's become where i'm like i'm gonna treat myself with a breath a gust of oxygen and so um so i i made myself like not think about anything and i know

in hindsight i'll regret that but like um no you probably needed it i did need it and so it's interesting that as soon as i let myself get back into like work mode i started having like the worst panic attacks i've had in a very long time your body was like oh we're back to this bullshit probably it's such a nice little reset it was so lovely i've already missed that time but it was very worth it so up until if you asked me how i was like you know 72 hours ago i would say i'm having the best time so um you know come see come saw so that's what we say okay so raw so raw all those other foreign languages well christine i have a maybe ufo story for you today oh man this is the abductions of brian scott

uh and this is pretty i mean i'm gonna tell you that it's Bananagrams, but I didn't actually really even deep dive into some of it. And I'm just going to warn people now on that because some of, I found whatever I could in like general internet sources, but apparently there are like books that have come out about this that like go really in depth on some of the details. And I am telling you now, I did not read those. What if that was your vacation last week? you just read a bunch of really long books it's like the world's worst vacation for m schultz well i'll also say that these abduction these abductions specifically that i'm going to talk about are this case the story is a little too wild that i don't know if i would have been able to fully break it down properly so i honestly especially because i was in my treat yourself moment i was like

i know i'm not going to do this justice so i'm just going to kind of keep it simple like okay i mean i think probably for most of us the first time we're hearing of it so i think an overview is fine you know okay yeah and if anyone's like i really want to know that the inner in and out just i have the books yeah yeah i have the the shout out for that i mean it's like nearly impossible for us to touch on an entire several books series in one episode yeah especially when they're things that i mean they're apparently about like the alien world like it would it would feel like i was explaining q anon again like and that oh that was my first thought i was like that was quite a doozy um it took a toll yeah i am on all of us to be honest you mostly but also us so anyway if you want more information i will i will shout out the

book at the end but um this is what you can find with a simple google search and not going any further than that this is and by simple google search i did do several hours to be clear but if you were to google it this is what you'll find so um what's interesting about this case and this is what drew my little peepers to it is that this seems to be a ufo case that based on whatever researcher was studying the case um they came at it from very different lenses i don't know if this is normal in the paranormal world or in the ufo world and i just am unaware of this but this case in particular seemed to announce itself as whoever was studying it uh he could see it as either aliens or a poltergeist or like any sort of supernatural thing all it's almost like an overlap of all the worlds oh okay um there was one quote

that said that this case marries together elements of ufos alien contact poltergeist phenomena spiritual possession and everything in between and everything in between everything runs the gamut full full op no big deal yeah so i was like oh shit like i don't think we've ever had a case where ghosts collab with aliens, you know, so. I don't think so, which is kind of wild, but exciting. So this is I think that's another reason why I didn't get into the book, because I feel like it was really heavily leaning into one direction versus another. And it was just I wasn't going to be able to do like a balance. a balance so anyway so this is uh brian scott's story and it starts depending on the source either when he was 16 or on his actual 16th birthday so i guess either way it was his 16th year of life

is what maybe again it was um the day was october 12th 1959 and he was walking his dog this was in phoenix the whole story takes place in in or around phoenix and as he's walking his dog this was in phoenix the whole story takes place in in or around phoenix and as he's walking his dog an orange orb of light uh this ball of light about the size of a basketball hovered over his dog just appeared out of nowhere and is hovering over his dog's head i don't like that i would first think that like someone threw a basketball nearby and it was about to hit my dog in the head. Stop throwing things at my dog. Yeah.

But apparently he just hovered there. The orb was pretty see-through and it looked like it was more solid in the center and like kind of faded away the further out you got. And the ball or orb all of a sudden moved towards him and stops right in front of his face. So then again, I would think a basketball was about to hit me in the face i go i would fucking duck i'd go i probably wouldn't i'd be like what's that bam so uh as brian looked at it apparently this flurry of images started running through his head and uh as soon as he kind of came to realize that this thing was trying to communicate with him the orb shot off into the sky not to be seen for a very long time

afterwards but although we really get from that is it was his first real experience with something odd um and he deals with like streaks and orbs of light in the future so this was his first encounter with this and he knew it was trying to communicate with them so he knew it was intelligent okay so again you hear orb you think ghost but also images in your head that shoots off into the sky could be an alien we don't know um the next time so that was in 1959 we don't see anything again until 71 um on pi day so march 14th 1971 he's hiking in the desert of arizona and at of course it's called superstition mountains and he's with his friend nick and fun fact superstition Mountain sounds like a place I should just cover on its own. It is allegedly an underground military base, which I feel like you're hiding in plain sight at that point if you're going to put a base under Superstition Mountain.

Nothing to see here. You might as well have a CIA Area 51 space called QAnon Street, something crazy. So anyway, Superstition Mountain has an underground base. Allegedly. There's also a lot of like bizarre deaths that happen there. People have claimed that supernatural voices show up and speak to them or that there are like invisible forces that have either appeared to people or will take over somebody and it will like cause them to like attack the people they're with in the group um people get abducted there apparently the reptilians who i've talked about they are said to live in the mountains um so great place to to go i feel like if i had ever had a single minuscule alien encounter i would just never go to a place called superstition mountain yeah i would just stay inside my home for the rest of my life, I think.

Not that that would help you, but I would feel safer. No, certainly not. So both allegedly, Nick and Brian, they had this weird urge that day to go head in the direction of those mountains without a real plan to have been there so already feeling compelled by something to be there and while there brian looks up into the sky and he sees an oval shaped glowing ufo with purple lights in the sky and it is apparently significantly larger than a normal plane oh boy brian has a gut feeling to run which by the way was not there when a basketball was coming at his face um and the this ufo i guess could i don't know if it was giving him a sense of doom or it

could sense that he had a sense of doom um but all of a sudden it hovers over him as he's about to run away and it was so big once it was hovering over them that brian says he couldn't even see the sky they get covered the sky which makes me think it was always the size of the sky and just being cloaked in some way you know like how do you start as something someone sees over here and then just like it zooms in that you know what i mean or maybe it's really fast maybe it just had like it doesn't use our transportation you know like the tic-tac where it was going so fast and they were like our technology can't do that yeah good point so anyway he looks up again all of a sudden the sky is not there which is cool i can't imagine a more apocalyptic feeling they're like oh also on superstition mountain

we forgot to mention but sometimes the sky just goes away so if you're okay with that let's go hiking i can't imagine talking to someone like me who already doesn't want to go hiking and they're like no no you don't understand sometimes the sun is gone it's like it's fine it's really not a big deal uh so this thing hovers over them he says his body tells him to run but like where are you gonna run if the sky is gone so all of a sudden he feels a quote pulsating pulling feeling go through his body and soon he's being lifted off the ground oh no next thing he knows he is on the ufo surprisingly nick is there too which i can't imagine can you just be like sup nick like oh you're here bro like you didn't get away either um and so they're both i guess just fucking chilling on this ufo and all of a sudden the room begins to fill with fog oh fuck and soon out

of the fog walks quote walks in very horrifying creatures oh no and the fog interestingly seems to soak back into their bodies so i'm wondering like did they like was it a skin fart like did they fart it out and then they like reabsorb it or was there like a special effects team that they walked in and happened to absorb yeah for the first time in turn have to turn the fog machine on or is it like actually part of their was one of them like shouting into the other room like kill the fog kill the sound yeah uh but yeah interestingly i don't know how it first appeared if it was originally in their body or not but it goes into their body okay um and these creatures happen to be seven feet tall a cool seven feet

they have gray reptilian skin similar to a croc or a rhino and uh it apparently on top of its scaly skin has a thick patch of hide over its torso oh like it's on bulletproof vest i get isn't hide like like thick skin or something like raw hide yeah yeah i think hide is like like on a rhino or something like really thick like so maybe it's bulletproof maybe it's just weapon proof in general yeah maybe it's just a safety thing i don't know i don't know sometimes i think about where we should have hide on our body and like i think armpits is a great candidate you know well then how do we sweat that's a good question i just i i will always live in constant fear someone's about to tickle me even if i'm in a room alone i'm just like always

very aware seriously constantly constantly okay you can have your hide transferred to your armpits then i would give anything to have a constant shield for my armpits like probably you could make it smell nicer because it wouldn't be like sweating and stuff. No, it'd be trapped in there. Oh, that's true. I don't know. It depends on how the hide is placed on me, I guess. But no, I live in,

you don't live in the constant anxiety? No, I don't. I didn't know that you did either, to be honest. I never announced it because I thought everyone felt that way. Honestly, I'm thinking like, wow, there's so much I don't know about you. I'm having a little bit of a moment. Oh, that's really embarrassing. It's not embarrassing. I have like other weird fears about like my Achilles heel and

stuff that I'm sure are just me. Oh, well, every time we get out of a car, right? No, not even that. Oh, really? I just saw one time in some show i don't remember which one when i was younger like somebody like slicing someone's achilles heel and ever since i have like it was it was house of wax i think oh i've never seen that but oh well it happens there too i was gonna say it must have happened in multiple movies in our childhood oh i always heard about it because my mom was one of those parents like always warned me that someone was gonna kill me at any moment and they were like, someone would always be hiding under my car

and they try to like, when you step out, they cut your Achilles heel so they can... That's fucked up. Well, that was what my mom used to tell me every day before I got in the car. My daddy used to tell me that if I had the duvet cover on backwards, I would choke on the buttons in my sleep

and die. So i have a deep seated fear about my sheets being on straight that's beyond that's crazier than my armpit i really do like often i'm like i think that's why because i sweat a lot i'm just like lucky that i i really kick on the deodorant i guess like i'm always tense in my armpits because i'm just waiting i think i maybe it's from my own childhood issues where like my dad thought it was hysterical to just like poke you in the armpit and no opportunity got and it's like i still and also in the hip he would always like poke you in the hip because like the the part that gets you that tickles no he just like i think like to like it was like a weird like gotcha trick

that he thought was hilarious in some bad way tickling can be bad like it's it's it's not really i don't promote that for kids it's not good me either i don't like it google it guys it's not good um but yeah anyway that's why i have a weird thing about my armpits because i'm just like what else are you afraid of? Okay, wow. So anyway, we're getting back to the thick patch of hide that I wish I had on my armpit and my torso, I guess, for getting poked there all the time. So, yeah, there was. And then on top of that, these things had three long fingers on each hand that looked like claws.

Nah. So forget that uh brian then described these creatures because i guess he already said it's kind of like a crocodile or a rhino based on the skin but then it's got this weird hide on it and it has claws he described it as a combination of earth animals um which i wonder if that's if they were the aliens were trying to like figure out something that you could relate to and just throw them all together. You know? Yes. I wonder that all the time about stuff like this where there was one story I heard, I think on Astonishing Legends, where he saw like as a kid, he saw these aliens as like circus monkeys almost.

But then like as he grew up, they would like change what they looked like to to make him feel like comfortable of course it didn't work because he's like well now there are circus monkeys in my room i'm not happy about that um but it was almost like an attempt to make them like yeah relate yeah i would be terrified of monkeys for the rest of my life right me too feel like are you a monkey or are you a fucking alien yeah why what are you juggling what's happening so uh brian described them as a combination of earth animals and then the beings uh told brian and nick who's still fucking there um they told them to disrobe yikes and then they were brought to separate rooms so we don't know what happened to Nick.

And now we just know Brian's story, which is that he was taken into his own room. And in this room, there was some technology he was unaware of where the room itself had a supernatural force to it that was able to hold him against the wall while they examined him. And that's as far as we go there. I don't know what type of exam. I don't really need to know. No. But in the room. So basically he is not in control of his body. And there is a pole in the middle of the room with a box on it. It feels kind of like a telephone pole.

That's kind of how it's coming across to me. And the box on the pole has a laser beam coming out of it. Oh, sure. And the beings that were examining him go over to this control box and they shine the laser onto him. And wherever it's hitting his body, Brian can feel warm and cold fluids flowing through him. So he can like, like the laser, he can like physically feel it going through him, which is. Yuck. physically feel it going through him, which is yuck.

When they eventually shined the light in his eyes, he felt instant pain in his head and then immediately his mind goes numb. So it was almost like, it's like a medical procedure of like, oh, we're going to like, it's like, we're going to dilate your eyes, but actually we're going to numb your mind. And after this, a new being walks walks in this one is nine feet tall um and he comes over to brian and touches brian's head brian immediately feels thousands of thoughts and images getting projected into his head just like the orb did yeah and when brian says what do you want it telepathically told him i will tell you i will show you oh i'd be like never mind keep it to yourself i just wanted a

name i just wanted like like one quick word yeah uh the alien or creature then said, there will be no more pain of this. And Brian's head pain goes away. So that's nice. That's good. And the walls of the room all of a sudden transform a la smart house into like some sort of like 360 hologram. And Brian now sees himself standing in a space where he can see a land uh of domed cities so he's like almost seeing i guess like he's seeing the skyline of it um of domed cities and they're all all through mist so he's kind of seeing what i imagine is like if you're in a skyscraper and seeing like

the tippy tops of buildings and everybody's farted skin farted around and so there's fog everywhere could you imagine though if people could if people farted and you could at least see the mist so you knew where to avoid biggest fear biggest fear unlocked besides choking on the buttons of my duvet this is so wild sometimes i've thought you know how they say animals can see things you can't i was like what if they can see farts you know that might be why geo leaves the room a lot and i'm like sorry he's like i know what's happening here well i would like to be able to see them so i at least knew like if i'm getting crop dusted how far away can i get away without having to deal with this you know yeah that's true it'd be useful instead of like just guessing

if my mouth and nose are safe um anyway we've really i'm so sorry everybody but it is a thought that happens way too often in my head so there's a he's seeing this land of dome cities he's in this hologram room and he's seeing a world that he's unaware of. And this being says that what you're looking at is a hologram or a projection of our town, our hometown. Cute. And, yeah, what do you say? You're like, oh, it's beautiful. It looks lovely. Can I go home now?

Yeah. it looks lovely can i go home now yeah um he also says that uh even not only is what you're seeing a hologram but even our identities on board are holograms you called it we are disguising ourselves to you this is a quote from brian that, the gray bulk of flesh. Okay. Could have said it any other way, but just calling someone a bulk of flesh. Yeah. The gray bulk of flesh changed into that in front of his very eyes, changed into that of a beautiful people with long flowing red hair, deep blue eyes, and a golden bronze complexion. I felt a welcome sensation of peacefulness as a voice began speaking within my mind. And it said to me,

we are the children of the stars from time beyond all time. Are they Pleiadians? It sounds like it, right? That word doesn't come up in this, but it sounds like that, right? Oh, it does, except I think Pleiadians have blonde hair. Oh, right. Well, maybe it was like colorblind, you know, and it just didn't know. Oh, maybe. Maybe they just went to Walgreens and bought like a box dye and were like, I feel like I'm standing out this week, you know?

They were looking for an Australian bottle of spray that they could throw on themselves before a bachelorette party. Hey, I've got plenty. Come on. They also said that the reason they appear as gray at first and not as like some beautiful redhead is because they, quote,

wear the gray cloak of sorrow, which like that sounds like depression, just to be clear. I also wear that it's not very comfortable we wear the gray cloak of sorrow in remembrance of our past sit with us now as tonight your journey begins what the fuck so it said this again projecting a cloak of sorrow that's how they appear to people but maybe that hide that we were talking about is involved in this because they said parts of their form um that they're

disguising themselves with is a shield against other biological agents so they don't get sick from other people they're interacting with okay and they told brian that the homeland he had been looking at in this hologram um was what their home world used to look like before a virus came through and killed many of their kind oh shit oh no so that's why they're now wearing the cloak of sorrow to remember their past and now they have a now they have a shield to protect them from biological agents so it doesn't happen again. And then the holographic images of their home world disappears. They're back in the normal UFO room. And now Brian has the ability to move around.

Okay. I also looked it up what Pleiadians look like. And apparently Andromedans have red hair. One day I'll do an episode where I just list them all like just give like a weight a directory of like you know m's unofficial guide to m's very unofficial guide the miriam webster m definition of every alien so anyway so now the they've explained like, you know, where we come from. And the hologram goes away. He can now move. He's not trapped against this force anymore.

And he looks up and the creature is walking out of the room. And I guess he was just done with the conversation. And Brian asks who he is. And this is when the creature turns around i'm imagining very dramatically of course and this is this is apparently in different sources this is the moment where he shows himself as a redhead with blue eyes and more human looking than because the hair has to flip right that's what i'm imagining too it's like a cinderella spin of sorts and he says this creature says i lift the veil of projection i am voltar and then he remembers he was playing a video game this whole time and he accidentally fell

asleep and this was all a bad dream please tell me that's what happens which like by the way voltar seems like such a fucking reckless little alien to be like oh we have all these like strategies and like protocols to make sure we don't get sick we have all these disguises i lift the veil of projection simply because you asked my name you know you knew the secret code by the way i have I have a picture of Voltar for you. And I want you to imagine this is the one dramatically turning around and lifting the veil of projection. I am so amped. Oh, my God. I love it in the bottom.

It's like it almost looks signed Voltar in like a handwriting. So he looks a little he's giving hercules you know like yeah a little bit with that headband the little headband and red hair so immediately it's my only definitely smizing you know he's truly working it he's like ready for the the runway yes um so anyway he turns around says i am voltar and then continues to dramatically walk out and leave. After Voltar leaves the room, more of the beings come in. I wonder if they are in rhino crocodile form or if they're in Voltar form. I don't know.

But they then grab Brian and they escort him to the exit of the UFO, which I like how they're like, your time is done here. Bye bye. Brian gets there, finds Nick. Who knows what Nick just went through. him to the exit of the ufo which i like how they're like your your time is done here bye bye brian gets there finds nick who knows what nick just went through poor nick and uh they both get dressed which i they couldn't do that in their own rooms it's kind of weird to me and then they're slowly floated back down to the mountain okay at least gently yeah instead of just like yeet it off you know yeah so when they get back to their car which like they could have at least fucking dropped you off at the car that's true you had to walk back that's kind of rude i gotta say can you imagine taking me hiking i don't even want to fucking be there then i can't imagine you taking you

hiking but anyway go on then i get abducted and then i have to hike back down yeah no no no no no i've had enough of today i've had enough i've had it up to here so when they get back to the car they realize that two hours have passed and this is super weird as soon as they get home and off the mountain brian notices right away that he is very quickly losing the memories of what had just happened to them. Almost as if they were being erased in real time. Very soon, Brian, like within the same day, Brian entirely loses the memory and wouldn't regain it until years later when he got hypnotized. I was gonna say, I feel like the only way people

end up getting those back is under hypnosis. Well so during hypnosis he discovers that this was the first event of many where he then is later abducted several other times through 1975. Oh no. After one of these encounters that's when Brian started experiencing paranormal phenomena in his house. Oh, no. So now we're like, okay, that was obviously an alien situation, and now we've got some ghost stuff. It's unlocked a new realm or something? So I was going to say this at the end, but you're kind of already hitting it that one of the theories is that i mean a lot of people are coming at this as clearly assuming this is not mental illness clearly this is an alien

experience but then all of a sudden all this weird ghost shit starts happening so are ghosts aliens are aliens ghosts are they like are they distant relatives of each other are do people that have alien experiences um ends up having more paranormal stuff simply because any and all things are attracted to the like elevated energy levels near you so it becomes it becomes this whole conversation for investigators on like where is the line between supernatural things and like how do they work together and do they know of each other oh that is so interesting and then you wonder like is it because you've accessed a certain realm that now like you just have that open door like how when you've talked about people who die on the table and like come back they've kind of unlocked

some sort of access isn't it wow yeah? Yeah. Or like even people like with, what's it, when they can like remember things from past lives because they're so young, like they're still so close to that side. Yes. You know, so. They're still kind of tethered to that other side. Ooh.

So that's the whole like fascinating part of this case is that every investigator came at it from a different perspective and they all had different theories of what it could mean. So anyway, that was the first encounter. But now he's having paranormal stuff happen in his house, mainly that he is noticing a lot of random lights through his house. So he's having streaks of light, balls of light, flashes of light that are so bright that they would blind everybody in the house and then just randomly disappear where this is super weird but i've actually had a a blinding ball of light show up and then disappear what tell me it wasn't at my house it was with my friend brandy and it was the weirdest thing in the whole world it it was not my ghost i think it was the ghost in her house that did not follow me home it was a fly um or is it it's saying shut up shut up

it's like i'm here i'm here so uh my friend brandy she had something that it didn't show up a lot in her house but it happened enough that in high school she would talk about it sometimes that It didn't show up a lot in her house, but it happened enough that in high school she would talk about it sometimes that she would see this like white white apparition or kind of this glow that would show up in her house every now and then. And she was telling me about it late one night and in her house. And I said something like, oh, well, that's got to be good at the time in my mind, I don't know if this is still true, but I believed at the time and still kind of believe it that if you're seeing a bright light, you're probably safe versus like if you see something dark, maybe it's more ominous. But that was kind of the, I don't know, the way I went about things at the time. And I was like, oh, well, you know, that's probably really good. At least if it's a light glow that you're seeing, maybe it wants you to feel safe.

And as I was saying that, I can't explain this. I cannot explain this. And I have talked to Brandy about this multiple times throughout the years to be like, did that fucking happen? But out of nowhere, as I'm explaining it, my hands, you know, I talk with my hands. I remember freezing in time, not of like time froze. Like I remember my hands being stuck like this and me looking around like my eyes could move. But I remember seeing my body frozen. What we were watching on TV was frozen.

Brandy was frozen. Everything was frozen. I was I was stuck in time. All of a sudden, all of a sudden out of in the other room comes this glowing ball of white like a perfect circle of bright white energy floats through her house and like floats right in between the two of us and then like pulsates and grows until it's like the it's covering the entire room what fully bright white light it like explodes in front of us completely gone and. And everything went back into working. Like the TV was on.

We were able to move. Did she see it too? Yeah. And I was like, what the fuck was that? And she was just like, I don't know. That was fucking weird. And had that ever happened before when she saw it? Or was this the first time it like froze time?

It was the first time. It was the first time. That is terrifying. As far as I know, it's never happened again. time it like froze time it was the first time it was the first time that is terrifying as far as i know it's never happened again but it was so freaky it was probably the freakiest thing that's ever happened to me like i never feel like surreal i still think i had to have been dreaming or something but it was as i was saying oh well maybe if it's a light color it wants you to know that you're safe and it's nice and that's when it happened so i always my god so i was like okay well that's a good thing to like show up during. Did you feel like it was confirming that then?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Can you imagine if, as I was saying that, a really fucking dark figure froze time? That'd be, that is, yeah, it was like, you speak of me. Yeah. That is so wild. It was bananas so wow tangent time sorry

about that no that was i mean that was very relevant yeah well so this guy is seeing balls and flashes of light that blind you and then disappear which i can say i've experienced been there and there have been a few uh apparently there were a few people who ended up reporting also seeing this around him and there were random items that would show up through his house there's one quote from an interview where he said a rather odd brown shaped thing that's vague yeah um a brown shaped thing has from time to time shown up in the house it dashes around the room in crazy directions and every time that it does it creates some damage to the home all the electricity and circuits in the house have melted frozen and burned up it sounds like a flying squirrel got in the chimney but

i guess maybe it was not it sounds like some yeah something really obnoxious it's like a pest so then his wife here's the other weird paranormal thing, his wife starts acting weird. Oh, no. She's having fainting spells. She starts mumbling noises and nonsense. Like, he can't understand what she's saying. She apparently starts going into trances where she's acting out of character. where she's acting out of character.

In one interview that he had, Brian said that one time she felt like she, either she felt like it, I didn't totally understand, but either she felt like it or was truly convinced that there were hands all over her body and she was being grabbed and assaulted by these hands. Oh God. Going forward, he then said,

or going further, he said, it was as if from her description, she was describing the aliens I had seen aboard the craft in 1971 had visited her. This is odd because she has never seen any of the sketches I made of those entities. So I don't know if she was actually seeing them and describing them to him or if she was feeling herself be examined like he had been. Oh, yuck. I don't know which one it is. Later that night, he was looking for her in the house and couldn't find her. And this was after she had already said she didn't feel good. She felt like she was like, you know, being grabbed.

And Brian heard something in the bathroom. So he went to go check and see what was going on. He her in there and this is what he had to say this is kind of a long quote but it's you know worth it my wife was on the floor hyperventilating i got her up and onto a chair in the living room i was on my way to call her mother when she just fell flat on her face i called the paramedics and while they were on their way she got up and fell down again. Then she began to become hysterical. It took four paramedics to hold her down. She was throwing people around as if they were tissue paper. Men were thrown backward against the furniture. Finally they loaded her up into the ambulance. Holy shit that sounds like a freaking

possession. Possession. Like an exorcism almost. yeah and as this was happening all of a sudden he's he goes to the playpen to make sure that their one-year-old is doing okay fucking missing no what they end up finding the baby very quickly on the patio but this baby was way too young to be able to break out of its own playpen right and so one of the things that they had been experiencing up until this point was that objects moved by themselves in the home um and now all of a sudden their baby is moving by itself in the home that's yeah it's like that's not an object stop it guys yeah that's that's a whole new level that doesn't count yeah but how creepy that like objects could move by themselves and now on the night where it's really showing its power it's literally like oh and by

the way i can also do this yes forget it further terrify you in the house after this night they kept hearing voices in random rooms that were in random languages so they didn't even know what it was saying um more objects moved on their own and they were able to see apparitions although some say they were aliens um because these beings they could see were bald, big eyed humanoid creatures, which could be an apparition, could be something coming back to visit you like an alien to me. And during all of this, Brian decided that he was going to do hypnotic regression. And during this, this is super creepy. He starts speaking and a voice that is not his. It is mechanical, computerized, and I'm assuming very Microsoft Sam-ish.

Terrible. This voice he called the host. Oh! Sorry, that really took me by surprise. That's terrible. Oh, that gives me goosebumps. Oh, no. that really took me by surprise that's terrible oh that gives cam oh no i guess i'm the the doctors doing the hypnosis were like what's your name and they said the host um and brian was able to channel the host many times after this so one of the other voices that would speak that this was

just one of the voices that spoke through brian the other one was named ashtar um which it's unclear if this was of the ufo world or paranormal or again could be like some sort of mental health issue because sure i don't know i don't know if he was aware of the terminology but people with um did dissociative identity disorder the host host is one of the is like a common word used great points i didn't even put that together so i don't i don't think that's the case but i do want to mention like that's a weird coincidence um but so one of the other voices that are coming through is named ashtar and this is a quote about the host in Ashtar. The voice seems to come out of me,

an inner voice that is not mine. The entity says that I am one with it. When asked if it has a name, it will just come back and say, I am, I am. The other night we heard the same strange sounds coming from the bedroom. I began to speak in a foreign language that we later found out was Greek.

Where that came from, I don't know. I wrote in Greek backwards, too. On top of that, I was writing with my left hand and I am right-handed. The voice was talking. We asked who it was and the name Ashtar came out. Then it began to use the name Ashtar and speak to my wife. It told her things about her past that only she could know. Then it went on to say it would give her all the money in the world. It only

wanted one thing in return, her soul. Here, can I say something? Because when you said I am, it brought me back to the beautiful, lovely, idyllic days of my Catholic school education. Say it because it's what's coming next. Oh, damn. Okay. Say it. Sorry to insert myself. But yeah, I am is like an identifier for God.

It's like a name for God in the Old Testament, I think. And the New Testament. And apparently Ashtar is very similar to ishtar which is like a it's like a one source said a babylonian goddess the other one said was like one of the like consorts for one of the demons or something okay it seems like weird seemed like there was a lot of different ways to connect it religiously yes definitely so like also side note back to the mental health thing like there are so many um instances where people with uh like severe mental health issues like connected to religion um and i'm not again

i'm not saying that's what's happening but but it's an interesting parallel at least. Yeah, exactly. And there is a note from investigators who have said the Master Ashtar, this is a quote, the Master Ashtar appears in much of UFO contact deed literature. One cannot help noting the ancient origin of the name Ishtar Ashtar described always as a god of evil and negativity in the bible there are instances where those who claim to have been forcefully taken aboard of ufos describe an interaction with beings who represent themselves as emissaries of ashtar's grand plan oh god that's overwhelming so uh and that's an excerpt out of the Dragon's Lair. So researchers looked into these voices because they were like, this guy, what the fuck is he talking about? Seriously.

And what character has he conjured up? But so they decided to look at the voices themselves because they always sounded weirdly computerized and mechanical. look at the voices themselves because they always sounded weirdly computerized and mechanical so they wanted to make sure he wasn't just altering his voice and that was this was some elaborate hoax and it was determined that the voices quote produced an exact 1000 cycles per second on an osculography which should have been impossible for human vocal cords. The voice lacked all harmonics and seemed to be nothing but a series of small ripples, and the voice print was different than Brian's, which he claimed would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fake. He being a researcher.

Plus, each of the voices coming out of Brian were completely different in terms of their own analysis. So all these voices are not him or seemingly not him most of the time though even though these voices were coming through and talking it is mentioned often that they they weren't really like quality conversations like they were just kind of saying really simple things um but it is interesting how often the voices would show up they just wouldn't really say anything super in depth um but the host and ashtar would speak through brian often telling him what was coming or what was expected of him and brian was also able to do automatic writings

to learn more information about them he's like i'm writing but it's in greek and it's backwards so yes oh i was joking oh no so weirdly these writings would sometimes be in ancient languages he did not know or he would draw very advanced scientific diagrams he wouldn't have known how to do and brian would then explain that the entities had, tasked him with the mission to master quantum displacement physics and begin to develop a mind transference machine to unite all of humanity. Like, what a tall order. I was going to say, no pressure. You had me at quantum.

Just the word quantum. I don't think any of this. No, no, no, no, no. So another time the host talked to Brian, it told him that he had to go to Bolivia for further answers. But he apparently, when he came back from Bolivia, he actually came back very different. He had like a weird new heightened level of intelligence. He was weirdly a lot calmer. He was no longer a chain

smoker like his whole behavior was different um and then apparently that did not last because either after this or around this time he ends up being um uh he ends up being abducted again and we find out that he's being abducted by multiple groups of aliens so that's a whole other level to this where it's like like apparently he was being abducted by those you know that the redheaded group right first group then he was abducted by a group of greys then he was abducted by a rival group of greys. Like it's the fucking newsies. Like I don't like. So now it's like, well, do all these beings have some.

Because if they're trying to get him to create this machine of mind transference to unite all of humanity. Right. Do they already have this mind transference thing where they all know about him if one group has abducted him? Or have they like kind of put a beacon on him almost by abducting him? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like why are all these beings able to find him or why do they all want him so badly? Or do all of these, is there like some sort of, of you know united nations where all of them know like

he's the one that's going to build this for us and so we're all keeping tabs on him or something this is all bad for him very creepy um at some point during these investigations or people just researching him and studying him um during this time every member of brian's family has at least been hospitalized or experienced one traumatic event so it's almost like something saying stay away and then um at some point he meets this guy jim fraser um who wanted to write a book on brian's case and I think they became friends over the years. And he was like, oh, I want to write about you, but I wish I had some more evidence about your story.

A different source said that he was actually going to help Brian get to Bolivia, but he wanted more proof first before he embarked on this. But he wanted some sort of proof of brian actually being abducted by aliens so eventually uh he says this out loud of like i want some evidence and then at 2 a.m the next morning brian starts speaking in the voice of the host and he says now comes a ball of fire for all of mankind to see. And then literally gives coordinates to look out for. And then within 24 hours later, this massive ball of fire that was reportedly seen by so many people. Oh, my God.

Literally showed up in the sky and parts of it landed. The biggest part of the meteor landed in the coordinates that Brian gave. Oh my, yeah. Be careful asking for proof. You know, it might, might regret it. It might backfire. Yeah. So when Jim and Brian went to go look for this meteorite, they ended up hearing a bunch of weird electronic beeping out, uh, out on their search together. And when they came back, this led to Brian now having weird telepathy and mind reading powers. Oh my God. It never ends for this guy.

It never ends. In 1976. So about a year later, Brian was abducted again and talked with the host. And this instance was apparently the start to the play of life. This is what the host told him. This is the play of life. is what this is what the host told him this is the play of life and you're the star baby yeah i didn't ask i don't remember auditioning for this so this is where i also get confused a lot because it seems like the host is a voice that goes

through him that he's talking through but anytime he's been abducted it sounds like it sounds like the host gave him directions of where to go and then he's been abducted it sounds like it sounds like the host gave him directions of where to go and then he would get abducted and during these abductions is when he would see voltar again okay so it seems like voltar is at the abductions but when he's alone getting instructions it's from the host right okay that's how it's kind of coming off so the host told him oh this is the play of life and eventually when he gets abducted again voltar shows up and says the play of life would end in 40 years of that date and the next phase after the play of life which they don't fucking even

tell you where the play of life is like is that i don't know what's going on yeah i don't have much patience for people who talk in these kind of riddles and i'm like you're making me extremely frustrated and making me feel stupid so like at this point voltair might as well be like a troll under a bridge and like you have to like answer his riddles three to i know it's across i know i'm like i don't have time for this there's only 40 years left well Well, interesting. There was also a note that 40 years is a biblical generation. That's right. I didn't even put that together. Well, so Voltar says, welcome to the play of life.

It will end in 40 years. And the next phase after that is the return of the last UFO, which is like interesting because didn't Star Wars just come out around this time? And the return of the Jedi was like a thing. So listen, I don't know. What year was that, by the way? 76. And it's been 40 years by now. It's been 40 years.

Yeah. And I was gonna say we're OK, but I guess we're not. So maybe that tells you something. We're currently dealing with the return of the last UFO Jedi, I think. So they said when at the end of these 40 years and when we're at the return of the last ufo brian would be a light to all of mankind oh um that was kind of like the last real message he got that that i was able to find online i don't know if there's more in the book but other than that there's not much left we can do but speculate. And a lot of UFO enthusiasts and experts have studied his case. One of the

main researchers into the story and one of the interviews that I got a lot of my quotes from was from a researcher named Tim Green Beckley. And he was one of the people who came at it from a paranormal perspective. He said that the voices, the entities, the occurrences in the house, they could all be paranormal, supernatural, or both. And all of them could be, the reason they're all happening at once is because they're all attracted, quote, to the location due to the extreme vibrations already caused by Scott's ongoing cosmic encounters. Okay.

Okay. already caused by Scott's ongoing cosmic encounters. Okay, okay. So it's like all these encounters are building this, like a beacon almost, like now these other aliens are attracted to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some believe that this is evidence that the paranormal and the UFO worlds overlap in some way we don't understand. That maybe aliens gave him the supernatural gifts,

in which case are they able to tap into things um there's also the the thought that if they're able to see our worlds can they also see our after worlds our other worlds like at what point do dimensions of time and space stop overlapping and how capable are they of seeing these things um reactions to brian's case are very mixed some people think this is real some people think it's a hoax some people think this is severe mental illness sure um and jim frazier the guy that became his friend through this who was researching him he wrote the main book um that i did see excerpts on and i thought about including them in these notes

um it was called transformation of a common man the brian scott story and i say i thought about putting excerpts in but honestly it was like now that we've finished i can say more that like um the excerpts i saw were basically like reading fucking calculus because it was so in depth with like the alien world that he had been researching. And it was like it talked about like the play of life and then things that Brian needed to do when he was having visions of like bombs in the world. And like if he didn't go to Bolivia, then he there was going to be a bomb that exploded somewhere and it comes off a little too mental illness-y for me at first glance that i didn't want to totally promote that um i don't know i didn't read the book maybe i'm totally wrong but the vibe i was getting was like maybe i'm just so out of the ufo worlds that it just didn't register as like fully comprehensible to me i don't yeah yeah yeah i

understand it just seemed like a lot so i was like maybe i don't say this stuff and if you want to read about it you can so yeah yeah that makes sense i mean out of context especially with excerpts it can be hard so yeah yeah yeah but anyway that is brian scott m i've never even and nick he's like always the friend never the abductee well i guess he got abducted too oh um do we know what he's up to now one source said that he was still kicking it one source said that he is not so i don't really know what's going on with him geez um but he survived the play of life i guess um so there's that that is so what year was 40 years do you know what it was it was 2011 so um minus 40 would have been 51 oh it was saying because so he got that like prophecy in 56 and

it was saying since your first abduction which was i think in 71 gotcha so you've been you've been enduring the play of life since you started speaking with us essentially me too that's what i say about m i'm like i keep enduring the play of life aka talking to m and that's why you're uh projected in a cloak of shadows or whatever it is that's why i that's why i live under the shadow cloak yeah whatever it's it's called seasonal affective disorder in my mind but whatever it goes by many names but anyway i yeah i think the thing that really just grabbed me is i'm sure you could do it with every single alien story i've ever covered but the fact that they were mentioning at least in this like what are

the connections to the paranormal world with the alien world like i've never even really sat down with that before so it's a it's a big question because it feels divided like it feels like cryptids aliens and ghosts are all kind of their own thing and it feels like a lot of people will even say like oh i believe in aliens but i don't believe in ghosts or exactly yeah like you it's weird that they could all just be of the same world which in my mind i believe in both i don't know about many cryptids i believe in but they could all be the same thing i mean a lot of people think that mothman is an alien right so some people think sasquatch is real but aliens are not or vice versa or ghosts but not bigfoot

you know it's it i listen on astonishing legends they get made fun of a lot for saying everything is connected but i think it is in its own way you know i think if you're gonna believe in one thing that doesn't have a lot of backing you can you might as well just might just dive in keep keep at least keep an open mind at that point. Yeah, I think an open mind is the best way to put it. Yeah. Wow. M good story. Thank you. So I have a story for you today.

This is the story of Angie Dodge. And I hadn't heard this one before. It has a couple twists and turns. So buckle up, if you will. If you don't mind. Hang on. Whoa. It sounded like you were loading a If you don't mind. Hang on. Hang on. Whoa. It sounded like you were loading a gun, but I guess.

Hang on. Okay. Hang on. Rewind. Hang on. Okay. Ready? Yeah.

Click. Okay. That's better. Okay. I'm buckled in. Well, you're just too good at the Foley, you know? That's me. That's you. That's you.

So, Angie Dodge. you know um that's me that's you so angie dodge her family moved to idaho falls in 1984 which was a tight-knit majority mormon community where everyone kind of seemed to know everyone and angie was the youngest of four and she had three older brothers and when she was born her dad was so excited to have a daughter that he skipped into the hospital, like in Goliath, which I think is so sweet. According to Angie's mom, Angie came into this world with many talents. She was always busy. She was bubbly, intelligent, responsible, and independent. And a friend described her as wanting everything out of life.

But, of course, the happiness can't last in my story. Never has, never will. Never has, never will. So on June 13th, 1996, Angie was tragically murdered in her tiny top floor apartment where she had only lived for three weeks. Oh shit. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty dark. So she had moved in after a disagreement with her mom about a house rule because she had just turned 18. So she and her mom had an argument about like living under her roof. So she had moved into this, you know, new apartment and was only living there a couple weeks. But the day before she died, she actually went back home to see her mom. went back home to see her mom. And her mom, Carol, said, the night that she came over, I rocked her. And I said, I'm so glad you're not mad at me anymore.

And she just looked up and said, not even in a blue moon. Oh, my God. I know, I'm gonna cry. But of course, the next night, several friends had come and gone from her place. And after 12.30 a.m., nobody heard from angie again uh on the next morning when angie didn't show up for work her co-workers thought it was so out of character

for her that they actually left work and drove to her apartment to check on her they found her door ajar and they found angie dead in her bedroom i feel like if you see a i mean if i ever saw a door open to a place just immediate it's not good i'm not going in there i'm gonna get somebody who's capable to go in there yeah i'm not like i won't even allow anyone i know to go in there i'd be like no call somebody who is equipped for this kind of thing yeah yeah so police arrived and Yeah. who was on the scene remembers there was a lot of anger a lot of humiliation involved in this crime so horribly oh gosh my heart a little bit later Angie's mom called Angie's work to invite her out to lunch oh god she has no idea she had no idea and police hadn't contacted her yet um because it was you know just a couple hours later and so one of angie's co-workers was on the phone and heard her mom say like hey i was wondering if

angie could come to lunch with me and the co-worker didn't know what to say so she said angie's been found dead you need to go to the police station yeah what do you say i know like how do you get like obviously the other person's gonna know something is terribly wrong like even if you say even if you say i think you need to hang up and call the police right now like that's so much worse like that's almost like yeah exactly exactly at that point you might as well just say hey look this is what happened you know that that poor co-worker is probably like i just wish i never picked up the fucking phone honestly honestly like but then like when would the mom have found out you you know, like, right, exactly. And someone else would have picked up the phone. So it's like, oh, it's just a losing situation. So of course,

Carol was in total shock. The whole town was in shock. Idaho Falls averaged zero to one murders per year. So this is like, especially something this brutal was just unheard of um and then especially the fear of knowing that the killer is out there somewhere you know yeah Angie's funeral was a crowded event but afterward and this is the part that I think about a lot when I watch true crime shows her mom felt like the world had left her behind she said everyone went on with their lives except me I would look outside and say these people don't they realize my daughter has been killed and yeah I just I know that feeling on a much smaller level of like if I'm if you're going through grief or like trauma

and you sort of look around and you're like does nobody care yeah the world goes on and it's like of course it does but it just feels like such a personal isolating attack like don't you know how horrible things are falling apart especially because yeah i'm and i know all of us either have or will one day have to have that feeling hit us and it's um but to know that it was also like a brutal attack on someone you love just feels like a whole additional layer to it. Absolutely. Not only did the world move on and they probably thought like, oh, well, everyone deals with death or whatever, you know. Latitude.

A lack of lack of empathy you could have. But to know on top of it, like my my experience was particularly gruesome and people still moved on. And it has to be even more of a lonely feeling. But the part of it, too, is like, you know, there's no choice. Like people have to move on like they're you know, it's it's not it's like your world is just like shattered. But, you know, people have to go to work and live their lives. And it's like no matter what happens, things just keep on rolling. It's just a really hard thing to swallow.

So police quickly ruled out Angie's closest acquaintances, like her boyfriend and the friends that were at her apartment that night, who were all the last ones to see her alive. her apartment that night, who were all the last ones to see her alive. And the way they did this is that all of them, A, had alibis, but they also, the police had the semen sample. And this was obviously very compelling DNA evidence. And so everyone, boyfriend, any male friends that were there gave DNA samples to exonerate themselves and to aid the investigation. So all of them were cleared. Pretty quickly, investigators kind of ran out of suspects. And Carol began to, of course, just replay over and over, you know, the last few days before the murder, trying to think like, is there anything she said to me that could be a clue? Yeah. And so Angie, she remembered Angie telling her mom, I did something really stupid but then kind of

you know shut it down and refused to say anything else and Carol didn't want to like push her yeah thought oh well it must not be important and of course now is like kicking herself thinking I wish I had begged for more information so Carol also thought maybe Angie had fallen in with a bad crowd or maybe you know had gotten in between two people who had a conflict. But either way, Angie spent a lot of summer days hanging out at a place called the Snake River. And this is where most teenagers and young adults were spending their time, especially during the summer. And she had a tight circle of friends there, one of whom police were especially interested in. So this guy's name was Chris Tapp, and he had encountered one of the detectives on the case before.

So he kind of had a personal connection with one of the officers. Detective Furman worked at the school that Chris went to growing up. And since Chris had been in trouble a few times for, like, behavioral issues, he kind of already had a relationship with this cop. Knew each other well. Yeah, yeah. Maybe not like on the best of terms, but, you know, they're aware of one another. I understand. So Angie and his other friends knew Chris had struggled with addiction in the past and they were trying to be kind of his support system.

One friend described he was just so lighthearted, such a dedicated friend. We liked the guy, so we kept him. He needed some good friends to take care of him. So Chris eagerly agreed to help with the investigation along with all of Angie's other friends. They all answered questions. They provided alibis, submitted DNA tests, and like I said, none of them were a match. Carol, Angie's mother, went to the police station every single day, but there was just never any new updates. And it seemed like investigators had hit a dead end. So the way Carol described it is, quote, the anger just surged through me. And that's when I just went to the streets and put 60,000 miles on my truck looking for the murderer. So she's sort of like vigilante

justice now, you know, like looking for looking for who this could be. Doing whatever she can. Yeah. Yeah. So she decided to take it into her own hands and launched her own investigation. She she decided to pursue any information she could find about her daughter's death. You know, she was really struggling to find anything. But then one of Angie's friends was arrested in Nevada for raping a woman at knife point. Oh, geez. And they were like, well, that's a good fucking clue. Yeah. So Ben Hobbs was his name. And he had been so close with Angie, actually, that he carried flowers at her funeral, like he was part of the funeral. So now he suddenly became the prime suspect in her killing. While in custody for the Nevada rape,

Ben said he would fully cooperate in the murder investigation. And he told detectives, honest to God, I had nothing to do with the murder of Angie Dodge. I wouldn't kill my friends. Then he asked- But you would do some other stuff, right? Yeah, I would kill someone else or I would rape someone else at knife point, but not a friend, you know.

Yeah. Then he asked, was she raped the night she was killed? Because if she was, my DNA will prove my innocence right there. And he was right. The DNA at the scene did not match to Ben. Oh, okay. to Ben. But it was still a very odd similarity that, you know, he was so close to Angie and then had been arrested for this other similar crime. So, of course, with no physical evidence, they needed a confession. So they brought Ben Hobbs, Chris Tapp and a third friend,

Jeremy, in for questioning. And all three men were adamant that they had nothing to do with the murder. And police at this point are like, OK, we're going to separate these guys, these friends, and try to get them to flip on one another. Like they're thinking that several of these guys were somehow involved since they were all such close friends. So police are trying to get the men to turn on each other. They're offering promises and plea deals. And Jeremy and Ben are just holding their ground and talking back to police like, no, I didn't fucking do this.

Like, you can say whatever you want and promise me whatever you want. But like, I had nothing to do with this. Chris, on the other hand, seemed a little more vulnerable. So he told Detective Furman that he trusted him since he had grown up respecting this man as an authority at school. And so at home, when Chris's mom expressed concern about like how much this detective was kind of bothering him and like questioning him, he told his mom,

he's my friend. Like he's not going to basically like, he's not going to do anything bad to me or like trick me. Like we've grown up together at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Like he knows me from childhood. This this guy is not going to.

I mean, little did he know this cop was convinced that he did it. So, yeah, you know, he was a little too trusting, I guess, in this in this authority figure. So as I just kind of hinted at, Detective Furman was not actually Chris's friend like Chris thought. He was determined to find Angie's killer and he had become convinced that Chris and his friends were involved despite a lack of evidence. And that's when police developed a new theory that Ben and Chris had indeed been involved with Angie's murder but Jeremy was not. Instead, an unknown third man was there and that's whose dna they had interesting yeah they're now basically saying ben and chris were involved with the killing but the person who raped her and that dna was from a

third party we have not yet identified i can't imagine like having to investigate a case and you're looking for one person and then it's fucking three and you're like, oh, oh my God, it just got so much harder. You're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is so convoluted. It's like, oh my God. Yeah. You just want everything to be so simple. Just like, you know, wrapped up in a nice little bow so on february 7th 1997 chris was charged with rape and first degree murder

with a deadly weapon based solely on a confession chris did in fact confess to being an accessory to angie's murder he had allegedly held her arms down while another man attacked angie and at one point they passed him the knife and he cut her just once on the chest. So when the case went to trial, Chris's mom remembers thinking, what in the world have you gotten yourself into? And how in the world am I going to get you out of this mess? And there was no way of getting out of it. So Carol Dodge, this is Angie's mom, didn't understand why they were convicting someone with no physical evidence. But the police

just kept telling her he confessed carol he confessed like what more do you need he confessed to this crime okay the judge did did acknowledge the judge did acknowledge the lack of evidence and said with no confession there would not have been a conviction for this crime and with no evidence and no confession from ben chris was the only one who could be charged with angie's murder so on march 28th 1998 chris was found guilty of the crime and at the sentencing he pleaded for life in prison instead of the death penalty he told the judge my death would be another tragic loss for another family i am not the monster or animal that everyone thinks I am. So he did indeed get life in prison for the murder and another 20 years for the rape.

And so this means he wouldn't be eligible for parole for 30 years. So, yeah, it's it's a doozy. So when court adjourned and Angie's family passed by Chris's broken hearted mom, Angie's brother said, Carol died twice. I hope you're happy you still have your son because I don't have my sister. So basically like salt in the wound to the mom whose son just went away for life. Yeah. After the trial, Carol said, I was finally looking somebody in the eyes who I thought was the devil that had taken my daughter's life. Well, as you kind of already guessed, the story is not quite over because even though Chris was

behind bars, one of Angie's killers was still at large, supposedly, since they thought it was like a mystery man out there. And Carol was like, listen, fine, we've got this one guy behind bars, but if there really is another killer out there, like I want him in jail. I want to find him. really is another killer out there like i want him in jail i want to find him so also am i missing something but i feel like if chris were gonna plead for life in prison i feel like if he had the bargaining chip of like i know the other guy true i feel like i feel like he would have just been like i'll tell you the other guy if we can like get my sentence lowered okay well hold on to that thought oh okay okay hang on hang on hey let me check my seatbelt oh yeah oh that's something i've got again hang on what's the sound when like you get locked and

you can't move this the seatbelt oh it's like it's like it's like click i don't know i'm clearly not very good at sound effects i'm trying to think i all i know all i hear is me being so frustrated it's like and then i yeah that's hang on and it's like click and then it's me going god damn it yeah yeah i'm usually just swearing and going uh all right well i'm still buckled in so we're good and i've readjusted thank god okay airbags are ready just in case okay so let me find my spot you giving the mic a little kissy yes look at you sometimes moonshine carries this foam part around the house so i should probably not put my mouth on it oh does it smell like cat breath no he just likes to carry stuff around and then put it in his water bowl and drown it.

So foul. Yeah. Yeah. Well, OK, so like I said, Angie is now on the hunt for this final mystery person. And so she went to police and requested copies of all the videotapes recorded during Chris Tapp's interrogations. And she's kind of looking at these tapes and she basically wants to watch them and see if there are any clues as to

who this person could be that helped Chris commit this crime. Investigators had recorded nearly 100% of the interrogations and they gave Carol all the tapes. And that's when things started to take a weird turn because in court, the prosecution had chosen select tapes to show the jury, which made Chris look guilty without a shadow of a doubt. But when Carol started watching them from start to finish, she got a funny feeling and she began to see a different story playing out. At the beginning of the tapes, Chris was adamant that he knew nothing about Angie's death, but the detectives just refused to accept that, and then they started to feed him information. So Carol was a little confused, and she wanted answers,

so she decided to reach out to a professional, and so this was over a decade after Angie's death that she reached out to the famous DNA scientist, Dr. Gred Hampikian, who worked for the Innocence Project. So in a wild twist of fate, Dr. Hampikian had already taken on Chris Tapp's case recently for the Innocence Project. So he was already working on Chris Tapp's case when Angie's mom reached out to him. Oh, okay. Chris Tapp had appealed Angie's mom reached out to him. Oh, OK. Chris Tapp had appealed his conviction several times from prison and was insisting he was innocent.

So now Dr. Hampikian and a public defender named John had agreed to represent him. Dr. Hampikian told Carol he was working to free the man convicted for her daughter's murder. And she said, I just want to know what happened to my daughter. She's like, you know, I'm not my mission isn't necessarily to keep that guy in jail. I just want the truth of what happened. I just want information and closure. Yeah, exactly. She told Chris's team to please review these interrogation tapes she had gotten from the police because she felt like something wasn't right. They did and they were stunned.

Detectives subjected Chris to nine interviews and six polygraph tests, adding up to over 40 hours of questioning, most of which his lawyer did not attend. His lawyer was not present for most of this questioning. He told Detective Furman, who, again, he considered a friend and an authority figure that he looked up to and respected and felt safe around. He told him that he trusted him and wished he could help. And Detective Furman started playing what Carol calls the hypothetical game, where they would feed Chris scenarios and try to get him to agree hypothetically. Gross. And because his lawyer wasn't there, it was like a... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm a he was just vulnerable in that position

so here is a transcript from that quote-unquote game okay i'll read both detective firman and chris what if you did okay cut her once okay so you cut her once chris i know i didn't cut her okay so you got a hold of the knife? No. He passed the knife off to you, obviously, okay? And it's all right, Chris. I didn't take it, okay? Damn. So hypothetically, if Chris Tapp was holding onto Angie as she was being cut and some of the other stuff was going on and Chris Tapp took part of that in any way, shape, or form in cutting her, okay? But I didn't. Would you listen to me?ris sorry detective okay hypothetically i said if you took part in any of that that's okay because you're still here you're still showing

some good faith that you want to cooperate so this is like how the whole thing went it was like so manipulative yes it was it was like they were they were like luring him into this like weird hypothetical world where like it was so gaslighting it was like anytime he said but i wasn't there and they're like i said hypothetically are you listening to me you know yeah yeah it's really gross and so of course they're all watching this going uh-oh you know this is not this is not okay so detectives told chris in the tapes that they could offer him immunity and that anything he said that incriminated himself would be tossed out as long as he helped bring in angie's other killers so remember when you said oh didn't he relationship yep apparently he did and they just fooled him oh yeah wow so they were hoping that jeremy chris and ben might all implicate each other but carol said ben and jeremy were much

smarter and chris what i realized because detective firman was a school cop chris trusted him he kept saying you've got to trust me chris just trust me chris was taught to follow adults and he was a follower so he really is just trying to do the right thing and just remember that show making a murderer did you ever watch that um no okay so i remember that being like one of the first i think it was like when i was living in glendale and it was like one of the first like true crime docu-sereries that like became like a huge hit. And I remember watching it and being like mind blown. It was basically about how, you know, false confessions and how people who might have like a lower IQ or like.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think maybe I watched this. I feel like it was so long ago now. It's hard to remember. His sister became a lawyer to be able to help him or something. That sounds right. I don't really remember, but that could very well be. Okay, it's been so long.

But I do remember that being the first blockbuster hit of a true crime documentary, I remember. documentary I remember and to be honest I don't remember like the outcome of all that but I clearly remember feeling like oh it was so obviously him like who says they did it when they didn't do it like that's ridiculous and then you watch it and you're like oh shit you can see how somebody could be manipulated and like just totally gaslit into confessing something they didn't do. And so I think it's, it really is seems like a more common thing than we realize. So basically that's what she's saying.

Like he just wants to cooperate. He just wants, he genuinely trusts this guy, this cop. And so he was just used as a pawn and put behind bars. Yeah. So the detective started telling chris details that only the killer should know like details about how brutal the stabbing was what angie was wearing and where she lived because chris didn't know any of those details so they would like ask him where does she

live and he'd go i actually have no idea but then they would start feeding it to him and then he would like know the information and imagine 40 hours go by and you're like, yeah, she lives here. And they're like, so you do know where she is. And it's like, wait, you told me, you know, that's the most like it just it's so unsettling so on camera detectives ask chris questions about the killing and chris started making vague guesses like he just wants to pass this quote-unquote like test they're giving and go home yeah yes and they're just and that's the other thing that's a good point m i feel like a lot of times in these scenarios they're saying like okay after this you can have a soda or you can go to bed you can go home and like all you want to do is get out of there you know also isn't there like a rule of like you can only hold someone for so many hours or something so maybe yeah if they're not uh arrest if they're not like uh arrested for a crime i think yeah okay so on uh on camera detectives ask chris about

the killing and he's making these vague guesses, clearly trying to please them to keep this immunity deal. And when he got every guess wrong from what Angie was wearing to what room she died in, the police would correct him and be like, you mean she was wearing this? And he was like, yeah, yeah. You know, you mean she died in this room? you know you mean she died in this room it's i i thank god carol the the mom said like you guys should re-watch this because something goes off but also i feel like anyone watching that should have been able to like notice some alarms go off of like this is fucking weird like yep but i'm glad she stood up for him and like said something especially when she really thought he killed her daughter at first you know

like that must be really hard to like 180 and backtrack on that yeah so during the polygraph test detective steve finn would come in between questioning and tell chris he failed the polygraph so they knew he was lying like they were just making shit up they were like you know we know you're lying to us we can tell based on this polygraph so scared chris would change his story again and then they told chris you have a very strong reaction to the name angie dodge and chris said i'm scared and the detective said i'd be scared too murder is murder oh it's like they i think i mean part of me thinks like they really just convince themselves this is our guy no ifs ands or buts like we're not going to second guess murder oh it's like they i think i mean part of me thinks like they really just convinced

themselves this is our guy no ifs ands or buts like we're not gonna second guess ourselves or could they have been like they just i mean i don't know but i have a general initial distrust sure like world like could they have just been like wanting to find someone to lock up so they could be done with it like yeah i mean i think like part of it been, like, wanting to find someone to lock up so they could be done with it? Yeah, I mean, I think, like, part of it probably is, like, we want to solve this case. And we have this guy on the hook. And he's done criminal stuff in the past. Or he's gotten into trouble.

Yeah, and it's sort of like, I think they just kind of convinced themselves, like, well, this must be our guy. So let's just wrap it up and put him in jail. Okay. I don't know the motive or anything, but I don't know. I don't know. I can't really explain it, but the detective told Chris the polygraph was picking up on lies because Chris subconsciously remembered being at the crime scene. And on camera, Chris said, if I was there, I'd remember it, wouldn't I? Wouldn't I remember it? That's my thing. I don't remember it. And the detective said, there's no doubt in my mind right now. You were in the apartment. And Chris said, I would remember that. Anyone would. And Steve says, on the charts, it's saying to me you were there, which is a polygraph test. And detective said,

subconsciously you remember, but you don't want to. And detective said, subconsciously, you remember, but you don't want to. You don't want to admit you remember. And Chris said, I wasn't there. And they said, seeing someone go off like that. And he said, I wasn't there. And they said, would just be horrible. And he said, I wasn't there, you know. And the detectives say, I'm not saying you were. I'm like, OK, but you literally are. But OK. Like so, so clearly you are. Yeah. That's the opposite. Yeah. The detectives say, I'm not saying you were. And Chris says, you're trying to put me there. And detectives say, no, I'm not saying you were. It's like,

just run around. You know, it's just circling. It's nonsense. So in the end, Chris had been exhausted, coached and manipulated into finally reluctantly confessing that he cut Angie once and held her arms down while another man raped and murdered her. Police told Chris if he could give them that man's name, his immunity deal would hold up and he would be exonerated. So in another polygraph test, detectives asked him to name the man, and detectives had previously suggested to chris that the man was his friend jeremy chris said he knew they wanted him to name jeremy so he just picked that name and oh god he said it as if asking if it was the right answer like i don't

know jeremy question mark and police told him the polygraph said he was finally telling the truth and they praised him like he passed a test gross yeah so only minutes later chris started backtracking on accusing jeremy but it was too late so detectives used this quote-unquote tip to get dna from jeremy but guess what there was no fucking match to the semen. And so they told they said, Chris, you told us Jeremy was there. Now we find out you're screwing with us. And he's like, no, I didn't. It's just so infuriating to read. And like, I just wish.

His lawyer had been there, you know? Yeah, no, totally, especially I mean, to say like, I don't know, Jeremy. And to say, oh, now the likeeremy and to say oh now the pot like that's where i'm wondering about like maybe they didn't have any bad motives but if they were so convinced that they were blind to evidence of saying like oh well the polygraph says that you pass but like it sounds like no matter what they were going to say it passed even if it clearly didn't pass they would have excused it. I think they just were using that as an excuse to like try to get the right answers.

I mean, the right like the ones they wanted to hear the story they'd already decided on. Yeah, precisely. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. That lawyer needed to be there. It's just too bad. So after all this, after this Jeremy thing, they get the DNA results. It's not Jeremy. They tell Chris his immunity deal was off because he lied to them. And Chris was stunned because now he's backed into a corner where they said, you're not going to get in trouble for anything you say.

And now they say, well, you lied to us. So actually, you are going to get in trouble for everything you've said. So the police were the ones who suggested Jeremy was present. Chris had only agreed after they convinced him his memory was unreliable and that he couldn't trust himself. And he said at this point, can I just go back to the beginning? I was never there. I was never involved. But, of course, now it's too late because they have all this on tape.

But of course, now it's too late because they have all this on tape. Despite the absolute lack of evidence, they also charged Jeremy with accessory to a felony. The charges were eventually dropped, but Jeremy's name became linked to this murder and it basically ruined his life. Like he had to move out of town and he was only implicated at all because the police were like feeding this information to Chris who then spat it back at them so even though Jeremy never went to prison for this like it followed him and he had to leave town and try to start fresh somewhere else so it really just wrecked his life so the innocence project learned that there was more DNA evidence at the scene that investigators had never tested and those were pubic hairs so they had these analyzed and the pubic hairs matched the semen and carol said when they have dna not once but twice that belongs to the same

person and it's not chris tap the one who's in prison something is wrong the dna scientist said someone went in and committed a typical violent i hate that it says typical, but that's what the quote is, a typical violent rape murder and left typical evidence on the victim that pointed to an identity, an actual single person. They have a perfect profile, but it wasn't Chris. So now fully convinced of Chris's innocence, Carol went public in a Dateline interview in 2012 where she publicly demanded chris's release oh shit now she's like championing championing for him to get out of prison good for her though it is amazing it's amazing it's amazing strength and you know she was saying at the courthouse that she was looking into the eyes of the the devil who killed her daughter and now she's like you know what i was wrong and it's it's wild

how your brain can tell you like to think you're truly looking at a full-blown demon of a human being and then to be able to change is then a few years later being like on tv saying you know this man is innocent and his his family deserves to have him back home yeah it's it's quite a turnaround. So on the Stateline episode, she demanded, let him go. It's the only thing his mother has. It's her only child. Let him go. So Carol started working with a public defender that had been assigned to Chris's case. And she also reached out to an expert in false confessions, whose name was Steve Drizzen. And Steve said, I don't get calls from the victim's family members, and I was just so impressed by her.

Here she was actually standing up for a new trial for the man who had been convicted for murdering her daughter. So this is just really, she's a strong lady. He said, when looking at the tapes, that it was, and again, this guy is the expert on false confessions he said it was the worst confession he had ever evaluated and it became the confession yeah that has got to mean something and he said it was a confession that kept him up at night he said it was a textbook case of psychological coercion and he said this isn't chris's confession this is jared firman's fantasy of how this crime occurred and there's no evidence not only is chris locked up for a crime he didn't commit but the man who did kill angie dodge is still out there so it's like

a lose-lose because an innocent man's in jail the one who did it is still roaming free nobody got real justice like it's it's all just bad. So another nonprofit got involved and they're called Judges for Justice. And they reviewed the investigation and published reports from polygraph experts and retired FBI agents who all agreed the investigation was flawed. So the report stated they manipulated Mr. Tapp through a series of explicit threats and promises, used false evidence, a host of leading questions, and continually contaminated the interrogation by disclosing non-public details of the crime scene. So they also called for him to be freed.

Chris's friend Jeremy had always been angry at Chris for implicating him in the crime, understandably. Sure. But when he finally got to see the interrogation videos for himself in 2016 he actually forgave his friend oh wow and okay yeah which i'm sure was also a hard situation to go through he told dateline they just took it too far they broke his brain you can just see him crumbling it's just so sad that's such a sad imagery of it. It is. It is. DNA evidence had vastly improved by now, like over the years that this had been going on. So once again, evidence was sent for advanced testing, including touch DNA, which I think is so incredible. It's

basically like skin cells that are left behind just by touching like an item or a doorknob or what have you. And so this time DNA matching the semen was everywhere, all over the apartment. The killer had left skin cells and other DNA evidence all over the room. But with that in mind, they also found no DNA evidence to suggest that anyone else was present. It looked like there was just one killer. And since it wasn't chris well so what was the um why didn't they do touch evidence before so uh they it'd been years and technology had advanced so far that they could do that but back in the 90s it just wasn't on the table yeah

got it got it got it okay if something happens me, make sure they do that shit. The touch evidence. I will. I will. I'll go on Dateline. Okay. So despite all this new information, Idaho still refused to consider a retrial for Chris. I know. I know. It's infuriating. It's just like all this red tape and stuff makes me crazy because it's like in front of everyone's face but they just don't take that step when it's that obvious too there have been some like not a good frame of reference but i've watched a lot of law and order svu yeah and there have been some episodes where like they know the person's innocent and just like still won't let him leave jail and i'm like how does that fucking work like

like it's a lot of paperwork yeah i'm like oh my god so it's the fact that that's real i just keep hoping that's like a hollywood setting yeah it's very upsetting it's like you know it's just like too many hoops to jump through sometimes or like two people need to sign off on it and like if one person refuses then it just doesn't go anywhere. That kind of thing. Yeah. So a former criminal investigator of Idaho was hired to review the entire investigation. And after 14 months and $36,000 in September 2016, he said the confessions were tainted, questionable or unlikely. But this still didn't acquit Chris. So the review admitted there was no evidence chris was present but he still believed he was somehow present was where they landed so carol was

outraged and her response was i don't know how he's there but he's there you paid 36 000 for someone to say that science excludes chris tap which I love that. She's like, fucking science says. She was like, I'm going to be a shark about this. Like, make it. Let's be clear here. Let's be fucking clear and stop fucking around over there, faffing around. And good for her. Like, why is someone in there on a hunch that like nobody else has a hunch on?

Like zero people have proof of and that he's now saying i wasn't there you know yeah so finally thank god a new judge looked over the case and on march 22nd 2017 the judge oversaw a resentencing chris's murder conviction would remain but the rape conviction was dropped and he would be able to get out of prison immediately so chris's lawyer tried to talk chris out of it but chris at this point would do anything to be out of prison immediately. So Chris's lawyer tried to talk Chris out of it. But Chris, at this point, would do anything to be out of prison, even if it meant legally remaining a convicted murderer. He was like, I don't care anymore. Just put that on my name and let me out of here. Yeah, he's like, whatever it takes. Yeah, which is also not fair. You know, like now you have

to live the rest of your life this way. carol dodge took the stand in chris's defense and chris cried as she spoke and when he was freed chris fell into both the arms of his own mother and carol oh and the three of them held each other and cried oh my god oh wow that's that's rough yeah that's rough chris's old friend jeremy that he had implicated walked up and held him too as they both cried and said i love you my god it's like a movie i know i have goose cam chris stepped out of the courthouse to applause from the crowd that was waiting outside he said i want to see what life has to offer and prove that i'm worth something then he thanked carol for being his loudest voice and he

said now that his story was over it was time to find justice for angie he said i have to honor angie i have to stand up for angie detectives continued to insist that they knew chris tap was guilty are you fucking kidding me i know i know my god yawn yawn old news get out of here go home find a new story take a hike take a fucking hike take a hike on superstition mountain you know what i'm saying take a hike to the bridge the natural bridge on superstition mountain take a take a hike to voltars riddle me three bridge oh and, and stay there. So detectives continue to insist he was guilty and that the interrogation tapes would prove it. But in November 2018, Carol Dodge contacted a famous genetic genealogist named Cece Moore.

And Cece Moore used genealogy DNA from databases like Ancestry.com to narrow down potential relatives of the murder. And this is, you know, the kind of thing we've all seen with the Golden State Killer and just being able to link family trees via DNA to find, you know, cold case killers, that kind of thing. So they did this. And in the end, police were led to a man named brian l drips senior who lived across state but when they looked into it he at the time of angie's murder had lived across the street from her and he also happened to have moved away shortly after her death so investigators matched the crime scene dna to one one of Brian's discarded cigarettes. And pretty much immediately upon bringing him in, he folded and admitted it. He said he had been high on coke that night and really drunk and he intended to rape Angie but not murder her.

They said he kind of slumps a little bit. He was silent for a couple of minutes and then he just said, I did it. I raped her and apparently I killed her. The case was finally closed. So in June of 2021, Brian was found guilty of Angie's rape and murder and sentenced to life in prison. And at the sentencing, one of Angie's brothers said, Chris Tapp should be given the opportunity to voice his nightmare to this court he served and lost 20 years of his life because of mr drips it's also it i mean there's no right way for it to have gone but there's it's still so infuriating i'm sure for chris but even for me like someone who's hearing this for the first time that he went through all of that like mental torture then he went through 20 years

of prison when this guy came in and within five minutes like didn't need any twisting didn't need any bending he was like oh yep it's me like it would nobody would have it would have taken five minutes of police work yep if he just walked in if they found to get him i know and it's like so frustrating because like he was never even on anyone's radar because he just walked in if they found to get him i know and it's like so frustrating because like he was never even on anyone's radar because he just moved away and stayed low profile so i mean and understandably they looked at her friends first because it's like of course usually if you're raped or and killed it's by someone you know like that's you know so i understand the like initial interest in these people but it's like

when the evidence is not lining up and the person's saying they didn't do it like you you know it's worth looking a little broader and considering other avenues i don't know it just would have it would have taken five minutes for a conviction like had had they just found him first which like i get like i get why things happened the way they did and like who they were looking for first. But the fact that this guy had to lose so much of his life because this guy just never got found. And then like,

and so there's, it really is just so angering that like how quickly he folded. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like you think for, Oh, you've been in hiding this whole time.

You could, you would at least put up a fight or something. Either it would be bad there's no good way but it just feels feels worse it's almost like after those 20 years he was just waiting for them to figure it out like i wonder if i wonder if he knew that the other guy got let out like i wonder if he followed it or not it's it's obviously i don't know know, like, oh, as soon as they find my DNA, like. There's no talking your way out of it, like your semen is there, you know, explain yourself, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. It is heartbreaking to think about how quickly it could have.

Been resolved. Different direction. Yeah. Yeah. on a different direction yeah yeah so chris has been fully exonerated thankfully and he filed a lawsuit against the city of idaho falls and seven former police officers uh detective firman who had meanwhile been elected mayor actually died in 2022 at the age of 60 uh mayor yeah following an early onset alzheimer's diagnosis so carol dodge is credited with solving her daughter's murder because she refused to give up and quite frankly if she had never gone and

gotten those tapes like he would just probably still be in prison and nobody would have even found the actual guy so carol said she couldn't back down because of this is oh you're crying okay i've got this carol said she couldn't back down because of that day she hugged angie after their argument she said if i hadn't had the opportunity to hold angie in my arms that night and to tell her how much i love her i don't know that i could have made it it's what kept me determined to find out why my daughter was killed jeez so that is is the story of Angie Dodge and the false confession. Well, there's no happy ending to that story, but at least, you know, the happiest version of it could happen that at least he got out.

At least there was some justice with him, you know, at the very least. Yeah. Wow. Well, it's a good story. Definitely had my twists and turns. I'll unbuckle now. Yeah, you can unbuckle. We're safely parked. So I it's a good one. I do like when there's twists and turns to the story. And I do like when there's whatever version of a happy ending. Some sort of possible. Yeah. Yeah. And shout out

to the Innocence Project because they really do they do great work yeah um how did you hear about this one was there any um it was just kind of a rant like i hadn't actually heard about it before um and uh the person who helps us do some of our research was like hey have you heard of this and i was like god no every time every time i see a topic where i'm like how do i not know that you know what I mean but it's just kind of terrible because there's just so many crime stories that it's like wow it's just endless stories to cover which is you know I'd give up my job if uh if it meant no more stories to cover yeah unfortunately I think you're gonna have a lifetime of stories yeah it's it's too bad it

really is tragic um so i actually had not heard of it before um they kind of sent it my way but yeah pretty pretty crazy well uh i'm glad we got to hang out a little bit i know it's when we're talking about dark stuff instead of just like friend hangouts but i'm glad we got to see each other i haven't seen you we kind of do that during friend hangouts too so i i haven't seen you in a while though last time i saw you i was covered in spots so i know are you feeling better uh i have like a little scarring but i think after of like a couple skin sheds will be good yeah okay good so i think it'll you know but it's like they're like they're tiny little dots it adds character they're like forehead freckles so like freckles yeah little freckles um but other than that i'm good allison i think maybe caught a minor case of it but it was nothing compared to what

my situation was um but yeah everything's my my hands are the only thing that are still healing a little bit but we're okay we're in the clear folks oh what a what a week hey now apparently since i've gotten it and i can never get it again you've at least helped me out next time i'm near a baby i don't have to wonder you're welcome. Thank you. Well, I guess I'm going to see you tomorrow or Wednesday because we're going to be in Florida this week. Yeah, I'm going to see you Wednesday in Florida. I'm so excited. And we're about to also record our after chat for Patreon. So if you guys want to hear more, you can go to patreon.com slash.

And that's why we drink, I think. And that's why we drink. Let and that's why we drink let me check if that's correct nope wow six years folks cool okay patreon.com slash atwwd podcast so check us out. We'll see you there. Otherwise, I guess we're good to go, huh? Yeah. And that's why we drink.