And That's Why We Drink - E334 Macarena of Veins and Casper's Foil

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

We're vibrant this week... is it sweat? First Em takes us to a place we don't go often for our stories: South Dakota, with the tale of the haunted Alex Johnson Hotel. Then Christine covers the tragic murder of Grace Millane. And lastly, we don't give you the license to fleb anything off of our bodies... and that's why we drink!Christine and Alexander still have a few shows left in their Beach Too Sandy, Water Too Wet tour this summer! Don't miss their one-star reviews coming to a city near you! beachtoosandy.com

that was the fastest ever that we started the fastest ever in history we went are you ready yes okay and then that's never happened nobody's usually we're not already usually zoom has truly been sometimes like a 90 minute affair um before we even begin the 90 minute affair the the four hour yeah exactly yeah yeah um hmm well i don't know what to do with all this productivity. You look good today. You look like you're glowing. Like you're just vibrant. Is it sweat? It could be. It's certainly not anything else. Usually with me, it's sweat.

So I'm just asking. I don't know. I think it might just be because I chose like a color behind me. But I feel like on my screen, I look really washed out. No? Well, the tone changes when the lights change, but your aura is glowing.

Oh. What if I told you that these lights aren't actually on? This is just my aura. I'm just glow. It's all over. It's just so visible. It's just a multicolored, technicolored dream coat aura. That's me.

I'm Jesus. Aw. Are you? Isn't that Joseph who has that? Hmm. Yep. I don't know. Listen, I don't know much about,

well, you're more in the theater space than I am, but I'm pretty. You're more the Christian, so. I wouldn't even go that far. I feel like you're the one who prays when a ghost shows up. I don't know. I left that behind a long time ago.

You know the Our Father probably better than I do. Maybe. I also, I i do i know way too much about the duggar so maybe i am a little more in the in the christian world than you are tater tot casserole so i think you automatically win thank you uh i got i'll take it as a compliment because if i take it as anything else i'll cry um how i gotta hear about your shows christine um they were really fun what uh it's been like small crowds but like people were just so much fun it was like comedy clubs and we went back to wise guys in salt lake city where we had shows um which was really fun and so yeah

i read some mormon reviews um yeah it was it was a good time um what was you for asking what was your the highlight of it all like what was well you just said the highlight and i have to tell you since you made that beautiful double entendre was it about a highlighter it's about how i'd said alexander i have a genius tiktok idea we should get high and then tell each other or write down children's book story ideas which was something our friend alexis made up a long time ago and so we did that in silence for like 10 minutes and then on video we read them aloud to each other but we weren't supposed to laugh um and our video has almost 400 000 views already oh look at that like what i don't know i just like put it up there they

are videos on bhg sandy's page usually get like i don't know 800 maybe views this one is fucking 360 000 or something uh that's weird it was only one out of six so i'm like really proud of my high genius you know um that's that was a highlight literally um uh-huh yeah yeah but so i just posted part two and then put my phone on do not disturb so we'll see after the episode what happens with part two but um my favorite book was called mac mac roll pi um so i'm hoping that that can be published um oh stat right right away yeah right away. Understood. How are you, Amethy? Nah, this and that. I know.

I sent you something, but it won't come till later on. But I gave them Allison's phone number because I know you have more of your procedure today and stuff. Yeah, today's the day I actually get them worked out, these veins. I know. I'm sorry, I hate veins. Oh, really? Me too. Oh, God. Yeah, I know. these veins uh i know i'm sorry i hate veins oh really me too oh god yeah i know but i've been trying to be so strong for you and i can't do it no i can't either i um i really honestly it makes me not want to be i can't breathe um i can't breathe and i'm not even going through it and i

um it's the it was one of those things where like it was, the second it was done, I couldn't remember the pain. And so now I can't remember how it's going to go, but I know it's going to go so bad my brain will dissociate the pain later. Hey, isn't that a plus? I guess. So if it's at two o'clock, by three o'clock, I won't know how bad it was. Yeah, you can practice astral projecting to my house i yeah i i feel so bad for um i feel so bad for the doctor because her and the two people that helped me last time they're the same people this time and they're like oh this one i

have a feeling they're gonna be like anyway i'm sure they're used to it yeah they're probably used to it they said that last time they were like oh well one person slept through it and i don't believe that apparently it's true i have heard it actually apparently and and um i've had to go in like feels like every day this week to get multiple ultrasounds to make sure that like everything's healing right right and every time they go i go in they're like how are you and i'm like not good it's like and it's not good um and and i they're like oh and you haven't even had the phlebectomy yet and i'm like oh why would you say it like that like you haven't even done this part that's why i've got a little toad with them because i'm like yes i haven't even gotten through the worst and the last time was pretty bad i would have a toad as well and i do also have a toad can you call them and have a

toad do you think i can call anyone and have a toad i can't even call like a person i'm actually having a battle with and say anything but you're right i'm sorry i regret everything oh it sounds like this where i'm glad we have like lisa lampanelli in the corner because i really just wish she could call them and yell at them because i'm in a lot of pain but then like eva's girlfriend rachel recently was like oh well since eva does all my um doc like my medical phone calls and i was like am i allowed to ask her to do that for me can i pay her extra on the side just to like make phone calls for me um i guess you can't tell that my counseling and therapy and hypnotherapy have not quite been working as well as i'd hoped as soon as you find someone who knows how to like

talk on a phone and like be strong wow it's you almost just want them you want to carry them around everywhere i like i didn't even marry one and i like that is my one regret about my relationship with blaze is we're both afraid of the phone. I'm like, one of us needed to be strong in this area. My mom used to be the strong one on the phone. And now I have to make all the phone calls myself. And I'm not going to give it to her because I think she'd actually say yes. But sometimes I'm like, man, I really wish my mom would just do this for me. All of a sudden, when it comes to medical stuff, I'll always be 10 and just not want to do any of this.

I revert to childhood for sure anyway i drink today because in a couple hours the veins in my legs will not be there anymore i'm going to jump out of the window i can't i can't handle it i honestly i i don't even it's usually even when i got like my like my my svt stuff that was less awful like I scary too like obviously because it was your heart yeah but that surgery I was okay with knowing what they were doing to me I don't even want to know about the vein thing and and I don't even want to know after it's happened I don't want to look it up I don't want to know I just so glad you didn't google it I mean I don't know either I would if I googled I if I goog, I would have the bravery to call and cancel.

I think literally that would push me over the edge. And I would be like, actually, my leg is fine. Thank you for trying, everybody. And every time I would go in for the ultrasounds, they have all these charts of like your veins and how important all of them are. And I'm like, get it out of my face. And four of them ultimately are being taken out. It's two on each leg.

And honestly, Christine, this is like where the shame comes in. And I haven't even shared this with anyone yet. It's just you and me. Right, obviously. I was supposed to. So I got the. There's ablation and phlebectomy. Ablation does something that involves carterizing.

I think it ablates, but I'm not sure. It could be. And the phlebectomy phlation does something something that involves cauterizing i think it ablates but i'm not sure it could be the in the phlebectomy phleb something definitely yeah i mean i definitely know that yeah i know the phlebectomy is when they take it out but the ablation is they did something else to like cauterize old bad veins right um because that's i only know that because the ablation that they did on my heart as they cauterize something. But my heart. Something mysterious. We'll never know. But I was supposed to do ablation on my left leg, then ablation on my right leg, then Fulbeck me on my left leg, Fulbeck me on my.

It's like a whole Macarena situation. So they call it. The Macarena veins veins if you will um and i have called them and told them face to face too i'm not i told them i was like can we just do the phlebectomy on my left leg get my left leg done and honestly not even touch my right leg and i'll come back to it in like a year to see if i'm ready like i like and it was supposed to happen like today my right leg was supposed but like it was so painful so you put the other one off oh i'm so glad are you because i'm freaking out that i did

the wrong thing like maybe i should just rip it off like a band-aid and just get it done with oh i thought you meant rip it off like a band-aid literally and i was like i'd rather i mean my veins are getting ripped out like i swear to God, Em, I was like, what? Like a DIY procedure? A DIY phlebectomy? I don't think so. I don't give you the license to phleb anything off your body by yourself. So I feel like I'm doing, maybe I'm doing myself a disservice.

Like I should just get it over with. But okay, here's the thing. I know we've already discussed this for like 10 million hours i'm so sorry everybody but you know if you're if your veins were getting ripped out today you'd want to talk about it too okay um so uh i thought and this is so stupid on my end and this is why i need someone if my if you're my mom you're not listening to this by the way way. Just go 30 seconds over. I was afraid. I was so afraid, I think, that I wasn't like totally listening to what the doctor said. Or honestly, I'm kind of convinced the doctor didn't fucking say anything.

That my insurance made it so. And I guess because my veins in particular are so fucking massive that the doctors agreed with the insurance. That the ablation and phlebectomy had to be done in two procedures. But I guess usually it's one procedure. So like by now my leg should have been handled. But I guess because my veins, by the way, are double the size of most people's veins. Did you know that? I just found out.

What? Why? Apparently veins are a five. I don't know what unit that is, but they said veins are fives and you have a you have 10. I don't know what that means. 10 out of 10. Congratulations. And so they said because mine are so wide and big that the procedure was going to require

two procedures anyway. So anyway, I swear to God, I feel like no one ever said that to me. And so i thought after my ablation after i talked to you i thought my left leg was done and then i went in for an ultrasound and they were like okay so we should schedule you for the second part and i was like tell you that and i was like what second part i was like do you mean my second leg and they went no we have to do that again and so then in my brain i got it in my head that instead of having to deal with that pain one more time i had to deal with it three more times forget it and so then i just like canceled my right leg

i don't blame you i would have done the same thing i mean i'm not saying it's the right thing but i would have absolutely done the same fucking thing so i feel like it was the wrong thing because now i'll have a year to think about it and like maybe maybe I should just do it. But in like also like we're not touring right now. Okay. But what if you do. And I can't fly. I can't fly while I'm doing this. So like I can't do this while we're on tour.

On our private jet. Well I'm not allowed to fly for like two or three weeks. Oh shit. So like I would really have to wait until we're off tour again. Well okay. What about you do today's. And then maybe this one will be less bad. Maybe this one will feel like little butterfly kisses from the doctor. Yeah.

It could be. Oh, by the way, I, I, so at the ultrasound, I asked the doctor again, I was like, how is it that people sleep through this? And she's like, well, those people have gone through multiple births and i went oh okay well are you serious i was like i'm glad this is a walk in the park for parents but um not me that listen i wish i could trade you then because i did do that one time and it wasn't fun at all um so i do wish i could do that so they don't give you pain medication they give you anesthetic but the anesthetic is the thing that hurts somehow i don't want to know i know blaze probably already explained this to me when we were in a car and he listened to this and went christine

figure it out but i don't get it as of right now we're recording i don't get it they even told me they're like it's not painful which like i i guess the surgery is not painful but like they said that 80 of the whole procedure is just getting you numb but the numbing is what sucks is it just they're giving you so many different shots of like i mean on top of on top of the pain of the anesthetic like numbing you um they're also jabbing you a bunch of times with needles to get to right that part can't be enjoyable i'm because i mean even when you get numbing like in your mouth whatever like that fucking hurts at first like when they put the needle in like that hurts yeah maybe it's like that and each leg is like at least so far it was at least like 10 mouth sizes yeah it was like 10 needles at least and then they had to do it halfway through because

i started feeling stuff which like it doesn't make sense i don't know oh it's just it's very are we done with the show yeah i like need to lay down like i'm not even participating in this but i need you to understand that i'm like unwell about this anyway my main my main concern is like and maybe it's because like at a hospital maybe they would put you to sleep but here they don't but it sounds like across the board they don't put you to sleep for vain stuff i would put myself i would be like i'll just um like hit me with a hammer like literally anything or i'll do it myself if you don't want to be liable you know but just put me out of my misery well oh my god m i am like beside myself i'm i'm not handling your medical shit well right now and i'm sorry about that thank you i would like to be

pitied because this is a bad one um well if this is helping i sure hope so because um yikes okay please talk about um before we get into this, please talk about something that's like going on in your life, because every time we, I feel like every episode is just me bitching about health stuff, so please do something. I mean, my stuff's never very exciting, but I do have an update that you'll probably be excited about, which is that in Vegas, you kind of had to leave a little bit early because you were going to the Philippines, no big deal. So I stayed an extra day with zandy and

then eva and rachel were there for an extra day and um we stayed at uh the mirage because that's where we're performing and i found my and i'd never like done a slot machine before so i was like i don't know what i'm doing so my brother like taught me how to do the slots i got so into it like not too into it to a dangerous degree but like definitely lost some money but had a lot of fun okay okay that's all that matters that's all that matters right uh but i found my favorite game and i became obsessed with it and then i got home and for my birthday eva and rachel had sent me a little package okay Okay. So the, the, the, the game,

the, the slot that I like is called hot stuff and he's a cute little devil and he like flies around and I love him and I saw him and I was talking to my brother and I think Lisa and I said, he looks so familiar. Like I feel like he would be in like a Casper cartoon or something. And so then I Googled it and he literally was in the Casper, like old timey Casper cartoons.

And I'm like, no wonder I love this evil little man so much. And so then Eva found like a comic, a hot stuff comic. And he's my little devil friend. That's precious. Isn't he cute? And the song goes, hot, hot, hot stuff. Does it go that way or did you? i won like 190 bucks on it one time wow but like he's so cute and i just love him and so was he like casper's like evil

best friend i think he would describe it as like the foil to casper you know but like he also so we read i read the wikipedia page to everyone i read it at them more like um and apparently he is disliked by his other demon like little compatriots because he likes to do good things to make them mad and i was like this is my favorite character and before i even knew he was in a comic i was like i kind of want to get that little guy as a tattoo because he's just so cute and fun and i just love him and my brother was like okay but then I found out all this backstory anyway so I've had this on the my couch here for a while but I wanted to show it to you because it's just oh and then on the back it has like an ET advertisement for perfect ET movie because this is from the 90s

I guess so I just was like so taken aback when this arrived at my doorstep but I'm in love with this little guy he's the little hot stuff devil that would be a cool little uh I'm not saying it now but one day that would be a cool yes yeah you get it come on if we got tattoos together as the ghost person i could get casper literally exactly i knew what you were gonna say knew it yeah if i'm not saying now but maybe one day that one that one i just texted i'm dead that's so cute do it do it do it make us an appointment write that down somewhere please well we'll shop it we'll discuss i'm not i love him that one i'm one percent closer at the

idea of getting one percent we're doing it folks it's gonna take a while but you know eventually uh man that was that actually distract you from everything it worked that was a really good one that was you want to facetime me during your procedure i can just read this to you aloud you know oh you wouldn't be able to hear yourself because i'll be screaming unfortunately i'll mute you and i'll just talk okay i'll just try to shout over the screaming um as loudly as possible at the last one the doctor kept trying to ask me like questions and i was like i know you're not you don't even give a shit about the answer you're just trying to make me talk and so i try i was like i'm no fool i mean i did walk in here so maybe i yeah i don't

know about that uh anyway uh no that's a that's a great way to end the intro. And I hope people who like our banter got a kick out of the last 20 minutes. Me too. And for the people who follow the person on YouTube that tells you the mark on where we start our stories, it's right around here. And action. Today we are talking about the Alex Johnson Hotel. What is that? It is in an area we hardly ever find our way in, which is South Dakota. Hardly ever.

Okay. Hardly ever. Have you been there? No. I mean, even in our own stories, we're hardly ever in South Dakota. I thought you meant in real life. I was like, I've certainly never been there. Do you go every now and then?

But I see what you're saying. I just pop over. Well, I hope the South Dakotans are happy because this is very exciting for them. I hope so. And hopefully I do it justice. Because the last, I feel like we haven't talked about South Dakota in quite a while. I don't know if I have ever, really. Which is a good thing, right?

The crime, hopefully, is just a good thing, right? Like the crime hopefully is just, you know, a less populated state. You hope. One would hope that there's going to be a state somewhere that just has no crime. And maybe South Dakota is that place. Maybe that's the dream, the dream town. We're all going to move there. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. And commit crimes. No, wait, that's not part of this. Hang on. Yeah, yeah. Backtrack. It's not it. It's not it.

Well, so this is in Rapid City, South Dakota, and this is apparently near the Black Hills, and I guess the Black Hills have their own ghost stories. I feel like all hills have something spooky going on. There's got to be a ghost in those hills. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. And I guess since it's next to

the black hills maybe it's got some sort of extra maybe it's related but i do know that in the black hills some of the mountains are made of limestone and limestone is said to cause more activity or to encourage paranormal activity so that might be it that the whole town's got some limestone mountains going on um and then at the very bottom of those hills is a hotel the alex johnson hotel which some of their own stones that the hotel is made of are limestone. So the hotel is 143 rooms. It was created by, can you guess, Alex Johnson. You don't say. He was the vice president of Chicago and Northwestern Railroad. Yeah, cool. Me too. I feel like every hotelier was also a railroad tycoon. Like a baron. Yeah. Or whatever the word is a magnate um oh stop it okay

so today the hotel fun fact is on the national register of historic places it's also part of the national tour association it's part of the association of historic hotels of the rockies and it has received the first governor's great service award and the governor's service star oh my what a special place i don't know what any of those things mean i like to think it's it makes it a it's a sterling review i'm happy for them though so yeah if that counts for anything speaking of small government um uh we're not but i it's i saw the word governor a few times and it's a small populated state speaking of that uh i just found out that allison and i are only an hour away from a town who i've mentioned a town like this before but

i just found another town where it is a small town and the townspeople have voted a dog to be their mayor. And I'm very excited. And that is Burbank, California. I wish. It's only, I guess, an hour from us or two hours from us and the mayor, the dog, has an Instagram. They posted that in September

they're throwing a party that is all about dogs and it's going to be all the mayor's friends are going to be there stop i have to go and they sell t-shirts that look very like serious and it's just like with the a mayor a mayoral dog on the shirt so i have to get a shirt called you know it's called idle wild but it's not spelled like idle wild so i don't know mysterious did the dog try to write it down and they were like oh i guess we have to go with that spelling it's just a big scratch christine i am going to tell you the shirt that i'm getting so i'm going to be at that by the way if anyone wants to meet me i'm going to be at the mayor's party i don't doubt it the shirt says it's a picture of his name is

uh max mayor max the third oh my mistake mayor max's second was my father the shirt has him on it i think there's like a bald eagle and an american flag behind of course there must be. And it says, the paw is the law. What the fuck? I'm so happy. I'm so happy. So anyway, you can catch me and my paw is the law. I don't know. That might be from Paw Patrol.

They might have stolen that. But anyway, you can catch me. Leona's not old enough yet for that. So I'll let you know in a couple years when i find out if you uh want a chance to run into me it'll be at the the mayor's party and this is excellent news this is excellent news i'm so thrilled right now anyway back to this uh so it's a very you know well esteemed hotel um and alex john himself, he wanted to make this hotel as a showplace of the West. Oh. And allegedly he wanted the hotel

to also be a tribute to the indigenous tribes in the area. I gotta be honest, I don't know what his true intentions were. Also the word tribute is very vague. Uh-huh, uh-huh uh-huh apparently he decorated the hotel himself and it still looks like that today so there's a lot of indigenous art everywhere i know and i very much hope that they very consensually made this and then he bought it.

Yeah, I hope he commissioned it from them. Or maybe they gifted it to him and they said, please God, decorate a whole hotel with our stuff. We're begging. We need it. Unfortunately, I don't think that's what happened in the 1920s. So from a white man named Alex Johnson. That would be shocking though.

What a fun plot twist. But I will warn you, apparently the whole place is just riddled with indigenous art. And I'm sure it's beautiful, but I also don't know how it was created. And that makes me nervous. Yeah. Or if there's any sort of like, what do you call it? Like, God, Christine. What's like a word for like payment like um

christine uh commission extortion commission extortion i'm giving you a range here i don't know i just i hope there was some sort of like at least quid pro quo an exchange you know yeah i hope i i hope he just happened to like truly understand the culture of all local indigenous tribes and they welcomed him with open arms and i hope that's the story i don't think it is though okay i get i get nervous when a white person's like i'm going to make a tribute to all the tribes nearby and i'm going to use all of their stuff and then we don't get any more details it's like okay yep um so hopefully it was done with good intentions and it was it was well handled but um uh anyway on top of that not only is the decor something to look out for but apparently the basement of the hotel is designed very wildly. Not interior design wise,

but architecturally, I guess when new management has come through and looked at the basement of the hotel, they're like, what the fuck is the shape of this place? Oh, I don't like that. In a basement? Yeah, so I guess old school downtown Rapid City, South Dakota had underground tunnels.

And to my knowledge, the purpose is unknown for had underground tunnels and to my knowledge there was the purpose is unknown for these underground tunnels spooky uh which there have been a lot of places with underground tunnels and they have really like learned like learned a lot about the history they do tours about it but a source that i saw said we have underground tunnels and don't know why they're here so that's interesting today in the hotel basement you can find quote eerily narrow hallways and oddly shaped rooms there's rooms that have drains in the floor for no reason and quote stairs with no apparent destination what this is like some winchester shit yeah so it sounds like maybe there was a whole other layout i like to think that was why it looks so odd today because it was just a

different blueprint but i hope so because that is like mysterious drains for no reason is not something i'd like to experience i like to think that maybe it was like maybe down there there was like a butcher shop and that's where they just like like they needed the drains in the floor for all the blood there's also a rumor that that was an underground barber shop where like they sweeney todded people and that's why there's drains in the floor so they're on top of it on the spooky stuff because that rumor was before i got here so um you didn't just start that just now no uh the general manager his name was don rodriguez and he says we opened up a lot of

different spaces that weren't available before and no one can really figure out what they are blueprints exist only for the upstairs portion of the hotel with no mention of the underground okay i mean that's weird right that you wouldn't mention it yeah i would forget to mention it or also like the hotel like just turned 100 i'm sure there's not that yeah many owners like you could probably look through archives your way back yeah anyway so alex johnson his main goal of the hotel was to be a rest stop for tourists coming through because they would be it was nearby Mount Rushmore. OK, I see. And I guess he you know, the railroad tycoons, the magnates, as you call them, they really do seem to always try to find a tourist trap and then just build a hotel next to it.

That's really their only skill. Why they're a're a magnate well they also know about trains oh that is the truth they have multiple skills give them a fucking credit where credit's due i will say he i don't know what life was like around this time i don't know if this was like the big thing in the newspapers um but mount rushmore hadn't even been created yet. I think so. There were whispers of it. Maybe. Oh, so he was just like hoping banking on this new tourist destination that didn't even exist yet. He was he's a bit of a gambler like you with your hot stuff. I know all about that. I'm a magnate in my own way. I'm a hot stuff magnate, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about it. As you get Casper's little red friend tattooed to you. Like, I'm a magnate.

As I lose $400 on the slots. That's a slight exaggeration. I was going to say, the number keeps climbing. Yeah, well, just do a little range. You know, we can keep the people guessing. From here to there. That's how much I lost. So his goal was to be a rest stop for ultimately when Mount Rushmore was created. So I guess he knew it was coming soon. And Alex started construction on his hotel October 3rd, 1927, which, by the way, fun fun fact was one day before mount rushmore began its

construction he just wanted to beat him by a day got it by a day he was like how about i i do my hotel and you carve into a mountain four different famous faces and we'll see who does it faster yeah yeah and i'll put a creepy labyrinth in the basement. But don't worry about that. I won't write it down. Toss the blueprints. So this hotel, it then opened less than a year later, which I don't know how in 2023 a hotel could go from nothing to a full fucking hotel in less than a year. In 1927, what skills were you, how were you moving that fast? Listen, you already dissed him and his abilities

so i don't think he's gonna let you know apparently his other skill is that he can move at the speed of light so his house not his house his hotel um it was a very swanky hotel 11 stories and it opened in 1928 another fun fact the first guest was patty o'neill and the bar ended up being named after him because he was the first guest i thought it was a lady i got excited i think it's patty patrick got it i liked it better as a lady's name for the bar but it's okay patricia it could be we don't know we don't know and by the way though can you imagine just being the first person to walk into a building after it's completed? And they're like, oh, we were trying to figure out how to name the bar. I'm always walking into buildings and hoping that happens.

And it never does. If someone wanted to name a bar after us, that would be delightful. Yeah, but also. No. Well, I don't know if you can just call it M and Christine the bar, because I feel like we would want to make sure that it's not covered in like indigenous art or something. You know what I mean? Like, I don't want my name on it just like any place.

You know what I mean? I see. I see. I see. How about like hit us up if you want to name your company after us and we'll be thrilled and delighted. Here's the situation, though. We're called and that's why we drink.

Why on earth do we have our own pop up bar. Here's the situation though. We're called and that's why we drink. Why on earth do we have our own pop-up bar? That's a great question. And I'm asking you publicly because I've asked privately for years. Em was not satisfied with my answer, I guess. I don't know. Let's do it. That's my answer.

I don't know. For Halloween, a pop-up spooky and that's why we drink themed bar. Come on. No, I'm in. I'm 100. I've always been in. You know that.

I just don't know what I need to do to make this work. What do you want me to do? Maybe it's what others can do. Maybe you reach out and show interest so then we can tell our manager that this could work. It's so weird. Out of nowhere, people just want this bar. They're just rallying together. It's a very organic thought of theirs. We did not shove it down their throats it's like the weirdest thing i don't know

how anybody came up with it anyway maybe october 2024 depending on people yeah hit us up folks so uh this became a very swanky hotel and dignitaries would stay there you know i love a dignitary including six presidents would you like to guess guess the six i'll tell you if you get even one right i'm gonna say like obama and you're gonna be like he was not alive yet dummy um let me think he was alive while the hotel existed but he is not one of the try older try further back lyndon b johnson no garfield no who are some famous older presidents no i'm sorry i don't know girl i said more famous ones and you went no more famous ones george washington okay that's a good that one's a good guess, but no.

Especially because he was around 200 years before. Wait, wait. Harrison Ford. No, that's the doctor. Sorry. I meant... Gerald Ford? Gerald. I almost called him Harold, but it's fine.

That one's right. Gerald Harrison Ford. I told you I knew it. Harrison Ford. What's wrong with me? So Han Solo came here. I mean, maybe. what's wrong with me so han solo came here i mean maybe uh also coolidge fdr eisenhower nixon and reagan fdr eisenhower i'm just double checking to make sure you didn't miss one that i said but

you didn't so don't worry uh obama doesn't seem to be on my list and neither does harrison ford uh but maybe i don't know honestly maybe they could have been there and no just no one wrote it down i mean they just forgot it's with the like the basement somewhere maybe that's where he stayed i don't know just a thought so during this time the hotel was also home to alfred hitchcock and Cary Grant because they were filming part of the movie North by Northwest. You mean Hugh Grant? Yes. I'm so sorry. Wow. Those are like the only two actors I know, Harrison Ford and Hugh Grant. And I used to get them mixed up. That's so. You also get Jude Law mixed up with everybody. Well, he I'm sure has stayed there before because I think I've seen it.

I feel like if you saw a little girl walking around the lobby, you'd go, oh, my God, is that Jude Law? Like, cover me. I'm so nervous. What will they think of you? I might get asked for an autograph. You could go up to Harrison Ford and be like, are you Jude Law? And he'd go, no, I'm Gerald Ford. I'm so confused so uh yeah

alfred hitchcock and carrie grant uh stayed in this hotel while they were filming north by northwest which again weird full circle well i guess not really weird they fully intentionally stayed here because they were filming at mount rushmore um but so in the movie apparently there's this famous scene which i'm not a movie buff i don't know how popular north by northwest is maybe it's significantly popular and i just it sounds like something like uh film students would know and we as lowly tv students would never know exactly and um apparently there's this infamous scene where I watched on YouTube and I was not moved, unfortunately. Oh, no. But it's I assume Cary Grant and another woman, they're climbing down Mount literally on their fucking faces, climbing down Mount Rushmore.

And I could see that being a big deal if they actually climbed down Mount Rushmore's face. But that was movie magic. They didn't actually climb. Can you imagine just free falling off of Mount Rushmore in the 20s or whatever that movie came? I'm not going to guess which presidents are on Mount Rushmore. I know I should know that. But like falling off one of their noses, probably Harold Ford or one of the others. They're like hanging on the the eyelids of somebody and like

but so i guess maybe it was like this huge scene because maybe back then they'd never seen anything like it on tv movie magic was probably a lot more jarring and impressive well so get this i think alfred hitchcock actually planned on filming that at mount rushmore like i think he really was gonna tell an actor hey we have like no like checks and balances on this like right no one's gonna know just go hang off of mount rushmore while i film you nobody's looking at home go climb on his nostril real quick it seems like only they were at this hotel and not like any crew that would be there to catch them not a rope no net nothing it just seems like he was they took a road trip and they'd be like you know it'd be crazy for the movie go jump off of mount rushmore and i'll film it just kidding

unless but then the u.s national parks heard about that and they were like you can't film here we don't trust you i like that even back then the parks were like people are so dumb trying to climb on everything yeah they were like no you can head right back home so they ended up basically having like a hangout at this hotel and then went back to los angeles to do the movie magic version anyway that's the fun fact for alfred hitchcock stayed there and like also and didn't film what he planned on filming. Also, someone who's a movie buff is probably ripping their hair out that I said it all wrong, but whatever. And that's okay. Fun fact, this hotel is now one of the oldest buildings in Rapid City, and it's also one of the most haunted.

So I already mentioned him before, but general manager rodriguez he believes in the ghosts because so many people have come up to him but he has not seen anything a likely story and he says that guests and staff had all had experiences he often hears guests reporting on something without even knowing the hotel's haunted and i think that's what really wooed him with all this there are allegedly four main spirits um the main one say it with me christine a lady in white or red or black but she in this time it is white yeah man i should have just fucking had the strength of my convictions but i didn't she is the best known ghost there if they always are and i swear to god it's the same lady in white just hopping from hotel to hotel for eternity. She's a jet setter.

She is the best known ghost in this hotel. You can find her in room 812. And the story goes, do you need me to tell you folks, that she was jilted on her wedding night and thus somehow died by suicide. This time, I guess it's jumping out of the window. It seems to be jumping out of the window a lot with these lady in white stories that are never fully confirmed by anybody. I feel like every hotel is like, that's a good one. We also have one of those now. Like, just kind of just keeps going.

We can't get ourselves a lady in white. All the big magnates are doing it. So they say that she, the story gets, you know, over time a little muddled where they don't know if she jumped out of the window or what have you. Another version is that she was actually murdered there because she was about to inherit a large amount of money. Oh, geez. Okay. Either way, she died and we don't actually have any concrete proof of that happening right there is a now people see a woman on the eighth

floor in the hallway allegedly in a wedding dress and people also hear a woman crying in her room so if it's true it's very sad i know i was gonna say so like obviously we're a little skeptical just because this is such a widespread like urban legend in so many places but like if you did see a lady in white like would you be like i mean i guess you probably would but would you be like oh shit so it's real like me personally yeah i don't know what kind of question i think if i i think at this point if i saw a lady in white i'd be be like, finally, I at least saw one. Yeah, okay, that's fair. Like, okay, so one of these out of the 100,000 we've covered is legit. Okay.

I don't know. I do think I'm jaded on this because every hotel. Yeah, that's the word, jaded. Yeah. I'm just guessing now, the next time I cover a hotel, there will be a lady in white. I don't even know. But I would bet money. Like, that's a good good gamble let's look at us gambling away our life savings i know and uh but so i i think if i saw one i would just be excited to tell you i finally saw one of the

ones we're always talking about i'd be thrilled um it's also weird how many places have a jilted bride who was so overwhelmed with losing her husband that she died that night. It makes me wonder if it all stemmed from one or a couple that were actually true and then people just kind of spread the story. I don't know. I feel like at least half of them have to not be real. I feel like if you keep it vague enough of like, oh, there's a hotel where a bride died and now people see a lady in white, you can now just, through the game of telephone, I feel like 10 hotels will catch on to that.

I don't know. I'm with you. And I wonder which one was the one that was like, no, but ours really happened. Or maybe, yeah. Or maybe I'm wildly ignorant to all the bride depressed brides yeah you asshole i don't know i i hope they're not all true i would hate first of all i feel like an asshole but also i hope it's not true that many brides are

right jumping to their death but it is weird how we don't even have to i might not even bring it up next time because i'm so no you should just so we can keep like a running count but yeah i get what you're saying it is kind of like someone someone made like this very incredible map of all the stories we've ever covered that i know you saw i'm making a face you're like you saw it no no like remember it was like some sort of like picked an infograph where it was like i never opened it i think it got set on slack and i forgot to check it oh interesting i think it's on instagram but if um i know megan would know what i'm talking about it's like someone listened to every episode and actually mapped out where all of our stories are from and they're finally like in south dakota yeah you can finally write that one down on your list but i wonder if they've

also and if they haven't don't worry about going back and listening all over again but it would be interesting to know how many ladies in white ladies in red ladies and whatever have we've mentioned because i feel like it's 300 out of 300 episodes. I am curious, yes. So Lady in White, you see her in room 812. Other people think she's, either it was a suicide or a murder. And now people see a woman roaming the halls

on the eighth floor. People say they hear her crying they also say that 812's windows will open and shut by themselves uh this part is real fucking creepy that in 812 apparently the dresser will open by itself and not always do the usual just like throwing your stuff out of the dresser it will pull the whole drawer out dump your clothes out of it and then put the drawers back in upside down what upside down yeah as somebody who always has to pull plastic bags out from behind one of those drawers because they get stuck behind the drawer like i know how hard it is to pull those fucking drawers out.

You know what would be so judgmental if only certain clothing of yours got pulled out? It was like, I don't like this one. It was like, you really, really paid money for this. Gotta go. I also love the- White is my color as a lady in white. So please put that away. I love the symbolism of the dresser being pulled out

and the clothes being dumped as a way of being like get the fuck out of here you're not welcome like literally i don't even want to touch the clothes like i'm just gonna dump them without even touching them like that like most people don't have the cosmic strength i do to lift a whole ass full drawer out of a dresser but i'm gonna do it yeah that's so shocking like maybe this is the real lady in white she's like yeah i'm trying to make myself known here and what else is stealing my fucking story it's another one of those conversation pieces that we've had a million times but do you think if you had a camera rolling in that room the dresser drawer would be out and

then in or do you think you could watch the ghost struggle to pull the drawer out like we've all done and then put it put it in but the wrong way and they did it by accident they didn't even realize it was on the wrong track um i think our camera would do that thing where it just skips yeah it misses time and you're like well shit what a shame because i would love to see the ghost getting fed up and just like shove it in upside down because it's the only way it'll get in that would make like i i just if maybe if we promise we won't show it to anybody and get it on camera because i would love to see that anyway i like what a statement of like just get out of here yeah it's rude also uh there's a quote

about 812 from one of the people who stayed there i've never in my whole life walked into a room and been as instantaneously and intensely creeped out as when i walked into room 8 12 for the first time my skin immediately started to crawl and did so for the entire evening then one of the hotel lobby clerks, his name's Raz Goldman, he said, there's something I always feel a little creeped out on the eighth floor for. For me in room 812, the safe would not open and we did everything we could and it wouldn't open. Finally, I called maintenance and the safe just flung open. I don't know why or how that happened, but it did. And then it put itself back upside down.

This is like poltergeisty though like that's creepy yeah the general manager put out a statement saying that the spirit is peaceful but okay i don't really want to be near passive aggressive as fuck yeah peaceful but like your clothes aren't safe at the very least an asshole yeah and maybe your personal belongings if you're gonna put it in the safe she might keep it i would be careful what you say there's also apparently a second jilted bride here what um not a lady in red just like a random secondary character uh she's also on the eighth floor in room 802 and she's said to have hanged herself with the phone cord. Oh, fuck. What's morbidly interesting about this is that this is the story that unfortunately we have some sort of confirmation for because the Rapid City Police Department showed the general manager crime scene photos.

No. See, this is what's happening. I'm like, what would what do you think? And then it's like, well, then it it is real and i wish it wasn't real so i don't know uh if like the details of like a phone cord are specific but there were crime scene photos of somebody who died by suicide and then also recently a guest brought in a newspaper article that they found that said quote a young woman died on august 18th as a result of a fall from the eighth floor of the alex johnson hotel oh shit so now we don't know if that's an additional death or if that confirms maybe the lady in white being pushed or we don't really know it's just like a vague additional death wow well i mean didn't

you say the lady in white allegedly jumped out the window allegedly jumped so this is the closest we have to any evidence that the lady in white as a ghost is real i see but we we don't know it could just be that someone fell and right it has no connection to her being a bride or if she was, you know, rejected on her wedding day. Right. That might have been just like adding to the story. It could. Yeah, this could be. I mean, this is a very real death. And then the lady in white storyline could just like be the same one that we hear at every hotel on top of that. be the same one that we hear at every hotel right on top of that um the third ghost is alex johnson himself who died in the hotel in 1938 because he lived on the third floor so this is what i think is weird is that the rooms on the third floor there's only two rooms and the rooms are 304 and 305 why wouldn't you start at 301 hmm not my business i guess so uh very odd

i know so he lived on the third floor aka both of those rooms and now the third floor itself is also incredibly haunted and people see him walking around i guess keeping an eye on things and the fourth and final main ghost is... Sorry to interrupt. Do people stay on the third floor? Is it still just... Now it's 304 and 305, yeah. Oh, okay, but they're just really big? I guess so.

Maybe they're like suites. They have like drains in all the floors just in case. Yeah. And, oh, the fourth ghost is of a little girl who's allegedly Alexson's niece or daughter um who i guess she died early of maybe polio a disease you know one of those well in general they've said a disease but a couple sources said polio but i'm not sure um but she is also seen on the eighth floor and she's heard running down the halls she's heard

giggling at night i hate that and i don't care how much fun she's having for eternity i don't want to hear you don't bring me into it you know also she's known to knock on guests doors and then when they open the door nobody's there sound familiar christine yeah yeah yeah it seems like when you put little kid ghosts in hotels they don't know anything more fun than knocking on doors and like door and like not ding dong ditch ding dong i mean i get it like that, it's like an age old activity, you know, like everyone can appreciate a good ding dong ditch moment. Yeah. Or a door dash.

I appreciate that. I also appreciate that. Yes. Agreed. So she is a parent. That's like her favorite game. Couldn't get enough of it. She will knock on doors truly forever and just giggle and giggle and giggle and then

run down the hall so a lot of guests have actually complained of children being too loud in the hall when no kids are actually staying there and those are the main four the other stories are people saying apparitions in their room or down the hall hearing knocking hearing growling apparently pianos will play by themselves in empty rooms the The elevator will stop working randomly. I could chalk that one up to it's a hundred year old elevator, but okay. And people also get footage. There's photos of the lady in white that people have gotten and people have sent in videos of things they've seen too.

So one of the main ones is that the key rack behind the front desk was just shaking by itself for no reason. Oh, no. So the two rooms on the third floor plus 812 and 802. Those are the most haunted rooms in case you're trying to creep yourself out. This is a quote from somebody who stayed in one of the rooms that said, I woke up around 3 a.m. because I could feel the sheets moving. I waited for a moment and i could feel someone slowly slide into the bed next to me oh my god the fact that it's slowly means like they're trying not to wake you which is just like and you're awake oh it's horrific oh the way you

said that i hated it gives me the shivers yeah and it's like were you trying to be polite like just gonna squeeze right yeah right right yeah or is like, you don't know I'm here. Exactly. Like, oh, good. They're not awake yet. Like, what's the fucking vibe? I don't know if you can see that, but they are. I do too, man.

I'm like. My goose cam, my little hairs on my arm are sky high. Oh, we got to get some 4K video footage in here to really capture her skin bumps. There really is nothing creepier than feeling something sit on a bed or, I mean, nevermind, climbing under your sheets up to you in the bed is pretty bad. Wow.

And apparently, that's just, that's just usual there. That's just life, you know? That's just life as you roll with the punches. At the Alex Johnson Hotel. Rodriguez says that uh guests often report things he said the average is at least once a month someone gets something he also said that men are more likely to experience something unusual and that more

hauntings happen in the winter time really i don't know why every month winter time except like july in south dakota sorry oh my god i was like is that you were like are you well i was like could you talk to a weatherman about that like isn't every month you were like the winter i know we know you don't know how to say september properly but like you gotta cool it with this like nonsense. Oh, it's embarrassing. You said it so confidently. I know. Am I missing something?

We're all being lied to by somebody. Probably a meteorologist, if I were to guess. Probably you. Yeah. Oh, right. It's me. uh there's one guy uh that's a valet manager at the hotel who he's so used to people being woken up at three in the morning and like feeling something in bed with them this is a quote from him i would say almost half my job he's a valet manager by the way oh no i would say almost half

my job is guest consolation in the morning when someone has felt like they were visited by a ghost in the middle of the night. Imagine him writing his resume and like the bullet points are like, manage this many employees. Like, you like go on Thesaurus to find like the right word for manage, you know, or like I know how to execute things properly. But then he's like, how do I like really flesh out the- Consoled guests post midnight terror. Yeah, like therapy sessions with clients. Like, I don't know how you would even phrase that. That's something.

He's also said, so many trustworthy people from all kinds of different professions from all over the world end up sharing those stories here. And to me, there's only a limited number of times that you can hear those stories and still assume it's random chance that they keep happening in three specific rooms on one specific floor. Great fucking point. I got to hand it to him. Since the hotel opened in 1928, there are officially eight total deaths, but some of them are still unsolved and a lot of them just

never even got mentioned um it was pretty much just like the lady in white story and that's it um but we do know that there were eight deaths so i guess technically there are other hotel rooms that could be incredibly haunted yeah i was gonna say what about the other ones i guess they just pale in comparison to the drama if the hotel staff are openly like if the general manager is like owning that this place is haunted wouldn't you wouldn't you want to mention the other haunted rooms i would think so especially because these ones so far have already been kind of brutal and horrible so yeah also like can you imagine um if all eight of these deaths are happening in the same room because that's a

fucking coinkydink that's also its own fucking story then yeah i would not stay there i would stay there if there was a ghost but not if like multiple people were literally dying for no reason in that room one thing that i will say is that on top of everything there are poltergeist experiences like i mentioned earlier like the um the drawer being opened but people like i said they hear growling people have also said that they have seen things flying across the room they have seen figures in the mirrors um people have been shoved and bitten oh oh bitten is so crazy and like horrifying also like intimate like a wild that's like that's wild that's a mouth on your skin oh my god and also like who are you that you're biting people

in the afterlife you know like are you like shoving somebody you know we've all been like in that like i get it if you're confused as a ghost or you're there in your space but like biting like why are you doing that? I've never hated somebody so much where I was like, I can't wait to fucking bite them. Right? Like, I don't want to put my mouth on someone I don't like. So why? Why biting?

That makes me think that it's, like, not human. Like, it's an animal. Oh. Oh. I thought you meant just, like, a demon. But, yeah. Oh. Well, yes.

It could be also a demon for sure. Could be that one. I don't know. Nothing in know no we'll have to trace the teeth marks uh i and then of course who could forget that apparently there are you know the chairs in the hotel room people have said that they get randomly thrown at the staff by nothing they just fly across the room at people oh no so no thanks at all on that um taps the not ghost adventures ghost hunters right uh they came to the alex johnson hotel and they said that they got their hair pulled they could feel breath on them um they heard differentPs. They got a deep voice and a female voice. They heard squeaking.

Um, and on top of that, I mean, I, they also heard intelligent knocking when asked multiple times, they said, can you do this? And then they would get knocks. Um, oh, and as for more poltergeist activity, dogs refuse to go into certain rooms. See, I'm, I don't like that. Yeah. I don't like any of that um but if you're someone who does like that and you want to stay at this hotel you can get the ghost adventure package where you stay

in one of the haunted rooms they give you an emf detector and they give you a 25 dining credit and you get access to their very classy members onlyonly rooftop bar, the Vertex Sky Bar. And free valet for the night. Free valet for the night probably means free consolation from this poor valet manager later. And a free therapy session in the morning. No, you probably have to pay for that. Yeah. Other than that, staff have admitted to seeing, quote, figures in the mirrors, things flying off the shelves, cups sliding across the desk like someone or something is moving them um they've also gone into rooms you know thinking that they

like had to do a work order and when they knocked on the door they heard someone say hello or come on in and then when they got in no one was there weirdly this is just like an extra bonus i guess but some people have seen the spirit of a football player i thought you're gonna say football and i was like now i'm listening that's crazy that's yeah it's one with teeth and it bites people oh wait that was a weird dream i had uh so if you see a football player you're getting like the limited edition bonus ghost congrats and that's that's about it i guess i'm i got nothing else we don't know who the football players you just dressed as a football player is that how we know it's actually uh harrison ford

okay all right um but yeah there's uh there's the main thing is the lady in white uh and then when taps was there they were able to confirm that it was super haunted and if you want that for yourself you can get the ghost adventure package why do they call it the ghost adventure package i wonder if they want you to feel like zach bagans was there which as to people who have been in a hotel after zach bagans was there that's right it's not worth your time no i would be careful what you wish for you know yeah we will we can tell you therapy package the next day on full authority we can tell you it is not as fun as it seems no in fact it's much less anyway that's the alex johnson hotel good job thank you i enjoyed that good

okay um i have a moira story for you a moira a moida not another moida this is the story of grace malane of course it's sad i don't know why i almost said it's sad they were all fucking sad uh yeah so i don't even know why i give you that little tidbit at the start speaking of jaded i appreciate that you're not jaded enough to still tell us 334 times later that it's going to be sad. Oh, that was one thing. One reason I was going to say that I drink is because we did episode 333, which is like half of 666. And we had talked about doing something very exciting and then we completely forgot. Yeah, we only found out after we recorded and we asked Eva what episode that was.

And then we found out it was 333. And I was like, well, literally just stopped recording. Oh, well. Oh, well. So to start off, there was a documentary called The Murder of Grace Mullane, Social Media Killings. It's on the BBC. And a lot of this information comes from that documentary. And a lot of this information comes from that documentary.

And just to start off, because sometimes I like to just fucking push you off a cliff into the sadness. Thank you so much. You're so welcome. I'm coming with you, at least. Grace's family, she was the victim in this story, shared a statement for the documentary. So I'll read it here. shared a statement for the documentary, so I'll read it here. Grace was a kind, fun-loving, adventurous daughter, sister, cousin, and friend with her whole life ahead of her. She was enjoying the first of what would have been a lifetime of adventures before her life was cruelly and brutally cut short. Her sense of fun, adventure, her love of travel and

exploring, along with her ability to light up any room she walked into with her generosity of spirit are the memories we as her family cherish and how we will remember her jeez yeah it's a toughie so the story takes place in 2018 and grace malane at the time was a 21 year old young woman from wickford essex in england And she planned to take a gap year to solo travel after graduating from university. So according to Grace's best friend, they'd been friends since grade school. Her name's Paige Gallagher, and she's quoted a few times throughout this story. Grace was a bubbly, kind, caring person. She was always looking after me. She was always the one to take care of everyone else. And apparently she was always looking after me she was always the one to take care of everyone else and apparently she was also known to bring her camera everywhere to keep track of

all her fun adventures and activities that sounds like a like any fun kid of like a young person with yeah what year was this 2018 yeah i feel like that was uh if you didn't have a phone yet I feel like we we as kids went through an era of like you have your phone and your camera. Your cool pics. Your cool pics. Everyone had a cool pics. Yeah. So I feel like yeah that was very common of like well let me I gotta get you don't know when you're gonna need to take a picture. Okay but this was 2018 so like. Oh shit I keep thinking 2008. I know I got that mixed up too. So like she was so in 2018 she was 2018 so like oh shit i keep thinking 2008 i know i got that mixed up too so like she was so in 2018 she was 21 so quite a bit younger than us so was born i assume in 97 um okay but i don't know maybe she had one of those cool fancy cameras that like

i don't know i was always jealous of like like the people who like the. The photography folks. The antique vintage. Oh, yeah. Fold out cameras. I feel like if you're into photography, you just always got one on you. And they're like, you don't use film. And I'm like, I did. And then I opened it by accident and it all turned black.

So I don't use that anymore. Yeah. So she is doing this gap year. She was like a very creative person a painter an adventurer she loved to travel was like really good at making new friends no matter where she went so in 2018 she planned this six-week solo trek through peru and then on to new zealand wow so the first leg through peru oh my Sorry. I just found a cucumber on my lap. I'm going to eat it. When it's been at least an hour since you had a cucumber, because I have been talking to you the whole time.

Where did that come from? Did you eat cucumbers today or was that from a whole other day? It's from my sandwich that I have next to me. So I must have just picked it up at one point and set it back down because I haven't really been eating it. But I just needed a little sustenance, you know. That's much better because I definitely thought you just found that from an era. Well, to be fair, I didn't realize where it was from until after I ate it. So that was my bad. Your life is crazy. I know. I'm a wild child. What can I say?

I've never picked something up and just been like, let's see if I enjoy this. Really? That's all I do. No. No. If I can't remember eating it in the last half an hour i'm not putting it in my mouth i'll eat it nobody you're like nobody offered it you're you're worse than geo maybe i think he'd see that and be like that was from a while ago where he gets it from honestly he does eat rocks and stuff so that could be for me that's about that influence yeah um anyway so she is on this trip uh it's a six-week solo trek through peru and on to new zealand and she had a wonderful time

during the first leg through peru and she made lots of friends along the way and was keeping in touch with her home base so back in England, her family and friends were there keeping track of her and her journey. And she also posted photos of her adventures to social media. So once she got to New Zealand, she kept her social street going. She made lots of new friends along backpacking routes. And one of them said, Grace was just like everyone else you meet while you're backpacking. You're all out there for the same adventure. So they're all just like getting along, passing each other. I don't know, doing parts of the journey together.

And at the end of November, Grace decided she was kind of out of the backpacking part of this trip. She wanted to ditch the trails and go to Auckland and just explore the city. So her new friends stayed and did, you know, their hiking, their backpacking. And she decided to stay in Auckland and just explore the more urban parts of New Zealand. So this means basically she was on her own again, like doing solo travel again. So Grace did what a lot of people do when they're traveling solo and turned to dating apps to find some locals who could show her around the city and i know my cousin did this when she was visiting me

in la and i was like you're meeting someone from tinder and she's like oh just like to like get a ride to venice and get a tour that's crazy i was like because i don't like strangers that much but i guess this this young woman was much more sociable than i i also i mean it's it doesn't seem that weird based on like i don't know i know more about like bumble bff but like i've seen people on there say like i'm only in town for 24 hours take me to lunch and i'm like all right that's i'm not gonna swipe on you but you said all right and I'm like wow that was easy to convince no all right is in like all right that's that's a that's a different way of living than I would yeah yeah I'm not I like if I'm somewhere for a day I'm like can I

just I mean I'll either google it or just like lay in bed and pretend like I am just at home which is probably not a healthy way to approach travel either, but it just sounds exhausting. It does. It sounds like if you're, if you're only in town for a short amount of time, I don't know. I mean,

Alison's like that though. Like she'll travel. She's good at stuff like that. She, when she went, she went to the Philippines before I got there and she like made a friend. And on the same day, they ended up going on like

an eight hour tour together I was like whoa that's like that's a lot of like brave it's very brave because I'm like what if that person annoys me and then like yeah I'm not even that easily annoyed by people but I feel like but if they are or or if there's something like where you're like I don't want to ruin a whole day of my trip yeah it's sort of like oh so now like what if they say something like oh and i my house is filled with indigenous artifacts that i stole from this hotel in south like whatever i don't know but i'm like i don't want to be friends with this person now i'm stuck with them for seven more hours um and i'm sure that's that's just how my brain works i'm sure that's not how it actually goes with that's how my brain works when allison texts me and she's like oh yeah we're still hanging out i'm like i'm like i'm glad and i guess it makes sense in some ways

because at least you make a friend and in a place that you don't know maybe they have some like safety tips or something or yeah it's also like you think safety in numbers like at least you have a companion now and you're not a woman traveling solo yeah or maybe they have maybe they speak the language and you don't if you're in a certain area yeah but it it's it is still bizarre to me but i guess it's no different than like probably the first time someone ever introduced the concept of an uber it's like oh you get in a car yes with a random person yes it's a great point m i feel like i just haven't been in that position enough to really have a fair assessment but in my head it's not enjoyable but I can see why people do it and I'm like good for you you know I'm like yeah I'm impressed by

that attitude and I wish I were more like that but even when I'm traveling I'm just like already tired thinking about it I don't want to go like I already I'm exhausted trying to figure out my own way I don't want to have to like mingle with somebody I don't know yeah and I'm also like really indecisive and I feel like I'm not good in a partnership like that because I'll just let them decide everything and like I'm so picky with what is fun to me and what's not I'd be so scared that I was with somebody who wanted to do like what if I met somebody and they're like look we don't know anybody do you want to form an alliance while we're here also let's go hiking i'd be like oh yeah i feel like that sounds awful and i would be like oh that sounds awful but i'd go that sounds perfect let's go and then i would

hate everything about it you know what i mean like i'm not good enough to stand my ground i feel like i'd be like okay and then just be mad at myself i mean i've done i've ended up in this situation before can you imagine being next to somebody and you find out that they're like not vaccinated and they're coughing? That's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly. It's like, how do you vet somebody so quickly? I mean, maybe people are just better at navigating. We just have significant trust issues.

People are just really damaged. Could that be it? I doubt it. I don't think that's relevant. Anyway, so she's just like kicking ass, like having a great trip, like keeping her friends and family updated. And so she turned to dating apps to meet up with locals who would show her around the city. So, again, this is like a common thing among solo travelers. You know, you meet a nice person in public. They can show you the best local spots. You can kind of, you know, take a look at them before you meet up.

And this way you don't have to like GPS around by yourself all day. And that is how Grace met Jesse. So the date was December 1st and her birthday was December 2nd. So this was the day before her 22nd birthday. Okay. So Jesse was the same age as her, and he seemed kind, he seemed adventurous, and they agreed to get dinner that night. What Grace did not know is that Jesse was a very skilled liar and manipulator. See, that's the other reason I won't just randomly talk to a stranger.

I'm like, I don't know if this is a game we're both in on yeah yeah and i will say too like and i mentioned this in a few bullet points but i'm one of those people where i'm like i can read people really well so i'm but but somebody said that about him like i usually read people really well and this guy pulled the wool over my eyes and i'm like that's scary to me like if you can be such a good sociopath that like even people who are like eyeing you you know yeah think you're safe um that disturbs me so she obviously did not know this and she met up with him for dinner so this guy jesse he had been living back and forth between australia and new zealand over the years. And he apparently, going back through his record,

his history, just told people whatever story he felt like they either wanted to hear or would be the most impressed by. So I'll give you an example. He once told a landlord that he was a professional softball player. Me too. Yeah, exactly. Not special. Were you really? No, I'm just kidding. yeah exactly not special were you really i'm just kidding um that's how convincing you are um so he lied and said he was a professional softball player and he couldn't pay rent yet because he was just waiting for this season's paycheck and he got away with it for months and then he when the landlord finally like realized like this was all just a con he just ran and never paid his rent and so he's also brazen in that way like he just when he gets caught he just ran and never paid his rent and so he's also brazen in that way like he just when he gets caught he just fucking pieces out you know it's a flight risk yeah yeah his landlord told reporters

he was a very convincing liar i thought i could read people but i badly misjudged him and that's when i'm like oh i don't like that so another person had some anecdotes about Jesse. Her name was Millie Mason, and she was Jesse's former housemate. She met him in 2016 when she and her friends needed someone, another roommate, to fill an empty room that had opened up on their lease. Normal, right? Like put an ad out for somebody. And when he responded to the vacancy ad on Facebook, they were like, you know, we looked into him. He seemed really nice. We met him. He was chatty and lovely.

He told them that his dad was a restaurant tycoon in Australia. And then he said he was actually going to be buying a popular restaurant in Auckland. But here's where things where he misjudged the situation. Here's where things where he misjudged the situation. Millie actually knew the owner of that popular restaurant in Auckland and was like, are you planning to sell to my roommate says he's planning to buy your restaurant. And the owner was like, no, I'm not. And I don't know who that is. And I'm not selling my restaurant. Wow.

That's a very lucky coincidence. Right. And I like to think that eventually something would have slipped but like it seems like she was just really lucky to like have made that you know connection in her mind so she went and asked and the guy was like or whoever owns the restaurant was like no i'm not planning to sell so that's when she realized like things are a little off so she starts keeping like a keener eye on this guy jesse and when she went to that restaurant one night for dinner the one that she knew the owner she saw jesse working behind the bar and what

he's an employee there so he made up the story like i'm gonna be buying this popular restaurant when really he was either a i don't know a barback or a bartender or something like that um and he kind of just made up the story so she saw him this is wild and when he saw her and they made eye contact he walked out of the restaurant and never went back to work again i was gonna say he bolted just wow never worked there again that's so wild that he i sorry i wonder what his i wonder what someone's mentality is when they're like that, where it's like never having to own up to anything you're doing. And like knowing you're wrong the whole time for you to just immediately jet. That's crazy.

I bet it's like, oh, I've just gotten away with it so many times I can just go somewhere new and lie and say I've worked in restaurants for 30 years and, you know. It's wild that you would think like hey i'm i don't want to run around anymore maybe i just be fucking honest right it's crazy yeah i agree with you on this obviously but yeah so they're they're they're weirded out but again he's on their lease now or he's at least subletting from them and so she and her friends start feeling uneasy like you know what else is this guy hiding like he clearly lied about like his whole life so you know we're wary of him and one night one of the roommates or the housemates was alone when jesse came home very drunk and we don't know what he said but apparently his behavior

was so off that this housemate she slept with a knife in her room because she was so afraid of him holy shit and it was basically at this moment that they stopped leaving each other alone so they always made sure there were at least two people in addition to jesse in the house at any given time to make sure nobody was left alone with him which like hello giant red flag if you have to like i mean i'm not blaming them. I'm just saying like, wow, you know, that's how you know how bad it is. They refuse to be alone with him in the house. So anyway, that's just a little backstory about Jesse.

So Grace meets Jesse on Tinder, seems like a great guy. So she goes into her date expecting kind of this friendly, genuine guy. And that's who he acts like on the date. During the date, her friend texts her, how's the date going? And Grace responded, I click with him so well. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow. Hmm. But the friend never heard from her again.

Yeah. So December 2nd, Grace did not return to her hostel. And keep in mind, it's her birthday now. Her 22nd birthday. Oh, man. Her friend, her best friend, Paige, messaged her happy birthday and heard nothing. And she thought it was odd. But she was like, well, she's traveling and, you know, in a different time zone and is making friends. So maybe she's just celebrating her birthday. But then Paige kind of touched base

with the other family and friends and found out nobody had heard from Grace on her birthday but then page kind of touched base with the other family and friends and found out nobody had heard from grace on her birthday not even her family members and that's when they started to get nervous so people at the hostel where she was staying were getting nervous as well when she didn't return to her room so her backpacking friends start reaching out to each other and figuring out that nobody has seen grace for over a day. And by the time detectives actually like got the missing persons report set up, it turns out Grace's backpacking friends were already putting up missing persons flyers all over Auckland, asking people to contact them. Which like, I think that's so cool that she met these people backpacking like presumably a week or two ago. And now they're throughout the city putting up like missing posters and being like, us find our friend i don't know i think that's really cool yeah so detectives knew that this would quickly become an international circus media wise uh and it did it was all over the radio and tv in england especially in grace's hometown which must be really hard for

her family her story blew up on social media people in essex said it was impossible to scroll anywhere without seeing an article being posted about her disappearance and grace's family meanwhile decided to travel to new zealand and while they're there her father makes a media statement appealing for her safe return any info about her whereabouts and detectives start looking into grace's social media the last person to comment on any of her social media was a man named jesse shane oh okay hmm so detectives messaged him and found out his full name was jesse shane kempson and the next day he actually reached out to police directly and said oh oh, were you trying to touch base with me?

And they asked him to come in for some questions. So on Tuesday, December 6th, he arrived at the police station to answer questions wearing a three-piece suit. Okay. Yeah. Going to church after this? Right. Like very odd for like a 20s, early 20s guy to show up for questioning in a three-piece suit but whatever um you know people were weirded out and one detective described quote

throughout the interview some things early on were a little bit odd but some people are odd i was like oh well i guess that's a fair way to take it out. Yeah. So he told police, yes, I had been on a date with her the week before. We had matched on Tinder. We matched Friday, began talking Saturday, December 1st. And he said, the last time I saw her is when we parted ways after a casual dinner date. Meanwhile, which Jesse did not realize, is that detectives were actually following Grace's movements on cctv footage throughout the city so cctv or closed circuit television basically everything stays in a closed circuit believe it or not so that it's not like publicly broadcasted and many countries use cctv as a surveillance tool to

investigate crimes in some places like auckland c Auckland, CCTV has basically eyes on just about every street, intersection, grocery store, elevator. Like everything's covered. How lovely. I know. I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. That sounds great. I would love for that to be used for the safety of others,

but also it's raised a lot of controversy about surveillance states and, you know, the private privacy, like how private are we if they're filming everything we're doing, like where are they putting cameras, what's next, you know? So I'm sure there's a lot of controversy and drama, yeah, back and forth surrounding that. And I don't know enough to say anything definitive, but in this case, at least it was beneficial to get to the bottom of this crime so cctv they're looking through it for for evidence and you know it's only a few years ago but like the facial recognition was not as you know really advanced as it is now um and so it

was a lot more of just minute by minute second by second watching just hours of every camera trying to find where she is and then you know follow her so it's very very um tedious and labor-intensive work but you're watching someone's whole day and like still getting cameras that might not catch her yeah well you gotta they had to find her first so they're like just watching them to try and find her and then once they find her yeah to they had to find her first. So they're like just watching to try and find her. And then once they find her, yeah, then they have to like track every camera, which, again, I imagine like incredibly tedious. But they are they're able to follow extensive footage of Grace on her date with Jesse through Auckland. And there was footage of them at the burger place for their date, standing at the counter ordering food. Everything seems pretty normal on the footage.

And Grace is smiling while they're chatting. standing at the counter ordering food everything seems pretty normal on the footage and grace is smiling while they're chatting jesse told detectives he chose the public burger place in case grace was a catfish because he was worried about his own safety he said i wanted it to be public for the security and i'm not i'm not making that sound or face for people who are actually legitimately meeting people of course you want it to be public this guy's just so full of shit that it makes me mad um he says if she's if she wasn't who she said she was at least in my mind i'd feel safe oh yes you and your three-piece suit you weirdo yeah prince charming yeah oh yeah indeed so when

asked how their date ended jesse said there was a hug, a kiss on the cheek, and a thanks, nice meeting you. And he said the evening ended at an intersection between his hotel and Grace's hostel. He said at 8 p.m. they hugged and parted ways in opposite directions. So this is what he's telling. And so in the interrogation footage, you can see the detective asking Jesse to confirm the details several times. Like, okay, so you're sure this time this intersection you just kissed each other on the cheek said bye went different directions he says yes 100 what he doesn't know is they're they're watching this and it's not at all what

he's saying is happening so they're like okay glad we got him, like, repeatedly saying a bold-faced lie. Or bald-faced? Bald-faced lie. Bald-faced? Bald-faced? We're both bald-faced. Bald-faced? Bald-faced. Because you're bold, you're boldly saying it.

Your face looks... But I think it's a bald-faced lie, like, it's... There's not... But your face... But you can look bold as you're lying your face can be bold you can also be bald but a bald person could be bold okay well i just googled bald face and bold face lie and they're both allegedly a thing um what yeah because it's like a bare face like you're there's nothing concealing it like you're just baldly, like, saying something without any...

Understood. You know what I mean? I would think bold because you are, like, you're... How bold of you to just look me in the eyes and say it? Um, yes. I think that's why it gets confused. But apparently, um, bold and bald face are in common use. But experts prefer bald face.

Lie. So that's why I said it. Right, the experts. Okay. This article from the Bar Association of San Francisco says, don't say bold-faced when you mean bald-faced. Okay, relax. Don't tell me what to do. Okay.

So in any case, he's telling this lie that's just... Has a to it. It has some sort of face. I can't confirm or deny. Um, anyway, he said he walked down the street to a bar after they parted ways and had 10 drinks. Okay. The next thing he remembered was waking up in his room at about 10am. He said he was confident about the time he woke up because he checked his phone right away and it said 10 a.m. So again, like I said, he didn't realize that the detectives are outside the room watching footage that is just directly contradicting everything he's saying. So in the actual CCTV footage, you can see them chatting for a while at the intersection. Then they both turn and walk down the street together toward Jesse's hotel holding hands. Okay. Fucking liar. That moment, obviously, proved that his story was an outright lie. They watched more CCTV footage, which showed Grace walking into Jesse's hotel with his arm around her shoulder. They took an elevator to the third floor where Jesse lived,

and this is the last time Grace was cited on any footage because she was not ever seen leaving the hotel. So the detective left the room for a bit, and Jesse apparently knocked on the door, and they were like, yes. And he said, am I being arrested for something I didn't do? And they said said you haven't been arrested mate so so are you in handcuffs nice try yeah you're still wearing your three-piece

suit okay calm down so he came back in with some printed images of the cctv footage and said wait so is this you in the pictures but he still didn't get that like it was contradicting so he was like oh yeah that's me like without thinking and so they were like okay cool so we just blew your whole fucking story yeah and apparently the disturbing thing to detectives was that jesse seemed totally comfortable and chill like not a drop of sweat the entire time um they said everything he told them sounded comfortable and plausible um and you, they said maybe his suit was throwing them off. But also, I feel like that would make me less likely to believe him. But maybe I maybe maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe like the outfit just makes him seem more mature or professional than he really is. Yeah, I guess so. Although I would wonder if the guy that's always bolting for him to just say am i being arrested usually it sounds like if he has any suspicions he's just gone he's just gone so i wonder if he asked to be like can i leave and maybe they were like no you're being held for 40 hours or whatever right you're not arrested but you have to stay here maybe he was trying to get out of it yeah i don't know but apparently the suit idea like made them think he was much more believable so much so that they said if they didn't have the cctv they might have just believed him which is like so shocking and it makes me it

makes me so thankful for things like cctv even if they're yeah in controversy but it might have worked he might have tricked them if there wasn't direct proof that he was lying. So the detective starts laying out all the conflicts in Jesse's timeline. It shows him leaving his hotel room dressed for the day at 8 a.m. on Sunday, not 10 a.m. Like he said, he woke up at 10 a.m. and checked his phone. He's leaving the building at 8 a.m. And the detective says, you haven't told the truth. And after a long silence, Jesse just said, is there something you want to ask me?

That's my exact reaction. So the problem was, although he was lying, there was no evidence that he had hurt Grace, even though she got off on his floor. It's all circumstantial right like we don't have proof he did anything sure so all they could do was hold him for no more than 48 hours so they released him but they filed for a warrant to search his apartment and the forensics team used something called luminol all right all my forensic files girlies out there it's our moment to shine uh so luminol reacts with blood and makes it glow like in those shows you've probably seen this happen um the luminol unfortunately showed massive amounts of blood in his hotel room the missing

person investigation officially became a murder investigation only a week after Grace's disappearance, December 8th. They took a look at his phone and found out that he had been searching for porn at around 1 a.m. in his hotel room. But on Monday, the day after, his phone data showed he was out in a wilderness area about 12 miles outside of Auckland. Sketch. So sketchy all well i don't even want to know but i do wonder like was the porn before or after he killed oh i'll tell you and it's not good oh god i know i know so detectives asked jesse to tell his story yet again and now he's changing it because he knows he's been caught in a lie. Right. So he's like, oh, I can explain everything. He says, don't worry. Take it away. Take it away, buddy. He says he took Grace back to his hotel where she told him about a little book called Fifty Shades of Grey.

called 50 Shades of Grey. I know. According to Jesse, he was unfamiliar with BDSM, but Grace told him she had fantasies related to the book. And Jesse said Grace asked him to hold her throat.

He says the last thing he remembers was falling asleep in the shower, but when he woke up, he said he thought Grace had left, but he left the bathroom

and found her lying on the bed with blood coming out of her nose. Well, that's convenient. You just forgot everything. You just happened to forget after you fell asleep in the shower. And then he said he screamed and tried to wake her up, but she was dead. So now his story is that this was a drunken sex act gone wrong. But the detectives were like okay nice try buddy like you already baldly boldly lied to us so like fuck you and he said he dialed 111

which is the new zealand emergency line uh but hung up because he was too scared and he apparently left his apartment and bought a huge suitcase, brought it home and put Grace inside. And that is what he took her out of the hotel in, which is like so horrific. And then he said, because I guess he thought this might sway somebody, that he sat in his car for a while to pray. Oh, okay.

Then he grabbed a shovel and took Grace to the woods where he buried her. Then he bought a bunch of bleach and other cleaning products to clean up the scene. And now all of these purchases, including the suitcase, were captured on CCTV. So this part of his story was true. Then footage shows him walking around town with Grace's belongings in a black trash bag. And he goes to a park and just shoves them into a trash can, a public trash can. And this is all on fucking CCTV. into a trash can a public trash can and this is all on fucking cctv so jesse continues he to insist that he's panicking this whole time about this death by this accidental death that

occurred but like while they're watching him he's just like so fucking calm just like moseying along like he doesn't seem even upset or nervous during any of this footage that's i mean that's telling like it's not proof but it's telling like that like for someone who's that manipulative you think you would know the like maybe fake a tear that's true but i think he didn't even realize he was being filmed that whole time like since he thought they couldn't track him which i'm like if you live in that town and you're kind of a criminal you probably should know but i guess he knows now so the detective asked to your knowledge did grace die while she was in your company and jesse said to my knowledge i would say yes but he still insisted he didn't kill her and that he didn't kill her with intent at the very least so he took police to the spot

where he buried grace and they recovered and formally identified her remains, tragically. When they did an autopsy, it showed that Jesse strangled Grace for seven to 10 minutes. And detectives felt there was no room, no plausible room for a rough sex defense. So they charged him with murder. The trial began November 4th, 2019, like 11 months after Grace first disappeared. And Jesse's defense team said it was completely plausible that Grace was encouraging. This is so sickening. Jesse to strangle her during sex and that this was just an unfortunate accident. Imagine being her family in the courtroom and having to hear that.

Like, yeah, this just really makes my skin crawl it's just an added slap in the face it is yes and i think later they they even said her family like it felt like grace was on trial but couldn't defend herself like it felt like oh it's so infuriating So the quote from his defense team was Miss Mullane died as a result of what they consensually engaged in during their time together. But the prosecution argued that Jesse would have strangled Grace for minutes until she fell unconscious and then continue to strangle her after she was unconscious. her after she was unconscious so the lead prosecutor said doing that is much more likely to be about what's going through the bloke's mind and his attitude toward that woman than it is to be an accident of rough sex like you're not choking someone until they're unconscious and then continuing to choke them and it's an accident like that goes against everything he's saying like he just thought she had left and then she had a nosebleed all of a sudden. It doesn't make any sense.

In the end, Jesse's defense as an honest man panicking about a sex accident fell through because of all the CCTV footage. And he was described as cool, calm and in control while he, you know, moved through the city, buying a suitcase, buying bleach, just like chilling, you know. Like zero panic is the weirdest thing to me zero like concern not like not it makes it seem like this isn't your first time too right doesn't it it's like there's not even a paranoia about it like this is why i'm convinced he's a sociopath because he just doesn't seem phased like he's lying to everyone if i for some reason killed somebody and was trying to cover it up everyone in town would remember me as like the really twitchy person who was so fucking scared and weird yeah and didn't know where to buy bleach and walked into michael's and was like do you sell bleach and they were like what no yeah um yeah exactly like this is there's something apparently that was really unsettling about the footage

and worse which you had asked before um grace had been dead for a while in the room while he was searching for porn online so it's true it's true so he so he he murdered her then and then wanted to get off to it yeah wow and also like i i don't even know what this means i don't think this i don't i don't know what this means but it's weird that like you would already do something like that and you would still need porn to get off like i feel like when i wonder i don't know that's not a that's not enough adrenaline for you to like i know but i still need more i don't even i wonder i don't know enough psychologically on what that means,

but it seems like if you have this weird thing where like you're attracted to. I don't even know if that's what it is. Like, I don't know if he attacked her because he was trying to rape her or something and he strangled her and the getting off wasn't about the actual violence. I mean, maybe it was, I don't know.

Maybe he just was like, now I. I mean maybe it was i don't know maybe he just was like now i i guess yeah i don't know what i don't know what i don't know what it means but it freaks me out yeah and we don't know the details of like what he was searching for so it doesn't tell us much there um but it's it's very bad like it's very bad it's a very bad look so you know all this looked bad for him obviously and after a three-week trial the jury only deliberated for an hour and found jesse guilty he was sentenced to life in prison but would be eligible for parole in 17 years so throughout the investigation and trial jesse's identity was kept somewhat concealed

in new zealand media unlike our united states, like, our frenzied, like, People magazine approach to anybody on trial. Well, not anybody, just famous people. So they tried to conceal his identity to try and give him a fair shot at more trials, because following his murder conviction, he was still being charged for multiple crimes, including raping another woman he met on Tinderinder years earlier oh my god along with abuse against a former partner who actually had a protective order against him and she actually ended up speaking out and saying she intended to be grace's voice against jesse oh i know i know i know wow

in the end those trials found him guilty of sexual violation, threatening to kill, assault and assault with a weapon. And he did appeal his murder conviction and lost. Last fall, he began appealing those other convictions and lost the appeal again this March. And the convictions are still remaining against him. are still remaining against him. Jesse's former roommate, Millie, the one who knew the restaurant owner and, like, caught him in those lies, said she felt both angry and guilty,

like she could have done more to raise some alarm or some alert about Jesse. But, like, you know, that's just survivor's guilt. Like, there's nothing she could have done because he didn't do anything. You know, he lied to them but like no one no one is blaming no exactly exactly so grace's friends and family said that this guilty verdict was welcome but it obviously couldn't undo all the suffering they'd endured

and the new zealand prime minister actually apologized to grace's family on behalf of the country and they held candlelight vigils throughout the city of Auckland. And they ended up, which is at least some of what of a silver lining, passing new laws in England and Wales to ban rough sex as a defense in murder trials. Oh, wow. Not to defend, not to ban rough sex. That'd be quite something to try and uphold. Yeah. No, but just to be able to basically prevent men from saying, oh, she wanted to be part of this. Yeah, exactly. Grace's family started something called the Love Grace Campaign, where they give out handbags with important supplies to victims of domestic violence, which I think is really cool.

And they explained one of the things that comes out of this is that women should be allowed to do what they want without a sexual predator doing what he wants and taking her life, which is like, yeah, understatement of the century. Absolutely. Millie said, I think we as women are trained to walk with our keys in our hands and make sure we walk in brightly lit streets. Us not knowing what to do isn't the issue. We shouldn't have to do those things. Amen. And in their statement for the BBC documentary, Grace's family said they were relieved the government chose to ban the rough sex defense so men wouldn't kill women knowing they could just use that excuse for a lighter sentence.

And they said during the trial, it felt like Grace herself was on trial and unable to defend herself, which must be just so helpless for the family. Yeah. Now, no other families would at least have to go through that specific circumstance in the area. And they said Grace will always be their sunshine. Oh, wow. That's heartbreaking i know i know so that's the that's the story grace malayne it's it's horrible it's wild how many lies he didn't get caught in until or he probably hasn't gotten caught in in the past it makes you wonder like they like the housemates did like what else is there like what else has he been just making up this whole time and i feel i feel so bad for the housemates too being like i fucking knew something was crazy i mean and it's like so hard

because what do you do in that scenario like you say oh he lied to us about well so what you know like the police can't do anything about that yeah you feel unsafe and like there's nothing you can do except to just get a new place to live and then find out later that he murdered someone like. Yeah. If only there was I mean, it would be wildly abused. So if it wouldn't be wildly abused, I wish there was like a suspicious registry you could put people on. I know. Right. Like a red flag registry.

Yeah. I'm calling it. I got tingles going on about this person we should watch out for him yeah and maybe you should have to have some you can have some validation behind your name so like oh yeah i fucking called that guy so now you get like a verified check mark yeah the rfr the red flag uh registry you're like i know this i knew he was up to something i saw something and i said something yeah anyway boy well christine that was um a doozy an interesting story i hate calling them good stories it was uh i know but it was it was um well researched well done well spoken christine

why thank you my friend except halfway through, you ate a dirty cucumber or something. All in a day's work. Yeah, that was crazy. Well, I guess I'm going to go get my veins ripped out now. Oh, my God. Okay. Well, you know what? We've had a lot of fun here, folks, but M is going to go make me want to crawl out of my own skin.

Everyone go, i don't know everyone go take a walk so that maybe your veins aren't as bad as mine one day keep those veins healthy folks that's what we always say around here and that's why we drink