And That's Why We Drink - E335 The Gospel of Chillax and a Plot Tornado

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

It's episode 335 and is Christine group texting the entire audience of a Taylor Swift concert? This week Em brings us the wild and pious (or is it?) tale of Sister Magdalena of the Cross. Then Christine covers the notorious and fascinating Lady of the Dunes case from Provincetown, Massachusetts. And lastly, we're so sorry for all the technical difficulties. We think Christine's WiFi was haunted by talk of renovating her rusty pipes... and that's why we drink!Don't miss out on Beach Too Sandy, Water Too Wet's last few shows of the summer! beachtoosandy.com

hello christine my little hersing shifter hi my favorite little monster how are you i'm fine how are you i'm excellent thank you for asking a new fallout boy song came out today and i'm so thrilled you asked my opinion about it it's so good and it's um basically a cover of billy joel's we didn't start the fire but with ma with from 1989 to 2023. Oh. I don't know what that means entirely, but it sounds good. Well, you know, like in We Didn't Start the Fire, he's like, Vietnam, blah, blah, blah. So this one is like, you know, Pokemon.

Oh, I got that. George Floyd, Trump got indicted twice. And he says in the song, Golden State Killer got caught is one of the lines. Okay. And then another line is Fermi Paradox. Oh, okay. So that's a 10 out of 10 for me.

I got to tell you, I was beside myself. It's better than the original. Sorry, Billy. Fermi Paradox is where I'm'm sitting and pokemon doesn't hurt screamed it's like stranger things tiger king it's so good you guys sounds pretty good did i tell you a secret did you tell me a secret what i'm i got tickets to the fallout boy concert uh in like a couple weeks and i surprised renee and she's gonna drive down and we're gonna go oh that's very fun when was the last time you

saw them live um i saw them in cleveland with renee like pre-co i think it was pre-covid so a long time ago oh wow okay i know i excited. Wow. What's your favorite song that they do live? They performed Hum Hallelujah, which is the song that I'm going to get my tattoo of. And it's kind of like a lesser known song, or at least like a less popular one. And so it was not on the set list that I had like studied and prepared for. And when they sang it, Renee and I were like, it's a sign because it was our song you know um so i'm hoping they sing that but now i want them to sing about the fermi paradox so i mean i wonder if you're gonna have to practice your chant because when

that comes out live you're gonna have to know what they're saying you know me i get obsessed with lyrics and i memorize every single word like a lunatic um but i will say also guess what i'm doing in 48 hours i'm going to see taylor swift the eras tour yeah my brother got me a ticket why have we never discussed that because i forgot oh most swifties i think would be really a like would be a job smacked that you could forget something like that I told my friend I was like oh do you want to grab drinks Friday I don't have anything going on oh my god my mom was like hey do you need me to watch Leona for the concert Friday I was like what concert and she's like are you not going to Taylor Swift and I was like oh right someone is punching the air right now so I know I'm sorry but not going to Taylor Swift? And I was like, oh, right. Someone is punching the air right now. So I'm sorry.

But but OK, to make you feel better, everybody. I've been listening to the era's set list on repeat and I'm fucking amped. I do love Swift. I just like kind of I do this thing when there's a sensory overload or like an emotional overload and I immediately shut down and compartmentalize and put it far, far like the time chip coffee like commented or followed me or whatever oh right like i saw it and i just immediately forgot and then you brought it up on the show and i went oh yeah i like totally take things out of my brain and i place them aside so i just remember today that i'm seeing t swift and i'm seeing fallout boy we're all happy are you caught up on like the

the lore that is taylor swift and like what all the songs mean ish i got into kind of a zone a few like a week ago and i was like analyzing everything so i but not as like alexander's girlfriend d is like in it like she will argue with people about like who's this is joe did this and this is about joe i'm like i don't know man do you know the the times when you're expected to interact with the songs no oh you're gonna have a rough time throw bread at the screen like uh well like there's certain things that like you have to like shout at certain songs and funny paradox pokemon no sure i think you're gonna have a lot of fomo if you don't practice the the the rules so maybe you have to teach you my brother's sister and blaze have not told me anything about this and they're the other people attending with me so i

feel like at least i won't be alone i'm gonna text my brother now and say, what are the interactions I'm expected to perform at the concert on Friday? I'll just give it like just tick tock. One, two, three. Let's go, bitch. Just just look that up. And that should get you in the right direction. Oh, OK. I will.

Thank you for thank you for your tips. I mean, I should be at this fucking concert. But OK, I hope you have. Sorry. My brother apparently. have sorry my brother apparently oh my brother says excuse me okay so everyone's gonna feel a little silly our interactions just no just type back one two three let's go bitch one two three let's go bitch question no not question mark just just say it see what happens okay i know you put a question

mark i don't even trust you it's too late i didn't i said i'm sorry guess what i'm drinking what taylor swift's personal water and you just forgot to mention it earl grey tea ah i'm having agua i'm having water just like taylor swift probably is by the way uh this is everyone's weekly reminder to take a sip of fucking water because it's sitting on your desk and you haven't touched that cup in like hours. So take a sip. I got a Brita filter for my office so that I would drink more water up here. Okay.

Well, that's nice. Yeah. Because otherwise I have to go to the third floor. But the sink up here is like really, it's like 100 years old. And I'm like, I don't know how rusty that is. So you know what I mean? The sink does look a little haunted. Right? know how rusty that is so the sink does look a little haunted yeah right and so instead i got a

filter brita filter and i have my mini fridge and i'm i'm thriving and i'm hydrating with love if you ever had to renovate that floor maybe just get entirely new pipes just rip the walls out the brita filters doing great um i don't know what your problem is. I just, I don't know if I'd brush my teeth safely in that bathroom. You know what I mean? But I'll wash my hands, but maybe I rewash them downstairs. I don't know. Okay. Yeah, it's fair. I mean, listen, I've lived in old houses my whole life. I get it. There's something unappealing about very creaky old sinks. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, creaky is a good word. Yeah.

Oh, well, what do we do now i don't know are you good i know we've checked in on your legs every day for a while sure my legs are um they look really disgusting i am apparently it's hard to give an update when christine is so grossed out with every comment about the veins not even every comment like it's not even every time it was just some it's when you said some really specific things that just like hashtag triggered me i was like you like i already don't like veins it's but i'm being very brave and strong for you wanna do you wanna like hang up the headphones for a second while i give everyone an update i don't know do they want to know that are they gonna scream and veer off the road?

I don't know. You gave me a platform and now I want to use it. My legs are fine. That's all people need to know, I guess. This is vein troubles. Thank you to everyone who apparently operates on people like me, who has written in and told me why my legs were in so much pain during the procedure. Oh, yeah.

You got some. I saw on Slack some comments, some write-ins, some tips and tricks. I'd like to give you an update, but all I'm going to say is that apparently they were just injecting basically hydrochloric acid into my legs. That sounds... And that's where we'll end it because Christine will barf if I say any more. No, that doesn't bother me. Yeah, sorry. I I say anymore. No, that doesn't bother me. Sorry. I know it bothers you, but that doesn't bother me. It's when you get into the specifics of what the veins are doing and look like.

Oh, no. I understand. It's also the word catheter. I really struggle with that word. It really just does something to me. I don't know. And I've had one, you know? Yeah, the catheters are not good.

Especially because, like, never mind. Never mind. I was like, why does it smell like pee in here? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I understand. Because you're peeing. And I was like, no, I'm not. Oh. But I was. Oh, my God. You're talking about your labor. I thought you were talking about right now. I was like, what a topic change no i said i got a catheter keep up em um so you i mean i'm not surprised that you were peeing because like you're pushing everything out but like did was everyone just like watching you pee well no it's like i had a catheter in for like 25 hours so it was like well obviously over that time you're gonna going to have to pee, right? But since they numb you all the way down there, if you get an epidural, then you can't control your peeing. And so, yes, literally everyone just sees you peeing. And then they were like, you're peeing a lot. And I was like, sorry? Jesus.

I'm a hydrated girly. Leave me alone. Excuse me. I got a Brita filter for my rusty ass sink. I don't know what you want from me. Yeah. You would think you would want women carrying babies, people carrying babies. You would want them to be hydrated since they're taking care of two beings.

But okay, whatever. I would think. But I guess everyone had a fucking problem. I was also in a bad mood. Don't ask me why. It's because I was in labor. I was going to say, is it because you're pushing a human being out? I'd be in a real bad mood don't ask me why it's because i was in labor um i was gonna say is it because you're pushing a human being out i'd be a real bad mood actually it was because i wasn't pushing a baby out because she was in there for 30 fucking hours but you know it was not a great time i don't know

why we're talking about my labor oh because catheters anyway you know we're full of ailments on this show is the moral of the story i'd argue having a baby was a chosen ailment huge ailment though still an ailment i gotta say still a still a doozy on the old body you know oh you were gonna segue and i don't know what you're gonna say but i i was i wasn't gonna segue i was gonna keep keep it up okay i was just gonna say uh i i'm very i'm doing a 180 but i'm very thrilled for our first shh tonight which is um oh yes our sad happy hour which eva remarks is abbreviated as shh yeah i'm excited too it like gives me anxiety because i'm like i don't like being shushed and i'm like a little worried that every time i say it people are going to be like are you shushing me um see i'm more worried about like how much stuff

we have to talk about oh it's a long apparently it's going to be quite a long meeting because we've been uh our sad happy hours usually are not that long usually they're like a half an hour but we've missed the last few happy hours we've never done we've done like one ever. Oh, I'm considering every other meeting we've ever had that just didn't have the name. Oh, before recording. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But we've never had an official sit down like this chunk of time is just to go over shit. Yeah.

We had like maybe one on the phone, but this time the list just keeps getting longer and now I'm adding shit to the list and I'm like, oh God. Oh my. Okay. longer and now i'm adding shit to the list and i'm like oh god oh my okay one of these things says color block apparel ideas from em and christine like do i remember that no someone has no but i love the idea of a color block what a great idea em you know i love a color block yeah so guys i guess look out for that watch this space um because color blog might or might not be coming someday. Well, Christine, I guess that means we got to get things cooking if we've got a whole ass meeting after this.

Let's fucking do it. We actually have two meetings after this. We do? We have a phone call. We do? Yes. Tomorrow, right? No, we have we have we're talking to our manager oh oh that's part of sad happy hour she just wanted to pop in

to have sad is it all right let's call it a meeting and a half okay sure Here we go. Here is kind of a story about... An exorcism's involved, but this isn't... You're not pitching this very well. I feel like if I were in the meeting, I'd be like, next. Okay. This is kind of a story. Here's a story that involves exorcism. Ooh!

Okay, I'm in. Here's a story that involves exorcism. Oh, okay. I'm in. This is the story of Sister Magdalena of the Cross and content warning self-harm. Oh, dear. Magdalena is a family name in my family. Really?

Is your family not want to include you in that? Or what's the situation? My cousin was named magda and she's older than me so we didn't i don't think they repeated names but um is it you think it's going to make it to the next generation i don't know i don't think so her name is magdalena i think it's pretty mag magdalena i don't know it's a little too catholic for me i think so yeah right up there with jesus you know well you know jesus is a is a name a pretty popular one i'm fine with jesus but if i heard someone go oh no actually it's jesus i'd go okay okay interesting okay so we are going back to the 1480s we know it well 1487 in cordoba in Spain that era of T-Swift was like

talking about eras eras yeah I bet Magdalena knew the interactive parts of the concert she would have at least told somebody if she got the tickets 1, 2, 3, bitch

1, 2, 3, let's go bitch that was close you were you hey you're you're practicing i like that okay 1487 spain sister magdalena is born this is where our story begins her parents were artists they did not have a lot of money but they were very religious i'm spain equals catholic a lot of the time and in 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue okay let me write that down yeah that one i think you know um i think just just from the normal indoctrination yeah yeah exactly it sounds familiar apparently as columbus was sailing the ocean blue uh at five years old to rape andena... To rape and kill each other, everyone.

Sorry. Thank you. Nope, that's the truth. We should rewrite the jingle. Well, yeah, good idea. Five-year-old Magdalena, at the same time, has a vision in church. Uh-oh. She hears music out of nowhere and sees a very beautiful man with long hair and a mantle which like a robe

worn by prophets it was so bright that she had to close her eyes oh my this man uh comes to her in church she immediately tells people in uh in the church what happened and they think she has been visited by jesus yeah you got to be careful back then what you say. I mean, now too, with the internet, but back then you say anything slightly weird and they're like, either you're a witch or you're a saint. Something dramatic is gonna happen. And honestly, I guess this wasn't the era

of witch trials, not to my knowledge, but if you say I had a vision, that could have gone real bad for you. Yeah, exactly. That's a scary thing to admit to multiple people thank god they believed her and like a good way in a good way yeah yeah so they thought she had been visited by jesus and therefore she must be like i guess her own prophet or you know someone to look up to as a religious authority so at five years old so people are

starting to travel to her just to meet her just to have prayers answered or prayers you know interacted with i don't totally understand how it works but people wanted to see her and they had prayers that she in theory could you could resolve for them. Interact with. Go. One, two, three. Let's go, bitch. Vamanos. So during this. Viach.

I'm trying to think of how you say that in Spanish. I'm sure it's not that. I don't know how you say bitch. Puta? No? I think so. I mean, it's close enough. Spanish speakers, weigh it.

Okay. Uno, dos, tres, vámonos puta. Beautiful. I'm going to say that at the concert. Okay. That'll definitely work in your favor. At least. I think.

It's got a creative flair to it, which I appreciate. Wait, I have an idea. What if I text everyone who's going to the concert and be like, this is what we have to do. And then I sneak away to buy a beer. And then when they do it everyone has to laugh at them the sick part is i do think you could find the name and number of every single person who's going to this concert my group of people but yes i could also find the

several tens of thousands that will be attending yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i i i really just thought you were so casually saying i'll text everyone the entire stadium of people if anyone could do it it would be i do appreciate your immediate just getting on board and saying sure go for it i'd say uno dos tres you know so uh she so now people are following uh are coming to her just to talk to her, just to see her. Again, she's five. So I'm immediately running on the theory that she felt a weird pressure to continue to impress. This time, when people are approaching her, she's constantly having more visions, which we don't know if that's legit or not, but you decide for yourself. Yeah.

And not only is she having visions, during this time she is falling into religious ecstasies. Oh, no. Which, do you know what an ecstasy is? Yeah. I do not. So a religious ecstasy, um, is, have you seen people have these moments? Sorry. I think there was a lag on my end and it, it sounded like I was just blurting in. Um, have I seen someone have this? No, thank God. Uh, apparently these ecstasies are an altered consciousness when someone theoretically connects to the spiritual world. I imagine this is similar to like speaking in tongues or something like that.

That's exactly kind of how I picture it, like the Catholic version of that. I feel like it's kind of in my mind when people had seizures back then, they were like, oh, it's a religious ecstasy, but I don't, that's just my own understanding. So I don't know. I think in a world where seizures were not considered seizures yet, something, it was misdiagnosed as something. Something, right? And why not make it religious? Fun fact when it comes to religious ecstasies, Christians would test people to see if they were truly having an ecstasy um by do you know this what happens they would put i'm so sorry needles oh i knew it into their into the hands

and feet of someone having an ecstasy to see if they would react or not i did know that for some god forsaken reason i don't know why i knew that but i did know that yeah that's horrific so um if they reacted or winced then it meant that they were still of their they were in their physical body with their physical consciousness and thus could have not been in the middle of ascension gotcha um so anyway she's going through religious ecstasies and her popularity grows. More people travel to her. And Magdalena obviously gets overwhelmed with this and runs away. Oh, honey, she's so little.

She runs and hides in a cave and there she has another vision. And when she wakes up from the vision, she wakes up in her own bed. When this happened, she claims that her guardian angel brought her home which led her to being much more trusting in her gifts and kind of emboldened her dedication to christianity because she truly thought her guardian angel that's kind of cute that's kind of cute and then also damaging because now she's feeding into her own right you know like if this was mental illness or something right um we're just totally ignoring that and she's becoming very herself pleasures and avoid temptations to impress jesus i guess

and soon she has another vision and jesus comes to her and jesus tells her to like it's like i appreciate um the penance you're giving yourself but like chill the fuck out. If you keep doing this so intensely, it's going to affect your health. You're also five. You're also five. Like take a chill pill, girl. Like eat an Oreo. It's okay.

Don't deprive yourself. If you gave someone from 1492 an Oreo, I think their brain would explode. I don't think, I think their body would explode. They'd be like, what is hydrogenated oil? It's killed me.

What's lard? Yeah, exactly. I'm dead now. Have you ever seen those games on those TikToks of like things that would put a little orphan girl from the past into a coma? Yes. Oh, it's my favorite. Out of context, that sounds really bad.

I don't mean it's my favorite, like to put an orphan in a coma I mean you know in context of the game we love orphans in comas we love that and you know what I'm just gonna say it and I'm not gonna back down and I'm not gonna make excuses because this is the real me and if you have a problem then maybe you need

to learn and listen that's exactly right it's not on us. Sorry. But I'm not. So Jesus did not offer her an Oreo. Jesus just said, like, fucking relax. Chill.

I like to think that is actually a direct quote from the Bible. Fucking relax. Fucking relax. Take a chill pill. relax take a chill pill if that was if that was something from a bible that would be on every t-shirt by the way that a church had to offer oh yeah every it would be like it'd be there like peace pray love or whatever peace pray love is it you know eat pray love i don't know it's like a fucking a book not the bible but a book oh my god i'd be really good at making christian shirts i think my bible is eat pray love so if you have a problem with that you can

go eat pray love somewhere else you eat pray haters so he he comes to her he says you need to relax because you are avoiding too many indulgences you are denying yourself too many pleasures like you're a five-year-old chill the fuck out um and i guess she oh god you're frozen again i'm sorry everybody i'm sorry jack our editor i'm sorry what a mess it's literally been um this is a disaster an hour and a half of us with technical difficulties it seems i mean like non-stop like the number of files and i told m i think it's because we were talking about renovating this floor which is where my ghost harry lives i'm like i think maybe he's offended that we want to get rid of his rusty pipes um so i apologize m loves the state of art third floor loves it loves it wants to gargle the

water yes um oh my god what the f all this nonsense just to hear about little five-year-old magdalena yeah i don't let Yeah. Let's just dive in. I had to get my vape out for this. Should I just start from a few bullets ago and just see? Jesus showed up. I remember that. Jesus showed up and said chill because she was

taking her penances too seriously, which by the way, if you don't know what a penance is, because I did not grow up religious. Of course I know. I what a penance is because i did not because i did not grow up religious i live in penance i'm going to hell every second of every day it's a punishment for your sins is that right okay yes it's basically like you are doing penance like you are atoning for your sins uh-huh okay so uh she was apparently doing too much at five which like i don't even want to know what that looks like,

but she was stressing herself out. Jesus showed up. That's how bad she was stressing herself out. Yeah, seriously. Even Jesus hasn't even shown up for me, and I feel like on the stress level, you and I have been pretty high up there. Yeah.

So he shows up and says, chillax. Then she decides that she's going to run back home because remember she ran away oh my god wait i got it a new t-shirt chillax chapter 4 verse 20 yeah right that's a good one i like that yeah yeah thanks what what book is that from though a book of christine okay as you take a vape. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by the way, this is Delta 9. It's legal, federally legal in all states before anybody on the internet is like, cancel this video.

Okay. Fair enough. That's a good point. It's legal. So she runs back to her local church and she begins to pray uh and has another bout of ecstasy someone finds her in the church while this is happening to her and a fun fact they tried to look in her eyes and in the reflection of her eyes they claim to have seen the holy trinity and saints that's a lot of things to see in one eyeball in the reflection of her eyes how many saints are there how close are you to

this poor girl's face that you can see all that plus three more the holy trinity so there's there's a lot going on that eyeball hold on how do you see the holy spirit or god i don't understand how you see the trinity and how do you see the saints in like 4k where you know that you're looking at saints and not just like yourself in the reflection of the eyes right like 4k where you know that you're looking at saints and not just like yourself and the reflection of the eyes right like a blurry person yeah how is it so defined maybe they have halos or something right well shortly after this people begin claiming that she's now also healing them oh okay so uh one guy told magdalena or told the town that Magdalena had actually cured his limp. And another person who had trouble speaking said that she had cured his voice.

Oh. So now she's also a healer. So she's becoming more and more that of Jesus. And the church is now getting freaked out because it's like, how are you healing people? You know, these ecstasies was one thing but now like seeing people walk without a limp that they always had is kind of crazy yes yes many of them are getting like skeptical at this point that like something's going on um they try to interrogate her she's five and nothing comes from it. Meanwhile, the town still considers her incredibly powerful.

However, three months before her first communion, she decides that she's going to fast until the communion. She can't decide that she's five. Like that's so upsetting. Her parents would beg her to eat. Okay. Well, that's good at least. And she would say that she did not need to eat food. I would have just started shoving food in her mouth or something. I don't know. Jesus is like, did I not? Did I or did I not just tell you to chill out?

Yeah. He's like, she's really just going against. Maybe she thought that was a challenge. I don't know. She's like, oh, yeah, I get it. Wink. And Jesus is like, no i don't know she's like oh yeah i get it wink and jesus said no no wink she's like wink i'm on to you jc so despite her fasting for three months she does seem to be perfectly healthy which by the way like emboldens people's belief in her that like she was meant to do this and jesus is looking after her and but when her communion actually came around during the ceremony she loses it apparently

during the eucharist which again i had to learn what that is it's when they where have you been you don't know what the eucharist is no i've been to a church maybe 10 times i know but after rituals and all that nonsense we we talked about Catholicism. I feel like I taught you a thing or two. You did, but it was one of those things where I can't simply remember every episode we've ever covered in detail. Okay, fine. So I know I've heard of the Eucharist and I know that the wafer is involved, but I don't

know what it represents, you know? The body of Christ, and it doesn't represent the body of Christ. It is. It's literally his flesh. Okay, so anyway, during the Eucharist, when the shitty wafer is turned into literal flesh and you're supposed to now be a cannibal, I guess, Magdalena begins screaming and falls to the floor

as if her body can't't repels this part of the ceremony oh no um i guess because she does not want to receive jesus oh no uh or her her body or soul or something does not she ends up on the floor screaming she gets up and says that she does not need to take Eucharist because Jesus has already put the wafer in her mouth himself. Nobody saw it, but apparently that's what happened. Wait, okay. Is this like a magic trick? That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah. Again, this person's five. I'd start to wonder where logic ends and a five-year-old is telling you a story begins. And a five-year-old is being a five-year-old, right? Yeah. It's like, I don't want to eat a shitty wafer, which at 30, by the way, I'd also have a panic attack if I had to eat one more of those things. I think they taste good. Do you? Wow.

It's probably a little thing called Havlovian conditioning. So she says, I don't need to take Eucharist. Jesus has already like handled that. So, and then they believed her because she's Jesus has already handled that. And then they believed her because she's got these prophet abilities. And so they just kind of let her get away with it, a.k.a. she never truly received Jesus, if you are following the Christian understanding of that. Then a few years later, 1497, she's now 10 years old, and Magdalena is now dressing very modestly to humble herself. I guess the people in town thought that she was very beautiful and to her that was a sin.

So she was like, that can't that can't be the situation. Modest is hottest. We're going to have to really get it together. And as penance for her beauty. Wow. And as penance for her beauty, wow, the fact that anything could need penance, she began to self-harm with flagellation, which is beating and whipping yourself. And so you'd think like, oh man, that's really sad that a 10-year-old is whipping herself because she hates how beautiful she is so twisted that's dark it's extremely dark okay hold that comment and say it in about 30 seconds because after uh self-flagellation wasn't enough she decides to crucify herself what

okay listen is she jealous that like she didn't get stigmata like the other saints and so she's like i guess i have to do it to myself she literally on her own bedroom wall nails her feet down into the wall and her left hand and then she's like wait a second yeah she's like i can't get all the way i mean it's yeah like it's so it's so fucked up like it also it also shows like a 10 year old clearly not seeing something through like not thinking it all the way through like right even in the most basic way of like who's gonna nail down the other hand and also like let's be realistic and this i know this is a fucked up conversation to have i'm very aware of that but like i am impressed is the

wrong word but i don't know physically how you actually nail your feet to a wall and then stand up and get your hand up i don't know how that actually works. I agree. That seems. It seems impossible. Impossible. Also. Impressed is the wrong word, just to clarify. But I am trying to figure out how that was even possible. Yeah. Okay.

I have a fun fact about the crucifixion. Okay. So actually, Jesus, when they crucified people back then, which was a form of execution, like not just Jesus, it was like a more widespread thing. Okay. They wouldn't nail you in the hand because your tenons would tear away too easily. And so they would nail it right between here, like on your wrist. And so that's why, so actually his wrists were the ones that were nailed in. I always wondered because I feel like some of the statues are hands, some are wrists.

Yeah, it's the wrist for sure, if it's at least historically accurate. And it makes your hands kind of like fold in. Also, fun fact, I learned that in the second grade. Oh, wow. So you were just about her age. Yeah. Mrs. Yukata was like, you know, your tendons would rip out. And I was like, cool. This seems like a perfectly healthy conversation to have. In this one space, we're adding science to the mix of Christianity. I love it. Right. I know. I'm like, I literally heard myself say, oh, well, if his crucifixion was historically

accurate. And I'm like, what am I saying right now? This is the craziest conversation. Okay. So she literally nails herself to her own bedroom wall, which, by the way, imagine being her parents and walking in on that. Like, they talk about parents walking in and seeing kids sharpie-ing the wall. This is like that times 8,000. Your child's blood everywhere because they're trying to prove that, you know, they're worthy or something. They're like, you won't eat a grilled cheese, but you will nail yourself to the wall.

Cool. This is definitely. Well, also speaking of, I guess, not really science, but just another logical factoid that I wouldn't have even thought of is that she nailed herself to, I guess, essentially drywall of the 1400s because the wall gives out under her weight and now she's nailed to a wall and the wall comes crashing down in her room and then she breaks her ribs on the floor oh so she fell forward she fell forward because the wall i guess couldn't support i mean my guess is that back in back then it was probably just like timber clay or something yeah i would think probably just like wood planks or something she probably just knocked it over and she fell over cracked her ribs and then a doctor tries to mend her wounds okay and uh

she kept trying to take off the bandages to expose her wounds as penance again like this is so like i wish it's obsessive it's like i just wish there was like child therapy back then i know therapy like this is so upsetting uh and it obviously made her sick because she was exposing massive wounds to like really important parts of her body um it so it made her ill so she was exposing massive wounds. To like really important parts of her body. So it made her ill. So she was now bedridden. And the whole time she. Is still fasting by the way.

I mean come on. How. On top of that too. This is just like a weird thing about her. I guess not weird. That's the wrong word. But people are trying to make it into a spectacle where she i guess had two fingers that just had some sort of like thing and they never grew to full size so they just stayed like the size of like a baby's fingers okay um they try to turn that into like, oh, well, Jesus touched these and they stayed small forever.

Like they try to turn it into a thing. What the fuck? So she's now she's bedridden from refusing to have bandages on her wounds. I wanted to throw in the, I guess, fun fact about her fingers because they try to turn that into something. turn that into something and while she's bedridden as clocks as the clock struck midnight on easter sunday of course she sits up in bed starts screaming rips off the new bandages they just put on her and she says that jesus christ has come and is healing her oh no and she doesn't need the wound she doesn't need the wound bandages because he's gonna heal them oh god jesus is my band-aid that's another t-shirt i'm gonna make and uh somehow her wounds actually are healing i don't know how that happened um scientists weigh

in uh she continued though to self-flagellate daily for another six years and by 16 she's doing this every night and yet somehow her wounds are completely healed by mourning okay i mean you're right this is like deep self-harm stuff like yikes uh so now we're in 1504 she's 17 and magdalena joins the convent called elizabeth of the, and she becomes a Franciscan nun. Fun fact, do you know the difference between nuns and sisters? No. Apparently, which I think once I say it, you'll have recognized it, that sisters seem to engage with the public and do acts of service and charity, whereas nuns are in solitude and rarely leave the convent.

Oh, I didn't know there was a difference. So, fun fact for you, I guess I'm the christian here that's crazy whoa how the tables have turned with the reputation she has of being a literal living saint uh many people were thrilled that she had chosen to join a convent and for her the day where she was doing her holy orders, where she like takes her vows of, you know, worshiping Christ, she was told to take them in private when that's usually not the case. I guess it's because she was seen as so powerful. is so powerful um usually the church will bring in all these like nobles and an archbishop and everything except they're usually the religious authority over you while you're promising yourself to christ but for her holy orders the cardinal asked her to pray for them shut up because she so immediately from like the get-go she's being seen as more powerful than them.

Yeah. Yeah. She's like top of the food chain. Climbing the ladder real quick. Mm-hmm. So she was given the name Sister Magdalena de la Cruz or Magdalena of the Cross because of her self-crucifixion story. And during one of the prayers during this day, a dove came in and literally landed on her shoulder. And then it looked like the dove was whispering to her. And then it flew like you're Snow White.

I want a morning dove to come. Coo, coo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he went coo, coo, coo and then flew up to the ceiling and continued to watch the rest of the ceremony. And many people that was the whole thought that was the Holy Spirit coming to visit her on her Holy Order Day. I did ask, what does the Holy Spirit look like? Yeah, a dove. That would make sense.

A dove. Uh, after this, many patrons began donating quite a lot to the church that she was a part of. So just another maybe potential pressure to continue on with this and after she became a nun she began having remote visions of areas that she wasn't even in so her powers are growing and she could recite conversations people were having and spaces she wasn't even nearby she's like an astral spy aha i like that uh she not only knew about conversations though she also knew where missing items were in other rooms and what was going on outside of the convent even though

she never left the convent these are the superpowers you and i would dream of like being able to overhear conversations and like finding all the shit that I lose. Oh, yeah. Like that's all we need in life. It's it's you know, it kind of feels like the Fasting Girls episode that I did or with Molly Fancher and where she could read through a letter like she knew what he said. Oh, my God. Yes. One hundred percent. That was episode 321. If anyone wants to remember to it. How do you remember that? Huh? How do you remember what episode it was? Because I looked it up on our episode guide on our website.

Oh, I thought you just kind of had the thought like, huh, that reminds me of that one thing from episode 321. I was like, Jesus. Oh. I was so impressed. I mean, I have a Rolodex in my mind that's just constantly flipping. But Eucharist kicked right out of there. Kicked right out. Yeah. So her reputation grew outside of Spain. And while she continued daily self-flagellations and having frequent visions, she's still fasting. She hasn't eaten since like three days before her

communion or three months before her communion. And now she's 17, maybe older. She claimed that she no longer needed to eat because she was sustained by the Eucharist alone. Okay. Soon her vision started having, started leading to glimpses into the future. So it wasn't just visions of things happening in other areas in the present. She was now able to see the future.

One example is that she was able to predict the death of a king and she also was able to predict a cardinal coming to power and people started writing to her for prayers and advice about the future even wealthy people were sending her generous donations and gifts um it made her convent the richest in spain and fun fact this is a quote uh king of spain charles v and queen elizabeth asked for a piece of her habit to wrap around their own expected baby prince philip ii to give him the assistance of a living saint from birth to envelop him in divine grace what the fuck that is also the longest request ever yeah for a piece of cloth so even royals are saying like please like can we have a relic of yours my child and keep my kids safe uh royals again were sending gifts and asking for prayers

even the pope was looking to her for prayers which like you might as well be the pope at that point yeah exactly step aside she also was looked up to in decision making for the diocese which obviously no other nun was expected to do and march 25th 1518 uh she told the abbess which is like the convent mother oh okay abbess abbess abbess uh she told the abbess that she had miraculously oh boy conceived a son the son of jesus and she was pregnant with a holy child. Oh. My God. I did not see this coming. Like even a little bit. You just shocked me. Ironically, this day, March 25th, 1518, was the feast day of the Annunciation, a.k.a.

Oh boy. The day Mary found out. Oh. Christine. You went away christine christine did the last one save yes okay well oh wait welcome no oh shit did it save m i'm gonna scream i don't even know what happened and i'm gonna scream well at least our audio saved right okay like our episode saved i mean we're recording locally audio this is like such a mess so we'll just put like a like a fun picture up or something for the time we've lost stigmata a picture of stigmata up or something um wow okay we're back i don't know what happened my browser just like fucking closed and it didn't save our video

this is like so the part where i'm saying hopefully we look better than we ever have on youtube it's just gonna be a black fucking picture so you're like if you're watching on YouTube, we look crystal clear. So embarrassing. Oh, Christine. I'm so sorry. I don't even know what I did. I don't know.

I'm sorry. I think it's because we keep like talking trash about Jesus or something. I literally think that somebody's mad at us is what I think. Yeah. It's gotta be. This is so mortifying. I'm sorry, everybody. And I'm sorry, Jack, we owe you. We're going to buy you a case of beer for this one. Yeah, something, whatever you need. Wild. I don't know what to tell you. I'm not touching anything. Okay. Where were we? Oh, she is announcing she's conceived a holy child i think i was so shaken

that like i i overrode my own internet connection and just like shut my computer down like that really shook me to my core that announcement you made so feast of the annunciation so yeah so um march 25th 1518 ironically is the day of the feast day of the Annunciation, which is when Mary found out she was pregnant with a holy child. So, of course, happy anniversary. Now we've got another generation. Oh my God, Mary's a grandma. Yeah. Oh my God, this is so fucked up.

So now she is pregnant and the abbess was, and I hope I'm saying abbess right. I'm sorry. I think you are. I'm new to a lot of phrases. The abbess was real worried about this coming out because half the convent actually believed her and the other half thought she had just broken her chastity and was hiding behind her power. Yeah. um three midwives gross examined her and say that her gross virginity was still intact no thus it must be a true immaculate conception and anyone who doubted her has to give penance okay i'll give some penance i guess because i don't fucking believe it the ultimate gaslighting yeah right

so fun fact during her pregnancy magdalena got more serious about her penances because whipping herself and fasting and never letting wounds heal was not enough she began while pregnant walking on broken glass like hello now there's a baby to care for stop hurting jesus's baby and you know she's um walking on broken glass and then not letting the wounds heal properly so god damn this is disturbing christmas eve arrives of course they knew on the day when this baby might be coming. They got to share a birthday. Gotta. Christmas Eve arrives and Magdalena prepares for giving birth soon.

But she does it, interestingly, in a house with no witnesses. Oh, no. And she claims that she needed to do this on her own without any medical help because, quote, it was more it was important to suffer more so she's saying like oh it's penance again it's penance this is like she's so mentally ill this is horrible yeah so three days later she comes out and says that she did in fact give birth to a son who shines so bright that it the house lit up like daytime okay Okay. Okay. And yet no one saw through the windows a shining situation. She said during those three days that her usually black hair turned into blonde ringlets. She said that she swaddled the baby in her blonde ringlets.

She said that she wanted to cut some of them off as a keepsake um but when she woke up her hair was black again and the baby was gone and we should just all be okay with that oh no a missing holy child oh no now i feel like your brain is going true crime real quick uh no it's not it's going mental illness okay cool because i didn't want you to think that like oh she did have a baby and no i don't think that part really happened uh she did show well apparently people saw signs of her actually being pregnant i'm wondering if there was like a belly or something hello or it could be like pregnancies i don't know or it could be like i didn't know i was pregnant and she's just somehow rocked this the skinny look i don't know you know so i don't know i don't know

what she's wearing all these big modest outfits you know i don't think it would be like you're totally right she could have stuffed her tummy i'm just saying uh let's see so there is a such thing as a hysterical pregnancy that's true where like you you believe you're pregnant and your body actually shows signs of pregnancy and that's like more common than you think so that could be if she really believed it well she really believed she also gave birth to a baby who vanished and her hair went from black to blonde to black so yeah that should tell us all we need to know i think but she did show signs of having recently given birth and of recently breastfeeding so she had like her chest was chapped and looked really

swollen fuck midwives again gross examined her and and i say gross not because like an examination because like i'm sure they're go they're it's violating when it's unneeded, especially to see if her virginity was intact and stuff. Yeah, that part was definitely gross for sure. But anyway, they do an examination on her and say that she has just gone through birth. Her body is showing full signs of having just gone through birth. What in the world?

The curls that she cut off are considered to be relics by some thought she didn't get to cut them off i think she cut them off like kind of a la tangled rapunzel where like once it was cut the magic went away oh that's what i'm guessing yeah so she did cut some curls off and they're considered to be relics. But others started doubting that any of this was genuine. I wonder why. And they tested her by waiting until she went into another ecstasy and putting needles in her hands and feet. God, I was waiting for the needles to come back. She actually did not move. So they thought that was weird.

Yeah, but she walks on broken glass for a living. That's true. She's so used to pain at this point. Like, hello? She could probably just ignore it. So she was locked away. This was another test they did. She was locked away with guards for 24 hours to fast,

and somehow she appeared in the garden, and she claims that St. Francis teleported her. She had to have used a different word because there was no way she knew the word teleport in the 1500s his hoverboard arrived at my window yeah so um but i mean anyone could argue that maybe she paid off a guard or she said like i am a prophet you have to listen to me and then she climbed out the window or she climbed out the window um but they tried locking her away to the best of their ability and the guards denied ever letting her out.

And she appeared in the garden, obviously teleporting. And when a spot opened for Abbas, when the last one was retiring, Magdalena pretty quickly became the new Abbas and a very cruel one because remember she loves her penance oh shit i didn't even think about it being on other people she began demanding intense penance on the nuns she would she switched out the whip so they would have iron tips

oh my god and she began to make them crawl on the floor floor and lick other nuns shoes in the shape of the cross. Okay. So this is just like now becoming a very abusive situation, not just toward herself, but now other people. This is disturbing. This is another quote. This is from The Baffler, which I sure am baffled. Written by us. Yeah.

It says, they were encouraged to wear crowns of thorns and belts with spikes pointing inward, to kneel on nail-studded boards, to stretch out on the floor, and to have other nuns walk over them. Oh my god. She was known now as Mother Magdalena, as the convent mother. And she said she, by the way, everyone else still had to, but she no longer had to attend confession. Because I guess God told her that she didn't have to. And that she was recently experiencing souls from purgatory appearing before her and confessing to her. And if souls were coming to her for confession in lieu of God,

then all of the nuns need to confess to her instead of priests. So she can control their penance. Yeah. And my literal next thought before you said it was, okay, so she's God now in her own mind because she doesn't have to confess to God. And then others are confessing to her. So she's kind of god is

not needed in this equation anymore she cut out the middleman exactly confessed to me and in which case why do you need penance unless it's so controlling too to be like everybody in the in the place has to tell me what's going on and what they did you know what's particularly sick is that if she's now giving them intense penance and she's acting as God, she gets to pick their horrible penance. And it's for her, not for God. You know? Yeah, true. Like, she's determining it.

I won't forgive you until you do this. You're seeking my forgiveness. Not God's. So kneel on this glass. Oh, God, that's so upsetting. So kneel on this glass. Oh, God, that's so upsetting. Despite support from nobles, dignitaries, and high clergymen,

the nuns in her convent were scared shitless of her and would obviously lie to avoid trouble. Good. I was like, did they have to? Because they're nuns. It's like, you're stuck at this point. You're like, I don't want to lie. Like, that's a sin. Yeah.

Oh, gosh. Okay. I'm glad. I like to think there was like a secret club or something where they were like let's when she's not around we have to like yeah actually figure this out yeah we can confess to each other or like to real god yeah yeah yeah so she seemed to give worse punishments to those she did not like Saprees. Like Sister Isabella, who ran against her for Abbas. She also turned down girls coming to the convent

for random reasons, and then she started getting petty with her visions. One example was that she had a vision, looked at one of the sisters and said, the Holy Virgin has appeared to me and led me about the quarters last night. And she smiled at you, no. So it's like only the Holy Virgin only kind of is okay with you as I am.

Yeah. It's so weird how they mirror. But she is my mother-in-law. So, you know, we just want to keep our relationship friendly and close. I did have a baby with her son. So, you know, we're, you know, I see her for Thanksgiving. That's about it. It's not that serious.

TBD on where the baby is. But, you know, he flew away like a dove or something. I'm sure it's fine. Yeah. Check the rafters. Potentially out of fear, Magdalena still re-elected as abbess two more times she probably rigged the fucking votes or she probably whatever yeah least surprising thing ever yeah and when isabella finally did beat her eventually and became abbess she made magdalena

lick the floors in the shape of a cross so go is Isabella. Has there not been a fucking BBC like snappy dramedy about this? Like, I want to watch this. I want to watch Isabella finally get hers. And she said, I waited a long time, but one, two, three, let's go, bitch. Lick the floors. But she said, uno, dos, tres.

And then we got Magda licking the floor. So now that she was off of her high throne as the abbess the other nuns began to ignore her visions and ecstasies because she no longer could give them make them do anything so they used to help like bring her to bed when she was having one of her like visions but now they would just leave her on the floor um and then some of the nuns found a box of wafers under her bed so uh she was she had this i guess act where during some of her ecstasies she would like manifest magically this eucharist wafer shut up and now that they found a box of them under her bed they're like okay this doesn't seem like they were so manifested as you just had it in your pocket oh dear um in 1543 magdalena got sick

and when a priest came to take her final confession she went into ecstasies again of course probably to avoid having to confess anything yep and the priest said that her eyes moved around wildly which indicated a fake ecstasy he's like i've seen this one before and just in case he decided to do the needle thing again and he was going to poke her with when she went into another bout of this and she did not react but interestingly she did react while her eyes were closed and didn't know this was happening he dipped the needles in holy water and then tried stabbing her and that's when she reacted and she freaked out what the fuck that's first of all not sterile they're dipped in holy water

um that is that's sterile right isn't are they sterile isn't there like a little a little oil in that well it's like a from god right so oh so like not scientifically sterile i don't know no of course not scientifically but who cares about that who needs that so uh she's freaks out when the holy water needles are touching her and this this is when he says, oh, she must be possessed. He's like, oh, it's been a devil this whole time. Cool. This whole time. She must be.

Must be. And the next few weeks, she does seem to often be writhing. There's a quote, writhing in convulsions and speaking blasphemies. Mother Isabella, I'm surprised she even gives a shit. She should be like, you know what you can rot but mother isabella calls an experienced priest and orders the demon to say its name and this is when magdalena laughs maniacally and says there's a demon in her named balbon Balbon. Balbon. And when they begin a formal exorcism, another demon called Patorio says that he's also there.

I'm here too. So there's a little ragtag duo inside of her. There's Bonbon and Pinocchio. Okay, who else? So the demons, they say that she, when she was five years old, made a deal with the devil. When she saw the beautiful man at church who everyone thought was Jesus, it was actually Satan. And he promised her fame for her obedience.

So that's how we got where we are today. That's intriguing. This is a plot twist. Well, I told you there was a little bit of an exorcism here so yeah uh so yeah apparently the beautiful man was never jesus it was satan all along and they said that it was because at five years old she was in fact a very good religious girl, but they wanted to, quote, ruin one of God's favorites. That's so fucked up. A.K.A. all of her visions were never from God. They were always of the devil.

Oh, dear. Another quote from the Baffler. During this exorcism, the Baffler says, The Baffler says, The inquisitor made the sign of the cross over her, and she rolled on the floor, striking indecent poses and mimicking the vile copulations that she had performed with Balbin for nearly 40 years. The cries of ecstasy that the nuns had heard so often coming from the cell were the sounds of this satanic lovemaking.

It was Balbin who secretly fed her all the years when she claimed to eat nothing but a communion wafer. Her pregnancy was a cruel joke they had played on the nuns and the clergy. She was impregnated with a monstrous caterpillar, which escaped from her body with a loud wind that came from that famous Christmas night before changing into Balbin himself

and repossessing her with unprecedented vigor. I think I'm higher than I thought. What the actual fuck did you just say to me? That's why I didn't try to change any of it. I'm so glad you just fucking rolled with it because my jaw was on the fucking floor and then caterpillar and i couldn't even hold it in anymore from beginning to end so apparently she has been sleeping with this demon since she was five years old fucking hell um and she during the exorcism started positioning herself in ways that mimic the what she had been doing with the demon for the last 40 years okay um they everyone realized the screams they had heard her ecstasies were actually a different type of

ecstasy if you know what i'm saying and uh and the pregnancy was never a holy child it was as you said a caterpillar and then the caterpillar was born and turned into the demon who then repossessed her so he was in her then he got out of her, then he went back in her. Okay. This is just horrifying. Caterpillar. Are you fucking kidding me? Okay.

Caterpillar? Like, really? There wasn't anything mother animal she could think of? Yeah. And also, I guess if we're like totally looking at this warped story, it would make sense why she felt the need to do so much penance because it was actually the demons torturing her from the inside out right and they're like yeah yeah yeah that's a good point it's like yeah you'll be famous but you'll be fucking miserable the whole time yeah so magdalena was eventually fully exercised and ended up going to court i don't

know what she was sued for but i guess for i would sue her for probably a number of things at this point i don't know if it was for like the assaults that she had committed as being called them penance. Probably not. That was probably allowed. It was probably something different. Honestly, all I know is they like sent her away from the convent and they had the

courts deal with her. And the courts pretty much decided that, uh, they said a possessed person. So they're really running with like, Oh, she was possessed. They, that wasn't even up for debate. Um, they said a possessed person so they're really running with like oh she was possessed they that wasn't even up for debate um they said oh well you were possessed and the only way that

we know that you wouldn't be possessed anymore is if you could confess uh basically a possessed person could only confess if they were truly exercised implying that they were genuinely repenting and because she was at church and telling her side of the story they considered that a confession um and due to all this and her age which is now like 60 they sentenced her to this was her punishment for everything she's ever done to people this was her punishment for everything she's ever done to people. This was her punishment. Quote, to stand on a scaffold for an afternoon with a cord around her neck, a gag in her mouth and a candle in her hand for everyone to see her repenting. She was forbidden to wear a black veil for three months and she had to walk last everywhere when in a group, which like the social anxiety of that last one is real yeah but like i had to do that when i was little and i didn't fucking do anything wrong it was just you know i always ended up last in a group on the sidewalk but i was always that person who walked on the grass and not the sidewalk yeah of course you were At least surprising thing ever. But apparently that's a full religious court decided punishment.

I mean, they couldn't even Snapchat that back then. Like, what's the point? Like, you get to entertain yourself, see her up there. And you don't even get a photo of it. And after that afternoon, I guess, she was moved back to a different convent. Where, like, if you don't ever leave the convent, you don't even have to worry about walking on a sidewalk in a group or whatever it is. Yeah. She ended up in 1560 at 74.

She died after moving to a different convent. And today she is an example to be skeptical about divine experiences because not because of mental health awareness but because of the devil because the devil is so good at tricking you into thinking something you know it's disturbing because remember at the beginning i was like oh if she were anyone else this would have been a witch trial instead and like right after that a witch shit started happening so it's like an interesting little segue that they're like oh it's the devil is in her oh my god um what a wild tale i know so a lot of people believe that i guess her case was legit but i mean there were some things that never got explained and like seemed a little hard to wrap your head around but right so a lot of people do allege she was truly demonically

possessed other people think that maybe she was just mentally ill i am one of those people yeah i would i would probably agree with you on that one or at least it's most likely but what a story i like i had no fucking clue and there were a lot of plot twists like i did not see the pregnancy coming i did not see like oh my god a caterpillar okay the caterpillar's on another level that was like not a plot twist that was like a fucking plot tornado yeah just like caterpillar what baby caterp demonic caterpillar it's very it's a lot uh wow did you have fun i mean i think so except for all the times that like i fucked up our recording so okay well hey we could still do it again so it's only two and a half hours into our

recording session so um if that tells you anything folks like i don't know what the audio is at right now but um yeah it's gonna be it's it's it a lot. I have a good one for you today, Em. I'm ready. This is the story of the Lady of the Dunes. I don't know what that is. Okay. I thought you might, because it's a Massachusetts story. Okay. So we're going to P-Town, Provincetown. You know it? I know it not well, but I know it.

We're just acquaintances. We've met at a party once or twice, but that's about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's awesome. I've been there. It's known for being like very gay and just like a fun fucking time. That's all you had to say. Sign me up.

I know, man. Well, I thought maybe you knew of it. But I've been there. It is a delight. You should go, folks, if you have not. It's on the tip of Cape Cod in Massachusetts. But way back in the day before it had a really great pride, etc., it was a whaling and fishing town. Ooh, okay. You know, it had its origins, much like probably a lot of other small towns on the East Coast. It was a whaling and fishing town that saw a lot of hard times. But by 1916, this is where we see the shift. It began to shift into a thriving art community with painters, writers, actors flocking there every summer. blocking there every summer.

Many of these artists and creators were gay, and the town became known as a place where the LGBTQ plus community could gather, you know, as like a safe haven almost, if that makes sense. Precious. Yeah, yep. In the 50s and 60s, police tried to shut down drag shows and gay bars. Good thing that's in the past. Oh, wait. But business owners fought back uh because these laws well they weren't good but

also they were hurting tourism so it was like you know let's support the gay people because they bring us money which whatever path we got to take, I guess. Rainbow capitalism, baby. Right, rainbow capitalism. Exactly, exactly. So Provincetown kept blossoming, and then in the 70s it became just like a summer party destination. And it does have a year-round population, which is very low. So it's about 3,000, barely. But in the summer, their population can jump to 60,000. Wow. From 3,000 to 60,000 barely. But in the summer, their population can jump to 60,000. From 3,000 to 60,000.

I'm trying to do math and I don't even know why. That's crazy. All I know is that it's 57,000 tourists coming to town in a day or like, you know, in one period of time. What is that? Like 22 times the amount of people that are usually there? Jesus. Yeah, a lot, a lot. So a lot of people, you know, come and go through this area through its history as an LGBTQ plus safe haven. It's been highly valued for being kind of secluded and a little bit anonymous. And that kind of anonymous culture sheltered many people from discrimination there were other the other side of that coin i guess is that uh people exploited that anonymity in other words it could be easier to get away with crimes in a place like this because you're a stranger and people respect your privacy because you know there are people here who have been discriminated against for being queer or other or different. And so, you know, they're trying to give everybody their own solace.

But some people take advantage of that and commit crimes knowing that they can get away with it. Sure. So on July 26th of 1974, a 12-year-old girl was hiking with her family a little east of Race Point Beach when she spotted the body of a woman lying face down in the dunes. Okay. The woman was in a dense thicket of scrub pines, and her body had been there for nearly two weeks under the summer sun and was badly decomposed. Sure. Yeah. And I don't know how hot it gets there, but the summer for two weeks is all I really need to hear. And like also by the water. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So the woman was naked. Her head was resting on a pair of her own Wrangler brand jeans, sort of like she was sunbathing okay uh and and a blue bandana was down there as well

and she was lying on a beach blanket so it was almost as if she had been actually the girl uh thought that this woman was asleep at first okay um from a distance because she was so still and she was lying as as though she were like sunbathing unfortunately that uh illusion was quickly shattered because her head was crushed holy crap crushed like could it have hit a rock on the ocean or something so no she was up in the dunes so she was right and she was sunbathing uh yeah she appeared to have been sunbathing so basically her let me just i'll just give you the facts here she had suffered severe head trauma her face was crushed and she had been nearly decapitated holy shit yeah so i also think and also i'm going to use my context clues And because you keep saying appear to have been sunbathing,

I feel like maybe she was placed that way because there's no way you just get casually decapitated and you don't, and you're just lying there and letting it happen. Very interesting because there is definitely a debate about that. Okay. So yes, you're on to it. Okay. You've read the context clues properly.

Good job. Thank you. Thank you. So she had also been strangled, but the cause of death was ruled as blunt force trauma, and the blow to her head was so severe, like I said, her skull had been crushed. Hmm. There were also signs of sexual trauma. Of course.

Of course. Of course. She had been penetrated with a wooden object after her death. And you know the only way they knew that was because there might have been splinters. Oh, God. That's so horrible. That's so horrible. It's horrific. Terrific.

So the weird part is, which is basically what you just alluded to, there was no, no, and I mean zero sign of a struggle at all. Okay. It seemed like she didn't fight back at all. Even the pine needles like next to her body were undisturbed. Like everything was just completely placid. Investigators believe she knew her killer and that she was asleep when someone came up behind her sure and attacked her and bashed in her skull sure so i guess this is where i say that is the theory of among people who believe that she was sunbathing in that spot and that she was just asleep or just didn't see it coming right for her to not move at all yeah for her to have no reaction

whatsoever um so that's the theory but then some people kind of what you said think like well she must have been placed there because there's zero sign of a disturbance at all so it's kind of well she must have been placed there because there's zero sign of a disturbance at all so it's kind of debated especially i would say that currently because if you're going to decapitate a person and there's no like significant pools of blood anywhere so there was blood okay just by the time people got there it was gone or you you know, I wonder if that's part of it. I think also everything just seemed so contained that it was like that. Exactly. Some people are with you and are like, there's no way this happened right here. So it's it's it's unclear. So you you are onto something that that's a point of contention among people.

onto something that that's a point of contention okay um among people it gets worse because her hands had been cut off uh at the wrists and presumably to remove fingerprint evidence and erase her identity and on that note might as well make it worse the killer also removed her teeth oh yeah dental records yeah exactly and that just goes to show in my mind someone Removed her teeth. Yep. Dental records. Yeah, exactly. And that just goes to show, in my mind, someone knew what they were doing. Yeah. Or at least. Yeah, sure. I mean, this is the time before forensic files and all that. So it's like, OK, it's not necessarily common knowledge, you know, unless you are in the criminal circles where you know

to remove someone's teeth after you murder them you know i wonder if that was why the near decapitation happened like they were just trying to get rid of the whole head and they just like it ended up being too difficult so they couldn't get through it so then they plan b was remove the teeth you know what i wonder if that's part of it but even if yeah true because if they're taking if they're not getting rid of the fingers they're just getting rid of the whole goddamn hand right maybe not get rid of the teeth but get rid of the whole goddamn face because the face could also have been identified of identifiable true but they did kind of bash her face oh like they did they did attack her face and i think that probably is what they were trying to

do is I don't know about that that you you might be right on that that that was part of their plan originally um so yeah it's all just so I mean it's horrific it really is um and so you know she'd been there for two weeks obviously her body had been like brutally assaulted. And so it was just almost it was impossible to identify her to figure out who this person was. So they tried to trace their the police tried to trace any tips they could to construct an identity. Because how are you supposed to find the killer if you don't even know who was killed? So what they determined about this woman, she was white, roughly five foot six,

145 pounds, and could have been anywhere between 25 and 35 years old. She had red hair and her toenails were painted pink. There's something about those details that are like so intimate and like, yeah, it says more about her personality right and like about like what they were doing and so a dental friend oh sorry sorry go ahead no no go ahead i was gonna say like also like pink fingernails it's like you know she was fun and like you know she's like

going to the beach you know it's there's something so dark and twisted about that specific detail it's odd a dental forensics examiner painstakingly pieced the pieces of her skull and teeth the remaining teeth back together in an attempt to like create uh like a facial reconstruction of her they were able to determine she had seven gold crowns on her teeth and at the time in the mid-70s this would have been around eight thousand dollars worth of dental work wow so basically this is someone well off or who has been treated well off in the past unfortunately despite being such a gruesome and brutal murder in like what's considered a very safe place there were zero leads and the entire region like took off with this story so one journalist named steve derochas said in a documentary on the case quote at its core it's

an unsolved crime but over the years in provincetown it's sort of taken on i guess you'd call it almost a ghost story one thing you have to understand about life out here is that everything gets romanticized and mythology can take over very quickly okay this woman became the lady of the dunes news of her vicious killing went global. Everyone wanted to know who she was, but no one came forward with any missing persons reports. They scoured the area for any matching missing persons reports. Not a single one matched.

And keep in mind, it was tourist season, peak of the summer. You're getting tens of thousands of strangers from all over the world coming here. Yeah, could have been anyone. Anyone from anywhere. And same goes for the killer. Like, that person could have been anyone from anywhere. I mean, they could have, like, even known each other and been on vacation together. Yes.

And, like, one left. Exactly. Like, there's no way to know if she even knew the person. Exactly. Like there's no way to know if she even knew the person. So a forensic anthropologist attempted to create a 3D facial reconstruction with Clay and police were able to release sketches of what she may have looked like when alive. There was one detective named James Meads and he was determined to follow every single lead. He followed up on thousands of phone calls from people who thought maybe their daughter, their sister, their friend was the missing Lady of the Dunes. He had people for years send in dental records trying to match them to the teeth that they had of the Lady of the Dunes, but not

one ever matched. He would go on television. He, outside of work, would go and report on national magazines trying to ask for tips. He traveled around the country personally on his own dime to follow up on leads. Like, this was his case. Wow. He also contacted thousands of dentists hoping someone would have records of this very expensive, at the time, dental work. I mean, that's a smart move move that's the best play to have is like right we know how much this would have cost because it narrows it down significantly significantly yeah yeah so every lead despite all of its hard work led to a dead end detective

meads had the victim's body buried in a cemetery under a grave marker that read unknown female, which is like not quite romanticized, but you know, he actually kept her skull as evidence to continue comparing dental records to missing persons. And he kept it close by as a reminder to keep working on this case diligently nonstop. So in 1980 investigators exhumed the woman's body to take blood samples you know it's been half a decade they're like maybe we have furthered our technology we can we can get some more clues their hope was to match her blood type

uh to that of a missing person okay uh they got the blood samples no matches seven years later which is now 13 years after the murder in 1987 a woman in her early 20s called from canada called detective meets with a bizarre report she said she remembered seeing her father this is wild she remembers seeing her father. This is wild. She remembers seeing her father strangle a woman in Provincetown when she was a child. What? Right? Okay. What the fuck? Strangle and kill?

I believe so. Wow. And she believed maybe this woman was the Lady of the dunes because they would spend time in p-town and that's where this happened her memory yeah but this woman so this was like one of the biggest leads they had this woman ended up moving and never contacted police again and they could never find her oh so this is i know so this was just like this lead that she must have gotten freaked out or felt guilty or something makes you wonder and like sure it's the 80s so maybe she moved and she like changed the phone number and it was hard to track her down or you know maybe there was some you're right like maybe her dad was still alive

and she was being threatened or maybe she retracted her story who knows but in any case she never they could never find her and she never reached back out to police so this was like a big big big dead end the trail unfortunately went cold even though tips kept rolling in but investigators didn't give up um of course the town of provincetown largely moved on, but the Lady of the Dunes became almost like a folkloric, like a mythical figure. And people would grow up hearing her story and contemplating who this could be. And I mean, just the mystery of like not knowing who this like beautiful young woman is, is obviously like captivated people. Detective Meads was like still as go get him till the day he retired. But at a certain point, he realized he had to accept that he might never solve this murder.

And, you know, he retired. And his only hope was that another detective would step in and care as much as he did. Is there? is there what did anyone show up anyone is dedicated we'll see we'll see and her name was christine schieffer i wish i wish i were making big waves like that in the world but um the day that you tell me that you're like covering an episode and you're like by the way i cracked the goddamn case this is episode one where i actually figured it out before anyone else i'd believe it i wouldn't even be like that's the best part you literally thought i could text an entire stadium of people just on a whim like individually text all of them

so i i don't doubt that i have your full support no matter what i tell you if you told me you solved a murder i'd be like well that was kind of destined to happen huh what if i told you i was pregnant with the devil's baby also i mean i would have at least three questions but i would it wouldn't take much other people other people it would make they'd maybe have 10 questions you know so but you just have a couple clarity clarifying questions and then you're on board i would just be like sure of course of course i couldn't i don't how did i not see this coming yeah kelseprise so in 2000 uh the lady of the dunes body was exhumed again, and this time it was to take DNA samples because we fast forwarded through forensic science and now we can test DNA. A woman in Colorado at that time believed the Lady of the Dunes was her daughter who had actually escaped prison in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and had gone missing in 1974, the year that the Lady of the Dunes had died. So they took a saliva sample from her to see if there was a match to the body.

And they weren't related. So this this specific lead was a dead end. But they were now able to use this DNA in the future if anybody else came forward and said, you know, I think I know who this is. So so unfortunately and i say unfortunately because i don't know it just must be it's just tough to hear that they exhumed her a third time in 2013 it's almost like give it up no like just let her rest let her rest that's the thing is like you know they're doing it to try and give her like a proper burial and identity so it's like of course i want them but it's like it's like, of course I want them to, but it's like, it's like heartbreaking every time they dig her up again, you know? And then it's like,

she's not resting, you know what I mean? It's like what Jesus said, like fucking relax, chill out, you know? But no, but like, I want, you know, I want them to, to keep working toward this. It's just like, it's hard to hear. So meanwhile, you know, we're now in the internet age in the 2010s and people are launching their own investigations. People are writing books about the case. They're speculating in forums about who the lady of the dunes could be. Some people actually believe she was an immigrant from Ireland who got caught up in some human trafficking scheme in provincetown but also james whitey bulger you know him no should i oh my god yes he's like one of the most famous like boston mafiosos whitey bulger all right i i feel like the name whitey is a classic mob name, but I don't... Well, he's like a tip-top of the top crime boss situation.

Tip-top of the top. Got it. And he frequented Provincetown in the 70s. Okay. And he was a notorious mobster from Boston. He was spotted several times in local bars in P-Town, and some people believed that he could have been linked to the killing, especially with like cutting off the hands, removing the teeth. Like apparently that was a thing that he did and it was like to hide the identity. So, you know, it wouldn't be that shocking.

And investigators couldn't prove that there was a link between Whitey Bulger and this victim, but it's a theory. was a link between whitey bulger and this victim but it it's a theory in 2013 whitey bulger was arrested after a life of crime he had been convicted of 11 murders was given two life sentences he was a a bad dude um and he didn't go to prison until his 80s so you know he lived out a majority of his life just the way he fucking wanted as a villain. And then in his 80s, he actually went to prison and was beaten to death by other inmates. Wow. So detectives on the Lady of the Dunes case acknowledged they were running out of time to charge someone with her murder because whoever did it would either be very old or dead by this point you know it's been so many decades they hoped maybe whitey bulger or someone would make

like a deathbed confession and solve this cold case which by the way was massachusetts its oldest cold case but like i said j white james whitey bulger ended up being beaten to death in prison. There was never a confession and no one else ever came forward. But people kept speculating. In 2015, a college professor and his students took, by the way, coolest college professor ever. Like, let's solve a cold case. I mean, hello? I want to be in that class.

No, you would be the professor of that class okay kids listen up leona grab your shovel oh lord so in 2015 a college professor and his students took soil samples from the crime scene because people were still visiting this dune like where the body was found this was almost people would stop by it's like almost a tourist attraction by the way when i went to p-town i did not know it was the location of lady of the dunes or i probably would have gone you would have absolutely gone yeah we all know i would have gone um yeah i didn't know i didn't know next time so they were hoping in this college course to uncover some sort of

dna evidence but it's been 41 years after the crime at this point and it's sand like it's the beach it's sand like you're looking for dna samples that's gonna be i don't think i know i don't think i understand like what like if dna dna i assume when it comes to sand because it's a loose ground nothing's gonna stay absorbed for very long or it could get moved around very easily especially after 40 years you could get kicked up right but i don't know if like maybe like sand granules actually do hold like they absorb it enough maybe if you dig deep enough to like soil maybe there's soil under there i don't know how sand works which like it is wild that uh like if let's say there is like sand because i would imagine sand is absorbent but then i would imagine it just turns into like like kitty litter like it becomes like a solid mass yeah which maybe that would have made

it easier for them to just pick up the bloody samples and toss them and that's why we never found anything but also dna could be like pieces of hair or like fingernails you know so maybe that it's wild to think that there could be like on that on that beach, there could be a piece of hair. Right. That would like just crash the case wide open. Yeah. And you think about like a town like that. I mean, this is Massachusetts. Think about the winters. Think about storms like in 40 years, you have one fucking hurricane or one storm. And I imagine most of that sand and shit is washed away. But listen, this is why, despite Em's belief in me, I am not a professor of forensics.

I just read about it. You're telling me the only thing that you have minimal confidence in is soil samples. So I still believe you have a chance. We'll do internet forensics. I could probably teach that. Social media forensics. How to hack into that, you know, like social media forensics. How to hack into a mainframe in 30 seconds or less. Just your casual mainframe 101, you know.

Now, I have a very fun fact for you. And I'm surprised. I was surprised when you said you didn't know Lady of the Dunes. Not necessarily for any reason except like this fun fact, which you might have heard of because it's it's uh it's a doozy so in 2015 joe hillstrom king son of stephen king oh came up with a theory i immediately believe it i know and it's so creepy and good he has to be careful with the type of power he has sorry i don't mean to keep interrupting no he said that basically he said like listen knowing who i am maybe i'm just sending everyone in the wrong direction yeah but but he had a thought and it's a very compelling i will say so he thought he was watching jaws as the son of stephen king would and uh he realized that one of the extras in the background of the beach scene looked identical to the recreations of the Lady of the Dunes.

Hmm. So Jaws was filmed right nearby in 1974, the same summer as her murder. 74 the same summer as her murder and when he released this he basically he put it out there that he felt it was too silly quote unquote to take to the police like he put it on tumblr because he was like I don't

want to like like you said like throw some wild thing into the mix so he wanted to test it out on the public first and people went fucking bananas the theory went viral people were trying to track down cast records for the extras and jaws like people were zooming in to like look at who this person was and you know to not so much success because it turns out they didn't the

director did not have anybody write their names down for being an extra. It was the 70s. You could just wander on set and be an extra. Sure, yeah. So that's too bad. Also, if you see – actually, I'm going to pull up the photo for you because it's pretty creepy. This is an angle of the extra wearing Wrangler jeans and a blue bandana.

Yeah. You remember? It does look a lot like her. You remember the blue jeans and... Yeah. And the blue bandana. Interesting. However, you know, that was a very common outfit back then.

Like, Wrangler jeans isn't the most compelling thing but it is pretty interesting the blue bandana is more shocking to me i think the blue bandana is pretty pretty stunning of a connection i don't know but either way i guess uh stephen king's son was like, there she is. I don't know how he happened to be watching Jaws that closely or that carefully. It's like such a, like he had to have paused it to like go up to the, to like run to the bathroom. And when he came back, he was like, wait a minute. And it's doing that like staticky thing on the TV.

Yeah. Yeah. No, this is 2015. What am I talking about? I'm like, you know, like, you you know he had it on his uh victrola yeah i'm sorry yeah what am i talking about i don't know anymore okay stony baloney no i'm not no i'm not okay did i convince you okay so in 2014 detective meredith lober spoke in an interview on the 40th anniversary of the murder and she i know you asked me was a detective who had taken on the case almost if not as ardently as our detective meads had oh okay hey i like that she did it and uh she said this hate case haunted her you know almost as much as it haunted him so she told

the cape cod times some murders are never solved i refuse to believe this is one of them okay i just love that they're like so fucking on it you know i wish every case had people vouching for it like you know and it's hard to think too it makes me a little bit it's like a double-edged sword because i'm so thrilled that they're you know going to bat like decades later half a century later like really want to solve this but then i think about all the people who are killed and missing whose identity we do know and don't have any buddy like tracking down their killer or i don't know it's it's like a little double-edged sword like it stings a little where i'm like that's great but i just wish or the people who like

their hobby is trying to crack a cold case when there's like people who need help that are alive right now and like i don't know i i then again i guess if you're a hobbyist and not the police i was gonna say i don't know i'm all about solving a cold case and getting justice i just when they say you know when it's this one person obviously that's great but i just wish all the other unsolved cases had people this dedicated and like this had detectives this devoted to the case you know it's like it's like a good thing obviously but i wish it were more though i wish the love would be widespread you know so detective lober shifted her focus uh to raise money for a new casket of the lady of the Dunes. And I thought that was kind of touching.

You know, she wanted to give her more of a proper burial. When she was last exhumed, her metal casket was rusting and falling apart. And Detective Loeber wanted to give her a little bit of dignity since they couldn't really give her an identity. Things looked bleak. You know, we got into 2020 2021 or in mid-covid then 2022 hits em and last year tremendous breakthrough last year shut up we're talking i really thought i thought this was not going anywhere. No, we're talking almost 50 years later.

Okay. Mere months ago. Was it Stephen King's son? Was he right? Cracking this fucking case. So detectives used, can you guess what they used to find out? Here's a hint. Golden State Killer was caught. oh wait fallout boy no okay

okay you know what i'm speaking to not the true crime half of the show i should be i should be more respectful of that um no they used uh genetic genealogy like the oh how they caught the golden state killer of all the things i was gonna say even with that clue it was like did taylor solve it what happened taylor swift did it yeah oh boy no they used uh genetic genealogy forensic genealogy to uh to crack the case to track down a family member with the same dna linkage to the lady of the dunes this is how they caught the golden state killer so on october 31st of 2022 we're talking this past halloween as we record this the boston division of the fbi along with state police and several other official entities, announced during a press conference

that they had identified the Lady of the Dunes 48 years after she was murdered. Wow. And I gotta say, like, I've known about the Lady of the Dunes for probably over a decade. Like, this is one of the earliest stories I remember learning in true crime.

And just that feeling, like I had with Golden State Killer of like, okay, let's be honest, we're never gonna figure this one out. And so it's like so shocking and exciting when they actually do figure it out half a century later. So the woman's name was Ruth Marieie terry oh and by the way i listened to several podcasts about the lady of the dunes before um you know prep while prepping my research

and they were all before she had been identified so it was so weird to hear like the past like you know oh yeah I hope someday this gets figured out, but like not much hope. So it's weird to look back and be like, oh, wow, only a year ago, like we thought this would never get solved. Yeah, it's, it's, it's so wild, especially one of them might have come out and been recorded like a month before that. Right, like right beforehand, be like, it's been 48 years what's gonna change well yeah look out so ruth marie terry investigators said quote she was a daughter sister aunt wife and mother she had connections to michigan california and of course massachusetts

she wasn't an irish immigrant after all she had actually been born in Tennessee in 1936 and was only 37 when she was killed. Ruth left home as a teenager. She had married once and divorced. She then moved up to Michigan where she gave birth to a son in 1958 at the age of 21. She gave him up for adoption as an infant to a couple she worked with, and eventually she moved back to Tennessee. There, she was married again and made her way to Massachusetts, where she died. So, in 2018, her 60-year-old son, biological son, Richard Hanchett, decided to try to track down his biological mother. Oh! Yeah. Richard Hanchette decided to try to track down his biological mother.

Yeah. Growing up, his adoptive parents told him stories about her. He knew she had auburn hair and that she loved to sing. And she had actually tried to reach out to him once in 1971 when he was 13 years old. And this is heartbreaking. At the time, he wasn't ready and he refused to speak to her. And so now it's 2018 and he's trying to figure out where she is, not knowing she had been murdered only three years after she tried to contact him. And he refused to talk to her. Oh, God, that's so sad.

It's so sad. So sad. He took a DNA test through Ancestry.com, which got him in touch with his biological family, who told him that his mother had been missing since the 70s and they had been searching for her for decades. Did any of them, when she went missing in the 70s and the Lady of the Dunes story was catching on, did any of them put the two together? No, I don't believe so. Hmm. Wild hmm wild yeah it's almost like ships in the night like this is all going on if only they had like seen the right news headline or yeah you know it's hard it's hard to believe but

there is no known report of her as a missing person so that's part of it too is they never reported her missing officially right and ruth had always sort of been kind of nomadic. Like she had wandered, she made her way all over the country. And so when her family realized she was missing and couldn't get ahold of her, they didn't even know where to look. So, you know, even if they had seen the Lady of the Dunes headline, they might not have connected the two. They didn't necessarily know she was in Massachusetts. They did say, however, that they had been hell bent on finding her and some of her family members died of old age, hoping to one day discover what became of her. Little did they know she was famous in like the worst way possible, you know? Yeah. Oh, it's just shocking.

So authorities eventually matched her DNA to her son through these genealogy websites, and they took another DNA sample from him in 2022 to confirm the relation. And they told Richard, the Lady of the Dunes is your biological mother. Wow. So what a shock. He had to learn all about his mother, obviously, from the past. Her nephew remembers her big smile she was kind compassionate and independent and he this is sad and we probably saw this coming

he deeply regrets giving up the opportunity to speak to her when he was 13 of course sure um but you know that's not his fault which I'm sure he knows by now. Richard told the New York times, everybody that I talked to who knew her adored her. I wish I could have just talked to her, touched her just once. Makes me sad. Did he know about the lady of the dunes? Has he made a comment about that? That's a great question.

Um, I'm not, I'm honestly not sure. I wonder if they would have, they probably would have said if he knew. But I don't know. He hopes to eventually have her reburied permanently beside her parents in Tennessee, where she can finally rest forever with a name and an identity. This other sad part of this is Detective Meads, who had been so devoted to her case, died in 2011. So he'll never know ruth's name or will he in my version of the universe he does okay i'm glad you've got your own version no i mean like in the like i think once you die like oh oh i i see what you're saying now i thought

you meant like like i'm just gonna writing the story no no no sorry i was like wow in my own personal belief in what happened after we die i believe it's possible he does now know who she is and gotcha i mean not to be that woo woo but maybe from the other side he was able to move things in a certain direction sure yeah it could be his determination obviously still lives Sure, yeah. led to a new lead about the murderer himself, a man named Guy Rockwell Moldavin. Court records show that Ruth had married him just six months before she was murdered, and Guy is believed to come from a family with multiple properties in and around Provincetown. So in 1960, so like 14 years before she was killed,

Guy was called in to answer questions in connection to the disappearance of his former wife and his own daughter. Oh, that's creepy. Yeah. That's wild. That's not good. And human remains believed to belong to his wife and daughter were found in the septic tank under the home where they lived when they went missing. Holy shit. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Oh, so he's suspect number one. Fucking prime ass suspect. That same year, he was also called in for questioning on two cases in California where he had previously lived. One case was that of a murdered truck driver and the other was a missing waitress. And his name had come up in connection with both of those crimes. He fled from Seattle to New York, where he was later arrested.

He was charged with unlawful flight for, you know, peacing out of town. And he was never, ever convicted of these murders. And guess what? 14 years later, his new wife just gets murdered on the beach. What a mystery. And if it was him, like, to think that you got away with it for 14 years. 40, 50 years. Now 50.

Right, exactly. Horrifying. Like, what a streak to be so lucky like that, which is the worst word to use, but you know what I mean. It's now widely believed that this man, Guy, was responsible for the murder of two of his wives, his own daughter, and possibly two other people. Unfortunately, he died in 2002, so there really is no way to question him. Yeah, exactly. He lived out his life, basically, having done these things, if he did. Hmm. Provincetown police are actively, as of this past November, requesting any information anyone might have about Guy and his relationship with Ruth, because we still don't know that much. And in November, District Attorney O'Keefe didn't rule out the possibility that Guy might not be the killer. You know, he said in a news conference, it's very likely that the person who did this is dead, but they may not be. And so the message to them, if they're still out there is we're coming oh apocalyptic anyway that's that story wow juicy stuff sad i mean oh like i never you know i never know what to say but in in terms of enthrallment that was quite a good story yeah it was uh both our stories had a lot of

random plot twists i feel like like i i really thought that was gonna end with a and we'll and we're still searching i really had no idea we were gonna find somebody and i've been meaning to cover the lady of the dunes for years so it's like thankfully i waited i didn't know this was one of your yeah truly i didn't know this was one of your very first uh true crime story interests and it wasn't even like I had a specific interest it was almost just like I've known about it for years just through reddit like all unresolved mysteries you know it was always on those lists of like top unsolved mysteries and so it was always kind of in my mind um wow but when I remember remember when they revealed her identity and I was like so shook, I was like.

Never saw it coming. No. And it gives me so much hope for all these stories we cover where it's like, well, maybe we'll know someday. Like I just live for those breaking news updates when it's like. Like, I just live for those breaking news updates when it's like. Think of that cop who figure detective or whoever that figured out her name was like, oh, my God, this is like my this is my big case I'll be known for. This is it. Like Ruth.

Her name is Ruth. Yeah. I wonder if she was in the jaws. Like, I know that's, you know, kind of irrelevant, but I'm curious. It's still interesting. Like, damn, is she on an IMDB anywhere? Right. Like, I know that's, you know, kind of irrelevant, but I'm curious. It's still interesting. Like, damn, is she on an IMDB anywhere? Right? Like, I wonder if. How crazy.

I wonder if her living family who knows her could look at the screenshots and be like, oh, that's her, you know, or not. That'd be wild if Stephen King's son slipped in there. Out of curiosity, if he just happened to know that, you know, or happened to figure that out. So funky. Wow. Well, good one, or happened to figure that out. So funky. Wow. Well, good one, Christine.

And let me see a picture of her. She's beautiful. And like, of course, just looks so happy and, you know, just makes everything worse. You said it's a geostreo? Yeah. And look at her beautiful teeth. Look at her. Those are some good looking teeth.

Right? She looks like someone who was born in the 30s right the hair like the coiffed hair very very quintessential yes and i also you know it makes you think like if he knew to if it was the husband which i think we all agreed likely that it was the husband um and he had killed his wife his daughter all these other people like yeah he would know about fingerprints and dental records like he would know those things so it does kind of line up in that way as well interesting it sounds like a pretty solved case to me at least a massive hurdle ahead i mean the biggest part is that at least she can be buried with an identity

and her family knows now. Yeah, and buried next to her parents. Yes, which I think is really powerful. Also, I'm just, in general, impressed that we got through this for the last hour without any trouble. I want to be excited, but I'm like

not touching my computer in case I fuck something up again. Like imagine. Well thank you everyone for listening. And you know maybe next week's episode will be a little smoother. But we tried our darndest and it just wasn't cutting it all the way through. Maybe it will be. Probably it won't be.

all the way through maybe it will be probably it won't be uh shout out in advance to our editor jack who deserves a hug after this because it's going to be real messy piece he's like i don't want a hug i want the beer christina and that is coming to you my friend yeah and until then i guess we'll we'll see y'all next week and yeah that's why we drink