And That's Why We Drink - E340 Midnight Moon Bounces and Moody Away Messages

Episode Date: August 13, 2023

It's episode 340 and we miss your celery kisses! This week Em brings us the creepy, gasp-worthy story of the Demon of Brownsville Road. Then Christine covers the salacious story of Kelly Cochran. And are we bringing emo back? ...and that's why we drink!Don't forget, you can always submit your topic suggestions on our website (especially paranormal stories to make Em feel better about having enough topics)! andthatswhywedrink.com/contactAnd check out our new, improved Patreon after chats! We're diving into case updates and new hot paranormal news topics! patreon.com/atwwdpodcast

okay we're rolling uh amen yeah did it christine listen i'm so stressed because i'm going to sweden in like six days less than six days and i did i don't i can't wrap my head around bringing a toddler to europe for several weeks um oh oh my god i thought you weren't gonna do that i'm terrified you should be that sounds awful yeah i feel like it'll be fun because all four of her grandparents will be there so it's like it's not just like me blazing the baby so it's like oh someone take like they'll be thrilled to take the baby off our hands you know what i mean

so yeah you've got built-in setters at least yeah it's just a plane that i'm nervous about i bought i bought so much shit for the plane like m i did that thing where i bought like every conceivable item to prepare in like my in my like uh corporate uh capitalist way of approaching a problem you know i'm like oh the plane's going to be stressful because it takes three legs to get. We go to Detroit. Then we go to Amsterdam. Then we go to Sweden. And I'm like, this is going to be like an 18-hour, I don't know how many hours, a long, long, long. I was going to say, do you know the length? You don't know the length?

I don't, but a long time. So I was like, okay, so what could we possibly need so i bought an inflatable footrest so she can sleep on the plane in the middle seat i bought um i don't even oh i bought a suitcase she can ride on precious like literally everything you could possibly like you type in toddler travel i own it now um and i've really gone off the deep end here um and i do this when i'm preparing for something i'm stressed about i'm like i'll throw money at it and see if it works and it well my favorite thing when i'm when i'm having a big feeling buying myself a little treat is the best thing right so it's the best thing it feels like you're

doing something productive and like making it making the problem easier um but like the amount of sticker books i bought like is it gonna do anything i don't maybe i don't know five minutes she's gonna be like she's gonna be like a sticker what how is this gonna keep my attention but maybe she likes to play with like a freaking pencil so she better be entertained by stickers like hello i mean you should have bought a thousand pencils I don't know I did trust me I bought everything um anyway so I'm just on on edge about that but otherwise I'm I'm okay how are you oh well compared to that I'm dandy that sounds I feel for you that sounds really overwhelming um especially because when i travel my main goal is how many of these hours can i sleep but when you're a parent you

don't get that you have to be i'm like how many hours can she sleep please right right dear god and then oh did you have like a leash or something like i'm very pro child leash okay i bought a leash okay it's a it's one of those ones and they're very controversial. I understand. And I know, I know people are like, it hinders their independence. But if I'm walking down like the Champs Elysees or like one of these fucking giant eight lane streets with a toddler, like I want her to be, and she's a runner, you know, like I'm like, I don't want her running.

I personally don't see the controversy and a parent's main priority being making sure she's safe and not stolen or running away. I know. And it's one of those things where I'm like, I'm not going to just put it on her every second of the day. It's just like if we're in a busy airport and she wants to walk or run, like I'd rather. And it's it's not like elite. Like it's like a harness that goes around. It has a cute little monkey on it and it just goes to the back. it's not like gonna pull her arm out of her socket or whatever people are worried about um and i know like i looked up the controversy because i was like well i want to know

both sides and it's basically like oh well you don't want to like hinder their independence and i'm like trust me i don't think i could if i tried like i don't think i could hinder her independence if i wanted to as a non-parent I don't think I mind hindering their independence in a city neither of us are aware of I'm like I think that's what it is I feel like the line I feel like there's a gray area of like okay traveling maybe is a special circumstance like I'm not taking her to the park and putting a leash on her not letting her go play on the playground like that's not what I'm doing um but so I did buy like I bought literally everything it's well my, my thought is like, what if you I mean, at some point you have to take a nap. You have to. And so like, what if she goes taken off on the plane? I mean, I guess you can't go too far on a plane. Right. So I guess

maybe the plane's the best place for her to take off. But she can one one of I think the best tip I saw from parents online, like I was reading like tips and articles. One of the best tips was do not tell your toddler until you absolutely need to like hold it as a trump card tell them that they can walk down the airplane aisle like wait till it's like the last straw because if you tell them at the right at the beginning the entire flight they're gonna be like i want to go walk down the airplane and you're like right shit now they know you can do that if you pretend like we have to stay in our seats the whole time and then they're getting so antsy that you're finally like okay let's take a little walk down the you

got to save it for last save it for the special occasion um so anyway i've learned a lot about very insignificant things but um here we are well oh and i'm drinking this i got this at jungle gyms it's a mezzo mix it's a german special um what is that it's coca-cola or not coca-cola but it's oh it is coca-cola coca-cola with um orange soda in it sort of it's like oh that's orange flavored cola it's really delicious um and it's all written in german um so i'm you know really preparing oh austria coca-cola austria made this cool good for them it is a little weird because it says cola kisses orange on the front of it so i don't i christine i miss your cola kisses oh i miss your celery kisses girl that's a really r-rated kiss

that's a really crazy kiss for you to say anything about. I don't remember what it meant, but I know we talked about it a long time ago. It was like a three-way, four-way makeout, that's all. Oh, never mind. I don't want to be part of that. Thanks anyway. I do. It was a good time.

Anyway. You weren't invited, Christine. Anyway, you weren't invited, Christine. Well, speaking of babies and why I drink, as you can tell, if you're a YouTube watcher, I am not in the usual troll hole. I'm actually in the closet, euphemism or pun intended. And I'm back at my mom's house. By the way, hold the goddamn phone. First thing I did when I got to Virginia was see Christine and Zandy at Beach 2 Sandy. And they just had the greatest show in the whole world.

And it was like you guys did so great. The greatest time ever. Em was there. Em had an entire receiving line that went like through the venue. And Linda was just eating it up, man. She was like taking photos of M's little VIP line it was amazing the next day we got tagged in so many pictures until we would open them and they would all be M and like people fans and they were like and then they would just tag Beachy City in the

corner and we were like this is hilarious it was so great I was you have some very good fans who happened to overlap into our fandom it was was hilarious. They were so amped. You were there. And everyone was very kind. Everyone did a, I also made sure, like, as I was taking pictures with people, I was like, I don't want to steal Christine's thunder. So like, let's make this super quick. Please do.

But everyone was super respectful. It was actually, it moved a lot faster than some of our meet and greets that have had security. Everyone was just so on top of like being really respectful it was very kind oh they probably wanted to get back to their um nachos at the table but yeah but it was no i was very proud of you and i was also the only time i've ever been in a theater with you and not terrified so and not had the like propranolol situation yeah i know i'm happy i'm so happy you were able to go and your mom came and my mom and your mom got to and my mom came which was kind of a surprise so they got to see each other again

we got a photo of the two of them it was uh it felt like the old days you know there was one person who came to your show who was sitting between the table with me and my mom and the table with your mom and all of your family and so i feel like they kind of in like oh they were just like if they're big fans of either of the shows it was probably to them maybe like hitting the lottery because to their left are you sure those weren't my cousins that just came and had no idea what was going on unless your cousin wanted to take a picture with me and so they were oh no i thought you meant they were just like watching from the sidelines. No, it was just very like, I'm sure they were like,

oh man, I got the best seat in the house because I'm surrounded by all the people that I've been hearing about. They're everywhere. But anyway, you did a great job and I'm very proud of you. Thank you, that's so sweet. It meant so much that you made the drive up, really it did. It was an hour, that's LA,

that's an LA dinner. That's an LA drive to a restaurant jaunt to the pharmacy yeah that's a hop skip jump whatever away um no but so i'm home because deirdre had a baby and i came i came here to you he's really cute and like you know we don't say that about all babies or we don't think it about all babies. I definitely was prepared to lie to her and say she had a cute baby in case. Of course, you said that to me. You said I will try to.

You said to me, I will lie to your face and I will lie very well. And I was like, thank you. I appreciate that. And I meant it. And I meant it with you too. I was like, I'll tell you he's cute even if he's not because there's, you know, he'll grow into it. But this baby actually just really popped out.

He's very cute. Pretty adorable. He didn't really just pop out. I think it seemed like it was a lot longer. He got cut out. He got sliced out. But it's okay. Sometimes that happens.

So now I've got a Leona. Is mom holding up well as a deer? Oh, yeah. And a baby that's a Leo. Oh, you had two Leos i know and uh it was it was a good time we i the well not for deirdre but for me um we were at the i was at the hospital the whole time and it was quite a party in the waiting room i'm here uh dude just getting induced and i was, are you there for three days? What are you doing?

And like, indeed, Em was there for the long haul. I was like, wow, you were in the hospital for like 40 hours. It was in no sleep. It was we were all just so slap happy. But it was like it was really lovely because it's her family that I've grown up with. And so it's like your family, basically. At three in the morning we were just all very delirious and everything was hysterical and the poor people who

had to share a waiting room with us probably hated us but um i wanted to say happy uh that is one half the reason i drink a art an arnie p from starbies today um but the other reason i drank which was this is so random but i just wanted to mention it because it was like such like a euphoric experience um which with all my health stuff i never get to talk about euphoric experiences so here's one um we while i was home she had the baby far away from my house so we were driving and gonna stay in a hotel the night before we went to the hospital and we stopped halfway at one of our other friends houses who was having a birthday party and i ended up staying the whole time i caught like caught up and got back in touch with some like a friend from high school and i guess she had like her nieces at the party so they they rented out like this

big moon bounce for all the kids that were gonna get this party and uh if you follow if you saw my instagram story a while back you might have seen the post about it but it was just such like a lovely moment we uh after all the kids left and all the adults there was only like five of us left and it was me two of my best friends from high school and then two other people that i just met that night and it was in the middle of the night everyone was getting kind of like buzzed and we just ended up in the moon bounce and i didn't see this oh it was i ended up i'll send it to you later or we can post it if it's like any at all important to anybody but um my phone accidentally was recording and i got like 10 full minutes of a bunch of like 30 somethings just me and my best friends from like when we were little kids just like having the most unadulterated pure happiness laughter joy for like 10 straight minutes just jumping in a moon

bounce together and i like there was a moment where i almost started crying in the moon bounce i didn't i didn't i didn't want to ruin the vibe but i like got like i got like just so come on in my feelings about it where i was just like i'm so like this is like it felt very like out of a movie but at the end like sweet we wore ourselves out so we're just lying in the moon bounce in the middle of the night and just like laughing together and it just sounds like something that a lot of adults don't get to do all the time so anyway special yeah so i had that moment this week so that's why i drink oh i'm so happy for you what a delightful time because you were nervous about going home i feel like it sounds like it's been really nice i don't know why i was nervous i think i was just well it's probably overwhelming a bit

no I think I was just burnt out from all the socializing and now I have to socialize more but luckily I've got you know a moon bounce a closet to sit in to record with you and it feels like I'm home and I'm back in the closet just like you always wanted to be just like good old fredericksburg to remind me back to my childhood virginia days um but yeah so uh yeah it's been a good time so anyway i'm home for the next few weeks you will be seeing this tapestry which is my childhood bed sheet as my backdrop um and yeah that's it so i'm i'm drinking my Arnie pee. I've had Starbucks sent to me. It feels like every single day because I just need some sense of normalcy because, you know, not in L.A. Miss the witch, you know, so all that good stuff. What a time. What a time. Would you like to hear a story? I would love nothing more.

I don't have one today. Well, sucks for me, I guess. That's not even a funny joke, but I still think it's hysterical. I love that you can be self-aware enough to know something's not funny, but still find it funny. Like you're like, I think it's funny, even though I know it's not funny. That's really deep. Thank you. I love me, and you can't take that from me. i think i'm funny um that's all that matters also i'm i've been hanging out

with my stepdad so i think he's just rubbing off on me oh lord everything he says is hysterical to him hysterical to him yeah seems like dad dad vibes but dad yeah he's also got that like a lot of dads have that like weirdly booming voice that they could be whispering downstairs and you can hear every goddamn word oh yeah so if he is telling a joke we all know it you know yeah you're all laughing real hard yeah i bet exactly okay well anyway here we go this is um a very good story very spooky story for my dear friend christine my one day enemy christine oh no what have i done i don't nothing yet but i haven't done it yet okay the plot will thicken i think between you and i can at some point but not too far like i don't

want it to be too far because i still need a. I still need a job. That's okay. It'll be like we make one snide comment and then everyone freaks out. Oh, creates the drama. There's now rumors and lore. Oh, I want to be part of a lore so bad. Em wants to be part of the drama. I know Em always says, no, I just want to. No, Em wants to be part of it.

And you just admitted it finally. Finally? Roll back yesterday, two days ago, last week, every day of my life. No, you always say, I don't want to be part of the drama. I just want to watch it. And I'm like, no, I don't think so. I think you wouldn't be part of it. That's also drama that I wouldn't really be part of

because other people are talking about it. I don't know what's going on. Oh, wait, that's true. So we're not part of the drama. Everyone just thinks we are. Because if it's lore or it's rumors and it's alleged there's not actually drama but then wouldn't there be because now we have to address it or i guess we don't address it huh oh that's interesting what would we do in that

situation you know what would we do would we lean into it i think it'd be fun to send out cryptic like posts like i don't know who you are like you know how people do like the um so you want to get involved in the drama. Oh, I absolutely do. I never denied it. I would absolutely love it. Happily, I will be involved. No doubt.

But like posting on Instagram, like with the like colorful gradient background and just straight like some people always disappoint or something like so generic. Listen, I've been planning for this my whole life i was born for this we should look up some like really like moody away messages from aim and just see what fits us best it's probably just fallout boy lyrics i'll just keep posting them and people will be like what does it mean we'll we'll have to post like a picture like a selfie or a mirror picture in black and white with like some yeah oh god we could bring emo back um this is gonna change my life for the better anyway someone started rumor about us um and please and maybe we play along i

don't know maybe i'll say something really rude this episode and then that'll just kick start it you know let's find out maybe today's the day something rude and then i'm gonna get all in my head i'll be like was that for the plot or was that was no it wasn't real then we'll accidentally get into a huge fight and everyone will be like it's a big joke and we'll be like no we're really sad imagine everyone thinks we're like pranking them and we're just crying and like oh how the turntables you know yeah we knew it would come to this well okay while we're still friends you know before the episode you better hurry here is the story that i think is kind of

spooky oaky this is the demon of brownsville road oh okay and we have we have a very lovely researcher who gave me a caveat to this um who uh so i guess this is a quote from our researcher sersha most of the sources come from a memoir that bob wrote bob is the main character in the book bob's backstory is a lot to take in oh uh love that veil like that's the kind of comment i feel like would start a war between us yeah it's just a lot to take in you're a lot to take in like that will probably start a war for sure between two gemini's i know i need to call my therapist immediately um bob's backstory is a lot to take in he was a famously self-proclaimed reagan republican with a lot of self-importance he credits himself like hang on now he credits himself with single-handedly cleaning up a corrupt police department run by evil democrats and at one

point in the book he says quote to this day i'm a hero to the african-american community lord have mercy what the fuck kind of quote is that and then so by the way guess what race he is you can figure it out yes what a psychotic thing to say i'm here to the end so then serger says so yeah the story of the actual haunting is good. But if you read the book yourself, brace for his autobiographical chapters. Em's like, I never was more thrilled that I don't read books in my life. Except now I'm kind of sad because I'm like, what is going on here? This is the one thing Em's going to finally read.

And it's going to be because of this stupid racist man. No, I'm not giving this person my time. But I am curious what makes him think he's a hero to the black community he cleared up all those filthy democrats so oh right well thank god someone alert someone had to do it so uh his name is bob cranmer um and he grew up in brentwood which is in pittsburgh pennsylvania and as a kid he would walk by this manor uh in his area which you know I love a manor love a manor you live in a manor thank you I feel so seen I mean I don't feel like I need to be thanked because it's true stop it I'm just

stating the obvious that's why we're gonna have a celery kiss with that kind of attitude. Oh, so there's two ends of the spectrum. Like all out war or celery kisses. And I'd love to stay in the middle. Maybe that is the rumor, Christine, that we give each other a celery kiss. Maybe that's the rumor. I mean, I am wearing a shirt you gave me. That's got to be a clue, right? Grandpa's cheese barn.

You're wearing my shirt. We're talking about four-way kisses. It's just the two of us. It's just a matter of time before the internet starts talking. then all of a sudden you flee to sweden for like three weeks you know so i just disappear no word from me um no i love a manor especially because as christine said my apartment is the schultz fourth manor and i love her very much yeah despite her roaches um as a kid he would walk by this manor it was not mine and the address was 3406 brownsville road and he really really dug this manor he would imagine like the family who got to live there he it was just very fantastical to him which again if i ever see a spooky looking

manor i would do the exact same thing. Oh, I relate to that 100%. Selene and I would walk around and go, one day we'll live in that house and adopt 400 dogs and cats. We still to this day, every time we see a cool house, like a really old spooky house, we send it to each other and say, like, I finally found the mansion for our million dogs and cats. Like, that was always our plan. So I totally get that vibe, like finding the big spooky manors. always our plan so i totally get that vibe like finding the big spooky manners we um we as in me and allison have a fun um habit it's my favorite habit of at 3 a.m i mean everyone else does it going on zillow at 3 a.m zillowing only looking at the victorian manners that are just so out of our price range yeah you should do that in in my area because they're

definitely more affordable but they're like also like way older because they're like from you know you see some weird shit in these zillow pages oh yeah well in like kentucky some weird shit out there well there's a manor at 3406 brownsville road apparently so go check that one out if you want um and by the way fun fact it is now a national landmark so uh the manor had three floors it had a big porch with pillars had fancy stairs uh had servant stairs in the back yikes they always do and it had a big wraparound balcony i love a wraparound anything balcony porch how delightful would that be a wraparound anything. Balcony porch. How delightful would that be? A wraparound. Oh, what a dream. Anyway, if you're looking to send me any Zillow posts about Victorian manners.

Send you a mansion. If they have a wraparound porch, I'm five times more likely to dream about it. Sorry. The so it was like this really extravagant manner to him as a kid and it was not technically ever seen as haunted there was another house in the neighborhood that was said to be haunted and when he was a little kid he and his friends actually tried to go to the haunted house and they tried to like get in to the house and the door wouldn't budge and as they were leaving the door flung open all by itself and somebody said please get off my property like did somebody live there that

seems like of course they couldn't get in i have no more information other than that it sounds like he had a spooky encounter at a spooky home i'm just gonna go along with like there was nobody living there because what's hope otherwise that would be really yeah well so that was you know his only really spooky experience as a kid was the house that wasn't the manor he loved he grows up he joins the military he meets his wife i think her name's lisa it's with an e instead of an i lessa lisa oh interesting and he ends up leaving the military and he has to go back home. His brother suddenly passed away. And him, his wife, and his four kids all move back to Bob's hometown to be close to the family.

Okay. So while they're there, there's a family called the McHenrys. And they're the family that actually lives in the manor he loved as a little kid. And they're selling it oh shit here we go and they're somewhat desperate to find a buyer well well well why could that be nobody knows so they took bob's first offer right away red flag and they said they gave the excuse of like oh well his wife had to relocate for her job like asap but it seemed a little off to them but yeah didn't really matter this was like the

home he fantasized about his little kid i mean whatever you i get it though like i feel like you'd you regret it if you didn't jump on a chance you know i've always said i don't care what it costs i somehow but in this world by the way and like in this fantastical world where money means nothing i don't care how much it costs but if the charmed house is ever available i'm doing it i'm doing it i am going deep into debt for that it's like you often talk about how much things cost so i don't know in what world you're living but i see what you're saying as far as the charmed house specifically the charmed house or money is no object or the michael or not michael j fox uh marty mcfly's back to the future house one of those two if it's free i'ma going and both of them are a half an hour from me currently so it's not

oh shit so any day now you can be broke i'm saying that would be fun one day if i day if I start complaining about money, just know that maybe I live at either of those locations. Maybe you do complain about money. I'm like, not in a real way, but just in like a, everything's expensive, which it is. But I'm not going to know anything's up until you like make me pay for your Starbucks or something. And I'm like, uh-oh, what's going on? If I ever say I moved and i have zero dollars to my name you can probably guess where i am i think i'll figure it out uh so they took bob's offer right away um and they were like hey you want to go on a tour of your new house let's get a cooking

let's do a tour um and during this tour bob's daughter said that she was very uncomfortable in the house and wanted to get out of there do we know how old she was I think she was six at the time oh god okay I was thinking like maybe a teenager six I'm like I trust you six year old you know 16 year old no credibility no six year old thousand percent um so 16 year old just wants a pool okay we all know but the six-year-, there's something going on. Yeah. The six year old wanted out of there.

And Mr. McHenry, who's giving them the tour, said that, oh, fun fact. We used to hold a lot of Catholic mass at the house and we even took Eucharist here. Okay. Why? Weird. Whatever. I don't think you're supposed to do that, but whatever. Bob said that verbatim, which is crazy.

He said, okay, but whatever. I don't think you're supposed to is crazy. He said, okay, but whatever. I don't think you're supposed to do that, but like, okay, I guess. I don't think so. His voice changed like two octaves higher and he was like, what are you even talking about? And he held his drink just like that, you know, what? I'm sorry, his Stanley, his Stanley water cup just like this. Yeah, I think so. So Bob, who was raised catholic he knew that this was not common and he especially knew that taking eucharist outside of a church was like not a thing no no big no no um not a thing that's actually the best way to put it it's not a thing that's what bob said at least not a thing but so they're still on this tour uh and their son they have three sons, one of their sons wanders off and the McHenrys particularly are really concerned

that he's alone in that house. That's not a good sign. As they're saying, like, we need to go get him, they hear him scream. Fuck. When they all go find him, he's at the base of the stairs with his eyes shut and we don't really

know what happened beyond that, except that when Bob and Lisa got there to like get their kid, they felt this really weird energy there. And I guess Lisa's probably onto something. She's like, um, this isn't okay. But,

but Bob is like, so enamored with this house still that he just chalks it up to like oh we're feeling the history of the home which is like the most blinders on yeah dad thing i've ever heard in my life oh yeah it's basically equivalent to like oh the house is settling yeah exactly exactly so and also i wonder if there's any you know so many haunted houses they it seems like the owner of the house or the the father or the husband seems to get a weird attachment and like can't leave the home you know you have i feel like brought several stories like that to the table and i've definitely seen episodes of tv shows where the mom and kids are like dude what the fuck why are we still we gotta go yeah yeah um yeah so maybe

there's some something like that at play. Yeah. So he also thought that moving into this house not only was kismet and that it's something he's wanted since he was a little kid, but he's starting to look for signs as to why this was meant to be. So, for example, it is a weird coincidence, but I guess a previous owner of this manor had a had an estate sale at some point and bob's siblings knew how much he liked the house and went to the estate sale and bought him like a baby crib for for him like when he was expecting his kids um and so he's like it's so weird that like the crib my kids sleep in came from here now it's going to go back to the same

room it came from like like he's like he's finding connections as to like why they were meant to come to this house so right okay lisa however said that the house felt like it was quote laughing at us i feel like we were being taken in by it ew what a spooky way to put that i've never heard that but i that's like a creepy phrasing like it was laughing at us that makes it sound so sinister not just like it was trying to get rid of us like it was mocking us uh-huh like you're already being stared at with horrible intentions yeah oh god so bob was super set on moving in he He said that the house made him. This is maybe something that something akin to what our researcher was warning us about with his grandiose opinion of himself. Yeah. Bob apparently said that the house made him feel very important and that it matched his grand ambitions and ideas he had of himself.

Well, that must be where he's plopped his writing desk down and decided to write his memoir about how great he was to the african-american community so i get i see how this is all coming together full circle oh christ okay so anyway there you have that this is maybe the house where he wrote the memoir for all i know it must be um so december 12th in 88 this is when they move into the house okay um which is interesting 12 12 88 i wonder if that's got anything oh numerologists out there let us know 12 12 88 they move in the kids are incredibly uncomfy one of them uh is what not one of them one of the four are always sleeping in the parents room because they're uncomfortable in their room. Their son Bobby especially hated his room and his room is called the blue room because of its blue wallpaper.

Original. They refused to Bobby refused to sleep in bed ever. And it became the norm for him to sleep on the closet floor in his room with the light on. Didn't you do that? I did do that for had your bed in the closet oh that is still a thing yeah oh what were you talking about and like this this closet i think this is a different closet i'm in a different room um i'm not the one where you like had your bed but that was more like a right like wasn't that more like you could fit your bed in there so it was like i i can't fit my bed in there yet so you had like a cool hangout area in your room or something i don't know my room became my room when i was four and it was essentially i think it was like

it wasn't the master bedroom or anything or the sorry the primary bedroom anymore by the way we're saying primary not master anymore yeah in case anyone's wondering it's uh it's it's now um elevated terminology to avoid the the use of that word yeah um but so it wasn't like it wasn't the primary bedroom but it still had an attached bath to it but i was four and i think my mom was afraid of me like having i don't know my mom was afraid of me like having i don't know if she was afraid of me like falling or slipping in the tub or something it just never became a bathroom it just became this weird random offshoot room in my room oh so there wasn't an actual bathroom in it oh were you guys building the house yeah oh okay so it was like

meant to be a bathroom but it just wasn't turned into one. Yeah. So I have a bathroom sized second room in my room, which is so weird. But for like when I was a kid, that was basically just like storage. Yeah. For an only child, man, you got like all the space. I love that. Made in the shade. Yeah. And so anyway, it perfectly fits my bed and like a little table and a lamp in there.

So then I have like my whole actual room to be like a party pad party zone um it was a very cool setup and so that is why i still sleep in my closet when i'm home but um no i used to sleep in like uh like a usual like a normal closet also for a period of time but in hindsight i think that was like a sensory deprivation thing oh i get that i slept in my closet growing up sometimes it's comfy every now and then it can be cozy like enclosed space yeah i really like feeling like i'm enclosed but not suffocated of course obviously uh so bobby the son he slept in the closet and i wonder if that was like essentially a big blanket to him. You know how if you hide under a blanket, you feel like the ghost can't get you?

Yeah, you're like just hiding away. Like you're enclosed. Which is so wild, though, because I feel like most children's ghost stories are there's someone in my closet. They're scared of the closet. That's a great point. Are you being drawn to the closet? That's a great point. I didn't think of that.

point are you being drawn to the closet that's a great point i didn't think of that well eventually his parents give in to the fact that he sleeps in the closet and literally put like a crib-sized mattress in there for him to sleep on oh honey and one day bob is in the yard and he finds a metal box buried out there and in it was a bunch of catholic rosaries he asked the mchenrys about it and they said to put it back exactly as it was and they didn't say anything else about it so that's a what's what's more red than a red flag um crimson i don't know that's a black flag that's a bad news so the closet at the bottom of the stairs not the one bobby was sleeping in a different closet um the closet at the bottom of the stairs not the one bobby was sleeping in a different closet um the closet at the bottom of the stairs was sleeping in yeah yeah it's like a like the lobby or foyer lobby it's a well it is a manor but like the your hall your main hallway that

staircase had a pull chain light bulb well and they started noticing that every single day the chain would always tangle itself up no matter what ew bob said that there were even times he would close the door for 10 minutes after untangling it come back and the chain would be tangled yeah what the fuck that's weird and specific very specific and also every morning the basement lights and radio would turn themselves on by themselves and the chair down there would move to the center of the room facing the wood stove like someone was getting warm i was like what were they doing oh getting warm by the fire oh that's creepy bob and lisa also started joking uh that they probably had a ghost but at least he seemed friendly um which i feel like if you're jumping into it too eager i don't know if that's helpful or not no and i love that they're like

it's a funny joke right guys yeah isn't this silly everyone right why won't our friends come over so weird how funny we are the kids however did not see it as very friendly and at night they said they would hear footsteps in the hallways and knocking on their doors which i hate that it's like if something's already freaking you out in your room the knocking on the door it feels like a trick of like making you think that you have to give it permission to come in but it's already come in 100 because it's like why the politeness like why are we even pretending to be polite unless it's purely to intimidate of like knock knock knock i want like i'm here yeah i wonder if that's why he slept in the closet like so he couldn't hear the knocking and imagine if

you didn't hear the knocking on the closet door that's where my brain goes so i would be done i'd be like i'm not sleeping in a closet because Cause if it comes to the door, I'm screwed. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. Well, so Bob's mom sends a priest over to bless the home and Bobby, this is where I'm starting to think maybe he's attached to something because Bobby wouldn't let the priest bless his room.

Is the book, the kid who slept in the closet. Shit. That freaks me out. That does. That does. So the priest doesn't bless the room and eventually bob um after they've lived there for a few years i think a few years he no it has to be pretty recently as soon as i don't know the time frame but i think it has to be pretty recent um bob is

starting to get into local politics and he's working all day long from like six in the morning to ten at night at the same time the house is being renovated and now just because it's being renovated they're all sleeping in bobby's room um but lisa was struggling with bob being gone she was the mom of four i think they were four like under four or something like they were all very young she was a school board president and also because they were in a very democratic area she was having a hard time making friends oh no because bob is now like a public republican politician yes yes i imagine that would put some conflict of interest in your friendships and soon the pressure was too much for her that she was temporarily hospitalized with some mental health issues oh no and when she came back the renovations were over so um only bobby was left

in his room now so it's like bobby was now left alone in a room after renovations which we know always stirs up the ghosts you know like ghosts hate renovations i don't like it um and this is when the kids begin seeing shadow figures oh shit that's never good news and bobby would hear ghosts moaning in his room at night god ew one night the kids held a sleepover with their friends and they started hearing a pounding on a door um that was leading into another room they opened the door and all of a sudden the next room that they walked into felt like it was as cold as a meat freezer just ice cold ew and when they're like drawing them in there oh i don't know the knocking like i'm over here i don't know i'd be like you can stay there yeah exactly um they walk in it feels like a meat

freezer and then they hear someone from the other side of the room that they can't see start running towards them as fast as it can oh my fucking god they just hear the the footsteps of bam bam bam bam that just like took my breath away i don't enjoy that. They all scatter, of course, and the friends never came back. Why would you? Good. And another time, Bobby was sick home alone, and he started hearing loud bagpipes. Okay. When he hears the bagpipes, he's like, first of all, what in the world is that?

Yeah. bagpipes he's like first of all what in the world is that so yeah and then into his room comes skipping a faceless child-sized body made out of static or lightning bolts what skipping is the scariest part of it all it is somehow skipping or hopping was what i was about the notes that hopping's not good either because like why boing boing yeah terrible ew you just gave me chills yuck faceless child-sized body made out of static or lighting bolts it hops over to him stands at his bed and then leaves what the fuck why once that figure leaves a shadow figure is standing at the doorway oh no it it reaches into the room and bobby tries to hide under his blanket but before he knew it the blanket was

ripped off of him and when he looked around and looked back down at the bed the blanket was perfectly folded at his feet oh that was nice they were like i was just doing a little housekeeping i mean can you imagine if you had like a cleaning lady come over and you're sleeping and then she just goes ah and then just folds it perfectly complete silence just like you're like what the fuck is happening and after a faceless child came jumping in right he's made of lightning can't be explained so um but yeah so he rips the blanket off now it's folded at the foot of his bed then a glowing figure comes floating in it's like a fucking circus going on like it feels like a circus but it's like one at a time yeah like a parade um a glowing figure comes floating in oh and bobby screamed everything went away okay that's good i guess

i like how they were like whoa we didn't know we were scaring you like sorry geez this is our parade and you're being kind of an asshole well later on a priest would explain that the small figure was probably a child's ghost that was being controlled by the shadowy figure. Oh, that's sad. He also said that the glowing figure might have been an angel, but Bobby said, I didn't feel that was angelic and it was horrible. Yeah, I imagine that Bobby would have known if that was a comforting presence. It feels a little invalidating for the priest to be like, oh, it was your protector do i can see why that might

be like oh you know that could be comforting if you if the child believes it well like clearly after bobby saw these beings more family members began to see that same shadow figure and they started describing it as five feet tall straight hair, and made of a dark black mist. Oh, shit. The family then began smelling sulfur in the house. Some of them could even smell urine. And Lisa could smell her old amniotic fluid from when she was having her kids.

What? Is that not crazy? What does amniotic... I mean, i wouldn't even know what that smell is i guess if you your water breaks then you know what the smell is like if you had your i didn't my water didn't break so i'm like like not out and about but you know how sometimes people water breaks like at home or yeah you know what i mean yeah i don't know what it would smell like but i don't either but i'm saying then you probably would remember the smell because it was such like a instant that's true like such a moment in time but i mean i had my water broken at the hospital

so i don't i was not paying attention to what it smelled like i don't even like but how wild like you would think sulfur is the worst because that's ingredient number one for a demon. Yeah. But then it also smells like urine. And then it smells like your own amniotic fluid that hasn't been around for years. Amniotic. Okay. Here's according to Romper.

Amniotic fluid smells like bleach or semen. Oh, maybe it was just semen. Gross. She did have like three boys in the house, didn't i'm just saying that's a good point i do think they were all children though so i don't know what they okay okay never mind but i mean that is so funky and like i feel like that's like symbolic in some way of like reminding you of your children or something like it's like to pray on her maternal instinct that's so gross i mean not the fluid but just the concept of like preying on your maternal instincts truly like at your core like your your womb territory i don't know it's very my womb territory you're infringing on

well so bob interestingly he said that it smelled like body odor um and he said so it's weird that everyone is being yeah handled differently or it's all i mean it sort of is a body odor that's a good point in some ways um he said similar to body odor it was only about a three foot range which meant though that if you smelled, that meant it was standing next to you. Oh. Oh, no. I'd be like, Mr. Demon, you got stinky armpits. I put on some native deodorant.

No parabens or aluminum. no parabens or aluminum so just anyway fun fact it smelled terrible no matter who you were great um and bob's political career is now kind of you know coming to an end and he's beginning to work at a new job his daughter is now 16 and she is pregnant and ends up having a son named colin and her grandma watches the baby when she still goes to school bob's sons bobby and charlie are now getting into like the metal goth scene oh which bob associates with an interest in satanism yeah and he started surprised by that i know and he also started uh really butting heads with his sons um i don't know if he started really butting heads with his sons

and it seems that it started getting physical and at one point the cops were even called and he was arrested and not allowed to come home for two months while they investigated oh shit that's not good um and because he was a local politician too it was all over the news bad bad look during this time this is again where maybe his um i don't know his uh hmm maybe if i'm i don't know i don't want to do any um i don't want to say any wrong things but the implication that maybe he has some narcissistic tendencies um is also shown here because apparently during this time when he's not allowed to come home he blames the tension at home on a sinister cause and he thinks that his kids might be being affected by the ghosts there versus like maybe him just having a tumultuous relationship with his kids right okay

so he's just blaming he's essentially what he's saying is like man if only these ghosts weren't around our exactly we'd have the most harmonious family of all time it's like i don't know what was going on in their home but there seems to be very little introspection that he could be at fault in any way it didn't it doesn't seem like it's harmonious a and it doesn't seem like he's really helping the cause but yeah again i don't know what was going on for all i know maybe he's right but i would also look into accountability and see if there's a factor there you know right right right um so over time though the tensions do start to fade between him and his kids it's now 2003 and bob notices um that one day the downstairs closet with the pull chain for the light bulb is now starting to tangle itself again and it hasn't done that in oh it

stopped doing it oh no that's not that must be that moment where you do a double take and you go not again yeah right oh that must be so chilling so it's now tangled itself and as a test he decides that he's going to tie a rosary to the chain and close the door and then see what happens. What a fun test. I'm terrified. Either nothing or something so bad. Or like the worst thing. When he checked again, he saw that the rosary had been intricately taken off of the chain and was hanging on the coat hook. Oh, that was nice of them to keep it intact, though.

I thought it was going to be like all the beads were scattered everywhere. It was gentle. Yeah, I thought it was going to like explode or something. Yeah, that's what of them to keep it intact, though. I thought it was going to be like all the beads were scattered everywhere. It was gentle. Yeah, I thought it was going to like explode or something. Yeah, that's what I was picturing. So this kind of confirmed his theory all those years ago that there really was something dark in the house. And he ended up standing in the closet, kind of like me right now. Yep. And he read the Bible aloud just to like try to get this thing out of the house.

Imagine coming home from school and you're like, what is that dad? Like, and you're like looking around, then you like open the closet. There's a rosary hanging on a coat hook and he's just sitting there like, Mark chapter 16, verse 32. You're like, okay, I'm just going to close the door. Dad, imagine having your friend come over with you and you're like, ignore my dad. You might hear some prayers in the closet. it's typical don't worry so uh as he's reading the bible in the closet he says that he feels incredible dread and that someone immediately appeared next to him or he could feel someone standing next to him bob and lisa begin noticing activity all over again with

electronics malfunctioning the clocks would always stop at the same time including their grandfather clock oh what time did it say that's an interesting question but I don't know what oh interesting um one day the upstairs sink turned itself on and flooded the entire house all the way down to the first floor and another time the iron turned itself on and fell over on its own nearly starting a fire so now this thing is really getting dangerous oh god that's when things are like no joking matter anymore yeah it's not just a chair by you know sitting at the fire it's a fire it's a literal fire right another time the uh or their their son Bobby was hanging out with his girlfriend in his room, and both of them saw one of his CDs levitate into the air and then fly into the wall so hard that it dented the drywall.

And the CD was okay? I'm thinking the CD shattered since it got frisbeed in to the wall. I was like, I'm more impressed by that than anything else. But wow. I don't know. I like cds used to be pretty sturdy it might maybe you just have to like breathe on it and wipe it every time you want to play yeah that's true that's every time it flies into the drywall just give it a little shirt rub you know it'll be fine uh bob finally went to a local convent and was told that this sounded like a demonic presence. I'm like, what?

And Bob was referred to a Father Ed Moran. Moran? M-O-R-A-N. Moran? Moran. Either one, I think. Well, Father Ed, he blesses the house. But the next day, every picture on the wall is now crooked.

Ugh. The furniture was moved around. Doors would lock themselves without the key, and the family had scratches all over them. And Bobby and Lisa even had puncture wounds in their body like something had bit them. Puncture? Oh, my God. That's bad. One was in Bobby's stomach, and then another set of puncture wounds was in um lisa's breast oh god ew the only person who is seemingly unfazed through all this is their

other son david um but it's like what the fuck are you guys talking about david's like whatever i am doing to keep them away i gotta i gotta figure out what that is and keep it up um but yeah he seemed somehow unfazed i wonder if the i wonder why like do you think the ghosts were like you're not important or you don't threaten us or you're harder to crack like i was gonna say maybe it's the opposite like he just has like a block that like a wall up for some reason i don't know maybe that's wild uh bob calls father ed again father ed brings over father mike and around they always do it's like prison mike but this is father mike close enough they both wear a do-rag inappropriately and say they talk to the dementors

around this time their daughter jessica moves back into the house with her husband and son and the first night back her son colin sees a figure standing over him and then walk into a wall excellent start good start when this creature walks into a wall the wall was connected to a crawl space so bob hears about this and he moves into their room and at night he would start praying and he would hear pounding by the crawl space that's horrible the crawl space i mean i know it's cliche but a crawl space man i'm not about it have i shown you i haven't i forgot we have really big crawl spaces in this house so you don't have to how big are they do you have to crawl yeah you have to crawl in um but they go really far back that's the fucking worst like what was what i think i'm

still confused about the advent of crawl spaces because i understand that it's in theory storage but no i think the advent or i think the initial purpose was to be able to access like the eaves of the roof or like access certain parts of the house in case you needed to do like say maintenance or repairs i i'm not a hundred percent but i'm pretty sure that was the original because they're just meant to like squeeze in to to access points of the house that are hard to reach that's wild because the crawl spaces i've ever seen are all cemented up where it's just like a it essentially looks like an outdoor basement or something um an outdoor basement like it looks like an outdoor storage room like it's like i mean i think they've probably been turned into that because nowadays we don't necessarily need

those access points because we can just hire someone to climb up on a ladder and do it from outside or whatever or we can hire someone i'm not sure i might be totally off base but that's i feel like what i i recently wouldn't that totally makes sense because my question was like why do they have to be so goddamn deep like what do you have to get over i think it was to access just all around like the eaves of the roof and places that you wouldn't normally be able to reach i'm pretty sure well so anyway the crawl space is now knocking back whenever he prays in there i want nothing to do with it and because of this he would actually open up the crawl space stick his head

in there and pray even louder to piss it off and then he's wondering like why things are almost catching on fire seriously like and also don't like don't stick your head and if you're gonna do that just like crawl on in tell us what's in there. Like, have you seen a horror movie? Just don't, why would you open the door? Just commit and crawl all the way in. If you're going to be so ballsy about it, the real plot twist would be that they're unfazed.

Unbothered son was the one hiding out in the crawl space and scaring everybody. Okay. Now we're talking a thriller, a little true crime. He's got to be fun. The chaos. Yeah. As far as we know, that's not true, but that would be a really good ending to this i like it um so yeah so their

grandson colin is now saying things are walking around going into the crawl space um and jessica their daughter starts having sleep paralysis oh and she would see a figure with a grotesque face at the end of her bed smiling oh god always a smile she tells her parents that she used to actually always have sleep paralysis when she lived in this house as a kid but it stopped when she moved out and now it's only come back she's back in the house see so it's a it's a contextualized by where she is oh no bob goes to his friend casually the mayor of pittsburgh um of course it's his friend or is it or does he just say it's his friend in the book and we're supposed to believe him just a thought i'm just asking he's got father ed father mike mayor of pittsburgh was the mayor african-american was

or not like where did he stand i've just like i feel like we're missing slight amount of context but what do i know it's the perfect amount where like you could write a thriller about this and you'd be it'd be inspired by a true story but not based on exactly like i never heard of him i don't know uh so he calls up the mayor of pittsburgh of course sure you do that yeah who contacts the diocese uh bishop who refers bob to not father ed or father mike but father ron um father ron never goes in the home he just consults with a catholic mystic away from the home and then calls in to say what the mystic told him. Which, like, it sounds like Father Ron is not needed.

It sounds like the mystic is doing all the work. It sounds like the Father Ron is just, like, middleman, yeah. So the mystic describes the house in full detail, including the blue room, without ever having seen this house. And then he says, or this mystic says that the house has a, quote, focused evil energy. The mystic says. Was that you or a ghost? That was me. My skin went cold.

Like, wow. Okay. Sorry. No, I knocked my mic. I saw it move. I've been watching a lot of Paranormal Caught on camera. And it's like every time now we're on video and something happens, I'm just like, oh, did we capture it for the show for Paranormal Discovery Channel? No, that was you.

That was you. I feel bad, but it was just my mic. I just bumped into it. It's probably for the best. So Father Ron talks to this mystic, and the mystic is able to describe Bob's house in full detail, including the blue room, without ever having seen it. Okay. And he says that the house has a, quote, focused evil energy inside, which I feel like is no different than Father Ed or whoever saying there's a demon there. It's like, yeah, we've done this.

So what's next? Focused evil. We get it. Yep. Father Ron tells the family to sprinkle salt in every corner of the house. I mean, I could have told him that. Yeah, also, like, I don't know enough about, like, you know, I know salt in theory, like, protects you from evil. Like, I can't imagine with things almost catching on fire and having sleep paralysis and things walking through walls.

I can't imagine salt is going to be your only cure-all to this. Oh, I would imagine not. walking through walls i can't imagine salt is going to be your only cure-all oh i would imagine not i was listening to a podcast yesterday where they were saying um somebody had a brazilian um uh mystic had or i believe a priest i don't remember their title but had suggested putting ammonia in all the corners of the house and i'm like sounds like they are already smelling ammonia so i don't know if that's gonna fix it but it's like just pee in the corner just pee in the corner um so father ron tells them to sprinkle salts everywhere or in every corner and also to wear gold crosses but bobby's keeps coming off and appearing in odd places so it's coming off of your own person and disappearing and reappearing elsewhere if it's

on your body and disappears yeah that's bad that's like way what do you call it uh invasion of personal space like beyond which like lets you if it can without you even being aware take something off of you like it could hurt you for sure. Like, it could push you, couldn't it? And the fact that you wouldn't notice that it's taking it off of you is also creepy. Because it's like, what can it do to you that you don't even realize is happening? It also gives us more insight into our ongoing theory about items disappearing and reappearing. Like, it shows you how close the limits go of like oh you could have your own wallet in your pocket and that's still not

holding it against your body and it could vanish yeah because like do you think they're being like kind of dazed on purpose so they don't even notice or do you think they would even do you think they would feel it if they were paying attention great point is there like a charm that's briefly put over you where you don't even yeah notice or does it just disappear and it like like is it just like pop vanish yeah it's also like do you think if you're charmed into some sort of haze like maybe you take it off and are even aware that you you did it and people are like i just watched you do that worse yeah because then you can just be hypnotized and there's like a that's an extra

level of whole different lack of control like you can just walk into traffic at that point you know that's why i put a leash on everybody i know including you i'm putting a harness on you toddler harness um so bobby's keeps coming off and reappearing in odd places. And after all these years, they finally move Bobby to a new bedroom. It only took that finally. But on his pillow, he finds his own crucifix covered in teeth marks. Also, blood splatters begin showing up on the walls and stairs the dog is barking at empty rooms and the smells of urine and amniotic fluid come back

what the there is something so primal and scary about the smells of urine and amniotic fluid like that really is getting to me now because it's like that is such a primal like cycle of life like symbolic thing yeah and ritualistic and ritualistic and also very very specific like very distinct like oh it creeps me out, man. Because sulfur, you could be like, oh, that could be the smell of like, you know, the water has a little sulfur in it or like that's a naturally occurring smell. And with amniotic fluid, it's like, well, that's amniotic fluid. Like, yeah. What else could it be? I don't know. Oh, my God. Father Ron asks Bob if there is anything associated with negative energy in the house that could be drawing the stuff in.

Bob is like, I don't know what you're talking about. I can't think of anything. Oh, wait, except I do have a weird amount of war memorabilia from World War One and World War Two. And some of that collection happens to be wink german memorabilia oh shit oh shit he gave apparently most of his collection away by this time but he did find

oh oh that there was still one nazi medal still in his drawer what the fuck is he doing with that in his drawer father on looks at bob and goes like girl like come on come on father on tells him to seal it away in a box with a cross on top of it to contain the energy and then later says that he has more information from the mystic and apparently the mystic has now said i have a new revelation of your house apparently a doctor used to live here in the 20s and 30s and he used to give at the time illegal abortions to amniotic fluid bingo fuck interestingly the doctor used to actually live down the street and the house that the kids swear were haunted no no no no no no plot twist so he has ever since as a child when that door flung open with his friends he has been attached to this spirit probably you have just shaken me to my core this is crazy

it has always been with him which is so weird because that also makes me wonder like i don't know timeline wise which house he saw first but it'd be interesting if he went to that haunted house was affected by the spirit there and then every time he walked past that manor he always had a drawing to it for some reason and it always stayed with him until he became an adult and moved in interestingly the doctor used to live down this used to live in the house

and the thought is that he had an official practice in the haunted house but then secretly rented a room in this manor for the discreet abortions shut up the mystic described them seeing a door of sorrows that women came through for the procedures and that this house was on the back of the house bob confirmed that a few years before something they hadn't told anybody during during renovations, they actually did find a back door sealed between two walls. He's like, oh, I forgot to mention that secret door that was hidden between two walls.

Yeah, you know, I always forget to talk about that door and my Nazi medals. Oh, and you know how I love to talk about my nazi medals how but not as much as i love being a hero for the black community that's right that's right oh my god m what a fucking guy this is messy um fun fact also during the renovations a while back bob's uh i guess the builders or whoever they found under bob's kitchen a small four by six empty room and was it was it hidden it was hidden they didn't know about it so i guess maybe it was sealed off the only thing that was in there was a single wooden plank with a man's name written on it what we? We don't know who it is.

Maybe it's one of the builders. Maybe it's the owner. Maybe it's the doctor. I don't know. Father Ron said that the doctor was careless during the procedures and would often perform these abortions drunk and would harm his patients, and many died in the home.

On top of this, Bob also found out that in the 1700s a mother and her three kids were murdered and buried on the property under the oak tree outside what do we know why nope this was on top of this was not by the doctor right this was a different time period different time period okay on top of that he also discovered that there was a rumor that the house had actually had a curse on it from one of the original builders i mean at this point yeah i believe it like something bad is happening well father ron said that all the darkness on the property probably opened a portal so one day he has four priests and ministers come over to go to the four corners

of the house and pray and things were very quiet after that until the priests and ministers left and then the smell of sulfur comes right back and foamy liquid starts showing up on all the floors oh no that's spooky then colin said he saw a monster in the blue room so jessica is like i hear you we're out and just fucking moves done uh bob also thought about moving out many times but he didn't want to give in and let the entities win so he was too proud essentially yeah well maybe that is why um we see that with with men kind of being more attached. Maybe it's just more like, no, I don't want to leave because I don't want to get kicked out of my own house. The role of protector.

Right. Like, I'll win this fight. You know, maybe that's more what it is. Or else you're not a man or whatever it could mean. Yeah, like it might just be that inherent, like, I'll protect us type feeling. Well, he also said he wouldn't feel right giving the house to another family i mean that's fair and father ron finally suggests calling an exorcist which is like so awkward because bob didn't know the difference between blessing like blessing a house and exorcisms and stuff and thought the entire time all these years

that this is what the priests had been doing oh shit so now he's like wait a minute you're not an exorcist yeah the father ron was like i think it's time to call an exorcist and he was like wait what who are you what have you been doing where'd you come from and so i would be i would i don't know what i would feel but i'd be like what the fuck like this whole time i was not getting the help i thought i was getting um so they have a paranormal team come in first to document what's going on in order to like make a file for an exorcist or make a case for the exorcist okay one member is scratched so hard that their face starts bleeding they also get temperature changes and equipment malfunctioning and they also i don't know what equipment they use for this but

they found a secret room behind the closet at the bottom of the stairs where the tangled chain always was they found a room behind that closet they had to cut through the wall to get to it and all that was in the room was an amber stone a bird skeleton three playing cards and a piece of paper and they also found old legos that the boys lost years ago and there's no way the boys could have put them there. It was there, Legos? What did the paper say, anything? On the paper, there were two drawings. One was of the yard, and another was of two men smoking.

I guess these were like kind of haphazard drawings. Of two men smoking. Do we think like by kids or like by grown-ups, the drawings? Do we know? Just said kind of like really simple drawings. Okay. Okay. The yard, two men smoking.

And one of the men had a pig head and a snake, a snake around his body. And he's laughing at the other man. What the fuck? After the paranormal team leaves, the chief exorcist of New York City is called in. I'm sorry, New York State, even better. And surprisingly, the exorcism happens with no scares, full success. And on February 24th in 2006, the Kramners and

priests do one final mass in the basement where they heard tapping and they saw a faded shadow figure. And the priest said that this thing had to leave and watched it melt into the floor and never return. And in 2015, the

son David, the one who was never affected by the hauntings, he somehow suddenly dies. Bob and Lisa. How old? Well, it was the late 80s when they moved in and he was already around like he was like one to four. So let's say 85, maybe 30. Oh, my God. Oh my God.

He dies suddenly. Bob and Lisa get divorced. And during this time, Bob writes a memoir of the demon of Brownsville Road about their time in the house. Some people do have doubts about the whole story. For example, there actually was a doctor who they figured out lived and rented in both of those houses, but there's no evidence he ever did any illegal procedures.

But also, why would there be? Of course, the evidence would not. Yeah. Bob also allegedly spoke to previous tenants of the house that lived there before he did. One of the women, I guess, wasn't a credible source because she was giving stories about her being haunted there. And then her own kids later were like, none of that's true. Oh, shit. The woman said, oh, my dog used to follow something through the halls.

And the kids were like, she never had a dog. Oh, girl. So either the woman was lying or maybe Bob made this story up for himself. I mean, maybe she was, I don't know. Yeah, or maybe something else, yeah. Yeah. Bob also, it seems, according to his memoir, blamed every problem with his family on the entities and refused to accept that maybe there were more common issues. But a grave was found on the property at the base of the oak tree just like the mystic said and there are prominent members of the catholic church who were in support of bob's

account bob still lives here and converted the house into a an air not airbnb just a bmb in 2019 but he does not welcome investigations and fear of stirring up former activity i mean that's fair i can respect that and that's the demon of brownsville that is a doozy isn't it uh uh yeah i feel like we've covered a lot of very specific very niche paranormal symptoms side effects of the paranormal amniotic fluid as a repeated symbol throughout this story is something i've never heard of that and and when you said the abortion thing it's like boom like holy crap super super freaky oh my gosh that like took my breath away i was startling and i say it every time we do like a like a demon or a good haunting or possession story but like there's so few and

far between because after like 300 almost 50 episodes there's just only so many out there yeah and that was just such a really really good one so anyway round of applause to our researcher and um it was seriously i would have not been able to find that topic without them so that was a that was a really good one yeah i feel like um m has had for a long time kind of a concern about running out of stories just because you know i mean everything is finite um yeah there's only so many demon stories out there with good solid information and while as, I wish I had that concern because it would be great if crime just suddenly stopped and I ran out of stories. Unfortunately, that won't happen.

But I guess in that same vein, there will continue to be stories like The Watcher House or Dear David or UFO stuff. So you might still continue to get quite a few more new breaking stories. Everything with the government right now and the hearings. And I mean, there's always stuff that just for for every one really good congressional hearing about UAPs and UFOs, you get about 300 new cases daily on like something you could cover yeah so the proportionally it is just not fair but no no it's it's uh it's a rough it's a rough go but um but you know i will say on that note would this be helpful to you m if we plug um um our website where you can send in submissions sure because maybe there's a list we can create that'll give you a better like a more comforting i think we do have a we have a

in our own private google docs i think we have a list of requests that come in every now and then i don't think we have like i wish on our website if there was a way to create like some have a form submission and it just immediately falls into a google i think it does is there a way oh no maybe it emails you might be right wait yeah we should set that up megan we have something we have we do have a list somewhere you're right i think the topic suggestion is an email you're right it's think the topic suggestion is an email. You're right. It's like an email the way that the actual listener story emails come in. So maybe there's a way. I mean, I know there's a way that we could just have a form to fill out that would go into an Excel spreadsheet or something like that.

I feel like that might be more helpful so we can sort them. And it wouldn't even necessarily need to be like your name. So because presumably we'd get lots of repeats and then as long as it's like spelled correctly, we could group them together. We'll figure it out. We'll shop it. I feel like that might be a helpful idea to just get one paranormal, one true crime, like suggestion box that goes straight to a document. Okay, so let me see, Em. I've got a doozy for you today, as usual. This is the story of Kelly Cochran,

and this is one of those stories where I really didn't see it coming. Like, I... Didn't see, like, the ending? Yeah ending or yeah it's like plot twist galore yeah we you know we love that on this show i'd love a plot twist so let's get into it christopher reagan was born and raised in detroit michigan and in his early 20s he joined the air force by the time he was in his 50s, he was divorced with two children, and he wound up stationed at K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base in Marquette, Michigan, and that is where he met the lovely Terry O'Donnell. So Terry was a school teacher from

Iron River, Michigan, which was like a small town roughly two hours from Marquette. And Terry described Chris as someone who made people feel special uh she did an interview on snapped um where she told interviewers that Chris would look at you and you'd think that you were the only person in the room he put you I know I know that I feel like M does that though like not to like bring this man's like sort of obituary to to compliment you but i feel like that is something you do like you really do you're good at making people feel like they're um you know the most important person in the room um which i think is a great skill like a great social skill wow okay i didn't know it was compliment m day okay it's true it's not

and that's why this is even more, uh, you know, if it were compliment M day, I could just be, I would say M is really handsome. No. Uh, but, but yeah, I really do feel that way about you. Um, so he would put you up on a pedestal when you were around him. You'd feel like he deeply cared about you. And it was just a lot of one-on-one attention. And Terry and Chris were friends for two years until they decided to enter a romantic relationship. Hey, celery kisses. Celery kisses.

And the only problem was that Chris had moved to Traverse City, Michigan, which was now six hours away. So eventually, Chris, who was now 53, Michigan, which was now six hours away. So eventually, Chris, who was now 53 years old, he was retired from the military. He was like, fuck it. I am moving up to Iron River to be with my gal. So he moved to be with Terry. Iron River was scenic and green, and Chris shared Terry's love for the outdoors. They immediately got on great, spending a lot of time outside, just getting to know each other better now that they were no longer long distance. And in the meantime, he was working to repair his strained and distant relationship with both of his adult sons. So he frequently texted and called them. And he was really hopeful that with Terry, they could kind of rebuild a family unit with his two sons involved as well. In Iron River, Chris worked in a factory. He manufactured parts for naval vessels. And that

is where he met 33-year-old Kelly Cochran, who was also new to town. Chris and Kelly were both newcomers, so they bonded at work. And Kelly had just moved to Iron River with her husband, Jason Cochran. So let's get to Kelly and Jason real quick. They were childhood friends. They grew up as next-door neighbors in Indiana. They dated through high school, you know, high school sweethearts. Got married after graduation. And then as, you know, as the story goes, the America dream started their own swimming pool maintenance business together.

Their friends thought of them as opposites, but opposites who fit together really well. So Kelly was very talkative, whereas Jason was quiet until, you know, someone really engaged with him. But they seemed really content. Their friends felt like they were truly in love. But later, Kelly would tell interviewers a different story. She said, I was trying to do what I thought was the right thing. You go to school, you go to college, you get married. I got bored from getting married. It was OK at the start, but all I did was work. And I can see how that could be hard you enter a relationship as a child essentially yeah and

then by the time you're married and a grown-up you're like man i just kind of did that because i thought i was supposed to right right which is a little bit sad tragically after a decade of intense physical labor in their business jason suffered a pretty bad back injury uh meaning he couldn't do any heavy lifting so his job with like pool maintenance was just over over friends say it was clear he was in a lot of pain and it only got worse uh so with jason now disabled kelly picked up both of their duties. She handled all of the finances, the shopping, cooking, chores, and work to support them. So she was really struggling. Yeah, she's fully like a caregiver now.

Yes, she's a caregiver on top of all the other stuff. So they were struggling to stay afloat. And in February 2014, they decided to move to Iron River to improve their options. to move to Iron River to improve their options. And one of the reasons they moved to Iron River is that they wanted a medical marijuana card for Jason because of his extreme chronic pain. That was my, my, my aunt suffers from incredible, I mean, she's very chronically ill, but back pain is just one of her things going on. And it's, it's very severe. And the whole reason they moved where they did is just to have a medical marijuana thing i mean in kentucky it's such a game changer such a game changer medical

marijuana was passed this year but we won't get it till 2025 in kentucky but like people in kentucky who were you know it's horrible because there's like an opiate opiate crisis for pain, like, especially because it always often starts with pain management and it's like, yeah, okay. But then you won't let us legalize weed and give people an option for a safer, healthier, milder way to treat pain. I mean, it's just so backwards, but whatever. Um, so they So they moved to Michigan to get a medical marijuana card for his chronic pain. And Kelly also needed a job that would pay better. So in Iron City, she took multiple jobs, one of which was at the factory with Christopher Reagan. So like Kelly, Chris was talkative and outgoing, and they really hit it off.

Chris's girlfriend, Terry, immediately started struggling with their friendship. She said that while planning a family trip to Europe, Chris said he was going to meet up with another woman and like kind of broaden his options while she was in Europe. Oh, like very directly said, I'm going to someone yeah and terry said oh why and he's like because you're going to europe and she's like i'm only going for like a few weeks and he said well i don't want to be lonely or bored while you're gone oh so terry was like don't love that and ended their two- relationship in April of 2014. Right, right, right, right, right. OK, girl.

And, you know, Chris moved out, but she came back from her trip because it was only a couple of weeks. It wasn't like she was leaving for the year. And she came back and they actually remained friends and they still hung out. But like the romance aspect of it was out the window. So meanwhile, Chris was applying to new jobs around the country uh he was thinking he wanted to move and start a fresh uh career start a fresh life so on october 10th of 2014 he called terry and told her about a job offer he had received in ashville north carolina and he was very excited about living in the blue ridge mountains he was a very outdoorsy guy,

as I said, and so there was a lot for him there. And more importantly, he'd be closer to one of his sons, Chris Reagan Jr., who was excited to spend more time with his dad because they'd been kind of working on repairing their relationship. And so they were going to kind of come back together and hopefully forge a new father-son bond, which I think is really sweet. Yeah. So on the 14th, he texted Terry that he was taking the next day off the 15th for an appointment. He was getting drug screening done for his new job. And that text came in at 6 a.m.

So the next day, Terry didn't hear from him after the appointment. And her friends were like, oh, don't worry. You know, you'll hear from him after the appointment and her friends were like oh don't worry um you know you'll hear from him eventually but terry immediately knew something wasn't right because even though they had broken up they were very close friends and it was very unusual for him not to respond to her texts this is just not his normal behavior and so she did consider okay well now that he's dating all these women maybe he had had someone with him and didn't want to be texting Terry while the other woman was with him. So she thought, OK, fine, I'll give him some time and distance.

But 10 days went by and despite repeated texts, Terry did not hear back from Chris. So she filed a missing persons report at first investigators weren't immediately alarmed because they heard about the ashville job and they thought oh maybe he just left early for ashville and didn't tell anyone maybe he just wanted to get out of here but when they contacted his new workplace his supervisors had not heard from him and were like when is he coming where is he uh he's supposed to be starting his job soon um and the next thought was well maybe he went for a hike in iron river and got injured and if he's been gone 10 days he's probably either in bad shape or dead out in the wilderness he had the really bad back issues right yes he had very

bad yes he had oh wait no that was that was the other guy sorry that was um i know it's it's very confusing i'm sorry but uh kelly cochran who is chris's co-worker um at the factory her husband has really bad they're the ones who own the pool business. And he has really bad back issues. But Chris and I forgot to warn you about the gargoyles. But you don't have them here. Oh, no. I'm just trying to do mental gymnastics over here. Okay.

So then Chris is with Terry. Jason and Kelly. Kelly works with Chris. Chris is with Terry. Well, was with Terry. And now they're broken up. Jason and Kelly. Chrisris yes exactly chris terry and now they're just friends sorry i know everyone else is probably like we already did this m but no no no no it's good to no it's good to clarify i feel like i listen to podcasts sometimes and i'm like she did what and

then i rewind and i'm like oh wait no they said kelly not it can be hard. So don't don't worry. I think you're probably helping helping people understand. So now they're thinking, oh, well, maybe he's injured. Maybe he's out there somewhere. And it was, you know, an area that was not uncommon for hikers to get lost or injured and need help. So the Michigan State Police got involved in the search. They brought canine units into the woods, but didn't turn anything up. And unfortunately, an early winter came that year. So the search got interrupted by snow and that also covered tracks and made any trails Chris potentially left nearly impossible to follow. So they're kind of stranded now meanwhile investigators visited chris's apartment

with terry his kind of girl but his close friend former girlfriend his friend slash x yeah exactly terry told them that chris was an extremely organized person she had lived with him long enough to know that like he liked to keep a clean space but his apartment when they entered was a disaster every cabinet was open items and papers were tossed around the floor was cluttered there was just shit everywhere and terry was like no no no no like this is not how he would leave his apartment especially if you were moving out yeah it also sounds like someone ransacked the house it sounds like so that's what she thought she thought somebody thought somebody had robbed him. She's like, there's no way this is something he did.

Like, he must have been robbed. Exactly. Then they found Chris's car parked five miles out of Iron River at a park and ride lot. When they looked inside the vehicle, they noticed a post-it note in the passenger seat. And on this postage note was a set of directions. Bye. We are going on a trip, girl. Let's get going.

If you and I saw that, we'd be like, call my Uber now. I know. Come to Kentucky. We're going on a scavenger hunt. It's giving random nautica. I know. It feels like it. It really does like

cryptic notes you know with with coordinates i'd be like well obviously we're getting in the car right now let's go okay so it gets weirder because on the direction on the poster with directions there was no address and so it was just directions but you know you don't know at the end like where he's going so terry said uh you know this is pretty normal for him chris didn't know his way around iron river so he wrote directions for himself like turn left at the library you know he kind of scrawled out directions on post his own his own handmade map quest yes literally his own handwritten math quiz and uh post you tried it's okay i didn't even try that's the saddest part i didn't even try um so detectives followed detectives followed the directions to

an old house in a mining community called old caspian so they're like okay so we follow the directions like third i don't know I don't know. I don't know the specifics, but it's like turn here, turn here. And it'll be like third house on the right. Okay. So they're doing the scavenger hunt, the Randonautica. They arrive at this address. They're like, where are we? They ring the doorbell. It's the home of Kelly and Jason Cochran. the doorbell it's the home of kelly and jason cochran oh so right now we think he's sleeping with her yes okay yes that is the immediate yes that is the immediate oh shit so jason cochran opened the door first and they asked uh is kelly cochran home and he said no i don't know where she is oh and okay so now they're

both missing great and then she disappeared behind him in the doorway was that like a weird joke he made no the investigator actually said this is very pretty common like if a spouse opens a door and police are asking for them their instinct is to say like no they're not here why can i can i help you with something like cover for them yeah or to at least just like get the information before serving their spouse up on a platter like yeah here they are um no allison would have absolutely relinquished me to the police with no questions you'd be in in the in this closet recording and allison would be like knock knock oh here they are. Police come on in. Allison would give them a list of my favorite treats to entice me into the

police car. Yeah. And all the wrongdoings you've done against her, just in case they wanted to arrest you on those charges too. Your many wrongdoings. She'd be like, and while you're at it, M's called me a stinky witch for six years.

Do something about that. It's about time they get behind bars. Oh, boy. So Kelly was friendly. An investigator said she wasn't nervous at all. She seemed genuinely concerned, like she wanted to be helpful. She introduced herself as Chris's coworker and then said she last spoke with him on the 14th or 15th just like terry had uh she had sent him some texts and never heard from him so she assumed he moved to north carolina without

saying goodbye she told investigators that she had absolutely no idea why chris would have directions to her house in his car um and she just seemed genuinely so perplexed that they were like, OK. She said she would contact them if she heard anything from Chris. But investigators were a little bit suspicious, not about her, but about Jason's behavior, because he was really standoffish. He seemed like he did not want to be a part of this. He had nothing to say. So they just kind of left it. He had nothing to say. So they just kind of left it.

And meanwhile, at the factory, Chris's and Kelly's co-workers told investigators that it was very unusual for Chris to miss work because he was so reliable, punctual. So they were pretty concerned when he failed to show up. And they knew, as well as Terry did, that something had to be very wrong. They also added, hey, we're pretty sure that he and Kelly Cochran have been having an affair so just an FYI uh so investigators were like cool cool cool let's bring those two in for questioning so they bring Jason and Kelly in and they start talking to Kelly and she pretty immediately fesses up to the affair. She says they would meet at Chris's apartment several times a week. And when they asked about whether her husband knew, she said, oh, yeah, Jason's totally OK with the affair, which we often know is a big fat lie. Does it say are they poly or something like in which case is it an affair?

Absolutely not. In the 2020 special, you can literally see them interviewing Jason and former police chief Laura Frizzo, who I love. She just is like she's just so like, I don't know, bright and quick. And like, I think the first female police chief in the area ever. So, like, it's just cool to, like, see her story. But anyway, she told interviewers what i came to learn about this marriage was that it had been in trouble for a while kelly was living a life of a single person and that's because when they interviewed jason you can see the footage jason was angry and jealous about kelly's affair and he is telling them in no way is he okay with their okay okay so

why did she think she would get away i don't know i'm like such a bold face like i don't care if i get caught like you're about to get found out why would you put yourself in this predicament like why not just say no he's not okay with it i don't know right i'm having an affair you do the math he's not down yeah you don't have to like insist that he's OK with it. He's about to tell them he's not. So I thought that was odd. So police at this point are beginning to suspect that Jason might have had something to do with Chris's disappearance. He's jealous. He's, you know, like he's admitted he's jealous of this relationship. But of course, they have no evidence to hold him. So they have to let him go. And five months pass by. During this five month period,

rumors are swirling. People are talking, obviously, but really nothing new came out until March 5th of 2015. That's when a new district attorney convinced a judge to grant a search warrant for the Cochran house. So now we're getting into the actual Jason and Kelly's house to look for evidence. So the next day, police entered the home, but they failed to find any evidence connecting Chris to their home at all. However, they did not go home empty handed. They did happen to find a little something. And that little something was a rough draft of a book Jason was writing. Uh oh.

Uh oh. The book was written under his online gaming out alias oh my god tell me what it is please tell me what it is can you take a guess it's i mean you're not gonna guess it oh i don't know is it is it is it boring it's stupid is it like something 69 or something i would have done i'm always crazy 444 i mean basically his alias was quack quack okay and the story guess what the story is called bark bark woof woof what it was actually a children's flap open old mcdonald's had a farm but um the story was called quack quack's revenge oh my god okay maybe we'll shop the title yeah

well maybe uh i don't think i want to be part of it, but you can. So revenge is in like it's implying that he already knew about the affair and is now going to kill the two of them. Well, sort of. He definitely did know about the affair. He had admitted like he knew about it. He just had to say set the record straight that he wasn't happy about it. So he had known about the affair. It wasn't a shock to him, but he was not happy about it so he had known about the affair wasn't a shock to him but he was not happy about it so yet when quack quack's revenge surfaced i know it's like oh bud like what are you doing um how old is this man in his like 50s i don't know quack quack would have been hysterical as like a neopet when i was 12 i feel like that probably was taken and it would have to be like quack quack 60 532 because everyone wanted to name their like it's such a perfect neopet name i feel like it would have been but it wouldn't it would have been any animal but a duck that would have been the

humor of course not and then you would have had to get a duck and named it like woof woof moo moo you know one of the cow ones it is quack yeah exactly um you get it um did you know neopets is having like a resurgence no oh my god i just found this out because i hacked and i didn't hack in well i did hack into my old account um and i was like holy shit and i joined this was the saddest part ever alexander and i both looked up like a member since and it said september 12 2001 oh and we were like clearly we needed an outlet what was the one that i was a part i didn't do neopets was it it wasn't webkins which i thought was an excellent business penguin club penguin oh my god i love i never did club penguin i did we should get let's get club penguin accounts and twitch stream it together oh well let's get neopets because that's the one i'm really good at

i mean when a cow shows up named quack quack i hope you friend accept me we're gonna friend accept each other yeah let's all you guys can we all be neopets friends everybody that'd be so fun if there's an and that's why i drink neopets discord i'm sure it can be set up fuck yes okay seriously folks hang on we're gonna do it if people are interested how easy is it to neopets how easy is it to what why so just to just you can just join oh god i have like 85 accounts yeah you can join anytime i'm totally getting one today wow what a waste of my time i'm so excited it's the best my oh by my handle by the way if anyone is looking is tootsie 208 um so but quack quack was crazy listen i was what 10 9 11 10 what was

it going through 9 11 tootsie 208 i'm sorry did you just say i was going through 9-11. Tootsie 208. I'm sorry, did you just say I was going through 9-11? Yes. I was going through 9-12 that day. And I feel like it's okay that I wanted to escape with a little online gaming. So if we ask the star of the story that you're telling why he called it Quack Quack, why he called his username Quack Quack. Can he get away with saying, oh, I was just going through 9-11? Wait a second. He was on Club Penguin

and he wasn't quite sure what noise penguins make. I've never ever heard someone... I've never in my life heard someone say that they were going through 9-11 as an excuse for why their neopets name is tootsie quack quack you just came up with a whole new a whole new rationale i'm gonna try that on my therapist later and see what she says oh i was going through okay you know what i mean i was going through the collective trauma that the entire nation was feeling and i was 10 okay i wasn't saying i was going through

9-11 like i was personally affected i just meant you know i was struggling with understanding it sounds like going on so the only other person i've ever known to use that excuse is ryan from the office so embarrassing it's like i had never fully recovered from 9-11 me neither no uh i know i know but i mean i i'm sweating but that was the funniest that was this is the most i've never like of all the things i would have expected to come out of your mouth that was not it i'm so sorry i didn't mean it like that well hey now i have a whole new incredibly fucked up inside joke for my arsenal. I needed one.

Thank you. By the way, I just won 5,000 Neo points on a Terror Trove scratch card. So I feel like you and I are going to have a blast. What the hell does that mean? I can tell you all the fun. I learned how to gamble for sure on Neopets. I learned all my gambling techniques on Neopets. You were gambling at 10? Were you still processing 9-11?

Well, obviously, I think I've made that abundantly clear. Okay. Okay. Let's get back to the story. Let me find the other tab that's not Neopets. Okay. So Quack Quack's Revenge. Let's get back to that, which is one of the wildest things I've ever heard. Here we go. So in Quack Quack's Revenge, this is the story, right? He goes on a vent. Oh, by the way, it's handwritten, which makes it so much creepier.

Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. He goes on a vengeful killing spree. And one of his victims in the story is named Chris. Well, that's a that's a humdinger right there. There it is. So on March 25th, investigators returned to the Cochran's, but the couple was gone. They had actually just packed up all of their belongings.

And peaced out. They literally ran. They left ran. Damn. They left town. And I believe that the actual way they found out was that a neighbor called the police chief and said, like, hey, I just watched them pack up their car and, like, leave for good. And they were like, shit. So.

God damn it. God damn it. So they packed up all their belongings and move and moved away now at first uh they couldn't figure out where they could have been but suddenly the police chief hears from two private investigators who say oh the cochrans yeah don't worry we placed a gps tracker on their car last week oh thank god okay and the police are like oh hell yeah nice work yeah so they were like oh we were also looking into those guys so we know exactly where they are uh turns out they had driven back to indiana and uh you know i guess we we're trying to hide out. So Iron River police

got in touch with Indiana authorities who got a DNA warrant and they took DNA samples from Kelly and Jason, but the trail went cold. Unfortunately, the Cochran's were the only lead and there was no evidence to support investigator suspicions that they had done it except this creepy book so it was sort of like well shit like what else do we have to go on right so they just had to wait then the cochran's neighbors speak up and they say to police hey we have a weird little like fun fact for you um back in october of 2014 kelly and jason burning something in their backyard, kind of like secretly, and it smelled pretty putrid. Meanwhile, in a nearby body of water called the Caspian Pit, divers found a burn barrel tied to a cement block to weigh it down. Damn, that's suspicious.

Yeah, not suspicious at all um but unfortunately the barrel had kind of disintegrated come apart and there was nothing inside the barrel very frustrating then fast forward to february 2016 the the police are kind of sitting there going shit well like what do we need to to pin this on them now they're out of the state like they basically evaded justice we don't know how to get back on their trail okay don't worry kelly did that for them oh thanks kel thanks kel kelly calls indiana police in february of 2016 in complete hysterics oh she says her husband jason wasn't breathing and they needed to come right away so paramedics found jason warm sweaty and sitting up kelly kept trying to

interfere with paramedics to the point that they like notated they made a note of how in their space she was like she wouldn't let them do their work she kept trying to get her hands in and you know mess around with what they were doing so i wonder what the i wonder what the professional way to write that down in a log is of like don't let her get near us get her out of my grill dude i don't know yeah yeah so she they actually had to move Jason outside to the ambulance to finish evaluating him because she was so in their face. And they found a needle where he had been laying and considered maybe he was using heroin because he had such chronic pain. But the death also didn't appear to be an overdose. So they were a little confused about what could be going on. And so Kelly thought, okay, well, I know I'll notify Jason's best friend that he has passed away. So Jason's best friend,

Walter, gets a message about Jason's death. Kelly said, your friend has passed away and walter was like this is getting real fishy it was also right around the time he saw a missing persons poster for a guy in the town that he knew jason and kelly lived so he's like something very weird is going on and his gut was like this isn't good so he contacts police and he says there is no way jason was using heroin like he's my best friend i promise you that is not what happened um walter also knew that jason and kelly had moved back to indiana um they had actually jason had actually told him oh by the way we're suspects in a missing persons case. That's why we moved from Michigan to Indiana. And so he was like, OK, so this is getting really fucking shady.

But he told police when they came home to Indiana, Jason really struggled. He spent some time in the hospital for depression and a possible suicide attempt. And after that, Kelly began isolating Jason. OK, so he only had a few friends. After that, Kelly began isolating Jason. Oh, okay. So he only had a few friends. He really struggled to go places by himself because of his disability. And Kelly made it increasingly difficult for him to reach out to people, to go anywhere. He was basically stuck at home.

And anytime he was even playing a game with his friends online, the second Kelly got home, he'd be like, sorry, I got to go. Got to shut it off. Can't be playing my game with his friends online the second kelly got home he'd be like sorry i gotta go gotta shut it off can't be playing my game oh he was like very on eggshells around her about yes he was like under her thumb yeah so the medical examiner released his autopsy at the end of february and that is when it was revealed that although there was a large amount of drugs in his system, his actual cause of death was strangulation. And he also had a bad back, so he couldn't even escape if he wanted to. Horrible. So Kelly was now the suspect in Jason's murder and Chris's disappearance. On February 21st, investigators brought Kelly in for questioning

on Jason's death, but she basically gave them nothing. So detectives were like, you know what, Walter, buddy, hey, you know how much how close we are as the police and you are buddy Walter. Well, we have some undercover work for you to do. We have some secret plot plot this is like my dream that someone's like i need you to be like the go-between like i need you to get the intel you know what i mean i do know what you mean and you'd be very good at it but he understandably did not want to do it uh baby and i get it i feel like in this scenario I wouldn't want to do it either. They basically told him he had to call Kelly and lie to her face about something. And they were easy for me. They were check next. Okay. What's the hard part? I'm confused. He was like, I felt really guilty i was like okay um so detectives involved walter on march 12th walter called kelly on a line that of course police were recording he told her a fabricated story that back in february

before jason died he had mailed walter a letter so basically he tells kelly hey i don't know how else to tell you this but it's just kind of creeping me out. I received a letter from Jason before he died saying if something were to happen to me, forward this note to the Iron River police. Oh. And so Walter said there is a stamp on this letter. It's in a sealed envelope. And Walter said there is a stamp on this letter. It's in a sealed envelope. The the Iron River police are the address is written on the envelope with no return address. And in this letter, keep in mind, but he is telling Kelly this, she falls for a hook,

line and sinker because he says to her, it looks like I'm supposed to mail this. And she goes, please don't. Love it. Shady. Walter said in that moment, he knew Kelly and Jason had been guilty of Chris's disappearance. And he remembers thinking,

I don't know where chris is but i'm sure he's dead yeah he was like the second she said that i was like shit yeah he's gone he's gone both walter and kelly's friend jennifer were worried kelly might hurt them next which is pretty wild because like your friend or your friend's spouse is now a murderer potentially and also you're kind of involved now so walter's like shit i could be the next target i'm the one who said i would send this letter to the police like she might come after me oh and that's such a that's such a fair fear valid. I walked myself right into fire trying to be helpful. But now I'm like, I have a target on my back. And to be fair, like he was kind of pushed into it by the police.

It wasn't necessarily even walking like he was kind of dragged in. So police put pressure on Kelly to confess. And bizarrely, after one detective noticed that Kelly frequently went to the park to sit under a tree this detective was like i have a new angle and i'm gonna really uh get her good and everyone was like okay just wait till you hear what it is then he was like i think this will do the trick and everyone was like yo i don't know we don't want to be part of this. This is what he did. So he had been, this detective had been following her for a while to just keep an eye on what she did day to day. He noticed she went to the park to sit under a tree. And apparently she would go there and just, I don't know, stare out at the specific tree.

So one day after she left, he went and carved the words, Chris is here, into the tree. What? Okay. His goal was to make Kelly think Chris was haunting her. Girl. Please. That is. That was the best plan they had.

Didn't anyone else go like, maybe there's probably something else. They were like, what the fuck plan they had? Didn't anyone else go like, hmm, maybe there's probably something else. They were like, what the fuck are you doing? Did it work? Okay, let me tell you what happened. So the detective said, Kelly, the next time she went to the tree, he's watching it, of course, like, what's going to happen? Kelly looked at the tree, ran, ran from the park, and sped off in her vehicle and that night she contacted him and admitted that her husband jason had murdered chris in a jealous rage and she was a victim of his controlling abuse it literally worked i i that feels like the first draft of a book that needs a lot of editing.

A lot of work. That feels so unrealistic. That almost makes me think that we're trying too hard with every other sting operation we've ever done. If it's that easy. If we can just convince someone they're being haunted by the person that... Actually, that's not a bad book idea. Write that down. TM, TM, TM.

Also, being haunted... That's not even like you wake up and there's chairs in the middle of your house that would have actually been kind of cool if they were like we're gonna break into her house when she's like taking a shower and like fuck with all that is cool and let's break up into her break into her house while she's in the shower the police i feel like if you're doing a sting operation well i feel like that would be at least like a creepy or haunting but like a random carving in a tree so apparently the way this was described was that uh like in more detail this particular detective had kind of done his own

undercover work to an extent i was not quite undercover but he would meet with her regularly and tried to gain her trust so it got to the point where like she was like confiding him in and he was saying oh man i'm totally on your side like she thought this detective was like her friend you know and then he really wanted her to trust him but she would go to this place in the park she did not think anyone knew that she was going here right so she would do this just kind of habitually but like nobody knew that she had this secret little clearing she would sit in except this one detective but even like the possible like for me to even the the probability that someone's gonna look at the right tree at the right angle and actually take time to read the carvings and like there's so many ways that that would have been such a long game of waiting

i know i wonder so he said it was one very particular tree that she sat at so i'm like i wonder if this bench was next to a tree and she could see the tree right from the bench how big do you make the carving before it's too obvious you know like but it has to be big enough that she notices yeah so i'm gonna write chris was here uh police tree and see what happens uh wow that did not work uh which is wow because you would think how many crisp was your police trees are there you would think for the amount of people who are into like morbid tourism that tree would be getting a lot of play right now you know like there'd be pictures people would be taking pictures with the tree i mean i can't even find a photo that's wild

i i'm still we're not even taking enough time to that that plan was the worst plan to actually go right i mean it's really shocking that it worked i'll agree with you there i'm i'm amazed that yeah that that blew my mind yeah and uh i thought that's looney tunes and now she's gonna think somebody knows where she goes and hangs out but apparently she believed it and she came running out of the woods. So she sped off in her vehicle. Then she called the guy, the detective, who wrote it and said, didn't say anything about the tree, but basically said, you know what? I have to fess something up to you. My husband did this, and he's an abuser to me.

And so that was at least a break in the case. Of course, detectives didn't think this was the whole story. Before they could bring Kelly in for more questioning, she skipped town again and went on the run. So on April 26, 2016, Kelly texted one of the detectives, this same guy guy she's playing like the way they described it was like a cat and mouse game like i mean it is a cat and mouse game he's writing secret notes in trees she's falling for it she's giving him like half the truth truth they're meeting for pie at the diner and like she's trusting him but really. So she goes on the run. No one knows where she is. And then this same detective that they're having this kind of cat and mouse thing receives a text from Kelly.

Oh, God. And the text reads, the West Coast looks beautiful this morning. So she's, like, telling him where she is. That's so eerie. It's weird. Like, he's not on your side girl it is she and she really believes that he's on her side no i think she just thinks like oh this is a fun little cat mouse game it also feels like is she flirting with him or something it felt a little flirty it felt a little flirty and i think they did insinuate that it was kind of a flirtatious relationship. Like maybe he was her next target or something.

Yeah. Like I think she thought she could kind of flirt him into her circle, into her corner. Huh. Okay. So. Wow. So talk about a confidence to just like think you can get away with that. That's ballsy.

So she says the West Coast looks beautiful this time of year this morning um so now they know where at least in general where she is and you know her behavior this whole investigation has been disturbing to put it lightly uh she seemed to lack any sort of guilt or empathy whatsoever um it was like this was all a big game and she kind of was like had a thrill about sending texts and like giving little clues it feels really all of it has some sort of air of like immaturity to it of like i mean truly seeing like a carving in a tree and immediately feeling just like like you have to fess up it feels like a movie like it's like a little too yeah and then like i don't know it just all feels like you should at least know if you're gonna commit multiple murders you know maybe hide it i don't know it just seems like

she like she's like really naive she's being naive she's being completely naive that's a good way to put it like she really thinks that she can just like give little clues and they won't come back to bite her in the ass. Like, come on. Yeah. Yeah. So after a nationwide search, they eventually found Kelly and she had actually been arrested at her cousin's house in Wingo, Kentucky. And police from Michigan and Indiana both drove down to question her. She told investigators that she and Chris planned to run away together, but that Jason had discovered their affair and was jealous and became violent and killed Chris. She said on October 13, 2014, the couple got into an argument about Chris, and Jason brought up a pact they had made on their wedding night are you ready for the pact

literally i cannot wait so she tells police well our pact on our wedding night was that if one of us cheats they would have we the cheater would have to kill the partner they cheated on what that feels like a like a pact like a not like this That feels like a pact. Not like a silly, funny joke, but it feels like something that someone maybe said off the cuff or something as a not serious thing,

but then she really took it seriously. I don't know. That feels really weird, taken out of context or something. Yeah, so it goes on because apparently jason allegedly told kelly that if she didn't stay true to their pact and kill chris oh shit he would so that was part of the pact as well it was you have to kill the person you cheated with or

the other person will then do it if you're not going to do it i can't i can't i can't imagine making a promise that intense like thinking well that will never first of all i can't imagine making that promise but then even if i did i'd be like well that's never gonna happen so why would i even have to worry about that and then all of a sudden being put in that situation it's like well i take that back it was just it was just my words. So just for some clarity, this woman lies nonstop. So I don't think this is even true. I'm pretty sure she just made this up because then when they kind of push back like that is pretty outlandish and wild.

She was like, I know I thought it was a joke, but he took it way too seriously. And I'm like girl did you just make this up like this doesn't make i don't know whether it was made up or not but uh that is what she insisted happened um so kelly this is her story she said she invited chris over for dinner and sex she said they were actually having sex at the top of the basement stairs when jason came up the stairs and shot chris in the back of the head then he used a saw in the basement oh by the way when they like asked her about this in the trial she was like oh yes we were still having sex as we fell down the stairs it's like ew what the actual fuck is going on also if you're coming so wait

so they're doing it up at the top of the stairs jason shows up on the stairs so they did they're not even hiding that they're having the affair because if you heard someone walk in wouldn't you be like oh we have to stop having sex but you literally let him get to the stairs i actually thought it was the other way i've seen multiple sources some say he was on the basement stairs going up some say he came into the house saw them at the top of the stairs shot him in the head and they went tumbling down the stairs so god i mean it's probably not what happened so okay let's just say like we don't have to give it too much credence um but that is the story she told she said then jason used a saw in the basement to dismember chris and then they scattered chris's body in the woods and uh kelly said that while she was hiding ch's remains, she was planning Jason's death because he had murdered her one true love.

She said Chris had been the only good thing in her life. And now she resented Jason for taking that away, even though she was also involved and was like hiding his body. So in February 2016, Jason had been struggling with this worsening back pain and Kelly told him she'd get a drug to ease his pain. She found for him some heroin and gave him a lethal dose. But Jason didn't die as fast enough as Kelly thought he would. So she told police he was still conscious when she strangled him to death. In April 2016, Kelly was charged with both murders. In April 2016, Kelly was charged with both murders.

Chris's ex-girlfriend, Terry, the one we heard about up top, who like he had moved to town for her and they had that long distance relationship. She was absolutely horrified by the details of the case. She said she always suspected they had hurt Chris in the woods and left him there to die. But she never suspected suspected how depraved this murder actually was. On May 18th, 2016, police set out again with canine units to find Chris's remains after Kelly gave them a tip on where they could be. They only found Chris's skull and a few other bone fragments. But there was a bullet hole in the skull. So it could be it could be. It could be.

The problem is, like, now that Jason is dead, we don't hear his side. Like, it could have been Kelly who killed him. I don't know. But Jason also had that book about revenge. So, I mean, for all I know, he could have done exactly what she said and shot him at the top of the stairs. I'm not sure. Kelly also surrendered a pair of forceps, which she said and shot him at the top of the stairs i'm not sure um kelly also

surrendered a pair of forceps which she said she and jason used to remove the bullet from chris's skull and when they tested the forceps they tested positive for chris's blood so it is possible that that's how it went in a 2018 documentary on the case called dead north former police chief laura frizzo who i was mentioning earlier was reenacting the discovery of chris's skull and like showing the video crew where it had been found when they actually discovered chris's jawbone they hadn't found it in the previous searches so and it was where where his skull was originally found she just brought them out to the site to say like, this is where we found his skull. And one of the crew members found.

Like tripped on it? Yeah. Like basically stumbled upon. Oh my God. Chris's jawbone, which must've just been so, I don't know, jarring.

That feels more like, like a haunted activity than the tree carving. It's like, Oh, here's my mouth. Spooky, right? So Kelly refused several plea deals and went to trial for murder,

lying to a police officer and mutilating a dead body. She did take the stand during the trial, and she told the defense team that her initial confession wasn't exactly right. She said that actually Jason violently abused her during their marriage and she had invited Chris over the night he was killed, but she didn't know Jason was home. So Jason snuck up on them while they were having sex and shot Chris. Jason told Kelly he would kill her too if she didn't help him dismember Chris. And that was the only reason she had participated in the dismembering of Chris. The jury didn't buy her story. Many people had long believed that Kelly was actually the controlling abusive party in her

marriage to Jason, as we could tell by the way that she controlled when he left the house, what he did, how many friends he was allowed to have, his usage i mean classic abusive behavior classic controlling manipulative behavior so on february 28th do you say nice yeah nice on february 28th 2017 the jury found kelly guilty on all accounts including first degree premeditated murder after only three hours of deliberation oh Oh, she, yeah, they were like, we don't believe you for a second,

especially with all the lies. Like, come on. Especially when like Jason was already dead. You could have come up with this story of he was abusing you and now you're free to say your piece. And right now it's suddenly like, oh,

I forgot to tell everybody. It's like, well, yeah, yeah. It's kind of late for that. So she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. She was then sent to Indiana to be tried for Jason's murder because this one was just about Chris.

So instead, she entered a plea deal and pled guilty to Jason's murder and was sentenced to 65 years in prison for the crime so in the dead north documentary kelly's own brother claimed kelly and jason could be responsible for even more unsolved murders oh interesting so that the two of them as a couple were very toxic and violent um but there's no evidence currently backing that claim so but the fact that it's kelly's brother saying like hey i think they've done more like that's damning that's damning right yeah so in an interview with 2020 reporters kelly told another version of her story where actually now she says she was tied up while jason forced her to watch him kill and dismember chris so oh god we don't i mean she just made that up in prison and told them like right i have a feeling we've never

actually heard the truth that's exactly it like that's why i'm like don't like hold you know don't give too much weight to any of these because we don't really know what happened except that in some way she was responsible so uh laura frizzo said quote this is the first i'm hearing of her ever saying she was tied up this is a game and she's going to continue this game as long as she can and that is the story of kelly cochran wow her lunacy i was gonna say yeah great word ups and downs and twists and turns i'm telling you rights plot twist galore you know what i mean quack quack approved apparently i don't know quack quack inspired i guess yeah the story okay there was like a note about oh shit i meant to write what like quack quack there was a note about like what quack quack's revenge like a line from it it is balloon balloonatoons

like it is next level noodles all the way to the top um oh i know i need to find maybe we can do like a a separate reading on patreon yeah um well hey speaking of patreon we're gonna go over there and chit chat and i have a littleFeed quiz I want your responses to. Is it a spooky? It's a spooky one. I got some spooky news to share with you. Yeah. Here's the thing just to give everyone.

So we did after chats for a while. We felt like they weren't really picking up because I think it was just like us randomly rambling. really pick it up because I think it was just like us randomly rambling. Um, we are now creating more structured episodes for Patreon that are, um, typically like true crime or paranormal related. Um, they have more of like a theme and a topic and actually patrons can submit topic ideas. Um, and they go into a list that we can kind of pick and choose from. Um, for example, like I might cover some case updates on stories that I've covered in the past. Like, you know, if people are finally apprehended, brought to justice, we might cover paranormal cases that M hasn't been able to cover because they're too small,

you know, or we might go over a BuzzFeed listicle or quiz or I don't know, but we're trying to keep it more structured. Go through some topical news, top topical news things yeah and so we're hoping um people are more into that um because it's you know on brand it's just an extension of the episodes themselves so if you're interested um you can go to patreon.com slash at what is it wwd is it hold on patreonW.D. Is it? Hold on. Patreon dot com slash A.T. W.W.D. Podcast. That's the one. And check us out there.

We have a lot of fun stuff. And yeah, we're excited. Oh, Christine, that was a bit of a longer one, but I don't even care. That was those are some good stories. Man, we nailed it. I hope. And that's why we drink.