And That's Why We Drink - E342 A Soft Launched Haunting and a Paranormal Rat King

Episode Date: August 27, 2023

It's episode 342 and may we ask why you drink? May we also suggest you indulge in some H2O? This week Em is taking us to Lake County, Ohio for the very creepy tale of the Madison Seminary. Then Christine brings us the extremely wild case of Lori Arnold aka the Queen of Meth. And the next time you hear a spooky noise in your house, remember, it could just be a sneaky time traveling version of yourself! ...and that's why we drink!Don't forget to check out our spooky back to school merch! atwwdmerch.com

hi well welcome to and that's why we drink where we talk and you listen and you're maybe driving or cleaning or walking you or doing the dishes you show off you but whatever you're doing i know one thing we're all not doing right now and that's hydrating so drink right now take a drink quick quick quick quick quick quick i have zero beverages for the once in my life we're the. We're the worst icons of a show called And That's Why We Drink. Yeah, you should take our advice for sure. Yeah. Please indulge in some H2O at the very least. What are you, if you could drink anything right now, Christine, what's your little taste buds screaming for?

Listen, I just finished my coffee. It's another early morning for us, Em. It's another 10 a.m. start. By the way, I'm the one that usually has to wake up at 10 a.m. This is a new thing for Christine. I'm like, what is my life? It's really nice though, isn't it? Because after you record, you get the whole second half of the day. It's actually incredible. Are you down to wake up at 7 a.m. in California? No. No. Because I actually way prefer this situation. Usually when I'm done, I haven't eaten breakfast or lunch and it's 4.30 p.m.

That I believe. Yeah, miserable. But yeah, no, this is nice. Yeah, miserable. But yeah, no, this is nice. I actually meant to bring up a reason because we recorded yesterday why the speakeasy I was at um and it was so nice and I just want to brag on my my boy for a minute because he did such a good job in his jiu-jitsu tournament oh I didn't know that's why you guys went yeah so it was like kind of he didn't like really tell anybody like he told me but like he didn't even tell his family or anything I think he just wanted to keep it on the deal because it was his first tournament um and so we went down there and i was like trying to be helpful but there's like a whole gym full of people and i didn't

know what anyone was doing i've never watched jujitsu wouldn't you be so helpful in a gym christine i can't imagine you more helpful anywhere. Thank you, Emma. It's so kind of you. Yeah, you're right. The person who doesn't even have water available in like a hundred yard radius is helpful in a gym. I brought, I went with him there and I was, it was, it was, I've never seen jujitsu. He's been doing jujitsu for like on and off for years and he's been training really hard like twice a day he goes to the gym for like two hours each and trains i've i had no idea what he was doing does that no no i know that he does that i just i just thought he was having an affair no i'm kidding um i i knew he was doing jujitsu but like I didn't really know what that, like, I don't know.

I've never really watched it. And it never occurred to me until I'm in the gym and everyone's like. And all of a sudden he's in this, like, on this mat. And they're like, there's a referee. And they're kind of like, go. And they are suddenly, like, wrestling each other and, like, holding each other's necks. And then the first match we watch, this guy passes out. And I'm like, oh, no. And Blaze goes, oh, we watched this guy passes out and i'm like oh no

and blaze goes oh no that's normal and i'm like what do you mean like he lost blood to his brain like he lost consciousness blaze like yeah just temporarily and i'm like i don't know if i can do this i was more nervous than he was watching this happen um and he did a really good job and uh it was really fun and then that night finally i got to buy him a cocktail because he hasn't been drinking alcohol in many many weeks because he's been training um so anyway i just we had a great time and um you know oh apparently i've been meaning to bring this up for like a year m we once talked about jujitsu because we talked about like uh self defense and i said something like oh about the the gracie gym and you were like oh

gracie who's gracie and i was like i don't know she like i'm so proud of her okay apparently gracie is the last name of like the biggest jujitsu family um in the world and so all the like gracie affiliated gyms are like a certain i don't know jujitsu related thing but so blaze was like so mortified because we were like oh who's gracie and it's like the name of like the brothers who brought jujitsu to america and um oh who are the rockefellers i bet they're cute i bet it's a cute puppy dog yeah that's basically the equivalent of how we were talking about it and he was like he's like christine you i thought you know this and i was. Yeah, that's basically the equivalent of how we were talking about it. And he was like, he's like, Christine, you I thought you know this. And I was like, oh, I guess maybe in the back of my brain somewhere I knew that.

So anyway, that I just I know he was like so mortified. And I feel like a lot of people listening probably thought we were big dumbos. Well, I mean, there are so many people that go to training rings. Apparently there are. There's one that I know. And I shocked to learn about it this past weekend well uh yeah that's such a you know he's such an enigma i can see why he is an enigma married him because i mean i knew he did jujitsu when i first started hanging out with you in Yeah, that was in like 2017. Yeah. And then I assumed once you guys had a kid, it just kind of faded away. He never did it again.

Like since then, once he started his job in LA, he just like completely stopped. So it's been like four years since he had done it. When did he pick it up again? Only like a couple weeks ago? No, I think like a year ago, maybe. Maybe a little less than a year ago. A few months ago. i don't know but uh yeah he goes like twice a day he's like training then he works out at home i mean i don't know um

so that's like buff and ripped and everything he's really but he's like in the best shape ever he's really i'm meanwhile i'm just under a blanket and here, like, drinking wine. But he's living his best life. So anyway, I'm just proud of him. I just want to, and he listens to the podcast every week. So I want to say a little shout out. He probably skipped this because he's embarrassed, but. He heard the Gracie thing and went, oh my God. Oh no, he's like, not again.

So that's all. That's why I drink. And also Knoxville is a cool ass town. But the last time i was there i saw that ghost remember sitting at the edge of my bed um he was like you know in a tank top um and was just watching me sleep one of the girlies with the little tank top girlie well you know i said wife beater last time and then i was like that's probably not the thing we're supposed to say so certainly not um i changed it to tank top. But then

remember, I woke up and I realized I was on top of the bed and it was like tucked in under me. So actually, no, I forgot about that. But thanks for the nightmares. That was your favorite detail. So I went back and apparently so our friends, taylor and morgan who host creeps and crimes live in knoxville and so i messaged them for any like recommendations and they were like we're both separately out of town this weekend and i was like damn it but so they gave me great recommendations and then when i said where i was staying they were like oh that's a haunted hotel and i was like you have got to be kidding me um but i didn't see any ghosts this time. I only saw one at like the Holiday Inn Express or whatever the last time. The Red Roof Inn.

Yeah, exactly. So anyway, sorry that was long. But that's why I drink. May I ask why you drink this week, my friend? I don't have a reason why I drink. That's probably good. I know, for once, let me have this um i'm sure i could scrounge up a problem in my life we always do you know it's hard to believe but um next week i am

going to the beach with my mom which um that already sounds rough to the beach with to beach with anyone but i don't know the beach with. I don't even fucking like the beach. Let's be clear. The beach is overrated. I hate the ocean. I hate the sand. There's animals in there. Did you know that?

Girl, you're making a joke, right? We've talked about this. I mean, yeah. I like how you hate the animals in there, the fish. Oh, my God. Okay. I was like, do I have to tell you about my intense fear? Holy shit.

Have you heard about the... I don't like it either. I don't have an intense fear as bad as you do but i get it like i smell my jam not my jam i went into a lake recently i went to a lake as i told you almost drowned why would you do that remember i was like holding the because i was trying to bring high noons to the people of the lake oh yes yes yes aka renee and lindsey and i almost like drowned myself and they were like they float um but yeah so i was in a lake and that was incredibly traumatic so i an ocean is like i don't think so oh i just can't even tolerate it i literally to know that i'll never i'll never be a surfer okay like there are some things in my life there's some things in life

where i can look at it and it's like i'll die before i know that knowledge and i'm fine with it i'm so proud that i'll know i also think sometimes like why are people surfers good for them but like the last thing i'd ever want to do in my life is wake up at 5 a.m to go into the ocean and you know what i'm like my own walking fucking question mark because i love a waterfront view i love a waterfront view i love being near water because i like hearing the waves and i like hearing the tide and i like looking at the shore and like the sunsets are beautiful like nothing i love more than the view but if you expect me to stand on a beach oh my god we're gonna have problems and so oh lord i just can't take it also as i'm learning more about myself in recent years i'm delving into um sensory issues i didn't realize

i had that explains a lot i just don't like oh the sensory is bad i mean sand i can't imagine someone going to the sand and actually feeling relaxed after being on sand especially like the ocean is salty thus sticky and then you go and there's the sand and then the sand adheses to you from the sticky water oh and you have to shower to you uh-huh and then it's true i just can't even tolerate it oh my god not a word but yes it is true um adhesives adhesives adheres adheres uh thank you but um i really i really my dumb ass brain thought adhesives was it's close enough we all knew what you meant but so my mom is um yeah so why are you calling good call especially because not only me between me and between my mom and tom there's five of us oh no kids oh i was like that's not correct between me

there's seven of us there's five kids and not a single child is excited about this trip why are you doing it i mean it sounds like the quintessential family trip where nobody wants to go except the parents well okay so there we have one who's not even going which i'm is that you are you know that sounds like you there's one that's not even going uh one one has like their own really intense uh sensory needs more than i have and they're not interested in going to the beach but they have to go anyway they have to go anyway too bad this is kind of like half of like a graduation present for them so oh that's nice so like congratulations we're going to the place you hate roll around in the sand for a few minutes we're so proud of you

well i think it's like my mom wants to have like a family oh it'll be lovely linda i'm not i hope you're not offended i'm no she's used to all five of us going why are we going okay good i'm just joking along um no the the real answer of why we're going is she like already had like uh like she has a timeshare and so she already had that scheduled and so she was like well while m's in town and there's a graduation it just made sense it made sense what can i ask what town like where is it hilton head which i've gone to before i say as we talk about how much we hate the beach well so in beach towns and i love a boardwalk we all know i love you love we know i love you love anything quirky oh yeah i love i love a mini golf you know they've got it there i love i love anything touristy and awful and

how do you feel about saltwater taffy i want to be a fan i wish i was wish i was too and i don't like it i can't do it every time i go to cape cod or somewhere i'm like okay this is it this year i'll be like yeah and i try it and i'm like that i don't want it i really i do love every boardwalk's got one of those like holy crap you can smell it candy stores. Yeah, that's the best. I do like those. But I can't get into the taffy. The taffy is not it for me. Anyway, so it's interesting watching my mom flounder because she's trying to put together a beach trip for the family where nobody wants to do anything beach.

It sounds like a weird reality show, like a competition show. It's going to be a lot of i don't know restaurants my only request was like whatever the cheesiest most awful mini golf she can find is oh that'll be fun everything else i will even if i'm not having like the best time i'm gonna smile through because like i know my mom's putting like hard effort into this but if we don't have mini golf, I will become such an evil person. So good. And I'm trying so hard not to revert back to my teenage behavior because my mom will be there. But they'll come out if I don't get any golf.

Your mom will be there. So it will happen. Right, right, right. So anyway. Wow. That is quite a reason. You were like, I don't have a reason. But here we are.

But if i dig not too deep we'll find it if i just scratch the surface right no i appreciate my mom trying but it was like try somewhere else next time too no i actually there's we i think there's going to be one day where we like get out of hilton head and just go to another city nearby, which will be fun. We all like a good city. Love a good city. Anyway, Christine, that's why I drink.

That's why you drink. Why do you all drink? Just kidding. I can't hear you through my headphones. Oh, ow. I can hear you. So many voices. So loud.

Twelve whole voices. Mom? Because I have a grateful child who doesn't want to go to the beach honestly if that was the reason why she drinks this week i don't blame her i take her out to a nice winery and it'll be great win win that's what i'm saying like all of us well only one of us is not of drinking age but i don't know why she didn't just pick something like that but whatever i went to a winery recently by the way you had the best the best seriously sliders of my life i thought you're gonna say the best time of your life i was like wow that's the best time

sliders oh where was the winery it is in charlottesville it was a big winery area um it sounds delightful wow they had sliders that i still can't stop thinking about anyway ready for a scary story I don't know how to segue out of that. I think you did it perfectly. I wouldn't have even noticed. Speaking of sliders, let's slide into a scary, spooky story. There it is. You nailed it. We're talking about a seminary

today. You know I get creeped out by this. It's called the Madison Seminary seminary okay which made me think oh it's gonna be in madison wisconsin it's not um madison's also just a name which i need to remember more often um it is in ohio oh lake county it's in madisonville probably not that would be very convenient that'd be two on the nose lake county there's so many places in ohio where i'm like it sounds so generic i have no idea oh it's up by uh cleveland oh the mistake by the lake oh is that what it's called yeah well i'm sure they wouldn't like that but yes

that is that's the official name of Cleveland. I'm a stink, but I'm like, what a... Oh, I just heard something. I need to stop talking immediately. There's something so funny I just thought of a couple of days ago, and now I won't remember it. Anyway. Oh, cool. Good story. What did you say yesterday?

Quit bragging. Quit bragging. Lisa Lampanelli original okay so lake county ohio i know with virginia i like in california if it's in northern california i've never heard of it and in west virginia if it's on that little skinny tip i've never heard of it isn't that funny yeah i mean and lake county just sounds so generic like an author wrote that as a filler for now. Yes. Yes. All right.

Well, in Lake County, Ohio, the Madison Seminary was established in 1847. And the seminary was inside of a very small cottage that was used to host classes for men and women. The whole thing was a cottage. The whole seminary was a cottage. Tiny house, tiny school. I bet there was technically a one-room schoolhouse. One-room. I was just thinking. I'm like, I'm waiting for you to say it.

Oh, you know I love a one-room schoolhouse. Oh, I sure do. Actually, I have nothing to do today after this, so I think maybe I'm going to go look for one. We could be just planning things in the moment. I'm so avant-garde you are so quirky and eccentric and original um but my heart did kind of do a little jump when you said that because that sounds so fun and i can't wait to hear about it my therapist i i said something about being eccentric and she went let's unpack that next week and i went no why would you say she's like uh-oh the e-word came out well i

also told her that i hate the e-word and she was like interesting we'll unpack that and i went i shouldn't have said anything should have kept your mouth shut uh okay so 1847 it's established and in 1859 so 12 years later the student body has grown to 150 people i don't run a school goodness that feels slow i feel like i feel like that's a lot in a cottage okay in a cottage yes the cottage is overwhelmed right i am not at the number of students you are not after 12 years only 15 only 12 years yeah 150 people in 12 years that's like not even 15 people or 10 people a year oh that was the total number i thought it was like by 12 years they had that many in one class oh maybe that is it i don't know more sense slightly at

any rate um to them business was booming and so good for them they had to build a boarding hall and attach it to this i don't know if it's attached or if it's just next to the cottage but they have a boarding hall now so people are living there okay in 1891 uh the seminary is now being donated to the ohio women's relief corps to house former army nurses and female relatives of the civil war soldiers wow um that included sisters mothers widows and i guess i don't know enough about that era but it wouldn't surprise me if like if your soldier dies and you can't you need someone to help you live or you need to move somewhere because they're not there to help pay rent or whatever that's what the seminary was used for for them

to make sense uh so this is how legislators agreed to help women who were displaced by the war and this was before there was a va or social security um so this was their their way their way of helping eventually the seminary became the home of the national relief corps and was renamed the madison So this was their way of helping. Eventually, the seminary became the home of the National Relief Corps and was renamed the Madison Home instead of the Madison Seminary. Okay. And the home expanded over time to... See, this is the type of businesses boom that I'm talking about. 12 years. You're actually...

Your thought of like maybe it's 150 per year is different. This one sounds more fancy schmancy. Okay. They had to expand eventually to 32,000 square feet of housing and had to create almost 100 dorms. 32, like that is a jump. This is a booming. Booming. Yeah.

Business is a booming. Booming. Yeah. The most famous resident here was Elizabeth Stiles, who is not related to Harry Stiles. And I said most... What about... What? What? Ryan Stiles.

Ryan Stiles? I haven't heard that name in a long time i literally brought him up like five days ago and someone was like what a reference i don't know why he's one obscure name to say ryan styles his whole feelings are so hurt i'm like who's julia styles i'm talking about ryan's not harry styles god forbid no i love ryan styles wow i love whose line is it anyway it's my favorite show you got me flummoxed that was the word you used earlier oh my god um okay most famous resident was maybe ryan styles ancestor elizabeth styles who pretty cool was a civil war spy and her and her husband were vocally anti-slavery but um confederate sympathizers did not like that and executed her husband oh my god she saw them

execute him oh no and she would have been executed herself but she was too pretty to shoot oh there's so much wrong with all of the above if we were to dive in we we would not leave for a while never come out yeah so they spared her and her children great um and i don't know what happened between then and the rest of the story but apparently president lincoln himself recruited her to become a spy what oh this was so she became a spy after uh-huh her husband died oh i thought they were both spies uh her and her husband no they were just anti-slavery yeah and i don't i don't know how she ran into president lincoln i don't know how he looked at her and said you're gonna be one good spy i don't know what happened but he recruited her himself okay and she was very good at it she was so good at it

that one time she got caught and arrested and convinced the confederate officer and she was very good at it she was so good at it that one time she got caught and arrested and convinced the confederate officer that she was actually a rebel spy on their side and he released her gave and gave her his own horse and a better gun okay i'm loving this lady right now yeah she said i'm gonna take my pretty looks and do what i need to with them oh wow good for her uh but yeah she was apparently just a really good spy and did i cover her on at a live show once it sounds so familiar like i definitely covered a spy who would like travel in the south and talked her way out of a bunch of stuff but it could have been a different a different person anyway i'm just wondering i don't know i don't know i believe no but i also i'm just fucking guessing i also believe probably not um it'd be a spooky coincidence wouldn't it yeah i bet there's

probably more than one spy there might there just might be the only one i know is like jason born other than that never heard of us by my wife um so in that anyway she was the most famous resident to live there okay in 1904 the madison home lost its funding and the state took it over and renamed it the longest name i've ever known in my entire life um the it's called the home for ohio soldiers sailors marines their wives, mothers, widows, and army nurses. You were not kidding. I thought halfway through we were done.

I don't, how do you even etch that into stone? Oh my God. That's seriously. It's like they kept saying, oh, what about X, Y, Z? Oh yeah. Yeah. I appreciate how inclusive they were trying to be, but I'm sure one word could have done just that, you know? What if you forget one at the end now you're like well shit

it's the the acronym i tried to spell out an acronym with it and that still didn't work it's h-o-s-s-m-t-w-m-w-a-n awesome want one yeah yeah yeah it's chauncey bliss's favorite word so the facility had issues. It just sounds like every time someone gets this property, there's problems. The facility had issues. And then in 1953, the state had to hold a year-long investigation over rumors of sexcapades. Oh, my. And parties among the staff who were taking care care of ohio soldiers sailors marines their wives

mothers widows and army nurses so and chauncey bliss and chauncey bliss so they ended up having to get new management because i guess the prior staff was having too good of a time and in 1962 the home belongs to the Ohio Department of Mental Hygiene and Corrections. Oh, that sounds like a very scary. That sounds like one flew out of the cuckoo's nest or something. Yes, I don't like I don't want to be part of it. I don't want them knocking on my door. Let's put it that way.

The Department of Mental Hygiene and Corrections. Oof. Oof. I just feel like anyone who works there is a piece of shit. Mental hygiene. I just feel like they're gonna like scrub my brain with that's what i think and maybe it's just actually like a lovely lovely therapist who all she cares about is saving people and helping them out let's talk about eccentricity

and i'm like no let's unpack that next week um so anyway the they it now belongs to them this building and the remaining older residents who lived there before it became the department of mental hygiene they were returned to their families or moved to nursing homes so that way they could just start out clean with new people coming in oh okay the home was renamed by the department of mental hygiene as opportunity village okay that sounds like the most sinister pleasantville bullshit i ever heard like the mental hygiene association is like i know they'll never they'll never undercut under it sounds like it could be like a nickname for like up like the united states trying to be all the american dream like yes welcome to opportunity village or like one of those vhs

tapes they would put in like welcome to your first day on the job yeah you may be wondering how you ended up in opportunity village it's like something sinister about that no it feels really dark for no reason at all and again there's probably just some lovely occupational therapist who just really wants to like live out her dream of helping people she's just like hand painting like opportunity village on a thing and we're just being such assholes about the name ma i got it the job an opportunity village i've always wanted it i've always wanted i'm packing up ma our lives are about to change. I'll see ya. I'll see ya, I will. What the fuck is happening?

I'm being taken over by Opportunity Village. Oh no, it's getting sucked in. We lost a good one. Okay, so anyway, it was renamed Opportunity Village, and someone had to talk like that. Sure. And so it ended up housing psychiatric patients that were overflow from the Cleveland State Hospital. Got it. Cleveland State Hospital. an extension of i i don't totally understand the i don't know enough about the logistics of this but there were patients in cleveland state hospital there were too many of them so they're now going

over to opportunity village but by doing this the building became an extension of the apple creek institution and i wonder if that's like the oh i wonder if that was like they worked with the cleveland state hospital or in some way they came in like you don't know how they came in to play yeah in some way all three of them are connected to each other um maybe there's the apple creek institution and that institution is at cleveland state hospital i don't know but all three of them are working together opportunity village housed women specifically who uh were mostly independent but couldn't live completely on their own so they just had some additional needs okay um and it also housed women from the ohio women's reformatory who did occupational therapy to transition back into the public.

Oh, okay. There were rumors around town of patient abuse and even one woman being murdered. Oh, I miss the sexcapade rumors. Those were more fun. Yeah, you should have just cut the original stuff. They know how to throw down. They were having a good time. Yeah, it sounds like everyone was having a good time at Opportunity Village.

Amen. And so, unfortunately, Opportunity Village closes because of these rumors of abuse. And eventually, through the 80s, the building becomes multiple things, including a police department and administration offices. And that being said, now we're all the way into the 80s and 90s. And ghosts have been a thing ever since the beginning of time, since it was a seminary. Ghosts have been rumored to be here all the way back then, I guess at one point when students lived on campus there or in the little cottage. They had a doctor's office that they built for the students students and there was a ghost that used to show up in the office and would move objects around and interact with patients

what i don't like that i wonder why like i wonder how they ended up there especially because with renovations i feel like you stir up old stuff but this feels like all like maybe it appeared with the building brand new yeah that's very bizarre but so it like maybe it felt crowded with the walls around it maybe it was just like yeah maybe it was like someone who'd lived on the land before and then was like oh a house yeah i remember those i had one i had one of those yeah so they would move objects um it would touch people and when the building was used as an office space employees would see doors open and close lights and sinks turn on by themselves they'd hear footsteps in

the hallways and they would always feel themselves being watched but my favorite thing about this time is that there was a ghost who would in front of everybody pick up their their phone the office phone and it would dial numbers what is this like a rotary phone i guess so yeah it would just but apparently people saw this and then they would oh my god and and it wouldn't hang up so it would just dial people and then leave the phone there and you would now have to talk to people it's literally your phone anxiety nightmare yeah that's my nightmare that's like a ghost who's trying to torture me um it's just like now you have to explain why you called and they would have to apparently they'd all have to be like i'm sorry i didn't actually mean to call you oh do you get it oof i could totally see harry in your house just picking up

your phone and butt dialing someone for you and then just leaving it open. I don't give him any ideas. Oh, I forgot to tell you. I think I saw a ghost yesterday. Shut the fuck up, Christine. I'm not kidding. And it's never happened before. But in the past couple weeks, I kept, you know that thing where you're like something out of the corner of your eye and you're like, I don't like that.

And it's been happening a lot the last few weeks and since I moved in it was not ever an issue um but so it's been happening more and then yesterday I was sitting in my office chair while my brother was trying to fix something over here on the mixer and like literally the door was open like cracked open pretty far and I just saw somebody like walk up to the doorway out of the corner of my eye and then just keep walking into the bathroom and i was like i swear to god my whole body like froze and i was like i'm gonna look to the right there's not gonna be anybody there so i forced myself to look and there was nobody there and i was like i have to pee and i got up and looked in the bathroom of course nobody there but i'm telling you like a tall person walked past did he stop and like look at you

yeah like paused in the doorway and i was like so i was like well it's taller than blaze i don't know i and my brother was obviously i could see him so it was not him but i was like i don't that's the first time that's ever happened here, so... I don't know what it means. That's some insidious shit. Is it, like, getting stronger? Yeah, I don't know. It's moments like that where if I ever see something in the corner of my eye,

every time my gut feeling, not a real gut feeling, but my fabricated one to make me, like, be able to sleep at night, is I tell myself, oh, I just caught a time traveler. That's almost scarier to me. But I always pretend it's me time traveling. Oh, okay. Because I'm like, why are you in my house, time traveler?

Get out. No, no, no. If I ever see something in the corner of my eye, I'm like, oh, I almost busted myself. Okay. I could do that. And then that way I'm like, I knew. Maybe it was you. It was really tall. Yeah, exactly. Maybe I went, maybe I was on a mission and I was like I'm like, I knew it was really tall.

Yeah, exactly. Maybe I went, maybe I was on a mission and I was like, Oh shit, I got spotted and I had to flee. And then you went looking for me in the bathroom. But you need to be much more careful.

I know. Cause I can't live like this. I'm really bad at it over here too. I just, I keep almost getting busted. Stop. You're freaking me out. And I keep waiting for the day that i'll

finally be recruited to be a time traveler so that way we can get these missions confirm it yeah you can be like oh it was me all along yeah exactly but i didn't tell my brother and i was like i'm just gonna keep my mouth shut but once you just said harry i was like oh maybe that was him i don't know maybe us talking about him is like opening i know that's what i'm worried about and i don't stop. Oh, okay. Well, I'll follow your lead. I just clearly can't stop myself.

So as long as he doesn't disturb my naps, I'm we're in the clear him and me. So maybe that's what you were trying to do in your time traveling. You were trying to check on your nap spot, which is right. That was not available to this day. I don't think I've ever known a better nap spot in my life. Oh, I wanted to add real quick. Speaking of ghosts that y'all were right. There was some weird. Did you hear about the audio issues in?

I heard about it, but I haven't heard the actual audio issue. But it's been taken out. It's been taken out. People were messaging me like, you really you really got me good. And I was like, what? And like people thought we were pranking them because at the end, it was like me talking about how i would deal with the dolls and so it was a listener episode and near the end like all the audio is totally fine near the end i start talking about like this is what i would do with the doll and all of a sudden my voice turns into this like bizarre

echoey like it's almost like my voice is layered on top of itself and eva and jack our editor went back and listened to the original before he exported it and it sounds completely normal so it was just the exported version had this weird like several minutes of me talking in like a creepy double layer um and so people thought we were like pranking them and i was like no ah wasn't me um and that was we talked about ptd in that yes and i said i'm not scared to say her name and uh who said that i did because i'm well you're stupid i know look at that my voice was fine look your voice was fine um and so just fyi folks we were not that was not intentional. I don't know what happened. Oh, my gosh.

Yikes. Well, anyway. Yeah. There are dolls out there. Apparently there's time travelers out there. Christine seeing things in our house. Yikes. Well, once the ghost starts to pick up your phone for you and start calling and start calling people and not hanging up, that when you really need to like bring an exorcist shit so that was happening here uh the office phones were

getting picked up and staff had to then explain to people why they were calling nightmare also many people saw a woman in the upstairs hallway and also started seeing her in the upstairs window from outside no no no no no no no no, no, no, no, no. A Cleveland news station tried to actually film a piece on this place, but their cameras all stopped working at the exact same time. Oh, she is a good spy. Yeah, she's like, what are you doing now? She's like, I can disable

your equipment. Well, other recording equipment started also freaking out. And just like how no one was actually calling anyone on those phones and a ghost was doing it no one was pressing record on a lot of this equipment yet but the equipment would start recording all by itself random conversations that the crew was having ew and then it would stop recording play back like rewind and then press play so that way people could hear their voices being recorded do you wonder if maybe they were saying an evp and they were like listen

back oh something into the tape oh that's genius christine that would be a very advanced ghost don't get me wrong but to even have the awareness of an evp to then say i left you a message in here yeah oh that's interesting i don't know or maybe it was like now you're the evp yeah yeah right right right here it's you talking yeah that's that freaks me out for for the ghosts to have knowledge on how to use a recording equipment and then what year was this that they were filming or they were trying to do a documentary was this like in the tape days like i think in the late 80s early okay so it would have been like a quite a to-do to start recording you have to like put a proper tape in and and also what if you don't bring enough literal film

back then yeah like what if it like takes away your ability to film you know that sucks um an anchor uh actually started trying to film there saw the equipment starting on its own because the crew wasn't ready yet and she freaked out and she ran off because it just freaked her out so much and as she ran off seconds later right where she was standing a window pane blew out of the house oh my god what that's scary that's dangerous one student that worked there actually quit their job because they kept hearing voices telling them to leave employee be like okay yeah i'd be like you got it dude bye employees would hear children playing when no one was there and the sound of people in the halls when there was nobody there got so loud

that it started setting off the police alarms oh my god one electrician working there saw a woman with dark eyes and dark hair and a white nightgown floating off of the floor and she charged at the electrician chased him away into a hallway and then vanished there's something about like them charging at you oh it's just so bad it's it's i don't i'm still haunted by the story you told yesterday or last week for people listening where the guy's consciousness moved to the person across the room and then ran toward himself oh oh it's gonna haunt me forever that's you know something was looking at you and charging at you and wanted you to see it from its perspective horror like horrifying like my goose cam central so in 1993 the building went up for rent again

and the ad for it said for rent historic building on Middle Ridge Road can be leased cheap. Caution, building may be haunted. Wink. I feel like if you're trying to sell this place and you're trying to pitch it and you already have to give a warning that it might be haunted. Girl, read through the lines. It is haunted. Lean into it, you know, be like, it's haunted as fuck. We're not going to lie to you.

It's so haunted, and this is us soft launching that to you? Yeah. Soft launching. In 1998, the building was sold to a private owner, and people just started doing investigations on the ground. So as of 98, it's pretty much just for investigations. Ghosties. Today, its main use is paranormal investigations.

Really? And and it said that quote no one leaves disappointed oh i want to go you're a mess after everything i just said you're like pack up we are immediate immediate let's go you forgot everything we just talked about about how we the phone thing yeah phone that alone that's the magic of uh of my brain it's very good at compartmentalizing so i don't remember any of that i wonder if the ghosts have kept up with how equipment works times yeah like do you think you need to bring an analog recorder for them to turn it on or do you think they can do it with like an infrared camera so when we go we should bring like a tape recorder because that's like the old school you know a recorder of a recorder to record

us recording oh okay sure sure sure sure yeah eva did she get catch that so when the building was a hospital everyone lived on site and one of the popular ghosts there was a nurse or one of the most popular ghosts today is a nurse who lived and worked there around that time and he said to be super tall and is usually seen peeking around doors into former patients rooms as if he's doing check-ins that's kind of what it felt like here like a tall figure kind of like looked in and then kept walking like you're good i'm not usually so he has a lot of work to do he's very this tall figure is very possessive of his old room and today people do not like going into his space because they feel something eerie there yeah i get it listen i'm not

good you don't want me there fine it's always it's always weird to me when someone says like oh and he likes to peek around corners because in my mind there's like kind of a lunge to that where he's like kind of it's a little too aggressive and i am i imagine i'd be really startled if i saw someone like come out from behind a door that wasn't supposed to be there and it's also like the the way it's worded as peeking it feels like just their top half kind of comes into view, which is like somehow so much creepier. Yeah, I don't want your full body to be here, but also where is it? Yeah, don't get me wrong.

But also I'd like to know that it exists. And so it's interesting that it seems like, oh, it's just checking in as if he's a doctor and it's not harmful or scary at all, but don't go in his room. This ghost is usually very friendly or at least non-threatening but has been known to be hostile towards people um who bother him oh god so he's like i won't act unless provoked oh i don't like that in 2016 the owner began turning rooms into time capsules by restoring them to their former glory, which made the ghosts even more active. Oh, actually, I kind of love that.

Me too. That's a cool, and I feel like that's cool to just even visit, you know, to see it. To at least know, like, oh, what it looked like at the time. Yeah, it's like your one-room schoolhouse back in its full glory. I can't even think about it. It's like your one room schoolhouse back in its full glory. I can't even think about it. Elizabeth Stiles, the famous spy.

She died in the house and now haunts the Wittenmeyer College. No, Wittenmeyer Cottage building. Oh, she floats around in her vintage dress. OK, girl. And she's eager to interact with investigators. So psychics have had full conversations with her and she will appear by choice to guests and staff so not like a random manifestation you catch with your like you catch by accident she will at like free will just appear she is a good spy even now in the afterlife always in hiding until she wants to make her move i am impressed i am i kind of want to go here

okay take me to there please we can go we can go yes we can go evo right right down this time stamp but only if elizabeth styles is there because she seems like a real homie i would love to chat with her she alleges no no she allegedly likes the furniture improvements and has moved into her favorite room um i saw one of the sources said that she has vocally given her opinion about the furniture and i'm like what does that mean vocally i'm like also she's like next i was gonna say yeah that could mean she gives the thumbs up or she's very vocally not interested. Not about it.

The mid mid century modern, not her thing. Not her thing. When furniture was being put into the cottage for the first time, another spirit of a woman appeared who now is also seen walking around. So I guess she liked the furniture and it kind of brought her back. So she just was like,op here i am nice sofa that chair was all it took this entire time for me to get here weird maybe it was a fainting couch she's like finally somewhere for me to rest a daybed christine oh i know you love a day if something happens to me and you don't keep a

pillow in your nap section for me at all moments. I mean, hello. We're going to have a problem. Although I'm facing it while we record. So if something happens to you and you just like appear right behind my laptop, it's not going to be good for my mental health. But me haunting your house at best is just me hanging out with Gio. And you'll hear snores from that corner. Yeah, that's true. It's not going to be anything that insidious.

Any yummy food will be opened in your pantry leona's gonna love it she'd be like it wasn't me yeah yeah yeah um uh also this is interesting though because it sounds like once the renovations happened and they were restoring it all of a sudden more ghosts it became more active yeah so i'm wondering are the ghosts that were there that we knew about already did they become heightened in power or did we accidentally like bring people from the other side back to become right were they like laying low and they were just like yeah in wait for the right daybed to appear or was it like or what if they had some if they're bringing in period pieces like to furnish the place what if they some were attached to some of the furniture and they got so they move they're moving in they're moving in that makes the most sense to

me because i the idea of there being more ghosts in this house that just need one piece of furniture that's so alarming to ignite them exactly it's like i don't like that they're like waiting to hatch out of their little yeah it's like they're just waiting for me to bring that one high chair in or something for them to start really getting it going you know the one high chair yeah so i wonder if uh maybe they're attached to the furniture i don't know maybe i um uh the one ghost with the boots in my room he tried to show up last night no what happened i just felt him and i was i just went i waved my hands i went no no we're too old for this shit now we're like oh come on i know him and i've been doing this tango for like 28 years and i'm like i just went no no

i don't like that and then i went two options here you can stay in this room while i sleep and you don't bother me or go away you can have the room back on friday when i'm gone oh perfect okay and did he leave yeah he went away good yeah so i think we've got an understanding at this point i think because now i'm probably the age his ghost has been this entire time so maybe now we're here he's like finally you get all my aches and pains yeah i'm like just leave me alone for like two seconds okay so these these the furniture has brought these new spirits in. Right. And when so now there's a third spirit in this same cottage.

So in the one cottage, there's Elizabeth Stiles, the spy. And she really started showing up because she liked when they started doing the restorations. Right. Then a whole second spirit that we didn't even know about showed up during the restorations because she also liked the furniture. And now in the same cottage that they haunt, there's also a third spirit named Stephen, who is allegedly the son of a soldier's widow. And he died in that house in childhood. Oh, no, it's a little boy ghost. Sad. But he's got two furniture enthusiasts there to help him.

He's got Elizabeth Stiles styles another woman he has cozy places to take a nap they have a chosen family together that's nice he's apparently a real little cutie pie too because he's not shy and he likes appearing before people and he likes to play games and he is very happy here oh okay well that's good there's a ghost uh named sarah who haunts the ward where patients lived and some say she is a kid but other people say that she is an older woman with dementia and just has kind of the memories of a kid oh interesting either way she's very kind her room is set up to keep her happy and people bring her gifts and books and toys that she plays with and she does respond when spoken to and has said that she's happy okay well that's nice

um in 2013 there was an article where a woman said that they were having issues with one of the dolls in the building yeah moving around by itself they would just find i don't know what i expected but i know like it could only be so many things yeah what happens next yeah they were saying like we can't keep this one doll from moving all over the building on its own the doll shows up in locked rooms. No, no. The doll is found sitting in the hallways looking at you. Nah. And the doll is found looking out of windows from the outside of the building. Okay, which is worse, the doll or the woman in the window? The doll.

For sure. Okay, just want to make sure that I'm following properly. A quote from the article. If you ask me, the scariest thing about the place right now is that creepy doll we can never we can never find it when we look for it and yet a day later we'll discover it's sitting at the bottom of the stairs where someone will see it okay so it's also like hiding from people this is so gross i'm sorry no it is and it's like it makes me so uncomfy i'm like is something possess it is. And it's like, I. It makes me so uncomfy. I'm like, is something possessing the doll or is there someone carrying the doll around as like a symbolic?

Oh, you can see this. You can see me popping around. Or do you think it's just like that little kid, Steven, and he's actually playing with the doll? Oh, he's carrying it around. You're right. It could be his toy. I didn't think of that. Like it could be not meant to be threatening and i didn't think of that like it could be not meant to be threatening and he doesn't even get that it's so fucking scary he's like i'm in the

window and everyone's like it could be like a total accident this poor kid oh no i wonder if he was sitting next to the woman who was getting interviewed for that article and he just heard the scariest thing about this house is that freaking doll and he's like what so he hits the like record button he's probably hitting the buttons on the tape recorder too i'm starting to understand the third floor um of what was the hospital is now said to be one of the bigger hot spots here this is where patients with um heavier with more needs lived um and some think that because these patients would have been the most vulnerable to abuse oh but that's why their spirits are now the most active sad one male spirit here uh wants people to stay away from his room and will shove people out and does not like being

questioned by investigators just doesn't want anything to do with them oh god and if he is one of the patients who lived here and dealt with patient abuse can you blame him for wanting strangers to not be in his room no i mean that's just probably traumatizing for him probably get the fuck out i don't know you um and many investigators who know to leave this room alone or to leave him alone and still go in there we'll leave with scratches on them oh which like i kind of respect those scratches though i'm like it doesn't sound like it's demonic it sounds like you're not respecting boundaries you're in his space yeah yeah so what a shock consequences um and meanwhile you i feel like this is a lecture you're giving me after we walk out and you're like what a shock christine consequences i'm like i know you warned me i i can't definitely add that into the uh the arsenal of things I just say to you when you might have to when things go exactly as expected.

What was the thing I used to say? I used to like put it on my little letter board. It was like, well, well, well, if it isn is the spirit of another kid who was a patient here, and he's said to be very friendly and communicative with equipment, and he gives a lot of EVPs, which is nice. Oh. There are also spirits of twin boys who are peeking around corners at you. That is what I call the shining. Yeah, forget it. That's the shining.

Why is everyone peeking around the doors god well interesting that you say that because i can't explain the first one where he also creeps people out but with the twins that are peeking at you many investigators say that most of the spirits here are children and they a lot of children usually if they saw strangers in their home, they'd be really curious but shy to approach. Oh. Oh. My next thought is that they would feed off of that in something dark could be posing as a child. Or acting curious.

So you can egg them on and say, no, come hang out with us. It's safe. Come in. Yeah. Inviting them. Queen Mary. Yep. Ding, ding, ding.

Dumbest, dumbest night of my life. Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of our own actions. Well, look at that. Consequences. Yeah. So some of these spirits will eventually come forward, but after some activity with equipment, it'll kind of go stale again because kids would usually retreat back after some hesitation right but of course there is something darker here um an entity made of combined multiple dark

spirits oh like a rat king that's what my brain goes yeah like a rat king kind of they're all intertwined yeah so one psychic said that there are a few dark spirits who i guess formed an alliance and smushed into each other smushed together so there are two spirits that make up one dark spirit the first spirit is one who abused patients oh no and the other is the one who allegedly murdered a woman on the property oh my god so these two assholes are like woohoo let's get together and form a team sickos so they combined into one really dark entity that people have experienced and when seen by psychics it appears as a shadow figure and it has split in two and run off in different directions you just gave me

goose cam oh no it splits in two i'm telling you oh oh everything about that is bad bad bad you know i what if both split off and charge you at the same time yeah what if they come at you from different directions oh my lord i just like what if instead it was like elizabeth styles the spy and instead of it being two evil spirits it was actually three spirits in a trench coat and she just kind of they would just kind of disassemble and run off when they got busted it's those twins and that little boy and they're like oh no we've been caught and the doll is like the head of the spirit yeah um i was gonna say oh i don't think i realized that like shadow people at least a lot of investigators think shadow people are like really dark entities yeah that's what i heard too i always thought like oh shadow person is just like

some weird like interdimensional thing but like apparently the more you watch these ghost shows the more people say oh shadow people are like usually inherently dangerous and dark and i'm like oh so that kind of lends credence to that what you just said i have always heard that i mean i've always gone off of like if it doesn't want you to be afraid then you're probably fine because it's trying to but then again that little fucking homegirl at the queen mary she didn't want us to be scared, you know? But we were kind of scared. So maybe.

I was a little scared. Yeah. Maybe it's like if you genuinely feel at peace. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, anytime I've seen a ghost with my eyes, luckily it was a good thing. Yeah.

Yeah. And it always looked as the real person. So true. So maybe if it's only a shadow figure, if it doesn't want you to know its identity. I will say like it could be anything. I don't know. The person that I saw in my doorway the other day was like a dark figure. Like it wasn't like a like it was just like almost like a silhouette, like a dark silhouette.

But I don't necessarily think it was like a shadow person. You like almost like a silhouette like a dark silhouette but i don't necessarily think it was like a shadow person you know what i mean like in the traditional sense yeah i don't know i think i'm happy like ignorance is bliss in this yeah because if i see a shadow person i want to have a little comfort that maybe it wasn't yeah yeah yeah yeah agreed agreed let's just go with that theory well even if you don't run into that being or beings a lot of people still feel like they're being watched in the rooms they feel a heavy darkness in the rooms and madison seminary is now a historical site and functions solely as a paranormal destination and on weekends people can do self-guided flashlight tours self-guided

self-guide they're like we don't even want to be part of it okay or you can book an overnight investigation um wow and many people get responses when they ask questions to the spirits in forms of knocks flashlight manipulation detector fluctuations um it just seems that someone is always open to communicate with you. But warning, because a lot of people have left with stomach pains, feeling total dread, burning sensations, scratch marks on them, being pushed, all that good stuff. So check it out if you want.

That's the Madison Seminary. Oh, Lord. I feel like we should go there and do an overnight. It sounds like you get a lot of activity. Right? I think we should go even if it's not for, like, the tour. I think we should go just to see what happens. Just to, like, take a little peek. Just a fun little peeksies.

Aw. Yeah, we'll see what Eva says. If Eva says no, then I guess we don't go. Mom! It is interesting that whatever Eva says goes. It goes true. I don't go. Mom! It is interesting that whatever Eva says goes. I don't think so. It's like, oh yeah, I didn't think so either.

I don't think so. It can just be like, um, and then we'll be like, never mind, you're right. Terrible idea. Yeah, we're very good at if we don't get immediate enthusiasm, we don't even want to do it anymore. Correct. We're like, yeah, you're right. We're not doing it. Never mind. We were wrong wrong and stupid i'll unpack that next week with my therapist yeah you have a lot to unpack next week you might have to push that one a week oh boy um good story

i've never even heard of that um well i have a wild one for you today um this is the story of laurie arnold aka the queen of meth oh my god.k.a. the Queen of Meth. Oh, my God. Wow. Yeah. I don't know about her. I'm excited to. I didn't either. But there's apparently a new docuseries about her. So if anyone has seen that, you may sound familiar. So Laurie Arnold, she was born and raised in Ottumwa, which is a small town in Iowa, and was the middle of three with an older brother named

Tom, and he definitely comes into play, and a younger brother named Scott. Her parents had her brother Tom when they were just teenagers, and so they were not ready to raise children, especially because their mom was a partier, lived like a pretty wild lifestyle. And so when Lori was three, her parents got divorced and a judge granted full custody of all three children to her mother. But then her mother relinquished custody to their father. So she got full custody in the divorce and then relinquished it to their father because she didn't want the responsibility of three children who were all under the age of four. father um because she didn't want the responsibility of three children who were all under the age of four and in retrospect tom the oldest believes giving them up was the best thing she could have done for them because she just was not equipped to raise them and care for them uh so laurie grew

up following her brother tom around he was only a year older than her and they were extremely close. She liked to roughhouse, wear jeans, hang out with the boys. In the 60s, she was known as a tomboy type who didn't adhere to the expectations of most girls her age. Which, you know, up until recently, I feel like that was a very controversial, I don't know the right word, but like a hard pill for some people to swallow when little girls refuse to wear dresses. Yeah. Somehow it's still shocking to some people. Somehow it's still hard for people. But so in the 60s, you can imagine this was like not cool with a lot of people. In an interview, Lori has said, I walk like a truck driver.

I cuss like a sailor and i fight like a man and you know she parties like an animal she parties like an animal that's for sure she sounds like someone i want to only go to parties with yeah well she is also the queen of meth so be careful oh never mind i forgot i forgot i forget where we're heading every time i always think that you're just describing someone i could vibe with but i like it because i feel like you close your eyes and let me just lead the way you know which is a very dangerous thing to let me do so yeah you'll be like and over there are the lava pits and over here is the oops uh there's a cliff somewhere oh um yeah so thank you for letting me lead the way um anyway when laurie was nine years old her dad married their next door neighbor ruth and ruth had two children from a previous marriage

and then had two more children with laurie's dad so now they are a family of seven laurie butted heads with her stepmother ruth who wanted laurie to start wearing dresses and behaving more feminine i know but laurie was very stubborn. She would hide her jeans and t-shirts somewhere outside the house, like under a bush. And then she would leave in a dress, change in an alley on the way to school and head to school. Like the quintessential high school, what you see in a movie. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Like, sure, I'll eat my lunch. Thank you. And then like tossing it or something on your way to school. Lori did pretty well in school.

She played sports. She took accelerated classes. She got good grades. And her classmates remember her as being ambitious and calculating. So this is a wild story, Em. In seventh grade, Lori found out a girl was afraid to walk home because a bully picked on her every day on her route. So Lori told the girl she would walk her home every day to protect her from the bully oh for the low low price of two dollars a day okay see that's what's up though see she said i'll help you you help me

yeah with and today with inflation that's about twenty dollars a day. So that's pricey for a seventh grader. Oh, damn. I didn't even think about inflation. Lori had a reputation as a tough girl. So for the girl who was being bullied, it seemed like a great setup, right? So every day the girl would pay Lori $2 and Lori would walk her home. Then Lori would drop her off safe and sound, turn around and meet up with the bully

and pay them half of the two dollars so they both got paid oh my god what what was even the reason she was like paying the bully to intimidate this girl so that she could get paid to walk her home she's like created this whole racket that's great oh i didn't even such a racket like and she's in seventh grade i mean what a trip i thought she was i thought this was a legitimate bully and she was just paying the bully for no reason that makes total sense that they were in on this together no she would turn around meet up with the bully and then they would go get hamburgers together i love that good for good for you making a buck wherever you can. Listen, make that paper, Lori. I don't know what to tell you, but she's really an individual.

So when Tom was 15, he decided he missed his birth mom, especially because he'd been hanging out at her house and she had no rules. So she let him drink, have his girlfriend over. And so he was like, fuck this. I'm moving in with mom. She lets me do whatever I want. So at 15 years old, he moved in with her. And Lori, being 14 and really close to her brother, followed and moved in with their mother as well. Unfortunately, things went downhill from here because her mom worked at the local Elks Club, which hosted frequent parties. And that meant 14-year- old Lori had to start working as a cocktail waitress and her mom would provide her with diet pills that would give her the energy to get through shifts and from what I know about diet pills in the you know 70s 80s is they're basically

amphetamine they're basically speed so she was constantly around adults who are drinking and doing drugs and she was on these on basically speed and having to work as a cocktail waitress so basically she matured very quickly she missed a lot of school and then she started dating a man uh who told lori's mom he was 18 but was actually 23 uh and keep in mind she's 14 so this man who says he's 18 but is actually 23 had recently divorced his 15 year old wife oh oh my god and so now is dating laurie and meanwhile laurie's mom had remarried a police officer and this police officer went to threaten laurie's boyfriend and gave him an ultimatum saying you either marry laurie or you go to prison for statutory rape so this guy decided to marry laurie in 1974 and laurie's mom drove them across state lines to missouri where a 14 year old could

legally marry an adult so laurie dropped out of eighth grade and moved in with her now husband, Bobby Rogers. And again, she is 14. So Lori's brother, Tom, said, I had this terrible feeling like her childhood was over and whatever innocence she had. I got to be a kid. I got in a lot of trouble, but nobody made me marry an adult who was a serial pedophile. And he basically felt that their mother had almost served lori up to a predator and it basically destroyed tom's relationship with his mother um and their relationship became openly hostile from that point on and up until her death and onward he still felt

very um he felt a lot of animosity toward his mother for for basically driving Lori to get married to this man. Bobby physically abused Lori. And after six months of marriage, she found out he was cheating on her with a 12 year old. Cheating on her. I know. I know. I know those aren't your words, your words. But yes, it's almost like how do you even phrase that?

Because cheating on her, they are married technically, but she is a child still. And cheating with a 12-year-old is not, that's not what that is. Yeah. Oh my God. Big yikes. So Lori called Tom, her brother, to pick her up and she divorced Bobby. She tried to go back to school to finish eighth grade, but based on an IQ test, the state accelerated her right past ninth grade into 10th grade. Oh, okay. Which was cool. But

she still felt uncomfortable being at school. She felt like she was an adult now. She didn't fit in with the other teenagers. I mean, she'd been married and divorced, right? And now she's in 10th grade. It's a bizarre scenario to be in um so laurie ended up dropping out of high school and getting her ged when she was 16 she met a woman at a local club named shirley who ran a brothel and poker games out of her house wow so this woman shirley took laurie in for several years and laurie said no thank you i don't want to do sex work so instead shirley had her do drug runs for her oh good oh good so she would go to the pharmacy once a week and say i'm here for shirley's order and she assumed shirley had like connections with the pharmacist and the pharmacist was like

on the sly giving her like drugs but eventually laurie actually figured out these drugs were just allergy pills that shirley was selling as speed at the poker games which i wonder if she even judged that or if she was like oh another businesswoman i see oh you want to know because the next bullet says she thought it seemed like a good deal so she started doing the same thing i was gonna say like after her you know paying paying the bully thing is sort of like the ethics are wishy-washy you know to her like she's like well yeah yeah i don't know no harm no foul victimless crime i feel like is where her mind was not quite true but um that's what she told herself so So eventually, Lori was friends with everyone in town. She had a reputation as a tough girl, but also friendly and outgoing.

So she was like very engaging as a person. She was constantly partying, which kept exposing her to dangerous situations, including a time when she was 18 and was sexually assaulted by two police officers. So at this young age, she was already in quite a dangerous environment. Then she met a man named Floyd Stockdahl. Now, Floyd was the captain of the Grim Reapers motorcycle gang. And if you research the Grim Reapers motorcycle gang, there are all these articles about them going away for like 150 years like uh going to prison they have quite a storied past this gang a collective rap sheet a collective rap sheet that spans many miles okay uh so this guy the captain of the grim reapers

floyd his nickname was sin stop it that's so cool i know i told i told alice and i thought that should be her nickname because it's like sin alice sin oh sin oh that's fine and i was like if you're looking for a badass name in my mind it's a it's a whole long thing but i'm convinced that her parents were hell's angels i don't know why um evelyn yes in my mind they're hell's angels i don't know why and so i'm like oh yeah and we've talked she's got like her own like tough nicknames that we've like played around with i'm like i don't know sin is in your name so i mean it's it's pretty good i used to call her alice sunflower so i don't think that has quite the same ring to it. Imagine the movie Joker. Imagine the origin story of Alice and Sunflower who becomes Sin.

My name was Christine Thimum and Jordan's was Jordandalion. Remember last week when I thought I was unwell? I was a little mentally unhinged listen you know i was just riding that train with you yeah yeah uh anyway so she meets sin uh aka floyd and with a name like floyd i imagine sin is like you know a little bit it makes sense um and so he was 16 years older than laurie uh but they they got together. The Grim Reapers, they were drug runners. They were taking advantage of the socioeconomic issues in Ottumwa. And times in town were very hard. And basically when people feel, oftentimes when people feel like

they're at a socioeconomic disadvantage, there's like any sort of depression in the area. A lot of people turn to drugs. And Floyd was in this business. So Floyd made Lori feel safe. They got married in 1980. They had a son together in 1981 named Josh. And they did not have it easy. Floyd was a Vietnam veteran living on unemployment, and they often didn't have heating or food. And sometimes when Floyd got drunk, he would come home and beat Lori. And the way Lori put it is she felt like she was too smart to be struggling so much. And she felt like she had gotten herself into and not to say people who are struggling are stupid or, you know, smart enough. Well, that's how she felt.

Yeah, but that's how she felt yeah but that's how she felt and i think part of it was like she felt like she got herself into this abusive situation by marrying this guy and relying on him but not feeling secure uh sure or safe because he beat her his name is sin i know right yeah so yeah kind of what you see on the package um so one day floyd's brother approached floyd and laurie and he said hey i found this new drug it's called meth i can't even imagine being there for that conversation now knowing what meth is fly on the wall like oh when she went from like like selling allergy pills to like literally i've heard about oh it's such a downward tumble yeah so he gave them three and a half grams of the

meth and told them to split it into quarter grams and sell each quarter gram for 25 dollars as an end result laurie was allowed to keep 150150 as profit. And because Lori was so social and friendly, she easily sold all three and a half grams in one night at one bar. Wow. Like just handled it. Little hustler. Little hustler. And wouldn't you know, meth was a local hit. What?

I know. I know. Headlining in Ottumwa. What? I know. I know. Headlining in Ottumwa. People in town remember becoming addicted after using it only once, which I've also heard is sometimes what happens. You try it once and it's so invigorating and so intense that people almost immediately become dependent on it.

One of Lori's friends said the feeling of the high was utopian oh wow and that's what i've heard man it's supposed to be really good high be really careful folks uh a tumwa relied economically on the hormel meat is that how you say that hormel or that's how i say it hormel can you say it i say say Hormel. Hormel, okay. On the Hormel meatpacking plant and slaughterhouses, cute, which employed a lot of the town. So this was like the local industry, right? Lori's father and her brother Tom both worked there, but overtime wasn't allowed, so employees were being forced to work faster and faster. And this is like a meat processing plant and a slaughterhouse. Like, this is dangerous work.

And so if you're being forced to finish your work in a certain amount of time, it becomes really dangerous. That's why in 1985, 1,500 Hormel workers went on strike throughout the country for fair wages and safer working conditions. It became such a heated debacle that the National Guard had to intervene. And the police even used tear gas to clear the strikers um the strikes then became protests and riots uh the national guard was using aggressive tactics against the strikers and then get this the company was able to legally fire all of the striking employees and in the end the negotiation negotiations failed and almost everyone lost their jobs so like the worst possible end result for a strike just asking

for some better wages and better safer working conditions you know cash too much to ask uh so fuck hormel i guess i you know didn't know much about him before, but fuck that big time. So now in places with struggles, which I feel like I kind of touched on, drugs often thrive because people are looking for a way to escape poverty, lack of health care, food insecurity, even just mental health issues that are a result of socioeconomic downturns. And some people even thought of meth as helpful because they felt it cured their alcoholism. They didn't need to drink as much because they had meth now. Also, there was so little that we knew about it at the time. Yeah. I imagine that, I mean, it probably just didn't feel much different than anything else that might have been working or I don't know.

Yes, it's sort of like, well, I cut back on my drinking, which we know is really dangerous and yeah can kill you and now i'm doing this and now i'm just happy yeah the utopia has set in yeah so exactly on that note laurie could not stop moving meth it basically sold as quickly as she got her hands on it uh she and floyd moved on from mike as their supplier floyd's, and started working directly with a supplier in California who had connections with a Mexican cartel. So she's like jumping up the ranks. She climbed that ladder. Real quick. She didn't climb it so much as she just like hopped.

Right. I don't know how. Leapt like Superman. One big leap. Yeah. They frequently drove on three day trips to California to move 10 pounds of meth at a time. And at this rate, Lori was making, get this, $200,000 a week in profit. Holy shit.

She didn't have a bank account, so she was just stuffing cash in her walls of the house. Wow. So Lori remembers that she wasn't just addicted to meth which she did deny but she did partake so it's hard to say uh she said she was also addicted to power and money and the way she kind of reconciled this to herself was that she thought of herself as somewhat of a robin hood type character she started buying cars for her friends she bought a bar and a 150 acre horse ranch and she employed all her friends to give them jobs she would buy up foreclosed houses at auctions and register them as low-income section 8 housing and then she would rent this out to her friends

who are usually single mothers on welfare and then she would use the section 8 payments from the government to pay off the mortgages and gift the house to the friends who were living in them. So she was really like lifting up the people in her life who were struggling. People close to her saw her as a generous woman. Some even called her a savior. But a big elephant in the room that she decided to ignore was the havoc that the drugs she sold were wreaking in her community and throughout the state of iowa so eventually moving meth from california became too risky so laurie hired a chemist built a laboratory in a trailer and buried the trailer on her horse ranch so you couldn't see it from an aerial view and oh my god i wrote it's giving

breaking bad right right like hiring your own chemist uh hiding them underground and saying make me meth uh and at this point laurie was able to turn 10 pounds of meth into 400 000 because now god she's making the meth she does she's there's no middleman you know wow her chemist made several batches a week and even though she's still considering herself this like heroic robin hood type she made the chemist test every every batch on himself oh my god this guy was so just fucking like out of his mind out of his mind or just stuck in this position uh basically she made him check every single batch to make sure it wasn't bad um and she said that way it would kill him before it could kill her friends

and neighbors she just wanted her meth to be safe so i guess that's good i don't know question mark yeah uh laurie and floyd at this point were moving enormous amounts of drugs throughout the midwest and laurie was essentially the mastermind behind the whole operation. Floyd, of course, being the muscle, as someone named Sin probably was born to do. People were loyal to Lori as a friend and downright terrified of her husband. So they made quite a pair. The combination of those two, someone who's you trust and who's a friend to you and then someone who is physically very scary, meant people were keeping their secrets on the deal. So they were able to hire their own friends as dealers, as distributors.

They were able to pay truck drivers to move meth across state lines without anybody snitching. And Lori's younger brother described it quote like people created the tech world in silicon valley my sister created the meth world wow she basically like kick-started this whole thing she at this point was so wealthy she could buy anything she wanted she owned tens of thousands of dollars in jewelry she bought land and this is all cash she has you know it's all in the walls of her house like she's not paying taxes on this i forgot there it's in the walls of her house yeah she bought land property cars she brought she bought several planes like airplanes yeah she kept making plans to set up some sort of legitimate business to leave the world of drugs but she was both addicted to meth and to the money and power she i would be addicted to

the money and power how could you not like yeah that's so so intoxicating intoxicating to turn from that to being like okay let's start a business from the ground floor and do everything by the book and pay taxes like no thanks i can see why that would be not appealing at all yeah so she lived like royalty especially in iowa this small town in iowa were people not wondering how she was doing that most people in town were involved like all their friends and family were like part of this you know i would literally the only reason not the only reason i wouldn't do this oh my god okay you got one reason go the only reason not the only reason I wouldn't do this. Oh, my God. Okay. You got one reason.

Go. The only reason in this minute is that I would not be able to sleep every second. I would be so paranoid that someone would snitch. I know. Like someone would say something to the wrong person. It's so impressive. And like to have such a broad operation, you must have people in such positions that they are benefiting by not telling. Yeah. Yeah. Like they must be benefiting enough to not say anything, especially all these truck drivers.

They're just hiring to cross state lines. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's really impressive. Like, you know, for lack of a better word. It's impressive that they were able to keep this racket going for so long. So she lived like royalty in public, but at home she was really struggling. Floyd was drinking more and more. He was becoming more and more violent. He had actually been a sniper in the Vietnam War. And one day he actually chased Lori out of the house with a gun while

she was holding their little son josh and he began to shoot at them and she was trying to get in the car and floyd shot at them with a rifle hitting the car twice laurie lied and yelled you hit josh just so he would stop shooting. Oh, my God. And she ran and hid with a friend for a few days, bringing Josh with her. But in the end, she went back to Floyd, who claimed he didn't remember the incident because he was so drunk. So, you know, just now we're in this classic abuse cycle. Oh. So that's when a little guy named ronald reagan became president and ronnie boy put some restrictions on purchasing p2p which is the chemical necessary to make meth and a new law

required people purchasing it to undergo screening and fill out paperwork proving they had a legitimate cause for buying this chemical uh-huhhuh. Okay. So now Lori is unable to continue making her own product. So they go back to trafficking drugs out of California into the Midwest. So they go back to having that kind of middleman. And in the meantime, the DEA,

she did not know this, but the DEA, for those who are unfamiliar, the Drug Enforcement Administration, was closing in on Loriurie she was running larger orders of meth across the country than they had ever seen so they were well aware that this was going on but they were actually just waiting to strike when they had enough uh evidence basically to put her behind bars now this might answer your question too as to like why nobody snitched her cousin was actually the chief of police and she had always been friendly with local officers who drank and smoked weed with her when she was underage. So she kind of assumed like, well, they're just kind of going to turn turn it on this, you know. But in reality, she did not know this. But local police were actually working with federal officers to take

laurie down so their goal was to charge her with continuing criminal enterprise and to charge someone with this you have to prove that she and floyd were supervising five or more individuals who were committing at least three criminal acts and making substantial income so they just had to prove that they had like this kind of uh operation running and like we said earlier the dea could not get anyone working for laurie or floyd to flip that's wild they were either like so loyal to laurie or so afraid of floyd sure they just had to wait until they could get enough proof. In January of 1991, federal agents finally raided Lori's and Floyd's home. They took three pounds of meth and $25,000 in cash, guns, photos, and papers, and then they left without making any arrests.

Basically, Lori and Floyd just laid low for a month, but then nothing happened. So they just got back to business. They were like, well. Well, that was crazy. That was a weird day. That was silly. That was a silly day. But eventually the DEA approached Lori and offered her a plea deal.

They told her they knew everything about her operation and they were closing in on her. But if she would work with them to get them information on the cartels that were sending drugs across the border to Mexico, it would guarantee her a light 10-year sentence. And Lori said, nope. She would not turn on anybody, not even the people out in California who were shipping the drugs. So she laid low again, and they heard nothing from the

feds and started to feel safe. So Lori and Floyd decided to go on a month. Well, I don't know if they decided to go, but they went on a month long party bender. OK, yeah. Maybe they made a decision to do a one day party bender. Exactly. Extended. Yeah, it kind of kept going. And so that lasted until November 7th of 1991. And federal agents ended up raiding their home while everyone was asleep, arresting Lori and Floyd at gunpoint. Ten-year-old Josh, this part makes me cry. Ten-year-old Josh was allowed to sit with Lori for an hour until his grandmother, Lori's birth mother, picked him up. grandmother laurie's birth mother picked him up and laurie tried her best to stay calm for 10 year old josh who sat behind his mom and gently brushed her hair until his grandma got there oh my god that's so sad he just brushed her hair and took care of her until her his grandma got

there laurie and floyd believed they they would get out on bonds and just go back to their normal lives i find this why this really delusional. They were maybe not totally in the sober mind. Sober, maybe not. But also like twice now, the feds have gotten involved and then just like let them be. So it's sort of like,

I don't know why they thought they'd get out on just bond, but whatever. That's what they really thought. They just didn't understand the gravity of the situation. Yeah. So 300 officers raided multiple locations in the area.

And in the end, 50 to 60 people in connection to Lori's operation ended up in jail. Holy shit. And many of jail was busy that night. Jail was busy. And many of these people were Lori's really close friends. So this is like a huge group of people in the meantime lori's brother tom now this is a fun little plot twist was living in hollywood as a successful actor writer and comedian do you know do you know the name tom arnold

by chance yeah yeah so that's her brother tom ar up. Wow. Imagine the really cringy, sad bits he could probably do about his sister. Oh, I know. I wonder if he ever touched on it. He went to rehab to quit drinking and doing drugs. And he'd actually been avoiding Lori this whole time because he was trying to stay sober. And obviously she was probably not the best influence. And once he was sober, he married his fiancee, Roseanne Barr. Shut the fuck up.

That's Tom Arnold's ex-wife now. So she and Tom actually arrived at Lori's hearing in a limousine with $400,000 in bail money. Damn. And the prosecutor appealed to deny bail and Loriurie and floyd had to stay in county jail awaiting their trial which took two years oh so the dea told laurie that if she went to trial she would face life in federal prison with no chance of parole so laurie pled guilty she was sentenced to 15 years in prison she only served nine in the end for a year laurie's birth mom was raising josh but unfortunately she died at only 52 years old and so josh who's already gone through so much uh was taken in by

laurie's dad and stepmom ruth who raised josh in a loving stable home which is that's good thank god the silver lining here josh grew up friendly active and sober which is great thank God, the silver lining here. Josh grew up friendly, active, and sober, which is great. Right, yeah, I can't imagine a bigger reason to not even go do that stuff. Agreed, agreed. And you can see it going both ways, you know, like if you're just exposed to it all the time, you can see it just becoming a normal part of your life.

But I'm really impressed that he was able to stay sober through all that. So when Lori was released from prison, she worked worked two jobs one at the meat packing plant which now was no longer owned by hormel and a night shift at wendy's uh but as you can imagine this was nothing like the money and power glitz and glam she used to have just buying planes and horses and doing whatever she wanted so she started dealing meth again again girl come on oh i really thought we were doing something different i know right the dea found out contacted her brother tom in hollywood said tom arnold can you please get laurie to stop tom tom i know you're busy i know you're busy with roseanne uh so basically

they said tom if you can get her to stop dealing then we won't bust her that's our deal oh oh man what a what a awful place to be put in yeah so tom says laurie you gotta you gotta stop or else you're going to prison and laurie said leave me alone okay so she was arrested and sentenced to another 12 years in prison and this time she served six years and the way she described it was the first time she went to prison she felt there was a purpose and sort of a second chance in her sentence but this time she only felt ashamed especially for letting down josh who was now in college and had been so thrilled when his mom got out of jail the first time and now she's back in so she feels like shit floyd died of a

heart attack in prison only six months before he was due to be released now after her second release uh laurie went to live with her younger brother scott for a few years until she met a man named bill they fell in love got engaged and moved to bill's home in sandusky ohio bill knows about laurie's notorious past of course in an interview he scoffed at the headlines that called laurie quote scarface in a skirt and he said god well I've never seen her in a skirt which is like the ultimate dad joke truly truly so despite her past he admired Lori's ambition and attitude they fell in love they got married a very sweet story uh in fact even the DEA agent responsible for taking down Lori's operation said she was a woman who could handle herself in any situation and she should have gone into a legal business where she would have been extremely successful.

Anything she did, it was going to be extremely successful. Totally agreed. I think no matter where she ended up, it was not going to be a bad run in terms of financial success. Not going to be a boring journey. Yeah, yeah. Or yeah, exactly. So in the wake of all that she did, Lori faces, unfortunately,

or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it, tremendous regrets. She, you know, told herself she was a local folk hero in the 80s, but now she realizes how many lives and families she destroyed, like,

throughout the Midwest. Many of her own friends children. This is sad. Started using meth that she supplied as young as 12 years old. And Lori's business robbed them of the same childhood she herself lost because of neglect. And so when the arrest happened an entire generation of children in her community lost their parents to prison. Like if you think like 50 to 60 people, just that that one one sweep of arrests, all those parents, children were now floundering. And so as a result of that, many of those children ended up in equally unstable, neglectful situations. And then the cycle continued with the drugs. neglectful situations and then the cycle continued with the drugs um laurie actually learned through a documentary about herself that some of her friends children and younger siblings have died

of overdoses so she had to learn that from a documentary about her life um after becoming and these deaths occurred after these children became addicted at young ages to meth that Lori and Floyd supplied their families. So just really, you know, big picture. She was kind of talking herself out of the bad parts. And then looking back, you know, hindsight is 2020. So children who grew up in the drug ring and are now adults remember being exposed to constant dangerous situations while their parents used and sold laurie's meth josh who still deeply loves his mother feels that he had to grow up too fast and that he was robbed of many opportunities especially of his own parents when they made decisions that sent them to prison for the rest of his childhood and he basically had

to be like passed around as of a 2021 documentary called the queen of meth laurie was still living in sandusky with bill she works 10 hour shifts at a factory as a forklift operator and she said she is now sober for good and that she can't undo the past but she can learn from it so in the documentary you can actually see actually see Laurie and her older brother, Tom, visit their mother's grave. Tom told Laurie in the documentary he wished she would be mad at their mom and acknowledge that she ruined Laurie's life. But Laurie said she harbored no resentment toward her mother. She believes she made all of her own decisions and caused so much harm that she has only herself to blame. own decisions and cause so much harm that she has only herself to blame and as for her son today josh only hopes that by living a good loving sober and honest life he can change the way people think

of his family name and he says one day maybe no one will associate him with the crimes of his parents right i don't think anyone does yeah i think that's already a success i think uh i mean i'm sure some people do in his circles but i don't from over here i don't he's good yeah you're good you're good uh so yeah that's the story isn't that a crazy one yeah i did not expect rosanne to show up i know it's such a plot i love when there's just these weird mini plot twists that like don't really mean anything but are just interesting yeah it's just like weird mini plot twists that like don't really mean anything, but are just interesting. Yeah. It's just like, oh, fun fact, by the way.

Fun fact. Wow. That's wild. Yeah. And it sounds like she's got it together now. Yeah. It sounds like she's really turned things around. And, you know, to be the son of the queen of meth and sin of the motorcycle gang i imagine is quite a childhood like i don't know if he's interested in writing a memoir but i'd probably read it i feel like his

therapist every week tells him we're gonna unpack that next week we're gonna yeah there's a lot there yeah it's gonna be a while so oh my gosh yeah i'm just really happy for them. And, you know, you live and you learn. And that's why we drink this week. That's pretty good. I feel like we could have just ended, but we didn't. So, well, thank you, everyone, for listening. And, Christine, you're about to go on your trip. I'm not going to see you again until. I know.

Until you come back. I talked to my brother yesterday. He's like, see you in Munich. And I was like, oh, my God. oh my god oh my god yeah so trippy and your little baby's gonna have a passport oh she does it's so funny because in the photo we had to like get our hands out of it so it's like her kind of just floating head oh well i'm excited for you i'll i'll you. I mean, everyone else is going to hear you just next week, but I'll see you in quite some time. In quite some time.

And folks, come to Patreon. We are doing little true crime and ghost themed episodes there now. Bonus episodes where we talk about true crime cases, ghost. Spooky stuff. Spooky news. We're trying to make it more themed to the podcast. So come there for extra bonus content. And that's why we drink.

We did it.