And That's Why We Drink - E349 A Haunted Podcast Studio and a Space Boat

Episode Date: October 15, 2023

It's 8pm, do you know where your important documents are?? It's also episode 349 and we might have just caught Christine bench pressing a bus! This week Em takes us under cover for a 101 entry level class on Project Blue Book. Then Christine covers the tragic disappearance of Susan Wolff. And could we be any bigger fans of kitchen witches? ...and that's why we drink!

Hello, everybody. Just like a quick little message out to the world that in this episode, I, can you believe it, do math wrong. What? It's true. And where I divide 700 by 12,600, I keep saying 0.06%. And I say it like way too much to not address the fact that that's the wrong number. I forgot to move decimals around. It's supposed to be 6%, not 0.06. So anyway, I usually wouldn't even feel the need to say this or say anything. But I really I say the number so much that it needs to be it needs to be corrected. Anyway i don't know do what you will with that have a good day drink some water you filthy little rats oh christine what i don't know i just wanted to beat you to to finally saying something and

then i didn't i didn't even come up with a witty thing i stayed quiet i gave you the opportunity because um i feel like i always start off but uh you did great um your first time starting off the podcast well first time ever well here i go um complimenting you again publicly about your outfit i don't know what it is so silly i'm literally in like a two dollar tank top it's because i never wear tank tops every time i wear a tank top emma's like whoa i don't know why because my broad shoulders are on display as my mother always told me oh i don't think you have broad shoulders but i i and I don't know why because I'm not like tank tops aren't like a thing for me but like I think because you do look different that I just noticed difference I think maybe that's what it is I also took a shower and

forgot to take my hair out of this towel thing so you know and was like oh looks like an exercise day I was like no it's the opposite it's I managed to shower and that's all've done. You could tell me you just ran like 10 miles and I'd believe you. I did. I did do that. I forgot to mention I did run 11 miles. Yeah, and you bench pressed a bus. So obviously. Yeah, I didn't know you knew that.

I watched. You did? No wonder you're all worked up. I'd be too. If you had bench pressed a bus, I'd marry you on the spot. Hey, well, all right. Cool. No, also you have like a nice all-around glow you've got a little tan going on oh thank you i uh put oil

all over my face because my skin is dry um this is the week of leona's birthday which is why i drink so i am my like in-laws are coming in tomorrow um Leona's been really sick but she's better now then her teacher got sick she had roseola and blaze's first comment was like we need to get m over here to like continue m's like list of childhood vaccinations I never had roseola so I mean you might have it's like very common in little kids i mean it's just another like fever thing um but yeah so she had that it's what she's fine now but oh my god it's been crazy and then the wet or the it's my brother's birthday friday we're going to a wedding saturday leona's birthday sunday we have like 65 people coming for the birthday.

It's going to be a lot. Oh, my God. It's OK. I'm just trying to breathe. So anyway, how are you? Better than you. Well, I have been doing a lot of extra cleaning because we have friends, I guess, house-sitting. But it was like they're not – they needed a place to crash and neither of us are going to be here. So we just – we're lending them our apartment. Oh, Matt and Chanel? Yeah. Oh, nice.

Matt and Chanel. Christine only knows that because I accidentally texted her into a group chat with – I was thrilled. I was like, hey, guys, I'm just watching you make plans. I realized it was the wrong group chat. So it felt like I was like a fly on the wall, you know? Yeah. Well, I, uh, I ended up like, I ended up deciding that if they're going to stay with us, then

like I have to clean the entire place. Right. And so I've just been like kind of running around. It's like I'm doing an intense clean because I apparently turned into my mother where everything has to be like, like very clean. Have you seen that? This is I hate, you know, people hate when I do this or when people do this. But that TikTok where it's like my mom, when people are coming over and she's like, who's coming over? Like the house is a disaster.

And then the friend comes over and walks in and it's like, what the fuck? Yeah, I know. What the fuck? And like freaks out. It's like, is this dust on the stairs? You haven't taken your trash out? And the mom's like, I'm sorry. I told you.

This is what moms literally think is gonna happen if you invite a friend over and i don't know why my brain is like that because chanel has already like like stayed multiple nights here before and they've both been here for parties like such a real thing though like to feel like you need to make it pristine for people like they've seen it it's like it's your home. Well, and Sherry is sleeping up here in the podcast studio, the haunted one. And so I've had to

like, as you know, there's like a bed in that closet. And so I try to make it really cozy. I bought like a headboard and pillows and so I'm trying to make it nice. But like also I work up here, so it's just kind of a shit show. I had to move my THC sodas out of the here so it's just kind of a shit show i had to move my my thc sodas out of the fridge so she's not like accidentally drinking one at night instead of a la croix i'm

trying to make it nice but yeah it is like a constant i think i'm also i think i'm more stressed because both of them will be here without me like supervising what they're looking at and not that i think they're like snoopy but i feel like right but if they're like oh i wonder where this is and open the wrong cabinet or yeah i get you i get you i i will say also um matt is one of the people who actually notices things nobody else notices like i had i had a housewarming party and instead of complimenting anything i actually really really tried on he came up to me and was like, oh, I really love how you did the wiring of like, I love how you like organized your cords. And I'm like, okay, that's a big deal, though. I noticed that too. Which is why I'm thing for me, which is why I'm like, I have to wipe down the cords. Like, I'm like,

he's been dying to see those cords again. I know it. I know. So anyway, I'm like, I cords he's he's been dying to see those cords again i know it i know so anyway i'm like i know he's gonna notice the organization so i feel you anyway that i guess that's why i drink but i'm also traveling um back to the east coast again i'm like a little tired of it but oh my god yeah what are you doing on the east coast now um allison's sister is getting married oh fun or she already got married but we're all like all getting together for like a family party oh i didn't know how fun yeah congrats carrie i hope she doesn't mind shout outs i don't even her in years actually she would love a shout out because when we had our charlotte show allison's whole family came to the show and i guess carrie was standing in line to

like get a t-shirt and she overheard two people in the audience talking about allison and they were like they said something about like oh and allison like maybe allison's whole family's here and they were like trying to think if they knew allison's family and they said i think she has a brother but i think she only has a brother and then carrie was like shut the fuck up oh my god no Allison has two siblings they're both lovely and um shout out Carrie only yeah only yeah I know she was like I think she was like I wanted to like stop them and tell them that I'm the sister but like I don't they would be like no you're not you liar but so she actually she told me backstage after the show can you like somehow slip in that like Allison has a sister

so here you are that was really smooth I I sort of forced that one I was like where are you going why you're welcome Carrie that was me okay you're're welcome, Carrie. Anyway, I guess that's why I drink. I'm just aware of my stuff going on, and that's it. You are aware of it. That's good. Yeah, thank you. At least someone is. Now we are, too. I've got myself a story for you, Christine.

um i've got myself a story for you christine um shall we crack into it we shall and you know what you know how i just opened a liquid death uh earlier before we even had i just needed to i needed something to drink um i'm gonna open this one now which is my little thc soda since i'm trying to remove them i'm just doing sherry a favor and drinking them before she gets here oh you generous soul i know thank you so much for noticing what a martyr yeah it only has like dealt i know that's what i say about myself all the time um it only has you see my light freaking out all of a sudden oh and now it's fine oh i hated that i did not see it i looked away at the wrong time sorry keep keep going i i want to ignore whatever that was cool me too um it has

five milligrams of thc but it's like delta eight so it's like the legal mild stuff so i'm gonna be drinking this throughout the show everyone and so don't it don't be alarmed if I suddenly seem real amused. All right. That's a fun game. We'll all keep track now of Christine's woo-woo levels. On Beach Too Sandy sometimes, I will not be drinking anything abnormal. And people will be like, wow, Christine definitely got high this episode. And I'm like, no, I didn't. So I feel like it's hard to tell. I don't know.

Do you remember the first few episodes of And That's Why I Drink when people kept thinking we must be getting stoned before we talk? And I was like, like, I've literally never done that. They're like, Christine is wasted. M must be stony baloney. There is no way these two bozos are sober. And you totally were i was making up for it but you were totally stone just being a silly goose that's all yeah that's true all right so i have um my notes did not go as planned oh my god see my light's doing it what is that what light is that i just have a. Ah! It looks like you're in a prism.

Like in a discotheque. Ah! Yeah, I just had a little light pointed on me because otherwise it's too dark on my face. It's like disco light now. Freaking out. Okay, so I have notes that did

not go as planned. I expected to go really in depth with it and it was going to be like this huge deep dive but go figure all of it was like pretty classified go figure um and some of it is released to the public but they didn't like really help with the notes so i wanted to this the topic the topic is um project blue book yes oh shut up i was hoping you'd say that but i always i wanted it to be more like let me tell you about the experiments and let me tell you about the nitty gritties and right but it it kind of just turned into like um i don't know it just didn't go as planned i thought i was going to be doing more of a tell-all and nothing nothing i found really told all you know and so um this

this is kind of cool though then you can do like an introductory chapter one or like 101 on blue project blue book and then like in a few years or something we can do like now the deep dive we've all been waiting for now that we've graduated from 101 yes I agree I think this is that's a perfect way to put this is 101 and then if I can find my way into a deep dive I don't even have 101 knowledge so like I need 101 first I feel like before a deep dive anyway you're so good at hyping me up when I'm like feeling blue by just like insulting my own intelligence that's what I do no i felt so bad because i i really wanted this to be like q anon let me tell you like every single thing they did

and found and like i want i expect to be like a two-parter and you know i'll be honest i feel like it will be nice for everyone to have a one-on-one for like first you know to just get because most of us probably don't know eas Easing you in. Even the beginning of it. Okay. Thank you, Christine. I appreciate that. You're so welcome. So, okay. Project Blue Book. It was the code name for the 1952 Air Force program looking into UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Oh, I wish I had the button. I don't, I don't, I wish I installed that on our machine so we could just start pressing that more often. So did you know, I did not know this.

I thought this was super fun. And this will be an episode that I cover. I literally, the way you said that, I thought you were about to say, and this will be on the test. I was like, oh no this will be and i was like shit i don't have a pencil can i borrow a pen that was me can i borrow a pen can i borrow a paper i literally i didn't bring anything to school i forgot everything at home me either how on earth did i go through i never ever had a pen ever and even if i brought a pen to class, I'd probably throw it in the trash

just so I get to be like, can I have a pen? Oops. And then somebody would be like, can I have my pen back? And I'm like, I don't have your pen. And they're like, I literally gave you seven last week. And I'm like, well, I'm sorry, they're gone. I don't know what you gave me a pen. That was your fault. Also, can I tell you one thing really quickly? I'm sorry, it's such a sidebar, but I totally meant to mention it as the reason I drink and I totally forgot. And it's that I was at the Bengals game yesterday, who day they won. And I brought my dad and I was with Blaze and my sister and uh I ordered a Bud Light and I had I hadn't I was gonna say I'd forgotten to tell Blaze it wasn't that I'd forgotten I didn't want to tell Blaze that I had lost my driver's license while he was out of town

and I can't I can't find it. It's been like two weeks. It's on the ground somewhere at a bar. So it's literally on the ground, not even at a bar. It's like probably at a Michael's craft store or like somewhere so boring and stupid. And I was like, I'm so embarrassed to tell him. So I brought my passport. I've been carrying my passport around for two weeks to be like, oh, in case I need an ID. And so I was at the stadium and I was like, I'm going to order a Bud Light because I'm feeling a little wild and crazy. So I ordered a Bud Light and they're like, can I see an ID? And I was like, of course. I opened my passport. No, it's Leona's passport.

Oh, my God. I literally just hold it up and they're like, that's a baby. And you're like, oh, my God, I look so young. I was like, thank you. That's a baby who's not even two. And I was like, oh my Lord. And I was so mortified. And then Blaze is like, why are you carrying that around? I was like, oh, I just grabbed it by accident. He's like, well, then show your driver's license. I was like, I don't know. It's somewhere in the world. Anyway, so then I had to make Blaze buy me my beer, which was very embarrassing. And I basically whipped out the passport. And literally when she looked at me and said, that's a baby, I was like, what are you talking about? So I basically have been carrying around my infant, my toddler daughter's passport as a form of official government identification for two weeks. passport as a form of official government identification for two weeks um i forget why i mentioned this you were saying something oh about losing my pens this is just like kind of like blaze was so frustrated but like he was like i'm not mad at you and i'm like i know

you're just mad at life when we were younger and even before that more like the in the 80s there was that uh that psa that came on at 10 o'clock every night to be like, where are your children? Where are your children? On the floor somewhere in a Michael's craft store, probably. You definitely, we need to bring that back just so we can be like, where are your important documents? Where is your driver's license? Where is your birth certificate right now? I mean, it's so like, and the fact that I, thank God I found out like in such a low stakes environment. Like imagine if I was out and I needed an ID, like I got pulled over or something and I'm like, oh, well, I mean,

I guess I need to have my driver's license for that event anyway. So you know what? Let's not think about it. That's what I do. I compartmentalize. Do you still don't have your ID? No, I have no idea where it is, but don tell blaze yet because i will find it eventually i think it really will come up in a way where you like people are talking

around you and you'd spot it and you can't even rejoice you're just gonna have to act like you always knew it was right there and then put it back in your pocket maybe i'll go back to the craft store i swear it's probably there i don't know honestly at this point i don't know how i mean wow this could get so bad so quickly about like government surveillance but like how are there not like like tags or something a little geo tag on it i need to like tape one to it maybe that's probably insane you need to put like an air tag tape to your id i think i do um i think that's a good idea i'm gonna do that and you know people would say put

it in your wallet well i do have an air tag in my wallet my wallet's here my idea is gone so you know what that didn't help me any um anyway i'm so sorry to just barge in with my stupid story but um it's okay while we're while we're barging it's literally people like oh my god we got one bullet in but i keep wanting i keep wanting us to say this and we keep fucking forgetting what we should catch people up on where we are with the tour oh yeah only because people have not said anything we haven't said anything and now it's fucking october oopsie okay so uh i only want to bring it up just because people have to be wondering what's going on. Um, cause we said we would be having fall dates and again, it's fall and we're not

touring. Um, so we had, uh, a bit of a miscommunication when it came to like figuring out venues and stuff like that. And it, things just didn't work out. Things just didn't work out in time. So we are going back out on tour, but we're going back out on tour in the spring. So we're taking a hiatus for the fall and yes, but we are still doing the same content. Otherwise we would have announced to you guys like the location and how it went and like talked about the tour more. Right. But we're keeping it under wraps still for, for the shows that haven't seen it yet. Exactly. So we're only halfway through our tour.

We're just taking a very big break in between. But not as big as COVID. That's right. So you're not allowed to complain. So we will be back in spring, which it will be, you know, wide range between January and probably May. And we don't even know what cities yet. So we're still waiting on the information. And this is as we approach October.

So yeah, we'll be releasing that as soon as we have it. We just haven't gotten it yet. And also just in case you are missing us so much, Alexander and I will be in Pittsburgh and Nashville on November 8th and 9th. So if you want to come see us, you can. Boom, boom, bang, bang, boom. Okay.

I've been wanting to say it for like easily the last 10 episodes and then i always remember after we record so i never remember anyway sorry to everyone who's been like wondering what's going on but you have deserved a psa for quite some time yes yes that's true hey christine i've got a story for you it's called project blue book um oh cool should we do is it a deep dive? No, I'm just kidding. You don't have to explain all that again. Okay.

The first and last bullet I left you on was that it's a code name for the Air Force, an Air Force program in 1952 that was looking into UFOs and extraterrestrial life. Right, right. Fun fact, because it didn't even occur to me, extraterrestrial life right right fun fact because it didn't even occur to me uh people since the late 1800s have been claiming to see ufos oh probably earlier but it's been documented around in the u.s at least since the late 1800s cool um which before 1950 like it doesn't even occur to me they would have known what what like, you know what I mean? Like it blows my mind.

Yeah. It's interesting, too, because I feel like back in the 1800s, it would have been a lot. Like there's no such thing as like a plane or a helicopter in the sky. Like so the lights must have been very alarming back then. Which is why they at the time called them airships because they literally thought they were flying ships like ocean ships oh my god i never even thought about that weird but yeah they like didn't know really any other vehicles so they were like it's it's a ship in the air sure of course which that blew my mind too i'm like it's so funny how language works where it's like they

were so limited to only knowing one thing. Yeah, you use what you know. Exactly. Oh, that's pretty genius, Em. Wow. So this is something that if I can find enough notes on will be what I cover next week. But I found out then in 1896 and 1897, there was actually a mass hysteria throughout the country because a bunch of people started reporting strange lights in the air, mysterious crafts and cigar shaped flying boats. Oh, my God. There was a whole. It means I might be covering it. So, yeah, a good story from.

So that was in the 1890s and what's interesting about it is people really didn't know what to do about it and they weren't even thinking about aliens because my first thought if i see a ufo is alien but they were just seeing flying boats and were just amazed by the technology it didn't even occur to them that it would be you know extraterrestrial life different planet right right like yeah like aliens didn't even occur to them that it would be you know extraterrestrial life different planet right right like yeah like aliens wasn't even on their mind it was just how was something flying yeah um so people were seeing the crafts but not necessarily connecting them to aliens um but i'll if i can find a lot of information on that i'll cover it next week so in 1947 here's another fun fact

for you there was a pilot named kenneth arnold and he was flying a plane near mount rainier in washington and all of a sudden he saw nine objects fly between mountain peaks at impossible speeds he he estimated that they were flying at at least a thousand miles an hour and my lord something very very impossible in 1947 yeah and he reported it and told the media and when he was talking to the media he said they flew like a saucer would if you were skipping it across or across water interesting and the media ran with that and that is how how we got Flying Saucer. Oh, shit. I didn't even see it coming. I'm such an idiot. Whoa.

And so he actually later reported that, like, he doesn't, like, he didn't mean to say it looked like a flying saucer. It was just it flew like a saucer if you, like, frisbeed it, essentially. Yeah. If you like frisbee'd it essentially. Yeah. It's interesting how that would stick and like just that one turn of phrase would become the entire concept. Yeah. Wow. And apparently he had when he said it, it was at the beginning of like the mass UFO hysteria of the 1950s.

the 1950s and so by the time he talked about it in the media six weeks later 90 of americans had heard the term flying saucer holy shit isn't that crazy that's crazy i didn't realize that was such a big and to think only like 60 70 years later all of, 90% of Americans would hear that like UFOs are real and none of us would give a shit. Yeah, from the government. Yeah. And be like, oh, okay. Anyway, next. Exactly. It's like, okay.

So after his report, UFOs, especially flying saucers, those sightings exploded. This is where we get the modern idea of aliens taking off. And the concept of UFOs is now so big in the world at this time that people are starting fan clubs and investigative journals and search teams. So this is the UFO craze when we start seeing all this stuff. And in 1947, it was also the time that it was the start of the cold war world war ii had just ended and ideas of like these big massive scary nuclear weapons like a bombs were you know sputnik they were hot topics yeah so many people believed that ufos were not related to aliens but they

were actually military crafts or they were soviet spies i was gonna say there was so much talk about spies too and like not trusting people so yeah that makes sense yeah it was like definitely um a time where there was a lot of new technology and i don't think people were immediately thinking aliens they were just thinking right this is government military equipment that is so advanced and we've classified and yeah yeah yeah so um plenty of people thought it could be aliens and a lot of people thought it could be aliens and the military like collabing together. Like they felt like global militaries working with aliens who had like more advanced technology. And so there was a lot of which side are the aliens on?

Are they on our side? Exactly. So there was a lot of distrust and a lot of fear and a lot of awareness that technology was you know exploding i mean in 1947 a lot of people who were living at that time lived in a time before cars and now all of a sudden there are things flying in the fucking air and there's fair point they've seen quite a jump technology wise and you know so yeah i think they're just like, things are booming and I don't know which way is up. So many U.S. leaders were also really worried because they didn't know what was out there. They knew what we were capable of, but for all they knew, the Soviet spies had something else. was kind of overlapped with you know the distrust in the military or fear for you know the cold war um the military made plans to officially investigate ufo sightings because a lot of the leaders didn't even know what was going right so in 1948 it didn't start as project blue book

it started as project sign s-i-g-n sign okay and it was launched uh in near dayton ohio at the right patterson air force base that's where my mommy works at that air force base yeah right state university is like on well it's like affiliated so um a lot of military yeah and it listen it just adds to how weird ohio is all the there's a lot of sightings up in dayton by the uh right pat really for space yeah right pat oh right pat yeah right pat go uh oh shit go uh go planes go orville go aliens what are they called oh no i'm like this is so bad my brother and my sister and my mom all went there uh oh the raiders rowdy raiders go raiders rowdy raiders i love the i love the word rowdy i do too it's a good one it's a good one some words just just roll right out of your work you know rowdy raiders that's fun that's right oh so

so in um so they created project sign in 1948 and in the and it was to investigate like all these sightings that people were seeing like are they aliens is it military we don't know about like what's the deal and in the end project sign didn't actually find any compelling evidence that it was extraterrestrials um piloting ufos but a year later project sign evolved into a different project called project grudge oh that's scary and i wonder how they pick the names yeah what the fuck explain yourself please it's gotta be like when you when you name like hurricanes how there's like an order to it scary and i wonder how they pick the names yeah what the fuck explain yourself please it's gotta be like when you when you name like hurricanes how there's like an order to it the alphabetical yeah so i wonder like are you know and also hurricanes when they're alphabetical

why do they only pick a certain name like okay we've got e and they just like they just like pick a random e-name or is there like a like a certified E name you have to rock with? I don't know. But I think they're supposed to switch the quote unquote gender of the name. Isn't that true? I think so. It's boy, girl, boy, girl, boy, girl. Yeah.

I think. Okay. Patriarchy. So heteronormative, these fucking hurricanes. Honestly, it's actually pretty feminist. It's very equal. I'm offended. Oh. I mean, I'll still be offended.

That's fine. This is easier. Yeah, okay, you're right. I'm mad. Yeah, you're right. I'm mad. So in 1949, sign evolved into grudge, which does feel more masculine. yeah what the fuck but it once again found no compelling evidence of any extraterrestrials and so the project kind of ended

in 1951 but then the next year sign and grudge would both become project blue book which is now the longest running and best known um best known publicized now yeah um you know investigation into ufos and project blue book was officially active between 1940 or no 1952 to 1969 so that's what 17 years and it was headed by air force captain edward j ruppelt and the astronomer i always i don't know why i always mess up his name but it always throws me off dr j alan hynek um he is a he he's known he's i've been talked i've talked about him a lot in other stories either ufos i think he actually like also jumped on the mothman train um but he was a ufo research consultant to the air force at this time and he became the lead scientist on project blue book so he's like the man when it comes to

you know aliens ufos all that good stuff space boats space boats and dr hynek worked for ohio state he worked for uh john hopkins h i can do all the i can do all the fun what's ohio state's um i o oh i o buckeyes baby all right of the rowdy buck i'm not sir i'm not really an ohio state fan i my renee went to their law school but that's my that my affiliation ends there oh okay before anybody's like how dare you uh people take this shit seriously do you have a do you have a team you like or is it the rowdy raiders i gotta say it's probably the route i listen i love the louisville no the that's not even the right town i love the the y'alls the florence y'alls oh i love the floren, that's my team. Let's leave it at that.

Have you been to any of their games? I haven't, but I really want to. It always conflicted with bedtime, but I think like next summer we'll be able to go finally. It'd be fun. Leona would have a great time. That's what I'm thinking. They have a lot of family nights and stuff. Oh, imagine her with like a little, like a bunch of ketchup and mustard all over her

face from a hot dog. Oh, I don't need to imagine that that's the daily occurrence okay but for me it's glamorized and i'm like oh wow i would love to go to florence y'all's game with her and we'll go we'll have matching jerseys we'll match that can be like your guys's activity you know yeah every time funko lamb comes to town we go to florence y'all's game that's so fun yeah and they'll both have ketchup and mustard all over our faces it'd be great that'll be adorable for me not it'd be so fun and then i'd be like you have to wipe my face too i know i was gonna say i'll wash both your faces okay um where were we where were we? Oh, Dr. Heineck. He works for Ohio State. He worked for John Hopkins.

He worked at the Harvard College Observatory and the Navy and the Air Force. So he was quite an academic. And he was famously responsible for the Heineck scale, which we talked about in past episodes. scale which we talked about in past episodes but it's um he was also the the one who by the way he thought that ufo craze would die out like hula hoops do you remember us talking about that that's right yes i absolutely do because we went of course on the craziest tangent about that yes yes yes so um quick review on the hynek scale it is uh the list of different types of close encounters. So it's. Do you want me to tell you what they are? You want to guess what they are?

Sure. I know. Yeah. You tell me. The close encounter of the first kind. Do you know what that is? First kind is just seeing a UFO, right? Wow.

You're so smart with your big fat brain. Look at that. Do you like that? I tilt my head like a dog. I'm like like did i do it right so yes the first the encounter a close encounter of the first kind is seeing a ufo at five to six hundred feet away or less okay um so that's all that's scary enough five to six hundred feet away that seems a lot yeah i really certainly too close. So it's because at that range, the witness can make out considerable details.

A close encounter of the second kind. Do you know what that is? Is that seeing an extraterrestrial? No, in the middle. It's when there's an alleged presence. So like they can there's signs that something was there. So scorch marks like an aircraft was. Or raised radiation levels, malfunctioning electronics, animals acting weird, us feeling weird. And then the third encounter is when you actually see an entity.

So that can be either someone piloting the UFO or making physical contact with them. And then later they added on the fourth kind which was abductions they're like i guess we need one more step which is the worst of all isn't that wild though that when the scale first came out didn't even occur to them that something would take us oh so scary you know the first time someone got taken they were like oh shit let's like what kind is this you didn't warn me about this. Our scale is not made for that. Three and a half?

Right. So Dr. Hynek was actually a noted skeptic, and he aimed to evaluate the cases with an open mind. But I think he went and teach them probably trying to debunk it. And by this time, there were many more public panics about UFOs. This is still in. What year is this? I think this is 52 ish. It's like Cold War times. Yeah. There's still a lot of public panics for like probably the last five years now about UFOs. And the Air Force started having like hold press conferences that like everything's good it's not an alien like everyone stopped freaking the fuck out but that's helpful stop freaking out it's not aliens we're just studying it in the background don't worry about it yeah and so at the same time

they're like it's not aliens from project sign they said there's no sign of extraterrestrials project grudge said there's no sign of extraterrestrials but even then as like government intel they're like okay so if it's not extraterrestrials what the fuck is it yeah and so they're trying to calm people down about aliens while also being very scared that it's something like not american and freaking people out and this is during the cold war and so the director of air force intelligence he said that um he said that almost every sighting had been explained. This was during a press conference. He said that almost every sighting has been explained, and the ones that haven't been explained, the Air Force is looking into. And he said,

some sightings were, quote, made by credible observers to relatively incredible things. It is this group of observations that we are now attempting to resolve so he was at least saying like there are things that we can't explain we'll acknowledge that okay but we are looking nice to you thank you that's so nice um at the same time he was saying it's uh he said it's not alien or it's not you know it's not you know intergalactic um but we don't know what it is and then he also told the nation that uh none of the sightings seemingly posed a threat so like we should be fine but also they weren't quote connected to any secret development by any agency of the united states so he was like i, I would like to say it's a government thing and we can't talk about it, but even we don't know what's going on.

Oh, no, that's not comforting. Sorry. Yeah, so it's like comforting in one way where he's like, don't worry, it's not this thing, but also it could be this thing. But also we're a little scared too. It's like, we don't want to know that. Yeah, and during the height of like the Cold War, so like everyone's freaking out. And at this point, the military seemed less interested in figuring out aliens. And they were more interested in like, what the hell are these machines up in the sky? So more than aliens, the CIA was worried about the Soviet Union. And not only that, but they were worried that the Soviet Union was going to use this UFO hysteria to their advantage and like use that as a tactic to to get us so they thought that the soviet union would um use the many reports like citing reports to induce mass hysteria and

like spread propaganda oh geez and they were also scared that the soviet intelligence might actually uh overwhelm their air warning systems with false ufo reports to distract the military from an actual aerial attack oh shit so they're like this is a weakness now in wartime yeah they're like they're just going to they're going to be calling in so many ufo sightings even if they're fake just to like distract us when there's like they're actually flying in their own planes and we won't hear about it right right right and it became a matter of national security to end this ufo craze um and by the way the ufo craze is sometimes called the saucer era which i love oh um i learned that too and i was like how that how saucy it is saucy i

almost said that i was like christine shut up so i'm glad you said it so the goal in investigating ufo sightings officially became not trying to find aliens but to debunk them and to end america's fascination with them so that way the soviet union intelligence couldn't use it against us interesting okay that's why i said that the notes changed because i was expecting to do this whole tell-all and it ended up being me finding out that project blue book wasn't all about aliens like i wanted it to be right it was more about russia yeah um and so it uh yeah it changed so after debunk, they haven't debunked yet, but the goal of Project Blue Book became trying to debunk these UFO sightings in general, not just as aliens, but debunk what they are. away any future sightings so that way instead of calling in about it to keep the the airwaves clear they could just know enough about airships to be able to determine if it was really a ufo they saw

oh okay i got you so according to declassified cia documents the uh propaganda campaign involved quote using the mass media advertising business clubs schools and even even the disney corporation to get the message across now that sounds very dystopian like we had to bring disney on board walt disney was probably like oh my god like i'm so important look how special i am that the government gets my time to shine baby so like i wonder with the communists that means at some point did like the c come to like fucking Disneyland and like talk to him about animating planes more. Like I wonder if we go back and look at that. There's a shift in the animation.

Interesting. I don't know. Oh, I like that thought, though. But I mean, hey, they were trying to do mass media to teach everybody about aircrafts and natural phenomena. So but also I don't. Yeah, I don't know. So it was also recommended that civilian UFO organizations should be watched closely because of their ability to influence people on their own with their own theories. So this is when they try to make people sound crazy for.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Gas lady. Truly. own with their own theories so this is when they try to make people sound crazy for yes yes yeah yeah gas lady truly the goal was to undermine any ufo research until the public became so over ufos and that they thought that ufos were nothing but like nonsense oh my god that's so rude so like even these like really intense civilian organizations who are trying really, really hard and like makes me off and maybe are even on like the brink of discovering something. They're like being either shut down or like like some other competitive propaganda is coming out like rival propaganda to say otherwise. coming out like rival propaganda to like say otherwise so i understand what they were trying to do because it was a national security threat but also like there are people that they're actually trying to study this and now you've just shut all of it down yeah and now you make them all look crazy and it's going to take decades for people to take them seriously again and so as blue book continued the cia's interest in u UFOs started to fade and officials were trying to pass off their responsibility to other departments because I guess their propaganda worked and people started not caring as much.

And so they were like, well, now it's not of utmost importance. so however in 1956 the former head of project blue book that captain edward rippelt he published the report on unidentified flying objects and in this report on ufos edward references the estimate of the situation which is this we've the only person who's ever talked about it and has claimed to see it is this guy. Okay. But the estimate of the situation is this alleged official report on the findings of that very early Project Sign, in which they actually found that extraterrestrials are real, and they just covered it up. Oh, okay. So when Project Sign originally came out and then they announced publicly like, oh, we haven't found anything that says anything about extraterrestrials and it almost disbanded and then it got restarted to be Grudge and Grudge also didn't find anything.

He's now saying that there's a section called the there's this report called the estimate of the situation that says that was a total lie and they just covered it up and extraterrestrials are very real um and according to his book higher-ups condemned the report and ordered all copies go to the incinerator to destroy it and then to publicly announce that extraterrestrials were not found during project sign what the fuck to day, there's no evidence of the estimate of the situation beyond Edward's claims. So we'll never know. But he was like in charge of Project Blue Book. Man, I wish he had just like kept one, stuffed it down his pants and was like, yep, incinerator. I know. I would just wish.

incinerator i know i just like i would i would just wish i wonder how many times though someone in the government has tried to do that to be like a whistleblower and it like it's got found out like i mean it must be a really scary thing to try and pull off yeah i mean i'm sure like if you had that kind of information and you like strapped one to your like your thigh or something and then tried walking away they'd probably kill you be like you're you're a national threat to security you're a threat now yeah oh geez so uh to this day there is no evidence of the estimate of the situation however the book ignited major controversy and demands for the military to declassify any ufo investigations they've done and the public pressure got so intense that even the FBI started investigating reporters. And in 1966, the Air Force announced that it was forming a contract to create an official investigative report,

which would be available to the public. So and this was they worked with the University of Colorado, who took what is today a three million dollar contract with the Air Force to conduct an 18 month long study of flying saucer reports. Whoa. OK. Physicist Dr. Edward Condon headed the program and he was saying that the he said that the existence of flying saucers are improbable, but not impossible. So he was very interested in being a part of this. And in 1969, the program ended up releasing what their findings and their findings were called the Scientific Studies of Unidentified Flying Objects. objects but because dr edward condon was in charge of all of this that uh same report the scientific studies of identified flying objects is also known as the condon report ah okay i have heard of that yeah i think we talked about that a couple episodes ago yeah you've mentioned that i think

and so the condon report is you'll this will jog your memory it was almost 15 000 pages long that's yep i already remember i'm like what the fuck and it had 37 contributing scientists and the whole thing covered five categories which what's that 3 000 pages each that's crazy these are the categories that are covered. Old UFO reports from before 1966, new reports since 1966, photographic cases, radar and visual cases, and then UFOs reported by astronauts.

Oh, interesting. Okay. And Condon himself stated that 21 years of investigation had produced no conclusive evidence of extraterrestrials and no further research was needed. I call bullshit. I call bullshit, too. It was like, yeah, oh, who are you? Project Sign? Okay. Oh, who are you? 15,000 pages?

Can you imagine writing 15,000 pages and not a single lick of that being evidence of extraterrestrials? Some dumbass on a podcast is like, I don't believe any of your 15,000 pages. I know. So take that. All the hard work you put into it, I don't want to acknowledge any of it. You're wrong. I'm such an ass. I know.

You're wrong. I'm such an ass. I know. So there's a special panel that formed by the National Academy of Sciences, and they reviewed the report and declared, quote, On the basis of present knowledge, the least likely explanation of UFOs is a hypothesis of extraterrestrial visitations of intelligent beings. So they sided with the condon committee and uh both of them the condon committee and the national academy of sciences both recommended pulling the plug on further investigations i feel like because i'm apparently a conspiracy theorist and all this i feel like someone held a gun to their head and said you close this fucking investigation down and don't let anyone know that's exactly right i'm i guarantee it i i you know what i don't guarantee it i don't

not a not a shed of doubt on my mind not a single shred no so in december of 1969 the secretary of the air force announced the official termination of project blue book and according to national archives between 1947 and 1969 so the entirety of project sign all the way to the end of project blue book right during that time project blue book looked into 12 618 ufo sightings 12,600 wow and only 701 of them remain unexplained which to me that's 700 fucking cases we talked about that i think we did we've talked about this before yeah and we're saying just and which jim harold always says which i love like just one has one story has to be true just one ghost has to be real for it to all be real to for it to be possible you know what i mean yeah and that's i'm right on board with you

700 is a lot more than one i will say 700 out of 12.6 000 though is only 0.06 percent oh it is a lot smaller than it's yeah exactly it doesn't feel all that big anymore but so only 0.06 percent oh it is a lot smaller than it's yeah exactly it doesn't feel all that big anymore but so only 0.06 percent of ufo sighting cases in that entire time during the like mass hysteria people looking into the sky every day only 0.06 percent are unexplained so and that by the way again me being a conspiracy theorist that's what they want you to think so they want you to think exactly right yeah so many do believe that thousands of the explained cases which is this is where i fall a lot of people think that of the thousands that were explained they weren't investigated fairly um so they were just kind of slapped with the label of explained. Or like weather balloon. Yeah. Basically.

Like swamp gas. Even there was an article in Popular Mechanics where an author named Mark O'Connell, he said, It was a rigged game because Blue Book investigators were under constant pressure to debunk and explain away any and all UFO reports. The worst sin one could commit on the Blue Book staff was to mark a case unexplained. Oh, wow. So it was just intense. Like there was an ulterior motive here

and you were supposed to be following protocol. Yeah, and it could have been because people didn't want to create more mass hysteria, so don't label it a UFO. Or, hey, we really need this explained because otherwise we as a military need to be worried about what the fuck this is because it could be you know they could be after us researchers but you better not find anything exactly well shit exactly it reminds me a lot of um when i covered snippy the horse and like

this was like a horse that was like like i think you i don't even remember the story anymore but he was like mutilated in some way there was it was there were scorch marks it was like weird goo everywhere but investigators still they couldn't come up with an explanation so they just called it solved like it was like what the fuck like how is that solved and not a ufo so um it reminds me of that where there's like something glaring in front of you that like yeah something's off and they just closed the case because they didn't want to deal with it so that's infuriating so yeah there were you know only 0.06 percent were not explained but the rest of them that were like there were

probably a lot of snippy the horses in there where it was very clearly very clearly alien and they were like nope you're like sorry just a dead horse just another dead horse just another dead horse with like an alien sign branded into it all over it so eventually dr hynek who uh created the hynek scale he and he was also in charge of Project Blue Book at one point. Eventually he speaks critically on Project Blue Book and he said that there wasn't a fair effort to investigate the cases with an open mind. So he is validating this theory. Interesting. And he said the entire operation was a foul up based on the categorical premise that the incredible things reported could not possibly have any basis in fact so um he ends up biased from the start basically yes thousand percent

he became a fierce advocate for true scientific study into the ufo problem and he said that they all really deserved genuine scientific consideration. But as he really got into this world of UFOs and he advocated for more research on them, universities ended up becoming embarrassed by their association with him. Which, like, in my mind, I'm like, you're embarrassed that he wants scientific study methods to be in place? Whatever. Yeah, he probably was labeled as like a kook, you know? Yes, I think so. study methods to be in place whatever yeah he probably was labeled as like a kook you know yes i think so and he ended up retiring from academia altogether just to go into studying ufos

and on being a consultant on military research he said i started almost as a complete skeptic because i thought the whole thing was a question of post-war nerves but it was the persistence of the phenomenon and it refused to dry up and blow away and that finally led me to the belief that there we had a real phenomenon to deal with what a smart guy like i feel like it takes a lot to like have a conviction like be so skeptical and then like turn that around based on the evidence like that's really a big move i feel like especially for like a 1950s man to like admit you were wrong. Yeah. To be like, yeah, I don't think that.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I was right. That's. I'm impressed. He ended up saying that the term flying saucer was, quote, most unfortunate because it opens the door to a great deal of buffoonery. I love to use the word buffoonery. Sorry. That's the best word i ever heard there's the rowdy raiders and the buffoonery buckeyes you're 100 right it's beautiful he believed that the imagery of the flying saucer made ufos seem

silly and prevented witnesses from coming forward for fear of ridicule yeah which that's true that's fair um and dr hynek said that uh it's witnesses uh they're science he said that people who have seen ufos if you're listening essentially it is your scientific duty to share your experiences so that way we have a compilation of reports. And he stated that the reports and anyone who reported to him, it would be anonymous. So if you're afraid of being ridiculed, I just want all the stories so I can look into them. I love that. I love that. In 1986, Dr. Hynek died, and he died still an adamant advocate that we needed scientific study and further attention to UFOs.

And years later, an official statement said that there hasn't been any new reasons to resurrect the UFO investigations from the Air Force. um they they literally said there's no reason to go back into looking into ufos because of the quote steadily decreasing defense budget which um let me remind you that the u.s has the largest military and defense budget in the entire world yeah it has uh more than the other nine top spending countries combined and i think they horrifying in 2020 they spent 778 billion dollars on military defense expenses billion with a b so like she's fine like i can't believe someone is saying like oh but it's steadily decreasing next so bro next year it might be 777 billion oh no rocket money on the, because they will tell you you're mismanaging your money. Okay, government? Exactly.

And for them also to be saying like, oh, well, we can't afford it to look into investigations. We don't even know if aliens are real. Let's travel back about six months ago when we started finding out that in recent congressional hearings on UFOs, where government officials are straight up saying aliens are real. I've looked them in the eyes. I have worked with them. I've spoken with them. I had keys to Area 51. The things that I've seen, your brain wouldn't even be able to process.

They're dangerous. They could hurt us. Thank God they've been nice so far. I've seen people die at the hands of them. And also, we just got that weird little picture of a spirit halloween alien skeleton or whatever that was we've all seen it now that there's they are showing little aliens that i mean it's it's it's on c-span like i can't get more like fuddy-duddy boring news you know c-sp, no offense to all the C-SPAN lovers out there,

but like, come on, this isn't like, oh, TikTok is like unveiling a conspiracy. It's like, no, this was literally a congressional hearing. It's just wild to me. So for all of their statements of like, oh, we're not going to look into UFOs and we don't have the budget for it. First of all, the biggest lie to ever come out of anyone's mouth is the military saying we don't have the budget for it. What are you talking about? They're using all that fucking money. That's the thing.

They probably don't have the budget because they're mismanaging how they're spending it. That's true. Please don't hurt me. Anybody. I'm scared now that I'm saying, if we go missing, it's the military's fault and you can't do anything about it.

Cause no, but just know no but just know but just know um but also like for them to say oh we're not gonna look into ufos and now six months later it's been proven that not only were they looking into ufos they were fully conspiring with ufos they were like speaking with extraterrestrial communicating with extraterrestrials, communicating with extraterrestrials. Fucking friendships with aliens or something. That's crazy. Anyway, if you ever want to go look at the highlights of that on TikTok, they're all there for you. That's amazing. Em sent it to me and my mind was fucking blown.

So, yeah. Anyway, especially since the congressional hearings where government officials straight up told us that aliens are real. And by the way, none of us cared because the world's on fire that's the best part you know that they wanted us to give a shit well no they didn't because they did they posted it on like a friday night so that nobody would get like primetime news and so like it just got completely you're totally right just side they like tried to tried to keep it deep on the dl well guess what it stayed on the dl because everyone heard and went whatever it worked yeah so anyway the skepticism of the findings and project blue book before recently and the

criticisms made by scientists and military personnel uh they it continued to fuel these theories that the air force the the CIA, and the FBI were covering something up, and calcipris they were. But fun fact, now Project Blue Book's records can be accessed in the National Archives. You can go read it yourself if you'd like. Kick ass.

And many of the reports have been digitized. So I wanted to use those to my advantage with these notes but honestly i think a 101 was the perfect way to start this so i love it that's project blue book wow good job m thank you that's a it's a big topic that's a daunting topic i think you did a great job and um you didn't leave any of us behind in your telling of it. So now we're ready for the next. We're graduating. We're graduating.

201. If I find any more, we'll have a 201. Is it 201 or a 102? I think it's 201 because I think two indicates like it's the next level. But then why do we even have the 01? Wouldn't it just be level 100, level 200? No, because I think once you get more detail so like 202 might be project blue book uh i'll look that up later something more specific like if it's like

anthropology is not like anthropology 101 it's like and then you have 201 which is the second basic of anthropology 203 might be like anthropology in this country, like more specified. Do you know what I mean? You might be right. You might not. I don't know. I'm probably not. I do know it goes 101, 201.

I think those are just like the levels. Interesting. I don't know. Like they're the intensity levels, but then the numbers at the end represent the categories. Like which class? Yes, yes, yes. I think that's it. Interesting. I'm pretty sure. I think that's it. Interesting.

I'm pretty sure. Go Rowdy Raiders. My mom's a professor. Go Bafootery Buckeyes. My mom's a professor. She's probably like, what the fuck, Christina? That's not how it works. Okay.

So, Em, I have a story for you. And it's interesting that yours was kind of, I don't know, I think maybe it's a similar situation where this is not as much as a deep dive as our wonderful researcher Saoirse and I expected. Because there's just a really, really limited amount of information on it. Look at us. Look at us just always having the same brain. Just, just. Two ships in the night, Christine. There we go.

Okay. Two peas in a pod. Peanut butter and jelly. So this is the disappearance of Susan Wolf. Okay. And I just want to write a little note here. Susan Wolf, her legal name when she disappeared was Susan Wolfe Kappel, but she was in the middle of a very contentious divorce and her obituary by her

family only used her maiden name. So I think we're going to stick with just the maiden name out of respect. Sure. And here we go. This is an Ohio story. Susan Wolf was born March 30th, 1962 to Judy and James or Jim Wolf. And she was born and raised in a town called Newcomers Town, which is in Ohio. It is about an hour and a half northeast of Columbus. And it is in the Appalachian region of Ohio on the Tuscarawas River. It is largely surrounded by forest and farmland and just 20 minutes from Salt Fork, which is like a wildlife area and includes Salt Fork State Park. So just, you know, kind of out in the boonies, so to speak. For the last several decades, the population of Newcomerstown has hovered pretty steadily around 4,000 residents, so pretty small town. And it's, of course, the sort of place, very cliche, but where everyone feels a sense of security. Everyone feels like they know each other. People feel safe, you know, and we sometimes see that and it's a red flag in these stories.

Nowadays, when something's safe, I'm like, like like i kind of wish it would start dangerous just so like yeah i'm on i'm already on edge yes exactly set my that's why i have such a what do they say like i i don't know i have that issue where i expect the worst because then if something good happens, I'm like pleasantly surprised. But I'm prepared just in case, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of how it is. So people felt like they were safe in this kind of a small rural town.

Susan herself was an active member of the community. She was part of the youth ministry at St. Paul's Lutheran Church. She was really proud to be in the Lutheran Church. In high school, she was a trombone player and a head majorette, which is a baton twirler in the school band. I can twirl baton. Do you know that? Can you really? Is this part of clown college?

No, it was part of summer camp. Oh. I love how many extracurricular activities of yours were like clown related that's fair i probably should i could have used it and but i will say very similarly i so i did baton twirling at summer camp and i did plate spinning in clown college so i feel like there has to be a little crossover with that skill maybe there's i'm really good with the wrist you know yeah there you go you got that wrist strength yeah that's very powerful skill congratulations thank you apparently she was such a good baton twirler that she actually during high school began she got like certified somehow and began teaching

courses at like a dance school in town so she was um you know not to put you on blast m but very good at baton twirling okay okay like relax it's fine yeah my bad she also led her own group called the purple riderettes okay girl the rowdy riderettes the rowdy riderettes that's good so in her senior year of high school in 1980 susan was very surprised to discover she was pregnant. So she had been dating this guy, but the pregnancy came as a surprise. And, you know, like happened so often back in the day, she married her boyfriend because of this situation. What you had to do. What you had to do.

And her boyfriend's name was Alan Capple. And they had a son named Damon. And Susan absolutely adored Damon. He was her whole life but unfortunately Susan and Alan's relationship uh was not happy I mean they got married when she was 17 and he was 19 and they immediately had a kid together like the amount of pressure and like getting roped into something so young I imagine is just very difficult So they had a very contentious relationship. Susan left him three times during their relationship.

And the third and final time she left was early 1982. So this was about two years into their marriage. She was only 19 years old. Susan showed up at her parents' house with nothing but the clothes on her back. And she told her parents she and Alan were filing for divorce. And she said, you know what, I'll do whatever I have to. I'll go on welfare if I need to. And her parents said, no, no, we'll take care of you and Damon. Like, we'll make sure you're taken care of. So Susan, of course, wanted to provide for Damon. So she started structuring

her life to allow for that. And what she would do is two nights a week, she would commute 45 minutes to work at a hospital in Canton, Ohio. And that job would soon become full time. And she was really excited for that to be like a full time career for her. But until then, she decided to take a second part time job at the IGA grocery store in Newcomerstown. So Susan was working toward a goal of being financially independent from Alan, especially because the divorce was upcoming and she wanted to have a chance at custody of their son. This was tough because, of course, along with a heated divorce often comes a heated custody battle. And Alan at this point had temporary custody and full control over whether susan could see her son so she felt like she needed to she felt like it was an

basically an uphill battle to try and get custody of her son but she was going to try as hard as she possibly could so one day when susan was supposed to pick damon up to spend time with him alan just flat out refused to meet with her and said, never mind, you can't see your son. And she flipped out. Class act. Class act. Exactly. She flipped out. She was like, you know what? She called her attorney. She said, I'm done with this. And her attorney said, well, the good news is we are ready to get this custody hearing going and a date has been set. Oh, yes.

This was a big deal. Custody proceedings had already been delayed twice. So she felt like this was just an ongoing. She couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel until now. So she was absolutely thrilled. She told her mom. She told Judy, Mom, it's the best news. I'm so happy.

And this part makes me tear up. But she spent the rest of the day. She bought paint to paint her own childhood bedroom for her son. Oh. And she said, this is going to be our room. We're going to sleep here. And the room had been painted orange when she was in high school and now she went out and bought green paint and spent the day painting the room to prepare for Damon's arrival after the custody hearing which like just tears my heart into pieces so she was in her parents stable home

two jobs under the roof uh you know and two incomes, basically a safe place to be a family, lots of people to watch him. She was like, this is perfect. They're definitely going to grant me custody. She told a friend, I have good news. I finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. So she was just felt like she was finally turning a corner. Yeah. So just before leaving for her 4 p.m shift at iga susan was in very high spirits um she told her mom i will be at that custody hearing and those were unfortunately some of the last words judy wolf ever heard from her daughter oh yeah so at 6 p.m susan's dad which i think this is very adorable stopped in at the grocery store deli to get dinner and see his daughter at work. Like he would pop in.

That is a very dad thing to do. Isn't that cute? I thought so, too. Like, I'll just pop in, grab a ham sandwich and say hi. So he went and saw her and she was halfway through her shift. So her shift ended at nine. He went to go get dinner. He saw Susan's car, the family car out in the parking lot, said hi to his daughter and said, I'll see you when you get

home. But once he got home, 9 p.m. came and went and Susan didn't arrive home. She only lived a mile away. Her parents only lived a mile away from the grocery store and it would have only taken a matter of minutes to drive home and she had the car at work so it was very odd that she didn't come home shortly after nine uh and it wasn't like her to just go make plans with friends last minute and not tell her parents so they were let's just say uncomfy they were like something is not right but we're gonna wait it out and hope that she just forgot to tell us where she was she also had just gone to work with her uniform and did not bring her purse or wallet with her so essentially like if she was out running errands she didn't have her

purse she didn't have her wallet right she didn't have a chain of clothes it just didn't make sense yeah it doesn't make sense and she was last seen wearing her. She was wearing her IGA apron. So it's not like she was going out with friends without a wallet and a change of clothes or whatever. So just very odd. Judy later said in an interview, we just had a horrible night that night. I was like, I don't know what's happened, Jim. We didn't know.

But I felt something horrible had probably happened. Just like a gut feeling just a gut feeling and it's it must be so scary because it's just nighttime and there's nothing you can do you're like yeah i go to sleep do i like drive around looking do i call the police but they're gonna say when you have one of those gut feelings like they they're not fucking around a lot of the time so if i ever had a gut feeling like you're an intuition freak the fuck out i would be like what is going on yeah oh my god and so no you're an intuition freak the fuck out. I would be like, what is going on? Yeah.

Oh, my God. And so now you're just sitting there and there's something you can do. You're like just waiting, which is just my least favorite thing to do as an extremely impatient person. So I can't even imagine. Still, Susan was a young adult. She was under a lot of stress as we covered. And, you know, it was possible she had made last minute plans with friends and lost track of time. So her parents were trying to convince themselves, like, maybe this is just her letting off some steam.

But, of course, the morning came and Susan still wasn't home. So the Wolves called IGA and got in touch with another woman who had worked the same shift as Susan that night. And she said, oh, I saw her leaving her shift leaving after work. And they asked her to tell the story. She said, the two of us were chatting in the parking lot, I was waiting for my husband to come pick me up. And Susan was headed toward her car, when a rusty blue car that seemed like an older model pulled into the parking lot and drove up besides Susan. Susan talked to the person and then looked back at her friend and apparently made a disgusted expression

as though she were, like, disliking the person in the car. Yeah. Almost, I imagine it as just like an, ugh, like an eye roll, you know, to your friend, like, ugh, this guy again. So even though the friend didn't see who was in the car she said she definitely knew the driver because after making this kind of face at her friend she hopped into the passenger seat oh and they drove away so we don't know what was said we don't know who was who the driver was we assume she knew him right to just get in the car to just hop in the car

you know also like for it to be a disgusted eye roll look it's like you have to be pretty close because that's like that seems like exactly a chummy thing to do yes and it feels like a like i dislike this person so much that i'm willing to make a face right in front of them like you know yeah i would roll my eyes at you or something front of them like you know yeah i would roll my eyes at you or something like i feel like you have to be like pretty close for that yeah yeah exactly so i wouldn't do that with a friend i just met because we're not that close right yeah i'm okay with looking like an asshole exactly because then you do look like an asshole you know so it it's bizarre because she then got in the car so they must

have said something even though she didn't like them to convince her to get in the car and there's no like gun or knife you know so it wasn't like she was forced into the car um she went willingly which was very odd so you know the parents hear this and they're immediately confused um but they thought of alan so So this is Susan's husband. Right. They're in the process of divorcing. Alan's friend, Rick Parrish, owned an old blue car. And they were like, huh, well, they're really close. Like maybe it was him. You know, we'll figure it out. So maybe it was. Sorry, I was saying maybe it was Alan borrowing Rick's car. Exactly. That is another that's a very strong possibility as well.

So they reach out to police who, you know, weren't really concerned. Susan was 19. She was under a lot of stress. Maybe she just wanted to get away for a bit. But none of this added up again. She wouldn't have just left town with in her uniform with no purse, no wallet, no ID without telling it. She had uncashed paychecks at home. It just didn't make sense. So above all else, Judy and Jim were like, this custody hearing is extremely important to her. It's coming up in three weeks. There is no way in hell she was just going to leave town and miss the custody hearing. Right. So Jim drove to IGA. And unfortunately, I imagine his heart must have sunk because Susan's car was still sitting in the parking lot and he she was nowhere to be found.

So he contacted police who gave him permission to take it home, which he did. So Susan's family didn't know what else to do. So they basically started making flyers, which I think is like, what else can you do? So they get help from others who are putting flyers up out of state. They're trying to get people who are leaving town to like bring flyers with them and kind of spread them throughout the area. And calls pretty quickly started coming in with sightings and tips. And Jim recorded every single phone call just in case.

So the Wolves were offering a $20,000 reward for information, which today is approximately $64,000. And I think the $20,000 reward came up. I think it increased to that eventually. I don't think it was $20,000 right off the bat, but it eventually became a $20,000 reward for any information leading to Susan's whereabouts. The Wolves traveled across the country from New Jersey to Las Vegas following all the tips they could. But every single one was a dead end. There was even a postal worker who delivered mail to a woman in Pittsburgh named Susan Wolf, but spelled differently.

And he called in a tip. And so they went to Pittsburgh. Her parents went to Pittsburgh and met this woman. But it just happened to be another woman named susan wolf and it was not the same which must have been heartbreaking so during the search judy said in an interview if susan is dead i can deal with that i don't want to but i can we have places for birth and death but where do you put that missing person so it's that same thing we see over and over again like the the lack of closure and how painful it is to not know whether someone has died and not be able to close a chapter give them a burial put

them to rest it's just this like constant waiting game and it like drains people. Torture. Yeah. Torture. Torture. In 1983, a Greyhound bus driver picked up a woman in Cleveland headed south and she requested to be dropped off at a gas station in Newcomerstown. But he said, no, that's not the official bus stop and that place is closed. So you got to wait till we get to the official bus stop. stop and that place is closed so you gotta wait till we get to the official bus stop apparently when she got off the bus she began running back toward that closed gas station oh shit okay the driver thought that's a little bit odd and at the freaking bus stop there was a missing poster sign and or miss yeah of her and he looked at the photo and said oh my god that looks just like this woman that just

ran away from the bus yeah and so he said she was acting strange she was traveling with one single satchel even though she had started the trip in reno nevada so like what she was traveling cross-country with like barely anything and she was headed toward the gas station where rick parish alan's friend had worked at the time of her disappearance oh interesting a little bit odd so the bus driver alerted the authorities but they did an extensive search of the area and found nothing no sign of her or no sign of the woman that uh could have been her like she just kept running off or yeah she must have uh slipped out of the area or hid under the radar yeah so once authorities reassessed the details of susan's disappearance they finally got involved

but they really didn't do much of a large-scale investigation or search effort and the police have gotten a lot of flack from people all over the country for how much they botched this investigation um judy and jim were convinced that alan alan's friend rick parish and his cousin robert kelly parish were responsible or at least involved somehow in susan's disappearance they just thought it is a little too coincidental for this nasty divorce to be going on the custody hearing is set that day and then she vanishes in a blue car they were like we think her ex is involved and his friend rick and his blue car that was our theory yeah yeah that's it's a good theory i think so i think it's definitely the strongest possibility at this point but get this two weeks after after Susan vanished, Rick and his cousin Kelly were killed in a car accident in the blue.

What? Yeah. And so that lead was just like gone. And there is speculation online about like, did somebody cut the brakes? Did somebody? but apparently it really was just an accident they like rolled off an embankment and were killed um it's almost like somebody in a comment on a forum said like karma got them immediately like if they did do it like karma got them immediately because they were killed within two weeks yeah um so you know

if they did know anything about susan's whereabouts they most likely took it to their graves um which would have just been so my first thought too was someone cut the brakes or yeah it's a very weird coincidence okay no no way to really know. But apparently, according to the. I don't know, paperwork, it was just a cut and dry accident, but who knows? Yeah. So the Wolfe's describe the official investigation as a very frustrating experience, which I would say is putting it mildly. And many, including myself, say it was downright botched. Unfortunately, we don't have many details regarding the investigation because, fun fact, all the investigation documents, transcripts, and the original prosecutor's file were somehow lost after a couple years. They just vanished.

And then that happened again. So they've lost... Sure, that's very interesting, just vanishing. Just piecing on out and nobody seems to know where they are so basically the information is it hadn't been digitized obviously this was back in the 80s so it's just lost to time which is infuriating ellen maintained his innocence of course um he said he was certain susan was alive somewhere and he said he expected her to knock on his door one day and he'd just ask her where she'd been and her parents were like yeah I mean that'd be fucking nice but I don't know many times that that's happened ever but um likely story okay and what is the but why would she even go to him like she's they're divorcing. Yeah, back off. Yeah, that's interesting.

Weird. So Alan was eventually granted his divorce and custody of Damon. This was a year after Susan vanished. I know. Despite the Wolf's efforts to seek grandparents' custody rights, I think that's a pretty difficult thing to pull off unless you have like very, very strong. Evidence or reasoning. reasoning yeah or evidence so he got custody and within five months he was remarried and in 2003 now this was 21 years after susan was last seen he also died in a car accident what the hell's going on i don't know it's weird right okay so i find it weird everyone's just like yep i'm like it seems bizarre to me but yeah i don't know um if he was

involved in whatever happened to susan of course now that door is closed and police had not taken the time to really thoroughly investigate him so too late now he's dead wild that they could never or that they never looked into the person she was having a custody battle with hello like best friend was like a suspect or the car drove a blue car i don't i mean botched you said botched earlier that's a great word because like yeah how did you miss this or how do you just not care enough and also like it's always careless the for the the like what's the knee-jerk thought is always it's the ex it's the husband did it yeah the husband did it the spouse did it so like how would you not even start there you think so and it's just really frustrating there have been theories floated around that maybe alan had like an in with

the cops and maybe or whoever did it maybe had an in with the cops and kept it on the dl there was also it i think it's also just frustrating because of the way they treated the family, like her parents. Right. So infuriating to listen to and read about. The way that they just were so dismissive and didn't give them any information. Like they were doing all the legwork, but the police just didn't even, you know, lift a finger. Well, you even said earlier that like the dad got permission to drive the car home. It's like they didn't even look into the car.

They didn't even, into the car. They didn't even. I mean, like they could have examined the blue car that the cousins drove. Right. Rick drove. But two weeks later, it was total. So they had those two weeks to take a peek to interview the cousin. Did they ever make a statement about like why they just didn't give a shit or like. No, not really.

Not really. There's not much reasoning to be heard. And for a while, the parents, Judy and Jim, were taking note or having their friends call anytime they saw like a blue, a rusty blue older car that fit the description. And they were writing down the license plates apparently they called police and told them that and they were like oh we don't keep track of any of that and they were like we've been like they just were doing all this work and then the police would just kind of put a block up you know like no that's not good no we're not doing

that um and so just say you don't care like just say exactly right you have no reason to not do your job it's pretty obvious i mean it's just infuriating i'm not you know probably doing it justice how much shit parents got um like just total what a word i heard in one podcast was uh Total. A word I heard in one podcast was. Did you hear what? Christine, what's the word? I'm having a brain fog moment again, but my mom brain fog. oh uh murphy's law sorry about that uh murphy's law where it was like uh you know everything that can go wrong will and it did in this case it was almost like comical if it if there were anything

funny about it but unfortunately you know there's it's actually just sad murphy's it's actually just yeah horrible um but it's true i mean like i don't I I have yet to hear you talk about one way that it was properly investigated. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or investigated at all. Not even properly. Like they just didn't even give a shit. Not even a first step. And so if you do want to hear more, Trace Evidence podcast did a really good episode, like thorough covering of the case. case that's where i heard the murphy's law comment and i fully agree um and he kind of goes over like in much finer detail like the minutiae of the quote-unquote investigation all that so if you are interested you can uh i watched on youtube but you can also listen to that so anyway this is all just a big mess as you can can imagine. And Alan then also dies in a car accident. And now that is closed as well.

Right. So although Susan's case isn't, you know, as well known or as widespread as others, it has compelled people for 41 years because it's just so jarring, like she just vanished. And so in 2006, users created a thread on websleuths.com to try and share information and theories. It's sort of like a forum where you can chat back and forth with other people. And one user shared an article about the cold case unit of the Kentucky Society of Professional Investigators. And the article came from Kentucky Post and featured a team of private investigators who were dedicated to taking on cold cases that were at least 20 years old.

And they had read about the Wolf story. And even though it wasn't in Kentucky and it was actually like not even in Cincinnati, it was farther north. They were so compelled by apparently it was the photo of the parents on the on one of the articles that compelled them to decide that the Wolfe's case was their first case, their first cold case they were going to look into. Oh, wow. Okay. So they pursued every lead they could. They were in contact with the Wolfe's. They said they will not be charging them a single dime for their help because they've already spent so much money on private investigators on at least

someone's being nice to them i know it's about time so unfortunately the link to the original article is defunct and like we can't find any like search and i both looked like you cannot find any more information really i was even on the way back machine like trying to dig around there's just not much about it online unfortunately still people continue to update the thread and actually the latest post was thursday as these notes were getting done somebody actually commented during that time um and so people are still you know trying to get to the bottom of it so i'm really hoping it feels like such a such an unlikely scenario but i really hope that something some hint comes forwards and people say like oh well it died with alan if he did know anything but maybe not maybe he said something to somebody and yeah maybe he let it slip at one point when he had a few too many drinks or maybe

who knows but i feel like there has to be somebody out there who might have a clue or they couldn't even like they couldn't even get a warrant and like blacklight his clothes for blood or something like i don't i feel like there's i mean i mean she's clearly alive if she ran off the bus right but like was that even her i don't know but probably not you know i mean probably not yeah there were so many sightings and even though that one was like a compelling one it doesn't necessarily prove anything and you know maybe the person on the bus just had an uncanny resemblance to her, you know? Yeah.

And it just happened to be at Rick's car. I mean, it's all so weird. And, like, man, man, I don't know. Like, was there any. I don't know. I'm trying to, like, Olivia Benson this and be like, what's, what's sideways. Cause they have taken, but they could have taken anyway and it would have been better. So. I know. I know. And the saddest part is this year, it's been 41 years since her disappearance.

And think about how old that makes her son. He's in his forties now. Yeah. So it's just, it's just crazy. So in March of 2022, 40 years since they last saw their daughter, Judy told the Times reporter, we still think there's a good possibility that she may be alive somewhere. Now, that doesn't make sense, but it does to me because I don't know what's going to happen. I had a time there when it first happened that I thought, I can't keep doing this. I can't keep praying because it's not helping. But that didn't last very long but they did eventually seek closure a few years ago in late 2014 they decided to begin proceedings to declare Susan legally deceased and Damon who was 34 at the time did not attend the court granted their request and the Wolves were able to hold

an official service and erect a gravestone for susan and the gravestone has her name and then the two names next to it are her mom and dad so for when they pass yeah it's always horrible to see like parents still living on the gravestone on the child dawn it's just a horrible sight so they held a celebration of life service for susan on june 6th which was an important date for them because it was the day that she had been confirmed into her lutheran church in 1976 and as a teenager and that was a just a really special day for her and a special day for the whole family so they decided to do it that day. And they published an obituary,

which spoke of Susan's brothers, aunts and uncles who miss her, as well as her nieces and nephews that she never got the chance to meet. And the obituary ended with Susan's favorite Bible verse, which she and her mother picked out together years ago for her confirmation on that day. The Bible quote is, for everything there is a season and a time for every matter under heaven so today the wolf still hope that they'll one day find the ultimate closure and have some truth but uh for the time being they are just trying to you know live one day at a time they're in their 80s now um so you know we can only hope that some information comes through that gives them some answers before they pass but um i like to think

that at least when they pass they'll be reunited but yeah i don't know oh um that is the story i'm gonna give you a quick i took a screenshot of her stats, like just in case, you know, if anyone has any information. Yeah. So let's see. Susan Wolf Kappel was 19 years old when she went missing. She was only 19. Think about that. Sorry.

That took me by surprise again. In my mind, she was like our age. Yeah. So I know. I know. So so many of the photos that are posted are like age progressions of her. So, I forget how young she was when she actually passed or disappeared. I'm sorry. Susan Wolf Kappel was 19 years old when she went missing in 1982.

She has brown eyes and brown hair and at the time of her disappearance, she was 5 feet 4 inches tall and weighed 107 pounds. She was last seen wearing a white and brown striped turtleneck sweater, brown corduroy jeans, a red IGA smock, and reddish brown oxfords. Her upper left front tooth was discolored and she has a scar on the upper right side of her lip. She had previously fractured her nose in a car accident. If you have any information about Susan and you can call the sheriff's office, the Tuscarawas County Sheriff's office or the newcomers town police department but i have heard also that the family likes to receive the tips themselves so that they can follow up honestly you're you have better luck with telling the family right it seems like they have good reason for that so i would i would go that route instead maybe research how to get in

touch with them if you have any information and you know anything's worth sharing as i always say like you never know what might help and actually the the woman who worked with her at iga actually ended up doing a hypnosis to try and recall any more details about the car oh well blue car and she nothing came up during the hypnosis either so the family's worked with psychics. I mean, they've tried so much and spent so much money trying to get to the bottom of it and have had zero answers. Imagine their anger with the police. Yeah, heartbreaking.

I can't imagine. Infuriating. So that's the story. And that's why we drink. And that's why we drink. Indeed, Em. Geez, oh my gosh yeah well he said yeah i thought you said that that story um didn't have a lot of information but it sounded like it did i mean it should have more but you know yeah i was talking to search about it it was sort of

like all the legal stuff has vanished like all the prosecutor information all the has vanished like all the prosecutor information all the police files they got lost so like we don't have any official paperwork about it you know there are like articles and the family has talked a lot but there's just a lack of official documentation on it um so it's just a bummer. Well, good storytelling anyway, Christine. Thank you, Em. You and your tank top and your broad shoulders, apparently. Y'all did a good job. Ooh, la la.

Thank you so much. Um, what are you doing for the rest of the day? Great question. Probably just continuing to clean and clean and prep for the party. Oh, yeah. What do you have left? I also am cleaning. Oh, yeah. Right.

What's your what's like the big overwhelming thing that you're trying to get done before your party? Just cleaning. thing that you're trying to get done before your party just cleaning like my mom came over and was like look at the couch and it has this like giant stain all over it i'm like that's so gross so now i'm trying to figure out how to clean the fucking upholstery on the couch just stupid shit like that um oh i wanted to say though i actually um have a quick little shout out because when we were on tour or no I'm sorry it was Beach G Sandy was on tour but we got a set of cookies from someone called the Kitchen Witch and I remember thinking like oh my god what an amazing username and company name and so I reached out to them because I just thought they did such a good job with the cookies and I said would you be willing to make cookies for Leona's party and yeah she wrote to me today and said I'm shipping them today and here's a little sneak peek and they have like little hungry they're all the fruits

and they have like little holes in them I'm so excited it's like the little caterpillar i know i'm so excited about it so i just wanted to give her a shout out um she's at i think the username or the account is uh kitchen witch or at kitchen wish i will i will make sure we post a kitchen witch cookie co and um i swear to god like one of the most impressive does it like hand designed cookies i've ever seen in my life so i just want to give her a shout out um the little holes in the cookie like the caterpillar is that not so cute precious did you ever get all your items back i did they came already um and i was cracking up i told my mom i was like okay watch this and pretend like i just stole this off someone's porch and i'm looking to make money off it the first thing i pull out is a three

and a half foot cardboard caterpillar it's like this idiot is gonna be so mad when he gets like a bunch of little felt apples and a four foot caterpillar he's gonna not know what to do are you i did get it all back thank you for i definitely want pictures i want to see what this uh i want to see what the setup looks like i will take pictures for sure and we can post them and i'll tag uh i'll tag kitchen witch what's she gonna wear at her party and i don't know i'm kind of freaking out about that because i was gonna make a shirt like with my cricket machine but i'm just running out of time is there like a caterpillar outfit you can just get online for her to wear yeah maybe they have someone etsy but they probably won't come in time i mean she is the hungry caterpillar

right yeah she is the hungry caterpillar indeed very very hungry it'd be very very sweet i don't know i don't know it'll it'd be cool if you got her a whole little caterpillar tail and it just wagged behind her all day and just little antenna yeah oh well i hope you have fun i'm sorry i can't be there i know we'll miss you and the food will there be so much food and i don't miss you too everyone else will finally have a chance to eat something at your house because i'm not there to stop it so well and that's why we drink