And That's Why We Drink - E365 Podcasting in Dog Years and Collecting Crows Feet

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

It's episode 365 and we're one year old in dog years! After seven years of podcasting we've finally reached one entire year's worth of full episodes. It also just happens to coincide with Gio's Gotcha Day! In honor of all these self-imposed holidays, we've got some wild stories for you today. First Em takes us to 1800s Wisconsin for the strange Nodolf Incident, but not before taking us on a deep dive into the history of hillside letters. Then Christine starts a two-parter in the infamous case of the Lipstick Killer. And is this the reprise of the hoop and stick? ...and that's why we drink!Don't miss our very last On the Rocks live shows! Get your tickets to join us at andthatswhywedrink.com/live

don't do it christine there i did it i was like you know what then you fucking start uh and i did i gotta tell you today's a big day it's geo's gotcha day is that why oh i thought that was why no i was like you remembered i don't i did not remember but i know his birthday i don't know his gotcha day but happy gotcha day, Giovanni. You do now. It's a little sweetheart. Why is it a big day, my friend? Because, Christine, today is episode 365, which means we are officially a year of episodes.

That's so stupid. Which is wild because. Holiday for everything. It took seven years for us to become a year of episodes. But if someone wanted to start, and that's why I drink today. Oh, so we're dog years. Yeah. It's on a gong-gong.

Wait. It's the actual dog year age that's kind of cute look how see i told you we'd get we'd get there and i just think it's very sweet if someone was like i'm gonna start and that's why we drink today and i'm gonna do an episode a day it would officially now take them one full year one trip around the sun as they say to listen through i guess except except for all the listener episodes but you know that's okay yeah yeah well i'm already on a roll christine so i'm gonna need you to just play along here i just want to be a naysayer so let me i don't know why i like just have i just gave you the coolest fact you'll ever hear and in in to be on theme of our

early days to give you the full one year experience my camera glitched today so we're getting the full circle graininess of yesteryear as if we were to have filmed our first episode but my camera's acting up and i'm sure yeah i'm looking for a reason to excuse it for everybody. So this is my version of the bad audio from the first couple rounds of And That's Why We Drink. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't know what it's going to be different because it still films in 4K. So I don't think it makes a difference. I have to look at myself for the next two hours and i can't see how great i look so it's nice it's nice it's blurred i don't have to see all the fine lines and you know is this blurred or no okay okay you can see that one what about this

one over here on my right hand cute yeah see them both see them both okay oh christine anyway happy 365 seven you're seven in dog years so you know what i feel like i can talk about our crow's feet our collective podcast crow's feet that's totally fine um i'm just so happy i get to if i were to put put us in my ears it would take me so long to finally get you to shut the fuck up now. It'd take a full year. A whole year. And you know what? You're right.

That is something to celebrate when you put it that way. I'm pretty excited for us. So I'm excited for everybody who gets to celebrate this big milestone with us. It's a monumental day. I've never really felt or seen anything like it. And I just, I couldn't be happier. I'm at a loss for words, really. Thank you.

Because I've been thinking about it for a long time and I kept trying to find like an on-theme episode topic for you. I could not find one. I tried so hard. And I gotta be honest, before I get yelled at over my phone,lor from creeps and crimes did suggest that today i cover like calendars like mayan calendars all this stuff but i already did a doomsday prophecy one i didn't want

to i you know what i mean so i specifically to taylor everybody else you can turn off the podcast for like 30 seconds did Did you just text Taylor? Like, what should we do for our 360? No, she said she told me one of the last times we recorded together. She it was like she pitched it was like for 365. You have to do something that involves like a year, like a year theme. So calendar. So she even knew it was a celebratory event.

It seems like. Yes. OK. I mean, I guess I'm outnumbered i because i thought oh what were you like harassing everybody about this special occasion um but it sounds like other people are on board i'm just the only contrary person in the i apologize as you can tell i'm very sorry about it good that's i like i like where we're starting in this episode okay um apologize for something else and then i'll have a really good certain energy to the table je ne sais quoi uh no no no

um anyway christine uh what do you drink this week and why do you drink this week oh um i mean listen yeah okay i um we talked yesterday by the way and i didn't hear any of this i know i know it's like every day i have a new world to show you um this is something that you knew about but i finally rectified it i got my tiktok back finally um it was an arduous and a long and a fraught process over the new year's holiday it took about uh let's see what day is it almost a month um to rest it out of the hands of Mustafa who hacked my account and then started messaging people including you by the way um and you know I went into a deep dive of course in a hotel in like a you know Holiday Inn Express one night on New Year's Eve because my we were driving through Pennsylvania my husband and baby were sleeping I thought what better to do than to get to the bottom of this um internet criminal who has taken over my account and I

was mad because he deleted all my videos so like now they're gone I mean I'm sure they're saved somewhere in my camera roll but I'm like that felt like extra personal it was like it's one thing to take over an account but like also like obviously neither of us actually know the reason why but it was like if you're just gonna take it hostage because you want to get like oh okay i'll shut up your turn you go sorry there's a very long lag i think so it sometimes probably sounds like i'm like cutting you off i'm not trying to i'm trying to time it so that I think I'm making it oh really I don't hear a lot at all I do but that's okay uh we'll figure it out it's fine um we've dealt with worse this is episode 365 you know what I mean like we're a year old

we're still figuring this shit out um I was gonna say oh so right like so he deleted all my videos, which I thought was like, unnecessary. Like, why couldn't you just make them private? Okay, but I don't think he cared. Right. So he deleted all my videos, which was whatever, but I'm annoyed because now I don't have like all the comments. And like, I just don't have any of that. And then he went and unfollowed, like, of course, kept all the fucking followers. It wasn't even that many. I mean, it was a lot like compared to it was like 26,000 or something. It's not like a crazy amount. But he deleted everyone I was following, which I was very annoyed by because like, I didn't follow that many people, but it was like very curated, right? Like it was like my friends.

And then it was, you know, specific people I really thought were funny or whatever. So that was very annoying. And then I found his identity on the internet, his address, his phone number, all this nonsense. And I'm like, okay, so I know who he is. And I spent hours tracking him down, figuring out who he was. And then I went, well, now what? Like, I don't know why I went on this like journey, I discovered his identity, I discovered his home address his middle name like all of it and then I was like well apparently that's not going to do me any good like I thought oh finally I get to be like my you know cool like web sleuth self and I was and then it did nothing and so I messaged him I found a way to message him um like on whatsapp and I said like Mustafa

give me my fucking account back and he said ha ha ha you must give me 850 dollars and I was like I'm not gonna do that why the 50 why I was like 850 couldn't we have rounded to a grand oh because because um because that's the the value on the marketplace is what I was told and I'm like I there's no way my account is worth $850 but he's like I'm gonna sell it to the highest bidder and I'm like okay good luck like who the fuck is gonna like you're talking to her like give me my fucking yeah right like who nobody wants this right and so just to give you an idea by the time I finally got it back he still owned it so it's not like he found a better than me okay so I'm like first of all, first of all, I'm going to send you, I'm not going to send you anything, but if I did like,

what are you just going to give me my password? Doubtful. So it was just such a fucking back and forth mess. And then I waited until it was nighttime in Iraq and I post. So the thing is, I was still logged in cause I could use face ID, but he did like the double verification. So I could, every time I tried to like change a password it would text him and email him and i was like shit like even if it's texting him and i know his phone number i can't like get his messages do you know what i mean so it was just such a mess and then finally i was like desperately talking to tiktok support and like god bless but they were just making me furious they were like of course well it looks like um we removed you from the account because this mustafa person proved it was his account and i

was like oh yeah like did he now you know and so anyway my verified blue check on tiktok and my face don't hurt enough for you i was so frustrated so i finally got it back. It took weeks. And then I messaged him because I can't help myself. And I said, like, I said, like, I forget what I said. Just something like catty. And then I sent you guys the text of what he responded. He said, I will always be here. And I was like, oh, no, that's not the vibe I was hoping for here I thought I had like um foiled him you know in his in his plot um but then he sent this like insane message to me here I'm gonna pull it up

because I just want to put this out there he said he will get my account back and I said okay Okay. Let's see. He said to me, I told you earlier, I will never leave you. Even if you recover your account, it's not the first time I've hacked one. Watch what happens, even if you try to retrieve it again and again. And I was like, Oh my God. So I just responded. I think you should get, I'd recommend you get a hobby instead. And he said, my hobby extracts $10,000 every month, LOL. Congratulations. Congratulations. I don't believe you, by the way. Yeah, I don't believe you at all.

He said, but it isn't the end. It's just the beginning. He said, we will always manipulate your account. Let's see what will happen. Good luck. And I'm like, oh my God, this man has it out for me now because when, oh, and by the way, I could log into my account. The point of that story was that I posted when he was asleep, right? I posted. And I posted this video that was like, hey guys, like it's nighttime in Iraq. So I'm hoping Mustafa

doesn't see this right now. And I hope he's asleep. It's like 4 a.m. So I'm going to post this here. But just so you know, like I made another account. So go follow that. But just so you know, this is hacked and I'm trying to fix it. And it was like very funny because he freaked out the next morning, like freaked out when he found out what I did. Good. Started like, yeah. And people were messaging him and being like dude you're such

a loser like get out of here you know and he was getting so worked up like i could read all the dms and i was like this is kind of fun like we're sort of cyber bullying a bully what was he saying back though like what was his response when people would call him a a loser or whatever he'd be like you're a loser like it wasn't good it wasn't like clever yeah he nailed it he's a fucking 10 grand a month fucking entrepreneur you know um like here let me see like some of the messages were like dude give her her account back and he said shut the fuck up bitch oh jesus christ so you know he's kind of a nasty man. Like, he's not nice. I gathered when he stole your account and then tried to exploit you.

Or extort you. I know. I was hoping we'd have a fun little thing. Like this was your meet cute and he'd be over for dinner next week. Like this could be a sitcom, you know. But no, he didn't want to play that game. So he just said horrible things to people on my account. And he was like, it just really was a lot.

You know, but I got it back. So, folks, if you were wondering, I'm back on TikTok now at Xteen Schieffer. I still have my other account, which is Christina Bina, which is kind of my account that I made when I wasn't sure if this one was ever coming back to me but yeah I'm gonna try and repopulate my feed and see if I can get it back to normal but it was it was a journey and when Mustafa sent me those threatening texts I was like I see I can't help myself I said bring it on yeah You and my mother are exactly the same. One time someone tried to like it was like one of those spam scam people who they pretend to be the bank and they needed my password to get into my bank account. And this was years ago now. I fell for it in some way where they had like almost hacked in. So they didn't actually get

my money but because I caught I caught on at the very last second like in the 11th hour thank god my mom found out uh my mom found out and like really like Liam Neeson threatened this person like really was like I'll rip your fucking eyeballs out like something crazy and like they fought back it became a whole thing where then like oh my god it was like unnecessary i was like you could just you were like mom we we won it's like let it be yeah yeah and she was she's an aries she really was like any opportunity to be a fucking hothead i'm gonna take it the fires out so i did you you didn't pay him the 850 how did you actually of course not the tiktok support finally tiktok support helped me which like okay to be honest it took many weeks and finally i had to message from like the beach to sandy tiktok and i said i need you to help me i'm losing my

mind this person is like sending threatening inappropriate messages to people like I don't know I sent a message and I was like I need you to help me now or explain why it why we can't make this work because they just kept closing all my like my I'd open a ticket and then it would be like okay let's go through all you have to change your password and I'm like oh my god I can't change my fucking password like I don't know how else to say this. So finally I was like, please fucking help me. And somebody did. Somebody said, send a picture of your ID to this, you know, to prove it's yours. And I did.

And then, like, within a couple days they were able to reassign it to my email. And then I was allowed to log in and, like, kick him off. But, man, it was a doozy. There's a subreddit that's like where do you like where do you stand like in um like what's your one take that finally has you agreeing with boomers it's like for all their like bad hot takes where do you actually like get cave where do you align where do you actually agree that like they're on to something and a lot of people are like just fuck these stupid robots i have to like why is there support that i can't talk to it's like they're not supportive it's so it's infuriating like that's probably

where i stand with the boomers i'm like they're taking our jobs all these robots you know and the ridiculous thing is like so i mean the ridiculous thing overall is that i'm complaining about my tiktok account when i also lost my health insurance last week and have an infusion tomorrow so it's like you know i should be complaining about that because it's did it come back did you get it no um and so we've been like remicade tomorrow i sure do um and so we've been like oh my god i know it's a nightmare so like we've been but this what I do. I like compartmentalize and then I just like hyper focus on something that's not the real problem. Right. So that I don't lose my sanity. And so we've been dealing with this fucking insurance thing. And it's a nightmare because we're on Cobra because Blaze had been laid off. And so we had been using his insurance because podcasters, weirdly enough, don't have access to great insurance in Kentucky. It's the weirdest thing. Wouldn't you know it? I know.

And so I was like calling and trying to figure it out. And then we asked for somebody to help us, like with our business manager that we both work with. And they were like, okay, sure. And they put us in touch with these people who work with insurance. And literally like 12 hours later, they messaged back this like really rude fucking email, which I told you about, where they, like, addressed us and put a period after our name. And I was like, don't fucking talk to me like that via email. Like, Christine, period. Like, don't do that. I see you.

And then this guy goes, well, I spent hours on the chat bot and I got nowhere. And I was like, excuse me? That's what you've been doing for 12 hours? I can sit on a chat bot for 12 hours too, my friend. Like, of course you got nowhere. Faking our jobs, I'm telling you. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

I was like, he's like, well, chatbot didn't help me at all. And I was like, if it was going, if it was as easy as getting on the Anthem chatbot, like we wouldn't have a problem right now. But of course that's not going to work. So anyway, I'm just like having one of those weeks where I'm like um everything's fine until for one moment I realize like I'm falling into the pits of insanity and then I just kind of

bounce back so how are you hmm well um I'm I have tech talk account and health insurance. So I'm so happy for you. I am. I'm not even just saying that this time. I really am because fuck it. Somebody needs it. If it's not me, it might as well be you.

I would like it. I don't know if I need it, but I would like it a lot. Um, so I'm glad that I have that, but wow, I am nervous for you with your remicade tomorrow. That sounds really,

really bad. You know, and that's something you don't want to, it's something you don't want to, um, have that but wow i am nervous for you with your remicade tomorrow that sounds really really good you know and that's something you don't want to it's something you don't want to um hold off on while we're touring exactly that's why i didn't push it i was like i have to go because we're going to salt lake and like i can't i can't mess with it so anyway it's gonna be i think it's like 13 500 out of pocket and then with like a just a rebate it's like to be, I think it's like $13,500 out of pocket. And then with like a rebate, it's like $8,500 out of pocket, which like, what the fuck? Like, who do you think I am? Right. And so I'm a podcaster in Kentucky, not like, you know, Warren Buffett.

I'm like, who's a rich person? I don't know. No. And like, I mean, I'm very fortunate in that, like, I'm not going to, you know, go bankrupt over it. Like, I'm able fortunate in that, like, I'm not going to, you know, go bankrupt over it. Like I'm able to source the money if need be. But like, do I want to spend 13 grand on something that like should be covered and has been covered? And no, and I don't.

So I'm just like losing my mind, but it's fine. We're going to try to reimburse it. It's just one day at a time. it's just one day at a time. Did you have, uh, you had a, uh, uh,

what's it called? A consultation with a new therapist. How'd that go? I did. I'm so excited. And I start on Friday. I do. And I start Friday,

not this Friday, but the Friday after. And she was like, do you want to do like an over the phone? And I was like, was like you'll hear about that no I don't want to do over the phone I was like you'll learn in time that that's unacceptable um no but she's really sweet do you still have to drive to her or is it like a FaceTime thing yeah it's like in person but I prefer that anyway I don't know as you know, she does virtual too if we're like traveling. But I was like, let's just do in person.

And then I was like, I have a lot to talk to you about. You've never met me, but I have so much to tell you. Isn't it weird? It's got to be weird if you're like, you finally meet like the one therapist wise. And like they just appear for me. Her name is Jordan. And she just appeared on my screen one day. And I was like, oh, Jordan, you're about to have a lot of information Jordan Jordan Jordan you're

in danger girl you I don't look like yeah look what you got yourself into um well you inspired me because you've had such success and such growth as you've said with jordan that i i was like you know what i need to get back back on the saddle i literally i love jordan i and i feel like she's accidentally um become all of our therapists at different times because um i just keep screaming to everybody things that jordan would say i'm always like well jordan said to do that but he's like who the hell is jordan and i'm like i don't i don't mean to be that person i just finally i mean m's therapist i just finally found a therapist who isn't fucking miserable and it took about three decades for that so um yeah i i wish you luck on your therapy do you know how i found this therapist i didn't even tell you our social media manager megan

messaged me or maybe it was our admin kat Katie I forget somebody messaged me and was like hey you got some recommendations because I think I like frantically shouted in one episode like I'm in northern Kentucky does anyone know a good therapist help me and this person whoever it was I have to thank them sent like a recommendation of a practice that they don't work for anything but they were like hey this is a really good practice, very open, very accepting, LGBT friendly, et cetera. And I was like, oh, perfect. And so I looked at their page and I reached out and they matched me with someone. So, yeah, that was a listener helped me with that. So thank you.

You really are just helping life coach me through life. So I appreciate it. What a dream. That's very lovely. What a dream. Would you like to crack into it? I like, I really would love nothing more than to just hear a story and forget about

everything else. I have a story for you, Christine. And today we're drinking liquid death. We are pairing that with our drink. So let's crack into it. Liquid Death, pay me. We do this every time.

Okay. Anyway. How many times do I have to tell you? First of all, Blaze still makes fun of you for the time you said they were like a small business at one time. And Blaze was like, aren't they? They were. They're not now. They were.

I don't. I think they were never. I think they were. Well, maybe. But I'm like, they're owned by like somebody big. I don't i think they were never i think they were well maybe but he but i'm like they're owned by like somebody big i don't know dasani nestle i'm now but yeah but like they're not gonna pay you you're giving them free promo i know but just know that i'm i'm doing i'm this is i'm a martyr that's what it is uh and everyone should uh be so happy oh no i'm wrong it's it's it's

owned by uh oh wait hold on hmm how mysterious what it's owned by like mcdonald's or something no no i was wrong um i was wrong oh wow their brand is valued at 700 million dollars yeah good for them so you know sounds like they could pay me um anyway it sounds like they don't need to i know i know just trying to make myself feel better okay anyway since we're talking about water everybody seems to like what i fucking say and i'm always getting dm so i'm gonna keep saying it this is your reminder to drink some water you thirsty little rats i don't get it i don't get it i don't really do i get it is it like a joke that i missed oh look it's christine the naysayer she's back after 20 minutes oh wow it didn't take long at

all i took a long rest and i'm back uh i'm back and i'm i'm jazzed up to be rotten. Apparently so. I'd like to know if, I guess I just, since you said, oh, people like love it and stuff. I'm like, can you explain it to me? Because I think I'm playing along, but I don't get it. Like, is it a joke that I just never understood? Or is it like you just say it for fun? People just like the reminder to drink some water. Is it a TikTok?

I mean, the rat thing. Oh, nope. People just like being called rats. Okay. Okay. So that's not like, cause I thought maybe it's a TikTok joke or something that I like didn't get cause I'm an ignoramus, but it's just a thing you invented, right? No, you're just, you're just, you're just not with it no matter what. That's all. Okay, great. Just want to make sure that's what's happening okay uh well christine my favorite little rat who i hope you took that as a compliment okay i did i love rats as you know sick well you don't so i don't i don't know again i don't get it but it's fine i love it sometimes you don't have to understand you just get to be part of the party that's all

so uh it's just party of rats i guess that's all of us today and we're gonna hear a story which i wanted to make about calendars and like the one year and 365 it never happened so unfortunately we don't get that instead we get a fun little tale which i might need your help pronouncing because i think it's a german last name oh n-o-d-o-l-f nodolf nodolf not familiar to me in any way, but all right, maybe. That makes this more fun. Well, this is the not off. I'm going to call it not off incident. An incident. That word we both know pretty well.

Yeah. This is in Platteville, Wisconsin, which is not Plathville. If anyone has been watching that, that Bala drama reality show. Art. Excuse me. This is Platteville, Wisconsin, and it's in an area known as the Driftless Region, which I love when a region gets its own name. And it's called the Driftless Region because I guess at one point glaciers never passed over it like the rest of the Midwest. And the region was once an ancient layer of limestone.

It was just all limestone. And it eroded over time, but it left these big mounds, which became like significant locations for indigenous people in the area. And then those indigenous people also built like thousands more like man-made mounds. Wow. A lot of mounds in the area and then those indigenous people also built like thousands more like man-made mounds so wow a lot of mounds in the area fun fact wisconsin out of everywhere in the world i would have not won this trivia round but wisconsin is the area with the largest concentration of effigy mounds in the world and i would never have known that i would have seen that on a multiple choice and been like it's obviously not wisconsin i mean i would have said ohio there are a lot here and usually weird shit happens here like as far as uh when trivia questions are brought up a lot of

times ohio just tends to be the answer because it's like just some weird random ass fact about ohio so i probably would have guessed. But yeah, I mean, Wisconsin, that's really interesting. I had no idea. Fun fact. This is about to be a story of fun facts, my friend. So we're chock full. The area was also rich in lead. And so indigenous people started mining for lead in the area until the lovely colonizers started moving in.

And then they became their own miners and moved in on the lead deposits. This is my lead now. Yeah. I said, I can't believe I discovered lead in front of a group of people holding lead. Yeah. Isn't this the craziest thing, you guys? I'm such a good explorer. Since the second white people got here, we've just been mansplaining to people how to do their own fucking job.

It's so embarrassing. Yeah. It's so embarrassing. Anyway, so we were all these people had literally been holding on to lead for probably 100 years. Then a white person shows up and goes, there's this thing called lead. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's mine. It's mine now god we've just always been five-year-olds on a playground so in 1927 the town of platteville is established

in this area and due to the lead boom it's a big mining area as we knew and a mining school is officially opened in town um and again this is during the 1920s. So later, the school transitioned into just like a general college, not just a mining school. And by 1937, students used some of the stones in the area to build, like, I guess the, I'm assuming the school started with an M or M for like mining or something. They really like the word, the letter M. And so in 1937, a bunch of students used stones in the area to construct an M into the hillside to like promote either the school or the town. I don't, there's an M. You have to understand that the way you said it sounds like they constructed a giant M

Schultz into the side of the mountain. You have to, you have to understand that. My mind went, they constructed a giant M, Schultz, into the side of the mountain. You have to understand that. My mind went, they constructed a what? A giant M on the side of the mountain? I see. After I just talked about how shitty white people are and how this place is full of man-made indigenous effigy mounds. But there's a statue of me. There's a statue of you in the cliff.

Sorry, the letter m understood so yeah they took they made a bunch put a bunch of stones together they made the letter m into the hillside it's actually the world's largest hillside m and it is 241 feet tall and it's like just leaning up against one of the mounds and it's now a landmark of the town is if you go to Platteville, you'll see this M in the hills. So this is where we hit our first big deep dive, which leads us into our second deep dive. So I hope you weren't really invested in this story yet. We're about to spend the next 15 minutes talking about something else completely. I'm just here for the ride.

Great. else completely i'm just here for the ride great so like i said this school decided to put a big letter in the middle of their hill during the 20s and 30s apparently this was a very common thing um and this is where i insert my own my own i don't, random information for people to use nothing with, uh, or to use for nothing. But living in Burbank, one of our big landmarks is that we have a giant bee on the hill in Burbank. Oh, right. Yes. I do know about the bee. The bee. Yes. It's called the Burbank Bee. And, uh, it's in the Verdugo Mountains, whichugo Mountains, which this is like one of the first landmarks when I moved to Burbank. I was like, oh, my God. Like, did you know that we have a bee?

And everyone was like, yeah. Yeah. So where I live, we're right up on mountains, the Verdugo Mountains. And there is a bee facing the town of burbank if you look up in the hills there's a massive white bee it's this popular landmark it's been around since the 20s or 30s just like this m has been here's the thing though just did like their hobbies like in the 20s like i don't understand like they were just like i know let's write big letters out of rocks that's what we do so in the 20s it's i will say the reason i bring up the burbank b is because it's a town mystery how the b got there

um allegedly it stands allegedly it stands for burbank um but we really don't know who put it there or when or why, but the, there's like three main theories. One is that, um, the Burbank chamber of commerce put it there to promote the city because apparently everyone at the time was putting letters on the hill and they were like, we got a hill. Um, so it's supposed to be there. is that there's a school nearby that is called Burroughs, John Burroughs High School. The thought is that they put it up there to stand for Burroughs and not Burbank at all. But the main theory is that the key club at Burbank High School put the B up there sometime around the 20s or the 30s. That's the most the overwhelming popular theory is that Burbank High School did the B. What's a key club? At least with people I've talked to. Because I'm very stupid. I don't know.

Maybe I'm stupid too. I assumed it had something to do with singing for some reason, like the chorus key club. What is a key club? I thought it was like a volunteer thing but i could be wrong i'll google it probably right what does a student-led high school organization who make the world a better place through service okay so yeah it is like a that's lovely it's i don't know why i thought key club i guess because maybe they like singing in minor key I don't know but anyway Key Club decided that they were going to put a B on the hill okay we still don't totally know the origins

of why but the thought is that they did it because at the time a lot of people were doing this and they originally started with like white stones that they also put together to put out a letter then at one point it was chalk and it became like a tradition for students to go up there every year And they originally started with like white stones that they also put together to put out a letter. Then at one point it was chalk and it became like a tradition for students to go up there every year and re-chalk it so that the B would be right when the school year started. And now it's literally white fencing over a black tarp. So that way it really pops. I didn't know that. So people that are usually either in Burbank, the town, or go to Burbank High School think it stands for Burbank. But if you go to Burroughs, I think there's this weird obligation to think that the B stands for Burroughs.

And because of that, as someone who lives in Burbank, I can confirm that Burbank and Burroughs, who are rivals, they do a lot of pranks with the B like during like homecoming like if they play each other wait when you say Burbank do you mean like Burbank high school or like the town of Burbank the town of Burbank and Burbank high school both seem to think okay I didn't know there was a Burbank high school involved and so I thought like when you said oh Burroughs high school and like Burbank play a lot of like pranks. I was like, Burbank is like a grown ass city. Like leave the high schoolers alone. But OK, you're saying there's there's also a high school that claims there's B for Burbank.

I see. Yes. Another fun fact, by the way, if you ever watched, I think it was Victorious on Nickelodeon. The school, like they show you like the front of the school in between scenes that's burbank high school um oh so they already have a win you know i know but john burroughs high is like known to be where like a bunch of like celebrities and kid actors go if they want to have a real high school experience like all the seventh heaven kids went there think. And like Matilda went there.

Wow. Tim Burton went to Burroughs. It's like a very big like people in Hollywood went to Burroughs thing. Matilda went there. That means Mrs. Trunchbull went there too. No. Actually, the Chokey is at John Burroughs High. See, they got it all.

They got it all. What's that little girl with the pigtails? They actually threw her over the hill into the Burbank Bee. No! Oh, it's tragic. So anyway, John Burroughs High School and Burbank High School are rivals. And during homecoming season, they'll prank each other and like paint the B, their school colors and stuff like that. Okay, that's fun.

So sometimes it's red, sometimes it's blue, sometimes it's, you know. And another fun fact, if you were to look at the mountain and then go to the other side of it, there's an H for Hoover High School in Glendale, which is the town on the other side of the mountain. Oh, they felt left out. Well, then I was like, why are there so many fucking schools putting letters on hills? And I guess this was a big thing in the 1920s and 30s where hillside letters became very popular, especially in Southern California, but all over the place, platteville wisconsin with this big ass 240 foot m um because towns were it started with colleges and high schools and then towns started adapting it when planes started needing to find their air fields from the sky and so they started putting a letter as like their code of like the airfield is nearby that you're looking for um whoa i didn't know that the very first college or school hillside letter was at uc berkeley in 1905 and they made this big

ass c um and for california i guess and it started this school letter craze and up to like 500 schools throughout the country have put a letter in a hillside because of it. What? And this is crazy. I really didn't know about this. You should look up your schools in your area. I was going to do that last night and write a list of like the ones near you, but I didn't want to triangulate you. But there's maybe even like. I didn't want to triangulate you, but, um, there's maybe even like, um, but yeah, like the university of Oregon, Loyola Marymount, like university of Utah has one. Um, but like all these

schools have a letter somewhere on a hillside, um, school hillside letters. Okay. Let's see. School hillside letters. Okay, let's see. Whoa, wow. Okay, this is interesting. Apparently this phenomenon doesn't seem to have really struck Cincinnati. Okay, well, it has struck Platteville, Wisconsin, and then California. Yeah, so that's okay. How cool, though?

I mean, these look kind of cool. Yeah, it's just like a weird fad that I guess happened, and then it became a tradition to maintain it, so it never really went away. So the Burbank Bee, anyway, likely became, it was part of that fad where all the California schools in the area were doing it. And this is where I go into my second deep dive

that nobody fucking asked for but do you know which hillside spelling lettering is the most famous in california that came out of this fad is it in southern cal? Mm-hmm. Starts with an H. Oh, Hollywood. The Hollywood sign. Yeah.

So it was actually, I wanted to bring it up because, like, when will I ever get to talk about it again? And I feel like a lot of people who didn't, who haven't lived in the L.A. area don't really or maybe in California in general don't know the story of the Hollywood sign, which I'm not going to take forever on it. But I just thought it was like a fun fact that it is a story. You probably don't know about it. So, yeah, like I said, a bunch of towns started doing letters in the hills and some of them got had enough of a budget that they started doing just a full name of an area so that way instead of doing a letter they had a full phrase and that is how we got the original sign uh in 1923 that said hollywood land um and it was it's the most famous example of these letters in the hills. And fun fact, Hollywood Land was actually just the name of like a real estate housing development. It was like just a subdivision that was trying to advertise that they were selling homes in this area.

And it was supposed to be Hollywood Land was the subdivision of Hollywood, the town. supposed to be hollywood land was the subdivision of hollywood the town and in 1923 the sign was supposed to be a temporary ad in the hills to like play into this like big 1920s craze of letters in the hills um and the sign originally used to light up it had 4 000 light bulbs on it and it would light up holly it would light up one by one it'd go holly wood land hollywood land and uh so fun fact it used to light up and then even though it was meant to essentially be a billboard um it had like an 18 month contract but then because it like gained so much notoriety during the time um it was they asked to keep it and the chamber of commerce agreed but they turned off the lights because it was too expensive fair fucking i was gonna say

that must have been like for an advertisement in the 20s to have 4 000 lights on it like they must have been making bank selling these properties i know crazy so the light stayed on for a decade too um oh my god after the original contract and they kept it up, they were like, we want it to light up. And it's like the thing. So if you ever see like a movie portraying the Hollywood sign as like lighting up, you'll know if it's accurate or not. If it says Hollywood land and if the period is from 1923 to 1933. Between that, it never lit up. is from 1923 to 1933 after between that it never lit up um and in 1949 they decided they were going to repair it because it was meant to be up for like 18 months and now it's been up for like 25

years so it's like she's busted and they were like we should rebuild her and i guess the contract stipulated that they would take away land because this whole time it had been promoting a housing development and not the actual town. It was like promoting Hollywood land development instead of Hollywood, the town. So they got rid of land and it stayed up as Hollywood did not light up at all. And then in 1978,

this is the last fun fact I'll tell you about it. A windstorm knocked it down or knocked down some of the words and i guess the first o in hollywood got split in half like cut right down the middle so it looked like a lowercase u and then one of the other o's in wood got completely destroyed and so if you looked at it for a long time, instead of it saying Hollywood, it said Hollywood. And people started that was the beginning of people like making fun of the name and like using it during campaigns. So like the most recent one was like when weed was became legal here. The someone went up and like changed the letters to spell Hollywood. to spell hollyweed like so yeah it was the anyway so when it said hollywod this led to like this big like star-studded restoration campaign and do you know the name of the a-lister or the celebrity who

uh was really in charge with restoring the hollywood sign um do you know what year it was or like about 1978 uh but you don't have to understand i have no idea i have no idea kind of it was hugh hefner uh-huh okay okay okay okay hugh hefner, because there's nine letters in Hollywood, he got, it was him, and then he got eight of his friends to each donate, at the time it was $28,000, but in today's world it's $130,000. He got him and eight of his friends to each select a letter

and donate today $130,000 to restore it, to put Hollywood back together and like have it maintained. Wow. Okay. And so I assume he got the H. He got the Y. Oh, okay. Nevermind. But you would think H for Hugh Hefner Hollywood. Yeah. Right. I would think. But I guess, you know, somebody really wanted that H, one of his friends, maybe. I don't know. I guess so. but he got the y

and then other people who were involved were alice cooper gene autry he got warner brothers records to uh sponsor one of the letters anyway that is the long-winded double double deep dive of um i love hillside letters i mean like come on like that's fascinating and then do you ever start spinning out where you're like imagine if we didn't have the internet like we would just literally like nobody would know you just there's no way to know these things you know i know anyway yeah it's um what i'm more fascinated by is the fact that there was a time without internet and enough was preserved to end up on the internet where i'm like yeah yeah and it makes you wonder like what are we missing like i'm sure there's so much we lost anyway oh yeah i'll have a cry about it later

yeah take a weed gummy and you'll really have a spiral i'm gonna call jordan late i'll call jordan anyway in case you forgot we were talking about the nodolf incident um and we left off forever ago where all you know so far is it's a big old area full of effigy mounds and a mining school came in and they put a big m in the hill um in one of their homes okay okay and a letter m to be clear uh not the exciting effigy of m that I thought had been erected as a monument, but the letter M. If anyone would like to put even like a bobblehead-sized statue of me somewhere, you can. I approve. You go for it.

Okay. All right. So the story really starts now with, okay, so now it's a mining town. People are very proud of that. Now with, okay, so now it's a mining town. People are very proud of that. And then this guy named Charles or Carl, depending on the version you hear, Nodolf or Nodolf, he moved to the area from Germany.

Now there's two versions to the story. There's more of like a legend version. And then there's like the, what facts have told us version. the what facts have told us version. The more folklore version is that Carl bought a cottage within view of the plat mound. And that was, that happens to be the one with the M in it. Fun fact. So he was within view of this mound and he bought a homestead there,

but weeks before he, before he officially moved in with his family, he had to go back to Germany to bring his fiance over. His fiance's name was Caroline. And he was going to bring Caroline over from Germany. She was going to meet him back at their home and they were going to live happily ever after. But she ended up dying of diphtheria during her travels and the outbreak

actually claimed most of her family who was traveling with her and so everyone but her mom and her sister ended up surviving or ended up dying sorry everyone but her mom and her sister carl felt like an obligation to her family that they just lost everyone he just lost his fiance and so um he had them move into the house with him uh so that way they could stay a family and he would take care of them uh to honor his wife or his fiance that's nice he's like we didn't even get married yet and you could all move in yeah it's like there's only three of us left now which is sad quite a commitment um carl and the who would have been his sister-in-law louise fell in love drama um and i mean his fiance wasn't there so i guess technically he didn't do anything wrong and so i mean yeah but then it kind of feels

like he did something wrong because he had to wait two years until she turned 18. Oh, OK. Got weird. Yep. Yeah. Weird. Spoke too soon. There's no way it can't become weird.

Yeah. So that's the folklore version, which what a lovely tale. Oh, yeah. Delightful. Oh, yeah, delightful. The factual version is that Carl moved to the Platte Mound, the next of the mound with the big letter M in it. But the story immediately takes a shift from there because instead of him having to go to Germany and collect his fiancée and her family, the truer story is that his brother was married into that family and he only knew of them through his brother.

And they had already settled in to town. There was no like traveling to Germany to have to collect everybody. And so there was no diphtheria outbreak. The family was alive and well. They all lived in the area. And even worse than the folklore version, which I like that someone tried to make it a little less offensive. Um, Carl's sister-in-law, Louise, who he fell in love with in the folklore version. He did fall in love with her here too, but instead of her being 16, she was nine.

Oh, it's so much worse. Oh no. And at 18, so this part, the folklore got right at 18 they got married but sounds like someone was waiting a long time gross um i don't know maybe they fell in love on her 18th birthday let's assume um let's hope and pray and and just know that that's not the truth but you know what's the truth we want cover our eyes and go la la la and on her 18th birthday it's there's a wedding the couple made a happy life together they had two kids who they named minnie and lewis so it's carl louise with Minnie and Louis. Cute.

And in 1880, the incident happens. Uh-oh. Where Carl and Louise see a storm rolling through town. And it's a bad storm. Remember, they're like right up on Tornado Alley. Hmm. The storm seemed to be aimed right at them. Interestingly, they said that the storm was so narrow that you could see a clear sky on either side of its path.

Ooh. Which feels super duper ominous. So sinister, yeah. They secured all the shutters. They put everything away that could blow away. They locked all the doors. And pretty soon it starts torrential downpouring. Gale force winds.

They all stay in for the night and they even claim to hear wolves howling over the thunder which like how loud does a wolf howl for it to be over thunder they're probably like let me in it's wet out here banging on the fucking doors um so they're hearing wolves. They all feel very on edge. Well, the adults feel on edge. Their kids at this point are like four years old and two years old. So I don't know if they're on edge. But yeah, so everyone's just like, it's just a weird scenario.

It just feels off. Hours later, after they've slept a little, Thunder shakes the whole house and wakes up Louise. And she wakes up to her daughter Minnie, who's four, crying for help from her own bedroom. Oh, no. Louise goes to comfort her kid. But when Louise gets there, Minnie and Louis are gone. Totally missing.

So she heard them crying for help. and now they're nowhere to be found. What? The couple freaks out and searches the entire house, even though all the windows and doors are still completely bolted from the inside because of the storm. Completely bolted. And they're four and two. They wouldn't, I don't't think even know how to unlock it if if they could reach it maybe they could maybe many could at least but they're too small they

wouldn't have been able to unlock anything anyway and then also they wouldn't have been able to relock it from the outside yeah right so carl and louise are searching for them they know that they have to be somewhere in the house because they're locked inside. And they hear their, they start shouting their children's names, wondering where they are. And they hear their kids all of a sudden calling back to them from outside. What? So Carl unbolts all the doors and runs around and finds them outside standing in the pouring rain. doors and runs around and finds them outside standing in the pouring rain and they grab the kids and rush them inside to the fire to dry them off and get them warm but even though they were

standing outside in the pouring rain seemingly for at least several minutes they were absolutely bone dry clothes hair body as if they had some invisible umbrella over them. Totally dry. It also didn't make sense that Minnie, like, vanished from her room just seconds after calling for help. They heard her in her room. Then she was gone. Then she was outside. So in the time that it took them to find them is how long she allegedly was missing. What in the world?

They kept asking the kids what happened. How'd they get the kids just keep saying i don't know and i mean they're four and two so maybe they really didn't know but eventually the kids tried telling what happened but every time they would try to describe the event they started stuttering and couldn't get the words out and they were not known to stutter but it was almost like they couldn't like they were prevented in some way because they would be talking fine until they had to discuss the event and then they would only stutter. What the fuck happened? The harder they would try to talk about it, the more they would stutter until it was clear that they were never going to be able to explain what happened and give up. And then they would go back to talking about something else and no more stutter what um the family eventually gave up asking because they were like anytime we bring it up they can't get the words out

so let's just kind of hope that one day you just forget this event and you know you went missing and then five minutes later we found you and that's all we're going to chalk it up to yeah i mean i guess the good thing is they were found so at the very least like they don't need to rehash it over and over but geez yeah um and only after this event minnie and lewis both developed stutters which stayed for the rest of their lives especially whenever talking about the event really um they had six more kids later and none of them ever stuttered side note i'm saying stutter because i don't think a lot of people actually know the correct term these days these days but instead of stuttering people now say either child onset fluency disorder or fluency

disorder or a disfluency fun fact eventually the family and what happened to them became local lore and people still can't explain what happened some people think that carl and louise like at the same time without any history of this slept walked in unison and locked their own kids out that's the first theory people go with okay and maybe like i guess you could branch out of like oh maybe they were drinking or something maybe they were like not thinking i don't know or like maybe one parent was asleep and the other parent was sleepwalking you know i mean right carl suggested that this is just blatantly racist that perhaps a group of romani people had attempted to kidnap their kids it always ends up that way doesn't it yeah isn't it you just blame just

blame people who weren't even fucking there yeah so he says maybe they tried to kidnap my kids but the storm made it too difficult but beyond that being wildly racist with and baseless by the way um there were no romani communities in the area romani people didn't travel around stealing children um and also if like why would kidnappers give up after they've already napped the kids you know what i'm saying like yeah it doesn't they already got them out of the house just yeah so if they why would you leave then like leave them whatever it doesn't even matter because it's stupid um it's literally not real uh some say that the house was haunted and speculation is that it was carl's fiancee who was jealous that he ended up with her sister and had kids with her and for 15 minutes only decided to haunt them and then steal her own niece and

nephew that's another version give them back and then give them back oh never mind these kids are too damn much yeah um but also remember like the fiancecé never actually existed in the real version of the story, only the folklore version. True. So it doesn't even matter. The simple option is that Carl and Louise just made this whole thing up. Also, if they did make it up, maybe their kid just happened to develop a fluency disorder at the same, around the same time and they just put that into the story at that age like you're starting to talk you know i mean you maybe wouldn't have even encountered the fluency issue yet you know so maybe it was just it hadn't come out yet you know

or hadn't been recognized yeah that is typically the age that people develop a fluency disorder so they could have just been two things that happened at the same time. I feel like my whole world of like kids speech and all that has been it's you just kind of know all of a sudden you know so much about it when you have a child because it's like all the articles and headlines and like what's you know when to talk to a doctor when you know so i feel like uh yeah that that makes sense that it would be around that age well so far uh it doesn't sound like leona's having any fluency issues when she says wobbly mountain every five seconds so wobbly mountain and uh she might have an ocd issue she might have oh she certainly does multiple people have come up to me and been like um just so you know they're you showing some signs of some perhaps OCD tendencies. And I'm like, I mean, yeah. Is anybody surprised? No.

Yeah. When you're the mom, she's going to have something. But I think it's going to be maybe she's just going to weirdly highlight the same text nonstop on on the screen or something like it's just yeah it could be worse it's like but did she die no like she's fine you know and also like you know at least i know what it is and what to do you know what how to how to handle it because i because i i'm like same girl yeah plus funko lem's got the stash over here. So one day when she's big enough for some Xanax, we'll try some things out. Oh God, yeah, that's great. Yeah, I'm glad we were planning that out. Wait, question.

What was it that you noticed where you were like, oh, there's OCD tendencies? I'm just collecting a little, I'm making a little list just to know for my own. Well, I don't know if it actually is, but I have my own sensitivities because my mom still to this day won't shut up about it that i was and also i don't think it's ocd i i would imagine it's more like hyper fixating but she's also literally fucking like two like she's

allowed to like be like stoked about literally barely but um but my mom to this day will talk about how she should have seen signs of me like being hyper focused on things because there was this one game i would i made up and i would play it non-stop for hours and she'd be like you i didn't even have to worry about a babysitter because i could have left you in this room no way and you would have played this game that you created from sunrise until sunset and you would have never gotten bored by yourself by myself i was also an only child everything i did was by myself i know but i'm like because leona will not play by herself she's like somebody else needs to like walk me up wobbly mountain or be entertained by my drawing skills i don't know what to tell you yeah that was not

how i operated what was the game what was the game it wasn't even a fun game it was just i truly it feels uh it feels like i was just there was we had two dogs at the time and it was like the 90s thing to do where you would get like those like ceramic statues of your whole family like you'd get like the you know like the remember the chair with all the bears and every bear had like a little name precious moments that's what it was. We had a precious moment statue of both of our dogs. And I, I, it was just that I had, I would take one statue of a dog and bring it over to the table and put it in the drawer.

And then I would walk back over and I'd grab the other one and I would walk away and I'd put it in the drawer. And then I'd pick up one of the dogs from the drawer and I would walk all the way back over and put it give it to my mom and then I would walk all the way back over and I'd like I kind of think I maybe I have like some spectrum tendencies also wow that is but I would do it I would truly I would do it for ever like I there's even audio footage of my mom thinking the microphone was not working on the camera apparently and you can hear her go i think something's wrong like oh no okay so she she was like clearly onto something she was uh but she didn't know what it was i think she just thought

i was like really good at self-entertaining um yeah which i was but anyway i don't think uh leona has that yet but if she ever is as obsessed with that as i was with my weird statue game the girl might have some hyper focus issues i well i wish she was focused on something because wobbly i mean she's two but wobbly mountain lasts like maybe five minutes like the longest it ever gets played is like she goes up and down and up and down and up and down and then like 10 minutes later she's like she just like throws herself off and it's like let's draw like nothing lasts oh well then that totally throws off my entire theory so yeah i guess i don't have anything is is more just like if a drawer is open like she will like freak the fuck out you know and has to close every door and door i don't think you need any more of a list my friend right like things

that things that i do where i'm like i just want to make sure that this isn't just my influence, like being, you know what I mean? That she, but it seems to be all her. She just has these like very specific things that need to be the right way. I've never seen you panic about a drawer or a dresser or anything. So maybe she's just got a different flavor or whatever you've got going on. My drawer and dresser thing is very different i have to tap the inside of it three times before i close it never said that to you before but that's that's one of them surprise what yeah um i'm gonna call jordan after i'm texting her right now that's insane um oh she knows i'm just kidding no i i haven't noticed anything yet i know i did not

know that i'm still learning things about you after a whole year of episodes i'm very good at hiding things i knew about your your highlighting text thing but that's because you can't hide that from me when we're on the same google because i can't hide it in a google doc it's a it's a curse and when we used to record remember when we would record in your old house we would sit next to each other as you would tell stories. I was like, this is for an hour and a half. I'd be like,

girl, I can see what you're doing. I'm just glad you didn't have epilepsy. The way, the way I was just like fucking flashing my screen, like you would have been in such big trouble. No, I don't actually see any tendencies just yet,

I guess of, of Leona, but I have no doubt something will appear at some point yeah i mean honestly think about it you know statistically speaking but but she's gonna be a good time i don't even it's like she's just gonna have a quirk if i had a kid they'd have like 10 quirks by now so oh i can't wait i can't wait for that i can't wait for you to buy precious moments dolls of your family and see what happens i'm gonna you know what how about this how about as a gift i buy leona too uh i'll do juniper and moonshine and get her precious moments dolls of your family and see what happens i'm gonna you know what how about this how about as a gift i buy leona two uh i'll do juniper and moonshine and get her precious

moments of them and we'll see what she does with them in a drawer for five hours how about they're smashed immediately like you're there don't even spend money on that they're gone there's no way that she's also related to me like they're gonna crash into a million pieces and it's gonna be like emotionally damaging and then i'm to have to deal with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Eva, if you're listening, we I do. I'll send you the video of me passing the dogs back and forth nonstop. I don't know if I have the clip of my mom saying something's wrong, but she does imply it. So you'll hear it for sure. You can just call her. Call Linda. She'll say it now. She'll say something's wrong.

She would say it now. She'd be like, I she we can get it on audio. She was like, it was my own fault that I didn't take you to a doctor sooner because it was, it's obvious. Something was like, you were self-entertaining way too well. It's all our parents' faults, you know, and it's their parents' fault. It's always everyone's parents' fault, you know? Yeah, mom, it's your fault. You take it up with your own therapist.

They know. You know what you did. Honestly, I was such a fucking weird kid that that one probably just flew under the radar compared to everything else. So I'm not really all that surprised. At least you're babysitting yourself. Like, that's huge. Yeah, I was having a good time. I wish Leona would entertain herself every now and then at least, but no.

You know what maybe she hasn't found the right game a Funko Emble shower don't worry that's not like I got it okay great you handle it um where were we oh oh okay so I only have a little bit left here but um people think that either they made it up, they think that maybe it never happened at all, they think it might be a ghost, they think they were sleepwalking. Some people who did think that Carl and Louise were making it up, they were like, well, maybe they just wanted a story, they were new to the area, maybe that was the way that they wanted things to go. the way that they wanted things to go. But neighbors remember seeing them completely disturbed about this for like months afterwards. Like they could not figure out if their kids were safe or like where their

kids are going because now they're, I mean, they lost their kids with no real explanation. So now they're probably panicked every night that they're going to lose their kids. It was obvious that something happened. So maybe other people think like a poltergeist because that would make sense of like luring the children out, being able to open the door and lock them out. Um, but I mean, people also who go to the area still say that they hear like phantom

voices and creepy sounds at night, but like a poltergeist doesn't usually last for like 15 minutes. It's like an ongoing problem um yeah it's after this it never happened again very powerful thing to happen one time and then like you know it's just odd it would be odd i think but i don't know well this is where we get into christine's favorite which is some people theorize aliens could be responsible i knew it i mean i theorize the second you told me they were outside and they weren't wet. I was like, well, fucking aliens, obviously.

Yep. So many people consider this one of the earliest records of a U.S. alien abduction. And in the I mean, it has the classic lost time aspect where the kids don't know what happened. They don't know how they got outside. People heard them in the house and then all of a sudden they were outside of the house and't know what happened. They don't know how they got outside. People heard them in the house, and then all of a sudden they were outside of the house. And it was minutes later, so maybe for us it felt like minutes.

Maybe they actually were gone for a long time. They disappeared seconds after calling for help, reappeared later. Maybe something happened that keeps them from remembering or being able to describe the experience yeah because they can't talk about it which i they can't talk about it an alien thing right to have like the sudden onset disfluency as if like they did something to like warp their ability to share about it um also it feels like they were shielded in some way from the rain because they were not wet even though there was a literal fucking like tornado outside um or it was like a torrential

downpour and that suggests like technologically advanced things especially for the i it was either like the late 1800s or early 1900s that this story was um so yeah something that they had never seen before uh kept their kids dry and maybe even carl and louise were the abducted ones which is why it seemed like the kids vanished suddenly like maybe they had maybe they had done something to like either save their kids or get their kids out of the house and they just don't remember anything um so anyway if that is to me that's the theory that makes the most sense i know like ufos and aliens are like first you have to believe in ufos and aliens for the theory to make sense but for me it makes total sense that it would be an alien abduction i think it was aliens i'll be honest i i think it was aliens i mean why else

the the dryness the like not being or being so traumatized they can't talk about it or they they develop like this disfluency when they try to talk about it it's so traumatizing they're so freaked out they don't even know what happened they're dry from the rain they're outside of a locked house they're little kids near like an area that has a lot of like, I don't know, rich cultural history. I don't know. I think I think it was aliens. Even think like if like this was way before the 1950s UFO craze. So they wouldn't have even had the context to talk about it.

Like they wouldn't have known how to say a flying car. They wouldn't have even been able to say car maybe i don't i don't even fucking know how far back in history this goes but a flying machine of people who don't look like people like they wouldn't know what to say um for a four-year-old yeah like how do you even a two-year-old he had to just think he was dreaming the whole fucking time it's like this i don't know i have no idea how you process that it's like i mean they say all the time on tiktok it's like imagine explaining this to a victorian child but imagine explaining a ufo abduction to like a two-year-old from the 1910s you know like

they're you just they'd be like i'm sorry i can't talk to you your arms are showing and that's illegal or something and i'd be like oh right i can't even have a conversation with you so let alone like tell you about aliens you know there's so many people who think like if i could go back in time what year would i go and it's like if you were to go back as you are exactly right now like you don't get to change your clothes i'm currently in only underwear if i just flopped onto a field in the 1700s i oh my god i can't even imagine what they would do oh imagine anyway similarly to ufo abductions because uh ufo abductions again that was a big thing that happened in the 1950s but this was before that so if it wasn't a ufo

abduction another theory is that the kids might have been taken by fairies um that time passes differently similarly similarly to ufo abductions if fairies take you time passes differently and in a lot of traditions fairies actually live beneath mounds like the plat mound that they lived nearby um fairies are also said to use magic to prevent people from talking about them, which would explain the disfluency. And a lot of contemporary folklorists say that UFO abductions are actually fairy abductions that were bastardized through an American lens. Because there's a lot of similarities to if an alien abducts you versus if a fairy takes you. But because we're all obsessed with ufos over here our natural between the two is to assume oh an alien right it's just like a different naming of it wow that is

interesting i didn't realize that so could be any of those things i know to this day it has not been solved we don't know um wow whatever happened people still consider the location extremely mysterious and paranormal and even haunted and that is the nodolf incident plaza dude i can't believe i've never heard of that honestly yeah i looked it up to um to try to get more insight there's like shockingly little information out there on it so no shout out to s i mean for the research oh yes thank you sirsha um i typed nodolf incident and it says uh link connect with scott nodolf on linkedin no thanks yeah wow it doesn't have a lot of quick links yeah that's that's wild what a a story. Well, I think it was aliens. So that's my hot take.

I also think it was aliens. Or fairies. Great. One of the two. I think it was aliens. So here we go. I have a story for you today that I've been wanting to do for a very long time. And it is the story of the lipstick killer.

It's interesting when you say that you wanted to do something for a long time, because the fact that I feel like I know you so well and I know what's going on in that twisted little brain of yours. But then you just say things like that. And I'm like, I've never heard of it. So I clearly didn't know what you were thinking about this whole time. But you didn't know about my drawer tapping. So, you know, there's a lot you don't know. I'm a secret vault the way that i will be clocking that from now on though like a hawk is very you won't see it i've hit it my friend my whole life i think i just haven't there's a reason nobody knows about

it i don't think i've seen you near enough drawers if i take you to like an antique store with a bunch of furniture though maybe i open a bunch of doors to drawers and just see what happens. You know, just like be like David Attenborough, like the specimen walks toward the old armoire with her little fingies outstretched. She thinks no one can see her. But if she doesn't tap the inside of the drawer three times, her whole family will die. So let's watch. It's fun. We have fun. Yeah. Well, we laugh because if we don't we'll cry yes i understand that's uh one of my gifts make everything make everything sad okay here is the lipstick killer which i said to you like oh that you

would know it but i guess not but i remember one of our earliest episodes like truly like three or four I mentioned this guy and I and you said oh you should cover that someday so you did at one point know about it but I think in my mind one whole dog year later you're doing it Christine I'm very excited I know just for you even though you have no memory of that apparently um but you might actually remember one part of it that is like the the famous visual element of it so we'll see if you we'll see if you pick up pick up on it but this is the story of the this is actually a two-parter okay folks so buckle up um yeah yeah so it's the story of william hirons and uh we're just gonna start off with his childhood. So he was born in Chicago, William George Hirons, in November 1928, which was just about a year before the notorious Black Monday stock market crash of October 28th, 1929, which, you know, sent the U.S. into the Great Depression and started that whole era. the Great Depression and started that whole era. And at the time, he was the son of a florist. His father had a flower business. And when the Great Depression hit, his flower business went under.

And of course, like so many families in that era, William, who went by Bill, his family was thrown into poverty. And that's how he grew up. So in addition to being impoverished, his parents argued constantly. So he had a very, very high tension and strained home life. But, you know, plenty of kids were in this exact same position and had to find ways to cope and entertain themselves. I guess they could have used a little precious moments of a dog and put it in a drawer and that might have done the trick, but I don't know if that was an option um but for what it's worth bill was very creative he loved to draw he was very like into arts and crafts he liked to tell stories to his younger brother and he liked to tinker and try to fix things around the house but he was largely unsupervised and as he got older, he, as some kids do, tended to gravitate toward more troubling

ways to fill his time. For example, when he was 12 years old, he worked as a cashier at a grocery store, which by the way, imagine being 12 and like you're supporting your family by working at a grocery store. It's just so sad, you know, it's just really sad. so he's working at a cashier and one day he got his math wrong during a transaction and he accidentally short changed his drawer by about a dollar which today is about 21 yeah so that was not good and he knew he had to like find a way to make that up to get a dollar so he ended up stealing a dollar from someone else to avoid getting in trouble and oh yeah yeah so it's basically like he was trying to get to keep things right and then it just went sideways you know um and so the way that he was uh stealing this dollar he reached through a slightly ajar

door in an apartment building um and it had a chain lock but it was like slightly open so he reached through where the chain lock was and there was an open purse right inside the door and so he that's convenient stole the dog wildly yeah wildly convenient i mean i think he wandered around looking for like an open apartment to steal from i don't think it was like he didn't just like manifest a perfectly open purse, you know. I mean, maybe he did. I don't know. But he's he happened to find somebody who had left their door open and he was able to, you know, reach in and steal some money.

And when he did that, he got a thrill out of it, which is where things go wrong. He began stealing regularly. He went after anything from money and expensive property like guns and radios to things that were pretty much useless. Just like so he sometimes he would just steal for the sake of stealing, you know, like not a Les Mis situation, but like more just for funsies. And so, of course, on the one hand, his family is struggling and he's helping to provide a little bit for them in Les Mis fashion. But on the other hand, some of the items he stole included men's boxers, handkerchiefs, things that like he just kept as like little trinkets, not actually to support the family. And he later claimed he actually never sold anything he stole, like the

things he stole were not for profit. It was just like for the thrill of stealing. And there was something about stealing that sort of relieved, I guess, home life tension like it was able it was like an outlet for him and uh it became his favorite hobby um later when his parents asked him what a neat little daily activity i know it's like he didn't have a hoop and stick so why not pilfer pilfer christine for the rest of our days i don don't know what it is. I don't know what episode we started saying hoop and stick, but like that. I don't either. It was, is, and always will be the funniest thing that can come out

of your fucking mouth. I know. Why do we say it? I just love it. Why don't we sell our own hoop and stick yet? I don't understand. We have to. We've said that once a year, every year. We need to find it. How hard can it be to sell a hoop and stick how hard it's two pieces of wood it's a hoop and a stick it's a hoop and a stick it sells itself okay so

he he started this great pastime um and later his parents asked him like when this all started and he said he got the idea from comics and radio shows that made stealing seem like a thrill. So after this sort of petty crime spree, of course, he was eventually going to get caught. And he finally did in June of 1942 at age 13. He was caught breaking into a locker in a basement near his home. And he was sentenced to a, yikes, Roman Catholic juvenile detention center in Indiana, which is like sort of a correctional school, but with very strict Roman Catholic oversight. And apparently he was a stellar student there. He followed all the rules. He was well behaved.

He got good grades. He was well behaved. He got good grades. And so when he returned to Chicago, it was almost like he had been reformed. But he, of course, fell quickly back into his old habits because he just could not resist stealing. And he was arrested again. He was sentenced to another Catholic institution. This time it was a private school in Peru, Illinois. not Peru. Um, the Midwest side note. Yeah. The, the, the Midwest loves to like create, I mean, I was talking to my brother and I talk about all the time, but there's a town in Kentucky called Versailles, which is spelled like Versailles, or is it in Indiana? I don't know, but it's called Versailles. Like, I feel like people just love to take like European stuff and then pronounce it wrong in the Midwest. Um, so for all I know, it could be like Peru and not Peru. I don't know, but Peru, Illinois. Uh, I have no idea how it's pronounced. Um, but while he was there, Bill thrived again, like this sort of structured school environment really worked for him. Um,

and when he was just 16 years old, he qualified for a new program that admitted excelling students to the University of Chicago based just on academic merit. So like he really kicked ass in school. He skipped his senior years of high school and went immediately to college to get a bachelor's of science. And what he wanted to do was become an electronic engineer. So in later 1945, Bill was 17 years old. He was starting this new life. He was living on campus at the University of Chicago. It like looked as though he had totally turned things around. He started doing some legal hobbies like ballroom dance classes, which like what a turn of events to go from petty theft to ballroom dancing. That has a new Hollywood blockbuster film written all over it.

It really does feel like a West Side Story or something of a, I just think, or like an Oliver Twist, something where there's just a lot of theft and a lot of music and for no reason they're, they just go hand in hand. I told you Les Mis, did I not? I've thrown that out like three times now. You're right. You're onto something for sure.

I've, by the way, never seen Les Mis. So you know what? I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm pretending. Crime and singing. It's vague enough. It makes sense. It's French, all that shit, you know. So he starts his legal hobbies as in ballroom dancing chess he got

really into classical music like he is nerd now in the best way um he was pretty popular he was socially very successful had an active dating life um one member of his dance class later said bill was the most popular boy there describing him as handsome smart and a good dancer everyone wanted to be his partner. But internally, Bill really was struggling, which people didn't realize. His classes were more difficult than he anticipated. I mean, keep in mind he's 17 and like all he's ever known is like this life of working and trying to support his family and stealing. And now he's 17 and is like thrown into college campus. And so he struggled with his classes.

He had to work a lot harder than other students to keep up. And one source says that Bill's mother had raised him to have a very puritanical view of sex, that it was that it was wrong. as a Catholic school child, former child, I can at least attest that I'm sure in his reform schools, it was frowned upon and talked about as a bad thing. So I don't know if his mother said it, but at the very least, I'm sure the Catholic upbringing didn't help.

And so he had this extreme anxiety about anything sexual. Like he would cry if he even kissed a woman or he really, really, I don't know. This is again, I want to be clear too. This is just one source that claimed this. So I'm not 100% sure if, just take it with a boulder of salt, as we say. But it does add a little bit of texture to the story if it's true um that he would sometimes even get sick when he kissed women um which you know that

could be a number a whole host of reasons why that would happen the irony the irony of purity culture being your demon like like your big yeah the skeleton you have to deal with right right right i mean you know and i'm sure there's all sorts of probably tangled stuff in one's mind if if you're in that state but his anxieties piled up um and bill just like couldn't cope very well and so he turned back to his favorite hobby his favorite pastime which was burglary. And as he started this getting back into burglary, the U.S. meanwhile was trying to climb back out of its, you know, Great Depression financial crisis. And we were creeping toward the end of World War II. But still in June of that year, a lot of media focus was about World War II. And so when

43-year-old Josephine, known as Josie, Alice Ross was found murdered in her Chicago home in June of 1945, that didn't even make the front page, even though under normal, in a normal climate or normal climate, but like in a normal news cycle, that would have been front page news. But because of World ii um it just didn't even make the front page and so what happened in that case which wasn't widely known at the time but of course we know now is that an intruder had broken into josie's home wrapped a skirt around her face and neck and stabbed her multiple times in the neck oh my god and and and sort of hid her face with this skirt and even weirder is that her wounds had actually been taped shut with like mechanical tape like somebody was trying to like fix them

yeah or like hold in the bleeding or something so like or something yeah oh my god yeah it's it's really disturbing um so yeah like as if somebody was trying to stop the bleeding or Oh, my God. boyfriends but all of them had solid alibis so in the end they thought oh well it was probably just a burglar who was surprised by josie uh having assumed nobody was home and attacked her randomly um which didn't quite match just because of like the specificity of like putting that like all the very specific parts of it don't really add up to me that someone was there it would be really hard for me to like my first thought would not be first of all if i was going to kill somebody i don't really know what my first move would be but i don't think take a skirt and put it over their head and then mechanical bandage them yeah yeah that part it doesn't really add up to me um so that was just kind of the only thing they had to lean on was

like i guess it was a burglary gone wrong. But on top of that, nothing had been stolen. So, again, it just seemed unreasonable. And what they did find was a bit of dark hair clenched in Josie's hand. Oh, good for her. Good girl. Yeah. Yeah.

But of course, this is well before DNA analysis. So at the time, it really didn't mean much of anything. And so the investigation hit a dead end and they just thought we'll never solve this. But six months later, things had totally shifted. The climate had changed. World War II was over. Soldiers were coming home. Things were looking up financially. I mean, we're heading into that like night, which is one of my most fascinating like deep dives, just the kind of like Pleasantville-esque nature of the 50s where it was like everybody's home.

And don't think about anything that happened 10 years ago. Like, look at my caporal. Half of the population is shell shocked, but let's keep coasting. Let's keep taking Valium because we can't function. I just find that whole time in American history very interesting but anyway so the media of course were like all right let's move on from this war this depression let's find some new news to talk about so in 1945 on December 11th when 32 year old Frances Brown was found murdered in her home

the news outlets were like all right we got a big story here. And she had been killed the day before on December 10th. And her head had been wrapped up in towels, much like Josie's had been wrapped in a skirt. And she had also been stabbed in the neck, just like Josie had been. And there was a bullet wound in her head. And like in Josie's case, nothing had been stolen. So, odd. A little too similar to Josie's case to discount. They also found a bloody fingerprint smudge on the door jam of the apartment. But what really

attracted the media was a message that the killer had left at the scene of the crime and this message oh i already have goose cam okay we'll post it it's actually one of our first instagram posts that we ever posted on and that's why we drink in like 2017 uh-huh uh it's written in lipstick across a wall and the words read for heaven's sake catch me before i kill more i cannot control myself oh chilling also like yeah in lipstick okay i was wondering when the lipstick would come into play but that's yep oof i'm gonna send you uh i'm gonna send you a picture of it because i think you might recognize it I feel like this is the thing that I showed you

way back when and then I posted it on Instagram back in 2017 but it's like really disturbing to look at and we'll post this as well on Instagram I immediately recognize it

right and the handwriting is particularly chilling I don't know what it is about the handwriting but it's like kind of chicken scratch but like some of it's incursive but like some of it looks like a five-year-old drew it and it just it looks almost like I know this isn't the case because someone's like at the same time begging to be found but it seems like almost zodiac killer writing it seems like like a an intentional writing to not be caught yeah i think what like really gives me the heebie jeebies about it like what you said is that the letters are all kind of different it's almost like

ransom letters where it's like yeah yeah some are lowercase some are uppercase uh oh it gives me the creeps it's like they're all it looks like somebody was like learning to write each letter almost it's like each one is very yeah it and even the l is like kind of a loop but it's just odd it's very odd very chilling very unsettling um and so they found that across the wall of this murder scene and of course the papers jumped all over this um and they dubbed the culprit the lipstick killer, because, again, this message had been written in lipstick. And this sent Chicago into a frenzy because this killer who had written this message had promised he would kill again. So now they're like, shit, he's out there somewhere, you know, TikTok, he's coming for us.

So women who lived alone, of course, felt this deep seated fear that they could be next, especially because the first two attacks had seemed seemed pretty random. And then weeks later, on January 7th of 1946, this is very sad. Just a warning. Of course, it's sad. It's all sad. But James Degnan entered his six-year-old daughter's bedroom at about 730 a.m. to get her up for school and discovered she was missing. And James and his family lived in a pretty affluent neighborhood. And so police were very quick to respond and, like, you know, come out full force to search for six year old Suzanne. And what they found, which they didn't

notice at first, because they just they just kind of like skipped over it. But when they looked closer, there was a wrinkled, crumpled up note in Suzanne's bedroom. And this note demanded a ransom for Suzanne's safe return. And the note advised James, Suzanne's father, not to involve the police or FBI and instructed him instead to send $20,000 in exchange for Suzanne in $5 and $10 bills and then burn the note for Suzanne's safety. So burning the note, thank God, didn't happen because when they took a closer look, they found a fingerprint on this piece of paper. And fingerprints were something we were paying attention to. Yeah, we had that figured out by this time. By the 50s, yeah, we knew about fingerprints. I just never know. I always get my fucking hopes up and then I forget that DNA wasn't like a universally discovered thing. Yeah, it's a fair question. Yeah, yeah, I do.

So whether the abductor ever actually intended to return Suzanne or if he was just like punishing James for involving the authorities when he said not to, it's unclear. But either way, Suzanne was tragically found dead roughly 12 hours after being reported missing. And it's really gruesome and really horrible. The killer had dismembered her remains and moved them to different parts of town. The first piece of her that was discovered was her head uh it's just so fucking horrible um an anonymous tipster spotted the remains in a sewer near the degnan's home and her right and left legs were found in three separate drainage sites like catch basins and storm drains and her torso and arms were eventually discovered

in other drains and sewers um so this is just an incredibly horrifically dark and twisted person who did this oh my god and so eventually investigators uh searching the neighborhood discovered the basement where suzanne had been dismembered. Like they were able to say, this is where it happened, but evidence suggested that she had been killed elsewhere in a location that they just could not find. So they knew the like basement area where this had happened. Chicago erupted over this monstrous crime, as you can imagine.

And police didn't quite make a connection yet between this murder and the lipstick killer murders because they were nothing alike at all. Josie and Francis were both adult women. They were alone at home. They were killed in similar ways. They had their faces covered as though like remorseful. The murderer didn't take anything, didn't leave a ransom note. And meanwhile, Suzanne was abducted from her bedroom while her family was home uh and they they actually found a ladder outside in the backyard that had been used to reach her bedroom which is i mean talk about like a fear like a childhood fear that somebody could like get up to your window it's just fucking terrifying um so the killer was after money which was not the case

in the other two murders. And the dismemberment was completely different as well. Like, so it just didn't really match up. Yeah, it's like he's experimenting with new tactics or something. Yeah, or it's a totally different person. Just saying. So the coroner's expert declared that Suzanne's body had been dismembered with terrifying precision so i just say that because yep because you had mentioned um like experimenting and it sort of

didn't come off that way it was like no no this person knew what they were doing they weren't like trying things or messing around like they had very very carefully done this and had planned to do this um and so the coroner's expert basically believed the killer had a background in anatomical studies dissections perhaps butchering um and according to him not even the average doctor would know like would be able to pull this off because i guess there is, um, this is disturbing. Like all of it's disturbing, but, uh, obviously, but, uh, just particularly one of my issues, but, uh, there is apparently one spot you can dissect a torso or like separate a torso from the, from the legs, I think, without cutting through bone. Like there's just one very specific

part of your spine. And that is where she had been dismembered. So whoever did this, knew how to do it in like, the most efficient way. It's just something not a normal everyday doctor would know. It's something either a surgeon or somebody with like very precise knowledge would know. So at first, um, they were desperate for a lead. So they arrested this guy, 65 year old Hector Verberg, and he was a custodian in the Degnan's building who also worked in the building where Suzanne was dismembered. And to clarify when they found the basement where she had been dismembered, this an apartment building so it wasn't like one one specific family's basement that they could point to sure who lived there it was like a general a lot of people lived in this building and this guy happened to be a custodian in the degnans building and in the building where they found this dismemberment site and uh because he

was the custodian he frequently went into into the basement and it seemed like a suspicious coincidence, but it really wasn't. He it made sense that he was a custodian in multiple buildings in the same neighborhood, like he was hired to be a custodian. It wasn't that unusual that he was in both. He had a connection to both buildings but yeah police really wanted heck yeah yeah and so police were like yeah yeah yeah but it's so weird and so they arrested him and they demanded he confess um they even put pressure on his wife to make some admission proving hector's guilt but she was like he didn't do anything and he was instead subjected to a 48-hour interrogation he was physically tortured and psychologically tortured

mentally tortured they denied him food they blindfolded him they beat him they hung him from the ceiling by his arms yeah uh oh my god that's medieval shoulder yeah i mean it right it is it feels very very arcane and what year was this archaic i mean um 1946 i believe yeah that on on called for unheard of like unnecessary i mean all the way through unnecessary for sure definitely uncalled for definitely not unheard of unfortunately um but definitely uncalled for and they dislocated his shoulder and after he was released hector stated anymore and i would have confessed to anything but he held up he held on to his innocence this whole time and apparently after he got out of the police station he went straight to the hospital and uh he and his wife ended up moving away i mean imagine how

traumatizing that is like they're like okay you can go and you just i can't imagine i don't know how how society didn't crumble just uh just as with the mindset of like if i beat someone into saying whatever i want them to say they must be guilty like how did we how did we survive as a species with that poor ass thinking is wild i mean i think it's just let the people who were in charge keep doing it keep being in charge because they were like oh you're a witch sorry you can't you can't be you can't live anymore so i'm just gonna kill you i don't know i think it just boggles the mind to someone who never as someone who never had to like we're just it's moments like this from like i'm so lucky that i was born not in that time like but it's oh god it's just yikes i just it's just so hard to wrap my head

around how that was a working system i agree yeah it feels very hopeless you know and i mean this kind of thing still happens so it's not even like we're that far off from it um but yeah so the hector and his wife sued the police department and they won um and the police was stuck with his hospital bill which i think was like 18 grand or something um it was a lot of money but yeah but hector still suffered the emotional turmoil of course and the trauma of this and now a social stigma of like everybody staring at him like, are you the fucking guy who killed that little girl? Right. And he felt like the accusation cast such a shadow over him and his reputation that he and his wife had to leave town.

They couldn't live there anymore. And so now investigators have done fucked up and they're back at square one and they decide to pursue another trail and near the degnan's home they had discovered some blonde hairs and a wire that they thought had maybe been used to strangle suzanne and near those items they had also found a handkerchief which was monogrammed and like embroidered with the name S Sherman. Okay. So police found records that a recently discharged Marine named Sydney Sherman was living at a YMCA in Chicago.

And so they went and found him. And when they arrived to question him, he had abandoned his living space without notifying anyone and had even left his job without collecting his final paycheck so it seemed a little bit like yes like maybe he was on the run um an extensive manhunt ensued and they located sydney several days later in good old toledo ohio uh where he had eloped with his girlfriend and when they found him they were like hey we got your handkerchief and he was like that's not mine and they said yes it is and he said no it's not and

he passed a polygraph test so there really wasn't anything they could do about it um you know we know a polygraph is not admissible evidence but they didn't even have that to go off of to like pressure him so they basically had to let him go uh and turns out it was not his handkerchief so after oh my god it wasn't even his handkerchief uh they actually eventually found the real owner of the handkerchief a guy named seymour sherman um not sydney sherman yeah so seymour was like oh yeah that's my handkerchief and he cooperated with the police and he was able to prove that he my handkerchief and he cooperated with the police and he was able to prove that he wasn't even in the country when suzanne was killed so okay we

don't know how he had nothing to worry about yeah he was fine um he didn't have to hide in toledo or anything uh but his handkerchief nobody knows how it ended up in suzanne's neighborhood um even to him like he still couldn't say how that ended up where it was. He's like, I have no idea. But his alibi was airtight. So now they're at another dead end. And at this point, police announced several times to the public that they had captured Suzanne's murderer. And so people are thinking like, oh, it's Hector. They've caught him. Not Hector. Oh, it's a Sidney Sherman. They caught him. Nope, not him. Oh, it's a Sidney Sherman. They caught him. Nope, not him. Oh, it's Seymour Sherman. Nope, not him. So they're basically like

running against a ticking clock and the public is getting pissed off because they're like, you keep telling us you got the person who did this and then- Right. Figure it out. You let them go. Yeah, figure it out. So the killer or killers were still at large. And of course, the media is now starting to turn on the police and saying like, hey, you're not handling, they're not handling this right. They're not getting any answers. And this pressure was mounting. And now we cut back to good old William Hirons, aka Bill. We're now looking at him in late June of 1946. He's doing pretty well for himself. He's enjoying the summer between his freshman

and sophomore years at University of Chicago. He's still doing his little hobby of petty thievery. And he had actually stolen enough money over this time to purchase $1,000 in savings bonds. So he's like stealing, but then he's like using it to try and, you know, I don't know. It's like a weird self-reliant situation yeah yes yeah like lay miz i mean come on folks okay so am i wrong maybe probably uh so

so stupid oh again i've never seen it um so bill was scheduled to go on a date with a girl he really liked so he headed to the post office to cash the bonds to get some money to take her on a date and uh he took a revolver with him apparently for protection because he planned to walk home with a thousand dollars cash in his pocket and today that's about 16 grand so he's like i'm walking home with 16 grand in cash i'm bringing my gun but uh the post office was closed so bill oh billy billy billy decided to steal some cash for his date on his way home class act stupid stupid stupid stupid you know what he was determined to go on that date he said she's gonna he wanted it to be nice allison why don't you steal 16 grand for a date with me i'm

confused wait a minute i mean maybe she does and she's just better at it you know maybe she's maybe she's just like me and my drawers you know my drawers i meant my drawer never mind unassumed yeah yeah nobody just like just like just like you get it finally finally you get it so he decides oh well my cashing this at the post office isn't gonna work so i guess i'll just steal some and unfortunately as we probably saw coming he was spotted mid-burglary chased down by police officers and cornered and panicked he pulled out his revolver and there's a disagreement on who fired first of course the police say that bill pulled the trigger but the gun misfired and then police opened fire bill denied ever attempting to fire the weapon i I'm not sure I trust these particular cops at this point

after having tortured someone into confessing. So I'm going to say I'm not so sure about their version of events. But either way, he was brandishing a weapon and an off-duty police officer in swim trunks because he had spent the day with his family at Lake Michigan and was just like off the clock but happened to be there. He overheard the day with his family at Lake Michigan and was just like off the clock, but happened to be there.

He overheard the situation. He intervened and he smashed three flower pots over Bill's head, like fucking Looney Tunes style. Acme. They must have said Acme on it, you know? All he needed was a piano or something. An anvil, right? Just like Les Mis.

Like a piano. Yeah, just like Les Mis. Yes, exactly. It's the same thing. And so he smashed three flower pots over Bill'sed and then murdered and dismembered. And so the kind of closeness, the proximity of this arrest kind of struck the police. And this connection to the crime basically would seal Bill's fate. He ended up being taken in as Suzanne's murderer. But things, of course, were not then and still are not as black and white as investigators would ultimately try to make them.

And the case to this day is extremely controversial. But we'll get to that in part two. Oh, Christine. Just like Les Mis. Just like Les Mis, ending on a cliffhanger you keep me wanting more that's right that's my inspiration

what a good one Christine isn't that crazy I'm glad we're finally talking about it as if I have been on the edge of my seat for seven years or one dog year you're just being nice I know you've been waiting a whole seven dog years for me to do this and you're just trying to let me off the hook but i know you've been waiting

so here it is well i hope everyone had a good three six five uh i did i know i did um then i that's all that matters man when and i'm not going to get to record with you for so long. So like, that's true. We're gonna have to do a recap for our next episode because I I'm not going to remember. That's true. I didn't time. I didn't time that quite well. I mean, the plan was to do Friday, then Monday, Tuesday. So I had planned to do them day.

Yeah. But unfortunately, things happen, you know, just like we biz. Yeah. things happen you know just like we miss yeah um so i oh i can't wait to text you every non-laymiz reference for the rest of my my life like i i won't even get the real references like that's how bad that's how much i don't know about like i know that they steal bread to feed their family that's the end of what i know about that show i could literally go i don't know i could literally go walk down the street in my neighborhood and find Hugh Jackman and send you a picture and be like, just like Les Mis. And you won't even understand that.

Like, they're like, I literally don't. I don't know. Oh, my God. So, yeah, I'm already I'm already not understanding. He's in Les Mis. And I feel like every I mean, obviously, I sort of could deduce that. But like, if you just sent me a picture, I'd be like, who's that guy? Isn't that the guy that's familiar from that jude law from the movies isn't that jude law but he was

also in my midst so i feel like that's a little bit misleading um i okay well i have a headache okay i i wish i was taking a weed i feel like I'm taking a weed gummy every time I just listen to your voice. That's the nicest thing you ever said to me. Speaking of which, I was telling Jordan. We'll just end on a Jordan thing. I did give her the compliment yesterday of telling her she has queer energy. And it seems to make her day. So if you meet someone and they give you a nice queer vibe, maybe tell them. Maybe make her day. So if you meet someone

and they give you a nice queer vibe, maybe tell them, maybe make their day. And if they have a problem with it, then that's, you know, already, like that was actually a test. Then you have a problem with them. Yeah, exactly. Just like in Les Mis.

So anyway. I knew you were going to go there. I was like, say it, say it. Well, thank you, everybody. And we are still on tour. Please come see us and come to our shows and make our moms very proud. And and. That's why we drink.