And That's Why We Drink - E370 Therapy Book Club and Satan's Church Fonts

Episode Date: March 10, 2024

It's episode 370, welcome to our book report! Tune in this week to hear if either of us is psychic. We also have some stories for you: First Em takes us through the lore of the Rougarou and the origins of the werewolf as we know them today. Then Christine covers the wild and unsettling case of the murderer Malcolm Naden, one of Australia's most wanted men. And is Clifford the Big Red Dog just a dirty sinner who refused to tithe? ...and that's why we drink!We're almost to the end of our On the Rocks tour! Don't miss our last few shows ever of this very special location. Only a few shows have tickets left! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

Hi everyone, we feel like we're like in the middle of a stick up because my computer has been holding us hostage. A stick up? Isn't it called a hold up? I don't know. I'll say stick them up. Stick them up. No? I guess. I'll say stick them up. Stick them up. No.

I guess. Is that not right? Okay. Well, whatever. A hold up, apparently. We're in a sticky situation. M's computer was not working, but here we are. You're here.

I'm here. We don't know if that's a forever thing. We sure don't. So why don't we seize the moment? Seize the day, you know? Yeah. All right. Why do you drink, Christine?

Oh, my Christ alive. OK, well, guess what? I'm drinking my liquid death, convicted melon flavor. Wait, let me. Which is a clink clinkie clink. Clinkie. Oh, clink. Clink, because I'm also drinking an LB. Watch that break your fucking camera. And why do you drink?

Oh, thanks for asking. I love my new therapist. She's so great. Oh, that's nice. I'm just so happy, but we're having, it's a lot of work already. I've only been there twice and I'm like, this is really exhausting. She's like, I mean, I know.

Are you doing, is she making you do homework? Sort of, yes. I even left with a book. Oh, boy. Oh my God. I know. I'd leave. God forbid.

I'd leave. Yeah. What's the homework? It's to read this book. It's called, oh God, I already forgot what it's called. Uh, where did I put it? I already lost this book. It's called, oh God, I already forgot what it's called. Where did I put it? I already lost her book. Well, hopefully she doesn't know this.

Well, it was a nice run. It's called Journey of Souls, I think. I don't know. She's a little woo, which I love. No, not Journey of Souls. That's a book I've already read multiple times. I forget the name of it. Something about a soul, untethered soul. That's what it's called. Deepak Chopra was quoted on

the cover. I know that and there's a horse on the cover. The Untethered Soul by Alan Singer. Who the hell knows what I'm going to read, but it's about freeing, let's see, freeing yourself from limitations and soaring beyond your boundaries. Okay, so we'll see what happens in that regard. Sounds a little nutty, but I like it. Sure does. It says, embrace the present moment. Okay, I could use a little bit of that instead of dwelling on the past.

Anyway, so it's been really good, but also really overwhelming because I feel like, you know, how it just kind of like unlocks stuff when you start therapy and you're like, oh, shit. I do. You know what's weird though is, well, I'm just thinking like, oh, if I had a therapist immediately give me homework, I'd be like, we are not clicking. That's like, half the problem is that I can't get things done. But no, I've been having...

I've just stopped for any self-help book though. So like, I'm just made for self-help book recommendations. It's like my love language. Yeah, not me, but I would love to recommend some to you. So you could read them and then tell me how they go. Oh, nice. So that way we've both technically read it. Like you could be my audio book.

Honestly, that could actually be really helpful. Like a book club where I just read the books and then I can talk they go. Oh, nice. So that way we've both technically read it. Like you could be my Mario book. Honestly, that could actually be really helpful. Like a book club where I just read the books and then I can talk it out with you. I love this idea. Can we do that? Okay. I would love to do that. You just tell me what I'm missing

and I'm happy to talk about it. Yeah, I feel like I learned better when I like explain it aloud so maybe we could both benefit. Was that the point of book reports? Oh. I sucked at those two, obviously. Oh, there was like no worse homework you could have given me than like a big book report at the end of the week or something. Oh, I don't even like remember what a book report

is. Like, I'm like, is there a diorama involved? Like, I can't recall. I think so. There's like a poster. It's like one of those you wake your mom up in the middle of the night because you forgot to tell her to let them out. And I'm like, I forgot you need to buy glitter glue. She's like, I'd rather die. Thank you. She's like, there's not even a store open that sells glitter glue. Well, that's it. Me, you might say it reasonably. It was like, are you set it to me? That's what it was. And then I said it to my whole family. It was like me walking in after fighting a rabbit's body out of a hawk's mouth covered in blood.

My mom on the phone, mouthing, I'm on the phone. Yeah. That's our childhood. Like, mom, I need glitter glue. And you're just like, you've like just cut your own hand open with the scissors. And she's like, I'm very busy right now. Can't you see I'm on the phone?

I, uh, I have, this is just a kind of a random half tangent off that, but I, we had the same dinner table growing up since I was a little kid and I've made my mom who just did a whole house renovation. I was like, I need you to save the dining room table. So she has a random dining room table stuffed in the basement because it was like, I don't know if it was cheap wood. I don't know what the right word is. No, no, ours has the same thing. Where you can still see all the marks from homework. Yeah. And so I was like, I want to save that. I don't know what I'm going to do with it, but one day I would like to like have that in my house. What do homework on it?

I'm going to put paper on it and put crayon over it and see what the fuck you were writing in your book report. It's mainly math equations. Those were the things I wrote the hardest because I was the most mad. Or why do you wanna keep that? Yeah, so you're expressing your pencil into it. I'm sure I carved something into that at some point. I definitely did.

We had, you know what, I feel like I'm envisioning the exact table, because my dining room table at my mom's, she's like never gonna get rid of because it still has, I mean, for when I was a kid, all the home, like you could see where I sat, you know, like all my markings are still there. And then my sister, where she had a different chair. So like hers are over there.

It's very weird. Very sweet. But decades of that. I've already told Allison, she says it, she agrees begrudgingly, but I don't care. It's kind of a non-negotiable for me at this point because I've decided so hard. To keep that? Well, I guess two things.

Sorry, Allison. The other thing that I really want to keep, which is equally big and clunky and inconvenient for us, I always thought it would be really cool. I saw it, it was so stupid. I saw it in a dream when I was a little kid and I was like, oh man, that's fun. But I feel like that means something in a very woo woo way. Of course it does. I always wanted one day, God forbid,

my mom sells the house, my child's at home, but I wanna save the front door and then I always wanted whoever ends it up with to also save their child's at home front door and then like put them- Okay, you're like, it's equally clunky. I'm'm like I would argue it's a part of a house it's a more than clunky it's like you're gonna move and you don't need it anymore I would like it I feel like it'd be a cool like art installation of like both of

our childhood front doors to be together so I do I do feel like my childhood door growing up if I saw it in person it would be very emotional you emotional. Yeah, so don't even get to ask it with me. Hey, I'm not going to go over there and unscrew it off of whoever lives there now. I'm just saying I understand the sentimentality behind it. Are you just going to put them on your house or are you going to like hang them on? I don't know yet. I feel like I find a way to use them. I mean, honestly, if we just hung them, that would be kind of cool too, because then it's just our doors next to each other.

I don't know what I would do, but I have already made my mom agree to it. So, and I just gotta get Alison's mom to agree to it. Ha ha ha ha. Um, she listens to this. So if this is your first time hearing it, I would like your floor. Thank you.

Hold up, the stick up. I would like you to mail the door. Or whatever it is. Is this a stick up? stick up. I would like you to mail the door. Or whatever it is. Is this a stick up? Give me the door. Anyway, I don't know how we tangent off of that, but I'm glad you're... Why do you drink, I guess?

I should ask you. I don't know. I'm feeling depressed today. Me too. I don't know why. I think I just have... Honestly, I've been traveling so much. Maybe it's just like I'm hitting the low after all the highs. Because even in like the being nervous for

a show or whatever, it's all still a high, whether it's a good high or a bad high. Oh yeah, there's a crash afterward. Yeah, I think I'm just experiencing a little crash. So... Oh well, this might make you feel better. This is my decor right now behind me. It is a good pillow.. It is explain that to everybody Not really. Thanks. Anyway, well, so I'm showed up We went to Toronto and I'm sent us a picture of a location In Toronto that they were going to called the poop cafe with the accent over the e. Okay. Don't even forget about it

So I'm literally went to the poop cafe, I was not having it. I was like trying to explain this to Blade last night when he just covered the pillow. Do you hear the attitude coming out of Christine? This is how she sounded about the poop cafe. It was awful. It's a relentless attitude and I am doubling down. I am not about. You just come up about that maybe.

Maybe. I probably should, but like I won't because I stand by it. I think it's a gross idea. And I don't really, I think I was just, I think you just got really defensive about how much you wanted to go to the poop cafe. And I was like, well, I don't see why you would do that. And then it turned into this big debate

where then I had to double down on, no, I don't find it enjoyable to go to a place called the poop cafe. So M went- Your memory of it is very different than mine, but okay. M went by themselves, then showed up in the car, and I said, that better not be- M said, I have a gift for you. I said, it better not be from the poop cafe.

I said, why isn't it? What is your fucking problem? And then I was like, fine, what is it? And M hands me this giant pillow shaped like poop that says poop cafe. I wanted to give you a gift when you were excited for a gift. I wasn't going to give it to you if you didn't want it. So I needed you to ask. So you like gas lit me into thinking it was something else.

And then you were like, surprise. It's exactly what you hate. Poop. 50%. What's your version of events? I don't remember debating with you all that much. I remember just saying, I'm going to go here and you caused a rail ruckus about it. I went, you don't have to come.

I said, that's ludicrous is what I said. And I think then you took that and you were like, well, you know what, you have an attitude problem. And I said, I sure do. And I think I said, I'm going to go. I'll let you know how it is. And then when I got there, I sent pictures and I ended up having a great time. You sit on the toilet.

Yeah, it is. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I didn't think it was disgusting. I did. Okay, well, all right. At least we agree about that. We agreed day one on that one. I think I just, but if there's a big difference between the two of us, it's that I am very driven by novelty.

No, novelty. I was going to say, I'm in it for the novelty, it's that I am very driven by novelty. No, novelty, I was gonna say. In it for the novelty, that's so true, it's so real. But look what I do have, look what I have lit right behind me is my candle that you got me. That same trip, it says summon and it smells delightful and M and I used it, we lit it in the hotel room while we practiced our ESP,

which you can watch on Patreon. Shout out to Patreon because we found the coolest thing ever, which is a Kreskin's ESP testing game from 1964. I found that on my on my wanderings. Oh my God, it was amazing. My whimsy wanderings. And just happened to get a hotel room right next to me, shows up with this board game from 1964,

and it's been used so it has this pencil, speaking of the etchings and pencil marks, and it has the original people who played it. They're answers and stuff. It's so cool. So we played it. Anyway, you can watch us do it in the green room. I want to go on Patreon.

Spoiler, Christina's not psychic. Okay, but apparently I was the second time we tried it. Of the first time, M was freaky good at it in the hotel, which we didn't film, of course, so we don't have proof of that, but it's true. I saw it with my own two eyes. And was just like nailing it, like arrow, check mark, orange, green, like nailing it.

And then I tried and I got, I was so bad that it was impressive, I thought. Like I was so bad that like statistically I was getting more wrong than I should have been just by chance. Which is kind of a wild thought. But then we did it in the green room for fun and I was like here do it on me because I'm so bad at it. And suddenly I was like, maybe it's a camera. You just need to be on. You just need to be on. Maybe, maybe.

You love an audience. I love an audience anyway. So I forget why I'm talking about, oh, because of this beautiful candle. So I do appreciate your gift and I have this now here. I was surprised you didn't burn it. I really didn't know. I knew I was spending money

that you're probably just gonna throw in the trash. And I was okay with that. You know I don't throw things in the trap. That's my thing Like that's the problem that may be why I'm like a good idea I'm just for the rest of my life a dirty old lemon you would keep I thought a brand new pillow you would throw away So like nothing I will not throw a brand new thing. I cannot bring myself to throw away at the very least I would donate it But I just you know, I can't you gave it to me. It's mine now forever. It's like you're gifting upon me these things that now, I need to do my homework, I think, for therapy. Okay. I need to do my homework. This is starting to really get like, hmm, wow, got a lot of problems.

Anyway. Anyway, I will say the poop cafe was as gross as I thought it would be. Well, it was not as gross as I thought it would be. It's not that precious. But it was seems like they lean more into the emoji side of things, you know. Yeah, I don't understand still, but I wasn't there to understand. I was there to experience. You had a great waffle, you said. They made a really mean waffle. So I mean, and I got a stuffed animal out of it, or Christine did.

The- Oh, wait a minute. I did think it was clever, not fun, but clever, that you had to sit on toilets. Those were the chairs in the restaurant. And then there were murals of poop everywhere. I honestly, it was, I know it was a cute little emoji that they painted everywhere, but it was still a little stomach turning.

So I was like, what? And you know what was the worst part of it was that the menu had nothing to do with poop, which like you should at least have like fun work. If you're gonna lean into it, like you came up with the best one. I mean, it was in Canada. Why don't you have poutine?

You kidding me? Like that's shocking to me that they had waffles. I was like, what is going on here? You need to leave a comment card because like that is out of control. I'm worried that they would lean into the word too much and then things would aesthetically look like poop. And I don't want to eat that. That's where I got a little icked.

Yeah, you know, I mean, now that you're speaking about it so reasonably, we're definitely on a very similar page, but I think. OK. I hope I'm okay. I hope it was nothing. I'm glad we're on the same page now. I listen earlier. I sent Emma photo of something they texted me in or snapchat in me in 2018. And I swear to God, if I said to them, you said this to me in 2018 before my interview at Nickelodeon, M would say, I would never have said that.

But I have a screenshot of it. So just in this moment, I feel like maybe there's a slight validity that is not being extended to me. I feel like, um... And by the way, that message said, good luck with your dull ass personality today. In case anyone's wondering. And apparently I saved it because it was so delightful. And guess what? It worked. I got the job. I like to think I just told Christine through text.

I was like, I feel like our entire our entire friendship is very context necessary. Yeah. And like, I feel like the only reason I would have sent that to you, especially that early in our friendship, is because we had just discussed something about dull personalities. There's no way that I just said that to you. But I don't know. I know. Now a days I'd bebend you for your, to something annoying. And you do that to a lot of people. So I feel like, you know, it's not a question. I have a different thing with every other person though, like yours specifically is I try to tax you on being annoying. And then the annoying thing is you won't pay me, so it works out full circle.

Yeah, then I just like double down. See, this is how this happens, these exchanges between us. I think like one slight rib and then like we both just kind of camp out in like unnecessarily opposing sides, you know, like about the poop. At least on Venmo, that's definitely true. Yeah, at least on Venmo. At the very least, I can agree with you on Venmo because there are two unpaid transactions I'm waiting on for meal and I think I'll be waiting for a long time.

I think what bothers me is that the fee on that one cent is going to be more than the one cent and it like irks me and I'm like, I don't want to like give banks more money just by sending one cent. I can charge you a dollar. You want that? I can charge you a dollar. Well, in that case, take my money. Highway robbery.

Wow. Wow. This is a stick up if I ever saw one. Tell me a story, Emmithy, please. I will tell you a folklore of Louisiana's swamp werewolf. Okay, okay. Are you interested yet to have I captured your attention? You've piqued my interest and it has been piqued.

Its name is Rugeru. Aw. Alright, which I can get into. I feel like you could write a song about Rugeru. You could make a meal about Rugeru. Not like actually with made out of swamp werewolf, but you could eat. You could make a Puguru and sell it at the Poop Cafe. Rougapoo. Poogapoo.

Don't just change it on me. I said Poogarou. I doubled it though. See this is what I'm saying. We're gonna go down in flames over the dumbest thing one day. It'll be over a poop pun or something. But am I wrong on like you could make a Ruga-ru? A Ruga-ru? Like a RU. Yeah. I feel like there's potential there. You could do a lot of things with this word.

And I feel like there's a dance. There's a silly dance to it. Hmm. There should be. A shirt. You could make a great shirt with the word Ruga-ru on it. Anyway, apparently- Is it a kangaroo?

Is that why it's called that? No, we've got, you will learn the name. You will learn how the name came to be. Okay. So it originally starts in France. And France, I guess, apparently has a long tradition of werewolf legends since at least like the 11th century. In print alone, the 11th century. Remember our werewolf and vampire tour in New Orleans? They talked about how the French brought over all that lore. I think you've already picked up on where we end here by saying France and you immediately

go to New Orleans and this is the Louisiana. Well, you said Louisiana, so I just kind of made the connection. Not a hard trip, but you made the job. Good job. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's like when Leona now says, good job, mommy, when I do things because we always

say good job. And so I'll cut up a banana and she'll be like, good job, mommy. And like, if it were anyone else, I'd be like, how dare you patronize me? But it's just so cute because she's too. But she's like, wow, very good, mommy. And like, Pat's your back, you know, which is very adorable. But like, I'm like, I mean, yeah, I know how to cut it. I know how to open a banana. But thank you. That's very polite. So anyway, I'm thinking for the comment. Interesting take. Yeah. But I think your take is definitely the more common one,

but these days, if anyone in my circle says good job to me, I really just own it. And I just like, I ride the high. I'm like, that was a good job. I really did do a good job. I did open that banana. Yeah. Usually if it's someone outside of my circle

or a man in general, I'm like, you are a fucking condescending prick. But yeah, exactly what I mean. But if I were cutting a banana in front of you and you went, good job. I'd be like, I did do a good job. That's nice. So I'm trying to get to know. I'll, I'll put that I'll log that one in away. I like owning the small moments because we forget that some at one point, Christine, you didn't know how to cut a banana. Complimented. That's right. And one time I complimented you making a sandwich and you thought I was being sarcastic. So I feel like... That was before my this new journey. I've been burnt by this behavior. Like I was so impressed and you were like, why are you keep making fun of my sandwich making? And I'm like, I'm not. I'm genuinely like so enthralled by how well you make a sandwich, like genuinely.

so enthralled by how well you make a sandwich, like genuinely. That was before I decided to to to claim the small things. At the time, I had the same mentality as you about cutting a banana, where you would have been like, why are you making fun of me? But now we're trying to turn a new leaf. OK, great. So I'll I'll continue with the words of affirmation. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. I tell myself, good job a lot, too. After I did these notes, I went, good job. And I went, I know. Okay. So, okay. So, well done, Christine. Yes, you have figured out

how we landed Louisiana from here. So, France has had a long tradition of werewolves since the 11th century itself. That's print alone. We have evidence of werewolf lore in France. Some of the werewolves at the time though, which I think is super cool, is that it wasn't always like werewolves were bad. There was just stories of werewolves being good people, but that usually the story usually meant that like it was a good person who was cursed to be a werewolf. Which I guess isn't all that different than today's stories of werewolves, like when you hear the classic like a man turning into a werewolf and he always looks so battered and scared because all he was to be a good person. He like doesn't want to, he wants to avoid the full moon, yeah.

Yeah, so I feel like things haven't changed too much. But there's one example of this I want to mention, which was a poem from the 12th century called Biscov... It's French. Biscov-Vere. Biscov-Raye? Oh God. I keep wanting to call it Biscay. I don't know. Okay. but this is a poem where the poet herself even said, this is not my original work. This is a story I heard throughout the years, but it was in a different language. So I'm just translating it for the French to enjoy. But then I guess she still got like poet credit.

So all right. The reason it is called bis clavre, is it means werewolf? But. Uh, I stand corrected. It's bis clavre is not the French word. It's the original language that this story came in. It's it's called Breaton. Um, and it's an old Celtic language.

Oh my. Okay. So we have no idea how to say it. Yeah. It's called Breaton, and it's an old Celtic language. Oh my, okay, so we have no idea how to say it. Yeah, so even if I'm trying my best, it could say Fred, you know, I don't know. But it means werewolf in the original language. Gotcha. So in this poem, the story goes that there was this Baron, this Baron that was very well liked by the king, and he disappears for several days a week. Nobody knows where he goes.

His wife is freaking out. She thinks he's cheating on her. And she says, please tell me where you're going. He admits that he is a werewolf. Ugh. Can you imagine if Blaze just admitted that now? It's like, God, we've been through so much already. Like now this. So he admits- I thought you were cheating on me. Can we go back to that?

Honestly though, like the vibes that you give, Christine, I would not be surprised if you were married to a werewolf. I feel like that's meant for you. I didn't even feel like that far off. I'd be like, oh, okay, that sounds right. Of all the things, I mean, if Blaze is saying it, you're just gonna believe it for sure because he's over any- I mean, that's it, that's the truth. He's straight shooter, you know? That's part of his disguise,

is that he's a skeptic, but really at night, oh, you know? Yeah, he knows more than he lets on. So he admits that he's been cursed to become a werewolf and he goes into the woods, strips naked, wanders around as a wolf, and then he comes back and lives his normal life as a baron. But very importantly, he lets her know, I have to take my clothes off so I can become

a werewolf, but I have to make sure I hide my clothes and remember exactly where they are because if I lose my clothes, first of all, if you lose your clothes, you're naked and you look very silly to the public. I thought that's a, I thought that, I was like, that is a big deal, but I guess there's another big deal about it. Because if he loses his clothes, for some reason, that is what holds his humanity. And if he loses his clothes, he'll be trapped as a werewolf forever.

They're in his pants? They're in his clothes, he will be trapped as a werewolf forever. They're in his pants? They're in his pants? His humanity? Yeah. Is it in his socks? I don't understand. It's in his undies. It's in the part of the undies that's stitched back up with his name on it.

Oh. Apparently, yeah, so that also makes me wonder does he turn back into a human to then grab his clothes or as a wolf does he have to still have some consciousness? Yeah, underwear on as a wolf. Can you imagine a four-legged dog-like creature trying to put socks on that just looks like a silly tip top. Yeah, I'm literally looking at Geo right now, and I'm like he's done that plenty of times. Maybe he's trying to reverse the curse. I don't know.

Well, apparently he, I don't know that part. I wish I did because that feels like the best part. Maybe he has to kind of like do a thing where he like gets a hat and he kind of like throws in the air and it lands on his head and that's enough to turn him into a human. He's like in a clearing and you glance at and he's like, this dog is just like playing with a fucking bowler hat. Especially can you imagine what he, imagine if he puts his socks on first and then he looks like one of those dogs who doesn't like the shoes and he's walking all crazy before he turns back into a human.

I think that's the curse. Like none of the other shit is a big deal. That would be the curse for somebody to go through that every week or every month. And, Christine, that confirms the age-old question of a dog wearing pants. Is it on all four legs downward? Or is it just? I think it's a horse, isn't it, usually?

A horse? How does a horse wear jeans? Is it four legs? Or is it just a horse? Isn't it usually? A horse? How does a horse wear jeans? Is it four legs? Is it two? I think it's a very transferable question to the situation. Sure, fair point, yeah, indeed. Because if he has to take his socks off, it's only going to be on two of those legs, you know?

Wow, what a conundrum. Anyway, we've answered a lot and nothing at the same time today, I think, with this story. That's exactly right. That's what we've done for seven years now. So he has to remember where he finds his clothes. I don't know how he goes about putting them back on, but if he ever loses them, he's stuck as a werewolf. That's the main part of this. His wife is terrified that he's a werewolf.

She does not take the news well. She's like, I wish you were just cheating on me. And so she knows, I wonder if she also was kind of hoping he was cheating on her because there's a knight in her life who has a quick crush on her. Maybe she thought, let's open this thing up. You do you I do me whatever But instead she's like shit. He's a werewolf. I can't be with this hot night now. So She does instead is she's like, hey mr. Night you come on over to me and Says I know your feelings for me Here's the situation though if you go follow him and steal his clothes while he's a werewolf He's stuck as a werewolf you You and I can get it on.

I think that is grounds for an annulment in the Catholic church. So yeah, you could probably get away with that. I think the knight agreed because he absolutely does that. The second, the first option he can, first opportunity he can and traps the husband as a werewolf in the woods and he marries the wife and they live in bliss quotes for a year and then a year later the king is out hunting with his dogs and they corner a wolf and it's his old friend and it has one. This is a friend. Fred. I don't know.

And I guess he recognizes as he's cornered by these dogs, he realizes that the king is nearby because he's like, oh, those are the king's dogs. I know the king. He's my buddy. Royal dogs. He outruns the dogs. He finds the king, which by the way, yikes, can you imagine being the king and seeing a massive wolf charging you in the middle of the woods? You're here dogs like running toward you and then like a wolf that breaks through. Yeah, that's pretty scary so And I he can't speak he's in wolf form. I was gonna ask so he's like well. I'm her friend Right, but all the king here is is You know like something scary.

Sure. Yeah. But I guess he like charges the king fast enough to outrun the dogs, but slow enough to not totally terrify the king and runs up to him and starts kissing the king's feet as like a, please don't hurt me. Like licking them. Yeah. If I, if a wolf licked me

Let's be clear That would not change my opinion of the wolf. In fact, it would scare me more. I'd be like, oh, he's tasting his snack Exactly. Yeah. No, thank you is prepping his appetizer. He's hungry. Yeah The king however saw this this as a good thing. He was like, oh, hell yeah, this is the most noble, loyal wolf I ever did meet in the woods. Probably because he didn't meet me, but also because he's kissing my feet, kissing the ground, and I'm the king. So he's like, this little guy is going to end up being a friend of mine over at the castle.

We're taking him back to the castle. Oh, wow. Okay, so him back to the castle. Oh wow. Okay. So now he's a pet. Yeah. And can you imagine like getting the news that like King William or King Charles, whoever's the king right now, uh, there's a wolf just chilling. And like the only reason they have the pet wolf is because it looked like the weirdest thing and all the corgis just vanished one day.

And they're like, couldn't have anything to do with the new wolf we brought home, right? Like, what do they think is gonna happen? Like, something good? Oh, they brought home a friend for the corgis, maybe. Ew, that's what they thought. So one day, you know, now that he lives with the king, the knight who stole his clothes and turned him into the werewolf,

he goes to visit the king, because he's a knight. He goes to the castle and he says, oh, what a cute little wolf you got. And I don't know his name, so I'm going to just start calling him Big B. He sees the knight and attacks the shit out of him. I wonder if how he knows that the knight is the one who took the clothes. Yeah, great point.

Maybe he already could sniff something interesting was going on. Maybe, or maybe he stopped by their house, you know, and was like, wait a minute, this motherfucker took my pants. He looked through the window as a werewolf and saw that they were Dancing in the kitchen together night was wearing his underwear with his name in it He's like that's where it went this motherfucker stole my under stole my humanity

Yeah Outrageous and so Somehow he knows somehow he knows and so he attacks the knight and the king and everyone in the castle defends the wolf. And they're like, well, he's been, we know, he knows something. He not must know. But they're like, he's only ever licked our feet and been very kind. So for him to not be so docile to you, something's up. It's a problem.

He's got his reasons and we're gonna let that be. Yeah. So they don't do anything to punish the wolf, they just let him keep living in the castle. And one day the king goes to the area of town where the guy, the werewolf, the baron, where he used to live and they run into his wife. And he sees his wife. He attacks her. He tears off her nose. Oh my God. Yikes. Whoa. Friend, a friend of the king in the poem or the source I saw called it a wise man. I don't know if he was like actually known as the wise man or he's happened to be wise and that's how he was described. But a friend of the king was like, you know what's so funny?

This dog, he only has ever been like that to the night and that missing Baron's wife. So wise. And so people are like, interesting, there must be a connection there. This is a case for the FBI. Yeah. And people get suspicious. They eventually question the wife because they're like, do you know the night? What is the relationship here? Why did both of you get attacked by this

wolf who's just the sweetest, cuddliest thing? Both of your noses are missing and that's odd also. This does also feel a bit like a story for all of us that if someone ever, if our very sweet, cuddly, own little personal at home dog acted weird, we would hold the highest court interrogation possible. It's be like, what did you do to him? No, it's true. I mean, when I walk the street and Geo acts funny

about somebody, I'm like, I'm ignoring, I'm avoiding that person. I don't care if they're like five or like, they're usually five, cause he's scared of children. But, you know, I trust a dog's instincts or a wolf in this case. I think the worst thing you ever did for Gio was have a child because now he's gotta live

with his biggest fear. It's like- But it's almost like, he's like, this one's different cause she's mine, you know what I mean? Like, he's like, cause because we thought we were really worried. We were like, is he going to eat her? But no, he's like this one's mine. I mean, he's like half people.

So I think he just has this like kind of possessive thing with the nanny kind of thing. Yeah, the nanny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you keep bringing things into your home that he could eat. And you're wondering the whole time, will he eat it? Yeah, that's it's a game show show I play with myself and nobody else. Juniper was absolutely gonna die, the first couple. Oh, Juniper and Moonchan were for sure number one on the list, but they are now.

Do you have to look at Juniper every now and then and be like, you are so fucking lucky, they locked you out of the room? Yeah, honestly, you were so fucking lucky. I should have eaten you when I had the chance. I don't doubt it. So anyway, they interrogate the wife being like something's up, our very friendly dog, werewolf, has an issue with you, something's going on. Eventually she confesses, we don't know if it's under duress or whatever, but she confesses and says, I, and I took his clothes and all this stuff and here is clothes.

Take them back, take them back. When he is returned his clothes, the werewolf becomes the baron again. Okay, but just imagine it like if they imagine the specifics of like, here's your jacket and he puts it on and then all of a sudden you see is a naked ass man with his penis hanging out. Like you'd be like, whoa. They're probably like pants first, pants first. Pants for underwear first, that's true, underwear first.

Pants first, we don't know which legs they go on, we'll ask the horse for jeans. See, he turns into a human and his arms just have pants on and he's just like naked everywhere. Or just one arm and one leg, yeah. It's just sideways. Yeah, I feel like this is bound to be an uncomfy situation for everybody.

So here's where it gets a little fruity. I don't know what this means. Oh. Apparently, because the king and him were friends. The king runs over to him and kisses him. Okay, girl. Why? Okay.

And I think it probably just meant like a straight man on man kiss. Yeah, like, oh, it's you, my old friend. It's you. Yeah. I would like to make it gay. So in this version that you've heard on, and that's why we drink Source, M-Shelts, they made out for sure.

Ah, yes. And they loved it. And so did I, hearing about it later. M's weird ass fan fiction. Thank God you waited till he wasn't a dog anymore. That would have been real uncomfy. Oh, I'm saying you're close. There was one. Yeah.

But also, by the way, since we're pretending that they actually did make out, imagine the fucking breath on that guy after being a werewolf for a year. Woof, literally. That's crazy. No, no, no, no. But also think about the king's breath in the 12th century. Was it really any better?

Right, I mean, it's fine. Did he even have teeth at that point? They must have all fallen out. Okay. I made a wood, you know. He gives the Baron his land back. He exiles. This is the king.

He gives the Baron his land back. He exiles the wife and the knight. And legend has it that even her own descendants to this very day are born without noses to remind everybody of their betrayal to Her own husband. I don't totally understand. Well, that's the Wowza, okay. So they're easy to spot I guess. Uh-huh. Yeah, so that's the That's the poem. That's like one of the first written examples of a werewolf in France. But again, remember it was... That was a book report, by the way, speaking of.

Thank you. That was probably the only book report I've ever cared about. If I knew anything about having a personality when I was a child, I think book reports would have been a lot better for me. You would have owned the classroom. Like, yeah, for sure. I've been like, listen, they made out. But can you imagine how

rank their breath was? That's insane. Your diorama would have been so PG 13 and they would have been like, this is second grade. We're calling your mother and she'd be like, I'm on the phone. Sorry, I didn't buy my child glitter glue. It's my fault. Uh, I do remember something about there's a very vague memory. I think I've tried to block it out the best I can.

There isn't, in journalism in high school, there's an ad I did that was very, very risque. I- Oh my, an ad. An ad. There was- What do you mean, like a classified ad? No, it was like for journalism.

It was not for the newspaper, but we were in journalism class and it was like, practice how to like sell an ad. And so it was for Valentine's. You're like sex sells. Yeah. And there was a, it was for Valentine's Day. I remember being like a project during Valentine's Day around that. And they were like, everyone, they're like, everyone pick a different candy and like try to like make an ad. And I remember like doing something

raunchy, like, like doing some sort of, it was just a lot of like innuendos or something. Double entendre. Something like that. But definitely like things a 14 year old shouldn't have been doing. So I probably have to trace that back to my own upbringing. Oh my lord, I would love to find that. We could do that in an hour. I am so glad.

It's one of those things where I'm, it's like, thank God we didn't have social media back then because. Oh, geez, yeah. I would have probably posted about it and been so proud. And now I just like, the thought is too much. So. Let's leave it in the past, right? Yeah. Live in the moment, as my new book says that I haven't read yet. moment as my new book says that I haven't read yet. So anyway, that's the first like written example of a werewolf in France, although it was translated from Celtic languages. So maybe that's like one of the first ones we don't really know.

And as centuries passed, this story would always come about. And it was kind of like it became a bit of a Symbolism or like an archetype of what a werewolf should be in stories and because this story was like oh he was so loyal to the king and he was blah blah blah Werewolves originally From the beginning were given this Storyline of like they're this innocent victim of women. As you say, he's like a victim, yeah. And cursed, but he's still noble and he means well.

And then in the end, he wins. He gets his land back. And then he wins. And then he wins. As centuries passed though, with witchcraft hysteria and like these pan panic spreading through, werewolves got nastier reputations, especially in the 16th and 17th centuries,

France experienced their own werewolf panic similar to the witch hysteria, which I talked about in, I think it was episode 109, I think I talked about it there, which I'll bring back again in a second. Was that like Canthropy? I feel like I remember you. Yeah. Wow, good job. Where that came from. Apparently you did a really good presentation that day because I remember. I guess so. Yeah, and as you're saying presentation I'm realizing every episode is just a book report essentially. If I actually had to

do a book report, I'm like you realize we kind of do that every week, right? We've now come, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so there was a werewolf hysteria back in the 16th, 17th centuries of France. Neighbors were accusing each other of being werewolves, especially when there was some sort of animal attack in town where either a person got hurt or a bunch of cattle would be slaughtered. And accusations flew like crazy and like the

witch trials some people even would try to call out other people for being werewolves just to like have the heat taken off of them. And also like the witch trials numbers of actual victims were very exaggerated but hundreds were accused many were burned at the stake, as you just said, for lycanthropy. And I think we did at some point... Go back and listen to Episode 109, everybody, because I'm pretty sure lycanthropy comes from, like the root of the word has something to do with the moon. I should have done my research. Sorry, everybody. Moving on. One of the stories that came out of this time was this gigantic wolf that allegedly terrorized this town called Jovodon. Yes, that's the one, Beast of Jovodon or whatever, yeah. Yes, the Beast of Jovodon is Episode 109, so I'm thinking I clumped those stories together.

I think that's what happened because I feel like that was the same episode. Etymology of like, canopy. That's why I'm being so quiet. I'm sorry. It's Greek from the word Loulos, or sorry, Lucos, which means wolf. And Anthrope is like a person. I thought Moon was involved in it somehow.

Or I think that's like lunacy is the word that came from the werewolf. There's also the word lunacy had to do, I think with werewolves as well. Wasn't there something this I'm totally I have no information on this. I will sound just beyond stupid, but wasn't there something also with like one of the Harry Potter books when like the werewolf teacher, his name is similar. Remus, Remus Lupin. Remus Lupin.

Do one of them have to do with Lupin means dog? OK, well, there you have it. OK. I'm not going to go further because it's just going to it's just going to devolve even worse. But anyway, Episode 109, if you would like a breakdown of the beast of Jovodaw, I remember that being a really good one. And it was like, it was, I remember there being like multiple townspeople all like. What?

Lupus, sorry. It's like Lupine, Lupus means wolf or dog. OK, OK. I'm glad memory served one percent that day. I took a lot of Latin class in middle school and I've tried to block most of it out but sometimes it shows up. You know one time I tried to buy you that textbook for Christmas. Oh my god I would. Do you know that I can probably go to either one of our dining room tables, take a crayon and a piece of paper and sketch out the entire text of that fucking ass textbook?

Cornelia is written down somewhere on that table. I can't stand it. She lives somewhere on both of our tables. There's no way she doesn't. But I tried to buy you the textbook and I thought because when I had that textbook, when I was 11, which was like what, 2003 or something? That even then it was an old textbook. So I was like, surely this textbook is not the price of a normal, fucking expensive as textbook.

The book I tried to get you with Cornelia on the front, it was like $150. Okay. Well, you know that nothing gets thrown away at my mom's house, right? Or my house. So I definitely still have it. So I will be selling it probably for $150 if that's the going rate, happily. Or you could just send it to me and we can call your Venmo Balance a zero out of zero. How is it? Do you think you've sent me so many cents that it would add up to 150 bucks?

Hey girl, I'm fucking about to. So you know what? I know. Okay, fair point. Yeah, okay. And I'll write it in Latin. How about that? I'll fucking my comment will be in Latin. You try you like and throw up. You try your darkest. Hold them. Hold them up. Hold them up. Cordelia. Okay, anyway, we're on earth. Were we? So, oh, Beesah Jovano. That was a great episode. I remember there being like people like competing with each other to like like be the one to Save everybody by killing the beast of Jehovah. I capture him. Mm-hmm. So During this time because I guess they thought that this this must be like a real beast compared to the other werewolves

We've been freaking out about. Right. There were like, the victims were mutilated a lot worse than any other wolf attack. At the time, there was like 100 wolves that were killed in pursuit of trying to like get the beast, get the one. And the king actually- And did they just turn in? Like they just looked at the wolf and were like,

nope, just another wolf. Like how did they decide they were going to find out? Like it would transform back. Well, this is me trying to like remember something from 200 conversations ago, but I think that, uh, because the attacks were so violent and a lot of the victims weren't even eaten after the fact, which is what a normal wolf would do. Oh, sure. They were looking for like an abnormal wolf.

Okay. So when they found, when they killed a normal wolf would do. Oh, sure. They were looking for an abnormal wolf. OK, so when they found, when they killed a normal wolf, they were like, oh, this one doesn't look like. He's too normal. OK, got you. Patrick, got you. I don't know. He's too normal. Uh-huh.

Even the king appointed hunters to track down the beast, which again, can you imagine King Charles being like, we need werewolf hunters right now. We need them. Yeah, I can actually. Anyway, there was a huge werewolf hysteria at some point, so it really became rooted in their history that way. And then when France began colonizing what would later be Canada, they

brought over several stories of another French werewolf named the Lugeru, Lugeru with an L. Lugeru. And as the story was brought over, Lugeru has slowly over time become more and more Catholic, or like the morals to the story have become more Catholic. It's become of an allegory. Is that the right word? Is that the way to say it? An allegory? Like a religiously symbolic? Like a teaching moment? Yeah, yes. A cautionary tale, if you will. And basically, a Lugeru is a werewolf that you could be cursed into similar to even that

poem from forever ago. But as time went on and this story became more religious, the story turned into you will be cursed into a Luguru if you fail to act like a Christian or go to Easter rives 10 percent to the church or whatever. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. You could become a Lugeru if you did not go to Christmas Eve midnight mass. You could be a Lugeru if you mocked priests, if you didn't tithe, if you...

Now you're going to have to explain this one to me. Failed to put your finger in the Batismal font. Uh-huh. This? What? This. Oh. You know, when we walk into a church, not we, we don't do that, but when one walks into a church and then there's the holy water and you do have a sign of the cross. You do a little piggy-dippin'?

You put your finger in and do sign of the cross. You never seen that? Okay. I've seen it. I do appreciate you doing it 12 times though. I don't know. It felt like I had to keep going. I have, as you know, obsessive compulsive disorder and yeah, religion sure plays a part. That's one thing we've already talked about in therapy. So you know what? I'm ready. I'm ready for it all.

See, my first thought was, and this by the way, might just turn into a bit of a tangent. Sorry about that. But I heard baptismal font and I thought there's a font. Like is it like written on the church? In which case- It's papyrus. Miss Frosier. I was gonna say.

No, that's Satan's church is papyrus. No, that's Comic Sans and Curls MT. I don't know, I can't help you here, friend. In my mind, they're in binders and they're all very, it's the only organized part of my brain or fonts. I was gonna say as someone who was the in-house font expert, what do you think, first of all, what do you think the closest font is when you look at a church

and you see like church font, what do you think it actually is font-wise? Um... And then if you could change it, what would it be? Okay, I mean, I think it would be really fun to play around with like a little curls empty just to fuck with everybody. But, you know. Like just the amen at the end, you know? Yeah, just like a little silly, you know?

Just a little silly, but I would say like maybe. Uh-oh. What? I, I, sorry, scared. Thank God you can't hear my computer. I accidentally clicked something called best church fonts 2021 and a YouTube video started playing and he just screamed in this video. I'm going to be showing you and it scared me out of my absolute video about

every goddamn thing. It's outrageous and it auto plays so loud. Anyway, I would say like, what about like an impact? I don't know or like a, I don't know. I mean, at times New Roman seems like two on the nose, but what about like a copper, what's it called? Copper plate? Oh copper plate, copper plate.

Copper plate, thathead copper plate. That's a good one. We're engraving or whatever it's called. Yeah, I feel like copper plate is a really good one. And that just to fuck with everyone a wing dings wouldn't hurt anyone. Now that would be some Dan Brown shit right there. Some some fucking that's my book report.

I'm going to write a book report on what's that book that he wrote? The Da Vinci Code. Yes, thank you. That's some Da Vinci Code shit. Everything's in winged in some love in it. I think so. I mean, that might be like, I guess, hieroglyphics.

We could that if we're doing a very. Neighboring conversation, we could be like, what would this be? Right, like symbols, symbols. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess symbols are actually something that people are desperately trying to decode. But for the, for the Christian church, just for fun, let's throw a wing ding onto like one of the walls and see what happens, you know?

I think it would be hilarious, personally speaking. Great. Well, apparently if you don't do a little piggy-dipping in the piggy pond, you could become a Louberoo. Or Mock Priest don't do a little piggy-dipping in the piggy pond, you could become a Louberoo. Or Mock Priest don't have all this stuff. Oh no. So over time, the Louberoo became, as I said, a cautionary tale about abandoning the church and thus the lifestyle of the Europeans who were moving in. And that very quickly also morphed into if you don't follow, not just the lives of the,

if you don't just follow the church, but if you don't follow our way of things and you are yikes, a wild savage, yikes. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool. So it very quickly became like this, this cautionary tale of like how to be versus being some like wild person just like causing chaos and not going to heaven. And like why would you ever want to be that way? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. And of course this is as the friend just colonizing the land.

Yay. So it's all terrible. The Lugeru was also seen as a werewolf for the most part, but sometimes was seen as a horse. And sometimes was seen as just a very big dog with bread fur. I do know one of those. His name is Clifford. And then I'm just saying, maybe he's just a big dirty center. Well, we knew that already. Or are you kidding me?

Just stampeding through a town. Yeah. He thinks that motherfucker ever tied to sent in his life? I want everyone. Here's your homework for the day, by the way, Christine. Forget your book. I need you. Oh, I need you to go watch with Leona an episode of Clifford,

the big red dog and imagine that he's actually a cursed Christian who didn't tie and just just have that mindset going into the show. And then watch the storyline be completely different for you. Okay, I swear to God this is when I was little, I still have this, I had the flu and I was home sick and I, my stepmom, I was at my dad's house and so my stepmom like wheeled an old-ass TV from like 1985 into my bedroom and like brought me soup and I watched all that they had was for some reason because we had satellite or something. And so this TV only had PBS.

And so I remember I was like 13 and just watching like back to back episodes of Clifford with a high fever. And I wrote in my journal, like this show, there's something wrong with this show. Like I like took it and somehow internalized it. And I was like, this mutant dog, nobody thinks it's weird that this giant dog, like I went, I needed a hobby in that moment,

besides journaling and watching PBS Kids. But anyway, so I do have quite a story passed with that show already. It does make sense why he's so desperate to do a good deed all of a sudden at the end of every episode. Maybe it's because he knows that he needs to repent for his filthy ways.

It makes sense why he's always putting socks and shoes on and pants and underwear and he's trying to get back to his humanity, you know. Again, if we're just going to use me as the only source, whether or not it's credible, we could just say that like maybe he was a big fat homosexual.

And they said, oh, yikes, you're a dog. Probably you're a wild animal. And you're going to actually start on your own show, though. But but, you know, it's going to take a while for things to turn around. We don't know why you got so giant, though, I guess. It's so everyone could stare at you because you're a sore on the community. I think that was where we went. You're punishing.

Wow, we should go back into TV writing. I don't think so. I can confidently say I don't think that'll go very well. You know, like there's like the Riverdale version of like, we should do the Riverdale version of Clifford, the big red dog. Oh Christ. Yeah, that's what the world needs, I'm sure. Okay. Well, you let me know.

You get back to me when the answer is affirm yes. I'll think about it. Well, so apparently you could be a werewolf, a big horse, you could be Clifford, and you are also known to have big black eyes that glow red like burning coals. You can stand up on your hind legs and walk around. Now imagine if Clifford did that. That's Godzilla. That's if Clifford did that. That is Godzilla.

Oh, for God's sake. That's called Godzilla literally, yes. And that has God in the name. So if I can explain that to me is what I have to say. Christine, we have to go back into TV writing. You simply must. You're right. It's a solid yes for me.

You've changed my mind. So during the day, a Louugeru walks around as a human. OK, so we were wrong about everything we just said. Great. During the day, the Lugeru can walk around as a human amongst its neighbors who are totally unaware that apparently you shift into one of these creatures later.

At night, this is when you become this big violent beast who will kill even your own friends. But again, very symbolic. If you leave the church, then you can abandon everyone you've ever known and loved because you're a wild animal. Right. And nothing. Yeah, you have no morals. No moral compass. However, unlike other werewolves, Lugerus can be cured. Can you guess what the cure is? A little dip in the baptismal font, perhaps?

Uh-huh. Yeah, it's symbolically finding God, because the literal cure to a Lugeru is spilling a few drops of their blood, very Catholic sacrifice-y. Sure. But you cannot kill the Lugeru because then you're also killing the Christian within them. Yikes. Whoa, that's deep. Yikes. As a 12 year old, I would have been like, whoa, that's crazy. That's so metal.

So the challenge is to get close enough to a Luguru to draw its blood without getting hurt yourself while also not killing it. And if you do that, you can then save the Lou Grew. Right. Right. And we're just getting into like colonizing and like converting people. Oh, it's almost as if you picked up on that real quick cloud. Just tell me I did a good job so I can like internally cry. I'll text Leona. She'll do it for me. Yeah, thank you That way it feels more precious instead of you know condescending hurtful. Yeah, so in some versions

It's even best to dip your weapon in holy water before Before you know hurting them to ensure that the curing of the Lou Guru actually happens sure that the curing of the Lou Grew actually happens. Sure thing. And I can imagine at this time, and maybe even to some people in this time, it's a very slippery slope where now if you see a person acting without a moral compass, you could think they're on their way to becoming a Lou Grew, and all they need is Jesus to save them. You just need to be saved.

Yeah, it's a very scary concept. So this folklore ended up changing up again as it got passed down to other areas that the French moved to. And so that was when they were in Canada. And now the French that are moving into like the deep south of the US or islands like Haiti, they're bringing their stories with them and it's morphing even more. So this is where the Lou Gourou gets mixed in with Voodoo traditions, because now they're heading towards Louisiana. And by the 1700s, the Lugeru was becoming more

synonymous with Cajun culture and its name because the L in that dialect kind of sounds more like an R, the Lugeru became the Rugeru. Okay, how interesting. So in Louisiana specifically, the Rugeru threw out the stories morphed into a creature that made more sense with the area. And so it became more of a werewolf that lives amongst the wetlands. Okay. And so it appears at night,

many people say that unlike normal werewolves, the Rugeru is actually conscious the entire time of who they are and what they're doing and can morph at will. So it's more of a shape shifter than just a determined by the time of day. Sounds a little skinwalker-ish. It does, yeah. And over time, this lore also mixed with other lores that were traveling through the area,

like witch owls and other shapeshifters, and soon the Rougarou became this being that can morph not just into a wolf, but any swamp animal. And so that's how it became like the swamp werewolf, where it's technically a werewolf, but it can be an alligator for all you know. So. Ooh, okay. well if it can be an alligator for all you know. So one story actually that got passed through is that someone was driving by a swamp at night and hit a cow and when they went to check on the cow a human was limping away. Which like yikes, imagine if it was just a

human the whole time and they just- You're like, I hit that cow. Excuse me? A big fat cow. You just broke my fucking leg, you asshole. And now you're calling me a cow from your- Now you call me a cow, like right. I mean, it's like cherry on top. Thank you.

And since you think I'm a mystical creature, not even going to offer me a ride to the hospital, thank you. So Rugerus are able to be cured in the same way as Lugerus, but there is a price for the hero. So this feels even more like, oh, you have to be the savior. You have to sacrifice something for another. But if you're to draw the blood from a ruguru, you yourself become a ruguru for 101 days. Oh.

Which like, why would anyone save anyone then? I wouldn't- Then what's the point of that? If I found out you were a Rugeroo and I could save you as long as I took your place for 101 days, I'd be like, Christine, I'll see you in 100 days. That sounds bad. You forget it. That sounds bad, but I text me when you're done. And then I don't want to be tasked with you having to- now I have to fucking stab you?

You already stabbed me. Why are we doing this said me well so here's the other thing though here's the other thing if you become one and you tell nobody you just live with the burden then the curse will be lifted for everybody but if you tell someone's so like if I come to you and I bitch about it I'm like oh day 53 of being a ruger I I wanna just end this, this is terrible. Your curse is not only lifted, or not only not lifted, you stay one forever and the person you told becomes one. You know how fast I would just stab you with a fork.

Like if you said that to me, I would stab myself. You ruined it. I literally, it's like, and also so counterintuitive because of the point of becoming one was to save somebody from the misery But now you're actually causing someone the misery so many fucking What do you call it like traps?

It feels like you know like like a mental abuse of like don't complain about your burdens Yeah, I'll try to alleviate others and take on their burdens and then don't tell others about the... and it just feels like... and then suffer in silence. Yeah, yeah. I don't like this. I don't like it one bit. Other ways to become a rougarou in Louisiana folklore is to violate Catholic customs much like the lougarou curse and some people have said that they remember even being warned growing up that if they broke the rules during Lent they'd become a Rugeru. And if a Rugeru is chasing you, this is where I think maybe, like how you mentioned earlier in New Orleans, there's like the combined werewolf vampire tour we went on. So I think their stories kind of bleed into each other because once it lands in Louisiana,

this other additive comes through where if a Rugeru is chasing you, you can throw 13 objects on the ground and like a vampire, they will have to stop and count the items. But since they can only count to 12, if you throw 13 on the ground, they will spend all night like on a loop trying to count and then you save yourself from the attack. What the fuck? That's apparently a thing with a lot of vampire stories where they can only count to 12, so if you leave 13 somewhere then they stay in this like paradox of trying to count. That is just so odd. And it bleeds into Rugeru lore as well.

So I just like I wonder, I, 13 is such a symbolic number. Do you think they just said, oh, they can't count to 13? Yeah, it makes just about as much sense to me as everything else. Oh, let me just make up a rule. I don't know. But I guess so. I'm like, well, they like the full dozen, but a bigger dozen. Something about 13.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So the creature is still a part of multiple cultures in Canada, Louisiana, islands like Haiti. And its name has even become a nickname for people who stay up late causing trouble, which is me. I'm a little rude.

Yeah, sure is. And nowadays, the Rugeru, which is officially like a wetlands creature is like known to be like a cryptid of the wetlands. It's also, at least in Louisiana, is a mascot for wetland preservation. And they have the Rugeru Festival, which this year, by the way, is in October. And it raises funds for Louisiana's disappearing swamps. And it turned him into an environmental champion. All right I love that and I looked up the festival for anybody who's nearby or going to be in New Orleans and or I don't think it's in New Orleans It's a town. I don't know. It's in Louisiana. I don't think it's new New Orleans. So but

If you're interested in going this year the the festival will have a parade, hot air balloon rides, a howling contest, pumpkin lighting, and an outdoor viewing of Ghostbusters. And other... And our dance card is getting so full this year. And like the number of festivals that we have, like the horse radish fest, like we have signed up in mentally at least for so many fucking festivals we got to get this on the calendar stat. Every day there's a new thing to celebrate and sometimes you didn't even know it existed. Others still believe that the Rugeru is very real there are still many sightings

of the Rugeru throughout the swamps at night and plenty of them are said to still be out there. So, you know, look out if you see a werewolf or really any animal, apparently, any wetlands, you can now blame it on maybe running into a ruguru. OK, OK, how do you spell ruguru? Like if we want to look at our OU, GA ROU. I love that. Oh, God, it's oh, no, it's so scary. Yeah, most of the pictures still like make it look definitely like a werewolf.

But in Louisiana specifically is where it could morph into anything. It seems these are creepy. He's not as cute as I hoped. I would like them to morph into something cuter. They're apparently able to. So. All right. I would hope so.

If I were a shape shifter, I feel like I would use it for to look cuter all the time. And then I take back all the time because when I'm walking on the street alone at night I would want to look like the nastiest creepy is the scariest fucking thing in the world. I mean I'll send you a picture. This is how I picture you is it just a picture of my fucking face Christine what no Well, yeah, it is a picture of your fucking fate. It's actually a picture of your Whole body I Don't even know what's going on. I resent it though, whatever you're about to do. Nothing.

Oh my God. Yeah. Well, that's how I would want to look at night when I'm walking back from the club. Good news. Shut up. Don't change a thing. See, that's what Clifford was trying to go for and he only like mid-wars. I mean, apparently I was traumatized. I seem to have been traumatized. thing. See, that's what Clifford was trying to go for. And he only like mid-mortem.

I mean, apparently I was traumatized. I seem to have been traumatized by Clifford's appearance as a 12 year old with a fever. So apparently it works. Also here's my question about Clifford, because I've always wanted to know, or really any very large creature, when they're talking, like they can't keep a secret. They certainly can't whisper one because the whole town's going to hear it. Like if you're talking, like they can't keep a secret. They certainly can't whisper one because the whole town's gonna hear it. Like if you're talking at a normal conversational level, and they're talking to you,

if you're looking up at Clifford or the Incredible Hulk or whoever it is, obviously I've thought about this with the Incredible Hulk. Like if they're talking to you in a normal conversational voice, do they have to actively whisper so it sounds conversational to us or is their conversational? Because their vocal cords are so much bigger?

I guess so or like because their voice is so booming and like physically like they're all the way up there. It's like, I feel like their voice is just bellowing throughout the town when they're not even trying to be proud. Well no, because isn't there a whole thing where Clifford can only speak to Emily Elizabeth? Like he can't speak to other people. He can speak to his other puppy friends. Dogs, yeah, so they're probably barking.

Can you imagine Clifford being your neighborhood dog and that bark every morning? Bark! I would sue. I would sue immediately. Clifford being your neighborhood dog and that bark every morning? I would sue. I would sue immediately. Oh, my God. I'm in the H.O.A. Big red dog fucking the H.O.A. OK, here we go. Clifford, the big red dog spoilers.

OK, I can't. I can't. I need to get off reddit. This is not good. What's the spoiler that he's a dog? I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to spoil it for everyone. But I but I do wonder, I'm like, is his bark a normal level for our ears?

Or do you have to like cover your ears when like he when he's talking to you? I don't know. This is like the wildest shit. I've stopped listening to our podcast because this person thinks that there's a fan. This person's fan theory is that Clifford is actually some symbolic of anti-depressants. Well, what are the poo is, right? They're like all different mental health issues. They are not being ironic or kidding, because people definitely asked in the comments

and they were like, no. Oh, OK. So spoiler alert. It's not only about your own fan theory, right? Like you can't be like, is the spoiler he represents? I'm like, it's not a spoiler. I knew about the Winnie the Pooh one. That one makes sense to me that they're all like a different mental health thing. Yeah. But then I heard the seven, like Snow White and the Seven

Doors one and apparently all seven of them are like different side effects of like cocaine or something. Like there was some wild one that I would hear. Some 90s bullshit. Well, I feel like because I mean that story was written like hundreds of years ago. So I'm like, I don't think that they were writing it like. I don't think they were here, but I definitely believe it.

It's interesting or something or or I don't know. It was definitely like dare propaganda. It was like, sure is. You will be easy. You will be so drowsy. Wait, what? Yeah. So it's a grim brother's grim story. And I mean, maybe they were on cocaine, but I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, they were drinking like normal tea, which had cocaine back then. So I don't even think they were aware of how much cocaine was in their body at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's the Ruger room.

Good job. Thank you. Get it. Okay. Uh, let's see. I guess I should find my notes Can I let Gio out real quick? He's complaining While Christine isn't here. She texted me earlier and she said if you died I would write the bitchiest eulogy And I was like, it was only half prompted. It was prompted because you said, if I die today, you will only have these screenshots

and I will look like a basket case. And I'm like, yeah, and I will put them in a slideshow and play it at your funeral and be like, one time M told me I had a dull ass personality on the day of my most intimidating job interview. Yeah, M is a basket case. RIP. I feel like if you're going to put all of the things that I ever sent you and like a, you know, like at like a funeral when it's like someone would pick music and there's like a slideshow.

I sure do because I've already built it in my mind. Yep. As long as you put like fun little like emojis that make it like silly goofy, like you put like the little hearts, the like the two little pink hearts that are swirling together or like the the the three little stars just to make it sound like it was meant to be like a little fun. You put that in the text about the eulogy and you seem to know if you repeat it, if you bring that energy, I'm down for sure.

OK, all right, cool. There was no emoji in that message you sent me, weirdly, on Snapchat, so that's hot, but. Well, I guess I can't- I guess it can be the- I can't differ to who I was five years ago. That was, I don't know what to tell you. Why are you saving things from five years ago?

I don't know. I literally have no idea. I was going back for B-Shoe Sandy. I needed to find a photo of me from like 2000, whatever, 17, 18. And I'm like, what is this weird screenshot? I save everything. You know that. I, I, I save everything.

How many pictures do you have in your phone right now? Like if you looked at all pictures. Do you want to know for real? Yeah. Cause I also have a lot. Actually one of my like personal goals is to like clear out my photos. There's an absolute... Right now I have... Oh, Haun, I want to...

I want to guess how many for you. Okay. How many do you have? I think you have 80,000. How many do you have? You guess for me. 80,000. How many do you have? You guess for me. 50,000. I have 56. I have 56.

Wait, what's your number number? Like, what's the official one? 56,530. I've literally only 100 more than you. What? I have 56,655. That is really weird. That's wild.

I'm going to take 125 photos right now. Gio. Then we'll have an even number. That's really weird. Interesting. That's a fun fact. Okay, that's a freaky coincidence. Which is, I think it's because all of my travels, I think I take a lot of pictures on my travels

and you take a lot of pictures during your mental travels when you decide to just like reread screenshots from. My mental travels. Yeah, yours would be all like the poop cafe and your fun adventures of mine is just like me screenshotting your texts about the poop cafe. Like that's how our relationship is so meta. I don't know, man. That's a wild thought.

Wow. Anyway, okay. I'm ready for you to regale me. I wasn't earlier. I think I needed to get in the zone and I'm very in the zone now. I literally took 16 photos today. Like what was I taking photos of? I literally just took a photo in my therapy office.

I never take one, I never take one photo. I always take at least three or four. And then I forget to delete the first three that sucked more than the last one. Right. I never delete. I like sometimes heart one and then leave the rest. So I my goal, it took literally so long. There was a day it was last weekend or whatever I was last home. And I tried to go through pictures and like delete.

I was just trying to get through like 2019 and it took like eight hours to go through every picture. There's an app that TikTok keeps telling me about that like we'll group together like similar photos so you can like select one and it'll delete the rest. So I would look into that because I used it once and it was actually incredibly helpful.

Okay, good to know. Because it makes it less overwhelming because it bunches them together. Well, my stupid thing is I have the thing on my phone where I, to screenshot, I don't have to press the two buttons on either side, I just tap the back of my phone. So anytime that I tap, anytime my phone hits the table or something, it takes a screenshot. So I think like 10,000 of these are just screenshots of unnecessary things. Yeah, that I feel like I had that on for two days

and I was like, I'm going to lose my mind. I cannot, I can't deal with this anymore. Especially with your tapping problem. But exactly, thank you, you get it. It's not gonna end well. Okay, I have a story to you, but hold on, let me start over. This is my book report. Am I failing?

Yes. Uh, I have a book report today. This is the story. This is an Australian story. This is the story of Malcolm Nadon. Okay. So it's early 2000s, January 4th, 2005. 24 year old Letitia Nolan stopped by her grandparents' house

with her four young children. She told her grandparents she'd only be out for a little while, she just had a short errand to run. And she left the four kids at their great grandparents' house and stepped out into the dark, got in her car and drove away. At the time, her aunt, Margaret Walker, lived next door. And Margaret noticed it was getting dark, it was getting late, and Leticia had said,

oh, I'm just doing a quick errand. And it had been far too long. And so they started to get nervous and knew something must be wrong because Leticia was a doting mother and would not have just run off and leave her four kids behind with no news or a phone call or something. So the minutes ticked by and Letitia's family got more and more worried and tragically their worries were not misplaced because Letitia never came home.

Letitia's car was discovered on the banks of a nearby river abandoned and a search of the area found no evidence of her whatsoever. So they weren't sure whether she had drowned in the river or perhaps left on foot or was taken to a second location by an abductor. It was just unclear what had happened. There were a handful of reports covering her disappearance, but Letitia was an Indigenous Australian woman and it has been apparently difficult for Sersha or I to find many stories covering her disappearance in the news. It's an odd thing. I mean, I think we see this a lot, but it's a situation where the murderer ends up becoming much more famous or infamous

in this case than the victims. Like the victims sort of get lost in the shuffle, you know what I mean? Like in the story about the guy himself. And so it's just worth noting that it wasn't much reported when it first happened. So as we know, this is often what happens, especially when women are indigenous or, you know,

and we've covered the Canadians, Canadians, the Canadian plight, Jesus Christ, the Canadian plight, the Canadian plate. Jesus Christ, the Canadian plate, the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. And, you know, seems like this is just same old, same old all over the world. Not not very shocking. So Leticia left behind a devoted and devastated family for young kids, all reeling for answers that seemed like they might never come. And the only lead they had was this car at the river.

There were no suspects, no path to follow. I mean, they didn't even know what the errand run, that she was running was. So they really had no avenues to take. It seemed pretty much hopeless until six months passed. Six months later, another woman disappeared from the same house. Oh, okay.

So 24 year old. Is she on the exact same house? Uh-huh. Hmm, okay. Hmm. 24 year old Kristie Scholes was part of Letitia's family and she was described in the media as the de facto wife of one of LaTisha's cousins and in Australia a de facto marriage refers to a long-term domestic partnership

where the couple maybe not legally married, but they're still entitled to certain legal rights that legally married couples have you know similar ideas to what we have here, but it's called a de facto marriage. Cool. So in June 2005, Christy, again, she's 24, she was staying in the house for the weekend with her two young children while the rest of the family was out of town. And just like Letitia, Christy was a doting mother, a beloved friend. Letitia's grandparents were out of town and Christy was staying at the house, but she felt very uneasy and she knew like this is the last place Letitia was seen and there was just something that was making her uncomfortable.

So she actually called it feeling early on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like she just, and, you know, it probably had something to do with the fact that her cousins or her, I'm sorry, her partners, her husband's cousin, Letitia, had vanished from that house six months earlier, you know, but for whatever reason, she felt uneasy. She called a family member around 9 30 pm and expressed

that she was feeling a bit nervous staying there, and that was the last time she would ever be heard from. So the next day, one of the neighbors noticed Christie's four-year-old daughter climbing into the house through a bedroom window. Apparently, the four-year-old had cut the screen to get out of the room and look for her mother because she couldn't find her. That's so sad. It's horrible. So, the neighbor knocked on the door. There's no answer.

So, worried, he enters the home, I'm presuming with a spare key, and finds no sign of Christie. Her children had been stuck in a bedroom that was locked from the outside. So that is why they had to climb out of the screen because they had been locked in this bedroom. It's just really scary and sad. So they had cut their way out. This also not meant to be a compliment, but it's at the, I don't think I knew

that like a four year old even had the wherewithal to think like, oh, there's a screen if I cut it like it just it gives a sense of like Almost figuring things out at a desperation like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a great point I mean, I can't say what a four-year-old can do mines too And I like I'm not trying to say like oh wow how smart of her which like it was it was smart of the four-year-old But I'm not trying to make it into like a good thing. It's just like wow it didn't even I don't even know if I'm a four-year-old that would have crossed my mind to yeah, so desperate to find my mom that To cut you climb out the window

I mean, it's just really sad too because you think like if that was the oldest child like the older sibling that she had to like You know make the decision and climb like the older sibling that she had to like, you know, make the decision and climb out the window on behalf of her sibling. It's just scary, like no four year old wants to do that. Like take charge, you're four, like it's just always terrible to me when little kids have to grow up so fast in situations like this. So yeah, a tiny four year old little girl, it's horrible. So she had been locked in with

her sibling in this bedroom. And so of course he lets them out, but doesn't see Christie anywhere, their mother, and they say we went out to look for her couldn't find her came back through the window. So the neighbor began making some calls and said like hey this these two children's mother is not here and They're really small and they're looking for her and Where could you be so family arrived soon and started a search and when the whole day Basically passed with no word from her they notify the police and the police sent officers and a detective to the house and they searched the house for any clues pointing to where Christie could be. And they discovered that the guest bedroom door was locked from the inside. Is that the one where the kids were or that's a different room?

A different room. A different room. That one had been locked as well but was now... That one had been locked from the outside but was now, that one had been locked from the outside so that the kids couldn't get out. This room was locked from the inside. Oh, oh, oh, I see, okay. So, turns out Letitia's cousin, 31 year old Malcolm Nadon, was living in that room temporarily.

And they kind of just, the family just kind of assumed like, oh, well, since the door was locked, we just assumed he was living in there and wanted his privacy, you know, for whatever reason. And so they thought, oh, well, Curse must have left the house. Well, unfortunately, once they forced access into the bedroom, there was no Malcolm Nadon to be found,

but there was a pile of clothing and bedding on the floor and underneath this pile of clothing was the body of Christie. Ooh, well, I kind of saw that coming, but yikes. Yeah, yeah. So Christie had passed away seemingly some hours before and pretty quickly authorities suspected that she had been murdered for obvious reasons and the house immediately became a crime scene, which must have been just imagine like, I

mean, it's horrible to just think like her family was in there all day looking for her outside the house and she was inside the house. Or even the hindsight of the four year olds, like so desperate to find their mom, they were like willing to climb onto a roof and yeah and all this stuff just to know that she was in the other room one bedroom away. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. So according to Malcolm's later confession, Christie had been brushing her teeth in the bathroom. I mean this is like out of a fucking horror movie when he just came up right behind her,

grabbed her and strangled her to death. That is right out of a horror movie. Like you close the medicine cabinet. I was gonna say, you're looking in the mirror. Oh, you spit and look up. Oh my God. I mean, it's like, I feel like every 90s horror movie, but like worse because it's reality.

So apparently the way he described it was he took her so by surprise that there wasn't much of a struggle and he overtook her. He overpowered her pretty quickly. And he strangled her to death. Then he brought her body into his room, raped her and left her body there under a pile of clothes. He then locked the door to the bedroom and climbed out of a window. Sorry, he raped her after she was already dead?

Yes. I mean, that's better. I just... No. I also... Okay. I also I Guess I'll I'll say what he commented about it. It's

Discuss it's sick, but he said After he explained what he had done he said because he figured he would have one for the road. Oh My god. Wow. Okay. Jesus. Throughout this, there's this complete and utter callousness that even he describes later, where he says in his fucking philosophical musings from prison or whatever, where he just is like, you know, I should really do some deep diving into my own psyche and figure out like what's wrong with me. Oh, yeah. And you know, he probably thought that was the most intellectual thing he could ever

whip out to. Right, right, so deep. He's probably like, I don't even have to do any more work because me thinking that was as deep as it goes. I think I solved it. Yeah, fucking an asshole. He probably got himself the most empathetic person in the prison. He even says like, he actually says the opposite.

He actually says that he doesn't understand why he doesn't feel anything after he kills somebody. So he clearly has admitted at least self diagnosed with a psychopathy or sociopathy. Some sort of pathology. He's got something going on there. I'm sort of pathology. He's got something going on there. Has he has said he just feels nothing? Just a lack of empathy there. So very, very disturbing.

So anyway, that is how he had later described it. But at the time, you know, they just find her body and assume he she has been killed. The room had been locked from the inside so nobody could walk in on them. And the window was open, meaning he had most likely locked the children into their bedroom and then locked himself in with Christie and then escaped out the window. So that's kind of what they've pieced together at this point. So this is when authorities receive startling information, which is that, hmm, how weird,

another young woman has disappeared from this exact same property six months ago. At the time, they didn't know, at the time of Letitia's disappearance, they didn't know that a man named Malcolm Nadon had been living there. So he was never even questioned in relation to her disappearance. Right, okay. Much less investigated. Right. And so now a woman is dead, not just missing. And in Malcolm's room and he's gone.

So they're like, oh God, okay. So we're nailing a very obvious pattern here all of a sudden. And pretty immediately Malcolm Nadine became the key person of interest in both Christie's murder and Letitia's disappearance. Again, from under the same fucking roof. Like, ugh. So the more people who spoke to investigators about Malcolm Nadon, the more disturbing the details became.

Because even though his family described him as like a very good kid to have had around and described him as always helping with the dishes and, you know, like, just being very polite. People who knew him closely also tended to describe him as a creep. So a little bit of a red flag there. Creep, I think, is not strong enough of a word because there were already existing pending allegations against him for aggravated indecent assault against a minor. And what had happened was back in 2004, which was only months before Letitia's disappearance, he had been staying with a family and in the middle of the night entered the 12-year-old daughter's room and molested her while she slept.

And so those charges were pending at the time that authorities kind of pieced together that he's also involved with Letitia and Christie. So once the allegations came out about this sexual assault of this minor, he began spending all his time in his room at his grandparents' house, avoiding everyone. Like he basically became a shut-in because people were kind of siding him like, you did what? To a small child? Yeah, for sure. a small child. Yeah. So women in his family, including Leticia, had received alarming letters

from him. And I mean, this is, these are people in his own family, and they're receiving letters soliciting sex off, like writing like lustful comments to girls and women in his family. full comments to girls and women in his family. Just like really bizarre and disturbing. Again, I think Creech probably is an understatement. I don't know if... I don't even know if it's like... it's probably not worth it. I was gonna say, do you know like of any examples of like what exactly he was saying to them? You know, I don't know off the top of my head. It's maybe not our business anyway of putting someone, like putting the spotlight directly on someone

compared to everyone else. But it's like how, I do believe them. I just want to know like how intense and red flaggy was this stuff, was it like super duper? He was pretty blatantly asking for sex from Wow, okay. Female relatives, including minors. So yeah, it's definitely pretty egregious, I think.

I will say that there was, so I listened to an episode of True Crime Island, it's a podcast and they covered this and they mentioned an Australian broadcast show. It reminds me of like a 2020 or a 60 minutes or something where they released these promos that they had gained access to like hundreds of pages. I think hundreds, maybe dozens of pages of Malcolm Nadine's confessions, like he wrote them all out and they were going to reveal them on the show and the families of the victims

begged this TV station to not release all this and they did it anyway. So yeah, so the host that I listened to made a great point, you know, of like, not directly quoting that because they had expressly asked them not to share those details with the public. So apparently those that context does exist somewhere, maybe on like one of these torrent sites where you can download like shows from 20 years ago in other countries. But yeah, I don't have the specific. OK, cool. Quotes. And it would also be like from his own perspective.

So who knows if he's even right. I think that it's always a grain of salt anyway, like whether he's telling the truth or not. So yeah, basically when they talk to the family, the family is like, yeah, he's a huge creep. And like once he got busted sexually assaulting a child, we all were kind of horrified and that's when he started shutting himself in and writing us creepy letters and basically not being the normal quote unquote kid that he was back in the day. And so Leticia herself had

even received some of these letters before she vanished. And Christie had received a similar letter. And so it's starting to kind of add up that I mean, no wonder she was uncomfortable staying there with this guy in the next room, writing her these letters like, geez. Of course, she had a weird feeling. Right. Yeah. It's a pretty obvious feeling. No doubt. Right? Yeah. It's a pretty obvious feeling. No doubt.

Why? So if that weren't enough, detectives also discovered some holes in the ceiling throughout the house. And Malcolm would go up there, like out of another fucking horror movie, and watch his female family members and their friends dress and undress, shower, sleep, do whatever, the privacy of their own rooms. I mean, it's obviously possible. But in my mind, I'm like, how on earth do you not hear someone crawling all the way

up there and like how small is this hole that no one else is noticing it, but he's able to see the whole room, you know? Which like, it doesn't matter. I bet you, I mean, think about it, like you need like this much, you know, like you put your eye up to a teeny tiny little thing. Yeah. You probably see a lot. Yeah, I guess so.

And I don't know if maybe his bedroom was upstairs, like maybe his bedroom was above a bathroom. I don't know. I have no idea. But apparently he had been spying on them for a long time. Wow. Really gross, really gross. He had actually told them in some of the letters. So I guess this does kind of answer your question about like how egregious or how blatant it was. He had told some of them in the letters that he had been watching them in their house, in their bedrooms.

And I guess they were like, what? Like, that's a creepy thing to say. Not thinking like he's literally watching from the ceiling. Right. He just means like, I would think like, oh, he was like clocking me from the couch. Like when I was in the kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a threatening like, oh, I can watch. I'm watching you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if it was a literal, I am watching you through a hole in the ceiling. But you have holes in the bathroom. I bet he did. I think so. I think it was throughout the house, which also, like,

how did you even put those were the holes there? Did you do I feel like he probably took a hammer and nailed a hole through? I feel like he probably made the holes. Oh, sick. So, yeah, he watched them shower. Oh yeah. So you must have had a hole in the bathroom because you watched them shower. And I mean, how violating, you know.

So it was clear, obviously, to detectives that they were dealing with someone very dangerous, who had very likely killed before. Now, Letitia's vanishing seemed like it could have had a much worse ending than they initially hoped. The problem was he had vanished without a trace and became a fugitive. And he became such a fugitive, in fact, that he became famous for being a fugitive and was the target of the longest and most difficult manhunt in Australia's history. Wow.

Fun fact. What a title. And like in those letters, I mean the first thing I always personally think I clock is like the cockiness of like their, I don't know, like, like him thinking he can get away with saying, I've been watching you throughout the house. Like they're grand, like they're grandiosity, like, oh, I'm untouchable. Yeah. Yeah. And like, I feel like, yes, that's a fun fact that he's got that title. But I'm so grossed out that like now he gets to call himself that.

And it just like gives him whatever spotlight he wanted. Well, I'm so glad you noticed that because it actually gets worse as far as like being. Good, you know, I was having a bad day, I wanted it to be worse, and now it gets to be even more horrible, great. You're welcome. Yeah, it gets worse because let's just say

he ends up being almost celebrated by some people. Oh, yeah. Is he one of those guys where like the women think he's hot and like... he ends up being almost celebrated by some people. Yeah. Is he one of those guys where like the women think he's hot and like. I don't know if it's so much of that. It's more of like a folk hero type of worship, like. Ew, because he's on the run, you know. I know if this was like a Dahmer thing where it was like for a Ted Bundy thing where it's like, he's so hot.

He he could kill me or whatever they would fucking say. I don't know fucking gross. No, I think it's more just the fact that he was on the run and police couldn't catch him. And people thought that was a noble activity. I don't know. And like, ignored the rest of the story. But we'll get to it.

So Malcolm is now fugitive and detectives learned pretty quickly that Malcolm was not only a hunter and fisherman, but he had actually had experience living in the bush, aka Australian wilderness, which is worrisome because it is a hard task to find somebody who is well versed in living in the Australian wilderness. Yeah, they began to worry like maybe he will be able to live off the land and just go off into the vast wilderness and it would be like nearly impossible for them to mobilize a search. But two weeks went by, no luck catching up with Malcolm and police decided a new tactic which was to launch

a massive media campaign asking the public to help locate this fugitive. Unfortunately, Malcolm had, I guess, thought ahead and he had meticulously removed and destroyed every single photo of him in his family's house. So they didn't have a picture of like what he looked like in modern, like they maybe had a childhood photo or something or an old photo, but they did not have like a reliable quality picture to broadcast. Which in 04,05, it's not that long ago.

And not that he showed signs of, I mean, it's not like they could have blamed mental illness on this and he was like not competent enough to know what he was doing. Right, right, right. It's not like that was even a thought at this point, but this just double confirms that he knew everything that was going on. It was all very, very, very premeditated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To cut your, to destroy all the photos of yourself, knowing that like people will be looking for you. I mean, it's terrifying. Even though they didn't have a reliable photo of him, reports

still came in from around the entire country, most of them being dead ends. But six months after Christie's murder, police got a concerning report from the Taronga Western Plains Zoo. Zoo? What the fuck did he do there? Oh my God. Oh, is he hiding there? He sure is. In a cave? Not in a cave.

Here's how they found him, first of all. Okay. It began with the inexplicable scent of toast cooking at strange hours. Toast? Toast. So he has electricity or he's burning bread on a fire. It's one of the two. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Okay. Then food began going missing from animal enclosures. He's literally stealing, like, what, raw steaks from the lion? It's done? I don't know. He's stealing stealing like what raw steaks from the lion is done. I don't know. He's stealing. What could he be fighting off lions? Yeah. I'm like, is he stealing mealworms from an owl or is he stealing like steaks from a

lion? I don't know, but he's stealing food from the enclosures because food just starts mysteriously vanishing. And the staff who lived on site, because there were some, would wake up to their dogs barking at something at night, but they never saw anything. But they did start to hear some strange noises on the roof. Then a custodian who cleaned at the zoo went to the laundry facility and saw a man stealing clothes from the laundry. And I kind of see where this local legend thing ended up coming. Right. I see why he overshadows the actual victims in the story. He's like on the run in this like, yeah, exactly. That's kind of like a crazy.

Yeah, this is like a breaking news kind of story. Yes. Yes. It feels like very America's most wanted like fugitive on the run, you know, type of frenzy that people got themselves into. Sensational. Sensei very sensational. Yes. This custodian could tell that this man had not showered in weeks or even months. So she contacted police to tell them basically about all of these strange facts.

And police were like, well, we might just know who is up to this nonsense. Malcolm seems to be living as a fugitive in the zoo. So at the end of December, it is, and it's 2005. Like it's like there's cameras and shit, you know, but I guess he's just. Do we ever get to hear his like plan, like how he got into the zoo, how he like snuck in and like... Oh, sure. Cause I'm curious about...

There's like people who... It's like, it's like impossible to sneak into Disneyland. Like I want to know like what his, how he so seamlessly on Try One got into the zoo and stayed there and was unseen for weeks. So what we do know is that they managed to get his fingerprints inside the entrance to a ceiling inside the zoo. He loves climbing in those fucking ceilings.

He sure fucking does because he had been living in the ceilings watching the employees the way he had watched women back home. He just can't get enough. He's a fucking, I mean, creep, I guess is the word. He's a fucking creep. So they launched a tactical operation at the zoo to search the 700 acres of zoo grounds,

but Malcolm was already gone because I guess he caught wind that they were coming for him. And when they searched the zoo and this guy was gone, they placed a $50,000 bounty on him. And he disappeared virtually for 14 months, and they could not track this guy down until February 2007. Hundreds of miles away from the zoo, there was a break in. And when they collected DNA at the zoo, there was a break-in. And when they collected DNA at the site, they were able to conclude that it was Malcolm who had been breaking and entering. Even somehow he had made it hundreds of miles away without being detected or caught by police.

Amazing. I would love to see him do it today in 2024 with like security cameras everywhere. Yeah, yeah, I feel like even though it was quote unquote modern times, it was still 20 years ago, you know, so it's it's according to the law and order episodes from that era. There weren't a lot of cameras going on. I guess you're right. I said security cameras, but then I was like, I guess, oh five, oh, like, especially if you're in kind of a I mean this isn't like the airport or like the Right. Well also now. I mean now. I wouldn't even think about cameras for like tracking somebody would be your phone It would be like right like digital footprint like smart tech. Yeah. Yeah, yeah

Or even like think about he's breaking it all these places now with doorbell cameras and shit Yeah, it would not be like actual CCTV that I would rely on before anything else. It would be people's TikTok videos being like, who's this guy on my doorbell? Right? Yeah. Oh, wait, I would do I saw the creepiest TikTok the other day. This girl said that she was at home alone and her dog started barking and she got a really weird feeling and she saw this lady standing at the edge of her driveway. And she just felt very weird about it. And like, I guess locked the door

and went back to the ring footage. And there's nobody there. What? She's like, she like shows the footage. She's like, she circles it. She's like, she was standing here. And you can like, she circles it. She's like, she was standing here and you can like see, I'm pretty sure you can like see her go like, check out the door and close it.

And she's like, I saw this woman standing right there and on the footage, there's nobody there. Some people were like, maybe check for a gas leak. Oh, maybe it's a gas leak. Like carbon monoxide. I'm like, check carbon monoxide, but then that's creepy as shit Well, that's awful because it feels like that's like again out of a horror movie of like someone like Standing in front of your door to be like this is the beginning of you know, I can't get into your home yet

Is Tamara home? Yeah, as we get as you get more comfortable and settled here. I'll be able to get closer to the door. Yeah, yeah and the dog barked. Honestly, the way she framed it was definitely creepier. I just don't want to misrepresent the details of it, but it was definitely. I think the dog barking and freaking out lets you know everything you need to know that even the dog is uncomfortable.

This is not a good something. We already talked about how lycanthropes know theycanthropes know they have good instincts, you know, they know, they know who's a bad guy. That's exactly right. Imagine the next day that woman appears closer, but has no nose. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Oh my God. Oh my God, okay. Anyway, so they find his DNA hundreds of miles away at the site of a break-in and they're like, wow, anyway. So they find his DNA hundreds of miles away at the site of a break-in and they're like, wow, okay, so he's made moves these past 14 months. And of course, it's impressive that he has gotten so far on foot. They were starting to build a new profile

based on the zoo incident and the break-in and they were determining that he was not in fact the extremely skilled back country outdoorsman that they had thought Because he needed to steal food like and make toast and steal clothes to survive He wasn't like living off the land. He was basically, you know robbing people Yeah, you know what's weird though is well, I guess I don't know enough about what animals eat I was gonna think like bread. I was like that feels like he's in the break room like I feel like I don't know an animal what animals eat. But I was gonna think like bread. I was like, that feels like he's in the break room. Like I feel like I don't know what an animal is getting bread, maybe a duck.

Wait, what? What are you talking about? Like how he was like, how he's making toast and everything. I'm still stuck on like, how is he getting the ingredients? Cause I know like with like, I get that like with meat, he's going into an enclosure. But that's what they mean is like like he has to steal it from people. Like he has to steal food and clothes from people to survive. So he's not living off the land like they thought.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. I think I was thinking as you were talking and I mixed up your notes with my genius thought, my original thought that came into my head by itself. Your turn. Sorry. Oh, no. Your turn, sorry. Oh no, I mean, yes, he probably stole bread like from somebody's lunch or something. Like he wasn't getting it like from the wild. Like you, or the, oh, is that what you meant?

Like which animals at the zoo were getting bread? Yeah. Oh, I don't know. You're right, it's probably the break room. I mean, considering he was found in the laundry room, stealing clothes. Yeah, so he must. It's probably the break room. I mean, considering he was found in the laundry room stealing clothes. Yeah. So he must have had access to the break room. In which case, like, I feel like most of his food should have been coming from the break room. Like, there's nothing more ridiculous

to me than like the thought of him like fighting off a zebra or something like for... To get, to get like some grains or whatever the fuck Zebras eat grass like if he wanted the good food he would have to fight off a lion right or like a Seal yeah, and they have to know how to prep it or something like imagine being like given like a zebra leg And imagine happening in the enclosure next to the actual zebras, and they just like actually clock what's happening They're like wait a minute. Why can't we speak we have something to report? Oh Lord. Oh Lord. Oh Lord. Yeah, so basically all that to say police are determining like oh shit

this guy's not some outdoorsy guy that can survive so low in the wilderness like he needs to steal bread and right food and clothes, etc. So in other words, that meant he would have to resurface at some point. Somebody would notice that he was around somewhere stealing. And he sure was spotted again. He was spotted at the Misty Mountain Health Retreat. And this is, I feel like this whole story is just a bunch of horror

movies smashed together because there was this caretaker who lived there and she lived there in the off season alone in the 1200 acres of thick bushland. And she was the shiny. Got it. You were legit. Seriously, because she begins noticing strange things happening. Like the smell of toast cooking in the woods while she's out for a jog. First of all, this motherfucker can't just eat a piece of bread.

Like, why are you even toasting it? Yeah, that's a great point. Or like I caught multiple times for toasting bread. Like, truly the biggest exhibit A anyone has gotten so far is on smell. And every time it's toast, yes, he he's probably going through that era. You know how we all go through a phase like once a year where we're obsessed with like bread and butter. And then after that, all I do, I'll touch it for a year.

All I eat. Yeah. He's probably having his moment. But like, like also how much harder must it be to toast bread out in the wild unless he's frying the bread? Well, like it's such a specific smell. Like if you're gonna cook something outside, at least cook something that would smell like outside

or that some like barbecue or something that someone else nearby might be making or... The bread is so specific. Well, she was supposed to be completely alone on this 1200 acres. So if if it's also by the way his best bet might have been whilst like wait live in the house. He know he loves ceilings just live in the ceiling wait till she's gone and then use the fucking kitchen to toast the bread because at least it'll smell like kitchen and she'll think maybe she cooked

something earlier. Well, don't worry, because items began going missing from her pantry. Oh, got like the toaster. Just the food. Food starts disappearing from the back of the pantry. In my mind, it's still like the shining where he's like in like, I'm sure it really is just a cabin. In my brain though, when I hear 12,000 acres

I think a 12,000 acre building. I'm like, oh well, there's a lot of kitchens you could be fucking around and nope it's just her little shed and and her alone in the offseason so Yeah, but also so much scarier to be like I'm alone on this land I'm in the peaceful wilderness and then like things start disappearing from the pantry. I must be so unsettling. So she starts noticing these things. And finally, one day she's near

one of the facility's buildings and she spots Malcolm. And nope, again, nobody's supposed to be around. So she shouts at him, but he runs off into the bush. One night a few weeks later, she wakes up to the sound of someone trying to open the door to her cabin. Oh! Sick.

Then... That's so creepy. So creepy. Then a flashlight shines through her window and hits a mirror and lights up the whole room. It's one thing for him to think that maybe it was abandoned and he could stay there for a while, but he has interacted with her.

He knows someone's there. Oh, he knows she's in there. Yeah. And she knows he knows that, which means she knows he knows. He's interested in making her disappear. Something bad, something bad. Yeah. So now she's essentially a target.

And oh, it gets worse, oh my God. Okay, so for a moment she was too afraid to move. Then she starts shouting at him and he ran away. So she called her boss who called the police and they immediately were like, we think that's Malcolm, Nadine, the guy on the run. And they told her, you're in grave danger, get the fuck out of there.

So she moves in with a neighbor, I guess she had a neighbor somewhere probably 1200 acres away. 12,000 and one square feet away. Yeah, exactly. So she moves in with a neighbor and as she's collecting her things to move out of the cabin, she finds a note on her desk inside her bedroom. A note she's not seen before. She finds a note on her desk inside her bedroom. A note she's not seen before.

The note said only one thing. It said, nice moles. Moles. She had some moles on her body. And she was known to take a dip in the, take a little swim in the water outside after her dogs. That's what I'm talking about with this cockiness. Like he's like, oh, look what I can get away with. Yep.

So she knows now he's either been watching her undress in her room entirely possible because he's clearly been inside her bedroom before and seen her naked. So either she was swimming or either in the shower or who knows what. But she had moles on her body that you would only see if you saw her nude. And so she of course felt sick and violated. Finding a note like that in your bedroom.

Oh God. So the only consolation of course was that she was able to get out of there and survive the incident, but how traumatic is that detectives essentially outright told her, you probably would have been his next victim. Like he was definitely targeting you. Yeah, there's no doubt. So his DNA, of course, was once again found at the scene confirming it was him. And an extensive search of the entire grounds, 1200 acres turned up nothing.

And he escaped and was back on his fucking spree, his run. He apparently worked very hard to cover his tracks. He would sometimes, this is a weird, like little throwback to something you said earlier, remove doors from their hinges. Oh, that is weird. That is really weird. I forgot that was even part of the story when you mentioned it.

Then he would go into the home, steal food, clothes, guns, ammo, et cetera, and then replace the door and put it back on its hinges so that people wouldn't even notice that they had been robbed for a few days. What? Until they were like, wait, that's weird, the gun's gone. Or like these certain clothes of mine are missing.

And it was like enough to help him keep going, but not enough that it was so obvious. Like, you know, he would just steal like some, some pants and a gun, you know, and people wouldn't necessarily notice right away. So he'd have oftentimes a several days head start. But the fact that he would take the door off the hinges to rob you so that you didn't notice that he picked the lock. The irony because he's so unhinged.

So deeply unhinged. He should put one of those hinges on. Can we fix the thing or two? Yeah. So in November, 2011, two such break-ins occurred with the doors being removed from their hinges. Like new fear unlocked, I guess. I didn't know that was even a way of robbing somebody, but here we are. And authorities around the country were on high alert, like for these kind of break-ins specifically. And so when two happened in November of 11, police believe Malcolm was somewhere nearby so they launched a tactical

team into the thick bush and began searching for him in this terrain which is very wild uh very basically they were how do you put it uh it was an uphill battle for them in that he would know well in advance that they were coming because there was no way to search the bush quietly. So he would have a head start knowing where they were. You know what I mean? Like they, he had an advantage, I guess I'll say. So they knew he would hear them coming and had the advantage and most likely see them

before they saw him. The plants were so thick in this part of the bush that he could have been 10 feet away and they wouldn't have even seen him. So they had to be very, very thorough. They began finding signs of Malcolm all over the place, like food wrappers, discarded supplies. Then they found a stash of weapons.

They found two 22 rifles and a shotgun and that confirmed their fear that he was also actively armed, you know, and a dangerous person, obviously, to approach. So as they came into a clearing, suddenly a gunshot rang out, and one of the officers was hit in the shoulder. Oh, God. Okay. The other officers laid down around his body to protect him while they radioed for help and shouted to Malcolm, you know, this is police, stop shooting.

And the bush was too thick to identify where the shot had even come from. So as they tried to stop the downed officers bleeding, they also had this double fear that he's going to start firing. Right. Right. You know, like now they're in this precarious position. But fortunately, he disengaged from the whole thing and took the opportunity to escape

while their backup arrived and the injured officer was airlifted to a hospital. And thankfully, the bullet missed his vital organs by millimeters and he recovered from the- It's always by millimeters. It's never by like a big fucking chunk. I was just thinking that. I was just thinking that, millimeters. It's never by like a big fucking chunk. I was just thinking that. I was just thinking that, millimeters.

It's never by like a foot. It's like, oh, you weren't even close to dying. You're totally chill. It's always you are on the brink of death. A millimeter away. This tiny little sliver. Yeah, it seems to be that way for some reason. So the media became obsessed with this story

because the police were so close, right? Like they were in a clearing with him and he got away. And so news outlets began reporting on him as, quote, an insanely gifted wilderness survivalist who was eluding the police with his hunting and tracking skills. So this is when he becomes this kind of like folk hero, right? Like he's somehow miraculously evading capture.

They're kind of ignoring the whole part about like how he has to steal bread to survive. Which is wild, because I immediately, when you hit, you had me at zoo. I was like, is he in the enclosures? Like that would have been TMZ worthy, which like I'm aware. By the way, I've not forgotten that this man is a murderer, rapist, awful man. But like if you're looking for the sensational part, it's already happened. The fact that it's happening so much later in the story shocks me. I think it's more now that they're like, Hey, remember that guy?

He like, he's still on the run. It's like, I mean, it's been year, it's been so long now and he's still somehow on the run. And it's just becoming the story of, wow, he's evading capture over and over and over again. Of course, despite this being a suspect in a murder and a salt case, and a missing, salt case of a minor while we're at it. And a missing woman's case. People start hailing him as this like folk hero to the point that local restaurants are naming burgers and drinks after him. Um, people said they respected him despite his crimes. Like it's just gross.

And so he makes his way across the country. He's breaking into people's homes. Emethy, people start leaving food and supplies out for him. Like he's Santa? Literally, a plate of cookies might as well. Literally, I mean, that's wild. I mean, that's the, let's help him continue to evade the police. So he never has to pay for his crimes.

I mean, he. Murdered a woman next to her two children. He also raped a dead woman while her children were walked in the next route. I mean, like. What I get that the story is crazy. I get that the story is great. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like if it happened today, my TikTok algorithm would not be covering this thing through and through. But I mean, we'd all be waiting for the Netflix special.

Yeah, it's really a wild, a wild concept to me. And I guess it's just humanity, I'm sure in the US. I mean, I'm not saying we'd behave any differently as a people. I guess people just romanticized it and said, you know, let me leave out some supplies and hopefully I can assist him in his travels. That's almost worse than the Ted Bundy girlfriends who are like, oh, I want to sleep with him,

I want to date him. That's like, you're helping him. Yeah, you're actively, like he could do that, he can and probably will do that again. Like you're complicit, you're not only complicit, you're like almost an accomplice, you're an accomplice in this now. Man, man, it's just so baffling to me. And so that's kind of why I pointed out earlier too, like he overshadows his victims because his name became such a story, you know what I mean? Kind of like Ted Bundy, right? It's like this name becomes such a notorious thing that the people that he left in his wake, like kind of just get brushed aside.

And so, you know, we know and the police knew at this point that Malcolm was not the master outdoorsman that the news claimed he was, right? He was breaking into people's homes to sustain himself. And apparently his break-ins were getting sloppier. He probably was cocky, like you said. In December 2011, a man called the police, when he caught a photo on his home security system, I mean, now we're in 2011. So we've fast forwarded. We've hit ring era.

Ring doorbells probably exist, I know, maybe. And so his break-ins are getting sloppier. In December, 2011, this man catches a photo on his home security system of a man in his house at 9 p.m. holding a flashlight and walking through the house. Fucking nightmare. Like the fact that this guy already had a security system and everyone was probably like, oh dad, why do you need a security system inside the house? Like, and then this fucking guy's wandering around with a flashlight.

Nightmare. So two regular offices responded the next day because apparently the tactical team already was busy looking for Malcolm somewhere else in the country. So the two, quote unquote, regular officers, like day-to-day officers responded the next day. What they didn't expect when they arrived to the house was that Malcolm would still be inside.

Yeah, essentially this guy with a security camera was not at home. Right. So he's seeing someone's in his house. He calls the police. The police show up and Malcolm is still there alone in the house. Was it just like he needed somewhere to stay and he thought this one would do? Yeah, he's like squatting. Yeah, he's basically squatting and he picked the neighborhood or the house in the neighborhood with the indoor camera.

Smooth. So I mean. Also like, in 2011, like cameras were not that small. Like you'd probably see it if you looked. No, so I had a friend, she was the first friend that might actually have like any home security stuff. And I remember at the back in the day being like, oh, her family is like rich, rich.

Like I've never seen anyone have any home security. It felt like such a luxury, right? Like it still does sometimes like to be able to rig up your house like that. You know how everyone like in the early 2000s had like a mini TV in their like kitchen or like they had like a mini TV somewhere. Yes, yes. Somewhere unnecessary like. All the rage. And it never got watched. It was just like to have it. But it was, I remember them having like four of them in their kitchen

and it was continuously monitoring the cameras because it was like part of the system they purchased. Oh my God. And I remember being like, I remember being like, anytime I went into the kitchen for like a snack, I would see it and I was like, oh my God. And I remember being like, anytime I went into the kitchen for like a snack, I would see it and I was like, oh my God, like I could see everything in this house right now. That is so creepy. It was so, it was just the perimeter of the house, but it was still like, oh, I could see what's happening on every side of the house right now. That's so weird.

So it was just outdoors. Okay, that's good at least. Just outdoors. But I remember like, that was 20, well that was maybe a few years earlier, but the monitors themselves like you can't not see them. So like this guy would have definitely seen. That's what I'm wondering. Like, yeah, I imagine in just a residential home having a security system camera setup inside, you'd think if you were like a master fugitive, you didn't like clock it, but I guess not. I guess, I guess he was just riding high on his zoo escapades and all that.

I have no idea. But police arrived thinking like, oh, we're just going to see if there's any evidence of this break in. No, Malcolm's still fucking inside. So they show up and they see a rifle sitting outside on the porch. And Malcolm began to approach the rifle. He's like kind of gambling the risk because now the officers are drawing their weapons on him. And so he pauses and instead makes a run for the back of the house. He is so skittish. He's like a little stupid bunny.

Like he's like a little bunny. Every opportunity you've talked about in this story so far He has always chosen to run. She's like skedaddle right and it's worked for what it's worth like it's worked so far somehow But so this time he makes a run for the back of the house And they didn't fire because he was unarmed and was retreating and so they secured the rifle and called for backup But by the time backup arrived, Malcolm was long gone. Yep. Some Bonnie and Clyde ship.

Once again, he has, it really is, it feels like, no wonder it's sensational, you know, it's like, it feels ridiculous that he's pulling this off so many times. So they go inside the house finally. Of course, he's gone by now, but they do discover that Malcolm had been acting very strangely inside the house very erratically. He had used a knife to slash the curtains and some clothes and bedding throughout the home and they couldn't really understand why. They also noted that he spent hours on the computer watching porn on this guy's computer. And then it seemed like maybe he was frustrated and he was like lashing out. And that's why there were just knife marks everywhere.

They just, they hoped that this was a sign that he was kind of falling apart, right? That his like journey was coming to an end. And they were right because not long afterward, the police used trail cameras to monitor nearby wooded areas. And that is when they spotted Malcolm on the cameras, making his way to a farmhouse. So March 22nd, 2012, authorities organized a tactical squad and approached this house at night.

And when they saw smoke coming from a fire in the hearth, they confirmed that someone was indeed inside the house. So they contacted the homeowner who said, nope, I'm not home and nobody should be home. And they said, this is our guy. So must be an awkward conversation to tell the homeowner, well, a SWAT team's about to break down your door, so sorry. So do you ask permission at that point, or do you just say, we're going in? Like, oh, well, someone's roasting marshmallows in there.

Not you? It's like, nope, not me. If you're there, I guarantee your neighbors can smell toast as we speak. Yeah, yeah, do you? I feel like I would just stop making toast if I live it. I'd be like, I'm too paranoid for this. Ma'am, are you in the house?

Question number one, question number two. Do you have a toaster? Do you have an oven? Do you have a stove? Do you have a microwave? Is it in use right now? Yeah, is it faulty? Because we might need to call the fire department.

Imagine if you had a microwave, his bread. It's just like the saddest thing ever. He seems very into the hot bread situation. So he's into the hot bread. It's a little weird. He'll do what he has to. I guess so. So they capture him at this farmhouse, right? Or they notice that he's there and he has a fire going. And so they begin closing it on this farmhouse. Yeah, there's a bread. He's toasting a bread in the fireplace probably. And so on their way through the pasture surrounding the house,

they were almost, their cover was almost blown because a herd of cattle charged them in a bowl. I could just see a bunch of policemen just running away from the cows. Literally like in tactical gear, right? Like the most intense, you know, like a SWAT team and then this cow just comes out of the dark and like attacks. Like the Navy SEALs versus two cows.

Versus some farm animals, yeah. So that literally a herd of cattle and a bull charged them but thankfully they were able to make it through the field and get to the back of the house. And Malcolm came outside at this point and officer shouted at him. Malcolm tried to dash inside and escape out the front door. But he was, of course, like we've all seen on criminal minds or SVU.

Intercepted by another police officer who's at the front door and they restrained him on the ground. They asked his name. He said he was Malcolm Nadon and one officer remembers that Malcolm Nadon seemed quote unquote relieved to be arrested. And they asked him, are you tired? And he said, wouldn't you be? Honestly, yeah, I would have been tired a long time ago.

I'm tired right now. If anyone's just hearing it, I'm exhausted. I'm going to take a nap. It's just really exhausting. So in custody, Malcolm initially only confessed to the robberies he'd committed, but requested to remain silent regarding Christie and Letitia. But eventually the detectives provided him with writing materials, told him he could use it to answer any questions he wanted, provide any information at his leisure.

And he ultimately wrote this letter that I was mentioning earlier that confessed to every charge, including Letiticia's abduction and murder It was 25 pages. So I guess I was spot on with with the dozens not the hundreds And apparently when he so he gave details of like what had actually happened In all these circumstances because like remember Leticia's family still has no idea what happened to her. Like she just vanished. And so he confesses to everything. Apparently when Letitia was leaving on her errand,

in early 2005, he stopped her in front of their grandparents' house and asked if she could give him a ride to the beach on her way to run her errand, because he wanted to go fishing. So she let him in the car and on the drive, she brought up the assault allegations against him about the 12 year old girl that he had molested. And he was her family member. And so she wanted to confront him about it and

asked for the truth and said, is this something you really did? You know, like what is going on? Apparently he was enraged and defensive and he grabbed Letitia by the throat and strangled her to death right there in the car. Holy shit. Yeah, for bringing, for bringing it up. He then took over the driver's seat and brought her to a riverbank where he dismembered her

and dumped her body in a shallow grave. And he later strangled Christie to death, like I mentioned in the same fashion. That's how we know that he approached her from behind while she was brushing her teeth. And beyond Malcolm's outright confession, there was also tons of physical evidence linking him to the crimes. And that included DNA. He left his DNA on the collar of Christie's shirt when he strangled her.

His fingerprints in DNA were discovered at multiple break-ins while he was a fugitive. The rifle he abandoned was matched to the rifle that shot the officer in that clearing. And so all of this evidence, stacking on top of itself, plus the Confessions, brought this seven year chase to just an abrupt and simple closure. Seven years, this guy was on the run.

So Nadin faced a number of other charges in addition to Leticia's disappearance and Christie's murder, including that assault of the minor from 2004 plus the shooting of the officer. He was ultimately sentenced to life in prison, which is apparently what he had actively hoped for. Why? Like he thought he could control himself for something? Yeah. He said basically in what's that phrase like in no, in no uncertain terms that once he said something like once you kill, you're going to kill again. You've broken down a barrier and you can't stop yourself. So it sounds like he knew that that would be his life forever

if he wasn't put in jail, like, you know, being on the run and it sounded like he was tired of that. So when he was handed down the sentence, he said to the judge, thank you, your honor. You're welcome. I'm so glad you cleared that up. Right. Wow.

So polite of me. So when Malcolm described his crimes, he said that once he killed Letitia, he could never go back to the person he was before. He described feeling zero remorse, no emotion connected to his crime. Like he just was like, I didn't feel anything. And this like intellectually really confused him.

He said he couldn't understand why he felt nothing when he shot the officer or killed the women. He didn't understand why he continued to feel nothing like nothing could make him feel guilty. And he told detectives, I would kill again. I'm sure of it. So again, I appreciate the confidence. Some candor, some candor there. Yeah. It's almost some candor, some candor there. Yeah. It's almost like sometimes, sorry,

it feels sometimes like serial killers are almost doing things to force an emotion to come out of themselves. Like it feels, I feel like so many times we've talked about like, I don't think like they would even be aware of that. I don't actually think this is a real tactic, but it comes across a lot as like,

you're so desperate to feel something that you're doing the most extreme thing possible to like, to get something out of yourself. To test yourself almost. I mean, I remember with BTK when he said, oh, I would never rape somebody, that's so reprehensible. And it's like, you strangled a child. Are you like, hand child to them?

You did perform sexual acts near bio child too. Yes, and we're sexually, exactly. So it's just like bizarre to me. I'm like, I think there's just this like block, Lego block missing that just like doesn't connect. And a lot of these guys like BCK and this guy are very analytical like self-analytical you know but they're also so grandiose in their own heads they

probably just love to think about themselves but maybe Ed Kemper too was so willing to talk to police like he was like let's get to the bottom of this guys why do I want to why did I try to like ignite a feeling in them or ignite a, I don't know. Or maybe, yeah, or maybe that's the most. They can access, right? Like the most thrill they can access without any sort of empathy to fall back on. It's it's really chilling. So he's finally convicted.

His victims families are, you know, at least they have a little bit of closure, but for years, Letitia's family wasn't sure they'd ever find out what happened to her. They were just living with this like emptiness, and her children were so little that there were four, she had four children, very young, and they would always ask why their mom left them. Like they didn't understand, nobody knew what had happened.

And so Malcolm did tell police where to find Letitia's remains, but an extensive search did not find any clues whatsoever. But in 2012, one of her daughters said in an interview that the family went to the place where Letitia's car was found every year to do like a little ceremony, write notes, release balloons. And she said, we all go there because that's the only place we've got to remember when it was the last time we saw mom. And it's like the riverbank where she was disposed of.

I mean, it's terrible. And so finally, thank God, one of Letitia's bones was discovered by a passerby out for a walk in 2016. And this was over a decade after she had been murdered. Soon they would find more of her remains, and those were recovered. And finally, Letitia was able to be interred with a traditional indigenous burial,

and they were able to pay her the respect that they wanted. Her mother said the discovery brought the family some closure, saying, it's a long time coming, but I can now lay my daughter to rest where she deserves to be. And Letitia's father said, during the funeral, I was looking at the grandkids and thinking, now they've got somewhere they can go for Mother's Day, birthdays, and Christmas and all that. So there's like an actual place where they were able to memorialize her. That's not, you know, a dump site.

Where she, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's nice. Just to even think that the funeral took place over 10 years after she was killed. know, adults where she, yeah, yeah. That's nice. It just even think that the funeral took place over 10 years after she was killed. Like the 10 years of just being in limbo like that is horrifying. So Malcolm's fugitive spree remains one of the most famous criminal cases in Australian history. Um, but as we've talked about, of course, his actions ended up overshadowing the

lives of his victims. Um, and this as I sort of alluded to, but worth noting again, this is sort of just a terrible reality for Indigenous people all around the world. It should not come as a shock to anybody. They face the missing and murdered Indigenous women and people crisis. anybody. They face the missing and murdered Indigenous women in people crisis. And just for some stats, a 2012 report by the Australian Institute of Criminology found that Indigenous women in Australia are six times more likely to be murdered than non-Indigenous women and up to 80 times more likely to experience violence. I know there are similar statistics out there for, for those in North America. Um, and there are episodes I've covered on that as well that you can search for

on the website, um, as a public focus on, and like even named at fucking cheese burgers after the sky, right? And like lunch specials and like left cookies out for him or whatever. guy, right? And like lunch specials and like left cookies out for him or whatever. Basically, Christy and Letitia just kind of faded into a statistic, more or less, you know, it's just, he became this like legend, and they just kind of vanished into the background, which is just especially sad. But of course, their families and friends keep the memory of both women alive. They were loving and they were kind. They were phenomenal mothers, beloved daughters.

The lives they shared with their family and friends, you know, still matter. And they are definitely worth talking about separately from this guy, but definitely telling this guy's story. They shouldn't just be like a throwaway mention, you know, so. And it seems like that's how it's been covered a lot. Like when they sensationalize these kind of stories for that crime show and the

family begged them not to include the details of their daughter's assault and murder and they did it anyway. It's just like there's such a lack of respect and care, you know? Yeah. So anyway, that's the story of Malcolm Nadon, which is apparently quite a household name over there, which I did not realize. I had not heard of it before. Yeah. Wow.

He's a big one. Definitely an interesting one. A sensational one. Yeah, it's it's dark. And I mean, it's dark, but it's also wacky, right? It's like. I mean, you're right, this would be all over TikTok nowadays, like this guy living in the ceilings.

You know, it like sounds like a horror movie, but like he's on the run. Like I can see why it got picked up, but. I can see why it got picked up, too. It's still it still doesn't. I like it. It costs right now. Oh wow. Good one.

Good. You know, I never know what to say. Well done Christine. Thank you, Amethy. Uh, until you see me open a banana, then I, then you'll really be impressed. Then game over. Yeah. What are you doing for the rest of the day,

hanging out with your little banana eater? I sure am. Yeah, in a few minutes, well, after our after hours, I'm gonna head downstairs and show off my skills, grab a little banana, grab a tomato, see if I can maybe cut that open. But I actually had an idea for our after hours. I was thinking maybe we could take one of those online psychic tests for funsies.

Oh gosh, you are so obsessed with me being psychic. I think it's hilarious. I think we're on to something. I am Raven. I don't know if you know that. You are Raven. That's what we've discovered. So I want to make you take a psychic test online with me.

So we'll do that in the after hours for Patreon. Okay, cool. I can predict now I won't actually be very good, but then, does that mean I'm psychic or not when I'm right? Oh, wait a minute. Paradox. So you win either way. You win either way. Yeah, good job. Well, if you would like your last try is at seeing us on tour, we only have a few shows left, so please come if you would like to see on the rocks before we start a whole new tour. And you can join us on Patreon to see all of our silliness over there and drink some watery athirsty little rats. That's right. And that's why we drink.