And That's Why We Drink - E372 A Trash Nap and a Clumsy Girl Ghost

Episode Date: March 24, 2024

It's episode 372: we've done some soul searching and we just don't like hot tomatoes, OK?! This week Em brings us creepy tales from King's Tavern in Natchez, Mississippi, which may involve some "light" possession. Then Christine covers the gut-wrenching case of the murder of Seath Jackson. And don't forget your weekly reminder to drink some water, you thirsty little rats... and that's why we drink!Milwaukee! You're our only On the Rocks show left with tickets available! Come join us in one of our favorite places - get your tickets at [e-mail]

Hi Em. Hello. How are you? I am well. How are you? I'm great. Well, you went like this to me like, like, go fly. So I'm trying to think you're riffin yeah well we both know I usually just jump right in I'm trying to be more conscientious more situationally aware whoa yeah um I am we're having drinks later. Who? You and my therapist? Yeah. I'll tell her that. Yikes. She is going to fire me.

Oh, don't worry. We talked about all of it. I am well for someone who is hungry and sleepy. Oh. Well, I was almost hungry and sleepy when I came up here, but instead I had a cup of coffee and a microwave quesadilla. So I'm ready to party. What flavor was the quesadilla?

I put some shredded Mexican blend cheese and sliced up some tomatoes. Oh, you made it. I said it was in a microwave. Yep. I put it in a microwave for 30 seconds. I know, but they have like frozen quesadillas. Oh, do they? I have no idea. I always thought of a microwave. Yep, I put it in a microwave for 30 seconds. I know, but they have like frozen quesadillas. Oh, do they?

I have no idea. I always thought of a microwave quesadillas as you just put a tortilla with cheese on it. Aha, like the nachos with cheese when we were kids. Yeah, yeah, microwave nachos, right. The chips with cheese, yeah, yeah. Interesting, interesting. Tomatoes, do you put those in pre or post microwave?

Definitely post. I'm not a hot tomato kind of person, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I do understand. Yeah. Sorry, it is the day after trash day and every neighbor decided they're gonna do a fun little synchronized bring the trash bin up the gravel driveway. So let me close my window because it's beautiful out and I thought what a nice spring breeze. I can't hear it to be fair.

Okay, it is like so outrageously loud. Okay, well, fine. Hopefully the gravel driveway, which by the way is like eight feet. So I don't know how many times they're going back and forth. They're actually having the slowest race on earth. They might be.

They might be doing like a full synchronized dance routine. I'm not really sure, but I do apologize if anyone can hear it, but Gio's sleeping next to the open window and I just can't bear I can't bear it. I can't close it. That sweet little angel. I know oh and he loves the sound of the gravel He loves it. He probably loves the sound of the trash. He knows no the smell of the trash. It's a whole 4d experience He loves the stuff. He loves it

Christine I gotta know I gotta know and I gotta know now. What is the reason why you drink? Great question. Um, I had therapy again today. I don't know why I keep scheduling it right before we record. That's wicked fucking bold. It is. It is.

What if you have like, like a revelation? I did. Oh. Well, okay. Like like a revelation. I did oh Well, okay So first of all because I don't know what people are saying about the book if anything or if they even give two shits But that book I finished that book I was talking about where I was like saying it was changing my whole perception of life Perspective and it did it really like changed my life. I feel like it really resonated with me I will add I think if I read it like a year ago

It probably wouldn't have like I would have been like, okay interesting and like moved on really changed my life. I feel like it really resonated with me. I will add, I think if I read it like a year ago, it probably wouldn't have. I would have been like, okay, interesting, and moved on. So if people read it and are like, huh, I think seriously it was just the timing. Second of all, near the end, he kinda lost me. It got a little like...

Two woo woo. A little bit, and also I felt, yeah. I would say maybe two woo woo, and also I think he didn't really address some of the issues that I thought would, like, you know, it's like, oh, throughout life, you know, bad things will happen. Sure, like your dog might die and like you might get in a car, a fender bender.

And I'm like, yeah, but also people get like murdered and raped and stuff. So I feel like there was just a lack of kind of really addressing like big problems in life and more just like, you know You might be sad because you got dumped and it's like, okay Yeah, but I might be sad cuz like my plane my family died in a plane crash You know, I feel like it kind of didn't really wrap up though. I had hope but it was good I feel like it spoke to me. I would give it like four out of five stars

That's good for something that didn't totally speak to you I feel like it spoke to me. I would give it like four out of five stars. That's pretty good for something that didn't totally speak to you. Or is it because like four out of five of the book spoke to you? Yes, that's more what it was. It was like the last couple of chapters, I was like, okay, I was hoping he'd like bring it home, you know, but for me, and maybe he did for some people,

but for me, I'm like, there's a lot of shit that I felt like kind of didn't get addressed, which I don't know. So it might be whatever, but I brought that back to my therapist and then today I was just like, I don't know. I guess I just had a revelation that this is, oh God, why am I talking about this on the podcast?

I don't know. You know that feeling, I don't know if anyone else has it, but I feel like I'm always a different person depending on where I am and whom around. We've talked about this. Like a big ex-million? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just like completely changing. And it got to a point a few years ago where I realized like, I don't even know what I really like. Like, do I just say I

like things because it sounds good or because I think I should like it? Like even music basic stuff and so I'm on kind of this journey to be like what's who? Who is Christine who is that as of who's me? And I think that's why that book spoke to me too because it's like you're not all the Jumbled thoughts in your head like you're separate. You're like, okay, so it's a repurpose Yeah, it definitely it definitely did. So anyway now I'm on a journey to find myself ha ha ha ha But actually funny how the self-help book Isn't even part of the journey yet. It's like oh shit, but I just needed that to crack the window open This is literally it. It's like oh wait. Oh now I have to do the work

Which I feel like it is I thought by the time the book was over the work was over They would have fixed me. It hasn't even begun Yeah, it's it's one of those things where it's like, wow, it's like a painful lifelong journey, I guess, but you know, I'm on it. I'm trying, I'm trying, and I'm trying to figure out what food I really like, and I don't like hot tomatoes. So maybe we can write that down. That's a good start.

Yeah. We learned something today, all of us. I'm so sorry I keep going to these weird, deep like therapy talks, but why do you drink them? I really don't like hot tomatoes. Never have, I did know that about myself without having to read. Does anyone, okay, but sincere question, folks.

I'm not gonna criticize you because Em and I both like kind of weird stuff sometimes, but does anyone really like hot tomatoes? Sound off. I mean, Italians? Sound off in the comments below. Yeah, what you said. I think Italians might, at least the sauce version. In the what concept?

Well, okay, but you don't like tomato sauce? No, I don't like any red sauce. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I just meant like, I don't like a sliced tomato being hot. I know what you meant. I know, but I decided to Raise you you know Raise the bar up a little bit. What about what about tomato soup? Oh Well, we talked about this. I love it. That's the only soup. I like actually that's I mean I

Never really liked it for the taste and then I thought one day I'll grow into it But before I could get to that point in my life, I started getting incredible acid reflux problems. Oh yeah, they would have done a lot. Good point, good point. So I didn't even get a chance to become friends with her. I'm honestly glad. It's like we were friendemies. I thought maybe when we get older

and we mature a little bit, we'd become like maybe friends. But then she moved away. That's to say she moved across the ocean. It's just not gonna happen for you. That's fine. Yeah. I think that's fine for the best. It's just not going to happen for you. That's fine. I think that's fine for the best. She was going to damage your heart, literally. You're right.

She was going to be toxic no matter what, so maybe the relationship wasn't meant to be. Very acidic. Not helpful because also bad for my acid reflux, I just think it's yummier so it's more worth the risk, is I love a cream sauce. I love a cream sauce, I love a lemon sauce. So Italian food, if you happen to be like an Italian who's making me something from scratch because you saw me walk down the street,

I will not be fully enjoying anything based with red sauce. Fun fact. Okay, take note Italians who see Em coming down the street and have decided to whip up a little on your back Yeah, whip up a little a little soup. Oh, I don't know I love a chicken cutlet covered in some sort of cream or lemon sauce. So I like a piccata I like my even just at the word call it me. Yeah bad Anyway, no, I've always known I don't like hot tomatoes, but I do love a cold tomato and a room temperature tomatoes fine

very interesting, um known I don't like hot tomatoes but I do love a cold tomato and a room temperature tomatoes fine. Very interesting. So I guess that's why I drink. Wow, you know it's I love when we both bring like heavy hitters to the table. You know what I mean? Thank you. Yeah, we got to you know, keep each other equal. I guess we do. Balance it out.

Um, I and you know what's so weird and I I hope this rolls onto you a little bit, is I woke up today, this does not happen often. I don't know if it's hormonal, I don't know if it's medical, and I need to see a doctor immediately, but I woke up today and I went, today's gonna be a good day. Oh.

I know, so I hope that is universal. I don't know. I know you're not gonna listen, but I read so many self-help is universal. I don't know. I know you're not going to listen, but I read so many self-help books. Can I say something? And you don't have to listen to me, but if anyone else wants to follow this advice, feel free. And I hate giving people advice

when they're like not asking for it. So I apologize, take it or leave it. But one cool trick that I learned is when I, cause I also rarely have those kinds of moments when it does happen, I make a note like in a planner or just a journal or my notes app on my phone. And then I kind of see like what the pattern is, you know, it's like, Oh, did I like, did anything change or was it just your brain? Oh, for me,

I didn't really follow my own advice and I just forgot to do it. But, um, in general, I feel like it's, and usually it's not like when I wake up, or it's like a different, I use it in different contexts. But I think like with something like this, when you wake up and you're like, I'm in a good mood, it's like, huh, put it in your calendar.

See, like, what's the deal with that? It's a random Tuesday. Did you have a really good dream last night? Did you eat some cold tomatoes before bed? I don't know. Ooh. When I was younger, I used to actually convince myself, which now in hindsight maybe was some sort of

just manifesting or just like really summoning whatever it took to make it real. But when I was younger, I would wake up in the morning and I could actually just think to myself, today's gonna be a great day and then it would be. So it is the power of positivity. That's it, because I used to do that, actually that's also kind of what that book is about,

so fun fact, but where it's like, why would you feel bad about, like why would you feel negative about things, just be like positive and I'm like, okay, to an extent, I do love that, to a certain extent. To an extent, yeah. If my family dies in a plane crash, not gonna feel so good, you know?

Today is one of those weird ones though where I didn't have to convince myself,. To an extent, yeah. If my family dies in a plane crash, not gonna feel so good, you know? Today is one of those weird ones though, where I didn't have to convince myself something else told me. So there's like that calmness of, oh, it's not even in my control, it's just gonna be a good day. But I guess I'm gonna force the pattern onto you, which is that I'm here.

That's fine. Hey, you know what? I will write that down as one of the good things that happened today. I see you a lot though, and you don't seem to have that feeling very often. So I don't know if I've really... I don't know. A lot of times that I see you, I have to be on a stage.

So... That is true. Yeah. Although I will say, I had my therapy yesterday. Congrats. Jordan says hi. We have been talking extensively about... I know, we're meeting later. Don't worry about it. Well, then you know this. What I'm about to say is that we have been speaking extensively about- I know, we're meeting later. Don't worry about it. Well then you know this, what I'm about to say is that we have been speaking extensively on whether or not she can- girl.

Just drinks of Kabootsch. I think you just wanted the attention. That's what it felt like. I'm like a toddler. Everyone look at me. No, her and I have been talking about whether or not she can listen to the podcast, which I love that she's asked, but apparently I did not sound enthusiastic enough that she felt like it was actually consensual. Do you think she's going to her therapist and being like, no, but like, here's the tone of voice, which my client used. Probably.

Apparently there's like, they have, she has like meetings with other people, with other therapists that like, I guess she works in like a co-op in some way. I guess someone said, oh, well, there's someone who has a client that does something along the lines of what we do. I don't know if it's podcasting. I don't know if it's like, what if it was me? Can you imagine? I'm like, wait, we go to the same practice?

I guess that person lets, that person has a client who lets them in more on their career and I am not doing that yet. And so I guess Jordan was like, oh, well, they get to listen or they get to engage. I'm like, I get it, girl. And I did say that she was welcome to listen, but it was not enthusiastic enough. Also, Jordan, do you know how long the episodes are? I feel like Jordan's saying, oh, I'm going to listen, and doesn't realize that these are not normal podcast length.

They're crazy long. Also, how embarrassing would it be if my own therapist decides that she has to turn it off immediately, because she's just not having fun? If you're like, oh, what did you think? And then she's like, oh, it was fine. Like, oh, that would be so bad. Oh yeah, nevermind.

Don't listen, Jordan. I can't stand it. I can't even stand the thought. I know, it makes me so uncomfortable, but I don't know why, because I'm sure she's a homie. Like she's got that good energy. Like she would have probably a fun. Yeah, because we don't want her to reject us.

Mm, yeah, what if we said something? Well, I did say, I was like, what if you judge me afterwards? Like, what if we said something, well, I did say I was like, what if you judge me afterwards? Like, what if you know too much, you know? But then that's kind of your job, right? But that's kind of the point, right? Maybe I have cards I'm holding close to my chest that I don't even know about, you know?

Yeah, that are like getting publicly spoken to everybody, but not your therapist. I love that idea, like, this is too private. You can listen to what I tell you in secret, but you can't listen to this public platform. It's too private. I think because the way that as a therapist, she does a really good job of like calling me out right away.

And like, I feel like here is a platform where we all laugh about our trauma. And she does not, she's not here for that. Oh, she's not gonna like that part. Oh, okay. Well then, well, maybe don't listen to her. Again, I feel like that's the straight three. I don't know if she'll like it or not,

but it's not in her character It's not in her character. And so I think the fact that we're like, ha ha ha did our parents love us. Ha ha ha I think she'll unpack that let's unpack them. Okay You know what? Let's not okay, because I don't see you with the microphone. Bye. Bye Jordan. You're in my house now We don't talk about that. I'll see you at cocktail hour later, okay? Bye. Anyway, that's why I drank because I would, I in theory have no problem with my therapist listening,

but also the second that an invitation was requested. Presented itself, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what, there's something I'm apparently terrified of her finding out, but maybe it's that I just don't want her to hate the show and then thus hate me as a client and be like, oh, this fucking person has to come through.

This annoying person, yeah. It just seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone. So I'm with you. I don't think it's necessarily the best idea. At some point it will be a yes, but I don't know when. It will be an enthusiastic yes, because so far it's a sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Maybe once we solve all our trauma then she oh without my therapist great

Well, just oh no, I see you're saying I once we're fixed then the show can be listened to by people who? So she has to do her job first before she right that's her reward Ever to listen to a free podcast that's 16 hours long anyway, you know it will make me rip my own eyeballs out and my ears is when Next session she plays this for me Okay, I'll make it stop by telling you a spooky story Christine By the way, I know you're drinking some booch, but I don't wanna let the tradition down just yet. I still have an LD in hand.

And I gotta tell all my thirsty little rats, drink some water. I even brought up a... Did you? You're gonna be a TLR today? I'm gonna be a TLR and look at this Bigfoot sticker. Oh my goodness a Bigfoot on a big cup. That's right. All right, glug glug everyone To know that that's some people's one weekly reminder to hydrate themselves, it's mine I

Mean I'm not even joking Nobody has ever tells me to drink water because when my phone does it, I get so angry even though I told my phone to tell me. If someone knows how to like isolate sound bits and turn them into like like a sound for your phone, like an alarm sound. Oh, well then we should, is there a way to broadcast that to everybody where they all have access to it? Yeah, I'll call an amber alert and then instead of the, it'll just be like you talking.

I meant if someone wanted to hear like if for some reason someone out there needed to hear drink some water, Thersula rats, and they could attach it to their own timers. To an alarm. Yeah, yeah, I can make that happen. Maybe that can be a Patreon perk. Ooh, I do like that. You get to download, cause I know some podcasts, including my other one, give an MP3 of the theme song as a ringtone as a Patreon perk.

So why don't we do that? We'll make a little Thirsty Little Rats sound for Patreon. Oh, I love that, okay. Eva, please don't forget, because I will. By the way, happy belated, it was Eva's birthday earlier this week. I know, our Pisces, our little fish. Our little fish.

Oh, maybe that's why. Okay, so recently, okay, this is my last story, and then I'll go into this. Christine was there as a witness to the fact that Eva- Oh my God, yes. Somehow missed a whole chunk of childhood and never experienced the little red cellophane lucky fortune fish. Yeah. Where it comes in.

You guys know what we're talking about, right? Like, okay, Megan, can you put a poll? I'm giving people homework, but Megan, can you put a poll? Cause I'm curious. Cause you've got never heard. Can you also put a picture on the screen so people can just see it right now and know what we're talking about? Yeah, Jack, your homework is to put a picture of the fish. But no, if you if you it was this like it was like in carnival machines and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a festival might have it as like a free prize. Yeah, it was like the cheapest prize you could ever give a kid.

And they thought it was amazing. It was the perfect like, I don't know what the economical terms are, but like like some sort of supply and demand phrase. But the fact that it was so cheap and it was so amazing and incredible to children that they had to have one, it was the perfect product. Whoever invented that, I hope they retired as a billionaire up into the mountains and were like, I've done my deed for the world.

I also hope so. So, no, they were like these red fish-shaped pieces of cellophane, and based on your hand, which I still don't know the science of, but I think it was just based on heat, however it sat in your hand, whether it crawled up or it laid flat, or however it moved, it was supposed to tell you something about yourself.

Yeah, and so it moves in your hand, which was always the magical part, but it's just some sort of basic, I'm sure some basic physics, but yeah, it just, the wind, it just moves on your hand. And so Eva had never seen one, and Emma and I were like delighted to watch her discover it for the first time.

And so yeah, I guess she is a little, our lucky fish. She's our lucky fish, Eva is. Yeah, Eva for Halloween, can you just dress up as one of those fish? That would be- Well, she has intimated that she might get a tattoo of the lucky fish. So that's true. Yeah, we've really, you know, the illusion of a world with no cellophane fish has been

shattered for her. So yeah, sorry, but you're in the real world now. If only that was how easy the matrix was. Yeah, take the Neo stick your hand out. and we'll see if you're in love. Blue pill or red fish? Yeah, just hold still. Christine, I have a classic story for you today. Oh, okay.

And by classic, I mean like an old school ghost story, which I'm very excited about. I was up until 4 a.m. doing my notes. You know it's going to be good when I stay up until 4 a doing my notes. You know, it's going to be good when I stay up till 4am. That's how you know. And it is called the King's Tavern. It sounds haunted. Was it the sound? Was it the booing? It wasn't. I'm sorry. I know. It wasn't, but it could be. Okay, like a 1% extra. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like it just boosted it a little bit. It elevated the experience. It sure did, it sure did.

Okay, so this is in, I hope I'm saying it right, Natchez, Mississippi. Blank stare. Cool. I did listen to other people say it, and it sounded like Natchez to me. But I don't know if I'm really supposed to enhance the Chez, Natchez, you know. But what I can tell you about it instead of how it's pronounced is that it is the oldest settlement on the Mississippi River and the King's Tavern is the oldest standing building in that town.

So this is currently the oldest standing building in the oldest settlement on the Mississippi River. Wonderful. And it is built out of sun dried tomatoes. And I know I was. Oh wait, how do you feel about a sun dried tomato? Absolutely thrown in the trash. Agreed.

Set it on fire. There's just no reason. And we did it. We finally found our tomato common ground. Oh, I'm sleeping. I just literally yeeted their headphones off. Oh man, no, a sun-dried tomato can honestly kiss my ass. Like disgusting. And then when they leave

the end of it where like the tomato vine was, it's like now you wanna make me eat a dried up like leaf root thing? Get out of here. I gotta be honest, whoever created that can rot. Like it's gross. It's gross.

It feels like you're eating a raisin, but it's tomato. But it's tomato raisin. You're right, it's a tomato raisin. It's literally tomato raisin. That's fucking gross. And the fact that you want to put a raisin, but it's tomato, but also a snut. But it's tomato raisin. You're right, it's a tomato raisin. It's literally tomato raisin. That's fucking gross. Think about it everyone. And the fact that you want to put a raisin in my pasta. I'm gonna get upset.

Yeah, I just can't even pretend to be on board with that. One more second and I'm gonna snap. When other people order it, or if I see them ordering a dish and they don't say no sun dried tomatoes, I always hope that they're making, that they forgot to say it to the waiter. They're gonna be so disappointed when their meal comes. I'm like, oh, you fucked up.

You just made a huge, huge mistake. And then the plate gets to the table, they do that, they twirl their little fork around in the pasta, they go slurp, slurp, slurp, they're eating it real good. Not a one complaint. And I'm like, oh, well, we just can't be friends anymore. Actually, you're not even there anymore. You've left. That's the truth. Yeah. The only thing I like about a tomato is when it's juicy. So if you're going to take the one quality about it away.

Right. Don't make it hot and don't make it dried up. You said it. That's a reason. That's a reason. And so anyway, this building was... This is the dumbest fucking show. Jordan, stop listening. I'm so mad at you right now. I'm so mad at you.

I think Jordan doesn't realize she got by proxy a whole other client. I'm like, I'm meeting mad at you. I'm that every therapist. I think Jordan doesn't realize she got by proxy a whole other client. No, I'm like, I'm meeting with her later. I feel like the more I say it, people are going to be like, is that a real thing? No, I'm just being fucking annoying and I'm sorry. My sessions are all of a sudden going to be her wanting to analyze you. Yeah, you're going to be coming to me with some really specific advice and I'm going to be like, that's weird. Where did you come up with that?

You're going to be like, that's weird. Where did you come up with that? You're like nowhere, just my own head. Yes, King's tavern is built out of sun dried bricks. But also here's an even more fun fact, according to me and maybe nobody else is that it's also made from recycled wood. And this wood originally came from the flat river boats that would come down the river to sell goods. Oh, but then I guess I don't know river science. Okay. I don't understand. I do.

So I'll help. Okay. So, uh, these boats, I guess they could not come back up the river because they were flat bottom. Yep. So they basically, they, no, I'm serious. Right. because they were flat bottom? Yep. So they basically, no, I'm serious. Oh, I was like, all right asshole. As a flat bottomed individual, no. Um.

Oh. Okay. Okay. Oh God. Okay, so we grew, I grew up on the Ohio River, which feeds into the Mississippi River, right? And so we learned a lot about, we had to go to Tall Stacks, which was like the big festival on the river

where they had all the steamboats. And we learned at the museum, they have a whole steamboat set up. You learn about how the boats work and how they shipped goods. And you can still hear barges from my house sometimes. For a long time, I thought it was a train. And my brother's like, that's not a train, that's a barge.

And I was like, oh, interesting. But anyway, the flat ones, yeah, they go down a certain direction. They basically get, boop, put in the water, you load it up with goodies. And then it's, and by goodies, I mean just like fucking wood or coal or some shit. And then it gets like, booo, yeeted down,

I don't know why I keep saying that word, down the river. It's like I'm hanging out with a gen alpha all of a sudden. Yeah, I know, right? Look at me go. And then they, but they can't like, they don't have like motors or anything, right? They're just kind of like floating along. Drifting. Yeah, drifting.

Tokyo drifting. So, but how come they can't come back up the river? Because the river current flows one way. Oh, I didn't know if there was like they like in my brain my eight-year-old understanding of rivers is like wouldn't you just Build a Hill or something through it so that way there would it could flow another direction or a Thing I think you could like change the way the Mississippi River flows, but maybe I'm wrong. Obviously not, but in my mind, there was a way where you would just take a shovel and

kind of just dig, dig, dig in a certain area so the water would flow a different direction as a little, an offshoot of the real river and you could direct how that... I just think if you're going to cross the United States, that's just a lot of... That's a fair thing to say. Do you know what I mean? If you're coming from all the way up, that's just a lot of that's a fair thing Do you know what I mean? Like if you're coming from all the way up here all the way through it's gonna be a long way to try and dig Your way back you might as well. I think it's a miracle that I Made it past elementary science, but also it makes me really sad for the teachers. I'm like

You must have been struggling at least with me Anyone who doesn't live in like a historic river town would ever learn I don't think so So I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. All right Quickly moving on. Oh, wait. No, we can't because we're in the middle of the fun fact. So So the building was made of sun-dried bricks and recycled wood from these boats because since the boats couldn't come back up the rivers, the people who were selling the goods on the boat were like, why don't I just add to my profit

and then rip the boat apart when I'm done with it and then sell those scraps as wood scraps. It's a reducer used to recycle. I kind of love it. And then I'm like, did you just like walk all the way back? What'd you do? They take a boat, like a different boat or like a steamboat or a train. I don't know.

Hmm. Because OK, anyway, we could talk about this forever because I my brain. Well, you want to I'm ready. Let's do it. No. OK, so anyway, that's the fun fact. It's made of old boat. And in 1769, they say that the original structure here was built, 1769, which in US terms, that's an old fucking building. Well, that's not even in US terms, right? Well, it's Mississippi.

I know, but it hasn't even become the US. Oh, yes. Yeah, totally. But I mean, like for us to even have like history of this land is... Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean like for us to even have like history of this land is, is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty old school. It goes past 1800. Right, right, right. So 1769, the original part here was built and just like how you said, it's not even American yet because it was built for the British as a block house or an observation point. And then after a revolutionary war, it ended up being part, it became part of our land,

obviously, and it was bought by Richard King and his family. Oh, I understand. That's the name of that. Because I thought King's Tavern was the Brits being like, you must abide by our King, but no. Totally, I thought the same thing as I was going through the history.

Yeah, isn't that kind of ironic? That's kind of funny. I know. Oh, well then, an American quote, I don't even know as I was going through the history. Yeah, isn't that kind of ironic? That's kind of funny. I know, like, oh well then an American quote, I don't even know what that means in 1780. A colonizer. A one day American whose name happened to be King. That's pretty wild. I know, that is actually, I hadn't put it that way in my head yet.

So the King, nope, now you fucked me up, not the king. So Richard King took this old observation point, turned it into a tavern and inn. And also another fun fact is he, because the country was so new, he turned it into like the town's first post office. And he wasn't, it's not like he was like a postmaster or anything, but he kind of made like a makeshift in the back. He would just take people's packages and mail them for him. And I learned, I mean, you might mention this, but I learned from my brother recently that you need to that back then, well, I don't know if it was back then, I don't know what, what year or what decade, but to, in order to be incorporated as a town, you needed a post office.

So maybe he's like, oh, was it already a town? I think it had like, last week it became a town. Okay, okay, so maybe they went hand in hand. You know, I don't know, it has to be updated since, but I remember in school, you know, the school where they didn't teach me about rivers enough. Uh, I always heard that you had they didn't teach me about rivers enough. I always heard that you had to have five things to be a town.

You had to have a school, a hospital, a post office. I think it was like a grocery store and a police station or a courthouse and a grocery store. And a five below. It was a B-dubs. I don't know if there has to be... That's not enough things in today's world, so I feel like it's changed. But I do believe the post office thing. You have to have a post office. The post office thing I feel like makes some sense, at least back then.

And... Buh-buh-buh. So yeah, so he turned it into a makeshift post office. He and he renovated into a tavern. Now, this is where I want to tell you about one of my adventures while we've been traveling lately, which I think was Connecticut. I don't, they all get so muddled up. I go to like a hundred places per town. So I can't keep up. I think it was in Connecticut.

I'm pretty sure. but there's a museum that has a whole exhibit just dedicated to old tavern signs that have been saved since like the beginning of the town. Cool. I can send Megan some pictures if anyone feels like that's interesting to look at. But there was like tavern signs from like the 1700s.

Cool. And it feels like it was probably Connecticut. That feels like Connecticut. It was probably somewhere in New England at least. But so it was just this whole room of preserved tavern signs that were hand painted. They were like hand carvedcarved by the people because it was all wood at the time. And I guess at the time, it was common.

I don't know if it was like mandatory, but a lot of the signs I saw that were from the 1700s and early 1800s is where I saw it ending, is all the signs said at the bottom, entertainment for man and horse. And that was apparently, and horse was not spelled with an E, it was just H-O-R-S, like hors d'oeuvres. Okay.

But apparently, that was like the phrase originally to let people know as they're driving into town and they're looking for a place to stay if they see on any painted sign entertainment for man and horse that meant we're a tavern and probably an inn. You're kidding me So the horse gets fed to and can park I guess that's what it means by entertainment for the horse But yeah, it's like well keep your horse while you go to take a nap. Whoa. So wait, why is there no E? Is that just how they spelled horse? I guess so. I don't and then that makes me wonder What's the history of the E becoming part of horse?

Yeah, maybe they put the basketball game. You know what, smart ass, hang on. When did horse start being spelled with an E? with an E. OK, it immediately I'm at the Chronicle, the chrono of horse, the chronicle of the horse. Oh, some horse girl probably writes for this. OK. Obviously. Which, by the way, wouldn't trust anyone else's opinion.

I was going to say, who else would we expect to write something so informative? So Old English Horse from Proto Germanic. Wow. Oh, okay. So horse, H-O-R-S is Old English and it comes from the Old Norse. Imagine it in your head. I see, I see.

So other words for horse at the time were old, in Old Norse it was H-R-O-S-S, so gross with an H instead of a G. Okay. There was also H-O-R-S, there was O-R-S. Where the fuck does the E show up? So there's just like a multiple, multiple ways to say it. I'm looking for this damn E and I don't see anything. I did that didn't help me. Oh

The I refused to move on until we figure this out Nope, I give up. Okay Emma Christine by the way, Jack did not cut out of silence in there like if you if you like By the way, Jack did not cut out of silence in there. Like, if you, if you, like, hear Em say, I'm gonna, we're gonna sit here until I figure this out, and then we'll, in the same breath, say,

never mind, I give up. There was no editing. That was just straight fucking through. Beautiful. I felt the pressure. I didn't like it, so I was like, I mean, there was, like, literally no pressure, but you know what? I appreciate you trying your best. If for some reason you end up doing like a bathroom break,

I might go back to the perusing, but until then it was, yeah, the dopamine rush was over very quickly. Okay. Okay, I guess we'll never know. So the King's Tavern was a tavern and also a makeshift post office and probably set entertainment for man and horse without an E on the sign.

And King's Tavern became this big popular spot, but because Matcha's Mississippi was a port town, and specifically because this area of town was on the main route back to the river, it was a prime target for outlaws to prey on travelers. Oh boy. Because they would sell all their goods, make all this money from selling all their goods,

stay at the tavern, and they had just pockets full of money because they had just sold all their goods when they came into town. Yeah, that seems like it'd be rife with some bad folk. Yeah, so there was a lot of bad folk who knew this routine, and so they would stay at the tavern just waiting for people with a bunch of money to come in and

either rob them while they were staying at the end that night or Also get a room that night and follow them out to the to the route by themselves And it sounds a little like a Not as intense but it feels a lot like the Shanghai tunnels that we've talked about where they would just rob people coming in, but they would like drop them down into a dungeon and then traffic them out to see traffic them. And it was a lot of times travelers are people who like quote unquote wouldn't be missed because they weren't being, nobody knew where they were. Or, oh. So because there was this was a big area for the outlaws,

there was a lot of criminals that would stay here or at least pass through. And the most famous of them was a pair of brothers called, I think the Harp Brothers. It was Harp with an E. So I don't know if it's Harp-E or whatever, but I think it's the Harp brothers. They were allegedly- Well, it's not Horsey M, so.

They were allegedly America's first serial killers, which I feel like a lot of people try to claim that title, but they're in the running. I was gonna say, oh, so was H.H. Holmes and so was the Bender family. So I don't know. The Bender family. Yeah. But they, you know, they're one of the first, I guess. I mean, if America really has only been like 10 years old, maybe if the US is only a few years old. Yeah, that's it. They got a good head start. I will give them that.

We'll say they're one of the first sets of serial killers Because they wouldn't just rob these travelers They like had a full-blown interest in the absolute worst kind of maiming torturing pillaging fuck Which I feel like Jordan if you're listening I wonder what that means as like people who probably just like experience the Revolutionary War like I I wonder Not to justify like what they were going through, but I wonder yeah, no Like, I wonder, not to justify, like, what they were going through, but I wonder... Miming people.

Yeah, no, but I wonder, like, mental illness-wise, if therapy was where it is today, I wonder what people would be saying about them based on, like, what was going on in the world, you know? I mean, probably what I say about every serial killer, which is, like, what a damaged past they have and terrible coping skills and maybe they're a sociopath or psychopath, I don't know. I would bet that these people absolutely had some just natural things they were dealing with mentally. They had to have some tendencies

because you can't just, just because you got a war doesn't make you a gruesome, brutal serial killer with like, you know. No, but I was thinking more like, well, I guess the years, it doesn't add up years-wise. I was going to say, I wonder if there's some sort of, I don't know, trauma of like their family went to war and then they heard all these stories and they got really normalized for them I don't like I don't know if there was anybody everybody helped along in that war. You know what I mean? Yeah sure like I'm just saying like, you know, there must be some natural inclination because

Otherwise everyone who was traumatized would be a fucking serial killer I do wonder what the psychology of it cuz I feel like we hear a lot of like World War two and like you hear About like shell shock and things like that. I feel like I don't know anything about the psychology of people after the Revolutionary War. Well, because we're not studying the psychology of people after the Revolutionary War.

I know, I know. It would be interesting to learn about if- Time travel once again. Where is it? Hurry up. I would love for like a league of therapists to go back in time and just tell us what was going on with these people after the fact.

That would be such a good screenplay. You're the writer between us. You handle that. Mm-mm. That sounds like so much work. I would have to study stuff. Anyway, regardless of environment, these people were fucked up.

Like these were, I'm not trying to blame it on anything. That was just, that became a side tangent in case anyone wants to like I don't know get get mad about that, but No, they were just probably naturally all on their own a hundred percent awful people Because they were let's see let's give let's give you an example their gangs calling card was to gut people And then remove their insides, refill them with rocks and sink them in the river. What enough? I mean, what the fuck?

That's what I'm saying. Like I should have probably said that before I went on my little bout before people think that I'm like conflating to situations. But no, they were with or without their scenarios. It's a pretty icky situation. Yeah, they were fucked up. They also had wives, which were young girls that were kidnapped.

Oh, God. And they would do X, Y and Z to these poor girls. God. If they got them pregnant, the baby was not going to be around afterwards. Oh my Lord. And then they would just continue to do whatever they wanted to these girls until they guess, I guess they got bored of them, got rid of them, found new ones. And yeah, so they're not immoral to be found. Uh, fun fact about them though, both of them in separate instances,

they like parted ways. They both end up being killed. They both end up being beheaded and their heads both end up mounted on the same road as warnings to people. Ooh. Isn't that weird? Ooh, that's creepy. One of them, like, I don like, I don't know all the details of each of their stories, but I know one of them was beheaded. The other then, like, witnessed that and ran off to, like, join a band of pirates or something.

And then he ended up getting in trouble with the court. So then they executed him and beheaded him next to his brother. Oh. Or put his head next to his brother. Oh. Or put his head next to his brother. Ooh, okay. And one of the spots where one of their heads was mounted is still called Harp's Head Road.

Dear Lord. Can you imagine when you like move to the area and you're like, oh, Anzala, there's this beautiful like little cabin. And you're like, hey, what's the history of the name? And the realtor is like, I would not know. I don't know, don't look it up. Don't look that up look it up yeah cuz I would think like head like Harp's head hmm what could that mean what could that mean I would never think oh it's too awful awful awful like

serial killers being beheaded here you know and displayed right outside your home yeah so they frequented King's Tavern and because of them, or at least one of the brothers, we have our first death at the Tavern. While alive, one of them loved to hang around King's Tavern but the story goes, hmm, I don't know if you wanna hear this one. I don't know if I wanna hear it

cause you just made a creepy pause. Do you wanna take your headphones off while I say this to everybody else. Are you serious? I think so It's a baby. Oh, okay. Yeah, go ahead. I'm not listening. Okay, so they Basically while he was alive, he liked to hang out around the bar and one night He was annoyed by one of the lodgers Who was staying there because she had a crying baby in her room and he did not like that So he went up to her room grabbed the baby from the mother's arms grabbed the baby's ankles and Slammed the baby into the wall and that's how the baby died

Thumbs up and Christine felt weird. The baby died. Well, I figured. I'm assuming they didn't throw him a birthday party. I heard nothing what happened. It was the longest explanation of whatever horrible thing. I just, it kept going. But also I found myself in a very peaceful state. And, you know, in the future it would be nice every now and then for one of us to just take our headphones off because I just heard the breeze And I just watched you talk, but I couldn't hear anything. It was actually quite peaceful. Oh good Well, I know that's a that's a personal sensitivity for obvious reasons I appreciate you saying that in all like in all seriousness and not just joking because that was probably good for my brain

Thank you. I don't think you would have and And also I feel bad. I hope anyone else who was listening understood that a content warning was coming. I agree. I hope the gist was like clear. So yeah, fast forward with me. But yeah, anyway, so the first death was a baby and it was one of the Hart brothers doings. And another death here, moving on quickly, is said to be of a waitress named Madeline. And Madeline, I guess she started here as a server, but the legend goes that Richard King, the owner of the tavern, had an affair with her

and his wife found out. And it's said that the wife stabbed her to death with a dagger. Oh my God. And one day, conveniently around this time, Madeline goes mysteriously missing. No one ever finds her. And we'll come back to this real quick.

But just know that the story goes that Richard's wife killed her. Oof, OK. So then with the advent of the steamboat, all of a sudden, there were less stops passing through this area. Aha, see? Because now they can go backwards. Yeah, and so because now that there are new inventions that keep people from coming here

all the time, the tavern starts suffering. And in 1817, the king's, the king family sells the tavern and ends up being bought. Yeah, 1817. And ends up being bought by the Postal Wave family. Oh boy, oh boy. Big old name. And they ended up living in this house for like five generations. I think they said it was almost 150 years.

Oh jeez, oh my god. Which is wild because people still think of it as a tavern, but for like a big chunk of it, it was someone's home. Well, I also, it's funny that they keep calling it King's Tavern probably because Postal Waif or whatever is not as catchy of a title, even though they're the ones that were there for so long. I know, it's like, yeah, I wonder if people

just couldn't pronounce it. It's kind of the same ring to it, yeah. Postal Waif. Postal Waif? Postal Waif, yeah. Postal Waif? Ial waif. Yeah. Postal waif? I'm glad you do that too. Because in my head I'll just be making every sound version of that possible. Which a witch. Yeah. Although multiple family members probably died on the property, just because 150 years of someone living there, something must have happened. The only one that

we know for sure is that one of the women in the 1860s who lived there, her name was Elizabeth Postlewaite. Postlewaite. Postlewaite. Postlewaite. And she died in the 1860s. We don't know how. We just know that she did. Okay. So she's maybe one of the ghosts. The family, while still living there in the 1930s, they were like, oh, this building's actually been around since like the 1770s. It's time for a reno. Let's just like give her, give her, put some lipstick on that pig. It's like a fresh coat of paint.

Yeah, lipstick. Yeah, lipstick on the pig. Some paint on that barn. And so while they were doing renovations, I think this was in 1932, they broke apart the chimney in the main room, which was where the tavern was. And when they broke through the chimney, they found three skeletons. Two of them were men.

Imagine just knowing that for the last like 1817 to 1930s, that's 30, 80, that's literally over a hundred years of living there. And just to find out now the like the area you like had the Christmas tree and like. I just feel like I would no longer believe in ghosts because I'd be like, well, if one never showed itself to me and I'm living with three dead bodies in the fireplace.

That's a great point. Then they can't be real, sorry, I just don't believe it. That's a great point. But also I'd be like, wow, I've just been like having every family affair, every function, every event of my life has just been next to three skeletons in a terrifying time. Yeah, horrifying.

Which I think honestly, I mean, I guess it's sort of the case for a lot of people who live, I mean, you would know though most of the time, like living by a cemetery or having people buried in the backyard. Yeah, but your cemetery or like in your living room, you know? Yeah, right, exactly. And you would know presumably if it were like where someone was laid to rest versus like, oh, they're just in the walls. We never told you about it. That's a yeah, it's so freaky. Um, and I guess the

only reason they were doing renovations is because the chimney never really worked when they were there. So they never turned it on. Holy shit. They were like, oh, I guess we'll eventually get to that chimney thing. Oh my God. And so that's why they were like, these skeletons were like preserved because they weren't having fires in this thing. Oh, I thought they were like setting the fire and being like, why does it keep going out? Why is it like dead fucking body?

Yeah. Why does this have like a dead fucking body? Megan. Megan. Oh, throwback. So, yeah, found three skeletons in there. Two were men, and to this day we don't know who they were. Oh my God. I saw one source say maybe it was the Hart brothers, but then that goes against every other source talking about the beheading thing.

Well, yeah, I guess if they were headless, maybe, but sounds like they were not. And then one is a woman and she happens to, I guess, I don't know what the science was in the 1930s, but I guess she seemed to be the age and size of Madeline. Oh, shit. Okay. Okay. Okay. And next to the female skeleton was a bejeweled dagger. And so I don't know. A bejeweled of all things, wow.

I know, I know. Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. And I feel like, I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg situation, I don't know if they saw the skeleton and this dagger and put that story of Madeline together, or there really was Madeline and she went missing and the king, the King family like had some sort of quarrel with her. And then they happened to find a skeleton and a dagger. I don't know which came first, but the story ends up kind of putting these two events together. Okay. I got you. I got you.

So many think that this skeleton was Madeline and that Mrs. King either killed her herself with the dagger or paid someone else to do it and then bricked her into the very room she and Mrs. King's husband were flirting and having the affair, which is so symbolic and... It feels real personal for sure. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, just how you were saying, if I've been in this room for 100 years and never saw a ghost with three dead bodies next to me Then like ghosts shouldn't be real. Yeah. Well, I

Guess I don't know if that's how they felt but it doesn't sound like they ever had an experience with anything paranormal Until the spirits were found Removed So now you believe in good now I believe in ghosts in this yeah, okay I'm back to believing them within ghosts in this scenario. Okay, got it. I'm back to believing them within a day or two. Okay. So we don't know much about the Postal, Possible Wave family's experience with ghosts.

We just know that the first recount of them is from the 70s. Okay. But the renovation didn't happen or only happened in the 30s. So there's a 40 year gap that we don't know about. Oh. But the only reason we even have a comment from the 70s is because someone asked about it being haunted

and someone made a comment saying, oh yeah, I've always heard about it being haunted. And it just happened to be then, yeah. Yeah, so it could have been 40 years ago, and just no one wrote it down until the 70s. We don't know. Right, because no one asked. Yeah, well if you asked, I hate that fucking line.

Well if you asked. So, in the 70s. In the 70s, fucking rude, sorry. It's so rude, yeah, yeah. You should have asked. What, no, that's not how this works I feel like that's kind of like a I don't know we could anyway what else is rude that people do okay 1970s hits and from 1818 17 it was sold from

the Kings. Right. The Postal Waiths moved in like a few years later, like in the 20s, 1820s. So now we're in the 1970s. This is 150 years later. They sell the building and it reopens as restaurants now. So now it's back to being tavern-y. Ooh, a tavern type, yeah. And one of the restaurants that opens up right away,

once it's sold from the family, is it's called the Post House Restaurant, which I feel like Post was supposed to be a nod to the Postal Wastes. I didn't even get it. Or because it was the town's first post office. Wait, what a fun double entendre though. I know.

And you wanna know another fun, can you say it? Cause I can't do it. I don't know. Oh, double entendre though. I know. And do you want to know another fun? Can you say it? Because I can't do it. I don't know. Oh double entendre. Yeah. You say it the way you say it gets me every time. It's just because my dad always says it's so annoying. Well so there's the word post that could be post office or postal wait. Uh-huh. Or it then be the the postal wait sold it to a man whose last name was Drinkwater. Drinkwater. And it became a tavern again. Oh my gosh. So I feel like it was like, that was a little interesting by the way, his first name was

Thirsty Little Rat. You got me there. But I thought that was interesting of like, oh, like someone named Drinkwater ends up making a restaurant. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like that was- that's more of a stretch, but it's still interesting Fate was a had a hand in a fate was like I know you you have to know what you're calling right from birth Yeah, also like if he's not the most hydrated man I've ever met I would be confused honestly He's probably not

Yeah, it'd be I don't know, this is character flaw, you know? You know in college he drank a lot of beer and he was like, my name should be Drink Beer, you know? Something stupid. Yeah, and everyone was like, that's not gonna catch on like you think it is. Yeah. So anyway, in the 70s, it's sold and reopened as restaurants.

First, the Post House restaurant. Then I think there were some other restaurants in between, but it ends up being a reimagined King's Tavern. So that's how it ends up becoming King's Tavern. Very full circle. Yeah. And that's the name that they go with too and everything. So unfortunately, this is how recent this building was still around. And the building's still around, but it's no longer in use because of COVID. No way.

And they couldn't recover after the COVID closures. Oh my god, in a hundred years they'll be telling the story and be like, and then in 2020, kids, does anyone remember what happened? The pandemic! Yeah. Boring! But up until its closure though, it was, the staff were very proud of its haunted past. They would happily tell stories to inquiring minds such as ours. And I said earlier, the first mention of ghosts was in the 70s. This was in an article of the Natchez Democrat. And it was in 1974,

one of the kids who grew up in the house, so I guess he was related to the Postal Waves, his name was Thomas Young, and he said, "'My grandmother has told me many times "'of the misty figure of the veiled woman in a cloak "'with head bowed and hands folded, "'which stood at the foot of her bed at night.'" Oh my God, Oh, okay.

How charming, grandma. And that was in 74, when I think he was talking about the past, which would have been much closer to the 30s. Right, so like the previous decades, presumably. Yeah, so I'm assuming here that like, it has been haunted since they moved those bodies out of the chimney.

Yeah. And then I think this also helped boost their spooky credibility in 1994 when a reporter stayed the night and actually saw Madeline or so she claims because she then wrote an article about it and it went out in the national inquirer, which could not be the most fact-based thing we've ever read. But I'm sure, I don't know about you, but I remember National Enquirer being a big fucking thing in the 90s and early 2000s. I feel like everyone had a copy of it.

I feel like that would have bolstered. Isn't that where Batboy was from? No, that was from World Weekly News. Oh yeah, you're right, right, right, right. National Enquirer, yeah, true. National Enquirer was like celebrity based. Right, true, true, true, yeah. Anyway, so I feel like that probably helped it

gain some traction in the paranormal world. I imagine. Or at least kept it alive. Yeah. And like I said, afterwards, after the renovations and the discovery of the bodies, that's when the spirits started coming through. Allegedly, there are several ghosts in this house, but Madeline is the most popular one of them all.

And again, we don't know how accurate that story is. It could be a totally made up thing. After they found a skeleton, they just kind of ran with a story that she had an affair is it is it for sure that The skeletons were actually found like that parts factual that's real Okay, and the dagger that there was done in the dagger a jeweled the jewels dagger. Hmm, and so We just we have to assume that the Madeline story is real. That's at least part of its lore now. Right. But the other ghosts, other than Madeline, who's the most popular, are of people here are baby crying

and people also see a redheaded man in a top hat. And we don't know who he is. I like I just it just threw me for a second because I'm like, he's in a top hat, but he has red hair. So like, is it like coming, is it long? Is it like sideburns? I don't know. I like to think shaggy.

Shaggy, yeah, probably. I like to think people actually see him take his long hair. He turns upside down and he sticks it all in the top hat and then throws his head back up and he doesn't even have hair all of a sudden. Actually, that's probably, that sounds like what they meant, yeah. So the ghost is walking down the hall

You see him lift his top hat and all of a sudden just a cascade of red curls fall right out, right? Yeah, that sounds like exactly how it went. I think a Maybelline commercial. Yes So what people experience here is they They see fleeting reflections and the mirrors they feel a warmth coming from unused beds, like someone just slept in it. They'll also see the bed. That's a new one. I know. Or like they'll even feel like the frame of the bed and it all feels really hot for some reason.

The bed will also like the blankets will move themselves. So it looks like someone was sleeping in it when no one was. People see Madeline or a woman in old fashioned clothing. Her face apparently has been seen looking at people in mirrors and windows. No. And after the staff has just mopped the floors, there are footprints in the puddles.

Oh, oh, that's creepy. That reminds me of Queen Mary a little bit by the pool. Yeah. And what I hate about that is that it implies that when there aren't puddles on the floor, they're walking everywhere and we just don't see it. That's so true. It's like you're just catching them now.

Yeah. And it's weird that like we don't catch them. Like they're not immune to water. Yeah, it's like, is that their only weakness? They're like a puddle. Oh no. Because then that makes me think if I caught them at the exact right moment, and I just threw a bucket of water in their direction,

would like a figure appear in the water? Imagine. Like why are your footprints not able to hide? Could the rest of you hide? Yeah, I don't totally get that. Hmm. It's one of those things that makes me feel like the ghost wants attention because you could in theory not do that. Yeah. Can you just stand there until the water dries? But.

Or that. Yeah. I feel like maybe it's because maybe it's like a, well, I was going to say residual, but then like, wouldn't it, would it still be leaving marks on that? I don't know. Oh yeah. Like if it's interfering with our world, then how much of that world is it attached to? Yes, exactly. Like if they can move water around with their feet,

even if it's just a residual haunting. Oh Lord, I have a headache already. I feel like if like, let's say they have, there's like a bowl of water or like pancake batter or something. I feel like if they could hit that and prove that there has been like a motion or like they could, a splash could happen. So like they could interact with liquids voluntarily in my mind, but to...

Yeah. But yeah, it doesn't feel like a residual haunting if they're walking through something where they're... Right. Like if their blueprint theory is that they walk in this path, but there happens to be a puddle in the way right now in this time and space. Why is it overlapping in a way where like they're in their worlds, but it's affecting our world? Right. Exactly. Like, should it just be that? I don't know. But then I guess like that you can say the same thing about like when they're walking down a hall and all of a sudden our door moves and it's because they're walking into our door.

That's true. So maybe like we're just in the way of them having a residual moment. I mean, I don't doubt we're in the way and it's some way or another. I don't even know where to begin. My brain has broken. Where, you need to take one of those edibles

that you love so much. I sure, I don't think I do. I think it would end up really bad for all of us if I did. I think I would be the most annoying person. Well, so they say that's how Madeline haunts the place, but she's also responsible for jars falling off of shelves, which like, wow, I hope that they are like shadow proof. Like that's Yeah.

Or filled with something like not super, not like olive juice or something, like something like jam that you can at least, no, that's sticky. Something with like, where it's just holding one big, like a kiwi. It's just a jar of a kiwi. Yeah.

It's a classic. We all have a kiwi jar at home. So we all get it. We all know what that's like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I also imagine just being a ghost and, like, you're not doing anything wrong. Or, like, you're living out the Blueprint theory.

You're just walking around your own fucking house. It's not my fault that there's jars in my way. They're gonna get knocked over. Your kiwis don't even need to be in a jar, moron. Yeah. But apparently she's responsible for it. So if jars are falling off the shelves there, they're blaming Madeline. But apparently she's responsible for it. So if jars are falling off the shelves there,

they're blaming Madeline. It might not even be her name. And like, it might not even be her story. There's just someone getting blamed constantly about it. Oh, no. Apparently, the doors of the entire building will open and close if you say her name. So I mean, she's at least responsive to the name

at this point, whether or not it was who she was. She's like, fine, I give in. I guess I'll answer to Madeline. It's like, I guess that's my nickname now. But yeah, the doors will open and close, or even worse is like doors that are really sticky and refuse to close will only close if you say her name. It's like she, which she does kind of want the attention.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, sounds like it. I Feel like my original theory was right. I think you're right, too The yeah those same doors they will only open and close if you like Mention her or ask her to open and close them faucets will turn on and off by themselves The chairs that are hung on the wall because you know, like in some like old general stores, Oh yeah, yeah. Chairs as decoration on the wall. I know it's not decoration, it's like for storage, but looks like decoration.

They will apparently rock by themselves on the wall. No. And, this one's weird. Water mysteriously pours from the ceilings without ever leaving any damage. And like any cause. Like they'll look through the pipes and nothing's wrong. Okay, so, but this is the second water thing, you know? That's kind of weird, isn't it?

Yeah. Interesting, because like water wasn't part of her story. Yeah, at least as far as we know. Although fire in a chimney maybe is an opposite day situation. I don't know. Maybe. Madeline Wayan.

So people have also witnessed shadow figures on the stairs and a woman staring at them from across the room. The man in the top hat has a much more sinister feeling to him and some have thought that maybe he's one of the Hart brothers still coming into the tavern. Oh Shit were they redheads? I Don't know someone look at their beheadings No, cuz I look I looked earlier when I googled them and they are all obviously like just drawings because

mmm, so I don't they're not in color I Don't know if they were redheads Let's pretend Okay, let's pretend so when the spirit this like this top hat Oh, but they sure didn't wear they did. It does not look like they were top hats. They were like Bandits clothes. Yeah. Yeah, like like furs and shit Okay, so maybe it wasn't. I don't know. It's whoever it is.

It's a bad ghost. And when this spirit is around, people have said they feel their chest tightening. They have been strangled. They felt irregular heart rates. They get shoved and people have gotten mild attachments slash mild possessions from this thing, where they start acting completely out of character. They're acting really discombobulated. They'll just wander around. Okay.

And like they have to... What? It's the word mild. Mild possession. Well, it's not like exorcism possession. Okay, okay, okay. But they are acting out of sorts. If someone, if I were possessed and someone said, oh, it's just a mild case, I would be like, why don't you go fuck yourself?

And then I'd be like, just kidding, that was a ghost talking. Let's say like a possession that is easily escapable and like does not require like the Catholic Church to get involved. Understood. Okay. Fair point. Fair point. Like you can cleanse it.

Yeah. Yeah. Or like leave the premises and it will like detach from you. Gotcha, okay. Okay. Thank you. So, people have seen this man upstairs, uh, like, by the steps. They have heard noises throughout the building that they associate with him.

Dishes have been thrown all across the kitchen and they say it's him. I guess, like, what's the difference between jars and dishes? Yeah, was gonna say wait so why are we blaming everything on her? I feel like jars I would blame it all on I think anything inconvenient I would blame on the bad guy. I agree. But I guess some people say that the jars it seems like they really are accidentally knocked off whereas the dishes are like picked up and slammed.

Okay. Yeah. She's just like a clumsy girl. I get it. I get it. But the dishes get slammed down like it's violent. Gotcha. He's like, this ain't this isn't me being clumsy. I do it on purpose. Okay. I do want attention. This is intentional. Gotcha. And so. Oh, people catch really startling EVPs.

They get like really clear ones. And I'll give some examples in a second, but cameras and equipment will malfunction and die until you leave the property and then it'll all like start back up and be at full battery. There's one guy who appears, oh, I think it might actually be the same guy, the same top hat guy. He appears in the, I think it might actually be the same guy, the same top hat guy.

He appears in the, in pictures that people take by the fireplace. And so people think maybe he's one of the bodies that was in the fireplace. Oh wait, there were two men, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, we don't know who they were. That is interesting.

Okay, that could make sense. So I wonder if he's actually, I mean, in today's world, he is not a good spirit, but I wonder if he's like just frustrated because he never got recognition. That's what I'm thinking. Like, no wonder he's pissed off. I'd be pissed off. Or maybe he's a victim of one of the Hart brothers, or maybe he was, I mean, we don't know. We just know that he's very mad and not good energy these days.

What the F? Women have. Oh, not women. People have also seen a woman in these pictures next to the fireplace, and a lot of people have associated it with being Madeline because she was found in the fireplace. But critics have also said, actually, realistically, it's probably that woman, Elizabeth Possewaith, because

her family lived here for like 150 years and she's the only confirmed death in the family. I see. Okay, I mean, that makes sense to me. Yeah, I also like, I feel like for a family whose energy has been here for so long, and there is at least one confirmed death, right, she has to be one of the people haunting this place. Like she has to be. She deserves to be, if she wants to at least. Yeah, but she should be like ruling the roost right now. She gets slot number one, in my opinion.

Yeah, and yeah, so nobody talks about maybe her being one of the ghosts, which is so wild because we don't even know if the Madeline story is real. We know that there are three skeletons. We just don't know the true stories to them. And we know that Elizabeth died here. So there's four confirmed in the baby. So that's five. That's at least two confirmed deaths in the building and three skeletons, which are assumed three more deaths. Yeah. But nobody mentions Elizabeth. Every time they see a woman, they think it's Madeline. But it's like, what about that fucking veiled woman

crossing her hands and shit like that? Yeah, nobody, nobody, no takers? And someone actually got a picture upstairs one time of a woman, like a spirit of a woman. And apparently it's pretty uncanny to Elizabeth Pusselweef. Ha ha. So I wouldn't be surprised if her whole family, if five generations of her family stayed there,

wouldn't she want to take care of the place? And she's so, she was so clumsy. That's one thing I know about her. Clumsiest bitch you'll ever meet. I think it really adds up. So. No, I'm the clumsiest bitch you'll ever meet. She's second.

She's second. Okay, that's fine. I'll be third. Okay. This is the, like I said, so people have seen a man by the fireplace in pictures. They think he's one of the skeletons, or sometimes they've even seen a woman next to the fireplace.

They assume it's Madeline, could be Elizabeth. Okay. Since it was her living room. Okay. Oh, but okay. So they, sorry, I know, I understand now I caught up, but so the, they think that the spirit might be Elizabeth, but not necessarily the body in the, you don't think that's Elizabeth. The skeleton has only ever been deemed as Madeline, whether or not we know how true that story is.

Okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Because I was like, wait, did we just miss a whole thing where they buried her in the fireplace? No, I think it's because the tavern area was once Elizabeth and her five generations of families living room. So of course she'd hang out in there by the fireplace. Yeah, right. Okay, makes sense. Anyway, there's a woman we don't know who it is, is the TLDR. Another weird thing about the fireplace though, because remember it didn't even work for a while, which is why they did renovations and there were skeletons in there.

I remember. After that, the fireplace still seems to be out of commission. It like just always had a problem and never really worked. And even though it doesn't work, it for some reason still emits heat as if it's working. Okay, that's so weird. And with the beds being hot to the touch, like that's so odd.

I'm wondering if there was a fire at some point that like never got recorded. Maybe. Or maybe something happened on the property during the war. Like maybe some- Or maybe. It's all those sun dried bricks. They're just like, we're still hot, maybe. Still as hot as the sun.

Soaking all that sun. Alarms go off nonstop in the building, so police are constantly being sent over. A news crew even tried to do an investigation here, and they said they saw flowing shadows. Somebody got poked by unseen hands, and they watched the room temperature drop on its own to 20 degrees,

which feels like the opposite of fire. Hmm, maybe back in the day, when it was a king's tavern, maybe it was like such a respite for people because it was warm and cozy. And so it still holds that like sort of, where a rest stop for you and your horse was on me. Your whores.

Your whore, you and your whores can stop here and have some brandy and be warm and we can still feel the warmth. I don't know, that seems like a stretch, but. You know what? Anything could be real at this point. And anything could not be real at this point. That's probably true.

Honestly, that's the deepest thing you've ever said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, by the way, Christine, oh my God, I met the most insufferable man. Why didn't you call me immediately? Just kidding, we are always meeting in several moments. Okay, go on. He was, I went to a, I went to a few bars in,

where were we just, Providence? Yeah. It was either Providence or, I think it was Providence. I went to a few bars. By the way, if anyone wants to know what my favorite one was, if you happen to be around there, it was Augie's Trailer Park. It was incredible.

I also went to one called Dead Beats, which is apparently horror themed with love. Zero out of 10. Really? One out of 10 because they served Ecto Cooler, like the green Ghostbusters high C drink. They had their own version of Ecto Cooler and they had like Slimer from the Ghostbusters sitting on. So that was the only cool thing.

Everything else, not so great. Oh, that was a good part you're saying. That was kind of the only good part. I'm sorry, that's a bummer. I really wanted it to be more than it was. It was really just like a dark dive bar. It was cool, but it was not what I wanted. If you're going to promote yourself as a horror

theme bar, you got to really commit. Commit. You're right. OK. Augie's trailer park. Great. But the one I want to talk about is it was called Justine's. And it looks even Justine's. And it looks even when it's open at night, it looks like it's closed. It looks like a closed business on the side of the street. I'm already anxious.

Okay. And it was, it's a lingerie store. So when you look through the window, it looks like a clothes lingerie with like the old mannequin wearing something. And the door is just fucking open. You just walk in and like there's locked, unlocked. And there's no people in there. And it just looks like one tiny little room

that sells lingerie and you open the door, but behind what looks like the wall, if you're looking in, in the window, it looks like there's a black wall. It's actually a curtain. You pull back the curtain and it's like a speakeasy. Ooh boy. There might have been someone working there

who was just a little too much for me. Oh, bummer. Yeah, the vibes, excellent tante. Except this one guy was really, like you could tell I think he was like a philosophy or a cinema major in college. And I think he thought everything he said was moving. Oh no, oh no.

I felt trapped. I was like, I can't get away. I just sat down. What did he say? He was just saying things like, like he's a, he was saying, cause he's a bartender, he was like, we create, we inspire, we, we write the narrative for the night and we, we, all right. Yeah.

I was like, I'm sure, I'm sure that's a lovely take, but I came here alone for a reason. I didn't want to talk to anybody. So why are you talking to me? And it was, it's one thing like if he like made small talk for a second But he was very interested in not going away and I was like I can't he was very interested in not going away It was so clear I was like and I was trapped I was like I was there's nothing I can do I can't get out of here. I have to wait to pay my tab and everything. Oh my God. I Christ, he just kept going. And he'd be like, he'd be like, so what moves you today? What moves you? No, come on. But you know, and like the thing that sucks is like self-fulfilling prophecy. He clearly

wanted me to talk about him later and I am so So like I'm giving him what he wanted, I hate that. But like you know he thought on the ride home I was just so beside myself overwhelmed with how incredible his opinion was. And he really- I just don't understand. Who is like telling this person, you know? It's like, where did you get this idea?

I think he was like some, he must have been some sort of tortured artist who like just had poetry in his soul and didn't know how to get it out. And like he just had so much to say and no one was willing to listen. And I was one of those people. Oh, I mean, how when maybe maybe you or the maybe you finally got the message across. I just know I was trying so hard. I was being too nice.

I could tell that he really just wanted somebody to talk to him. You're trying to validate him. That's very thoughtful of you to be fair. I was like, maybe this guy's just like really lonely. He's got like big opinions. He really wants to just like, he wants to be a part of somebody's nights. Like I get it. That's lovely.

But like, man, I just wanted to sit here and play Sudoku while I drank a mocktail. Like that was all I wanted. God, like that's all we want, right? Like all of us except with not the mocktail. I think he saw the game on my phone as an invitation of like, oh, well you're not talking to me. No, no, no, no, no, yeah. If I'm playing a game on my phone, especially Bingo,

it's timed, like don't talk to me. My neighbor said hi to me and I was walking to you and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm doing something really important. I was literally looking for 070. Like that's what I was doing, but it was so important. So do not interrupt. It really was like, it was out of control.

Anyway. What the hell is wrong with people? He meant very well. I don't mean to like poo poo on him in a way where like, he was not a good person. He was just, him and I were not meant to be. It's just not compatible. I get it. I get it. Yeah, it was just he and somebody else

who really needs a pep talk are going to get along great. But I wanted to be left alone totally. You were pepped enough. Yeah, I get it. I do. Anyway, I don't know how we got there, but I will, this is the last chunk of things I have to say, is that the King's Tavern obviously is very haunted. It has been featured on many ghost hunting shows. I knew it, I knew this was gonna happen, I knew it, I knew it.

Includes a little something you call Adventures Do Ghost. Adventures Do Ghost. On se voit. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, It really is true. Sometimes I genuinely get freaked out. Em and I will be the first to admit it. Like sometimes we're like, oh dear, this got creepier than I expected. And I don't have, I don't have any evidence of this, but I feel like a lot of times on his show, it might be cheated in some way. What?

But there are sometimes, Sorry, did that sound convincing? But there are times where like, you go to enough spooky places, something spooky is gonna happen. You can kind of see, oh, geez, this is a real frightening moment for them and now for me. This was a good one. If you're gonna watch an episode of Ghost Adventures,

this was a good one. That's great. I honestly, I'm gonna remember that. I will say it was weirdly dagger heavy because I guess Zach Bagans decided, or, and by Zach Bagans, I mean the producers or whatever, but he has a producer on the show. So he, yeah, I would argue he's probably the main producer, but yeah. Yeah. A lot of times in reality TV, like if you're wondering why people are doing something,

it's not up to them. Like the producer said, this is what we've decided is happening. You have to do these beats in the script. Right. But since he's a producer, he got to be in charge of the details. And we know him enough to know like, he probably won't, at least in the later seasons,

I doubt he would do something that he like, does not want to do. And this was season eight. He was in his prime time producing. So. Yeah, okay, okay. Gotcha. And I think he heard the story about Madeline being stabbed with a dagger and a skeleton

and a dagger being found in the chimney. And fun fact, the dagger to this day is missing, or like, is like, somewhat missing. It's hard to come by, I guess. And so he made this whole episode, like, at least the first half, like, we are gonna find the dagger. Okay. Like, it's national treasure. If they find the dagger, then we know it's not,

this is fake, because like, yeah, right. So fun fact, he ends up tracking down someone who's a relative of the owner of the dagger. We never see the dagger, at best we get this relative who has seen the dagger giving a description of it. That's the best we get. All right. That story leads to nothing.

I just feel like, you know, he wanted that fucking dagger for his museum, right? Like is that- I know he had a pocket full of thousands of dollars ready to hand it over. I know he did. That has to be it, yeah. Anyway, so the first half of it, you can probably honestly just skip.

It was just him on a quest for the dagger and he didn't find it. Aw, man. But I will say the ghost hunting part, fucking wild. So okay, okay. He interviews other investigators that have already been to the tavern and they warned that like something does like weirdly attached to people. They've been attached to it. They say this is where I thought like the research was interesting.

One of those investigators said that they got an EVP of the name Mason coming through and Mason was one of their kids. And so they were very freaked out by that. But I will say in my own research, Mason was the name of like one of the guys that hung out with the Hart brothers. So I don't know if like, I mean, like it's creepy either way but I think he took it as like a personal oh they're threatening my kid versus like maybe the Hart brothers were just like okay okay okay so it's like it's like a current

person but it's also a historic it could be just referencing the yeah like Mason was one of the names of somebody that they knew. Gotcha. Okay. So I don't know if it was meant to be all that personal. It could have been. I don't know. Anyway, so immediately Zach Baggins, he goes in alone, he asks who's killed there and the spirit box says, Madeline. So that's a good start. It's a good start. Then Nick says, were you murdered here?

And the Spirit Box gets a female voice very clearly saying yes. Whoa! Sorry, I felt like people wouldn't really get it until I made the sound effects that I'm sure accompany that evidence. Well super creepy. I guess they had like a bunch of duveteen or like some sort of sound canceling light blocking fabric on the windows. And weirdly, they did get kind of it on camera, you could see the reflection of it happening. But the window covers were completely ripped off

of one of the windows, even though they were all secured the same way and the others were really stuck on there. It had clearly been torn down and you can hear it and see it happening and it's very creepy. Honestly, yes, it could have just dropped, but it is weird that the other three windows were perfectly secure.

There are a lot of sounds in the basement. There was clear EVPs of a baby's voice or like a baby kind of like gooing, goo goo gaga. their three windows were perfectly secure. There are a lot of sounds in the basement. There was clear EVPs of a baby's voice or like a baby kind of like gooing, goo goo gaga. And then you can hear a woman saying, I can say your names. And then you can hear one to say- Hey, you wanna see a trick?

And then you hear a woman say, we'll get ya. Ooh, okay, wait, what's that line? I was trying to think of it the other day. What's the line that you started saying where you were like, and for my next trick, yeah. For my next trick. And for my final act, and for my next trick. For my next trick, I can say all your names.

And for my final trick, I'm gonna get ya. You know what's so weird is I only say that alone. I think even I know that's too far. I love it, it's cute. Oh good, thank you. I was making cereal It's cute. Oh good. Thank you. I was making Cereal of making cereal I was pouring myself a bowl of cereal and when I went for the milk I said out loud Oh for my next act

So ridiculous for no reason to nobody just like oh for my for my final act. I'm gonna get the milk I love it though. I'm really about it. It gets me going I love it though. I'm really about it. It gets me going Tickles the brain. So anyway, this is where it gets super creepy. So the voices have said we'll get you Nick starts acting so fucking weird and like not that I know him personally, but you can tell something's off like and of all the people I feel like Nick's the least like He is under Zach's thumb, you know, we don't to to be fair, we don't know any more information than the rest of the public, but there was like some weird thing that happened a few months ago.

It was like a slight expose that was about Zach Bagans that kind of basically just elucidated some traits of Zach's that like we all kind of knew already. But like, but Nick was like, I think ready to say something fucking significant about Zach. Well, he released, he released he released his statement, but it was just like... Oh, he did? Yeah, but it was just kind of like... Nothing, no. It was like, oh, yeah, that's shitty, but we kind of sort of knew that.

I guess now it's just confirmed. He kicked Nick off of his show and then basically told the travel channel they were never allowed to hire him again Yeah, they said like Zach was like I am your whole channel. So like you can't like you can't hire Nick for any other project. So That's kind of what the expose was and everyone was kind of like well, it's not surprising, you know Yeah, like we're not shocked by this information Well, yeah, but because of that, usually in my brain, I feel like Nick

isn't as maybe willing to cheat the system as other people are. Exactly, he's the least under Zach's kind of command, I think, is what I perceive. That's what I think about it. But he starts acting really fucking great on camera. He's acting like there's something attached to him, like he's staring at something that isn't there. He's backing up into a wall, like something's coming at him.

He starts wandering off when they tell him, like, hey, sit still. He's like it's like he's not there and he'll just stand up and walk away. Of course, this is the moment where Zach says, and I quote, I want Nick to do another spirit box session so that way we can see Of course, this is the moment where Zach says, and I quote, I want Nick to do another spirit box session so that way we can see how much deeper this possible attachment can go with him. Of course he says that. Oh, see, this is so fucked.

Yeah, no wonder this guy like wrote an expose. Jesus. So Nick starts acting even weirder. Like he's deep, lost in the sauce. I thought this was a mild possession and now I feel like I've been misled. He ends up being fine. At the time it was, if this happened to you, we would not be there anymore.

Okay, got it. Good to know. Thank you. Maybe not mild, but medium heat, if you know what I'm saying. Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I got you. If this happened to you, I would grab you by the cuff and I would drag you out by the fucking ankle.

I'd be like, we're getting out of here. I'd be like, cut it out, we're leaving. I'd be like, you can stay, I'm fucking gone. Like, you're not, I'm out of here. Do you want a ride back to the hotel or not? No, no, I'm gonna stay here. Eva's already in the car, it's all warmed up, it's getting toasty in there.

She's got her foot ready, pedaled to the metal. Christine, get the fuck in the car. I'll see you later. If you said no, I'm good, that's how I know it's time to actually grab you by the fucking collar and be like, we have to leave. Now we're in trouble. So, Nick starts acting even weirder.

He's like walking weirdly in like slow motion. Wow. It feels like he's walking around like he has not actually been in a body recently and he's relearning how to walk. Okay, that's the creepiest thing you could have said, but great. Aaron is upstairs by himself and he uses the ovulus

and the ovulus says out loud, travel outside. Which sounds like take a fucking walk, get out of here. Take a hike, baby. Baby. It says travel outside. Nick, who was told by Zach to not leave his room and to not get up or anything. Don't leave your room.

He stands up and wanders off by himself and finds Aaron upstairs and he's like slowly hobbling towards Aaron as Aaron gets this travel outside. Stop. Nick did not hear the ovulus but as he walks in he says you need to leave the room. What the fuck? I don't like that. Usually those kind of things don't get me because I'm like, oh, they're just faking it. But somehow this is really creepy. Even not even watching it.

They play multiple cameras at the same time to show that like Nick was not. So he couldn't hear it at all. He didn't hear it. And he comes in and he goes, you need to leave the room. And as Aaron starts walking, he freaks out, like freaks out like something grabbed him. And you hear Nick laughing off camera.

And at the same time, their recorders later got an EVP of other laughter. So it's almost like two, two laughter's at the exact same time. I don't like that. Which then I'm like, is it a laughter? Is it front? Was it the same thing laughing in two bodies? Right, is it Nick's possessor laughing? Yeah, or is it like a different spirit?

Yeah, that's a good question. So he freaks out like something grabbed him. You hear two sets of laughter, and Erin says, something just grabbed my back. And Nick from the other side of the room says, I know, that's why I came to get you, because they're about to attack you. Ooh.

But I think it's hilarious, so. And then he, but like, he's obviously talking like in a trance and like for him to even have no, like he laughed as if like, ha ha, like that's what I saw coming. Then he says to Erin, I'm telling you, they were coming to get you. I just want to give you a warning.

So like part of him is like, I want to warn you, but part of me. That's like, it's like he's sharing two minds in the same body. And like Nick is trying to warn him, but this thing is like, I know what's coming. He's like, watch this. It'll be hilarious. So Nick then just like immediately goes into like a full trance and walks down towards Zach, doesn't even say anything to him, walks completely past him, even though the spirit box is going off and usually Nick would react to that. Nick just walks right past him, unbothered, walks to the bathroom and stares into the mirror until somebody dragged him out. Just stared in the mirror.

Ehhhhhh! In the mirror where people see them! Yeah. Uh, Billy then goes in Nick's place, they say like, Nick, you gotta get out of there, Billy's going in for you. Immediately Billy starts acting the exact same way. Immediately. Oh, shit. Not responding to people, wandering in slow motion.

He starts- Oh, this thing is like fucking with them. Oh, totally fucking with them. He sits on the stairs and starts humming at the same time that weird noises start happening upstairs. And then he gets heart palpitations, his eyes start watering, his hands go numb, and he loses track of time and doesn't even remember being near the stairs. And I don't like that. I like this is when I'm like, I don't think I want to visit a

place like this. As they left, because eventually they end up obviously leaving and everyone's fine later, but as they left, apparently they drove past a house completely on fire. And then hundreds of crows gathered in the road and refused to let them drive any further. What the fuck? And Nick got a really weird text from a random number. And it had a bunch of random words in the text that sounded all jarbled, like didn't make sense. But one of the words was Madeline.

No! Okay, I'm watching this later. I don't give a shit. What season and episode is it? It's season eight. And I don't know what the episode is because every single time it turns into... I feel like every platform has a different episode number.

Yeah, so King's Tavern, that's what it's called. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, and that is King's Tavern. That was a doozy because... You can't usually make me like... Give me Goose Kim with just a retelling of Ghost Adventures, but I think you did, and that's pretty impressive. I recommend that episode. And of course, I watched it at three in the morning, so I was like, oh, god damn did. And that's pretty impressive. I recommend that episode.

And of course, I watched it at three in the morning. So I was like, oh, god damn it. But that was a good one. Wait, maybe that's the pattern. You woke up saying it's going to be a good day. Uh oh. I was like, anything's going to be better than that. Maybe that's it. Maybe you set the bar real low.

I do wonder, Christine, if we ever go ghost hunting, we have to have like a code word or something about like if For what something happens like that to one of us or Eva. What do we do? What do you mean? Like a like a possession? yeah, like if one of us gets attached and starts acting weird and like muttering and humming and Who should have the code word then like the person who's possessed be like this isn't me or like the like maybe we say maybe we have a code word and like word then? Like the person who's possessed be like, this isn't me or like the... Like maybe we say, maybe we have a code word and like I'll ask if like, like let's say you're the possessed one. I'll be like, are you okay? Are you there? What's the code word? Ah, and if I don't know it.

Yeah, but then maybe like, what if they're already, I mean, they're inside your body. Maybe they do know the code word. Maybe I hit it really far into my brain. Good luck finding it. Yeah, I don't know. I do wonder if, I mean, with our ghost hunting, if we ever come into something like that. I just know my dumb ass would be like, should I forget the code word? And you're going to be like, she's possessed. I'm like, no, I literally just forgot the code word.

Can I check my phone? I really do think if we ever go to a place that suggests that that could happen, we just bring, I'm not kidding, really a spray bottle of holy water and just like a cat doing something wrong, just spritz each other in the face. Just be like, fucking wake up, wake up. And that way we can spray it around if we think there's a ghost

and maybe reveal them like Scooby-Doo style. Oh yeah, and then all of a sudden their body will form like Madeleine in their footprints. Exactly. Okay, perfect. So I'll make, what's the password? Is it postal post-a-wait or is it, um, it cannot possibly be postal. No, I'm never going to remember that. What's a good one.

What's one from this episode that we'll, oh, what about corny Sean? Well, I feel like, hmm. What about double entendre? I can't say that. That's a hard one. Yeah. What about, do we say anything else today? Nope. Sun-dried tomatoes.

Sun-dried tomatoes. There you go. Okay. You said postal service like the band. That M's not going to remember that one. But good shout out though. It's a good band. It's a good band. It's a good band.

Okay. Sundried Tomatoes is the password. Sundried Tomatoes. Got it. I'm going to tell you a story today. This is the tragic murder of Seth Jackson. Okay. And the name Seth in this case is spelled S-E-A-T-H, but it is pronounced like Seth.

Okay. So his name is Seth Tyler Jackson. He was born and raised in Florida. And as far as we know, he was a very kindhearted child who loved animals, loved making people laugh, and one day dreamed of competing in the ultimate fighting Championship, UFC, as a mixed martial artist. His parents, Sonja and Scott, raised him in a town called Summerfield alongside his two older brothers Scott Jr. and Steven. Now, this takes place in 2011 and Summerfield was usually a quiet rural area surrounded by farmland with a nearby retirement community. And there, although crime rates in general were low, there were definitely some drug issues in town and there were occasionally some murders. So not like a super tranquil,

tranquil, peaceful small town. There were definitely some, some bigger issues. So when he was 15, Seth still ran with his childhood friend group from the area. He had quite a few good friends. He was pretty popular. His family was really close and he spent a lot of time four-wheeling, which I imagine is what you do in rural Florida

and in rural most of America. Did you ever go four-wheeling? I sure did. Even though I'm a German gal, I'm also an Ohio gal, you know? So had plenty of four wheeling days. Yeah. Did you ever go mudding? I did.

Only like twice though, cause I was like, I don't think this is for me. I liked it in practice, but I was like, whew, this is dangerous. That's it. It's kind of like, cool, I did it a couple of times. I think that's enough. I think I'm done.

In college, I hung out with a few stereotypical redneck guys, and they loved mudding. And they loved doing pretty much whatever could get you closest to death. And I was like, OK, I think I'm out. I think I'm out. At a certain point, it's like, this is not recreational. This is just defying death. Hopefully. So that's kind of what he did. He had that kind of redneck upbringing.

One of his friends was 15 year old Amber Wright. And she was a girl that Seth had actually began dating on and off in 2011. And when I say on and off, I mean, they were incredibly toxic. Like everybody who knew this couple was like, they were a mess. It was like one of those cliche, like, toxic, but you can't get away from each other type thing. Oh, you and I know that too well, don't we? Unfortunately. Oh, you and I know that too well, don't we? Unfortunately. Since you and I are that way together. No.

The two of them were not good for each other. Okay, that's like understatement of the century. Wildly, a lot of the posts, so this is 2011, so Facebook is huge. And a lot of the posts they would, so they'd publicly argue on each other's Facebook walls. I love it. I mean, so bad. It's so bad. So messy. It was so messy.

Like one of the YouTubers I watched who covered this, he posted like some screen grabs of like some of the comments and I'll be honest, like some of it was like really upsetting. Like I thought, oh, this is just gonna be like kind of drama. Yeah, but then I saw, which like also nobody else seemed to mention. And I'm like, did people just kind of brush this under the, sweep this under the rug?

Maybe, but there were posts that he was writing about like saying the N word and saying like, people need to go back, like some really extremely racist shit. I was like, stuff I'm not even gonna pretend to repeat here. And I was like, but that was kind of lower down like in the screen grab and like they were focusing on the top part of, and I was like,

does anyone see that comment? Like that, what? Nobody's gonna mention that? It was like really bad. So, oh, by the way, the channel I watched was Beyond Evil. He did a really good, good coverage of this case. But yeah, so they were posting on each other's walls, like arguing, bickering, name calling, he was calling her a slut. And she was saying like, you know, I mean, it just was like real. And that was like the least of it. It was very extreme. It was, they were

accusing each other of cheating and all this nonsense. So Seth's parents, for obvious reasons, did not like him seeing Amber because both of them were not having a good time. So yeah, it was just like, this isn't good for either of you. So it was probably a bit of a relief when they seemed to finally break it off for good, and Amber got a new boyfriend. His name was Mike Bargo. He was 18. And even though she had found a new guy, Seth was still kind of in the periphery.

Like, she wanted to kind of keep the drama going, right? Like, she wouldn't just let it die out. Like, they were continuing to fight on Facebook and now she had this new boyfriend and he was heartbroken and it just got even messier than it was before. So Amber began telling Mike, her new boyfriend, about Seth saying he physically and emotionally abused her. According to people who knew Seth,

knew their relationship very well, these were just lies. She was kind of, whether they were like, okay, most people claim these are lies. So I can't say one way or another, right? But basically it became pretty clear that she was just trying to rile her boyfriend up, her current boyfriend up about Seth and like, oh, wow, stoke the fire.

Messy, messy, messy, messy. She's trying to stoke the fire there. And that's what she did. According to those who knew and loved Seth, he never would have laid a hand on her physically or emotionally. Although some of these wall posts, I was like, that's pretty damaging stuff.

It feels damning whether or not you would, it doesn't help. Yeah, it feels like both of them were really toxic with one another, so I don't know where that line was. But either way, Amber seemed to sort of enjoy pitting Seth and Mike against each other, like her ex-boyfriend and her new boy. And she like heats up on the jealousy.

She's like, she wants them to claim her. Right, right, it's like fighting up on the jealousy. She's like, she wants them to claim her. Right, right. It's like fighting over her, exactly. So soon there was this very, very outright animosity between both Seth and Mike. Mike allegedly began making threats against Seth, claiming he would shoot him, claiming he would burn his house down.

Yeah, people who knew Mike would later report that he did actually carry a gun on him often. So this is like a real threat. This isn't just like saying dumb shit. It's like an actual alarming threat. Seth and Mike even got into several brawls, like full on fistfights. And apparently Seth won, which of course then made Mike even more pissed off like this guy had besteded him and now he felt even more like he had to, you know, reclaim his honor basically. Yeah.

And so Seth's mother was later commented that once, she overheard Mike confronting Seth in front of their house and say, I have a bullet with your name on it to her son. And she was like, oh my God, you better get out of this whole group. She was like very anxious for him, but just hope that like because he and Amber were broken up that maybe like over time, this would just die down.

You know, we've covered this before, but like threats of violence and stalking and stuff, it does not usually get very far if you go to the police because you know, it's a terrible like catch far if you go to the police because, you know, it's a terrible like catch-22 of something has to happen first, you know, and it's like, well, then it's too late. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was kind of one of those,

basically parents stuck between a rock and a hard place. They don't know what to do about this. Then one day Seth disappeared. what to do about this. Then one day Seth disappeared. Seth's mom knew something was wrong because he always called if he was going to be late or wasn't coming home. So she pretty quickly called the police to report Seth missing in early April of 2011. She had last heard from him the night before while texting with him and he had stopped responding and then she never heard from him again. So at first police were like there's no way this is foul play, he's just a runaway you know and like the crowd he runs with I'm sure that he'll be back or he's fine he's just decided to run off somewhere. But his mom Sonia knew something must

have happened to him and that the police were looking in the wrong direction. So while they were looking into the runaway aspect of it, she decided she was going to try to track down Seth herself. So of course, first thing she did was reach out to his friends, hoping one of them had seen or heard from him. And one of the teenagers she texted was of course, Amber Wright, his ex-girlfriend. Which I get she was like desperate and was like, maybe, maybe they know. Have you seen him? Yeah. Because well, cause he was so tied up in like her drama and all that, that like, you know, I mean, it could be very well possible that she had heard from him.

And so before, before he had disappeared, Seth had actually told Sonia that he planned to meet up with Amber that night. So as far as Sonja knew, they had seen each other. So she's like, Amber, have you seen him? And Amber said, yes, I have. I saw Seth last night and I was with our mutual friend, 18 year old Charlie Ely. And so Sonja was like, okay, good.

So at least we have like a pinpoint. He was with you last night, at least we know that. So she gets in touch with the police and they locate Amber and Charlie saying, okay, you said you saw him last night. Can you give us a little bit of information on Seth's whereabouts? What kind of place he was in?

And they told the police, yeah, we spent a little time with Seth. And then we dropped him off about a quarter mile down the road from Amber's house at an intersection near a mobile home community because Seth was talking on the phone with his mom and was in some disagreement and stormed off and left them behind.

And Sonja was like, nope, that didn't happen. That seems like a stupid excuse since the mom can literally verify whether or not she was having an argument on the phone with her own son. But they said, yeah, he was on the phone. He was in a fight with his mom, so he walked away. And Sonja was like, nope, that did not happen. So two days after Seth's disappearance,

Amber's mom, Mrs. Wright, called the police with a shocking revelation. Her son, 16 year old Kyle Hooper, had seen a news report about Seth being missing on TV and told his mom, I saw him get murdered. Whoa. and told his mom, I saw him get murdered. Oh, whoa. And so she, thank God, just immediately called the police and said, hey, my son says that he,

and this is Amber's brother. So she goes, my son said that he witnessed Seth's murder. And so of course they're like, bring him in right away. So police rushed to the right home, W right home, uh, to get the story. They bring Kyle into the sheriff's office. And he was very anxious, visibly so. And detectives described him as disturbed by what he had witnessed for obvious reasons. And when they asked him,

Kyle told detectives that Mike Bargo, Amber's new boyfriend, had attacked Seth. And after a little bit of pressing, he also admitted to participating in the attack, just a little bit. Kyle did? He sure did. And... Wow, okay.

Yes, the tables are turning a bit. And so he admits that he was actually a little more involved than he originally claimed. He said he actually had hit Seth over the head with a bit. And so he admits that he was actually a little more involved than he originally claimed. He said he actually had hit Seth over the head with a stick. But yeah. And so they're like, well, that's not good. And he goes, yeah, yeah, but it was Mike

who actually shot Seth, not me. And so now they're, sorry, go ahead. Is this a... Maybe you'll tell me later, but is this a situation where if Kyle didn't say anything, they would have all gotten away with it? Because it sounds like out of guilt, he just kind of came out of him. I definitely think he just couldn't stand it. I don't think they would have gotten away with it very long.

Okay. Like, you'll see why. But I think the fact that he folded so quickly is the only reason that like everything went so fast. Because I feel like you're totally right. If he hadn't, it probably would have been a lot more investigating. But he basically just handed them the answers on a platter.

But to even admit that he was involved, it's like, oh my God, like you really must have been, like the guilt must have been in your life. Right, and it's like a couple of days later. It's not like he's been living with it for months, you know, like he really, and according to quite a few sources, he was the only one who really felt very guilty about this,

like who lived with the remorse of it. And so that's probably why he like immediately broke down and gave them everything they wanted to know. So he says, well, yeah, I hit him with a stick, but Mike's the one who actually fatally shot him and they were like, okay, this feels like we're missing a lot of pieces here. Like you're giving us a story, there's a lot of gaps and things weren't totally making sense. So investigators were like, you got to tell us the whole truth. We're going to find out one way or another.

So you better spit it out right here right now. And there's actually footage of Kyle's mom in the interrogation room and she is so overwhelmed. And she's literally watching her son describe a murder that he admitted to being part of, which must just be like, she didn't think that was where this was going, right? So suddenly her phone rings, she checks her phone, she goes, I need to step out of the room.

And they said, do you have our permission? Do you have, I'm sorry, do we have your permission to continue questioning your son? Because you're the obviously legal guardian and he's 16. And she gives the detectives explicit permission to continue questioning her son. So she leaves the room and after a bit more pressing by the police, Kyle unravels and tells the entire story start to finish. He said he was involved in a plot to quote, jump Seth along with his sister Amber and AKA Seth's ex-girlfriend, her boyfriend, Mike Bargo and their other friends,

Justin Roach Soto and Charlie Ely. So yeah, a whole group. Now, Mike Bardo, the boyfriend, was supposedly the ringleader who orchestrated the attack. And Kyle said that he only participated in the attack because he had heard that Seth had previously beaten Amber on multiple occasions, was like very abusive toward her. And it was his sister. So he felt defensive and he thought, well, I guess I guess he deserves it if if that's how he's treating his sister. So he felt defensive and he thought, well, I guess, I guess he deserves it if, if that's how he's treating his sister. And so he's all, he also was told that Seth threatened

to burn his house down, like burn his and Amber's house down, even though we already know that we know now that Mike was the one threatening that to Seth, not the other way around, but they were trying to rile him up basically saying like, he wants to burn our house down. He beat me and does it? Like they're just trying to, trying to get them on their side. Yeah. Yes. Yes. They're trying to goad him into this. And so when Mike asked Kyle to participate, to defend his sister, he agreed. And he said he did not expect Mike to actually kill Seth. Uh, Kyle, Kyle claimed to be uninvolved in disposing of Seth, Seth's remains.

But he said Mike had mentioned a quarry by a nearby sporting goods store. So soon the detective brought in and interviewed all the other people that Kyle had implicated. And Charlie Ely told investigators that she and Amber met up with Seth at a street corner under false pretenses that Amber had texted him that she wanted to meet up and work things out between them. So basically she was like luring him in.

And this is the night that Seth's mom like knew that they were gonna meet up. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yep, exactly. So basically Seth had told his mom, hey, I'm meeting up with Amber tonight, just FYI. And then she never heard from him again.

So it's looking bad. So she continued, Charlie. Oh, by the way, Charlie is a girl, identifies a girl. So Charlie told police that Amber had texted Seth that she had talked to Charlie about everything and was bringing Charlie along as emotional support, but she wanted to meet up with him and go over everything. And that way the idea was when Seth arrived and saw Charlie and Amber that he

wasn't like suspicious why there was another person there. She's like, she's here for moral support. And she also typed, but don't tell anyone what's going on because I wanna make sure we can work things out before anyone knows, don't sweat it. But Seth was a little, yeah. So she basically said like, don't say where you're going. But Seth, he knew a little better.

He suspected something was going on. He actually texted Amber, Amber, if you have me jumped, I will never give you the time of day. So if I get jumped, I say goodbye, all right? So basically he was like, if this is like some plot to beat me up, like we're done, I'm not speaking to you anymore.

But Amber was like, no, no, I just wanna work things out. You know, I still care about you. And so he, the heartbroken teen, met up with her. So together, Amber and Charlie lured Seth back to Charlie's house where the attack took place. And back at Charlie's house, Kyle, Roach, and Mike were all lying in wait for Seth to arrive. Charlie insisted to police that she and Amber went into a bedroom during the attack and that they hid there during the attack so they weren't really part of it. She said that Amber and Seth were talking in the house when Kyle came out of nowhere to hit Seth. And she said Seth looked woozy and Kyle yelled, get the fuck out.

At which point she and Amber ran for the bedroom. They allegedly heard gunshots and spent and Amber ran for the bedroom. They allegedly heard gunshots and spent the whole night in the bedroom. And then when they woke up, they allegedly, according to their own story, smelled bleach in the house and noticed it had been cleaned up, but knew nothing about Seth's fate or whereabouts.

Okay, likely sweet. That's not even a good coverup story. It's like- It's not. So you weren't worried after you heard gunshots about someone that you claimed to love? Exactly, you just thought like, mm, I'm sure everything's fine. He must have skedaddled.

It smells like bleach in here. Must be cleaning up. Yeah, bizarre-o. So according to her, according to Charlie, Mike did come into the bedroom and wave the revolver around while he told the women he would kill them too if they said anything about the attack, which is why they didn't come forward.

Investigators said they felt she was minimizing her involvement in the attack, but they needed more details to prove it. So next, of course, they bring in Amber. Now Amber's telling basically the same story. She's like, Charlie led me to a bedroom when the attack began. She said, I was so distraught during the attack that I was crying. I almost threw up. Then I heard gunshots. And she said, we'd closed ourselves off in this bedroom, shut the door.

Here's the issue. They got to the house, discovered the bedroom did not have a door. So there is no possible way that her story of locking herself in the bedroom or closing, closing herself off in the bedroom, it just wasn't going to happen. And this is like a mobile home. It's not like a big, huge house, right? Like they're in the same vicinity. So if there's a room without a door, like they're in the action. Yes. So, yeah, yeah. So they're not like, you know, often some distant wing of the house, like they're, they're right there.

And so they would have had basically a full view of the entire attack. So at a certain point they're lying. The young men who were interviewed or interrogated also told investigators that Charlie and Amber were very much involved and actually helped them clean up the scene after Seth was killed. Amber finally admitted, so she goes, oh, I woke up and smelled bleach.

Well, pretty soon she admits, no, actually, I was the one who got the bleach and started scrubbing. I was the one covered in bleach. Yeah, literally. I'm the reason the place smelled like bleach. Oops, I forgot to mention that. She then like kind of switched tactics and started sort of tearfully telling the lead detective that Seth had hurt her.

She claimed he hit her, lied to her about giving her an STD to upset her, took all her friends, so none of them would talk to her anymore. And when detective asked, is that why you participated in this attack? Like, because you were mad at Seth, she said she actually, quote, didn't have a reason for her involvement.

That's sick. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, like, no answer was gonna be a good answer,. That's sick. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, like no answer was going to be a good answer, but that's right. But at least commit to your fake story or whatever. I don't know. It's just like, oh, okay. She's not even doesn't even have a fake reason why she participated in it.

So much clear. You just were bored. That's the reason. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so next they bring in Mike, right? The alleged ringleader of this whole thing. And he is not looking good. He has like cuts on his face.

He has scratches on his hands. We don't know if those are defensive wounds from Seth, but that's what it looks like that maybe someone was fighting him back and he bruises and cuts and scrapes, but he refused to discuss the marks. Finally, investigators interview Roach who was the oldest of the group. He was 20. And you know, he,

it's kind of confusing in some of the sources because they mentioned these kids as a group of teenagers or group of kids, but he's obviously an adult technically, but basically he's just getting lumped in as like one of the teens. He tried to deny his involvement, but investigators explained to him that he was, it's too late, you're already fully implicated, everyone else mentioned your name, but nice try. So he immediately gave up.

He told investigators during the interview, I just wanted to get my life together. I was planning on going to the military and everything, but that's fucking out of the picture now. Yep. That feels so beggy of like, oh, well it's your fault. I can't do any of this stuff. It's like, no one else committing murder.

It's like, why did you have to catch me? Yeah. Yeah, it's like you're ruining my life because I was about to be a good person. It's like, well, you could have been a good person a few years ago. You could have. You could have shown a would have. Not my problem.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty sad. He claimed he gathered wood for a bonfire to dispose of Seth's remains and neighbors did corroborate that there was an enormous bonfire that night that burned for hours. And this was pretty unusual. But neighbors also said there was so much laughing and music that they just assumed there was a big party.

But no, that's just how they were behaving after they murdered Seth. Laughing, oh my God. Right, to think like, oh, a huge bonfire, that's weird. But I guess they all sound like they're having a great time. So I'm sure nothing's going wrong. Oh, sick It is sick it's really sick yeah. So Mike the ringleader reportedly removed Seth's teeth after he was killed to prevent future identification and then broke his knees to force his remains into a duffel bag to try and discreetly transport him from the house to the fire.

This is beyond. This isn't even, I mean, I don't have to tell you this, but just in case you're wondering where my brain is, like, yeah, it's it's not that like I'm excusing. Murder, but it's one thing to be a hothead teenager who's like, I'm going to do this thing and to react. But there is really not a lot of things more intimate than pulling someone's teeth out and breaking their knees to shove them somewhere. I mean, seriously. That's not a, that's not an impulsive hotheaded thought. That's a, I mean, maybe he was impulsive and now he's like forced into the situation,

but it's like, even I couldn't do that. Like I couldn't pull someone's teeth out. I couldn't do it. Even if I got myself in a situation where it was that or go to jail, I'd be like, obviously jail is what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. There's something really sinister. It does. It feels so calculated and so premeditated that there's just no way around it. Like, none of these people can argue like, oh, I got roped in by accident. Like, this is also clearly the fact that they even had a bonfire and were laughing and joking and staying up all night drinking. Oh my God, like talk about planned.

And how do you even, I couldn't fake laugh. I couldn't even pretend. I couldn't do anything but, I couldn't do anything except scream and cry. And you and I are chameleons and we could not, this is too far. Like if I were, this is a situation where I'm like, Kate, can't chameleon into this one. Nope, not having a fun time at this bonfire.

There's no, yeah, even if my impulsivity got me to a point of killing somebody, I don't care how much just one laugh would help me recover or make me look better, I couldn't do it. Ugh, yeah, so that's exactly it. And it's so gross. The whole story is just sick. And like, anyway, yes.

Long story short, I fully agree. So no, no, no. I'm glad I love, you said, in case you're wondering where my head is at, I would like you to know, I'm always wondering where your head is at. And you can always tell me. Because I'm always happy to know.

Wow. Especially when my head's at the same spot and I'm like, wow, look at us, aw. Yeah, it's nice to know that I'm walking into a room where I'm gonna immediately be validated. Yeah, I'll, I mean. This is how I feel. Hi.

This is how I feel too. Me too. And I know it looked like a scary lingerie store, but it's me behind the curtain and I'm gonna dispense all my wisdom. It was actually someone who just wanted to tell me that he is an artist behind the bar the entire time. Poor guy. Okay, so allegedly Mike removed Seth's teeth, then broke his knees in the bathtub of the house to get him into a duffel bag so that he could get him from the house to the bonfire. Once they burned his body down to just bone fragments, they put the final remains

inside paint buckets and then they tossed the paint buckets into a limestone quarry. So yikes. All five of them, five of them were immediately arrested for murder and investigators began building their case. There's footage of the group talking while they aren't in, while police are not in the room, which I'm always just so shocked that people don't get it that they're always watching you. Like if you're in interrogation room, you're on camera. The one place you shouldn't speak is a fucking police station. What are you talking about?

Especially a young person. I'm like, you know how cameras work and stuff, right? Like, you know you're on camera. But yeah, it's just wild to me. To do, I mean, how many hours do you think all that effort went in after the killing? If like the bleaching an entire place, breaking someone's knees and taking out their teeth, shoving them into a thing, putting them into another thing, putting rocks in that thing, bringing it to a quarry.

Like, how many hours of effort? And this is where I have a lot of dreams where I've committed a murder and now I have to get myself out of the situation. That's like a regular dream of mine, which I'm sure is like some like loss of control fear or something. But in those dreams, my 90% of the dream is me just waiting second by second by second for somebody to knock on the door because I've been found out. It's like I can't like to like the fact that they like Amber just like woke up and like had fucking breakfast or something and then just you know when she got the text from Seth's

mom being like have you seen him? Yeah. That had to be like if that didn't leave a massive pit in her stomach of like, it's happening, like it's, I just don't, I just can't comprehend a person not responding with just utter guilt. It's interesting you say that because literally the next line is that when she was in the room, the interrogation room by herself, or at least not with police, she totally, completely did not understand what kind of trouble she was in. She had no idea.

She was just like super casual, and she complained tearfully to her friends, quote, if I get five years, I'll be 20 by the time I get out. Oh my God, wow, she's fully just devoid of reality. You have no idea what's coming. And no guilt, just to be like, wow, she's fully just devoid of reality. You have no idea what's coming. And no guilt, just to be like, oh, poor me. It's not about him, exactly. It's not about the actual murder.

It's like about like, oh man, now I have to go to jail. I have to go to jail and worst case scenario, I'll be out before I still can't drink. Like, yes. I know, right? It's like, I cannot believe the lack of understanding here. So of course, detectives go to the crime scene, a forensics team collects shoe print evidence, blood evidence, shell casings from the gun.

They recover small fragments of human male bones in the fire pit. So this is all adding up. And investigators were actually pretty shaken by this. They, I don't know, I don't know why, I guess it's just like one of those cases that really stuck with detectives because they kept hearing about, from all these kids about what had happened and then they actually found the bonfire with the bone fragments and it apparently, I don't know, struck them pretty hard. They also found shoe print evidence and impressions from the paint buckets in the sand on the route to the quarry so they kind of knew, okay that part's true too. And then inside the quarry they

recovered the buckets and Seth's remains within. And the divers and the forensic team were very distraught by this whole situation and the remains were positively linked to Seth using DNA and then a sixth person got involved so There's a lot to say this is the most I was gonna say this is the most open and closed case you've ever I mean you're not wrong though. Like it is there's just Unfortunately one more person who was also involved. So... Okay.

This guy was 38-year-old James Young Havens III. And he actually was Amber's former stepmother... stepfather. Like, he had been with her mom for a while. So he was her stepdad or like former stepdad And he was known to spend a lot of time at Charlie's place with the rest of the teens I mean not rest of the teens because he's 38 but like with the teens also already not a good look And he actually ended up being charged with accessory after the fact because he helped the other five suspects dispose of Seth's remains What a nice father figure. He reportedly... I really like how her mom is like, you have full permission to get whatever information you need out of him.

Isn't that crazy? Like, yow, yowza. God, I mean, okay, so think about it. The mom who called the police, her son was the one who said, hey, I watched this happen. Then she finds out, Oh wait, he was actually involved. Then she finds out, Oh, Amber was like kind of a huge part of this, my daughter. And now she finds out, Oh, my ex was also involved. Like this is crazy for this woman. She's a poor woman. Yeah. She, like everyone

plays of, so know that all three of them were involved in a murder. Like, all of them got together when she wasn't around. Inspired. Yeah. They had to wait for her to go upstairs and like, when she was in the bathroom, they all whispered about the plan. They were like, hey... It's like so... in her her own house under her own roof, like everyone that she should feel the safest with. Yeah. Is I hope that girl,

wherever she is, I hope that woman is doing okay. I do too. I don't know, because it doesn't end well for everybody. But he, this ex of hers, so Amber's former stepdad, reportedly drove Mike and Kyle to the quarry to abandon Cess remains and even coach them on how to properly clean up a crime scene. He also drove Mike out of- Like in case you do this again? No, like while they were cleaning,

he was like, this is how you should clean up the crime scene, like use bleach, et cetera, to make sure you don't get caught. And he also drove Mike out of town so that he wouldn't get arrested. And he claimed when he was brought in, he claimed he didn't know what was in the buckets when he drove the men to the quarry, which is like, okay. And he was even initially declared incompetent to stand trial. And we don't know exactly what this means, at least Saoirse and I don't, but he was sent to competency restoration treatment, which I assume means like some sort of mental health treatment or, you know, for whatever reason he was declared not fit for trial, he was apparently treated

so that he would be competent for trial. And he was then declared fit for trial and he pled guilty to his charges in 2018. And when that happened, Seth's extended family gathered with his parents when a detective came to their home to tell them that Seth's remains had been positively identified. Their worst nightmare had come true.

This was their son. And Sonia's family told the detective that Sonia had still held out hope, right? Because I feel like we see that a lot. Even if everything looks bad, you just have that, you have to, you have that glimmer of hope that maybe somehow they'll find him and he'll be okay. Well, if no one says he's dead, then he could be alive, yeah. There's still a chance.

And so that's what she had hoped, but of course that didn't end up happening. They actually ultimately decided to tell her only an extremely abridged version of what happened at first, because they wanted to wait for a therapist to really sit down with them and like, you know, do the, have that conversation with her. So when the trial began, Charlie and her family did not, also did not seem to grasp how serious this accusation was. Investigators described them,

described her and her family laughing after court hearings, chit chatting about where they'd go for dinner that night, where they'd go for dinner that night, where they'd go to celebrate once she was acquitted of first degree murder. Oh my God. And she, yeah, she was like fully confident that like she had nothing. She was totally guiltless. The court would agree. And guess what?

She was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. So that must have been a shock. That's also like kind of a sick part to it, too, is like you expect. Well, you don't expect it. But like if anyone is going to assume that this isn't that big of a deal compared to what it is, it would be the children. But for like Charlie's own family. Yeah, that's a great point.

Like the parents. Why are you? Yeah. No wonder she didn't fucking realize how bad murder is. If both of them are like, oh, we're going to go to Olive Garden and. I was about to say we're going to go to Olive Garden to celebrate. Yeah, that was exactly my thought. Like, is does not do none of them have an understanding of what first degree murder charges mean? I guess not.

Maybe they like maybe they didn't know and they were like trying to like keep her, like keep their own kid at ease. Maybe. But like if that happened with my kid and my kid was on trial for murder, I could not fake that that well. I could not be like, Oh, let's go get something to eat. We'll be fine. I'm like, I would be a fucking mess. Like my kid would know how bad it was. Yeah. My kid would know how bad this was

based on me not being able to keep it together at the very least. Yeah, I will tell you how big you fucked up, right? Like, I'm not gonna pretend like this is not a big deal. And so it's just so wild to me. And so of course this came as like a total shock. And when she was crying, Charlie, at her sentencing, Sonia, Seth's mom, spoke and said, Of course, this came as like a total shock. And when she was crying, Charlie, at her sentencing,

Sonja, Seth's mom, spoke and said, "'I have no sympathy for the tears you shed. "'They have not been for Seth, "'but rather for what's happened to you.'" And that is so true for Amber. Yeah, I know. For Amber, Charlie, like they're all just kind of upset that they have to go to jail now.

And it's like, wait, what did you think would happen? It just, I can't wrap my head around it. So Justin Roach Soto was also found guilty of first degree murder. He was sentenced to life in prison as well. Amber and Kyle, siblings, were tried together in 2012. And although the entire group identified Mike as the orchestrator of the attack,

investigators felt that Amber likely played a large part in it behind the scenes. She was the one who was kind of riling Mike up about Seth and kind of telling these stories about how he had beaten her. She was like stoking the fire like we talked about. She was the one who lured Seth in with her text. So investigators questioned whether everything Amber said Seth actually did was true or whether she was just kind of like exaggerating or making up the stories to get Mike worked up enough to fight and attack Seth. And of course Amber had like I said done the the whole you know getting him there so even without her this would never even happen this way because she's

the one who lured him in and lied and said, I just want to get back together. And it was a flat out lie. So even without a gun, multiple people jumping one person could easily have escalated fatally. And so basically they were saying, just cause Amber wasn't holding a gun,

like she or didn't fire the shots, like she kind of orchestrated all this. So it's not that she just Facebook comments alone. Yes, it's bad. It's bad. It looks really bad. And investigators also felt, which we've talked about already, that Amber appeared to lack any sort of remorse throughout the entire investigation, like didn't

really seem fazed about Seth or his family. Um, she just cried about the trouble she was in, right? Not like being sad or regretting what she had done. One investigator said, "'For a person that young to be involved "'in something so gruesome, "'either she was hiding her feelings "'or she was just a heartless individual.'

"'However, her brother,' by the way, Kyle Hooper, "'the one who told his mom, like, I saw this happen "'and then immediately spilled his guts, he seemed to fully regret his involvement and fully regret Seth's death. And I kind of mentioned that earlier, that he was basically the only one that investigators felt had any sort of remorse

or felt bad at all about this. And he was the one who kind of claimed to have done it because his little, or his sister was beaten by this guy, right, and he was like, I just got, you know, it was almost like he had kind of gotten roped into it. Yeah. The lead detective said of Kyle, I hate to say it, but I almost feel bad for him

because he was the only one that was remorseful, but it was too late. And I say, yes, and don't waste too much time feeling bad for him because he could have stopped this and he didn't. So, you know, at a certain point, you did what you did. Um, I imagine jail time. Oh, okay. Here we go. Okay. So I wasn't in my notes, but I looked it up. And according to the Ocala Star banner, 44 year old James Young Havens III pleaded guilty

and faced 30 years for helping the teens dispose of the body. Okay. So that's all I know. I don't know. I don't know if he was given the 30 years, but that seems to be like the... Okay, so it says he faces up to 30 years.

And I'm, for some reason, nobody's really giving me an actual number. But it looks like he at least went to prison for a while. So. Okay. Yeah, sorry, I don't have a clearer answer for you there. That's fine. Okay, so both siblings, Amber and Kyle, were found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced

to life in prison. Okay. Just shocking. Mike's trial, the boyfriend, the ringleader, began in 2013 and he faced the death penalty. And the detective who spent time in court, oh, I also want to add that even though some of these people were teenagers, they were all tried as adults, just for clarity's sake. So the detective who spent time in court with Mike said that he was very arrogant, even prideful, saying he's smirky. He thinks he's a star. And so there was was absolutely no remorse once again from this guy. So Mike was found guilty. He was sentenced to death. And in the meantime, the other defendants began filing

appeals. There were a few appeals that actually worked because the court took pity on the defendant's ages, even though they were tried as adults. So Charlie for her case, her conviction was overturned entirely based on complaints of ineffective counsel at trial. And actually her attorney that she had had was barred from practicing law in 2018. And apparently during multiple times during the trial, he had failed to object on Charlie's behalf when he absolutely should have. And so basically she took a deal in 2020 and pleaded guilty to second degree murder, which offered a new 10 year sentence and she'd already spent nine years in prison. So now she was released. So investigators on the case said they felt she should still

be in prison because Seth would never get the chance to come home. But they also said, you know what, we did our jobs. We have to let the court do their job and respect their decisions. So upon her release, her defense attorney said, it's a terrible tragedy and Charlie is just another victim of Michael Bargo and company. I don't know about that, to be honest, but whatever. Yeah. She feels like it was under her roof. Okay. She feels terrible for the Jackson family. This is not a day to celebrate. Okay. Well, on that, I agree. Uh, Seth's mother did not share that sentiment telling the media she was angry that Charlie was released, but did not want to discuss it any further. And the other perpetrators of the

attack remain in prison to this day. They're serving life sentences. In 2021, courts denied an appeal to overturn Mike Bargo's sentencing based on mental conditions that were apparently not considered during trial, but his sentence was upheld and he remains on death row. So at Seth's funeral, the pastor presiding encouraged the congregation, which was made up largely of other teenagers who knew and cared about Seth, to, the pastor presiding encouraged the congregation, which was made up largely of other teenagers who knew and cared about Seth, to remember the good things instead of focusing, of course, on Seth's tragic end. He's remembered as a typical, fun-loving teenager, compassionate

to animals, good to his brothers, a hard worker, a faithful friend. You know, there's obviously some shit I saw in his post that never gets addressed, but okay. According to the pastor, his mother said that the only fault he had was that he never saw a stray animal he didn't love. He was the same way with his friends. And that is the story. I mean, it's really twisted. Wow. Yeah, teenagers. I don't know about the other, the one who got out after 10 years or whatever. I wonder. Yeah. I'd like to hear if they have any remorse or like,

I'd like to know if they're faking it too, but. I know. I mean, their lawyer said yes, but of course they did, right? Like her lawyer said, oh, she feels terrible, but it's like, well, you have to say that. So I don't know if that's true or not. Yeah, it's also I mean, they didn't seem to have a problem not hiding that they had no remorse the first time. Right. So I'm like, and then you're like, I like to think they teenagers. So maybe they didn't even realize.

I don't know, man. It's crazy. I don't know. But be careful out there, folks. Yeah. Be alert and that's it. Oh, that's it. Nothing else. Just be alert.

I was like, do I keep going or do we just end on a high? That's a good one. Be alert. That's today's lesson. A is for alert. Honestly. B, we will find out. We'll find out next week what B stands for.

Nobody knows. I can't wait to find out. If you would like to follow us on our Yapathon where we just talk and talk and talk, you can come hang out with us on Patreon where I will definitely be trying to get to the bottom of this why a horse ends with E thing and until then we are we only have a few shows left if you happen to be in the Minneapolis Milwaukee area or in New England or nope Los Angeles is sold out so oh are all them sold out yeah I want Milwaukee's the only one that's not if you happen to be Milwaukee this is your last chance to see On the Rocks. And then when we come back in the fall, it will be a completely different show.

We will be retiring on the Rocks. So if you can, please come see us. And until then, and that's why we drink.