And That's Why We Drink - E373 The Thirsty Little Rat Inn and the Coowoo Girls

Episode Date: March 31, 2024

It's episode 373 and our other car is a hoop and stick! Who else is feeling the butterflies of putting a new project out into the universe? Christine and her Etsy shop can relate (link below). This week Em takes us to Sudbury, Massachusetts (where we may or may not be currently driving through) to bring us the haunted tales of the Longfellow's Wayside Inn. Then Christine covers the wildly divisive and heartbreaking case of Anthony Broadwater and Alice Sebold. And don't forget to moisturize from the inside out... and that's why we drink! Check out Christine's Etsy store and treat yourself to that hoop and stick bumper sticker you've always wanted! thextinefiles.etsy.com

Do I look, do I look grainy today? You look like you're inside of a mystical shop. Yeah. It's a good thing, I think, to me. Thank you. Why? I, uh, man, I'm just a dummy when it comes to cameras. But as long as you can see me, that's all that matters. As long as my pretty face is in front of those pretty eyes, Christine, you got no problems.

If I didn't see you, I'd be having some sort of a mental break. So I can see bright and clear. Okay, good enough at the very least to be moved is what you're saying. I'm, I'm thoroughly moved. You know what moves me is the fact that after all these years Christine, you're still wearing my shirt. Okay. So I was going to show you, I, uh, so okay. The weather is very weird here today. You know that my favorite weather, that feeling where like it's real, it's warm out, it's spring, but then like the thunder starts rumbling. You know, it's like sunny and now, and now,

oh my gosh. The onset of doom, is that what you mean? Oh, it's so exciting. Yes, it's the calm before the storm. And so I was like, I'm gonna get cozy, put on my favorite shirt, that's Em's shirt actually. And here it is, my Boston University shirt. That's actually Em's Boston University shirt.

There's now, I just noticed today. That's actually Em's Boston University shirt. Now I just noticed today. Oh! Wow, you have worn her up good, okay. I'm telling you. Oh, but my shoulder, Em, look. I, that's, I feel... Wait a minute.

Did you cut the, I know, I know now why you were carrying scissors around. Maybe I nibbled or something, I don't know. You said you needed scissors, and I said, that's weird, but come into my hotel room, and you said, I'm gonna stick your... Oh, I said, don't worry come into my hotel room and you said sssss. Oh I said don't worry about it I got teeth all 32 of them.

Gross. You bit a hole in my shirt. Anyway for those of you not lucky enough to see both of us on camera today, the shirt that I gave me years ago of our alma mater apparently as of of the last wash, developed a giant hole in the shoulder. And I feel I'm sad because it's my fight. I wear it all the time. All the time.

All the time. And I don't know what to do. I guess I should stop wearing it and make it like a little t-shirt quilt or something. But I love wearing it. So it's like the epic conundrum. I know what you mean. And by the way, how perfect because I know I already told you this But this week marks 10 years Christ. Why?

Lightning just like hit a tree literally This is what you wanted girl like literally It is my heart is soaring. I'm in a high stress moment. You didn't hear that No So it happened where there was this huge flash and the flash was so big it scared Junie off the bench. And I was like, here it comes, here it comes, here it comes. It was way louder than I expected. I love it. I'm very jealous. I would give anything for a clap of thunder.

It felt like a very ominous and exciting. You know, if we're ever both recording mid storm, maybe we should bring our equipment outside, obviously wrapped in plastic bags, but just for the ambiance, the rolling thunder sounds behind us. I would love that. Or, I mean, we could open a window like a normal person

would rather than carry the equipment. We could add a sound effect. Into the rain. Like a normal person. Or that. I was going to say, this is the 10 10 year anniversary of me getting into Boston University which means it's the 10 year anniversary of you getting into Boston University which means it's the 10 year anniversary of us becoming twinkles in our eyes. I feel like this is the 10 year anniversary of our spirit guides going

god damn it we've been trying to push these two morons together When will they kiss? I know I know they they're still wondering You know any day any day now we treat each other's clothes or at least I do I take your clothes That should count for something. Yeah, we're definitely in the right direction Cupid is getting the itch scratched, you know Man why do you drink? I've done something. Ugh. I have decided, so Em was talking to me when this happened. I just came up with this idea very suddenly

and out of nowhere to create a bumper sticker that says my other car is a hoop and stick and I have a picture over here and so I Designed it while I was on texting with M and then 48 hours later I set M a picture because I had ordered a hundred of them on oh you didn't say that part and What I've done is In the free time that I don't have I have completely rebranded my Etsy shop And this is the first time I'm ever telling anyone about it. So M. I'll show it to you

It's called. Let's see. What's the link Etsy comm slash? I think shop slash here. I'll just send it to you. Oh, theexteenfiles.etsy.com. And I have a bunch of bumper stickers up there that I designed yesterday. And I'm gonna donate 30% of any of the sales, if I make any sales, to charity, and they will change every month. Right now, this is just like an outlet,

because I love to craft. Right now, let me see. Where are they? Did you get the link? I sure did. So you know the fact that every day we're like, what can we give Patreon? You're like, I don't know, as you make bumper stickers.

OK, well, I can't just mail thousands of them, unfortunately. I wish I could make them for Patreon. I have literally 100 of only one of the designs. So they are all pre-orders, and I figured I'd just order as many as people, like if five people order them, I'll order five of them and send them.

But it's mostly, I would like to send, you know, donate most of the proceeds to charity. This month I picked Palestine Children's Relief Fund, because it seemed very timely and I don't know. It sure does. I was making some Fall Out Boy keychains too that are in the draft so I don't know if I'm going to post those either but I don't know.

Well. I've had an Etsy shop since I was like 13 and I feel like I'm always messing with it and this time I thought I'd actually talk about it so you know let me know what you think folks but it's theexteenfiles.etsy.com? I don't know we'll put it in the show notes I guess and now I lost you where's your tab hold on well now let's play a game called beach to sandy watershowat where I read your reviews okay so no don't remember it's so embarrassing I a- Why would you give me this window? This big wide open window.

I think I got a bad review at one point. Did you? Because you have a 4.8, which I guess that means- Yeah, one of them wasn't like- It wasn't that nice. I think I just screwed up what I was doing. I think I was a little too over eager with my SVG files I was selling,

and I don't think I really quite knew how to do it the right way. You know, it's from Kelly Haskins, and I don't think I really quite knew how to do it the right way. You know, it's from Kelly Haskins, and it's a four star review, and there is no comment. So you didn't bother Kelly that much. Okay, that's good. I'll take it. I like to think that it was a slip of the thumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or she thought, let's just put her in her place a little bit. You know, and that's fine. I get it. No, by most, I mean all are very excited about your product, so. Well, these are all from when I sold other products. So now we'll see, because these are brand new. I just put them up today, so these stickers, and I have not posted it anywhere.

So we'll see if anybody even finds it. I'm scared of the damage you could do, because all it's gonna to take is one weird attitude change of you and you want to like roast me publicly in some way. I could see a bumper sticker all of a sudden showing up that makes a lot of money about, I don't know, I feel like you could do something really dangerous. It's definitely a great idea I would say. I would say it's really thinking outside the box. I'm not trying to plant the seed. What's happening is I'm, fear is building inside of me

once I know you have a power that I can't control. And- Okay, to be fair, the power was with you and I made my other car as a hoop and stick. And so that was about the- That was a joint decision. But you- That was as far as the process goes.

That was a joint decision. And then five minutes later, Christine was like, done. And I went, wait a minute. I was saying hypothetically. I have no, like I cannot keep it. I have no control. So I'm sorry that I did this. This is why I drink, because I know I guarantee this is going to come out.

And I probably have already forgotten about this Etsy store. And I'm going to go, oh no, now I have to mail out 500 bumper stickers. I don't think there will be 500 sold, this is why I've only ordered 100 total of all of them. So if, you know, and I put little limits on them, so if they sell, that would be great, if not, don't worry about it. I'm actually toying around with maybe

just giving all the proceeds to charity, I don't really need like a side hustle right now. I'm like, okay. So we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. But anyway, I just, I'm toying with it. And so it's making me anxious, cause I'm like, you know what? I did a meditation and I said,

I said to my spirit guides, what should I do? Like what's through my next step be? And the message I received was to just hoop and stick bumper sticker. How did you know? They even gave me the font and everything. They said share, share your creativity. So I thought, okay, fine, I'll stop doing it

just behind my own computer in the dark in the middle of the night on weed gummies and I will actually share them with the world so I don't know maybe people will be like these are ugly but we'll see well good luck to you because I have a feeling you're gonna get a nice reminder of why we stopped selling patreon t-shirts I know that's why I don't think you know what you've done quantities are extremely limited okay yeah that means it's definitely

gonna sell all 100. Just stamp the envelopes now. They all say pre-order, because I was like, I don't want to like say two-day shipping and then be on tour and be like, wait, what? The second people hear that there are only 100 of a very limited edition hoop and stick bumper sticker. Are you here? Are you listening to what's happening? I don't know though, because part of me is like, I feel so delusional, like I'm out of touch with reality. So, you know, I don't know. Anyway. I'm very proud of you. I'm not trying to poo poo.

I'm just also trying to warn you of the reality you've caused. I appreciate it. And I really am in a kind of a frantic head space. Remember that during our after hours, we've read our horoscope and it said like, creative, it's a great day to pursue a creative passion that you've been thinking about. And you were like, does that apply to you? And I was like, yeah, I think so. And then afterwards, without even thinking about it, I was like, oh, I should work on

my Etsy shop. And so I guess the horoscope was correct. Well, the irony is that one of your bumper stickers says, well if it isn't the consequences of my own actions and I think I'm just going to buy that and then you don't even have to ship it to me. It's gonna be a gift to you after this. When you take your scissors to my hotel room

you're gonna cut holes in my stuff and then stick the stickers over them just to really seal the deal. I'll actually take the rest of that shirt and the rest of my teeth and I'll nibble it out like ransom letters. Your teeth! And I'll just spell out the consequences of your actions. Oh, you know what?

You're right, that should be the image I put above my mirror to really remind myself of what I've done. So I'm gonna drink, by the way, I'm gonna drink this wild cherry TH, I'm gonna drink this Wild Cherry THC seltzer. It's a Delta, Delta 9, Delta 8, I don't know, seltzer. Why do you drink this week? Because I did this, because I did this stupid thing. Oh, no, that's just, I just get to watch that like a sport now.

I haven't even told Blades. He's gonna be like, what is going on? Why are you mailing 600 things and buy 600? Is it 2017? Yeah, have you back slid? Just for good measure, throw a clown nose into every envelope. Oh, we did used to do that, guys. That was so cute. The real ones now. The real ones now.

Why I drink. I don't totally know. I think I'm like Experiencing a pre burnout because I'm about to be on the road for so long This is like my big big leg because I'm gonna be on the East Coast. I'm gonna stick around I'm just I'm aware that I'm not gonna be home for a while So I'm already kind of getting the jitters about that. So when do you oh, this is the conversation I guess off-air, but you're gonna be gone for do you know

how long or not really just like a while um let me see you don't have to tell me right now I'm just curious I don't care I just don't know um I'm gonna be gone I guess we've got like another week before I even have to really worry about it but uh like two and a half weeks I guess we've got like another week before I even have to really worry about it, but Like two and a half weeks, I guess I'm gonna have to record in advance. I also haven't gotten any tickets yet So I was like you just let Eva and Katie know cuz I'll be there. I'll be wherever you need me to be. I I also I'm realizing I'm not actually like against because I was thinking about to myself and I was like if I really want to like Commit to traveling but not make it like inconvenient to anybody else Like how hard would it be to pack up like recording equipment and just record wherever I am?

Yeah, I was like it's actually not that I could totally do it I mean, you're about to take it out into a thunderstorm. So I think you could probably I mean, you're about to take it out into a thunderstorm, so I think you could probably figure it out. You know what I mean? But if we ever do end up in a situation where I would like to... Because I really like that I have recording stuff at my mom's house, and I was like,

it's not that much equipment. I could bring it. Like, it's fine. Yeah, you could just pack, like, an extra little duffel with it. Remember when we used to record in hotel rooms, but it was just, um... Oh, my God. It was just through the computer. The audio was terrible. And the episode was due that night at midnight, hotel rooms, but it was just, um, Oh my God. It was just through the computer.

The audio was terrible. The episode was the next, do the next, that night at midnight and we forgot. And poor Eva was like, please, please. And then you would go, I would go down the hallway into a different room and we would just zoom or whatever and record. I mean, God, what is wrong with those? Well, speaking of like you and your creativity, not that this is, this is not something I've fully settled on, but I am aware that I do a lot of traveling

and I'm aware that quite a lot of people, like enough people for me to notice, ask for like itineraries I do and like places I go. And it already kind of fits in with our Haunted Road Atlas, but it's just like an extended version of it. And like, but I've been thinking about traveling more and then doing something with that. I don't know if it's just like an extended version of it. And like, but I've been thinking about traveling more and then doing something with that. I don't know if it's-

Oh yeah, I love that idea. A blog? I don't know what it is. A vlog? A vlog or like just like a review after the fact. I think a vlog would be legit. I was joking about a blog because I feel like that's kind of outdated.

But a vlog people would watch or TikToks. I mean, I would watch a TikTok where you run around and show us cool shit you find. That's true, that's true. Although TikTok's about to be banned, LOL. I know, good times. But anyway, something's stirring in my head. I love that for you.

Yeah, anyway, we'll see what happens. So I guess that's why I drank, but I feel stuck between like a, I don't know what the right word is, but it's like the fear of trying something new because I don't want to commit all the way but like if I'm gonna do something I'm gonna commit all the way so I don't that's where I know this damn shop and then that's why I said I'm just gonna blurt it out first thing because if I don't I'm never gonna hold myself to it now the universe has to hold me to it, which is a terrifying thought, but.

It's terrifying, yeah. So I'm gonna watch you go through it first. Yeah, I'll go first. And then when I tell you, don't do it, you can decide what your next creative journey will be. But honestly, I like that you're saying it out loud too, cause it kind of cements it, like in reality. And we'll all start thinking about it and you know waiting for it.

It gives other people an opportunity to make a comment down below. Yeah, chime in. Comment on my blog post. Give me ideas on what it should be too. If it should be a YouTube thing. The medium. Yeah, because it all feels very overwhelming. But I know I like doing it. And Allison and I were very lucky to have found people in our relationship where she's incredibly

independent, I'm incredibly independent. We have really not too much interest in constantly being near each other. And so I love traveling domestically and Allison loves traveling internationally. Together we'll take on the whole world. Yeah, together you'll map it all out together, yeah. That's beautiful. And then you'll meet back in Burbank. Right.

But I know I'm lucky that I've got a partner who would be cool with me traveling more and I like doing it. I like, I love traveling alone, so that works out really well. I also love traveling alone. It's so much fun. It's one of my favorite things.

Anyway, I guess that's why I drink, because I don't really know, but I feel like there's something, there's a butterfly in the tummy telling me I gotta do something. Yes, okay, I love this, because that's where my brain has been too, and I didn't know how to put it,

but I like the butterfly. It's like, feels like a fluttering. Yeah, yeah. She hasn't taken off yet, but she's testing the wings out, you know, before she does anything about it. She's testing the ground with her feet or whatever butterflies do. That she might be up to it. I don't think so, but she may be. Maybe. Anything's possible. I, though, before we get into anything, I don't know. You told me what you're drinking. I'm drinking an LD This is where I tell everybody your weekly reminder

Drink some water you thirsty little rats. I didn't bring mine this time. So i'll just keep drinking my THC seltzer Drink something Moisturize yourself from the inside, you know, yeah. Okay. Did you like that? No, it's getting weird. Should I say it more? It's getting weirder and worse somehow. We'll find a way to make it worse next week. How you do it, it's kind of incredible. So I don't know if you're ready for a story, but I got me a good one today.

I actually am, I'm very ready. Bring it on. It's almost as if you came here to hear a story. Almost. Almost. And all of you listening as well. So this is just like last week. I felt like I was on a roll last week.

I felt like that was a really good story. I feel like I did a lot of, a lot of, we did a lot of banter. It was a little goofy. I love when they're a little goofy. I love when they're a little goofy. I got you another one where I stayed up even later than last time just to make sure I got all the deets for you. Okay and just for clarification, last time was 4 a.m.

So now we've got an even later than that. This was a 5.30. Whoa, whoa, okay. But because it was so early, or because it was so late, it was actually so early, so I got to have a fun little treat afterwards, and I had McDonald's breakfast into me. Oh, that's fun.

And then I fell asleep with a bunch of carbs in my body. Oh, it was a good time. On Beachy Sandy, we talked about a squirrel who found a big McDonald's hash brown in a trash can and just was so delightedly happy just eating that hash brown. That's how I'm picturing you right now. To be, oh gosh, to be like proportionally the size

of a squirrel to a hash brown when it comes to my food. The hash brown size of your whole body. I'll never know that kind of joy, but I am really stoked for the squirrel. Yeah, thank you. I was too. I'm glad you understand. Apparently there's a word, I am not of this space, but apparently it's used a lot in like the poly community and it's called compersion.

I've never heard of it. It is the opposite, I guess, and I, poly people please scrape at me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of it is that it's the just, the just general joy you get. It's like the opposite of the jealousy that you might feel in the relationship every now and then. But it's just like- So it's like not schadenfreude, it's like anti-schadenfreude.

Like instead of feeling happy about someone's sadness, you're happy about their happiness, sort of? Yes. It's like, so I feel compersion for that squirrel with the hash brown. Oh, I love that. It's like, oh, it fills my heart that you're having such an enjoyable experience.

I love that. That's a beautiful term. It's like, I don't even want to ruin your good time. I just know you're having the best time ever and you deserve it. And you're gonna- Yeah, and it's not even like I'm envious of you. I'm just so happy for you, you know, yeah

Maybe I have so much compersion. I'm actually jealous of The hash brown and not you. Oh god that well, it's getting a little Getting a little far now cuz now you've become a piece of trash being eaten. Okay, I mean in there but Let's talk about this episode because I worked very hard on these notes. I'm very proud of these notes. I think you're gonna have a good time. I filled it with fun facts for you. And there may be a video clip

that I send your way halfway through. Oh my Lord, okay, I'm ready. Buckle up, my friends, because today we travel to Sudbury, Massachusetts, which is also where we might actually be traveling right now. Yeah, that sounds familiar-ish. I also have a caveat, which I wrote at 5 a.m. In this episode, take a shot. In this episode, if you take a shot every time I say the word in, then you will die from alcohol poisoning.

Oh, what a fun PSA. So before you think, let's give it a whirl, I'm telling you now what will happen. Okay, good. This is the Longfellow's Wayside Inn. Longfellow's Wayside Inn, okay. You have heard about this, you just don't know it yet. Sure.

And I'll just get into it. This is in Sudbury, Massachusetts. It dates back to 1707. So again, it's one of those very old ass buildings. The last one last week was also very old for the US. Yes, that was a king's tavern, right? That was 17 something. Yeah, weird that I'm doing two taverns in a row.

I love it. OK, well, this one dates back even further than the last one, I think. This, or at least around the same time. This dates back to 1707. This was the home of David Howe and his very pregnant wife at the time, named Hepizba, Hepizba.

Wow. You know what? The world is loving old names for babies right now. So maybe. I bet you it's back. If someone is out there, they were struggling for an old name as a baby name, a Pizba just might be the one for you.

Might be. Might not be, but might be. Some deserve to stay in the past, I think, maybe. So David Howe, his wife, a Pizba, I hope I'm saying that right, and they would later go on to have seven kids in this house, but she was pregnant I think with her first. Fun fact again, just like how we mentioned last time that taverns back in the 1700s, they would spell horse without an E. Well David, his last name Howe, started out without an E, but by 1716, there's an E at the end of his name.

So weird. Okay. I guess between 1707 and 1716 is when everyone just throw in an extra E on the words. Sure. Why not? He adds an E to his last name. He builds onto his personal house that he has moved into and he gets a license to run a house of entertainment. House of entertainment. Okay. That sounds like fun. Which if you recall last week, that was what they would write on all of the taverns to let people know passing through that it was indeed a tavern and inn.

And it had entertainment for your horse. Entertainment for man and horse, without the E at the time. Right, sure. Maybe he put an E on his last name, and then he was like, let's also throw one on horse, and he was the beginning of it all. I feel like maybe the person who was creating the signs and stuff added the E's

to be like, oh, just I charge per letter. You know? Yeah, yeah. Like maybe he was like, I'm just gonna add a few letters. They won't even notice. Or he's got like writer's cramp. Writer's cramp? Like your wrist.

Wouldn't that mean he'd write fewer letters? Well, he was probably trying to avoid it. So he wrote less. Wasn't he adding it? Wait, what? No, Horston used to have an E, remember? Oh, I know, I know. I thought, because we were talking about

how it developed the E, and I was saying, I wonder if whoever was making signs in that town added an E to be like, I charge by the letter, so pay me extra. Yes, he was making a prettier penny than others. Right, maybe. I don't know. Just a thought. So the house was on the route that people used

to travel from Boston to New York. So it was on a poppin' street, Main Street USA for this area. And Dave was like, well I'm obviously going to run with that. And if this is on a very busy path, and I now have my license for public entertainment, we're gonna make this bad boy an inn. So he expands on his

own house even more. He becomes an innkeeper. And fun fact, he becomes a second generation of innkeeper because his father nearby also runs an inn. Aw. And this is just more of a fun fact than anything else, but his dad runs an inn called the Black Horse Inn. Oh, okay. And one of my favorite, I didn't do any personal research last night about this,

but one of my favorite fun facts that I just kinda know in general is that taverns used to always be like a phrase like that, like black horse inn or like the, I don't know, red dog or cat and bell. Thirsty rat. Because a lot of people couldn't read and so you had to be able to describe the picture that was hanging on the sign over the taverns. Oh, Thirsty Little Rat Inn would have a little thirsty rat.

Stop. The rat hole is what they call the bar. How cute. And then the rat's nest is the inn upstairs. Oh, that's so nice. And you know they sell cheese. Well, obviously. Obviously.

Obviously. Yeah. So fun fact, they were always called a random item and they would pick like nowadays when you hear like an old bar name, it's always a picture in your mind that's kind of weird. It's like the white gloved fox and it had to be like a specific thing that way look different than the rest of them. That is a fun fact. I did not know that. Yeah, it was because people couldn't read. Like something descriptive.

Yeah, you just had to kind of AI caption the picture yourself. Whoa, I love that. So anyway, his dad ran the black horse in, which I'm assuming had a black horse on the sign. And David ended up naming his place, which he did not follow the rule here. He named it the Howe Inn because he wanted to name it after himself.

Okay, nice try. Maybe he drew a picture of himself on it. Well, I think what I was gonna say next is I think it ends up getting resolved later because the Howe Inn ends up being ran by four generations of Howes. So David and then his three descendants after him.

Wow. Okay. So they continue the lineage. Yes. And I think at some point they were like, nobody can read. We can't call it the Howe Inn. So then when David's son takes over, he renames it the Red Horse Inn after his grandpa who runs the Black Horse Inn. Oh, that's cute. Okay. And it even becomes a meeting place for soldiers during the Revolutionary War. Fun fact. OK. And it even becomes a an equal opportunity bar

where whoever like is in charge of the turf at that point gets to come to the bar. OK, so they just don't discriminate based on their leaning, their political leanings. Apparently not. So, yeah, Grandpa John, he runs the Black Horse Inn, then his son opens up the Howe Inn, farther down the road, I guess. His son, Ezekiel, is the one who names it the Red Horse Inn. Okay.

And then in 1796, his son, Adam Howe, His son Ezekiel is the one who names it the Red Horse Inn. And then in 1796, his son Adam Howe turns it into Wilkerson's Tavern. I guess people can read again. And then he picked a big one. Yeah. Also, what is Wilkerson about? Who the hell is that? What a random ass last name. In 1830, Adam's son Lyman, he takes over the inn until he passes

in the 1860s. Weird about Lyman, he was known in town as the Squire of Sudbury. And nobody felt like giving me an explanation to that. Okay, sure. So, I would like to be known as the Bard of Burbank or something. Oh wait, there's already one of those I think Are you gonna usurp the throne? No, no, no, I would never do that. The Bard is actually a very impressive Who is that? He's a guy on the street of downtown Burbank and he will play the car performs Great. So you're about to try and put him out of business. Yeah, I don't wanna do that.

And he's very good. He sings a lovely yesterday. So I gotta come up with a new thing. But if there's a square Sudbury, I could be something of Burbank. Yeah, sure. You come up with it. You let me know when that's handled.

Okay, I will. So that means that there were four generations that ran this inn, five in total, because there's the other guy who ran his own. They love innkeeping. That's just their jam. I see. I can see that. So the last one, the last how of the family to run the inn was Lyman, the squire of Sudbury. He also had a sister, Adam's daughter, her name was Jerusha, and she worked at the inn with the squire until she also passed away in the 40s. So we're going to come back to Jerusha, but just know that the last generation of the family to own this place was a brother and sister duo.

And this is in the 1840s? Yes. Okay, gotcha. And it was in the 1840s because Jerusha ends up dying in the 1840s, I think. What about the Baron of Irving? There was some conflicting info. Let's just say through the 1860s.

Okay. Because that's when Lyman dies, and then the inn has to be passed on. So at some point also the inn is called the Leric Hotel and Tavern, but we don't know a lot of information on that. So just throwing, just so you have all the names. At some point it was also called the Lyric. And fun fact, ever since it opened, they served certain old drinks here, which I would like to maybe either test your knowledge

or just educate. Oh, I probably don't know. You educate me. Okay, so there are two drinks that they used to sell here. They would sell others, but these two get mentions and articles. One is called a flip, which apparently was a common cocktail in the colonial era.

And it was there's a lot of and or options for the ingredients. I guess it was depending on what they had in stock. Sure. But to make a flip, you needed to have either hard cider or ale mixed with dark rum or brandy, mixed with molasses or sugar, mixed with spices or a cinnamon stick, and eggs. I knew it. I was like, if you had me guess, I was gonna say, guarantee there's eggs in one of them because I don't know why all these old timey ones have eggs. It's gross.

Yeah, we've talked about it in a previous episode and have already forgotten the purpose, but something maybe about like preserving it or- I think that we talked about it in an after hours when we were doing Halloween cocktails maybe. Is that right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I feel like we were talking about putting egg white

in your drink and I said, it's really not my jam, but. Anyway, if you have any of those, especially eggs, you can make a flip in your very own home. What if I have eggs in a cinnamon stick? Will that work? You're halfway there. And I guess back then they also liked this thing hot so if you like scrambled eggs in your brandy That's so much worse. Somehow that's worse. I don't even know

You could take a hot poker next to the fireplace and stir that around in the drink to make it hot Is that really what they did? No way, that's actually pretty cool You couldn't just sit it by the fire I don't know why we're sticking a dirty metal stick full of ash into our egg. They cannot start whatever not baked by the hearth. I know if there's eggs in a cup. And this is true. If you happen to know food science, please let me know.

But if you crack like two eggs into a cup full of alcohol and then just sit it by the fire, does it turn into like a quiche? Yeah, yeah! That's funny. I had the same thought. Interesting. Oh my god. Imagine if the liquid and the egg whites, right, they get mixed together and then they get baked and now you have an alcoholic quiche or an alcoholic souffle. It's creative. I think if I were on Chopped, I would... That's a risk I'd be willing to take,

but anywhere else, nobody wants to eat that, maybe. Unless you're like someone who's weirdly into eggs. But even I won't go that far, so... Maybe I'm not as weirdly into them as I thought. I would be interested to see it on a plate as a server is bringing it to another table. You know what I mean? Where he has the metal poker and he's just like clanging it.

It becomes like a whole like how they use how they have the cart that makes guacamole every now and then they just they just bring a dirty stick out and some eggs and put it in your alcohol. And you know there's an upcharge for that too. Like that's not gonna be cheap. Yeah. But someone is posting on their socials about it. Very Instagram worthy. Very.

So that's the first drink that was called a flip. And I guess that, I guess some ingredients could be changed out for others, but the eggs always stayed. And then the second drink, which is apparently specific to the Wayside Inn and claims to be the oldest cocktail in the country, and they still serve it.

So you could have it yourself. It is called the Koo-Woo. I've never, never heard of it. Which is spelled cow-wow. Cow-wow. Oh my god. And I kept saying cow- wow for about three hours. And then I watched one video on it

and immediately was humbled where they went. I cannot abide by us talking about cow wow for the next half hour and then being so mortified when this episode comes out. Well, I thought maybe it was like, in my head, I know they did not speak like this in the 1700s, but I was like, maybe they, it was like, in my head, I know they did not speak like this in the 1700s, but I was like, maybe they, it was such a strong drink. They were trying to say like cowabunga, like something or woo.

Oh wait, woo makes sense. Coo woo. Hmm. Okay. Okay. Well, maybe I just figured it out. Um, by the way, and it's spelled C-O-O-W W-O-O-W. Okay. You did say that it was spelled cow wow,-O-W, W-O-O-W.

Okay, you did say that it was spelled cow-wow, which I feel that that's not quite what that spells. I feel like that's just cow-wow, which is with extra O's. But I... Okay, well, I feel like the W's at the end aren't necessary. If it was just C-O-O, WO, WLO, I would have said it. I told you the sign maker pay charges per letter. How many times do I have to tell you?

You know what, put it on a bumper sticker and no one will know you're actually on your car leaving a decal about a cocktail. An alcoholic drink. So what's in the cat koo woo? The koo woo, which again, there's no explanation to the name. It is easy.

This one you can do with two ingredients. It is two parts rum, one part ginger brandy. That's how most people seemed online. They were like, well, I'll get it once if I ever visit the actual place. Right, novelty. Like for the novelty of visiting. Yeah, we all take one for the table.

Everyone takes a sip. Koo woo and then we get something else. But also imagine for some reason you're having like a bachelorette party in Sudbury, Massachusetts, and you could be now. We're talking to be the Koo woo girls. That's really fun. I like that. So anyway, fun fact, you could have a flip, you could have a kubu,

you could probably have other things, but those are the two most noteworthy ones. And, uh, and now we're in the 1860s after the how family has owned it. So in 1862, uh, at the time it, the, this was during the war, and so I think the inn was suffering for a few reasons, but it was looking a little dilapidated. However, author Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, he visits the inn after being encouraged by his publisher and probably his own friends and family because I just, in my research, learned one of the reasons that Henry Wadsworth

Longfellow was probably such a sad, sad man at this point in his life. He very, very, very awfully lost his wife in a house fire that he was also in. And he couldn't get to her in time. And it was an accident. It was just like the wax from a candle. And I guess he was known for a very long beard. Like when people think of him, they see a picture of him. He's got a very long beard. Like when people think of him, they see a picture of him, he's got a very long beard.

Apparently it was because in the fire, he burnt his face so much that he couldn't shave anymore. And so he ends up growing out the beard and it became like his iconic look. Oh my God, I had no idea. Yeah, and so he ended up losing his wife very out of nowhere and in a very awful way. And people were like,

and he was still trying to like work and write at this point. And he was like, I have writer's block. I don't know why. And everyone was like, dude, fucking go somewhere and like just like chill. So he goes out into the middle of nowhere. And apparently he ends up in Sudbury, Massachusetts, and he finds this inn and Like I said the the tavern and the end were in rough shape

I think that part of it was only now being used for lodging that could have been because it was during the war the business Was sinking because the howe family just lost it and also After seven additions, this is extra interesting, after the building had had seven additions built on top of it, it also went through a fire. So anyway, it wasn't looking good.

He wasn't feeling good. They were a match made in heaven. And while he was staying there, this is where he got his inspiration for his now famous collection of stories called The Tales of a Wayside Inn. Oh my god! And so, I'm not going to read the whole thing because it's long, but he has a prelude in this book where he describes the inn itself that he is staying in and all the experiences he has in it, which he writes about throughout the collection. And part of the prelude is him just describing the inn

and it says, half a faced by rain and shine, the red horse prances on the sign. So I'm guessing they still have the old red horse sign up from like when his like grandpa, when like one of the older howl men still had it. Half a faced by rain and shine, the red horse prances on the sign,

round this old fashioned quaint abode, Um, half a face by rain and shine, the red horse prances on the sign. Round this old-fashioned quaint abode, deep silence reigned save when a gust went rushing down the country road and skeletons of leaves and dust. A moment quickened by its breath, shuttered and danced their dance of death, and through the ancient oaks overhead mysterious voices moaned and fled. Ooh, you just gave me goose camp. So this book became a bestseller and the popularity of it brought in all these new people wanting to see the inn and like stay where Longfellow did. Um,

fun fact also around this time, he wrote the poem Paul Revere's Ride, which was big for him. And in 1897, this is only a few years after the house no longer owned the inn, a guy named Edward Lemon, he bought a building and renamed it, or he bought the building and renamed it after the poem and called it Longfellow's Wayside Inn. And his goal was to- I'm mad, because there was such a good opportunity

for the Lemon Inn. The Lemon. The Lem-In. Well, also, there was a wasted opportunity when the Howes lived there. They should have called it the Howes. Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha.

That's pretty good. People are just dumb, dummies. So Lemon calls it the Longfellow's Waysideside in and he decides that he wants it to be a getaway location for aspiring writers and poets to You know work as long fellow did when they stayed there Unfortunately in 1923, so only like 25 years later The family has the lemon family has lost a lot of money trying to restore this place because it looked real rough at one point and they've lost a lot of money and

Edward ends up dying and so his wife is a mrs. Lemon is left with like how do I? Pay for this. What do I do? I don't even want anything to do with this, honestly. I'm just going to sell it." And luckily sells the property to Henry Ford. Oh, shit. What? Well, so he apparently was a big fan of Longfellow. It also worked out that he could afford to do the rest of the renovations and keep it in.

And that man loved a living history museum. And so he wanted to turn it into a living history museum. Okay, that's cool. What's a living history? Is that when people dress up? I think so. It's like creating. So I am going to butcher this.

So if you're a Henry Ford fan, which why? Because capitalism. But if you know anything about him. He was like really into eugenics. But yeah, also capitalism. That's a great point. I only I'm talking about capitalism because what I'm my next thing I'm going to say is when we were in Detroit, I went to the Henry Ford Museum

and it was very pro capitalism. There was a lot of so that part's more on my mind right now. Yeah, they're trying to sell you a car. Well, also, he created like the assembly line and the nine to five. And he's the reason why you and me and our brains suffer because the world is not meant for diversity. Oh yeah, very anti-union.

It's a whole thing. To answer your question, he is very into living history museums and that he likes to keep a whole space looking exactly as it did during a certain point in time. And one of the things that he has at his museum is like, I think I could be fucking this up, but it sounds like he completely recreated his like childhood town on the museum property. Of way of this pin or like the?

Of the Henry Ford Museum. Oh yeah. One of the things you can pay for is like to go through his childhood town that he's rebuilt there. Yes, he like recreated the path. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, I didn't get to do that.

It was gonna take too long. I only did the like indoor museum part. I think it was closed when I, I've been a couple of times to that museum. I think it was closed, but I think my mom's been to that part. That was it was closed when I, I've been a couple of times to that museum. I think it was closed, but I think my mom's been to that part. That was, I mean, I don't like Henry Ford,

but that was an incredible museum. It's a really nice museum. It's, and he's like a brilliant guy. I mean, he really fucked up obviously, but like really brilliant guy. Yeah. It's always the brilliant ones that take it a little too fucking far.

Yeah. Well, not always the brilliant ones, but oftentimes. Someone with a lot of power and a lot of money, can you believe it? Oh yeah. So anyway, he likes a living museum. He saw this in and as a fan of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, he was like, I know just what to do here.

He bought thousands of acres around the area. Oh boy. And he even consulted with Thomas Edison on how to set up electricity, which like, that's the guy. Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna go to the source, go to the fucking source. That's like a mob guy being like, oh, I know someone.

I know someone, don't even worry about it. I got it handled. And it's Thomas fucking Edison. Oh, I was gonna say Tony Soprano I missed the metaphor. Okay, the Thomas Edison of the Italian mob. So I understand. Okay. Okay. Okay Famously, so he consults with Edison for electricity He buys up all this acreage and he ends up putting several buildings on the site Which I think some of them he restored some of them he built from scratch

I think he restored most of them and then relocated them to the property. And some of these buildings were a grain mill, saw mills, a barn, a boys' school, like an orphanage for teenage boys, a dairy, a blacksmith shop, gardens, orchards, all sorts of stuff. So is the, like for example, the boys' school, is that functioning or is that just like for show?

It was functioning on the property originally when he set it up. Okay. And I think he, he also wanted all of these other pieces of the property to be working so that way, while the teenagers were staying there, they could also learn trades on a farm.

Gotcha. Okay. So it ends up being, I guess, a very living museum. Very living. My two favorite places that he built are the things that he put on the property. One was a chapel, which I only like it for this fun fact. He called it the Martha Mary Chapel, and it's named after him and his wife's moms.

That's nice. Oh, that's nice. Wait, him, oh, his mom and his wife's moms. That's nice. That's nice. Wait, him? Oh, his mom and his wife's mom? Mm-hmm. That's cute. So yours would be the Sherry Renata Chapel. Renata Sherry, yeah. Again, our family names never work together. I don't know. It's unfortunate. The Linda Renata would actually be very lovely. That would be the Renata Linda, which would mean the pretty Renata. She loved that.

Oh, all right, sure. But no, that's so, the only fun fact is that it's named after their moms. And then my other favorite thing that he put on this property is he relocated a one-room schoolhouse. I should have seen that coming. How did I not see that coming?

I love a one room schoolhouse. And here's some fun facts about it. It was open until 1951. The grades that operated there were first grade through fourth grade. It was called the Redstone School because wouldn't you believe it, it was made of red stone. Wow. And here's my number one favorite fun fact about this.

The redstone school had a student, her name was Mary. That bitch had a pet lamb. I know about this story. Oh my gosh. She nursed that little lamb back to health and it was so attached to her, it followed her wherever she may go. Followed her to school one day, huh?

School one day and the teacher said, uh-uh, get that lamb out of here, you have to do your homework. But it was such a legendary moment that one of the people that witnessed this wrote a three verse poem about it later that day. And it was the original rendition of Mary Had a Little Lamb.

Wow. So, also another fun fact is that this song, Mary Had a Little Lamb, was the first audio to be recorded on a phonograph invented by Thomas Edison. Oh, my gosh, full circle. Also, side note, I know there's, like, a lot of dispute over who actually wrote the...

or, like, how that song came to be, just FYI, in case any historians are like, that's not real. I don't... Listen, I don't think anyone really knows, so don't yell at, I don't think anyone really knows. So don't yell at us. But that is- So in 1830, there was a girl named Sarah who claims that she wrote the original one. But this one, at least in Sudbury, Massachusetts, it is part of the full-blown documented legends.

documented legends, they have like apparently statues of or like like monuments elsewhere or plaques that state that this is the home of Mary Hattilow Lamb written by a guy named John Ralston who gave the scribbled poem he wrote to Mary. It's a whole thing. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. But if you live in Sudbury this is the real story. This is the real deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but if you live in Sudbury, this is the real story This is the real deal. We got you anyways, I thought it was very interesting that He the phonograph that he invented would lay the first song would be about a kid whose school he tried to set up electricity For like it's just like extra fun. That's very mind-blowing. I like it's very mind-blowing

Small world. Small world. Anyway, if you would like to see it, it is still there. It has its own Wikipedia page. Are we gonna go when we're there? Sure. Sure. You don't seem very excited about it. We can sing the song.

I can eat some lamb. Well let's not do that. No? Okay. Do you think they serve it there at the one room schoolhouse? I doubt it. No, but just for like the on the on theme, I'll find a restaurant. I'll eat some red horse.

Okay. And then we'll be even. Oh, if you have red horse, I'll have black horse. Perfect. Okay. And we can high five. But really, it's like high clop. Cool.

With our meals. Hmm. I didn't think it through. Do you eat the feet? I did not think it through. Anyway, so Henry Ford restores the Wayside Inn and reopens it as an inn. It's now a historic landmark. It has 10 guest rooms and a restaurant. It also hosts tours. It is apparently the oldest operating in left in the United States. Oh, and in its time, it has been visited by people such as President Washington,

President Coolidge, Charles Lindbergh, Thomas Edison, General Lafayette, the Rockefellers, I'm sure others since. And if you visit, you can still order a cup of koo woo. And, And if you visit, you can still order a cup of koo-woo. And now I'm going to mention the ghosts. So many people have reported experiences here. Many investigators have stayed the night. People have felt blankets get ripped off of them, just starting out hot. People have felt blankets get ripped off of them

while they're sleeping. So you can sleep here still. Okay, I'm sorry, I don't think I caught that. So I thought it was just still a restaurant. Yeah, so it has 10 guest rooms and a restaurant that you can still. Understood, okay. Wow, oh my gosh, okay, I kinda wanna go.

And you can have some coo-woo. Happily. Yeah, so as for the ghosts, there's a lot of people who've had experiences here. People have had blankets ripped off of them. Their doors will lock themselves from the insides so they can't get back into their rooms. Items will fly off of the kitchen shelves, but then gently land on the floor.

Oh, that's nice. Items will move on their own. People will hear voices. People hear footsteps. Equipment will drain and die. Curtains will open and close, windows will go up and down by themselves, faucets will turn on and off. Apparently there's a phantom cat. And people hear sounds in empty halls, including children running up and down the halls when nobody is supposed to be staying on that hall that night.

Mm-mm. One spirit has apparently rearranged coins on people's nightstands. I like that, That's cool. And one appears, one spirit appears as a green-orange set of lights that slowly flicker throughout the room and just moves throughout the room as a light.

That's pretty cool too. Apparently it's not very threatening, but it's like having fireflies in your room. Yeah, until it comes a little too close and you're like, okay. And then you're like, oh, fuck. Back off. Yeah. Like that was fun until it wasn't.

Until it wasn't. So many people have had experiences here that they began writing notes about their experiences and leaving them here. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And here's some factoid about the notes. Back in the 1950s, while this inn was open, the innkeeper used to try to make fun of it for the kids and would start hiding candy and treats in certain rooms

for kids to try to discover, like a treasure hunt. Aw. And would find candy, he would leave it in drawers and desks, and the kids loved this. Apparently, adults also loved it, too And so they it was like basically geocaching inside. I love that. Let's find the treasure. It's like an Easter egg hunt Well also like geocaching not only do you find things but you leave things for future people. Oh

People started leaving notes after finding notes. They started leaving notes for future guests. Oh, that's cute. It became this thing where they would leave them in really odd places. It became like they would leave them in not just bookshelves, but like in the rafters shoved into the ceiling beams. They would leave stuff like in the floorboards. They would leave things in pillowcases or behind the couch or

They would just leave notes everywhere for people to find and it became this thing at the at the end I kind of still a thing today really Mm-hmm. So I wonder if there's any from back then that have never been found Maybe like I could be they've never the 50s, you know, they've never fully pulled it all out So yeah, that's pretty cool or imagine you find a piece of candy from the 50s, you know? They've never fully pulled it all out, so yeah. That's pretty cool, or imagine you find a piece of candy from the 50s. Yeah, and it's like a, like very old. Well, now it's part of a rat's nest.

Yeah. Like for sure that brought in some mice, for sure. Or bugs, cockroaches, I don't know. So this activity of if you write a note and hide it somewhere, it became known as joining the secret drawer society. What? Ah! Ah! That's so cute.

Because most often the notes are left inside the drawers of the guest rooms for other guests to read when they get in. What a fun idea. And a lot of the notes are based on people's ghost encounters. Okay. To comment on the last thing you said, one of the oldest ghost stories that we've seen on the notes. Yeah.

I have to say the note is not from this time. The note was referring to a story from this time. Oh, okay. Okay. Before you get super jazzed. One note said that there, that ghost encounters have existed here since 1868. Wow. Because on this note, apparently someone in 1868 witnessed a ghost half floating and half

running through one of the old event spaces, and the story has been passed on since. Half floating, half running. But one of the oldest notes that was found to actually answer your comment is from 1973. Oh, that's pretty cool of dark shadows moving around a guest's room. That's what they saw. Oh, I don't like that Thousands of notes have been left throughout this building like thousands of thousands like so many like there and Like there's even a mega, what?

If you find one, do you like turn it in or do you like take it home? What do you do? I think it's just like, you just leave them for people to read now. Oh, you leave them there and you can add your own. It's not like take it and leave something else. I think it might've been originally,

but now it's just like part of the experience of getting to read everyone's past notes So you're not supposed to like take it I assume out of the I'm sure something people do but it's like it's essentially like a When you like a guest book gotcha. Okay. Okay. Oh, that's just in son There's even a mega size treasure chest full all the way brimming with notes Like there's just so many treasure chest full all the way brimming with notes. Oh my gosh. In one of the rooms. Like there's just so many. One paranormal team actually read through

a lot of the notes because they wanted to see how many were about ghosts. Sure. And this is interesting because it feels kind of like a bummer, but it's still interesting. They went through almost 4000 notes and found that 6% mentioned a paranormal experience, which still means hundreds of ghost experiences.

But only 6% out of 4000. Hang on, my TV is acting up. I don't know why. She decided. Oh, our tech today is having some up. I don't know why. Uh oh. She decided. Our tech today is having some problems. I know. I don't, no one asked for this.

Okay, anyway. Yeah, so 6% of 4,000 and that's not like all of the notes. That's just 4,000 as a sample. Oh wow. Okay. Geez. So if we're guessing 6%, then that means it's even more than, I don't know, like 300 ghost stories that have been written down. And that's just the ones that have been

written down. There's probably been several who weren't written down. True. Or the ones that have been left behind and not like taken, like with guests. Yeah. And I'm sure like famous people have left notes there and then people steal them, you know? So a lot of the paranormal occurrences do have to do with one specific ghost. I would argue that this place only has one ghost. Really? So active with one ghost, okay. And her name is Jerusha.

No way, she's back. That's like the scariest name a ghost can have, in my opinion. Jerusha Howe. I know. Like, Jerusha Howe sounds so frightening to me. I'm afraid of her. I hope that she's, um... a girly girl. Like, I hope that, like, we get along, because otherwise she is terrible.

It's like Bathsheba. Like... Exactly. There's something very, something very alarmist about that name. These days, if I met a Jerusha, I'd be like, I feel like you have a very interesting story. I was gonna say, tell me your story. That's what I would say, yep. I feel like you could drink any grown man under the table. Or you've never taken a sip of alcohol in your life. Bathsheba can fix your car and like better than anyone else.

I think she would just like... Bewitch your car. I mean that's probably why it works so well when she's done with it. Anyway, so a reminder of who Jerusha Howe is of all of the generations of Howes who ran the inn, the last ones were a brother and sister duo named Lyman, the squire of Sudbury, and his sister Jerusha. And Jerusha worked at the inn until her death,

which seems like it's around 1845. Okay. While she worked there, she was apparently a goddamn delight. Oh, okay. That changes it. All right. People loved her.

Men came in just to see her because her brother may have been the squire of Sudbury, but she was the belle of Sudbury. Oh, okay. She was apparently a hottie-pottie. And not only that, but she was educated, she was kind and she was talented and she was especially musically talented. She could sing, she could play instruments, she was the first person in town to own a piano. Oh my gosh, Jerusha.

And so I guess a lot of people in town were like, what the fuck is a piano? We got to go see this thing. And she would just and she would play it for the patrons at the inn. That's adorable. Do people still hear that? Piano music. Maybe Christine. When the inn began to suffer due to her brother's own issues, apparently he had like a drinking issue

and like he couldn't keep up with the inn the way that his parents could. I mean, imagine the pressure of being a fifth generation innkeeper. You have to fucking be good at it or else people are gonna laugh at you. Yeah, and you have to make it your own sort of in your own way and oof.

That's a lot of pressure, yeah. So apparently he was not doing very well. He was struggling under the pressure and Jerusha took over. She said, if a boy can do it, I can do it. Step aside. Yeah, exactly. So she has taken over the inn.

People just know her for her lovely piano playing. She had many suitors, none she was interested in. So at first I thought, at first I thought, gay. But just because I want it so bad, I just want her to be one of us, you know? Wouldn't it be nice? And maybe she was, but we never know. All that we know is that one day, while she's working there, a guest is staying at the inn for quite a long period of time because he's usually overseas in England, but they fall in love. And he, they are just smitten with each other.

At least that's how the story goes. But then he says, the classic, I mean, it's a hotel and the ghost is a woman. What do you think is about to happen, Christine? He says, I love you so much, but I have to go home for a minute and I'll return one day. Stop. Why do they keep doing this? I think he was just a fuck boy. I think he was like, while I stayed here, I was,

you know, doing that, you know, having a good time with one of the people who works here and now I'm going to go back to England and I'm never going to get caught. Um, but man, she fell for him. And so he goes back to England. I'm never gonna get caught. But man, she fell for him. And so he goes back to England with the promise of, I'm just gonna finish, you know, tie up some things there and I'll be right back. That's sad.

Homegirl waits for years. And by years, some stories say 44 years. Jesus Christ. Which can't be true because other sources say she died at 44 So let's just say like People heard 44 and didn't know what to do with it. So let's just say like max 20 years. Okay, gotcha But she waited for a long ass time for this man to come back Do you think like she had to have a girlfriend in town

who was like, it's been like 10 years, like get it together girl. I know, but sometimes you just can't fight that, you know? She would still every now and then have a dream about him and it would all start up all over again in her. And there's no closure, right? So it's like, oh, what happened? It's not like you got dumped and you say,

okay, I have to move on. It's like, well, there's always a chance he'll come back. And that, you know, it's really too bad. Well, so she waited forever. And she worked at the inn, I'm assuming she felt now an obligation to like not only her family of keeping up and in, but I can't leave because what if he comes back and he needs to find me? Oh, true. Now you feel almost like stuck. Oh, that's terrible. It's like those side things that, uh, that false promises lead to it's like, Oh, now you've trapped her. Like situationally you thought you would just go away and she'll forget about

you. And now look, now look, you've created a ghost. Good job. So, uh, yeah, she waits for him. Never. He never comes back and she dies at 44 from a broken heart In this story Again, we don't have a lot of evidence of it, but it has become It might as well be official documentation lore And it apparently especially blew up during the rise of the internet, I guess it helped market the inn as a haunted place. We don't have a lot of proof.

The only proof we have that people really ride hard on is that there are two diary entries that she left in her diary. And they are seemingly noticeably different compared to the rest of her writing because she's very flowery and you know very wordy but around the time that this guy would have been around two entries say a first introduction and that's it and then rid of that trouble. Oh! Shut the fuck up. Which, like, that sounds so girl boss, but also... I thought you were waiting for decades and decades for her.

I know, which is sad. It's like she was trying to manifest the, like, detachment, but couldn't really muster it. Yeah. It's like when you tell your friends, like, oh, I'm so over him, but, like, you do text him at night. I do. I was just reading, like, an old journal, which, by the way, make sure you're in the right headspace before you do that. I certainly wasn't. And I'm like skimming through like, this will be fun. And then I was just feeling terribly sad for my past self. And there was this one where I just gotten dumped

on a school night over the phone. And I was like, oh, it was a rough one. And I was like journaling and you could literally. It's not a joke, there were like tear stains like on the paper, but I was writing. I know it's really pathetic. And then I was writing him. Who are you, Jerusha?

I know, I was writing reasons why, like reasons why he was not a good match for me. But like, I was just trying to force myself to like think about bad things, even though I was like heartbroken, you know? So I can sort of see it being like good riddance, but like I was like heartbroken, you know? So I can sort of see it being like good riddance, but like you're still heartbroken, you know? I feel like that's definitely a thing.

Yeah, we've all been there. We've all been there. You can't just turn it off. Not after the throes of passion that she seems to have gone through. For sure, yeah, it sounds like her first love. Yeah, I mean, she was turning down man after man every night, and this was finally the one she like let in, you know, I mean, she was turning down man after man every night,

and this was finally the one she let in, you know? Oof, that's gotta hurt. So anyway, those are the two diary entries. And then after that, she started quoting a lot of really depressing poetry, so I guess between those things. Now Longfellow's entering the vocabulary. What's like, and it's so classic, like first love heartbreak where it's like rid of that trouble and then just like very long winded depressing poetry.

Why am I so sad? I can't figure it out. It's like, Oh girl, come on. Well so that's, that's all we have is that apparently at some point she got rid of some man and then she had a bout of sadness and people have turned it into this whole story. Okay, so literally those entries are all that we like, you're saying are all the concrete.

Okay, okay, so maybe she wasn't even sad and it's just become that story you're saying? Maybe she never even met a man, you know? Like maybe- Maybe the Good Riddance was just like a lamb that was following her around all day and she's like Fucking clingy ass lamb. Mary had a little trauma little

Jerusha Jerusha had a big fat problem and it was a man. So I feel like her I feel like the situation is that Back then especially I feel like all these men wanted her and she kept rejecting them. And maybe they could have just been like, oh yeah, she only doesn't want me because she's still pining over another guy. And like the story could have come out of anywhere.

Right, true, true. And it could have just come out of like people wanting it to be a little more romantic and flowery and tragic. Yeah, like she could have maybe, and I'm sure if you're working there long enough like there are rumors I hear that the flight attendant industry is quite a breeding ground for hookups breeding ground full stop Like I just think there's some industries where people just hook up with each other a lot

And I know the service industry is one of them, the food service industry. I have not been a part of it, but I have observed as someone who worked in the food industry. I love that none of this is from, this is the most M thing ever, because it's not from personal experience, but it's from like firsthand discussions with people with personal experience. I've seen enough to know enough.

And knows it all, yeah. I imagine even back then, like, hey, if you, I mean, one of the reasons reasons the flight attendant industry is like that is, like, it's so fleeting. You see someone and you're in another country, and, like, you never have to see each other again afterwards. It's got to feel kind of transito... Everything's kind of transitory.

Just whimsical. Yeah. And I imagine if you work at an inn where people are just passing through all the time and you may never see them again, like right there's gonna be moments and people are drunk and you know So maybe she just had a moment with a guy and people were like, oh she finally is Getting to know somebody and then it just worked out Anyway, it could be anything rumors rumors rumors But that's the legend we all know now of Jerusha's life.

She's just this heartbroken single woman who waited and waited for a man who never returned. Well, while she lived there, because she was family, she wasn't just the innkeeper. She was a family member who lived on the property. She lived in what is now room nine and also room 10. Those two rooms used to be the living quarters. She got a whole suite, the penthouse suite. I think one of the sources I read said that room nine used to be like three rooms that they put in, made into one or something, but blueprint theory,

room nine and 10, she would have been spending a lot of her energy. And so I wonder if that wall sees a lot of action, her walking through it, you know? Probably. And she has haunted many, many, many guests. I mean, remember how many people have written notes, and she might be the only ghost here. She haunts many guests, and most of them are men.

And the story does not make sense to me, but it is that she is still looking for her long-lost love and maybe men who look like him she is seducing or trying to reconnect with. But this is one of those stories of a female ghost who climbs into bed with men. Oh boy. So that's not cool. Yeah, so many men have reported feeling someone next to them in bed at night. Again, this is mainly in rooms nine or 10, but it could be really in any room.

Room four also seems to be a big one. Room nine is the most important one. But people say that they feel someone climb into bed with them, they feel someone holding them, cuddling them, touching their face, touching their arms, touching their legs, someone sitting on their bed and watching them. They see imprints in the bed of someone there.

Some have said that they even felt her breath on their face. They have felt that someone kissing their face. They have heard someone whispering to them. And, uh, one guy even said that when his wife got up to go to the bathroom, he felt a back rub from somebody. She's like, finally we got rid of her, am I right? Yeah, she seems to really be into like the married men especially.

Okay, because I was definitely keeping my mouth shut because I was like, okay, but I really want to ask like, before I forget, does she only do this to people who are alone? But I guess not. Like you don't have to be a single guy. Apparently more often than not, it's married men. Wow, okay.

I think it's all men, most men, but a lot of them are married. Okay, so maybe it's just more men are staying there with their partner, and that's why maybe? Yeah, I guess so. Weird. Yeah, right?

Like how many times are men actually going to inns because they're passing through town? Like, seeing by themselves, right? Maybe. Now they're like romantic B&Bs. Right. It doesn't seem like probably... You'd probably be at the Holiday Inn Express or something, you know, if you were just like traveling, business traveling.

So people also hear a woman crying. They smell citrus perfume, which apparently was what she, she wore like an orange blossom perfume. People feel something bump into them on the stairs. They see her walking by their bed at night. When these men are able to wake up or turn around fast enough, if they sense something, they will see her.

Like she's really there. Oh, sometimes just standing in the corner of the room watching them. Ooh, like waiting to crawl into bed. Oh no. And sometimes she immediately disappears. Like she's startled that she got caught. And other times it has taken up to 30 minutes

before she fades away from just standing and staring. Imagine that nightmare of like closing your eyes and being like, count to 10, say the Lord's Prayer, open your eyes, she's still fucking there, oh my gosh. I literally don't know what I would say. I know what I would do. I would get out my phone and be like, all right, I'll take a fucking picture,

because either I get a picture, something weird, or she's gone, and I'm happy, either way. I'd be like, girl, like, you're putting me through something. I need proof of this, so you're gonna stand still for five seconds and just let me get a picture. If you let me do that, great. If not, then get the fuck out. Right. Exactly. There is no I would do what you think is going to happen here tonight is not going to happen.

So either we do something different, like we just have like a hang bang, like a little sleepover. Yeah. Or get the hell out of this room. That's exactly it. I'm in 100% agreement. She's also apparently seen downstairs by the parlor fireplace, wearing a blue dress with a high collar, and it is very common for people

to still hear her piano music. Ah, okay. Sorry I asked early, I just got excited. I love the idea of music playing. We've seen that in a few places. I just think it's such a cool concept that music can like carry over. Like, well, if you would like to know exactly what type of music she, this is something I'm sure you could just YouTube. Megan, if you're feeling creative enough, you can find a way to insert music or something, but nope,

truly no pressure. Two of her most popular songs that she is known to have played is a song called The Battle of Prague. Whoa. So she played that music a lot. But she was also known to play another song called the Copenhagen Waltz. Oh, my gosh. Wow. She's a worldly gal. And by the way, I realized I said Megan and not Jack. I was wondering, but I was like,

maybe you mean a TikTok, I don't know. I don't know, we'll see, we'll see. If anything happens. Megan, fight to the death. Someone play the Copenhagen Waltz now or else it will be the Battle of Prague all over again. Not again, you know what happened last time. No idea what happened.

So yeah, those were her favorites to play on the piano. Those are the ones that people hear the most now. But even creepier, people swear that they wake up to the piano music playing in their room. So not like downstairs in the tavern and they hear a faint music. Like they hear it playing in the room. It's not like in the distance, like when you're hearing it and you walk in and it's empty and quiet.

It's like, oh, it's right here. It's like your nine-year-old cousin brought the keyboard up to your room and was like, here it is. Here's the, yeah, my nine-year-old cousin who loves to play the Copenhagen Waltz. It's his favorite song. Meanwhile, I'm like, may I?

You know what? Your fucking little sister absolutely would eat up the Copenhagen waltz. My mother would be like, I have a song for your toddler. Here it is. It's a battle of Prague. I feel like I've played piano. This is not a joke. I played piano for 17 years and I would probably be like, Mary had a... And I'd still fuck it. Little... No, that's not right. Like I wouldn't even be. Little, nope, that's not right. I wouldn't even be able to do that, let alone fucking. And also, how are these people, now I'm getting angry, how are these people even knowing what

song it is? How are they half asleep and they're like, it's right next to my bed. Is that the Battle of Prague I hear? Who the fuck knows that? Maybe some people do, but I don't think it's like a general knowledge, right? I don't know. I know Massachusetts is like one of the most educated states in the country.

Maybe it's just. I guess so. Maybe they're all just fucking smart, okay? And maybe that's why I'm so mad right now. Imagine you wake up the next morning, you keep just kind of humming this tune. You're like, I don't, there's something, maybe I had a dream.

There's something haunting about it, yeah. Like I can't get this song out of my head. I don't know what it is Like just something so old-school Anyway, um beautiful beautiful Yeah, so apparently people can tell or at least they remember it long enough to play it back later But it's not like you can shazam like the Copenhagen Waltz. I don't know Maybe you can listen. I wouldn't getagen Waltz. I don't know how people are figuring out. Maybe you can. Listen, I wouldn't get ahead of yourself.

That could be a fun little test next time you go to this place. You know how back in like the 90s, early 2000s, Target had in the music CD section, you could like press a button and hear the sample. I think about that a lot where you put on those headphones. I feel like those are so like out of style now, obviously, so discontinued, that they're probably cheap. I think the inn should buy two of them and just have the Copenhagen Waltz

and the Battle of Prague available for people to check. But then think about that fucking guy who's just gonna play it nonstop downstairs and you think you're hearing a ghost, but it's just the guy downstairs on the jukebox. Yeah, you're right. I feel like that would probably, and I mean, I don't know, maybe it would stir up

some activity because she'd be like, this is my favorite song. Oh God, imagine if it's nobody and she's just down there pressing the button over and over again. Well, okay, yeah, that's even worse. She's like, I figured out how to use a jukebox. It's like a dog learning like what, like to press the button for a treat.

It's like, god damn it. The Pavlovian, she's like, we it's like, I don't even have to play it to hear it now. Um, okay. So yeah, the creepier thing is that people actually hear it in their room instead of just off in the distance. Um, one investigator who stayed in room nine actually on camera around three in the morning, got a black mist coming out of the floor, leaning over him in bed, and then exiting the room via the wall,

just going through the wall. And then he- I love that she looked at him and was like, nope, fucking pull through the wall, Kool-Aid man out of there. I thought like, she's like, ooh, does he look like my lover? Oh, absolutely. So much worse than I could have imagined. Well then, apparently she still wanted to fuck with him because he then woke up to the

sound of piano music. Oh, so she wants to serenade him. Okay, I got it all wrong. And he, we even left the room to go downstairs to try to like follow the piano music and he gave up because it sounded so faint by the time he got down there that as he was climbing back up the stairs and going to his room he realized the music was the loudest from by his bed. That's scary. Yuck. So she was like really trying to get him in the in the zone you know what I'm saying. Woo him yeah. trying to get him in the zone, you know what I'm saying? Woo him, yeah. Speaking of which, I will end on this last section.

You know it's my favorite and I know it's yours, Christine. You want to give it a shot? Is it a Bagel Bites? Uh, hold on. Bagel Bites Sound Bites? I don't know. Yeah. Bagel Bites Sound Bites. I don't know. Oh my god, did they sound bite. Boop, boop. Boop, boop. I don't know. I'll think about it.

Oh my God. Did they play that on the jukebox in the end? No, but I just sing it and everyone says, please stop. Well, yes. Many have investigated The Longfellow's Wayside Inn, including Bagel Bites. And they investigated it in season 11. And Christine, the reason I said earlier, I know you, I know, you know, this place is because we have watched this episode many times. Wait, really? So this is Zach's special edition

Valentine's Day episode that he did. Oh, my God, of course. Of course. And they made it the Valentine's Day episode because they needed to use Jerusha's storyline, a failed love storyline, as the backbone of their romance episode. They're ridiculous. He's ridiculous. I can't imagine going somewhere knowing that, oh, there's a ghost who in theory, allegedly is just so heartbroken. And that's all this place is known for. It's haunted by a heartbroken girl.

So let's go there for our Valentine's Day episode and just really rub it on her face. And then let's harass the shit out of her. Yeah, exactly. Let's just rub it in how fucking dead and lonely she is. Wouldn't that be nice? But especially the dead part. Yeah, especially that.

Did you catch that? So they, and I know you've seen this, I'm just going to start saying things and you're going to start jumping on. I feel like I'm just going to hear it and go, oh no, oh no, I've blacked it all out. So go ahead. The episode starts with him and his ghost adventures crew sitting at a romantic Valentine's Day dinner together, acting very uncomfortable about the fact that it's three men at a table.

You guys, it's like no homo, no homo. Like, you guys need to watch it. It's so cringy. Like, I don't even know. Yeah, it's bad. I will tell you, this episode is not scary at all. No, it's ridiculous. But wow, is it easily the most slapstick comedy there's ever been in the Ghost Adventures world. It's honestly the funniest of them not trying to be funny

thing I've ever watched. It's really excellent. It's a bunch of teenage boys literally, like, kind of subtly saying no homo, while also trying to be funny for the camera. Um, and because this... It's also the most produced episode ever. And by that, I mean, like it is the most scripted, fake as shit. OK, I don't really remember the actual content, which is probably why.

Well, so and I'm not talking about the the the ghost part, but like the first 10 minutes of this episode is them sitting in the restaurant, and it's supposed to look like they're at a Valentine's Day dinner in this in this in. But keep in mind, they filmed this like eight months before. So it was like, I don't know, April or it was like it was like June when they filmed this. So it wasn't Valentine's Day. Also, the only way that you ever film a restaurant shot is if you have background actors, because there's no way they would get clear audio

in an actual busy restaurant. Very good point. I had literally never thought of that. It's just people mouthing behind them, talking. Like, it's the cleanest audio. All you hear is them. You can't even hear the creaky floors. Like, no, everyone there is a paid actor. I'm sure you told me that in the moment, but that would never have even occurred to me,

Amathy. That's so embarrassing for them. And they don't even like order food. And on top, because why would you? And on top of that, like, uh, everything they say is obviously scripted because it, it sets up the next beat, which is like, first, I don't know who was in charge of this episode. They really went on their fucking own. But this episode also has clips from talk show hosts making fun of Zach Bagans. Wait, really?

I don't remember that either. Chelsea Handler and Joel McKayle are making fun of him. Oh yeah. When they're all sitting at the table, they're very much talking about these moments to like lead into them. It was very odd. This is awkward. I feel like there was something where they just didn't know

what to do for that episode. And they were like, let's do this. Or they had like a new creative director, or I don't know what happened. I feel like something weird happened. I feel like something weird happened. I feel like a director with a new vision came on and I feel like the actual Ghost Adventures crew were texting each other behind the scenes being like,

this is such bullshit. This is not what we usually do. This is so weird. I bet Zach said, I need to go in a new direction and everyone else was like, oh, now he's gonna have to call the shots. I feel like this was his first foray into like directing and they were like, okay, I guess we gotta do what he says, he's gonna have to call the shots. I feel like this was his first foray into directing and they were like, okay, I guess we gotta do what he says.

He's a star. Yeah, well, so anyway, they're sitting at this dinner together. They're, it's weird to actually see them all lit up. Also like true, like another point that they're clearly, like it's all set up is that it's perfectly lit, but it's weird to see them not on infrared infrared it's weird to not see them in night vision true you get to see all their beautiful perfections yeah anyway so

they while they're sitting here and they're talking about love and romance because they're again they're setting up the storyline of a failed love okay so they're reminiscing on locations they've been to where other ghosts have been a little risque or like had been touchy feely or so it's just a compilation. They, they do like a, like a flashback montage and it's just a compilation of Zach saying wildly inappropriate things to people, which 10 out of 10 for, but like sexually, right? Like sexually, like yeah, like one of them is like there's like a ghost

Who likes to pinch butts and then he like tells one of the tour guides at a previous location like you're the perfect bait Like shit like that He's fucking creep Then they show the clips of like him being around like horny ghosts essentially. Joel McHale on the soup says that he's hitting on ghosts because he can't get a live one. Yikes. Oh God. Zach then sitting at the table, he wonders if any of the ghosts that have ever seduced

him were male. Again, right after this No Homo festival that he's joined himself into. And then he says this quote to Erin, he says, what if we really emphasize an entire lockdown on romance? What is it? He's like going through something. There's no way he has to be going through something because he's being real weird. Oh, it gets so bizarro creepy because he says, what if we really emphasize an entire lockdown on romance?

Again, setting up what this is going to be about. And Aaron says, oh, let's finally get some action. Yuck. And then Zach says, that's your Valentine's Day gift. And then they agree to compete for Jerusalem's affection. And then this is how he closes out the scene because this is a fucking scene. Let's be clear. And remember, these are all paid actors. Now that you know this, it makes it even worse because he absolutely just improv this in

front of people on camera. He stands up. This is him leaving the conversation with Aaron and Nick. He stands up, he makes everyone else stop eating and he like interrupts their Valentine's Day date. Again, they are not on dates, they're actors. But-

That changes everything. For the vibe, he's like, I know I just interrupted your Valentine's date, but, and I quote, there's a spirit here of a woman that is very beautiful. She's gorgeous. That is who my Valentine is. That's who I'm going to hook up with tonight.

Come on. I jail, prison, imprisonment. Fucking 25 to life. Are you kidding me? Go to fucking jail. What are you talking about? Stop it. The next scene.

Oh, I forgot. This is where I send you. Oh, there's a video forgot this is where I send oh there's a video this is where I send you I know this is this is going along but I promise you no I mean we both know it's so worth it I'm all in okay Geo's trio those where I send you a picture and a video don't worry about the video just yet okay but this picture is what comes up next after he has that whole speech about how he's going to hook up with Jerusha and he tells the entire restaurant about it. Then there's a scene of him pulling a rose out of his own jacket and flirting with the

camera. This picture. This picture. God help me. That's all for you, Christine. Frame it. That's terrible. It's terrible.

Next time Valentine's Day hits, I'm sending you a card with that picture on it. You better. If you don't, I'm actually going to be really pissed. So then don't forget after that, because that was just cringe-tastic. Like I moved away from the TV. I went, oh my God. A historian is around. Zach talks to this historian about the inn, but he doesn't talk to this historian about the inn. He talks to the historian about Jerusha and how fucking horny she probably is. This is so sick.

The historian tries to say that Jerusha fell in love with a sailor. He uses the word semen. And guess what? Zach cannot keep it together. I, this is a child. This is a child. It becomes a bit, it becomes a bit throughout the show that they cannot say the word semen without laughing.

Like they're literally like overgrown. Like, Jerusha, you love semen? That kind of shit. I mean, they're like literally middle schoolers, come on. Then he goes, he interviews a guy who has had an experience with Jerusha where like he felt something like touching his legs. Zach literally is like asking him if he's into it, if you like, and then even says, do you think single men come here because they have a phantom fetish?

And then the guy responded, not as classy as I would have hoped. He says, well, there's an old saying, if you find any given item in a Sears catalog, somebody somewhere will wanna have sex with it. What? Hello? There's a saying somewhere in my own intrusive thoughts that I should have kept quiet. There's a saying somewhere.

Oh wait, no. A Sears catalog and how people would have bang it? My intrusive thought being blurted aloud again. That's lunacy is what that is. Well, then Zach, that cuts back to the historian. Zach asks what he can do to win this competition against Aaron for Jerusha's affection. How can he charm Jerusha?

And this is where I would like you to play that video. The historian says, oh, you could you could happened to me. If I were a ghost, I'd be like, I'm here. I'm here. You got me. I was like, I'm here under duress. Please stop playing. Please stop singing.

I don't think that, that didn't play, right? Like through your, okay. No. Well, just FYI, it's literally it's literally Zach, like with no hint of irony playing a piano playing in quotations, a piano and singing along to sheet music that they show. And he's singing about like the spring and it is roses, roses. So yeah, but it's worse than like M spring. And it is- Roses, roses, so.

Yeah, but it's worse than, like Em can actually keep a tune somehow. This guy, oof-a-doof-a. And then you can see Aaron and Nick go, wait, is that Zach? And they're like in a different room. That's really good. I know that was probably produced too,

but man, that's a classic. That's a keeper. I gotta hand it to him. And imagine you doing that to a woman who is known to play piano. She's the first piano player of the town. Like you're the biggest mansplainer that ever lived if you're trying to tell... Like she plays the Battle of Prague and you're like, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, like hitting keys. I mean, it's embarrassing. Like you with your... Mary had a little lamb.

Yeah, exactly. Like I wouldn't even deign to do that on her piano but he's just gung-ho here I come. Yeah he sounded like the nine-year-old who brings the keyboard upstairs. He sure did actually he is that nine-year-old especially when he says oh do you like semen? He's a nine-year-old. Anyway here's my love song to you. Anyway I wrote this. Well speaking of writing, here comes the most classic clip of this, which I know you know very well. I didn't even, I'm not even sending you a video because I know you know it so well. He says, what if I can't, he talks to the historian again. He says, what if I tried singing and playing music and it didn't work?

What would be my next plan of attack to win her over? And the historian says, oh, you can write her some poetry. How did I forget about this? I literally said, you remember this. I'm like, I actually don't remember. Oh, I remember. So then Zach writes her poetry. Um, and if you have seen this episode, you know, if you've seen the clip because it goes around all the time online, it is him reciting poetry that he wrote

and then immediately slipping on ice and getting the wind knocked out of him. And just so we all know what the poem was, because he was apparently writing it, he said this to Jerusha. He said, "'You are like the sunshine of my eyes, "'because when I look at you, I'm surprised.

"'Your smile glows like snow.'" And then he said, "'Jerusha, your smile glows like a butterfly. Butterflies don't glow, my friend, but okay. None of that means anything. And then she shoved him and he fell over. That's what we like to think. She said, please stop doing that. And then just to really-

This is where Henry Wadsworth Longfellow was inspired and you're sitting there writing fucking, you look like a butterfly that glows. This is where Mary had a little lamb. This is where Mary, the first Mary had the first lamb and you're over here. The audacity is out of control. This is the place of not just the Black Horse Inn, but the Red horse in and

You Dane you day have fucking nerve And then just to like really steal my opinion of him To practice his flirting for the night before the investigation starts, he decides he's gonna walk around the restaurant and start flirting with some of the guests at the end. This part I remember really clearly for some reason. My favorite one is the guest who,

as soon as he approached her, she literally throws her hands in the air and walks away. She literally is like, please don't come near me. She's like, I'm one of the paid actors in the background, the extras, and I don't even want to be part of this. I'm sorry. Well, apparently, guess what he's quoting to her. He's quoting apparently, I think Shakespeare,

but someone also said that he's quoting Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Like on his- Oh, for God's sake. Lick. Anyway, before the investigation, he shows off- At least have the fucking strength of your convictions and read your own goddamn poem to people. Yeah, be brave zach you can do it come on then he shows then the lockdown is about to happen he shows what equipment they're going to use and he shows off the spirit box and

he says and i quote in a very creepy voice i'm gonna take this in with me when i jump in her bed. Okay. Wow. And then, surprise, surprise, by the end of the episode, he has felt something touch him. And after all that big talk, I'm gonna jump in her bed. How do I woo her over? I'm gonna win her and Aaron's not gonna get her and that's gonna be my Valentine's Day gift. Ha ha ha. He feels something touch him. And the first thing he says is, I don't want you thinking that I came here for some kind of booty call.

Ah! So he's now playing absolute fuck boy. Now he's gaslighting the shit out of her just like her real lover did. So fuck you, Zach. You're literally just playing the cycle over again. He then says, oh, the worst part too is he even says at 1.2, Jerusha, I am your, your lover. I've come back.

So now he's like, stupid, like, what are you talking about? Um, but he, oh yeah. So he, throughout the episode, uh, the most interesting thing is the spirit box. Like, there are a few times, like, they got EVPs of a woman who says, they look strong. So maybe she was into it. Oh, OK. All right.

When he asks for his name, you hear the name Zach. When he's sitting on the bed, the ovulus says, gentle and lay. And then when Zach says, if I lay down what are you gonna do to me the ovula says tickle and then he said talking about Nick who's married he said what would happen if Nick laid down on the bed and then the ovula said a fair you know what if she's one thing, she's confident. She has a voice. She knows what she's saying. Anyway, so they got some other stuff too, but I just think that was my personal favorite

evidence that they got. And but yeah, so all of a sudden, I don't know where he's like, well, I don't know, you don't have to touch me. Nothing has to happen. I don't know about that, blah, blah, blah. He ends by telling Jerusha, I just want to see where we go in the next part of life and to see if you can still love on the other side. And then later on reflects on the experience and says, I visualized a woman leaning over and putting two hands on top of my legs and

in a sick weird way. I was really, really intrigued by it. I felt like I was being teased, and in all honesty, I wanted more. I'm staying in room nine again tonight, and those cameras aren't allowed." And that's how it ends. Thoughts? Compliments? Concerns? No thoughts. No thoughts. Just... disappointment. I feel bad that I spent the last 15 minutes

just spoiling the entire episode, but we did need to discuss it. And people would have wanted to know what we thought of all that. And it's just the most brazen episode of- It's an outrageous, it's outrageous. I don't know. I feel like the thing of, I was intrigued,

it's like, first of all, don't act like this is some shock. You've literally been running around all day saying, you're going to fuck a ghost. So don't be like, oh, the weirdest thing happened. I'm intrigued by it. Also- He literally said earlier in the walkthrough, he said, if something happens, I'm open to it.

Exactly. He literally said it. So I don't know what's supposed to be so surprising. Grody is what I have to say. Also, like he's going to get a fucking incubus situation. I guess maybe he wants that, I don't know. Well, that's what they were talking about at that, in the dinner part,

when they were reflecting on past experiences, they talked about a time where he was touched by maybe an incubus, maybe a succubus. Apparently, he doesn't know, he didn't know the difference in the episode where it happened. And he kept an incubus, maybe a succubus. Apparently, he didn't know the difference in the episode where it happened, and he kept saying incubus, maybe it was a succubus. But also, we don't know the gender, we don't know who this was,

because the only difference between an incubus and a succubus is if it's male or female, and he didn't know, but I guess a lot of people ripped into him saying it was obviously a succubus, but then he countered with, well, how do I know if the ghosts seducing me how do I know if they're male or female? Yeah I mean unless you have an idea like unless you get the knowledge from somewhere but yeah who knows. Anyway. It sounds like he's into it. Anyway that's one of my favorite topics I think I've covered for a while. That was a really good one.

That was a really good one. I am honestly really shocked that I didn't see that ending. I mean, I'm not shocked because I don't think I paid much attention to where they were in that episode. I was so taken by the horrors of their behavior. But wow, yeah, that was a good episode, folks. If you need like something to make you yeah, that was a good episode. Folks, if you need, like, something... to make you laugh...

Like, I know that I just told you everything that happens, but the reason I said I know Christine knows this episode is because her and I have watched it so many times, regardless of knowing what happens. Like, it's a great episode for comedy. Yeah, it's just sometimes I'll be drunk and it'll just be there, because I think Em pulls it up, and I'm like, ah, my old friend.

It's really delightful. It was one of those things where it always plays in the background and I don't think I've ever actually watched it all the way through until this time. And so, but I always know it as the one where he like wipes out and like. I mean, the poetry and then the falling down and the piano and the singing,

you need to go watch it folks. It really is like, it'll lift your spirits. I mean, we're making fun of the singing, folks, you need to go watch it, folks. It really is, like, it'll lift your spirits. I mean, we're making fun of the fact that, like, maybe there was a new director on set who was coming up with, like, some real wacky moves, but he made some good calls also. Like, it was a pretty good episode. Oh, yes. Like, entertainment value?

Up here. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. And you know what? Especially since the inn is a house of entertainment. Listen, they nailed it. There's layers everywhere, folks. Wow, it's so deep. Who would have thought?

Nice work. Thank you. All right, so I have one for you today. This one is a doozy. It's kind of made me feel a little fucked up for the last couple of days, so good luck to all of you. I apologize in advance. As far as content warnings today, we're going to be discussing racism and rape. Woo! Here we go.

Oh, shit. Yeah. I'm just going to dive into it. So, first character I'm going to introduce you to today is named Anthony Broadwater. He was born in Syracuse, New York, where he grew up the fourth of six brothers. He was known as Tony. He was a very fun person to be around. He was the kind of kid who never got in real trouble, but was always causing like a little bit of mischief. For example, he once got stopped for driving down the road with a bunch of other neighborhood kids on the roof of his car, just silly stuff like that where he was kind of a memorable guy, but not, you know, really running in like bad circles. He mostly stayed out of trouble. He spent a lot of time in the Boys and Girls Club at a local recreation center. He met a lot of people through Boys and Girls Club that he ended up becoming, you know,

he became part of their community. And meanwhile, his father was working at Syracuse University as a custodian. And Anthony, even though he could have hung out on campus because that's where his dad worked, it felt like black people were not quite welcome. That's how he felt about it. It was like, even though we're in the same community

and my dad works there, like that's not my place to hang out, I don't feel comfortable. So he didn't spend a whole lot of time there. When Anthony was five, he and his brother Wade experienced a pretty major tragedy when they found their mother dead on the couch. She, yeah, she had had pneumonia and unfortunately passed away while they were out. And so they found her that way. And because they lost their mother, they ended up living

with several different relatives after her death. And even though this is a very early and very major trauma for him, he remained very open and kind and fun-loving. He was very popular in high school, he excelled in sports, he was a member of the wrestling team, but when he was 17 a recruiter for the Marine Corps convinced him to leave high school and enlist in the Marines instead. And this was pretty appealing to him because he felt like he wanted to see more of the world. He wanted to grow as a person and better himself. So he agreed. He took the recruiter up on this deal and he boarded a plane from Syracuse, New York to California.

So he entered the Marines. He worked hard. He spent time stationed at Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms. But at one point he developed a cyst in his wrist that was really uncomfortable and made it almost impossible for him to properly serve. So he was discharged and granted disability to support himself.

And when this happened, he decided he was gonna move back to New York because his father was getting older and also was diagnosed with stomach cancer. So he decided to move back to New York because his father was getting older and also was diagnosed with stomach cancer. So he decided to move back to New York to care for his father. And in the fall of 1981, as he was working for a telecommunications company where he would essentially install phones in people's homes. And one day as he is doing his rounds and installing people's phones, he has an encounter that would unknowingly change his life forever.

Oh, sure. Yeah. So Alice Sebold is our next character and it's almost like two separate worlds, two separate people. They have not crossed paths yet. Alice Sebold, she was born in Madison, Wisconsin in 1962, just a few years, a few years younger than Anthony, although she would not, like I said, meet him for a long time. Her parents were both academics. Her father had a PhD from

Princeton and she was the second of her parents' two daughters. Alice and her sister Mary spent a lot of their childhood caring for their mother who struggled with alcohol use disorder and severe anxiety depending on whether she was in recovery or not. And they also went through quite a lot of trauma in addition to that in that their family often had to move for their dad's, you know, transition to different universities, new jobs, promotions, and they would basically be like, there would be upheaval in the family, in the household, every time they had to move to

a new city or state. And as they grew older, Mary started burning out on care taking for their mom, but Alice, the younger one, kept it up. And the two of them became kind of, I don't know the right word, kept it up. And the two of them became kind of, I don't know the right word, embittered toward each other, maybe. Just resentful toward one another. They had a very strange relationship. They argued often over extremely small things like, I mean, this is familiar to me, the definition of a word, semantics, you know, that's usually how my brothers and my arguments started. So I get it. But I think underlying that usually there's a lot of other issues. So Alice felt very, very, very pressed. She was under a lot of people's shadows. She felt like her academic and intellectual expectations from her family were like oppressive.

And she felt like she was in her older sister's shadow. And like her dad, meanwhile, is a professor and has a PhD and her sister's thriving. And she's just feeling completely like overshadowed. She once actually said she was happy to be the moron of the family because it was more fun that way. That's how she perceived herself. Her father was working at an Ivy League school by the time that she was applying to colleges. And to add onto her complex, I guess, she did not get accepted to the school

where her father taught. So that- I'm sure that just only made her double down on like- Right? It's gotta feel bad if you're already feeling insecure about that. And to make the jokes of like, I'm the town idiot in the house. Yeah, yeah.

Like just, yeah. Yeah, that's, yeah. There's definitely some stuff she was dealing with so she didn't get into the university so she decided to go to syracuse university so now you see how we're kind of uh-huh crossing which by the way still a great fucking school so i feel bad that she i couldn't get into syracuse yeah i was gonna say that they have like a great writing program i think they're uh and journalism they're there That's a really good school. Yeah, so she you know Her dad has a degree from Princeton and is teaching at an Ivy League and she gets into Syracuse and is the town moron

So it's like hmm. Everything's relative. I guess So in 1980 she moves to New York She moves to attend Syracuse University and she gets through her freshman year. And at the end of her freshman year, she's walking home alone one night through a pedestrian tunnel in town when she hears footsteps coming up behind her. We know where this is going. A man overtook her from behind, wrestled her to the ground, knocked her head repeatedly

against the concrete until she stopped struggling. He then raped her and then beat her and left her alone to fend for herself. She managed to get up and get back to her dorm room where another student saw her injuries and called an ambulance. And at the hospital, she agreed to a rape kit, even though this was before, this was a time before DNA evidence was used in forensics, but eventually it would be. So she went through with the rape kit. Her clothes were filthy with mud and leaves.

She had a big gash on her nose. There was blood in her urine. It was it was really, really rough. And very brutal. And when the police arrived at the hospital, they asked her obviously to describe her attacker. And she said, he was a young black man around her age with a small and muscular build.

This, you know, I feel like the, this is sad, but I feel like the wish is like, I'm trying to think of the right word, the ideal mindset I wish I could have with this is like, wow, this is so shocking what I'm about to tell you, but like, it really doesn't shock me at all. And so I feel like a lot of the sources were like inexplicably and I'm like, it's perfectly explicable to me, but the police officer doubted Alice's story and put that in the report and said the report recommended that the report be referred to the inactive file, like just right off the bat. Like blood in the urine, face smashed in by concrete. Nothing to see here.

Nope, nope. Anyway, she's probably lying. It's just so horrifying to me. So she went home for summer break. What a fun way to start the summer, plagued by a very, very traumatic incident. And then on top of that, the feeling that nothing would be done

and nobody cared, right? Yep. And so she sort of had her entire worldview flipped, which obviously I understand. She saw violence everywhere. She no longer felt safe. She almost felt like the world was like a different color, almost like things just weren't the same.

And her parents, unfortunately, even though, again, not totally surprising, they didn't quite support her in the way that she needed. They didn't really understand like how traumatic it had been for her, but she did fall into a pretty severe depression. And they tried to convince her to move at least to a smaller college close to home, but she refused. She wanted to stay at Syracuse. She was enrolled in writing classes taught by writers that she admired and she didn't want to give that up. So she went back.

She went back to school in New York for her sophomore year where Alice's instructors helped her explore and kind of get through her trauma with writing and poetry. And I hear like writing and poetry about like dealing with trauma. And then I watched that clip of Zach Bagans playing the dumbest song on the piano. You glow like a butterfly. You glow like a butterfly.

I'm like, oh boy, wow. There really is like a spectrum to art, isn't there? There. Yes. Yes, yes there is. So she's working through, which is kind of a great, since her family wasn't supportive, I'm at least glad that her professors were like, hey, let's work through your trauma together.

Like, yeah, that's a great thing. And good for her, like saying like, I'm not going to move back home of like, I mean, some people have to, but for her, I like that she was like, I'm going to reclaim this space, like I'm not gonna get scared out of exactly. I totally agree. And I kind of like the idea that she recognized my family is not helping me heal. Like, they're not giving me any support that I need. Yeah. Why would I? Why would I want to say? Right. Exactly.

So she went back. She's working through a lot of the emotions and the memories of the rape. Then we fast forward to October 5th, 1981, which is, I would say probably like a year-ish later. She's walking down the street when she is stopped in her tracks. She sees a young man and she recognizes him. It's her rapist.

She later wrote, I went through my checklist, right height, right build, something in his posture. And he called out something along the lines of, don't I know you from somewhere? Oh! And she knew in her heart that that had to be the guy. Wow. So she was absolutely petrified.

She walked away without responding and she could hear him laughing behind her. So her immediate... Oh, so it was like a joke to him. It wasn't like... I thought he said that like genuinely thinking, oh, maybe I know you from a party or something. But no, he did it just to absolutely torture her. Hold that thought.

So she went to one of her instructors on campus and said, you know, I've just seen this and what do I do? And the instructor says, you have to call in a report. So she rushes to her dorm, she draws a sketch of the man's face and she calls the police. Now, the officer she spoke with, his name was Paul Clapper, and he recognized

the man in Alice's description. In fact, he had actually just been speaking to this guy. The alleged attacker was 20-year-old Anthony Broadwater, who had once lived in a neighborhood where this officer, Paul, used to patrol. And incidentally, just shortly before this call came in, Officer Paul Clapper was walking down the street and this guy, Anthony Broadwater recognized him and said, hey, don't I know you from somewhere? What? Okay.

Basically what happened is Paul was standing directly behind Alice and Tony Broadwater saw the officer and said, Oh, don't I know you? Because he used to patrol the neighborhood where Anthony grew up. And so Alice had already been petrified seeing him thinking this is her attacker. And then he says this, not to her, but he didn't even see her. But he, the perspective wise, she thought it might have been to him. The perspective was that she thought he was definitely speaking to her and she was petrified, understandably. And so officer Paul, just the weird speaking of small world, right?

Like I know, like you actually accidentally run into the person he was talking to. Yeah, so weird. And so Paul had been standing behind her. She thought Anthony was addressing her, but in reality, Anthony hadn't even noticed she was there. But Officer Paul was like, oh, I know that guy from your description. And because nobody ever mentioned the whole line of like,

don't I know you from somewhere, he was arrested. And he was brought in and was now suspect number one in a brutal rape case. So the police brought Alison to identify her assailant from a five man lineup. And according to the American Psychology Association APA, I just want to add this in here, researchers have reported that mistaken identifications are the leading cause of wrongful conviction. And in a 2008 analysis of 200 convictions later overturned by DNA evidence, which is way more accurate, nearly 80% of these overturned convictions included at least one mistaken eyewitness. So essentially, witness testimony has fucked over a lot of people.

So there was, at the time at least, no regulated research-based procedure for a lineup. You know how when you watch like SVU and they're like, you can't say anything and all this. Those rules were not in place yet and there was no real regulation. And so basically a lineup at a police station was just operated however the individual department wanted it to. So there was not really much like, there was just, let's just say a lot of room for error.

So they bring in these five guys and Anthony was number four. Alice identified her attacker as number five, which is already odd because she actually did see Anthony in the street, right? Like she had seen him and she had even sketched his face, but in the lineup, she actually did not recognize him and instead implicated a totally different guy. Oh, weird, okay.

So according to a form Alice signed confirming the identification, Anthony Broadwater was not the man who attacked her because she had not identified him. But the assistant district attorney, Gale Ueblhor, Uebler? Uebler, let's say Uebler. Curl.

Uebler. Gale. Curl. ADA Gale. The big G. The big G shocked Anthony and his lawyer later that day by deciding to present a case against him to a grand jury. Wow.

Even though he was literally not identified in the lineup. She just believed a victim. She just said, I betcha he did it. I think that was him. Oh, wow. She just went off her full-ass gut. She was quite... I guess, but also they... Well, they have the photo, the drawing that she drew.

Maybe the drawing looked like a really good match to Anthony. I don't know. I don't know what the thought process... And Gail was like, we're not letting him get away. Maybe that. Yeah, yeah. I don't totally know. But what was even more shocking is the grand jury gave a go ahead to proceed with the case against Anthony with, like we're saying now, seemingly no evidence except like a sketch. So at that moment, unbeknownst to him, Anthony fell into a waking nightmare that would last decades. Decades?

Yeah, unfortunately. As the case proceeded, Anthony couldn't remember where he had been or what he was doing when Alice was raped months earlier. I mean, I don't think if someone gave me a random day in month, even if I looked at my calendar, I don't know what I was doing unless I looked at my iPhone and it like gave me some picture memory, a picture, right, right, which obviously did not exist back then. So as the case proceeded, he was unclear where he had been, but he told investigators, I know I wasn't doing that. So he's like, I'm innocent, but I can't answer

like where I was or what I was up to that day specifically. So that's already kind of a kick for him. Like a, what do you call it? A bad sign? I don't know. ERIK I bad sign. JILL Meanwhile, Alice was being coached to believe that Anthony was the man who raped her, right? Because they're building this case and they're like, we need you to understand that is the guy who did it. Like you got it right the first time. that's definitely him. And so she's getting coached into what to say,

what to think. And witnesses to the event said that Alice on top of that didn't really have any support from her family. What else is new? When she updated- So she's totally on her own. She can't even, she doesn't even know her left from her right.

Right, she's basically kind of floundering and she's already been through this traumatic ordeal. Then she believes she's... Then now she's wrapped up in this legal system and these attorneys are telling her what to think, what to feel, and she doesn't really have any other sounding board, right? So it's not like... I don't know, she didn't have that support system. When she updated her family about the case, it was as if they didn't, she described it as like they just didn't connect to her or what had been done to her. Like they just didn't really seem to care that much. At the trial itself, her father actually sat out in the lobby reading a book most of the

time and her mother actually never came to the trial. Like beyond, I don't even know what the right word is. Just like neglectful toward, emotionally neglectful. I don't know. It's really fucking sad. It's really sad. It's like, that's just like perfect recipe for me to never talk to you again.

Right, right. Well, you can fuck right off. Or just for like a very codependent fucked up relationship, you know? Yeah. Like I don't know which way it would go, but... So later, Alice wrote, quote, My own father, who has spent his life working with young people, confessed to me that he did not understand how I could have been raped if I didn't want to be.

What? Mm. Mm-hmm. Can... Can you say that again? My own father who has spent his life working with young people Confessed to me that he did not understand how I could have been raped if I didn't want to be Death. It's a toughie. This is a toughie. Yeah And as we can probably see, guess who she turned to instead

for support and guidance? The big G. ADA Gale. The only person looking out for her. Exactly. ADA Gale wants to nail this guy, wants to get justice. Like, obviously, very misguided justice, because, spoiler alert, this is not Anthony, but, you know, essentially, like, she's the only one

vouching for her, like, championing her, and like she's the only one vouching for her, like championing her. And of course she's going to turn to her for guidance. Like what else is she going to do? And Gail and the investigators essentially became her moral support, her champions, but Gail unfortunately prioritized this whole trial, right over actually helping, uh, Alice because Gail lied to Alice saying that Anthony had asked his friend in jail to stand next to him and stare Alice down in an attempt to intimidate her.

Uh, which is not true. Basically she's just trying to to instill fear in her and say, like, he has his plan, he's bringing his friend. Which, by the way, a man who's in jail doesn't get to go... This is in the lineup, by the way. I'm so sorry, I forgot to specify that. Oh, okay. Basically, what they're saying is...

He brought his friend in jail to the lineup to stand next to him. Okay. And that's why she picked number five instead of a number four. Okay. Interesting. You know, it's bullshit. It doesn't, it's not even true.

That's not how lineups work, right? You can't just be like, oh, my friend in jail wants to come to the lineup. Can he come? Like what? That's not how that works. Yeah. I mean, maybe it could. I have an extra ticket if you want to come on in.

Right? It's bizarre. And it's like, what? So they gave him like a field trip pass, a hall pass from jail to come be in the- An immersive experience. An immersive experience of a lineup. Yeah, it's so odd.

And so she made up this lie, right? And of course, like, it's not like they even, it's not like somebody in a lineup who's a potential suspect even decides where they stand. Like that's just right. Also, the fucking like mirror, they don't see you anyway. So it's like, oh, they were staring you down and intimidating you. And that's why you were shaken. And that's why staring you down and intimidating you. And that's why you were shaken. And that's why the ID was wrong, you know? Yeah. And so it's just all a bunch of bullshit.

And she told Alice, of course you chose the wrong one. He and his attorney worked to make sure you'd never have a chance to select the right guy. Like he was in makeup or something. Yes, right. It's like, what does that even mean? But she was, I guess, so convincing that Alice started to believe it.

And according to Gail, Anthony's friend also looked just like Anthony. And that's why it was so confusing that she misrepresented, you know, she misread this guy for this guy because they looked so alike. And that's why Anthony had chosen him to come to the lineup to fool Alice. Okay.

What a web of explanation. Yeah. You can't even begin to untangle that. Like that, what, where do you even start? That's, it's lunacy. I tell you. It's just pure lunacy. So to make matters worse, Anthony wasn't only, wasn't only, it's like double negative, not only was Anthony not friends with this guy who was number five, right? He'd never met this guy. So just like, ever.

So just to clarify for everybody who's like, well, maybe that's how it works at this police station. No, it turns out Anthony Broadwater literally never met that guy in his life and didn't know him. So that theory or that big fat lie from Gail is out the window. Really is messy.

Gail is messy and it's pissing me off because this young woman is looking to her for guidance, for support, for somebody who believes her and cares. And Gail is using that vulnerability to just get her case won. It's so fucked up. Yeah, it's like she's got a real axe to grind. She doesn't care how it happens. Yeah. And she's like, I know what'll work. I'll use like the weakest link here. Who's leaning on me.

But the one who's 100% vulnerable and relying on me. And she's my chess piece and and I'm gonna use her. I mean, it's really like... I'm sure it happens all the time, but it's just so blatant and twisted that it really pisses me off. So, I mean, this is probably pretty clear by now, but Anthony did not plant anyone in the lineup,

even... not that he even could have, but he did not plant anyone in the lineup to intimidate Alice, but the case still went to trial. So Anthony's defense team thought a bench trial would be the best chance at exoneration. And that's where the verdict is determined by a judge, not a jury. So they were thinking, of course, a jury is going to be biased, likely to be all white, and the defense already knew the optics of a young black man being accused of raping a young white college student with an affluent background.

Seen it time and time again, this trope. Don't even need to go there, but hopefully you all know the history of that dynamic. And it was also mentioned multiple times in the case and trial that Alice had been a virgin when she was attacked, which obviously not relevant because rape is rape. Doesn't matter whether you're a virgin or not, but also they used it as sort of a value system. You know, they were saying, of course, this is a virtue of, you know, they weren't saying it

outright, but they knew people would take it as a virtue, something... Or that he stole something from her on top of it all, yeah. It's like she's more innocent because of that, you know, they use that... They knew what they were doing, right? Like, they use that to their advantage in the case. And it came up again and again. And on the stand, Alice was questioned about the fact that she identified a different man in the lineup.

She identified number five, even though Anthony was number four. And she said on the stand, Five did look at me almost in a way as if he knew me, even though I realized he really can't see through the mirror. I don't know. I was very scared, but I picked five basically

because he was looking at me and his features are very much like number four. So basically she's kind of like repeating the story that Gail gave her without outright saying, Gail told me that he brought in a friend, you know? She's like, oh, this guy was just staring directly at me and intimidating me and he looked just like number four, which is what Gail told her. So she basically perpetuated that lie, not knowing that it was a lie. And she was asked if she was absolutely sure that Anthony was her real assailant. And she said she could not be certain.

Wow, she's really like almost trying to help him at this point. Oh, like, I don't know. She's just being honest, right? She's like, I can't be 100% sure. She said, no, I am absolutely not, or sorry. She said, no, I am not absolutely sure. It was between four and five,

but I picked five because he was looking at me. So- Which is like such an arbitrary decision. Arbitrary. Like, some, if this were an episode of Law and Order SCU, they would say that this case is getting thrown out. Yeah, mistrial. Yeah.

And it's, yeah, it's pretty shocking. The racial disparity in the courtroom, of course, was very obvious. Anthony's defense pointed out that Anthony was the only person in the room who was not white. Oh, great. Yeah, talk about an uphill legal battle. In a story on the case, the New York Times reported studies have shown that roughly a third of eyewitness identifications

are incorrect and that when the defendant and the witness are not the same race, the witness is 50% more likely to be mistaken. So it's harder if they're someone of a different race to be certain of their features of what you saw, 50% more likely to be mistaken eyewitness ID. It's just crazy. Gayle, however, the ADA, insisted that Anthony and the man Alice identified looked nearly identical, but it was later considered racial bias that just assumed all black men look alike, you know. Of course. On the stand, Anthony maintained his innocence.

Of course, he insisted he had never once encountered Alice and was addressing Officer Clapper the day she thought he spoke to her. And the officer said, yeah, that's true. I was behind her and he was talking to me. So that has finally come out and you'd think, oh, okay, all this gets cleared up. But no, of course not. He does go on though. He's trying to trying to fight for himself.

He says, what about these scars? He has two scars on his face. He has a chipped tooth and they're extremely distinct features. And he says, why weren't those mentioned in any of the descriptions if I was her attacker? And surely he thought if she could positively identify him from previous encounters,

she would have remembered those very obvious markings on him, especially when she sketched a drawing of him for the police. So a forensic hair analyst testified that a pubic hair discovered when the hospital collected a rape kit from Alice was consistent with a pubic hair taken from Anthony. And this is all junk science, bunk science, okay? This hair matching hairs to hairs, that's not how this works. You can get DNA off of hair, but this was several years before DNA was first used in a trial, so it just was not here.

It's just bunk science. There's no real way to actually say these two pubic hairs, come from the same person, because they might just look the same and have the same texture. That doesn't make it 100% certain that this hair comes from that person. But they accepted it as admissible evidence. So they said, yep, we found his hair. During a recess, the judge spoke personally with Alice and he had four daughters. He asked her about her life, her upbringing, her father's profession,

and it would later be reported that he was basically acting fatherly toward Alice, right? Like he kind of, he felt for her. And there are no reports on the judge asking Anthony any questions about his family or his upbringing. So clearly he's already making up his mind here. After just two days of trial, the judge declared Anthony guilty and sentenced him to eight to 25 years in prison for the rape.

Wow. This is all because Anthony walked down the street one day and said hi to someone he recognized. Like, that's how quickly it unraveled, and it's just the scariest thought. It's just a terrifying thought that it could happen to anyone, especially the more marginalized you are that like just doing nothing at all, you could, it could be today

that your life changes. And if it flies in the face of all those arguments like, well, crime rate, it's like Skittles, hoodie, walking down the street in the middle of the day. Come on. Come on. So Anthony, of course, was numb with shock. His friends and family couldn't believe it. They knew he was innocent and were so confident that they hadn't even like gone to the trial because it's two days and they were like, oh, like,

there's no way like he has nothing to do with this. So when they found out that he had been sentenced to jail, they were shocked. Of course, he appealed the decision, that was denied. Alice was never informed of his appeal and she was determined to move on with her life and leave the rape and the trial behind her. So basically once that was done and dusted,

she kind of wanted to just move on. In prison, Anthony would face traumatic violence. He was targeted because of his status as a sex offender. He said, quote, I would try to prevent some incident by asking, hey, who's the head of the Latin Kings? Who's the head of the Aryan nation? Listen, they need to read this. Basically, he was asking the gangs at the various prisons he was transferred into to read his court and appeal documents and hope that somebody would sense the bias in the trial and conclude he was innocent. Wow, he was really doing work even on the inside.

He was! He was like grassroots doing it. Yeah, very grassroots. He's like, where's the head of the Latin Kings? I'm doing a project right now. Which I love that, like, did he not get his, like, ass beat up by, like, all... Oh, he sure did. Oh, he did. Okay. I was like, this is so bull.

But also that goes to show, like, how desperately he wanted it. It's like, beat the shit out of me. I don't care. I just need to know. He's like, I need to prove my innocence. And he apparently once protected himself with a baking tray in the prison kitchen while his close friend was murdered next to him.

Oh no. Just a very, very traumatic, traumatic time. Finally, an imam who's someone who leads prayers in Islam, read his appeal documents, which he had been trying to get everyone to read. And he read this aloud to other men and they started approaching Anthony with sympathy, agreeing, you know what, it looks like you don't belong in prison. Meanwhile, on the outside, Alice was still struggling with her trauma. After graduation, she lived in low income housing. She began using heroin. She was really struggling to regain some normalcy in her life. Then in 1989, she was teaching a composition class

at a college and she published an article in the Times about rape. Oprah Winfrey caught onto this and invited Alice onto her show for an episode focused on rape and assault. And at the same time, Anthony's first parole hearing was coming up. Of course he maintained his innocence, but his parole was denied and he was sent back to prison.

Of course. Two years later, he was up for parole again, but the parole board insisted he could not be considered rehabilitated unless he accepted guilt for the crime he had committed. And he would not accept the guilt. He would not proclaim his guilt because he didn't. Sticky fucking situation. Right? Because he didn't fucking do it. And so he's up for parole again two years later. Again denied.

Two years after that, the parole board addressed Anthony's previous statements of innocence and asked if he had changed his mind about saying he had done it. He said, well, ma'am, the last time I answered that question, I was hit with 24 months. I'm afraid to say anything. Yeah, fair enough. Understandably. He had been rejected from further sex offender counseling programs because he refused to acknowledge his alleged guilt. And the programs required admitting guilt, which makes some sense, right?

If you're trying to... If you actually did something. Right. If you're trying to rehabilitate someone who's an actual sex offender, then maybe, but like that's not what was happening. So parole required completion of those programs. So he's stuck. He's just stuck. His parole was denied for a third time. And eventually he declined parole opportunities from the start, from the jump, because he knew nothing would change unless he admitted guilt. Right.

Anthony's brothers tragically didn't stay in touch with him. Only an aunt occasionally wrote him a letter or two, but he was pretty much out of touch with his family. Meanwhile, Alice enrolled in a master's program and she eventually wrote a memoir called Lucky. And this was a memoir of her life and rape. It was published in 1999 with a pretty quiet reception. It didn't really make waves but in 2002 Alice published her most acclaimed work a little book called The

Lovely Bones. Oh shit! Mm-hmm. I did not put those two things together up until this moment. I mean I never read it so I don't... I never even I mean, I never read it, so I don't... I never read it, but it's a book I know the title to. It sure is. I remember everyone reading it and being disturbed in seventh grade. So that book, The Lovely Bones, it's about a girl who was raped and murdered and observes her family and killer from the afterlife. The book was hugely successful and it popularized Alice as an author and subsequently had her previous book, Lucky, reprinted.

And once it's reprinted, it's selling a million copies. And then ADA Gale, apparently, like to go speak with book clubs Oh, shit. To promote book sales and share Alice's story. Like she was just like a character in this whole thing. Yikes. She really needed attention somewhere, didn't she? Somebody wasn't giving her what she needed, I think, is what it sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like that to me, too.

Yeah. So the memoir referred to Anthony by a pseudonym do. Yeah. So the memoir referred to Anthony by a pseudonym. And 16 years and seven months after his imprisonment, Anthony reached his conditional release date and he was freed. Oh my god, 16 years and seven months. So 17 years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. He said, you don't think you will do it, but I did what everybody does. I knelt down and I kissed that ground. I said, you don't think you will do it, but I did what everybody does. I knelt down and I kissed that ground. I said, Lord, I'm free and I'm going to stay free for the rest of my life. Until you fucking say hi to your friend again.

Like it's like. You nailed it because. Shut up. Anthony, no, no, no, it doesn't happen again. But that's the fear though. Like he doesn't feel free, right? Because he's like, first of all, he's still a sex offender, registered sex offender, so it's impossible for him to find work.

He lived with a cousin whose mom had written him letters in prison, I mentioned, and shoveled snow from people's driveways for money. And then he met a woman named Elizabeth who worked as a roofer and Anthony gave her his case papers to look over and she did She read everything about his case and when she told him that she believed in his innocence. He started crying now and What a meet-cube because they began dating and working together to clear Anthony's name So, of course, he's still haunted by this crime he didn't commit.

He has flashbacks from prison. He has nightmares. He starts therapy, but he avoids bringing up the true cause of his trauma because he's scared to even go there that people will think he did it. Well, it'll come. He doesn't even want to talk about it.

He's afraid that it'll happen again. Sure. So he basically, yeah. Yeah. Like why would you want to bring about it. He's afraid that it'll happen again. Sure. I would be. Yeah. Why would you want to bring that up now? He was also afraid to have a female therapist because he was worried that if they felt uncomfortable or unsafe, then something bad would happen or if he actually got to the root of his trauma that the therapist would judge him or think he did it or who knows even contact the police Also, like you he can't just say like oh well, you know, I didn't do it like no no one's gonna believe you Like why would that work exactly? Like what proof do you have that anyone's gonna believe you?

So he took night shifts in factories because he wanted this is so sad because he wanted to have an alibi at nighttime He wanted a constant alibi at night time because violent crimes often occur at night and he was like, I'm not playing that game anymore. In fact, police did once knock on his door to question him about an 18 year old woman who was murdered in her apartment in Syracuse. And thank God for Anthony, he was on camera at work. So he had that. So it actually, unfortunately. He had built in. Yes.

That's so sad that like it ends up proving him right. Him right. Yeah. Yeah. And like just how traumatic would that be for them to show up and be like, we want to question you in the case of a murder. It's like, is this a fucking joke? Like just doesn't end. So thankfully he was ruled out as a suspect on that. And it's just so sad. He and Elizabeth, even though they were in love, they decided not to have children, even though they potentially wanted them

because Anthony was afraid that his past would taint them with a social bias and he didn't want them to go through with that or go through life with that. Meanwhile, a 2009 film adaptation of The Lovely Bones directed by Peter Jackson and starring a young Saoirse Ronan was a success and Stanley Tucci received an Academy Award nomination

for his performance as the killer. And after that film was such a big hit in 2010, Talks began to adapt her other book, Lucky, into a film. Okay. So producer Lori Parker began tackling the story and the script, but after two years of preliminary research and working on the first part of the script, she got to the legal proceedings,

and as she's reviewing all of these papers, this doubt begins to creep in. And she's like... She's like, I don't even know how to write this without having to explain a few things. Exactly. She's like, something's missing. I'm missing something.

So she contacts ADA Gail. Um, and she wanted to understand why the trial proceeded despite such a lack of evidence. She's like, I must be missing something here. And Gail repeated- No, no. You've got it all right there. Oh, it's right in front of you.

It's so obvious. Yeah. Do you want to come to the book club that I'm hosting later? Yeah. So Gail, of course, repeats her version of events where she claims that Anthony brought in a friend in the lineup to throw Alice off, which is a detail that actually Alice had included in Lucky. But Lori still didn't buy that story.

She felt like something was wrong. She had a creeping feeling. And she had actually been sexually assaulted herself, which is why she was so drawn to the story, you know? It was personal. Yeah, and so she contemplated when she had once thought she had seen her assailant in the library, and she was sure of it.

And she said, it was an out-of-body experience. It was a sort of terror that teleports you back to the original trauma. And she had spent half an hour in terror before she finally moved to leave, got another look at the man, and it turns out it was not her attacker after all. So she's seeing this exact scenario kind of playing out in these court documents, and

she's getting a sinking feeling that this guy might not have been Alice's attacker. You know she was sitting at home at one point and it all like came to a crux and she was like, please don't let me be right, please don't let me be right. I know, I know. She doesn't want to be the person who has to announce to the world that this man was not taken care of. Yeah, it's a big... And that... This person who's tried to move past this trauma for so long didn't it.

It's even worse. Like she ended up putting the wrong guy in jail. You know, it's just a lot, a lot. So she continued to do more research on the case until her heart was no longer in the project. She couldn't write the script from an objective standpoint and the project fell through. So another producer decided to adapt Lucky, but once again, this script writer, Karen Moncrief,

also began to feel uneasy. She was watching young black actors audition for the role of the rapist, and she just felt like this is not it. Eventually an actor named Adrian Walters was actually offered the role, and he went home and prayed over the opportunity. And he saw a photo of Anthony, the man that he would be portraying, and Adrian said he

was heartbroken by Anthony's kind eyes. He thought Anthony looked like someone he could have grown up with. And one day while praying over whether to accept the role, he heard something on the TV about a young black person being killed by police officers and he said, that was the moment where I got the sign I needed from God saying, no, you can't do this role. This will not be of service to people who look like you. And I know I've, he's Kim. He told Karen why he was denying the role and she decided, you know what, I'm bowing out.

I can't tell this story like this. So now two people. So she bowed out of this storyline and instead adapted it to be a white man as the rapist. She thought maybe that will like take away some of this like bad sinking feeling. So the project proceeded, but in 2021, the man who was financing this movie apparently also began to get a bad feeling about the project. And he hired former sheriff turned private investigator, Dan Myers to look into the case.

And Dan kind of got in the weeds. He spoke with officer Paul Clapper, who informed him of the lineup controversy and the misidentification. And officer Paul, all these years later, thought perhaps the wrong man had gone to prison. And Dan, this investigator later said, I got the impression that he had been dying

to tell someone for quite a long time, like he got the wrong man. Yikes. So Dan located Anthony, approached him one day, told him, hey, this is a potential thing that's happening. Anthony, he had known about the memoir because Elizabeth, his partner, had read it and told him a bit about it, but he could never bring himself to read it, obviously. I don't expect that he would. So he told Dan that all of the trial, the accusations, all of it was wrong. He insisted he was innocent. And Dan introduced him to several people who had that feeling that maybe

he was innocent. And so finally he had a team of people around him who actually believed him and were willing to fight for him. So after years of suffering, Dan had this new defense team. They're determined to prove his innocence. And it turned out that the hair analysis used to prosecute Anthony was no longer considered acceptable in trials. The FBI acknowledged it was a flawed practice to rely on hair analysis and could not be relied on. And so after reviewing that along with the evidence about the botched lineup and the way Gail was coaching Alice, the judge on the case vacated Anthony's sentence on November 22nd, 2021.

And when he did this, Anthony gasped over and began to weep. Duh. I mean, come on. Poor guy. I know. So powerful. He, at this point, was no longer considered guilty. He was no longer considered a sex offender. All those burdens they had placed on the wrong guy were being removed. He was now 61 years old. Oh. Yeah. he was finally exonerated of the crime. He never committed 40 years ago, 40. So when this news broke, of course, the angle was on Alice as a famous author, right?

More than Anthony and his struggles. And there's honestly not much about Anthony beyond what we know from this case, because most of the articles focus on Alice completely and just kind of Anthony's sort of written off. Eight days later, after this news breaks, Alice, who's being of course hounded by paparazzi over the scandal, sent an apology to Anthony's defense team for Anthony to read before posting it online. And so the apology in part read as follows. I am sorry most of all for the fact that the life you could have led was unjustly robbed from you. And I know

that no apology can change what happened to you and never will. My goal in 1982 was justice, certainly not to forever and irreparably alter a young man's life by the very crime that had altered mine." And so she posted that and pretty immediately it received quite a bit of criticism for being kind of in the passive voice, whereas most people believed Alice should take more direct responsibility for what she had done to Anthony. But Anthony took it in stride all along. He believed that she had known about his appeals and his parole attempts, but now he was learning she'd never been told that he was trying to appeal it, that he was trying to reverse his

sentence. She had no idea. She had no idea that he'd been going through this legal battle for years. And so when he learned that, it helped Anthony forgive her. And in an interview with a New Yorker, he said, I thank the good Lord, I made it to a point where I'm strong enough mentally to say, hey, it was the court, it was the system, it's not the victim's fault. Which is like-

That's such a mental strength. A big strength to have. I'm in awe of that. I could not have that kind of fortitude. Absolutely not. At least I hope I never need to, you know, but wow. But the news of Anthony's innocence shifted focus again and again away from Anthony and Alice.

It became a talking point for raped denialists who didn't seem to care about Anthony at all. They just wanted to like use this as a talking point to support their belief that men are often accused of rape falsely and that women lie about being raped. And they question whether Alice was ever raped at all. But of course, people are now clamoring on and on that like, oh, rape isn't a thing, you know, but meanwhile, they're not even touching on the blatant racism that had colored this case so badly and so thoroughly. Women now were worried that the case would be used to discredit all survivors of rape, and meanwhile, some defended Alice completely saying, you know, just totally disregarding Anthony and the racism and just saying like, Alice had nothing to do with it, she's a victim and all this, but then others argued it was possible to acknowledge that Alice had,

of course, that things aren't just black and white, so to speak, but that she had suffered a very horrific and traumatic rape. But also that then, Anthony had suffered a horror as well as a result of it. Do you know what I mean? Like, both things can be true. Like, she can have had this terrible experience and then the wrong man... imprisoned for it. And I don't see why people have such a hard time accepting that both of those things

can be true, but... I mean, I can't imagine, I've said it before, but like, I can't imagine anything worse than being wrongfully convicted for something. So scary. I mean, he was just walking down the street one day and flash forward to a year later and he's like hiding behind a baking tray watching his friend die. Like, because he's trapped in prison and nobody's listening to him and he's getting beaten up because he just wants help and he's painted into corners where he has to admit guilt if he even wants a chance of parole. I mean, like he is living a full blown nightmare and it was because of the

bias of the courts. So. Right. And I don't think any of the two invalidate that the other one had a traumatic experience. Like, I don't think one's the victim and one's not, you know? It's just so, so messed. There's just so much shit interwoven in this story. So it was undeniable, obviously, that racism allowed a grand jury to accept a case without any real evidence whatsoever. Racism supported officers and district attorneys in pursuing it. Racism allowed a judge to condemn Anthony to prison without even really speaking to

him. A GoFundMe raised nearly $170,000 to support Anthony, who lived with his wife Elizabeth in a house with broken windows that they had covered with tarps because of the harsh New York winters they couldn't afford to, you know, I mean, again, he was a sex offender, registered sex offender. He wasn't able to get a good job. And so finally, you know, he's getting that reverse. He's no longer on the sex offender list. And this was just a start to rebuild the life he never got to build. So this is how recent this was. In February, 2023, so just about a year ago,

as we record this, he settled a lawsuit against the state of New York for $5.5 million. And Alice said in a statement on the settlement, no amount of money can erase the injustices Mr. Broadwater suffered. But the settlement now officially acknowledges them. So at the very least, you know, there's a bit of closure there, I suppose.

And hopefully he can at least support himself. I mean, he's in his 60s now. Why should he have to go get a fucking job? That's another part of the further to be criticism about whether or not he suffered. His life was taken away. Exactly. Exactly. So arguments, of course, are still waged online daily asking like,

who's to blame for all this? Many condemn Alice full stop. Others put the blame on the judicial system who took on the case and coached Alice and neglected to involve her in any of the appeals, which usually they would contact you if your attacker or your rapist were. On top of all that from the very beginning of this incident, I mean, her own parents weren't there for her. Friends weren't there for her. Nobody was helping her. She also didn't have a lot of people to lean on.

Except fucking Gale. If she had more people to even advise her or be there for her, like, she might have made different decisions, she might have been given different guidance. So like, I blame the courts, but I also blame like from the very beginning, I mean, if we're getting like really into it, we're blaming like the patriarchy or purity culture or whatever would have caused her parents to not fucking give a shit that their own kid was brutally raped. Like, from the very beginning, she didn't have help and she just had to run with whatever

she had. So I think from the very beginning all the way through, no system was set in place to be helpful for her. No, no. And it's almost like the second somebody finally reached out a hand and said, hey, I'll help you through this. Like they had ulterior motives. And that wasn't her fault.

She was just happy someone cared. And I will say, like, I can see the other side of, like, to flippantly kind of just believe, like, okay, well, I guess I picked the right guy. He's going to jail and move on. Like, I can see why people are mad about that. Like, I can see why people would be mad that a young woman, a young white woman just kind of believes

that she just happened to pick the wrong guy. Like, I don't know. In my opinion, I would have, looking back, wished she would have spoken up more about how unsure she was. But you know, again, like she's being also fed information and she's being lied to. She also did say, I mean, she was was saying like I didn't know between four or five

I just picked five because he looked at her so she openly said I don't know. Yeah, she did say she could not be a hundred percent sure So yeah in that case, it's like Yeah, I mean there's no court It sounds like the only person whose opinion really matters is Anthony's, and he seems to have taken it with grace. Yeah, yeah, he seems to have been able to forgive, which is very powerful.

Of course, there's a lot of criticism, I think rightfully so, on Gail, who continued to support Alice by affirming the false lineup story that was told in Lucky, and she continued to support Alice by affirming the false line-up story that was told in Lucky, and she continued to promote that narrative even though she made it up. And now it's in a book, and she's like, yeah, that's real. Anthony said that he believes Alice's apologies are genuine and that he has accepted them.

And when he first read the apology Alice wrote, he was emotional and later said, it comes sincerely from her heart. She knowingly admits what happened. I accept her apology. Mm. In an interview, he said that he hoped one day she would ask to meet with him. Wow. Wow.

That would be powerful. Anthony told The New Yorker, we both went through the fire. You see movies about rape, and the young lady is scrubbing herself in the shower over and over. And I'm saying to myself, damn, I feel the same way. Will it ever be gone from my memory, my mind, my thoughts? No, and it's not going to be gone for her either. Mm.

Ooh, that's chilling. That's like so powerful. What a... I mean... I guess it's always in you. People always saw the kindness in his eyes, but to have so much empathy is so much empathy I mean it sounds like he was from day one just a Bright person happy bright optimistic person who saw the

Glass half full even though his friend was fucking murdered next to him the glass half full even though his friend was fucking murdered next to him. And he like lost 40 years of his life. It's just crazy. But oh, quick update. I just found last night a headline from Syracuse.com that HBO is making a two part feature on the exoneration of Syracuse's Anthony Broadwater in Alice Sebold's rape. So they're currently in the works. We'll see what happens with that.

But that should be on HBO at some point. And that is of last month. So yeah, we'll see. We'll see. It's a doozy. Wow. My bad. I don't know what to say, but you did a good job

reporting it this time. Bye. Bye. Hi. What are we going to talk about in the after hours? Let's think of something more lighthearted. Let's pick something worse actually. Let's pick something. I don't think we can find one.

Let's maybe, what about something paranormal this time? Okay. We'll figure it out. I'll brainstorm in the next 10 seconds. What about something paranormal this time? Okay We'll figure it out in the next 10 seconds the next 10 seconds if you Enjoyed the first half of this where you had a lot of fun And then you also enjoyed the second half where you learned something, but it was very sad Check it check out having a third experience with us on Patreon.

Yeah, maybe it'll just make everything worse. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe we'll talk about Zach Bagans, maybe we'll talk about Mary Had a Little Lamb, maybe we will try to turn the energy around. We shall see. You never know.

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