And That's Why We Drink - E375 Joann's Haberdashery and Ghost Logic

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

It's episode 375 and we've got a choose your own adventure of reasons to drink this week. Today Em brings us the holy grail of haunted houses, the Merchant's House in Manhattan. Then Christine takes us to Utah and into the world of mommy vloggers to kick off her two-parter on Ruby Franke/8 Passengers. Tune in next week and we'll hopefully have all our teeth and no creepy garden statues... and that's why we drink!Can you believe we wrote a second book!? AND that you can already pre-order it?? Go to bit.ly/HRANextStop to pre-order your copy today!

Here she is, the most beautiful girl in the world. Just kidding. It's Christine. And me. How are you? Who could it be? Which one of us is the pageant queen? The pretty little girl. It's me. How are you? Who could it be? Which one of us is the pageant queen? The pretty little girl.

It's me. Well, I mean, it might as well be, because when we hopped on, you said, you look pretty for an ugly person. Well, you said you look pretty, then you paused. And then I said, well, wait till you hear about my day. And you said, well, I was gonna call you ugly, but I guess I won't.

Which I think you thought was a nicer thing to do. I was just trying to, you know, keep, keep the love alive, keep you on your toes. And then you said, oh, I'm actually having a bad day. And I went, oh, well, we'll save it for tomorrow. But it's not even like a bad, well, what? Gosh, it's just interesting. Anyway, why do you drink this week? I'm going to let you go first.

Okay. That actually is probably, wow. We're also starting real hot. It hasn't interesting. Anyway, why do you drink this week? I'm gonna let you go first. Okay, that actually is probably, wow, we're also starting real hot. It hasn't even been two minutes. Usually we do 15 minutes of forgetting to do our job first. Usually nobody knows what's, yeah. I'm gonna eat my chocolate orange. You tell me why you drink. Okay. Oh, I'm not gonna eat it. Great.

I'm gonna mute it so everyone's not mad at me, but I'm gonna eat it while the mic is muted. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Before you bite it, before you bite it, because I'm gonna eat it while the mic is muted. Okay, wait, wait, wait, before you bite it, before you bite it, because I'm gonna need you to be my hype up background support audio. Ready? The reason I drink is because we wrote another book.

Wo, wo, wo! How do we, hang on, what is it, hang on. What was that? Crickets! Oh shit. I can't hear the sounds I just have to rely on.. No it's perfect, leave it. It's perfect. It's perfect. Don't change it. Well I know we did a PSA

in front of the episodes right now, but I know people also skip through those sometimes. I also skip through ads, I understand. But I just wanted to make sure everybody knows we wrote another book. We did, and we should probably sprinkle it out through our stories too for the people who skipped the intro. We'll just like scream it.

Oh, we'll just be like, we wrote another book, okay. We're like, oh, I wrote, this person wrote a book about it. Hey, we wrote a book, didn't we? Oh yes, yeah. I'll just add a random note in. Fun fact about books, even though we're not talking about books at all. No, we wrote another book,

but just before you skip through this, we wanted to say, first of all, I can't believe we wrote a second book. I can't believe we wrote a first book, but I don't think anyone can believe it. I know, and it was very, very hard, and I drink because we can finally talk about it, and it was very hard.

It's not easy to write a book. Everyone that's ever done a talk show and said it was not easy was telling the truth. And I think one time- Really, I thought it was super easy. Well, remember that one time we were on, we did an interview on some news outlet and they were like, how was the process?

And I literally said, not good, I hated it. Terrible, terrible. You were like, it's the worst thing I've ever done. I was like, it's the most fun I'd ever wanna have again. And... I actually, I just wanna say I'm super proud of this one. I was super proud of our first one, obviously, but this one, like I read it and I was like, man,

we like, I think personally, we leveled up. I think we did too. And it's like even funnier than the first one. I mean, not to like toot our own horn, but I'm really proud of it. I'm really proud of it. And it's like even funnier than the first one. I mean, not to like toot our own horn, but I'm really proud of it. And the cover's really fun and cool and it's on pre-order right now. It is.

So the reason I'm bringing it up again and why it's so crucial right now to tell you all about it is because we are not the experts here, but please trust us that we've heard from those who are experts, that numbers wise, it works out much better for us if we get pre-orders versus orders

when the book is on shelves. And so if you are so inclined, we would love if you could pre-order it instead of wait until September when it comes out. Don't make us beg. I'm not trying to beg. I just want everyone to be on the same page. And if you see us- I'm gonna see us, only halfway through this episode,

Christine will already be desperate. Nobody's even answered, but I'm just already upset. I'm like, please, please. No, I only mentioned it because I personally, I didn't know this. And if I were to ever do a book, even like an audio book, I never pre-ordered, it never occurred to me. So.

Okay, well, welcome to the club. I listen to a lot of podcasts. So anytime a podcaster writes a book, they talk about this. But basically all the pre-orders count toward your first week of sales. So when the book is released, all the months of sales count toward the first week. So it feels a little like unbalanced,

but that's the same for every book. So essentially that's how you end up in the rankings is all the pre-orders count toward that first week. So that first week of release is when we find out like, did people order it? Is it like popular? So it is a huge help to pre-order the book and you can do that.

It's on our website. We also have a bit.ly, bit.ly slash h-r-a next stop. That's a little spoiler for the title. Next stop. Yeah, please. Next stop. We just wanted to, I wanted my reason that I drink. First of all, it is a real reason why I drink.

I'm so glad we can finally talk about it. Because I feel like there's been a few times where I feel just run ragged and I could not tell people why. So, so there's that. Or you can just go to our website. You can find it there. It's also in our show notes.

We're going to put the link in our show notes too. So you can just click. We're going to put it everywhere. You won't be able to avoid it. Anyway, I didn't mean for this to come off as such like an intense PSA, but I know myself well enough that if it wasn't at the forefront of my mind right now I wouldn't remember until we were done recording and I just wanted everybody to know so I drink because it's finally done. We can finally talk about it. Oh

And my TV decided to change into a target ad. So that's why I'm now sitting in the red dark Anyway, well The deep Well, anyway, while this ad plays out on my YouTube light, can you please tell me, Christine, why you drink? You don't have YouTube premium. What does it matter with you? Like YouTube premium like a normal person.

I do. I do. It's, this is RJ's old, there it is. It's RJ's old TV and he wasn't on it and I still just have never signed into my own account. So you're just in his account. I'm just in his account and he every- Tell him to grow up and get a fucking premium account stat.

Every day he probably looks at his own YouTube search history and it just says beige background. Is that what you do? You play like beige? I was like, do you have like animal, like a wildlife scene? Like what's playing? No, I just need like a basic. There's no

I'm still in an apartment. So there's no ceiling lights. There's no real lights anywhere So I just have to work with what I have and like your own ring light Yeah, and also because I have glasses the ring light is So this ends it up working out better because it's kind of angled away from my face and all that so In theory, it's a good idea until all of a sudden, Target wants to tell me I should go shopping again there. So anyway. Yeah, they're like, I know you just got home from Target, but we have some more stuff you might like.

It's so evil. Anyway, Christine, why do you drink? You tell me. Well, okay. I mean, happily, here's the thing. I've been like stacking my reasons. Like I've been like, stacking my reasons. Like I've been like, oh, here's a good reason. And then I'm like, oh, here's another good reason.

And then I need you to know, M, we have not recorded since March 18th. So I'm like, wow, we have like three weeks worth of stuff that has happened that I would like to address or not even like to address, but I just wanna say it. So I'm gonna say it in just like a listicle format. And like you do not need to maybe don't react or don't respond until we're at the end. And then you can choose your own adventure if there's anything you want to elaborate on.

But I'm just going to have to like just blurt this list out because. I already know a few that are going to be on there, but I'm excited to hear you say it. I think you might you might know the first be on there, but I'm excited to hear you say them. Yeah, you sure do. I think you might know the first one, which was that I drove us directly off the highway into a snowbank. Okay? That's number one.

The second one is, oh, by the way, us, I mean, Em, Eva, Eva's partner, Rachel, and me, and I drove us off the highway, spun us out. Anyway, it was a whole thing. Second, we went to Salem. I went for the first time ever. Em and I got a couples aura reading and learned so much. And we stayed in the most haunted building in Salem. That's two.

Number three. This was by the way, within four days of our last time recording. So that's like how long ago this list has been in creation. And the Salem was within four days of you crashing us into a snowbank. Oh, it was a day after. Yeah. So exactly. So literally 24 hours.

Then one day, Blaze was like, oh, I'm going to step out for a bit. I don't the gym like my jujitsu gym is closed. And I was like, oh, where are you off to? And he's like, oh, I'm getting a tattoo. First tattoo ever. He is. Keep going. Yeah. It's of a of a chupacabra. Okay, we'll get there.

Next. I went to Columbus to follow boy and someone at the hotel stole my AirPods and I've been tracking them and alongside the police have been trying to get them back. That's a whole thing. They're in so much trouble. I'm like, I know where you live. Like I was like, Christine knows your blood type. Like I already done a background check. Like I know who you are. I know your blood type. Exactly. Um, next, uh, Easter morning I woke up and uh, suddenly I said,

why do I have like 600 emails? Well, it's because I mentioned, uh, my little Etsy store and they went absolutely haywire. And I have created now an entire business. I have a label printer. I'm like, I'm just like, what am I doing? All of a sudden I'm mailing all this shit out. I'm having the best time. So thank you to everybody who has ordered something and made my day.

So those should be coming to you soon. Next, I got home and I realized my prize possession, my Leona diamond and sapphire ring was missing. And I like freaked out and I thought I had left it, like lost it just in a hotel or on the plane. I mean, you've heard about my fucking AirPods. So I'm like, oh no, like I'm never gonna get that back. It doesn't like have a tracker.

And so Eva was talking to the venue, trying to find it. They were looking everywhere. I called the hotel. And then I just had this like moment where, okay, this ties into my next point, which is that I've started taking psychic classes. And so I was like, oh, there was a whole course on how to find a lost object.

So I tried it and I'm sitting there and I'm meditating and I'm like asking my guides and they were like, they literally, it was like beeline. I went upstairs. I grabbed my backpack that I travel with. I reached in the side where my water bottle goes and it was in the bottom of that pocket. And I was like, oh my God, I found it.

So I got that back. Then, like I said, I started taking psychic courses. It's going really freaky and really well. Then I started learning tarot. So every day now I'm pulling tarot cards. I really wanna start learning so I can do real readings for fun for my friends. Next, I was planting my new lilac tree and I found this creepy statue of a saint

in the ground the day that I asked my, my guides for a sign. Turns out it's, I'll send you a picture. I mean, it's really quite upsetting. And I would also like to add that when I pulled this little statuette out of the ground, it was totally by surprise because we had had our yard completely redone last year. Like it was just dirt before. And so they had like bulldozed that entire area. So I don't know how this thing ended up,

but I just sent it to the group chat, Em. But I found this like maybe three centimeters below the dirt. Tell me when you see it. We can also post this on Instagram. Right? I'm like, what is this tiny thing? And look, they've planted everything there.

It's not like it's been sitting, I don't know. It's very creepy and unsettling. So then that happened. And of course now I have my own, I've done all these spirit guide exercises. There's a whole Egyptian background M knows about, it's a whole thing. Then I put, we wrote a book.

That's like a minor little update within this list. Then last night I found out that my, remember how I had started that short story like competition or whatever. So I found out that I made it to the next round. And then to celebrate, I started eating some stale cabbage cheddar popcorn, and I cracked my entire molar in half.

And this morning I had to go to the emergency dental clinic and they had to take it apart and it went all the way down to the root. So now I need an emergency tooth extraction and an emergency implant, not an emergency implant, but a new implant of a new Moller. It's my back Moller. So that's what I'm up to. That was kind of just like a timeline of everything that's happened. So hello, I'm here now. I just like, I needed to just say everything. I couldn't leave it as as is I just had a lot to say I'm sorry

It's just a lot I'm so glad I mentioned the book before you because I am too it was gonna just be a read footnote. Yeah. Yeah Wow where to start I Can't I'm like, oh my are you in pain? How are you a little bit? It's like I'm like they said just eat on the other side and I can't, I'm like, oh my. Are you in pain currently? How are you eating? A little bit, it's like, I'm like, they said just eat on the other side. And I can't go get my tooth extracted until Tuesday. So they just put like a temporary.

Tuesday? Yeah. Bitch, it's Wednesday. That's like a whole week. I know, I know. What the hell? So they put like a temporary sealant over it. And they're like, that'll last for a couple

weeks. I don't believe them. I would literally go to a different I would literally go to a different dentist that day I'd be like we're pulling it out immediately. Oh my god. It reminded me of the time your mom broke her tooth eating soup. And you know what again another person who did not react appropriately because she literally pulled it out, like soup. And then she pulled it out. It was like, oh, here's my tooth. I was like, girl, you have to be kidding me.

What do you mean? What do you mean? I texted my brother, wow, my story made it to the next round. He goes, Christina, I'm so proud of you. Congratulations. And I wrote back, what will you do? Literally this is how quickly it happened. I was like, what do you do if you break your molar off,

but half of it is still like attached? And he was like, oh my, I don't know. Yeah, they had to like. Why are we recording today, girl? You could have literally said absolutely not. I almost texted, but then I was like, oh my God, what if like they have an opening tomorrow and I have to go in.

So I was like, you know what? Let's do recording today Anyway, so honestly the truth is like the least of my concerns Like I just don't even care at this point. It doesn't hurt that much. So I'm just over it and I don't think I'm ever getting my air pods back because the police don't give a shit which rightfully so there's bigger fish to fry out there So to speak so So you know what, whatever. It's like, I'm just starting to have to let go of certain things like my brand new AirPods that cost me $300.

Like your teeth. And my teeth that cost me, you know, my sanity. Well they cost you zero until later, then they cost a lot. Pretty sudden, then suddenly, wow, yeah. All of a sudden you want your like, return on investment from the Tooth Fairy. You're like, actually, wait a minute. Yeah, wait a minute. I'm like, nobody told me. I'd like a refund, I need that, wow. Yeah. All of a sudden you want your like return on investment from the Tooth Fairy. You're like, actually, wait a minute.

Yeah, wait a minute. I'm like, I'd like a refund. I need that. Yeah. Give those back. Like I was just giving them away. And now I know like, oh, no, those are worth something. Or like since you cracked a tooth in half, technically, do you get money tonight, please? Well, they didn't give me the other half.

So I'm like, well, shit. No, they showed me a picture of the X-ray. Oy vey. Absolutely, hey, absolutely not Tell you that and by the way, the popcorn wasn't even good cuz it was stale Like it was good a few weeks ago and I remember eating and being like it's not even very good and then I continued to eat it You know, you know, it's just like just girly things, you know Yeah, What?

And Blaze is getting a tattoo. For those who don't know, Blaze is having a bit of a journey these days and in the best way possible. But like we're actually Eva and I, when you weren't around, we talked about Blaze a couple of weeks ago. We were like, he's really doing it. Like he is killing, we were like, we sang his praises for like half of a meal. Oh, that's nice.

But he's going through, I don't know what he's going through if he's going through anything, but he's having some sort of awakening and a self-guided journey, I suppose. Listen, it really is like, he's just doing his jujitsu. He got a haircut, He got all buff. He paints his nails.

He got all buff. Leona paints his nails every week before jujitsu to make sure he has the right colors. And so he's doing that. And then one day, he's never got a tattoo in his whole life. One day he just said, oh, I'm gonna head out. And I'm like, where are you going?

And he's like, oh, I'm getting a tattoo. And I was like, oh, okay. Far be it for me to stop you have fun. And he came back and he had this right here on his arm, this adorable little chupacabra from the book series that we read with Leona. And so his and her favorite book is, is Don't Eat Me Chupacabra, and they read it all the time. And so he got that like on his arm. And do you know what, Renee, Renee, I call her Renee, what Leona Renee, my child said the second she saw it, she was like, it's chupacabra. And Blaze was like, yeah, I got it,

because it's our favorite book. And she said, and mommy gets Krampus. And I went, uh-oh. And I heard them on the monitor and she said, and mommy gets Krampus. And I went, Oh, you know what? I heard them on the monitor and blaze went, yeah, maybe mommy will get Krampus. And I was like, uh, hello. And so now I think I'm destined for that. I'm still searching for the lie, but, um, I know, I know we all knew it was good. It's like she knew she's like, okay, next, next. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, that's lovely. That's beautiful.

Um, yeah, that was, you know, it's, it's happening. Things are happening. I feel like, um, even though I'm curious about some other things, I feel like our audience will, before we get into things, we'll want to hear the Snowbank story and your Salem experience. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, okay. Well, I'll just say, the snowbank story was ridiculous. If you were following us on Instagram that day, we were trying to get from New Hampshire to, what's called Beverly, Massachusetts. And we had this car that was,

looks like it has four wheel drives. They literally just didn't give us four wheel drive. And the rental car. And so we- And it was a massive snowstorm. Shovelled, massive snowstorm. 18 inches in Vermont where we were. It was bad.

And that was us being, trying to be wise about it because after our show the night before, which ends at like midnight, we decided, hey, to beat the snow, let's at least drive halfway tonight. And so at like 3 a.m. We drove halfway and went to like a fucking random ass hotel on the side of the highway in New Hampshire.

So we were like, oh, we escaped the worst of the storm. I mean, technically. Then we got like 13 inches that day and Eva shoveled the car out and then goes, hey, so like the car's kind of stuck. I'm not getting any traction. So then we went into like fix it mode, right? And everybody has their own-

For two and a half hours. For two and a half hours. Like Eva's partner, Rachel's upstairs, boiling pots of water, cause they have these like little kitchenettes, it's like a residence inn or something. And she comes running down with like boiling pots of water and we hand them off like some some sort of crazed, what is

it called, assembly line. Assembly line. But it was like- Throw it at the tires. It was the smallest pot on earth, so Rachel would come down just to pour it on one tire and then have her run up and boil water all over again to get the next tire. And then I was stealing every type of bath mat this place had thinking if we got that- And would walk out with a rubberized rug and we were like, where did you get that?

It's like an industrial rug and I'm like the floor of the elevator We were like this place we're just like cleaning this place out of all their like Corporate supplies that they buy from some weird catalog And I was thinking like if we could get that on top then maybe that we could get the tire to roll off to run off of that instead of towels. We literally we found one of those like the yellow caution don't cross here. And we were using that as a shovel because they didn't even have a shovel for us to clear out the snow. Oh yeah, they go we don't have a shovel.

I'm like you're a liar. We're in New Hampshire. And we were all the way in the back of a parking lot like to get out of the parking lot would have been like a Five minute walk and so we it's not like we were just we had to get our car out of one little parking area And then we would have been fine because the entire hotel Like driveway system parking lot system all the way out to the road wasn't even paved Well, that was the worst part is that we repeatedly kept getting stuck So we had to keep doing these dumb ass like little fix it situations that weren't really

doing much. And then eventually we finally got out. We had to flag down a tow truck who was like, I don't even tow this hotel's parking lot. And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. They don't own a shovel. And he was like, okay, we'll get you out. He pulled us out three times. Got stuck again, pulled us out again.

Then I'm like, guys, we're on the road. We've made it. I spun the car twice on like giant four lane highways. Oops, we're suddenly facing traffic going the wrong direction. I'm like, guys, it's fine. I've got this. And, um,

the confidence is out of control. Cause the whole time I was like, no, you do not. But okay, okay. You're the one by the wheel. I'm not gonna say anything. I really thought I had something going. And so I finally got us on the highway. We're like coasting.

I'm like, okay, we're going. And then all of a sudden there's like a little bump and the car just decides you don't own me anymore. And we just start like careening off of the fucking highway. And so there was like a little pole and I was like like I'm just gonna focus on not hitting that fucking pole so we did not hit the pole thank Christ but we did like completely plow into the side of the road and was like I'm getting I so I kept trying to get us out which and was like not having well I okay to be fair I know that it's stupid to get out

of a car on the side of a highway. I do know that but I was Yeah, because I screamed at you 16 times. No, I've always known that but no I've always known that but I still thought it was more worth it By the way, the highway was empty like we weren't like it wasn't like we almost risked hitting somebody else It was just us for a long time on the highway But the car was in a snowbank at like a 45 degree angle and Christine was in her obsessed, I'm going to fix this situation. And I was starting to think if she just pedaled to the metal into a snowbank, the car was going to topple over on my side. And then I wasn't going to be

able to get out. And I was like, fuck this, I'm out of the car. You do whatever you want. I'll just watch from over here where there's no cars coming anyway. And you you do whatever. Just burn yourself out because I can't be here anymore. And I literally just screamed like, then get out. And so then Em got out. It was like happily goodbye. Eventually Em got in the back seat and was like, if you're making me sit in the car, I'm sitting in the back. And I'm like, great.

So all three of them are crammed in the back. I'm sitting in the back closest to the window that will be upright so I can be the first one out of the car I mean seriously you're like I'm gonna put myself in the safest place I can inside the vehicle So finally we got a hold of a tow truck and I stopped my persistent revving of the engine because that's all it was and Finally this tow truck came and he gets out and he goes and we all get out of the car like a clown car. And he's like, there's a lot of you. You're going to have to stay in the car when we tow you,

but buckle up and don't tell anyone. Oops, too late. So we were like, we don't care. We'll sign our waivers, our safety away. Just take us away from this highway. So they got us in. And then somehow, this was the craziest part, Rachel's back there and is like, oh, there's this service called like door to door something or other that, so we just called them on a whim, like we're trying to, every rental car place is closed.

Eva calls them and is like, can you take us from here to Beverly, Massachusetts, which is like an hour and a half, two hours away and they were like, sure. And we were like, when? They're like, now? It was the wildest part. And they were like, sure. And we were like, when? They're like, now? It was the wildest part. And so she goes, oh, we'll send Ken. So this man shows up in this big ass car and he's like,

hey, hop on in, I've got orange soda for you. It was like our guardian angel. And we went, you got it. You got it. And the craziest part was I went on to find it later to like write a review or find their phone number. It like does not exist. It's not on Google Maps. It's not on anywhere.

It's not on Apple Maps. It's only on Waze, I think. I'm like, how, none of us would have found that. Like, I don't know, the business didn't exist on Google. So I'm like, Ken was a guardian angel, I think, because Orange Shota is my favorite. So he must've just like swooped down from the heavens. I don't know. He got us straight to the venue.

I gotta tell you, though, yeah, we drove directly to the venue. We had to end up holding for like a half an hour for us to even be able to set up for the show. But like the whole time we were there, we were like racing the clock. Like people were already waiting outside of the theater when we pulled up after having this like whole day excursion trying. But I will tell you, in that car after doing hours of digging, and by the way, we were not dressed for this kind of snowstorm. I was the most California bitch about this. I had the most breathable thin ass sneakers with no socks on for my shoes.

They were like Walmart shoes, so it was just, I was just standing in snow for hours. We, at some point, gave up on the shovels, so we were just digging with our hands for hours. I mean, we were soaked and sweaty and awful, but that two-hour ride in that heated van, that was the nap of a lifetime. So unconscious that I was like checking your breathing,

really every few minutes. I was like, are you okay? Yeah, and so, I mean, no, definitely not. So anyway, it was just wild. And that, by the way, I just want to remind everyone that was number one on my list. And later on there's like, we wrote an entire book, you know, I mean, but this,

this was probably the most deserved story. I just knew we would forget to talk about it because it happened three weeks ago. So I wanted to put it out there. But yeah, we survived. It's all good. And you got to have your Salem experience. You were there for a day. We met a lot of people who stopped and said hi to us. That was very lovely. We did a lot of shopping. Oh, Christine and I did so much shopping. Oh, we, oh, that was also the same trip

that Delta broke half of my suitcase off, and so the wheels just had holes on them. So I was dragging that through the snow, and my suitcase ended up filled with snow, and I was trying to put all my, I had to end up pack, you did two shipping stuff home, and I had to pack another suitcase to bring stuff home. We bought so much beautiful witchy stuff in Salem.

So that was my recovery. I took Christine to my favorite wand place. I took Christine to my favorite wand place. We got wands, we ate some yummy food. We got a secret tour to a haunt attraction that is open currently, which was fun. Anyway, I'm glad I got to be with you during your Salem experience.

I am too. It was like the best way to recover from kind of a traumatic day. So. I'm surprised at some point that day, we didn't say a hundred times, we needed this. We needed this. We needed this.

You know what? I think we just both knew it so clearly that like telepathically that we did not need to say it aloud. I think we know. We know. Well, anyway, I think you win the award. I think. No, I don't want an award.

Please don't give it to me. And all it will break like an anvil and hit you in the head. I will probably break a foot, a toe with it by mistake. And also the other reason why I drink is that we have one last show of our tour and then it's over again. So it's very weird that we're about to... It's so sad. We have spent...

It's one thing that I don't think a lot of people realize is that you and me and Eva, we are never in the same room anymore together unless we're on tour. And so now that tour's over, it, we are never in the same room anymore together unless we're on tour. And so now that tour's over, it means we're probably not going to see each other all that much until we're on tour in the fall. And so... Yeah, or y'all have to come be groupies, roadies for the Beach Chief Sandy summer tour, which is apparently how I do things now is I just, I'm always on tour either with you or my brother,

which is quite... It's sick. I don't know how you do it. It's sick. It's sick is what it is. Yeah. Anyway, go see Christine while I'm relaxing and on vacation. Christine's gonna still be on the road. And we've probably dragged to, like, several. We'll see. At least I don't have to be on stage.

Last time we told someone, we told everyone you'd be in D.C. at the D.C. show. That show sold out in, like, five minutes. And then you had, like like a whole welcoming committee there So maybe I'll just say you're coming to one of the shows and then I won't say which. I'll be at every city. You just won't see them because they'll be hiding out in a special section I will be I will be at some of the shows, but I'll let everyone decide for themselves what what those are No, it's it's such a weird situation

because half of me is like, even though I don't wanna be on stage because of my own issues with that, I get jealous that you're on stage with somebody else. But then at the same time, I'm like so happy that I don't have to work. And so I'm like, I don't know how I feel. I'm so conflicted here.

So- What a complicated roller coaster of emotions. I know. But then you get a whole fan base anyway. People are coming up to you and I know, but I feel bad. At the last one, I had to start turning people away. No, it was amazing.

Well, I know you did that part. Cause I was like, it's not, I don't want it to be about me. It was you and Zandy. So I, I Well, no, no, I loved it because I was like, this is great. Cause that's the venue where the bathroom's like across the whole lobby.

So Alexander would peek out and be like, okay, M's distracting them. And I would just like run past you to the bathroom. I was like, M has everybody distracted. This is the best setup. All right. Hey, well then you are welcome, I guess. But we're going to DC improv. So you want to join? Let me know. I have, I'll always find a reason to go back home. So yeah, sure. And my mother will probably be my date again, which a lot of people seems to be very excited about. So I was, I certainly was. Okay. Well, everyone,

you got your 30 minutes in of us talking about nothing related to our podcasts. I hope you had fun. And with that, the book was related to our podcast, sort of. The book was related, us going to Salem. I mean, technically it was all a toe dip into our show. I almost killed both hosts of this program and the producer. And you would have done it with flying colors, Christine. Flying...

On a bad day, I'll wish you did. So, I don't know, I'll just tell you. Maybe if you knew, if you knew you were going to crack your fucking molar the same week everything else happened, maybe you would have driven a little faster. I don't know. Honestly, I don't think I could have.

I think you saw me and there was no way I could have made it any faster. I was, I was really gunning it. So anyway, those are the reasons why we drink. I don't think we've ever had more reasons in a single episode. So please, please, please on our behalf. I feel like I had to cut, I cut a bunch out. I don't think we've ever had more reasons in a single episode, so please, please, please, on our behalf.

I feel like I had to cut, I cut a bunch out. They didn't make the cut. So yeah, folks, just drink for, we all have all these crazy reasons, but yes, everybody drink on our behalf. Drink on your own behalf. We will be joining you. Dare I say, this is your weekly reminder

to drink some water, you thirsty little rats. Oh, no, no, I'm like, drink some vodka. Squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak. I guess if M wants you to drink water water you thirsty little rats. Oh no, I'm like drink some vodka. Squeak, squeak, squeak. I guess if M wants you to drink water, go for it, but I'll be drinking Chardonnay. I don't know, it's my stepdad's birthday so I'm making blaze drive and I'm like let's party. It's your reminder to be hydrated, it doesn't have to be me telling you to get dehydrated, I'm just saying get into the void and you do what you want with that. While you're drinking, maybe hydrating, this is where I tell you

all about a story. And this is the story of the merchant's house. And this is different than the merchant hotel, which we just stayed at in Salem. Okay, I was gonna say, wow, perfect, but not the same. Okay. The Merchant Hotel, which is actually the Joshua Wardhouse, that was episode girl 59. That means we had just had, like, our one year anniversary, if you think about it. Yes, we had, like, we'd fully solidified our friendship around this time.

Wow. And maybe a redo is in order, but today we are talking about something else merchant-wise. So this is, according to the New York Times, is one of Manhattan's, or at one point was called Manhattan's Most Haunted House. I don't know if it's still called that, but it has been given that shout out.

Others have called it the Holy Grail of haunted houses. Okay. What? And I do have clips for you and by you, I also mean Megan to post later for people to enjoy. Yes. And I will get to those in a little bit, but let's start in 1832.

And in New York City, this is on fourth street. This is like an exclusive up and coming suburb of New York. Um, and there's a guy named Joseph Brewster. He built a row house here. 1832. 1832. Okay. And Joseph Brewster, he built a row house made out of brick and apparently marble, which I...

Oh, oh. That's a lot of work. And so, but here's the thing, and this is just a random pun fact for everybody, but he was a hatter. And so how on earth did a hatter afford a marble row house in the hub of New York City? Listen, everyone's got a hat back then. That's what I was going to say is that we discuss this again, you said three weeks ago.

So excuse our not remembering totally. But we did say in a recent episode that like there was even a ghost who like didn't have a hat and like people freaked out. He didn't have a hat or something. Or oh, that's true. Yes, like the ghost in that who came out of the fireplace or whatever the fuck. Yeah, people were like, either he had a hat and that impressed people

or he didn't have a hat and it concerned everybody more than him being a ghost. He didn't have a hat and everyone like made a point to mention that he was not wearing a hat. Like it was more, Yeah, so he's dead and rude. Like a guess of the game. Yes.

Yeah, he's dead and like a dick also. He's like not with the social times. But yeah, in the 1800s, hats were a boom in business. This is where they call them. You probably do. But like a mad hatter. So what would you like to read my next bullet point for Beto? Or I was so excited. I was like, I have a fun fact. But then I realized, you know, more about that whole

Alice in Wonderland world than I do. Do I? I don't know why. I don't know. I always think about you, but I think it's because of the hookah caterpillar. That's the only reason I care about Alice. OK, I like in my mind, that's the only connection I have to that book and movie at all. So you're the only tenuous connection. Thank you.

I am honored because that's one of my he is one of my prized characters. I've, if there's ever, very rarely do you find a Chachki or something of him. So when I do find something, I get very excited about it. I love that for you. So yes, the Mad Hatter in the 1800s, business was booming, but it was also a very dangerous game to be a Hatter

because especially the new silk top hat hatters, because the way that they were felted, the felt had to be stiffened at the time, it was stiffened with mercury. And so hatters were at risk for chronic mercury poisoning because they were working with it all the time and inhaling it. And sufferers dealt with mood changes, irritability, insomnia, memory impairment, emotional sensitivity, tremors, all sorts of problems. Death, I assume, after the insanity kicked in.

And that's why a lot of hatters during that time were considered mad hatters, because they were literally going mad as they worked on the hats. And that's where we get mad hatter from Alice in Wonderland because he was wearing a silk felted top hats. 100%. That is so just one of my favorite fun facts. You know, I bet the hatters of the 1800s did not enjoy it like we do today.

Or maybe they were so mad. Maybe. That guy seemed happy on that movie that I watched one time. He did. He was smelling colors. He was all over the place. He was having a good time. Yes, fun facts just to clarify for everyone. You should know this by now, but they are not usually fun. So you know what? I get to say fun fact, even if it's really not enjoyable for, you know, certain parties. Well, here's kind of a side fun fact that is fun, because so do you know the difference between a hatter and a milliner? And do you know the difference between those and a haberdasher? No. Okay, the only reason I know this is because I had a moment.

As we know, I have created an apothecary in the troll hole because I could not take my vitamins unless it was done in a funky, cool way. And to me, that means instead of saying I'm taking my vitamins, I say, oh, I'm going to the apothecary. So while I was in that space, I was like, oh, I want to name other parts of my apartment, the things that they used to be. So I was like, where do I have a haberdashery in here? And I just don't know it. Like, what's a haberdashery? And so anyway, a hat or a header and a milliner are essentially the same thing except hatters worked with men's hats and milliners worked with women's hats. Oh okay. But a haberdasher, which is like it's such a weird gray line because I think you could be a hatter maybe start

like a small hattery business and then become a haberdasher later. Hmm. Or you could downsize and become a hatter from being a haberdasher. Because a haberdasher is someone who works with men's clothing, I think all clothing, but mainly men's clothing, and the fine accessories of that. So like sewing buttons and zippers, and like a Joanne Fabrics is a haberdashery. Oh, even though they don't make stuff really for you?

It's like a stuff really for you? It's like a surplus or for your clothing. Oh, so you buy the supplies there. So would it be like, who would shop there? Because I'm assuming fancy men did not make their own clothes. Okay, so like a tailor would go. I feel like in today's world, if haberdasheries, as they're named, expanded, I feel like they would have kind of made

some sort of collaboration with like CVS and been like half haberdashery, half pharmacy slash apothecary. Oh, okay, wow, I had no idea. So it's like bolts of fabric, that kind of thing? Fabric, sewing utensils, buttons, zippers, ribbons, laces. Why didn't they call it Joanne's haberdashery? Girl, you said it, not me.

We'll talk to Joanne, I'll ask her. I will say that I- Joanne? Michael? So if you have a sewing kit, you do have a mini haberdashery in your home. I do. It's from CBS.

Wait a minute. So I told you I thought they might have something going on. It's like big pharma but big fabric, you know. So anyway, I now do call my that where I keep all my hats the Hattery on principle. Excellent. And milliners did more like I think like bonnets and things like that. Fun fact again, they were called milliners because most of the fabrics for women's hats came from Milan and so they were called Milaners and now they're milliners. I did not know. I did not know. Look COVID was a crazy time and I needed to take my vitamins.

For this reason only. Okay, anyway, all that to say this guy was was we don't know if he was a mad hatter I don't know if he was in the business long enough to actually get serious mercury poisoning, but he was a hatter He built this house. It was in 1832 and three years later He was like I'm out and I'm moving and I'm I don't want to be here anymore So I guess the hat business was overwhelmingly good or overwhelmingly bad. Yeah, it seems like it was not fulfilling

one way or another. So he sells his home to a man with a name that just feels like Lemony Snicket wrote it himself. This guy's name is Sea Berry Treadwell. And Sea Berry is sea like the ocean, C-S-E-A, and then Berry, Sea Berry Treadwell. So- Like Berry like a body,

or Berry as in like oops all berries? Love that, Berry like a body. Okay, so like Sea Berry, sort of. Sea Berry, Sea Berry Treadwell. That's the craziest fucking name I've ever heard. If he wasn't a rich man in the 1800s, no one was. Name alone, and he's probably evil. He has a secret passageway for sure. He has like a twirly mustache. There's no doubt. Yes. Yes. I feel like he looked like the Monopoly man. He's all about capitalism. There's no way he's not.

Well, you're right. I was gonna say the evil version, but then I went, well, I guess he has already a pretty evil version. The Monopoly man is not kind to all, I'll tell you that. Certainly not. Not me anyway. So, Seabury buys this house and he was a merchant, which is how we get merchants house.

But I don't understand why you would name a house, if you're gonna name a house, why would you name it after your profession and not yourself? Like the Seabury Treadwell House? Yes, right? Yeah, I mean, come on. Like the Seabury Treadwell, not even house,

like the Seabury Treadwell- Manor. Manor, domain, I don't know, there's some better words. Estate, the Seabury Treadwell Estate. Now that has some power behind it, yeah. But like to, I mean, I don't think he knew, maybe it was like a popular name then and he didn't know how powerful it would sound later,

but like to not use that name in naming your own home is insane. Agreed, maybe he was a mad hatter. Maybe. And so, yeah, he called himself, he called it the Merchant's House, which house too, of all things, like so boring, like get creative. And it was this very exquisite house. It had a parlor, it had two kitchens at the time.

Yikes. It had a parlor, it had two kitchens at the time. Yikes, it had servants quarters. And I will say another fun fact is that the bedrooms were painted oyster white. Now that got me thinking, Christine, just how many shades of white are there? Would you like to venture again? Well, I learned that eggshell is not a shade of white. It's like the patina of the white. It's like whether it's gloss, it's like a level of gloss.

Cause I thought eggshell white is like a certain shade. Anyway, fun fact, we're full of them today. How many shades of white paint or just like white? Paint, paint. Oh, paint, okay. And I did not do at the time of 1835. I thought it'd be more fun to do now. Just now, oh, 415.

Okay. You're not that far off. One website had the fucking audacity to tell me over 150,000 shades of white paint exist. All right. Yeah, relax. Um, I guess technically if you put one microscopic drop of black in it as we go, yes. Um, I guess that's fair technically. Yeah. But I looked up Pantone cause I was like, they're probably a fair place to start. And I got different answers,

but it looked like somewhere between 120 and 400, shades of white exist in Pantone. Okay, I was gonna guess like 350, so maybe I'll just stick with my whatever I said, 400 some. Yeah. Anyway, that still overwhelms me because in my mind it was like maximum a dozen. So, whoops. So Seabury moved into the house with his wife, Eliza and their children and his Irish servants,

which for some reason were all women, but I think maybe that was common at the time because they needed a place to stay when they were spinsters, I don't know. Well, I think people would come from other countries and did not have much, and so they would have to work, you know, like in jobs like this. I think a few of them came in that way.

Others, it seems like this was their just career. And then other people, apparently at one point they had one Irish servant who was a 14-year-old girl. I don't know her story, but apparently all ages and reasons for why they were there vary. But they were usually Irish women. Um, and they were replaced every decade. I guess they were only good enough for 10 years. And the Treadwells lived in the house for nearly a century, so that's 10, 10, 10, so that's 100 and four women each.

So that's like 400 women have passed through the house, I think. That's like as many Pantone colors. I know, and they were all white, I'm sure. If they were Irish, maybe, you know, there's a good chance of that. Anyway. I don't think so. So according to an 1855 census,

the servants at the time, there was up to like 21 people living in this house in the 1850s. Jesus. It's giving Duggar. No thank you. And a lot of them were servants, but a lot of them were the kids. They had eight kids.

And at this point, a lot of them were married and I think still either living at the house or still had their like official address at this house. So how big is this damn house? Pretty dark, like big enough to not be called a fucking house. Like I don't know why he called it merchants house Maybe he was trying to prevent all these people from showing up and they just kept coming he's like Tiny shack. It's a shack. It's a treadmill shack The Seabury the Seabury shed, you know, I feel like he oh they should have called it the shed well Okay, see now we're talking.

Yeah, yeah. And you know what, you might be onto something because Seabury is known to not be a very kind person. So maybe he really was like, get the fuck out of my very small house, despite what you see, it is so small. That's too passive for a mean person. Outwardly mean person would be like,

this is the biggest mansion you've ever seen, get the fuck out. You wouldn't try to pad his excuses with calling it a shack. You know, that's a good point. And so it was him, his wife, they had eight kids and their names were Elizabeth Horace, Mary, Samuel, Phoebe, Julia, Sarah, and Gertrude. And Gertrude is kind of the main star of this story. So she was the last one to be born. Fun fact, she was the last one to live in the house.

Another fun fact, she was the only one to be born and die in the house. Oh boy, in and out. In and out, and she died in the house in The 30s when she was in her 90s in the 1930s when she was in her 90s, okay But yeah, she like literally slept. I think in the bed. She was born in how fucking crazy And then if she died peacefully in her sleep she was born and died in the exact same spot. How true? Wow That's so of course. She's a fucking ghost here. Like literally her entire life. What is this fucking go? Yeah

Did she ever go anywhere else? I don't know Gertrude I got a you got to feel bad for her because the New York Times they did an article about her and They described her as tiny, withered and hemmed in by ugliness. Yuck, that poor woman. What? In the same article, they described her style as beautiful, but museum pieces.

Don't put, okay, don't put butt next to anything, even though Em literally said, you look beautiful for an ugly person or whatever. But you know, that was out of friendship, not just being nasty. Imagine if I was a reporter and I just, for no reason without your consent, just said, you know what, I'm gonna write about this.

I will say- They always did that. I don't know why they would describe people. I mean, it's just fucking rude. I will say she was dead at this point. So hopefully she does not know but Still why are we talking about a dead old little lady about this like this? Oh so Yeah, she was hemmed in ugliness and she wore things that should be behind glass in a museum. Yuck So in ugliness is the wildest thing I've ever heard like Like hemmed it, like I feel like sewn into ugliness.

Like maybe she had a shot. That's horrifying. Wild. And this family, they're known like to their house to this day has not changed a lot since it based on how it looked in the 1830s. And that includes their style. So maybe she was already wearing like, I don't know if vintage was cool back then, but maybe she was just

trying out some vintage pieces and then the New York Times was like, ugh, not the look. She found a mercury brimmed hat in the closet from the guy who used to live there and was like, I guess I'll wear this. Okay, but that would be a cool story. I think so. So, yeah, she was not described as the best looks wise, I guess, but she was also known to be a recluse and she never left the house probably because she was so ugly. Yeah, really.

And she really didn't change much about the house and she was a kid. So when she died there, and she was the last of the treadwells to live there, the house was kind of described as a time capsule. It had everything from three generations of people. It had the original furniture, it had original books, it had original sketchbooks, so like they had drawn things decades ago and the sketchbooks were there.

They had the same clothing, they had the same Bible that even like when she was born, her parents wrote her time of birth into the Bible and it was like just there. And after she died, a relative of the family ended up buying out the house and he wanted to keep it totally as is, including all the items,

where they sat when the family was there. So like they're still sitting exactly where they were. They tried to open it as a museum. It was, I guess doing okay, but he was suffering. Basically when he died, the museum was also like in a bad spot. So in the 50s, 60s, the museum was taken in by the DCNYC, which is the decorators club of New York City.

taken in by the DCNYC, which is the decorators club of New York City. Oh, okay. And they are described as the country's oldest professional women's organization of interior designers. They currently have an active Instagram that I crapped through. They are still doing the thing. I love that they're like keeping up with the times too. If they did a TikTok, I would watch it. I might like it.

I might even like it. I might even send it to my friend, Em. I would send it to you for sure. I'd be like, look at them, they're killing it. So in the 60s, after they took over, this building became the first Manhattan landmark. And a year later, it became a national historic landmark. And they ended up getting in touch with an architect from NYU called Joseph Roberto who

helped save the building from collapse. And they were able to preserve, Christine, they were able to preserve every single inch of this house all the way down to the furniture and art on the walls. And so every single thing you see in there, perfectly restored. And it looks as it did and everything is in good condition. You know I love that. You know I love that. And also like how cool to have a haunted place where the ghosts are like,

well, it looks exactly the same. I don't even need to walk through a wall to get to my old bedroom. Like it's all the same. Yeah, Blueprint theory who? Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. However, Blueprint Theory Who, you know? Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. However, during the renovations, this did exactly what it always does, and it disturbed

the ghosts in the building. And ever since then, the place has been haunted. At least that's as far back as we know. I imagine Gertrude, who watched probably her whole family be born and die in this house. I'm sure there were ghosts beforehand, but... I think so. Maybe she was just like reclining until they started the construction.

Yeah, well, so after construction, it started happening. People started hearing footsteps in empty rooms. People heard Gertrude's piano playing itself, even though it could no longer work. They would even hear it outside of the house. It was so loud. So when they had closed up, people walking on the side of the street would hear piano just like, blaring in there.

Heart and soul, I fell in love with you. Oh, hold on. Let me start over. Roses, roses, spring of the year. Okay, I know we recorded three weeks ago about that. I will never forget. I will never forget that clip and then Megan put it in the fucking TikTok and reel. Oh my gosh. Yeah folks, if you have not seen that reel of us watching Zach Bagans like singing his like own weird-ass

love song with a piano and banging on a piano, please go look at it. It's delightful. I Yeah, your soul is like a snow-blown butterfly. Um... I mean, it's beautiful. So, people started hearing her piano playing, even from outside. As word spread about the spirits,

more stories started coming out, especially from that one architect who helped the decorators, uh, save the building. He was like, oh, this place is haunted. Like there are some ghosts here. And neighbors started claiming here. Here's like one of the wildest stories is that people who still live nearby after Gertrude died, they like still would see her run out of the house. Like multiple neighbors saw this. They were all like, bitch, is she alive?

Like what, how, I thought she was dead. How did we all just see her? Why is she running out of the house? To shoo out the noisy kids to make them go play somewhere else. Wait, but so were there actual living kids there or no? There were kids that were noisy, I guess. And she did what everyone was thinking

and ran out of the house and like shooed them away and was like, go play somewhere else. Oh, she's like, so if you guys won't do it, I guess the dead lady has to do it. I'm still needed, I guess, yeah. Wow, okay, I thought you meant like she used to do that in life and so it was just repeating like her shooing her own kids out or something,

but you're saying like there were other kids outside and she came out to be like, hush. Like the neighbors saw her shoe the children What the fuck? Okay, and all of them. I'm sure took a look at each other being like we all saw that Yeah, like what whatever playing on this block again, right? The way I would yank my own kid away from that property and be like i'm not kidding Listen to that ghost don't go back there because I don't want you to hear that house anymore

Like I don't care about drinking. You do whatever you want, but do not go back by that fucking house. Oh, but you know that kid who got shooed away by her, then went to high school and was like, I was one of those kids. I saw her. I saw her. Oh yeah, I was one of the Fourth Avenue Seven,

or whatever. I don't remember them any of their work. I was in the Fourth Avenue Seven or whatever. I don't remember the money they were. I was in the newsies apparently, yeah. And, yeah, no, you know I would totally brag about that. And I would have like a sick, sick crush. Like it would be so unhealthy the way I would be in love with the person who like had a real encounter the whole town knew about with the ghost.

I thought you meant the old ghost lady. I was like, we have to dive into that later. I don't think this is the time. I thought you meant you'd be, I feel like you and I would be those people who'd be like, yeah, we were there, but we were like down the street getting ice cream from the ice cream truck.

And we like weren't, we were sort of supposed to be there. Yeah, you just hope that the people who were there don't ever catch wind that you're pretending you were there. Yeah. I feel like that's for us. We missed it. If I ever heard someone say, oh no, I was one of the kids, I would have been like, I have to date you.

I just want to date you so badly. It wouldn't even matter anything else about them. You'd be so thirsty to be there. Yeah, no. I 100% know that that is true. We would go in as high schoolers and do the thing that I did in high school and would break into abandoned houses.

We would break into the Treadwell all the time and I'd be like, you know, one time I dated the guy who got yelled at by her. You know, I would find a way to- It was my first kiss. Oh, I would kiss, I think I would kiss him, her, or them just to have the story. Turns out he was really in love with the old lady ghost.

So I never stood a chance. It's anyway, everyone saw her yell at the kids. And on top of that, there is another ghost there thought to be another one of the Treadwell daughters. Because remember, there was eight kids there. They assume it's one of the Treadwell daughters, maybe Gertrude herself and like a younger version of her. But the house has a ghost called the brown lady because she's wearing brown. I feel like we could have named her something else. There's also a woman in a black gown and thank God I did not see anyone

say black lady. In brown. Why would you you say brown like lady and brown lady and white lady and black lady? I know I know round lady Brown lady and thank God the one in the black gown is not called the black lady. There is one in a black gown Yeah, and there's one and a white gown Like they're like they just like got lots of representation here, yeah. So there's a lot of women in gowns pacing the halls. Maybe it's all the same person who's just trying on different outfits. She still has all the same clothing from back then, you know?

Yeah, like leave her alone. Well, the woman, I'm just gonna say the woman in white, not the white lady. I'm gonna going to say the woman in white, not the white lady. I'm going to change the narrative. The woman in white, they think is Elizabeth. And I think they are pretty confident. They very, they actually would say it is definitely Elizabeth. Because is that the wife or the daughter?

So good, good catch because the wife was Eliza and they had an Elizabeth daughter. Okay. because the wife was Eliza and they had an Elizabeth daughter. OK. So woman in white, they think is Eliza. Sorry, you fucked me up as Elizabeth, because they literally I don't know if they still do it, but for a time, the house literally had a binder full of pictures of these people and like charts and everything. So if you saw someone, you could just go reference the pictures and see who it was. And so they, this one guy who worked there, his name was Anthony.

He said he was sitting on the stairs one time and felt someone coming down the stairs and looked up and Elizabeth was leaning over the stairs staring at him. And Anthony even said that he felt their eyes connect, like that they both knew they saw each other. That must be the wildest feeling because when I saw that ghost at the Whaley house, I did not have any feeling like he knew I or anyone was there. So it really is it must be like a next level jarring to like realize I see you they see you well it's one of the like yeah it guarantees that they're at least for you

it guarantees for yourself that it's not a residual thing that it intelligently recognizes yes yes oh and so I guess he looked at the pictures later and he was like that was absolutely Elizabeth. Another story about Gertrude and why she is still here. It seems that it always ends with like some sort of heartbreak, but she allegedly fell in love with a doctor. One source said medical student, not a doctor, but his name was Louis Walton. The problem was that he was Catholic and they were Protestant. And Seabury Treadwell himself said, my daughter is not going to be with any Catholic.

Absolutely not. You shut that shit down. And so Gertrude ended up having to live in the house for the rest of her life because she didn't want to be with anyone but Lewis and, uh, she didn't get to. So she just stayed a spinster. And interesting, at the time, this was around the time period where people started marrying for love and not as a transactional thing. And so a lot of them were choosing love

instead of this being a business decision. And three of the eight children decided that they were not gonna get married at all. So they might've really loved the double income no kid situation. They might've had a good time over here. Yeah, they were ahead of their time. Yeah.

Another fun fact I have is that just to talk about the building one more time, there's a movie in the 40s. Although wouldn't that be Single Income if you're not getting married? Oh, you're right, Single income, no kids. They'd be sinks, not dinks. Hmm. That's fine. Good for you. Good for them.

In the 1940s, there was a movie called The Heiress, which was an adaptation of like a play and a book and all this. But the movie won an Oscar for set design. And part of the set was recreations from the merchant's house. No way. So I don't know if they want any actual awards for the real design,

but the movie version of the house got an Oscar, so. That says something. And in the movie, the story centers around a woman who fell in love with a man that her father forbade her from marrying. So very similar to Gertrude. There you go. Um, anyway, so back to her.

She ended up not marrying anybody because she could not be with Louis, and people speculate that she's still there, drowning in her own sorrow. Um, but it could also be that maybe she just doesn't want to leave because this was literally the only place she ever knew. Yeah.

And also, Gertrude is not currently the biggest fan of guests in her home, but that's probably because she was not much of a social butterfly in life either. So she's probably like, why are all these fucking people in my house? Yeah, and then the second she goes out, they're like, oh, you're so ugly. Like, what good happens outside? Nothing. Oh, my God. I, yeah. Poor girl. Poor girl.

Many people now report seeing Gertrude herself like as a full body apparition. People have even said that they have been denied entry at the door. So like, I love that she's got boundaries. Wait, she blocks you from coming in. That's great. She's like, yeah.

One group said that a reenactor in period clothing came up to them, came up to them at the front of the museum and said, oh, the museum's closed for the day, which it was not. And also nobody dressed like that, that was employed there. Dude, okay. But the fact that she lied, like she knows it's a museum and she says the museum is closed today. It's like, wait, what?

So she's like in on it. Like she has her own little plan. Yeah, it's wild that the, that the ghosts know the like the updates of the house, which like you would think that's so trippy because in my mind I'm like the ghosts never know or I guess maybe residually they never know. And that's why the blueprint theory is so important because they need to know how to get around.

They can't see the new doorways, right? They're just using their own memory of it. But at the merchant house, the one place where they, like they never touched anything and so we don't have to worry about the blueprint theory. It's the one time the ghosts would actively not acknowledge the blueprint theory and be like, oh, well it's a museum now. I know how to walk around this new place. Like this is the one place where they should have been able to roll with the

new updates and they don't actually have to. Yeah. And ignore. Yeah. So do you know if she actually said the museum is closed quote unquote or did she say like get out? And they were like, oh. Well, I mean, she said the place is closed today. I don't know if she used the word museum, but she did say like, hours of operation are closed. So maybe she was like thinking they were there for a new hat or something, or whatever.

Whatever used to happen there, I don't know. Maybe she's like, we're closed today, and also why are you wearing those weird clothes? Those weird futuristic clothes. I know. You would think she would be like, oh, maybe I, compared to your current stuff, I guess I do look ugly, compared to like,

if someone who wears your clothes saw me, obviously. Like someone in a hundred years is gonna see my clothes and be like, that's the fuggliest person I've ever seen in my life. So maybe. I don't think so. 100 years ago, if we look at people from the 20s, we're all like, oh my God, flappers, I wanna look like them.

So 100 years, you might be an icon. It would have to be like divisible by 30 or something, because isn't it like every 30 years it repeats? Yeah. Isn't that the thing? 100 years from now, people think it's all vintage, but we have to go like a middle ground where it's where it's getting made fun of by young people.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do think that she knows it's a museum. And we'll get to that in a second with another story. But I think she knows that it's a museum. That is so crazy. Because one time after that, another group of people were stopped by a man in period clothing and he said that you cannot continue on the tour. You have to head back to the front. Oh, that sounds a little... So at least somebody knows. So she probably does too.

Wow. Do we think it was Ebenezer or whatever his name is? Yes. Seabury Kingsworth. They later walked past a portrait of Seabury Treadwell and realized it was him. And- Oh my God, so he and his daughter are like, "'Yep, we work here."

Yeah. They're like, we need a new tactic. We need to fake like we're one of these futuristic people. I like to think they high five when they get more people out of the house, they can just have it to themselves. They're like, oh, got another one. And they're like, nobody knows.

Seabury, like I said, he is said to be kind of nasty to other people. I mean, he was already very close-minded to his daughter finding love. He named the merchant's house the merchant's house instead of the Treadwell Shedwell or something. That's the most egregious mistake of them all. Yeah, he clearly does not have an open mind or open heart.

So he's said to be quite nasty to people. And people have sense of very oppressive and intimidating energy, especially young women. And many people have been like overcome with panic attacks, distress. They've fainted in the house. People have seen mists and smelled tobacco and that's kind of assumed to be him. Also in Seabury's room, a medium one time on an investigation, a medium sense that something wanted the lights off. And so when she said out loud, does someone want the lights off? The entire group saw the closet door shake because something huge banged against the door from the

inside. And there's EVP evidence of it. And it really sounds like someone like threw a shoe at the door. So it's almost like, do we know now? Do they mean yes or no? That's not very clear. It's just an outburst. Do they want the lights off or not? It was just an outburst. Yeah, it's like, we need you to use your words. Yeah, use your big girl words.

Use your talking skills. Oh no. Yeah, but it was in his room. It was very aggressive, whether or not we know what the answer was. And even weirder, the employee Anthony, who also saw Elizabeth on the stairs, he was at this investigation,

and when he saw the door shake, he wanted to tell his sister right away, so he pulled his phone out in the room and he watched his battery, his full battery go, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, and then his phone died. So he watched the battery drain instantly. I feel like we're learning a lot about ghosts in this particular, like from this family.

Like they're teaching us new things. And like they know way too damn much about our equipment and stuff like that. They're like next level. Like I wonder if they've, I don't know how they figured this all out, but they must've studied up because they're like, oh, I know.

He's like, he pulled a phone out. All right, I'll do it. Like what do they do? They like put their hand through it and it just like depletes. I don't know. You know, one of my favorite stories from when I was ghost hunting was that I had to teach a ghost

how a phone worked. And I've, so in my mind, I'm like, had someone else already- You can barely teach a grandparent how a phone works. Like that's too much of a task. That's too much work. But how much did they know? Who taught them or like how come they knew

and the ghosts I taught didn't know, you know? Yeah, exactly. Like maybe somebody taught them like you did. Yeah, or maybe they're just, people are coming in all the times they see phones more often and they were like, I, or maybe they weren't even trying to fuck in all the time so they see phones more often and they were like, or maybe they weren't even trying to fuck with the phone. Maybe just by being near the phone,

they sucked out the energy. They used the energy, yeah. Maybe they like realize if they touch that weird thing that people hold, it'll like stop working. I don't know, maybe there's some like Ghost Logic. I feel like it really could. Ghost Logic, a new brand by M&Christine. Ghost Logic sounds like a really cool punk clothing store.

That's what I'm saying. TMT, TMT, TMT, yeah, T motherfucking M. I feel like, for all we know, they were just trying to look over his shoulder and see what was going on and accidentally suck the energy away, but Anthony, the employee saw it as, oh, you don't get to call anybody, you can't cry for help. And they're like, no, that's not what I meant. Yeah, sorry. Anyway, also in-

You'll never speak to your lover again, just like my daughter could never speak to her lover again. You should be an audio book voiceover artist. Oh, that's so funny you mention that because we did write a book and I knew we would find a way in the middle of one of our stories to insert that for the people who sneaky sneaky sneaky skip the intro and by the way you skipped how I almost killed us all in a

snowbank accident so you know first of all whose loss is it really? Second of all we did write a book and now that I'm yelling at you you're probably not gonna pre-order it but please do you couldn't find it on the internet so anyway it's called Haunted Road Atlas next stop And thank you so much for that unintended sagoo that you gave me. Maybe it was an intentional plug in you, so I know it. But yeah, pre-orders are very important. And if you could do that, the link is in our show notes.

So thank you so much. Wow, so smooth. Anyway, back to this. Anyway, here's a picture in Seabury Treadwell's house. This is into a mirror when no one was standing there. Okay, is it going to be a text? It is sending currently. In a mirror you said? Sorry. Oh what? Wait, wait, wait, hold on. So the person is taking... So the the mirror was empty. They took a picture at an angle to see if they'd catch anything. And then I know it's kind of hard, but the longer you look at it, the more you see a

very specific nose, face, eyes. You see a necklace, a shirt, like you see like patterns on the shoulder. Ew. It looks like an old timey monk. Look at his hair. Yeah. Like with, and then with the robe and the tassels, it looks to me like a monk. And so that picture was taken. Yikes. I hate that.

Oh my god that is so effing creepy. Here's the worst part. Another thing about Sea Berry Treadwell, I'm just trying to do all the Sea Berry stuff at the same time so we don't have to continue with him anymore after this. But I'm gonna send you a link right now. Okay. You're going to keep it open because throughout the rest of my notes, there are multiple time codes I want you to look at. But for now, I want you to go to marker 3440 and I'm going to explain to you what happened. Okay. So for those who are not Christine, this is a very big shout out to Haunt TV's World's

Scariest Hauntings. They did an episode on the Merchant's House and they talked specifically with someone who investigates there quite a lot. And the clip I'm about to... Haunt TV? That's cool. Sorry, is that a YouTube channel or is that like a TV? I think Haunt TV is like a network and one of their shows is World's Scariest Hauntings.

Wow. Okay. Okay. And so what you're going to hear, because the craziest thing about this house and one of the reasons I think people call it the Holy Grail is because their EVPs are out of control clear. Like it's... Oh. It feels... It sounds like somebody is literally there.

You don't have to guess, it's not a creepy whisper. It's not through a spirit box where you hear, shh, shh, shh, shh. So you're about to hear an EVP and basically they're in Mr. Treadwell's room and they're talking about the piano downstairs that's broken and shouldn't be playing anymore. And they ask Mr. Treadwell,

can you play the piano downstairs? Or do you, can you play the piano downstairs or do you know how to play the piano downstairs? And okay and we're at 3430 right? 3440. Oh I'm sorry. Okay 3440, should I hit play? We get a male voicing I strike the keys in succession. Did you know how to play the piano, Mr. Tredbrough? I strike the keys in succession. What? Wait, okay, I need to listen one more time. Did you know how to play the piano, Mr. Tredbrough?

I strike the keys in succession. Okay, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought this guy, like the host, was saying, oh, like I thought he was saying it first and then the ghost was like copying him, but he's describing what you're about to hear. He is describing, sorry. I think I did a few seconds too early, but-

Got it. It's really- It's really- So clear. Cause I thought it was just repeating. Hold on, I'm gonna hear it one more time. Did you know how to play the piano, Mr. Treadwell? I strike the keys. I strike the keys.

Okay, he's such a dick. He's like, yeah, I know how to play. I press down a key. Yeah, he says, I strike the keys. Oh, sorry, I guess we should tell people what he said. So Mr. Treadwell, they ask, you know, Mr. Treadwell, do you know how to play the piano downstairs? And then they get an EVP that says,

I strike the keys in succession. I don't personally hear in succession, but I do hear I strike the keys and I hear it so fucking clear. Oh, wait, what do you hear? I hear I strike the keys and then like a mumbling that I didn't really know. Do you hear in succession?

Hold on. I do hear in succession. Oh, okay. Cool. I just hear I tried to use so loudly. I think maybe also I was primed. Sure. But isn't that like the fucking craziest? Like it's so clear and weird.

I mean, it's like you can hear the timber of his voice. Like it's not just like, like some creepy sound that you have to try. It's like, oh, that's an old man talking. Like it's not it's clearly not like the young person who is speaking. It's like a completely new voice. And so I thought at first because the ghost hunter guy or whoever that is says, oh, we hear the ghost say, I strike the keys in succession.

But like when I was first listening to it, I thought the ghost was then like mimicking him talking. Like that's how clear it was. I thought like somehow that he had like mimicked that exact sentence, but no, the ghost said it first. Ooh, that is uninsolvable. It's so weirdly clear. And-

It's so clear. So anyway, that's Mr. Seabury, Mr. Treadwell. And keep that link open because in a little bit there's going to be another thing. This is so fun. I love this like interactive part. Well, there are other spirits in the house and some of them are former servants, especially in the kitchen. Investigators have sucks to that sucks to stay there. To work for life. Yeah.

For eternity. An investigator asked the spirits their purpose in the house and got an EVP very clearly of someone saying servant. And then a medium sense that women were harassed here it does not strike me as surprised at all. No. It does not strike me as surprised at all. Uh, and when they asked if the man who harassed them should be forgiven, the EVP, they got an EVP that said soul should be saved. I was really hoping the EVP would say absolutely not. You know, rotten hell. Ignore my weird dad.

He's such a creep anyway. Yeah. Oh, so also in the kitchen, there's still the original bells that the family would use to summon the staff and people still hear the bells ring. Also one time they left her a quarter in the kitchen when it was empty, when like the room was empty. And you hear this weird shrill scream EVP. It also kind of sounded like a sink was running which Is weird. So maybe they just got the faucet turning on Either it was like either way I didn't like it Also, many mediums here have gotten names and dates right away without any context about the house and they often get the name

Anne McNulty who was one of the servants Oh interesting to get the name Anne McNulty, who was one of the servants. Oh, interesting. She also will tell them about items throughout the house that no longer exists there, but older staff can confirm that it was once there. The mediums see it or, or you said? Mediums are speaking on Anne's behalf, who says, Oh, and here this used to be here. Oh, I understand. So, oh, the medium this used to be here. Oh, I understand. So the medium's hearing Anne describe. What? That's crazy.

Also, Anne is said to sing a lot to the mediums, and so investigators are starting to think that she was one of the children's nannies. And nearby, people hear the voice of children upstairs. Another Treadwell child in the house is Samuel that a lot of people say haunts the building with Gertrude and Seabury. But other sources said that it wasn't Samuel, it was Horace. So I'm just going to say both of them haunt the place. And they are somewhat pleasant. Apparently, if you run into them, they are fine.

They are not mean. They, one of them, you smell mothballs around him. Another one who we think is Horace. People have seen his full body leaning against a fireplace mantle, dressed in all black, and he looked like he was sad, like he was mourning. And keep in mind, this was a time when the parlors were used to host funerals.

So... Oh my gosh. And he was one of 10 in his family, like including the parents who, many of them died there. So maybe they're replaying part of his, one of the funerals in the house. What the fu... It's so weird to see like that,

that like glimpses from different scenes kind of pop through. Yeah. It's just crazy. It's just so trippy. If you died today and then people saw your full body operation replaying something, what would be the moment you think they would catch you replaying? Probably dropping a bunch of boxes or something. Like it would like sound really jarring, but in reality I just told myself I could carry like 16 boxes upstairs and then they all went tumbling down the stairs and then I had to

go down to one by one for each of them. Like I think it'd be something so stupid, but it would seem dramatic, right? Like, oh my God, this crashing and some something went flying down the stairs and it's like, no, just my laundry. I just thought I could carry everything upstairs. What about you, Em? I don't know, I feel like mine would be like the fridge door opening and closing nonstop.

I mean, like also same, yeah, relatable. So I feel like that's a good one. I could see myself in that same scenario, yeah. One woman who actually did see Samuel or Horace standing there in front of her thought that they were a real live person and had a whole conversation with him thinking he was alive and only when her boyfriend walked in later she turned back and all of a sudden that guy was totally missing. And they realized that he was one of the treadwheels. Okay. So these, this family, this TMTM again, because this seems like a good TV show. Like I know that they already have a show

called ghosts and stuff, but just this family like trying to stop people from having tours in their house. Like it's just, it's really good. I like, I did a premise for a lot of comedy. EVP is not included. For there to already be three instances where there's four instances where people have seen a live, living, seemingly living person interacting with them, where Gertrude's scaring away the kids...

Who actively sees them. Actively sees them, actively interacts with current living people. Gertrude, who scared away the kids. Gertrude, why? Wasn't there. Well, that's five then. Why? Wasn't there a lady who looked right at the guy on the stairs and they knew they saw each other? I mean, that's less interactive, but still he said, like...

Yeah, their eyes connected. And then Gertrude talking to a tour, Samuel or Horace talking to a tour, them having a conversation with him now. I mean, these are like... I mean, very intelligent ghosts. And I wonder if the whole family, like, what does that mean? Does the whole family get to be intelligent if most of them live here or?

Right, can they like teach Horace if he didn't catch on right away? Right, like is he just kind of like pacing the halls and everyone else is like, horse, get over here. You don't have to do that anymore. Just get away from the funeral. We can leave that now. You don't need to be sad in the parlor. I don't know.

I just wonder because like, what if, maybe it's because the house is situated a certain way or like built out of a certain material. Maybe it like just is better at channeling. I don't know. It could also be like stone tape theory of like, if enough death happened in the space, like the whole house absorbed it. So maybe it kind of shoots back all the same type of energy but

wouldn't that happen in like everywhere there were like mass casualties and stuff yeah yeah I don't know maybe they just spent so many decades there yeah I don't know I don't know that could be a lot of paranormal logic. A new brand by Emma Christine. Logic is obviously with a K and the G is maybe a J. Oh wait, it was Ghost Logic. Ghost Logic. I said it wrong, I think. That's okay.

Luckily we haven't signed any papers yet, so. I'm gonna, speak for yourself, holds up post-it note with my signature, sorry. I think it was Ghost Logic, because I remember already designing the logo in my head. But you know, I'm gonna team Paranormal, TMTM Paranormal Logic, just in case. Excellent, I can't wait to see,

and then immediately hop onto your business plan. Okay. Yeah. Other people have seen mists and shadows. There's even pictures, several, several pictures of figures showing up. A lot of them are humanoid bodies or shadows or people literally standing there on their own in the hall

or people standing next to visitors. Some photos even have a solid white, like human height glob. Like it's almost like the ink is missing from the photo. Oh, so it's like a shadow person, but like the negative of a shadow person. It's almost like it did not wanna be seen. And so it said like, when these photos develop,

I'm just removing myself from the narrative totally. And like the ink could not print it out. The pigment just didn't, ew. And then that figure is always standing next to the fireplace, so maybe it's Horace. Oh, he's just sad. People also say that the beds upstairs will unmake themselves, the chandeliers will swing,

people hear creaky furniture, even though it's been restored. The doors will open and close by themselves. There's banging on the walls throughout the house. People feel cold spots. Something touches them often, whether that's on your arm or poking you or patting you. People feel like they're getting touched all the time.

Again, they hear footsteps, they hear conversations in empty rooms. And this is where I might actually be replayed for the rest of eternity. People hear snoring on the couch. No, interesting. People also see like tea cups and random items moved around the house, but tea cups specifically,

as if someone is carrying it around drinking tea and then just leaves it somewhere. That would be me also, like just empty, like half empty coffee cups. Oh, you and all your cups. I would have cups in every, my trash piles would just like scatter all the time. Yeah.

It would be wild if, I mean, eventually if there's so many cups in a room, you don't notice if one is added or taken away. So maybe they just leave a pile of cups for you and like you can think you're tricking them, but they're actually not that scared because it just looks like a random pile of cups after a long time.

They're like, wow, we're really bad at dishes. Yeah. And it's true. Also, yeah, also I'm there. At a Christmas party in the building, employees did like a raffle and one of the gifts was a crystal dish. And one of the employees, I guess, who wanted it

had to come back into the office the next day to grab it. But it just sat on the middle of a big desk until she could pick it up. And when they walked in the next day, it was shattered on the floor. And there's no way it should have because it was sitting very sturdy on a very wide table. The only way it would have shattered is if it...

So they left it there alone. The only way it would have shattered as if it was tossed. That's not good. Also during one fundraising concert in the house, each of the musicians, one of them being that damn employee Anthony, they were doing like a little concert in one of the rooms and all of the musicians said that they felt something really off. They felt something like spiritually was weird. They felt like they were being stared at. And right before they started playing, one

of them felt a blast of heat behind her. Another was severely poked in the ribs. Another one felt really sick. And after the show, they were all comparing notes about, like, what happened to them. And people who were watching the show, like the audience members, uh, who were mingling with them now, overheard them comparing these experiences and said, oh, I wonder if it had anything to do with that, like, older woman who walked right past all of you

right before you started playing. Shut the fuck up. And multiple people, they were like, yeah, we thought it was weird that you just started playing and didn't acknowledge her walking right through like your, your scene. Um, but she walked across them, sat, sat down in the audience and then watched the entire concert perform. So they just thought she was a random performer or a random audience member. Oh, my God.

They were probably like, let's ask that old lady what she saw. I know. It's like, what old lady? So they assume that's Gertrude, but also like, why is she poking someone in the ribs right before their show? That's so cruel. Well, she's trying to get everybody out,

and then this Anthony shows up, and he's like, oh, I'm leading tours today. And then all of a sudden she's like, oh, I'm free. And then suddenly he comes back with a fucking violin and she's like, who the fuck? Like, I got rid of all the tours for today. Tonight's my time. And then he shows up, he's like, now I play the guitar.

Like, I don't blame her for being like, I have been trying to get rid of this guy and now he's playing music in my house and I'm trying to go to bed. I do appreciate that she at least gave up enough to sit down and watch the concert, but still, like, how wild that nobody... Because then I wonder, like, okay, they didn't see her

walk through the concert, but did they see an old lady sitting and watching? Like, did they only see half of her experience? Maybe she just walked past and then, like, kind of vanished, and nobody kind of knew where she went. No, like, a bunch of people said that they watched her walk across to a seat, sit down and then play. Oh, she sat! They saw her sit. Oh, I thought this was like a whole mingling the whole time the music is playing. I didn't realize it was like a seated thing.

No, it was a concert. That's even that's so much worse. So much worse. Yeah, so they all they all watched her just step right in and then sit down almost as if she was late for the concert. You know? God, I mean, she is the reason the concert is late. Yeah, I know.

And honestly, she should be like so grateful because they're trying to raise funds to keep the house so she can keep fucking with them. To keep it exactly the same, right? Like, yeah. One of the nicer spirits in the house is Eliza, the mom. Her room is most active, I guess. There's a lot of EVPs here. One investigator looked in the mirror and actually asked Eliza, this is where I'm gonna have you pull up that link again, and go to 2756.

So in Eliza's room, there was investigators and they walked past her mirror and one of them who, she decided she was gonna look in the mirror and talk to Eliza there, one of the investigators said, "'Eliza, do you think so-and-so said, Eliza, do you think so and so looking into the mirror, do you think she's pretty? And this is the clip of her response to that.

Treadwell, is it all right if I use your mirror? Do you think Holly's a pretty girl? Pleasant to know. I think Ollie's a pretty girl. I'm just trying to know. Oh! Holy shit! That's incredible. So like in a...

I don't know what I was expecting, but that was better. So in a socially passive aggressive way... He says, so he says, Do you think she's pretty to the ghost? And she and she fucking responds. Sorry, go ahead. She goes, pleasant enough. Literally pleasant enough.

And it like you can hear the intonation of like, pleasant enough. Like almost question like, you can hear her saying it, You could hear the eye roll as she's saying it. And you could hear the old-timey voice. Like it sounds like an old-timey voice from what you'd hear on an old phonograph or something. Like, it's amazing. Which is why I'm confused why in my notes I wrote that she's one of the nicer spirits.

I'm like maybe if she was nice to not fully be incredibly rude, I guess. Um, maybe like compared to her. Sure. Sure. Um, but yeah, apparently, I mean, I love that they were still so like snarky back then, like, I, you would think in my mind, they were just so posh though. Like they would only, even if it meant lying to your face Would have been like yes, very beautiful. Yes, but she was like I guess I would like all those

What yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say can we talk about that poor investigator? Who's probably lost sleep for the rest of her life that like people people who aren't even in the room think you're not that great I need you to listen to yourself right now because you come to my house and stand in my basement and go, hey, ghost, Harry, do you like Christine's baby or not? And I'm like, why would you even ask the question to open that door of,

hmm, great question, I've never thought about it, but I hate that baby. Like, why would you even open the door? And then you waltz on out Stir up your drama and waltz on out so don't even pretend like you would be so taken aback by this I do remember asking if the ghosts like you and they said yes I don't know did I say anything about your baby? You sure did it was the next question actually I do have it on video

So if we'd like oh, I should pull that up. That could be either a Patreon or an Instagram or something. I should say that's Megan. Yeah, let's do that on Patreon. Oh, let's do it on Patreon because we have a whole video that we've never done anything with, I don't think. Eva, correct me if I'm wrong. A whole video of us doing metal detecting

slash dowsing rods in the basement. It was a very weird time. It was a good time. For you. For you. But actually for me, they said they liked me. Yeah, so it's fine. But yeah, I feel like if they had words instead of the dowsing rod, they probably would have been like, enough, you know? And I would have said, that's fine.

I would have said, that's totally fine. Like, I'll take it. I don't need any pleasant enough. That's fine. I don't need some Evil old lady and you're right Maybe she is considered the nicer ones because if they asked Seabury Treadwell what he thought of her He would have probably been like yuck, you know, like said something. Yeah Yeah, or said something really creepy, you know, well, I have What?

Tell me what oh, I was just to say it could be like something really creepy like that He's really into the way she looks, you know well I have what tell me what oh I was just to say it could be like something really creepy like that he's really into the way she looks you know it could be bad either way yuck okay yeah you're right you're right okay I have another this is the last clip that I want you to go to but it's 39 45 okay this is the funnest thing I love love doing this. 39, 45. You're like curating a perfect little montage for me. 38, 25. 39, 45. What is 39, 45?

What is wrong with me? I'm like losing my mind. 39, 45. Okay, I'm there. So this is when they are talking to, they're doing an investigation in the house and they're in an area that a lot of children are seen. And the investigator is talking to the spirits of like,

oh, we have new people in tonight. Like, don't be afraid though. That's what he says. And then we got this response. Okay. That's a good question, sir. I am not afraid. Four fucking get about it.

That's the world. Why did they even put music under it? Like don't even put music. It's horrifying. I mean, is that not the, I mean, talk about like when Zachary Bagelbites is always like, class A EVPs, all of a sudden every EVP he's ever played as a joke.

I'm like, this is actually insane. Even the ones he allegedly faked are not as good. Like should we say what happened? We haven't told them yet. Yeah, so they say, I assume also Megan or whoever, please go ahead and play this, or Jack if you to insert the audio when you're welcome to.

But- Are we allowed to? I don't know. I feel like- I think we would need their permission. Maybe not. Can we just give them a big old shout out and say, go watch World's Scariest Hauntings? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's fine. Okay.

Jack, please insert. But yeah. So they tell the spirits, don't be afraid. And then you hear a kid's voice say, I'm not afraid. Ugh. Okay, can I say something? I don't think that sounds like a little kid. I think it sounds like an old, old lady.

Oh, they do sound similar. Let me listen one more time. But even though he said like, it's a child, the second I played, I was like, that's not a child, my dude. That is an old lady. But let me listen just to like, it's a child, the second I played, I was like, that's not a child, my dude, that is an old lady. But let me listen just to, like, see if I stand by that. And underneath that, you can hear a little girl say, I am not afraid.

That's a good question, sir. I am not afraid. It's that last part, because she goes, I am not afraid. Like, it sounds almost, like, frail. Uh-huh. Ooh. I am not afraid.

Which makes it worse because like I, the two scariest people to get possessed are children and old ladies. I think that's very true. It's bad. Yeah. Anyway, so, uh, and like all three of them that I just showed you, crazy clear, like clearest TVPs I've ever heard. Like it sounds like someone is just talking

into a microphone, it's crazy. And then the last super creepy story I have for you is that an employee was, guess who it was? Fucking Anthony. No, he- This poor man, he needs to quit. He's not getting the hint, I gotta say. He's not reading the room, boo buddy. If you get it, you get it. If you get it,. He's not reading the room, boo buddy.

If you get it, you get it. If you get it, you get it. Read the room, boo buddy. But so the creepiest, yeah, this is just the worst. He was about to close down for the night and he was going into rooms. His whole thing was like, you know, turn off the lights and stuff like that.

He goes into Gertrude's room. Again, this is the room where she like was born and probably died. like that. He goes into Gertrude's room. Again, this is the room where she like was born and probably died. The room was totally lit. It was wide open. All the doors were open. Windows were good. Like nothing was closed up yet. It looks like a tour had just left the room. But Anthony noticed that one of the doors that should be open was closed by itself and shouldn't have been touched by any of the visitors. So he was like, that's weird. Why is it closed? So he walks over to see why it's closed

and opens the door and looks inside. He doesn't see anything out of the ordinary, but when he closes the door again and is back out in the main room, everything was closed down. Lights were off, Everything was closed down. Lights were off. Lights were off. Windows were bolted. Doors were closed. And it was like he was the last person in the house and all the lights were off.

Someone had closed down instantly. It's like that horror movie trip where you like the suspense is building, the sense was building, you look, there's nothing. Phew, you turn and it's like, ah! You know, and he's like, opens the door with like probably full hesitation, like who's back there, what's nothing. Phew, you turn and it's like, ah! You know, and he's like, opens the door with like probably full hesitation, like who's back there, what's back there, opens it.

Okay, few, nothing, close it, and then everything's shut down. Like within a second, like the entire house is completely shut down and he's all by himself in this house. Like, which by the way- Absolutely not. Then that makes me think again, like, was that just a total loss of time and memory?

And like, did he close down the entire place and like, because like, like, mesmerized by the door. Well, my thought is like, what if there was something in there that like, he doesn't remember seeing, but he opens the door, something in there. He like looks eye to eye with and gets like, you know, he loses his, you know, he just kind of goes into a zone and then cleans everything and closes everything down, then walks back and re-opens the door.

And then comes back. Yeah, like in a possessed state almost. Yeah, possessed. Like somebody jumped him and then he like went through the house and then. Which I love that if they finally can possess a person they still do all of his chores for him. But I bet they're like, you don't mop very well

and you're not doing a good job dusting the candelabra. Let me show you, let me hop on in. There's this one fucking spiderweb you refuse to get, let me get it for you. Yeah, every day we all follow you around and go, please God, it's right there in front of you. I mean, who knows? I like that theory that he did do it.

He just doesn't remember. Which like, and then it would feel like a split second, which we hear so many times. That's almost worse. I know, I almost hope that he lost no time, but it really in a blink, someone else turned everything off, which then brings up the next piece, which is like, well, then why am I cleaning a damn thing

if you guys can do it in a second? Why don't you help me at night? Literally that. And also why even bother with this weird one door closed? Like, what is this weird, is it a prank? Like, are you trying to kick me out faster because I'm lingering too long? If in a second you can turn all the power off

and have everything shut out for the night, the second I leave, now I'm gonna spend the rest of my life wondering if when I'm not there, if you just turned everything back on in a flash, because you didn't want us to turn all your lights off. What the fuck? Maybe like-

I would start keeping a camera there all the time to see how often everything is being reopened without us knowing. Yeah. Like what if in the middle of the night, everyone's gone home and they've just opened all the fucking doors and now it's like someone could just come in. Or lit every lamp.

Yeah, I wonder if that door, that closet was like, they needed a distraction so that like they could do the rest of the house or maybe, I don't know, maybe they froze him for a minute. Like, stand here. I don't know, I don't know maybe they froze him for a minute like yeah stand here I don't know I don't know oh that's so freaky um anyway for years the house has now had an in-house paranormal investigator like literally he is just loves that his whole thing this is like the dream job is it fucking anthony if you say it's anthony I'm gonna start screaming shockingly not anthony but I imagine Anthony needs to go home.

He's getting like eaten alive by this place. Anthony needs like three weeks vacation, completely paid for at least. From a, in a different, required a different state. Just like leave town for a bit. No, the in-house paranormal investigator, his name is Dan Sturgess, he's done easily over a hundred investigations here.

And he's the one who got all those EVPs I showed you. He's very prominent in the show, World Scariest Hauntings. Okay, I was like, I've seen this guy before, I think. Maybe like on some guesting on another show or something. Probably. In 2020, during COVID, the museum closed and it was the first time in almost 200 years that there was an empty stretch and people were like, what the fuck do you think the

ghosts are up to? Like, do you think they like that we're finally away from them? Like what do you think's going on? Do they miss us? And so just to, I guess, keep stirring the pot, they did investigations during COVID. And I think it was like a skeleton crew, like the museum just did their own investigations, but they would bring in like touchscreen monitors to see if anyone would mess with the monitors.

Investigators tried to communicate with people. And I mean, they got a lot of evidence during COVID, but shortly after in 2021, the museum launched their own monthly live streamed YouTube series called In the Spirit of Science, where now they have scientists come and investigate the house with the answer. Shut the fuck up.

This is amazing. And in each episode, Dan and others get together to discuss paranormal updates since you last saw them, and they talk about a paranormal topics. Like recently they covered like ESP or they covered like a specific house or... And this is on YouTube? It's on YouTube. It's called In the Spirit of Science, which is so smart because they literally just have scientists doing spiritual stuff.

I mean, this is the dream. I love this. I love this. The museum, like I said, looks like it did back in the day. They've touched very little of the structure. One source even said that this is the only house left in New York City from the 19th century that is perfectly intact inside and out. It's all original, including the family's belongings.

And today, however, the merchant's house is threatened by construction for a new high rise next door, which I guess they had experts come out and the vibrations from the construction next door will severely catastrophically damage the plaster work and structure of the house. And so the museum site or the museum website has resources available for people to get involved in saving the merchant's house again. Although I think they already like green lit this building. So it's like definitely gonna happen.

But I guess while the house is still there. What about the earthquake that just happened, I wonder. Oh yeah. Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. But anyway, they still currently at least host tours. And if you would like to help fund the building, you can do that at their website.

So that's the merchant's house. Wow, that was a doozy, Em. I loved that story. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here. You, Em. I loved that story. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here. You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

You're so welcome. I just went on their website. I'm loving it. I mean, just the fact that they have this gorgeous ornamental plaster work, like what are these called? Medallions like above the chandelier. It's just like, all right, I'll give you five bucks

I want this place to stay pretty you got me, you know if they're already doing the A youtube live stream every month and they have an in-house paranormal investigator I think they're only one step away from like doing some winchester mystery house level tiktoks I'm saying i'm saying saying, we should check if, maybe they are. Maybe they are. Let's get them viral guys.

Cause if they went viral and then everyone donated like a dollar, the house would be totally fine, right? I like how I'm like, make them viral. And then I'm like, we're not, we can't make ourselves viral. I don't know how we're gonna tell everyone else to make them viral, but. Please preorder our book by the way. Um, yeah Oh, oh, it's so funny. Em mentions a book we wrote

Um, this is very cool though. Um, i'm like Super into this. Thank you for um, telling me about it. They even have a little logo. That's like look drawn like the house It's very precious. Beautiful. Well, thank you. That was, that was very fun. And now we have to talk about something terrible. So is it my turn? Oh, it's like every week almost it seems.

Yes. It's almost like one day it'll change, but actually it never will. So I have a story for you today that I'm, I'm like, unclear on how well you know this one. And it's a rarity, I guess, that like you'd have, like occasionally you have insider knowledge on some of the topics, like the Duggars

and Jared from Subway and like things that you've experienced in pop culture. This one I wonder because it's something I was heavily invested in. And I don't know if you were as well. This is a story of Ruby, Frankie and eight passengers. OK, I don't know. I I know of it, but I don't know. I know. Like when it went viral originally and there was like some information coming out,

I know like the first few days of information kind of. I did not research it. I assumed you would cover it at some point, so I kind of avoided it. Oh, yes, yes. But so do you know, I guess what I'm wondering is like, do you even know like much about the family at all or like their channel? No, I never watched their channel. I only found out about them as a crime so yeah okay I know about them as a YouTube like they were a vlogging family. Yes exactly um so yeah I was wondering what you're like because I have a weird um you know how you have your uh kind of sick fascination with the Duggars and all that and kind of like the hyper Christian families. My fascination is like YouTube drama.

And I don't know why, because it's always drama about people I've never seen or heard of. But I got like way into like drama about Tana Mongeau, never even heard of her. I would watch like every video, like drama about Shane Dawson. Like I follow all that. Oh, I remember you making me learn all about the Shane Dawson stuff. I remember. I was like drama about Shane Dawson. I follow all that. Oh, I remember you making me learn

all about the Shane Dawson stuff. I remember. I was losing my mind. I was like, oh. And you had never mentioned that name to me ever before. No. But you were in town and you were, I think it's because you were in town

and so you needed to vent about to somebody I was the only person nearby. And you're the only one who would, no, no. I thought you would be the only one who knew. Oh, no, you made me watch the whole hour-long breakdown video. And you were like- I sure did. I've already watched this three times, but we have to watch it again.

And then you just, and I didn't even have a say. Yeah, I made a blaze watch it. No. And then we, Blaze and I had a thing out and like we took a week, a long weekend one time in like 2021 or something. And I was like, oh, I downloaded some YouTube videos about like this new scandal, James Charles. And he's like, oh my God, Christine,

like we're out in a cabin in the woods to like have a romantic like getaway. And here I am like, I know there's no internet, so I downloaded a bunch of Memorize by heart you would know every word. I know I'm like watch this part. This part's crazy like I just Like the like um, what's his name the Ohio kids those fucking dumbass kit brothers sheafers The Luke Luke Paul and oh Luke Paul and Jake Paul bullshit.

Oh, the Logan Paul and Jake Paul, yeah. Oh, Logan, what am I talking about? Jake and Logan Paul, like I only follow the drama about these, and then when I learned about family channels and that drama, I was like, oh boy, so the Ace family, listen, I know all, I've never watched a single one of any of them, except I've watched all the drama channels who like play you the videos and stuff.

With the Paul brothers, who was the one that was on the Disney channel? Cause that one I know a lot about, but I don't know. Jake Paul was, I think, right? The one who was, cause I have a friend who worked with him quite a lot. And I've heard stories about his time at Disney, but I don't know anything beyond that other than like their, I think, not liked?

I don't know. I am very, I don't know them. Yeah. Well, I feel so out of the loop. Good thing, good thing I'll download a bunch of clips for you, because I have, honestly, I could cover, I could probably do my own spin-off on just these drama channels. I just find them so fascinating.

I mean, not the drama channels, but the stories they cover, because I mean, truly, with this 8 Passenger stuff, I've been following this YouTube drama about when it comes out for years, and then suddenly it boomeded into this like massive, real horrible crime. And it's like, wow, it felt like I watched it happen. You know what I mean?

Like I watched it devolve into like- That's how I feel about the dog tears. Yes, yes, okay. So I totally get it. And like, nobody really is that interested in this except me. So I hope people, well, not nobody, but nobody like in my life. Obviously, many people are interested, but...

Is this the family who where the son was like, wildly punished, like, ridiculously, like the punishments did not fit the crime? Uh-huh. Okay. Then I remember, I remember I think before this ever became a crime, I remember seeing something come up in my algorithm about like, look at how this like mom like really does like raise her kids properly.

Fucked up like, yeah. So that's all the shit that I would follow because it was literally just drama or like tension about like, this is child neglect, you know, like people screaming, but like there's nothing you can do about it. So it was almost like more on the drama side, but yes, exactly.

It like kept escalating and then all of a sudden it broke that like it's gotten 20 times worse. And everyone watched it happen. It's not cool, but like definitely fascinating that we can like watch over the years, live as these things develop and turn bad. And it's just so crazy. And because it's on the internet,

even though they delete all their shit, there's copies, people downloaded it, right? So they can't escape. We have a full timeline on video. Yeah, well, it's so interesting because no generation before probably ours, like we were like the YouTube generation, like the first kind of, of its kind, if you will.

Like there was no way before like diaries, there was no frame of reference for the fact that like in today's world, you can fully get attached to someone's every in and out of their life. So fun fact, there was, but it was still on the internet. It was family blogs. And we were not really in that age group yet

because we were too young, but I guess there was a group of Gen X, I imagine, who got really attached to strangers families via blogs and it was such a brief window because like video came out obviously but apparently there was this window where people would just like write family blogs for their to send their families and then people they were public so people started like subscribing to family blogs that they didn't know and it became like I do remember the see I didn't know. And it became like viral.

I do remember the, see I didn't know about that. I know, I remember growing up where we had blogs. And then I remember when people transition to vlogs and you'd have to correct people like, no, no, I have a vlog with a V. Like I remember that. Can't you hear how smoothly of awarded it's vlog? Cause some people, some of my friends had blogs

and some of them had vlogs. And I was like, I guess it's, I got two things to pay attention to now, but I didn't know about the family blogs thing. I knew about travel blogs. Yeah, so I feel like there were like fashion blogs, travel blogs, but apparently family blogs had its own audience.

And I bet it's just because we were not in the right demographic and like it makes total sense. So I'm gonna get into that a little bit. If you're totally not familiar with any of this, don't worry, I'm gonna explain it all. I know I just kind of like fangirled about YouTube drama, but it really is like that. And then like deep third eye meditations

are like all I listen to on YouTube. So it's like a very weird algorithm. Em just watches beige. But you know. I was going to say RJ has it so easy. Oh, RJ watches beige. That's true. That his history when he's not around, it's like literally just a boring color light.

But if you were borrowing his YouTube, he'd be very scared. He would call a church. Oh, you know what? You're 100% right. It could be so much worse. Yeah, except I wouldn't well I would and then I would subscribe him on his own credit card to premium because I can't I can't watch another target ad. I'm sorry. I can't either. So anyway, okay. This is the story of Ruby, Frankie and eight passengers. We're going to start kind of smack dab in the recent history of things. So there's this town, it's called Ivans, and it's in the southwest corner of Utah.

It's home to about 10,000 people and is a suburb of the St. George metro area, which borders the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah reservation directly to the west. And the area itself is a very quiet place to live. It's one of these like just peaceful calm communities. They see very little crime, let alone crime of such a magnitude that hundreds of YouTube's and podcasts are covering it. So this is a not this is the last place you'd expect something like this to happen. But on August 30th of 2023,

it was morning and a young boy started ringing doorbells in an Ivan's neighborhood. And very, very unsettling because speaking of like the development of technology, we have all of these clips on Ring Doorbell video. So this was like a fairly affluent community. They had these doorbell cameras, right? And so the footage is all there of this little boy wandering from door to door. And so there was a documentary just released on, I believe it was a 2020 documentary,

and they played all this footage of this little boy wandering around. And so he approaches the first house, and you can watch this on the doorbell camera, he rings the bell and he waits, but nobody comes, so he moves on. He pairs on the doorbell of the next house, and he rings that doorbell. And in the videos, it's a little blurry, right? But you can definitely tell something is off. He was wearing shorts, and underneath the shorts, you could see his legs, which seemed far too thin.

They were very knobby. You could see his knees and his other joints very clearly. It looked like he was way too thin. They were very knobby. You could see his knees and his other joints very clearly. It looked like he was way too thin. Yeah, yeah. And what's more, he wasn't wearing any shoes. So he didn't get an answer at the second door either. So he walks to get a third house and finally rings the doorbell. Again, we have the doorbell footage and somebody answers. And this was just before 11 a.m. And you can watch the whole conversation unfold in real time, which to me, almost I felt like

I was like eavesdropping. It's a very odd feeling to watch something unfold, knowing what's about to happen when they don't know when the guy opening the door doesn't know what to happen or what's about to happen. It's almost like how I feel about, uh, when you watch body cam footage where they show up at like what seems to be kind of an innocuous call, but you know, watching it like, Oh, they're about to uncover like a massive crime, you know,

and just watching them wander through someone's house and they're just like, Oh, it looks like nobody's here. And you're like, oh my God, they're in like XYZ, whoever's famous person who disappeared home. In a kind of a similar way, I feel a smaller version of that when I'm listening to like dispatch phone calls. And it's just in the beginning before the second guy has spoken.

It's just hearing the dispatch say hello and like knowing that the next thing you're gonna hear is actually so fucked up and so sad. There's something like you feel almost invasive or it's like that feeling of... Well, helplessness. So, you want to be able to change what's gonna happen. Yes, you wish you could jump in.

The dramatic irony where you, as the viewer know what's going to happen, but the characters don't. It's like that unsettling like, ah, don't go in there, you know. So anyway, it's very bizarre to watch, to watch the footage, but you see the man opened the door and he asked the boy what he needs. He's like, what do you, what do you need? And the boy says, could the man do him two favors? And he said, okay. And the kid said, first, can you take me to the nearest police station? And then he said, well, actually just one favor is fine. So basically it was like, I need two favors. First, can you take me to the police? Actually, let's just focus on that. Basically is what he's saying. How old is the man is?

He is I believe hold on. Let me make sure I have it right That's like such a sad like it sounds so adult that like you almost want it to be funny that a little kid is saying Something that sounds so adult like but then you're like, oh my god Like he's literally asking to go to the police station then he's like actually, actually, like no eight year old should be prioritizing what favor to pick. And one of them is go to the cops. 100%, 100%. It's very, very, it's almost like jarring. Like it shouldn't have to be this way.

And I'll confirm the age later, but either way, he's a young kid. At that point, I would have been like, you have to tell me now what the second favorite is, because if that's the first one, what the fuck else is it? Yes. Step one is already too far. Please start over.

As someone who's currently in charge of you in this moment, please tell me what the other thing is that's on your mind. Okay. I was incorrect. He's about, at least now he's 12, So this would have been, he was probably like 11. 10, 11. No, 10, 11, something like that. Yeah. Okay.

So still again, too young for this. So he says, actually just one favor's fine. And the man says, what's going on? This is when the man's like, okay, something's clearly wrong. He's like kind of taking stock in this. And he goes, what's going on son? Have a seat here and had the boy sit down in a chair on the front porch. And it was very clear. Something was wrong.

The boy, when this man looked closer was covered in visible wounds. He was emaciated. He had duct tape on his wrists and ankles and the duct tape was wrapped around layers of saran wrap. He told the man that he wasn't even from this area and then he said he was hungry and thirsty and it's just oh it gives me chills it's so heartbreaking. So the man calls 911 and he starts crying on the phone to dispatch and this is is definitely like, you can see, like, what's the matter, son? You know, he's like very a gruff guy. But he kind of breaks as he's talking to dispatch.

And he says, this kid has obviously been, and then kind of tears up, and he says, he's been detained. He's covered in wounds. And so first responders arrive on scene pretty quickly. They confirm that this child is malnourished and injured. And they later described him as stoic. He was almost strangely calm this whole time as they transferred him to the ambulance and then to the hospital. He told them that his mom's name was Ruby Frankie. And he said that he had left behind a younger sibling at home. Oh.

So, this was very jarring because based on his condition, first responders were very nervous that maybe they would find this other younger sibling deceased in the home. Not alive? Yeah. Yes, exactly. Because younger child, this child is already so abused and neglected. And so they said they knew they needed to act quickly. So they identified the house he had come from, and police were allowed to conduct a search

without a warrant because there was a threat of immediate danger to a child. And when they knock on the door, and again, this is like where body cam footage comes in and like moments later in this documentary, because you see them knock on the door and this woman opens, it's not Ruby Frankie, it's a woman named Jodie Hildebrandt. And she opens the door and goes, what are you doing? And they just waltz right

on in and she says, do you have a warrant? And they're like, we don't need one. Yeah, good for them. They're like, get the fuck out of my way. For real. Like, who are you even? And so I'm thinking, they're thinking, oh, maybe this is Ruby Franke. Nope, not even the mom. So what they discovered inside would be just so horrific and shocking and basically would spread to the whole world just because of the backstory that we've kind of already alluded to with this very famous family vlog. So I'm going to give you a little, what do we call it, throwback to the story of family blogging. And I guess the word, it does ring more of a bell

when you call it mommy blogging because that is definitely still a thing. And so mommy blogging was kind of the early iteration of like a family channel. And so mommy blogging at the end of the 90s, early 2000s, it started to gain popularity. It's a really simple concept. Parents share stories online about their kids, their daily lives, like post photos of first day of school. And this is what we made for dinner, you know.

And a lot of them basically started, like I said, their pages just to send to family members, like a personal newsletter almost. That's why people were pretty surprised when their own blogs started gaining followers and popularity. Some of them even became early internet famous. Before long, these blogs were actually lucrative as well. They were selling ad space on their websites They were doing features for like baby brands, you know diapers what-have-you cleaning products Food, you know anything that kind of fit. So meanwhile the sinister part of this is lurking beneath all the like, fun innocent

stuff and that is the fact that these children, their entire lives, day to day, moment to moment are being shared publicly for anyone and everyone. And I mean, anyone and everyone to see. In the worst possible iteration. So some parents chose to use fake names for their children, but the kids of more famous bloggers would still be recognized just by their photos. I mean, like you and I get recognized and most people just listen to the show, you know?

So it's photos, it's Instagram photos, that kind of thing. So you can imagine if- Even if you're not showing the kid, which was not even probably a concept at the time, nowadays it is. Right, no. If you're posting pictures of yourself, if people recognize you and then see your kid next to you,

your kid's gonna get recognized, you know? Already, yeah, exactly. And like, even if you go to school, they still know your last name, right? And like, they can find out pretty quickly who your parents are. And so when it was blogging, it was already apparently, which I didn't realize getting kind of out of control.

But of course then when YouTube rolled around and other video sites, but primarily YouTube obviously, which was around the mid 2000s, mommy blogging kind of evolved into devolved into mommy vlogging. And now, like you're there's no hide it you're showing more of your children than ever before you're you're showing. I mean we'll get into it but every moment, every vacation, every wake up, every drive

to school, like everything is being filmed and people are eating this content up. A smaller thing too is like if it was just blogging, it was usually just probably pictures and now it's audio. So now people are also hearing your kid's voice. Audio, 100%. Which I know is such a small thing compared to everything else you listed,

but it's just another way for your kid to get recognized even if you're trying to protect their likeness. I mean, but even if like on a blog, you know, even if somebody was blurring their kids' faces, like with video, no, like people were not blurring anything, right? Like it was just, everyone's on camera. Well, there wasn't even like, there wasn't even software for like, that was accessible to common people to blur a face.

To the everyday. No, no, that's so true. I feel like that was not even a consideration, like you said. So like literally from birth and like, we see this now. And I'm not saying anything against people. Like I watched 8 million like in labor birth videos and they helped me a lot to like cope

with the fear of giving birth. So I'm not shaming that, but I'm basically just giving people an idea of like, when it comes to a family vlog, some of these families would vlog the second their child enters this earth. And then like every moment. I mean, and the Frankies were bad about this. I literally watched the Duggars. There was 30 births. Like, so like. Oh yeah, so I mean, it's exactly, it's the same idea. And it's almost like with, they're on TLC, right? So it was like TLC, at least there were some frameworks

for we can only show this many minutes per episode or what have you. But like with vlogging especially, it was just like hours of day to day mundane shit, you know? And people would just have them on. Every inch of your house, every inch of your- Every inch. Like, I mean, there was even,

I know there's probably videos like, how do we protect our kids at home? Let me show you our security system. Like, what? Oh my God, we type in six, two, five, nine. Like, holy shit. six, two, five, nine. Like holy shit. Somebody out there was like, how does Christine know my fucking keypad number?

I just said four random numbers. No, but I mean, it's, and also I will try to refrain, but like I will say, especially with the Duggars, which I don't know if that's, I don't think this is the case for the Frankies. Maybe it could have been. But I know with TLC, with a lot of things coming out about 19 Kids and Counting, is that it was just, to have a baby was almost, it wasn't just for God anymore in their religion. It was to keep numbers going because their top episodes were when they had babies.

And so it was almost like a factory, a baby factory, just to keep the numbers up so they can get paid. Like, new season, like, let's keep it going. Yeah. And we need another J name that doesn't start with J. So the one that always springs to mind about the Frankies that was always talked about, discussed when critiquing the channel is the video where Ruby Films her preteen daughter go have like talking about her. I think it was buying her first bra They filmed the whole thing buying her first bra

They talk about getting her period, shaving her legs. They film her shaving her legs for the first time. And like, they know what they're doing at this point. I mean, you can see the demographics are so upsetting of the number, ooh, it gives my whole body chills. The number of old men watching videos of a 12 year old shaving their legs. And the reason I say they know what they're doing

is this is a clip in like maybe a longer video, but the thumbnail is like so-and-so shaving her legs for the first time, ah, you know, and it has like a bare leg and it's like, they know what they're doing. And even if they didn't know they even numbers even if they didn't They they've been told by now and they could have taken a they've sure been told so And it got more clickbaity and it would be like

like I mean some of these channels post videos like We went to the hospital and like one of them is pregnant You know and you're basically like baited into thinking like, did they lose a baby? And it's like, no, we just had to like say hi to our friend, ha ha, got you. And it's like, that's so damaging and maybe tough. Maybe this is the Frankies, but there was, I remember there being a video at one point that went viral where like, I guess the wrong video was like it wasn't edited properly and it was like making a woman

making her daughter like cry or making her sad. Ruby Frankie. Is it? And then making her like pose so that way they could get the thumbnail of her daughter like in tears. I think it was her son and their dog had just passed. Yes. Or maybe daughter.

But every time I watch it, of course, it's blurred because the people who are covering this are more considerate about the kids than their own parents. And so I've only seen the face blurred, but she's basically like, you can just see her grab the kid and be like, no, look sad. And then the kid goes, I am sad.

And she goes, cry. It's like, you don't look sad enough. Cry. Yeah, your dog's dead, yeah. Like cry, cry, ooh. And she goes, cry. It's like, you don't look sad enough. Cry. Your dog's dead, yeah. Like cry, cry, ooh. And then like, just like forcing this child. And he goes, I am crying. And she's like, look at the camera, look at the camera.

Like just shocking. I mean, horrifying. And like, it's just, it just gives you a small snippet into like, this child just lost their dog and now they have to sit there and like pretend to cry about something they were already feeling devastated by. Like I imagine there's so much untangling of like reality for kids who go through this and have to like grow up and be like what is real? What isn't real? Like it must just be such a mind fuck, you know? It's really horrifying. So yeah, that was also Ruby Frankie, of course. And so these families are sharing multiple videos a day

for millions upon millions of subscribers. The monetized videos and ad content even meant that like, even if down the line, they wanted to take the video down or one of the kids eventually wanted to, they couldn't because they were monetized and the brand that sponsored the video would have to agree to it being taken down before the family could even have that option. So these kids have zero, uh, control of their privacy, of their rights. Um,

a lot of times in these situations of any money that they're basically doing labor to earn. And so in 2015, Ruby Frankie began her own vlog channel on YouTube, which she called Eight Passengers. And the Eight Passengers being her, Ruby, her husband, Kevin, and their six children. Now they lived in Springville, Utah, which was about four hours north of Ivans, which is where we started our story today. And this channel quickly gained popularity

because Ruby and Kevin had this kind of enticing brand for a lot of people who related to them. Kevin worked as he was a working dad and Ruby stayed at home to raise the kids. They were Mormon, they promoted fundamentalist Christian values, and they had a pretty strict parenting style is how they like to call it and I say that in quotations and that's how their fans found them and that's how critics found them so they immediately were already getting some heat but they had such a big following because people just, I guess just like these other channels, 19 Kids Accounting, all these, you know,

people just like that kind of, not you in like kind of an ironic, not ironic way, but you know what I mean, but people who like support that and want to be like them, you know? They got a lot of traction that way. And so they blew up pretty damn quickly. In videos that Ruby recorded, edited, and published herself, Ruby's children discussed discipline.

And there are many, many instances of this, but viewers pretty quickly felt like it was beyond strict parenting. Over the years, some of the things that happened, we've already discussed some of them, but Chad, their second oldest, once mentioned that he, this is also another clip you may have seen him because it kind of does the rounds a lot. He was not, he lost his right to a bed for seven months

for his bad behavior, which by the way, his bad, well, okay. His bad behavior was that he tricked, which also I thought was pretty cruel, but they're siblings. He tricked his younger brother by waking him up and saying, we're going to Disney World, pack your bag. And the kid got all excited and jumped up and started packing a bag.

And then he's like, we're not going to Disney. I was pranking you, which is like terrible and mean. But also he's still, they're both still children. And so as a quote unquote punishment, the mom took away his right to a bed for seven months and he had to sleep on a bean bag on the floor. And they kind of mentioned it in a video and Ruby just laughs at the camera and says, I don't think our viewers know about that one. So people started to kind of raising an eyebrow like, oh, okay, so things get worse. I see. For example, once Ruby and Kevin canceled Christmas for the two youngest, aged 10 and eight, because they had, quote,

long patterns of selfishness and their unwillingness to repent and feel sorrow for pretty egregious choices they have made. And eight and a 10 year old. Yeah. What egregious, like you didn't share your juice box. Like what do you fucking mean? Here's the thing. They never even clarified. They just said, these two children, 10 and eight years old, their actions had affected their peers, teachers, and the entire family, so their Christmas was completely canceled.

Insane. And what's worse, Ruby and Kevin made them watch their four older siblings open all their Christmas gifts. I was gonna say, it sounds like only theirs was canceled. Only theirs, the youngest, by the way. Like it hurts my heart in such a specific way of like, even though in the grand scheme of things, that's one of the smaller issues that this family's facing.

Like that's so traumatic in and of itself on top of everything else for a small child. And even for the older sibling who has to go along with it, it's just, I, it almost makes you realize early on and I, I don't, again, not a therapist here, but I imagine things like that being their regular day to day type of punishments. No wonder in moments where it's like cry, cry, be sad. It's like a girl I'm so dead inside because you have like totally shot my emotions that like whatever feeling you're expecting me to pull out of my ass

right now, I can't do it. Cause I already cried it all out by age five. You have controlled my emotions and the way that I present myself since I was shot out of the womb. Like I've never like you've directed me my whole life. Yeah. It's just shocking. It's very, it's just shocking. It's very, very sad. So, you know, over the years, people have been like ringing alarm bells and saying like, guys, this is

so fucked up. But you know, again, there's not really much you can do. She, for example, once said she kept the two youngest kids home from school to clean the house as a punishment for their alleged egregious choices. And then she hoped that keeping them home from school would bring pain, which first of all, what have you ever been a kid? She then was disappointed that they didn't mind missing school. And so she said that they had become numb to her punishments

and that is why she canceled Christmas to quote, wake them up. Damn. So I just said that a little too early of like they were already shot, but also like not really like so that brings that brings in, sorry, I'm thinking in my douger brain currently, but one of the things that they teach in fundamentalist Christianity, you know, since I've been there, but from my observations is that the first thing is to keep sweet and always be happy and always With the smile say yes, ma'am. I'm happy to do it. And so the second that They and probably I'm guessing based on what I know about what happens later. I

Would imagine that they are so filled with fear that if they're shit They're already being punished about cleaning they know better than to like pout about it. Like for self preservation, they're probably just gonna like act like they're more than happy to do it. And then that's what got them in trouble is that they weren't sad even though they've been forced to be happy. It's like no matter what they can't win

because then she would have just been mad that they were like crying and bothering her all day, even though she pulled them out of school. Yeah, that they weren't like accepting her punishment stoically enough, you know? It's like, I'm sure she wouldn't have been happy either way. No, she just wanted a problem. There's like no good reason.

And so the next thing, this is the one that I always think of when Ruby Franke comes up, because it also went viral several times, Ruby posted a vlog about her youngest who was six years old for getting her lunch at home. And she's in the car, Ruby is, and she's like, the school just called and said

that my youngest, the daughter, I'm not gonna say their names for sake of child privacy, but the six-year-old forgot her lunch. And according to Ruby, it was the six-year-old's responsibility to pack and remember to bring her own lunch to school. So when the teacher texted about the issue and said, hey, can you drop a lunch off? Ruby said, absolutely not. And then to the camera, she said, hopefully nobody gives her food and nobody steps in and gives her a lunch. Hopefully. And she just, this is openly what she's telling her audience.

So whatever she's not showing openly, like makes you wonder, you know? Like this she thinks is perfectly acceptable. She said that going hungry all day would be a great and important lesson about responsibility for her six-year-old daughter. If I was raised this way, I mean, I wouldn't have survived because I leave my backpack at home every single day

and I'm not even going to school anymore. I always leave something behind. And it's like a six-year-old can't one day forget her lunch without going hungry and like your mom is Not even gonna allow the teachers to give you some crackers. It's just It's shocking. I mean it somehow makes you talking every time you wonder Immediately like what the hell happened in her childhood that she like thinks that she is a better parent than her parents were or something You know, well there trust me. there's many videos about that too.

So you could go down quite a rabbit hole. You should watch it. I'll send you the links. I'm sure you've already got a master doc with all of it. So. I do, it's in my mind. So over time, more and more of these kind of instances happened and people would take

note of them. Like Chad was once sent away to a wilderness camp. It was a program for troubled teens. We've covered some of these. It was notorious for unchecked and shocking abuse. Whole episodes could be done on these kinds of programs. And so viewers began like trying to actually take action. There were petitions on change.org to have the Franke family investigated for child abuse. Thousands

of people signed this thing. I signed one of them. And Sherry, the oldest, she finally moved out and began college at Brigham Young University. And that's when she thought I finally have a way I can help my younger siblings. So she began, as an adult now, began calling and saying, please, somebody check on my family. I want a welfare check. My younger siblings are suffering from abuse. I know because I was there. And at one point, her neighbors actually reached out to her and said, hey, like, are you at school?

And she said, yeah, I'm at BYU right now. And her neighbor said well I just we just want you to know that your parents have been gone for almost five days and the four youngest children have just Been left in the house by themselves. Oh my god for that whole time and so Responsibility to make their own fucking food. So right they've been doing it since they were eight months old So, you know what figure it out kids since they were eight months old. So you know what? Figure it out kids. And so it was not the first time Sherry had to call for a welfare check, but it just never led to results. Authorities later claimed that their warrants were denied, which is why they weren't able to get into

the house. But either way, Sherry was stuck like knowing that her younger siblings, the kids were all at home enduring this suffering and she had no way to stop it. And so she was stuck in the middle. So meanwhile, controversy after controversy are coming out about eight passengers and they had millions upon millions of followers. And now I don't know how many millions upon millions, but they had at least multiple millions of followers. But Ruby began as the stuff keeps coming out and they're getting like pummeled with these accusations,

Ruby starts updating less and less on the channel. And in June of 2022, she announced she was leaving YouTube behind because she was working on a new project with a woman named Jodi Hildebrandt. Oh God. I want to warn everyone now, this is going to be a two parter because. Oh, okay. So much. Sorry to warn you now. I would, I also just want to say, which I'm sure,

I I'm sure you'll mention it, maybe, whatever, but this is where if you have grown up with any abuse, you know that if the person you unfortunately have to live with through that, if anything pisses them off or upsets their ego or criticizes them in a way that they don't like it, you're the brunt of them not knowing how to process their feelings. And something really terrifies me about how there's no winning points to people defending the family because it's just going to set her off and make it worse at home without... Yes.

Just incidentally, just either we don't say anything and the kids are abused or we do say something and the kids are probably abused twice as often currently because she's in a particularly awful mood. And for Sherry also to feel so close to it and like knowing her hands are tied, like she can't, there's nothing she can do. Like it must just be the most helpless feeling.

And it's such a weird, I imagine very, There's nothing she can do. Like it must just be the most helpless feeling. I imagine very bittersweet still a fucked up word, but yeah, helpless, but also knowing at least you got out and you can maybe do something about it, but still not knowing what to do. And also you shouldn't have to hold that burden. No, no, especially not like freshman year of college. I mean, as the oldest, geez. So Jodie Hildebrandt, she was a licensed therapist

who worked with the family and she had provided marriage counseling for Ruby and Kevin. And it's believed provided counseling services to Chad before he was sent away to his wilderness camp. But now it seemed as if Kevin and Chad had both moved out of the home, but again they had stopped updating everyone so it wasn't really clear what was going on. But it seemed as though Kevin and Chad had both moved out separately and Jodie had moved in with Ruby and her four remaining children.

Oh God. And that's where I'm gonna leave it for today because I'm sorry. I know, I know, but we're at two and a half hours and I feel like this is a good stopping point because it's about to get wild again. I mean, it's my own fault. I kept interrupting you, but it was-

No, you didn't. I spent the first 10, yeah. There was no winning. We finally have a mind meld. We finally had a wine meld. I finally had a wine meld with you, and we needed to have that little rant about YouTube. I don't regret it.

Okay, great. Well, all right. I guess I'll see you. I Okay, great. Well, uh, All right, I guess I'll see ya I mean luckily we're recording much sooner than three weeks So there's not a whole to do. Thank God. We're recording in two days. I'm like what's I like now? I'm scared. What's gonna happen the next two days? Am I gonna have a whole mother list for you? Probably I would like an update about your tooth. It really does freak me out that we're just talking through that How about I'll update you about my tooth and then the little statue I found in the garden because I do have an update about that. I've researched it. Okay, great. Yes, please. Okay. And I will hopefully have all of my teeth when I see you

and no statues. So. Okay, excellent. Keep the trouble over there. Thank you so much. I guess just bear the weight of all that myself. I will. Thank you so much. I guess everybody, in case you forgot, we got a book, please pre-order it. We wrote another book, it's called, and that's why we drink A Haunted Road Atlas, Next Stop. And pre-orders are very big.

You can find the link to it in our social media bios and our show notes. And by very big, we mean very, very important. Not like they're very big, like we've gotten a lot. We don't know, but they're very important. I imagine it's just normal book size, but it is important to purchase the normal size book. Please.

Please pre-order, and if you are coming to our LA show in a couple weeks, thank you so much. That will be a very bittersweet show. Oh, it will be. And again, make sure you stay hydrated, drink some water, you thirsty little rats, and... That's why we drink.