And That's Why We Drink - E386 A Telegram to our Exes and a Hell of a Case of Swamp Gas

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

Hello, our fruity little mangoes! It's episode 386, and what's the deal with Erewhon? This week Em takes us on a wild ride of an alien abduction in the story of the Allagash Four. Then Christine covers a heart-rending case in the disappearance of Blanche Monnier. And if we've taught you one thing this week, please protect those armpits! ...and that's why we drink!We're going back on tour with a brand new show! Tickets are selling fast so make sure to get yours at andthatswhywedrink.com/live

Hello, my fruity little mango. Whoa! As I eat fruity little mangoes. Oh, I was like, wow, that brain of yours is miraculous. No, every time I eat fruit and a fruit is nearby, I do have to say something about it though. So, and you're one of them. Hee hee hee, here I am.

I went to Erwan recently. Oh God, is this a standup bit? I don't think I have time or energy for this. Wow, sounds like you don't want to hear my story. What's the deal with Erwan? Sounds like you don't want to hear my story. I don't, but go ahead. Oh, oh.

Okay, I'll tell you later when you're in a better mood. It's a good one. You're really missing out. I'd rather everyone suffer with me, so I guess tell it now. I just wanted to say that I've been to Erwan recently. That was your story? Yeah. Wow, yeah, you were right.

That was a killer. I never said there was going gonna be a lead up. You're the one who made it sound like I was about to do some routine. You said it. You're the one that let everyone down, my friend. I just wanted to say, I got my mango from Erwan, beyond. Okay, you're right.

I should have lowered the bar for your storytelling. Anyway, yes, I went to Erwan. I saw it on your basic bitch stories on Instagram, which I love. I love Basic Bitch Day. I know, and like Erewan, if you're not familiar, is an LA grocer. High-end luxury items.

They're very fucking expensive. I think I bought cashews there, because I like needed cashews for something, and they were like $60. I was like, hell no. Yeah, the smoothies there are, they start at like 25 each. Oh my God.

I know. But we were having a basic bitch day. Yeah, you gotta, there's no choice. You gotta have a treat yourself day every now and then. See, that could have been the story, a $25 smoothie, that's crazy. I was not going to say something like that after you started with criticizing my story.

I was not going to be like, and then I spent $50 on smoothies because that would have just been worse. It sounded like a standup bit when you said, I went to Airwond recently as the opening line of our podcast. Well, we hadn't had a basic bitch day in a while, so I decided that I was gonna-

I was very into that. I feel like if I do that here, all there is is like Chipotle, the mall. Actually, those are both pretty fun. I could do that. I feel like if I do that here all there is is like Chipotle, the mall. Actually those are both pretty fun. I could do that. It won't be quite Air One level but... Chipotle and the mall are two regular of things that I do but on Basic Bitch Day it's a yes day for myself because usually I don't step foot in an air one and But they're on basic bitch day who am I to say no to me no rules. Yeah, how what have you done recently? Making a stand-up routine nothing ever even remotely as interesting. What did you do?

That's not true yesterday. We facetimed and I saw that you Just about this. What about this? What about this? What? I saw a baseball flying through the air. Mm-hmm. Wait, hold on. Let me start over. Hold on, let me think about how it goes. Wait, are you telling someone else's joke? Is that what's happening?

Man. I don't feel so bad about my story anymore. At least mine was original. Okay. I saw what I... Wait, hold on. Oh my God. There once was a man from Peru. It's right there.

Okay. Yes. I couldn't tell what kind of ball was flying through there and then it hit me. You did not. How do you know which one's crickets? How do you even remember? It's the one I press the most on this show. That's so cruel.

Cruel and unusual. Anyway, welcome to our comedy podcast. It's very funny. I will say the real comedy was yesterday when we were FaceTiming, and I kept trying to talk to Leona. And she was just so busy absolutely facing her bottle. And it looked just like mommy. It was just chug chug It was um she does not drink

out of a bottle does she? What was she drinking out of yesterday? I'm just trying to remember. Oh just her water cup yeah okay. Oh I couldn't tell it was it was directly in the air it was upside down going down. She's facing that water um yeah she's staying hydrated and she is I'm proud of her for that. She also needs to stay hydrated because is, I'm proud of her for that. She also needs to stay hydrated because the only other thing she was eating was like a massive chocolate bunny. So she was having a great day yesterday.

What happened was Em got on the phone and I was distracted and Leona knows the moment I'm distracted, she can kind of, you know, figure out some- Get away with it. Yeah, so she walks back in, I'm like cooking her dinner actively. She walks in with this fucking chocolate bunny. I'm like, where did you A, get that?

B, it's July. C, like how did you even reach it? And D, absolutely not. And then a giant bite came off the bunny. So. And then counted every single chocolate egg that came out of your cabinet on top of the chocolate bunny. And there was like a baker's dozen of chocolate eggs sure was sure was I did have to swiftly promptly

Yeah, is there a tactic with a little kid to like get those? I mean when there's 13 I guess you could almost hide nine of four of them and leave nine right away because they can't tell a difference Like how do you slowly? Like gradually remove all of them so she doesn't get sad? Oh, I mean, they're like a goldfish. Like they turn around and you just sweep them away.

Typically she's not gonna be like, I mean, when it's chocolate, she might remember, but typically it's like the next thing showed up. Like Pete the Cat is suddenly on TV and that matters more. And as I was making noodles and all of a sudden she's like, I want noodles. And I'm like, okay. And so she had no interest anymore in the chocolate bunny. So it's like, you know, you're just playing kind of a losers game all the time. Now that's funny. Yeah, it's not really, but it might be for

you. It's not for me, but you know what, that's okay. I feel like I do the same thing with Alison with salt and vinegar chips We're like if I just slowly remove if I get them away one by one She almost thinks she ate all of them so never notice She'll never notice until five minutes later when she walks back to the pantry and sees it again But he goes wait a minute hang on I'm not too. I know what I was eating She got distracted with Bridgerton or something. I was gonna say, put a show on.

There you go, Bridgerton. It's easy enough. It's honestly, we're all just giant toddlers stumbling around. Isn't it funny? A lot of times, if I'm confused about something, I just go, I really, like there's the sound that people use on TikTok, but it's true. Like, I'm just a baby.

Like, I don't really know. I don't understand why you expect more of me than what you would expect of a two-year-old. I'm new here. Like, I just got here. I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know I don't understand why you expect more of me than what you would expect Of a two-year-old. I'm new here. Like I just got here. I don't know. Yeah, I don't even know where I am So if somebody could help me, yeah, but how would I trust anyone else cuz they're also new here. So I'm quite Well, yeah, yeah, we're all fucked. Is there a reason why you drink and whether or not there is an answer to that? What do you drink? Hmm. I forgot my water and whether or not there's an answer to that what do you drink? um hmm i forgot my water and all my other okay sorry that was horrible jack can you put like a like a bleep that sound out i just made a slurp noise and it feels like that will be really

unpleasant for a lot of people so if we could just bleep that out like a curse word that would be i thought it was quite nice. Fantastic. Maybe that'll be like Patreon only content, you know? Mouth-faces. Yeah, now we're getting into OnlyFans territory. If you wanna hear Christine slurping, please pay behind the wall. It's just Em, it's just Em, the only person.

It's just that and your toes, man, I don't know. What can, ee, oh, like holding toes together. People have been sending us, I don't know Oh like like holding toes together people have been sending us I don't know like see why no sending me videos of their them holding toes now I think to just get in on the joke, but I appreciate that someone will do it. You know my god. Well. I don't so anyway Besides the toe thing I don't know I feel like we've given 75 reasons already, so don't feel pressured, but. Well, I feel a little stressed because we're trying to design this stupid house that we paid for. And man, I hate that.

I always thought I was prepared after the years of Sims, but I actually don't know what I'm doing. Isn't this so frustrating when you're like, well shit, this isn't as drag and drop as I'd hoped. It really makes me feel truly like I'm just a baby, I just got here, I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm like, why did someone let me buy a house? Who let you do that, yeah.

But yeah, and also between the two of us, Allison is not, this is not like a jab at her. Just it is open public knowledge that she is not the conceptualizer of the two of us. And when it comes to designing, she gets frustrated very easily. Even if it were just like redoing a closet, she can't like see things unless it it's physically in front of her.

And so with love, she is not much help because she keeps getting frustrated. But then I'm getting frustrated because I don't know what, there's just so many things that I feel like- That must be tough for her coming from a family of architects to not conceptualize. And she's the baby of the family.

I think all the skill was just kind of slurped out, if you know what I mean. Ew, oh, Jack. And by the time she was born, there was no architect skill left. It had already gone to everybody else. That is pretty sensible to me. That sounds like how it works.

That is what I think the science does. So, but I mean, luckily she's got so many people in her corner that can do it for her and like also by proxy do it for me. So that's been very nice. Maybe she's pretending. She's like, help me, I don't know how. Maybe because there's so many architects

since she was the baby, she didn't even need to like develop the skill. They were just like, I got it. Yeah. Exactly. So what I've been doing is a lot of arts and crafts to I've been building dioramas So that way she can see the options Which has been helpful but also very time-consuming because I'm making dioramas while also trying to design a house do that digitally but okay

Probably but guess what? I'm new to this. I'm just a little guy. I don't really know so so you can make a diorama Wow, that's one thing. I know how to do I don't know my props skills have been coming out. I guess but Anyway, so just designing a house is very time-consuming and by the time this comes out I'm sure I will have found a digital version of this so I Just would award everyone before I get the same link a bunch of times. I was going to say you're going to get a million texts.

I mean you can literally just google like home design software and it'll be like a trillion cent bill. I know but a lot of them had like a like the free trial thing and I always forget to cancel the free trial so I don't want to get looped into something so I anyway I was just being hard-headed I guess about accessing that but that's why I drink, because designing things is not the Sims, go figure. Sucks. And I'm drinking an LD, and I've been waiting

to crack her for you, if you wanna do the countdown. Three, two, one. Oh, that was a good one. That was a good one. And now we can officially start our podcast. Finally. I have a, I hope you're in high spirits because I've got you in a UFO story today. Take me higher. Is that what you would you sing like Creed as you were being beamed up?

Can you take me higher? I think I would sing Creed under any and most circumstances upon which I was woken up in the middle of the night. It doesn't really matter what. You and every other Millennials father would sing Creed at any given opportunity I think. That's right, it's just the first thing that comes to mind. Is that Creed? I don't know. In my head it gives Creed energy if it's not Creed. I mean I think it's, can you take... If it's not, it's the only song that wasn't on the Creed discography that my father listened to. Yeah, that is by Creed, for sure, for sure, for sure. Don't ever doubt yourself again, Em.

Girl, every day's a new adventure. I can't make promises, but thank you for the motivation. You're so welcome. This is the story of the Allagash Four. What's that? It's a team name, like the Avengers. Oh yeah. Except everyone gets abducted.

So there are four people here. Ironically two of them have the same name and two of them are twins. So that might be tricky. I'm assuming two of them that are named the same are not the twins. Right that's where it gets extra tricky. They've all got a little too much in common but in different ways. That would be really ideal for me if it was the twins John and John. So you just don't worry about that. Well, it's Jim and Jack.

I was close enough. Jim and Jack are the twins? Are you serious? Are the twins. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And then the other two people are both Charles. Oh, wait. Oh, oh, neither twin has the same name. I thought one of the twins was going to be overlapping. No, there's two twins who have similar twin names. Jim and Jack.

And then there's also two people, both named Charles. Okay, I guess I can handle that. Charles, Charles, Jim and Jack. We're gonna go with Charlie and Chuck. Okay then, rewind. Charles, Chuck, Jim and Jack. Just so we can keep our Charleses straight. I guess we've got to.

And to make it just a little funny, because apparently I'm like a middle school boy on a playground, Jack and Jim's last name is Weiner. So that's... Yeah! So... Anytime I see that, it won't ever fully leave me. If someone's last name is Weiner, part of me goes,

hoo hoo, and then I never think about it again. But in the moment I go I mean about it because remember that guy Who sent a dick pic and then his last name is wiener and I was like wow you really just walked right into that one It was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It sure was so okay, so the wiener twins and The two Charles and the Charles twins. Yeah, okay got it. Yeah so there's Jim, Jack, Charlie, and Chuck. And they were all born in the early 50s, late 40s. And they meet in 1976 in Massachusetts when they all at some point go to college there and they kind of overlap

After college so they're all living in Massachusetts or Jim and Jack are living Massachusetts. One of the Charles's living in Massachusetts Another one moves to Vermont But still I guess visits often to see his friends that he made while he lived in Massachusetts So one of them is in Vermont, but it's a New England story and Basically Chuck he goes to the Allagash Wilderness Waterway. He is very into camping He's very into nature now the Alex

Yes for clarity is Chuck the one who lives in Massachusetts or Vermont? Great question, Chuck is the Vermont man. Oh, okay, so he's visiting and he goes to this Allagash. Yeah, he goes, so the Allagash Waterway is in Maine. So he, every- Oh! Sorry, I did not make that clear. What's happening? It's a whole road trip. Buy our book. So in- Yeah. They're like, not if not make that clear. What's happening? It's a whole road trip. Buy our book.

So in- They're like, not if it's like this. It might be. I can't honestly. So they're all from Massachusetts. Homeboy moves to Vermont and he does a trip to Maine. Okay, okay, got it. And the Allagash Wilderness Waterway is 92 miles long.

It goes through Northern Maine. It's actually, it also is one of the ends of the Appalachian Trail. Or it's in the same state park where the Appalachian Trail either begins or ends, depending on what direction you're coming from. But so he goes there, he has a great time. He comes back to Massachusetts,

or I don't know what you do in 1976, but the equivalent of texts his friends in Massachusetts sends a fax, I guess. And he says- He faxes his friends, yep. And he says, this Allagash Wilderness Waterway is the best place I ever did go.

We must return. All of us together. Period, stop. Sorry, I'm trying to do like telegraph. How do you do telegram? Oh. Ka-ching, cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha-cha- I'm where you go stop. I don't know I could do I guess you're misunderstanding me what I'm saying is that I was already doing the sound I don't know why you keep doing new ones You're right I'm saying like I feel like you took it as me yelling stop at you. I wasn't yelling stop at you. I was saying like

like a lagash for stop I wasn't yelling stop at you. I was saying like, like, alagash forest, stop. Excellent place, stop. You know how they would say, and they write stop. You know, you are talking to someone who has never written a telegram, so I just think I don't know what it looks like. I mean, I don't think anyone knows what it looks like, but you've never heard that, stop?

Wait, what? I've heard the word stop. But I don't know what you're talking about. What is like, like, it's like the word stop is written on the telegram so they know that that's the end of the sentence? Yeah, like you say stop and that's like the period or whatever. Interesting. Okay.

I didn't know that. No, no, you're teaching. I really didn't know. Well, now I'm worried I'm just screwing it all up. But I thought that's what you do. I think you're right. Okay, no, you're teaching. I really don't know. Well, now I'm worried I'm just screwing it all up, but I thought that's what you do. I think you're right. Okay, so here's the thing. I actually have sent a telegram, but it was so- What? Okay, so you're the only fucking person in the world who sent a telegram, and you made a dumb comment about, well, sorry I've never sent a telegram.

No, no, no, because- It's like, wait, you're the only one who has. No, because I sent a telegram. It was to my ex. It was actually, ironically, the very last message I ever sent her. Is that a Taylor Swift song? it was to my ex. It was actually ironically the very last message I ever sent her. Is that a Taylor Swift song? Telegram to my ex? No, that sounds like a fucking UK pop band.

Telegram to my ex. It was like a digital company where they were like, send an old school telegram. And so all I did was send an email and then they converted it and everything and sent a proper telegram, allegedly. I never heard about it, because by the time it got to her, we broke up.

It's probably not there yet. It's probably still in the works. It's probably like in the telegram wires. Like slow, well, because I assume there's, it's the only telegram, so it's probably just slowly like meandering across the country. You know what?

And then it'll show up, and she'll be like, what's this? And it'll just say, stop. And you'll be like. By now she's married with a kid. So it's really taking a sweet time to get to her. Whoops. But okay.

Now that you're saying it, it's kind of. Oh my God, I just figured it out. I mean, I didn't figure it out. And NBC News told me. But apparently people would save money by using the word stop instead of periods to end sentences because punctuation cost extra but a four-character word was free. Now this is the fun fact I wanted. Thank you for saying this up. Oh thank God I googled that.

That's such a fun fact. Also, hmm, imagine texting and like the punctuation is extra is like charges extra. Charges, yeah. I mean it used to when we were in middle school and then our parents would get like a huge crazy bill, you know. Yeah, I feel like the stop versus the period is the equivalent of us saying text me after nine. Yeah, TTYL at nine. That was our version of stop. OK, well, yes. Thank you for the fun education. You're so welcome. I didn't do it on purpose, but I'm glad we're here.

Well, anyway, he sends a telegram, probably using the same service I did, I guess. And he says, this alagash situation is just so fun. We have to come back together, all as friends. Is that my phone? I'm so scared. What's happening over there? My alarm's going off.

You know everybody, because that's also my alarm. I feel like everybody in the listening just went, thinking. You know what's weird is that's not even the alarm that I usually do. It's the Back to the future sound or the Avengers That's my alarm. So I don't know how you got that on your phone I've never heard that alarm go off my phone and I don't know why an alarm would go off right now. What does it mean?

It's I hate that is it the the telegram finally go through we were supposed to record an hour later than we are So you probably set one to wake up for the next time. Oh Well, she's off now. Good morning. Um, yoo-hoo. Okay, so they all agree they're gonna go. Actually, fun fact, apparently, he only said that to the twins and then said, actually, you know what, we need a fourth

to help carry the canoe. I was gonna say someone to carry the shit. Yes, Charles, I guess, like, he gets, he can prove himself if he wants. So their plan was to go up to the big mountain there, which apparently is a mile high. I don't know in the world of mountains if that's tall or not.

To me, it sounds like a feet, but they were like, we're gonna go climb this mountain and then we're gonna find the rest of the guy. It actually sounds like 5,000 feet. Nailed it. I mean, 5,280 feet. 280 feet, yeah. That sounds like 5,280 steps uphill,

which I don't really wanna do. Both ways, no thank you. To me, that's a flat note. That's actually a very steep note. It's a free stop, if you will. A free stop. As if we're a telegram. Yeah.

We're gonna climb up this mountain. And if that wasn't enough for everybody, we're going to also go canoeing that day, because apparently the Allagash area is a huge canoe port. Okay. And then we're gonna keep staying outside for like another 10 days. That was, that, see that, if I got that telegram,

I wouldn't even send a telegram back. I'd rip that one up. I would just send the word stop over and over because apparently it's free. And people would just like, they'll send this to them, they'll get it. They'll know what it means. And it would actually just be a bunch of ellipses,

like dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, you know? Oh yeah, you know what's so funny is that feels like, that had to be a technique people actually use, is like, oh here's a free telegram I can send people, and it was how you, I don't know, broke up with people or something. Yeah, I mean you did that, you just said. That feels like, well, actually it was the last nice letter

I ever sent her. Oh, no wonder you never heard about it. Yeah, exactly and then I sent a not so nice letter. Why are you always sending letters, you weirdo? I was, I needed, well that's a long story. I already know it and I just keep prodding you. Really, why? I was there, I know.

I was your friend. If anyone wants to know my last relationship, it ended with a Dear John letter. Or did it, because we never know if it arrived. For all I know, I'm still dating her. It's in the telegram. Well then she's cheating on you with his partner or children. Actually, I owe her another letter.

Hang on, I gotta. Stop. I'm gonna get to writin'. Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha.

Um, okay, so, uh, they say, Charlie, you can come too, because we're gonna go canoeing, we need someone to carry a part of the canoe. Nice. So, all four of them go. Somehow he has, he finds three people in a circle that all wanna do a week and a half long trip canoeing. Wow.

And so they get there, they climb the mountain, somehow that's like the best thing to happen to them during this whole trip. Then they start canoeing and the first night, cause I guess since, I mean, they were really canoeing, they were going from like spot to spot to spot, they were, and mean, they were really canoeing. They were going from spot to spot to spot. They were, and then camping before they kept canoeing the next day.

I can't imagine how that's fun. Sounds like my nightmare. But okay. Imagine on day eight and your arm cramps and you can't, how do you, now you're stranded. Well, no, you got Charles, Chuck, Chuckie Boy. He's the brawn. He got the muscle.

He's there for this exact reason. So I can lounge with my sunglasses, get a little tan. He can canoe me down the river. Oh, my arms are so. Ow, that is, ow. I'm just having really weak tendons. I would intentionally run into the oars, so that way I hadn't injured

and that couldn't paddle anymore. You would get out of the boat into the water and run into the oar. Like if I were sitting the boat into the water and run into the oar. Like if I were sitting in the back part, I would pretend that one of their paddles hit me. You'd just hit yourself with it. And I'd go, oh no. I think you could just pretend to injure yourself,

but I would like to see you get hit by an oar intentionally. If it kept me from having to canoe for two more days, I would absolutely do it. It kept the story believable, yeah. Some physical comedy might be required. So they get to their first spot after canoeing, and they set up a fire, and at one point, they look up at the sky, and they see this giant orb

of fire hovering over the trees. And Jim clearly took a pottery class in college because his quote describing this was, it resembles the quality of light you see in a pottery kiln at cone 10 around 2,350 degrees Fahrenheit. Okay, weirdo. I feel like-

You're someone's stepdad immediately. Yeah, immediately. I feel like you are so fucking right about, they went to college and like it's the 70s Of course, they took a fucking pottery class like that's so well They yeah, they apparently that was his first way to describe it I think the point he was trying to get to was like it looks as like as white-hot as something in a pottery kiln But he didn't have to go into like the degrees and what level it It just feels a little much, but all right, I get it.

I guess you gotta put that liberal arts degree to use, you know? You know how there's like, there's always one person who's like really, really into like their elective class. I think he's just trying to force that he's- He wants it to work. He's trying to prove that he is passionate about this. So anyway, he loves pottery, I guess,

and he said it resembles something at Cone 10. And the ball of fire is now levitating in the sky from the trees. And the fire, which is so weird, he says that he watched the fire slowly extinguish from the outside in, so he watched it kind of, like the fire shrink away. Whoa.

So that's a cone zero last I checked. Wow. And they so they saw this thing they they saw it kind of fizzle out in the sky and they went that's crazy and then they just kept canoeing for the next few days. What did they say in the 70s for for crepe like they'd be like far out far out Uh, that's radical Radical I feel like was 80s, but groovy was very good. That's groovy. Okay Honestly, if someone ever said anything I was wearing was groovy. I would

I think I would get do you have any idea what you're saying? When my, in high school? Yes. We always wore uniforms. I wore pink pants one day and a boy told, the boy I had a crush on told me my pants were groovy and we started dating the next day. It's not even a joke. So you were dating a time traveler?

No, just a, just a not nice guy, but. Oh, he was like being mean? No, no, he, just a not nice guy. Oh, he was like being mean? No, no, he's just not a nice guy in general. But he said my pants were groovy and it worked. I was like, okay, we're dating now. I would have literally giggled and kicked my feet in the air. It was like the most ridiculous thing.

Or maybe, you know what he said? They're out of this world. That's what he said. That's what it was. Not groovy, although I feel like he used that word a lot too. Yeah, he said, your pants are out of this world. And like, it was an out of uniform day. So it's like very rare that I even got

to wear cool colored pants. So that was like really big moment for me. Similar to out of this world, one time I got told that something I was wearing was interstellar. Okay, fine, you just have to one up me, I get it. I know, I'm saying I think that was my out of this world moment, and that's probably why

it tickles me so much because I remember how interstellar made me feel. It really is, if you have a special word as a compliment, like it takes it, it elevates it to the next level. Try it out, folks, say something like, wow, you look resplendent today, you know, oh But it's important you don't say with any hint of irony. Otherwise, they will think you're mocking them Yeah, but you also have to be prepared to have that conversation because you won't know what to say so you'll go oh Groovy are we trying like new words now like say like someone's gonna say something

About the word being used And it's probably gonna be you and then you can say well you should listen to this podcast and then we get more listeners It's a win-win win win win. Oh great great great great great great. Are you in your marketing? I love that okay, so good at it so Yeah, so two more nights pass by after they've seen this fireball in the sky They don't even mention it. Like they just think like, oh, remember that really groovy fucking interstellar thing that happened in the sky? Literally interstellar thing.

Yeah. Out of this world. Wait, they're both. Well, no wonder I thought, I was like, oh, I've, someone said that to me. No, I was thinking groovy and alien. And then the Venn diagram in the middle is interstellar. Yeah. Yeah, we were making fun of them,

but now I can't tell if they would have said that because it was the seventies or because this is aliens. Right? Yeah. Uh, so two nights later they're canoeing and I don't know if they're just bad at planning or what, but apparently they now have no more food and they've only been canoeing for like two days. Just because you carry the most Chuck doesn't mean you get no more food. And they've only been coonering for like two days. What the fuck? Just because you carry the most Chuck doesn't mean you get the most food. God.

Yeah, he was probably like doing the chips and the cookie- One at a time. The chocolate thing. One at a time, no one notices if I'm only eating one at a time. So he, the four of them, maybe they still had food,

but they were like rationing it. And so for that night, they didn't have any more food. They didn't have a starvation situation happen. So I think they were just rationing. There's no Donner party. Okay, good. But they decided, oh, for food tonight, since we don't have any left for dinner,

let's go night fishing. And they were like, let's go on another adventure. Let's go snipe hunting while we're at it. Yeah. Go catch yourself some dinner. It was so dark that they decided They were like, let's go on another adventure. Let's go snipe hunting while we're at it. Yeah. Go catch yourself some dinner. It was so dark that they decided they were going to set up a fire at their campsite so that way when they were out in the water, they could keep orienting themselves about

where shore was. Yeah, I think that was smart. And that way they had something to follow back when they got back and they set this huge, raging, roaring fire that way if they were out for a while, the fire would still be going when they got back and they set this like huge raging roaring fire that way if they were out for a while the fire would still be going when they came back to shore. Okay. Well they all get in one canoe together which had to be like crammed like sardines. Just think about the topsy-turviness. You have to trust each other so much that not one of you is going to think it's funny to rock the

bow and then everyone is. And would be like I'm going to is going to think it's funny to rock the boat and everyone is... I'm going to hit myself with an oar and lean over the edge and probably pull everybody down. Yeah, they wouldn't have... I wouldn't have been invited to begin with. You'd be like, I'm staying at camp and when you get back there may or may not be any hot dogs left in the cooler. Yeah, we might also have no food tomorrow. I don't know what to tell you. So they all get in their canoe. They all head towards this cove. And again, it's like pretty dark out. Like they are have like, that also scares me. You don't even know what your seems like a terrible idea. Like this paddling

towards destined for for a disaster. Well, once inconveniently far enough from shore, that is when they all start sensing that they are being watched. Uh-oh. And Chuck looks behind them and he sees another glowing orb hovering in the sky. And the orb is pulsating, changing colors. Apparently it goes from red to green to white. And it was weirdly, it looked like it was filled with fluid

because it was kind of like shaking. Like it had a- Sloshing? It had, like it just like, it was weirdly, it looked like it was filled with fluid because it was kind of like shaking. Like it had a- Sloshing? It had, like, it just like, it was moving as if there was something, like an energy inside of it. Whoa, okay. He noticed that the orb moved up and down, then left to right, which if you imagine,

it's kind of like it was oscillating. Like hovering sort of, okay. Mm-hmm. Interesting. And apparently his first response was to shout, that's a hell of a case of swamp gas. And I don't know totally what he means. More 70s lingo, I don't know, I guess.

I mean, I think what he means is like, cause everyone says, oh, aliens are just, any UFO sightings are just swamp gas. So he's probably being like sarcastically like, well, if you're right, that's one hell of a swamp gas. Well, he said that, which made everybody else turn around. And they went, oh shit, look at this orb. And they said, why would you say it that way?

Why wouldn't you just say, guys, what the fuck is that? But OK. So Jim is the next to comment on this. And he said that the orb was as big as a house, which I feel like we buried the lead there. Nobody said that before now. No, I don't care how like groovy it is. Just tell me what it looks like.

Yeah, how big is it? How intimidating is this thing? House sized? Apparently it's as big as a house. It made no sound. And it had, I guess also another way to describe this oscillating movement. He said that it had a roiling effect, like a mini sun.

So like if you look at a sun, like it's kind of moving around. Yeah, I take it back. That's a really good description. Roiling. That's a beautiful word. I feel like someone took a, all their degrees are showing, like their liberal arts degrees, pottery, English, poetry. Yeah.

Apparently this thing now starts moving closer to them. And he thought it glowed, oh yeah, I said this thing already, but he said it glowed similar to something in a kiln. And he had said that about the first orb. So when he thought that about the second orb, he realized that they might be connected and this is the same orb from two nights ago.

He's only now realizing that. It's another flying thing. And it does remind me of the same class I took in college. So maybe they're connected. Yeah, they're flying. Cone 10 strikes again. Yeah. That does sound like a movie poster from like the 40s.

So yeah, he was like, wait a minute. I think this thing has been following us the 40s. So, yeah, he was like, wait a minute, I think this thing has been following us the entire time. And interestingly, he did not see it changing color. He only saw it as white the whole time, where some people saw it as changing color. Maybe he's color blind. I mean, like a lot of- Oh, maybe.

There's like a high percentage, I feel like out of four, odds are one of them might be. I don't know. Yeah, maybe Well, I know that colorblindness doesn't necessarily work Like that, but I don't know. I mean could be I was also gonna ask which you probably don't know like I don't know if this was reported on but like because the roiling orb Made no noise. I was curious if that thing happened that people talk about, which scares me so much

of like all the crickets went quiet, the birds stopped. Do you know if that happened? I don't think they, I didn't see anything about that. But I wouldn't be surprised. That's such a creepy thing when people describe like, oh, suddenly the whole forest went like completely silent. I'm like, that's, nothing good is happening. Chill, chilling.

And I wonder if maybe they didn't notice if things were getting quiet because they were paddling through water. True, true, like maybe they were making noise, yeah. But yeah, the second that you're out in nature and you hear stillness, it's like, oh my God. So extra creepy. And so not knowing what this thing was,

I don't know if this was smart or stupid, but I think they were just confused and didn't know what to do, but they saw this big glowing thing, and they were like, let's try to get its attention with the flashlight and see if it moves, which as someone not involved in this,

I'm like, why the fuck would you do that? But also in the situation, I would be so curious. I'd be like, oh, what is it? And somebody would say, and I'd go, I mean, I guess, I don't have a better idea. Like, what else are we gonna do? I don't know.

Besides like duck and cover. Yeah, in the canoe. And so they use their flashlights. Oh yeah, also because they're in the canoe, imagine how isolated that is. I mean, to be in the middle of the water. You can't even get away. Stranded.

Yeah, you can't go much faster unless you like start oaring. That's not right. Rowing faster. Yeah, this can't go much faster unless you like start oaring. That's not right, rowing faster. Yeah, this all sounds bad. I feel like there's no correct move. So I'll give them a pass on this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, me too.

So they took their flashlights and they blinked SOS to it. Well, that's not good. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. I guess that's probably all they know. I mean, that's all I know about Morse code. But why would you say SOS? Because then you're basically giving the international sign of like, take us, help us.

Yeah. Or I wonder if they were doing it, I don't know. Maybe they thought it was like some- Like the ship was SOS? Yeah, like, do you need help? Right. But then like, what are you gonna do? This thing's glowing in the sky and is as big as a house.

How are you gonna be helpful? I mean, knowing myself, that's all I would know of Morse code. I'd be like, I can say SOS and that's it. So maybe like, maybe somebody was like, I don't know any Morse code. Which like the aliens were probably like, look at them doing their fun little trick

with their lights. Dumb, dumb batteries. They think they're like so smart. Four in one canoe. Oh, how tight and cozy. Oh look they brought Chuck to carry all their dry goods. Wow. So the orb responded by coming closer to them. I mean if you're gonna flash a light at it, you want its attention. So it got closer to them. I mean, if you're going to flash a light at it, you want its attention. So it got closer to them. It headed toward the canoe and it descended from the sky until it was only like a few feet from the water.

Like they said, like 40 feet from the water. And Jack even is quoted saying, I remember looking over my shoulder, trying to keep an eye on this object and it was coming up behind us. It was getting very close. It was almost on top of us at this point. And I remember thinking, we're not going to outrun this thing. Jim, Jack and Charlie start panicking

and paddling to the camp, but since seeing the ore, but Chuck is in a trance and is unresponsive. Uh-oh, uh-oh. And he's just staring at it, which is crazy, because in hindsight, it's like you wonder what someone looks like before they get beamed up, or like what if, like, what if psychologically he was already beamed up and you're watching someone

mid-abduction? Ew, you just freaked me out. Ew, yeah, like his, he's like no long, his consciousness gone. Time to bring the husk. It left the husk behind. Yeah. Because like, you do wonder, like he's like no long, his consciousness gone. Time to bring the husk. Yeah. Because like you do wonder like in those moments

where someone's abducted and they've blacked out and you wonder like, where are they? Like, are they physically gone or are they like frozen in time? And he's just staring as if like he's- Oh, that's so freaky. As if he's already checked out. It's like he left before his body left, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Or what if only your mind ever leaves and you just freeze for hours? Like what happens? Ew, look at my arm. You're freaking me out here with this talk. Well, so Chuck is now in a trance. The other three, I can't imagine how pissed I'd be

if I were one of the other three being like, fucking paddle, like what is wrong with you? Chuck, we only brought you for your fucking biceps and now you just crap out on us? Even worse, Chuck is the one who invited them. Charlie is the one who. Oh, got it. I see, I call both Charlie's Chuck in my head.

So I just assume we know which Chuck I'm talking about telepathically. Well, this. Sorry, I meant Bron. Imagine being like, wait, Bron? Sorry, no, no, no, the bra, Chuck, oh, oh, oh, other Chuck, and then we got Charlie who's invited everybody, and he's the one who's hypnotized?

Yeah, the one who invited everybody. The one who invited everybody, and the one who was, who showed up to carry the canoe. He's fucking carrying the team right now. Oh, I see, His traps are working hard. Okay, gotcha. Okay. I would be so mad though if this guy was not helping.

And I'd be like, you fucking brought all of us out here and now you're not even gonna help us get away from this. And now you're just gonna fucking sit there and let us save your ass. Yeah. And I wonder if any of them, because I know you and me, if we were ever put in this situation

and one of us just fucking froze when we saw a bald light in the sky, I'd be like, this bitch is abducted. We gotta and one of us just fucking froze when we saw a bald light in the sky, I'd be like, this bitch is abducted, we gotta get out of here. Like I- Yeah, I'd be like, they're a goner. Sorry.

But I wonder what they're thinking. Like, I don't even know. Yeah, they're probably just pissed, like why is he ignoring us? Yeah. Like snap out of it, you know? So Jim, Jack and Charlie are panic paddling, trying to get back to shore.

And then all of a sudden they see the orb release a beam of light that points at the water. And basically when the guys are about to get to shore, Jim, Jack, and Charlie start trying to, you know, they're scrambling, scrambling, scrambling. But Chuck sits there fixated on the orb. He actually even remembers later in hindsight, he remembers being mad at his friends

for making them try to get away from the orb. Like he remembers being attached to it. Oh my God, ew. The rest of the friends recall just about to get to shore, like almost at the end of the finish line, blacking out. Oh my God, so this fucking mean alien made them do all that physical labor to get that close to shore and then went, just kidding.

That's really fucked up. And then all of a sudden they feel like they lost a moment and then they were finishing their ride back to shore. And then they remember seeing the orb float up higher and higher and higher. And then the beam of light that was pointing down at them originally somehow rotates to point to the sky. And then it flashes away like the light's just,

the light's so bright that it cuts through the clouds. And then according to one of them the sphere began eclipsing on itself turning into a half circle and then a crescent until it vanished and totally winked out what the fuck and then they saw it reappear again just for a minute but much higher up as if it had teleported hundreds of feet in the air and then they watch it fly away super fast. That's crazy. So it basically shields itself from view

to teleport almost. Whoa, this is freaking me out. So wow, so they, wow, okay. Jim says, I remember thinking I could pick up a stone and bounce it off this thing's side. That's how close it was. And then all of a sudden it just streaked away very, very fast and within seconds, it It was just a star another light in the sky

That is creepy, dude, which now makes me think if I'm looking at a star Up in the sky. Is that a UFO who like just parked after abducting somebody? Always thinking that because I am always thinking that when I look at a star. I'm like, what if that's a UFO Oh also like so they are able to essentially just vanish. Do they have to be vulnerable and expose themselves to do the beam of light thing? Or can they not just be 40 feet away from you at any given time and you wouldn't know?

Oh, that's a terrible thought. That's a terrible thought. They're closer than the stars. They're closer than the stars. One's right behind you. And they're cloaking themselves. But then they choose to reveal themselves. Yeah, you's right behind you. And they're like cloaking themselves, but then they choose to reveal themselves. Yeah, you're right, maybe there's some weird like law,

like physical law that they can't, maybe it's only in our orbit, you know, maybe things don't work the same in other, I have no idea. Interesting, well, all the guys, once they do get to shore, all four of them feel like they're in some altered state, like their headsets face is just weird. And when they get to the campsite, even though they feel like they've only been gone for maybe 20 minutes, the several massive logs on the fire have burnt completely down. Their giant fire. It said it was almost as if the entire fire

had been consumed hours ago. Oh no. And Jack said he felt really sick for the rest of the night. And he said he felt like something was trying to lift him off the ground. Like he felt like a vertigo. Oof.

Ooh, that makes you think they had a difference in gravity. Like, or like had a... Or like they're readjusting to this gravity. Like altitude sickness or something. Yeah. All of them were weirdly calm after what happened. And Chuck said, I remember stepping out of the canoe and going up to the campsite. This is after he...

Chuck is the one who's been like in a trance. Yeah. Then when he wakes up, I remember stepping out of the canoe and going up to the campsite. This is after he, Chuck is the one who's been like in a trance. Yeah. Then when he wakes up, I remember stepping out of the canoe and going up to the campsite. And I remember there was no panic. People seemed to be very relaxed. The unusual thing is that we didn't stay up for hours and discuss this thing, which is what you think

four young guys on a camping trip would do. We just seemed very fatigued and wanted to go to bed. The next morning we got up and got our camp together and just paddled to the next campsite. So they didn't even cross our minds to address it. Just fucking went about their business. And that's what we, I mean, I've talked with you about this in other circumstances, but when they talk about paranormal apathy, at least on astonishing legends they talk about all the time, where the idea that something will happen and you'll be like, well anyway, back to bed. And then the next day you're like,

wait, what the fuck? that should that demon should have like Shaken me out of my stupor, but you kind of just go into like oh well shrug it off. Yeah it's I mean they really just I wonder what that like what the aliens are doing to make you feel so apathetic like I Don't know probably know it's them Just like straight-up saying like like if they because they, a lot of them speak telepathically, right? So maybe they just like say something that like sticks with you. You better not talk about that.

I guess, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how much of it is like the aliens doing something and how much of it is like your brain's like need for survival and like you just And your own brain disassociates. That's a good point. And it's that kind of shock that people go into sometimes where they just like, I mean, I've told stories on this podcast of people who get stabbed repeatedly,

wake up and make coffee before even realizing they've had a traumatic head injury. So I guess, yeah, you're right. It could just be a survival mechanism. Or it could be space magic. We don survival mechanism. Or it could be space magic, we don't know. Or it could be space magic. By the time they all got to their next campsite, the next day, all of their memories of the event

were completely fuzzy as if they were erasing themselves. Oh gosh, it's like a dream where it kind of fades. Yeah. Did you know in the first minute of being awake, you've forgotten 90% of your dream? I do, that's why I write them down. It really helps with recall. But how do you do that within a minute of waking up?

I have a journal literally right here that says dreams. Or I grab my phone and I do a voice note sometimes. Gotcha, gotcha. I would try it, it really works. I wrote- I was telling Eva. I wrote one in my notepad recently, but that was the only one I've ever written down, just because I remembered like, let's see how much I can remember.

Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting how, even before you go to sleep, if you set an intention, like I'm gonna have a dream tonight, you will remember it, because you've already like consciously made a point to remember it. So I do that and then writing it down within like a week of writing down your dreams, I swear to God you wake up and you're like, wow, I have like a whole novel in my head. Wow.

Yeah, it's really freaky. That's wild. I have a lot of deja vu in my dreams where I know that I'm going to. I'm like, which makes me think like, either there are certain worlds that I just tap into best when I'm sleeping, or even if I think I've forgotten a dream, it is actually still very alive in the back of my head. And you're like reliving it almost in your dreams again.

I go to the same sets all the time in my dreams. Oh my gosh, and sometimes during my day, I'll like think about that set. Yeah, I'm like, I want to go to the same sets all the time in my dreams. Oh my gosh, and sometimes during my day, I'll think about that set. Yeah, I'm like, I want to go to there. That's a nice place. I'm like, oh, the high school hallway with the green lockers, I don't know. Well, now I'm totally gonna end up there.

Now we're gonna meet there. I'll leave you a note in locker 22. Okay, got it. I'll go tell you what the note says. Although I feel like it probably looks like- You'll probably wake up and be like, I remember, and then fall back asleep and go, oh shit. I'll go tell you what the note says. Although I feel like it probably looks like... You'll probably wake up and be like, I remember, and then fall back asleep and go, oh, shit. Yeah, exactly.

I immediately forgot. I forgot to write it down. Or I feel like the handwriting, because maybe I can't read in my dreams or something, and it'll look like AI written words. Oh, my God, like the kind of gobbledygook, like just scribbles, or it'll like not make any sense. Maybe I'll... Oh, I'll put... How about this? I'll put a stuffed animal in your locker locker and you can find that instead of like writing

so that it's not, does that make sense? That's helpful, that's helpful. I'll think of some options so that in case this ever actually happens, I won't stand there and go, uh-oh, which stuffed animal? And then forget. Right, right, right.

Thank you. I gotta be ready. I appreciate that. I gotta be ready. I appreciate that. Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh right, they forgot all their memories of the UFO. Oh yes, yes. They faded away.

They're all fading away, and by the time they got home 10 days later, they had pretty much forgotten the event totally, and it didn't come back for years. And I mean, it probably must have, I mean, I don't know, must, but you're probably right that it has a lot to do with trauma response. Like, if you're just so traumatized

that you block it out until years later when you start processing it, like that would match. On top of space magic, you are- Real-life trauma. You're doomed. On top of space magic, right, like what are you gonna do? Totally.

So years later, they finally have these memories come back and this is in the 80s. Jack starts having nightmares where his back is pressed against a wall but it doesn't feel like a wall, it feels like an upright table. Ah! And on this table, he could not move or speak.

He could only feel and think. And he knew his friends were sitting next to him, also in a trance. This is like, I mean, hell. He's like having sleep paralysis in his dream. In his dream, yeah. This is so fucked up. Yeah, in his dream, right.

And the worst part is like he said, like as he's saying, he could sense his friends next to him, but they were in a altered state where they didn't know to help him. Oh, ew. So he was like aware that they were still in a trance? No, no, no, no, no. Which like, I wonder if like, you know, quote unquote, the anesthesia was wearing off or like if he had to be kind of coherent during the procedures or something.

Cause like, why would they let you even remember that at all? Have that memory, yeah, maybe they gave you something and it slipped, like you said, like the anesthesia wore off or whatever. Ooh, that's horrible. Jack said, I had no idea where I was or why I was there. To my left, I could see my brother, Chuck and Charlie,

sitting on some type of bench, and they were all naked. I was wondering why they weren't helping me because I felt like I was in danger, and while I'm trying to figure this out, I notice this figure or a dark shadowy type figure emerging from the light, this bright light in front of me. Mm. So these, he starts calling them the entities,

and then he starts calling them the things. Mm. And two of these things was, uh, they... starts calling them the entities, and then he starts calling them the things. And two of these things was, he had this bright light in front of him, but then when they showed up, they blocked out the light, and he remembers these two entities coming up to him, looking at him, lifting up his arm, observing his armpit, which yikes, I like, imagine already.

I feel your pain, I feel your pain because I know how much you hate that. Well, I can't imagine anything more like. Vulnerable. Vulnerable than being on a fucking spaceship and like trapped on a fucking bed with aliens. But then to expose your naked fucking armpit to them. That's literally, that's the test. That's the final test. then to expose your naked fucking armpit to them.

That's literally, that's the test. That's the final test. That's a fresh hell. That's a fresh fucking hell, dude. That's the final test. And I know you, don't you in particular hate like the idea of your under, is that you who hates it? I mean, most, but most people I think

have a thing with armpits. I really hate having them open. That's what I thought. I also, I hate having my threck open. Yeah, your threck, me too. I don't like having that open. Like sleeping. But I think that's just, I watch too much Criminal Minds. Me too, sleeping on a plane like this,

I can't sleep like that. Like I always sleep. No, no, no, no, no. Don't expose your throat. Cause I feel like someone's just gonna come over and just, kachoo. Slit it, right. Yeah. I think that's probably from our media consumption how much consumption thank you same thing where if I'm on the couch I'm like

stretched out like this with my hands like over the couch I feel like someone's gonna do that's my wrists your wrists that's what it is it's all of it okay it's all it's all of it okay okay, I get it. Anything that in a natural position is covered is something, like I've got my little armpits, I got the bottoms of my feet. It's like you're a soft underbelly, you know? Like don't show your vulnerable parts. Yes, exactly.

But yeah, I feel like I could have almost been on a UFO, trapped on the bed. I could have probably played it cool up until then, but the second they then hold my arm up. Oh my God. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm screaming like a fucking like, Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Because what are they going to do? Like on earth, the worst thing is they tickle me. In space? In space. They could, with their probing, their inserting, their- Think of the space magic that could happen to that armpit. Oh my God, I can't even, I can't even- I'm sorry, M's really heavy, like a conniption right now.

Oh my God, his poor armpit. This is like how I feel about spines, by the way. So there better not be any of that nonsense. There's no spines. Thank god, OK. So he thinks they're going to implant something in his armpit by the way they're looking at it, which I don't blame him. No.

But honestly, fortunately for him, I would say, he wakes up too early from the dream every time to know what happens from there. Okay, but can I make like a side note, for the first time this episode, can I make a comment? Thank you for the permission. When you said implant it in his armpit, I swear to God it's relevant.

So for a brief period of time, I was on Nexplanon, I think it was called, which is a birth control implant. Oh yeah, that was when we first became friends. Yes, and I reacted very badly to it and I still feel terrible because I recommended it to multiple friends before I had all the side effects. And then they were like, I feel miserable.

And I was like, yeah, maybe get that out because I had to, but beyond that. So what they did, they implanted it like basically in your fucking armpit, Em. And the reason I, oh, I didn't mean to upset you, but what I, I'm sorry, I really, I wasn't saying that to upset you. I was just saying it to say, that seems to be where these kinds of things are implanted.

So maybe the aliens were like, yeah. I mean, clearly we've done it, others can. Yeah, it's kind of like, oh, that's odd because that usually would be where the implant goes. Ah, man, if there were a river, I would just simply jump into it. You would tip the canoe, goodbye cruel world, I'm leaving my husk behind.

Now because of this story, if I ever get abducted in the woods, I am absolutely tanking my own boat, so I't just for my armpit sake. You're like I give up I'm out. So anyway they mess with his armpit for a second he does not have the same panic attack that I did but after so that's like his that's a nightmare that he has that he's strapped to the sink his friends are there they're messing with his armpit. Now it's gonna be a dream I have. And-

Now we're all gonna think it's our reality too. And after each nightmare, he would feel really, really sick like he did the night of the orb. Remember he, like afterwards everyone felt off, but he felt really particularly sick. Oh, ew. So he would have these nightmares and he would feel that same thing all over again

and it would last for days. And then it turned out that his twin was also having the same nightmares. So looking for answers, he goes to a conference where he knows that there's gonna be UFO experts there. He meets Raymond Fowler, who is a big ufologist, and Jack starts writing his experiences down after asking Raymond for help. He's like, please, I just need someone to help me. I guess Raymond said, okay, start writing your stuff down.

And all of a sudden more emerges. That's why it's the same as the dream. It's like writing it down. It like triggers your mind to keep thinking about it. I do wonder if aliens, when you're abducted, they operate on this, not like physically surgeon wise operate, but I wonder if they, whatever they do to you is in the same part of your brain that messes with dreams. Where it's like, it's like,

it's gonna be really fuzzy immediately within a couple of days, you're not gonna remember anything. Where it's like, it's like, it's gonna be really fuzzy immediately within a couple of days, you're not gonna remember anything. It makes me wonder, like when you're put under for Twilight sleep, where you're like sort of conscious and like you can hazy in and out, like maybe that's what they do to you, like Twilight sleep. So you're like, so it's kind of somewhere

in your consciousness, but then it makes you wonder though, why don't they just take you totally out? Like, right, like knock my ass out. Why do the memories resurface? Why are they not good at really deleting memories? Or why can't they just, they can fuck with your subconscious but they can't just make you sleepy?

Like erase it? Yeah, it's so weird. If an alien wanted to abduct me, they could literally just make me wanna take a nap and then I would definitely not remember any of it. Yeah, you don't remember it anyway. You could do whatever you want with my armpits, I wouldn't know. they could literally just make me wanna take a nap and then I would definitely not remember any of it. And like- Yeah, you don't remember it anyway. You could do whatever you want with my armpits.

I wouldn't know. Oh, don't make that proclamation on air. No, Em, what if some people, and they just don't know this, but like what if some people are like more immune to whatever space magic they have. And like, for example, his three friends who were totally out, like maybe some people are like completely put under,

but then some people like break through the anesthesia? I don't know. Yeah, maybe it's more people who do like dream work like you do and they're- Oh, maybe. They're unfortunately, well, I'm gonna stop now cause I don't think I would wanna remember any of this, but yeah, good point. Well, well, I'm going to stop now because I don't think I would want to remember any of this. But yeah, good point.

Well, so, okay, this is how he describes the beings that were in his nightmares. He wrote, because he's, remember, he's writing them down now because he's- Right, oh, for Raymond. More things are showing up in his dreams, yes. In these dreams, he's now seeing them better and remembering them and he writes,

they have large heads on a thin neck and two large Metallic looking eyes by that I mean They are colored like those kinds of phosphorescent beetles that seem to change colors as they move My impression is that they are insect alike, but they have no antennas or anything and they don't have carnivorous looking parts Their hands are at the ends of their arms, but they are not like our hands They are more elongated with only four fingers. There were no eyelids.

This is horrible. This is horrible. I can't cope with it. I like you went, Oh yeah. Yeah. And that's important to know. Eyelids like everything else. Like, Oh, did I mention the no eyelids? Cause there were no eyelids. Wait, speak it. Speaking of another thing that i like fucking creeps me out are eyelids like yeah i know that's on the same on same par as armpits i get that i can totally get that so jack begins referring to these entities as the things

and raimond after like hearing what he's been going through and what he's seeing totally believes that the four men went through something and offered to do, or he offered hypnosis sessions, basically, where he could uncover repressed memories of the event. And they all said yes, but they made Jim go first, which I like how they're like, you go first. And within two sessions, Jim was remembering things.

And he's the one who's been writing it down, right? Him or his twin, but they're having the same nightmares. So got it. Okay. Okay. And the events happened presumably while they were out at shore, this, this abduction, right? So right before getting back to land, when they blacked out they assume that's when this happened.

And he said the event began when they all looked up at the beam of light as it was pointing down directly up on them. They looked up into it and realized that the beam of light actually wasn't just a beam of light, but the light was covering up a tube to a room that they were all pulled up towards. Which I love that it's actually like movie magic where it has to look pretty from far away,

but when you get up close, it's like a bunch of rubber tubing and shit. It's like, just like so janky. They're like, we're just going to vacuum suction you up here. But from, from afar, it looks beautiful. It's like the beam of light makes this a real classy, but actually this is like my dad's broken down RV. And I need you to come up here real quick.

Oh my God. It's a rusty ladder. Yeah. So they, they to come up here real quick. Oh my god it's a rusty ladder. Yeah. So they get sucked up through this tube and he remembered seeing his brother Jack standing against the wall just like in Jack's nightmares. Okay, okay. So now he's seeing the other perspective. That's horrible. So from the other perspective that's no good. The entities were using telepathy of course to communicate with them.

And the things told them to remove their clothes, and then the guys' bodies were evaluated. And the guys were then separated into individual rooms. It doesn't really feel like individual rooms, because I saw a sketch that they had done when they were recounting their experience, and it felt like they were all in one room, but taking turns on the table.

Oh, taking turns on the table, no. Because remember, now this is two perspectives of it, but they're all sitting on a bench when they're not being examined. Exactly, yeah, so they might have been in the same space. And they're just hypnotized to not move until it's their turn to get on the table. Right. Oy. Oh, okay

And so they were all forced to give samples of things I think probably they all got the exact same samples taken out of them But Jim specifically remembers being forced to give a sperm sample Jim was then sent back to the bench where Charlie and Chuck were sitting and then Jack came back as well. Jim felt that the things were more interested because this is what I'm noticing too is that Jack and Jim they're the ones that are having these recurring nightmares they're the ones who remember being evaluated and their friends are just kind of sitting behind. But I feel like because they also felt sick after the experience

and their friends didn't, I'm wondering if more things happened to them or if they were more, something more vulnerable happened to them. And I thought this while doing the notes, but then I saw, you know, through the notes that Jim actually also said the same thing, that maybe the entities were more interested in them because they were identical twins. Literally from the moment you started this and said they were twins, I was like,

oh my God, the aliens are studying the twins just like we are. Yeah. Well, they're like, there's two of them. I mean, that must be fascinating. It must be. If you'd never seen a twin, like two identical twins before, I know it's wrong to stare, but if that was the first time you've ever seen something you'd go hang on.

You'd be so perplexed. Yeah, I'd be like that's just. It's incredible. It's remarkable. Nature is insane. So yeah, anyway, I also thought the same thing of maybe because they're twins, they got more attention and that's why they have more memories coming back faster.

More side effects and yeah, ugh. During the sessions, remember by the way, Charlie just came to Carrie Canoes. He wasn't even on the first invite roster. Poor Charlie. This poor guy. So during the sessions, Jim would get so panicked in his hypnosis that Raymond actually wondered whether it was ethical

to continue the regression. But the hypnotherapist, which just like how we were saying, or even you were saying with Leona, like you just kind of distract them to... Yeah. The hypnotherapist in the room would say, oh no, like even if it's not ethical,

let's rewrite the way that they're seeing things so he'll stop panicking. So now instead of him experiencing these things, we're just having him explain to us what he's seeing on TV. And like, he's just- Right, reframe it so it's less scary. You're not feeling these things,

you're just watching a movie. What's happening in the movie? Just gaslighting. Just totally gaslighting. That's like of all the things concerned here, he's all things considered. Sorry, that's not the worst thing that happened to him today is getting gaslighted.

It's a very good point. And at least it makes him feel better. You're so right. After Jim did his sessions, Jack agreed to do a regression too. And he was able to confirm all the things Jim recalled. He said that the things repeatedly told them, do not be afraid, we won't harm you.

Okay, you're strapped to a table taking samples and looking at my armpit. Nice fucking try. Yeah, my armpit alone is too far. Like the concept of you even knowing or wanting to know about my armpit is harm, so leave me alone. It's harming me already.

Jack told them during his regressions that they also use telepathy on him. He, oh, and then he said, when they said, don't be afraid, we won't harm you, he told them back using telepathy, I am afraid. Like, stop this. Nice. And why also, why can't they make that go away? You know what I mean? Or do they

not want to? Like it's so creepy to me. Like they can control some things and some things seemingly they have no control over. So. Yeah. It's like, I mean, I, I don't know enough about earthbound science, let alone their science, but I do think it's interesting that they, I mean, it's a genius superpower to like, if you need to communicate with us, but we can't hurt you or anything, or we can't disrupt you, they can just like, it's almost like turning the radio volume up and down. Like if they want to talk to us, they can and otherwise they don't have to pay attention to us.

It's kind of crazy. He said he was too, he was afraid regardless of what they were trying to do. He wanted to put his clothes on and he wanted to leave. And Jack remembers having a sample taken from him as well, and then other fluids other than sperm via catheter and enema. Oh my God, what the F? When the procedure was done, he was sat back down on the bench next to the other guys. And from there, the things brought them back to the area

where the other end of the tube was that looks like a light from far away. And I don't know if they got pushed or escorted or whatever, but they are now sliding down the tube to get back to their boat. And the experience of being in the beam of light, he said, felt like being ripped apart in all directions. Oh no, it wasn't even a fun ride?

That's terrible. I know, you'd hope it'd be like the best slide of your life, like just to- Yeah, I would think so, right into the water. Just to make up for it. No, being ripped apart, that makes me think like they really do completely alter your chemistry or something up there for you to accommodate

like whatever they've got going on gravity-wise or altitude-wise or science-wise. Eugh. And then they have to re- And they just toss you back in. Yeah, like recalibrate you for Earth or something. Eugh. A moment later, he remembers being back in the canoe

with his friends and paddling toward shore. Fuckin' hell. It makes me wonder if you're right about maybe they're just frozen and that's why they let them go all the way to shore so that their bodies, they would be like already at shore and maybe they froze. Oh, maybe. And then their like consciousness went up in there and they got back. I don't know. I don't know. It's just it makes it's like well, like was the boat empty or were they all frozen? You know? Well, so Charlie's section was next, or session was next, and he recalled floating

above the canoe looking down at the water and then blacking out and being naked in the room. He was also lying on the table and the thing told him to not be afraid. Then they took skin, blood, and saliva samples from him. God. And Charlie said, "'It's cold like a doctor's office is cold.

We shouldn't be here. I just kept thinking I want to be back in the canoe. And when it was over, to answer your question, he remembers one of the things physically helping them step back into the canoe, which was mored by the beam of light. So the boat had stayed put in the water the entire time. Oh, so they basically did that thing and like froze the boat and then pulled them out of it. Oh, ew!

Yeah, and then by the time... And you know what's crazy is that they probably can fucking cloak that by putting that stupid beam of light and like cloaking that from the outside so that they're just in this tube and no one can see. And no one can see the boat, yeah. Ugh. But yeah, so the boat had just been essentially

docked mid-water by them. I see. And then, but yeah, I wonder if they were like, oh, well, we know they're gonna be tired after all the exams, so let's let them get to shore first. Right, we'll let them get closer to their campsite. If you're already gonna do this, can you not just like teleport them right back onto land?

Just into their beds. Can you please not, you know? this, can you not just like teleport them right back onto land? Can you please not? Well, but you hear stories like, I forget the guy's name. I've talked about it before, but like one of the, oh, Terry Lovelace, like one of the scariest abduction stories ever. And like he would describe and some other people have described, like they get back to their campsite or what have you. And like their shoes are on the wrong feet or like they'll wake up and be like, why is

my shirt on backwards? Or my clothes are inside out. It's almost like somebody haphazardly tossed your stuff back on, or hoisted you into the canoe and said, okay, bye, just half-assed it. So that does make sense, I guess, that your whole body would go.

Yeah, no thank you. Well, even then, to answer an even earlier question of like, I wonder what's going on mentally for them or what these things are doing to their brains. In Charlie's session, he remembers the things telling them telepathically to forget the experience and pretty immediately he did. So they must also have some sort of power to just be like... Persuasion. It's so weird to use hypnosis to remember a time you were hypnotized.

To not remember. You were hypnotized to not remember something. Now you let's hypnotize you to remember. Like girl math, or cancelling it out. It cancels out. Also, I realize you guys sound probably pretty stupid because I'm like, oh, well, maybe their bodies are frozen, but then I'm like, wait, they were getting samples from them. So I guess their bodies had to be up there.

But anyway. It had to be an empty boat at some point, yeah. So that's their three. Then in Chuck's session, he also remembers being naked in a bright room. He said it looked like a veterinary office. He also had samples taken. And he also recalls watching Charlie's exam.

So he was the only one who could remember sitting on the bench and watching one of his friends have a procedure done. That is weird. And so he regressed back to him being in a trance on the bench. And he said, I see some sort of device on him. They've got this thing that looks like a silvery. It looks like it's of device on him. They've got this a thing that looks like a silvery It looks like the like it's got curves on it. It's almost like it sucks something He's got his head tipped all the way back. He's it's almost like he's in pain. We can't help him

All I can do is watch Jesus Christ no wonder this is so I mean, this is so traumatizing. Yeah. Jesus. He also remembers going through, I assume this is the beam of light, the tube. He remembers going through a portal with a membrane at the door before the things placed him back in the canoe. So that was all of their sessions that they had and what they could remember. And while Raymond is doing all of this research on them, he didn't do the actual hypnotizing,

but he knew a guy. So between the two of them, they're making this case. He starts asking them also about their childhoods. And breaking news, Chuck remembers in one of these regression sessions that he had actually seen the things before in his childhood bedroom. Fuck. Also breaking news, during their sessions,

the twins remembered, oh yeah, we used to have a poltergeist in our childhood home. Oh my God. And then Raymond was like, okay, I'm gonna ask your parents about this because like why didn't you remember a fucking poltergeist or why did you not mention it until now? Yeah.

And Raymond goes and talks to the twins' mother. The twins are like, I think in their 20s or 30s now and he's going to their mom and he's like, do you remember a poltergeist? And her name's Jean. And she was like, oh my god, yeah, Harry. Shut the fuck up. OK, so first of all, we've got Jean Jack and what's his name? And Jim.

Jean Jack, Jim. I like to think the dad's name is John. It better be. I'll be really disappointed if it's like Kurt. Anyway, so Harry the fucking poltergeist. Okay, forget it. Jean says that Harry was a humanoid figure that the whole family saw at different points.

He was totally white with flowing robes and a beard. What in the world? Fun fact, according to Raymond and all of his UFO research, other abductees reported having childhood figures show up in their home accompanying aliens wearing robed clothes. Well, there was... Wearing flowing robes. There's one, I think it was Terry Lovelace actually,

said that when they would visit as a child, they would dress up as like clowns and they would have like circus monkeys. And he was like, it was honestly scarier, but it was almost as though they were trying to make me feel at ease. But it's like, they don't get that clowns walking into your room in the middle of the night. It doesn't make you feel easy. So yeah, anyway, that's really, really creepy.

Yeah. So, um, no thanks. But apparently they think Harry was like a co-conspirator in the alien situation. Yeah. Jack added that as a kid, he used to be woken up by a horrible monster who had the power to paralyze him in bed and Him and his brother would hear music at night next to their bed They'd wake up to knocking on their door when no one was there and voices calling their names Jack also felt something pulling covers off of him at night and trying to yank him out of bed He also alleged seeing a ball of light moving through his house when he was home alone one day. And all of these experiences with Harry kept happening until they were 15 and then

no activity. They always thought it was a ghost, but Raymond thinks it was connected to the things watching them since childhood. I mean, the fact that everyone saw it and... I was going to say, this suggests that hauntings that the whole family knows about could actually be aliens doing early prep on your kid to abduct them later. You just traumatize so many people. Anybody whose kid has had a weird experience are like, oh, no. Oh, no. And like, but I mean,

not that this was like the aliens, like, direct intention, but it's almost genius because then you can get away with doing essentially lab research on a future abductee. And if you just put it under the guise of a ghost, you can do it in front of the whole family and no one will know what's going on. Yeah. I mean, what the fuck? Yeah. And it's always explained away as like, oh, an imaginary friend or like, oh, it's just the kids are imagining things or having weird dreams. Like we can brush that off.

And meanwhile, a clown is in the closet like hee hee. Oh. Well, so Jim later recovers another memory of actually being abducted by a bright orb when he was out sledding as a kid so it was actually not his first abduction. Oh my god. Who is doing the hypnosis the hit the regressions. I want to do one. This man is so powerful. I feel like I was abducted too 18 times. I don't know. Yeah help me. Chuck remembered also remember he saw things

when he was a kid he remembered seeing strange creatures in his room when he was four or five, which made him go sleep in his parents' room because he was too freaked out. And then the same creatures came back another time when he was in bed and he was so scared that he remembers just trying to fall asleep to them, observing him and then leaving.

Ah, poor thing. Jack then, and by the way, again, Charlie was just there to bring the fucking canoes. Like, like Chuck and the twins, they've all had these experiences since childhood. Now they're all getting abducted together, which makes me think like, do you think the aliens were like, oh my God, patient one and two and patient three somehow all know each other. We need to abduct all of them together and see. And so what I said was right. They saw Chuck and went,

motherfucker, who invited that guy? Or Charlie, and they were like, who invited that guy? This is not, he's not supposed to be here. Charlie collateral damage, the canoe man, I suppose. But wait, also, what if they somehow orchestrated that they would all three be on this camping trip? You know what I mean? Like, maybe it's not by chance that they're friends.

Maybe it's like, oh, they put these people in touch. I don't know. This is where you get like the, the aliens are actually the gods pulling all the strings. And like playing the Sims with us. Yeah, and it's like, oh, well, this guy and this guy and this guy, we've been working with all of them for years, let's put them all,

let's all make sure that they... Let's toss them in the same pottery class. It's like when you find two puppy dogs and you make them kiss, you press their feet into each other. It's like, now you've got these three people and you're like, oh, let's all smush them together on the same trip and put them in the same boat

and isolate them out in the water. And then there's Charlie, but I guess we can, we'll take the spare, you know. We'll find something to do with them. We'll give him to the interns, the water. And then there's Charlie, but I guess we can, we'll take the spare, you know. Poor Charlie. We'll find something to do with him. We'll give him to the interns, you know, practice. Yeah, that's horrible, sorry, God. That poor guy, that poor guy.

So anyway, yeah, it could have been fully, like, divinely orchestrated in some way. But yeah, Jim, Jack, and Chuck all had really creepy experiences when they were kids. One of the twins was abducted. And Jack then later remembered that after the whole event that happened out in the water, that the things came back and abducted him again. What?

Apparently, he woke up in the middle of the night one time to let the dogs out and saw a light go through his window. And then he saw the things appear in his room. They woke up, his wife who was in bed with him, who like she probably, being married to someone who's been abducted, I feel like you're like, I could be next.

I'd be like sleep in a different room or house or country, please. I Feel like Mary maybe had that thought and unfortunately it was a it was a true a valid fear because apparently the things Wanted Jack and I guess because Mary was there they went come along Mary just like they did to Charlie No, and in a trance, they both walked out of the field and followed the light. And Jack remembers being told, go home and go to bed. And if he tried talking about this event, it would hurt.

You've had stories like that before too. Not you, but you know, you told stories like of being really painful or uncomfortable to talk about which yeah It's and also so mysterious as to like it like would it physically hurt will karma come back? Will you hear about it and do something to me? But also for them to go don't be afraid We're not gonna hurt you. But if you ever talk about this again, it's gonna fuck Yeah, and you're gonna be traumatized for the rest of your life, but that doesn't count Yeah, and

But so when he discovered this in his regression, so like, holy shit, they've been back and they've hurt me and my wife. His wife heard about that and went, can I actually get in on that next hypnosis session, please? I want to see what's going on there. And so since she was involved in the abduction case, Mary did a session.

The guy who is doing the hypnosis suggested that she bring a friend in case she was uncomfortable in a room with men performing hypnosis on her, which seems nice, but also I think it was maybe more for him to make sure there was a witness in the room that he wasn't doing anything fishy. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Like for his own business, I think you, for his own business, I think he didn't want to be accused of anything, but it was also written like he really did worry about her fear for safety. Well, it's like, why would you even need to insist that? That seems weird, but okay, whatever. Yeah, I don't know how to feel about it. I would just say bring a friend in case it's emotionally

difficult or something. Like you don't have to say in case, I don't know. In case you're worried about me It's like a guy when he's like I'm not dangerous Yeah, and I'm like girl now I'm fucking now I take the bear now, please get away So maybe maybe he was a great guy. I don't know but it just I felt weird felt off but um anyway, so she brought along Chuck's wife and Ultimately she was not that she was too uncomfortable in the session, but she couldn't like something was preventing her from talking about the event as if something told her don't talk about this or you'll be hurt.

And so she couldn't actually go through with the session. And because of that, the guy who was doing the hypnosis, his name's Tony, by the way, he decided that he was going to do a different tactic and use a pendulum, which is usually obviously used to communicate with spirits, but if she held it in her hands and maybe just kind of like let herself sink into her subconscious, then maybe she would make tiny movements with her hand that she didn't realize she was in control over something and they

would give the answers that she needed. So I don't know how accurate of a test that is. I don't know if that's reliable enough, but she ends it up getting some answers. Again, like they can be taken with a grain of salt, but this whole story can too, so whatever. She asked, had she experienced something that night that she was told to forget, and then the pendulum said yes, she asked, could she remember these if she wanted to, the events, it said yes.

And then she asked, would the events scare her, and she got yes. Oh no. By the end of the session, she had determined she was abducted with Jack and had endured several exams similar to the guys. And once Tony finished his sessions with everyone, Raymond compiled all the documentation and that includes like character testimonies and things like that. Anyone who knew any of these people said they would not make this up. Um,

and Raymond later published the book, a book about it called the Allagash abductions, uh, undeniable evidence of alien intervention. And the media picked up on it. The Allagash four ended up even going on talk shows for a while. Um, and they remained close with each other for quite some time until there was a rift between Chuck and the other three men. And in 2016, Chuck said that the other three cut him out of his circle and he felt like he could finally say that the details of the event were exaggerated. According to Chuck, the fire logs that they put out so that way it would burn forever, they were

actually much smaller and could have burnt out on their own within that time, taking away the lost time element that everyone was harping on. He also said that they were, you know, smoking really intense, super concentrated cannabis. But also, if there were drugs involved, I don't think there's a cannabis product out there that would make you hallucinate a whole ass abduction. I mean, it seems maybe I don't think there's a cannabis product out there that would make you hallucinate a whole ass abduction. I mean, it seems...

Maybe. I don't know. I mean, it could, I guess, but it seems unlikely that all three of them would have this shared, or all four of them, I guess. But yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It seems like it doesn't explain everything. Also the other three said that they were like, we were not under the influence. We had each had one beer that night. They also said that they'd been having issues with Chuck for a long time and hence their breakup with him and that him going out causing this controversy that it wasn't real was just

him being vengeful after they broke up with him. Which I could totally see that being like, oh, if you don't wanna be my friend anymore, I'm gonna tell everyone that like, none of this happened. And the fact that he didn't say none of it happened, right? Or did he say- Yeah, it was exaggerated.

He didn't say like, oh no, we all made it up. Like he's like, no, it was just different than that. It's like, well, that's still scary. Yeah, yeah. Can't explain it. They said Chuck, one of the reasons that they ended things with him was that he once approached them to try to make money off of the story. And his pitch was that he would try to announce that the handling of their case was done improperly,

trying to just stir up shit and cause controversy between like all the people who like were helping them. I don't totally understand. And also MUFON, the mutual UFO network, they were heavily involved in this I guess, and so Chuck was trying to, I think he was just trying to stir shit up so that way they would still be the talk of the town and it would keep interest

or something like that. And they thought that from that moment, their relationship with him never really recovered because why would you want to exploit us for the situation? Chuck went on to say that he is open-minded about alien abductions, but he does not think any of the four of them were abducted that night. And the others who are still friends say

that Chuck changed his story just because he wanted to control the narrative. He's also like one of the ones who in his regression said that he like saw aliens and shit at night when he was a kid. So I feel like, like, are you just saying you lied the whole time or is that true? But this isn't. Jim later put out a statement saying, Jack, Charlie and I, after all these years, are still in agreement with the event as we remember it. We also accept the results of the hypnotic regression sessions and subsequent polygraph tests

as support of an abduction. And then Chuck, his accusations, although they've made some people discredit the story, including those who doubt the reliability of hypnosis. That has not stopped the Allagash IV from being one of the most significant abductions in the 20th century. Wow.

That's the Allagash IV. I can't believe I don't know this story at all. I would like to, because you keep mentioning him, I really wanna cover Terry Lovelace. It scared me so badly, Em, that I lost sleep, and I don't usually lose sleep over stuff. I was so freaked out, dude. It's scary.

I would love to do that one. It does sound like a lot. No, I mean- It sounds like actually you know it pretty well. I would be annoying about it, I'm sure, but like, A Sawnishing Legends, I think did like a four part, and you know their episodes are like four hours each. So, and they interviewed him. I's like a four part and you know, their episodes are like four hours

Oh, yeah, so and they interviewed him. I feel like with astonishing legends. You almost never need to hear another version of it They cover every which like I'm this is not me bashing them at all It's just very different than the way that obviously I handle things But they will tell you like the color of the floor on the, of their childhood home, blah, blah. Like they will tell you every single piece of information. And I love that. I'm like, tell me every tiny bit. Like I need to know every little bit.

And some people don't like that. And I'm like. No, I think mine are definitely more crash courses. And if you want to learn more, there's more out there for you. Yeah, if you're like really into a topic, especially, like you'll find everything you need from them on the subject. Yeah. You don't have to do especially, like you'll find everything you need from on the subject.

Yeah, you don't have to do any, like they have watched everything and researched everything and but yeah, all their episodes are also like four episodes long. So that's why mine are more bite size as I just talked for an hour and a half. Ours are bite size but like compared to other podcasts are like fucking hella long.

So it's like, you know, we're somewhere. It's an astonishing legends. Light. Yeah. It's an. AL light. Okay. So I have a true crime case for you today.

This is a story that I've actually wanted to cover since the dawn of this podcast because. Oh my God. You really waited a long time. I know, I've known about it for a long time and I was always upset by it and I just put it off, put it off, put it off. Then Saoirse recommended it. I said, you know what, let's do it.

It's about time. This is the story of Blanche-Monnais. Now this takes place in France, so I apologize is all I'm gonna say. Okay. But there's a town in west central France called Poitiers and it is an, I guess people in the US often say Poitiers, Poitiers, but apparently it's Poitiers. Okay. Because the S is silent. I'm sure French people are like horrific. But anyway, so in the 19th century,

this town was an important hub for culture, history, education, and they had a university. They're called University of Poitiers. And in that time, this is like the late 1800s, we're talking, there was a man named Charles Emile Monnier and he was greatly involved in the town's cultural history. He was an academic and he eventually even became the Dean of University of Poitiers. And he's up there.

I'm telling you this to say like he's in the upper echelon of society. Big dude in charge dude in charge his wife. Madame Louise de Marconi Monnier was a So not right was a descendant of the French aristocracy. So they are like not a love match but a status match She had been born in 1825 to a successful stockbroker and when she was 22, Louise and Charles married. And as wealthy newlyweds, they were able to make their home in a large, beautiful townhouse in the city of Poitiers. And if they wanted to, you know,

take a break from city life, they could enjoy their second home in the countryside and they would rent out that property to make additional income when they weren't there. All of this to say they're very socially important. They're at the top of the food chain and even in, not just in Poitiers, but also in France, they had a lot of sway. They're descendants of aristocrats. They're very, very important people. Now, public opinion of the family was said to have been extremely positive. People really thought this family was the creme de la creme, like just great people. The Kardashians, royalty.

I don't know about Kardashians. I would say they have more of a up and down reputation, but these people were known to be the most like noble giving, you know, charitable, involved in society, family, one of the most top tier families in town. Like of the upper echelon, they are some of the good guys. Yeah, tippy top. And they were so involved, you know,

societally speaking and in charitable organizations, et cetera. And public opinion of Madame Louise, the mother, was very positive. However, she was said to be, this is like later we found out, said to be intimidating and demanding at home. So according to their house staff, Charles, the father, would often defer to Louise for most things, and apparently Louise liked it this way because she had a cruelness about her that she reserved only for people under her own roof. So that's nice.

So do you think so was the her being super kind? Is that is that like just for show than you think? I don't even know that anyone thought they were kind. I think it was just like, oh, they do so much for the town and culture, the arts. Like, they're just very, uh, she's very, uh, involved and popular and you know, in all, on all the boards. Like I don't know that people thought she was like really congenial and like fun to be around. I think people in the fancy hierarchy just thought like, oh, those are some upstanding

citizens, you know, that's kind of the vibe I get. And I think also back then, like it was totally chill to be a fucking cruel person to your staff at home or like your, you know, I don't think people were looking down on her for treating her maids with disrespect, you know? So she was definitely considered more demanding and harsh at home, but yeah, outwardly, she was very polite and upstanding. So very respected people for their noble lineage, their wealth, Charles's academic position,

which made him very smart, Louie's social contributions to the town. And so as a 19th century socialite, it was basically her responsibility to get involved in anything considered high society. We're talking the arts, museums, theater, charities, social causes, church, throwing balls and parties, you know, all that nonsense. That's kind of what she was like A plus at. So her appearances and actions, you know,

needed to reflect perfectly and properly on her family and Charles, her husband, and themselves as a couple. So every aspect of their lives needed to be up to this like rigid social expectation of the time, of their class. And it seemed like they were nailing it. Even the staff they employed in the home were, as far as Madame Louise was concerned, were representative of their standing in society.

And so, for an example, a woman named Madame Renard, a maid who worked for the family for 40 years, actually received a medal because of how diligently and well she did her job as a servant in this household. She got a medal for it. I feel like I'd be like, give me a raise, but okay, thanks for the medal. The city apparently had a committee of good works and so they handed out a medal to the Monier family made for outstanding contributions. You know, I would like to know what she's, like what qualified or was it just to keep someone at bay?

No, no, okay, you'll actually get it. The award honored her for serving the family faithfully for so long and virtuously all her life. So she basically devoted her entire adult life to working for this family. Gotcha. So be a lifer. Yeah, and assuming, and Saoirse put this note in too, we don't really know necessarily like what this medal like really entailed,

but we could kind of assume from the time that it probably means she set like a good example for the younger servants and maids, that she did thorough work, was commendable and dependable, that she was discreet probably, especially with like upper society, that she didn't, she avoided gossip, she kept the family's personal business private for 40 years, all this, you know, so I think that would be what qualifies. In other words, we would not get this trophy, even though we'd want it so bad. Not at all, the second that you said,

I do want it so bad, I just love collecting Otrowski, but if the requirement is to not gossip, I'm out. Yeah, we are done, we're fired. We never even got the job to begin with, let alone a medal for it. Anyway, the award also honored the Monnier family because they had such virtuous staff. And so that reflected directly on them

as being good managers of their household. Like you're really keeping all these people under lock and key. Here's a medal, you know, it's just like. So they got a medal for giving someone else a medal? Or this woman got a medal and then by proxy they got a bigger medal because they're the ones who hired her. Oh I see.

She reflects our family. It's like, okay, I guess. I'd be so pissed if I got a medal. Finally I got something, I got some recognition and then they got all of the... They get to say the thank you speech and their names on the plaque. It really would suck. I'd be like, well I'll just go fucking sit here and play Tiddlywinks and then they got all of the... They get to say the thank you speech and their names on the plaque. Yeah. It really would suck.

I'd be like, well, I'll just go fucking sit here and play Tiddlywinks with my fucking medal. Thank you. Fuck you. But also, if you think about it, how else would you get to the point of getting a medal unless you just deferred to them your whole life, right? Exactly.

So it's like, we'd never even... She'd probably be thrilled. She'd probably give them the medal, be like, congratulations, you earned this. And it's like, wait we'd never even, she'd probably be thrilled. She'd probably give them the medal, be like, congratulations, you earned this. And it's like, wait a minute, this is so fucked up. But yeah, so we would be out of the running immediately. But the point of all this is just to say that the Monnier family, they were very rich,

very powerful, very well liked. I mean, they had fucking medals for God's sake for hiring diligent staff, like yikes. So for the decades they were married until Charles died and he left Louise with a considerable sum of money and she was a very comfortable widow and they had somehow managed all these years to avoid any sort of gossip or scandal

that ruined other families of their social strata. But in 1901, that all changed. Oh. Now, soon, your other comparisons might be more apt, more of a shift in their standing, one might say. Interesting, interesting. So, here we go. In 1901, and I'm, I already said it wrong.

In 1901, an anonymous letter was delivered to the Poitiers town public prosecutor slash the, what we know of as an attorney general. Okay. And that letter will be revealed shortly, but not yet. Cause I'm holding that like a carrot dangling it I was gonna say really really Leading me. I don't know leading me towards a mystery. Yeah, I'm like just trying to

Keep it wrapped up and not spoil it all too soon so Quick recap of this whole family. We have Louise and Charles, they're married. They end up having two children. Their first child was a son named Marcel, who was born in 1848. And as far as we know, he was a well-behaved child, grew into a kind and intelligent gentleman of the time.

He earned a doctorate in law at the University of Poitiers. He got a job in the government. He married a noble woman from Spain. Like he's just checking all the boxes for like good son in Victorian times, he married a noble woman from Spain. Like he's just checking all the boxes for like good son in Victorian times, you know, like he's nailing it. So even more checking all the boxes, like he checked the bonus, what do you call it?

Bonus points? Yeah, bonus points box when he and his wife moved across the street from his mother. So like, he not only marries like the right person from the right social status, they both then move across the street from his mother. So like, he not only marries like the right person from the right social status, they both then move across the street so that she like has her son and daughter-in-law like right there.

Yeah, she's doing, he's doing what every Jewish mother is just begging for. Like wishes for, yes, exactly. It's like, man, every, I feel like this is that child that everybody wanted. I'm gonna raise a nice Jewish boy, he's gonna meet a nice Jewish girl and she's gonna be all these things and then they're gonna move right across the street For me, and then he'll always be my little baby Until he has a baby then that's my little baby. Yeah

Yeah, so that's exactly it. They like checked all the boxes for like perfect little son and They lived across the street and they had a daughter named Marie Dolores, which I think is cute because Marie is French and I'm assuming Dolores maybe comes from her Spanish background. So that's kind of a fun little name. So the Monnier's second child after Marcel was a daughter named Blanche, as we would say, but it's much prettier in French. Blanche, not Blanche as we would say but it's much prettier in French Blanche not Blanche. Yeah, but you know, I feel like anyone whose name is

Blanche comes to the US and we go hey Like the They're like call me anything else, please please don't call the worst name all of a sudden It's like the most beautiful to the to the really the worst. I'm sorry, if your name is Blanche, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just saying like the way that Americans pronounce it compared to the original French. We really bastardized the sound.

Man, let's get back. If your name is Blanche for real, first of all, that's kick ass because it rhymes with so many things like branch. Secondly, can we start calling you Blanche? Because I think if we started the trend and changed your name from Blanche to Blanche, we could really set a new movement going.

You know, but also in French, you can't say Branche. Yeah, you're right. Although that does make branch all of a sudden. Branch. Oh, maybe they do say Branche and we just don't know it. Wow, wow. Anyway, sorry. I really probably just insulted people. I wasn't trying to If it makes you feel better. My name is so much prettier in French and German I think and in English. I mean, oh What's your naming in

German just Christina Christina, which just sounds better like It just I don't know it rolls off the tongue. Yeah, but it's that one, it's that sound in German. Oh yeah. That, Christine Maria. You know? How do you say Christina? Christina. All right.

Yeah, that is better. I'm just gonna keep saying Christina in French. I think it's even prettier in French. It's like, I don't know how to say it, but it's like very, it's like two syllables, I think. I feel like you're not making fun of anyone with a certain name, you're just making fun of Americans again.

What else is new? I know. Oh boy. Okay, so in any case, Blanche Blanche was born in 1849, just a year after her older brother. She was said to be a happy and graceful child, very pretty. She grew up interested in religion. She studied at a Christian school for

a time and actually wanted to become a nun. But eventually she left the school and as the story goes grew into a beautiful and kind socialite, outgoing, very desirable, had countless suitors vying for her affection. But according to the rumors, when Blanche was 25, she vanished. She vanished. Stop. She vanished. Yeah, she vanished at age 25. And suddenly she was just not out and about at social events.

She wasn't at parties, dinners, she wasn't at balls. She wasn't out for walks with her mother. She never visited her sister-in-law or niece across the street. Even her family just stopped speaking about her. Wow. Yep. Just totally erased from history, basically. And when asked, Madame Louise would only say that her daughter was away.

And so people kind of read into that, right? Thinking either she moved abroad or maybe she was sent away to like a boarding school. My first thought is, oh, my first thought immediately was that she's in like a psychiatric hospital. A psychiatric ward, exactly. And so people are throwing these rumors around and eventually with no like clear answers, just rumors, it just the story died down and people stopped asking. So years went by in 1882 Charles Monnier died.

Like I said, leaving Madame Louise alone at home with her staff with a pretty considerable sum of money. You know, she was not left wanting and Blanche was said to live too far away to visit,, you know, she was not left wanting. And Blanche was said to live too far away to visit, but you know, was happy wherever she was. Marcel called on his mother several times a day and life went on as usual. That is until 25 years after Blanche had disappeared on May 23rd, 1901, when the chief superintendent of the Poitiers police knocked on the door and told the maid who answered that he must speak with the woman of the house, Madame Louise.

And that woman said, no, I'm trying to earn my medal. I'm not fucking winning anymore. Click and slam the door. She literally said, who do you think I am? Someone who's gonna let you call upon the lady of the house and ruin my great streak of 40 years of discreet service? You're exactly right, because she said, no, sorry, Madam Louise is ill and on bed rest, goodbye,

and slam that door. And she made sure everyone knew to whisper it back to the lady of the house so she could get that mail. That, you know what? She said it loud enough. She's very ill. She can't see anyone right now. Uh.

And she pointed at the trophy case right by the lady's bedroom being like, oh, you see that big gap right there in the trophy case? Oh, look right through there and you'll see her bedroom where she's sitting. Yeah, look right in that shining spotlight we have set up for that empty spot in the trophy case. Oh, look right through there and you'll see her bedroom. Yeah, look right in that shining spotlight we have set up for that empty spot in the case. So yeah, she says, Madam Louise is on bed rest, sorry, bye.

And the superintendent said, I have to speak with her. And she said, sorry, you can go across the street. That's where her son lives. So go speak with Marcel. So Marcel's maid answers the door and tells the superintendent, "'Oh, Marcel is actually ill and on bed rest right now.'" And you know that first maid was like,

"'Seriously? You had to steal my fucking line? Like now they don't believe us.'" And just as expected, the superintendent is like, "'That's weird. So you're both suddenly ill and on bed rest. How convenient.'" Actually he said, quote, "'It's quite odd how everyone in both these houses is unwell.

Tell your master that I am the chief superintendent and I have an important message for him. And then Marcel was like, Okay, I'll okay, fine. I'll talk to you. Okay, whatever you say. I'm super sick, but I guess I'll talk to you. So Marcel agreed to speak with the superintendent and the superintendent told him, you know We've had some interesting posts come through to the Attorney General yesterday in fact an anonymous letter had arrived at the office of the Attorney General and the letter read as follows Monsieur Attorney Attorney General

Monsieur Attorney General, I have the honor to inform you of an exceptionally serious occurrence. I speak of a spinster who was locked up in Madame Monnier's house, half-starved, and living on a putrid litter for the past 25 years in a word in her own filth. So, okay, it's giving like real Rapunzel, or what's the one that's locked in the tower? That's the one. Okay, that sounds like, that's what I'm immediately associating it with. Yeah.

But I feel like, now that you're saying that, I feel like you have mentioned this story in passing to me. I think I have. About like, someone who was literally trapped. Because it is also, it's too weird for her mom to just be like, oh, she's sent away. It'd be one thing if she vanished and like the family was distraught,

being like, where the fuck is she? But the fact that they didn't care, that immediately fished in. I know, but I think back then, if you were wealthy, you could just be like, oh, she's just away at boarding school and it's like an asylum or something. I feel like you could just say things and nobody would find out.

Oh, especially because she's a woman, oh, we just sent her off. And she's summering. She's summering or she's off to Canada or America, blech, in the new world, ignore her. They're calling her Blanche now. Yeah, they're calling her Blanche. Why would she go to Canada?

I don't know. I guess in Canada, you could be Blanche still. Go to Montreal. There's a 50-50 chance at least. Yeah, you're right. That's a good point. Anyway, so this is just the horrific letter that arrives. And Marcel is like, that's ridiculous.

Of course not. I see my sister every day and she's doing great. She's really well cared for. She's very healthy. And the superintendent said, okay, that's great news, but I would like to see her before I leave. Yeah, if you see her every day, call her down. Yeah, like where is she?

Yeah, exactly. And he said, oh no, guess what? Blanche is sick and on bed rest. Yeah, it's like, wow, weird. She's actually at the metal shop right now, just polishing it for me. No, Marcel says Blanche has been sick for 10 years with a pernicious fever,

and so she is not allowed to have any visitors unless the doctor approves it. But thank God the superintendent was like, uh, no, I think I'll stay and see her whether she's sick or not. I just like, I just want to make sure nothing fishy is going on here. So Marcel was like, I'll take you to mother and walked him back across the street. Cause he's like, this is out of my fucking league. Mom, right. The situation.

So Marcel and the superintendent walk across the street and the mom Louise was like, I don't know. I think like you can just trust it and take our word for it. Take a sadder word, you know, she's fine. She's just like, has a little bit of a fever. But finally the superintendent said, I need you to understand I'm not leaving until I see her. Like I just- Well, also if someone tells you, oh, I'm not leaving until I see her. Like I just.

Well, also if someone tells you, oh, she's had a fever for 10 years, it's not like you can think, oh, well, I'll just wait. Right, to call me when she feels better. I'm gonna sit in the hall. Literally, so true. So he's like, I mean, now or never, and it's not never,

cause I'm gonna stay here until you show me that she's okay. And so finally, the mom was like, all right, come follow me and leads the superintendent upstairs to the third floor. And they're in this dark area and the superintendent finds his door, but it's padlocked. Oh God. He's like, this is really alarming,

but he manages to break the door down and there's barely, when the door is broken down, the stench that emanates from this room is so overpowering that he can barely stay put. And what year was this? 1901. Okay, in my mind, things were already a little stinky in 1901 anyway, so like they were used to a whole level of smell that we are.

Right. And then on top of that, this had to be for us thinking. And this was like very, very, very, very disturbing immediately. So he goes into the room and he has to leave right away when he's hit with the smell. And a few minutes later, he finally, you know, was, he pulled himself together, so to speak, and steeled himself and went back in. And according to a report written at the time, the superintendent said, quote, Blanche, whom we could not see, was lying on a poor pallet and covered with a blanket, all repugnantly filthy.

Across his pallet ran insects and vermin, feeding on the feces on the unfortunate woman's bed. We tried to uncover her face, but she clung to the blanket, which covered her entirely, shrieking loudly like a wild woman. Unable to stay in the room any longer due to its repulsive filthiness, we withdrew." true. Yeah, I can't imagine the, um, like just, just infection possibilities alone. Yeah. Yeah. Shocking.

Like if you have one cut or one sore and you're just living in a room full of. Fecal matter and rotten food. Yeah. So was, was the rest of the, this is like, so not even like a. No, it's very important. The rest of the house is like so not even know that it's very important. The rest of the house was fucking spotless. OK, I was going to say like where how are rats getting out of this place? So relevant that it's actually mentioned multiple times in sources,

because this was not a case of, oh, they're just unhygienic and don't have the money. Like this was such a high proper woman with a whole team of maids, the rest of the house was fucking spotless. And like she herself, Louise, had full, was fully presentable, like societally presentable, you know, just being at home was like fully made up, fully done. And so this-

And also people are coming in and out all the time. If you're that big, you've got people coming over for even meetings or business things. Yeah, charity stuff. And so yeah, this is basically like complete contrast to the rest of the house and to herself. Was she high up enough in the building that like no one would hear her

if she like screamed for help or something? Not quite. So yeah, we'll get there. So later that day, great question. Later that day, the magistrate reported to examine Blanche and her living conditions himself. He walked in and he ordered the window to be open to let in light and fresh air

because the window had actually been boarded and padlocked shut and covered. So there was not a ray of light in that room. The shutters had been closed for so long, they had to be removed from their hinges in order to open. When the light shined in, the magistrate could finally see what was going on in this room and observe Blanche herself.

She was lying in bed, completely naked, there were no clothes in the room. She was visibly, dangerously malnourished, and she was now 52 years old. When they took her in, they realized who she was, because at first they just got reports, this mysterious anonymous letter saying, oh, there's a woman being held captive in this house.

And they go in, they rescue this woman, they take her to the hospital, and they're like... And then they realize she's like a royal or like an upper crust lineage. They put the dots together and go, wait, this is the daughter that was missing 25 years ago that people just kind of brushed off and moved on. And so now they're realizing that this woman

has been in there since she's 20, in her 20s and now she's 52 and she weighs. Oh my God. 55 pounds. Oh my God. That's how malnourished she was. Her hair was waist length and matted as if it had not been brushed or washed in years. The magistrate later said the unfortunate woman was lying

completely naked on a rotten straw mattress. All around her was formed a sort of crust made from excrement, fragments of meat, vegetables, fish and rotten bread. We also saw oyster shells and bugs running across Mademoiselle Monnier's bed. I don't even know how you like lung infections alone of breathing that in. I'm like, how do you like, she... I mean, yeah, I imagine her body is shut down

by this point being, not shut down completely obviously, but like being 55 pounds, you're not getting your any sort of nourishment. But even like, but bugs all over her and like sleeping in bugs, sleeping in rats, sleeping in, and then just breathing all that stuff in. And if, man, I like don't know what's like the worst part of it.

Yeah, it's all very, very, very horrific. The magistrate inspected the rest of the house and like I was saying, everything was clean and organized. Madame Louise herself was carefully groomed. It seemed like Blanche alone was subject to like the filth and neglect. This was not a family issue. This was just for a special torture reserved for her. So on May 24th, Marcel and Madame Louise, so Madame Louise and her son were arrested.

And rumors surrounding Blanche's horrific imprisonment and neglect started swirling, of course, especially with these people being like the most upstanding members in town, you know. And it was said that she had... So the story that people had started kind of telling, and this is the most commonly told, this is the most commonly told version of the story. So it's unclear how much of this is true versus just people adding onto the story. But it was said that she had fallen in love with an attorney who lived nearby. He was 14 years older than her, and he had no money and no title. And so her mom disapproved. And he was also a Protestant and Blanche came from a long line of noble Catholics.

And so when she refused to break off this relationship with this attorney, the story goes that Madame Louise locked her away as punishment and said, I'll let you out when you agree, you'll break off this relationship. And she refused. And so it's hard to say whether that's the truth. That is the story most people tell it's even on the Wikipedia, but like some of the sources are Have said, you know, it's it's unlikely he might not have even

Really existed or if he did which I kind of believe he did exist It might have been embellished as part to make it more like romantic like oh she she was locked away Because it's hard to believe that after that long of being Tortured that you wouldn't just say yeah sure I'll break up with him But the story is that she refused for 25 years to like because she loved him Yeah, she would never deny there And I sort of feel like that and search over the same thing like I sort of feel like that takes away a little bit from the actual horrific story, which is abuse and neglect, which is not so romanticized.

You know? So anyway, that's just my thought on it. But that was a pretty quickly the story that got picked up, which it may it may well be true. I'm really not sure. Some people claim. Well, maybe. Go ahead. Sorry. Oh, no. I would really not sure. Some people claim. Well, maybe. Go ahead, sorry. Oh no.

I would love to hear what your thoughts are. I was gonna say, I feel like not only does it feel like a romantic story for the time, but it could have also been like a noble story of like how proudly Catholic these people were. Yeah, true. Like it almost put them in a good light of like, you must.

And Catholics love like. Rely on your family or stick with your family. I feel like yeah it feels like it's turned into this kind of romantic like anything for love when like that doesn't quite. Yeah it's like okay but we're like not paying attention to the fact that something evil happened to you. Yeah yeah or it's like it doesn't have to be such a dramatic reason for the evil like sometimes people just do evil things because they're bad people and they are harming,

they like to harm people. I don't know. Yeah. So it's hard to say. I mean, it could very well be true. I really don't know. And most of the, most of the stories are told, and that's how I always knew it until this research, that she was in love with this guy and her mom disapproved.

But so of course there are all sorts of versions, that maybe Blanche was pregnant out of wedlock and they sent the child away, but there's really nothing to prove that. Marcel, however, her brother, who's only a year older than her, had a totally different story. According to him, when Blanche was young,

she began to experience what she believed were religious visions. And as she grew up, she began to experience what may have been symptoms of psychosis. And although we don't know now, I believe a couple of the sources mentioned that she was diagnosed with schizophrenia later in life. So it's hard to say if that was something, you know, maybe triggered or exaggerated by this like horrific abuse, or if this was already part of her life and that's why that's what led to the abuse.

Could she have been again, everything we say in this episode does not justify anything bad that happened here. Let's just try to understand it. Were they, were they, like what, maybe there was there, do we find out if there was actually like a mental illness going on and like the family was too ashamed to send her to a facility? Well that's what I mean is like she was diagnosed with schizophrenia but I don't know if that was something

that, there's no way to know, like, did she have that before she was locked away and that's why she was locked away? Or is like, that's something that emerged while she was imprisoned for 25 years, you know, like schizophrenia, is that something like as a result of this or is that why they put her up there? I also don't know if I could even trust that she had any mental conditions. Like if, for all we know that like the, her parents paid a professional to say

something so that way they would look better? I don't know, like I don't, or do we know for sure she had an illness? No, we don't know anything. I mean, we know afterward, yes, she was diagnosed with all these things, but like, again, it's hard to say, is that a result of all this trauma or is that, is that like preexisting and that's,

it's like chicken or the egg, like Like is this what led them to behave this way or is it the opposite? Yeah, it's hard to know, but either way, people think it's probably some symptoms of psychosis if what her brother Marcel is telling is the truth. Cause he could be lying and saying, oh yeah, like she was totally crazy. So we locked her up there.

So it's hard to say if he's even telling the truth, but if he is, what he describes sounds more like psychosis or early onset schizophrenia. I would imagine, I mean, something had to happen to her mentally. I mean, think of the people in prison who go into solitary for a week and start feeling

like they're losing themselves. I guess what I'm saying is afterwards she was definitely mentally ill, like she had severe. We just don't know if there was something before. Yeah. So I just don't know, like even though she was given a schizophrenia diagnosis after all this, I don't know if that's like something that started when she was 20 and that's why they put her up there or if that was a result of being locked away for in solitary for 25. You know, it's like I, nobody really knows how truthful this storyline is, you know, but it makes sense to me.

Like, okay, they, they, she was kind of not acting like a proper woman should act and had some sort of fits or hallucinations and her family was like, well, that's, that can't be, that can't be. So we're going to lock her away in a closet, essentially. Yeah, apparently the room was about the size of a smaller than like an office cubicle. That's how tiny it was. Like she was basically just enough room to lay down. Oh, it's really, really horrific. And so Marcel claimed, Oh no, it's not about a love story.

But when Blanche was young, she began to experience what she believed were religious visions and what we now think may have been psychosis. And the doctors who treated Blanche told her family that she was quote, mad, and she always would be. Essentially like there's no treating this is what they were told. Like this is just how she is, and she's quote unquote mad and it's uncurable, sorry.

And that- It's so wild that they couldn't just like make sure she like took a bath and like had some food. No, that's the thing It's like it's exactly it ends up like not at all being about this It just ends up being like it doesn't even matter why they did it, right? It's like it just It's like if you felt like for her safety she needed to be locked up somewhere. Okay, but yeah, no Social no food hold weight at all to me. I totally agree. Like a bed that's not rotting and full of rats?

You can't show me that and say, oh no, this is for her own good. What are you talking about? And so the doctors said this is uncurable, and so Charles, her father, before he passed, decided the only thing they could do was lock Blanche in a room to hide her away. And according to Marcel, she sometimes stood naked in front of the window, but also like

they didn't give her clothes. So yeah, no shit. She's naked. And so they started padlocking the window closed. And Marcel testified that he really wanted to move Blanche to what he referred to as a nursing home. I mean, imagine like a psychiatric hospital in the late 1800s, right? But even so, like they were so wealthy, they could have provided her with a staff, they

could have sent her to like a fancy place. They could have literally given her her own home, like her own facility or something with her own. And just like paid for nurses, yeah. Yeah, they could have paid for a current facility to clear out so they could have the entire thing if they wanted. Nope, but Charles did not want his child

to be mentally ill or different. It feels like this is more like an insecurity about social status. Yeah, totally. That something's wrong with them or something. That's at least the story Marcel is pitching. Like, listen, I didn't want it to be this way, but my parents did. And it's like, okay, but you're an adult.

And anyway, so yeah, it doesn't really make sense. Like, oh, well, this was for her own good because like they had the money to really provide for her, but Charles refused because like he didn't want this reflected on poorly on his family. And so when he died, Madam Louise insisted on upholding her dead husband's wishes. And Marcel when he died, Madame Louise insisted on upholding her dead husband's wishes.

And Marcel claimed that no matter how much he argued with his mother, she refused to consider moving Blanche elsewhere. And investigators pretty much put together that she was ashamed that Blanche was ill and she would rather just hide her daughter away like to near death, than reveal, rather than reveal her family secret.

Was there, like, did her siblings, like, did her brother, like, did they at least talk through the door to each other? And did he, like, could she say, can you go tell mom I need more fucking bread, please? I don't think so, no. I think she was just put away every now and then. So I made a lot of jokes about this fucking metal, but now I'm like, why wasn't the maid

at least knocking on the door being like, are you okay? Because she's discreet. She got a medal for 40 years of not spreading a fucking single gossip. Yeah, I mean, even still, I'm surprised nobody in the house at least knocked on the door every now and then to be like, are you alive?

I mean, they might have I don't know. I just I don't know who was who was bringing her food When she was a servant or maid would just toss it in is what I guess but I don't know Wild she was barely she was Quote-unquote sane when she was found but she was like nonverbal for a long time You know, like if you haven't spoken to anybody in 25 years, presumably, yeah, you're gonna be like, shell shocked and probably not verbal for a while. But yeah, so although Marcel claimed he had argued

on her behalf, he was also a grownup and should have fucking interceded and done something instead of like helping his mom cover up this horrible, horrible thing like for just torturing his little sister. It really is disturbing to me. He also testified that he visited Blanche frequently and read to her and he said, oh the smell that never bothered me and because my eyesight is impaired I couldn't really see how bad it was in there so I just didn't know. It's like, yeah, right. And investigators were like, Oh, your eyesight is bad. That's weird. Cause I know you love to paint watercolor. And he goes, yeah, well

seeing landscapes and trees is a totally different thing. Yeah. You used to know enough about eyes. Sorry. You don't know about art or eyes, so you wouldn't understand. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure someone of high society at the time would have had a problem with the smell. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the fact that the investigator had to leave and come back because he was so shaken by the smell alone, but whatever. He said that his family never did anything

against Blanche's will or her wishes. She wanted all of that and He just said oh we did all this because it's what she wanted and he wanted to avoid upsetting her and causing a scene She didn't want a window. So they boarded it up for her I'm like, this is crazy talk which like if your whole thing is that maybe she's Mentally ill then like why are you listening to her demands that she- Exactly. Like she, if she is so sick that you think she is not of sound mind and endangered herself,

then why are you listening to her? And why are you like, great idea, we won't feed you or open a window. I don't know what like the rules were back in the day in a home of high society, but like when I was a little kid, you better believe I was snooping through everyone's fucking house. How did a little kid not walk by the room and go,

oh my God, that smells pretty bad. What's going on in there? Or like hear a sound or something. I think it was probably just because it was hidden away on the third floor. They could barely see this door. I'm telling you like the size of a small walk-in closet. So it's like just tucked away

and nobody would be up there. I'm assuming that would be quote unquote servants quarters, right? Like the third story. And the servant clearly knew about it. So they probably just were like, well, that's Blanche's room. I don't know.

It's horrifying. So he basically claimed, well, she wanted it to be this way. And we didn't wanna, I mean, going off what you said, like his explanation for why they just did what she said is because he's like, well, we didn't want her to like freak out and cause a scene. And if we did something against her wishes,

she would start having fits. And he's like, so we just wanted to keep the peace. So we did what she wanted. I don't believe it. However, like I kind of alluded to when you asked earlier, there were testimonies from people over the years who had heard Blanche during those 25 years in the attic bedroom.

Some witnesses had heard someone screaming for freedom. People on the street sometimes heard her screaming from her bedroom, and one witness heard her cry, what have I done to be locked up? I don't deserve this horrible torture. God must not exist then to let his creatures suffer in this way and no one to come to my rescue. And it's just really horrific because people would get snippets and like wonder and then nothing would be done and nobody would find anything and you didn't know where it was coming from but people definitely heard her screaming over the years. She also wrote on her walls one passage that was still

legible during the investigation read, one must live and die in prison all one's life. And Marcel said, oh, he said the inscriptions on the walls were so unimportant that he never read them. Well, how could he? He doesn't have good eyes. Good point. He said, all these screams had no meaning. In my sister's mouth, these words have no value.

She only said them at moments of crisis and madness. She never called for help or demanded her freedom in front of me. Well, she was so busy being locked up, she never said it in front of me. Exactly. She never said she didn't want to be locked away forever. Like, what?

I mean, I was downstairs holding my ears and closing my eyes so I would never hear it if she did say something, but she didn't say it. But that's irrelevant. And also, like, I... It'd be one thing if he was, like, a toddler when this happened and, like, he grew up hearing, like, she's evil or something. But if he was like a toddler when this happened and like grew up hearing like she's evil or something

But if he's a year older than her and she got locked away like 25. He was almost 30 he was like already I'm sure married or getting married and having his like eldest son dream child ways, you know and Just let it let it go. Let it be that way. It's horrific. So that's what he kept pushing. Like the story that Blanche was this incoherent mad woman who never truly desired freedom, never desired clean sheets, clean hair, hygiene, food.

He said that she even refused to be exposed to sunlight, which is why for her preference, they took the window out, covered the window up. And when Blanche was bathed at the hospital, the staff had a different view because they shaved her hair, they put her in new clothes, they cleaned her, bathed her, they sat her by a window where the sun was streaming in and she just stared out the window and whispered how lovely it is. It's like, you can't fucking tell me that you did this because she wanted it. Like, that's the wildest thing to me.

And when questioned about this, Marcel, her brother said, oh, she must have been temporarily shocked out of her madness, that's all. But don't worry, she'll get back to it. It's like so blatantly cruel and abusive. But Madame Louise said that Blanche was allowed to go anywhere in the house. She had free rein, but she preferred to stay

not only in her room, but in her bed for 25 years. And she just had never had a desire to leave. So that's why they left her there. And if that is the case, then she's clearly sick and you need to get her help. She's your child. She's another human. Okay, anyway.

When the investigators told Madame Louise that her maids claimed they sometimes asked permission to bathe Blanche and clean her bedding, and Louise said, no, you are not allowed to clean her bedding or wash her hair. The maids were trying to help in some instances, and she said no. When the investigator said, well, that's what the maids told us, that you didn't let them clean her, she said to investigators that her maids were liars and hussies.

Oh my. Also, yeah, this is such an obvious thing to say now, but just a reminder that like, this absolutely takes away any credibility there was of like all the generous things that she was doing for society. It's like you clearly don't care about other people. There's no empathy there.

I mean. You're just doing it for status. It's just rude. That's kind of why I was trying to say like, she was like just the top tier, like social hierarchy, not necessarily like a queen bee type, you know, like her fall from grace was gonna be painful. The way that this probably hit every fucking newspaper.

Oh my God. Imagine coming to work the next morning being like, did you guys hear? And they say, I hear what? And you're like, I'm about to work the next morning being like, did you guys hear? And they say, hear what? And you're like, I'm about to reveal the wildest. Everyone's shoving their copy of the paper into their face. I mean, Jesus Christ. This would be such a, especially in a small town,

like what a, I mean, it's not that small of a town, but you know, in small circles, like these high society circles. Wow. Okay. So Madame Louise and Marcel continually insisted that it was Blanche's instincts to prefer the dark, to use foul language, to make messes and to avoid eating. But the nurses and nuns who cared for her in the hospital found her quite the opposite. They described her as gentle, delicate. They even described her using words like childlike. And they said

she just truly enjoyed her meals and she started rapidly gaining weight when she arrived at the hospital, which is so, so fucking sad. Like 25 years she hasn't had. She was so possible the whole time. Yes. Yeah. She hasn't had just plain nutrition in 25 years. They eventually learned that they could leave Blanche alone while the staff cared for other patients. And she, even though hasn't had just plain nutrition in 25 years. They eventually learned that they could leave Blanche alone while the staff cared for other patients and she, even though her family kept warning everybody that she was gonna freak out and cause this huge scene and a mess, she never did. And when she first arrived at

the hospital, she did once relieve herself in her bed and clothes, but then when they taught her how to use a chamber pot again, she was thrilled and said, thank goodness that I have access to this now because she just was living her own filth. She was also probably fucking petrified of saying anything wrong and immediately having to go away again. So like on top of her just being a good person, like the last thing she's going to do right now is cause a stir

like I mean and also after like relieving herself on herself as a You know as someone who has only been able to do that for the last 20 years She probably like lost muscle memory to even hold it at that point Yes exactly she had forgotten how to use a chamber pot like they really had to like to say hey here This is here for you now but I will also kind of do devil's advocate of what you said.

Like if you were this traumatized and like, if you did have a mental illness, like you might show up and make a huge scene and tear shit up, you know, like who knows? Like. That's a good point. Yeah, like it's so over simulated. I don't know how I would even deal with this

without this alleged or potential schizophrenia situation. Like even at the most quote unquote sane person at the time, I imagine you could predict how they'd react. I also though, the way I already know how it would go if I were in a situation that was where I was being told that like I was never docile enough or whatever and that I was locked away and I mean I can't obviously fathom that but I imagine I would just be crying non-stop out of either relief that it's maybe over or fear that what if it's not but then also joy that I'm seeing this but then again then I would be diagnosed with hysteria or something because I would just be crying. It's like all bets are off. How does anyone know what to do in this situation? People caring for her, her herself, how does anyone know what to do in this situation?

I feel like they're just, it's all just so shocking. And she probably feels like she's in an alternate dimension all of a sudden. She wrote on her wall, one must live and die in prison one's whole life. So she clearly has resigned herself to this. I also wonder socially, like, because I like to think, oh my God, somebody,

it just went through this, obviously I'm going to help them. But if you're, what if you're, this is such a micro problem. But imagine if you're someone who's trying to help her, but you find out that like your your own career is in jeopardy or something like she could pull the pull the purse strings in some way and hurt you for for helping save her or take care of her. You know, I feel like that would be one of my first thoughts if I was like a nurse taking care of her. I'd be like oh what if because we're helping her you know now the family is going to know they've been found out,

they're going to stop funding the hospital or something. I feel like the nuns and stuff are like, I don't care. I mean, I don't know. Oh, right, nuns. Especially because both of them are in jail now. Like, it doesn't mean they can't have an effect, but I don't think their power is that impressive anymore to people.

I don't think the hospital is going to take their money anymore once you know, once they've been... True. I just, I would be so paranoid about like the, like the family of the town knowing that like what's gonna happen if they find out that we want to get... But yeah, you're totally right, they're already in prison, so whatever. Yeah, I think they're not even a blip on the radar at this point.

So yeah, they're like taking care of her and saying, she's just childlike, she's delicate, she loves to eat, she's gaining weight rapidly. She's just so happy to be free and be calm and have sunshine and have fresh clothes. And so they did not experience her the way that Marcel kept like warning, you know, warning the nurses and the nuns that she would act. And although her mother and brother kept saying, well, Blanche would be naked and standing in the window that way, hospital staff observed that she was actually extremely modest, probably from this childhood religious ambition she had. And she even wore often extra clothing to cover herself up. She even put a scarf over her head, like around her head. And you know, it makes me think like,

it seemed like she didn't have clothing in her room. So it's like, now of course she wants to be covered up. Like she hasn't been for 25 years. Oh my God. And also like not even warm because the blanket she was using was just riddled with disease and rotting away. I mean, she's never.

Like the comforts are gone. In half her life, she's never known a single comfort. It's like comfort, yeah. Yeah. And so it seemed clear to her care team that whatever Blanche's family was saying that Blanche had done to herself was actually something her family had done to her.

And she likely had stopped using the bathroom because she had no access to a toilet. She stopped bathing because she wasn't allowed to. She stopped eating because she wasn't given food. And so in the hospital, suddenly her condition improved significantly and the staff really liked her. And Marcel's and Madame Louise's defenders, including a psychiatrist, insisted that Blanche was insane and feeble-minded, but the nurses and nuns were like, no, sorry, she's not. It also seemed to be true that Blanche did sometimes exhibit erratic behavior in which

she would shout, scream, break things, but again, that's not surprising to me that somebody who'd gone through that would have erratic behavior. But a priest, along with investigators on the case, also made the excellent point that who cares if she did anything erratic? That does not mean she deserved 25 years. Even if they're right and she had been quote unquote unwell and insane or whatever words they used, that doesn't mean she should have been locked away like that for 25 years. So the argument is moot.

Yeah, exactly. Like it's still, in fact, some could argue it's even worse if she needs your help so badly because she's ill and you're putting her through this. Right, now she's like deteriorating even faster without any support. I mean, that's, so anyway, it's just like at the end of the day, it doesn't even matter why they were claiming that they did this.

It's just bad no matter what. But yeah, like I said, the same priest said Blanche's vulnerability made the neglect that much more egregious and that especially because they had this responsibility, they had the funds, they had the means to care for her, and they just didn't, you know. They also believe that because she was so mild-mannered in the hospital, all this bad behavior her family reported, if it was true at all, was probably just caused by the stress of living like that. So any like fits she might've had, it's like,

well yeah, you locked her in a closet. So even if that's true, which it might just be Marcel making shit up, then of course she reacted negatively when you locked her away for decades. But in any case, Blanche was transported to a hospital in May and she was photographed while there. And the photographs are still online. They're very disturbing.

She's deeply emaciated. She's 55 pounds. Her hair is, you know, falling out, falling apart. It's very, very disturbing. So I just want to warn everyone if you're going to look it up. When this picture hit newspapers, people flipped. I'm sure. There were angry crowds gathering outside of Madame Louise's jail cell, shouting, demanding justice for Blanche. And Madame Louise had actually been ill for some time, and the stress... Was she?

I know. And the stress was getting to her. Okay, so will you be a little bit empathetic maybe for a minute? I'm just saying, for her to be sick at the beginning of the story, you know... She's so full of it. Yeah. She asked to be released from jail awaiting her trial because the stress was she couldn't take the stress. And they did not release her from jail.

And she ended up actually having a heart attack two weeks after her arrest because of the uproar. The stress of being found out. She knew she was. Exactly. Like you were caught. And so you had a heart attack because of the stress of being found out. She knew she was exactly like you were caught and so you had a heart attack because of the stress of that but The nerve of her how long was she actually imprisoned for days? I think 13 to 14 and she was and she was just so

Inconvenienced and uncomfortable in 13 days, but the 25 years of what she did to her point Well, wait till you hear what happened. I'm so oh, okay. So now she's passed away, the mother, and Marcel is now the only one left to face trial, right? So that began October 7th, 1901, and the court heard testimonies from staff in the Monnier household, and it seemed that caring for Blanche had actually started off pretty well.

She was attended to by an experienced nurse named Marie Faisy and testimonies about Marie and her professionalism as a nurse were varied. Some said that she was a doting and skilled nurse who cared for Blanche so well that sometimes Blanche was well enough to get downstairs, see her family, play the piano. But according to these same testimonies, it was only when this nurse died in 1896 and Madame Louise refused to hire another skilled nurse with proper training that suddenly Blanche deteriorated and she kind of fell into this horribly desperate, vulnerable

situation. It was said that Madame Louise repeatedly hired young maids without medical and psychiatric training who were frightened by Blanche, especially when Blanche became agitated and broke things or tore her clothes off. And none of the maids ever stayed for very long, according to these testimonies. And Madame Louise herself did not seem interested in any care for Blanche, didn't seem interested in hiring anybody or caring for her herself, So just let her deteriorate up there. But others said that this nurse Marie Faisy actually drank in excess

and did not care for Blanche well, as everyone was claiming. And that this whole time Blanche was in this desperate state with no care. So it's like, it varies like how badly she was mistreated in the 25 years, but either way, pretty darn. And Blanche had last been seen by a doctor in 1896, which was actually five years before her discovery. And there was like, no, nothing came out of that or nothing came from that. And so the family had basically just abandoned any effort to get her well or take care of her at all. Sometimes her niece, Marie Delores, would come over

and ask after Blanche and how she was doing, and according to Marie Delores, her grandmother would always just say, oh, she's fine. It's not even like you can actually lock someone up and forget about them because every single person is going to ask you how your daughter is. So where's your daughter? That's mysteriously in Canada, maybe.

Yeah. For 25 years. For 25 years. Someone had to be like- And the fact that she's claiming, oh, she's fine. It's like, okay, well, what else is up with her? I haven't seen her in decades. Any news?

I mean, I understand that it was a different time and that like she could have really Just and also it's a totally different like wealth class We're like maybe you really do just go away and never come home But if I had a friend who had a kid Like if I if the last time I saw Leona was 25 years ago, I'd be like, where is she? I said, oh she's just somewhere. Can I have a picture of her? Yeah, can I see a picture? Like, is she, like, where?

You must know something about her. Yeah, and that's why, like, the servant staff being so discreet, right, is like such an icky thing now. It's like they were forced to keep this secret. Yeah. And if I even if I were a friend of the family, I would almost be offended that if the next time I see Leona, she's 29 or whatever, I'd be like, what's going on?

Why don't you want me to know what your kid looks like? Yeah, like there's something happening either with me, with you, with your child. There's something going on. Yeah, I would take it as a personal attack eventually. I'd be like, why don't you want to share your family with me? Yep. Nope. People did not, did not pick up on it. So she was fine. That's what she told people and all that was truly clear in the end, which is still a lot of, there are a

lot of unanswered questions is that when Blanche was rescued in 1901, she was in truly, truly deplorable conditions that no person, whether they quote unquote want it that way or not, should be subjected to this. Sorry, there's no excuse. And nothing she might've done, any psychiatric diagnosis could've justified this. Like you were saying, a prison cell is a safer, cleaner, happier place to be than this family-made prison that they created,

and just the amount of filth and neglect. Imagine she probably got sick all the time, like with infections, colds. Imagine how miserable that life would be. It's terrible. So whether it's a week or 25 years, it's just unacceptable on every count. And Marcel, the brother, right, he's the only one remaining to be put on trial. And after his trial, he's sentenced to 15 months in prison, but he's a lawyer and very rich. And his lawyers immediately appeal,

arguing that Blanche was legally their mother's responsibility, not Marcel's. And Marcel had no obligation to intervene with his sister's situation. And the appeal was granted, and Marcel faced no consequences. Of course. And the public was outraged, but there's not much they can do. So Blanche spent the final 12 years of her life in a hospital where she was reportedly

well cared for and content. She told the staff she did not want to see her brother ever again and she did not want to return to her home ever again. Fair enough. And she and Marcel both died in 1913. Relatively young, I would say. They were probably in their 60s. Today though, the truth of Blanche's story is rarely told.

I think it's a lot of it is and we don't even know what's the real truth in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, the only thing we know is how horrible this mistreatment was. But if you Google Blanche Monnier, there are often before and after pictures, like this picture of this really beautiful, like put together Victorian woman with this like very graceful hair. Those are not Blanche Monnier, even though every article claims that's like before, but that's not a picture of her.

It's like some other. Are there any pictures of her before? It seems like she was never loved even before she got put away. I don't think there are any, like not online at least, or not easily accessible was there was there even a

like a moment that got announced of like the day she got locked in and never came out because I have a feeling this room was Like a very long timeout place that she used to go and eventually her mom was like actually I'm just not no there was actually that she used to go and eventually her mom was like, actually I'm just not gonna let you know about this time. No, there was actually, there was an article I read where that mentioned that she went out for some dinner, some social dinner, she ended up getting a fever, like she got sick and got a fever and that social outing was the last time she was ever seen outside the house.

So whether or not, it's unclear whether or not she was just inside and for the first few years, maybe she could roam the house freely, but she did not leave the house after that event. Yeah. So anyway, this beautiful young woman, the before picture that you might be picturing, like that I'm picturing,

cause I've seen it so many times, is not actually Blanche Monnier. There's two that go around, neither of them are her. So a lot of this is sensationalized about her saying she would, oh, and the other part about the guy, remember the lawyer that she had fallen in love with who didn't have much money and her mother didn't approve. So that story goes that she wouldn't break off

the relationship or the engagement. And her mother said, I won't let you out until you do. And then the man actually ended up dying. If it is the same man, ended up dying 15, 10 to 15 years. I forget which, which direction before she was released, before she was discovered. And so even when he was dead, her mom was like, oh, will you break off the engagement? No. Even knowing that he was discovered. And so even when he was dead, her mom was like, oh, will you break off the engagement?

No, even knowing that he was dead. So it's like, at that point, you just don't want this to get out. It's too late. Well, cause at that point she's betrayed the family, right? So. Well, and now she gets out, what do you do to explain this?

Yeah. I do wonder if the guy was real because I feel like if she magically went missing he would cause a fuss so the story is that is that like they were kind of starting to get to know each other they really liked each other and Then the mom was just like oh she she went away You know because I mean it was very obvious the mom did not approve of him So it's like pretty easy to believe that like her mom just said, nope, not allowed. And she's like, okay, so I was shipped off to America for a few years or. And then he passed away during the time of her imprisonment.

So we don't really know if that's the true story, but that's usually the one that's told. But as Saoirse made such a good point of here, the true story is far less romantic, but more common. such a good point of here, the true story is far less romantic but more common. You know, a disabled woman in this, especially in this, that time and even today, occasionally, was neglected and abused because of family shame and pride and so that's disturbing in and of itself. And that is the story of Blanche Monnier. Wow. Terrible. Definitely, I mean, awful, but also very captivating in that, like, there's not a boring part to that story. I mean, talk about, like, what's the phrase I was gonna say? It starts very high society

gossip girl and Then it ends with like just torment and abuse. It's yeah everything terrible And like I see why people kind of make it like more glamorous like she did this for love and it's like no She didn't do it at all. Nothing. She did one of those revisionist history Exactly, and it's like it's it's spinning it and I box about it he's did this a long time ago and I re listened to it recently and I I Like the way she put it of like this is they're talking about her so

Actively like as if she's the car like she did something that triggered the situation when in reality She didn't do anything. Her parents, her mother and father and brother, her whole family abused and neglected her. And it doesn't matter what she did or said, or that's irrelevant. It's like when a woman's sexually assaulted and you're like, well, she was wearing a really short skirt.

It's like, that's not the point. It shouldn't matter. She should be able to walk down the street naked for all I care. It doesn't give you the right to behave this way or treat somebody this way. So yeah, I kind of Like that. We got a little more detail on the real history of it even though it's like less Sensational and just sadder, but that's how I think a lot of these stories are so

Wow, well good telling it. Thank you. This was a quite an episode. are. Wow, well, good telling it. Well, thank you. This was quite an episode. Wow, that's a long one. Wow, a long one. Okay, we won't keep people any longer than that unless you are part of Patreon and you like to listen to us talk even longer than this

and you can head over to our after hours after dark. What is it now? After dark. After dark. And you can hear us ramble about something that is unscripted, now that this is fully scripted. But the other part on Behind Patreon has no rules. No rules, so we usually talk about something, true crime or paranormal, usually. I would say sometimes we go off the rails

and do a personality quiz. Sometimes we just go on Zillow and look at houses together. Sometimes we read all the places and houses you could find buried treasure. So we have a lot of fun over there. All right, well head over there if you want to hear more of this and otherwise we'll see you next week.

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