And That's Why We Drink - E387 Adulting Cheat Codes and Dramatic Readings of the Cha Cha Slide

Episode Date: July 7, 2024

It's episode 387 and should we pause?? We might be having some technical difficulties but that also might be next week's episode, we're not sure because we're releasing episodes out of order! This week Em covers something in Christine's neck of the woods in the story of the Old Licking County Jail. Then Christine gives us a sneak peek into the new book with the stories of the murders (and a bonus ghost) from the Claypool Hotel in Indianapolis. And how the fuck does anyone get a turtle? Not like judgement wise, just logistically, we don't even know how to call the city... and that's why we drink!Don't miss our brand new tour, with a brand new ghost hunt, coming to a city near you this fall! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

Well, I've done a silly thing and I have decided we're doing, I flipped the episodes. So the episode that y'all will hear this week was recorded after the one that you'll hear next week. Next week. Because my brain, seriously, last night, Em, was short-circuiting because I was trying to figure out how to do this. And it's a very simple thing. And I just made it very complicated.

Oh, my. Hang on. It says I might not be recording through my mic. See, we're all struggling today. Hang on. It's a rough day, friends. Okay, should we pause? No, did that fix it? Yes!

Oh, that's so much better. But wait, is mine right? Yours is fine. Yours is fine. Oh man, yeah, we're using a new recording software, which is kind of funny because in the next episode, you'll hear us complain about the struggles we're having with that. It's fine, we'll figure it out, okay?

So okay, just to give you like a calendar, a timeline of how this goes, is that Christine and I recorded this episode and next week's episode in the same 24 hour period. Yes, good point. And this one we recorded after the last one. So what you're going to hear next week is us being incredibly frazzled. I mean, I sound like half my rocker next week, but I promise now that you're hearing me,

I survived it. And the one you're hearing now is us still frazzled, but I think half figured out. Yeah, I almost feel like yesterday's vent session, which again, y'all will not hear till next week, helped me kind of process it and come back to reality. So, and Eva's probably like, what are you talking about? Because she was not on the recording yesterday and missed my like mental breakdown sort of. Everyone's like, probably gonna expect like the apocalypse

in next week's episode. It's really not that crazy. No, it's us just being a usual amount of spiraling. Yeah, it's also me just like, no shame, begging everyone to buy tickets for the live show for both Beach Too Sandy and And That's Why We Drink in an effort to make me feel better. And I do recognize that sounds really shitty

and I didn't mean it to be shitty. I just am like, please hang out. You'll hear it next week. Yeah, just come hang out with me, please please somebody Anyway, empty like my shirt You know, I love your shirt. That's one of my I know a target purchase when I see it Also, this is this is my cover photo for six years on Facebook It's trogg and Toad with the words, we must stop eating cried Toad as he ate another. And when I was in college I was

like this really represents me and my whole deal. So I made it my cover photo for probably half a decade. And your personality probably. Oh it was already my personality. I just suddenly had a label to it. And so I saw this at Target with Leona and I just gasped. As someone who has seen you perform that exact bit with wine. I must stop. And everyone's like, yes, you must. And I'm like, mm-hmm, anyway.

No, I love that shirt. I actually, the only reason I know it's a Target purchase is because when I was at Target, I went, oh, and then I love that shirt. Actually, the only reason I know it's a Target purchase is because when I was last at Target, I went, oh, and then I almost bought it. So we almost twizzed. Every millennial probably did the same sound when they passed that shirt. And every Gen Z was like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Em, hi, I'm so glad to see you again. We never record day after day, so this is a delightful experience. How are you doing? Oh, by the way, folks, in the next episode, you'll hear Em say, this is probably my last episode recorded in the troll hole, and now it's the next day

and we're doing it again. Well, it worked out, because next week now will be the last time people see me at the troll hole. That is honestly actually very weird how that worked. Yes, inadvertently. You're so right. So I think I'm about to hit a stage where you are currently at, where you're kind of spiraling. And not just because of work, but because it will be... This is our kind of

like, you'll hear about it all next week, folks. But we're kind of in a crunch mode for the podcast right now with like getting ready for the show coming up and all stuff like that. So that stresses me out. But the thing that I'm most stressed about, which I've already kind of talked about more or less is just the house. I'm just, man, I, everyone tells you that it's stressful and I believed it. It's not like I thought I was immune to that. But I went in thinking, OK, I'm prepared for it to be frustrating. And now I'm at the frustrating part,

and I'm like, OK, I knew this was going to happen, but I'm still mad about it. Exactly. I think everyone can relate to that, because it's like, oh, they tell you to have a kid. Or having a kid is very overwhelming. And you're like, yeah, I know. I know it's relate to that because it's like oh they tell you to have a kid or like having a kid is very Overwhelming and you're like, yeah, I know like I'm I know it's gonna be overwhelming But you can't really understand it until you're in it, right? Mm-hmm, because it's just like how would you even comprehend?

well It's more I don't know what people meant by it's frustrating I don't know if like everyone's talking about a different. Oh, I'm sure there's many. Yeah. But the one for me is just, I went to lunch with somebody yesterday and they were like, oh, are you having fun getting the house together? Which this is clearly not a homeowner who said that. Yeah, I was going to say. And well, this is also someone who's not met you very long because you're like, I hate when people ask me that question.

Yeah. And oh yeah, they're learning very quickly that that's... You gave them the Leona like scowl and they were like, cool, I'll reframe the question. Got it? I've upset you. I think they learned very quickly that I'm going to give them a direct answer and maybe it's not the one they were expecting because I immediately went, no. No, certainly not. Well, the part that's frustrating me currently, it's not even like getting the house or,

I am wildly stressed about having to figure out how to downsize and find spots for everything and all the stuff that goes into buying furniture and the things you're not thinking you'll need. But currently I feel the most pressure about disappointing Allison because we're like in the mode right before we're about to move in and so we're both like kind of selecting

responsibilities for each other. And she's like Miss Type A loves her Excel sheets and her planners and she's gonna get it done in five minutes and it's gonna get it done in five minutes and it's gonna take me like three weeks and I'm already stressed about her being stressed about whether or not I'll get it done in time. And so I'm just kind of mid panic

about making sure that I get all my stuff done and I don't feel competent enough to be relied upon like that but I'm gonna have to figure it out. So that's what's stressing me out. Gut reaction, which is probably not helpful at all, but this is just what sometimes my mom tells me, and it does seem to calm me down, is like, and you've said it to me before too, is it'll get done.

Like whether you're stressed or not, or whether you're like feeling incompetent or whatever, in a few minutes you'll be like, okay, that's over, and you'll be on to the next thing. I know it'll get done. That's exactly how I face just about anything. I mean, that's how we both face any sort of thing for the tour. Well, it'll happen whether we try 100% or 800%.

I just want to do it with as little Or 800%. I just want to do it with as little, like, causing frustration between me and Allison. Which, like, that's, I don't want it to sound like that's something that happens all the time. I just, I don't want to give her anymore. Well, I mean, any big life change puts pressure on a relationship. You're doing a new task together. It's hard.

Yes. I don't want to, I don't want to give her any more reason to be You know as as stressed as she probably is about moving into I don't want her to also have to think about like I don't know I struggle with or I used to Definitely struggle with like weaponized incompetence and not being able to like do things for myself, and I don't want her to feel like I Can't be Public please so that when she hears the episode she's like well. I guess I can't accuse her to feel like I can't be dependable. Is this your public plea so that when she hears the episode she's like, well, I guess I can't accuse you of that.

No, her and I have talked about this. Can you imagine if this is the first time that she's hearing about it? She's like, wow, you apologized to millions of people, just not to me. Got it. No, no, no. We haven't had any issues with that in a long time.

It's just in moments like this where there's a new task I'm responsible for, I just, I remember that I've just got to get it together and just figure it out. And it just, it just stresses me out on top of the other stuff I'm already stressed out about. So, I don't know, I just want her to have an enjoyable first move into her first house, and I don't want my stuff to get in the way of her

getting to celebrate a milestone. I don't think you'll get in the the way of her getting to celebrate a milestone. I don't think you'll get in the way. I feel like it's a big deal for each person individually, on top of being a big deal as a couple. I feel like each person's gonna have that experience separately too. She'll love it, she'll have a good time. She might, I hope, we'll see.

It's kind of just like when I was telling you last time where there's just all these things that no one ever fucking taught you and maybe they did back in the day and now it's just like scrapped from education or something. But nobody knows, like nobody knows. That's the thing that we learned. Did people write to you and be like, yeah, I don't know how to call the city.

Nobody knows how to call the fucking city. My mom was like, what does that even mean? And I'm like, well, I don't know how to call the city. Nobody knows how to call the fucking city. But my mom was like, what does that even mean? And I'm like, well, I don't know. It's multiple tasks like that, that Allison has put in front of me, where I'm like, oh shit, I have to figure out how to call the, and I also, I wanna look like I'm not relying on her to do it,

so it is up to me to figure it out, cause I don't wanna look like I'm, Oh God, wait till you have a kid, and then they're like, oh, where does she go to the dentist? And I'm like, the dentist? She's supposed to go to the dentist? Like, I mean, does she have all of her teeth? Yeah, and they're like, oh, where does she go to the dentist? And I'm like, the dentist? She's supposed to go to the dentist? Like, I mean, I'm just- Does she have all of her teeth?

Yeah. Oh, okay. And they're like, well, you're supposed to go to the dentist before you have your teeth. I'm like, fuck, like, I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy. There's like everything. They're like, oh, has she done this yet?

Has she joined this group yet? Has she learned how to do this yet? I'm like, ah! It really, it's, I'm not trying to say, oh, there's, well, you'll probably face, well, it probably, it never ends. I think, and I only say this because I feel like every grownup, like I know it's very isolating

the position you're in right now, and I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I feel like everyone listening is like, oh, been there, like whether it's like going to college for the first time and living on your own or moving in with someone, or buying a house, or having a child, or getting a dog, or a turtle. I don't know.

I feel like there's so many things that we're all just kinda like, how the fuck does anyone do this? And everyone is thinking that. Yeah, no, that is helpful. I know that I'm not alone, but also because nobody else I know is going through it currently, it feels very isolated.

Oh my gosh, literally, I texted a friend of mine today and I said, I have a really embarrassing question. I'm actually, I teared up writing it because I was so embarrassed and didn't know what to do, but I said, I have a parenting question, it might be dumb, but I don't have any other friends with kids, but they've been inviting us to trivia nights and I'm like, how do you do that?

And I don't mean it in a bad way. I'm like, do you bring your kids? Like, I don't know what the protocol is. Like, do we bring the kids to the trivia at the outdoor brewery? Do you ask your parents to, do you hire a babysitter? And they have twins. So I'm like, girl, what do you do?

But they're being social and going and doing more fun things than I do. And I'm like, how? How do you do that? And they're both lawyers. And I'm like, oh, sorry, one's a lawyer, one's a doctor, and I'm like, how do you people do this? And so she wrote me this really long thing

and was like, oh, don't worry. Like, she wrote everything out, how they pieced it together, and the struggles they're dealing with, trying to find the right babysitter and everything. So I'm like, okay, all right, that makes me feel better, because I went over there to play Dungeons and Dragons the other day for the first time. And Blaze and I were like, we haven't gone on like, we haven't like gone out in the middle of the day just for fun, the two of us for hours in a long time, just like for no good reason. And I was like, whoa,

this is crazy. And then like they invited us out for for trivia tonight. And I was like, oh, that'll be so fun if Blaze and I could both go. But I'm like, but how do people do it? So I'm trying to do a little recon and asking other parents, how do they do it? How do you do it? Do you bring a kid? Is it like a dog where you can take them

and tie them up to a fence for a while? Do I bring a tablet? Can you leave them unattended in the house for a few hours as long as you get back before they pee? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I just leave her with like a Kong peanut butter ball and like a potty pad? I don't know. So anyway, I'm just trying to figure it out. But I feel like, I like that you address this because I think yesterday when I had that like kind of crazed

meltdown that everyone won't hear till next week. That's what it is. It's all those little things where I'm like, oh great, and someone invited me to do something fun and I've been hoping to make new friends in the area and now I can't go because I don't understand how. And now they're probably never gonna invite me again because they're like, oh, she doesn't wanna go. So I feel like every little thing is like a stressor.

And then Leona's like, I wanna go to a baseball game today and I'm like this is untenable. Girl, sit down. Sit down this is untenable I don't even know what you're talking about you want to go to a baseball game it's a hundred and three degrees out. Yeah trust me girl you don't want to go. So I didn't make that about me I basically am just saying dude I feel you so hard on that. And also, I have a house and it's fucking falling apart and it's so expensive to fix and I feel like I'm also just dropping the ball

left and right, so. You also have, you still have things going on in that house? It's always, I mean, this house is, it's a, I feel like there's always something. There's always like a leak, there's always like a, something that needs to be fixed. There's always something that's squeaky. I keep WD-40 on every floor.

Something's always wrong. But that's just being a homeowner. Ha ha ha ha ha. Welcome to the club. Yeah. I kind of wonder if this will be my last house and not in a way where because I stay here forever. There was some exercise.

I think it was Jeanette McCurdy or something, right? Uh, I'm on homeowner TikTok, TikTok apparently now. And she did an interview where she was like, yeah, everyone told me to get a house. That's like, that's how you climb the ladder. That's like your next big step as an adult. You get a house. But after three years, I sold it and moved back into an apartment because that was just bullshit. And I'm like,

was that Emma, what's her name? Maybe not. There was one influencer where I was like, she was like, what a big mistake I've made. And then like, back straight out. But to be fair, they're buying like gigantic mansions and stuff. That's true.

And like have to hire like crazy, I don't know, amounts of staff. But yeah, I just feel like there's always something. But I mean, it's also, it can be fun. I was just thinking, oh my God, I really hate the color. I painted our downstairs middle extra guest room and I was like, I wanna turn this into a playroom. And so now I'm like, oh, that's fun.

I can just kind of focus on rearranging it into a playroom for Leona. There's fun little projects you find throughout the stressors of owning a house. So you'll get there definitely, I think. Like you're not at the, I know you said you're still kind of at the overwhelmed phase, but someday you'll get to the point where you're like,

oh, I can make a little tea nook here or something. Or you can do the fun stuff later. Well, that's what I've been saying since the beginning, which I feel bad about because I know this is like, again, also a milestone for Alison, that it's her first house, so I don't want to just come in like a fucking Scrooge, but I have been saying, when the first year is over,

I'll be so excited to be here. It's just like, give me a year, which is like so mean to ask her when she's like, should I? It's not mean, I mean, you can't force your feelings. But I have been saying, once all the the the heavy stuff in the beginning is over we'll both be excited to be here currently I'm not because all I see is like just I hate having to I hate learning curves and this is just a lot of

them all at once oh god you're totally right. On top of not even really wanting to move to begin with, which I discuss next week. But it's a lot of things, and I already feel like I'm being forced into the position because I didn't want to really leave the apartment to begin with. These fucking roaches just kicked me out, essentially. So yeah, just a lot of like, ugh, adjustment feelings.

And then when I figure it out, I'll be fine. So. Yeah, well, we are all here for you in whatever way we can be. Thank you, well. Except I'm not gonna call the city because that's Allison's job. Hey, you tell her that because I wanna be where you are.

I don't wanna call the city ever again. She said something the other day, because like we have like, we are still trying to do construction, and they can't do construction until we, like, move a wire. And then it's like, oh, and she was like, oh, well, you just call the city, and then you call the power company, and then you call this.

And I was like... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no That's gonna make me. First of all, what the fuck do you mean, oh you just do this? Do you know what I do? What? I say, mom, I need you to call them because I am very fortunate that my mom is still living, is near me, is like, knows the numbers already. Okay about the phone, has done this before. I call my mom.

I mean, that's literally why I moved back. I'm like, I need my mom and I need my stepdad to like, if there's a wire hanging from the ceiling that my baby's trying to eat, I need him to fix it. Like, I don't know how to fix it myself, and Blaze and I certainly aren't gonna get on the phone. So that's why you need your mom to do it. Or Eva, because she honored, as a birthday gift,

she literally gave me, and she's like, I don't want this to sound condescending. It was so, it's like the best birthday gift I've ever heard of. It's the nicest gift I've ever received that I'm so scared to use it. Like, it's the gift of making phone calls for me if I need help with like a phone call or something.

And I was like, this service is invaluable. Like I don't even wanna waste my- That's the most priceless gift I've ever heard of. I don't wanna waste my little tokens. And so that's what you need to do. You actually said like you got five calls or something like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to delegate them. You just, some are like, I'm not doing that. Or you email them. That's what I do.

Well, the other things that, cause we, anyway, it's, it's, it's, we've gone probably too far over on time, but they, uh, the things that Alison has to do versus the things I have to do, like she already took the ones that feel like heavy lifters and so for me to just have to figure out how to call somebody, I don't know why it's so fucking stressful and I don't know why I can't figure it out and I'm sure there's just like. Well, welcome to my fucking life, dude.

Calling people is not it. Calling phone calls, not it. Nope. I hate it, I hate it. It's the worst. It's the worst thing that you have to do in life. I'm just kidding, also it's not fun What it's it's additionally difficult as someone who like my biggest symptom with my ADHD, which I if someone doesn't have ADHD

I'm sure they feel like this is me just like playing victim But if you get it you get it, but like I already have task paralysis on things I know how to do so like the fact that there's oh, yeah The fact that like now there's a task of learning before even doing the task. But why do you have to do those tasks? That's what I don't understand. Why can't you delegate them to someone else

or find a way to- There's really nobody else to have call the power company. I mean, cause also to be fair, Allison's doing half the work. I wanna do the other half of the work, but I just overwhelmed with the thought of even starting it. I would just email them. If they don't respond, then call them.

That's what I do. I email them a couple of times. If they don't respond, I'm like, fucking fine. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what I did? If anyone out there has phone anxiety, I'm on a long standing mission to figure out how to deal with it. I'm so sweaty.

I don't know if you can tell. My palms are like, my neck is sweaty and I don't know why. Because this is so stressful to me to talk about. I bought the dorkiest thing and I love it. It's a headset like they wear in like a telemarketer thing. Shut up. Oh, that's amazing. No, I'm serious.

And I wear it and I put it on and I sit at my desk like professionally. And I'm like, this is now my job. Like I put it, I frame it as like, not like I'm just picking up professionally, and I'm like, this is now my job. I frame it as not like I'm just picking up the phone and calling someone. It's like, okay, I'm going to sit down and write down my tasks, make it feel as professional. Because I had jobs in offices before as a receptionist, as an administrative assistant. I'm like, so I know I've answered phones before, but I think it was just that I had to because

it was a job. So now I'm like, oh, I just sit there and I'm like, okay, my first task is to call this person. I dial it, I have my little thing, I'm typing. I'm like, wow, it feels like a job instead of like, just an awkward social interaction. That's not weird at all. That's like literally, that's just visualization. Oh, well thank you.

So it folks, those are like 20 bucks on Amazon. They're great. They're usually for truckers, I think a lot of times cause they wear them while driving, but I love it. And it's Bluetooth and it works really well. I just hang it on my desk. So that's a tip if anyone needs one. Yeah, that's a good one.

I love a little cheat code. I'm going to drink this. It's a seltzer, a THC seltzer, because I'm feeling wild today. What? Well, what flavor is it? Oh, it's blackcurrant. Thank you for asking. Why do you drink this week? Because I somehow killed 20 minutes, What flavor is it? Oh, it's blackcurrant. Thank you for asking.

Why do you drink this week? Because I somehow killed 20 minutes, probably talking in circles for people who don't have a house. And the funniest thing is it's probably the same conversation we had next week. Whatever. Why do you drink, girl? Same reason, man.

I'm just like, everything is so hard. Everything is so hard. And we didn't get to do, because I effed up, we didn't get to do the after chat for next week's episode yet. So I think for this one, I'm going to talk about what I, for after this episode, we go on Patreon and we have like a chat afterward. I would love, Em, cause we don't have time now

to tell you on that call on Patreon, what the after dark, what happened when I got on the phone with that psychic medium yesterday to talk about. Oh, yes. okay, great. She and I had a really cool chat and I have so many things to update you, but I'll save that for Patreon because we don't really have time.

Everyone's like, wait, we have to listen to this instead of talking about psychic mediums? But I'll put that on Patreon as an after dark convo, so we'll do that after the episode. But anyway, I drink because I feel you, my friend, and I empathize, and I'm here for you if you need me. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, I don't think you can help me with the things I need because I need someone to call. I mean, honestly, I feel like calling on someone else's, like, what if we traded calls? Like, I wonder if that would be better. Yeah, I wonder, we could try that. Because somebody actually recommended on TikTok,

because you're on homeowner TikTok. I've never been on that, even though I own a home. I'm on fucking phone call panic disorder TikTok, which is a very real thing, actually, believe it or not. And I saw somebody suggest, why don't you call and pretend like you're your own administrative assistant or secretary or partner

or somebody, so it's almost like you remove yourself from the situation. Like I'm calling on behalf of so and so, like Christine Schieffer, I'm setting her appointment, whatever, I've never tried it, but maybe that'll work. So if we switch and I say, hi, I work for M. Schultz, actually I'll say with I don't want them to feel like there's an awkward power dynamic between the two of

us I'll say I work alongside no no I'll say I work with I work for M. Schultz I would love to look into this power wire situation we've got going on I don't know you can try switching calls maybe that'll feel better. I also, yeah, we could try that. I also would think another way to gamify it would be like pretending that you're playing Truth or Dare with somebody and this is just your dare. Like it's like. Wait, we don't have to pretend.

We can dare each other. Okay, I dare you. Uh, I don't know. I just don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do it either. Cause now I'm like, well, don't make me do that. That's fucking mean. That's a really cruel game. That's the meanest's a really cool game mean as dare. I ever heard oh

Yeah, no, I like your idea God, I'm sorry people if you don't relate to this at all. You're probably like god. These people are inseparable. I'm sorry We're gonna tell a story now Okay, um Also, I'm drinking it an elf Oggie because it's oh Going through it an iced or a hot an iced It's July Okay, but like I didn't know if they made ice. That's all

They do they well especially because I got it from my my my place where I'm like Sadly of probably their biggest regular biggest fan I Am their biggest regular. Her biggest fan. I am their biggest fan also. But now when I go in, they just ask me, how many? Oh! Oh! Wow, okay.

And how many did you say today? I usually say two because I always have to get two drinks all the time because one's for gulping, one's for savoring. And so- Yeah, you did explain that to me recently and I thought that was so smart. I was like that.

Oh, thank you. It does make total sense to me. Yeah, I'm a big gulper. And then once I'm done with the first one, after I've gulped it in five seconds, I'm like, man, I wish I really appreciated that. So that's why I got the second one. And I like the gulp, I'm not changing that.

So I have to get the second one. So anyway, I've finished the gulp, now we're on our sipper. Beautiful. Our second mate, I don't know, our co-pilot. Our co-pilot, yeah. I have a story for you and I didn't start it until late. Well, I will tell you that was my fault once again and I didn't start it until late. Well, I will tell you that was my fault once again because I did move our Friday recording to yesterday

and said, surprise, now we need two stories in a row. So I also did not start mine until yesterday. Well, I lucked out because the story that I picked didn't have too much information out there. There were a lot of YouTube videos of people ghosting there. So if this piques your interest, you can head on over to those and see what's going on. But information-wise, it was actually a pretty

cut to the point story. And I was like, that's exactly what I need. So we're talking about something in your neck of the woods. Where is Newark, Ohio? New Jersey? Oh, how though? I never heard of such a thing in my life. Oh, it's beautiful.

Great, where is it? 40 miles east of Columbus. That is a place. So you know her well. Yeah, That is a place. So you know her well. Yeah, that is a place. Wait, you're not talking about Serpent Mound, are you? No. Or the Earthworks?

Oh, okay. Now I'll add it to the list though. Yeah, please do. I don't know, no. Zanesville? No. I don't know where this is. I'm sorry, I have no idea.

This is the old Licking County jail. Well, the Licking River, as you know, because it's near me, that's right by us. I almost moved into a house on the Licking River. And then I realized Gio would walk into the Licking River and probably never come out because he's not the smartest cookie. But it's.

I told you before, I know I've mentioned this, but my mom desperately tried to nudge Alison and I into a house that's literally on the river in Fredericksburg and like constantly floods. Yeah, you can see like the flood lines and they're like, no, just ignore that. It's like, wait a minute. It literally goes down like nine flights and only the top one is actually livable

because eight floors. I mean, the videos you said were fucking amazing, but it would definitely be more just like you bought it to do a haunted house attraction rather than live there. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, so this is the old looking County jail and it opened in 1889 after three other jails failed in the area. Cool. I guess they're I'm assuming they were like conditions

where your standards were changing, but also in 1889, I don't know like how three different jails passed. Yeah, what does fail mean? Did they fall over? Did people just keep escaping? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the first jails were built in like the 1800s, which I know is not true, but I feel like those are the ones that closed

because the standards were not kept up. I can't imagine. Because they didn't have toilets and shit, yeah. Right, so how bad were the other ones for this to be a new one? I don't wanna even know, yeah. Well, this was the fourth jail to be built in the county. It was designed by J.W. Yost, who, if you are an architect fan in the area

Apparently he is responsible for a lot of things going on in, Ohio He built like apparently some of Ohio State University and he He's an architect Apparently the entire building cost $120,000 then to build $120,000 then to build. $120,000 then. Okay, do we know how much? In 1889. Should I do it real quick?

Yeah. 1889 to 2024. I love inflation calculators. Wow! Okay, I guess it's not that crazy, but it feels crazy, $4.1 million. Yoo-hoo, oh my God. That's a big fucking jump.

It makes sense though, because my next point is that, or my next bullet point is that the jail looks very similar to like a castle or a mansion, like a very big estate. And I don't know if that was just of the time to have kind of like this Gothic Romanesque situation. But I know a lot of jails that I talk about that were built like 100 years ago were meant to be imposing as part of your punishment

or they were supposed to look like cathedrals in some way to like point you to Jesus while you're locked away. And I feel like when you talked about the St. Augustine jail too, you said like it was also meant to fit into the town. Like it was meant to look nice. That one's so interesting because that one was just like,

I think it was Henry Flagler who built it. Yes, wow. And he, it was, there was an original jail, but they thought it was too much of an eyesore to the city and a pity the city That would have to look over at a jail So he created it to look beautiful just so he didn't have to go into his own town and be like Criminals I know So this one also looks like a castle. Maybe it was for the same effect

of like keeping things beautiful in the area. And at the time, this was the best version of a jail the town had ever seen, which I feel like I say that every time I talk about a jail, that it was the up and coming prison of its day. Wow. It was made with pink sandstone, which fun fact is known as brownstone, which, fun fact,

is known as brownstone, even though it's pink. Pink sandstone. OK, brownstone, not quite as charming sounding. Apparently, it starts pink and very quickly fades to brown. Oh, OK. Yuck. It was quarried nearby, so locally handcrafted. And the front three levels of the building were for the

sheriff the jail matron and their families okay and I did not know what a jail matron was do you know what a jail matron is? No sure don't. It is the person responsible basically the correctional officer for a women's ward. Correctional officer for... oh okay so okay. She just is responsible for the women's part of the but she's called a matron instead of like a cool cool title Yeah, it's jail matron. Right? Okay. Okay girl And I wonder like in the 1800s. I don't even think about women having jobs So like I wonder like what the stereotype of a jail matron was back then. Like, what did she look like?

Or was her living situation... Yeah, I wonder if it's sort of like a matron at, like, a boarding house or a nun, you know, mother superior. I imagine it's probably a very, like, strict persona, right? If you're, like, the head of all the women, quote unquote, criminals, you have to, like, have an iron fist. Yeah, and at that... Eva says, mama Morton from Chicago.

Yes, that's exactly right. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we know all about it already. You have to have an iron fist. Eva says mama Morton from Chicago. Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we know all about it already. Yeah, OK. That actually totally solved half of my questions. Thank you, Eva. But she, I guess, lives in one section.

The sheriff lives in another section, and their families also live in the front. She has a family. She's allowed to have a family, even though she works. Wow. I wonder. Or maybe she live in the front. She has a family. She's allowed to have a family, even though she works. Wow. I wonder. Or maybe she lives in the Harry Potter closet of the sheriff and his family.

Maybe it was how many cats are her family. And they're like, OK. OK. You can bring those. Maybe because then the cats also get a job to catch all the mice or something. I mean, that's always important. Yeah.

So everyone's employed all of a sudden. I love that. Love that. The back part of the building was the actual prison and there were 32 jail cells apparently they were usually eight by eight in size and Which is the size of my actual? troll hole interesting eight and

Okay There was it was meant to be able to fill up 68 prisoners at one time in the jail. But sometimes it would get up to a hundred when the conditions started getting really bad. There would be six people to per cell. So six people in the troll hole crammed together. Oh boy. Yeah, yuck. crammed together. Oh boy. Yeah, yuck.

Three floors were men and the last four, the fourth floor, the top floor was for women. But in the 1970s, that was when the conditions started getting really, really bad. And there was a lot of overcrowding. Probably that was the time when people had six people to a cell. Yeah. And they were like, okay, we're moving the women out and we're going to send them somewhere else. And now we've got a whole fourth floor to spread people out. And even that didn't work. And they were still overcrowding. Great. A confirmed 21, although some say up

to 22 or 26 people died in this prison. And that was between 89 and it closed in 1987. So two years away from 100 years old. Wow. So basically in 100 years, just over 20, 25 people died. I wonder, it feels like a lot, but I don't know comparatively if that's a lot for the time. There's like one person every four years basically? Or five, maybe for five years?

It's like hard because they didn't really take care of people, especially criminals as well back then. So I'm like, I don't know if that's normal or if that's like a shocking number. Yeah, like what's the average people who, how many people die in jail per year or something? I don't know, man. It's probably too many, I'll tell you that.

I do think if it was in a penitentiary, I would be impressed that only one person dies every five years, but this is also a jail where at max 70 people are supposed to be there and one's dying every few years. You know what, that's a really good point. So it feels like a lot because it's a smaller amount of people.

It's not just a massive complex. Okay, that's a really good point. 70 people, that was my high school. We all knew everybody, smaller amount of people. It's not just like a massive complex. Okay, that's a really good point. 70 people, that was like my high school. Like we all knew everybody, it was 70 people. You're all dead now. And now like at least you look around and like one in every five of you is gonna be dead and eventually so.

Cool. Boy, so yeah, people were dying mainly early on, which I think is interesting. Most people that were dying in the prison was due to like intoxication. So I don't know if they were like overdosing or they had alcohol poisoning or. Oh my God.

But it was. Intoxication, wow. Apparently that was like the main cause of death. And again, it could have been like misrepresented and they could have been dying from something else and they just happened to be drunk. Like, we don't know. Right, right.

A lot of the other deaths were suicides. Weirdly, four of the deaths, so that's like already a fifth of the people. Yeah. Four of the deaths were sheriffs who lived on the property and they kept dying from heart attacks. And then probably because you live on site with 70 prisoners.

But yeah, someone would have a heart attack, they'd bring in a new sheriff, he'd die of a heart attack and it happened four times. What the fuck? Isn't that weird? That is weird. The other deaths, most of the deaths, like I said though, were suicides, including 53-year-old Mae Vanner,

who set herself on fire in the cell. Uh-oh. Yeah, and the story goes that she was actually only put in jail for the night because she was supposed to be detoxing from either intoxication or some sort of overdose that she was on. So she was just not in her right mind and wanted out.

So other inmates who were incarcerated here were, and there's quite a list. One, his name is George Prokogen. And he shot one of the handlers at a brothel who was escorting him out before he was ready to leave. Another is a guy named Mark Heck who robbed the inn he used to work at and he killed his former co-workers in the process of the robbery. Another one is this woman Bernice Butler who drunkenly shot and killed her husband and her son witnessed it. It, it was like their kid too. It wasn't like an adult. Like,

she didn't mean to. She was just drunk and got him and the whole family was there. And so that's bad. Um, and then there's Walter Benjamin Robertson, who was also known as the proposal day murderer because he killed his fiance the same day he proposed. Yikes. Isn't that something? I need more of these like Serial killer names. I found someone yesterday as I was doing research for today that I almost did and it was the

What did they call her? Oh my god, Christine. I like say I bookmarked it which I haven't done in a long time as like a future story Her name was the, one moment, the Crystal Ball murderer. Oh, I know. I was like, how have I not heard of this? She's the fortune teller murderer or the Crystal Ball murderer. So I've bookmarked that for future story. But yeah, so I love these like wild names they give.

I love a name, not to say that I think serial killers are notorious enough that they deserve a name, but in a fun hash slinging slasher from SpongeBob thing, if I had to come up with a name for myself, obviously I would take people up on that. Yeah, it's like they all have some sort of wild name and some of them are just so out there. Like Crystal Ball Murderer, what does that even mean?

But I'm sure the newspapers ran with it. Well there was also Thaddeus, which I love that name. I don't think that's such a great name. Such a weird ass name and so old. Thaddeus and Gary Lewington, aka the Blood Brothers, and aka the 22 caliber serial killers. Oh my God, pick a name. I know, I love how they were still shopping it when they got caught.

They're like, wait, wait, can we please pick a name first before you arrest us? Can you white that out on the paperwork? I don't like that one anyway. Yeah, can we write it in pencil in case we change our minds? Well, the two of them, apparently they were robbers across three different counties,

and had killed 10 people before they got found. Oh boy. Well the two of them apparently they were robbers across three different counties and had killed 10 people before they got found. Oh boy. And then there were 18 year olds Lewis Angel and Harmon Cordray who went AWOL from the Marines went hitchhiking to Ohio and then killed the guy who bummed them a ride named Alan Drake. There's also the milkshake murderer, which ring ding ding old school, and that's how we drink.

Oh yeah, we've covered that, right? George Burton. We, I know, I know I did the milkshake murderer because it was like a whole. Because obviously, yeah. Because obviously it was like such a, let me look it up and maybe it's a different one. Milkshake murderer.

Is that what his name is? He shot a server named Wanda who gave him a milkshake that was not filled to the line. Wait, what was his name is? He shot a server named Wanda who gave him a milkshake that was not filled to the line. Wait, what was his name again? Sorry. George Burton. No, maybe I haven't. I think that was one that I saw back in the day

and then I was like, well, there's really not much to it. He just shot somebody because they didn't do the milkshake right. That's exactly right. Apparently he actually like was so pissed at her and was like, you're cheating me out of my fucking milkshake. I'm going to come back here with a gun. And then left.

And then left. And I think she just thought like, OK, that was like an idle threat. And he literally came back with a gun and shot her. Oh my god. OK. So that is fully premeditated. Sure. So that is fully premeditated, sure.

Woof. And then one of the women who stayed in this prison was 72-year-old Laura Devlin, AKA the Handsaw Slayer. What? Who are all these people? In the 1800s, you had nothing to do. You might as well pick a name. It's like you're-

Might as well. And nobody's taken it yet, right? Yeah. Like they're further chosen, further taken. Well, they say she was allegedly being abused by her husband. I think, I don't know if that's true. If it is not true, it's used as a way to like justify her actions, I guess. But they got in a fight at one point.

She finally snaps. She kills him. She dismembers him with a handsaw, throws his torso into the backyard, and then takes all of his limbs and head and bakes them. Oh, what? Oh, I was not expecting that. Why don't they call her something else about the baking? Yeah, the handsaw baker or something.

The handsaw is not as interesting as the rest. Like, Jesus. They get, so then she wrote a letter to herself as evidence that he died, saying that she got this letter from his family in Philadelphia, and while he was there, he passed away. So if anyone ever came one asking about him, she could show them the letter.

The mailman shows up being like, where is your husband? And she shows him a letter that says, you know, he died. He's like, one, I'm your fucking mailman. I don't remember ever giving you this letter. And two, Philadelphia is spelled wrong. So when I, so people who live in Philadelphia would have known how to spell that. And two, you drew the stamp on. Shut up girl.

You couldn't even spare and fucking two pennies or whatever for a stamp to seal the deal. Well, so then he calls the police and they get to her house and she is allegedly found burning the rest of his limbs in the stove to get rid of evidence. Oh God, this is so disturbing. Okay. The last person I will mention who was an inmate here, this is the most famous story at the jail,

is of 17-year-old Carl Etherington. He was a dry agent detective for the Anti-Saloon League of Ohio. I knew it. These fucking prohibitionists. Blech. Also, Anti-Saloon League is just like, what a cool way of saying losers.

Yeah, fucking nerds. Fucking squares. I'm a dry agent detective. Shut up Mariska, what are you talking about? Like, come on, you're fine. Get a hobby, leave us alone. He's also 17, it's like of course it's a fun game for you and you can't even drink.

You get a badge, of course you wanna be the dry, whatever the fuck. It's just like Junior Park Ranger or something. Seriously, like you are a little too big for your britches, my friend. Well, so this is in 1910 and he was tasked with raiding a bunch of saloons and speakeasies in the area. And during the raid, I don't, every single source

told me a different story. He, it's either a dirty cop he runs into or one of the local saloon owners that everybody loved. But it's someone that the city seems to care about because they're on their side of like keeping all of the bars open. Right. He ends up in like fisticuffs with this person

and in self-defense shoots the guy and the guy dies. So now the town is fucking pissed. They're like, this nerd came in and just shot up the guy who was giving us booze. What are you talking about? Oh no. So this thousand person mob starts forming through town. And-

By the way, I'm so sorry, we're recording this July- Was that Storm? No, it's fucking fireworks. It's July 3rd and I keep like forgetting. And so every, I'm like so jumpy. Cause it keeps. It sounded like a storm that made me so jealous. I wish, no, it's a fucking fireworks.

And we live like right on the river. So it like carries, not the licking river, a different one, but it like fucking carries and like blasts through our house. It's very alarming. Anyway, if you hear it, that's what that is. Poor puppy dog. And I apologize.

He doesn't give a shit. It's mostly me that's concerned. Nobody else cares, just me. Well, yeah, so a mob forms in town being like, we have to go get this guy. Yeah. And I don't know. Again, the sources feel different.

But either because he shot and killed somebody, he ended up in jail, or a lot of sources say to keep him protected, to give him protective custody from the mob, they just put him in jail for the night. Oh. But if it's the version where he shot a dirty cop, I imagine he's now in jail with friends of this dirty cop

in charge of the jail for the night. You're in trouble. And either way, the mob goes to the jail, knowing that's where he is. Probably because the cops were just as mad at him being there because they all seemed to be dirty in the prohibition space. I think they just literally unlocked the fucking door

to the jail and just let this mob come in. They say like the mob broke in. It sounds like they really just like waltzed in. Oh, they like had a key. They like had a key. Yeah. They find his cell. Somehow it's like a big ass heavy metal Queen Mary door. So they say they broke in. No, I think a cop literally gave them the key. Or they stormed the jail, found the keys and opened the door.

That happens too, I feel like, yeah. They find him, they beat the shit out of him with a hammer. Oh, God. Nearly to death. Then they drag him through the jail out to the town square, take him to a utility pole, and hang him. And allegedly, allegedly for the rest of the week, 5,000 townspeople came to see his body.

Oh my lord. He was white in case anyone's wondering, because I was nervous when I saw saw lynch mob in my nose. So just, not that it matters, but in case anyone was having thoughts about that. But also the thing that's most important to me is like this guy was 17. That is disturbing.

That is disturbing. I know back then it was like, oh, well he's an adult basically, but like he's not, you know. an adult basically, but like he's not, you know. Either way, that's, he's like the most notorious death to happen there because it was definitely the most dramatic. Very, yeah, yeah.

At the very least. The governor of Ohio like fired the mayor and the sheriff and all the cops all in one fell swoop after that because they're like, how on earth did any of this happen? And how did people get into this jail and just take one of your prisoners and hang them for the entire town to fucking see, and everyone was fine with it?

And I think it was like 60 people were indicted for murder and battery and rioting, so. Woof. Yeah, rough time. So now fast forward to the seventies. This jail is falling apart. Ohio has issued new standards for state jails and like this place couldn't even begin to pretend that they were up to code from the very, I mean, by the, by this point, it was

already falling apart and the conditions were terrible. And so when they came up with this like new set of standards, the jail was like, oh, they're like throw their hands up. Yeah, no chance. So by 1987, so he survived for almost another decade, like despite breaking every single code possible. The conditions got worse, it ended up closing in the 80s. It reopened his offices and storage space until 2012. And then in 2012, interest was peaked in restoring the jail. So they decided to do what every jail I cover seems to do, which is open a haunted house and do ghost tours

in the jail to raise the funds to preserve it. Yeah, I guess once you see one jail doing it, you're like, well, we might as well. It's always weird to me when haunted places run Halloween houses. It's always weird to me when haunted places run Halloween houses. I agree. It feels like, ooh, how far? It feels like a gray area a little bit.

I feel like I understand this is the perfect space historically. If it's already haunted, makes sense why it'd become a Halloween thing. But also, it doesn't feel enough like a TV or movie set where I can just enjoy my time here. I feel like I'm part of my head is like, Oh, people actually did die here. This is like kind of fucked up. Yeah. It feels kind of like that strange combo of like push and pull like, well, yeah, I want to just like be like, Ooh, creepy. But also like, Oh no, someone was hanged outside. Most people were, yeah, it feels strange.

Especially when, like the ghosts of the Halloween attraction are homages in some twisted way of the ghosts. Like Queen Mary, every Halloween they do a thing, and one of the people who died on the Queen Mary was John Petter, who got cut in half by a door. Yeah. And one of the whole attractions is just like John Petter and like half of his body. I think I remember seeing like a like a spirit Halloween half body pressed into a door.

Oh my lord. So they're like, see, see. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they still do that. But I remember like 10 years ago they were doing it and I was like, Oh, God. So they're like, see, see? Yeah, I don't know if they still do that, but I remember like 10 years ago they were doing it and I was like, oh, that feels a little off, but whatever. So this place, oh my God, I'm being summoned.

What was that? Summoned by my own alarm. What is going on? Why does my phone keep thinking it's time to like go into battle? Oh my God, that scared the bejesus out of me. It scared me too, but that's the only way I wake up from things. Yeah, you do.

I mean, I remember we stayed in a recently adjoining hotel rooms, and I went like this. I'm so sorry. No, it was fine, because I was actually already awake, I think, which is why it was so startling. I was on my phone, and I just heard this like, raaah. And I thought, oh, this is the end. Okay, nope, it's just Em rolling out of bed.

And not even because Allison takes videos of me where that, I mean, it's like the Avengers, like we're summoning you to go fight a battle song. Like it's like, like it's a loud, loud song. And I sleep with my phone like this next to my head. So that way the speaker will be directly at my ear and Allison will take videos of me just completely sleeping through it.

Like. How, have you gotten tested for sleep apnea? Like how are you sleeping through that? I don't know, I've slept through three fire alarms so far. Or like narcolepsy or something, I feel like there's quite a bit of. There's something going on.

That's alarming a little bit so to speak. I really just, once I'm asleep, I'm truly fucking not of this planet anymore for a little bit. Okay, all right. So it has to be really loud, but I don't know. I don't know if there's a condition going on. I haven't looked further into it. I just... That's for another day.

We have enough stress on our plates right now. Let's not even think about it. That's for future M. That's a future M problem. That's a future M. That's a future M problem. It's a future M. Anyway, this jail is created the syndicate haunted house group. And they did spell it sin-diket. Oh, that's fun. I do like that.

I do. And then they also have their preservation society. And they work hand in hand to do preservation efforts, including the jailail of Terror, which is the seasonal Halloween haunted house. I'm the worst. I'm like, ooh la la. That's so cute. They're like, no, it's terrible.

Well, my favorite thing that I do really like this part is apparently this jail is notorious, apparently, through Ohio, as one of the most haunted places in Ohio. And the jail of terror, because every Halloween haunted jump scare house has to have a theme. The theme is you are ghost hunting at the jail. Oh, that's kind of fun.

This is a quote from from someone it says, it's based on paranormal ghost hunts, you start off like you're in a ghost hunt, and it just gets worse until you get to the basement. Oh so you but they're like Acting like you're getting I guess you're like playing a character and it's like oh stuff is going on like a murder mystery almost Like they're having words come through and stuff like they're I haven't seen it I have no idea. But I do know that the theme is you are ghost hunting there and people are jumping out at you.

So maybe you're just like a really successful ghost hunter and all the ghosts are coming out. I have no idea. All right. But also, can you imagine in like one of the most haunted jails and like the basement or the dungeon is like notoriously the most haunted and the scariest.

Imagine being paid certainly not enough to have to just sit in one of those cells all night waiting for somebody to come through. That's such a good point. It's not even for the people going through. It's for the people who are acting there. They don't get to just go to a strip mall and hang out in the dark. They have to be in an abandoned haunted-ass prison for real and pretend to scare people. You're so right. That is the worst of both worlds. Hopefully the sounds of people having fun

and creepy music and everything is distracting you from the truth. But I have seen pictures and video of this basement and it is fucking scary looking. So I can't imagine being like the first one down there as you're like getting ready for the night and like opening up, you know. That feels like not the job for me. Not at all. Well, this place is incredibly haunted.

The old Licking County Jail is wildly considered one of the most haunted places in the state. And people encounter cell doors slamming, they feel themselves getting touched, they have heard whispering in their ear, they've heard whistling, keys jingling, moaning, they've seen shadows and lights, they've heard footsteps, they've heard giggling from children and adults,

there's laughter. Ew, giggling of adults, I feel like we always say giggling of kids, but giggling of adults is also really bad. To hear an adult go, hee hee hee, what are you talking about? I feel like we always say giggling of kids, but giggling of adults is also really bad. Like who's giggling? What are you talking about? Ugh. People see full blown apparitions, people's electronics batteries die,

they have seen black masses just appear and vanish right before you. People have gotten shoved, and people have also gotten attachments where something follows them home. Oh no. And of course there's just EVPs and orbs abound. People have also heard crying.

People have seen when they knew they were in a group of a certain amount of people, they have noticed someone else following them. People have heard screams so loud. This is specifically construction workers who have done like restorations here. They have heard screams so loud coming from rooms that are now walled up. And the screams, they've had to raise the volume on their music they bring with them just to muffle out the screams and finish their shift. Can you imagine someone's like, no, I'm really stuck in here.

They're like, I know, turning up some Billy Joel. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Oh my God. That's so awful. Well, yeah, can confirm nothing should be going on back there. In the area that was once the sheriff's family's home, people get really sick and even pass out.

And in the dungeon, people feel themselves getting grabbed all the time. They see shadows darting around corners. Heavy chairs have gotten thrown by themselves. And people feel this really intense oppressive presence that makes them immediately want to leave. Some even claim that throughout the jail you can see Carl trying to escape from a group of people. Oh that's sad. That's so sad. Yeah. The jail has been featured on

several programs including Resident Undead, a movie called God Don't Make the Laws, and then our favorite, Zach Bagans has inserted himself into the narrative. So obviously I have to talk about that. I will say this episode was like pulling teeth trying to find it online. I don't know why, I don't know what Zachary's fucking deal is.

He's everywhere. He's everywhere and nowhere all at once. It's like he has some deal where you have to join. Like God. He is Jesus. Well. Um. I mean, have you seen that big ass cross tattoo

on every inch of his body? You know what? I have and he showed some nuns in one episode and they were pissed off. Oh, dead ones to be clear. Of course. Well, uh, he, I don't know, dead ones to be clear. Of course. Well, he, I don't know what his deal is. I feel like he has a contract with six different streamers

and they all get a certain set of episodes. Oh yeah, and then they trade them out around or whatever. It's so fucking annoying. I literally added myself to three different subscriptions last night trying to find- And then they all have like fake names. They're like, join like the Mewtwo channel. And you're like, what?

And they're like, it's only 69.99 a year. And you're like, and now you don't even have the episode you promised me. Exactly. I had to cancel immediately because they said, oh, it's on this random network. So then I joined that network and then it wasn't there. Or it said like, oh, this episode's coming out next year in 2025. And so I had to cancel it and then it wasn't there or it said like, oh, this episode's coming out next year in 2025.

And so I had to cancel it and then join. Anyway, I found it on Roku. Oh, okay. I don't have a Roku by the way. I just joined Roku last night so I could watch this stupid thing. I'm now officially a population one more of Roku City. Thank you so much.

Oh, welcome. So anyway, I joined Roku for everybody and I watched this episode and since apparently he wants- Oh, by the way, thank you. I think I'm seeking some gratitude from us, so thank you, Em. Since he wants to gatekeep this episode from you, I found it and we're gonna talk about it,

so no one else has to struggle like I did. Okay. I'm such a martyr. And the first line of the episode is him looking at you through a jail cell door. I'm sure. And he says, in many ways, a jail is worse than a prison.

What? And that's where it starts. So I thought, excellent, great start. Okay, yeah, we're in it now. You're like, Roku, thank you. Thank you, Roku. He. Let's see where this goes. Okay, yeah, we're in it now. You're like, Roku, thank you. Thank you, Roku. He also, he was walking with purpose. I know that the director was like,

we need you to walk down the hall. Like, usually he's standing with his arms crossed in front of the building when he says his little schtick in the beginning. And then they zoom. Every scene, I feel like they forgot to do some scenes where he's walking and some where he's standing.

All of them, he's walking in a different direction to finish the sentence he started in the last clip. He's just walking, he's all about that walking life. Okay, but I love that. Maybe that's why they didn't put it on. They like took it off all the streaming platforms. He's like, I don't want anyone to see this. Like just give it to Roku.

And he's not walking like a normal person either. He's walking like he's trying to find a bathroom right now. That's why sometimes a jail is worse than a prison. No bathrooms in sight. It must be. And so anyway, he's letting you know his opinion on jails and prisons. Then he interviews this guy named Eric,

who is now a paranormal investigator, but was once, I think, like a local cop who actually brought people to this jail. Oh. So perfect marrying of two situations. Yeah, he has like special insight. Yeah, now he investigates there at night, which it's gotta be so weird. I would feel, I would make it my whole personality

in that building, though like I had seniority to others if I knew what it looked like when it was in operation. Oh yeah, you'd be like, that actually, don't lean on that. That's an original 1895 Bar Something really great happened in that room, but guess you had to be there. Yeah, you had to be there It was like I was just be clear. I was there

I was there was everybody understand that I was about it Yeah, if you talk about it to somebody and you act like you were there. I will let everyone know you weren't there Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm watching you all the time because this is my jail, actually. Yeah. So he tells Zach, he was like, yeah, we hear people cussing visitors out all the time. We've seen people get scratched.

And mid-interview, Zach hears a sound upstairs, which happens to be Carl's cell. So they go check. Mid-interview, I love when that happens. I do love it. Like, that does feel like something that he can't always control unless he's hired Aaron to, like, do some jumping jacks upstairs. Like, so actually it could be so easy.

Unless he's hired Aaron to go far away and Aaron is like, I'm bored. I'm going to do a cartwheel. Yeah. I feel like that's more likely. So this cop turned investigator. He says, oh yeah, I'll go with you. We'll both go look at Carl Selle. And he does say, we've gotten EVPs from this room, which

they play, and they are very creepy, of a man's voice very clearly saying, I'm Carl. Help me. Yikes. And it's very clear. It's not a- That's sad. It's a class A EVP. I wonder-

Bruh. It makes me sad that he has to say, I'm Carl. Like- Yeah. Instead of, cause you sometimes hear like, help me. And that's really scary. But the fact that he's like, I'm Carl, I got killed. Help me. Like, ooh. Or like, I'm Carl.

I know you know my story because we both know how fucked up what happened to me was. Like, you know why you need to help me. Like the guy you always talk about on, the guy you're talking about on camera, that's me. I'm Carl. Ah, ah, goosebumps. I know, GooseCamp for sure. Ah, by the way, the psychic medium was like,

oh, when I receive, when I get goosebumps, I know that. Yeah, I know. I was like, ah! I'm sure whatever you were gonna say at the end of that sentence was beautiful. And so, you know, I just don't, I know. I was like, ah! I'm sure whatever you were gonna say at the end of that sentence was beautiful. And so, you know, I just don't, I don't care. I actually made that noise before she finished speaking. So I have no fucking clue what she said,

which is why I just kind of repeated it in the exact same fashion that it originally happened. Yeah, I just started screaming. Well, so they go to his cell, they ask for him to show himself, and immediately Jay's camera dies. And it was like, this was mid-interview. So it was early in the day.

The cameras were definitely charged. And also, they even show his camera and Aaron's camera that were off the same charging dock, and Aaron's camera is still at like 70%, and Jay's just drops dead immediately. Whoa. Then they're talking to this investigator named Carla, who has a chihuahua named Shaq.

And apparently, Carla, whenever she investigates, she brings Shaq with her to the house. Can you imagine being this tiny little chihuahua who your stereotype is to already be shaky and riddled with anxiety? And now you're bringing lots of this dark ass, abandoned haunted jail, just so you can be used as a ghost detecting tool. First of all, like every other Chihuahua ever,

you've been named something so much bigger and stronger than yourself. Sort of giving, like sort of implying that you are ready to fight, even though you're just a shaky little guy. And then they're like, anyway, come on, time for work. Time for work where like, you did not ask for this, you're just too small to escape me.

Poor baby Shaq. So she says, oh, Shaq always barks when something's near. So Shaq is, justice for Shaq, get Shaq out of there. Shaq's on the case, you know? And so this is when Zach, oh, he says, oh, hi Shaq, I'm Zach, love that. Okay, cute, cute. And then he says, oh, Shaq like barks anytime

there's a ghost in the room. So he, then he announces to the camera, he says, everybody, this is the canine version of a melmeter, which is actually pretty funny. Oh my God. Okay, I guess. He's very into him, into the dog being a living version of ghost tools.

So then- It's kind of cute, I get it. In the matrons area, the investigators catch a video, not the investigators like the GAC, Ghost Avengers crew. Right. Shaq and his humans are the investigators I'm talking about. Oh, I see. In the Matron's area, or the woman's area, the fourth floor,

they've caught in the past a video of a see-through apparition peeking out around a door frame. And it does look really fucking creepy. I gotta be honest. I fucking hate that. I don't like it. Then one of the investigators tells Zach, oh, we had a spirit box session one time

and we got this voice, creepy by the way, creepy man voice saying, I'm David. Nobody asked. Yeah, okay. Thanks David, go away. Thanks. So they get, I'm David. Nobody asked. Yeah, okay. Thanks David, go away. Thanks. So they get, I'm David, and then they took a picture of the room

and a literal man is standing on the corner. Oh! Literal man, you cannot deny. He's like, yeah, I just told you I was here. Yeah. Everyone started screaming. On that same investigation, one of the investigators,

or I don't know if she's an investigator or just someone who works at the jail and she was there that night, her name is Misty. She is way too young to be dealing with bullshit like this, but she is on this investigation, probably for fun, of course. And she starts hearing her name getting called. Uh-oh.

And they ask David, because they also, they get this one really creepy EVP and clear as day, it's a man going, hey Misty. Ah! So then they ask David if he is the one saying the name. You're a pervert, David, are you a pervert? Well, it was a men's prison and he'd probably never seen a woman in quite some time.

So can I ask again, how old is Misty? She feels like a late teen or an early twenties. Okay, okay, hopefully not a child. I don't think there was anything illegal going on, but she certainly was too young to be dealing with this. I mean, it is a ghost, so I don't know if that's illegal to begin with, but yeah, I do understand what you're saying. Maybe not as bad as it sounds.

Okay. Well, so they ask David, are you the one saying her name? And he responds in the spirit box, we love her. Ew! They play the CVP, it actually really is so creepy. Hey Misty. Blech. Zach interviews Misty.

She says that David is, after that night, David has attached himself to her and now there's a shadow man that walks through her house at night. Oh no. I can't even think. I can't even think. Oh no. Oh no. That's the worst thing.

You don't want to bring that home. She didn't want to scare her family and also her dad doesn't seem like much of a believer. So she didn't want to say anything and like seem crazy. And then her dad told her he'd been seeing a shadow man walking through the house. The dad who's like not into this whole thing. Oh no, and he didn't even know. So now there's two people who are seeing the shadow person.

And then her little sister starts feeling something staring at her around the house. And one time even something touches her on the back. So the whole family is dealing with this thing now. Zach halts the show. He says, Misty, this jail don't know her. We're investigating your house. Oh, what?

So they go to her house. They go to Misty's house? Her dad's like, are you fucking kidding me right now? 12 minutes into this episode, they say, nope, we are going to Misty's house, her dad's like, are you fucking kidding me right now? 12 minutes into this episode, they say, nope, we are going to Misty's instead. This is hysterical, okay. They turn on the spirit box and right away, hey Misty.

Forget it, are you serious? Misty is wigging out and so am I. I am too. Every time, and Zach even says while we're there like making sure that he's in the room because he's attached to you, you need to be saying you need to leave this house, you're not welcome, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I don't know if that's actual proper protocol, but okay, whatever, that's what he told her to do. So she's saying you need to leave this house, you need to leave this house. Every time she says it, the rem pod next to her freaks the fuck out Zack here is a quote from him. I Decide now is the time to be more aggressive with this spirit to hopefully force it out of the home. I

Was really holding back and being gentle, but now there I have no other choice Also, this this poor girl is now being fucking haunted by a poltergeist that I don't know if I have any control over, but let's stir some shit up and then leave. Sheer lunacy. At the time he starts up, an orb is actually seen shooting into Misty's head.

It is a weird looking orb. It shoots into her head and then she grabs her head like something touched her. Ooh. The next day, after looking through the footage from her house, he goes to Misty's family and says, yeah, it's definitely haunted. Okay.

The dad, by the way, Misty, not that I think that you listened to the show, but if you happen to come across this, I gotta be honest, your dad did not seem helpful. The show, like he clearly is not a believer. He was giving the energy like, oh my kid gets to like be on Ghosts of Entrance so I'll be there too.

But when they were saying, this is what's happening to your kid in your own fucking house like wake up and like pay attention to her, something scary is going on. He was like, man, that's cool, that's cool. Like, I was, which like, I was like, you're not giving the energy that's needed here. Wrong vibe, man, that's cool. That's cool. Like, I was like, you're not giving the energy that's needed here. Wrong vibe, man.

Yeah, he was not reading the room very well. Anyway, again, Misty, if you hear this, I hope I was wrong. I hope that you got the help that you needed, because I have a feeling Zach did not actually help get rid of anything in your house. No, you don't say. If he did, please correct me. But I would bet at least 50 of my dollars that...

Wow. That he did not. And also on top of it, it seems like, no wonder you didn't want to tell your dad because he's giving the vibe that he would have made fun of you. So... Yeah.

I hope you're okay. I hope you're okay. I also hope you're okay. Zach then basically says, sorry, Charlie, we've probably stirred shit up and now we're gonna go investigate this jail that our producers paid for. Bye. So he really just.

Anyways, yeah, we just made it so much worse. See ya. Anyway, have a fun night sleeping here as we just made you- And arguing with your dad. So they now go back to the jail. The Sorry Misty Hope follows well. They decide that they want to look for the spirit that was peeking around the door frame and one of the investigators footages. Okay. So that's their goal. They're

looking for this person. So creep TBD on if they were ever found. Let's be fair. Some say they're still looking to this day. They go to the basement or the dungeon. Apparently five people have died here. I actually do think this is like so it could have been footage from when you and I go ghost hunting because it's footage of him looking at his equipment as he's walking down the stairs and he's going by himself. And this place actually is so scary. It's the room where there's... Who's Zach?

Zach. He's going into the dungeon by himself. There's apparently that super oppressive thing who like throws chairs around. And he keeps saying as he's walking down, he does seem like uncharacteristically scared. He's like, I don't, I really don't wanna be here. That never happens.

As he's walking down the stairs, you hear at the bottom of the stairs, a cell door slam super hard. And you see him stop in his tracks and go, what the fuck was that? And then he goes, he says, all of a sudden, I'm standing here, not really wanting to go down these stairs. I don't want to be here. I Have some maybe that's why they don't play it on any other channel because he's like I got scared. Yeah It's like it gets even worse because he goes downstairs. He before he even gets through the door. He's like, I hate this feeling I don't want to be here He you'd literally see him recoiling from the room and backing away. And then you see him hide from the camera

and giving himself a pep talk. Like he's- Oh my God, stop. He's like, roses, roses. Spring of the year. No, but he's literally, you could hear him go, what the fuck's wrong, man? What's going on?

Oh buddy, oh buddy. I never thought I'd feel like a little bit of pity, but wow. He's like clearly so rattled. He's like so freaked out to be down there. But he like gets it together. And he even says in like the voiceover, he's like, I've been in so many scary rooms.

Like why this one is fucking with me, I don't know, but I'm so rattled. So he gets down there, almost backs out, gives himself a pep talk. He gets himself together and goes back into the room and acts all tough. And he really goes and balls to the wall because he then says, Are you mad that I took Misty away from you? Oh, jeez. No wonder he didn't want to like go into that room. He knew he was gonna piss something off. He already had plans. So then he hears a voice on the spirit box

or he just hears it in real time, but he hears a voice, they're able to replay it and it sounds like something saying kingdom come. Ugh. He very, because he hears it, I don't know if it's through a machine or what, but he hears it in real time. He fucking bails.

He was like, that was, I tried. Next. Enough for me. And then like, that was, I tried. Next. Enough for me. Enough. And then he makes Nick go in his place. So then Nick eventually also hears a sound in one of the cells while hearing, while feeling like pressure on his chest. And when he asks for another noise or sign, nerve center loses two of their cameras at the same time. That's not the sign you want. Like if I said, give me a sign and like all my shit turned off,

I'd be like, I get that that's a sign, but I should have been more specific. Not that sign. I also don't know which one it was, but I would be even more freaked out if through the walkie talkies you heard them saying, your camera went out, you're by yourself, we can't see anything. Exactly like you can't communicate anymore.

It's like, well, okay, I should have really specified. I still want my connection to humanity. Please don't cut me off from the world. Which, it feels very symbolic of like, now we've trapped you, like no one's coming to help you with whatever we've got going on. Now you're in jail. Yeah.

Which is worse than a prison, so. Honestly, I've always said that. I always will. So one of the X cameras comes back on, but like the footage is fried. Like it looks like all like fucked up and glitchy. But the one on the fourth floor in the women's ward stays completely shut off. And that's where Nick keeps hearing noises above him on the fourth floor. And all of a sudden the camera is out. So he goes up there by himself.

So round of applause to Nick. He goes up there by himself and he finds that the X camera has completely died again, which this is now the second camera to die. Cause during their walkthrough earlier, a camera died up there, remember? Yes. So now this is the second camera.

He like apparently had a fanny pack with a brand new battery in it when he went up there. So he went, okay, I'm just gonna replace it while I'm here. 12 seconds later, as he's just turning around and walking away, the camera dies. And it was a fully charged battery. That's when you're like, okay, this is not just a fluke. If a key is happening with new batteries,

yeah, that's not good. In 12 seconds, I've never heard of a camera draining that fast. Especially that it started. It's not like, Oh, the camera's completely busted. It won't even turn on. Like the fact that it started back up and then died. So now that's the third battery to die, brand new battery to die in the room. Then they get this unclear voice in the spirit box when he asks about Misty, but something's talking to him. We just don't know what it was saying.

Then he sees something and takes off downstairs. Like he is not even responding to the walkie talkies. They're like, what's going on? What did you see? And he's just flying down the stairs. He's like, fuck this. He's like, not even talking about it. None of your fucking business. He was like, I don't care that we're doing a TV show. I'm out of here. So now he gets back to nerve center and the whole squad goes together because they're all scared. All holding hands. All holding hands.

They hear banging on the fourth floor, the women's ward again. They go up there, the fourth battery is dead. I love that the ghost is like, come back here. I killed your camera again. I know, but also I would be so petrified of like that's four batteries worth of energy You've charged yourself up with like how powerful

Yeah, I hadn't thought of it like that they later have the local investigators listen to the evidence and the spirit box voices and The investigator confirms that it sounds like David And that's where it ends on that episode of Ghost Adventures. Which that's actually a good one. Why wouldn't you have that one everywhere? That's a kick-ass episode. I wonder why they're holding back on us.

Like lots of evidence. Zach is actually scared. Like you do a whole separate side investigation. Like I don't know why they canceled that one. But- That's so weird. I wonder why. I wonder if they're just out like

in a different cycle right now Like it's just gonna be back. Yeah Anyway, if you need an account to Roku, I'll send you my log in An account, thank you. Oh my gosh, and that was a good one, especially for a last-minute one. Yeah, I thought so too Well, usually when we do a last-minute one, I'm just gonna go watch a ghost adventures So, dude, well, usually when we do a last minute one, I'm just gonna go watch a Ghost Adventures episode and figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and find this topic, which I kind of love, too, but I love that you were like,

I'll do this topic, and then you're like, shit, they won't let me watch the Ghost Adventures episode. Like, this is supposed to be easy. And I was so tired. I was literally, like, doing, like, the thing where I'm, like, nodding. The nodding. And I already knew I had to keep it together for another 45 minutes to watch the episode,

and it took 45 minutes to find the episode. I was so fucking over it. No wonder you fall asleep like a rock. I mean. I know, I just hit the ground. Anyway, I'm glad you liked it. I was surprised that for something I had to do last minute, it was a very good episode.

Well, I'm glad too, and I actually left, I had it downstairs. Actually, can I run and pee, because I have a prop to bring. No, it's a good prop. It's about you. It's like something you did. That makes it sound better, right?

Ha ha. Okay. You know, you have piqued my curiosity. So absolutely. All right, I'm going to mute myself. I'll be right back. I don't know if this is going to make it in, but when Christine says I have to go get something downstairs,

she has to run down like five flights of stairs. So we might be here alone together for a while. You catching your breath from all those stairs, huh? Yeah, it's a lot of stairs. OK, so I brought our new book. Here it is. Ooh. La la.

Because I'm covering, I thought I'd do like a little teaser, cover a story from an upcoming chapter of the book because I realized as I was doing the audio book portion of it, like recording it, which you have not done yet, right? Nope. I just did mine the other day. It was super fun.

And while I was doing it, I realized how few of these stories I've ever mine the other day. It was super fun. And while I was doing it, I realized how few of these stories I've ever covered on the podcast. Like I think there's only two of mine that are... I really tried to only do new stories for the book. Yeah, there's, I mean, so I thought why not do like a little teaser of one. And of course, I'm not just going to read the chapter. Like that would be hilarious.

But can you imagine if you just said a dramatic reading of your own fucking book? And you have to just be quiet the whole time because I'm reading. The irony of also a podcast and an audiobook kind of actually really being the same thing. I mean, a jail is better than a prison, so a podcast is better than an audiobook,

but they are very similar. By the transitive property, we all know that to be true. No, and as I was doing the audiobook, it was so funny, the guy afterwards was like, wow, it really sounds like you were just talking, not reading. And I was like, well, that's the one perk of my job is that I learned how to pretend like someone's listening to me.

That's very nice of you to, did you like your guy who? Oh yeah, he was great. Am I working with him, do you think? No, cause I'm in Cincinnati. I didn't, well, I didn't know if you were going to have like a, like if it was through Zoom or something. Oh no, it's his store. It's his, it's his studio here in Cincinnati.

So I went to his studio, but, which last year I did it just over Zoom and this one felt much more professional because I had to stand. You stood. Oh yeah. Wow. I went to, I went to a recording studio and they absolutely gave me a seat.

Damn, okay, well next time I know. Yeah, anyway. But I did feel like that kind of thing of like, oh singers, they have to like open their chest, you know? Hmm, gotcha, gotcha. Work on my instrument. Of course, keep her together, yeah. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

You wouldn't wanna lose that that would you folks? Okay? One want to put that at risk so here's our beautiful book probably 99% of you are not on video, but we're very proud of it It's called a haunted road atlas next stop again. This was not part of the plan I just it comes on September 20 29th and please pre-order. It's very important I'm pretty sure it's September 24th, but I could be wrong Yeah, it's one of those days. It's the last week of September. Yeah Pre-orders are very important to our sales. So instead of purchasing later, please purchase now. Thank you so much. Thank you So this is the Indianapolis chapter. It took me a while to pick one

But I am going to do the Indianapolis chapter, which is a story about the Claypool Hotel. And interestingly, so Em has, we have read the book, right? So folks like we have read these chapters, but it was A, like nine months ago that we read them for the last time, and B, we don't remember anything. So I'm thinking Em's not gonna know what this is right away. Not even a little bit.

It would be interesting to see if my comments are the same as the comments in the book. Well, that's kind of why I brought the prop, remember? Because I wanted to make sure I got the right input. And I did make separate notes for this. I didn't just, again, I didn't just copy paste the chapter. But it's pretty similar. So if you like what you hear,

maybe you can go pick up a copy. And if you don't like what you hear, buy it for someone else. Yeah, someone with better taste than you. So, wow, I'm really selling it, huh? Okay, this is the Claypool Hotel. It's in Indianapolis, and it was once located on the corner of Washington and Illinois streets and was built in 1903 by a local businessman named

Henry Lawrence, whose goal, which sounds like what you just talked about about this jail, whose goal was to build the finest hotel Indianapolis had ever seen. They're always trying to build the finest. I'm so tired of the finest. Give me mediocre. Get in line with Holiday Inn Express.

They're like, it's not the finest, but it does what it says on the tin. They have been just fine, so why do you feel like you need to do better than that? Why reinvent the wheel? You know what I'm saying? So in addition to its luxurious amenities, for example, steam laundry and private bathrooms. No, I do like that. Okay.

Yeah. For 1903, that's important. The water pressure was probably terrible. It's probably a hoes, but still. The first toilets, I'm sure, like, were they, did people think they were just a scam? Because people had to be clogging those things all the time. Oh no. It must've felt like they weren't even worth it, you know,

until they figured out how to like really get the suction going. The plumbing. Oh. So in addition to these quote unquote luxurious amenities, the clay pool also boasted, which reminds me of the Pfister Hotel. It had shops, it had a barber shop, it had an ice making plant, you know, a restaurant, it had all these parts that were meant to make you feel like you were at a

one-stop luxury stop, one stop luxury shop. And the hotel, like he wanted, became one of the grandest in the Midwest, it was considered at the time. Yeah, so he did nail it. That, however, all changed in 1943 when housekeeper Lillian McNamara opened the door to room 729 and was shocked to discover the body of a woman face up with her arms above her head. Oh, eww.

Just lying on the ground. Oh my God, okay. Her slip and army issued uniform skirt had been pushed up over her waist and she had been sexually assaulted. Her head had seemingly been bludgeoned with a broken bottle that lay nearby and so there was this big pool of blood and in the pool of blood near her head lay a single quarter. A single quarter. Heads or tails?

You know what? I don't think it was notated, which is problem number one with this investigation. Before long, they were able to identify the victim as 32 year old women's army corps corporal, Mayoma L. Ridings. Now, this is so irrelevant, but I love her name, Mayoma. I think it's really pretty. It's like Naomi, but not Mayoma. Well, I was gonna say Mayo, which I do like. But, um. My favorite condiment. It sounds like Mayo and Paloma or something. Oh yeah, well, M-A-O-M-A, yeah, Mayoma.

So detectives quickly set their sights on the first suspect they had, which was 23 year old bell boy bellboy Robert Wolfenkton. And when they interviewed him, because he had been working that evening, his story was a bit shady. So Wolfenkton claimed that on the night of Mayoma's murder, he had brought up a bucket of ice to her room,

which he had requested. He explained that she allegedly spoke to him through the bathroom door, suggesting he leave the ice on the dresser and take a single quarter as a tip Okay, a single quarter you say mm-hmm on the whole Wilfington story seemed normal enough that you would just Be bringing up an ice buckets not that weird, but when police checked the in-room dining log book He had failed to list this delivery and he claimed, oh,

I just totally forgot to write it down, which is a little shady. Yeah, didn't forget, or did he? Because it was still there. That's true. That's true. But either way, it was shady, but there really wasn't too much they could do because they thought he might be the guy. He actually also had like a very guilty conscience. They thought, they thought. Because he said, ever since this happened, I haven't been able to sleep.

I've been losing sleep. I've been drinking more. And they were like, hmm, could this be a guilty conscience thing? But it also may have just been, he went through a traumatic experience thing. So who knows? But even though he was very drunk when being questioned

and was not the most reliable witness, they didn't have anything factual to hold on to, so, or to hold him to the crime, so he was let go. Now, they did have another lead. Mayoma had received a call to her hotel room the night she was killed, and when they traced back who had made this call, turns out it was from a Corporal Emmanuel Fisher, who was stationed at a nearby base. And he told police he had a date planned with Mayoma that night. And so he got stuck at work, and he got called in

to stay a little bit later. And so he called Mayoma's room to tell her, hey, I'm going to be a little bit late to our date. And he heard a man in the background of the phone call. And so he assumed Maoma had found another date already for tonight. So he just shrugged it off and moved on. Now this is where M's probably longest interjection of the whole book is located right here. Do you have anything to add to try and guess what you said here? What was the prompt that I...

Oh, and you don't want me to read it again? Sure, yeah. A few hours later, he claimed he called Maoma again only to hear a man on the other end of the line. Assuming Maoma had found another date for the night, he shrugged off the incident and moved on. I don't know. What did I say?

Well, let me find the page. Please hold. So M said, and I quote, Compliments to him for just shrugging it off. I would have secretly made it my whole personality, gently stalked them on social media, and then still platonically followed their Instagram 10 years later because I've now been remotely invested in their life for so long that to just walk away from it all

would feel like losing a comrade in this fiery hellscape. Anyways, hi Michelle. I would be lying if I said I didn't pick it for that very reason because I read that last night and went holy shit Are you okay? Michelle said what I went on one date with and I can't un I can't I can't unfriend them I just I like to see what's going on. I get it. I think it's a very relatable take.

Michelle is now married, by the way, to someone who listens to this show. I thought you made a fake name, Em. Why the fuck would you use a real name? I don't know, why not? I'm not ashamed of it or anything. But apparently, at some point, like years after we went on our one date, she said something

that she was like, she's like, oh, I just, just saying hi, I'm dating someone now who listens to your show. And then they end up getting married. And you were like, I know, I follow you pretty extensively and thoroughly on Instagram. Not extensively, just so she shows up on my feed, I'll, you know, I read what it's about.

But. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Okay, well, that's very funny. I'm so funny, I'm so glad I wrote that. Yeah, are you guys glad to hear Em laugh at their own jokes? Em, you better reread this before you go do the audiobook, because you're just gonna be laughing at your own jokes the whole time.

There were a couple times during the reading of the audiobook where I said, mother fucker, I can't believe I have to say this out loud. And it's like something I wrote, but there was one where I literally did a whole, a whole verse of the cha-cha slide. And I said out loud to Charlie, our publisher, and to the guy, Mark, I was like, do I have to sing this? She's like, no response. And because they're probably like, fuck your fucking book. You wrote it. So I'm just like, okay. So I'm like, cha cha real smooth to the left,

to the right. And I just see like these like people just watching and like taking notes. They always look so stern. They don't look like they're having fun. It's so embarrassing. I was like, I can't believe I did this. So if you don't want to copy a rare book,

maybe just listen to the audio book. Cause it is really embarrassing what I did. There was a point the last time I recorded where, to be fair, the guy that I was working with, I don't think he liked me and I don't think I liked him. We just did not connect. But anytime I said a joke, I really just needed someone

to just at least fake laugh through the glass so I didn't look like such, I didn't feel like such an idiot. Didn't laugh at a single thing. And I went, okay, well, obviously you're not gonna buy this book. So in my mind I was like, can we get someone who will buy the book to be in charge of this?

So I've got good ears. Yeah, but you also don't want them to be laughing during it, right? Or you just want the validation of, well, you guys have to be quiet. No, I was in like a sounded off room. I know, but maybe he was laughing. How can you tell?

Because I could see him through the glass and he was not laughing. Oh, so you want him to just kind of like... At least respond. Yeah, something. Give me something. I think he's probably not allowed to. Maybe you should give them like, you can say,

oh, this is an interactive recording session. Cause I feel like most singers and stuff would be like, don't fucking interact while I'm recording something. You're different, we're different cause we're like, we need validation. You're allowed to laugh along. Yeah, I'll let them know. I'll be like, my instruments and I both really need

the praise, so do what you need to. It fine tunes my work, thank you. Anyway, so that was Em's interjection at this point. The guy was like, oh, looks like she found another date tonight. Well, too bad I got stuck at work, bye. And went on his merry way. So police had no reason to believe this guy,

this corporal was lying, so they moved on to a third suspect. This third suspect was an unnamed hotel employee. We still don't have his name. And he became a person of interest because at the time he had been labeled as a sex offender. But when police could not come up with any rhyme or reason to connect him to this crime, they were back at square one.

So I think what frustrates me about this is that any of these people maybe were involved, they just don't have any fucking proof. Like- Did you, at this point in your notes, did you have a guess on who it would be? I mean, I think this Wolfenkne character and his single quarter sounds a little suspicious, right?

Yeah, yeah. And I don't know for a fact, because again, it also happened so long ago that like, I mean, I only know what a couple articles are telling me, but it just seems a little odd, especially the fact that he was like too drunk to even be interviewed multiple times. I think at one point, like he went to his parents' house

and like refused to come out. There were all these like strange behaviors that he was doing to avoid talking to the police, which I'm not saying that's abnormal. I'm just saying in the context of like, did you kill a woman? Like it's a little abnormal. So anyway, that is unfortunately where we end

that particular murder because it has never been solved. Oh, yeah. So wait, is the episode done? Wait a minute. No. Oh, okay, okay. That is why I said that particular murder is now over. Got it.

Because it just, they just couldn't link anybody to it, which is very frustrating because I feel like we don't have enough information and it's just a big bummer. But we got to move on because on July 18th, 1954, this basically happened like right as people were starting to kind of get over the hullabaloo about the first murder. Like the first murder happens at this luxury hotel.

Everyone's like, holy shit. 10 years later, everyone's kind of like, oh yeah, we've sort of started to move on. It happens again. So it's almost like there's like this curse on this place. I don't know. That's just me saying that nobody else, but it's a little bit odd. So just as the public started to kind of move on and pretend like this place was

perfectly normal and luxurious as before the unthinkable happened and another woman was killed. This took place July 18th, 1954, when two housekeepers noticed what they called, quote, a horrible odor coming out of the dresser in room 665. Oh shit. Yeah.

And in what I can only assume was a very, very traumatic moment and probably happened in slow motion. They pulled the dresser open together, the drawer, to find the body of a woman jammed inside of the dresser. Yeah. Terrible. According to the Indianapolis Star, her quote, five foot six, 125 pound body was jammed into a dresser drawer that was about 48 inches by 24 inches and approximately 10 inches deep. Okay. That's okay.

Horrible. So was any, well, I guess we wouldn't know this, but I guess her body wasn't like cut up. Like they just really like coordinate kind of like. They just, yep. They just kind of shoved her in there yeah not i don't know what like i know it's it's all bad it's all bad as we like to say um but it's it's extra bad i mean it's not extra bad but it's just sadder because you have more information when you

find out that this is a young woman who's only 18 years old uh her name is Dorothy Poor, and she had been visiting Indianapolis in search of career opportunities. And when the county coroner took a look at her body, he determined she was probably smothered to death, like probably with a pillow. A creepy side note here, which in the chapter I put at the end of the book, but I feel like is worth noting here because time-wise it just makes more sense I put at the end of the book, but I feel like is worth noting here because timewise, it just makes more sense when telling it out loud. But apparently, so Dorothy went to Indianapolis in search of a job, apparently before she left and I'm not entirely sure where she's from, but a different state. And before she left, her grandmother had taken her to a fortune teller.

And the fortune teller had warned Dorothy to never visit Indianapolis again, because she had already been. And she said, you shouldn't go back there. And they said, why? And she said, because you face death upstairs in a building. Oh shit. And this is what this fortune teller allegedly told her

before she left and went to Indianapolis anyway. And this is what this fortune teller allegedly told her before she left and went to Indianapolis anyway. And this is what her grandmother told reporters. So you know, it's kind of a... Why are people going to fortune tellers just to not listen to them? That's a really good point. It feels like Lillian Darcy, the grandma, was like, it was all her idea, you know? Also like there was that in like Miss Molly Brown, like the unsinkable Molly Brown, she

literally, they said, don't go near water, you will die, you will die, you will die. Homegirl goes on the Titanic. Like, what are you talking about? Like she just, these people just are spending money not to even use the service that's coming for them. So I don't know. If someone said stay away,

I don't even know if they're a fraud, I would actively listen just in case. Just in case, you know? I don't even know if they're a fraud. I would actively listen, just in case. Just in case, you know? I don't even want a like weird self-fulfilling prophecy where now it's in my mind and I'm, you know. But either way, she probably said, grandma, I know you don't want me to get a job because I'm a woman, but I want to go get a job.

And so that I am imagining it was something like that. She's a young woman. Her grandma was like, don't travel to Indianapolis here. A fortune teller will tell you not to do it. And she's like, grandma, like, you know, I don't think it was, it sounded like the grandma was very much more into this whole fortune teller thing than she ever was. But in any case, that is a creepy side note. So she went anyway to Indianapolis. And interestingly, when they looked at records, it indicated that Dorothy was not staying here at this hotel. She was actually staying

at a different hotel called the Lorraine Hotel, not the clay pool. So detectives were like, well, how did she end up at the clay pool then in a dresser drawer? Obviously that's step number one. And detectives kind of surmised after talking to her family that she had probably been lured to the clay pool with the promise of a job interview. Which makes me extra sad. It's like you're vulnerable already as a woman. You're trying to get a career path started in the 50s.

And there's so limited opportunities. Yeah, it just feels extra icky to take advantage of somebody like that. And there was actually an undercover reporter, which is a totally separate story that I don't even talk about in this chapter, but I remember researching this story and there was this undercover reporter who was a woman

and she tested it out by going to Indianapolis dressed like she was there to look for, like dressed like she came from a small town and was in the big city to look for a job. And she said she just did it to see how people would treat her. And she was like, it was horrible. She said she got off the train

and like all these men came over saying, I've got a boarding house for you to stay. Oh, you look like you might need a ride. Like just stranger danger times a thousand. So it's, I mean, it's extra creepy when you think about like that was kind of the norm that people would swarm in like to help you quote unquote. And if they have bad intentions, you know, not good.

Oh, thanks. So in any case, they thought, okay, well, she was probably lured here for a job interview. And fortunately police already had a suspect in mind. And that's because somebody else was staying in this hotel room. And that was a person listed in the log book as Jack O'Shea. And this is room 665.

So they're thinking, okay, Jack O'Shea, we got to figure out who this guy is. But they're assuming this is a fake name, because why would you sign in with a real name if you're going to murder somebody in this hotel? Why would you sign in if you're smart? Yeah, yeah. If you have exactly.

So employees, they had instead draw when they couldn't find a Jack O'Shea, they had the employees describe the man that they interacted with, and they created sort of a composite sketch to release to the public. And when they released this to the public and said he may be going under the name Jack O'Shea, a dry cleaner in town said, oh wait, I know that guy. He used to work for me and his real name is Victor Lively. Uh oh, okay.

So he's caught, police bring him into custody. Immediately he confesses to the crime. He's like, oh, you got me, I did it. Isn't it funny when it's that simple? It's just like, oh, okay. It's like, oh, you got me. I did it and it funny when it's that simple. It's just like, okay It's like seriously guy So he described himself as a contact man for a human trafficking ring What? Yeah, he described himself as that I know that's why it almost feels like he wanted to talk about it

Like they're like, yeah, you know those criminals where they say like they're just itching Yeah to open the flood gates and tell you, he's like, I've been dying to tell someone about this. I really, finally, I didn't, I was hoping it wouldn't be the cops, but I guess here we are. So, which also like, if like, he clearly is not fun. He's totally fine with like being a snitch too. Cause if he just wanted to like fess up to the murder, he wouldn't be like, oh, I'm part of a human sex trafficking ring. Where now I obviously have to tell you other people's names like that's a really good point and like he just implicated a whole bigger group of people and Implied he has other victims. Yeah

He just he definitely now has just made a bunch of enemies Like if you got caught for something when you just be like, yep. Yep, that's me And that we see would have look any further. Yeah, and then you'd have no trouble But now it's like all you've done is ratted a bunch of people out who are gonna be mad at you. And they probably have no problem killing you. And now you're probably gonna face much bigger charges. Like, why did you even go there?

It just doesn't make any sense. He sounds like a yapper. It sounds like he just- He sounds like a fucking yapper. He sounds like he just nervous talks. He needed to, he just blurted it out. And then he tried to probably do the thing that a lot of us do, or is it just me, where you try to fix it by explaining it further.

And then it's like, wait, no, now I'm over complicating it. And I, you didn't need to know all that, you know, you just kind of word vomit. So maybe that was his whole thing. But yeah, he did. He immediately was like, anyway, me, I'm a contact man for a human trafficking ring. He immediately was like, anyway, me? I'm a contact man for a human trafficking ring. And my role in the organization is to seduce girls and coerce them into sex work.

So like, okay, what the fuck? Then they ask, okay, well tell us what happened to Dorothy. He admits he tried to make a move multiple times. She rejected all of his advances and so he strangled her. He's like, yeah, I did that. So after a 13 day trial, he was sentenced to life at the Indiana State Prison, but he was paroled in 1980

and he died less than a year later. Okay. So those are the two big deaths here at the hotel, but I wanna tell you that there's a little bit of a haunting capper to the story. Ooh, I love. Because of course there's a haunting. These are very traumatic incidents that happen here.

Yeah. So after two gruesome murders and a big fire, the clay pool had to be demolished in 1969. And even though the hotel itself is long gone, now, wouldn't you know it, there's a good old Embassy Suites sitting right there where the clay pool used to be. So almost like not the luxury hotel we all wanted,

but the moderate one that's cozy and works well. It's affordable, doesn't need steam laundry, good old fine laundry will do, whatever. As suggested. Yeah. As suggested. Yeah suggested totally true So the embassy suites sits in its place and I feel like you don't often hear about like a haunted embassy suites But it is haunted. So Staff say that and guests have said that and so if you decide to stay

This is what I wrote in the book and I kept this line in because I'm like that's really silly But I wrote if you decide to stay the this is what I wrote in the book and I kept this line in because I'm like, that's really silly, but I wrote, if you decide to stay the night on your own haunted road trip, take note, the hotel may well be haunted. Cleaning staff often sense cold spots and some have even spotted full body apparitions. One story tells of a woman who heard the water turn on in the lobby bathroom despite having entered alone.

She opened her stall to see a woman in old-fashioned clothing who asked her whether she was enjoying her stay. No I'm not, not anymore. Yeah when the woman responded in the affirmative, yes I am enjoying my stay, the apparition leaned in close and whispered, are you sure? That's a fake story, that has to be a fake story. My response was, or my note in the book was not anymore.

I'm not sure what the fuck kind of question is that. But yeah, that's a pretty famous one that apparently happened that she said, are you sure? And then just vanished. Anyways, hi Michelle. Anyways, hi Michelle. We're all troubled here. Yes, yes, we admit it.

That's the Claypool Hotel and it's two murders and it's ghosts. The ghost was weirdly worse for me. The maybe horrible. That's just, that feels like that's cannot be real. That someone like, first of all, you would think if you, you, I would think you either hear of a sink going off or water running or something when you're not, not in the room, or you see something or you hear her talking. And you don't hear her talking twice.

I think you're jealous. Like in response. Maybe I am, but I- No, but I feel like you've told stories where it's like someone has a conversation and then they're just like never were there. Or like an elevator operator who helps you with your bag and then is never there, I don't know.

Just, oh, yeah, I just hate it. That was, well, that was all bad and also good. Thank you so much for your time. Of course, I love it. This is the first ghost story I've told in years and then I was like, that's not a real story. I'm like, cool, I guess I'll leave it to you next time. I just totally just like stole your ability. I'm like, no, no, don't take my job for me.

I mean, no, I loved it because you were scared by it. So I'll take it if it's fake, whatever, but it scared you, so. Oh, oh my gosh. Well, yikeroonies. Well, what a great plug for the book. That's what I thought. I was like, oh, it can't hurt to tell a story from the book.

And I didn't do many that have like, so some of them have QR codes in the book where you can go listen to a full episode on it. Oh, yeah. Now you can tape this up. You can just write it in with a Sharpie. Or if you're coming to one of our book signings, maybe I'll write it.

Maybe we could have a stamp of a QR code to this episode and we just stamp it in the book. Actually, that's a great idea. We'll just get stickers and just hand out stickers. We'll be like, stick this somewhere on page 214 or whatever. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Maybe we'll put a thing at the top or something that says, like, this is also featured in this book, so that way they cross promote each other. Oh, I love that. That's great. Yeah. Well done, Christine. I'm very excited.

Of all this, though, I'm most excited for you to tell me all about your time with your own fortune teller recently. Yes. Was it a medium that you spoke with? It was a psychic medium. She told me to not go upstairs in a building. No, she didn't say that.

Oh, my god. I really had a heart attack for a second. OK. No, she did tell me some really weird things though So I am going to talk about that in the after chat Uh the after dark. Let's let's go do that If you're part of patreon come on over with us and I am very excited to hear what what warnings someone has given christine That I know she will not follow. It's not warnings. It's not warnings She was like there's nothing to be scared of and I was like, well now i'm scared I guess it's like so you're telling me I nothing to be scared of. And I was like, well, now I'm scared, I guess.

It's like, so you're telling me I can't be scared of anything? Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like you were given bad information. I know there's something to be scared of. OK, well, I'll see you over there. See you soon. And that's why we drink.