And That's Why We Drink - E388 Stress Rashes and Deranged Camera Angles

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

Welcome to episode 388, where we're screaming inside! This is the gossip episode; first we go deeper than even we usually go into our anxieties about adulting and the process of writing an entirely new live show, then Em brings us the salatious hauntings of Cock Lane (can someone please tell us why that's funny?), and lastly Christine covers a story full of sad, terrible gossip in the story of Suzanne Sevakis (part one, tune in next week for part two). And help us say a fake goodbye to the Troll Hole... and that's why we drink!Get a sticker to match Christine's from the incredible artist and Etsy shop: Luckie 13 Cat Creations!And get your tickets to our new live show - we promise we will finish writing it and it will be incredible! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

Folks, we weren't even going to talk about it, but we've been having some lag issues on our recording software. We have tried basically everything. I promise we recognize it and we're trying to fix it, and I apologize if it has turned you off of some of the episodes. I don't know what's going on. We have like a whole team trying to figure it out and we're switching software. It's a whole thing.

We thought for a second, I mean, it's probably still, it's definitely still my WiFi over here that's hurting the issue, but I got like a whole new laptop to fix one problem and now Allison's back in town, so now we're both using the WiFi. It's so so obnoxious so I think this might be the last time that I record in the troll hole and we're officially just gonna get out of here because it's just not helpful it's just not like just hit the streets abort mission hit the red button so everyone out of hand

I hope you enjoyed the troll hole okay I mean I had currently a little resentful of her But other than that, I just want everyone to enjoy our fucking show And if the troll hole is making things worse, then we gotta say sayonara. So I know it's too bad, but We're trying our best we are Just you know, it feels like day one of this podcast all over again. Like how does technology, like how does it not

do what we need it to do? You know what I mean? It's like all our tools, they're all at our disposal and somehow we still can't figure our shit out. So it feels like we haven't evolved all that much since 2017. Yeah, I know now that I've got, now that I've got a place to be or somewhere else to go, hopefully this is the last time you deal with this.

Or this time you shouldn't have to deal with it. But sorry for the past few episodes. We know it's been a mess. And if you're listening backwards, we've probably fixed it. So don't skip them. You can still listen to them. Actually, don't listen backwards.

That just drives me crazy. But you know, you do you. Anyway, I'm sorry. Hi, I've missed you. I'm so glad we're both here. How are you? Tech issues aside, why do you drink? Oh, tech issues aside, okay.

You don't have to put them aside. If you wanna keep discussing them, that's fine too. I mean, it's still very frustrating. But let me think of another reason. Another reason that I'm sad is because this is the now officially probably the last time people will see the troll hole. It's like totally not going to be.

We're going to forget. Because we record. You realize tomorrow, right? Yeah, I know. But yeah, I'm just I guess I'm overwhelmed with the thought of moving. I'm realizing that I'm not, you know, well not realizing, but it's hitting me even harder that I'm not ready to move. I feel like I'm being forced out of my home, all that kind of stuff.

What? Yeah, I felt that for- All of that kind of stuff? What do you mean? Well, because like if we weren't for the roaches, we wouldn't be leaving. So I just, I feel like I never like I never. You defeated you. Yeah, I really would.

Even when we moved in, I told Alison, I was like, this is my forever home when I live as long as I live in L.A. I love living here. Other than the roaches, this is the perfect setup. It's not the perfect location. We have just enough room for ourselves. We're kind of starting to outgrow it, but the irony is we found a smaller place, so that doesn't mean anything.

But other than, if it weren't for the roaches, I love living here, I feel super safe. I just don't really want to leave, and there's this really gross, obvious reason why we have to. So I just don't like the idea of having to uproot. I am very much a creature of habit and I hate change. That's always something that strikes me is like, a lot of people I know and am friends with hate change.

And I'm the opposite. I'm like, change it up. I'm like already right. We moved in here and I was like, once should we move next? And Blaze was like, never. And I was like, well, let's keep the door open. I don't know. I'm just one of those people I hate things to stay stagnant.

So I'm very like, let's change shit up all the time, which I feel like is very Gemini. But most of the Gemini's I know don't like feel that way. So I don't know. My mom did a very, very good job of making me love like the stability of growing up and living in one home. Like her house is still the same one I've lived in since I was three. So like, I think to me, like even if I'm all over the place and like I'm very chaotic in certain ways, like home never changes.

And so like home is where you're never supposed to have to worry about uprooting. And so since I moved here and I've like, when I first moved in here, we didn't have anything. Now I've bought quite a lot of things. Now I'm thinking about all the things I have to like literally bring with me and that overwhelms me It's just like a lot of little stuff. Oh, yeah And I mean I feel like for me I moved back home to Cincinnati because I was like I just know I can't like I knew

I was gonna come back here eventually, you know, so like maybe that's my like Even though I would switch houses. Maybe I would, like I don't think I'm gonna leave my hometown, does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. So I don't know, maybe in a way that that's my, that's my stickler, but. Anyway, that's why I'm also, I'm just overwhelmed at all the stuff we have to do before we move in

and things are not gonna be livable, or I guess they'll be technically livable while we move in. But it's just going to be for the rest of the year, it's just going to be a big headache of getting things done. At least you have time though. Like you don't have like a week to do it or like a weekend to do it. Yeah. You know, what freaks me out the most though, which is like, it's cause I've

only ever lived in apartments after leaving my house is that I'm going to be like on a ground floor without neighbors and like it just it feels less safe which is wild because you could see it the other way of like oh not not like neighbors attached to you yeah like right now the only safety precaution I have to take is making sure that like our front door is locked and that's it but like now I'm gonna have all four walls I'm responsible for and like I just get really I mean I get that, but that's what an alarm is for, just saying, you should definitely put that in

before you move. We, yeah, we are. I just, it's just still freaky that I'll, there could be a sound from any corner and I have to make sure I know what it is, that's all. So anyway, just little things like that where I'm getting, it's becoming real and I am going through

the panic phase of it, so. That's all. Well, you seem very calm, so, you know, for what it's worth. I'm screaming inside. Why do you drink this week? Oh, I'm just drowning, but it's fine. I'll live.

Is it a schedule thing? Yeah, it's a schedule, it's a work, it's a why did I do this to myself, how do I? Isn't that fun? No, it's a schedule. It's a work. It's a why did I do this to myself? How do I? Isn't that fun? No, it's not. It's terrible. And my hives or my eczema is out of control. And they're thinking it might be psoriasis for my from my Crohn's. That's like, oh, shit. Not good. Anyway, it's fine. I just woke up and I was like, I just had like a rash like all up my neck in my scalp. My ears were bleeding.

It's just getting out of control. Is it just from stress that's causing a flare or something? I think it's stress. Yeah, I think it's stress. What do you have? It's the Beach to Sandy tour and the In That Sphere You Drink tour and having a baby.

Yeah, it's all the touring. It's the baby. It's like trying to juggle every recording and then making sure we catch up and stay caught up and making sure the house is, I don't know. And then you and I've been trying to get our tour ready for the fall and so there's all this and we keep hitting roadblocks.

And it's just sort of like, chaotic. People don't appreciate the behind the scenes work of a podcast. getting roadblocks and it's just sort of like, chaotic. People don't appreciate the behind the scenes work of a podcast. There's, I feel like a lot of people think, and the fact that you do two of them, again, there's a reason I don't do two of them. It's really a wild choice that I made, yeah.

You know what, if anyone can do it, you can do it. But I don't think a lot of people realize it's like, I think like my grandma probably thinks like, oh, all you do is like once a week, you have to sit in front of a microphone, just talk to your best friend. And that is the perk of it. I mean, that is like the best part.

Right, that's like the main part. But then it's like. There's a lot of stuff that happens when you're not in front of the microphone. We do that anyway, it's called FaceTiming, but that doesn't pay us anything. It doesn't help us anything. But okay, so I'm not, I'm not trying,

also, just to be clear folks, I'm so happy. I'm not trying to complain. I'm just like, oh my God, how do I even get, like, and then I was like, oh, my car needs an oil change, Gio needs a haircut, because he literally has like his hair matted. I need a haircut, I need to go to a OBGYNGI and- And you have to take care of GIO. Skin doctor, GIO. I need to go to OBGYNGI and-

And you have to take care of GIO. Skin doctor, GIO, and then Leona needs to go to the dentist and the doctor. I'm like, how on earth do I schedule all this? I don't even have time to record an episode or be home to take in packages. I have to call our neighbors to take in packages because no one's home because we're traveling. I'm like, how do I even have time to take her

to the fucking dentist? I don't know. Anyway, so I'm just drowning in life. It's fine. It's mostly my shit. It's not even hers. Like she's fine. It's just like, why do I suddenly need 16 doctors?

I don't have time to go to the doctor. I, you know, now is the, right before tour is usually when I do my whole like month of doctor's appointments. And so I really took in the last few months where after a long time with my own health stuff, I was calling a bunch of doctors, I took a break. And now I'm redoing it and I'm just so overwhelmed.

I totally get what you mean about how is this other stuff that got away from me for so long now, like such a priority all at once. And then they're like, oh, we scheduled it for, I don't know, August 48th, 6, 22, 35 a.m. And you're like, well, cool, I'm in Minnesota that day. That's the one day that I'm just not here. And it's like, well, then she's not available for two years. And it's like, fuck my life.

Nothing's just, it's fine, everything's good. I'm just a little overwhelmed. And it's coming out in the form of horrible skin hives and rashes, which is brand new to me. I've never really had skin issues my whole life. So I'm just like, cool, this is fun. And I wanna add also, what was the other thing I was going to say?

Oh, there's more. Okay. Oh, there's more. Well, there's always more. Come on. Who are we kidding? I'm not going to complain anymore. That's not fun for people.

No, no, no. What's the last thing? I just don't want to complain. It's not for people to listen to. I have a call to action instead, which is, folks, if you are able to, this would really help me tremendously. And you don't have to help me. This is not like boohoo me.

This is just a reminder that we, Em and I are going on tour in the fall and my brother and I are on tour right now. And a lot, some of the shows have sold out, which is fantastic, but we still have a lot of tickets available. So you know what, if there's anything anyone can do, why don't you come see us live?

That would make me feel a little bored. I don't know. Yeah, everyone make the tours that Christina's on make it feel worthwhile that you're going through all the stress now. But don't do it just because I'm demanding it. Do it only if you want to come. But it is fun.

We have, the Beach She's Sandy tour is going really well and we've read one star reviews from your specific town. So it's fun even if, actually, when I, we did a show recently, I forget where we were. Seattle I don't know oh oh Charlotte and we were in Charlotte and this woman came up to me and she goes I brought all my friends we all listen to him that's why we drink we've never listened to be she Sandy before and I was like ah so that was really scary but they I think they had a really good time so you know it can be fun it's not like you need to know the show.

But anyway, and then, and that's why I drink, we have our shows coming up in the fall and Emma and I were working diligently on getting a, we want it to be like, we want every show to be better than the last ones, you know, that's what we're trying to do. We're like very, we become like really, really unhinged about it.

Like you can see the energy is building in me. We haven't even started the actual grind work, but I think I'm just in the head space of just my eyes twitching. We can't talk about it yet, but let's just say, our tour alone, Christine, has a lot of reasons to be frenetic currently. Screaming, yeah.

It's all going to work out. It always works out. It always works out. It just ends up being like, oh, we just. It always works out. I don't know. It just ends up being like, oh, we just have to do like 68,000 workarounds and then the show ends up better than we could have imagined, but it's like, cool, did we have to go up and down 85 mountains

in our bare feet, uphill both ways to get here? I guess so, I guess that's our life. And I think another reason that you're super stressed is because I'm currently doing my portion of the show. Right, yes. And you're just waiting for my portion to be done so you can do your portion of the show. Well, and I keep being like, can I help?

Is there anything I can do? And I'm just like, please back away from me right now. I'm doing my task. And I'm like, okay, just let me know. I'm here to help. But I totally understand just sitting and waiting and just waiting to be stressed. I totally know that feeling.

It's so gross. It's not great, yeah. So my hives are not, they're not hives. I don't know what it is. Here's a good way to look at it. This is, well I don't know, do what you can with this. This is your last week where you don't have any work coming from me because after this, after this week you're gonna your part starts so fantastic I don't know if that made it better but no it will be

no there will be something to it of like okay now at least everything's in my purview so I can at least mentally figure out how much my brain is gonna exploit. On my end, you're not gonna get any guff. You take as long as you need and do whatever you gotta do. I appreciate you, endlessly. I know how long it takes to do your share of this.

Well, and has to do also the big, big, big, big part of it. Do we even talk about what we're doing or not really? I don't know, do we? I think we can, right? Like, we're, I mean,, people know the idea of what. Let's consult first with our bosses. Okay, hey, so let's just talk about it. Gio, Gio, I have to talk to you for a minute.

Leona! Okay, so obviously everyone knows that we go ghost hunting. I'm doing all of the footage watching, which means I'm currently. Like every deranged camera angle of just like a fucking creepy dark wall, Em is just sitting there for hours watching it. Which Alison made fun of me recently because I said something like,

I don't know how you just stare at a screen all day, but what I meant by it was like, because she starts at a screen and like clicks around and like, you know, types and talks to people. But I'm just like, it's really, we did, in the location I'm looking at, we've got 15 different camera angles of a 10-hour investigation. So that's 150 hours.

And then there's the audio. And it's just completely black and silent. And I have to stare for 150 hours for any sign of any movement or any sound. Crazy making. The problem is you can't just zone out. Like you have to pay close attention because you have to catch every little

ghostly thing that might happen. So sometimes Em will send me a high-level of stuff and I'll be like, Em, I think you accidentally sent me just a video of a wall. And I was like, no, there's like an apparition. I'm like, what are you even seeing? And I'm like slow mowing and I'm like, oh, how the fuck did you even, you know?

So Em's like very just like in tune with the footage. My eyes hurt, my ears hurt, my head hurts. Everything hurts, everything's in pain. And we're just struggling. And then we have to come up with a whole show too. We have to find a way. We can't even write the script until we do that. Until we have all the stuff put together.

And then half the things that I find don't even work. And so then we have to go through all the clips and we have to scrap them because some of them just- We also have to debunk stuff. We have to debunk when something's like, well, that's the creepiest sound ever. Then we go through my camera, Eva's camera, and we're like, oh, Christine was, I don't know,

blowing her nose or just was whispering. I thought, example, this time around, I thought I got the creepiest scream and it was actually you opening the bathroom door like off from another angle. So like. See, it's like, there's just so much annoying. It's like up and down all the time.

And then at the end, you're like, wow, I just wasted, not wasted, but I spent like weeks of my life and I have like this two minute clip to show for, you know. We really do scrap, so like if I find, so far I think I've found probably 100 clips we're showing Christine, 30 of them maybe are good, and then half of those will be put into the script. Like so all of it almost feels like

I'm watching 150 hours of Pitch Black for maybe 15 seconds of you to laugh. Please laugh when we get there. I know, and like I'm watching 150 hours of Pitch Black for maybe 15 seconds of you to laugh. Please laugh when we get there. I know. And then I'm like, wow, now here I am trying to get everyone to come to our shows. Are you going to come now? No, I promise.

But this is what we're saying. We're not messing around. We take it so seriously, too seriously maybe. Too seriously for sure. And also you can't do... So then I'm doing that part. Then Christine can't even do her part until I'm done because she goes through all of the actual like highlights. Like out of what, out of that many hours, you probably get two hours of stuff, which so like I'm going through all this

stuff that no one, that's what I'm talking about with like the behind the scenes stuff. No one knows like 148 hours happen because two hours gets to Christine. And then by the time Christine and I are done with it, it's down to like a half an hour stuff. It dwindles down very quickly But Christine can't she does like all the audio cleanup We have to you do like a whole like video for us to walk out to like it's all these things And then we have to write a script together So the part that you're this is I guess what I was trying to say earlier is that you may be freaked out right now Because you can't do anything until I'm done

But then I'm gonna have that same experience where I'm sitting and waiting because I can't start writing a script with you until you're Done with your part exactly exactly. It's like you're waiting in anxiety of like, okay, like I'm not rushing you at all I'm not trying to rush you. I'm just sitting in my like any moment now. I'll be like, yeah I'm just on my desk. Yeah, and and then it's like my turn, you know, it's like, it's like when you're waiting, oh my God, it's like a relay race. Not that I've ever done one of those. It's just like that. It's like bobbing propels really.

Um, I just stand there and then I'm like, wait, I'm like, come on, you know, and then I get the thing and then I'm like, oh shit, I'm so slow at running. And then I like finally get there. It's actually a great analogy. Here you go. And then it's like, and then you're dead And everyone's like, why are you doing this? No one asked you to be here. So anyway, I sorry, that was really a crazy way to address this. But yeah, I'm just a slightly overwhelmed. And I think every day that I wake up with

more rashes, I'm just like, calm down, why don't I calm down? Like, it's not working, so I'm trying to chill. You know what's very helpful with, shout out to Jordan, my therapist, what she does often with me, this was actually one of the big things that began the help that I had for stage fright, is I always hate it when people were like,

why don't you just like own the situation and then like you're kind of in control of it. And I was like, and I'm like, shut the fuck up with that. I hate that. Like, why don't you just own the situation and then you're kind of in control of it. And I was like, and I'm like, shut the fuck up with that, I hate that. Why don't you just accept that you're afraid of being on stage and that'll help you get out there? What?

That sounds like someone who's never been on stage before. Yeah, I did and I am and what? I still feel like shit, okay. So what she has done with me, because again, she's made me do the whole visualizing something that represents my anxiety. And she's been like, okay, like we get it. Like you're a 10 out of 10 on the intense scale when it comes to, is me talking to my like anxiety guy. Oh, it's like, I'm like, I get it. You're a 10 out of 10. There's nothing I can do about that. Like I am helpless

to you. 10 out of 10. You are so scary. How about today, why don't we just like try a 9.8 out of 10? And like, that was really helpful because I think I always just thought like, how do I make it a zero out of 10? I never thought about like embracing it just going gradually. So maybe talk to your rashes and be like, maybe we have, like.

No, that's not a bad idea. Maybe we allow rashes all over our body, except our nose. And look, you don't have a rash on your nose, so you already, you're succeeding, look at that. Hey, look at me go, and then that kind of prompts you to be like, oh, okay, I can do the next step. Okay, yeah, I like that, that's a good angle. I'm trying, also, I know you said you wanna go

get your hair cut, your hair actually looks quite stunning at the moment. Oh, thank you, I like that. That's a good angle. I'm trying. Also, I know you said you want to go get your hair cut. Your hair actually looks quite stunning at the moment. Oh, thank you. I took a shower today because I woke up covered in hives. And I was like, I need to rinse my body off in cold water. But thank you. I did wash my hair today, which is the first time I've even had the time to do that in a long time. So anyway, it's hard out there to be a grownup.

But we all are in that same boat. I don't think Em and I are any more overwhelmed than the rest of the human population, quite frankly. Cause at the end of the day, we're doing a podcast. Some people are literally saving lives or raising eight children or curing cancer or have cancer, right? Like we're at the end of the day, we're just fucking around. So maybe that's what I tell myself. At the end of the day, you have a fucking around. So maybe that's what I tell myself.

At the end of the day, you have a fucking rash in your ear. Grow up, you know? Okay, I don't wanna yell at myself though. I'll be nicer about it. Yeah, so anyway, it's okay. Everything's good, you know? Leona's happy, I'm very fortunate. I feel like life is good.

It's just very busy, so you know? Well, just know everyone's gonna love our show. It's gonna, every single time. This is not the first time we've panicked like this. We're always panicking like this before the show. And it always turns out great. The live show, yeah. The live show, yeah.

It always turns out great. It's gonna be great. I think it's gonna be great. I don't know how, but it's gonna be great. Yeah, next, I mean the first tour we ever did of the Queen Mary, like the first official, like, you know. Ghost hunt.

Ghost hunt tour, yeah. Our room was literally stolen by Zach Bagans. Like, he came in, like, totally unprompted, obviously. Like, we called and found out that his team had paid the hotel to, like, take our room, right? So. Round two. The comedy wrote itself there.

Round two, we were like, how the fuck could we ever top that? But then we somehow did, like we did, we felt even prouder of our second show. So now we're like, okay, now we gotta top our second show. So it just, it feels like we're the only ones crushing ourselves, but at the end of the day, we end up with something we're proud of.

So it's just, we set the bar high in this one aspect of our lives. Because everyone else has such more intense jobs than we do, we know that if you're coming to our show to relax, we wanna make sure you're entertained. And so the pressure is on because we're aware that capitalism brings everyone down and you're taking an hour and a half to look at us.

And we wanna make sure that you're happy with it. Yeah, you're paying good money to be there and have fun. And like Em said, relax and have a good time. So yeah, we want to make that the best possible for you. Did everyone like our 20 minutes of a? You know, some people, probably not most, I'm sure there's someone out there who's gonna complain, but a lot of people seem to really enjoy us

getting more candid on the podcast. Oh, really? How do you know this? Do you follow Reddit? Because I for sure do not. Oh, how do you even know then? Because I have friends who follow Reddit and they only tell me the good things.

They know not to tell me the bad things. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Or I think they're in like Facebook groups or some things. I don't know. They don't send me links. They just say, hey, this is what's nice. Yeah. Or I think they're in Facebook groups or some things. I don't know. They don't send me links. They just say, hey, this is what's up. I love that.

I love that. Yeah. My brother usually kind of keeps an eye out just in case he needs to update me on the thoughts and feelings of the masses. Well it feels like, I think as a lot of people, one of the best things about our podcast, which we've talked about a million times, is that we, you and I, our friendship grew up on this show. Right.

And so I feel like a lot of people who've been listening from the beginning also feel like they know us that well. And I think us being vulnerable is a nice element to the show. So I don't know if we should feel too bad. And my body's falling apart. So I hope that makes you feel better, folks.

I'm just kidding. I hope you're happy. you feel better, folks. I'm just kidding. I hope you're happy. Are you happy? No, I'm totally kidding. Is this what you want? Okay. It does feel like I'm sharing it with everybody though. It does feel like a venting session with friends.

You know what I mean? That is what it feels like. So I am appreciative of that. Well, let's do what this podcast has meant for as it's supposed to be escapism from the real world. So how about I tell you a ghost story? Please, thank you so much. I am drinking, usually I drink my LDs,

but I didn't have that in the fridge today. I had literally one called Weird Water, with a little octopus on him. I feel like I've heard of that. I have not ever drank that before. Where did you find it? In the fridge. Is it like Allison's?

I don't know anymore. It's mine now. Are you sure it's not alcoholic? 100% of our profits from Weird Water Go charity. OK. Purified water. OK. I don't know.

Just because it said weird water, I was like, what does that mean? Yeah, does it make you feel weird? Yeah. Speaking of those that feel weird when they're not drinking any water, maybe this is your call to action to hydrate to my thirsty little rats.

That might actually make me feel better, so I'm gonna drink some too. Oh, look at my cup. I mean, my sticker. Oh, she's beautiful. Yeah, this is my sticker that I bought on Etsy and the artist who created it Sent me. Well, I ordered like six of them and they sold out because we've reshared it on Instagram

We'll put the let's put the link in that because I don't want to mispronounce her name or anything I don't can't think of it off the top of my head, but we'll put it in the show notes To link to if you want the sticker, which by the way is a sticker of a liquid death can that says, drink water you thirsty little rats. And it's of course lemon flavor. And it says, let's crack into it. And the liquid death part says, and that's why we drink.

So it's kind of like a- How fun. I know, isn't that cute? I have one for you, Em. I bought like six stickers. Thank you. Okay, well to my queen thirsty rat, I'm glad you're hydrating.

That ought to fix something. That'll clear things up. And to my other thirsty little rats out there, please gulp, gulp, gulp. Would you like to do the countdown to my story? I would love to. In three, two, one, action. That was a good one.

Today's story has a funny name that ought to help you get through the week as well. The Cock Lane Haunting. What's funny about that? I don't know. The Cock Lane Haunting. What's funny about that? I don't know. Okay, so we are in 1757, we are in England. During the Enlightenment period, there's this man named William Kent. And he is essentially a loan shark.

Oh. Back in the day. But he is not good at his job. He loans a lot of money to people and it's nearly a guarantee Oh. Back in the day. But he is not good at his job. He loans a lot of money to people and it's nearly a guarantee he'll never get the money back. He just makes poor business decisions. So he's just a sucker.

So he's just a sucker. I think he's calling himself something bigger and better, but he really is just falling for anything and everything and then shocked when he doesn't get his money back. So that's what William's up to. He ends up falling in love with this woman named Elizabeth Lines. Elizabeth Lines comes from a very wealthy family and her family thinks you could do so much better

than that putz over there. I don't know what you're doing with this lone shark, but if you're gonna be with him, I guess there's nothing we can do about that. They end up getting married, Elizabeth gets pregnant, but she must have had a difficult pregnancy because her sister Fanny moves in to help them and help around the house.

The birth must have also been tough because Elizabeth dies shortly after giving birth to the baby. Oh no. But Fanny decides that she's going to stay and take care of her nephew and be there for her extended family. But then the baby dies. No. At like two months old. No.

So grief-stricken William and his sister-in-law Fanny turn to each other for comfort and they William and his sister-in-law Fanny turn to each other for comfort and they do a little fallen in love and Fanny's parents aka Elizabeth's parents who already hated him They're like motherfucker like I hate this guy what is he what what is so amazing about him that They're just they just can't get enough of him. Man. Uh, cock lane haunting. No, I'm just kidding.

Interesting. Interesting. Uh, but no, there must be something charming about this guy. And yeah, two, two of the daughters have now fallen in love with him. And so they decide they want to get married and her parents are like you have to be kidding me. Absolutely not This was especially forbidden because back then church law Prohibited certain marriages and a lot of times those marriages included a widow or a widower Marrying their dead spouse's sibling really

Which I don't know why that was the rule, especially because a lot of people at the time did not like that rule. They wanted to be able to marry their bedspot sibling. That happened semi-regularly. You know what's weird? It happened in my own family. There was like three brothers from one family and three sisters from another family

who just all married each other. And so much time has passed that we don't really know the reason. I was like, there's no way three brothers fell in love with three sisters. But I think what happened is that people just kept dying and you just wanted to keep everyone in the family. So you just decided to marry them to take them in. Cool.

But so that, I mean, I'm assuming that's the reason. It feels more likely than three brothers falling in love with three sisters. Wow, that's such an opposite of what Em would normally say, which is like, oh my gosh, wow, what a cool love story. I feel like. If it's all about falling in love, that is super cool. But I'm thinking logically, that's just probably not likely.

But I don't know. Who knows, maybe they were all just like, swept up in the moment. They were like, I guess I'm in love with a third sister. Or yeah, it's like, well, two of them fell in love with two of them. And then the other three were like, I guess I have to be. And so, yeah, but despite this rule, a lot of families thought like, this is a stupid rule.

Like, what if at a time when women can't take care of themselves, if my husband dies, I would like the brother to maybe take me in and my kids, just so that way the extended family all stays together. Or if the wife died, maybe the sister, like Fanny, would wanna come in and make sure that the children are still taken care of when the husband's at work. Or it doesn't have to be a romantic marriage, which by the way, marriage did not start with romance.

It could totally be transactional just to keep the family together. But there was this law that said you can't do it. And there were some churches who actually did go against that. They were like, okay, we'll marry you kind of secretly and we just won't really talk about it. But if anyone contests this, then we're going to avoid it. We're gonna say like oh, this is no so if we get caught basically we're gonna deny deny deny yeah, yeah, and So William and Fanny who were now in love with each other and wanted to get married they knew even if Fanny's parents Approved or even if Fanny's parents approved they really couldn't do it unless they found a sympathetic church.

But because her parents were so against it, even if they found a sympathetic church, they knew that her parents would challenge it and it was gonna be void no matter what. So marriage wasn't really an option for them. So they just kind of took off and they ran to London together. They moved into a rental house

that happened to be on Cock Lane. And this house belonged to a guy named Richard Parsons who was renting it out to them. Okay. And Richard worked at a nearby church. So William told him immediately, oh yeah, she's- You're telling me Dick owns Cock Lane? That's out of control.

I don't know if I believe this story anymore. This does actually sound like maybe it just got passed through England as like a bar story. Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of those like urban legends. And her name's Fanny, which is- Oh my God, you're totally right. Fanny moves onto Coch Lane in Dick's building. This is like ridiculous. Okay. It's ridiculous. Also, isn't- It's ridiculous. In England, doesn't Fanny not mean butt, it means the other side? That's what I is like ridiculous, okay. It's ridiculous, also isn't, in England,

doesn't Fanny not mean butt, it means the other side? That's what I mean, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, I don't know why they would call her that over there, but okay. William, Willie, a Willie? A Willie, Willie and Fanny move into Dick's boarding house on Cock Lane. This is really ridiculous. Maybe I'm actually telling a really long bar joke.

This feels like it's gonna have a punchline for sure. If there is, I don't know about it. The part about the baby and mom dying is not funny so far, so I'm waiting for it to get funny, but maybe it will. But also a lot of old English jokes are kinda dark. I mean a lot of our jokes are kinda dark, yeah. So I guess maybe we're in for a treat. Let's see where this takes us.

Maybe to Pornhub or something. Oh, God. No wonder our internet keeps lagging. So, yeah. So Richard has, he actually works at a nearby church. So when William and Fanny are looking for a place to move in and they find out he works at the church. They're on on site. They start lying. They're like, oh no, we were married for sure.

Don't even worry about it. We're married. We deserve to live together. And you shouldn't even look twice at that. So Richard takes them in. He is going through it. I don't know what's going on in his life, but he is hurting money wise. That's why he has people renting his house and things like that. And William, the incredible loan shark he is, decides to lend him money,

thinking that he'll get paid back eventually. And then now he's in an awkward situation where his landlord is not paying him, which feels like he kind of like, aimed the system. Oh my God. That's ridiculous. That is the most ridiculous thing you've said so far, and you've said a lot of dirty words. It's...

Wow. So like, he's literally, nope, I've never heard of such a bad loan shark that your landlord owes you money. Like, this is ridiculous. Okay. So he never sees this money again. Him and Richard just fucking hate each other now

because I think Richard's like get out of my house And Williams like paid me first. Yeah for real which like when you think it would all be resolved if William was like I'm just not gonna pay rent and we can just call it. That's what I was thinking Yeah, but I'm assuming something was going on where Richard needed even more money and the rent was like barely covering it So if he missed rent, I don't know what the deal was, but anyway, he loses the money. He never pays William back. William hates him. Richard hates him.

And they start getting into fights over it. Eventually William threatens to sue Richard, which I'm sure he's done to many other people he lost money to. His wife Fanny is now pregnant, his wife, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Common law wife. Common law wife is now pregnant. And she, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Common law wife.

Common law wife is now pregnant. And she is too stressed about this, but she did not like being alone. She was like, I can't stand the stress of either of you. I want to be alone, but I don't, I don't know really who else to turn to. She knew that her landlord had a daughter named Betty and invited Betty to come stay over, which I feel like is so messy because she's like, okay, my husband and our landlord hate each other, how about I call the landlord's daughter and have her come over for a little sleepover?

You are so right, like this is, you're right, this is getting toxic as fuck. It's like so messy. So messy. And how do you even tell your husband like, oh yeah, the guy you hate, his daughter's coming over to hang? Cause I need her to be here

cause you're not helping enough, I don't know. his daughter's coming over to hang. Because I need her to be here because you're not helping enough. I don't know. This just seems really messy. So when William goes away on business, she invites Betty over and says, oh, we can just have a girls night. Keep in mind, Betty is 10. Keep in mind? What do you mean?

You have not told me that yet. That is, oh gosh, oh golly gee. Talk about extra messy too, because it's like, now I feel like you're absolutely just gonna trash her dad. Yeah, now there's a child here. Yeah. Okay. So apparently, the thought behind it is that Fanny must have seen something in Betty

that reminded her of Elizabeth and they and she since she lost her sister she wanted to treat this other kid kind of like her sister and they just got along so it's like oh maybe she can have a bigger sister yeah okay I get it and it's the 1700s I don't know how old Fanny is but to be a pregnant woman back then she had to be like maybe 15. So maybe they really were like not that far off in age. So Betty comes over they sleep in the same room and Fanny keeps complaining about all these strange noises that keep happening at night in the house. Which like by the way you already invited a 10 year old over Shady but like now you're just scaring the shit out of her. Now she's in your bed and you're trying to scare the

shit out of her. Cool. Yeah I wonder if and you're trying to scare the shit out of her? Cool. Yeah, I wonder if that's part of the reason why she had her over. Like, because she was scared. Oh, maybe, yeah. That could be it. Right? Like, oh, I need somebody to, I want someone to lay next to me. Yeah, truly.

And like, 10-year-old, you'll figure it out. You'll help me, right? Yeah, you'll sleep anywhere. Because it was originally Richard's house, and he like moved out to sublet it, he felt like oh Betty you've lived here before Oh, right. Maybe you can Yeah Has to be so weird as a ten-year-old watching adults claim your bedroom as their room

And to be clear folks not cool do not invite a ten-year-old into your bed just because you're scared I don't know how old this woman is but like it's it's not cool. Whatever's happening. Okay so but like it's not cool, whatever's happening. Okay. So she invites Betty over. She's complaining about like, the house is so creepy by myself. Thank you for coming over. I'm just, I can't ever fall asleep because of all these strange noises at night.

There's knocking and scratching sounds and I can just never sleep. So to this day, people have also speculated that during this time, Fanny also again confided in Betty that maybe because they were like having a girls night and they were telling secrets and maybe they felt like they were close to each other. I don't know why she felt so damn close to a fifth grader,

but apparently she maybe confided in Betty that she wasn't really married to William. And so if Betty told her father, it would have only given Richard even more reason to to William. And so if Betty told her father, it would have only given Richard even more reason to hate William. Yeah, yeah. We don't know. Maybe some leverage too.

Yeah, we don't know, but that's like the thought. So William comes home from his business trip where he probably lost money, I don't know. He just gave away everybody, gave money to everyone. Yeah. And apparently things get worse between the men. They are still fighting. Eventually gets to a point where William and Fanny move out

and Richard and Betty move back into the house. Apparently, Betty reported never hearing any hauntings after that. So it was only during the William and Fanny stay that there was any creepy sounds. And at some point that kind of spread throughout the neighborhood. They're like, oh, when they lived here,

they were hearing weird things. And at some point it leaked that they were an illegitimate marriage. Oh. And so their history kind of kept, you know, followed them. And the neighborhood conflated everything and thought, oh, because they're sinning, their sister, her dead sister must have been haunting them

for betraying the family. Oh my gosh. OK, wow. Which I love a small town gossip that's a little too much. They take it a little too far, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that was the main thought is that this was clearly the ghost of Elizabeth being,

saying how could you. Scratching on the walls, yeah. Scratching on the walls. So now they've moved away because they had to. William and Richard were fighting too much. They ended up finding this other area to stay and very quickly, I guess it was like they found it last minute. It was really dirty. It was unclean.

And Fanny contracts smallpox. And remember, she's also pregnant and her and the baby both die. Oh, my God. What? I did not see that coming. So now both of his wives who were sisters and carrying his children both die. Babies both die. Oh, my gosh. Terrible. When Fanny died, everything of hers, carrying his children, both die, babies both die. Oh my gosh, terrible. When Fanny died, everything of hers, cause remember she's from a wealthy family,

everything of hers surprisingly went to William. The family did not know that they were playing house and that they got married and did not know that Fanny had rewritten her will, that everything would go to William. Oh boy. So the family was pissed because they were like, oh well now this fucking guy that we hate

and associate with both of our dead daughters, now we have to give him part of our money, fuck this. But Fanny's brother, she has two brothers, they both come into play, there's John and there's Thomas. Okay. Fanny's brother John John, eventually honors her wishes and says, yeah, we don't like the guy, but apparently he had something going on

because both of our sisters liked him. We're gonna give Fanny's share to William. Okay. I'm honestly surprised at this point that William didn't also ask for Elizabeth's because he needs so much money. Yeah. That he keeps losing everything.

He's also probably not good at being stern with anyone. So he's probably like, can I have it? And they're probably like, no. And he's like, OK. Yeah, so I'm shocked he didn't ask for Elizabeth's. I don't know if that happened. I never heard about it. But Fanny's share ends up going to him.

The money that he got was just over like $30,000 today. And the money came from these properties that once belonged to her other brother, Thomas. So he had these properties, he's dead. I don't know what's going on with this family line, but every sibling is like dying except John. So there was a guy, Thomas, he had all these properties, he died and then in his will it was,

when I die, I want you to sell my properties and then just split it amongst my family. Okay. So when he died, Fanny inherited her share, and then when she died, William inherited hers. Got it. Does that make sense?

Yep. So apparently, John, the brother that has survived it all amidst all of his siblings, he was responsible for divvying out the funds after Thomas died. But he didn't know everything. So it was a total accident. But if he finds out later that one of the properties he sold after Thomas died, Thomas didn't actually own that property, he was just renting it. And so John accidentally sold somebody else's land.

Oh! Uh-oh. And he was like, oh shit, I just sold property that wasn't ours, whoops, I need to repay the buyer, so everyone that I just sent money to, can you awkwardly send it back to me so I can repay the buyer?

Cancel that Venmo request. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So all the family was like, yeah, totally, like take this chunk of our inheritance and pay it back towards the buyer. The only person who wouldn't do it was William. And everyone's like, well, there's

another reason why we fucking hate this guy because- Yeah, this guy just sucks sometimes. He married both of our daughters when we didn't like him. Both of them are dead. He took their money and now he's not even giving back a portion that like isn't owed to him. Right. And outraged, John files to sue William for the money

and was ready to finally take him down once and for all since nobody in that family liked him. William is unfazed. He thinks that the courts are going to finally take him down once and for all since nobody in that family liked him. William is unfazed. He thinks that the courts are going to agree with him that he never did anything wrong and John was just stupid with money, says the bad loan shark. But John was just stupid with money

and it's not William's responsibility to send him money that he shouldn't have ever rightfully inherited to begin with. So he ends up marrying another wealthy woman named Bathsheba Bowers. And he thought that was kind of the end of his time with the Lyons family. But because he ended up marrying another wealthy woman, everyone's like, hang on, three wealthy women you're marrying, all back to back, and you're bad with money, and you're shady, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe this is intentional. Maybe you've got some sort of scheme going on. So back on Cock Lane, now 12 year old Betty is living in the house because they have, they're not renting it out. It's a spinster. It's a spinster on her deathbed of old age. Yeah, yeah.

And apparently she is now reporting hearing strange noises in the house. Oh, shit. Two years later. Okay, interesting. Two years after Fanny moved out, and when they moved out, there was never a sound again. She didn't hear it.

Yeah. So now two years later, now there's sounds back. Weird. After Fanny's dead. So last time it was believed to be the original wife, Elizabeth haunting her sister Fanny. But Betty starts hearing scratching noises like Fanny used to, and the locals hear about this.

And the rumor now is that Fanny has replaced Elizabeth as the ghost and is back from the dead to warn everyone in town that it was not smallpox that killed her but William. Shut the fuck up. How do I not see that coming? The way that I would be at the tavern going to every table being like are you reading about this? Like are you hearing this? If you don't believe in past lives consider this. There's no way in the entire universe of existence,

there's no way that Em was not at that fucking tavern that day, and we all know it. We know Em's soul was there just fucking eating this shit up. I was the town crier, and I think- You were, and you still are. And I've always had that. And I've always said that. I know that if I've been around for at least 10 lives,

four of them, I was a town crier. There's no way, with the amount of gossip that I just eat it up, I just eat it up. It's like a blanket on you. Like you just drape yourself in it. I was probably like some horrible unethical paparazzi or something in another life. For sure, for sure. I don't know what I did, who I was with, but I unethical paparazzi or something in another life. For sure, for sure.

I don't know what I did, who I was with, but I know that it was juicy. I do know that. Oh yeah, you know it was a grand old time. A grand. So yes, keep in mind, I'm running from tavern to tavern being like, if you haven't heard about it, I'm here to tell you about it.

Hear ye, hear ye. I feel like maybe I was one of those little newsy boys who was like, get your papers, or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just a nickel. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Okay, so the whole town is hearing about this, probably because my past life is screaming about it.

I mean, non-stop, non-stop. The Lyons family versus William, that holds a buckle. I mean, gossip was bound to happen because the family already hated a man Ryan's family versus William, that holds a buckle. I mean, gossip was bound to happen because the family already hated a man who married two of their daughters, both of them died, and now there's ghosts. So like- And he won't give their money back, right?

And he won't give them their money back when he doesn't even deserve it. The town is now saying that he was just always about money, so he is just a gold digger, he was just only about money. So he is just a gold digger. He was just only after wealthy women and he must have poisoned Fanny and just moved on to the next. Oh shit. Meanwhile Betty keeps reporting in her town, the knocks are getting louder than ever. Everyone

in the neighborhood could hear the knocks from the street. Oh my God. They happened throughout the day, but they also got more active right before Betty would go to bed. And soon one Reverend named John Moore decided that he was going to investigate the ghost of Scratching Fanny,

which is what I've obviously named her at the tavern. Oh no, that sounds like you've really got a yeast infection that won't go away. No, maybe this joke I'm telling, this long form joke is a joke I created in a past life. That's the joke. Is this the joke?

Like scratching Fanny? It feels like a thing you would say for some Vagisil, you know, if you need Vagisil. Like it feels like I've got scratching Fanny, you know? It certainly sounds like herpes or something. Like something with an itch. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have quite a ghostly ring to it,

more just like an inconvenient health risk situation. Also, I think when we say it with our American accent, it does sound more like a medical condition, but I think if like an English, like an old grandma who's like a little too silly like a medical condition, but I think if an English, like an old grandma who's a little too silly after a few cocktails, if she said, scratching Fanny, I'd be like, ah, girl, you're so silly.

You were so silly, but also, do you need me to go to CVS? Because it sounds like you do need some badge of soul. Yeah. I can't un-hear it, I'm sorry. Just a soap scrub is all you really need. Oof. I can't un-hear it, I'm sorry. Just a soap scrub is all you really need. So anyway, this reverend goes to Cochlein. I'm sure there's a joke there too.

He goes to Cochlein, he meets with Betty, and Betty has a sister Anne, so now I'm wondering why the hell she felt the need to go find a sister in Fanny when she had one in Anne. I thought Fanny was looking for the sister because she lost her sister. Yeah, but then also why didn't she also invite Anne over? Well, was Anne younger or older?

Yeah, Anne was nine, not 10 probably. Yeah, I was going to say because I don't, if she was older, then I do not know why she didn't invite Anne. I don't know. So Betty and Anne, they're at the house on Cochlein. This reverend shows up. And they're like, we're hearing about scratching Fanny. You got to tell us what's this about.

And Betty and Anne, they say, yeah, she's a real thing. She's following us all over the house. She seems to especially cater to Betty. Wherever Betty is, you can hear Fanny not too far away. They said whenever they would go anywhere, you knew Fanny was nearby because of the scratching sounds. And Reverend John Moore, he witnesses the knocks himself coming from the walls, from a bed, from a table, and he also heard scratching sounds throughout the room. He's immediately convinced of this ghost existence. And soon enough, the entire town and its surrounding towns

are talking about this nonstop. They all probably because of a name like scratching Fanny. And now in hindsight, I'm like, oh, yeah, well, that that's catchy comedy writing itself. Sure. So people gather around the home. They start showing up like unannounced because they want to hear the scratching from outside. Richard, because he's always hurting for money, he began charging admission for seances in his home for people to even experience Fanny's ghost. Everyone

wanted a chance to visit the house and to see and experience these spirits once and for all. And many would join the seances to hear the ghost knock for once for yes, two for no. And through enough seances and questionings, it was determined that yes, Fanny Lines was indeed the spirit and she was poisoned by her ex-husband William. So now Reverend John is, Reverend John Moore,

he publishes a story in the public ledger. This is me, for sure. For sure. He publishes a story in the public ledger and the public ledger was known at the time to basically be a local national inquirer. It was- I love that for them.

Every article was just essentially ragging on each other from your own town. Okay. The story he wrote about scratching Fanny, he censored the names by just keeping it at initials, but everyone could guess F stood for Fanny and Mr. K stood for Mr. William Kent. Yeah. Not smooth.

It was pretty clear to everybody what he was talking about. And then he published something in the next issue too, where he kept talking about the hauntings and the drama of the family. And basically he said that people were witnessing shadows of a woman beckoning them into the house. People were hearing the knocks and scratching at all hours, especially when Betty was in her room.

And the story kept growing and soon there were poems, lines and plays, articles and art that was all being published throughout all of London about scratching Fanny. Holy crap! Once he, once William read the ledger and was like I think I'm Mr. K. Uh oh. William called, I don't know, found Reverend John Moore. He called upon him. I feel like that's what people said back then. Like you just call upon someone,

it means like you just show up. Sure, or like open your window and just go, John, what are you doing? Hey, Johnny boy. He finds Reverend John Moore, he says, you need to clear my name, I saw what you wrote in the paper, that's fucked up. And John says, I don't know what to tell you, dude.

I fully believe in the Fanny accusations and I think you killed her. That's true. The Reverend fully believes it. So it's not like he's even just doing it for funsies. He like, seemingly, it seems like he genuinely believes this is a spirit. Yeah, and William is like, yeah,

I get that I've done some shitty things, but I'm not a murderer. Please don't let people think that about me. And Reverend Moore like, yeah, I get that I've done some shitty things, but I'm not a murderer. Like, please don't let people think that about me. And Reverend Moore says, look, if you want to clear your name, come to the house to witness Fanny's ghost with me. And you can even bring your own witnesses and we'll see what she has to say. And William's like, okay, I'll go to the house with Fanny's literal doctor, who cared for her until she died from smallpox.

And I will take her pharmacist who was prescribing her at the time she he was called an apothecary not a pharmacist. Right. And I'm going to take him I'm going to take everyone who knew her medical background who's been with her since we've been together to a test that I did not poison her stop saying that. Oh boy. So at the house, they all, all four of them, the two witnesses, William and the Reverend, they all wait for Fanny to show up. They wait for her ghost to appear. She never does.

And finally, Reverend Moore's like, how about you go downstairs and I'll let you know when she appears, which is like so shady. It's like, why, how about we all sit in the same fucking room and we see if she appears? Yeah, I don't love that. And eventually he comes running back downstairs Which is like so shady, it's like why, how about we all sit in the same fucking room and we see if she appears? Yeah, I don't love that. And eventually he comes running back downstairs

and he goes, oh she's here now, she's here now, you can come up. Very convenient. And Reverend John Moore starts questioning Fanny on the murder and they start hearing knocks around the room, ultimately asking if her murderer was in the room and she hears a yes, or she knocks yes. Yeah.

Uh-oh. William, who maybe didn't murder her, is probably like, oh fuck, this is not good. I mean, yeah. After the stance was complete, William storms out with his witnesses, and all three believed that Richard, who still owed William money,

this is Richard, his landlord, who still owns the house, still owed William money, this is Richard, his landlord, who still owns the house, still owns William money. All three of them believe that Richard put his daughter up to something or did something and has now convinced the entire town of this elaborate hoax. Reverend Moore just happens to be falling for it. Like it's nobody's business. I mean, it's very convenient that he owes this guy money, he hates him, the woman dies and now, and his daughter's like, oh, she used to hear knocking and scratches

and I can replicate those. Okay, well, perfect, perfect recipe to bring this guy down. Yeah, but also William has such a bad reputation for already being like such a schmoozer and like, like nobody's gonna believe him when he is like, oh, they just don't like me. Right, he's kinda screwed.

It's like, well, nobody likes you, so. That's not part, yeah, that's just a given. But you're right, Reverend John Moore weirdly heavily believes in the Fanny Ghost. He even met with London's mayor, this is what I would have, this is round two of me at the Tavern. I was gonna say, are you the mayor too?

I feel like your soul split up into all these people because you couldn't decide who to be. Well, he even meets with the London's mayor and asks that personally, he asks for William to be arrested for murder. Like this is a man who maybe didn't murder anybody and there's no evidence. This is a man of the cloth who's just asking

for this guy to be arrested on no proof except scratching noises. Oh boy. Other members of the public also began to call for William to be hanged. Oh my God, you can't do that. But some people, thank God, with some sound of mind, were at William's defense. But this includes some church authorities who actually saw

Fannie on her deathbed, and they witnessed Williams' adoration for her. They saw Fannie dying of natural causes. They remember the doctors saying that. And they wanted Richard arrested for false accusations against William and that he should be hanged. Yeah. Well, OK.

I was going to say, yeah, exactly. Wait, no. I don't think anyone should be hanged, to be clear. I just feel like, why are we getting so been out of shape? Like, we get it. Nobody needs to be hanged right now, you know? Just, like, relax. Like, two men are mad at each other.

I get it. Like, sit down. It's fine. I get it. The world is fucking ending, okay? But, like, come on. Take a break. The mayor shows up after hearing all this. He's like, what is this hullabaloo about some fucking guy who owes someone money? It's hullabaloo. Like, come on, take a break. The mayor shows up after hearing all this. He's like, what is this hullabaloo about some fucking guy who owes someone money? It's hullabaloo.

The mayor shows up and he's like, hold up, there is not enough evidence to arrest anyone or hang anyone. Thank you. Why are we doing this? Thank you. And thank you. And then he says, but I do order Richard Parsons, who owns the house, he must allow a church authority

and that church authorities committee to observe Betty to see if she really is haunted because maybe there's an exorcism needed. I'm assuming they didn't they told the Reverend like but your present company excluded you're not going to be the Reverend Moore was not involved. Not invited. Okay I think that's for the best. I think he's a little biased at this point. The mayor sounds like he was a good mayor at the time. I don't know what-

The mayor, for what it's worth, he kind of seems to have a good head on his shoulders, at least, compared to the rest of them. Maybe I'm wrong if I were to look up the 1757 mayor of London, maybe- His track record, yeah. But in this one case, he seems to be- But this one instance.

Yeah. So he says, this is all fucked up, but Richard, we're going to have a committee actually investigate if your daughter is being possessed or something, because if that's the case, then since we're a big, God-fearing community, maybe this girl needs an exorcism or something. Oh, God. So this committee shows up at Richard's house. It includes this guy named Stephen. He's an Earl of the church. Ooh.

A priest named Dr. Douglas. And he was known to investigate fraud in the church. There's another doctor. There's a church speaker. And then there's that Earl who I was talking about. His neighbor comes, too. And the neighbor's name is Captain Wilkinson. And he was one of the people who actually attended some of the earlier seances at the house. And oh, by the way, was so scared of ghosts that in case anything went awry at the

seance, he brought a gun to fight off the ghost. Sure. Okay. You know what? This guy seems a little kooky. And for now, I'm here for it. We'll see what happens. He was OK with the seance. He was not thinking it all the way through, though. Gotcha. So basically, it's a bunch of church people and then this guy's neighbor. They all are part of the group. With a gun.

Who is so scared that somehow he still continues to come. It's like us. We're so scared, and yet we keep doing it. There's no good reason. Don't worry. I brought a gun. It's like that doesn't make it better. That just makes it no.

That's when Christine says, oh, hmm, another location where we're told not to bring alcohol, how about I just bring wine instead? It's like that's the same thing. Okay. I'm like, I'm upset they won't let me bring alcohol. How about I just bring some gin and then I'll feel better. It's like that, you're literally missing

the whole fucking thing. I will say this won't go into the future show, so I can just say it now, but there is a clip that I think is so funny of you that I'm currently watching is that because we're not supposed to have brought alcohol and this is the third location, you've done that, Christine, you keep calling your wine, your red water. You're like, oh, I just have to go get my red water.

I said, go drink my red water. I don't even remember saying that. It clearly was just like in the moment, my like defense mechanism. I just switched my brain to don't say alcohol words. So maybe Captain Wilkinson was like, I need to bring my gun. I mean my ghost net. My big magic ghost stick.

Yeah, don't worry about it. So the committee, they all basically move into Richard's house. They're there to investigate and observe Betty and see what the hell is going on. Yeah, don't worry about it. So the committee, they all basically move into Richard's house. They're there to investigate and observe Betty and see what the hell's going on. Because maybe there really is a ghost. Despite the two men feuding,

maybe there's a ghost to pay attention to. So Betty stays in the committee's custody for several nights. Although I will say, thank God they all agreed that women should be watching her in bed 24-7 instead of a fucking 12-year-old with a bunch of grown ass men. That's a good start. And so there were four women who were on night watch essentially with her and there was always

a woman around it seems. And they noticed right away that while Betty was in bed, the knocking would begin, and the women would report back to the committee that, yep, knockin's goin' on. One woman claimed that the knocking sounded like it was Betty herself hitting her chest really hard or her fist, so like. You know what I mean?

Oh my God. You know? Whoa. Yeah, you did that really well. Thank you. Are you Betty too? I can't keep track of this. This is getting out of control. One for yes, two did that really well. Thank you. Are you Betty too? I can't keep track of this. This is getting out of control one for yes to for no lives So what do you ever see Dolly Parton how she plays the nails on her

No, oh, she's like her acrylic nails. She plays them as a washboard on a lot of her songs Wait, she's like her acrylic nails. She plays them as a washboard on a lot of her songs. Wait, that's incredible. And if you look at some of her songs in the credits of like who wrote it, who produced whatever, it will say like guitar, this person, piano, this person, nails Dolly Parton. Shut the fuck up. That's so cool.

I did not know that. I don't know if you can, I don't have acrylic nails, but. You don't? I don't know if you can hear it or not. Actually, you do that better. I can't do it either. Anyway, um, if you would like to watch a video of Dolly Parton doing it into a microphone, it's lovely.

I do. I would. So, let's see. Where were we? Oh, okay. So Betty is Dolly Parton and I am Fanny, I think is where we ended. And you're Captain Wilkinson. That's not, I don't know And you're Captain Wilkinson. I don't know. I'm Captain Wilkinson for sure with my big gun that's not going to do anything except put everyone else in danger. Sure. So Betty, they think Betty is hitting herself in some way

or she's causing the knocking and it's not actually a ghost. Sorry, I'm just like, I'm like, because I feel like you can hit your chest and make a hollow sound, you know? Right, girl. And conveniently enough, there was no knocking ever unless Betty was completely covered in bedding, so you couldn't see her.

Yeah, okay, yeah. And then Betty says, okay, but if you really wanna see her for yourself, you can go to Fanny's crypt and she will appear. You can see her there. And the men are like, who said this? Betty said this?

I think she was, in hindsight, she was trying to deflect like, I think she was like a 12 year old trying to come up with a way to like reason herself out of this. And was like, well, if you go away, then I don't have to deal with this. Yes, yes. Why don't you go over there and look for her?

I promise you'll see her. So they said, I'll buy it. We'll go to the cemetery and look for her. And I'm'll see her. Yeah, so they said, I'll bite. We'll go to the cemetery and look for her. And I'm sure this child is with callus knuckles is telling the truth. Yeah. So they go to the crypt. They don't see her.

They come back and they go, hey, Betty, no Fanny. What's that about? And she goes, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. And they say, here's what we're going to do. If there's no real proof of Fanny soon, we're going to arrest both of your parents for fraud. Ah. For one, for being complicit in your fraud and your child, but also because if your parents know about this

and they've been exploiting you by like charging for seances and letting people think that this place is really haunted and allowing accusations to spew about someone who didn't murder somebody, they're going to jail if you don't show us proof that Fanny exists. Imagine the torment of a 12 year old. A poor thing. She's like, I'm in too deep for sure, for sure.

So they say we're gonna get. Like where's her mom? I have not heard a thing about her mom yet. I thought it was just her and her dad. That's what I thought too. Her mom does show up at the end of the story, but I'd never, I think it was more like, because at that time she was property of him

and like he was about this life that maybe the whole family just got looped into this. I don't know. She doesn't really get mentioned all that much. It's mainly Richard because of his feud with William that he gets mentioned more. But so they say, yeah, Betty, your parents are going to jail if you don't show us proof of Fanny.

We'll leave you for a little bit and you can talk to her and tell her that she needs to show up. So they leave or what she thinks they leave, the men leave and they have a maid stay behind to watch Betty through a spy hole they cut into the wall. Oh no, oh no, that's not good. And the maid watched Betty eventually go into the chimney in her room and pull out a small wooden board

that was hiding in there. And then she stuffs it into her pajamas and crawls into bed. As in like, oh, now I can knock on this little piece of wood under the bed. I see, sneaky little thing. So she climbs into bed, acts like nothing happened, the committee comes back and this fucking maid snitches. Okay.

No, well isn't that her job though? Wasn't she told to do this? I guess so, I don't know, maybe they weren't homies. I feel like if I were expected to watch a 12 year old girl who was pulling a prank and it just Spiraled I would be like I've been there. That's why you weren't the maid you were the fucking Yeah, I see what you would do I just don't think that that's necessarily Well the most relatable well when the committee comes back F them, oh, Fanny will appear by morning. Don't worry, she's going to appear by morning.

I'm sure that was just to keep stalling. I mean, yeah, what else are you going to do at this point? Everyone goes to bed. The maid snitches to the men about the board she saw her grab. And the men then have the women search Betty. They find the board in her pajamas. Betty begins to sob.

And soon the story all falls into place that Richard had his money issues with William, so they already didn't in her pajamas. Betty begins to sob, and soon the story all falls into place that Richard had his money issues with William, so they already didn't like each other. And then one day after Fanny died and William ran off with her inheritance, her brother John, who was trying to find him to get his chunk back for that property, went knocking on doors in town

and stumbled upon Richard's house and went, I'm looking for this guy William, do you know him? I fucking hate him. And then the guy was like, well, well, well, come on in, let's have a cuppa. Richard was probably like, you could have not picked a more perfect house

to show up at. Seriously. Because I fucking hate that guy. What do you need? How do I help? Precisely. And so I don't know if it was John or a guy sent by John, but somebody was like, this guy owes me money and Richard was like funny

I owe that guy money, but I am probably gonna lie about that to your face and we both just yeah But obviously I'm switching it around. I prefer this storyline. Yes, so I don't know if they all conspired together I don't know what the deal was but Richard at least took it upon himself that like oh people are looking for him I've got something on him. Or I at least want him to leave me alone. So to destroy William's reputation once and for all, I'm going to tell my daughter Betty to make up the ghost of Fanny.

Oh, that's so fucked up. And say that Fanny told you she was murdered and that way he can never show his face here again because he'll be on the run as a murderer. Ultimately, Richard and his wife and Reverend John Moore and many others were charged with conspiracy for propagating the stories against William. Two of the men actually paid William damages

to avoid harsher sentences, which I love that at the end, he's still getting money out of people or not getting money out of people. He is, yeah, what the fuck? Reverend John Moore and a third guy also had to raise money in the community to pay for damages and then they went free. Which like, Reverend John Moore,

yeah he was like really intense about this, but he did nothing worse than just like really believed in something, so. He did really believe it and I feel like he just got, he just got got. Yeah. You know, like I think at the end of the day, he didn't like, he wasn't cheating or lying

or making stuff up. No, I think he just, he got got. That's exactly right. And then Richard himself, he was sentenced to two years in prison and his wife, who I said would show up, she was sentenced to serve one year of hard labor. And so I was like,

Oh my God. And I was like, what the hell could a hard labor look like in 1757 for women? That's not good. That can't be good. Apparently 18th century hard labor camps had women beating hemp with a heavy mallet, which they would beat hemp to turn the hemp into rope.

And so all she would do all day is swing a mallet and like hit a log of wood with hemp on it. And it would be from six in the morning to six at night every day for a year. That's a lot of shoulder pain. That's a lot of back pain. So fucked up, dude. That's so fucked up. And we don't know how involved she was. Maybe she like fully deserved to be like sent there, but like I don't know anything. I feel like she was not guilty. Like I don't know enough about her side of things. It seemed like this is a stretch of a punishment. Like, nobody was, I mean, I know this was all bad,

but like nobody was killed, thank God. Nobody was hanged or anything. Yeah. Sounds like they almost were though. What I thought was fun, because I've never seen this, I've never heard of a story like this in real life. Richard was actually displayed at the pillory,

which like, if you've ever been to, he like, it was one of those like the wooden things where you put your hand in your head in. Shut up. And it's just in the middle of the square so people could just, you'd say you'd be embarrassed basically, it was just, you would be locked in there. He was actually displayed at the pillory

to be publicly shamed, which you know the town crier in me would have been front row center watching him at the pillory. You would have been taking selfies with him in the pillory. I would have been like, I'm gonna put a pen in your hand. Can you sign my paper, my public ledger that I wrote about? My public ledger. And actually there were a lot of people like that because so many people in support of him and not William

actually saw him at the pillory and gave him money. And gave their sympathies and their condolences that he was being tried. Right, because they probably were still on their whole, they still probably believed some of it, or at least believed that they hated that other guy. They hated William. Yeah, totally. So he had actual fans come and support him

while he was at the pillory. And although William's innocence was proven, London itself was reluctant to give up the Cochlein Ghost, probably because of the name. And many still insist it was real. People still have talked about the Cochlein haunting. Betty and her sister went to go live with relatives until her parents' time was served.

London's mayor was extremely relieved for this to just be fucking done with because he was so over that bullshit. And Eddie was never bothered by scratching Fanny again. So that's the Cocklean haunting. Holy crap, scratching Fanny is the best thing to ever come out of any episode we've done, no offense. But wow, that is next level.

I really like that story, that was a good one. I can't believe that. I did not know what to expect today, but it was not that. So nice work, Em. Thank you. Anywhere that we can throw gossip into the mix, I'm all for it. Yeah, and a pillory situation, you know?

Oh boy. And a town crier, you kidding me? A town crier and a pillory? I call that a perfect recipe. What more could you want? Well, I'm very excited, Em, because I've actually, I haven't been so excited to do a story until this one in a long time.

Does that make sense? Did I just speak English? I don't know. I heard it in whatever language you spoke. Okay, excellent. I just cannot wait to do this story, except my computer won't let me open it, which is kind of why I'm just, oh, here we go.

Cute. Much like What's Her Name, I'm just stalling. I'm like, look over there. It's giving Betty Parsons, actually. It's giving Betty Parsons. Wow, that was quite a story, Em. Now I'm gonna tell you quite a story, and I gotta be honest, as far as gossip goes,

this one is probably the most gossip-heavy, slash, batshit crazy story I've covered in ages. I love when we both gossip, ah! Oh my God, there's so much to talk about. This one, unfortunately, is all kind of sad, terrible gossip. Oh. But it is,

it's one of those stories that I really didn't know how to do this until Saoirse was like, I'm gonna take it, like go from this angle and tell it. And I was like, okay, perfect. Cause it's so convolut it. And I was like, okay, perfect. Cause it's so convoluted sometimes that it's like, how do you get all the plot points and plot twists in one thing?

So, Surtr did a good job. This is part one, and then there's gonna be a part two. So, please buckle up because this is a bumpy ride. This is a story of Suzanne Savakis. Here we go, friends. The date, September 12, 1994, in Choctaw, Oklahoma. We start with 51-year-old Clarence Hughes. He walks into an elementary school called Indian Meridian Elementary School, and he pulls out a gun. Oh, boy. He approaches the principal, James Davis,

and tells him he is there to pick up his son, six-year-old Michael Anthony Hughes. He says to James, the principal, I'm prepared to die, so if you don't take me to see my six-year-old son, you can just die with me. Oh, my god. So this immediately I'm sensing a custody battle.

You are on top of things. And wow, look at you. How did you know that? You know, divorced kids just kind of smell that kind of thing. We have that sense. Yeah, talk about gossip. Yeah.

We have that ability to sense it. Yeah, exactly right. So he says, if you don't give me my six year old son, you can die right along with me. I don't care. I'm going to, I'm not afraid to die. So this poor principal guy with no other choice, he's terrified for his life, but also all the kids in the building. Yeah.

What do you do in that situation? Yeah, there's like, is it, is it right to give the gunman their kid, but also if you say no. One child in exchange for the safety of everyone else, yeah. I was gonna say, it's really like that train tracks. Fucking trolley problem, yeah. Yeah, one person or five. Oh my gosh, so he basically does not know what to do,

and he leads Clarence, this guy, to Michael's first grade classroom. So once Clarence has Michael, he not only takes Michael, he also takes the principal, James, into the parking lot at gunpoint. Oh, boy. He forces both the principal and his son into his truck, and he drives off.

And everyone else just kind of watched this unfold and went, oh shit, what just kind of watched this unfold and went oh shit what just happened thank God everyone saw though for a second I was like oh he is no one's gonna know if everyone's gonna think he just took like a principal lunch break and I mean I think some people might have seen it but nobody really knows what just happened I don't know that anyone knew the extent of it at this point. Also it was 94. It's not like you could text someone from the car.

Exactly. And if he was alone in the principal's office, nobody was there. I don't know. So no one had any clue where these guys were headed. And it wasn't until hours later that passersby found James, the principal, alone in the woods along a dirt road. He was alive, but he was handcuffed to a tree with duct tape over his mouth so that he couldn't call for help. Unfortunately, Clarence and six-year-old Michael were long gone. So with a population

of fewer than 10,000 people, a Choctaw was not used to violent crime, much less a double kidnapping at gunpoint in broad daylight. The Choctaw authorities immediately involved the FBI, and according to the FBI, the majority of child abduction cases in the US involve a family member as an abductor, so this is like a perfect example of that. I think a lot of times we see also that it's often

custody related as well. So we have Clarence Hughes taking Michael and that made sense for a minute until they realized Clarence Hughes was not Michael's real father. No. Dun, dun, dun. First plot twist. And there are so many.

I was going to say, did they go to the, did the cops like go to the kid's dad's work and he was just sitting there at his computer? Like, I didn't fucking do anything. Oh my gosh. What are you talking about? No. So the way that we know Clarence was not actually the father is that it had actually recently been decided in court during a bitter custody battle

between Clarence and the state. So Michael had been removed from Clarence's home four years prior following the death of Clarence's wife or Michael's mother, Tanya Hughes. And after Tanya died, the state took Michael away from Clarence. And when he went to court to try and win Michael back, they did a DNA test and realized he was not technically the biological father. That's so sad though. I mean, so far, my understanding is like this guy really loved the kid anyway, despite not having a blood connection to him.

Is that what it sounds like? Nope. Okay. Okay. Okay. Never mind. Sorry. Unfortunately. It sounded like maybe he was playing a fatherly role up until this point and just wanted to have the relationship with the kid. He likened himself to a father figure to this child.

Nobody else really did. Yeah. But anyway, yeah. So he took this child. And then when they looked up who this guy was, they were like, shit, that's not even his, quote unquote, real father. He was not in his custody.

He was not related to him. People who knew Tanya at the time that she was killed, this is Michael's mother, and she had died four years earlier. People who knew Tanya and were friends with Tanya were very concerned about Clarence as a father and were like, if Tanya's dead, we do not feel good leaving Michael with Clarence.

So Michael, for that reason, was placed in the care of foster parents, Ernest and, their names are the the best Ernest and Merle Bean EAN I think about it Merle and Ernest Bean like the wildest. I'm sorry scratching Fanny and her bean Sorry, that's not what I know it is what I meant don't bring Ernest Bean into this. Okay, the little beans. Oh, that's not what I know it is what I meant. Don't bring Ernest Bean into this. Okay, the little beans Oh, it's nice. Okay, so the Bean family who by the way, I looked them up They have actually fostered over 80 children more than 80 children. Oh, don't say that after I made fun of their name

Yeah, I know. That's why I'm saying it in their time They they are high school sweethearts and they had three biological kids and then ended up They are high school sweethearts and they had three biological kids and then ended up fostering more than 80 children. Jesus, good for them. Yeah, pretty cool. So one of the kids that they fostered was Michael because friends and family raised concerns about Clarence raising the child and so they removed him from the home, put him in foster care. And this was shortly after Michael's second birthday. So this was in 1990, he was two. Clarence, like I said, fought to get Michael back for four years, but Ernest and Merle were like,

we don't think this is a good idea. Like we'd rather keep him in our home. We think he's safer here. And that is because when Michael first came to their home, he was, shall we say, a bit troubled. He's two years old. He's just had this very traumatic thing happen that he doesn't even understand yet.

His mother has been, his mother is dead. His father is not trustworthy, and also he's been taken away from his home. And now he's with these strangers. But on top of that, he refused to drink anything but Pepsi out of his baby bottle and It was really hard for Ernest and Merle to like get you know, wean him off of that because caffeine sugar. I mean this is biologically already something he was kind of addicted to He would experience extreme emotional dysregulation.

If anyone told him no or he was upset, he would lie down and start banging his head on the floor to indicate he was upset. He was very dysregulated. His physical growth was delayed for his age. He rarely spoke, so developmentally, he was a bit behind. And when he ever spoke he talked

about Clarence his father so to speak at the time as that mean man. Oh okay. And so Merlin Ernest are like we are not sending you back to that mean man. Yeah. Right and he did have custody like or not custody but visitations and every time one of those visitations occurred, this poor kid, Michael, would just be distraught. He did not want to go near this man. He wanted nothing to do with him. And so, Ernest and Roel were in that tough spot where they legally are required to let Clarence come see the kid, even though the kid is clearly disturbed by it and doesn't want to. And happily, being under this new couple's care,

Michael made tremendous strides. They took away the caffeine, which really helped him health-wise. He began to settle into his new home and he lived with the Beans for four years. And as he lived with them, he began to thrive. They had all these photos they were showing in the documentary. It was really beautiful. He just thrived as a happy and bright little kid. And thankfully, at one point in court, a paternity

test revealed that Clarence was not Michael's biological father. And at that point his whole court case became moot, his parental rights were permanently revoked, and Michael was set to stay with the Beans. Now, the weeks following that decision, the Beans were on high alert because they were trying to go through this arduous process of adopting Michael permanently, and one day Merle is standing outside or on the porch or somewhere where she can see out to the front road. And she sees this car drive by really slowly, this truck. And she calls the Department of Human Services, DHS,

and says, what kind of car does Clarence drive? And they told her and she said, yeah, he's definitely lurking around our property. Like he is, something's up. And the caseworker said, hey, you're just being paranoid. Don't worry about it. But Merle insisted something was wrong and nobody really listened to her.

And they said, oh, you know, things are fine. Just keep going with the adoption process. It was only days later that Clarence walked into Indian Meridian Elementary with a gun and abducted Michael. So that is now caught up to the present where we are finding this principle tied handcuffed to a tree. We don't know where Michael is. We don't know where Clarence is, presumably with Michael. So FBI Special Agent Joe Fitzpatrick takes on this case, and he becomes a big player in this. He's featured heavily in the documentary on Netflix, which is called The Girl in the Picture,

and it is a doozy of a documentary. It's almost two hours long. It is, I mean, it's like watching a fucking M. Night Shyamalan film. Like you're like, what? Everything is fucking plot twist upside down. Like I'm rewinding. Like, did I hear that right?

I mean, it is one of those stories. I cannot believe I didn't know more about this before. So anyway, FBI agent Joe Fitzpatrick, he takes the case. And as he's looking over what they knew about Clarence and Michael, he goes, uh-oh, we were all hoping that M's original suspicion was right, that maybe this guy just loves his kid so much that he went and picked him up. But as he's looking through all the records and looking into this Clarence guy, he gets a sinking feeling that Michael is in grave danger.

Uh-oh. So Joe consults behavioral science experts who say, it's not great news, but you probably have about a week before Clarence quote, gets tired of Michael and kills him. Oh my God. Yeah. But as it turns out, Clarence was not even this man's real name.

Turns out Clarence was not even this man's real name. Turns out Clarence... Damn! I know. It's just like... I hope everyone can keep up here. It's just batch it. So Clarence was just an alias and investigators discovered that this man had many aliases, but his original birth name was Franklin Delano Floyd.

Likewise, what? I think, I don't know, I feel like I've heard that name before. There was another Floyd. Oh, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Is that what you're thinking? Mm. Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Yeah, this one they pronounced Delano and I know that like Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Yeah, this one they pronounced Delano and I know that like Franklin Delano wrote. Roosevelt. Yeah. I think that's right, right? FDR? Yeah. Yeah. But that it's very trippy cause it's like Franklin Delano, not Franklin Delano. Anyway, that's how they pronounce it at least.

So I'm just going to go with that. But yes, he's not the esteemed president, former president. He is this motherfucker. So it turns out that's his real birth name. But this is not the first time he's used an alias, nor is it the first time he has abducted a child. Turns out that in 1962, and I just want to warn everyone, this case has probably every possible trigger

slash upsetting thing, aside from animal cruelty. I think that's the only thing that does not happen in this case. Oh, that's nice. So that's at least so far until part two, I'll let you know. So far, as far as I can tell, that's the only thing kind of missing from this story, which is terrible. So in 1962, he had been imprisoned for the kidnapping and rape of a four-year-old girl. Oh!

Yeah. And when he was sent to prison, he managed to escape, and he was not caught again until he was robbing a bank and was arrested for that, and he was imprisoned until 1972. It is still so shocking to me that someone who rapes a four-year-old girl does not have to stay in prison for long, very long, but here we are. Yep.

Franklin was arrested again just one year later for sexual assault, and a friend posted his bail, and Franklin skipped town before his court hearing, and he had been a federal fugitive ever since and he had been living under assumed names, different aliases, including Clarence Hughes, which is the one he was using now, Trenton Davis and Warren Marshall. So on top of all of his other crimes, investigators had begun to suspect that maybe he had something to do with the death of his wife four years earlier, Tonya Hughes.

And this would have been the mother of Michael, the little boy. So now we're jumping back in time to the time that Tonya was killed, which was April 1990. A few men were driving late at night in Oklahoma City when they pull over to investigate some debris along the side of the road. And it's there that they find the body of 20 year old Tanya Hughes. She is barely alive, but she is technically alive. She's unconscious. She has seemingly been struck by a vehicle. And the fact that they called it debris. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was almost like she was tossed there like trash. It's, it's, it's very

dark, very dark storyline. So they find 20 year old Tanya. She seems to have been either struck by a vehicle or just gravely injured. She's admitted to the ICU, the intensive care unit with an internal head injury, which was causing swelling in her brain. And when her husband arrived, this is Clarence, he told them that his name was Clarence Hughes and that Tanya was a dancer at a club in Tulsa. So Tanya's coworker and her best friend, Karen Parsley, visited Tanya in the ICU.

And I know, are you laughing at Karen Parsley? All these names feel made up. I'm sorry. It feels like she's the next door neighbor in Veggie Tales or something. Oh my God, and the fact that they're exotic dancers makes it so much better. Like, I'm Karen Parsley.

You know? I was not trying to laugh. I'm sorry. Just really caught me off guard. Here's the game. Your stripper name is your favorite VeggieTales character combined with the street you grew up on. Anyway, so Tanya's coworker and her best friend was named Karen Parsley.

And Karen visited Tanya. By the way, I want to be clear. Tanya at this point was 20 years old when she was brought into the ICU. Oh, wow. She's very young. Wow. So her best friend Karen comes in, and conveniently, thankfully, Clarence

was away at this point. He is not at the hospital. And when Karen talks to the nurses, they express concern that they felt like something was wrong with Clarence, with this situation, with Tanya's whole life. The vibe is off. Clarence, with this situation, with Tanya's home life. The vibe is off. Clarence is really fishy. The, the injury she had didn't quite match to getting hit by a car. It just all seemed a little shady. And they said, you know, Clarence is significantly older than

Tanya and he behaves very controlling and very strangely. And they didn't have any real evidence, but they did suspect that he somehow was involved in Tanya's accident. So this is more like the and he behaves very controlling and very strangely. And they didn't have any real evidence, but they did suspect that he somehow was involved in Tanya's accident. So this is more like the nurses are gossiping about this because they don't, they just have a bad feeling, but they don't know what to do about it. And Karen hears this and she's like,

yeah, I think you guys are right, because I also, I'm not a big fan of Clarence. So Karen had met Tanya in 1989 at Passions which is the club where they worked and they were the youngest dancers there so they really connected very quickly they gravitated toward each other. Karen was a college student and Tanya was an avid reader and was always reading about some new field or some new topic and so the two of them became fast friends and just,

I don't know, love to spend time together. Karen also loved Tanya's little son, Michael. And she said he was a smiley, happy baby. He looked at Tanya with total adoration and Tanya was the best mother and Michael was her whole world. But there was a little problem, which is Clarence. Tanya would often show up to work with bruises all over her body, bad bruises,

and Karen knew Michael was abusing her, but Tanya always denied it, and Karen also being very young, felt helpless, and did not know how to intervene. Yeah. And Tanya refused to leave Clarence because she knew she couldn't take Michael with her. Clarence would never let her take Michael and Michael was never out of Clarence's

sight. And so it basically made it impossible for her to find an escape route. And the way Karen described it is that Clarence kept baby Michael under lock and key. She one time offered, hey, why don't we take him to the zoo? And, uh, Tanya was like, no, no, no, no, no, that can't happen. Like we can't take him anywhere. Yeah. No. Wow. Okay. So one day Tanya confided in Karen that Clarence had recently taken out a large life insurance policy on her.

And she was pretty convinced he was preparing to murder her. But she would not leave without Michael. So when Karen found out that Tanya was involved in a mysterious hit and run, she suspected probably Clarence was involved. But unfortunately, like the nurses, she didn't have any evidence. And so that's all she could do is just believe what she believed and

wasn't able to prove it to anyone. Which is so wild when I mean hopefully not a lot of people have to experience this but you know when you're dating when someone when your friend is dating someone who is not good news and you just like oh I smell trouble and I just hope I'm wrong. You And you're just like, oh, I smell trouble and I just hope I'm wrong. You hope you're wrong. Please let me be wrong. I just so hope you're wrong.

Yeah, 100%. That's what it was. And Tanya was so beloved at work. The dancers all loved her. They decided to make the arrangements for Tanya's funeral and gravestone because they felt like Clarence wasn't going to do anything to honor her memory. And so basically they got together, collected money amongst themselves.

These are the other dancers at the club and they put up a gravestone. But they also decide they want to find Tanya's family. They want to tell her parents what has happened. They don't know who her mom is, but they want to find her and let her know. And they just felt like Clarence isn't going to tell her family that she's passed away. So they decided to find her mother. So to clarify, if it's not clear by now, Tanya had passed away from her injuries in the ICU. So she never regained consciousness and she unfortunately passed away. And so because her friends were so devastated and did not believe that

Clarence would reach out to her family, they decided they would track down her family for her. So Karen and the other woman do manage to track down Tanya's mother and they call her to break this tragic news. And the mother says, what are you talking about? My daughter, Tanya Hughes died 20 years ago when she was only 18 months old. says, what are you talking about? My daughter, Tanya Hughes, died 20 years ago when she was only 18 months old. Oh, what?

So it was then that Karen realized Tanya Hughes was not, in fact, Tanya Hughes. What? So Tanya's friends are at a complete loss. They're like, wait, so clearly this is a fake name or she took this name from somewhere and they didn't know what to do. So they put Tanya on her gravestone

and they just left it at that. And then they wrote, I'll always be with you. So while Tanya's friends made funeral arrangements, Clarence quickly tried to collect the payout from Tanya's life insurance policy because of course he did. But the social security number he provided for himself was not for Clarence Hughes, it belonged to,

as we know now, Franklin Floyd. Meanwhile, hospital staff had come to Karen with concerns about Michael saying, "'Hey, we've seen her son Michael a few times and he's not speaking, he's nonverbal, he's extremely withdrawn, he's very disturbed.' And Karen said, "'Oh no, that's not the Michael I know Michael's usually very bubbly, very happy, very talkative. And this is a complete change in behavior for him.

So the hospital recommends that he's taken away from Clarence's care, thankfully. So he's removed from, I guess, Franklin's care. And that is where this four year custody battle began, where he moves to the beans and then there's this whole rigamarole and Clarence isn't technically his father. And then he goes and abducts him from the elementary school. So that's where we are now. This abduction of Michael was national news in 1994.

There were photos of Michael and Tonya in newspapers, magazines, primetime TV, everywhere. This was huge news. And Franklin, as police now knew, was an experienced and skilled fugitive. He's used to being on the run. It'll be tough to catch up to him. He's armed, he's dangerous, and he's hurt people before. So he is not going gonna be easy to find. So investigators hope that if enough people saw pictures

of Michael on TV and magazines, that maybe they would be able to spot him out in public, wherever he was. Yeah. But instead, the FBI received a call about someone recognizing Tanya on TV. A woman named Jenny Fisher calls the FBI, totally out of sorts, and says,

I don't know who Tanya Hughes is, but the woman in the photo on the news, Michael's mother, is my high school best friend, Sharon Warren. Oh! And... Oh my God. Police are like, what?

So now we know that this is not Tanya, And police are like, what? So now we know that this is not Tanya, like her friends sort of got the hang of it. This is not Tanya. But now they have a totally new name, Sharon Warren. And Jenny says, yeah, we went to school together in Forest Park, Georgia. And Jenny and Sharon met at student council camp in 1984.

She said Sharon was extremely smart. She was in the gifted program, student council, ROTC and science club. Her dream. Yeah, let's get this. Her dream was to become an aerospace engineer. That's what she aspired to. She was also very beautiful.

She said that the day she walked into high school, everybody kind of did the turn like, who's that, you know? She was very popular. But Sharon's friends said she always went for the underdogs. And so her friend group, which I think is so sweet, were all the outcasts, like anybody gay, anybody who, you know, openly gay, anybody who felt like kind of different or looked different, she had this kind of ragtag group of friends and a lot of them were interviewed for the documentary. I thought it was really sweet.

But yeah, so she kind of hung with those people instead. According to Jenny, they were the outcasts and Sharon was this sort of light who came into their lives and always made them feel seen and understood and loved. She gave a lot of support to these folks. And then later when they kind of found out more about her, it was extra heartbreaking because it was like she was not getting that love and support for herself, but she was giving it to all her friends. So she was just one of those people that really touched people's lives. Her friend, Lynn Renee Thornton said that she was what made his years in high school good. He said people would call him the F slur and like all these things. And he said she would write him notes and like just was always there to spend time with him, hang out with him, never made him feel

different. But Sharon herself struggled outside of school. She lived alone with her father, Warren, and friends thought her father was very weird and strict and strange. And she grew up in this very strict household where if her friend, Jenny, for example, wanted to call, she would say, you have to schedule your calls to me. You can't call me when my father's home.

Either I call you or we have to schedule it. She was also response, very big yikes. She was also responsible for cooking him dinner every single night. And yeah, when she hung out with friends, he would come and meet the parents of the friends. And for example, when he first met Jenny's family, he went right up to the parents and asked for a loan.

Like he's just one of those guys. And the parents were like, you are not allowed to hang out with this family anymore. Like she can come here, but like you're not going to their house. So Jenny's father was like, this guy's trouble. But one night when her father was out of town, Jenny convinced her mother to let her go to Sharon's house

and spend the night for a sleepover. Okay. This part's rough, folks. So that night, while Jenny and Sharon are changing into their pajamas, they're probably 15, I don't know, in high school, Warren, her father, Sharon's father, barges into the room with a gun, points it at both girls.

He says, what are you doing? What the fuck are you doing? They're like, we're having a sleepover. He says, he kind of chuckles and he says, I'll be right back. No, you won't. And Sharon turns to Jenny and kind of laughs and says, oh, this is just daddy.

He's just weird like this. Like he's just joking around. He's just being silly. And unfortunately, Warren does come back and he tells, he tells Jenny to lay down on the ground and put a pillow over her head. He then rapes Sharon in front of Jenny, and they just do not speak. They just go to bed.

He's still holding this gun, and in the morning, Sharon just gives Jenny a hug and said, Daddy's just like that. I'm OK. You're OK. Just let it go. And asked her not to speak about it. So Jenny is fucking terrified, traumatized, does not know what to do.

She didn't tell anyone what had happened. She just didn't know how to even process it. And she later said in an interview, it was the most painful thing in my life. It changed how I viewed the world. It changed everything about me. Yeah, your entire, I feel like your brain chemistry is especially as a child.

Fucked after that. Oh my God. So in 1986, Sharon receives a full ride scholarship to Georgia Tech. This is her dream school. She got into the aerospace engineer department with a full ride. This is like ultimate top dream for her. She got into the aerospace engineer department with a full ride.

This is like ultimate top dream for her. She was over the moon ecstatic and her friends were thrilled. Her father even took out an ad in the school yearbook and put like a full page saying, you know, Georgia Tech, here I come on a full ride, like to show off. The one thing that her friends thought was a little strange is most parents used baby photos in these kind of ads and he picked kind of a sultry, like almost sexy photo of her.

And so all the other kids felt a little bit off put by that, but Sharon didn't care at all. She was just so ecstatic that she would be going to her dream school to study her dream field. But one day Jenny gets a call and Sharon is in absolute hysterics and tells her, I'm pregnant. The father was her high school boyfriend and Sharon's father, when he finds this out, is absolutely beside himself. And tells her, you're not going to college anymore. You're not going. Wow.

And her friend said, you have to go. This is like your only giant dream in life. Like this is your way out. And she said, I can't, someone has to take care of daddy. And it's me, I'm gonna stay here and do that. She tells her friends, she's moving to Arizona, giving up on Georgia Tech. She's giving, she's moving to Arizona, giving up on Georgia Tech. She's giving, she's moving to Arizona and she's going to have her baby there and

put it up for adoption because she was not allowed to keep it. So Sharon and Warren pack up and leave town. And Jenny never saw her best friend again until she's watching the news years later and says, I don't know who Tanya is, that's Sharon. My best friend. Wow. So Jenny sits down with the FBI in 1994 after recognizing her picture on TV

and investigators say, okay, here's a picture of Sharon with her husband, Franklin, or some people know him as Clarence. And Jenny looks at the photo and says, that's not Sharon's husband. That's Sharon's father. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I'm smiling.

I just never get to get the full full gasp out of them. So it's very, uh, it's very fulfilling feeling to, to shock you in that way. Is that not, you should have heard last night watching this, waking Blaise up going, what the fuck, every five seconds. That's so, I mean, just sick. I mean, like, I don't know, it's just, I don't know, it's so. Yeah, I have a secret.

It gets even wilder. It seems like it can, but it does. How? Oh my God. Yeah, I have a secret. It gets even wilder. It seems like it can, but it does. How? Oh my God, okay. Oh my God. Whoa, I'm sorry. I know.

My brain is- It's shocking. It's like short wire. It like short wires your short circuits your brain. It's like, what? So Jenny's like, that's who I know as Sharon's father. They say, no, no, no, this is her husband. And por que no los dos.

And she goes, yeah, exactly. She goes, I've got stories that prove that por que no los dos. Yes, precisely. Precisely. So it is her father and her husband. So they discover, the FBI quickly discovers that Sharon and Franklin had changed their names in 1989, a year before Sharon's death. And what they did was they took Tanya

and Clarence from tombstones in Alabama. And that's why she had found the grave of that baby, that 18 month old baby that the woman had lost and just took that name. So it wasn't even like she had taken that name on as her own from a gravestone. Right. So they got married under these false names in New Orleans. And from then on, everyone who met them knew them as Clarence and Tanya Hughes, not father and daughter,

but husband and wife. So now investigators know who Sharon was before she became Tanya, but there are still major pieces, of course, missing to the story. Like, okay, well then where were Franklin and Sharon between the time they left Georgia while Sharon was pregnant and arrived in Tulsa? Because Michael was her second child.

Michael was not the child she was pregnant with. The timeline did not add up. So he, Michael was her second child that she had, that who was only two years old at this point. But the first child she had been pregnant with must be somewhere else because was the child was not living with them. Sure. So now they're thinking shit, where's the other child? Did they really go to Arizona to give the baby up for adoption? Like Sharon had told her friends. And special agent Joe said that the best way to predict

what a fugitive will do next is to look at what they've done before because humans are creatures of habit. They will repeat their behaviors and patterns. And he decided if he could understand Franklin's behavior and patterns and talk to people who knew Sharon and Franklin during those missing years, he would have a better chance of finding Franklin and of course, little Michael before it was too late. But we'll have to find out in part two. Girl, no, please don't test me. I'm sorry, it has to be this way.

Christine, that was... Is that not the wildest ride you've ever been on? I mean, what is wrong with people? I mean, it's the sickest ride. It's so fucked up. I don't want people to think that my nervous smiling is me giddy for this information. I'm just...

It's shocking. Sometimes I don't think anything could blow my mind, and then you say something like that whole story, and I go, oh my God, wow, that's insane. Exactly, especially because we've covered hundreds of cases. So it's like at this point, you'd think you've heard it all, or like you'd think nothing can surprise you anymore, but then, yeah.

Wow. If I were an alcohol drinker, I would be pouring myself a stiff one right now. Yeah, and you deserve it. Oh, I have found people, I'm going off of previous comments from previous moments like this, but I have a new fun little recipe for people to try. Oh, OK.

Speaking of drinks, I found a mocktail, which I feel like that's a nicer way to end this than this horrible mystery you've let us hang on. Wait, I love that. Yeah, we can do a new ending bit. Well, I don't know if I'll have one every time, but I've been drinking this one for the last couple of weeks now,

and I'm a big fan, big fan. So if you need a fun summer mocktail, because you know I was telling everyone, everything is like half lime and lemon juice, and that's like and then that like fake alcohol that people put in because I think that's what I want in a mocktail is like no no no so here's what you do you're gonna go to Trader Joe's if you don't have a Trader Joe's near you sucks for you but if you have a Trader Joe's near you they are

currently they're currently selling I guess because it's summer, a watermelon soda, which is literally, oh my God. M's thumbs up, thumbs down emoji just popped up. No, I love that. It's really good. I just bought that recently too. It's a watermelon soda. It's literally just like blended watermelon

with seltzer in it. It's so good. It's like sparkling watermelon. Yeah, watermelon juice. And so you get that they have, and then also what Alison does, because she just happens to have it in her own collection at this point,

some cucumber bitters. And then on top of that, Chur Joe's has this other thing. It's at the end, it's by the checkout area where they have like those stacks of juices on the wall. They have a drink, I know I'm eating my own words here, but I will say there's very minimal lime in it because I know I was saying I hate lime, I hate lime.

This, it doesn't really taste like lime. I'm more in it for the fact that it's jalapeno lime juice and it just gives a spice to it. I don't really taste any lime to it. If anything, I just taste jalapeno, but it's like a spicy watermelon cucumber situation. Wait, that sounds so good. And then like, you can always add vodka to it if you're in a drinking mood.

Yeah, that sounds delicious. It's a great, with a little wedge of watermelon. Are you kidding me? How many parts are we talking? We're talking, you mix them in half and half? I'm imagining it's mainly water. I don't, Alison is, I'm very spoiled and Allison makes it for me because she is the bartender between the two of us.

I'm imagining it's mainly the soda and then maybe like a third jalapeno lime juice and then however many cucumber bitters you want. But yeah, it's very yummy. It's very summery. I gotta find cucumber bitters. I don't even know where to find that. It sounds delicious.

I think I'm slowly, every time I pass a gourmet alcohol store, they always have fun flavors for bitters, and I think I'm slowly buying every flavor for Alison. Oh, you are, that's fun. So, but anyway, people seem to really like that salami and cheese pepper thing I got from Trader Joe's last time. And we were there literally to buy that and then we saw this jalapeno lime juice and I was like, I bet we could come up with something for that. That sounds delicious.

If anyone, they also pair very well together if you would like to have your little pepper situation. Oh my god, they got celery bitters on on this website I think i've said this before but you know celery soda Have I told you about celery soda? Maybe I don't think so. There's it's a dr. Brown's soda But it's it's actually spelled on the soda balls cell ray. I don't know why but it's celery soda And I guess back in the 40s There was I Guess they were low on celery or something

I don't know but at Jewish jellies they started selling celery soda with your sandwich So that way you would get like a bite of celery with your sandwich without them having to what that's so fun It actually tastes like celery. It's really not actually that bad of a soda. It sounds kinda good. It's not that bad. Anyway, fun fact for ya. Wow, that was great. Thank you for pulling us out of the darkness.

That was nice. I love it. It's like our very own after dark, which we're also gonna do. Which you can go listen to. Which if you're a member of H-Round, you can now follow us over there and we will continue to talk about things

probably like celery soda and my favorite watermelon drinks. Well, actually I have some, I feel like we're trying to make the After Dark more similar to the podcast because I feel like people, I don't know. We want, yeah, we wanted it to be something people would be like, ooh, I'm so curious.

So I think I might tell, I don't know, I have some ghostly updates that I might tell on. Oh fun Yeah, so if anyone wants to hear those updates, you can feel free to head over to patreon.com slash at WWE podcast We and that's why we drink clink