And That's Why We Drink - E396 A Curtain Fiesta and a Ghost's Fan Mail

Episode Date: September 8, 2024

It's episode 396 and we're just here to get Christine f*cked up in one of the 40 remaining Rainforest Cafes! This week Em brings us a rootin', tootin' good time with the ghosts of the Red Onion Saloon. Then Christine covers part one in her two-part series on the tragic and mindblowing tale of Steven Stayner. And is Christine the best fake geode saleswoman we know? ...and that's why we drink!Our brand new live show starts THIS WEEK!! Come help us kick off our all new tour in Newark and Tarrytown!! andthatswhywedrink.com/live

How was everyone's day going? He thinks it's going good, bad, or indifferent. Can you agree, Christine? Yes. And? And. And? And? That's... Why we drink. The end. Goodbye.

Sorry, that's a sleeper agent moment where anyone says and. I'm like, that's... I thought you were trying to do some improv with me, so I said yes, and, and then I could not think of literally one more thing. Shall we start, speaking of improv, shall we start with a mind melt? Oh Yeah, sorry. I shouted so loud. I heard it in my own you nothing gets Christine going like a mind Okay, so we do three two one go now though there is a lag so it's gonna be awkward but we could try whatever Okay. All right

three two one lobster oh okay we gotta simplify it uh oh god that's harder than it sounds okay three two one dinner oh I was like do food or dinner and I was like Emma Pryce a dinner damn it dinner and food okay okay I got it okay Dinner. Oh, I was like, do food or dinner? And I was like, I'm gonna probably say dinner. Damn it, dinner and food. Okay, okay, I got it. Okay. Three, two, one, restaurant. Restaurant, see, we got it.

Okay, wait, now, now, on restaurant, this is a bonus point. Uh-oh, what? I don't know this game. On the word being both of us said restaurant, now we have to say the same word next What oh my god, we're not gonna get this. Okay, thank Okay, look at me

Okay, okay, do you know it I Don't know Okay, we'll try and if not then I'll just edit you out and put Microsoft Sam saying it underneath. That's fine. That's fine. Three, two, one. Cheesecake Factory. Oh, thank God.

Okay. I was like, tell me you know. For a second I was going to say Rainforest Cafe, but I don't know why. Oh, that's a good guess. No, that's more you and Eva's thing because I've never been to one. But Cheesecake Factory is the correct answer. So thank God, Microsoft Sam didn't have to step in. I will, it will become my personal goal on this tour.

I'm gonna get you fucked up at a rainforest cafe at some point, we have to find one. Oh, twist my arm, why don't you? It's a dream. I would love, Em, if you did that for me, I would marry you in a rainforest cafe. I would love, and if you did that for me, I would marry you in a rainforest cafe. I would marry you inside the hurricane. We'll kiss under the elephants. That's okay.

I hear they're very dusty. My brother and I did reviews of rainforest cafes and I hear that they're very dusty. I told you the last time I was in a rainforest cafe was at the Mall of America. And it was when Allison was in the literal rainforest. And I was at the Mall of America, and it was when Alison was in the literal rainforest, and I was like, I think I win because mine has air conditioning and food just appeared. You get a front seat to like wildlife. Yeah, dinner and show.

Yeah, you get a hurricane happening right in front of you. I, the way that I'm obsessed with Rainforest Cafe, and I don't feel like this is that far of a, this isn't like that intense of a goal. Apparently there's only like 40 left in the country. I'm like, I think I could go to all 40. That'd be a fun. Oh, I was like, are you gonna open the 40 first one?

Is that what you're saying? No, I feel like that's an easy bucket list. It's like, oh, we travel so often I could probably hit a bunch of them. You know what I just remembered? Somebody gave me, mailed me after we did the Rainforest Cafe on B.C. Sandy, somebody mailed me a Rainforest Cafe mug with my name on it and like some other things.

Like they got me merch. And so now I feel kind of like a fraud because I'm like, I feel like, and for all you Rainforest aficionados, I said fraud, not frog, although I know, you know, they're probably really close when we're talking about Rainforest Cafe. They are. But yeah, I said fraud, not frog, although I know they're probably really close when we're talking about rainforest cafe. They are.

But yeah, I feel like a fraud because I've never actually been to one. So I'm like, I should go and maybe I'll join you on your cool mission. That's fine, yeah. You could be a guest feature at one of them. Maybe I'll just like film the whole thing. I'll be your documentarian.

Yeah, that's, I would love that. I'd love nothing more. Okay. Okay, well just like imagine like Chili's, but animatronics, like if Chuck E. Cheese and Chili's had a baby, that's kind of what it does. Right, okay, that's, yeah, that's what I've heard. And it also is like tropical rainforest themed.

It's a 360 degree immersive experience. Wow, well when you put it that way. I'm just gonna tell you. Okay, well, anyway, what a great start to this, Christine. Hi, how are you? Why do you drink? What do you drink on this fine day? I'm so glad you asked. So I have my, I do have water today for once because I just knew eventually I should probably start drinking water. And I also brought my iced coffee that I made downstairs. And I brought it in my cup that I had a phase where I kept buying kind of pink to purpley blue ombre items.

And then one day, I think it was you and or Zandi, probably both of you said, oh, I like that you're buying all this bisexual stuff lately. That was me. And I went, oh. I went, are you telling us something? Well, I kept being like, this is my favorite colors.

And everyone's like, no, that's what? You're such a weirdo. Anyway, so this is called, so I bought this. And then one day you were like, oh, I love your bisexual cup. And I went, oh my God, how fun. So anyway, I do like it now because I didn't even, I bought it like sort of in a Freudian manner, you know?

Yeah, it sounds as if you, part of you knew what was going on. Yeah, I think I knew. I think everyone else knew, but I think I figured it out eventually. What do you drink and what? Oh, I didn't even say why a drink, maybe because I didn't know I was bisexual.

Because you're a big fat bisexual. Yeah, there we go. That's why. Oh, someone said, I got yelled at by another listener in my DMs and they said that I bully you for being bisexual. What? And they said that I'm being biphobic. So happily, I'm okay with that. What I didn't say is when I saw my cup, they said, what a fucking fugly bisexual cup you have. I actually said, you don't deserve any fucking rights,

actually. Yeah, no, I feel like sometimes our jokes maybe don't land or they sound harsher than they mean to be, but it's because... I mean, you try working with this person. I know exactly. Exactly. Like that's all it needs to know, especially when we're person. I know exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

Like that's all it needs to know, especially when we're up at like 4 a.m. trying to like get to the bottom of a joke that's not even funny and we're like trying to write it into a script and like basically crying. It's like at a certain point, like bullying just has to be part of the formula. It's part of the 360 degree immersive experience. It sure is. In fact, it's weird how I'm always the first one to kind of really get my experience. Isn't it fun?

So anyway, congratulations on being bi. Thank you. Oh, are you talking to that person? That listener. Also to them. I was really rooting for you, because when we started out, when it was you, me, and Eva, I was the only queer person here. And all of you have really...

It's actually incredible. You've really joined the winning team. I'm glad it... It took a while, but you got here. I know, I know. It took a lot of subconscious purchases from conglomerate companies for me to realize who I was. You go to enough bookstores with a queer ally section and it's going to suck your writing. Sorry. Sorry, conservatives. It's only a matter of time. It's the agenda. It's coming for you.

Yeah. What do I drink? I drink an LD today, but I do think in between our stories, Christine, I might switch over to a D Pepe. I'm so happy you said that because I might switch over to a Miller Lite. Wow. I brought one up alongside my coffee,

and I thought, which one shall I choose? And then I realized it was... Sounds like a gross combo. Sounds like, well, okay. That's why I said, which one should I choose? Not both. So I need to caffeinate first, but then after your story, I'll take a little sippy sip,

and it'll get me ready to go for my fucked up side of the story. That's why I got to go to the deep pep. I was like, water isn't going to cut this. It's not going to cut it, no. We need something stronger to get through the end. Well, actually, I know you have to drink your coffee first. I'm going to pretend you've already switched over

to your Miller Lite because I have a saloon story for you today. Oh, okay, wow. You know I love a saloon story for you today. Oh, okay, wow, you know I love a saloon. Before we get into it, everyone has been reaching out that they hope this does not die, so I'm going to make sure I say it. A quick reminder to everybody to please drink some water,

you thirsty little rats, especially the bisexual ones, because y'all are just deserts in your body and you forget to drink water all the time. I know, you listening out there, I know you You forget to drink water all the time. I know. You listening out there, I know you don't drink enough water. OK, and you know who you are. I can see you. You're literally driving in the car right now,

and your full water cup is not being touched. As insane as this. Do you see me? I'm looking at you. Yeah, that's me. Just grab it. Wave to me. Just, you don't even have to drink it.

Just grab it. Just kidding. Now that you're grabbing it, you should probably drink it. So. Drink it. Thank you. Drink it now. But put both hands on the wheel. And, yep, that's.

Hang on. Oh yeah, hang on. Also, someone said, I guess in the last, one of the last episodes, I said something about, and also take your meds, and a lot of people with ADHD came forward and said that that was actually the reminder they needed, so take your meds, please. Thank you so much. Oh my God, I love that.

You know what I do? I have to eat, they needed. So take your meds please. Thank you so much. Oh my God, I love that. You know what I do? I have to eat. I made myself eat with my meds because I'm like, oh, when I'm hungry, no, no, you can't have breakfast. Go get your meds first. And it's like my little rule. I like, what is it called? Like stacking or like habits, stacking?

I don't know. I don't know what the actual phrase for it is, but I do the same thing where I treat it like, like breakfast is a reward. It's like I have to do this and then I get a funnel. I don't know what the actual phrase for it is, but I do the same thing where I treat it like, breakfast is a reward. It's like, I have to do this and then I get a funnel. That's exactly right. Well, I took my meds and I didn't let myself drink anything

until I took my meds. I was like, I'll take my meds, that'll be my first sip today. And then, so my meds have been taken at the early crack of an LD. I thought you were saying the crack of dawn. I was like, it is 11 a.m. where you are, but okay, nice try. Early for me.

Okay, so we're talking about a saloon today. This is the Red Onion Saloon, which love that it's- You know we need merch from that. Oh, they have a shop on their website, don't worry. Oh, they still exist? Oh, I thought they were like didn't exist and I was gonna have to get my cricket machine out again, but I'm still like it.

It's a haunted saloon that has always been, well, not always been a saloon, but it started as a saloon and has been, what's it, when they, after so many years, it's been brought back to its original- Oh, it's been like restored? Restored as the saloon it once was. Oh, how cool.

And they do have merch and they have one of those zip ups I know you like. I meant to say, oh yeah, I meant to say too, I know I texted you because I was like dying laughing but I got the OK Corral merch you sent as a birthday gift. Oh my god, that was months ago. And literally I sent you the note but like like the guy, and you can tell when, you know, when someone has like kind of older senior like writing where they like learn cursive in a specific way, he, and it's kind of wobbly. And he wrote like, processed August, whatever.

And he wrote, so sorry, like been waiting for this to get into stock for months. And so, and then it said like a June order date or something. And I was like, oh my Lord, I got my birthday, because then I was like, well, I know I'm covered this. And then I like looked in our search thing and I realized it was our birthday episode and I went, oh, this is real late.

This is like three months late. I remember I looked up, when I was doing your birthday episode, I remember looking up something and there was merch and I was like, oh, since it's our birthday episode, of course I'll get it for you. Yeah, and I just was like, yeah, totally. And then like never thought about it.

And he, because of the delay, he was so kind. He's the manager, I forget his name, but he included a little shot glass with the OK crow on it. I was like, oh, hell yeah. So it was very- He's a good man. Good service, yes, thank you. Well good, I'm glad you finally have it.

So red onion merch next, okay. The red onion saloon, if you're listening, so red onion merch next. Okay. The red onion saloon, if you're listening, Christine loves zip up sweatshirts. She is size large. Thank you. Oh, hey, anybody listening? No, kidding. I'm just throwing it out there

because I know how much it would, it'd be a fun little surprise. We'll just elevate my day. And elevate your wardrobe, let's be clear. Well, and we need it, I need it. So the red onion saloon, my other favorite thing about this is that it is in Alaska. And here's the reason why I love it.

I'm trying, by the time I'm 35, I wanna have gone to every state. And I think I only have like 10 left. So I feel like in two years, I could do five trips each. And then on my 35th... As your manager here, as your acting manager in this moment, are we... Is there a timeline on the Rainforest Cafe list? Because I feel like that could get in the way

if you're trying to reach all the states by 35, and you're also trying to hit all the states by 35 and you're also trying to hit all 40. We could either merge them and do a map, like lay over where all the rainforest cafes are. You could kind of knock some out, you know, in one fell swoop. I do think the priority rainforest cafes are the ones in the states I have yet to go to. That's what, yeah, that's what I mean. So the one we'll put a map over it and we'll be like, okay, you go to that Rainforest Cafe,

we'll drop the copter right down into the jungle. And then we scoop you back up. You've been to Nebraska, congratulations. So you finance and figure out all the logistics for that. Oh yeah, already did. They're on the way. Did you say something about a chopper? Like a helicopter at some point?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I meant to say chopper. Copter is what I said. That's not a thing. I don't know why I said that. Chopper, you're your way down into the jungle of Nebraska. Actually, Nebraska is on the list. And actually, I have already figured out

on our tour this year, I'm gonna go to Nebraska. Oh, great. Fun fact, I'm gonna- Because we're in Kansas? Is that close? Is it? I don't know. We're going somewhere that is near Omaha, relatively near Omaha. So I'm going to do like a two day thing in Omaha afterwards.

I tried looking up like I have a friend who is from Nebraska and I was like, what's the best place to go? And then I think maybe she has like a love-hate relationship with Nebraska and it wasn't very helpful. So I'm just going gonna have to wing it. So anyway, I will be in Nebraska at some point this year. So that's one off the list. If there is a Rainforest Cafe there,

which I do not think there is. I'm Googling it. Shh, I'm Googling it. Okay. Oh, damn it. I don't think there is one. Ugh! Hey, hey, hey, there's something called

the Rainforest Tree Top Cafe. Okay, well then I'll go there. Is that the same? I don't know. It is not the same, but it sounds lovely if it's a tree top cafe that I imagine that's like a really wonderful view. So- No, no, no, no.

I wanna put you in a rainforest cafe. Okay. This isn't about a view, Em. Right, okay, sorry. This is about completing the list. I see. Okay. Well, anyway, go ahead. If you find one in Alaska, make that obvious.

So okay, the reason that I'm stoked that this is an Alaska story is because I would like my final state that I have to go to, I would like to create a trip for myself as my gift on my 35th birthday of like you did it on your 35th. I did it on your 35th. And so I'm feeling like that one's gonna be Alaska because that feels like the most difficult one to get to. Yeah, that feels like the most out of the way one.

That one feels deserving of like a 35th birthday. Yeah. And Alaska is the one I'm most excited for. And you've been to Hawaii, question mark? I went as a baby and my goal is really to go to... Experience. I would like to go to every state and like have multiple days there where I'm experiencing.

You're not just in the airport. Yeah, I'm currently not touching Hawaii, but one day I would like to. Okay. It's on a bucket list, but right now I've got other places I'm prioritizing, and Alaska would like to be my final place. So, but yeah, so, but I went, when I was like three months

old, that was my first flight was to Hawaii actually, my first airplane ride. Wow! To Hawaii. I was about to say, maybe, so what would you do, say, if Andrew, our tour manager, booked us a show in Anchorage, would you have to can't, would you say, no, I can't do it, I'm saving Alaska for, I'm saving myself,

I'm saving myself for Alaska, Andrew. I'm pure, I'm pure here. I would still do it. I would just, I guess I would just find it, I would just make my 35th birthday a different location probably. In Nebraska. Alaska, Nebraska, kind of the same thing.

Same difference. No, I, well, I don't know. I mean, Alaska's pretty fucking big. I could probably figure out a new, another location. I think so. I think so. Or they have really, my dad took a very fucking expensive ass cruise

out of Alaska. He'd never been on a cruise in his whole life. Then he finds one that's like all she, she fancy. And he's like, I guess I'll go on a cruise. And I was like, okay. But he went out from Alaska and they had the most beautiful like, talk about views. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Well then good to know. I'll take a cruise also. Hey, that'll be my first cruise. I've never been on a cruise. Maybe I'll come with you for the 35th. We could be on the same one that your dad went on. Maybe there's some points to add there. Maybe we'll become billionaires by then. No.

Oh, okay. Wow. We're just really saying anything now. No, what I'm saying is the cruise he went on is fucking expensive and we don't have the money for it. So I said, yeah, maybe we'll make a fucking bunch of money and then be able to afford the cruise my dad went on. Not that he, I wouldn't be clear. My father's not a billionaire, I wouldn't be clear, my father's not a billionaire.

I would probably be going on cruises like that if my father were a billionaire. Anyway, sorry, just got way out of hand. Anyway, this is in Alaska. Okay, the right-hand side is in Skagway, Alaska, which up until doing this research, I always thought there was another A in Skagway. I thought it was Skagaway. Whatever.

Fun fact. You were wrong. It's not. Maybe because I was thinking of Alaska that has the A in the middle. But okay, so it's 1898 and the Red Onion Saloon is built by the founder of Skagway. And his name is Captain William Moore, who cut the wooden planks for the building himself. So he wasn't just founding places,

he was literally building them brick by brick. And his hands dirty, you know? Yeah, he's one of us, one of us, you know? He's like Joe Biden from Delaware, who grew up in middle class, or whatever he always says. That's it. Speaking of Delaware, that's another place I gotta go.

Okay, listen, the list is getting clearer and clearer by the minute. So, yeah, so it was built in 1898. It was a very popular saloon and dance hall. It was actually the best in town. It was like the classiest saloon and dance hall, it was actually the best in town. It was like the classiest saloon and dance hall in the area, which I don't know what was going on in Skagway, Alaska in 1898.

I was waiting for you to say it. Comparison wise, I will say a little quick thing about the history in a second, but it was apparently the classiest saloon, best dance hall. It was also the most, what was the word, elegant, most elegant brothel in the area. So I don't know how classy you can be when there's also a brothel up there,

but maybe that was like what class looked like back then. I feel like that, you know, it's more like a gentleman's club. Yeah, get all your needs met, I guess. So as when I was like, I don't know how many bars there were at the time in Skagway, Alaska in 1898, I kind of do know a little bit because I looked it up. Well, okay.

So it was obviously very popular as a brothel and most of the clientele were local gold miners because at this point in time, the gold rush had started. And I am always thinking about the California gold rush, but there was also at the same time the same time, the 1890s was the California gold rush. 1849 1840s. That's why they're called the 49ers. Oh yeah.

So in 1898 was the Klondike Gold Rush. Oh sure, okay. And so a bunch of gold miners showed up in the area and since all of a sudden a bunch of people were moving into the area, a bunch of bars started opening. So there was some competition and it was still considered the best. Probably because there were naked women upstairs.

It's always like, oh, immediately let's put bar and ladies in like these old towns where it's like, oh, there's men put bar and ladies in like these old towns where it's like, oh, there's men coming in. Well, guess what? We got a supply. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, yeah, with an influx of people like that, it was very smart to put businesses in like that.

It was also because there was an influx of people, there was also an influx of some rabble rousers and the area was a bit of a lawless land. You know, I know Christine loves a lawless land. It just gets me a little hot and bothered. Don't worry about it. It was actually once described, Eskaguay, Alaska in this time period, was once described as a little better than hell on earth. Okay, well, count me in.

Especially because there wasn't like cowboy lawless land. It was more like mafia lawless land, like gangsters. A little out of my depth on that one then. The main gangster in town was of course, say it with me, Soapy Smith. Soapy Smith, sure. Yeah. And he controlled-

Mind meld, Soapy Smith, ready? Cheesecake factory. Mr. Bubble, yeah. So, Soapy Smith, he controlled pretty much the entire town. He had a lot of police under his thumb. He had the newspaper under his thumb. He was in charge of kind of all the nefarious things, all the ill repute was, he was somehow attached to all of it. That feels right though, with a name like Soapy.

Like it sounds like a, like tiny, you know, and then it's this huge guy. You know how they do sometimes opposite names, like a guy named Soapy, you'd be like, oh, that's funny. And then you'd get like fucking- I'm not as clean as you think. Your head chopped off for making fun of his name or something, you know.

Exactly, like I'm sure you couldn't even say his name and then it would be done for you. If you say it three times, the mirror, the shaving cream in your mirror starts soaking up. The sun's just come out of your eyes. So just to give you an idea of the influx of people that showed up because of the gold rush at this time, there were about, once like the peak of the gold rush, there was about 100,000 new miners that came into the Klondike area. And at the time, Skagway originally only had

a couple hundred people in the area and now it had over 30,000 people living in this town. Oh geez, okay. And only 8% of that population was women. Whoa! So- Sausage part, sausage fest. Sausage fest, yeah.

I don't even know how to say it, it's so embarrassing. I am constantly embarrassing myself with the use of... Penis party! Penis party! English is not my first language in case anyone's forgotten, so don't... I said something recently to, I said something to Allison recently

because we were trying to figure out curtains for one of these windows. And at our last place, we really struggled with putting curtains up because the drywall was so thin. And so I was trying to say, oh, remember our last curtain fiasco. And I could not remember the word fiasco to say my life. I kept saying curtain. I kept saying curtain fiesta. And I was like, well, you remember the curtain fiesta. And Allison was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Are you sleepwalking? What's going on?

That sounds like something you would say, like just in your sleep. Oh my God. Anyway, we've only lived here. We haven't lived here for that long, but curtain fiesta has become quite a regular statement. I can't wait to be invited to the next one. The next curtain fiesta?

Yeah, I'll let you know. I'll open my stapler to make sure your curtains stay up this time. Only fiestas over here. So yeah, only 8% of over 30,000 people were women. So slim pickings for men, but also that meant the women, there was very few women and they were, all 8% of them were probably at some point, you know, getting hit on and catcalled and all this. The second you see a woman in a town with only 8% of them were probably at some point, you know, getting hit on and all this.

The second you see a woman in a town with only 8% women, I'm sure they're just getting totally mauled. Plus, at this time, there weren't many jobs women could do, first of all, at all. And second of all, do and get paid well, right? Oh, right there to make a living, sure. So sex work was an easy option a lot of times. And I think a lot of women would even come to this area knowing that it was slim pickings

and that they would definitely make money. And then when they made enough, they could just leave. And it was just a high turnover rate of sex work here. In Skagway alone, there were 300 women regularly serving men passing through. And many of those services happened at the Red Onion Saloon. So the first floor of the Red Onion Saloon

was the saloon and dance hall itself. The second floor was the brothel. Is brothel the appropriate, should I be saying like bordello? Like what's the word I should be saying? I think brothel's okay. I mean, I think it's an outdated term, but that's just because it's an old concept.

I don't know if there's, no one's brought up a new one. But you know what I mean? Yeah, I feel like that's just kind of an old timey word, but I can look up if it's, you know. I don't think it's offensive. I just don't know if there's a better one. I would say brothel probably. I think brothel's fine.

I mean, especially when we're talking about like, sex work from back then when it was considered a brothel. You know? Yeah. Like now, you wouldn't be like, I'm going to the house of ill repute. But like, you know, back then I think it's probably fair. A lot of the blogs I saw were definitely using older terminology and they were like the whore house.

Yeah, the whore house. Yeah, yikes. Yeah, that's when it gets like, well, let's rethink that. So okay, so the first floor was the saloon dance hall, second floor was the brothel. And on the second floor floor there were 10 rooms, they were called cribs, which yuck, that we were infantilizing it from the beginning in 1898. It's kinda creepy.

But maybe crib was just another word for room back then. I mean, we say crib like, welcome to my crib. Yeah, that's true, that's true. I think I'm just conflating it, and I'm like, oh, we can just call it a fucking room. It doesn't feel right, but whatever. And so there were 10 cribs used by the working ladies and to pay for their services, men had to pay,

do you wanna guess how much money people paid in 1898? For a sex worker in- For 15 minutes. Oh. Two dollars. Five dollars. Oh, wow. I don't know, I don't know why I say wow.

I don't like I have no concept of what it would have been. Although I feel like if they were gold miners, you could just kind of like flip them a nugget and be like, you know, what's it do with this? So it was $5 for 15 minutes and the women got 125 of the cut of the $5. And $125, I looked up, I did not put it in here at some point. Well, I didn't look up what $125, like how much that would be today, but I did look up the average wage of women at the time. The best wages that women made in 1898 in that area was like $3 max.

That was like, you've got it made is $3. For how much? For what day? For a day or for a month? Or a year? No, no, no. Just in general, a woman's wage, if they did any work, if they made, I guess $3 a day, then that was like considered good money.

So the fact that these women were making $125 was like kind of, yeah, for 15 minutes and you could add up how, so they were making pretty good money. I understood. Okay, cool. I think it was $3 a day. Now I've twisted my own words, but $125 was not a bad thing. What about that deal? And it was, I mean, for that time, it sounds like a good chunk of change for a woman to be making, I mean, unfortunately.

Yeah, and it was, so it was $5, but 25% went to the, they had a bouncer, like a security to make sure that they were kicking men out if they tried to overstay their welcome. Sure, you gotta pay that person. And then like half of it went to the madam who was orchestrating all this. So 125 was a pretty good deal.

And then the rest went to the giant red onion that ruled over all. They had to make their sacrifice every day. Well, I thought I put it in here somewhere, but I guess I didn't that I must have put it somewhere. I'll find it and then I'll, but I guess I didn't that, I must have put it somewhere, I'll find it, and then I'll go, oh, I already said that. But I also did the math of,

if they're doing 125 for every 15 minutes, and they were expected to do a 12 hour shift, then that means that in one day, they could sleep with up to almost 50 men, it'd be 48, 15 minute sessions. But I'm sure they're not like 15, 15, 15, 15, right? Like you'd have to like get cleaned up and like get- You have to like take a break, like go have lunch.

Yeah, I imagine probably like one an hour or something. Maybe, I don't know, because here's the situation. Here's, they did often have sessions back to back to back because here was how men chose their services, how they chose which women they were going to sleep with. Uh, they chose it through the doll system where along the bar downstairs there were 10 dolls, like little like dolls on display, each looking similar to one of the women.

What the fuck? If the doll was lying down, it was unavailable. Shut up. And if the doll was standing upright, they could select one of those dolls. You are kidding me. Who was currently available. Once he goes upstairs and they do the deed,

he pays the woman and the woman would drop the $5 or the gold or whatever down piping that would go into the floor. Basically she would drop it from her room and then kind of like- The laundry chute? Kind of like, yeah, like a laundry chute. She would drop it through a slot in her wall. It would go down and it would land

into like this deposit box behind her doll. Oh my God! So that way they knew, okay, put the doll upright again. She's back, back and ready for more. So it was back to back. You could like quite a system they've got going, which has to be so weird just knowing like, Oh, five seconds ago, you were like, it was what I was thinking. Like, wouldn't you want them to get cleaned up a bit, but whatever. Yeah. Maybe,

maybe they would like kind of sneak the time, but that's how the bouncer would know like, hey, it's been 15 minutes, why haven't you dropped the money down? Yeah, fair point. So, anyway, that was how they did it. And not only was this one of the finest bordellos or brothels in the area, like I said, it was one of the classier saloons, although business very quickly fell because this whole town essentially blew up because of the Klondike Gold Rush. And only like two years later was the Gnome Gold Rush and every person left. Oh, shit. So the Red Onion Saloon was only massively successful for like two years. That's crazy.

And then everybody left to go to none. It's like when businesses had that unfortunate timing of opening like right before COVID and it was like a very like hands-on business and then it was like tanked immediately. It like shot up and then shot down. And you had no way of knowing, you know, in advance. So that's what happened here.

Wow. I think they were hoping gold miners would stick around for a little bit. But so after two years, um, this is like my favorite little, it's like part of the story nugget. I, I, I was trying to avoid it. Oh, okay. Well, I'm going to drag you back. I was trying to be coy. So just, this is just a fun fact that has nothing to do with the story, but I thought it was so funny.

So the business shut down after two years, the people who ran the business were like, holy shit, we've invested so much money in this. What do we do to make sure that people still know about us, even though everyone's already left town? How about we, what if we opened up shop instead, even closer to the train station, that way people who are still traveling and passing through

will see our place. And they'll still come here. Right, maybe they're not here for gold mining, but they're just traveling through? Yeah. Okay. So maybe if we move closer to the train station and what they meant was literally move the building.

Oh. Not just move. Right. They were like, let's move this whole building. And they put the building on logs. Shut up. Had men and a single horse push it. That horse, the poor horse.

So for the horse's sake, they only pushed it four blocks. But when I'm thinking of like a manager, I'm like four blocks, that was worth it to you? Yeah. I mean, I guess that one guy laid the bricks himself or whatever the fuck. So he probably was feeling very... Couldn't you just put up a sign four blocks down the road that said, keep going four blocks

and you'll see a really cool saloon with naked women? Naked women this way, you know, it doesn't take much paint. Okay, but here's the part that I love the most. So they bring it four blocks down the road, they park the house, and then I guess they've already taken it off the logs. And then they realize they put the house, they parked the house. And then I guess they've already taken it off the logs. And then they realized they put the house,

they landed it backwards. I knew it. I was like guaranteed they did it backwards. Holy shit. And they were like, we're not doing this again and making the horse walk in a circle to rotate the house. So what they didn't said is they- Also with logs, like you can't really turn it, you know?

With logs you're just going up and down. You're probably walking longer than four blocks just to get a full circle. Yeah, you'd have to do like a giant circumference around the whole town. That's so true. So what they did instead is they literally sawed off the front and the back and then just nailed them on the other side.

This is how I put up curtains. This sounds exactly correct. This is how I do it. I literally just said to Allison, I was like, I'm reading this part of a story and like I've never heard a more Christine thing in my life. Oh, so you already had this thought. Okay, I was like, wow, this sounds so familiar to me.

I was like, in my mind, I'd be like, no, it needs to be perfect. So I'm gonna go through the rigmarole of like actually rotating this whole thing. But Christine would say, let me just cut its face off and then staple it on its butt. Let me just cut it in half real quick. I'll just cut in half, don't know.

No one will even know the difference, it's fine. The best part is I have a feeling someone said no one will notice, but guess what? Every single cut line is still visible today in 2024. Yeah, because I decided to DIY it. And I'm like, I don't even know how to use a saw, but I'll figure it out. I feel like the wood is all like,

not even in the right way. It's just like splinter. Everyone just splinters when they walk inside. There's a draft in every room because the fucking face of the building isn't meant to be there. Yeah, I'm so glad that the real me is finally being understood and appreciated.

Not appreciated, but at least... Not appreciated, but known. No, not appreciated, but known. And that's all I can ask's to be loved is to be known That's so much. You're welcome. Thank you for all of the really insane things you do So anyway, then so now they've done like the whole face flip surgery on this house That's rough and then it's still tanked. So after all of that, it didn't be it didn't stay a saloon They were like, well, maybe we should have just made

that fucking sign. Maybe we shouldn't have cut the front door off and maybe people would have been like, that looks like an operating business. We didn't cut its butt off. Maybe we would have been somewhere. So anyway, because it's stopped being a saloon very quickly, it became a whole bunch of other things.

This was like 50 years into the future, but World War II came around and it became an army barracks either before or after that in different times. It was a bakery, it was a laundromat, it was a union hall, it was a gift store, it was a TV station, it was a telegraph station and it was a, and it was a pharmacy. So it was a, it was just a historic building at that point that was just kind of constantly having storefronts. And in 1978, the property was bought by Jan Rentmore.

And she's the one who turned it back into the Red Onion Saloon. And the upstairs, she turned into a brothel museum. Oh, I was like, she turned into a, oh, museum, got it. A brothel ellipses museum. Yeah. No, but I guess it was A brothel, ellipses, museum. Yeah. No, but I guess it was, she wanted to keep it as original as possible.

And obviously you can't keep a real brothel anymore. So, or I don't know, but she was like, let's just honor what it was and make it a museum. There's people who do that in their own way. Yeah, I think that maybe Jan wasn't looking to do that. Jan wasn't feeling it. So I wonder if maybe was there, I don't know this answer.

I'm kind of saying this just out loud, but I wonder how she would have known how to make it look as it was. Like did her granddad used to like go there and he could describe the pictures? I wonder if the town has like historical documentation. Like maybe somebody drew pictures, you know, maybe back then there were newspaper articles about it. to describe the pictures. Yeah, good point. I wonder if the town has historical documentation. Maybe somebody drew pictures.

Maybe back then there were newspaper articles about it. If it was as fancy as they say. Yeah, it could have been newspaper articles, pamphlets, posters, I don't know. Yeah, that's cool. Or maybe, I feel like some places too, even if they don't have all the details, they just lean into what it would have been like,

what historians say it would have been like, and make it as close to what a historic brotha would have been, I don't know. Yeah, luckily some things, picture-wise, she was able, she didn't even have to really restore. It sounds like, this is the way that I understand it, even the wallpaper upstairs was still original. Really?

So, I don't know. Army barracks didn't take that down. That's amazing. Either it's original or it's like identical to the original. But then we go back to the first question of how did you know what the original looked like? Good point. So, some things upstairs she was able to keep.

And I think she might have a bit of, like, an antique collection or something, because it sounds like there's a bunch of items in there that either come from the brothel time period or the 1898 time period. I'm so sorry, Gio's having a nightmare, and he's, like, yelping, and I'm like, I don't... I don't want other people's dogs to be like... Okay, no worries.

Gio! It's okay, bubba. Oh, was he having a real nightmare? Yeah, he like yelps in his... He's like, and it makes me very sad. And it was like really loud. I didn't know if you could hear it, but it was like really loud because he's in the bathroom.

Anyway, sorry. He's sleeping in the bathroom? Is he drunk? No, it's just cold on the tile. He likes to like sleep behind. When I'm in here, he likes to sleep in that bathroom. His chewy tummy. In case I walk him out. Oh, what a good boy. No, there's an AC vent. Literally. He's you there's an AC vent on that goes Underneath the bathtub onto the tile and he literally like wedges behind the bathtub and just lays in there

taught him well I'm so excited. I'm gonna see geo soon and I can't wait to have the best nap of my life with that little man. Oh, we're going to be so... Because last time you came, it was so quick that I came home and he smelled you on me and was like, Oh, where's Em? Like looking for you. And I felt terrible. I felt terrible. Yeah, we really gaslit him because I showed up for maybe five minutes

and we kept saying I'd be back and then I never came back. Yeah, that was sad. Wow. I can't wait to hold him while he holds me and we both fall asleep. Oh my God. In the blistering cold. In the frost, the first frost. Okay, so she made this brothel museum and upstairs has either original wallpaper or wallpaper that looks like the original. There's a bunch of period artifacts up there. A lot of the rooms look as they did. So, I mean, she really is doing a good job

of preserving the history. One of the period artifacts that she has in there is an original silver dress that she found in the floorboards. Is that not so cool and scary all at the same time? That's so creepy. I love it. And so that's an example of the fact that there's a lot of trigger objects around here.

Oh, for sure. And anyway, so it's a saloon. It's also because the saloon, it's a restaurant and fun fact, the, uh, employees still dress as people of the time period. Oh my God. I think I've got that right. That's what a lot of sources said. And also on their menu, their pizzas are named

after madams of the brothel. Wow. So really honoring them. They really are. The place still hosts live music events and drag shows, which I love. Oh yeah. Never occurred to me that there are drag shows in Alaska. In my mind, Alaska's so removed.

Like, I just like, I don't even know what's going on over there. But like, it makes me happy to know that there's drag. Love that. Love that. And it's open because it's Alaska and everything's probably very seasonal there. It's open from April to September.

Makes sense. They're, it gets dark. Last, last fun fact I have for you is that they host a ghost and good time girls walking tour. Hello? Which allegedly comes with a souvenir garter. Huh? Or if you don't want to take the long history tour,

you can get a tour they call the Quickie. Pfft. Ha ha ha ha ha. And I saw this on two different blogs that at some point there was a sign that said, $5 for 15 minutes, just like in 1898. I was about to ask if it was the same price. So anyway, well done on the marketing there.

Do you think they still have the dolls? I wonder. I did see something about how there's oil paintings in the restaurant and each of them are supposed to represent one of the dolls. Oh, interesting. But I don't know if that was like, it felt a little like someone was maybe reading into the art. Like artistic liberty sort of.

Yeah. It sounded, because it sounds like it's a bunch of oil paintings of madams and maybe they're associating it with like- Oh, I see. The 10 dolls. I don't totally know. Apparently also in the restaurant, which I think this should be a health code violation,

part of the antiques in the collection, in the restaurant of all places, a part of the collection is a bunch of vintage 1890s chamber pots, AKA bed pans. Like just hanging above you while you eat. So like, I'm kind of like, oh. Ah! Whatever, okay.

It's for the vibe. Yeah, I'm into it. So now for the ghosts. Now for the ghosts. There's three ghosts here. I'll say the two that are kind of like not as popular first. One of them is a former madam named Diamond Lil.

I was looking at they're not as popular, which makes them sound like they're, they're not part of the Mean Girls group. Well, they're, well, I don't know if she's a mean girl, but she's definitely like the it girl for sure of, uh, of the red onion saloon. She is the it ghost. So, she has a ranking. So diamonds Lil is a former madam here. And I don't know why they think it's diamond Lil.

I feel like they just kind of gave her a name because it sounds like it could just be any sex worker, any spirit of a sex worker or just of like any woman kind of hitting on a man. People, especially men report feeling someone stroking their legs and hearing whispering in their ear, they smell perfume. And so it's just kind of understood that

they're trying to get them all razed up. But so do they know that there was a diamond who worked there or did they just like totally make that name up? So there was a woman named Diamond, I don't know if her name was Diamond Lillian Davenport, or Lillian Davenport, and Diamond was her show name. I don't totally know. But someone that they named this ghost after,

and they assume it's this ghost, she was real. And she... Okay, got it, got it, got it. So they're just kind of assuming that's who that is. And they're saying she died, like she grew to old age and died in the 70s. And when she died, that's when spirits started appearing in the saloon. Okay, so that wouldn't track then. Yeah. So I think that's why they think it must be her. So, yeah, people just, men just generally feel like someone's hitting on them, or like they feel like the sensations, you know?

So that's Diamond Lill. Then there's the ghost of a malevolent male spirit that they have named John. And I thought like, oh, because he's like a John. Because of the... Oh, right, yeah. But apparently that was the name of a bouncer that they had at this place.

Yeah, he's probably not happy with all these people in there. Yeah, and he's apparently a very oppressive energy. Many people think he's the previous bouncer since he seems to not like men. He also seems to really not like anybody. But he has been heard pounding on doors upstairs, which would be him kicking guys out. He also throws doors open, which makes sense. He pushes people downstairs, which maybe he thinks you're spending too much time upstairs and you gotta get out of here. Yeah, you're like, put your pants on and go, yeah.

And apparently he was a stinky boy because people still smell his body odor when he's around. Oh cool, I love that he brought that with him to the afterlife. I was gonna say, imagine you die and you're remembered by your stank. You know, that's crazy. I almost like to think that he did that on purpose

so that he's like, I'm more effective this way. Like I can get people out of here, you know? You know, actually that's, I never want to be further away from someone than when they're stinky, you know? Like clear out a room, you know? Yeah, exactly. Sometimes you walk past someone and you just go,

oh my God, like I just, so I think maybe John was one of those people. If he smells this bad in the afterlife, he must have really not smelled good in life. In the time, yeah, probably not. Then again, it was 1898. I don't know if deodorant was even a thing. Right, like who smelled good?

But also then that means like the ladies, the working ladies deserve an extra round of applause because of deodorant and soap wasn't a thing and it was a town full of men who weren't being encouraged to clean. No, I always think that. I always think about that. It's such an alarming thought,

especially because they didn't have proper contraception and stuff. And so that plus a lack of hygiene is just horrifying. Well, so yeah, so he pushes people down, he smells bad, he opens doors, he pounds on doors. He will apparently like bull rush people and you can feel them come, something come past you really aggressively.

Items will move, apparently very expensive drinks will go missing, Christine's future ghost. That's just me right now. I'm like, it was a ghost I think, it smelled bad. So amazing that you'll lose your social security card in a bar, but you know where every fucking drink is. I do and I'll never lose it. Some people have...

That thing's glued to my hand. My social security card is on its own leash. The drink is in your hand, and the social security card is kind of like wet stuck to the bottom of the cup. Yeah, it's my coaster. I was like, I didn't want to ruin your bar, so I used this as a coaster.

I didn't want to ruin the nice stain of wood. Some people have seen his face reflected in the mirrors and it's gotten to a point where he is so nasty that apparently a bunch of tour guides refused to even talk about him on tour. Oh, he's really getting worked up in there. I don't like that. If people, if you talk to one of those tour guides

and you ask about him, they will like sidestep any questions about him. They'll be like, anyway, let me redirect you to over here. Yeah, yikes. So that's John. And then the main ghost is Lydia. And the Red Onion Saloon sounds like it's like probably one of the more haunted places in Alaska, at least in Skagway, Alaska.

And Lydia is the most famous ghost there. So she is that bitch because she's the most famous ghost there. So she is that bitch, because she's the most famous ghost in town, at the very least. Ooh. So she's a former sex worker. They don't actually know if there was a Lydia. The name Lydia has just kind of been like orally passed on

as the building has come to be whatever it is now. And it's, the story goes that she died from contracting syphilis because this place was not clean. Yeah. Or they say she hanged herself in her crib because they don't know why, but another theory is that, oh, she hanged herself because she had syphilis.

Or was pregnant or, I mean, or something. Syphilis is involved in her thing. Oh, there is syphilis, okay, pregnant or I mean, or something. Syphilis is involved in her thing. Oh, there is syphilis, okay, okay. Because when people have seen her, they say that, I didn't look this up, I probably should have, but people when they see her full body apparition, she's got something going on with her face

that I guess is very similar to a symptom of syphilis. Oh, why? So the even that got- Like late stage syphilis. Well, that's terrible that that got brought into the afterlife too. This other guy smells bad. She had to bring her syphilis with her? God. Well, that's terrible that that got brought into the afterlife, too. This other guy smells bad. She had to bring her syphilis with her? God.

Yeah, that's a great point. Man, give these people a break in the afterlife. Like at least let them be cured of any ailments. Right, you'd think at least. Well, so she, I guess, had some sort of late-stage syphilis that was showing on her face, and that's why people think that if she was real, she must have hanged herself because now that she,

she's lost her looks, she has lost her job and she can't afford to live anymore. It's a whole dark spiral. That was very dark, yeah. So people see her as a full body apparition with the condition on her face. That's pretty common. People also see her as a full body apparition with the condition on her face. That's pretty common. People also see her without the condition.

So I don't know what's going on. People see her in a long dress, a long dark dress. Maybe it's somebody different. That's a great point. It could just be another person. Yeah. Like maybe there was just somebody who looks kind of similar in a dress

and it's not her, I don't know. Yeah. People say that she appears often as cold spots, but only in those cold spots can you smell lilac perfume. People see and hear her walking around upstairs. People have seen her peeking around upstairs. People have seen her looking down the stairs and people have seen her gliding down the stairs.

So she really likes these fucking stairs. She likes those damn stairs. She, I guess, I mean, if most of your time is going up and down those stairs to like invite a man up, you know, so. Sure, true. Yeah, you'd be doing that every day. A lot of residual energy. Think about like your fucking squats, like your leg muscles though.

Oh yeah, you'd have glutes of steel. Half your job is going up and down stairs. Oh my God. And in all those frilly outfits. Oh, yeah. In heels? Oh my God. No air conditioning, forget it.

Also, I wonder if they ever, which you probably would have said if they did, but hear like the clinking, you know? Cause I feel like that would be such a residual sound, the clinking of dropping money down into the- Oh, that's so, yeah, like a- Hypes or whatever. I wonder if they ever hear like that clink coming from the wall.

Cause I feel like that'd be such a residual, constant sound. Well, you know what I was thinking? I was like, why isn't anyone reporting the sounds of sex? Oh, that's true too. There's so many things you could be experiencing that are a little more alarming. If this place was open, let's do some quick math.

I'll do it. Okay, so if there was- Don't yell at me, it wasn't my idea. If there was up to, without breaks, 48 men that one woman could sleep with a day, and there were 10 women, that means 480 men were being serviced a day. That times 365 for a year,

and it was open for two years. Are they open on Flag Day though? Arbor Day is out for sure. So that means in total, if someone was working around the, if all 10 women were working around the clock every single day for two years, there could have been up to 350,000 men who got serviced at this place. Which obviously that number is like exaggerated because there were a lot of circumstances.

Well, I imagine there are a lot of repeat customers as well. But that's at least up to 350,000 instances of sex that residualy something should have been captured, I would think. You'd think that something would have made it through. You would hear a bed rockin', you would hear something. But on top of that too, that, every single one of those instances, they'd have to throw money down the thing.

So that would also be happening at the same time. I'm surprised that, yeah. Wild. Maybe people do hear sex noises and they're just like, oh, that's just somebody Yeah, maybe someone just like in the other room going to town right now. Yeah so Anyway, she has been seen all over the stairs as I mentioned She's also been seen running into the madam's room, but then when they check the room

It's completely empty as you have known with mr. Whaley. Yes. Oh, wow Actually, there was one night where one of the employees got really freaked out because he heard something pounding upstairs, which would have been probably the ghost John. And he called the police thinking someone had broken in. And when the cops got there, they saw someone running into the madam's room.

And when they opened the door, no one was there. Ooh, creepy. I love that she's still like lingering. I know, but also that means like, do you think those instances are connected where like it's one story being played out? I, you know, I was wondering, because I was wondering if the banging was just that woman

who was trying to get into the madam's room or something, like banging on the door. Oh, interesting. I don't know, but it sounds like she just ran right in. So yeah, I don't know. Well, people have also seen her, this is precious. She has been seen walking around as if watering plants in the building. I feel like the first few times you'd be like,

what is she doing? Like, it's kind of like a weird gesture, like with your arm, you'd be like, what is she doing? Well, and she's, so usually when they see her watering plants, she's like watering. It's so weird because she's a ghost. Oh, but it's like existing plants in the space. Sometimes and sometimes she's watering nothing as if it's her own plants. So she can see both.

So she's like bisexual. I don't know. She gets it. That is crazy. She can see our plants and hers, I guess. They should put a fake plant up and see if she knows the difference, you know? Interesting. Like if that's just like, oh, cause it's plastic, she doesn't see it or like-

You know what they should do though, is wherever they are constantly seeing her watering a plant that isn't there, they should put like the Lydia plant, you know? Or a lilac, a lilac. A lilac plant, oh, Em, that's beautiful. And then also like- Get me Skagway, I'll tell them.

Get Skagway on the horn. Eva, but like also, I bet, I mean, this is probably just cuckoo bananas of me, but like, I feel like if there were a ghost watering my plants and I put a plant there, I feel like it would probably thrive. I don't know. So, people often, like the staff who are meant to go water

the plants will realize that their plants soil is already wet. See, oh my God, she's like still working. That's crazy. I know it's like, she's like, this is a job I would much prefer actually, just watering plants. Yeah, I think that's like the retirement job she deserved.

Yeah, she's like, I'm just checking on things. I don't wanna have to do anything else. Yeah, maybe she's just living out her retirement now. She just sounds like all my friends were there just like, leave me alone with my plants. Yeah, I'm a plant lady now. I'll do yours while I'm here. I've already got the watering can.

Here's a, what do you call it? Propagate, here, just take this seedling. Here's a little root. But yeah, so she's seen walking around as if watering plants. And then that makes me think, are there ghost plants to ghosts? Where like, how come we can only see her and not the plant?

But then maybe it's because she had a soul and plants don't, but I don't know. I don't know what the... Oh, Em, that's deep. Now all the plant people are coming for you. Yeah. Plants don't have souls. Apparently plants can, they scream in pain if you hit them with the right frequency. Did you know that?

Yeah, I did. What about trees though? Those feel more like they have a soul. Interesting. Wow. I really wish you had your vape pen right now. Um... Oh, this one? Okay.

Obviously, I do, just in case. Well, so she has also been seen, like I said, in a long, dark dress, going down the stairs. People have reported feeling her caressing their face. Oh. And in her room, people see, like, white blurs, shimmering lights, weird orbs, and sometimes her reflection in the room, people see like white blurs, shimmering lights, weird orbs,

and sometimes her reflection in the mirror too. And one staff member actually said, this is a quote from them, if you don't acknowledge her, she can make the rest of your day a little bit difficult. She's probably like, seniority bitch, I've been here since 1898. Like respect me.

At least you can be fucking polite. Yeah, I have put in more work arguably than any of you here, and I've been here longer. Do you see the snake plant? Why do you think it's so fucking tall? I'm doing your job for you on top of everything else I already did here, so you're welcome. It said, if you don't acknowledge her,

she can make the rest of your day a little bit difficult. We have that big safe at the back door downstairs in the bar. An employee came in one morning trying to get the money out of the safe and the damn thing wouldn't open. Then she realized she forgot to say good morning to Lydia. And the moment she did, the safe opened and she never forgot to say hi again. Oh my God, Lydia, that little bee, she's standing in front of the safe like, nope, uh-uh, not till you say hi.

She was like, I know the code, just say my name. I love that she's just a girl's girl. She loves her plants and she loves attention. And that's it. That's it. Then she'll go away. It's so easy. Like she's so easy. God, so low maintenance.

And she's also a girl's girl because another time there was a guy being disrespectful to his wife while they were eating and his chair flipped out from under him. Oh, hell yeah. And then a shoe print was found on his shirt later as if she was like Virginia flag, like just standing on him. Oh my Lord.

Another time a cook who was playing music too loud and I guess a bunch of like bartenders upfront were like, how do we tell them to shut the fuck up? This is like kind of annoying. And they never had to say anything because his iPod flung itself off the shelf, disconnecting it, and then three jars, one by one fell off the counter to get his attention.

Oh, I thought I was gonna say to get jam all over his iPod. I was like, oh, cool. It would be fun if they did like the disappearing act where like the iPod went missing and then it just ended up in a solid jar of jam. Inside the jar, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. People have also reported yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. People have also reported hearing a woman's voice,

lights flicker, I guess the light fixtures sway on their own, items end up in strange places, wine glasses will move on their own, although I know that's Christine. And then the final thing is that they have like a piano that they close and lock up every night, and it will still play even though it's closed. Ooh, oh, it's closed.

Ooh, oh, that's creepy. That should not be, unless there's a little mouse in there. But that should not be happening. So since she is the most famous ghost at the most famous haunted place in this town, people have heard about Lydia from all over and sent her fan mail. Oh my gosh.

This girl, I'm telling you, all she needs is attention. It's not that hard. All she needs is a TikTok account. She's thriving. Now that's something else. Apparently, this is the last thing I'll leave you with, is that the staff read her fan mail. That's beautiful. I love her.

I love her so much. I truly, I just can't get enough of her. She is that girl. I want to, knowing that they read it aloud too, makes it so much extra special to send her a letter because you're like, I know she'll hear this, you know? Yeah, apparently some people will send like teddy bears and they'll leave them out for her and stuff, so.

That's really sweet. If someone could send a lilac plant and request that it goes to where she's always watering plants, that would be great. That's a great idea, Em. Oh my gosh, what a great fucking story. Anyway, that would be great. That's a great idea, Em. Oh my gosh. What a great fucking story. Anyway, that's the red onion saloon.

That was really good. I was excited the second you said red onion saloon. I was like, this one's going to be for me. I just want it. Can you imagine if that was boring? I'd be like, yuck. Yuck. No, nothing boring about the red onion saloon.

Your luxurious locks are getting some highlight treatment with the lighting. Oh, it's sun in. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Oh, no, I haven't. I just went to the beach and put some lemon juice in my hair. Oh, it's sun in. I thought you were saying it's sun in out or something.

I was like, no, I have not heard that because it's not a thing. Do you remember sun in? That really changed my life when I was 12. Yeah, I have not heard that because it's not a thing. Do you remember Sun and that really, it changed my life when I was 12. Yeah, but you're not actually using Sun in, are you? No, it's just like- Oh, I was like, that's so fun.

Is that back? Like I bet you urban outfitters sells that, you know? I'm sure they do. Actually, I think they probably do. You know what it actually is, is because, so I am currently, obviously, as you know, in the new house and we don't, The studio has yet to even be built. And, um...

So, right now, we're doing... I made basically a plunger fort, and there's a blanket over me. And so, this is... This over here is where the blanket is covering the light, and here is where it comes out. It's like, ah! Ah! I'm sending you a picture, because as I went to go pee, I found Gio in the spot we were talking about earlier.

Oh, the monkey. So I took a picture so that you know where your nap location is the next time you're here. It's wedged between a bathtub and a wall. And you know that section was actually probably once so dirty and he's just rolled around it so many times, it's actually probably the cleanest spot of your house.

Yeah, it's just probably a collection of dog hair, to be honest. Oh, he looks, you got him in his little sleepy- I did kind of wake him up, I felt bad. Oh, he has those little sweepy eyes. I gave him a treat just to make up for it, so. You know how when you wake up, we've talked about this before,

but you come back from the beyond and you're like, what year is it? Yeah, oh yeah. Who am I? He looks like he was going through it in the beyond. He was having bad dreams. So that little monkey. Oh my gosh.

All right. Dazzle me. I'll try my best. This is a story I've actually been wanting to cover for years, and I've gotten many requests to cover it. And as I was kind of going through my phone and like looking at what I had done so far with it, I realized I had screenshot a bunch of suggestions like years ago from people, like DMs and stuff

that I put in an album and have really, you know, cut around to, but a lot of those were requesting this story. So I'm excited to finally be bringing it. It is the story of Stephen Stainer. And I want to add that there was a documentary that came out as a docu-series, I guess, on Hulu in 2022. And I watched it back then. And I remember thinking, oh boy, this is a doozy. I'll have to cover this someday. And then just never got around to it. I watched it again, and it's still quite chilling,

and it's a great, it's a well, very, greatly, it's a very well-produced docu-series, so. So you watched it back then too, though? Yes. It's interesting that, I don't know, it's, I, no, I don't, I don't really know what I'm even saying, but it is comforting in a weird way to know that you're still affected by stories the same way

after all this time, instead of being jaded and like, oh, it used to be scary and now it's not. Yes, no, it's still deeply upsetting. Woo-hoo! I'm not jaded. But at least the people can know that it still rattles you. It still rattles me for sure. And this one is quite a doozy. I will get to it, but this may be a two parter M.

Oh, Christine. I know, I know. Okay. So we start with Kay and Delbert, cause why wouldn't we start with someone named Delbert? Okay. Delbert is Stephen's father. His name is Del.

He went by Del. So Kay and Del, Stainer. They knew from the start that they wanted to have children and build a family together and ended up with five kids. They lived in Merced, California in the 70s. They lived on a street with a bunch of other families, you know, very middle class, like all the families that were friends and kids ran around and played outside all day, just very classic 70s, what you picture 70s, Northern California style, or I don't know if Merced is in Northern or Central, but it's somewhere in the state.

So all the kids ran around together and being groups, they were all friends. There was this like really very, very strong sense of community among the families there. And it was very idyllic, which of course, when I'm covering a story and it starts off feeling very idyllic, we know where this is going. So Kay and Del did their best to raise good kids, especially for the time, you know, it was the seventies. So they taught their children to always be respectful of adults and be obedient and, you know, not realizing that that can really get you in trouble. Ruffle feathers and feathers conform or was it, well, trust a grownup observe. Oh yeah. Respect authority, respect authority. Big time, big time. And we still struggle with that, you know, or at least I do. And so the answer was always yes. And the way that, you know, Kay described her kids,

she said some of them were more kind of rebellious and, you know, more chaotic, but some were very like, by the book kids. Sure. And Steven was more of a by the book kid and he really took his parents lessons to heart. And Kay said she thinks that is what ultimately got Stephen into trouble is that she had taught him to respect your elders and what did you say? Respect authority.

Yeah. Obey authority. Obey, yeah. So Stephen was a very attentive child. He was always wanting to help around the house. He was always wanting to do things to make his parents proud. Of course, that makes just this whole thing just sadder. And unlike other boys his age in the neighborhood, he was very gentle. He wasn't like a rough housing type of rough and tumble type kid. like a rough housing type of rough and tumble type kid. He was just very trusting, very naive, just a very sweet kid. So on December 4th, 1972, everything just goes wrong.

So seven year old Stephen is at school and he's waiting for his mom to pick him up. This is like out of a fucking afterschool special, okay? She's at the hardware store, she's running a little bit late. And Steven's like, well, I guess I'll walk home. And because it's the seventies, the school's like, okay, bye.

You know, a seven year old can just leave. Yeah, it doesn't matter. And so he just walked away from the school without calling anyone. Cause his mom was running late and that haunts her to this day, you know? But he starts walking home. And when Kay arrives, so sorry,

let me get back to her for a second. So he leaves and when Kay finally arrives at the school, she's a little bit late and Steven is gone. And of course the faculty in their like bell bottoms, I assume were like, ah, he peaced out of here, you know? I don't know, go find him. It's like, yeah, man, he just kind of wanders. You know how, that's crazy. I don't know why I'm assuming that. He's a rolling stone, you know, I don't know, go find him. Yeah, man, he just kind of wanders, you know, that's crazy, I don't know why I'm assuming that.

He's a rolling stone, you know what I mean? We are in California, I don't know. So she drove straight home and did not see him at home, he wasn't there, so she thought, okay, well maybe he got caught up with some friends and went with them to go play outside like they always do. So she didn't quite panic yet, but a couple hours passed and Steven still wasn't home.

And when she went out and asked all the neighborhood kids, all the families next door, nobody had seen him since school had ended. So, Kay immediately called the police and the police searched the neighborhood, assuming Steven was just at another kid's house or playing somewhere outside, but was not there. And when they brought in their search,

still no sign of Stephen. So soon they start realizing bad news bears were pretty sure Stephen was abducted, which... It's just hard because it's like, you want them to be like, hurry up, but you never assume right that like yeah Also back then like I feel like it was so much I Feel like today. It's very

quick and easy to to jump to the conclusion of like oh something really bad has happened because I haven't heard from them in like 20 minutes, but like back then I, I, I wonder at what point it took a parent to realize that they should start worrying because there weren't phones or there weren't at least like cell phones. If you were out playing in the fucking forest with your friends, like Winnie the Pooh, like no one's going to- Right, like building a tree house out there. Like you're not-

Like if the only rule is come back when the street lights come on and like, and they left at nine in the morning from school or whatever then like you have like a million hours in my mind I don't know the math you have a bunch of hours before you should even begin to panic It's a day. It'd be like let me on find my friends by 9 15 I'm panicking like if they're not if they're in the woods No, but for real like it wasn't a concern. And I forget which podcast I listened to one recently where they kind of described it like,

oh, there was no concept of stranger danger quite yet. You know, it wasn't like, people didn't assume necessarily the worst of people, especially like well-dressed, well-groomed folks, you know, like you can't teach your kid to trust them and look up to them. Well, the PSAsroomed folks, you know, like you can teach your kid to trust them and look up to them. Well, the PSAs for like, do you know where your kids are? That wasn't until like the eighties, right?

Right, exactly. That was like a direct result. Well, I don't know a direct result. I don't know a statistician, but I'm not a statistician or a statistician, but it feels like it was kind of a result of like this kind of surge in the 70s, fear of like serial killers in the 70s and stranger danger became a thing. And so in the 80s, it was like, satanic, everybody's satanic, everybody's stranger danger,

like, keep your kids safe. Drugs are going to rot their brains. You know, it just, this fear mongering started. Yeah. Yeah. And the seventies were a three year time. At least that's the vibe I get from stories like this where it was just unheard of that you'd even be worried if your kid walked home alone at age seven, you know? I see that meme every now and then where they talk about the, for those who don't know,

there used to be an ad on TV around like 10 o'clock at night or it was like eight o'clock at night. And it would come on as a commercial break and be like, do you know where your kids are? Which like the fact, the meme is like the fact that TVs had to remind parents to like check for their children. They'd be like, look around with their martini like,

huh, oh. But yeah, it was like, make sure your kids are home at night and all this stuff. But- Or like, are you sure they're at Jenny's house? Maybe they're doing the pot, you know? Maybe they're with a boy getting pregnant. But I feel like the, but yeah,

I think it was probably just more commonplace at the time to just not care. Cause well up until that point, well I guess after the seventies people started, like we were just talking about started wearing, but at the beginning of the seventies, before all these like serial killers had like this big heyday, I feel like it was just like, oh, they're missing.

They're fucking, they're 11. They'll figure it out. Like it was- They ran away. They don't like you anymore. They ran away. What? In certain areas, I mean, I like little kids

are like taking the subway to go to school. So I think like when you're in middle school and you're missing, it's just like, oh, well, you clearly have- They can handle themselves, right? You clearly have a different plan. Like you'll figure it out. Yeah. You're probably at your eight to five job. Yeah. He's in the factory. well, you clearly have- They can handle themselves, right? You clearly have a different plan. Like you'll figure it out.

Yeah, you're probably at your eight to five job. Yeah. He's in the factory. Don't worry about it. No, I used to run around all day without, I mean, we didn't have cell phones when I was little and we would run around all day and we would literally just knock on random people's doors

like selling Girl Scout cookies or selling fake geodes. It depend on it on the day. And I was selling fake items to, I was selling rocks, let's be real, I was selling rocks to strangers and I would just ring the doorbell and the old man would answer and be like, what do you want?

I'd be like, would you like a geode? And he'd be like, no. And then I would try to sales pitch him. The way that we were definitely the last generation to like not have find my friends and like tracking our children. If my mom knew that there was a time period where she'd be able to track me, she would have built the time machine herself and came here and raised me. I should have dragged you by your ear into the future.

But no, it's wild that you really just, it was commonplace to just not know and just be like, well, I hope everything's going okay. Ours was always just home by dark, home by dinner. it was commonplace to just not know and just be like, well, I hope everything's going okay. And then... Ours was always just home by dark, home by dinner. Yeah. So anyway, I... I... All this to say from my earlier statement of like, I wonder how much time had to pass for them to actually start getting worried.

Yeah. And you think too, like, he's seven, right? So he's even younger than... And he's the... He's not the youngest, but he's not the youngest, but he has older siblings. So while they're out and about with their friends and stuff, if the seven-year-old's still not home, I feel like that's when you start, when the other kids come home and Steven's still not home,

I imagine you start to get nervous, right? He's seven, how long could he be gone for? Where could he possibly be? So after a few hours, they suspect that perhaps this has been an abduction, especially when they heard like he walked home alone. So pretty quickly, the story broke nationally and they plastered Stephen's face all over television,

flyers, magazines, newspaper. This was like a very sensational story. His parents were on all the news shows. They were doing interviews. They were begging the public for any information that would lead to Steven. Um, apparently like in the docu-series, Kay talks about how people acted during this time. And like, let's just say the real wackadoos came out of the woodwork because like people

would call and like just make up information for the hell of it, like calling tips that were just fake. One woman told them that she knew, told Stephen's parents that she knew with certainty that a man had dismembered Stephen and put his remains in a sewer. Oh my God. Like why would you even think to say that to somebody?

Like what an unhinged thing to do. And cruel. And very cruel, unbelievably cruel. And speaking of cruel, the opposite, allegedly, is what this person was trying to get at. This one guy confessed to killing Steven and told police where he had buried his remains and they got the like dig around, they looked and excavated.

There was nothing there. Eventually figured out this guy lied and they said, why would you make that up? And he said, well, I just wanted to give the family closure. Huh? What? And also yuck to want it, like, to then give yourself the savior complex of like, I really helped them out.

100%. And like, for what? So you can spend your life in prison? I mean, I don't know. I assume this guy probably was already in prison. I don't know. It just seemed so weird. Like, why would you even do that?

But whatever, people never fail to shock me. So- Disgust you? Disgust me is a better word, yeah. So some of the stories about what happened to Stephen were so tormenting, like, hmm, maybe that your seven-year-old was dismembered and put in a sewer, that Kay and Del sometimes sent

their children to stay with relatives, like with family, because- So they could just cry. Yeah, well, and also they didn't want to stay with relatives, like with family, because they- So they could just cry. Yeah, well, and also they didn't want them ever overhearing. Oh, yeah, okay, obviously. Especially the littler ones who were even younger than seven.

They don't want them hearing the police or anybody coming and saying, "'Yeah, we heard this one tip that his head was removed.'" He doesn't have his head anymore, yeah. Yeah, so they had to send them away to just get out of the, you know, space. That makes sense. I was thinking like just so they could have their own meltdowns about this.

I imagine that's probably part of it. And I know that they've talked to, they've talked to the sibling. Well, we'll get into why this story is so detailed. But basically, the dad kind of lost it. Like he really had kind of a... a breakdown about all this. And his kids said, you know, they'd never heard him cry, and now he was crying constantly.

Just like, really, it just flipped their whole family life upside down, you know? Yeah. Also, like, I can't imagine, especially in the 70s, when, like, God forbid, men have emotions. And to be crying, like, and then you're like, it's almost like that cycle of like, now I'm crying because my kids are seeing me cry and I'm crying because now they're scared. Yeah, it's like you just now-

Just constant sorrow. And it feels like it was just turmoil, like a nightmare. And so they would send the kids away every now and then to just like get them out of the situation. And meanwhile, you know, they're getting these leads, which half of them are, well, probably most of them are false leads, or at least fake, but some of them are even blatant lies. And so after all these leads start drying up, the news circuit kind of moves on, right? Like, they just have other stories to cover, hotter topics, more recent stories. And so Dell and Kay, even though they did whatever they could

to keep their son, Steven, on people's minds, the world kind of moved on. And like I said, Steven had two younger siblings and they really struggled to understand what was happening because, you know, they're so little, they can barely grasp day-to-day things anyway, let alone like somebody abducting your older brother. And his two older siblings, or yeah,

his two older siblings, so he was a middle child, would always tell the young ones like, don't ask, because if they asked what happened to Steven, then the parents would get distraught, and the older siblings basically said like, we don't talk about it. And so it's just trauma in different ways for the whole family, right?

Oh, my God, those poor kids grew up, like, just wanting answers and not being able to ask. And just feeling, like, so confused and scared, right? Like, I mean, the fear must have been there, even if they didn't know why or what had happened. Something bad clearly had happened. Or wondering if it could happen to them. Right.

Because they don't even know what happened to Steven. Exactly. And so there was just a lot of fear amongst the children. And to be clear, I'm not saying the parents did it wrong or what, there's no way to avoid. There's no right way to get through that. Yeah, and I imagine there's no way to avoid

just compounded trauma through the family if something like this happens. But so, Del and Kay, they coped in their own ways. Kay was able to kind of remain optimistic. Like, she kept that hope alive that they would find Steven, you know. And she knew she had to kind of keep it together for her other kids. For two years, she did not leave the house unless somebody else was home in case the phone rang. And so she would not even go to the grocery store unless somebody were planted at home waiting for the phone

because she was like, just in case. So that's how she lived for two years. And meanwhile, Del, her husband was already mourning. He had kind of accepted that Steven had died. He was going through the stages of grief, and his family had to witness this happen. He would drive down rural roads sometimes with the family in the car, and he would look for upturned earth to see if there was a fresh grave where his son might be.

He was in the worst possible case scenario in his mind. He was looking for- Grieving and hyper-vigilant, and- Exactly. He was looking for a dead- Also trying to keep it together. He was looking for his son, but assuming he was dead and grieving his life, it just was, like, all very, very, very messy.

Another thing he would do is if a car passed him on the road and there was, like, something in the back seat, he would follow that car, thinking, like, maybe this is the abductor. Well, yeah, the paranoia. Stevens remains somewhere. I have to find out. I won't be able to live with myself if I don't find out. And so this kind of like took over a lot of the family, you know,

kind of a gray cloud, I guess you'd say over the family. Obsessing over like maybe it's him at every turn. And it's like the kids kind of had to just follow along because that's, you know, the dad led the way in that way. And he would cry, like I said, very often. And his children didn't know how to comfort him because of course, how do you know that? And they didn't understand what to do when adults are sad.

You know, and it just all makes my heart hurt a little bit. So Kay and Del, they were able to lean in on each other despite like how differently they kind of viewed the situation. Maybe that's why, maybe because they like both had conflicting views on it that they were able to like hold it together for the family, I'm not sure. But as the years passed, they kind of were able to cope. And she even got Dell to start kindling a little hope even to say like, well, maybe we'll get answers, you know? And so he kind of processes grief and they started to kind of piece things back together.

So that's kind of the backstory. Now we're gonna do a little, we're gonna get in the time machine with Linda and we're gonna go for a couple of years. We're going 260 miles away. We're heading to a town called Comchi, California, 260 miles away. There's a middle schooler named Dennis Parnell

and he's living just like a pretty average preteen life in this rural area of California. Again, we're still in the seventies and it's a remote area, redwood trees, you know, you can picture like hippie kind of cultures coming in. You can smell the incense from a mile away. He's smelling patchouli from here. Like as an example, in the docu-series,

they talked about how people would like just climb a redwood tree to put a TV antenna on top so they could get like basic TV. Okay, dad. I know. It was very funny. It was like just one of those very small rural towns that hadn't quite hit like the technology age, you know, and they were like kind of still kind of hippies in that way. Dennis spent a lot of his time outdoors.

He ran around with other kids his age and there wasn't it was the same idea where there was not much supervision. Kids could kind of just be out and about. And there wasn't even though there was much supervision, there also wasn't like that much trouble to get into. Like there wasn't like a huge, you know, illicit drug scene or anything. It was mostly just that they were kind of... There's just a lot of climbing redwood trees. Precisely. Precisely. And one of his friends later said, we did whatever we wanted and our

parents just didn't worry about us. Another friend said we were, he was free, we were all free. Like we just lived out on the land, you know, just after school, we'd just go out and play. Winnie the Pooh. Winnie the Pooh it, you know? And so Dennis's friends could tell he had somewhat of a strained home life. He lived with his father, Kenneth Parnell, in a remote cabin.

He would come to school and his friends would notice that he had very old clothes that weren't washed very often. His shoes had holes in them. He never had socks that, you know, he could wear with the shoes. Some kids at school teased him for this, but he still managed to make friends because he was a very kind kid and he was fun to be around.

And some parents actually thought kind of the opposite that Dennis was spoiled by his dad because Dennis would smoke cigarettes and drive a car, although he was only allowed to drive it down the block and back, so it's not like he was going on joy rides. You know he was bragging it up, though, to people. He was like, oh, this car, oh, this bad boy?

I just coasted that bad boy a whole block. You have no idea. And his dad's like, get back here. And he's like, I don't know who that guy is. Don't worry about it. So yeah, so some parents were like, that boy gets too much freedom, you know. But his friends actually disagreed and they said,

they described like the kids at school, their families would be basically, they would divide people like classification into hippies and straights, you know, like the hippies are like the kind of woo woo, whatever, freedom. Like straight edge, is that what it is? The, the straights? Yes, yes.

It was like straight edge. They're like the straight edge ones. They're like the buttoned up, you know, more strict white collar folks. And so they described Dennis, his dad is very much a straight. Like he was not hippie type. He was not happy goat. That's what I say about my dad too. That's what your dad says about your dad.

So anyway, Dennis was very much in that same boat. Like he was pretty, he was considered a straight as well because even though he was allowed to smoke cigarettes and stuff, he was painfully shy until he really got to know someone. He got very good grades in school and was very attentive. He was well-liked by his teachers. So there wasn't really that rebellious streak that maybe the neighbors had, like, thought they picked up on.

But sometimes Dennis would go through these, like, patches where he'd be really depressed, hashtag relatable. Mm-hmm. he would cry quite a bit. And he would, when people asked about like his home life, like he had a girlfriend who was interviewed and like, you know, if she ever asked like about his home life and he would basically say his mom didn't even know he existed and he lived alone with his dad. And once his friends even pooled their change, so and brought Dennis to a payphone to say like, hey, like let's call her up and tell her, you know?

And he said, no, I don't want to. Another time Dennis started crying when he was out with his friends and he just said, I want to go home. And they're like, okay, like we'll walk you home. And he's like, that's not what I meant. Wow, just heartbreaking. That's because they didn't know Dennis Parnell was really

Stephen Stainer. How did I not see that coming? That was beautifully said, Christine. Wow. I tried to keep it on the DL enough. But Stephen Stainer had been abducted by a man named Kenneth years, years prior. And back in 72, Stephen was walking home and Ken Parnell and another man named Irvin Murphy pulled up in their car, stopped Stephen, asked if his parents would be interested in donating to their church. And because Stephen is such a good kid and thought, well, yeah, my mom loves the church and would love to donate. He said, yeah,

my mom does support the church. And they said, all right, well, we'll bring you home to talk to her, hop on in. And he hopped into the back seat of the car and went with him. That was also a time when people really would just bum rides from anyone, regardless of your age. Like it was like not that insane to just get a ride from a stranger in town. It was-

No, if your mom didn't come pick you up, like why not hitch a ride, you know? Especially in a small town and you've been taught that like people from church are safe, right? Like why would you question it? And so he gets in the car and when they pass his street, he tells them, hey, that's my street. But the men say they're going to call his parents

and tell him he's staying the night with them. Oh no. So he's kind of just like terrified, but he doesn't know why or what's happening. And so he just has no choice but to go with him. So Irvin left and Stephen stayed at Ken's house. And the next day, Ken told Stephen, oh, you're actually, your parents want you to stay

one more night at my house. And then one more night in another. And eventually Ken told Stephen, oh man, I actually ended up getting permanent custody and you need to call me dad now because your parents, they're not really interested in having you back anymore. You, they have five kids and they just felt like you were too much. So I'm going to keep you here, but you know, don't bother. They're not interested in getting

you back. So at, okay, I think you'll answer these later. So tell me to shut up. But as a seven year old, did he not know his phone number and like secretly try to call at any point? No, they basically told him. I mean, I think he was probably strictly supervised at first. Like, I don't think they would have let him get near a phone. Sure. I mean, he's seven and he believes grownups. And so they tell him, man, we just called your mom and she does not want you to come home. Like, he just fully believes that.

And he's seven. He doesn't really know why. But, you know, they can easily manipulate him and say like, yeah, sorry, it's too bad, but we'll take good care of you. My other question is, which you'll probably answer, is do they think he miraculously forgot about his parents? Do they think Seven was a young enough age that he doesn't remember,

or do they know he's still aware he was kidnapped? So do you remember when I said he would cry about missing his mom and that she doesn't even know he existed? Yeah. He had just been fed this story that, like, they just got rid of him and didn't give a shit.

So he believed it. He fully believed it. Yeah, absolutely. And so when they said, like, let's call her, he's like, no, I don't want to. Like, it's not gonna do anything. She doesn't want me anyway, you know? Like just fully believed it.

Has to be, in hindsight, when all this gets, you know, quote resolved, it has to be maddening to know that he could have just picked up the phone at any time. So there are a few where it's almost like he tries and then doesn't quite get there. Oh my gosh, so sad. Yeah. So Ken basically told Steven that his parents just didn't want him anymore and his new name

is Dennis and that he needs to call Ken dad and that this is his life now. And you know, he talked about it and said like, it was just too scary. Like he was just scared. He was scared of this man. Like he didn't want to argue back or fight him. Like he just, he didn't know what was going on, but he was scared. And so he did try to leave once. He walked down this rural road until he was tired

and scared and his mom was telling the story and like started like choking up because she was like, he tried to come home, but again, they're 260 miles away. And he's seven. And he walks down the road in the dark. And by the way, the last time he walked alone down the street, something terrible happened. So he's walking down the street,

he just has no clue where he is, no idea. And of course has never been prepared for a situation like this. And so he just turned back and like kind of just had to get used to it. So over the years, as he kind of grew up and realized what you were saying, Em, of like, did he ever realize like maybe this was a lie?

He did, he started thinking like, okay, well, this was clearly a story to manipulate me. But he also had the second kind of thought, afterthought of like, even if I go home, like, it's gonna be so different. It's been years, like, I don't even know if, like, I have a life here. It's almost like he just got transported into a new life and wasn't even sure what it looked like to go back.

What's that, what's that quote we both hate? The devil you may know or whatever. Oh. The devil you know is... Anyway, it's that, yeah, this might be uncomfortable, but at least this feels normal. I don't know what's on the other side of that door. Right, it could be worse. So maybe I should just not ruffle feathers and be fine.

Exactly. And he's still living in fear of this guy. I mean, this guy is like totally unhinged, obviously, who takes a child off the side of the road. Um, and by the way, he's sexually assaulting him regularly, so like on top of being his quote dad, he's now like, you know, being sexually assaulted by this man.

And so, you know, you have to just imagine in this almost prisoner situation, like you just have to make the best of what you have And so when he's allowed to smoke cigarettes and have friends, he's like, well, I guess this is my life I guess I yeah, I guess I can live with this for now I'm surprised that they even let him have that kind of freedom as a kid I think that was more as like a oh, isn't this great that you get to stay here? Your parents would never let you smoke cigarettes

and drive the car, you know? I think it was almost a control thing. Look how much freedom we give you. Like just a mind fuck, you know? It's almost like giving him a little bit so he'll never question for more. Lengthen the leash a little bit just to be like, you'll stay here.

Look how lucky you are. Don't question things. Exactly. So Ken noticed how comfortable Stephen had become You'll stay here. Look how lucky you are. Don't question things. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So Ken noticed how comfortable Stephen had become in Comchi, all the friends he had made. And he was, Ken became very concerned for good reason that Stephen would confide in a teacher, in a friend. You know, he had already kind of hinted at it, but he thought, Ken thought, this can't be, we got to get out of here. So basically,

he uproots Stephen from this home that he's finally created. And they moved to another rural town and Stephen basically, his life just closed around him. Because now instead of a house, they're living in a remote shack. Stephen is no longer allowed to do extracurriculars at school. He's no longer allowed to spend time with friends. He's basically like suddenly isolated because I think the older he got, the more Ken was worried that he would take it upon himself to like leave or go find answers, you know,

or go call his mom. And so he just stopped trusting him and decided, no, you have to stay basically like shacked up here. Now that Stephen was a teenager, Ken also decided he wanted a child to replace Stephen. Uh huh. Because Stephen's getting older? Correct. Okay.

So he takes Stephen out to help him lure a young boy into his car. Ugh. out to help him lure a young boy into his car. But Stephen intentionally sabotages every single attempt until Ken is like, you know what, fuck it, you're not coming along. I'll find another recruit. Leave Stephen at home and gets another teenage boy, Randy Poorman, to help him abduct another child. So one day in February 1980, Stephen gets home from school and there is a five-year-old boy named Timmy living in the house suddenly.

Oh, God. And how old is Stephen now? He's a teenager, so I don't quite know... Is he old enough to, like... He would probably be, like... Drive? 14, 13, 13, 14? Okay.

So not quite, no. 13, 14, I mean he probably can because it's the 70s and he drives his dad's car around, but I don't think he has access to a car or anything like that. So Ken had abducted Timmy while he was walking home from school over 50 miles away in Ukiah, California. And Stephen, like talk about his fucking heart sinking when you walk in the door and you're like, oh my God, I sabotaged every attempt and he still abducted a child and brought him home.

Also think about like the flashbacks of your own kidnapping that you have to witness. And like, and also not just the flashbacks of the original kidnapping, but the flashbacks of like the first time you were assaulted and like knowing it's about to happen to witness. And also not just the flashbacks of the original kidnapping, but the flashbacks of the first time you were assaulted and knowing it's about to happen to him. You know full well with way too much detail what's about to happen to this other child.

And it's not at all his responsibility to save this kid, but it's also, he also, I'm sure, felt obligated to do something. But who do you tell? And if you tell, are you gonna get hurt? Is the kid gonna get hurt? Like, so many questions. So yeah, Steven's horrified.

And as he's like looking at this kid, he realizes, I can't let him, kind of like what you said, I cannot let him go through what I did, because I know in excruciating detail what this kid is about to suffer through. And I can't let that happen. So he becomes, Steven becomes determined to escape. So for two weeks, Stephen makes sure never to leave Timmy alone with Ken because he at the very,

very least wanted to protect the young boy from all the sexual assault he had endured. So at the very least he was like, I want to shield him from that. On March 1st, Ken was working a night shift and Steven was like, this is my moment. He's not home, I'm gonna seize this opportunity. He grabs Timmy, he just says, come with me. And in the middle of the night, they flee. They managed to hitch a ride and Steven held Timmy on his lap all the way back to Ukiah.

They go all the way back to where this little boy's from. And they find a police station. Steven walks in and says, "'This little boy is named Timmy. "'I think his family's looking for him.' And one of the officers told Timmy, "'You know, we've been looking for you for a long time.' Then they ask for Steven to identify myself.

And he says, "'My name is Steven Stainer.'" Holy shit, wow. The police must must be like, what the fuck? They just told Timmy, we've been looking for you for a long time, presumably like a couple weeks or days. Meanwhile, like this kid who's been missing seven years walks into a police station with another missing kid. It just was like, talk about sensational.

So he says, uh, my name is Stephen Stainer, I'm 14 years old and I've been missing for seven years. And- This guy's fucking incredible. Yeah, he is a hero. He is a hero. So back in Merced, Kay and Del are asleep when they hear, remember this is seven years later,

like they have processed much of it, some of it at least, they have kind of gotten into a rhythm of living life without Steven. They're asleep and a police officer knocks on the door at 3 a.m. When they answer, the officer says, "'We're here about your son.'"

They ask what had happened to Kerry because their oldest son Kerry is in college and they're thinking, "'Oh no, like did he get into a car accident? "'What happened?' And they say, "'No, like did he get into a car accident? What happened? They say, no, we're here to talk about Steven. And at this point, Kay collapses because she thinks they've found his body. She thinks, oh no, the worst has happened. Steven's dead. She collapses. They say, no ma'am, your son is over at the police station in Ukiah

and he's a hero. And she's like, what? Like this is the last news they were expecting. And Kay and Del then learned that Steven had saved not only himself, but five-year-old Timmy. And Kay had been following the subduction of Timmy in the news, so she knew about Timmy. And he goes, oh, not only is Steven back, but he brought Timmy with him, the other boy that's missing.

I mean, talk about pinching yourself. Talk about the absolute best case scenario of the wildest plot twist. A cop could have told you about your missing kid. For sure. And so the Stainers want to go to Steven right away, but officers are like, oh, he's still being questioned. You have to hold off.

However, they let the media go into the station to talk to Stephen. So Stephen was interviewed by the news before ever seeing his own family. And he didn't... Which yikes, that feels like since you're a minor, you should have... Oh, horrible. ...someone should have consented on your behalf. It's a terrible, terrible way this happened. It's just like really, really fucked up. So he's holding Timmy and he's just like, you know, traumatized, both of them traumatized.

The media comes in, they're like, give us an interview. And he just sits there and he has to be interviewed before he can even see his own family. And he's holding Timmy the whole time and like wants to protect him. And so on March 2nd, 1980, police brought Stephen home at 1 a.m. and there his family was waiting, of course,

along with hundreds of people filling the streets. There were friends, strangers, reporters, they're all there to witness this reunion, you know, this is like national news. Stephen's parents run up to him, wrap him in their arms, and then the media just like mobs them. And Stephen's kind of smiling and he's like answering a few questions and they kind of have to push their way back into the house. And then Steven tells everyone, hey, listen, I want to be alone with my family.

And so they go into the house. And of course, the next day, the reporters are still there. They're just hanging out on the property, wanting interview after interview. And for weeks, this poor kid could not escape the media. Everybody's trying to buy the rights of his story off him. Everybody's like pitching TV appearances, like they're writing up articles, they want quotes. And some of the attention was positive. Like the town of Ukiah, for example, awarded him the reward money that had been posted when Timmy was abducted. But also like,

for the most part, this was just harassment. So in the 1970s, this is what media harassment looked like. They were allowed to walk into schools without any permission or paperwork. And so these reporters would follow him into class with cameras, just like filming him, like in math class. And they would wander into his locker with cameras and say like, hey, and he's in ninth grade. So like he's at this high school, he's already had this traumatizing experience. He had a different life, now he's back

and he can't even go to his locker without reporters like harassing him. Also like I'm sure this is like kind of maybe a minute detail to it, but I would be, ever since I was seven years old, I would have been really freaked out about strangers approaching me and like not knowing like if I should even be talking to them. And on top of-

Right, and now there's swarms of grownups just coming at you. And on top of that, and all of them saying, you can trust me with information. I'm having demands, you know? And on top of that, another very minute detail that like is not really that important, but you're a freshman in high school,

the last thing you want is attention right now. It's not a minute detail. It's not. Oh, it's not, okay. No, it's not. It's horrible because it gets so much worse. So the media is coming into the school, they're harassing him.

He's in ninth grade. He just wants to be normal for once, right? And he wasn't allowed to answer, that other part of it that's really fucked up is that the police had already said to him, like, you can't say this, you can't say that, this has to be kept under wraps, you know, as he... So they gave him media training, kind of?

They gave him like rules, yes, of like what he could say and what he couldn't, but then he's like... About his own life. Being harassed, and they're like, oh, tell us, tell us, tell us. And he's like, I can't remember what I'm supposed to say when I'm not allowed to say, like how much is a secret? And he's just trying to please grownups.

And he can't even go home and feel safe and vulnerable with his parents because he was robbed of feeling an intimacy like that with him, that where he can confide in them. And I mean, maybe he's trying to, but it probably still feels kind of like awkward with them, where he can confide in them. And I mean, maybe he's trying to, but it probably still feels kind of like awkward with them trying to like... Well, it was because his dad knew him as a second grader,

and now he's a first man in high school. Think about all that time where his dad like was like, you know, I want to play catch with you. And it's like, no, you know, like, it's just a totally different... Just like a straight... Like they're parents too. It's like, there's a random...

I mean, obviously you love them like a child, but it's still a stranger in your house. You have to relearn each other. You there's a random, I mean, obviously you love them like a child, but it's still a stranger in your house, you have to relearn each other. You have to relearn, you know, the, I mean, a whole high school knows him as Dennis. And you're relearning about a stranger in your house when they're going through like a whole new trauma

compared to the last one that you knew them through, like, or didn't even get to know them through. Oh my God. It's all just really horrible. So he is so guarded about all of this. He's very guarded about, but he wants to please people. He's been raised to please people and he's trying to be a good kid and do the right thing. He doesn't know that he can set up a boundary here and he doesn't know how and nobody's

helping him. So Steven was very guarded, especially about the sexual abuse that he endured. Cause like, why would you ever want to go into that ever? Right? Especially- Especially in the seventies when it's extra taboo. As like a boy, like in high school. I mean, come on. That's the last thing that you would want spreading.

And so this investigation against Ken is pending and he's just really trying to not reveal this stuff about the sexual abuse. But when the police discover the child sexual abuse material of Stephen, the media gets a hold of it and reports widely and publicly that Stephen had been raped by his abductor. And guess what happens? He goes to school and everyone is bullying him. Not everyone, but he's getting bullied. They are calling him homophobic slurs

because they learned that he had been raped. By a man, so obviously he's gay now. Does not how it works. And all these people in the media are coming and saying, hey, we wanna talk to you about being raped. It's like, talk about crossing every personal decency line. And again, in the 70s, when you're a 14 year old boy, I mean, it's hard in 2024 when people are more sexually,

we're talking about that more publicly. Like sensitive and open. Yeah, but back then when there was, I'm sure there was no training on what to say and how to say it and there was no PC culture on that. I'm sure he's even like, at some point, I'm sure he went through some like having to question his own sexual, like he had to go through his own process

with that, I'm sure. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean, everyone goes through their own, but imagine, yeah, having imagine having all this trauma happen and then having to figure it out. Plus, everyone's accusing you of things, mocking you. I mean... Oh, God, it just feels like there's no moment in his life

that is sacred or private or safe. Exactly. And I think that's such... And you're already so vulnerable at that age. It is. And like, you need that space. You need that, you need an outlet. You need a safe space. You need a person or a place where you can just like be, but he doesn't get, he doesn't need, not even at school,

not even in his math class. Like he gets no privacy whatsoever. Like it's hard to be just a normal 14-year-old on, like, but like, and then to be a 14 year old to be sexually assaulted, especially in that time period, on top of having been fucking kidnapped and you lost your family for seven years. And then you were like mind fucked into believing

your parents didn't even like you. And now you're back. Oh my God, the layers of, oh my God, wow. You've been literally given a new identity in a new town and then you get like alien transported back. I mean, it's all just, and then all of a sudden you're a new town, and then you get alien transported back. I mean, it's all just, and then all of a sudden, you're a hero, but then all of a sudden, you're being mocked by your peers.

I don't even know if, did he feel like a hero? Because he probably was like, I didn't even want to tell anyone about what was going on with me, and I had to do it for this other kid. And so, like- I think, let's just say the bad definitely outweighed the good in this case, for sure.

The identity crisis has to be out of control. For sure. And a lot of the other... I mean, he had a different name and a different dad. It's just so fucked up. A lot of his peers, his classmates, began feeling resentful because he's getting all this attention, he's on the front page of the news. And so, of course, that doesn't help the bullying because they're now a little bit like, oh wow, you're so important, you

know, like you just get R-worded by somebody and you know, just the bullying is relentless and the media is not helping. And Stephen's siblings, unfortunately, because they didn't understand and they didn't resent him, but they kind of envied the attention he's getting from friends and his family. And like his parents are just like lavishing him with like love and you know, I mean, it must just be such a hard thing as a sibling too to be like,

well, I'm so happy that my brother's home, but I feel like really neglected almost or like an afterthought sometimes when he's like the star of the show. And he had a brother who really felt neglected when Steven disappeared and his dad just went into kind of hiding almost and wanted nothing to do with him. And it was like, he just felt like he got the shaft.

Well, he also was robbed of an experience with his own parents, because his parents ended up having such like a clouded view of everything that he lost his own mom and dad. Yeah, they didn't have that joy with him that they did when Steven was around. And so when Steven comes back, it's kind of an extra mindfuck. I'm like, oh, great. Now my parents are so happy and he's on the front page of the news

and I'm still just sitting here, you know, and it's like, I imagine happy, but at their kids. I mean, I imagine like if you're a sibling of someone like that, there is like, probably some sort of like selfish secret thoughts of like, oh, well now that he's back, you can finally be happy. Or like, oh, well, now that we know he was fine all along, you could have had the joy with me and you never did. Like it's those things you would never wanna say out loud,

but you probably think it in the deepest, darkest hour of just, like... Yeah, it's like a breeding ground for resentment like that. Like, really, really personal resentment. And I think that was a huge, huge issue. And so... You know, he's going through this already, obviously. Meanwhile, like you said, even at home, he's not really in a safe place because he's trying to adjust.

He's trying to... He's in a safe place. I shouldn't say that. not really in a safe place because he's trying to adjust. He's in a safe place. I shouldn't say that. He's in a safe place with his family, but he's struggling to adjust to the way life used to be or whatever normal might look like. And Kay really wanted him to start counseling, but of course, Dell was staunchly anti-psychiatric medicine. So Stephen didn't even receive any therapy, Not even a drop, not even a minute.

And this teenager's being forced to process this shit on his own with no support, aside from like- So he's not processing it, let's be clear. At least not in a healthy way, you know? And so Steven often talked about his life as Dennis, which really pissed his dad off, because people didn't want to hear about his life as Dennis. They really pissed his dad off because people didn't wanna hear about his life as Dennis. They're like, you're not Dennis.

And it's like, there is that double-sided coin of like he had some good parts of his old life, even though of course it came out of a horribly traumatic event. But Kay said in an interview, to him, it was no big deal. It was his life, he lived it. He enjoyed some of it. He had good friends. Would you want to know what happened to your kid

when they were gone? She did. And I think it was just too much for the dad to handle. Like he just could not picture, he couldn't understand why his son who was finally home wanted to talk about like this event that had happened. And I feel like I can see, I can see a little bit of both. I mean, of course it was not treated respectfully like it should have.

I can see that he doesn't want to revisit a place he's already been so stuck in his head about for several years, but also like, you don't get to say, welcome home, so tell me all about you, but don't tell me anything about you. Exactly, he just couldn't handle it. And so, he liked to occasionally tell his family

about what had happened, what he did, what his life was like when he was gone. And Kay understood that. She said he enjoyed some of it. He had good friends, he had good experiences. That was a part of his life for seven years. And so Stephen's friends from Comchi, imagine. They just know him as Dennis.

Can you imagine? They're like, imagine, like they just know him as Dennis. Can you imagine? And they're like, wait, what? You know all of them at some point were like all hanging out like in a garage or something that they did in the seventies, like in a basement. And they all found out and they're all piecing it together and they're like, oh, that's why he had the mom thing.

And that's why this thing. And he would cry. And that's why his dad was such thing and that's why this thing and that's why he was so homesick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It had to all come flooding. I talk about the mind blow of like someone you know going through that. And so wild to see is like they interviewed one of his former teachers and she said like, do you want me to call him Dennis or Steven? Because like, and the producers said, well, you knew him as Dennis. She's like, okay, thank you. Like, I can only say Dennis, or not only,

but she was like, that's how I know him, as Dennis. And so it was just so interesting to see people to this day have different identities of him in their head. And so when his friends from Comchi heard about Steven's escape, they are floored. I mean, a lot of them, of course, feel guilty. There's no way they could have really known, but they feel guilty they didn't pick no way they could have really known,

but you know, they feel guilty they didn't pick up on it, but they were in middle school. And Kay wanted to talk to Steven about his life. Like she really wanted, she recognized that that was important to him to talk about his time in Comchi. And she wanted him to feel free about anything he wanted to. But like I said, Dell just really was struggling.

And he had to learn that, you know, he had to accept that Steven was no longer a second grade little boy. He had grown up away and had come back and so his dad is going through his own journey, right? And his dad had also like grieved him. Like his dad had been convinced he was not even alive. So to have him suddenly a teenager must be just like,

what the fuck? And out of nowhere reset button pressed. Go back to where you were. And a fast forward. Yeah, and a fast forward of like, go back to where you were and also add seven years. But it's completely different. Right. And so through high school, Steven continued to struggle.

He began drinking heavily and smoking marijuana to self-medicate. He totaled a car. He just was going through it. But as time went on, he started to finally find peace wherever he could. He and his family began feeling slightly more, quote unquote, normal, or at least stable, steady enough. And so after high school, Stephen began working at a butcher shop and he was introduced to a woman named Jodie and he developed feelings for her, asked her out, and Jodie said,

he wasn't one to mince words, he just said, like, will you go out with me? And so she said, yeah. He's like, I've wasted enough fucking time. I know, yeah, there's no time to be, to read between the lines, right? And so they didn't mince any words, they fell right in love, but Kate got married, got pregnant

with their first daughter, Ashley. They had a son named- Oh, really wasted no time. No time. They had a son named Steven Jr. And Steven began to settle into like a genuinely happy little life with his wife and children. He was an extremely involved and doting father.

He loved spending time with his family, worked hard to support them. And so when he was contacted by a director who wanted to pay him for the rights to his story to make a movie about his whole case, his whole childhood and his abduction, he said, ah, sure, why the hell not? And that is the end of part one.

Part one, Jesus Christ. You would think that'd be the end. Oh, no, no. You would think that'd be the end. Oh, no, no. You would think that would be the end. No, no. Especially like you tied it up with a little bow of he got married, had kids, they're happily in love, and he ended up getting movie rights sold. Like that's the end.

You know, at the end, you can just stop. You get like a glimpse of like, oh, maybe the villain is still out there. You know, it's sort of like that. It's like there's like a... The director is actually a maybe the villain is still out there. You know, it's sort of like that. But you're like, oh, the sequel is coming. The director is actually a shadow looming over him as he signs the contract. It's like, everything's happy for now. So is it a different crime then next week?

Or is it like... No, it's basically the aftermath of this whole story and how it was turned into a made for TV movie and kind of the fallout about that. Gotcha. Yeah. I hope you talk about what happened with fucking Ken because we never heard like all last we heard was

Steven ran out with Timmy, like literally ran away and went to a police station. I still have yet to hear that like Ken comes home and realizes he's not there and turns on the news and goes, oh, fuck. And then just like, neither of them are there. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's a Ken shaped hole in the wall as he bolts to like Mexico. That's what I'm imagining happened. So okay. Looking forward to it. Yeah, that'll be part two. So M suggested their theories. Anybody else? Shining. Comment below. Like, subscribe, and leave a button for notifications.

Yeah, I feel like that one is just, it's been a long time coming that I cover this because it's just been very heavily. Talk about having ups and downs. I mean, that's definitely a captivating story, Christine. Yes. Well, so the people at Lifetime or whatever also. Well, wow.

Okay. Well, how's your Miller Lite? Oh, much needed. Thank you. I just had a big sip. Do you feel like you're at the Red Onion Saloon? Probably not. Let me think. Oh, much needed. Thank you. I just had a big sip. Do you feel like you're at the red onion saloon? Probably not. Let me think.

Oh, okay. Do you feel like a calling, a called, a woman of ill repute? Who smells so bad? A call girl? Somebody smells really bad. It's me! It's me! Anyway, thank you guys for listening.

We're going to go to a Yappy Hour. And if you want wanna join us, you can head over to Patreon and do that with us. I think we have been kind of yapping about this, that, and the other, so we'll see what we yap about today. All I ever wanted to do was grow up to talk a lot, and now I get to do that.

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