And That's Why We Drink - E400 Dry Spaghetti Psychics and Gay Gasps

Episode Date: October 6, 2024

Two books, three pets, one Leona, two houses and one bed frame later we have finally reached Episode 400!! And the spaghetti says we’ll be around for at least 600 more. This week Em brings us a topic almost as wild as pasta psychics with the story of the Dancing Plague of 1518. Then Christine cracks into our newest book for the gayest love story gone wrong, the tale of Alice and Freda. And please don’t tickle our laughing veins… and that’s why we drink! Our new book A Haunted Road Atlas: Next Stop is finally here! Check out your local indie bookstore or visit http://bit.ly/HRANextStop to get your copy today! Come see our brand new live show: The Pour Decisions Tour which is sure to bring plenty of gasps, laughs, and frights! Get your tickets at: http://andthatswhywedrink.com/live ! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Oh, they all sound the same to me. I really thought that was the graduation song. But you know, imagine us walking down the aisle. I'll sing the graduation song. Okay. As we go. Christine, we've been doing this 400 times together today. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie.

I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. please note. No, but we also, my face looks so red compared to yours. Doesn't it?

Maybe it's because I'm behind- There's a white background behind me. Maybe it's like because you woke up at seven in the morning. Maybe, my blood is all in my face currently. It'll go away at some point. And my hair, I just told Christine I'd look like I live by the river. A lot's going on today. But I'm very excited. It is our 400th. I tried to get you a happy 400th banner to present to you, but it didn't come in time. And so if you would like, I could take off the wall, happy 75th birthday from when Alison's mom was here.

Oh, that's cute. I'll take it. Sure, I'll do a hand me down, happy 75th. Okay. Let me see it. Happy 75th. Oh, how cute. Look at that. We love you.

How's it? It feels so special. Honestly, I feel 75 that we've done 400 episodes. So it does still kind of fit. Yeah, it does feel like we've been on this planet and this podcasting plane for far too long. And we've well surpassed our welcome, but that's okay. We're gonna stay. So don't worry everybody.

We're not going anywhere. Christine, just give me a second. Let's just reminisce. What has been one of your favorite moments? You don't have to say your favorite. Okay, Al Humwalt. My favorite has been, I love when we did America's First Scene Shifter.

I love when you covered Cletus, which was me. I love Cletus. I love, okay, let's do like at least one thing that you're actually super proud of that we have accomplished in 400 episodes. Like, okay, there's so many. Like what's a thing that you never thought would happen though, like you've gotten to do?

Oh God, all of it, but let me think of one. I mean, I think, I know we say this all the time, but just being interviewed on Jim Harreld's podcast multiple times felt like the most surreal, full circle moment. And we did it again in honor of our new book. And every time it's like, I feel, and then I listened to his podcast and I'm like,

I know him. Like it's just very surreal because the four episode one, we were like, oh my God, can you imagine if someday we were like Jim Harold and, and now we're like pals with him. So I think that's the most like to me, very like symbolic full circle. What do you, what is your, do you have a, that's certainly the full circle one, I think, because that was the beginning of it all. It was very symbolic, you know, we, let's see. The first one that comes to mind is that we've had, we've had Rainn Wilson talk to us.

See, that one's so surreal. I don't even remember it happening. Like I blacked it out. I posted it at some point on like my Instagram feed. And then when I'm looking at myself on Instagram, because I like to pretend I'm everybody else. And I'm like, what, what do they say? You know what I mean?

It's like when you're not on the, when you're not, when you're living, when you look like you're living by the river, it's nice to reminisce during times when you felt more put together. Yeah. When I was living on, not by the river. Yeah. On the banks.

Yeah. No, I think that was the most holy shit moment for me. That was the most, one of the most nervous, I think I've ever been in my life. Like I remember sitting there and being so nervous I was gonna throw up. Especially because we were told, hey, don't act like he's Rainn Wilson.

That's the other thing. They were like, he's going to hop on in character as this Terry Carnation and you can't act like he's Rainn Wilson. And I was like, this feels like a lot of can't rules. It feels like too many rules. I think it's also interesting to note when we started. Wow, it was a long time ago, but the things that have happened since,

we have gotten houses, you have gotten engaged, married, and have a child. Ah, wow, I really fucking flew past those. You really said, I'm gonna do it all. And then this year you bought a house, so are the next few next for you or not? Not quite. A dog is next for us,

but it won't be for a us. A dog is huge. It won't be for a while. A dog is huge. I got two cats. You got two cats, a human. By the way, today is that human's birthday. Oh, that's right. Also, good morning.

Happy third birthday, Leona. That's one of the reasons why we're recording early today so Christine can go celebrate her little baby. This has been a weird timing. Yeah. Are you excited? You've got a whole three-year-old. What are the odds?

400 episodes M when you did episode one, you're like, I wonder what it'll look like. On your 400th, you've got a three-year-old. Oh, and I've gotten multiple tattoos. Sorry, I'm still distracted by all the things that I've accomplished. Yeah, that's really wild M to be sitting in a house in a completely different state with a three-year-old recording our 400th episode. Yeah, I'm very proud of you. Wow.

Thank you. That's nice. I'm very proud of you too. We've done a lot these past several years. We sure have. Is there a reason why you drink besides having a whole three-year-old today? Yeah, well, first of all, my dad texted me because he's coming over later and he's like, I just would like to watch the German soccer game

during the birthday party. And I was like, okay. Sounds like him, that sounds like him. Whatever, just do it. Secondly, I have been meaning to announce, as I keep forgetting, I was on my friend, so this feels also a little full circle because my friend Nicole, who did,

she used to do Dude That's Fucked Up, the podcast, and they haven't done it in a while, but she and I did improv together in LA and she used to do, Dude That's Fucked Up, the podcast, and they haven't done it in a while, but she and I did improv together in LA, and she recently emailed me, and I think this is the fastest I've ever responded to an email in the history of my life. She emailed me and said, hey, I have this new podcast I'm doing

with a friend called Bay Watchers, where we watch an episode of Baywatch, each episode, and we basically have a guest on to like discuss, and it's very funny. And I was like, hell yeah, I'm in. And so like the day after we recorded it, and I have never watched Baywatch before, but David Hasselhoff is a German icon,

so I've heard a lot about him, and you know how he, with his own bare hands, tore down the Berlin Wall, all that good stuff. And you know what? It was the best time ever, but I wanted to share it because I keep forgetting to actually share it on social media, but it's called Bay Watchers and I just can't get over how weird and fun and wacky it was. So I don't know, all these things are just very surreal and special.

So that was my little, that was, what about you? Why do you drink? Besides of course, David Hasselhoff. I don't know. I'll, I'll go with, I'll take Leona this time around. I think I'm very excited for you and your little baby. I'm also very excited her and I have been bonding a lot more recently. Oh, I wrapped, I finally wrapped the gift. You've been so, she's obsessed with you to the point that like, so I wrapped the gift you got her, which she's obsessed with you to the point that like So I wrapped the gift you got her which uh, you brought like a spidey denim jacket I wrapped that last night. She's gonna open that today. Yay. She's gonna lose her damn mind. I'm so excited

It's it's literally looks like a little biker jacket, but it's only spidey themed and she's a big spidey fan big spidey um, but uh last time I saw you we were on the road and you brought Leona with you and it was our first time bonding alone. It was only for like five minutes. Yeah, I was like, and was like, wow, I can't believe you let me take your child. I was like, I've been waiting for someone to take my child for the longest time and you just whisper away, went to your room to play, listen to Frozen. I did think you were behind me in the hotel. Yeah, I actively made sure that I locked the door as you left to make sure.

I looked around and I went, I don't know where your mom is but I guess I'm gonna just hang out with you now. And then the moment I was like, ah, peace and quiet. And then I turned the shower on and Em calls and goes, Leona wants you in my room now. And I was like, here I come. I did feel bad. I really was gonna try to be helpful

but then immediately she was like, where's my mommy? And I was like, oh. Yeah, she's going to be, she's going to not allow me to have that moment of solitude. And that's OK. But I will say, the reason I drank, which I already told you when we were in our green room, is that she grabbed my face and she said, Fonkel M, I love you.

She said it. All by herself. She really is one of those people where you're like, whoa, that's so kind and nice. I don't know. It's very German of her. I didn't see it coming at all. It was just all of a sudden there was an emotion

and then it went away. And then it's like, anyway, play your song again. Play Olaf again. Anyway, where's Frozen? I thought we were playing Frozen. Hurry up, Em. Another reason I drink is because since it is is the first, when we're recording this, it is officially spooky season today,

and we bought our first spooky piece of decor for the house. Ooh, show me, show me, show me, show me, show me. It is from Michele's, Michael's. Michele's? Uh-huh. And it's a- What the F?

Dude, Michael's has the best random coffin shaped shit. For people who are not watching YouTube, it is a coffin shaped curio cabinet with a clock in it. That's so fucking cool. And that was from Michael's, Michelle's. It was from Michelle's and I said, thank you, Michelle. And Michelle said, you're welcome. And then Christine said, I have a 30% off coupon.

I'm gonna copy you and get one too. That's fine, we can match. I have those, they sell those glass potion bottles. I'm sure you have those. All of them. And then I'm sure you have, I have the like, I was with you actually when I bought these, those little glass terraria.

I was pregnant, that's right. Cause you visited when I was pregnant in October, or no, September and I was like, let's go to Michael's. I don't know what else to do with myself. Besides eat figs and have you stare at me and like check my blood pressure every five seconds. But I went and bought all these like glass coffin terrariums with like, you put little moss and oh my God,

they have the best stuff at Michael's. Oh, it was a, well, it was a good time, but it was replacing kind of a stinker time because we last night wanted to go to Spirit Halloween and we usually have one, not triangulating myself at all, but we usually have one like five minutes away from us, at least from our old place. Yeah.

And so we went back there assuming it was open and it used to be a Kmart back in the day and it's just been this abandoned place ever since. The best Spirit Halloweens are. Yeah. Either Toys R Us, Kmart, yeah, there's a few. So we went to the abandoned Kmart, and there was, just I guess this year,

Spirit Halloween said we're not doing it. And so we were like, ah. That's even scarier than a Halloween store. An abandoned Kmart, are you kidding me? I know, we should have just kept going on in. Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe that's part of the vibe. So Michelle's was planned too, but it was a good plan too. Wow, well, I'm proud of your acquisition because that is a really

cool curio cabinet. Thank you. I'm very excited. We got that and then we got little, I felt bad. We had a whole plan this week of like decorating the entire house all Halloweeny and we're going to, we have a yard now, so we're going to decorate the yard. Oh, right. And now there was some family stuff going on. So I'm heading home. In like two hours. In like two hours. Again, hence the 7 AM recording, if anyone's trying to figure out what's going on.

And so I'm just heading home to hang out with my mom. But basically, I had all these big plans. And now I just don't know when I'm going to be around. Because I think I'm going to be there and then we go back on the road and so I don't know when I'm going to for all I know the house is not going to be decorated this year for Halloween, but it's also not decorated on the inside either. So maybe that's fine. Yeah, it's fine.

Also every year it's like Leona's birthday passes. Then it's like her birthday party a few days later. Then like the week after I freak out because I'm like, oh my God, we're two weeks in October and I have not done Halloween. It always ends up getting done and being fun and being up for several weeks. So don't pressure yourself. I feel like with a house especially,

there's this like, shit, it's October, the clock is ticking. But you have several weeks. In a few weeks, you can still throw it up, leave it up for a while. It's still fun and Halloweeny, even if it's just for like a week or two. Yeah, and also we are building our Spooky Z, so hopefully it will for a while. It's still fun and Halloweeny, even if it's just for like a week or two. Yeah. And also we are building our spookies. So hopefully it will be Halloween year round

at least a chunk of the house. Anyway, so that's why I drink. I drink for Leona. I do drink something kind of gross for Leona though, because we don't have anything else, but it's a, you would like it. I won't. It's a flavored sparkling liquid death.

Oh yeah, that sounds delicious. Yeah, I want my plain boring from the creek, from the river where my hair goes. Yeah, where you wash your hair. Yeah, it's severed lime. Yeah, I like that one, that's a good one. I don't wanna drink this, but we have nothing else. You don't have to drink it, I'm sorry to say.

I'm sorry, I'm hosting the 400th episode of a show called and that's why we drink and this is all we have to drink. So I'm drinking and I'm gonna do it for you and you're going to be appreciative and everyone else's too. And with that, drink up my thirsty little rats because I'm doing it, you gotta do it too. And take your meds and take your meds.

I did take my meds. Actually we had cleaners come today and I had to run down while they were cleaning and like vacuuming and grab my medicine. And I was like, excuse me, I'm sorry. I live here, but I get that, you know that feeling when there's someone in your house and you just wanna avoid them.

And you're still in the way. Yeah, and you pretend like, oh, I don't live here. I just please ignore my existence. And I'm like, why do I act so fucking weird around strangers? No, I do that in my own home too. I'm like, I wish, I'm almost jealous of all the ghosts in my house.

I'm like, no one can see you. No one's gonna ask you a question. Every time they're here, I'm like, this is your house now, people who are doing me a solid and vacuuming and mopping the floors. You live here now, not me. We had the internet come, oh, no, the guy, we had a guy come over and build our bed,

which that's another reason why I drink from a while ago, because we've never had a bed frame. And- You got it. Em, in 400 episodes, I've had a baby and a house and three pets and tattoos. You've got a bed frame. I literally-

And I'm super happy for you. It's one of the only things that's changed. I have the exact same cars, episode one, I have the exact same. Oh my God, I've literally, I've literally have, that's the, you know what, I always think that about us, that like, we have, we're very similar in a lot of ways, especially Gemini ways, and then we have this like,

total polar opposite thing where I cannot let something be the same for very long, because I get so bored, I get so like restless, I need something to change immediately. Like I love, I want to move houses the minute I move in. Like I'm like unhinged like that. Em's kind of the opposite of like I'm settled. I'm here. Don't make me move, like leave or, or upset the balance. I, I hate change. I mean, I know I say that all the time, but I really love it, man. I literally, I got my car re, you know, I got like an oil change and all this stuff yesterday.

I think it's like officially an old car because the people who were doing it went- Yeah, Em. Oh. You've had it since like before grad school. Yeah. You had it for a long time. Of course it's an old car.

I got it when I graduated college, so. Holy smokes. But it works, she works fine. I don't say anything's wrong with it, but it's definitely like 11 years old now, right? 10, 11, 18? She's an old girl, yeah, she's chugging along. But anyway, I got, sorry, let's bring all the tangents back into the fold.

Let's rewind. Oh, fine. My bed, oh yeah, it's my first bed frame, and Alison and I girl-mathed, it was very expensive. We were like, in seven years, if you add up the amount of times we did have a bed frame, this is basically free. So we-

That's actually pretty logical to me, yeah. Did that. Oh, and so the guy who came to build our bed, he just like, he kept asking me questions. I was like, can you get the fuck away from me? Like, you should build my bed and go. Whoa, just build my bed. How am I supposed to answer your questions?

He was like, where do you want it? I was like, I don't know, Alice is not here to tell me. Oh yeah, I don't like that. I'd be like, this is your house, remember, sir? I know. You build, no, like it's his house now. You put the bed wherever you think it goes. And then I'll pay you triple

because I don't know how this works and I'm stressed out. Your job to know how a bed should look by the end of this. Yeah. You gotta put it. I don't know how we got there, but I do have a good story for you Christine. Yay I don't know how to sagoo out of that. So let's just go into the story. This one's perfect So sagooing is not our specialty Hey guys, you remember how often I used to talk about my thinning hair patch on the top of my head

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For a limited time only, our listeners get $625 off their order at irestorelaser.com with promo code DRINK. Hair loss is frustrating. Trust me, I get it. You don't have to fight it alone, thanks to iRestore. I have a story for you where I was thinking, hmm, episode 400, what should we do?

What should we do? And I was trying to think of, I thought of a very stupid thing first. Let's get that out of the way. It must've been an actual dream that I woke up and forgot it was a dream and thought it was reality. In my mind, sinister hood has covered a topic

about a, like a, was a clairvoyant, I always forget, the one who can see the future. Oh, a psychic? A psychic. A clairvoyant, yeah. I had a dream that sinister hood covered a psychic who only tells the future based on like raw pasta.

What? who only tells the future based on like raw pasta? What? I love that you, wait, you don't even listen to podcasts. You're like, I had a dream Sinister had covered and wow. Well, cause I'm friends with Heather. I assume that maybe she said something in passing to me, I guess. I don't remember, but I- Or like on social media or something that you saw.

Or I saw something, yeah. But in my mind there was- Is it weird that my brain goes, that feels kind of right though. Or I saw something, yeah. But in my mind, there was- Is it weird that my brain goes, that feels kind of right though. Like, I don't know why. It still doesn't sound that wrong to me in my head because I, first of all, up until a few days ago, could have sworn that she'd covered it

and that it was this woman who she would tell the future by taking a handful of raw pasta, throwing it in the air, and however it laid on the floor, she'd read it like a tarot card. And I was like, that doesn't, that's like tea leaves. Yeah, I feel like that's a thing, like pick up sticks. Yeah. And so- I'm trying to exist.

And so then I looked like a real idiot cause I was like trying to, I couldn't write any- Dry spaghetti psychic. I'm assuming these were dry, raw noodles, right? I'm assuming too. Okay. Can you imagine just a bunch of wet spaghetti? You're like, let me read it,

and they're like, you're not supposed to cook it for his dumb ass. Just dip your hand in the boiling pot and then pick it up and throw it on the floor. So anyway, I looked like a real idiot because then I texted Heather and I went, Hey, who's that? You did not.

Pasta psychic. You did not. Wow. That went a step further than I expected. Yeah. So Heather has confirmed for me, she's never covered that. Good, I'm glad you triple checked just in case. That does sound like a thing though,

for some reason to me. Doesn't it? Yes. Yeah, I don't, I tried. I'm almost afraid people are gonna be like, yeah, that's a thing. If it is real, that's what I was gonna cover. Maybe it's on TikTok or something.

Well, my plan was eventually I was going to, I was gonna reach out to her and see, could you- To the psychic who does the spaghetti that is not real. Yes. Oh, okay, sure. My plan was I was going to cover it. And then as a gift to you on our 400th, I was gonna see if I could book a session

and she could tell us what she saw for the next 400 episodes with us. Imagine, imagine we had someone on to throw spaghetti on the floor and tell us about the next. I mean, I have spaghetti, I could just throw it across the room right now and tell you how things are gonna go. Maybe you are that psychic.

Maybe this is a future for you. Maybe that was my very first vision of how I have to do the rest of my vision. Holy shit. That's me. I think it's real. Anyway, that's obviously not what's happening today. So then I had to come up with a plan B and I was like, okay, 400.

I was like, oh, celebrating blah, blah, blah. And I went, oh, there's that story I've always wanted to cover about dancing. And so actually somebody guessed it right on Instagram. I saw you do a little thing. I put your butt, but you didn't answer me. I saw. Uh, I posted on Instagram as Christine just mentioned, that I said, what do you think I'm gonna cover?

Three people guessed it right. So to those three people. Wow, that's pretty impressive actually. Everybody else by the way, wanted me to cover your house, just so we know. So maybe for the 500th I'll cover your house. Okay. Anyway, to those three people, congratulations.

This is the dancingague of 1518. Oh my God. Okay, I'm so interested in this. All right. Okay, so this fun fact, I wanna start by saying that the event itself actually inspired many short films, books and songs, but my favorite of them all is the song, Choreomania by Florence and the Machine,

which came out during COVID, I think. Oh, I know that song. I don't think I had realized the name. Yeah, I didn't put that together. I think it's a song, right? Or is it just the album name? I think it's a song. I think it's a song, maybe I'm wrong.

Choreomania, I do like Florence and the Machine. I feel like I's a song. I think it's a song. Maybe I'm wrong. Choreomania. I do like Florence and Machine. I feel like I don't listen to their recent stuff very much though. Yeah, it's a song. Yeah. I was a big Florence and the Machine fan in college. In college, me too. Yeah. Me too.

The Dog Days are over really got us all. Really the entire generation have. That was like a very symbolic song for our college years. I feel like like a very. That should have been for our 400 episode. That should be our graduation song. Okay. I can't. Vitamin C string quartet or whatever the fuck I sang earlier is hard enough. I can't do those high notes. Well, okay. So here we go. Thanks, Florence on the Machine, for some potential music inspo. As for the actual dancing plague of 1518,

here are some fun facts about it. From the 14th to the 16th centuries, there were several reports of dancing plagues. So I always thought this was one event. I did too. Apparently there was at least 10 of these. What? What's happening? And they say the 14th to the 16th centuries,

it was more kind of like the 14th to like, I think the 18th century, but I think there was only like one in those 200 years, they don't even really count it, but basically 1300s to 1500s. And then somebody was just late to the party, like a hundred years later. And then another one just like tried to copy the others. Got it. But so there were several reports of people in central Europe having compulsive desires to dance and only stopping when they were so physically exhausted,

they either did or nearly died. That's really scary. I know that it like is everyone kind of laughs about it, but it's really freaky. Yeah, it could be you next. Ah. The most famous case, however, is the one that everyone has suggested, which is the

one from 1518 in Strausberg, which is now in France. But at the time it was the Holy Roman Empire. And the I guess it's a main character, some sources don't even know if she's a real person. But the an overwhelming amount of sources at least say that we start with this woman named Frau Trophyia and great name. And she apparently left her house one day. She walked into a nearby street and that girl began to dance. Oh my God. I love that she left her house first though.

I know you can just like do it behind closed doors. You need people to look. Like a normal person. So she began to dance, which I do wonder what like 15, 18 dancing looked like. I do too. Cause it's not like they were grinding up on each other, you know?

Yeah, it's like every decade grinding up on each other. You're like nightclub music. I feel like every decade has its own, Teach Me How To Dougie was a big one, for a couple years, Stanky Leg, at least these are definitely dating me, but then you think 400 years ago, what might the Stanky Leg have looked like?

I know, but oh, you know what song, speaking of Stanky Leg, you know what song, Funko, I'm Just Taught Leona? Oh God. You know it, Wob what song, speaking of Sankey, like you know what song I, Funko Lump, just taught Leona? Oh God. You know it, Wobble Baby, Wobble Baby. Okay, that was really funny actually, and she got really into that. And then she started saying, I'm the Wobble Baby.

And I was like, girl, you are. And then- And she kept dancing, talk about not stopping. And then she taught me, this is the funny, this is actually I think, Baby's first joke, because she then, we were watching Paw Patrol, she was teaching me all about how much rubble is her favorite.

And then on her own, she started saying rubble baby, rubble baby, rubble baby, rubble. Yeah, okay, that's true. That's true. She does have M's eye for puns, or M's ear for puns, I guess, if you will. That's true. We were all pretty shocked when she said rubble baby,

because we went, oh my God, that was actually kind of clever How did you do that? That girl is so witty Okay, so anyway Let's assume that Frau was doing the rubble baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no other chance of anything And so she starts dancing. She starts dancing with the type of madness And so she starts dancing. She starts dancing with the type of madness

that is like people are noticing that she's dancing. I mean, first of all, isn't it kind of like, should women be dancing? Or aren't you like a hoe? Yeah, yeah. That seems inappropriate already for the time. Yeah. A harlot as Christine says?

Especially by yourself. It's a harlot, yes. Like who are you summoning over to? And also, you know, everybody, I feel like everyone knows each other back then in their villages. Like, you're not going very far. So it's like, why is Miss So-and-So, like, I've literally seen her do the same thing,

go to the butcher every morning, and now she's like on the side of the road dancing. That would be so trippy back then. Like, what? I'd be like, Miss Frow had a little too much coffee. Irish coffee, I think. Yeah, something, and there's a bit of Irish coffee, and there's not even any music playing,

which is so unsettling. Yeah, so apparently I'm assuming at least she stuck out like a sore thumb, especially if she was doing the wobble baby. And so when she eventually, or at least other people eventually realized that not only was she outside dancing, which I'm assuming was a big no-no, she's by herself. Nobody's like vouching, but this is like normal behavior

for her. There's no music, which is so creepy. Every time I think about people dancing with their own music, there's something so creepy about it. Absolutely. Um, people really, she's not stopping and she's dancing like, I mean, she's not resting. She's not eating. She's not stopping to go to the bathroom. She is.

How long it took before people were like, should we ask her what she's doing? See, I don't know why there's not a single fucking source that says somebody approached her and went, girl, you okay? Girl, what's going on? Like, what are we celebrating? Why are you, it's been, it's like 7 a.m. What are you doing? It's now midnight, like nothing.

But she danced and people noticed for like at least six days. What? Okay, I thought you were gonna say like six hours and then someone intervened. Six days? Days. She apparently, only one source said this,

but I have to believe it's true because otherwise this is physically impossible. But one source said that she did kind of slow down to kind of like do like the nodding off to sleep thing. Oh, what a nightmare. So she in some way was getting rest, but she was definitely not going to bed. Wow.

And she just kept on going. And the even weirder part is that eventually other people started dancing with her. And it was, I don't know if people were like kind of mocking her and then they kind of got into it. Like, okay, Frow, okay, Frow. Like, let's see if she knows something we don't know. You know? Yeah.

I mean, if I saw someone dance. Get it, Frow. I mean, if I knew Frow and she was in my village and I saw her dancing, I'd be like, okay, do it to him. You gotta do it to him. I just kind of keep it moving. Do the stanky leg, you know what I mean? But after like at least 15 minutes max,

I'd be like, we have to talk about why this is happening. Yeah, also can we, the joke feels like we're stretching it a little thin, you know? It's like six days in, like, okay, haha, it's over now. But I do have a quick question. Do you know, which I assume you would have said if you knew, but do you know if she ever was like help? Like saying like, guys, I don't know why I'm dancing.

I don't know anything, which is crazy. That's so weird. Like, wouldn't you at least be like, hey, sorry, I don't know why I'm doing this. I promise you, the amount of sources I looked at for an answer like that was numerous. That makes me so mad. I'm like, why didn't anyone tell the important facts?

Like, was there music? Like, what kind of dance did she do? There were certain, I agree with you. There was certainly, they did say there was no music. No music, okay. That definitely helps picture it. Yeah, it's certainly creepy, but they don't say how she's dancing.

In my mind, it's probably like a light shuffle because anything else would make you a harlot. Yeah, it's not like she learned, like just suddenly developed the ability to do all these insane dance moves. Like, it's not like she's like, not developed the ability to do all these insane dance moves. Like it's not like she's like not Simone Biles in the street, you know, but I, I will say that would probably also explain why she was able to do it for six days. Like if you're like doing all it's like a light jog versus a sprint, you know, right?

Right, right. This is a marathon that we're doing here. Yeah, yeah. So literally, yes. But at some point I would think she would have said help please. Like I need someone help. And there's no record of that. Or anybody approaching her and going, do you need help?

Because you look crazy. You need to go inside. At some point, people, I'm assuming, they were originally mocking her or trying to chime in. Maybe this was their way of intervening, but they started dancing with her. Yeah, they were like, let's dance her back to her house. Let's all circle and say, woo.

Boogie this way. Just, yeah, put her to her house. Let's all circle and say, woo. Boogie this way. Just, yeah, put her in a chair. Let's all hoist her up, take her all the way home. I'd be like, let's do dirty dancing, girl. I'll catch you and then just carry her. And you're just like, run back. Okay, a little farther, a little farther. Into the doorway of her house.

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Yeah, people just, I don't know why people start dancing, but they do, and then they also can't stop. And so this is like a week of it was her by herself, it seems, or by it was either the first week or the second week. Now 30 people have started dancing with her and can't stop. Oh my God. At the end of the month, she has been doing this for a month now. 400 people are dancing in this town and can't stop. How is she alive? Also like, this is not the era of DoorDash. Someone isn't like bringing you a sandwich.

Yeah, what's going on? How is she eating? How is anyone doing anything? Like the butcher must be close. Like I can't imagine. I don't know why I keep thinking butcher. Well, the butcher's dancing. He's probably-

Exactly. He's just left the shop open. Also, like if she brought like a pocket of snacks for her dance day, like that's depleted. Yeah, well, for sure, for sure. Like she's out of those drinking water, like anything. No, and funny you should mention cause it was July, 1518. Oh, god. And it was,

they say a hot summer, but also- For Germany or for wherever we are in France. Compared to today and after the era, They say a hot summer but also for Germany Compared to today and after the air the area had just had like a light ice age So well, just a miniature ice age, so I don't really know how hot of a summer But one source did say it was a hot summer. It was July. So let's just say it was Toasty day. Yeah, especially in all those layers. I imagine all those layers shit Toasty day, yeah. Especially in all those layers, I imagine. All those layers. Burlap and shit.

Wool. Wool and burlap. But they, yeah, nothing to eat, nothing to drink. And it seemed that more and more people were joining in. The city hears about this, obviously, because the town was probably only 400 people wide. Yeah, exactly. Now no one's going to work.

The city hears about it because they're dancing all together now. So the city hears about all these people dancing and they're like, yo, why won't they stop? What the fuck's going on? So they literally start getting so worried that they bring in like the local doctors. And they're like, you need to go check on these people.

Cause like, they're, I assume, like honestly, at this point, the way I imagine it is that these dancers must have their eyes closed and they're just like in the zone and like ignoring people. Because if the city is approaching you and now bringing in doctors, someone must have asked you, are you okay? And you're not responding.

Exactly, and why are you doing this? And like, I imagine if you were like, I don't know, it just started happening and I'm exhausted. Like that would have taken a different, yeah, they must be in the zone. Or if you said nothing at all, they'd be like, someone must have gone up to her and been like, girls say something, I'm getting freaked the fuck out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is starting to get unsettling. So she didn't say anything. All 400 people are apparently at least unresponsive enough that the town is worried. They bring in the doctors and the doctors are maybe helpful for the time, but this was when people were believing

in the four bodily humors. Do you know what that is? Yeah, a little bit like bile and... Yeah, so there's blood, phlegm, yellow bile, black bile. And I did not do research on this. I'm going off of two decades ago history class, but I think they believed that your entire body was running off of these four humors or liquids in your body.

And if any of them were causing an imbalance and the rest were fucked up and you were, those were causing all your illnesses. So the only way that you were healthy is if all four of your bodily humors were at perfect level. And so he basically said, Oh, well, this is obviously a case of one of the humors being an imbalance. Like, right, like leech. They would do leeches for certain things.

Bloodletting and shit like that to try and get the lower certain levels of, yeah, yeah, yeah. If they thought your blood was too high, they would have leeches literally suck blood out of you. Yeah. And so I don't know about phlegm. I never hear about that one. I feel like that one deserves more conversation.

That's probably just like a netty pot, you know? Yeah. That's what I do to know about phlegm. I never hear about that one. I feel like that one deserves more conversation. That's probably just like a neti pod. That's what I do to balance out my humors. Anyway, the doctor said, oh well, of the bodily humors, I think this one is blood. And somehow leeches were not involved. Can you imagine they were just like, hold still! Everyone's like dancing. Even the leeches are kind of wriggling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, like, shake it off. Shake off that damn leech. That's so gross. I imagine it's just frow and a hundred leeches and it's like SpongeBob and the jellyfish jam.

She's like got her backup choreographed dancers. Yeah. Well, so, um, he's, they said there's abnormal levels of blood. There are obviously, which I kind of love in the moment, like he was like, oh, they're just like listening to their bodies. It's like a chemical thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, they're clearly dancing because their bodies are telling them they need to burn off the excess of hot blood. Right, sure that.

And so because they're listening to their bodies and they must know what they need and it's to burn off this extra These extra imbalances let them keep dancing. That was the doctor's orders. Let them keep dancing. Wow, really? And so the city goes okay, and they literally hire a fucking stage band musicians and high no to get people moving moving moving, moving. I didn't know that. That's wow. What a choice. That was a choice.

I like how they like also again, this isn't 2024. How are you just calling? How are you arranging a venue set up that quickly? Literally it's not like you can do like gigster, like, you know, just book like book a DJ for the evening. Yeah. Like I feel like in my mind that requires like 17 horses, nine business days. Right, big time. You'd need like a raven to send a piece of paper somewhere.

Yeah, you're only responding with like letters. So like how many days are going by just to like send a letter to ask if someone can bring you a stage. I guess like, can imagine that moment where you're like, oh God, the jesters should be here any day now and they're just like still dancing. You're like, I mean, should we cancel? It's like, well, no, they're still dancing.

Which like, dare I say it, a jester is the worst person to hire in this moment. Oh my God. Or maybe the best if you want someone to like dance with you and help you out. Lean into it, yeah. Like if the jester is required to do anything else, he's gonna get lost in the sauce on this little

big time dance excursion. He's like not made for, cut out for this. I will say too, like adding a band, it feels very almost like nothing to see here. We're just having a dance party. Yeah, like it had to be creepy. Just like you said, it's creepy when one person dances. It's really creepy when 400 people dance without music.

And they're not speaking? They're not speaking, no music is playing. You just hear shuffling? Oh my God, that's so scary. You just hear clothes kind of moving. That's so creepy. Or like also, if they've been dancing for fucking a month, you must just hear out of breath the whole time.

Yeah, and in pain, and people have probably fallen over, but then they're just like, gotta keep dancing. I mean, that's gotta be so unsettling. I can't stop thinking about it. And then they're like, oh gotta keep dancing. I mean, that's gotta be so unsettling. I can't stop thinking about it. And then they're like, oh, let's just add music cause that way it'll look normal. Like what? But think of how good, like I'm thinking back to like,

you know, Wolf Pack mindset, but like think of how good that collective yawn must be. Oh, everybody yawns. Yeah. And then it's like, but now we gotta keep going. So. Oh, yuck. So, so anyway, this, as predicted, did the exact opposite. Um, because this didn't get people to stop dancing. It just encouraged them to keep dancing. Right.

And then because they did it in such a public space, other people walking by were now lured into dancing and now more people in town have been afflicted with The moves dance bug. Yeah The jitter bug yeah, and so Not so that's problem one with this is that they've now created Like a breeding ground for people to have this dancing problem. And problem two is that now that they're now encouraging people to dance when they already

haven't stopped moving for 30 fucking days, so they're dropping like flies. I was gonna say now you're probably just like crashing. So I think for a moment they were like, oh, we're doing the right thing. Because now they're finally stopping dancing. But it's like, no girl, they're not stopping because you cured them. They're stopping because they're finally stopping dancing. But it's like, no girl, like they're not stopping because you cured them. They're stopping because they're literally dying. Because it's like you killed them a little bit. So you should have started with the leeches.

Maybe that would have helped. Yeah, just get them sleepy and they'll stop maybe. Yeah. Well, I guess how sleepy can you be? I was gonna say, you're probably already god damn sleepy if you've been doing this for 30 days. So yeah, people's bodies just started giving out and people were fainting.

There's rumors that some people had strokes or heart attacks. I bet. And so at this point, now we're two months in, it's September and we start in July. Imagine how much it has rained and like at night time, you're still doing it. Like this is just so freaky. Like are people, is there like,

is one of the justers hired to just bring a box of sweaters around when it gets cold at night? Yeah, does anyone put blankets on? Does anybody like? What's the etiquette on toilet situations? Cause some- Oh my God, I haven't even thought about toilet situations. Someone's pooping standing up.

They all have to be, right? Or I guess you can dance and go on a- And like, are you dancing over to like a specific, like an area that has been deemed the poop area? Or is everyone just dancing in their poop? Like, is there that much brain, like is there like, how much thought process is part of this? Like, are you thinking like,

shit, I have to go to the bathroom. Like, where should I go? Or are you just like, shit, I have to go to the bathroom. Like, where should I go? Or are you just like, my brain is off? Are you cleaning yourself? Are you making that a dance move? You know how people have the lawnmower? Oh, yeah, yeah. The wipe.

Sort of like the wipe your ass. The front to back. Yeah. Yeah. Also, even like, let's pretend that these people magically didn't have to use the bathroom. Think about still no deodorant in 1518 in July and you're dancing for two months.

Don't forget the wool in the burlap, yeah. Oh my God, talk about stanky leg, you know? Yeah, ooh, adds a new layer to that. Well, and also then it rains and then everyone's like just wet and like you're, oh God. Everyone's just damp and full of bacteria, yeah. So nasty. So like I said, there's rumors that people are dying.

Two different sources I know, more than two sources I saw, are that 15 people a day were now dying. Jesus, OK. Which I will say, there are no official records. This is a heavily documented event, and there are no official records of an actual fatality. Oh, OK. So it might just have been become part of the lore. Right. But a lot of sources do say,

allegedly 15 people a day started dying when they started dropping from exhaustion. Yeah, and it's like maybe some people did die and they just didn't notate it. They're like, well, right, it's fine. Right. So now it's September, the city is like, this isn't working. Like the musicians still playing, are they like still there? Because I feel like I would be pissed off. I'd be like, are you paying me over time? This feels like Hocus Pocus when the witches put a spell on the band to play all night long and like they just never just forget to stop.

And like all the parents in town are dancing, so they're distracted from the children. It is like a very similar. I wonder if the Hocus Pocus writers took inspiration from the dancing plague. Actually, when you said that, I was like, that's a really weird, like that is a very big parallel. I feel like they might have done.

It feels accurate. But anyway, hang on, Alison's gonna open the fridge. Oh good. Is she gonna get you another lime flavored? No, she's getting herself Plain water that is not sparkling. You just said you didn't have any that's what I thought too So the city is like what the hell do we do now and this was a religious town So they began of, looking towards God. What does he have to say about this?

Yeah, somebody needs, I mean, honestly, at this point, I'd probably also be looking towards God. Like, what else are you gonna do? You've tried everything. And also like, it's a small town, 1518. You don't have a lot of resources. Exactly. It's not like you can TikTok what's going on.

Exactly, like it took six months for the jester to arrive. Like you might as well ask God what's happening. Well, so they all of a sudden start getting really nervous because they fear that this dancing might actually be a punishment cast down, not just from God, but from Saint Vetus. Oh, who the hell is that? He apparently is the saint of,

I don't know what the actual, like I feel some of these websites, I feel like we're trying to like get creative with the way that they said it. And now I don't know if it's actually like, he's the saint of that actual thing. Okay. But essentially of movement is what I gather.

Oh, what's his name? How do you spell it? V-I-T-U-S. And I did check the pronunciation because I thought it was Vitus. Saint Vitus or Vitus. That would be definitely Vitus. Saint Vitus or Vitus. That would be definitely Vitus. Saint Vitus.

Also, also sometimes called Guido. Jersey Shore, baby. Hey, a Christian martyr, of course, classic. Give me a break. What else is now? Give me a break. So apparently he was from like year 303 AD. That was, that's the number I remember.

That doesn't sound right. That doesn't sound real, but yeah. But so apparently he, I don't, I'm assuming he's the saint of movement. That's the generalization I'm going with. But they were- Oh, here we go. Catholic online, catholic.org. He's one of the 14 holy helpers

and is a patron of epileptics, those afflicted with St. Vitus' dance, dancers and actors. Okay. So I guess movement. I didn't really, because I also saw epileptics and I was like, is that someone being an asshole? Like I couldn't tell. Anyway, so I don't know. I got nervous.

And then I also saw of, I got nervous about that because another source said that he was the saint of like, something, it was epileptics. One said epilepsy. One of them said nervous disorders. And then one of them said like groovy times. And I was like, I don't fucking know what to trust anymore. So.

Yeah, well, he's from 343. What do you think? That was like the boogie era, you know what I mean? Anyway, it really threw me for a loop. And I was like, I'm not saying any of that shit. I'm just saying movement from what I can gather. So anyway, they were worried that they were looking at all these other things.

They were looking at what the doctor said to say at the time. Nothing was working, so they looked to God. And it said that they were worried that they were looking at all these other things. They were looking at what the doctor said to say at the time. Nothing was working, so they looked to God. And it said that they were worried Saint Vitas might be punishing them by cursing them with dance, which feels like something a leprechaun does. It feels like something a cartoon character does, yeah. But so they were afraid that he was giving them the curse of dancing mania. And because of this uncontrollable dancing became known as the St. Vitas dance or choreo minor, because eventually the term becomes known as choreomania, which are the Greek

words for dancing and madness. Wow. And the Florence and the Machine album. So now they're thinking, oh, fuck, like we've, we're encouraging people to dance when this was a punishment from God all along. So like maybe we have been accidentally casting people, casting people to the wrong places, doing the wrong things. So then the city does a full U-turn and they ban all dancing and music.

They say, stage, get out of here, just leave. Yeah. Everything that we've paid you to do for the last several ones. They just arrest everyone and it's like, you just hired us to play music. It's like, well, the law changed. Now we're arresting you. They finally got there and they're like tuning their guitars

and then it's like, oh, I have to leave now. It's like, I just walked 14 days to get here and now you're fucking sending me back without my payment. Oh my God, I would be so pissed. So they ban all music. They even, I saw this from one source, but I thought it was interesting that they offer, they do an offering for St. Vitas,

which is a 100 pound candle. Sorry, what? Why would you even, like, I don't want that. Who wants that? Yeah. And how do you carry that if it's made of wax? Think of your fingernails by the end. It's gonna have just scratch marks everywhere.

Change opinion, I do want that, but I don't want the hassle of that. Like I would love a candle that just never ends cause you know, I just feel wasteful when I throw away the glass part, but someone has to carry it for me. I'm not going to love that. That's not a candlestick situation. That's leaving it on the dirty concrete. It's going to be a huge pillar. Just like roll it down the gravel.

Yeah, it had to have rolled. It had to have rolled. Yeah. Oh, so then when it gets there, it's just got sand in it. Oh, nevermind. So dirty. So dirty. Anyway, so they offer a hundred pound candle and they take the people who are still dancing uncontrollably up to a mountain top. They take them. They take them to a mountain.

Yeah, I guess so they were like, conga line. They were like, the candles rolling everybody, come on. Follow along. Yeah, you're right, conga line they're like oh we have a new dance everybody follow me yeah yeah and this was the beginning of the conga dance um beautiful st conga of pacifist so uh they basically take them up to this mountain top where they've built a shrine for saint vidusitas. And they have all the people dancing. They pray over them and they perform exorcisms on them.

And they make them hold little crosses and wear red shoes. Which red shoes, apparently that represents St. Vitas and his burning feet. Oh, that's cute. That's precious. That's really great. However, I have two other fun facts for you about the red shoes is that one source mentioned that the red shoes part might've come later,

like become part of the lore because of Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale, the red shoes. Oh, well that would fit, yeah. Which is when someone had red shoes put on them and the red shoes forced them to dance until they like reached insanity and then they hacked their own feed off to stop the dancing because it was so

torturous. And then they were like well that's a fun story and also Saint Vius's feet were really hot so I guess we could combine them. And then the other thing about the red shoes which I wish I did more research on this before I kind of blurted out but the second reason why red shoes, which I wish I did more research on this before I kind of blurted out. But the second reason why red shoes might be getting mentioned here is because one of the other dancing plagues that happened in history, actually, it was very odd, but apparently the group of people who were dancing also would attack people who were wearing in fashion clothing. What? That was like one of the symptoms is that they would attack people who were wearing in-fashion clothing. What? That was, like, one of the symptoms is that they would attack people who were, like,

dressing fashionable. And so, because of that, the city banned production on in-vogue shoes, which happened to be red shoes at the time. Okay. And so, one of the other dancing plague stories that are out there is that the town had to stop And so one of the other dancing plague stories that are out there is that the town had to stop production of red shoes because people were attacking people

wearing red shoes. That feels like the neighbor got attacked for doing something as holy and was like, they're just jealous of my new red shoes. And it's like, I don't think Frau is jealous of your new red shoes. Like what a fashionista, it's like, you're just using this as a way to attack me for my clothes.

Yeah, oh God. Peasant. You're just so jealous of me. So anyway, after the experience on the mountaintop where they have this exorcism, maybe or not they're wearing red shoes, the dancing did slowly end. Okay, wow, it feels so anticlimactic

to say it like slowly ended. I know. Well, I think they only took like the craziest answers up there and then once they were now tamed, the spell kind of broke from everybody else too. But to this day, nobody knows what actually caused this event. That's the craziest thing to me.

I like, I knew that part that we don't really know, but it just blows my mind every time. One reason, sorry everybody who's YouTubing right now with the light being kind of crazy, but whatever. One reason it was that this could have come from at least like the main theory for a while was that they must have been um, uh, taking, not taking an herb, but they were poisoned by the stuff called ergot, which is a fungus that comes out of rye flower. And so they thought maybe that's what's going on here. Like maybe they just had really bad bread because- There's a bad batch that like infected people, yeah. Yeah, and I guess ergot that has the symptoms

if you have ergot poisoning is like convulsions and spasms and vertigo. It's like, is it a, I'm not sure if this is true. Is it like a psycho, like does it have psychotropic effect, like psychoactive effects? Some of its very key components are the LS of LSD. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That is just that. And so they were like, well,

maybe they're just hallucinating and they're just like in this crazy like space where they're just like moving around and convulsing and it looks like they're dancing. But people also, at least in today's world are like, that can't be right. Because first of all, we're ignoring the fact that it has several other symptoms that nobody experienced. Yeah, fair play. Like gangrene and like burning sensations and death. And maybe people died, but maybe they didn't.

And if they did, it was after two months of dancing and over exhaustion, not because they actually took this poison. Fair. Okay. Also people from all, I guess, the one of the arguments is that a lot of the people who have dealt with this, not just in this dancing plague, but in all dancing plagues, it was assumed for a while that ergot poisoning was the reason for all of it. But if all these people from different places with different types of vegetation and crops

and soil and stuff, if all of them were having this problem, like ergot doesn't exist in all of those spaces. It doesn't explain it, right, okay. On top of that, how are all of these people only experiencing one symptom? That's what's gonna be weird. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Also, if you like have ergot poisoning and you don't die,

it's gonna go away in a few days, not two months later. Okay, so it is not like, oh, you're afflicted for months. It's like, it's supposed to be just a brief food poisoning. No, it's like an LSD high, it's like you're trippin'. Oh, I see, you're tripping. Okay, okay, okay, okay, I see. And then on top of that, it's like, well, even if one of the side effects was dancing or something,

like you would literally be so exhausted eventually that like whether or not you were trippin' balls, you would just end up lying down on the floor and keep tripping and then... And also trip it, yeah, having a trip, like I get that it's like, oh, well, you're doing something and then everyone else is doing it, so you're kind of leaning. But you're right, like that wouldn't explain

like nobody can stop dance. Like, it just still doesn't quite fit. I agree. My science background, with all my knowledge, I agree. Well, one of the other reasons why it's assumed that, My science background, with all my knowledge, I agree. Well, one of the other reasons why it's assumed that, I mean, it is a good guess for the time of like, oh, you're clearly poisoned by a toxin. Yeah, I always thought that was real until recently when I learned it wasn't.

But one of the other reasons that people assume that ergot poisoning is related to this is because it was also one of the easy throw away explanations for the women of the Salem witch trials. Oh, and so it gets conflated as witchcraft because this feels like witchcraft. Gotcha. Okay, okay, okay. So then people were like, okay, maybe it's not ergot poisoning. Maybe this is like a spider bite or this is some other drug poisoning. There's Belladonna's, I think is the type of drug poisoning that people thought.

Oh, they apparently the symptoms add up a lot more than, Oh, I've never even heard of that. Then ergot poisoning. But then for the same reasons, people were like, it can't be that because like you're not going to experience this for fucking two months. Yeah. And like, and then only prayer gets you back. So then a spider bite, people thought that that was a legit reason, but-

What like everyone got bit by the same spiders? Exactly, so then that was why people died. It's like not everyone has been bitten by the same tarantula and then so it becomes Spider-Man, you're fucking Lord of the Dance. So similar- That's Leona, Wobble baby, Wobble baby. It's Heidi.

She is the Wobble baby. Yeah, she's a Wobble baby. This feels like, I know this is what's supposed to mean like celebration for our 400th, but it does also weirdly apply to your birthday girl of being the Wobble baby. Let's talk about dancing. It weirdly does.

I hadn't really put it together till this very moment, but yes it does. Say it, You know what I want you to say? Say it, say it. It's a double entendre. Ah! Ah! We've got everything. We've got everything.

We've got elevator music. We've got dog barking in the background. We've got everything from episode one that has not changed. Perfect. I like, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah. Just can't get any better than this or any different or any yeah. Well so similar manias like I said have taken place but the 1518 event was the

most thoroughly documented one and otherwise the best known one was in 1374 where many dancers had the same affliction of having this plague go on, and they believed a demon was in them, so they attempted to control their convulsions by like binding and beating themselves. Oh, so they were trying to stop themselves. Yeah, they were- Oh, interesting. More aware, it seems.

It felt like the first people weren't really like that involved in their own. They feel like zombies in some way. And this one, I think they were like actively trying to fight this. But then they were also not only dancing but they apparently had an orgy that resulted in like over a hundred conceptions. What?

So they're doing like a different type of dance. Saint Vitas is like, I do not approve of this. How much clearer can I get? Bring me my candle. And the jesters are just like having to just hypen them up. Like, oh yeah, I'm into this. Well, weirdly, oh, these were the ones that they were attacking people with fashionable clothes and they had to ban production

of in vogue shoes. So the dancers were dragged to a church where they were, I mean, wildly tortured to expel the demons from them. Imagine you're already getting tortured by like, uncontrolled, like not having control of your body. And then someone is like, I'll punish you for that. And it's like, I don't want to be doing it either. Like that, it feels extra bad. And if they were having an orgy, there is a whole

conversation about consent on like, if you are great, how in control are you? If you can't control your dancing, right? Good point. I hadn't even thought of that. Oh, that's so sinister. Okay. So anyway, I only bring up that one because that's the other most popular one that people refer to when they're talking about dancing plagues. But all dancing plagues ended around the same time as the middle ages. And I don't know if those have anything to do with each other religiously or something like that. Or maybe there was a new medical explanation for it.

But historical documents from various sources confirm this. There's literal doctor's notes because people could go to work because they were dancing. There was church sermons, notes from the city council, maybe a letter to a stage provider, I don't know. A letter to the local DJ, yeah. But it was even documented in both Latin and High German.

And I think his name is Paracelsus, right? I don't know. Because in my mind, I want to say like Paracleses or some shit like that. But Paracelsus is like Paracelsus, right? Because he was involved in chemistry. I have no idea. That's how, listen, I don't know.

I think Paracelsus. Paracelsus sounds right. I've heard of that before. Well, so he even wrote about this with his own theories. And what's so interesting is he went to the town eight years after this event happened. And so a lot of the people who were a part of it were still there to like give their own stories.

Oh, cool. So he could actually like- Document it. Check in and see what was going on. Okay, okay, that's good. Go to the source. And so I was like, oh, I can't wait to hear what he has to say.

First thing he had to say was that Frau was just a rebellious instigator and wanted to embarrass her husband. Hey, you leave Frau alone, you asshole. He also said the other people most likely were, he said the other people most likely to have been infected with this dancing plague were the scoundrels and whores of the town because they were embracing bodily pleasure.

Hello? Heartlet, I told you. But the rest of his theories actually were kind of, of their time, they were on the right track. He was like, I don't think this has anything to do with religion. He was definitely leaning more towards the bodily humors thing. But then maybe at the time it sounded okay, but today it sounds so wackadoo.

He was like, obviously their laughing veins were being tickled. I mean, to be fair, we have something called a funny bone, which really isn't anything that it sounds like, but yes, that is honestly sounds absolutely outrageously stupid. He was like, oh, their laughing veins are being tickled. Imagine writing that in a high German medical text.

You're like, this is the tickled vein. I mean, come on. Apparently, when that happens, it elevates the levels of your bodily humors and it clouds your judgment. So. Yeah, that's true. I have experienced that.

Yeah. And then the part that people do take more seriously is he was one of the very first people to say that these symptoms were all an imagined mass hysteria. Okay, so that's the feeling, right? Is that the other big theory? That's today's big theory. Got it.

The official term these days is an MPI or mass psychogenic illness. Okay. And this is the main belief today that everybody just had a stress induced breakdown Because at the time Strausberg was really going through it. They had this is just a quote because I didn't even want to mess up Reformation counter-reformation the 30 years war population growth that they couldn't control increased poverty social unrest bad harvests The worst floods of the century famine sickness lepros leprosy, plague, syphilis,

the English sweat, which I don't even wanna know. Oh, that's episode 450, yeah. The plague and we're recovering from a small ice age. The plague and an ice age are the last two, just to top off. And so- Holy shit, we have COVID and we're still all reeling. Imagine like, I mean, I guess we do have pretty much

all of those bad things happening still, but wow. Imagine just being like, I guess we dance. Keep that thought because that's my very last bullet point of these notes, which we're coming up on. But so they were fucking going through it. And like in today's world in 2024, I feel like I don't even feel like I know with confidence, we on a daily basis are dealing with so much more shit than they ever did. The stressors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw recently, I don't know how true it is, but I saw some videos saying that we deal with more

over-stimulation in one day than a lot of people back then did in their entire lifetimes. I've heard similar statistics, yes. So imagine not being able to tolerate so much shit getting thrown at you, like we are, and you have to deal with all those things in 1518. Like your brain's going to snap in half. So on top of all those bad things happening in that moment or in that time period, these were all religious people that thought that they must not be doing good enough or God must be punishing

them because they're so sinful. Otherwise all these things wouldn't be happening to them. So they're now internalizing it and blaming all these things on themselves. Right now there's shame and guilt and oh god okay. So there was an anthropologist named Erica Borjanyan who came up with this concept, I don't know if she came up with the concept, but she talked about it and was mentioned in quite a few sources about the environment of belief, which was essentially the idea that the environment of belief, which was essentially the idea that the power of suggestion that if you live in a world that everyone is talking about the spirit worlds and God casting sin upon you, or because of your sin, casting punishment upon you, you're going to absorb that because your community is feeding it in your essentially just a group think that all of you think this way.

And because God would punish you, you're now more susceptible to believing that you deserve to be possessed or something like that. And it's kind of like speaking in tongues where like a lot of people in church, like because you're surrounded by one person who speaks in tongues, who really is like committing to the bit

then like all of a sudden you're also speaking in tongues. And yeah, it almost like catch, it's like contagious almost. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, I'm butchering the explanation, but it's essentially the same concept of speaking in tongues is that they saw frow dancing and it just kind of... What do they call it? Religious ecstasy, I think they call it.

Like they would say like, oh, religious ecstasy, one would say like a nun would have these really crazy visions and be like, oh my God, God, because they get so, I don't really know, talk about butchering it, but the idea that you get so overcome with this religious thing that physical, you have a physical reaction and they thought

the Holy Spirit was involved, yeah. Yeah, well, it's the same, I guess, maybe ecstasy if they were enjoying the dancing. I guess I was gonna say maybe that's just for good stuff. I don't know. But essentially they were more susceptible to thinking that God or Saint Vitas would punish them. And so they leaned into that and maybe she just honestly just felt like dancing one day, but then it just felt like she couldn't stop or felt like she was being moved or that God was speaking to her and therefore maybe she thought if she stopped, she would be, she maybe she couldn't stop, maybe she thought she couldn't stop because she was a curse. Spiraled in her head out of control. Yeah. Yeah. So they believed that they could be

possessed and so they were. So it's just, like I said, the power of suggestion. So when people saw frow dancing uncontrollably, all of them kind of fell in line. And then the town literally brought in a stage of musicians accidentally enabling others to become possessed. Especially because in a world of like, I mean, I did not come from a religious background, but I have met pious people in my life. And if you see one person who was being moved by God in a way you're not, maybe you feel compelled to match that energy. And if no one else is stopping, all of a sudden you can't back out. It's almost like power of suggestion. You know, it's like, oh, I guess I feel that too, you know. There's actually a quote from one sociologist who said,

when you have the right beliefs and high levels of despair and fear, then the dancing plague becomes possible. And for the most part, choreomania was a disease of the overburdened, overworked, and overstressed masses. Wow. So in this way, the dancing mania or the dancing plague of 1518 underscores the power of cultural context on groupthink, where all of you just accidentally feed off of each other.

So there's a lot of articles, like honestly, of the plague. I let's say I looked at 20 sources. I would say 80% of what I was reading was people trying to analyze the psychology behind group thinking dancing mania. Like the story itself was such a small bit of every article. Okay. And everyone was just talking about like what it means to be in a community where you could fall into that. But a lot of people say that the dancing, especially for the overburdened, overworked and overstressed, that dancing was just a form of escapism that they justified as religion. And then they believed it so much that they couldn't stop themselves by the end. So escapism sounds kind of victim blame me.

I don't know the right word. Like, I don't know, maybe not. I think it was a way for them to be moving around and doing something. And I mean, I think of it as like when religious people say that they feel moved to do something. I don't even think they I think they really believed that they were being moved by God. Okay, I got it. I got it. I think they really believed that they were being moved by God. It wasn't like agency necessarily. Okay, I got it. I got it.

I got it. But interesting that you mentioned that or have a note on it because you also mentioned TikTok earlier and one of the sources I saw was talking about this dancing plague and they only mentioned it like a few months ago or they only wrote about this a few months ago. And I thought it was so interesting. I don't know how true it is, but it's certainly something that could be talked about at a dinner party if you need a topic. It was really interesting that they compared that town of

Strasbourg in 1518, going through all that fucking upheaval and they were so fucking stressed out of their minds that they just kind of snapped and one person started dancing and like found a name for it and called it God. Oh yes, yes. And then compared it to 2020, everyone going through the fucking pandemic and losing their minds. And people found this dance app called TikTok. And like why on earth would anybody give a shit about a dance app?

Like TikTok only got big because everyone was kind of- Because of Musically, everybody was doing copy dances and choreographed dances. Holy shit, Em, that just blew my mind a little bit. They thought it was a very interesting note. I don't know how true or accurate it is. It is an interesting, even if they're not really related, like the correlated,

that's a really interesting comparison. Yeah. But dancing on TikTok might have been today's version of a collective escapism during the pandemic, which is how we got TikTok today. And then everyone's obsession with sourdough bread. Maybe there was like a ergot poisoning going on. That baker, yeah.

Oh yeah. Anyway, so that's the dancing plague of 1518. I just got goose-cam at the end of your story, like the last line of your story. That's, wow. Well, you said TikTok and I went, I'm so glad you said that because I did not know how to segue into this.

I think I said TikTok about the pasta psychic. So I think I was clearly not on the right page, but I am glad that you used me as a jumping off point because it was not intentional. Wow. And that was really good. That was like the perfect, because I remember when you said, let's plan sang fun for 400 and I was like, I don't even know how to begin to plan something for 400. Like it's so random, but for some reason, the dancing plague feels like the only correct choice. If I didn't come back like yesterday, basically, from our last leg of the tour,

I had plans to do a whole thing, but you know. Yeah, the pasta psychic, I heard all about it. Well, the pasta psychic, but also like I had a banner that's now coming in tomorrow. But I was gonna- The banner, yeah, the sad banner that's coming in after we record 400. I was gonna decorate, and it was, you know, gonna be a thing. You put my 75th birthday banner up. That was really thoughtful. I'm so glad. Okay, so if I miss your actual 75th, now I've been into it.

Oh, perfect. If you're already dead by then or something, then... Woohoo! ...then I'll know the banner's there somewhere in spirit. then I'll know the banners there somewhere in spirit. Well, I was not sure until yesterday what topic I was going to do because I had plans and then when we kind of had to move things around, I was like, well, I'm going to totally redo this in my mind and for 400, I I'm gonna skip the usual, just normal notes. And I'm gonna do something that I do occasionally, which is cover a chapter from our book,

a story that I wrote about in the book. And the reason that I feel like this is a good fit is that for 400, we just released our second book. This is today, as we record this, marks one week of it being out in the world, our little baby. And I thought, what story should I read? I skimmed through it and I found the gayest story

I could find or one of the gayest. And I thought 400, why not just share like a gay love story gone wrong, you know? Sure, I love that. Also- It fits, right? The theme? Just tell me yes. Yes. Also, it's a gay old time over here. It sure is.

Also, this is one of those things where I was saying, reflecting back on 400 episodes, never thought 400 weeks after we started episode one, we would have two books. Oh my God, 400 weeks. See, now that's where my brain goes, oh, I never thought about it like that. It also scares you. It's like, think of how Oh my God, 400 weeks. See, now that's where my brain goes, oh, I never thought about it like that. It also scares you. It's like think of how much can happen in 400 weeks.

That's so scary, because a lot has happened, including COVID. Yeah. And the rise of TikTok. It's been an eventful 400 weeks. My entire relationship with Alison has been 400 weeks. Oh, for God's sake, you're right. It's been a doozy.

I'm glad we're still going, because if we ended right now, I think I'd be in a tailspin for the rest of my life. What was that 400 weeks? But instead, let's just stay in, kind of like the dancers, let's just stay in it and not try to escape and understand it. Let's just stay in the moment.

Sure, sure. This is the story of Alice in Freedom, and it's based in Memphis, Tennessee, or at least that was the chapter that I wrote it in. It's based around the Memphis area. And I of course pulled the actual chapter with M's asides in it to make sure I get all, you know what I like to do is that I like to tell the story

and then I like to see if you respond with the same. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, does Michelle make an appearance again? Who's Michelle? Oh, I thought you meant Michael's the craft store. I was like, I mean, maybe. Okay, but if I mentioned Michael's in this story, that would be just a... Oh my God.

I was like, Michelle? What? Okay. Yeah, Michelle might come back. I don't know. Listen. She made a prominent appearance last time, so. She sure did.

I don't think, I hope she doesn't know about that. I don't know if it ever got back to her. We just kept talking about it, is the thing. I mean, whatever, it's too late. Too late now. This is the story of Alice in Freedom. Now, like I said, this is a very gay story, but it's also from the 19th century.

So it is an old, as you said, this is a very gay story, but it's also from the 19th century. So it is an old, as you said, a gay old time. Gay old time. What song is that? The Flintstones. Oh yeah. So born in 1872, Alice Mitchell, as I put in the book with little squiggles,

wasn't like other girls. She never is. She never is. And I've always said that. While her sisters busied themselves with the usual girly stuff, dolls, boys, et cetera, Alice was distant and even dismissive of any young men who approached her.

You go girl. You wrote same girl. Very close though. Good job. Oh. As a teenager, Alice went to a school. She was sent away to a school because she was kind of like from that upper echelon of society.

And I wrote here that it sounds like a fictional place. It's called the Higbee School for Young Ladies. It does sound like that for sure. Doesn't it sound like a fake place? Like Miss Higbee is running it and she's gonna... It sounds like something on Oh Yeah, Oh Yeah cartoons. What's Oh Yeah, Oh Yeah cartoons? Am I okay? I'm oh yeah, oh yeah, cartoons. What's oh yeah, oh yeah, cartoons?

Christine Schieffer. Am I okay? From before like cartoons, like a show. I don't think I've, what is oh yeah about? What's a show? Am I okay? That's a show? I feel like I'm having a stroke. I don't know what's happening.

It was, it's where like all of the cartoons on Cartoon Network got their start. Like Fairly OddParents, which I guess Nickelodeon. Like that started over there. Is that a channel? It's a show. It's a show called. It's a show, but why?

It's a show called Oh Yeah, Oh Yeah Cartoons. And then they would do little, in hindsight I'm guessing it's like people would do shorts that got submitted there. Oh, and then they would like sometimes branch into their own show. Okay, I understand. It was like a chance for them to test market the shorts

to see if they deserve their own series. Yeah, I feel like I never. Remember like, you don't remember, like Fairly Oddparents and Cosmo had a really deep voice. No. That was, oh yeah, oh yeah, cartoons. Like maybe if I watched it, but I don't have a memory of that.

Like I remember all the Nickelodeon shows, but I don't remember, oh yeah. Was that on Nickelodeon? I think it was on Cartoon Network. Oh. This was something for many of you to probably go binge later today. Oh, it was Nickelodeon, okay.

It was part of their Nickelodeon animation studio hosted by a variety of school children. That's nice. That's a really weird- Mrs. Higbee's children. Mrs. Higbee's children all lined up in a straight line. During recess they would host, oh yeah, oh yeah, cartoons. And she would walk around with her little switch.

A ruler, girl. A ruler, yeah, there you go. Okay, sorry. Anyway, let's get back to this. So I clearly am a bad millennial, I guess, but we're gonna go back to the Higbee School for young ladies in Memphis. And this is where Alice crossed paths with fellow student, Frieda Ward.

And Frieda and Alice hit it off right away. I thought this was kind of cute. Alice called Frieda Fred, like as a nickname, which I thought was pretty adorable. They were very physically affectionate with one another. Like they were BFFs, but also they would publicly hold hands, hug, kiss. And the wildest part to me about this

is that that was completely normal back then for girls to do. Like they called it, there's a name for it. I'm wondering if you remember the name for it There's a certain word they used for girls kind of having these like physical affectionate

relationships Being gay no, I don't know certainly not that meant no I really I don't know what it was called chumming No, I did not know that. Yeah, and chumming to me, I always thought, especially when you've talked about the South, it's like, isn't that how you do catch catfish or something? I was like, isn't that like a fishing term? Oh, chum bucket, yeah. So I thought like, isn't that like a fishing term?

But I guess- Also, I always heard why so glum chum, and now I'm like, oh, why in the closet lesbian? That's what it sounds like. Same difference, basically translation. No, I'm just kidding. But no, I always heard it as like chum as in, yeah, something with like seafood.

Yeah. And then, or maybe not seafood, but something of the sea. It's like fish guts, I think. Yeah, and then, or I always heard it as like, like a friendly thing, like oh my chummy. And I think that's why they say it, like, oh, it's just between friends. It's not like anything.

Because the reason they said that this was okay is because it was considered practice, youthful practice for their future heterosexual marriages. I literally ought to die. I ought to die. Like what? You just like make out with your girlfriends to practice. Okay, sure, I guess.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I do know quite a few older women, because of course, as soon as you come out of the closet, they're all like, oh, we've all had a moment like that. Yeah, yeah. And then they're telling on themselves and they don't realize it. And it's like, oh, we're just experimenting,

or, you know, a phase. I won't say who, but somebody older than me was like, oh yeah, I used to make out with all my girl best friends all the time. And it was just practice for when we had boyfriends. And I'm like, oh yeah, I used to make out with all my, my girl best friends all the time. And it was just practice for when we had boyfriends. And I'm like, okay girl. Like, looks. Okay.

Was it Alice or Fred? Cause that feels very on brand. Cause that is exactly what they did. I will say I'm very jealous of the people who got to be more affectionate with girls in high school. I know, right? It's like, you should have just pretended you were practicing for the straight time.

It's like, I'm just getting chummy for all the men. I'm chumming it, man. For all the men I'm gonna make out with. Oh God, help me. And then I would just be like, oh, I'm 32, but I'm still practicing. I'm so sorry, I just have a lot of work to do. Alison and I are just still practicing,

just holding hands and kissing. It's really hard work, you know? And so they called it chumming, right? And to the outside world, it was like, okay, well, they're just chumming it. But actually, as we can probably all guess, behind the scenes, it was a lot more than just chumming. When Frieda's family relocated to a town

called Gold Dust, Tennessee, they would visit each other for weeks at a time and share a bed and just be, I mean, clearly they were in a relationship. Like whether that was a friendship quote unquote or like romantic, it definitely turned into a more romantic. Yeah, it could have, I imagine it could have started as to people not- As just friends.

Because if it really was normal for the time, like, I mean, I guess culturally- Yeah, exactly. It would just kind of lead to that. Were just practicing for their boyfriends and they realized they were really, Nevermind. They wanted to stay where they were.

Yeah, exactly. And so that's kind of what it seemed like. The only problem was Alice kind of got a little, let's just say she was in too deep. She, yeah, started developing. Stage five clinger. Stage five, oh my God, stage six clinger almost practically. Not to put too fine a point on it, but she was getting obsessive

about Frida and basically her relationship with Frida became all consuming. It's all she cared about, all she thought about. The problem was Frida felt a little differently. Frida was still kind of like, listen, I'm exploring. I really like you. I have deep feelings for you. But she was also attracted to two young men. So she was clearly kind of like, I'm figuring it out, man. Like, I don't know, you know,

don't make me commit to this huge- Don't put me in a box. Don't put me in a box, Alice. And so, Frieda admitted this to Alice and Alice had like a menti bee about it, about like her like employees. She could have started dancing in that exact moment. She may have gotten ergot poisoning that very day

because she freaked the F out and she became extremely jealous, extremely possessive, was like, no one else can have you. And in a desperate bid to keep Frieda all to herself, she proposed this wild idea, especially for the time. She said, Alice said, how about I disguise myself as a man? I'm gonna change my name to Alvin and I'm gonna marry you. Then we're gonna move to St. Louis as husband and wife

with Alice finding employment to support them. I guess still pretending to be a man. Frieda perhaps overwhelmed by this like sudden, like let's run away and get married and whatever. Lifelong plan. Yes, exactly lifelong like marital plans in like middle school, high school age was like, okay. And kind of agreed, but most sources say like she was just kind of going along with it because she was a little bit overwhelmed. And so she said, okay, sure, whatever. And

unfortunately, well, maybe fortunately, the girl's plot was foiled when Frida's protective older sister, who had been keeping an eye on things, found letters between her and Alice. And the letters said, Hey, we're running away together. And you know, basically her older sisters put a stop to it, put her foot down, said, absolutely not. And basically said, you're not, you're not to see Alice anymore. And this of course, sent Alice into an even bigger tailspin, a full spiral. Yeah. And by the way, you put a little aside here, You, your banter says, family finding out before you're ready, it's a canon event, we can't interfere.

And I thought that was really lovely. Because the older sister read her fucking mail. Like, don't do that, you know? I mean, I know you're trying to protect her, but jeez. I can't tell you, I know exactly the uh-oh feeling that she felt when she realized her sister was in the know. Yeah, that's gotta be rough. And so the following winter,

Frieda and her family visited Memphis. And of course, Alice, who was in Memphis, was like, Oh my God, this is my chance to win Fred back. And so totally desperate, she tried to get Frieda to run away with her. She's like, you're coming here for a few weeks, this is our moment, let's run away. Remember you agreed to it.

I mean, it's like that kind of, it like is a little sad and cringy, you know? It's like the other girls kind of like, listen, that was a different time, I was just agreeing to it to, like to break, try to break it easy, but it's just not gonna work. So Frieda was like, no, I'm sorry,

I'm just really not interested, I've moved on. And Alice really lost it. She fell into a profound deep depression. She stopped eating, she stopped sleeping. She only stayed in her room. Her days were consumed by thoughts of Frida. It's all she could think about. She reread their letters,

she stared at her picture for hours. And most concerning of all, she started calling herself Freida. Oh my. Oh my. That's some literal Norman Bates shit. Yeah, it's starting to get a little too unhinged for my liking. She would take Freida's identity on every now and then

and she would sign receipts and letters as Freida Ward, just for fun, like not for a reason either, which is a little weird. Like if you had, yeah, exactly. It's like, okay. Like for what reason? Just cause she's on your mind. I don't know. It's just very strange. And so on top of that, as if that weren't enough, Alice developed a new hobby and that was taking her best friend, Lily on buggy rides to downtown Memphis. But Lily, who thought they were just going on fun little girl adventures, didn't realize that Alice was just doing this to borrow Lily's buggy and spy on her Freedia. Like basically was like, I need your car so we could go spy on my girlfriend.

She's just one of those messy people. Just a messy girl. I'm using you for your car so I can spy on my girl. Yeah, but I'm going to pretend we're best friends because it's easier that way and you'll do what I say. So how did Lily, I can't wait to find out how Lily found out. Oh, she found out in the worst way. So basically they're just going on

and I imagine Lily sitting there like, and then I got this new bonnet with lace trim. Poor girl. And Alice is like hunting down Frida in the streets. Alice was like, shut the fuck up, Lily. I don't care. I like Lily, I swear to God, how many times I don't care about your bonnet.

So super embarrassing. Then on January 25th, 1892, Alice took her family buggy to go pick up Lily for one of their excursions out on the town. And they aimlessly roamed around downtown Memphis, which was not like an unusual activity for two girls, like of their status, just to go- Mozi.

Chumming around town, I guess. However, Alice, as we know, had ulterior motives spying on Frieda. So Alice and Lily, and this is by the way, is when Lily discovers really how bad she is at reading the room, I guess, or like how bad she is at picking a friend. I shouldn't victim blame her, I guess.

How much Alice has been just using her, I guess. Because as Alice and Lily stroll through the city, they did, they spotted Frieda. They spotted Frieda with her sister Jo and her friend Christina heading toward the river. And here's where Alice lost it because she noticed they're walking toward the river to board a steamboat bound for gold dust.

So basically- A steamboat, you can't stalk a steamboat. You can't stalk a steamboat. I've always said that. I've always said that. And it means it's the end of her trip. It's the last day of Frida's in town. So it's like, this is the end.

She's moving home, she's going back. And so Alice is like, this is my last chance. So desperation, she took it. Alice believed, this is what she later said, that she received a telling invitation from Frida through a gaze. Like she said, you know, and this is where also some, yeah, it's like, nothing good's about to happen. So she believes Frieda kind of gave her some, Frieda gave her some eyes and she got some message that this was an A-OK.

So she left this buggy with Lily in it and began running toward Frieda. As she's running toward her, she pulls out her father's razor. Oh my God. And she has apparently been carrying this razor on her person for months, which is also very alarming because like this- So she was waiting for a moment.

Yeah, like less spur of the moment than you would think, you know? She approached Frieda and as she leaned in almost to make it look like, oh, she's giving her a farewell kiss, she took the razor and slashed her throat. Wow. You wrote the incredibly and appropriately gay gasp that just came out of me.

And I'm so, so happy that you really, you really just tracked right on top of that. Beautiful, beautiful. Oh my God, wow. Yeah, it deserves the gasp. It's shocking. And this part, like in any other context, this part would be funny.

It's obviously not funny because of the context, but like just alone, separate, this part just makes me kind of cock my head a little bit because Joe, Frieda's sister, attempted, took her umbrella, which I assume is like a parasol, and started trying to fend Alice off with the umbrella and started shouting, you dirty dog.

And I'm like, in any other context, this would be funny, but not when someone just slashed your sister's throat, right? Right, exactly. So, of course, then Alice is like enraged and she turns the razor on Joe and slashes Joe in the collarbone. And so Joe cried out one last time, Alice, you dirty dog, and was trying to get Frida to like escape to the steamboat

so that she could like get away from Alice. And Alice started to chase her, but an icy slope caused her to slip and she fell down and this, this whole like debacle is being watched by the town and Lily in her car and Lily in the new box. She's probably still in there talking about her fucking bonnet. It's like, pay attention girl, find a new friend. This one's not very nice to you. Um, So she eventually, they're like slipping and sliding. It's icy out there.

She basically, I mean, it sounds so scary. Frieda's just trying to get to the boat to safety, you know? And she's bleeding, her throat's bleeding. I mean, it's just really scary. So Alice eventually does catch up to Frieda and then she grabs this razor and slashes her throat once more. And this is what kills her.

Oh my God. So she's holding Frieda's lifeless body. And that's when Alice realizes there is a huge crowd of onlookers. And she panics. Yeah, girl. Yeah, girl, come on. What did you think was gonna happen? What did you think was gonna happen?

She was clearly seeing red. Exactly, exactly. And so she panics, she rushes back to the buggy. Where, where, where? Again, like her friend is just sitting in there. She rushes back to the buggy, seizes the reins and flees the scene. And she is covered in Frieda's blood.

And when they ask her why on earth she attacked Frieda, Alice responded with a very chilling sentence and very simply and very calmly, she just said, because I love her. Oh my. Yeah. So the following morning, this is also very chilling, Alice inquired about Frida's whereabouts.

And everyone was like, girl, she's dead. You killed her. So she- She's almost like- She's not with us. She's on- She's not of this planet. She's on a different planet right now.

She is like so dissociated from herself. It's like scary because she- Did she ask like, hmm, did I get away with this? What are people gonna say when I ask where she is? No, I think she really had just concocted some narrative in her head because when she found out that Frida was in the mortuary, she had like a full blown panic attack,

realizing like, oh, that was real, that really happened. And she- Wasn't a dream. It was no- It was no- Was no psychic pasta, girl. I know, I wish. Like if we could trade those out

and the psychic pasta was real and this was a dream, I wish we could, that would be great. If I know how to yank her out into this realm, I will. Don't worry. I know, I know, I wish we could. So upon learning that Frieda was at the mortuary, Alice broke down in tears. She kept begging her mother to let her lie next to the body, which like doesn't feel like her mother's job.

It feels like Frieda's mother's, you know, it's like. If it's someone's job, it's really not your mom. It's not her, right, exactly. If it's anyone's job, which yeah, probably is not. But I just found this to be very Edgar Allan Poe, like, oops, I killed her. Can I lay next to her and just like, love her forever now that she's mine forever?

You know, just like the little. And also, by the way, guess who's not, like even if Frieda's mom would give that okay to somebody, it wouldn't be to her killer. Oh, certainly not, exactly. Talk about reading the room wrong. I mean, this is, you're really the last person they wanna see.

So Alice was declared, quote, presently insane and she was sentenced to the Western State Hospital for the Insane in Boulevard, Tennessee. And when testifying, she further detailed her motive for the murder. She explained that if they could not marry, then there was no reason for either of them to live. Well, they can't, can't marry a dead person, my friend. I know, right? And she said, no one else can marry Frida now, so that's good. And everyone was like, wow, you've really, you've really done it, huh? So during her time at the hospital, Alice continued to passionately kiss photographs of Frida and cut out newspaper clippings about her. At the time, the terms lesbian and homosexual

were not commonly used in the US, of course. And Alice's condition, as I called it, was instead referred to as sexual inversion, where a person inappropriately assumes the characteristics of the opposite sex. Okay. Hmm, and you wrote, lock me up. And I always had that too. Oh my God.

I meant it, so. I know you did. So because it was such a foreign too. I mean, I meant it, so. I know you did. So because it was such a foreign concept, I guess, to people that a woman could have murdered another woman because of romance, like people just could not get that in their heads, you know? Sure. Like the jealousy angle.

They must have assumed that, like there must have been a man between them or something. Yes, okay. That is, I literally wrote, they had bat shit theories, including the idea that Alice and Frieda were fighting over a man, because that's the only way their minds could comprehend like why a woman would hurt another,

or a girl would hurt another girl. And somehow that made more sense than the notion of like two women being romantically attracted to each other, you know, or at least one woman being romantically attracted to the other, you know. Yeah. So in 1898, Alice reportedly died of tuberculosis. However, one of her attorneys later claimed

in an interview that she had died by suicide. So that is like quite an alarming difference in the account. I don't know which one it really is, but apparently one of her attorneys claimed that she died by suicide by jumping into a water tower, which like, I feel like that would have been notated somewhere. And like, but also why would you make that up? I don't, I don't really know.

It's just a weird kind of a strange, um, trying to think water tower, like Romeo and Juliet tower. I mean, yeah, it does. It only, it sort of tracks when you think she said like, neither of us should live if we can't get married. So it's like, I guess she's kind of like upholding that end of that statement, but it's really, really upsetting. In any case, regardless of the cause, some maintain that Alice died of a broken heart.

It sounds like she was not gonna let go of that obsession anytime soon. So it feels like she was not doing well. And then that is pretty much the end of the story. I wanted to bring a short one today, but I do have a fun fact for you here. That's at the end of the chapter. The term Boston marriage,

which was coined around the same time as chumming, referred to a living arrangement between two women with no need for a man's financial support. Some of these relationships were platonic while others hinted at something more intimate. Ooh la la. So you're saying I have a chance, Christine. Your roommates, yeah.

That's similar to like a lavender marriage, I guess. Well, lavender marriage, I think, is just any two queer people. So especially like in the past, it was like a gay man and a lesbian. Yeah, I think- As each other's beards. Yes, yes. I think it's a similar concept.

I feel like a Boston marriage was sort of the idea of like people who are well off. Like, you know how they would say like, oh, two sisters were spinsters and they moved in together. Like a lot of times it was that. It was like two women who just didn't have another option except to move in with each other because they're friends and roommates and they don't have a husband.

And it was like so weird back then, but nowadays it's like, oh no, we all live with different people, you know? But back then it was like very weird. And I think sometimes of course it was kind of rumored that people in these situations were romantically involved, but like that was usually just rumors. And typically they would just use the term

to describe two women living together, probably because they're spinsters or maybe they're in love, who knows? Maybe, maybe both. Honestly? Best of both worlds. Why not both? I agree with that actually, that's a good turnout.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Well, thank you for giving me a gay story. It was probably the sadder of gay stories I've heard, but still queer and how I make fireworks. Oh, beautiful. Thank you. You should have done this the whole time because it really darkens the background. I know, especially with the light getting me for a moment there.

Well, thank you everybody for coming to our 400th. What's the what's the you know how it's like paper is the first year. Oh, yeah. What's there a 400th? What's a 400th anniversary? I'll find out because it may be it's something that I can buy you. Ooh, pilgrims, what? Hmm, hang on. I don't wanna do that. Oh, oh, oh, that's a Mayflower.

Okay, nevermind. 400th anniversary. What do you call it? Like a symbol. Yeah. I don't know that any humans have ever made it to- A material. Oh, your four is linen. Well, that's not helpful. Yeah. I don't know that any humans have ever made it to- Or material.

Oh, your four is linen. Well, that's not helpful. I could get you 100 of those. 100 linens? That is expensive. What's 100 and then I'll give you four of those. What's 100? I think that's probably diamond, so it's also expensive.

I will tell Blaze to get you the best. Actually, I think... Oh yeah, a 10-carat diamond, okay. Oh my, hmm. I'd like a thousand carats of diamonds, please. Okay, nevermind. Yeah, I'm glad that we've got this recorded for posterity's sake.

How about I give you 400 pieces of raw pasta in honor of today's episode? Okay, only if you can read my future in them, though. I'll give you 400 pieces of pasta, throw them in the air, and then we'll guess what happens next. Perfect. What could go wrong?

Perfect. Okay, well, great. Noodles all the way to the top, baby. Thank you everyone for coming to our four centennial. And we will, I guess, see you next week with episode 401. We will, I guess, see it next week with episode 401. Yeah, the second half of this adventure, folks. We're on it together. That implies there's at least 800 episodes in total of,

and that's what we drink one day, so. That's like, my stomach just flipped a little bit. I don't know why, but that's an alarming thought. I'm not ending until we hit a thousand. And then, whatever. We can't. Don't, why would you say that? No, we can't quit, sorry. Oh, oh, oh- We can't. Don't, why would you say that? No, we can't quit, sorry. Oh, oh, oh, I was like, hang on.

Why would you say that? No, the spaghetti says, hold on. No, I'm saying we can't stop till we reach a thousand. That's like, we're both very, our brains work the same. We're never gonna stop until there's a thousand, even if no one's listening. Like we're not gonna stop.

No, I need a thousand for sure. Until then, thank you everybody and we'll see you next week and hop on over to Patreon for our whatever we call it now. Yappy hour! To hear us talk even more and that's why we drink.