And That's Why We Drink - E402 Psoriasistas and Amazon Prime Skydiving

Episode Date: October 20, 2024

It's Episode 402 and we're throwing a sardine on it to feel something. This week Em is bringing it back to episode 400, but instead of tales of a pasta psychic - they tell us all about the one and only Asparamancer, Jemima Packington! Then Christine covers Part 1 of the shocking case of Victoria Cilliers. And don't forget to take a nap, drink some water, eat a banana and maybe have a little gin... and that's why we drink! Come see our brand new live show: The Pour Decisions Tour which is sure to bring plenty of gasps, laughs, and frights! Get your tickets at: http://andthatswhywedrink.com/live! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high-intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special.

Some mysteries can be solved by looking at the facts, but in some cases, answers lie in the unknown. I'm Ashley Flowers, and each week on my podcast, So Supernatural, we explore some of the world's most bizarre occurrences and unravel their possible explanations no matter how strange. Because sometimes, to get to the truth, you have to look beyond what we know to be reality, and consider what else there could be, even if it forces you to reconsider everything you think you know. Listen to So Supernatural now wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay. You're allowed to talk now. Okay. You're allowed to talk now. I get why actually now. I get why. Now? 400 episodes in? Why you talk first because I'm doing the countdowns and I'm talking.

So then it's sort of like now it feels like I'm handing the baton once the episode starts, you know, because I'm doing three, two, one. I'm doing hit the record, you know. You're doing this and that, and you're doing that and this. That and the other and upside down and all of the time. And the other and that and this too, I mean. That's right, wow. All that and the kitchen sink.

Oh, did you ever like those cookies? Is that just where you put everything in it? Cause yes. It's yeah, everything about the kitchen sink. I never liked them. I put them. You know how I am. I want every topping on everything.

I only eat the, I get fro-yo, but I don't get fro-yo. I just put toppings in the cup. Like I'm not into, I just want the toppings. I've never enjoyed a kitchen sink anything, but that's because I'm like, but then you can't, the flavor profile is so overwhelming. You know? Exactly. You know what's funny is that like you have the nerve to have

the fancier taste palette and yet here I am saying the flavor profile is overwhelmed with so many. Does it make you feel better about your infantile taste though? Yeah, I feel like I enjoy simplicity. I know what I like and the little things can be appreciated, but you need to like throw a fucking sardine on everything just to feel something. You hit the nail on the head when you said it's overwhelming. I was like, exactly, drown me out.

Drown out my thoughts. Disgusting. Yeah, pickled herring, just wash away any of my fears. I beg of you to stop talking. I'm sorry, we're a one minute and 40 seconds in, so I can't for legal and financial reasons. What should we talk about today, Christine? We what have we done lately?

What's our updates for the the others? Well, you know, sometimes what if that's what we called our podcast listeners? The others. Well, what do you think the others would want? It sounds so dismissive. The others would want us to shut the fuck up and get to the story, but they're not gonna get it. All right, well, they don't get what they want

because they're the others. And I'm back to my trashy river hair today because- First of all, I like how you, it's funny how you have the audacity to call me all sorts of names and trashy classy, and then you use your headphones as its own bandana. Oh my God. I'll have you know, the first time I said Trashy Classy,

it was a compliment. It was a compliment. No, I took it as a compliment. So. Look at these little, I don't know if they're baby hair. I don't know what they're- They're little ringlets. They're learning to curl

and they're not doing it right yet. So then they just do this shit. It looks like they're learning to fly away. I wish I could fly away. Me too. I won't fly away. Okay, whatever, here we are. One time. I wish I could fly away. Me too. Me too. Okay, whatever, here we are. One time.

Here, I'm gonna do this. No one will ever see the top of my head again. Never. One time in Sleepy Hollow, Eva quizzed my brother and me on the now. Well, to be fair, we sort of forced her to, but the now that's what I call music because we had the original CD

and Alexander and I were trying to debate like, oh, what songs are on there? And Eva pulled up the track list and had us guess. We got quite a few. That feels like the exact game the sheafers would have fun with. We, poor Eva, we cornered her. We're like, we took her to a cheese bar and then cornered her and said, all right now. Especially when there's a hundred now albums. No, the first one, the original. Cause we listened to, that was, you know how like there

was a CD that you listened to over and over in the car. And it was so funny because we figured out the ones that we couldn't remember were all the ones we always skipped. Yeah, right. And so, like some of them we were like, that was on there, but we always skipped it. Mine, I never cared for the original now, but I had now four and now five.

And those were my two that I, they'll always have a choke hold on me. I've only ever owned Now One. Okay, you're bragging. I'm not bragging, trust me, it's Lenny Kravitz. He's great, listen, don't get me wrong, I don't know, but it's nothing to write home about. I think they still make Nows and it's like,

Now 236. Yeah, Now Christmas 11,000. They should do a thing where only the most recent Now is called Now and all the others get changed to Then. Back then,000. They should do a thing where only the most recent now is called now and all the others get changed to then. Back then, yeah. Yeah, that will make me feel extra old. But anyway, I also want to fly away because here's my thing.

You know how sometimes we struggle to come up with like, not that we struggle to complain, but we are like, oh, what's the reason I drink? Well, today I was debating between three different reasons. So I'm not gonna list them. I mean, I'll list them all but quickly. I don't wanna get into it too much. So I do drink for several reasons. I am drinking an iced coffee in my bisexual cup.

Okay. Good for you. Thank you. And what are you drinking today, Em? Well, I'm drinking plain straight water out of a straight can. Cause you're so straight and I'm so bisexual. It's the straightest I've ever been. Yeah, love that.

I mean, I would make a joke about you being bisexual, but apparently that's fucking biphobic, according to two people who keep DMing me. The others? The others, if you will. Yeah, so anyway, you dirty bisexual, tell me why else you complain this way. I actually am dirty.

I haven't showered in like three days. So the, okay. So the first reason is because we're in the midst of potty learning. And I've learned how unbelievably talented my daughter is at bargaining at sort of like subtle manipulation tactics. And you know, it's the thing where it's like, oh, well, she's really smart, but also like, damn it, she gets me around every corner and just knows how to exactly I don't know, it's like, oh, well, she's really smart, but also like, damn it, she gets me around every corner and just knows how to exactly, I don't know, it's unbelievable.

I've written some of these quotes down for later usage in like a baby book or something. So I'm like this- At her graduation party, just frame them then. Right, cause I'm like, I'm not gonna believe that she said that. Like in 10 years, I'm gonna be like, I don't think a two-year-old said that.

And now I'm like, well, yeah, she sure did. I don't even know off the top of my head. She was doing the full-on bargaining where I said, okay, well, before bed, let's sit on the potty for 10 seconds. And if you don't have to go, that's fine. And she's like, two seconds. And I was like, whoa.

She's a tough haggler. She started at two. At two, and guess where we ended up? Five. Oh. One would be nice. Yeah, she tried one and I said, that's not how this works.

But just like little things where I'm like, man, are we really haggling? Anyway, so we're doing potty learning as Emma and Eva and I were talking before the show, I got a pee accident update from Blaze. We've had some, let's just say we're in the midst, we're in the thick of it and it's all right. It'll be fine, but we're trying not to let it get to us.

Is it, I mean, is it mainly pee accidents? Cause that feels like an easier quick change. It's both. Oh, she had one of the other ones. Oh boy. Because that's what she's most afraid of. I don't think she's even afraid. Cause I read a bunch of,

there were like six different types of reactions that were categorized on one of these websites. I was like, does your kid fit into any of these? And it was the last one, which is free spirit who just decides that there's too much overwhelming pressure and says, no thanks. And has not, you cannot change her mind with logic or reasoning or trickery or bribes. Like it's, she's like the worst one. Yeah.

And it said that one we don't have tips for. And I went, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. So it's kind of like we've just had to let her take the wheel, right? Because it's like, well, she's already driving away. We might as well go with her, I guess. So she's driving away. And you know what? I think she'll figure it out, right?

I'm just like, she'll figure it out. It's fine. Well, I feel like she'll probably eventually learn with like, oh, well, if you don't do this, you don't get to go to school or you don't get to go here. Cause it's not one of the rules, like you have to be pot trained. Yes, yes. So she'll figure it out once she learns what a consequence.

And it's hard because like, you don't want to be like, you don't get to go to school if you don't sit, you know, cause then it's like, whoa, like what does that have to do with anything? But I think, yeah, I think over time it'll become more normalized. So that's number one. And that was going gonna be my reason.

It's a good reason. Thank you. But then number two is that it's OCD Awareness Week. Well, it actually was last week, I think, or maybe it's this week. Anyway, happy OCD Awareness Week. I did this really unhinged, like, ask me anything on Instagram.

And a lot of people asked questions, I mean, there were like 200 questions about OCD, and I'm so excited, because people were like asking really interesting questions, I mean, there were like 200 questions about OCD and I'm so excited because people were like asking really interesting questions and I sat there and answered a bunch of them. And it was like really cathartic and cool and people wrote in and said like, I've never heard somebody else do this exact compulsion or have this obsessive loop or, you know, and I was like, wow, me neither.

So I met people who had like the same exact compulsions I do and stuff like that. And Lisa wrote to me, texted me separately and said, I have a friend with OCD and I watched all your videos and recorded them so that I knew like I could watch them to help my friend or like be more understanding. And I was like, that's nice. Anyway, it was really cool.

So also I learned there's so effing many of our listeners who are going through it or trying to figure out what they have or trying to figure out. We certainly have a type. We're an alphabetic bunch. Yeah, the others who are all very, we have letters all galore.

Galore all over the place. We're all part of some sort of alphabet mafia. So what was the one question that you got that you've never been asked before? That you were like, finally someone asked. I was appreciative of the couple people who asked, what are your compulsions? Just outright asked because I feel like, rightfully so, people are hesitant to ask like a kind of a direct, like personal question like that. But, and some people weren't necessarily, they just kind of said it out in the open,

but a lot of people said, hey, only if you're comfortable to share, like what are some of your, and the other one that really helped me was, or helped me and hopefully helped other people, but was what are some things you remember being red flags in childhood that your parents may not have picked up on? A lot of parents wrote in and said, like,

you know, my doctor or my child's doctor thinks this might be. They're clocking it now. Yeah, exactly. And so it was kind of interesting because then I got to go back and be like, hey, I never considered that part of my OCD, but it totally tracks. And so the question about kids was interesting because... Do you see anything in hindsight that you had that nobody clocked? Oh yeah, everything. Everything under the sun. I was like, man, I would literally force myself to stay awake every night and pray in a specific way. And if I didn't, I was just completely

petrified that every person on the list would die, or actually the people who had passed already, I was convinced would go to hell if I didn't like do the prayer. They weren't even safe after death. No, they weren't. And so then I would do it, but if I messed up, I'd have to start all the way over from the beginning.

And like, this would take hours sometimes. And I'm like, no wonder I have insomnia now. But anyway, there was like this fear. And then one time I fell asleep before I could finish it. And I woke up the next day and for like days. And everyone was dead. Yeah, exactly. And the whole world had ended.

But anyway, that probably is where it kind of- Just you and flames. Yeah, that's probably kind of where it broke finally. But anyway, so- Yeah, the realization that everyone would be fine. Yeah, there were a million childhood signs, but we'll get, I mean, maybe we'll do an after hours. A yappy hour we could do on that.

I don't know, but we don't have to. But then the other third thing so that I'm not just keeping you forever is that this morning I finally saw a dermatologist and I finally had, well, remember how my skin's always falling off and I have hives and my ears are bleeding. I didn't know if it was about a specific body part or just all of you.

Just all my skin really. So I found out I got a diagnosis. I have, drum roll please, psoriasis. And that's not great because they were hoping it would be eczema because that is not an autoimmune illness. It's just like a skin. But psoriasis is related to,

it's probably tied to the Crohn's. Apparently if you have one autoimmune disease, you're much more likely to get another one. So that's really lucky for me. But yeah, and so it explains a lot. Now I have to see a rheumatologist because of my swollen joints and all this shit, but I am very happy that at least somebody looked at it

and said, oh yeah, that's definitely psoriasis. I love when they have the confidence. I was so happy. I was like, thank you, cause I thought so, but I'm not a fucking doctor. And you know, you never know. When I got my heart stuff, to have them confidently be like,

oh, I know why you have to be upside down. Oh, it's such a relief. I was like, thank fucking God. And they're like, are you happy? You're very ill. And it's like, no, but it's such a relief. I was like, thank fucking God. And they're like, are you happy you're very ill? And it's like, no, but I'm happy you know, and you acknowledge it. Yeah, but then later I ended up having my weird fainting spells,

that nobody had any confidence on. And I'm still constantly always like, well, what the fuck's going on? Is it gonna come back? And so. I mean, yeah, it's like one of those lifelong things. Nothing like a confident doctor. No, and my mom and brother have gone so many times for different things they've been trying to figure out. to kind of come back and stuff. I mean, yeah, it's like one of those lifelong things. Nothing like a confident doctor.

No, and my mom and brother have gone so many times for different things they've been trying to figure out and we've talked on the other podcast, but it's just like you see different specialists and then like second opinions that you never know. But so I feel like after seeing three or four and getting a shot in my butt along the way on my birthday, a birthday shot in the butt.

The worst kind of shot to have on your birthday, by the way, in my opinion, my humble opinion. I think fireball and jello shot, probably top of the list. Anyway, point being I have psoriasis now, yay. So all my psoriasis buddies, you know, holler at me, I guess. Psoriasis. Psoriasistas.

Your psoriasistas. Your psoriasisters. I just called them horiasisters. Where didistas. Your soriasistas. Your soriasisters. I just called them horiasisters. Where did I come up with? All your hoes and all your soriasisters. All my soriasishoes. My soriasistas, step up. Speaking of doctors, this is your reminder

to all of you who've been avoiding it all day, take your little meds. I'm taking mine right now. Thank God. I did that. Some people apparently really appreciated that we were hard on them about not drinking their water. We're nothing if not extremely strict.

We have maybe one rule and it's once a week and it's that you have to drink water. And it changes every five minutes, but right now it's that you have to drink some water. Unless you're me, because I don't feel like drinking water, I feel like drinking coffee. I found out from my aunt when I overstayed my welcome. Yeah, I was gonna say, oh yeah, that one, yeah.

I was asking about family stuff as I do, and I found out that of my, you've got eight great grandparents, two of them, um, passed away from renal failure from not drinking enough fucking water. So everybody drink your goddamn water. Oh my God. I'm a hydrated girly, so I'm not too worried about it. I will. I'm a Sarai assista, so I'm just itching over here, but. I will, um, I will die from something else from one of the other six great grandparents probably.

But I was gonna say, yeah, they'll pass something else down. Renal failure ain't the problem today. Not today. Renal failure. Not today. Not today, kidneys. Anyway, I didn't know that.

I had no idea that that was even like in my family history. Yeah, that's scary. And then my grandma, oh my God, so terrifying. My grandma, yesterday was her 89th birthday. I saw that. Happy birthday. She is my last living grandparent. She's looking great. She's, yes, she's looking swell. She's got, she's got a lot of life left in her, but she's, I was like, oh well, she's always wanted a big 90th birthday party, like celebration. Like if I make it to 90, everyone's gotta come into town.

So you've been hoping she would die before then? No. Oh no, that's just in my family. Okay. This is me saying though, please put on the calendar a year from right now that I'll be busy. What if I take her off my prayer list every night?

No. What if that proves my OCD is like correct? And I'm like, now I just spiral. Oh, grandma's now like, like enemy number one. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. And also I promise you guys, I do not pray every night or ever.

So don't worry. You're all okay. I probably pray more than Christine does. I mean, literally, I think. Especially since I was back in Virginia, they really, they changed me over there. Oh, not again. We got to deprogram you again. Yeah, rewind, rewind.

No, but it was her 89th. And so she's very, she was excited up until yesterday about her 90th. And then I was like, oh, you know, what happens a year from today? Your big bash you've been talking about for a long time. And then she all of a sudden was acting kind of weird. And she was like, yeah, but have you ever noticed

that nobody, nobody in our bloodline has ever made it to 90? Oh, oh, that was a crass joke I made in poor taste. I apologize. I did not know that. We were actually going that way. So it might not be your prayers or non-prayers. It might just be the family curse. But she was like, yes.

Nobody's lived that till 90? Interesting. I'm trying to think. Or a non-healthy bunch. But so she was like, yes. Nobody's lived that till 90? Interesting. I'm trying to think. Or non-healthy bunch. But so she was like, no one's made it. And so she was like, if I make it, I'll be the first. I guess that's pretty up there. I mean, if you think about it, my grandparents aren't quite there yet, or two died and one is almost 90.

She is gonna make it. I don't doubt that. But I also, you know, knock on everything just in case. Of course. But so, anyway, I was thinking like, oh, well, she seems healthy. I mean, I honestly wouldn't be able to tell you what would be what takes her.

She's very, she's healthy and sprightly. She doesn't look like she's 90, I'll tell you that. Did she drink water? She drinks water. She secretly drinks alcohol. She tells you she does and she does. Just gin disguised as water. She tells you that she doesn't eat ice cream, but then she'll go through like a gallon of moose tracks.

That's the spirit. I mean, anyone I know who's made it that long, they're like drinking gasoline. You know, like they're just like, I feel like they've always got some- I know we're just talking about this. It's like, you just end up, I think, formaldehyde in your whole body. You just pickle yourself and you live forever. It's great. drinking gasoline, you know, like they're just like, I feel like they've always got some- I remember just talking about this, it's like, you just end up, I think,

formaldehyde in your whole body. You just pickle yourself and you live forever, it's great. Yeah, I feel like the only people who have made it that far are not the people who are doing all the healthy stuff. No, exactly, it's like, you don't expect it, yeah. My grandpa who made it to 90, or he almost made it to 100. And so is this on a different side of the family?

Yeah, it's not blood related, don't worry. Well, I was just thinking like, okay, so- It was her husband, it was her second husband. So my mom's step-son. So she's saying nobody in your family lineage. In my bloodline. Whoa, okay, I see, I see. But her husband, who was, I guess, my step-grandfather,

but he's been around since before I was born, they were like, what's the key? How have you made it this long? And he was like, the only thing I do as a daily routine is I always take a nap, I always have gin, and I always have a banana. And those are the three things. I literally ate a banana today,

and maybe I'll have some gin later. So everyone drink your water, eat a banana, take a nap, have some gin. Yes! This M, that's the best life advice anyone's ever given me. And he did not make it to 100, but he did make it way past 90. I'll take it.

Yeah, anyway, maybe that's what I gotta tell my grandma to do for the next year, just to keep her going. Just make sure you have that banana. I mean, she probably already does. She probably like picked up on his habits and mannerisms. I've got the nap thing covered for sure. Everyone else can handle everything else. I was gonna say, the only struggle here for me is the nap, but the banana and the gin, I know? I've got the nap thing covered for sure. Everyone else can handle everything else. The only struggle here for me is the nap,

but the banana and the gin, I have got you covered. But MFUNap, I think the two of us make quite a rocking team. So we might live to like 200. Oh, and the podcast will still never end. Yeah, we'll just like be, just talk about Cripkeeper. Well, speaking of our future, I have something to tell you about the story today. Okay.

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As you know, a few episodes back for the 400th, I was trying to do the pasta. Yes, of course. Predictor who is not really- Remember when I thought it was wet pasta, like cooked pasta and you- Yeah. And I was like, well, you just throw a blob of it. Anyway. So that was like, will you just throw a blob of it? Anyway. So that was originally my plan.

And I remember I told you I reached out to even Heather from Sinisterhood and I was like, who the hell is this person? I can't find them anywhere. Well apparently I was not far off. I just had some information wrong and everyone has been flooding my DMs lately to tell me you were thinking of the aspera-mancer. Shut the F up. So was this on sinister hood? I don't actually don't know.

Or did you actually have a dream about it? I like, I do know. I think I've misremembered Aspera-mancer and thought it was pasta. And just thought you dreamed it? Yeah, something. There was a there's a world where we have the answers. There's a world where you say Aspera-mancer and forget. I can't believe that. There's a world where we have the answers, but it's not the world. There's a world where you say asperomancer and forget. I can't believe that. That's the most shocking part to me. So anyway, today is the asperomancer.

I'm about to pee my pants. This is so exciting. I will tell you. And it's not gonna smell nice because I ate asperomancer. I literally almost looked up, you know what? Just for fun, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna take that as my sign.

I was going to look up as my fun fact why asparagus P smells bad. Yeah, it's a, actually, you know what? It's actually the, I actually know. It's a genetic thing that you're able to smell it or not. So I'm pretty sure it always does smell. Yes, but why? Just some people can smell it and some can't.

But why asparagus specifically is what I'm looking at. Oh, there's probably an enzyme. Makes your urine smell because it contains asparagusic acid. It'll a compound that breaks down into sulfur containing byproducts when digested and it's one of the only things that does that. I was really hoping you'd say enzyme. Do you have any other foods that make your pee smell, Christine? Let's start there.

Hmm. I don't think so. Are there? I don't know. I think asparagus is the main one. I think asparagus is the main character for sure in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I always wonder if anyone's got a fun fact about that. I wish I did, but I don't. Because you would think there's got to be another food out there.

Asparagus feels very, like, hyper specific. Yeah. Yeah. Can you smell your asparagus pee? Of course. yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah. Can you smell your asparagus pee? Of course. Yeah, well, no, some people can't. That's what I'm saying. I feel like it's like the cilantro gene or not. No, it is. It's like very similar, I think.

It's like the same kind of like idea where it's like, it's not really important, but. Interestingly, I have the gene where both suck. I can smell asparagus pee and I get cilantro. That blows actually. Yeah, yeah, that blows. Yeah. I can't think of another food that does that.

I think it's asparagus is the winner. All right, well, anyway, now we know it's asparagusic acid. We could absolutely rename that if we'd like, but apparently the world has decided not to. So here we are talking about the asparamancer. Her name is Jemima Packington. Come on, get out of here. And there's surprisingly, slash not surprisingly,

very little information about her. So this will be a short episode. Somehow shocking, somehow not. You're right. Okay, so Jemima Packington, she is the world's first and only asparamancer. You don't say. She is from Bath in the UK and it is nearby,

I always fucked this one up Worcestershire. Worcestershire. You know how Worcester in Boston is pronounced Worcester? So it's like Worcester and then you just add sure. So that's how I have to remember it now, but I never knew how because of Worcestershire sauce and my family like the steak sauce, my family was a big fan of that sauce growing up,

but none of them would have ever learned how to pronounce it right. And so we like made a bit of it as a family that was always called Worcestershire sauce. Yeah, I think actually most families have that because we have that same joke. Worcestershire sauce. Yeah.

Worcestershire sauce. Yeah, Worcestershire sauce. We did the same thing. So that's how I think of it in my head, which is so not right, but. Just say that and then we'll have Jack cut out the last sh-sh-sh symbols, syllables. Yeah, something in there will be right.

Also, she's from Bath, which I guess is like a few hours from Worcestershire. And that apparently Worcestershire is known for their fresh grown asparagus. Yum. Did not know that. But the very first website that comes up, if you look up the asparamancer, is like the British Asparagus Society's website. So I'm delighted about this.

Fun fact, I'm going to look into that later. So, oh, and by the way, folks, speaking of our our classy tastes or whatever, M made fun of me earlier. M and I, one of the only foods we both agree on, we both love asparagus. That's true. But do you like putting stuff on your asparagus? No, I just like it just steamed or grilled,

but some salt. I can't stand grilled. I don't mind it. I don't actually like it grilled as much, but with some little salt and butter. I can taste the scorch marks. Yeah, no, you can. Yeah. I agree. I prefer it just steamed with some butter.

And butter. Maybe some, maybe if I'm getting absolutely fucking bananas with it. Maybe a balsamic drizzle. Maybe. Oh my, oh my God. Say it, I mean, slow down cowboy. Other than that, I like my butter.

Maybe a little garlic. See where we take it from there. You and I, I think this is the only like food and preparation of food. Actually and salmon. I think one of the only meals we both like is salmon, a baked salmon filet. If I ever had to woo you, do you know that's exactly the meal I would make you? And the asparagus, yeah. All right. Whenever you're ready for this date. I made you that once before, but I forget under what circumstances. You made me salmon? I did.

I made you salmon and asparagus once. But this was like, this would have been probably Los Feliz. Oh, wow. Like ages ago. I remember when we first started hanging out, Blaze would cook a lot and I would eat. I don't remember being invited to eat. I just remember taking food off the counter. No, it was perfect.

Okay, great Well blaze was an excellent cook. It was when he got his salt block or something and he was very Oh my god that damn salt block and then we moved with the salt block I mean now that I moved like three more times. I'm like how fast I would immediately not move the salt block to the new place It's just out of control. Anyway, sorry, go ahead. So, okay. She's from a asparagus town, basically. And the way that she does her asparamancing is she will, one source said break the tops

off of asparagus. Asparagus eye? I don't know. And she would either break the tops off according to one source. Asparagus like acid. And she would either, so it was either the tops or it to one source. It's baragasic acid. And she would either... So it was either the tops or it was all the spears.

I think it was the whole spear, but one site said she was breaking off the tops. Maybe that's for specific predictions. I don't know. Maybe it means like the top of the plant, like she breaks off the top to just have the... Oh, like she's going into the field and... Maybe. Picking it off. I don't know.

Some sources said the word spears. So I'm assuming a full stock is there, you know? Okay, yeah. Okay, so she will take the asparagus, she will toss it in the air and based on the shape they make when they land. Toss it in the air, okay. Which like, how high are you tossing it?

That feels like something Leona would do. And I'd be like, great, another mess to clean up. She is the next asparamancer actually. She probably will take the mantle, yeah. I would love to ask the asparamancer who the next asparamancer would be. Yeah, like do they have somebody in mind? You know, is there a stick figure

made of asparagus that lands on the ground? Is there? It's just an asparagus with googly eyes. She's like, this is Wilson, he's gonna take over as- It's actually fucking Junior the asparagus with googly eyes. She's like, this is Wilson, he's gonna take over as minutes. It's actually fucking Junior the asparagus from Veggie Tales. Honestly, he's the OG asperm answer. I don't know who told her she could take that name.

Apparently it's all about the way that it falls and the shape it falls. I always thought it was going to be more vague or subtle than that. I thought like, oh, if three of them are... I thought it would be more of a complicated... Like a symbolic thing. Yeah, I thought it'd be a formula that she would only know. But apparently it's just a shape. So in theory, anyone could do this.

So is it sort of like tea leaves where it's like, oh, you kind of figure out what it's forming? That's the vibe I'm getting. Okay, okay, cool. So she mentioned, of course she was asked about this. How could you do this and not be asked or something? Yeah, her mom probably asked, what are you doing? Go to school.

The asparagus stalks make patterns which I'm able to interpret. When the vegetables are cast, cast, thrown around. Okay. It's like fucking Fantasia, yeah, when they're cast around. The overall picture presents both symbols and letters of the alphabet, which I used to make predictions.

See the- Oh, that's cool, it spells. Apparently it spells. I mean, I wonder if it's like, if enough of them make an M, then you assume M. But like, what if you're missing one and now it's an N? What if you're missing one part of the W and now it looks like a V?

Which is why W should be called double Vs, actually. I agree about that, certainly. Depending if you're a pointy writer or a curly writer. And we should all be pointy writers. Well, no, I guess- I'm a pointy writer. I'm actually, I think I swing both ways. Oh, you and your fucking bisexual ways. You're so greedy.

Just shoving it in your face. So greedy. My lifestyle. Yeah, can you stop? It's just down my throat. You're so greedy. So, so my lifestyle. Yeah. Can you stop? It's just down my throat. I'm so exhausted from you people. OK, I know. OK, so that's the that's the whole agenda. So, I know. OK, so symbols and letters of the alphabet. Seeing the patterns for me is instantaneous.

I love that it's for you when you created this. That's nice. Seeing the patterns for me is instantaneous, possibly because I've had years of practice. Also possibly Jemima because you created this. But sure. Because it's your language you're speaking, yeah. Jemima has been doing this since she was a child. I knew it.

Which I'm not trying to sound like such a Debbie Downer. I just, this is such an absurd story to me that I feel like the comments have to be made a little bit. I know, and I don't want anyone to think I'm just like, you know, mocking her. I'm really not. I just, it's just, it's a rife breeding ground for commentary and laughs.

It's comedy gold. She has to know it's comedy gold. Yeah, like it's funny. We can joke about it, right? Like, let's be real. Asparamancy, there are- Asparamancy. There are so many, so many types of divination. So many types.

I don't know how many are accurate or true, but if you look at the different types of ways that divination exists, asparagus is not the craziest one. No, you're right. You could probably do this with anything, and asparagus just happens to be what works for her. That makes sense. She just happens to be the one that made the news, but there's someone out there, there's literally one called rumpology,

which is literally divination by looking at someone's butt. That's just some fucking bro who's like, let me look at your ass real quick. I can see the future. I can see all the way to the future. Yeah, it's looking wide. It's looking real hot for us together. But like, again, that's why I was like,

I don't know which ones are true or accurate, probably only a tiny little selection of them. Yeah, who knows? She just happens to be the one that people heard about and people have made a fuss over her. Okay. Yeah, so she's been doing this since she was a kid. I do wonder why her parents didn't just stop her.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I fucking like to see you try. Meet Leona, by the way, and meet Leona who doesn't care about pee accidents, and then you tell me how to turn her mouth and not make her stop. She would care if it was asparagus pee. Oh, you know what?

Maybe we'd just start feeding her asparagus. And then she's like, get that away. What a full circle that you would start with P and I would end with asparagus today. That's really beautiful. We are so special. We're so in sync, you know? Which by the way was on the Now 5 album.

Original also! Oh wait, no, that was Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls. Maybe not in sync. People must hate us listening to this. I mean, I do. I certainly hate us. Not a single sentence gets through. Okay.

Yes, since she was a kid and her parents, I guess, were supportive because one of their siblings did tea leaves and so they were like, oh, maybe she's just taken after her aunt. It's kind of the same idea, yeah. Which if I did tea leaves, I would totally influence Leona immediately. And then at three years old, she'd be like, look what I can do with tea leaves or asparagus

or whatever I can grab my hands on. 100%, yeah. So I can see how this happens. Like mulch at the playground. Yeah, and especially if you live somewhere where there's abundant asparagus, sure, why not throw it in the air? It's not even food waste at that point.

Yeah. So Jemima says, apparently I grabbed a handful. This is when she was a child. Apparently I grabbed a handful of very buttery asparagus. That makes it terrible. Buttery asparagus. Oh, no. And it fell from my hand onto the floor and I made a very precocious remark. My parents can't remember what it was.

But the whole. Can you make it up? I feel like that would be you should at least but the whole... Can you make it up? I feel like that would be, you should at least make it up. At least make it up, yeah. My parents can't remember what it was, but the whole place went very quiet, probably because a child just threw buttery asparagus everywhere and no one's cleaning it immediately. What do you do? You're trying to gentle parent and then they throw buttery asparagus on the floor.

What are you supposed to do? My parents can remember the whole place when quiet. It was only when I got a bit older that my mother said she had an elderly aunt who read tea leaves, oh, you saw an aunt, not a sibling. And she couldn't help but wonder if the talent had skipped a generation. Ooh. I like how the story is, I threw asparagus

on the floor one time and the room went quiet. And now I am the asparamanser. And I said something, but I don't know what it was. And I said something only a snarky little toddler would say. I love that though, because you know it was something spunky and it was like, seriously, pick up the goddamn asparagus. My aunt, the one who I overstayed my welcome, she told me that the only, she realized, this was before I had overstayed my welcome. She told me that the only, she realized,

this was before I had overstayed my welcome and I was just a baby. And she liked spending every second with me. Just a little baby. She said the reason she wanted a baby was because she had so much fun with me as a baby, but then her earliest and most favorite in hindsight memory with me is when I like,

was such a disgusting mess in a high chair, I just would throw food everywhere. Oh, that sounds terrible. And she was like, it was my first time like babysitting for like a whole weekend while your parents were out of town. And by the time your parents came back, I was just covered like head to toe and like dirty food. And I was like, I'd like to do this myself. Really?

And then only like 30 years later, while I feel like you've overstayed a welcome. Yeah. You used to be fun. Yeah, but so my thought is like, okay, I threw a shitload of food that day. Why didn't I become the fucking broccoli sparer mancer? Why didn't you? I mean, I feel like your parents must've held you back. That's what it was.

I think that's what it was. It's really kind of fucked up. I just didn't have a supportive unit around me. Yeah, I think that's pretty fucked up. I think if your aunt raised you, you would be the next food mancer with something, some sort of- The mushy pea mancer, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So that's all the information we have about who she is as a person. That's just how she came to be. And then she hit the scene. And a sparomancy, like I said earlier, is categorized as a type of divination. There are hundreds.

There are probably many phony ones. There's divination about reading cheese, about reading bodily secretions, about reading shade, about reading wind, about reading breath, like anything. So this is not as ridiculous as some people might think it is, but it is certainly the one that people pay the most attention to now. Yeah.

I will say, you can find her, Jermima Packington, on LinkedIn. She, her job title is a spare-amancer. Let's connect. Ironically, in experience, she has listed none. And then one of her only interests on LinkedIn is Ryan Reynolds. So... Wait, what? I am all about this gal. And then one of her only interests on LinkedIn is Ryan Reynolds, so. Wait, what? I am all about this gal.

She is cracking me up. I want my fortune told. She says what we're all thinking. She must know something that we don't know. You know what I mean? She's got that British humor, I think. I think so, I think so. She's had many accurate predictions,

at least accurate enough to be on TV and on radio shows. And she has said before, I'm usually about 75 to 90% accurate with my predictions. Occasionally, I get one slightly off where I haven't quite read it correctly, but I'm never far off. Wow. So I mean, maybe she really is psychic. And then she uses that as like a tool, you know, how people will use Oracle cards or just like symbols as tools to process what they're... Yeah. I mean, I know I'm making fun of her, but at the same time, like it's such a fine line

because I'm like everything witchy is laughed at in some way. I know, like it's easy to... This could be real. Exactly. It's easy to... I mean, maybe she just uses it as a fun tool, you know, and it's just quirky and different, but maybe, you know. I mean, it's also, I think, because it's visually sillier, like someone literally just throwing vegetables in the air, and then just making a prediction. But anytime you've seen one of those TV shows of like a medium, and they always have some weird symbols that they go by on their head.

Yeah, exactly. This is just funnier. It's like her tool for it. Yeah. Yeah. It just feels like sat It's like her tool for it. Yeah. It just feels like satire a little bit, I guess. Yeah. It's a little bit, it's a little bit silly. So some of her accurate predictions have been very specific. And I think those are the ones, because when she says she's, she occasionally gets one slightly off. She has been wrong. Like,

so when, when she says she's 75 to 90% accurate, that does mean she's 25 to 10 been wrong. Like, so when she says she's 75 to 90% accurate, that does mean she's 25 to 10% wrong. So- But I feel like that's like when they teach psychic skills and mediumship and stuff, like that's a pretty good average, I think. I think so. Compared to most psychic.

But I have noticed the things that she's wrong about. Most of the time actually, it seemed to be sports betting. So I think if she just stopped sports predictions, she'd be like at a 90 all the time. Oh, hell yeah. She just can't stop. She's like, I wanna figure out who's winning that cricket match.

And the ones that I'm more impressed with are her predictions where she's specific in what she's saying. Like she's predicted them with with maybe very limited signs in advance that something like that was coming down the pipeline. So some things that she got correct were Brexit. Theresa May resigning as prime minister, Boris Johnson becoming prime minister, Andy Murray winning Wimbledon,

Harry and Meghan Markle, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle stepping down as working royals, the death of Prince Philip, the death of Queen Elizabeth II, and big brother returning to TV. Do you think when it's like, oh, she, when it says predicted the death of Prince,

like, what does that mean? Like the day he died or like that he would die soon because he was pretty damn old? So that's what I mean by like, yeah, she is 75 to 90% accurate, but a lot of her predictions are vague enough or they're predictions that probably anyone could see coming.

Right. So, I mean, some of them are interesting. Like some of them I cannot be Like some of them cannot be explained. And there's that margin. But a lot of them, which I will all get into. A lot of them are just like, yeah, he's fucking old. Of course, he's going to die. I see. OK. So it's like, yeah. Yeah.

So it's like, if you're right, 75 to 90 percent of the time, how what percentage of that is like freaky accurate versus like, yeah, anyone saw that. Just like technically true. Yeah. Right. Though I will say when she predicted the Queen's death, again, many of us could have done that. She was old.

Queen. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know why I said he's not dead yet. Right. Prince William. No, Prince Philip is what I said. I said the wrong thing.

Nope. I don't think so. I think I'm just very ignorant about the royals. We know nothing about British anything. I'm so smothered over here. You definitely know more than I do, because I don't even know any of it. I know the drama of the royals, as if it's Gossip Girl. I wish I did, but maybe I'll make you tell me on the after hour someday. Perfect.

So she predicted the Queen's death because she threw asparagus in the air, and at least but maybe I'll make you just help me on the after hour someday. So the yappy hour. Perfect. So she predicted the Queen's death because she threw asparagus in the air and it landed in the shape of a broken crown. Oh, that's pretty deep. And that is how she thought, oh, trouble is brewing. Trouble is brewing. Doom is on its way.

I will say this one's interesting. Four days before it was announced that Biden would be stepping down, she did an interview on a radio show and when they asked her which would be the election winner, Biden or Trump, she said, neither of them, it's a lady. Now I keep on getting this and the next president of the United States is going to be a lady.

She better be fucking right. Stop sports betting. Get up to that 90% accuracy rate so we can feel better. Come through, asarrowmancer. So we will find out soon enough if she was right about that. But I will also say there were, as someone who is chronically on TikTok,

there were a lot of people already kind of predicting that Biden was gonna step down and Harris would take over. At four days before he stepped down, there was heavy pressure for him to step down. So it's sort of like, we all knew what would happen next or we could predict. So yeah, I get what you're saying. It's kind of wild, but also it's like, well.

Yeah, I think this one I just, I'm more biased because I just want it to be true so bad. Me too, I'm like, I'll believe it, I guess. So anyway, but then four days later, after she said that on a radio show, so she was publicly admitting to it, then four days later, she stepped said that on a radio, on a radio show, so she was publicly admitting to it, then four days later, she stepped down, or he stepped down.

And then a lot of her predictions are kind of similar, where you look back on it and you're like, yeah, well, people kind of predicted that, or there was already people. Right, there were signs, or yeah. And when she says I'm at worst 75% of the time, right? It's because, like I said, a lot of her predictions are super vague.

So here are some of the prediction she has made in the last few years. Okay. COVID will exist, but everyone will learn to adapt. Okay. Okay. Scandals in the royal family. Okay. Okay. Unexpected demise in the entertainment world.

Okay. Whoa. Wait, when was that made? That was, I think in 2022. So has that already happened? But also like there's, well, I mean, Every day. That's the thing, that's exactly, like you could always say like,

like right now it's like Diddy, but like a year ago it could have been something else. A year ago it could have been Harvey Weinstein. Like Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein. Yeah, there's so many, you're right, you're right. There's always something. So demise in the entertainment world. Another prediction was that people will keep talking

about climate change, okay? Well, they better. Political figures will be revealed as corrupt. A-listers will come out as gay. Other A-listers will unexpectedly die. So, okay, hold on. Think about A-listers will come out as gay. What is she seeing down there?

The word gay? Like, A-list gay? Like, how do you, like, I just'm so curious how you parse this, you know? Yeah, it's like, does the... Like the Mize in Hollywood, like you're staring at a pile of asparagus. What are you talking about? I want to know what it says. I don't actually, that's a great question.

Has she done any demonstrations? Cause I would love to just see like what she sees. Now that, cause she really does just throw asparagus, often in a field, sometimes just on a surface. Okay. And then just she sees, I mean, also think about it as like a, it's essentially a Rorschach,

Rorschach like blot, ink blot test or something. Like, it's just whatever she sees. Right, but I would love to see it and have her be like, see, and show me what she sees, because I'm sure I wouldn't see what. She has, she's on YouTube, but there are not a lot of videos of her on YouTube. Okay. Okay.

But I would love for her to take people out, like on a field trip. You would think like if we ever did like, like a psychic con on or something, or like medium con, medium con, we should invite her out to an asparagus field. Wait a minute. Yes.

You know what I mean? Okay. Yes. Or she should at least take a class and like be open-minded. Like a minute, yes. You know what I mean? Okay, yes. Or she should at least take a class and be open-minded, like, what do you see? What do you see? Let's bring her aboard. Maybe she can crown the next asperomancer. Now that'd be, now that would be.

A crown made of asparagus stalks, are you kidding me? I know this is like nepotism or something, but Leona better win the crown. This is about a downfall in Hollywood they were talking about. Right, right. Get farm fresh, tasty produce, and easy autumn inspired recipes delivered right to your door. These are restaurant style meals you can whip up

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Yeah, true. Another one was like, tensions will be high between countries. Yes. Yeah. And then with her soccer ones, it's not as vague as this, but when you break it down,

her predictions of sports are, some will do good and some will do bad. And most of the time she's not been totally accurate on both accounts when it comes to sports. Okay, interesting. Which like, I'm not a sports person. I think I could totally, like if I'm paying attention to the royal family drama,

I'm gonna make better predictions on that than like a fucking football team because I don't watch football, you know? Right, yeah, so you'd be like, oh, I bet there's something brewing at the Royals. So I think she's just showing, she's telling on herself about her own interests at this point, because the thing she gets right

is maybe the thing she cares more about versus like, oh, here's the golf results. Yeah, there's those big golf results. So tired, this job used to be fun. Now I'm just looking up golf results in my asparagus. I'm trying to think like business and finance. Like if someone asked me to make a prediction about business and finance,

I would also keep it fucking vague. You'd be like, business will be hard. Yep, there will be tension, there will be highs, there will be lows. But then if someone asked me to make a prediction about business and finance, I would also keep it fucking vague. You'd be like, business will be hard. Yep, there will be tension, there will be highs, there will be lows. But then if someone told me what I think is gonna happen at the end of Agatha all along, my Marvel predictions would be spot on. Yeah, you're like, it's so freaky

how I'm correct all the time. So I wonder if maybe she only, like if she's right 75% of the time, maybe it's because three quarters of her predictions are about things she cares about. Right, like maybe, and maybe she like has that kind of ear on the ground even subconsciously. Like maybe you can pick up on stuff

like just in the tabloids or in the news and like kind of get biased, you know? Yeah, so these are some of the things that she's gone wrong. I did have to Google them because obviously I would not know this information. Because it was wrong. And most of it's like sports stuff.

It's like Croatia would win the World Cup in 22, or like the West Indies would win the Cricket World Cup in Australia, or the English women's soccer team would win the Women's World Cup, or there's a soccer manager, football manager, sorry, where she was supposed to win like honorary damehood. And like that was another prediction she made. None of that happened. Oh, even in the royal family, she predicted that one princess

would become the next Duchess of Edinburgh. And then it was someone else. So like she still gets things wrong. And in 2024, I they in 2024, one source actually decided to count up all of her 2023 predictions, now that the year had passed, and they found out that 11 out of the 20 were correct. So she was right more than half the time. But again, a lot of them were vague, like COVID will still exist, but we'll adapt.

And 11 out of 20 is pretty much still that average, like 50-50, you know, if you're doing like a yes or no answer. Yeah. I-hmm. I don't know. Here are some things that she predicted for this year. Since we still have a few months, she could be right on these things. All right, we'll see.

If they have not already happened. Regime change, this is by the way, I did not like, I absolutely copy and paste this from a website. So this is verbatim if you find this. I'm like, I'm just, I didn't wanna fuck this up. I'm just reading exactly what it says. Perfect. 2024 predictions, regime changes throughout the world.

Okay. Okay. Members of the royal family will get divorced. Hmm. Do you think that's, does that happen? Is that a thing they're allowed to do? I like genuinely don't know. I don't think that's, I mean, usually I think they just end

up not being pictured together anymore. Right, okay. People will become sick of celebrity antics. No, never, never. That has never happened to Sparamancer and it never will, not on my watch. Great Britain won't do well at the Olympics, but then I looked it up and they were seventh

with 65 medals, which I don't know if that's good or not. Well, yeah, I don't know. Seventh feels not bad. It feels like, but what if they were seventh with 65 medals, which I don't know if that's good or not. Well, yeah, I don't know. Seventh feels not bad. But it feels like, it feels like what if they, but what if they were slated to win first or something, then seven maybe is not good. You know what I mean? Like maybe it's relative.

Yes. But I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know what's good or bad. TV personalities will lose their jobs. Influencers will lose their jobs. Influencers will lose their influence. There will be a shakeup within the UK education system. Mental health, we don't use the word shakeup enough.

A shakeup is great. Mental health will continue to be focused on. King Charles will soon hand the throne over to Prince William, that one we have yet to see. Okay. And the United States will have a first female president. So, I'd listen. Okay, I the United States will have a first female president. So. I'd listen.

Okay. I mean, I'm intrigued, you know? Someone, I thought this was funny. I hope this was real. Otherwise it was just like a cheeky way to end an article. But someone asked her after an interview what she does with the asparagus after she's done throwing it around.

What? And apparently she microwaves it for five minutes, puts butter on it and then eats it. Fuck yes. Oh, so she's like, listen, puts butter on it, and then eats it. Fuck yes. Oh, so she's like, listen, my pee always smells. Don't even worry. I'm always in steady rotation. She's probably the queen of that asparagusic acid.

I'm sorry you have that gene, Em, but I hope she sure doesn't. Because that- She doesn't deserve it. She doesn't deserve the gene. No, I mean, she doesn't deserve to smell her pee every five minutes. Right, yes. She deserves to have a happy life. To at least be able to eat that Damis Faragus after using it. Yeah.

Last thing I have to say, though, is that she has done readings for people in the past. So I was onto something when I thought, oh, I'll get her to do a reading for us. Oh, when I thought she was the pasta lady. Right. But so someone else got a reading from her. And this is the the setup that happens because it was a remote service. Session. She did.

Yeah. And this is a quote from them. When I contact Packington to request a reading, she advises me to cast some asparagus spears, number irrelevant. Which, by the way, that means something to me because I'm like, if there's a lot of them you could get a more detailed picture. So like why would you-

Or maybe it's just a big clump. I don't know. Yeah, I know you're right. You're right. She advises me to cast some asparagus spears, number irrelevant onto a flat surface, preferably with a pale background. So she, so the person has to do their own toss.

That's interesting. Cause I thought she has her own supply and she's doing it on your behalf, but you throw it. Yeah, wouldn't you think that for someone who lives in asparagus land, wouldn't you want to use the best asparagus too? But think about this, when you're doing a tarot reading, you want the other person's energy on the cards. You want them to be part of it.

So I wonder if this is like, oh, your energy throwing it up is better than me doing it virtually. I don't know. Well, so she had this person throw it on a surface. I then needed to take a picture of the way the stocks have fallen, mark where I was standing when I released them

and send the image to her. So I followed the instructions, including my feet in one picture, to give an idea of my positioning. So, like, five scenes, like, reenactment, like, the body was here. And five days later, my predictions were in. And the predictions were that a special person

was coming into their life, they were gonna go on a trip to New York soon, and they were going to have a party with the... with people whose names started with K, H and A. Did it come true? I don't know. What? Oh, what the hell?

So those are some specifics, you know? Yeah, anyway, that's the best I can do. But what I propose to you, Christine, is that for this week's Yappy Hour, we throw something in the Erin Maker prediction. Absolutely, oh, oh, you're speaking my language. And now, baby, let's do it. If you would like to join us on Patreon

and see us throw random items on the floor. I mean, I could probably instacart some asparagus by the end of this episode. Perfect, I did think about getting actual asparagus. I can't believe you didn't get some. That would have been very funny, but I do understand that that's probably not your priority right now.

I do have dried pasta. We can just do that. Oh yeah, you could become, oh my God, all along. Which is what we said in the last episode. It is what we said, isn't it? I was seeing my own first vision. This is the craziest thing I ever heard. Holy shit.

And that is the asparamancer. Wow, good job. Thank you. I have to pee really Wow, good job. Thank you. I have to pee really bad speaking of potty learning since I know how to use a potty on like some three year olds. I'll be right back. I'm gonna go put pants on.

Please stand by, we have to step away. All right, I have a story for you today. This is the story of Victoria, AKA Vicky Siliers. And Siliers? Siliers. And- Siliers? Siliers, like C-I-L-L-I-E-R-S. Okay. So Victoria Vicky Siliers was born, speaking of, in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1975.

Ooh. Fun fact. Her father worked as a computer engineer and her mother left a nursing career to work as a stay at home mom. She described her childhood as very idyllic. She was like, we were the perfect nuclear family, like we were just happy. She spent her weekdays playing with friends,

doing homework, school activities, and she loved riding horses. That was her biggest passion. She actually wanted to pursue therapy and incorporate her love of horses somehow into therapy. That was like her goal career wise, which I thought was really cool. She was like maybe an equine veterinarian.

And then later she thought maybe do some therapy with people that involves horses. But anyway, they basically had dinner together at the table every night, two kids, two parents. She was like, it was so secure and so happy, reassuringly normal were the words she used. But when she turned 14, her mother, unfortunately, she said her mom and dad came into her bedroom one morning

and before she got out of bed, they told her, they had some bad news that mom had bowel cancer. Oh shit. Yeah, and a really, really rough one. So she had bowel cancer with a, with a terminal prognosis, pretty much. So she had several years of unsuccessful chemotherapy. And Vicki's mom basically said, I'm done getting treated for the cancer. I'm just going to step back and live life until it's over and just spend time with family. So they went on something called, which I listened to an episode of Red-Handed on the story

because I think every time they cover something that I'm gonna do, I like to hear their take, especially being in London, I feel like a story like in Edinburgh, I got some insight, you know? But anyway, they mentioned this part that isn't in my notes, but apparently her dad said, we're going on our final, our last family holiday.

Oh shit. His mom was sick and this was their last, their final family holiday. And it's like, wow, that's very dark. Oh my God. So it was sort of like everything seemed idyllic and happy. And then all of a sudden, you know, mom passes of cancer. She died like days before Vicki's 16th birthday.

And the family was just kind of torn apart. So Victoria Christopher, that's her brother and their father isolated themselves in their rooms. They started, you know, drifting apart. They didn't speak to each other very much. It was almost like they were in their own little bubbles of grief, like individually. When her mom first became sick,

Victoria had actually thrown herself into new hobbies as just to distract herself from kind of this doom and gloom. She started drumming in a pipes and drums club. And now, Sersha has added, this is not like drums, like drum sets. This is Scottish bagpipes and drumming. So it's like, it's not like sitting down and drumming. It's like more of a spectacle.

Okay. We love a spectacle. Badass, I love a spectacle. I use my spectacles to watch the spectacle. Double spectacles. So she got very into heavy metal music. She basically just tried any avenue she could to avoid the reality of her family falling apart.

But now that mom was gone, Vicki felt utterly lost and she needed something new to inspire her. And she saw a flyer at school for a charity skydiving event and said, ding, ding, ding, that's it. Let's go skydiving. I was, ding, ding, ding, that's it. Really just going for the real adrenaline rush there. Oh yeah, big time. She attended meetings to learn about the event and then she decided she would plan to fundraise

for bowel cancer research and dedicate the funds in her mom's memory. So she was 17 years old when she jumped out of a plane for the first time and she said it was just like a rush. She just knew that was the day it changed. She was in, that was her new hobby. When she landed, she wanted to go again and they were like, okay, I hope you're forcing.

I feel like that's like kind of common of like, once you've got like. Not I. No, have you been skydiving? I sure have. I feel like a lot of people have let like that massive wave of dopamine after the, of like, oh, I did that.

Like I want to do it again. I feel like I hear a lot of people saying like they get hooked the second they do it. I puked and I said I'd rather die than go up there ever again. I never had to do it to know that would be my reaction. You would agree. But I have done, you know, I love a ropes course.

There have been ones where I had to jump out of a very tall tree and just trust that the rope was gonna catch me. And that was horrifying. And then when I did it, I did have that dopamine fix of like, oh, I wanna go and do it again now that I know I'm okay. Yeah, I can see that. I think the problem with mine-

Out of the sky is a whole other thing. By the way, there is a YouTube video of me skydiving. Well, now someone has to go see that. I think the problem with mine- But out of the sky is a whole other thing. By the way, there is a YouTube video of me skydiving. Well now someone has to go find that. I can't even delete it because it's on their website. So I don't even know. But my mom for her 50th birthday, I think it was, wanted to go skydiving. So we all took her-

I would have said, happy birthday, mom. Find someone else. Yeah, I wanted to do it. I was excited. And then, first of all, I'm much older now and I'm like, no, I don't have the time to risk my life anymore. But also my experience was not great,

but it was not okay. So the instructor was being a little like goofy and playful and maybe flirty. And like, while we were jumping out of the thing, he kept like spinning it really fast. And I got so emotional. And I get, I get sick, car sick so easily. Like I can't even go on a teacup ride, vomit.

So he's like spinning me around and I can't say anything. So at the bottom, I just like hurl. But I also didn't know how to breathe on the way down. This is like where, this is where my brain goes like really nuts because I'm like, beforehand, I was so scared about not being able to breathe. because I'm like, beforehand I was so scared about not being able to breathe.

Cause I was like, well, think of all the air. How do you breathe? And they said, no one's ever asked that. And I said, what do you mean? Like, how do you breathe? And he said, you just do, it just happens. And I said, okay. I was falling into the, out of the sky

and I was like, I can't breathe. Well, it's a G-force. Yeah, it's hitting you. How am I supposed to breathe? And they said, oh, it'll just happen. I'm like, not if you're thinking about it, apparently. Apparently your body's like, we don't know how to breathe. And I could not breathe.

And then he started spinning. And then I landed and I puked and I could barely breathe. It was not fun for me. But my mom had a grand time and that's all that matters. Yeah, it sounds like that guy was just like doing the classic trying to be like cute and impish when like really it's like, oh, you're just actually like not at all paying attention. Yeah, the moment I vomited all over the field, he it's like, oh, you're just actually like not at all paying attention.

Yeah, the moment I vomited all over the field, he was probably like, oh, too far. Okay. Yeah. Noted. Well, you were a bitch anyway, you know, something stupid. No, no, he was very sweet.

I like, he was great. I just, I just was not into the whole. He was clearly not reading the room. Well, you know, I think I hope he at least asked people moving forward, do you get car sick easily? Because I do a fun thing where I spin us around really, really, really fast as we fall thousands of feet from the air. My dad recently went skydiving and he was like, would you do it with me?

And I went, no, I never in a million years would I do that. Have fun. Blaze it the same way. And I have done it once and that's it. I'm done. Not doing it again. I can say I did it. You know. Blaze is the same way. And I have done it once and that's it. I'm done. Not doing it again. That's delicious. I can say I did it. You know, it's the best part. I also went bungee jumping off of like...

She and I had a long conversation about bungee jumping when we saw each other last. And she did it from like whatever, it's like record breaking. It's the longest jump you can do or something. Like it was like she went from nothing to doing the world record bungee jump or something. Yeah, she said like she went from nothing to doing the world record on G-Jump or something.

Yeah, she said like, she was describing how like you walk up to the edge and like, it's too late to turn back. I'm like, ah, I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think you just walk, just leave. You'd have to carry me, you'd have to hurl me off. Like on the airplane, there's someone strapped to you if you're a beginner. And so like, you don't even get the age, you don't have a choice, which is kind of nice because you're not like weighing, like, should I go? You're just fucking thrown out of the airplane.

But I feel like with a bungee jump, you have to make the leap and I'm certainly not gonna do that. No, I think to save your own, to save your life, I would not do it. I don't think I could do it. I literally don't think I could do it either. So let's both just. Okay, just know not do it. I don't think I could do it. I literally don't think I could do it either. So let's both just.

Okay. Just know that if it's up to me surviving or you jumping, I know I won't be surviving. But I also like have no desire to do it. Like it's not even like, oh, I'm too scared, but like maybe it would be fun. I'm just like, I don't have any want to, I have no desire to do this.

None, none. I'll get adrenaline elsewhere. If the world told me you will not bungee jump or skydive before you die. Okay. Fantastic. Okay. I'll make do. I'm going to eat a gin and banana and watch you skydive. You know, I'll take a nap. It'll actually live longer. And you and I are going to have, we're going to be laughing all the way to the bank anyway.

So when she was 17, she jumped out of the plane, had the opposite reaction at me, which was, Holy shit, this was amazing. But apparently being in high school, it's not super easy to just like become a skydiver. It's not the most accessible hobby, I guess, for a teenager, right? So she went back to horseback riding and drumming after the charity event and was like,

okay, maybe one day I'll go back to parachuting, to skydiving. So Vicki graduated, she moved to Glasgow for college where she studied physiotherapy and she really wanted to get into a career somehow relating to horses, but instead she ended up pursuing a medical career in the military.

And she kind of applied to that on a whim because a friend invited her to a recruitment presentation. And like you called it earlier when you said badass because she is badass. So I'll get to that. But her father had actually remarried by this point to a woman named Francis who was like really lovely and cared for her and was kind. So at least, you know, out of all that trauma, she at least got another loving mother figure. So Vicki worked in military hospitals before she was deployed abroad. She worked with NATO on a medical team to provide care for survivors of war and ethnic persecution.

Like she saw shit. She saw shit. Like it was scary. She went to Kosovo for on the ground doing. And the way that Red Handed described it as well was like, you're in this position, you're a soldier first and then the medic. So it's like, you're a soldier, you're trained as a soldier, you're carrying guns, but then you're also the medic. So it's like double badass, you know what I mean? So she's in it.

And when she returns home, of course, there's that readjustment period where people are just complaining about like banal problems and like, you know, as we like to say, first world problems. And she's like, I just saw like families ripped apart and children killed and people raped, you know, she's just seen this horrible war torn area and the most gruesome medical injuries. And then people are like, Oh man,

they ran out of my favorite chocolate cookies or what have you. And so she was like kind of having that struggle to adjust back to being in like civilian life. And Victoria told a friend she needed another distraction, a break from reality. And this friend said, well, there's this adventure training activity that we can apply for through work. And so she looked over the list of courses

and on that brochure, she saw skydiving. And she went, finally, I can get back to my long lost love of skydiving. So she was soon dedicating nearly all her free time to building her skills as a parachuter and earning advanced qualifications. Like she went hard in this hobby. Unlike you and me who start a hobby

and then become experts in a day and then never use it again, she slowly built up her expertise and stuck with it. That's probably a clear indicator if someone is neurodivergent or at least has ADHD, is I feel like if you can't accomplish the hobby and be an expert within a week, then what's the point? You're not gonna do it.

If I can't be an expert skydiver in seven days or less, I'm not even gonna fucking try skydiving. If Amazon Prime can't same day deliver all the equipment for me right now, then in two days I'm gonna be like, why did I order a parachute? Yeah, because every thought I have is so fleeting that you're lucky if I have an interest for a whole week. So, but here's the thing, it's fleeting,

but it feels like it's gonna be forever. That's the thing that tricks you. Well, that's the hyper fixation. Exactly. So it's like- It's like in this moment, nothing is more important. It's fleeting, but you really believe, no, this is my new hobby and my new life.

You really believe it. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna be bored of this soon. It's like, no, you really believe it. And then when it kind of dissipates, you're left with all the sewing needles and the crick and machine and the parachute. It's like, it's not an uncommon conversation in like ADHD spaces to like that we all need to get together.

The irony is that none of us have the fucking brain power to be able to stick it through and actually do this. But the running joke is like, we should all come up with a craft convention and everyone can trade all of their ADHD hyperfixations with each other. Oh my God, I have boxes, hot glue guns, bedazzling kits, Cricut machines, I mean all of it.

And when you're there, you could find something else you're obsessed with and already have everything there. Just buy it and buy the whole bulk of it. Well, let's just get a big, okay, now this is like. It's a hyperfixation swap convention, essentially. But then what if tomorrow I'm like, but now I wanna beat again, I forgot how fun it is.

Well, then you wait another year and you go to the swap and you get your beating shit back. I don't think so, I can't commit to that. The point is it's essentially a goodwill of just crafting. And I might need that roll of glittery vinyl. I know, I understand. I understand.

Oh gosh, it's hard. No, it's become a thing. So I understand. And with skydiving, maybe we would be interested if we knew that our brains would allow us to enjoy it for more than like a business day. Yeah, my brain did the opposite of enjoy it for an entire business day. So I will absolutely

not be interested in this, but you know, something else maybe. But yeah, up in the sky, no, thank you. I'm going to stay on the ground for now. I'm not even doing the ropes courses, just staying down here. Anyway, so she was of course quickly earning advanced qualifications and she ultimately became certified as an advanced free fall instructor, which is a pretty big deal. So in the following years, Victoria would log roughly 2600 jumps. I was going to ask you to guess, but I was like, that feels so random. I don't know what you would guess, but. Well, I was going to say originally, because with my Christian stories, one of the things that a lot of the

a lot of the guys do, heaven forbid a fucking woman do it, but both the duggars and the baits, they the guys, they all get their skydiving certifications and all this because they think it's a skill to help with the Lord, because then they can go into it's a long story. It's a- Go into where? The ocean? They, no, they go into, okay, to some- Into what? To summarize.

I'm gonna lose it. There's a group that all of them are a part of, or a group that they all join, which is like their version of the military called Alert. No. And then from Alert, it's like Air, Land, Emergency, Response Team or something. And they they basically go away to a boot camp where they learn how to do all these things. That way they can go out into the world and I'm sure be strong soldiers for the Lord or some shit like that.

But they a lot of them joined this company called called medicore, who apparently it's like, uh, they think it's maybe a fraudulent company. I don't know. Reddit has a lot to say about that, but they do like disaster relief. And so all of them go get their, their, their skydiving certifications so they can stay with medicore and do disaster relief. And I watch a lot of them talk about their skydiving jumps and how many jumps they've done. None of them have done that fucking money. I'll tell you that. 2000? Alar- 2600. Yeah. Um, wow. 2600. That's incredible. 2600. Right? Uh, what is this? Wow. Please, the way that I could tangent, I'm trying to keep it together for you. I know. I'm sorry,

but what did you say that you thought it was for? Alert? Yeah, no, so they learned to do a lot of their So what did you say you thought it stood for again? Oh air land air and land emergency response team It's through their fundamentalist church Okay, so it's gonna say there's so many different things called alert. So I'm trying to find out. Here it is. International alert Academy. Oh boy. Christ have it. And a lot of the guys who are like, we want to go into the military. They go into alert and then that's like enough of a fix for them.

And then they never actually joined the military. The alert Academy is an, this is from their website and intense post high school Christian discipleship and training program for young men who want to live with purpose and make an impact. We forge men to be spiritually sound, physically fit and ready to serve. Our nine month training program consists of three phases.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, training competence, critical thinking. Yeah, I'll go. Let's see, advanced training, wow. Mentorship, don't need to say it. So since 1994, we have it, if forged extraordinary money would influence their world for Christ.

I promise you I could talk about this for hours. This is out of control. We need to write down every yappy hour topic that we've thrown out there today because I need you to know this is something I have to go back to at some point. I will teach you everything. I will say the gospel does transform a man

and disciple does strengthen a man. So, I did learn that and it's about time we all say it. It's all about time we talk about how camaraderie sharpens a man and hardship matures a man. Yeah, we should say that all this time together. It's weird, the whole alert team is white men. Let's find a man and hold hands around him and just chant these things.

Oh, okay. And that's like going to alert basically. That's like having a coven, I think. Okay. Please get back to your story. I'm so sorry, let's go back. This is so stupid. I'm like, gonna throw up.

I did the thing where it was too long of a story, but I'm very involved in hearing other people's stories about skydiving. I know way too much about the certifications and stuff. I see. Well, that's good context for me to know. And her doing that many jumps is insane. Okay, okay.

So that's good to know. Because I really, when I was going to quiz you, I should have quizzed you then because I was going to ask how many you thought and I thought maybe you'd just pull an arbitrary number, but you do know more about it than I expected. I should have quizzed you then, because I was going to ask how many you thought, and I thought maybe you'd just pull an arbitrary number, but you do know more about it than I expected. All right, I know what you're thinking.

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because she, as Red Handed put it, got the ick right as he proposed, which, ooh, it's gotta feel bad. But she felt like it wasn't the right fit, so she broke it off and ended up actually meeting a man through the military whom she then married. Now, they were living separately because they had different job postings

and Vicki decided to leave the military and join her husband wherever he was posted so she could still do her same job and work as a physiotherapist in hospitals while her husband was deployed, or I'm sorry, was stationed somewhere. So for a while things were good, but pretty quickly her husband became,

she noticed very distant and avoidant. And pretty soon Victoria discovered that he was in a year long affair. And yikes. So she tried to rebuild her trust in him and keep the family together, but she ultimately moved out of their home while he was on a deployment. And with their separation being official, she decided to focus on her careers. So she's working at this point five days a week as a physiotherapist. And then the other two days of the week, she's working at this point five days a week as a physiotherapist and then the other two days of the week she's working as a parachuting

instructor and you know seven day a week seven work day seven day this is clearly I don't do this seven work days a week I don't know whatever she she worked seven days a week around the clock around the clock and one day in late winter of 2009 Emile Siliers walked into the hospital where she worked seeking physical therapy. This man, Emile, he was from South Africa. He had badly injured his knee in a skiing accident, which required extensive reconstructive surgery. And Victoria was the kind of person who like connected with people and wanted her patients and people she was caring for to trust her.

And so she wanted to connect with this man just like she did with all of her patients. But this was different because there was a spark there this time and she thought, this guy and I were hitting it off. And sure enough, they spun into a whirlwind romance. And here's where things start to go south because Victoria later described that Emile

at the beginning was very intense, was prone to grand gestures of affection, told her he was in love with her within weeks, told her things he claimed he'd never told anyone else. And what do we call this behavior? Bad. Correct. anyone else? Just kidding.

I'll wait. I'll wait, we call it love bombing and it's a huge red flag. So he immediately starts love bombing her. He's like, you're perfect, you're everything I ever wanted. I mean, so, and I feel like I've gotten a lot, listening to several episodes and watching several episodes about this, I feel like I've gotten a new insight into

the concept of love bombing. And it's really interesting because the way it was described was just a one way to look at it is like someone is bombarding you with feel-good feelings and making you feel so special to the point that you can't, there is no room to notice the red flags. Like they have stuff to hide, so they're just bombarding you with good stuff so that you are not cognizant. It's the ultimate sleight of hand.

Yeah, it's sleight of hand. Total distraction. It's manipulation. And then of course, because it's not real and it's affection for the sake of affection or for the sake of manipulating you. But it feels so good in the beginning that oftentimes people stay with that person

because they're looking, which I hadn't really pieced together quite yet. They're looking for the early days again. Like they're looking for that like huge affection. They're looking for the early days again. Like they're looking for that like huge affection. They're looking for that connection, that spark, that honeymoon phase. And it's- Especially when someone is doing like,

this is my understanding of it, is that it's the, just like what you said, like the overwhelm of good things, but then immediately like just it going away. Like- It like pulls it, pulls the plug. Yeah, or like a curtain gets lifted. Yeah, so it pulls the plug. Yeah. Or like a curtain. So it's not consistent because that's one of the major differences of like,

is someone being kind to me because they actually wouldn't be kind to me or they love bombing me. And it's like, well, if it's consistent in your relationship, then they probably mean it. But if they're doing it early on, it's a way to try to convince you early on that that you should be with them. And then once they've got you, they turn it off. Yeah, or at least they use it sparingly,

because I will say there are a lot of people who are especially in relationships with him where they would say the second I started to pull away or something kind of went wrong, he would pull all the tricks out again and do the like trick, you know, pull all the stops again, make it romantic again, say, oh my gosh, and that's, I mean,

it's an abusive cycle, you know? That's kind of like my mom, she describes my dad as he was an excellent apologizer when he would, after we would get into this mega nasty, Jerry Springer level fight, he would be the sweetest, nicest, bring out all the presents, blah, blah, blah, do everything to just blow me away with love. And it was just a way to over-correct

to get you to forget the bad stuff. Exactly, and that's what's happening in the beginning. It's like that over-bombardment so that you're not noticing any of the nuance of the red flags, anything that they don't want you to see. And so, you know, he's immediately love bombing her, like very intense. She felt like things were moving a bit too fast,

but he was just so smitten with her quote unquote, that she just would kind of talk herself out of the anxiety. And when he asked her to meet his two children from a previous marriage to a woman named Carly, she was a little hesitant, because it felt like very soon to take such a big step, but she knew it was important to him. So she said, all right, I'll meet Carly,

because Carly wanted to get to know this new woman that her kids would be spending time with, understandable. So Carly and Victoria met. It was fine. Carly was clearly concerned about the wellbeing of her children, which Victoria respected. And at the end of the conversation, it seemed like Carly liked Victoria and approved of her.

So Victoria was thrilled. She's like, few now like Emil be happy. You know, we've, we're all big happy family. The kids can come hang out with us. But of course that feeling was short-lived because right at the end of the coffee session, Carly asked Victoria if she knew about Emil's other children. And Victoria said, sure don't.

Come again? Yeah, come again. So she immediately confronted Emil and he confessed that he had two children in South Africa where he had been born and raised. But the reason he didn't tell her is that he was so afraid that he would drive her away with like his backstory and he was so afraid that she wouldn't understand. And he's so considerate like that. I know it's so manipulative. It's like sick. So he told Victoria that their mother had moved to the UK shortly after him, but refused him contact with his own children. He said, oh, by the way, another red flag,

that Red Hand had also aptly pointed out, is that he was bad mouthing and bashing all his exes and the mothers of his children. It's like, there's just a red flag there. If you're acting like nothing happened in the past that had anything to do with you, it's all the crazy women that did it, not you. You had no bearing on all these breakups.

That's a red flag to me. Like, I'm sorry. I don't believe that you have nothing to do with multiple divorces with mothers of your children. There's a common denominator. There sure is, exactly. If it was one divorce and like that person really did happen to be one of the 1%

like stalker crazy person, blah, blah, blah. Okay, but yeah, if you've had multiple of everything, you look within. Well, it's also the bashing of the people. Like, why go there? Why like, spend time putting them down? He explained that... Or to make them look bad,

to frame yourself as better, yeah. The one, the woman, one of his exes, he would say like, oh, she was work shy, she never, never would, one of his exes, he would say like, Oh, she was work shy. She never, never like contributed. She never did anything. She never worked a day in her life, blah, blah, blah. Ever since she had a kid, she didn't want to work. And then, um, just saying terrible things about the other women and, but making her feel like she's so different and special and not anything like his exes. And anyway,

he said he had planned to tell Victoria but he was too scared. He didn't know how to tell her about his other family and he begged for her forgiveness. And Victoria was like, she really struggled to swallow this apology but he convinced her. So she took his apology in stride and convinced herself like maybe this was just an out of character lapse

in judgment, maybe it was a painful topic he didn't want to discuss. And she just had to trust that he was going to tell her someday. So had she known, however, the details of Emile's relationship with his children's mother, she may not have taken his apology so easily because Emile had actually begun dating his ex, Nicolene Shepherd, when he was 16 and Nicolene was 13.

Oh. And she had their first child just after her 16th birthday. And as soon as they had two children together, Emil went on a work holiday visa to the UK. It was supposed to be like a quick trip so he could bring some extra income back for his partner and the two kids and be able to afford the rent.

But instead, after a few weeks, Emile's mother sat down with Nicoline one day and said, hey, Emile, not only is he not coming back from the UK, he actually married a different woman in the UK. Oh my. And of course, Nicolene is shocked because as far as she was aware, they were still in a serious relationship and parenting their children and he was just gone for a few weeks. And now all of a sudden his mom is like, no, he's out of here and he's married someone else. Beyond.

Yeah, beyond. So Nicolene was shocked. She actually did end up moving to the UK eventually, but she swears up and down that had nothing to do with him. She had always wanted to live in the UK and she didn't move there to see him, which he claimed she did. But she moved there with the kids and she had no plans to see him again. But one day her daughter said,

"'I really want to see my dad.'" And so Nicoline reached out to Emil and said like, "'Hey, it's not for me. I don't really care about seeing you, but the kids want to see you.'" So he told Nicoline, you know what? You've caught me in a pretty wild time. My wife, Carly and I are getting divorced

and the two of them, Nicoline and Emil, rekindled their relationship because as Nicoline said, he brought back all the stops from the beginning. She felt like she was a teenager again, like he was swarming her with like love and affection. And she said, oh, we've just been through a rough patch and now it's our true love story. Now we're like, you know, happily ever after, right? And that's how these mind games work. So Carly soon found out that Emile and Nicoline were together and she contacted Nicoline to say,

nope, we're not getting divorced. We're very much still together. And he has a family with me here. So whatever he told you is not true. So you can bounce as you can. No, she said he can bounce. Oh, okay. Well, he's having an affair with this other woman

and she calls her and is like, no, no, he's cheating on both of us. Oh, I didn't know if she was forgiving of him and saying that we're gonna make it work or something. I don't think so. Um, she and Nicolene got together to confront Emil. Well, I love that story even more. I don't, I want them to run far, far fucking away, but I guess, yeah, it's confronting. I can see why you would want to. Um, but it's also dangerous.

This guy's not a good guy. I don't know, but it just makes me nervous. But Emil saw both women when he arrived at their meetup point and he began cursing at Nicoline in Afrikaans so that Carly didn't understand what they were saying. And at that moment, Nicoline was like, "'Why am I even here? "'This is a waste of my time.

"'I'm over you, I'm over it.'" So Emil made it very difficult for his partners to leave, which is why this confrontation makes me nervous because it's like, that's just another chance for him to like get his hooks in you. But fortunately, Nicolene did pull away and he's just the kind of guy where he's just charismatic and it's like, you don't know how he's pulled the wool over your eyes.

But people just seem to adore him. So Nicolene described it as when he's in the moment with you, you're the only person in the world. But even when they were teenagers, Emile was cheating on her often. And he had abandoned her and her children without warning and married someone else. And at this point, she was like, all right, I'm done. Like this is the last straw. So Nicolene finally walked away for good, thankfully.

And Carly and Emil did eventually divorce for real this time. Now Emil was with Victoria. And when he proposed, she was thrilled. She got pregnant right before their wedding. They had this like very fantastical wedding in South Africa. They were both completely besides themselves in like honeymoon phase and excitement.

And Victoria was so in love and so excited about like having a fresh, a clean slate and a happy future together. She wanted to go anywhere with him, do anything with him, and of course forgive him for anything as well, which he obviously knew and took advantage of. So this is pretty rough. She got pregnant right before the wedding and then 12 weeks in began to miscarry and decided to let the fetus pass naturally. And so she was bleeding and Emile

was disappointed that this interfered with their overnight plans to go see a cricket match in London. Oh my God. Yeah, this is... Tip of the iceberg, I'm sure, but still. But no, yeah, but this is the one where I thought to myself, if a friend ever told me this happened,

the way I would... Lose my mind. Intervene, like I usually like don't mess with people's, whatever, it's, you know, but this I'd be like, no, no, no usually like don't mess with people's whatever it's, you know, but this I'd be like, no, no, no, no, that's too far. Sorry, my friend. He was disappointed because they had these plans

to go to London and watch a cricket match. And he asked if they could still go. And Victoria was hesitant because she was experiencing severe cramping and heavy breathing, a shitload of pain. From losing a baby and also heartbroken because again, losing her first baby. I don't think she gives a shit about a cricket match. Yeah, but she also didn't want to disappoint Emil. So she agreed to drive him there and

they went, but when they arrived, this is so fucked up. I can't. He apparently told her, don't worry, you'll be comfortable. There's like this nice hotel we're staying at. It was a hostel and there was not even a bed. Oh my God. It was like a mat on the floor. Oh my God. And Victoria, Emil and his cricket team would all be sharing a room.

Oh my God. In sleeping bags on the floor with one toilet. And again, she is miscarrying a baby right now. Yeah, she needs the toilet. She needs a toilet by herself. She needs her own bathroom, please. And her own space. And probably a bathtub and probably.

A bed. A bed and tissues and et cetera. And a real actual supportive partner, not this asshole. But yeah, imagine being on that cricket team and like, I mean, just anyway, it's just so sick. So of course- I wonder what the other people on the team were thinking the whole time.

I mean, I don't know if like they told them, right? Like, I feel like that's so personal. I wouldn't tell a bunch of dudes if I was having a miscarriage, you know? But like, yeah, so it's kind of hard because it's like, I mean, do they even know? And I'm sure he's pulling the wool over their eyes and saying like, oh, she's just in a mood or something,

you know, I mean, who knows? Because he clearly didn't care about her actual miscarriage. Ugh, this is just crazy. So it is sick. And so they're all sleeping on the hard floor in sleeping bags and he just said, Oh, I forgot to tell you about the accommodations being so sparse. So in absolute despair, Victoria is looking around and she's like, I can't sleep here. I can't sleep here. I'm in pain. I'm

bleeding. And so Emil said, fine, drive yourself home. So she drove herself home. It was over an hour away at night and again, actively miscarrying drove her way back home because she didn't want to sleep on the floor with a bunch of men and a communal toilet. I'm like, I can't. Wow. Breathtaking. Breath. It is breathtaking. It really is. So this dismissiveness and cruelty just became like commonplace in their marriage. As time went on, Victoria tried to like focus on the good, the early, like try to grasp on to anything she could from the early days, like some hope

that it would get back to that place, even though, you know, of course, hindsight being 2020, we know that's never gonna happen with an abuser like this, but she really tried and hoped that she could get things back on track. So fortunately, Victoria and Emil did end up having two children following the loss of Victoria's first pregnancy.

I wanna be happy for them, but also like, girl, you're trapped, you're trapped. So their daughter, April, was born in April of 2012. And they had a son named Ben born two years later. Born in Ben. Born in Ben. And she loved her children above everything else. This was like her new priority in life.

But those two years between pregnancies and as she was having her first two kids had really been hard on her. And she was often home alone caring for April, sometimes for weeks while Emile went on like shady business trips to other countries. And like she didn't know what he was doing, where he was going.

He left over the holidays and she stayed up late nights waiting for him to text her good night, waiting after midnight on New Year's Eve, hoping he would say, happy new year. And she's home with literally two babies, like two years apart. And he's just fucking gallivanting around. And she always caught him in lies.

Like he would say, oh, I'm at a base without cell service or internet. And she's like, I know the base. Like I am in the military. I know you have wifi. Like you can't, I'm not stupid, you know, but he's treating her like- So that's part of when she thinks that,

when he thinks that she must be stupid, even though it's her fucking territory, you know? It is her territory. And it's like, that's not like a lame excuse anyway, you know, whatever. Like, oh, there's no cell service. It's like, that's not like a lame excuse anyway, you know? Whatever, like, oh, there's no soul service. It's like, no, no. Yeah, give me a break.

Give me a break. He often tried to lie with like vague military jargon and that obviously is even more infuriating to her because she is a veteran and a very accomplished one at that. She knows how the military works. She knows that he's making shit up and just using like buzzwords to try and fool her. So time and time... And obviously, and it's at a point, I'm sure, where she can't even say anything because then you're insulting him and then you have a problem

on your hands. Well, exactly. And that was the other big thing they talked about is oftentimes you're met with these explosive reactions because you're being essentially trained out of bringing up the inconsistencies, trained out of confrontation, trained out of- I can both say we've been there, I think. Pointing out any sort of, yeah, lie or deception because is it worth it? Yeah, it's just not worth it. Maybe if it's worth it, is it worth it

when you have two little babies at home? Maybe not, you know? It's like, it's just, oh, it's so infuriating. So of course Victoria is also finding out that Emil's just having affairs left and right. But of course, every time he deflects it and does the thing where he blows up in her face, tells her she's paranoid, she just has trust issues

because her first husband cheated on her. It's not his problem. So essentially turns all of this against her and just like pushes her down, down, down, down, down. So Victoria learned that Emile would become very aggressive when confronted and eventually, like we just said, the arguments just did not feel worth it, because you already know what you know.

And arguing about it is like, what are you going to do? Just piss him off and then like be in danger, you know? Well, so like you're just gonna end up apologizing. At the end of the day, like, what's it worth if, yeah, if it just goes back to the way it was? At some point, you just have to, if you're in that position, you just have to sit pretty knowing that like, you know what you...

It feels like you're... You know the truth, and there's no point to stir the pot because you're just gonna cause problems for yourself. What's the sweetly, what's the... Oh, keep sweet? Keep sweet, yeah. Just let it be. It's not your place, you know?

And so she feels very trapped and just kind of like she wants this to work so badly and she loves him so much, but it's just, he's not, I would say he's not putting the work. He's actively giving her more work in this relationship. He's not doing anything. She continually caught him in these lies and she was like, it's worth just maintaining the peace

and not bringing it up. So when Emil wasn't shouting at Victoria or denying an affair, he was just like completely ghosting her, isolating her, ignoring her altogether. He rarely spent time with her. He basically didn't speak to her, even when they were under the same roof. So one day while Emil was on a trip to Austria,

he called Victoria and asked what she wanted for Christmas. So sad. She was really happy, because like another thing we've learned over the years through both other people's stories and personal experiences is that The breadcrumbs end up being huge and so you're setting up you're setting a precedent that I Mean mean mean I don't like you you have to do everything

But then when I do look at you and say hey, I care about you. I want to get you a present. It's like look at you and say, hey, I care about you, I want to get you a present, it's like, ah, you know, it means so much more, because relatively speaking, this is the most you've gotten in so long. Well, it's the classic, oh, the highs are high and the lows are low.

Correct. Well, also, it's like, you treat me like garbage 99% of the time, so the one time you're doing something nice, I'm going to gobble it up, because I'm just desperate for anything. Exactly, because it means so much more, relatively. And like you said, the pendulum swings, like the bads are bad, the goods are real good. But then God forbid you don't even like

the time that they're being nice. Oh, that's its own old fucking fight. Yeah, then you're in real danger, honestly. So he asked her, what do you want for Christmas? And she's just thrilled that he's even thinking of her. And she said she would like some slippers. To that he said, well, I don't have much money. Okay, so what were you planning on getting me?

A fucking rock? Like... Oh, my God. And then I were like, not that that's from personal experience. A rock? One time, this is when I was with my abusive ex, I had, they gave me my own gift back. You were wrong. Oh, God. One time, this is when I was with My Abusive Ex,

I had, they gave me my own gift back and said, but not, they were like, oh no, we're just saving money. No, I wouldn't. We are? It's like, it sounds like you're saving money. I spent money to get this for you. Yeah, well, I like that they're like, you're not saving money, I'm saving money.

Yeah, and then I was supposed to be appreciative that they were so financially savvy of saving $10. I was like, okay. On you. Yeah, whatever. And then they went on a shopping spree that night, of course, for themselves. Well, of course, that's different. Beautiful.

Beautiful stuff. So she said, I like slippers. He said, he didn't have much money. So on Christmas day, this makes my stomach flip, Victoria sat there while everyone opened gifts and she was the only one to not receive a single present. The only one. Yeah.

So Victoria really tried to buck up and chin up and get through it. She at least wanted to be a good mother to her kids and she hoped maybe Emil would come back to the way he used to be and someday they'd be back at that happy honeymoon place. But when Emil called Victoria one day to make plans with her, she thought finally her luck had changed,

because Emil hadn't even spoken to her that morning in the kitchen. Like, he just fully, flat out ignored her, much less planning, like, fun activities. So when he calls and says, I have a great idea. I want to spend the day with you and the kids. She was like, I got to jump on this chance. He's finally putting some effort into the relationship.

Yeah, he's contributing. He's asking to spend time together, quality time. So that's huge. So he calls her, he says, okay, let's make plans. I want to spend the day with you. However, she was only a few weeks postpartum. And a few weeks postpartum, you're still in quite a bit of upheaval,

hormonally, physically, et cetera, whether, and it was a mildly complicated birth is how it was described. So I don't know the details, but either way, couple of weeks postpartum, you're at least, at the very least, underslept and hormonally out of whack. So that aside, I guess he didn't consider that.

What a shock. And he said, I know, let's go skydiving together as a family. He's gonna push her out of the fucking plane. He's gonna put bricks in her parachute. What's he gonna do? It's gonna be something fucked up. What's gonna happen? So she's like only something fucked up. What's else gonna happen?

So she's like only a few weeks postpartum. And she's like, I don't know if I wanna go skydiving right now, I don't really feel great. And- Are you even allowed to after something like that? I mean, she's like a certified advanced instructor. I'm sure she can do whatever she wants, you know? I don't think there's like a law against it or anything.

It's probably not recommended. So they go parachuting together. And she had given up her instructor work in the meantime because she felt guilty for leaving the house on weekends with the kids at home. And Emil had cricket, so she couldn't very well let him miss cricket to go skydiving.

That would never fly, get it? Which meant Victoria needed to be at home with the kids. You know what happened? to go skydiving, that would never fly, get it? Which Victoria needed to be at home with the kids. You know what happened? Nevermind, I was gonna double joke you. You know how I hate that. Sometimes it only works, the highs are high, the lows are low. Okay, I'll stop that while I'm ahead.

I was gonna say the joke, I can't stop while I'm ahead. You said a joke, I didn't laugh, and I was gonna say, oh, crickets. Oh, rude. Talk, yeah, you said talk about crickets, and then you hit the button, yeah. That was pretty good. Hang on, quit.

It's a laugh. I'll never know, he'll never be good. It's one of them, anyway. So she hadn't been skydiving in a while, so he basically pushed it. I was like, hey, you know, you're not feeling yourself. Let's get out there and back to your favorite hobby. That'll do good for all of us.

And she wanted to spend time with Emil and she wasn't ready to be like, no, I won't do that with you and then be shut off for another year, you know? So she had to take this chance. And she could not remember the last time he had initiated anything between them. So unfortunately, Emil told her the day of that his plan to find a babysitter fell through. So instead, he's just going to bring April and newborn Ben to the parachuting club. And they together would watch Victoria skydive alone. Beautiful. She was disappointed because she

wanted him to jump with her but Victoria decided anytime with him was better than nothing. In the end though the jump was canceled because of the wind, the high winds, so Victoria found herself a bit relieved. She was like I wasn't really feeling it anyway but Emile insisted they go back the next day and she should get that jump done. It'll bring her back to herself. And although she didn't really want to jump, she was like, I'd rather have just gone

and watched a movie with my kids and my husband. Anything just to be together. I didn't need to jump out of a plane. I only agreed to this because you were supposed to be there. Exactly, like it was only for the quality time anyway. And the infant was only five weeks old. So this is just not the time, right? quality time anyway, and the infant was only five weeks old. So this is just not the time, right?

But she really wanted to kind of go along with this and encourage him to make more of these kinds of gestures, et cetera. So she agreed to return the next morning for the skydiving. Victoria's personal jump gear needed to be serviced after being unused for a long time. So she ended up renting a parachute from the club. And unfortunately, the weather again was really not good. So she ended up putting her parachute in her locker. And she used to work there as an instructor. So she knew like

where people kept their parachutes. She they had like the whole protocol down, you know, she's an advanced certified whatever, she just puts it in her locker and she decides to leave it there for now. So Sunday, April 5th of 2015, Victoria arrives back at the club, jump is canceled yet again. And she texts Emil who says, why don't you just wait a bit,

the weather is gonna clear up. So Victoria says, all right, fine. So she takes a little bit of a nap on a bench and she waits patiently until she's given the go ahead and a plane is finally able to take her on a jump. So she's relieved because like also this has just been days in the making and she doesn't even wanna do it. And now her husband's not even here.

Like the whole point was that they were doing it together. And now he's like, no, you want this so bad. Like go, go. And you know, if she were to cancel, he'd be like's like, no, you want this so bad. Like go, go. And you know, if she were to cancel, he'd be like, oh, so now you don't want to do it? Oh, so you just want nothing to do with me? I try.

It's like, oh, well, I'm just trying right here. I already, I don't know, paid for the session or something. Like, what's the line? Like, why do I even bother? Like, why do I even bother trying if you're not even gonna appreciate my effort? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So here's a rock.

So she texted, she texted Emil. Here's your own gift. Here's your own fucking rock that you gave me. Hello everybody, we have got a spicy ad for you today. Ooh, that is right. Because at funlove.com, it doesn't matter if you're in a long-term relationship or one that is still new and exciting.

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to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash drink. Make all of your cryptozoological dreams come true, Christine, I believe in you. Thank you. So she texted Emil and he's like, oh, just why don't you just take a nap and wait? So she naps there, waits, gets her parachute out

when she's given the go ahead and she's relieved to finally get this over with. So she's the last in the group. There's like a group of 10 or 12 people on the plane. She's the last in the group to exit the plane. And as soon as she starts to fall, she's like, you know what, he was right. This is like such a relief.

She describes it almost as like when you start falling in that free fall, it's like everything else gets drowned out. And this is what she was doing when her mom had cancer. Like she just needed something that like totally drowned out everything else. And that's like me and those sardines you mentioned. I just like just drown it all out.

If you could bathe in them, you would. Just pungent. They do something to you. They distract me from the horrors of life. Amazing that that doesn't make your pee smell. Yeah, it is amazing, isn't it? It's actually amazing, yeah. I think it's pretty amazing.

So she's the last one, as she begins to fall, she feels like that kind of rush of like, oh, this is the old me, you know? And I'm back to normal. This is second nature to Victoria. She had literally done this thousands of times. So she spread her arms, she counted the seconds, and then she deployed her parachute to normal. This is second nature to Victoria. She had literally done this thousands of times. So she spread her arms, she counted the seconds, and then she deployed her parachute and waited for that

upward tug that she was so familiar with. But after pulling the parachute, wouldn't you know it, nothing happens. She's not slowing down. There's no tug. She looks up, she sees the lines are tangled. She thinks, oh shit, but she doesn't panic because she is a trained soldier and she is a badass woman. So she kicks her legs to try and spin her body and unwind the cables from each other. But even as she's correcting the cables, she doesn't slow down. And she's like, okay, this parachute has failed.

So she makes a split second decision to cut it loose. And so she cuts her parachute loose as she's falling from the fucking sky. And she releases her reserve parachute. The reserve billows out behind her, but doesn't tug, doesn't catch. She does not slow down. She could see it was only partially inflated

and she began spinning out of control as she is plummeting faster and faster toward the ground. Oh my God. She did everything in her power with years of highly skilled experience to try and correct the parachute, but it was no use. The other jumpers who were at the bottom already, watched.

Or was just watching. In horror as she plummeted past them because they're still in the sky, like slowly coasting. It's moments like that where I'm like, can you grab one of their feet and like would their parachute catch you? Or are you gonna kill somebody by trailing yourself? I don't know if you can even steer

if you don't have a parachute. So you're just free falling. What if you perfectly happened to land on next to one of them? Like aim. Well, you're going so fast. You'd have to really. Yeah, I don't know.

Cause if you're floating, like it is pretty slow once you start floating. You kind of like coasting and then someone's like free falling past you. I feel like they'd have to do something very acrobatic. But yeah, so anyway, she's trying her best. The ground is coming up at her. And all she remembers is that she heard a metal clank and then it lights out. She hit the ground, metal clank. I'm sure some of her equipment probably, I don't know.

Wow. And that was it. So the other jumpers had to watch as she plummeted past them. She fell to 4,000 feet, collided with the ground below, heard that metal clang and went unconscious. When Victoria woke up, she knew she had fallen, but she wasn't in pain.

She checked for a spine injury and realized she could still wiggle her fingers and toes. Oh my God, wow. She assumed she wasn't injured because of this, but as she faded in and out of consciousness, she realized she was being transported, airlifted to a hospital. So she's like, okay, this must be worse than I thought. Because she's probably just so out of consciousness, she realized she was being transport, airlifted to a hospital. So she's like, okay, this must be worse than I thought.

Because she's probably just so out of it. She's like, oh, I guess I'm fine. And they're like, you're certainly not fine. You just fell 4,000 feet into the ground. Oh my God. Now get this, the fucking guy that she worked with at the parachuting place, at the skydiving place, called Emil

and said, hey, there's been an accident. And Emil's like, well, what happened? And he goes, her parachutes failed to open and she hit the ground, but it wasn't fatal. And the guy described it, he's like, I told him over and over, it doesn't appear fatal, it doesn't appear fatal, she's in and out of consciousness. And he's like, I was trying to relieve him by saying,

don't worry, she'll live through this. And he sounded pissed or something. And he's like, okay. And just hung up the phone. Like he was like pissed off that this didn't work. So, honestly, shocking she survived. Basically falling 4,000 feet at a free fall and hitting the ground.

It's gonna kill most people. And people- It's beyond, it's truly miraculous. It is miraculous. And the person who actually came to, like with emergency services, brought a body bag out of the vehicle because they thought she's certainly passed by now.

So they brought a body bag and they were gonna zip her up right there on the airfield. And then it turns out she was conscious, in and out of consciousness. So it was a miracle really. And they brought her to the hospital. Meanwhile, back at the parachuting club, the staff was inspecting this failed canopy,

this failed parachute, wondering what the hell happened, especially because both failed to operate. And it's not every day someone needs to even use their backup parachute because in 2023, for example, Saoirse pulled a cool number here, 3,655,000 people went skydiving in the US in 2023 and only about 5,000 reported using their reserve

and presumably almost every time it had worked. It had worked, yeah. So there were only 10 fatalities in 2023, making it statistically about as fatal as skiing, like in the same proportion. So the parachutes or canopies, as some people call them, rarely actually fail themselves. It's usually user error, like she thought, oh, the ropes got tangled up, you know? But this was different because she had untangled them

and it still didn't work. So something had gone catastrophically wrong beyond her control and the reserve one didn't work either. So this was red flags galore. This club staff had never actually seen cables tangled this way. And so they actually got out a camcorder and started filming like to just, for posterity sake,

I guess, to say, let's untangle this, get video footage, figure out what is going on. And as they are looking through and untangling, looking at all the pieces piecing together the parachute, they say, and you can hear it in the video, which is so chilling, but they say, and you can hear it in the video, which is so chilling, but they say, it looks like someone tampered with this. And they say, I think we should stop touching it

and call the police. Let's not mess with this any further. I think we need to bring the police into this. And so he says, all right, I'm gonna stop recording. And they said, all right, hands off, we're gonna bring the police in. And it was then confirmed that both of Victoria's parachutes had been sabotaged.

And the rest will be saved for part two next week. You and your damn part twos. I know. I love them, though. Oh, my God. Wow. Definitely juicy. It gets even wilder. I mean, you know, I mean, that's definitely the big, the big plot point, obviously, but just the drama of, I mean, we kind of have a guess who did it, but then there's all sorts of all sorts of nonsense.

Wow. Yeah. Makes sense why you didn't want to go on that trip all of a sudden, or on that... No, weird. Yeah. Couldn't find a babysitter. Thank you, Christine, for your creepy little story. You're so welcome, Amethy. And, hmm, what to do, what to do.

I guess I'm gonna go throw some pasta with you in a second. Oh, my God, how fun. Okay, I can't wait to do a Yappy Hour. We're gonna do some divination. So if you're down to clown everyone come on over. Yeah come to our shows. You can get tickets on our website. You can also get either of our books. You can also get them as audiobooks. And that's why we drink.