And That's Why We Drink - E409 A Traumatic Tern Statue and a Fainting Couch for Two

Starting point is 00:00:00 Christmas time is here! So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,

Starting point is 00:00:56 so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, did it last week, which was December. Oops. But we got bullied. I will not be bullied into singing high notes anywhere. I do think if I told you I was just going to run out to the dry cleaners and left you alone, you could do that the entire time and you wouldn't even feel like this. Yeah. I wouldn't even notice. Time went away. No. Yeah, that's right. I go into like an alternate space. Hello, everyone.

Starting point is 00:01:19 We're in mid December. That means it is a holidays are moving and grooving. And we here over at 98.8 TWWD are thrilled to share with you all of the holiday classics and oldies to That was really good. That was really good. Oh, thanks. I love that. Let's change our show.

Starting point is 00:01:48 Is it too late? Did we already buy the domain for the first one? We could buy two. Squirtos? Yeah, no, we, I'm glad you, I tried to keep my mouth shut. Because every time, I know you want your spotlight moment with that song. Thank you for letting me. Because I can't sing it. I tried to keep my mouth shut because every time I know you you want your spotlight moment with that song because I Can't sing it. Thank you for letting me know you have a way better singing voice than I do

Starting point is 00:02:09 But thank you for letting me do it because I wanted that moment where you introduced Finally waited and then you spoke and then I immediately sang over you and it just like to me was a really um, It felt fulfilling. So thank you for letting me have that even though it was pretty rude of me No, I uh, I know how we have our title card, the What the In that's How I Drink theme song, maybe for our Christmas episodes, we should just have you singing. And like, if Megan could ever put your face

Starting point is 00:02:36 in where the MGM lion goes. Okay. Just being like, ha, soft wall. Did you know, I was gonna say like some podcasts, like Astonishing Legends, they put like little jingle bells during the holidays for their opening music. And I was like, oh, Em's going to suggest that. No, ours is much darker and more sinister. It's me singing at a very unpleasant octave.

Starting point is 00:03:01 You know what? It's a tradition at this point. Unfortunately, it, yes. One day we'll do pass the cranberry sauce, but like we'll have them drop our voices down several octaves and in slow-mo with a lot of echo and reverb. Oh, and it'll be very- It'll sound like a horror movie.

Starting point is 00:03:16 Oh, I love that idea. We'll just start changing the vibes up depending on the season. Wilhelm, besides obviously this show that you got unsolicited and unasked for, why do you drink this week? Why do I drink? Oh, you know what? When we were in Charleston,

Starting point is 00:03:37 I got recognized by quite a few people, which is always lovely, but I had one encounter where someone came up and said, what's going on? You look really tired. I was like, I'm not, I just fucking look old, I guess. I don't know. I mean, if anyone has the right to look tired, it would be us, at least while we're on tour.

Starting point is 00:03:57 But I wasn't, I like literally wasn't even tired. They were like, oh, you just look really tired. And I was like, is that your opener? I don't know, you look tired, shut up, leave me alone. Maybe I should get, what did you just look really tired. And I was like, is that your opener? I don't know what to do. You look tired, shut up, leave me alone. Maybe I should get, what did you even say? Did you say like, I'm not? Or were you like, oh, maybe, to like play it off? I didn't know what to say.

Starting point is 00:04:15 Like, do they know that they've just sent you into a tizzy? Well, now they do. I know they do. Well, obviously, but did they know at the time? It did catch me off guard. So maybe I looked like flustered after that. I don't know. I just I just was like I didn't think That was like I just didn't see it coming. I don't know usually I feel like as a woman myself I usually get that comment when I'm not wearing makeup because it's like yeah

Starting point is 00:04:38 I don't know people like catch like oh you just look, you know, you haven't covered up the Circles under your eyes and stuff. Maybe maybe I mean, I know you never wear makeup, so I don't know. But that's not, I mean, that I didn't mean to like come on here and like, oh, you weirdly come after somebody. That's not what I was trying to say. They're definitely peeing their pants and crying right now. But in the, but in the moment of like, why do I drink? I was like, what's happened recently that kind of jarred me. That was just like, oh, I, I, maybe I am, maybe I need to go to a spa or something. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:05:07 I need to get my wrinkles unwrinkled or something. You should go to those Korean spas in Koreatown where I used to live where they will just exfoliate all the layers of your skin off. I think I need to peel a whole layer off. They'll get it off. Don't worry. No, I didn't know what to say. They're just I think I need to peel a whole layer off. Oh, they'll get it off. Don't worry. No, I was I didn't know what to say.

Starting point is 00:05:27 I was just like, oh, I, you know, I think I said something like, oh, you know, traveling. But then that probably then I like justified that they were right. And like, they weren't. But anyway, anyway. I mean, OK, to be fair, they said you look tired. So maybe they were right. Maybe even though you didn't maybe you do look tired, I didn't. I didn't feel tired. I felt fine. Maybe you had a droopy eye like I do.

Starting point is 00:05:48 I do have a droopy eye. It's called the Schultz eye. Oh, ours is called the Kaiser eye. Oh, hey, all right. No, one of my eyes is like, in some ways hooded. Like when I wake up, I have a little hooded eye and then it slowly lifts itself.

Starting point is 00:06:04 That's why you always make fun of my one eye, because when I'm sleepy, the one eye droops more. And so when I wake up, it's like I always wake up like that. And then when I fall asleep while drinking with you, I do the opposite, and it closes. So it sort of like opens and shuts the blinds early. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with that one eyelid, because sometimes when I get up and I look in the mirror, it literally, I don't have an eyelid. Like it's like completely covered,

Starting point is 00:06:28 but only on one side of my face. And then the other one, my eyes like wide open. It's very odd. It sounds like you're like the Babadook or something. I would be careful looking in the mirror. Well, I look in the mirror and I don't have any eyelids. Okay. I almost called you Renee. That's how bad this has gotten. Okay. No, I don't know. I just, regardless of how I look, if you bump into me, I'm feeling quite refreshed and good these days. So I don't know, maybe you saw something.

Starting point is 00:06:55 Maybe you had hat hair, you know? And it was like, oh, it looks like you. Maybe, and I just looked disheveled. And to be fair, we always talk about how tired and in need of naps we are on the show. So maybe they just kind of like- Put two and two together? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:08 Maybe they were opening the door for me to say something about naps and like that'd be like the bit that I gave off. I don't know. I've just never actually taken offense to that, I think personally. So I don't want anyone to freak out out there like, oh my God, I said that one time or I would,

Starting point is 00:07:22 listen, it doesn't phase me any, but I can understand why it would be, why I would rub you the wrong way, but. I think I was just more surprised than rubbed the wrong way. I was just like, oh, what's that about? So now it made me a second guess whether or not I should go to bed. I was like, maybe I should go to bed.

Starting point is 00:07:39 Don't feel anxious out there, folks, because people have said a lot weirder things to us, and we've said a lot weirder things to other people. I was, somebody at the book signing said to us, I still think about the time we posed for a picture and then realized we never gave them our camera. We were all just sitting there, standing there posed for a picture.

Starting point is 00:07:56 And we think about it every night and it's so humiliating. And Em and I were like, we don't remember that, but we promise we remember things we've done that were just mortally embarrassing. So don't worry, like everybody has their own little, you know, stories in their head, but don't, don't stress. It's, it's okay to say the wrong thing sometimes, even if em roasts you on their podcast. I've said much worse things. I'm not, yeah. I mean, I say much dumber things every day. One time I've I said this at the book signing to somebody else because I was trying to like ease their. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:29 I said to somebody at a book signing, if you're this person, please keep it to yourself because I'm so embarrassed about it. Don't let anybody know that you're the person I said this to. I I was trying to compliment someone and I think the cute aggression came out. And I said something about like, I just want to like someone and I think the cute aggression came out and I said something about like, I just wanna like punch you in the face. I said something really unnecessarily violent

Starting point is 00:08:50 and I meant it as a compliment and I think about it all the time. So. Yeah, well, I mean, it's a good one to think about. It's a good one to ruminate on and really do some introspection. And then half of the interaction after that was me just apologizing and making it weirder

Starting point is 00:09:06 because I was like, I promise I didn't mean I actually want to punch you in the face. Was that the place, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to locate it, but was that the place where afterward we like all wandered around in the store for a long time? Was that that sign name? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:09:19 I don't know when, it's all a haze to me. With the inflatable tiara. Maybe I am tired, shit. Was it the day of the inflatable tiara? Yeah, I don't know. Was it the day of the inflatable tiara? Yeah, I don't know. All I remember is saying something just so fucking wild that I can't remember anything else.

Starting point is 00:09:33 Well, I don't remember it apparently, so don't worry. Anyway, if I look tired, I think I can take that compared to I would have punched you in the face. Yeah, that would have been a much more different meeting between you and a listener. I think if someone said that though, I would have been like, oh, I get it. I don't know why not one would bother me less.

Starting point is 00:09:53 I don't know. What if they said, well, now people are just gonna jokingly come up to us and say they're gonna punch us in the face and we're gonna be so startled every time. And it's gonna be like, no, like an inside joke. I won't, because I already think about that phrase all the time. I know, but I don't. I feel like I've just gotten caught in the face and we're gonna be so startled every time. And it's gonna be like, no, like an inside joke. I won't, because I already think about that phrase all the time.

Starting point is 00:10:06 I know, but I don't. I feel like I've just gotten caught in the crossfire before I'm gonna punch you. I'm gonna be like, what? Well, now that's what happens when we're a team. Now you have to deal with it. You can tell me I look tired. You can tell, how about I get the tired comments?

Starting point is 00:10:19 Cause I am tired, yes. A and B, I look it. And how about C, I don't care. And M, on the other hand, can take the punches. Yeah, perfect. So anyway, I guess I drink because I need to face my aging, I guess. Maybe I just look older when people see me in real life.

Starting point is 00:10:38 A lot of our photos are also like seven years old, our website and stuff. So I don't know, we probably all look older and tired. So maybe I just need to... Maybe I just need to... Maybe you need one of those Taylor Swift back braces that makes you stand up really straight. Oh, okay.

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Starting point is 00:12:12 Please support our show and tell them we sent ya. Why do you drink? Oh, thank you so much for asking. Well, first of all, I went to Walgreens today and I bought this Body Armor and it's my favorite flavor, strawberry grape, which probably sounds gross to a lot of people, but it's really fucking good. And-

Starting point is 00:12:30 Grav-berry. Oh, grav-berry. Sure. Yeah, we'll circle back to that, Em. Circle back to grav-berry. Anyway, so I bought this at Walgreens and I don't know, I thought I'd treat myself to a non-water drink.

Starting point is 00:12:49 But the reason I drink is because of this little fella. Hold on, here it comes. Here it comes. Oh, you got yourself a little... Was it once alive, bird? Ooh, ooh. Ooh, ooh. That sounds like a yes to me. No, he's a carving. I wouldn't do...

Starting point is 00:13:11 I wouldn't... I would not want a real dead bird in my house. That's a car... Like carved and painted? That looks real. It's unbelievable. Like, it's... I literally thought it was a dead bird. All the texture on it is carved. You know, I've always been so jealous of Woodlurs.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Yeah, he like clearly was talented at this. So the guy, okay, so you know how I'm back on, well, you don't know until now, but I'm back on my estate sale bullshit again. As you know, I go through phases. And so today I went to pick this guy up because I won him. I had been, I was in a fierce bidding war for this fella. But morning doves are my favorite bird.

Starting point is 00:13:52 I think you and I have discussed morning doves before. Or maybe you're just like, what are you even talking about? But- That feels right. I think it feels right. It's the one that's coos like in the morning. Anyway, I love morning doves and they always make me think of my stepmom

Starting point is 00:14:07 and this is very full circle. Well, first of all, the guy who made it, okay, look, he wrote on the bottom. I don't know if you can see it and it's upside down, but it basically says morning dove and it's this explorer, not explorer, this like naturalist and preservationist guy from Ohio who died.

Starting point is 00:14:29 And he made, this is number one out of 80 mourning doves that he made. And- The fact that he made that and then thought 79 more for me. I'm like, what, that would have been my proudest joy. To be fair, it says one out of 80. I don't know that maybe he filled up all the 80. Maybe he did two out of 80 and went, nevermind. That's enough. He's like 78 more to come. the 80, maybe he did two out of 80 and went, nevermind, that's enough. He's like, 78 more to come.

Starting point is 00:14:46 Yeah, now they just say one out of 80. But it says one out of 80, and I was in a little bidding war for this guy, but I really, really, really, really, really wanted him. And he's just perfect. I had to put a little wood glue under his foot there because he's a little wobbly. But I think what I'm gonna do is give him to my stepmother

Starting point is 00:15:03 because growing up, for Christmas, because growing up, we always had a lot of morning doves in our yard and my stepmom used to teach us about morning doves. And I don't know, it's just something I associate with her and it's full circle because in high school or middle school after she made me go to Turn Research Island, remember where we had the pointed sticks and all that?

Starting point is 00:15:25 Oh, yeah. Yeah, so after that, as some sort of like, she had some sort of sick gift. I forget what I had like asked for for Christmas, I don't know, some new boots or something. And she was like, here's your big present, and it's in this big box. And I'm thinking like, oh, finally,

Starting point is 00:15:42 they actually got me something I wanted. That's exciting. I open up this box and it's in this big box and I'm thinking like, oh, finally they actually got me something I wanted. That's exciting. I open up this box and it's a fricking, I mean, talk about PTSD trigger. It's this giant carved wooden statue of a turn. And I was like, wah! And I was like, I don't want that in my room. I can't look at that.

Starting point is 00:15:58 And she was like, what, why? And I was like, we had the most nightmarish like attack of the birds incident a few months ago, and to her, I guess it was just charming and delightful, I was traumatized. So anyway, we had this bird statue and it became like this running joke in the family, like, I don't want the turn statue,

Starting point is 00:16:16 even though she spent so much money on it, it was such a big deal, and she had personally carved, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I don't want a statue of a bird for Christmas, thank you, I'm also 14. And then today I bought this. And I was like, oh, this will be a nice, like, a kind of an apology gift

Starting point is 00:16:33 because I was probably being kind of an asshole. But B, like, it's the bird that always made me think of her. And she's like a huge bird nerd and a nature nerd. So I think she'll really like it. So anyway, I picked him up today and he's my new pride and joy. I have you named him yet? I feel like that's coming.

Starting point is 00:16:51 You know, I haven't. I haven't, I could call him Chauncey Bliss, but we already have one of those, I guess. Also, I think you'll get too emotionally attached and then not wanna give Chauncey Bliss to another person. I was about to say, I'm so worried. I'm so worried about giving him away because I'm like, I mean, I assume someday I would get him back in the will,

Starting point is 00:17:09 not to be dramatic or dark, but like, you know, it's not like I'm gifting him like to someone I'll never see again, but. I think about that too, where I'm like, do I want this back later when it's my turn? Yeah, yes. And so I was like, well, I mean, but it, you know, I don't know, I haven't decided yet. I, it is very, I really thought it was taxidermied. It looked so real.

Starting point is 00:17:31 It's just be wood is amazing. It's all wood and he hand whittled it. Yeah. Like you said, it's beautiful. I've always been jealous of whittlers. I say the same amount of jealousy I have for tinkerers. You would, I feel like you though fit that mold. Like you could become that stepdad stereotype. Like I think you have it in you. I've thought about it. I have- Too many sharp tools for me,

Starting point is 00:17:53 but I think you could really pull it off. There are, thank you. There are a few times where I've thought like, I could go for a new hobby and whittling always comes up. But then I always think- Okay. It's a skill that I think I'd get too frustrated about that I didn't nail the first time and then I would give up.

Starting point is 00:18:07 You get it? What? You didn't nail it the first time. Oh. Yes. Well, I think woodworking would be a great hobby for you, especially now that you have a little more space, like outdoor, like a little outdoor space at your new place.

Starting point is 00:18:22 I feel like you'd be really good at it, especially because like I'm not careful enough. Like when I sew things, for example, they go like kind of like this, and it drives my mother up the wall. But I feel like you're very precise. I mean, you've seen me hang curtains, but you're crafting or when you're like doing

Starting point is 00:18:38 even just like stuff around visually, you're good at that. So I can imagine you'd be a good carving person, carver. Thank you. Well, I think I probably learned that from being at the prop house because they tell you on day one there, it's like one bad injury

Starting point is 00:18:55 and you'll be really good at your job after that. And I was like, oh, okay. And then they said, at some point it's inevitable you will have a bad injury. And so just the second you get cocky, you will have a bad injury. And so just- Don't fear it. The second you get cocky, you'll have a bad injury. Don't fear it.

Starting point is 00:19:07 It'll happen whether you fear it or not. Don't even worry. Yeah, they said just be ready for it. And then it did. I had a really bad exacto knife. Did you? Did you have to go to the ER? Yeah, I mean, I probably should have.

Starting point is 00:19:20 Or did you go to the ER? I didn't. No, I probably should have. It's fine now, obviously. That probably goes for most things, yeah. But everyone's got a bad injury. A bad pop-up scar. From my old apartment, yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:35 I remember watching someone have an X-Acto knife injury and it was, oh my God, they had to go to the ER. They had to go to the ER, for sure. X-Acto knife is the thing. And especially at a prop house when you know they're like, I know they say like, oh, a dull blade is worse, but with an exacto knife, I feel like it's so close to your fingers

Starting point is 00:19:53 that like that sharpness. Oh no, no, no. I'm still, I mean, I obviously, I have more confidence using them, but I'm still aware. And they were right. After that one injury, injury become much fucking better At being aware of your surroundings because you know you never want that to happen again. Yeah But anyway, I'll maybe I'll whip out the exacto knife and and risk it all again to whittle you a duck or something

Starting point is 00:20:17 I honestly if you whittled me a mallard, I would be over the fucking moon Thank you or a raven or something. Look, I wanna show you the other thing I bought. Okay. In my big bidding war. I had bought two things and they were a little too pricey for what I was hoping to spend, but oh well, too late. I really wanted them.

Starting point is 00:20:36 Here's one. It's an advertising crate from the 1800s. Let me see. Oh, that's lovely. I know, right? And I picked it up and it is a lot bigger than I thought. Like it's like a full crate. Like you can store like blankets in it and stuff.

Starting point is 00:20:51 Ooh, okay. But how do you clean something like that? Cause in my mind, I'm like, I just feel like it would always smell old and not in a good way. Yeah, I think it'll probably just be decorative for the most part. Oh, and here's the back.

Starting point is 00:21:02 You're gonna hate this part. Hold on. This feels like a box you could put like all the Christmas presents in or something. Something like that, like something kind of more display, display, not like maybe not blankets, but. I do hate the childs, you're right. Yeah, the child on the side is very alarming.

Starting point is 00:21:17 Okay, so what it is, it's like this big crate, and it has an advertising on the side called Snowboy Washing Powder. And of course that was a creepy little like, he looks like a Renaissance cherub dressed as the Pope. I don't know, but he looks very interesting. And I guess he's their mask. Right?

Starting point is 00:21:35 It's a, and it's a crate that opens up on like these hinges and they have all the little wooden like pegs that they show that how they interlocked back then, instead of just, nevermind, it's a dovetail. Okay, whittler. You sound like a whittler all of a sudden. Well, maybe I'll just be your apprentice. Anyway, it says it's from the late 19th century,

Starting point is 00:22:00 so that's pretty cool, and I like it a lot. And it's big and cool, and I just liked Snow big and cool and I Just liked snowboy washing powder and thought it and it looks it looks pretty it's like pretty sturdy So I don't know what I'll use it for maybe just like a trunk in like the entryway Part of me feels like if it's already that haunt you might as well throw all your other haunted shit in there and I've got Oh, yeah, I could just store my haunted shit in there. Yeah. Yeah trap them in a trunk. They'll love that Well, that would have been a perfect spot

Starting point is 00:22:25 for all that fucking hay and haunted arsonist doll. Oh my God, no, no, the arsonist doll. Yeah, so anyway, fun fact, that is what I got at the estate sale this week. Thank you for checking in. I was wondering about your, because there was something backstage you were trying to do on eBay, I guess you didn't get that. Oh, I was wondering about your, because there was something backstage you were trying to do on eBay.

Starting point is 00:22:46 I guess you didn't get that. Oh, I did. That too. Sorry. I did get that too. The thing for a certain friend of ours. Am I losing my mind? Oh, that one, the gnomes.

Starting point is 00:22:56 I did not get the gnomes. I'm so sorry. There was something at the last green room. I do this a lot. It was at the last green room when Eva's sister Julia was backstage and I was trying to win something for Eva and I did win that, which I was not expecting.

Starting point is 00:23:08 But I think I- Well, congratulations. Thank you so much. The guy said that to me too and I was like, well, it's just cause I spent the most money, but thank you. Next time I'm on an eBay kick, I'll fear for my life because apparently I'll only get haunted things or,

Starting point is 00:23:26 I don't know. I imagine I'll follow suit is what I'm saying. I know better. If I were to get you something, it would be like, either some memorabilia that would matter to you that's not haunted or just like a little something haunted where I'm like, just on top of the real gifts. And I know you wouldn't tell me what's haunted until I told you something happened and then you're like,

Starting point is 00:23:43 okay, I have a confession. Yeah, well, of course. It would be a secret haunting. You're sick. I'll tell you that. It's like a Trojan horse. I'll put the haunted item inside a different item and be like, how's that teddy bear treating you? Yeah, the way you would ask too often would tell me immediately that I should put it in

Starting point is 00:24:00 the dumpster. Hey, has it started smiling or frowning or talking? Just wondering. If you just went, has it begun smiling or frowning or talking? Just wondering. If you just went, has it begun? I'll be like, what do you mean? Oh, that is my indication that no, it has not yet begun. That's OK, moving on. And you're drinking your raw berry or whatever it's called?

Starting point is 00:24:17 Yeah, grawberry. I think that's what you tried to coin. Yeah, we've said it three times now. So I think we coined. That's what I think. Co, coin, TMTM. You know that feeling, Em, when you buy somebody something that you don't think that they would spend money on themselves, but you're like, oh, here's just like, I was thinking of you. Here's like a little tad bit of luxury.

Starting point is 00:24:38 A spritz of the fancy, as I say. Yes. No, it's very nice to be able to give people things that, you know, they might walk past by at a window and go, oh, that's lovely. I wish I would say. Yes. No, it's very nice to be able to give people things that they might walk past by at a window and go, oh, that's lovely. I wish I would get that. And then you get it for them. It's the magic that Quince brings to us all because Quince lets you have that moment and they let you have it for yourself too.

Starting point is 00:24:56 As an example, could be a nice sweater, a holiday sweater. Well, guess what? They've got their iconic Mongolian cashmere sweater starting at $50. They have beautiful jewelry 14k gold jewelry Italian leather handbags. Everything is just so aesthetic and beautiful and like core wardrobe style last holiday I actually did that exact thing where I ended up buying blaze this suede jacket from quince and it was Significantly more affordable than kind of the high brand name ones They show you a little graph

Starting point is 00:25:25 on the Quinn's website actually to compare. This jacket man, he wore it to our family photo shoot the other day and I was like, oh, it felt really cool to be able to gift him that and he's going to wear it every year. Quinn's only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. Go to quince.com slash drink for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash drink to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash drink. I'm having an LD obviously.

Starting point is 00:25:58 And also it's going to be when this comes out, it's already December. So how, I assume you haven't begun your Christmas presents debacle, you've only been e-baying things for yourself now. Yes. Well, I've been mostly doing that, but no, I've bought actually so many holiday gifts. I started out the week before Thanksgiving and then on Black Friday, I go a little bit hog wild. Yeah. I basically sit. It's my new tradition where for the last couple of years,

Starting point is 00:26:26 we go to Thanksgiving in Connecticut. I hand off my child like she's being escorted away for the summer. Yeah, it's great. And I give her to the grandparents and Blaise and his siblings are all just like playing Nintendo, watching sports, and like there's just huge amounts of snacks.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Like it's like a sleepover dream when you were a kid. And then I just sit in this one recliner with my laptop and I will eat half a wheat sometimes at night and then I will just like Black Friday buy my family's Christmas gifts all night while they watch football. It's really a, it's like a, it's a very cath it's like a,

Starting point is 00:27:05 it's a very cathartic and delightful, cozy experience. I know it's, it's not very anti-capitalist of me, but there are just a lot of things I've been needing to replace and gift. And you know, that's the time to do it. Well, I'm happy for you. I think I already bought, I bought some, I already finished for some people, but not most people.

Starting point is 00:27:28 I bought you something and it arrived and it was so big that I went, oh no, oh no, Em's never going to allow, oh no, Em's never going to allow. I thought it was a much smaller, more compact present and because of your new house, I thought, oh, it'll be small enough to just be, it's pretty darn big.

Starting point is 00:27:42 So I'm gonna give that to you. You can send it to the storage unit. Right, exactly. I was gonna say, I'll gift it to you in the car at the storage unit. We can just roll it out the window. I'm sure it'll be lovely once I've got the studio. But I'm hoping, I will say I'm hoping, speakeasy wise, spook easy wise,

Starting point is 00:28:00 that this is something you will want in there, even though it's kind of bigger than I thought. So there's not much room in there in the Spooky Z, I know. But I'm hoping maybe, and I don't want you to feel like you have to, but I'm curious if this will end up being something you'd like to add to your Spooky Z. I think you know me well enough.

Starting point is 00:28:16 I think it's a perfect find. I do too, but I wonder if the cons of the size outweigh the pros of it. But my feelings won't be hurt because Iigh the pros of it, you know. But my feelings won't be hurt because I really didn't think it was so big. I do think the Spooky Z is going to become a seasonal, like a rotating decor thing.

Starting point is 00:28:34 So sometimes yes, sometimes no, baby. They have them like underground, like preserved in the perfect temperature and stuff under UV glass. You get it. You get it, yeah. Because we have so many spooky things for the spook-easy and the spook-easy is the smallest room in the house

Starting point is 00:28:48 and it's a really small house. So it's way too small to be an actual like bedroom. So I think it's gonna become like a rotating. Okay, so maybe it'll be in the rotation, but I don't expect anything. I just wanted to warn you, but I am very excited for you to see it because it's really silly.

Starting point is 00:29:04 And oh, folks, maybe this month we can do our holiday. Do you want to do a holiday stream? Oh, like our live stream of gifts. Remember we talked about doing that potentially? Yeah, we can do that. And then maybe by January, we can do the poll and see what people preferred between, I know people seem to prefer Yappy Hour,

Starting point is 00:29:23 but maybe we can see if there's a way to continue the live streams. But yeah, I think doing a to prefer Yappy Hour, but maybe we can see if there's a way to like continue the live streams. But yeah, I think doing a holiday one would be fun if you're down, Em. Yeah, we can just figure out what day it is. And then we'll do it. We'll let Patreon know.

Starting point is 00:29:36 Anyway, okay. So sorry for all the talking, Em. I think you have a story to tell me. You think? I think, I thought. No, it is funny that we just spent literally like the last two weeks together and we still can't stop the app and-

Starting point is 00:29:50 Wow, it's unbelievable. Sometimes I go into therapy and I was there like four days ago and I'm like, oh, this happened and this happened. Did I tell you about this and this? And I bought a property and I got a full half a sleeve size tattoo and I decided to start sewing on a sewing machine,

Starting point is 00:30:06 and I bought one last night, and she's like, she makes me take the manic quiz all the time, and I'm like, so you can't fool me. I also wonder if I have that, but I also just attribute it to ADHD. I think that's what it is. Just impulsiveness. I think I'm just impulsive.

Starting point is 00:30:22 Hyperfixation, yeah. Exactly. I think they's what it is. Just impulsiveness. I think I'm just impulsive. And hyper fixation, yeah. Exactly. I think they blend very well. One of my best friends growing up is bipolar, and I think the two of us really just vibe so well together. Ah, interesting. Because her manic episodes and my obsessive hyper fixations at three in the morning, they really go hand in hand.

Starting point is 00:30:46 It was a lovely friendship from the start. So anyway. So you get what I'm saying, yeah. I get it. I mean, everybody probably already knows this. To this day, we go harder than anyone. I love it. Every time we see each other,

Starting point is 00:31:01 it gives us permission to like just be a little- Out of control. Out of control. Yeah. Anyway, just be a little naughty, you know, every now and then. A little, you know, Christine, and that's exactly what I've always said. So I'm very excited when I would I go home, maybe we'll be a little naughty. I don't know. Maybe we paint a room. Last time I was I was feeling a little naughty. My mom said, I really wish the basement was this color. And then in two days it was that color. I just couldn't stop myself. And I was like, you're gonna die in those fumes

Starting point is 00:31:32 and I'm gonna go, well, I died the way they loved, just doing a project that was not even a twinkle in their eye 24 hours ago. It's my favorite, especially when I go, we still haven't done Thanksgiving yet, but when I go to my aunts every year, I always force them to let me do a home project for them. The dream.

Starting point is 00:31:50 And so- As me, as me, as the host. The dream, come to my house. Oh, it's a dream for me too. I fucking love sitting up until 3 a.m. with a purpose. I love it. You and Lisa love to come in here and just do stuff. And everyone's like, doesn't that bother you?

Starting point is 00:32:01 No, come in and fix me and my house, please. I always feel like I'm being offensive. Like I'm like coming in saying, let me fix your problems. And then implying. After Lisa found some of the most awkward shit cleaning out blazes in my stuff. And I was like, and she pretended she didn't see it. It was super awkward, super awkward.

Starting point is 00:32:18 So awkward, so cringy. Honestly, after that, nothing fazes me. Come on in, fucking help me, help me. No, my favorite one was I made my aunt, I made my aunt make me clean her garage, which hadn't been, they're a Navy family. They had moved to like six or seven locations since they had like gone through all their shit.

Starting point is 00:32:38 And it was, their garage was just their storage unit. And I went through every single item. It was beautiful. We found such great relics. Anyway, I love a project, so I'm excited to have a reason to do it. Okay. Let me tell you a story. This is a quick one, so I don't feel bad that we talked so much today. This is, we just were in Charleston and where I'm,

Starting point is 00:33:01 where I was, I apparently looked a little tired and, well, I, ironically, ironically, where I apparently looked a little tired. And, you know, for the whole- Meanwhile, ironically, I slept till 5.35 p.m. one day. So I guess maybe you look tired in comparison to me. Maybe it was like, oh wow, Christine's so asleep. You de-aged, yeah. Hey, I have some good news. Hear ye, hear ye. Audible's best of 2024

Starting point is 00:33:28 picks are here, Em. Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals in all your favorite genres. From memoirs and sci-fi to mysteries and thrillers, from romance and well-being to fiction, Audible's carefully curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment. And we would know, right? That's right, because you can listen to our books on Audible. It's basically like a long podcast in book format. It's literally, we went from podcast to a book, which then became basically a podcast again. So yeah, full circle. So yeah, you can check out 2024's best of the year in audio entertainment.

Starting point is 00:34:02 I know I will be like an almost unbelievably starstudded production of George Orwell's 1984, which both honors and reinvigorates the terrifying classic. It's one of the best original dramatizations we've ever heard. Or romance that hits the spot like Emily Henry's funny story, heartfelt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson's lovely one. Listen to the year's best fiction like The Women by Kristen Hannah and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive James. Audible, there's more to imagine when you listen.

Starting point is 00:34:30 Go to audible.com slash drink and discover all the years best waiting for you. But while I was there, I spent a couple extra days there after everyone else. I saw Wicked twice, we're not even gonna get into it, but I like, I had, it was a big, it was, it was a big, I did a lot of things while I was there. And one of the things I did was I went on a few ghost tours.

Starting point is 00:34:52 There was one guy who was very into this location called the Sword Gates House. And I was like, all right, fine, I'll do it. So this is the Sword Gates House in Charleston. Twist my arm, why don't you? He talked about it as if he wish he had more time to talk about it. And so- Oh, that's a good sign.

Starting point is 00:35:12 That was a good sign, but also I said it's a short story. I couldn't really find much. So now I'm regretting not forcing him to talk about it longer, because then maybe I would have gotten more intel. Maybe he's like you and he wished he had more, he had more to talk about, there just isn't more to talk about. Maybe he's like, I wish wished he had more to talk about. There just isn't more to talk about.

Starting point is 00:35:25 Maybe he's like, I wish I had so many more stories. I have a lot of energy to talk and nothing to say. And nothing to say. Well, so for those of you who live in Charleston, you will know Rainbow Row, which is like the row of like very colorful houses. This is about a 10 minute walk from that. Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:44 And so where do we start? 1803, the first home was built here for a separate family. And from the beginning, this house has been U shaped, which is very fun. I love when it's got a curvature. Yeah. A rabble. It was a three story. Oh, Christine, don't, you know, I like when you speak in other languages. Okay. Sorry. I should have warned you. You shaped a three story house.

Starting point is 00:36:16 Later wings were added onto the home first, all sorts of rooms, ballrooms, et cetera. And eventually the Talvand family moved in. And the guy's name was either Andre or Andrew. We don't really know it's lost to time now, but a lot of stories just say Andrew. The last letter is lost to time. It just got, it just faded out.

Starting point is 00:36:36 It just kind of got sneezed away. Yeah, so sad. Well, it's because they were French to some degree. Anyway, so it might have been Andre or Andrew, but a lot of stories say Andrew. I don't know if it's just kind of been Americanized. And his wife, which is either, again, the sources were very confusing.

Starting point is 00:36:57 I wish I had this man right in front of me to double check things. At one point there was a Rose Talvand, and at one point there was an Anne Talvand. And it sounds like he was married to one of them. I don't know. I'm gonna go off of- I feel like this always happens

Starting point is 00:37:15 with these old timey paperwork. Like they're like related, but you're like, are they linked by blood, by marriage, by- Is it an aunt? Yeah. Right, yeah. I feel like it it always gets kind of convoluted, especially because everyone had so many similar names back then. Which again, maybe the stories are... I mean, yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:37:33 And I know that the Talvin family eventually was then inherited. So maybe it was like either Rose or Ann was married to Andrew, and then the other one inherited it over time. Oh. But eventually they just start saying she and her and pronouning all over the place and don't use an actual name, so I don't know who they were talking about.

Starting point is 00:37:51 I see. So the main storyline seems to be Andrew and Anne were married. That seems to be the common thread. I'm gonna go off majority rules at this point. For most of the history, this building has been a private residence, but today's story specifically is the 1820s to the 1840s.

Starting point is 00:38:15 Okay. So 1820s, the Talvans began to run a boarding school here for teenage daughters of the upper class. So imagine Gossip Girl, but you live there. Oh, Lord have mercy. The upper crust's finest Charleston Southern daughters. But think about what a good TV show that would make. Delicious.

Starting point is 00:38:37 Kind of like call the midwife, but like the preppy boarding school of the 1820. Oh, I would love that. They don't deserve any more privilege, but also I do want them filmed as a reality show. Well, I mean, most reality shows do end up being privileged people on TV for us to gawk at. So yeah, that is kind of the point.

Starting point is 00:38:58 I don't want to wish any more privilege and entitlement on these folks, but for entertainment. Oh yeah, I don't think it would be necessarily a privilege for them for this experience. I think we'd be all privileged to watch the nonsense unfold. I mean, imagine when Gertrude insults mods knitting needles. When one of them decides to show their ankles, are you fucking kidding me?

Starting point is 00:39:23 That season finale shit. I was gonna say, that can't happen till the way, way end. Yeah. Well, so M. Talvans Ladies School, M for I'm assuming the M. Oh my God, what if it was just M, E, M? That'd be beautiful. M's Ladies School. What's it called? That's what I would call my reality show, M's Ladies School.

Starting point is 00:39:41 Yeah, yeah you would. M. Talv's lady school. And it was considered one of the best finishing schools in the South. It's just discipline and social training because of course in the 1820s when you're a rich white girl, you're gonna just, all you're there for is to find an eligible bachelor and get married and have kids. But marry rich or else we don't love you. Obviously.

Starting point is 00:40:08 And also finishing schools, you did Cotillion, yeah? I don't wanna talk about it. Me either. Okay, so the school taught mainly arts like music and dance because that's what was the most becoming of women, I assume. But later the school also began to incorporate learning science and math in there, which a lot of girls at the time weren't learning,

Starting point is 00:40:27 but it was to give them, to make them even higher on the upper echelons of like, oh, well they're well read compared to the others. Worldly, yes, they're very worldly. They know two plus two. And the school also hosted social events for other young adults to come in so they could all mingle.

Starting point is 00:40:49 It was basically pretty much. And it was like a, basically bring in the eligible suitors to look at our finest girls and are any of them interested and could something come from this. So it was a big fancy 1820s, gossip girl fest, that's all I can really say. Did you watch Bridgerton? No, but I literally almost said the words Bridgerton.

Starting point is 00:41:13 Okay, it's sort of like when they all line up and show, display, like debut themselves. Yeah, like a debutante ball, yeah. See that from, I would have been like, oh, like Playboy, where they just line up the girls. And it's just a grosser version. I'm just giving so much privilege to all these reality stars.

Starting point is 00:41:33 Just saying, I was an eight year olds with an HBO subscription at one point and I've stumbled onto some weird shit, I'll tell you that. I don't think anybody is judging you for your taste in reality, I promise. No, no, no. It wasn't a reality show I stumbled upon. Oh. So Madame Talvand, I it's French, so I'm sure it's like something I can't pronounce.

Starting point is 00:41:59 Talvand. Maybe Talvand. Yeah. But I'm, I've been saying Madame, Madame Valdean. She was known to be a strict headmistress of this place, which I guess you have to be if your whole thing is like teaching discipline and yeah, if you're teaching people to be snooty, you probably have to be snooty yourself. For sure. Some said that she was so strict, she was actually tyrannical, which that's also just like how a teenager would talk. They're like, oh my God, she's literally a dictator. No, but like scary ladies like that,

Starting point is 00:42:33 think about Mrs. Trunchbull, like they're real. Like the nuns at Catholic school, like they will, and they would like, I mean, in the 1820s, like you know she was like beating them and stuff. Like there was not, like she was probably scary. Okay, I did not mean to victim blame there, you're right. No, no, I don't think you were at all. No, I don't think you were at all,

Starting point is 00:42:49 but I do know what you mean. I feel like nowadays we'd be like, oh my God, she's such a witch, all doing all this stuff. And it's like, well, at least she's not fucking smacking you with the word. I guess that's true. I just know how dramatic I was as a teenager

Starting point is 00:43:01 where I'd be like, oh my God, he's basically a prison warden. I would have said something fucked up. I mean, tyrannical is an intense word, but yes, I just a thought. But you could be onto something as well. Yeah. So who's to say? We're not there. But she was known to be very strict and rarely would the girls act out. So she must've been onto something or maybe you were you're onto something. And in 1828, this is a few years into the school, there was one 15 year old girl who was not interested in Madame Palavon's bullshit.

Starting point is 00:43:31 And her name was Maria Whaley. And before moving into the boarding house, she was homeschooled, but then she fell in love with a boy. And not just a boy, but a non-rich boy. And not only, probably not even a poor boy, just a non-upper class boy, but he was from New York. And so he was an outsider. He didn't understand their worlds.

Starting point is 00:43:57 No Southern gentlemen. No Southern gentlemen, no. He's a newsie as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, he has a leather jacket or something. In my mind, old New Yorkers and English boys are the same to me where it's like, oh, you missed it. I can't tell if that's old New York or English.

Starting point is 00:44:14 Cappy, Cappy, like, wait, who are you? So anyway, she found herself an oh, you missed it. And her father obviously was not down with this. And he tried everything to get him away from her. This is a weird line. Apparently he also, cause I was looking this up and I was like, I can't tell if he's talking about himself.

Starting point is 00:44:36 I'm just gonna read the sentence and then tell me what you think it means. Because I had to do some digging on this one. He desperately wanted to get George, the boy's name is George, the newsie. He wanted to get George away from his daughter and even went so far as to telling all of his friends to shun him and turn him away

Starting point is 00:44:57 if George needed a place to stay. What does that sound like to you? Like he's saying- Like who's friends? George's friends? George's not like two. Like he's saying, uh. Like who's friends? George's friends? George's friends, yeah. That's what I fucking thought too.

Starting point is 00:45:10 That makes sense. Like go tell his friends to not let him in the house. Oh, tell his own friends? Yeah, that's like. That's weird. Like why would they, I don't understand. Is it like they also have daughters and he's like, keep your daughters away from this boy.

Starting point is 00:45:27 He's out for one of our daughters. Oh, maybe. Or maybe like because it was a small town, maybe everyone knew everyone. And so he was just telling all the adults who had houses, like, don't let this guy in. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of weird. Was it to turn them... What is it? To turn him away or something? Just to keep him away from the area, the dad went to the dad's friends. Oh, maybe he just tried to chase him out of town

Starting point is 00:45:49 and was like, if you see this guy, you tell him to get lost. Tell him to scram. Maybe that's what it was supposed to be, but the line was like, don't let him in your house. And wouldn't his friends be like, I'm not gonna let a strange guy I don't know in the fucking house, don't worry.

Starting point is 00:46:01 Maybe they would, because maybe it's like, oh. Southern gentleman. Yeah, right? Well, one thing I was thinking is maybe because he was from New York, maybe it was common then to like just have anybody take on an outsider, like just to like give them a place to stay or like, I don't know, I have no idea what it was about, but he would go to his own friends and say, if you see this

Starting point is 00:46:23 guy, don't let him in your house. So that's the story there. You're right. It's a very weird way to say, like, tell him to scram. Like, yeah, I don't let him in your house. Maybe he was already staying there when they were wondering if they liked him. And then when he decided, yeah, maybe there's context. We're missing. Like maybe the guy was like, local friendly with the locals and was shopping by and maybe he was the milkman. He's like, don't let him on your property. Yeah, it had to be something like that because otherwise it makes no sense. But I guess all of the dad's friends listen and they're like, okay,

Starting point is 00:46:56 we're not going to let him in. But then it sounds like maybe that was happening because the next line is after this happened, George started a pitching a tent and camping outside of the house to prove his like devotion to Maria and that he desperately wanted to be with her. So maybe he was staying at other people's houses at some point if he's now camping out. Yeah, maybe he was just like bopping around like couch surfing. Yeah. So he was a chaise lounge surfing. Stop it. Oh, you know, I love a daybed

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Starting point is 00:48:28 Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com slash promos. Georgia Maria, they're in love. The dad's not into it. The dad told the whole town, don't let him in your house. We're trying to kick him out. George ends up camping out in their yard just to be like, okay, you told everyone I couldn't stay at their places, but I'm still here. I found a loophole. Pining over your girl, prining over your daughter. And so the dad was like, I can't get this

Starting point is 00:48:55 guy away from you. Like, what do we do about this? Meanwhile, I'm sure Maria is just oooing and awing and she's just like, oh my God, the perseverance and the persistence is just so hot. Yeah, she's just walking past her curtains like a little bit slowly. Oh yeah, just giving him a show. Giving him a show. And the dad is like, I cannot keep these two

Starting point is 00:49:17 to get away from each other, I don't know what to do. So because she was originally homeschooled and she was always at the house, so now this guy was always in his yard. He was like, I don't know what to do. I have to get her out of here if I can't get him out of here. And so then she got sent to Madame Talvon's lady school. Yes, okay.

Starting point is 00:49:36 And so while she was there, she was taking her classes. She also was at all those bachelor, bachelorette social functions, but she never gave up on her love for George, of course. So, eventually, I'm assuming George was like left in the dark about where she went. And he was like, where'd you go? I would think so. He probably also told all his friends, remember when I said don't let him in the house, also don't tell them, don't tell him where she went. Yeah. What's the name of that dumb French boarding school, please.

Starting point is 00:50:06 Well, apparently he was easy to read because very quickly George figured it out and was like, I bet he sent her away to that really fucking bougie school down the street. Yeah, right. Cause all the sources say he found her, which like now it's starting to sound like he absolutely is stalking her, right?

Starting point is 00:50:22 This is actually getting alarming. Like I guess, how old is he? Cause she's 16. Is yeah, I don't know his age, which is also a little muddy. Yeah. Um, because I like to think they're both like just 15 year olds in love, like lovebirds. Yeah. I can tell you when I was 15, I was, who was I in love with at 15? Her name was either Allie or Sydney was one of the two. No, it's shout out to Allie. Shout out to Sydney. Um, but I was in love with at 15. Her name was either Ali or Sydney. It was one of the two. Who wasn't I in love with at 15? No, shout out to Ali, shout out to Sydney. But I was in love with one of them at the time.

Starting point is 00:50:50 And if you told me I couldn't be near them, I would have camped out. I would have been like, are you kidding me? Like it would have been the gayest thing the world had ever seen. So to a point, I understand where George is coming from. Oh, of course those hormones are, yeah, bad, bad news. But yeah, now I don't know where the line is because I. Like just- Oh, of course, those hormones are, yeah, bad, bad news.

Starting point is 00:51:05 But yeah, now I don't know where the line is because I don't have enough context, but eventually he figures out where she is. He goes and finds her. She apparently seems to be into it. So I'm all for it currently. Yeah, I mean, she was waiting for him. And he finds her and sends her a letter and says, on March 3rd, get ready, sneak out and we're getting married. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And I know what's happening. So she sneaks out and I guess he'd

Starting point is 00:51:36 already arranged transportation, which like love that he thought about the logistics of that. What does that mean? Like he got a horse out front? He got a friend to bring a horse. Oh, I see. So kind of bare minimum, but at least the effort was there. No, it's something. He had a friend bring a horse in carriage, wait for her to sneak out and they brought her to the church.

Starting point is 00:51:58 They successfully eloped, but apparently they didn't think it all the way through. And like she should have just brought all of her shit that day and like just it all to the church. It's all at the school? It's all at the school, so she has to go back to the school. Oh girl, come on, you gotta think ahead a little bit. I know you're 16, there's no way I get to-

Starting point is 00:52:14 I would have never thought that far ahead. Your frontal lobe is just screwed right now. Literally at 15 I was going to house parties and the furthest ahead I was thinking was, I'm gonna sleep in the jeans I'm wearing and I have a Nokia so I don't need a phone going to sleep in the jeans I'm wearing and I have a Nokia so I don't need a phone charger. Sleeping in the jeans she's wearing. I'm hooked and I can't stop. Sorry. That's just

Starting point is 00:52:32 my entry to the thought. They wrote that about me. Isn't that weird? Yeah. That is weird that they misgendered you. It's super fucked up. Well they didn't know then. Oh right. You didn't know then. I didn't know then either. Yeah. So, so anyway, she did, maybe she was wearing the jeans. She slept in them. She didn't think twice, but anything else left everything else back at the house. And after they got married, I'm sure he was like, where's your shit?

Starting point is 00:52:53 And she was like, ah, it's at school. And so, and so he went, now you have to go back there. So she snuck back into the school. There's a one source had this whole like dramatic storyline of like she slipped in mud and one of the teachers found her slipped in mud. And then they were like, get back inside you crazy girl not knowing that she had just gotten married. So I don't know how true that is

Starting point is 00:53:14 or if that was just like flowery. But so she gets back inside the next morning, George comes to the school because now that he's married to her and thus she's his property, he can just sign her out. And so he knocked on the door. Of course, that strict tyrannical madam opens the door and he goes, I'm, imagine the cliffhanger. Like when the door opened.

Starting point is 00:53:46 Fade to black bitch. Absolutely. Oh man, this needs to be real. So when the girls start giggling behind Madam, she realizes, holy shit, maybe there is a Mrs. Morris here because originally she was like, there's no Mrs. Morris, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, these are single eligible bachelorettes. Yes, I'm the only married one here.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Shoo now, fetch puppy, go. Yes, scram. So. Don't go to anybody of my friend's houses cause they won't let you in. It was like the best insult they had at the time. It's pretty rude in the South, I imagine. So anyway, she was like, there's no Mrs. Morris

Starting point is 00:54:23 then all the girls behind her are giggling and she's like, what do these fucking children know that I don't? So she goes BRB, probably slams the door in his face and then goes all the girls outside now line up in a row. Like in Playboy, you see. I get it. Nope.

Starting point is 00:54:40 And so she has them all line out on the lawn. She brings George in and introduces him to the entire lineup of girls and says, he is here for his wife. Is there a Mrs. Morris present among us? Oh my God. Imagine being that girl and you're like, all the girls are about to scream.

Starting point is 00:55:00 You know someone, but they were all doing the Christine Klaw. They were like, oh my God. Yes, any minute now. They were like, oh my God. Yes, yes, any minute now. They were like, we're gonna talk about this later. She's gonna flip a gasket. She might even pee her panty hose. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:55:13 She might say a slur like being T-O'd. Oh no, she better not. Freaking T-O'd. No, she better not. She might say, Le Merde. What? What? She goes.

Starting point is 00:55:28 Is that even right? I think it's just a man. I was going to say like, Zut alors. Zut alors, yeah, that's good too. Oh la la. Yeah. So, Sacre bleu. Sacre bleu. So she, she says, is there Mrs. Morris here that would like to out herself immediately to the class?

Starting point is 00:55:46 And apparently Maria steps out. I don't know if she just said, I am, I'm Mrs. Morris, but one of the sources, which I love- I want the most flowery one, yeah. Okay, like I'm gonna send, in the sassiest, bitchiest way ever, apparently she curtsied. Oh!

Starting point is 00:56:05 Now I love that. That is a powerful woman, child. She said, and what? And what now? And what? Tis me, bitch. That's what she said. And you better call me Mrs.

Starting point is 00:56:16 Yeah. And so apparently as you say, I just see in a glass you go clink, clink, clink. I'm the bride. I'm the bride. Apparently Madame did flip a gasket and she screamed at the staff for like letting a silly little girl trick them all and sneak out,

Starting point is 00:56:32 which like, girl, you're part of that. Like, why are you yelling at them? You also got tricked. Yeah. Sometime during this, again, I don't, based on the source, either, George grabbed her hand when Madame wasn't looking and like grabbed Maria's hand and they just ran off together they ran off the lawn and ran off the property and were never seen again or

Starting point is 00:56:51 George legally owns her so probably was just like anyway you have your moment I'm gonna leave right like I've had enough excitement here for one day girls back to your dormitories, and you know she did it like that She went she went Now leave scatter scatter at haste at once yes with haste to your dormitories and you can have that seat. You know she did it like that. She went, she went, now leave. Scatter, scatter. At haste, at once. Yes, with haste, please, children. So apparently, madam was worried that this would ruin her and the school's reputation because literally all she does

Starting point is 00:57:17 all day is work with teenage girls. You know they're writing fucking long letters to mom and dad now going, guess what the gossip is. Oh, imagine. And then you know that the dad who specifically sent her here to avoid this specific young man. This is how he finds out. Oh, he's going to be so pissed.

Starting point is 00:57:36 I mean, truly the one group of people you don't want to catch you at your most embarrassing moment is a horde of teenage girls that you had lined up around you. Are you kidding me? Parents. Oh, and their parents who give you money. Yeah. Yeah. This is bad news. Troubling times at Madam Talvall's ladies school. Yeah. So, uh, somehow the word gets out. I can't imagine how and she is panicked that it's going to ruin her.

Starting point is 00:58:07 So she gets even more strict. She literally has, I guess she uses up all of the mommy and daddy's monies and she pays for a high, high, high, super tall wall built around the entire property and allegedly even topped all of the walls with shards of broken glass. So nobody could climb over it. Excuse me. And I let me guess, did she make like, who had to, the poor staff who's already getting screamed out for like not catching this girl escaping and now they're like having to glue glass to the top of this fucking wall. This is, this is nuts.

Starting point is 00:58:39 I imagine they were just breaking bottles up there and just letting the shards fall, which means now the perimeter of the wall also isn't safe. If you're, you got to always have your shoes on. Don't, don't get near the edge of the wall. If you're a Higbee school of ladies student, you know, people, sorry, you know better than to wear no shoes outside. Are you kidding me? To show your toes. Please let's not be real. So fun fact, uh,

Starting point is 00:59:03 the house is known as the sword gates house because of these wrought iron gates at the at the entryway and they have these. Sorry, we had a minor emergency that I was of had to escape for we're back poor Jack has to hear all of our the inner ins and outs of the behind the scenes while we record Eva's not here today. So I needed a minute. I went and got my little nice cube the thing that I oh by the way I didn't just buy myself one and after I bought both of us one to be clear didn't just order myself one Christine so I'll ask if you are listening backwards for some reason,

Starting point is 00:59:47 I'm obsessed with the Neato Nice Cube and 24 hours after finally finding one because they were sold out all over my area, 24 hours after owning one, I broke it by accident. And then the next time I saw Christine, she surprised me with a new one and it wasn't even the Nice Cube, it was the Nice Berg and it was twice as big,

Starting point is 01:00:03 so twice the fun. Yeah, and looked at it like, what the hell? I'd never even known that one existed. I didn't know this was any different, but yeah, I felt it in the store and was like, I must also own that. So, well, the reason I bring it up is that halfway through that last bit,

Starting point is 01:00:18 I realized I kept bringing it into the frame a little bit if you're watching on YouTube. So I wanted to make it clear that I'm, that's what's happening. I would like you momentarily, if you wanted to, to. You know I won't do that on camera cause you already did. Publicly, you already did.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Eat your words. Oh, just eat my words, that's fine. As long as I'm not eating anything else. I did immediately upon purchasing this and pulling up at a red light, which may have been the most indiscreet, non-discreet, I don't know the right word, place to do this, I bit my cube

Starting point is 01:01:00 because Em said, you know those Dr. Scholl's gels that Em likes to bite? Em said, this is exactly it.. Scholl's gels that Em likes to bite? Em said, this is exactly it. This is what will do it for you. And I said, well, immediately I got to try it. Really a delightful experience. Yeah. I'm telling you, 10 out of 10.

Starting point is 01:01:15 Really top notch. I will say this one now is covered. Leona likes to throw it because it lands really hard and makes a lot of noise. So it is not clean right now. So I will not be biting it. And Blaze is going to have a heart attack when he hears this but. It's, I can't, I have yet to find a better experience for what did I call last time the oral molar fixation?

Starting point is 01:01:39 Oh yeah, the oral moral fixation, which made me laugh because I was like, oh, now we're bringing morality into this. Great. Okay. Cause it is evil for sure. There's no good being done, but. But can confirm best part of my life. It's a very satisfying feeling.

Starting point is 01:01:57 Yeah. You know how when you're shopping for somebody and you're like, I want to get them something special that's like valuable and they'll appreciate, but it's just hard to nail it because you've spent maybe your whole life giving them gifts, like maybe say a parent. Well, I've got just the thing if you're in this predicament like I was because an Aura digital picture frame is the perfect gift. Name number one by Wirecutter, Aura frames make it incredibly easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame.

Starting point is 01:02:26 And when you give an Aura frame as a gift, you can personalize and preload it with a thoughtful message and photos using the Aura app, which I think is one of the coolest features of it. And it makes an ideal present for long distance loved ones. It's really special and they'll use it every day. And it's easy to set up. It takes about two minutes to set up a frame using the Aura app and you get free unlimited storage. You can add unlimited photos and videos and invite as many people as you want to

Starting point is 01:02:48 a frame. There are absolutely no hidden fees or subscriptions either. So very much a custom experience with Aura Frames. I've been collecting pictures of all of our travels while we're on the road. So our Aura Frame currently has that. I also got an Aura Frame for my friend Deirdre. And so she's got an Aura frame that she's been putting family pictures on, which is lovely.

Starting point is 01:03:08 I feel like all of my friends and family are eventually gonna have matching Aura frames. Yes, and then you can just like send them all photos of yourself. It's perfect. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carver Mat Frames by using promo code drink at checkout.

Starting point is 01:03:21 That's A-U-R-A frames.com promo code drink. Where were we? I don't know. I think, um, I think somebody was telling a story, but I can't remember who or why or what, what about, well, so she was worried that all the girls were going to gossip and then they did. And so she was like, well, now my reputation is ruined. So she built a wall, covered it with glass. Oh, and then, and we actually were at a good stopping point. So that, that worked out. So fun fact, the house is called the sword Gates house because there's this wrought iron gate upfront that has like a sword decoration on it or like looks like a sword and wrought iron. Um, and some think that this was also installed by Madame Talvon during this time while she was trying to like build

Starting point is 01:04:05 this huge wall. She's got like glass and swords at her disposal. I mean, I know she probably- Rot iron pre-Civil War swords. Right, like I'm assuming that this is probably like some weird ass construction company that is able to do things like this, but I'm just picturing this woman being like, now let's add glass shards.

Starting point is 01:04:21 I mean, she sounds like Mrs. Trunchbull. Like where is she getting all this shit? She actually does really sound tyrannical. Yeah, I eat my words. Wow. Wow. Wow Well, so something that she is responsible for this wrought iron gate put up because she was already putting up the wall But others say that this was installed a few years after the school closed which is around 1850 So still been had that name. Yes. Oh, I see. Okay. It's the, the gate, the story behind the gate, having like the swords on it. And now it's called sword gates house is definitely true, but how the, the gate was installed or why it was installed and by who is our got it. Okay. Okay. Um, so some say

Starting point is 01:04:59 it was her because I think it's just easy to shove that into the same story. But other people say that it was put in later by a new owner. And fun fact, these gates were originally intended for a police station, but they either decided not to use them at the police station or they had like a second set. Then they decided to use them on this house. They had an extra set of police gates with swords on them. I think it was like the blacksmith messed one up or something. I think there was something where they were like,

Starting point is 01:05:32 all right, what do we do? But that's the best story. We have this school, remember when you said, oh, he's a prison guard. It's like, no, you literally are in the gate. Glass top walls. You're actually now walled in, gated. Yeah, maybe she was a prison warden. The gates actually matched the police station, except he fucked up one of the swords and

Starting point is 01:05:49 it's a little bit wonky, so the police didn't want it. What a tale. This is really exciting. Well, the other fun fact is that this was around 1850, and so they were made with pre-Civil War iron, which is so rare to find because most of the iron around the area was melted into weapons for the war. Really? I didn't know that. It's quite a relic that there's pre-Civil War iron just sitting somewhere and nobody

Starting point is 01:06:15 thought to melt it down. I mean, that fucking metal, what do you call it? Blacksmith is lucky that Mrs. Hig Higby bottom wanted to buy it because Like the police station said no now. He fucked it up and has to make a whole new one out of this fancy pre-civil war iron Like man, he's lucky. She wanted that kind of knockoff I Know the gate the wonky gate. Yeah, that's what they should call it. The wonky gates. I think it's a it's wonky gate It's the scandal also

Starting point is 01:06:47 Well today as for because this was on a ghost tour So the main ghost here obviously is Madame Talvon They say that she still roams the building making sure that nobody else is acting out under her watch because she's still fucking Paranoid after like almost 200 years. Do you mind know what reminds me of that one place that we may or may not cover in a live show, who still is around and it's like fucking go away. Like what do you want? Like you're not the boss anymore, you know? It's just so weird how some of them need to like keep that.

Starting point is 01:07:20 It's like, are you just, are you that married to the property or like, like, could you leave if you wanted to, or do you care too fucking much? Yeah. Is it like, you're just too invested in like making other people miserable? Yeah. I don't know. It's like, this is all you had.

Starting point is 01:07:34 Yeah. You just want that yardstick to smack people's knuckles with, you know? It's like, hate to bring it to you, but that unfinished business is finished actually. Yeah, right. It's been finished a long time ago. So people see her apparition doing bed checks, like walking down the halls and going into each room. Apparently she walks through the halls,

Starting point is 01:07:53 vanishes moments later. People have seen doorknobs turning on their own. And then when the door opens, no one's there. Which means people are also seeing the doors opening and closing. I just had a thought, I'm so sorry. I just had a thought about the bed check thing. You know, sometimes when you're asleep

Starting point is 01:08:08 or like people tell stories of being asleep and then they wake up and there's like a woman or someone in the doorway. What if it's like a parent checking on their kid? Like I hope so, yeah. I would prefer that. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like people are always like,

Starting point is 01:08:21 oh, there's this ominous like just figure standing there, a woman standing over me while I slept. And it's like, what if they're just doing the bed check on their kid back then, to just check if they're asleep, you know what I mean? That's when you move the bed and see if they go to the same location. Oh, good point.

Starting point is 01:08:39 Is it a blueprint theory situation or are they following you wherever they want? Excellent point, excellent point. Yeah, anyway, just a thought, because cuz I'm like sometimes people talk about Victorian ladies appearing at their bedside I'm over at the foot of the bed. I'm like why maybe that's why maybe they're like just checking that makes sense But then then that feels lovely until you realize that someone like her who's doing the bed check and it's like yeah Yeah, yeah, just don't move into an old boarding school because probably it's not going to be as nice of a bed check ghost. No, instead move into an old boarding house, right Christine?

Starting point is 01:09:09 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh wait, good point. Let me rethink that. I'll get back to you. So people, again, see her apparition. They see swirling mists on the property. People hear things moving on their own. They hear heavy sighs, heavy footsteps.

Starting point is 01:09:26 And they have seen her standing on the balcony gazing out at the garden where she's probably watching to make sure no one's sneaking out at night. She's watching her glass shimmer behind the rose bushes, just the pointed glass above the fucking wall perimeter. Which imagine like being a kid just living there and hanging out in the yard at night, like in all of a sudden you just see someone staring at you and I feel like yeah she was probably always watching and wanted you to feel like she was always watching you know she's probably one of those I imagine as you get older the feeling kind of goes away but when you're younger like it's such

Starting point is 01:09:56 a dark presence because they feel like they just keep tabs on you yeah and you know that is what they're doing like they're only looking at you with critical eye. Imagine, imagine like being a ghost who is that prim and proper from that time period. And now there's like a teenage girl living there who like wears like shorts, literally shorts or like sneaks her boyfriend and then they're like hooking up and like you just are watching the the exact opposite of what you trained teenage girls to be like. That's what I'm saying is like you know she would get her little yardstick out and try to smack them, you know, with her. But then I'm like, girl, give it a rest. Like go be at peace. You're stressed out. Just you're,

Starting point is 01:10:35 you're just stressed out. You're causing the problem. You're causing the problem. Yeah. You're your own problem. Well, some people have seen a second ghost here who's a man walking through the dining room and they don't know if that's maybe her father or George. So still pissing her off. So she cause he got in her right. Oh, he's really taking a row. Yeah, especially cause he got like led in, you know?

Starting point is 01:11:01 Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. So in 17 nope, in 1970, it was added to the National Register of Historic Places from the fifties to the nineties. It was a bread and back bread. No my God, I can never do it. Bed and breakfast called the Swordgate Inn. And it was on one of the wings of the house. Best business ideas on this show, by the way. I love bread and breakfast. I don't know what breakfast is, but I love the bread part the house. We come up with the best business ideas on this show, by the way. I love bread and breakfast. I don't know what breakfast is, but I love the bread part. Yeah, we don't care about the second part.

Starting point is 01:11:29 Bread and bread, let's call it that. Bread is a good start. Bread and bread. Bread and breakfast. When I'm getting breakfast, I really do also just want types of bread. So bread and bread is totally fine. Oh, I can't eat breakfast without any bread.

Starting point is 01:11:40 That's not gonna happen. Did you hear that? It's not gonna happen, okay? And it's not because I wake up at 11, okay? No, it has nothing to do with it. So the building today is 17,000 square feet, over 17,000 square feet, nine bedrooms, 14 bathrooms, eight fireplaces, and quote,

Starting point is 01:11:58 a drawing room, a study, a ballroom, a library, two dining rooms, a commercial kitchen, a fitness room, a gift wrapping room, which is how you know you're rich, a wine cellar, quarters for house staff, and much more. Which yet I have to mention the gift wrapping room. On TikTok, I follow a lot of like home interior design. There's nothing I want more in my life

Starting point is 01:12:22 than a gift wrapping room. I would literally break every historical rule and attach like an addendum to the top of my house that's like wobbly and not up to code just to have a fucking gift wrap room like that. It's so extra, but like so satisfying when people have one. I follow those same people on TikTok and I watch the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:12:42 I'm obsessed. I'm also obviously obsessed. I don't know if there's a name for it yet, but that door from the garage inside. So you can just leave your groceries by the little door and pull it right into your walk-in pantry. Are you fucking kidding me? Game changer, game changer.

Starting point is 01:12:56 Quick, quick, quick, quick little Q. Are you fucking kidding me? Hey, quick little A, no, I'm not. It's hard to believe, but I'm absolutely not. Wow. There's nothing that gets me riled like a gift wrapping. Okay, I watch all the videos because I know that they're, I guess, somewhat controversial

Starting point is 01:13:15 and people always comment really nasty things, but I always watch them through when it's like, my new house, like my new build, things I was sure to include and it's like all the weird extras where you're like, okay, that's actually kind of genius. Give it to me now. What are you talking about? Yeah, like things that aren't an extra like huge monetary value, but it's like just smart.

Starting point is 01:13:35 Like you know, when they have like certain drawers that pull out vertically instead of for lids. Oh, mama mia. You know, just dump shit like that where you're like, wait a minute, that's fucking genius. I love, listen, a gift wrap room. Oh my God. Oh, do you know what is about to rock your absolute fucking dome?

Starting point is 01:13:51 You tell me, you tell me. There is this man, he is obviously someone's father. He is like just a man in his 40s. But he is absolutely a little too knowledgeable about historical antique furniture. His name is Joe Himmely. Oh, this is all I want in my life. Hold on. I'm his, you know what you're doing. He would be best friends with your stepfather. I am obsessed with Joe Himmely. I have written on his Tik Toks. I have said the world is not ready for my obsession with Joe Himmely. And then Joe Himmely replied. Thank you. It's here's the thing.

Starting point is 01:14:29 He apparently there is a Hoosier antique cabinet museum in something Indiana has a two-year and he runs it or is like the Q he is somehow the historian there in some way, or he just has a fucking membership and just films everything there. I don't know what his deal is, but he loves to talk about Hoosier antique cabinetry and the things that he finds or the things that Hoosier once did on these pieces of furniture is so smart. And I'm like, why don't any of these things exist anymore? Like, so the, on the legs, on the legs of the, like the kitchen counters, cause back then what they all had like legs,

Starting point is 01:15:09 they weren't installed into the floor. It was like, they all had like wooden legs. And each of the legs would have like little cups. You would put carousel, like gasoline or some sort of like a chemical in. So that way it would be ant traps. Like, so they couldn't climb up the legs and get all your food.

Starting point is 01:15:24 And like, and he pulls your food and like and he Pulls out all these drawers and he talks he loves the bread boxes that have perforated air holes and he loves those But listening to this man talk about who's your antique cabinetry? Okay, all I want to do is go to this museum Okay, I'm so excited about this because also I'm gonna trade you my one of my favorites, which is a Facebook group Where people post stuff in their house that they don't understand what it's for. Like in their own house. I'm already a part of it, girl.

Starting point is 01:15:51 Don't. Of course you are. I should have known. It's ridiculous of me to assume otherwise. The way that nobody knows what the old ice milk chest in their little, like the little shelf, their little ice box shelf. Hilarious.

Starting point is 01:16:03 I mean, amateur hour. Which one do you follow? Which one do you follow? Which one do you follow? Let me check. I was on there today and somebody posted a picture of these holes in the ground, like almost like peep holes to the basement. And apparently it's to let light in

Starting point is 01:16:17 back in the Victorian times, because there was no light for the servant class who had to work in the basement. And we might as well give them some air holes so they get some sunlight. I was like, man, it's just fascinating. I'm on a, I don't have the page in front of me, but I don't follow a Facebook group. I follow the Reddit version of that. Oh, I feel like I've turned my Facebook into Reddit, which I know is not ideal. I should have done the other way around, but too late.

Starting point is 01:16:44 It's a delight, but I need you to go find Joe Himmell. You will love him. Oh, I already got him. Don't worry. I already follow him on Instagram. Okay. I mean, obviously the moment you said it, I was like, well, I guess we're friends with him now. I will say my stepdad probably will not,

Starting point is 01:16:58 will want to talk more about. Trains. Yeah. Well, I think I would be more intrigued by what he had to say. My stepdad would probably just try to tell him like what kind of stain to buy for the wood. Like I think they have similar interests, but they're kind of ships in the night. Like they're just a little... I think they could bump into each other at a convention and make small talk. No doubt. Oh, no doubt. And it would be well past bedtime that we finally got home. Yes.

Starting point is 01:17:25 I don't, I don't know how we got here, but that was the end of the sword gate sales, by the way. The last fun fact I had is that it was once owned by president Lincoln's granddaughter, the end. Whoa. And if you wanted to see pictures of this place, if you want to see pictures of this place, business insider once took pictures because it was on the market. It was at one point like on the market for like $23 million and it was most recently sold, I think for 10 and it's a museum now. Wow. Um, but there's pictures on business insider if you want to see what it looks like

Starting point is 01:17:58 on the inside. I'm going to look that up. Um, scroll past my other groups, crow lovers. Scroll past my other groups, crow lovers. You're just scrolling past eight of those? I'm just waiting so many of them. Somebody's gonna tell me about their baby. Let's see, scroll past that faux show. Historic Victorian photographs. Death stairs, that's a whole group I'm in.

Starting point is 01:18:27 Where people post like stairs that look like they'll kill you because they're like so narrow or steep or whatever. Oh my gosh, death stairs. Yeah, death stairs, that's a good one. But A-I-R-S. Let's see, painting of the day. Okay, I thought it would show up right away because I was looking at it yesterday,

Starting point is 01:18:44 but I think They're mixing not so much on my feed today but they there are some really I feel like if you just join any of the Just talking to the listeners because M&R clearly on the same page, but in any of like the old house, they're like my old house or like pics of old houses or Things like that. You'll find some of those posts where people say like, what is this strange thing coming from the ceiling?

Starting point is 01:19:11 And they get have like the most crazy reasons where you're like, wow, they were geniuses back then. I mean, it's there's some, some moments where I just go, how in my mind, it's like so archaic, like, how are things so archaic and technologically advanced at the same time? Yes. Yes. It's like, sometimes I feel that way too about things like flossing, where I'm like, really, it's just string still?

Starting point is 01:19:34 We're just doing string. Like, I know there are like those expensive clunky water, whatever the fuck, that I do also own, but it's like, it's still just string, baby. I don't know, the floss industry is onto something or they're, I don't know. They know a good thing when they see it. They don't touch success. Oh gosh, okay, here's reconstructed mummies.

Starting point is 01:19:56 I'm in a lot of groups, I mean, so are you. Unfortunately, oh, Gravestones of New England, that's a good Facebook group also, sorry. Now I feel like I just, oh, maybe in the after hour, in the yappy hour, we do like a little like our favorite Facebook, like Reddit subreddits. Yeah, you wanna do that? Yes, I also, by the way,

Starting point is 01:20:14 just found out that Joe Himmley works in DC. So now I have to go on Facebook and see if we have mutual friends. If you do tell Tim, cause I'm sure they're gonna be Himalaya Spelled H I M a L I by the way folks if you're if you're googling I had to figure that out We do not have mutual friends I first but he I mean this is the happiest man you'll ever seen your life look at How oh and I'm on it already. I'm on this page. That is like that is the happiest man you'll ever see in your life. Look at him. Oh, and I'm on it already I'm on his page. That is like that is a happy man. Yeah, he looks like he likes to fish

Starting point is 01:20:48 He likes a day on water. He loves the Hoosier cabinet. I'll tell you that hang on. That's a good man Hey, you open that up and zoom out a little bit. Look at look at that left hand of his. What's he doing there? Is he holding wine? He's holding a little glass of wine. Guess what? It is a half drunk. So he is having a time of his life. I gotta tell you, Joe Himmley is chef's kiss.

Starting point is 01:21:15 It looks like he's just what's up, you know? I hope he, I hope everyone goes and follows him. And then he goes, what happened? What, how did- I'll be honest. I don't even know who the hell this guy is, but I'm just really invested now. I just love him.

Starting point is 01:21:29 He went to Boston University. Hey, no wonder. I have a new thing to comment on his TikTok, icebreaker. Hey. Icebreakers. Well, include me since I found it so that I don't have to come up with my own icebreaker. Okay. I'll make it awkward.

Starting point is 01:21:45 I want to be the third wheel. Include me. Say, oh yeah, this one too. She went there too. She likes what she sees. Yeah. Okay. So sorry.

Starting point is 01:21:55 Back to this. Just loving this guy's energy. Really, really good. So this is a story that I have for you today, and it is one I had never heard of. And that always intrigues me because I feel like lately I've been doing a lot of that. I've been wanting to do this since the day we started the podcast.

Starting point is 01:22:13 That is not one of these stories. So. Okay. This is the murder of Eric Poltorak in Los Angeles. Now a lot of these places in the story, we can probably imagine pretty well because it takes place in West Hollywood. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:22:27 Yeah. So that is somewhere we have experience. Eric Poulterac was born in LA in 1970 where he was raised alongside his older brother Barry. And from a young age, Eric was a very kind and creative child. He was very much a people person. And his older brother described him as the Polterak family's darling. And I hope it was said nicely from the sibling, not just

Starting point is 01:22:52 like really, you know, what's the word where you have, like bullying? No, like, oh, resentment, sorry. Not like full of resentment, like he's the darling child. You know, I hope it was said in love. We can only hope. So he made friends with everyone he met. He was a very curious person and he liked to, kind of like you, Em, actually, it reminds me a lot of you, because he liked to go kind of outside his own field

Starting point is 01:23:21 of knowledge and like look at other people's interests, which I feel like is a very you thing. A curious fellow. Yeah, but also just like open-minded to other people's interests, not just about what you care about, but just kind of like intrigued about what other people are interested in.

Starting point is 01:23:36 I know, talk, ask Joe Himmley. I know all about who's your cabinets now, because I gave him five minutes of my time. See, and you appreciate that, you know, and I feel like that's the kind of guy this was. It reminds me of you a lot. One of his best friends described him as M. Schultz. Oh wait, no.

Starting point is 01:23:51 Oh, was that Joe Himmley, his best friend? No, ouch. One of his best friends described him as a person who completely accepted everyone just as they are. It's just like, he had friends, it really is like you, I'm sorry, I have to keep saying that, but it's like, he had friends. Keep complimenting me.

Starting point is 01:24:11 No, he had friends that were like from so many different areas and backgrounds that like. Walks of life. Yeah, and they'd get in the same room and it was like, whoa, what a crowd, you know? Everyone's from a different era, yeah. Yeah, and he like gives everybody a kind of a pass in to like be his friend, which I think is really cool.

Starting point is 01:24:31 So anyway, he was an entrepreneur as well. And he had a creative edge and in early adulthood, he had had great success in insurance sales and a finance manager. So he was able to basically have the dream where he like made a ton of money young and then was able to pursue like whatever you want to side hobbies. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.

Starting point is 01:24:55 Right. Um, so he began as he got into like his late twenties, early thirties, he began to explore fashion and jewelry sales. And then he was like, why don't I just start making it myself? Okay. I know. So he started making accessories and he created a business called Roleplay Fashion.

Starting point is 01:25:12 Oh my. Which sold lingerie, shoes and costume jewelry. And I love their slogan. Roleplay Fashion's slogan was, who do you want to be tonight? Ah! I know, right? Isn't that saucy?

Starting point is 01:25:27 Very saucy, yes. According to the business's mission, quote, our goal is to increase self-esteem, romance and love in the world. Life is tough enough with work traffic, first of all, love traffic being second on the list for family. That's the most LA thing I ever heard. Life is tough enough with work, traffic, family, friends, and all the other little things that require our attention. So we believe that time away from all of that stuff should be held dear

Starting point is 01:25:57 and enhanced by role play, sexy lingerie, toys, and anything else that increases desire. We want you to feel good, look good, feel sexy, and have fun." Oh, okay. That's a nice mission statement. I think so. So he seemed to really live out this mission statement. He created a home for himself in West Hollywood among very, you know, eclectic people and people who were also very open-minded. His brand became pretty popular really fast, like it kind of took off even though it was just kind of a

Starting point is 01:26:28 side hustle. It was actually really popular among the rave BDSM and kink communities and he often sold clothes and jewelry at what has been described as an S&M club but like that was mostly in the media. So when they say like, it's a sex club, we don't know. It's a sinners, wicked, Satan devil worshipers. So you know, like the, the news was going to use words that were, uh, you know, maybe that can't necessarily be trusted to mean like the more nuanced version of what it is. So I don't, I don't quite know. We don't know, but it was described in the newspaper as an S&M club.

Starting point is 01:27:07 So he also made apparel and accessories for furries because as I was watching this on, I think Oxygen, I was watching some coverage on it and they kept showing photos of him with like a tail, with like the accessories, but they didn't mention, they mentioned only the like BDSM stuff. And I was like, I'm getting mixed messages here.

Starting point is 01:27:35 Like this guy's dressed as a fox in this photo. And then they're saying like, he's sold to like BDSM sex clubs. And he's going like this with like a peace clubs and he's going like this with like a P sign and he's wearing like a fox and I'm like I don't understand what connection I'm supposed to be making here. So he's just sex positive. I think he's sex positive. Exactly and I think people like to just interchangeably be like look at all this freaky shit you know let's all just you understand and so I was a little bit

Starting point is 01:28:03 unclear on why on earth They did it that way, but it's okay. I tell you a fun fact Well, not really a fun fact a personal anecdote about furries. Yes I was just talking to blaze about the time you and I covered the or you I guess you covered in the intro the program at Anthrocon. Oh Yeah, that was a good one. Blaze was just in Pittsburgh

Starting point is 01:28:26 and he said it was going on while he was there. Oh, fun. And he was like, oh my gosh, the city was like busted. You know, I don't identify with the furry community at all but I do identify with their program schedule. It was amazing. Oh man, I still think about some of it. It looked like a great schedule.

Starting point is 01:28:43 Audit some of those classes. I would have gone to anthrocon just to see What the hell that was all about and think about it. I could go to this guy Eric and be like, hey I'm going to my first anthrocon. What should I? Yeah, and you what can you help me with I? Wanted to go to the one called like I ate too much pasta something like that. Like that one was so good. That one was something Delicious. I think that one was so good. That one was top tier. I think that one was the most memorable for sure.

Starting point is 01:29:09 And then there was like the one for parents. And it's like, so your kid dragged you to Anthraka. So clever, so self-aware, I love it. No, one of my siblings is in the furry community and it was apparently quite a dinner table conversation where my mom was texting me and asking what her fursona is. Oh yes, yes, yes. And my sibling made all of the family get together and take a furry quiz together.

Starting point is 01:29:43 I think we did this in a yappy hour. I think you had to take the quiz. I think we did. Oh my gosh. Anyway, anytime I hear furries, I just think of my mom being like, I can't decide what animal I am. Oh my gosh. When we talked about that, I want to go back and find that video. It's somewhere on Patreon, but there's a video of us and you reading your mom's like little bio and saying what she got and then saying like what she wanted to get. Man, it was really funny. And then I took the quiz too.

Starting point is 01:30:10 I got something like an iguana. I don't remember. Yeah, I got something weird. It was strange, but yeah, so that's on Patreon. Anyway, I hear furries. I think of my mom, you know, you know how it goes. All right, Eva, write that down for M's next therapy appointment. Okay. So, la la la.

Starting point is 01:30:26 He didn't seem to make full, like, fursuits, but he did make apparel and accessories for furries. And he really, really thrived in these subcultures. It was his business, his passion. It's where he found friendship and it's where he found love. Oh. He did a lot of business out of his home in Beverly Grove. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar?

Starting point is 01:30:48 When they were describing it, they were like, oh, an upscale shopping center surrounded by the bustles of Hollywood and glitz and glamor. I'm like, OK, the Grove is, I mean, it's nice, but I don't know, like calm down. It's like Tinseltown. It's like, all right. Yeah, it's like, but I don't know, like calm down. It's like Tinseltown. It's like, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:07 It's like, I don't know. I stubbed my toe there one time. It wasn't that great. Okay. So let's see. He had a home in Beverly Grove and remember he had made good money, right? Like in his early career.

Starting point is 01:31:18 So he had been able to purchase a house there, which you know, the housing prices in like Beverly Grove are high. So good for him. So good for him. Okay. So he did a lot of business out of that particular home in Beverly Grove. And this was a home that he also shared with his daughter.

Starting point is 01:31:39 Now he had an ex-wife named Nikki, and the two of them had had a daughter before they split up and he and his daughter were really, really close. His friends and his brother Barry said that Eric loved being a father. He was dependable. He was doting. He loved to spend time with his daughter and they had a lot of shared interests, which is kind of cute because, you know, he had such eclectic interests. I like the idea that she, as even a small kid had, like he was encouraging of that, you know Well, I'm also I feel like it's probably I don't I don't know what stereotypes of furries are But I would imagine one of the good ones is that like you're open to other people having like some wonky interests

Starting point is 01:32:17 You like or like off the beaten path interests, you know, yes. Yes exactly like not mainstream necessarily Yeah, so I would argue that having a furry as a parent is probably really good for your mental health because they're gonna be supportive of a lot. Oh, absolutely. No, I totally agree. And it sounds like that's exactly why they were so close, which is really cool. His house there, especially being so central in LA, became a social hub where people would gather to dress up and have fun and people could basically go into his home and just be whoever they wanted which is pretty great. It was difficult to imagine all of this kind of sanctity his his beautiful setup his beautiful social circle his beautiful home being violated but unfortunately in the fall of 2011, Eric had a life-changing event when he experienced a violent home invasion.

Starting point is 01:33:10 Oh, fuck. Which I know is like your biggest fear. Totally. Yeah. So two men knocked on his door and claimed they were there to serve Eric legal paperwork, possibly to do with some unknown lawsuit. Eric's neighborhood was friendly and social

Starting point is 01:33:25 and he knew most of his neighbors and he felt pretty safe there, so he let them in. Once inside, turns out the paperwork of course was phony and one of them pulled a gun and demanded money. Eric said he didn't have any, so the man struck Eric over the head, basically pistol-whipped him, and then the duo tied him up with an extension cord and ransacked his house.

Starting point is 01:33:48 So they left with electronics and cash and Eric eventually managed to free himself from the cord to call 911. The assailants left behind these supposed legal documents covered in their fingerprints. Dummies. documents covered in their fingerprints. Dumbies. Ultimately, the police matched the prints to one man who was on probation for a prior felony conviction. And so they like immediately arrested him and charged him for the robbery and assault. But Eric was still reeling, even though this guy's in prison. I mean, the trauma is very, I can't imagine. No, me neither. And also constantly wondering like, do they have friends? Are the friends gonna come here now?

Starting point is 01:34:26 Like to get revenge or yeah. Yeah, it just feels like an acute fear that like you didn't have before. And now it's just like all you think about. Like I wouldn't like over, overcoming everything else. So he could not get himself to settle back into that sense of security. He installed a security system.

Starting point is 01:34:44 I mean, that would also be my first move, with large visible cameras mounted around the house to discourage people from attacking again. Barry, his older brother, said in an interview that he believed the men targeted Eric because of his business, which they believed sold real jewelry, not costume jewelry.

Starting point is 01:35:05 So they think like, oh, not costume jewelry. So they think like, oh, they saw that he sells jewelry and they thought that he had like gemstones in his house and lots of cash. Which is like, what a stretch to think that like, oh, this, even if he, even if they did sell the finest diamonds, why would there just be rubies sitting around in your house? I'm sure they at least thought like, Oh, there's a safe with like something money or yeah, yeah. Jewelry. I don't know. I don't know. But

Starting point is 01:35:33 yeah, I agree. It's kind of a, it's sorry. I was gonna say it's like the last episode we did where we were like, when, when he found out that he killed that girl for like only like $12,000 or something. It's like how many diamonds are worth a home invasion? Like why, like maybe something in the safe. That's why you would break into someone's whole house and put them at gunpoint. Without even doing enough research to realize

Starting point is 01:35:58 like it's not even jewelry. It's just like costume accessories for furries. Like it's a harmless, like not high yield, you know, situation, not, not at least not diamond jewelry level. So months passed and Eric sort of slowly started to get more comfortable being back in the world, in his business, his social spheres and a year passed. And he went out with his friends to celebrate

Starting point is 01:36:25 the biggest holiday of the year in the role play and costume scene, Arbor Day. No, I'm kidding, Halloween. And of course, as you probably know, Halloween in West Hollywood is like Halloween on steroids. It's out want to go, but you don't. The traffic is one year I decided to try to go to WeHo for Halloween and to get

Starting point is 01:36:52 in. I mean, forget parking like, but we took an Uber and we were sitting in traffic for like 90 minutes. Well, when Alexander and I did our L.A. show, I read reviews of I read reviews of that event and all people complained about was the parking and the Uber. But I did go once. Alexis and I went. We were dressed as Buzz Lightyear and Woody. And we had a great time, but we basically did it and said, cool, check that off the list. Never again. It's just really wild. Like really well strangers and people are handing out drugs. I mean, it's just, it is. I don't know if we like stated this too, but in case you don't live in LA, we hoe is like

Starting point is 01:37:35 known as the, the gayborhood. So that's another reason why Halloween is so big there. It's just the land of queers. And so people So people like go all out, all out. Yeah, yeah. And all the bars have like, you know, are open and everybody's kind of just milling about. They close the streets. It's a chaos is what it is. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:37:56 So anyway, this is where he lived. And so he was, or he was living in Beverly Grove but he decided to go out for Halloween. This was about a year later with his friends in West Hollywood. And of course it was going to be a wild time. And they had apparently a really great time. He dressed as a twenties mobster. If you were curious about that.

Starting point is 01:38:19 Oy, mister. Yeah, same thing. Sound just like Al Capone, I think. So, you know, when they say like, oh, we found this, this mummified person and we're going to like use their 3D print their vocal cords to see what they sounded like, I feel like that's what they're going to do for Al Capone. He sounds like a little like, why ought a scrappy dude situation? Just sounds like you should be in Sweeney Todd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:51 It's like when they talk about like celebrities that like hid how short they were for, for 10 days, you know, it's like, it's a secret. Even though he's this tough guy, he sounds like a little pipsqueak. Anyway, okay. I'm so sorry. So they're out on the town. He's dressed as Al Capone, I tell you. And they're out, I'm assuming, taking shots and getting sweaty and making out with people.

Starting point is 01:39:18 I don't know. It's probably a wild time. Have a good time. Yeah, apparently he had a really, really good time. And then it was such a good time that he actually invited people back to his house afterward to like continue the party. So around 2am, they're finally like starting to wind down and he walks everybody out to their cars and decides to head back in for the night. There was nothing really remarkable

Starting point is 01:39:42 about that evening. It was just a very fun and enjoyable night. But the next day, something seemed off to his friend and business partner, who had called him several times that morning with no response. So she finally drove to his house, walked up to the front door and found Eric, in her words, cold and dead and covered in blood. Oh my God. So she made a frantic 911 call, responding officers found Eric exactly as she had said,

Starting point is 01:40:09 and at this point he was only 42 years old. That's wild. And I also, what I was going to say earlier when you said, oh, he invited a bunch of people back, my first thought was, oh, he'll really feel safe that night because- I think that's why, yes. At least in like the power of numbers, you know?

Starting point is 01:40:25 Yes, I had that exact same thought where like, you have people around and you feel so much more secure. Yeah, so it was very traumatic. It was immediately obvious to investigators that he had been shot in the back of the head at close range by a high powered weapon. And the attack would not have ever been survivable. So it was just quick and fast at least.

Starting point is 01:40:53 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Further analysis of Eric and the scene revealed a second slight graze wound on his face and at least two shots had been fired, but only one was actually fatal. So the killer collected the bullet casings, but they didn't take anything from Eric or his home. So this seemed personal and premeditated, in other words.

Starting point is 01:41:12 Eric was dead for at least 10 hours before he was discovered, which makes you so sad to think about like walking your dog past that night and like not having any clue that moments ago somebody was killed there, you know. Someone in our neighborhood, um, there was, we passed by this building all the time. It's just like a nail salon or something and a body was just found up there that was there for like three days apparently. And it's so weird. The like we were maybe driving past. You just hate to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. That's sad. That's sad.

Starting point is 01:41:43 And I'm sure it happens all the time, all the time. So yeah, You just hate to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. That's sad. That's sad. And I'm sure it happens all the time, all the time. So yeah, he had been shot about 10 hours before, before his business partner had been able to find him and call police. But because the neighbors couldn't see front porch from the sidewalk, they weren't able to see his body, even though it was basically right there in front of them, which was also very chilling. So Eric's brother happened to be a deputy sheriff who had just wrapped up training with the Homicide Bureau and had to fucking immediately respond to the scene.

Starting point is 01:42:17 Oh my God. So they weren't even like, oh, this is too personal. You have to stay off this case. I think he probably wanted to go. It said that he responded to the scene right away. So I don't know if that was, he had just passed training and he heard what happened, I assume in that. And just ran over.

Starting point is 01:42:33 I assume he would like wanted to be part of it. So he did respond to the scene. Um, and at first he like really couldn't even grasp it. Um, but when he walked inside the house, and he just said that it felt empty, quiet. Like, you know how this was such a vibrant social and space and like open. He just said there was like this silence and emptiness to the house and it just suddenly hit him all at once that his brother was dead. And at this point, he couldn't imagine who would want to kill his brother, and neither could anyone else who knew Eric. Everyone who told the police, or sorry,

Starting point is 01:43:13 everyone who interviewed with police had only good things to say about him. So the case detectives dug deep into Eric's life for any possible motive among anyone he knew. There were headlines, of course, like I mentioned earlier, about his death that sensationalized his illness, and they referred to him as a sex clothes exec. Which, like, isn't even very catchy or clever.

Starting point is 01:43:37 It's not even a good bad name. No, exactly, it's not even like, oh, I had to do it, because it was so clever. It's like not even that. And you know, like, oh, I had to do it because it was so clever. It's like not even that. And you know, like the friends that were with them that were with them that night, they're all talking to each other being like, well, let's think about every single person in the group.

Starting point is 01:43:53 I'd almost be scared to reach out to the people in the group. So I'm like, what if that's the one that did it? You know? That's like a whole nother social anxiety on top of everything else. Like, oh God, like, was it one of us? Yeah. Ooh, that's chilling. And it doesn't feel totally premeditated to me if like they just left the body there.

Starting point is 01:44:11 Like, wouldn't you think like about disposing of the body or maybe it not being so damn close to the yard, you know, like, I mean, I think oftentimes if somebody just wants someone dead, they just get rid of the evidence of what they did and like, I don't know. I mean, it does feel premeditated that they got rid of the casings, I guess, but it's wild that they, I feel like the, it went, it got out of hand in some way. Cause you would think they'd want to try to hurt him in a quieter spot or in a less obvious spot.

Starting point is 01:44:42 I don't know. It seemed like very intentional for it. You basically shoot and jump in the car, you know? Like getaway car. But yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I've definitely seen that before though, where people who are shot and killed intentionally are like shot and killed right outside their home.

Starting point is 01:45:01 I don't know. Gotcha. Like a drive-by? More like a drive-by, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Gotcha. Like a drive by? More like a drive by, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So he has no clue who this could be. And of course, all when the media gets hold of it,

Starting point is 01:45:15 it becomes the sex clothes exec. Again, it's still not good. There was speculation that Eric's business and nightlife played a role in his death because it was like different and weird quote unquote, you know, but that just seemed to be rooted in the misconception of sex clubs as inherently unsafe or even as the misconception of being a furry as like some depraved thing. You know, I think there were just a lot of stereotypes

Starting point is 01:45:45 being bandied about. Sure. But in reality, Eric seemed to have nothing but friends and loyal customers and like happy relationships in that scene. What was almost completely overlooked in the media coverage of his death though was Eric's very public involvement with this guy named, oh my gosh, Zechariah Sitchin. That's another easy Facebook search. You don't have to wonder if you found the right guy. Well, maybe don't go looking for this one quite yet. I don't know. Basically this guy-

Starting point is 01:46:21 I'm just saying, if you heard about him at a bar, your friend would find him very easily. This isn't- Immediately. You wouldn't have to hire Christine. And my mutual friend would be Em Schultz, probably. We have one mutual. So this guy was an alien theorist, so to speak. He wrote that the human species was once a genetic science project created. It has very Scientology vibes. It was a genetic science project created by an ancient race of extraterrestrials from a planet

Starting point is 01:46:52 called Nibiru. So this feels like the Travel Channel or whatever the fuck. What ancient aliens? It's basically ancient aliens is what this guy subscribes to. And yeah, basically he says that these extraterrestrials are said to have genetically engineered humans to serve them as slaves, but we were eventually abandoned and consequently freed. And basically this Sitchin guy and his books are often referenced in fringe doomsday conspiracies. And actually, M, you mentioned him in episode, apparently episode 339 when we covered the 2012 prophecy. I did?

Starting point is 01:47:37 Yeah, apparently you mentioned him. Probably just like a side note maybe. I don't know, I don't know. But he's basically one of those guys who claimed like he knew the world was ending, yada yada. That's so weird. Like, isn't that, what? You tell me now, what?

Starting point is 01:47:52 No, no, no, no, no, go ahead. I was gonna say, isn't it wild that like, I wonder how many of our stories do have an overlap of like, oh, there's a mutual friend, but that like somehow connects to both our stories. It's usually Houdini or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Those two seem to have their fucking hands and everything. I know, but like, what are the odds?

Starting point is 01:48:12 I'm like, oh yeah, and here's this doomsday stuff where I talk about this random guy. Oh, by the way, he was a prime suspect in a murder. Like- No, no, no, no. He is not a prime suspect in a murder, to be clear. Very clear here. I heard he had a connection to the murder victim and I was like, okay, here we go.

Starting point is 01:48:27 No, no, no, so sorry. He had this involvement with this guy, Zechariah Sitchin, and he knew him personally. They were actually friends because he worked as his website manager. He was like the webmaster basically for Sitchin's whole website. And according to friends, Eric and his ex-wife actually divorced because of these irreconcilable

Starting point is 01:48:51 spiritual beliefs. Like, she just couldn't get on board with the kind of fringe thinking and it broke them apart. So during their marriage, Nikki... I forgot about this part. I just am eating, talking about eating my words for four seconds after I said them. I completely forgot that she became a Scientologist during the marriage. So when I said, oh, she just deal with the fringe beliefs.

Starting point is 01:49:18 And then I was like, anyway, she joined Scientology. Sorry, that sounded very silly. Basically they had irreconcilable spiritual beliefs in which Nikki was a Scientologist and Eric was like, that's ridiculous, I can't support that. Also, we're descended from a science project. Alien astronauts. They do feel like they could be cousins spiritually. It feels like, right, like that thing where they're too close, like it's just gonna

Starting point is 01:49:45 butt heads, you know? Kind of like John Helene, what was his name? Joe Himmle. Joe Himmle. And my stepdad, you know, it's like, oh, you could really get along and you did for a while, but it's just irreconcilable differences, you know? Anyway, so instead of Scientology, Eric was a devout student of Zechariah's edition's teachings, going so far as to travel the world to sites with extreme cultural significance, apparently to research their supposed links to ancient extraterrestrial powers. Now I laugh at this a little bit and I kind of find it problematic, and I think we've probably talked about this, or at least you may have heard about it folks, but like the idea that on some of these shows that, you know, ancient

Starting point is 01:50:31 peoples who aren't white people most of the time, the theory is that they couldn't create a pyramid so aliens must have done it, you know what I mean? There's like this kind of icky undercurrent of that art. So I don't ascribe to it, but that was a huge part of this quote unquote like teaching is that aliens, extraterrestrials built the great pyramids, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Basically all the episodes of ancient aliens, I assume. I haven't seen it in a while, but that's kind of the vibe. So paleontologist Julien Benoit addressed people following Zechariah's writing like Eric,

Starting point is 01:51:15 some of whom have actually damaged culturally significant sites such as pyramids in Egypt, trying to prove that aliens did it like yikes. And so this guy- And how would you prove that by the way like yikes. And so this guy. And how would you prove that by the way? Right, right. Great point. What sample of a pyramid are you going to bring to what doctor? To what lab?

Starting point is 01:51:33 Just gonna do what science to it to figure out that it actually is, like, are you hoping that the result would be inconclusive because we don't have the technology? I'm not kidding. They were looking, one episode said that they were looking for some element, some space element that you wouldn't find and they believed that it would be present in the stones or something, meaning they would be from- And that proves aliens? Right, exactly. I mean- There could be a million reasons for that. Okay, well, whatever.

Starting point is 01:52:05 Yeah. So the paleontologist who called them out wrote, Well, you may ask, so what? Who cares if relatively few people don't believe the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids? What's the harm? Actually, there is great harm. Firstly, these people try to prove their theories by traveling the world and desecrating ancient artifacts. Secondly, they perpetuate and give air to the racist notion that only Europeans, white people ever were and ever will be capable of such architectural feats." End quote.

Starting point is 01:52:36 Yeah. Snaps for Julian. Truly. I mean, I also used to fall victim to the, oh, it must be aliens before I ever like. I mean, you and I were so impressed by, what was it? A door to bring your luggage inside or something. We're impressed by, we're easily bamboozled.

Starting point is 01:52:54 Let's put it that way. Yeah, so like we're impressed that people even thought to put holes in the floor to bring light into the basement, okay? So like, I can see why we'd fall victim to something like this, but yeah, it is important to realize that it has pretty racist. I said undercurrents earlier. It's probably more like overcurrent. Yeah Anyway, so it's not known exactly how Eric like what his extent of interactions were with all these cultural sites

Starting point is 01:53:18 But he did play a very public role in encouraging these beliefs on others even appearing on ancient aliens. Oh, holy shit. Is that how you found this guy? Or you? No, this was something I'd never heard of before. I just, yeah. And I mean, as I was like listening to them go on about, I was like, this sounds like he should be on ancient aliens. And they're like, until his guest appearance on ancient aliens, which by the way- Well, there we go.

Starting point is 01:53:43 There we go. And they also made his fucking byline, or what's it called, your lower third, it said Sumerian researcher. And it's like- Oh my God. Okay, he's, first of all, takes several seats because he is a sex close exec. And that's what you should put on the lower third.

Starting point is 01:54:04 It's like, it should be the picture of him in his furry suit. Yes, yes. Like, oh, the balloons are coming up. The balloons. Picture of him in his furry suit and then like... Sex clothes expert and then also a Sumerian researcher. I just can't. And financial, retired financial advisor anyway. Didn't they cover the Sumerians? Maybe that's I just can't and financial retired financial advisor. Anyway. Didn't they cover the Samarians? Maybe that's what the episode was.

Starting point is 01:54:29 Oh. Like Mount Shasta or something. You did cover the Samarians at one point. Yeah. Maybe I took quotes from him. I don't know. Honestly, he could have been in multiple of your episodes. I wouldn't be surprised.

Starting point is 01:54:41 Okay. So yeah, maybe as they're going through this or like, I mean, this is a pretty wild lead that I assume police don't see all the time. So they're like, did he meet someone during his travels who wanted to hurt him? Did someone who had even more extreme beliefs like become like violent toward him for his research or they, you know, they thought he was doing something wrong. So detectives investigated several avenues in that regard as well. I mean, he had very varied interests, very varied interests, which again reminds me of you seriously

Starting point is 01:55:12 every time. Maybe he just had ADHD. I mean, obviously he did, but that goes on said, you know, that still, still I have ADHD. I'm not nearly as like, I don't know. Okay, I know what you mean. Culturally interested in niche subjects as you are. I don't know. I think my special interest is special interests.

Starting point is 01:55:40 Thank you. That's the best way to put it. That's the best way to put it. So detectives investigated several avenues searching for Eric's killer whose identity remained a mystery despite the entire attack happening on Camera remember when he got that security system. Oh, yeah So one of his security cameras was pointed directly where Eric was murdered and it shows Oh, this is so chilling. It shows him walking his friends to their cars and then he walks back to his front door.

Starting point is 01:56:10 And as he's about to enter, the killer steps out from behind the bushes aiming a large gun at Eric and firing twice. But the issue is they were wearing a Halloween costume. Of course. Did this just happen? Did you just do a Halloween costume. Of course. Some sort of- Didn't this just happen? I know, I did.

Starting point is 01:56:27 Didn't you just do a Halloween shooting? I did, I did. At someone's doorstep? I did. I think maybe that's where the algorithm took me. They were like, ah, I see. The trick or treat killer or something. Yeah, it was a murder on Halloween as well, yeah.

Starting point is 01:56:42 Yeah. What was the costume that this guy was wearing? Uh, it was basically just a robe and like a mask. It was like the very basic, um, which I think some, one of the people on this show said something like, which is basically what you get if you haven't planned any sort of Halloween, like she said in kind of a very catty way of like, which is the lamest thing you could be on Halloween, you know, like, you weren't even creative

Starting point is 01:57:06 with your stupid Halloween outfit. Yeah, with no creativity whatsoever. But I also get that that's like, you would pick the vaguest one. The vaguest one. And it's a black hood with like just a covered face mask. So it's basically like a cloak situation. So you can't tell who it is.

Starting point is 01:57:19 And so, you know, they got up close, they're even holding a weapon, which could be concealed or pretend to be fake, you know, they got up close, they're even holding a weapon which could be concealed or pretend to be fake, you know? And so they basically are easy to blend in and nobody even thought twice. So neighbors later reported hearing what may have been gunshots, but there's so much partying going on that they were like, well, maybe it was firecrackers or a car backfiring. And so police only knew that the murderer was tall, I could see the outline with a broad frame and the attack

Starting point is 01:57:49 was swift and pointed like an execution. So they were basically like somebody has probably ordered this hit. I was just saying, it definitely wasn't one of his friends that he like everyone left at the same time. Yeah, they all left at the same time. This person had, so they showed the group arriving and then all of them leaving. And it was as he walked back alone that somebody jumped out. So with no other leads, detectives looked at

Starting point is 01:58:16 the guy they had in prison, Michael Thomas, one of the two men who had attacked and robbed Eric in 2011, a year earlier, and the only one who was caught. But of course he was in police custody when Eric was killed. He had been charged in August 2012, which was roughly a year after the home invasion, so in October of 2012 he was still in prison. Eric was set to testify against Michael in a pretrial hearing on December 2nd, and he had recently spoken to his brother, Barry, about testifying and how nervous he was to go to court and testify against this man who had attacked him. So he wondered to his brother if he was maybe eligible for witness

Starting point is 01:58:58 protection. Michael's partner in the crime was still free, and of course he knew where Eric lived because he had gone there to rob him. So Eric was like, shit, like you said earlier that you'd be constantly like, is the friend gonna come back? Like, they know where I live. And so it turns out those fears were completely warranted. He asked aloud to his brother,

Starting point is 01:59:22 I wonder if I'm eligible for witness protection, but that never really happened. In the end, Eric was killed before he even had the chance to, you know, decide whether or not to testify. Although Michael was in custody awaiting trial, investigators basically assumed he may have had something to do with this man's death because, hmm, I wonder why. Eric was about to testify against him in court. So they listened to hundreds of phone calls that Michael made from inside prison, mostly to his girlfriend, who was 49-year-old Yvonne Keith, and his 20-year-old

Starting point is 01:59:58 niece who lived with him named Jessica Thomas, and Jessica's boyfriend, 20-year-old Allen Williams. So there were a lot of phone calls they listened to and transcribed all of them. In one phone call, Michael said to Alan, you ready to put in some work? Well, since I'm not out there, then someone else has got to fight this case for me on the streets. Ooh. Basically, he was asking them to get him out of jail by getting rid of the eyewitness. He told Alan that somebody needed to make it all disappear and that the case could be

Starting point is 02:00:28 dismissed if an unnamed specific person didn't appear in court to testify. He said, quote, if the person doesn't come, then it goes away. That's the only way I'm going to be cleared. And I guess he thought that was subtle enough to not tip off investigators. What an idiot. I mean, this guy also didn't like look up if the jewelry was real before he robbed somebody. So he clearly doesn't, um, he's not learning from his mistakes. Yes. The frontal lobe is not frontal lobing today. I think. Yes, that's exactly right.

Starting point is 02:01:00 So in other phone calls, they heard Michael coaching Yvonne for something vague. He told her to refuse to speak to authorities without a lawyer, and she repeated his instructions as if writing them down on a piece of paper. The morning after Eric's death, Yvonne called Michael and told him everything was, quote, wonderful, which I guess was their key word, like it's been handled. She began to elaborate and he cut her off and said, that's enough. Then he asked if everything was gravy

Starting point is 02:01:35 and she confirmed that it was and ended the call. Gravy, what the hell, what year is this? Past, no. Yeah, everything Everything gravy. Hi, I'm Al Capone and I'm here for on behalf of Hillshire Farms gravy. Okay. Three days after Eric was murdered, Jessica and Alan, so his

Starting point is 02:01:59 his girlfriend and niece visited him in prison and their conversation of, was recorded. So Michael asked Jessica if she personally got close enough to confirm it, and she said she did. But there were strange pauses throughout the conversation. And the investigators realized, wait a minute, they're passing notes to each other. And because they're not visual, they're passing notes to each other. And because they're not visual,

Starting point is 02:02:25 they're just like auditory recorded, audio recorded. They went in and they said, there's no way that they like left the notes in here, right? They had thrown them in the trash can of the visitors room. The one thing these people are not is thinkers. Is thinking ahead at all in one single way ever Because basically they tore up the notes and then dumped them in the trash of the visiting room And of course they immediately pulled them out

Starting point is 02:02:58 Yeah, and it wasn't good news for Michael they found these notes and And it wasn't good news for Michael. They found these notes and the papers basically informed, the first one informed Michael that Eric's death was on the news. So his niece wrote down, hey, Eric's death is on the news. Michael then wrote back instructions to tell the police that everyone was playing video games together all night when Eric was killed. Okay. So Jessica, Alan and Yvonne were all arrested and a search of their things found more notes

Starting point is 02:03:28 that Yvonne had written with instructions from Michael down to the type of weapon and ammunition used in the attack. Geez. In a holding cell together, Jessica and Yvonne spoke openly about the crime while Jessica wept. Now, Jessica's his niece. She's only 20 and she's been kind of roped into all this. Yvonne told Jessica they all did what they had to do to please Michael who seemed

Starting point is 02:03:51 to be, I guess, a skilled manipulator. Like he seemed to hold serious control over his girlfriend and his niece. Basically he told them to do this and they did it. Wow, okay. Alan and Jessica had no prior criminal history at all. And when Jessica's mother died, she had moved to LA to live with Michael and she told him that he was a father to her and she really loved and trusted him and he treated her like his own daughter. And so when he said, you got to do this to me, she was like, okay. So in custody for the crime though, Jessica's loyalty crumbled and she basically immediately

Starting point is 02:04:27 confessed to her part in the crime. She even said to Yvonne in the holding cell, I can't believe we did this. I'm not sad for me. I'm sad for Eric. He ain't never did nothing. So they're basically like, how did we get roped into this? And Jessica- At least someone feels regret.

Starting point is 02:04:44 Like- No, truly. And Jessica- At least someone feels regret. No, truly. And it is very refreshing because, well, we'll get there. Jessica quickly revealed the entire plot to detectives describing her role as the lookout in the vehicle while Alan, the guy, the man, her boyfriend, pulled the trigger and killed Eric. Her aunt said in an interview that Jessica

Starting point is 02:05:03 was manipulated by Michael to do something completely out of her character that she'll forever regret. And she did accept a leniency deal for a second degree murder conviction and a life sentence with possibility of parole in exchange for testifying against him. Yvonne was considered more responsible for Eric's death because not only was she in the getaway car, but she actually was the one who took all the instructions down over the phone. She was the one who told Jessica and Alan what to do. She oversaw Michael's plan on his behalf. So she was sort of like the manager of this whole plot. She and Alan, who Jessica's boyfriend who actually shot the gun,

Starting point is 02:05:43 were both convicted for murder in the first degree and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. Both of them? And Michael, both of them were, yep. Michael, who orchestrated the entire plot to avoid home invasion charges, was ultimately sentenced to death for his role in the murder. Basically, he tried to get out of prison and ended up in prison for longer and for worse and on death row. LOL.

Starting point is 02:06:10 Yeah, and his defense tried to argue on his behalf against the death penalty and he said, "'Nah, I give up. "'I just wanna sleep.'" And because the defense couldn't overrule that, the judge was like, listen, he said it, sorry. Goodbye, defense team. He's going on death row.

Starting point is 02:06:34 And he did. So after headlines focused on what some call, like fuck off, this pisses me off so much. The headlines were focusing on like Eric's double life. Like because he had this- Sex clothes expert. Sex clothes exec, thank you so much. The headlines were focusing on like Eric's double life. Like because he had this- Sex clothes expert. Sex clothes exec. Thank you very much. As if selling lingerie was some sort of scandal. But it turns out like none of his subculture groups or friend groups had anything to do with

Starting point is 02:06:57 his death. He was just a victim of a random burglary and then someone who wanted to keep him quiet. So according to the video of Eric's death, he was murdered at exactly 2 0 9 a.m. on the day of his funeral. Barry was helping remove Eric's coffin from the hearse at Eric's grave side when an alarm on his phone went off in his pocket. And he discovered that this random alarm had somehow been set, not by him to the exact time of 2.09 PM.

Starting point is 02:07:27 Oh! Ooh! And he said he took it as a message from Eric, quote, I told you so. Barry said he believed Eric was sending a sign that the universe is there. Wow. Anyway, that's the story of Eric Poltorek. That's a heavy story.

Starting point is 02:07:46 It's a doozy, huh? Yeah, of course, leave it to people to demonize someone who's just like sex positive and like... And who's been murdered. Like, why are we shaming the person who doesn't shame people when like, what you should be caring about is the fact that he got fucking murdered.

Starting point is 02:08:02 And like, attacked twice. Like, it's not just murdered, but he was attacked, traumatized, killed. Yes. Yes. Yes. And like completely innocent and none of his friend groups had anything to do with it or any of his interests or culture. Yeah. It just, uh, it's a good lesson, you know, dang. Well,

Starting point is 02:08:24 that's not, are there any other Halloween trick or treat shootings that you're going to be telling us about? Because it's weird that there was two so recently. I know, there were other ones. And it's so funny, like, when going through this, I never occurred, like, the Halloween thing didn't click right away. Because it was, like, so much about aliens and about aliens and about like, the actual day of the murder

Starting point is 02:08:48 had to do with Halloween, but like everything around it just felt like so unrelated that I don't think it even occurred to me. I really don't think it even occurred to me. It's like that TikTok sound of like, if I had a nickel, I'd have two nickel. If I had a nickel for every time this happened, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot,

Starting point is 02:09:04 but it's weird that there's two of them. Yeah. Yeah, just like that. Just like that. Yep. Anyway, I guess we're on to our, what is it called? Yappy hour? Yes. We're going to talk about our favorite Facebook groups. And when, when this comes out, well, I think we'll have been done with our winter tour. You're right. Or fall tour. I can't believe it. And now we get a little break.

Starting point is 02:09:33 Sort of. A little break. A little break. Yes. But we'll be back at it soon enough. All right. I'll see you at Yappie Hour, I guess. Okay.

Starting point is 02:09:43 See you at Yappie Hour. And that's why we drink.

And That's Why We Drink - E409 A Traumatic Tern Statue and a Fainting Couch for Two

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