And That's Why We Drink - E417 Breaking into Wallace and Giving Balloons to Priests

Episode Date: February 2, 2025

It’s episode 417 and we’re dazzling and disintegrating. This week Em brings us a classic exorcism, the possession of Gina, which aired on 20/20 back in 1991. Then Christine covers one of Vermont��s biggest mysteries, the heartbreaking case of Brianna Maitland. And we’ll catch each other next time breaking through walls in our dreams… and that’s why we drink! For a list of resources or ways to help those affected by the fires in Los Angeles visit: https://bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp ! The Pour Decisions Tour is going back on the road this Spring! Like a Lady in White, we’ll be popping up everywhere - from Seattle to Boston. Tickets are going fast so get yours today at https://www.andthatswhywedrink.com/live ! ______________________ Get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at http://bollandbranch.com/drink Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://rocketmoney.com/drink today. Right now, And That’s Why We Drink listeners can save 30% on their first order! Just head to http://cornbreadhemp.com/DRINK and use code DRINK at checkout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Like so worried about my sister. You're engaged! You cannot marry a murderer! I was sick, but I am healing. Returning to W Network and StacTV. The West Side Ripper is back! If you're not killing these people, then who is? That's what I want to know.

Starring Kaylee Cuoco and Chris Messina. The only investigating I'm doing these days is who shit their pants. Killer messaged you yesterday? This is so dangerous. I gotta get out of this. Based on a true story. New season Mondays at 9 Eastern and Pacific only on w stream on stack TV Your little stretch big stretch

Don't look at my armpits, I have it shaved No zooms no zooms allowed hello everyone, I'm in my pajamas trying to show you my armpits Are you back in bed? Are you on your couch? You're on your couch this time. I Had to go to my cow in my studio And by studio I mean this really messy room. After recording an episode in bed, what are your thoughts? Did you enjoy it? What are the pros and cons?

This is so much easier. Okay. It really seemed like such a delightful idea. I think I need to find the in-between, which I think is like getting a comfier seating arrangement that feels more natural. I just like, I sit here, my back hurts. It's just not really the most like... I know what you mean.

I'm literally, by the way, this is like shi- That's like a wall behind you. Yeah. A wall, wall. Yeah, I'm in my breakfast nook until further notice. Yeah, see it'm literally, by the way, this is like shipwhips. So I'm just like- That's like a wall behind you. Yeah. A wall wall, yeah. I'm in my breakfast nook until further notice. Yeah, see it's like, you think like, oh, well I'll just sit here. But then it's like three hours later,

you're like, oh God. And so I thought laying down would help. It didn't, laying down for three hours and trying to prop something up actually gave me like worse headache than anything else. Oh. So I'm back, I'm back. You know what I would love? Like an egg chair to sit in with you.

Do you think? Okay, but my fear would be like every time I have to pee or do something, I would like, it would be like such a list. That would suck. You have to commit to the sitting down situation for sure. But once you're in, you're in, made in the shade. Maybe have Blaze come over and tuck you in with a blanket. You know?

Okay, so like one of those where you have, okay, I don't really ever use an egg chair. Is that different from the kind that you balance like the old wicker ones we had on our porch? In my mind, that is an egg chair. That is an egg chair. Okay, in my mind, an egg chair is those retro ones where you like pull the cover down.

Am I crazy? Pull the cover down. Yeah, like at Ikea they have them. Hold on. Like those mod chairs that look like little eggs. Why do I know? I'll say a picture. Cause I think I'm maybe.

Maybe egg chair is like a category. It might be. Like it's one family. This is what I think of, this red and white thing. Aha. Yeah, I would say that's also an egg chair. Right, but like that looks cozy, like one of these like hanging situations.

You know what I want desperately, Christine, is one of the hanging swinging egg chairs. No, I know that's it, that's the key. But talk about getting out of something. I would be going, a million times. I got one of those, it wasn't an egg chair, but it's like a hanging chair for a balcony. And we have yet to set it up,

but maybe once that's set up, I can just sit outside. What could go wrong? Talk about the ambient sounds. I would hear you and your little bird buddy or whatever. Oh, it is next to the bird buddy is where it's going. So yeah, I'd be just bird watching with you all. And I mean, what could go wrong except that currently, let me check, 13 degrees out.

I think maybe not today. And every dog, you know, any, yeah. Also, I personally have reservations, I guess, about a hanging piece of wicker holding my body weight. You do, huh? I wonder why. Yeah, me too. I think that subconsciously there's a reason

I got that two years ago and still haven't hung it up I think I'm a little bit afraid. Yeah. Yeah, I think like I know like there's a chain eventually But there's other things before the chain and I'm going down. There's a chair for sure. There's a chain reaction also when you're in gravity combines Yeah How did it feel for you versus this normal experience for me to sit here versus in a bed? I loved it. You liked the bed part? I like any time that you're engaged whether or not a double chin's involved because...

Okay. All right. Except here's the thing though. Again, you didn't even have a fucking double chin. So actually, no, I was more mad at you when you were lying in bed. That's very kind. I definitely did. I think probably part of the exhaustion afterward was from all the strength it took to not show

my double chin the entire three hour long period. I think if I had fully just been laying like I was watching Call the Midwife or something, you would have seen a different angle. But thank you. I wanted to see like frazzled Christine, like, like you said, like, oh, I'm recording from bed, but you'd clearly gotten out of bed spruced up and then got back in bed. I want to see like the nitty gritty fugly Christine out of it.

That's a really big, big statement. It's a tall order for you, not for me. I think it'd be funny. Maybe we should do that. Maybe one day we should do like, remember during lockdown we had like, and that's what I drink from our couch. We should have locked down from our beds.

And it's like, right after we wake up, we're so groggy. Like, let's just see how much information we can pull out of ourselves. We should just start experimenting, spice it up. Okay. I mean, listen, I'm a hundred percent in. If it involves me not moving my body, that's fine. I'm listen, I'm I'm a hundred percent in if it involves me not moving my body. That's fine I'm in I'm in a hundred percent

It'd be a lot of raspy like It would be a lot of oh wait, I have to pee. Oh wait, I have to take my Zoloft. Oh wait I've taken my oh wait. I forgot my water. Oh wait. I forgot my pants. Yeah, it would be a lot of just like you know, maybe we'll do a patreon for those who who are just destined to take whatever content we Throw it and it's usually really a mess and they they seem to they seem to like it. Okay I do think at some point you and I should at least have some sort of Like a live stream or something where you and I are facetiming, but it like a spooky sleepover. I feel like we've talked about that in the past. Hell yes. Let's do that.

I think that'd be fun. We could do like a Valentine's Day one. I was trying to think of what holidays are coming up. That's romantic. I know. Okay. I know. In bed. Let's do that. Let's make a Scorpio.

Okay. Christine, I got to ask, why do you drink this week? Thank you for asking. You know, when you're just like really heartbroken. What happened? Oh, why? I'm just having a really hard month, but it's okay. It's just like, you know, when you're really heartbroken about something and then you just have to keep going and the world just keeps spinning and it's

fine but you just keep having reminders and I'm not divorced everybody I promise it's not about blaze it's about a different person that I was close with that I've had a had an interesting experience with in the last couple months you know that thing when people say hey set boundaries and I said that sounds seems like a good idea then my therapist said, I just want to warn you when you set boundaries, some people don't like it. And they really fight. And I said, what are you talking about? And then I've learned what that meant

in the past couple of months in a variety of ways. It's ugly. Yeah, it's not cute. It's very ugly. It's very hurtful, but it's okay. If anyone's felt like I've been off maybe in my bed for some reason, or just like a little too off the wall or a little too... Christine and her single chin are just a little frazzled these days.

Oh, no, you froze. I'm sorry. What'd you say? Oh, do you want me to say your single chin again? You want me to talk about that? Oh, I didn't hear you say that. Yes, I do want... I was saying, from the bed, you and your single chin are a little frazzled sometimes. or One tear down my very very chiseled jawline, you know if you ever caught any of that no, but seriously I think it's a tough time for everybody post holidays new year Hey today's inauguration day slash MLK jr. Day and Leona said what's that and I said Talk to your father today girl

Yeah, not today. Um, I did I talk to your father. Not today, girl. Yeah, not today. I did tell her all about Martin Luther King Jr. And then I said, now, when you talk about this in school, pay attention, but I don't wanna talk about inauguration right now. You'll learn about MLK soon enough, but right now I can't think straight.

So it's just one of those days where I'm like, wow, everything just hurts in my soul and heart and body. But I am really, really grateful to be here and I'm really grateful that my boundaries are working despite the fact that they suck. Thank you, Em. That's so nice. I'm also very, very proud of you.

What the fuck is going on? I know, no, you froze again. Sorry, something just happened behind me. Of course, it interestingly keeps freezing as I'm complimenting you. Wait, no way. The computer's like, cannot compute. Cannot translate into zeros and ones. I was saying, I'm very proud of you because I don't know everything that's going on,

but I know some of what's going on and I've been there and it's not not fun You've been there. You haven't been to my particular Abbey in the road. That's not a word particular just because it's so absurd that it sounds like I've invented it in the most fictional Half-assed way possible that nobody would ever believe. It's so fucking bananas that it sounds like, just wait for my memoir someday, guys, okay? Nobody really cares about my life, I know. I mean, I know you care about my life.

One day I wanna write a memoir just to get all this shit out of my head. So maybe if you're really interested someday, it'll come out there. But for now, just know that things are turbulent. But yes, thank you very much. That's very kind, and I know you've had very similar parallel experiences.

I am gonna exercise my privilege in knowing you. I won't be waiting for the memoir, I will just text you. Oh, well you're the only one who hasn't heard the story. I mean, I'm telling you, I have told this now to three people, and the only thing really that's the light, the silver lining here is the faces of the people to whom I tell this story are like, wait, what?

And I'm like, oh, that's not even the half of it. And then I get to say like the next plot twist and then everyone goes, holy shit. And I go, I know, right? With every curse, there's a gift. And even if the gift is something as slim and tiny as like, oh, but the expressions on people's face and I get to tell them is kind of priceless.

You know, you gotta take your blessings with it. You get it. I'm excited to jaw drop for you with my double jaw. Yeah, just call me later. Your double jaw. I'm really excited to give you triple jaw, triple chin. That's how far your chin's gonna go down. It'll just be below the floor. Yeah, underneath. I am very, very, I'm very proud of you. Thank you,

Emma. That's very nice. I don't have to know the details to know like what the grand gist of it all is and I am very proud of you. Also, good luck to you explaining, well I guess you don't really have to explain the inauguration to Leona because she will read about it in a book one day. She's living it, you know, she's living history. Oh I never even asked what you drink. Uh oh you keep freezing. Oh, I never even asked what you drink. Uh oh, you keep freezing. Please stand by, we have to stop the wind. Well, it's been 48 hours and I'm back in my bed.

So I left and I said, I'm never going back. And then our internet went out and now we're back in, I'm back in bed. I gave up on my lofty dreams. But I think it's set up better. I don't know, I have a new microphone, the one that you bought, the USB mic, the mini one. See, let me show you.

Yeah, I mean, I just plugged it in for the first time. We'll see how many complaints we get. You sound beautiful. You sound like you're in high definition. I am. Yeah, we decided that we were going to get matching tiny mics and my purpose was, so when I'm out traveling if I

End up really liking a place and I don't want to leave my adventures, but we still have to record I am now bringing a microphone with me From a hotel to hotel just in case I mean that was my plan too But very quickly my priorities changed and now it's become the microphone I use in bed. So okay Yeah, you know, it's things change, people change, I just you know I just start I start what's the word decaying? What's the word for like it starts? Rot? Rot but like when it starts to fall apart, disintegrate. That's what's happening. Beautiful. Well I think for a disintegrating lady, you look dazzling.

Thank you so much. I'm dazzling and disintegrating. It's like the weirdest oxymoron ever. Em, it was excruciating. I told you why I drank this week two days ago. And then before I could hear your reason everything went to shit and I couldn't hear you at all so I would love to hear the reason you drink and continue this half of the intro. Our poor team is like I'm so sick of

these idiots. We're like we recorded 15 well we recorded for like an hour and a half but we only have 15 minutes of content to show for it. We'll do the rest later this week. You'll find it eventually. Everyone take a sip of whatever you're drinking for Jack our editor because he really does have to just put up with a lot. Yeah. You would think that we're professionals by now but the only reason we got this gig is because everyone liked what bumbling idiots we are and we just we've kept it going. Yeah and it like you might be thinking oh well now they're just they're just putting've kept it going. Yeah, and it like you might be thinking. Oh well now they're just

They're just putting it on for show. I wish that were the case Oh wouldn't that be fun if we don't change that much? Yeah, can we pretend to be dumb at recording? That would be a lot easier for me, but now well less Thank you for asking one I drink because I have given up hope on anything Wi-Fi of this fucking house that I bought You think if you buy a house in Los Angeles, Wi-Fi would be fine. That would be part of the gig. I didn't think that, but that's because I moved far away because I was like, I don't know what's going on in this town, but things are looking wonky.

Yeah. So we do it old school here now with an ethernet cable because there's just no other option at this point. So I drink because I've had to bring dial-up back to the game. But also... That's not quite how it works. But yes, yes. It feels like it when I literally have to plug the computer in.

It just means it's a desktop now. That's a good point. And then what else? Oh, I drink two reasons. One, because I was out with Allison this weekend and we ran into a couple who recognized me. And I think their names. Oh, God, is you're listening. I'm so sorry. I think their names are Kathy and Rafael. They said, hi, it's you.

And then they said, we met because of the show. And it was so sweet that they I guess they said, we met because of the show. No way. It was so sweet that they, I guess they met at one of our live shows. What? That's adorable. I know. And so anyway, that's why I drink. That really got me in the right mood despite all the things that got me in a bad mood this fucking week. This is a rough week, man. I mean, I drink for all those reasons too. TikTok

resurrecting into some weird uncanny valley version of itself. I can't stand it. I went on there that first day I was like, let me see what's going on in here. And I was like, this is like fucking Mad Max, but we're pretending it's not Mad Max. Like, it's like, it's like the facade of tiktok on top of like, just complete. Yeah. I don't know. I don't like that. And then on top of that, we are recording this just after the inauguration speech

and that crazy hand gesture someone made. Yeah, yeah. Well, everyone's saying he's just so awkward. He's just one of us, you know? Isn't it funny? Yeah. Isn't it funny how relatable Elon Musk is? That's what I always say about him. I'm like, I feel like I could borrow a tire wrench from you, except I don't know what that is

and I'm sure he doesn't either. You know how he would hand the wrench to you. At least that. Yeah, yeah. At least I know a thing or two. So we're dealing with that over here. That's the other negative reason I drink. The positive and most apropos reason why I drink,

Christine though, I've been waiting to tell you literally for like a week and a half now. What? Tell me. I controlled a dream. Shut the fuck up. Okay, hold on. Whoa.

Ooh, sweat everywhere. Okay, hold on. Wow. Okay, ooh, last week you told me you had a tattoo. I mean, what's happening? I'm just becoming you. I'm trying to just morph into you. I'm a little worried.

No, I'm just like, I feel like I can't keep up with all the like, the life changes that are happening for you right now. Thank you. You're welcome. I will say a bad reason I drink is because ever since that day I have chased the high and can't do it again. I know. Why do you think I have books and journals

and rip my hair out and follow YouTube channels? I mean, it's just like all you think about. Tell me everything and please. Okay. So I, it's just like all you think about. Tell me everything, Em, please. Okay, so one of the things that I think helped, which there was no controlling this, I don't think. Yeah, just random. But often in my dreams, I have like regular locations. You know, like on like friends,

there was always Central Park. A set, a set, yes. So I have a regular set, which yikes, tell me if my work is affecting me or not. My regular set in my sleep is the Burbank Airport. Oh, that's a good one. And so- Like a good one to remember. Anyone can walk through, walk by.

Now here's what you have to do, Em. When you're at the Burbank Airport, like for tour, you have to check every time you go in if you're dreaming, even though if you know you're not, because in your dream you'll also know you're not. Muscle memory. Yeah, and so you gotta just do it every time you go in if you're dreaming, even though if you know you're not, because in your dream you'll also know you're not. Muscle memory. Yeah, and so you gotta just do it every time you go in that way,

because mine is my high school or my middle school. Oh, yeah, you can't get back there. So every time I'm in my middle school hallway, I'm like, no, I'm not supposed to be here. So yeah. That's good though. The airport. So yeah, so it's the airport, and often that's where I dreams that Eva is in appear because

obviously her and I are in the airport a lot together. But I was having a dream that I was in a Starbucks and I was at a speed dating event. Oh, intriguing. And in that moment, something felt weird when I was mid conversation with somebody. But the weird part was like, I turn and like look over to the other side of the coffee shop in Burbank airport and Alison's walking by. And I didn't have the moment of like, oh, I'm cheating.

I had a moment where I thought like, I wonder how she'd feel about this. And that's when you, oh my God. And so that made me think like, why am I speed dating right now? No way. That's quite a complex like thought process. I'm usually just like,

well, hey, that's not a real dog. Well, also it's like, it's interesting because the thing that had to stir, if I saw Eva there, I probably wouldn't have even thought anything because she walks through the airport all the time for me. Even now you're gonna be like, Am I speed dating?

What's happening? Am I speed dating? Call Allison. But I think it's like sad in some ways because it shows how little I travel with Allison. But seeing her in the airport was like, how long will she travel with me? It was like too uncanny.

I was like, this should rock me from another dimension. You don't belong here. So I remember thinking like, where is she going in an airport without me? But I'm also at the airport, that's weird. And I remember having this moment of being like, am I supposed to, like, what's going on? Anyway, so from there I was like,

that feels as wild as a dream. And then I went, am I dreaming? Oh my gosh, wow. And then I went, I think I'm dreaming. And then I remembered in my dream, the thing to do the finger thing. Yay, yay, oh, I'm so happy right now. But I didn't do the finger thing.

I put my hand, I saw a wall and I was like, I'm gonna try to put my hand through that. And so my hand went through the wall and I went, oh shit, this is a dream. And then I went, I'm gonna throw my whole body into the wall. Yes, yes. That's what you do. Just fucking impulsive decision making.

Yeah. Dangerous. I thought in in I'm staring at the wall in my dream and I remember thinking this could really hurt. And I was like, and I was like, but if I'm dreaming, it's going to be fine. And so we'll just see how it goes. And I just ran into the wall and all of a sudden I was like in another world. It was very cool. That's so cool.

And then I kept controlling the dream for what felt like an hour, but it was a lot of- What? But I kept sticking my hand in things all the way through. That's what you do. That's what you do to ground yourself. Wow, Em, you are a champion. I knew you'd be good at this.

I knew it. Ever since you told me you don't have lucid dreams, I was like, you, there's something about you. It's gonna happen. It's gonna click. I remember at one you there is something about you. It's going to happen. It's going to click. I remember at one point there was I even found like a I don't know. I stuck my hand through like paint and I remember seeing the like the paint and dripping off my like the elasticity and like it was like almost dried paint.

So it was kind of stretchy from the other side. Isn't that remarkable? And I was like, wow, like, like my whole hand can go through this. Yeah. And then at remarkable? And I was like, wow, like, like my whole hand can go through this. Yeah. And then at one point someone walked by and I remember always hearing on like tech talk and everything. Maybe she rest in peace that, um, that you're never supposed to ask someone like their age or why they're there because like you might be, I always, and maybe that was something I should have listened to,

but instead I went over to him and I went, how old are you or am I dead? Or I said something, some crazy thing. Yeah, that'd make it weird. And he looked at me and he paused. And we both at the same time went, ah, like you shouldn't have said that. Wait, that's hysterical.

Em, your brain is amazing. And then I remember thinking, I don't know, I was able to control a few things. And the whole time I was like, wow, this is really cool, this is a dream. Like I was very aware the whole time. That's amazing. That's amazing, especially for your first one

to be that involved. Intense. Because the first time I realized it, I was like, oh my God. And then I woke up and I was like, mother, ever. But yeah, it's the grounding where you're about to slip out of it and go back into dreaming. And you're like, no, you have to make your consciousness present, which is so hard when you're just

distracted by everything. And that is, wait, so when you went through the wall, what was on the other side? Oh, okay. So I think there was a time shift because, okay, so early context is I, not that I've been, well, I guess I've been trying to lucid dream just because you can do it. And I was like, well, maybe I can give it a shot. I didn't mean to make it a lucid dream thing. It was just a way that I was meditating at night to like fall asleep. Oh, that'll do it. Your hypnagogic state.

And so I call it breaking breaking into Wallace, which is so stupid. Excuse me? Breaking into Wallace because at some point I had a dream where I remembered very vividly going into another world and the only way I did it was by punching through a wall and I named the wall Wallace for some reason. No. And so now I'm like, okay, as I'm falling asleep,

just try to break through the wall. And so I literally just meditate on like punching a wall until it becomes a different texture and then I can get through, like climb into the wall. Oh my God. So you like basically walk yourself into a dream. Yeah. That's amazing.

That's what, see, that's one of the biggest techniques that they say to do if you wake up in the middle of the night, it's so much easier to like just drift right back into a dream. And so if you stay conscious enough, as you fall back asleep, you can almost like walk back into your dream. And it sounds like you're doing that, but from the beginning, which is like really hard to do. Wow. And you're like a fucking prodigy. So thank you. Well, so walking, when I ran into the wall, I feel like I accidentally went backwards because I think because wall and wall,

when I tried to dive into the wall and see if my body would go through it, it was like breaking into Wallace. Breaking into Wallace? Okay, wait, sorry. Now am I, now it's like I'm dreaming because this sounds so insane that I'm like, wait a minute, maybe I'm inventing this.

This feels like something I'm gonna tell Em on the podcast. Like I had the weirdest dream that you named a wall, Wallace. I did, and I break into it every night to get into my dream state. But I love that because that's what I did when I, because I kept putting my finger through my hand and it wasn't working and I was like, oh, this dream's trying to fool me.

Like it's trying to, because my finger wouldn't go through and I was like, I know this is a dream. So I was like, I looked around and there was a brick wall and I was like, fine, watch me put my hand through it. And I put my whole hand through it. And that's when I realized I was lucid dreaming. So I did that same fucking thing. Maybe that's the key, everybody.

I pretty much like, I kind of do this move a lot with Wallace until all of a sudden I noticed like the stone is becoming like a putty. And then I just kind of like- It's reminding me of that like American horror story like latex, like that creepy- Kind of, but I think more like sensory dough. Yeah, I get that.

And then I just kind of climb in once the wall's soft enough. You like peel your way into a new world. Wait, so when you said, so what does breaking through wall is mean? Does that mean you fall asleep or does that mean you- That means I'm in the main frame. I've broken through, I've like crawled enough in

that I'm now in the dream. Like I'm now like in a dream state. Wait, so have you been lucid dreaming this whole time when you do that? If that's lucid dreaming, then yeah, I guess. I don't know. But like, how do you know you've broken into the Wallace? I'm asleep usually. I've been dreaming. I've been actually dreaming. But it seems to be something where like I sit there and meditate and until the point of being asleep And I don't know if it's speak

I don't know I'm already such an active dreamer that I don't know if I'm doing anything by trying to start off in a dream as soon As I fall asleep But anyway, I just I've been calling it breaking into walls as a term of like, okay, close your eyes I try to go to bed just break into walls try to start dreaming I- Wow. And that's just when you first go to bed. Yeah. That's why I try- I'm just taking notes for tonight. That's just how I, I just try to fall asleep

by getting myself into a dream. Maybe that's why I have such a hard time falling asleep because I'm doing two things at once. Yeah. You might, because you're working. Do you, when you dream, oh, sorry, when you fall asleep, what was I going to ask you? Is it, cause like I have you fall asleep, what was I gonna ask you? Because I have just insomnia, I'll just lay there for hours. Do you have a very vivid and tactile imagination?

Is that how you're able to do the pulling through the wall? I guess so, yeah. Are your eyes closed and you feel it, you imagine it? Okay, interesting. Yeah, I pretend I'm just like so curious. Pretend I'm truly there. Wow. You might be like, you're maybe like sending up a new technique.

I don't know. A new method. Yeah, new method. But anyway, so I just, I've always just thought it was just meditating. I didn't know it might be actively trying to enter a dream. It is meditating too, yeah. That's so cool.

Thank you. Well, so cool. Thank you. Well, so anyway, it worked. And all of a sudden I was at the airport. You should try it during the day. Oh, honestly, I have fucked myself up with it. That'll fuck you up, probably. Because even just talking about it, I got really tired.

So- Oh, I see. It makes you sleepy. I see. It's like, oh, now I think about, because also like, what's more tiring than trying to break through a wall with your bare hands? You know, so-

I mean, honestly, that's really interesting. I wonder if tonight, maybe you and I both, I'll text you, well, you go to bed late and I go to bed late, but not as late because you're three hours ahead or behind me. We get a second in another realm together. Okay, so I'll just say like, I'll break through Wallace now and then you find where I broke through Wallace

and you come join me later when you come to bed. And maybe then we'll both be like behind the wall, over the wall is together. Yes. I don't know. I don't know either. I just, it's something I just say in my head. Obviously, why would I say that publicly?

Like I am right now. I sound like a crazy person. Don't worry. I won't tell anyone. Cause it actually actively makes perfect sense to my brain. So I'm like, that's why I thought I was dreaming. I was like, this sounds like something I would make up. And then it's not.

So I do remember naming the wall Wallace in a dream. In a dream. See that's why I thought I was dreaming. I was like, this sounds like something I would make up. And then it's not, so wow. I do remember naming the wall Wallace in a dream. In a dream, see that's amazing. And I remember in the dream thinking, no, that's comedy. No, that's gold. That's like the time that you dreamed that you invented the names. Oh, Lydia Chlamydia and Leah Gonorrhea, yeah. Like your brain, this is what I'm saying.

It's a palette, it's a dazzling palace. I feel that you don't give it enough credit. And I also feel that I knew someday this lucid dreaming would kick in for you. And I knew you'd fucking love it. Because I mean, you literally can create a world. It's like VR, but it feels real. I am chasing that high. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Because I also, when I'm trying to get sleepy, I've done the. I am chasing that high. Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Because I also when I'm when I'm trying to get sleepy, I've done the thing I've told you before, where I pretend I'm Iron Man and flying around. I do that too sometimes. And it actually is calming. I've tried that. It's very calming, but it doesn't make me sleepy. I think because I've done it too much that my brain now goes, I know this game. That's not going to work anymore. It's like we'll just do it on loop.

Yeah. So I had to come up with a new tactic, which is the breaking into Wallace. How long have you been doing that? I think a couple months. Hmm, interesting. Not your month, one month. Yeah, it works. Seems to work. It worked that one time.

I just keep waiting for it to happen again. So anyway, that's why I drink because I have first crack out of the box. I just sort of, okay, I guess I'll lose it. I feel like now whenever we see a wall, we just need to like put our hands through it. And there's a lot of walls. Oh man, there are everywhere these walls. Who knew?

Have you ever seen that people ask the question like, what do you think there's more of doors, was it doors or wheels or something? Oh yeah, it's fucking annoying. It's like when you're trying to work for Google or somewhere really smart. It feels like something Zandy would have an immediate answer to.

He knows, I'm sure he knows it already, yeah. It's the same thing with walls. He used to take those quizzes for fun. Yeah. Talk about joining us in the neurodivergent world because I feel like him and I could really just fall into a very long. I could see it being a very good,

sober, in-depth conversation, and I could see it being a very good, sober, in depth conversation, and I could see it being a really like knockout drunk fight also. Oh, like ding ding ding. That's why I like it, because no matter what situation you're in, it's a good conversation. It's spicy either way. Mm hmm. Anyway, all that to say, I've been waiting. Like three days, two days, I don't know how long I did these these notes. And I was so jazzed about them.

And then my fucking Internet went out. And I was so upset because I worked really, really hard on these notes. It's not going to be in the episode, I don't think, because I'm sure we. I mean, I don't know. Maybe we didn't. But I think we stopped recording as we were like deciding to cut it short. And was like, dang it. Like basically, I hit their fist on the counter like, darn it, my story was really good, Kristi.

I was like, wow, I'm actually really disappointed. So I've been waiting on tender hooks. Thank you, I'm very excited. And by the way, I drink this week, two London Fogs from that shop nearby that knows me by name just by my Uber Eats order, because they always write something on the cups. So yesterday it said, and that's where we drink all over the cups because because I'm ordering a London Fog and like three of them at a time.

So who else could say next time it should say, are you dreaming? And then every time, you know, a little remind. If they're listening, maybe the cop next time will say, you've broken into Wallace. My name is Wallace. Or no, they'll send you an extra, they'll send you an Americana and be like, this is for Wallace.

You put them through a lot. I sure have. Anyway, this one comes with like a cold foam. It's the most delicious cold foam I've ever had in my life. But I just got it all over my hands. That's why I'm like licking my fingers like a monster. Okay, well, I'm actively moving around and trying to be so quiet. So I'm sorry, everybody has to decide either to listen to me moving around or I'm licking

their fingers. I can't decide which is worse. Oh, man. It's such a good drink. I wish you were here to try it. It's a new year and it feels nice to develop a new self-care routine. Just switch things up a little bit. I don't know if that's like massages, manicures, aromatherapy, just more naps during the day.

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rocketmoney.com slash drink. Okay. And by a lot of hard work, I got to be honest, this one was a very easy topic to do because there was no information I couldn't get from the televised version of this. I love when that happens. And so this is pretty much a play for play on something that was televised a long time ago, but I don't care. It's still interesting. And how did I not know about it until now?

Yeah, I don't have time to watch a televised thing unless it's thousand pound sisters or whatever it's called. You love them. I do and American Primeval, which is so scary. I don't know what that is. Oh my god, it's that new Western and like I watched God. I'm watching Godless again. Have you seen Godless? Didn't know it was a thing. It's so good. Have you seen Westworld? I

have worked on Westworlds No, I haven't watched it I have not watched it well I gotta say it's it's about the Wild West and it's about the trials and tribulations of pioneers going West, Mormons going West and the tribes that are out there and they're teaming up with certain groups and there's some outlaws and oh my gosh, it is so gruesome and scary and alarming

that I have to watch the Office super fan episodes at night just to undo a lot of the fear of these like shootouts and stuff. Anyway, so I'm gonna get cozy. It's snuggly, yeah. So this is- Well, look at my Western little lap thing. My little lap desk is cowboy.

She's always with you. Have, have you broken into Wallace? Why is there Western stuff already showing up now? That's weird. Oh my God, I love that my brain's like, all right, let's go to the fucking wild west. She never wants to go anywhere else. Okay, this is the possession of Gina. Possession of Gina, just Gina?

Just Gina. Wow. Just a simple girl like you and me. I doubt it, somehow I doubt it. So, let me see, how did I write this? I wrote these notes with a plan to have a certain cadence and now that it's been two days, I think- Iambic pentameter? Can you imagine?

Honestly- That'd be so impressive if the whole poem was just a haiku. We can just tell the AI, the chat, the DUT or whatever, like, can you put this, my notes in iambic? I wonder if it can do that. That'd be funny. We should do like how I met your mother, the rhyming episode. That was classic.

Talk about a scripted episode though, because we couldn't fuck around the way that we do. Unless we're really good at riffing. I'm looking at you. See, now I'm scared. OK, here we go. ABC through the hang on, let me hang on. Let me read this. So let me sing the alphabet. What's happening, ABC?

What? See, it's arrived. Check one, check one. What's happening? Oh, okay. I obviously messed up. Did you write like the ABCs of something? Like the ABCs of time travel? No, I talk about ABC like the news report. Oh.

Okay. I thought you were like, oh, this is another intro class. The ABCs of? ABC, I should have put, I know what I should have put and I just fucked it up. OK. According to ABC, that's what I should put through the 20th century, as people learn more about mental health. Obviously, we know that the blaming of like possession

and the extra system all declined. Yes. Do you know when it was reignited? Satanic panic? Okay, that was, that's a good one. Apparently, satanic panic stems from in 1973 when the exorcist came out and that just like rejuvenated everyone's fears. Which sounds like we were on our way to paying attention to psychology and then the exorcist came out and then

everyone went, never mind demons again. Damn it! So our story today is in 1991 which again satanic panic thank you for mentioning that. It's a great year that's that's the year that everything changed. The ultimate demon was born yes. So the story is in 1991 a year before that a Gallup poll came out asking people about superstitions and 55% of surveyors believed in the devil in the country. How many? 55%, more than half Americans that at least took this survey believed in the devil.

49%, which I'm just gonna call half, believe that people are sometimes possessed by the devil. Oh my God. And that was in the nineties. Wasn't that far away? Yeah. I wonder what the number would be today. Oh, you don't know now?

No, we should look it up. Here, what is it? Gallop? Yeah, a Gallop poll, believing in the devil and then believing in possession. Oh, here we go. From 2023, Gallup News, belief in five spiritual entities edges down to new lows.

Well, thank you. Okay. 74% believe in God, 69% in angels, 67% in heaven, 58% the devil. What? It's gotten worse? How is, well. Belief greatest among frequent churchgoers protestants

and republicans oh well okay yeah nearly three and ten do not believe in hell or the devil okay so i guess this is just like girl your eye makeup oh no oh no oh. You're good now. You're good. No, that it worked perfectly as we were in disbelief that people have somehow increased our beliefs. Yeah. So apparently, um, uh, a high of 74 to 59%. Wow. Okay. So it's gone down because here it says that 90% of Americans in 2001 believed in God 90% and now it's 74% so that's wow. So that's interesting that there's a big drop in believing in God But believing in the devil. Well, I mean, I don't know because that's surprising Well, I also think about 68% in 2001 and 58% now, sorry.

I do think, I mean, I guess I fall into that category because I'm pretty staunchly at least agnostic if not atheist, but I also believe in like spirits and- Yeah, you can't be that atheist because you believe in like coming back to earth and stuff. Yeah, so I guess that does make sense. You have spiritual beliefs. Hmm, maybe I, because You have spiritual beliefs. Hmm.

Maybe because I have spiritual beliefs, like the thing of like I'm spiritual but not religious. So maybe that kind of it nixes God out of the situation and keeps everything else. Yeah, but I think a lot of people say like, oh God or whoever it is to you. You know what I mean? People are kind of vague about that. I mean, probably not the 58% or whatever. Interesting. I don't know. Look at us learning things together. Wow. that I mean probably not the 58% or whatever interesting

Look at us learning things together So one of the reasons in the 90s why that number might have been influenced of like people more than half of Americans believe in this One of the reasons it might have been a big deal is because that year That the Gallup poll was taken there was an announcement made by Cardinal John O'Connor that year that the Gallup poll was taken, there was an announcement made by Cardinal John O'Connor that said that exorcisms, thus demons, are real, have been kept hidden, and are still, the exorcisms are still being used to this day. What do you mean they're kept hidden?

There's literally a blockbuster called The Exorcist. I don't think they're that secretive, but okay. Hidden from reality. Yeah. Or hidden from the public as true fact. So, Cardinal O'Connor, he also stated that not only are these things real and not just made up in movies,

but quite recently we just performed two exorcisms in New York alone, where I am in charge. Bragg? I author, I know, quit bragging. I authorized these two exorcisms in New York alone, where I am in charge. I know. Quit bragging. I authorized these two exorcisms, and one of them was performed on a 16 year old girl named Gina, which why are you giving away that much information about a minor? I was going to say, why would you give her information?

Why wouldn't you do the not 16 year old? Yeah. Why would you just say two people and then end it there? Or not say any of this shit? I don't know. He sounds like he's trying to prove something. So anyway, Gina, let's talk about her. She had already been through a couple of psychiatric stays and evaluations for symptoms of what would be called today epilepsy and maybe some sort of schizophrenic or a schizophrenic adjacent situation. Her psychiatrist, which honestly proud that that she had a psychiatrist in the 90s, because I feel like that was also a little still taboo.

Gina psychiatrist at the time called her, quote, very agitated, struggling with basic self-care needs and actively psychotic. Oh, no. So by 1991, her symptoms had kept her at a school for many months. Well, by 1991, her symptoms had kept her out of school for many months. And although this matches the psychiatrist description in different words, what the church described her as was suffering from violent seizures, suffering from vomiting, probably from the seizures. But I think they're trying to make it sound like she was vomiting, like the like a possessed person. Right.

Screaming in odd voices, seeing demons as well as seeing people who have died. And the church said that these visions were hallucinations of evil. OK. So she has gotten a diagnosis from both camps, I suppose. So the church discovered Gina when psychiatry, I guess, wasn't helping enough at the time. And Gina's mom, Felicia, she went to a local healer about Gina because she was just so desperate for answers. The healer, of course, said, oh, she's possessed.

Whoopsie daisy. And so Felicia went to a church for help. And that's how we ended up getting this church evaluation of her. OK. So the church put together a team. This is, by the way, I guess, how you do it. And that's how we ended up getting this church evaluation of her. Okay. So the church put together a team. This is, by the way, I guess how you do it. This is how the exorcisms happen.

The church put a team together to evaluate the alleged possessed Gina. Which, how do you put that team together? Like, are they... I can tell you I looked at the team because... We'll get to that in a second, but I have seen what the team looked like. I would have thought it's a spooky room full of like high priests. It was like your friend Kelly from down the block. OK, you need to watch evil. You need to watch evil. That's the whole premise is that it's a team of three, a psychiatrist, a priest.

It sounds like a joke a psychiatrist priest and a scientist and they're basically hired by the archdiocese to assess whether whether Possessions are real or not Well, yeah, yes, I do need to watch evil. It's really good. It's a really good show highly recommend to everybody. It's creepy They do lucid dreaming stuff and sleep paralysis. It's a really good show, but it is. It's like, they basically show up on people's doorsteps and everyone's like, you're the ones that church sent.

Like every time it's like, wait, you? It's like, are you supposed to be approachable? Is that how this is supposed to work? I don't know. But yeah, so they got a team together, a little squad, probably from the water cooler or something. Rag tag. Yeah, they were the water cooler or something. Rag tag. Yeah, they were the ones at the snack table.

So they got suckered in and became part of this evaluation team. And this team did an investigation on Gina, which like, what are you looking for that the church didn't already discover? Watch evil and you'll find out there's so many things. Apparently, investigations can take up to six months, fun fact. discover. Watch evil and you'll find out there's so many things. Apparently investigations can take up to six months, fun fact, and that's how long genus took. But like if she's coming in hot with all these like actual symptoms of something else wouldn't you already kind of have your answer? Anyway they also had two

priests leading the case. One was the official extra... case. One was the official extra. Two fingers up and a bunch of balloons sky because it's a Mac, the Mac, Mac graphic when you do two fingers. But my computer is too old, so it only what happens when you do this. Nothing. My spirits just flag a little bit. That was a middle finger. I just wanted to know, like, does Apple do something? Because that would be real funny.

I love that they're like, that's too far. They have such an opportunity for something hysterical. What is going on with everything? Okay. Hang on. Let me rearrange my hair because it's out of control today. Great. Oh. So they had two priests leading the case. One was the official exorcist of the New York archdiocese named Father A for anonymous. OK. Father Acosta, that's his name on evil.

I'm just saying this is starting to sound really familiar. Was the person they were doing this to named Gina? They do a different case every episode or not. And yeah, but maybe I'm sure there was a Gina somewhere. Does this name sound familiar? Father Labar? There's a little something. Oh, God. OK. Well, so the first thing that these priests did or that they at least claim

that they did was they looked into her medical background and like this is a quote from Labar. He said, you have to make sure the afflicted has no prior or current medical problems. But like, okay, she does. So. Right, so what was her official diagnosis by the psychiatrist? The working theory was, I mean,

he said the phrase actively psychotic. So some sort of psychosis. But there was no diagnosis of like epilepsy or anything? Right. So I'm guessing because there was nothing on paper, they got to say that she was cleared. That's weird that they wouldn't, but why wouldn't they diagnose her if she's having seizures? Honestly, honestly, because she was 16 at the time, maybe they can't tell us an official diagnosis. Maybe the records are sealed, that's true. Why would they be telling us her, yeah, right. They did tell us her symptoms,

which it sounds like she wasn't leaving the psychiatric facility she had a hold at without a diagnosis. So maybe it's just cause she was a minor. Maybe. But yeah, so the first thing out of this guy's mouth is well, you have to make sure that they don't have

any current medical problems. It's like she's literally been, she's had psychiatric stays. Like she, like this is not a candidate you should be doing even considering an exorcism on, but then again, I guess if you're looking for someone vulnerable who fits a bill, then sure. After looking into their medical background, they looked into her symptoms to see

if they matched the criteria for possession. That's a big thing you gotta do before you claim anyone's possessed. Do you know Miss Thing with your degree? Do you know what? What degree? I don't know, you keep saying that. You've learned it on evil,

so let's see if evil talks about this. Oh, I was like, you and I have the same degree Don't put me on this one. What are the four criteria for possession? Do you want to guess? Oh, geez It probably is on evil. Um, I Don't know I have no idea Okay, well there is unusual strength Okay, there is unusual strength. Okay.

There is signs of levitation is one of the four. Signs, signs and symptoms. Exactly, what are signs of levitation? I'll show you. Ooh. Okay. Then there's knowing things you shouldn't and speaking languages you shouldn't know.

I mean, that's fair. That would be alarming, all of those things. But then I feel like unusual strength, anytime I meet anyone with any strength, I think they have unusual strength. So that's like, how do you... You know what I mean? Like I was hanging out with Tanner, and like he put me in like a headlock, and I was scared for my life. I was like, you're possessed. You have an unusual strength.

You are unnatural strength, yeah. And then knowing things they shouldn't, I mean, that's just taken a guess sometimes, you know? So that's two things, am I possessed? What about being psychic? You're also psychic, I think. So I feel like you may be in trouble. In my dreams, I have signs of levitation, certainly.

In your dreams, I've heard you walk through walls. I have not spoken a language I don't know in any world, though. So I guess that means I'm in the clear. Not wait till you do that. It's fun. Oh, great. Well, so you convince yourself that you're really speaking. And then like I woke up one time and I was like, I repeat, I said what I had said in my dream out loud and I was like, oh, that's nothing. Like I was like, oh, like I woke up and I was like, like I woke up and I was like,

I can't believe I was just speaking Russian. And then I like said something and it was just like a bunch of sounds. And I was like, that's okay. My brain has gave me a lot of credit on that one. You know how on an AI, like if you look at like what a book says, like the language is not fair.

Yes, it's like that. I feel like that's how I talk in my dreams because I'll also remember someone said something really fucking wise, and then I say it out loud, and I'm like, did I miss five words? You're like, why did that seem so mind blowing in my dream? Well, okay, in Evil, there's this episode where they're trying to figure out if she's, and she's a scientist, so she's like staunchly atheist,

like staunchly, you know, scientific. And there's a part where she has like a little, she has sleep paralysis and there's a sign on her ceiling with writing because she realizes that in her dreams, she can't read words, like they're like, they just look garbled. And so she puts writing on her ceiling so that when she wakes up and if she's having sleep paralysis,

she can look at that and see like, oh, this is a dream. And it looks all garbled. And she knows she's dreaming. I was like, that's genius. Are you gonna do that? You're gonna put something on your ceiling. You know what? I'll do I have my my tattoo on my arm I can just look at my tattoo and if the numbers look off, you know shit. That's a great idea Yeah, I just thought of that How about you Christine any unusual strength on your end and Certainly not. Unusual weakness, I think. That's what I got, yeah. I'm in bed right now. I don't think feats of strength are my strength.

What about signs of levitation? Again, very, very horizontal. Very weighted down right now. But thank you for asking. Yeah, I guess that could be nuanced, right? Because sometimes my brain certainly feels like it's levitating. Right, sometimes I leave my body physically. Sometimes I don't feel so bogged down by society and I'm like, oh, I feel light today, like I can move. Is that a sign of levitation? I don't know. It could be, metaphorically.

Well, so step one, assemble a team of church people from your fellowship club, I suppose. Step two, have them do a six month investigation on you where they check into your medical background, even though you're a minor, and definitely have some mental health issues, but let's negate all that. And then step three, see if they have signs of levitation

and some other things. Okay. That's so far how an exercise works. I like that, like, in that theory then, if they're just like floating and like that in that theory then, if they're just like floating and like throwing buses across the city, you're like, but let's start with the medical records.

But they don't speak French, right? Yeah, they're not speaking a language. I think they took French in high school. So like, even if they do speak French, it's not that weird. I mean, you know what's funny is you and I obviously can speak Latin, which is the one they should fear. Obviously, and that's scary, speaking Latin. Like, eke un especturo es un puelo nomine Cornelia.

But here's the thing, if I said that in Spanish, I'm more likely to be possessed because I actually. Oh my God, they're definitely possessed. You know what I mean? By like a Mexican farmer who says, the girl in the field, what was it, the girl, agricola on the farm. That's whatever the fuck that Latin phrasing is.

Well, so this is what Father A had to say about checking out these four signs of possession when it comes to Gina. Father A said, sometimes the person I'm investigating will react just by the fact that I've come to see them, which I would also react like a monster. That is reasonable. If a priest, I'm sorry, the archdiocese's official extra system mistake came to piss at me. Hey, called Father Anonymous, are you fucking kidding me? Don't give Father Anonymous permission to enter my bedroom. Are you out of your mind?

I too would have unusual strength all of a sudden when my adrenaline kicked in and I ran away. When I pushed him out the door aggressively. And knowing things that I shouldn't know, I'd know immediately that I was in trouble without anyone having to tell me. Oh my God, so anyway, it's interesting that he's like, people just get startled when I'm around.

It's like, yeah bitch, you're the official exorcist. You know, but it's funny, cause like on the show, so he's really hot, the priest on evil and he's- Of course. He's also black, so he's always like, yeah, it's always just like jarring. I mean, it's the character on the show, but he's like, he shows up and when he's wearing

his like clerical collar, all of a sudden people are like, oh my God, you know, it's just very like jarring because he's like this sexy hot guy, you know? And it's like, whoa, you know, it just feels very, anyway, it's a, listen, this show is really good. It sounds like just fan-fixed galore, you know? It's like pretty, yeah, it's like pretty spicy sometimes. Someone rips his clerical collar right off.

I mean, it gets pretty, it gets a little spicy for like a TV drama type thing, but it's, yeah, it's good. It's good for him. Sorry, now I'm just imagining what's out there on like Wattpad. Oh, I haven't even thought to look, actually, nevermind. I'm just imagining what's out there on like Wattpad. Oh, I haven't even thought to look. Actually, never mind. I don't want to know.

Now you've got something to do. I've got a hobby now. At no point, by the way, did the priests that are on this case ever imply that Gina has had all four of these signs of possession. So are you, are they saying like you're required to have all four to meet the criteria or you have to have like one or two or at least two? You know, based on the fact that she didn't have all four and they went along with the exorcism, I'm going to guess you only have to have a certain amount.

Some of them. OK. Which like, can you imagine just being like Arnold Schwarzenegger and you're unusually strong and outside, get on in the church. Well, I heard that accent. He's speaking all sorts of languages. Certainly not speaking English. Something's going on. So yeah, at no point did they say she had all four.

And then, like, remember I said, like, church goer Kelly from down the lane? She's the only one who said, oh, I heard a story from her mom that she's levitated in the past. Oh, Lord. OK, so hearsay on hearsay. Yes, exactly. She said, Gina has absolutely levitated in the past. Oh, Lord. OK, so hearsay on hearsay. Yes, exactly. She said Gina has absolutely levitated in the past and been dragged through a room by unseen hands.

So she's moving around all on her own, which isn't even a sign of possession. That one should certainly be on the list. I would say, but once you start. Yeah, but once you start adding. I mean, levitation just feels so specific. I feel like they should have done like unnatural movements, you know, and then they could have a much broader, but that's also more dangerous

because then you have seizures and stuff. Yeah, exactly. Cause then like you're a witch. Might as well stick to just levitating and hope that doesn't happen. So when the priest observed Gina, these are some of the things that were off, I suppose. She knew that Father A had been up,

knew what Father A had been up to the night before and was able to give like actual names, which like in the 90s is impressive because in today's world, we just stalked him before he came over. Snapchat, yeah. It's like, I know what's going on. After that, which fun fact,

I wonder if because of social media today, can they even insert that claim in the list of possessions of like, you have to get more specific now of like knowing things you shouldn't. Knowing things you don't know, it's like, well, you could know that. Yeah, yeah, probably have to be much stricter. But I imagine like even the programs

where psychic mediums need to test in to these like programs where psychic mediums need to test in to these really exclusive psychic medium programs, I'm sure that they have very stringent rules and stuff about, because now that the internet's around, I bet you have to change all the rules about. Really, well and a lot for other people. I imagine it's a lot harder to figure out what people, yeah. It's really hard to fake your way into an exorcism. Yeah. Or a lot easier a lot of people. I imagine it's a lot harder to figure out what people, yeah.

It's really hard to fake your way into an exorcism. Yeah. Or a lot easier now, I guess. A lot easier, I guess. So after all this, basically the two priests on this, Father A and Father Labar, they said, OK, great, let's go to the bishop. And he gives us the stamp of approval to exorcise Gina,

which again, it took six months after the entire investigation. Jesus Christ. Okay. So the bishop said, oh, okay. Yes, she needs an exercise. Oh, okay. Yes. Now, after she'd been approved, this is where elsewhere in the story. ABC 123. ABC News, they are, I guess, looking at that Gallup poll

about people's like beliefs in the superstition. They're also looking into Cardinal O'Connor saying, "'Oh, exorcisms are very real and they do happen and we've kept it under wraps, except now I'm just gonna blurt out impulsively that we've done two of them or we're doing two of them or whatever.'" He shouldn't have been the face of this for the press conference

because he really needs to keep his mouth shut. Anyway, I don't know if Colonel O'Connor had done his, done that speech yet. I don't know if just the Gallup poll was out, but something's going on in the world where ABC was like, we need to cover this as a segment piece. Okay, okay, okay. This is, this is hot stuff. This is hot ticket item. White hot on the news, hot off the press. Yes, so ABC reaches out to, I guess, all the churches. I don't understand how they found someone, but they reached out and quote, "'After several conversations

"'and the full consent of clergy and family, "'we were allowed to watch an exorcism. "'And not only watch, they were allowed to broadcast "'an exorcism on TV for everyone to watch an exorcism. And not only watch, they were allowed to broadcast an exorcism on TV for everyone to watch. So we could all watch. Yes, exactly. So this piece ends it up, not just being covered on ABC, but on 2020.

Do you remember 2020? Still watch 2020. Do I remember 2020? 2020 was a mainstay in my family. 2020 is still very popular. Well, at the time that this came out, I think it had ran for like 13 years, and this ended up being one of the most,

the one of the most watched segments in its history. I think almost 30 million people viewed this exorcism in broadcast. They say sex sells, but M&I knew from the beginning. Demon cell. Ghosts, demons, that's the shit. That gets people shelling over the big ones. That's why we're recording from shiplap in bed.

Ha ha ha ha. Well, so they ended up, yeah, broadcasting this exorcism. 30 people, 30 million people watched it, which I would love if they did some sort of collab like ABCX Gallup poll. I mean, nowadays it would be like sponsored by Frito-Lay and it would have like all this fucking or like crazy. Like, what's that one that screwed everyone over that that Bitcoin that like... Oh, Bitcoin crypto? Dogecoin? Not Dogecoin, but like, yes, crypto, like one of those crypto websites that like ended up... Crypto.com.

Maybe crypto.com. Yeah, I feel like it would be some stupid shit like that. They would make her wear like some sort of like, like Citibank shirt, you know, like while she's being exercised. And be like, Flo is here. Flo is, we're like doing celebrity shots on beer pong, but like for exorcist placement. I, well, so they- Listen, maybe we should get into marketing.

Fuck this, fuck this, the whole podcasting thing. The big bucks, I've changed my mind. They're now in exorcist. Let me get exercise in my city bank financial shirt. That sounds like a real wild time. So she, they're gonna broadcast this, 30 million people. What I was gonna say is I'd love to see the Gallup polls after watching a fucking broadcast of an exorcism

and see if the numbers changed. Fun fact, the way that I was able to do all these notes is because of this 2020 segment. So, which is still out there. It's on YouTube. It's at like very nineties. Yeah. Because I watch 2020 like all the time now when it's on and I feel like I'm so used to it as it's got,

because we watched it also as kids. And I feel like I would be so used to it that like getting thrown back to the nineties, I'd be like, holy crap I don't didn't realize like how absurdly different It's been 30 years, but you know what the real treat is though Is that because it was clearly like someone video taping this some dad out there was like a fucking exorcism being broadcast Hell, yeah, I'm taping that on my BCR, I told you I needed to buy that new Sony camcorder

from Radio Shack. Well, so someone videotaped it and then later digitized it and put it on YouTube for us. Fuck yes. Oh, sorry, tape the, I thought you meant tape the actual exorcism mic with a camera. You mean tape the program. Someone watching the program was like,

we obviously have to, because remember back then, we couldn't re-watch it later. Pre-Tevo, yeah, gotcha. Like you only get one shot, so obviously have to, because remember back then, they couldn't rewatch it later, you know? Pre-Tevo, yeah, gotcha. Like you only get one shot, so you have to record this if you want to see it again. So he, this guy, I'm sure, this dad that I've made up in my head, he obviously taped it on his VCR knowing that-

Or like one of ours, like one of our listener types. Someone, someone taped it, they put it on YouTube, and which I like to think that it they put it on YouTube and Which I like to think that it was actually this video went to goodwill and then someone unassumingly bought this video and it's mad exorcism gold mine But because it was just a recording on a VCR of live TV That means in between our ads and so if you're wondering how 90s it can get, here are the ads that play in the middle. This is why I love you. One for Subaru, and it's a red car

that looks like a very old version of mine. Thumbs up from a N. Team Subaru over here. Sprint, which they called themselves at the time, U.S. Sprint. U.S. Sprint. Were the ads like the same as they are now like funny or were they just like informative? It was all like a telenovela

like how do you feel about this? You know? Oh geez drama. Okay. Then an example of that was shocking in the 90s. I didn't know they sold these products publicly. Gynolotrimin, which is for yeast infections. Mm, yes. Then they always had ads for that yeast infection stuff. Your favorite in mind, the Sony Walkman. Oh, Sony, I knew it. Avis car rental. Wow. This is so boring.

ABC Sports was just like it was just like their general watch ABC for our sports. Then there was which I wonder if that was like if this was a formula like oh there are four like products that get a sale or five products get a sale then we just rep ourselves for the rest of it because the next ones are all things that I think you could find on ABC. So it's ABC Sports then it was a TV show called The Young Riders, which sounds very Western to me. Oh, writers. I think he said writers. Okay. No, The Young Riders. And then a movie, an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, fun fact. Shut up. Called Raw Deal.

Called Raw Doggin' It with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Raw Doggin' It with the OGA. With Arnold. So those were the ads in the middle. Okay. Just to, just because I typed in 2020, just because I did, um, my intrusive typing and, uh, apparently it's on season 47 now. So. You go girl. Yeah. Get it. That's the raw deal. You know what I'm saying? That's the raw dog. If I, if I've ever seen one. So those ads played fun fact. Now, ABC, like we said, got involved

because they wanted to cover exorcisms for whatever's going on in the news. They got some conversation kicked off with this church who was about to do, like perfect timing, right? Of like, oh, funny you should ask because we're literally about to do an exorcism on Sunday. You should come on over. Funny timing.

We all saw the same Gallup poll in the Wall Street Journal and decided this was now timely. So now ABC is following the case. And that is when we get to watch the rest of this unfold on camera in front of everybody. So post investigation, we are, ABC comes in to film the day of the ritual. The ritual. And of the ritual. The ritual.

And before the ritual begins, the price, the price, the priests gathered a team of helpers, which I'm wondering if they're the same people who did the evaluation. Or if it's like they needed someone to be the the muscle and they needed someone to be security, you know. One of the next thing I write. What? I wrote out the people that someone to be security, you know? Want to know the next thing I write? What? I wrote out the people that needed to be there

and people to restrain her. But in Prenseys, I wrote older than I expected because they were like 80 year old women. Like, what are you doing? Everything feels off about this. Like, why are we? Why are we like, this is a girl who should have not been cleared. She has like severe mental health issues.

She's a minor and is in active psychosis right now. That feels like, wow. Let's think again, active psychosis. Can she give informed consent right now? No, I mean not. And especially as a minor. Yeah, no. So anyway, there's that.

Then they're bringing people in to restrain her who are definitely like the church elders who like just wanted to be involved, I think, just to say they could do it. But anyway, before that all happens, they have this ritual where they have a meeting with the people who are going to be helpers and basically giving them a 101

like an hour before it begins. Like, oh, like, well, thanks for volunteering today. Here's what's gonna happen. Yes. Like teaching them on the fly. So an example is at some point where the priests tell everyone, do not address her by her name or any other name, because this thing is like looking for an out and wants to be addressed and wants the attention, blah, blah, blah, blah. So don't even speak to her by name. Don't say any of the other names she says might be here, nothing.

You should not be learning that the hour before. Yeah, that feels like something that now is gonna be on your mind. And you know how they say like, don't tell anybody don't do something because your brain just hears do something. It's like, you shouldn't have said, don't say this. You should have been like, do say this.

What if someone you like love recently died and like has a common name, like John, and now she's saying the name John, like you're gonna react to that, you know? Like, I wonder if they... Oh, I see. So if... They're saying don't react if she says a name or... It's any... If she says her name is Gina

or John or Zozo or anything. Oh, I see. Okay, okay, okay. So even if you're like, oh, my loved one. Don't humor her or don't with anything that she says. Don't give into it. Okay, I see. So then in this group,

I said the people who restrain her who should certainly have been replaced by other people. Then there's- I don't know. I'd rather be, I'd be more comfortable with 80 year old women restraining me than like- That's true. Men. That's true. But I don't think they were that conscious in the nineties of that. I'd rather be, I'd be more comfortable with 80 year old women restraining me than like men. That's true.

But I don't think they were that conscious in the nineties of that. I thought you meant the 80 year olds. I was like, they were unconscious? Well, that's certainly gonna be a problem. There was a therapist as well, a doctor, a nurse, a translator in case she like spoke any other languages. That's genius.

That one I was appreciative. And now technology would be so helpful for that. You just hold up your phone. Chat GPT, what is this demon saying girl? Can you put this in an iambic pentameter chat? Can you make it rhyme when you tell me so it's easier to ingest, digest? I'd really like to write a children's book after this.

Can you just speed up the transcribing? Baby's first extra-cism. And then additional priests are also there, I guess in case people's book after this. Can you just speed up the transcribing? Baby's first exorcism. And then additional priests are also there, I guess, in case people need to tap out. Several days before the exorcism, the priests, I guess, start praying and fasting before they do this thing. Like Father A said that he fasted for at least a week.

So now this guy's not in his right mind, but he's about to do this. Now they're hungry and cranky and hangry. Father A then said, I could die tomorrow. I could be attacked. I could be taken over. It's a very frightening experience. But once you walk down this road, you can't go back.

Oh, okay, relax. Fucking Zach Bagans wanna be- I'm pretty sure I have gone down roads similar to that. And I do come back every time when I go, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actively say, I'm leaving and you can't come with me. I'm leaving, we are not connected to each other.

Helpers then get the room ready by removing all things that could be projectiles because she might throw shit everywhere. Oh, good. Apparently in past briefings where they have seen or during the evaluation period where she was like, having signs of possession, she would throw certain things and they were like, oh, we have to take this down, take this evaluation period where she was like having signs of possession, she would throw certain things and they were like,

oh, we have to take this down, take this down because she was already grabbing it last time. It's like having a toddler. It's like, well, don't hang that up because she'll just pull it down. Yeah, there's a knob there. We got to cover the knob. We get the sharp corners.

Yeah. So then Gina stops by the convent and the group and the priest hold a mass with her. And according to ABC, this is a quote, Gina is unaware of her purpose of her visit to the convent. Father A says secrecy ensures demons cannot prepare for the surprise encounter. Oh, no. So certainly not informed consent.

How could this get worse? I didn't think it could get worse. I guess she had informed consent that like it was coming if they were evaluating her. So she sort of knew that it was happening, right? But like- I think she knew like eventually it would happen. She didn't know today was the day. Yeah.

Oh my God. So intervention. And to keep the demons from knowing, okay, whatever. They know the second you start fucking praying over her. This is like seriously weird. So it sounds like, well, she's a teenager and she won't want to get out of bed if she knows what's happening today. So like, let's just not tell her. That's like seriously weird. So it sounds like well she's a teenager and she won't want to get out of bed if she knows what's happening today so like let's just not tell her. That's what it feels like. Or like we're afraid she's gonna back out so let's just do it without telling her. So she shows up thinking she's just there for like a meeting with her mom and then

they start praying over her doing a literal mass. The team surrounds Gina while the priest has her drink holy water to stir the pot like piss piss off the demons, I guess. Um, and then he quote probes her psyche to figure out, to figure out what demons he's confronting. And by probe her psyche, he asked her questions. Yeah. I was going to say probe her psyche. What? You gave her a questionnaire. Yeah. He just said like, what are you thinking about? And she was like, I'm thinking thinking I don't want to be here. And he was like, we have to be here.

Yeah. So then Gina begins retching, as they say. But it honestly to me just sounded like she was burping from the holy water. Gross. That shit has oil in it. Why are you drinking that? Should not be drinking it. Gina then makes an odd sound. OK, I do that. OK. Um, then in a deep voice,

she says, Gina said to me, I have to go. I don't want, I don't want to go. You understand? You understand. I don't want to go. Okay. Oh my God. Sorry, girl. You're gonna have to go I guess. Creepy. So The next clip is Gina speaking in another language, which is a sign of possession, but it just sounds to me like i've seen enough of those like Like coverings of like people doing like speaking in tongues in church. Yeah, exactly. Yeah That's me in my lucid dream speaking Russian How did you know that? That's me trying to read a book in exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's me and my lucid dream speaking Russian That's me trying to read a book in AI. Yeah, how could you understand? There's she's speaking in tongues, which I guess is speaking in a language. No one else can understand sure Technically sure. Yeah, so I guess

Then they hold her down all three 80 year olds They're just asleep. They just kind of hold them on top of her. By the way, or then like, she's unusually strong. It's like, no, girl, she's just 16. Like, she's not 90. She's unusually strong for people whose muscle mass decreases over time. Yeah, so wild. It's like, oh, where are our volunteers?

And it's like these three elderly women. Quilt Quilting club has shown up and you're like, damn it. I thought we'd get at least a few able bodied young men. It's like, it's like holding down me holding down RJ and I'm like, he's unusually strong. It's like, no, he's just actually trying. It's actually the exact ratio that the universe has. He's actually the standard. You're disgusting. Yeah, yeah, you have a problem. So they hold her down and they start praying and she screams, get out of here, I don't want to leave. Me don't want to leave, we all want Gina. Me don't want to leave, gross.

As if it can get worse, don't baby talk. That's like, that like makes you, talk about retching. I'm gonna ret retch me. No, want to leave. OK, OK. Yeah, exactly. It's like, let's use some grammar here. If you really want to leave, you can speak another language. You can't say I doesn't know how to fucking read. Come on.

If anything, he knows better English than we do. He's been doing it long time. His name's Bielsa Bob. You could say Bielsa Bob, but not I. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really? I got it together. The priest said that this I really appreciate this part. The priest said that Gina's face then changed in a way where they knew that Gina was no longer present. She just looked mad, girl. Yeah.

Well, it's not it's's usually a sign of a personality disorder and or active psychosis. Girl, come on. I've seen this face happen to people too and I'm like, uh-oh. I think I've seen this film before. Yes, and I'm going to hell now, but it's all metaphorical, you see.

It's not metaphorical, it's real, but it's not Catholic. It's just the state of our brains and hell is on earth. That's what I believe, Gallop. You got a little check mark for that? Thank you so much for whatever I just said. And also, like, I mean, she looked really, I mean, she was bugging out for sure, but like when he said, oh, her face changed,

she really just looked like a pissed off 16 year old. Like, okay. Yeah, honestly, and you should be afraid. Oh, her face changed. She really just looked like a pissed off 16 year old. Yeah, honestly, and you should be afraid. A bunch of adults who just pissed off a 16 year old should be afraid. It feels a little new agey witch trials where it's like, oh, well she looks really angry and she has unusual strength.

It's like, she's a hormonal 16 year old who has mental health issues versus a bunch of old people in the room like of course she scares you. Skin tags and hair in weird places like nope that's just another human it's just how it is it's not the devil. It just felt very like old ideology meeting like new world problems or like fucking normal world problems not even new world. But it seems like if anyone our age were there, we'd have been like, yeah, she looks pissed. Everyone's holding her down chanting over her. It's very archaic way to talk about a situation that's kind of obviously.

Yeah. Yeah. Something else. He then says, this is a quote from Father Ray. Gina was no longer present. That's when the entity manifested itself by revealing who he was. Oh my God. Okay. And then Gina, very creepily, I will say, she said, my name is Minga.

Ew! And my favorite part, okay, so then in the comments, someone- Yes, the comments, this is what we needed back then. Today, we have comments, thank you. Someone in the comments, I don't know if it was on the YouTube video itself or if I saw it in like a different, a different source,

but someone said that her and her brother were like kids when this came out and they remembered watching it. And my name is Bingo the way she said it was so creepy to them that they were just, it became like a staple. They said all the time. I mean, it's like jokes. Yeah. But they would say just scare it's like jokes. Yeah, that.

But they would say to scare each other around corners. Yeah, of course. And then she said like, we were both so scared of the basement so anytime one of us went down there, the other one would shout, my name is Minga. My name is Minga. I mean, like, of all things, that's one of the creepier ones because it's like, it's

like sounds playful and childish, but like, what the fuck? That's so creepy. I just remember the way that I wish I kept like a screenshot of like that, that Reddit comment or whatever. Cause it was like, it was like our favorite thing to say to each other as a kid. And like, and we would even say it to like, try to make each other laugh in silent spots where you're not supposed to laugh. And you go, my name is Minga. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Minga. You could like, spell it out in sign language, be like, Minga. It's like you drawing those fucking sexual

sick figures when we're on the news. Exactly. I was like, honestly, the power of one of those that like just fucking choke holds you and a sibling or you and a friend like it just The power is unmatched. It got me. We're gonna be cooking. So anyway, she says my name is Manga The priest is creepy. I don't like that name the priest then like Manga Hey, how do you feel now father whatever? Well, he then puts a cross on her forehead. And you can see that he's pressing it in a little hard.

But so he then says, you want pain, I'll give you pain and like presses the cross in her head. No. And then Gina whispers, ouch. Is that the demon being funny or is that Gina just being like a douche? Or is Gina like, hey, what the fuck that hurts? I mean, later on, they do like a like a post like two months later kind of thing interview. And they were asking her like about how it went.

And she even says like, he was just really hurt. He was just pressing into it way too hard. But there you go. Like that wasn't a demon. That was just her being like, get the fuck away from me. So then Gina seems to be back to normal for a second and tells everyone that there are 10 demons in her body. Two of them are Manga and another one named Zion.

And before we even I don't even know what to do with this. I'm just reporting the news, folks. She said Manga is a very short woman and Zion is an African from the jungle. I don't even want to know. I don't even want to know what that means. Anyway, there you go. In case you were wondering how you could like place them

in your head with a very, very broad description. Cool. Anyway, so Father A starts to read the Rite of Exorcism, puts the cross back on Gina's forehead. She starts trying to wriggle away and she screams that it hurts, probably because it fucking just generally hurt. She screams, stay away, I don't want to go, help, do something, somebody Somebody help me and then start screaming in tongues. Oh my God. This is so dark. The team of geriatrics hold her down and they actually tie her down because they couldn't hold her because she was so strong. Suzy, pass the speckled 45 yarn.

I feel like that's a Pixar movie waiting to happen though, like in a frenzy, like you can only trust the people who know how to knit really good. They're gonna embroider you to the wall. Yeah, they're witchy in there. It's like a lady who was going to yarn club, knitting club, but actually went to the coven and they're like, actually we could use your powers.

I mean, I know you haven't seen Agatha all along, but she reminds me of like Deborah Jo Rupp's character, who is literally just accidentally there. And she just likes gardening. Like, oops, I just stumbled into this, but I guess it works. I guess I'll just actually start knitting it down. All right. Yeah, fuck yes. Meanwhile, she's screaming and wriggling as it as things get too intense and of course is she screaming somebody help me get away from me because she's a person

who just wants to be out of the situation is her mental health issues is in distress in some way yeah um so father a then said thank god they were tying her down because it could have led to levitation um god forbid we get levitation on TV. ABC News immediately gets the scissors out. They're like, cut those strings. She needs to float. The producers like hack away at that chair. They're like, do a peace sign. Balloons fly everywhere. It's just, just go with it. It'll impress the nation. So they they this is what he says. It could have led to levitation if she wasn't held down, because she could have then if something wasn't holding her down,

she would have risen to the ceiling so nobody could touch her. So I was like a defensive tactic. I mean, that would be pretty kick ass. I would have loved if that could. Like Spider-Man just. Right. Like, OK, let's see it then, if that was so bound to happen. Gina continues to scream and tries to fight off people holding her down. Father A calls this the confrontation stage, you don't say. Father A then said, anytime he looked at her,

he could see the hate in her eyes, which she did look like she hated everyone there, but is it because a demon doesn't want an ex-son? My mom said that to me all the time when I was 16. Yeah, but I made those, I still make those eyes at my mom. I'm still doing it, yeah. Gina then starts shouting, sinners, the world is getting worse. More wars are coming.

Do you understand? Jesus is going to take all of us. He's going to burn a lot of people. Whoa. Which like, okay, that one I hear you on. Okay. Things are not as funny as they were a second ago. Yeah. Uh, then she starts barking and then she's rolling her eyes, uh, which again, you're 16. Uh, she says, I don't like you.

And then she speaks in tongues and wags her tongue around and creepily smiles like, ah, but I think that was literally in the and creepily smiles, like, -"Aah." -"Eww." But I think that was literally in the exorcist. And I feel like if an exorcism is about to be performed on you for research for R&D, maybe you watch that movie, you know? Well, and you're going on fucking ABC and all your friends are gonna see it,

like, you want it to look real, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't know if she's playing along or if she's really... If she's actively psychotic, there's no saying what, you know. Yeah, I know. But wow, wow. Well, so Father A then commands the demons to leave, which like, if it's that easy, why?

Why didn't you do that? Okay, whatever. After six hours of commanding the demons to leave, apparently the exorcism is over, which how do you know that the exorcism is over? Like, couldn't they be tricking you into thinking they're gone? No, there's all sorts of ways. They test it on evil.

Okay, I'll watch evil, Jesus. You trick them with a little sharp thing or you do all sorts of stuff to see if they're really there or if they're still like hiding in there, you know? Well, Gina seems to be fine now. She hugs her mom, is obeying the priest when he like tells her to do certain things. She seems totally fine.

But that night, apparently, Gina claimed to hear voices again in her bedroom. So Father A goes over to the house and did an exorcism on the house, which I wonder why that wasn't approved. Maybe it was part of this current exorcism. So it counted. Well, I bet the exorcism in the church

was a better setting for a televised, like, it feels like the vibe is just like, oh, let's do it inside a Catholic church. Yeah. I don't know. Well, so after a few days, post her exorcism and post going over and doing some sort of blessing or exorcism on the house, a few days after that, ABC reports that Felicia, Gina's mom, had to bring Gina back to the hospital, the psychiatric hospital, because things hadn't gotten better. So what do you know, the exorcism didn't work. And she had to stay there for two weeks.

I mean, it probably aggravated it. Like, I don't know that for a fact, I'm no doctor, but like, if this is nothing spiritual at all, like this is just harmful then. Yeah, I mean't know that for a fact. I'm no doctor. But like, if this is nothing spiritual at all, like, this is just harmful then. Yeah, I mean, you're... And putting it on display for the world, like, yikes. Yeah, there's, I mean, imagine even having people knocking on your door to interview you about the actions.

Like, I mean, even just the world now of having televised something like that. Like, now you put yourself... And being recognizable, yeah. Like, you gotta be beyond stable to keep up with that shit. And like she's already going through it. Yeah, exactly. So her doctor reported after these two weeks that she had to stay.

The doctor said that Gina would, quote, distort reality, but not to the degree that she had previously. And this was because they put her on meds and did a lot of therapy with her, which seemed to help. They put her on an antipsychotic medication, and she was continuing that medication after she left the hospital too. So ABC interviewed her psychiatrist,

which was the same one before and after her exorcism. She kept going to the same guy. And the psychiatrist said he's never thought somebody could be possessed and he doubts anyone can be possessed. So he thought this whole exorcism thing was like not worth anyone's time. Hey, I wonder whose opinion I'm gonna believe.

Well, so meanwhile, Father Labar was asked the difference between psychosis and being possessed and how we can tell that Gina is possessed. And he's the expert. So let's hear what he has to say. Yeah. And he's, this is a quote, because I still am trying to unpack it. It feels like AI wrote it. I'd have to ask whether the psychiatrist believes possession is possible first. And just because it's psychotic doesn't mean we should exclude the presence of demons because I always ask them them being psychiatrists All right, you've explained it this far. But now what what's after that? It's still happening and they can't answer it

What do you mean? That's like saying now what cancer you can't you don't know what it is No, I do it doesn't mean we can stop it or figure out like what the fuck or work know how it works Well, now, you know what the mental health is, but since you have a fixed it fucking sense That's really and I like he's like well before I could see it first way I didn't describe the difference between possession or psychosis He just said like well does the psychiatrist believe in possession because if no then it's gonna be like is that your definition is Like whether or not the doctor believes in, has faith? First of all, it's like what psychiatrist?

We're not talking, we're asking you, why are you talking like, what's not about, this is just straw man argument. He thought it was a neat little gotcha. But so the interviewer then says, well, since Gina is doing better after medication and therapy, do you think the exorcism was a success or a failure?

Yeah. I love this interviewer. I love that they said with medication and like not, oh, she's doing better, but like, she's doing better with all her medication and therapy. It's like, oh, well, she still had to go back to for the same symptoms to a hospital. So what do you think? Like days later. And the bar said this, the drugs treat the natural part of her issues.

But what I believe, and she has said consistently, is that the voices don't bother me anymore, and that's whether or not she's had any drugs. So he thinks that the medication is just an additive to the fact that he fixed her. I mean, I figured he would say that, so I guess I'm not surprised. Yeah, my jaw remains in place. So meanwhile, the interviewer then asked Gina's therapist, do you think the exorcism contributed to her now well-being? And the doctors went, I doubt it. See, that's, it's called a concise answer. Okay. Like you don't need to go on some rant about

what the psychiatrist might believe and blah, blah, blah. Like, so not only that, but the psychiatrist said something that you just alluded to where he said the exorcism probably actually made things worse for Gina. And he's, this is a quote from him. If her delusion is that she's possessed, then the exorcism might've confirmed the delusion. So now on top of her act of psychosis, she now also thinks she is possessed. You're basically like creating this reality where she's possessed and that's why this is, it's like dangerous, I mean it's really dangerous.

And also if she is ever in, having a moment where she believes that she's possessed and even an exorcism didn't fix her, then what's she gonna do now? Was she beyond help or what are you trying to say about her? That's so scary. So two months later they re-interview Gina who is still on medication and she says I feel poor girl I feel much better thanks to God for liberating me from evil I feel much better. Okay. One thing

I appreciate that ABC did is that they asked someone who was both a reverend and a psychiatrist. Okay because I was like this feels very polarizing. Yeah, and he basically said that people are just gonna, it's all about perception and what you believe in, that you're just gonna twist it into whatever your own background is. So he was not much help, but I appreciate that ABC tried to talk to somebody

with both backgrounds. There was a lot of differing opinions, I will say, even in the church about filming and broadcasting and exorcism. Oh, really? Some thought that it brought attention to those who are possessed to let them know that the church can help them and the power of prayer. But other people thought that, especially like super religious people, they were like, this is turning Catholicism rights into a sideshow,

and it violates the whole idea that this is like a private ceremony. Like sanctified in some way. Yeah, so others worried that Gina and her mother actually felt pressured to do the broadcast, slash could Gina even give conformed consent, informed consent? I don't think she could. But people think like maybe they felt pressured to do this because like how often is the church doing exorcisms right when ABC wanted to do something like a segment piece on this. Oh yeah and you convince you know someone

convinces the mother or whatever and then all of a sudden it's like well the kid has to go along with it. Yeah and also think about like maybe they were getting paid in some way to contribute. Maybe they had some money issues. Maybe the church was pressuring them of like, if you do this, yeah, the mom was desperate. Also, um, I saw from a few sources that she was an immigrant. I don't know if that means that she was like, I don't know. I don't know. Like if English was her second language or not. That and people like the sources I was reading were

implying that maybe they were threatening that like she needed to do this or they would like give her issues about sticking around. It sounded like there was like some extra conspiracy on top of that. But I don't really know all about that. So, but I would imagine even like the church saying, if you don't do this, then you're doing it a service to God

and people who might need help. And so then they feel pressured that way or. Right, or like we won't participate unless you agree to the ABC thing. And then it's like, well, shit. Yeah, exactly. So we don't know how, how into doing this they even were. Entertainment Weekly came out with something to say

because this is a televised experience. And even Entertainment Weekly was like, are we cool with a whole fucking exorcism just being broadcast on TV? That's good, they asked. And so Entertainment Weekly put out a quote saying, with technology advancing at a rapid rate, how far will reality TV go?

Oh, that's funny. With the thirst for sensational invasions, with the thirst for sensational invasions taking us further than 2020 exorcism rituals, how about live electroshock therapy treatments? How about on-camera abortions? A video verite crime of the week. The experts disagree on the future of explicit TV.

Wow, that is... Additionally, and shockingly, some church members actually thought that the broadcast harmed mental health, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, okay. A lot of them thought that this actually trivialized actual mental health, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, okay. A lot of them thought that this actually trivialized actual mental health problems because you're putting exorcism before a doctor's opinion.

Yeah, I mean, to say like, oh, she's hearing voices, it must be the devil, it feels just so medieval, like middle ages, you know. Yeah, a lot of them believe that by showing an exorcism to the masses, it promoted archaic solutions to current problems, and people might lean into archaic solutions instead of getting actual help first. Yeah. And they fear that it could be misleading,

misleading to people who have true mental health issues that should seek help. So even other reverends were calling televising and exorcism indefensible. Yeah. And pretty shady. This guy, his name was Father McBrien. He was very against the idea of broadcasting this. He later appeared on ABC's Nightline program, which I looked everywhere for.

No one has uploaded their VHS recording of it. No! But he seems to be so against this. And there was another former exorcist that chimed in also. And he said, this is a quote, "'Over time, these people that we treated revert back. "'You're simply dealing with mental problems "'and they need professional help.

"'The church should not be doing this kind of thing. "'I've witnessed people who have died because of it.'" And that's a former fucking exorcist saying, exorcisms don't work. That's the voice I pay attention to. Somebody who was in it and is out of it now. Wow. Yeah. And the one thing I'll say is or the last thing I'll say is, fun fact, soon after this exorcism, Father Labar, who participated in this,

he became the chief exorcist of the New York Archdiocese. So a lot of people think that maybe he did this just to further his own agenda. Interesting. I mean, yeah, also the other thing that you see in evil is the are the politics. Yeah, the Catholic Church and you know, it's just a very traditional and powerful hierarchy. So not totally surprised by that. Yeah. Anyway, that was a long one But it was I wanted to do a play-by-play because how often you get to just watch a video with everybody I cannot believe it. I'm gonna watch that just for the commercial. I watch it for the commercials, you know Well, that was the possession of Gina. Yeah, I mean Indeed it was and I'm glad that you didn't give me a last name

because it means at least they didn't give her name. I wonder if that was her real name or if that was a fake name. I don't think it was her real name. I think it was a fake name that they confused. Okay, that makes me feel better. I love that it all started with that guy going, yeah, well, I did too just this week in New York.

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Well, I have a story for you today as well and it's a sad one. It's one that I've wanted to do for years now. I'm excited to tell you the story, but it's pretty heartbreaking. This is the story of Brianna Maitland. Okay. So we go back to 2004, which somehow is 21 years ago now,

which also means my sister turns 21 this year. Wow. Wow. Are you gonna be her first drinking buddy? Yeah, we're going to Margaritaville, the new Margaritaville. Yeah, I'm really amped. You know I love Margaritaville. That's where you and I are going to, right? We better, we better. I'm very excited because we said it as a joke when they first announced they were opening one, but now it's become such a plan in the family that I'm like, it's too late. We've unironically decided to go now. So I'm excited for that to finally open up, I hope, on time.

If not, then her 22nd birthday will be a riot. Sure will, yeah. Okay, so Breanna Maitland. 2004, March 20th, a state police officer in Northern Vermont responded to a possible car accident. Someone, it seems, had crashed their vehicle into a house on the side of a country road. So the officer arrived on scene and he saw exactly what had been described.

There was a green Oldsmobile, but when they said, driven into the house or crashed into the house, he didn't realize till he got there that the car was backwards. So it was almost like the back end of it had crashed through the siding of the farmhouse. And it had gone into, I mean, it had, what did you call it? Oh, it broke into Wallace.

It broke through Wallace or broke into Wallace. And it broke through the wall and there was minimal damage to the vehicle. There was also nobody in the car. The house was abandoned, so there was nobody there. And behind the house was this large field and just some woods. So there's this empty car backed into a farmhouse,

empty farmhouse, empty field. Interesting. A plywood board had been nailed over a window on the side of the house and that had collapsed outward onto the vehicle and nobody had like brushed it off or anything. So whoever had gotten the car there had left the scene with, you know, without barely touching anything. There were no neighbors around because this is a pretty isolated area, so no witnesses as to what happened. And the drivers who noticed the accident on their way didn't have any clue either. They had just seen the car there and called it in.

So of course the officer's first instinct is, okay, well, probably somebody abandoned their vehicle after drunk driving and didn't want to get in trouble for crashing the car and left it there. And that's like reasonable enough, out on a country road, you can see why that would be their first inkling. Someone may have picked this person up, like maybe they walked away from the car and walked home.

But according to- Or what year is this? Cause they could have just called their friend and been like, you can't come get me. It was 04. So yeah, it's possible that they just like called a friend or just walked back to their property or who knows what, maybe someone else was with them.

But either way, he wasn't too worried. He reported the license plate number, he looked inside the car and he found some personal belongings in the car that were able to help him identify the owner. Among these personal belongings were several uncashed paychecks from the Black Lantern Inn.

This is a local hotel and restaurant in Montgomery, Vermont, and the checks were made out to Brianna Maitland. Now, the officer drove to the inn to ask about Brianna and the vehicle, but the restaurant was closed and another report was called in and he just moved on and had the Oldsmobile towed to a nearby auto shop and hoped that the owner would just come by and claim it. And he never followed up with that car. He just got busy and was like, I'm moving on and kind of forgot about it.

And, you know, unfortunately. Well, it seemed innocuous enough. It seemed innocuous. And he just thought, well, I'm not gonna, you know, go reporting this. He should have followed up with the family and made sure like they knew the car was there but you know whatever. So five days later on Thursday March 25th a married couple arrived at the State Police Department looking for answers about

their daughter who was reported as missing just days earlier. So the officer asked them to describe their daughter's vehicle, which was also missing. And the couple said, well, the vehicle that she drove was a green Oldsmobile. And the police officer was like, oh, right, a green Oldsmobile. I think we saw one of those recently. The couple that had come in were Kelly and Bruce Maitland.

They were the parents of Bri Bruce Maitland. They were the parents of Brianna Maitland and her name was the one on the checks found in the vehicle. So this is obviously her car. And when Kelly, her mom, saw a picture of the abandoned vehicle she said in an episode of Disappeared that she wanted to vomit. She's like I saw saw the car abandoned, parked, backed into a farmhouse. And she was like, I knew I knew something terrible had happened. And also, I would be so I understand like what you mean about like the guy being like, all right, I put in

I put in the information and, you know, I just kind of went on my day. It was an innocuous like seemed like it was a drunk driver. Yeah. Cutting, cutting, was a cut and dry case. But I can't imagine the anger steering through me on the other side of like, how did you not fucking follow this lead? That was before she'd only been missing for a few days. And it's like five days ago, they found this car and just had it towed. Nobody took pictures.

No one looked at the license, like looked up the license plate. They did, they like noted it, but then they just had the car towed and like didn't follow up with the family, didn't check to see if Brianna was okay. Like he went to the restaurant, it was closed, he just left. And I know that that happens.

And I know in probably 99% of the time that gut instinct is like, yep, you were right, so I'm drunk, you know. But then the 1% when you don't follow up and it turns into this is just like, so not worth that risk, I think. So Kelly sees this picture, she is like, the wind has knocked out of her,

she feels like she's gonna vomit. For days now, she had hoped that Brianna had driven herself to a friend's house or to see a boyfriend. Like when Brianna and driven herself to a friend's house or to see a boyfriend. When Brianna and her car were missing, it was a lot less scary to her mom than when her car was found and Brianna was missing. Right, because it could have been like, they took a road trip and never called us or something.

Yes. Yes. Maybe she just went to a friend's house and is mad at me and she'll come back. But now it was clear that something was very very wrong and so the officers obviously knew that they had completely mistook this car for an abandoned vehicle so they began backtracking through the previous week to put together a timeline that basically followed Brianna and her Oldsmobile. So Friday March 19th that had been a good day for Brianna. Her mom had taken

her out to breakfast that morning because she was taking her high school equivalency exam, so sort of a GED. And once completed, she would get her high school diploma and she had been really pushing to become a high school graduate. So this was a huge deal for her. And so this was a very big day. That was March 19th, Friday. Okay. So Brianna had grown up on a rural farm with her parents in Vermont. She was fiercely independent. She was that kind of teenager who always dreamed of moving away. She wanted to either go to Toronto or New York City. And she often felt very lonely and just felt out of place in her kind of rural town, her small town. One friend said in an interview that Brianna often worried about everything from

how she was perceived, her grades, her looks, her reputation. And she always felt like she wasn't doing it right. Like she was just not fitting in the way that she wanted to. In there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was difficult for Kelly to understand why other kids wouldn't like her daughter. She considered her daughter very, very kind, but she said maybe people thought she was just naive. She was always like smiling,

always looking for the best in people. Apparently one time Kelly came home from work to find a teenage boy in their kitchen. And she was like, who's this? And Brianna was like, oh, well, there's this teenage boy. He was hitchhiking and I couldn't just leave him on the side of the road. And so her mom was like, she would just like help anybody

without thinking and like she may have just gotten into trouble because she was vulnerable in that way. That feels like such an without thinking. And like, she may have just gotten into trouble because she was vulnerable in that way that she was like- That feels like such an easy explanation of this too. Too open-hearted, yeah, exactly. And so Kelly said Brianna thought everyone was good at some point, at some level, and there was good inside everyone, and that everyone had problems,

and some maybe just needed more help finding that niceness than others, and she was the person who wanted to give them that kindness. And her friends called her loud and goofy, a partier, just like- Lit up a room. Lit up a room. And she definitely loved attention. She was the kind of gal who, when she drank, got a little bit loud and excitable and fun and like she wanted to be the life of the party. She also liked attention from boys. And that just was something

she found affirming, you know, she was always seeking to fit in. She could have just fallen into the lap of like a Ted Bundy of like, can you help me do this and yeah, easy. He's a guy giving you attention and you could be helpful and. Exactly. Yeah. She was also, and I felt uncomfortable by the amount that they mentioned this on the show,

but she was beautiful. Like she's really gorgeous. And so it's like, you know, I mean, she, for the time, especially it's so funny, like you can see like the very plucked eyebrows, like you can just tell the very plucked eyebrows, like you can just tell like she's beautiful. And not that that should be relevant in any context

other than that could have made her additionally a target. Right? And so whether it's somebody she knew or didn't know. But so, she was a pretty average teenage girl. She just wanted to like make friends, do well in school, fit in. And apparently one night, Brianna went to a party where another girl was reportedly jealous

of the way Brianna had spoken to her boyfriend. Oh. And classic high school stuff, right? So either way, Brianna was like, I'm leaving. She went outside to avoid an argument. She sat in her boyfriend's truck, but the girl followed her outside, drunk and pissed off. Uh-oh.

And when Brianna rolled down the window to talk to her, this girl grabbed Brianna and punched her repeatedly in the face. And it is bad. She can cussed Brianna. Oh my God. Broke her nose. She had to be hospitalized.

If you see the photo, she has like black eyes. I mean, she was beaten up by this girl. Jesus. At the time her parents were like, why didn't you fight back? Because Brianna was actually trained in martial arts. She was very, very good at self-defense. And she told them when they asked her

why you didn't fight back, she said she was afraid if she fought back, people would be mad at her and wouldn't like her anymore. Oh, the people pleaser effect. Yeah. Yeah. Poor girl. So by the time Brianna was 17, her loneliness felt unbearable. And she decided to move off of her parents farm to a friend's house so she could go to a different high school, which was her friend's high school. Okay. Her parents were not thrilled about this, but they were like, okay, you know, she's so unhappy. And she's very strong. Yeah, she's very strong willed. Like not thrilled about this, but they were like, okay, you know, she's so unhappy and she's very strong. Yeah, she's very strong willed. Like if we fight this, it's just gonna go bad.

So they hoped like, okay, maybe she's this will help her get back to on her feet. But unfortunately did not. Life got pretty unstable. She dropped out of high school. She started bouncing around between different friends houses. Sometimes she would stay with a boyfriend if she was dating someone. And things kind of remained difficult until February of 2004. And that's when she moved in with her childhood friend, Jillian Stout. And that's when she enrolled in that high school equivalency program, so that GED program to earn her diploma. Because that was a really important thing for her. She got two jobs. One was at the Black Lantern Inn as a dishwasher and one was at a restaurant.

And things stabilized slowly, but surely for Brianna. She worked really hard to try to get the life she wanted. And friends said she dreamed, like I said, of moving to New York City, maybe Toronto, maybe Montreal. She just wanted something bigger and better. And- An adventure. An adventure, yes. And she wanted to just like break out of her small town.

So when she took her final high school equivalency exam that same day that her mom took her out for breakfast, March 19th, it was basically this like new start. She had like the whole world at her fingertips. Her mom picked her up at noon. They went shopping to celebrate. Her mom said she loved shopping because everything looked good on her.

I was like, yeah, well. You go girl. That must be nice. I've never, I've never had, that feels like maybe an original experience. Yeah, that sounds delightful, really. Good for you though. Yeah.

So while they were in line to check out, Brianna looked out the window of the store and said, oh no, okay, I'll be right back, Mom, and left. So Kelly was like, all right, and Brianna left. But when she didn't return, Kelly left the store and met Brianna in the parking lot. And it was like Brianna's entire mood had shifted. Like she had gotten some shocking news or like her mom just didn't know.

She seemed shaken, she seemed anxious. She said she just wanted to get home now and get ready for work. So her mom was like, ooh, okay. And a lot of people were pissed off that her mom didn't ask, like didn't pry, like what happened, what's wrong. I do-

In hindsight, I could see why. Yeah, and I do find it a little odd you wouldn't say like, hey, what's the matter, like what happened, what's wrong. In hindsight, I could see why. Yeah, and I do find it a little odd you wouldn't say like, hey, what's the matter? But I mean, maybe she did. Maybe her daughter was like nothing, you know? And it's like, what do you say to a 19 year old? You can't like force them to talk to you. And it sounds like she's a mom who's like trying to like,

give her space or autonomy. It's like, all right, that's, if you're fine, you're fine, I guess. And she just, I mean, she's clearly making good choices. She's like coming back into her own. You know, I don't I don't think it's necessarily as sinister as everyone just screams at this mother. It's like, well, OK, she was trying not to pry, you know,

and she's trying to be a fucking nice mom, be respectful. And her daughter's an adult, you know, so it's like her daughter doesn't have to tell her anything. And also, like to this day, if my mom saw me upset and then what's wrong, I'd be like, nothing! Nothing, right. I'd be like, no, you're business. Like I would probably wouldn't tell her if it like didn't matter,

if I didn't want to like open up a can of worms or something. I feel like what I would say is like, hey, are you okay? And they'd be like, yeah. And it's like, okay, well then that's that. There's no more questions, you know? Yeah. It's just like, I feel like I have a hard time blaming anyone, especially like you said, with hindsight.

Anyway, so she didn't want to pry. So she kind of just let her be and dropped her off at home at 3.30. Brianna wrote a note to her roommate, Jillian. That was the childhood friend saying she'd be home late after her shift tonight at the Black Lantern Inn. And she went to work. It was a busy night and by the time the kitchen was clean and everyone clocked out just before 11 30, Brianna was absolutely exhausted. Her co-workers were hanging

out but she said I have to go to my other job early in the morning so I'm gonna go home and I'm not gonna hang out I'm gonna go to bed. So they watched her walk through the parking lot, get in her car and drive away alone. So that was Friday night that she had done that shift. She had a shift early the next morning, Saturday morning, so she went home to go to bed. So they watched her leave. Now Sunday rolls around and Jillian, she had actually been out for the weekend. She was visiting friends or family out of town. So she comes back on Sunday and she notices that note that had been left on Friday was still there

and it hadn't been moved or touched. And she thought that was a little odd. And Brianna wasn't in the house, but Jillian said, okay, well, maybe she just stayed with her parents over the weekend. So she wasn't really worried until Tuesday, March 23rd, when Brianna still was not home. And keep in mind, the car was found on the 20th.

This is three days that they could have contacted the family and said, we found the car. Yeah. Three days. Yeah, I'm pissed for them. Me too. So Jillian calls Kelly and she asks if Brianna's there at the farm and Kelly says, no, she should be with you at home.

And so they hang up and Kelly starts calling around, just calling Brianna's friends, boyfriends, nobody has seen her in a couple of days. So Kelly speaks to Brianna's employers and basically everyone figured out that no one had seen Brianna since Friday night after her shift. So all day Saturday where she was supposed to have that shift and all that other stuff, her roommate was out of town. Nobody knew she was missing, but she hadn't been seen since Friday night. Wow. And sorry, remind me, how many days before was the,

they go to the store and she goes, Oh shit. And she. So that was on Friday. That was the same day. That was the morning. That was basically the last day she'd ever been seen. God, that's heartbreaking. Okay. Yeah. And so her mom dropped her off and basically that was her mom's last experience with her. Basically regretting not asking more questions about why she was upset after that shopping.

I mean, nobody can fault this mom the way that she faults herself. Exactly, because people go, I mean, ballistic. Like people are like to the point of violence, cruel to this woman. It's like, she didn't kill her daughter. Jesus. Like she has played that thought over and over in her head without you having to fucking tell her.

Exactly. Like you said, no one's going to be as mean to her as she probably is to herself about that, or probably has the capacity to. Hopefully she doesn't, hopefully she's healed and not doing that. But it has the capacity to, hopefully she doesn't, hopefully she's healed and not doing that. But it's just like, give it a rest, people. Like as if you would do everything right, not knowing that disaster was about to strike.

So anyway, Kelly spoke to Brianna's employer. She basically realized nobody'd seen her since Friday. And by now that was five days ago. So five days have passed before anyone even realized. And it could have been one night. Like they could have touch base, but it's again, hindsight. So Kelly, her mom called her husband, Bruce, and he was in New York on business,

but he just jumped in his car. He drove overnight straight home. And her mom reported Brianna missing to the police. They notified all local officers because Brianna is 17, she's a minor, and so all local officers are notified. So Kelly tried to think of where Brianna might go if she left without telling anyone and one of the people she thought about was her aunt Tammy. Brianna was very close with her aunt Tammy Fisher in Pittsburgh. So she called Tammy and when Tammy didn't pick up, Kelly left a message to call right away

if Brianna showed up at her door. So Tammy gets home and basically gets a voicemail, like, if you see Brianna at your door, Call me immediately. Bring her inside and call me immediately. And Tammy's like, what the hell is going on, you know? Yeah. So Brianna's friend, Shaw Shawna didn't believe Brianna

would leave without telling anyone. And she said in an interview, she had a big heart. She would never do that to anybody. Like she would never in that regard, like leave town and just not tell her mom and leave her mom to be terrified. You know what I mean? So the next thing Kelly and Bruce did was trace Brianna's steps back.

So they thought of the last place Brianna had been seen, and they went to the Black Lantern Inn to kind of look around. And this was extremely painful because just like another one of those weird hindsight-as-2020 moments, the night that Friday that Brianna was at work, her dad suggested to her mom, hey, why don't we just stop inside and say hi and see how her job is going? And her mom said, oh gosh, I don't wanna embarrass her. She's gonna be so mad if we like march in there and like,

oh now- Another thing that she kicks herself for. Yes, and now that her boss is gonna be like, oh, now her parents are involved, you know, cause she's 17 and like she wants to be independent. And so her mom was like, I don't know. I don't want to like push it. So they kept their hands off.

And of course, after that, all they wish is that they had just overridden that concern and gone in. That you wouldn't know. And see her one more time. Yeah, you would have no clue. And like, if nothing had happened and you did go in, maybe she would have been pissed off and you would have started a fight and who knows?

It's hard to say that that was, it's just an unfortunate thing. It's unfortunate. It's just all the what ifs. It's a what if, yes. And so they kept driving and of course, now they wish they'd stopped. So they went to the state police on March 25th

and that was six days since Brianna had last been seen. And that's when they found out that five days ago, Brianna's car had been discovered in a field and their hearts just sank. So despite this notice going out about Brianna being a missing minor and the state police reporting the vehicle as belonging to Brianna, law enforcement just hadn't even made that connection yet. It wasn't until they asked what kind of car she drove that police were like, oh wait.

Hang on, why does that ring a bell? Why are two people named Brianna Maitland? So Brianna's brother was able to locate the car where it had gotten towed, which was an auto shop. And her dad, Bruce, used a crowbar to pry open the trunk. Now imagine in this moment, they were worried she could be in there. So she could be in there, yeah.

I can't imagine being a dad thinking, I don't even wanna fucking open this, but I have to. And it's like your son offers, and it's like, well, no, I don't want her brother to do it. I mean, somebody has to do it. That's just awful.

So of course he pries it open. There must be like relief and concern when you open it, and she's not in there. They only found some boxes of her childhood keepsakes along with some important belongings that Brianna was storing for a friend. So they get the car back and a search effort is launched. Volunteers are called, local businesses put up flyers.

Meanwhile, Tammy's in Pittsburgh and she's just gotten this voicemail but she has no clue what's going on. Which- No one's answering their phone unless it's like the police right now. You're exactly, that's exactly what happened. She said, I keep calling the line, just keeps ringing.

Like no one's picking up. I am getting more and more concerned. She says she turns on the TV and Brianna's face is on the local news. And she goes, holy shit. So she, I just got chills. She gets in her car and she just drives to Vermont without thinking or stopping. And so everyone's now on the ground. They are looking, but weeks pass. There are no leads. There's a foundation from 1994 called the Class Kids Foundation, and Polly Kloss was the reason

that this organization had begun. So volunteers from Kloss Kids were there. They organized a volunteer search effort to scour an entire five mile radius surrounding the abandoned house where her car was found, but canines didn't find anything. Search teams didn't find anything, but the publicity did help.

It turns out multiple people saw Brianna's car at the abandoned house the night she disappeared. Not only that, some people had taken pictures because they just thought it was such a strange thing to stumble upon. Sure. So as for the sightings themselves, I'll start with this one guy who drove by it

between 11.30 p.m. and 12.30 a.m. So as for the sightings themselves, I'll start with this one guy who drove by it between 11.30 PM and 12.30 AM. And remember she left work around 11.30. So within an hour of her leaving, this guy spotted it. Wow. He noted that the headlights were on, which is why it was like strange, but he didn't see.

An eerie as shit probably. Right with the back of it inside a barn and abandoned barn. I mean Jesus Christ I will say as a teenager. I think I that would have been like oh our time to go explore Let's figure out what's going on absolutely and in 2004 my space era of course You're gonna take pictures of everything because you think it's like a cool Artsy like wouldn't even occur to me like this is a fucking tragedy. The crime scene potentially, yeah. I would literally have just been like, oh my God, let's go adventure. I'd be such a piece of shit.

I mean, it's children. We're fucking, we were kids. We didn't know. But I mean, yes, it was ignorant. But yes, I agree. I would have been like, this is so cool. I mean, like, wow, let's take a picture in front of this for an artsy pic. Wait till my crush sees this.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's like the. Wait till my crush sees this. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it's like the police need your photographs immediately. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't end up being any teens. So there's that. But this guy saw it. So they have this guy placing it there between 10 and 60 minutes after Brianna left work and the headlights are on. And he did not see anyone in or around the vehicle.

Then we have another person between midnight and 1230 a driver noticed the vehicle and reported that one of the turn signals was blinking Oh, so do we know if it was blinking? No, I think it was just one person drove by said Oh, it looks like the lights are on somebody else maybe slowed down and said oh, I see a turn signal You know, maybe they just didn't see it and same thing, nobody around. He said it could have been one turn signal or maybe even the hazards, he wasn't sure. At 4 a.m., Brianna's ex-boyfriend was driving by

on his way home from a party and was like, is that my ex-girlfriend's car? So he pulled over and he looked around but didn't see anything, so he left thinking like, okay, she must've just gotten wasted or something and left the car here. So later that morning, two more people passed by the scene and these people took photos

because it was just such a strange sight and it was morning. Thank God someone did. I agree. But also, I will say in 2004, if you didn't have a literal camera with you, I don't think you could take pictures. So it's not-

Or just like one of those really grainy old like mobile phones, but yeah. You'd need like an actual digital camera or something. Yeah. And one of the photographs actually caught stuff that they didn't know because it had been five days previously no one had taken photos when the car was found. So when you looked at some, one of these photographs,

you could see stuff on the ground that had fallen out of the car. Oh shit. Yes. And so now they're seeing loose change, a water bottle and jewelry on the side of the car, on the ground. And so it sort of indicates somebody climbed out of the car

or there was some frenzy, something happened where things got dropped and nobody picked them back up. Maybe they climbed out of the car or there was some frenzy. Something happened where things got dropped and nobody picked them back up. And it indicates that someone came by, saw the car and took those items or maybe animals? That could be. That could be.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I assume so, you're right, because I imagine they would have by then gone to the farmhouse and seen her jewelry if it was still there, you know, or whatever it was. It feels like, which that's eerier that someone saw there was this fucking crisis and stole all the stuff and then didn't report what they'd seen. Well, I mean, if it's just an abandoned car and there's just like a necklace on the ground, I think my brain wouldn't be like, oh, I'm calling them, you know, especially if it's just like a 17 year old girl's necklace, like nothing fancy or just like a bracelet. I don't know.

I don't think it would even occur to me that I would have to, nowadays probably, but maybe not then. Or it could just be a crow who like shiny things and just took coins. Or it's a raven and he brought them to a friend. Exactly, it could be, could be. So based on these witness report timelines,

Brianna's car was abandoned less than an hour before she, or after she left work. So investigators started looking at people in Brianna's life. The incident where she had gotten beaten up by that girl at the party was only three weeks earlier. So that was still like pretty fresh on everyone's mind. After the attack, her friend Shauna actually convinced Brianna to report it to the police,

but Brianna was really worried it would make things worse. But she did go to the police, and her assailant, whose name was Keely LaCrosse, was subpoenaed for questioning about the assault. And when Shauna apparently asked Keely about the assault charges after Brianna went missing, Keely apparently said smugly, well, nothing's gonna be happening

because Bri's not around right now. Which I feel like they thought was so sinister, but I'm like, it's also another teenage girl who probably just thinks you're running away or like. That really is the theme of today's episode. I know, you're so right. They were 16, but like that's kind of what's going on here. It's like, can we not put a little perspective on this?

You know, like. It's like, did everyone just magically forget what it was like to be a teenager? I guess so, because it just feels like people aren't connecting the dots in some ways. Because honestly, if a teenager... Here's my thought. If I were a cop today and a teenager said something, like, where they were trying to look tough, I know they didn't do it.

Yeah, it's sort of like, you wouldn't say it if you killed her Well, I mean, maybe you would because I don't know but you're right Like I just feel like they're everything from the grain of salt, especially if you're talking to teenage frenemies, right? Like right she talked to my boyfriend. I'm also like how and Maybe maybe I have forgotten a little about what it's like to be a teenager. But I guess Maybe maybe I have forgotten a little about what it's like to be a teenager, but I guess How intensely was Brianna flirting with your guy for you to first of all ever beat the shit out of her that badly once But then to like have a three week like beef afterwards. Well, well she pressed charges So suddenly there's a trial and so it's like wow. Well, you're I mean she beat the shit out of her

so it's like yeah now there's this trial and now she's being subpoenaed. And when Brianna goes missing, it's like, well, now you don't have to, now the charges are gonna be dropped, you know? So it is convenient, right? But Keely, of course, you know, because, well, not of course, I suppose, but I'll tell you now that she was ruled out

as a suspect in Brianna's disappearance. And Brianna's family was, as we've probably already kind of hinted at, they were frustrated with the investigation. One leading investigator in 2004 said, we have continued to be skeptical that this could be a case involving foul play. In other words, they literally think she still just ran away with uncashed paychecks in her car, left the lights on, didn't bring the car with her. Hmm.

I don't agree. She also left her migraine medication, which she brought everywhere, and other things like the uncashed paychecks. Why on earth would a teenager leave money just sitting in their car? Why would they leave their car? Just none of it makes sense.

No. All her important personal belongings in the trunk, her friend stuff, I mean, it's just too weird. So Bruce, her dad took matters into his own hands at this point. He went to the Black Lantern Inn and questioned Brianna's coworkers himself, trying to understand what might have happened

the night she vanished. And they told him Brianna seemed pretty normal. She was in a good mood. Nothing appeared off to them. The Maitlands put their phone number out there for calls and they received tips from all over the country. Of course, a lot of them were useless and like happens every time, Some of them were just cruel.

People told Kelly Brianna was tied up to a tree in the woods. People said she'd been thrown into a river, dismembered and fed to pigs. People are just sick. Like they will just take any chance to just fuck with someone. It's horrible.

It's evil. It's evil. A police officer gave a sworn statement that a local woman told him Brianna was murdered and dismembered by men Brianna knew who were both known drug dealers in the area. But it was just one woman's story. And even though the officer swore, it was just rumors.

It's only speculation. There was no evidence, no actual proof of where she could be or of these two men's involvement. So there were rumors flying, of course, that she had some like troubled life, this double life, you know, some secrets. She did sometimes go to parties where people use substances like cocaine, marijuana.

She had tried a few drugs, but very casually, she said she, you know, her friend said, no, she was not an active drug user. Like maybe every now and then she would smoke pot with friends or she had tried crack cocaine at one point, but only once and then hadn't done it again. So just even police said, like, as far as we're concerned, drugs didn't, she wasn't strung out on drugs. She didn't have a drug problem, you know. Maybe the person that did this, because I believe, like had,

she maybe met that person during that one experience, maybe, but I don't think she was on drugs. Like there might be a connection in terms of how they know each other. Right, exactly. But there's no, nobody seemed to indicate that Brianna was struggling with substance use. I mean, contrary was true.

She was working two jobs and she was earning her diploma. She had to be pretty clear minded. Yeah, like she even left work when everyone was hanging out at 1130, because she was like, I have to get some sleep. You know, she was taking her life seriously. And basically, investigators said any involvement with drugs was just conjecture and they didn't think that that really held much weight.

But of course they kept looking into tips just in case. So one anonymous caller reported that Brianna was being held against her will by a drug ring. And they indicated this farmhouse about 11 miles from where Brianna was last seen. And when they raided this farmhouse, they recovered marijuana, cocaine, and at least one gun. And when they interviewed the occupants, they claimed to know Brianna, but they denied knowing where she was.

Gillian did know one of the men who lived there because Brianna had brought him over several weeks before she disappeared. And other people had also seen Brianna with this group at parties, but there was no evidence that they were involved in the disappearance, just that they had ties to each other. So fixated on the drug use tracks, someone involved in the case told reporters that Brianna owed money for drugs. And a newspaper ran with it, and the headline read, Police, Missing Teen Has Drug Debt.

Oh my God. There was not a single piece of evidence for this claim whatsoever aside from rumor. And Kelly, her mom, later said, I don't portray my daughter as an angel. I think she was trying to get her life on track. I think she went to a couple of parties, but to come out like this

was kind of a way to blame the victim. And I totally agree. It's like saying she disappeared. She has drug debt. First of all, who cares? And also, no, I also that's bad journalism. I don't. I also just don't buy it. Like I just I mean, it wasn't who am I to fucking say? Yeah. Okay. Well, it simply wasn't true. So there's outrage, real outrage from family, friends, other people who supported the family. And the newspaper actually published a retraction. The police apologized. Yeah, but you can't, you can't undo that.

No, you can't unring a bell. It's like hurtful. And interestingly enough, a family whose daughter was also missing contacted the Maitland suspecting that maybe the cases were related. This was a case that I covered in episode eight, which also has the honor of being our first fight, which was when you were mad at me about going to the Queen Mary, because apparently I said I would go with you

and then I forgot and then I went with my mom. We obviously resolved that, I think we're fine. Yeah, fix that eventually. But Maura Murray, she disappeared. She was 21 years old. She had disappeared just one month before Brianna in New Hampshire. So pretty close by.

And so that her Maura Murray's family reached out and said like, maybe our cases are linked. Like Brianna, Maura was in a car accident when she vanished. Her car was found, she was not. However, a passing motorist stopped to assist Maura and spoke with her before reporting the accident and before Maura vanished. So it was slightly different.

She had been seen outside her vehicle. Okay. Maura was unharmed, but by the time authorities arrived, she was gone and her car was left there. The cases were eerily similar, but investigators ultimately decided that they were unrelated. Maura remains missing today. Unfortunately, I hate that I have to say that after covering it in episode 8. It's just like a very sobering fact. Two years passed and in 2006 someone reported seeing a woman who looked like Brianna playing blackjack at a casino in New Jersey. So Brianna's family reviewed the video and her brother

immediately said it wasn't her but her mom thought it might be. So the media published the video hoping the woman in the video could come forward and see if it was Brianna but no one responded. So the Maitlands had to decide if this was worth pursuing or not. So Kelly agonized because she was like, I haven't seen my daughter in two years. Like maybe she's grown or cut her hair. Like maybe I'd. Or maybe she's trying to hide from whoever. Something. Or even like, I think about Elizabeth Smart, who they were disguising her in

public. Right. Like abducted. And I think the other part of it is that like, she wants it to be her daughter, but she also doesn't wanna waste a lead, like a resource if it's not her and she's just having wishful thinking. So she really has to say like, is this an avenue I wanna proceed down?

Is it worth it? Because then if you say no, part of you is gonna think like, I should have done this. I should have checked. Exactly, exactly. Oh my God, what a torture. So she's agonizing. And so she doesn't know what to do, but editors are actually able to enhance,

you know how much I love when they say that. I love when they do it, especially in the 90s and everything turns out high definition. It's amazing. And Elliot Stabler is like somehow not impressed. It's amazing how they zoom in and it gets sharper every time. And I'm like, that's not how pixels work.

Like the further you zoom in, the not clear. Especially when they zoom in from space. That's my favorite. Yeah, they're like in hands. Let me zoom in on this blade of grass from Mars. Oh my God, I can see every microbe on it. It's as if somebody CGI'd it into the screen. Yeah. So apparently editors were able to enhance

this particular footage, which was really great and also tragic because Kelly could see when Brianna turned her head a certain way that this was not Brianna just to look alike. Oh God. It's like, and it just like with her dad opening up the trunk, it's like, do you want this to be her or not?

And also like disappointment. Yeah. It must be the most conflicting feeling, you know? Like you want this to be her or not? It's like relief and also disappointment. Yeah, it must be the most conflicting feeling, you know? Like you wanna get answers, but you don't want specific answers. Also, how many times can you be kicked when you're down? How much defeat can you take? Eventually, it's just crazy making to be like,

where the fuck is she? It must just be so gutting, like you don't even know what to do. So yeah, basically what you said said there back to square one. So in 2016 now we're fast-forwarding about 12 years, investigators announced that they had recovered DNA from items recovered in and around Brianna's vehicle. Okay. So in 2022, now that was six years after that, police announced that the DNA matched one of 11 individuals

they had spoken to throughout the investigation. However, they said the DNA is not enough to make that individual a suspect. And they won't comment on any other evidence collected because it's an active ongoing investigation. Oh, okay. So as of March of 2024, and just for context right now folks, as we record, it's January 2025. In March of 2024, which was 20 years since Brianna was last seen, the FBI offered up a $40,000 reward for information leading to Brianna. Oh my god.

And her father believes she's no longer living, but of course still wants answers. Yeah, I hope so. And he said, I don't think she's still out there walking around, but for as long as I'm alive, I'll do everything to find her. I mean, it just sounds like these, it's just, their whole lives get taken over by this loss.

No, I mean, you never get to just have a happy, you just feel like a fully fulfilling. You just can't. Yeah. It's like your world's just on a totally different axis. I can't. It's totally different access. You just like I sounds terrible. I am. Yeah. And even if it's like, I just want like, I just want to know, like

good or bad, just an answer to put her to rest, you know, and like to be able to rest yourself. Do they have any personal guesses on what happened? Yeah, actually, many people still suspect that Brianna was murdered by one of her friends she used to party with. Even, like you said, she maybe was not a regular drug user, but occasionally and recreationally,

and the people she hung out with, you know, were varying levels of drug users, substance users. And so who knows if somebody took something or she got mixed up in the wrong dealing. Like, who knows? I mean, people have been murdered for much less. Maybe somebody just wanted to hurt her or maybe they had a gun

and that's why she didn't fight back, you never know. But basically people suspect that she was murdered by at least her, you know, the run the most, the primary theory is that somebody she knew or perhaps an ex, someone personal had murdered her that night. Yeah. I do. We think that like her, like the car being backed into a wall, do we think like the guy was in the backseat and she was trying to like, you know, I don't know, get rid of him or something or, you know,

it could have been that it could have been like, maybe she was trying to turn around and accidentally back the car. And someone said, oh, don't worry, I'll give you a ride. Like, but then also, like she wouldn't have left the lights on in the car. I think that I think someone was hiding in her car or car jacked her or something. And I think she was trying to either intentionally throw the car, like if he was like hiding in the back or something, I think she was trying to either back the car up and hit, like not jostle him.

Or I think that if someone car jacked her and was sitting in the passenger seat and holding a gun to her, I think there was like a like a frenzy over like who had control of the wheel and they're kicking the wheel. Yeah, something happened where it accidentally went and then he just ends it up thinking, okay. Well now we don't have a car I have to drag you away. I think something... How fucking terrifying. I think there was... Because you're right. I mean, to leave the car with lights on, signals blinking, crash into a building... Something bad happened in the car. ...stuff on the ground and her nowhere to be seen,

like, that's not... Something happened in the car. I'm surprised that, like, the police didn't, like, look for more evidence in the car, like, swab it, like, from, like, any... Well, that's what happened, is they got it towed and then it was too late late because they didn't check. I mean, they have stuff that they check for DNA and they have found some DNA.

But at the time it was like they could have taken pictures. They could have looked much more closely at the crash itself. I think I mean, like, I'm more surprised that there wasn't like a single hair sample or something of someone else in the car. Like I don't know. I mean, I guess after enough time, it says that they have DNA from recovery in the car like uh I don't know I mean I guess I mean we don't know because it says that they have DNA from recovery in the vehicle so we don't know if that's a hair we don't know if that's just someone's not in the system yet or something well no it says that they have hair or

sorry not hair they have DNA matching one of the 11 people they spoke with but just because they have their DNA it doesn't mean they're suspect because maybe they wrote in the backseat one time on the way to work. Maybe they were an ex and of course she was wearing their sweatshirt. You know, it's like, even though they know whose DNA it is, they have not announced it, presumably because they're cleared in some way. Well, I don't think so. I think they're actively probably certain. They're saying, you know, this person's not a suspect yet, but we're not going to say

anything because it's an active investigation. they're saying, you know, this person's not a suspect yet, but we're not gonna say anything because it's an active investigation. So maybe they have further to test. I mean, I'm hoping, you know, these things move so slow, but I'm hoping that if in March they were, you know, still actively pursuing this, that maybe we'll get some answers. And her dad, for what it's worth, says,

I was always concerned about some of her relationships, and those were some of the first things that police looked into. I also spoke with some of those people myself. In the end, those people that I had initially thought might have had something to do with, I no longer believe that. So even he's like, the people that were top of the list

just don't make sense to me, and who would know better, right? I think it was a freak accident I mean I also like I'm aware who am I to fucking have an opinion on this but if I were to like make up a theory mm-hmm my first thought would be it was some sort of like carjacking or she picked up a hitchhiker in the middle of the woods oh god yeah and she was just trying to be nice but then they they got into some sort of fight in the car or struggle. It wouldn't be the first time she's picked up a hitchhiker, right? Like,

yeah, I don't know. Or maybe she, maybe it was someone she even recognized and she was like, Oh, get in the car. I'll, I'll. Yeah. Maybe someone needed a ride or something. You know, who knows? I don't. And then they carjacked her or. It doesn't seem like there was a struggle until Leaving the car right so I I think it was Either she was doing something kind or it seemed like it was a friend of a friend or maybe it was someone from like that Random honestly, maybe it was someone from a random

One time she was doing drugs and she didn't know that he was High as a kite in that moment and decided to like maybe he offered her drugs. she didn't know that he was high as a kite in that moment and decided to like, maybe he offered her drugs. She didn't want to take them. Maybe somebody came onto her and she said, no, you know, who knows? Like, I mean, again, one of the least crazy theories, right? Like what people will do, how people harm each other. It's just, it's just heartbreaking that that there's so many possibilities and we just don't know what it is. And her family doesn't know what it is. And so I have a couple more bullets left.

Basically in a recent statement, the director of the Vermont State Police said, "'We remain as dedicated to this case now "'as we were when Brianna disappeared. "'This is not a cold case, it is an unsolved one.'" So Brianna's family created a Facebook page to uphold the memory of Brianna and draw continued attention to her case.

And they hope that someday someone will maybe report something that seems innocuous, but breaks open the case. And they can finally bring Bri home, whether that be alive or past and in spirit or in real life and at least get some closure. So that is the story of Breonna Maitland. And when Saoirse suggested this, I was like, holy shit, because I thought like maybe there'd been some break

and that's why it was like, but no, alas. I mean, there has been a break, this DNA, but it's been almost what, 10 years, nine years since that. So things just take so long, you know? And it's like, I wish I could have a Google alert for every case I wanna keep up with, but it's like, I don't even know how I would do that. Man, well, yeah, I hope that,

I don't think there's a way that her parents could ever have full closure, or her brother, but I hope they're okay. I know, I know. Me too. Hopefully it's a story you will give us an update on one day and it would be. That would be. And Maura Murray, man, I would really like to. I would like to see those families get some closure. I would. Some answers.

Oh, well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to Heartbreak, but Intrigue. And love it. If you for some reason like to hear us talking and you'd like to hear us talk more, you can head on over to our Yappy Hour. You could also see us talk live if you want to go buy tickets for our live show. That feels like a weird plug. So close to such a sad story. But if you want us in your ear holes,

there are other places you can find us beyond this episode. And as of right now, you can probably hit JD Vance's followers, and we're probably on there again, even though I've unfollowed like three times. So, yeah, no, we can. You can follow us at WWD podcast for as long as we're on any platform I don't know anymore. What is happening in the world? You can find us on tik-tok if you'd like to hear Some weird if you want to canny valley uncanny valley versions of us um And yeah, we'll see you over yuppie hour. Yeah, see you there

And oh, oh wait, sorry. I want to add for yuppie hour. I have a brand new victorian photographs I bought from an estate sale, so I'll be showing those. So if you'd like a show and tell as your palate cleanser from these stories, you can head over there. And that's why we drink.