And That's Why We Drink - E419 The Salty Spitoon Sauna and the Bookworm Protocol

Episode Date: February 16, 2025

It’s Episode 419 and we wanna know how tough are ya? This week Em takes us back to Australia for their most popular poltergeist story, the Humpty Doo Poltergeist. Then Christine covers the not-so cold case of Helene Pruszynski from Colorado. And lookout for random men bringing Fun Little Treats to your door! …and that’s why we drink! For a list of resources or ways to help those affected by the fires in Los Angeles visit: https://bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp ! The Pour Decisions Tour is back on the road! Like a Lady in White, we’ll be popping up everywhere - from Seattle to Boston. Tickets are going fast so get yours today at https://www.andthatswhywedrink.com/live ! ______________________ Stop putting off those doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com/DRINK to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Let Audible help you reach the goals you set for yourself. Start listening today when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at Audible.com/DRINK. Listeners of And That's Why We Drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting FayNutrition.com/DRINK. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at MINTMOBILE.com/atwwd. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code DRINK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. That was a beautiful little clap. That was a good one, wasn't it? Sometimes I feel like our fairies, like their wings touch each other by accident. Oh, like a butterfly kiss. Yeah. That's what happens in my brain every time we clap at the exact same time. That's so romantic. What was that?

Jesus. Is that your stupid laugh? Yeah, I know. It's... Jesus. Is that your stupid laugh? Yeah, I know. It's it was it was your phone filming us? My phone was just no, it like was playing an old episode. Oh, that's cute. See, that's even better than when the fairies touch their wings. That's when they realize they're getting kiss. Everybody had to

hear double of us including ourselves. Like that's a true nightmare, geez. Wow, what a doozy. Anyway, that was alarming. I'm so sorry for the interruption of myself, I guess, with my own voice. I do like when we double whammy ambush people. That's fun. Yeah, I mean, I guess I like it. It feels like a social experiment of some sort.

I don't like when other people ambush me with my own voice though. Because sometimes I will like be at my mom's house or Alison's cooking dinner and all of a sudden I hear myself and I'm like, what's going on? And to some people it might sound like, obviously other people who are hearing this might think, oh, obviously it's your podcast. But I always get nervous when you hear your own voice,

you don't think, oh, podcast first. You think like someone's re-listening to like an old voice message or like a voicemail or something. I don't know. In my own head, that's where I go. And I'm like, why is someone replaying that when I'm in the house? Oh, wow. So you think you have a spy on your case? I think that everyone's being a little nosy. I just think Blaze is listening to my podcast. That's lovely.

But I guess you have darker motives in mind. I'm just always a little paranoid, I guess. But I know if when I hear Allison, it took a long time. Now I know she's listening to a podcast. But when I first hear my own voice, I just go like, what the hell's... Yeah, it's when it's on your partner. Yeah, it is weird. It is weird. Because it's like... It's like, are you watching a video of us? Like, I don't know what's going on. Or if your voice is playing, I'm like, why are you talking to Em? Yeah, I have heard your voice when Allison's cooking and I thought that she was on the phone with you. So I, I never know what to expect.

Maybe she was replaying old spy tapes. I don't know. I know. Well, you know, someone ought to know that my Chinese spy is gone. But What's your Chinese spy? Oh, Christine. It's a, it's just brain rot speak from TikTok. That's what I figured, okay. So it's like basically your NSA agent. Yes. Okay, got it. Although as we're talking- Mine's not gone.

I can tell you that much. As we're talking about my NSA agent, a random man just knocked on my door because he is bringing me drinks. So- Yeah, well, when you say a random, like you told me before we recorded, oh, Postmates is coming. And then when you're on the podcast, you're like,

oh, a random man is here, hold on, let me get the door. I'm like, do you told me before we recorded, oh, Postmates is coming. And then when you're on the podcast, you're like, oh, a random man is here. Hold on, let me get the door. I'm like, do you realize now why it's framed so alarmingly to the public, right? Like, Yes. Okay. Just, it's not a random, I mean, it's a random,

I assume it's a random person. It sure is a random man. Okay. So, but with intention to be there. But with goodies, with things to lure me out of my home. With fun little treats. Oh, okay. So the candy van has arrived. Em's about to go get it.

Do you need to go get it? Can I go get it for a second? Please, and I'll make sure that you come back safe. Okay, yeah, just make sure I come back at all. I don't care about safe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess it's time I put out the call once again. This is the third knock in a row that M has answered. Self-described random man at the door. With fun little truths. Last night I had a bit of a true crime experience. Oh, God. Of course, here we go. Oh, no.

I had a bit of a true crime experience last night because it was middle of the night and I was doing my notes per usual and uh I got some Mickey D's. Per usual. Per usual and for some reason, I mean it was dark out I don't know what was going on, but I had a weird gut feeling where I was like What? Which like it ended up not it ended up being me being paranoid it was not anything true crime you heard your own voice coming from the kitchen in my mind i like i got like i got all

in my head i think because i was watching something scary and i was like don't don't open the door when the food gets here and i like started freaking myself out that i was like someone's waiting outside me waiting for me to get my food and they're gonna jump out and get me when I do that. Well, what the fuck happened? I waited five minutes and then I just bristled. Maybe they're what? Bristled all. You're like, I can't let the dumplings get too cold.

Oh my God. Anyway, so I had a little moment like that last night and I was like, that was kind of crazy. And I'm glad you're here to tell the tale and I'm glad you waited five minutes. I don't know. But today, if things went sideways, you would know that it was because I snuck out to get my food in the middle of the night. And that would, I mean, that would make sense to everybody. Yeah, you are like a little raccoon scavenging.

We saw that coming for M. Yeah. One door dash too many. One fun little treat too many. One had a booby trap set. Eventually, the treats are too many. One fun little treat too many. Just one had a booby trap set. Eventually the treats are too fun. So anyway. Must come to an end. Wait, is that why you drink?

Because of your crime experience? You know, I guess today that's why I drink. Oh, I will tell you, if anyone listened to our Yappy Hour, I think last week or two weeks ago, Christine suggested a laundry service to me. They came back yesterday. My clothes are lovely Hey So thank you for that

so I guess I drink because you gave me one last task to do which is wonderful and I Kind of already said this too, but I have been collecting more Pokemon cards But yes last week or two weeks ago, I bought them and now they're all coming in So now you heard all the knocks when you answered the door at all the random men with Pokemon cards. It's true, it's true. So anyway-

I mean, it sounds like how an eight-year-old gets kidnapped, a man with Pokemon cards. Remember, and you said he had a suit on. You're like, oh, a man with Pokemon cards and treats for me. It's like, what the fuck, Em? You're an eight-year-old boy. I, and I've always said that.

And you've always said that. And you've always been that. That's so true. Yeah. So I guess I drink for those reasons. And since I've been home, I've actually gotten to see friends, which is lovely. It's been very refreshing. You're back on your home turf now.

Back on my A game, yeah. Grounded. I love it. Anyway, that's why I drink. Why do you drink, Christine? Okay. Okay. I had a reason and this is the this is the this is the reason I was going to bring okay okay watch this. Oh wait oh you got it keep it up you can do it. I think what you were trying to

say is you got a new laptop which gives you capabilities to do the finger thing. Oh Wait mine isn't going either. They changed the settings. Oh, no you just You just have to commit you said it commit to the bed. I've committed so many times Home boobier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you've got this. We're already But the fingers are busy it's so You've got this we're already Okay that does track that they only let me do the sad one and Thumbs down so I tried thumbs up many times didn't work But thumbs down seems at least your laptop has like some fucking like ability to read the room. Mine just is so flipping with her emotions. You're just like frenetic. I just like overdoing it. I wonder why. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was my original

reason I drank because I was just like cool new laptop. And then I got like really in my feelings and I'm sorry to use an outdated term. Okay, here's what I'll say. I feel for Em. I warned Em before this. I was like, I'm gonna get emotional. Okay, so it's January, right? I feel like a lot of things have shifted in the last couple of months

for a variety of giant and little reasons. And one of the things I've committed to this year is to try to feel all my feelings instead of just like shoving them down and letting them just like sit and fester, whatever. And so I've been like trying to be more receptive and open even when feelings are bad or scary. Oh, shit. Okay. And in that vein, I mean, I've already just behind the scenes had some very massive stuff going on.

Tectonic plates shifting personally, but you know, nothing terrible, all fine. But in that vein, so I had therapy this morning and I was feeling very brave. Oh God, that's a bravery. Put that back down. And I was like, you know what? I just had this gut feeling. I was like, I just, I want to pop into Reddit. Oh, that's not just brave. That's brazen. Okay. It was like final boss territory, you know? Yeah, that really is. Okay. Well, hey, proud of you. Couldn't do it myself. Thank you. And I didn't, I was like, you know what, whatever happens, I'm just gonna try and, when I start to get closed off or defensive,

I'm just gonna open up and just let it all come through. And it was a very emotional experience. And I feel that it was all very good. I don't think I would have ever said that. It was hard to read and look through some of it, but it was very eye-opening, and I feel like maybe I will keep an eye on it in the future. Because I think now that I'm just more receptive and less, like, immediately defensive, I can kind of just take things either with a grain of salt or, like, actually maybe see more

of the value behind some of the critiques. And I will also say like I was going through the post just to see like what people were feeling and thinking about the show because it is fair that like we hear feedback. And I was just shocked at how few like nasty comments there were. Like any Reddit post I'm on anywhere on Reddit there's like nasty posts and nasty comments there were. Like any Reddit posts I'm on, anywhere on Reddit, there's like nasty posts and nasty comments. And there were like one or two that were like, not nice. But I mean, everybody, even when people were like,

oh, I don't listen anymore, whatever, like they were all very kind and nothing nasty. And so I just was very thankful for that. And I just wanted to kind of put that energy back out there to all the listeners too. Like thank you, even if you're not feeling it or whatever that you're not being mean. That's just really, that goes to show like the listeners

we have just being really, really great. Let me check my notes, hold on. How far down did you go? Wait, on Reddit? Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm on bullet two of 92. No, I'm just kidding. How far?

Not too far. I just read a couple of posts that said, like, does anyone else feel this way? You know, like the very daunting ones where it's like one was called disappointed frown face. And so of course, I clicked that one. And I just I felt like the it was a very eye opening experience. I just wanted to say thank you for everyone for even giving feedback and leaving your opinions

because even when it was differing, like people were at least giving their honest opinion and being kind about it. And so thank you for that. And so I did, there was like a through line with a couple of the things that I was reading that were like questions people kept asking or inconsistency

or clarity that maybe they wanted. So I don't know how many people out there actually reflect this, but it seemed like people were confused about a few things. So I guess I figured we'd kind of like just explain, I don't know if there's anything from our side to elaborate or give clarity on or put people at ease, I suppose.

And that the first one being a researcher. And we do have a researcher, but only one, and they're very great, but we take their privacy very seriously, right? And because they don't necessarily want to be shouted out or whatever. So we try to keep it kind of on the DL, but we do have one researcher and they have kick-ass research abilities.

It's a partnership though. It's not like an assembly line where they just do the work and then we read it off a teleprompter. If it does come across that way, I apologize. Maybe it's like a different writing style. I don't know, but that is not how it really works I also found that I thought like oh they would just be kind of helping like collate notes and stuff but I've also found that

They have really really good insight into a lot of things especially in my crime stories that I don't necessarily have so like life in you know the wilderness and like national park rules and life and how that works and life on the spectrum and things that like I feel I have added nuance to my stories but so that's why I think it's such a valuable asset to have them on the team. But for what it's worth we do still do our own research and spend a lot of time picking topics and researching them and I promise you I don't just go through Netflix and pick like the top ones I mean, I sometimes do if I'm like that's really interesting, but I just wanted people to rest easy that we are still very Committed to covering stories we like and are interested in and it's not like we've handed off the whole, I guess, narration to somebody else.

Yeah, and I'll say that both of us have different relationships with the researcher. That's true, too, and I don't even know how Em works with the researcher. Like, we have our own styles, yeah. I don't often work with the researcher. There are a lot of times, and that was because I was, I don't look at Reddit, but I have people

who will bring things to me. And for a while, they people were saying. This was like, I guess to me, it felt nasty. I don't know how nasty it is. I don't know how how helpful of criticism it was. But I saw something a long time ago, people being like, oh, things have obviously gone downhill since we got a researcher.

But then I think they were just picking a random spot on a timeline to assume when the researcher happened. And that's what it is. And they were they were also picking stories as examples of like, when things were either much better or they were they were picking time, they didn't know what they were talking about. They were picking times where either we did have a research and they were picking, they didn't know what they were talking about. They were picking times where either we did have a research and they were saying things were better since then,

but then they were also using that as an example to say that our research has, it was like- It's like you can't win a little bit sometimes. And that's the nature. Yeah, they didn't know what they were talking about. But that's the nature of being like a public figure. People can say whatever they want on the internet and it's like at a certain point, you know, yeah, it's anyway ever since then, I, I was like, okay,

well, I've been doing a lot of experimenting with my own research, like it's nothing it's as there's no like, secret hidden B for anything with me and the research, I can tell you trying like new. But there's, it's just me almost taking that comment to heart and being like, OK, well, how about I do this? And then all of a sudden, like they'll say, oh, this is this is the best research they've ever done. They obviously brought the researcher on.

And then it's like an episode that I 100 percent did all the work on. And then I'll do another episode with the researcher. And then they'll say, oh, this is terrible. But then it'll be flipped the next week where with the researcher was the best and with my work. So like, no matter what people are, you know what I mean? That's why, I know, but that's why it's like, okay, the second you kind of, at least for me, the second I was like, you know what,

I'm just gonna take everything and be like, all right, tell me, tell me what you feel. And guess what? 90% of people are like, I think it's fine and great, or just take a break and come back, it helps me sometimes. You know, just like- I'm just saying, because I just wanted to explain

that I don't have the same relationship with the researcher that you do. I would argue still at least half of my stories, I don't even use a researcher. So- Yeah, yeah. So it's also like, yeah, moot point in a certain way. And so we do have a researcher, yes. And I believe for my stories,

because it's the nature of like true crime and telling people's real life stories and very personal. But you have a lot more on the line. Very traumatic. Yeah, it's like, I just care about the really, very carefully done research. And yes, I have a journalism degree, which helps, but also having a researcher to access like,

those library things that I don't have time to do these days. You know, and things like that, where it's like so helpful to get the extra tidbits that aren't in the main sources online. Anyway, all that to say, yes, we do have a researcher. I very intentionally didn't want to make this defensive and I'm sorry, I don't want it to come across that way. No, no, no, you're not being defensive.

The only reason I jumped in was to say that like you said I don't even know how your relationship is yes Yeah, and it's good to know because I'm like okay. That's no I didn't know party feels like you know then people will hold on to The part that I say like I don't even use a researcher But I will say to the people who like have left comments I've gotten feedback that some of those episodes are the ones that you thought I use the researcher the most. So you don't really know what to what degree. I just I sense we're talking about it. I'll just I'm just bringing it up because I'm like, oh, that's that's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way that people just assume that the episodes are better when I have no grab on it. And it's like, sometimes those are the

ones you guys like the most. I'm so glad you said that, though, because I feel like that is exactly what I was trying to do is just like clear the air, so to speak, and just be very upfront, because another word of 2025 for me, I have two that I'm like really focused on, which is simplicity, well, three, I guess, simplicity, openness, and authenticity.

And I think what like being authentic is so undervalued in like the entertainment field, whatever. And so, you know, we try to be that way. And so that's, and I guess maybe, I don't know, that was part going on Reddit and just really just taking it all in and seeing what, because it's, I mean, it's what people are thinking and feeling, you know what I mean?

And it's like, I can't control that from my end, right? Like if they're gonna not like something, it's okay. They don't have to like it. And I just really wanted to work on like my spirals, you know, and not falling into those. And so I just kinda like took it all in and most of it was really positive or at least like kind, you know?

And the other, there was a second, just one more thing I promised folks for people who were like, what the hell, who cares? The other thing that I wanted to address, and I will say a lot of people were saying like, I wish Emma and Christine would see these comments and like just, so that's kind of why I'm like, you know what, okay, yes, I will see the comments

and I will hear them and internalize them and not internalize them, I guess, but like, you know, I will take them in and then make a decision. But upon reading a lot of the comments, people were, you know, saying different times that they've sensed we were like burnt out or, you know, super exhausted and like,

yeah, you're probably right. I will say though, a very funny thing, my friend, my newer friend Nicole, who does a psychic story podcast, she was listening to an episode and she's like, really? Like I said something like, oh, that was like one of the worst days and whatever. And I had just had this like horrible thing. And she goes, really? I totally didn't sense any of that. I'm psychic and I know you. So I think at a certain point it's hard to read somebody just based on like a two hour.

Well, also I think it's the same thing as the researcher where I think people sometimes think that we're the most burnt out. Like it was, remember I told you a while ago that I got feedback that people were saying like, oh, I'm obviously miserable and like hate the show. And I was like, that was what I felt the best. And like now, ironically, by hearing that, now I don't wanna do the fucking show.

So like, it was like, I was feeling really good about myself and then, or like someone like, like they recognize me and. So like, it was like, I was feeling really good about myself. And then someone like, like they recognized me. And the first thing they said was like, oh, like you're obviously so tired. And I was like, why would you say that? Like, I'm actually like in a really good mood. And now, now I'm not. And meanwhile-

But see, we're at the whims of other people. We need to let that go. But then meanwhile, times where people have said, like, oh, like they're obviously like back in their game. It's like, well, that's actually what I felt the shit. So it's just the exact same thing of like, people are just kind of putting a narrative to it. Putting a narrative to it, which I understand like,

that's human inclination to fill in the gaps and you're trying to figure out, wait, why do the people I listen to every week sound so snippy with each other or sound like one of them's annoyed or, and it's like, you know, sometimes it's just probably nothing, or maybe it's like projecting or maybe it's like, I don't know,

we just sound different that week and you sense something. But sometimes like we are, we're fucking tired and exhausted and burnt out. And, you know, we try to make that like not obvious, but sometimes like we're sick or sometimes I have a lot of pain and I'm like, let's just and so it's not necessarily like a drama or a personal issue with M or like a systemic problem with the podcast. You know, sometimes I'm just like my knee fucking hurts today. You know, sometimes I just say, Christine.

Yeah. Well, usually that's the case on your end. But I'll let you speak to that. Yeah. Well, no. I mean, I was going to say like I've never had a problem with people thinking we're burnt out, unless they're saying it to my face that I'm like a disgrace to the show. But no, I've never had a problem with that, with those comments of people thinking we're burnt out because even on like my bad days, like I love my job. So like if people think I sound burnt out for a day, okay,, as fun as it is for other people to listen to the show,

this is our job. Like, there are days where you might really like your job, you're just still kind of, like, tired, you know? So... Yeah, that's what it is. It's like, it's that idea that, like, it has to get done. And if you don't... And it's like no fault to...

It doesn't mean to be a fault to the show, but one of the best things about our show is that the way that this show even came to be is people got to listen to us become friends and now they're involved in our weekly lives and there are going to be weeks where we're not like super chipper and like it doesn't have anything to do with the show. It's just like I'm a grown-ass adult and the world's on fire so sometimes I'm going to be a little sad you know? Yeah but guess what sometimes it does have to do with the show like I just want to give some credit when people say like, oh, well, they're on a book tour and a live show.

Oh, touring, yeah. Like, yes, it probably does get to a point where it's like, geez, they're taking on a lot. And like, yeah, we are. And like, we have talked about that, you know, this year especially, or this upcoming for 2025. And like, we've already... Well, we talked about it in front of everybody, too.

We've openly said we're not doing a fall tour, you know? We're not doing any book signings this year. We're very, we're just being more, you know, intentional and conscientious in that way. So like, I just also want to point out like, yeah, if you do sense that, that's probably true, or at least like, to some extent. And it's not a, I just want people to know

it's not a bigger issue. Like it's not like, oh, we just hate, at least not for me, I don't suspect for him either. Like we would like to please keep doing this show forever. So we want you all to enjoy it and have a good time. And that's like the ultimate thing because there would not be a show otherwise. And so, you know, we've never taken a week off before.

And some people were like, I'd really prefer they take a week off than post a live episode. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. Maybe that's something the majority of people thinks and I just didn't know. So I just feel like I was getting a lot of interesting takes that I hadn't seen before that we can then just mull over.

And if it doesn't work for us, we just leave it on the cutting room floor. So either way, we're listening. I hear all the feedback and this is just a small sampling rate of all the listeners. So I don't know necessarily what the majority of people believe or think. But I guess today was the first day where I didn't just fully resist, defensively resist from a post and like dissociate and instead I just like took it fully in

and was like processing it. And I don't know. I don't know if I'm proud of you or scared of you. I don't. Well, it was like bizarre. I've never done that before and it's very eye-opening. Good on you. I don't know.

I just started like, I literally had tears just streaming down my face, but it wasn't, okay, here's what I'll say. It wasn't that I was necessarily, I was a little bit hurt by some of the comments because it's just human nature, but I think it was so much less bad than the times I've cried because of a post,

because it wasn't like I was trying to fight against it. It was just like, it hurts me a bit, and I just kind of like cry it out, and then it like moves on. It's like, I'm not like clinging to it and like fighting it and saying like, well, how dare they, you know, I want... It's just almost like, you know what? If they said it, it's out there, I can just let it go.

I'm trying, I'm trying, it's really hard. That's very... I'm sure good of you. I couldn't, I certainly am nowhere near that. I mean, it's taken a year of really, really, really, really intentional work. So it's still very slow going. But I don't know. I guess the other thing that I was journaling about this

before, and I think the thing that really hit me, because a lot of people made the argument too, which is a fair point, I guess, in some ways, that this is their full-time job. We deserve a say, and some people were a little, took that a little far, and some of the responses were really wise and gracious and were like, yeah, this is their jobs,

but this isn't a normal job and we're not their bosses. Imagine thousands of people coming in and being like, you're doing your job wrong. It's a little different, yes, it is our full-time job, but there's like, you know, and so that's why we do care about it so much. But there's some sort of like weird helplessness. Like I, you know, work feedback is like, oh, you get feedback on how quickly you turn in a report

or if you're not bold enough in sales meetings, or whatever the fuck, right? I don't know. I don't have a normal job, but when you go on and it's like reading critiques of like your full-time job and it's like, oh, Christine has taken on a lot with parenting. You know, it's like, it gets so much more personal

and it's like about you and your identity. It's like, oh, so-and-so is not as funny as they used to be, or so-and-so is so annoying. No, these aren't real examples. I'm just saying like, you know, oh, so-and-so is not as funny as they used to be or so-and-so is so annoying. No, these aren't real examples. I'm just saying, like, you know, they're so annoying. I'm just thinking of, like, podcast reviews where people are like, oh, their voice sucks. Like, it's things where, like, in a, quote, normal job,

you know, you do get all that feedback and criticism as well, obviously, and it's not easy. It's about your performance and not your personality. Yeah, it feels like this is, like, one step further into, like, confronting your identity, right? And so anyway, I was just feeling- It's like your boss being like,

yeah, your numbers are really good, but I gotta be honest, some, you kind of suck. You're a terrible mom. I can't stand your voice. Why do you breastfeed? It's like, get a better vocabulary. No, again, these are all examples. None of this is on there.

I'm not saying anybody said this, but I'm just like throwing out hypotheticals. But anyway, I just like at one point just started crying and I thought like, I feel like it's the Truman show where you like hop on just to see like what people are saying. And it's like, like, oh, they used to be so much more interesting. Now they're just like lazy and boring, you know? And it's like, wow, it just really is a very stunning like shock to the system. It's also, I mean, there's nothing wrong

with getting your feelings hurt when people attack your character, but they also don't actually know you in real life. So- Exactly. And that's part of it is like, there's a helplessness where it's like, it's like you're on mute and everyone's talking about you and you can't like defend yourself

or like explain something. And I guess that's what this was an attempt to do, right? Like just kind of openly say like, I see you. And if even if I don't agree with you or think you're wrong, like that's fine. I still see you and it's, I'm glad that you're listening and posting your feedback. That's fine.

That's allowed. And we, again, we want to do the show forever. So like, please stay with us. And we want it to be enjoyable. But anyway, as I was going through this and like reading all this stuff, Blaze walks in the room and he goes, Hey, I just found out I have to get surgery. I'm like, dude, what the fuck? And then I just started laughing. I'm like, this is like a cosmic joke. I don't know what is. So he. Is he okay?

He tore his LCL. It's gross, but it basically, just give ahead if you're really grossed out. It tore off the femur. And he has to get it, I guess, surgically reattached. That's gonna suck. He went in today and I just got a tech surgery and I was like, oh my god. So anyway, it just has felt like a very weird day and I'm sorry this was very like all over the place, but if people, I think people are rightfully so like wondering sometimes like

where and I it's human nature to speculate and be like, I wonder if they still like doing this. I wonder if they're still front, you I mean I'm yeah that doesn't bother me but I it I could so yes I don't know about you I'm having a great time so yeah and I just wanted to say that I just want to say like don't worry we're still here there's nothing to fear my little thirsty rats oh somebody was very upset with and I felt that somebody was very upset with the way I reacted when I remember that day when I was like, what even is a thirsty rat? Is that a thing?

Like, so I was like, Christine was so mean about it. And I was like, no, no, I really just thought like I missed, like it would a joke from Parks and Rec or something, you know? And then I was like, oh, it's a thing you invented. And then I, anyway, I felt like an asshole. So. Yeah, leave me and my rats alone.

I know, I know, I know. And I fully embrace it now in my rats alone. I know, I know, I know. And I fully embrace it now. So I'm, I listen, I'm learning a lot about myself, about everybody. I'm so sorry. This is the longest entry I've ever. I will also say the last nuance to all this is that when people say that, oh, we're different.

It's like, yeah, we're not 24 anymore. Like it's like. I know, but a lot of people even said like, it took me a while to realize, but like they were different, but I was different. Like people listening were like, I realized, like, I wasn't in college anymore and I had a full-time job and it's like, yeah, it's so we're changing for sure, big time, but like, everyone listening is changing because it's years of time.

I don't think of us as like the oldest podcast out there. There's certainly ones older than us, but I do know that we are one of the podcasts that's been around a lot longer than like the COVID boom where everyone bought a microphone at home, you know? So like, I think compared to other podcasts people are listening to, we are maybe one of the only ones that they're listening to where there is such a long timeline where you can see us aging, which, so I wonder if that's why it seems so different compared to other podcasts for them, because a lot of people who were 24

when they started a podcast, that was like two years ago. Like, so I wonder if like, we are just like, I wonder if this is one of those things that hasn't been discussed or observed yet with podcasters is that after a long enough time, like you not only do you feel like they're friends through the parasocial relationships, but you know, a whole chunk of our lives. I mean, we're coming up on like 10 years soon, you're going to know like a third of my life and I've reported every week on what's going on. So it'll be, it'll be interesting, but I mean, it's, it's a fascinating thing that has yet to be studied, I suppose. Yeah. So anyway, I think, I mean, it's it's a fascinating thing that has yet to be studied, I suppose.

Yeah. So anyway, I think I also think it's interesting. Oh, you're crying. I don't know. I don't know why. This just like got me so hard today. I was like, holy shit. And I think part of it is like there's just like thousands of people. There's like 24000 people in that group just like interested in our show and talking about our show, whether it's good or bad and and like most of it's good, but I'm just like, whoa, it was like just so, I think like I'm not used

to just like fully relaxing into discomfort or whatever it is. And I think I just like dove in and I was like, let's just see. And I think like I took so many different things away that it'll take me a while to process, but I feel like the big one is like, people have been here for years.

And I was just like, I don't want anyone who's like been listening for six years and like is along for the ride to feel like, oh, they're just, not that people are saying that, but like, I just want to reassure anyone that like, don't worry, we're not, even if people are making comments or whatever, like we're not going anywhere,

we're, this is like our livelihood and our passion. So we love it and we'll listen to feedback. We can shift things if need be, but you know, we're, don't keep it on, keep it on. I think also it's not the like, I'm speaking for you and your feelings. Yeah, go for it. But like, I think that you're,

it's not just like you're letting yourself take criticism. I think it's just a new feeling for you to open up completely, vulnerably at all. That's the big thing. Exactly. Like I'd like never cry anymore and I thought it was always my Zoloft, but now I'm like, oh no, I just don't let things like get that far. Like I would get things to my eyes and then they wouldn't go any further. And today I was like, oh my God, I'm crying, but it wasn't sad crying. And I was like, oh my God, I'm crying about happy. Like what?

Well, that's because I think one of the, just like you said, one of your feelings is like even realizing that people have been with us this long. So like- It's like so touching and poignant and like, just like so heartening and like validating. I don't know. It just feels like community a little bit. And I think it's been hard. I don't know. It's sometimes isolating podcasting cause you're like just talking and you don't know, it just feels like community a little bit. And I think it's been hard, I don't know,

it's sometimes isolating podcasting because you're like just talking and you don't know that people are listening. I don't know, it's hard to know people are listening. It's very easy to forget that people are listening to you. Yeah, yeah, so it was just a very like overwhelming amount of emotion and love and et cetera. Well, I think that I would think if I were in your shoes,

the big feeling I would be having is like trying to figure out how to balance really vulnerable kind of notions and really vulnerable critical emotions. And not knowing how to juggle that right now. Because you by opening the door, it's like the Pandora's box, you just let everything at you. So maybe the criticisms are the easiest to pay attention to. But in reality, the fact that they're even here is, and saying things and caring enough to say something

is interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's what I'm focusing on. So thank you also, Em, for letting me just say, I'm gonna say something emotional and cry. Anyway, ready, set, go. And you're like, okay, let's clap. So thank you for letting me just totally bulldoze.

I can't control you anymore, Christine, I know that. Apparently now I interrupt you more than you interrupt me. So we gotta balance it out again. We are changing. We gotta go back to the old ways. I know it's like, it's so funny. Somebody even said like, yeah, you know, I feel the opposite. I guess they just can't win.

I was like, I love that. It's so self-aware. Like I actually don't like these kinds of stories when they do them, but I guess you do, so. Yes, they can't win. That's why I went on my little tirade a while ago because people were like, I love the ghost stories. I hate when they spice it up, but then other people were like,

are they always gonna be ghost stories? I'm so annoyed with the ghost stories. I wish they would have a variety. So again, you'll never win. The difference too is like, if you're like Brad Pitt or something, you're just like, people have these opinions like, ugh, you were so bad in this movie, or he was so hot back then, or you're like Brad Pitt or something, you're just like, people have these opinions like, ugh, you were so bad in this movie,

or he was so hot back then, or you're so... But there's not that closeness to the feedback from random people, right? There's not the relationship you have with your listeners that we do where it's much more intense. I'll say that's why I even stopped having as much of a relationship with our researcher, which it was nothing that they did,

but because I was getting feedback like that as much of a relationship with our researcher, which like, it was nothing that they did, but I, because I was getting feedback like that of people just not liking the topics that are being picked, or not liking the research, I was like, I'm gonna take the researcher out of this altogether and just see if I can fix the problem. And I don't know, I still get the exact same amount of feedback. Researcher or not, you guys seem to love and hate me. So. We knew that would happen. It's like, that's what happens when you grow a following.

Like you're not, not everyone's gonna love what you do. And I just, I always knew that, but I think I'm finally like accepting it consciously. And I like saying, that's okay. Not everybody has to listen. But anyway, to those of you who have been here forever and are still here 30 minutes in I'm so sorry, but love you all and

We're not going anywhere. So I guess it's time for a story now. Sure. Yeah, we can redirect. Okay Well for transparency, I did these notes a hundred percent on my own percent on my own. So if you have a problem with it, I don't know. We'll see. This will at least if you're going to give feedback on Reddit later, it'll be honest because you'll know that a researcher was not involved. Let me tell you a story. One time I was in need of a doctor. In fact, I was crying to Christine about how badly I needed a doctor and I did not know what to do. Christine sent me over to ZocDoc and it was truly a dream. It really, really saved me. Game changer.

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Sometimes you can book an appointment that day, which I have done. I love to use ZocDoc for literally every and any malady I may have. And I just, I think their service is so cool. I found it years ago before we ever even had a podcast. So it's very cool and very full circle to have them on as a sponsor. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments

and go to zocdoc.com slash drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-o-c dot com slash drink, zockdoc.com slash drink. This new year, why not let Audible expand your life by listening? Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you. Just open the app and tap into your wellbeing with advice and insight from leading influencers, experts, and professionals.

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or hear a smart talk about investing for your future, you'll find that there too. Ultimately, it's all about starting good habits. Making a positive change is the best resolution you can make for yourself and Audible can help. There's so much opportunity and more to imagine when you listen. Let Audible help you reach the goals you set for yourself and start listening today when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com slash drink. Okay, I mentioned last week when I covered the gyra ghost that it was the second most popular poltergeist in Australia, followed by or following the Humpty Doo poltergeist. Oh, you know I'm ready for this. So I decided to do that. So this is the Humpty Doo poltergeist. Oh, you know, I'm ready for this. So I decided to do that.

So this is the Humpty Doo Poltergeist. So do you know what Humpty Doo even means? Because I obviously did not know. A hill. OK, that's fair. I can see why you thought that. Uh, no, that's a very nice, like gentle parenting way to tell me. I'm so wrong. You're crying a lot. So I'm just going to be like, really got fragile today. Hey, to tell me I'm so wrong. You're crying a lot, so I'm just gonna be really god kind about this.

I'm a bit fragile today. Hey fucking idiot, you were actually wrong. I take it, I embrace it. I am an idiot. Humpty Doo is a slang in Australia for topsy turvy. Oh, okay. Interesting. I love that. Everything's all Humpty Doo. I know, that totally makes sense to me. When you say it like that, I got it immediately.

Yeah, in the context. Yeah. So the Humpty Doo, oh, sorry. And not only is it slang, it's called the Humpty Doo Poltergeist because there's also a town called Humpty Doo. Oh. So it's like a town, the Humpty Doo Poltergeist.

But is it like offensive, like, oh, everything's backwards there? Or is it just like it just happened to be a catchy name? I really hope that they celebrate opposite day. I'll just say that. Wouldn't that be fun? Honestly, I really hope that it's well, it's like having a town called Topsy Turvy in the States, like we'd be like, oh, everything there's upside out, you know, I don't know.

A lot of a lot of people have ruined this, as I say it. But January 6 should be Topsy Turvy Day. And I say that because in Hunchback to Notre Dame, there was Topsy Turvy Day and it was January 6th. What? There was? The Topsy Turvy Day, that song. I have no clue. Something about the 6th of January, I think.

Anyway, in America, it certainly is a Topsy Turvy Day. That sounds thrilling. Yeah. Yeah. So if you wanted to have a true Humpty-Doo day, according to... We just had one. ...Spectrum Notre Dame, there you have a date. Okay, Humpty-Doo is one of the best documented poltergeist cases of all time. Certainly, it's known as the most famous one in Australia. And anybody who went into the Humpty Doo Poltergeist house, none of them ever left is skeptic.

Oh, really? No one? Nobody. Nobody. And there was a lot of people. So it starts in 1998, and this happened in a rental house. This is 90 McMinn's Drive, which as of 2021, it was abandoned. So I don't know if it's because of the ghost or because it was just a rental house

that's probably not being used anymore. It was in Humpty Doo, Australia. It was because of the ghost. Okay, sure. Yeah, let's say it. It's what my research says. Who's gonna get me? Yeah.

Right. This was in Humpty Doo, Australia. It's 45 minutes from Darwin, Australia. I say that because apparently Humpty Doo is like a very small town. Okay. There were five housemates living together. Pictures of them let you know that these housemates,

I mean, they look like the sons of anarchy. Like they are like, like billiard pool hall, like motorcycle guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, that's what, that's at least the vibe they gave. I don't know if I'm reading the show and I was like, is that a zombie one? I forget. I was like, what do they look like? No, it's ones where they look like they could hit you with a pipe and it would be so scared. Yeah. I'd be like, yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Yeah, and they seem like-

Only with love, yeah. I watched interviews with them and everything. They seem like lovely people, but also I'll say, a lot of times the scary mustache muscle bikers aren't the nicest people out there. Yeah, and they're usually maybe the more skeptical ones in historically speaking. Yeah, or at least they're the ones that are tough historically speaking. You know?

Yeah, or at least they're the ones that are tough as nails. They like, they own the- The one and no ghost. The salty spittoon. So let's put it that way. They all look like they belonged in the salty spittoon. That actually is the perfect analogy. Thank you.

And so there was five of them. There was Andrew and Kirsty, who were a couple. There was Dave and Jill, who were a couple. There was Dave and Jill who were a couple. And then there was their bachelor friend, Doug Murphy, who also went by Murph. Bachelor Doug. Okay. Bachelor Murph. Yeah. He, I only say that to let you know that that's, I don't know his relationship status. Fifth wheel. Yeah. Fifth wheel. So it was Andrew and Kirsty, Dave and Jill, Murph. Does he ride a unicycle? They all have to ride a motorcycle. Remember when I said I'd stop interrupting

and then I just like, yeah, it's like intrusive thoughts. I just can't. First of all, I encourage the interrupting, the whole point of the podcast that everyone seems to like is the banter. So if you stop talking, I'm gonna have a fucking problem. Just to clear the air for everybody there. So Dave and Jill, one of the couples,

they moved into the house a year before anyone else did, and they never had any activity. So I think that's where they say, I washed my hands from this. This is not my fucking fault. Okay. But when Andrew and Kirsty moved in, and by the way, they also had a little baby named Jasmine, who doesn't really get much play in this story.

Probably for the best. But when Andrew, Kersi and their baby moved in, that's when activity began. So, OK, well, well, they have a lot of explaining to do. That baby better speak up. Jasmine. So one night, all the roommates, they were on the porch and they were watching a storm come through.

Now I watched a conference from the Parapsychological Research Institute or whatever, where they were talking all about the importance of like poltergeist coming during storms because of all the electricity in the air. So that was static Static energy. That's one big argument about like how this came to be. There are several theories, but one of them is like, oh, the storm. Yeah, because then you can say,

oh, things haven't been the same ever since the storm. The storm and then the lightning behind the spittoon, the what, what is it? The salty spittoon. The salty spittoon. Like there's lightning. So all five of them are hanging out on the porch watching the storm, which sounds lovely. That's what I would do too. That's on dream life. Yeah. While out there, they felt like little pebbles kind of hitting them during the storm. And at first they might've thought like, oh, they're

ricocheting from the storm, like rocks are coming up. But they noticed, one, these were identical to the stones in their gravel driveway, so they were definitely coming from their driveway, and the storm hadn't hit that close yet. Or I think the storm had hit that close, excuse me. But the, so they knew the stones were coming from their driveway, they originally thought they were ricocheting from the storm,

but they realized that they were being thrown pretty much at face, like they were just being thrown as if someone was chucking little rocks at them. Like from standing position or something. Yeah. So they thought, interesting, like maybe this is like a friend who snuck onto our property

is playing a prank on us. Maybe someone's playing a prank on us, which like I can't imagine getting in my car, fucking driving over to somewhere and then finding a way to prank them by taking rocks, I can't imagine getting in my car, fucking driving over to somewhere and then finding a way to prank them by taking rocks. I can't wait to do this to Em later. When they're like, I'm not gonna go outside. I have a gut feeling I'll encounter a true crime.

It'll be me in the bushes with some gravel. I'd be like, I hate this. But I guess their first thought was that there was someone on the property pranking them and they actually walked around the property, they couldn't find anyone, they even called out and said, ha ha, hurry up, we know what you're up to. And also the storm's coming through, please come inside. It's dangerous.

Well, you hope it's a friend, you hope it's not a stranger who just showed up and started throwing rocks at you. But nobody ever said that it was them, they just were like, oh, I don't know how to explain these fucking rocks, said that it was them. They just were like, oh, that's weird. I don't know how to explain these fucking rocks. Let's all go inside. They go inside and now even though they are inside, they keep hearing these pebbles getting thrown at the house.

And then they hear a bunch of them end up on the roof as if someone took a handful and threw them up and they landed on the roof. Ew, like a clattering. them up and they landed on the roof. Eww, like a clattering. Yeah, but they look around outside, no one is close enough to the, no one's outside period, but certainly not close enough to have hit the roof. So they're like, how are rocks showing up on the roof?

So they climb into the crawl space up on the, in the ceiling, like in the loft. And when they get into the loft, from the inside of the house, it starts raining rocks on them. What? As if the rocks somehow were thrown up into the air, like, what's the right word? Went through the roof to come inside the house

and then drop on them. Oh my God, so it materialized like through the, ooh, what? Out of thin air. So it materialized like through the air. And they were the same rocks from outside. And not only that, but even though it was raining outside and all the rocks outside were currently wet, these were bone dry and warm to the touch. Warm. Yeah. More.

Um, so they I mean, at that point, it's like, what do you do? Like, you just hope that you knocked something around in the loft. You hope some hot rocks, some steam. Sounds peaceful. And during a rain, you can hear the rain hitting the roof. You don't even need a sound machine.

Mama Mia. Okay. Not the rain, you can hear all the rocks hitting the roof. Very, very delightful ASMR experience. And it was a corrugated tin roof. So you know, the rocks were like, bang, bang. Clattering around. Yeah. And it was a corrugated tin roof, so you know the rocks were like bang, bang, bang. Clattering around, yeah, and then bouncing. Yeah, so anyway, I don't know what I would do.

Chrissy would have a sauna, I would panic and cry. And I'd say let's go to a real sauna and get off this property. OK, I'd say, well, you have a perfectly good one at home. Well, it does feel like a salty spittoon version of a sauna. It's like the rocks at the corrugated tin roof. The biker spa. Um, since they didn't. The rusty corrugated metal.

Oh my God. After this incident, they were like, okay, that's weird, but it didn't end. Not only were the rocks raining on them, they were now getting pelted at eye level still by nothing. It's as if the rocks were showing up midair and throwing themselves at them. And they were rock, they weren't like hail, right? They weren't like ice or sleet.

They were gravel from the driveway. They were gravel, okay. Whoa, that's creepy. Every time the pebbles were gravel from the driveway. Okay. And the same, yeah, it was the same stones from their driveway where now somehow they were materializing and flying at the roommates. When they went to bed that night, the housemates heard some of the rocks still hitting the walls in different rooms. And it was so loud that not only did it scare, um,

Jill and Kirstie and like they were like crying apparently they're like I mean they're salty spittoon ladies and they were like crying they were so scared and all of them barely got any sleep because they just kept hearing fucking rocks hitting their house and inside like they were hearing them like in the other room. So they didn't know what to do and also I'd be scared to go to bed what if the rocks show up and hit me while I'm sleeping? Yeah I don't feel safe with that like is like what is do. And also I'd be scared to go to bed. What if the rock show up and hit me while I'm sleeping? Yeah, I don't feel safe with that. Like, what is it going to do when I'm unconscious?

Yeah. And for the next few days and nights, things just kept getting worse and worse and it eventually became their new normal. The storm has passed, right? Like, we're not like in storm zone still. Like, the storm has gone through and the rocks are still going. Exactly. Okay, gotcha. Not only this is a day later and now more and more days go by, not only are the rocks being

thrown around the house, but they are still appearing out of nowhere from the ceiling and dropping on them. Many of the stones from they're calling it like raining, that it's raining on them. Wow. Other objects begin flinging themselves throughout the house seemingly out of nowhere, even if it's raining on them. Wow. Other objects begin flinging themselves throughout the house seemingly out of nowhere, even if it's an item of theirs, it seems to be just appearing and then hitting them. Which answers our lifelong question. Yes, yes, the materializing, it's like, it doesn't move.

Well, I guess it could, but in this case. In this case. Jinks. But so yeah, things are just flying at them and it becomes so often like I'm when I tell you this is happening all the time, like there's not a moment. Like you anyone can walk in and at any moment, you're literally never saying flying fantastic. And it seemed to like certain objects more than others because it became something that would fly around all the time.

They called these items frequent flyers. No, wait, okay. What? And these items were double A batteries, which are hard and hurt. No, that would hurt like a bitch. Wrenches. What? Shards of broken glass. Get out of here.

Steak knives and bullets. What? I spoke too soon. Shards of broken glass. Get out of here. Steak knives and bullets. Is my here knife frequent flyer? I feel like you would name that frequent flyer as like a little creepy little pun, but oh no, of all things. In my mind, bullets? An initiation to get into the Salty Spittoon

is letting them take a handful of broken glass knives and bullets and throw it at you. Like I have- Totally, totally. Maybe he's trying to like initiate himself into the salty spittoon is letting them take a handful of broken glass, knives and bullets and throw it at you. Like, totally, totally. Maybe he's trying to like initiate himself into the gang. I don't know. Yeah, maybe he's just like a really tough, tough as nails poltergeist. I guess I used to, how salty, how tough are you?

How tough are you? Yeah, so batteries, wrenches, glass, knives and bullets. So those are frequent fliers. That's honestly very funny. I mean, and it's always. Those are frequent fliers. Those are frequent fliers. That's honestly very funny. I mean, they're cops. And it's always a little too close for comfort. And knives would just get stuck in the wall. Okay, so that's what I always wonder.

You and I have talked about this too, of like, is it on purpose? Or is it like, there's a law, like that they can't actually kill you. You know what I mean? Like, is there some sort of like force field that somehow prevents a demon or a ghost from- Like, is there some sort of like force field that somehow prevents a demon or a ghost from- Like, is there a god who like, has to keep the balance

and like says you can't do this? Yeah, I don't know. Is there some weird like energy they can't penetrate or is it like they're just trying to scare you, they're not even trying to kill you, you know? I always wonder that. Yeah, and I think also- I always wonder if ghosts are trying to kill you.

I do. I do too. Also, in that lecture I watched, they were- Look at you being all intellectual now. Well, usually I wouldn't say that, but now I feel the need to prove myself by doing my own research. But they were talking about how they're big believers

that poltergeists cannot hurt you, they've never hurt you, and if they do hurt you, then it's not a poltergeist, it's something else. Right, because, well, poltergeist also is also a manifestation of someone's energy, right? So it's not even necessarily a demonic entity. It's like, wow, that's interesting. Okay, so that makes sense then, why it would go right past your head. I mean, in some ways.

I just said ice cube, so I'm going to say this. I know, that's why I keep talking, but okay. We're back. Okay. I just said ice cube, so I know that's why I keep talking, but OK. Um, no, not OK. Shut the fuck up. I was just going to make my point so you didn't have to explain your ice, but OK. It's fine. Just go on. OK, sorry about that. So. One other thing that I'll say, which is like so fascinating,

and you and I would have pulled this to is that with these frequent flyer items, they literally come up with like a drawer or like a box outside of the house to leave all the frequent flyers in, and then something will fly by the minutes later, and it has somehow left the drawer and is now flying past them again. It's fully like transporting itself to somewhere else. Oh my gosh.

They were even, there was one story that- Teleporting. Yeah, teleporting. There was one story, one of the guys said that a steak knife flew past him and then he went, "'Oh, that's weird,' picked it up, put it in the- It's weird. After so long, it just became normal for them.

I guess so, yeah. But it flew past him, he looked at the knife, put it in a drawer, and then minutes later it flew past him again, even though the drawer hadn't opened. And then when he opened the drawer, the knife was gone. So it fully just dematerialized and rematerialized. Yeah, that's fucking gross. And I mean, it was happening all the time. Sometimes it would happen 20 times in a minute. Sometimes it would happen once every 20 minutes. Sometimes there were like days where it only happened twice and those were like your good days

when the knife only flew twice. Yeah. But then eventually the house also started trashing itself like in very poltergeist form. So they would find everything destroyed. They woke up one day and their CD player, their stereo were fucked up. Not the stereo.

Back in the 90s, do you touch a man's stereo? Are you kidding me? I mean, radio shack, I mean, that's expensive, yeah. And back then, stereos were like, they took the whole wall. They were like a hundred pounds. Like today, that's like someone's home entertainment system, you know?

Like you don't fuck with that. And you know, like maybe the ghosts didn't like their- I'm like, you can throw a knife at everybody, but you can't fuck with their stereo. You know they hated, like, their, like, metal slasher music, I assume they listen to. Yeah, they're like, just break the CDs. I'm also totally stereotyping them.

They might like, soft classical, you know? I feel like ever since you said Salty Splatoon, I just can't get those tough guys, how tough are you guys out of my head? Let me see if I can find a picture of them. Humpty-doo. If you didn't watch SpongeBob, you're missing out on the Salty Spittoon reference, but it's basically like

they just- SpongeBob tries to be tough enough to get in and they're just kind of like the biker bars of the sea. Oh man, where the hell- I saw a picture and I should have- I should have saved it. Oh, and any picture I show you it just looks like a guy with a goatee, but when they're all next to each other, like they look like a band. They look like the Salty Spittoon. I don't know how else to explain it to you. I'll find a picture later and show you.

Okay, I can't wait. Okay, so their CD and their stereo, their CD players, their stereos are being thrown against the floor by themselves, their windows are shattering, which is where the broken glass is coming from. Their beds are undoing themselves all the time. Like they would just walk into a room after making their bed and the mattress is leaning up against the wall.

And the bedding is on the floor. And they even said like it's a daily occurrence where you they would just say to each other your mattress is on the wall again Mattress is on the wall again, and they come and redo their bed I'm actually I'm actually just keep it on the wall every morning. I woke up. Yeah put it on the wall Just sleep on I just sleep on them sleep on a wall. Well, no, that wouldn't work. I don't know or I've yeah Every day they would go into their rooms find their bedding completely undone Appliances removing themselves off the shelves.

You could hear scraping and banging sounds inside the walls. There were piles of stones now just appearing out of nowhere, just like stacked on top of each other. Eww, that's so poltergeisty. And they didn't really know what to do. So despite not being religious, they called in a priest because what else do we do? We might as well just give it a shot. There was Father D'Souza and he pretty much as soon as he came in, activity began.

This is actually a quote from like as soon as he walked into this house. One of the residents screamed out Father. And when he turned to respond, he saw a knife that had been on the kitchen counter flying straight for him, and he felt that he didn't have time to react. When the knife was just a few feet from him, it stopped just as though it had hit something and fell to his feet. No, okay, because I was gonna say,

well, you could argue like, oh, the guy threw it at him when he wasn't looking, but the stopping in midair thing is. And as if it had hit something and then dropped. So I wonder if like what we couldn't see is it was like holding it like a murderer and then like just wanted to scare it and dropped it. Yeah. Ooh, yuck.

He, Father DeSouza believed that the entity was attached to someone who was unaware they were a medium, which is an interesting take. Interesting. And he tried to bless the house, but after only three days of silence and peace, the activity was back. So they had to call another priest in. Because they were like, this guy didn't cut it so we got to bring another one in. Obviously not. So then they bring in Father English, Tom English. I honestly I don't know if I'm impressed or mad at this. I don't know if this is like a thanks priest situation. Okay. But he walks in and he straight up just says I can't do anything Listen you gotta love someone who had no honesty. Yeah who admits when they're not up for the task What'd you say simplicity authenticity and oh?

Careful with those fingers you're gonna set off more balloons balloons, or I don't know what's gonna happen, but Since your laptop sucks. Yeah, we go simplicity Authenticity, what was the other one? Openness. And openness. And he was all three of those in one sentence. God, there, finally.

Finally. Yeah, he basically comes in and he says, I'll help however I can. Nope, I've tried, I'm sorry. I really thought mine would be different. Do you want to do the balloons? That's a peace sign. Yeah, I tried that one, I did too. Oh. Okay, thought mine would be different. Do you wanna do the balloons? That's a peace sign. I tried that when I did too. Oh.

Okay, the balloons are really comforting. Thank you, that actually helped me. That makes me feel better, thank you. It's like taking a breather. Yeah, so he comes in and he's like, I'll help however I can, but I gotta be honest, there's not much I can do, because he believed that when poltergeists

are ready to leave, then they'll stop with their bullshit, but there's really nothing you can do in the meantime. You just gotta like rock it out. Well, that sucks. Yeah. And so he showed up apparently four different times, and he saw many items hurl across the house, including...

Even though he couldn't do anything, he just kept showing up to watch the spectacle? Yeah, I guess to pray with them or something. Thanks. I don't know. I'd be like... If I knew I couldn't do anything, I'd be like, I'm not coming back here or something. Thanks. I don't know. I'd be like- It's priests? Seriously.

If I knew I couldn't do anything, I'd be like, I'm not coming back here. If I knew I could do something, I'd be like, I can't do anything. And I will. So I don't know why he keeps coming back. But okay. Well, so during his stay, he saw many items hurled across the room, including a bullet that appeared and fell to his feet. Ew.

Okay. But see, this makes me wonder if instead of someone running at you or whatever, or holding it, if it does just project how, but then everybody has maybe some sort of force field or energy protect, you know what I mean? When it went to the priest and then fell, maybe there's some sort of protection shield, we don't know, or energy field, I don't know.

Or maybe it's how they do it with green screen And there's just someone in a full-blown onesie. Just holding the bullet. You know that seems more reasonable actually yeah, you're right So Father English this is a quote from him. He actually gave an interview too, and he was like you fucking explain it to me I don't know Wow this guy Tells it like it is. He seemed like a straight shooter,

no pun intended with this bullet. Yeah. But he said, everything went berserk, things were flying around. When I was leaving, a medicine bottle came out of the bathroom. And then the interviewer was like, how did the medicine bottle fly out of the bathroom? And he went, you tell me.

I don't know. Yeah, what the fuck, if I knew. It's like, I'm actually telling you exactly what happened. So my question was what medicine, but I guess nobody thought to ask that, whatever. That's a great question. I'm curious, I'm like, is it like a Tylenol PM or is it like a Vicodin, you know, is it a, who knows?

But so, I mean, just walking out of the bathroom all of a sudden, that would freak me, I would think about it in a different way where if I'm leaving a bathroom and now a bottle is being thrown out of the bathroom to get my attention, I'd be like, were you in there the whole time I was in there? Oh, for sure. This is why I'm so scared to use bathrooms in haunted houses. The last time we can't disclose the location, but we were using their bathroom and I made Christine go in the bathroom with me while I peed. Remember? Yes. I was so terrified.

And the- I didn't find it that weird at all, but you seemed very distraught about the whole thing. I was terrified that they were gonna see my pussy. I was like, it's terrifying. I'll stand in the bathroom with you. And then you were all upset that I was in the bathroom with you and I was like, it's fine.

I don't mind being here. I was like, look over there. You were like, Christine, oh, ah. I was like, okay, I'm trying to help with the ghosts. They're probably in here too. I don't know that like me being in here prevents the ghosts from coming in. Now we're all watching here too. I don't know that like me being in here prevents the ghosts from coming in. Now we're all watching you pee

and I don't know how much better that is. In my mind, I thought you could take them all. It's like, you know when dogs are squatting and they stare at you because they need to look at you to know if they're safe. To sense danger, right? I needed to look at you to know that you were looking everywhere else.

Well, you didn't shut up long enough to make sure. You were just like, like uncomfortable with me watching you pee. I was like, you got to focus my friend, because I'm on high alert. I did have a little pee anxiety. I couldn't do it. I understand. I want to get out of here faster. I can't do it. I understand. But you know, the ghosts, I feel like they've seen it all, you know, at this point. You know, that's true. That's what I tell myself. But if then, can you imagine if we left the bathroom and I was right and then a medicine bottle flew at us from inside, that would have downright terrified me. So cool though.

Oh my God. I would have just loved that. That would have been awesome. Also, I will say the worst part about one of the bathrooms in that place was that there was no light bulb. Like they, wasn't it like pitch black and you would use a flashlight to pee? Yeah, that is true. I'm glad you gave a thumbs up. wasn't it like pitch black and you would use a flashlight to pee? Yeah, that is true.

I'm glad you gave a thumbs up. Thank you, Apple, for always reading the room on Em's part. OK, so this this father English, he was like, someone got thrown at me. I don't know how to explain it. But when he came over watching me poop. OK, are you happy now? Thank you, everybody. He came over four times, like I said, and when he did the blessings for the group, he ended up leaving his Bible for them, holy water for them, and a crucifix there for them,

just in case they wanted to feel safer. One of everything, the full toolkit. The whole variety pack. But by nightfall, so he shows up, he leaves this Bible with them. By nightfall, or I think one source even said, while he was still there, the Bible's pages were ripping themselves out.

Ew, that's bad. Terrifying. The crucifix threw itself around the house with ease, and one of the bottles of holy water smashed itself into a wall. Oh, that's not a good sign. So none of them were going to work for you. After Father English, the tenants brought in a... Imagine the guy with the green screen thing,

onesie running with the little bottle of holy water, like, oh, I don't wanna touch it, I don't wanna touch it. But he has to smash it. I'm just saying, green screen technology is basically just making our eyes see ghosts. Like, you just can't see it. But isn't a Bible like gonna burn them or something? I would think, but apparently not, not this time.

They can wear gloves, I guess. Now I'm thinking, like a true ghost hunter. After Father English, the tenants brought in a Greek Orthodox priest, because they were like, fuck it, let's try everything. So he reached for his Bible when he went into the house, and all of a sudden an unseen force attacked him.

This was the first time anyone was attacked. Oh no! Because things were getting thrown around all the time, but no one had been grabbed. And he grabbed for his Bible. Immediately this thing was clearly trying to rip the Bible out of his hands. And so the priest was like fighting something with the Bible. Ew, that's like out of a movie. It was trying to, whatever this entity was, was trying to twist his arm around his back

to get the Bible. So eventually you saw his own arm contorting behind his back and he got thrown into the chair nearby and he was like panting and sweating and he was like, I've never seen anything like this. Did he stay? I don't know, because we don't see anything else about him. Okay good, cause he probably fucking, I don't blame him. I'd be like, change my name, I'm out of here.

I'd be like, this is too damn much. The priesthood is not for me after all. I thought I was doing a great job. I'm actually a civilian. And then I got fucking attacked by a demon. So none of these priests were able to help and some would argue that it only gravitate, or gravitated art

Aggravated the poltergeist even more By the way in Australia, they were not calling it a poltergeist. They kept calling it a palt Which is the most Australian thing I've ever seen Hi, this polt man. He just Anyway, so they kept calling it a polt. I'm calling a poltergeist But yeah, a lot of people said it only aggravated them. And anytime they said any phrase or mention of a Bible, all of a sudden activity would pick up more

after these priests were here. Okay, okay. See, thanks, priests, all over again. You were right at the beginning to have the same inclination. From the very beginning, since I've been saying- From day one. You've always said that for real.

So pebbles are being thrown all the time. This is now like a full blown regular occurrence minute by minute. Very rarely were there days without a single incident. There were often dangerous items being chucked around. A lot of them, like I said, would narrowly miss them as if just toying with them. Or maybe there's some rule we're unaware of in the cosmos. Interestingly, the housemates were, like I said, not very scared eventually. They were just fascinated by this thing.

But I think it's because they realized at some point that this poltergeist wasn't trying to hurt them. It was just... Right, they didn't feel as afraid maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And it also, weirdly, when the items would hit them, which did not happen a lot, but when it would hit them, all of them felt out of character soft. Like, apparently when the rocks would hit them... which did not happen a lot, but when it would hit them, all of them felt out of character soft. Like apparently when the rocks would hit them.

Oh, the items felt soft. Oh, what? So when the rocks would hit them, apparently, this is a quote, it felt like a marshmallow. So it was truly just trying to get their fucking attention. Oh, weird. I wonder what a knife would have felt like. I wonder if they would be bleeding.

Yeah. That would be me going, what does this knife feel like? Ooh, ooh, that wasn't, I'm so sorry. That's not what I intended to do. It would take one really drunk person to just give permission and then all of a sudden they've got a knife in their hand. It's like, oh, oh my bad.

I thought we were doing that here. No, okay. Plus the poltergeist had never pulled any of these antics near the baby. Never. Whoa, that's interesting. Has the baby and the poltergeist ever been seen in the same room is a question I have.

No, I think you were. This gentleman, I feel like is a little too quiet for my liking here. You know, she should be the loudest in the house. That's right. And all of a sudden she's a bit of a recluse. I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, it's nice and suspicious.

I'm gonna write that one down for the theories when I list them later.'s going on there. It's nice suspicious. I'm going to write that one down for the theories when I list them later. Fishy with jazz. It's anyway, because this thing was not hurting the baby, it kind of they knew that, OK, well, this thing happens to at least like have boundaries. Yeah. And like respect our boundaries. That's not going to mess with the baby. Um, so that kind of gave them more reason to brush it off all the time.

Because it was like, well, it's only coming after us. And when it hits us, it feels like a marshmallow. And other than that, it's just like, I mean, it feels like something that should be happening at the Salty Spittoon. You know, it's like, and it's like now Murph is no longer the fifth wheel because he is a finally buddy, you know, to partner up with. So now it feels like we're all even now. You're onto something else because maybe he had just a really shy girlfriend and the girlfriend just wanted to let them know she was like about that life.

Yeah, about the light of throwing knives and doing cool tricks. She's like, I'm tough too, I just don't want you to see me. That's all. Yeah, yeah, I'm just a little shy, that's all. And I hate Greek Orthodox priests. I hate Greek Orthodox priests. That's one thing you need to know about me.

And I also do judo and that's why his arm got all twisted up because I'm really good at judo. And also I do own my own CGI green screen suit. Thank you so much for asking. Yeah, I do. I'm practicing. So one of the scarier ways that the Poltergeist would interact with them was through messages it left for them through the house. Oh, God. What? What do you mean?

So this did not happen, I don't think, right away. One source said that the writing actually happened before anything else, but I didn't see that on any other source. I don't know how true that is. I noticed that a few sources I had to to like re put the timeline back together. It seemed like it was out of place. Yeah. But at some point, and the thing that started really freaking them out

was when this thing started spelling out words for them, whether that was in markers and like drawing it out or writing it out on a board. They had like a whiteboard. Oh, that's pretty fascinating. Yeah, and it looked really weird too. Like it looked like the handwriting was like draw it. Like sloping down. Yeah.

Oh, that's so creepy. Like as if it was like losing energy to hold the marker. Oh, yeah. Ooh, like that old professor falling asleep. Yeah. That's how I would make it less scary for myself. They also noticed that words are being spelled in literal scrabble tiles, which is like so convenient. Wow, that is convenient.

And like I would just be having scrabble tiles all over the place. I'm like, can you use these instead of knives and just spell what you want from us? I'd be like, actually I have a really tough hand. Can you help me? Do you know any words that I could use? Well, then they also started seeing words written out in literal piles of stones. Ew, those damn pebbles?

Yeah, so one of the things I'm gonna send you. Oh God, oh God, you know I hate poltergeist pictures. So first, actually, while we're here, I will show you a few pictures. So this is, is this going to Geo's Trio or are you? I'm actually gonna send it to Geo's Trio. I just sent it to you too by accident, but Geo's Trio.

So this is some of the, this is one of the guys holding a bunch of pebbles that rained on him. Shut the fuck up. And then this is a closeup of the pebbles that rained on him. Shut the fuck up. And then this is a closeup of the pebbles, which like you can tell it's just driveway gravel. Oh wow, but they're like kind of like hunks of it. Like they're-

Yeah, like it's a full handful. They're like pretty sizable gravel pieces. If they got you in the eye, you're in trouble. Yeah, that would hurt. This is a picture- I mean, I guess not, because it's a marshmallow really or something But picture of the same guy with a bullet that landed on him. I don't know where he's like, yeah, what of it? Also, let's talk about their leopard print microwave cover or whatever that is let's

And then here's a picture of more of the pebbles that would just appear and get thrown around the house. Oh my lord. This is another one I think you'll really appreciate. This is the drawer that they kept putting things in, the frequent flyer drawer. Where things would just go missing from the drawer. Oh, this is unsettling. It's like a bunch of sharp objects.

It's literally just like a drawer full of steak knives and like ashtrays and glass. Yeah. Ashtray, wow. This is really, okay, I think what freaks me out, especially about this picture, which we'll put them on social media too, but like, if you're watching the YouTube just for now,

is like how candid, like she's literally just like, I just woke up from a nap, I'm gonna grab a soda and walks in the kitchen and like, oh, take a picture, I found more rocks. Like it just looks like your day to day like, oh look, and she's still in her t-shirt and just, I don't know, it looks so just like they've gotten jaded by it.

Yeah, so here, I mean, that's how I, it's like at some point you're just walking around in your underwear like normal. Another one, you know, get the camera. Yeah. So this is when they found the word. By the way, Eva's not on the call, folks. So Em just sent Eva a picture of a drawer full of knives. I'm like, I wonder what she's going to do. I feel like at some point she just thinks like, oh, you oh you. Oh you, we have fun in this group chat.

This is another video I'm gonna send you. I think this is Dave or Murph, I don't know who it is, but someone in the house, this is when they discovered the word car written on the floor in piles of stones. Oh, I'm already upset about whatever this is gonna look like. No! And it was just discovered.

And it just happened out of... And a lot of times this would happen within seconds of having just been there and it wasn't there. No. So there's not enough time for these things to have even been built. It's not like somebody ran in and pranked them or whatever. That is upsetting. No, it's happening in seconds.

And then there was something else I wanted to show you. And again, he's just shirtless, like, oh, would you look at that? He's in his shorts just walking around, in seconds. And then there was something else I wanted to show you. And again, he's just shirtless like, oh, would you look at that? He's like in his shorts, just walking around, probably a cigarette in one of those hands, just going, well, well, there it is. In fact, this is a list that they started keeping of words.

I just sent you another picture. These are some of the other words that showed up. Oh no, oh my God. Okay, so first of all, there's a picture of a cross is the first one. That's not, not great. There's a picture of what looks like a trident. Yeah.

Car. Troy was Troy was not one of the people, right? Okay. Help. Fire. MF. Skin. No TV. Pig camera, die, tonight you die.

Yeah. Hello? I like how it started with car, like I'm just learning my spelling and then I'll get to them more. Right? Like why would you start with fucking car? Okay. This is horrifying, M.

And so for you and others wondering, some of the first words in particular to come out were fire, skin, car, help and Troy. And two weeks before the Poltergeist activity began, one of their friends, Troy, burnt to death in a car crash. No! So fire, skin, car, help Troy. Holy shit.

This led many to believe, obviously, that the entity was Troy trying to make contact with them. The housemates, however, everyone in the world seems to believe that this is like one of the most plausible explanations, but the housemates never believed this was Troy. One, because Troy was misspelled. Troy has a U in it. It was T-R-O-U-Y.

Okay. So why would he spell his own name wrong? Then he also, why would he throw knives and bullets at his friends? Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, if you're gonna get someone's attention, you can pick other frequent flyers,

like a Rubik's cube or something, you know? Or like a stuffed bunny rabbit. Like you don't need to make it like a knife and a piece of glass. Yeah, or like, just like keep doing the scrabble tile thing and just say, hey. I mean, he did say help. He did say help.

But I wonder, well, you know, my first thought was like, if this is poltergeist activity, maybe somebody in that house was so traumatically affected by that loss of Troy that they're almost like creating this like whirlwind of energy. And it's like. And that would be the theory of Murph bringing in the energy.

Oh, okay, my bad. I didn't mean to get in there, but. No, you're good, cause Murph and him were best friends. And one of the, I didn't see this anywhere, but I think it's interesting that this didn't get mentioned. On Murph's arms, he has tattoos of flames, which would make skin and fire make sense. Oh my God, you're right.

But no one else talked about that. So I don't know if that was just like taken out of the picture. But anyway, they never thought it was Troy because why would you miss play your name? Why would you throw knives at us? That's weird. Yeah. If it were a hoax and one of them was pulling a prank on anyone, this would be like a joke that's too far and too soon. Especially for really close friends and like grown adults.

They're not like teenagers. Yeah. And all of them knew Troy too. So all of them were affected in different ways. One of the other thoughts was that the Poltergeist was not Troy, but was listening in on these friends grieving a death that happened two weeks ago. And so during this time to get a rise out of them was pretending to be Troy. So like using that to their advantage

in some like sinister way. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Even at one point, because they were so unsure that maybe this could be Troy or enough people thought it was Troy. Troy's mom literally came to the house at one point to talk to the spirit. Because I mean, it's got to be really hard. Yeah, I'm sure.

And because Murph was like Troy's best friend. So I wonder if Murph just said, can you come over here and tell me I can stop throwing knives at us? Yeah. So as she came, she came over, she asked if Troy was there. And I guess she was trying to spell something on the floor to see if he would respond, almost like a Ouija board or something. As she was on her hands and knees, she felt something go through her next to her ear

and a shard of glass fell so close to her face that it went through her hair. And so a lot of people are like, your son wouldn't do that. But she also said it felt like someone was running their fingers through her hair to calm her down. But then does that just like validate the theory that everything is like weirdly soft? And so that's why it felt like a finger's right there. The hair or

is this Troy only knowing how to like use certain objects, but he's making them feel more comforting than they are? Like if a rock hits you, it doesn't feel hurtful but he's making them feel more comforting than they are. Like if a rock hits you, it doesn't feel hurtful because he's not trying to hurt you. Yeah, so a lot of people are like, is this Troy? And he's just like using what he can to communicate with you or like, is this not Troy just fucking with everyone? That's very perplexing.

Did she have an opinion at the end of the day? Like either way, she just didn't know. But the housemates decided that it was not Troy. They were like, he wouldn't fucking do this. Especially when we're asking for help and three priests came in and like. And he like attacked one of them. Yeah, that's a good point.

That's a good point. So. Or. What? There could be multiple spirits. Or there could be multiple spirits. And Troy's being held captive by something that won't let him escape. That's true. Maybe Troy was saying help while others are throwing knives. Yeah. Interesting. I hadn't thought about that. Or he's there to

help. Oh. Like I'm here to put a big bubble around the priest so he doesn't get a knife thrown at him or whatever. You're thinking like a screenwriter. It's like there could be a movie about this at some point. I'm just saying, tam, tam, tam, tam. Just kidding, somebody else write it. I don't have the time or energy. Well, they were like, this obviously isn't Troy. And so in the most like scary, salty, spittoon Australian way ever, they go around the house,

just cussing out the poltergeist being like, we know you're not Troy, why don't you just fuck off or whatever they say. It was like a cockney accent. And the knives, like throw you're not Troy, why don't you just fuck off or whatever they say. It was like a cockney accent. And the knives, like throw another knife at me, I dare you. They were like, fuck right off. Like, this is not Troy, we know you're not Troy.

Like, you're obviously not gonna leave, but like don't fuck with our friend at the very least. Weirdly that worked and no more references were ever made about Troy, but obviously the public I stayed. Wow, maybe that was like a boundary that it had to follow, you know? Like it was like fine. They were like, ooh, I didn't know I took it too far. Sorry. The knives and the bullets were fine, but like I didn't know Troy was the big thing, you know? I didn't even spell it right. Okay, fine. Jeez, let's stop.

So one night while the housemates were all drinking in the kitchen, they later found a massive rock pile in the hall next to them, which should have taken like hours to build hours. And it happened in seconds. They were walking past this hallway nonstop. Yeah, we're in the it's like walking next to the hall in your kitchen. And all of a sudden, it just appeared. It was the cross and the trident you just saw that they that was on that note. It was a massive like flat statue essentially, like a big design of a solid cross and a solid trident. And so, which some people think maybe it wasn't a trident, maybe it was a cross and a devil's pitchfork.

Oh, right, pitchfork. And the formation, this is a quote, it was apparently so neat and perfect, it would have taken hours to make with a straight edge, a square and a ruler. And not only that, but every stone was flat side up. So it was all very intentional in being designed. Ew, is there a picture of it?

I couldn't find a picture of it, no. Oh man, see then I'm like, why didn't you take a picture? Maybe they just like kicked it, because they were like too scared. They didn't have time, because as soon as they saw it, Dave bent down to look at it, and he just went to touch have time because as soon as they saw it, Dave bent down to look at it and he just went to touch it. And as soon as he touched it, all the stones exploded through the house.

Huh? Every single one of the rocks just shot into a completely different direction, as in like, don't touch my art. If you, if you're gonna ruin it, I'm gonna ruin it first. Exactly. Jeez. But so the stones flew all over, they hit the wall so loudly, I'm gonna ruin it first. Exactly. Geez. But so the stones flew all over,

they hit the wall so loudly that the baby in the other room woke up. And then on top of that, as if that wasn't scary enough, then tools all over the house started appearing and flying into every direction. Tools? Mm-hmm. Which I'm guessing is like a wrench, you know.

Yeah. Some sources say that the cross and the trident made of stones are when they called the priest, but I, because I was trying to figure out this timeline. Some of the stories said this is when they called the clergy, but a lot of them said, oh, and after they called the clergy, then the cross and the trident appeared. So I don't know which one. Like escalated, yeah.

Whatever. At this point, the clergy have been called. And it didn't work. It didn't work. And after Preece came in, this is when local news started hearing about the activity. Sure. Many reporters started trying to get access into the house. And the tenants, they were like just being hounded to do a segment by everybody

because everyone wanted a shot at this story. Eventually, they made a deal with Channel 7's Today to Night program, which honestly seems a little tabloidy to me, but they were the only ones offering the money. And it wasn't a lot of money, it was like two grand, so split four or five ways, it's like 400 bucks each. It's not a lot.

It probably pays rent for a while though. Sure, yeah. Back then. But it was certainly like, the money isn't why they did it. Right, okay, I see. I saw that the main reason why they agreed to this station was because it was one of the bigger platforms that reached out to them, and they were like,

if they get access to the story, then everyone else will leave us alone. I see. And they wanted to be left alone because I don't even think it occurred to them that anyone would be able to help at this point. So they just were like, okay, come in and do it. And then we want to go back to our normal lives.

Like, and then get out of my house. Yeah. Yeah. Because also at this point, of course, a lot of people would say like, why didn't you leave? Not only do I think they couldn't leave, but literally like big tough gruff men, they were just like, it's a nice house. Why would I leave? Yeah.

And like, he just, whatever. Sometimes he does some weird artwork, it's fine. So anyway, they made a deal with Channel 7. Channel 7 came in, they brought, originally the plan was to bring two cameras. They ended up bringing in seven cameras in total and set them up all around the house and they stayed for an entire week

and just filmed nonstop. Oh my God, a week? They had hundreds of hours of footage by the end. Jesus. And the camera crew, although they stayed for a week, within two hours of being there, they were all believers. No way. And I'll tell you about that next week. No!

Oh my God, this is a two parter! You just knocked everything off. I just knocked over my mugwort, hold on. Wow, Em. I'll tell you all about it. That's a good story. Good story. Thank you. That's my opinion.

I don't know what the hell that thinks. I don't know, ask Reddit. I'm sure they'll love it. Wow, good job. That was, that, wow, a two parter. Doesn't happen a lot. Does not. And it's been a while, I think,

especially with like a ghost story. I feel like they're usually like something. Everything's all humped you do. I'm telling you. Yeah, I guess it is. I guess it is. This new year, new me phase every January, people decide, oh, I'm going to do something about either weight loss or I'm going to do something about feeling better about myself when it comes to food. And that can mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people.

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How can that be? Why? It wasn't that many dollars. And you never really figure out why. It's just like, it kind of keeps getting bigger. Well, I don't know about you, but I really found that to be very stressful whenever I worked with traditional big wireless carriers After years of overpaying, it's it's it's enough people. Okay, we switched the podcast to MIT mobile

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month. New customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees, extra, see Mint Mobile for details. Only then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees, extra, cement mobile for details. Wow. Okay. So I thought we were going to still keep going and then I had to reroute. So here we go. I guess it's my turn.

This is the story of Helene Pruszynski. Pruszynski. Okay. Helene was the youngest of three children born April 5th, 1958 in New York to Chester and Henrietta Pruszynski And she spent her childhood on Long Island, but moved with her parents to Massachusetts in 1972 And by this point her older sister Janet and her eldest brother Chet imagine that Chet Pruszynski that feels like you're hosting the Today Tonight show. It feels like when I'm playing Pruszynski. It feels like when he's playing cards, he does this. You know?

Oh, the lick the finger? Oh, if he's dealer, yeah, yeah. For sure, for sure. So they were already grown. And so she was just at home alone, basically, as an only child. And she was new in town, which was also hard, and 14. And so, you know, it's kind of a tough age.

But Helene was not the type to be intimidated. Her mom said she was a strong person and she got involved immediately. She made things happen. She essentially dove headfirst into high school life. She became a cheerleader, homecoming court, honor roll student, like, did it all, drama, poetry, music. She sang in a choir group or a show choir group.

One of her best friends, Midge said she had a beautiful voice. She was a very good performer. Her voice lit up a room. Right. It's sort of one of those things where like, they're describing this like very popular, successful young woman. And it's sort of like you imagine some people

would probably be like, ugh, I hate her. But it seemed like everyone was like, no, she was just great. Like, you know what I mean? All around, just one of those people that you can't hate, you know? So she seemed like a really, really wonderful person. They even said her laugh was so unique

that they called her a little songbird. Like she laughed like a little bird. It's precious. Yeah, there's a recorded interview she did in high school and she was asked for her philosophy on life. And she said, you should just, I don't know, be yourself and make the best of everything and smile. That's what I do all the time.

Okay, you little Brady Bunch. So so Americana, like, 70s, yeah. And so she really was the type of person who tried everything, but she was very focused on her work at the school paper, where she was the editor. So when she graduated, she went to Wheaton College to study journalism, and she continued to pursue her love for performance by joining the acapella group, and they were called, okay, so this is Wheaton College, they were called the Wheatones. Hell yeah. And so she was the type of person who tried everything, but she was very focused on her work at the school paper, where she was the editor.

So when she graduated, she went to Wheaton College to study journalism, and she continued to pursue her love for performance by joining the acapella group, and they were called, okay, so this is Wheaton College, they were called the Wheatones. Hell yeah. And so she was the type of person who tried everything, but she was very focused on her work at the school paper, where she was the editor. So when she graduated, she went to Wheaton College to study journalism, and she continued to pursue her love for performance by joining the acapella group, and they were called,

okay, so this is Wheaton College, they were called the Wheatones. Hell yeah. And so she was the type of person who tried everything, but she was very focused on her work at the school paper, where she was the editor. So when she graduated, she went to Wheaton College to study journalism, and she continued to pursue her love for performance by joining the acapella group and they were called, okay, so this is Wheaton College, they were called the Wheatones. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah, brother, hell yeah. Where'd you went in acapella group or is that just something I assume about you? I was in acapella sorority. That's what it was, yeah, it was worse than I thought. It was in fact worse, it was worse, yeah. What was the name? Oh no, it was just- Dare I ask? Because it was a sorority, it just had than I thought. It was in fact worse. It was worse, yeah. What was the name?

Oh no, it was just- Dare I ask? Because it was a sorority, it just had a Greek name. Oh, well okay. So you didn't have a nickname or anything? That makes it twice as, three times as bad, I think, because we didn't have a fun name. Yeah. I'd argue maybe a little better. I don't know.

Oh, okay, great. Well then we were New Kappa Epsilon. All right. Okay, okay. Cool. Well then we were new Kappa Epsilon. All right. Okay, okay. Cool. Sounds important. Anyway. So that is who she was.

She was in the soccer club group. She was studying journalism, took it very seriously. Her senior year, she was amped when she got an internship at KHOW Radio in Denver, Colorado. So, you know, it's pretty cool. She's in college, but she gets to go all the way to Denver to spend some time doing an internship. It's kind of like how we went to LA, I guess,

to do internships. And so she went out to Colorado. Her friend and classmate, Kitzy, which I love that name, Kitzy Snow. What is that short? Kitzy Snow? That sounds like something like Bluey's grandmother. Isn't that the cute? Bluey's grandmother. Kitsy Snow. I love it. I think it's great. What is Kitsy short for I wonder? I don't know. Katherine? Kitty? I think

Katherine. Maybe? Snow is a great last name. You can put a lot with snow snow is good. I just read that book, you know Ballad of songbirds and snakes. I loved it about About what's his name? Oh You don't know what I'm talking about. No, not at all. Oh, why are you nodding along? Because I was like you were like, oh that book as if I was supposed to sorry Hunger Games Yeah, okay you okay there we got it. We got to it eventually.

Okay, so Kitzy, love the name, not really sure if it's a nickname or a given name. Kitzy Snow also landed a Denver internship. That's her friend and classmate. So it was very exciting. They got to go to Denver together. So the young women moved across the country at the end of 1979 to Englewood,

a small city within the Denver metropolitan area. And this was about 10 miles south of Denver proper. So Kitsie and Helene lived there with Helene's aunt and uncle. And they kind of like were roommates at her aunt's house. So that worked pretty well. Helene commuted to and from the radio station by bus, and so there was a bus stop six blocks from her aunt's house, and that's where she would go to take the bus to and from her internship. Nice. She put everything into this position.

She was so excited, and although she was an intern, the station's news director, Mike Anthony, said that working with Helene felt more like working with an actual professional journalist because she was so just mature and good at what she did. So all of her colleagues were immediately impressed by her dedication, her drive. She would always ask like, what can I do to improve or to add more to the team? And more than that, she was just a very upbeat person who was very easy to have on the team.

And she kind of endeared herself to everyone. It's also like no easy feat to work for a radio. No, and not as a woman in the 70s either, especially. But I know I've had friends who worked on radio and you have to wake up at like 3 a.m. I mean, that's a... If her whole philosophy is smile through everything, she must have also had tears because like that. Yeah.

And grin and cry. I can't imagine smiling and having a job that was that demanding. And being a woman in the 70s. No, I know. And and, you know, I think part of it, you know, at that age, too, you're like, it's an internship. It's your dream career. It's just so exciting. It might be your only shot as a woman in the 70s. Damn, like her.

And it's hard to get to that point. And it might be your only shot as a woman in the 70s. Damn. Yeah, it's hard. And it's hard to get to that point. And you know, she wanted to, so yeah, I can get it. I mean, listen, as a PA who worked on sets, I was getting up at like 430 in the morning and it was like hell on earth, you know. Did you smile through and through? Like you should have?

I did actually, cause I had to work with people like Kris Jenner and Alexis kept dropping on her fucking omelet. I'm like, what am I gonna do, start crying? That's not gonna help, just kidding. Okay, back to this. So anyway, she really, really likes this internship and they really like her.

And it's just like a very good group of people. On January 16th, 1980, Mike Anthony offered Halina ride home because it was starting to snow. And she asked to leave early to catch the bus to beat the weather. But Mike said, hey, why don't you just wait 15 minutes? I'll just drive you back to your aunt's house. It was really cold, the roads are getting icy.

We know what that's like. So he wanted to make sure she got home safely. But Helene took the same route home from work every day. It was basically, like I said earlier, six blocks to her aunt's house, but from the radio station to the bus stop near there, it was about two blocks. Okay.

And so eight blocks total of walking, and the rest just being a bus ride. And so although she'd only lived in Colorado for a few weeks, she was like very confident about the commute, she'd done it plenty of times, and she's like, you know what, it's fine, I'm just gonna hop on the bus. And like, you don't wanna, you know, if your boss is like, let me give you a ride, like I know that gut instinct to be like, no, like, you know what? It's fine. I'm just going to hop on the bus. And like, you don't want to, you know, if your boss is like,

let me give you a ride. Like, I know that gut instinct to be like, no, no, I got this. It's fine. Like, you know, you don't necessarily want to. And I don't want to impose, but also what's going on here. Well, yeah, I don't want to impose. Also, like, it just feels like a big ask. I don't know. Or I don't know. I don't know how she felt, but she was like, nah, I'm getting on the bus.

So she said bye to Mike, left, and then Mike left like 15 minutes later, like he had planned. At home, Kitsie and Helene's family start becoming anxious because Helene has not gotten back. And remember, the weather's getting worse and worse. And they would have heard from her if she had changed her plans. So now they're thinking like maybe the bus didn't come

because of the weather, so they get in the car, they drive to the Englewood bus stop, but she isn't there. Oh dang, yeah and you would have seen her walking the bus, maybe the bus route right on the way. You'd have seen her on the way. That's a really good point. That's a really good point. So sometime after 8 30 p.m. which was two hours after her normal routine time to come home, which she had pretty much stuck to every day. Her family called Mike Anthony, her boss, and he said, oh, I offered a ride, but she left the station for home hours ago.

Oh, no. So certain now that something's very wrong, Helene's family contacted the police, and then they walked the streets, like you said, along the route, taking a closer look, you know, searching alleys, searching maybe she fell or was it capacitated in some way, got held up somehow in the weather, who knows? So they're looking all over, they have this little search party going and around this time a police officer meets with Helene's aunt and uncle to put in the official missing person report. Kitsie, meanwhile, is chronicling this dread she's feeling in her diary.

Because basically she didn't have another outlet. She wrote, poor Helene, what is she going through? Where is she? Is she all right? I can't believe this is happening. I keep telling Auntie Wanda not to worry or imagine the worst, which is of course what I am doing. And then at 11 p.m., it is so sad.

It really does like make my heart hurt. And then at 11- Sorry, I was gonna say, and also you're right that there was no other outlet back then. Like you can't blog about it or post about it. Like please send good vibes for my friend or- Right, I mean, you can't even just like make a voice memo, right?

I mean, I don't know. I mean, you could probably recall- I mean, you could I guess call another friend and vent to them, but other than that, it's just, you can't even just like make a voice memo, right? I mean, I don't know. You could, I guess, call another friend and vent to them, but other than that, it's just, you have to write it. Well, I also imagine at that point, like they have one landline, you're not gonna use the landline if the police are looking for, you know, your chop probably just stuck in your room,

like fearing the worst. And as someone who always journaled because I had no outlet, I totally feel for that, you know, way of processing. And it was just really, really heartbreaking. At 11 p.m. she wrote, this has been the longest and worst day of my life. I am writing because I don't know what else to do. Now it's 1 a.m. She writes, still nothing. Will this night ever end? At 3 a.m. she wrote that Helene's aunt and uncle hadn't called Helene's parents yet because they didn't want to worry them, but Kitsie thought it was time to contact them

because she'd want to know the situation if this were her family member, if this were her daughter. So finally, around 4 a.m. they called Helene's parents and her parents immediately booked a flight to Colorado arriving that afternoon. So police officers searched those same routes, that bus route that Helene's family and colleagues did. They contacted nearby businesses to see if anyone spotted her walking along through the snow.

Nobody had. So the bus driver himself didn't even recall seeing Helene board the bus. So it was like as if she had just never even been there or like just vanished into thin air. So something happened before she even got to the bus at this point, that's what it seems like. Possibly, or the bus driver just didn't even clock it.

I don't think they were very clear at this point, like he just didn't even notice, you know, it wasn't like anything. Sure, he just sees hundreds of people a day. Yeah, I think it was just like he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. It was just as if she had vanished. And when they asked him, he thought,

well, maybe I didn't, I guess I didn't see her today. Like it just didn't even cross his mind. Sure. And so Bob Scott, the radio station's traffic reporter said, we just kept hoping for some miracle as the night just went on and on and on. So the next morning, a woman was driving with her children

through Daniels Park in Douglas County, and her little boy looked out the window and said, -"Mommy, there's a body." -"Oh, my God." I mean... Oh, my God. I mean... And she looks out, and indeed,

it sure looks like a fucking body, but she's like, I'm not going over there with my kids. So she goes and finds a road worker and of course, his pre cell phones. So she pulls over and she asked him to please go check and you know, he's more familiar with this area. And so he goes in, it's called Daniel's Park. It's this thousand acre huge park. It's surrounded by suburbs just outside of Denver,

but it feels like disconnected from the city. It's very scenic and like, it has like bison and shit. Yeah, yeah, woodsy. And so they're like these beautiful plains, but they can be very, very cold in January. So the road worker left and called 911 to report what the woman had seen.

And when first responders arrived, they had indeed found a body. And unfortunately it was remains of the young woman that they had been looking for. So she had apparently been killed and abandoned recently in the park. Douglas County authorities reached out to see if anyone had reported a missing woman,

which of course, they immediately knew this must be Helene. And the Englewood authorities asked Bob Scott, the traffic guy at the radio station, if he would go with them to the park to see if the remains belonged to Helene. Okay. So as a local reporter,

he had been in pretty continuous contact with the police through the night about Helene, which is why I kind of like quoted him earlier. And he knew she was the only recently missing young woman from the area that would like fit this description. So he basically knew in his gut that it was her and he felt he had no choice but to go confirm it himself. So the planes were covered in snow, the ground was frozen.

I mean, it's mid winter. Bob walks with the police to see Helene where she had been found. And it's just, he says, it's the worst thing I ever had to do and it has never left my mind. I can't imagine. Yeah, just so, so, so troubling.

Yeah, just so, so, so troubling. Police arrived at Helene's home in Colorado at 1 30 p.m. to break the news. And Kitsie actually wrote in her journal that she didn't cry. She just started shaking and couldn't stop shaking. Oh, my God. And also, like, not only because of the realization of what's going on, but the adrenaline dump. That's that's an adrenaline dump and then a new adrenaline surge. And then another one, right?

Cause you're, and you're up all night, like just in this heightened vigilance. Your nervous system is just full fight or flight. Oh my Lord. Yeah. So I can only imagine just how, what a shock to the system this would be. So Helene's parents arrived later that afternoon, their flight came in and Kitszie wrote that Helene's mother

knew Helene was dead when she saw the priest at the house comforting the family. Oh, my God, it's like when you see that, like, that... When they open the door and there's a police officer there. And they have their hats off, and you're like, -"Oh, my God." -"Oh, my God." It's just like that deep, core chill. Yeah. Yeah.

So, back in Massachusetts, Helene's friend Kimberly turned on the news and saw that someone named Helen, sick, seek, however you say that, S-I-C, Helen Przezinski was killed in Colorado. And of course she's like, well, my friend Helene Przezinski is in Colorado right now. And like, of course you don't want to believe it because it's like, well, technically it was spelled wrong

or pronounced wrong. But unfortunately we don't know, or we know that's not true. So she wanted to believe it wasn't Helene, but of course in her gut she also figured that must be what was going on. Pretty quickly the Colorado Bureau of Investigation responded to the crime scene. Investigators initially believed that this might have been

a personal attack because Helene had been discovered naked from the waist down, except for the socks on her feet. Oh. Her mouth had been gagged, her hands were bound behind her back. The ground had frozen just after Helene was killed, which meant that the killer's boot prints had been preserved perfectly in the soil. So that was a good thing.

Two sets of prints led to Helene's body. It just makes it so dark. It's like two sets went to Helene's body, so she had to walk there, you know, by force, presumably. But she had consciously walked there to the spot where she had killed, but then only the killer's boot prints were on the way out. There were also frozen tire impressions nearby,

likely from the killer's vehicle. And so the autopsy that they did revealed that Helene was raped before the murderer stabbed her in the back nine times until she died of blood loss and trauma to her lungs. Detectives noted the attacker seemed to carry a lot of rage. One investigator called it a crime of passion, but Helene didn't even live in Colorado for a month, right?

So it's not like she had some longstanding, you know, beef with someone there. It just, it was so strange. It didn't really fit. And so there wasn't a lot of time to like forge a strong bond with someone that would feel so passionately, at least that her family and friends could figure. So is there sorry, was there a like killer on the loose or something?

And she was just an at random victim? I mean, no, as far as I know, I mean, the reporter or the yeah, the reporter from the radio station said he knew of only one recently missing young woman. Right. So I imagine it was just her. So it seemed the only people Helene really ever associated with aside from her aunt, uncle and kidsy were her colleagues at the radio station who were all ruled out as suspects.

One woman reported driving by the scene of the crime late at night and seeing a man kneeling behind his vehicle. And she noticed that he had his hazards on and actually turned to look at her as she went by. Nightmare fuel. Yeah. Investigators employed a hypnotherapist to try and assist the woman to describe this man.

They released a composite sketch, but it didn't bring in any new leads. And even if the sketch was the person who killed Helene, it was basically a white man with a mustache. So it was kind of like, oh, in the 70s, 80s, it's not really like that far off of the average person. And so it wasn't exactly a unique description, but they didn't really have any leads. And the case basically went cold, which was so shocking to me when I heard about the footprints being recovered, perfect footprints and all that,

you know, it just feels like, oh, we got them, and then, no. So, of course, Helene's friends and family were not gonna let this go cold on their watch. And so they basically took up the mantle, trying to find out who took Helene from them. Kimberly LaTourette said that even as Helene's friends grew up, got married, had children,

Helene remained part of their lives and they just actively kept her, I guess, almost spiritually as part of their day-to-day lives as they grew up, you know, which I think is really sweet. Kimberly said that people all have hobbies they enjoy, but her only hobby was finding Helene's killer. So- Okay, Christine.

Yeah, I was gonna say, so one of the friends took it a little- Good for her. I love it. Like you need a friend with every hobby. You got one who likes cooking. You like one who likes cooking. Right, right, right.

One who's gonna solve your crime, your death. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? We all need that. I need that friend, 100%. And you have it. I like it. And you have it. I like to think, and I have it, yeah.

I don't know what I'm capable of, but I do know that I will find out. I'm afraid to know what you're capable of. Give me a 3 a.m. and... You break into Wallace one more time and you never know. It's over for you you. It's over. So her friend was like, fuck this. I am not letting this go cold.

And I just love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know, I wish she didn't have to come to this obviously, but she turned this into her hobby. She felt like Helene's parents shouldn't have to take on this burden.

And so she's like, you know what? Her friends are gonna do it. And I just- Damn, what a good homie. When I like, I tell you, I've just been crying. I'm like, this is just so poignant, you know? And it's like such a powerful thing to do for somebody's family.

She would have been a menace on TikTok. I know, I know. She would have done numbers being like, everyone help me, we're gonna figure it out in an hour. Let's gather together and figure this out. So, anyway, this was how, uh... things were progressing as the case technically was going cold.

There were many continual efforts over the years to find answers for Helene and her family. The radio station where Helene had worked routinely ran stories about the case. They were regularly encouraging listeners to come forward with any information they may have. I mean, that must be very haunting for them as a workplace too.

Like what a brutal, horrific thing to have happen in your own office. And so they continued, they even actually put out a $10,000 reward for any information. And then on the 26th anniversary, so we're now 26 years later, Kimberly and the original Harmony Choir group

that she was a part of from their high school flew to Colorado to retrace Helene's commute on foot. Oh my gosh. Kimberly like went and gathered the troops of the new choir and like they all went out to look for clues. I love girlhood. It's like, we're gonna fucking figure it out.

There is nothing, it can't stop or it's unstoppable. You know? Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. It's just beautiful. So they went on foot and of course, this caught the attention of some local media. They featured the trip on numerous news stations and they were hoping, you know,

this would bring more attention to the case and maybe trigger someone's memory. But unfortunately, it just didn't work that way. Kimberly worked then with a software developer to build a website when, you know, that kind of started becoming more of the norm about Helene's case and they programmed what she called traps into each page. Now this is where I started taking personal notes. I was like, now tell me more about these traps, you said. OM. I feel like you would, I don't know, I can't tell which person you are.

I think you're this person more than the organizing the original detective agency. Oh yeah, no. I think you're more the, I'm the crazed person behind the computer who's gonna really crack into it. I just did it on the internet last night, probably not really formally in a way that I was supposed to. Yes, I think I'm about to hear a lot more about how you would have operated. Interesting. Yeah, well, so here's what she did. She got a web designer and they built this, or a software developer, they built this website about Helene's case

and they programmed traps into each page. The web, I know the website recorded the IP address of everyone who visited the website as well as how long they spent on each page. And she hoped that maybe there would be like a weird data pattern where like they would like keep revisiting a certain picture or like, you know, maybe somebody suspicious would be trolling the site. I know.

I would have never even thought to do that first of all that girl's a god damn genius. Women in STEM folks. Seriously. But there was an SVU episode forever ago when Stabler was pretending to be a pedophile. I remember that one. Yes. There was like the only way his like a parole officer would only know if he stared at pictures for a certain amount of seconds longer than most people or something like that. Like it's like your eye tracking.

He looked at it. Yeah. Eye tracking. So I wonder if there's some similar science here of like, oh, if someone was fawnin' a little too longly at things? It was just the time. I mean, I don't think they had like eye tracking software. No, I didn't think that, but I wonder if it was like clicking on one page and looking at that one too long

versus other things. Exactly. So it would time like how long you were on each page, like how long an IP address was lingering on each page, which would be bad for me because I just leave my tabs open all day, but you know, whatever. But no, so they were looking for any suspicious data patterns, I just think this is so important

to also tell because it's like what a story behind the scenes of like how people dedicate their lives to their friends. What like, yes, on top of that though, like what a, like get this girl into an office to come up with new creative ideas to solve crime. Like, what a new,

I haven't even heard, for all of- It's a very creative process. For all the stories we've covered, I've never heard anyone else looking into something by doing this. Not like a layperson, certainly. No, no. So maybe the FBI, but not...

I wonder how often this process is being used elsewhere, because this feels like an original thought to me. It does too, and I wonder if this is just a more normal thing that I don't know about. But also, I think this was, I mean, this would have been 26 years... So let's see, so that would have been like, oh six. They should have named the process after her.

Mid aughts, you know? And so it's like the fact that she even found a software developer to do that when like back then you and I wouldn't have even known such a thing could be possible. No, I haven't heard of. You know, nowadays sure it's different, but like, wow. I mean, I just found that so powerful.

But of course I have the bad news that there was no suspicious data pattern or anything of that sort. But I thought, I have the bad news that there was no suspicious data pattern or anything of that sort, but I thought that was just worth including because wow. So anyway, she had hoped for this to point some spotlight at someone, but no such luck. So time just continued ticking on with no new leads. Meanwhile, Kimberly and her team are regularly keeping in contact with Colorado authorities to make sure that they are not forgetting about the case. And they just have to kind of wait for a break.

So investigators in 1980 had meticulously recorded evidence from the crime scene. Although DNA wouldn't be used as evidence in a criminal case for more than six years, they would often collect, I know we've talked about this, but like collect saliva or semen wandering, you know, like maybe this could help down the line or hair follicles, that kind of thing. And, you know, not even knowing that in some years this would be like such a huge piece

of evidence for the case. I know. I love when they think of that. Thank God. And so they did collect bodily fluids. It's suspected that they were saliva or semen that had been preserved during Helene's autopsy in case someday they could aid the investigation. And years later, the sample was identified as semen and investigators searched for a

match within CODIS, the Combined DNA Index System. And so if there had been a match, it would have pinged. But unfortunately, there was no match in CODIS. And that was just fully maddening, right? Because it's like, oh, there's a break with this huge new technological ability. And then it's like, ding, zero matches, you know, still nothing. Well, I can't imagine a bigger kick to the head of like, oh, now we can use it and it led to nothing. And it meant nothing. Yeah, it's like roller coaster after roller coaster. And so it's just maddening.

And so they just had to hope like something would happen or they would have to wait for, which sucks, wait for the killer to commit another crime and then enter the prison system and have their DNA checked, you know? And how do we even know if this guy's still alive or maybe? Exactly, exactly. There's no way to know. And so in 2015, a new, and that,

I will say that was early days of DNA. So that was their only way of doing it, right? Nowadays we have all of the genealogy resources. We have people on civilians and police force doing much more in depth. We have all sorts of digital footprints to work off of. Digital footprints, exactly. All sorts of things. So back then there was just no matching CODIS and that was kind of it.

But fortunately in 2015, they formed a new cold case unit and they appointed its own detective who oversaw a civilian team of doctors, lawyers and other dedicated professionals who started completely from scratch. Oh, wow. So they went back over these 35 years of evidence and reports including false hope in 1984 when two serial killers in Florida, Henry Lee Lucas and Otis Tool. I don't know if you remember them. I covered them way back when, very,

very infamous guys, really fucked up. They were in Florida, they confessed to the crime. And the two of them described kidnapping Helene at a bus stop and stabbing her in a field. Well that sounds pretty fucking spot on, but then one of them said they shot her in the head and then the police just figured they were lying to get more notoriety because they were like pretty famous. And so they just didn't take the confession seriously. Now they'd led detectives during questioning into revealing information that they then in turn like spun as their own story. Now 31 years since that false lead had happened, investigators are like, shit, we don't have anything new. We need to like basically go work with all this old evidence.

So for four more years, they were just combing over the same old same old and like not getting anywhere. At some point, you like I don't know how people that run cold cases do it because day after day, it would be crazy making like,, and there's gotta be an answer. So I guess that's what like keeps you moving. I know, and it's like, you get those breadcrumbs, right? And then you get sent back to square one, but then maybe you get an inch in the right direction. But it's like, oh my God, it has to be just so,

in some ways, just like mind numbing. It's like, how many angles can you look at this from? How many rejections can you get, you know, when you're trying to do something? Yeah, and and that's kind of how they felt until 2019 four years into this little cold case project. Yes, what? Tell me We now have our beautiful

ancestry Yeah Genealogy all our good genetic family trees, and all of these motherfucking serial killers getting plucked right out of their cozy recliners and plopped in jail, you fucking assholes. And you know how, you know after Golden State Killer, all the other serial killers were shaking in their boots. Shake, oh, that's the best feeling.

It's like, you're next, motherfucker. You know there's someone out there right now shaking in their boots. Good. Fucking good. Fuck them. So anyway, 2019, they have a different angle finally to use with the evidence.

So they partnered with a DNA data agency. We don't know which one, but they use commercial DNA databases like Ancestry and 23andMe to build a genetic family tree that could lead to either a relation or the individual whose DNA they collected from Helene's body. So the search led to a woman whose known daughter's

genetic profiles did not match the sample, but interviews with her relatives and a newspaper article about a mother-son reunion revealed that she actually had two sons who were adopted when she was a young woman. One son's DNA was already in CODIS and he was not a match, so investigators looked at his younger brother, Curtis Allen White. Uh oh.

Curtis had, you know when I say all three names that ding ding ding. I know, I'm buckled in. Yeah, don't worry. This guy's in prison. I know if you got three names you're fishy as shit on this show. Yeah, this, we don't give you much of a, much leeway with those three names. We don't. And not to be confused with Jeremy Allen White, by the way. I guy from Shameless. He's very big right now. Oh, wait, that actor. I'm so I'm like, oh, that guy. Oh, the guy from the bear. I'm sorry. I thought you meant like a literal bear. And I was like, oh, I was like, was this from a story we covered? Oh, OK. OK. The bear idiot. You don't get the bear.

There's one of you who and there's Jeremy Allen White. The bear. What about cocaine bear? 31, okay. Anyway, so they go into this and they figure out there's one son remaining. So it's, odds are, could be Curtis Allen White with those three names.

So Curtis had served a short prison sentence prior to Helene's murder for raping a woman at Knife Point. Okay, already like seems like the right kind of guy. He had been paroled in Colorado where he still lived in 1980 and then using fingerprint records, investigators followed Curtis to Florida where he lived and worked in a rural community

as a truck driver going by a new name, James Curtis Clanton. Hmm. So, now it's November 2019, and they're making these connections. Colorado Detectives spent six days following James trying to acquire abandoned DNA. And I love these stories. I'm sure someday there will be a way

that they do it smoothly and like... But now, knowing that they have to dig through trash or follow them to the food court and then steal their straw, every time it gets me, I'm like, these are the biggest breaking cases and sending some of the most vile people to prison and it's gonna be all over Nancy Grace

and they're just in the food court at Sabaro taking the greasy pizza out of the trash. Like, put this in a bag. That's the kind of detective I wanna be. I don't wanna like- Like on the trash. Like, put this in a bag. I mean, that's the kind of detective I want to be. I don't want to like- Like on the ground. Save people from a bank heist. I don't want to-

Yeah, no, oh yeah. I just want to go get your dirty chopsticks out of the trash. That's it. And like find clues on it. Yeah, I just want to find the clues. You do what you want after that. There's something so satisfying about it.

It's like, wow. Like who knew in the eighties that like one day you could literally just take someone's straw out of the trash and fucking put them in prison. I mean, it's just unbelievable. So anyway, all that to say, they were doing this abandoned DNA search and here's a nice point where our researcher

has put in a little info that I may not have thought to include because in my mind, it's already makes so much sense, but I think sometimes that doesn't translate. So here's what it says, abandoned DNA or abandoned samples, as they're sometimes called, refers to DNA samples that can be legally collected by law enforcement without a warrant

based on where the samples are left slash collected. So for example, cigarettes left in public ashtrays, a toothbrush in the trash can on a curb, a fork in a restaurant. So anywhere in a public space that doesn't have like reasonable expectation of privacy, basically, is where you can take something like that, including a trash bin on the side of the road, because that happens a lot too. That's how they got, I believe that's one of the ways they got, who was the guy?

Either Golden State Killer or one of the other like really, really big, scary ones recently was going through their curbside trash. Anyway, so that is what that means. And it's considered very controversial. You can see why, right? Cause like on the surface it's like, controversial. You can see why, right? Because like on the surface, it's like, oh yeah, we're getting clues for bad guys. But like, you

know, you're also kind of, it just feels a little shady. There's also the chain of custody situation where you're basically getting a sample out of the trash, and then you have to certify that this is like actually the persons and it's there's a lot of chain of custody issues it's it's a bit controversial that's fair but I will I will say we're in a world to hurt when time travel exists and all this and you can go back to any time and grab DNA to you know what I mean? Why don't you just go back and see what happened? Oh that too!

That would really work. Oh man, we'd make a great team. See, you have ideas and I have ideas and your ideas are the ones that self crimes and then I decide where we're gonna eat afterwards. Okay, thank you. No, you decide where we're gonna eat and then we'll take the sample of DNA from there,

from the trash can. Oh, I see, okay, great, okay. What could go wrong? So this same chain of custody is of course required for regular DNA samples, but like unconventional samples like napkins and like forks and straws and shit, or like diapers or whatever it is, like still kind of like a harder thing to claim is like a perfectly sterile sample, you know? It's kind of in and of itself an oxymoron.

And of course then there's some legal concerns about like when things get blurred and mixed up. But still courts continually find that it is not a violation of the Fourth Amendment, which protects US citizens from illegal searches and seizures. So it is not considered, you not considered conflicting with the amendment. In fact, the investigators had followed an earlier lead in another state, but abandoned DNA they collected from a suspect there ruled him out as the killer.

So they'd already done this. Wow. And it turned out it wasn't the guy. Imagine being like, what, are you going through my trash? Like, woo! Yeah, so that guy was off the hook, but now they were certain that this guy was their man.

So, 1998, James was arrested for domestic violence and they were surprised to see that his arrest photo even matched the composite sketch from the hypnosis drawing. I mean, ding ding ding. Even though they thought like, oh, it's so vague. It's like, oh no, actually this is like striking. Wow, she did is like striking. Wow, she did a good job. So they obviously needed real physical evidence beyond just like he matched the description.

So every day James left home early in the morning in his truck and after work, he stayed inside all night. So they were trying to figure out how best to get ahold of this subtly, discreetly. I love how it's like, okay, he's an introvert, what do we do? Oh no, what's the bookworm protocol? He never leaves the house.

Until he finally went to a local bar where the bartender served his beer mugs and the owner turned the mugs over to investigators. Oh yeah, because it's not his property. So that was... Yeah, any DNA you leave in a public establishment. Well, even then, like the mug itself that you left your DNA on is like not up for you to decide. It's like the bar owner too, right?

Yeah, yeah. So pretty wild. So they gave that to the police and they were able to run this sample. And wouldn't you know it, it matched the DNA collected from Helene's body 39 years ago. Wow. Okay. I know. So Colorado detectives approached James and asked him to go to a local police station to answer questions about a major insurance fraud case they were investigating. Sneaky, sneaky. So James went with them voluntarily. But when they showed him a photo of Helene,

he said he had nothing more to say and requested an attorney. So he's been duped. Uh-oh. The police put him under immediate arrest for first degree murder and kidnapping. And then they extradited him to Colorado for indictment. The investigators informed James of the DNA evidence they had on

him. Of course, that must have been crushing. And on the six hour flight from Florida, James confessed all. Man, he was like, I'm seeing the likelihood of me getting out of this. It's a hot zero. One more push in the right direction and he spilled his guts. Yeah. For six hours, he spoke openly about what he had done to Helene as well as other details of his life and former crimes. And he insisted that he never murdered anyone else. Congratulations fucking Lations.

Woohoo. When asked why he chose Helene, James, this makes me want to vomit, James said it was fate. Fate? I would strangle him if I were her mother. Riddle me that. I would strangle him. What are you talking about? Fate.

Like fuck off. He said he drove by her at the bus stop, did a U-turn, confronted her with a knife and tied her hands behind her back with her purse strap. He told her he was kidnapping her for money and she told him her parents had none. Even when James revealed his true intent to rape her, he hid his plan to kill her, of none. Even when James revealed his true intent to rape her,

he hid his plan to kill her, of course. Of course. And he told her he would abandon her in Daniels Park and make her walk home when he was finished. Oh. James said that Helene was very friendly to him and he could tell she hoped she could convince him not to harm her.

What an evil fucking monster. What an evil, evil, evil piece of shit. Evil. James described dissociating from his body as he stabbed Helene, something which he said he did through his life since childhood. Oh, okay. Interesting. Let's talk, let's speak on that. I hope he speaks to someone about that.

Yeah. He said he hurt Helene because he was angry. Remember when they said this was like a crime of passion? Yeah. So he didn't know her at all. He just saw her on the street. But he said he did it because he was angry the same way he had hurt insects and animals

when he was a child. Oh my God, okay. He said, I just kind of step out of myself and watch myself do that. That's pretty much the basis of everything I've ever done. I'm just mad all the time You know what so scared of this at least you're fucking honest I guess now how do you as a as a police officer hear this and not have

Gutteral reactions like you and I do how do you not go? Oh my god in front of them But I don't know how you like I think what you you, Olivia Benson, keep it calm? How would I do it? I would dissociate from my body and wash myself. I feel you have to. Like, I literally dissociate as well. Not obviously not to hurt anybody, but like, I know that feeling of feeling like, oh, I'm not even in my body. So, like, I feel like if I were receiving that news, I would have to just go somewhere

else, like, float away. I think I, I mean, I obviously don't have it in me to do that job. But I think one of the telltale signs is that I would not be able to have a poker face. I don't know how other people do it. I know. And you hear about PTSD that these people come out with after retirement. I mean, it must just be so much, so heavy. And so when the news broke that Helene's killer was finally in custody, it was sort of bittersweet for everyone who had waited these 40 years.

Helene's sister Janet reported being overwhelmed with emotion. She was about 70 at the time, I believe. And she was relieved the killer was caught. But of course, this wouldn't, you know, change the last 40 years. And her parents and her brother Chet, all three had passed away before they ever found out. Well, they never got to know. No, no. I mean, I hope they know in the afterlife, you know, or reconnect somehow. But yeah, they never got to see that justice, which sucks. Bob and Mike from the radio station had wondered

if they'd even be alive to see this killer caught or if he'd ever be caught. And they were both amazed and relieved to hear he was finally answering for what he had done. Cece Hunt, who was the director of the Harmony Choir Group, said, it was a relief, but there's never closure on something that's so heinous. And here's Kimberly, our BFF extraordinaire, who said, we'll never heal completely, but now we can soften the edges

around the broken pieces of our hearts and be with Helene in a different way now, not being buried in her murder, but being buried back into the joy and the spirit of her life. In February 2020, 40 years since he kidnapped and murdered Helene, 63 year old James pleaded guilty in Colorado and accepted a life sentence with a possibility for parole in 20 years at the age of 83. Mike said in an interview that he was happy that the people who loved Helene

wouldn't have to endure a trial. Mike is the guy at the radio station. And at the sentencing, Helene's family and friends delivered statements about the impact of Helene's death on their lives, including her high school boyfriend, Jonathan Schaler, who described the nightmares, the trauma of losing his high school girlfriend and having nightmares after the murder. I mean, for a kid, you know, or for a college-age kid, it's just very, it

just must be so traumatizing. Janet said, we knew Helene was going places. Her warm personality, friendly nature, and strong convictions gave us pride in all she did. We knew she was destined for great things in the future. They played a slideshow featuring photos of Helene. They actually had a recording of her singing with her college acapella club. What was it? Kappa Nu, Kappa Nu?

Nu, Kappa, epsilon. Oh, that was closer than I thought. You're like, no, you weren't. Yeah, you did a good job. We're having heard it once an hour ago. Yeah, you're good. And knowing not a single Greek letter. That's true.

So they played, it was really, really sweet. They played a recording of her singing with her college acapella club. Wheaton College granted Helene her degree posthumously and they established the Helene Przezinski Leadership Award in her honor. And it's granted each year to a senior who demonstrates exceptional leadership in the Wheaton community. A friend who knew Helene in college said, if you were walking across campus and passed Helene, your day was made better by seeing her smile, even if you didn't stop and talk with her. Her enthusiasm was infectious. She was caring, patient, and wanted to help others. And the scholarship itself

is actually funded by donations, which is pretty cool. So you can give directly via the Wheaton College donation page if you have any calling to do that. So at Hamilton, Wenham Regional High School, the Helene Przezinski Scholarship is also presented to a student quote, for the most valuable contribution to a music and or drama production. Wow. And I feel like that must be quite an honor to anyone who receives that. So that is the Helene Przezinski story. Very, very tragic, but like thankfully solved finally.

Yeah, at least solved. And it like the hurdles it took because sometimes they actually had advanced. They had things for technology in advance and that it still didn't work. But not enough. Yeah. At that point, I would have checked out of the cold case. I'm like, well, I don't know anymore. The dead ends just keep coming. It must be so hard to pick back up, you know, each time.

It honestly must be really exciting when a case does actually have a new lead. And it's like, holy shit, we got one. I know, and I feel like it must just bring back the motivation and then when you hit square one again, it must just crush you. Yeah, the dopamine ups and downs must be crazy. Oh man, well, good story. I secretly was wondering if this was gonna turn

into a part two, and then we would both have a part two for next episode. Oh, we've never done that. No, we've never done that. I very rarely do part twos. I try to get everything in in one episode. I never did until I suddenly did, and then I did a bunch, and then I never did them again. So it feels like very chaotic, just impulsively.

For a while there, I was doing them. But yeah, I can't wait for yours. That was quite a cliffhanger a cliffhanger I know well I was gonna try to do it all in one and I was like that's just gonna take up too much time so I agree because it's already over two hours oops that was my fault sorry for the long intro well if you'd like to hear us keep on chatting you can pop on over to yappy hour I'll probably cry there too that's fine I'll cry too and that's why we drink