And That's Why We Drink - E424 Mount Shasta Synchronicities and Beelzebubbe’s Little Matzo Ball

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

It’s Episode 424 and we’re glowing in the daylight savings lighting. This week Em brings us Part two of the exorcisms of Nicola Aubry where the devil is so camp. Then Christine covers the heartbreaking Part two of Billie-Jo Jenkins’ case. And are we reclaiming ‘manifesto’? …and that’s why we drink! For a list of resources or ways to help those affected by the fires in Los Angeles visit: bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp ! The Pour Decisions Tour is back on the road! Get your tickets today at andthatswhywedrink.com/live ! ______________________ Listeners of And That's Why We Drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting FayNutrition.com/DRINK. Make progress towards a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in 2 minutes at http://chime.com/DRINK Banking services and debit card provided by The Bancorp Bank, N.A. or Stride Bank, N.A.; Members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe® and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out-of-network ATMs. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince! Visit Quince.com/drink for free shipping and 365-day returns. Check out the Fits Everybody Collection at https://www.skims.com/drink #skimspartner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are so many perks to working in audio, having a microphone and being able to say whatever you want, riffing, you know, bantering with each other. It's just a dream. It's my dream. If you're doing what you love to do, there's nothing better than being surrounded by people who love it as much as you do. And if you own your own business, you want to hire employees who love what they do to boost the overall success of your business. Plus make it a pretty great place to work. But how do you find passionate employees who are good fit for all of your roles? ZipRecruiter.

And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash drink. ZipRecruiter is the hiring site employers prefer the most based on G2. How fast does ZipRecruiter Smart Technology start showing your job to qualified candidates? Hmm, let me think, immediately. ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology works fast to find top talent so you don't waste time or money.

Hire experienced people who are excited about what they do with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Here we are again.

Well, I don't know how this happened. I don't know how we got here. If you are wondering how we got here earlier, and looked at me and said, I look completely different, but apparently now we're just back at it again. You said I look like I'm- Did you get a spray tan? No, no. I mean, maybe it's, I put an upside down box on my bed

and put my laptop on it. That's the only change that I've made. So- It's a magical box, I'll tell you. There's something going on. You know what? Maybe it is. Maybe I'm just glowing today. I have no idea, but apparently I look like I'm in the office? Question mark, whatever that's supposed to mean.

But in the show, the office, not like in an office. OK, OK. I wasn't sure which one. I just kind of took both and ran with it. Are you just wearing makeup? Is that what's happening here? Uh, not really. OK, I wasn't sure which one. I just kind of took both and ran with it. Are you just wearing makeup? Is that what's happening here? They're not really okay. I don't know. I mean, you know what I'm doing I'm in my room again, but I've been there for the last several days, but maybe it's the time. Oh, maybe this is not a joke

It's gonna sound like a joke daylight savings time. Mmm two nights ago. Maybe now that the Sun is like out later Maybe just the lighting. Maybe, so I mean. This room was built to be in, you know, back then when they would build room, maybe they probably still do, but like build houses to have light at certain times a day. Oh really?

Yeah, and so like the parlor, for example, in a house would have morning sunlight versus, you know, the kitchen which is just dark. Cause it's for service. Well, it's working for you, girl. It's working. I don't. Anyway, yeah.

So I don't know, maybe that's what's happening, but I feel like. I think you're onto something. There's really something going on and I don't know what it is. I mean, the mystery is fine to remain a mystery, but. Really? Cause I just would like to keep talking about it.

It's very fun for me. I'm sure I would also love to know exactly why I look so good and want to keep that rolling. Yeah. Glowing. I mean, I'm sure any and several, honestly, I'm sure several of our advertisers would be thrilled to be hearing this

because I feel like we do have several advertisers that pertain somehow to my physical face, shoulders up appearance. And I'm not going to shout at any brands cause that is not somehow to my physical shoulders up appearance. And I'm not gonna shout at any brands because that is not what I'm trying to do here. I'm just saying, hey, maybe we'll all find out the next time we do an ad and we go, oh, that's why you look that way.

I think you're onto something. That might be it. So anyway, hi, Em, how are you today? Well. You look so- Shut up, okay. Hanzoptic. Oh man, by the way- Well, you look so... Shut up, okay. Zoptic. Oh man, by the way...

You look so charming. Well, I didn't mean to say charming. That's why I stopped. Did you mean to say it with a question mark at the end? No, I didn't. I didn't mean to say it with a stutter in the middle. I promise you. I meant to say you look dashing.

That's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Well, I'm wearing a new shirt. I'm very excited about it. If you'd like to see. Can I see it? Is it just blank or does it? It says Bubby's little matzah ball.

I just called you Zoftik and you're wearing that shirt. That makes it so much better. I know. You did channel the shirt earlier cause you did say the word Zoftik in an ad. To be clear why I'm calling you that ever since. Yes, I was making a point that my grandmother has called people in the family that. And that makes sense why the shirt kind of channeled that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I speaking of my grandma, apparently she heard one of our last episodes where we made a joke about my other grandmother passing away. She almost killed our social media manager, Megan. Like she almost put out a hit on Megan, our social media. Not really, not really. My grandma sent a message to the, and that's why we drink Facebook page,

to say, why is my death so funny? Actually, what she said, Em, there was a real posted about how your other grandma died. And I said, I made some like stupid sick joke about your grandma dying. In the time, it was fine. It felt funny in the moment, and then I forgot that it would show up

on the social media, of course. And then it did, and your grandma DM'd our social media manager, Megan, said, I didn't know my death would be so funny. And it was like the most like, put you in your place grandma message. Megan basically said I'm never posting again I'm leaving this physical plane. Goodbye. This is the end and the fact that it has an auto message and it was a freaking like It was like sorry, we're busy right now

But it was like a gravestone and a ghost and I'm like, oh my god now grandma's gonna think we're like, you know Okay, more mockery about it, you know anyway, but I'm like, oh my god, now grandma's gonna think we're like, you know, making more mockery about it. You know, anyway, but I was like, wait a minute. Your grandma's not even dead. It's obviously not about her. Doesn't she know you have another grandma? I think she knows that she takes the spotlight often and so why would I talk about anyone else ever? Somebody asked me, okay, I'm glad you said that because that confirms my theory because somebody said to me, well, I think it was Blazer Alexander, somebody rational in my life,

and there were only a couple. And one of them said, well, doesn't she know that Em has another grandmother? And I was like, yeah, but I don't think that crossed her mind. Like, I don't think it occurred to her that it would be another one. I think she knows she's like, she-

Being discussed. I think she knows that when grandparents are discussed, she's gonna have her name thrown in. And so she was like, obviously. I do say it a lot. I do like her name a lot. And I mean that fully sincerely. This is no insult, ma'am.

Let's put it this way. I'm so sorry. I feel like I really dropped the ball here. Let's put it this way. She's Linda's mother. So. Yeah, exactly. That's also how I explained it to Alexander in Blaze. My mother, I think, is shocked every time

she doesn't get mentioned in an episode. I'm sure her mother's also like, well, if you're talking about grandparents, obviously I'm on the field. I'm ready to put me in coach, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, hi, Grandma. The right one.

Megan's never gonna post this again. Megan's never gonna post any content about your grandma again. Well, this will show if she actually listens to the show or just watches the clips on Facebook. That's so scared. Well, this will show if she actually listens to the show or just watches the clips on Facebook. That's true. You know what?

Great point. Because then maybe you'll get a fricking text. Finally, yeah. Finally. I didn't even get a text. I got cold-shouldered. I love that it went straight to the top, which is Megan.

I like how she probably thought it was going straight to me and then still didn't text me and just say like, hey. Yeah, bizarre, yeah. She's just too savvy. She's just on the gram, you know. Why do you drink this week, Christine? Oh man, well, you know, I've been doing a lot of like meditating and things like that.

And as you know, I go through these spiritual ADHD side quests and I was on, I'm on a new one this, I'm on a new one this on a new one this month not really but I've been really focusing on meditation and so a lot of like synchronicities have started coming up and it's really wild and weird and fun and so long story short long story medium we were we have a trip this week and we're going to Monterey and San Luis Obispo. Am I finally saying it right? I've been practicing. Sure, it's pretty good. Can you say it? I say San Luis Obispo. San Luis Obispo.

Okay, thank you. So anyway, we're going to Monterey and San Luis Obispo and then Portland, Seattle. And like originally, because they're kind of like a week apart, I was thinking, oh, well then I'll just fly back. And it didn't occur to me how close they were. So I had to make the decision, like do I fly back for 24 hours? That doesn't make sense in a different time zone and then fly back.

So I decided to stay, but I was like, well, what to do? What to do? And I was like, I've been wanting to do a little solo like retreat type thing where I can take my little meditations and writing and go in the woods and so I just started like Following the little path. Mm-hmm, and I was like, oh my god There's Mount Shasta. Oh Shasta I think Shasta as someone who hasn't checked recently

So I thought you said someone who has a blue check and I was like, wow well then in that case Well, I'll be using that for the rest of my life, but no. Like that, we've never used that before, we should. But anyway, because the soda was called Shasta, I think, which is why I'm confused anyway. My brother keeps whatever, doesn't matter. So I was like, ooh, I should go there. And you know how I'm like super into trains?

I do. Well, I looked up like places to stay and of you know how I'm like super into trains? Mm-hmm, I do. I looked up like places to stay, and of course as I'm going through, there is a place there where you can, and I'm only saying this because I've already left at this point, where you can stay in a railroad caboose. Oh, hell yeah.

And I was like, uh, yes please. Turns out that they only had one night available. So I basically have to- That's fine, that's all you need. Yeah, that's what I thought. I have to leave at like 6 a.m. and then like drive off. Anyway, it's a whole thing. But it was all very stressful,

but now it's all booked and I'm very excited. And then I was telling Blaze about it and I was like, you know, and the other thing is, this feels right. Like I wanted to do some solo retreat stuff and just kind of be by myself. And I was like, and know, and the other thing is I just, this feels right. Like I wanted to do some like solo, like retreat stuff and just kind of be by myself. And I was like, and all these synchronicities keep happening. That makes me feel like it's the right path. And then literally we had all these boxes that I had picked up from UPS,

like our fan mail basically from the last like half a year. And it was probably like, at least on my end, not as many as yours, but like 30 some packages. And I just kind of picked a random one and was like, Leona, do you want to open this? And so we opened it and there was this little like squish mellow inside. And I was like, oh, look. And Leona was like, what's her name?

And I look at the tag and I say Shasta. Oh, get out. That's cool. And I was like, oh my gosh. Well, there you go. You got to bring her with you. I know. And I was like, I have to fit her in my suitcase now.

Anyway, and I looked at the box and I'm like, I don't know who sent it, but whoever you are, thank you for contributing to my- Was the Cosmos. It was the Cosmos and probably someone named like Megan or Sarah or Katie, and I'm just not giving you credit. But if, yeah, let me know who sent that.

Cause thank you for my little, you didn't even know. Maybe, maybe that you were part of a little synchronicity. A little divine situation there. Yeah, so that is why I drink them. Anyway, long story. So how long, you don't have to tell me all the details, but how long is this like retreat, not just the Caboose situation, but like,

do you get sick of it? Or like, are you gonna take a break at some point? Or are you just full throttle? Oh, no, no, I just kinda wanna be, like a little solo travel just sounds really nice. I don't really mean even a retreat. I just mean kind of like solo time with the toddler and all the pets and everything.

I just never, I'm like alone. And so I'm like, it would be really nice to just have a few days of just being close to nature or just, I mean, not being close to nature or just, I mean, not that close to nature. I'm bringing a lock, like an extra lock. No bears. I'm bringing what?

I said no bears, just- Oh, certainly no bears. Just trees. And no men. No, no bears and no men. Just me and a rental car. Poor Blaze with peas in his hair and carrots. Seriously.

I think I need some solo time. He's like, ah! That's why I was like, I'll fly back for 24 hours. He's like, I really won't allow you to do that. And I was like, I'll help. And he's like, that won't be helpful anyway. He's a good man. Yeah, he was right.

There was no easy way around it. But my mother-in-law is coming for a few days to visit because it just worked out timing-wise. And they're going to see a Taylor Swift cover band with Leona, so she's going to her first concert. So you know what I mean? It'll be a good time for them. But anyway, why do you drink? Is it your Grammy? Is it Gammie? No. Gammie's death. Gammie, she's kicked the bucket five years ago. She's... Jacqueline's concerns. JG as we call her in the house.

JG, got it. Anytime my mom is acting a little like her mom, I go, ooh, pulling a JG there. She's warning you. Ooh. Which I didn't think would stick. I said it one time as like an off the cuff thing and my mom really like melded with that.

Some things that you say are so annoying and somehow they still get said over and over. And it's like a ear worm, you know? Thank you. Well, she's really latched on. And so now she'll just tell on herself just so she can use the phrase, I pulled a JG. So-

You'll never believe what a JG I was earlier. I don't know why I drink this week, I guess. Where are you going in between those shows? Are you going home? No, I'm just going to explore. I really don't even know where I'm going to end up yet. Because as someone who regularly solo travels, I can tell you you're going to have a blast. Right, like it feels like I just haven't done that in so long

and it's like always a very restorative experience. It's wild because it's just three days right like in between I think just a couple days. Yeah I mean I'll probably just explore the two cities that sandwiched the yeah yeah but um I don't know sometimes I've on previous trips um when we've had like a week in between and we weren't recording, I've just like gone to other random ass cities. So I mean, I don't know where the world will take me. So. Wow, the wherever the wind blows.

Wherever the wind blows. Watch you end up at a railroad park and be like, that's weird, Christine's doing one of these. And then you hear me. If all of a sudden, anytime I hear choo choo, I'll know it was you. Christine's somewhere around. She's trying to recreate the train noises.

Yeah, no, I guess I'm trying to recreate the train noises. Um, yeah, no, I guess I'm excited to do a little traveling. I guess if I'm picking like a thing today, I have a lot of laundry to do because I've been avoiding that. You know, I fucking love clothes. Fucking love clothes. I mean, like, I don't... It's hard not to. Which is such a weird thing to say because it's not like I'm into fashion. What I really love is like t-shirts with like a saying on it. Right, because they like express yourself, right? So it's like oh you can buy these little matzah balls. Express yourself. Yeah exactly what I think of. Yeah I want to say that. But so I uh and Allison who is like such a minimalist, there's nothing she hates more than how every time I come home I I bring her- Then your creative expression via t-shirts. And on my solo travels, what if I find something

that the only way to commemorate it is like, get a shirt. So Alison has justified it in her head, so she can't be mad at me anymore. She's like, oh, so you collect t-shirts. That's the way that she has to say it now. Oh, a collection. Oh, I love that you just reframe it. Well, that's what she had to do

or else she was gonna start ripping her hair out. Yeah, that's like a method of, you know, self soothing. Yeah, self soothing. Exactly. Exactly. But so I buy so many t-shirts that like, I can get away with not doing laundry for a long time. So then when I do, it's always's always a mountain and a while ago I decided

like I was going to throw away like half my socks and half my underwear because that way it would force me to do laundry more often so it would stay in smaller piles but then I tricked myself again and now I only like wash my socks and underwear so that way they're quick laundries and I avoid the pile of t-shirts still. Yes, yeah. So, it's, uh, yep, I know exactly. Cause there's some underlying other thing, void we're trying to fill and it doesn't matter how many times you're going to try and do fix the, it's just. I gamified my gamifying, I guess.

So. That's really meta. Yeah. Anyway, I guess I drink because of the, the, you have Mount Shasta, I have Mount clothes, Mount laundry, so. That's why I drink. I also have this Shasta, so if you need a hug when we're on tour, you can borrow her for a minute.

Thank you. Oh, and then I looked at the tag again, and to be clear, folks, her name was assigned as Shasta. I didn't make it up. But then I read her little descriptor tag this morning and it was like, I'm trying to remember, it was so strange. It was like, she is a general manager

at a beachside restaurant. You go, girl. What? I was like, this is quite a story for her, but the backstory, no notes. After so many of those toys come out and you have to have a backstory for each of them, someone's gonna have a little bit of a

meh-meh kind of backstory, you know? I kind of, it felt at first kind of meh-meh and then I read it and I was like, oh wait, no, she is fucking loving her life. And like, if then when you take a look at her and see her floral hair piece, you're like- And her big smile. Oh, and she gets dressed every day

and puts and gets her lashes done. Like, you know,- And her big smile. Oh, and she gets dressed every day and gets her lashes done. Like, you know she's just, that's her people, that's her place. You know she doesn't have a pile of clothes somewhere that needs washing. Yeah, just like a little one that she jokes about, but it's like not really a problem like it is for us. Yeah, yeah, I can see that.

She just tries to relate, which is so kind of her. Like, she just has a good heart, you know, that's nice That's it does hurt my feelings though when I she's like, sorry the place is a mess Then I walk in like I don't see a mess. I know I know you need to stop saying But she kind of tries to fix it by coming over and being like you are just the most you have the most Gorgeous home it right, you know, and then she won't make you feel bad about it. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm That's what we all want. That's good. She's a support.

She is, she's the backbone actually. She's the backbone. She's the heartbeat. I call her my mountain. She's my rock, you know. That's why she keeps you. Even though she's so squishy. Keep going.

No. Don't dare me to, I really might and I won't be able to stop. So when it comes to kind of all your, Em and I like to discuss all our ailments, right? And when it comes to overlapping ailments, sometimes I feel like you don't know where to turn, especially when it comes to just day-to-day guidance.

And that's why I'm so thrilled that we are working with Faye Nutrition. Faye is a revolutionary platform that connects you with your own personal registered dietitian, making expert nutrition guidance accessible and affordable. So whether you're looking for improving your general health or managing a health condition, Faye has a dietitian that's right for you. And the best part is that all dietitians on Faye accept insurance with over 700 insurance plans accepted.

So you'll likely pay $0 out of pocket. They have tags for all the dietitians you can feel really safe and comfortable when you pick somebody to work with. You can really find like a tailored fit rather than just calling around and hoping an office has space for you. If you're tired of one size fits all diet plans

and generic nutrition advice, dietitians on FAY work with you one-on-one to create a customized program, just like Christine said, tailored specifically to your needs and focus on clinically proven methods to improve your relationship with food. And it works because 93% of FAY clients reported an improved relationship with food

and 85% reached their target weight. Plus, a third party study showed that clients lost 2.9 times more weight working with a dietician through FAY compared to comparable weight loss programs. Achieve lasting results with the help of a registered dietician through FAY. Listeners of And That's Why We Drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting fayenutrition.com slash drink.

That's fayenutrition.com backslash drink. One last time, that's fayenutrition.com backslash drink. And make sure you use the URL so they know that we sent you. As the child of a brand newly retired financial advisor, by the way, as of this week, I was raised that financial literacy and financial responsibility are peak importance and somehow I have failed. But luckily we have chime. When you open a chime checking account, you are one step closer to a better financial

future. Please take that step because we did not. We did not. No maintenance fees, fee free overdraft up to $200 and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, making progress toward your financial goals has never been easier. If you ever want access to your pay before payday, you can use my pay to get up to $500 of your pay early with no mandatory fees or interest and you can learn more at chime.com slash rank. You can join millions

of Chime members. We just think it's the coolest service ever toward working toward financial progress. A Chime checking account helps you move forward with fee free overdraft up to $200. That is huge. Get spotted on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals with no monthly or maintenance fees and access. This is big deal too to over 50,000 fee free ATMs. Make progress towards a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in two minutes at chime.com slash drink.

That's chime.com slash drink. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members FDIC. SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees apply

at out of network ATMs. Okay, here's my recap. Do you remember at all what I'm gonna talk about? That's okay if it's a no. It's a no. Okay, so this is a girl named Nicola Aubrey. You don't have to remember. It's called the Miracle of Lawn, I think.

How do you spell that? L-A-O-N. Oh, okay. But I, trust me, I think. How do you spell that? L-A-O-N. Oh, okay. But I, trust me, I YouTube the shit of how to pronounce that damn thing, and the best I can get you is lawn, like garcon. When it's a bunch of vowels, it's like, what do you mean?

I just want... Yeah, sorry, French people. We just finished watching a season of Below Deck where one of the people is French, and he needed subtitles every time he spoke and it's The French accents are toughy. They're just passionate about you know, it's like we're not blaming you. It's just hard to understand They're just passionate about their language. I just I I It's a that that one is hard for my head to get around. It's toughy. I agree

Okay, so the miracle of l'an Which is in l'an, France, I get it. Yeah. Okay, so the miracle of Lens, which is in Lens, France, I guess. So this is in the 16th century. Tell me when it starts tracking for you. This is in the 16th century during the big tension between Catholics and Protestants because of your favorite topic. Right, Martin Luther, yeah. Transubstantiation. Oh, transubstantiation.

Good, yes, transubstantiation. Oh, transubstantiation, good, yes, transubstantiation. Which is, well at least the one that matters in this story is that I guess one side of the Catholics decided that when you take the sacrament, it is the literal blood and body of Jesus Christ, whereas the Protestants are like, that's metaphorical and symbolic and fun, but we're not actually eating skin.

And that's so stupid, because as a Catholic, I know that it's literally blood. And then they're like, oh, you're seven, now it's time for you to drink it. And you're like, I mean, why do they think we're fucked up? Like, you're seven years old and you learn, no, this is, I remember them saying, it's not a symbol, it's literal.

And then they're like, now you walk up to this priest in front of Hundreds of people and drink this huge goblet of blood like that's literally what they told us to do and we were nine For that first communion anyway, and then they're like you're accepting Christ into your body by eating his body I mean, it's just like what in the effing fuck I know you said it last time but like The irony of like saying anything ritualistic is demonic but like hello biggest ritual I've ever heard my life blood out of a goblet like in front of the mass like they're so scared of Satan is it's like You're basically two sides of the same fucking coin. Yeah, you're just looking in the mirror and you're scared of yourselves, baby Exactly. Thank you. So the big the I'm sure there's more to why they don't like each other,

but the one we care about right now is like the Catholics think that it's literal skin and blood. It's a good headline, you know, headliner to use yet. And so just remember that in the background of the story, because this, this story ended up being used against Protestants. I see. Propaganda sort of. And you will see, I mentioned it last season, last episode. Last episode I mentioned it a little bit, but it didn't totally get brought up. It will get more brought up this time. So. Okay. And the main character here is Nicola Aubrey. She's 15 years old. She's seeing dark apparitions by her bedside. She's getting grabbed and dragged by something. She's having convulsions.

She's speaking in a voice that isn't hers. Her limbs are literally cracking. Her face, her eyes, her tongue are all getting swollen. She's getting flung around in the sky and she's having swoons, which is basically like sleeping beauty syndrome where she can't wake up. Oh, okay.

So she's kind of like going into like some sort of twilight. Trance, yeah. Sleep? Yes, trance thing. And the only thing that can save her is the sacrament. Obviously, amen. So the parents get the church involved to do exorcisms on her.

Remember I told you she's having like several, several, several public exorcisms done on her. Oh, that's right. Oh yeah, and I said, I don't even blame the people going to watch because like what else the hell do you have to do? I would go. Exactly, like we all know we were all there.

And if you say you weren't, you're probably lying. If someone told me today that there was a public exorcism I could witness, I would think for a second about it. And then I'd go, no, I feel like I shouldn't. I would think we'd at least get tagged in it on Instagram a bunch of times and have the option to go if we wanted to. I would, I maybe wouldn't go myself, but I'd be curious to what happens on TikTok in the next few days. I would check the, I was gonna say I would check the tags. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the thoughts is that this was so, the public exorcorcisms the thought is so that way people could get together to Pray together because the power of prayer but also to show the power of Catholicism specifically when only the sacrament is saving her I see so it's like a sideshow but like in the in the name of propaganda. Yeah

So during these exorcisms the demon, openly calls the Protestants in the crowd as faithful servants. Oh yeah. So fuck you Protestants. That's hysterical marketing. And when the priests try out different holy relics, none of them really piss off the demon in a way that they want it to.

The only thing that works is the Eucharist. And when at the end, when the priest demands the demon to tell him his name, the devil says, I am Beelzebub. And that's where I left it. Oh, that was I remember that was such a good cliffhanger. Oh, my God. So now that's that's what you missed on Glee. So to get rid of Beelzebub, the priest wrote Beelzebub's name down on a bunch of paper and tried to like ritually burn the paper. But it didn't work.

That's what they say to do like for about your ex. So I sort of. Lovely. I have not done. I should try that. Yeah, you should. If you're if that's still something that plagues you. Yeah, I mean, I'm over her, but I would like to see if it has but it just just you know for science. There's a few more yeah. For science. Couldn't hurt me. Certainly.

Well so I I'm gonna start this by saying the rest of these notes I had such a fucking headache trying to put all this together because I was using sources that either were translated and like into like more modern day text, then I was using, remember I read like a 60 page book and all those. Oh my God, thank God you had to talk about that

in two episodes, cause that would have been wild if you just did one episode and then you just. Never mention again. Yeah, it was not relevant anymore. Well, that book was also in like old English and it was like I had a... I'm sorry, you failed to mention that in the first episode that the 60 page book you read

was in old English. So there was a lot of trying to piece everything together. Was it on like Kindle Unlimited? Like where the hell did you, okay. It was literally a PDF someone put online. Yeah, you had to like download it off Google. Yeah. Yeah So I had it took a lot of trying to put things together and I will tell you I don't claim to be an expert on The timeline here. I tried my fucking best. That's all I can tell you

So before anyone has anything to say in the comments, that's an expert on this for some reason I was gonna say I feel like you don't have that much to contend against. Like most people are just going to work right now and aren't like experts in 16th century history. If anyone were to hear about this case somewhere else and it sounds completely off, know that I was trying my best timeline wise with like actual like quote historical sources. Yeah, so maybe they're wrong and you're right.

So keep that in mind as you're driving. Okay, here we go. So I kind of chunked things together that I couldn't timeline. So I'm just going to say at different times throughout these several exorcisms, Beelzebub was asked by the priest a few questions. Here are some of them. Beelzebub was asked, okay. The priest asked several questions to Beelzebub. These are just a handful of them. In other words, this girl. Yes. Okay, just to clarify.

This 15 year old girl who claims Beelzebub is within her. Understood, okay, so she's the one kind of answer. This is what she's being asked. She's the channel for Beelzebub, okay. It certainly looks like a 15 year old girl is talking to the priest. But we're acting like Beelzebub is here. So the first question that is asked to Beelzebub, where does he go when he's not possessing Nicola?

Because it's happened so randomly that he'll just pop in. So like, where does he go in the moments where he's not there? Well, he says, actually, I go walking, just take a walk through a forest, through a forest and it's full of sinners. It's dirty, dirty sinners. You know, like forests are. Has this girl never been in a forest? That's full of sinners. It's dirty, dirty sinners. Oh, shoot. You know, like forests are. Has this girl never been in a forest? That's probably why she doesn't understand. She's like, you know, a scary place, a forest. That's his answer.

He's like, well, I just take a stroll. Wow, this is, oof, this is rough. This is so exhausting for me that I need to go into a dark fiery forest full of dirty sinners. Totally, totally. You know how it is. Then he's asked where he will go once the priest succeeds and finally casts him out. What's next for you? Yeah, wow. Once I fire you from this body.

Once I get you out of here, what's on the docket? What's on your calendar for the year? Oh, it's the agenda. And the next thing he says is, I'm paraphrasing, obviously. He says, oh, you know, I have plans to possess this other woman, who, by the way, they're already two demons fighting over trying to possess her, but I'm going to come in and beat them to it. An all cash offer?

What are you talking about? It sounds like, I don't know if they're all going to threesome it and like possess her together Wow, good point Or like oh, I'm gonna win the fight and get in there before they do There'll be a foursome though too. Oh threesome the three demons. Yeah, I got you Four in spirit Three demonically for sure

Uff, uff And then he did confirm by the way when you drive out a demon from a person, we just go possess someone else. We're just like, the infestation just kind of bops around. I really hope that's not true, because that sounds scary to me. I'll alert the priests in the area and see if they can get me a better answer for you. Yeah, I'm curious, because like, if he's just walking around the woods, like, why can't he just keep walking around the woods? Why does he have to keep possessing people? You got to keep your cardio up my guy I

would I would think you would just like find some solitude out there you know and if you can fly to another person why are you walking anywhere why are you not just like in hell enjoying yourself yeah why aren't you just sitting somewhere laughing just that like I have a lot it's almost as if there's a lot of clarification needed. No, I think otherwise it's pretty straightforward. Imagine you and I would be in the audience with our hands raised and they'd be like, we're not taking questions.

Be like, just real quick. One cue. Just real quick. Well, here's another one. The Beelzebub is asked, are there a lot of demons? Are you just like one or there's a lot or oh, you said you're going to go possess this woman with two other people. Like how many are there? Are there a lot? Beelzebub says, yes, more than there are flakes of snow. Okay. Oh, charming. Beautiful. Then the priest asks, why was he able

to even possess Nicola? Like what, how'd you gain access to this girl? And Beelzebub says, well, a few years ago, Nicola and her sister, they lost a rosary that their mom gave them, and when their mom found out, she screamed at them and said, may the devil take you. So here I am. Imagine screaming that nowadays at your child. Like, I feel like if someone yelled that at their child,

I don't even believe in whatever that is, but I'd be like, that's so inappropriate. I think it would still scare me. Sure, of course. So he said, that happened. She kind of gave me like, she opened the window for me. And I've kind of had some access to her this whole time ever since her mom gave me that ability.

Whoa. Um, but apparently later on in life, Nicola was then in a fight with her husband. Reminder, she is 15 with a husband. Oh, the 16th century. So I don't know what is okay. Yeah. What's like the deal? Yeah.

Um, but they got in a fight. Her husband also says, may the devil take you. And he is like, ah, I have even more power. And apparently since then, which I wonder take you. And he is like, ah ha ha, I have even more power. And apparently since then, which I wonder if there's some plan like because he owns her as her property, then he gets the full say. Her mother consented when she was 10 on her behalf. Now her husband consents, not because she's 15,

because she's a woman. And his property, I guess. And his property, exactly. And so ever since then, Beelzebub kicked the door down and finally had access to her. So it's like the men's fault is what they're saying. And I feel like we're not getting across that. That that's, well, in this case, it's the man's fault.

And just like that, I, that's the end of my notes. It was a man's fault. The end. I know, who knew it would take us so long to figure out? So this is a quote from Beelzebub about how he has been trying to possess her. How he's been trying to gain access, full access to possessing her this whole time, up until the husband let him. I often throw her down to kill her. I throw her into the fire to

burn her and into the river to drown her. I tempted her to say foolish and wicked things and I tempted her to steal money from her grandfather. I urged her to steal from her parents and she stole everything she could and she gave them to her neighbors. Okay, socialist. But also giving to your neighbor sounds like something Jesus would do not be able to but right. Like when you want to sounds more Robin Hood, like you said, yeah. Yeah. So I'm already thinking that this is not Beelzebub speaking because if he thought his big final act would be, I made her share, you know. Yeah, I distributed the well.

Well, I mean, I guess the Catholic Church would probably see it that way. Okay. The socialism is demonic, so you know. Well, it worked then because everyone was like, no, not the neighbors. So- Not the neighbors. So,

well, then the priest, this is later on the priest says, Hey, so, um, I don't know how we got, I don't know. I, I myself don't know how we got to this place, but at some point, the priest does like some sort of status update and it's like, how are you alone in Nikola or are there a lot of you like, cause you're saying that demons can possess multiple, multiple demons can come through. Are you alone? How many are there a lot of you? Cause you're saying that demons can possess multiple, multiple demons can come through. Are you alone? How many are there? Nikola slash Bielzabub says, 19 of us now,

tomorrow will be 20, but that's not all for I must call all hell to my assistance. What? And that's Bielzabub. He's pretty high in the ranks. I know, why would you need, it actually makes Bielzabub look really weak. You need 20 other people. 20, and then he's pretty high in the ranks. I know, like why would you need, it actually makes Beelzebub look really weak. Like you need 20 other people. 20, and then he's like,

I don't even know if I can handle fighting off two other demons for this other lady once you kick me out of here. Which by the way, like wouldn't the smart answer have been like, you won't kick me out of here? Not like, oh, I'll go to somebody else. Like you're already showing all your weakness. And to say, I must call all hell for a 15 year old girl.

Come on. Seriously, this is like embarrassing. Please, come on. Come on. So the priest tells. Is that a new slang term? Bebe, you know. Oh, Beelzebubby.

Beelzebub? Oh, Beelzebub is little Mozzaball. Doesn't it? Um, okay, so the priest tells Bielsa Bub to leave. This, by the way, becomes such a trend in the story. The priest says leave, the devil says no, and then they just do it over again tomorrow. Will they, won't they? You know.

I know. Et cetera. Uh, lovers to enemies to lovers. Oh, wow. Is that why you read that book? You thought it was going to be like, smutty? I know. Et cetera. Well, enemies to lovers. Wow. The precess. Is that why you read that book? You thought it was going to be like a smutty? I haven't gotten to the end yet, but I will tell you there's a kiss. I'm just kidding.

In my- In middle, in 16th century old English. Yeah. Christine, you know somewhere there is a 16th century fanfic about Jesus and Satan falling in love. Uh-oh. I promise you there is. I promise you I agree with you. Someone's thought about it. Yeah. And it's in Old English and I've probably read it.

And it totally wasn't me. I promise. If there isn't, can someone find some and send it to us? No. Oh, no? Okay, no, no. I get enough smut sent to Beach Two Sandy. I don't need more smut sent to me. Send it to Em. I'll take it. Yeah. That sounds great. I've got plenty. I can read it from fresh eyes

since I never grew up with religious trauma. How about that? Oh, there you go. See, it's a little more, yeah, yeah, off putting to me in that way. So maybe you'll be really in, maybe it'll turn you on. Maybe. Maybe that's your thing.

Maybe, maybe I haven't discovered it yet. Wow, that's beautiful. So the priest tells Beelzebub to leave. Beelzebub says about him and his 20 underlings. He says, we'll leave, but not now and not here. And then literally like Batman or something says, my work is not done in this city. And then just like flees. Wow. He's gay.

And walks through the woods. Yeah, he's up for sure. The fruitiest thing I've ever heard in my life. Well, it's also just like so flashy, like relax, you know? I mean, I fully believe that if there's a devil, he is the definition of camp. And like- Well, right, they couldn't be any other way at this point. And his fish nets, my work isn't done in the city.

Oh, it just kind of flies off. The cape like gets flicked in some space. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Well, around this time, the priest starts hearing things at night and he's in his own house when he is like off the clock from doing these millions of exorcisms. Great.

He starts hearing thuds, knocks, whistling upstairs when he's alone. Ew. And eventually during one of these exorcisms, the priest even says, Beelzebub, when you leave Nikola, like, are you around ever? And Beelzebub said, well, last night I visited you.

Camp. It's not camp. I'm gonna make it camp. Pretend it was camp. Everyone pretend a drag queen said that. Yeah, well, pretend that the footsteps that you heard were clicks of thigh heels. And then he sent, he smelled something and he's like, hairspray? Like, what is going on? The whistling was to like, you know, some Madonna or something. Some feathers fell, but they were like hot pink.

Yes, yes. Okay, okay. I'll get us together. I can hear myself spiraling. Okay. So the priest says, what are you up to? He says, oh, well, I visited you last night. And this time the priest decides he's going to use the sacrament alone to make Beelzebub

leave her body. Say like, get out of here. Get out of here. With like the... I'm assuming a communion wafer. Okay, gotcha. That's the best I can do because they just keep saying the sacrament never to find what it is. Hey, I have something like really cursed to say real quick. I

Hear music and this happened to me once before oh No, I there's nothing happening over here. No, I'm picking up a radio frequency through my headphones I did this yesterday by accident somehow. Is this a joke? What are you? No, I'm not even joking I wish I were yesterday There was this country music playing and I kept telling my brother to like turn, like figure out what it was. Turns out he like muted himself and I still heard it.

Took off my headphones, didn't hear anything. Put my headphones on. Ultimately after like going through a million things I realized, wait a minute, this is like a local radio station and now- Are you a transmitter? I have a classic radio station play or classic rock in my ears right now the devil's music you know oh and you know

it was wild is when you went like this I heard like one of the drum a tin what do you call this oh that thing uh-huh and so when you did that was like so and I was like whoa how'd you do that M? And then I went, oh no, it's happening again. So are you like, can you pretend they're like rabbit ears on an old TV and like fuck with them? That's maybe what I'll do. One moment. Can you pray it away? That is so weird. I'm telling you, I have had the craziest shit happening to me, like with electronics lately.

Things are like, I'm not kidding you. I don't know what's going on. I have broken like three phones, two iPads, a bunch of vape pens anyway. That's weird. That is weird. Yeah, it like won't stop. Light bulbs, anyway. Now I'm channeling fucking classic radio.

Can you still hear it? No, it's gone now. Did you really pray it away? That's incredible. I think I just kind of prayed it away, not to the God of the Catholics, but to my my own power. I don't know. My mouth.

So around this time, the priest started hearing things at night. Oh, my God. Me too. Classic rock. It was classic rock in his headphones. Symbols. So, OK, this is the part where I was at, where up until now, he's used like holy relics or he's done like a cross on the forehead or whatever, just to piss off the demon. At this point, he's like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I think my house is reacting to your story. I'm so sorry.

I think you're getting everyone worked up over here. Everyone sensing it. Yeah. At this point, he the priest is like, fuck this, like we've done this back and forth too many times. I'm just going to pull out the sacrament and I'm going to say, get the hell away from her. And the closer he puts the sacrament to Nicola's body, that the Beelzebub starts freaking the fuck out. Eventually, Nicola's body starts contorting and winding and writhing. And Beelzeb, fleas temporarily again,

this happens hundreds of fucking times, I'm so sick of it. But leaves for the day. Fleas temporarily, yeah. Plocks out. Fleas has such like a strong connotation of like, just drama and then it's like temporarily. He clocked out, he was like, my stories are on, I'll be back tomorrow.

He's like, actually I have to listen to a podcast in the woods or whatever, It's my new retreat. Well, this time, I think I think this if I'm right, then this was when the priest used the sacrament for the first time to make him leave. And on his way out of Nicola's body, Beelzebub badly damaged her arm to a point where he like stretched it longer than the other arm, and then it ends up paralyzed. Oh, God.

And this arm, there's also like parts of the, of different sources that say he also hurt her foot. Nobody seems to give a shit about that. They only care about the arm. Okay. But so her arm is like heavily examined by doctors because everyone's like, is this real? Is this a hoax?

We still don't know. So like, let's, let's look at this now paralyzed arm. Doctors literally try cutting into it, burning it. They do like the pins under the nails thing. Ah! I know, I know, I know, I know. But let's just say she is, it is definitely not moving around

and she's not reacting to it. That's weird. And she's like 15, right? I mean, it's not like she's been, yeah. If I were 15 and I made up the story and then I found out someone's gonna put a pin under my fingernail, I'd be like, I give up. It was never real.

If I found out that someone was gonna put me on a stage and do an exorcism in front of a hundred people, I'd be like, bye, I'm out, I want nothing to do with this stage fright, no thanks. Well, leave it to the Catholics to insert this little part of the story in, is that they even let Protestant physicians- Oh wow, that's so big of them.

Examine her when she was under these swoons, and they would let Protestants try whatever they needed to. They put unconsecrated bread soaked in wine next to her face, but it didn't work, and only when a true sacrament was placed next to her would she wake up from these trances. So, just proving how powerful the sacrament truly is, because it is indeed the flesh and blood of Christ. That's exactly right.

So at some point during these exorcisms, the Beelzebub, the demon, he is saying, whatever you do, don't take me to this one town. I think it's called Lies, whatever. Don't take me to this town. And if you promise not to take me to this town, then I'll leave right away, right away. I'm so scared of that town.

And the priest is like, what? Okay, well, obviously we're gonna take you there right now. But I mean, I want to go, I'm curious. But being the demon he is, he was probably playing a mind game on them of like, don't take me there, knowing he would get taken. Oh, that's pretty good reverse psychology. Classic. He said, don't take me there. And the priest was like, we're going right now. On the way to that town, Beelzebub apparently fought it in every way possible he created storms he created accidents the horse that was taking them got spooked at one point the horse just was catatonic and stopped fucking moving um it was very organ trail i guess um and when the priest asked for um when they finally

got to this town and they're doing the exorcisms, he asks the demon again, status update, how many demons are there? Because last time you said 20. And then he goes, oh, actually now it's me and 29 others. And so that makes a total of 30. And three of them are like so powerful, you wouldn't even believe.

And they all live in this town, least or whatever. Is that why they went? We never find that out. Oh, okay. So I think you're right. Cause like, why else would it suddenly be so many more people, more demons? Yeah. Or maybe this is where they would,

it's like a trick. Their power would be harnessed. I have no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I do know that it's like a religious area. So maybe like for the sake of this like propaganda story. So for the story it's like, oh, this like ultra religious place. Okay. Yeah. For the sake of this like propaganda story. So for the story it's like, oh, this like ultra religious place.

Okay. Yeah. For the sake of story, maybe it's like, oh, he really didn't want to go there because with the power of Christ, we'd really get them in this city. Whatever. So the devil says, or Beelzebub, I don't know if he's the true devil. It's him plus 29. A dark light just descended and M was engulfed in fiery flame.

He said, I don't know if Beelzebub is the true devil. I'm burning. He said it in such a manifesto, like it's not the true devil. Well, okay, so in each of these sources, one of them would say Satan, one of them would say the devil, one of them would say Beelzebub. See, no, you're right, because Lucifer,. You're right. Because like Lucifer. Yeah. Anyway, go on. Yes. We've discussed this. Of these other 29 demons,

we learned the names of three of them, and apparently they're the most powerful of these 29. There is Cerberus, Astaroth, and then Legio. Oh, so those three plus more, plus Big Daddy Beelzebub, we've got all 30 of them. So during some of these exorcisms, now knowing that there are 30 spirits in her, Beelzebub would talk to people in the crowd in different languages.

Oh. And also he would listen and respond in different languages. So, and also he would listen and respond in different languages. So he would hear someone speaking French, he would say it. And he would mock the bishop and the clergy by whistling while they were doing their prayers. He would sing, he would mimic their voices.

He would spit in their face. He would just scream randomly. And moments where Nicola would be sound of mind and try to give confession to get this thing away from her, Beelzebub would appear out of nowhere to make sure that she couldn't give confession so she could stay a dirty sinner. He was running from back from the woods. That was on the way, Deidre. So Beelzebub then said that, oh, he made a claim that Protestants actually stole the

sacrament one time and they broke it and burned it and fed it to the savage animals. Oh my Lord. He was quoted also saying, quoted, I don't know how real this quote is, but allegedly Bielzabub said, my brave Protestants will treat God even worse than the Jews. Oh woof. And Bubby's little matzah ball is not happy about that. Vielza Bubby needs to tone it down, man. Well, Vielza Bub also pointed to some people in the crowd and just to scare them, would shout out their sins, their secret sins to the public, including apparently he would point at some of the women in the crowd and be like, oh, by the way,

you practice witchcraft and you practice witchcraft. Oh, shit. And those girls, they grabbed their purses and they fucking left. and be like, Oh, by the way, you practice witchcraft and you practice witchcraft. Oh shit. And those girls, they grabbed their purses and they fucking left. They were like, I want nothing to do with that. They were like, this was fun. Bels would then, I think this was around the same time, or this was a separate exorcism, but one of the things he would like to do is morph Nikola's looks.

So like he was like already distorting her face and things like that. But there was one instance where he turned her looks into sensual beauty, which I think they're trying to like call her like slutty and impure. And he made Nicola make unseemly gestures and say euphemisms that were unbecoming of a lady. Oh, my gosh. And then at some point, during this, Nikola's tongue went like rigid

and her face started contorting again until the priest put a cross to her eyes, ears, and mouth. Ugh. The priest then put more holy relics near her. Beelzebub laughed and said, Oh, very well, I too will employ more powerful means against you. I shall call all the devils of hell to my aid. It's like you already have 30 of them and your Beelzebub. What else do you need?

We've like already threatened this before, you know. Like it's just sounding like circular at this point. It's like hollow threats at this point. Yes. So Beelzebub once again tries to put Nicolana Swoon, which is only she's only brought back with the sacrament. This pisses me off because Beelzebub at the end of every single exorcism puts her in a swoon and it's like easily fixed with the sacrament. Like it's like not even a problem so why are you even doing it?

Yeah it's like not even impressive anymore. When she came to this time after her sensual impure whatever moment, Nikola said that while under a trance, she saw scary monsters with fire coming out of their eyes and nose threatening her and closing it on her while holding knives. Yikes. Here are some more instances of things that happened behind closed doors that were not at the actual exorcisms because she was being haunted by something at home. Right. Okay. So these were just like the, okay, gotcha.

And some of these are really fucking ridiculous. Remember last time I told you that there was a source I read where she like saw a goblin? Oh yeah. So like, why isn't that getting mentioned everywhere? Yeah, the goblin and he like said something and then, ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the things I just listed were things

that happened publicly, these are the things that happened privately. One time Nicola was at home with one of her younger sisters and she levitates and flies into the air and her sister tries to grab her to hold her down and Beelzebub says, you little hussy, will you not let your sister go? And out of shock, her sister let go.

Biel's opens a window, throws Nicola out the fucking window, and onto the snow. Oh my God. Dramatic. Dramatic. Another time an abnormally large fly is buzzing around the room,

and when Nicola's husband tried to catch it, it vanished, and at the same time, he got sucker punched in the face. Which apparently, it vanished and at the same time he got sucker punched in the face. Which apparently it's interesting because Beelzebub is known to be the god of flies. So okay that's intriguing. Another time a less experienced priest was subbing for the main priest. Okay, rookie. Rookie, rookie mistake. And while he was trying to start the exorcism or get things warmed up while the real priest got there,

all of a sudden Beelzebub comes through and says, "'Now come here, my dear. "'You'll play the devil and I'll be the exorcist. "'Get on your knees and I'll exorcise you.'" Whoa! And then the devil starts saying all of the priest parts, which I think is not supposed to be possible. Uh-oh.

He starts making the sign of the cross, the devil himself, which makes you wonder more and more that it's just a teenage girl. And as soon as the real priest walked in, all activity stopped as if he didn't know how. Mm-hmm. Huh, another time Nicola was staying at a friend's house and they heard her suffocating and when they ran to check on her she was being smothered by her

own pillows and she said that the goblins had come back. No. And that they had tried bribing her out of having another exorcism and letting the the demon stay inside of her and when she refused they choked her to death or tried to choke her to death. What in the fuck, Em? Another time, a man, this one really freaks me out. I feel like this could be a listener story kind of thing. One time a man from the crowds who had been going to these exorcisms went to Nicola's house to talk to her,

and the priest said, no, you're not allowed in because you could be the devil in disguise. If there's a devil in her, there could be a devil in you. I don't want you anywhere near this. Convening. Yeah. And the man came in anyway, yikes, on someone's property to go see a 15 year old girl. Yep. That sounds right. And Nikola looked at him and said in the, in her Beelzebub voice, Baltazo, what are you doing here? And apparently Baltazo is the name of another demon.

So like- What the fuck? They recognized each other. Ew, that's icky. I don't like that story. When the- What are you doing here, buddy? It's been a while.

I feel like- How's the wife and kids? Well, they'll just let anyone in here now, won't they? Yeah, I love the cat drag. So when the priest realized that these- I feel like, well they'll just let anyone in here now, won't they? Yeah, they'll go let the cat drag. So, when the priest realized that these- Look what the priest dragged in. When the priest realized that two demons were recognizing each other and like just schmoozing it up,

he kicked the other guy out, which, so that devil can listen to you and immediately leave the house, but this one can't. Maybe he's not strong enough, you know, he's still an amateur, that other devil. Well, either way, Beelzebub then looks at the priest and says, it is well that you always have someone watching over Nicola. Had you let that fellow alone with her, you'd never see her again. What does it even mean? I don't know what that means. Like, was Baltazo, the one who's weaker and able to just flee like that,

he was going to do the damage that Beelzebub couldn't? Yeah, Beelzebub feels like he's like Beelzebub with like Beelzebubba, Beelzebubby, and he's like off-mer- like he's pretending to be the real Beelzebub. Because I feel like he's not doing a very good job. He's all talk. I think he just has to make his parodies do everything. And he's not even necessarily good at the talk because he keeps like accidentally showing his own weaknesses, you know?

It's giving Wizard of Oz where it's like, I'm gonna make others do things because I don't actually have power. Yeah, and I'm just gonna keep threatening you. One of the, this is the last one I'll say, but this also felt really creepy too, is that during one of the exorcisms, Beelzebub points to a man in the crowd and he says,

good morning, Peter. Say, what were you up to last night? And then starts describing all the sins that Peter had committed that night. Oh. Peter freaks out. He runs to confession, which by the way, there were so many like people in this crowd.

So they're falling for it. Oh, totally. I mean, they literally had priests like on standby in these, in the cathedral to do like on site confessionals, because everyone was was going back to Catholicism. Oh, God. Anyway, Peter finds is getting clocked by this demon freaks out, goes straight to a confession. And when he comes back to watch the rest of the exorcism, which I love that he came back, the priest asked Beelzebub, who's that guy over there,

the one that you were just talking to? And Beelzebub says, oh, that's Peter. And the priest says, do you know anything else about him? Like what he was up to last night? And Beelzebub says, nope, I don't know anything else. I just know that he's Peter. So it shows the power of a Catholic confession. So it's like he cleansed himself.

Blocking the devil from knowing you. So then that of course made everybody else want to go straight to a confession. Oh my God. That's honestly genius marketing. Like I'm serious. This is really good marketing. I feel like there's a TikToker somewhere

who back in the 16th century would be like, I know exactly how to get everyone to be team Catholic. And he was a priest. He founded TikTok. Totally. All the way back then. Yeah. tick tocker somewhere who back in the 16th century would be like, I know exactly how to get everyone to be team Catholic. He founded TikTok. Totally. Yeah. Okay, last thing I'm going to talk about here, because I know this has been a while, but I want to get more into like the Catholics versus the Protestants and how the Protestants

are feeling right now. Because obviously everything is very pro-Catholic, anti-Protestant. But as news spreads of Nicola's possession, Beelzebub being there, they're being called dirty Protestants and loyal servants to Beelzebub, and people are only taking confession or giving confession to become Catholic again, and only the sacrament is the true blood, and that's the only thing that seems to be taking her out of these trances. The Protestants are like, I have to fucking go over there and see this myself. Yeah, and on top of that we have to like go disprove this hoax That's making us look really bad. Yeah, yeah, because someone's over there telling everyone that we're like servants of the devil We have to go over there. Yeah, and like we already know that this is just a fucking wafer

Sorry, we're the ones who know that for a fact. So it's hard to convince. You can't convince us though. You know what I mean? I'm not religious, obviously, between the two. I'm team Protestant right now, at least for this reason. And you know that all of them are sitting at a bar together and they're going, am I fucking crazy to think that we're not eating skin? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, why didn't anyone say anything sooner, man? And we were all thinking it. So they go to these extra systems. I wonder if like as a little team, like we're going to get you, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do some like recon, you know, they're like, let us see for ourselves. They're in disguises, Catholics, in case anyone wonders. Oh, that's hilarious. What does that mean? They just have rosaries. They're just like, I guess so. I don't know. They just eat skin in front of everyone. They're just like drinking blood. Like this is what you guys like to do, right?

This is your favorite thing. We don't have this wrong? So, okay, they go to the exorcisms. The Elzebub calls them out by name immediately and says, Look, there are some dirty, dirty, dirty Protestants. Wow. He salutes them. My friends! Hey, girl.

And then even says like, oh, did you know that I actually, in some way, cosmically ordered you to come here and you being here is proof that you obey me. Oh, for God's sake. So now they're doing like a sibling. This feels like my brother and I arguing in like roundabout semantics. Like technically I made you come here.

So I'm actually stronger than you. And you actually are servants to me. If you're here to say no then why are you here when I wanted you to be here? Exactly it's like the ultimate gaslighting. Yes. So they wanted to say out loud to the public like hey like has anyone tried not using sacramental relics to like take her out of these trances because maybe there are some Protestant ways that work too, instead of you guys just like trashing us and saying the Eucharist is the only way out. So let's do some Protestant things in front of the crowd. One of the preachers, Protestant preachers,

he reads his Protestant Bible and the devil starts laughing at him in front of everybody. So embarrassing. So embarrassing. And then the devil goes, do you intend to expel me with your prayers and hymns? I helped to compose them. You will not expel me. Did you ever hear of one devil driving out another calling the Protestant's devils like him? Wow. And when the preacher said, I'm not a devil, I'm a servant of Christ, Beelzebub says,

you are worse of a believer than I am. You do not want to believe. Do you think you can expel me from this miserable wretch? First, expel the devils that are in your own heart. Duncan. Where's Lin-Manuel? Because he could make like the ultimate rap battle here. And I just feel that that's the only way to go creatively.

I mean, Bielsbub would explode. There would be a great moment in that show for Beelzebub. And we'd call it Beelzebubbies little matzah ball. That's right. I'm sure Beelzebub would love to be paired with the Jews on top of all this. Yeah, the Jewish holiday, a Jewish Christmas miracle. We'll find a way to market it to everybody. To everybody, yeah. The only person other than us who has ever pulled that off, by the way, was Tommy Pickles in the Hanukkah special.

You know what? The records. And that is a really high bar we're gonna have to try and aim for. So at this point, he's just like Duncan, slam Duncan on these Protestants going, you're a devil, you're literally as bad as I am. You're actually worse.

You're proving my own fucking point. And so when the Protestants decide to turn around and leave, one of them says, like, God, I pray that you'll help Nicola. And Beelzebub says, and I pray that Lucifer never leaves you and always keeps you firmly in his power. You are all mine and I am that Lucifer never leaves you and always keeps you firmly in his power. You are all mine and I am your master." Oh my gosh, this is intense. And in front of everybody who's wondering

if they should go back to Catholicism, yikes. I mean, ultimate marketing ploy. After this, back and forth, Beelzebub leaves, again puts Nicola on a swoon. Many Protestant preachers try to wake her, but they can't until they begrudgingly put the sacrament to her mouth. She wakes up totally fine. And then the priest on stage with everybody, he looks at the crowd and he goes, go, go

and tell everybody what you've witnessed that the sacrament works and the Catholics are right. Basically. Oh, God. This obviously does not fly with the Protestants. They are pissed off. So they demand that Nicola is arrested and held in a cell. And I don't know if that's like for

slander or some shit. We never get into the details of that. But apparently, why not? There's nothing else to do. You can just citizens arrest people just for no good reason except they like made you embarrassed, you know? Well, it worked. She was put in a cell. I would have sent everybody to jail already if people who embarrassed me or like caused me to embarrass myself. A last man on earth, maybe. Exactly.

At my like family Thanksgiving dinner table, I would have Thanksgiving alone, I guess. Or Christmas alone. Please, yeah, yeah, exactly. Everybody would be screwed. So, okay, so she's arrested now. The chief magistrate and a Protestant doctor go to visit her to be like, once and for all, can you just tell us

how you're fucking pulling this off?' Which, by the way, if you just hear everything I've said, it's a 15-year-old girl talking. That's all that's happened so far. It is weird that she's able to know what some of the people in the crowd are up to, but maybe she's got a gossipy mom. But maybe they mean more like, how are you doing this?

How are you like, are you in cahoots with this? Well, okay, how are you flying? But are you at cahoots with the priest? How is this whole hoax being perpetrated? Is it just you or is it, is the church in on it? I don't know. Well, they went to go ask her questions. When they showed up at the cell, she was asleep.

But as soon as they walked in, Beelzebub came to and attacked the doctor, which I love that he's in the the cell or... Well, yeah, it seems like it's a pretty easy peasy jail cell if you can just like willy-nilly send people in there. So I imagine it was great security. It seems like it was unlocked, this cell, and she was just snoozing in there. This is where the Catholics really tried to turn it for good on the Protestants, because in this story, what happens next is he the doctor has now been attacked by Beelzebub. So they say for revenge, the doctor tries

to fight off Nikola. She goes into one of her trances and the doctor takes out of his medical bag a black liquid and puts it into Nikola's mouth. And so some are like, is it to sedate her? But she was already in a trance. Is it to wake her up to see if something other than the sacrament could work? Like, could just science fucking work? The book I read said that he literally tried to poison her in front, like in front of the chief magistrate out of revenge

and like get away with attempted murder. Yeah, doesn't really make sense. I think he was trying to poison the demon inside of her and it didn't occur to him that he was also killing a 15-year-old girl, you know what I mean, or trying to. Yeah. I think he was trying to just see

would the demon arise from this. Would it react to something toxic? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, nothing happens. The only thing that works is begrudgingly putting the sacrament to her lips. She instantly wakes up.

Why do they keep doing it? Or is it the Catholics are there too? Cause I'm like, they should just not even try at this point. I think the Protestants are like, we'll have one as a backup cause it seems to work. Okay, fine. So she wakes up and she starts screaming at the doctor that they tried to poison her, something in her is burning

and then she throws up the black liquid. Very exorcism-like. Whoa. And according to the book I read, these Protestants realized in this moment she must not be faking it because if she was really in a trance, how would she know that they put liquid in her body

and now she's throwing it up because obviously the devil's reacting to it, not because like it's maybe fucking epic. And so now the magistrate says, release her from the cell. She is obviously innocent. She is a victim of in all of this. And they instantaneously, the chief magistrate and the Protestant doctor become Catholics in that exact moment because they now believe that she was never faking it. Oh my god, that's absurd. The next day at the

exorcism, the bishop asked, hey Bielsbob, what'd you do last night? And Bielsbob says, don't you know? I was in the prison. The magistrate will not forget it. And the doctor gave this wretched creature some medicine. It was strong enough to poison 20 people. It was I who helped them prepare it. So he was not apparently he shouldn't have known any of that. But also Nikola's body was literally fucking there. Now she's reporting on it. So right. Exactly.

And I have I'm sorry. I have five lines left. I know this is a long one. So after this the Protestants are extra pissed maybe because they failed at poisoning her maybe because theelzebub is accusing them of attempted murder, maybe because she only woke up to the sacrament, so their beliefs are still being disproven. I don't know. Take your choice. It feels like an acme cartoon, like a looney tune, the way everyone's running around and

then they're like, I'm in jail. No, you're not. I poisoned you. No, you didn't. It's a Tom and Jerry of sorts. It feels like back and forth nonsense. So the Protestants literally write to the bishop and demand that the exorcisms no longer be public, maybe because they're embarrassed and they don't want people to keep saying that their Protestant ways aren't saving her. I don't know. But the tensions between Protestants and Catholics are is overflowing at this point that the bishop is like, not a bad idea. Maybe we just make them private from now on because like there's now like mob uproars going on. Yeah, you're rallying

everybody up. So he says that the exorcisms will now be in a private chapel. But during the very first private exorcism, Beelzebub comes forward and says, I will not depart in this place. And now because you have done this to me, my time possessing Nicola has prolonged. I will depart only in a public church. You have taken away the platform, but you must put it up again." So if you want me to leave Nicola, we have to keep doing these publicly, basically. Oh my God. So immediately after like two days, the bishop was like, okay, fine, we're going to do these publicly again, so he'll leave faster. And when they go back out publicly, remember, Nicola has 30 demons in her.

Right? How can I forget? And the priest commands that they leave holds up the sacrament. And I don't know why this was the magical time that they listened. Because they're in a church, maybe? Oh, yeah, maybe to say like, thank you for God. Maybe to say no, no, this is now they've gone back to public exercise. Oh, I thought it was inside a church, thank you for God. Maybe to say no, no, no, this is now they've gone back to public exercise. Oh, I thought it was inside a church, not public outside still. Yeah, they're they're back on stage on tour.

Yeah. And so now that they're back on stage, I'm guessing this is like as a thank you to like listening to Beelzebub or like to like I have no idea. They go back out in public. And during that exorcism, her and all 30 of her demons, the priest commands that they leave, he holds up the sacrament, the demons in her start freaking the fuck out. She starts contorting again, her eyes bulge out, her face stretches and changes colors, her limbs crack again, and now a black smoke leaves her mouth, which has not happened yet. And Beelzebub announces that 26 of the demons have left.

And Nicola falls into another swoon, woken up by the sacrament per usual. Her face changes back to what it was. And that leaves us with Beelzebub and those three powerful demons still inside of her for the town to exercise, which will happen next week. Part three. It's the final one, I promise. I'm trying so hard to get through this, but there's so much fucking information.

So I just feel so bad because I talked for like a full hour. So no, no, no, I needed to know about this Bielsa Bubba And I'm really already Merchandising this in my mind. Bielsa Bubby. I'm sure there is a mad Christian and Jew out there all the same. I hope so That's so that's my only hope and I I really hope that we could get this going as like an alternate to Elf on the Shelf, Beelzebubby, you know? And it's like, it's not only like,

it's not even really Jewish, like religiously, it's just like, oh, I kind of like, turn my nose up at the whole religiosity of the holidays. It's the flying spaghetti monster of it all. Yes, thank you. It's like the non- Beelzebubby in the tubby. Non-denominational.

Yeah, Beelzebubby in the tubby. That's good. Beelzebubby. All right, well, perfect. Anyway, that's all of the- Glad we did our marketing meeting in the middle of our episode as usual. Good work there.

This is seriously the most dramatic. It just makes me roll my eyes at the Catholics as usual. Good work there. This is seriously the most dramatic. It just makes me roll my eyes at the Catholics as usual. They love the drama. Yeah, I can tell. As an outsider reading about this for the first time, even I'm literally sitting here with these notes being like, I can't piece this together. No, and while this part is like this shit still,

I mean, okay, not as extreme as like these weird sideshow things, but like, it's still all very the same, like the the procedures of exorcisms and the drinking the blood. I mean, it's all still like happening. So it's kind of freaky. But I mean, I said I'm not I'm not knocking it for anyone else is certainly not for me anymore. But it was ever for me anymore, but. It was never for me.

If that's, if you really think you're eating skin and drinking blood, rock on, brother. It's when you say skin that really it feels like it hits harder because I was told so many times the blood and body of Christ, like it doesn't even mean anything to me anymore. Yeah, you have to trip them up. The skin, like that's where you're like, oh, are we sure it's literal?

You're 110% sure, okay. Yeah, uh-huh. It's when you drink the blood, you do taste iron. It does taste like pennies to you, right? How anemic is it? Like that's disgusting. I'm so sorry. So question though, with trans sub whatever.

Stanchion, yeah. When you take a swig of wine, which apparently now in your mouth has become blood and is not at all dark magic. No. If you were to spit it back out, does it become wine again? Or is it... It doesn't happen in your mouth. It happens when the priest blesses it.

Oh, so you can be holding a cup of blood. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could be holding an entire box of blood. You could consecrate a... I'm not even joking, like a Boda box. And we haven't gone to a doctor to test the the blood to see like was Jesus a B positive or whatever No, that's what I'm saying. It's okay. Lily Nilly out there. All right, talk about like Heathens, you know, you're just out there drinking blood out of cups. Willy nilly and then they go ah vampires But then you wonder why Catholics like wine, right? It's like obviously,, you know. Mm, I see, I see.

It's all coming together. Okay, actually I do have an anecdote. And today I, and you know, you know we love an anecdote. Today I was looking online for a certain brand of sweatpants that I wanted to purchase, but it was so expensive and I was looking for coupon codes. And then I was like, wait, what am I doing? And I just hopped onto Quince and found a comparable pair of sweatpants for, I think it was like $60 less than the website I was using. I'm not even exaggerating.

I was so thrilled that I got to buy two colors. Quince offers a range of high quality items at accessible prices, including 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50, which we all own at this point. Yes. Me, Christina, Deva, washable silk tops and dresses cashmere sweaters for $50, which we all own at this point. Yes. Me, Christina Deva, washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters, and 14 karat gold jewelry. The best part is that Quinn's items, obviously, are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And of course, I do the little comparison

where you can see it. Oh, it's so satisfying. By partnering directly with top factories, Quinn's cuts out the middleman and passes the savings on to us. But they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes.

And that's just super important to me as well. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Visit quince.com slash drink for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash drink. I'm really excited about my underwear because it's from the FitsEverybody collection. It's very soft. It's very like the even the colors I feel like are kind of trendy and specifically it

was the FitsEverybody full brief in the color Jasper. If you want to look up what I apparently think is trendy and cool and maybe it's not but whatever I'm going to keep it for as long as I possibly can because it's that comfortable. And this is from the Fits Everybody collection. Christina and I have different body types. If you are my grandmother, you would call me Zoftic. If I'm me, you're also gonna call you that. And I have, I did not get any underwear,

but I did get the Fits Everybody t-shirt. Can't tell you, it is delightful. I feel like powerful. Oh, good. Okay, great. Yeah, then that fits, that fits. The fits everybody collection is available in sizes extra, extra small to four X.

You can shop now at skims.com and skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu the follows. Okay. So I awkwardly had to reteach myself part one of my own story. Love.

Because I did that thing where we moved on to a new story and I kind of invested all my time in a new story and moved on from the last one forgetting that I hadn't covered part two. So sorry about that. Leona and I did like a little intro into my story last week, or I guess now it's been like two weeks. I don't know anymore, I'm so sorry. Two weeks ago or a week ago when I forgot, but here we are, it's part two of Billy Joe Jenkins. I really apologize, I was not intentional. I think in my mind we had just gotten to it

and we just didn't. So I'm gonna give you a brief summary of what happened in part one, previously on ATWD. That was the VHS skipping, I'm sorry, that wasn't me. Because I was rewinding. Okay. In part one, we talked about Billie Joe Jenkins. She was placed in foster care at age nine

with Lois and Sean Jenkins in Hastings, outside of London. On February 15th, 1997, she stayed home alone to paint the patio doors as part of like her chores. When her foster father, Sean ran errands with the other kids, the other daughters. Yes. When Sean returned with his daughters, they found Billy on the patio brutally attacked with a tent stake. And she had had a piece of a plastic bag stuffed up her nose that the neighbor removed.

She had been laying on her back and Sean called 999 saying Billy had had an accident, but when they arrived, they immediately realized it was foul play. A man seen acting strangely in a nearby park was investigated and also had a fetish for plastic bag material and was even found with it in his socks and his underwear when he was arrested. It was determined that was a coincidence

and he was just a man with a mental illness who had been in the wrong place at the wrong time and had basically turned heads. So people kind of, you know, thought maybe it's worth looking into. Fortunately, they realized that was not there was no connection. He had a perfectly good alibi and multiple people had noticed him far away when the murder had occurred, nine days later, fast forward, Sean was arrested after forensic experts found microscopic blood spray on his clothes. And this is her foster father. Right.

Okay. And so as the case unfolded, allegations began surfacing that Sean had been violent toward both Billy and his wife Lois. And then I ended saying that the last, that one of the final pieces of that first, Jesus, sorry, I have like a voice reader thing and sometimes it automatically starts when I start scrolling. And a man just starts talking in my ears.

I'm so sorry. No, well, at the same time, the lawnmower just began. So if I- Geez. we are on edge today, man. I thought that's what you were jumping at. I was like, is it that loud? No, no, I did not even hear that through my own AI man shouting through the computer. Okay. So as the case unfolded, these allegations came out. The last thing that I had said was that in the trial, one of Billy Joe's friends testified that at school, Billy Joe had come, you know, sometimes hiding marks or bruises. Her best friend said she once wore a scarf to cover injuries from Sean's abuse.

On other occasions, she said Sean punched her in the face. And about a month before she was killed, she came to school with bruises on her arms and legs and told her friends, quote, I had an argument with my dad again. You can guess what happened. And that's where we ended part one. And I think the reason it felt like such a conclusion is because you said, well, I'm expecting it to go the only possible way it can go is that he goes away for it at the end. And I said, sorry about plot twists. Yeah, I remember thinking like this feels

like a clean cut situation. Yes, and I think that is why, because it felt right. Like, okay, great, now we got the guy. And we do, to be fair, we do have the guy. As far as I'm concerned, I believe we have the guy. Okay. But part two is Sean's defense. So. Right. Yes. Here we go. Let's hear what he has to say. Yeah. You're gonna love it. I'm gonna just love it. Sean admitted that he sometimes hit the girls with a slipper and even a ruler, but he insisted that the rest of her story and her friend's stories were untrue, and even his version of the truth did not make him a murderer. That's part one.

Okay. He said he only slapped Billy in the face one time, and it wasn't even that hard. I thought he only hit them with slippers and a ruler, but now he's slapping them in the face. And only slapped her once in the face. Okay. And he regretted doing it, so... Wow. You're gonna blame him.

So that kind of negates that whole one, right? Mm-hmm. Um, he dismissed Lois's claims of abuse, that's his wife, as an outright lie. And you want to know how it's airtight, his reasoning. Because he doesn't like her anymore? What? That's pretty dark, but also along the same lines. He argued that a strong, educated woman, such as his wife, would never be able to, or would never endure, would never go through enduring abuse.

So basically saying like, oh, you have to be weak, you know, and uneducated, essentially implying like, my wife is too strong and educated to endure domestic abuse. Only stupid people get abused and my wife is so smart. Yeah, exactly. It's disgusting is what it is.

He said- And I stand by that. Right? And I've always said that. And I've always said that. But it's like a lose-lose, like you're just fucking insulting women. It's just horrible. All of it's horrible.

And it's victim blaming on multiple levels. And completely. Yes, exactly. It's like a very weirdly nuanced, but all bad on every level comment. He said a strong, educated woman would not endure domestic abuse. And he later wrote, and I quote, The idea that a woman making an academic study into institutional abuse would have done nothing about it when it was happening

to her was completely bewildering. Oh, that statement is pretty bewildering, my friend. That's funny. Yeah, that fucking drop quote is a little bewildering, my friend. I also hate that he wrote that down because it means he thought it out and then put it into words.

It's not on the stand. It's like he thought to keep those words. Even worse, he thought it and and then went now that'll get him Now that deserves a place in permanent history I have to write that down because if I forget that I've lost it all. Yeah. Yeah, Eva, please do us the honors write that down No, don't oh gosh. Okay So as for Lois his, the foster mother of Billy Joe, Lois said that Sean had begun acting strange some time ago. He lied about his academic achievements and professional

qualifications on his CV, both to get the deputy headmaster position he held. He had gotten also a recent promotion and he was working at an all boys private school as the headmaster. promotion and he was working at an all boys private school as the headmaster and apparently you know a lot of times obviously people will like exaggerate i mean i assume everyone exaggerates on their resume that's kind of part of writing a resume like just foot just like fudge or like lean one way or another and if you don't do that you're supposed to be doing that out there if you need like permission to like tweak a little bit, sometimes you need it, okay? In my opinion. No, I 100% agree.

Okay, good. I was like, is this a me waiver signing only? Well, Allison, like I love her very much, but it is unbearable how honest of a person she is. And she is currently looking for a new job. She wouldn't put, she wouldn't leave. She was putting in her resume. She was redoing her resume.

And I was like, have you thought about just saying something else? Like, not that it's a bad resume, but I'm like, you could juj it. Like, no one's gonna know. Just like juj it. Like, that's the point. You're supposed to be like putting on a display

of yourself, you know? It's like, you can like sell yourself a little bit, not in a gross way, but you know. And what sucks is that you know all the bad people are doing it already, obviously, because like if the morally relatively neutral people like me are doing it, I'm surely like the wild ones out there doing it. So that feels bad because that feels like an extra uphill battle for finding a job. It was like, well, no, everyone lost their job. So it's not like they can fact check with anyone anyway. So just do what you got to do. It was like, well, no, everyone lost their job. So it's not like they can fact check with anyone anyway.

So just do what you gotta do. It's like Wild West out there. I know, but she's not like us, I guess. You know what? But maybe that suits her. And maybe if you're out there and you feel weird about me saying that, I apologize. Maybe it's not for everybody.

Because I think some people have a harder time with fudging numbers or exaggerating. I don't lean that way. I have a pretty easy time with it. I'm fine with it. If it's going to help me get a job and survive, okay. When it comes to job hunting, it feels sort of like gloves are off. But anyway, all that to say, that is not what I'm applying to this fella right here.

To be clear, that's where we were headed. Not to me saying he did the right thing. He apparently wasn't just lying, saying he worked there a month longer or something like that. If Allison did that, she would cry. No, I know. And now I do feel bad for folks. I wasn't trying to shame you if you're just not...

You don't want to lie. I don't... Don't do it just because I'm bullying you into doing it. I'll bully you. Do it. I will bully you. I'll just say, I'll validate you. If you're like... If you feel guilty about it, I'm here to validate you don't have to feel guilty about it. Unless it's like, real bad, okay? And you should know, you should know.

So, you know, it wasn't a benign lie. He was lying out, like he was making up complete fabrications. Lois felt like this was almost this new pattern emerging, like a new personality trait, that he was just suddenly lying all the time. He had also decided that suddenly he was going to get into politics and so he wrote a manifesto.

Okay, I've never heard of that going well. Thank you. I was like, it's in my mind until proven otherwise, just like the theory of gravity, like it is pretty much always a red flag. Like there's no wiggle room about a manifesto. Let's put it this way. As someone with a constant craving to do something new,

writing a manifesto has never been on the list. You know? And now we're shaming all the people out there who want to write manifestos. I'm just curious, like, what's like your, I would like, I think anyone who's writing manifestos, like, I think they who's writing manifestos, like, I think they should at least give a pitch first.

It's like a friend and be like, this is what it will be about. Is it a green flag? My first question would be, why must it be a manifesto? Why can't it be a novella? Why can't it be a live journal? Why can't it be a whole host of other things that we don't have to call a manifesto?

Can you put it online for others to see or would you be worried about what they'd read? That's also question number two. Yes, that's an important question. Maybe that should be question number one. Then I'll get into question number two after that. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's at least one manifesto out there that is great. I'm sure there are, yeah. But I have, I think in today's climate,

the second I hear manifesto, I think, uh-oh. Amen. Yeah, that's where we stand, I think. That's my religion. That's, and that's my belief, and I've always had that. And that's my belief, and I should be not taxed because of it, so. Yeah, I think if today, if someone in my friend group was like, I'm gonna write a manifesto. I'd be like, um

Can we call something else? Um, can we call the police? Um, can we? You should know better like hold off for a little like is that a weird joke are we like taking the word back? Yeah It's like, is that a weird joke? Are we like taking the word back? Yeah, are we reclaiming Manifesto? Yeah, we're reclaiming the Manifesto. Oh my god, hang on. Now that's interesting. Or is it totally not? I have no clue. Even Beelzebub didn't write a Manifesto. I'll put it that way. Even the devils couldn't get themselves to do it. But you know Beelzebub, he reads like, reads like teenagers manifestos in his tubby.

100%. Like you know that's his like beach read is like teenage angsty manifestos. That's what he reads in the tub. I like to think that he went through, he was on like Zenga at the same time all of us were. Oh, of course. Why else would it have existed? Like that was not a healthy God filled place. Sorry.

Certainly not. That was not a healthy, God-filled place, sorry. Certainly not. That was certainly a place of darkness. It was sacred in the darkest way. Yeah. Did you have a Zenga or did you have a live journal? I had a live journal. I had a Zenga. What did you have? A Zenga.

No wonder we were like ships in the night. I know. Well, I think that was divine intervention from Beelzebubby himself. From Beelzebub, from below. He's like, this Zenga and this Live Journal will find each other one day. Demonic intervention. But not yet.

Yeah. Yeah, it's too soon, even for the demonic forces to take. That's probably what it is. And so he decides he's going to write a fucking manifesto, Lord help us all. And so some of these lies, of course, I have to bring examples, right? From his resume and his manifesto, where he's almost making up a whole new persona. And this is supposed to be kind of a gauge, folks.

Remember when I said you could fudge by a month, or something? That's what I meant, not this. He said he would regularly go to the theater, even though he had not gone to see a play in many years and had never had an interest in theater going, but he made it a big part of his whole identity all of a sudden, and his wife was like,

you don't even know play, you don't even watch plays. Name five plays, yeah. Literally name five plays, exactly. And Hamilton is a musical, and that doesn't count. I just don't understand. There could gonna be one that Lin-Manuel Miranda is working on does not count either. That one actually counts all five. So you're off scoffery.

But it's like strange because when I'm saying like, lie on your resume, I'm not saying like, make up for fabrications. I'm just saying like, you know, fudge in the universe. Well also, you said that he got into politics, like I could see him writing in his live journal or his manifesto, like I am the mayor and it's like

Exactly. It's almost like how delusional can you get or is this delusion? Is it just like so do we do we know like did He like was he going through something? Did he snap did he? So that's kind of what's unclear and I don't know why Lois like And I don't know why Lois like explains it this way. Like, I don't know if it's because she's explaining it this way that it sounds so like alarming. Jarring, yeah. Right, or if it's like.

Because you would think if you're like that close, if all of a sudden it was like a problem, you'd be like, you'd start with like compassion and be like, he's going through it, you know? Like something, yeah, a step before this maybe, but I don't know, maybe they were on, who knows what their personal relationship was like, I don't know.

Well, I mean, she even said he abused her, right? And so like, clearly if he's physically abusive, domestically abusive toward her, who knows what else? He's always had something dark in him. Exactly, he's like holding over her or harming her with. And so, yeah, I mean, it does make sense like, that you'd just be kind of confused, like why are, I assume this guy always had some issues,

but maybe now they're just quote manifesting as a fuckin', I'm a now a theater goer, and it's like, you've never been to a play before, but okay. And so his behavior apparently was so strange that it started to create a rift between them. And so I guess she just kind of wrote it off, as like, whatever.

I mean, honestly, if he's an abusive man, a rift between them is probably not the worst thing anyway. Sure. And she had four daughters to take care of, so she was busy with that. Thanks. So investigators accused Sean of more damning lies than just going to the theater. They actually accused him of several lies

about the day that Billy was killed. So one example, I don't know if you remember, but the item he was allegedly going to the store to get with his daughters was white spirit, which you mentioned sounds like a liquor or something, but is actually a paint thinner. So I do remember you saying that. Not as he confused just now. I thought, oh, a liquor. I just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not to be confused with a beverage. Um, but apparently it's common over in the, in the UK as just a paint,

paint, thinner solvent. We call it apparently white minerals over here, mineral spirits, something like that. I don't really understand. I don't know what it is, but apparently it's something that you just keep around the house like crazy glue. Maybe the people in the UK are like, what's crazy glue?

It's crazy, don't fucking worry. With the K, and that's how you know. Crazy 444 or whatever. We touched on the live journal and you were so respectful. And then all of a sudden you just, the time I put my card down and suddenly wham. I'm always crazy 444. That's just bad.

Do you know how badly I want to get in a time machine just to go on AIM and search up your username and go, you have no idea what's in store for us. And then just a wait message. Remember how we always all thought like we were going toward a better future with cyber bullying? Imagine when they invent time travel and we're all going back in time to like bully each other

by finding like shit like from fifth grade. I would love to go back in time and just say like a random embarrassing thing about you that has yet to happen. So when it does happen to you, it sounds like someone predicted it a long time. Like it happened. Oh my God. Something that stays with you. So when it does happen, you go, that person fucking knew what was going on. Yeah. I think. Leona, come here. Oh, come say hi.

Come say hi. Come say hi. I wanna show everybody your cool sweatshirt. Cause Funko M was with me when we got it. Hi Leona. Can you hear me? Hold on, let me put headphones on. Can you hear me? Leona, what are you doing today? What's the question?

I said what are you doing today? Where'd you just go? To the trampoline park. Wow! Did you jump up and down? My headphones fell off my ears. Oh gosh, Leona put them back on come on Did you jump up and down at the trampoline park? Yeah. Did you jump like this? Did you do that? No that's jumping around, that's hands like this.

Oh, did you fall at the trampoline park or you stayed up? Yeah, I stayed up. Okay, great. That's awesome. I would fall down. I think I'd fall right on my push. I'd go, oh, just like that. What about else did you do? Did you eat any food today? Did you have strawberries? Did you have noodles? Did you have... What did you eat today? Are you all done? What? Are you all done?

Yeah! Okay, say bye! Bye! Bye girl! Bye! Bye! Bye, I love you! Now you can keep talking. Nice.

Yeah, put them on. Perfect. We're going to come back here. We're going to come back up here so you can take a shower. She did jump up and down. I checked. Oh, excellent. Thank you for asking. And she didn't fall. so you should be really lucky because that's Blaze's jeans for sure. So you know what she's been doing to me lately,

which, that's Blaze's jeans, yeah, for sure. So what she's been doing to me, which is like making me crazy, is that she'll ask me to film something, but then she'll act like I'm the one bothering her with my filming. She's such a diva, I love it. No, like really.

And so for just now, it's like, she wants to get on, she's always like asking to be filmed and like talk to people on thing. And then she acts like all embarrassed and is like, my mom made me do this. And it's like, no, I didn't, I would never make you do that. Like I was filming her yesterday because she wanted to show her slime, right?

Like she got slime, she wanted to show it. So she's like, can you film it? So I start filming it. And then I'm like, do you like making videos? She goes, you like making videos. And I was like, I can't, now what am I gonna do? Everyone's gonna think I did that. Did she say YouTube when she got on here?

Because I said, what'd you do today? Or what'd you do today? And I thought she said YouTube. Did she say YouTube? She said you something. Oh, oh no, she said to me, sorry, she said you talk. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. She wanted me to talk or to tell.

I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. That unfortunately has not happened, or fortunately, I guess, because Blaze is currently the parent of the day, which means they're just doing activities and wholesome things that will make her brain grow. That's beautiful. I did ask her what she ate today and she didn't respond.

So I'm wondering if she's had nothing. I can assure you that's not true. You're starving your kid? Should we talk about it on the air? I mean, I'm glad she didn't answer because she probably would have said like half a donut and I would have been like, uh-oh. The rest of mommy's black coffee she spilled on the floor.

Yeah, yeah. The chips I found, Gio eating, no, no, no. It's not that bad, I promise, okay. This is the dumbest show. I don't even know where we are. Okay, so, oh right, he lied about, oh my God, okay. He lied about being a theater goer. There was a rift between them.

You were making a funny joke and then I got distracted by my child. I'm so sorry about that. Oh, the White Spirit. They went to buy the White Spirit and it's like paint thinner and we talked about Crazy Glue. Okay. Oh, and then we talked about Zango for a while.

Oh, because he had a manifesto. We've had a lot of good times today. Wow, we've had, we've been through it all. Now, point being, his alibi was he was getting White Spirit, this home craft glue or paint thinner with his three daughters when Billy Joe was murdered. Now, the investigators thought that was a little strange because they found easily accessible white spirit

in the house in the paint supplies. Right, so why is he going to get more? Yeah, at the same time, Red Handed made this point, and I think it's a good point. Like sometimes you're like, I don't have crazy glue, or I don't have girl, we're out of super glue or whatever. We're out of masking tape. You don't even realize.

And you like just run to the hardware store or. That's Alison's favorite game is to restock up on things. Double thing. We have fully stocked. Precisely. I'm like, I couldn't remember if it was completely full or completely empty. And it's usually, it was completely full.

So I bought another one, which is. Okay, so Alison and I, we, when I say fight, no, we did not get in a fight, but I'm gonna make it more dramatic usually it was completely full. So I bought another one which is okay. So Alison and I we I when I say fight No, we did not get in a fight, but I'm gonna make it more dramatic than it was we got in a fucking fight because I Just organized which I should send you a picture because I'm so proud of it I just organized our whole little like baking area and they're all in like matching containers when you moved into your first apartment I hope you remember that this is the exact thing you told us all when you moved in like years ago Same thing you organized the kitchen people don't change Circle of life well everything's like in like it looks very like you know like an adult put it together

It's like the only adult thing I have to my name is that like all the baking shit is organized and labeled and wow That is and we have exactly enough baking powder for the container i have for baking powder this girl went out and bought more baking powder and then like a week later bought another thing of baking powder and i'm like are you gonna you're gonna kill me i like i can't do anything like i can't am i gonna go buy another container i need to? I need to comment on this. Okay. Yesterday, I took a picture of four baking powders I found because Leona and I, for some God forsaken reason, decided to make cookies yesterday evening.

And she and I have not even made cookies in like months, but we decided to make cookies and I was like, oh, we need baking powder. I found four open containers. And also like, what are you gonna, like baking powder? Like I'm not a baker. You know why? I think it's baking powder. I found four open containers. And also like, what are you gonna like baking powder? Like I'm not much of a baker. I think it's baking soda. You get it confused with baking powder. Then you double that. You get mix them up. You buy both just in case.

Now suddenly you got six of them. But still the baking powder adds to people who certainly don't cook or bake often. Now we've got so much baking powder. I promise you it will be around until I'm in my late 40s. Yeah, well I had to throw one away that expired in 2020. And I was like, uh-oh, how many have been just floating around, you know? Of all things, I guess it's not the worst, I don't know, least shelf stable, but still.

I'm sure there's, she could cheat on me, but at the same time, like this felt bad, but this hurt my feelings. This felt like cheating on you. It certainly was to that level. It's her version of cheating on you. I was like, if you ever bring baking powder into this house, we're done. You should put like a salt circle around the house just to like prevent any further baking soda entry. I'm sure there's a hex you could do. I think, I think I actually did ban her from any baking. I'm like, whatever you need, you come to me. I will tell you. Oh, you have the bathroom key to the baking cabinet.

100%. You have the bathroom key to the baking cabinet. So anyway, I can relate to the getting things you don't need, hence the white spirit. Okay, I'm so glad. I also can relate to that. I wonder why it took Red-Handed only four seconds to say that and it took us 16.

I'm like, how far did I get? One bullet. It's my favorite and worst. And worst, it's a blessing and a curse in the most literal demonic way. Oh God, okay. Yeah, okay, just go. Ooh, so they go to get White Spirit, allegedly, right?

Because now the investigators are like, you already had White Spirit. But what's more is that apparently when they got to the store, Sean hadn't even brought his wallet. So they didn't even buy any White Spirit and got back in the car and got home, which was also like, well, that's strange. I mean, it's not that strange, but it's also like considering all the other stuff, it's worth noting.

Now, finally, the daughters, the daughters recollection of going to the store. Last time I did this story, you commented and asked about the timeline and what it looked like. And I said it was up for debate because it is not consistent among people's storylines. So wouldn't you know it, Sean's story, Sean's timeline differs from his own daughter's timeline. And they were all on the quick trip to the grocery store together.

But somehow his story is completely different from their version. So Sean's daughters told investigators it was odd because when they went to the store, their dad drove around the park twice... Hmm. ...to get there, which... Like to kill time or something?

Yeah, exactly. Like, why would we take the time to do that? It doesn't make sense. Sean claimed he drove around the park because his car was facing the wrong direction to go to the that, it doesn't make sense. Sean claimed he drove around the park because his car was facing the wrong direction to go to the store, but he had literally always done the opposite, like he had never done this maneuver before that the daughters were describing. They were like, he's never done that.

It was very strange. We noticed that. It was certainly noticeable, which means it's not common. It was noticeable he went the other direction and then went back around again. Like it was just weird as if he was just circling the block a few times, you know?

So very odd. Now the prosecution is kind of leaning toward the theory of Sean fabricating a need for a trip, like basically making up the story and then, uh, driving around the block to kill time, like you suggested to make it more believable that a stranger had time to kill time, like you suggested, to make it more believable that a stranger had time to kill Billy while the four of them were out, which would explain why, or I'm sorry,

the three of them were out, which would explain why he didn't have his wallet. Like maybe he was just, this was all a ploy, so he didn't even plan to buy. But then if you were planning it, wouldn't you bring your wallet so that you had a receipt to show like what time you were at the store?

Oh, but maybe that defeats his whole plan because. Maybe I mean, also, like if you're going to do something that takes a long time, why would you just go to a store to pick something up? Like, why wouldn't you go to like lunch with your kids or something? I think he needed. Well, if I don't remember, if you recall the specifics of the crime, but it was like really opportunistic and like spur of the moment kind of passion.

And so I think the theory was more that like in a panic, he's like, we need to buy some white spirit because Billy Joe was painting and she spilled it. And the story was that she had spilled paint on some of the window and the patio tiles because she was painting and she spilled it. And the story was that she had spilled paint on some of the window and the patio tiles because she was painting these doors. And so he was like, kids get in the car, like we need to buy white spirit from the store,

for hardware store. Went around like the wrong direction or a new direction to them, went around an extra time that was noticeable to the children, got to the store, forgot his wallet, they all pile back in the car, they go home. Now, do you remember the other weird thing he did, which is that he climbed into his car

and sat in his car after the EMTs arrived? Yes, and was refusing to answer questions or something, or was it just that he was sitting there? He just like went into his car and at first they didn't really take any notice of it because there was an emergency they were trying to but obviously looking back somebody had reported like this guy just went to his so they definitely notated it like this guy went into his car and didn't tell us why. But now on the stand, he does have to tell them why. And he claimed that he went and sat in his car. By the way, the prosecution believed it was because if they found blood in the car, he

could now say, oh, well, it's because I saw Billy and tried to help her and then I got in the car. That's why there's blood in the car. You know, maybe if he had killed her before the white spirit errand, then maybe he was afraid he had accidentally gotten evidence in his car. And so you jump back in and say, see now I've like contaminated the crime scene basically.

That was their theory. Of course, he did not say that that was the reason he got into his car. In fact, he claimed the reason that he got in the car was to put the roof up of the convertible. But it turns out that on that specific model of car, you have to close it from the outside. You can't do it from the inside.

And also, why is that the thing you're doing right now? Also that, great point. That didn't even phase you. I'd be like, there's other things to prioritize right now. Certainly did not even phase me because I be like, there's other things to prioritize right now. Certainly not, did not even phase me, because I'm like, my brain just was like... immediate lie. But it didn't even occur to me, like, how stupid of a lie it was. Like, because like, why else, why the fuck would you be doing that?

Yeah, everyone would be like, can you come out and we can discuss a murder, please? Like, that shows how out of touch you are with like, real empathy or real like, sense, because like, wouldn't you say, I went in the car because I was hyperventilating and I was having a panic attack? There's more believable scenarios if you're lying. I honestly thought it was a valid thing he did if he was like, I'm just shutting down

because I don't know how to handle this. You're so right. It hadn't even occurred to me because to me I was like, well, who cares why he's going in the car that much? I mean, obviously it's weird. And if I understand that they would have to know. I know if I witnessed a murder that I was legally responsible for, guardian-wise, I would be like,

I have to sit down in silence and fucking think. Like that should have just been the answer. I agree. And because it wasn't, I find that kind of shady. Like I'm glad they asked, honestly. I find that a little bit absurd that he would say like, I went to close the convertible and they're like, your car that is your car that you own. I guess it could be one of those things where like you're like so distraught that you like

go into like a task mode or try to distract yourself, like you're in a denial phase. Yeah, I don't think it was presented as that. I think it was presented as very much just like a logic, oh, before we went to the hospital, I wanted to put the roof of the car up or something like that. And they're like, well.

Yeah, the last thing I'd be thinking about is the roof of a car. I know, so that is very sensible and should have been my first thought. But my first thought keeps going back to like, you just opened the roof. Like, that's not even a good lie. Like, you just opened it to go to the store, presumably. And now you're like, you don't think they're going to realize that you can't close it from whatever.

I just. Makes sense. I know what you're saying. It just baffles me that people think they can just realize that you can't close it from whatever. I just... It makes sense. I know you're saying. It just baffles me that people think they can just lie so blatantly. Like the fact that he's like, oh they're not gonna look up the model of car. It's like, well, well, back then maybe he's bragging like, oh my car roof slides from the... Could it? I mean, I know this is always my slides from that. Could it could it I mean, I know this is always my question. But like, could it be a narcissist thing where he's like, I just wanted to see how far I could get away with it. And like,

because maybe right, because like, maybe he's saying like, oh, they'll never catch. I mean, that's kind of what it reads, right? Because like, I don't know if you remember this other part where they were like, gonna arrest him. And he's like, can I just shave real quick? And they're like, yes, yes, no. And then they're like, he's like, oh, is this gonna take long? And they're like, we're arresting you.

Which is why part of me is like, maybe he hadn't snapped and he's got like some dark shit going on, but maybe like when it actually happened, he snapped and like just dissociated and just went like, nothing's wrong here. Oh, right. And was like, I'm just gonna go like do my,

yeah, maybe, yeah. And like, do you remember the other fun fact? From last episode that he like had a copy of silence of the lambs on the table and he's like I'll bring this and then He's like actually on second thought I probably shouldn't bring this and they were like Which like that feels like another like the car roof situation where it's like Why are you wondering if you're gonna even have time to yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's where it's like, why are you wondering if you're going to even have time to read? Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. It's like, it's like, yeah, agreed. It's like something isn't right.

Like if my foster kid just got murdered, I wouldn't even be able to think. I wouldn't think got to get myself an activity in case I get bored. What are you talking about? Yeah. No boredom here. I am in full panic. Yeah, that like wigs me out somehow, exactly. Yeah, really weird. So they brought that up, there was no way for him to explain that way. Anyway, detectives, of course, like I said,

accused him of trying to hide blood evidence by saying he got climbed in the car, that's why it's there. Although they did not, it's worth also noting that they didn't find any blood in the vehicle. Sean also claimed that he and Annie remained in the car while Lottie went inside and put her clarinet away. So there's no way he could have killed Billy.

This was sort of like in the in-between, they were all running errands and Lottie dropped off her clarinet, jumped back in the car to get the white spirit. That was his story. But that's not the girl's story. According to them, Sean did go inside the house. So there is a way he could have killed Billy Joe, presumably.

In light of this, Sean was like, okay, yeah, sure. Technically, I went up to the front door and then they like pushed him on it. And he was like, okay, yeah, I went inside and the front door and then they like pushed him on it. And he was like, okay, yeah, I went inside and I stood in the hallway. And they were like, okay. And he said, yeah, I stood there, but I could hear her music,

but I couldn't see Billy at all. It's just weird like that you're even making this like a, it's just, something's off. It's weird. Yeah, like what's the point of even saying any of that? Exactly. It's like you've already been caught saying, he said he waited in the car. Now he's just kind of like slowly

entering closer to the crime scene. It's like, this makes you look more suspicious. And by the way, investigators had been at the crime scene. They knew that if you stood in that hallway, literally right in front of you are the patio doors. Like there is no way he wouldn't have have seen her she would have been right there. So it didn't even make sense as a lie Anyway, well, he obviously wouldn't have seen her if he was preoccupied with like having a shave or something You're so right and he was very preoccupied. He was only on chapter 13 of Science and the Lambs and he was shaving

I'll tell you the only way that any of that makes sense is if he literally snapped and just fully just like went into like, I want I need something to control. I need a semblance of control. I'm going to go and like just totally like everything in front of him vanished. But like that requires like an intense traumatic event that he allegedly is like responsible for. So yeah, right. So that's like his own doing anyway.

If he's an abuser, a physical abuser, violent with his wife and his kids, it's just, eugh. So in any case, they're like, that doesn't make any sense. Here is the layout of the house. If you're standing here, you would see her. The jury got to literally visit the house during the trial because they wanted to be so clear about how the layout of the house was that even I now, watching like two documentaries, know exactly what it looks like because the jury was taken there to see the view and say,

okay, he claimed to stand right here and not interact or see Billy. And the jury was like, eww, not looking good. Lois claimed she noticed Sean coaching their daughter Annie on what to say in order to back up his story that he never went inside and that they weren't at the house for very long. One detective said Lois described listening to Sean tell Annie, quote, don't forget, we were always together.

Cause she had been in the one in the car. But had to like, to have to prompt that is scary also. He's saying it to her of like, before you fucking mess this up for me. Yes, yeah. And so that's what Lois testified that she heard him saying that to their daughter. And so Lois also said Sean would separate Annie from the other children and repeatedly go over the timeline Like to like yeah, you have to drill it into her if you have to coach

Someone on what to say then you probably it's probably not what they would say naturally especially like when You're already inconsistent, like the kids are already saying a different story than the dad about the timeline and the white spirit. Anyway, so you had asked about the timeline last time, not last episode, two episodes ago, and I had said something like, oh, it's up for debate or it's been debated.

So on the 9-on-9 call, Sean said he had been out of the house for as long as 45 minutes. Like that was at the scene of the murder. He called 9-9-9, they said, how long are we away? He said about 45 minutes. Okay. They asked the girls, they say, we are gone about 10 minutes.

And that included driving that loop extra. Wild. So the prosecution accused him of stretching or exaggerating the time to make it more plausible that a stranger broke in, like we had talked about. But Sean argued that he was just overwhelmed and confused, and so he just got the time wrong. But wouldn't you in that moment be like, we just left,

we were just gone. I mean, I don't know, whatever. Maybe my brain works differently, but I'm like, I don't know. I'm 10 and 45 feels like a big. That's a big stretch. Right. So, you know, this was another inconsistency. Basically, they're just like piling up all this stuff to be like, it's not looking good, you know, and plant some sort of

in the jury. Yeah. Sure. So Sean was also accused of purposefully avoiding assisting Billy in any way, which is like really dark to me. Yeah, so like maybe he watched her suffer? Well, they're sort of saying like, he didn't even try to like save her. Oh, I see. So like, if he found her, he didn't try to- He didn't even try to save her. If he found her, he didn't try to...

He didn't even try. Exactly. Because your first thought would be to try to fix it and save them if there's any chance. Exactly. And the neighbor came over and Denise Lancaster, and she pulled that luster back out. But he went into his car, right? And so it's like, oh, you know, at the time it's like, okay, maybe he was like gonna throw up or maybe he was freaked out. But like, then he's like, oh no, I was just like opening the convertible

or closing the, it's just weird. Yeah, if he really stuck with the, I was in full fucking shock and panic, a lot of this would be- Yeah, it would have been a much better explanation, exactly. I totally agree. Yeah. And so that like scares me a little

that he didn't even have the like thought to think, I don't know. But anyway, so an example of like how he didn't assist her at all, the 999 operator instructed him how to move Billy into a recovery position. And when paramedics arrived, she was still just lying on her back how he found her. And it just like it's so sad, like whether he did this or not, it's like what the fuck they're on this or not, it's like, what the fuck? They're on the phone telling you they're like, if there's any possible chance, here's what to do. And it's like, you don't even do it.

It's just really dark. Which if he didn't do it, and he was just in a full, just psychosis of like, not knowing, like just fully lost his marbles I would hope that today he still feels like incredible guilt like like I could have tried this right like the what ifs I would at least eat me alive you know I know yeah and that's part of it too is like there's just none of that so it's it makes these look so much worse right cuz? Because it's like, oh, there's not even like he doesn't even care like enough to make a good reason why.

Like it just all adds insult to injury almost. But yeah, there's no guilt. In fact, well, we'll get to it, but he's just such a douchebag. OK, right. He is. So when Paramedics arrived, she, she's lying like he found her. He also said that he felt Billy's face and she was still warm and he believed she was still alive, which again, like if you're feeling her

and saying she's alive, she's alive, and the operator's like, then turn her into the position I'm asking you to. Yeah, they keep her alive. Like it doesn't add up because if you're in such shock, then it's like, well, then why are you touching her? And like.

Also, if you're saying she's alive and now she's not alive, it's like what happened in the interim there? Well, yeah, he didn't move her body. So if she technically was alive, and that's what he's saying, then he could have had a chance to help save her. It's like, it doesn't look good no matter what, you know? I would also panic as like, is that part part of a is that some sort of manslaughter crime or something like being like that like not like not helping save her if she already was alive.

There is some sort of law like that I know that but I think I mean you really it does look awfully suspicious of your given instructions. Like you hear those stories about like, what do you call it, dispatcher saying like, do CPR and they're trying to explain it. And then they just like won't do it. And you're like, what in the fuck? It feels like a crime for sure. It feels weird and wrong.

And even if it's not a crime, like it still looks really shady if you're the suspect of the murder. Like if you're suspected of committing the murder It looks pretty shady that you didn't try to help even when you were given like explicit instructions On how to save your daughter's life. Like it just does not add up at all to me and Anyway, you know whatever for what it's worth. He had said she was still warm, but when the neighbor Denise Lancaster felt her cheek

She said that her cheek had been cold to the touch. Oh yeah. It was also revealed that minutes after Sean, well, by the way, I should note, one of the reasons that I'm assuming they're thinking he didn't try and assist her in any way is because he knew she was already dead, right? Like he knew she couldn't be saved anyway.

So when he's saying she's alive, he's like making it up to sound like she's still hanging on. And so that I think I'm assuming that was one of their running theories, but of course, you know, not according to him. It was also revealed that minutes now, this is might be the most damning thing. Well, unless you go with the shock theory again,

but because he wasn't really acting in shock and was calling and was like communicating clearly with everyone, I don't buy that. But this is pretty damning. So it was revealed that minutes after Sean found Billy's dead body, and just to give it a little more like clarity, he even described a red bubble of blood popping and that's how he got aerosolized blood spatter on him. That's how close and intimate he was with this body, right, of his daughter. Yeah.

So it was revealed that minutes after he discovered her body, a colleague of his came by, Sean opened the door, chatted with him for several minutes, but never mentioned that anything was wrong or that Billy was dead on the patio. And at the very least, that there would be splatter all over him.

Well, it wasn't even all over him. It was like really light. That's why he at first like claimed like, oh, I wasn't near whatever. They find blood and he's like, oh, that's cause a It popped on me. A blood bubble popped on me. So it was like really light.

It wasn't discernible, but he just completely like, like, but, but you're right. If it's shock and he's going through the motions, that does track. So it's sort of like that does, I guess, grant you some leniency, but then with everything else added together, it just starts like to fall apart. Was there ever actually someone who came to the door and like to be have their testimony that like?

Yeah, they were like, he just told we just chatted about work for several minutes and then I left. Yeesh. OK. It's like it's like it's like alarming because. Yeah, of course, in shock, you would do things that you think you wouldn't do or you kind of dissociate. Yes, I totally understand that. But it's sort of like that on top of like, lying to the paramedics on the phone and like, changing your story. Were you there? Were you not there? Were you gone 10 minutes? Were you on 45? Why are you coaching your daughter? You're already hitting your wife and your children. Why are you like, chatting like nothing's wrong after discovering the body?

But you're talking to your friend and then also you just go sit in the car to fix the roof? Which like, which that's another question like it doesn't matter the other day. It's such a small question But like I can't believe we could that's what I kept getting stuck on, this fucking roof. But also it's like, have you- have we talked to anyone who- Like, has he always sat in the car when he changes the roof? Like, like, is this a new thing? Because I feel like at some point beforehand he's changed the roof before and realized, oh I can't do it when I'm sitting in the car because it's an outside situation. Well that's what the whole thing I was saying is like you just opened it, like before you went driving

and you have to do it from the outside. I don't know why that one gets me so bad. Opened it from outside, because it's so stupid and it's stupid on every layer. Like it's stupid on the layer I noticed and then it was stupid on the layer you noticed and it's like all of it, you could have come up with a million better explanations and better lies

But it feels lazy like a lazy lie. It's like no I was just closing the roof. It's like yeah, but fuck Okay, I just I sorry. I mean, I'm not sorry You're good, I'm with you. I'm not Okay So yeah, the colleague, he just, it was argued that sure, he was in shock and he was going through the motions. So finally the defense posed a crucial question.

How did Sean kill Billy in a matter of minutes and then calmly walk back out of the car, out to the car to Annie and Lottie without any visible blood on him? Cause like you were saying you'd think if he had something to do with this, he'd be covered in blood. At least sweat. Implausible. Right.

So that was the one question that like nobody could really answer. But in July of 1998, the jury reached a unanimous decision and cleared Sean guilty. He was sentenced to life in prison. In July 2002, so that was four years later, Lois, his wife, had been remarried, so his ex-wife, and she moved to Tasmania, Australia with her new husband and the four daughters, and her four daughters. Sean's defense team made appeals, but they were denied until July of 2004 when the verdict was reviewed and overturned. And so this was only six years after he was sent to prison for murdering his daughter.

A retrial was ordered to consider counter evidence about the blood spray. And on top of that, the defense believed that Annie and Lottie had been like coached by Lois, and then the other team thought they were coached by Sean. So they were all kind of in argument about the first trial, and basically they brought it back up for review. Now, Charlotte and Annie, the sisters, are 18 and 20. And they are summoned from Australia.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't say now. I meant then, now in the story. But yes, then. So now sisters Charlotte and Annie, age 18 and 20, are summoned from Australia as witnesses. And to give you some perspective, this is now eight years later. So Charlotte was 10 and Annie was 12.

Neither of them had strong recollections of the day Billy was killed. And they didn't remember saying certain things that Lois claimed they had said, but it had been eight years and they were little kids. So it was hard to remember. Ultimately, the jury could not agree upon a verdict and the case went to trial a third time.

Wow, okay. This time the prosecution submitted new evidence Ultimately, the jury could not agree upon a verdict and the case went to trial a third time. Wow. Okay. This time, the prosecution submitted new evidence that bone and flesh fragments, as well as pieces of metal, were discovered in the microscopic blood spray on Sean's clothes. Ooh, uh-oh. They claimed this could not possibly have come from the aerosol respirator out of her nose, the bubble that he explained. But the evidence was submitted too near the trial date and it

would have taken far too long according to the judge to delay, to give them time to research the data with their own experts on the defense side. So to avoid further delay, the judge ruled not to allow the evidence at trial. And to be fair, there is something to be said because blood spray forensics are already a bit controversial to be used as evidence. There's like legitimacy issues there. They are often claimed as being no more scientific than polygraphs. And just as like a little evidence on that, in 2022, a study supported by the US National Institute

of Justice found that practicing expert blood stain pattern analysts were wrong in their observations and conclusions at an error rate as high as 34%. Wow. So that's the margin of error we're dealing with when we're doing blood spatter analysis. It's basically one in three is... Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Or two in three. Can't be, is like inconclusive or is incorrect. But it was still like highly controversial to not include the evidence because it did sound so damning that if they did find pieces of metal in his blood,

then maybe that would have really turned the tables. But the jury could not reach a decision and they did not order a fourth trial. So Sean Jenkins was formally acquitted and released from prison. I did not see it going that way at all. I know, I know. Outside the courthouse, Maggie Coster and Bev Williams,

Billy's aunts by birth, attacked Sean punching him and kicking him. And then they turned to a camera and said, "'Justice didn't do it, so we had to do it ourselves.'" Okay. Okay. That's all I have to say about that. Okay.

One of Billy's aunts also shouted, it's not over yet Jenkins, you child killer. In 2012, Shawn Jenkins, he tried to sue for wrongful imprisonment and he lost that settlement of, he tried to claim as much as 500,000 pounds. Oh my. Just a cool casual half a mil. Yeah, yeah. And thankfully he was denied. Billy's father, Bill, had since passed away from cancer, but his wife said he would have been thrilled that Sean did not receive that. I like to think maybe he had some intervention involved

from the afterlife, but apparently his wife said he would have been so thrilled because he was 100% sure that this man had been responsible for his daughter's death, even if the courts didn't agree. Unfortunately, Billy's family couldn't file a civil suit against him for murder either or for killing their daughter because the statute of limitations on filing had passed while Sean was in prison and how would they know that it would get overturned, you know? So it feels kind of unfair.

Now for what it's worth, Sean has sworn he will not rest until Billy's killer is found. Get a life. In case you didn't hear the eye roll Christine made. Yeah, get a life, dude. He has since published a book, of course he has, about his experience. Manifesto or? A manifesto!

No, that's a different thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a manifesto, not a book. Since Sean was acquitted, many people have undertaken amateur investigations online and accused dozens of other people, including Billy's own foster sisters, which I'm like, I mean, I don't know.

It's not unheard of, but one of them was a 10-year-old girl. I don't know. It sounds like a lot of Reddit sleuthing. Police urge anyone with any information about Billy's death to come forward, and they really hope that someday advancing forensic technology could close the case. You know, if it's not Sean, I apologize for thinking it was you, but also I don't apologize

for calling you a douchebag because you are an abuser. You're still an abusive person. Yeah. Yeah. So, and seemingly a really like just kind of shitty person. So, a really like just kind of shitty person. So police urge anyone to come forward, hopefully we find some answers. Billy's best friend Holly spoke of her grief in one of the documentaries and has like a photo of Billy with the family dog who was wearing Billy's glasses in the picture.

And she like has it there in her house and she always takes it with her when she moves. And her other friend, Laura said she wondered if they would be watching Billy on TV and stage and movies today if she were alive. So, you know, on top of everything else, just a lot of what ifs and what could have been and should have, could have, would have,

because of the fostering situation and all that, that kind of added a lot of pain for both sides of the family. Remember when the foster mother came to the funeral despite explicitly being asked not to? Oh yeah, oh I remember having a whole thing about that last time. Oof, it was like, talk about like in poor taste, you know?

Like the birth mother asked kindly, who was paying for the funeral and burial, like asked kindly for you to not attend and then you made a whole show of it. Yeah, yes, 100%. It's just icky. Anyway. I really, I didn't see, I did not see him being,

I really thought you were just gonna tell me like his side We were both gonna have a laugh and then it was me anyway. He's still in jail. I mean listen for all I know he's a rejuvenated soul and things are better and I can only hope and what have you but all I know is He's out there and having a good time and I hope I didn't say too many bad things about him because I don't want to get in trouble. I think if he's starting out as a confirmed abuser, then it's-

You know what? Right, self-identified. He said I only hit them a few times and it wasn't hard. So yeah. Yeah, it doesn't start good for you at that point. Good point. Good point. So we were, you know, it, it definitely pushed us. Uh, uh,

I don't know what the right word is. It moves our opinion of you a different way on that alone. Yeah. Pushes the needle. That's not what they say. Moves the needle. Moves the needle. Pushes the needle sounds scary. Nevermind. Yeah. Oh, well a good part two. I'm glad I waited two whole weeks for it I know see I wanted to keep you on edge and myself apparently Um next week, I promise i'm gonna finish my story and it's a shorter

This was the longest part of it. I just want I feel next week. I'll start part four of my next story You should start a part four and the next week do the part one and then it's like a big puzzle. Yeah, exactly. You have to figure it out. Like one of those annoying ones where you slide them. Yeah. Oh, I can't stand those.

Don't even get me started. I can't stand it. I've never figured out how to even do them. They make me so mad at myself and the world. If someone said, you have a year to solve this easy level slide puzzle and the entire world will have universal healthcare, I would not be able to do it. I would be a failure to everybody. The Elzebub would come our way and say, my faithful servants,

take this slide puzzle and don't finish it. A slide puzzle is at, to me, a slide puzzle and a Rubik's cube are at the exact same level of difficult. And they're both Satan's work. Yes, yes. They're both the work of the devil. 100%. Yeah.

Okay, well, if you would like to hear us keep yappin', you can do that at Yappy Hour if you go find us. What's his website? Is it patreon.com slash atwwd podcast? Yes. Yes. Cool. Yeah.

If you want to hear more of this. I'll talk about when I went to Cracker Barrel the other day. Oh. Yeah. If you want to hear more of this. I'll talk about when I went to Cracker Barrel the other day. Oh, great. A Kentucky Cracker Barrel. I am sure everything- It was actually- Excuse me.

It was an Indiana Cracker Barrel. Oh. Well, I'm sure all you have to say is wholesome things. Yeah, it was. So we'll go chat about that. And until then, come see us on tour. We've got 13 more shows. But I guess when this comes out, we'll have like 11, 10 more shows.

Yeah, something like that. And and yeah, we'll see over there. And that's why we drink.