And That's Why We Drink - E434 A Haunted Pamphlet Collection and the Invention of Forensic Husbandry

Episode Date: June 1, 2025

It’s Episode 434 and is that a group of shadow people behind Em?! This week Em takes us back to 1600’s England for the Mowing-Devil or Strange News out of Hartford-shire, aka the possible first mention of crop circles? Then Christine covers the sad and unfortunate case of Allison Jackson-Foy and Angela Nobles Rothen from North Carolina. And do you all have any guesses what Leona might get Christine for her birthday from in front of her school? …and that’s why we drink! Links to photos:The Mowing Devil Woodcut PamphletStrange Signes from Heaven Book Title PageAllison Jackson-Foy and Angela Nobles Rothen___________________Right now, And That’s Why We Drink listeners can save 30% on their first order of Cornbread Hemp! Just head to http://cornbreadhemp.com/DRINK and use code DRINK at checkout. For 50% off your order, head to DailyLook.com and use code DRINK. Listeners of And That's Why We Drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting FayNutrition.com/DRINK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Get your hot honey McRisbee today. Only at McDonald's. Hello to you and me. Hello. Sorry, it's been a while since we recorded. I feel like my body's falling apart. My everything's falling apart. I'm sorry. Hi. Hello This isn't that's why we drink. We're back. I'm sorry for the two delays I'm just in a lot of pain all the time and it's it's and had to do all the ads It's been a it's been a doozy. So I like doing the ads you have yet to hear the one I did

for cat food I didn't hear the one I did for cat food. Haven't you? Oh God, I can't wait. Yeah, I have yet to hear that. I did use the said cat food and the cats really have become deranged about it. So I feel like whatever you said is probably accurate. I didn't say anything.

That's just what Juniper and Moonshine said on the ad. Oh, they got on the horn. Okay, I didn't realize. They said they had plans. I didn't realize it was like doing this podcast. I didn't want them to. They, it was against my will. Thank you. They that they I'm glad to know that they don't just You know like to to insert themselves in my life, but your life too without asking no No, what's going on behind you there? I feel like that those just appeared

Are those to have those been there the whole time? Oh my God. I thought you- Sorry. My back is- The giant shadow figures? Right, why do I think you meant a whole group of people standing behind you? Who's, what's the party? No. So, okay, I've shown you these before, I think. I'm actually- You have,

I haven't seen them hung up until this week, I think. Alison meant well, but I hadn't hung them up yet because I wanted to like, you see like the white part in the like I wanted to fix that of course that's not like a border. That's one shit paper Yeah, so and I don't know how to take them down and I can't take them down until she comes back in My god is this your fucking that the way that the microphone just cut out because it The audio peaked and I just I just had to watch your face for clues three months is what three months

is a crazy is she there already though yes she's there yeah so okay just me and is she liking it as a nanny in the first five days it feels like I would be really not liking it but I feel like Allison maybe you would know best certainly um I feel like every day is the type. You would know best, certainly. I feel like every day I get a different answer about that. Interesting. Well, that's actually probably not surprising. Yeah, it'll probably be ups and downs, huh?

Yeah, well, I think because I don't know enough about baby Snow if this is common or not. I know babies sleep a lot. I don't know if this baby's sleeping more than other babies, but the way that she's describing it, it sounds like this baby is only ever asleep. That's great. Tell her to enjoy this part while it lasts because three months in it's not going to be like this anymore. Well, the baby is either sleeping nonstop or crying nonstop, which does sound very like common, but I think it's just obviously a lot once you're

going to be jarring. Yeah. You know better than anyone. It's certainly during some babies cry a lot like Leona wasn't colicky or anything and didn't cry much. But some babies cry a lot. So I feel like with my sister, she cried every second of every day. And I think some babies are just a little more... I think it's more like she will only sleep with skin-on-skin contact.

So Allison can't do anything. Oh yeah, that's hard. So there have been days where Allison has texted me and she's like, we're never having children. And then there's other days. And then there's other days. She's like, I'm shirtless with this baby on me and I don't like it.

There are other days where she's like, it's not as bad as I said the other day, but also I am very sleepy. Actually, it sounds like she's really getting the hang of it. That sounds exactly perfectly exactly how I text Blaze every day. We shouldn't have done this Just kidding. I'm having a good time

That's how I feel with Hank every other five minutes. I'm like, what are we thinking? Yeah By the way, one of the reasons I drink is he has pink eye again. So I don't know where he's getting it from So now I feel like I have to like deep clean all fabric. How in the world does this dog keep getting this conjunctivitis? I don't know but it's like it's just like pouring out of he just keeps leaking it's disgusting he seems totally fine with it I'm the one with a problem with it I so answer your question yeah just your question about the wall for other people there's three of them so these are I can't say too much without triangulating myself but my

house used to be owned by the Warner Brothers lot. And it was like an apartment building, not an apartment building. It was one of the apartment houses that they would rent out to vaudeville actors. And so that's pretty cool. Where I'm in is the kitchen. And so as a little nod to like being like a studio lot house, these are the three studios, original commissary menus from the 20s and 30s.

Did you, so where did you come, did you print these or did you purchase them? No, there's a company, God of course now I wish I knew the, I think it's literally called like vintage menus.com or something. That's fun. But they're at like every art fair we go to, they seem to always be on the roster.

And I've been staring at them forever. And I actually bought these when we lived in our apartment. I was like one day in our house, I'm hanging these up in our house, not knowing we would even be a studio lot house. Relevant to the actual menus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like a little nod to like,

oh, you know, back in the day, this actually was a part of Warner Brothers. That's so cool. And that it worked out like that. It's like, you knew, you know, and all the food is disgusting, too, because it's from the 20s and 30s. Oh, yeah. What's your favorite thing on there? I know I've asked you this before. I feel like before they were hung up. But I think we talked about it actually in in a yappy hour at one point. We must have. Yeah, it's all like it's all just old school stuff.

It's like boiled steak and a yam sherbet. Boiled steak. Uh, lima beans, like things that people no one order anymore. That's some point. Maybe I'll take a picture of them and we can like post them. OK, I'm super amped about this because is it called a vintage menu art? Maybe. Yeah, yeah, because I'm looking in here And they have them from all over the world and all over you type in like your own state and everything

Oh, and I'm gonna have the time of my life here. Unfortunately, there's no oh other USA. Maybe I'm in there Um, wow, these are amazing. I love them. I just wish that they Sized them properly to a picture frame because I have to like cut them and figure out. Oh well, you know, if they were serving Lima beans back then, I think they weren't probably thinking about what like size frames Michaels would offer in the future. Michelles. Michelles. Mind your fucking mouth, actually. My mistake. My huge mistake. I apologize.

Wow, Pig and Whistle Atlanta. These are, you guys have to at, oh my God, the original pancake house from the 1950s. I just looked at the dessert for Warner Brothers and it's a walnut cake and orange marmalade preserves. That feels like literally what my great grandma would be like, special occasion. Royal Anne cherries and preserved figs. Those are your options for dessert. Enjoy. Good thing I'm not a dessert person.

What's going on on your wall back there? Are you in bed again? Oh, okay. No. This is actually a green screen because I like people to feel like I'm relatable. I'm actually on my yacht right now. I think I actually just copied this joke from Beach Too Sandy. I'm not positive where I heard it before,

but I've definitely not invented it. But now it's my joke. I'm sitting in front of a green screen. I'm not positive where I heard it before, but I've definitely not invented it. But now it's my joke. I'm sitting in front of a green screen. I'm actually on my yacht. But I want people to think- Yeah, thanks. I want people to think I'm relatable. So it looks like I'm in bed. I really- you at least cater to the masses. That's really nice of you. Oh, well, guess what? Blaze- An ethical billionaire as they would call you. Thank you. I'm the first ethical billionaire. Can you believe it? Who knew there was a way this whole time? I uh, I

For my birthday, you know how I never go my office because I'm like just overwhelmed by its existence And it just gets messier and messier and and dustier and dustier. Well apparently, which I didn't know, Blaze for my birthday has been cleaning it and organizing it and like vacuuming it. I like that it was so messy you didn't even notice that it was slowly getting cleaned. Well I didn't go in there. I literally stopped going in there and one time I went in to put something down and went huh?

Like what happened? Like I basically locked it off like one of those locked doors that people don't let their grandkids enter because there's something scary in there and I literally locked the door and was like I'm not going in. Please clean it up for me. So that was nice. That's very nice. That's a huge deal. Yeah, so I think soon I'll be back out of bed and back in my office.

And I apologize if it bothers people. I don't know if it does because I don't read YouTube comments. But if it does, I do apologize. But I will be out of here soon. I think he's actually probably was tired of me recording from bed for hours and hours. He's like, this is where I stay when you're doing my nap time. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that's what's happening here. Do you have a reason why you drink and what you drink?

Oh, my God. Well, like I said, my body's falling apart. I did have to take I didn't have to take anything, but I took some Tylenol and I took so I took this like pain. OK, here's the thing. I didn't take pain killers. Before everyone worries that I'll be face down in the bathroom again, like the time Allison had to like rescue me from the floor.

But between you and me, me and Allison, Allison and you, the three of us just have stories for dates about each other. I feel like we could write the weirdest like three-party memoir, you know? I don't know what would happen, but it would be weird. It would probably just be all the times I was on the ground actually,

and you guys had to help me for various reasons. No, so I have been feeling after our tour, I was like, oh, I'm so exhausted, and I feel like my body's doing that thing where you finally get home and it is like, we, we can freak out now. Getting a cold. Yeah, I think I'm getting some sort of cold or flu, but then I went to get some blood it like is like, we, we can freak out. Getting a cold. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I'm getting some sort of cold or flu, but then I went to get some blood, like just basic blood work drawn and they were like, oh, you have three like out of range things. And I was like, that's weird. I don't usually have much out of range. But so I looked and it was like, oh, the range for normal, it was like anti, like inflammatory response is like a ratio of one to 60 between 60 and 80. And I was like, okay, then I don't understand

why my is wrong. And then I kept looking at it and realized, oh, there's a zero at the end of mine. It's not 64, it's 640. I was like, why does it say out of range? I don't understand. And then I was like, well, that's weird. I feel fine.

Maybe it's a fluke. And then I woke up and my aura ring was like, we have major signs of your body being under stress. We're turning off the like the activity mode. You should stay home today. I'm like, what's happening? Maybe I mean, it was just like you were just living off adrenaline for the last couple weeks. And now we are like, you couldn't feel your I think so. And I think it's just like the busyness. And then when after that, like, I know you went on your you went on a trip, and I went with I think your family or whatever. And I went with blazes family. And that, like, I know you went on your, you went on a trip and I went with, I think your family or whatever,

and I went with Blaze's family and it was like just kind of nonstop. And when we got home and I was like, I mean, and then I was like, I feel fine. And then as the day progresses, like parts of my body have started hurting and I'm like, uh-oh. So I don't know, cause I'm also due for Remicade tomorrow.

So I'm like- Right, so maybe half of it will get fixed. I hope that it helps cause the psoriasis, it's like it does kind of validate though because I'm like oh I have like all these psoriasis patches and shit and my body hurts and I'm tired and it's like oh well one to six hundred forty like I guess I have a reason to feel kind of crummy. That is not good. Bye Leona. Goodbye. See ya. You're going to your new school now you're gonna look at the outside okay have a good time you haven't seen the outside yeah yeah go go ahead and look at it

you can't tell me what you're gonna get. You can't tell me what you're gonna get at the mall? No. Why? Because there's something for next week. Something for next week? And what's next week? I cannot tell you. You cannot tell me?

Could it be my birthday? Ahhhhh! The best day of the year? Okay, bye. Thanks for buying me presents. You have Hank, I have a toddler. Any thoughts on what she's gonna get you at the front of her school? Yeah, actually a fucking patch of grass, an acorn and a piece of grass. Yeah, I've

gotten a few acorns recently so I imagine it's a pine cone and acorns something along those lines. Nice. Yeah, she keeps saying I can't tell you about the card I'm making you for your birthday because it's a pine cone and acorns something along those lines nice. Yeah, she keeps saying I can't tell you about the card I'm making you for your birthday because it's a surprise and I'm like sure she's like I can't tell you about the dog I drew on it. I'm like cool Call it a win that you've got a kid who can't keep secrets. That's true, but you know what very true and blaze can't either So I'm living life Way out in the open people at least I I hope, unless he's that good. Yeah, it's always the quiet ones, I'm telling you.

Yeah, that's a fair point. But anyway, that's- He's not sneaky, but he is quiet. He's very quiet. And they are very similar, very mysterious. Those feel mysterious enough, yeah. But anyway, so I basically, I took like a Tylenol, and then I took a pain AM like weed gummy thing

that's supposed to, and CBD, which is supposed to really help with aches and pains so we'll see what happens today but I'm feeling kind of wackadoo so why do you drink them? I had a reason. Oh uh I'm getting becoming chummy with everyone at the dog park I already was but I um I'm finally getting invited to things and And I had lunch, dinner, and a birthday party this weekend, all from different dog owners. Jesus, you are like a toddler parent. From birthday party to picnic to birthday party.

Just like back to my sorority days. I'm like, oh, I got a thing, I have to leave. Oh, sorry, I have a thing. I know you're so busy. Geo literally stuck his whole head in and went like, can I come? Because I really haven't taken him on a social outing for a while.

Okay, but sorry. By the way, speaking of the birthday party attendant, he keeps dropping the bone on the hardwood floor to get attention. I love that. It's working. I also drugged him and it's not working. I'm a little scared. Oh.

Yeah, it's not. Maybe you should drug yourself. That's what I do. Like a pain med. Take a pain AM. I took him on an hour and a half walk this morning so that way hopefully he'd be tired. And then on top of that I gave him doggy CBD and he has no interest in not moving. Yeah, it sounds like he's thriving.

So I guess that's why I drink. But what I was going to say is that I went to this doggy birthday. It was. Not what I was expecting. I feel like what was it? Because I don't think I've ever been to a doggy birthday. I mean, besides the one we threw for Gio. It was it was.

Fine. I mean, like the it was basically just a like the dog park, but at someone's house, which was great But the people who were there I didn't know anybody who went to this party. So I had to meet all new people Outside of the dog park, right and their dogs presumably and their dogs and Hank was the only big one So then all of them were like freaked out about having a big dog. He didn't do anything I think they were just like freaked out. They're like, maybe the small ones don't like big ones. And now the small ones were freaking out.

It's like I think there was some vibe that people were already like, and he leave as soon as he got there. No, but the little cut out of the party. He didn't even do anything. He was just sitting in the corner. But there was like one little yippy dog who like wouldn't stop barking because a big dog was there. And then for some reason

It was Hank's fault and not the yippie dogs. It's not fair Anyway, we we left early. No, I'm sorry puppy She know or something He was fed. Well Anyway, I just drink cuz I was like, oh I branched out and then I just kind of I mean it was Like that happens like I remember when I first got you I went to a few dog events and I was like oh I branched out and then I just kind of I mean it wasn't really a win. I feel like that happens like I remember when I first got you I went to a few dog events and I was like I'm the only person here and it was like no fault of the people who ran it but it was like clearly like I was so excited

and then nobody else showed up and or like one other person we were like this is kind of awkward so yeah I feel like that happens. Have you had yet to go to like a toddler like birthday party where like like you Don't really want to be there or like are you having fun at all? Well, usually It's at like some place. So like it's either at like a trampoline park or like so it's kind of like the kids just run around and Hmm, you don't really have to do much

You kind of just follow your own kid around and then there's like cake and everybody goes back and eats cake and then runs around again. So it's kind of nice because I feel like it's just an outing. Yeah. And you can kind of be running. The vibes were weird and I was like maybe it's just because I don't know how dog parties work yet. But I was also the only one who brought a present for the dog. What? It was a birthday party.

Wild to me. And then they make you feel like you're the yeah forget it you should take that present back I know that's not classy but man that that's rude of them I anyway it was just an odd experience but I can say that I went to one and yours was the only years ago so oh well be fair, you were the one who brought all the decor and accoutrement for that because you put the wine bottle or label on the bottle of the GEO bottle of wine and all that. You said birthday party. I said, okay, I'm going.

You went hard for that first one and I will never forget it. So thank you. Well, I guess that's why I drink because now I'm'm just like, my weekends are not being taken up with like that's amazing adjacent things. It feels like we're in a step in like a parallel life journey in that way. Cause I just went to a birthday party over the weekend. And I was like, but again, it was like outside.

So it was like as long, I think it's probably similar with the dog, but it's like, Oh, you at least have the excuse of you can like tend to your child or your dog. so you're not just standing there like blankly it's like I know something going on but he was so shy and stood in the corner that when I was attained to him we were both just standing in the corner yeah and the only time he felt brave enough to approach anyone was to eat the bowl of popcorn off the table so it it was just like, not a good part. And then they were like, get out of here.

At one point, he tried to like, they made they made hot dogs. And like, I guess, like the hot grill, he tried to like fucking counter surf on the grill. And then everyone was like, is he OK? And I was like, let him learn. He's like, maybe he will never jump again. He's charred his belly. OK, it's all right. Well, apparently he he yipped. And I think everyone was freaked out that like I wasn't more concerned like I checked his paws

He's not like there's not like they're not fried off like he's right, right, right, right, right but I think I came across as like The generation before us and I was like rub some dirt in it. Like I think I was a little too bad about it. Right, you were like, he needed to learn not to touch the hot stove. I don't think I'm gonna be invited back. Let's just put it that way. And for that, for that I drink a San Pellegrino,

Bevragino. Because that's class is what that says. Tangerine and strawberry mixed together. You know, I've never had that and that sounds like my dream flavor combo. Yeah, I just, I've never seen it either. So obviously I dream flavor combo. Yeah, I just I've never seen it either So obviously I made a purchase. What are you drinking? I don't have it. I am waiting to crack it open Oh, I see. I have my scrappy water bottle my oops. Sorry my scrappy Stanley. So I like how you call it scrappy

Steve. Mm-hmm It has the rat. It just feels kind of scrappy. You know, it's like it's got drink up rat. It's got my name really big It's got Drink Up Rat, it's got my name really big. It's got the squirrel saying, watch out. That was obviously when we were gone, I had dog sitters here. That was the only cup that was in the sink. I think it was maybe a fan favorite.

Oh, love that, yay. Okay. Hey, how about the cup with the giant rat on the side, honey? You wanna use this one? And they said yes, actually can see it I would say yes Christine what is that in your hand? Oh, thank you so much for asking. This is my special cornbread hemp Okay, I keep it on my nightstand and I wanted to prove it. I actually keep it here with my Birds of Kentucky field guide They're right back to that because they're both very important tools

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Oh okay I'm gonna do that. Once again that's DailyLook.com for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code DRINK so they know we sent you one last time DailyLook.com promo code DRINK. So uh let's see I have a very quick story It's literally I was hoping for like more information. There's very little out there and most the information is from a pamphlet. So oh Hey, this has happened before and it was a pamphlet from like 1603 is it's the same situation This one's from 1678. No way. I was joking but wow, okay, that's perfect You know, they loved pamphlets back then though loved them and I maybe that's Obviously, there's not a lot of information if it's from the 1600s You just have to rely on the pamphlet being still existing is kind of amazing

I mean, that's what's kind of incredible about it. Yeah, I guess these pamphlets just go hard. They really Stand the test of time. I'm shocked that you and I haven't They just go hard. They really stand the test of time. I'm shocked that you and I haven't, between the two of us, haven't started collecting old, archaic, haunted pamphlets. I mean, we're literally collecting archaic menus that are probably tri-folded like a pamphlet.

So I feel like we're on the right track. Like, we're only one step away from slip-sliding into collecting, I was gonna say vintage, but that would literally be ancient we're not far we're not far from it um I'm sorry in this exact moment as I'm about to start the story he's licking everything and now he's on the table oh my god he's so cute hey Hank have you learned nothing about and how it can hurt your little Pawsie Wawsies. Hi, bugger. Can you sit, please?

He's so cute. Just sit. He's a baby bug. Also, I got a notification last night. It was like, your present has shipped. And then it was like this deranged text. And I was like, what the hell is that? And then I looked closer and I realized

it was Gio's gift to Hank that I bought like weeks ago or whenever he first told me and I feel like I was so confused because I was like Did I just spell everything wrong and I was like, oh no, I was writing like Gio. Like is it your Gio? Yeah, so you have a deranged present or Hank has a deranged present coming your way Um, but I just I bought it like like weeks ago. So I don't know it just shipped but just a warning that's on the way to That's very nice. I will say Christine already got us a whole bunch of nice things Well, I did get you Matt

I got you a gift card for matching outfits, but I wanted you to actually experience I wanted you to have an excuse to buy it is really it's a dream Yeah, it's a dream spark pause if you want to sponsor. Yeah, I know that would be great because we could both use that which is very Fun now both use it and now I've got something from Gio so now if it's written like a baby was in the room. Just creepy, creepy baby and or serial killer handwriting. Write some letters glued onto a piece of paper. Correct. Um okay so this is the story well actually should I I'm gonna get him his toy I've been hiding because I think it'll kill some time. The emergency toy. The emergency toy.

I've been hiding because I think it'll kill some emergency toy the emergency toy It's a one of those toys you have to like fill it with like a big cookie treat or whatever. Oh, yeah I haven't let him have it in weeks I think it's it's something like that. Yeah, but it's like if like shove this big ass thick cookie. It takes him like two days to Eat it. So that's impressive. Yeah. Hank, I'll send you the link if you want it. OK, yeah, that would be great, because I do need more like kind of distractions for Gigi because he just eats everything so fast.

Oh, little Gigi's. OK, this is the story of the mowing devil. OK, OK, I have to assume mowing meant something different in the 1600s than like mowing the lawn. Nope. So uh, although mower used to be a person not a machine like a mower. Fair. Okay. Understood. Yeah. So it's just one of those things where it's like it always existed. It was just not industrial. It just yeah okay oh interesting. So this is in the 17th century 1600s Hertfordshire England and there was this pamphlet that came out that summer with a story called the mowing devil or strange news out of

Hertfordshire. And the pamphlet looks like a news article like a piece of like a newspaper, like reporting the news of the day. So that maybe probably helped it stick in people's minds. So like this news article about the fucking devil. The media literacy was about as good as it is now, I imagine, not much better. I guess so, because in the 17th century, didn't like only like five people read.

Like- True. So honestly, they probably had better media literacy than we do maybe it's certainly at least equal at least equal and It was also It was a pamphlet that had a picture. I'm gonna send you actually the picture so you see it. Tell me I yes, okay, so You where do you think these things are now? Do you think are they in museums, libraries? You shut your pretty little mouth. Don't worry about it. I can't. I can't. I don't know how.

It's it's going to. I can't find GeoStreet right now. I'm just going to send it to you and then we'll send it to GeoStreet later. No problemo. Um, OK, so this is the exact pamphlet. Half of it is a picture and the other half is just a paragraph Oh, okay. Whoa, okay And by picture, it's like, uh, obviously not a photograph. It's like an illustration illustrate like an etching

It almost looks like this is the creepiest thing i've ever seen In fact, it is a wood cut illustration. So it's essentially a stamp made out of a block of wood So you would carve into the wood and then to ink. Those are coming back now there are several like artists and I know LA definitely but several local artists and Cincinnati that do lino cut or Celine my friend Celine does um and wood cut and line of cut drawings I did them in high school a little bit it's a really cool have you done that where you take the rubber mat and you like you kind of gouge like holes and it's and then you ink it And then you print it. Well, everyone look out on Etsy. Someone's gonna recreate this for sure Honestly, that's a great idea. Yeah, that's a good idea. I haven't Celine. Do you want to draw this? I feel like it

Survived it's kind of this like creepy demonic vibe. I feel like it no fence Celine, but I feel like it really does so for those who can't see it or are not on Instagram and seeing it themselves, it is literally it looks like a newspaper article and half of it is a picture which we will describe in a second. Here comes Hank with his toy. That's the news article. Breaking. Breaking dog with toy. Breaking water is what? Or strange news out of Burbank. So basically there's this little paragraph. It is written in old 1600s. I'm not going to make you deal with that.

I'm just going to tell you what it does. Basically it's this news report of a farmer who had over three acres of oats that needed to be harvested. So he asked a mower to help him. And the mower said, sure, and asked for a specific wage. But I guess it was a wage that the farmer considered too high. In fact, so high that it made the farmer irrationally upset and offended that it was even asked of him.

Oh, so the farmer said, essentially, fuck you, get out of my farm. You're not allowed here anymore. And the quote is, the devil shall mow it rather than you. I see. So like when hell freezes over and it's like, surprise. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

So that night, funny enough, the farmer's field and crops all of a sudden catch on fire. Oh no! Magically catch on fire. And the farmer, the next day, he I'm sure takes a deep sigh and walks out there preparing to like see none of his crops. And he's like, all right, let's check the damage. But when he got there, he found that the field was totally fine. And the crops were perfectly mowed and harvested. And without any context here by the devil himself. Must have been by the devil himself. Certainly. Yeah, because it's clearly some sort of wizardry. Yeah, so because this must have been the work of the devil, he didn't even touch or sell

any of his harvests that year. So I guess the moral of the story is like the devil appeared because he was greedy and now he's like so scared to touch anything the devil touched that I was- Oh he's like I get it. I can't even profit on this devil grass. Yeah. Devil's grass. He like the thing that you like a lot. Yes, the devil's lettuce. Devil's lettuce, that's what it is. See I don't even know how to say it.

See when you get hotline would you get your little devil and I have lettuce? Oh! Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now hang on on this damn. Now hold your horses So basically, yeah, I think the moral is like you will financially suffer or I didn't know the story ended and suddenly you were Telling me the moral and I was like, wait, what's the ending? It's a paragraph. It's like there's quite a tale I guess breaking news. It's like the devil will do it instead of you. And then the devil appeared and they went, okay, well, I guess I can't.

So he didn't like get wages. That was his punishment. Cause he didn't, he didn't, he didn't bear sell the haunted grass. The punish he punished himself. He was like, well, I'm not going to touch this if the devil touched it. Like, nobody said that, right? Like you could have just sold it and been like, I don't know. Nothing's wrong with it. Like, can you imagine first of all, that this man wanted, this other man wanted random money,

the farmer was like, no. So then the devil does your work for free and perfectly, and then you don't touch it. Imagine how offended the devil is. It puts on a show at night. Yes. For the fire and like a little trickery. I mean, come on.

And I did it for zero dollars, babe. You are so welcome. That's like the equivalent of Ty Pennington. You know, he just shows up. No, no one will let you build a house. Well, watch this now. There are 16 tennis courts in your room because you said one time you like the color green.

Ty Pennington or strange news out of trading spaces. Listen, that fucking show. What was it called? Trading Spaces. No, the other extreme home makeover. Yeah, that one show, what was it called? Trading Spaces. No, the other one. Extreme Home Makeover. Yeah, that one, Extreme Home Makeover. That had me with, how do you say it? In a chokehold.

It had me in a chokehold that show. I would watch it and go, wow, he's changing the world. And now I'm like, oh my God, it was like, can you imagine? Live in this shark room forever. Good luck with your taxes. We actually built an aquarium around you and you might actually be terrified of this

Yeah, we don't know how to get you out, but you'll figure it out. You're a smart. Oh, you like lions Well, we put a lion in your yeah, this is your new bed. Yeah, it's a lion Anyway, sorry that reminds me of this. It's like let me show up and do it and it's like, okay Nobody asked for this. Yeah, I'm not a single person But also I would be pissed if I were the devil and I was like I worked really hard Yes, and you're not even gonna use anything that I work all night long Yeah, I would almost be worried about the farmer like the the do I or don't I because like do I touch things? The devil's more offensive. Yeah, do I upset the devil and he's gonna get me like threefold later? Oh

Talk about a conundrum. I bet you there was a follow-up to this eight years later or something that the field never grew crops again or something. That was his last, I wonder if there was a follow-up or not. The follow-up is happening in May 2025 actually. Oh shit! Oh my god! So finally breaking news out of Hertfordshire.

We could all know the truth of what really happened. I couldn't tell you. And also, there's no information on where this was, what farm it was. It could be any farm. I mean, also, if you just pissed that other guy off, he probably set fire to your farm, to your crops, as a fuck you. And maybe you dreamed that they all got engulfed in flames and then you woke up and they were fine. I don't know. It's funny you mentioned that

because that is literally one of the theories later. Oh, okay. I didn't even know there were theories, sorry. So- Jumping ahead. No, no, no, you're good. So the best part is that, well, let's get to it in a second. Four months later, not an update like you just predicted, but the original publication is now being reproduced in a second. Four months later, not an update like you just predicted, but

the original publication is now being reproduced in another place. It's such a hit that they're like, we gotta reprint this baby. Second print, wow. Imagine if like there's a first edition signed by the devil, that'd be crazy. I mean, I would pay big books for that kind of thing. Well, this is going to be my favorite part of the story because you know, very rarely do I get this opportunity and it's always my favorite when I get to read the title of a book from old England where it's a year long.

85 words long. Oh my God. I love these. They never stop. This is the name of the book that republished the article later. It's called Strange Signs from Heaven, Seen and Heard in Cambridge, Suffolk and Norfolk in and upon the 21st day of May, last passed in the afternoon 1646. I'm halfway done. Miraculous workers seen at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall and Little Britain in London were unto his annex several apparitions seen in the air at the Hagen Holland upon the 21st to 31st day of May last past about one of the clock in the afternoon.

You can't be serious. This is fucking insane. I will also send that to you because I want you to know that that's real. Why would like that? How could I even just come up with that in my own head? That was a whole novel. Yeah, that's I. I want you to. Christine, please hang on. Christine does this thing. This is the cover.

This is like the cover of the book. And it doesn't even show like a like an author yet or like you haven't even gotten to the author. He has 20 names for sure. Christine does this thing during ads, if you'll ever notice that whenever we have to do like a fast disclaimer, Christine loves doing the fastest disclaimer. I would love for you to treat this like a disclaimer and try to read this as fast as you can. I did take that THC gummy, so I apologize in advance. Also, I want to add, you did a

good job because this is also something we didn't note yet, it's in completely different fonts and sizes. Like every few words, it suddenly switches sizes and font and italicized or not. And it's a really wild situation. It feels like they were like pretending like it wasn't all the same title, but it is. Even just signs from heaven is two different fonts in four different sizes. And has a semicolon inexplicably at the end.

So you know, what's happening? And it's like that old English writing. So all the S's look like F's, you know? Yes, it's that weird F-S thing. Oh, I can't stand it. Have fun. Strange signs from heaven seen and heard in Cambridge, Suffolk and Norfolk in and upon the 21st day of May last past in the afternoon 1646. Miraculous wonders seen at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall, and Little Britain in London

whereunto is annexed several apparitions seen in the air at the Hague and Holland upon the 21st through 31st day of May last past about one o'clock. Nope. Shit. Let me start over. Start over. They can't decide what words to use. Imagine you go to book club and someone's like, what's your favorite book? And someone goes, oh, let me tell you. Imagine someone says, what's your favorite pamphlet? And then I'm like, we just become best friends, yes.

Well, yes. Also, can I add that like, oh my God, I don't even remember what I was going to add because I got distracted by the font again. Oh, it's like they couldn't decide. It's in and upon the 21st day of May. Like we don't know if it's in the day or on the day or could it be upon the day? As long as it's not after the day. That's exactly right. Thank you.

It's like insufferable. Like no, how many people did that go through and everyone went, yep, looks like a good title. Yeah, actually, we will type all of this out by hand and stamp it because it seems worth all of this space. I feel like this title is what my dad thinks DEI is where they're like, we have to include every single goddamn thing in there or else someone's going to get offended. Yeah. It's like if we don't mention the miraculous wonders

seen at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall, Little Britain in London, we're canceled. And if it's in and or unto, it's like, there's no binary. It's like the binary doesn't exist anymore. And it's kind of in that way, it does make sense. This is the woke liberal left writing a pamphlet. You know what? I was afraid this might happen someday. I had a feeling I was looking forward to it. So oh my gosh. Okay four months

after the original pamphlet it ends up in this goddamn book and that uh I feel like I just needed to mention that because obviously and then the fucking story is shorter than the title of this book by the way. That's a great point. I mean not quite maybe but like pretty damn close well to answer your other question the The original like wood carving that they used to stamp the picture on the pamphlet. Mm-hmm is now Completely missing. Nobody knows whatever happened to it. It was the 1600s. They probably like used it for firewood or something I was gonna say they burned it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but there are

three copies of this pamphlet left in existence. Whoa, only three copies. Two of them, two of them are in the US. And then one of them is in the British library in London. Okay, okay. I guessed library at some point. Mm hmm. And, uh, in the reproduction, what's interesting is that, I couldn't find information on this. I looked, I don't, if you have an answer everyone, please let me know. But in the reproduction, in that book with the long ass name,

the pamphlet itself now has a longer story with more details in it. So I don't know if like, Oh! There was a longer version that no one ever found in the first copy. We only know of a short one. It seems like somebody may have kind of

had some artistic license with it. Yes, like maybe it just got trap related. Cause you know they were like, how could you tell a story in only two paragraphs when you could sell it in 25 paragraphs, you know? But if the title is this long, the story has to be longer. Like it just doesn't work any other way so basically the I'm not gonna read the whole thing to you, but the

Bullet points of what makes the longer details in this version is that the farmer is rich and the mower is very poor Oh, that's fucked up. Okay To a point where it's quoted in the story that the neighbor is quote Desperate to sell the sweat of his brows and marrow of his bones. He's like poor, poor, poor, really looking for work. The farmer goes to the mower, says, hey, my oats are ready for harvest if you want to be my mower. And he tried to underpay him.

But then the mower kind of pushes back and then they end up getting in this fight. They walk away from each other. But then the mower comes back and says or has a slot to himself. Like, if I say no now, then like I'm not guaranteed other work from him in the future and I really need future money. So I'd rather take less money now. So I have worked a lot of license that this person took to expand

on the original story. Yes, 100 percent. He's getting a whole narrative now, like a whole plotline for just the neighbor. Well, he was probably also fucking confused when he read the first pamphlet. He was like, someone has to explain this. True. Like at least he didn't blame him for it, you know? I thought the neighbor was the one setting the fires. Yeah.

Well, so the farmer was already mad when they like had their spat and walked away from each other. But when the mower comes back and says, okay, I am willing to work for the lesser pay, the farmer still says, I'd rather the devil do it because you're not worth my time now. OK, but I do like that they've added a little bit of more context to that because that feels like a much more believable conversation.

It's like one of those movies where they don't even try for a chemistry read Correct, but this time like there's there's some character arc here Yeah, I like thought I like can relate in a way that I couldn't with the first line of cut Well, so this is the part I think you're gonna like really love is that the the next day There's that fire and the farmer goes out and his crops are perfectly harvested. One new quote which I thought was interesting is, with the exactness that would have taken above an average for any man in one night.

It was just like no man could have done this in one night. Oh, so it was impossible for the neighbor to do. It must have been the devil. Okay, see that also helps me understand a little bit because I was confused about that in the first one. Which is interesting too because if I were this rich farmer who thought I did nothing wrong I would have thought it's not the devil I'd be like it's God being on my side and just doing my crops. Exactly good point like of course you'd think you're in the right. But uh well maybe if you saw the fires. Maybe the fires. Maybe the

fires were the clue. So the best part is I just like this line a lot. In it, it was saying like the devil must have done this and all the crops were perfect and like in a way that no man could have done it. And the quote says, as if the devil had a mind to show his dexterity and the art of husbandry. Okay, we've got a real author in the house here stretching their hand at this. This is very fun. I didn't know this. I think I'm the last person on earth. But fun fact, in case you are like me, I didn't know that husbandry was even a word or what it meant.

And apparently it just means like the act of farming. Yeah, it makes sense that when you get married, the husband's job is all the stuff outside and all the, you know, as they come back then. Oh my gosh, so you haven't heard of like, when you can get a degree in husbandry? No, not at all. Really? Yeah, that's a thing.

I would just, agriculture or like. Yeah, I mean, they always have some weird word for it, you know, so it's either. But then I looked up what's like, wife-ery, wifery, and that's just like having babies, of course. Or like midwifery is, yeah, midwifery. That's interesting. Yeah.

So it's like, yeah, okay. The caring of babies and animals, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, it's animals and crops. So it's like men do the outside work, you know? Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. Wow, that's fascinating.

This is the part I think you're gonna get a kick out of. Oh, I'm already like fucking on it. I'm like, yeah, I did get a kick out of that, that's fascinating. This is the part I think you're going to get a kick out of. Is that already like fucking on it. I'm like, yeah, I did get a kick out of that, by the way, is that in this long version that's in this longer reproduction, they met they throw in this one line of however this is. Oh, he's doing his husbandry. He's showing off at how good he is. However, the devil cut the crops in round circles.

So this was back in 17 or 1678. Oh my God. I have goose camp. So the original was in the 1600s. It's been republished in multiple folklore books and pamphlets, but especially in the 1990s, it had this like resurgence because back in- Because people loved pamphlets and zines also in the 90s it had this like resurgence because people loved pamphlets and zines also in the 90s just side note and i mean actually yeah and also because part of it in the

1980s when this pamphlet was like rediscovered it was rediscovered by a bunch of ufo enthusiasts who really focused in on the line, the devil cut the crops in round circles. I mean, so you know they just went into Library of Congress or whatever the UK equivalent is and typed in crop circles, and then this thing comes up and they're like, shit. It was just the oldest thing that showed up.

It's like the oldest, oldest thing in there. Yeah, that is, I mean, I don't know how I hadn't put that together yet at all, because looking at it, it's literally the devil using flames to really quickly make crop circles. That's crazy. So, uh, since the nineties, because this, the pamphlet was rediscovered in, in the UFO community in the eighties.

So like by the nineties, it was this big thing. Um, in the nineties, this pamphlet has now been used by many of the UFO circles to prove that extraterrestrial crop circles existed pre-1900s. Because remember the whole big craze happened in the 40s and 50s? Of course, and so it's like older than that. Wow. It's like they've been around for 300 years. That's this is the evidence. It has now become known as the earliest piece of evidence for crop circles. That's okay.

Sorry. We try not to comment on this anymore because it's annoying and it happens all the time. But the balloons came up balloons just soared through the air as M said that, which like made it all the better. That's what the UFO enthusiasts would want. There's the celebration of it all. Yeah, a big party. So it is obviously heavily speculated.

It's unlikely for a few reasons, mainly because the farmer found the crops cut and not pressed down like how crop circles, all the crops are just bent. Okay, but maybe in the back then the word, who knows? That feels like a little flimsy argument. I'm, we've got Mufon in the house all of a sudden. I'm so sorry.

I'm going to be on their side of this debate. Certainly. That is totally fine. I get it. I expected that. Yeah. Good, good, good. But also in the pamphlets picture, the devil is literally holding a scythe,

cutting things. See, you're right. So he is cutting them and not bending cutting it although if it's the very first Crop circle or whatever then like maybe he also didn't know how to make a crop circle yet He wasn't realized it maybe that was a lot harder, right? mmm-hmm because like you know Now you can just stomp on it. Although imagine if you're all powerful. I guess the devil could just snap his fingers Maybe he feels like it's has of an, maybe he was like, I don't want to be part

of any of these petty human arguments anymore. Like I'm going to start flattening the crops. Cause then it's like, who did that? It's not the neighbor. It's not, it must be, I don't know, someone from outer space. I feel like. Technically God and the devil are from outer space.

That's right. So maybe that's kind of, They're not earthly beings. That's kind of maybe what it's like someone from outer space. I feel like. Technically, God and the devil are from outer space. That's right. So maybe they're not earthly beings. That's kind of maybe the moral of this whole story that we're telling. I agree. I think God is an alien. There was there was at the dog park yesterday, there was some dog who, like, looked fucking wild. Like, there's, you know, you sometimes you see a dog and you're like, what breed could that be?

Oh, I see, yeah. And you could hear the little kids who obviously didn't come with that dog. They were talking to the dog's owner and I guess the dog's name was Wiz. And they were like, Wiz looks like an alien. Wiz is an alien. Wiz is an alien. And I was like, at some point it would hurt my feelings, but Wiz did really look like an alien.

Oh my God. And I bet with, at some point, it would hurt my feelings. But Wiz did really look like an alien. Oh, my God. And I bet with Lilo and Stitch being out now, like, yeah, it's like the dog version, which is kind of awesome, actually. If you think about it. Anyway, so Wiz, Jesus, the devil, Superman and ET are all aliens. And Stitch and Stitch. See everyone but us. How boring. Boring.

Another reason that it's probably not UFO crop circles is because the text never mentions the crops being in like a concentric classic crop circle pattern. The image does look like that. Like if you look at the picture of the devil with a scythe. They drew it for you people. You could assume. And also, although the later on story does say like a circular pattern or whatever, the original text never said that. It doesn't say that. That's true. So we're going off of like the embellishment of somebody else later. That's true. But they were looking at the picture maybe.

And they were like, well, it's not really. But also, like the picture itself. Yeah, I guess it kind of looks like crop circles, but it also looks a lot like flames, which would make so much more sense with the devil. Well, I thought it was flames around the crops mmm, and these are all the like wheat stalks or oat or whatever and he's like flame the flames around it are gonna Magically cut it I guess trust me. There is no logic anymore. Whatever you're saying makes perfect sense I think so cuz look at the flames in the middle see there's like definitely a lot of flames in there. There's yeah I mean it actually

looks like flames around crop circles so it doesn't really. I think that's what it is I think he's using the flames to like block him remember because the farmer woke up and looked out the window and said like you just saw fire so he assumed all his crops would be consumed maybe it's just a barrier so you don't see what's going on inside it. Think about a UFO. They come they put like some sort of. Yeah, no you're right. So they can't see.

I don't know. Some sort of like screener over your face like a. Yeah, screener. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, another reason that they think it probably isn't UFO related is because this was written in the 17th century where most unexplained events were explained with God and the devil versus like an alien, I guess. In the longer version of the pamphlet, the story literally opens up.

I didn't mention this because I wanted this to be like a point later is that in the longer version, the first part of the story is them just talking about how God and the devil must be real. So like literally the first sentence I think is if devils exist then there must be a hell in which they live if there is a hell there must be a heaven hence there must be a God. I don't do the philosophy mental schtick here. Sure. Whatever. Whatever. But basically they're saying, well, if it's the devil, it can't be aliens. Although no one is arguing that I know of what we're arguing that the devil is an ill.

Like maybe it's both. Yeah. And I feel like what do you mean? It's the OK. That annoys me because it's like, well, yeah, a lot of things were explained as the devil, like illness, germs, like a lot of things were explained as the devil, like illness, germs, like a lot of things were explained as the devil, sure, because that was their understanding, but that doesn't mean like they couldn't have seen something really crazy happening or like something like a crop circle and go, that must be the devil. I don't know how else to explain it. Like they're not talking about aliens. They don't even know that they're not the fucking center of the universe. I think you're actually convincing me. Wait a minute. I'm so mad about that. I'm like, what are these people?

That's like they're just hiding behind the devil. It's like the alien could be the explanation that you're doing Everything was the devil, you know, they said like oh you got a paper cut devil, you know, oh You're a woman with an opinion double double devil. Oh, I found my shoe that it was missing. God is here. You know, whatever. Like maybe it's a ghost. Maybe it's an alien. Maybe it's germs. Yeah. Well, so maybe you're right. Maybe it is nearly a shit. I don't fucking know anymore.

I'm convinced. But a lot of let's say the scap fucking relax. Do you hear that cough? That was disgusting. I did, is that what that was? It sounded like a vomit, vomitor. He's chowing down on a dry treat. I think he just cut himself a little. Need a little hydration. Little wah-wah.

We're teaching him water so he knows to go drink. Oh, that's nice. Because we'll go on a long walk and he's panting and I'm like, all right, why don't you know about water? Oh my god, Gio literally knows how to tell me water because he's such a baby And like if the door is even slightly closed and he can't fit and he wants to drink water He just goes, oh And I'm like, okay, it's like really fucking annoying. It's actually amazing He had to teach me water in his language. I see I'm also trying to teach him like the bells on the door to let

Us know he wants to go outside. Hey, that's so cute He already paused at the door when he wants to go outside so I know when but if I'm like in the other room I can't hear it, you know, so smart. Okay. Wait, you need to teach me all right me a pamphlet So I can teach Gia these things. I just got tired of having to guess. Although he's getting, he just learned PEE, PEE. If you wanna go, he knows that means like, we're just gonna go into the yard for a second and we're not going on a big walk. It's just to go, so.

Oh, so he knows it's not like a huge, yeah, yeah. And he puts his own, he has like one of those glowing collars at night, cause he's a black dog in the dark he puts it on himself when he's ready for his nighttime walk it's very precious you need to tick tock this for me please he he just goes he like does this and like shimmies it onto his neck and he's like i'm ready let's fucking do this that's amazing that's like some bunny the dog level shit he's he's a smart boy and he's a dumb boy.

Anyway, just to close out, a lot of most people think that this isn't a real UFO situation. I think it's just like a religious cautionary tale about God punishing someone for greed. Another thought is that it could be a think piece on like the power dynamics between the rich and the poor at the time. So then it's just not a religious cautionary tale, but just a general cautionary tale about properly paying people and being nice to people or else like the town will come and Burn your fucking crops to the ground. Yeah, I mean, yeah It's a pretty clear moral when you look at it kind of straight on

Yeah, so in conclusion, it's likely that it's not about crop crop circles and it's just more An editorial a think piece from this the 17th century disagree Hard disagree as well. Anyways, that is the pamphlet of the mowing devil. I feel like if someone said, this is crazy, you guys. The devil came down and burned someone's crops into a weird shape. Hey, yeah, that's probably a fucking crop circle.

Whatever. I guess you're right. They didn't know what a crop circle was yet. Exactly. So they wouldn't have been able to. I meant to comment on this when you said earlier too, that they said, oh, it wasn't mentioning classic concentric patterns. I'm like, how would they know a classic concentric pattern of a fucking

crop circle? How are they supposed to know? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. So I think the devil comes down here for vacation. I guess it would be so easy if the entire town and like a it's probably a rural area. If they're farming, it's the 17th century. Half them can't read. They're all religious. I feel like all it takes is one person going, Oh, the devil did this. And everyone goes, what? And then no more questions are asked. And they know he's an asshole. So they're like, the devil came because you're an asshole. And it's like,

well, shit. Like you said, the entire town maybe got together and burned it down. And then they went, no, no, no, that was the devil. Don't look at us. That was totally the devil. Don't worry. Yeah. I think, you know, Christine, you, I don't know, rocked my world there actually.

So that's what I'm here for. Anyway, hope you liked it. And now for your story, when you're ready, I'm going to crack open my, my SP. Oh, please do go ahead. Let's crack into it. I want to hear your title first Oh, okay. We're gonna do the story. It's actually too unfortunately Allison Jackson Foy and then the ending bit is Angela Nobles Rothen Wait, it's two people. Yes. Well, it's sort of how they're their

stories kind of intertwine I'm sorry. I. He's like, I'm trying to learn. What does this trick mean? It means get away. Either there's this pink guy. Can you see his pink eye? Oh, poor baby. Oh, he's such a sad. Come here.

They don't the video patron or the video the non video watchers are gonna be like oh man i'm missing out on puppy pink eye it's disgusting you don't need to see it hank i'm not kidding let's your toys over there so it can be hard to figure out how to be a grown-up and not just eat you know leona's leftover mac and cheese all day, which is typically what I do. But that's what's so great about Faye Nutrition. They connect you directly with registered dieticians who are actual real life food and nutrition experts, not an app, you know, nothing like that. It's actual personalized nutrition counseling. I just had my first session and I loved her. She was the best. She's helping me figure out how to like

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All right let's crack into it. Three, two, one. Very pretty, very pretty. That was a good one. Okay we're cracking into this case folks. Today I have, well first I want to give a little bit of context here because as you know if you're listening through in order, we've had two live episodes recently which we have not done that in a long time. And I apologize especially because May was, you know, I was going to spend more time talking about indigenous cases and missing and murdered indigenous people month and I didn't get to really do that. I did one story and then, you know, but I will say we have several coming up so I wanted to point that out before people

think I just kind of moved on. It was an unfortunate timing basically, but I have a couple coming up. What? I was going to say are we doing one today or in the future? We're not doing one today. This was going to be, well anyway, doesn't matter, but essentially we're working on Navi, how do you say that? Neveah. We're working on Neveah Kingbird who's been missing since October 2021 and Ashley Loring heavy runner. And apparently that was, so that was a case we were going to do this week, but there was so much more information on it. And it was such a bigger case than most of the MMIP stories, because she actually was an advocate for MMIW and she actually worked on finding

and trying to help find and share the stories of missing and murdered indigenous women and then became a missing indigenous woman, right? So there's like a lot of- Race. I know, it's fucking doubly horrible, but it means there's actually a lot more information, whereas a lot of these other cases

just don't have that much. Anyway, I wanted to say that too because I call people I think they're just trolling me, but they're like, oh Your stories are so so short and blah blah blah and I'm like, I mean That the the the one I did a couple weeks ago. Yeah, you know, there aren't there aren't many Articles about the murders of these young women. So, you know, sometimes they're short and I can't help it. The story is as long as the story is, right? And the story is as long as the reporting is.

And sometimes we can't, you know, banter about some of these, so they feel short, and I apologize for that, but. Yeah, certainly, not that it's easier to banter through some of them, but sometimes it's easier to banter through some of them But sometimes it's easier to banter through some of them. Yeah, sometimes we get in so I get into the dark stuff way quicker Sometimes I bring up talking points that are you know, so I don't sometimes It's a sillier crime and like this is not very silly No, exactly and and sometimes the history of it can be funny or fun

But like yeah, that's not the case here. And you know, some stories, I guess, are just shorter, but it wasn't intentional if anybody was wondering that. I know people were like, oh, maybe she's shortening her stories. I'm not doing that on purpose. So the next three and a half hour episode, you'll know that's true. I hope that's not today, but you know, just saying.

Hank hoped it's not today, but whatever, I don't care. Yeah, I know. Hank, yeah, I was gonna say. Can I ask real quick what your time code is? I just wanna make sure I didn't mess up my garage fan just now. Oh yeah, sure, 111. Okay, cool.

It had a pop-up and I didn't know if that were in there. 111. Yes, 111, okay, perfect. Yeah, no worries. Okay, so all that to say, there are more stories of MMIW coming up and I apologize for the delay on those. It's just been really wild times. So let's get into this story today.

This is the story of Allison Jackson Foy. And then at the end, I'll be covering just a brief segment on Angela Noble's Ruffin. And you'll see kind of how they're linked as we as we go through the story. So we're going to begin with Allison Jackson Foy. She was born Allison Mazaluski in March of 1972. She grew up on Long Island, New York as the youngest of four children, and she was very close with her siblings and her dad growing up on Long Island. From an early age, she excelled as a student at her father's dance studio. He had a dance studio, imagine, it's the 70s. See this is where I come in with some banter.

It's the 70s. What would you name your dance studio? Like kids. Mostly kids. Oh. What if it's the 70s? I don't know my first thought was something disco but if I'm shooting for kids then maybe it's like a rock and roll kind of thing. Oh yeah. Hmm. The the the fuck. I didn't give you much time and I apologize because this is a big question with a lot of nuance to it.

There would be a pun, I'll tell you that immediately. It would have to be, right? Shit. Is it disco? Does it matter? It's not disco, it's called Let's Make Music and Dance. Okay. I'm not a fan. I'm not, but I see where it came from. It's not disco. It's called Let's Make Music and Dance. Okay, I see. I'm not a fan.

I'm not, but I see where it came from. Isn't that like a lyric? Is it? Oh, no, no, no. I was thinking, let's dance, let's dance. That's not. No, I'm sure that was also a studio back then, but this one's called Let's Make Music and Dance,

which feels like- That is weird. No, I agree. I don't find it to be the most catchy name I would have named my glitter or something. I don't know. I would have found a Something kids like with a Z. I don't know. I would have come up with something. It was specifically a kids dance hall I yes because by the time she got older she was teaching the kids herself and They did gymnastics. I think there as well

It's kind of like a so does that open up more possibilities perhaps it does it does maybe well We'll discuss in a yappy hour. Oh wait. That's a great idea. Okay. We'll come up with our own 1970s dance hall and gymnasium name. Sure. Okay, great. That's the catchiest Yabbi hour we'll do yet. Okay, so anyway, her students adored her, so did their parents, and she was just a well-loved person as they of course always are. Courtney, Alison's eldest daughter from her first marriage, also lived with her mother, her youngest sister, and her stepdad, Mike. So those who knew her said that she was dedicated

to her children and her family above all else. So when Mike was struggling to find work locally in 2005, he asked her to move the family to Wilmington, North Carolina. And she agreed. She said, all right, like if that's what's best for the kids and for our family, then let's do that. However, it was really hard because she was very close to her siblings.

But on top of that, the move, which she was hoping would make things easier and better for them, did not. It didn't go well. So things just got worse between the two of them. It was very tumultuous. They argued so often that Courtney actually became so distressed She moved out to live with her father and that would be Allison's ex-husband and that really devastated her It was like a humongous blow to her and she knew at this point like this is kind of Make or break I need to get my shit together. Yeah. And turn things around.

So in June of 2006 she reached out to her sister Lisa and said I need sister time. I feel like that is the best like literally the moment you're like okay I've reached a breaking point sister time like question this shit out. Question for you What is what is your and this is me trying to also do banter before it gets too dark. What is your? Reasoning for sister time versus your your reasoning for brother or sibling time because You have sister time, but there's such an age gap that I feel like, does that get in the way, and would you hang out with Andy instead?

Yes, I consider, I feel like I'd be like, for big picture things, like turning my life around, I mean, I would probably have my sister take me to the boba tea place and then get my nails done, but I think beyond that, and she could be a sounding board, but I think when it comes to the very serious, yeah, when it's like bigger stuff that's more, you know, not Gen Z and not Not something I need to burden her with

Then yeah, I would go to my brother, but then I would I basically I'm just like oh, he's sort of like a sister in that way You know, I'm like he's just he's much more sensitive and whatever than I feel like most I don't know guys are most guys most brothers I guess so well sidebar I I had to tell you earlier that someone at the dog park I like said the beach too sandy and it would be just any water too wet and I explained why it's called that I've never heard a like a jolly Santa Claus belly roll laugh. I've never, someone thought it was the funniest thing they've heard all year long. They're like, what's the podcast called that I described?

I mean, I've never, I was like, nothing. Oh my gosh, I've never seen anyone react excitedly like that, so that's awesome. I was like, nothing I've said in all of our conversations ever has made you laugh the way that that fucking made you laugh. That was crazy. Wow, well, they're gonna be sorely disappointed by the podcast when they hear that it's not just us saying that joke, you know? I want you to know that nothing you say is

probably funnier to them than the title. It's never gonna get funnier. Yeah, I've already peaked with this person. Anyway, I went to say it earlier, so sorry. Well, I'll let you know if I get an email saying, you know, I've heard about you at the dog park, then I'll know. Yeah, it's a guaranteed new listener. Oh, all right. Okay. I love when it translates to actually listening. That's maybe they'll write. Maybe they'll write. So sorry, so sorry. No, good, good questions. Yeah, I don't really, yeah, I don't know. Sister time I feel like is not something that I

Yeah, I don't really, yeah, I don't know. Sister time, I feel like is not something that I experience in the traditional sense, but I kinda get it, you know? Like I get why you would need sister time in this moment. Maybe in a few more years, maybe like when she's in her 30s. I do think so because she, well, I'm not gonna put her on blast like that,

but she went through some stuff recently that everyone kinda goes through, but it's like just relationship stuff and things where it's like bumpy. And I think we got a lot closer after that because it was like, oh, you know, we have this shared understanding and you know, I don't know.

And I got to go, I did get to do Sister Time because I went over there with like all, I had to go over there and it was a whole thing. But anyway, yeah, we got sister time then we brought I brought her basically the equivalent of Boba and getting her nails done. You know, the opposite. So yeah. So I guess I do sometimes have sister time. Thanks. That's nice. All right. Where am I? So she goes, let's go to Wilmington, maybe things will get better and easier. But no, things get so tumultuous that her daughter moves in with her dad, which is Allison's ex.

And this is like really, really hard. This is when she decides to turn things around. Goes for sister time. And her sister Lisa actually rented her a car. And Allison drove to Lisa's with her youngest daughter, Jordan. So there she told Lisa everything that was going on. She said her marriage was falling apart, her life was just not where she wanted it to be. And she told Lisa that she and Mike were struggling financially.

Apparently, which by the way, at this point Lisa didn't know this yet and Allison didn't tell her, but she would find out later that at this point already, Allison had been suspected of stealing from multiple previous employers. And her sister explains later, like, yeah, she was so broke, she was trying to feed her family.

So, you know, you can see how that, like she said, I basically can understand how that happened, you know? Yeah, it's the literal classic moral question. It's lame is, right? Like, yeah's the literal classic moral question or ethical question. Yeah, exactly. Do I steal the feed of my family? Have I watched Les Mis? Certainly not.

Do I know what it's about? Not really, but I think it's that. So, you know, that's my guess. Sure, today it is, yes. Today it is. So, the foys were in a very tight situation and moving didn't help. I'm sure it only added strain.

And now her daughter left the house, so she's just really feeling it. And she's telling her sister all this, and she says, you know, I've considered divorcing Mike, but she just feels really strongly about keeping the family together because her parents got divorced when she was two, and apparently it just caused a lot of turbulence,

and she got the brunt of it as the youngest. And her sister basically said like, she was so scared to repeat something like that to her own kids. But clearly, things weren't working out. So it's almost like, well, the current plan's not working any better, right? So maybe try it.

We're gonna have to do it, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna have to do it. So her whole family was behind her and her sister said, it is time for you to stand up for yourself, make some changes that you need to do, you know what that is, whatever it is for you to change how things are going,

go do it. So Alison said, you're right, I'm gonna take control of my life. She went back to Wilmington in that rental car. She was ready to figure shit out and within two weeks she had a job as the assistant manager at a local Holiday Inn. Hey girl.

I know and she calls her sister and her sister says she has never heard her so happy. Like she was just overjoyed that she was able to get something stable and you know, manager position or I guess assistant manager position it was just like such a 180 and she was already so optimistic about the future and first thing of course she wanted to stabilize her finances before getting her daughter back and all that stuff.

Her sister was just so thrilled and relieved that sister time had worked I guess. Yay! so thrilled and relieved that Sister Time had worked, I guess. And I know on Saturday, July 29th, which was about four days into starting her new job at the hotel, Allison went out to celebrate with her best friend in Wilmington. His name is Chris Williams. So Chris was described by people as Allison's sounding board. Basically, he was like the friend she could talk to about anything, I guess, sister time in its own way,

like we were saying. This guy was just like a BFF character that she was really close with and they shared a lot with each other. So they were at the bar and after a night of wine and celebration at this place called Junction Pub and Billiards, Chris and Allison agreed that she had drunk a little too much to drive herself home. So Chris told the bartender to call a taxi and they sat down and talked for a

bit. Shortly afterward, a man walked in and said, hey, I'm here for whoever called the taxi. So Allison says good night to Chris and leaves with the taxi driver and Chris leaves about 20 minutes later by himself. On Sunday morning, Alison's husband, Mike, awoke to find that Alison hadn't come home. But because they were fighting so much and their daughter had moved out

and he basically just thought she was out with a friend and was pissed at him and Just didn't tell him that she was still out. And in hindsight, yikes. Yeah, it's not good in hindsight Exactly Yeah, yeah Mike didn't reach out For a while and he just assumed like things were fine. So it

wasn't until Monday, two days later, that he finally called the police and said, hey, my wife hasn't come home this weekend and it's not like her. Now one weird thing which I can kind of see both sides is that Mike didn't call Allison's family and this was really hurtful to them because obviously a point of contention because the family's like, why the hell wouldn't you call us? Instead, Allison's dad, John, had to find out on a voicemail left by the police. And it's like, if a family member could have told him, that would have maybe been an easier,

not that anyway, easier to find out, but it was just odd. I've thought about this before. I'm like, if something were to happen to Alice and I find out. I've thought about this too. And honestly, I actually have had the thought of, I think I would put off telling her parents for as long as possible because I wouldn't know how to. And you know when you watch a show and they're like,

I thankfully have not been in this position, but when they have to share bad news and they're like, do you want me to say it? And they're like, no, I have to be the one to do it. I'm like, I don't know if I'd be, I think I'd be too chickenship for that. Me too, I think I would be. I mean, I think if I had to, I would, but I would certainly hope someone else would volunteer.

I think if someone volunteered, like in every show they're like, no, I'll do it. And it's like, why? They just offered to do it. I'm not that good of a person. I would like to be, but I can't. And it's like, why? They just offered to do it. I'm not that I'm not that good of a person. I would like to be, but I'm like, maybe there's something in that moment where you're in adrenaline. You know what I mean?

Like maybe there's something that kicks in. I have no idea. But I feel like I'd be a chicken shit about it. I know that I would only do it because I know if something happened to Alison, she would be in like if I had to think about it, she would have been really mad at me if I didn't tell her parents right away but I know that I would be wanting to hold that off for as long. Yeah that's like a scary position to be in. Well and you know I think about it with with this guy too that he was the one who didn't call the police for two

days like that's not gonna look very good and it's gonna really piss her family off that now this is a delay of two whole days of a missing persons case. So like I imagine he was like, oh fuck, like I don't know what, and I'm not saying like, oh this is the right thing to do, I'm just saying, you know, some people say it points to guilt and I'm sort of like, well it also kind of points

to somewhat estranged husband of the family that like kind of fucked up and doesn't want to make that phone call, you know? I think that's how I see it, but you know, some people of course found it a bit suspicious. I can see both sides for sure. I agree, I agree. So here we are,

Allison's father, John, finds out his daughter's missing from a voicemail left by the police and he had to call Allison's siblings to tell them what was going on. Of course they were shocked that Mike hadn't called them and you know, it wasn't even that she had died, it was just that she was missing. So they were like, well, you could have told us and we could have like, help, tried to help, you know, which I do also feel like is a point. Like if they should have been notified right away, if it was something like that they could contribute to,

you know, and because it was a disappearance, then like, you know, they probably would wanna know right away, so I see their side for sure. They all convened in Wilmington where they learned that investigators suspected Allison had left town of her own accord. And they're like, I don't know about that. But the car Lisa had rented for Allison,

which Allison had continued to use when she got to Wilmington, was parked at the bar where she left it. So they were like, well, she obviously didn't skip town because there's the car she was driving. Investigators were able to read Allison's diary, which her manager found at work. I guess she kept it at work maybe to hide from the husband. I'm not sure. I would speculation, but you know, I think I or just maybe that's if you're doing like overnightnights Maybe you just want to write in your journal at night. I can also see that I also think like it's

Trying to get away from your husband like that. I would Your brave to even have a diary at that point. We just I agree because I mean in there, you know the she talked about all their arguments and what she was trying to to You know plan for the future. So yeah, I imagine that was pretty personal. And when her boss found it, the police of course took a look at it. She wrote about her arguments with Mike, financial problems, potential drug use,

which her sister confirmed, at least of her own knowledge, prescription pills. From sister time. From sister time, right. And as the police learned about these struggles and the accusations against her by former employers because remember her sister didn't know yet but two previous employers were apparently accusing her of stealing money in the past. And they basically put two and two together and said, oh, she must have essentially run

away. Like she must have fled to escape the stress and the legal issues. And like on paper, maybe that makes some sense. But of course, inevitably her family comes in and goes, absolutely not. It's impossible. She would not leave her daughters behind. That's all she cared about. And her whole plan was working towards getting her kids back.

Exactly. And even if she decided to leave for a while or skip town, she would have told somebody in the family, like there was just simply no way she would just vanish without telling one of them that she was okay. And, you know, she just wouldn't do that to her kids. And it was also like, she had just turned things around, right? Like she had just gotten this job and she was so excited and she was happier than ever. So it also didn't fit with how things were going. So Alison's family said, that's not what happened and we don't believe it. And they took posters, they went out canvassing for information on the streets of Wilmington. They did everything they could to spread the word.

They actually traveled to New York City and stood in the crowd of the Today Show, and they had t-shirts, and they actually asked people around them, like, hey, would you be willing to wear this t-shirt on air, you know, in the crowd? And so they got to the front, and they had posters, and they basically gave the website, you know, helpfindallison.com or whatever it was.

And yeah, they got like a couple seconds of airtime. So they were able to spread awareness that way, which was really cool. And through all this, they're of course trying to find her themselves. And so they repeatedly try to call Allison only to discover one day that Mike has canceled her phone line.

Almost as soon as he reported her missing, he put in the request to cancel her phone line. That's weird. And it's weird, definitely weird. I'm trying to also play the other side where I'm like, some people, the way that they grieve is they just go right into tasks of like, okay. So maybe that's well and also

they were in a really tight financial situation um and she was only four days into her job so i don't know like what the payment situation was but he did say he did it because he didn't want to i mean okay he said he did it to save money on the phone bill but it, well, if your wife is like, but maybe he really believed she skipped out. I have no clue. Like, I don't know. It doesn't look good. No, it does not look good. Especially if the sisters-in-law are already mad at you for not calling them directly. Yeah, it's not a good look. And then the waiting two days, like it's starting to feel kind of icky.

Her family was pissed, obviously. What if Allison was somewhere and needed to call for help? What if she needed that phone? What if she was trapped somewhere? What if she had left but needed to contact them? I mean, we're pissed, rightfully so. And of course this started to become a little bit of a red flag with Mike because he didn't assist the family at all in any of this.

He didn't actually even look for her at all. And the police were not thrilled about this. They searched their home and Mike's vehicle for any sign of foul play, but they didn't find anything. And ultimately Mike was cleared. And Chris, who of course they looked at next because he was the last person, you know, who spent time with Allison at the bar, he was also cleared. And investigators focused their efforts next on the bar where Allison was last seen.

And this is when they discovered something disturbing. Uh-oh. Yeah. So after checking phone records and dispatch records for local taxi companies, there was no record anywhere that a taxi had been called for Allison. So who was the guy that walked in and said, I'm here to take Allison to her home. There was no record a taxi had ever been called for Allison. There was also no record that any taxi went to that location at the time Allison left. Nobody had any idea who Allison left with that night. And that was where they were for a little bit.

Allison's family hired a private investigator named Mark Benson which sounds like a private investigator. Well, because Olivia Benson. Yeah, okay true and it's Mark with a C which just feels like what an author would write. Yeah, 100%. Just change it up a little bit. He's not a normal Mark. No, no, no. He's a cool Mark with a C. Yeah, but he's never a Mark because he's Mark Benson. That's right. Let's write that down for a comic book. Okay. So they hired Mark Benson, PI, and he spends a year on the case. And okay, he spends a year on this case and by September of 2007, he even admits

like things were slow. We really weren't getting any leads not much was going on progress wise for the case and then out of the blue he receives this email from a woman named Susan Iannone and Susan is angry because according to her her husband Tim was a suspect in Allison's disappearance. And he goes, I'm sorry, what? And she goes, I swear Tim had nothing to do with this and I want his name cleared. Mark goes, who's Tim? Like who the hell is Tim?

This is not a person that has ever come up on the case. In that moment I would be like, am I a bad detective? Yeah, right, right? I'd be like, am I a bad detective? Yeah, right, right? I'd be like, what in the fuck have I missed? This feels like divine intervention here. This woman just calls and goes, hey, my husband Tim didn't do it. He was like, who the fuck is Tim?

And so this was, of course, a surprise to Mark because his name had not come up during his investigation not once and he's like Who's Tim who? And she says Tim Iannone Likewise the police were not investigating anyone by that name in connection to Allison's disappearance And it seemed as if the only people accusing Tim of any involvement with Allison Was was the the group of people that she hearing, which were the patrons at the bar that he frequented. And, hey, guess what?

It happened to be the bar where Allison disappeared. But also, did he say or did whoever got her from the bar, did they specifically say Allison's name? Like they must have known her or been hired by someone who knew her? No. And I think I misspoke because I did sort of imply that the taxi driver came in and said like, I'm here for Allison, whatever. There was not even a phone call made out to request a cab for her, they found out after

looking at phone records. Like Chris basically asked the bartender, can you call a taxi for Allison? The bartender's like, sure. And then the guy just showed up. And this guy walks in. He doesn't say Allison, but he says, I'm here for whoever called a taxi. Did anybody call a taxi? But what are the odds that like...

Well, I'll tell you. Okay. This is gossip because Tim Iannone, he's always being talked about in this bar. Okay in this area. He's he's a known figure Me at the dog park, right? Except The bad bad except the bad side, right? So it's like me at that dog birthday party. Yes

You're the villain of the story. Yeah, so the only people basically accusing Tim of any involvement with Alison were patrons at the bar. And it was basically just gossip. And his wife was pissed off because she was like, everyone's talking about how he's a suspect and I want you to clear his name. And in doing so, she put him directly on the fucking radar for this PI because he's like, wait, what? Like, who's Tim? And she's like, everyone's talking about it PI because he's like wait what like who's Tim and she's like everyone's talking about it and he's like why would you tell me that the way I would divorce my wife so fucking quickly if she just threw me under the goddamn bus like that and I could have gotten away with it too

if it weren't for that meddling wife like hello that damn wife of mine yeah I swear like she was like well it turns out it was all just gossip But of course gossip. Hey where there's smoke there's fire So mark reported the email and tim's information to the police thinking like this probably won't go anywhere. There's just gossip but um The police get a hold of this and they go. Uh, oh tim ayanoni. We know this guy pretty damn well So, Tim Ioannoni, we know this guy pretty damn well. He had just been charged, only weeks earlier, in August 2007, for kidnapping and raping a sex worker at Knifepoint.

This was a fucking bad, violent man. In questioning, Tim claimed that his only crime was soliciting sex. He denied the rape and kidnapping charges, as well as any knowledge that Allison Jackson Foy even existed. He claimed he had never even heard of her. But also if you're out there assaulting people, you're probably not getting their name beforehand.

Good fucking point. Yeah, good fucking point. Saw a woman and went, okay, and then. I imagine they said, do you know this person? I mean, I assume they showed a photo, because he was like, never heard of her, never seen her. Of course. But Chris Williams had given a description of the taxi driver that walked in and said, I'm here for whoever called a taxi.

And hey, it looked a lot like Tim Ayanoni. And ain't that weird. He also drove a blue van for Port City, which was a local taxi business. Eryn- Whoopsies, hello. Kat- Oops, hello. His phone number was actually written down behind the bar for patrons to call and regulars often at the bar said he would hang around and pick people up to make an extra buck.

Eryn- Oh, so he just walked in and just hoped someone had called the cab. Correct. Because it would not look weird. Because he just knew drunk people were there. And he was like, hey, how about you? I'll take you home. It's like going on a Friday night to the busiest bar

and then going, hey, looking for the drunk person. It's like, someone's bound to be there. Yes, like, come on in. I'll drive you home. The cab you called is here. And it just is bad fucking timing because who knows? I mean, maybe she still would have gone with him, but who knows, like if Chris hadn't gone to the bar

and said, hey, call a cab, please, maybe they wouldn't have assumed that was for them, you know? Maybe they would have said, no, sorry, that's not for us. You know that eats them alive at night. I mean, of course, and it must just feel like total shit. You know, it's like, it's just gotta be awful. So anyway, some places call it Port City cab or Port City taxi, depending on the source,

but he essentially drove a blue van for Port City. And this number, his phone number was written behind the bar for patrons to call and regulars said he hung around late at night and would pick people up to make an extra fare. And he himself was also a regular at the bar. And so now you can see how this gossip is like, kind of really part of the bar's whole lore at this point.

The reality, yeah. Yeah, his wife is really not happy about it. The police homed in on Tim as their first real suspect in the case and Allison's family was hopeful they might finally get some answers. But unfortunately there was no physical evidence proving Tim's involvement. And it was clear that if he were involved,

he would not be admitting to it anytime soon. So fast forward to late April, 2008. This is nearly two years since Allison's disappearance, her family receives a call from the authorities. Human remains have been discovered in the woods just a few miles from Junction Pub and Billiards where she was last seen. Weirdly though, the remains belong to two people. Okay. Both were completely decomposed. One person had been left in a low ditch and vegetation had grown over their remains before a second person was left directly on top of the first person. Wow. Yeah and

it's just got to be weird to have this kind of job that I'm about to mention. Investigators were able to observe the amount of plant growth over the first set of remains and then determine that the second person was killed and left there a full year, like a full calendar year after. The second person was left there, I'm sorry, a full calendar year after the first. So they were able to figure that out just by how the plants were how the plants were growing which is intuitive to some people but not what is that like just like forensic vegetation? Like what is that? Oh my god forensic husbandry Wait are we

Did we just be what have we done? We made a full circle. That was what oh Something happened there. Wow. Wow. That was what that was. Oh, something happened there. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Okay. We just changed something. Carry on. Oh, I shall. So, they were able to determine that somebody had been left there an entire year before the second body had been laid directly on top. And it was suspected that the first remains that had been there the longest might belong to Allison because there was a pink sweater at the scene that matched the description of the one

she wore to the bar with Chris. Horrible. And they had to send photos to Allison's sister of jewelry discovered at the scene, and her sister confirmed, yes, that belonged to Allison. And of course, now Allison's family is sure that Allison is dead, however it takes medical examiners nearly six months to use DNA

to confirm that the remains did in fact belong to Allison. Six months, talk about waiting and driving. That waiting, because you're like, I have the closure, I just need like the final staple or whatever the fuck, I just need the final closure. And yeah, it took a while, but it took six months, they did confirm it was Alison's remains, or they were Alison's remains. And, you know, based on this evidence now that they finally had police believed Alison was killed the night she disappeared,

and that her remains had just been in that same spot since the moment she died. She was only 34 years old. It's just wild to me. I put that back in there because it's like so, so young. 34 years old. The autopsy found that Allison was covered in deep lacerations having been stabbed at least 40 times. And the attack seemed either extremely personal or just extremely enraged, you know, just extremely angry. 40 times. And I feel like sometimes we feel like it's personal and then it turns out they are just

like... They snapped. Or they just like hate women or something or they hate their mother and they're like, you know, you know, that kind of transference. The projection thing, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it could be that. Allison's friend, Peter Roach, said

he believed Allison would have fought to the very end to get home to her daughters. So her family and friends at least chose to believe that. Maybe that's why there was 40 stabs, because she was fighting him. Maybe that's exactly what he was implyinglying and I just didn't even understand that. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're totally right. The other remains, which of course were a surprise, belonged to a woman named Angela

K. Nobles Rothen. She was only 42 when she disappeared in June of 2007. She was very, very, very, very beloved by her. She was a sister, a mother, a grandma, had a beloved extended family and had disappeared in June of 2007 and basically left no trace. Her skull when they discovered her remains had been fractured, as well as bones in her face, and her cause of death appeared to be a laceration to the neck. And, you know, of course, Angela and Alison's families are finally able to do things like publish obituaries and make final arrangements to lay them to rest.

The killer is still out there, right? They haven't actually put anybody behind bars yet. So Alison's friend, Peter Peter goes to Wilmington with Alison's sister and they stop at the site where Alison and Angela were found because they wanna leave flowers, they wanna pay their respects. Well, don't you know it,

they find more bones on the ground. Great. They contact police and are like, there are human bones here. And they determine that the bones belong to Allison. However, investigators had thoroughly collected all of the

remains when they were first discovered. Are they just being placed there again? Like this is an escape room or something? Sort of. The local media had reported that Allison's family was coming to collect her remains and it appeared that the murderer knowing the family was coming to town put more bones out just to fuck with them. Also that that tells you that they were keeping her bones as trophies and like it just had extras. That's a really good point because like if they had just been left there.

No, he kept some. Yeah, he must. Yeah, exactly. He did Yeah, also he probably still had more because I can't imagine he would put all of them out and like lose his like little trophy For his collection. Creepy trophy. Oh my god, that's so sick That's so sick So yeah, basically he sees on the news that they're coming to pay respects at the shrine or at the memorial site and puts her bones. I mean, that's sick. That's so fucking sick.

That's evil. It's evil. It's evil. So with no more leads, police turned to the public for help. An employee at a seafood restaurant near the site where the remains were discovered reported that on several occasions he saw something a little bit suspicious or at least odd. He said he saw a man park a blue Port City taxi van behind the restaurant and hang up a tarp. Okay. And they were like, cool, cool, cool. Here's our FBI sketch artist. Can you please draw him? And guess what, his

glasses which were like a particular shape they matched exactly to the Tim Iannone drawing from earlier. It looked just like him. The remains of Angela and Allison were also discovered just a hundred yards from the site where a sex worker accused Tim of raping her. So you, it's close to the bar where he was a regular. It's a hundred yards from where a sex worker accused him of raping her. Just, it's kind of obvious, right? Yeah.

So police are able to cite probable cause to search Tim's property and vehicles, but they could not find a single shred of evidence linking him to either murder. In an interview Lee Odom, Detective Sergeant of Wilmington PD said, I thoroughly believe that the evidence exists to prosecute Timothy Iannone for murder, at least for the murder of Allison Foy, but that evidence just has not been found and he hasn't been able to indict Tim for either of the murders. In 2012, however, he was indicted for embezzlement and breaking and entering, for which he served

six years. And then in December of 2022, Tim, who was then 62 years old, was sentenced to at least 48 years in prison for raping a woman in 1996. So he was still being... There was no... he was going gonna keep doing what he was doing. He was... exactly. Yeah, exactly. Michelle, who was primarily identified by only her first name and sources to protect her privacy, reported the rape and underwent a rape kit in 1996 when it had happened, but it sat untested for over 20 years because the backlog of rape kits. And attached to her rape kit was paperwork, which did identify Tim as a suspect. And so finally in 2019, there was enough funding to process the backlogged rape kits and Tim

was finally definitively identified in the case and ultimately convicted and sentenced for the crime. So essentially if that had happened back in the 90s, you know, and there wasn't this shortage of tech available or this whatever, whatever you want to get into it, but the backlog of rape kits, if that hadn't been a problem, he probably would have gone to jail, you know, and not been around. Yeah, it just sucks, you know, it's of course it's kura-shura-wura and like, thankfully, at least it was ultimately processed, but it just sucks to hear 20 years, you know, where he's just getting away with it. So during their investigation,

law enforcement spoke to six other women, most of whom were sex workers, some of whom were unhoused, and they also accused Tim of attacking and assaulting them. Some of them accused him of attacking them basically at the exact site where Angela's and Allison's remains were discovered, again, linking him. These testimonies strengthened,

detectives resolved that Tim is guilty of Angela's and Allison's murders. Allison's family are very sure of this exact same thing. Following the sentencing Allison's oldest daughter Courtney said, Michelle's my hero right now. It took her 26 years to get the justice that she has very much deserved, and we've been waiting 16 years for ours. She pleaded that anyone with any information on her mother's murder would come forward so that her family could seek justice and closure. Alison's sister, Lisa Valentino, said she would not give up hope that her sister and

Angela will one day receive justice. And I really hope they do, because I feel like we do see things changing, like technology, and we never know what's next, which I know we talk about a lot. But yeah, that's the story. And I don't feel like we're out of hope that this will get solved. It feels like it's solvable, I hope. Feel solvable. The fact that he's still alive.

They're pretty sure they know who did it. I don't know. I just hope. Knock on wood. Knock on wood. Well. Good bad story, Christine. Thank you. You always do it best. Thanks. And worst and worst. Update to everybody this tangerine strawberry,

San Pellegrino just tastes like fake strawberry. I think I'm going to like it. And you're not. Yeah. I do not like it. So you will love. It sounds delicious to me. No, thank you. But there is a. What I'm sorry. Imagine saying blood and then just starting a coughing fit in the other person's like

what? There's blood? I was gonna say blood orange and blackberry one next. I knew you were gonna say blood orange. I love blood orange. That actually maybe sounds even better to me than the strawberry one. Hmm. Do you have a favorite fruit?

I think blood orange. You've talked about this before. I love oranges. Yeah, I feel like blood orange is one of my favorite flavors. What about you? What about a strawb? Or is that not top? Only chocolate strawb.

Well, I mean, I know how you feel about that. I like berries and stone fruits are my usual two categories, but my favorite fruit is like an orange clementine situation. Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah. But I'll take that. Every time I eat one, every time I eat one, I go, holy shit, this is incredible. I'm like, damn, nature's cool. Yeah. Nature's yummy. You know, mmm.

Well, speaking of food, if you want to hear us talk about these menus behind me, and you would like to see what you would have ordered in the 1930s. Oh my god, I'm going to place my order. I'm so excited. You can head over to Patreon and you can also hear us come up with our 70s kids' pub names. Yeah, or not, because we probably will never figure it out, but we'll try. Head on over to Patreon and we'll see you next week. And that's why we drink.