And That's Why We Drink - E435 The Schnapps Age and the Little Chicken Man

Episode Date: June 8, 2025

It’s Episode 435 and our delayed birthday episode!! To celebrate Em brings Christine a story from one of her favorite topics, the UFO abduction of Kristina Florence. Then Christine covers the sad and extremely frustrating case of the murder of Jabez Spann, which remains unsolved to this day. And can anybody tell us, why do dogs hate architecture? …and that’s why we drink! Photo Links:Big Gay Car Bumper StickerKristina FlorenceJabez Spann Want to see Christine and Xandy live? Visit https://www.beachtoosandy.com/ for tickets!___________________Watch The Life of Chuck in select theaters now and everywhere on June 13th! Give the “dads” in your life a unique, heartfelt gift you’ll all cherish for years—Storyworth! Right now, save $15 during their Father’s Day sale when you go to http://storyworth.com/drink ! Take advantage of this exclusive offer: For a limited time get 40% off your first box, PLUS get a free item in every box for life. Go to http://hungryroot.com/drink and use code DRINK. New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills. Visit Audible.com/DRINK or text DRINK to 500-500. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome everybody. I am living in terror over here with this high energy dog that can't get any of his energy out. Tick tock. The clock is ticking. We have it. Before he realizes what's happening. I feel like my background isn't as good. I'm being back. I'm back at this time Because you don't have your menus. Well because he's sitting it's like he's sitting over there. I don't want to even know you don't Yeah, so we're on the other bench of the nook and

I'm just counting down the minutes until today. He first of all has pink eye So I couldn't board him and I couldn't get anyone to watch him that has a dog. And now we have people out in the back doing work, so now I can't. He's trapped with you. We're all trapped with him and it's just going to be. How did the vet go? He apparently did like a bunch of tests on his eye because they thought he like scratched his cornea From the dog park his his best friend Callie their favorite thing to do is pull on each other's face Oh good

So basically it feels like I'm watching leather face like in action They they grab the earth their jowls and just oh my god What the geo literally left the room just now. Like, do you hear that? He's leaving. He's like, that's actually too much for me. His favorite thing is yanking on her face and Callie, that's also her favorite thing. So I was worried that like maybe he got his eye messed up,

but it was once again just Pink Guy. Once again, same old, same old. And last time when Allison was here to help me give him the ointment every day, it worked a lot better when there was a second person to help hold them down. But now it's just me and one of my hands, because the other one's holding the ointment. Yeah.

So it's just a lot over here. You could really do a vlog, because I think I would watch this just in the background. I would watch that just playing on the TV of you trying to, you know, keep the dog under one arm. I'm doing it right now. He found my fingers and now thinks that he's getting closer. It's just we're just seconds from him trying to get on this table. Anyway, so we're I feel like I'm chasing the clock here, which is not fair to either of us because this is our belated birthday episode. Yeah, well, it was kind of my fault we got mixed up.

Well, I don't know. We forgot it was our birthday. We forgot our birthday episode. Until the end of the episode and we went, uh-oh. Oh, do you want to see the sticker I got you? I meant to show you on the listener episode. I got you a sticker the other day. Oh, what does it say? I'm going to send a picture of it to you.

It's right here. Because I was like, I crack myself up, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, if there's one thing I know about you it's that I'm it's a very funny you're just gonna crack yourself up oops what did I do I opened a banner on this okay okay sorry I gotta go get the sticker again I went to send it to you yesterday when we recorded the listener episode where Where'd you find it? At the, there's a store in Covington here called Tanzee with a Z.

It's just a really adorable shop. That's funny, there's a store here that I think you'd really like called Tanzee. Oh, yeah. Which is like two neighborhoods away from me. Here I go in my big gay car, yes! Like putting that on a Subaru is kind of homophobic in its own way, in a beautiful way.

I love it, it just felt like the only person I knew who could actually like rightfully have that sticker. Absolutely, I'm putting that on my Subaru. You also do not have to, because I know I already made you put your Waffle House sticker on there. That thing's still on there, it's been there for years. Oh, here we go. Hank off, no.

Your eye looks better. Down, down. That means I'm shoving the ointment in his eyeball good. That's nice. Good job, I was telling you, good job, Em. Oh, thank you. Good boy. Hank down, I love you.

Oh, up. Well, Hank down and whoop. I'm at least, I'm like, you can lie down on the bench, but you, Hank, it's, he's. Hi, Deveni Mini. Everyone look at his eye. He's getting better. Where's your eye?

I like your collar. Oh, you're so cute. My goodness. You and Gia would have a riot. Hank off. Where's your eye collar? Oh, you're so cute. My goodness you and G. I would have a riot Hank off What's on your shirt? Oh, is that an Ozarks shirt? It's from we went to Ozark. Yeah, that one is that's fucking excellent That shirt it's a great one I'm wearing a Monterey shirt for Monterey. Look at us. Look at us. Well, I said jet setters the Ozarks

I have a hammerhead shark on my shirt Absolutely not Hank I'm gonna I should have I'm gonna What I have to do No, he's literally climbing on top of me Hank stop I love you By the way at the vet he refused to he's terrified of doors. Hank, stop. I love you, Hank. You have to sit down. By the way, at the vet, he refused to, he's terrified of doors. So I had to carry him.

Oh my God, he's terrified of doors. Oh, he's scared of doors. He's terrified of doors. Geo was scared of stairs. Have you tested that with Hank? Why do dogs hate architecture? Honestly, I don't know. Yeah, he's terrified of doors.

And so at the vet, I had to hold all 60 pounds of him the whole time the whole time We're gonna drug you okay Sorry, bye He um Oh, of course he's gonna chew it right next to me sure come on over um He is uh The only time I give him Any doggy like melatonin is when we record now, so I feel like that's kind of what I think he's like

Yeah to me. He's like give me the drugs give me the special recording drugs It's they're really nice though It's like advanced calming for like you're supposed to give them at the end of the night to a high-energy dog If like the walk wasn't enough. Oh, if it needs a little boost. I need to take that. But he's, he's, he never needs them until we're recording and I need him to like go away. So maybe not energy up. Yeah, so maybe not ethical, but whatever. I don't care. Everyone leave me alone.

Yeah, I feel like whatever, it's melatonin it's meant to it's meant to it's literally for them to relax and he needs to relax so I'm a new parents and I don't care I don't care I need to do my job let's brandy on his gums you know what they did with like this is the equivalent of that I guess I Gave him like a two-hour walk thinking I'd exhaust him that didn't work. So she's It's he needs to go to the dog park. He would be a lot better fuse. So anyway, anyway, we're just recording on like a doggy Thunderstorm just like the worst the worst Compilation of things speaking of you should get him a Thunder Vest. Gio fucking loves that thing.

He used to just sit next to it and wait for me to put it on him. Oh, I might actually. It's like a weighted blanket. It makes him just feel even like during the day, just more like secure. I certainly will do that. Especially next time we show. Yeah, it's worth a shot.

Because yesterday was our first time trying the Trastone, which our doctor, the doctor, that one wasn't my call everyone. doctor was like he can't come back here Because he's also terrified of doorways and guess we have to walk through to get to the vet absolutely not He It was as if he wasn't on any medication at all and so then they they've doubled it now and they said try it My god, he's like a conundrum, huh? Yeah, he's a medical marvel You know what? I'll tell him that later. Yeah Okay, last thing I'm gonna say about Hank the Wonder Dog. Sorry. I just now I'm just writing a comic book in my head

You know little babies. Um Well lately I've been calling him by little chicken man, and I don't know where that came from Yeah, those are the best nicknames when it literally means nothing and you're like what? I think his legs look like little chicken wings. Yeah These made little chicken man. Oh gosh so Hank the chicken man, but Last thing I'm gonna say about him. I swear like I'm not trying to be one of those like pet parents who like never shuts up We've been waiting for it Hank got a gift yesterday. Oh

Is it the thing I sent? Yes. Oh, good. Okay. Cause it was like, four weeks ago, I was like, I didn't know it would come so fast after it shipped. I didn't know you got it because the note says it's from Gio. That's interesting.

Oh, I'm sorry. Gio wrote me a note. I was reading it out loud for you. That was his message. Sorry, I wasn't clear. Oh, I didn't know it was already there. I did not even message. Sorry. I wasn't clear. Oh, I didn't know was already there I did not even know yeah, no the message said to Hank rough rough rough rough rough Geo Like I don't remember what it says Clearly at the time I also didn't know what it said

No, it's very sweet Geo got me got Hank. Excuse me a cookie jar for all of his little treaties Yeah, it's great that we now have dog pen pals. That's going to go really well. I know. And it's customized. So it even says his name. But it's very sweet. That was very nice of you. Oh, good. I'm glad you like it.

I hope it's not. It doesn't clash with your decor. I was like, it's kind of bold to buy something for people's house. It's already on the kitchen counter. I guess I didn't buy it. So it's not my problem. You know what? That's right. A dog doesn't know what the core is. That's fine. That's right No, he I got pictures for you of Him opening it. Oh He was a very big fan as soon as it came out of the box. I'm sorry it didn't come with treats in it. That would have been a little better.

Yeah, actually I'm gonna sue. What the fuck? That's crazy. Let's sue that company. Well, thank you for that I just wanted to give you a shout out. I was actually going to bring it and like show it to you. But the last thing I need to do right now is totally OK that you don't bring food directly on screen as you're trying to get the dog to ignore you. 100 percent. Anyway, back to the fact that it's our birthday episode.

It happens in a few days. You haven't even gone on your trip yet. So it's weird to like reflect on something that hasn't happened. But are you feeling 34 yet? I keep saying I'm 34, so I feel like I am definitely. Are you? Well, how do you feel?

Because you're turning a... Angel number. You're turning your... What is it called? An angel number, I guess? But my mom always calls it the schnapps age. I think I told somebody this, maybe my maybe Eva. She calls it the I guess in Germany, they call the schnapps age

because you see double. Oh, that's fun. And I was like, that's so cute. So you're turning a schnapps age. Yeah, that's lovely. That's I like that's more fun than angel number. I think so. I have this weird conundrum where age doesn't even exist to me until the week before I'm changing in age.

Yeah, it's really alarming. We have all experienced that from you before many times. It's called every year on our birthdays. So no one should be surprised that I'm actually struggling with it. Yeah, I'm not. I mean... Yeah, the end. So you're 32. That's exactly right and I'm gonna I'm 34. It's never changing. That's exactly right. Yeah we all know I hate change and also having to you know morbidity of death so whatever combined it's not very

fun. Maybe you only lived at 35 you know. You know what I officially it means I now have exactly two years to get those last ten states under my belt if I want to get that thing off my bucket list. Wow. By 35 I want to do all 50 states. So you meant by the time you die and I was like I was joking you're not going to really die in two years. No sorry by 35 that's my plan. I didn't know you had a time limit on that. Well that feels like a really aggressive bucket list to have it. No wonder you're stressed about getting old. My bucket list goes home like 350. Well, I'll, I'll, it'll be more, I'll be more Lucy goosey with it after 35,

but I want to hit up like I, I want Alaska to be my 35th birthday gift to myself. That's cool. Yeah. Um, yeah. So anyway, what are your goals for this? I know I ask you every year, but every year, every time we talk about it, but what do you still have? All the ones where people just go hiking. Like Montana. Oh, but that's a cowboy state. You probably see some cool stuff up there. I remember that was why I so desperately wanted to try to hit up Omaha, Nebraska when we were,

we were near there, but then. Hey, guess what what Beach Too Sandy has an Omaha, Nebraska show this fall M and I think you can check it off your you can get to check it off your list and now we can sell out Omaha because M will be there I can use you as a marketing ploy whatever if you can uh can you expense my flight to Omaha, Nebraska yeah sure uh no I do need a reason to go there. So, hey, why not? Well, listen, I'm giving you one.

I'm giving everyone one. Everybody come to Omaha. We're gonna have a great time. And we're going to Plano. We're going to a lot of really random towns I've never been to. You know, on our last tour, we should have asked Andrew to just send us

to all places I've never been to just check them off the list. I was gonna say, we should just be like Alaska, Nebraska The ask us they'll ask us don't know what it means. Oh, it means. Oh Christine. Well, happy birthday Are you what are you hoping your cake flavor will be this year? mmm, oh Thank you for asking. That's such an important question that Alarmingly nobody's asked me yet and I'm like, what is that supposed to mean everybody is this does that mean we forgot? Well it's just usually... Carrot cake's my favorite. You're not a carrot cake? I just feel I mean I don't it's not

number one. Yeah I think for some reason every birthday my stepmom would always buy one I think I just associate it with my birthday particularly. Hmm that's like no RJ has one for his birthday every year. When he was growing up, they would always get a Dairy Queen cake in the shape of a watermelon. That's so random. But he's a July birthday, right?

Yeah, so it was always like summer. Like he would always have, and also very fitting for him, they would always throw a pool party. And so it was always a watermelon shaped cake. That makes a lot. And he's a swimmer. Yeah, makes sense. And he's healthy.mer. Yeah makes me healthy

So might as well look like watermelon. I'm gonna pretend you're eating fruit. How fun But yeah, I was just because your cake you're gonna buy it for yourself because it sounds like I'm also gonna buy it for myself Well, my go-to is usually funfetti with chocolate frosting, but as I'm getting older, I don't like totally love chocolate frosting anymore So I think I'm gonna reverse them into chocolate cake with vanilla frosting. That'll be interesting. I don't like double of anything if it's vanilla vanilla fuck you and if it's chocolate chocolate fuck you but if it's you too on that they there has to be a switch a marriage between the two. I agree. Yeah yeah a swirl so swirl if you will. Anyway maybe our cakes can kiss we just smush them together but no I don't want carrot cake on my chocolate cake.

Yeah, I was gonna say, you're gonna get cream cheese frosting all over your vanilla frosting and you won't know which one's which and it's gonna really upset you. So I don't think we should do that. 100%, thank you for saying that. I'm gonna say no immediately on that.

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I forgot that I was going to tell you my ghost. Let me ask. Can I can I can I wind you up? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For my birthday, I have a request. Ah, what is it? A little birdie named Christine Schieffer told me that another little birdie named Leona maybe saw something spooky recently And I have yet to get the story because we've been saving it for the episode so for my birthday, please tell me

I will it it has escalated a little bit not escalated. That's not the right word, but the story continues because Today okay Yesterday we record yesterday. I feel like my brain is yes record the listeners upset Okay, so yesterday it happened before we recorded the listener episode and I was like wait till tomorrow when I have more time I need to tell you this basically Blaze walked up to me and he didn't think Leona could hear him and he said Have you been opening my window in my office like back behind the bathtub and I was like, oh What no and he means the room that all of us have known as haunted.

So the one that we can't look into at night because we know something's going to be standing in there. Oh my God. And it's like the one where I literally put my hand over my face when I walk past. And then I hold on extra tight to the railing because I'm like, someone's going to push me down. So he goes, have you been opening the window? And I'm like, yeah, right. And he goes, seriously, you haven't been. And I was like, no, is this a joke? And he goes, damn, the window keeps just opening significantly by itself. He's like, I go in there and I'm like, what the heck?

And I have to shut the window. It's not closing by itself, it's opening by itself. And Leona goes- It's rising. It's not dropping because of gravity. It's rising up and it's like an old ass wooden window. It's not like some and it's like an old-ass wooden window. It's not like, you know, some sort of mechanical thing Oh and Leona, of course, I'm like, what do you mean? The ghost has been opening your window or I said something like oh my god. What do you mean? And Leona goes oh

There's a ghost opening the window and I was like, oh boy. Here we go and she goes Daddy does he live in your office and we were like, uh go. And she goes, Daddy, does he live in your office? And we were like, uh, ha ha, I don't know. You know, let's just ignore it. And that was the night before the next morning, Leon and I are sitting on the couch. She goes, remember the ghost that opens the window? And I went, uh huh. And she goes, can we go up and look for him real quick? And I was like, Oh, okay. Of course that's's gonna be her favorite place to hang out now. She literally drags me up into that stupid room

that I hate to go into. And she waltzes into the bathroom. She gets scared halfway through and she's like, can you pick me up? And I'm like, uh-huh. So even she knows. Yeah, she's like, hello, is anybody here? And there's no ghost.

She goes, I don't see him. And the window was closed, but the screen was up. And I don't know if that was anything, but Blay said every few days it'll just open and so we're wandering around and she's like what's the ghost name and I was like I don't know and she goes maybe it's Boo Boo I don't think so and she was like yes it is and I went I can't stay on this and so then she's like, I wonder where Boo Boo is. And I'm like, please stop calling him that.

Then she waltzes over to my office and she's looking around. She's like, I don't see him in here either. And then she looks into my bathroom where my friend Nicole had said like, oh, it feels like something tucks itself away in there. She looks in that bathroom and goes, oh, maybe he hides in there. And I went, ah, and I was like,

Lena, let's go back downstairs. I really am not liking this. And she's walking out, she's looking around. There's like parts of the wall. And then today we went to the bookstore, Roebling Coffee and Books. And by the way, Leona and I got recognized three different times in two days. And I feel like now Leona thinks she's some sort of like rock star. Rock star. And she's always just like getting stickers from people

So I want to say hello to Elizabeth Sophia and Jenny. Thank you for saying hello and thank you for giving me on a stickers Have you um, do you explain like what's going on? Or does she just think they're your friends? I try to explain it but I'm like, how do I tell her that people know me from a podcast? But they also know who she is you could do the Chloe Kardashian She really like her to her kids were like, how come people stop you and like wanting a picture with you? And she's like, I think they just liked my hair. Oh That's really cute. I think they just liked what I was wearing and they just love your yellow helmet They just wanted to smile in a picture together. That's all. Oh my god. That's actually very sweet. Yeah

Yeah, well this person Jenny today comes up and goes, hi, like, and says, hey, Leona, do you like stickers? And happens to have a sheet of stickers, and they're ghosts. And she stickers to Leona, and Leona goes, oh, ghosts. There's a ghost in my daddy's office. And Jenny goes, oh, in daddy's office. Jenny was like, I hit the jackpot of like, meet and greet experiences. I know, what the fuck, Leona's telling a ghost story to her outside, yeah, in daddy's office. Jenny was like, I hit the jackpot of like meeting great experiences. I know, what the fuck?

Leona is telling a ghost story to her outside. Yeah, it was just insane. And then as we're leaving, she literally, Leona literally turns to Jenny and goes, I think he's stuck in the wall. And I'm like, what? And so anyway, now we're home and Mr. Boo Boo's stuck in the wall and he likes to go out at night and open daddy's window behind the bathtub. I don't like it one bit. Actually, I do a little bit.

I have to admit it's kind of fun because nothing scary has happened yet, but this is starting to upset me. I feel like I feel like can you imagine you're listening to a podcast and the podcasters always saying like one day when I have a kid I hope they have a spooky experience and then in that oh the Candle has been lit moment. You're you get to witness it. You get to witness the kid being like, oh actually we have a ghost I hope he's in the walls. I think he's on the walls. He's a trippiest because I'm saying they're going That was the Willy Wonka golden ticket of experiences. Congratulations Moment for poor Jenny who just happened to have ghost stickers in her purse. Oh my gosh. Wow. It was quite a moment. I was like, I swear I didn't plan this.

And also this is news to me about this ghost being stuck in the walls. I'm like, oh god. I do appreciate that Leona at least says like, oh, I don't see him in here. I'm like, good. Keep it that way. That is so good. I don't want to see him. She looked in my bathroom upstairs and was like, oh. And I'm like, I don't like the way the tone changed when she looked in there.

Full chills. And it's like, she's not even scared, which is good. But also I'm like, you should be a little scared, I think. Like, shouldn't we all be a little scared? No. Maybe start teaching her now the like, if Mr. Boo Boo comes and sees you, you have to say go away.

Like, I'm like so scared to do that because I don't want to put it in her head and have her be like, yes, it came to see me. Oh, yeah. Well, just I just to mess with me or something, because she knows full well. Anyway, so that's my ghost story. It's it's new and evolving. It started yesterday morning when she said, let's go look for the ghost. And I was like, I did film the whole thing because I was like, I don't know what's about to happen.

This is Leona's first ghost hunt. And so I filmed it. At one point, she literally looked at the... Oh, oh, oh, she's actually a comedian. What a surprise. We go into my office and she goes, I don't see the ghost in here. And she goes, uh-oh. And I said, what?

And she goes, I don't see the ghost in here. And she goes, uh-oh. And I said, what? And she goes, I found him. And she picks up like a little stuffed ghost that of course is in my office. That's actually very funny. I think I found him. And I like first out laughing. So we did have a ghost hunt, but I will probably eventually upload that somewhere.

Maybe to, I don't know, we'll see. But yeah, so that's my update. Good. My update is that my fingers have been getting eaten alive this whole time. Yummy! Hunky hanky. Okay. Oh, jeez. The way that, like, the earth shakes when Hank is trying to climb into frame. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Hank, can you...

It's really nice. Go get it! Okay. Mr. Po get it. No. Okay. Mr. Boo Boo. Oh, and then on the listener episode, Em called him Mr. Boo Boo and now I can't get that out of my head. Well, I'm sorry. Sorry about that, by the way. I honestly, every time you've ever said, I really wish that my kid was spooky and now you're getting it. And we're both immediately terrified.

Like, karma is a very silly thing. I know. And I knew what I was doing, right? Like, I knew I was walking right into this stupid little jinx I'd made for myself. Well, what happened to, like, the person who said, like, oh, Leona's not really going to be into it, but that maybe, like, a next one would be or something like that? Wasn't that something that was said? Yeah, Nicole also said, oh, Leona seems to have, because I said she's not, first of all, I said she never says anything and she said, well, just wait.

She said first, just wait. Yep. And then she said, also, she seems to have more of like a blaze mindset about things, like very just kind of like analytical and like this, that, the other, like things are explainable. And I feel like even with the way that she went upstairs and said, let's just see if he's here. Said, maybe he's in the walls, like just very like analytical matter of fact. Kind of like more investigator than a tourist. Yeah. Like I feel like at that age, I was like trying to summon spirits, you know?

Yeah. And she's like, I don't know, is he in here? I don't see him anyway. Back to Winnie the Pooh or whatever. I don't know. is he in here? I don't see him. Anyway, back to Winnie the Pooh or whatever. I don't know. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like she's just kind of like nonchalant about it. To be that lase is incredible. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what it is.

Anyway, sorry to barge in at the end of our intro, but otherwise our birthdays would pass and I would have probably forgotten all about Mr. Boo Boo. I hope and pray. I wouldn't have. I would have probably forgotten all about Mr. Boo Boo. I hope and pray. I wouldn't have I'm I'm I would have happily asked about that. Actually I'm sure this will become lore now after I've brought it up enough times that Leona will remember, Blaze will remember, and half the neighborhood will apparently remember so It's too late for me. Okay. Well good luck to you. But Jenny, I'm glad you got to witness the birth of Mr. Boo Boo Yeah, it's been an experience. Well, I don't envy you, to be honest.

Yeah, I'll keep you posted. I'm really, I feel like you should just put a camera in that room. Well, especially with that window, like what the F? Yeah. I've heard of like vibrations from like an air conditioner or something moving things slightly over time, but we've lived here five years and this has never happened. That's defying gravity. Right, and also like we haven't done anything

to change that room, so I don't know why it would be opening regularly all of a sudden. Yeah, that's very odd. He's being an actual baby and throwing his toy on the floor, so I'll get it or else I'll throw it on the table. So he's learning gravity too. Well, everyone, if you hear any sounds back there behind me, it is Hank eating carrots.

So enjoy that. That's all it's the best we could do. It's exactly what it sounds like. Thank you for humoring me and telling me the whole Leona story because I have been wondering since I know and I feel like it's been haunting me personally and I haven't been able to get it off my chest. You know, I really would like's been haunting me personally and I haven't been able to get it off my chest, you know? I really would like you to put a camera somewhere. I think that's not a bad idea actually.

Like one of those that just moves, like when it senses movement, maybe it starts, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be like, Leona, sorry, I'm dragging your baby camera out, your baby monitor out of here. I need to borrow this. Does she still need that?

Mr. Boo Boo needs to borrow it. How long do kids need that? Well, we use it because if she's in the middle of the night is like, I'm thirsty or has a bad dream or something. And because her room's kind of far from ours, so she would have to navigate some stairs to get to us and we don't wanna play that game. Fair enough.

Yeah. But yeah, last night she's like my camera's not on uh so how can I tell you if I'm hungry and I was like what the hell? Go to bed. Okay well for your birthday I wanted to look up a story where you'd be the main character so I typed in Christine and UFO. No way. And then it said oh did you mean the UFO abduction of Christina Florence and I went sure Absolutely, you know Florence is one of my names my favorite. It's not one of my names That was me actually that got abducted no No, I I love that name Florence Christina Florence, okay

Try to think of any Florence's I know, except like Mrs. Brady. Yeah. Like Aunt Flo. Oh yeah. Flo, progressive girl. That kind of ruined it for a while, yeah. Well, so the internet told me I should tell you about Christina Florence,

so I'm going to. I can't wait. Okay, so we start in 1974. Obviously our main character is Christina Florence. She is 17 and she's on a road trip with her mom and sister. They're driving, I guess to San Francisco is what one source said. But while driving through the Mojave Desert, their car overheats, classic. And their mom says, oh, the radiator's broken.

I'm gonna go get some water. You guys stay put in the car. I like how thinking of leaving my own dog in a car these days, leaving your kids in the Mojave Desert in a broken car. Literally in the desert. Yeah, I mean, really, yeah, wow, that's an alarming thought, but you know.

And I don't think they were near a gas station. Where is she going to get water? Well, and it sucks because what do you do? Do you take the kids but then it's like what if they can't walk all that distance? You know, and it's like then you can't just leave them halfway and you can't necessarily carry them. Oh my god I'm now I'm having yeah. Well, okay. I That's I do I once were said that they were By a park in which case like maybe there was like a fountain nearby or something.

Well, and then she'd have some fucking water, right? So. Yeah. So. So they might have been near a park. A park shows up later, so I don't know if the story got twisted and there's a park now when it's actually later. I'm not sure. Right. They're in the Wahabe Desert or near it. The car overheats and mom says, I'm going to go get some water. You guys stay put. While alone in this car, desert or near it, the car overheats and mom says, I'm going to go get some water. You guys stay put. While alone in this car, Christina remembers watching her sister get out of the car

and walk behind it, I guess, to like do the pouty teenager thing and like lean against the car. When she she's sitting, she's sitting in the car while her sister is leaning up against the back of it outside and she hears her sister scream leaning up against the back of it outside and she hears her sister scream, Oh my God, come out here quick. Oh shit. Okay.

By the way, I'd be like, nope, lock in the doors. Is there a rattlesnake? Like get back in the car. What are you doing? Locking the doors, you're not even welcome back in here. Yeah, yeah, sorry. You made a creative choice. Yes, you made your creative choice now laying it.

So she doesn't remember anything after that which is wild Like immediately the last thing she heard is come out here quick. So she didn't even have a chance to do anything Jesus okay, it was like last words then She wakes up and the next thing she knows her and her sister are laying on a blanket in a park like they were just napping I hate that. I hate it a lot, actually. Especially like, as if you were napping tells me that like whatever happened new to make

you to at least fake like consciousness. Yeah, yeah. Yuck. Like maybe that's what it feels disturbing, but it just feels so icky somehow. Well, it feels like the aliens have just heard about dreaming and they're like, we should make them think they were dreaming. Yeah, that's a great idea. We'll make them think it was all a dream.

Did the aliens provide the blanket? That's what I wondered too. Was it in the car? Was it like, did they create it? Did they provide it? was it one of? Their blankets even if they even if like the two of them put the blanket down like I just want to know what the logistics are but behind like the mind control of Aliens where it's like did they have to like like a sim

Like write out all the order of operations of like walks to the car unfold the blanket put it on the grass Or were they just like I think you're gonna get yourself ready like write out all of the order of operations of like, walk to the car, unfold the blanket, put it on the grass. Or were they just like, do something to get yourself ready? No, I wonder if they were just placed there. Interesting. Right, because then they didn't go there, right? They just woke up there.

Well, see, that's where the story gets confusing because if there was a park in the beginning, then I could see them just like, waking up next to the car in the park. Yeah. But if they weren't near a park, then how the fuck they get to this park. And where is this park? And where's the car?

Where's mom? Help. Where's mom is a great question. Where's that water? I'm stressed out, man. Okay. So she has this like blip of cognizance where she remembers, we woke up on this blanket. And apparently they're still alone, mom is not there, great point by the way, both of them seem to wake up at the same time,

look at each other and ask what the fuck just happened. So they both. It's like validating and horrible, cause it's like, oh, the other person is validating that it happened, but also like, oh, the other person's validating this really happened. but also like, oh, the other person's outing this really happened. If you and Zandi had a situation like this, not exactly like if you both woke up on a blanket and then realized like what the fuck just happened,

would you immediately start divulging or would you both like be too scared to even mention it? I feel like as much as you think you would want to be chatty, I feel like party would be like, if I think about it, then they're going to hear me. And I would I think there would be a lot of like Shit like the shared like shared staring at each other like panic. How do we even speak about it? Yeah, you know, it's wild. The two of you are so good at that game mind-meld. I know enough to say anything You're just maybe we'd be talking anyway. Yeah, you'd look into each other's eyes and go. Yeah. Yeah that happened

Well, so she has this moment like, OK, boom. I remember waking up on the blanket. We look at each other and go, what the hell just happened? Back to not having any. So it was just like, oops, like someone wasn't paying attention to. Oh, I see. So it was like we erase that. Eww. And went back to like losing a whole lot of time. And she woke up later and it was her mom is back all three of them are in the car they're driving the car and they're driving

it apparently as fast as possible to get out of there. Oh fuck okay so this is alarming I thought you meant they just woke up on the picnic blanket. In the end. The end but like okay so that was just a brief blip and then all of a sudden they're in the car Oh, this is not good I really feel like the guy the alien up there who was like supposed to like Make sure that like was supposed to be paying attention to the monitors like you're not remembering anything

Took a bathroom break and they remembered the blanket thing and then he went oh shit They remember and like had to reset like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you So first of all, where was mom? Where's mom? How did she get back to the car? She obviously saw something too, because she's driving. Right, what state did she find them in if she's so freaked out,

and what did she see? And that makes me wonder too, at some point before mom showed up, they are back on the blanket, seemingly no longer going to be touched or bothered. So you would think they're back on the blanket seemingly no longer going to be touched or bothered like so you would think They're lying on the blanket taking a nap Right because the memory is them waking up right and going what the fuck just happened Yeah, and then I'm in there again, which tells me that there's a second round of a guy

Yeah, our mom's involved because she's panic-driving So maybe mom shows up and goes, what the fuck? And then they're like, uh-oh, we have to, we fucked up, now we've got to like... Or maybe there's something like they, the aliens thought like, oh, we're done with them, let's let them wake up from a nap, and then decided like, oh shit,

we want to do one more experiment and like rebeam them up with mom. I don't know, but mom clearly saw something, if she's driving just as wildly away from that area. She actually at least believes something bad has happened it sounds like yeah I wonder if she was Abducted While she was walking like to get water for the radiator

Or if she like came back and witnessed something and then like was Secondarily abducted right like what if she was noted, what if she just saw them beaming up? I was gonna say, what if they just saw, what if she just saw like some weird something in the sky and then ran back to the kids and was like, yeah, ooh. Anyway, I'm asking all these questions because none of them ever spoke about it to each other. I wonder out of fear, I don't know.

I mean, I'd be like, at least one of you has to wanna talk about this, right? I was gonna say, it's kind of surprising, but maybe it's like two of them didn't want to talk about it, and one of them was like, well shit, I guess... Yeah. ...that decides it for me? I don't know. It's weird that none of them wanted to talk about it, though. Well, years later, her sister mentions it. It sounds like her sister gets into like... Maybe her sister remembers more than she...

It sounds like her sister gets into like maybe her sister remembers more than she. Maybe her sister remembers more than she does, because it sounds like she had an interest in UFOs and like you research something. Yeah. So then she finally felt safe to like go to her sister about it. Or sorry, the sister felt safe to go to Christina about it and be like, what do you remember? But Christina was like, I don't remember anything. So like basically what I just told you is all she remembers.

And the sister was like, well, there's this guy in the UFO world called Bud Hopkins and he does like hypnosis. We should go to him. Yes, yes. And by we should go to him, the sister said you should go to him. Why aren't you also attending sister?

Why are you? Wait, I thought you were the one who's interested, right? Yeah. She's already gone. Maybe, but there was no information about that. Never mind. Army is like she maybe she I don't know, because if she remembered enough that she doesn't need hypnosis,

she could have filled in the blanks for her sister. But she did she want her sister to go to cooperate. Oh, maybe, you know, like I want a third party to hear this so that like, yeah, that Bud Hopkins can validate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, baby. That's I know I don't want to muddy the waters The worst part about this case is that it was so it feels so neglected like there's obviously Meat there and nobody's ever covered it. So like yeah, I really had to go off of like Four articles and unsolved mysteries and that's like kind of all I had I love that googling my name brought you here

I know surprise so Eventually Christine is like fine. I'll go see this Bud Hopkins guy Apparently he's like the father of UFO abduction a movement of like yeah, I know I know about him because UFO abduction movement of like. Yeah, I know. I know about him because. Because of astonishing living. So sure.

The only real reason. Well, yeah, so he was the first guy to start collecting a lot of people's stories, especially about missing time. So I guess the sister must have known about him through her interests and said, go to this guy. So Christina meets up with him. Initially, she's hesitant, but she finally agrees to hypnosis. And this is like 12 years after it happened.

So she's able to go under during this hypnosis session and she gets back to the car that her and her sister are sitting in when her sister gets out and says, come here quick. Oh, God. Okay. Christina now remembers that she got out of the car She looked up at what her sister was pointing at and saw something silver floating in the sky. Oh And she didn't know why because she wasn't really sure what she was saying She just knew it was silver and like the Sun was reflecting off of it

But she doesn't really know what she saw but she remembers feeling incredible dread To a point and her sister must have felt it, too, because both of them like sprint to the car, get in the car. She remembers her sister hiding under the dashboard. Oh, shit. Wow. So she's immediately remembering like details like cow or. Yeah, her sister's cowering in fear. She's trying to start the car. Obviously, it's broken.

I love that they're going to ditch mom. They're like, I don't know where she is. She lost her chance. Yeah. And jump on the roof as we pass her. Yeah. So she remembers struggling trying to turn the car on, feeling scared, and then immediately still blacking out in the hypnosis, which makes me think that maybe that was like the aliens doing to like make sure that you could remember something. Right. But she immediately then remembers going from being in the car, trying to turn it on to being on a table surrounded by grays.

I don't know. Early when you said laying together on a blanket, I was like, oh, hooray. And now I'm like, oh, this is coming. OK, good. Great. Nope. They were laying on there now. She is laying on a table. Her sister is not in the room with her. Oh, OK. They're not even together. Oh god Yes, he's back Hank no We're gonna have to include we're gonna have to make a new theme song with thanks like scritching or something. Oh good. Yeah It'll just be me screaming actually over here like high-pitched mom a dog mom voice or whatever you said earlier

It sounds like his mom. Yeah So, let me see. Incredible Dread. Leave Mom behind. Oh yeah. So and I'm saying gray. She didn't say gray aliens, but I saw like a picture of like a sketch that she did. And I mean, it's the exact quintessential alien. Yeah. Yeah. So she's in the room without her sister. The room is spherical is the way she described it had no corners Oh, just like an infinity room and Wherever the walls were feels like your VR goggles Yeah, yeah, you know when you're like in that sphere and the walls which is interesting because it sounds like there weren't any walls but

The space surrounding her I guess were covered in dials That's what she remembers just a bunch of dials surrounding her, I guess, were covered in dials. That's what she remembers. Just a bunch of dials surrounding her. Creepy. So she remembers also what today would be considered a flat screen TV, but it didn't exist yet in 1974. But it was paper thin, a paper thin flat screen TV, and it had no wires or cords. It was just floating in the air.

Oh my dream. Oh my dream. You know I've said this a million times. There is no way they don't somewhere have the technology to make things cordless. They do. It's on planet Glorp, actually. Exactly.

We should have known Xenon and our fucking frappuccinos has had our hands on that. Can you imagine what a fucking, sorry. Can you imagine what a fucking, sorry, can you imagine what a fucking sorority sister you are, by the way, when you get abducted by aliens and you're strapped down to a table surrounded by dials and gray aliens, and then you see a flat screen TV come through

without a cord, and then she just screams under medication, my dream! My dream, oh my God, finally, I knew it, I knew it was real. I knew someday I'd get to have one for myself. They had to look around and be like, oh, she's a nutcracker. Yeah. Yeah.

So, this flat screen TV is paper thin and it seems like it's more of a camera than a flat screen TV because it's floating by itself, but it moves around her and it feels like it seems like it's more of a camera than a flat screen TV because it's floating by itself, but it moves around her and it feels like, it seems like it's taking 3D pictures of her. Oh, like scanning. Ew, oh, and that's so gross. When looking at the screen while lying down, she could see the screen and she was able to see, quote,

three dimensional shapes of her skull and body. So it feels like it was maybe like a floating X-ray machine. It's just like doing MRI. Yeah was maybe like a floating x-ray machine. Just like doing MRI. Yeah. Like just a quick x-ray. So she remembers the dial, she remembers the screen, she remembers the gray aliens and lying on a table. She also remembers them pulling on her legs.

And she didn't know why, but in hindsight she says it felt like they were putting on rubber pants on her. Oh my god. What? And the rubber pants felt like they had attachments all over them. So maybe it was like a some sort of those in my mind, it's like when you get an X-ray and they put like that big sheet on top of you, like that big heavy. Oh, that, that thing. Yeah. I feel like it was that pants. Oh, but pants. Oh, they were like,

let's protect those knees. Yeah. pants. Oh, they were like, let's protect those knees. Yeah. Well, it sounds more like it had like electrodes attached to it. Yeah, or something to connect to the dials. Like you know those rubber head, what are they called? Hazmat? Caps, those rubber caps with like wires coming out.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like strangers in style. To do like a brain scan, yeah. Yeah, I feel like that seems like sort of similar. Maybe they thought that legs were her brain. Maybe they are confused. They thought like, let's put it on her brain. That's not her brain.

Can you imagine living on a planet where your TVs don't have cords, but your pants do? But you don't know how to put on pants, yeah. It's crazy. Wow, that's powerful. And your pants are made of rubber. Talk about not breathable. Yeah, that's, you know what, cord are made of rubber talk about not breathable. Yeah, that's what that's you know, what?

Ass I know kidding me. What would I? trade corded pants Hmm for a birdless for cordless world not rubber, but maybe cord corded maybe rubber No way in hell no way in hell. Yeah, that sounds awful. Like just just galoshes that end at your waist. Yeah, I don't even wear pants in general. So rubber ones are not happening. Well at some point the aliens all leave the room. Now she's by herself in these stupid rubber pants. At least no one can see how bad her fashion is. And at some point she asks about her sister though and she goes either where's my sister is my sister okay I can't imagine the

panic and she someone I guess comes over or she hears it in her head or she hears it in the room it's not very clear but someone responds to her and says your sister is okay oh that's nice now I have Stockholm syndrome I'm like oh they're, they're so nice. Oh my gosh. Stay, just stay a little bit. Strapping electrodes to my legs. Uh, I like how they also aren't talking about her mom. I wonder if if mom got abducted at all, did they even know that they were all related? Maybe that's why they abducted her. They're like, there's a third. Yeah, I don't know. There's so many questions that I need to talk to these aliens about. Yeah. Um, so she hears that her sister's OK.

And pretty much right after that, she remembers the dials on the walls all moving or all moving by themselves, like the like spinning, turning the dials all freaking out. And before she knew it, she woke up on the blanket in the park with her sister. Jesus, I mean, this is like sci fi. Like, this is scary. This was all, like I said, figured out through Bud's hypnosis treatment. But apparently there is just so much that was never properly unpacked on the internet,

which I'm all for, like privacy, if you don't want someone to know about this. Sure. However, as someone who was trying to research it, However, as someone who was trying to research it, they, every source I found gave me a vague little throw it under the rug moment that requires such deeper research. Oh, so it's like giving you like crumbs that are... Teasing. Yeah, teasing. Yeah, that's not fair.

For example, one news segment had about a three second clip, not even, of audio from one of the hypnosis sessions. And Christina is saying, that's a quote from Christina, it was like a dummy birth. It's like fake, but the baby's real and they're real and I'm real. Why? And we don't we're not just supposed to fucking figure that out. That's just a random clip that I have no other context for. Like, I had to say one more time, it's like a yes.

Birth talk about burying the lead like, OK, you're on a table with dials, but like I have to hear this with no elaboration. Move. It's like a dummy birth. It's like fake, but the baby's real and they're real and I'm real. Well, that sounds like a real birth. Yeah, I was going to say that actually if everyone's real. It's a real birth. What the fuck is that about?

So in the same segment is like a news clipping news like a very quickly, they say that Christina told Christina and then apparently others that Bud has interviewed in the past. Christina and others have told Bud that while they were up there, they were shown babies by the aliens with the heavy suggestion that these babies were theirs. So that they- Wait, their own?

Like their own. Like Christina was shown a baby by the aliens and like, here's the baby we just created through you. Oh God, okay. Ooh, so it wasn't like, here's your future baby. It's like, here's what we're doing. Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah. So, and also like, here's your future baby. It's like, here's what we're doing. Oh, fuck. Yeah, yeah.

So, and also like where the fuck is that baby now? Is there just like a half human living in Glorp? Oh gosh, maybe. Ask Sinan, I'll text her. This information is so, like, again, as someone who's trying to research it to tell everyone the full story, it feels so neglected and understudied as a case.

But obviously adds to the theory that it's a very long run theory that most abductions are somehow involved in, like reproductive testing, because so many people have said something similar of like they I was an incubator or they were trying to use our DNA, they're trying to combine our DNA or whatever it is. Test. Yeah. Oh, so creepy. Also, that makes me think again about those rubber pants.

Like, was that just like a instead of nine months? It takes five minutes to like have a baby. We are making fun of rubber pants so we could skip a whole pregnancy. I mean, I don't know. Or like then because time and space, I'll never know anything about. It's like, were you up there for nine months having a fucking baby? Time's different. You're right. And they just put you back over here.

And the thought of that is fucking terrible. That's really scary. Imagine being blacked out and losing your memory for a whole like conception pregnancy birth. On every level, just really bad. Yeah. And also like. So it's not like, oh, now you're pregnant and you have to go home. It's like, oh, the baby's staying here. Is that what they were saying?

Oh, I guess so. Are they just all all all the quote was was showed us the babies and it was implied that they were ours. So maybe when she says like it was a dummy birth, she means like there wasn't a real birth. It was just sort of like, OK, here's a real baby. Yeah. You know, maybe like, yeah, maybe the birth just like it's it. There wasn't. It was differently there. Yeah.

Like a fake birth. Yeah. Like it didn't come out from her, maybe. But like she's I mean, she definitely doesn't remember giving birth, which is right. Right. Right. So yeah, there's something going on there. But interesting and also horrific. And also like this would be a violation. And this would be a very.

Intimate question to with a million different answers. But I wonder how she and others handle that thinking like, maybe I have a baby somewhere. Like so traumatic. And then you imagine like you say that to one person who takes it wrong or whatever. And it makes you feel, you know, I mean, that's like got to be a horrible, lonely, scary thought. Or like, what if you are on the opposite side and you're like, that was nothing but a violation,

like I want nothing to do with that baby, slash what if you're thinking, I want nothing to do with that baby, but what if they can now keep tabs on me forever? I don't want to be part of it, right, exactly. I would want to just forget it. Or the other parent, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there. No, no.

The other paranoia I'd have as I, in my hypothetical spiraling, where I'm really spiraling. As we're now really upset. It's like, what if I accidentally created the world's best hyper baby, and now you're gonna keep abducting me to do the same thing?

I was like, oh, what if I was too, what if I didn't, I was too good? What if I'm incredible, genetically? You're insane. What if I just made the perfect child? What if I made a god? What if I am God? Then you must be destroyed.

Or what if you make the worst and they want that to be studied? Like they just keep coming back to do it again. What if this was a successful procedure in whatever way they wanted? Or like they can clearly access, they've clearly accessed you before, like yeah, maybe they know where you are.

Honestly, all of that is so horrible. I mean, and this is like sexual assault we're talking about, I'm assuming. Yes, I would imagine. Or if this is what has happened, or implied at least, like some sort of very, very intimate violation. I don't know. Yeah, I couldn't tell you if it was sexual, but it's certainly an assault on your body. That's probably the best way to put it. Um... Ugh. It certainly feels sexual based on like how we operate. Yeah, right.

Maybe that's our perception, right? Um. Yeah, like so Bud Hopkins jumps in and confirms in this little segment, like, yeah, not only Christina but others and like this is a very common thing that we think reproductive testing is involved. There's one psychologist in the UFO field named Susan Fox, and she also said that she believes Christina and all these other people, because there's a quote from her that most women she speaks to who've been abducted have gynecological issues later.

Oh, what? Yeah. She said it's like a common thing. She said, oh, geez. it's like a common thing. She said, this is a quote from her, every time I meet one of these people, I say, what's your history? Like your health history. Sure. And there is always, there's almost always something like ovarian cancer at a very young age and ovarian cysts that burst and ovary was removed or some kind of strange thing with twisted fallopian tubes. Oh, I thought we were just talking like a very big, like not basic, but like yeast infections. I didn't know we were talking like literally a horrible health. Like almost as if like in my mind that feels like a like a like a radiation poisoning from

being up there or something. Yeah, some sort of something went. Or wire. Yeah, in a procedure, they like messed with my stuff. Yeah. Yeah, in a procedure they like messed with my stuff. Yeah. Oh, God. They were also, I think this was a Christina quote, jumping in about like all these women having issues that claim that they've been abducted and then they remember some sort of pregnancy or birth situation. Right.

Another quote says, a lot of us women have had false pregnancies, miscarriages, abortions and abortions where there was actually nothing found. Holy shit. Like someone they they paid for the procedure, probably to be like, get this alien out of me, maybe. And then nothing was there. Yeah. So again, we're talking about either like definitely something supernatural or like there's like a big category of an illness that we write.

Be paying attention to. And it's hard to dismiss something when it's so many people, you know. Yeah. Christina said in multiple interviews that this did really happen. And she is like the last person on Earth who would want any UFO experience at all and like despite her not wanting to believe this she knows she's not crazy but when asked about they talked to bud hopkins again they're like given your research what do you think the possibility is of extraterrestrials and this is a quote from bud that they ended on which was like a little chilling the numbers of of cases, the amount of emotional distress, the consistency of the accounts, the physical marks, the weight of the evidence.

It's so powerful that even if I wished for the luxury of disbelief, it's not possible for me anymore. Ah, yikes. Holy shit. Even if I wished for the luxury of disbelief. Wow. Yeah, that is have. Holy shit. Even if I wished for the luxury of disbelief. Wow. That is fucking terrifying, dude.

That's terrifying. He's like, I can't even pretend that I don't believe it. Oh, God. That's chilling. That's chilling. That's Christina Florence. I mean, it's like, in some ways, I like she maybe for her, she got what she wanted, but I would still have a million questions, which I'm sure is common after any hypnosis therapy of like, did I help myself or did I give myself things to spiral about? Good point. And is it like better for me worse for me? Yeah. And like health wise now is it like, oh my god, that would be so violating though, to feel like the rest of your life,

you have like, unanswered questions, A, and B, like these health issues that you can't understand. It's just horrible. Especially if like you're, let's say Christina, it didn't sound like she had any gynecological issues. Right. To know the stats of other people who have a similar experience having problems.

I'd be like, am I next? Like, when does that happen? Should I be looking out for, like should I, but I don't wanna be like hyper aware. Oh my God in heaven, this is so freaky. And then anything that happens, you'd be like, is that related to it? Yeah, oh, the paranoia for the rest of your life, yeah.

Well, thanks for that. You're welcome, happy birthday. Thank you, I have a terrible story for you too. So happy birthday to you. All right. Hey, you know what I never have said before until this year? What?

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Everybody, a fly just almost flew right into my mouth. And if you're craving your own next action packed adventure. It was an action packed adventure, all right. Audible delivers thrills of every kind on your command from electrifying suspense, like will the bug get in my mouth or not? And daring quests like the bug getting into someone's mouth despite tingling horror like the mouth the bug getting in my mouth you can unleash your adventure aside with uh with any

of that with gripping titles that keep you guessing exclusive captivating audible originals and hotly anticipated new releases yeah there are also a lot of best sellers on there. Of course, the ones that hook you from the first minute, like there was an old amathy who swallowed a fly. That's one of my favorites. But they actually do have some really awesome suspense. The Audible Original, Mad Love I have on my wish list, a fantasy romance adventure like Onyx Storm.

They have Stephen King's latest Never Flinch, which of course, course I'm going to be listening to and Freedom McFadden. So we've got all sorts of adventures and thrills at our fingertips here. Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat. New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into the world of new thrills. Visit audible.com slash drink or text drink to 500 500 that's audible.com slash drink or text drink to 500 500. All right so this is the story of the murder of Jabez Span and Welp it's just sad so. Great. And it begins August 28 2017 and we're gonna start unfortunately with a different person here. We have 31 year old

Travis Combs and in Sarasota Florida he had been shot and killed on August 28 2017. Travis lived in Newtown, which is an era, it's a historical black community in Sarasota that grew from the community of Overtown. And Overtown, which I've never heard of, or Newtown, have you? Mm-mm. I like that they just called it Newtown because they're like, this is the new one

because there's so much overspill from Overtown. That's a really good point. And yeah, I guess I live in Newport. It's like, no, not the old port, the Newport, you know. Yeah. Which is really wild. So they lived in Newtown, or Travis had lived in Newtown, and this came from this community called Overtown.

Now I have a description of Overtown here from newtownalive.org, which describes Overtown as the first neighborhood established by African-American people in Sarasota. And from Overtown grew Newtown, where according to that same website, residents depend on each other for medical and social services by establishing self-help, social and benevolent organizations.

So it's like this kind of self-sufficient community, and it's known as having a lot of mutual support among residents. And it's still that way today. So when I give you that background, just to say, when Travis Combs was shot and killed, this like was a huge shock to the community. He also had a four-year-old son

and so it just really hit the community very hard. To make matters more painful, his killers were still at large and unnamed as well. And so in the wake of this tragedy, Newtown residents held a candlelight vigil to honor Travis. And one of the attendees at the vigil was 14-year-old Jabez Spann. And I've unfortunately already

told you that this is the story of his murder yeah so he was he was their connection as he was at the vigil he was at the vigil mm-hmm exactly thank you for following that I was like I don't know if this is gonna make sense no I it's not you're telling it's my listening. I know no, I'm glad you figured it out Because that's exactly how it went. So The way they knew each other and their connection is that he's at the at the vigil but job as also was Travis's neighbor He lived in Newtown with his grandmother Lucille and his mother Tawana lived in Tampa, which I guess is pretty close by so his grandma and mother would co-parent jobez and he grew up with like two very safe and loving homes. So it was almost like they split custody, but like both of them were awesome places for him to be.

And he was very much a grandma's boy. I don't know if that's a thing, but that's what he seemingly was. Apparently his dream was to one day buy a home for his grandma because she had given him a home and it's just like this thing. Wow, that's heart wrenching. Okay. It is, yes. He also was passionate about football and he hoped to play football in college someday and of course dreamed of then going pro

and Tawana said, although every parent believes their child is a star He actually did have the skill to become an athlete and was like so driven and competitive that they actually thought he might be able to pull it off and I Love the way that she described this I didn't want to like leave in too much just description, but I love this quote His mom said that Jabez everything he did he just exploded in doing it like he just like went you know all out like full full pride and support right right right he was caring he was patient though he

was also a teacher's assistant at school and he helped other like tutor other kids and he helped you know it's of course this kid that of course is let up a room yeah I know beloved and everything his stepfather also was pretty close with him and said he had a protective spirit and it was sad to see his stepdad start crying and say like it was such a such a cool experience to be in his life, but I will always mourn not being able to watch him grow into a man. It was just like, sad on every fucking level, of course. And so now here we are, Monday, September 4th,

and the memorial vigil is being held. So Jabez leaves his grandmother's house for Travis's vigil. It was Labor Day and After the vigil he planned to go to a cookout and play basketball with his friends so while he's out he runs into his uncle and his nephew and he played with his nephew for a bit and told his uncle and his nephew hey, I'm gonna come home by around 530 this evening and You never should So his aunt Latoya Jake Jakes thought okay maybe he's out with friends,

he was going to play basketball and he's a responsible kid you know he's but he's 14 so maybe he lost track of time and forgot to call and forgot how worried we'd be. So they didn't want to panic right away um and that's also because even because they were just at this vigil for Travis's murder Newtown was where Jabez grew up, it's where he lived, he was totally secure, he knew everybody, like this wasn't a place where he felt dangerous or where his family felt he was dangerous. So they felt safe in Newtown, they never expected anything horrible to happen, they felt like they got more support from the people of Sarasota than anywhere else in the country and and they just didn't

Ever imagine leaving and so Jabez was surrounded by people that they trusted but of course hours are ticking by they're not hearing from him And his grandma's getting worried and when he doesn't come home at all And then the next morning when he doesn't show up at school, which is very much unlike him They freak the fuck out. Sure. Yeah. So Tawana is terrified, his mom. She speeds to town from Tampa

and she starts scouring Newtown for her son. She was really close with all of his friends. She knew all of his friends. And so she went straight to their houses, knocked on their doors. She spoke to their parents. She spoke to everyone she knew, she checked all of his hangouts,

and they even checked on his Facebook and saw that there had been no activity for over a day. And this was apparently very unusual. He was always on there messaging with people, and the fact that he was kind of MIA from Facebook was a huge red flag. And ooh, I have chills because this part just shocked me a little bit. It was kind of scary. So she's questioning all the neighbors. She knows somebody must have

known something or somebody must have a clue. And it was a small enough like community. Yeah. And she knew all these people. Yeah, exactly. And like a real, they all did know each other. And so late that night She finally found someone she knew had been with him that night had been with Jabez the night before he was last seen and she Said can you just tell me anything like tell me which way did he go or who did he leave with anything and? The guy says I don't have anything to do with what happened to Jabez That's like not at all, I wanted to hear, but okay.

My stomach dropped when I heard that and she of course. Panics. Yeah, floored and she says, what do you mean what happened to Jabez? Yeah. Like, what do you mean by that? And he refused to talk. So she drove straight to the police station. It sounds like she barely even got herself there because she said she somehow made it

to the police station and she just collapsed in front of the door. Duh. I mean, I... Right? And she's been out all day, like scouring the town. I'm sure not eating, drinking, you know. Well, to hear what happened to him and also he's not getting back to you, I just, at that point, you just assume that it's... Like the worst, right? I mean...

And when you're saying, Can you tell me anything about what happened? And the first sentence is like defensive of like it wasn't me to do with it It wasn't me. Yeah, it's one of his friends Yeah, it's like well then obviously you must know you must know something who then But you're you at least know what happened if you're telling us that you didn't do it. Yeah, you know something happened Yeah, so why couldn't you say that interesting? I think he probably misspoke Mm-hmm, because he probably assumed she knew or something, you know, and clearly she did not

Whoo, so that's very chilling. She goes to the police station She collapses at the door and police unofficially declared Jabez Of course a runaway and refused to issue an amber alert. Oh great. So they went back home and said great What else is new? Let's do this ourselves issue in Amber Alert. Oh, great. So they went back home and said, great. What else is new? Let's do this ourselves. And so, Jabez's family and friends gathered their search supplies and their search parties. They organized people in groups and they were able to search the neighborhood.

But not only that, they searched the woods, the swamps, the bayous around Sarasota. Yeah. I use around Sarasota. Look, everything. Yeah, and one of the things that I kind of noted as well about Tawana, it was just also heartbreaking. She said, I'm scared of snakes. My fear of snakes and spiders went out the window. I used to walk through the woods and literally say to Jabez, just tell me where you are, just tell me where you are. Well, yeah, yeah.

I was also gonna say, you're going through the swamps of Florida. Think, think of the desperation to like just go into like. She said she didn't even care anymore. She was like, it just went out the window. I didn't care. And it's like if you're walking through snakes and gators and. It's it's it's a straw. The distraught. Yeah. And the other thing I wanted to mention, which I don't know if you remember this,

but there was this one episode we we are. I I covered this story ages ago and we both were like really struck by one part that was like the dad saying that his daughter, he and his daughter were like the only ones they had and she had been killed. And he said he was so shocked because he always thought he would have known or like felt her if she left or like he said he couldn't find her and he felt like he had somehow messed up because he thought he was supposed to understand from her spiritually or whatever. And that, for some reason, like, I've chose again, that hit me so hard back then. And I feel like that somehow reminded me of that when I read, you know,

I was walking just saying, just tell me anything. Where are you? Just tell me where to go. Give me some closure, yeah. Tell me what to do. It's really, really awful. Anyway, so they're going all over. They're searching these dangerous areas.

Tawana even lied to her husband, Jabez's stepdad, about going to work because, and then he found her like out in the swamp, you know, and she had called off work, but she didn't want him to like worry or, you know, stop her. And so she would be doing this alone just for days and days. And she ventured so deep, sometimes she would literally bring a machete with her

and he would find her with a machete and a flashlight, just like chopping through. I can't imagine just being so desperate. It's horrible. After three days of the family's non-stop searching and advocating for Dripaz, the police finally issued a missing child alert on September 8th which was four days after he was last seen and the timing could not have been worse literally because guess what was hurtling their way? Hurricane Irma.

Oh my god. And that's one that I think we remember. It wasn't that long ago. I can't even imagine the horror of like, right now it's going to, wherever evidence is, it's going to get moved. Yeah. That's what I would, that would be my first thought. If we even make it through this, right?

Yeah, if we survive survive wherever his body currently is It I'll never find it. I'll never happen now There might never be closure and she was really like it was really the worst possible timing and So they had just seen the effects of Hurricane Harvey which had devastated Texas and so in Florida People were really freaked out because they had just seen Hurricane Harvey come through and now Hurricane Irma is coming right afterward.

And so they're calling this emergency state in Florida. And people are buying out the toilet paper, like panic stricken, that's all the news is about, right? So of course, this gets completely sidelined for the major news, breaking news about the hurricane. Millions fled in what became one of the largest evacuations in US history, which was part of the Irma story. Yeah.

The story of one missing teenager was completely buried by news segments about the storm, which made landfall, caused a state of emergency on September 10th. And that was two days after police finally approved the missing child report. It wasn't until September 18th, which was two weeks after he had gone missing, that they issued a second missing child alert. And again, this is in the wake of all of the hurricane stuff. And finally, Jabez's disappearance gained some attention in the

news cycle and police began actually doing some work to investigate it. They searched a neighborhood where his phone had last sent information to a cell tower, but there was nothing there. On September 26th, Sarasota police held a news conference and they said the investigation was being impeded by a lack of cooperation from Jabez's community. And it's like, fuck you, you know? Like fuck off. That really pisses me off. Like you waited four days for a child who's 14.

Like fuck off. Like when, yeah, and we've been asking this whole time and and and you're and they're supposed to suddenly trust you Yeah, like you what you didn't? You didn't really at this point don't even help like exactly. It's like again. Let's do it ourselves. It's just really horrible I mean, obviously this is complicated. They've been historically Underserved abused let's say by city government. This is not somebody they're not going to run into their open arms, you know? Yeah. And to make matters worse, Jibes' stepfather said that Newtown had recently become burdened with gang activity.

And of course, now people are getting fearful. Like they don't want the cops coming by. They don't want they have their own children to protect, you know, like they're they don't even want to get involved. It's like it's just messy. And so because of this, the police are like, well, we can't do anything. And Jobez's family believed that it was that fear of like. Getting embroiled in any of this scandal or what have you or violence.

Also, because from coming forward, I was going to say, because with all this like new gang activity in the area. Yeah, it's like you don't want to also su like new gang activity in the area, Yeah. It's like, you don't want to also sully his name of like, maybe he was in, he was a bad kid or whatever. It's like, this sounds like it came before all that, but it's gonna get muddied up with that. He was the opposite, you know? And it's like, yeah, yeah. So people were really just trying to keep themselves out of it for better for worse And people just weren't coming forward even though there was a six thousand dollar reward

So in early October the FBI added another nineteen thousand dollars to the reward to make it 25 grand But still nobody spoke up Wow, like why is anyone handcuffing that fucking guy who said I haven't done anything seriously I'm like, can we talk to him again? Like at least it handcuff him to interrogate him at least ask him a question Like how did he get away with saying that and then nobody had a follow-up question? I don't know Maybe that's crazy. I won't talk. I don't know. That's crazy. Okay. Yeah a private investigator named Joseph Randall Volunteered to helpavez's family when he

saw the story on the news and he knew about Newtown and he said, there is no way in hell this kid disappeared from Newtown without a trace. Like you're saying, there is no way that they can't find information from somebody, especially when starting the fact that- Especially when everyone's so close. Yes. And so everyone, like someone knows something if something happened and something that happened And so this PI is like a step aside. I'm coming in to figure out what's going on

So on top of that the Florida Outdoor Advertising Association Donated digital billboard space in Sarasota County to advertise the case and keep it in the public eye So that was good and through October October, suddenly Tawana was being flooded with tips because of this exposure in the media. And she pursued, of course, every single one. And if she like, of course she would. And if she didn't follow, if she wasn't able to follow a tip herself, she would send it on to Joseph Randall, the PI or one of the detectives to do that work for her. So she's like basically first line of defense, you know.

In late October, FBI agents, Sarasota police and Florida Department of Law Enforcement canvassed Sarasota residents again with no success. Jabez's family went over thousands of hours of social media posts and live streams, trying to keep track of the whereabouts of anybody who was a person of interest. I'm assuming also that one kid

who was with them the night before. So they were just keeping tabs themselves and they were desperate just for any like hint of an information that could link someone to Jabez. And they continued to form search parties. This one man named Wayne Washington organized searches every single week. And he didn't even know Jabez, but he had moved, he was just so moved by like being a father, being part of the community and seeing what had

happened that he knew he wanted to step up. And Jabez's family was grateful for the support until they realized that some of the volunteers were considered persons of interest by detectives. Oh! Oh no. And law enforcement believed that some potential suspects joined the searches to keep tabs on where the volunteer groups were looking and stuff. Yeah, so like get intel on their intel. Yeah. Like how much do you know? How can I redirect you to go over here? Which is always the creepiest thing to me.

And I feel like it happens in a lot of those crime dramas where like a person will be on the search team. Like it just, it gives me the creeps. Especially because there is that trope of like always coming back to the scene of the crime. Returning to, yeah, exactly. Oh, it gives me the creeps, man. And so that's when they were saying like, you know,

we don't think everybody here is doing this out of the goodness of their heart. And so instead, Jabeza's family decided to just start conducting private search efforts and not like having these big community ones. During one search, Joe, Jabeza's stepdad noticed a man riding back and forth on a bike. And he noticed that this guy looked like he kind of had something to say, but he wasn't sure whether to stop. So finally he kind of caught his eye.

The guy stopped. He's a 55 year old Newtown resident named Reggie or Reginald. He told the family and the PI, Joseph Randall, that Jabez had witnessed a murder days before he disappeared. Reggie says, Travis Combs was killed in a robbery gone wrong near Jabez's home. And they're like, we know he was going to the vigil that day. As the attackers escaped in a car,

apparently Reggie, this guy on the bike, saw Jabez run away shouting, oh my God, y'all shot him. Oh shit, so now he's collateral damage. Yes. So did they do a drive by or did they? Well, you're going to talk. I'll tell you. Reggie named individuals who may have been involved in Jabez's disappearance and Tawana's heart sank because when he said the names, she knew those people and she knew that they were people Jabez trusted.

And were they on the search party? They were. I don't know that they were on the search party, but they were at least in his friend group. And so it felt really, really, really bad. I would imagine they're on the search party, because it would be weird if your own friends weren't. If your friends weren't, I agree. So Tawana's heart sank.

She knew he grew up with these people and he would have felt safe with them. So he wouldn't have like maybe seen a red flag before it was too late. So Joseph, the PI and the family reported Reggie's story to the police who hoped Reggie would make an official statement that would allow them to arrest and question the suspects.

And so November 7th, the police picked up Reggie on an unrelated charge and they pressured him to make a statement about Travis Combs and how he claimed this was linked to Jabez. But Reggie refused. He insisted he had never spoken to Jabez's family. I mean, now he's scared and he does not wanna write himself out here.

So he's saying, I never spoke to them about it. It's all lies. Right. And so the police brought Tawana and her family in to speak with Reggie being like, hey, here, tell him what you told us. And she's like, you said this, that, the other. And he says, nope, I didn't.

And just refuses to talk. So. Oh my. Yeah, complicated. Police charged Reggie with accessory to murder after the fact, claiming he was impeding the investigation of Travis's death. And the PI was like, I mean, I understand why he stayed silent. Like, this is a scary thing to be ratting people out for. He gave the names of people who were involved in Chavez's

disappearance or at least that he thought were and the suspects were very violent people obviously because they're linked to these murders. So Reggie was scared and even the PI was like I sort of get it. Mm-hmm. I would, yeah. Yeah. Travis's aunt Teresa said in an interview that if Reggie did know something, he felt way too unsafe to make an official statement. He just wanted to pass the information along. So Travis's aunt visited Reggie while he was in jail

and he cried when she told him that her family did not blame him for what happened to Travis and that he had their love and support and the charges against him were ultimately dropped and he was no longer like a accessory to murder because he wasn't holding out. But for Jabez's family, they were thinking, how could Jabez have witnessed this and not told us? Like they were they were honestly devastated.

They didn't know he had witnessed that. Yeah. And they said that was obviously such a traumatic thing. I wonder if he just thought like, keep my mouth shut and hopefully no one gets hurt. That's what they assume, because he was just one of those kids that wanted out of trouble, wanted nothing to do with it. And so he also basically was too protective, you know, very protective. And, you know, he has his grandma and you of course, he wants to protect her.

He wants to buy her a house someday. You know, he's a kid. And so he's probably terrified. His aunt Latoya considered that he was trying to protect his family. So in late November, a Sarasota news source reported that investigators believed that a local church leader named Pastor Kelvin Lumpkin had information about Jabez's disappearance. Okay so investigators follow this lead they go in late September they go to see Pastor Kelvin, this is just weeks after Jabez vanished,

but Kelvin's attorney wrote a letter stating that Kelvin refused to discuss the case citing pastoral privilege, which is like, you know, basically that you can't be forced to disclose private conversations with someone seeking spiritual guidance. So like a priest, you can't force a priest to tell the police about a confession. This is like this is like, did you know that? I didn't know that. But now now I think there's some states that are making them be like court mandate or more nuances to it now.

Yeah. Mandated reporters or whatever it's called. Yeah. I think you're right. I think if it's like if they're in danger in in harm and present harm or. But it's still shocking to me. It is. Isn't it crazy? It's especially as someone who is agnostic atheist or whatever. But it's still shocking to me. It is, isn't it crazy? It's especially as someone who is agnostic atheist or whatever. It's like just because you just walk into a confessional and say, like, I did this, that and the other and you can't do anything about it. But I'm like not to be offensive to anyone who has different views than me.

But it is it is similar of like, well, I don't I get to get away with it because I believe in Santa Claus. It's like, yeah, because it's like it just doesn't't track unless like Santa Claus would want you to be honest, babe Yeah, if you live in this structure, it makes sense. But like from an outside perspective, it's like wait what you can just go in there and go Yeah, it's just like very jarring that that is like a Legal loop. I mean think about this shit. They probably have to hear too Like I mean, I don't know when I was 10. I killed a puppy I don't know

I'm like I'm trying to think of like horrible things that you wouldn't need to report to the police, but that are like still traumatic to have to hear. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That must be really weird to be in that position. But anyway, so pastoral privilege, they cite pastoral privilege, they say, okay, well, you know, you can't force him to reveal what what he knows. Like you were just saying, some professional positions are designated mandatory reporters. And so people such as teachers, doctors, therapists are legally obligated to report alleged abuse and exploitation to law enforcement or child welfare services. But just like you said, in some states, they get an exception.

Because they're pastors. Beyond me. Yeah, it's wild. So like, that's shouldn't you be... Also taxing the church too. Like just so you know. Right. It's just a lawless land over there.

It's a lawless land, but it's like, well, it's a very lawful land in their own special laws. The irony. Yeah. Yeah. Where their laws count, I guess. Yeah, yeah. I'm speaking strictly here about Catholic Catholicism and from my own experience. I'm not I'm not harsh on anyone else's vibe here. But so in 2022, the Associated Press reported that 33 U.S. states had laws exempting clergy from mandatory reporting laws.

Thirty three, even in cases, get this, of exploitation and sexual abuse of children. So you can literally go in there to a priest say, I am sexually abusing a child and they don't have to tell. Yeah, I mean that's just another reason why pedophile is rampant in those types of spaces. Just one of the many reasons. It's just a hush hush type of situation, you know? That's just... it's like, of course, it's maybe it wasn't built for that, but like, of course, it's gonna slip through the cracks if those safety measures are not in place.

So Florida law defines clergy members as a priest, rabbi, practitioner of Christian science, or minister of any religious organization or denomination, usually referred to as a church or an individual reasonably believed to so be by the person consulting him or her. So it also, by the way, offers a lot of room for for. Wiggle room, I don't know the right word for. Kind of applause to lawyers, because like that alone. What a doozy. I know applause to lawyers because like that alone

I know like I feel like that gave me 18 loopholes like I feel like I could be like I'm a religious I'm a religious leader because someone thought I was you know yeah like I It's just baffling so anyway Kelvin and his lawyer cite this law to protect his silence and Kelvin claimed right to refuse to speak on the case while Reggie was arrested and charged with accessory to murder for claiming the same Right, so it's just kind of like an icky kind of parallel like one refuses to talk So he goes to jail for being an accessory to murder one refuses to talk and it's because he's a holy counselor You know that fun and he gets to go home tonight. It's just wha- waffling. It's what it's a holy counselor, you know that fun and he gets to go home tonight. It's just waft waffling. It's what it's no It is

I'm waffling. Okay So in November, I love this like Sarasota news They're getting their hands on some like the investigators are like, oh, okay. The news said it. Let's go talk to this guy I mean it's wild so in November a Sarasota news source publishes the letter written by Kelvin's attorney or legal representation Oh, wow, because it was public record. So the Sarasota news source published it and You know, it already troubled investigators that and job as his family Of course that one community leader might be withholding information, but to make matters worse that one community leader might be withholding information, but to make matters worse, Kelvin's attorney was this woman named Shelly Freeland-Eddie, and she was the sitting mayor of Sarasota.

What? Corruption is afoot sometimes, Christine. Right? Oh, oh. Pillars of the fucking community is what these two are. To piece a mayor that feels like like a like a comic book where I literally was about to say it feels like a Superman thing where it's like, well, that's a little too on the nose. You know? Yeah. But like the fact that it was like this this hush hush thing and then it was made public record and they're like, wait, your lawyer's the mayor. And she wrote a letter on your behalf to say he doesn't have to talk about the murder of Jabez.

Like that's, you should hear his mom talk about it. It's horrible. She's like, these people have kids and they chose their jobs and their job security over. And their power. And their power over that love of being a parent and and helping me find my son. And this is still in Newtown, right? This is like in a town full of people who are like claiming to be like a wonderful community of people. So she's yeah, she's the mayor of Sarasota and yeah, is a community in in Sarasota. But yeah, so it's like, OK, so you're, you're going to protect yourself and not, she just,

to one, felt like completely betrayed basically, like as you can imagine. And outraged, she said in an interview that the betrayal felt compounded because she considered Kelvin and Shelley, this probably kind of answer your question, not only leaders of Sarasota, but of the black community, because they're both black. And she felt like even if you're not necessarily living with us in Newtown, like I expected more from you to represent me and my family when you know how hard it is. And like, it just makes it extra icky. Like she felt so disappointed and betrayed by them.

And yeah, this story for some reason gives me chills like every five minutes. It's like just hard. So Jabez's family continued to appear in the media to keep the case alive. They publicly celebrated Jabez's 15th birthday and Lucille, his grandma, told interviewers on camera that of course he's not a run away and if he was capable of calling me or coming home he'd have been here She's like there's no way in hell. He's a runaway Hmm in December the reward for information which led to Jabez was raised to

$50,000 and still nobody came forward. What the hell is going on? Isn't that crazy? That's Bananas at that point. I would start doubting that anybody knew me. I'd be like, maybe no one knows anything. I like, OK, well, I'm so happy you just said that seriously, because my next sentence is private investigator Joseph. Wait, invest the private investigator. Joseph decided to enlist a psychic for help because he had no idea what the fuck to do. Yeah, I would I would be at a loss at that point.

Be like, nobody wants 50 grand like it. Nobody. It's not worth 50 grand. Whatever information you have. Yeah I would start losing my marbles. Yeah yeah and he was like I guess I'll just hire a psychic and he tried that and that didn't seem to work and they're just kind of hitting kind of the last dead ends that they can see. And let's fast forward the afternoon of February 19th 2019 and so this is a year and a half since Jabez disappeared. Somebody discovered skeletal human remains while they were repairing a cow pasture fence in rural Manatee County, Florida.

OK, so so question the OK, so his body was found like on this cow pasture or a body was found on this cow pasture. But this is. I don't know if this is even relevant anymore. I'm assuming this is post hurricane, so was the body found where it originally was or is this like now swept away somewhere else? Or does it matter to find out? OK, actually, for once.

Once I have an answer. No, this is certainly this is a year and a half after he disappeared. So this would have and the hurricane happened within days of him disappearing. So this would have been a lot later So Joe said that waiting for confirmation that the remains belonged to Jabez was this bittersweet situation He said is it that you want it to be him so you can have closure or is it this can't be him? We want to bring him home the way he left? Oh, that's chilling. I know.

In the end, they used dental records and were able to confirm that it was indeed Jabez, and chillingly again, there was a rope found with his remains, as if he had been bound and held captive before being murdered and abandoned. Do we think that's true or is that leading and it was like just like leftover debris from a hurricane?

No. For being in a camp asher. No, he had been detained in some way by this rope. Oh my god. And the PI believes that Jabez was held somewhere for days before his death. Um, and that was of course, the four days before the police finally agreed to issue an alert or start searching themselves. So months after the discovery, Jabez's family received his remains, um,

amounted to bones, according to Joe, bones in a container, the size of a shoe box is what his stepdad said. Whoa. Tawana wanted to make the public aware of what her son had suffered and what she was enduring as a mother. And so she was really, really moved to action by the kind of parallel legacy of Mamie Till Mobley, who was the mother of 14-year-old Emmett Till, who was kidnapped in Lynch in 1955 after being falsely accused of whistling

at a white woman named Carolyn Bryant in Mississippi. And I had known this, but it's still disturbing and tragic every time, of course, we talk about it, but Mamie To make it point to make a statement had held out and casket funeral for Emmett Till made people look. Yep and allowed photos to be published Which is why I think So many of us remember this story from early on because it's so shocking when you first learn it

Yeah, and it doesn't stop being shocking, you know She wanted people to know like what what truly happened to him? Yeah, exactly and so she allowed the not only an open casket funeral for people to look at her son and what happened to him but also To take photos and publish them so that other people could see And so she wanted to make the world look at what these people with the violence of racism what these people had done to her son. And everyone involved in Emmett's death was acquitted in court. So if you're wondering what the spoiler alert is there. But so Tawana felt suddenly this real kinship, understandably. And so she actually posted photos of Jebez's remains

in that box, those bones, alongside a photo of Emmett Till. And she invoked the history of violence against black children like Emmett, her own son, and of course the lack of justice and the lack of follow-up and follow-through. And she said no parent should have to endure her experience. She wanted to give her son's life a legacy,

so she created the Jebez Span Foundation, which works to provide emotional, financial, and logistical support to families of missing persons and homicide victims, to organize searches, to advocate for unsolved cases in the media, and to seek justice and closure in missing and murder cases. Which is just like, on top of all of this and and the trauma and like people would understand if you just laid down for the

rest of your life yep and here you are like making an entire organization to help other families it's just it never fails to blow my mind to want to publish a book titled weirdo colon dealing with PTSD after losing a child to murder. Damn. Wow. It was titled that because she felt the trauma she endured was very alienating and sort of set her apart from other people. And she also focused her advocacy efforts on education and economic literacy. She sought to intervene in poverty and other social issues and identified as she, she identified these social issues in particular, um, poverty, that

kind of thing as major contributors to cycles of incarceration. So she's going, you know, straight to the source, um, trying to help her community. And she really wanted to empower other people in Newtown to do so as well. And so the oral histories of generations of Newtown residents have been preserved in interviews, and they're actually available on newtownalive.org. And I think that's super cool. The community is doing all of these initiatives and kind of banding together again. For example, successful community initiatives have been launched to bring museums, art centers, a cultural center, tourism, and more education opportunities to Newtown and its residents.

And so, you know, his community flourishes after, after his passing. Yeah. So, you know, it's like there's the, I guess. I guess, I'm sure the storm, right? I don't know the rainbow. I don't know what it would be, but I mean, it's also the work of his mom doing, you know, how to help him to promote know his mom is empathy and community. So Joe said, I just miss the greatness that I had seen in this young man.

And he misses his son having a brother which I also found pretty poignant and heartbreaking Unfortunately, the investigation has not been solved but it is still ongoing Joseph Randall said what's gonna have to happen in this case is someone getting a conscience and it sounds like somebody did because they already confessed to a pastor, and now we need the pastor to grow fucking conscience, or the mayor, right? Like, that's a big ask, though, so... Until someone comes forward in the case... Which sucks, too, because it's like,

do they really feel like they repented by telling that one pastor? Like, do you think that they sincerely, like, feel like they're a better person? And does he just walk around now? Just feel like, oh, better person? I just think it's just walk around now. Just feel like, oh, I'm free of this burden, I can go to heaven. Like, no, that's not how that works. It can't be how it works.

It can't be how it works. That's why I'm atheist agnostic. Exactly. If that's how it works, I don't want to go to heaven, actually. Exactly. I'll stay with you in hell. Thank you. See you in hell. Thank you.

You're so welcome. I'll at least you. You in hell. Thank you. Um, you're so welcome I'll at least visit You're right Okay, maybe I'll write Maybe I'll SMS So essentially we're waiting for anybody to because like you said somebody knows something and Particularly in such a tight-knit community somebody fucking knows something so I just find this to be one of those where hopefully with time loose lips sink ships you know I mean that's what you have to hope for which sucks because it's

the waiting game but you can usually count on people to slip at some point so I don't know I'm hoping I'm hoping they get some closure. Until someone comes forward the people seeking justice for Jabez believe that the community is still in danger even though it's flourishing culturally. Investigators will not confirm any alleged official link between his death and the death of Travis Combs, the murder of Travis Combs, but those close to Jabez remain convinced that they're connected in some way because Travis had been killed right outside Jabez's home

and then with the story, Reggie's story about him having witnessed it and it just felt too uncanny to not be connected somehow. And then him going to the vigil and disappearing that night. There's not even like a doubt. No, I find that to be a very obvious connection. Just based on the family alone being so sure of it. In a 2017 interview regarding her nephew, Travis Combs, Teresa spoke fondly of her nephew and

said that although she didn't want violent retaliation, she wanted Travis's killers to know what they took away not only from his family but the community. And Tawana basically echoes the same. She said in an interview that the people who killed Jabez crossed the wrong family and they're going to find that out. And I'm hoping and I don't doubt it Tawana. I really don't. She's got a banner.

I hope she's right. I think she's going to fucking blow this case wide open. What did she say about her son that he exploded in everything he did? Oh, I love that Including the truth. Yeah. Yeah well Happy birthday to me. That was yeah. Yeah good bad story per usual Christine. Thanks Is there What else is next? I think it's just our birthday week.

Is there anything else we need to promote? You want to give your little Beach 2 Sandy shout out? Oh, sure. Yeah. If anybody is interested, my other podcast with my brother, Beach 2 Sandy Water Touette is doing a 17 city tour. I don't know what I'm thinking. 17 city tour. I think I went to a fugue state when I agreed to that.

But it is going to be a really fun time and we read one star reviews of your town basically. So you know what Omaha you better watch out. Is there a town that is I don't know if you can if this like ruins the vibe of the show so maybe you know know No, no, tell me but is there a city that you think will have a lot of Material to work with I'm thinking Plano is gonna be pretty fucking weird because like we don't know why We're just like playing outside. You're just you're gonna be kind of like a dark horse. I think but honestly every town has kind of like a dark horse, I think. But honestly, every town has. I would be their own like brand of cuckoo on.

I would be scared to have to cover Florida. Like, there's just too much. Well, that's our first show. So we're doing Tampa and I forget the other one. Sorry, Florida. Orlando. It's maybe or I don't remember. We're my brother's clearly planning to travel this time around but yeah so if you want to check that out it would be really fun to

see y'all hg sandy comm I don't know where it's on there somewhere but yeah other than that I think we don't have much else to promo except you can come to yappy Hour, patreon.com slash at www. Or is it in that way? I don't know, go to our Patreon. Give it a Google. Give it a whirl, give it a Google. Thank you everyone for enduring my dog. When he gets dog park access again,

hopefully things will be better. When he has backyard access, things will be better. When Allison gets back, he will be better. But unfortunately, the triple threat hit us all today. So happy birthday to me. This is what it's like to be a dog parent, I guess. So thank guy for everyone. See you over at Yappy hour, everyone.

See you there. And that's why we drink.