And That's Why We Drink - E438 The Mighty S.S. Leona and an Unexpected Pasta Experience

Episode Date: June 29, 2025

Episode 438 is here? Word, bird. This week Em takes us to Oregon for an undercut indie cryptid favorite, Colossal Claude aka the Columbia Bar Sea Serpent. Then Christine brings us back to Indiana to cover Part 2 of the Delphi Murders case. And stay on the lookout for our series of spooky cryptid kid stories… and that’s why we drink! Photo Links:⁠Colossal Claude⁠ Want to hear more from us? Subscribe to our bonus Yappy Hours on Patreon or Apple Podcasts! ⁠patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast⁠___________________For 50% off your order, head to ⁠DailyLook.com⁠ and use code DRINK. Go to ⁠Quince.com/drink⁠ for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to ⁠RocketMoney.com/drink⁠ today. Grab an Angry Orchard Cider today. Don’t Get Angry. Get Orchard. Please Drink Responsibly Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Rogers Stadium with Go Transit. Thanks to Go Transit's special online e-ticket fairs, a $10 one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel on any weekend day or holiday, anywhere along the Go network. And the weekday group passes offer the same weekday travel flexibility across the network, starting at $30 for two people and up to $60 for a group of five. Buy your online Go Pass ahead of the show at Gotransit.com slash tickets. This episode is brought to you by Dzone. For the first time ever, the 32 best soccer clubs from across the world are coming together to decide who the undisputed champions of the world are in the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best

players, Messi, Holland, Kane, and more are all taking part. And you can watch every match for free on Dazon, starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at dazon.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N dot com slash FIFA. Word. Word bird. I remember when you say word bird. I texted it to someone recently and I went, that's old. I kind of miss that word bird really got me back in the day. Thank you. Not many people agreed with you, which is why I sucked.

I don't think though, I don't know that that's true. I think we just didn't say anything and I regret not saying anything. Cause I don't think I ever told you, like it really did a number on me in the best way. And I don't think I ever told you till now. I never felt empowered or acknowledged until this moment. I should have told you word bird really is a killer sentence like a killer phrase. It's good word bird

I don't know why that surprised me, but it did Wow, I walked right in that one. Hello everyone. Welcome to and that's why we drink the podcast where we tell scary stories I am I'm Schultz. I truly forgot my name for a second. I was like, what's coming next out of my mouth? I did write it in the script for you. Just in case you forget. I didn't read it.

Obviously. How's everyone doing? Christine, you're the only one who can really answer. So how's everyone doing? Bad? Real bad. I mean, fine. I mean, fine.

Good, fine, fine. But not good, you know? I get it. We all get it. It's like, I mean fine good fine fine, but not good. You know mm-hmm. I get it We all get it. It's like I'm doing the best I can It's like my body thinks it's it's fighting against itself. It's raging against the mission the wrong machine It's raging against its own machine, and I'm like please stop you don't need to kill your kill your own healthy Healthy cells you can stop doing that. And it's not really listening. Healthy is in quotes. Healthy, quote unquote, exactly.

Like you need to quit doing that, because here's the thing, I'm really kind of over it. I got a lot to do. I've got to rage against the actual machine, right? We all got to do that. Ain't that the truth? We also got to do this podcast

and talk about horrible things. And if I just have like ulcers in my throat, I don't have time for that. You know what I'm saying? And your throat, Christine? Well, yeah, because it's like your whole digestive tract. And so it just like, yeah, it's gross. I forget your throat is your digestive tract. I know. And canker sores in your mouth.

And then your eyes get like these horrible. It's those are your digestive tract Christine No, that's just inflammation. That's just everything else. That's just like autoimmune shit. But yeah, so it's it's annoying But you know what? It's okay. We're thriving. I'm going on tour this week. That's why I drink I already prepared that reason I'm going on tour again. Like it was if we didn't just fucking do that Well, we haven't been to Florida in a million years. So I see you Yeah, so we're going to Orlando Tampa. I'm very excited and reading that. Well we haven't been to Florida in a million years so at least you get to go to a new spot. Yeah so we're going to Orlando Tampa. I'm very excited and reading one-star reviews of these places is like so unhinged. I have to sometimes like remember to bring myself back to a semi-state

of reality because like reading reviews of the Tampa Zoo is like what world have I stumbled into? You know? Is Andrew your tour guy? Mm-hmm. I'm kind of pissed at him, though. Like, he wouldn't give you Florida last, like, as the big hurrah. It feels like it needs to be the big finale. You're right.

I feel like we're starting at a high, because, like, you're going to do, like, literal fucking Florida. Florida man, yeah. And then you're going to go to, like, I don't know. Omaha? Omaha. Yeah, it's like,, I guess Omaha like you could complain about that There's nothing to do but in Florida I didn't say that Omaha and did and by the prepared to Florida. I'm sorry. There is there's something to do and it's called beach to Sandy live

It's called Eden Omaha steak and see Christine. Come see me. I wanna say, I am very, I will say we did request specially Omaha and Plano. So those are not even like random. My brother was like, I wanna go to those places. And I was like, sure. So those are not Andrew credit. Andrew doesn't get credit for that. But he should, you're right.

Florida feels like a big, a high bar to start with, but maybe that's what we need to get us into the- Take it off, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so- Why did he suggest, did he have a lot of things he wants to, he's had notes set aside for them for a long time? He's just, nope, he's just kinda like you,

he's like, I just wanna go to Omaha. I so badly wanna go to Omaha. When did I go last time? But that's what I'm saying, no, we've never been. No, remember I was gonna go after one of our shows and then after our shows. That's right Yeah, we had like that weird. I think we had to drive something happened. Yeah. Well, anyway, um, we're there's still a chance Okay people Omaha's gonna be the finale of the century. It's gonna be a Wambam. Thank you, ma'am. That's right. I'm gonna work real hard on those reviews to make sure they reach the same bar as Florida.

So, you know, it's going to be a wild ride. But other than that, you know, I'm just chilling. How are you doing? Fine. I wish I had something to update you on. I. Nothing's really going on over here. I did a big cleaning yesterday, which it's so annoying when you get really productive about something because you were getting distracted from doing the thing

you needed to be productive about. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because part of me feels so accomplished and part of me is like, fuck, I didn't do that thing I needed to do. And it was going to take all day routes completely and doesn't like puts up a guardrail and they're like, you can't go back to the other thing. Like I, I have been trying to downsize myself because now that we're back from tour, I'm seeing just how many t-shirts I bought and holy shit, Christine.

Like it's like actually, I've never actually been this self embarrassed about. No, don't be embarrassed. It's like you want to celebrate each town and we'll go to all these small businesses. Like you want to support small businesses. You want to like remember the trip. I mean, it's not don't be embarrassed.

But yeah, I also I'm lucky that I have just this giant space up here where no one really enters that I can just shove all the stuff that I buy on tour, which one day I will. Isn't great. One day. Well, I mean, honestly, at this point, I feel like when we get all the construction done, I'm going to have we're just building a closet for me is what it feels like. I was about to say you're building a two story walk in closet. That's all. Yeah. Like, well, and Allison, she said it on her. Someone said it.

Someone was like, Oh, M, do you collect anything? One of our friends and Allison, Allison, without even missing a beat and not even trying to joke, she was like, Oh, well, you have a really great t-shirt collection. I went, you do, though. And I went, I don't collect shirts. And she went, girl, yeah, you do. Like, what are you talking about? You totally do because you have even said,

you literally have said the words that you collect shirts from like Ivy league universe. Like you literally collect. Yeah, well that's supposed to be like eight shirts. I thought that was an easy one. Right, we all knew that was supposed to be eight shirts. Don't worry, we were on the same page. It's just like, then your brain did the guardrail thing

and you were like, oh, okay, I'll expand my collection, which is great. I did the same, so I feel the pain. But yeah, I would argue, you know, but also that's a good thing because it means you're not just hoarding, you're like curating. See, but now I've done the thing

where I'm girl mapping myself into not I'm not the person to talk to you because I will keep encouraging this behavior Anyway, our we have had one room one room. There's one room in this house We have one room not had What will eventually I think I've mentioned this before for sure that we're creating a speakeasy, like a secret passageway room. And that room for now has been like the biggest like clusterfuck of chaos. Like there's there was no floor. It was just it wasn't even just like clothes on the floor. It was like glass, like the glasses on the floor and like plates on the floor.

And like it's like everything gets relegated. Everything was getting shoved in there and like everything during tour. All the tour suitcases were going in there and it was just towels, like it was everything because Hank chews on everything when you're not looking. Oh, right. So it just became the room where you throw everything and it was disgusting.

That is officially actually clean for the first time. Oh good, that's big. But that's because I was avoiding the downsizing my shirts. So anyway, that's why I drink. I just, I'm feeling a little- Sometimes you need a clear space before you continue onto a more extensive cleaning project. OK, thank you.

Yes, I I agree. At some point, I. I'll get it together, I just don't know when and also like I just think about all the other stuff that we still have in boxes, the garage. I was thinking, oh, I'm going to clean the garage. It's literally like 100 degrees here in an unair conditioned garage. I was like, I'm not so much you can do. I don't.

I respect myself is actually the thing. So anyway, that's why I drink. What do you drink? Anything fun? Oh, it's a little too fun. And I feel a little guilty for sharing this because I did just talk about how my body's falling apart. But I kind of just don't give a shit anymore. So I'm drinking this hard iced tea.

Oh, I love Arizona. It's just really good. It's like a low alcohol level. I just sip on it in the afternoon if I'm recording with you. Cause it's more fun if to sip on something, you know? Well, funny you mentioned that because I, it's in the fridge now and if I get up the whole thing, but next time we record, I just at the store

bought blueberry juice and it looks, it's literally in a wine bottle and like sealed and everything and I was like- Question, Air 1? Girl, okay. Sorry, we just recorded that other one. I had to say it. I remember for once what we talked about last week.

Thank you, I got it on the same trip. I was like, well, look at this. And it looks like it's a blue wine bottle. It looks cool. That's like where I would, that is like the kind of thing that I can understand the excitement about Erwan's like, oh my gosh, where on earth would you find this otherwise?

Yeah. You know, like blueberry juice in a beautiful bottle, like why not? I'm gonna open it on camera next time we're recording because it's literally like the heat sealed kind of like, it looks like a bottle of wine. What if when I inevitably have to pee in the intermission, oh yeah, you go get it? I'll take a sip before your story.

That's right, cause I'm doing a part two and you're gonna need it. Okay, perfect, great. Okay, well my story is short today. This was recommended to me by someone who recognized me on the street. Oh, oh. In Airwan, can you imagine?

No, that would be so humiliating. I don't think anybody who shops at Air One regularly would know who the hell we are. No, I don't think so either. That's why I like going there. Just to get away from the fame of it all. To get away from the riff raff. The hullabaloo, oh my God.

No, this person actually- Meanwhile, there's a Publix now near me. And I'm like- Oh, you're so lucky. Dude, they opened a Publix like 20 minutes from me. And Leona and I went for the first time and because it's brand new too, everything's like very, and it's in Kentucky, so it's like less populated than the Cincinnati area.

And so you kind of drive down there, but like they had these little shopping carts with like the special little cars and Leona was like leaping her way through. I mean, it's like game changing. There's a reason everyone loves Publix. You have, you've had one of their subs. Oh yeah, I mean, I did back when, when I would,

when I would visit somebody in Florida that, I no longer really visit. Okay, cool. Why did I say it like that? I'm sorry, I'm gonna have one in Florida this week. Let's put it that way. Okay, great. They're good, they're fucking good.

And they make a vegan one that my brother loves too. They must be doing something right now because Virginia just got one of their, like Fredericksburg got a Publix. And Buc-Ease, remember when you told me to check Leona's shirt for the, because we have a Kentucky Buc-Ease now? Now that's fun.

Did I send you a picture? I meant to send you a picture. The back of her shirt, she has like that tour shirt of Buc-Ease and the last one is the Virginia one. It was just 2025 it said and Kentucky was a few up there and I was surprised because like that feels brand new but they've been doing a bunch and they're opening one in Dayton Ohio near me I don't know. If they even have a shirt in your area that says Kentucky's Buc-Ees they're missing out. I own them don't you worry. Wait last thing about a PubSub, first of all,

that's one of the shirts I collected while we were traveling. Wait, really? I guess, because I went to Florida at some point. They make a shirt. I was in Florida and I went to a tchotchke shop and it said something. Oh, I thought it was like from the Publix.

I was like, that's hilarious. If they do, I'll own it eventually, don't worry. Yeah. There's just like a mustard stain on it. That would be funny. No, I visited someone on our travels, probably my grandma. Oh, yeah, because what I was going to say is... What if it was a person I don't talk to anymore?

I would not be visiting that person. That would be crazy. What if it was your grandma that I don't talk to anymore? I would understand. Remember when we talked about your grandma and then she commented on Instagram and we got in trouble? She thought that we were laughing. About her demise.

We weren't even talking about, we were talking about your other grandma. I was talking about my other grandma who is- Who's dead. Who's dead. And I said, Christine laughed when I said something about my dead grandma. Her dead grandma and then Em's real alive grandma

was like, how dare you? And we were like, it's not you, you're alive. We weren't talking about you. We weren't. Anyway, no. And Megan was like, it's not you, you're alive. We weren't talking about you. We weren't. Anyway, no. And Megan was like, hi, Em's grandma wrote in and is pretty mad. I was like, that's an Em problem.

I don't know what to tell you. No, I don't know if I was visiting. I must have not been near my grandma because I don't know the situation. I was in Florida, I was near somewhere with the Publix. So we were somewhere while we were traveling and I found a Publix. And, um, I stayed an extra day,

and I intentionally didn't let myself leave the hotel. And I had, I got an Uber, went to Publix, got myself a bunch of, like, pool snacks, and then I just sat by the pool and, like, had a pool day, like I was a little kid, and I went swimming, and then halfway through, I ate a Pub Sub, and then I went swimming again, and then I fell asleep in the sun

and then I got an incredible sunburn. That is, I was gonna say, as long as you got an incredible sunburn or you went into the water too quickly and got a tummy ache, that is the way you know it was like an official kid type school day. So nice, it was actually very lovely. Anyway, who wants to hear her story?

I guess I do. So I used to think like, oh, I'm not a fashionable person ever, but I feel like lately that I've had the tools necessary. I've become a more fashionable person. Like when Emma and Eva suddenly see me on tour, they're like, okay. And I'm like, what? And they're like, where did you get that? And I'm like, obviously daily look, where else would I have gotten it? They put a whole wardrobe for me together.

And now I'm going on stage looking like, oh, this, this whole thing, I did this myself. A plus. Thank you. You're welcome. This podcast is sponsored by Daily Look. It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women.

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And sent me this box and I kept everything a single thing because I was like, I never would have picked this out at the store, but it actually looks awesome. So thank you. A shout out to S Bronza you're really nailing it. Daily Look has sizes for almost everybody which is also great they have from extra small to 3x 0 to 24. So if you're interested it is time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to daily look.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50% off your first order. Once again that's daily look.com for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code

drink so they know that we sent you one last time. It's dailylook.com and promo code drink. Christine, I've been going through my closet recently. I'm kind of downsizing, kind of getting new pieces. And my problem is that I really there's so many places I want to buy clothes, but I don't want to spend that much money while also, you know what I mean? It's like I don't. You know why, but I don't wanna spend that much money while also, you know what I mean? So- I don't, you know why?

Cause I don't have that problem. Cause I use coins, okay? How many times do I have to tell you? It's actually affordable. They use ethical manufacturing. It's a top artisans. And then they cut out the middle man. So they give you this luxury without that markup.

And I'm telling you, Em, I went on this lake trip and it was like, I was going on a lake trip as like a fashionable like normally I would have just packed like the like oversized whatever. I bought these linen okay they are 100% european linen wide leg pants and I thought like I don't know that somehow these have become like these viral things on their website and people say no matter what you like, look like body shape, these are really awesome and flattering and comfy. I bought them, I immediately bought them in two more colors. They are the best for summer, they're linen,

they look fancy, they don't get like, you know, that wrinkly, like you can wear linen like that, very flowy. Everything from Quince's price 50 to 80% less than what you would find at similar brands, so. And they tell you, right, they're on the site, which is awesome. Give your summer closet an upgrade with Quince.

Go to quince.com slash drink for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash drink to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash drink. Oh right, I got recognized. So that's how we got to this story. Her name was Jenny, I think. She actually recognized me while I had

the most insane amount of pasta in my mouth. And it was very embarrassing because she had to then stand there and wait for me to chew. I hate when that happens. But she knows she- The only more embarrassing thing is being the person who's waiting for the other person

because you're like, oops, I did bad timing. So don't worry. Jenny or Janie anyway she oh my god you don't even know her name I couldn't hear I was chewing but she okay fair but she came over and she was like I'm sorry are you do you have a podcast and then I had to do this just like rigatoni falling yeah like I was like you couldn't have waited till I swallowed and then came on over But okay Anyway, it was a very special experience for both of us and she said and she said she was from Oregon and always wanted me

to cover this cryptid so to redeem myself from the pasta experience and the forgetting the name and not knowing your name here is Hopefully the cryptid you suggested maybe I don't remember that either. Oh my God, imagine. Okay. Oh my God, Janie, Jonie, Jenny, Pep. Post this on Reddit and be like, wow. They're so out of touch.

If you write in and your name's like, Patricia, I'm gonna feel so bad. Oh my God. Okay, let me finish this chair because I've been holding it for a long time. Look at, now look, Joni, Janie, Jenny, it happens to me too. Sometimes I'm just sitting here having a conversation

and it starts chewing. And it's like, oh really? Now I gotta sit here and wait for you to finish chewing? This is honestly, don't worry. It's not a you problem, it's an em problem. It is, okay, first of all, that cherry, I touched it and it was the exact right, and I was like, I can't sit here for an hour and not eat this.

So you got it. You got it. I needed to get out of my system. So this is colossal Claude into your system. Colossal Claude, you say. Hello. Hello, says Claude. I say who a wuga. That's beautiful. Claude says nothing back.

He actually turned around and walked away. Oh, fuck, that always happens. So he is encrypted in Oregon's Columbia River. He's apparently also known as the Columbia Bar Sea Serpent. I like the other one better. Me too. Colossal Claude. Hello. I'm sure he prefers bar sea serpents, but perhaps, perhaps. Well, so this is when I say it's a quick story,

there's only like three sightings of this guy. But apparently he is a what's it like an undercut indie favorite of the cryptids. Oh, I love that. OK, when I went to that museum in Kentucky, that paranormal museum in Somerset, they had a whole list of cryptids. And Sherry, my mother-in-law, was like, do you know all those?

And before even thinking, I was like, oh, I'm sure I do. And I looked and I was like, I don't know like a third of these. They were so obscure. I wonder if this was on there. Maybe. I also, I'm like,

Sasquatch, that's gonna take forever That's so much so much research Which I have done sasquatch. I think or at least I have working notes for it or like you do it live Yeah, and the Jersey Devil. I think you did. Yeah, you did sasquatch live the day I did DB Cooper and our show was like three hours long I remember cuz my brother was there and he was like, Jesus Christ. Sorry, everyone. That was a great time.

But I just remember both of us picking like monster stories. I think it was Portland, Oregon. Well, this is no Sasquatch. This is a quick one. But I think everyone, especially Sasquatch is in Oregon, too, I think. So he just gets all the attention. So this guy's kind of an unsung hero, you know? I love that.

I love that you said it's like an indie, an indie cryptid. All of a sudden you're going to be like the favorite hipster fan of his. I am already. I told you, a wuga from the start. Little did you know, I actually already spoke colossal. So his three sightings were in the 1930s, so almost 100 years without anyone seeing him. It's almost as if.

Stop! Don't even. I wouldn't even. Think about what Jenny slash Joni would say. Patricia would be so hurt, yeah. Patricia. Yeah. Sorry, Diane.

I hope you're okay. Can I be honest? I don't remember names. I'm so, I know you're okay. Can I be honest? I don't remember names. I'm so, I know it's like such a lame thing to say I'm bad at names, but like, I think in those moments too, you're so like wired to be just like friendly chatty, like be, you know, and then it's like that information doesn't necessarily stick, you know? So I don't think it's, it's not personal. I'm already excited if there's an email from Megan eventually

where it says, my name is Janie Joanie Patricia Diane. Yeah, what if it's actually Megan and you've just blocked it out? What if the name is actually Megan? That would make sense. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Okay, so in 1934 is our first sighting of this big old sea serpent.

It was seen by a guy named L.A. Larson, and he was the first mate of a tender boat called the Rose. If you had a boat, what the hell would you call it? Not that. Me either. USS, I've thought about this before, and the SS, I don't know. I wish I came up with like a funny thing

I wish I feel like this is a question I should we should be prepared to answer because it feels like something you'd get Asked in like a weird context like this. Yeah But I don't even have I wouldn't probably name it after Leona I just feel you know how people do that like they need after our lives or whatever Yeah, it just feels the Le their wives or whatever. It just feels like- The Leona sounds good though. It does though, yeah, maybe. But I think like she's got enough

of a 99th percentile head circumference. I don't need to like name a boat after her. She wouldn't even be able to fit on the boat. Okay, fair. She'd capsize it and then what? She's too top heavy, yeah. She would just, that thing would go down. Big brain.

Now, I mean, if you were to say like, I'm sailing the mighty Leona, that sounds very poetic. I like that, but then it feels like that's gonna sink and become a haunted ship. Doesn't it feel like it has like a cursed future? It feels like the SS Leona, the ghostly ship. Like, I don't wanna like get involved in any of this shipwreck business.

But you would be manifesting lore for her, which is nice. That is true, and I probably wouldn't allow her on this boat, because I feel like it's bound to end in a bad situation just by the name alone. Yeah, I see. I see. I would like to think that I would have something punny. Like there was- Yeah, same.

I don't know. I'm not going to be able to come up with an answer right now. I would want to be really proud to say the name of it. Yeah. But here's the thing, though. God, I wish I could. I wish I got rid of them. What if we called it the SS Jenny slash Joni slash Patricia slash Diane? Well, that's it. Now, that's hysterical. We forgot our names and we gave her four different and then none of them are her real name.

That's yeah. That's, yeah. Oh my God, this poor person is like, why are they still talking about me? Honestly, actually that's easily the answer. That's so funny. That's really good. That's so funny. But I recently went on a boat with Allison and it was like at the Harbor and Long Beach, I think.

And there was at least, I wish I remembered what the pun was. But like five boats had that pun. And I really I'd be so embarrassed if like I went up to someone and told them my boat's name. And I was like, this is how funny is this? They're going to be like, I heard that 10 times today. Yikes. Like, that's my boat, too. Yeah. Exactly.

And I got my boat a year before you did. Like, that's what the between the lines says to me. Yeah. Like you're late to the joke. Oh, that hurts. Ah, anyway. Well, this one's called the Rose. Great. 1934, the Rose. And it's also the tender boat, like the smaller boat of a bigger boat. Got it. So people are on the Rose and all of a sudden they see this big creature swimming through the waters and the entire crew on the other ship also sees it. OK, like the bigger one? Yeah. So the captain, his name is Captain Jensen.

He said that it was this massive fucking thing swimming through the water right next to their boat. It had the body of a snake. It was roughly 40 feet long. What? Which I don't even know if I can figure out in my head how big 40 feet is. That's unless it's like next to your boat and you know how long even know if I can figure out in my head how big 40 feet is that unless it's like next to Your boat and you know how long you know what I mean like if you know how long your boat is and you're like Yeah, it must be but yeah that feels and also under the water like you're only seeing parts of it

You know, I would imagine how long is a school bus Okay, 40 feet hell yeah brother you are fucking kidding that's a length of a school bus. That's amazing and So that's so funny. Okay, I'm so good. So weird and so random. I'm so good So you should get a boat. I should get a school bus and put that on a boat Okay, so it's roughly the size of a boat, a bus, a school bus, and it's driving, swimming around you. Horrifying.

One source, I guess one of the people on the boat said that it had a neck that was eight feet long. What? Which is two feet taller than me. Yikes, that's just the neck. Talk about a digestive tract. Holy shit. How wide is a school bus? It's about a third of a school bus.

No, a fourth of a school bus. And it had a big round body. This is a quote. A neck eight feet long, a big round body, a mean looking tail, and an evil snake look to its head. A mean looking tail and an evil look to the face. Okay. Yeah. But if it don't, don't get that twisted. Not an evil tail and an evil look to the face. Okay.

Yeah. But if it don't, don't get that twisted, not an evil tail and a mean face. Correct. That would be really silly of me. Also like imagine if it had a nice face. Like I don't think anything swimming around you that looks menacing is going to have a nice face. I think the sentence would be more meaningful if one side was evil and the other was sweet.

Oh, or if they maybe gave some actual fucking information, like, hey, it had a sharp thing on its tail, not like an evil tail. What the fuck does that even mean? Is that scales or flames? Like M doesn't like opossums and rats because they have evil tails. You know, it's like that doesn't. But like, you can't necessarily equate that. Like, give me some specifics.

And I've always had that. So I've always said that a different source. Here's here's where it gets even weirder because they said a mean looking tail and an evil snake look to its head. But then a different person said, it does have the body of a serpent, but its head is a horse. Yeah, you dummy. Yeah, I'm like in the fear I was still able to recognize it was a horse. What are you talking about? Sea horse? Now that's a great question. Because

it's like with a mane. What do you mean? Like is the mane just like all like matted because it's been in the like I don't understand. Okay. Honestly though, imagine having like a horse mane constantly drenched when you're getting out of the water for a second. Oh my god. And then it gets stuck on like barnacles all the time. And your neck is eight feet thick so it's like already hard enough you know. I can't. And also what are you able to swallow if your neck is eight feet long like what are you like that boat is... the Rose is in trouble that tiny little tender. It's like a chicken nugget for him. Yeah. Yum.

So crew members are watching this thing swim around. They're all apparently sharing binoculars and watching this thing. Why do you need binoculars if this thing is the size of a school bus and next? Great question. Anyway, eventually the captain, they asked the captain if they could get closer. Like, how much closer can you get to this thing? I wonder. Stupid. And the cap, the captain said no, because this thing is so big that I might topple the boat.

What the fuck, like no, we're not gonna drive toward the evil looking snake creature. Right. Fucking insane. Oh, the school bus sized horse headed evil thing. Yeah, let's go run it over and see what happens. Jeez. And also in 1930 in my mind,

they only have like wooden oars. It's not like they're speeding down there. They don't have like the fucking Coast Guard on call, you know? Well, this was in the captain, not only said no, because that was like stupid. And I don't know what the standards and practices are for a big monster in the water. But certainly the captain was on the right side. But to add to it, this crew, I guess, had recently had a lot of bad luck. Like they spent a month in the water

during rainstorms, like it was all only rainstorms for like 30 days. Not good. Then they spent oh, one of like one of the crew members had a mental breakdown. Oh, in the. Orgonian magazine, newspaper, Oregonian? It's quoted saying- Oh, Oregon, like Oregonian. Yeah, I think Oregonian, yeah. Okay, yeah, thank you.

I didn't know. About this one crew member who like, had like some sort of anxiety attack or something. In the 1930s, they were quoted saying, "'He became insane and had to be tied up for safety until a lighthouse tender was able to creep close enough three days later to take him off and hustle him ashore where he could relax and quiet his nerves. So he lost those 30 days in the rain were crazy.

I mean, honestly, it's like, well, sure, if you're already feeling it and then you're if you have any mental health issues and suddenly everyone's tying you with ropes, like, yeah sure, if you're already feeling it, and then you're, if you have any mental health issues, and suddenly everyone's tying you with ropes, like, yeah, that's messy. Okay, but imagine you're having that kind of mental breakdown, let's say because you're stressed about being in the water, or you miss home, or you, whatever the reason is, imagine then the next day,

a school-sized, a school bus-sized horse shows up in the water. Honestly, do you know how it feels? I'd be like, oh, thank God everyone's paying attention to something else. Finally, actually, that's a great point, because my first thought was like, that would have been something to snap about if I snapped one day later. People would have understood. At least now everyone.

But now it's like everyone else is like just as crazy as I am. What? Hooray. You know. And at the very least, I'm so nosy, I'd be like, I had to deal with all this bullshit for the last month on this boat and I missed the school bus sized horse. Are you fucking kidding me? That would have made my day. Really, really?

And now everyone believes you? Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the captain said, no more chaos for any of us. We're not getting near that thing. Let's stay away from the 40 foot horse snake. And although they reported this experience, the news never really picked it up. I don't know if that's stay away from the 40 foot horse snake. And although they reported this experience, the news never really picked it up.

I don't know if that's because it was the 1930s and they didn't have enough oi mistas, but whatever. Three years later in 1937, another report comes in. So three years it hasn't been seen. But this whole boat full of people saw it. So that's interesting, cause usually it's only like one guy saw. Or like a dad and a son who are out fishing and like,

yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like a group is different. So people had technically heard of it if they were reading the right newspaper, I guess, or if they went to the right pub and heard the story, but nobody had seen anything. Three years later, another captain of a different boat, this one's called the Viv, which I also wouldn't name my boat,

but it's more fun than the Rose. I like the Viv which I also wouldn't name my boat but it's more fun than the Rose I like the Viv yeah um Captain Graham of the Viv he saw something and he called it quote a long hairy tan colored creature with a head of an overgrown horse 40 feet long and a four foot waist a four foot waist so it's like hourglass figure? You know, that's a great point. Like an eight foot neck and a four foot waist? If your neck is eight feet long and then half that on its side. I thought it was eight feet wide.

No, big ass neck like a dinosaur, like a brontosaurus or something. Oh, I thought it was how wide it was. Okay, I see, I see, I see. No, it's eight feet tall and then's waist is half that on its side. It's it's a weird, weird, weird shaped animal. But 40 feet and a horse head. So we're all of a sudden we're on the same track. Now, again, you could just like maybe in boating

conversations and like the boating circles. It's like everyone knows about this creature. And now we're just saying so. He's just heard of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no one else has come forward and like had such an intense need to report it to the newspaper.

Again, not much was done, but a few months after this guy said he saw something, a couple that was out by the water, they saw what they called an aquatic giraffe. What? Love that. I'm so glad you specified the eight foot thing because I would have been like, sorry, what?

This is a totally different- What is this, Jumanji? Yeah, like what is happening in this fucking water? Okay, okay, so the eight foot long neck, okay, I get it, I get it. The giraffe, that's honestly the best description so far. Yeah, I think so because if it's, I mean, I guess a giraffe is a horse head

with a long ass neck. Good fucking point, it has the mane and all that shit. Yeah, look, it's not mane, I don't know what it's called, but you know what I mean. Why has no one else said giraffe yet? Great point, maybe it doesn't have the little horns that a giraffe has. Oh yeah, the teeny tiny ones.

What is that for? What is that? Well, you know how they always wrestle with their necks? Yeah, but that, wouldn't you make those, wouldn't God turn those into little spikes if they were supposed to be weapons? Wouldn't God have done a lot of things? Why did God make a giraffe, first of all,

of all animals? First of all, they're actually called ossicones, so check yourself. I watched you Google it. Everyone heard me Google it. Ossicones? Ossicones, and they are columnar, columnar or conical skin covered bone structures

on the heads of giraffes, male okapi, and some of their extinct relatives. What are they for? Similar to speed- oh they use them as weapons during combat, told ya, where they use their heads as clubs. Yep, it allows them to deliver heavier blows with higher contact pressure and Nerve bundles and large blood supply in the Oscar's have led some research to speculate that structures may also play a role in thermo regulation Interestingly that is interesting because I mean that's the top of the dome so Off the top of the Oscar cones or whatever That was that was on Wikipedia just FYI

Interesting. Yeah, so it feels like then they're just like stabbing each other with a dull knife then No, no, I think they're like Like thick bony structures and so like when you're swinging your head around like that would swap you, you know Because they do fight with those giant necks. I used to think they were the giraffe's ears. Oh, they got those too. Yeah. What's the mane called? Off the dome, off the ossicones, what do you know about that?

It's called, sorry. Giraffe mane, I already know you're looking giraffe mane. I'm not, I'm actually just cutting out. Do you hear me glitching? Yeah, it's actually called a main. So I was right the first time. Mm hmm. I'm so glad that we thought about it, though. Mm hmm. Thank you for reminding me. Yeah.

OK, so aquatic draft. Basically imagine a draft on top and a snake on the bottom. I can't. OK. OK, I'm trying. I'm trying my best. Yeah. And then that would also make sense why it's the size of a school bus, too. I feel like, okay. I'm trying, I'm trying my best. Yeah, and then that would also make sense why it's the size of a school bus too. I feel like a giraffe is the size of a- It would make total sense, you're right.

Just imagine a giraffe swimming, damn. No, this is getting so scary. Except the giraffe wouldn't have any of its tall ass legs. How tall is a giraffe without its legs? Cause without my legs, I'm like three feet. If you make me close out of the giraffe Wikipedia page one more time and then find it again. Well like how much of the height is the leg? You know what I mean? Like how much of Hank without his legs is just like an inch it seems

Okay, oh, okay, the leg is a significant part approximately six feet long The leg is a significant part, approximately six feet long. But then obviously the neck is also about six feet long. So pretty similar, I think, on average. Interesting. Do you like this related question? Do giraffes have four legs? Oh God. Who, how many people are asking that?

The zoo. Okay, anyway, enough about giraffes. But this thing looks like an acquired giraffe. They said its neck stuck out 15 feet out of the water, which means it's double giraffe if it's like six. What the fuck? If the neck is usually six feet on a giraffe and this thing's 15, that's like two and a half giraffes.

Yeah, that's giant. Imagine two and a half giraffes stuck together in a trench coat. If you could imagine one more thing, swimming through the water. Oh man, I have so many things to say about this type of world. I only have so much like creative juice in my mind left for today. Well, this couple said the neck was 15 feet out of the water,

almost as if it was just like standing in the water, like as if we were standing in the shallow wind. And they said its body felt closer to 60 feet, which is terrifying. Oh, so it's grown. Yeah, the draft and the couple apparently stared at each other for a very long time, close range.

And then it got spooked by something and swam away. That's good. Yeah, I don't know if I would want to stare it down. But like, what do you do, right? Cause if you're like, if I move, maybe it'll like startle it, you know? I feel like it's just that like frozen, like now what? Or what if it accidentally followed me home and I like,

it just climbed out with its spindly legs out of the water. Yeah, but now we have either a really, really wretched horror story or a cute children's book idea. That's a great children's book idea. Depends on what angle we take. By the way, talk about you and me writing like a kid's's book idea. That's a great children's book idea. Depends on what angle we take. By the way, talk about you and me writing like a kid's book one day. Imagine a series of cryptid books for kids,

but one of them is colossal cloud and he's just a little scared of people. He's just a giant giraffe with spindly legs following you home and what's so scary about that? So we should, okay, there was a book growing up called Flipped where, do you remember that book? No. Oh, it was so good growing up called Flipped where, do you remember that book? No. Oh, it was so good because it was about this little guy, this little guy, this little boy

and this little girl and you would read the guy's version, he was like 10 and had like, I think the girl was either mean to him or he had a crush on her, I don't remember which one. And you would read his whole story, then you would turn the book upside down and on the other side of the book was her perspective of everything. And then, yeah, it was like such a cool, it blew my mind when I was a little kid. We should do that with Colossal Cloud where it's like Colossal Cloud being nervous and then like the town's people running in fear.

He just wants to belong, you know? Yeah, it's like wicked, but cryptid. Right. Same difference. Okay. There's last, the last sighting was in 1939, so two years after that. And there was a boat called the Argo,

which is my middle favorite of the boat names. And Captain Anderson on this boat claims that the creature was 10 feet from them during the sighting. Its head and neck were poking out of the water while it was eating some fish. Now mind you, the Argo is a fishing boat. So really what the captain saw was this creature eating their supply, which I love.

And one source said that Colossal Claude raided the boat like he's a fucking pirate. But he really actually was he was definitely stealing their fish because this is a quote from Captain Anderson. He had a bent snout that he used to push a 20 pound halibut off of our own fishing lines and into his mouth. What the F? Okay, this is getting weird because I'm like, okay, it's one thing to see it from afar and then the stories grow but like to be like, hey, I'm working and this fucking thing is

interfering with our job. Think of how much money a fisherman would have gotten for a 20 pound halibut. I don't have any clue, but- More than a dollar. I imagine it's a good amount, yeah. Yeah, and to watch it just kind of- Imagine it's more than none, you know.

And to watch this creature pull it off the fishing line feels like you just watched him like slurp it off a popsicle stick and is like, thank you so much for catching that for me, now I'm gonna eat it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. just watched him slurp it off a popsicle stick and was like, thank you so much for catching that for me. Now I'm gonna eat it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The crew did say some new information about him,

that he has glassy eyes. Right, well he's coming right toward them, so I guess they get a good view of his little head. Not the head of a horse or a giraffe, but this time he was described as the head of a camel, which I guess they're all very similar. Oh, okay, so hey, that is similar, yeah. And of course- With those teeth. Yeah, and also does that have now,

with the fish eating, do they have a big old black tongue? I was gonna say, camels, giraffes, I don't think they eat fish, like, right? That's not a thing. They live in the Sahara, like, that's not, they live in the desert. Why on earth is this thing eating fish?

There are people that aren't even made for that. There's herbivores. Another great children's story is a camel finding water for the first time and going, holy shit, and just sitting in it. And eating a bunch of animals instead of like, the vegetables. And never leaving. Yeah, oh, that's kind of nice.

Well, that's like an oasis, I guess, in the desert. Hmm, I don't know. Yeah, but this one's a whole ass river. And he just floats for the rest of time. Okay. These just feel like they're on the edge of being really upsetting. I feel like we need to rein it in a little and make it a little more whimsical,

but we can work on that. How about I pitch you the ideas and then you make them family friendly? I soften them a little. Sure, sure, sure. You're the Miss Rachel to my Stephen King. Okay, okay, wait, okay, sure. You're the Miss Rachel to my Stephen King. OK. OK. Wait, OK. OK. We can do that as teamwork.

So apparently he was so huge that the captain and the crew didn't they really didn't want to move and like move the boat at all because they were afraid that he would have, quote, sunk them with one nudge. OK. Wow. Which Which imagine you're like, it's like Clifford the dog going in for a nose boop and he like breaks the house. And you're just like frozen. I mean, that's, it is really scary.

Well, one of the crew, literally this is like the idiot of the boat, tried to poke him. Okay, good. With a boat hook. Oh, for God's sake. And the captain put it into that right away. Can you, you know that guy got fired on that day, immediately. Yeah, for God's sake. And the captain put it into that right away. Can you you know that guy got fired on that day immediately?

I sure hope so. Well, this was the last of only three confirmed sightings of Colossal Claw, despite there being other less well documented sightings. But these are the three that people really care about. By World War Two, nobody was reporting on Colossal Claw. He seemingly kind of faded away. And theories suggest that he was some sort of large fish in the water, like an oar fish, a whale, or a shark.

A lot of marine biologists say that he was some, in somewhere in the shark family. Someone said he is a jellyfish. Camels and jellyfish, I'm so sorry, look different and are completely different sizes. I think someone overheard someone else. How many legs does a giraffe have? Truly, it sounds like someone overheard

another group of people talking about colossal cloud and just wanted to try to. Fish, jellyfish, yeah, let's just go with that. So most people think it's probably just like a weirdly oversized shark or it's like a weirdly oversized water snake but many people and especially the cryptid world think that he is the last of a colony of Plesiosaurus which is the same as Nessie and when you look up up Nessie, that also looks like maybe an aquatic.

It's a plesiosaurus, right? Plesiosaurus, yeah. Yeah. That's right, Em, you're right. I just looked up plesiosaurus and they have that creepy little neck. It has a giraffe neck and it has like maybe a not so snake-like head.

I wouldn't call it a horse, giraffe, or camel, but okay. Yeah, but I guess if it were like happening in front of you and you didn't get a good, I wouldn't call it a horse giraffe or camel, but okay. Yeah, but I guess if it were like Happening in front of you and you didn't get a good. I don't know. Yeah Yeah, wow, it looks like a like a snake an underwater snake dinosaur I'm literally on like D&D websites because that's where the information is. So Like this is the most convincing to me so far. Of course. Well, yeah sadly a lot of my cryptid information does come from like fan sites because it's like, where else am I going to get it?

They do their work. I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying, yeah, it's kind of bummer that there's not like more official documentation. Well, people think that Claude may be a lone plesiosaur, or us? Pliosaur rust, that may be stuck around here because he found the river salmon population. Oh, and then he has all these fishermen just like feeding him off the popsicle stick. Yeah, it's like a dog finding a field full of spoonfuls of peanut butter

that people are just handing out. Or just like living behind a restaurant, the cats living in a seafood restaurant being like, this is perfect. He's literally a water cat, yes. Oh my God, now hold on, Oliver and company, but make it please. He's sore, you know, easy.

We'll shop it. We'll shop it. We'll show it'll be part of our book series. We'll put it all out at the same time. I'm serious. All sightings were. Oh, the reason that they claim this or why they think that maybe he's living off the salmon is one. One of those sightings was that he was eating fish.

Also, all the sightings were during salmon seasons. And when the population slowly petered out, so did the sightings of him. So they think maybe he followed other fish to a different area or maybe he just died because he was hungry and there weren't fucking fish. Oh. And since he's a plesiosaur, technically he could get out of the water because plesiosaur are like seals where like you can be out of the water because plesiosaurus are like seals where like you can be out of the water for seconds. Yeah.

So in theory he could have waltzed away, but then again people would have noticed a 60 foot school bus horse camel draft snake. Yeah, yeah, you'd think, you'd think. You'd think. You'd like to hope so. Although interesting that like I said, multiple groups years apart from each other with minimal news coverage

to have biased them, they have all claimed to see the same thing. In the same area, I find that very intriguing. In 2017, there was a bit of a resurgence for Colossal Clawed. He got a shout out on this show called The Proof is Out There. Hell yeah.

Season three, episode six. It's essentially like unsolved mysteries, but then they give you a verdict of like what they think really happened. OK, I love it. So in 2017, there were these two friends that went kayaking in the area and they it's 2017. So they had their phones out and they saw something weird in the water. They're like, what the fuck is that? So they filmed it. So that film, that footage got on the show.

I almost said this during I was like, man, I wish that there were any sources besides the 1930s when someone had a camera phone. So that's very exciting. OK. So they and also what they saw, I will say, if you and I saw that, we would have been pooping ourselves. Oh, I don't doubt it. They started seeing strange bubbles rise from the water and not like a like a low simmer, like all of a sudden it looked like like a fountain was

trying to turn on under the water or like shit like when the sprinklers are kind of fucked up. So they're kind of half spouting. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. I don't like is gurgling. Oh no no no no. So that started happening in the water. He takes his iPhone and, I think maybe it was waterproof or water resistant. It was actually a Samsung Galaxy, so be careful. It was some sort of I can film underwater phone. Oh, OK.

Because then he puts his phone in the water to be like, what's under the water that's causing these bubbles? And he couldn't see anything, because as soon as he put his phone down there, there was this underwater eruption of leaves and mud and everything got like super brown and disgusting and like totally blocked any View of what he could have seen what? Funny enough the second kayaker was so scared that she started kayaking away and fucking left him

I mean for every person for themselves Even if it's just like some sort of natural wonder, it was it would have. And you're on the water, too. It's not like you're seeing it from a bridge. Like you're literally sitting on the girl. You're in its house all of a sudden. And then you're also like in a kayak, which of all the boats, I would argue that in a canoe are the most flippable, you know. Absolutely. Yeah.

But there's just like debris everywhere. Apparently, the mud and the leaves smelled like ass. Like he was like this. Like you could even hear him in the footage go, what is that smell? Oh, do you think he's like a lays down there and just waits and rises? Oh, well, so on the show, they had like talking heads of like someone who leaned into the spooky side of things, someone who leaned into the science side of things.

And one of the talking heads said as a suggestion, it was like, well, you know, in this area, there's an underwater crypt named Colossal Clawed, and that's how he got like this shout out. And now if you look up Colossal Clawed, it'll say he was featured on Proof. Proof is out there. Really, he just got a bit of a shout out. Was it the same area though? It was the same area.

Okay, so that does track. It was like not enough officially like Columbia River, but the waters connect in there in the same area. But another talking head who was, I think she was the neutral party, she said, Well, the lake doesn't have enough salmon or fish these days to sustain a massive creature like colossal clouds, so it probably wasn't him. And I like how like that's the reasoning.

I love the logic. Yeah. Yeah. She was, she was definitely playing for both teams, I guess. I love that. She's like, she's like, I'll be diplomatic about this. She's like, maybe. However, there's really not a lot of fish. And then another guy who was a geologist, he said it was just gas trapped at the bottom of the lake and it released methane, which is why it smelled. I mean, that does make some sense. I would say The bubbles yeah

Yeah And he said all it takes is like one little crack of like the rocks with all that pressure to just like cause It's he sounds like a very it's a common natural thing that happens. Yeah, but it looked scary as shit And the show even says quote our verdict natural gas And the show even says quote our verdict natural gas Could ancient alien could this alien Theory say yes Well, so although colossal clod hasn't been seen in quite a long time his memory lives on amongst cryptos lovers And he even has his own craft beer called the rogue colossal clod IPA and in quotes with a colossal dose of hops.

Oh yeah, that's gonna be a doozy. And that's colossal quad. Very good. Thank you, Janie, Joni, Patricia, Debbie, whatever your name is. Diane, come on. Oh my God, that was great. I hope that they're not like,

I hope they listen to this episode. Imagine they miss this by some odd. That'd be crazy. If you're out there, just sorry about that. But also, so sorry. This is what happens if you speak to us in public. We really go off the rails and I do apologize. And I'm so sorry that you saw so much pasta just being shoved. It was like I was shoveling it.

It looks like it was my last meal on Earth, like of all the meals to catch me in. That was the wrong one. I'm so sorry. As someone who's witnessed it many a time, I do also want to apologize and say, I understand what you've been through. One time I, the only other time that's ever happened, I got recognized at the airport

and I was about to miss my flight and I had all this Panda Express from the food court. And I was like truly like, Horfin it. Like couldn't breathe. I was shoving as much in my mouth as I could. And of all things Panda Express is, yeah. Yeah. And I was sitting, I was shoving as much in my mouth as I could. And of all things, Panda Express is... Yeah. Yeah. And I was sitting in a chair next to our gate

and I look over at the person sitting next to me and on her lap is her phone out and I can see that she is listening to and that's why we drink. Stop. And I look at her and go, hmm? And then she looks at me and she goes, hi. Like she just like she she knew, I knew, and I couldn't even say anything because my mouth was full of food. It was just all.

Your eyes said it all. Your panic stricken eyes said it all. Between Panda Express Girl and Miss Diane or whatever your name is, I appreciate both of you just letting me be in public. That's very nice. Thank you. Yeah, Em likes to really be themselves, you know,

out and about, so. And we all like to respect that. I've learned. I'm just gonna be a better eater. No, you be yourself. We all love this you you are. Thank you. You the you you are. That's colossal, Claude.

I'm glad everyone had a fun moment before Christine has to break all of our hearts per weekly chore. Again and again, I'm contractually obligated to ruin your day. Christine. Uh-huh. I guess I'm gonna tell you.

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This podcast is sponsored by the crisp refreshing angry orchard. Listen guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest, sometimes it's hard not to be. I get angry at things all the time. Hank just barked, I hated that. I immediately got angry.

It was certainly hard for all of us. I'm eating cherries and I bit into a pit, back on being really angry, all sorts of stuff. You know what makes me mad that when my phone thinks I'm really angry and I'm writing ducking. Oh, and all of a sudden I'm ducking pissed. I'm like, do you, and then I get, I'm like, do you know that you've just agitated me beyond all belief?

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from culinary apples and dryness of traditional cider making apples, resulting in a complex yet refreshing hard cider. Every time Christine drinks one, I hear her do this. At the end she goes, ah. I'm like, ooh. That's what I do too. It's so good.

I would like one right now. I might actually go get one. Get an angry orchard cider today. Don't get angry, get orchard. Please drink responsibly. What, so what you got? You got your blue juice? I got my wild blueberry juice.

I see. I see. It has the aluminum. But she has she has legs. She has got some legs about her. Look at that. Look at that. Doesn't it look like I don't I don't know much about it, except that it's 100 percent wild. That is pretty well from Maine even. That is a main blueberries. Yeah. Wow.

It says lol in one bottle, 43 grams of sugar. Holy shit. Well, shake well before serving. Oh, wow. Bartender, star tender. Look, not my first rodeo, maybe on planet Earth, but aha, aha, the gravity might be a little different here. Is this like almost my first wine that I've ever had? Oh my God, this is like ASMR. Well, anyway.

Okay, nevermind. I take it back. I spoke too soon about the ASMR. This is my first time, it seems. I mean, I don't know how to open a wine bottle and I'm a wine now by trade so elevator music Here we go, oh look I'm becoming Christine I'm just using knives everywhere I really the sharp

Yeah, I do see now how alarming it is to be on the other end of this. Do you? Yeah. Will you now stop or no? Okay. What do you think? As I said it, I went, why did I say that at all? Okay. Mission accomplished so far.

Fantastic. Just barely. Okay. Oh, she's beautiful. Oh my gosh. Look at that foam. Whoa. What is that? Okay. Ooh, she's beautiful. Oh my gosh, look at that foam.

Whoa. I literally almost went. No, I almost went to smell a vision. I mean, I don't, it smells like grapes, which is interesting. Interesting, maybe it's like the concentrated, because it's so concentrated. Here, some ASMR for people. This glass I got out of the fucking Jetsons. What in the world?

This is like I'm so excited on and that's why I drink. I'm drinking for the first time. Ah! Hmm. She's got. She's got this is going to be the moment where I do it all over. I spray the juice all over the my keyboard. She's got pretty. She's got long legs. She's a very beautiful color. Hmm. Hmm.

I hate it. No, you don't. It's. It doesn't taste like blueberries. Is it sour? On the front end, on the front end, it's very tart. What's the nose? It really smells like wine, which is weird. Are you sure it's not alcoholic? Yeah, it's a hundred percent blueberries. You're right.

It really smells and they card you for it. That would be the question. And it doesn't taste like wine, but it does smell exactly like wine. Well, I bet it smells like wine to someone who doesn't drink wine. I bet to me it would not smell like wine. That's true. I know the first little bit of it has like a sour bite and then it doesn't taste like anything. What? Which is not what blueberries taste like to me. I was just thinking like a sweet sweet situation. Although I guess if you bite a blueberry then they're like mostly water inside kind of. I don't know, it depends.

I kind of want to like take a bunch of blueberries from my fridge and smash them up and then try it against this and then prove that this is a lie. Maybe it's because they're wild blueberries. Oh, you're right. Anyway. I mean, I don't know.

Don't say I'm right. I don't fucking know. I am, I mean, look how like the color like cakes onto this bottle. Like, look at that., don't say I'm right. I don't fucking know. I am, I mean, look how like the color like cakes onto this bottle. Like, look at that. It looks like it's painted now. It's not messing around. Thank God I'm not wearing white.

But I am gonna do the classic wine thing and sip it anyway. So. Oh, I love that. Oh my God, what a power move. Hell yeah. So I'm gonna say- So just expect like a grimace every few seconds everyone. Yeah well also as Christine talks about some horrible at least now there's a

Double on pond or whatever. I yeah, you've almost got like a double sensation of like just an unpleasant time on Afront to all your senses. That's exactly right. Yeah, and ours too. So thank you for that Wow, wow em nostrils flared so Like I I'm not trying to be I really I'm gonna drink it on principle that I bought it at Airwine You know it was expensive. I have a lot of promise it was yeah, I don't doubt it It's it is the most beautiful color drink. I've ever seen in my life. It is like can I say you don't have to drink it I'm sure people have said that to you before, Christine, did that stop you?

It sure didn't. And you know what else? You could also use it instead as like a additive to like sparkling water or something or like a mocktail. That's true. That's what the rest of the bottle will be for. Maybe that's what it's more meant for. Yeah, okay, so you sip it now.

Also think of all those antioxidants. Bro, I'm thinking about anything to get me through it. Okay, wow, yeah, okay, fair point, fair point. Alrighty, everybody. I am back at it with the Delphi murders. I have part two here, and I am glad we recorded within like a week so that at least we have some memory of the last episode.

Just as a recap, I'm not gonna make you go on the stand here, At least we have some memory of the last episode. Just as a recap, I'm not gonna make you go on the stand here, but I'm gonna give a quick recap, and then if you have any questions about anything I missed, let me know. Quick recap of the Delphi murders, Abby and Libby, teenage girls, they were murdered on February 13th, 2017 at the Monon High Bridge.

There was that Snapchat video that, or the Snapchat photos, I'm sorry, that Libby had taken and had taken a video of him on her phone and police initially released a photo of the suspected murderer. I didn't say where it was from, ended up being from her cell phone. They also released the first sketch of the suspect

because you couldn't see his face in the photo. And they released an audio clip eventually of the man speaking, saying the words they believed down the hill. Right. This became known as Bridge Guy. And then two years later at a press conference, the police released a second sketch that looked very different, as we discussed from the first sketch. And people started calling it Old Bridge Guy and Young Bridge Guy, because it was like, they were so... And the family was very disappointed, because they felt they had put so much work

into getting that first photo out there. Also, because the pictures looked, as I said last time, looked so vastly different, but then apparently overlapped, like magic all of a sudden, they're the same person. You're right, I think the thing, and I think it convinced me only because I watched the like, layover happen, but I think it was the eyes that were so similar.

It was almost like freaky. Maybe that's what it was. I don't know what it was, but separately, they looked like two completely different people. They sure do, and we have links to those, so we'll definitely share those. Bridge Guy basically became the person everyone was on the lookout for. Citizen Sleuths Online got in the game and started posting.

I mean, of course, things always can get out of hand, even if you have the best intentions. So Online Sleuths were posting, like, side-by-sides of people they knew, and then the sketch. And it's like, you're just creating a frenzy that is taking away from the real story, you know? Yeah. And I'm not saying everybody was doing that.

I mean, obviously I do true crime as well for content, but there were just some people who, and I'll get to it, but there were some people who got a little too involved, in my opinion. Okay. And we'll leave it there for now. Sure. So, this second sketch had been released over two years

since Abby and Libby were murdered and there had been pretty much no, barely any information shared with the public regarding the investigation. Although mainstream media and social media content creators kept proposing like different potential suspects the authorities investigating the case rarely discussed any leads or anybody of interest publicly and

because of this like this kind of lack of information and The new sketch people were starting to think like okay the police have nothing They have watchedched this investigation. If they had any information, they would either be sharing it with us, or they would be on the case and finding the guy. Yeah. And there were a lot of arguments made that, you know,

the police weren't prepared for this and didn't have the right resources and perhaps like compromised the crime scene, which I know we talk about usually with older cases, but this being in the, you know, closer to 2017, so more recent, it was considered that maybe they botched the, or you know, contaminated the crime scene. Some people said that all the volunteers searching

had trampled through the crime scene, and maybe that's why the, you know, there was no DNA evidence. Like you'd think with leaving these two girls in the woods there and a video of him on her phone that they'd be able to like... Were they by the water at all? They couldn't have been washed away

or was it like kind of in the middle of the woods? No, it's pretty much this bridge that goes over this creek. So there is water, but I don't believe it's enough to be... Like their bodies weren't found by the water, a torrential rain or something. No, no, no. And there also wasn't much given about what was left of the scene. So we don't even know if they have DNA evidence.

We don't know. There's just not much being shared at all. So people were, like, a little bit confused, especially when that second sketch came out and they went, who the hell is that? You know, like, two and a half years ago, or two years ago, you said it was this other guy.

So there's just a lot of like, and with a video, they say, oh, there's this video of him, but you only get three seconds of it. And they know there's a longer video. So people are saying, release that, maybe we can find out who it is. So it's kind of this like tension building, right? Like between journalists and the families

and people who want to know content creators and then the police kind of holding things close to the vest. So all that to say, authorities insisted for their part that they needed to keep a tight lid on case details to protect the integrity of the investigation and that they wanted to keep some things private so that, you know,

if they caught the guy, they'd be able to confirm that he knew details, no one else would know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so that's the catch up. So do you feel caught up or is there anything? Oh yeah, no, totally. Okay, great, okay, cool. So here's where we begin with some new info.

We're skipping to February of 2021. This is the four year anniversary of the girls deaths. Libby's grandparents spoke in an interview about their continued hope that the killer would be caught. I imagine that they didn't think they would have to wait till 2021, post mid COVID to like be still looking for answers, but that is just how it sometimes goes.

Although it was two years ago that that second sketch was released, they believed that it could still lead to a break in the case somehow. Maybe somebody just hadn't seen it that that could help and they refused to give up on the investigation. They thanked their community for you know what they were doing and the fact that they kept talking about it and kept caring about it, but that was kind of all they had. They really didn't have much else to go on. So fast forward a few more months, December 6th of 2021,

the Indiana State Police released a statement requesting information on two social media accounts. Now, one's on Snapchat, interestingly, and one is on Instagram, and both accounts had the username Anthony underscore Shots, S-H-O-T-S. Cool. Anthony shots posted photos of himself,

like expensive cars, like stylish wardrobes, mirror selfies, that kind of thing. None of it was real. It was a catfish. It was this guy... Oh, no. ...using photos of a random male model and other people's cars and houses and belongings and

was catfishing girls little girls and he did this to connect with girls as young as 12 and gain their friendship and trust and then would solicit child sexual abuse material from them and That's suddenly was on everyone's radar I am writing down my prediction of what happened. Okay. Because I don't want to accidentally say anything and then like take away from the plot.

I actually kind of like that angle, you know? Yeah. It's like a double-blind experiment. That's not what a double-blind experiment, you know what I mean. Yeah. So they asked for any information on this. And I want to make a point as well here to say So they asked for any information on this.

And I want to make a point as well here to say that the reason we write child sexual abuse material is because the term child pornography implies consent and this being a non-consensual situation with minors. Child sexual abuse material is just a more appropriate word. So in 2017, investigators tracked this account, Anthony Schatz, to a residential address in Peru, Indiana. On February 25th, which was less than two weeks after Abby and Libby were killed,

FBI, state, and local police searched the home of 22-year- old Keegan Klein. There were thousands of messages between Keegan and minors using varied social media and electronic devices. And it was discovered that he also had had another account where he posed as a teenage girl named Emily Ann. Ooh. Okay.

The probable cause affidavit filed by the Indiana State Police in 2020 identified Emily Ann as Keegan's stepsister. And he would use her pictures to target and groom real teenage girls as friends. Which is just one of the more sinister, I mean it's just all fucking sinister. When the police released a request for information, remember that was only two weeks after the two girls were killed. Now we are years later, late 2021, and suddenly the police are requesting any public information on Anthony Schatz. They didn't elaborate on a connection to Abbey and Libby. The statement only said, quote, while investigating the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, detectives with the Carroll County

Sheriff's Office and the Indiana State Police have uncovered an online profile named Anthony Shots. So they basically said, while we were researching or investigating this case, this- Here's a silly crossover. Here's a silly thing that we were wondering about. No reason. And that's how a lot of people took it.

Like, what the fuck? Like, were they messaging? Like, what's the deal? Is he a suspect? And of course, with like a very hungry media out there who's been covering this for years and been speculating, they really, really wanna know. The statement, it didn't help that the email

that they released requesting information be sent to AbbeyandLibbyTip. Are you kidding me? I know. And so it's like, okay, clearly there's a connection, right? But they're not really elaborating. And so this clearly links them. And the statement asks for details from anyone who communicated with him in any way or with

this username, with this profile. They also wanted information from anyone who might've attempted to meet Anthony Schatz in person. So quickly, of course, people start putting two and two together, they're saying, okay, wait, this guy's being investigated for exploiting children online and then two girls are killed in the area. You know, it's adding up, it's adding up.

And so people decide, you know, it's really obvious these are connected. Libby, Abby, or both girls were lured into a trap by an online predator. Becky later said, her grandma, Libby's grandma, that Libby was not naive. So if her murder was a planned trap, she didn't believe Libby would go to the woods

to meet just anyone, but perhaps she would have gone to meet a friend or somebody that she trusted. So it would almost be that classic story of somebody online like really jerking to groom somebody into feeling safe and comfortable around them. And investigators eventually confirmed that Keegan Klein did in fact communicate with Libby over social media before her death. The messages were on the phone they discovered that also had the video of the person walking across the bridge and the photos. Did he admit it or they just saw it on this phone? They saw it on her phone and they did confirm that the two of them were in contact before

her murder. But that is as far as they could get with evidence. They basically found no other link of them planning to meet up. There was no evidence that they arranged any sort of meeting. But of course people aren't buying it because they're like, well, what are the fucking odds that she's engaged by this online sexual predator and then targeted by a random violent man within a matter of months by coincidence like so people are just like Chomping at the bit for more information on this. It got, let's say it got a little out of hand.

I would bet especially like because you were saying last time it's like a small town and everyone knows everyone, right? Yes. I feel like everyone, the tensions will be heightened very quickly. And I think that this case, now that I think about it, because it makes sense for obvious reasons, having taken place in February of 2017, which is the year we started this podcast and the year that or the year we started this podcast and the year that, or the month we started this podcast. And the rise of True Crime was really like hitting that kind of peak,

and it was getting, starting to really snowball. And I think the fact that this happened in 2017 and then, you know, went on for so many years, it became this sort of storyline with certain content creators and people covering it and journalists and they were like covering it for such an extended period of time that like they were invested, you know, and people wanted to know what happened and wanted this solved. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, of course, but over time, some people took it a little far. And one example is this woman who decided to,

as she calls it, catfish the catfish. Oh, beautiful. Okay, well, why are you getting involved, babe? Like, meddling, messy, messy. It was messy. She started like FaceTiming him in jail or like sending him videos and saying- What?

It was so, and he was in jail or like sending him videos and saying what it was so and he was in jail But for this for these other charges And and and she was like trying trying to get on his good side I don't know. I watched some eclipse and I was like and she's like not she's like wearing a towel But she's like this older woman and people were like, well, why are you doing that? Like if he targets young girls like yeah The whole thing was just strange and it was kind of like, and then she's like, and I testified at his hearing

and it just is like, okay, yeah, messy. Like, what are you doing? And it's like the thing that one of the people said in one of the documentaries I watched was like, we're forgetting what this is all about. Like, we're not here to like play a game and try to trap him into, like this is all about. Like, we're not here to, like, play a game and try to trap him into saying, like, this is not about tricking him into saying something.

This is about, like, getting to the bottom of what happened to these girls, and I feel like we're getting away from that, you know? Yeah. No, totally. And also, it's like... I mean, I guess if you... I mean, if you think you're being helpful, I could understand why you would want to do it, but, like, mean you should, you know, like, yeah, yeah, the vigilante thing when there's already like barely any evidence, we already only know some of the

information on all of it, which I guess they wouldn't know. But it's still like just at least give them a second to try to figure it out. Maybe one thing if like we were talking about one of the other missing cases you've recently reported on where the system is not helping the people that are involved and they have to stand up for themselves and they have to take care of it because no one's looking out for them. Yeah. But this is being paid attention to.

That was the argument that they were making because it had been years and they were like, well, they must not have anything because there's just no answers here. So they were using that argument like, well, they must not have anything because like, there's just no answers here. So they were kind of using that argument of like, well, they're not gonna do it, we're gonna do the vigilante thing. But also like, it just felt, the fact that she's still like going on about it, like it was this huge boon to the case and like,

I mean, and I don't know, I don't know all the details, but to me, it just felt gross. I just was like, why are you doing that? And also like, we don't know that that's the guy. Just I mean, I know it, the coincidences are crazy, but like due process. Well, that's out the window, I guess. But you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I know.

Oops, we're going to get like banned just like Calvin and Hobbes or whatever the fuck else they're banning from the Library of Congress. Anyway, so it just was like a little of and then the fact that she's in the documentary Calvin and Hobbes or whatever the fuck else they're banning from the Library of Congress. Anyway, so it just was like a little of, and then the fact that she's in the documentary and then she testified, I'm like, what are you doing? Like, you don't know these people. It just felt so like invasive. And it's not something you can like mess around with

and then you step away. Like it's like, once you took your toe in, you're involved. Totally, and she's like FaceTiming this guy in prison and like all the calls are being recorded and it's a kind of like, whoa, whoa, in, you're involved. Totally, and she's like FaceTiming this guy in prison and like all the calls are being recorded and it's kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It just felt to me a little, a little far, especially when it comes to like trying to prank, or not prank, but I guess like trying to lure the cat.

It just was like, what are you doing? You know, like, no, no, no. You're muddying the waters here. Like this is getting... Did that happen with a lot of people or is she like a specific standout? Yeah, she was like the one who got like really into it and videoed it.

And she's like, yeah, people said I was doing like naked dances and stuff. And I'm like, and she's like, I wasn't doing that. And like, I looked at the footage, I'm like, no, you weren't. But you were also like clearly like half nude and like trying to, you know, like I'm not saying, you know, she did anything like absolutely outrageous, but the whole situation just felt like kind of out of touch to me. Sure.

You know. So, okay, back to this. That's what's happening when Anthony Schatz gets mentioned. That's like how big on the internet this is becoming this, you know, big story or it has been a big story but now Anthony Schatz is in the picture and everyone says well we know what this means even though the police never actually said it. And so on October 28th 2022, which is about a year after the police requested information on Anthony Schatz, the account, authorities announced a press conference scheduled for a couple days later, October 31st. So that day, two news teams reported that a man was arrested in connection to the Delphi

murders. Both sources accessed jail records to identify him as a man named Richard Allen, aged 50, and people were so confused. They're thinking this press conference is about Keegan Klein finally being connected as Anthony shots to these crimes and then all of a sudden there is a name that nobody has ever heard of and this has become a huge community that follows this case and they're very invested, they want answers, rightfully so, and all of a sudden they hear this name Richard Allen and they're very invested they want answers rightfully so and all of a sudden they hear this name Richard Allen and they're all going who like this is not even a person absolutely okay was he

either an accomplice to this king guy who like came forward like he like or like did he regardless of geek did he come forward on his own volition because he like something happened or was he... I don't know in my mind I feel like they were accomplices. How would he have gotten found out though? I don't know. I don't know. This is so interesting. You're like on you're asking the right question. You are. You're asking the exact right questions. OK, because what my first thought is this is my this is my. I feel like, OK. The guy who was snapping them, who is pretending to be

what's his name, Anthony? Yeah. I feel like he as Anthony, he said to me, like, let's all go meet on the bridge. And so they thought they were going on like this, like her and her friend were gonna go meet this cute boy. Then I feel like all of a sudden this grown ass man was there and he was like, oh, I'm his dad, Anthony's down the hill. And then let me follow me and I'll go show you him. And then this Richard guy was there instead. And together they-

Yeah. That's my current thought, no? I mean, I don't... Listen, I find that to be a very intriguing and interesting theory. Okay. Okay. We'll find out, I suppose. Or will we? Okay, let's move on. Oh, okay.

So, I love that. See, this is... I love to hear your perspective because I feel like after watching all the documents, at a certain point, I've heard the narrative enough that I'm like, okay, I know, I kinda know where people's minds are at. But so I like to hear you hearing it for the first time,

what your thought process is. Because I think you're asking the exact right questions and that is pretty much what is being sort of implied, right? Like why are they asking for this guy? They confirmed they were speaking within months of their murders and then all of a sudden they're killed and now this random ass guy shows up. Exactly, that's, yes.

Thank you for even just bringing that up. Cause I think that is something I didn't even put together until now that of course people were starting to think like, well now there's two guys involved. Right. So everyone gets kind of this like whiplash, right? Because they're saying, okay, there's a press release, everyone's prepared for the press release.

They're thinking they're gonna finally announce that like Keegan Klein is involved. And then all of a sudden they say, they don't say anything yet, but the news reports that this other, completely unrelated man, seemingly, 50-year-old Richard Allen has been arrested in relation to the Delphi murders.

And this is the first person that's actually, I mean, this is the first person they've arrested. And so the name coming out of nowhere is like, what? You know? So Keegan Klein would eventually, this is Anthony underscore shots, would eventually plead guilty to over 25 felony counts related to child exploitation, child sexual abuse material.

Yeah, identity deception and obstruction of justice and be sentenced to 40 years in prison. It was sad, just what, I mean, of course it's sad and it's sinister and it's dark as fuck, but to watch either people who knew him or even those clips that that woman was sharing asking, like, why did you do it? And he's like, I guess I was just lonely. And obviously-

What? I know. It's so sick. And it's like, why are we? Whatever. Okay. So this guy is eventually put away for good reason. Mm-hmm. He bled guilty to over 25 felony counts Yeah, I just mean that it and he was sentenced to 40 years in prison But he was never ever declared an official suspect in the killing of Libby and Abby Richard Allen declared an official suspect in the killing of Libby and Abby. Richard Allen.

Like was there a reason for that or? No, they just couldn't they couldn't connect him to anything at the scene. It was basically also they read through the messages. There was nothing they could find that said like let's meet up. Let's go. You know what I mean? Like they read through the messages. There was nothing indicating a meetup or that he even suggested it. Like, I don't know, but he lived in Indiana.

I'm just, I don't know. And also, I mean, as far as I know, this guy never actually met up with anyone. But maybe that was the only time. I don't know. He was never declared an official suspect. So I want to be very clear, he is not related to the case. Richard Allen, however, was suddenly like transplanted into the

case, and he was completely unheard of. Total curveball. His track record, like he was basically got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, but like nothing like no criminal record, you know, it was just like maybe speeding that kind of thing. And so people were totally taken aback. They had no idea who this was. But Libby's grandmother said, wait a minute, I know that guy. Hmm. I don't like that. Was it like a church potluck thing? Very, very good guess. He worked at the CVS where she shopped. Oh, that's extra creepy for some reason. Gross.

Well, it feels more removed. It's like at somewhere where like a church thing where you're seeing each other all the time, I could see someone. Like developing a fixation. Yeah, but a CVS. I know. On random. OK. at somewhere where like a church thing where you're seeing each other all the time, I could see someone starting to like- Developing a- Yeah, fixation- But a CBS. I know.

How random, okay. Yeah, so Becky, but let's get into the details because Becky said that he not only developed and printed photos for her on one occasion, but they were photos from Libby's funeral. Oh, yuck. So he like got to have like an extra little... Is that not like...

So like he got to have that extra excitement of like, oh, I get to now see the pictures of something I caused. I mean, I don't even know if it was intentional, but the fact that he was the one that she saw like, handing the... Like clearly that was a choice, if that is the suspect, if that is the person who did this. So, oh my God, this is why this part two had to be added, because it's so...

Chilling. Well, chilling, but also confusing. It's like, wait, we were sure it was the fucking online sex predator, and now it's like the guy at CVS? That's the chilling part is that it's not the obvious guy. Exactly, exactly. It feels like there were so many more curveballs than expected. Yeah, that's true.

And it's like the fact that there are many people who could be taking advantage of these vulnerable girls, like, the fact that there is... It's also a reminder to all of us that, like, from the most obvious person to the least obvious person, it could be anyone. And it's like, I don't want to strike paranoia, but like, damn, at a certain point, it's like, Jesus Christ. So, okay, it turns out, now, I was interested in what you said as well, because, So, okay, it turns out, now, I was interested in what you said as well, because, fun fact, Richard actually had come forward right after the murders, and he said he had spoken with

a conservation officer, imagine a conversation officer, what is wrong with me? We need one, please, lock me up. Yeah, we need one. Lock me up for yapping, you know what I mean? Jesus. No, the conservation officer. Apparently, he had come forward after the murders, shortly after the murders, and told a conservation officer with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources that he was on the trail that day, but he just, he had nothing to do with it.

What are the odds? Isn't that goofy? What are the odds? Isn't that goofy? What are the odds that two very creepy fucking people would be in the woods and nobody else doing two completely different things? That's very odd. And somehow are now both involved in the same case. Well, the other guy was not spotted in the woods, though.

Bridge Man. Bridge Guy. Oh, but Richard wasn't spotted in the woods. Did he just say, oh, I won't be in the woods?'t spotted in the woods. But did he just say, oh, I'm not gonna be in the woods? Well, no, Richard was in the woods. The social media guy was not ever brought into the picture as far as being on the scene. He was not connected at all to the murder, which is why they kind of had to move on from him.

Like, because he just... Sorry, I got ahead of myself. No, no, no. But so it is confusing again, because there's Bridge Guy on the video. There's first old guy, old Bridge Guy. Yeah. Sketch and then young Bridge Guy sketch. Then there's child predator Anthony shots, who's actually Keegan Klein, who's also Emily Anne. And now here comes this random ass dude from CVS who also days after the murders

just happened to admit he was on the trail and he had nothing to do with it, but he wanted to do his civic duty and let them know he was there, but he had nothing to do with it. Like this is a mind fuck. You know? And so, oh my God,

he was not considered even a person of interest. Like they basically somehow just heard him say I was on the trail and they were like, got it, you know, and moved on. So years after the murder, investigators are now searching for any information on Bridge Guy, as well as a man seen in the area that day

by multiple witnesses. And they believed that Bridge Guy and the guy being seen by these witnesses were the same person. So a volunteer for the police department was sorting through documents when she came across a file from 2017 on Richard Allen. Now this is where we find a fun little admin mistake that is just infuriating because you're like I forget what case it was. Maybe it was Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.

Maybe Jeffrey Dahmer. Where like one admin error ended up like, oh no, no, I'm sorry. I think it was a night stalker. They like wrote down the wrong, okay, now I'm just putting every case out there. But there was a case where they like wrote either the wrong type of truck or like the wrong color and it completely messed up, you know, catching the guy when they could have. So stuff like that happens, right?

But so she comes across this folder, this file, and it's on Richard Allen, but it was filed under the incorrect last name because Richard Allen lived on Whiteman Drive in Delphi. And so they called him Richard Whiteman by mistake. Oh my God. I know, it makes you want to scream. His file was marked with a green dot,

which indicated that he had been cleared after the first and only contact with him in 2017. And this volunteer, Kathy Schank, she had been a volunteer for multiple years as a clerk for this investigation. And she had actually begun as a receptionist before taking on more responsibilities like recording tips in a separate database.

So seeing that Richard was on the trail that day, even though his file was marked green, and that his statement had never been followed up on, the volunteer passed it on to investigators and said, like, maybe this deserves a second look. So investigators did follow up with Richard on his presence on the trail that day. And whatever happened, we don't know the details, but it led to his arrest in relation to the murders. Okay.

Okay. So October 31st, the Indiana State Police announced the arrest and that Richard Allen was being charged for the murders of Libby and Abby, but they did not make the probable cause affidavit public, so nobody knew why. It's like they're playing some secret game. It's so, it's like no wonder the public is like chomping at the bit. They're like trying to get anything, and it feels like-

I feel like they're almost like edging the story along where it's like- Yes, yes, exactly. There's one little tidbit, and also you'll get something else in a week. And then of course it spins everybody out on the news and then it like dies down again, you know. And so this keeps happening and they essentially arrest the guy and they don't make public. Why?

But Richard began to seek private attorneys to represent him at trial. And as he starts making these preparations, the public, of course, turns on him because he's been arrested for this. And the case was so notorious that a judge ordered he be put into protective custody. And then the judge, that same judge, removed himself from the case. And when he removed himself, the order read, the judge of Carroll Circuit Court has determined that the particular circumstances within the underlying case warrant recusal and dictate that a special judge be appointed in this case. The court hereby recuses itself. So the judge was like, I'm out by, and instead the Indiana Supreme Court appointed Judge Fran Gull to the case that same day.

And apparently Richard couldn't afford his own attorney, so he requested a court-appointed defense team. And finally, the media pushed so hard that the probable cause affidavit for Richard's arrest was eventually unsealed. And they did redact the names of the witnesses who had seen him that day on the trail but the witnesses accounts were in there investigators revealed that Richard spoke to the authorities like we said in 2017 because he was on the hiking trail the afternoon that Abby and Libby were

killed mm-hmm he said he was walking on the trail watching his stocks update on his phone Okay, as you do sure he is crypto Watching stocks on my couch sounds miserable in the random on your phone in the woods Yeah, so he's he claims he's watching his stocks Investment stocks on his phone in the woods and he says he walks out into the woods to look at fish whatever that means Maybe he's looking for that fucking giraffe. I don't know, but that water giraffe. That's a good callback. Right? What a good excuse.

I'm looking at fish. Oh my God. So according to the affidavit, he said he saw three females, good start. I can't, I can't. Who are believed to be witnesses that were also interviewed. So basically he's saying he saw these three females,

then there are these witnesses in the report that have been redacted, and they're presumably the same people who witnessed him as well. Those witnesses identified only as three juveniles until they later testified in court, described passing a man who was dressed like the man seen in the video on Libby's phone, AKA Bridge Guy. But I mean, also looking back, it's like a

Carhartt jacket and blue jeans. And so people say like, it's Indiana, you know, you're right, right, dressing the same. And like you saw the video, it's blurry. So it was the equivalent of like, like wearing a, in my mind, a beanie in Paris, or like a like a mind a beanie in Paris or like a beret in Paris. It's like everyone's got one. Yeah, it's sort of like, okay, white dude in Indiana checking his phone. He blends it in very well.

He did. And I think that's, I mean, how else would we have gotten this far, right? With the public looking at this video and not knowing who it is. So the three witnesses say, their side of the story, they say hello to him, but he said nothing back, and one of the witnesses, he just glared at them.

And remember, they're three juvenile, they're minors in this scenario. So, like, they remember this guy. Sure. The affidavit said that Richard was not seen on the trail by any witnesses after 2.13 p.m., at which time, investigators claim he was in the trail by any witnesses after 2 13 p.m. at which time investigators claim he was in the woods murdering Abby and Libby.

The affidavit also described an unspent 40 caliber round discovered on the ground between the girls' bodies. So like remember, hello, public has not known any of this because it's been sealed. Finally unsealed and people are learning like, oh my God, there was a bullet found at the scene. It was unspent, but investigators said that they could match this to a gun owned by Richard. Now this is where it gets a little into the weeds because people argue whether this is pseudoscience or you know, it's the same way blood spatter gets

like that kind of bad rap because it's not always accurate or reliable. But in this case, the round was matched to the gun using a method of forensics outlined by the National Institute of Standards and Technologies. So I feel like it's, it feels pretty legit. When a gun is fired and the bullet blasts down the barrel, it causes these ridges, right, or it counters these ridges and grooves that dig into the metal, soft metal of the bullet, and you can match the striations on the bullet to the weapon. So in that case, the bullet is being

shot and it's kind of exploding forward and you get a pretty clear striation on the bullet. And these microscopic microscopic striations and impressions are unique and they're able to be forward and you get a pretty clear striation on the bullet. And these microscopic striations and impressions are unique and they're able to be reproduced and therefore, sort of like fingerprints, ballistics can identify what gun this bullet came from. Now the thing is this bullet hadn't been shot, right? It had been unspent, it was unspent, so it had been unloaded.

So the round discovered at the scene hadn't been fired, and therefore it didn't travel through the barrel. And so there was this argument of, you know, are the markings unique still when it's just ejected, or is that a little more gray area? You know, how specific, like if, it's one thing if the bullet is shot out of the gun and you can clearly match it, but you know,

but they were able to find markings that they claimed did connect his gun specifically to a crime scene. Okay. This kind of went back and forth. I watched an interesting, like, a searcher sent me a link to a video of this guy explaining it. And the ballistics expert testified at the trial, explains her methods. And it's really, I mean, it's pretty interesting. In the weeks preceding the trial, Richard's defense team blamed multiple individuals. Like they

were kind of going through the rounds of like who else they could throw shade at or point fingers at. Now this is one of the things where Sersha emailed and said I've really got to do I've got to do a part two on this. This is not going to be a one-parter because apparently according to the defense, the individuals who killed Libby and Abby were members of a cult called Odinism. What? Wait, is that real? They killed them as part of a ritual sacrifice. That is what is not real. Is that true? Is that what happened? Or is that just what's being said currently? No, that's not what happened. Okay, I was like what a

Satanist did it okay? I was gonna learn about a whole new cult that I never heard. No you are that is a it is a real thing If that's that's why I asked what is what is what real cuz I'm like, oh, yeah, it's real. I I just don't know It's a white supremacy cult by the way. Oh Yeah, okay. So yeah, so they were oh, they murdered them as part of a ritual sacrifice is what his defense team saying, which like, if that's what you're coming out of the gate with, like, yeah, rough. I hope that's what the judge said to them. Oh, yeah. Ooh. You mean Fran, Judge Fran? Yeah, so here and of course Saoirse was really insightful here because they said I've Coincidentally done a lot of research on Norse paganism and so and its religious reconstruction and links to white supremacy which interesting think about Odinism like ODI in

And so as Saoirse said, getting into that would be an entire podcast on its own, but these are strictly statements made by Richard Allen's defense team. This is not any sort of real history lesson for anybody right now. This is just what they claimed as part of his defense. Okay.

According to the defense team, Odinism is a Norse pagan religion that has been co-opted by white supremacists with a dedicated following in the Delphi area. The defense claimed that there were sticks arranged into pagan symbols at the site of the murder and that the police even consulted with experts on paganism and occultism before shifting gears in their investigation and targeting Richard. So investigators did find sticks arranged over the girls' remains, but they asserted they believed the sticks were there in an attempt to conceal the bodies.

Sure, that makes sense to me. Yeah, not create like a ritual, ritually significant image. The prosecution maintained there was no reason that there would be a ritualistic motive here, that the claims were an attempt to gain media attention, something controversial enough to distract the public from the real issue and the evidence against Richard. The prosecution filed a request to deny to admit any of this alleged occult or pagan activity and the judge ultimately agreed and the white supremacist occult defense was not permitted that trial so that was a wild little detour it certainly yeah what a yes sideshow right it's like every few every page it's like a whole new

narrative happening here no wonder this became such a sensation. So, Odinism didn't work. Take two, the defense later pointed back at another possible suspect, the guy who owned the land, Ron Logan. And he owned the land where Libby and Abby were killed. An inmate wrote a letter that claimed that while Ron was in prison on unrelated charges,

he confessed to Abby and Libby's murders. But the alleged confession contained many details that contradicted the actual nature of the killing. So even if he had somehow admitted this or if the guy in prison was making it up, it didn't actually match what happened at the murder scene. So they were like, this is not our guy. They claimed that Ron temporarily moved one of the girls' bodies, removed the battery from Libby's phone, burned some of their clothes, and the police were like, none of that happened. So this is bogus. You know, it's just like another...

Okay, well good. ...red herring. And then Ron ended up passing in January of 2022. So that was sort of like no further on that. As for Richard Allen, his physical and mental health declined dramatically in jail before the trial. His defense team claimed he was suffering abuse at Westville Correctional Facility by corrections officers

who were followers of Odinism. I can't. The defense claimed to have seen patches supporting Odinism worn by correctional officers on their uniforms. And alleged Odinist inmates were also threatening Richard. And so in a signed affidavit, the warden stated that after the defense is filing, correctional officers were no longer allowed to wear personal patches on their uniforms. That's what it took.

That's what it took. That's insane. So what in the world? This is like bonkers town. I don't even know what's real. I'm not saying none of its real I'm just saying like every bullet gets crazier as I yeah Yeah, certainly. This is I mean you're not you're not explaining it wrong. This is one of I think you're harder to follow stories I I did I could tell Sasha was like in the thick of it. Cause I was like, I was like, cause they sent part one and went like, this is not ready for part two. Like part two is going to be its own thing. And I was like, oh my, I didn't realize this was such a doozy.

But yeah, it just like all over the place. Oh my gosh. Okay. So this Odinism stuff is what his defense team is claiming. Like he's being targeted unfairly and yada yada. So he also stated, the warden, that the facility had very few inmates that practice Odinism, and these inmates had no contact with Richard Allen, so.

So he's not even part of their little club. Yeah, he's not even like a target. He wasn't even invited. He's not even an enemy of their club. Like they don't even care about him. So embarrassing. Like I don't think about you, you know? Wow. While in prison, Richard confessed to his wife more than once by phone to killing Abby and Libby. Why does he want this so badly? Like, or... Each time, his wife told him he did not kill Abby and Libby and something seemed wrong and he seemed unwell.

So you have like, is like, is his brain like fucked up? Like he's got like, is he aging quicker or something? Well, ABC News reported that Richard was held in solitary confinement for 13 months and that in my opinion and has been proven to be a cruel unusual punishment with potentially irreversible psychological consequences. Sure. And the fact that this happened after 13 months of solitary confinement that he's confessing to these murders and his wife is saying you didn't do that. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it's his wife saying don't admit that on the phone. I don't know if it's her not't know. I don't know if it's his wife saying, don't admit that on the phone. I don't know if it's her not believing it. I don't know if it's him having a mental break.

But essentially, his defense claims that he made these confessions under extreme mental duress. And I'm like, I mean, fair. After 13 months in solitary, if you're being pressured into admitting it. Torture, yeah. Yeah, tortured, exactly. Well, I was asking about if his brain was, if something was going on, solitary if you're being like pressured into it. Torture. Yeah. Yeah. Tortured. Exactly. Well, I was asking about like if his brain was if someone was going on,

because I literally last night watched the Law and Order episode where like a guy who was seemingly relatively fine. All of a sudden he started like killing people and it was because he had like advanced syphilis and like his. Oh, like Al Capone. Like his brain was deteriorating and nobody knew it So that's what I that's why I'm up about but okay Yeah, maybe it was just like being in solitary and like losing your mind because after a week it's hell on earth and maybe he and maybe he did it and

He's just now broken down enough to admit it and just can't can't hold it in anymore. Who knows, you know, it's like broken down enough to admit it and can't hold it in anymore. Who knows? You know, it's like, it's just really hard because it's like every time you feel like, got it, it's like, maybe not. It's whiplash. It is. And so, you know, they're saying he made these confessions

under extreme mental duress. Monica Walla, then lead psychologist at the Indiana Department of Corrections, testified that Alan repeatedly confessed to her on different days throughout 2023. However, okay this is like again what the fuck people okay sorry Monica Walla the lead psychologist she claimed that he confessed to her multiple times she said Alan told her he drank several beers before hiking into the woods where he encountered Abby and Libby on the trail and that he used a gun to intimidate them into the woods.

Monica said he intended to rape them but was then startled by a white van passing by. So he made Libby and Abby walk across Deer Creek where he cut their throats with a box cutter and then covered them with branches to conceal their bodies. The prosecution presented the comment about the white van as information only the killer could know because a witness driving a white van was near the location of the murder at 2 32 p.m. and that did match the timeline.

Monica also said Alan seemed relieved after confessing to her although he was still struggling mentally. He was placed on suicide watch during which time he told Monica he wanted to sign his confession and that he wanted to apologize to Libby and Abby's families. So everyone's going, wow what a great source like clearly she would know you know she's an expert here expert witness. Well the defense then came forward and challenged Monica's ability to be objective because it was discovered that Monica had long followed the Delphi murders case. She listened to online true crime content about it.

She spoke about it often in online forums. And it just felt like, I don't know if you can trust that because she also testified that she used her special access to correctional databases to find information on the case. So like the white van could have been something she read, you know, and then like kind of muddied. It's getting muddied. It's like nothing is clearly defined like clear cut. And so even though this is like really compelling, then you find out, well, she's on forums

and she could have known and she had special access and it just starts to feel less cut and dry, you know? No, it's certainly, I thought part two was gonna be like, we're getting answers and now it's too many answers. Remember when you wrote down, remember when you were so naive? I deleted it. You wrote down your,

I was gonna make you read it and then I was was like no, I don't even remember anymore. It's it's certainly not the right answer Or is it who the fuck knows um so she testified that she actually you know So she could have unintentionally or intentionally probably unintentionally planted this white van idea like we just don't know you know and it just feels like less confident now of a lead. So she ultimately closed her social media accounts when concerns were raised about how close she was following the case before Richard arrived at the place where she worked. Richard was observed during his time in jail eating paper, defecating in his cell, wiping his feces around with his hands onto his face, hitting his head, wiping his, yep, his feces around with his hands onto his face,

hitting his head against the wall, refusing meals. I mean, he's very unwell. And his wife said, like, you're deteriorating, you're unwell. So it's like- And also if he was from that area, he like, if he was heard of that area, he was from that small town or whatever, like he would have heard-

He worked at the CVS, yeah. Yeah, so he would have heard about Libby and he printed the funeral photos. Yeah. So so that which is why when you said like, oh, maybe he got like a sick fascination, I was like, honestly, maybe not. Maybe literally just like the CVS. So it's like it's hard to say. And I don't want to like throw it makes sense. But like, maybe maybe that is what happened.

And now he's having this. Mental breakdown, I'm not sure he remembers them, and it just kind of gets blurted out. Yeah And so it it's clearly he's clearly unwell and he's clearly in a compromised psychological state So any confessions feel like they hold less water now, too But the warden and whoa, sorry a huge roll roll of thunder just shook my whole house. I heard it. Ooh, you did? A little bit. Okay, I was like, it was just, pfft.

I'm so jealous. It sounded like Hank's boof. Boof. Ooh, I'm so jealous of you. I don't give anything to hear thunder. Oh, and it's that time of year where it's like, there's like hot thunder. Oh, the heat storms.

Yes, heat storms, and we have like, we have a sky, what are they called? Skylight? Yeah, skylight, it's a heat storms. That's heat storms that we have like the the we have a sky. What are they called? Skylight. Yeah. What's wrong with me? Is that what's called up in the ceiling? The window. The window in the ceiling is a skylight. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We have a skylight and I always forget we have it because it's way just like one singular skylight and then like it will start pouring rain.

And I'm like, what is that sound? And I like, I'm like, oh, right. It's the skylight. But it is kind of cool because it's like, what is that sound? And then I like, I'm like, oh right, it's the skylight. But it is kind of cool cause it's like, oh, you hear it on the roof. Anyway, okay, you'll probably hear that in a moment, but anyway, back to this. So the warden at the facility

and multiple corrections officers, we're talking about him being psychologically unwell. They claim this is an act for the most part. They claim that in one of Richard's confessions, he asked, how do I prove I'm insane? And they think he's putting on a show. Deficated doing this whole hitting his head against the wall to claim insanity. This is what this is what the warden and the prison facility is saying,

and the corrections officers are saying. So it's he said, he said, much of Richard's confessions and behavior were said to have begun after he received the so-called discovery documents, which would include all the information they had against him and could use against him in trial. The implication being that maybe he realized how much evidence they had against him and panicked. Yeah, yeah, I don't blame him.

Pled insanity, right? So before trial, the defense and prosecution both agreed it would be nearly impossible to find impartial jurors in Carroll County. Like you said, it's a small town. Everyone has been following this very closely. So what they did was they, they pulled jurors from a different County, but held the trial there. So they, they basically like bust them in from somewhere else. Okay, got it. The jury heard 17 days of testimony in what I know,

a lot, including what was considered the strongest evidence in the case, which was a murder timeline, which involved the witness testimony of Richard's presence on the trail, Richard saying he had seen this white van, as well as the unspent round that matched Richard's gun. And so on November 18, 2024, after 19 hours of deliberation, the jury declared Richard guilty

on four counts of murder. And a month later, he was sentenced to 130 years in prison. And he immediately appealed. So during the sentencing, the judge accused Richard of rolling his eyes at her after hearing the witness impact statements from Libby and Abby's families. Not a good look, but... No. She actually reprimanded him repeatedly for rolling his eyes at her throughout the trial. And this was really striking for listeners because there were no cameras permitted, so people couldn't see him, but they could hear this, this kind of like,

like a scoff, like a, no, they couldn't hear anything from him. So her saying, stop rolling your eyes at me was basically the only evidence people had like, oh shit, like they wouldn't have known this guy was having this kind of sure attitude problem or whatever. But she kept saying, don't roll your eyes at me. And people were like, oh, my God, this motherfucker is like kind of attitude problem or whatever. But she kept saying, don't roll your eyes at me. And people were like, oh my God, this motherfucker is like hearing the family speak and rolling his eyes.

And so, you know, it was helpful that people were able to know that I suppose. But Abby and Libby's families both spoke at the trial. Abby's grandfather, Eric Erskine said that losing Abby was like losing a limb that will never grow back and that the information he learned during the trial confirmed his worst nightmares about what Abby and Libby suffered.

He said, addressing Richard, you will never take away our memories and their legacy. In a written victim impact statement, Libby's mother, Carrie, said that her younger daughters were robbed of their big sister, and she said she was so proud of Libby, her daughter, for recording her video that day to expose her murderer.

In a documentary, Kelsey, Libby's sister, said Libby was heroic for thinking fast and discreetly recording Richard before she was killed, and of course that Abby was heroic too, especially because the two of them stuck together. Instead of, you know, leaving, running away, leaving one alone, they stuck together. And so their family said they were proud of them for that. Now, as recently as March of this year, so we're talking three months ago, Richard's team has made motions and appeals attempting to have Richard's convictions overturned

based on challenges to the prosecution's case at trial, including the timeline. So that should be interesting. The appeals are unsuccessful so far, and Grandpa Mike made a statement that he respects these filings as Richard's judicial right, but he wishes Richard would just accept responsibility for the killings and quit appealing. The girls' families have, of course, also been very distressed by a lot of the online kind of commentary and sleuthing and throwing around random names and theories that have muddied the water and and kind of put them in the spotlight in the worst way.

For example, remember how they released like three seconds of Bridge Guy and it was him saying down the hill? So guy and it was him saying down the hill. So the full video is 43 seconds and it was not meant to be made public but it was shown to the jury at trial and it got leaked I guess and somebody leaked it and it's now publicly available. I did watch it before I realized this was something that had been leaked accidentally. It was in a documentary, but I gotta tell ya, it's not something you wanna watch. It's not anything, they didn't release anything

very gruesome or anything like that, but to hear kind of the last words of a little girl as she says to her friend, is he still following us? And you hear one of them say, a gun, like he has a gun. Oh no. It's horrific, you know, they're 13 and 14 respectively, and they're trapped because this guy's following them along the bridge,

knowing there's no exit point, you have to go back across the bridge to get out and So just wandering deeper into the woods to get away from them and and Libby says to it's a dead end pretty much So Libby says to Abby is he still there or is he still finds she says yeah, and then Essentially you hear guys down. He goes guys down the hill That's why you said down the hill. Yeah and He goes, guys down the hill. That's why you said down the hill. Yeah. And so, you know, it became the name of the documentary. It became like a really instrumental part because the first down the hill was the only part that was initially released. Then they released guys down the hill. And then eventually this whole video got leaked, which was really hard for the families to be like privy to

Witnessing their child's last. I mean, it's like, you know, not only like just like last words. You don't even know it It's like to hear them Scared. Yeah, I know that your kid was scared. Oh my god, you don't want to hear that again, right? I mean, I don't think I mean I wouldn't know it's not my place even say but Just you know really Really hard it was it was meant to be concealed. So, you know, I It's but it's been viewed probably hundreds of thousands of times by now, you know, so it's like once it's on the internet Mm-hmm. So the Delphi community continues to stand beside Abby's and Libby's families from the time

They first went on those huge volunteer searches to keeping their legacies alive today, their friends and family try to remember the good times. For example, there's this plan to buy bleachers or a scoreboard for the girls' softball team and then this grew into this huge project that was supported by state leaders and the NBA All-Star Game hosts offered $50,000 in a form of a grant to do like a memorial on their behalf, which was really great. And the state even donated 20 acres of land. And so on October 9th, 2021,

the Abbey and Libby Memorial Park opened with a public dedication event. Crowds gathered to enjoy the park, which included a playground and amphitheater. And I just love that they have all of that. They have a softball diamond because they both played softball. They have the amphitheater because they love to perform and play music. And so they have events there.

Abby's grandfather had apparently driven all the way from Michigan to take Abby shopping for equipment when she first signed up to play because he was so excited that she was playing softball. I'm like, oh, that's just sad. I know. And so the fact that the two of them are remembered in this way is really powerful, especially because it was one of their bonding hobbies, like it bonded them together. Apparently they were literally practicing softball in the yard

together the day before they died. And so just to have this kind of as a positive thing now moving forward, like a park and a special safe place, is pretty special. Basically everyone who uses the park and enjoys the facilities is kind of, you know, bringing their legacy forward, connecting with the community that still remembers them. And that is what we know. And it just feels like so mind boggling. Like I feel like I'm...my head is spinning.

And I just dumped all that on you. And I'm sorry I talked so fast, but damn, I was like, I gotta get through like 12 pages here. No, no, no. That was...well done. And I also felt bad because every time you were like, oh, I see, I'm like, no, you don't. Yeah, I didn't. And it's not because of you.

It's because I also didn't see. No, I didn't see. Well, we didn't know. Oh my god. Well And now Now that you've gotten that's why we drink out of the way for the for the week now You can focus on beach to sandy and maybe maybe less horrible things for a second. Oh, that's fun. Yeah Wow What didn't I thank you? You sound like my therapist. How about we look in this direction and yeah, thank you

I needed to hear that because now I'm thinking Yappy hour. Mm-hmm. What are we doing? Yappy hour? I Don't know man. I don't know Looking around maybe we do a show-and-tell today. Oh, I love show-and-tell. Okay, so let's do that. All right Okay, and that's why we drink