And That's Why We Drink - E445 Fish Beneficiaries and Croissant Redemption Societies

Episode Date: August 17, 2025

Welcome to episode 445, where we discuss helping out Em's mortal enemies... fish. On the paranormal side of things, Em takes us to Old Melbourne Gaol (jail spelled the fun way). Then Christine covers the wild, conflicting case of Jade Janks and Tom Merriman. And can we revisit the idea of Em's psychic abilities? ...and that's why we drink! Photo Links:The Melbourne GaolThe Kelly ArmourNed Kelly Head to http://DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code DRINK for 50% off your first order. That’s http://helixsleep.com/drink for 27% Off Sitewide. Exclusive for listeners of And That's Why We Drink. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Grab an Angry Orchard Cider today. Don’t Get Angry. Get Orchard. Please Drink Responsibly. Get this new customer offer and your 3-month Unlimited wireless plan for just $15 a month at http://mintmobile.com/ATWWD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need a job. Oh. Okay. Do I? What? I don't know. I was like, oh shit. What a time to tell me right when we're about to start a ZipRecruiter at?

Oh, I see. Oh, yeah. I need a job. Here's the other thing, though. I'm also, I'm looking for someone to hire. In either circumstance, I've got ZipRecruiter. It is there for me. We really are thankful for ZipRecruiter.

we've had, obviously, like, stellar experience with them. I mean, how do you think we found Eva? You've heard the story a million times, but within a day, we posted and found Eva, and it was that easy. It can be overwhelming to have too many candidates to sort through. But you're in luck. ZipRecruiter now gives you the power to proactively find and connect with the best ones quickly. They do that through their innovative resume database, and right now you can try it for free

at ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. SipRecruiter's resume database uses advanced filtering to quickly hone in on the top candidates for your role, skip the candidate overload, and instead streamlined you're hiring with ZipRecruiter, CY4 out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate within the first day. That's exactly what happened with us, and we could not be more grateful to them. Just go to this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter.com slash drink right now to try it for free. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. there was a um an aquarium that i follow on ticot which like i that is the most you sentence i know well i there is a i was having this moment with myself where i was like i should do something that like for it was kind of the feeling of like i should do something that scares me but i should do something for something i for a cause i don't usually give a shit about oh okay

And I don't really care for aquariums quite a lot because I'm terrified of fish. And then I was like, you know what, if something about fish need my help, you know, and it runs into me. Well, the very first TikTok dog I opened up. And after that was this woman trying to open an aquarium. And she was like, oh, if you could donate, that would be great. And it would be the first ever black on aquarium in the world. So first of all, this is, first of all, let's just step back.

First of all, that's fucking awesome. Do you know the name of it? Sorry, I don't mean to put you in spot. I can. I can't. I know that the person's name is underwater with Aaron. Are we even record? I mean, I know we're recording, but we're on air, right, or not?

Sure. We didn't say go. I guess we never say go. No, I guess people know what we're talking about before we. Yes, we're recording. Hello, everybody. We were going to tell me something. And then it kind of morphed into like, oh, I want to bring the audience in on this conversation.

So I feel like I slowly open the door while you're talking. and I said, uh-huh, uh-huh, and then I gathered everyone in. I just kind of walked into the room when everyone was listening. Yeah, as you were, you know, prophesying or whatever. But, uh, okay, so the aquarium, uh, do you have the name of it? I know that the account, the account is called underwater with Aaron. Underwater with Aaron. Oh, yeah, you said that. Um, wow. Okay, that's cool. What a, like, a wild, uh, journey that was. So you thought to yourself, what do I not like?

I was like oh I should do something I should do something kind for like an area of the world that like I just either I don't care about or like don't give a shit about and I was like that by first I was like well I fucking hate fish and I was like next time and then I made a joke to myself of like well if a fish comes up to me and asks for help okay fine I'll like do a mitzvah Because like, right, right, right, right. Like on what universe would that, you know? But see, now that this is where I'm getting this troubling second underlying thought of, like, okay, we know that when we speak a louder, we're in the same kind of sphere as people, like, we'll get, like, you know, things that feel creepy in the algorithm that are like, oh, because you're on the same Wi-Fi network as someone maybe who is, like, looking for leggings or whatever. But this is the whole new level of you or thinking in your brain I should do,

And it's like, it's like, is it chicken, it's chicken of the egg. Like, does TikTok just know you so well that it sort of knew it before you realized? Or do you really? Or you don't think it like, wow. There must be some sort of subtleties I'm putting out there in the world because the TikTok algorithm has always known me better than I knew myself. So. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

It does, it is known for being like so niche. It's very odd. But anyway, I just, it often happens where someone will mention something and then I'll suddenly get it on TikTok. It's rare that it's so specific. in my head and then it like literally appears and I find that to be like alarming and I also wonder like is that just computers or is that like oh the time the time could you know we're blurring the lines of time okay I think no I think the after after hours where I start to lose it I think our phones

are just constantly listening to us even if they claim that they aren't I mean you're right like if somebody constantly monitored every not even just what we say but like our heart rate and like where we're going and like the tone of our voices like if somebody monitored every second of that which I guess they kind of do or not somebody but like an algorithm or whatever yeah I guess it would fucking know you better than anyone I mean all the way to the point where like I can be like at the dog park I was making a reference of like oh remember that old meme blah blah blah blah and then like within 20 minutes it was on my phone like it's just it's but also but here's where I get caught up though I feel like for you this is so specific and I know your psychic also and so then I wonder, is this kind of a crossover of like, you're almost feeling already what you're about to see before it appears on your feet? Yeah, am I speaking something into existence or am I reeling in the future and making it seem present? Like, is it kind of hand in hands, like the algorithm and you are both arriving at the same

point? Or is it like the algorithm set it up and you're like already sensing what's ahead? I don't know, man. I'm just saying there's a lot to think about. Well, you're one of the only people who thinks I'm psychic. I appreciate you. I know. Eva saw it too.

We did the Creskin's game, the ESP game. I know we've done this before, but on a yappy hour, we could do another psychic test because I feel like I've been practicing and I'm not any better, but you just like showed up in the green room and we're like, triangle, square, purple, bleh. And I was like, seriously, you just sit there and you just know them all. So maybe you just know your own like, maybe you just know your own like feed in advance. Anyway, so I said I would help out the sequarian, which... Not to take away from the fish charity. No, no, no.

But I'm terrified of fish. And anyone who knows me knows that I have like an actual... Like the irony is that she said something of like in her TikTok of like, oh, if you help out, like you can have like free entry for life. And I was like, girl, I'm not going. I'm not stepping foot on that property. What about sharks? What about like octop? Oh, what about octopus?

It would have to be like a penguin or an otter situation. Like... Oh, you really just nod to the... the sea light. It's got to have fur. I'm so sorry. I just... Really? What about an octopus? I know I said that four times, but... I think they're fascinating. I don't want to look at them. They look like slugs to me. Yeah. And I'm sure bug people are also offended.

Hey. They freak me out. I don't know what it is, but I'm like, I'm helping someone in need. So if this means... If this means... By someone, I mean the fucking slug octopus fish. Yeah, the one that you never want to set eyes on. Yeah, I'm sure that you're just doing wonders. Um, I mean... Listen, I'll, I'll, hey, you go.

Can I take M's lifetime pass and go support the aquarium, please, in person? I do, I especially, obviously want to support, like, people of color in STEM, like, trying to, like, do, like, the first of its kind. And, like, so I'm happy to do it, but the fact that it's fish, I'm like, of course I would speak this into existence. To be fair, you asked yourself, what do I not want to do? I know. And then it appeared. So, I know. So, anyway, I hope it's a, a thrilling success.

we applaud your generosity i'm sure at the end of the day your will and test your final will and testament will leave 100% of your belongings to to a fucking fish yeah some fish yeah some fish somewhere um beyond the sea yeah waiting for me and so that i feel like is your fate what about let's let's hear if if you had to help a i keep saying a community it makes me feel so much worse as a person like oh i'm helping a community i don't give a shit about yeah yeah Yeah, you could say that three times. How do I say it? Help.

I don't even understand the concept of what, like, you're saying, so I can't really speak on it. Let me think, like, I've never thought to myself, like, what do I not want to support? And then, like, what's something you just, it wouldn't even occur to you because you just are so removed from that. Like, I, like, I would never think about fish because I don't care about fish. They freak me out. I'm scared of them. Okay, but you do care about fish and you do think about fish because you don't like fish. And I feel like that.

Sure. I guess I'm getting back to the algorithm where it knows that. Are you the algorithm? I feel like I'm trying to be I'm trying to gain all the intel I can I guess that's now the reason why I drink is because I of all the places I was willing to give my money I did not see it going to my worst enemy my mortal enemy so fish I actually did see that not because I'm psychic but because like narratively that would have been the most fun and so I think I saw it I sensed it in that way and I am delighted so so you so did you donate to the the fund you did I donate to

I donated to the labs. Where is it? It's in Atlanta. It's an Atlanta. Okay, cool. Wait, it's not the Atlanta Aquarium. No. Okay, I was like, that thing's huge.

I don't know enough about their story yet. They just came up on my feed, so I have yet to do a little, like, creeping, you know? I think it's in Atlanta. I'm pretty sure. Everyone go follow Underwar with Aaron. And. Did you check out the, oh, it probably doesn't have a charity navigator. They have a GoFundMe in their bio.

um that's kind of as far as i've seen but the the two labs that um they're trying to build are like a filtration system and an animal behavior lab and i said oh yeah that animal behavior one's because animal also implies not just fish it could be like other animal i don't know it doesn't though i know it just implies animal but nice try getting out of it anyway so you were like you were looking for like penguin like penguin uh if there was like an otter lab i would have been like That's for me, yeah. Maybe I would donate to a, hmm, oh, you know what, I don't care about. This is so rude.

Okay, great, finally. A lot of sports. It's not rude that I wasn't going to say a lot of sports at first. I was going to say something specific, and that was going to be rude. So I'm just going to say a lot of sports I don't care about. I wish you were ruder, but I understand. I do too sometimes. Can I have the topic?

No. Basketball? I've already talked about it on. I think it was a yappy hour, but when Eva started archery at six in the morning and I said to myself, you could not pay me, you really couldn't pay me. Like you could not pay me to go to archery. I don't know why. I don't like particularly hate it or anything or have a problem with it. And I'm like, it's the most Eva thing ever. So I'm like thrilled for her. But I'm like, there's something about it that completely turns me off. I've like zero interest in it. And I'm like, so if something we're like, oh, providing accessible. archery lessons to kids. I'd be like, all right, little Eva's of the world. You get to have your archery lessons. You know, that maybe is, sorry, Eva. I was going to be not rude and I just couldn't help myself. That's weird, because archery is like one of the only sports I can tolerate. I know that. And I, and Eva, too. And I, I, I just like, it makes me feel like,

screaming. I don't know why. Like, it's, I must, I probably have to do some shit. shadow work around that's like me in like a tennis or no not tennis um lacrosse well okay yeah i think that but i think that's a more um yeah well i agree okay let's just leave it let's leave it at that i agree perfect why do you drink christine um great question um hmm because i feel like there were okay take your time i'll wait there were there were three things in my mind that came up all at once and i thought which of them should i talk about and then like simultaneously my brain went none of them and i went okay so what else do you have a reason while i kind of let one sink in sure mine was mine i guess now is that angry orchard is what i'm drinking sorry to just to give a little

like uh foreshadowing i am drinking to be angry orchard maybe um you can psychically tell me why i drink after you tell yours um sure um okay well i'm drinking a iced tea oh the palm shout out oh cute uh one of me and alison saves um and why did i drink originally oh man um it's spreading it's friday it's spreading oh i went girl please um it's right you know i i my knee hurts my knee hurts it's gonna be that today um because i tried taking hank out for a walk i must have slept a weird way and all of a sudden my knee is like over there well i mean you did talk about how hank kicked your eyes this morning so like no wonder he probably also kicked me right in the kneecap yeah but other than that i honestly i'm

this is kind of a boring answer but i have to like reset the whole house for the week and i'm not looking forward to that because i was too like i do the trash and all the cleaning and grocery shop and prep the food and like i just have like a whole day to it you like have like a plan for that i like yeah i know i need see this is where i learned about other humans and i'm like oh i see that's how you do it you have like a designated time no i have like a whole day so like today i like i'm trying to write this down i just try to get as many errands done in one day as possible so that way i get six days off versus like constantly feeling like there's a looming past tomorrow wait so you get six days off from everything like from from like any you don't do any other like errands and stuff during those days

not like not like weekly upkeep stuff no oh my gosh wow like laundry and like the groceries suck which like the groceries are fine but it's like the then having a prep everything because I've told you that like I don't just like put the berries in the fridge I like wash all them and put them on containers and stuff it's like a food prep situation which like wow which sounds healthier than it is it's more because I'm lazy and I know if there's berries in the fridge that are dirty I now instead of eating them we'll just leave them there because I don't want to wash them so I have to just do it all at once so I'll actually eat them throughout the day I went blackberry picking I told you that I know but would you eat berries that like

were picked at a farm. I would be aware that they were not washed. Oh, my God. I would eat them. I would eat them and I wouldn't complain. They're way cleaner than ones from the grocery store. Probably. In my head, though, I'd be like, dirt.

A bug might have crawled on this. But I wouldn't say anything. I would just think it. A bug might have crawled on it. Emma. Anyway, how do you handle things? That should be the next thing you donate to. Fucking bugs?

No, I'm done. You already said slugs are octopi, and I'm already mad of it. about it. They're all pretty much the same to me. Oh my God. How do you handle your households? What do you do? I don't handle my household. I'm constantly drowning. That's why I drink. Fair enough. That's why I drink. I'm constantly drowning. What are you drowning about this week? Everything. Um, stomach viruses, laundry. Woff. Vet appointments. Do you have a stomach virus? Car trouble.

No, Leona and Blaze. Car trouble. My house is so dirty. I can't even function. I have had terrible insomnia. I don't know. I could go on. It's not really important.

It's just like hard to keep up. And, you know, it's my fault. I bought a big house. It's hard to maintain. And I bought an old. I guess it's not even that it's big. It's just old. And so like it just needs a lot of work.

And I don't have the bandwidth for that. so I sometimes feel like, like, I literally cried to Blaze the other day, like, I'm the worst housewife ever. It's like, you're not a housewife. Like, you're not a housewife. And I was like, but somebody has to be. Somebody has to like. Someone has to manage the household.

To be fair, Blaze manages anything that really needs to be managed, Blaze manages. So as far as like the yard and like groceries, Blaze does the groceries and Blaze does, you know, a lot of, like we split Leona's stuff half and half and have our designated things. So, but he manages much more of the house because he. He isn't, you know, hasn't been working. He's been a stay-at-home dad. So he does most of that. I just sometimes, like, in my own space, feel like, what am I doing?

Like, I'm supposed to be an adult, you know? And I'm, like, looking at bags of trash, like, spilled drinks. I mean, it's just gross. Like, I'm like... I literally just bought overalls with outer space all over them. So, like, there's no such thing as, like, I have to be an adult. But... And I also bought two Labuboos.

Okay, I'm going to say it. Fuck me. All right. What colors? Which ones? I... So Eva started it, obviously. I didn't have to ask that question.

I know, you knew it. And she gave me one. And I, before I even saw it, and I didn't even know what they were called, I'd been avoiding them like the plague because I thought to myself, I don't even want to, you know how I am. Like, I don't want to get attached. I don't know what this is. I don't want to be spending money on shit. I don't want to get attached. I get to San Diego and Eva went to our show there and hands me this bag and goes, oh, I brought your birthday presents.

And I, like, open them. And I just see the top of the box and I said, I know what it is. And I'm like, how do I know what it is? It must have been subconscious. I was like, I know what this is. And I pull it out and I'm like, oh, my God. And I open it up and I hold him up and it's the green one, Serenity. Okay.

And I'm holding him. And I just apparently said, apparently I said, I knew this would happen. Well, that sounds right. I knew this moment would happen or something like really unhinged. And everyone was like, okay, she's actually making this a lot weirder than it needed to be. And then I just got like, and then they had Little Prince collectibles on the Pop Mart app. And I was like, oh my gosh, they have the Little Prince. I've been very conscientious.

I'm not like just, you know, this is why. We're throwing money at it. But I'm just saying this is one of the things, the consequences of my recent kind of downward feelings. No, this is why I fully believe in FLT culture. In a capital society, you need a fun little treat every now and then. And by every now and then, sometimes that's every couple hours. Um, you clean, fully pesticided berry from the fridge. And you know what? For the next six days, I feel fucking great. Okay. Um, oh my God. And throwing

money at your enemies, the fish. It's, it helps me justify my, my constant FLTs to myself. But no, there's a, I feel you. I mean, I think the grass is always greener about Lake. Yeah. You're having a, a big house you can't maintain. Right. Because I have a literal. shack um and uh i also can't maintain it so no matter what size it is you and be able to like that's a lot of work and your dog's bigger i feel like yeah there are so many different nuances and layers to quote unquote being an adult you know that's like oh then you feel like you're failing in certain areas and you kind of forget to like widen to like oh but you're doing this and this and this you know you're juggling so many things and i think that's true for all

of us really but sometimes it's hard to see yeah it's uh it's always the nooks and crannies too because no matter how much I clean or like do the main stuff then I look like at a baseboard and I'm like oh fuck like there's so many other parts of this house that I am not scrubbing but I'm calling this place clean so does it ever feel finished and then I just like spiral I'm with you I really I feel very gross like sometimes we pay for a cleaner but it's expensive and like they come in clean and I feel bad because I'm like the house is so so then I clean before they get here but then like they can vacuum and stuff but like there's no time to do like baseboards or like dusting the lamps and so then I walk around and I like suddenly notice oh there's like a year's worth of dust on that stairwell and I haven't even like clocked it you know and it's just yeah it's constantly it almost feels like

I'm constantly getting humbled to a point where like it's not you feel like you're you've got it like it's not balancing out like I feel like I'm just constantly being humbled and like the opposite isn't happening so eventually it's just snowballing into like

one big like oh you suck Like it becomes like a feeling like you're failing in something. Yeah, exactly. And then it likes your ego's like, peck, peck, peck, peck, peck, and it just sort of takes over. And you're like, and then you kind of forget the big picture, you know. Yeah. That's a pretty good reason to drink. For someone who said they didn't know what was.

I guess there were just so many things in my brain said, don't talk about any of them. And I said, how about all of them? Yeah, that's fine. We'll leave it at that. But thank you everyone for listening to our long-ass intro. I am sorry. I didn't really, I knew, lately I've been. preparing a reason I drink to avoid this exact spiral.

Well, so I better do that next week. Great. Okay, good luck. I'll try. I'm just going to keep winging it and telling you about my fucked up kneecaps. There's a lot of things that belong in my summer plants these days. An icy sweet tea, maybe a slip and slide if I was 10 years younger and had good knees. Maybe Hank at the dog beach if he wasn't terrified of water. But, you know.

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My story for everybody today is in Australia. And this is the old Melbourne jail. Ooh, haven't you took? Oh, wait. Did we get a listener story about this once? I don't know why. A jail in Australia, I feel like we've discussed. Australia.

Nope. Jail. Okay. So with that for... Just let it... Let it soak. Someone appreciated it. Many did not.

Nobody appreciated it. Least of all me. This is... By the way, jail is spelled the fun way. Gayol, yeah. Gayol. Love it. It's the first jail in Victoria.

In fact, this jail predates Victoria. Because the jail was established in 1839, was built officially in the 1840s. Victoria, it doesn't even become a state, I think, until the 1850s. Oh, okay. Fun fact.

So it is the first jail in Victoria. Although I think Victoria could say we're the first Victoria in the jail. Around the jail. That's true. This place, I thought this was a fun fact. Probably nobody else does. But most of the time, I feel like I'm talking about

buildings made of sandstone. This one's made of blue stone. Whoa. That is a fun. fact what's blue stone it's just like a gray version oh like a blue version different type of stone just blue um so anyway the jail opened in 1845 and uh it housed everyone everyone everyone everyone everyone you say i say i do um including criminals vagrants just generally unhoused people the people with mental health issues because there's nowhere else to put them men women and children i see so it's like a catch-all

for for anybody that's sort of wandering like off the beaten path sort of uh oh yes um very very off the path very off yeah it range from serial killers to like 10 year olds yeah right yeah that who are who are orphaned or something like that's yes that's fucking dark okay um kids as young as 10 could be incarcerated here oh my god but it doesn't stop there because if you were younger than 10 and you were like you know someone you that was watching you just went to to you. Yeah, it was basically jailed daycare. So if you were, yeah, as young as 10, you could be incarcerated. Other people just lived here because their mother did and they would have otherwise been

unhoused. Oh, that's sad. And the full loop of that is like, if they don't go with their mom, they'll be unhoused. But if they're unhoused, they'll end up in jail and be arrested on their own for vagrancy. So if anything... Or they go to like an orphanage that's, you know, I don't think there was an orphanage. Oh, no. Oh, right. Okay. So that they just end up back there, basically. Yeah. So it was almost like, Either way you're going to end up here, but one is, like, as a guest or the other is, like, we arrest you for vagrancy because there's no else to go. Right. Like, you're either a plus one to your mother or you're like your own guest with your own table card. That's been pre-printed. Okay, got it. Exactly.

Babies under a year had to be here with their incarcerated mothers. Otherwise, there was nowhere to put them. And, of course, if you're a mother, you can't just be an inmate. You still have to be a mother. because I mean, I guess that's probably a good thing, though. I mean, it's better than saying you're not allowed to have your baby in jail. I assume it's like you just make the best of it. And that's probably the view that they took of like, well, at least I'm with my baby. I would think you, yeah, I would think that would be almost like a positive, yeah. Yeah, I would be nervous so about like, what if someone tries to, like, hurt the baby or something.

Like, again, where would the baby go? Like some, yeah, who knows where. And if you're like, obviously breastfeeding back then, you know, or whatever, I feel like that. would be the more kind approach. But I know it probably was not out of kindness, but, you know. I actually, I don't have this in my notes. So I'm paraphrasing what I read about it. But to answer your questions, like, where would the babies go either other way?

And in another circumstance, there were baby farmers. Did you know about this? Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so. Apparently there were people that, like, you could pay to, like, watch your kids while you were gone, like, almost like a, but one of the, the people who was a baby farmer in the area ended up like killing a bunch of the kids. Because like that is a perfectly

set up solution for somebody who's sick like that. So then the baby farmer ended up in this jail anyway. So. No. Oh my God. This is really fucked. Uh, the youngest, the youngest kid on record who was actually incarcerated here, even though they say the law was 10 and older, uh, his name was Michael. He was three. Oh.

So imagine Leona being arrested. I won't actually think so. For being idle, aka he was walking down the street by himself and they assumed he just be safer in jail. So to give... What's going on? Like, did they... It's like when cops get like a mandatory polo, you know, like ticket ratio or whatever

that there's, or allotment. It's like, are they just like trying to find people? A quota. Thank you to like fill the jail. I don't understand. Yeah. I don't... And who wants to watch a three-year-old, like...

Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. And apparently he, like, I mean, he's by himself, too. It's not like, I mean, this is very, like, apropodal-like people of all ages being arrested right now for no reason. But, yeah, so serial killers and children all under one roof. And a women's and thus children's wing wouldn't even be opened for, like, another 15 years.

So they were just all together. Mixed up. And that also means for the first 15 years. years, inmates were here during active construction because there was, they were constantly having to expand as soon as they opened the place they had to constantly expand because they kept realizing it was overcrowded because they probably didn't take into consideration the fact that they would be arresting everybody all the time. Yeah, because why would they take that into consideration? It's not a normal thing to do. Like it also as an architect though, can you imagine

thinking like, okay, this is the maximum capacity. So don't arrest any more people from this. And they're like, well, we added a three-year-old. Does that count? Yeah. What the fuck? Within the first five years of the prison being opened or the jail being opened, they had to expand already. Within five years, it was overcrowded. Jesus. And then it was- I mean, you're saying there's no orphanage, there's no safe options. Like, clearly they're just, yeah, dumping everyone there. This is also a reminder to the USA that it would be really lovely if we redistributed funds so that way there could be multiple places to house people that need help for different reasons. Well, I think just saying, this is a- Yeah, but I think it's a little too late for that sentiment nowadays, but I mean, maybe when we kind of, you know, stop the world from burning.

If you'd like an example outside of our country on like what it could look like if we didn't, then everyone gets arrested and goes to the same fucking place. And then you have to constantly keep expanding because people just keep getting lasted. So the jail wasn't officially completed until 1864 and they started putting people in there in 1845. So almost 20 years later was construction officially done. And when it was done, the jail took up an entire city block. Was it one where they had to like build it themselves, the inmates? I didn't see anything about that, but I also wondered. But I didn't see anything about that.

A city block, Jesus. The jail had, quote, multiple yards, a hospital, a chapel, a bathhouse, why a bathhouse, and housing for the staff. I guess bathhouse. house to take a bath. Yeah, it didn't occur to me that it was for all of them. Why a bath house? It didn't occur to me.

It's like the 1800s in the bathroom, but it would be separate. Didn't occur to me. As for the conditions there from the start, they were not very good, as you can already guess. It was very unsanitary. There was a lot of illness. We'll put a chapel in, but like we're also going to treat you like total shit. Well, also paraphrasing here, but religion was like one of their big things there where

the only thing allowed in a lot of the cells was a Bible. And as you'll see later, it's like one of their things that they really promoted here was isolation because they thought that that would keep your thoughts pure. This place also promoted corporal punishment with a cat of nine tails.

That goes hand in hand with the whole religious thing, I think. Apparently, there was a maximum punishment for up to 50 lashings. Jesus. Plus salt on the wounds. I mean And I guess a lot of people

Before they could even finish the 50 They would pass out from the pain And I don't Apparently the lashings would either still continue While you're passed out Or they'd wait for you to wake up And then continue Something horrible

Something very sick Um The cells were incredibly small There was no temperature regulation Because it was the 1850s So no matter what the temperature was Everyone was suffering in the heat In the cold

Many Yeah there would be rare I mean oh that makes me like like unless they built it right for the drafts to come in and hit you in the right space and I'm sure that they wouldn't spend the time it's not like a tuberculosis sword

where they're like intentionally trying to make it you know comfort or like healing or whatever the fuck well also with their like constant expanding I don't even know if they're thinking about like where the windows go yeah and I actually just answered my own question because the next thing I was

going to mention is that one of the things this jail also was proud of was the fact that they had a lot of sensory deprivation rooms which means no windows sensory deprivation like to keep them isolated and so they had I think it was like

three meters thick walls in some areas that had no windows nothing it was just a tiny little square with sometimes a bed a lot of times you just slept on the floor and they'd give you a Bible that was kind of it they'd give you a Bible and no windows, so how the fuck are you even supposed to read the Bible? Excellent question.

You just thought some prayers. I don't know. They're not giving you candles, I'm sure. No, that's actually a great question. I think maybe there's a window like up here where there's a little light. That's so thoughtful of them. I know. Okay, so where were we?

The conditions are terrible. Cat and Nine Tails. People are suffering. Oh, this is a fun one. I only saw this on one source. But apparently there was a lot of people who, were suffering from like withdrawals when they would be incarcerated and so the jail had a detoxing protocol oh for god's sake where basically this is a quote the inmates would quote get doused with

cold water and then they would get sewn into a blanket next they would be brought outside with a hood over their face and they would be left out in the blistering sun for hours then they would be forced to vomit to get everything out of their system and last they would be covered with leeches to get all the toxins out of their blood Jesus fuck like what kind of sicko thought that was actually going to be a healing thing that's so like drain somebody like entirely until like they're already so weak that's sick um those with really really really bad charges this is where I start telling more about like the layout of the jail yeah because instead of it just being like a serial killer bunking with a three-year-olds.

They had different tears based on what floor you were on. So at the very bottom, this is where most people started their time in the jail. Or if you had a really bad charge, you would stay here pretty much the entire time. It was pretty much solitary confinement cells. It was super isolated. You had no privileges, including like a bed or like blankets. You probably had the worst version of the food. You got one hour of outdoor time.

And 23 hours, you were in your cell. You couldn't. And this goes for the entire jail. They had a belief system in this isolation thing, like to a whole extreme, where they had all of their inmates, if they ever left their cells, wearing calico hoods, or like, they called them silent masks. Or basically, they were canvas hoods over their face where you couldn't see them. Nobody was allowed to speak to each other.

So that way nobody could get to recognize. each other and bond or socialize in any way. So imagine you're locked up for like five years and you can't see another person's face. You're just deprived from any sort of like normal interact social. Oh, that's sick. And like as if that's going to make anyone better, you know what I mean? Like as if you're going to leave there and be like, you're right, I am on a better path now. I know.

I know. I know. There were minimal baths for people on the first floor. you just barely had anything it was just like kind of you're just sitting there and starving and going slowly crazy and then the best you could hope for is a tier higher where maybe the conditions are better but you're still not speaking to anybody like you never see another person or talk to another person um so with good enough behavior you could literally climb the ranks to a higher floor have a better experience here where like you'll get a blanket for once or like you could do

labor like manual labor so they have you kind of like trying to turn trying to gain rewards. But it at least kills time, you know? It's like, I think in that situation, I'd be like,

sure, exploit the shit out of me for labor because at least I'm doing something. Like, I don't even know what the better of the two is. It just sounds awful.

I mean, yeah, I guess it's all bad. Um, the men were apparently doing more manual, manual labor. The women were, of course,

doing like sewing uniforms and things like that, which it's just crazy. It's just insanity. Um, once you earned your, place on the top floor which was the third floor that was where people with minor crimes would go um i guess okay interesting so the so the few i mean i know you already said the bottom was like the worst offenders but i'm kind of surprised they didn't put them like up in the top i know i wonder

but maybe i don't sorry he just rang the bell i don't know if he needed to go outside no he's he has a bell he does oh he's so smart i know we're we're teaching him the buttons too to talk um anyway uh where were we oh yeah the i think the third floor was like for minor crimes because how often are the guards on the third floor compared to like the lobby in my mind maybe they need to like keep their eyes it's like yeah yeah you'd have like more security on them yeah yeah you can probably like get away with more on the third floor and also on the third floor they did allow people to share cells instead of solitary um i think they were still wearing the masks all the time though when you say like they allowed them to share cells you mean like

they got to choose or like oh you mean they just like partner people up good question um i think the the top floor they were cells where like you had roommates oh okay but i think you still couldn't see people's faces if you could like you still couldn't speak there was some weird rule where you really couldn't socialize. Like the antisocial rule. Okay. And also on the third floor was a set of the gallows, of course. Of course. On the, wait, on the third floor?

Yeah. So even though you, once you make it up to the third floor and you're like, oh, this isn't so bad, you still have to hear people hanging all the time. Why is it inside? Is that normal? They had a makeshift version outside for the first few. Then they brought it inside. They also have a yard version.

I don't totally know what the... Yikes. I don't know why they would use one over the other at different times, but they had an indoor one. And again, remember, like, the people who are on death row, like, they're not allowed to speak or anything. So you wouldn't hear anything. You would just hear someone walking up the steps, and then you would just hear something hang. Like, I mean, yeah. And that's the privilege you get for being on the floor.

Right. And that's, like, the best floor to be on. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes, yeah. What's the second floor? The second floor was just, like, middle ground. you're not you're like trying to get to the third floor i guess so like you have a blanket and that's

like the only difference it seems like yish um and pretty much the rooms like they had like uh even the ones with multiple people in the cells there was just like a bucket for a toilet like i mean it was just really nasty too yeah yeah um speaking of the gallows the executions here were always by hanging um and then there was a law at the time where if you were hanged in a prison then you also had to be buried on that property. I don't know how that works. Like, I don't know if, like, you can sign something and, like, have your relative come be buried with the rest of the family.

I doubt it if you're, like, a prisoner or whatever. I bet they just give final say. But so, 133 people were hanged here. And that was from the 1850s to the 1840s to the 1920s. 133, you said? 133 in, like, 80 years. um three of them were women and uh almost all the executions were for murder although um a couple of them were for attempted murder robberies assault and then one person was a manslaughter by arson the hangman here's an extra fucked up mental thing the hangman for these executions was usually another inmate no i was afraid he'd say that who was paid to do

who was paid to disguise themselves so nobody would know which inmate was doing it. It was. Which, like, I don't know why you need the disguise if everyone's already wearing hoods all the time. But anyway, but so if you, for some reason, bonded with somebody and you find out you have to hang them. They probably had to wear, like, an executioner's, like, robe thing. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so, this is all twisted. I mean, do you think they were, like, psychopaths who were like, sure, I'll do it if you're paying me? So, the next thing I was going to say is that because. it was just a random inmate if they didn't like you for some reason they could control how longer short the rope was aka how swiftly or slowly you would die and I guess it was a little reductive to say if you're a psychopath I mean I think that there would be a lot more nuance to yeah prison like uh well relationships and like conflict and yikes and also I wonder like is that something that someone on like the bottom level and solitaire confinement is a

allowed to do or is this like a quote perk you get when you rise up in the ranks and they're paying them for it yeah you said oh my god i mean probably pennies or something but yeah yeah this is creepy to have other prisoners do the do they get to volunteer or like are they assigned i think they're assigned or maybe maybe once you hit that second floor and you're allowed to like work and do manual labor maybe that's just one of the jobs you get to like sign up for it um i think you, they are assigned certain people. I don't think they get to pick who they kill, because that sounds like wild. I was going to say

that feels like a recipe for disaster, but again, it feels like they're doing a whole social experiment or anti-social experiment, so. There was one hangman who was assigned to execute one of the three women, and he like lost his mind. He like couldn't wrap his head around

killing a woman. And so he slit his own throat while in his own cell. See, but this is where I'm saying I think there's some sort of fucked up shit going on like politics wise behind the scenes because like obviously if he's like I don't want to do that and they're like you have

to you know yeah some notable people that were executed here was Elizabeth Scott who was the first woman to be executed in Victoria and a lot of rumors suggest that she actually was innocent oh geez another is a guy

named Frederick Bailey Deeming who not only killed his wife but his four children and then his next wife. Oh. And his, um, crimes were so brutal. He was actually later suspected to be Jack the Ripper. Holy shit. Another guy was Colin Ross.

This one sad. He, uh, he, uh, he, this one's sad. This one sad. Colin Ross was in jail for a murder, um, that he was accused of. But, uh, he kept saying he was innocent. In fact, he started writing letters at, asking for help to get exonerated and then throwing the letters over the jail walls, hoping someone would, like, help him out.

And he was hanged anyway, and only in the 90s did forensics prove that he was innocent. That's, yeah. And he was pardoned, like, after death in the 2000s. Thanks. Yeah. And then for a while, the jail actually had the pencil on display that he would use to write the letters asking for help. Oh, boy. I know. Another person who was executed here, his name was Ned Kelly. In Australia, this guy is apparently like Robin Hood.

I've never heard his name. It's so familiar that I listen to Case File. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but that's an Australian show. So maybe that's why. What's his name, Ned something? Ned Kelly. Don't look him up yet. Okay, I won't.

I won't. He is kind of hot. I'll tell you that. Oh, I was not expecting that for you. when you, not blind, I'm gay, I'm not blind. He, uh, is apparently very iconic for being like a good boy, bad boy, but he was like also a killer. So some people are like, he's a literal killer, but other people are like, ah, but I'm kind

of like here for like his reasons. Yeah. Okay. Uh, he was part of this little gang of outlaws. And so he ended up being arrested during a shootout where, um, I think three police officers were killed. I don't know, he had, he had killed. three police officers in a different incident and then was on the run and then got caught during

this shootout later um and in this shootout him and his gang of outlaws um they made uh their own metal armor to wear it's very like early phase iron man kind of suit like it's just primitive yeah like if so now if you want to look him up if you type in ned kelly um metal armor or Mad Kelly's body armor. He made... Oh, yeah, I've seen that kind of... The Kelly gang, yes, yes, yes, I've seen that picture. It's disturbing.

It's like a horror movie. He made these suits of armor for him and his friends for this shootout. He knew the show it was going to happen and he wanted to survive. And they actually did make him bulletproof and the parts that were covering him. But his full shoulder to hands and then hips to toes were not covered. and so in this shootout he ended up bleeding quite a lot and that's how they were able to arrest him um fun fact that suit is now at the state library victoria if you want to go see it it looks like a bucket with like a slit in the eyes and like these kind of rudimentary like metal it's creepy it's creepy it's creepy he tried to get away from this shootout um the parts of him that were covered did work, but he ends up

getting arrested anyway. He's extremely handsome. Right? He's like wildly hot. Well, okay, so when you said like he's hot, to be fair, I've never, to my knowledge, never heard you call a man hot. I've heard you call a man like handsome or like, oh, he's good looking or tall, dark him. I've never heard you say hot, so I was like taken aback

by that. When I finally said it though, was I right? I mean, you were right. At least based on this picture, I have. The one with the beard and the swoopy hair? Yeah, they the beard and the hair like he looks like he's a hipster in nowadays times yeah he would fit in today if he time traveled very swarthy yeah swarthy pristine um there are very few men i will say are like wildly high very few far between which means if you're on the list you should be so honored i will say we only have one picture so those of you know more you know let us know if

we're off base but that one picture is a pretty pretty striking it's certainly a picture one of his relatives had framed somewhere. Like I would frame that in my house. Not really. I don't know who he is. And I would do some research. But you kind of wish it was one of the tin types in your in your box. Yeah, it would be cool. Yeah. I would be like, who's this guy? Anyway. So can you imagine if you went digging through your box of 10 types? And then you found that picture. And I was like, that's Ned Kelly. Yeah. But you and I would be like, no, I'd be like, that's Ned Kelly. And you'd be like, no. And I'd be like, is it Jude Law? And you'd be like, no. And I'd be just like completely wrong about the whole thing. So I already see how. that would go well so ned kelly was arrested he ended up staying apparently in cell 113 case people care about that um and he ended up being executed um his final words notoriously are such as life however uh there is some debate on whether those were his last words or after the guard said like you're ready like to die um apparently he said ah well i suppose

I mean class act I know I mean it's a classy way to go I again I don't know who this guy is please don't take my word to mean anything I don't yeah we know nothing about him over here please don't don't take that word for to mean anything except what a what a uh it's kind of a cool way to it's a cool last line yeah and uh fun fact about him he was apparently so iconic that there have been movies and TV shows about him and in the scenes where he has where like the Ned Kelly of the movie is executed it was films at the jail oh goodness gracious like like I don't know if it was on the exact spot where he literally died because that feels fucking crazy but I mean it it feels even just wild to even go there and do it on the property just to do it if I mean I guess if you're like oh the setting is exactly the right setting but like imagine being the actor it's I was about to say, as the actor, I'd be like, this feels fucked up. Also, as a director, I would be like, stay in your lane director.

Like, obviously, you don't need to tell me how this goes down. Like, it's literally happened right here. Oy, yoy, yoy. Another fun fact about Ned is that when he was sentenced to death, apparently he told the court, I'll see you there. And within, like, three weeks, the judge that sentenced him, like, was dead. like within like within like 20 days or something so he like almost cursed him. I know that those stories are usually just probably like lore or like coincidence,

but they get me every time. Every time they get me. Well after he died. That happened at the Whaley house, right? I think so. Yeah. Was it the Whaley house somewhere where like Yankee Jim swore vent or I don't know. I can't remember what I'm, what, which example I'm thinking of.

Anyway. Well, after he died a death mask. was made of him, which is essentially a cast or a bust of his head. But it's like a proper cast molding of his head before you guys. Right, like a plaster of Paris type thing. Yes, that's exactly right. But they were called death masks, which is so much more intense. And they did this for a lot of the people that were executed there.

So if you go there to this day, they have the death masks of everyone that they executed, like lined up or in different rooms. Imagine being like the one to like do the fucking paper machet of like, all the people you like on a dead body yeah it's just a wild concept that that would be your job you know these uh death masks were actually used for a few reasons one was to put them on display yikes but i guess as a way to like serve i don't know what purpose it served i'm guessing it was like don't be like them you know who's been here the hall of shame type thing yeah the other reason is because at the time phrenology was a big thing right um for those who don't know

Phrenology is a pseudoscience where basically they thought that their, that personality traits are believed to sit in the same place on everyone's cranium. So they could make a map and touch your head and feel like the the natural bumps and nooks and crannies on your head. They would assume that meant you had more or less of certain personality traits. Like they, they believe they could like identify disorders and like all sorts of things. Yeah. Yeah. So doctors could feel the bumps and decide if you were more or less gifted and this by the way I used to like think phrenology was so fascinating not as something that I believed in but like I just loved the like it was just like a cool story I was um apparently not fully informed on all of it it is a wildly racist situation

um back then phrenology was used to justify why people of color were inferior to white people it justified a lot of white supremacy and a lot of people would use it to prove why we should be colonizing and enslaving other people because the bumps on their heads suggested that they were dumber or or had worse morals or yeah like more primitive quote unquote like I mean to say they were early lesser humans you know to like other them yeah it was a huge part of or is probably still I don't know but was a huge part of them um eugenics, sorry Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, and so at the time, though, it was the reason they had the death masks was that way, it was almost like to do an autopsy on a person, or you know how they'll still

study, like, serial killers' brains. It was... Oh, sure. It was to study their heads to see if we could figure out personality traits about them so we could predict future criminals. So creepy. So anyway, those are some of the people executed there, but in 1870, the jail

decided that they were finally going to close and relocate Prisoners, that did not include, or that was not just the living prisoners. They also wanted to enter and re- bury the bodies on the property to other cemeteries. Oh, okay. Wait, year was it? 1870. Okay, okay. Oh, so not very long after.

No, only like 30 years, pretty much. Okay. And so even though they decided that they were going to slowly discontinue the prison and relocate everyone, It took them like 50 years to do it. Wow. They decided this in 1870, and the place didn't officially close until the 1920s. Geez. Were people still in there during that time?

I think so. Yeah. Okay. I think they were just slowly moving kind of chunk by chunk. Okay. So bodies were taken out and reburied at another prison cemetery, including Ned Kelly. And a few years later, most of it was taken over by now a university. Other parts of it were a military prison during World War II.

It was police storage. After World War II, the jail joined the heritage register and is now a protected landmark. In the 70s, it became a museum about the jail. And other parts of it are still owned by the university, but the main part is a museum people can go see. That's when they put the pencil in there. That's when they put the pencil in there. 140,000 annual visitors, apparently, go to this museum. it displays many of the death masks a replica of Ned Kelly's Iron Man suit which is what I'm calling it

it is so creep I don't know I think they must have used it in some horror movie or something like yeah oh it reminds me it's kind of like Monty Python the just a flesh run it does look like that you're right it does look like the Monty Python I think in the images I saw that looked kind of like the Zodiac killer pictures I think that's where I'm going I think it reminds me a little bit of the Zodiac's outfit like the slit in the eyes I think that's where I'm getting like like hebi-jeebies yeah um and it also it does look like what if I thought it really does I think actually this replica I think you're allowed to like wear it like put it on for a picture or something thanks um if only for germs no thanks either that or I watched a YouTuber be like so

fucking disrespectful to like a display this is our this is our lockdown in the put it on yeah so anyway they have that masks they have the iron man suit they have um shackles they have a flogging rack that was used there the gallows and its trapdoor is still there jesus they also have recreations of some of the cells they have the um silent masks or the face coverings but they used to not talk to each other um they also uh have some of the sensory deprivation punishment cells oh and you can go in there i don't know if you can go in there but they you can see it from above and you can look into it and like sense what it would have been that's which means it was essentially the dungeon and you could look down into

the dungeon yeah that's chilling another thing they uh once had here was allegedly ned kelly's fucking skull um it was said to have been removed and put on display uh during the reburial that they like uh you don't need this do you and yeah and then used it for the museum am I guess it ended up being stolen from the museum and it was returned in 2009 by this guy who was like don't ask questions I'm just returning it I don't want you to know how I have this wow and they were like no questions asked bring it back pretty much they ended up testing the skull to make sure to make sure that the he didn't like bring in a random skull and for end up to be wild but okay there's actually two missing skulls now what now who's this guy yeah so they tested it and

it was the skull that was once in the in the ground here that was missing but it was never Ned's skull what so apparently Ned was never touched this was the skull of a different body someone else's head and said it was him yes that's fucked up I mean of course it's fucked up it's all fucked up but like what a bizarre twist and I didn't know this but I guess when bodies would I don't know once you got to the skull of the body that was executed there they would carve the initials into the skull and so the skull always had E.K as the initials in it and his name was Edward Kelly. Fun fact, Ned is a

nickname of Edward. Blows my mind every time. Not Edward. Not Edward. So they thought oh, E.K. Edward Kelly must be him. Since it wasn't him, based on forensics, it has to be this other guy that was executed there named Ernest Knox because he was the only other one executed who had E.K. carved into his skull. Oh, shit.

I'm glad they were at least able to narrow it down to one other person. That's like a lucky happen. instance, I suppose. And they ended up confirming with DNA that Ned is buried properly at the other prison. Did they return the head to the right grave? I don't know what happened there. But you know what's weird is that they looked at the bottom of it, at the bottom of the skull, and they can tell that it was sawed off of a skeleton.

So like someone really took this thing. Intentionally. Yeah. Yikes. Like, not, I mean, obviously intentionally, but like. I don't know where. it is now though i don't know where it is now but it's not at the museum anymore no questions asked okay now i'm so sorry there's so long but now onto the ghosts the main thing people experience is

sounds there's cell door slamming there's footsteps there's wardens keys jingling there's shackles there's people talking and shouting which is ironic because they couldn't talk in life um people also regularly hear a woman crying and empty halls and the cry gets louder and louder and then you turn around no one's there that's that's thoughts be elizabeth the woman who was maybe innocent and the first woman executed in victoria um some say that they can hear her even asking for help or they can feel her whispering to them in their ear oh that's like scary because it feels like she's still trapped there or whatever i don't like that that's sad even the guards of the time when this was a prison or when this was a jail they would say that they'd hear weird things and feel a dread a

would feel dread in the air and hear whispers in their ears of people asking for help. The help thing is really unsettling. Another common experience here is in sensing residual feelings. People experience a lot of deep sorrow, a lot of grief, a lot of nausea. Yeah, that's where I'm out by. Some people would even faint in the cells, and I feel like that's maybe, like, if people died by suicide, maybe you're, like, feeling them passing on in some way. people also feel faint when they see

Ned Kelly's death mask Is it actually Oh no not his skull His death mask Okay Because I was like is that even his Okay People say there's something really off about it

And that the eyes of it will follow you Oh Oh Another thing that happens Is that cameras If they capture something really spooky Apparently the footage will delete itself I love that

Unlike some situations or places Where like the image will just be all black girl will never show up the ghosts are like shit shit shit delete we we missed our chance to block it now let's delete it yeah um it's common for people to see apparitions through the building many there are many many shadow figures lurking inside the cells there's apparitions of the wardens um there is another spirit of a man in a long coat patrolling the area and they think that's one of the higher rep guards a long coat is like not good not cute no that also tells you that it was cold as shit in there and nobody else who had, they didn't have a blanket.

They're wearing like long trench coats and they're, they're just to the elements. Yeah, especially with babies in there. Like, what the fuck? Um, shadows on the wall seem to move on their own or disappear and then reappear in other cells. Bye. I know. So it's like now they're shouting.

Now they're walking through the, they're doing all the things they couldn't do. Yeah. They were prisoners. Darding around, probably socializing. There's also a lady in blue. Different. Okay. Blue Stone.

Lady in Blue. she's the it girl i know we're a lot of something she i look that's australia you know flipping it on its head finally something different um lady in blue she glides down the halls but she's oddly quiet about it there's an eeriness to her oddly quiet about it are they sometimes not quiet about gliding down the halls if i were trying to glide down anything you'd hear me going okay well yes but you're also not a spectral entity with no mass so i like i'm like what is i mean maybe usually you hear like a swishing sound i don't Fair enough. Well, she appears to have no expression on her face, which makes it even creepier.

I don't like that. The worst ones visually are these dark outlines of people hanging out in the doorways. And what's creepy about them is that it looks like they have rotting skin coming off of their skeletons. So it's like a fucking zombie looking thing. Oh, that's, this feels like really just heavy, dark, like shadow figurines. energy it's one thing to be first of all in a haunted jail then at night then you see a shadow in a cell and then you look over and it's actually dripping rotting skin it's like and it's looking at you saying help oh and suddenly it's asking you for help or they're there it's really unsettling

the gallows are said to be the worst energy on the property i wonder why and apparitions of inmates are seen by the area. People have felt someone staring at them here. They can hear voices muttering. They can hear crying. Some have claims to have been shoved here. Some have seen an apparition lingering here that vanishes if you approach it. Some feel themselves losing air and struggling to breathe here.

They have also said that they feel something pulling them downward as if the trap door is opening underneath their feet. Oh, oh, oh. Other people have said that the floor for the ground seems to move on its own and sway as if it's a trapdoor. Oh. And one apparition of a guard near the gallows is said to come up to people's ears and whisper to jump. Holy shit. Interestingly, there used to be other apparitions seen in the yard.

But after the reburials, they aren't there anymore. Which means they're in another prison cemetery. well maybe it means they've moved on now they're maybe their souls are at rest i don't know let's let's look at it the most positive way uh sorry the i need a moment to um kind of like internalize and like integrate what you just said to me so yeah you take a chunk of your iced let me think about jump i didn't enjoy that part that was crazy that was actually i would say i am grateful for my three a m researching because i didn't see that anywhere and I wouldn't have if I didn't stamp until three in the morning.

And I couldn't stop researching this. Well, aren't you glad you got to see that at three in the morning? I heard it on one of the videos I was watching and I went, oh, thank God. Like, I'm so glad I have that now. Just in time for the witching hour. But there are moments where I'm like, had I not gotten so hyper fixated on this? Yeah. I wouldn't have known that that happens.

That's why I love doing this show too because it's like I listen to so many different podcasts and everybody kind of has their own take obviously and that's why I love it, even different, even the same story. but like when you know we can i love being able to dig in and like find details that other people wouldn't really like care about but it's like interesting to us i guess or like i'd want to share it with you yeah i don't know something fun about that i would want to know about that and also if i'm ever going to go there i want to be warned that like i might hear that you know i mean i'll be honest oh that's what i was going to say uh but then you caught me off guard with the jump thing and i got totally uh i don't know blindsided but um the thing i was going to say is that i don't think

I could be ever talked into going there. Like, I don't say that lightly because there are many places. I mean, I've been that we've been to Sally House. We've been to Bobby Mackey's where I didn't want to go at first. Like, I've been places where I've thought, I don't want to go there. I think this is one. It's the, it's the, like, absorbing the emotions and stuff that I, like, I doesn't, I, it's really, it's hard enough for me to get other people's emotions, like, off of me,

let alone being, like, you know, attacked by unseen spiritual energy. here's a question what's a scarier situation for you being in a keep in mind this place does look a lot like alcatraz would you prefer going into a horribly haunted has this background kind of jail where it's like weirdly small or weirdly big

because they're both scary in different ways oh okay because I think I would talk myself even if I don't think it's a ghost I would talk myself into like oh someone else is on the property like I think I'd be scared that like someone else was like a like a burglar like i think i would talk myself into the true crime aspect of like maybe i'm not alone if i heard something i don't i feel like with how spooky like because some places are so big it feels like overwhelmingly spooky but when it's small it's like really concentrated and everything right right every room feels creepy versus like oh maybe there's

no escaping it yeah yeah and this this one apparently is a smaller jail than other jails just a whole city block that's all just a whole city block but keep in mind they when they started closing down a lot of it a lot of it went to a university a lot of it became storage well and like a city block nowadays i mean you see these these prisons and they're these massive complexes so yeah i guess it's really not that big i think now there's only one like the museum itself and um if you were to go visit it's only one of the wings now or one of the cell blocks it's like it's only a fraction of what it used to be because a lot of it got turned into something else right but um anyway so that's yeah that's a horrible area the gallows is awful in the jail this is this one

really freaks me out is that some people have felt something like using force on them but usually you would think oh they're they're pushing me or shoving me but at this jail people feel like something's pulling them into rooms like yanking them like into a cell or something yeah i guess so yeah buy, buy, buy, buy, bye, bye, bye. Others have sworn that they were locked inside a cell despite the door having no locks on it at all. Okay. One person on Reddit said that they had a school field trip here, and they were, I know, can you imagine? And they were locked in a room, or they went into one of the cells and closed the door behind them.

The door had no locks. It was like super easy, breezy to open and close, but as soon as they closed it, they could not get out to say they're like, They were struggling and yanking on that thing and ripping at it and nothing was happening. They were checking all over to see if there were any locks that could have accidentally. And there was no reason for this thing to be locked. They started calling for help. And eventually they assumed it was a ghost. And they basically said, like, yo, I'm just a fucking kid.

Like, let me out. And the door opened by itself. Okay. So someone had a little bit of a conscience. Mm-hmm. And they, uh, he ended up. Because they were like, yeah, kids are allowed. Didn't you know?

Don't you know we house kids here? Oh, they're probably like, you actually belong on the third floor. Get yourself up there. Well, I not only did the door open by itself, but he tested the door again and it was just like super wiggly and there's just no way to lock. Yeah, that's, yeah. And he ended up going over to his classmates and being like, why didn't anybody help me? Like, I was locked in this room or like maybe I think he thought that some of his friends

thought it was funny and were like holding the door or something. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or locked it for, like, locked it to keep him in. And the whole field trip was like, we were looking for you and we couldn't find you. See, yeah. And you know, like, these cells have, like, you could probably hear someone screaming from inside, I assume. Like, I mean, I don't know that for a fact, but. I wonder if they put, um, it's able to put an air over people where like it's silent like it used to be.

Well, is this one of the solitary cells or is this like, I don't know, just a cell. Oh, okay. Because it maybe it was sound. I don't know. Um, the most active room in the jail, which I'm going to end on is, uh, cell 17. So there was a fire, apparently, that got rid of a lot of documentation that would have told us. what happened in each of these cells and all who died and everything. So we don't really know the history of what happened in each individual cell.

But this place is called the epicenter of activity of the jail. And a lot of videos I watch show you like what it looks like in there. And it absolutely looks like a place that is, it's nothing but haunted. One woman tried to leave the cell one time and she felt some. Oh, it's a cell. Right. Sorry. I was like, what room?

Oh, sorry. Cell 17. No, yeah, you said it. 17, okay. apparently it's like really like unassuming it's like on a random part of the second floor like it's like not it doesn't look any different

than any other cell but for some reason this one's fucking wild weird one woman felt a felt her own necklace unlatch off of her when she was wearing it like something grabbed her neck and when she looked down at the ground her necklace had fallen off like pickpocketing yeah maybe

and one former employee said that there's a quote from them highly trained dogs start acting erratically refuse to enter and have to be taken outside to calm down people have said cell yeah forget it i don't know i don't like that that's probably where the portal is people have said it's very uncomfortable in there they don't go in there alone they probably use the buddy system um they say that the cell feels like someone is in there with them they feel fingers touching them and there's a quote bone chilling cold to it yeah people hear raspy breathing in there, they also feel like the air is leaving the room and they start suffocating

as if they're dying. Some have seen so many shadows at once in that cell that they thought the cell was actually full of people on a tour and when they looked again, it was totally empty. People will get grabbed in there, scratched, feel a weird pressure on their chest and they will feel a hand on their throat choking them. One source said that men, whenever they go in there, feel like they're being shoved out of the room while the women feel like they're being trapped in the room. And they're trapped or they're unable to leave for some reason.

But the men are getting kicked out. Yeah, it just sounds really awful. Apparently their shadows just lurk all over the walls. You hear voices in there. It's just a really ominous feeling. It almost feels like that's where everyone, all the spirits were almost like corralled. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe it was like a... Do you think there's like a ghost? You know how you hear sometime? Maybe this is a stretch. but you know how you hear sometimes of like, oh, there's one spirit that's stronger or more evil that's like holding them hostage in a way. Yeah. You wonder if there's some sort of like locking them in this space and I don't know.

100%. I totally think so. Weird. There's certainly like the alpha ghost if there is one. Right. Like I feel like you hear about that and it's kind of disturbing, but it makes some sense, I guess. It's like the haunted room that's even haunted to the other ghost. It's like, well, we don't go in there.

Yeah, like, they don't even want to be in there. They, like, warn you of it. Yeah. Ugh. So the jail, like I said, is now a museum. There are a bunch of different tours. You can take there. I think there's, like, six or seven tours.

One of them is an after-hours paranormal tour. There's a self-guided audio tour like Alcatraz. There's another one called, like, the Watchers or the Watchguard Tower or something. And they literally treat you like the prisoners and lock you up. like it's for those thrill seekers out there that are not me i suppose yeah not today um so but you get like the prison experience which i well don't know if i would call it that unless you're getting like 50 50 lashes on a flogging rack but okay yeah yeah um those who do visit they claim that when they get home this would be your worst part of this when they get home they feel like something

has followed them home and it lingers in the corners of their rooms they feel like something staring at them they have weird nightmares for many nights after being there they hear voices whispering to them in their beds and they see shadows throughout their house if you would like this experience oh head on over to the old melbourne jail ew it's like creepy it's like they kind of linger and then they fade away from you after you like after a few days i don't i'll tell you christine the probably the worst creepiest feeling i've ever had was us driving from yeah i mean literally um we never we weren't together we weren't in the same car all three of us had different cars and we to this day agree that was the scariest fucking like those time the drive the drive home

from the queen mary there was separately i i couldn't see it with my eyes but i know there was someone sitting in the car with me and there were it felt like the cars were full like and we were not communicating at this point like we were all going home basically i have chills just thinking about it yeah and then like it wasn't until way later we were doing the show we were like do you guys also feel sort of like we brought an entire crew of people and like we all felt that way it was I remember demanding that we go to a second place in between our homes or our hotels and so that's why we went to Denny's because I was like I kind of if possible when I tricked him into thinking this is where we live so they stay here and that Denny's was really fucking weird too the whole like it was a thin place I swear to God we went to this Denny's and it was like in this huge fog like you could barely see and then we go in like no one. and like seeded us and we're kind of like and you asked for chocolate milk and they're like we don't have that or something we were like what is this like this place is so weird so this day I'm convinced that that done is burned down 40 years ago yeah yeah it felt and then everyone turned to look at us and we were like what the fuck it really I've never it felt like being in a

dream it felt like Christine's not like the fog was the fog was so bad like fever fever dream type feeling like like thin place twilight zone feeling I've ever felt I think the fog was so bad thought about pulling over like it like you couldn't see and the only thing you could see was is denny's we go in there nobody's talking to us it really felt like we probably were just to another person on the road they probably saw the three of us just like standing in a circle in a parking lot but like we thought we were at denny's like it it was so creepy we all gathered around eva's old fiat and we were like it was but i imagine that's the feeling you get at this jail we're like when you're leaving something is obviously in the car with you and i remember

blasting my dad wrote a porno and being like this will help help. I remember all of us calling each other on the way home to be like, are you okay? Because like, I was afraid. No, I called Jew because do you remember that I was like farthest north and there was this police car when I'd never seen this. Since then, I've heard of this being a thing, but they were doing the traffic control where they pulled into the highway and started doing like these huge like weaving. And I'd never seen that. And I was the first car in line. And so all of a sudden this cop, I'm already like so on edge. Then this cop cars pulls up, starts like weaving around and I'm like, what is going?

going on like i'd never seen that before um so i called you guys being like what's happening nobody knew i mean i eventually figured out that is a real thing that happens but it was in the moment i was like i'm going to die today i think it was terrifying it was a bad night anyway i feel like that's what it's like going to this jail so good luck anyone i think i'm gonna maybe pass um wow good story though we don't go to australia o m g the omg the old melbourne jail that's the omg that's what they call it If it reminds me of 19 crimes, I bet you there's some connection. This podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing, angry orchard. Listen, guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about.

But let's be honest, sometimes it's hard not to be. I was angry a day that Hank decided to fall asleep on my face at 6 in the morning and then kick me in the eyes. So, you know, there's things to be angry. about but you don't always have to be you know what and then when when i'm feeling angry about something or like getting worked up i'm like oh wow yeah let me open an angry orchard and then i feel so much better yeah take my anger use it use it for yourself specifically everyone do that please and get an angry orchard feel good feel chill and refreshed and uh not get you know pissed off like i was at 6th the morning with broken eyes um just have a tasty orchard grab an angry orchard cider today

Don't get angry. Get Orchard. Please drink responsibly. You know, I love to wear my devices while I sleep so I can monitor whether I'm alive in the morning, et cetera. See how I'm sleeping. Sometimes I get yelled at and I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm trying. But ever since I got my Helix mattress, when we moved into this house, I have not had the back issues that I used to have. I sleep better. Blaze sleeps better. We got that thing before Helix was ever a sponsor. I feel like that speaks for itself. But yeah, we just, we love our mattress and we don't think we're going back anytime soon. I also am obsessed with my Helix sleep mattress. The worst thing that I've had to deal with once I hit my 30s was back

pain. And to know that I'm sleeping on a mattress where I'm not going to wake up and kind of wonder if my skeleton is cracked in half. That's what I'm saying. You need a, you need a wearable device to tell you in the morning. I don't need a wearable device to know if my skeleton feels cracked but I could always use a little something, something to remind me like, oh, hey, you actually had a good night's sleep. So thank you, thank you, Helix for, you know, my spine being aligned. Oh, look at that. We do thank you for that. That is something you've given a lot of people, I think. And, you know, you don't get enough credit for that. So thank you. Go to Helixleep.com slash drink for 27% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners, Evan, that's why we drink. That's Helixleep.com

slash drink for 27% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners, Evan, that's why we drink. Helixleep.com slash drink. Alrighty. I have a story today. This is the story of Jade, Jenks, and Tom Merriman. And it is twisty-turny, okay? So buckle up. We rewind to January 1st, 2021.

A call comes in to the San Diego Sheriff's Department, and the caller identifies himself as Adam Sipleak. He feels a little uncomfortable. He's like, I don't know what to do, but I think I have to report a murder. Hmm. Dispatch is like, can you explain what you're talking about? He says, my friend Jade, and I believe Jade Jenks, and he had dated in the past, who was 36 years old, his friend Jade, she called him on New Year's Eve, 2020, to ask him to come help her at her house in Salana Beach, which is roughly 30 minutes north of San Diego. And what she told him was, I just need some help with my stepdad, 64-year-old Tom Merriman.

And Jade lived next door to her stepdad and, like, took care of him. in his older years, so it wasn't, like, unreasonable that she'd call him and ask for help. But when Adam arrived, he told investigators that Jade told him Tom was dead, and she had killed him. Oh, okay. His body, she said, was in the backseat of her Toyota forerner, and she asked Adam if he could help move his body inside the bedroom so she could stage it as an accidental death. Oh, Adam, according to his story, basically freaked out, told Jade he could not get mixed up in whatever she had done. He had his own child to raise. He was like, I don't want to be part of this.

And he was also, like, totally disoriented because Jade was very close with her stepdad and everybody knew this. But at the same time, he was like, I mean, she outright told me that she killed him. Like, I have to report this. Right. So, yeah, it's like an awkward position. Like, you know, you feel like it can't be true. but also like well also it's like damn it's like you're was they were friends is that what their

relationship was yeah i think they had dated in the past but at this point they were friends it sucks because it's like i know you thought you could come to me but now i unfortunately have to like tell the police i'm so sorry yeah it feels and so exactly and i think he kind of had that weird like crisis of conscience you know and so he spent all night deciding what to do and he agonized over it was up all night finally in the morning he decided to call 911 and report this. He said he was scared to death when he left Jade's house. He refused to even look in her vehicle's window on the way out because he's like, I don't even want to know, you know, if this is true. And he was so freaked out that he went home and called 911 the next day. So technically,

when he called 911, like he couldn't confirm that he was dead, right? He just could confirm that she told him he was dead. And so police officers did go to Tom's home in Salana Beach to do a wellness check and when they knocked no one answered and they went in and found nothing tom and jade like i said lived next door to each other and an officer as they're kind of looking through tom's house notices that jade's SUV is pulling out of the driveway of her house next door and so they stop her right away i mean bad time to go that time to go out i would say just hide to the post office yeah right i feel like maybe hide but whatever okay so she I don't know I mean I think I'm just I'm too much of a hermit to even like imagine but so she decides you know I'm gonna I guess just get away from this whole mess and she jumps in the car and they stop her right away now they pull her over and they say hey do you know where your stepdad is and she says no I have no clue she willingly accompanied the officers to the police station where she insisted she had not seen Tom since the day before when she had picked him up. from a rehabilitation center and brought him home.

So after a brief interview, Jade requested a lawyer and refused to speak any further. And she was eventually released and the police, like, started their search for Tom in earnest. And they, you know, started canvassing the neighborhood. There are these two neighbors that were also featured in the 48 hours episode. Their names are George and Ramona. And they're like this elderly couple and they're like, you can just tell they're kind of like the nosy Nellies the neighborhood. They were like, we saw them arrive at 12, you know. And so they're like being interviewed by 48 hours like standing in the front yard. Like we saw this happen and it's just like

George and Ramona, you know. Also, you know remote like the name Ramona tells me all I need to know about Ramona. Exactly. I thought so. I thought you'd understand. She has the intel and it's exactly where she wants to be. And she's ready to spill, you know. Just bring a news crew and she'll tell you everything. And so they did. And I love that it's both of them though. You know, like George is like oh and I saw that like you know they're meant to be together like they're just they work as a team. I love it. So they got this 48 hours cameo and stuff but at the time they they did tell investigators yes they had seen jade bring her stepfather home December 31st so New Year's Eve and they said actually he looked extremely unwell. They said he was trying to get out of the car with this

sort of like walker but he could barely barely stand George you know for all of his uh snoop in said He looked like hell. Okay. So George has opinions. George, okay. Yeah. So they said he looked really rough. But he had a lot of health issues, so they didn't, they weren't totally surprised by this.

Tom had suffered from chronic liver and heart problems, and he had been sick for a long time. And he had actually fallen on December 15th in his home, and Jade had rushed him to the hospital. And it was now that Jade was finally picking him up on New Year's Eve from the rehabilitation center. And because it was 2020, COVID protocol, she hadn't seen him from December 15th to the 31st. Wow. And that's the day she went and picked him up, brought him home. They saw him climbing out of the car, looking real bad. Yeah.

And that was their version of events. They never saw Tom again. After speaking with Jade, police spent the rest of the day searching Tom's house for any clue to where he could have been, where he ended up, as well as any evidence that maybe something had happened to him. And they were there all night. found absolutely nothing. So it was early morning January 2nd when one of the investigators noticed a pile of garbage in Tom's driveway. They were like cardboard boxes, like just kind of junk, like piled on top of each other.

Trash pile. Trash pile. And they had ignored this pile because they had just been walking past it as they went in and out of the house. But this time the officer decided to give it a closer look and she moved a few items aside and suddenly she saw a body. just discreetly hidden under some trash right there in the driveway. It was Tom. He had been wrapped in a blanket

and he was still in his pajamas with a hospital bracelet on his wrist. Oh, man. Jade's neighbors, you know, George and Ramona, said, oh, yes, she actually told us about the pile of trash. Jade actually mentioned it. She said on New Year's Eve,

oh, hey, sorry, I know I made kind of a mess out there. I'll clean it up. I wonder if she said any... Well, so he wasn't dead yet at that time. He was. Okay. Because I wonder if he was going to say something, if they were going to say something about like the smell

and she wanted to preemptively be like, I know it's bad. Sorry, it'll get cleaned up. She basically just said, oh, sorry about the mess out there. I promise I'll clean that up. And they just never, they didn't, they like really didn't think anything of it. They were like, oh, no worries.

Okay. You know? Interesting. And it just seemed like really a wild plot twist because... They just, he was right there in plain sight and they had no clue. Jade's neighbors said, yeah, they're like, you know, she apologized about it. We didn't think twice. But now with Tom dead and abandoned beneath a pile of trash in his own driveway that Jade had said is like her pile of trash, right?

Like she told the neighbors, oh, sorry about the mess I made. Like clearly, like all arrows pointing to Jade, right? They're like, okay, clearly she's guilty. So she's arrested under suspicion of Tom's murder, but she refuses to speak to the police without a lawyer. While she's arranging legal representation, investigators start building a case against her, which is not easy because it just doesn't make sense because everybody they talked to is like, no, they were so close. Like Jade and her stepdad were very close. She cared for him. He had married her mother when she was 14 and they quickly bonded as father and daughter.

Even when Tom and her mother got divorced, they like maintained a relationship. And it was such a strong bond that in 2020, when COVID hit, she moved next door to like help care for him and be close to him. and be close to him during the pandemic because she knew he needed some help. And they called each other, she called him dad. And her biological father is still alive, but even so she called him dad. He called her, his daughter.

And everybody who knew them thought, like this just makes no sense. And so police were completely stumped. Now, during his life, actually, I guess later on in his life after his retirement, Tom co-founded a nonprofit with his best friend called Butterfly Farms. And he and his best friend, Pat Flanagan, they wanted to dedicate the last decade of their lives to butterfly conservation.

And this was like their whole mission. Maybe that's what you can donate to next to. I mean, honestly, don't even get me starting on butterflies. I'm not a fan. You're onto something there. I knew it. people who knew Tom admired his commitment to nature like he just seemed like a really like grounded lovable guy um very compassionate cared about the earth and meanwhile jade was so warm and she cooked dinner for him every night like they just had a very close bond um she worked as a as an interior designer and had actually done work on some of the neighbor's homes probably george and romona included above all else she just loved tom and took care of him especially all his medical stuff um with his kidney problems.

So now they're thinking, well, if Jade did kill her stepfather, which it seems like she sure did, we have to figure out why. We have to find the motive. And when Jade told her story, her lawyer insisted that Jade's only crime was failure to act appropriately when Tom died tragically and accidentally. So this is Jade's version of events, okay? Mm-hmm. According to Jade, when Tom left the rehabilitation center on December 31st, he was in a lot of

discomfort and told her he had not slept at all. She said he had been contacting her by phone since 6.30 a.m. requesting codeine, like narcotic cough medicine to help him sleep. And when she finally picked him up at 11, he immediately started taking the generic for prescription Ambien, a sleep medication, prescribed to him by a doctor in the rehabilitation center. And he also took some of Jade's prescription pain meds that she had had in the SUV. Oh, okay.

Yeah. On the way home, Jade stopped at a shopping center to pick up supplies for a painting project she needed to do at home. And because Tom was getting more and more groggy, she just let him, like, sit in the car for a few minutes. By the time they got home, he could barely get out of the SUV by himself. And this is when presumably George and Ramona spotted him trying to climb out of the car and looking rough. It looked like hell, yeah. Looked like hell, to quote directly, yes. so jade tried to help tom out but she wasn't strong enough to support his weight and he was barely responsive so she said she drove tom back to the rehabilitation center to ask for assistance but they wouldn't accept tom back in and jade couldn't enter because of COVID-19 precautions and so she was kind of like totally stuck here unsure of what to do jade called multiple friends for help trying to get tom into the house but it was new year's eve and everyone was busy had plans had family she did say that her friend adam the one who made the

the 911 call did show up to her house, but Tom's condition scared him, and so he left without helping her, which obviously is where their stories conflict. Sure. At a loss, Jade says she brought pillows and a blanket out to the SUV, tuck Tom in for the night, expecting he would just sleep off the meds.

But when she checked on him first thing in the morning, she found him dead, having apparently suffered an overdose. So Jade was in full shock. she didn't know what to do. She became terrified that she'd be blamed for his death because she left him in the SUV overnight. She thought it would look better if he were in his bed and had died by this accident. So she wanted to move him inside, but she still couldn't, especially now that it's just

dead weight, right? Like she couldn't lift him. And so in a complete panic, she apparently dragged him out of the back seat, laid him down in the driveway, and covered his body with garbage just to like have a temporary cover. Not a good look. He remained there for 24 hours until police discovered him. The glaring problem with her story, though, was how drastically it conflicted with Adam's story,

his one on one call and then his subsequent tale of what happened. So Jade claimed Adam had seen Tom alive, and it had freaked him out how, like, unwell he was. Adam claimed he never saw Tom at all because Jade said he was dead. So very different accounts here. And even if Adam did see Tom and was alarmed, by how unwell Tom looked, that didn't make sense that he would call 911 the next day and say, like, say, like, I have a murder to report. Like, it just doesn't quite add up.

What I haven't noted yet, though, is that Adam had told investigators that Jade had actually given him the specifics of the murder. She told him she had used drugs to sedate Tom and then strangled him to death. That's fucking crazy. Okay, that's wild. Wow. So investigators were confident that Tom's autopsy would support this story. and they're thinking, okay, we already figure out who did it. We don't necessarily know why, but, you know, now we have the way he was killed.

But when the results came back, they did not support this theory. So the medical examiner ruled the cause of death to be acute xolpidem intoxication. So basically an overdose of Ambien. Okay. And what's more, there were no signs of strangulation or spixiation at all. Yeah, that's the weirdest part of it all is like, why are you claiming you killed him? one and two in a more intense way like you could have like you could have quote gotten away with it or like would have had no ramifications if it was just medically induced so why are you making it

worse for yourself you know but it's like then did he say that like did adam say that in the call like right right because it's hearsay it's like he said she told him that you know it's like I see then you know that's where you get kind of the bogged down in the details um so They didn't have proof that he was strangled. That was kind of a blow to the prosecution. And without definitive proof that he was murdered at all, they were kind of like in a standstill. And at this point, they could not even figure out

why she would have murdered this man that she just had cared for for years and loved so much, you know, whom she called dad. So they took her phone and took a closer look at her phone. And on the phone, they found some answers, okay? in distraught texts sent to her friends in the days before Tom's death she had told a disturbing story on December 23rd while her stepdad was in the rehabilitation center or at least at the hospital for after his fall jade had been cleaning his home as usual she wanted it to look nice for him

when he returned and she bumped the mouse connected to his desktop computer which had been in sleep mode. And when the computer woke up and the screensaver appeared, Jade saw breasts. And it took her a moment to realize they were her breasts. Okay. It was a picture of her in the shower that she had taken with a previous partner years ago. And she was in total shock. She logged onto the computer and she found hundreds of pictures, naked photographs, all of her. on her father's computer oh no like it's it's something that like i can't even begin to yeah no need consider like to wrap my mind around how that would feel you know what i mean like just the like betrayal and like the sickening like i just it's and maybe you're going to get here um was this

just a sexual thing or do we find out later that maybe he was like in love with her or something like does it does it do we know any more no context no okay not that it matters just one just for the i mean for what it's worth they apparently he had sorted these naked photos into categories by body part so i feel like oh okay so probably romantic love is maybe out of the question um especially because some of the images were of her as a child because remember he had met her when she was Oh, no. Oh, that's so bad. Okay. Like, the sickening, like, betrayal of this, like, it makes, it actually, like, I get acid in my throat. Yeah, that's a rough one. It's, it's so sick. He had made a carousel arranged to play as a screensaver that shuffled through images of her naked body, hundreds of them. And Jade had taken these photos of the years with some past boyfriends, but she had no clue, like, where or how he had gotten them. Like, she thought, well,

there was a digital camera I used to own that I lost years ago, or I thought I lost it. Like maybe he found the memory card. Oof. It is just the most sickening thing. So she was completely unmoored by this. Again, some of the photos were of her as a child. Like, this is just extremely shocking.

And she was overcome by pure horror. She tried to reconcile with what she was seeing with the man she literally called Dad. And so she's like trying to figure this out, the violation. And not only that, but she like, the, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but also the, the, the mental toll of like, uprooting your life, moving to a place closer to him, feeling responsible for taking him to the hospital, being like, like, it's not just like, oh, that's, not that this is good either, but it's, it's not like, it's, oh, my dad who I'm removed from. It's like, my dad who I've changed my whole life to accommodate. Yeah. Yes, yeah, that I care for in a father-daughter way that I thought we both understood.

Yeah, it's just more non-sexually intimate, which makes it more... It's pretty sickening. More personal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She texted her friend that she was so disgusted. She couldn't bear to undress. She couldn't take a shower. She didn't even want to touch her own skin.

She was so revolted. She became terrified by what Tom might do when he came home and discovered she'd seen the photos. Not only was she responsible for his care, like you just. mentioned she lived next door to him so it's not like she could avoid him you know so he was probably like creeping on her through the window and everything too like for all we know i don't know who knows i mean i don't know that but she he did have all these photos that he had access some i mean it it it would be my first thought like the the classic like guy with a telescope or something like i mean it's who knows but i don't think he wouldn't need to if they were like that close just creepy just

like i would wonder how often were you staring at me and i didn't notice like yeah and so she got really anxious about him coming home and discovering she'd seen the photos she couldn't avoid him. She told her friend she slept with a knife on the bedside table she was too afraid to confront Tom alone and so Jade's friend connected her with a man named Alan Roach

so Jade sent a message to Alan on Facebook and he worked as a security guard but he told Jade that if she had a problem he could quote fix it. So investigators confirmed all these details including that the photos on Tom's computer were there they were that was a real story she did not invent that uh she had discovered those photos

they discovered that tom had actually used these photos of jade on his computer wallpaper since august 2019 since before she moved there and then like kept i mean it's just fucking insane i mean it's just fucking sick they began to worry though because you know they're prosecuting her as a murderer right and like they're worrying oh well now she's going to be you know a sympathetic defendant and we want to focus on the fact that she potentially killed someone rather than let her defense kind of win over a jury you know by by making her the victim et cetera et cetera this is i guess part of the line that lawyers have to walk um they basically knew it would be crucial for them to prove that jade had killed tom with premeditation and that she

was guilty of first degree murder regardless of the motive so whether or not he had naked photos and and she was obviously victimized and traumatized in that way they needed to find if they wanted to prove her guilty they needed to find a way to prove it was premeditated so at jade's trial the court heard jade's story that tom died of an accidental overdose overnight in her SUV and she was too scared that like he was going to or that she was going to be blamed for that she was they filmed the whole trial she was weeping on the stand as she spoke of the photos. I mean, it's like chilling to watch her describe bumping the mouse

and like seeing the photos appear. She described meeting Tom when she was 14 and feeling like so, sorry, for some reason hitting me now, but like she said it's hard to come by someone you just feel that you can trust completely and I did feel that way. And so like the fact that, you know, her biological father is alive and he does come back

kind of later in the story, but the fact that she is so much closer with this man and calls him dad. Yeah. Like it, the violation is just sickening. And so this was like incomprehensible. But she insisted she never planned to harm Tom and was innocent of his,

of his death. She said she only contacted Alan Roach, the security guard, the fixer guy, because she was too terrified to confront Tom about the photos on her own and wanted like a man there to back her up. She wanted to tell Tom he had to move away so that she could feel safe in her own home, but she couldn't do it alone, so she wanted Alan to come over and be by her side

while she confronted Tom to make her feel safe. That was her story. Gotcha. And with no proof that Tom was strangled to death, a secondhand alleged confession and evidence that Tom collected explicit photographs of Jade, she had a very strong defense. Like, people were going to be like, well, you know, maybe she has a point. Maybe this was all just a sick accident and, you know, whatever. I could see it being an accident like I mean I could believe the it's a very good defense on top of him being a total creep like he overdosed on medication that was not my responsibility and we have not gone to this yet but on that note he also I want to add that he also had a substance use disorder and so you know it wasn't inconceivable that he would be taking prescription medications you know willy-nilly you know and mixing drugs so yeah exactly to your point like it kind of explains itself in that way, there are just too many weird things that don't add up. And when the prosecution showed up for their side of things, it kind of turned the tables. Because it does seem believable.

But then, again, we go back to her cell phone. And I'm telling you, people think their cell phone, I mean, me included, people think their cell phones are like private or whatever. And then you hear these things and you're like, oh, my God, they're just reading all her texts allowed in a courtroom, you know, it's like, horrifying. Yeah, horrifying. But, you know, it showed this totally different story, okay, because they provided a series of texts, the prosecution did.

When Jade picked Tom up at 11 a.m. on December 31st, remember, she said he had been calling since 630, and she picked him up, and he was like, I'm in pain, I haven't slept, I want medicine, I want codeine, and so she picked him up, and that was her version, right? Well, they're going through her phone, and she did pick him up at 11. And around that time, she texted Alan, this fixer guy, the security guard fixer guy, quote, I just dosed the hell out of him. That's not good. And it just keeps coming. It's like, you're like, one thing is like, ooh, and then it's like another, another, another.

And it starts to get. That sucks because I was going to say the, like, if that was it, I'd be like, okay, like when Allison got her whizantyed out, I'd do. the hell out of her like it's the right right right right like you it could mean it's like me with hank and his CBD whenever we're recording it's like oh I dose the hell out of him and now he's taken a nap like it could it could not be that bad if yeah it could and actually that's kind of what she said she called it poor phrasing she said oh maybe it was just poor phrasing and like of course it's fishy that she's texting a fixer guy that she doesn't know yeah i like you it feels weird that you would say that to somebody you don't know to someone who is

implying that they're a problem for you yeah man and you're basically it does look like you're like okay step one complete the eagle has landed yeah precisely and so that was the first text that they they shared then um oh of course they said okay they believe this is in reference to the ambian um in fact jade's DNA was discovered on the ambient packet and tom's was not so it's a subtle difference but the fact that she said oh he was taking his ambient and it turns out only her DNA was on it, you know. Not subtle enough. Yeah, not subtle enough. And so it looked as though Jade had given Tom and like, therefore, dosed out the whatever dosage she had, uh, given him that ambient, which again was the ruled cause of death. And so this is already

looking bad. Um, and one question about this text, she said, it's poor phrasing. But remember when I said, oh, she stopped to pick up some supplies at this shopping center, uh, to, she was picking up supplies and she left him in the car for a few minutes to kind of like sleep it off or whatever sure so when she went she did go to this shopping center and when they're tracking her phone or reading back through her text at that time she texted the same guy allen quote stopping at dixieland to stall girl girl girl what year was this like did was texting new like 2021 no oh right she yeah that you know better come on like they're gonna i mean it's like not even in code like like you're not even in code like come on you know sorry but no but yeah it's like it's this is too this is like rookie shit I mean but also it's like I but then part of me thinks like but imagine you go through something so harrowing and like soul shattering that your brain can't even keep up with like what you know what I mean like so I feel like in a certain way she probably feels detached from reality I mean I would you know if I were rethinking an entire person that I admired my whole life or so I don't know

I mean, I just want to give that nuance, but yeah, it's like, does not look good, right? Like, stopping at Dixielanda's stall. Again, you could maybe, you know, finagle that to mean something else. But, of course, prosecutors say, you know, this proves Jade was buying time while the medication sedatives sank in. She also sent Alan a text, here we go. And this was dug up by Sersha. I was not in the 48 hours documentary either, but she sent Alan a text that the situation was going to be like. Weekend at Burnies.

Come on. I'm sorry. That is so on the nose. I don't think you can even become more on the nose. And if like for those of you who are youthful and spry and don't know what that is or maybe have like very high film tastes, Weekend at Burnies is a classic movie comedy where this guy gets murdered and then they stage it to look like an accidental drug overdose and then the characters like travel around with Bernie's corpse with sunglasses and like pretend

like they're enjoying their vacation. They have to pretend he's alive, right? So that's kind of what she's implying is like, oh, it'll be like puppeteering him, you know. It'll be like a real weekend at Bernie. They'll be like the two of us in a corpse, yeah. Right. I mean, it's literally so on the nose. And it's hard to come back from that.

And when asked about the trial, you know, she said, well, I was making a joke about like moving him inside when he's like basically sedated and I'm like I mean I guess like I guess it's just when you add all this up it starts to look so shady yeah I could see all individually I could see even the just stalling I'd be like until you guys go get lunch and he's in traffic like it could be or like until you're available to come over and help me or whatever to help me confront him it certainly I I could be convinced otherwise however I'm leaning towards this is not a good luck I mean, it's tricky, but yeah, it starts to get more and more like, oh, gosh, yeah, there's, it's hard to come back from this. And so she said, oh, it's just a joke about like, because he was so sedated and groggy.

So as the afternoon progressed, she apparently, as I went through the text, had sent Alan increasingly panicked messages, including, quote, he's waking up and, quote, can you come over? Alan eventually responded, finally, and said he couldn't make it, but he would send his friend. and Brian Solomon. Now, Brian testified in court. He said he arrived at Tom's home at Jade's request and at his friend Alan's request. And he said, Jade asked him to strangle Tom to death. He basically said, Jade told me that he's, his body, there's his body and, or there he is, he's sedated, I need you to strangle him to death, something along those lines.

And Brian apparently went, uh, no thanks, and just left, uh, did not contact. the police, although I feel like he probably just wanted to stay out of it, frankly. I don't know that for sure, but at 3 p.m. that day, Jade texted Alan, quote, he's waking up and I'm not sure how much longer I can control my temper. She sent several more texts, yeah, including he's waking up and getting way more aggressive, so it's way more real, then I can't carry him home alone and I can't keep a kicking body in my trunk. And then, fuck, he's up. I guess I'm on my own.

So they brought these, the prosecution brought these and said, hey, nice story, but this does not look good. And when police had arrived on January 1st to do a wellness check, they also noted that Jade texted Allen, remember how she was pulling out of the driveway? And I said, like, it seems like kind of the time to not be pulling out of your driveway, but I guess if you're just not thinking straight, you know, she jumped in the car. Well, at that same time, she texted Allen, lose my number. I'm getting pulled over. And it's like, dude,

come on, just delete the whole thing, you know? I don't know. I mean, not that that would have necessarily stopped anything. And not that I want her to get away with murder, right? But it's this thing of like, I guess you're in such a shock mode maybe. Again, I don't want to like pretend like I know what I would do in this scenario. But it's also weird to like be a, I don't know what the right word is, but to look with, to look in on this story. as like an outsider and to be I don't mean to be holier than that when it comes to someone's

murder but at the same time I'm like I think I could have done this better like I don't like I think I would have I would have evaded the police for at least one minute more and like I can I mean which like I don't know why that's like my natural way to be like I mean girl what are you thinking but I think that's human instinct to be like hindsight is 2020 right like why did you do that what were you thinking and it's like well of course in the moment maybe you're thinking I can't even be in this house anymore like right you know maybe you're thinking like maybe you're not thinking maybe you're so detached who knows like I maybe you're so in shock um but yeah it just feels so glaring there's some stories you tell where I'm just like I don't want to say I think like a murderer

but I think I think more more strategic like I but yeah you're right like I'm also not in the head space for like maybe I'm just so checked out the like you've just I'm not even thinking about a plan familial trauma and all this you know and and, like, found a dead body in your car, like, as goes her story. Yeah, it's, it's hard to say. It's just weird. Human nature is weird. The brain's weird.

It is, and I think that is the human nature hindsight to go, wow, what were you thinking? Like, that's so obvious. So Adam also testified he, he's the one who called 911, and he testified that Jade wanted his help moving Tom's dead body inside, even though that was not what she claimed. So the prosecution's whole argument was like, Jade wants to put Tom. in his bed to make the death look like an accidental overdose and they actually said she probably would like you said earlier she probably would have gotten away with it if she had moved him inside

and had not told anyone it was just that she had asked so many people for help because she couldn't carry him and then like you know clearly couldn't get somebody to convince anybody to like get the job done so to speak yeah so it's unclear how exactly there was this overdose but in any case like it's just looking worse and worse for her and you know they argue she probably would have gotten away with it if she had done this and that differently and apparently when Adam refused to help which of course unraveled this whole thing because he's the one who made the initial 911 call that led to the wellness check apparently when he first refused to help jade tried to move tom herself and she actually did this by putting his body or his body was still in the back

and she drove to a nearby hospital where she took a wheelchair and loaded it into the trunk and the prosecution said, oh, well, she was clearly getting this wheelchair to wheel him inside, will his body inside because he was already dead

by the time she picked up the wheelchair. And Jade was asked also, like, why didn't, if you were at a hospital, why didn't you say, like, hey, I have a dead body with me. I need help, you know. And she said, well, I was still in shock and denial that he was even dead.

I didn't want to ask for help because I didn't want to believe I needed help. And so she kind of talked around that. And the prosecution said, oh, remember that Dixieland stop she made. Well, we actually have the receipts from what she bought that day. What was it like a knife or something? It was gloves, towels, nylon cord, and black spray paint. And she did work in interior design, but she tried to explain kind of the like project she was doing. and I was like, what?

I don't know. It's, it's fishy when you're also saying, like, I'm stalling. I mean, I don't know. Maybe, maybe you're just buying duct tape. Like, you couldn't buy gum, you know, like, I don't know. It's just kind of the nylon cord, the gloves, the towels. It all just feels a little like, I mean, the prosecution definitely ran with it. They called it her murder kit.

Of course. And when they found the towels, the towels had been tied together into a rope. And they believed this was meant to be a gag. And so it just, again, like, really not looking good. Tom's brother, Terrence, so essentially her uncle, he testified that after police contacted him looking for Tom, Terence called Tom, but Tom didn't pick up. At this point, he was already dead. But Jade called him back later to say, oh, Tom's actually suffering from some withdrawal symptoms due to alcohol and drug use, and he can't talk right now. and like this wasn't too out of the ordinary because i told you earlier you know he had alcohol

and drug use disorders and had struggled with this um so taryn said okay have him call me as soon as he was able but he was dead and so i'm like why is jade even calling her uncle to like yeah just making matters worse right it feels like she's just adding more fuel to this like but to your point but how would you know i guess to your point though maybe she's just not thinking right again like it's hard to apply logic to something that like you're probably how could you even feel logical when you just found hundreds of nude photos that you probably yourself haven't seen in like a decade suddenly like of you as a child on your dad's computer as you know i mean of course and i just say that again to like point out like the absolute outrageousness and disgustingness of that um so

all these people testified it's not looking good um the jury went and into deliberation in the afternoon. They broke until next morning to continue. They met at 9 a.m. And at 9.30, they had a verdict. So 30 minutes later. And prosecution was nervous. They were like, ah, short verdict.

It doesn't always mean something that we want to hear. But they did find Jade guilty of first degree murder. When the verdict was announced, Jade turned to her lawyer and you could see her go, I don't understand. Like, she's completely shocked. Like, she's like, I don't understand. what are they saying and he's like it's happening you know you're going and she's in complete denial and shock and it's it's pretty upsetting to watch like what's your did you see her like what's

your take on it was she like truly was it a bit that she was doing or did but she truly I mean she was definitely she didn't even understand okay I think she just didn't expect it I think she was just totally blindsided by the verdict like she just looked at her lawyer and was like I don't understand and he was like it's not good you know yeah um And she just, yeah, she was like totally, totally flabbergasted. And that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Like maybe she did it, but she was like really believed that they would. Sure.

Believe her story. Like, who knows? You know, but you could tell she was definitely shocked, or at least I believe she was. So at the sentencing, Tom's brother Patrick and several other loved ones described Tom as a kind and loving man. But Jade actually spoke at her own sentencing and said that Tom had abused her psychologically since she was a child, that his abuse had progressed to coercion and inappropriate touch. And she said all that trauma had come crashing down when she saw these photos on Tom's computer. And she maintained her innocence in Tom's death.

And so, of course, they said, like, well, why didn't you bring that up in the trial, right? Like that he was abusive and, you know, whatever, coercive, all this stuff. and I guess her defense said well it was irrelevant because jade maintained she had nothing to do with tom's death but like the prosecution's whole fear was that she would come off as like a victimized victim or as a victim um and be

uh like amenable to the jury in that way so i'm a little surprised that they wouldn't use that story earlier but i mean again fuck do i know um but so she did she did tell that story at the sentencing and he said the abuse allegations would have been important if jade had accepted that she had killed her stepdad but because she didn't kill her stepdad they thought it was irrelevant because why would that have anything to do with it i get it i mean it's a fair point it is a tactic it's a tactic of like i don't want it to look like manslaughter like oh she did kill him yeah if i give me too many reasons it looks like i'm trying to justify

Exactly, exactly. That's very fair point. So I kind of, I kind of rethink what I said earlier. That's, that's true. So Jade's birth father that I mentioned a couple times, Steve Jenks, he made a statement on Jade's behalf. He was outraged by Tom's violation of Jade's trust and safety. He even said to her, or he even said in his statement, she called him dad. And like, this is her biological father. And he's saying like, she called him dad and this is what he did to her. Throughout the trial, Jade's, best friend Heather stayed by her side. Heather did not believe she was capable of killing Tom, no matter what he did to her, truly. She was like, I don't believe it. But in March of 2023, 29-year-old Jade Janks was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Her attorney plans to file an appeal,

but to this day, she remains in prison. Wow. And that's the story for now. And for all we know, because maybe she was having a a break from reality if we'll say that like a she just snapped from finding something out about her dad um she could have just been

it could have all been a happenstance or preventable in some way it's yeah it just feels weird to know that someone's sitting there and like it could have been not that I'm trying to justify what what she did but I always wonder like what would it take for me to snap and like i just don't think i just feel like they've i feel like when i haven't they disproven that snap theory though like that you people don't just like snap like it

it's i don't know anything about that maybe i think it's like a much more i mean and i feel like snap also implies like just like right away but like the fact that she had what 15 days to plan this right or 15 days to like pick him up and you're right and she was texting the guy the yeah and making plans and saying, you know, I have a problem you need to fix and all this. It's like, it just starts to look like, well, you know, he's away for 14 days or however many days it was. And like, then he winds up dead. And then you've texted all these people to come help. And I will say also with the strangulation where they found no evidence of strangulation. And I don't know how true this is. This would be a question for someone with more like experience

in this field like Elena or somebody from morbidia. but like they said because he was presumably unconscious, at least this is what the prosecution said, there may have not been any signs of strangulation because he wouldn't have been resisting. Interesting. And they said you could strangle someone with only four pounds of force.

Wow. But I was like, okay, but like when people are unconscious and get strangled, you can usually still see fingerprints. I don't know. I felt I got a little conflicted about that. I don't know. I'm sure it's, I guess it's possible. But just to explain,

why the corner said there was no sign of strangulation which i find surprising if that is although maybe she tried to strangle him and it didn't and it was just the ambient that did it you know what i mean i wonder if um i wonder if she ever had any like negative feelings about him before seeing the pictures and i and not in like a judgmental way but just curious like did that did anything ever rub her the wrong way did he ever show like looking back did she feel like she saw signs. Do you know what I mean? Like you know when you're in a relationship, you don't see it and then you leave it and you kind of like, your eyes are cleared. Well, I wonder too, because to find pictures like that, I don't know what that would do to me mentally, but I don't know if it would

escalate so quickly to something that intense. That's, I think, where, like, that's where her best friend is like, she wouldn't have done this. Like, this doesn't make sense. Yeah. And so it's like, of course, if she were that angry. And maybe that is what happened. maybe there was like a really long history of abuse and it got like totally triggered by seeing this and it all came back I don't know I mean that's what she claimed but again like she was convicted and until they appeal like we're not going to really I guess find out much more so um it's just all it's like sad all the way it's traumatizing and then like double traumatizing right it's like either way it's just sad it's so sad and like she's suffering doubly because of it right like

whether you know not to say she's not guilty but just to say like it didn't help heal her trauma right i mean this is it's just adding to it i think i live too in the gray space of context like because sometimes when you tell stories i'm like i don't know if there sometimes there's just not a side like you don't have to pick a side every time i guess but sometimes i'm like who do i side more with and i can see all sides i think maybe a a little too well i guess sometimes i don't know i because when I hear a story like this my first instinct is like oh wow that poor girl but then it's also like but yeah she spent like two weeks like preemptively doing something like I get I never know like how to feel after these no I know and it's sad because it's like it didn't it's not like uh yeah go girl like get

revenge right it's like no you're just getting you're just you're reacting out of a traumatic if if this is what happened and she did kill him like you're probably acting out of a very traumatized place and, like, it's just going to make everything worse. Like, it's not like this helped heal her, right? Right, it's just spiraled into something else. Just making it worse, and now she's in prison. And it's just all very sad. Yeah.

Yeah. So. Anyway, thanks for listening to, and that's why we drink when. That's why we bum you out every week. KTWW, B.YO, bum you out. Oh, I was like BYO. oh you know what now that let's rename the show um it's not too late is it uh thank you everyone christine do you want to shout out anything uh i don't think i have anything particularly to shout

out this comes out like if we're ahead for the first time in a while which is kind of exciting um what day what days has come out i don't have any clue uh not this sunday i know that well let me see You've got your August shows. You've got Indianapolis, Detroit, and Kansas City coming up in Omaha. Oh, and Live Laugh Larson, you'll be at Kansas City, which will be fun if anyone is a fan of theirs. Yeah. So go see Christine. Yeah, come see Beach, too, Sandy.

We're going to have fun. But otherwise, if you want more of our nonsense, you can go to our Patreon. Patreon. Patreon.com slash ATW.D. podcast um you can find full length video episodes on youtube and uh we're also on all the socials so come find us and we'll see you next sunday and that's why we bomb you out b y o b y o b