And That's Why We Drink - E450 Estate Sale Unboxings and Open-Eyed Naps

Episode Date: September 21, 2025

Welcome to episode 450, where we're getting haunted by Christine's latest estate sale acquisitions. This week Em brings us a South African folklore in the Tokoloshe. Then Christine covers the heartbreaking Tallahassee disappearance and murder of Lori Analise Page. And tune into Leona's future podcast to hear more about her open-eyed naps... and that's why we drink! Right now, And That’s Why We Drink listeners can save 30% on their first order of Cornbread Hemp! Just head to cornbreadhemp.com/DRINK and use code DRINK at checkout. Quit stalling and start saving when you make the switch to Mint Mobile. Shop plans at MINTMOBILE.com/ATWWD. The best way to cook just got better. Go to HelloFresh.com/DRINK10FM now to get 10 Free Meals + a Free Item for Life! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When we were looking for someone to hire when we needed help with things as simple as doing our emails or our social media, we did not know where to start. And back then, we were just lucky that we found Eva, but the future of hiring looks even brighter because ZipRecruiter's latest pools and features help speed up finding the right people for your roles. So you save valuable time. And now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. Finding Eva was the best thing we could have ever done. but the fact that there's even more tools, I mean, instead of finding her in 24 hours, we would have found her in one hour.

We don't know. But the zip recruiters really changed the game for us, and I'm sure it will for you, as it has for many businesses. Yeah, use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. We are exactly a ringing endorsement to that.

And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com slash drink right now, you can try it for free. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash drink. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety

brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, leased a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Condition Supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. Welcome to it. That's why we drink, where we just talk about all of the holes that. I mean, orifice is good. I like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Holes is. It's a choice. feels like slaying at this point if you're talking about orifices and holes the movie came on tv yesterday and i went oh leona i used to like this movie and then i went i don't know yet if this is something i like i haven't watched it in so many years that i'm like it holds such a special place in my heart um and she's like i okay i mean i just was like maybe not it's like maybe it's too old for you i like i don't remember if it holds up i don't remember but i fucking loved that movie i think it certainly holds up and the book that book man oh

Oh, boy. What an adventure. Am I right, folks? Yeah. That's what they all said in unison to you across the globe. Yeah. I'm so glad to hear that. It is like talking into the void, isn't it? Yeah. Welcome to 400 episodes, and I'm so glad we're finally aware and sentient to this. We've reached the singularity amongst ourselves. Oh, Christine. How are you? I like your shirt. I'm assuming club tired moms club that's exactly right thank you I wear this every time I travel because sometimes like people can get kind of extra bitchy at the airport and sometimes

they'll just like look at my shirt and go oh yeah me too like you know like I'm like can we just all be a little bit gentler with each other please it's my travel shirt for that reason um I'm doing well thank you I uh I was a little late to recording I was late to recording we both were well you were late and then I was late and I said you'll see you'll know what it means and um horrifying it's it's the reason I drink what's happening when my newest acquisition has arrived it's a fucking baboo boo-boo no oh okay that would be fun I thought we were doing an unboxing or something oh that would be fun that would be really fun don't get anyone's hopes up it is an unboxing

of sorts um I received a series of about I want to leave I was like I this was like I think last no a few nights ago I was of course on my favorite what do you call it estate sale site you don't even do it in real life this is a digital thrift oh this is a digital thrift yeah digital estate sale okay yeah and then so then um I just like swung by got my hands on these bad boys and but the thing is like nobody was bidding on And it was like, I like how I say that. Like, can you believe it? You're the only one shock.

And for those, by the way, who are just listening, Christine has accumulated even more oldest shit pictures of people who are certainly no longer living. Okay. I'm going to actually turn the camera down, okay? Okay. This is my acquisition. And, like, photos, like, if I go to an antique store and I, like, look at this, sometimes I'll be like, this is, like, $5 or $3 or whatever, like, for an old photo.

I paid, I think, $31 for several photo albums. Oh my God, truly albums and albums. Hundreds of photos, like cards. Like, I always love to collect these, like, vintage cards, too. This one, too my, look, it looks like murder handwriting, to my darling. Yeah, that is something that you wake up to in a basement. It's just, in ransom letters. It sounds like a criminal minds episode.

Hold on, here we go. February 14th, 1911. Oh. Dear little Dorothy, with best wishes from yours truly cousins, Frederick and Louisa. I'm precious. Oh, and then Frederick wrote, I made my initials myself. Oh. I don't you.

It's cute. I, you know, I poop poo on this often and I'll continue to do so. But I do. And I don't plan on stopping. But I do see what's happening. Like, I'm not totally. Totally blind to, like, what is endearing about it. Yeah, that's awesome.

It's, I mean, horrifying from a paranormal perspective. I think, I know we always say this, but like, I think it's the yappy hour, oh my God, look at these bad bitches. It's like an album cover. It really is. Yeah, I just like, I don't know. Remember that time when we went through that one album, we found that whole family tree? Yeah. That's dope.

No, for reasons like that, I think it's super cool. Like, I get it. I really do get it. but I just am, I just couldn't because I just am so aware of everything I'd be inviting in. You are correct. Because every time I go pick something up there, they're like, oh, we were wondering who bought that. Yeah.

It's like that should be a red flag. Yeah. Oh, God. And some of them are just like kind of half albums and stuff. And I just like, I don't know. I bought all the, like, a lot of people had recommended different brands of like archival storage and stuff. So I've bought a lot of the materials to do that.

I just need to kind of organize a little better. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's just kind of fun to look through. And then it's also a very good, like, coffee table book when people come over. You're like, I don't believe you. No, no, no. And I will say on behalf of the people that are in these photo albums, like, you're probably making them so happy to know that it's just not in a garbage can somewhere. but well because it was like 30 bucks and I was like 30 bucks and no one else bid on it I was like bidding on it and nobody else added to the bid and I was like I mean okay if nobody really wants these like I don't want them to get trashed like you said yeah I do I think my the way that my hyper fixations seem to present themselves these days is like I don't I want to collect something like that with the intent of like solving the riddle of like who are these people and I think

I get that. And I would just be mad that there's just a pile of people that I don't know anything about and I can't solve it and then I can't present it. I don't know. In my head I want to do something with them and I would just constantly feel like I deadended myself. I just think like, I don't know, sometimes I just like flip through them and like, I think I don't know, read them. Do you have a favorite of all that that you've, or have you not even looked through it yet?

I have not even looked through it. So I was thinking maybe in the Yapiar, I can read you one of these letters from 1911 yeah i so far i mean that was a good one to just stumble upon in front of all this with frederick's little initials let's put the rest behind a paywall just in case i don't know what the rest of these say uh 1911 over 100 years ago and nobody crazy yeah so maybe we can look at this um wow this from minnesota it's so random like how did this end up anyway so uh yeah maybe in the app here we can like look through for fun so cute reduce some of the special ones yeah no i would like that uh maybe we can solve a riddle i don't know we'll say maybe we can finally solve

the big mystery big mystery of who are all these people well we did it with the other one that was pretty cool yeah i was impressed that we figured that out pretty quickly we're we're like mary kate and ashley is like a detective agency oh my god yes but just like in the digital era you know yeah but with very non-digital pieces of photographs oh right also that also the victorian era well anyway why do you drink because that's why i drink that's a great reason to drink um thank you i drink and i'm drinking water because i'm like so boring okay at least we know ourselves um i was gonna drink water and then i i feared the boredom or the perception of boredom and so i had something sent out usual at this point like talk about a subscription service like i just need one

for this coffee shop. Yeah, I know. You should be getting rewards points or whatever if you're not. I do with my other place, but they, it's like a punch card, so to physically go in. And I'm like, that is not how this should be working. Yeah. Anyway, I got me a little iced tea, which I felt like I deserved. Yesterday, I kept thinking, oh, in a couple minutes, I'll order one.

Oh, in a couple minutes, I'll order one. And they never did. And so this morning, I was like, now is the time, for sure. So like, I cockblocked myself yesterday. Like, what was I thinking? Anyway, have me a little iced tea. I got me a second one because it's oh I know you like it yeah I know the method one for chugging one for sipping it's it's always I always got a double fist um and I drink honestly mainly because I it's so

unbearably hot here that it's it's it's been why like this whole week it's in the 90s and especially as someone who now has to go outside often because of a whole other living creature who wants to desperately be outside and he doesn't understand i'm keeping him alive by not letting him do that yeah he's like i love it out he's like olaf like i love this son he's like no you really need to get a grip and when i let him outside for like five minutes at a time he still doesn't understand so part of me which is like the like a hundred years ago this would have not been animal abuse part of me's like stay out there like i want you to find out why we're inside you enjoy it but um he'll never know because he's too coddled so um um at the

The dog park, people aren't even going until like nine o'clock at night because it's so hot right now. It's like. Oh, yeah. And it's like their paws get hurt and it's just. Yeah. And he will not wear his shoes. So that brings a whole. Oh, man.

I mean, what dog will wear their shoes? I've met a dog recently with shoes on and then I saw them again in the same shopping center and she had different shoes on. And I was like, oh my God. She is, she knows. She knows who she is. She's just strutting them off one by one. Oh, yeah. Anyway, I, I, not that I really planned on going outside, but all of a sudden, now that it's not an option, I'm just like, oh, I don't like that.

So I weirdly drink because I can't go outside. I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me. Hey, something just shifted in the atmosphere. I don't know. Something just broke. A crack of lightning just hit the, hit the atmosphere. Uh, yeah, and also I don't like that.

It's kind of ruining my routine of like, if I have to take them, I'd rather take them at this time and say this time. And now I have to take them like when I'm up usually about. that's like settled in for the night you know when it's like finally cool enough yeah yeah and you know what this you know why i'm drinking if if you're really what we're boiling it down to is i'm being inconvenienced and we know how i feel about that yeah i mean i'm glad you don't drink alcohol because if you were uh you drink alcohol every time you were inconvenienced which i mean some of us tend to do occasionally yeah i would get um yeah it would add a whole new element to your life so yeah i'm glad you're just drinking icedy look i i i know i know

know it. I think it all the time. I'm like, what if I just started drinking today? And then I'm like, oh my God. I think I'm good. Please don't. I think it would be too sad at this point. Like I think like, because I would want to like have the like the experience and everyone else is like stopping that. They're like I'm. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, hey, actually it's starting to make me feel like bad. Yeah. No one's going to want to go out and like get drinks regularly with me. You know, so I mean, I would. but not everyone not everyone so i i think uh there's like a window when you have to start drinking and then if you don't get into that window then it's like i think you just don't drink you know it's like either you stop drinking at this aid you don't start usually i know like you usually keep

drinking or stop around like as you get older but not really usually start from the beginning yeah well um quick question and if you don't want to talk about it that's fine but um yeah uh leona's first day of preschool was yesterday or two days ago? Yeah. She fucking loves it, dude. Good. She gets to bring like a little sleeping bag and she goes to her. We put her in like, I know, and it's a Dino Ranch sleeping bag and we put her in the,

she wanted to be in like the rest area instead of like the, I keep saying the restroom and then everyone's like the restroom and I'm like, no, no, like the rest zone. She wants to be in the toilet. She's getting a swirly actually as we speak. In an industrial bathroom, yeah. No, she wants to be in the rest, but they also have, like, a nap room. And I'm like, she doesn't take naps, but she's, like, doing so much that she'll probably be tired. And so she was in the rest area thingy.

And I was like, oh, so, like, did you get to rest? And she's like, yeah, but I kept my eyes open the whole time. You know how she's, like, so weird about falling asleep. That girl loves to not close her eyes. I don't know what her doing. It's so strange. And then Blaze talked to her teacher today and said, oh, no, she apparently falls asleep every time. Like, so they're moving her.

to the nap room and I'm like oh okay she told me and blaze is like she doesn't say that to me and I'm like I don't know why she keeps insisting to me that she doesn't close her eyes certainly a phase I wouldn't expect yeah yeah I'm like did I fuck you up somehow already like I don't I don't know what the closing the eyes is about you know when like macho men are like I don't believe in therapy because like that's weak that's weak for some reason I feel like she thinks like closing her eyes is week or something but i think there's some fear there maybe about dreaming because she's like i don't have dreams i don't i don't have dreams and i'm always like yeah she probably just had her first bad dream and didn't know what she did about it but i didn't even she never said anything i'm like

and we're always like you know open we're like you can tell us anything but she's also very much she's like we're like hey like what's wrong she's like i don't want to tell you we're like oh god she's three and she's already like i don't want to tell you three going on 16 exactly it's already kind of like we have to play like wait till she's ready to tell but like so with the dreaming and the eyes open I'm like listen if you're having bad dreams you can tell me and she's like I don't have dreams and I'm like okay okay girl like relax um okay well you know eventually it's gonna come out what's that I hope so oh I just she loves her school and she's just really happy and um I'm just it's a big relief because it was a big shift but um yeah well

thinking of you during these trying times where she apparently doesn't dream and you know at some point she's going to have maybe her own podcast so when she's like our age and then she's going to be like I had this weird thing about not being able to dream I still have never told my mom about it

and you'll hear it in the car like our mom's hear it I will finally listen to it and get the story you're right eventually it will come out you're right there's no way around it I know it

she's going to have to blab I know it I know it or it's going to become a thing we're like around the Christmas dinner table all of the family He's like making fun of her for like not ever opening her eyes or closing her eyes. But it'll be a bit at some point. Don't worry.

It'll be a bit. I think I've already made it a bit on this podcast. So yeah. I mean, talk about a really good Halloween costume dressing up as a toddler who just. I sleep with my eyes open. Like what? I sleep with my eyes.

Like who says that at age three? I mean, whatever. I guess my child. For all you know, it's from like a TV show or something. I know. And I'm like,

I wish I could just kind of like figure it out, but she does not want me to know. So I'm like, okay whatever well i'm happy that she doesn't dream and had a good school day um yes and doesn't nap at all no no no no not in the restroom funcle ms takes a nap though so yeah so do i hell no one day she'll understand how much a nap is worth it um one day when she's a podcaster start. Hello, everybody.

Doing a quick little survey and scanning the crowd, please raise your hand if you have ever dealt with any discomfort. Pff, me. Raise your hand if you've ever dealt with any sleeplessness. Bing, bing, I went to bed when the sun rose.

Raise your hand also. Last question. If you've ever dealt with stress or anxiety, Bing, Bing, bing, a thousand times, me, me, me. If you are also a victim of one, two, or all three of these things, you know what you could use? A little cornbread. hemp CBD gummy. I'm telling you, listen, they are formulated to help relief discomfort, boom,

sleeplessness, boom, stress, boom, and cornbread hemp CBD gummies are made to help you feel better. So just in general. So if you're just, just want to feel a little less like you're not dealing with work or you can't sleep or you're feeling a little off and maybe cornbread and gummies can help you out. They've also got great flavors. Blueberry, yum, blood orange, yum. Blood orange. Or cherry lime. Yum, yum, yum. They're all very, very good. Why don't you try all three?

See what happens. And right now, and that's why the drink listeners can save 30% on their first order, just head to cornbread hemp.com slash drink and use code drink a checkout. That's cornbread hemp.com slash drink and use code drink. I have a story for you. It is short because we, when I did these notes, I don't know where in the episode release this conference. out. But we were having technical difficulties. And so I was like, I'm just going to do a short

episode because who knows when our internet's going to crap out. So, um, anyway, I have a South African folklore for you. Oh, okay. Um, this is the Tokalosh. Do you know about the Tokalosh? I don't think so. I love how it sounds. The, I do too. It's very satisfied. Right out of the mouth. Um, yeah, that's what they say. Rules right out of the mouth. That's the first, bullet point I've got. Tokalosh rolls right out of the mouth. So in South African lore, the Tokalosh is very deeply connected to many of their communities. It is gone by many names. Some of them are just different spellings of Tokalosh. Some of his Takaloshi. One is, and sorry if I'm butching these, but I'm trying here. Healy, Mwari, Chuhura, Healy, Healy. So there's a whole

bunch of different. Oh my gosh. So this thing has all alias and a half. hundred aliases. And depending on which community or which group of people you're talking to, it's got different versions. So, oh, okay, okay, I see. Big old mess over here with a Tokalosh, but I'm going to try to get it. I tried to narrow it down to like its main meat and potatoes. To describe a Tokalosh for you, he's very, very short, like one foot tall. Oh, why did I not expect that. Yeah. Tokalosh feels a little intimidating to me. Yeah. Yeah. And then I hear it ties. Like a tall being or something. Yeah. Yeah. For some reason, Tokalosh tells me like you're from like a cave or something. Yeah. Or like in a wetlands. Yeah, it does feel like a wet. A marsh. So yes, Tokalos feels a little like damp dripping everywhere.

It does. Marshy. It rolls right out of the mouth. you said it and I thought it so Togalosh is one foot tall now rain in your comments for a second they're apparently very well endowed and please hold you'll see why

because obviously it's the first thing I want to talk about but trust me here I do I do you have your reasons I'm sure they are hairy primate monkey like gremlin elves

right just your standard just like a I tried to clump it all together some say it's a gremlin some say it's an elves some say it looks like a little monkey I don't know what to tell you

are they all have big old wangs yeah what's yeah okay that seems to be the combining factor here but so hairy little gremlin maybe that's the best we've got often they have long bony fingers I was like long bony fingers

I was like long bony what Okay And long bony bones and long bony bones And long bony fingers Gouged out eyes What? And a burn hole in its head What?

To Golosh So some sources say It can also shape shift So maybe that's why it's a gremlin elf monkey Some also say This is different versions that believe That this is more of a water spirit than anything else they say that this can become invisible when it drinks water um or actually

can become invisible by like swallowing or sucking on a stone a certain type of stone it makes them invisible whoa a lot of things going on here um yeah yeah they couldn't commit to the to the one storyline yeah it feels and i don't know if it's because like maybe with different languages right maybe like it's just being translated differently i have no idea it's like regionally different yeah it's like oh it's a monkey no it's nelf oh actually if it sucks on a stone it's invisible actually if it swallows the stone it's invisible if it swallows the stone it's probably dead if it's one foot tall if it's one foot tall um so different communities have different ways of how the toklouche is created we can all agree his huge huge ding pong that's the one thing

we can all agree on and also now that we're mentioning it like is it in proportion to his one foot tall body or is it for a six or are we not yet mentioning it we're not yet i don't know anymore i'm lost we'll get there okay i'll wait i'll wait thank you so uh different communities have different ways that the toklush is created um but the main one is that it's created by a witch or sorceress and i saw some sources saying that it's a certain type of witch called a sangoma um but then other websites that when i I looked up Sangoma said that this was more of like a healer, although I could see why witch and healer are kind of conflated with each other. But then the story here seems to be that

the witch creating a Tokalosh is usually nefarious in some way or higher for nefarious purposes. So it's like a negative thing in this context. Okay. And there were actually some Sangomas who were interviewed about Tokalosh and they even said like, I don't know how to create one because I'm not a witch. So, like, it seems like there's a bit of a divide. Yeah. So I'm just going to stick with the word witch in general, because San Goma seems to have different connotations, like you said.

So, anyway, a witch creating a Tokolosh is the most common way that this happens. Basically, this witch is hired by a local who wants to enact revenge upon someone or cause harm on someone in town. in one way or another it could be like oh I just want them to have bad luck or I want them to get sick or something like that and in one common version

the client has when the client goes to a witch and says that they want this done the price that they pay is probably monetary but on top of that they are told that this will be a soul for a soul situation so you would think

that means that they're selling their soul to create the soul the toklosh but really they have they're told that this soul will be a loved one of theirs and they don't get to pick which loved one so you like sacrifice someone you don't know who from your family or your loved ones to in order to in so is this the witch who does that or the person who's hiring the witch has to sacrifice someone in their family the person hiring the witch says I want you to make me a tokloche and the witch is like all right be prepared for like one of your loved ones to die somehow. That's dark. Yeah. And yeah, so they also don't get to pick. It's not like, oh,

well, that one person who was a loved one. It's like, it could be your kid. It could be your dad. You know, um, that's so, wow, that's intense. Yeah. So you must really fucking hate this person to do this. Um, and the story goes that the Tokulosh will pick for you what your, which loved one he'll be taking from you when he's, when he's done with all of his misdeeds. You, after that somehow that's even weirder like okay now i get my prize like oh and it's a vague amount of time because it's it could be weeks later it could be years later which uh i could see like census is a mythical creature um i i could see how if it's that wide of a range and eventually someone you love will pass away and it can be justified by the tokalo she'll be like well right

you know what i mean so it can see how that continues the story yeah yeah it ends up being like a like a confirmation bias in some way so okay let's pretend that they've made this arrangement which make me so gloch someone i know is going to die eventually the witch then finds a body so a dead body or uh it could be a symbolic body this can include actually this is a quote a corpse an animal a witch is familiar a doll or body parts sewn together to form a host. Hello? Why not just go find,

okay, first of all, wow. Yeah. Just find an animal if you're going to do that. Not to be weird, but like where are you getting all these body parts?

Yeah, or literally one of the options is a doll. Like just do it all every time. Exactly. Like, you mean my doll made of human limbs? No, not that doll.

The other doll. My Frankenstein doll. Oh. So yeah. Or I assume the more, the most common one as a corpse because that's the spookiest.

But I don't really know for sure. Body parts sewn together to form a host is such a sentence. I mean, that is like at a left field. Like, oh. So, okay, we find a body. Or we make one. Or we build one with our body. And then the witch takes a hot iron rod and burns it into the body's head, hence the burn

mark on their head. Oh, okay. And their eye sockets. hence they're gouged out eyes. And that's because part of this ritual or the symbolism behind it at least is to make this body no longer think or see for itself so that way it will be at the command of the witch.

Oh my. Okay. Then the witch sprinkles some sort of powder. I tried looking up what type of powder. I got all sorts of different answers. But some sort of powder on the body and you would think like, oh, that's to like preserve it or bring it to life or something. but apparently this is the shrinking compound that makes them one foot tall.

That's the shrinking column. You know how that goes. It's like a shrinking dink situation. We're like, okay, I see. It's like, oh, there's just some magic. Don't work chemical. Don't worry about it. Yeah, okay.

The fact that a witch could just be out there playing with shrinky dinks and instead we're doing this sole sacrifice to a doll. We could be doing like a fun little like, Honey I Shrunk the Kids moment reboot. But instead we're like gouging out. eyes? I don't know. I feel like we could have taken this a different direction. If Honey, I shrunk the kids three or four, the enemy or the villain was a Tokolosh,

just a gremlin chasing them. I mean, it feels like that's where we're headed at this point. Yeah, we cannot forget that part. Really important when we're casting. So from there, the witch commands this Tokalosh to terrorize whoever the client is seeking vengeance on, right? So some versions...

What if the powder like shunk the person? but then, like, gave them a huge wang at the same time. You know, I'm kind of curious, like, does it not work on penises or are, is the witch dodging the penis when sprinkling? And, like, does it have to have a penis or does it just get one? Like, if you, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because it's like, oh, it just said like a body or like an animal.

It didn't say, like, one with a penis. Yeah. Does my raggedy Ann have to have a big old shlaw? Exactly. Like, what do you mean a doll with a penis? What are you talking about? Yeah. You know what?

Two for one. Sex doll. a, with a penis. Yeah, a male sex doll. Is that a thing? I'm sure there's a thing. I guess, can you imagine if you gouged out the eyes of a sex doll, though? Because then it would just deflate.

Good point. Although, like, no, I'm thinking of, like, those, like, I've, unfortunately. Oh, those, like, creepy ones. I've seen, like, the, like, fully anatomically correct, like, mannequins. Right, okay, that kind of sex doll. I was thinking, like, the inflatable, like, kind of jokey kind of. Kind. Okay. I mean, that's, you're hurting no one. Do you think they had those like hundreds of years ago with them? No, I don't think they had cast molding or anything like that. Yeah. Or silicone like factories. Yeah. Um, Silicon factories.

Back then, I think during, I don't know what year this is, but if we're pretending it's the olden times, I weren't vibrators like rocks or something. So. I mean, no. They had like these crazy machines and stuff, like vibrating machine. The world's oldest vibrator. The world wants to know. Don't even play with me. I mean, I feel like it's not a rock because what do you mean? Well, the first DILDA was a rock, right?

Okay, well, that makes sense. Yeah, wow, you're right. It looks like a hairdryer or something. Yeah, they're really crazy. The polar cub electric vibrator. It's literally called a vibrator. Good for them. Proud of it.

Yeah, I know, because it was supposed to like, But it wasn't supposed to, like, get you off. It was like, oh, it like heals hysteria or something. Oh, right. Yes, that, of course. Oh, my God. It's also known, I'm so sorry, as Granville's Hammer. It was originally designed to treat muscle aches, pain, and other ailments by stimulating

nerves. Oh. Well, have you ever seen one in real life? A steam powered manipulator table massager? that's what they called it what yeah the grandville hammer or whatever it is have you ever seen one of those um a grandville hammer no have you yeah uh huh let me see mom i know you're listening what do you mean the car my mom and i when i was way too young decided to go on a mommy kid date to the museum of sex oh my god and we learned a lot about each other that that day

We learned a lot about others. We learned a lot about Granville Hammers. There was a whole room of them. I was, like, in high school. So it wasn't super creepy, but it was... Oh, okay, okay. It was still, like, uncomfortable, because it's, like, your... Police didn't need to be called, but it was, like, a really good, probably script for

arrested development or something. Like, there was... Right. I get you. Yeah. But that's where I saw the big old mannequin, uh, with his own hammer, if you will. Oh, oh, I see. Okay. Anyway.

Wow. of sex in New York, everyone, if you really want a weird date with your mom. Yeah. Tide out of ten. The gift shop is incredible. I'll tell you that. Yeah, I imagine. There's no more to say on my end.

I feel like you've said it all that needs to be said. Someone needed to go to the Museum of Sex with their mom, and I apparently volunteer his tribute. So if anyone needs a review, I'll throw it on over to you. Yeah. I did it for the plot already. You know, I love doing it for the plot. I'd do it again for the plot. And actually, things would be different now, because back then I was a, of a,

16-year-old dude claims on like boys now like yeah yikes i can give a real opinion um where are we is that where you realized it you were like oh never mind no but i i there actually was a whole floor based on um homosexuality in nature fun fact so that was your mom like we are not going on that floor that actually would have been a really funny way to come out to my mom in hindsight i should have done it that way it's just that would have been pretty good like and there's another right here uh-huh Oh, should I just stand behind this last case? Would that help?

A lion? They had videos everywhere of gay lions. They were really... Oh, okay. That took me by surprise. Okay. Fair enough. Okay, anyway, sorry, back to this.

Okay, so the Tokalosh, wreaking havoc, big old Shlong. He, oh, the way that a witch will, I think, keep the Tokalosh docile. That's the way it was phrased me, but I'm assuming it's like, so the Tokulish doesn't like turn on her. or something but then again the whole burning of the eyes in mind it implies that it's now imprinted on you I don't totally know but to keep it

docile or I guess when she doesn't want it to go out there cause in trouble she will feed it curdled milk and she will trim the hair that hangs over its eyes as like an act of kindness so you mean it's not eyes

right over its holes hey we really full circle orifices. Orifice? Yeah. I'm not like, hey, just so you know I'm uncomfortable with that part of it. I don't know if anyone's wondering or keeping score, but for some reason, I don't really

know what it is. I can't put my finger on it, but mm-mm, not for me, this cutting the bangs in curdled milk. That's actually a great point. I didn't even, I totally forgot that it doesn't have eyes. So, like, why are you trimming its bangs so it can see? Like, it can't see. That feels like an extra fuck you, actually. It's like, if you could see, all.

All of a sudden. Sorry, I took your eyes out, but here's a nice haircut you'll never see in the mirror. Well, okay, so that is how she kind of keeps this thing at bay. She feeds a curdle milk. She gives it little haircuts. Apparently, she will also, this is some of the versions, the Tokalosh will also have sex with the witch. Although, I will say, this is probably stereotyping because, you know, witches sleep with the devil or whatever. Right, there's always that kind of implication.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't know how. true that would actually be depending on who you talk to, but that is part of the story and there you have it. So, I mean, maybe it is a sex doll after all. Yeah.

Maybe. That's, of the theories, that's nicer than I'm going to gouge its eyes out and give it spoiled milk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,

uh, now the Tokalosh has created terrorizing victims and versions range from all sorts of mischief. I mean, it could be like just prank. people to like full blown murder um mischief yeah and then you're like trading the soul of your child for this it's like okay uh so on the mischief side they will sneak into your house a night they'll make a lot of noise they'll knock over your stuff they'll steal your food they'll like

tear up your clothes um you know the usual it causes scene yeah yeah yeah it's it inconveniences you which honestly, if you ever wanted to ruin my life, just incommany. Yeah, I know how to do it. A hundred splinters, you know what I'm saying? I just, yeah. Yeah, I would find a way. At other times, they will find their victims sleeping in bed and attack them in whatever means necessary. Ew.

As a one foot little being with no eyes. Ugh. Yeah. And this is where I also, this is why I was trying to hold off on the well-endowed situation. They will attack people in whatever means necessary. Oh, no. So there's like sexual assault here with this thing too? Oh, forget about it.

I will say I did not see anything when it comes to like, like a lot of victims of Tokulosh are children, but I did not see anything about that in children. Okay, well, that's good at least. I don't. Let's hope those are just few and far between stories. Yeah. And also, not to, you know, this is somebody's culture, so I'm not trying to like poop

on it, but like it is helpful to also remember that this is a mythical creature. So yeah, right, right, right, right, right. That helps that hopefully this isn't actually happening. Like on a regular basis or anything like that, especially. Yeah. So, uh, mostly what I saw when it comes to like the Toklosch attacking kids, it was more pranky and it's also become- Who is like hiring them to attack kids?

Like, what kind of sicko? Maybe another kid. I don't know. I don't know. Oh, yeah, I guess. Also, I think a lot of kids being involved has not, a big chunk of it, I think, is more as a cautionary tale today of like, watch out or the Toklosh will get you. But when it comes to more violent graphic things, it was more directed at women, also men. But it will apparently on the more violent side beat you up.

choke you because they have those long fingers. The thing that they're most known for, which is fascinating, which I get to later, but just remember this, is that they're best known for making people sick and literally sucking the breath out of them.

Oh, God. So remember that. They've been said to leave long, nasty scratches on your back that get infected. They will feed off your negative and fearful energy to stick around longer than they should.

And because of the connection to this folklore and its superstition, the Tokalosh have been blamed for very real situations. Oh. In the 1930s, there was a man who killed his nephew because he thought that his nephew was a tokylish in disguise. Oh, geez. In the 1950s, there was actually a serial killer in the area who claimed he murdered his victims because he thought he himself was a Tokalosh.

oh dear um so there's obviously a mental illness or mental health situation going on here um in the 1990s though unfortunately and then this also 1990s for children and then also um everywhere else for it's it's not just strictly in the 1990s for adults but in the 1990s there were several kids who were being um physically abused by their family members oh god and it was told that tokalosha's were responsible and yeah that's when it gets yeah yeah so just to give you an idea too of how ingrained tokaloshes are in the community where like some people actually thought this could be like a plausible excuse to what ends up being later found out as obviously a cover-up by family members who were hurting the kids but it was it was like something they actually said and thought it would

it would get away with it you know what I mean so that's yeah that's yeah that's no i don't like that um also unfortunately many women who in real life have been sexually assaulted um and they feel like in their community they would be shamed or something a lot of them will say that they were assaulted by tokalosha's because they don't want to deal with the repercussions right right right right right right who may have really done it of reporting something yeah so even when it's uh not a crime though i just wanted to get the dark part out of the way that like toklosius have been blamed for things as well as been blamed by the victims for things and often it is to cover up a much more serious situation um even when it's

not a crime it is common to blame tokylocious for sillier things that happen uh to you or around the house so if something goes missing all the time if they go the tokolos took it thing so there really is such a gamut on how people perceive this sure, depending on where you are. Right, right, right. Many people are superstitious about even saying the name of the togalosh and fear that it welcomes them into their house at night. And like I said earlier, it's now a cautionary tale that will warn misbehaving kids to do better or else the Tokalosh will get them while they're sleeping. I've heard that it will bite your toes off while you're sleeping. Ew. Well, oh God, because that's like already a fear of like your foot being out of the

covers. Like, don't do that. I feel like that's a universal feeling of being scared. And so every parent just feeds into it with their own regional creature. Yeah. That's horrible. So how to get rid of a Tokalosh? Because once they've done their job, I guess it's like, all right, wrap it up. We don't need this guy anymore. There are a few things you can do. You can destroy, I guess it's called Moothy, but it's essentially the herbs and oils and ritual ingredients that were used to create the Tokalosh. So just destroy that. Apparently, it's often buried by the house of the victim. that like the tokylosh is yeah so like when the when the toklosh is being made then all of the ritual

stuff um is then buried next to the house where the toclish is supposed to attack okay I see by the witch by the witch so got it okay okay um in theory you can dig that up and so I wonder if you're having like a really bad week do you just start digging up your own yard wondering if someone buried something and the neighbors are like uh when will he figure out he's just kind of having a shitty week you know um So apparently that is not super possible for a lot of people. I don't totally understand the reasoning, but they said if you want to do something easier than that,

which I always want to do something easier than digging. Well, maybe it's because you can't find it. Good point. It may not be there. I don't know. They may not be there or like not to challenge the myth or whatever. But, you know, maybe it's like, oh, well, if that doesn't work, like you don't find evidence of these herbs. I don't know.

Good point. Or you just don't want to dig. or your arms are still tired A lot of people will resort to something else like using certain salts which are literally called Tokolosh salts

and they come in different colors so you know that that's fun and they'll sprinkle that near threshold so the Tokolosh can't come in any longer another thing you can do which a Sangoma Sangoma the healers they said another thing you can do

was literally surround yourself with positive people because it wards off the negative energy that the Toglish feeds off of. So I love that they're holistic way of it. It's like the power of belief and the power of kindness. Surround yourself with positivity. And one of the odds that's also the most cost effective. To me, I would like punch them in the head.

But yeah, I get it though. I do. The most common way to avoid attacks from the Tocklish though, those are some of the more, I guess if you're taking this like super seriously, then you might do all those things. but the most common thing that people do to keep Tokalush away is to raise their bed off the ground just because they're so short they're so small you're kidding me you're just be ableist is what it is just wow dang don't make it accessible your home is well i have like a little ramp for my dog so

i feel like i would have to you're fucked i'll tell you that yeah they're gonna find their way up oh no but yeah just basically the he's just a will guy and so you got a little platform bed like your bed hard to get to so it's apparently very common for beds still in like a superstitious tradition to sit on top of bricks or paint cans or risers in some way and it's just very common I guess in in these areas to elevate your bed while you sleep and if someone like me walked in was like why is everyone's bed off the ground apparently it's because of the toglosh so that's so fascinating And, like, listen, I love a lofted bed. I get it.

Yeah. In my mind, I just make yourself a bunk bed. Get rid of the ladder. Just, uh, just have a good party. Get rid of the ladder. Just, yeah, just like sim style. Just jump in a pool. Take the ladder out.

I was always jealous of the people who had that one like PBT in bunk bed where it was a, you had a desk underneath the bunk bed. Oh, the loft. Yeah. That's what I mean. The lofted with the desk under. Yeah. Oh, my God.

My dream. I thought, I, it was one of those things. If you have that in your house, you made it. You've really succeeded at being a teenager. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

So this is, oh, this is the interesting thing I wanted to tell you about that I told you to hold on to. I was, it was when I was telling you, one of the things that the Toclosch is best known for is, like, sucking the life out of you and. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Sucking the breath out of you and making you feel sick. So, I don't really know how to start this part, but it's so. interesting the another hmm how do I say this because it's god what's wrong with my brain so people now sleep on raised beds because of the Tokolosh who are best known for also sucking a life out of you and in two different ways this comes from the origins of the Tokolosh from all the way back when

Tokloch became a concept for these people. It was in Bantu, Bantu speaking areas, it was during a time when people would often sleep around a fire on cold nights, and so they'd be sleeping on the grass, on the ground, they'd all surround this fire, and it would just keep them warm.

And then mysteriously, a bunch of these people who were going to bed by campfire, they were all dead by morning. And it was just a huge mystery of like, why are all these people dying? So this led to the belief that there was a creature who was coming in at night and sucking the breath out of them. And that led to the creation of this creature, the Tokolosh, where it's like, don't sleep next to the fire on the ground or else the Tokolosh is going to get you. So you should sleep somewhere elevated so the Tokolosh can't get you. And this actually ended up saving lives because what they didn't know at the time was that people who were sleeping on the ground so close to the fire, they were giving themselves car.

carbon monoxide poisoning yes okay i've heard that before oh i didn't even clock that so the fire it's like they just stop breathing so you probably are like oh shit so it's making them sick and sucking the life out i'm sucking the breath out of wow that's so scary um because the fire would burn the oxygen around them and if they're sleeping back close to the fire it's burning away their oxygen that's so scary leaving carbon monoxide which is heavier so it's sinking to where they're sleeping on the floor um and so anyway it became it's just so interesting to me at this folklore of a creature killing you on the ground uh they were just basically they just came up with the with a different killer it's like instead of it being carbon dioxide poisoning it was the tokelosh

yeah i feel like that's so fascinating about folklore how it like intertwines with i mean that's i guess what people study when they when they study folklore it's just that's so interesting and then like i mean i imagine there are other reasons to have an elevated bed i you know things like spiders come to mind i don't know i feel like uh anywhere yeah i don't know i just i i like a bed off the ground just a case you never know yeah but i it just it was so interesting to me that like wow they accidentally like it was for the for a secondary reason but they to elevate their own bed they actually were saving themselves from now carbon dioxide poisoning like a real killer yeah And it did, one of the reasons that the Tokalosha is now so heavily ingrained in the communities

is because it has been used as a tool to inform their belief that sleeping on an elevated bed will keep you alive. And so this is a quote that this, I'll just read the whole quote. This is a fascinating example of the use of folklore to create tangible changes in the lifestyles of people. The creature ultimately resulted in a positive impact on communities who believed in it. It has saved people from becoming ill and has prevented deaths as well as indirectly educated children about the potential dangers of sleeping too close to a fire indoors. That's incredible. So, anyway, I thought that was a cool way to end it.

I mean, obviously, it has its downsides with the, like, that's really fascinating. Like, it's so fascinating. Anyway, that's the Tokoloche. Wow, good story. Thank you. I heard a story last night that maybe you can cover at some point. I was listening to Spooked with Glenn Washington, and there was a story about, you know, these

creatures that had that were like lights that were meant to distract you while you were in the woods like on a path or whatever so for a minute when you said to golish I was like oh god if that's what I heard about last night I'm going to freak out and I'm never going to look at a tree

again I'm writing it down right now creatures that are lights to distract you in the woods they like are sort of like meant to like spin you around or get you lost or like disorient you disappear yeah And so people have said like, oh, people disappear. I believe it was in India and I need to figure out exactly what part because it was a specific part, I think. But yeah, it was really, really creepy because this guy told a story of like his grandfather experiencing them, the lights. And like, ooh, it's just like chilling.

That's awesome. Okay, I will check that out for sure. Yes, it is worth it is worth looking at. Because I was for a minute really scared you were going to start talking about that. And then I was like, what does it mean? What does it mean? And then I think that's probably why I thought they were tall because those creatures were tall. And I was like, ah, help.

It's so funny that the sound of something can feel the same in both our brains. Because I really, I think of like a tall, like branchy looking tall. Like in the marsh. Yeah. With the Togalosh, you know. Interesting. Something about that. Oh, oh, here we are.

Fire creature. Oh, so it's in the Himalayas. when you're lost in the okay they don't say the name of it but it's called fire creature the episode of Spooked Okay Cool fire creature but yeah

It's supposed to like But it has a light like on its forehead And so when you said like Oh they branded They put a thing in its forehead I was like no not the light in the forehead Fire creature Different thing I guess

Cool thank you What a tail Mint Mobile has been putting not just my minded ease, but Christine's man at ease. When we were on tour, it was there for us. On stage, it was there for us live before your very eyes. Mint Mobile has been helping us in every which way. And right now, they have the best deal of the year that's ending soon.

It's 50% off unlimited premium wireless for new customers. All Mint Mobile plans also come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. There's nothing I love more than talking. In fact, I was a recreational yapper so often and so well that I decided to make it mind. profession. If you would like to talk as much as me, you're going to need this unlimited talking pecks. Let me tell you now. Also with MintMobil, you stop overspending with big wireless and you can cut your wireless bill to $15 a month when you switch. If there's anything I love more than Yapp and it's overspending, but it's on things I want, like treats and chotchkes,

you know? So that could be you. You just got to move over to Mittmobile. Just don't miss out on three months of unlimited premium wireless for Mittmobile for $15 a month, but you have to hurry because this deal ends September 22nd. Hutt. do it. Quit stalling and start saving when you make the switch. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash ATWWD. That's mintmobile.com slash ATWWD. Up front payment of $45 required equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan, taxes and fees. Extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Welcome. This is where I tell you about the yumiest things I've eaten this week. You ready? Three meals in a row. I'm just going to hit you with them.

Boom. Mozilla-crested chicken? What? Steak and potatoes can't, I mean, can't beat the OG, right? Winner, winner chicken orzo dinner? You too can eat like that. With Hello Fresh, Fall is here. There's nothing I love more than a hearty meal.

It doesn't matter what time of year it is, but especially when it's cool and cozy. Oh, God, a hearty meal really gets me going. And that's where Hello Fresh comes in because they bring you comforting, chef-designed recipes and fresh seasonal ingredients right to your door. and HelloFresh, this is probably my favorite news they've ever announced, is that they've doubled their menu. So you can now choose from a hundred options each week. A hundred.

That's one less than Dalmatians people. You can dig into bigger portions that'll keep everyone satisfied. And you can feel great with an even healthier menu too because they've got options that are filled with high protein and they're veggie packed. And they feel very fresh. No? Green? Maybe. Yes.

I'm telling you, HelloFresh has never let me down. The best way to cook, just got better. Go to hellofresh.com slash drink 10 FM now to get 10 free meals plus a free item per life. That's one per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. Hellofresh.com slash drink 1.0 FM to get 10 free meals and a free item per life.

All righty. So the story I have for you today is also pretty short, and it's unfortunately not because it's like any easier to listen to or an easier pill to swallow. It's just that unfortunately it wasn't really covered that extensively. And I don't know if I, if you remember, but a few months ago, I was probably like a year ago now, but Sersha and I found this thread on Reddit, or I found it in sent it to Sersha. and we've been kind of going back and forth and seeing similar threads of like cases that stick with people that haven't been as recognizable to other people, you know, that are like kind of under the radar haven't been given like enough of as much coverage as other cases have. And so I've done a few of those, quite a lot, I think, because they're all very compelling in that like, nobody knows about this, you know. this one is one from one of these threads it's the story of lorry on elise page and um i know we don't necessarily do like trigger warning this is a child though um and so i do like to say that up front

um and we'll get into that she's a 12 year old girl she was born in 2011 her mother's name was miranda white and her father is Andrew wiley she was a very studious girl she was the it's just this story is just very it's just a rough one um she was the kind of kid that being on time for her for school as an example being on time was so important that she would run from class to class to be like in her seat by the time the bell rang nerd I know like total nerd she had really good grades she worked really hard um she even like helped other kids with their homework when they were struggling and her teachers of course like took great notice of this she was very well liked by everybody at school and got along with her classmates um had i guess other

nerdy friends like me back then um so she got along with her teachers and classmates and was well liked but there were a couple instances that i don't would i wouldn't say like stand out necessarily it's just the context of this story that like i guess it gives you a little more insight into her sure uh but she was a child so i don't know she she basically had to be be moved to another classroom one time after developing a crush on a teacher and she left him a note which read something like do you like me circle yes or no and like it's just makes me sad that that's even reported you know because it's like that's just it was just like a 12 year old crush like a little kid no and apparently she was so embarrassed when they like brought the note up and she said she didn't

write it and it's like we've all been there man um in other words like any sort of trouble quote unquote because like let me just give you a little bit of a preface here some spoiler alert there's a lot of like runaway talk right and and there are some runaway instances that are going to happen but I just kind of we wanted to give you that back story to just say like she was a normal kid it wasn't like oh she had like a behavioral disorder and had the and like hated being at school you know do people use that story about like the do you like me as like a reason why she ran away like she was embarrassed no no no no no no I that That was more just like an example of this is the only kind of trouble she ever got into.

Like not real trouble, just like being a little kid and, you know, being a kid. She's a kid. She's just a kid. She's just a kid. So that was just kind of a background into her. At school, you know, she, other than this little instance, she thrived. But at home, it was a different story. We don't know much about Lori's early childhood. She initially lived with her mother, Miranda, in Tennessee. And as a young child, she was in the custody of the Department of Children and Families. But then when she was older, she did run away from home once. But, and this is like, again, this goes to show.

Like, she didn't like to miss school. So she didn't go very far. And then she came back because she wanted to go to school and didn't want to have absences on her report. I mean, it's like, a little kid. Oh, I know. If Lori had any contact with her father at this time, it was very little when she was living up there in Tennessee. And according to Andrew, he did at one point live with Lori in Miami when she was five years old, but they, after age five, she really didn't have any contact until 2022 when Lori is 11 years old and she travels from Tennessee to Florida to visit her dad. then her mother says you can't come home oh shit okay like essentially i'm not taking her back in

you need to watch her and like i don't know too much of the context she she just said i don't want custody anymore i don't know if she was going through some sort of yeah sounds like it i i don't know the context i really don't but we do know that she basically said okay i want your father to now take custody of you. And so she moved in with her dad in Tallahassee. And he enrolled her in Griffin Middle School's sixth grade class. I mean, being in sixth grade is already so hard. Like, it just breaks my heart. And as usual, she decided to pour herself into her schoolwork. Once, for example, some of Lori's classmates failed a difficult test in civics class and students were allowed to do a poster board project on the Bill of Rights to, like, raise their

grade and she did it even though she got an A on the test. She was that kid that we were all like, of course, you did the bonus work without even needing the points. She was the kid who asked about homework at the end of every class. She was a kid I was friends with but could never be like, she was the girl. I was like, no, please, please don't. Don't say it. Don't raise your hand. Oh my God, asking about homework. But that was like her, that's just a good kid. Yeah. She's just a good kid. And in six grade. Like you're so little at that age. Her teacher Margie Summers called so she did this project and her teacher said it was a work of art. Like she put so much work into this and she didn't even care that she couldn't do better than an A. She just wanted to

participate. She just wants to learn. She wants to learn. Her teacher suspected that she tried so hard in school because she didn't get very much attention at home and didn't like have much of a life outside of school. And although the adults in her life never knew much about her home life, they did know that she was very unhappy. Lori talked to her friends about being unhappy and lonely living at her dad's house. And then in May of 2022, she ran away again, this time from her dad's house in Tallahassee. And she hid out at an apartment complex near the pool. And her friends would bring her food because they knew where she was staying. Yeah. Her teacher, Margie, said that this time they found her at school. She didn't want to miss class if she showed up barefoot.

like during her runaway period it's just like like what uh i mean first of all so sad but also uh what a juxtaposition to throw out a big word of like what a good kid who's also a runaway but then it yeah it really makes you wonder like well why is the kid running away like obviously this is a good exactly like kids aren't running away from from safety are usually happy, health, safe homes. I mean, I wouldn't say always necessarily, but I feel most of the time, yeah, that gets overlooked and then they're kids.

I mean, whatever. So the school had to contact Andrew, her dad, and Lori was returned home. So that was in May of 2022. At the end of the month, end of May, Miranda, her mother, called the Tallahassee police and requested a welfare check on Lori at Andrew's house. it's unclear how thorough the check-in was, but Lori remained in her home with Andrew.

And at home, Lori was super isolated. She didn't have a phone. She didn't use any social media. So she couldn't even, like, talk to her friends. And this is 2022. Like, this isn't, you know, years ago where you, as a teenager, like, or preteen wouldn't have access. It's like now, it's like current day.

And so it does feel hard that, like, a sixth grader has no connection to her friends outside of school. And it makes you just think No wonder she liked being there And having her relationships there So she spent a lot of time alone On the computer at her dad's house She would watch YouTube videos and play Roblox

Her dad worked nights as a correctional officer And so she was mostly unsupervised Like she just was there by herself And they did have a neighbor named Terry Smith And he used to look out for Lori Because he had kids himself And this was like a pretty safe and quiet cul-de-sac neighborhood and it was pretty far out of the way from the main street and so terry would

like notice that lorry was just there alone all the time and so you know he would just make sure she was okay he would just keep an eye on her and he started to notice that she was always wearing baggy clothes she was never with other children and she seemed uncomfortable just even being there like even existing in this neighborhood in early june which was a week after her mother miranda requested this welfare check school was out for the summer and lorry had finished the sixth grade as an honor roll student the only one in her math class to earn the top score on the state end of the year exam and on the morning of june third andrew came home from work to find his apartment empty and his daughter missing oh shit he called the police he reported her missing he told police nothing seemed out of the

ordinary when he left her work on the evening of june second he said lorry's backpack was missing and she must have left home sometime overnight when he was at work. So Tallahassee PD posted a missing person's flyer to its Facebook page, including a photo of Lori who was described as a five-foot-tall, dark-skinned black female with shoulder-length black dreadlocks, and people started sharing the post. Although the Tallahassee PD said it would exhaust all options, that feels kind of like mumbo-jumbo,

the special victims unit detective leading the case said they didn't suspect any foul play. and she said everything is pointing to that she ran away voluntarily. So Detective Anna Drake urged any friends, and it is fair, I will say, like, if she has run away before, especially from this home, yes, I can understand that, like, you'd think, well, most likely, not most easiest, or the most easiest, the easiest explanation is that she ran away again. And it's summertime, you know, like no school. She got bored at home, you know, something. Right, right. It makes sense. away. So Detective Anna Drake urged any friends who might be helping Lori like they did with the food at the apartment complex to step forward and say like, hey, we know where she is. She also stated that any adults who might be helping Lori hide would be committing a crime and they should return Lori home immediately. So authorities told Lori's school to send missing person flyers home to all of Lori's classmates' parents. Basically like if the idea being if she's staying with a friend and she said, oh, my dad's totally fine with it.

And they didn't know, you know, that he had no clue where she was. But despite giving all these flyers out, nobody reported a single sighting of Lori after days. Miranda did not believe her daughter would run away for so long. And she started to get really frustrated and ask for more intervention and action from the police. And Lori's teachers stepped in as well and said, we agree that something is wrong. because 12 days after Lori disappeared, Margie Summers, the teacher from her school, reached out to a local pastor named Rudy Ferguson, and Rudy had never met Lori, but he was a member of the community and he felt like he had an obligation to her. So the two of them worked together,

this teacher and this pastor, too, from her neighborhood, from her area, to raise awareness about Lori and her disappearance, sort of more like grassroots, you know, like we see in a lot of these cases. So they worked with radio host Patty Wilson to get Lori's name out there, get her story on air. And then 14 days after Lori disappeared, Margie and Rudy went on camera for the local news. Rudy said he sent Lori's missing person flyers to more than 20 pastors in the front line pastor's action council, which the F-pack. I don't know what in the world. Counsel. He said it was their church's responsibility to be a voice in their communities. So of Lori, he said we ought to be her family. We ought to look for her consistently until she is safe and sound. And I just love

that because he'd never met this girl. He just was like, this person matters and we need to find her. Margie said that she hoped Lori would return to school. And there was summer school in session and they began opening the doors Monday through Thursday for summer school. So they thought, oh, like surely she'll come in on a Monday. Right. Because she's safe here and she knows she can trust the teachers and we will take care of her, whatever. But no, she never, she never showed. Margie remained worried that something had happened because it was unlike her to be gone for so long. But in case she was listening, when on air, she said, Lori, you're a great student and a great kid.

There is nothing that you haven't done well enough. Just come back. Oh, God. It just breaks my fucking heart. And so the community is demanding more action. from authorities in the search for Lori, especially as like this grassroots campaign is kind of the only thing like getting the name

out there. And detectives explained some of the hurdles they were facing in the case. And this is also like a really good point. Remember I said she didn't have any social media. Right. And like I guess detectives, which of course, but we don't often cover stories from like

right now or you know a couple years ago. And so it's interesting to hear like authorities said, hey it's really hard to find a 12-year-old kid who doesn't use any social media, you know. And so they did actually discover she had made like kind of secret accounts, like on Reddit and stuff, but she never used them and then would just delete them. So they didn't offer any sort of clue.

It wasn't like she was communicating with a friend or, you know, with some cases you hear like, oh, they made a friend online and like didn't tell their parents, but there was nothing like that. There was no presence. She had no online presence at all. And so, and no phone. So it's like, how on earth are we going to figure out where she? she went. So detectives went to Lori's family to get more answers. Lori had been estranged from a lot of her family because her parents both had strained relationships with their families. So her extended

family was like not in very much contact with her. So her grandma or great-grandfather were like, we really don't know what to do. We don't know where she could be. Rumors went around that Lori's mom might have taken her back without telling anyone or like maybe secretly relocated her. But there was no evidence of this and even after a detective subpoenaed all of Miranda's social media accounts they found nothing to indicate she had done anything wrong um she did post and send messages about Lori's disappearance but it was just you know trying to find her daughter it wasn't anything um suspicious Miranda provided two Gmail accounts that belonged to Lori and uh Google provided email records for those and found that Lori exclusively communicated with her mom so like

she didn't even email with friends. Like she just used them to talk to her mom. And after her disappearance, there was not a single communication from her email. Oh, shit. Okay. That's got to be a red flag. So some of Lori's family members said that Lori had felt neglected and unloved by her mother,

which was why she might have run away in the past. And then some of Lori's classmates said, well, her life with her dad wasn't much better. One classmate said that Andrew often hit his daughter. And once he yelled at Lori and beat her with a belt at that. the school bus stop in front of the other children. I would run away. Like, humiliating.

I mean, it's fucking evil. It's abuse. It's. Which if that's what he's, if that's something he's not afraid to do in public, publicly, what the hell's going on in the house?

Every time I hear something like that, I'm like, you know that's just a surface. Like that you don't behave that way in public and then not worse. Yeah. Behind closed doors. I totally agree. Um,

I hadn't even thought of that. Oh, that just gave me shit. So that is what the kids are telling the police, like, hey, she's not having, like, maybe she ran away from her mom in the past, but, like, her dad's, her experience that her dad's is no, is not much better. And the thing about the bus stop is just, like, so, so fucking dark. Some of Lori's family members said she had experienced severe depression, feelings of worthlessness. She may have been capable of self-harm. And so, of course, they're hearing that, and they're thinking, well, now we have another angle to look at, you know, could she have been suicidal?

And a social worker who once worked with Lori would later confirm that Lori had experienced suicidal thoughts and that she had described herself, this is whole heartbreaking, she's 12 years old, she had described herself using words like evil, disrespectful, and hateful, which is like you repeat that from what you hear, you know what I mean? 100%. That's just so to describe yourself. Like that's your self-talk is a 12 year old? And also, I mean, so, I mean, I don't know, obviously.

but if you add that level of self-esteem, that lack of self-esteem, yeah, on top of like your mom literally just saying, I don't want you. And I don't know, like, did she have friends at school? It sounds like she was kind of, she kept to herself for the most part. No, she had friends at school.

She was in, she was definitely, like, had solid and strong relationships at school, which is why she would always end up at school and try to avoid being home. um so that really was the only place that she had like a community but she did she did have um a community at school and so it's just hard because it's like and then she got cut off from the from that community at home yeah and like your mom not wanting you and your dad never being home i mean yeah i want a cliff ride too i don't know that like the mom didn't want her i just i just know

like hey she gave custody fully to the dad to say oh right something might have been going unable to do custody i don't know i don't know um i just don't know more details on that um so i i i don't know that specifically but yeah i mean it has to be hard like you've either way you've uprooted your life you've moved to a new school and you're trying your best to like regain some footing and your dad's clearly harming you abusing you're you're lonely i mean it's just like a recipe for disaster so she would use these words um a social work told detectives that she would use words like evil, disrespectful, hateful to describe herself. And of course, none of her teachers or friends or classmates would ever use those words.

So there was like a little bit of dissonance there. Detectives continued to consider Lori a runaway kind of now saying, okay, well, this is clearly an abusive home. And she ran away from an abusive home. And that's why she ran away, which also I feel like is a fair assessment of the situation because it's happened in the past. But months passed, and Margie Summers continued to champion the search for Lori, and she felt that Lori wasn't getting the attention she deserved. It's like a 12-year-old girl, she's still missing, and she's like, we got to find her.

Lori's mother was also angry that police didn't start doing grid searches or using dogs until months and even years after Lori disappeared. Rudy, Margie teachers, and other members of the community organized searches, they did door-to-door canvases, just a lot more. of that grassroots kind of searching. And Margie continued to talk to the media to get Lori's name out there. In one interview, she said, Lori's not going to disappear and doesn't matter. It matters to us. She's not going to disappear and us not do anything. So one year after Lori disappeared, the Tallahassee Police Department told local reporters

that they no longer used the word runaway on missing person flyers due to concerns that it would make community members less likely to take disappearances seriously. And I'm like, thank God, okay. Hadn't even thought about that. But yeah, if you hear Runaway, part of you things, well, they wanted to leave. So why go looking for them or something? Yeah, yeah, runaway. And it's like, well, they're probably just with a friend.

Like, I feel like my implication of Runaway is like they took a backpack and went somewhere and they're just hiding out, you know? And of course, like, they're still kids so they should still be accounted for. And but the wording like skews your perception of it, I think, like in a way. It, like, makes it seem less serious, even though it's still a minor who's missing, whether they ran away or not. And so, anyway, I just found that really interesting. And one year after Lori disappeared would have been 2023. So that's a pretty recent development. So they decided that, you know, the designation was not, not only was it potentially harmful to the recovery process of missing persons.

It was also not significant. It didn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter whether they ran away. we need to find them. So detectives continued to urge anyone with information to come forward to help find Lori. And then in January, 2004, Miranda, Lori's mom, posted to Facebook, My Baby is Gone, Broken Heart emoji. Oh, my God. She deleted it quickly.

And when asked about the post, she said she felt in her soul that Lori was dead. Oh. And Lori had been missing for about a year and a half now. Police continued to canvas the neighborhood. they spoke to registered sex offenders in the area and they just couldn't find any sort of lead as who could have been involved in her disappearance, especially now that it's been a year and a half

and there have been no activity on her email, there's been nothing. And so, you know, things are not looking good. During the investigation, Andrew moved to Thomasville, Georgia, that's her dad, 45 minutes north of Tallahassee. And detectives asked him whether there was anyone in his neighborhood back in Tallahassee, that he thought might have harmed Lori.

Like, is there anyone suspicious that knew she would be home alone, you know? Yeah, to be overlooked that Terry guy or something. Right, exactly. Like, that feels like something important. And Andrew couldn't really think of anyone. And this is also really sad. They asked, like, oh, where would she hang out or, like, who are her friends? And he was like, I have no idea.

Like, you know, he'd have no fucking clue. Yeah. Where she wanted to go, where she liked to hang out. He didn't really know anything about her at all. And it's just really heartbreaking. So now we're all the way in February of 2000. A 5-mile grid search of the area where Lori was last seen created no leads. So police searched the area with cadaver dogs and divers, search nearby bodies of water.

Nothing, nothing. The FBI and the Tallahassee Police Department then began a billboard campaign advertising a $15,000 reward in the search for Lori. Then we're in late February, 24. Tallahassee Police worked with the Thomasville authorities. Thomasville is where Andrew moved 45 minutes north or 45 miles, 45 minutes north of Tallahassee. And so Tallahassee police reached out to Thomasville Police and they executed a search warrant at Andrew's house. They also seized and processed Andrew's vehicle and they found blood on the carpet. Oh, okay. Wow.

The blood was confirmed in laboratory testing to belong. to his daughter, Lori. They also found a handgun in the vehicle and a spray bottle containing a cleaner with a label that advertised its specific ability to clean and remove blood. And. Why did he still have that in his car?

Yeah. First of all. Not to make light of this, but like rookie mistake. Like, why the fuck are you leaving that in your car? You got this far and you're going to, that's what you're going to get busted on? how stupid can people be i mean that's just sick so they did confirm it was her blood and clearly he had bought specific blood removing cleaning supplies they of course then seized his

electronic devices and some of the devices had been wiped clean or even dismantled and he'd recently replaced his computer and they couldn't find it uh anywhere so on the devices that they were able to recover thankfully investigators found that on June 1st, 2022, two days before Andrew reported Lori missing, two days before he reported or missing, he searched online, quote, Bad Neighborhood, Tallahassee, Florida. Of course. Appalachicola National Forest's dead body. And where do police look to find missing kids?

Jesus Christ. Guilty as sin. Oh, my God. Guilty as fucking sin. he also visited a Quora page, which is like that kind of wiki-how adjacent, like, you, like, ask questions on Quora. And a user asked, why would police stop looking for a missing child saying the delay of the search is based on where they are in the investigation, comma, wouldn't they still need to find the child? Like, I don't even quite know what that means. Me either, but also, like, what a specific, like.

Exactly. So specific, and yet I don't understand it all. It's like, that's damning. I don't even know what it means, but it sounds damning. Yeah. So Andrew also searched for driving directions to several bodies of water in Georgia and Alabama. And then detectives were able to thankfully use pings on cellular towers. And they were able to track Andrew's phone on the date, like his movements on the day of June 2nd, 2022.

He had traveled to a rural wooded area in Thomas County, Georgia on a plantation where people went to hunt quail. And that same day, hmm, weird. purchased a one-way ticket from Florida to Puerto Rico. Girl. Come on. As I know, as if he intended to leave the country. But police, he didn't, obviously. He moved 45 minutes north. But anyway, okay, that same day, he purchased a ticket. Police searched that wooded area in Georgia extensively with cadaver dogs, but they found nothing. But in April, there was a prescribed burn of the area for ecological management. Like they intentionally, set a controlled blaze to yeah so after uh this kind of monitored burn the fire cleared the brush in

the area and revealed human skeletal remains and yeah finally they were able to locate the body of lorry page it was april 11 2004 police reported that lorry's remains were discovered within 30 meters or 98 feet approximately of where Andrew's cell phone pinged on June in June of 2022. So, obviously it's fucking him. He's arrested. He's charged with second degree murder in connection with Lori's death.

But before he could stand trial, he died in June 2025, like a couple months ago, of a pulmonary embolism at only 36 years old. Damn. Yeah. I guess so.

And Andrew's brother, I don't know how pulmonary embolisms work, but Andrew's brother said that he maintained his innocence to his death. Um, Margie, the teacher was in shock, of course, when she found out Lori had passed. She said, I still just think she's alive and I want to go find her. Yeah. And then she said the words Lori and remains just don't go together at all.

Yeah. That's just shattering. Um, Rudy Ferguson, the pastor who had like spearheaded the effort to find her, had held on to hope that she'd be discovered somewhere unexpected, uh, safe and sound. But of course, the truth was so much worse. They did hold a memorial service to honor her life. And Rudy said, we want to make sure that her memory doesn't stay there in the woods. That can't be her resting and last place.

More than a hundred adults and children gathered to remember Lori, which just like, speaking of juxtaposing, you know, that against her, like, empty email account, no, like social media. Like only texting her mom. Yeah, it just, yeah, it's just really, it's just really poignant and, and hard. so her mother who remained very private throughout the search did not attend but she sent a statement to be read by one of the memorial organizers and the statement said we honor Lori by carrying forward her light choosing compassion over despair and holding each other with the same warmth that she gave to us so freely and I was like damn this it's like you hear of just like such a beautiful sensitive like soul you know who just wanted to do good and just wanted to like be around community and just wanted to work hard and it's like the ultimate just slap in the face by the universe you know it just feels like existential dread i don't know man um anyway so we never because he uh always claimed in a sense we don't we have no reason for why he even did it allegedly no i just allegedly yeah it's he was arrested for it died before being put on trial so i guess innocent until proven guilty um it just sure doesn't

good and he was an abuser so it's like who knows why i don't think that we could probably ever find a real reason um it sounds like she was already he was already beating her you know harming her physically yeah she's sick anyway um so that's my day my way to ruin your day and my own day oh ruined thanks yeah thanks everybody for listening uh to another episode of and that's why we drink. Sorry to bum you out. I will continue to bring up uncomfortable topics in our yappy hour as I show you really, really haunted photos of dead people.

I'm excited to try to figure out a crime or ooh and ah, whichever you prefer. Okay, great. Figure out a crime. Figure out just who they are. I was like, I don't think I'm going to be offering that as a possibility. If I do figure out a crime about them, that would be juicy. I was going to say that's a really high expectation of the random batch of photos I have. but you never know you never know there is a photo somewhere of someone who's involved in a crime

a mystery and that and i and i could be the lead detective on that starting today we'll find out and you've always said that i've always said that and that's why we drink